[0:17] Tom Fitzhenry: okay we'll go ahead and call the meeting to order I'll remind everybody that uh please silence your cell phone uh those that are online if you would mute and tell your asked to make a comment and uh we do not have a full Quorum yet tonight so we won't be moving any action items we won't be able to move on them so uh we'll go through a welcome we might as well introduce everybody on ours and then we can introduce the staff you want to start Dan [0:53] Dan Wolter: uh Dan Wolter uh airport user [0:56] Tom Fitzhenry: Tom Fitzhenry co-chair for the user group [0:59] John Bermel: John Bermel I'm a co-chair at Lakeville City Council [1:02] Pat Moran: Pat Moran I'm an airport user [1:04] Steve Getter: Steve Getter airport user [1:07] Christa Jack: Christa Jack Lakeville Chamber of Commerce [1:10] Katie BM: hi Katie BM I'm the economic development manager for the city and staff if you want to introduce yourself [1:13] Jennifer Lewis: hello everyone I'm Jennifer Lewis I'm the MAC community relations coordinator and the meeting coordinator [1:22] Sam Siegel: good afternoon Sam Siegel Airport Manager [1:27] Michele Ross: manager of community relations [1:30] Marissa Trap: uh Marissa Trap manager of environmental Affairs [1:34] Grace Olson: Grace Olson MAC environmental Affairs [1:37] Tom Fitzhenry: hey thank you all again uh we do not have a Corum so we'll just go through the items rather than approve them uh we can look at the agenda what's next on your screen here if you pull it up okay went through that uh so we can't approve the oh we may be he's the user though Adam you want to introduce yourself we just did [2:14] Adam Forsburg: my name is Adam Forsburg FBO owner [2:18] Tom Fitzhenry: what I forgot to do is check online uh Who's online so uh people online if you would just check in state your name and uh possibly Who You Are [2:41] Jennifer Lewis: we have one person um commissioner Beane from the Metropolitan airports commission board and that's all [2:54] Tom Fitzhenry: okay thank you very much okay uh so uh we have nobody in the audience for comments so I guess we don't have to go through the the comments uh we'll go right to Sam for Airport Manager update and I want to thank Sam for using the uh email that goes out they'll let us know about the crack filling and the paint it actually works so thank you [3:09] Sam Siegel: yeah happy to report we did have uh through other projects which I'll outline here in a minute but they uh we had three night closures the and they they were 10 p.m. to 6 a.m. uh John Ham the airport maintenance worker he was here for all three events and he didn't uh you know notice any aircraft that uh pilot that didn't know about the closure so there's nobody out trying to taxi out to take off or approaching into land so that's always a good thing when you have the airport closed um so other projects you know that we finished the taxway Bravo uh LED Edge lighting and uh uh in addition to that project we added in a couple side projects um and one of them was uh installing new conduit it in electrical line to the wind sock we have been having issues with the wind sock it's been NOTAMed inoperative multiple times over the past year so it's good to get that uh some continuous power uh we don't know where the uh Integrity is broken in that underground line but it's it's all fixed now in addition we replaced the runway 12 Runway Edge identifier lights uh unfortunately though the motherboard went bad during the installation it was you know how they they strobe at a certain frequency per minute and it was strobing too fast so uh currently waiting replacement motherboards for the brand new uh REIL lights that we have installed and then uh the second thing here I have is the crack seal project which took place August 21st through the 23rd and again that that had two closures um you can see on your screen now we we had six more than 60 of these type cracks I went out and took a picture of the worst one but uh they're they're filled in now it's not completely smooth so you still feel the normal bump that you'd feel over a crack seal but um it's a Band-Aid for at least a couple years to to fix what we had as was a growing problem literally uh growing and uh expanding each winter so glad to get that project done and then following that we were able to uh employ MAC paint crew and they came out and closed one night and painted the whole airport so we have fresh paint uh everywhere in the airport taxiways and Runway uh 2025 projected project we just have one thing and that's a replacement AWOS system um and uh I've I've been made aware of possible discrepancies with what what it's reporting now so working on getting a state Aeronautics technician out to come and take a look and do some tests on on wind in in altimeter settings [6:38] Dan Wolter: what's an AWOS system? [6:40] Sam Siegel: okay so it's the automated weather observation system and that's uh what Pilots use to make sure they have the correct pressure current pressure of the day you know that changes that fluctuates so your altimeter is reading correct and then it also gives you other data like wind and ceiling height temperature dew point um and comments that you might have about the airport like right