e e e e e e e [Music] [Music] welcome to City Hall and good  evening Witchita we'll call this   meeting to order at this time with us this  evening is Reverend Ben Staley of Chapel   Hill United Methodist Church to provide  our invocation following that invocation   we will have the Pledge of Allegiance  and we ask that you please stand for both let's let's pray together Lord in  this season of Thanksgiving we're thankful   for all that you've given to us family and  friends and neighbors who give to themselves   and support one another we're thankful that in  our community we have people who serve us through   schools colleges churches hospitals Community  Leaders with servant Hearts you've blessed us   with resources for this day this time and for the  future we know Lord that to whom much has given   much shall be required so help us to share what  you've given us with wisdom and kindness to be   good stewards and generous in our give giving and  also in our demands keep us in a place that God   will bless as we strive to follow Christ's example  of sacrifice and love in whose name we pray amen flag the United States of America stand indivisible andice all thank you very much Pastor really appreciate  you giving our invocation this evening Madame   clerk can you please call the first item  approve the minutes of the regular meeting   dated November 5th 2024 are there any changes  or corrections to the November 5th meeting I   see none I move to approve the minutes of the  regular meeting of November 5th 2024 second   second Motion in a second any further discussion  I see none Madame clerk please open the role I sorry I'm recognizing that vice  mayor Maggie Ballard is joining   us virtually today so her voice is what just came through motion passes 70 Madame clerk  please call the next item Awards and proclamations may I please invite council  member M Becky Tuttle to the front and the   recipients and organizations that will  be receiving the best tasting award good evening my name my name is Jim Jackson I'm  here to represent the Kansas section American   Waterworks Association uh each at the end  of August each each year we have our annual   conference and one of the things we kind of do  different in our conference is we have different   competitions uh you know we want to recognize  the the utility employees that been doing doing   work throughout the throughout the year so one  of one of the events we have a back Rodeo uh you   know test operator skills you know on a backhoe  we have a meter Madness see how fast people can   uh assemble a meter and make sure it works uh you  know once it's done we do that with hydrant also   hydrant hysteria we also have a thing called top  Ops so we have the water water operators it's kind   of a like a highq competition and and they answer  the questions and and we award award a winner that   way uh all all our different Awards you know they  they're you know pick chosen you know Won Won that   award at the section level but every one of them  they're able to go on to our national conference   uh this next year it'll be in Denver uh one of the  awards it's it's always been one of my favorites   is is the water taste test Award with the water  taste test award it's not just you know one or   two people it's usually a whole team of people  you know that that work to make that water what   it is uh with that you know there's a select panel  uh you know just pick different people throughout   uh usually we have some of our dignitaries from  awwa from the national level that come in uh there   there are some of them so usually it's people  that don't be not normally drinking the water in   Kansas but with that you know they're they're gone  through and they they keep selecting they score   and uh at the end we we make that determination of  who had the highest score uh and and they are the   winners H and this year it was the city of witto  and I'd like to present them with with their award tonight thank my name is Michael Jacobs I'm the  Water Production senior division manager   and with me are representatives of the Water  Production staff the Water Production division   is responsible for all raw water water  treatment and water quality delivered   to our customers we work with a treatment plant  that was originally constructed in the 19 1940s   a well field that was originally developed in  the 50s cheny Reservoir which was developed   in the 60s these facilities have changed over  the decades both physically and how we operate   them we operate these facilities 24 hours a  day 365 days a year we have a philosophy we   can't change everything right now but we can  make something better today in it's not one   big thing that results in high quality water it's  many many small things and paying attention and   trying to improve trying new things it's my  distinct honor to accept this award from the   American Water Works Association on behalf of the  city of witto and the Water Production staff in   recognition of the work that they do to benefit  our customers thank you very much [Applause] congratulations again congratulations to the city of wit's  water department and for their hard work   that is one of the core functions  of local government public safety   and Public Works which includes our water  sewer departments and really appreciative   of them at this time I'm going to use my  point of privilege to recognize our mayor   youth Council so at this time may I  please ask the mayor youth Council to come forward this is an organization uh that has  been in existence since mayor Carl Brewer and   I'm really grateful that these young people  in our community um the next leaders of our   community uh are serving as part of the mayor's  youth Council so I would just like all of them   to just say their first and last name and  which school they represent and again thank   you for being a participant of the mayor's  youth Council 2024 starting with the mayor herself hello I'm the current youth  mayor for our 2024 2025 session um   my name is Amaya Williams and I am a  senior at East High School and I love   to introduce all the lovely people  that help represent your community hello everyone my name is V WN  and I'm representing Witcher   High School East and I'm the public information [Applause] officer hello everyone my name is uh  Charlie Higgins and I'm a senior from cap Mount Carmel hi my name is Isabelle Alis and I'm  representing wieta Collegiate [Applause] School   hi my name is Max ssaw I'm a sophomore  witch talk legiit school and I'm the   special events [Applause] coordinator hi my name  is Mason Bailey I'm a senior at Northwest High School hi my name is Elizabeth timsa  and I represent witw Collegiate High   School where I'm a junior  and I'm also the clerk of council hi my name is sadashi San I'm a junior  at w Chuck leaded school and I am our envir   chair for this year I'm alono doelle I'm a senior at witch  toown Northwest High School and I am the youth manager hi my name is Aaron Lou  I'm a senior at wtot East High   School and I am this year's vice mayor [Applause] thank you again to our mayor's youth  Council and please give them a round of applause this is the fourth evening meeting of  the year and because these young people are in   school during our City Council meetings which  are held at on Tuesdays at 9:00 a.m. we want   to to pay special recognition to these young  people who again are serving our community   and are the next council members and mayors of  our community so thank you to the mayor's youth [Applause] Council council member hoisel thank you mayor  uh just wanted to give a special shout out to   the mayor of the youth Council um she serves  on my district Advisory Board and she is a   representative of the best District in the  city of wiah District 3 so um I appreciate   all that you guys do and all the work that  you're putting in at a young age I'm not   going to tell you what I was doing at your age  it was not being responsible like you guys I   can assure you that so I look forward to great  things happening and again special shout out to   the mayor so thank you guys ccil member council  member Johnson thanks mayor just one correction   she worked in the best District last summer  district one now she's over there in District 3 thank you council members we will  now move to public agenda where there   are five spots for five minutes  each uh city clerk can you please   call the first individual Mary Dean  Kansas Justice Advocate Incorporated good evening mayor woo and City Council Members  my name is Mary Dean and I come to you with a   deep commitment to our community and a vision  for a more Equitable and inclusive future for   all residents of witchar I would like to make  a suggestion uh for something to each of you   and that is to do a workshop for reparations  uh for witchard Hall's leadership the workshop   would be for mayor uh Lily woo the witch house  city council and Key Community stakeholders to   engage in a transformative learning opportunity  led by Robin Rue Simmons of first repair using   witch's own history uh policies and recent  initiatives as the foundation this Workshop   would eliminate uh El you know what I mean how  the city can advance Equity by understanding and   implementing the establishment of a commission to  study reparations in witch the city of witch has   taken significant steps toward fostering equity  and inclusion in recent years these efforts   includes the passage of the non-discriminatory  ordinance ndo 51- 654 which provides protections   against discrimination based on sexual orientation  gender identity race ethnicity and key identities   the James Chung first the final report published  on October 20 2 2021 has further contextualized   the Stark disparities that exist within the  city highlighting economic social and racial   inequalities finally the establishment of the  diversity inclusion and civil rights Advisory   Board signals a commitment to ensuring that  policies and programs reflect the values of   equity and justice to all residents however these  initiatives uh while meaningful must be seen not   as end points but as starting points they provide  a lens through which witch Hall's leadership can   be begin to understand reparations as a path to  address not only present inequalities but also   the enduring Legacy of past harms harms rooted  in historical racism segregation and systemic   exclusion of black communities from wealth  opportunity and power the non-discriminatory   ordinance in the o a policy Foundation the  passage of ndo 51- 654 demonstrates witcher's   recognition that policies can per perpetuate  harm if they fail to address discrimination   however for black residents discrimination  has not only been personal but also structural   redlining discriminatory lenden practices and  the inequitable access to public resources were   persuasive in wit do as they were in cities  Across the Nation the James Chung report the   James Chung final report provides critical data  about racial disparities in Witchita for example   the report highlights gaps in Economic Opportunity  Health outcomes and educational access for black   residents these gaps are not coincidental they are  the result of historical exclusions and systemic   inequalities The Advisory Board the creation  of witchard house diversity inclusion and civil   rights advisory board provides a mechanism for  marginalized communities to have a voice in City policies this board has the potential  to become a driving force in shaping a   local reparations program by partnering with  experts engaging residents and reparations   as a pass forward for witcha I have taken  up on myself to create folders for each of   you mayor woo and City Council Members with  information because of the time restraints   I don't have the opportunity to address  further I hope you will take the time to   review the documents and respond within  a reasonable time frame thank you Mary Dean who do I give these two  to give can I just walk up City budget performance measures and transparency good evening City Council Members Twilight Purity  I live in District 1 um I'm here to talk about   budget and transparency in budgeting I know  it feels like you just finished a budget right   but I also understand it's going to be coming up  again really soon so I wanted to share some of my   comments these may not all be true I mean  yes they're all true they may not all be new   um to you first of all the current measures  that are published in the Ben in the um City   budget document are benchmarks they're not true  performance measures and there benchmarking if you   look it up and I've spent some time uh Googling  this but benchmarking Compares particularly if   you do it at a city level City management level it  compares the city's performance to other similar   entities to identify areas of improvement and  frankly I'm not even sure that our benchmarks   were selected for that purpose I I I don't know  that um I don't know how the city settled even   on the benchmarks that they did what drove that  process now performance standards evaluate the   quality and effectiveness of government services  by measuring inputs outputs efficiencies and   outcomes and you understand smart goals and so  forth so I implore you as a council to insist on   the implementation of ma of performance measures  instead of benchmarking the processes and the   philosophy I guess of everything that's bringing  us to a budget crisis or budget deficit they're   not going to be the same tools that are going  to get you out of that and into a financially   productive and profitable City so please consider  that and dig into that more if you can and then   on the topic of transparency um and also it kind  of goes along with measurements but when it comes   to transparency uh to my knowledge there's  not transparency on what the city spends on   defending and settling lawsuits um now there was  a job or a contract listed and it was specific   um for Legal Services related to City excessive  force claims there was a contract for a law firm   and it was awarded to the McDonald Tinker Law  Firm so that tells me you have a contract for   a law firm to handle these specific claims but  where's the measurement on how many of those are   are where's the measurement on how much did you  spend on defending or settling and this is just   one class of claims right this was specific to  excessive force so I would like for you to dig   into measurements um ask for what we're spending  and if or at least make it public what is the city   spending on these on these lawsuits publish it in  the in the budget and the other there's another   side to this it's asset forfeiture income I didn't  see that in the budget how much income is coming   into our city from assets of our citizens  there are states who have outlawed that and   I don't know if the city can on its own but at  least there should be some transparency on that   that's what I'm asking for today that you consider  those um so I want to encourage you to be brave   be unselfish think about what's best for  the citizens and be transparent a lot of   you mentioned transparency in your speeches  when you were um elected to city council and   I would encourage bravery and encouraging  the city to be transparent thanks for your [Applause] time Madam clerk  please call the next indiv   MIT Dr Walt Chapel wits citizens  review board and the fop contract recommendations mam mayor hi Council each of  you I've known for a number of years not as   well perhaps JV but thank you for serving I'm  here to talk about a very important issue that   I'm sure all of you are con concerned about as  well and that's our Cen review board now in the   year 2000 the state legislature paid the police  foundation in Washington DC to do an analysis of   all the state including witch find out what kind  of racial profiling might be existing in our state   we made two 250,000 to an outside firm and sure  enough they found that blacks in witch and other   parts of our state are twice as likely to be  profiled and stopped three times more likely   to be arrested be searched or have a physical  altercation at the time the stop that was the year   2000 in 2005 we had a bill finally passed with  the help of Senator Donald Betts and about 200   people from wiah that took buses from St Mark's  Methodist Church up to the state capital we filled   that supreme court room the legislature finally  passed a bill that is now a criminal statute 22-   4606 through 4611 since 2005 we've had six studies  in witch stop studies analysis that I've done Dr   bur has done Police Department's done they still  verify as of this last April the same statistics   and yet 800 complaints of racial profiling  none have been sustained no one has been   held accountable and you have a review board  that's basically dysfunctional now why is that   many the people that are appointed don't  show up secondly we've had five vacancies   four still vacant one from the city manager  we have Mike and we have doton and we have   the fourth one is Maggie Ballard why are these  openings still there since April now since last   year for a whole year the board has not even been  able to hold executive session which mean no Cas   is being reviewed cases that were ready to be  reported on back in October a year ago still   haven't been able to provide any information  to the person that brought the complaint   the report you're done thank you to Dr Kevin  Henderson your appointy councilman that report   was ready in October of last year we still don't  have that report out now I and others have been   around this block for a long time we're trying  our best to make a difference but we need your   help we have to do this together we have to have  appointees who actually show up and when they come   ask questions don't just sit there and look at the  papers and don't do anything other than just be   present they need to be able to say all right how  do we hold the police department to be transparent   and accountable now we actually found time for the  chief to show up this Thursday we have tried for   a year and a half to get a new Chief to come and  talk about specific items what has he planned to   do to reduce reduce the disproportionate stops  of blacks in this community and Hispanics what   will he do to make sure that we have more  accountability we've not been able to even   discuss the Jensen Hughes report we've not been  able to look at the status of the fop contract   which is coming up in December it's all being done  behind closed doors I don't know how much you as   council members know about it but articles 13 and  14 of that contract need to be recced it doesn't   have anything to do with the employees being  able to decide their own discipline and their   own termination canas is an atwi State and I think  you need to look at that very carefully before you   approve it now I don't have much more time to  share with you my concerns but hopefully you   get the point we've got to work together we need  your appointees we need people who will show up   and actually do the job when they're there and not  just sit like a lump on the log and say well okay   I'm here but uh I don't know I don't see  anything don't want to do anything that   doesn't work we have to have some way for the  citizens of this city to work together so I   thank you for your time I appreciate it very  much if you have any questions I'll be glad   to respond to any phone call or comments  right now council member Glascock thank   you uh Mr Chapel not a question but a comment  uh my appointee I received his resignation on   Thursday November 14th and I've already submitted  a um another appointee to go through back five   days it's been five days of vacancy thank you  so much appreciate that so hopefully the others   will also be appointed I'm sorry ma'am go ahead  council member ho Heisel thank you mayor and uh   thank you Walt uh just a point of clarification  my appointee resigned in August not April and I   have had two people apply I have reached out  to both of them for additional interviews and   neither one of them has uh responded to me so  if there are anybody listening that would like   to serve on this board that lives within my  district please uh shoot me an email that is   currently the only position I have open out of  all my boards and appointees and I sure would   love to plug that hole so just making it known to  everybody um and I appreciate it thanks W thank   you Michael council member Johnson thanks mayor  um not a question uh just a point of clarification   um I recognize there's some reorganization with  the citizen review board and that's frustrating   for some but you kind of alluded to it being a  little ineffective and that I just want to push   back it was a citizen review board that found the  text message issue that we had so being able to   address that fix that and get Jansen Hughes in  came from the citizen review board that you're   saying is a little ineffective and that's just  um I just questioned that and just wanted to   clarify for those watching that it was the citizen  review board that found that issue and it led to   us addressing that so when we say that it's uh  ineffective I would push back on that well thank   you sir and what you will also recall is that this  board was formed in 2017 before that period of   time since 2005 it had been this racial profiling  Advisory Board we had people from our like DC MO   Moes Terry Moses came we had Captain Lenor many  times officers would be there every month in 2017   after Floyd's George Floyd's uh murder in un  very unfortunate circumstances the board was   taken over by the city manager in that period of  time from 2017 till now only one report has been   issued and that particular case on text message  was basically a fluke at that point Odell notice   ad do Harris noticed there was something about a  text message he wanted more about it if he hadn't   pulled that and act had a review we wouldn't know  a thing about that and neither would the rest of   the citizens of witcha at the present time no  one is able to come forward we don't even let   the person who filed the complaint come and speak  for themselves all the information is coming from   the officers and that's third hand they didn't  investigate the person giving the review to the   board doesn't know anything about what actually  happened so we need the person there at filed   the complaint that's in the Jensen Hughes report  it's in the ordinance it states in the ordinance   that we're supposed to have the person who  filed the complaint comes forward they're not   even invited well I think so that's why I'm  concerned about the effectiveness yeah but I   think you made my point it was the citizen review  board and like you said maybe an off-hand chance   but one of the members found that also another  point of clarification 2017 was Michael Brown   and Ferguson and 2020 was George Floyd thank you  sir I appreciate that both tragedies very much so   thank you any other questions ma'am all right  thank you so much appreciate your time Madame   clerk please call the next [Applause] individual  Cil strum uh Robert Leighton City Council zoning   and planning taking her house without permission  yes my name is civil strum I recited 326 North   wet I was outraged that Robert Leighton and  the Central and Metropolitan planning went   against me I was at 2919 North Richmond when  is all went in effect this is my house back then it was a nice house it was a  house for children to play and I   got my house taken illegally and  I want you all to know that was wrong and there are other houses  in my neighborhood that need to   be taken but they don't consider it that way I'm a little nervous I'm very upset I think  he's a con artist he cons people because I was   fixing up the house but I didn't have all this  money to do it and they took my Victorian tub   they took all my stuff my neighbor was talking  to somebody we didn't even get to know who he   was he came in my house took pictures without  permission I called Dave Andrew about it I   said Dave what am I supposed to do he says foul  report on it so I did I don't think anybody has   the right to tell someone to live the way they  want as long as they're paying their taxes as   long as they're being honest I don't like that  you know I almost want to leave wiah because   of this because I am not kidding my house was a  safe haven for children they're in drug infected   houses alcoholic houses and the police sometimes  would bring them over to me they say hey civil   will you take this kid in I don't want to take  him to juvenile hall I don't understand why I   didn't get any notice and then when I got a  notice I was blackmailed you better do what   we want or we're going to make you homeless again  so I ended up homeless my kid was homeless and I   don't think that's right instead of taking the  910 house they should have renovated it and I   had a grant a historical Grant but they're making  me pay for the mortgage and I don't think that's   right neither cuz was a 1910 historical landmark  Mr Spears owned it and it had an underground   basement and I'm also angry with Bowers Plumbing  these people need to know you cannot push people   around and that's what they did they pushed  me around they made me emotionally drained   mentally drained and physically drained I actually  went to uh Brandon Johnson and I told I'm sorry   city council Brandon Johnson I went to him and  I said I don't understand this so please please   help me help me get restitution for that the way  I was treated I've been there for the community   I worked at schools than Franklin Elementary  Allison and all and I even at worked at West High   that was not a good one but I was there for the  children and I expect to be treated a lot better   than what I was so I urge you guys to please  listen to my my deal this is the way the house looked and my child are all grown thank you we have one spot left for public comment if   anyone from the public would like  to speak you have five minutes well thank you mayor woo and council members I  appreciate what you're doing in service to the   community and uh uh I want to speak briefly about  the proposed uh climate action plan and mitigation   recommendations for that uh I feel that that  the the draft that has been produced contains   valuable information for people to consider and  look at um however I would say that uh I I want   to bring to your attention some some issues that  you're probably not necessarily familiar with um   and is I'm going to share with you some data and  information that relate to the world's climate   earth's climate I'll try to be very brief here I  know I got five minutes but I just want to make a   few point points for you to consider and uh I do  have data to support this with me here tonight if   you want to take a look at that um we have a lot  of evidence in the database that's been produced   and paid for by us taxpayers uh over many decades  and and that data tells us certain things that I   think relate to what your considerations may be  for this climate action plan we have ice core   records that have evidence of our past climate  history on the earth and temperature Trends and   and uh up up upward trends of temperature downward  trends of temperature the most serious one of   which was a period of time from approximately  uh 1350 ad to about 1850 ad a factor known   as the little Ice Age which was very cold and  caused the people that lived on the continent   of Greenland to leave or die um at around 8 F50  that Trend reversed and things did warm up we're   in a warming Trend that has been continuing since  that time um and there are a lot of things that   have been identified because of that uh we  have actual temperature records since about   1750 when thermometers were produced um that give  us other evidence to consider we have temperature   records from satellites from weather balloons and  other devices that also give supporting evidence   to what's going on in current trends uh we have  Kansas precipitation records that we can consider   and take a look at uh which have shown a slight  upward Trend in precipitation since about 1895   in Kansas uh we have sea level records from around  the globe from hundreds of stations that that give   us tide gauge reports some as early as 1850 and  that also tells us some things about what what is   going on in our climate um I can just say that the  ice the sea level records show us that the Earth   is a very very Dynamic place it's under continuous  tra change with earthquakes with volcanoes and all   kinds of other natural phenomena which are not  necessarily at all related to climate change   they're just there and we don't know exactly  why all those phenomena occur uh we have severe   weather records uh and and a couple of the things  that we really pay close attention to are factors   such as hurricanes uh around the globe and we  can see that from uh about 1981 to the present   day uh which we we see a downward trend for  all hurricane hurricanes and and mass since   that time and but we see a relatively flat trend  for the very strongest hurricanes around the globe   but it is nowhere in an upward Trend despite  what the media might try to get you to believe   uh we've had weak Tor tornado Trends since  1950 that show an upward trend from 1950 to   2005 but trending downward since then uh trends  for strong tornadoes ef2 to3 of slightly upward   from 1950 to 74 but downward since 1974 and  the final the most dramatic violent 45 EF5   4 five tornadoes have been virtually flat over  the entire 75 year time frame that we've been   looking at that so uh we we have opportunities  to study the real data that does matter and and   we I think need to be very careful with how we  produce public policy one of the worst examples   of bad policymaking occurred in the state of Texas  in 2021 with storm Erie thousands of people died   with the cold snap that hit Houston Texas um and  that's largely related to bad policymaking in the   way of over over pressurizing wind turbines and  other facilities of energy production that just   did not work during that storm they were down and  they couldn't operate so that's it can you please   state your name so that the clerk can have that  my apologies I'm Dennis hkey h dke i res at 14211   East Whitewood Street in witto thank you council  member ho Heisel oh thank you mayor um I just   wanted to say um irregardless of our different  beliefs on this on climate change and who's   responsible and whatnot uh what I've taken from  the the plan that we presented is more how do we   deal with some things like the drought that we're  currently in I think irregardless of your your   perspective we all want clean water we all want  clean air to breathe and we all want to make sure   that we can respond adequately to um prolonged  droughts which we've had to in the last 20 years   so um that's the the information I hope to glean  with this is how can we respond to make sure that   we are a stronger more resilient Community to any  weather challenges or any challenges that come up   dealing with Environmental Policy going forward  so I appreciate your perspective here appreciate   you coming up and talking to us um but that's  that's the information and the hope that I I   glean from looking at the information that we've  had presented so thank you sir well you're sure   welcome councilman I I will be meeting with some  other council members this week uh and showing   them real data that relate to the question you've  just raised about dry outs so thank you for your   question council member Glascock thank you mayor  woo this is not uh comments from Mr hekey but I   noticed when Mr hekey stood there was like three  other people that tried standing and so a point a   personal priv privilege if somebody's interested  in speaking public comment could they raise their   hand just so there's more opportunities two  so mayor with a motion given that there's   two individuals raise their hand I move that we  extend public comment by 10 minutes I second we   have a motion in a second any further discussion  I see none Madame clerk please open the rooll I motion passes 70 extending public  comment by 10 minutes any individual   who would like to speak please come  forward please state your name and your address hi I'm Diana tedlock and I live in  Maggie's district and of course I'm here once   again talk about the Animal Welfare situation um  first of all I want to say we all know there's a   problem with the KDA regulations we all need to  come together to work on that but we do need to   focus also on what we can do in our own backyard  to make improvements and that is I guess what I'm   here to talk about tonight I wanted to share with  the council that some of the changes we've seen   since the new structure and Leadership at Witchita  animal shelter what the public your constituents   are seeing is an alarming increase in the lack of  transparency visibility and accountability this   is not how meaningful change is going to happen so  when questions are asked or awareness is provided   to the community now visibility is just being  removed so questions were raised why animals were   held for transfer to Kansas Humane Society with a  link stay greater than other animals but that were   being euthanized well the visibility for link  of stay was removed when awareness was brought   about the surge in the euthanasia rates after the  new structure was implemented the year-to-date   visibility for intakes euthanasia numbers return  to owner data all of that was eliminated once   again from the today's email list then the  monthly data was manipulated and they changed   the calculations on that and we went like from  a 40% euthanasia rate on dogs to 8% because they   took all these numbers out of the calculation  that have been there since 2013 or more but   anyway when that was brought up disappeared  visibility disappeared when we brought up   the manipulation of the monthly data that now  has disappeared from the today's list when we   brought awareness about the kennel the empty  kennels needing to be 25% to accommodate the   capacity care philosophy and it was now hitting  35 to 40% empty kennels that visibility has been   eliminated now as well so anytime there's a  question no more visibility needless to say   this is an alarming Trend action needs to be  taken to get this visibility once again checks   and balances transparency visibility freedom to  ask questions and seek answers are all part of a   good operating model these should all be embraced  by anyone in any kind of leadership position then   I'm going to go on to the contracts I had asked  pcel had made some comments on his answering   questions he wented to about the was contract  on his email dated 1028 I sent an email back   seeking clarification on some things and I you  guys re C seed on it so if I haven't addressed   it to the Right audience please let me know  gladly we contact someone else to get the answers so in the was contract it states you  are welcome to bring issues or criticism to the   attention of shelter staff however it should be  addressed only to a supervisor the wording makes   the intent of this sentence unclear especially  when taken in conjunction with with the wording   expressed in the Kansas Humane Society contract  which states at no point will rescues question   privately or publicly determinations made on  animals at was or KHS so does the wording in   the was contract refer to the conduct and the  preferred method of communication only went on   site at the was facility or is this statement  attempting to control The Narrative of indiv   idual speech outside of the was facility somebody  should be able to answer those questions it's in   a contract so in the same email I also asked  about the deadlines uh asked for clarification   about the past deadline dogs being adoptable and  available to anyone there was no mention of the   Kansas Humane Society contract in that email so  I asked does this mean rescues have refused to   sign the KHS contract based on the infringement of  their first amendment rights are they now allowed   to pull animals and tag them if not when is that  elephant in the room going to be addressed when   is the KHS contract going to be revised it is  time to address this issue and the impact it's   had on our animals and our community there are  animal these are animals that are in W's care and   by not addressing this and the KHS contract  you're doing a disservice to the Animals by   limiting their options for a positive outcome  and then I don't know how many of you've had   the chance to actually read the VES the new VES  contract but it now contains my time's over but   I'll send you an email thank you council member  ho Heisel thank you mayor Dian one question for   you and then one question for Bob rake so you're  saying that we are up to 35 to 40% kennel we were   the last time it was put out last time he uh put  that information out was on November 5th question   was asked disability okay thank you um Bob the  two new positions have we filled those yet the   the the manager and then the the licensing leis  on right we have uh mayor uh council member we   have applications for both positions and uh I  believe interviews have been scheduled for the   director position and and the administrative  position U is on hold while they're looking   through the candidates so they haven't scheduled  anything yet because there's some question on some   of the candidates and they would need to verify  some background okay thank you appreciate thanks Diana we have time for one more individual please  state your name and your address and you have five minutes good morning oh it ain't even morning I'm  sorry William Leroy glander I live at at 235 North   Elizabeth and Witchita Kansas I take very lot of  pride in my house uh couple years ago I spoke to   other people that were up here but some of you  are still familiar with me about the resoning   of a property that got back wheel dealed and  administratively approved and this one thing   I'm going to say it in my nice way when the  people are against something you shouldn't   allow it to be voted for as a yes you need to  come to us people and figure out a better way   to communicate this house was vacant for  over a year after it got built I am going   to say to me it's an isore I lived in I moved  in deleno because I love the historic and the   oldness of the houses I don't like the  new it just doesn't fit in well well I   spoke up in Maggie's uh District board about  how it's still been vacant finally got people   there turns out that they're they're okay people I  like them but the house turned around and sold for $287,200 because that makes us lowi