[0:28] (Ambient Noise) [0:58] (Ambient Noise) [1:28] (Ambient Noise) [1:58] (Ambient Noise) [2:28] (Ambient Noise) [2:58] (Ambient Noise) [3:28] (Ambient Noise) [3:58] (Ambient Noise) [4:58] **Chair Bruce:** Good evening everyone to the uh Planning Commission meeting for August 19th. Turn the volume up, Sam. Can you hear? [5:17] **Chair Bruce:** Uh, roll call. Hemma? **Jesse Hemma:** Here. **Chair Bruce:** Johnson? Absent so far. Uh, I'm here. Fox? **Fox:** Here. **Chair Bruce:** Nobo? **Chris Nobach:** Here. **Chair Bruce:** Can I get an approval of the agenda? **Jesse Hemma:** I move to approve the agenda. **Fox:** Second. **Chair Bruce:** Move by Hemma, second by Fox to approve the agenda. Any further discussion? All in favor say I. (I). Opposed? Carries. And I get a motion to approve the minutes from July 8th? **Chris Nobach:** So moved. **Jesse Hemma:** Second. **Chair Bruce:** Motion by Nobach, second by Hemma to approve the minutes from July 8th. Any further discussion? All in favor? (Hi, hi). I oppose? Motion carries. Okay, the next thing on the agenda is the public input. Everybody that's signed up for this looks like they're signed up to talk about either the track or the church, so that won't be in public input, that will be during the public hearing. So anybody else wishing to talk on anything other than those two items can step forward now; otherwise, we'll wait till the public hearing. Okay, so we'll dispense with the public input. [6:47] **Chair Bruce:** Okay, the next item up on the agenda is a vacation of Right of Way for Mr. James Hery. And I will note that uh commissioner Committee Member Johnson has now arrived, so we have a full slate. Zach, if you can fill us in on the vacation application of James Hery. [7:33] **Zach (City Planner):** Yeah, so the city received an application to vacate an alley. There should be a map of what it specifically is going to be vacated in your packet, but essentially it's the alley between Fifth and Fourth Street and Ohio and Washington Street. Um, the majority of the residents who live up in that area have signed a petition um in favor for the vacation. The alley is a site of a future storm water project um and currently it acts as a drainage easement for all those lots that are up there. Um, I talked to our city engineer and he didn't see anything specifically wrong with uh you know vacating that alley, but he did kind of express that we would want to maintain a blanket easement over I believe it's 16 feet—the width of that alley. Um, but that is kind of the some background about it. Happy to answer any questions you have. [8:20] **Chair Bruce:** So um with that I will open up the public hearing. Anybody wishing to talk to the vacation of the Right of Way, please step forward to the mic. Second call—anybody wishing to speak on the vacation? Third and last call—anybody wishing to speak on the vacation of the alley for James Hery? Hearing none, I'm going to close the public hearing. Uh, discussion committee? I've I've talked to Jim about it, and uh—I lost him in the crowd here—and he's he's aware if it does get vacated, he still has to—we're still going to have a a drainage easement through there because in our one of our next planning drainage plans, we're going to have to go through there to drain that. So um, Jim—Jim's aware of that and he has no issues with that part. So um, I guess whatever... [9:53] **Jesse Hemma:** Does that easement come with the the contingent like you can't build anything permanent on top of that easement? **Chair Bruce:** Jim's aware of that. Okay. Um, are we allowed to ask Jim, since he didn't do the public hearing, are we allowed to ask what you plan on doing with that property or anybody else applying? Jim, you want to step forward? [10:20] **James Hery:** I'm not going to use it other than the fact I'm probably going to put a carport next to my garage, and uh with a setback of 5 feet from an alleyway, the carport would be really close to the garage. When the snow comes, it's hard to get two to three feet to clean the snow between the garage and the carport. So I thought if it was vacated, it it would gain a couple extra feet. That was a reason for it. It's it's it's wasted land anyway; nobody's going to use it. But I understand it needs a drain back there because it's it's a low area and I accept the the uh easement of doing that. [11:06] **Chair Bruce:** Okay. Does that answer your question? **Jesse Hemma:** That's all I had for him. **Chair Bruce:** Anything else? **Jesse Hemma:** I have a couple more questions. Okay, so does it get split 50/50 then? Property owners split 50/50 on the easement? **Zach (City Planner):** That's right, yeah. So he would—Jim would get eight feet of it, I believe it's 16 feet, 17 feet. So it does go to the adjacent property owner, so that's kind of right down the middle. If they didn't sign for it, then that won't be part—won't be vacated. But there should be a map that kind of shows exactly in your packet what... **Jesse Hemma:** And then does this end up getting replatted? Does somebody have to come out and survey this and replat it and pay for those services at all? Is the city on the hook for that? **Zach (City Planner):** City won't pay for it, but it does need to be brought to the county, yeah. **Jesse Hemma:** So is that on Jim and everybody else that applied, or who pays? **Zach (City Planner):** The county pays for it or... okay, gotcha. **Chair Bruce:** Any other questions? Bruce, anything? Well, I'm going to make a motion to approve the vacation. **Diane Johnson:** I’ll second. **Chair Bruce:** Motion by Hemma, second by Johnson to approve the vacation except for to retain the easement. Any further discussion? All in favor? (I, I). Opposed? Motion carries. [12:18] **Chair Bruce:** Okay, the next thing we're going to discuss is the lot split for Artisan Plaza. Zach? [12:28] **Zach (City Planner):** Yeah, so the owner of the Artisan Plaza is hoping to split off the northern roughly 26,000 square feet of his property um down there off Fourth Street. Since the county does maintain control of Fourth Street, he had them reach out to the county and they did approve the uh the access there, granted there's pending a couple um—I think it's three—three stipulations that the uh the owner is happy to meet. Um, the new lots, or the new lot excuse me, does conform to the B2 standards. Um, and the applicant has also agreed to add 10 new parking spaces to the already existing lot um so it stays in compliance. I added a list of some of the permitted and conditional uses in the B2 Zone um so those are some things that could be put on that northern lot. But I believe Kevin is—he's here if you guys have any questions for the applicant. [14:15] **Chair Bruce:** Uh, can you come up to the podium, Kevin? **Kevin Manley:** My favorite thing, come up here right in front of everybody. Absolutely. No, I dressed up for it though. **Chair Bruce:** Do you have a bumper for a '69? No, never mind. **Kevin Manley:** Yeah, I do have a bumper for a '69 Mustang. You're right. **Chair Bruce:** So uh, I was reading through some of your uh emails and stuff and your planning to put a possibly a drive-thru coffee thing in there, shop? **Kevin Manley:** I'd like to, some—not not immediately, but I'd like to, like three, four years down the road, right? Yep. **Chair Bruce:** Okay. So uh, if that doesn't work and you—is there something else that maybe you were thinking about doing with that lot? **Kevin Manley:** So you're looking for me to have a plan and a contingent plan? Well, I'm lucky just to have a plan. I'm just I'm just looking you in the eye and say no, but I but I but I figured I’d have to come back through the city council and Planning Commission to get it approved anyway. So yeah, at that time—no, I don't have a contingent plan, no. But um... **Chair Bruce:** Okay, so um... I don't think that matters, yeah, but I like talking to Kevin. So, you guys should come over the shop sometime, I'll talk to you. But uh Zach, as far as the the um—I looked through it and the lot size, the dimensions are fine to split, right? Greater than 20,000 feet, width of 80 feet, should be long? **Zach (City Planner):** Yeah, everything should should be in place there. I think the parking spaces were the immediate worry, but he's agreed to to add 10 new spots. **Chair Bruce:** And then um—was my other question—um and I I did see, and I think you alluded to it, as far as the—you're probably going to have to move the driveway? **Kevin Manley:** Yes. North. Yes. **Chair Bruce:** And then that driveway will split the properties, right? **Kevin Manley:** Right. It'll split the properties, yep. But I won't do that till I figure out exactly what's going to go in there. **Chair Bruce:** So, and then say someday you sell one one part or the other, there's going to have to be an agreement as far as access with that to each property? **Kevin Manley:** Yes. We have to get one of those attorneys involved, dang it. **Chair Bruce:** It's all the questions I had. I would uh—on the map can you can you ballpark where where the split is going to take place for me? [17:02] **Zach (City Planner):** So the the new the new lot is 80 feet? **Kevin Manley:** 80 feet, correct. Yes. **Zach (City Planner):** If you look at there's a there's a survey um of the whole property, yep, and that southern one—parcel two—that's the existing, or that's everything's existing, but he wants to split off what's parcel one. Um, so if you—right next to the John Deere equipment there—first 80 feet, yep, just right here roughly, yep. [17:46] **Diane Johnson:** Hey, a question. So you're not going to move the driveway until you decide what to do with the northern lot? **Kevin Manley:** That's right. **Diane Johnson:** Okay. Is that going to be a problem if you were to sell both lots? I know one of the—that you can't have any future accesses off what's going to be proposed. So are you—if if he sells it, you're saying is that going to be a problem? **Zach (City Planner):** Yeah. Didn't sound like the engineer or engineer from the county was concerned about that as long as there was—as long as it's not landlocked obviously. But um... **Kevin Manley:** To answer your question, if I sold either parcel, I'd probably have to move the driveway before I could before I could sell one or the other. Okay. I mean that would be—I mean, I don't know that for sure, but that's—that would be the common sense thing in my opinion. It'd have to be done first, otherwise it'd just be a problem later on. **Diane Johnson:** And then it would have to be an agreement between both landowners? **Kevin Manley:** That's right. Because the county's not going to allow—unless you had an agreement with the new guy that purchased it, tell them it's going to happen in the future or something and you had it drawn up, would be the only only way around that, I guess. **Jesse Hemma:** I'm I'm just curious why this is coming to us now if your plan is to do this in three or four years? You know, it kind of seems a bit premature that you don't have a site plan. I I know you have the survey for the parcel to come off, but you know I guess I'm just curious... I love the idea of a coffee shop there for sure, I would use it but... **Kevin Manley:** Sold! I I'll hold you to that, I certainly would. Um, well, I I just came in to do a lot split and then the city said, "Well, you have to have some some reason for doing I mean you know why are you doing it?" It's like, well, I want another business there. And they go, "What are you what are you going to do?" And then so I came up with a business that uh I want to do down the road. Everything takes so much time anyway. I mean, this has already been a year in process. What if I wanted to do it you know a year ago? It’d still be sitting here waiting. I'll be ready for it now, right? **Jesse Hemma:** I guess I'm just curious. I mean, what if you know what if you don't build a coffee shop there? What if you build a different business? You have to come back here, or what if you walk away? Then we have two parcels there and one may not be suitable for someone else to come in. I'm just... **Kevin Manley:** Well, you you could say that about any parcel. I met all—I met all your everything the city asked me to do. I met every single thing. There's no—I'm not asking you to make any variances. So you guys set up the code and I followed it. That's what I did. So there's no reason you guys shouldn't approve it because I did what you asked me to do. Just like you could go through every parcel in the city and say that exact same thing. [20:34] **Chair Bruce:** After the after the lot split, the 80 foot wide is within our whatever, so... **Kevin Manley:** Right. That's that's your guidelines, right? I followed your guidelines 100%. I'm not asking for any variances whatsoever. And and everything moves so slow, not only in this city but every city. So you want to do things in advance. So when you when you decide... I move fast when I want to do something; I want it done like right now. So it it doesn't work that way. You know, I'm not going to wait a year after I decide what I want to do to get to get something going. I may decide next spring to do it you know, then I have to wait another year after that to get it done. I don't want to do that so... **Jesse Hemma:** I just want you to understand the risk, too, of what's go—what happens here. Because if you come back here and ask us for a variance—we just had this go down with Dollar General—we approve variances, Council said they would not approve any variances for new construction. **Kevin Manley:** So I'm not asking for any variances. **Jesse Hemma:** I understand that, I'm just saying in the future. **Kevin Manley:** Dollar General—I mean, that's right across my car wash. It brings me more business! What the heck. But I just wanted you to be aware of that, that Council shot that down. **Chair Bruce:** And that's the thing. If you—somebody told me the mayor did, but I don't know if you... **Jesse Hemma:** Well, yeah. Sorry, yeah. But if you don't have a plan in place and you come back later and you're asking for a variance, that's a risk you're willing to take. **Kevin Manley:** At some—I'm willing to take that, absolutely sir. **Jesse Hemma:** So uh so what's the benefit of doing the lot split? Why not just why not just build it? **Kevin Manley:** Well, because if I want to—if I want to keep one and sell one, then I you know... okay, I have two different properties there. **Jesse Hemma:** Gotcha. **Kevin Manley:** So if I build a separate business there, you know, then I have to sell them together? You want to buy a coffee shop and a commercial building all at one time? Yep. Yeah, you do. No, personally I'm just kidding. Um... I don't think you have the right price (Laughter). [22:42] **Diane Johnson:** I just need to go back... Diane, the person that couldn't find the parking spot. I know, I um—I'm I'm only—I mean everything seems fine to me except the driveway. So if you were to sell the south lot yes, prior to that sale, would we require the driveway to be moved because otherwise the new owner could say, "I'm not moving my driveway"? **Kevin Manley:** Well, it'd either require to have it moved or have something written up you know by an attorney that's that's binding, you know, one of the other I guess you know. Sounds like the county won't allow three access points down there. Yeah, and I understand that. I would—if I was them, I wouldn't allow that either. I mean who wants who wants all those you know exits coming off there you know. We already have one exit for the Artist on the south side and have one split on this side over here is no problem. And I understand that completely, yeah. **Diane Johnson:** Other than that, I think it sounds good. **Kevin Manley:** Perfect. **Diane Johnson:** And I probably would have found a parking place. **Kevin Manley:** Sir, there's a lot of cars out there. I didn't know there's many people in Cannon Falls. [23:39] **Scott Lansman (City Attorney’s Office):** Mr. Chair. **Chair Bruce:** Mr. Chair, yes. **Scott Lansman (City Attorney’s Office):** Um, just so you know, any lot that's going to be created has to be conforming to city code, which does not include any landlocked piece of property. So there has to be access to it; there has to be the frontage, there has to be width and uh square footage. And that's—and that was signed off by the Goodhue County engineer, correct? **Zach (City Planner):** The driveway has to be moved. Driveway's got to be put in. **Chair Bruce:** So then the question is, are you going to be able to move the driveway? **Kevin Manley:** Can I move the—absolutely, I can do anything you bet. **Chair Bruce:** But that has has to be after this becomes official. He's got to move that driveway, or can you wait till it's... **Scott Lansman (City Attorney’s Office):** He's got to put it in to split it, okay? Should be in to split it. You can't create a non-conforming lot. **Kevin Manley:** I can't put it in before you guys approve it, of course. Although I've considered that kind of stuff before. Never done it, obviously. **Chair Bruce:** So we're—can we approve the lot split with the caveat that he's going to move that driveway, correct? County's already already have that in their stipulations. You guys can put down an addition, but they already have that. **Scott Lansman (City Attorney’s Office):** Mr. Chair, you can you can uh approvals can be made conditional. And so you can—the city council can approve the the subdivision, the lot split, and then not and not release the—because typically it's either by a letter or or a stamp in the deed, and not release that until those conditions have been met. **Kevin Manley:** So this the the approval and actually the split are two separate parts. Moving that driveway is not a big deal; it's not not like we're moving the Eiffel Tower here or something. **Chair Bruce:** Okay, but so we can approve it subject to that condition, or do we have to wait and have them move it? **Scott Lansman (City Attorney’s Office):** No, you—Mr. Chair, members of the commission—um you can uh you can make the approval with that condition or any other condition that you want on there. Um, and so it's a—it's a conditional approval. And so this the the actual the approval is there, and then he has to meet these the conditions A, B, and C prior to being able to record a deed that would split the uh the property. **Chair Bruce:** Okay, that's okay. **Kevin Manley:** Well, the county already has that on there so I mean of course that's okay, because whether you guys put on there or not, it's already required by the county. [26:22] **Jesse Hemma:** I guess I have a a question for the committee here. Um, you know, the way Zach wrote this up, it says that in order to ensure the lot split is for the purpose of accommodating a future business, a resolution may be drafted to tie the property owner to this request. So are we going to propose a resolution or a caveat for him to—you need—if we're going to split this, you need to put a business there? Are we just going to split it and he's allowed to do whatever he wants with it or... **Chair Bruce:** If it's a conforming lot, our our job tonight is not to decide what business is going to be there. We just decide whether it's conforming to our standards. **Jesse Hemma:** Okay. **Chair Bruce:** And once the driveway is moved, it is. **Kevin Manley:** Okay, but all businesses are going to be required to be approved by the city anyway, you know. So when a business does go in there, it's not like I'm putting a strip club in there and just saying huh! I'm putting in whatever I want you know, I have to come back and get approval from you guys anyway, or somebody at the city at least. Does it conform with what you want you guys right? **Jesse Hemma:** Thinking... make that motion? Uh, if if there's nothing else, I'd like to move to uh uh approve it—approve this uh amendment subject to the condition of the... that's right. I don't care about that. That's a moot point, correct? County's already requiring it. **Scott Lansman (City Attorney’s Office):** The this—Mr. Chair, members of the commission—the regardless of what recommendation or requirements that the county has, the city controls subdivision. And so the city would need to put that condition on there uh with regard to access that conforms with city code and the requirements of the county. **Chair Bruce:** So you want me to make a motion to approve this upon uh the resolution that he does uh subject to the movement of the driveway? **Jesse Hemma:** Uh, I move that we uh accept this motion upon the condition of the approval of the movement of the driveway. Is that okay with you? **Chair Bruce:** Yes. See those attorneys make everything hard, don't they, huh? Well... **Fox:** Second. **Chair Bruce:** Move by uh Fox, second by Johnson to approve the lot split subject to the condition of the driveway movement. There any discussion? All in favor? (I, I). Opposed? Motion carries. **Kevin Manley:** Steve, don't forget to come over to my shop and look around, okay? I need that bumper. **Chair Bruce:** All right. I got one. That wasn't a bribe or anything but... okay, I think that's all we had for tonight. [29:25] **Chair Bruce:** Okay, so the next up on the agenda is text Amendment for Bethel Rock Church. Uh, did you want to speak to that? **Scott Lansman (City Attorney’s Office):** Sure. Um, Mr. Chair and members of the commission... um my name is Scott Lansman, I'm