now we have a right traffic comment and then a calm wind Runway comment on there as well that's all I have any questions [7:11] Tom Fitzhenry: any questions anything else um I might step back somebody walked in the room so I would ask uh that person did you have any comments you wish to make to the board or anything okay thank you we don't have to ask your questions okay uh then if you're done we'll move on to the aircraft noise complaints and operation summary [7:22] Jennifer Lewis: okay thank you Mr chair I will cover the aircraft operations and noise complaints for Quarter Two of 2024 and on your screen um we have basically a summary that talks about how we at the MAC accept complaints um anyone who wants to submit a complaint is allowed to do so they generally will go through the phone line through our website or their customer account um but we also take them in person um in in other forms but the complaints I receive 24 hours a day any complaint that we receive we do try to match up with an actual aircraft operation and the operations that we um will try to um match with the complaint um the operations are are um it's it's a data s a data service that we subscribe to for our flight tracking system and those data are published through our flight tracker at MACnoise.com so anyone has the ability to go onto the MAC flight tracker and uh view aircraft activ with either a a real time um minus one minute delay for security reasons or um they can always call us and ask what was that flight and that operated we we do have several folks who are using this tool to identify specific operations and that's generally detail that they share with us sometimes when they report um complaints to us so U for the quarter two we had two complaints that were submitted from two different households um both of those households were actually outside of the Southern metro area one of the complaint locations was in St Paul and the second complaint location was in Stillwater but both of those complaints were positively matched with departures from Air Lake airport so we know that yes these locations are far away but the operations actually did occur uh from Air Lake airport so um I didn't show a map on this screen because it's outside of our area here but if you are interested in knowing um we do share detail I'll just go here um on our interactive reports um if you go to this piece of our website the interactive reports provides all the detail we have available um about the complaint locations and the aircraft flight tracks that are associated with those complaints um in terms of operations level we we really are kind of flat actually when we compare this um quarter with last year the same quarter you can see on the screen we had 10,696 operations in quarter two 2024 and that's just slightly higher about 300 operations or fewer than 300 operations um compared to last year for the same quarter and you also see for nighttime operations um we had 340 operations during nighttime hours which for us that means between 10 p.m. and before 7 a.m. um last year at the same time we had 351 so a difference of 11 at this point I'll um stand for any questions about that [10:48] Tom Fitzhenry: do we know what their complaint was those outside uh was it actual noise or was it something else [10:55] Jennifer Lewis: noise and low flight um the flight over St Paul um was a PA32 that was about 900 ft above ground but they it looked like what they did is they flew over the top of MSP and so they were going to be held a little bit lower um but the flight over Stillwater was um I think around 11 or 1200 ft but that was a flight that was um they basically just doing a normal departure on their way to Duluth flew over Stillwater so nothing really terribly unusual about it and and they weren't even nighttime operations anyway they were daytime one was like 8:00 p.m. and the other one was I think around 10:00 a.m. [11:39] Tom Fitzhenry: I don't mean to catch you off guard but how many complaints on the four F-18s that came into Minneapolis the other day through that data [11:43] Jennifer Lewis: uh we did have we did have a few that came through but I I don't have a total for you yet [11:48] Dan Wolter: okay thanks uh quick question on the St Paul and Stillwater why are they logged against Lakeville [11:53] Jennifer Lewis: because the flights were uh initiated at Lakeville [12:01] Dan Wolter: oh here okay I'll say I don't understand if a flight occurs here but the noise complaint is in a city outside of the airport environment how the noise complaint could be assessed to this airport at that point because it it be like if somebody got a noise complaint in Wisconsin but took off from Lakeville we'd get that noise complaint too [12:28] Jennifer Lewis: or technically not because our system will only record complaints within the seven county metro area so a flight in Wisconsin would be outside of that area where we can actually document complaints and it's for reporting purposes that we try to tag a complaint to a specific airport [12:44] Tom Fitzhenry: you just happen to break our perfect zero record though [12:47] John Bermel: yeah so Jennifer I I have a quick question related to that because I mean I agree it just doesn't make sense in my head