income people  in the neighborhood that have our houses paid off   all the retired people that are on a low income it  will increase everybody's rates because the fact   of that house selling for that much it increases  the neighborhood value and that is why I'm up here   speaking that we need to work together and be one  when the people are voting no on something you   all need to not administratively approve it back  wheel door open have someone's hand in the cookie   jar approving anything we need to work together  to make this city strong and good as it needs to   be and speaking here I'm actually I want to put  my name up on the board and be a board member   eventually one of these days because this issue  so I just want to put that out there and thank   you all any question questions thank you thank  you again for all of the individuals who signed   up for public comment or decided to speak uh here  at the council meeting we appreciate everyone who   comes out to our City Council meetings and wants  to address the city council Madame clerk can you   please call the next item consent agenda items 1  through 19 Council Members any items to be pulled I have one item to be pulled consent agenda  item number eight regarding the arpa funds for Transit any other items we pulled from consent  agenda I see none I move to approve all consent   agenda items without Number Eight Second motion  and second any further discussion I see none   Madame clerk please open the RO I motion passes  70 I see Transit director coming forward I had   a couple questions regarding this uh Grant  can can you first um let us know how much uh   Transit currently receives from federal dollars  versus State and general fund dollars absolutely   uh good evening mayor city council Penny Fe  which Todd Transit um so for 2024 um which is   still an estimation we expect to receive 41% of  our funding from the federal government 7% from   state government 38% um from our general fund here  locally and then 133% from our revenue from our   Partnerships and our [Music] fairs is it correct  that the transit budget is approximately 20   .3 million roughly yeah that's our expenditures  for 2023 or 2024 of the 20.3 million can you share   again the breakdown between general fund and  state and federal grants so in other words the   local government is subsidizing Transit correct  currently yes there is the wiah general fund   money um for wiah Transit and for 2024 that's  roughly 38% of the total budget how critical   is this grant um in can you share um some of  the positives of this grant to help support   individuals with disabilities absolutely so uh  this grant is for like you mentioned people with   disabilities and um the elderly and what it allows  us to do is provide personal targeted training to   people who may have a difficult time accessing  the bus system so if they want to know where to   go um how to get on the bus how to get to their  destination we can provide um personal training   for those people um it also allows us to do um  travel training with people with disabilities   and so this allows us to show them how to get  their wheelchair or their devices onto the bus   this allows people who um maybe they can ride a  bike to a certain place we'll show them how to   get their bike on the bus and so I think it allows  a lot of Independence for people with disabilities   as we remove those barriers to Transportation  um so that would be the primary um goal of this   Grant and lastly how many accessible minivans  does the transit system currently have versus   how much how many you will get through this  grant uh currently wishot grit doesn't have   any accessible minivans and this grant would  allow us to purchase one and so with that one   minivan we would be able to assist um riders  with coming from their house to our offices   to be evaluated for their need repair transit  services or to identify what kind of training   we can assist with on the fixed bus route thank  you and this is again 100% federal dollars and no   local match is that correct correct this grant is  100% Federal no local match thank you will I move   to approve consent agenda item number eight second  motion and a second any further discussion I see   none Madame clerk please open the role I motion  passes 60 Madam clerk please call the next item Board of bids and contracts dated November 18th 2024 good evening uh mayor city council  Josh laber Department of Finance Board of   bids convened November 18th 2024 for the  following items we have for engineering   the 2024 outsourced Paving preservation  program CIP Concrete Street repair Phase   2 for conspec Incorporated DBA Kansas Paving  awarded up to the engineers estimate of 110,000   from their original bid for purchasing we have  the witto fire department vehicle storage and   operations center adding alternate one for  Harmon Huffman Construction Group in the   amount of 95,000 we have the Watson Park boat dock  for ABC boat docs LLC in the amount of $193,900 9,792 we have the customer notification  and messaging service software as a   service subscription for everbridge  Incorporated for an aggregate 5-year   total of $18,600 38 we have the  Enterprise Advantage Program   year two for environmental systems  Research Institute Incorporated for $13,500 and for airport we have the  colonel James Jabara new above ground   storage tanks and installation for a  double check Company Incorporated in   the amount of $ 72,2 52 this is how to  become a vendor with the city these are   opportunities for small businesses interested in  participating with the with the city out in the community these are open public  opportunities out on the street today and I'd be happy to try to answer any  questions and I recommend amend your approval   questions for staff I see none I move to approve  the board of bids and contracts for November   18th 2024 second motion and a second any further  discussion I see none Madame clerk please open the   rooll I motion passes 70 Madame clerk please call  the next item petitions for public improvements good evening mayor City Council Members Paul  gunzelman Public Works and utilities for the   record I have a new petition and revised  petitions for your consideration tonight   the signatures on the petitions represent 100%  of the improvement district and the petitions   are valid per Kansas statute Cottonwood  Creek Estates and col Meadows Edition   located in District 4 project will provide sewer  improvements required for a new res residential development and the paddock at 127th Street  um in District 2 on June 25th 2024 the city   council approved Paving improvements required  for a new residential development the developer   has submitted a revised petition with a  revised budget to reflect current market conditions it is recommended that city council  approve the new and revised petition and budgets   adopt a new and amending resolution and  authorized necessary signatures and I   will stand for questions questions for staff  just one for you Paul just as a reminder for   community these are 100% paid by specials  is that correct that is correct yes thank   you a motion to approve the petitions  for public improvements second motion   a second any further discussion I see none  Madame clerk please open the role I motion   passes 70 Madame clerk please call the next  item Downtown parking plan implementation strategy honorable mayor members of Council  Troy Anderson assistant city manager um got a   lot of information here to unpack so uh they're  with me but uh I will try to go through this   as expeditiously as possible so a little bit  of background how did we get to where we are   today uh this has been a conversation that's  been going on in this community for probably   north of 25 years um there's a lot of history and  a lot of conversation that took place before even   2009 but we're going to kind of launch from about  2009 forward uh in 2009 city council adopts uh a   Downtown parking plan and as part of that there's  a lot of really good information in that downtown   plan um 171 Pages something like that I think  um I encourage youall to take a look at it uh   a lot of really good background information  um after the 2009 plan was uh adopted by city   council uh there's a 2010 project downtown as one  of the uh recommendations out a project downtown   was to implement the strategies in the 2009  Downtown parking plan um for whatever reason   uh there were some things that kind of came  to fruition but sort of the the bulk and the   majority of the 2009 parking plan never sort of  be became realized um so fast forward to 2017 2017   there's a a witcha area Metropolitan planning  organization wampo Grant and uh subsequently   several years of community engagement um all of  that information is in the Agenda Report regarding   all of the community engaging that went into that  um subsequently that effort was sidelined during   covid postco we come out um uh the city council at  time sort of reconstitutes the steering committee   go back out do more Community engagement  and in March of 2023 that 2019 parking and   multimodal plan was submitted to city council and  subsequently endorsed by city council so following   endorsement of that plan uh we immediately go into  implementation right and so one of the things that   we started working on were some of the amendments  to city codes and ordinances uh you saw those uh   in uh January of 2024 uh the other thing that  was uh necessary was uh we needed to revise the   operator agreement and so in June just a couple  months ago back in June uh city council approves   amended and stated operation and management  agreement um which was approved by city council   again we continue to um Advance implementation of  the strategies that are identified in the plan um   however in August uh as we commenced Community  engagement um there was uh a request by city   council to pause to delay purchase of the parking  meters until additional Community engagement could   be had so over the next several weeks particularly  I'm going to refer to this as the August Community   engagement we had 12 community events in which  uh City staff participated in subsequently in   September uh City coun we staff returned to city  council with a report to sort of receive and file   uh at that time we simply requested that staff  will continue to coate feedback over the next   couple of weeks return to City Council in the  next 30 to 60 days with a more thorough review   and Analysis of the recommendations and any  proposed adjustments to the implementation   strategies as a result of that feedback and  subsequently the staff would provide options   for the council to consider and do at least two  more Community meetings if not more regarding   parking options we did that and on October 28th  uh there was a community meeting that was held   at the time staff presented four options  options a b c and d uh subsequently at the   second community meeting on November 7th City  staff not only presented options ABC and D but   also presented option e okay so a little bit about  the existing system just high level analysis right   so this statement this quote comes right out  of the 2019 plan plan reads because parking   is a limited resource combined with ongoing costs  for operations and maintenance it's important to   manage public parking effectively using a variety  of to tools these are two concepts you'll hear a   lot about sort of operation and maintenance you'll  see it as on andm on a lot of these slides and   then this other concept around um what are we  doing how we managing parking right these are   these are not competing Concepts right these are  actually very compliment Concepts uh but they are   two separate Concepts so the 2019 plan continues  says based on a review of similar size programs   this plan recommends that the city should  seek to generate gross revenues on the order   of magnitude of roughly 500 to $600 per space  annually this Revenue stream would help budget   towards self-sufficiency so that $600 is broken  down into two categories one is Operation and   regular maintenance recommendation $3 to $400 per  space per year which should cover your operational   and maintenance expenses and then the additional  $200 per space per year towards those capital   outlay capital Investments okay according to that  2019 plan um there's a statement that currently so   you have to put this into context right back  in 2018 they were looking at the 2018 budget   year the parking and multimodal fund generated  revenues of only about $227 per space per year   is where we sort of launch and we talked to folks  about this idea that um there's a reason why we   are not able to maintain the assets as we would uh  desire there's some additional numbers in regards   to those 2018 actuals how we arrived at some of  our calculations and our baselines uh those were   the revenues from 2018 a little over $1.5 million  assuming of $227 per space per year that equates   to a about a 6,800 excuse me a 6800 space system  again just kind of a baseline we're going to talk   a little bit about numbers of uh number of spaces  within within the system tonight but that just   gives you a baseline to to reference again if we  were simply trying to recover our omm at $400 per   space per year for a 6800 space system we should  be generating about $2.7 million annually and if   we are trying to truly recover our onm and our  Capital outlay um at the $600 per space year   we should be generating probably something more  closely to $4 million annually again this is kind   of that Benchmark of what we're doing now isn't  working we continue to see our assets Decline and   we continue to sort of fail at managing parking  what we're doing now isn't sustainable uh this   was a slide that we have shared over the last  couple of months this just shows the parking   fund since 2018 you'll notice the revenues have  been fairly consistent about $1.5 million you   see 2020 the dip kind of recovering back into  23 and 24 at about $1.5 million generally um   expenditures hover right around that same 1.5  million Mark um but in essence uh you can see   they're down at the bottom the difference our  parking fund has continually declined over the   years and if you look at the trajectory in the 24  25 budget in 25 26 and 27 it continued to show a decline another quote that came out of that 2019  plan um says major maintenance including deferred   maintenance may have to be funded separately  for the near term with a goal to incorporate   this into parking fund budgeting in the future  so this is where we start venturing off into   the conversation around deferred maintenance a  recommendation that was made during the August   2024 Community engagement was that the city  should use taxpayer dollars we refer to these   as general fund or Capital Improvement CIP funds  to fund deferred maintenance and make necessary   improvements to parking assets both structured  and unstructured after evaluating several options   staff supports that recommendation funding  deferred maintenance as a one-time expense   born by taxpayers with the idea of ongoing  maintenance in the future being boarded by   the parking fund which uh allows to keep the rates  low but unfortunately does have an impact on the   city's ability to fund other improvements now  and into the future so one of the question that   came up was what are those projects within the  CIP that could be uh what are those sources of   funds that could be used to respond to the  Deferred maintenance in the parking system   this is just a really really high level um at  your desks there was a more detailed list of   the various within the various categories of the  CIP again this is the 10-year forecast right we   went through and uh kind of identified with the  assistance of uh Finance director Mark Manning   all of those projects that are identified  in the CIP that are sort of go at large funded okay okay so continuing with the analysis  kind of now moving forward after coating feedback   and conducting a third review and Analysis we've  identified five alternatives for implementing the   2019 plan we say Alternatives because um these are  variations of or um alternatives to the 2019 plan   as it was originally contemplated so I'm going to  go through in more detail but really really high   level option A implements the strategies in the  2019 plan but there are some modifications option   b has all the features of option A but includes  the first hour of metered parking free option C   Builds on option b by adding Oldtown Alternatives  option D does not implementing any of the   strategies identified in the 2019 plan and option  e introduces a phased approach draws from some of   the suggestions made during the August Community  meetings Carri cares over some of the concepts   from some of the other options but again I'm going  to go through each one of these a little more in depth with each option I'm going to kind of  touch on briefly the geography the hours of   operation the rates the exceptions during my  during the community meetings my slide deck   talked about the um um the financial revenues  and expend expenses I'm going to save those   for kind of one bulk conversation around the  financial considerations so that's a little bit   of a deviation from my previous presentations um  but then I'm also going to kind of walk through   the advantages and disadvantages of each okay so  let's talk geography real fast um option a uh the   boundaries as you see them before you highlighted  in red are the boundaries of option A in which   um hours of operations rates exceptions Etc would  all be applicable the hours of operation are in   short Monday through Thursday from 8:00 am to 6:00  pm and on Friday and Saturday from 8: am to 9:00   p.m. notice we don't include Sunday here the idea  is that on Sunday um there wouldn't be no charge   for parking uh within the area also outside of  of these hours there would be no charge so after   6 p.m. on a Wednesday there would be no charge  within the system sort of the exceptions we'll get   to that in just a second um rates so fees would be  charged at a flat rate of 75 cents an hour in Le   of hourly charges daily rates of $5 in parking  lots $10 in parking structures in lie of daily   rates users can enter into agreements with the  city and pay monthly rates $35 and parking lots   and $70 in parking structures again outside of  the aform in hours not the fact we didn't include   Sundays there will be no charge for parking and  over the course of the first year really after   the first year of full operation staff will  collect data on demand and occupancy and then   return to city council with a recommendation to  adjust rates if necessary so let's walk through   some of the exceptions real fast um first one  accessible I.E handicap parking um we had a lot   of conversation with folks over the last couple  of months regarding accessible parking and state   statutes around charging for parking associated  with accessible handicap parking uh which is   why this appears as an exception uh there's no  charge for U parking associated with accessible   handicap parking there would also not be a charge  associated with loading and rid share designated   parking so again in concert with and coordination  with um our engineering department and our Traffic   Engineers identifying those locations where  loading and ride share designated parking can   be signed and subsequently um rates and the  hours of operation would be this would be an   exception to that same with uh 15minute designated  parking uh in concert with in coordination with   our engineering team our traffic uh Engineers  identifying those locations where a 15minute   sign design at parking location uh would be  appropriate uh during those 15minute designated or   during during those 15minute sessions we would not  charge for parking now we did have a conversation   uh there was a a question that was raised during  the the community meetings about whether or not we   require a registered session or not at this  point we have uh kind of identified maybe a   recommendation that's part of a the process  is that during those 15 minutes that those   individuals register for a session but we're open  to the idea of not requiring a registered session   um and continuing to just monitor how folks are  using those designated parking those 15minute   designated parking spaces all right another  exception is event parking uh obviously the   the rates and the hours uh would not be applicable  to things such as event parking as it relates to   Century 2 Interest Bank Arena Riverfront stadium  and that the event parking would continue to be   charged at event rates regardless of the times  previously mentioned another exception that we   kind of threw out there uh we heard from folks  were uh parking rates in regards to things like   special events right so for example farm and  Art Market as part of uh the annual review and   approval of uh lease agreements for farm and Art  Market uh a petition to city council could be had   that for example 8:00 a.m. to 1 p.m. on Saturdays  from April through December when the events are   taking place those parking zones within two blocks  may have an hourly rate of zero right rather than   having a blanket um uh zero hourly rate across the  entire system the systems are Dynamic enough that   we can respond to these requests for various  zones within the system um that on a Saturday   morning if there's something going on at Century 2  or elsewhere uh where we need to again charge and   manage for parking uh we can exempt just those  zones okay the advantages of option A it is the   greatest likelihood of recovering costs associated  with onm the most effective means of managing   parking the most Equitable parking environment  it does provide for some capital investment again   we're going to show you all of these numbers  here in just a little bit the disadvantages of   option A is yes it does introduce paid parking  or paid parking does not currently exist um and   does not recognize some of the existing parking  agreements okay let's talk about option b this   will go a little bit faster right because for  all intensive purposes the geography doesn't   change the hours of operation does not change  the rates do not change option b would introduce   a new exception however right and that exception  would be that the first hour would be free again   with a registered session requires the user to  enroll on a session using kiosk or mobile app   to establish when parking commenced the city  would still need to purchase all of the same   equipment and failure to enroll in a s session  would still result in a citation all the other   exceptions still apply one of the things that came  up during conversation which is why I include this   slide deck is um and this really is applicable to  a broader conversation as well right around well   if folks are required to register for that first  hour you know do you manage it through time limits   or do you manage it through meters and pricing  this is a table that comes right out of the 2019   plan and it's a a comparison of the advantages  and disadvantages of managing parking through   time limits versus managing parking through  meters and pricing I won't read through all of   this as you can see though uh it is um it is the  opinion that managing parking through meters and   pricing is exponentially more beneficial than  it is through U managing parking through time limits something else to consider when we  looked at option b right was this idea of uh   the first hour free so we looked at some data  uh some recent data over the last year uh was   acquired by geolocation vehicle data suggested  that 35% of visitors to deleno downtown and   Oldtown collectively across the the Spectrum  and this this looks at visitors who are coming   from a mile away to folks who are coming from  a thousand miles away right so it breaks down   all of the categories across all the categories it  was fairly consistent um 30 to 35% 35% of visitors   have a dwell time of less than one hour that means  that those individuals who are coming downtown   are only staying for an hour or less so we can  reasonably make some assumptions that if we're   making the first hour free that would be a loss of  more than a third of our Revenue projections again   while still having to maintain all of the same if  not greater on andm costs and capital investment   the option uh B the advantages yes it does uh  increase the likely hood of recovering some   costs associated with onm you'll see some of  the numbers here uh shortly it does introduce   some concepts of managing parking and it is more  Equitable than some of the other options however   the disadvantages are that it does not recover  all costs associated with onm compromises Safety   and Security in the public lots and garages  it's not effective at managing parking may   be hard to eliminate even with predetermined  goals and does not contribute to the capital   needs option C option C the geography doesn't  necessarily change I have kind of highlighted   the Oldtown uh area here on the map in front  of you um for a couple of different reasons   but generally speaking geography doesn't change  hours of operation don't change rates don't change   we do introduce a new exception though right  so um Builds on option b and also in Oldtown   Oldtown becomes an exception at that point right  um it becomes an exception in the context of not   having to charge for parking this idea that old  town will not have parking meters or time limits   um but the rest of the system is still Bound  by all of the same exceptions so uh one of the   concepts that came up during conversation  right was in order to recover operational   and maintenance expenses associated with uh  those parking assets that are located within   Oldtown there's two scenarios in which um rates  would be or or revenues would be realized from   Oldtown we're going to call these options C1  and C2 C1 real quickly is increasing the rates   associated with all of those inl of parking  agreements option C2 maintains um or makes   Minor Adjustments to the inl of parking agreements  but it alternatively adds a 1% or other percentage   sales tax as the result of a community improvement  district to help increase the revenue stream in   all of our um projections we kind of came  back to this analysis that basically said   in Oldtown there are approximately 1,700 spaces  just to recover costs associated with omm again   using this $400 Benchmark per space per year  that would be $688,000 a year that would need   to be recovered currently we are recovering about  $264,000 annually that's a gap of about $424,000   annually so regardless of whether options C1 C2 or  some hybrid of those two are employed um the idea   that Oldtown would be required to contribute  the $688,000 and the failure to contribute   the $688,000 would simply result in deferred  maintenance um an onm only budget projection would   remain unchanged but we could reason expect a loss  of Revenue totaling $344,000 toward the combined   onm and cap X budget projection you'll see those  in the numbers here in just a minute okay option   C uh the advantages yes there is a likelihood of  recovering some cost associated with onm and it   does introduce some concepts of managing parking  however it does not recover all costs compromises   Safety and Security in the public LS and garages  as a result not as effective at managing parking   may be hard to eliminate even with predetermined  goals some of these are a lot of carryovers   from options uh from option b right um does not  contribute to Capital needs requires a system to   subsidize Capital needs particularly in uh Oldtown  these are the two new sort of disadvantages number   one non-compliance uh would require um lawsuits to  recover fees and inequitable parking environment   resulting in unintended consequences okay real  fast option T option D this is sort of the the   maintain the status quo option right um which is  the advantage of option D the disadvantages an an   inability to recover o andm resulting in Perpetual  decline of the paring parking assets an in an   inability to provide sufficient security manage  growing parking demand require the use of taxpayer   dollars defund deferred maintenance and perpetuity  and inequitable parking regulation okay the last   option option e uh introduces a phased approach as  we said kind of draws from some of the suggestions   you'll see that here in just a second from some  of the community meetings carries over some of   the concepts from some of the other options so  here's sort of the face approach so in 2025 we   would enhance operation and maintenance in the  lots and garages it's this kind of initiating this   clean and safe movement um we would then introduce  higher rates in the lots and garages in 2025 to   try to offset some of those expenses we would then  introduce parking meters in the downtown core only   in 2026 we would not make any changes in deleno  parking Management in deleno would be reevaluated   after the Hub opening and then on street and lot  parking in Oldtown would remain in its current   form but would introduce one of the options one  of the c1c2 revenue streams to help cover those   costs so the geography and option e changes right  so this would now as part of option e exclude all   of the property west of the river uh you can still  kind of see there the the Oldtown sort of overlay   option to option e the rates excuse me the  hours of operation within the area would   remain [Music] unchanged um we initially ran  some of our numbers um against the original   rate structure that is applicable to the other  options just to com continue to kind of compare   apples and apples right so Baron M originally some  of our numbers we use 75 cents an hour and parking   lots and structures in 2025 remember there's no on  Street meters in 2025 um we would then introduce   the 75 cents per hour for metered parking in  2026 using the $5 for parking lots $10 in parking   structures what we realized was um it did not  generate enough Revenue to really be sustainable   so we actually started playing around some numbers  is really kind of trying to figure out is there a   combination of of on street and off Street rates  we got as high as $3 an hour in parking lots and   structures and $3 an hour on Street beginning in  2026 $18 a day in parking lots and $22 a day in   parking structures still did not generate the  revenues necessary for a long-term sustainable   business model but you'll see those numbers here  in just a second um exceptions um it's not really   an exception because as we amend the boundaries  and remove deleno but just to continue to drive   the point home right in option e there would be  um Delena would be excluded from the conversation   Oldtown would still have to uh provide those onm  sort of cost recoveries again Oldtown would not   have any parking meters or time limits all the  other exceptions would apply the advantages and   disadvantages of option e um there is an increased  likelihood of recovering some costs associated   with onm does increase Safety and Security in  the public lots and garages and does introduce   some concepts of managing parking however the  disadvantages are that it does not recover all   costs associated with onm it's not of as effective  at managing parking may be hard to expand even   with predetermined goals does not contributed  to Capital needs non-compliance would require   lawsuits and inequitable parking environment would  result in unintended consequences okay um this is   a little bit new there was a question that came up  during uh the last couple of months this question   of you know doesn't make sense for the city to  Outsource versus insource so we ran some numbers   and kind of put some these are primarily payroll  expenses right so this does not even take into   consideration sort of the equipment costs but as  you can see Outsourcing and we're simply using   using the agreement that was approved back in June  with the car park the TCP there uh currently uh   total is about $684,000 in payroll we ran some  kind of low and high scenarios on the city Side   for the city provide all of that same um Staffing  on the low side it would cost us about $835,000   on the high side about 1.2 million so you can see  they're down at the bottom uh the savings that the   city would realize by Outsourcing this vertical  system to a third party versus trying to manage it inhouse uh there was another question also too  of sort of why are we doing this right um this   is kind of the conversation around why why do  cities get involved in managing parking right   um there's a lot of really good information  out there in fact I even went back to some of   the original sort of books right that folks have  written industry has written books on sort of why   organizations step into this space and start man  there's three really really high level there's   a whole lot of sub bullet points I don't want to  belabor the points today but here's why cities get   involved in managing parking right one we want to  increase efficiency right these assets are really   really expensive there's an impact on on uh real  estate and land and greens space and whole host of   by by creating efficiencies right by creating  shared parking strategies and other things we   can increase efficiency and be good stewards of  of resources number two we also reduce parking   Demand right rather than sort of everybody having  to provide all of their own parking right and and   by introducing sort of these shared Concepts we  can also now start to reduce the demand also being   respectful and thoughtful around um being good  stewards of our resources and the last one is   just in these spaces particularly downtowns right  um cities manage parking in order to continue to   support growth and development again these assets  are are are expensive and are complicated to   manage and so a lot of businesses don't want  to get into this space and oftentimes rely   on cities to help them um in order to grow and  develop our downtowns okay let's talk real fast   about the financial considerations um first and  foremost let's talk a little bit about deferred   maintenance right so funds associated with  deferred maintenance will be identified and   presented to City Council in the future as each  project in the associated scope work is better   defined uh at this point there's approximately $18  million in deferred maintenance that would need   to be addressed over the next couple of years uh  included at your chairs uh before the meeting we   provided a robust list of all of the uh  improvements that we have identified this   was based on an asset evaluation that was done  several years ago so again this by no means is   comprehensive uh this is just sort of a first take  at what that deferred maintenance would look like   um and as you can see it's about $18 million in  deferred maintenance as we continue to dive into   um sort of worst scenarios right we're going to  start looking at things like fire Life Safety   is critical sort of most important to address  first um and then obviously sort of this clean   cleanliness uh how do those improvements improve  to this clean and safe environment we'll continue   to prioritize which garages which Scopes need to  be addressed first and then we can begin to kind   of identify what a timeline would look like um  revenues and expenses also with omm and capital   outlay so as we transition away from uh deferred  maintenance right now and we focus more on onm   and capital outlay those revenues and expenses  which is hard a little hard on the financial   considerations to kind of pinpoint but I'm going  to give you at least a snapshot uh will look   different depending on the implementation strategy  so this is a condensed version of some of the   tables that we've shown publicly uh what you'll  see here here is um again as we introduced option   e uh because it has a phased approach we also had  to sort of model what revenues and expenses would   look like for the other options so you see there  the column titled 6 2024 that's a comparison to   uh the numbers that we used when we presented the  agreement back in June of 2024 and then you see   their options a b regardless of whether it's C1  or C2 option D and then option e and then you see   the total om andm and net gain and loss uh over  the 25 26 27 years and so we also have kind of   helped tried to illustrate within each option  the trajectory of the parking fund so you see   there that uh Top Line that orange line option  a uh has a a net positive trajectory based on   uh the revenues and expenses that were projected  you see there in option a uh the next line there   kind of a light blue line is option D uh that's  the sort of maintain the status quo uh don't do   anything new or different uh option um and as  you can see that is also In Perpetual decline   the other three options options B C1 C2 and option  e all take the existing parking fund um U balance   and you see the net gain loss as it compounds  year-over-year okay wrap up my presentation   here real fast legal considerations depending  on which implementation strategy is chosen   amendments to the existing amended and restated  operation and management agreement may be required   recommendation it's recommended the city council  provide Direction on an implementation strategy   for the Downtown parking and Mobility management  plan and with that I will stand for questions   there will be lots of questions so we'll begin  with council member ho high school thank you mayor   um so I was just doing the math here real quick on  the three years under option A I think it averages   about $400,000 a year as far as um the average net  gain that we have after paying for operations of   management and whatnot is that about correct as  far as what we would expect in the years after   that as well yeah so you'll see there uh under  option A under 2025 uh you would see this sort of   net gain of about $500,000 a year but you see and  really again with all of these options we tried   to maintain sort of Apples to Apples comparison  right so the idea of introducing an additional   security guard across all of the options in  2025 which is why you see the loss in 2026   but then you do start seeing kind of recovery  in 27 and Beyond But to answer your point yes   as we've seen this model $350 to $400,000  a year would be the next gain or loss uh of   option A okay uh just you can correct my math  here if I'm off um so $18 million or so in in   maintenance that we have to catch up on that  would be I mean roughly 50 years to pay for   the maintenance on the garages to catch up  for the Deferred