with the Cannon Falls City Attorney's Office. Oh, sorry, is that better? **Chair Bruce:** Okay. You should have a really loud voice. **Scott Lansman (City Attorney’s Office):** Um, what I'm going to talk about is going to be general and impacting um both items. Um, before you today are two zoning text amendment applications to add uh certain conditional uses to particular zoning districts. It should be important to know that the decision to to add a conditional use to a zone um is for the entire zone and not just for a specific spot or piece of property. The applications are whether the uses should be added as conditional uses to the particular zoning district. It is not a consideration of any particular project. If the zoning text amendment is enacted, the application for a conditional use permit will come at a later date. So you need—it needs to be allowed in the zone first before an application can be made for an actual project. Under city code there are certain criteria you must consider reviewing the applications: Is the proposed conditional use consistent with the comprehensive plan? Is the proposed conditional use compatible with present and future land uses of the area? If the conditional use is both consistent and compatible, then a determination must be made as to the conditions that would be placed on any approved conditional use—and again these are general, not looking at a specific project. City code section 152.03, which is found in the agenda packet—it’s in the uh I believe it’s in the uh staff reports—performance standards for all conditional use permits. So these are conditions that would apply to any conditional use permit, and then the city code may also provide specific conditions for any particular conditional use. In your packet, um city code is city code section 152.523 is just an example of specific conditions for a church conditional use permit. This is in the R2 zoning district. All general conditions would apply to said—all conditional use permits. The commission needs to decide on any specific conditions, and that's why we provide you those examples. Any approved zoning amendment to add conditional uses will include those specific conditions. So um so in summary: the zoning text amendment is for the entire zone and not just a specific piece of property or spot or specific project. The commission must consider if the proposed zoning text amendments to add conditional uses is consistent with the comprehensive plan and compatible with present and future land uses in the area or district. If the answer is yes, then there needs to be discussion on any specific conditions that must be reasonable and connected to the conditional use. If a zoning text amendment is enacted by the city council, the next step would be for applications to be made for a conditional use permit for the specific property or project, which would be back back before the commission. Are there any questions? [33:15] **Chair Bruce:** Okay. Zach? **Zach (City Planner):** Yeah, so Bethel Rock Church has applied for an ordinance text amendment to um amend the code in the B2 General Highway General business uh district to allow religious institutions via a conditional use permit. Um, if the amendment is approved tonight, uh they would still need to apply for a conditional use to operate in the Grand O2 um Event Center. I called some of the uh surrounding communities—Red Wing, Zumbrota, Wanamingo, Mazeppa, Kasson, Pine Island, Northfield, Kenyon, Faribault—um to kind of see what where religious or institutions or churches were located in their cities. Um, as you can see, the churches are a CUP in most their what would be their equivalent to our B2 Zone. Um, some are are permitted as well. Um, I would urge Planning Commission to follow the guidelines of approval laid out in city code 152.57 when addressing the criteria for text amendment decisions. But um yeah, if there's any questions, happy to happy to answer. [34:31] **Chair Bruce:** Okay. With that I'm going to open up the public hearing. Anybody wishing to speak on the text Amendment for Bethel Rock Church, uh please step forward. **Pastor Brandon Newville:** Hello. Uh, oh wow, that’s a good one. Uh, thanks again for giving me the opportunity to come speak again. Um, my name is Brandon. I'm the lead pastor of Bethel Rock Church, Cannon Falls. Uh and today I would like to address really the significant issue of the zoning regulations in Cannon Falls and the potential for a church to operate within the B2 Zone. I stand before you not only as a pastor of the community but also somebody who lives here, somebody who moved here this year that—I have five children that I want to raise within this community, and I'd love to be just not only a part of Cannon Falls, but for the church that we've planted here to also be a part of of Cannon Falls. Um, to advocate for the approval of Bethel Rock Church in the B2 Zone, or really any religious institution under conditional use to operate out of a B2 zoning. And I believe that there are compelling reasons that would support this. Firstly, churches contribute positively to the community's well-being. They're not just places of worship but also centers for social services, community support, and local events. By allowing a church to operate in the B2 Zone, Cannon Falls would be uh embracing the opportunity for enhanced community engagement. We also offer programs that support youth, children, counseling services, and we would—we also organize charitable events and activities and much, much more—all of that benefit—would benefit the community and foster a sense of unity and support within everybody. Secondly, churches and businesses are not mutually exclusive. The B2 zone is designated for various commercial use and business activities. Currently under the permitted uses, it allows for a theater, offices, clinical counseling centers, hospitality, community daycare. Under conditional use, um those are all currently allowed in the current zoning, but it does not preclude uh the inclusion of religious institutions that serve really a public good. Churches as religious institutions often function with similar community-oriented goals as local businesses, including creating economic activity through events and attracting visitors to the area. I mean, I even have people here today that have moved to Cannon Falls or are going to be staying in Cannon Falls just because uh they found community within our church and where we've been operating. Um, so allowing a church in the B2 Zone can stimulate positive activity and contribute to the local economy rather than detach from it. We, as a religious institution, are just requesting that we would have equal footing uh with other public assemblies, that we would be treated the same as any other public assembly within B2. Moreover, the presence of a church can enhance property values and neighborhood appeal. Studies have shown actually that areas with well-maintained, active churches often increase property values and increase increase negative—I mean neighborhood conditions. This can lead to more uh vibrant, attractive businesses to—to residents and really the businesses in the area. The church would also uh be a stable long-term tenant within B2 once we—once we plant roots. This is where we plan on staying. That's why I wouldn't have moved my whole family here if I didn't intend on on being here for the long haul. Um, Cannon Falls would be—really be demonstrating its commitments to this inclusivity. Um, finally, zoning flexibility promotes inclusivity. The B2 zone can encompass a variety of uses that benefit the community. Zoning regulations are designed to be flexible and they are designed to accommodate needs. By allowing the religious institution to operate in this zone, Cannon Falls would be demonstrating a commitment to inclusivity and willingness to adapt zoning laws to better serve the evolving needs of of the residents, as you see here today. Uh, all of that to say, allowing a church to operate in B2 zone is not only beneficial but also aligns with the values of the community support. It it aligns with with what we could do uh for the economy and inclusivity. I urge you to consider those points and the text amendment. I also brought this evening various things that support uh us being passed. So I actually spent the last few weeks uh since the last time I was here um talking to actually businesses that are currently zoned within the B2. Um and I brought uh letters if you'd like to see them of business owners to include Kevin Manley right here—he owns three businesses within our own community, from the Artisan Plaza to the Muddy Duck, as as well as his his uh his car place. As well as I I have uh I have letters from—excuse me, I got I got uh letters from—make sure I got the right ones here—from uh Banks Outdoors, Marlene Banks filled one out from Banks Outdoors. I have one from Kevin. I have one from Josh over at IED Valve. I have one from the owner of Indie Specialty who used to own and operate that building. I have one also from the Valley View Recovery Center um from Matta Maguire over there. Um and really, even though I didn't always receive uh a letter from each person, because if you're a business owner you know your time is worth a lot, uh I I did also talk to 20 roughly—with these five included—that said that they would support us. People that surround that current B2 that really if you if you look at that map, I talked to people that are zoned within the same area that say that they would support us being there. Um and those are businesses that are currently operating within B2. They're in full support of us being, or just religious institutions in being in B2. I've also brought with me today uh as as Zach has already previously mentioned uh different zoning regulations of different municipalities uh surrounding that that do allow for religious institutions with like-minded things. I also brought with me today, if you would like to take a look at this, um I I brought two examples of cities that actually had uh went against—and I know I brought this up that first June meeting—but the Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act (RLUIPA), and I just wanted to read how similar some of these are. The United States versus Waukegan, Illinois, in 2008: Department of Justice brought legal action uh under RLUIPA equal terms provisions against Illinois city with respect to exclusions of places of worship and commercial districts that have that permitted clubs, lodges, meeting halls, and theaters. After the town notified the small churches—so you—we're not there yet, but it would be the same—the Department of Justice reached uh a consent decree within the city requiring it to allow religious assemblies on an equal footing as other public assemblies. And again uh in 2015, United States versus St. Anthony Village: um U.S. Department of Justice in initiated legal action against the city of St. Anthony alleging the city's failure to permit an issue of an Islamic Center to open prayer in the basement of an office building located in a light industrial violated RLUIPA. The department of justice had claimed that the denial uh imposes substantial burden and that allowing assemblies meeting lodges and convention halls but not religious assem—assemblies also violated uh the RLUIPA. So the federal court in Minneapolis entered a consent order permitting the congregation to be able to utilize that. So these are just examples. I also have examples of other churches uh within a 25-mile radius that have also gotten text amendments that have been approved. Uh from as recent as in 2021 July—uh 2021 Eaglebrook Church received a zoning amendment to add a church to the list of uses in plan development in the 646 Zone 1, and it was approved. I have the minutes in the meeting with me as well as the text amendment that was passed. So the same type of a situation that we're going through today. As well as uh actually just currently this year July 7th of this year um River Valley Church was approved in Egan, Minnesota, to be approved under which they call it's—it's a conditional use, but the further go into it I also have the minutes from that meeting to better explain and show you that it was very typical in line with the text amendment that they changed because under their current zoning they didn't allow for churches within that current zoning. Also as you're aware, this is our third month back here. We are doing first and foremost whatever we can to work with the city. We're we're not trying to come against anything. We just want to be able to as as a church operate in the building that we're currently under uh purchase agreement with. And there really are no other options viable within the community for a new church to come into town with this building that we're currently under contract with. Uh, it would give us that opportunity. Um uh and really it would be the perfect thing for us in town. That being said, I was aware that last month you stated you would be against spot zoning, and and I get—I get the spot zoning. Really we only went for a spot rezone or tried to rezone last month because that's what we were—was suggested to us. But you did state that you don't spot rezone, and just looking at your own minutes in the past, I mean really if you look at uh if you look at your zoning map uh right here uh you have right here R4 R4 that you guys rezoned. That's right within B2. So you denied our rezone but you've done it in the past, and when you look at the minutes it's for different alternate reasons, whatever that may be. But you've done that in the past. And then I've also have um I also have minutes from a meeting uh that—minute from a meeting uh approving a text amendment uh in regards to the Valley View Recovery Center as well. And so you guys have already done that as well. So I just want to say we're not trying to come in and say we want to do what we want—that's not it—but we we believe that with the like-minded businesses being able to operate out of that uh we would like for you to consider to allow for us for religious institutions to operate out of that same same B2. So I just want to say thank you so much for your time and your consideration, and God bless. Thank you. Oh yeah, and the same thing when it comes to the comprehensive plan of the city. I don't believe that us being a church operating in that would really go against any of that uh especially since we're not even pushing out the person that is currently the only one within the facility which is the Grand O2 Center. Uh we would actually—they would continue to operate and then we would move in upstairs. So I don't think it would go against any sort of the planning; in fact, I think it would bring more life back to that area and that's that's what I got repeatedly when I talked to everybody who's currently operating within the B2. Every single person said that they would love it to be there because it would bring life back to that side of 52, that it would bring light, that it would even be an opportunity for somebody to come back in and be back in the Dairy Queen Center or something like that with us being over there. Thank you. [45:40] **Chair Bruce:** Thank you. Um, question... the next uh next one up we're going to we're going to try to limit people to three minutes or less. **Eric Johnson:** Thanks for giving me a moment. Um, first of all I want to apologize for reducing the entertainment value compared to previous speakers. **Chair Bruce:** Let's get names and addresses. **Eric Johnson:** Sure, so your name and address please? Full name Eric Johnson. Um, address is 7667 337th Street Way, Cannon Falls. Um, yeah so Pastor Brandon when he was up here um mentioned um families relocating uh to the community as a result of Bethel Rock Church. My family and I um are actually among them. Um and the church—I mean, not that this is what we're here for—but the church has been um impactful for us and I think really what I'm trying to say is it's a testament to the ancillary benefits that a church can have in a local economy um beyond you know what may appear from just looking at um the site. Um our church um like most of the churches in the area are made up of lifelong Cannon Falls residents, um visitors to the area who actually drive in for church, um people who are relocating to the area. I happen to know three or four other families in our church looking to do the same thing. Um which I think is helps corroborate um some of the studies that have actually been done on a church's economic benefit for a community. Um a recent study found that um the average local church of our size brings in about $2 million um to a local community in additional um revenue spent in local businesses in the area. Um a church can actually provide um another million dollars of economic benefit by way of some of those community services that um Pastor Brandon was describing—whether that be um counseling services or recovery groups or you know you name it—some of the different um service opportunities that we take up in the city like we already um do and look to continue. Um Pastor Brandon mentioned this a bit as well, but uh studies actually show that a church in the local area um for the next like mile radius surrounding actually does lift property values by on average about 6.4%. Um as I understand it, all of the major surrounding communities in our area um already have this similar zoning enacted, making Cannon Falls somewhat isolated in this regard in terms of how we zone for religious institutions. Um I think uh something else that was brought up in the last commission meeting that I attended um was the concerns of what happens if our church decides to move on. Um obviously we would consider that a worst-case scenario. We hope to be um in the local community as a staple um for decades to come, like some of the other churches in our community today. Um um should that happen though, I truly believe that the community is still better off um for our presence there in part because of um the improvements we're looking to do to make the building uh usable again for our um our usage as a church—property improvements, not just the jobs that will be created in the local area, but also um essentially enhancing the property value of the actual um building itself um whether we were to vacate or not. Um and again um we do seek a conditional use permit, so we're—you know, another thing that was brought up in that original meeting was opening the floodgates. Um but um as we would have to stand before you again to um have our own conditional use permit um decided. Um so then with all the businesses to follow us or institutions. So um appreciate the time this evening. Thank you. [50:03] **Caleb Anderson:** Hello, my name is Caleb Anderson. Address is 12535 335th Street, Goodhue, Minnesota. Um I have lived in Cannon Falls my entire life, graduated in 2001. Um growing up here, I think I’ve—I've got a pretty good sense of its benefits, its weaknesses, um the positives and the negatives. And um uh one of the things that I want to—there's a lot to talk about here and I want to keep it specific to the text amendment change specifically, because I know we're going to talk about the church in the next meeting when we—after you approve the text amendment change in this meeting. Because we have been meeting since June and I think I think um I I think to me it just makes a lot of sense as a slam dunk no-brainer. A lot of the communities in the surrounding areas already allow churches in business districts. We want to comply with federal law; seems to make sense to me. We also—this building just specifically here is an example of a building that uses change; office spaces are sitting empty and this is a great opportunity to bring life to an area of town that used to have not such great light there. And that is our purpose and that is our aim. My growing up here I didn't have um—I feel like we're going to we will provide something to the community that doesn't exist today. Um we will provide a a a way to truly encounter God and to truly understand what means to have a relationship with Jesus Christ and how that can impact the community and specifically our youth in Cannon Falls. And that is our aim—to have a large facility that we can have a large youth program. Um I had some other points here—I think Eric did an excellent job discussing some of the economic benefits. I know in the past we've talked about taxes and the lost revenue if the of the—the building, the current tax—2024 tax uh property tax assessment value was 23,500 and change. We're looking at acquiring half of the building or the entire building, but uh we would be basically tax exempt on half of that. So we're really coming down to, you know, $12,000 here. And when you look at the economic impact, the the amount of commerce um and the people in the community through community service outreach, pre- and post-service events, building projects within the church and and the community, and local mission work, as well as the responsible housing growth that'll occur from natural people wanting to come to this community, I think it's—it's dwarfed. That we're going to dwarf that number. It just makes sense. It makes sense for B2, it makes sense for that area of town. Um and I just want to thank everybody that came out here to support the text amendment change for B2. Thank you. [53:40] **Chair Bruce:** Anyone else want to speak to the text Amendment for Bethel Rock? Third, last call—anybody