planning and zoning committee of the city council all committee members are present today except for councillor borrego who is not attending we are meeting today via zoom this is a remote or online meeting where all participants will be on a video or audio conference we are holding this meeting remotely so that everyone can participate safely while we are conducting business under a public health emergency we appreciate your patience as lups meetings are conducted this way members of the public will be able to address the committee if they have signed up for live public comment per the instructions published on the agenda and on our website friday speakers will be moved into the meeting and will remain muted with their camera off until they are called upon to speak at which point they can turn on their camera unmute themselves and will have two minutes to provide comments to the committee after that they will again be muted and returned to be an attendee of the zoom webinar written comments were also received and distributed to the committee members in advance of the meeting members of the public city staff and the media have the ability to view this meeting live through youtube and zoom webinar the live stream can be accessed from most smartphones tablets or computers for those watching on the live stream thank you for joining us we will start with public comment hello to those joining us to provide public comment here are the public comment ground rules comments are to be addressed to the committee members only please keep your comments germaine to the topics on the agenda any disruptive conduct or non-germane commentary will result in removal from the zoom webinar each speaker will be given two minutes to provide public comment the timer will start once you begin speaking then the zoom moderator mr moya will let you know when your time is up mr moya would you please call the name of the first speaker thank you madam chair our first speaker is dan regan mr regan please feel free tune our video on meet yourself and your time will begin when you start speaking and you have two minutes am i audible yes sir please proceed chair and members one of the whereases of the brand new narrow states that many stat steps were used to ensure that inclusiveness equality and democratic processes are standardized in the updated ordinance the process used to create the new narrow was not inclusive out of 222 nas identifiable by the onc only 42 percent of them actually participated in the net process 58 of them either could not be contacted or chose not to participate and you refuse to share the raw data from that survey the process used lacked equality nas and coalitions asked for 17 months to be included in the creation of this new narrow and were ignored by the sponsor of this bill meanwhile naom recent business outlook article that it has been turned into an influential organization that has a seat at the table for government decisions that's not equality democracy has to do in part with voice the voice of the people being allowed to be heard and given credence the nep report stated that the city absolutely needed to re-establish trust with the residents of the city and immediately this the council uses a process that excludes all residents from a dialogue seat at the table in the creation of a totally new narrow you cannot use a process that is not inclusive lacks equality and is undemocratic to arrive at a policy that ensures inclusiveness equality and democratic processes that's a form of delusion not as bad as calling january 6 the love fest between verifying citizens and the capitol police but it is on the delusional spectrum nonetheless thank you for your attention and hopefully you will hear me thank you thank you mr regan our next speaker is dr joe vias dr vice please feel free to turn your video on i'll meet yourself and your two minutes will begin when you start speaking okie dokie um i just want to remind you of the widespread dissatisfaction with both the process and the results of a four-year venture into creating a whole new narrow we would also remind you that there has been no meaningful discourse with the public one 1.5 or 2.0 minutes is insufficient to have a meaningful discourse you know that we urge you to have at least two public meetings with neighborhood stakeholders who will be immensely affected by this legislation we can read the house of 0.71 and i mean the house how you're constructing it but have lacked the opportunity to ask the whys why you came up with these house we need that opportunity it's about consent of the governed after all there's a sense out here the council portends to invite testimony and sometimes it's evident in post-public comment that some on the council are not really listening nor do they seem to read what we out here put so much time and effort that we're trying to make a better albuquerque for us all surely we can do better that's my statement and i thank you thank you dr vales our next speaker is jane beckel miss beckel please feel free turn your video on and meet yourself and your time will begin when you start speaking thank you madam chair my name is jane beckley and i'm the president of the santa fe village neighborhood association speaking today on behalf of our neighborhood association regarding the current proposal to revise the narrow our board has significant concerns about multiple provisions in the proposed legislation mostly these are outlined in my written comments submitted earlier today as a board we reviewed the text of the narrow the city response to neighborhood and resident concerns the text of my written comments was reviewed by the board and unanimously approved at our last meeting on sunday august 8th for submission to the lumps the concern i address right now is the requirement that neighborhood association representatives outline how a position was determined when making public comment this requirement effectively disadvantages neighborhood associations in it presenting a position to the city or any city border commission first this requirement diverts a significant portion of very limited time for comment to outlining how a position was reached rather than being able to speak to the key points of the neighborhood association position individuals and other entities commenting are allowed to go directly to making their points secondly this provision seems to offer a mechanism for discrediting or discounting a neighborhood position based on how it was reached is a position less relevant if reached by the board alone rather than a meeting of the general membership or if there were dissenting votes even when a majority supported the position um and finally i think in the past i have been asked to take an oath that i was speaking the truth um usually when making comments and it seems to me that if one has done that that one's position as a representative if it's that stated should really be accepted and thank you so much for this opportunity thank you ma'am our next speaker is kathy adams miss adams please feel free to turn your video on unmute yourself and your two minutes will begin when you start speaking thank you very much for letting us speak today what i want for you to hear from me is i want you to understand the depth of disappointment that neighborhood volunteers are feeling as they have reviewed the narrow we simply do not understand how this document benefits neighborhoods in any way we do not see any evidence that the nep process was considered or used to inform this revision we ask we are asking what data was used to inform the revision process without any explanation counselors we are losing trust without any explanation we have to wonder what information or whose opinions were used to make the changes we have not had any opportunity to talk with you or to have you talk with us and we need to hear you discuss this document we actually want you to establish eye contact with us to let you know that you are involved i want each of you to tell us how the problems were resolved in the previous narrow and what improvements were made i would like for each of you to take the time to tell us what you think is the very best part of the new narrow and how you think it is going to benefit the function of neighborhood associations i would like to hear you tell us why you think neighborhood associations are important you want us to explain our reasoning and i'm just asking you to help us understand please use this meeting to have an open discussion among yourselves so that we can better understand the work that you have done on this ordinance thank you thank you for your time and please please talk to us thank you miss adams