maintenance so um so let me   kind of separate that for just a minute right in  the context of one of the ideas of suggestions   which um was part of this presentation right  was that $18 million of deferred maintenance   would be paid for out of the CIP so these funds  wouldn't necessarily go towards paying that def   maintenance any sort of net gain in the revenue  and the parking fund would go towards future   maintenance and future Capital outlay so  that we assure or try to assure ourselves   that we're not having an $8 million deferred  maintenance conversation at some point in the   future so irregardless of what plan we choose  we're planning on paying for the Deferred   maintenance which is and correct me on this one  too almost entirely to do with the parking garages   uh there are some lots and structures that have  deferred maintenance but otherwise yes the numbers   that we've provided are primarily associated  with parking structures okay um how much do   it cost per space without the parking garages how  much would we expect that as far as um paying for   maintenance and maintenance costs and whatnot per  spot so it's a difficult question to answer right   in the context of um we've seen numbers for um a  parking space average anywhere from say 35 to $65   per space per year all the way up to if you have a  parking lot that needs to be resurfaced you could   see uh a parking lot run upwards of $200 or $300  per space uh per year depending on how frequently   have to resurface space uh resurface lots and  those so it's little okay I appre appreciate   that um do we have any idea when the last time  the par parking garages turned a profit for us so I'm g go back to this slide yeah you're  burning calories the um I want to point something   out right that it looks like 2018 now you see  down in 2023 there was a difference of 53,000   in 2023 um this table was put together prior  to we've actually reconciled some of the and   so if you look at the report from 2023 that 53  there were some sort of unreconciled expenses   at the time and so now that 23 number in our  published uh uh annual budgets is actually a   negative so the last time our parking fund showed  uh a net posit postive gain was in 2018 yeah okay   appreciate that last kind of line of questioning  here deals with option C um what's the thoughts   from the uh Oldtown Association towards a c and  also would it go through the normal process every   business that um would be part of the CID would  have to approve and um does that figure into our   estimates as well like are we assuming every  business down there approves of the C ID the   extra two cents added to uh sales tax yeah we're  assuming that that whatever the state Andor local   requirements for establishing a CID and all of  the um um projections that go into those sales   tax projections right um are provided and so yeah  we're assuming that at that point in time that all   of the prop property owners have bought in that  they provide all the appropriate uh projection   sales projections we've identified what percentage  needs to be applied to recover those onm expenses   yeah we're assuming that it's just sort of this  Net Zero Revenue to expense line okay and what   was the the thoughts of the Oldtown Association  has this been brought to them for comment and   just kind of the to see their opinions on this I  would have to defer to the old I know that there   have been folks who have talked with business  owners in Oldtown um I can tell you that uh   there may be a number of Oldtown property owners  that are for that uh scenario I can also tell you   that there are some uh Property Owners business  owners who would see a disadvantage in going in   that direction so all right and that's kind of  my concern is if our projections is that are   that 100% of people or 100% of business would be  on board with this uh we're going to fall short of   that so just carries about the numbers if I could  the representatives of for Oldtown Association   that have been working on this project um have  asked the if they brought it Forward they'd ask   the council to come down from 100% probably to  about a 90% And they are close to that number   right now still working with folks I believe  they've also had preliminary conversations with   the Oldtown Association because I was told that  they would be willing to help administer this plan   which would include keeping the existing contracts  in place plus a CID on top of that so changing   that regulation would that be entirely up to  council or would there be other the council policy   is 100% so the council would have to wave that  for this case and we wouldn't have to deal with   the state or anybody else stepping it no the state  threshold is much lower than that okay all right   thank you council member Glascock thank you mayor  um few questions quick followup to the manager's   comments when need talk to the Oldtown Association  was it just C specifically or was it c and e   because both seem to treat Oldtown very similarly  the discussion was about I they didn't really go   around C or D what they D is existing you mean e  c and e yeah c and e yes um they didn't make the   they didn't distinguish between the two when they  were talking it was about Oldtown maintaining what   it appears to be free parking to the user uh  and just what's the be best mechanism for them   to support it so I think it would apply to both c  and e in terms of the their approach okay um Troy   thank you for all your countless presentations you  probably reide this in your sleep now um regarding   the 18 million does that include any allocation  towards a biomed parking garage or any allocation   toward the Hub or is that excluding that that is  entirely deferred maintenance entirely deferred   maintenance um so when we look at a drop down you  don't have to go back to the slide but from 2018   to 2019 that's a significant drop drop in Revenue  did the city just begin not to enforce our current   agreements when it goes to the downtown Corp or  why was there significant I mean that's more than $200,000 enforcing so we already have paid parking  in Downtown yes currently there I there I know   there are some meters that are broken but we had  paid parking in downtown so why was the Steep fall   off from 2018 to 2019 in terms of the profit from  the system go to the chart table because it'll show so in 2019 uh we saw a increase in revenue  from 1.5 to 1.6 and expenses went up from 1.3 to   1.6 i' I'd have to go back and figure out what  that uptick of what is that $250,000 I'd have   to go back and find out that seems like a pretty  significant increase in expenses over the course   of one yeah I'd have to go back and figure out  um what that uptick and expenses was okay um   in all likelihood it was some Capital expense  we wouldn't have had an operating expense that   would have jumped by that amount that's what my  concern was why there was a difference if this was   the operating or if this was more Capital overway  because the capital no I appreciate that yeah the   all of our operator agreements particularly since  2009 have all been sort of fixed costs yeah so um   few more questions because the board is lit up  so we respectful for everybody else in terms of   this is a pretty if we go back to the map I page  that's on it's pretty large geographical area in   terms of a lot of communities that we're modeling  in this after have We examined square miles or   square feet how many how we're comparable  to other communities when we're looking at   a holistic enforcement mechanism yeah so all  all maybe so we have representatives from our   operator here this evening the car park he may be  able to wait in on what other communities um sort   of size of um this is simply a u a byproduct  of in fact what's not shown here too is also   the government District so if you look back at the  2009 plan and you look at the 2019 plan in fact uh   both were consistent in identifying a government  District an Oldtown District an arena district   a waterwalk district a deleno district and a  century 2 District this is rep representative   of all of that less the government District  but as far as maybe what some other communi size yeah we could compare some and and get you some  more uh finite data I if I remember right one of   our original plans had the government District in  it we had paid Lots within that area as well so   when did that get excluded because I think that  was in the original presentation was to have the   government District as a part of this right so  we have set aside the government District in the   context of we have City Hall here right we have  a parking structure and we have the parking lot   here at City Hall there's a lot on the corner of  uh Maine and third out here that's kind of part of   that government District but without really sort  of unlocking you know all the on Street all of the   off Street those kind of things we tried to focus  on just those other districts that create this   contiguous sort of boundary okay regarding the  differences between option D and option e so   we look at total revenues for 2025 option D is  the status quo correct yes so option e is Solly   meting the status quo but in it looks like we take  a significant loss um starting in 2025 the ending   balance we start taking $122,000 loss is that  because of purchasing of New Capital Equipment   no what that so if you go back to option D when  I say purchasing equipment purchasing new meters   yeah no we would not necessarily need to purchase  uh meters and that type of infrastructure until   late 20125 as we sort of go into 2026 what you see  as that in increase in expense in what we'll say   2025 a 12- month cycle right is the enhanced  operation and maintenance right hiring that   additional security guard to enhance clean and  safe right how do we ramp up enhance our existing   contract so we can get into these assets start to  continue to improve the assets through uh CIP and   deferred maintenance as well as operationally and  really so you're going to take expenses associated   with that but one of the things we looked at is  can you introduce a rate structure if you're not   going to introduce meters until 2026 is there a  rate structure in lots and structures that could   help you offset that again that's where we went  up to the 18 and the 22 and really what you're   probably going to see is sort of this migration  effect right you're going to see when you stand   that up if there's no on Street meters if there's  no char you're going to see a migration of users   on street and then after 26 after you implement  parking on street you're going to sort of see   this migration back and a balancing effect at that  point but that's why you see sort of a a negative   a really large negative impact in 2025 is because  you're introducing a lot of new expenses without   a lot of new Revenue last question I promise  because it's a followup to that so when we're   looking at Option e what was the justification  because because we have paid parking in the   downtown core right now we have me along Douglas  we had paid parking what was the justification to   extend that and not begin the until 206 the these  were the sort of parameters in which option A was   kind of formed right so establish sort of your  assumptions and then kind of run your model these   were the assumptions that were if the status quo  is already we have we have meters in the downtown   Corp when I say the downtown cor me along Douglas  from St Francis to the river we already have those   why would we wait to enforcement 20 or why would  we wait to if I could mayor if I could part of it   it has to do with we don't have uniform rollout  of meters in the core uh and starting in 26 we   would but we were all we're trying to gear around  the biomed Center so was the whole idea of e was   a ramped up implementation a phased implementation  um especially given the comments we' re we'd heard   in all the public forums trying to be responsive  to that not necessarily that we're trying to find   that perfect solution but just offering an option  and that's what we're looking for tonight just   discussion about are there pieces of this make  sense are there things that you want to move   forward with things you want to abandon that's and  I guess on Douglas it's two-hour limit it would   be the side streets that have actual me thank you  for that clarification council member Tuttle thank   thank you thank you Troy for the presentation  and all of your work and I'll certainly have more   accolades um when we get to that point um slide  71 seems to be all of our favorites thank you for   putting it together followup from council member  Glascock I have questions about total revenue in   2025 for d and e and you explained and I can see  that we're going to have you know fund balance   issues because we're going to be spending money  on new equipment but I still don't understand   for Revenue if D is doing nothing other than  what we're doing now but in the Green Sheet it   says in 2025 we introduce higher rates on lots and  garages why would we not make more with option e   than option D if we're going to be having a fee  increase I mean I understand the expense part   right and then just I'm assuming it says ended  funds balance for 202 for 2005 I think it means   2025 um but do you understand what I'm asking why  is the revenue less when we're charging more right   no am I messing it up no no I I think well but  option D is status quo yeah that's right but it   says that it's um unless I'm reading it wrong oh  am I reading it wrong no 1,600,000 but option e   is 1,200,000 no oh I yeah so let me try to explain  what the do you understand what I'm asking yep and   this kind of goes back to that migration factor  that I was just describing in right is so option D   the numbers for option D were taken from the 24 25  budget right that projected out 25 26 27 so those   are the numbers that come right out of that 2425  budget as far as revenues and expenses Okay the   reason why you would see generally option e less  than option D is because again a lot of the meters   that we see on street now in fact I think you're  going to see you probably s saw started seeing it   in 20 in the third quarter report from 2024 right  our revenues are really starting to take a dive   right and so a lot of that is because of a true  lack of enforcement right um we're seeing this   across the board that even though there are meters  there right people aren't plugging the meters part   people aren't putting money in the meters our our  our meter Revenue has really taken a a nose dive   because there's a true lack of enforcement behind  it so you might be able to bridge the gap a little   bit between that 1.2 and 1.6 by introducing  more enforcement right um but again that's   where just we looked at the models of option a  option b option C and option e based on the the   formulary right that we created option A B and C  with it's hard to plug D in there without looking   at the previous projections right we didn't want  to be misrepresentative and say well you projected   option D revenues and expenses and if you go back  to the 24 25 budget that's different well why well   it's not right we wanted to maintain that option  D sort of the status quo are those same Revenue   projections as has been previously projected AB c  and e are these new models so and I I understand   that and we can talk offline because I don't want  to take a bunch of time but it still doesn't make   any sense to me that if we're going to be charging  more we're generating less Revenue I mean I I   can't I I don't know what I'm missing but we can  talk later so then thank you thank you my other   question was um along the lines council member  whole High SCH um so you have deleno and E right   deleno drops out of e correct but we don't get  anything we don't yeah we don't charge in Delino   anyway right so so um thank you council member  hhis for stealing my notes I appreciate it but so   option C and option e have the concept of the CID  is that correct correct yes and and so my concern   was also that 100% of property owners would have  to agree to be part of the CID for either of those   options to be viable um and and that's a little  you know and I understand you said maybe go down   to 90% but before we actually selected a plan and  voted on it from this bench whatever ever hybrid   it'll be probably like option M by the time we  get there um would we have some sort ofou with   the businesses that they agree for the CID I mean  how are we going to make sure that they buy into   it and and indeed do before we move forward make  sense y mayor the only way you can is through a   petition okay okay yes yes okay that makes sense  so we would would we have to change anything   internally with the city or anywhere to go from  100% in the CID to 90 yes Council will have to   take action to um exempt or wave that requirement  for this CID okay thank you very much and like I   said I'll have more but thanks for now y council  member John Sten thank you mayor thank you Troy um   if you're ever sick I might be able to give this  for you I've seen it like four times now so yeah I   probably don't want to do that a fine job um one  thing I might just point out that the if there   was a Cid in in Oldtown there's about $40 million  sales in the area generate about $400,000 you need   424,000 for om andm and onm is some people don't  know what that is Operation and maintenance so it   would it would come close to to covering it um so  just point that out um three uh uh second second   thing is City hard City Hall Park parking garage  now does it if you just take it separately does   it break even or parking lot at City Hall with  City Hall Parking Garage how how is that funded   yeah so um the city hall parking garage and the  surrounding prop call it the government District   right is part of the parking fund so we don't  want to be we don't want to exclude that right   but we're not suggesting making any changes in the  government District today which is why we haven't   really taken it into consideration in regards  to some of these other options right we're we're   we're simply talking about within that boundary  that we've shown right here are the numbers we've   got some numbers associated with the the parking  garage and the maintenance of the city hall   parking garage and the maintenance of the surface  Lots right outside here of City Hall um and there   are some folks who are paying to park within that  lot or within that parking structure right and   so but we've kept the government District sort of  numbers out of just to continue to try to compare   apples to apples as much as we could so the  government District parking lots are not included   in these numbers no okay separate I I I take that  back it's included in one number and it's this   option D number right because we took that right  from the 2425 annual budget that showed revenues   and expenses projections for 25 26 and 27 so in  that case yes option D does include the government   District numbers because the part it's part of  the parking fund but the rest of the options AB   b c and e do not consider the government District  okay okay you you made a point that says managed   parking reduces parking demand yes does that mean  less people come to Oldtown downtown deleno less   demand for parking or no explain that to here's  kind of a uh best way to I I can explain it's   called a park one solution right and the idea is  when you create these environments particularly   downtown um if I'm coming downtown if I can  create an environment that is is walkable is   has multi modes of transportation Within close  proximity right I now no longer have to park if   if I'm coming downtown and I want to go to work  and then go out to dinner and then go shopping   somewhere right I might have to traditionally go  park in three different parking spaces depending   on how far those are apart from each other  right in these downtown environments where   you you increase the efficiencies of multimodal  and parking and walkability and Etc right I can   lower the demand now I don't need three spaces  per se right I only need one space it's kind of   a park one solution in the industry they  call it a park one solution but that one   car would be parked in three different spaces  the demand would be the same it still be one car correct demand in the context for the demand  for the number of spaces number of spaces right   okay what your saying next to certain venues or  something right so and and a shared parking model   right here's another good example um I could have  one space if it's a private parking lot associated   with an office that private parking lot Parks  an individual Monday through Friday 9:00 to 5 on   nights and weekends that parking space sits vacant  in a shared parking model I now have a multif   family residential Apartment project next door  that on nights and weekends I can take advantage   now I'm not having to build two parking spaces  one for each use I have a shared parking model   okay so you also were depending on some maybe  public transit taking people there instead of   driving it's a long-term plan and a long-term  strategy right th this parking it's part of the   parking and multimodal plan right so parking  is just one construct that helps achieve the   long-term goals and objectives of downtown and  the city right it's not it's not the one and only   implementation right to your point yes eventually  one of the things that we should be talking about   are what are those multimodal strategies to  help increase walkability maybe it's public   transportation but thinking multimodal for sure  okay or if you're like JV you drop your wife off   and go park three blocks away don't pay anything  yeah y a little Thrifty um last question is uh   the bio me just with manager too uh the biom med  center did we ever promise them a parking garage   so as part of theou right it's a memorandum of  understanding um was to provide parking to support   the project right at the time when we entered into  thatou right we had the 2019 plan endorsed but we   didn't know what the ultimate parking demand of  the biomed was going to be and if you go back to   some of the original conversations some of the  suggestion was they were going to need 1,700   spaces we said well right that I've never seen a  project have 1,700 space I mean never but so we've   in conversation we've the last conversation we've  had about 800 right as we continue to fine-tune   and understand there's a conversation we're  having right now of what is a what is a circular   circulator look like from campus to downtown  could that drive down the number of parking spaces   that we really need to support this um uh that's  certainly part of the conversation but of at at   the last conversation Benchmark that we've been  working off of it's about 800 spaces that we're   looking to try to provide how many how many  spaces do you have there's two par garage are   fairly close yeah city owns just how many spaces  do you have in those two just just to break it   down a little further what we've talked about  is about 200 spaces in existing garages 100   on uh surface lot which would probably be where  the current Transit Center is and then about 500   new spaces that's the initial plan that we've been  working on so yes you're right there is capacity   some capacity in our existing garages you think  that capacity is 200 that's what we are talking   about right now okay y um just browsing the CID  I don't see anything in the budget for that is   there any there one in there no because what we're  talking about is um the we because we don't have   a firm deal on that we're still negotiating  so we it's not reflected in there a portion   of it will be paid by Tiff and so we're still  determining how how what the financing would be   for that and Council just recently approved the  amendment to the Tiff District that will allow   us to use that money for a parking garage  how much well you think that'll generate yet we think that it'll contribute probably  8 million give or take towards the overall   project depending on the supporting project  right because a gage in and of itself doesn't   generate any property taxes right it would  be the ancillary um development that would   come along with a parking garage that would  then generate additional property tax that   could be and rebated back to Tiff to pay for  the parking garage what's the cost of a 500   space parking right now man right now we're  our best estimates we're modeling after the   Hub that was recently U broken grab we're  looking about $38,000 to stall so 38 quick   math 38,000 time 500 about 19 million 19 to  20 million-ish so we got $11 million gap yep okay that could be a challenge couldn't it well  so remember right um part of the original plan   if you look back to the 62024 numbers right  part of the original plan is this idea that   you don't necessarily um have to use the CIP to  fund these types of projects right you can bond   for this type of work and you can use the revenue  that a parking fund generates to cover the debt   service over 20 years right yeah so okay makes  sense uh last question I I agree with councilman   member Tuttle that doesn't make sense and part  of that is 2025 you don't Implement any of the   parking downtown so e looks really bad because you  don't start implementing the revenue and still 26   whereas in a you start taking building the revenue  right away way so of course it's not not really   Apples to Apples why why are you waiting a year  to to put the meters downtown on on option e um   again those were just the assumptions that we  were given to put into the model right it it   was an it was the rationale for doing something  in the core was to be ready for the biomed Center   that's the only reason it's timed this way it's  not to implement it I mean and again if Council   says we want to implement core in 2025 then we're  prepared to do that and that's what is in option a   um you're right about that but it was what we're  trying to do is reflect what we heard from the   community and in in all the public forums but  it's an arbitrary start and just as the same as   waiting on deleno until we have the Hub that was  the assumption is we just don't know what Delo is   going to look like until the Hub is constructed  so yeah well if if it's it's not really Apples   to Apples in it's apples and oranges and peirs  yes it's it's all different tried to keep it as   as consistent as possible with the formulas right  but you're right if you add the revenue in 26 and   25 right away it it puts option e in a probably a  positive number well other than if you look at 26   and 27 when you actually do Implement that yeah  you're still running a750 to $800,000 negative   gain or net loss so even if you look at just 26  and 27 and you forget 2025 these net these net   gain or loss are not compounding right that's this  map right these are just if you look at 26 numbers   versus 26 numbers so you're right you go from 2026  a net loss of 828,000 in 27 a net loss of 777000   you might get to net positive I I know I don't  even want to begin to speculate how long it would   take you but yeah you see it get better and better  right yeah so if you if you just threw out 25 you   would see It'll see still see kind of the effects  of optioning okay okay thank you yep council   member hoisel thank you mayor um just a little bit  on option C and option e um the C now A C is 2%   sales tax that goes into a private uh development  correct and and then there's 10% that can be used   for public funds so so remember when we're looking  at options C1 or C2 and again I I want to come   back C1 does not have the CID sales tax C1 is  just this idea that we would increase all of   the rates across all of those inl of agreements  it's the sort of the ci2 okay so then you look   at a CID right A C has to be approved first based  on Revenue projections based on tax receipts that   we're seeing amongst the the retailers in the  district we begin to kind of project out you   can Implement whatever percentage you want up to  that 2% it could be a half a percent it could be   1% could be 1 point five six seven perent right  and so based on the projections you you you put   forth the tax rate that then goes on all of the  purchases within the district um to get your   point of how the money comes back right if the  money comes back the city could be the recipient   of those funds because we are managing parking  we've been in conversation it doesn't necessarily   have to go to a development it's just going back  to reimburse the eligible expenses so is there   anything internally we would have to do to alter  a CID application in order to essentially have one   for ourselves as opposed to a private development  um I I can get together with Bond counsel and   give you a more definitive an I don't think I  have any bond counsel here tonight but state law correct so under state law we've imposed  greater restrictions than what the city manager   was informed was the participation right of  who's required to petition so we've set a   higher benchmark we we can lower that threshold to  create the CID but if we're the recipient of those   funds any much like any other sort of bond holder  right of paying those bonds whoever the recipient   is they're going to pay their bond they they could  end up at the end of the day paying the city for   those costs I'd have to get together with yeah I  could Mis maybe I'm misunderstanding your question   but the city can't the council cannot initiate a  CID on its own it has to come from a a majority of   the property owners in in the area and then with  a stated purpose and in this case it would be to   pay for public parking but since they do not own  the parking lots they do not own the project it's   more like are we actually eligible to do this or  are there going to have to be some changes that   we go through in order to uh for this project  to qualify for a c because normally it's hey we   want to put a you know a grocery store here and  then we do a CID on that and then 10% goes for   sidewalks and bus stops around so that's kind of  the public aspect of it is that 10% well but but   I think the stadium district is a good example  of a CID that's going back to pay for Stadium   cost so it's for a public purpose yeah okay I I  see what you're saying was there internal changes   that we had to go through the process in order to  pass that individual c yeah okay so there would   we'd have to alter the plan again aside from just  the uh there's not a c there's not a c in Oldtown   today so the Declaration sort of in the b in the C  documents of who's carrying the debt and who needs   to be paid with the proceeds to the city manager's  Point like other districts that have public   improvements right they just know that those are  the recipients of those funds because they hold   the debt on the funds that were contributed to  the project so I don't think there's anything   special or unique in that that we already done  okay thank you y councilman Bri GL last question   is just based on councilman Johnston's comment so  the 18 million in terms of Maintenance so that's   capital we're adding 11 million to that the biomed  so it comes up to about 29 million it's missing   Gap so there's deferred maintenance if I were to  kind of say there are our expenses associated with   a look back right and then how we approach New  Capital outlet and new Investments a lot will   be derived out of kind of how we we look at the  parking fund going forward right depending on the   feedback we receive here today right our parking  fund may look wildly different than the trajectory   that we have been going so that's why we've been  separating those two of deferred maintenance is   one thing that we're just going to have to think  about right and make a decision on and but in the   future our future Investments they can be funded  in part by parking Fund in part by other resources   like Tiff and other things right there there  will be a capital stack so to speak on how to   recover pay for debt associated with new capital  invest payment structures but still 29 sure um   then we're going to the park one solution because  uh you mentioned that to councilman Johnston it's   regarding Park one it's not in this document but  I think it was in the first one that we had that   said that really Max Capacity for all of our  assets is about 30% time so is that correct so I think the numbers that you're referring to  are probably one of my original presentations   one first ones yeah yeah yeah if you look at  the 2019 plan that occupancy was across all   parking public and private so yes just to make  sure that the clarity do we have a delineation   between just the public aspects versus the private  aspect parking you know I'll go pull up the plan   and see if there the plan really talks about  the capacity of parking within the downtown it   doesn't really get it there's a couple of charts  that talk about the public versus priv I'd have   to go back and see if there's any of those tables  that specifically talk about occupancy of public   versus occupancy of private if I'm my memory  serves me correct a lot of those tables Within   that plan just talk about on Street versus off  Street versus it doesn't differentiate between   public and private because if we're looking at  supply versus demand it seems that we have a lot   of Supply absolutely and maybe less demand so  I mean councilman hois has mentioned multiple   times of the possibility of selling off lots  that may not be that may not need to be part of   our supply hopefully cover some of the maintenance  facility so that just modeled and then I know that   we'll talk more in all comments but that's all my  questions thank you I see no one else on the board   but that means um I have a list of two pages worth  of questions that I did submit um to assistant   city manager beforehand but I wanted to summarize  something first please correct me if I'm wrong   biomed Center needs approximately 500 additional  spaces in some sort of possible structure and it   will cost approximately $19 million we also have  deferred maintenance that is now according to the   Green Sheet $18 million that's a total of 37  million we have not accounted for in either   the CIP or any of our other budgets is that  correct I I think that's one way to look at it I mean I I I say that in the context  yeah I mean I say that there's a lot of   projects that have been in the conversation  that may not necessarily be identified in   either the CIP which was previously approved and  conversations that have taken place thus far even   this year right and ongoing projects that will  present themselves so I think it's a fair and   accurate statement yes so we have $37 million  that has not been accounted for according to   our budget that passed in August of this year  so we'll have to figure out where to get $37   million is it also accurate to say that we have  a $22 million budget deficit from 2025 to 2028   according to the most recent um accumulation of  that deficit number from our August 2024 budget   presentation so that's a total of $59 million that  we have to figure out how we're going to pay for   manage um brought Peter to pay Paul I I guess I'm  just trying to understand the gravity of how much   in a deficit we actually are so can can the city  manager please tell me and the council how $59   million we will find in the next few years to try  to cover right we've spent a lot of time talking   about the operating deficit and we're working on  um projects right now to get a running start for   25 on so that we can reduce the amount of deficit  for 26 and 27 27 is really where we have the the   the start of our Pro significant problems and  we'll continue to position ourselves for that   on the garage for the biomed Center the original  performer for that project assumed assumed that   there'd be enough Revenue basically from an option  A to be able to take Tiff and parking Revenue to   finance the debt so that originally it was to be  neutral if we were able to go in the direction   of option A if the council decides not go in that  direction we have to revisit what the commitments   are to WSU there is as council member Johnston  said there is no number that we have committed   to formally with WSU we've talked about what they  believe their needs are we continue to talk to   them in fact I had a meeting as recently as last  Friday talking about how much they really believe   they're going to need how much they can handle  as Troy said through Transit links between the   university and downtown so we're still not quite  sure what that final number would be but we've   been planning for 500 because we think that's  the maximum that would be needed the where I   think you're most correct is what that is the $18  million that has to be funded over next several   years not just next year but over a longer period  of time because as you look at the list there are   a lot of things that have to be addressed in the  garages that are not immediate needs so I do think   that we have the ability to adjust and especially  if our Revenue situation starts to improve it all   we have the ability overtime to be able to address  the needs probably the most significant needs that   I saw were elevators of about one and a half2  million doar but a lot of the other items are   smaller items that that over time if neglected  will become significant and so we're trying to get   ahead of the curve with all of those changes that  concerns me Gravely um I want to know question   that I did not ask in the email but I think it's  prudent to ask right now why were no federal arpa   dollars used for deferred maintenance if we knew  that deferred maintenance was something that was   looming because we we don't have a project we  don't have any projects that were designed on   a timetable that we could commit them and in  fact if you the CIP dollars we've been talking   about are for projects that were in the pipeline  already designed and we were able to commit we   needed a contract in place by the end of 2024 my  question is really more about the process prior   to this year of why not why did we not utilize  arpa dollars allocated whether last year year   before when we knew that deferred maintenance was  a continuing conversation why was that not part   of the conversation to put some money aside  for deferred maintenance with arpa dollars right I don't know that I have a good answer  for you mayor in that regard we talked about   Capital Improvements that originally scheduled  with go that we are funding that will free up   go in the future so it will free up dollars  