wishing to speak to the text Amendment for Bethel Rock Church? Hearing none, hearing is closed. Committee, you want to start? Go ahead. [54:20] **Diane Johnson:** I have a few questions. Um so I understand that um you do have a facility that you're working out of here in Cannon Falls obviously, yes? **Pastor Brandon Newville:** So currently we're operating out of the the first congregation church. **Diane Johnson:** Do you hold the lease then with that? **Pastor Brandon Newville:** No, so we're we're just currently we're we're under an agreement where we share the facility with them and we pay them rent. We're not actually under an official lease, if that makes sense. **Diane Johnson:** So there's no contract? **Pastor Brandon Newville:** There is a—there's an agreement written down, yeah, but it's not an official lease. **Diane Johnson:** How how long would it take you to get out of that contract? **Pastor Brandon Newville:** Anytime. Oh, yep, okay then. **Diane Johnson:** Um, the other thing I was wondering is the facility that you're looking at, have you already made a financial commitment to that facility? **Pastor Brandon Newville:** So we're currently under a purchase agreement, and part of that purchase agreement for us to close on the facility would be the opportunity to actually be able to utilize the building. That's why we've we've signed for an extension of our purchase agreement. Uh so no, we don't have a financial commitment and we don't have to close on it unless we get an approval. **Diane Johnson:** You didn't have to put a down payment down or anything? **Pastor Brandon Newville:** No, but you had to sign a contract, that's correct, yes. **Diane Johnson:** Did you um research that location um as far as the city was concerned before you signed that contract? **Pastor Brandon Newville:** Did I research that it was B2 allowable? Or that it was B2... **Diane Johnson:** That it was B2. **Pastor Brandon Newville:** Uh, so so yes I I did see that it was B2. But when I initially had uh had requested a conditional use, I was looking at the uh—what was the order? **Diane Johnson:** Did you talk to the city after you signed or before? **Pastor Brandon Newville:** So I applied for a conditional use permit under the uh false understanding that it was Goodhue County and not within the city of Cannon Falls. And Zach actually replied to me and said that this is actually Cannon Falls, it's not county land. So then that's when we started and we came back in June. **Diane Johnson:** Who gave you that false information? **Pastor Brandon Newville:** It—nobody gave me the false information. That was what was what was requested, yeah. **Diane Johnson:** Okay. Did you—are you advised by a lawyer at this point? **Pastor Brandon Newville:** No. No, I have never—I have not. **Diane Johnson:** Okay. Okay, so so you've got a contract, so you're renting and you've got a contract... **Pastor Brandon Newville:** Mm-hmm. **Diane Johnson:** ...for purchasing... **Pastor Brandon Newville:** Mm-hmm. **Diane Johnson:** ...and you have not spoken to a lawyer about this? **Pastor Brandon Newville:** No. No, no. I have a realtor. **Diane Johnson:** You have a realtor? **Pastor Brandon Newville:** I do, yes. **Diane Johnson:** She a lawyer too? **Pastor Brandon Newville:** No, no, she is not. **Diane Johnson:** Well, the reason I brought that up is because in your presentation, which I you know was fine—appreciate it—um you must have a to-do list to get this done. **Pastor Brandon Newville:** Yeah, of course. **Diane Johnson:** And this facility... and if you fail to get through that to-do list, um do I understand that your final act would be then legal? **Pastor Brandon Newville:** I'm sorry, I didn't hear you. **Diane Johnson:** Would your final action then be legal? **Pastor Brandon Newville:** Yeah, once we sign the contract, of course... No, no, no, no. **Diane Johnson:** Your to-do list to get this facility, and if you fail to get this facility, or if we fail to you know—if it fails—are you ask—because it's not going to be changed, you're asking if if I would take legal action? **Pastor Brandon Newville:** Yes. **Pastor Brandon Newville:** I—I'm not here under those pretenses. But you brought it up. I mean... **Diane Johnson:** No, no, I just had shown you examples of things have happened. That's not what I'm coming here today with. **Diane Johnson:** Yeah, you showed us some examples that things are happening in different cities around the local area as well. **Pastor Brandon Newville:** So that's correct. **Diane Johnson:** I have to look at the whole picture. **Pastor Brandon Newville:** I can—I can tell you with with the utmost honesty: I have not spoken to a lawyer about this at all. This is just due to research myself. **Diane Johnson:** Okay, but you bring up legal action so that gets my attention. **Pastor Brandon Newville:** I'm—I'm not bringing up legal action against the city at all, and that's not what—that's not what we're here talking about. **Diane Johnson:** Oh, we're not? If you don't get what you want from the city? **Pastor Brandon Newville:** That's not—that's not my intention whatsoever. Just—I'm just showing you all of the—all of the things that I've gotten when it comes to my research when it comes to allowing for a religious institution to operate or not. **Diane Johnson:** Your research? **Pastor Brandon Newville:** Yeah, yep, that's it. I promise that all the everything I've shown is just things that I have found. **Diane Johnson:** But our—let's let's talk about the city itself. We've got you know all our zoning is put together legally. **Pastor Brandon Newville:** That's correct, yes. **Diane Johnson:** So that's... am I off base here? I don't think I am, either way. **Pastor Brandon Newville:** Well, I'm—I'm not... I I'm just saying that we want to know... **Diane Johnson:** Yep, what your plan of action will be in the long... **Pastor Brandon Newville:** My only—my only plan today was to come to request a text amendment in hopes that it would be approved. **Diane Johnson:** Okay. **Pastor Brandon Newville:** This is my third time back. I'm just trying to work with the city the best that I can. Um, we... **Diane Johnson:** I appreciate what you're doing, and you know certainly um we want as many good viable religious uh facilities in our church or in our city as possible. But we also have an area that raises tax—raises taxes for the community to keep all of everything that we've got going, and our zoning is designed to protect those taxes. And that's just a logical thing. **Pastor Brandon Newville:** So you're saying... **Diane Johnson:** For the city to do... fact that we don't pay for the city to provide services—that you know, good utilities, good infrastructure—we need a tax—we need taxes. We have set aside specific areas in the city that we feel raise taxes the best. Mm-hmm. You want to have us look at making an exception to those areas. **Pastor Brandon Newville:** Not necessarily making exception, but approving a text amendment that would align with federal law. **Diane Johnson:** That would what? **Pastor Brandon Newville:** Align with federal law. **Diane Johnson:** There we go again. Okay, so I hear what you're saying and I and I certainly appreciate your what you're doing. **Pastor Brandon Newville:** Thank you. **Diane Johnson:** And it's not an easy thing to do—I mean, nothing is—but the city has to protect itself as well. Yep. And it also has to provide a good protection for the society within the community. Mm-hmm. And I just um... I don't know, I just think that there's facilities that uh or locations available within the city. I mean, have you made an offer to buy a Congo? **Pastor Brandon Newville:** No. No, we haven't. **Diane Johnson:** Why not? **Pastor Brandon Newville:** Because they're still operating there. We're going to kick another church out? No! **Diane Johnson:** Are they operating? **Pastor Brandon Newville:** Yes, they're still operating. I wasn't totally aware of that. **Pastor Brandon Newville:** Yep, they're still operating. Um so purchasing their facility would then cause another church not allowed to be in this... we've got a couple of facilities that you know—I'm just wondering about, and maybe I'm not right on that, but... **Pastor Brandon Newville:** Yeah, and I promise you that I've done my due diligence and looking into every facility. **Diane Johnson:** So I think that um what I'm saying is I—it feels like you put the cart before the horse. That's what it just feels... back in June and not considering the legal aspects of—of—of this city. And yet you bring up legal... **Pastor Brandon Newville:** Well, I'm just saying that I I was just giving you examples of other cities that have done the same thing. **Diane Johnson:** Well, thanks for answering my questions and listen, I appreciate that. **Pastor Brandon Newville:** Yeah, absolutely, thank you. [1:02:06] **Jesse Hemma:** Next... and I I appreciate your comments. However, we—irregardless of how how all of this came up—the real question before us is whether or not religious organizations can exist in a B2 zone. And you look at the communities—Red Wing, Pine Island, Northfield, Kenyon, Faribault—who allow it. Um, and I guess my question would be to all of us as a city is: yes, we—and I'm the one that brought up the property tax base, you did, yes—um but at the same time, I'm really... as long as we understand that um I really don't feel that there's a reason not to allow religious organizations in B2 zoning. (Applause). Yeah, I mean obviously the same conditional use things that we have for churches in residential areas would apply, and maybe there have to be a few others, I don't know. But um... and now, if all these other communities didn't allow it, then I would have to think twice. But um, we lose a little bit of of property tax money, we lose that in residential area I you know in all of our uh things, and so I'm just not sure... Like I said, I would speak in favor of allowing this in and B2. [1:03:40] **Fox:** Uh have a question then. These cities that have been noted that allow it—can't hear you, speak up a little bit—sure, thank you, thank you. The cities that have been noted that allow it, do they actually have churches within those B2 areas? I mean, the fact that they allow it doesn't mean that it's actually happened. **Jesse Hemma:** That's the conditional use permit. **Fox:** Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Have have those cities that have been noted—again, it—it—it's not a question of how many churches they have in a B2 zone or religious organizations. **Jesse Hemma:** So if they have none, it's okay too, right? **Fox:** The question for us is: do we allow religious organizations in the B2 zone? It has nothing to do with the complicated process that’s taken to get here. **Jesse Hemma:** And at this point, our code doesn't. No. And and the amendment—text amendment—would allow it. **Fox:** So we can be on different sides. **Jesse Hemma:** Sure, that's fine. **Fox:** Yeah, we I'm fine, no problem there. Not going to hurt my ego, that's for sure. Me okay, thanks. **Chris Nobach:** I would say I agree with everything Diane said. I mean, if other communities are doing this, I don't see why we can't. Thank you for your persistence. I think I think this is the best option that was on the table of the last two times you came here. This is the third time. I agree, I agree. Um I don't see the downside. I mean yes, we're losing a little bit of tax base, but if you're bringing people to Cannon Falls and there's an empty building there—yes, I understand Grand O2 is there—but it's creating business, it's—people are there, it's good for the town in my opinion. So thank you. [1:06:02] **Jesse Hemma:** I have a question for the attorney. Um you brought up that the statement earlier about um making a a a text change, and for the—for that to it includes um the the stuff that they are required to do in the original would be residential area? Is that—did I understand that correctly? **Scott Lansman (City Attorney’s Office):** Uh again, remember there's two parts to this: is one, are you allow it or not allow it? Right? Looking at uh you know consistency and compatibility in the zoning district. And then once you've made that decision of um that it would be allowed, then it's a matter of—there's general conditions that that apply to all conditional use permits, which are found in the code and or in your packet. And then it's whether or not you're going to have specific conditions. And so so those specific conditions, as there's an example in the R—in the R, I think the R2 Zone—those specific conditions would be... But this way, it would be—you would be—you'd have the B2 Zone text amendment. It would say conditional uses, it would say uh probably say "churches" or "religious religious institutions," and then under it, it would list those specific conditions. So when you read—so basically when you when you when it comes back before you, you um and there's a consideration of whether or not to you know on the application for that conditional use permit for the specific project, you would look both at those general conditions and those specific conditions, and those would be added to the conditional use permit. Um I don't have those in front of me right now, but... [1:08:20] **Jesse Hemma:** So let's say, for example, let's say that this this passes and we we approve this uh text change. Uh you're saying um when we do the second part with a conditional use permit, then we that's when we'll address whether or not the the requirements get met as far as the religious organization in a in a B2? I mean, are we pulling stuff from our what what what you need to do... **Scott Lansman (City Attorney’s Office):** Right. What the job is right now is to either allow or not allow. Yeah. If you allow—if you say you're going to allow it, make that zoning text amendment, then determine what those specific conditions will be. Oh, okay. That's all you need to do right now. Okay. Then when the application does come—when an applic—assuming an application comes before you for conditional use of a religious institution in that zone, the first part is to make sure whether or not it's allowed or not allowed. Because they have to meet—under the under the conditional use permit code—there are certain items they have to meet, which includes adequate infrastructure, you know um and it's—it's in there. And then once those are in there, then you look at the conditions that are going to be placed on the approval. So but again, that comes later. Right now, your job is to say yes or no and then det—make a determination what those specific conditions would be, and that would be the zoning text amendment. [1:09:06] **Jesse Hemma:** So the way I understood this was that this may be in our—in our codes it's not consistent or compa—is it might not be consistent with what with what we do in a B2 right now, is that correct, the way it's written? **Scott Lansman (City Attorney’s Office):** Well, the the idea is whether or not it's consistent in the comprehensive plan. And so and I—and it's not consistent in our comprehensive plan at this point that we can that we could see? **Scott Lansman (City Attorney’s Office):** Well, that that's a—that's a determination for the commission. **Jesse Hemma:** That's what we have to figure out. And and then we have to figure out if it's compatible with that location. **Scott Lansman (City Attorney’s Office):** I believe you brought both of those subjects up to start with here, correct? But I I do want to note that um with regard to uh zoning, the city has complete control over the zoning of of the property. And um although you're going to be looking at consistent consisten—consistency and compatibility, um it's really a decision for the city to make. **Chair Bruce:** And I think it's important that we know that our job—job here is to just advise the council, correct? And not... we don't... **Scott Lansman (City Attorney’s Office):** That's what we do, correct. **Chair Bruce:** Any motion today would be a recommendation to the city council. **Scott Lansman (City Attorney’s Office):** Yeah, and that's what our job really is. We don't affect—we don't do the final votes, we just advise what the way we think it might go or the way you think or I think, whatever. But but um I'm still always looking out for the city um despite what other cities do. That's just what I do here. That's that's all I had. [1:11:25] **Chair Bruce:** Okay, so um my question is... yes sir, Brandon... is uh—I'm going to be the the stick in the mud here. Sounds great. Um my question is um you know if we allow a text amendment to allow religious organizations, what happens if Joe Blow with the 50 head of steers comes in and says uh, "I consider this my religion and want to start..." No, I'm just—I know I'm I'm way out—out of line. But what—what constitutes a religious organization? **Pastor Brandon Newville:** That would be next. That would come in next. Because we allow a text amendment, I would say that number one the the conditional use permit, whatever conditions you would put on it, they would have to come and prove that to you. Where I could—I could present you with today that we're general counsel affiliated as a religious organization. **Chair Bruce:** What if United States—what if they did all their homework and came in? **Pastor Brandon Newville:** Then you deal with that then. Why are we talking about—how how would we not allow that though, once once we once we do a text amendment? **Chair Bruce:** Because I'd rather have the cow business and in the residential... I'm—I'm just saying we got to look out to what's next. You guys got what what you thought was necessary, what's next? You know, we're still looking out for the future of of the whole city. **Pastor Brandon Newville:** I believe in general a religious institution would have to prove that they're a religious institution. You can't just state—for instance, in in the in the military, in order to—in order to get uh a religious exception for uh to grow let's say a beard, which it's my under—my understanding that Bruce, that you have served and possibly still do... That in order to have a beard, you have to have a religious uh exemption in order to do that. So that—that is—that is brought—it has to be an actual religion, it can't just be, "Well, you know, I believe that uh in in fairies, and with fairies I can have long hair, and so I identify as a fairy and and you so I should be able to have long hair." No, you still have to get the approval and you would have to prove that it's an actual religion, not—not just... and I mean that's a—that's the DOD. So uh I mean I would imagine that there would be easy ways to combat if somebody comes in and says, "I believe that cows are the next whatever," for you to say, "Well, can you prove to us this is an official uh documented religion, or are you just starting this today?" I think there's—there would be ways to determine and change and go against that. **Chair Bruce:** I used that for an example, but yeah, I get it. You know. [1:13:42] **Jesse Hemma:** I have a lawyer question, I think. Not if we were to recommend to the council to approve this text amendment, um looking at the um conditional use limitations for residential, most of them don't seem to be pertinent to a B2 zone. Um and I don't think we have time tonight—unless everybody wants to tar and feather us—uh to go through and figure out what the conditional uses should be. Is there uh some other guide we could use? **Scott Lansman (City Attorney’s Office):** I'm sorry, I what was that—what was the question you had at the end? I just missed the last... **Jesse Hemma:** Conditional use permit um stipulations. Yeah, we you said those should be approved with the text amendment, correct? But we don't have any of those before us that—I mean, the ones for residential don't seem pertinent in some ways. **Scott Lansman (City Attorney’s Office):** No, I didn't see any examples of proposed conditions that were in there from from staff. The only thing I saw in the packet was um existing uh conditions as an example. Um the zoning text amendment will need to have those condition—specific conditions in there um so that they can attach to whatever application comes in. **Jesse Hemma:** How will we get those? **Scott Lansman (City Attorney’s Office):** Um yeah, I mean if you—if you don't—if you don't have those at this point and you need more similar—if you need more information to make a decision, um you can always table an item um to bring back with um conditions you know to propose conditions. **Jesse Hemma:** So the conditions aren't when they apply for the CUP? **Scott Lansman (City Attorney’s Office):** You got to have conditions—you approve this—yeah, because you're look—you're looking to do a zoning text amendment that's going to say, "We approve X in this—we approve religious um institutions in this zone." And if you don't have those conditions in there when they make their application, they the conditions aren't going to apply. You have this—you have general conditions. **Jesse Hemma:** Okay. **Scott Lansman (City Attorney’s Office):** Those general specific conditions that are—that are already under under the conditional use permit um area in the code. But I would suggest that if you're looking to have specific—if there are—if there's any conditions that you're looking to have beyond just the general conditions, that they would attach as