our next speaker is natalie rivera mr rivera please feel free turn your video on i'll meet yourself and your time will begin when we start speaking uh good afternoon i am matt rivera homeowner in the orchards that exits onto 118th street i am also a director on the board for the anderson heights masters association we have 856 homes in sandstone trails and the orchards that exit onto 118th street and there's a new development being built on 118th street um that will according to the developer include about 500 from homes so today i am coming to you in support of resolution r21 182 to extend 118th street from danish chavez boulevard to i-40 i want you to be aware that those are a thousand homes that i'm talking about and that's just those three neighborhoods on 118th street that right now are impacted by the traffic to uh atrisco heritage high school as well as situations such as july 27th in which two people were involved in an accident and died and that closed dennis chavez for multiple hours resulting in those thousands of homes having to go through side streets and add over an hour to all of the commute as that those deaths were investigated and that traffic accident was investigated additionally dennis chavez is rarely plowed when there's snowy weather or ice storms between coors boulevard and 118th street so you're creating a very dangerous situation in which thousands of homes are trying to get out of there and access i-40 it is imperative that 118th street be connected to i-40 please please uh prioritize connecting us and making us part of one albuquerque because right now there is two albuquerques and we are taking 20 minutes to a half an hour to even access the rest of albuquerque i'm begging you on behalf of every home that exists on 118th street and all of the homes the hundreds of thousands of people that are impacted by our traffic going through uncertain 98th street coors and atrisco vista boulevard just to get to i-40 thank you madam chair looks like counselor pena may have a question or comment thank you counselor pena hi i just actually had a question for mr veda i just was hoping that she could kind of describe some of the conditions as as you just did but you know 118 where it closes off at um amole mesa if you don't have access to dennis chavez can you kind of just kind of describe a route for thousands of people that you described on the southwest mesa and then also um looking at just the development even north of uh where you're where you're talking about all the residents that just westgate or westgate usk um all the way down to central how they're impacted with the traffic there in the ax the lack of access to a major road uh yes so um when dennis javas was closed the other day uh our option was to go back and get to i-40 and then go all the way up to atrisco vista uh and around which adds about seven miles of drive time it's about a ten minute addition um or you can go through the side streets which uh is 118 to a mole mesa from amali mesa you can go down to 98th street um for my particular situation i was coming up dennis chavez for from i-25 so i had to go coors to blake up to 98th street and then cut over to eventually a mole mesa and and come up that way um and uh those streets are getting wear and tear of those neighborhoods but additionally all of westgate and all the neighborhoods that you just mentioned are having to come up through omole mesa in order to access those three schools um atrisco heritage having the uh i believe the third highest enrollment of any school in albuquerque third only to unm and cnn so that is all of them backed up on 118th street there are times where i can't even get out of my neighborhood because it only at this time exits onto 118th street because callabell is not yet finished um because that development has been in the works for about a decade but uh so there is only that exit and so i've had to sit waiting for the intersection of dennis chavis and 118th to change so that people can access the school in non-probate times for about 45 minutes just stuck in my own neighborhood so uh you know we really need the ability to get out of our neighborhoods and and to access um access everything access our jobs uh thank you well thank you mr betta thank you for being here i appreciate your comments all right thank you thank you councilor pena next speaker please thank you madam chair our next speaker is renee horvath miss horvath please feel free to turn your video on and meet yourself and your two minutes will begin when you start speaking good afternoon uh can you all hear me okay uh yes i wanted to speak on the narrow and uh i just found out this morning that you were going to hear it today at lups i i know you already introduced it at city council i didn't know it would come up so quickly but i do want to express that a lot of people do have concerns about this new ordinance and i do think we need more time to go over it and uh have our questions answered there is a lot of questions like why are why are we changing so much why was there a moratorium on putting new neighborhoods uh you know for keeping them from forming because that has affected a lot of people on top of that mesa who were going to be impacted by a lot of this um development going on but they were not being notified and if they didn't run into somebody like me that says at the hearings they would not have known about some of these issues and so there is questions why was there a moratorium and then there's also the question about if we don't meet all the criteria because you did change some of the criteria and we do have some questions about that if we don't meet all the criteria then we're unrecognized right and then if we're not unrecognized we're not notified right so i think we need to have some questions answered and that's why uh joe bias was asking for a couple of meetings to kind of go over this stuff have these questions answered make sure we're on the same page and maybe adjust a few things before we approve it and that would help quite a bit otherwise people feel like you're railroading this thing quickly and through and they don't trust that and especially when they have all these questions that need to be answered and uh and that you're trying to put the neighborhoods out of business that's that's the comments i'm getting so i'm just sharing that feedback with you so maybe we could schedule some meetings like joe bias had mentioned and get these questions answered and maybe adjust things so thank you miss house for the neighborhood so thank you thank you our next speaker is peggy neff miss sniff please feel free turn your video on and meet yourself and your time will begin when you start speaking good afternoon i leave my video off to represent many of the people who can't get on today in fact i've been kicked off several times and it's a struggle but again i'm calling for counselor ben 10 counselor jones counselor gibson to recuse yourselves from all things audio i for one am and among others in albuquerque community believe that you are all too deep into the benefits of this new ordinance to see clearly how you are harming residents homeowners and local businesses the discussions at this point have gone far into considering that you and your continually administratively sanctioned participation and direction in the ido's implementation including this narrow issue may actually have criminal intent i believe that when community voices truncated or removed that this causes harm to my community it has been brought to my attention that it is illegal to legislate which is what you are doing here now that you knowingly cause harm to community members narrow takes away our voice you are harming our community why in the world would you not be embracing those elders who have come forward to suggest improvements and to ask for a place at the table why would you not open it up to a wider group to actually discuss the things that are important i agree with all the things that have been said here by my colleagues you have my suggestion of a tiered approach to neighborhood associations you have my suggestions and my concerns regarding the abuses of current hoas i also have a deep concern about why this committee and why you as leaders in discussing the narrow have not brought forth a review of the hoa act i i think that you are doing harm to our community i'm asking you to stop and think about the criminal implications that you are carrying forward thank you miss now are uh madam chair that concludes public comments thank you mr moya counselors we're going to go a little out of order today and we'll take up items b and c first let's go to agenda item b o 72 