that could be utilized to help offset that $18 million I'm going to go to the green sheet  right now which is what um Community has   and this is quote over the last 15 years  Witchita has attempted to balance the cost   associated with operations and maintenance  of the parking system with effective parking   management practices unfortunately the  city has thus far struggled to achieve   that balance so my question is why has the  city not prioritize operations maintenance   of the parking system over the past 15 years and  why has it not adjusted prices to achieve cost recovery mayor that that issue actually dates back  to the late 1900 or 1980s or 90s excuse me 1990s   we have staff reports and work that was done back  then that talked about concerns on the system and   the need for additional Revenue to offset expenses  and we I remember when I first arrived in 200920   raised the question with the council that time  and there was a concern about affordability of   our parking downtown and what would happen if  we raised rates and so some recommendations made   at that time were rejected by the council in the  ear at that period of time so the issue has been   raised on a number of occasions over different  administrations regarding what's happening with   the parking system and I think what Troy has done  has shown you that since what was the first report   [Music] 2009 or earlier y yep we raised that issue  and there's been I would say some inconsistent   feedback from the business community regarding  the need for affordable or free parking and back   in 2009 when I arrived the emphasis from downtown  Representatives we needed as much free parking as   possible that's the same thing that was said in  1998 when staff talked about raising rates so it's   that whole idea of trying to balance the two has  been with us since that for that long period of   time May go to slide number 55 which is regarding  Oldtown um This concerns me also um I think it's   it's the one about option C and it shows there we  go thank you very much 56 rather um my question in   that is why have there not been increases in cost  recovery even in those agreements right there in   Oldtown so what you're trying to tell me is that  over the last 15 years we've been undercharging   and continue to undercharge why we can only go  on records from back in the late 1990s when a   commitment was made to the property owners at that  time that they would have uh $7.50 if I remember   correctly charged and that the there was not an  escalator placed into those contracts there was   some discussion about it it was resisted I think  by those property owners in Oldtown at the time   and so the deal that was struck by the city was  to leave it at 750 per space for the for the those agreements I will leave it at that again  also concerns me that contracts are not   being negotiated in the best interest of the  city and its citizens in cost recovery at the   very least cost recovery has to be at the  Forefront of any contracts we um as a city   negotiate with anyone outside of the walls of  City Hall so I guess that's just a side note of   making sure that contracts moving forward always  make sure that we have cost recovery first um   my question for option A now is it's 75 cents per  hour is that for for the foreseeable future if not   why was 75 cents selected versus another price  because I'm concerned if option A was chosen   by this Council that next year we would have  another conversation about that might not be   the right price so can we have an explanation yes  well I'll I'll answer that question um remember   back in uh June of 2024 the 2019 plan doesn't  contemplate sort of a a flat fee right the 2019   plan contemplates a range of 75 cents to $2 an  hour uh it was this idea of a it's not an idea   it's a practice of variable rate structure right  in higher demand areas you have a higher rate   structure right to balance your occupancy  and in lower demand areas you have a lower   rate to balance your occupancies right and you  find that balance across the system by having   variable rates when we say variable rates we're  not saying that they change by the day right these   rates change with advanced notice across years  right one year depending on uses in the area   demand occupancy uh a block face might go from  a dollar to a125 right to try to achieve that   desired 85% occupancy along that block face so as  we were presenting this in August right um there   were folks who expressed opposition to this idea  of a variable rate structure right and so trying   to maintain sort of the lowest possible entry  point into the paid parking system 75 cents that   that range 75 cents to $2 an hour was identified  in the 2019 plan uh that was the lowest sort of   possible entry point into a flat rate across the  board so that folks felt confident and comfortable   that they had a reasonable expectation that  regardless of where they parked they knew they   would be paying 75 cents an hour that was the that  was one of the recommendations that came uh from   Community meetings back in August so as we've said  once we Implement that 75 cent per hour rate and   same with the $5 and the $10 right whatever  the rate structure is we'll evaluate through   data collection and occupancy and demand modeling  right like if there is a need to try to achieve   the goals and objectives of the plan if there  needs to be a rate increase for a block face for   district for an area and we'll bring that back  to city council hey based on this information   and this data we think you should increase the  rates in this area from 75 cents to a dollar or   from 75 cents to a125 but we would make all of  that information available that would all be a   very data driven recommendation that would have  to come back to see now if city council doesn't   want to to approach it from that perspective right  if there's a hey we don't want to look at 75 cents   now well let's let's do a dollar now and let's  freeze it for the first three years and then   let's look at data collection over the three years  I mean how we establish the rates is entirely up   to you all on what you think is the best um going  forward of how we would Implement something like this for option A again on the Green Sheet it  says this option quote doesn't recognize some   existing parking agreements what will be the  penalty for not fulfilling the city's end of   the of an agreement and breaking an agreement  so that reference is to the Oldtown parking   payment in lie of right so imagine if um these  Agreements are not not necessarily a two-party   agreement right these Agreements are an  agreement by the owner or business to pay   a fee in lie of having to provide parking within  the zoning code all uses are required to provide   a certain number of parking based on their use  and size of their building so on and so forth so   in lie of having to provide your own parking  this is an agreement that the property owner   or the business enters into that says in lie of  having to provide my own parking I agree to pay   X so by implementing on street parking lot paid  parking right as option A contemplates and as   the original plan sort of contemplates you would  no longer need those parking those payment in lie   of parking agreements we could go back and it's  been kind of the strategy all along right go back   amend the city's zoning code to exempt Oldtown  and down really downtown is exempt from parking   as it exists today you could exempt Oldtown from  parking requirements which would basically nullify   all of those existing agreements Property Owners  businesses would not no longer have to pay those   inlo of parking agreements because the zoning  code would not require parking I see council   member Johnson wanting to ask questions so I'll  refrain until council member Johnson ask his   questions thanks mayor um wasn't a question just  clarification um I know the manager didn't answer   um the arer question um as far as I think to to  what you were getting at but I'll I'll answer that   the arpa funds just to Center everybody came from  a global pandemic um the council's priority at the   time with the funds was not deferred maintenance  it was making sure that we didn't lay people off   so number one was half of those funds going to  make sure that we kept Staffing levels where   they were that we weren't sending people home that  they would have um job opportunities and trying to   find work for them to do so that was the elected  body's number one priority um deferred maintenance   was not a part of that two was looking at um  programs we could start that would be a benefit   longterm or infrastructure so that's where you  see fire stations and all of that and programs   to help reduce violence in the community um that's  where money that's helping support the max comes   from that's worth some money to help one of  the police stations came from so Council was   looking at priorities to address those long-term  issues maintenance is important but um trying to   govern through the pandemic which I still have  not fully um recovered from um was really trying   to make sure we did what was best for our city  team as well as some other infrastructure needs   Patrol East was extremely small you needed you had  aund what six officers there that building could   hold 44 something like that so those were the  priorities of the council at the time it wasn't   that the manager wasn't bringing up or thinking  about deferred maintenance but the electeds had   other priorities and we made sure that those  were there and that's helping us today with   funds again supporting the mac and some other  things just wanted to provide clarification on that I'll continue with asking a few more  questions Troy um I actually had the opportunity   to drive around several of these parking garages  um so I'd like to see I know that we have the   contract agreement here but I I think Community  would probably like to see this too I'd like to   see the current contracts in place for the C six  city-owned parking garages the name of the entity   the number of stalls the price per stall how long  is the contract how much has been paid yearly   since the contract commended and then that's  really where my question about if we need to   make changes to those contracts because we've made  commitments or the city has made commitments to   parking stalls in all of these garages which means  that they're already quote occupied and so again   another reason why a 500 space parking garage for  biomed is uh in the works or being talked about   um so I feel like that's a question really at the  heart of that question is so these six city-owned   parking garages have had $18 million in deferred  maintenance who was responsible then for the   actual maintenance of these six city-owned  parking garages what was that Public Works   was that the parking management organization  that the city contract Ed with can you help me   with understanding again how we got into an $18  million hole so there's a lot there let me see   if I can unpack that a little bit um from the  existing operator agreements um up until June   of 2024 um there were there was very little  money being put into to both operations and   maintenance as well as Capital outlay One of the  I don't know if it's an an analogy or an example   that I've been using right is as a homeowner um  a homeowner might be responsible for maintaining   right servicing and their own HVAC system twice  a year right having somebody come out clean it   inspect it make sure it's in good working order  so cleanliness and routine maintenance right   is generally the responsibility of the operator  if we're not giving the operator enough money to   kind of do that they can only do with what they're  given on in part on the other half of that right   is in that analogy of us if that HVAC system  goes out and you have to replace it that's a   capital outlay right and that's as we've shown  in our illustrators we have not put any money   into Capital outlay so those systems are just  continuing to get deferred maintenance replacement   Etc is just continuing to get deferred we did talk  about maybe that perhaps in 2019 there was maybe   $250,000 that was put towards maintenance why you  saw that increase in expense in the parking fun   line item right but for all intents of purposes  historically there hasn't been enough money put   towards these operation and maintenance agreements  and we haven't been putting money towards Capital   outlay can I summarize that by saying that we  have not been putting money into maintenance but   instead creating new which really again concerns  me anytime we build something new maintenance has   to be taken into consideration fully so you you  buy a new house you think about okay you have   your HVAC it might go out in the next 10 years  better start planning for that replacement now   I guess that concerns me that that has not been  at the Forefront of the thought process with the   parking management system from the get-go and  so for me um it's really um concerning that now   I have options I'm just one person again on the  council so I'm looking at these options when the   current system hasn't been fully maximized to  its full potential even with just the current   parameters let alone option A B C E even just  the current system in itself option D hasn't   been fully utilized to its full potential which  means I'm not comfortable with a B C or E right   now and part of me is thinking option D is an  option that we have not been fully um been given   enough information on because we haven't been  doing the best job on just doing what currently   is at our hands and so I'm very uncomfortable  with all the other options but again I'm just   one person so um it has again just a comment I  I made from what you've just said so I don't see   any further individuals on uh the board who would  like to speak so thank you very much Troy we will   now open up like to speak oh sorry vice mayor B no  you're you're okay really quick um I just kind of   wanted to make a comment um and then a question  and then um you can go out to public comment but   I just wanted to make the comment that uh we  can see what happens when we turn our back on   parking nobody really loves any of these options  but clearly what we're doing isn't working we   cannot change what has been done over the last  several decades but it is our job to look um at   all the options and make the best decisions what  we can what we can do is Implement a plan moving   forward our community deserves Clean modernized  safe parking in the core of our city I appreciate   all the comments feedback presentations and  so on But continuing to talk about the problem   isn't moving the city forward the amount of  Maintenance isn't going away if anything it   will increase by it being unaddressed option  A is the only one that helps address any of   the improvements needing I'm just curious why we  are still entertaining anything other than option a council member Tuttle thank thank you I just  I'm sorry to belabor this but I do have one   more question and I tried to find it but I'm just  going to cheat and ask experts who know the answer   um and and I'll have comments later could we have  used arod dollar for maintenance I'm recollecting   and I I'm trying to find it but I thought it  was more for new builds and new infrastructure   projects and I'm kind of looking at Bob but maybe  Troy or anybody else who knows but there were very   specific guidelines of what we could and could not  use arpad dollar for because we poured through you   know where can we pay by where can we get a new  you know we know that you know Public Safety is   one of the biggest issues in our community so how  could we do this and how could we do that could we   have used arpa dollars for maintenance for current  structures mayor my recollection is that the only   Revenue the only arpa dollars you could have used  for that purpose were the revenue replacement   dollars okay that's where you had flexibility  which really is again apples to oranges but the   community initiatives you could not um there  were like other buckets and those were very   specific purposes had to benefit communities or  neighborhoods that had disproportionate impacts   from covid yeah there were a lot of standards that  were outlined by the act because I've said from   this bench before I'm quite proud of the way we  spent our arbit dollars we took everything threw   it out in the kitchen table and sorted through it  and I think in the most efficient manner that we   could listening to our community members so I just  want to make sure that you know the the sound bite   isn't out there that we could have used aridell  and we couldn't when we we could we could have   used our for dollar and we didn't when we couldn't  so thank you thank you council member johnon thank   you I'd like to answer Vice mayor's uh concerns  of why we' consider something else besides a uh   I've heard from a lot of uh Oldtown businesses and  deleno businesses uh mainly restaurants that have   never recovered from covid they've never gotten  back to where they were like other businesses   have in our community they're just barely over the  break even line barely making money and they think   if they lose five or 10% of their business it puts  them in the red that would be worse because then   we have empty buildings Oldtown Delano uh I want  to verify that because sometimes business people   small business people kind of kind of try to Jade  a little bit to get their way and so I contacted   a couple beer distributors how much beer you sell  is the direct result result of how much business   you have and uh they confirmed it they confirmed  it that that's that's the case that they're just   barely making it they have not recovered like  other businesses have so I'm concerned about   that and that's why um maybe we should look at  some other options because I I don't I I know   I understand why big businesses want want to do  it I understand that you know it but the small   business guy often gets overlooked uh ignored uh  doesn't get listened to having been one for about   40 years I I get that so uh anyway that that's the  reason why we should look at other options in my mind I see no further uh comments or questions  from the bench so we will now open it up for   public comment please state your name first and  last and your address and you will have up to five minutes hi my name is Richard ngle  s CH NL and I live on South Charles um to your statement about uh companies  struggling ever since covid well it was a   combination of covid and President  Biden um it really hurt everybody   families and businesses but  don't worry Trump's coming um Madam mayor when you first took  up this position I remember you   saying something about um there  being a Witchita City deficit of   over 50 million Is that real what 22  million now oh what happened to the 50 it's in your pocket um but uh this discussion tonight you you called   out two numbers totaling over 50 does that  mean we're headed towards 100 million real quick or did I misunderstand something here I don't see anybody nodding or shaking their  heads here is 100 million turning into a real   number here real real quick because I don't know  who's going to pay for that wiah might have to go   into chapter 11 um I wanted to make a comment  about uh my neighbor in the seating area there   that that made a speech earlier tonight I forgot  his name Ed key something like that um but uh it   it jogged my memory in 2008 I read a book called  called Dark winter this a small book 150 Pages the   first 50 pages by the author and the next hundred  Pages was all charts and graphs and and tons of   data and uh it was all about basically climate and  uh in that data that was provided was a Core ice   core where they uh sampled the bubbles to see  what the atmosphere was like at that time and   what they discovered was that the carbon dioxide  layers levels increase after the temperature goes   up which is completely backwards from what all  these uh all these experts are say saying that   the carbon dioxide is causing the temperature to  go up and it's it's actually the opposite um and   and I I don't understand why they concentrate  on carbon control and carbon dioxide control   because it's a very weak greenhouse gas and we  have much worse ones entering our atmosphere   like uh methane 10 times stronger than than  carbon dioxide but that was a very interesting   book that that chart of the uh the bubbles in  the ice course I found that very enlightening   I don't trust any climate expert anymore not  a single one I think they're full of bull um but that's it for me thank you  very much and have a good evening hello there my name is Dan Norton I'm with  Norton's breing company 125 North St Francis um   glad you guys are having another meeting um thank  you Mr Johnson for bringing up that last point   that kind of echoed my sentiments and why I'm here  I just want to focus on the small business owners   downtown and kind of where we're coming from um  you're right we haven't fully covered from Co   as a matter of fact um 2023 was a pretty darn  good year um Everybody I've talked to all my   constituents Downtown Bar and restaurant owners um  we're all down about an average of 20% compared to   last year we're all kind of restructuring our  businesses to survive um so we have a lot of   concerns mainly with the public feedback we've  seen from social media posts about the parking   plan and comments uh with it like a it's seems  to me a 99% disapproval ra rating from the public   lots of comments I guess we're not coming downtown  even though it's just 75 cents an hour whatever   the the the public perception of it is um they're  not approving of it and that scares the heck out   of us small business owners as I'm sure you know  um uh the downtown core is not walkable nobody's   parking in one of your parking garages on Waterman  and walking 12 blocks to River City buring company   um they're not using those parking garages like  You' think our downtown uh Oldtown or deleno is   walkable Oldtown is walkable but the core is not  there's not enough small businesses there and   we've been trying to grow it I know you guys have  done a great job um helping small businesses kind   of help develop downtown and that's the goal right  is to get downtown elevated to a destination that   is walkable um I think addressing the M the  mobile plan to to have public transportation   probably needs to come before this it seems like  you were you were stating that that would come   after we'd figure that out after um now a lot of  the things were said today um I've seen a lot of   varying graphs on all the parking meetings we've  been to the first couple parking meetings showed   a deficit last year the next two showed that  we were positive $53,000 but now you're saying   that's not accurate so I'm just I don't see a lot  of transparency with the numbers as far as being   accurate um and we're just now talking about  the parking garage for the biomed Center like   you guys didn't have a plan for that we didn't  know how much it was going to cost we're just   now discussing that and it seems like this  parking plan is intended to pay for that and   that at the detriment of small business owners um  our customers we might see a drop in sales like   Mr Johnson was just uh describing and take  the hit uh to help pay for this thing when   um as far as I'm concerned you know I'd like  you guys to stay stay out of our way of making   money and um and let our businesses operate as  they have been I understand you have different   different plans and different things you need to  do but it sounds like a budget issue and it sounds   like there's a lot of questions as far as where  the money is coming from where it's going how much   is actually real what the charts actually say um  a lot of questions on that so um you from the car   park from Idaho yep okay I'm sorry we don't have  our okay that's good to know well I'm sorry we   don't have this all together yet quite for you and  we signed that contract and Troy bless your heart   you've been taking a beaten and I appreciate  all your hard work and uh yeah I just got a   lot of concerns uh from a small business owner  standpoint as you guys can imagine so we're just   scared and uh we'd like you to think of us maybe  first the people that have the most to lose as   far as business owners downtown like you said the  big guys can can deal with the paid parking we're   we're uh looking at a potential loss uh when it  comes to that so thank you for your time if you   have any questions I'm here if not you know  where to find me come have a beer sometime cheers hello I'm Tim Dugger my bride Karen  and I own 914 and 9924 West Douglas we also   live in Delano so thank you all for um your  comments everything I'll try to be succinct   got a lot of notes a lot was said tonight first  thing um thank you councilman Glascock a read your   editorial who pointed out that Oldtown downtown  Century 2 The Arena area deleno are all separate   parts of this plan with different parking needs  we cannot ignore that what needs to be done around   the arena is not what needs to be done in deleno  Delano is more like a small town people pull in   they Park they may go get a coffee you want them  to go to the the candle shop you want them to get   a beer and maybe go to hatman Jacks or Bungalow 29  that's the way deleno works from the plan that's   being presented here it sounds like this plan the  city and again don't I'm not talking personally to   anybody the city wants to take Delano's parking  which is working just fine what we have of it   and use it to pay for years of negligence and um  mismanagement by the city again I'm not pointing   out anybody this has been going on for at least  20 to 30 years from what I've heard bad contracts   deferred maintenance on things that should be  taken care of this why why do you want to come   grab our parking which is working just fine  because nothing says please don't come to our   business like sticking a parking meter in front  of it okay the other thing um I'm trying to keep   my time under garages lots and street parking are  different hopefully you get benefit from a garage   security uh safety from storms for your vehicle  vle um Lots you at least get security street   parking is simply to say it cost $400 to $600  in maintenance I don't know there's five parking   spots in front of my buildings I don't think those  white stripes cost that much a year okay again I   I looked at the budget picture up there parking  and Street Maintenance is part of the main city   budget still haven't figured out since most and  I'm not I don't have a specific most people in   witto come downtown at some point for something  whether it's a concert a sporting event the farm   and Art Market um Fireworks um Riverfest most  people make it down here why isn't on street   parking just simply part of the main budget so  that is another Point um I couldn't disagree   more than what Miss Ballard said op a is not the  only option that's ridiculous we've come up with   we we've showed flaws in option A I mean one of  them the car park wants to get nothing personal   they want to get I think if I memory servs  me correct 55% of what they bring in is that   can anybody confirm that how much was it do you  remember okay they're going to get paid very well   I have nothing wrong with that I have I'm all for  capitalism I'm a capitalist Pig myself why would   we pay somebody else to do what we should have  been doing as a city that doesn't really make   sense to me as Miss woo pointed out it sounds like  we should I mean option D doing what we're not   even doing option D we should be doing what we're  supposed to be doing so why aren't we um let's see so back down to I'm less than a minute so  I'm going to ask you all there are many options   before you none of us are against progress we  need to do something but this is not progress   this is regression telling people in Delano  that you don't want their business by sticking   a parking meter up in front of them that's  not that's not progress so I'm going to ask   if anything we do that you all vote for option D  with what mayor woo said let's actually enforce   it l use it l you know I I parked out here in the  parking lot and this is the last thing um for the   city I pulled the ticket when I leave I'll put  the ticket up scan it tap my credit card and pay   for my parking I probably got security and all  that I didn't have to download an app I didn't   have to know my license tag number I didn't  have to mess with any of that that's the way   parking should be for lots and garages on street  should simply be on street parking period thank you good evening uh my name is Heather  Schroeder and I'm the executive director   of downtown Witchita I'm joined here this evening  by several of my board and executive uh committee   members as well as fellow staff of uh of downtown  wiah um most of downtown businesses have not come   to these meetings you haven't heard from from  them um I've heard from a lot of them they're   not concerned you know when I ask them what do  you think what's what's going on are you coming   to the meetings they say h it's gonna happen it's  fine like we'll we'll adjust um I have heard some   complaints though um like you counselors I do get  many comments and complaints through the course   of my work um and so I wanted to share some of  those complaints specifically related to parking   a business on Broadway in Williams complains  to me that construction workers at the nearby   biomed Center construction site were parking  in the on Street spaces all day preventing her   lunch customers from parking near the restaurant  if we had meters that limit parking on street to   two hours that would have prevented this conflict  with a shared resource a business on Douglas AV   complained to me that residents along her Block  Park all day in front of her business preventing   customers from parking nearby to pick up their  frame mortars again meters that limit on street   parking to a maximum of two hours would prevent  this helping to share the limited resource of   on street parking and encourage turnover of those  spaces multiple businesses in Oldtown complain to   me about the cost of subsidizing parking for their  customers in accordance with the current payment   and lie of parking requirements in Oldtown these  businesses pay thousands of dollars a month to the   city for parking in Oldtown but those payments  don't guarantee them any actual spots for their   customers or for their employees they don't get  any reserved spaces in exchange for their payments   and because residents can park in those spaces too  there's no guarantee that the spaces are available   to the local businesses meanwhile the competitors  who run shops and entertainment venues just two   blocks away in another part of downtown outside  of the Oldtown boundaries do not have to pay this   monthly expense to subsidize neighborhood parking  the Oldtown businesses are at a competitive   disadvantage and their customers don't even  realize that the businesses they enjoy are bearing   this burden what we need is an equitable Downtown  parking system that doesn't discriminate based on   a a business's street address whether the business  is located in Oldtown the central business   district or deleno the only fair system is one  that applies universally across all businesses   in these districts the great thing about option  A is that it shifts the burden to the end user   of the parking rather than to the taxpayers or  to the small businesses located in our City's   core speaking of end users I'd like to highlight  the opportunity cost of in action on this topic   in addition to creating an un an unpredictable  landscape for our downtown businesses residents   and Property Owners continuing to delay a decision  on parking is losing potential Revenue to fix our   parking assets the parking plan was originally  set to take effect January 1st this would have   enabled our city to capture parking fees from  end users who are in town visiting for two major   events this spring the US figure skating national  championships and rounds one and two of the D NCAA   Men's Basketball Tournament average attendance at  the NCAA tournament games in 2022 was 20,000 fans   per game other events happening downtown in early  2025 uh that will not um be subject to our our   new parking requirements because they will not be  taking effect cir to is coming in February Monster   Jam in February Disney on Ice in March Dancing  with the Stars in March Harlem Globe Trotters   in March six musicals at Century 2 and 11 concerts  at the wave all before June there's it's not just   witchin attending these events having people from  other cities and towns visit Witchita and pay for   parking helps relieve us of that cost burden now  looking at a best case scenario we're looking at   at June 1st for implementation if we don't move  forward with this decision tonight how much other   parking fund balance will witch toas out on from  end users of paid parking will our parking assets   continue to languish right now we have four  finalists uh from urban planning firms across   the country in town um for project downtown  that's our new master plan that's kicking off   in January to lay out plans for downtown's growth  over the next 10 years how can we plan for growth   if we don't know how and where  people will park we need a plan thank you ccil member glassop Heather thank you for your  comments I have maybe a question or two thank you   for that um regarding uh downtown witw so I pulled  up downtown witw boundaries I clicked on parking   right now and downtown wit only highlights  parking in the downtown core as an in Oldtown   doesn't highlight in Delo you had mentioned that  you had a lot of businesses in downtown reach out   have you had any businesses in Del reach out and  support this they're not within the smid so no but   I that was gonna be my next question is where  the smid boundaries exclude deleno yes but the   downtown master plan boundaries go all the way  west to Sena and North to Murdoch okay and then   the last question regarding um the downtown PL as  well all four we all five plans now AB BC d and e   all include parking for the downtown core which is  covered by the smidth someway every single one so   are you excluding all other options and is a the  only one downtown wooda supporting or based on the   smid a b c d and e all cover the boundaries that  downtown witto represents at least in the self   District the only fiscally um feasible option is  option A so that's the one that we support thank you council member Johnston he I've  got some more questions for you too I'm sorry just just not to be picky but inter  Bank Arena doesn't hold 20,000 people you   said 20,000 people come down for the  game maybe per day I apologize that   was the NCAA average not the Interest Bank  NCAA average not for what you talking okay   much different much different um you also realize  that Oldtown parking has been $10 per spot years   for over 20 years are you familiar with that  I'm sorry what spaces are the Oldtown parking   for restaurants and things they've been  charged $20 or $10 a space it's been 750   a space 750 750 of space okay I thought it was  10 um 750 space and it's been over for 20 years   yeah um so obviously that that needs to be doubled  tripled to meet the cost cost recovery or whatever   or or put in meters have you heard from any  small businesses in Oldtown that are in favor   of can you name can you name them I don't think  that that would be appropriate they didn't give   me permission to do so but I'm happy to discuss  with you okay off mic heard from a lot of them   and and they haven't contacted me so maybe you  could ask them to contact me I haven't heard   from any of them they're concerned about people  not coming to their businesses Sir with all due   respect they were at the public meeting that  you left early I left early because I didn't   want to talk about my feelings all due respect  I went to two other meetings before that and uh   I heard the presentation a number of times  I'm very familiar with so thank you thank you Andre crane guiding pause uh ICT  representing the disability community   and the uh the blind Community here in witas um  and uh one of the things that uh concerns me is   uh we we don't have a lot of ADA uh parking  downtown for folks that are uh driving that   are in wheelchairs needs to be accessible  parking and uh to the question to the city   manager how many uh Ada parkings do we have  in uh parking garages marked parking garages in all parking garages to make sure that that that gets  addressed and that make sure that all Ada   uh parkings are been painted correctly  too that's my question thank you mayor   uh we don't have the exact number but the plan  talked about making sure that there was adequate   accessible parking in all of our parking  infrastructure that that is in across the recommendations uh hello excuse me hello my  name is Glenn Ferguson uh I'm the owner of   the high tone Lofts at 702 East 2 Street in  the Oldtown District um I appreciate the time   uh I certainly understand that there's a need to  relook at our parking uh agreements that we have   um one of the things that came out today that was  a little bit new for me was perhaps understanding   that part of the need for this parking plan is to  offset the cost of the biomed 500 uh spot garage   I I certainly would love to get a little more  detail about how much of the projected budget   going forward is a tributable to that cost  or supporting the cost of financing that um   I I wanted to share a couple concerns that I had  with the perspect of of the forecasted budget for   25 26 27 uh really more of a question it seems  to me like uh witto is really blessed with a lot   of development that's going on right now that's a  wonderful problem to have uh I'm kind of curious   if the budget uh the revenue projections for  parking have taken into account the number of   projects that are currently in development or  planning to be developed and therefore would be   joining for example the program that I'm involved  in which is the inl payment the inl parking   agreement I'm wondering how many other properties  or businesses aren't currently contributing   to revenues but are projected to contribute to  revenues starting in 2025 and 2026 uh certainly a   question I would ask you guys to look into and see  how much that moves the needle um and therefore   how much of an increase or paid parking do we need  to look at um my particular project is an example   I've heard a lot of people talk about the uh