but how can we communicate to people that would look this information up and go you had two complaints how can we communicate that those have nothing to do with Lakeville other than the flight originated here for the person I and I'm thinking of constituents that are going to look at that and go yeah you have two complaints and they can see a problem that doesn't exist so is there some way to communicate that via the website [13:35] Jennifer Lewis: um I'm not sure the answer to that we generally try to always identify the specific operation that's related to any complaint that's received yeah and and we don't discriminate against who wants to submit a complaint or what they want to submit a complaint about so we will we will always try to um communicate very specifically with I would say um a person who has a concern to really address their concern about that particular operation because at least with general aviation the situation is so varied that it we really do lean on the specifics of an operation in order to try and help educate about Aviation general aviation and and airspace and what other rules and um so a complaint that is received by our office we're going to document it the best that we can and then we all always try to report that information for public use but the information um on our website does explain that these are only for complaints that we receive are used for analysis purposes only there's no enforcement um that we take against aircraft operators and that um the more specific that people can be with their complaint helps us in documenting what the actual concerns were [15:05] John Bermel: yeah thank you I just I really want to note that if somebody looks this up they're going to see two complaints in Lakeville that had nothing to do with Lakeville but um yeah if that's the way the system works and I guess [15:20] Tom Fitzhenry: I got a comment too uh you said 960 over Stillwater I'm got I got to guess they did a touch and go at Lake Elmo [15:30] Jennifer Lewis: no um it was um like 960 over St Paul [15:36] Tom Fitzhenry: oh St Paul St Paul operation come South St Paul then [15:42] Jennifer Lewis: no the the way that the track was um it it basically went over MSP and then continued sort of North eastbound [15:48] Tom Fitzhenry: okay well my concern is so if I take off here I originate here but a lot of flight schools do the round Robins okay touch it you know South St Paul maybe touch at St Paul to go over to Lake Elmo go to Anoka go to Crystal so if they're departing Crystal wouldn't that be the culprit versus Lakeville you know I'm guessing how that is how it would work but in this case this flight didn't touch it at any other airport inside our metro area [16:13] Tom Fitzhenry: okay I'm guessing it might have been pipeline too oh I don't know um it was a Piper he flies very low in that area [16:21] Dan Wolter: Okay so Jennifer uh just to help me understand if the flight originates from Lakeville does that pilot own that flight profile until he lands [16:35] Jennifer Lewis: yes wherever wherever [16:38] Dan Wolter: so but if they did a touch and go that would be the the you know where they land so we would count [16:44] Tom Fitzhenry: so you shoot an approach that doesn't count if your wheels touch the ground then it stops it [16:49] Jennifer Lewis: that's exactly right [16:50] Dan Wolter: so why is it based on the profile rather than uh a situation where you'd have uh like a designated airspace around the airport we'd have complaints logged against they were non towered but to me I'm just trying to use some logic here I mean if we had a 5 mile or 10 mile radius from the center of the airport that would make sense for complaints if a student you know to your point goes somewhere and does some hairbrain stuff way out of the region that doesn't seem logical [17:25] Jennifer Lewis: well the fact that we're tagging a complaint to a specific operation that operation where it operated I I'll give you an example if we had a flight that left say St Paul and flew to Air Lake and that same household submitted a complaint because the flight used St Paul Airport and Air Lake airport we would tag that complaint to St Paul because it would be closer to that Resident but we didn't have that situation here that flight didn't operate at any other MAC airport that's the other key is that um the flight if the flight had operated um to um let's say it did take off from Air Lake and it flew to South St Paul which is not a MAC airport we would still tag that complaint to a MAC airport where um on one end of the flight or the other so it wouldn't matter if it was an arrival or a departure when we're trying to for analysis um tag a complaint to a specific operation if that flight any part of that flight touched a MAC airport then it gets tagged to that MAC airport when we have to choose between two different MAC airports we'll choose the closer airport to that location now we do sometimes have complaints in Lakeville or the immediate area around um Air Lake Airport like right now MSP flights a lot of MSP complaints are coming from Lakeville but all of those complaints are tagged to MSP operations that are generating those complaints not Air Lake airport complaints so it it it matters