councilor benton thank you madam sherman at the request of the administration i move a deferral until the next let's meeting or excuse me to the lups meeting on september 15th amber yes thank you um members there is a motion to defer until september 15th do i hear a second there's a motion in a second by counselor gibson any comments all those in favor of re do michelle will do oh i'm sorry michelle does roll call it's been a while counselor benton yes councillor gibson yes counselor pena council councilor jones yes and that passes on a 4-0 vote to defer to december 15th thank you uh councillor benton you're next again with agenda item c 073 thank you madam chair also move uh at the administration's request a deferral until september 15.72 i'll second that motion counselors are there any questions then we'll go to a roll call there's a motion in a second counselor benton yes counselor gibson yes counselor pena councillor pena yes councillor jones yes and that passes on a 4-0 vote deferred to september the 15th councilor benton the next agenda item is um a 071 councillor benton you're muted thank you madam chair i know 71 this is repealing the neighborhood association recognition net recognition ordinance section 1418 ii replacing it with the revised neighborhood association recognition ordinance and prescribing responsibilities and services offered by the office of neighborhood coordination and making revisions to the inter integrated development ordinance related to neighborhood association notice i'm moving to pass councillor gibson offered a second there's a demotion in a second uh counselors do you have any questions for staff or administration or any comments actually madam um chair yes councillor gibson i do have some questions um that we have been collecting i'm sure the counselors have been as well um some of the mail that that i'm receiving is really pretty general in content so when i do uh respond to the to uh these constituents i'll ask them you know can you be more specific what is it that you're not seeing in this ordinance that you'd like to see or or what's in the ordinance that you don't want to see and why and so every once in a while you know we get some some detailed questions and clarification on what it is that they're that they're uh having having a problem with issues with so uh if i may i notice that we have miss bakke here from the onc uh with your permission madam chair i would like to um just ask that maybe i've got four got four or five four questions here but i think we can dispose of them quickly absolutely counselor gibson if you would just go ahead and ask the questions in miss baca thank you very much uh hello miss my counselor my first question for you is is there anything in this ordinance that prevents either neighborhood associations or coalitions from collecting dues no the ordinance does not prohibit charging dues it makes simply makes a membership and voting not predicated on charging dues charging or collecting dues yes correct there are actually several neighborhood associations in the city right now that do not collect any dues they raise funds in a variety of different other ways okay so let me just give you an example i live in jerry park neighborhood klein park neighborhood and um you know what i can't remember if they charged i think they do yeah they do church dudes let's say i haven't paid dues my dues but we're going to a meeting in which there's going to be voting items on the agenda am i could i be prevented from voting because i have not paid my dues that i'm supposed to supposed to have paid no under the new narrow um voting and membership are not based on paying dues gotcha thank you very much my next question is does this ordinance allow for coalitions to continue to exist uh unrecognized no they're unrecognized now can they continue to exist after this ordinance is passed sure they just wouldn't be considered recognized so there's no there's nothing that would would prevent them from existing and calling themselves a coalition but they would not be considered recognized under the city ordinance gotcha okay thank you and um what is the benefit to a coalit talk to the recognition of a coalition uh being being recognized means that the coalitions will be well they'll receive developer notification under the ido they do currently receive it as a courtesy uh if the narrow passes as it currently is they will be considered an actual official recognized neighborhood coalition and they will have a legal standing under the ido is that correct petra uh medical chair uh counselors yes that's correct uh they would be treated as a neighborhood association and so they would get the standard bias notice from the ido as well as having appeal standing very good thank you so much last question thank you for your patience with me madam chair uh last question is what would be considered a reasonable attempt uh what would qualify a reasonable attempt to give notices of annual meetings to everyone residing in a neighborhood that's come up a couple of times so reasonable attempt reasonable attempt would mean you know utilizing something like a neighborhood sign if an association does have a sign those generally tend to be put in prominent locations within the city excuse me within the neighborhood boundaries so that would be considered one way of giving reasonable notice other other associations utilize things like social media which has a pretty significant reach depending on how it's used flyers can be disseminated uh some associations choose to use mailed flyers uh to try and reach out to as many people as they can or they'll go to door door-to-door our annual report requires that we ask for some sort of proof of how the neighborhood meeting was noticed such as a social media posting it was posted on a neighborhood sign if it was posted in a newsletter some neighborhood associations have newsletters they'll send out the notification using that some associations have email lists that's acceptable as well some associations do text threads that's acceptable word of mouth is acceptable there's any variety of methods that could be considered giving reasonable notice very good all right thank you so much for that i appreciate it my pleasure thank you councillor gibson uh councillor benton are there any other questions from counselors yes uh i'll defer another couple but i i i i would if i could follow along with uh from my counselor gibson's question uh that was answered by petra maybe patrick could give a little bit of background on the fact that um this issue of standing in the ido uh and that this is actually expanding that to include coalitions [Music] yes having a little sound difficulty give us a second uh sorry there we go um madam chair counselor benson yes so when the idea was adopted it carried over uh the notice requirements that we had under the previous zone code which referenced the narrow and gave notice requirements to recognized and registered neighborhood associations one being neighborhood associations and the other being coalitions and so what we're proposing under the narrow with the recognized uh neighborhood associations and the recognized coalitions continues basically the same process that we have today where if you're in an area that has a recognized neighborhood association or a recognized coalition those two points of contact will get notice it's their responsibility to disseminate that information to their membership to speak with their membership about a position and then to to share that at the relevant board or commission [Music] the difference with the the narrow today versus the the narrow that's proposed is that we have a little bit more information about what's required of coalitions uh the coalitions are proposed to have a physical boundary to be not for that boundary not to be overlapping with other coalitions um and i think that's it but i'll have to defer to vanessa in that because she's the expert on the narrow council benson did that answer your question yeah i just there were these to make clear that that in a way these changes were were uh were foreshadowed by the ido which which uh did uh give some recognition to neighborhood associations is that correct madam chair councillor benson yes that's correct the ideo is uh what establishes the notice um for development applications and the narrow is what describes who gets that notice um and so there is an interconnection between the two in that act but i think uh if it and maybe mr melendros might want to take this one but the issue of standing uh mr melendress that as we know every citizen has a standing of sorts and a but that these are organizational standings that