the  park one solution kind of a live work play idea   you have a spot where people are living they're  working they're going to restaurants they're going   to shops they're spending their money they're  parking once and they're not having to move around   as much great concept uh our project I think  fits very nicely into that we sit right next to   uh an office building with daytime workers we're  right next to WSU campuses we've got restaurants   and bars across the street fantastic um one of  the problems that I'm looking at is I'm seeing   that it appears to me like you're you're looking  with the monthly parking that my residents would   have to incur um that's sort of subsidizing and  disincentivizing people from actually living in   these neighborhoods that you're trying to grow and  Foster um and so I think as you're looking towards   how you're Distributing the costs I certainly  would have you take a look and and see does Us   increasing the monthly cost to somebody who wants  to live work and spend money in that neighborhood   is that disincentivizing them from living in  those areas we have certainly had residents   and prospective residents who voiced a real  concern about the cost that would be sh would be   shared with them we are currently paying that cost  through the payment Loop program for our residents   but with the proposed increases that are being  talked about in option a option b um that would   be something where we would probably have to  start passing that on to our residents and   asking them to pay and we certainly Wonder well  would they decide not to live in these communities   you're trying to grow and Foster because of  that additional financial burden thank you good evening mayor and council members pleasure  to see you this evening um my name is Susie Santo   and I represent visit Witchita located at  515 South Main Street our mission is to grow   the travel and tourism economy of our city  attract visitors and help witcha Thrive as   a vibrant and welcoming destination as you  consider implementing a parking management   system it's worth noting that all of the Midwest  cities that are in the top 100 populated cities   in the US already have a parking management system  in place so visitors are generally accustomed to   paying for parking in major destinations and  a system like this in witcha would be neither   surprising nor a deterrent for those exploring  our city if the council decides to proceed with   a parking management system we ask that you  design it with a visitors experience in mind   an accessible intuitive system is crucial for  making Witchita a convenient destination for all   we believe that a system with multiple payment  options would be vital catering to visitors of   all ages and Tech abilities this ensures that  everyone from families to senior Travelers   can quickly and easily navigate the parking  system additionally we encourage integrating   measures that contribute to a safe parking  environment clear signage lighting effective   monitoring can enhance both the perception and  reality of safety an aspect that significantly   impacts a visitors impression of our city  it's also essential to consider how parking   management impacts our local businesses A  system that balances the needs of visitors   and businesses can help downtown remain  a thriving attractive area for shopping   dining and entertainment ensuring reasonable  parking options and accessibility can foster   a positive inviting atmosphere encouraging  visitors to explore and to contribute to   our local economy ultimately as you evaluate  your next steps we at visit Witchita encourage   the council to keep the visitor experience  safety and business impact top of mind thank you good evening my name's Chris chher  par show I'm representing deleno United We   Are The Community Development Corporation in  deleno that is recognized by the city in the   deleno neighborhood plan as being the point  of contact for deleno and the city whenever   something comes up that is going to impact  us to date we have not heard one word from   the city about this we've not been reached out  to neither has the Business Association neither   has the neighborhood association I've tried  to attend as many of the public meetings as   I can and the one consistent theme I've heard  is that the majority of the public is greatly   opposed to the paid parking plan as has been  presented so far I've not seen opposition to   this since the city tried to fluoridate the  water the last meeting I attended was the   evening meeting at the advanced learning  library the meeting started at 5:30 p.m.   and the presentation presentation lasted 45  minutes for the next hour and 45 minutes dozens   of people spoke they asked questions and  offered feedback out of all of those people   who spoke one was in favor of this plan  all of the others understood the need for   the Deferred maintenance to be taken care of  but they offered other ideas and options for   funding so far I haven't seen any of those ideas  even considered any of what was presented tonight even without this Council acting on the  proposals we already have one business in   deleno that is Calling it Quits they said  this is the last straw this was reported   today in cake news this is the first Domino  of many that will fall if we Implement paid   parking the way it's been proposed maybe paid  parking is something that's needed in downtown   but it will destroy Oldtown and deleno and  deleno we've worked for over two decades   to become the small business incubator that we  are we've become what a lot of people aspire   to be and we want to extend that further to  the West with the new Douglas redesign and   streetscape that's going to be done in the next  few years how will that be a success if we have to   deal with paid parking that will just get tacked  onto that in addition to whatever is done along Douglas at this point I'm asking the  council to choose option D even though   it's worded very Draconian in The Proposal  that you or guys were given it's not the   end of the world to choose that at  this point because then we can take   a step back look at the options look at the  funding and say how do we move forward with   maintenance and not impact the community  as a whole be it Oldtown Delo or downtown um some of some of the concerns that I've heard  revolve around the small businesses and in deleno   that has been our biggest driver for the last  two and a half decades to try and grow deleno   when I first moved into the neighborhood  Douglas looked a little bit more like uh the   Design District with four lanes of traffic pillow  parking on each side people just zoomed through   there narrowed it down to one lane each Direction  put in a roundabout and all of a sudden people   started slowing down businesses popped up and  every year when we have something like safe   treat or holidays in deleno which is coming up  we have people that comment oh hey I never knew   that business was here and they end up getting a  new customer in the future after that with paid   parking that could go away uh when the arena was  built it was a $200 million project and not a bit   of parking other than a couple of small Lots right  around the foot of the building were included in   that plan we saw the negatives from that and when  the riverfront Stadium project came about a lot   of us in the neighborhood said hey what about  parking you're taking away a huge parking lot   in order to rebuild build the new stadium into  the new configuration that it is today and we   were told at that time it's not a problem people  can park and walk and it'll be great within four   years we've got a parking garage being built with  the mass transit center underneath it and now   we're looking at paid parking so were we lied to  then or are we being lied to now thank you council   member Glascock thank you mayor Christopher thank  you for what you do um in deleno specifically as   a resident of Delo myself uh regarding um your  work I'm ask just very direct questions regarding   your work with deleno United have you had one  business that's stated uh positive feedback from   not a single one as president of the neighbor  Association have you had one neighbor reach out   and support them not a single one as a member of  The Business Association have you had one person   reach out to you and support of this plan I'm  just a member of the association I'm not part of   the leadership group but I've not heard anybody  say anything positive about this plan um when I   was here last time I specifically asked the city  manager who in deleno they've spoke to and he just   vaguely said a few businesses I've asked around  when I was out organizing safe treat this year and   I have not found a single business that has been  in contact with the city about this it stated uh   option D would be your preference was your status  quo correct option e also excludes deleno allows   downtown to operate as Downtown Development  would want and then allows Oldtown to have a   separate op operating agreement do you feel that  would gain feed or gain support from businesses   and residents in Del it might gain support from  people in deleno but I fear the negative impact   of it going forward on downtown uh there's  already been some comments about the negative   impact of construction workers Downtown parking  in the the Stalls or people who live there um   if downtown feels that's necessary that's you know  downtown's issue I don't want to like impose my   beliefs on downtown but the problem I have with e  is it leaves open the option for someone to just   flip the switch and say now Delano's part of it  um this would be a question for the manager also   Troy just real fast regarding that have to come  back to the council before a separate parking agreement let's say two years from now we realized  that we want to implement some type of agreement   the models downtown that have to come back  from this body I would believe so thank you   Christopher thank you any others council member  John Sten Christopher thank you I yes I have a   question for you sure and first of all I I think  downtown needs parking you know I'm not sure about   Delano and Oldtown y downtown does let ask you  a question there there is a problem with such   as the the construction workers parking in front  of the of a restaurant down downtown yep there's   also could be a problem in deleno of people  parking right in front of the store and going   in and working and staying in that space for  6 eight hours yes what would you feel like if   there was only paid parking on the street section  not on the side streets I think any of the street   parking is what people object to the most uh lots  and parking garages people kind of understand   that those cost a little bit more to maintain  so therefore there might be a fee associated   with those um one of the things that I would  note is that years ago back when deleno started   its development process we used to have uh parking  enforcement we don't anymore in my travels around   town to and from work and things like that I've  repeatedly called 911 because of people parking   in bicycle Lanes I can tell you off the top of  my head four or five different places around town   where people regularly violate parking ordinances  and there's no enforc of it you call 911 you have   to wait for one of the regular police officers to  have an opportunity in their busy day to go ride   a parking ticket so so you wouldn't be in favor  of any parking deleno on Douglas to encourage   parking turnover I haven't heard any support  for any paid parking in Delo at all thank you y was a huge subject um just to give you a little  perspective uh my name's Doug Ballard I live in   Riverside and we've been there about 50 years  so I know what deleno used to look like I saw   it turn into ghost town as well as downtown wiah  in fact the company I work for we uh were major   contractor on this building uh Colorado Derby  building the Garvey buildings the the library   uh fourth national bank and then later on after  that uh they built Town East and the people and   doing business in or having businesses in uh uh  uh the core area they the band in the city so uh   my wife and I had a shop in the uh at 519 East  Douglas from 92 to 96 it was owned by the castle   bombs uh we were at the dedication of the original  nap Park so it's not because I know so much but I   just been around a long time and in that area so  um I I I would vote for uh a uh what has happened   I can tell you a little story uh I'm going to say  probably 93 they were wanting to expand to go to   diagonal parking on St Francis for sure I remember  that for sure and Sheldon Cayman was a c there   were Commissioners back then he came in our store  and he did to talk to us about it he did not want   to put to move the meters buy some extra meters  and then pay some somebody to collect dimes out of   those meters and he said we got a dollar chasing  a dime so he said he didn't want he didn't want   the expense he said let's let's just go to pre-  parking so that was 93 so I mean it's that's a lot   of Cycles most of you weren't even around then but  uh so we've been through that things are coming   back uh to answer Chris's uh problem about Delena  I've talked to I use I utilize many of those uh   businesses I've talked to them because I have a  pet peeve uh the problems that they're going to   have in deleno I can tell you for sure is the uh  the the landlords are charging too much for rent   uh that is a major cause nationally for bars and  restaurants going out of business so there's a   certain ratio if your rent is more than that you  will fail I don't care what you do you will fail   so that's a bigger problem and if somebody's  not going to go to deleno or whatever for 75   cents an hour then they're not going to go anyway  so I suggest a and charge everybody a little bit   for uh their coming downtown and then in a year or  two you're going to have a lot of data uh specific   each little and then you'll just adjust but  going back and and talking about what we   should or shouldn't have done every time there's  a business cycle I worked for over 50 years every   time there was a business cycle regardless of who  I work for the maintenance is the first thing to   go so we have these roller coasters and then  everybody knows that deerred maintenance later   on will cost even more money so it's it serves no  purpose to go back and say how come you didn't do   that well most of the time you there's no way of  recapturing all of the D all of the information   that you would need to to know about that nobody  would know except that shelden Cayman came in our   store and he said the meters cost too much and I  don't want to pay some kid to go along there and   get dimes out of them and pay him whatever you  would pay a year so that's how we got there I   mean you should see what down Town between wo  and the railroad tracks what it looked like in   1993 so here we are we're on the way back and pre  parking is not free as you can see so anyway thank you good evening mayor and city council I do want  to make sure I thank you all for hosting evening   meetings to encourage citizen participation  I even though it happened at the exact same   time that our neighborhood association meeting I  had a fleux capacitor handy and we made it work   I also appreciate both the phased approach  of option e and the delay due to the deleno   hub literally an hour and a half ago I'm still  getting questions from my neighbors about me ERS   being placed in front of their homes because  they're three blocks within three blocks away   from the stadium now the map doesn't show that but  there's verbiage elsewhere that says if you're in   within three blocks of one of our event venues  you know we need to have a parking meter there   and that's part of the reason why I think this  Bears further discussion down the road as our   Transit Hub is getting a little bit more uh  ready to roll earlier the mayor was concerned   that these plans might rob Peter to pay Paul  my neighbors are concerned that it could become   stealing from deleno streets in order to fund  downtown garages at the farmers market back in   August I I was on August 10th I encouraged our  assistant city manager to create a financial   partition at that time I called it a firewall  at the most recent Library meeting I asked for   data about our average per space revenue and  expenses for our approximately 2500 garage   spaces approximately 3,000 lot spaces and possibly  500 met spaces to this date I've not received that   information because we don't have the information  I say possibly because despite multiple claims at   at public parking meetings that many of the meters  have fallen into disrepair in the past several   years the most recent inventory count on metered  spaces on public streets was created in 2018 and   in 2019 as those who understand what a budget  is and how to stick to it how in the world can   we make data driven decisions without data the  last time we made a detailed count of the parking   Revenue receipts was in 2019 except for gross  revenues that are published in the annual report   due to years of parking mismanagement I call for  a 2023 audit of all revenue and expenses for each   mode of parking including lots on Street  spaces and garages after all what results   can we honestly expect when we continue to do the  same thing over and over and expect a different   outcome I don't want us to operate parking in  a deficit but where you are being asked to make   decisions without having accurate information  available that's not fair I'll stand for questions thank you council member glas thank you  I knowon back up here too um you are member of   Delo United correct member of deleno United as the  president of the deleno neighborhood association   so oured as a member of Delo United have you heard  from any businesses support no I have not as vice   president of the neighbor Association Chris is  uh treasure I'm current president you're current   president okay so as president of the neighbor  Association have you no as a person who attends   the deleno Business Association have you heard  from and favor no I have not okay I'll ask you   the same question I asked Christopher is regarding  plan e you had said that you think that would be   palatable palatable for businesses in deleno  where downtown could get what they want deleno   could get what they want old hound could have  a separating as well that is part of my concept   at the partitioning that I mentioned Troy is I  feel that if any dollar is raised in deleno on a   for example street parking space shouldn't that be  used to pay for yes some overhead but shouldn't be   reinvested in taking care of that parking space if  we end up with any parking lots in deleno that are   owned by the city every dollar raise there should  go back into maintaining that lot and we are soon   to have a parking garage I feel that those funds  should be used to pay for that parking garage and   I feel that any funds that are raised into Leno  and parking that across the river is a misuse of funds T the Purity um District One so I'm going to support the mayor's comments  looking for accountability on how we got to   some of these deficits um clearly there's  been mismanagement and it's been admitted   up here to mismanagement so where's  the where is the accountability for   mismanagement when are we going to start  holding folks accountable for how we got   here how are we going to prevent future  mismanagement like I said earlier what   got us here is not going to get us out  of it if I didn't say it earlier I meant to are all five of you from car park a  minut just one okay oh pH that made me   feel better I thought i' five of them were  here that would be a big deal all right so   car park LLC uh I went to their website their  about us information is pretty light I don't   know how long they've been in business  um a p a prior speaker mentioned the to   100 cities have parking plans on car Park's  website they're in 23 communities but I don't know   how many of those communities actually have they  have the government or M municipalities contract   I don't know that that's something you might want  to know and might ask well why why is she bringing   up those questions well could we be selecting  a vendor that's not good for us in the future   could this be a symptom of more mismanagement  how do we do you know how we even ended up   with car park they're just in 23 communities  so they're not a top player in the top 100 cities all right I'm going to change topics here  away from mismanagement so I have attended uh at   least three of the parking uh plan meetings um my  concerns at those meetings and here at the council   was concerns about how this new plan is going to  impact um our citizens are disadvantaged citizens   folks who don't have cell phones folks who don't  have bank accounts I even had some statistic to   support that um what about people who don't read  English when I went to car Parks website and they   have a place where you can look at disputes and  inner information it's all in English I did a   search on the website for espanol nothing comes up  I did a search for Vietnamese nothing comes up so   I don't know that it's going to be very friendly  to um our citizens and when we've had complaints   about just parking here at City Hall before I can  tell you now I think I was told that this parking   lot is managed by car park they are in violation  of the section of the contract that I read now   it's not the most current one I read the one  that was attached to the June agenda but they're   supposed to restrict access access or entrance  to full lots and it came up I mean that doesn't   happen right that happened to me I came in the lot  was full I had to go out and then park over here   and I've seen that happen two or three times and  back in October you tasked the city manager with   getting back with you and he said it would happen  in a month with how all these things are going to   be resolved and I don't know if that's happened  but they're not complying with the agreement   that's one thing um other concerns I have  with the agreement is customer service or   customer section is very customer service section  is very light um it mentions employee training um   customer service and amenities and I think that  might be referencing how they'll help jump your   car or maybe help with a flat tire and customer  dispute uh uh complaint dispute resolution but   but what it doesn't require is for them to seek  customer or to do customer surveys how are you   going to know if they're doing a great job or if  you're if they're doing good customer service if   you don't mandate them to do surveys and on  top of that you know at the end they're going   to according to the contract they're going to  support uh submit a performance self-evaluation   right so they're going to evaluate themselves  uh since that um performance EV evaluation to   the city and ask for a bonus of 1 half or 1% of  gross revenue that's up to you all to give or I   don't know who makes that decision but that's  in the contract right so a little self-serving   um other concerns oh shoot um there's no  racial or cultural sensitivity training in   their training list I'll put the rest of my  comments in an email to all of you thank you I almost said good morning mayor but it's good  night mayor uh or good evening I should say   mayor and City Council Members manager uh Jeff  flure president of the Great Wall partnership   505 East Douglas Avenue certainly appreciate  the opportunity to come before you and say   in support of a working Management program for  downtown while a lot of the conversation is about   today it seems like honestly a lot of what we're  talking about tonight also shapes what we'll be   capable of accomplishing in the future uh one  of the things that has been stated tonight is   that there's been a lot of work on this downtown  and I would say the adjoining areas as well with   deleno uh Douglas design area it's all it's all  the part for the for the citizen they don't have   necessarily lines they just see a downtown they  see an epicenter of our community uh they want to   enjoy it they want to experience it they want  to have new opportunities before them with it   and certainly I would tell you that the vision I  believe remains that we are building a downtown   that is distinctive it's authentic uh we want it  to be a destination uh it needs to help us now   we know more than ever it needs to be a place that  helps us with our talent how do we retain them all   of them because we need everybody to stay not only  in witch but the region but also at attracting a   talent beyond our state boundaries and it's not  only now just North America attracting a talent   it's globally so we have to be thoughtful of how  is it we create a city center that is vibrant it   is growing and yes we're going to have things  that we have to work through to get to those   places we also need a downtown that recaptures  its density we heard about the downtown of a ago   where it did have density you didn't have the  mass parking lots across downtown if you get   off of Douglas go south or north it's a sea of  parking lots that does not create viability and   so part of what we want to do is make sure we  build a downtown that's bigger than itself and   actually it's bigger than who we are but it  actually helps us sell not only this region   but our state as the largest city in the state of  Kansas that should be a goal as well the parking   management system we've heard it it doesn't work  uh it's ineffective it it's not up to the today   standards if I go into a city if you go into a  city you have the really I think the expectation   in an urban environment to pull in pull out an  appp buy your parking if you're in a restaurant or   if you're in a bar and you decide to stay longer  you can go to that app and increase the parking   that Revenue goes into create an ecosystem  that people want to walk in because you have   the revenue to be able to make sure your streets  are clean you do have the revenue that helps you   doesn't do all of it but a part of the public  sectors actually part of the role you play in   economic development is infrastructure structure  and part of that is garages and so how is it that   we build them if we don't have over new streams  to do that and so I think with us looking at the   economics of everything what is the path that we  get there on it's not perfect but it's one that   gets us on a trajectory that helps us to get to  a revenue stream that helps us break even and I   agree I think technology and everything needs to  be a part of it but we've got to start we've got   to move forward because the thing is this these  parking lots that are out here in this downtown   that's not their highest and best use their  highest and best use is a biomedical campus   that now is not just a single block but is now  two blocks and that was a great investment that   you made with us so that's a long-term view  of of of a business and so uh I think you'll   find with us that we will we'll certainly give  a courtesy notice when we think one is due and   we'll certainly write one when one is due but  we'll we'll hear out the complaint we'll we'll   adjudicate it you know we'll we'll void it if if  if necessary sorry is a majority of your profits   from this coming from user system or do you also  profit from writing tickets I don't profit from   writing a ticket a ticket solely goes to the city  so what when we put the budget together we put in   what I'd call a management fee that we cover our  overhead and our profit and that's it no dollar   from tickets is going there's no incentive on  tickets I we don't do that any that's something   I won't do thank you glad to hear that um last  question I have uh is every individual that works   for the city is held to our ethics policy that  be be open to your employees also being held our   ethics policy as well internal policies regard  I'd be open to it I'd have to see what it says   but I certainly certainly would entertain it okay  you bet thank you again for allowing us to ask you   some questions as well I do have one in particular  to and I did ask it in my um list of questions but   it's more appropriate for you while the lot is  currently being managed by um sentury 2 through   car park can you please give us an idea if cost  recovery is actually being achieved at the sentury   2 surface lot I want to make sure I understand the  question because all we do is uh charge them for   the enforcement so I don't know how much revenue  they make I don't have any any visibility to that yeah yeah so to answer your cost answer your  question on cost recovery the revenue that is   generated in the century 2 Lots goes back to  ASM and is an offset to um the payments that   are made to ASM to provide that service so as far  as cost recovery is concerned um I'd have to kind   of do some more sort of cost benefit analysis  because it introduces an element of sort of   the payment that we're making to ASM in exchange  for sort of the credit they're receiving and the   revenues that they receive kind of introduces  a variable I I just don't have in any of our   other systems follow-up question to you would  be um I know that it was alluded to by several   individuals um here and also at some of the  public meetings are you I know that the $400   is an average but are you able to show the cost to  maintain just one stall in a parking garage cost   to maintain just one stall in a surface lot  and cost to maintain just one on Street Park   spot so I mean I could give you some really broad  averages right because there's so many different   things to take into consideration right an on  Street space that gets more utilized than another   space is going to see more maintenance associated  with it right and so even from one off on Street   space to another on Street space those numbers are  going to be wildly different right uh same with   uh a a structured space right a structured space  in an older garage is going to be more expensive   to maintain than uh a space in a newer garage  right and so it's it will be we'll be more than   happy to kind of share some really broad ranges I  think um I alluded to earlier I've I've seen some   averages of some sort of on street and surface  spaces that don't get maintained very often you   might see something in the 35 to $5 a space  a year right and more heavily trafficked more   heavily utilized uh so you might see something  again in a$3 to $400 per space because that year   they resurfaced the parking lot resurfacing a  mill in overlay of a parking lot is not cheap   right um and then obviously same with parking  structure I can give you a range right but to   just pinpoint and say this is the cost of what  it maintains on on Street this is what it cost um   would just be sort of a  snapshot given a a whole slew of variables thank you yep I have no further  questions for carp car park and I don't see   any further ones from thank you council members we  now have brought it back to the bench for council   members to make comments or move anything so  that staff can uh move forward with the direction   council member M glas thank you this will be my  last comments of the night regarding parking um   I just wrote down a couple notes um I'm leaning  more towards option e um is where my head is at   right now I think it addresses um downtown witta  I know it may not be perfect what they want but IT   addresses paid parking in downtown and upgrading  our technology in downtown IT addresses Oldtown in   a way that the Oldtown Association I think can be  comfortable with it addresses deleno and a lot of   the concerns I've heard from businesses in deleno  I have talked to more than a dozen businesses in   Delo not heard one in favor um I live in deleno I  lived in downtown I work downtown I go to church   Downtown I run downtown I'm probably using this  system more more than most um I counted how many   times I went to different businesses downtown  this week and it was uh or last week it was 25 in   terms of how many engagements I had at different  things downtown moving around and so I want to see   if there's a way that we could break even with  e um and or how close we can get to break even   that also doesn't make it cost prohibitive for  individuals um I'm thankful for the suggestion   that looks at the three distinct districts but  figure out how that still plays into the parking   fund I feel ABC and a majority of a b c and e uses  deleno to subsidize the rest of the system I don't   want Delo being used to prop up the rest of the  system in terms of the funds being used because   when you look at when you remove deleno that's the  loss of Revenue out of all of the plane so that's   the only change from ABC d and e and then you see  the loss and so I think that there's a tell that   we're making money in deleno and that we're trying  to use that to cover some of the costs in downtown   and Oldtown and deferred maintenance as well um  I'm glad that this body listened to feedback and   I think this shows um this is probably the most  robust engagement that I've seen from the bench   from individuals and I think e is a compromise um  hearing feedback from citizens hearing feedback   from this bench hearing feedback from downtown  witto hearing feedback from deleno I don't think   anybody is fully happy with it I think that's  probably good governance when not everybody is   fully happy with it and so I'm thankful for the  work that staff has done I think you probably put   in more hours on this than you expected um and  so I also want to thank you for taking my fears   regarding enforcement in consideration that's why  I voted against this in June and so I moved from   voting against this in June to being open to  voting for some type of enforcement plan and   I thank car park for answering uh the questions  I had regarding enforcement because that's my   core function I don't believe that um there is  anything as freed parking you're paying for it   in some way and um my concern was enforcement so  I appreciate you addressing those questions and   you Troy taking those seriously as well so that  is all the comments I have council member Johnson   thanks mayor um I'm taking a different approach I  support option A and um I think the research and   work that we have done shows where option A is the  most beneficial uh to everyone when we travel we   have consistent systems some of us were just in  Tampa I intentionally got out walked around Tampa   I didn't rent a car but I went around and looked  and I took a few pictures as well of their kiosk   that they have in Tampa it was the same in ebore  as it was in another part of Tampa and that to   me would be the equivalent of a deleno an Oldtown  a downtown they had different parts of around the   convention center and they all had the same type  of paid parking um I think that those who visit   witch would want to see some form of consistency  it would make it easier for him put the city of   wital um in the best financial position to  manage parking we continue to talk about the   paid piece what I've continued to talk about is  the management piece and how again we look at   turnover car park answer one of the questions  about the concerns of um the social media um   folks saying that they won't go to Oldtown or  go downtown also at every evening meeting I've   yet to see a full one with standing room only  with people saying they absolutely will not go   downtown that's all been social media tonight is a  great example probably a third of this room people   here um if that was the case I think we would  we would had a lot more longer public comment   we'd have more people here I think option A is the  best option for us for this Council um I not that   I'm counting down uh I won't be here uh too much  longer option e is something that you're going   to have to continue to deal with over the next  few years you're going to have um a lot of folks   that continue to say that they don't want to see  paid parking that management may not be a thing   and that this is only some form of um I think the  gentleman said earlier a money grab option e will   continue that conversation going forward option  A gets your plan in place to get you ready to   address anything coming from biomed to any other  development that may come downtown your system's   there you then can adjust your system um but  option e is going to continue this conversation   over several years um you'll be back at another  night meeting having the same discussion you'll   have some of it implemented but you'll have other  folks saying that you need to go back to what was   originally option D so I would say get the system  in place and up and running um if option e is a   we we have to do that I guess that's okay but  I think we should have consistency downtown   I think we should put ourselves in the best  financial situation to deal with the Deferred   maintenance the management of it and going forward  also the equipment is key um unlike my colleague   council member hois I don't always carry cash and  coin so I have a card having an inclusive system   that can take every form of payment I think is  the best thing to do and we don't have that right   now we have outdated coin machines that sometimes  your quarters get stuck I've seen that happen one   time um but I think going forward option A is the  best option for all of us um for me council member   Johnston thank you mayor I think we all agree  something needs to be done I don't think that's   that's a question it's just what it is and do we  group everything together and call it all the same   and do it all the same or do we do it individually  um I disagree I think d know it's very different   than downtown um I think Oldtown is very different  than downtown and maybe eventually we end up with   paid parking and all of them not saying I'm not  against that but I'm against just ripping the   Band-Aid off and and forcing it on people I've  heard from a lot of people in District 5 uh who   don't want to rip the Band-Aid off don't want  to do it um also heard from a lot of people in D   and Oldtown that think it's going to drive away  business I know you say it doesn't but they think   it's going to and maybe that's real maybe it's  not real but if we can find a way to ease into   it I think we'd be a lot better off um we need to  get we need to find a way to get revenue from out   of town visitors we think about Tampa and other  towns like that when I go to other towns I don't   have a problem with it either know what and I  people come here don't have a problem with it   you know but do people from West witto