part of the the entire approval. That way, when application is made for a conditional use permit for a religious institution in that zone, the applicant knows what is required. For example, under R1 you have, in order for religious institutions such churches, chapels, temples, synagogues, provided that... What he's stating and what he's saying when you look under your city code, the first one is: side yards shall be double that required for the district, but no greater than 30 feet; adequate screening for abundant residential uses in landscaping is provided that it's compliance with; and then city codes—adequate off-street parking loading accessible... And now there's—there's opportunities through all the R1s that you currently have churches that are already out and laid out currently under each one of your—I mean, whether it's RB, R1, R2, R3, it's all in there. Um but I'm not going to put in there what conditional uses you would have in there. That's why I left that blank. Um but you guys do have those conditional uses as as the the City Attorney is stating uh under all of the R1s, if you look at the city code, right? **Jesse Hemma:** Yeah. And and I'm just asking Zach to do this correctly, yeah. Um I'm assuming in B2 zone we do have a conditional use permit stipulations for some of those other uses that were like the theater, whatever? **Zach (City Planner):** That's correct. Those are permitted uses. The theater would be a permitted use. **Jesse Hemma:** Right. But things that are listed as conditional use there are conditions accompanying... would any of those be able to be just carried over to this or added to it, or are they not? I mean, I'm sure you could you could take some that kind of fit with the the B2 as well as a church that kind of set—satisfies. **Jesse Hemma:** But does anything from the Recovery Center play a part here? Did we offer a conditional use permit for them and have it here? What did we put in that? Because that was an existing building where someone came in, they changed the business model completely. Recovery Center you know... **Zach (City Planner):** I think that was before my time here, so I don't know if I can... **Pastor Brandon Newville:** So I do have the minutes from that if you want. **Scott Lansman (City Attorney’s Office):** Mr. Chair, if if I may... one of the things that the commission could do is to make a recommendation um for if they're looking for approval to you know to approve the text amendment and to include those conditions that are in the other zones. Um and in the meantime, I will say that in the meantime between now and the council meeting, um Zach can do some research and put put together some recommendations if there's going to be changes for—for the council. Um or if they—if it is adopted with those conditions, it can always come back at a later date to be refined if the council is looking forward to—if the commission is looking to move forward on this. [1:19:43] **Chair Bruce:** Are we ready for a motion or we going to keep talking? **Pastor Brandon Newville:** If if you do need to see, I do have from that rehab center so you can see what conditional uses they put on that case you want to see that. **Jesse Hemma:** I want to do what he said. Yeah, so so I—Mr. Chair, I'll just—it would be if if the motion is made for approval, it would be motion to approve the zoning text amendment to allow a conditional use in the B2 Zone with the with conditions that are similar or the or similar conditions as in the uh which zone? **Scott Lansman (City Attorney’s Office):** R2. **Chair Bruce:** Yeah, I will make that motion. **Chris Nobach:** Second. **Chair Bruce:** Yeah, who was that? Motion by Johnson, second by uh Fox to approve the text amendment subject to the R2 conditions. Does that sound right? Correct. And any additional ones from the B2 condition, yeah. Yeah, and and I would say I I think... but Zach will refine it when he comes back to the council. Um any further discussion? All in favor? (I, I). Opposed? Carries. Thank you. On to the next step. (Applause). [1:22:08] **Chair Bruce:** Uh Bethel Rock Church, are are you guys staying for the remainder of the meeting? If you're not, I just assume you leave now to so you don't disrupt the next part. You're welcome—you're welcome to stay. Support—support us. Uh the next item is a public hearing on the text amendment to allow—okay, let me get it right—motorized cart racing at the Cannon Valley Fair. Zach? [1:23:01] **Zach (City Planner):** Yeah, thank you. So the Cannon Valley Fair has applied for an ordinance text amendment to amend the code in the UR—Urban Reserve um Zone in our city to allow cart racing via a conditional use permit. Um I will direct Planning Commission to look at Exhibit 3 which shows Cannon Falls official zoning map. Um your decision tonight will affect all the green UR areas. Um if approved, it would—the Cannon Valley Fair would still need to apply and get approval for a conditional use permit. Um this permit would allow Planning Commission and Council to put conditions on the use, um some of which could address things such as noise, hours of operation, traffic, etc. Um but what is being addressed tonight is the amendment and how that will affect the current and future land use in the Urban Reserve. [1:24:15] **Chair Bruce:** Okay, with that I'm going to open up the public hearing. Anybody wishing to speak to it, please step forward, and name and address please. Please try to limit to three minutes all. **Furland Miller:** Okay, that's hard to do, I know I speak slow. Um, I'm Furland Miller. I live at 106 Minnesota Street West, but I'm here to represent the Cannon Valley Fair. Um, before you start timing me, uh I—I want to thank everybody, even the opposition that's here, because I know there's a lot of opposition. Um, I would ask that those that are in favor of this please refrain from saying anything or to the opposition; let them speak, they have a right. So to start with, what we need is the conditional use. What we didn't know is there was a little chunk of land that was the Urban Reserve area in the fairground. Not really sure how, when, or why it got put there. According to the Urban Reserve, it has to be 10 acres or more, and that's only an 8.9 acre piece, so I'm not sure when it came into play. So with that, how this racetrack came about was Jeff ran a track back in Wisconsin—it's about 2 hours away. Jeff is from the Welch area. He approached fair about doing a go-kart track there, and we listened to him and after he left we had discussions on it. I went down to the cart track where he was currently had a racetrack and brought two other people with me. We were down there, had a good time, a lot of kids, a lot of families. Uh when he had the—the same style carts racing on it, we were within 150 feet of the track and we could carry conversation. I don't know if it has to do with location or what is going on, why there seems to be a real noise problem. So after all the stuff that has taken place, we as a fair and Jeff with the track have made some changes to—to help out. Number one: being done by 10:00. Number two: we made the—the loudest carts—the—the Micro Sprints—to put down pipes and mufflers on. That's a almost a $200 expense for each of the people, but they were all willing to do it. I think this is only the second track that is uh enforcing something like that—most tracks run without it. Now, there's other tracks that race within city limits all over the place from full-size cars to cart tracks everywhere. Um so... And then we get into some facts of the—of the cart racing here. The 125/250 class has one heat race and that's all it's ever really raced with it. The heat race lasted about 2 minutes and 36 seconds over the whole night. Now we're talking about a 4-hour period. This is—and this is average. The feature for them was about 2 minutes and 39 seconds. The Micro Sprints would run anywhere from two to three heats, but generally it's a two-heat. Them heats would run about 2 minutes and 53 seconds a piece on average. The features would run on average about 15 minutes and 8 seconds. Slingshots: one heat race, 2 minutes and 45 seconds; feature about 4 minutes and 21 seconds. This—these three classes are the only classes that would create any noise that would—anybody should—if they can hear it, is what they're hearing. Now, I feel like you got the—the situation where if you're against it you hate it, the noise is really irritating. Then you got the other side that if you're for it, the noise doesn't bother you. What is the facts? What's the in-between? Because we're all going to lean one way or another. We got a decibel meter reading. I sat on the hill on the fairgrounds; the loudest we got was an 89. Now, we're on the fairgrounds, not to the property line, up on the hill. Um the closest house is right around 700 feet from the track. Uh most places that do have a noise ordinance—and if you get reading into noise ordinances, it—it really breaks down to a period of time, a percentage of what you're allowed. Very expensive. I don't know who can sit here with the equipment, because they say there's also a lot of stuff that comes into play with that. You got a highway that interferes. If the wind's blowing, that interferes with monitoring... can be done, I don't know who does it, but I talked to people at the county, someone that deals with this, and they said they got to go out and monitor. But the—the way the law is, it's really a tough tough deal to monitor for to get true readings of what you need, especially in an outdoor venue. So I mean, this does have—and it's kid-friendly. I mean, this is mostly kids. Yes, there's adults that race the bigger carts, but there's kids that race them too. The—the impact to this community is huge. Jeff had a 3-day event down there. We know for a fact from reaching out to businesses that people were here eating at the restaurants, they were golfing, they used the Cannon pool, they went golfing... I mean, it's everywhere what they used in this town. Gas stations... every time they come to town to race, they're stopping at gas stations—whether it's to fuel their vehicles to uh get snacks or whatever. The event itself, very cheap. You want to go there and watch an event... how many events around can you go to that you only pay five bucks a person? 30 bucks you can take a family of four and eat and have some pop and enjoy some racing. These kids are passionate about what they do down there. Jeff is willing to work with anybody that wants to have their kid out there racing—find them a cart, help them, teach them. And for us to survive as a fair, I don't know how many more businesses around can be open 4 days a year and survive in today's world. It's very expensive, things have changed. Uh I don't know where things have changed, but we now pay way more than we ever used to for utilities and stuff, which is fine—we—we should pay our fair share. Need to do stuff to bring money into that fair like every other fairgrounds do—does. We've been around for 109 years, it's run by volunteers. These volunteers bust their butt prior to us and they'll be volunteers after us to keep this fair open another 109 years. It's the biggest community event we have in town and this track will help a lot. Buildings are old, they need to be fixed. We can't just let them fall down and we can't ask every business in town to always hand us money. These businesses don't have the money. Bringing new money to town, money—new money spent in town, that helps your town. Old money doesn't grow towns—that's a fact. These guys are spending money in this town. I would say obviously there's going to be people from out of town that are here right now. There's a lot of people from town—I don't know how many want to speak—but I want a show of hands right now: who's here to support this thing? And this helps with showing you who's all here to support this. This is not just a small group of people. I get the opposition; we're trying to make concessions, we're trying to change things to make it better and we have—we change things. So here to answer questions on that, or I can step aside, let uh other people speak if you guys got any questions. [1:32:53] **Chair Bruce:** Well, uh—we'll address that after—after people. **Furland Miller:** Okay, all right. Thank you. **Julie Anderson:** I just want to say thanks to Furland for um—get your name—yes, Julie Anderson, 303 Sixth Street, Cannon Falls. I'd like to thank—go back to thanking Furland for acknowledging there's opposition and there's people for it and to um not heckle one side or the other. But I'd also like to see a show of hands the people that are for the track that live within the city limits of Cannon Falls. Within the city limits of Cannon Falls? Yep. Okay. So, I live about a half mile from the racetrack, my husband and I, and our biggest concern is not the fact that on a Saturday evening we have to go inside our house, close our windows, and with the air conditioning running and watching a movie we can still hear the track—the carts—over all of that. It's not about right now; it's about the long-term planning of what our city will look like in 10 years, 20 years, 30 years. I think as the lawyer said, you have to think about um—what was the exact wording? The "compatible" and the "consistent." And going back to the long-term planning of the city on the west side of Cannon Falls where we live by the fairgrounds. I know that there was an abundance of calls to the police department about the noise issue. It could be heard all over town um not just within close proximity. And in regards to the long-term issue we have with the racetrack regarding the noise is that it will reduce—it will lower the property values on the west side of town, which will lower the property tax base on that side of town, which will have a negative impact on Cannon Falls. Um, when Furland started talking, he acknowledged the noise issue—it is something that's real. Um when we spoke to the police, they said they again had an abundance of ca—of people calling as far out uh towards the sanatorium up in Cedar Hills, all throughout town, not just on the west side. Uh Furland expressed that the fair struggles um to exist because of only having four days. I would suggest: has there um been any uh active pursuing other options such as more horse racing, flea markets, etc., that would not have a noise issue? Um that's—I would just ask that you not uh approve a text amendment. I think it has to do with thinking about if this racetrack goes forward, what else will come into town? And um I also want to speak to the point that it's a business that's running without, as far as I know, any permits. They've gone ahead and done quite a bit of things that no other business or person in Cannon Falls would be allowed to do. Look at how much conversation we had over a driveway you know. So please take that into consideration. I feel like if you give give this an inch, it will go a mile. It also Furland also talked about it being cart races. I know in the middle of summer there was something on the site about motorcycles and then it was quickly shut down. But I think it's carts now—what will it be next summer, two summers from now, three summers from now? You're going to be seeing a lot more requests for uh expanding the conditional use permit. Thank you. [1:37:12] **Jan Fener:** Thank you. Hi, my name is Jan Fener and I live at 1128 West Minnesota Street. My property does adjoin the fairgrounds. Um I'm going to read a letter from Kurt Bisil, also a westside resident who's unable to be here tonight, and ask that this letter be submitted. Kurt says: "Um in May 2023, concerns regarding noise, environmental, and other issues resulting from the track's construction and operation were raised during an open meeting um during an open forum in the regular city council meeting. In advance of the meeting, a petition was circulated to affected neighbors. Neighbors on the west side, over 100 people who had a chance, signed it. During the meeting, all assurances were given by the fairboard and the racetrack developer to the council, to the citizens attendance, and to subsequent local newspapers that noise from go-karts would be minimal. We were misled by the fairboard and the Cannon River Raceway. The amendment should not be approved. Consider the following: 1. In addition to kid karts, many heats from Sprint carts with 600cc, 140 horsepower engines are allowed to race. 2. The Cannon Valley Fair is not a county fair and is subject to the zoning regulations of the city of Cannon Falls, Goodhue County. Minnesota statutes 116.07 1.4 states local governing agencies are relied upon to enforce noise standards related to local land use. 3. Cannon River Raceway LLC, Minnesota registration 142716410024, is a separate entity from the fair and should be subject to all state, county, and city ordinance and regulations. 4. Additional statute 116.0 states that the tracks built after 1996 must comply with state ordinance noises. The statute has ensured that no track since 1996 has received permission to build in or near a community of citizens. 5. Further, a discretionary environmental review should have been undertaken before any grounds were broken for a track for a track to determine the adverse environmental impacts. Considering the above information, the track owner should never have broken ground. Cannon River Raceway should no longer be allowed to operate its—in its current location. As residents, we have rights to enjoy our property. We have the right to sit back in our backyards and enjoy our evenings. We have responsibly paid our taxes with the expectation that the city does what is in the best interest of the community. Respectfully submitted, Kurt Bisil, 1231 Minnesota Street West, Cannon Falls." I would just add um I I'm not sure the hoops that this Raceway went through to get here. Um I—I'm looking at a church that has has been here numerous times. This racetrack—we didn't know anything about. My property adjoins. I learned about it from someone outside of the city. So first of all, that is disappointing. Second of all, um I just want to mention that I have a business in my home—I am a child care provider and I have a preschool in my home. I care for children typically Monday through Thursday, but I do after-um hours and weekend care. I've done it numerous times um on weekends and I have done it while this fair was racing and I had to leave my home with my children. It was just too loud for them. Um and so I would ask that you not approve this text amendment. Thank you. [1:40:51] **Jackie B:** Thank you. Hi, my name is Jackie B and I live at 105 Haven Heights Court. I am also right above the fairgrounds. Um I'd like to ask everyone here: how many of you know what tinnitus is? Tinnitus? Tinnitus? You mean—is pronounced either way. The correct way is tinnitus. How many of you know tinnitus is a constant? Tinnitus is a constant ringing in your ear; it's a disabling condition, especially noted by veterans. The individuals who live above the fairgrounds are living with tinnitus, or for those of you that want to call it tinnitus—tinnitus. Um having worked with the disabled for 35 years, I saw a lot of individuals who had to deal with this condition. It is a disabling condition for a number of people. When we sit out in our lawns on the weekends, we have to listen to this. My husband is a veteran and he compares it to tinnitus. One of the things that I think that we need to consider about this isn't just the noise. The road down by the fairgrounds is not designed for the amount of traffic that is going through right now. It is a narrow road, there are no sidewalks, there's little room for walking, and that area is used by a number of residents for walking and for biking. We also have a park down there and a swimming pool, so this means we have children that are out and about in this area. I've watched so many times with people speeding through that area that is marked for 30 miles an hour, and they're not 30. I can start by taking the turn by the feed store and by the time I'm past the swimming pool going 30 miles an hour, I've gone from no one near me to someone tailgating. So we're not even seeing that the individuals that are using that road are sticking within the law. So then you throw on to that a number of individuals who are walking, or there are children that maybe escape mom or dad when they're down by the pool... we have a high-risk situation. The other thing that needs to be brought up is with the amount of traffic that we're seeing, we could also have additional costs for police to keep that area under control. And the roads are not designed for the amount of traffic that they're going to be seeing. So this is going to be a cost to the Cannon Falls taxpayer. We already have a very high tax base, and now we're going to be supporting an outside business that for those of us that live in the area is very unpopular. And Furland is my next-door neighbor, so I know he understands um but it's very hard to justify that we're going to have to support an outside business for something that we're not comfortable having in our backyard. So I would like the—I would recommend that uh this go no further than it is. We don't know what's going to happen long-term, and it is the responsibility of the council and this committee to take care of the members of the city of Cannon Falls, not outside interests. Thank you. [1:44:50] **Gerald Shanik:** Well, my—my name is Gerald