are that are given to groups with regard to land use uh uh matters that that are uh that are superior to that of an unrecognized group but could you clarify that a little bit more of why this is important at least to some groups of people that they have that uh standing on land use within the idea sure madam cherry council benton so it does relate to notice which has been sort of the discussion so far under state law and other laws relative to who is entitled to notice for various zoning actions state statutes do prescribe that folks within a certain distance of various actions are entitled to notice and generally given that entitlement to notice you can pretty much confer that people being noticed have standing to bring an appeal for example of of a zoning matter so if the epc hears something and somebody was entitled to notice that suggests that they have a potential impact to themselves or their property that is sufficient to confer upon them um uh sufficient standing to to appeal to the city council and potentially even further so what the narrow does is that it confers an automatic standing upon impacted neighborhood associations even beyond what notice or standing would sort of sort of generally be conferred by by analyzing state statutes and so the concept is that by virtue of their existence and an organization um they've sort of demonstrated an interest that could be sufficiently impacted such that the ido confers upon them this this idea of standing to appeal a decision of the epc the zag to bring that to council and to have that voice without any additional questions asked that may be asked upon others who would have the burden of proving standing as opposed to having it conferred automatically thank you councillor benjamin you're muted again any more comments or questions and then i'll go to counselor pena um yeah let's go to other counselors i would just in advance though say you know i'd like for the for the folks who spoke the key points of this of what they spoke to people who spoke today um to ask staff to to uh address those the ones that were not already addressed uh uh by uh gibson's questions and and the answers to those questions uh that she made um i think we we uh i would like to hear that you know we i agree we should discuss it and and uh address each of the questions uh that were asked in the general public comment and then i might have a few that i think we will still have from the letters thank you thank you councillor benton and councillor pena is next may i ask her to uh give us her question and then we'll we'll go through the the questions that were asked before are you okay with that counselor benton i'm sorry we didn't hear you counselor ben that's fine all right so counselor pena has it and then uh counselor gibson so counselor kenya um first question is um the motion on the floor is for a do pass yes ma'am okay so i'd like to to ask the um the sponsor if they would consider a no rack to full council just because this is such an important issue that i think that we should um discuss it amongst all the all the counselors it gives more time and more opportunity for input from the public as well that and then my other question is that to mr melendez is really in terms of being recognized you know the history of neighborhood associations and why an organization um and this is just to help to just clarify things in my head so if you have a neighborhood association can technically somebody start a neighborhood association and just not want to be recognized by the city and is the purpose of a neighborhood is so the recognition is because of the reasons you stated um previously but is it a requirement of being recognized does that does that make sense because if you live in a neighborhood and let's say i start a neighborhood association i decide not to get recognized through the city of albuquerque shouldn't i still um be afforded um notice if i'm within those boundaries and i'm an organization that has some interest madam chair um counselor pena so it so first of all i think the first question is can you start a neighborhood association um and and notwithstanding anything that the city has to say within its narrow and the question is is absolutely yes the narrow does not prevent anybody from organizing in the form of a neighborhood association um and engaging in any amount of community work or engagement the second question uh relates to whether or not you would you should have notice if you're sort of a neighborhood association that formed in that way and is not necessarily recognized so you would have noticed um sort of indirectly as an entity um because to the extent that any of your members are within the area that the ido or statute would require notice for then by virtue of your members then notice would would presumably come to you as an organization in which case you could take whatever action through your organization that you would deem to be fit in whatever decision making you know capacities that that you determine however um as an association you would not necessarily uh as an entity of a community entity own property or have an address associated with with anything related to ownership or renting or anything that city might have on file so as an entity you would not likely be noticed directly however your members would be again and sort of through that indirect route you'd have the ability to participate the difference with a recognized neighborhood association is that they would be notified directly through its leadership as opposed to relying on the individual members to sort of filter that up to the leadership yeah so if you have so really the the neighborhood um association recognition is basically started from a way a means to notice neighbors on zoning issues is that correct um madam chair counselor pena i'm i don't have that knowledge to be honest about what the original kind of thinking was or basis was but i know that that's definitely part of the the idea i mean i think sort of big picture um if the question is the city is going to uh recognize folks in some formal manner and what sort of minimum standards should the city be looking at in order to to recognize that group so that the group can be sort of viewed as having uh a process that the city can rely upon relative to democratic processes or otherwise such that um when that group gets noticed or represent itself before the city you at least have some understanding of what process went into uh when when they bring what process went into their recommendations or decisions when they bring that before you so then so then legally can we dictate how neighborhood associations operate if they're they're an entity can we you know and somebody mentioned you know naom earlier and said well may have comes in and whether they have influence or not i'm not that's not part of my question is that they come in they're obviously you know received notice somehow and it went up to change and they can't come to council and and they you know want their voices heard um but they have their bylaws their however they operate so then by us asking neighborhood associations to operate in a certain manner does that violate anything um that's an important question and and i think um the answer is is no but i think that it needs a little bit more explanation than that because uh by asking neighborhood associations that want to be recognized um to do certain things it's essentially a voluntary act on behalf of that neighborhood association if if you want to receive the notice and the automatic standing under the ido then the city is going to ask you to operate democratically to be inclusive to have fair voting practices to give appropriate notice to folks and in exchange for that if you're operating democratically and meeting those checking those boxes then the city is going to say you are going to get notice above and beyond what would be legally required to do and you're going to have the ability to participate without giving an extra explanation in land use matters about your interests and so if you if a neighborhood association chooses not to do those things then they can function in whatever capacity they want under whatever structure um they want and the city has nothing to say about that but the that that that's sort of a separate thing than what the narrow is attempting to do so no the city can't really dictate that but it can say to the extent that you want to participate in this program here's what you're going to be asked of you answer penny do you have any more questions i do it's just that my computer laptop is actually doing that whole it mutes itself again so when you see me doing this that's what's