where the location is with respect to an airport but only in that that it matters where the flight came from or or or landed [19:25] Dan Wolter: so is it specific to MAC airports because I'm thinking a student goes to Mason City for along cross country they have a complaint down there does that still get logged back to Air Lake [19:37] Jennifer Lewis: if the location that filed the complaint is within the seven County Metro area [19:42] Dan Wolter: Okay do we ever talk or send a reminder to these Pilots that do that that we have a complaint and make them aware of what might have happened or [19:54] Jennifer Lewis: on occasion um it really depends on the flight itself um for example if if in these two situations they were very normal operations um most of the operation was under positive control so we would not be reaching out to the pilot if there was something unusual about the flight and and and we would like to know a little more about it either because we need to follow up with the person who submitted the complaint or we want to know for ourselves what was happening with that operation then we would try to reach out to the aircraft operator but again it it's really a judgment call as to does it look like a normal operation or is there something more that we need to do and it's situational [21:10] Tom Fitzhenry: okay any more questions thank you very much [21:12] Jennifer Lewis: you're welcome okay uh next will be the fly neighborly web page very much we're going to talk about being flying being neighborly when we're flying and what you'll notice in front of all of you is the final result of some work that this group did during our last meeting in June um you might recall we went through some um significant discussion about the noise abatement best practices so we made some changes to the draft plan that was presented to you during the last meeting the final plan is there before you it does incorporate all of the changes that were requested during the last meeting and then we took that best practices to the next level and created a fly neighborly guide and that consolidates the information into to a one sheet reference document which is also there in front of you but we also created a fly neighborly web page on the MAC website where we publish all of the fly neighborly guides created for each of the MAC airports and then we also recognize that um some um of the Pilots use ForeFlight which is um electronic navigation tool and flight planning tool um very common um for Pilots to use there's many different tools out there but ForeFlight is a commonly used tool so we worked with ForeFlight to create some custom content that is available for pilots who have that tool to access the fly neighborly guide um through that tool right during their flight or during their flight uh flight planning process and um when they're using ForeFlight and um pulling up this information on in their ForeFlight tool on their tablets this is what they'll see um they'll they'll be able to um take a look at what we call the fly neighborly Zone which is blue a blue circle around the airport and when they click on that um Circle there's a link there that opens up the fly neighborly guide also so what we've tried to do is make it really easy for Pilots to know know what the flying neighborly um um best practices are to have access to them at their fingertips while they're flying their aircraft or while they're doing their flight planning um I I'll go back to our flight neighborly web page because some Pilots that use MAC airports use more than one MAC airport so all of the MAC um airports are listed on our fly neighborly web page so um all a pilot really needs to do is access that page and then they have access to all all of the fly neighborly um information that we have for each MAC airport I'll stand for questions [24:05] Pat Moran: Jennifer have you talked at all with MnDOT about including the fly neighborly links in their content packs for ForeFlight because MnDOT has uh the Minnesota airport directory that uh is downloaded and that might if you if it's not there right now it might be a good way to uh get it disseminated [24:26] Jennifer Lewis: that's an excellent idea we are still in the process of getting this information out so I'm very very happy to work with them on that we are also working with AirNav um trying to get the information through um um available through AirNav and then the chart supplement is another um resource that we are trying to get the link directly to the fly neighborly page that's a little bit challenging but we are working through the process so I'm definitely going to be following up with MnDOT and any other suggestions that you have um for getting this information out I would greatly appreciate [25:06] Tom Fitzhenry: any other comments for hearing none we'll move on to Environment 101 with Marissa [25:12] Marissa Trap: uh yes good afternoon again Marissa Trap with MAC environmental Affairs um along with Grace Olson our Environmental Compliance specialist um you may have seen Grace out at the airport this last year um doing environmental inspections and there are fieldwork um so today um our goal really is to just provide a general overview of the MAC environmental Affairs Department what