Shanik and and my address is 101 Tamara Lane. So I'm adjacent to the fairgrounds. But uh I hear Furland telling us that this race lasts 2 minutes and this race lasts 15 minutes, and the next thing I hear is they have a 3-day event. So you want me to sit inside my house for three days with the windows shut and can't go outside for all the noise? So you—you—you have to take that into consideration. And uh I counted all the houses that are adjacent to the—they would be um Minnesota Street is the first through street south of the fairgrounds, and there's a total of 84 homes if you consider the duplexes to the west and everything on north and south of Minnesota Street. So you got 84 homes there. Can't do a thing when the racetrack is going because you can't hear a thing, whether you're outside. Then you have to go inside and you can't open the windows because it's still too noisy. So I hope this Council takes this into consideration, that we pay taxes up there and I don't know where all these gokarts are coming from. And I know there's a lot from town, but consider our situation also. [1:46:25] **Gerald Shanik:** Thank you. Thanks, J. The other thing I would mention is I called up the county to see if they issued any permits, and they—and they haven't got back to me on this yet. But I was in the building trade all my life, and I get shut down if I don't get a permit; they shut me down right away. And they built an expensive track down there with—just put it up. And it—and it's like, how come they're not shut down yet? So I would strongly suggest that everything gets shut down until we figure this out. It's not doing anything for my uh taxes either, and I'd like to let them know what's going to happen because I'll sell my house—if I—give me a chance to sell my house if I—if I got to put up with that noise. Thanks, J. [1:47:38] **Chair Bruce:** Thank you. The kids go next. **Unidentified Youth:** On? Okay. Um so we're race car drivers from Cannon... um so we're race car drivers um from... our home track is Cannon River. Um um I mean, it's a family sport. We're bringing grandparents um parents um having fun um and then um I mean, it's fun to be there um but it's a family sport. I mean, if you take it away from me, you're taking it away from all of these guys and all of my family. But yeah, please. [1:48:24] **Jacob Demo:** Good evening Cannon Falls Community. My name is Jacob Demo and I am 18 years old and will be going—8—8 years old and will be going into third grade. I am here tonight on behalf—where are you from? Owatonna, Minnesota. Uh of behalf of myself and my racing family to help support Cannon River Raceway. On a typical night, 60 to 70 drivers made up of mostly kids and teenagers along with their parents and families come to Cannon River Cannon Falls, MN to race their gokart, slingshot, and Micro Sprints. Walking through the pits you will find strollers with young siblings, parents, and grandparents wishing their kids good luck, and the famous fist bump from friends and fellow competitors meaning good luck. Cannon River Raceway has given us a safe and friendly atmosphere to compete in, showcase our talent in. Racetrack has allowed us to meet so many people outside of our school and local lives and enabled us build lifelong friendships. On behalf to Jeff and Jennifer Schubert, Cannon River Raceway, and our our racing family, we ask for your long-term support and com—commitment in your community. Sincerely, Jacob Demo and my racing family. (Applause). [1:50:10] **Gary Johnson:** Hi, my name is Gary Johnson, 909 Park Street West. Um I'm not going to talk too much because I kind of swear too much, but I want to show you a video if I can find it quick. That's one—that's the kids, not modified. There's modifies... that's what we hear up there. (Applause) (Music). And this is off the computer on my phone, so the sound isn't as bad on here, but it's all I got to say. So thank you. **Chair Bruce:** Thanks, G. [1:51:09] **Jody Montgomery:** Hi, I'm Jody Montgomery and I live at 109 Haven Heights Court, right above the fairgrounds. My backyard butts right down to the fairgrounds. Um first of all, what he says doesn't even do justice for what the noise actually sounds like. Last weekend, or the weekend—the last time they ran it, I had my grandson staying with us and put him to bed, and he comes downstairs and goes, "Grandma, I can't sleep because it's so loud." And that's with windows shut and everything. The other thing I have a question is: right now you're getting complaints from people of Cannon Falls for the noise, and it's only happened a couple weekends for the—so far this year. I would like to know what the goal is of how many weekends they're planning on running it and how frequently. Because I looked up his other racetrack and it covered a period from April to octob—one race in October—and it covered like 12 to 15 weekends. And if that's what our summers are going to be like, I think that's something you really need to take into account is for us to have to live with that noise that long. And that's all I got to say. [1:52:33] **Kevin Cman:** Thank you. Hi, my name is Kevin Cman. I live at 1200 West Minnesota Street. Uh I live right directly above the fairgrounds. Um years ago, there used to be a grove of trees here that used to buffer a lot of the noise. Well, they took that out to put that retaining pond in on to the whole west side. So now—it used to be not so bad, but you know... and we—I've lived there for 40 years. We knew the fair was there, we had no problem. We thought four days is all we had to put up with. And Steve, come on, have a beer with me sometime when they're running this son of a—please do, because I'd love to have you hear it. I'd like to have the PCA up there when they start up those uh tractor pull engines. My wife has plates on the wall, well we go take them down when the fair comes because they are just rattling. And I've seen the police up there registering with decibel meters the volume of noise, and they've been doing it. But what I'd like to say is you know, you allow this to happen... how many more events are there going to be? What other the other events... now, I got a lot of great ideas if you people want them. When the winter comes and they pile that snow and they put in the the swimming pool parking lot, hell let's put that out on the fairgrounds and put moguls out there and you go and run goddamn snowmobiles out there! Okay? Now, in the springtime we put mud dirt in there and mud, so we make it muddy. Now we get the ATVs in there. You know, how many weekends do we got to put up with this? You know, we were fine with the fair. Now we get this in. How many weeks is it going to run? This has kind of been slipped in under the carpet; nobody knew about it. You're the city council, stand up and do your job, boys, because you aren't. Okay? Listen to the people clapping, listen to us. [1:54:33] **Chair Bruce:** One question: what kind of beer? **Kevin Cman:** What do you want? I got one that'll knock your ass—you right on your ass. It's a homebrew we have. Yeah, and we have kids here; we don't need him from Owatonna telling us what goes on and Cannon Falls. [1:54:50] **Shad Singleton:** Sounds like he might have had a beer already. Um my name's Shad Singleton. Um I traveled from two hours away; I'm from Mora, Minnesota. Um been in—been involved with the Schubert family for—for as many years as my daughter's been racing. Um I just have a few—a few small facts here. On July 27th, um we had a—we had a... there was this three-day show everybody talked about. Two days of it was—was the days that we would have had the louder cars there. Um I personally had 30 to 35 people that traveled in from Minnesota, Texas, Iowa, Wisconsin, Illinois, Nebraska; all of them stayed at the GrandStay for a total of 11 rooms. We all went to Brewsters for lunch on that Saturday. Uh I don't think they were disappointed to see us come in for lunch. I don't know what that econ—I don't know what that economic impact equals, but uh I heard one of the councilmen say, "You know we—we might lose some tax revenue on the church." And I appreciate you guys' passion; we're passionate about our racing. But you said, "Might lose some tax revenue, but it brings people to Cannon Falls." On August 10th, 77 cars registered. If the average car had three people that come with them—the driver being one of them, probably a parent, a you know, two parents—that's 231 people that come into Cannon Falls. That's—and that's—that's going to be a small—that's a small show. We're here for one day, but I can promise a lot of money comes to town. I personally—my mom managed a Caseys store for 35 years. Caseys is allowed to say how many employees they have based on gas sales. So the more gas sales you have, the more employees you can have to support your store. I make sure every time I go to any town to race, I support the local Caseys because I know they can have one more person there hopefully to to help get people in and out of the door. I buy all our ice, all of our water; I buy it in the towns that we race in. Um I I think people talking about this 14 weekends... I know I know we have seven points races this year; none of them are on back-to-back weekends. Um we've had some weather—we've had some weather issues. But uh I'm not going to say how many races there is, but there's probably a dozen races total. And uh I grew up in a town that had a racetrack right in the town. Um people talking about people not being able to sleep—my daughter had to wake my 2-year-old granddaughter up at the racetrack the other night to put her in a car seat to take her home. So I don't know if the noise is that bad, but uh I think what they're doing for the community is great. It's great for the youth—youth that are invol—involved in racing uh don't get involved in other things because they're too busy out in the garage helping dad. Uh there's a couple boys in here that are teenagers now, and you know the teenagers are the ones that get in trouble, and and these boys are out working on their race cars all the time. So appreciate your time. (Applause). [1:58:20] **Roger Gamson:** Thank you. My name is Roger Gamson. I live at 1300 Minnesota Street West. Which for everybody who's from out of town, I'm damn well against this sucker. I can identify—I'm a Vietnam veteran, I've got the tinnitus. We live at the uh top of the hill on the west side of the fairgrounds, and not only do we have to deal with the traffic going down, but loud pickups coming up and doing their wheelies. So here we are again, a year later. We were first here to put in the gokart track. Furland said that's the only thing we're going to put in. Well, here we are again. Anybody who's from out of town and who's upset at the fairgrounds um you know they are not in compliance. Your mayor acknowledged that she read a letter from Kurt Bisel who has done his research. I suggest as a fairboard who has not done their Dil—diligence, along with the city council. Why wait until the meeting? When did this—are we rais—are we racing gokarts here or are we racing dirt bikes? There's not been any clarification. When was this proposed by the fairboard to the council? No clarification on it. We're looking at selling if we can and if we have to, because we've got to close our balcony door for the noise. There's a property right on the west end of the fairgrounds that's been for sale for 3 months—why isn't that selling? I respect the fairgrounds need some source of income, but I would suggest you look at alternatives such as selling your land to a developer who will bring in infrastructure and new taxes so we all don't have to pay for this if and when it all goes to court. And believe me, it will, because neither the city nor the fairgrounds have done their due diligence. Why didn't anybody know about this statute that passed in 1996 which precludes this fairground from doing their thing? So you all need to get down and start doing some business and in taking care of your citizens, if that's who you respect and who votes you in and and out, and get some better businesses in here. You can tell I'm just totally PE. (Applause). [2:00:39] **David Alstead:** Thank you. I'm going to make this real quick. David Alstead, 1701 Fifth Street North, Cannon Falls. Here in town, I live northeast of the track, elevated height. I can hear everything from the fairgrounds. I look forward to the 4th of July when we have fireworks because from... so therefore, I can also hear the wonderful noise from the track. Thank you. It reminds me of my childhood and I miss it. Um the—the non-supporters: do you have kids? Do you have grandkids? I mean, come on, bring into—oh I did bring it I did bring it into it. It—if my grandkids lived here in town, they would be part of it, yes. So anyways, you are the Planning Commission, you give advice to the city council—listen to the community. Is—do we want a dying community or do we want a living community? Thank you. (Applause). With that, I'm a shift worker. Typically I sleep during the races and I have no—no problem sleeping with the exception of the nights that I want to go to it. Thank you. (Applause). [2:02:11] **Brianna Andras:** Hi, my name is Brianna Andras. I hate speaking but 409th Street North here in Cannon. I have four kids: 17, 13—let me think—17, 13, 12, and 8. They hate the noise. They all play sports here in Cannon Falls; I've got I have football, I've got soccer, I've got volleyball... I do all of them. None of them interrupt everybody in town like this. It is ridiculous how loud it is. And when they say they end at 10:00... I was one of the people that called the police on in June at 10:38—I have it on video of how loud it was at my house. That's not 10:00; that's 10:38. And it didn't stop till almost 11:00. It's ridiculous. It's not fair. I want to know how long this is going to be going on, how many weekends this is going to be going on. I have nothing, and it's interrupting my life. It's not right. (Applause). [2:03:44] **Chad Johnson:** Hello, I'm Chad Johnson and I support the fair and uh the fairgrounds being used for the racetrack. 320 Larkspur Lane. I think it would bring a lot of out-of-towners to the community, such as the kids from Owatonna that come and race and hang out with their family. I'm sure for every racer that comes out, we probably have five or six people of their family that go to local towns. We've got the campgrounds in town—if we start filling those up with people coming in to visit, they come at nighttime, they enjoy the night, the next day maybe they get up, they go spend some more time in town. That's all I got to say. (Applause). [2:04:31] **Roger Gamson:** Thanks. I want to add one thing which is very relevant. Two weeks ago when you had your Saturday night event, I walked down there and there's a lot of people from Wisconsin and yeah, it brings in a lot of business, etc., etc. But my problem was the young boys that were up here—I saw two of them around eight or nine years old in their uniforms walking around with a clear plastic glass of beer. I'm not done yet. Furland, when—when we were here 2 years ago... when we were here 2 years ago, Furland said when I asked about the city and the beer license, "Oh we're not going to have any beer vending going on." Well, I asked the young boys, "Where did you get it?" and it wasn't apple juice; they showed it to me. And here's a person in a bus who's got a keg set up undercover selling beer for five bucks a glass. And I asked the boys, "Can I taste yours?" and it was the same stuff. And they went out and raced the next heat. So you can laugh at it, but what if your young boy gets killed or hurt? Point being: City, take care of it. All right, thank you. [2:05:58] **Jeff Schubert:** Jeff Schubert, 20235 Rowan Avenue, Welch, Minnesota. I uh run the track. Beer? Come on. I—just some of this is ridiculous, I'll be honest with you. We'll probably have 12 races—12 to 14 races a year. Um two of them are two-day shows—we have one in the fall, one in the middle of the summer. That's what our schedule has been since we've ever ran this. Otherwise, we are on every other week, if not less than that basis. We usually start in May and we're done the third week in September—that's our last—that's usually how we do it. Um I'm not going to say there's not noise—there is noise. But Furland—I went down... we have a race pass, you can see on there when the cars are on the track, we actually have it. It's—it's recorded there: 2 minutes and some seconds. We have 12 classes usually, 11. We have three classes that make noise. So if you divide that up and figure out how they're spread out, we run two times for the night. So you have each of those classes goes out twice. No matter what you guys say, you're not hearing this constant—it's not a constant noise. And I'm not—I'm not denying that there's a little bit of noise, but I'm also saying if you took the—the readings, that we are well underneath what is legal as far as the state of Minnesota go. Um we do bring a lot of family atmospheres. If I ever seen someone selling beer at my track, you can ask anyone at my track—they would not—not be there first of all, and they probably wouldn't like what happened to him. And not a single parent would allow that to happen at that my track. We are completely about kids and complete about fam. Um I I don't I just I can't just imagine but... I just—I just want to say first of all, we were here September or May 2nd of last year, I believe we were here, and the City Attorney said that under chapter 38—which everyone of the whom we were running under—that there was nothing legally that they could do about it. That was brought up at this council meeting before this ever became of anything. That's why nothing has been applied for; that's what was never said. We never heard back from the city council on anything. It went forward as we went forward with the track—that's what we was run under. Um Golden Spike Speedway is another fairgrounds in the city when they have their two-day shows. **Chair Bruce:** What—what city? **Jeff Schubert:** Uh, Blue Earth. Blue Earth. Um they just built their track, I believe they're like 8 years old, so that was after '96. Um their people in the community get together and they actually throw like a—they have a flyer you could go on their thing, and the community—people in the community—get together, the businesses, they have a little thing for them drivers and the families to go and they go to each business and they might get $2 off or get a treat. They throw pancake breakfast for the racers that come in because they do spend money. They are part of the community. We're not a bunch of drunks. We are family-oriented and it always has been that way. Um our goal is not to be—we're—we're here to be part of the community, we're here to be an asset, not a—not a drag on the community. The you—you know, you talk about tax revenue... well, if your small businesses stay in play because of events like this coming into your town and spend money in your town, that allows your small businesses in town to also succeed, which that's where you get your tax revenue from. And I believe as a racetrack that we do do that, and I believe that we provide a safe atmosphere for kids to come. I charge $5, five and under free. You have a family of four, two adults, one under five... you get in for $15, $20 if you all paid. Where can you go in the town of Cannon Falls for $20? If your kids don't like it or are have a bad night with them... we've had people walk out and my mom would say, "Are you leaving early?" They're like, "Yep, we had a great time, the kids are getting fussy, we're going home." For $20 they don't care—they go home, they had a good time for an hour, hour and a half, or whatever it is, and you're able to leave and not go to a movie and spend $80 and feel like you got to watch the whole thing. Um we just really I just we basically we're geared towards the families—that's really what we are. Anyone who has come has enjoyed it. I know that not everyone is into racing and I do completely understand that. I have three kids of my own. I have a special needs son. I have a son that's 20, and I have a son that's 17. Um we all work at the track. My special needs son... you want to talk about special needs? I actually have a class for special needs that we actually bring out and they run gokarts um on our track. We did it at the other one, we haven't done it yet this year—excuse me, this year—but they will be here in September to run. Um we encourage like—we encourage all aspects of life and where you're at, and we it's a great place. My son who's autistic, he thrives at the racetrack with the people around and he's—he's got a secure environment and he thrives with the community and with the racers around. Um I I just believe that our—our goal is not to have big cars, our goal is not to have anything but we—what we are running now is... brought up motorcycles? Yeah, motorcycles... um there was—there was a show proposed with the motorcycles and we shut it down. And that being said, there's a reason we shut it down—was to be fair to the community. And our—I mean, you—if you were to accept this and change the language, you would be able to put in your conditional use permit the—the permitted things. Since the the first night—I will agree, we did run late and I take full blame for that. It was our first night running; we it—things just went along a little bit slower than they normally have. Since then, we have