happening so i apologize so counselor gibson has questions after you also okay did you not have some follow-up counselor gibson okay thank you madam chair so with that so asking them to do a b or a b c and d in order to participate can we dictate how they do abc indy being democratic being you know madam chair uh counselor pena um one of the historic kind of i think challenges that has occurred with the narrow is that there has been a lot of i think ambiguity in the guidance because it's historically the narrow has said you should conduct yourself democratically um but inevitably that is such a um maybe an esoteric question and democratic process can be viewed in you know perhaps differently through to different lenses and so what the the narrow attempts to do is to um identify what minimum practice is and there's only a handful i mean i think that if you were to maybe have a a group of folks who are just you know thinking about democracy and what those processes look like that would be a very huge undertaking that that might look something like you know a constitution that is extremely complicated and detailed but in this instance i think what the narrow attempts to do at least to the extent that it's consistent with the ultimate policy decision of the council is to just identify a handful of things that would be the minimum benchmarks um so that neighborhood associations have clarity as to what the expectation would be and that the city has clarity um as to what its obligations are relative to recognizing folks in other words you know over time with the the change of staffing or people um there's some value in having consistency of direction within the narrow so that it's not a moving target as to what is meant by that democratic process so i think that's really what the narrow is attempting to do is identify a minimum handful of things which if met the onc has no discretion in denying recognition for and a neighborhood association at the same time has full predictability in what will be asked of them so when we have organizations so it so it's just kind of confusing right so i agree with what you're what you're saying i i understand that i mean being part of the neighborhood association coalition for for so long i know their issues would arise right like overlapping boundaries sometimes people didn't agree with the coalition that um that was there and then they expanded their boundaries to overlap like the boundaries of swan and that's no no respect to the west side coalition but that that was kind of a democratic process right i mean they wanted to so they kind of had the right to to you know expand their boundaries maybe because they didn't agree with our organization or whatever the case may be and so now we're we're going to say that you know well now you can't you can't do that but it's just so in doing this i just i just want to proceed with caution i just think that you know that would be the reason why i would go to full council because i'm looking at it like you know there's other organizations whether it be the hispano chamber whether it be the restaurant association they come and they you know um they have the same standing to me on level ground with neighborhood association business groups um you know folks like nap and so yet those organizations maybe aren't required to have the same standing that neighborhood associations are i'm just trying to work that out in my head in terms of how we view um people that come before us and sometimes some of the people that are with neighborhood associations come from marginalized communities maybe not you know whatever the case may be but i just don't i want you know them to be able to come to council and have their voices be just as loud as um other organizations that don't necessarily have to meet these requirements and if they do um and if they do have to meet these requirements then i think that the city should have kind of an allotment to be able to help neighborhood associations um be able to carry out these expectations that the the city has and and i would agree i know that you know sometimes people come but that's this is the same from any of the other organizations that was described sometimes people and i i know this from being involved but sometimes people speak for a lot a louder voice than what they've really actually maybe reached out to and then but that holds true for for other organizations as well so we don't know that you know like the hispano had a vote and who voted and why they voted or you know so i'm just i'm just trying to iron that i just want equity you know and just to to make sure that you know again people have those those voices that otherwise wouldn't that don't have the resources or ability that other larger organizations do thank you councillor pena um councillor gibson a question and then i would like to ask a question also counselor gibson thank you madam chair so counselor penny the last few minutes of what you've been talking about is exactly why i think this narrow is important and and why many of the the uh details in here are important because we you know democracy isn't really so much about the the majority although we talk about majority rule but it's to protect the minority and and this um this i i think that that several of the elements in this ordinance does attempt to do just that for example noticing of an annual meeting or noticing of any kind of a meeting you know there are several different ways to do that i i did just read this i can't remember exactly but it seems to me there's you have to do two of the two of those things you know like neighborhood signs email for example so and i can understand why a neighborhood association would uh would persis have the perception that this was being heavy-handed however if you look at all of the options there there are the options that are commonly used um they don't say you you can't do other things you can do other things too you knock doors i suppose if you wanted to but those are commonly used um easy to use fairly inexpensive to use but i think without that um element put in there neighborhood associations if left to their own devices they just might like send out an email to the email list and uh maybe not get everybody who has an email or maybe or maybe there are some people who who just don't use email for whatever reason have it and don't use it um so i think that this and then is in in this is and this i think is a pretty good example too because i i have seen this sort of pointed to as being uh an example of how nero is trying to you know take over neighborhood associations and dictate operations to them when in fact it's you can you can also look at it this way it is protecting my rights my neighbor's rights being included in that neighborhood association and the decisions that it may make so there's that way to look at it thank you thank you councillor gibson and uh if i may move in with a question now i would like to ask petra and then vanessa talk to us about the process that was used to since this seems to be a really some misconceptions and people aren't quite clear what happened here petra would you like to start ms morris chair counselors yes um i believe that this process started with uh the nep process the neighborhood engagement process which vanessa will be able to speak to in much more detail about the pretty extensive uh outreach that was done through that then subsequent to the nep councilor benton reviewed the recommendations of that and worked with council staff to work those recommendations from the nep into an initial draft of the narrow that initial draft was shared with the public with the neighborhood associations in january and february of this year and then council staff went through the pretty extensive and very helpful feedback that we got from the community and that that information was worked into the revised narrow that you have before you there's like this evening this afternoon um and those comments were then worked in so there has been both the formal nep process which vanessa's going to be able to tell you she's got it memorized and counts it in her sleep to help her fall asleep all the different meetings and ways that people were engaged on that one as well as the uh engagement that council of benton did on drafting this narrow and now the ongoing public process that is the council process thank you um thank you and miss uh would you like to uh talk about this a little more yeah you could probably do in your sleep i think i can at this point counselor yes so the neighborhood engagement process was started in 2017 uh the intent was obviously to revise the narrow and make it updated hadn't been