and East  witchta have a problem with it you know seems   like they do um we need to find out how to we need  to find ways to get revenue from Andover Derby ma   yed people that use our streets use our facilities  and don't pay for it they that maybe in in sales   tax a little bit but but not in property taxes  they don't they don't pay for it so we do need   to find ways to to revenue from those communities  too to help pay for services that they they are   using but I would I would fa favor some kind  of phased in approach um that's what I've heard   from my constituents that's what I've heard from  businesses in both those areas in deleno and and   Oldtown and uh do need a plan I agree with that  don't want to rip the Band-Aid off Stick it to   them thank you council member Tuttle thank you and  thank you to the G depart partnership and all the   speakers who are here with us today and thanks for  the folks who are hanging tight for future agenda   items we appreciate your patience but certainly  important work for the city um I think everybody   agrees we have to do something so in my opinion  BC and D are not an option um especially D it's   just the status quo and we know right now that's  not working um I've said every single one of these   meetings we have to plan for growth of our core  we're investing in our downtown and this is just   one other way that we need to make an investment  and then with the biomed Center coming um I'm   vacillating a little bit um I like a because it  provides the most Financial you know resources   for us to be able to address deferred maintenance  and then if we have to have future parking needs   with the biom center coming but one thing that  hasn't really been discussed and I think since   we're not actually voting on an option tonight and  just kind of giving staff some Direction when it   comes to delayo I am curious about the Hub and we  haven't had that conversation of you know do we   need what what does that mean um and so I guess  I'd like just a little bit more information on   on what those projections are um are we charging  for the Hub if we are how much and how much will   that go in and if that's already been mentioned  and I missed it I'm sorry um try and I can have a   sidebar conversation but um you know I'm trying  to think of this in in in multiple different   ways I do agree deleno and Oldtown are a little  bit different but if you start splitting up the   baby in too many pieces then you know what isn't  different and you can you can cause a bigger mess   so um but in right now A and maybe a little bit  of e are the options that I'd be leaning toward   council member ho Heisel thank you mayor uh  first off I'd like to um just seed some time   to vice mayor Ballard she'd wish to speak but  she's it's hard for her to hit the button right   now and then uh come back and make my comments  after she has a chance to talk go ahead Maggie   thank you council member hoisel thank you mayor  I just thought a couple comments um I just wanted   to say I do appreciate the hybrid approach in  regards to paying um potentially having a kiosk   the app and the QR code um also I have seven  emails in hand from deleno businesses that   are not opposed to um talking about parking  and especially enforcing the two-hour parking   that we currently have um they would be really  happy about doing that so um I just wanted to   make sure that um I shared that information um  I appre apprciate the gentleman from car park   talking about um there's no incentives for giving  tickets I know that has been um a concern that   I've heard and seen on social media and I also  have a question for my colleagues I'm curious   if or how you feel about seeing the potential CID  on your ticket how that's different than paying   at the meter I mean we're still paying both  ways um I'm just curious what your thoughts   thoughts are on that because essentially we  are still paying a fee and how you feel about that all right so uh gets back to me and my  comments um uh first uh this is all over all   over the place seems like we have kind of a  a direction some of us want to go this would   have been a great time to have some rank Choice  building up here I think um yeah I I'm a big old   right now and that's because I don't feel like  we are actually addressing um the problems the   underlying problems here the structural problems  which is the parking garages uh we have one   parking garage that's $10 million in deferred  maintenance um I do appreciate this I was against   this uh from the beginning but um also recognizing  that we do have issues that we have to address   here um if we do move in a direction to build some  consensus I think I'm more on um option e um just   again just giving us that Head Start um man I'd  hate to be the guy sitting in the seat and two   years when they they have to readjust this again  but um yeah just again my my two cents here I just   I don't see this addressing the $18 million in  debt that we are going to be bringing on this and   um that we have with the parking garages currently  I support the parking garage for the WSU biomed   Center I think that's our responsibility our hand  in um completing the WSU KU biomed campus which   is instrumental in addressing the mental health  issues the um a lot of the homeless issues that   we have and just the the healthc care desert  that we have right now so I'm looking for um   other options on how to pay that in the future  and get that project off the ground so um those   would be the two ways that I would lean as far  as preference here you point of clarification   did you say option D and then option e if I was  doing rank Choice yes thank you thank you council   member Johnson thanks mayor um to answer Vice  mayor's question for me uh I would say paying   1% is more than 75 cents most on most bills so  I'd still be in favor of plan a on that um I   just I forgot to make one point uh the mayor had  brought this up and it got me thinking so um have   as long time ago the late 1900s councils may not  have prioritized deferred maintenance um and it   got me thinking about this parking issue that we  have so we're we're now at a position to where   we're either going to do something and address  it or we're not and the thing that addresses   most of it is option A or if we choose option e  there may be future councils that will look back   and say we didn't do enough to address it and  why didn't we prioritize actually taking care   of the problem which would be option A so that  was the one comment I forgot to put out there   but I think we're in that same situation right  now with parking are we going to do something   about it and really address it or are we  going to do a little bit hope that in the   future something happens and maybe in 2050 a  council is like hey maybe we can do something now council member Johnston uh I also want  to address uh Vice mayor's Ballard's concern   and I don't want to go to lunch with you Council  M Johnson because uh you'd have to have a $100   ticket uh for a $1 or $75 ticket for 75 when I  go to lunch I don't spend $75 I don't drink beer   so there's your answer right there but I don't  think people notice it on their bill at all um   go to Green's place and buy those multitude of  stores I don't think anybody NOS is at that one   per on there so except for me I look at  my ticket um the the other thing is that   I I just I just think that we really need to  think about this which we are but we really I'm   reframe this if if I have a business lunch and I  go I have to pay for parking out of my my pocket   if it's on a CID it comes out of the business's  pocket deductible so there there's a a drastic   difference there what pocket it comes out  of um I I told you I'm Thrifty so it does   make a difference to me so um I appreciate the  conversation very much that's it so I feel like no   one else needs wants to speak anymore and Council  uh vice mayor Ballard already spoke this is really   a receiveing file and give direction to staff so  I'm going to summarize I think what I'm hearing   from six council members uh two are definitely  in favor of a um with a possible third uh person   that also thinks a could be a possibility  along with e then you have one for sure   um for d as I mentioned it earlier but I'll give  caveats to that council member hoisel said uh he's   leaning towards D or E and then we have e which  has two for sure um I believe that's council   member um Glascock and council member Johnston  as e and then the two possible for E would still   be council member Tuttle and possibly council  member hoisel am I getting the summary correct   right now um I'm going to defend D for just one  moment um it's not because I don't believe that   we need to do something the can has be the can  has been kicked down the road for 15 years and   this is the council that now is looking at this  can and says we are the leaders of this community   and we need to do something something about it  I've always said that there's no such thing as   free I am a proud product of public schools I  got a quote free public school education but   I know it was not free someone paid for it and  those were grateful taxpayers who invested in   my education in the early 90s and early 2000s  and I'm really appreciative of that quote free   education um so when I say I'm in favor of D it's  because of the lack of transparency that has been   shown to our community I I believe that as your  leader that you elected me to ask the questions   of staff so that we have the best information and  all the information so that then we can make an   informed decision but but when we are lacking  full information and all of the aspects to   make the right decision I am not comfortable with  making a decision that doesn't take all of those   um into consideration so I ask a lot of questions  and I know that um I've written them down so it's   an email format and then I asked them in person  so that Community can hear them but it bothers me   a lot that deferred maintenance of $18 million  has not been a priority to talk about that is   part of being fiscally responsible is making  sure that we maintain what we have before we   build something new we have to make sure that  what we have currently we're taken care of   while I'm very grateful that the biomed Center  is moving forward I also wanted Community to know   that there was something that we did agree upon  and that was the previous Council and still this   council is in favor of biomedical Center but that  biomed Center also comes with a parking commitment   that's part of transparency and I don't believe  a lot of individuals in our community knew knew   that we also had this commitment that possibly  could be upwards or continues to uh be more than   the $19 million for the 500 parking spaces so in  total we have $18 million in deferred maintenance   we have a $19 million parking garage that has yet  to be built that's $37 million that is not in any   of the budgets that we as a council approved in  August that concerns me and that's why I believe   that despite uh not having full consensus on  the directions for staff it looks like A&E   are options that uh staff will now have to keep  working towards I challenge staff to also look   at D and while we currently have a system what  are we doing with that system to still make sure   that we're also recovering because there is still  parking going on downtown there is still parking   going on in Oldtown there is still parking going  on in deleno right now so I believe that we still   need to make sure that even though the system is  not fully implemented there are areas where we a   have to improve upon but B recognize that yes we  as a city maybe did not take those contracts into   full account account did not enforce them fully  what can we do right now to make sure that that   is actually happening so it looks like a d and  e really A and E have the most votes um and my   single D vote U for the moment uh lacks uh enough  for a consensus so I see now more council members   wanting to speak so council member glas thank you  um I don't think we probably need to take binding   action but I don't think we can get to four  for a and I just based on this I don't want to   necessarily waste staff's time to invest a I think  E's the only one that we can get to four on unless   there's I mean other thoughts from Council people  I don't think we can get further than that council   member Johnson thanks mayor um I would I would  just say in this situation we should just vote   on the option um cuz I'm not in support of e first  and if we have a two two two and one might as well   just vote and put some numbers behind something um  I would say I don't I don't know if staff is going   to do work on D but um I guess my only concern  with that is well two concerns one we're already   in contract with car park and we keep delaying  when we're actually going to get into some parking   plan which means we're paying the fee right now  so we probably should do something and I don't   think we should continue to delay that um um but  option D my concern with really looking into to   that or really going down that path is there's  no management there and that's really the the   concern I hear from from businesses because we're  not managing right now we've got one person doing   that and if we could get into um an actual plan  again a A or e but my preference is a then we get   into having car park not only with equipment but  actually managing this and having folks out there   making sure that um the parking is managed so I  I don't know if we were going down the path of D   but I would really like us to vote on an A or E  and kind of see where we're at so we can get to   work council member Tuttle uh completely agree  with everything that my colleague said and and   I'm not sure that we shouldn't still pursue a we  may be able to get there um I and I know some of   us are kind of Torn Between A and E so um I think  those are the two most probably viable options at   this point so thank you council member Johnston  you know this is way past my bedtime you know that   um I I realize we are probably paying car park  now I I I think I think everyone agrees that I   hope may maybe everybody agrees that we could get  four votes for putting in paid parking in downtown   right now around the arena Arena area downtown  biomed I think we can get there right now just   go ahead and do that um and then talk about the  rest see see where we can go council member hoisel   thank you mayor um just curious this I mean this  is about giving a Direction so if the majority   of the body is leaning towards a or e um would it  benefit the members who that's their first choice   maybe indicating where the the wiggle room where  the compromise is between the two cuz it sounds   like maybe some of the people who are looking  at e they're more concerned with uh partitioning   downtown making sure that the deleno plan is a  little different than um the downtown plan which   is different than the Oldtown plan where a groups  it all together I think maybe that's a a point of   disagreement between the two options there so um  I'm just curious about that and also what what   would the vote look like would it be again kind  of a pseudo rank choice or would we go through and   just vote on it individually and keep going until  we finally get four votes to support one plan so   just curious on that one flip a coin council  member Glascock thank you um I my stipulation   with a is deleno being included in it so that's  why I would support e because it excludes steno   from that um regarding your second question I  think we vote tonight um I think e shows that   could get more than four votes a I we could vote  on that and see if it gets more than V four votes   um but I also agree with councilman Johnson that  um right now I think there's will from this body   to be able to implement paid parking downtown  at least a majority I also we've talked about   this since 2009 we' had public discussions since  August I think we should make a decision tonight city manager mayor I I don't want to put words in  your mouth I I'm not sure that I interpret your   comments as you like d because D just perpetuates  the problem that you've expressed and that is that   we're not going to have Revenue to address some  of the core issues that have been ignored in the   past that councils have not raised rates for many  of the reasons you heard tonight and that's put   us further and further behind in terms of our  financial position what I'm hearing from you   is you want a financial plan that shows how are  we going to address that similar what we had to   do with streets and other infrastructure where  there was a pattern of disinvestment for a long   period of time so you want to know how we going to  take care of the 18 million you want to know about   the proforma so those that goes without saying  on any of these options whether it's a or E if   we're going that direction we have to bring back  to you the finances because right now e as it's   structured isn't workable because it has $3 an  hour rate in it and it assumes a certain amount   of services so you know I think moving the parking  meters up determining if that's the direction you   went we we're going to have to right siiz that um  the only one you don't have to do that with is a   because a addresses some of the financial issues  you're talking about as well but I'm not sure that   it's I I don't want to misinterpret what you're  saying but I'm what I'm hearing are Financial   concerns not necessarily that what we Implement  and unfortunately D doesn't get us anywhere near   what we need um for the finances so D is doing  nothing D is doing nothing but we're also not   enforcing right now so that is a problem right I  would I would say that D even d right now which is   currently supposed to be executed has not been  fully done so for me D is just a consideration   for community that has said well you guys have  not been fiscally responsible over the last 15   years not putting money into deferred maintenance  therefore I don't trust you city in putting now a   new management system forward so for me D is  listening to the community and Community is   telling me don't do anything yet because you're  not you haven't done what you you were supposed   to do which is make sure that the maintenance  of the assets are being taken care of so I'm a   little again mindful that the numbers according  to what Troy has presented shows yes with d and   doing nothing over the next three years though  it does show that it goes black it doesn't show   a deficit um and so I am cognizant that people  just want to know if we don't do anything because   I don't believe that everyone in our community  believes that the management system is not working   I believe that a lot of people downtown will  say yes the management system is not working   but east side west side of this community has  not fully said the management of parking is not   working right now until we can get full consensus  on that I'm not going to move forward with either   a or E right now I'm I'm again mindful that  fiscal responsibility has not been the top   priority so that's just one person and again I'm  just one of seven council member Johnson thanks   mayor um I would prefer not to kick this can down  the road for future councils so I would move that   staff um work on implementation strategy for  plan a for the Downtown parking and Mobility plan second motion and a second and we have  council member Tuttle on the board thank you   and this is a question maybe for legal for  Jennifer um the way I interpret the recommend   the staff's recommended action it says that the  city council provide feedback on an inflamation   strategy it doesn't say that we actually vote on  an implementation strategy and we have a polic   that says if something's not on the agenda  the Thursday prior to the meeting on Tuesday   it cannot be an actionable item so um I appreciate  wanting to move forward so that would be my first   question for legal my second question for legal  is if I'm wrong which I often am and we can vote   on an option that means that we're asking staff  to look at a but let's say we wanted a 2.0 or you   know a with modifications that could still happen  so first of all can we actually vote on an option   tonight and then it doesn't mean that it  has to look exactly like it's presented   today Jennifer what say you thank you thank  you in my opinion yes you may vote on it ton I'm sorry I didn't answer the second  part of your question yeah so an option has   been presented for option A and it's for Bob Troy  Jennifer anyone it could still have modifications   correct yes because I my question about the Hub  still hasn't been answer yes you know so I mean   I I want to look at we're building a brand new  piece of infrastructure that's specifically for   multimodal in for parking and how is it going  to impact aeno but then the rest of downtown   because of the stadium and so I just want to make  sure that that is is being considered um and and   it may change things and may decide you know we  need a little less here and a little more there   or whatever so um yes the answer is it can be  modified okay thank you council member glass talk   point of clarification for councilman Johnson  then given legal's interpretation is your motion   still to direct staff to come back with plan  a for us or is it to implement plan a provide   a plan of implementation strategy for plan a  for Downtown parking and Mobility management plan so we have a motion by council  member Johnson and a second by Vice   mayor Ballard I see no further  comments Madame clerk please open the role I motion fails 4 to three mayor with a motion um I move that  the city council um I'm trying to figure   out how to word this as eloquently as  Johnson did uh move forward with plan   e um and direct staff to provide  an implementation and operate or   provide an implementation strategy for Downtown  parking Mobility management plan with e is the focus I'll second that we have a motion by Council  we have a motion by council member Glascock and a   second by council member Johnston uh com beginning  with council member Johnson thanks mayor um with   this again same concerns I just want to voice it  this does bring this conversation back up in a   few years around this I personally don't feel and  I've been wrong before council member Tuttle can   tell you I don't feel that sentiment is going to  change much on this so this will be a um another   struggle for a future Council I also want to note  that um forgot the slide number I think the rates   hourly rates are a little higher in this one so  it's more than the 75 cents an hour and if we   vote on that people should know that we're going  from 75 cents an hour to is it $2 $3 when I was in   Tampa it was $2 an hour so we will'll be higher  than Tampa so I just want to note that if we do   go down the path of option e higher hourly rate it  does remove one part of the downtown outlined area   um and this comes back in a few years so that is a  future challenge council member Tuttle I like the   financial um situation better in a I think it gets  us there I do think at some point we still have to   and some people have said kind of RI the Band-Aid  off you know there isn't a community our size   probably out there that doesn't have some kind  of management system and none of their downtowns   have collapsed so I'm not worried about that part  at all I still have a couple questions questions   about the Hub and to let know um and so I did not  come into this meeting this evening thinking we   were going to vote on a strategy um and so um  you know I'm I'm still considering options but   there are a few other questions that I think need  need to for me to be answered before we can make   a good decision new information's been thrown  around this evening different numbers that we   want to make sure Financial considerations that  we want to make sure the the community is clear   on um what we can do you know what absolutely  has to be done versus there may be $18 million   in delayed maintenance but that doesn't mean it  has to happen all right now right and if we're   projecting up for the next three years how can we  we look at that we don't have a clear contract or   understanding yet with WSU in my understanding  that there's still some negotiation of do they   need a structure do they need 500 spots is that  maybe too many can trans and assist with it so   that's why I'm I'm not one to delay things I know  we need to to take action our community is waiting   on it we've been doing this for way too long but  I just think there's a few key questions that I   don't have the answer to in my head regarding this  option as well thank you council member Glascock   I'll slightly adjust my motion hopefully to make  council member tutle um I think answer a few of   her questions moving forward and then um if any  colleagues have future questions so recommended   that we provide that this body provide Direction  on item e on the implementation strategy for   Downtown parking Mobility management plan uh for  further conversation or further vote that we can   get some of those questions answered that it's  not a up or down hey we're doing e as presented   today but we can e with maybe a few adjustments to  figure out how we can get the numbers to work to   address maybe Council uh members tuttles concerns  but we're moving forward with plan e knowing that   there may be a few adjustments so Jennifer is that  motion suffice that I made or do I need to change   it sufficient okay council member John Sten yeah  I I'll second that I think it just invites more   uh conversation also invites the possibility of  uh implementing paid parking for downtown right   now so we can get start getting that revenue on  Downtown parking uh nobody's going to park and   Delan on and walk over to Oldtown or to downtown  so I think I think we should be getting that   money as soon as we as soon as we can and put car  park to work to answer your question Council Min   Johnson um it does kick it down the road but it  also gives us more data of how it's going to work   gives more data on how car park works it gives us  gives the customer to get used to it in a downtown   setting at least downtown say to get used to it  maybe they come back in a couple years say hey   that's not so bad you know wasn't it was it was  pretty good it wasn't so bad you know then then   we can implement it so instead of just ripping the  Band-Aid off so that that's what I would say to that I failed to ask one specific question for  e um the map shows the lot directly south of   wave venue as a paid parking lot I do believe  that is not a city of Witchita parking lot can   someone please address that yes mayor you're  correct that is owned by the county um we had   some initial discussions with the county about  whether they want us to manage it they never   made a determination so that would not be part  of e at this point or any of the options maybe   sometime in the future if the county wanted to  move in that direction so as of right now the map   is incorrectly shown correct because that would be  a carve out that is correct yes thank you so the   lot directly south of the wave would not be paid  parking according to option e that's correct thank   you so we have a motion and a second any further  discussion I see none Madame clerk please open the role this is for option e correct correct uh nay F motion fails 5-2 we're back so it looks like again we  have an option a and an option e   that has not gained clear consensus  council member Johnson thanks mayor um I'm move to defer this item to  December 3rd 2024 to answer some   of the questions raised by council members  and provide direction to staff at that time second we have a motion and a second to table this  discussion for further um on December 3rd 2024 any further council member hoisel thank you  mayor um would we also be able to have staff   take some of the comments that we've made up  here today and adjust some of the plans that   way maybe they do come up with an option  F that is a combination of option e and   option A U would that be part of the motion as  well yeah I think would I manager mayor thank   you is it possible to talk about December 10  instead of the third I mean given the weight   of what we're talking about especially if you  want us to play around and we have you know   big Financial issues to address here is is  that the best date or would a later date be better let us see what we can get done for the  10th okay I um amend my motion to December 10th Council uh we have a motion in a second  further discussion beginning with council   member Johnston uh I I agree with the  council member H Heisel except I would   rather use letter G for good instead of f  for fail we might still get the G anyways   okay council member Glascock um we just have  to get to four and so I hope and I know staff   will take that into consideration um but I  will say again for the record I'm not voting   for anything that includes deleno as part of  the plan so um that's not my path to get to Ford my staff recommended action in or a comment  uh regarding deferring to December 10th is can we   look at Option e where $3 which seems astronomical  does not become that um if that truly is the   will of this body it has to be reasonable and  I don't believe $3 an hour is reasonable for on   street parking um one other comment I will make  is as we were also in Tampa and I did walk around   as well I saw instead of parking meters as well  as parking kiosks I saw more parking signs and   so that seems to be more economical also um if I  remember correctly um the cost of can Troy uh tell   us how much a keos costs versus a new modern meter  that takes into account coins bills and credit   card yeah so I got an expert over my shoulder here  that's going to keep an eye he's gonna kick me if   I'm wrong but um so generally speaking um as we  went out to bid and the um and the providers of   the equipment provided their lowest and best price  the vendor that provided their lowest best price   for the single head meter head without um credit  card enabl was about $600 for an individual meter   head with credit card it was about $800 a meter  head uh for the cost of a multi-bay kiosk it was   about 5 I what 5600 was the number that reminds  correct that had credit card enabled so that's   where we as we look at the system right if we  look at a block face and there's more than x   number of spaces um right being good stewards  of taxpayer dollars if it's more economically   feasible to use a multi-bay kyosk rather than  individual meter heads we took all of that   into consideration when we packaged the sort of  capital outlay that was associated with meter acquisition thank you yep council member Johnson  thanks mayor I really hate to do this um I know   I made the motion to defer to December 10th um  but I want to get more specific like the mayor   had said so around the council conversation um  looking at bringing this back but looking more   at what the two options we had talked about so A  and E were some combination of those two to look   at getting more support from the council and not  all of the options that we talked about tonight so we have a motion and a second to  defer this item to December 10th with   further consideration for options  A and E to make them more realistic   and no more discussion so we'll now ask  the city clerk to please open the role okay this motion has now  been deferred with in past 62   one madame clerk please call the next item  can we take a quick 5 minute break only gotes e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e I apologize for the longer than five minute  break um but we will continue our council   meeting uh so that the next Council agenda item  can move forward we'll bring back all council members Madame clerk can you please call the First   new business item Holocaust  Memorial construction and maintenance good evening mayor and Council are  here to talk with you tonight in reference to the   Holocaust Memorial construction and maintenance  and I I do have some representative from uh uh the   group here as well and they will have opportunity  to speak a little bit later also so the hoola   Memorial Inc is a nonprofit uh corporation that  was formed by a group of invested citizens to   support this request uh their Vision was to create  a holy cost Memorial monument uh to educate uh   residents and visitors about the history of World  War II the hoola as well as Kansas liberators and   memorializes the victims uh the survivors and as  well as the soldiers uh the Veterans Memorial Park   Inc pm pwi on June 27 the city council renewed an  agreement with them for maintenance and planning   for the park uh the original agreement  was approved on Janu July 21st in 2009   to outline the scope and jurisdiction of the park  our affirms that our Memorial is dedicated to the   honoring veterans and the US military are to be  placed in the park itself staff has worked with   the Holy cost moral Inc to identify a location  for the monument approve the design as well as   develop an agreement for construction and  maintenance uh the agreement all outlines   the expectations for construction and maintenance  responsibilities and the Holocaust Memorial all   routine maintenance and repairs of the monument  itself would be their responsibility the city   would cover the general Grounds Maintenance and  electrical systems and this is consistent with   the maintenance requirements for the uh existing  agreement that we have in place uh the memorial   was uh actually constructed will be constructed  next to the Vietnamese uh Vietnamese American   uh Community Memorial on October the 12th I  mean August the 12th of this year the board   of Park Commissioners voted to recommend  or approval of the project and on October   the 7th the design Council voted to approve  the design with the condition of adding uh   security lighting and the design has been  modified to include this addition and we   have um Matthew from uh the group that will  give an overview of the actual project itself very good thank you sir mayor council thank  you very much for having us tonight um and   enjoyed the the dialogue tonight he was very  uh engaged um again I'm I'm here on behalf of   a lot of volunteers uh friends my uh longtime  associate uh Robert Kaplan is the Visionary on   this project he joined is joined by Charlie  Harris who has been kind of the curation uh   the historical knowledge behind the plaques that  I'll proceed through I'm going to go through this   as quickly as possible if you'd like me to slow  down please ask um I know everyone's been here a   long time again also wanting to recognize Balman  for their contribution um city of witcho um has   been a great guidance for us they've shown us  a lot of opportunities we've we've really had   good dialogue again the design Council uh  Parks everyone's been very supportive and I   think we've landed on a really good solution  um as was mentioned we are just to the north   northwest of the Veterans Memorial Park the  great proximity uh part of this Memorial is   dedicated to the liberators a big part to Kansas  recognizing Eisenhower as the commander um and   his his commitment to documenting the atrocities  so you know being able to look over our shoulders   right there is a wonderful part of this also  we have a backdrop of a 1940s brick facade with   the evergy building and then you turn and when  you exit this same space you're getting a view   across the river to exploration which is uh just  a just kind of a coincidental um situation but   really a neat deal um again that small triangular  Reserve that the city's owned um is represented   on this document and our position within that uh  distance away from the adjacent uh Corners making   sure that the physical space we're creating is on  the reserve and again with the support from the   Veterans Park to place the additional sidewalks  to access one of our requested modifications   during this process was to bring lighting which  is unique to most of these memorials this one   will have lighting at the recommendation of  our design counil and we've decided to match   the lighting that is instrumental in the 2004  design of the water water walk excuse me across   that area um and that will be part of part of the  cost to the memorial a blow up of the plan will   show the six plaques along the back these are  going to be utilized for historical information   you can go through those in much greater detail  and then the centerpiece will be a dedication   plaque um the light pole although not shown  in this plan is going to be at the what would   be the 6:00 position as you're entering around  it um and it'll Shine Down um more than out so   we won't be casting too too significant of of uh  Shadows again more detail on the specific plaques um I must have double clicked but we've got  an A B C and D um I apologize they're not   showing up on this but this jumps right into  C D I will tell you A and B go back and look   at the history of the uprising of Hitler and  the power that he brought um part of this is   to think about how this could ever happen to  begin with that for me anyway that's kind of   a personal interpretation um but again Charlie  has done a great job of looking at kind of from   the end of World War I all the way forward uh the  boid I guess that was filled and how this happened   um but then again ending with the Kansas  liberators Eisenhower um my grand parents   generation and wital uh even the women that would  go and work on the plants this is not addressed   in this but it's something that's important I  think witch and this Memorial in witch has a   special meaning because of uh our our City's  commitment and then again the center plaque   to the Six Million the Jews um the 11 million in  whole estimated Roma disabled homosexuals some of   the materials as we move into that space rumbled  Stone trying to once again kind of immerse an   individual in that in that small area and then the  distressed concrete uh board form concrete which   is very common to that area and then the mirrored  surface of the marble or excuse me Granite granite   that like many will will allow folks to reflect  um and also very Vivid um inscription uh so it's   very legible from an accessibility standpoint a  lot of background on its location um I think this   is a great location also there are several stumps  in the area that will be affected but not removed   we we will not be removing any trees which was  one of the comments in one of our meetings um   there is a small bed off the edge of the  Riverwalk that will be affected with