not finished past 9:00, 10:00 at night. We move classes to move the louder classes earlier in the evening, and we're actually still kind of tweaking our schedule—we're doing that right now to take the louder ones and try to bring them a little bit earlier in the evening. Um we'll continue to do that as the show gets going. I believe we should be able to get done approximately 9:30 at night with everything. And at that point, you know, if you have three classes that make noise and the rest don't, it's kind of hard to say it ruins your whole evening when you—we have multiple times where there's not noise being run. And I and I do—I do agree that there should be some kind of a partnership here, and—and part of the partnership would be basically allowing us to um continue to operate. Obviously, we have our 10:00 curfew, which we've met every other time besides that which there's a 10:00 curfew in the school in the um uh area here. Um we do have you know since that first night we have made adjustments, we've added mufflers, we have continued to work to improve our race program. You want to hear about what the track is... I'm just trying to explain like why we're here and I'm—I'm sorry I went over my three minutes and we will continue... We are good neighbors, and I believe that for the few that don't support it, we have 84 houses up top and I think we've heard from five or six. So that's just that area; we haven't heard from anyone else and I and I think that a lot of... [2:13:46] **Unidentified Resident:** (Inaudible shouting about petition). **Jeff Schubert:** Yep, and a petition. I—I we—I I don't—I'm not—it is what it is. I'm just saying for people here tonight for the outlet, we do have people that support it also. And I'll just leave it with: we are family orientated, we do push the family thing. If you give it a shot, I think you'll like it. Um you want somewhere for your teenage kids and your young kids to go and families to go as a family? We are the place to do it. Um we'll keep it short and sweet, and I've already ran over but I appreciate it. And if we had have known that this was going to change because of your aspect of like what you thought would needed to do, this would have been addressed earlier in this process. But after our meeting last spring, I think we kind of thought this wasn't a direction that we were going. So any questions for me? Thank you. (Applause). [2:14:37] **Brian Douglas:** Thank you. Brian Douglas, 1124 Minnesota Street West, Cannon Falls. I'm just basically talking to the Planning Commission because that's what you're here for. After we heard that the racetrack was coming in, I caught a realtor and I wanted to get an idea how that would affect my property. Basically they came back to me and they have worked at the Elko racetrack—they know, they've done homes around that area. And basically they have said that: first thing she said, you have to disclose that you have a racetrack in your city limits. For every house that is in the city limits will have to disclose it if they ever want to go up for sale. Now for you—for any you want to build this new complex developments, you have all those houses that are being built... it has to be disclosed by the realtors or whoever you have trying to sell those homes that there is a racetrack in the city limits. As long as those homes are in the city limits. So you need to take that under advisement because first off what I was told is that it's a 50/50 gamble that you're going to get the money you want for your house if there's a racetrack in your city limits. Somebody might buy the house because they're a racetrack enthusiast, which is fine, but if they aren't, the person might pay them more money—might just walk away and say, "I'm not going to live with that." So that's what I want you to know is that the future is going to be dictated by this too. Thank you. [2:16:11] **Courtney Road:** Thank you. Hi, Courtney Road um 100 Tamara Lane. I wasn't planning on speaking, but um I live right by the fairgrounds and I think it's a really difficult situation. Because if you don't live there, you don't know—you don't know how loud it is. So people who are kind of pish-pishing all the noise—it legit is loud. I've had people at my patio and it only goes two minutes, but those two minutes we can't talk because we can't hear each other. So we're out there, we're talking and then we can't, and then we can start up again. But it is very loud and I—I am not against the racetrack. I think it's great, it brings a lot of stuff into the community like we all found out, but I live right there and it's terrible. And if you don't live there, you just—you cannot understand how loud it is. (Applause). [2:16:56] **Carmen Douglas:** Thanks. Carmen Douglas. I'm at 1124 Minnesota Street West in Cannon Falls. I don't think there should be a racetrack for motorized vehicles within the city limits, especially in a residential neighborhood. I know we've heard a lot—a lot of information about 2-minute races and however many race—uh minute racetracks races there are on the racetrack. The noise from this racetrack prevents us from being outside in the summer when we—we're shut in in—um in Minnesota, we're shut in the and our houses all winter, and all we want to do is be outside and enjoy our homes and our properties. Um you can be inside my house with the windows and doors closed—we're in the basement, the TV is turned up to 60—and you can still hear the racetrack. And if you don't believe me, I invite any of you—you can come to my house when they have the races going and you can hear it. So I don't know what these people—I mean, they're used to hearing loud noises, I get it, but it's—it's too loud. It's too loud for us that live with this racetrack in our backyards. I can't believe that the fairgrounds went ahead and let this thing go through be—or the city council let this go through before any permits were were given. I mean I—I don't understand why nobody has entertained any other ideas about uh about uh getting any more money for the fair. I get it that they—that they need that they want the fair to continue and I understand that; I like fairs. But everything is so expensive, maybe they're going to have to come up with some other options. But I don't think it should be at the rest of our um at our for us to have to live with this noise just so they can have their races. I think the races—they can have their races, but it needs to be without—outside the city limits. Thank you. (Applause). [2:19:16] **Kevin Cman:** I was talking with the racetrack uh gentleman; maybe between the city council, the fairgrounds, him... maybe it could put up a fence that would help buffer some of the noise. If it's split three ways, it's not going to be as expensive. But uh but like I say, the other thing too is the traffic and don't get me—I don't want to get started on it. But here's the thing you people don't realize: the traffic up there when the fair is on and what I look at is you've got two exits out of that fairgrounds, and when that 4th of July they're lighting off fair fireworks up there... what happens if one goes doesn't go off like it's supposed to and all those cars are parked on that tier there and it hits in the middle of it and all of a sudden now you got 100 cars trying to get out of there in a you know split second. **Chair Bruce:** We're kind of getting off—off the route here. **Kevin Cman:** No! This is talking about you guys. You people need to be up there, the city council, and see what goes on what we deal with. It's like I say, do your job. Be up there, come on up and see us. **Chair Bruce:** We're the Planning Commission, not city council. **Kevin Cman:** Well whatever, but like I say, like I say, maybe you can split it with the Planning Commission, the fairgrounds, and the racetrack gentleman—a fence to help buffer some of that noise. I—I like the idea of the kids having their thing, that's great. That's what kids need. But uh control the noise—that's the main issue. Control the noise. Thank you. [2:21:11] **Nate Wiberg:** Thank you. My name is Nate Wiberg, 327 Larkspur Lane. Um met Jeff about 10 years ago or so, my son used to race. We used to live over in Wisconsin and I can say it is a very family-oriented uh great great thing for kids to get into and learn a lot of things. Um I know I've heard stuff about the future plans... I think there's a lot of options, I think uh fence possibly. But there's also, as everyone knows, electric cars, there's electric dirt bikes, there's possibility in the future of electric carts. Guys can laugh all you want—there's just saying I think there's options as far as doing things about the noise and the sound. And I just think that it'd be a good good entertain everybody's ideas and thank you. [2:22:09] **Aaron McMahon:** Hi, I had a really nice conversation with Furland this weekend. My name is Aaron McMahon, 612 West Hoffman Street. And I know this is a racetrack is trying to do everything they can, and Jeff talked about community. And this—this business is really tearing this community apart. And I want to go on record as saying that as somebody who lives near the fairgrounds with children, I think I speak on behalf of all those that are opposed to it that we have nothing against children. We don't want our kids to have their faces in computers more often, and we don't think the other altern—the only other alternative besides racing are drugs or alcohol use or vandalism. It's just—it's just really tragic. I just... but I want to—what really needs to happen here is the emotion needs to come out of it and we need to get down to black and white. What are the rules? What are the laws? What are the regulations? All right, last year on May 3rd when the attorney addressed the council, she was under the misinformation that this was a county fair, and her exact words were, "There is no precedent for it." She was wrong. If I understand the City Attorney sitting here right now... I'm sorry, I'm very nervous because this is very emotional. If we change—if this text amendment goes forward, then the zoning will change for all of the Urban Reserve District, is that correct? That means if anybody wants to put in a motorized track, they could do so next to residential neighborhoods on the north side of town, on the west side of town—excuse me, on the east side of town and on the southwest side of town. Additionally, if I look at the County plat, the Urban Reserve isn't even where the racetrack is—is located. There are two plats on the County plat that are are to—I believe residential, and that's where the racetrack is. Perhaps someone could... I think that's incorrect. I have a—I have a copy of the County plat right here; someone like to see it? And again, I would like to state that everybody here is thrilled that we have a fair. Everybody here supports the fair. Everybody here supports children. These kids over here are adorable, and we would love to have them race if we didn't have to be bothered by the noise. But I will state that if you download the app, you will also discover that there is not one local child who races at the—at the events. We have someone from Randolph and there's a racer from Welch, but there are no local children. If—if you can—if you can make sure that we don't have to hear it anymore, I'll—I'll be the first one to sponsor a local kid. Finally, as the attorney also stated, the track has to—has to fit within criteria in our local zoning—zoning ordinances 152.057 A through E. And I don't believe that the track can actually—it just doesn't follow A, B, C, D, or E. Thank you. (Applause). [2:26:27] **Andrea Whiting:** Andrea Whiting, 327 Larkspur Lane. And I just want to go on record stating that I am for this. I have lived in multiple communities and been involved in multiple um various non-profits that are all for children's activities. I will also state that Cannon Falls is a community that I've paid the highest property taxes, and so I am ecstatic hearing that there's church people coming in just to build a church. What other activities do we have? Because I also came from a small town that I had to leave because there's nothing for kids to do, there's nothing for families to do to raise their children, to provide safe outlets for activities outside of sports. Not everybody's an athlete. I was an athlete; my nephews, they're Gearheads—they love motors. I would love for them to have an opportunity to have this racetrack or a dirt bike track here because that's what my property taxes pay for. (Applause). [2:27:37] **Zach (Resident):** Uh my name is Zach, I live at uh 301 Hoffman Street West. I'm for the track. Um when it comes to the housing part that people are concerned about... right now me and my wife are looking for houses; there's not many on the market. So even if you think this is going to affect the price of your house, it's not, because it's a very small market and houses are really expensive right now. Um as for going with the the fact of the kids, I would love to have it where my future kids are able to race at this track. So that's it. [2:28:32] **Barry Underdal:** Hello. Barry Underdal, 301 East Main Street. I've um been around this town for 60 years. I know motorsports been going on at that fairgrounds for longer than I've been alive. This is not just some property that they built a track on that uh that facility supported stock car racing before I was born, and they've had all kinds of different motorsport events there over the years. Um they have had snow-cross there and they—they've had mud trucks, they've had truck pulls, they've had all kinds of things. This isn't something new. They're trying to survive. I don't want to see the fairgrounds fail. I don't want to see the buildings fall apart because there's not enough money for everything, because they're—it just isn't so. So this is a good way to support the—the Cannon Valley Fair and the fairgrounds. And me being a resident my whole life, I think it's very important to maintain that facility. It's—it's not going to be much left if there are other facilities... I've been to that have racetracks that got people built around them and they got forced out more or less, they really limited what they can do there. Well, what built those facilities was racing. I know board members that told me that I've known them for years—these are people have become friends with—who said that racing built the fairgrounds. Now, I'm talking specifically Kasson. That fairgrounds, all those buildings were built by racing money. Money wouldn't have been there if they didn't have weekly racing there. And we're talking full-size cars now. I think you should figure out just how loud these carts are and follow the rules. If you—if you check with the decibel meter... because I've done it myself, I had a full-size race car on that track and I had a decibel meter myself in that neighborhood and it was nothing. The highway was louder. So I'm just want you to consider that. Figure out a way to make this go. If—if my kids were little, they'd be over there. I wish I was—I had this track when I was a little kid; I'd have been there every weekend. So just uh please consider all the facts, not just the complaints. This is a lot like an airport having houses built around it then complaining about the runways you know. So thank you. (Applause). [2:30:51] **Jody Montgomery:** Thank you. I'm Jody Montgomery. I was up here earlier. I just like to make a comment. Um first of all, from how I understood Jeff when he said it was like 12 to... that equates to three and a half months of weekends, which we already have shortened summers. Also, I have four kids and going on number 11 for grandkids. So all of my kids were extremely active and not just sports, but other things outside of that. So and unless you actually live in the neighborhood and you sit there... I mean, I'm not a paying customer going down there and I can leave after an hour because you're gone—you don't hear anymore. But when you're there for the entire event, even though you don't want to be because it's my backyard, I'm hearing it for four hours. And yes, they run two minutes at a time, but it's 4 hours worth of two minutes at a time. And you want to talk about the fairgrounds? Yes, they need to make money. But the citizens are what's important in this community, and that's what I think needs to be taken into account. Thank you. [2:32:29] **Chair Bruce:** Second call. Anyone wishing to address the... just we got a... obviously everybody's got stuff to do; we can't keep this going all night. And I—never respect you guys and and have to make this decision. It's going to be tough for everybody, and no matter how it goes, it's going to be tough and and someone's going to be offended. Facts is what we want. Don't bring stuff up—I heard about a tractor pull ripping—well, that happened during the fair, but we're supporting fair. Let's talk about facts about the gokart track. Once again, depending on who you are... I've talked to people up in that neighborhood who said, "Yeah, I can hear it, it's no different than the neighbor mowing their yard." It's 30 minutes out of 4 hours of the loud cards that broke up—that's the minutes. If you guys want to go on RacePass and pay the subscription to it, you can look at it yourself and track the three classes that are going to make noise. And that's where this comes from. This is a—a site that covers racing all over the country, so you can go on and track any track that's on it. The facts are the facts. I know it's passion; I think people are pushing stuff. We come here with facts; that's what it came here—that's what I'm giving you. And that's all we're going. As far as house costs, that don't even come into play because somebody might buy this house and somebody don't like this house. That—that has nothing to do with whether there's a track there or not. Once again, that thing has had race cars on it—full-sized cars raced there like Barry said in the 60s and 70s, so it's not a new track in a sense because there was race cars on that track and there's still motor events going on and there always has been. So just want to say let's talk about facts. Fireworks blowing up cars... I mean, where's that coming from? What's that got to do with any of this? I—I mean, I'm dumbfounded. Beer at the track... I've been there, there ain't no beer there. I mean, come on, let—let's talk facts. That's all I ask. Thanks. (Applause). [2:34:44] **Julie Anderson:** For one last time: taxpayers, people that live in the city limits of Cannon Falls. And why are there not more people here tonight who are opposing? It's because most of the people in town could not believe that this actually unfolded without being stopped, and are putting the care of their livelihood, their summers, their home, their property values in your hands and trust you will make the right decision. This should not go forward. The racetrack should not exist, and I do hope you do not amend the text. Thank you. (Applause). [2:35:32] **Jeff Schubert:** Just one more thing if I could. If I did the math correct... um if you want to know the noise, just the three classes that make noise—the rest of them, there's no way you can hear up in the houses, I'll guarantee you because I've checked. Um it's 15% of the time we running for four hours. If you do the math, 15% of the time you can hear the cars. So for 85% of our races going on for four hours, you can't hear anything running. So if you want to put in perspective, and that's cold—that's facts. Figure it out, do the math. I'm just—did the math. That's 15% of the time you can hear cars on the track out of 4 hours. So I'm just I mean I'm just I'm just want to know the facts too. And—and—and we are willing to work with the city council and come up with a plan that works for everyone. Um whether it be whatever limiting nights that we can race as far as how many a year, so we don't—we have all those in place. Our goal is not to make this a weekly race; our goal is not to make it expand into anything other than what we've done for the last year—this year—and what—what I have done for the last 5 years at the other track. Um I have no intention of doing so. And like I said, we—we're willing to work. And if you think about the time you can hear 15%... I mean, if you expand that over four hours... so just wanted you to—those are hard cold hard facts of what you can hear during the races. And I'm not saying you can't hear my PA system for them talking, but as far as the cars go... I come up here and visit friends and there's a ball game going on—you hear that for blocks away from the ballpark, all you hear is the PA going. I mean, me I'll be honest, I mean if you want to talk about that... I'm just saying 15% is a—is a number that is a legitimate number that you can hear the cars run. Um and if the wind's blowing, you're probably not even going to hear some of that. If it's blowing the other direction, you're going to hear a little bit more. I—I just once again, we are here as a—a friend of the community, someone that wants to come and help grow the community and provide a spot for families to go and uh for cheap entertainment and somewhere for people to come and hang out. That's all I got. Thank you so much. (Applause). [2:37:52] **Brianna Con:** Hi, I'm Brianna Con, 4580 Bow Trail near Strand, Minnesota. I'm a local realtor of nine years. So if anybody wants to chat afterwards, let me know; I'll be outside with cards. [2:38:13] **Jan Fener:** I'm Jan Fener, and I don't want to