updated since its previous when it was initially introduced in 1987 i think there had been very minimal updates sorry before we interrupt you because that went a little fast when was this initially written 1987 was when the original ordinance was but it was voted into law with no substantial uh very minimal very minimal updates at the end and sure sure um the net process itself started when the city council contracted two independent consultants to do outreach to city councillors to city departments to neighborhood associations hoas coalitions and individual residents who were not affiliated with their neighborhood association um 20 222 neighborhood associations were contacted 83 neighborhood associations did not respond to requests for information the other associations that did respond responded in a variety of ways they responded to uh flash pulling uh face-to-face interactions uh some surveys that were done a number of outreach events that were held at some of the community centers around town and in fact those outreach events were significantly where a lot of the feedback from the general public who are not neighborhood association affiliated came from and from all of that data and information came the uh nep reports that are available on our website and on the city council website as well just basically summarizing the information that was was gained by the contractors uh for the net process you know incorporating the feedback that neighborhood association folks gave and also incorporating ideas and feedback from the general public and from city councilors as well so the contractors gave a presentation and an overview of their findings to the city council in november of 2019 and our office me personally informed all of our neighborhood associations that this was going to be taking place and invited them to attend so they could have the overview of what the nab process found as well and we've also my office also published updates on the process in the neighborhood newsletter that was sent out city not sent out city-wide but available to all our neighborhood associations and the public city-wide and the updates to the nap and the subsequent reports are available on the website as well thank you that's a lot um i think that's any other questions from the counselors counselor benton would you like to close on this yeah madam chair thanks um and um i think the i think the staff has has uh seen the major points that were made that are recognized in the um in the public comment and i wanted to go through those uh briefly but um just to add a little bit more um you know as to naop i think that was one of the comments both written and uh spoken today um as an example that's a private organization they do not have land use recognition or standing um so we do not get involved in how they operate the same would go for any unrecognized neighborhood association or unrecognized coalition who wanted to form it also goes for homeowners associations one of the speakers spoke about that we cannot get involved in that the homeowner association is a private matter um if there's something happening within their association of course those individuals will have standing but uh the association itself would not have a standing in that and it it's very different um and it's a unique uh recognition to for for neighborhood associations and now coalitions to have that that uh that land land use case standing um and and that's a big reason a lot of neighborhoods exist to protect themselves from from uh bad development or whatever it may be of concerns that uh that have to do with the city and we depend on that i think that the city and the planning department the council do depend on on hearing from from groups but and if they come to a council meeting i'm certainly listening to everybody who speaks but if i hear from a recognized neighborhood association that is taking a position that's a big difference from from ad-hoc groups or groups that don't want to have a democratic process just want to do things their own way that's totally their right um but so that was a one big one i just wanted to give a little background on my involvement in it um certainly uh with the passage of the ideo this became important that we tackle this because the ido did increase this potential standing of neighborhood association so and then we had a number of events back in 17 where there were i guess to put it mildly and unfriendly take over by one neighborhood association with the territory of another um and um and the questions were raised in another case about just kind of the packing of a meeting with a group of people who uh who made a formal decision uh and that group also happened to be uh required to pay a uh a dues to to vote and and you know with the the the voting rights act or years ago the poll tax was event long before the voting rights act i think her preceding it uh the poll tax was eliminated in the united states i mean people should not have to pay to vote um they might it doesn't prevent any neighborhood from charging dues it's just that uh for for specific votes of people within those boundaries they do have to comply with those requirements so um counselor benjamin may i ask one more question before you wrap up please uh mr melinda is there's a question about moratorium putting a moratorium on this is there is that something that we would consider or could consider um madam chair it's the first i've heard of that uh proposal um generally a moratorium applies in the context of of a zoning issue where the city is is going to essentially put a pause on certain types of proposals within the community land use proposals in order for it to consider action that it might take to set better policy to deal with those types of proposals um i don't know if you want to clarify the if if you can clarify the the moratorium issue because i'm not familiar i don't know if i could they may be referring to the current the current uh special requirements for forming a new association they don't prevent forming a new association but but um that uh there's been certain limitations on the formations of new associations since uh since i think uh i can't remember exactly the year that that started but it had to do with this exact problem of overlapping boundaries and disputes of that sort i think councilman that was in 2017. yeah so um that has been and is still in place those do not prevent the formation of new recognized associations but uh ms baka could probably explain what it does do miss bacca would you like to address it yes of course the interim guidelines um do not prohibit the formation of new neighborhood associations in cases where their where neighborhood association would not have overlapping boundaries or in cases where a neighborhood association would be forming in an area where there was only coalition uh representation and in fact we did actually allow the creation of a new neighborhood association in council district 5 a year and a half ago i believe it was because they were in a very specific area where there were no neighborhood associations in any kind of proximity and there was just coalition representation and they wanted the ability to have that notification uh then get the notifications so we did allow the formation of that association thank you jared if i just add one i think important uh qualifier to to all the comments so far is that those limitations have been on only recognizing new associations so if a new association wants to form and get the newsletter from onc and get other services from the city that's always been available it's only the recognized that have been subject to the interim guidelines that prohibit essentially overlapping boundaries thank you mr velendras um unless there are other questions or more comments i think i'm going to go to counselor benton to close on this if you would please if you don't mind i would like to to just review a couple of and i was asking staff to kind of follow some of the the comments but during the public comment um um the the requirement for uh stating to a public body about how your decision was reached as a uh recognized association that is already in place if i'm not mistaken is that not correct correct it is in the isn't the current narrow counselor yeah we're not we're not completely thank you yeah so so we're not completely starting from scratch you know many of the provisions in here we're already in the narrow so hopefully everyone who's complaining about what we're doing at least know what is in the current narrow but um so that that is to answer that question um and then as to as to kind of start stopping and starting over you know uh it's a four