we do who we are um and also provide an opportunity thank you um for this group to ask any questions that you may have of us or ways we can continue to be a resource um at the airport and for our tenants um let's see this one so um just to give an overview of our department we've kind of filled out our staff a little bit more this year and so we have five of us um at MAC environmental Affairs myself Grace and three other folks uh Mark Wasek, Ryan Mintz and Luis Sule all with various environmental um air quality waste recycling um responsibilities uh we also partner with Terracon environmental Consultants so I just uh listed Matt Knutson our senior consultant lead up there he's not here with us today um but they the MAC also contracts with Terracon to provide additional technical support um mostly sampling storm water inspections um and those types of things um so again folks might see some Terracon um Consultants out of the Air Lake airport working on our behalf um previously I should mention that we had a contract with Stantec so um you may have seen those folks out at the airport but now um it's a combined contract starting in 2024 so um we're fully staffed we've got a good team and um we're you know working on all of our programs throughout the entire MAC system um just kind of a visual and again a high level overview um our primary goal in the MAC environmental Affairs department is to facilitate compliance with various regulatory rules and regulations at various levels of government and oversight um primarily for MAC owned facilities and operations our secondary and also very important role is to provide guidance and oversight um to our airport tenants um partners and stakeholders working at our airports um regarding environmental regulations and best practices um now not all of these programs here apply to Air Lake specifically but throughout the system of MAC airports our team focuses on air quality um compliance and Emissions reduction goals construction project impact um work um various environmental investigations and audits uh we also Focus uh quite heavily on hazardous materials management uh fuel storage tanks um regulated material disposal all that fun stuff chemical inventories um kind of hand in hand with that pollution prevention is also a an important part of our program and we spend a lot of time working on spill planning spill response um and partnering with other tenants to ensure that we have um contingencies in place and then water quality and storm water management are also two um large areas of focus for our department um everything from the multi sector General storm water permit compliance at the relievers to larger storm water uh permitting at MSP um groundwater surface water um you know connecting with the MPCA and our local Watershed districts kind of a whole mix of things that we're involved in and lastly but not least um we also work to support the MAC sustainability goals so while sustainability is not one of our core functions we have another team at MAC um sustainability Department that's working on um those efforts and there's a lot of crossover you know between environmental Affairs and sustainability so um that keeps us busy too and um one area that we're constantly looking to grow um and improve upon so that's just kind of a high level overview of our department and then I'm going to turn it over to Grace to talk a little bit more specifically about our programs at Air Lake [29:30] Grace Olson: yeah so again I'm Grace Olson um I'm our Environmental Compliance specialist um and these are sort of a little bit well they repeat some of what Marissa said but um sort of to narrow down what our general not all but General focuses are at Air Lake um storm water management like she said um we have a permit our own permit that we manage um spill prevention with our best management practices um you'll hear me again in the next couple slides talk about the BMPs our best management practices um that's sort of like our daily weekly things monthly that we're looking at to to make sure everything is working um also for construction there's things that need to be managed like soil management um or erosion control that goes along with that um and also a resource for tenants um if there's any questions about anything environmentally um we we are a resource for them we like to I like to get out and meet everyone I'm I'm new to the airport World um so every person that I meet with the tenants is like fascinating to me um and also we do inspections um of our own facilities and of the tenants the storage tenants and Commercial tenants um a little bit deeper into the storm water storm water management at Air Lake like I mentioned um we have our own General industrial storm water um discharge permit through the MPCA for our MAC facilities um this requires quarterly sampling um to meet certain Benchmark values um which we have met for this new per or this current permit um and with that we're required to have a storm water pollution prevention plan a SWPPP plan um which we update as needed and update um when the new permit um is due and we also have a spill prevention control and countermeasure plan SPCC plan um which it gets us ready for anything that that could happen um