sell my house. I—this is where I built a house, and this is where I want to stay. To the gentleman who said that someone was at the races, they'd had enough, their kids wanted to go home and go to bed—my kids want to go to bed too. They are home, but they can hear the racetrack. They get to leave and go home; we don't. We have to stay. Thank you. [2:39:09] **Jim Hoffman:** Hi, I'll make this quick. Jim Hoffman, 917 West Park Street. Uh so many people have kind of stole my thunder, but I would like to ask a couple of questions. Um the one thing I want to know about for uh like the uh the permit and that kind of thing is: I've noticed that down there there's overnight camping as well a lot of times, and what about the hygiene for that? I have questions on who—who carries the insurance policy down there and who pays for it. Um it was a track and a design was that was that uh and the construction... was that done under the oversight of a civil engineer? What does that track look like? Um my question is: what happens if got if somebody gets severely hurt down there, or God forbid somebody gets killed, who's on the—who's on the ticket for that? Is what I'd like to know. I had a lot of other things, but so many people did a lot better job of talking about it than I did because I did have some misinformation as well. Uh one of the things I would like to say is that this public hearing was a long time in coming. There's been no public hearing up till this point. We were just told, "This is going to happen, there's nothing you can do about it," and very voyous by some of the uh board members by the way. Uh that's all I have. Thank you. (Applause). [2:40:40] **Kevin Cman:** I do have one last... excuse me, we've been talking a lot about the noise. Steve lives down near me; I live a mile away, almost eight blocks, and on August 10th I could hear that second class very clearly. Granted, it was every two minutes or whatever it was. That's a mile away—that's too far. Thank you. [2:40:58] **Shauna Chambers:** Hello, my name is Shauna Chambers and I live on the east side of town, 105 East Minnesota. My dad lives on the west side, 1221 West Minnesota. So he hears the races up there. We like the race noise. Um we don't mind it, it doesn't bother us, it doesn't keep us from sleeping up there, doesn't keep us from talking to each other, that's for sure. Um I think it's just perspective really. I think change—change is the nature of life. I think if you want to grow, change is inevitable. And this community does not have very many things for children, let alone families to do. We went down there and enjoyed the races a couple couple weeks ago and um it was awesome. I mean, I would say if you haven't actually visited the track, maybe don't knock it till you try it. I think it's amazing what these kids are doing. I think supporting children is very important. I think in our town we don't have enough things outside of sports to support children in. Um it's going to grow our community along with the church—I mean, everything you're saying yes to is growing our community, is bringing in more revenue. Um glory to God for passing that church thing though. Thank you. But the racetrack is just another is just another form of growth for our town. If people can't handle the noise... I mean, it's not every day, it's not even every weekend. There's—there's lots of things to complain about. Um I guess you're always going to find something, right? So I guess I would just say I'm for it. Um I think that it should be approved. Thank you. (Applause). [2:43:17] **Brandon Newville:** My name is Brandon Newville. I live at 2280 290th Street, Clear Lake, Wisconsin. Um I've been racing at Jeff's tracks for four or five years now. Um he's always done a great great job supporting kids. Um same goes for the church thing: they have—they have a very strong passion want their church in session, and we have our racetrack—that's what we do. And you guys have your kids who would do their thing, we do ours. We all have a certain passion, and I think that this track should stay. And another thing is, there's a back up northern Minnesota, Princeton, in Max County. They are in these almost the same exact—I don't know the number of years the track's been around—but they are in the same boat. There is a highway right behind the pit area same as the fairgrounds here in Cannon Falls. Um and there are houses there that are closer to the track than there are here in Cannon Falls. That's all I got. Thank you. (Applause). [2:44:27] **Chair Bruce:** I'm going to repeat the third and last call. Hearing none, I'm going to close it. Okay committee, do your thing. Do we have anybody here from the fairboard? Furland, you're on the fairboard. **Furland Miller:** I am on the fairboard. **Jesse Hemma:** I understand that uh that um—I've always had questions about this—that the Cannon Valley Fair is an—was originally put together as an Agricultural Society fair, is that correct? **Furland Miller:** That is correct. **Jesse Hemma:** Is it still? **Furland Miller:** From our knowledge and everything we've done—checking with the Regional Fair and everything else—yes, we are. **Jesse Hemma:** Is that um basically the same thing that the same society that deals with the county in the—and the state fair? **Furland Miller:** Correct, we're members of it. Voting rights to it, receive money from it. **Jesse Hemma:** And so you're a nonprofit? **Furland Miller:** We're nonprofit. **Jesse Hemma:** And is the fair losing money every year? **Furland Miller:** I would say I would say no. I I mean no, we're not losing money. But what we're making is very little by the time we pay. It's not going backwards—not completely backwards. It's almost a break-even to just a slight profit maybe. **Jesse Hemma:** So, because it's a nonprofit, um can you run a for-profit business on the facility? **Furland Miller:** There's two parts to the fair. There's two parts to the fair, correct. You got a 513C and you got the fair—the Cannon Valley Fair Association. The 5013C is what businesses can donate to the fair as "Friends of the Fair." [2:46:17] **Jesse Hemma:** I'm a little confused about that. Um you know that the reason that that fairground is—was located there originally—and I'm—I've lived here all my life, I'm only uh 54—and it's been here for 109 years, so I I I can't tell you. Okay, the original reason of course was the Agricultural Society correct? In—in but 1915 they picked that location because because it is a natural amphitheater. They didn't have grandstands; they sat on the hillside and it was a natural amphitheater in this area. And I can guarantee you it still is, uh and it amplifies everything from that valley and it goes up the valley. Now, it's true that you can have uh different decibels, high decibels, but the frequencies make a big difference. And I'm pretty knowledgeable about that—I've got a nice pair of hearing aids here. Um they do make a huge difference, and I can tell you that it does go to the uh—the noises do go through um all the way up to the east side of town, or at least—at least to West Main where I live. Um but I I'm—I'm curious: you receive monies from Goodhue County, is that correct? Correct. Tax monies every year. You're not a county fair deal? **Furland Miller:** I'm not going to answer all the financial stuff. **Jesse Hemma:** Get County funds? **Furland Miller:** You get County funds. **Jesse Hemma:** So just like the county fair does, which is kind of interesting I think. Um so you also accept donations from people—they become Friends of the Fair, which they basically can be at a different level of what they get with that Friends of the Fair. **Furland Miller:** We'll even take your money for Friends of the Fair if you want to give it. **Jesse Hemma:** What's it? Yeah, I know you would. Well I know that 50 years ago, when I was younger, um yes I very much enjoyed the stock car races at—at the fairgrounds. Uh 50 years ago, those 80-plus homes uh to the south of the fairgrounds didn't exist, and there was a lot of woods in between and uh they were fun races, they're a lot of fun. I'd love to have a gokart too myself, but I like motors. But um... and I can see you know where—where the interest would be for the kids and stuff. But the fact is that Cannon Falls is evolved. And I'm not really sure that the fairboard understands that we've evolved. We've got probably 80-what-plus buildings up there along the side of it, up on the hill, up on the bluff, and they're taxpayers to the city. Now I don't know how much income the city receives from from the fair, or how much income the city receives from your profitable businesses that run there. I'm—I'm confused about that. These are just some basic questions I just you know just have gone through my mind here thinking about all of this, because I do see it as a huge asset to the community. The fair is a huge asset to the community and we have to be sensitive to the community. And let's face it you know, in 1915 they didn't have amplification either you know, they just whoever could talk the loudest was heard. So things are really evolved. Um so I've—I've got some pretty interesting questions. I don't know that the city benefits—the city itself uh benefits from any real estate taxes or income taxes, do they? **Zach (City Planner):** We don't receive anything from... **Jesse Hemma:** So—so you got a problem with me there. Um, and it's always been that way, it's been 150 years—fine. But when you're starting to affect the way the city evolves, then you have to change your own views. And I feel like you're locked into something that maybe isn't approp—appropriate for—for this city. It's a lot of—sounds like a lot of fun, I'd love to do it you know—I like things that go fast. **Furland Miller:** Well, we could get to one. **Jesse Hemma:** Yeah, I'll tell you I like to go 150 miles an hour, and I do about 10 feet off the ground, but uh—or did in my life. But you know I I just see that there's an insensitivity to the city from the fairgrounds. And uh—tell me, are all your board members citizens of Cannon Falls? **Furland Miller:** Not all of them, most of them. **Jesse Hemma:** Citizens of Goodhue County? **Furland Miller:** Absolutely, they're all citizens of Goodhue County, yes. **Jesse Hemma:** Just curious, I don't know the makeup of your... and I assume that you hire agencies to do the land, or do you do all that to the—mow the property and keep it up? **Furland Miller:** We mow it all, we take care of everything ourselves. **Jesse Hemma:** I know you guys don't get anything for that. I know that. No, that's great, I understand that. But I just really think that your board needs to be more sensitive to the community's needs, and I and I really don't—I don't know if I'm hearing that. [2:51:48] **Furland Miller:** First of all, I'm wondering how this got started and what... Because you're under the uh—you're still under the rules from the Agricultural Society, if I assume? There's a huge book of rules with that society... **Furland Miller:** Too much for my small brain to read. **Jesse Hemma:** Yeah, I'm pretty sure there is. I'm just curious about these things. So that's all I had, but I I just really um... I think it's a wonderful thing for the kids to do. I think it's—it's a great asset to the community. The fair itself is. And there are ways that the uh board maybe needs to be a little more considerate of—of the city. And I'm not sure that I'm hearing that. **Furland Miller:** I think we've made adjustments to what we do with the track well to take into considerations. We are open to listening to the the neighborhood; we've done that, trying to listen to some people about it. **Jesse Hemma:** Well, you're not endangering your situation with the Agricultural Society by doing this, are you? **Furland Miller:** No. **Jesse Hemma:** You're positive about that? **Furland Miller:** As far as I know, okay. **Jesse Hemma:** I'm not about... How about the county? You going to get their funds if you continue to have a profitable business there? **Furland Miller:** I think it's two separate entities, okay. **Jesse Hemma:** Well, I don't understand that—someone will have to explain that to me. **Furland Miller:** Yeah, I don't know. We got to have ways to bring money in to fix buildings. The funds you get from the Goodhue County isn't enough. If someone has a really good idea over there to bring in funds and willing to drive it, we're open to it. **Jesse Hemma:** I've heard—I've heard different things, but at this point the count—or the the fair is not in the red, it's still profitable? **Furland Miller:** We're about as close to the red as you can be. **Jesse Hemma:** Well, I—I understand. **Furland Miller:** And if we had to hire someone to do the mowing, we'd probably be in the red. **Jesse Hemma:** I understand nonprofits. Okay, thank you very much for your time. [2:53:45] **Diane Johnson:** Any other questions? I follow up on Bruce's first. Um, the Cannon Valley Fair Association Incorporated is registered as a non-for-profit in the state of Minnesota under you? **Furland Miller:** I'm not the one to answer this, I'm not... **Diane Johnson:** Okay, we got 501C, what—what's—what's the name of that one? **Furland Miller:** That's for the Friends of the Fair. Did someone... Robin, are you in here? She could probably give you a better answer on that. **Robin (Fair Board):** The Cannon Valley Fair is what we run under. The account—I just do the books, but we have an accountant that manages all of our uh taxes. They did start doing storage—I don't know when, um somebody else might know when the storage started—and that was uh winter storage to help support fund the fair um and the buildings. So most of this is for uh all the things that we do are trying to get funding to make sure we can maintain our buildings, get the grandstand you know back to where it should be. We had an engineer we had to pay an engineering firm to come in because we don't want anything to happen to that. So we have work... that's all public information, you have to publish that information, yeah. So we do go and do all of those things. So the—the funding and the storage is all for that. So we do pay and um unrelated business income tax on those fund funds as part of what we do. But that money goes to the Cannon Valley Fair Association, the Cannon Valley Fair. Mm-hmm. **Diane Johnson:** Okay. And the Friends of the Fair is a separate organization? **Robin (Fair Board):** Yes. I think almost all county fairs all have the same setup. Okay. There's the fair and then they have the Friends of the Fair—you'll see that at Goodhue County County Fair. **Diane Johnson:** We're not a county fair. **Robin (Fair Board):** No, but we're set up in the same way because we were originally under uh as an Agricultural Association they handle all... and yeah, so it's still set up that way. **Diane Johnson:** Okay, just clarification on that, yeah. **Furland Miller:** Anything else for me? Too much (Laughter) already. Good. [2:56:13] **Jesse Hemma:** I got I got something. Um so is this—my understanding of this is that a lot of stuff was bypassed um as far as planning meetings and whatnot. Was—was that because of the the fair being part of uh an egg society that was part of...? **Furland Miller:** Yes, I was correct. That's what it all started out as as moving along with it. When it came out, we came in here for a a meeting to discuss the track being built—that was last year. We we talked about that. Um there was people opposing it at that time that was here; they everybody spoke. Um as far as knowing that it was uh this Urban Reserve ground, like I say, I didn't know that. As far as everything we knew from years ago—members of the fair—that kind of sat by itself. And you know, shame on me, then look at a zoning map. But I still don't understand how number one that little piece ends up as an Urban Reserve when supposed to be 10 acres and that one's only 8.9 acres, or how it got put in there. When did it get put in there? And even if it isn't in there, there's other zoning obviously that falls into the fairgrounds, which like I say—the senior people way before me was always understood the fair stood by itself. Um it also was that way with somebody who worked for the city full-time, similar position to Zach, had made that comment that that's just the way cities always handled the fairs—just let them kind of do their things so they survive. So my fault—we'll—we'll take the blame, we'll take the beating on that. It wasn't on purpose, it was what we had heard from the past and people we've talked to. [2:58:28] **Jesse Hemma:** So um does uh—does the Goodhue County Fair belong to the egg Society? **Furland Miller:** Correct. **Jesse Hemma:** Um and and so if that's—if what you're saying is true and—and you're still an egg society, um why are we um talking about this? **Furland Miller:** Um I I feel there's difference on the on the city's level maybe at this point saying we're not, because it does say in there that it's one county fair. But what it does also state is associations. We're Cannon Valley Fair Association. It can have one county fair; it means you can't have two county fairs in one county. Um uh in the—from—and and my information may not be correct um because uh I looked into this a little bit before I got here tonight um and what I read in some of the Minnesota statutes when it talks about um County Agricultural society's formation and powers um generally or specifically it says an Agricultural Society or association may be incorporated by citizens of any county or two or more counties jointly, but only one Agricultural Society shall be organized in any county. So is that what's... do we have—do we have one in Goodhue for the count—County Fair? And then does that verbiage mean that technically we're not allowed to have one via this—via the state? That is—is that—is that—is that what's sort of driving this? **Furland Miller:** That's what turned it this way. But we still believe that we're part of the the egg society and at this point everything we found out from Ira, we get voting rights to it, we receive money from it. Usually if you're not part of something, you don't get voting rights. So I would say that that's telling us we're part of something. Okay. And I think that was probably in place probably way before some of the verbiage that we're reading and we're probably grandfathered in. Probably today there won't be a new fair started up that's not a county fair that would be part of it, right? But in 109 years, there's probably light somewhere along the line that allows us to stay as that, and that's why we got voting rights and we don't want to endanger that, correct. Community does not want to endanger that. They want it, they like the fair; it's great for the community. [3:01:21] **Jesse Hemma:** Correct. What I'm ask—my question is: is are you endangering that? You know, fairs, whether it's county fairs or any other fair within this state, are doing many different things to raise money to keep the fairs alive. They're not just living on just the county fair. **Furland Miller:** Well, we're not a county fair. **Jesse Hemma:** And that's... no, I'm just saying there's other fairs within here that we're not the only fair that's not a county fair within the state of Minnesota. What I'm saying is is fairs have to do other things—they they do. But we don't want—if you're not part of the Agricultural Society because you don't adhere to their rules, that's what I'm worried... **Furland Miller:** Well, I think we we are in the rights to do what we're doing to adhere to it. Because part of it is is we're not going to have a barn for horse shows or cows over there if we ain't coming up with more ways because the horses and cows don't pay for everything. **Jesse Hemma:** I know. And the—and the county helps subsidize that some. But—but yeah, you can see my point though. **Furland Miller:** I can see your... I don't want—I don't want to see the fair go away. **Jesse Hemma:** Well, that's what this whole purpose is is we don't want the fair to go away; we're here fighting to keep the fair here. **Jesse Hemma:** But my point is: maybe the board's insensitivity to community might affect that. **Furland Miller:** Well, right now from what I'm seeing it seems like there's more people in favor of doing this than against. You're not seeing that? **Jesse Hemma:** I'm not seeing that, no. Okay. I mean I see a lot of things that are interesting, but I don't see a a lot of uh of—of the—of the evidence of an evolution within the fair that relates to the community which which is supposed to be evolving, which is evolving. **Furland Miller:** It's—better if the—if we're going to go by that and you got houses who have built closer to a fairground that have been there since 109 years... so guarantee 50 years ago those houses weren't there. **Jesse Hemma:** That's my point. **Furland Miller:** So now they've built closer to it. You accept what's there. It'd be no different than me building a house down by the crap plant down here and have to smell it and say, "You can't have that anymore." If you move closer to something, it's there and you accept what can go on there. **Jesse Hemma:** And—and that's true, but as long as you don't endanger the livelihood of the fair. I don't think by the things that you do, you have to stay within the rules that I'm sure that the Agricultural Society puts out to you. **Furland Miller:** Well, I guess that's as far as the egg society—I