it's been a four-year process some of the people most loudly complaining about stopping and starting over are people who purport to support large groups of neighborhoods i.e the inter-coalition panel folks and and other coalition people or people who spoke on the part of coalitions i spoke to the coalition in 17 and explained why we're doing this process for the west side coalition and specifically dr joe and one of the other folks uh miss adams who uh who spoke um and so uh you know we had to depend and with the outreach process we had to depend on existing organizations we could have some big meeting at the convention center and you know everyone go up and and speak but um that's not it i mean that's direct democracy is what we're being asked for and unfortunately you know that's not effective to come up with a new coordinates so um i did meet with the intercoalition panel in uh december of of 2019 right before the pandemic i made a commitment that we would put out any draft that they would be the first to see it which we did when when the first draft was finally released uh we made good on that commitment and once a draft is in place i made clear that i wanted to hear from them about what's wrong with it what they want to change give us specifics as as councilor gibson was saying that's what's needed but you know calling us criminals and saying that whatever you know i mean this is the reason that something like a public meeting it's not going to be effective um but that this committee process i'm committed that it proceed and uh counselor pena i'm i'm i'm going to move for a deferral and keep it in this committee where we can and hopefully we can get better participation from the public in in the next meeting maybe we should do it at five o'clock i'll just throw that out there i don't know whether that's better or worse but um but it's certainly we've had never had any attention of rushing this to the contrary it's taken a long time to get where we are and and we you know some of the folks who wrote had very specific questions with the ones regarding dudes and having some alternative to to that language i'm totally open to it and our staff is is at your service to answer these questions directly so um i ask that folks who are speaking that want to have some big meeting i i i just don't see how that's going to to serve anyone not everyone can attend these meetings um actually this venue is probably probably more participatory than we've had in the past but um uh yeah i i i want to say that that that there's never been any intention to ram anything through or uh that were somehow railroading this you know if if miss horvath i believe is um i hope her neighborhood is a member of their coalition but but uh i can't imagine that she'd never heard of this until now um councillor benjamin if you don't mind are we okay with moving a deferral then yeah i'll move the deferral i just want to be sure that that you know we've i was hoping that staff might have made note of some of the specific questions and now we might deal with them but but uh but you know i i i've asked the chair and she's considering putting this on uh for a special meeting on i think the 25th is that right madam chair i believe that's what we talked about we still haven't confirmed that but we'll certainly put out notice yeah so uh you know that would be specifically for this a second hearing of laps on that all right so that we can we can answer every question that's been raised thus far since since the previous you know round of comments and and then move this either without recommendation or with the recommendation of the full council so we will so we will defer this until the 25th or whatever date we come up with which we will publish is that where we are is that okay uh i will second that motion counselor there's a motion and a second to defer all in favor say yes counselor benton i can't adam chair yeah uh yes count mr miller would you take your vote just just to avoid any ambiguity could you please clarify the motion because i think you have two options you can defer to a date specific which would be a second meeting in lups and you would state that date today if you want to preserve you know that date then you would defer to the next meeting of lups in which case we would notice that meeting appropriately and place this on the agenda and that would be either a meeting to be noticed at the end of september i'm sorry at the end of august or the first meeting in september and it wasn't clear to me which one you were councillor benton and councillor jones you were moving and seconding thank you mr melinda's counselor benjamin do you have a preference on that do you want this a special meeting or do you want it to be in the next laps meeting my my request would be a special meeting on the 25th and then this would go to full council i will second that counselors any comment on that right there's a uh council opinion did you raise your hand okay there's a motion in a second to defer this this um ordinance till the 25th of this month yes councillor benton yes councillor gibson counselor gibson yes counselor pena yes councillor jones yes and that passes on a 4-0 vote thank you all i know this is a really big issue for us and councillor bench and i i appreciate your cooperation with as much as as we can get as much information out as possible thank you councillor so checking my calendar i have an ago meeting on the 25th at three o'clock uh two o'clock i'm sorry two o'clock so but maybe i can i'll try to get someone to substitute for me thank you thank you and there is also a we have a lups meeting if needed on the 25th so we could just put it in there correct okay so it will be scheduled unless there's other conflict for the um special lups meeting which we always hold for the second lips meeting on the 25th any comments on that everyone okay madam chair yes sir if we could if you would do be so kind as to maybe pull the members of the committee i i don't know whether it's a possibility to do it at five or if they think that's a better idea i don't just ask that maybe we collectively the leps meeting is scheduled for five oh it is yes on the 21st so i would earn the 25th so i would uh recommend that we go with what we already have on the calendar if everyone's all right very good all right thank you thank you um [Music] i think that takes care of that one yes let's move on to counselor pena and this is agenda item d r182 counselor pena thank you madam chair um r182 is establishing quarter improvements for 118th street from interstate 42 senator dennis chavez boulevard is a priority for the city of albuquerque funding processes encouraging the new mexico department of transportation to protect prioritize the approval and construction of an interchange at interstate 40 and 118. so i moved to pass there's a motion did you pass i don't see a second counselor benton i see a second there's a motion and a second on a due pass councilor pena would you like to give us any more information on that um yeah just 118th street you know there's always when you look at the southwest mesa i think it really describes it in the resolution in the southwest mesa um the way it was developed is that there's these kind of like hub neighborhood associations that feed into these arterial roads that feed into to major roads and basically um all the roads in the southwest mesa happen to be state state highways so it makes it really difficult and then those are limited access and um don't allow for a lot of retail in the area so we're really struggling for you know transportation how to get in and out of the district as you know it's had an explosion explosion explosive growth in the past and that's really the only part of the city where um we're going to grow into the future you know so we really have to look at some of the struggles that we're having as the lady mr rivera described earlier if you live at 118th and dennis chavez it's really a challenge to get to any near freeway and you actually have to kind of go out of your way in order to get there so you know this is in i think the 2040 plan and i think once if we pass this um resolution there's no funding associated with it and what it'll do is it'll just encourage us to start to look at means on how to get it done whether it be a study for funding how much it's going to cost those things associated associated with you know prioritizing prioritizing the street so i think it's an important road for the district um moving forward and if you are familiar with the way 118th is it's pretty much just mesa beyond that and there's really a desire from the community members they are they have they see illegal