as far as spills go um and we also again within both of these and within all of the storm water management we have our best management practices like I said we're we're looking often at um containment areas and like you'll notice that the wash pad at Air Lake has its own area so that we're not washing off into the grass um and Good Housekeeping you know as even as far as making sure that the garbage dumpsters are closed so the rain water is not getting in and dispo dispersing of that water anywhere um and also like Marissa mentioned hazardous materials proper storage and proper handling and um everything that goes along with that too and lastly a lot of um what we do um is the tenant compliance like I mentioned um you'll see me out there um doing storage tenant inspections um or commercial inspections um at all the relievers including Air Lake and um we also have a self- auditing program for our storage tenants um every year in January they'll get uh an email with a with a self- audit where they can go in and and fill out everything that that they have um which I know Marissa has done a great deal with um right be be before I started um when I got there was kind of already all set up so um that's a great thing that keeps us sort of in the loop um with all the tents and a lot you know gives them a resource with that email coming through every year if they forget oh yeah I have I had a question about this or that um it's a really great resource um along with the the document that you'll see on the screen um the quick guide that's just sort of a a general list of anything that a storage tenant might um have as far as any environmental regulations for their space um and I mentioned the storm water permit of ours before and this is also our little plug and reminder that the storm water permit is going to be renewed in 2025 but you have to reapply for it by October of this year 180 days so um that's our little plug as a reminder um that it's quite a quite a few days ahead of time that you got to apply for it so um and again we are resource um we can be uh if if I don't know it somebody in our group knows it or we know where to point you in the right direction as far as you know keeping up on the regulations and often times it can be you know a little confusing on MPCA or Watershed District or what do I need or not need um so we are we're definitely a resource for all that too so that's sort of our our main main um concentrations at Air Lake so um yeah and then any questions or do you want to add anything to that [34:26] Tom Fitzhenry: the only question I had uh I don't know if you're aware before you got there there some of us had hangars that we could pull float planes in um it's just a groundwater issue the water that sits there at Air Lake has nowhere to go it just can't get through that soil so is that something you will look at in the future or do we have questions we can ask you or you know I see some people are kind of ding digging their own French drain I'm not sure if that's appropriate but that's been happening at the airport because of the the flooding and that so just like [35:05] Marissa Trap: yeah I know that drainage is being looked at we have another consulting firm um on staff that is um kind of uh looking at how the airport drains and I know there's a few problem areas that they have on their docket to try to address this coming year but if you have specific questions or you want to reach out to us with um more details about a particular area please please do so um we've got business cards we can hand out and then we also on the screen here we have our general environmental email you're welcome to submit any questions to that um that inbox as well so I know it's an issue of concern and that there are plans to address some problem spots but I'm not familiar with your specific example about float planes so um definitely welcome more detail and connection on that if you like [36:03] Tom Fitzhenry: okay would you want us to document it uh like tell you when it happens and stuff like that uh most of us we did put gutters on recently a lot of us over there so we're pushing it away from our hangars problem is if you go an inch off that taxiway you're stuck [36:18] John Bermel: so I was going to ask if you feel like you have a good survey and understanding of the areas of the storage hangar areas that have water issues [36:26] Tom Fitzhenry: um as Mr Fitzhenry said I think it was 2-3 years ago we put gutters on our hangar and our neighbor did that really improved the amount of water that does get into the hangar this spring we had it I think happened once that uh I think the float plane thing was a joke Tom so I also don't have an aviation background so that also went over my head um and I might actually defer to Sam here too um Airport Manager for you know plans you know on on how the hangars um are retrofitted or or remodeled [37:11] Dan Wolter: would it be possible to have a link on the website for Air Lake if we have water problems we could address you and send you the pictures and all that so you get a One Source coming in yeah and I have to tell you I I am I have been made aware of historically the you know not just on the south side but on the North side yeah there there are