some   minor landscape it's very matured I think we're  going to leave it much better than we found it   quite honestly there's the backdrop facing north  and then just down from that you can see the uh   view exiting our space looking across the river to  expiration uh again utilizing accessible sidewalks and that wraps that up are there any questions I don't see any questions  but I did have an opportunity to   speak with Mr Kaplan and I know he  wanted to say a few words thank you mayor council Bob Kaplan 6130 East Central suet  117 kind of reminded me when I go to Planning   Commission which I used to do a lot I say you have  10 minutes for rebuttal I said 10 minutes take me   10 minutes to get to the podium I'm not going to  speak to the subject of this uh unless I'm clearly   asked to do so I don't think it's really necessary  to do so I believe you know why uh in addition the   the atrocities of the Nazis during World War  II were unbelievable you wouldn't believe me   if I told you what they did to human beings and  I can't do it anyway emotionally I cannot get   through it it brings tears to my eyes so I simply  want to take a minute and I want to thank your   staff and your your Park staff your interim staff  further wonderful cooperation and her immediate   response they were just great to work with after  Mr chman was gone I also want a special thank you   to John filbrick Property Management I called  John the first day because I was looking for a   site and he's still with me on the project and  still assisting and it's been almost a year my   team itself consists of rabbi Emanuel Davis uh  at the temple Emanuel Michael Davis excuse me   at the temple Emanuel uh Matt who you just heard  who designed the material and is supervising the   construction and designed the monument Charles  Harris he's here in the brown sport coat he's   a former law partner he's an author and he's  a historian and he's responsible for much of   the in much of the inscription I had outside  people Balman company came in and helped with   the site and staked it out and they're going to  be staking out the memorial itself and everybody   has simply been terrific about working with me  and feels the need and it's very very simple I   was in Baltimore Maryland they have a big big  Monument sponsored by the state of Maryland   it's by State legislation and it's a huge Stone  and it has one sentence on it and it says those   who fail to remember are likely to repeat and so I  want this Monument because we cannot forget thank you thank you very very much Mr Kaplan and all  the volunteers who have put their time into making   this Holocaust Memorial possible in Witchita um  I did ask already um staff this question um but   just wanted to double check that this entire  monument and the lighting for this Monument   is paid for by uh this Community member and uh  volunteers uh that is correct they're actually   covering the cost and then when the uh design  Council wanted to implement the lights they are   covering that cost as well thank you very much  I see no further questions for staff thank we   will open it up for public comment I don't see  anyone from the public who would like to speak   so we'll bring it back to the bench uh council  member hoisel thank you mayor I'll I'll keep   this brief but I really do appreciate the effort  um for everybody up here in pushing this through   I think it is important not to forget most  importantly but also having something like   this that's sort of a catharsist to people that  they can uh heal to some degree um I'd also like   to say I appreciate uh the inclusion of all the  groups that were targeted by the Nazis in this   as well so uh thank you guys for all your work  on this thank you sir well the word in those   days were that Jews were not people people they  were Vermin that needed to be exterminated and   not just Jews Roma the gypsies the handicapped the  mentally handicapped the sexual deviants everybody   that Hitler thought was different he want a  blond blueeyed that's all it's crazy council   member Glascock thank you all so very much  for listen too mate yeah I'm tearing up right now um thank you and I think you put into  perspective things that matter um and things   that are Universal as well and it's good reminders  that we have that and I hope this will remind the   public that as well um something that both of you  hit on too and councilman hois said I'll keep my   remarks brief as well is not only the never  forget but making sure that um we don't allow   it to happen again the most powerful moment of my  life um was when I visited oshit banau and that   was moments after leaving the border of Poland  and Ukraine at the start of the war and seeing   that the last time that there was an atrocity and  um dehumanization individuals this was the result   and seeing both of those things side by side  reminded that America has a role in this and   that the way to do that is to educate our public  and it's memorials like this where individuals   that may never be able to go overseas or maybe  never able to go to DC they can experience in   Witchita and they can remember in Witchita and  they can have those same sentiments as well so   thank you for the work on this it matters and I  know I speak for the whole community that we're   very appreciative of this and especially the  financial contribution to make this possible   as well so thank you council member Johnson  thanks mayor I'll be brief as as well I just   want to thank you all for your your efforts on  this financial support to this and as well as   our Park staff for making this happen council  member John ston I too would like to thank your   contributions I worked in Industry that was  dominated by the Jewish Community have lots   and lots of Jewish friends we've had lots  of discussions on this and you're absolutely   right it must never be forgotten thank you  for your your work on it apprciate it with   that I will move to approve the agreement so  second everyone wants a second so I hear vice   mayor Ballard uh a motion and a second any further  discussion I see none Madame clerk please open the role all right motion passes 70  thank you again Mr Kaplan Madame   clerk can you please call the next  item vendor selection for computer hardware evening mayor council  members Mike MAA from the IT department um city has purchased Dell computer  hardware through local a value added reseller   High touch technology since 2014 so we've  had our partnership with them for quite   some time most recent contract with high touch  expired August 31st 2024 so it staff are always   looking at ways to save money as everybody is in  today's environment um with cost uh escalating uh   staff determined that perhaps using a direct  purchase environment would be beneficial um   so we we looked into that um worked with  purchasing staff to find a contractual   vehicle that would get us there uh they were  able to find the NASPA agreement through the   state of Kansas that would allow us to do  dell direct um During the period between the   expiration on August 31st and um really about  a month ago um we've still been um utilizing   that high tus contract to purchase um for those  things that that staff needed to continue to do business um as you can imagine technology costs  vary uh in terms of Hardware usually about a   million is what we spend annually um the expected  savings from moving away from a value added   reseller um will be about 70,000 annually so while  not a lot on one year you get out to 10 years   that that it adds up uh a couple of things  I want to make note of here is one we wanted   to make sure that moving away from that going  direct uh wouldn't have impact on the services   that we provide to every city Department uh we  have found that that was the case that we were   able to actually expedite that process of getting  Hardware so actually makes it a better process the   second thing is I'm actually very good friends  with the president of high touch so I've had   uh a lot of communication with him beforehand um  telling him we were looking at this he understood   right being prudent with taxpayer dollars um I  gave him some time though to to go back to high   Touch look at what opportunities they had to  maybe add value with that process over about a   two-month period they really were not able to get  there um so we met again he said look we really   can't be a value added right in this process  so he said he understood it made sense to move   forward uh law department has reviewed and and  approved the contract to form uh city code allows   City participation and Cooperative agreements  like the naspo agreement um because it's been   competitively bid city code also allows staff to  purchase high technology subject to ratification   by the city council so as recomend commended that  the city council approve the city contract author   authorize the necessary signatures and ratify  payments for technology purchases made prior to   the implementation of the Cooperative agreement  and I am happy to stand for any questions that   you may have thanks Mike any questions for staff  I just had one highlight from this and that is   that this is a cost Savings of $770,000 per year  right is that correct yes ma'am thank you very   much I see no questions for staff so we'll open it  up for public comment we see one individual coming forward good evening mayor C Council Vince  hanock from the deleno neighborhood I have   worked for three value added resellers in this  town you've heard me say before my background   is information technology and mass communication  I I've also worked for high touch although not   their VAR division value added resellers really  do a great job when you're small and medium-sized   business because you've got one stop shopping  for this part broke hey will you just fix it   this is not one of those situations our city  can absolutely we have the Computing staff   to do the types of work that avar does they do  add value for small but in this case we've got a   great team to do this so this is I wholeheartedly  support this it's the right move and it's a great   way to shave a few Pennies on a service that  they are not really adding any questions thank you any further comments I see  none we'll bring it back to the bench again uh appreciate the efforts  Mike on doing this as we look for ways   to a save money but also see how it if  contracts don't create or add more value   you how we can again bring that back inhouse um  and so again thank you for looking for ways to   save money for the city so with that I will  move to approve the contract agendum second   motion and a second any further discussion I see  none Madam clerk please open the role I motion   passes 70 Madame clerk please call the next  item budget adjustments for public works and utilities uh good evening mayor and council  members Gary Jansen Public Works and utilities   the item before you the first of two items I have  is proposed budget adjustments for the balance of   2024 for the public works and utilities department  h on a couple uh background items and I'll talk   about some specifics uh the 2024 revised budget  was approved by the city council on August 20th   2024 uh nothing that we are speaking about  this evening would would put us anywhere   Beyond or staying within that existing budget the  budget was based on anticipated activity levels   and costs and our projections at the time for  specific activities staff continuously reviews   Financial activities and adjust projections as  conditions change and I'll I'll talk to you about   some things that have changed since that time  the impact how we go about doing business on   a daily basis budget adjustments are needed to  address those variations between estimates and   and actuals so so I just mentioned that budget  adjustments are needed to address variations   between estimates and actuals by categories so the  categories that we're talking about are salaries   and benefits contractuals Commodities capital  outlay and others and so what we're talking about   tonight is adjusting as needed between these  categories uh to be able to move forward for   the rest of 2024 offsets are available for each  category and adjustments will not increase the   overall budget uh so the the table to the right  shows the divisions that we're talking about and   the categories the maximum projected amount that  we need to adjust is shown on the right and again   those offsets are included in what's shown in the  agenda items I'll hit on a couple of highlights   and then I'll talk about some specifics within  our facilities group adjustments are needed for   increased maintenance activities uh we're in the  business of fixing things that break can't always   predict how what that's going to be from from one  day to the next and I'll I'll highlight a couple   big items that made a difference for for us  so far this year Fleet H and within our Fleet   division has increased contractual repair work uh  due to continued vacancies staff vacancies Water   Production has been impacted by inflationary  uh pressures that we've talked about in the   past our water distribution group is the same  as Fleet contractual services are needed uh as   a result of continued vacancies and within our  Landfield group we had some unexpected events   that I'll talk about in just a moment uh so some  driving factors there was a change in accounting   practices in late 2023 and effectively what that  did was it used to be give you a quick example if   we would do something replace a garage door uh  everything the labor cost the parts would all   go into contractuals that was changed to where  the the actual parts of that the the Commodities   was moved into Commodities so we just didn't quite  catch up to that we didn't have the data available   we should be fine going forward into 2025 that  has accounted for some of the changes as you see   tonight I mentioned increased maintenance and  repair levels Outsourcing due to vacancies and   inflationary pressures but but I hit on a couple  of of maybe highlighted items uh to that can hit   our budget a little bit more than we had expected  we had an underground fire service line break at   Century 2 you can see from that extent of repairs  was pretty significant structural repairs needed   at fire station uh I think we do a pretty good  job of staying on top of all of the 500 facilities   that we maintain on a daily basis across the  community but some of these things come out   out of nowhere uh and mentioned the landfill  so earlier this year the landfill experienced   a lightning strike that damaged equipment caused  a below grade fire to burn for several months it   took us some time to work through this and really  realize what the costs were uh and how they were   going to impact the budet so additional activities  and materials were needed to control the fire and   repair the damages um so these are just some  things that can add to it it's part of what our   discussion is tonight so really that summarizes  what we've got uh I I wanted to just get through   this quickly I'm happy to answer any questions but  with that staff recommends that the city council   approve the budget adjustments and authorize  staff to implement the city council action be   happy to stand for any questions questions for  staff I have two of them council member hois   thank you mayor um appreciate your work Gary um  soone it says financial Comm um considerations   says the recommended adjustments are necessary  to close out accounts it's part of the end of   year process process um so is this an [Music]  over are we putting how much more money are we   putting into the budget to close this out than  was originally allotted or is it just strictly   we're not we're not okay so we're still staying  within the the revised budget that was approved   okay so24 all we're doing is moving shuffling  funds around within the budget okay because it's   just classified differently than what it used to  be correct okay that's part of it okay thank you I'll start with uh slide number 111 I was unaware  of this lightning strike and I I guess I wanted to   know do we now have this was a natural occurrence  so it didn't couldn't have prevented it but were   there any learnings from this Landfill fire that  burned for 7 months well it didn't burn for that   long it it was it was still for several months  um and and sorry maybe that's what you said uh   it just took us some time to kind of get on top  of the cost we we did learn throughout the year   what it took to make those repairs I do think  and I don't have staff here to specifically   answer that question but from what I talked to  them about I do think when something like this   happens within our landfill operations um we have  a better idea of what to look for in the future   of something like were this to happen not knowing  exactly what was going on below grade so I I I I   do feel confident we learned from that if we have  a similar situation it's probably not likely but   you never know and then my only other question  is because the financial consideration is really   the budget will remain the same um which was  already adopted can you just go over I asked this   question previously 2023 2024 and 2025 budgets  adopted has that been increasing gradually if so   just by how much so that people understand  the budget for public works and utilities   so uh yeah and I've got those numbers sorry give  me just a second so uh information generally uh   there was an increase so 2023 our overall Public  Works utilities budget was just uh under $266   million 2024 adopted budget was 282 million  2025 adopted budget remains at 282 million   and so that's 11 funds across our department  including the utilities General fund uh there's   a variety of other funds including the landfill  within that and again this does not increase   the budget it just shifts some items within  the budget correct thank you I see no further   questions for staff we'll open it up for public  comment I see none we'll bring it back to the bench I will move to approve um the budget  adjustments and author authorized staff to take   appropriate actions to implement the city council  action second motion on a second any further   discussion I see none Madame clerk please open the  RO I motion passes 70 Madam clerk please call the   next item overestimate bid for downtown restroom  and hydration station improvements uh mayor and   council members again Gary Jansen Public Works  and utilities the item before you this evening is   uh a request for approval of an overestimate  bid for downtown restrooms and hydration station   improvements uh so to provide some background on  on kind of an overall uh program that includes   these facilities that I'll I'll hit on more on the  next slide in September of 2023 the city council   approved installation of two new restrooms and  multiple Hydration Stations in various locations   in October of 202 23 the city council approved  a budget of just over $630,000 for that same   plan that overall plan included four Hydration  Stations one at napar Park that it was installed   in 2023 one at Oldtown square that was installed  in 2023 one at Oldtown Plaza that is underd design   and projected to be installed in 2025 a Hydration  Station at a price Woodard Park which is part of   the project we discussing this evening two single  user restrooms at a price Woodard Park and napar   park also part of the uh project we are discussing  this evening for the restrooms in particular uh we   chose the Portland L was specified due to its dur  durability ease of Maintenance installation and   crime reduction features and I want to talk  about some of those specifically over the   course of of discussions that we've had with the  council we've hit on some of these items here and   there but I wanted to bring it all together and  talk about the notable features of the Portland   Lou and why other communities have chosen to use  these so uh the facilities are made of heavy gaau   steel construction to withstand vandalism attemps  attempts and and obviously any weather Antarctic   Frey stainless steel posts panels louvers roof  and toilet everything that's a part of this is uh   again that heavy gauge stainless steel that can be  easily cleaned and replaced interior and exterior   LED lighting with photo eye and motion sensor  meaning that the lights don't come on until you   go in so it's uh some Energy Efficiency savings  there and an occupancy counter so that we know how   many people have used them baby changing table  uh cold weather toilet upgrade for usage year   round so uh and that's basically the plumbing so  that we could if we chose to use these year round   right now uh all of our generally all of our  restrooms within our parks are closed for the   winter they're not insulated they're not heated  uh so we close them for the winter winter because   they were never built to accommodate the cold  weather as these would be uh there's an indoor   hand sanitizer couple other features I want to  talk about is an outdoor recessed hand wash with   hand dryer and soap dispenser the reason we chose  for that to be outside less chances of vandalism   people can see what's going on there but still  have the ability to use the hand wash uh these   facilities use blue lights to prevent drug users  from locating veins uh this was kind of a new   one for me thought it was a good feature uh I  know it's something that that is used in some   larger communities and school systems it's been  used for a long time for the same reason uh one   of the what we believe one of the reasons why  we recommended the use of the Portland L is   this next part is some of the best features  of it so the angled louvers provide occupancy   visibility and privacy meaning that you can tell  someone's in there but they still have the Privacy   they need to do what they need to do the open  and bottom top of the restroom allows sight   and sounds to carry outside the restroom what  that means is and this is why this was designed   this way it allows enough privacy to use the  facility but not enough that makes people want   to stay um there are 40 of these that have been  installed in the Portland area the Northwest part   of the country they have found that that's one  of the most valuable resources for them with this   facility is that people will use them but not  want to stay because it's private but not that   private these facilities also can be relocated  if there's ever a reason that we want to if if   we choose to go forward uh anybody that uses these  if you want to move them somewhere else you know   you still got to hook up water and sewer but they  are able to be relocated the first Portland L was   installed in 2008 many communities are now doing  so I mentioned the Portland area uh and looking   at some information recently Cleveland San Antonio  Chicago New York there's a lot of communities that   have ch chosen to go to this facility uh for a lot  of the reasons we talked about so you know there's   been a question that's been brought to us about  cost I think a lot everything that we just talked   about on these last two slides is the reason  why we see the costs that we do so particular   to the reason why we're here tonight on for this  particular project is the project for construction   of the two restrooms one needs at natur Park  and Woodard Park as well as the installation   of a Hydration Station at Woodard Park was bid for  construction on October 18 with all bids exceeding   the engineer's estimate the lowest bid received  exceeded the engineer's estimate by $288,000 6%   roughly of of the estimate for a total of just  under $532,000 the bid includes the Portland   Lou itself relevant shipping site clearing and  restoration sewer and water lines installation   mobilization I'm going to show you a slide next  that breaks this down per each just so we have a   better understanding of what all costs go into  these the higher bid as a result of of what   we continue to see with inflationary impacts on  material cost and labor I think for this project   in particular uh there's probably some factors  related to contractor schedules it's a little bit   of specialized work there's a lot of commercial  work going on in the community right now so we   start to see those impacts when when we've got U  not as many contractors maybe to bid on a project   accepting this bid will allow the project to  proceed without requiring it to be rebid thus   eliminating a a potential increase in the cost and  delay in construction of the improvements so just   to look at a breakdown of each uh each location  so at a price Ward Park the total is just under   $259,000 you can see there's a variety of costs  the Portland L itself is just under just under   $190,000 we've got water and sewer connections  and then everything else that goes into this   the foundation the electrical earthw site clearing  anything that we've got to do to create a concrete   pad to put back what was there is just 49,000 for  Navar uh in particular that last item is a little   bit more so the overall cost is more we've got  water and sewer connections also everything else   be below the line for that is just under $72,000  the estimated schedule uh pending the council's   action tonight would be uh for the contractor to  start work in December and complete the work in   March generally to have everything work working  and operational at that time through June we   would wrap things up I wanted to show real quick  what the specific locations look like this is at   napar Park the red circle that you can see uh near  the kind of dog park area we we chose for a couple   reasons one of the things was mostly to minimize  the cost for the public utilities was the best   place to connect there any location near Douglas  was really going to impact the visibility of the   park including the sign there is ample lighting  nearby and good sight lines to all the retail   and Commercial U buildings within the area Woodard  Park restoration uh restroom and hydration station   would be in the same area you can see it's close  to Waco it's close to Douglas it' be accessed from   the river uh when there's community events here  would be a good location uh it was cited for those   reasons and there's also ample lighting nearby  which we think is important the existing budget   of $630,000 was approved by the City Council on  October 3rd 2023 as I had mentioned the adopted   CIP includes $30,000 in general obligation Bond  funding for Hydration Stations in 2025 staff   recommends adding that to the currently approved  budget for a total of $66,900 uh so mayor there   had been a question about there's some uh expenses  to date out of that $630,000 approximately 91,000   has been spent to date that includes design and  installation of the two Hydration Stations already   in place at napar Park and Oldtown Square the  design of the Hydration Station at Oldtown Plaza   I talked about the design for this project and all  of our project management staff costs that go into   it while I'm on this slide because this question  was asked before the last time we were in front   of council uh the about the cost of cleaning so  our estimate for this facility is just around   $5,000 a year per each um we we right now we've  got 37 Park restrooms under one contract that's   about $143,000 a year uh we think that we can  work these two into that same contract as we've   done in the past uh when you've got that many  facilities which would make 39 now we can make   some adjustments to schedules here and there we  think we can make that work um nafer park there   is a Cid in place for napar Park that I think  the last time we looked generates about $66,000   a year uh for maintenance of the park whatever  part of that is available could possibly go to   the cleaning of the restroom in Navar park with  that staff recommend city council approve the   overestimate bid adopt the amending resolution  and authorize the necessary signatures and I'd   be happy to stand for any questions thank you Gary  questions for staff beginning with council member   Johnson thanks mayor I'm glad that we wrapped up  on today we still have 3 minutes left in World   toilet day perfect item for this um one I think  I was the first witch itend to step foot in the   Portland L and Tampa so it's a lot more spacious  than the pictures provide the blue light is um   pretty cool and the changing table in there  is great one of the things you mentioned but   didn't go into detail was about it could work in  a winter there's actually a heating element that   keeps the pipes warm so it can work into down uh  -19° so that works here in wiah so if we do want   to keep it open for fall events over at napar Park  um that would would work out so I I think again   it's a it's a great investment seeing it in person  uh the gentleman who was explaining everything to   me talked about the benefits of it the ease of  Maintenance just power washing it essentially   to clean it out um and all of those benefits  ease installation and the handwashing station   outside just thinking about um folks wanting to  wash their hands and again providing this there   he also said that was one of the two that will be  here in Witchita so that was uh pretty cool to see   but I appreciate the presentation again seeing it  in person uh really sold me on it even more than I   was before just looking at it and I think it'll be  a great addition to downtown council member hoisel   thank you mayor um so this will be ours once we  buy it right Gary correct so if we want to at a   later time decide to turn around and sell it to  somebody else if um there are issues with it is   that something that's possible I wouldn't see  why that's not an option okay so it's it's it's   not just throwing money away it's something that  we have physically tangible okay so I appreciate   that thank you the the the manufacturer I hope  that these facilities could last up to 100 years   so I think the you're going to get a lot of life  out of it whether that's true or not I think we   can tell by the way it's built it's going to last  so so there would be an opportunity for somebody   to use it I suppose okay thank you councilman  brick Glascock I just have a few questions I have   plenty of comments later but just a few questions  how many times a day will this be cleaned right   now we would plan to clean it once a day but  it's it's like anything else we're going to   have to see what the use is our hope is you know  our estimate is based on our current custodial   contracts and what we do in the park restrooms  we believe the the the things that we've seen   and looked at and even to LY to council member  Johnson's comment that it probably is easier to   clean and we even think and so likely those costs  could be less right now we're planning on once   a day so I've done a couple research on other  communities how that have this Columbus faced   a challenge um regarding their City Firefighters  to get into stalls without breaking the doors has   the manufacturer prevented that I know Columbus  had to like special retrofit theirs so is that   something that's mentioned in any of the documents  I'm not aware of that and the testimonials that we   looked at I had not seen that I mean I I believe  that it's there I just we hadn't seen that part   so I'm not aware of that okay and then um I  know that we have a porta potty vendor that   is pulled out of how we're operating a lot of  our porta potties in the community can you talk   to that currently uh I can't but I don't know if  Reggie may have some information on that and why down so we uh we work with purchasing and had an  agreement in place for a party part provider and   once we put the bid out for the last time there  was only one respondent and they've had concerns   with uh vandalism and damage to the portter poty  so they've decided that they're not going to   continue to provide the services for us besides  uh special events only so we wouldn't have them   for normal use for Park uses at our locations  thank you I think that's all my questions   council member Tuttle thank you thank you Gary  for your presentation and all the work on this   how many city-owned restrooms do we have currently  downtown I know we asked counil Council had asked   for this at at one point uh the best I can tell  you within our Parks is there are 37 restrooms   across our Parks um right now downtown there  are two public restrooms the one in Oldtown   we've talked about which is nearly always closed  and open for events there is a public restroom   at waterwalk within the garage area that is also  closed and only open for special events uh I think   that probably encompasses most of our public  restrooms so there are essentially no public   park restrooms in downtown there are those two  but they're not open except for they're not open   at any point in time except for special events  and so the restrooms we've talked about at the   old to farm and Art Market um they're closed  right now because we're worried about homeless   going in there in vandalism but then we also Clos  them in the winter because they aren't insulated   and and they can't accommodate the cold weather  is that correct correct and then when we have um   and I don't know are the the restrooms at the  Oldtown Farm in Market are they ADA Compliant   uh that's a good I think they probably are okay  because I suspect over time we brought them up   to comp sure and then but portapotty are not  considered ADA Compliant correct but this is   considered ADA Compliant they they do make porta  potties that are considered ADA Compliant they're   special ones the Portland Lou is yes okay thank  you council member Johnston thank you Mayor Gary   has mentioned that we could these will go down to  19 degrees are is that upgrade included in our it   is our bid that is included I didn't have that  detail but that is included what I talked about   um when we included the sorry I'll get to it here  in just a second the part that talks about that   cold weather toilet upgrade that is what we  were talking about correct so would you when   it's forecast to be 18 degrees will you go close  them or you would just we just do it on schedule   of December 1st we're to close them right now all  of our uh Park restrooms are I think all of them   we're currently closed for the winter I think  that's something we'd have to evaluate um you know   if it doesn't make sense uh to to keep them open  when it's that cold whether they can withstand it   or not it might be that we want to close them I  think it's something we'd have to see kind of how   it works once it's installed when do you reopen  them uh so most of our current Park restrooms   open in March beginning of March yeah or less  pretty cold in Mar well and and you know we can   be flexible then okay but but we have found over  the course of time because I've got our schedule   here that I think we can accommodate that sure we  get some days that are cold we get days that are   cold in the middle of summer and Kansas anymore  but but I we can and we're flexible with that   depending on what the weather's doing okay okay  thank you council member glassock thank you last   question it's late but I was on my second sheet of  paper um so I visited every water fountain around   the City Corp today and public bathroom now  knowing that they're closed for winter at least   the bathrooms are however I tried every single  water fountain Veterans Park did not work keeper   Pavilion did not work nafar did nafar dog Fountain  did not Oldtown did not Delena dog park did not   Riverside did not Farmers Market Square did not  the keeper Southside was working and then there's   one along mlan Boulevard that was also not working  and so out of those that I visited only two of our   10 fountains are working which means that they  weren't shut down for weatherization yet because   two of them are still working including nasar and  also the souths side of the keeper I also know   that because prior to um vice mayor Ballard being  elected I messaged uh council member um cayc about   this because half of these water fountains did  not work then either and so do we have a deferred   maintenance plan of what it would cost to get  these operable or why are these not OP able right   now if they're already in our system so I will  tell you and I can get you the details I tried   to get that and didn't quite get there we did  start winterizing fountains last week and I know   one of the Hydration Stations the the one that you  mentioned it's it it was winterized by our staff   they've still got some to do I don't know what  their schedule is I don't know where they went to   but some of our fountains have been winterized  I can get you the details on that I do think   probably uh from what I know know and can think  of some of the fountains that you talked about   has possibly been oper inoperable for some time uh  some of the older style fountains had issues that   we weren't able to overcome but I I would have  to get you more details on all of that but I KN   I do know we started to winterise including one of  the newer Hydration Stations we did that last week   thank you my only question I see there's unless  vice mayor Ballard do you have any questions now I would just um comment that um I to  noticed before I got on to council that   some of our water funds in the core um  did not work and I learned that through   meeting people through the blessing box so  um I took initiative to start getting our   Hydration Stations updated or upgraded um and  we've added um a couple to the budget um each   year so far so that is something that is really  important to me is having accessible uh water uh   really everywhere but especially along some of  the paths and stuff so um I would just comment   that was one of the main focuses um that  I started this initiative a couple years ago Gary my only question maybe is either  for you or for the city manager um as I am   again very cognizant that we have  a budget deficit of $22 million   in addition to that during this the  very first agenda um item we talked   about deferred maintenance of parking that  has not yet been accounted for in the CIP my   question is if this item does not pass the  remaining $540,000 where will that go back to Mayor that would be available for reprogramming  into the CIP available for reprogramming in C CP   yes um so again I just want to be cognizant  that every decision we make is a tradeoff um   when we choose one thing we forgo something  else and I'm just being mindful that again we   have a budget deficit we also added $18 million in  deferred maintenance for parking structures that   have yet to be accounted for in the CIP so I very  cognizant that again that's