don't—I don't know enough about it. We're not going to hire attorney to come explain it all; it doesn't make sense when we're being told from the top of the Regional Fair and stuff that we are so... **Jesse Hemma:** But you need to protect yourself somehow. **Furland Miller:** And I think we are protecting ourselves. We're not going to lose it from being part of it. **Jesse Hemma:** Well, you're the chairman of the board? **Furland Miller:** No. **Jesse Hemma:** Oh, okay. But we do have other fairs around that have board members that do... you have any—anybody legal within the board that would understand these things? **Furland Miller:** Our board? Yeah, no. That has legal training. **Jesse Hemma:** Not legal training, no. **Furland Miller:** Fair prior—cares someone legal training. **Jesse Hemma:** I'm—I'm—I'm sorry to bug you about this but you... I just don't want see—I I just don't want the to see something uh happen to—to—to the fair. And that's what I worry about. **Furland Miller:** I think that's what's in all of our minds of the best interest of what's going on. **Jesse Hemma:** But that's not what I've heard tonight. Okay. [3:05:21] **Diane Johnson:** Okay, let's uh move on. **Furland Miller:** All right, I'll stop. I I'll quit. I can get pesty, I'm sorry. **Diane Johnson:** The real reason we're here tonight though is to look at whether or not we want to modify the Urban Reserve zoning and allow motorized cart racing in Urban Reserve, which would apply not only to this particular a little shot of green on the zoning map, but all around? **Zach (City Planner):** Correct. **Diane Johnson:** Correct. And so then I think the question for us is... we all may love the fair, we all might want the fair to survive, but the real issue is: do we allow uh motorized cart racing in Urban Reserve zoning? **Jesse Hemma:** Correct. **Diane Johnson:** Correct. **Furland Miller:** But the—the conditional use that would follow with all the would help with other areas, right? **Diane Johnson:** But I mean... so because we've—we have other Urban Reserve areas? **Zach (City Planner):** Correct. **Diane Johnson:** And that means that they would be open to having motorized gokarts also if somebody else wanted to come into town and do it? **Furland Miller:** Right, if they make your conditional use, right? Yeah, with all the stuff. **Diane Johnson:** So I think that's the question we deal with tonight um... **Chair Bruce:** Correct. Thank you. And you have your private conversations... it's the Norwegian in me. But I—I believe with where our cart track sits, probably most of your urban area wouldn't give you a 700-foot distance from housing and this and that. There's a good chance that don't meet that, which could be a conditional use. **Diane Johnson:** And it also means, though, in the going forward, if we annex more acreage into the city, that would—could also become Urban Reserve and therefore... I mean, we could have a developer come in, have us annex thing and then next thing turn around and say gokarts? **Furland Miller:** It could, or you could even put it... Can't you put a conditional use saying that this is for a fairground's purpose? **Zach (City Planner):** And that would lock it down. We got—gotta change of text amendment for the Urban Reserve; we can't—we can't specifically say it's for the Urban Reserve and the fairgrounds. **Furland Miller:** No, the the text language changes and then what I'm saying is the conditional use would be for the fairgrounds, not the about the rest of the Urban Reserve. **Jesse Hemma:** That's how I would... that would be a lawyer-type question if if one can restrict that in such a way that no one else would be able to apply. **Scott Lansman (City Attorney’s Office):** So I I think the question is: can a—conditional use permit be limited to a single user? **Chair Bruce:** Yes. **Scott Lansman (City Attorney’s Office):** And the answer is no. **Jesse Hemma:** That's right. That's what I—that's what I thought we had. [3:08:30] **Chris Nobach:** Furland, can I ask a question here? Do you... so I'm just following up on some of Jim's questions, because they're what I had. Did any—was a camping permit pulled when people were camping down there? Did you go through the city to do all that stuff, or do you not have to because you're a fairboard or how'd that work? **Furland Miller:** No, someone obviously from community or whatever called, and it—it started with the—with the demolition derby on "Memorial Madness," which as a fairgrounds we didn't know that you needed anything like that. So then the state reached out to us, and every time there's been a—a camping event, we've had to get a permit. The whoever's going to run the event has to get the permit; they're allowed two a year. **Chris Nobach:** Okay, so that was all taken care of? **Furland Miller:** No different than when what Amy Klobuchar and the bike thing was here—they pulled the permit for the tenting down there. **Chris Nobach:** So who—who's on the hook if something happens down there? Do you guys have an insurance policy that covers it, or is it the city or who? **Furland Miller:** No, no, it's so for the like the track, Jeff carries insurance to cover the track. And then ours would probably be a backup policy behind that. Just like any other event down there—if you're—if there's an event down there, they got to carry insurance and that's required. [3:09:56] **Scott Lansman (City Attorney’s Office):** Mr. Chair, I think that some of the questions are going beyond the scope of what I'm looking for... Comm—commissioner Johnson was on with regards to, again, the question is whether or not um to allow this as a condition of use within the zone, looking at consistency and compatibility, and then if it's allowed, then look at the conditions that would be attached to it. **Jesse Hemma:** So my—my biggest concern is um if—if—if we allow the uh text amendment, it's—it's not for the—just for the track at the fairgrounds; it's for any Urban Reserve area in the city of Cannon Falls. And I just—I don't want to go down that road as a committee and going forward as a council. Um we have to look out for the benefit of the future of the citizens of Cannon Falls, not for just this one specific thing. You know, they can say, "Okay, we can just this once... let's just use that for an example." Well, just this once... it's just for this. But it's not, because somebody else is always going to come in and say, "That's a good idea, we can do this over here because of what they did over there." And there's no way really we can stop the snowballing effect, whether that would happen or not. But that's—that's my opinion and that's how I feel about it. Everybody... I mean I—I don't know what to say on it. What are we going to do with the rest of the fair period? As if we're going to go after one thing, are we going after the whole fair? Is that the consensus that I'm pulling here? Because we're not going to survive as a fair and if we're worried about one motorsport event that we're limited in noise and doing our best to meet the community to help us out, what's next? That's my question. What's next? Because we got to survive and fair... **Jesse Hemma:** And you—you've survived for 100-how-many years and all of a sudden you're not going to be able to do it without...? **Furland Miller:** I have—have you been there seen the buildings? **Jesse Hemma:** Yeah, I go every year. **Furland Miller:** Okay, well there's a cafe that used to be... do you remember that? **Jesse Hemma:** Yeah. **Furland Miller:** Well, that's barely hanging on to legs. Uh some of the barns pretty bad shape. Come on in there and look at them up close. But it's be—it's because whether this track is a go or no-go is going to depend on what—what happens to the fair moving forward? **Furland Miller:** No, we got to come up with other income sources, yes. And I can ask 100 people: does anybody got a great idea for it? It's an outdoor venue, we don't have anything that can sustain. All the barns are cold, there's nothing for heat. What other ideas do people have? Um I—I—I don't know. We've kicked every idea around. It's hard to get... you can get a lot of participation with a race; I'll guarantee you that. A lot of other stuff over there like a craft show or whatever you want isn't going to be a big participant showing. That's what we need—we need people there, we need the place to be used you know. We gave up our—when the park was flooded, someone needed a spot to go for a graduation party, we gave them the barn to use, right? I mean, the fair is willing to work with lots of people, but we also got to come up with ways to fund things. I understand that you know. [3:13:35] **Furland Miller:** We now have you know when you say that we don't pay for the property tax and all that... I can respect that. But now all of a sudden we came with a water bill that started out as $1,100 that was going to be there every month, and we've never faced that before. We got 50% of a wave because of storm runoff while they... **Scott Lansman (City Attorney’s Office):** Mr. Chair, again this is going off from what the the charge for the commission is. It's to look at whether or not yep to change do a zoning text amendment, not the the water bill. **Furland Miller:** Okay. So committee done beating me up? **Chair Bruce:** Yeah, for now. [3:14:14] **Jesse Hemma:** I have just one more legal question. Um if it is required now for the racetrack to have this change in the zoning, why wasn't it required a year ago? **Chair Bruce:** Text amendment. Yeah, what changed in the zoning? **Scott Lansman (City Attorney’s Office):** Um I—as I will let you know that I was not involved in that aspect and wasn't. But from what I'm reading the staff report and my understanding is that um there was misinformation with regards to what the fair actually was. Um my what I'm hearing is that um it doesn't fall under the society statutes, it falls under—it's a actual—it's a—it's a organized nonprofit organization, which is separate—different than than the society itself. And so the society—if you fall under the chapter—chapter 38 of Minnesota statutes, you're exempt from uh City zoning. And if you're not within chapter 38, then the City zoning would apply. And that I'm assuming that was the change; you probably would know more about that. **Jesse Hemma:** So I see City Administrator is shaking his head yes. **Diane Johnson:** The fair board just said they are part of the egg society though. Have we definitely determined that that's not the case? **Scott Lansman (City Attorney’s Office):** Well, what I—what I heard was... well first of all, I think the determination made by—by when staff looking at it found out with more information, it sounds like that they are a uh Minnesota nonprofit corporation, which is different than being a uh part of a society under this chapter 38. Chapter 38 doesn't require you to uh register as a corporation with the city. And plus it also says with the society there only can be one in the—in the county, and it sounds like we have one already, which is not the fair in question. [3:16:15] **Jesse Hemma:** Thank you. **Furland Miller:** Can I make a comment here? I'd like to address that. So it's—it's like two businesses. And—and you keep saying the—the corporation... it's like two business where egg society covers the whole fairgrounds and everything else. The corporation portion of it is to accept businesses donations. It's two separate—two separate things. The track is part of the egg society, just like the horse track, just like everything else out there—that's the egg society portion. **Scott Lansman (City Attorney’s Office):** Well, we seem to be having a conflict in—in it being an egg society or not, correct. **Furland Miller:** And—and—and that goes back to last year you know—we moved along, no one stopped it that it was not an aerde—that didn't come up play till just recently. And now there's a lot of money built into this because we were operating and we were let to be operated under this chapter 38 where we didn't have to follow any of this. And now it's being thrown on us. There's a lot of money spent out there to bring this in here. We were going to do this text change to be good partners with the city and work with everybody—that—that was our idea. That's what we're here for. **Jesse Hemma:** So if—if you're an egg society in theory, you don't have to do that, correct? **Furland Miller:** Correct. **Jesse Hemma:** So why are we doing this? That's my point. **Furland Miller:** Why are we doing it? Because we—because you're not an egg society. We are! That's what we're—our stance is we are. **Diane Johnson:** Then there—then I think this goes back to the—the commissioner's point that there's where it says in the statute you can only have one in the county. And it seems that there's more than one operating in the county. And so either the other county fair is in trouble—not trouble, but the county fair is jeopardized, or this fair is jeopardized. Is that—that was your point, right? [3:18:23] **Scott Lansman (City Attorney’s Office):** Well, I guess I couldn't find a business registration for the Goodhue County Fair because I didn't know what its proper name was. I did find one for the Cannon Falls Valley—Cannon Valley Fair Association, which is registered as a non—nonprofit corporation domestic. Okay, so that makes sense; I mean a 501, you need in order to have be a—get be have federal tax uh designation of 501C3, you have to be a nonprofit in Minnesota. But that didn't tell me: is there a different business registration for like the Goodhue County Fair? I—I don't know, because I did not look into that. Um the—if app... I mean, like again, as I said: the—the—what the commission is doing here today is decide whether or not to allow this as a conditional use. If—if—if that is then allowed with conditions, application will be made and at that point a deeper um investigation can be made of whether or not the the fair is subject to the requirement of a conditional use. Um but as of right now, it's just a matter of is—is it going to be allowed or not with regard to it as a conditional use. [3:19:57] **Chair Bruce:** Okay. Clear—clear as mud. **Jesse Hemma:** Yeah. I I guess I'd just like to go on record: I'm—I'm—I'm frustrated how we got here myself. I it's—it's not clear, it's not very clear. It's become more clear over the night, but a go back a year ago... why it didn't seem like we were working together. The fair should have been working with us; we should have been working with a fair. You know, good stewards, all that stuff should have happened. Uh I can sympathize with the residents, the taxpayers that have all the noise issues that probably went to that meeting. I just don't know how we got here and why you know now it's to a boiling point, I guess. And that frustrates me; I feel like it should have been taken care of back then. Um I guess some new facts have come to light, but it's just—it's unfortunate because, like you said, money has been put in there and you have all these supporters that really enjoy it. I used to go to it to fair—to races when I was a kid. Fond memories, all that stuff. Love the fair. Um I think end of the day, I—I sympath—sympathize with the taxpayers and the noise situation. I live um on the northeast side of town; I can hear it from my house, too. Um it's—it's a problem in my opinion, and I don't think it's consistent with what the city wants to be now. That being said, I do—this is the Planning Commission—I do want to work with the fair board. I think having these conversations, maybe even in a private setting if you just want to set up meetings, stuff like that... those are good situations to have. It's only going to bring out those good ideas that you want. Um I guess that's just my how I feel on it so. **Furland Miller:** And I'm with you—it was over a year ago we were in here and nothing was... **Jesse Hemma:** And I would say a year ago too you know, that—my understanding was that was city council you know—I wasn't here a year ago, Jesse wasn't here a year ago, I don't—Bruce isn't on city council. Um you know so it's unfortunate the way it evolved, I guess is what I'm saying. **Furland Miller:** Correct. And at that time the attorney sitting here for the city rode the chapter 38 and basically said there wasn't a whole lot with the fair that could be done. **Jesse Hemma:** That's when we told you were an egg society. **Furland Miller:** Yes, and we used it because your attorney had said that. So we just did what we could. [3:22:20] **Jesse Hemma:** Here's—here's what I'm going to ask you: is there a way that we can just table this, put some more information together, and maybe get together with Furland and uh iron a few of these wrinkles out before we make any our decisions tonight? **Scott Lansman (City Attorney’s Office):** Um the answer is yes, but um the—my understanding is from the City Administrator is that we may be um have certain—and Zach can—can you can chime in too, but we may be under certain time restraints with regards to the 60-day rule and making a decision. So we would need an extension of that. Um I we request that you know you can make it on the—you can do a indefinite extension on the record um but we that an hour we got to do that as part of the city council... **Scott Lansman (City Attorney’s Office):** Well no, we can—we can do—you can make you can table any you can table items if you want, but I think we would need an extension and then he would have need to submit something in in writing. Do you know where we are with the—how much—what our time frame is on that? **Zach (City Planner):** Uh yeah. Uh date-wise... well he's going to look for when decisions have to be be made. And this—for anybody who doesn't know on the commission, you you may know that you know we—the city council—the city has only so many days to make a decision. And so that's what 15.99 is, is that we have 60 extending out to 120 days to make a decision from the time of a complete application. **Zach (City Planner):** July 30th. **Scott Lansman (City Attorney’s Office):** So 60 days from July 30th. But we can request an extension I 120 so let's just do it anyway. [3:24:25] **Diane Johnson:** Okay, I guess what I would say is that um if—if you're—if you're looking to do a table on it, maybe have uh the applicant make a uh a waiver of the of 15.99. They can—they can rescind that waiver if they want; they can set it—they can extend it out, say you normally get 120 days they could say, "Well, I'll give you an extra 30 days they get it done," or however it is however you want it to—to be done, or another 60 days. Um and then follow up—if the applicant wants to do that, then follow-up is just a—an email or writing saying what he's going to do. And if you do that, then um I feel comfortable with—with uh doing—with tabling to the next uh Planning Commission meeting. [3:25:12] **Chris Nobach:** Are you okay with that? Here—here's my question though: if we table that, how many more races are going to happen between now and that table? **Furland Miller:** Uh Jeff, do you know? **Jeff Schubert:** We got a race scheduled for this coming Saturday and then we're off until... we only have—we only have four races left for the whole year. **Jesse Hemma:** So I guess my question would be: if we table it and the people that are having issue with it right now, are they going to have to deal with it for another—they're going to have to deal with it till we make a decision—is kind of what I'm thinking. I really think we should vote on this. **Diane Johnson:** Yes. **Chris Nobach:** I would—I guess I would make a motion to deny the text amendment as written or the or zone ordinance as written. **Jesse Hemma:** I would second. **Chair Bruce:** Uh motion second. Uh motion by Nobach, second by Hemma to deny the text amendment. Is there any further discussion? And just to be clear, this is to make a recommendation to the city council um for denial. This is not the actual denial itself, that's correct? **Scott Lansman (City Attorney’s Office):** Correct. **Jesse Hemma:** Any further discussion? Right. **Chris Nobach:** Does this have to have a findings of fact attached to it? **Scott Lansman (City Attorney’s Office):** Uh the record itself is—would be enough for the findings itself that you can take to the council. Um what I recommend—if it goes to the council, the council obviously can make their decision on—on how they want, and they can read the record to that makes the findings. Um and then it would—at the council level, it would require a written resolution if it—if there was—if there was denial of it. **Chair Bruce:** Any further discussion? All in favor? (I, I). Opposed? Carries. [3:27:18] **Furland Miller:** Thank you. On to the next step. So what's the—what's the next step then? I'm not sure where you guys are going or what. **Chair Bruce:** So the city council meeting this next... this—this is just a recommendation. It'll go to the city council on September 3rd, and this—I mean this will be part of their—I mean it'll be on their agenda. **Furland Miller:** This is advisory only? **Chair Bruce:** Yep. Yep. **Furland Miller:** And city council makes the actual decision? **Chair Bruce:** Yeah. So their uh recommendation is to deny, yep. **Furland Miller:** Okay. All right, thank you. Thanks for... [3:27:50] **Chris Nobach:** Motion to adjourn. **Jesse Hemma:** Second. **Chair Bruce:** Motion by Nobach, second by Hemma to adjourn. All in favor? (I). Adjourn.