dumping they have all the dust that comes in from the mesa and one of the number one things i get asked is that you know for 118 to go all the way to central and then the other thing is is to really mitigate some of the issues that they're having because they abut um but the mesa there's again like i said the illegal dumping gunshots so i think this would really encourage um encourage more infill in the area which is good and that's one of our priorities is infill for the city of albuquerque but right now it's kind of a hodgepodge and it is city and county and one of the things that isn't in the resolution that i have an amendment for um is um the county is going to do the same thing so they already have that in the works to ask for it to be a priority it just wasn't stated in the resolution so i have an amendment i can move that now if you'd like um if i may ask one question uh councilor pena would you consider uh that we do this without recommendation so the entire council can weigh in on this this is a big issue and i'm not saying i'm opposed to it in any way it's just one of those things that this will be a lot of um street funding to be moved around that other areas of the city need to so i would think that perhaps it would be more appropriate for the entire council to be able to weigh in united i would absolutely um support that so i would amend my motion to reflect that it would be to full council without a recommendation thank you i appreciate that are there any other questions or or comments counselor benton thank you madam chair and um i do uh support sponsoring this and looked into it um and and i think there's a what what my biggest question i believe is um as as uh as council pena stated a lot of this is the county and it this is sort of a the alignment of this road is almost a boundary between city and county and some of it does go through county unincorporated county um and a lot of it goes through the city but um but certainly their plans and land use for the vacant parcels that abut i think is really important um and so not just the road planning or the support for a road but rather what are the plans for development along here because um i read the staff right up and i totally agree that you know actually if if anyone remembers i know cousin pena does i represented the area for about five minutes at one time and so i'm well aware of how difficult uh just shopping and getting basic services is in on the supplies mesa and so and fully support the idea that that we try to get more small business and local type businesses i know that big boxes are always interested the more we grow and you probably need more of those too in the area but um but the access is very difficult so um you know i was i'd like to encourage that that our that we talked to our respective planning departments land use planning departments as well as transportation departments and um and try to figure out what this would look like i know that uh western albuquerque land holdings is also on the southern end they own some of the property and there are other large land holders um who we don't really know they're from uh i believe california um and and that they own much of it as well and and just one other factor is um it was mentioned by by chair jones that you know these these federal monies and and these priorities are competing sometimes um but the uh the important thing is that we uh recognize our city policy in general uh the expecting development to pay for roadways so in this case um i think some sort of understanding of what those large land holders not not talking about small ones but but large land holders along the route uh would be expected to contribute so um so i i do see a lot of questions i i i would prefer that this stay in committee personally until we can get those questions answered and we can really you know the good thing about lups is we can really kind of dive in to the nuts and bolts of some of the proposals and what they mean as opposed to just moving it on i do think it merits more discussion so um i support the the motion of a uh no recommendation to counsel but i would like to move a deferral uh until our next i guess this would not be our next meeting if we're doing the special meeting but it would be the one in uh in october or september excuse me councillor pena i think that's something that you could respond to when we have one motion on the floor already councillor benton as a point of order this supersedes the existing question counselor penny do you have a preference on this i don't think my preference matters it's what counselor button said so it supersedes so i don't um i i you know what i don't want to support it i just think that you know and obviously it looks like it's gonna stay in committee anyway but um i just want to say that you know i think some of the questions that you're talking about counselor ben can can be addressed you know when we're looking at the levels of participation for the developer as you stated much of it is in this of the city if you look at the east eastern boundary it's pretty much developed all the way from dennis chavis um to central and it's all housing part of the problems that we're having is that we don't have these local areas of zoning so i would agree with you in terms of zoning i i don't think we can dictate what the county does in terms of zoning so i don't know i think we can add an amendment that says would encourage the county to look at you know future zoning for this area so i would support something something like that and then i mean you know when we talk about some of the issues that we're already and have historically had in the district is that if we were even to build the street there are still the impact fees as far as i know that would be added to the developer as they began to develop that and it's supposed to be um to cover the cost of those things associated with it right so um i i think we'd still have that flexibility but i don't think those impact fees would necessarily come back to to this to the city because it would if they're like i said it's pretty much residential and i don't think that we can turn around and ask um everybody who is on the on the eastern boundary that their back of their house um um abuts this area to then now have to pay for the gutter and and the like right so i think it's going to turn into more of a more of a county issue and then um um yeah so so i you know i would prefer to go to council without recommendation and then maybe man you can meet to discuss some of this but i think it's just a priority all the way around um i've talked to do a cave and i know you know about other projects that are priorities for all of the counselors in the area but you know talking to him and knowing that some of the federal dollars that are coming um coming down um you know he has mentioned that really one of the criterias is for them to really invest in areas that haven't been invested in historically and the southwest mesa is from um what he's indicated is one of those areas so i think for us to you know just at minimum get the ball rolling um you know this isn't going to happen overnight but i think the discussion needs to be had were kind of locked in in the area there's not a lot of retail um the like i said any of the major roads in and out are state roads um so we're having we're having some tremendous issues and i think that this being a actual um non-state road it would really benefit the community in lots of ways again like mr rivera mentioned at 118th and dennis chavez if you're there and you're having some issues and trying to get out dennis chavis is closed and everything's backed up on amole mesa you actually have to go west very very far just to get to i-40 that's a long drive where there's nothing counselor pena if i may i think um councillor benton's um i and i know all of these things are very essential and important but uh councillor benton i think you have a motion on the floor that would supersede and did you is there a second uh counselor gibson a second of that motion um councilor pena we're going to get another chance or two to talk about this so uh counselors is a motion in a second to [Music] defer to defer till then to the next meeting so until september all those in favor say yes counselor benton yes counselor gibson yes counselor pena no counselor jones yes this item is deferred to september the 15th on a four zero four one or three one vote i'm sorry thank you everyone oh i believe that this there being no further business let me first apologize for not having my full attention tonight i will get back to robert's rules next time so the meeting is adjourned thank you