going to be priority   number one for me uh when I look at these  things um how we're trying to dig ourselves out   of a whole so thank you very much Gary for the  presentation we will now open it up for public comment good morning Heather schroer  executive director of downtown w   at 505 East dougas have excuse me um I was  so excited when I heard that you all um we   getting public restrooms and I said please let  it be Portland Lou please let it be Portland   Lou and then sure enough it was and the reason  I'm familiar with these is because they're the   industry standard uh for downtowns so downtown  Witchita is part of the international Downtown   Association um you know we we share tricks of  the trade with downtowns across North America   primarily and this is the go-to product um it's  it's tried and true it's tested it's as it's as   sturdy as uh as Gary's informative slide said um  so I I commend you for choosing a a great product   um that is uh you know successfully implemented  across the industry um I also just wanted to   cite the need for this within our our downtown  core um uh with two examples so um uh my husband   and I went to see the outdoor screening of the  Wizard ofas and naps Park Park um and uh and   they had you know all the the food trucks there  and we said well where where would people go to   the bathroom if they have to um luckily private  Private Industry stepped in um the work room um   had open hours in the evening to make sure that um  they were offering their private restrooms to the   public um but I did find it a little bit odd that  um the city does not have its own restrooms in a   in a city- owned Park um so it was you know  we were we were grateful for the um for the   contributions of of our downtown businesses there  um I do also want to mention the um disruption to   to downtown businesses that the lack of public  restrooms can cause um that same business um   reached out with security concerns uh because uh  some folks had come in to use their restroom and   refused to leave um it necessitated WPD response  um and we were grateful for um you know witcha   Police Department um for the information that they  were able to provide um but it ites it certainly   does place a burden on our private businesses by  not providing that as a public amenity so thank you honorable mayor and Council I'm John Axel  from uh council member Johnston's District I   live at 3154 North ridgeport Street in Witchita  and I am here to oppose this uh this project um   I understand that today's vote is just about  the overestimate bid and I understand that a   technical question was asked would this actually  uh cancel or repeal the appropriation I understand   the answer was yes okay which is good um I just  wanted that clarification first before I started   but I do oppose this uh this project this plan  to to purchase what's essentially two glorified   portapotty and I understand they're good products  but they're going to be bought for over a quarter   of a million dollars each we all know that you  can buy a very comfortable three-bedroom two-b   house here in wi it's off for that price and uh to  spend that price of a quarter of a million dollars   on a single restroom is wasteful I um see that  property taxes just skyrocketed that made me very   angry and I know it made a lot of people angry and  I think that as the mayor suggested the council   should be looking for ways to not spend money  so that maybe we can restore some tax cuts and   bring uh tax sanity back to this this city um I  disagree with what the previous person said about   the service that these would provide to the the  um businesses in the area if if I'm in the area   of Na nafar park I'm going to be doing business  with one of the restaurants or the arena or   something like that and I will choose not to use  the portaloo the port Portland L excuse me I will   choose not to use that because I know that I'll  have a nice clean warm warm restroom provided to   me by the restaurant owner or wherever I'm  going the arena or wherever I'll have that   for me when I go there so it's going to be in a  sense that restaurant or that business owner's   service to me that's something that makes them  exceptional when I'm going in there I I want   to be able to use a nice warm clean restroom  that they would provide and that's as a as a   uh person who's actually using their their  services so I do oppose this um this project I   consider it very wasteful um I guess we don't need  to repeal the appropriation just voting no on this   cancels the project and that's what I'd like to  see happen be glad to be here for any questions   you might have but I'm certainly not an expert  on this or anything like that so okay thank you thank you to our two individuals who spoke during  public comment I don't see any other individuals   so we will bring it back to the bench beginning  with council member Johnson thanks mayor um as I   was before I am still supportive of going forward  with this plan to acquire both Portland L and the   Hydra station uh We've we all received emails  today one from the actual business owner um   that is across from napar Park who talked about  some of her concerns with um allowing the public   into her establishment and some of the folks who  are um causing her some challenges by doing so   and having a public restroom would be a benefit  uh not only to her but other businesses that   we've heard from over there as well as over at  um price Woodard I think about the folks who've   come before us that like to run on the river and  they' have a public restroom that they could use   over there at they price wed uh I think it's a  benefit to downtown the opportunities downtown   um the events that are down there and again  as a parent with um at least one kid now who   chooses to use the bathroom whenever she wants  to um it'd be a place for her to be able to go   as well um I think there's a lot of parents who  could benefit from that and when she was younger   having a place where I could go change diapers is  a benefit fit as well and not every bathroom and   some of the private um sector places has that so  being able to have an amenity like that in napsa   park I think is a a real benefit and we've got  a lot of big things happening uh in 2025 down   there that I think those restrooms could um help  us with so I am supportive of that and I think   that we should continue down the path that we  have um and then one correction I know that all   together with installation and everything else it  was said that the Portland L was a quarter million   but the slide actually said it was 189,000 600  so a little short of a quarter million council   member Glascock thank you mayor I'm just going to  read some articles and then I have a few comments   San Diego newspaper uh crew quote crew Yanks out  the ground early this week a Portland L public   restroom that was a magnet for crime and one of  the most notorious Financial boondoggles in Rec   San Diego history a l which operated for 13 months  was moved to the city's storage yard and City   officials say they have no plans to reinstall it  anywhere anytime soon The Columbus Dispatch the   city's Portland L are equipped with a system that  heats the plumbing fixtures to keep pipes from   freezing and bursting during deep winter freezes  that hasn't kept the toilet bowls from icing up   during extreme cold spells despite the units  being purchased with a winterization package   the voice of San Diego operators charged with  overseeing a prefabricated single all restroom   that appeared in the East Village 2 weeks ago  has already been struggling to keep it open the   Portland L has faced setbacks including a broken  lock that has affected Water Service the L was   locked on the voice of San Diego visit on Monday  afternoon on Wednesday the facility was unlocked   with the toilet was filled with soil clothing  that rendered it unusable and graffiti covered   two walls of the facility on Wednesday night  it was found yet Lo locked yet again by 7:20   p.m. quote I've not been able to access it 90%  of the time so it's basically worthless Cy said   if it can't be accessed 90% of the time it's  not very practical he concluded the facility   would need constant maintenance to remain open  and stable Brent I can't pronounce his last name   manager and director of Park and Market developer  since quote since reopening on December 2nd our   maintenance team has been on site almost daily  troubleshooting a variety of issues um quote I   think it takes an attendant to make sure the  public restrooms don't become used for other   purposes I'll close with two additional ones  and then provide a couple comments quot San   Diego Yanks the Portland Lou Cruz yanked out the  ground this week where it was a magnet for Crime   W met week says in 23 that their parks and wreck  department quote as such restrooms in the downtown   core are not meeting the standards of being open  and clean in fact they have become a health and   safety hazard the request says it goes on to say  that they estimate $100 per toilet cleaning so I   appreciate that ours is $10,000 a year with their  estimate of $100 per toilet cleaning the city of   Witchita this would be year round so cut if by  by quarter would be spending $78,000 a year on   maintenance I already mentioned which uh fountains  I um came to this week and that I know a lot are   historically broken I also broke down the average  home prices and which do so the average home price   is 196,000 225 I know councilman Johnson said  that this is closer to about 189 per but you   have to look at the holistic cost which comes  out to actually more than $300,000 per one of   these and so I just pulled all of our ZIP codes up  here I also pulled uh three other ZIP codes in the   community too 67206 is the only exception to this  rule where there's a home price more expensive   than a Portland L at 412,000 67208 164,000 67203  152,000 67212 229,000 67213 which is mine is   113,000 and the lowest zip code uh in out of this  room uh 67209 247,000 672 18 143,000 and then   three zip codes that get a lot of attention as  well 67211 114,000 67214 85,000 and 67203 152,000   I'm not opposed to public bathrooms we have public  bathrooms that are closed from nasar I walked this   today and I timed myself from nasar Park to the  Oldtown um restrooms which are closed right now   is a 4minute walk it's. 2 miles or it's 1 minute  to drive or bike if we' open our facilities   this this this conversation is why people don't  trust government this is the opposite of fiscal   responsibility in every single way and this is why  people have distrust of us because there is nobody   in the private sector that is spending this much  for a porta potty this is crazy that's my final   comments about this council member John done thank  you mayor councilman Glascock beat me to the punch   there my house does not cost just put on Zillow  $255,000 and it has three bathrooms a basement   bedrooms I just I just don't understand it at all  if we if we can't keep the bathrooms open that we   have now what makes us think we're going to keep  this one open we're we're not not it's going to   break it's going to it's going to it's going to be  a mess to address I actually got two emails from   businesses in the area of uh NASCAR Park both  of them related to the homeless problem not to   clients or visitors anybody it was the Homeless  Problem um we have a plan for that it's going   to take us two three years to to implement it  fully we're going to we're going to solve that so   if we want restrooms for homeless let's spend quar  of million dollars or 89,000 whatever it is so but   I I just I just don't get it I have gotten more  response on this than I have on the parking issue   which is phenomenal people come up to you at the  West Y which is not high income why at all very   low income y probably maybe the lowest one in the  city and they say are you crazy why did you pass that and they just this is councilman Glascock  correct this is why they don't trust government   they said why would you do that our tax dollars  so I just I get emails and but just the people   the amount of people have come up to me with  this has just been phenomenally crazy that's   all I'm going to say council member ho Heisel  thank you mayor um I might ask council member   Las have you made that trick with a 5-year-old  that needs to take a take a restroom break it's   a little longer than the the 4minute walk there  um and and the the whole comparison to people's   houses to be honest I'm not sure where that comes  in um police apparatus Vehicles costs more than   my house it's for Public Safety you know we I  mean if that's a comparison that we're going to   be going moving forward it's just a kind of a  a weird comparison to make from my perspective   um I we've had a lot of talk tonight about what  investments we want to make uh solid decisions   moving forward um th this is a solid decision  this is something that the public expects that we   provide restrooms I understand we have issues with  that now we're all familiar with that we all have   parks in our districts that do have to be closed  Lincoln Park in my district the restroom is closed   there um so we we need to figure something out  because it's it's a public health issue um it's   also a a point of Community Pride um I'm proud  of our city and I want to continue to be proud   of our city and we deserve quality we deserve  quality items so um slapping the smelly porta   potty places every now and then it's it's not  screaming witch to Pride like I would like like   to see um so and this is also talking about  providing basic services for our fellow human   beings our residents we're talking water stations  we're talking a place to go use the restroom um   recently the mayor and I attended Justice together  at one of the local churches and after the meeting   was over I was sitting around talking with  members of the congregation and also talking   to um some of the members of Justice together and  they were talking about um the restrooms because   that happened I think the day before maybe two  days before and they were talking about how much   they appreciated um council's vote to actually  go with one of these I believe they were even   looking at uh something similar themselves but  they couldn't afford it and I can't make this up   this is a true story and I can provide people who  were there in the middle of this conversation an   unhoused person came up to the church and asked  to use the restroom which a great greatfully did   um great people there they provided it but you  could also tell that I mean what happens if that   restroom is or the church is closed at that time  where are they going to the restroom again health   issues Health standards so um I'm supportive  of this I I think this is a solid investment   again if if we go through this and it's not up  to Snuff we can pull them up and sell them to   somebody who it makes a little more sense for them  to put something like this in so um I appreciate   everybody's comments I appreciate kind of the back  and forth comparisons with this um but yes I am   supportive of this item thank you council member  Johnson thanks mayor and thank you council member   hoisel um I would just add if my 5-year-old has  to use the bathroom walking over four minutes is   not one of those options without probably getting  in the truck and going home because she's probably   used a bathroom on herself I mean we really  have to think about the distances being walked   from napar Park to Oldtown to a bathroom what  if those businesses are not open and you don't   have access to that it's not just about unhoused  people while the email did um um reference that   if the business is not open then there's nowhere  to use the bathroom unless you're going around the   corner or you're walking for 4 minutes and that's  if there's no traffic there at Douglas and you   can get across that street quickly someone who is  maybe physically disabled it's going to take them   a little bit longer to get there when they could  just go go to the restroom there I think about   what does it look like for a pregnant woman to  walk that far it's easier to go to the restroom   right there at the park I mean there's so many  things that this is a benefit for and we continue   to miss the point and honestly why is government  purchasing anything if we're looking at those   comparisons a city bus is a million dollar for an  electric bus from my house it's definitely not a   million dollars actually my house and probably  all my family's houses here is not a million   dollar so again and why are we doing anything if  that's really the justification these are public   investments in quality of life to make our life  easier there's things that we need downtown there   things that make our community better having  a restroom there is one of those things that   makes our Park better quality of life downtown  better and again we continue to bring up cost   and that's a real thing but whenever you build  something there's a labor cost there's a supply   cost it's going to be up there this restroom  costs more than my truck this restroom cost   more than my house house both me and my wife's  vehicle and the house together um don't cost as   much as a uh city bus so again bringing up those  costs I think is is probably more for I get that   thing public stuff but realistically this is a  really good public investment for us this is a   really good investment in quality of life and  one of our challenges in our city is investing   in ourselves and this is an opportunity to do so  that makes our Parks better our brought of the uh   event that's coming up here soon the mayor's Tree  Lighting Event well in the future years we'd have   a restroom there that people could use um for  that event right now we got a hope that there's   a business open that will allow folks to go in  there and use it so I'm supportive again I think   we we continue to make these different comparisons  that I don't really think make the point and and   also with council member Glascock I heard San  Diego three or four times in there is there a   list that you have that's more than San Diego  and maybe one other City cuz when you look at   just the cities to talk about this one item and  a challenge they have and you brought up even I   think defecation last time as we continue to look  for negatives I think we can all go find negatives   about anything that we build or that's out there  when the reality is this isn't easy to maintain   easy to clean facility it's going to work there  uh in naer park and a pricewood Park and I think   we're making really much to do about nothing this  is a good investment it's something that I think   should go forward council member tutle thank  you um I I just kind of wanted to make maybe   one clarifying statement too um we have a balanced  budget for 2025 we are facing potentially a $3.6   million budget deficit in 2026 and then we'll  look Beyond into 2027 so there's been lots of   numbers floating around tonight and people have  been asking me questions so I just kind of wanted   to make that clarifying comment um I took some  time and spoke with businesses around specifically   Napster Park um and I asked them you know are you  having problems with people coming in to your your   your restaurant or your attorney or you know your  retail shop whatever it may be and they all said   yes we all I think got one email but from making  some phone calls and and doing some visiting they   all said you built a park you know and great but  now it's our burden and people are coming into   our facility and it's homeless but it's also you  know soccer moms who are there in the park with   two little kiddos and so I'm listening to our  business Community we want our core to thrive   we want retail we want restaurant we heard from  downtown Witchita this is something that we're   really excited about how Witchita downtown core  is growing with Heather's leadership I'm sure it's   going to get even better but um it's not their  responsibility to Bear the burden of an amenity   that we're not offering in our property um I spoke  with city of witto Park and Recreation staff this   is something that they feel as a model I spent  some time with my Park Board appointee and asked   him questions talked to him about you know when  they've had seen this before um before the park   board and and got his opinion he's also supportive  um one of the things that we talk a lot about is   making sure that we're an inclusive community and  I like the fact that these are ADA Compliant um as   I mentioned these are not just for the homeless  um it's you know for anyone who's enjoying the   amenities in our Park we're programming Napster  Park but then we're not giving people what they   need to be able to stay there um I agree with  council member Johnson Johnston I'm sorry he said   if this is a homeless problem issue then let's do  it well it is a homeless problem ISU and you are   exactly right too we're making great stes with  the emergency WI shelter in the multi- agency   Center but it's going to be two or three years  and so this could help fill that Gap until those   facilities are open um again we spent millions of  dollars on N Park we've made it a state-of-the-art   facility but we missed one amenity and and people  are asking for this we all know the biomed Center   is coming downtown 3,000 more humans that means  3,000 more humans with potential basic needs um   one of my last comments is the restrooms at  Oldtown have been talked about and you know   long the walk is and and whatnot but those were  built at a different time in our community when   we didn't face the homelessness that we're facing  now and we didn't have the volume of people who   were going downtown because of the intentional  efforts we're making to get them there and so   yes they probably have some functionality but  they're not serving the complete purpose and   the complete need or we wouldn't be where we are  today having this discussion um I do again think   this this is an expense but I also think it's an  investment um and just one more comment when we   won the award for clean best tasting water um in  the state a bit ago the speaker said something   that really resonated with me he said we can't  change everything but we have to keep trying new   things and also we had he was referring to our  infrastructure that is decades old and we have   to be keeping up with the times and I see this  as a way of keeping up with the times thank you   member John ston John I'd like to thank you for  coming down I don't know if I've ever met you or   not if I do I don't remember but M door okay there  you go thank you I hear that a lot so uh thank you   thank you for coming down at 12:30 something in  the in the morning to uh to do that I I do like   your point uh if you go an afar Park there's a  darn good chance you're going to be going to a   business in that Park and uh if not if there's an  event at that Park I have a question for Gary or   or or Reggie at what point of an event the mayor's  Christmas tree lighting do they have to purchase   additional bathrooms what what's the break what's  the is it 40 people is it 50 people 100 people okay my my second question is for for two or  three years what would it cost us to put a py   potty handicap accessible serviced porta potty  that would be cleaned by the company what would   it cost us for the I guess it's about eight months  period what would that cost us does anybody know   that answer I I don't know I think we can get  you that information but I'll I'll just tell   you from from our standpoint and the reason why  the Oldtown bathroom is closed our concerned is   is that is an enclosed facility you cannot see  when someone's in there what's going on it's one   of the primary reasons why the Oldtown restrooms  are closed and a lot of factors that go with it   so just for us I and I can get you that cost uh  that would be our biggest concern and one of the   values of the Portland Lou because the Louver the  open again and the reason why people don't want   to stay in there with the portapotty people  can go in there and just do whatever they're   going to do like they do in the Oldtown bathrooms  that'd be our concern okay and my last comments   to councilman hoisel I think the market for used  bathrooms is very very small I don't think anybody   wants a used bathroom so thank you wor body yeah  uh this is a point of clarification so that folks   do know where to access that information it  was the August 20th 2024 budget presentation   slide number 54 says forecasts for 2025 to 2028  included deficits reaching $22 million in the   general fund based on city council Direction  over $1 million and adjustments have been   included in the proposed budget improving the  long-term Outlook with city council Direction   the 2025 budget is balanced so the number is  $22 million moving forward until we can figure   out exactly what we're going to do with that um  so I am referencing a number that Finance has   provided to the community a $22 million budget  deficit between 2025 and 2028 council member Johnson thanks mayor uh I was just going to  clarify the um having a porter potty out there   the mayor brought up at I think it was the last  time we talked about this the incident where there   was a fire in the porter potty it's the safety  concerns is it it's enclosed like Gary said to   Portland Lou you can has the slats at the bottom  um like so in Tampa when I saw that if you're   standing next to it you can see that there's feet  there's somebody in there there's also slats at   the top so something like that it would be harder  to to do because you know something was going on   in there and somebody can go in there and help  out an individual that was having a problem in   the pter pooty U being enclosed like that you  wouldn't know until it was almost too late and   in the case of that incident it was when we  saw smoke coming through the cracks in the door council member Glock thank you I don't  see anybody else on the board so I'm going to   offer a motion I move that the city excuse me  I'd like to speak oh sorry you're not in the   I forgot vice mayor ballor nope that's okay thank  you um just a couple uh comments I wanted to make   um I would it looks like there was in 2022 there  were 77 events with approximate attendance of   10,531 and in 2023 there were uh 61 events with  um an approximate attendance of 15,000 that's   a lot of people to encourage to come to a park  that we are not providing um a restroom too so   I think that is an important amenity that um I  can't remember I believe council member Tuttle   mentioned that that was an an amenity that was  left out that is extremely important um and you   know we have problems all over downtown with um  not providing a bathroom um and people constantly   having to clean up um outside um their businesses  outside their front door I did ask staff to poll   how many times a ticket had been um reported  but you know there wasn't very many of them   but I know enough business owners that have said  they're not going to go turn in a ticket to have   the City come out when they're able to make time  to clean up something on the sidewalk or whatever   that might be so um believe that many businesses  just take it upon themselves to clean it up and be   irritated for the rest of the day or or whatever  because um that's a problem I will say this is not   the sole solution but this is an investment in  our infrastructure that is not a Band-Aid that   actually provides um a solution to one of the  one of the many things that are broken that we   are trying to work on and there I know there's  been in the multiple conversations in times this   has come to the bench uh maintenance has been  you know brought up I think Gary did a good   job addressing that um but also this is not just  for someone experiencing a mental health crisis   like council member Johnson mentioned and council  member hoisel everybody has to go to the bathroom   you know you go you go to the park and you know  maybe you go to um um oh my gosh what's it called   a homegrown you know I took packs in there I feel  like I have to buy a poptart so that I don't feel   so bad trying to use their their bathroom because  there's nothing else you know available or going   into the workroom um and you know I appreciate  that these businesses are um willing to do that   but I don't think it's their responsibility  to um offer um what I think should be a public amenity thank you vice mayor I also one other  little quick thing really quick um is I believe   um I asked questions on the um bathroom that  had been closed um over by a price wed Park and   I believe it has been closed since 200000 when  the sewer connection was removed for the Hyatt   construction um the estimated cost to renovate  that space is 160,000 and the estimated cost to   rebuild it is 250 so whether we utilize facilities  that we already have or do something that's new um   state-ofthe-art uh durable public restroom they  both cost money and it ALS also costs money to   do nothing I know that there's recently been a  contract on Big Brothers Big Sisters building   and the day before closing the buyer pulled  out because of what they call poop alley and   parking which is really ironic that those are  the two hot button issues on our agenda tonight thank you vice mayor Balor council member glasa   thank you mayor I make a motion  that the city council deny the overestimate second motion and a second there's  discussion beginning with council member hoisel   thank you mayor um I would like to make a  substitute motion that city council takes uh staff   recommended action and approve the overestimate  bid adopt the amending resolution and authoriz un   necessary signatures second we have a substitute  motion and a second uh council member hoisel and   council member Johnson and there's discussion  beginning with council member hoisel oh that   was the that was the uh substitute motion thank  you mayor council member tutle Council M Johnson   were you I think he did the second okay you did  the second I I would like to make a substitute   motion but legal may I make another subtit motion  or can I amend the motion you can amend the motion   there's only one substitute that's what I thought  I would like to I'm just going to frame this up   for a second um when we voted on this in September  12th of 2023 we had some of the similar questions   similar discussions and I made a substitute motion  then that we would pilot this in Napster Park and   that we would wait for a price ordered Park the  need I think in Napster Park is greater it's where   I'm hearing from businesses I haven't had had  um any chatter about a price Woodard Park I've   talked with public works and it could be an option  for us to consider this to be a pilot project I   would feel good about that because then we could  see the efficacy of the program we could explain   to the business community that we are indeed  hearing their need and that they are having   issues sometimes WPD has to get involved types of  issues because of the homeless and other people   just wanting to use their restrooms and so I would  make an amended motion that at this time we fully   fund the Portland Lou at Napster Park and then  use it as a pilot program for the a price Woodard Park we have an amend uh we have a motion for an   amendment to The Substitute motion by  council member Tuttle is there a second I see none so we're back to the substitute  motion by council member hoisel seconded by   council member Johnson any further discussion  I see none Madame clerk please open the role it's okay I motion passes 4 to three  Madame clerk please call the next item approval for the city council member Mike  kisel to attend a special legislative committee on   housing in toeka Kansas on November 20th 2024 to  provide testimony about housing condition issues   and state housing tax credits there will be no  cost to the city for this travel council member   hoisel thank you mayor um I just like to say  that they have reached out to a few of us to   talk about some of the housing issues in our  district uh namely vacant housing affordable   housing um inspections and whatnot I will be  traveling uh not as a representative as a city   but just as somebody who um understands these  issues and sees them within the community every   day I also will be taking my own car and not  seeking any um any res ution or anything for   gas mileage or uh gas as as a whole so  just wanted to put that out there make   sure it's Crystal Clear to everybody um not  a representative of the city up here council   member Johnson thanks mayor um just wanted to  highlight I'll be joining council member hoisel   virtually he's traveling up there in that same  meeting and also since I have the floor I move   to approve the travel second motion and a second  any further discussion I see none Madame clerk   please open the role I motion passes 70 Madame  clerk please call the next item approval for   city council member JB Johnson Johnston to attend  the round table discussion and Museum tour at the   Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City Missouri  on November 25th 2024 he was invited to partip   at in a round table discussion regarding  economic Trends shaping Kansas and Missouri   there will be no cost for to the city for this  travel council member Johnston thank you mayor   uh Jeremy Hill invited me to this I think it's  a great opportunity to network with other uh   uh Business Leaders and leaders from Missouri and  Kansas good opportunity I will be representing the   city and I would like to amend it um from no cost  staff says it's $266 for reimbursement I would   just like to propose that it's half of that $133  I'll be driving my own car so be reimbursed for $133 for mileage reimbursement for mileage  reimbursement yeah no no food cost no lodging   cost just mileage amendment to that  motion council member Glascock second   motion and a second any further discussion  I see none Adam Clerk please open the role I motion passes 70 Madame clerk please call  the next item council member appointments   and comments are there any appointments  I have one uh we'll begin with vice mayor   Ballard thank you mayor I would like to  appoint Joshua seol to Citizens review board we have one appointment and  oh council member John ston thank   you mayor I would like to ask the staff  to please schedule a time to consider   an ordinance regarding the operation of  golf carts on city streets and sidewalks   I've gotten some input from all the council  members and uh have taken into consideration   and I'd like to have a a dis a robust discussion  about this uh I see them everywhere and they are   illegal on all streets all sidewalks I just would  like to to get some framing around it so we can   can get some safety for the for golf carts and  things and have some uh some regulation about it you never thought i' he I say regulation  did you council member Glascock thank you   you mayor I have an appointment to the csb  is this appointments now too I don't even   know where we are okay um appointment  to csbg public sector uh Patricia Johnson I motion to approve the two board  appointments by vice mayor Ballard and   council member Glock second motion and a second  any further discussion I see none Madame clerk   please open the rle I motion passes 70 now we  have comments by council members um council member   Johnston already gave his which is uh some staff  recommended action for a future council meeting   council member hoisel thank you mayor uh first  off council member glasscock we are in purgatory   that's where we are right now um just let you  know um I I want to give a a shout out to staff   um you guys went through an awful lot tonight past  midnight um we really do appreciate all the hard   work that you guys put in every day you guys go  without it being said all the time and Dante looks   like he's taking a nice 15minute nap over there  uh appreciate appreciate all you guys um and a   special shout out to Reggie Davidson he actually  he just skipped out and he has a good reason uh   yesterday now I guess was his 25th anniversary  with he and his wife so I think maybe Council   owes them a dinner or something like that um so uh  special thanks to Reggie he's he's stayed here a   good soldier doing his job and then also council  member Balor uh good luck on your ride you're   doing it for a great cause um not going to say I  envy you for uh riding across the state of Kansas   but I do appreciate you doing doing it with a big  heart so thank you for that council member Tuttle   thank you um I just wanted to let uh Council  and mayor know that I was approved for travel   at approximately $450 to attend the governor's  um future of Water conference last week but due   to my district Advisory Board being moved because  of Veterans Day and then being asked to represent   the city at a few events I opted not to go um the  registration fee was um already part part of it so   that there was no cost we were able to cancel my  hotel um I obviously won't get mileage or pum so   there was no cost to the city and actually you  know now the city saved the $50 so just wanted   to make you all aware that I did not attend but  there's no cost or burden to the city council   member Johnson thanks mayor um real quick I had  a really great conversation with representative   Joe cart regarding some water concerns about  um drought and water usage from irrigation and   uh told him I would let you off all know and um  whoever might be interested let me know I'll set   up another meeting with him to talk through um  what he was looking at on the state county and   potentially City levels he want to have that  conversation so really good conversation very informative thank you all council members and  thank you to the staff for staying this late   and to the audience that's still watching on  YouTube thank you also as well as our Media   Partners who are covering this we appreciate  um all of you for tuning in to see how again   city government works um and really appreciate  all the individuals who came and spoke before   the council um we are here to listen and that is  our job our job then is to get that feedback and   make informed decisions from this bench and we  will stand behind the votes that we make from   this uh side and appreciate again um everyone  who works hard for the city of witch so with   that I will move to adjourn this meeting oh  who would like to who would like to Second   it second vice mayor Ballard seconds it  no more discussion sorry uh Madame clerk   please open the rooll I 10 motion passes 5-2  we are adjourned at 12:54 a.m. thank you you