drainage issues and uh you know some some of these things will take a little bit of time but um we have some ideas nothing firm as far as a projected project but but it it is being looked at and and talked about thank can I can I make one very practical suggestion um I think it was two years ago we had a horrendous storm my son and I drove out in the middle of it and just looked it it's one thing to hear anecdotes it's a different thing if you're uh walking Upstream on the airport so I think it'd be good for you guys to actually know that the other thing I'm curious about is uh years ago we talked about environmental impact study um is there any update on that and when I say years ago I want to say it's three years ago I heard about that for the first time it's been in the works been in the works been in the works and there a conclusion or a date certain when that's going to be finished and uh are Mr Wolter are you referring to the environmental assessment that is a prerequisite for the runway extension project [38:21] Sam Siegel: very insightful okay yeah so uh basically Ally yeah we're we're still uh going through the due diligence that is required on us by the FAA and uh we're we're trying to to work the problem and and work through those uh as you know has been briefed uh the pipeline incumbrance issues that are that are going on with the pipelines under the runway so other than that I have no no no update that you'd want to hear it's just yeah we're still working the problem [39:03] Dan Wolter: so with all of that is the whole Runway extension topic just on hold [39:07] Sam Siegel: yes yeah it's on hold until the environmental assessment is completed [39:13] Dan Wolter: and what will it take to move that along [39:16] Sam Siegel: uh really yeah we're just we're continuing to work the subordination language in those incumbrance agreements that uh that we have with the pipeline companies they need to agree to the new subordination language that's required by the FAA in order to do any sort of Improvement to that Runway [39:37] Tom Fitzhenry: would it help if we contacted uh our Senators and representatives to get them involved well I can kind of defer that question uh thank you um [39:46] Michele Ross: so again Michele Ross manager of community relations I just want to acknowledge that we understand that it has been in the works for a long time it's it's a project that the MAC has um been proposing and is still uh proposing to complete at the at the airport we are as Sam said really working our due diligence trying to make sure that we are moving things forward as quickly as we can um there are some several factors that are limiting our our our movement forward um there are um the the pieces that that need to keep going forward it's not necessarily uh any action that the that the committee has to take at this time it's just a process that will continue to move forward um [40:34] Dan Wolter: I understand your words but I don't understand the functionality of that uh is it possible to get a mediator because what I'm hearing is or my sense is I'll hear the same thing in two years that there's progress it's moving forward but there's no traction on the project [40:53] Michele Ross: so I I do acknowledge that that is we you don't have a timeline so I can't say that that it would be a month from now or six months from now or two years from now um but I I can tell you that we are doing the best that we can in order to keep moving the project forward um and that we will continue to do that and that as soon as we have additional updates we will share that with the committee [41:20] Tom Fitzhenry: are you at Liberty to explain what the impediment is [41:22] Michele Ross: no not at this time beyond what we've already shared no [41:24] Tom Fitzhenry: okay do we have any more questions thank you for that uh did you have one Adam go ahead and okay we're almost there so we'll go ahead and Adam's eager to throw it out there so we'll start with Adam on the comments [41:35] Adam Forsburg: okay um I guess you know just to track back to the EA you know I think it's been what nine months now that it's been with uh you know regarding the pipelines and I guess think what I'm what I'm picking up is that we're willing to actually you know Assist help reach out to you know people in the community potentially legislature to you know try to assist okay because you know this problem just keeps percolating along okay it's personally affecting my business the most of everybody out there um we keep getting the same answer and then Sam this isn't your fault but you know when April I went to MACOA and talked to them and you guys were there um SEH was there regarding the drainage on the on the South Side okay and SEH was supposed to come out and assured me that they would come out and discuss the project and it's now the middle of September it hasn't happened so it's over five months and somebody hasn't shown up okay and which means that this project which they were saying in April would happen this year is not going to happen this year there's not enough this year left so what keeps happening is this things keep getting pushed back pushed back pushed back and we keep being told every three months nothing new okay so it doesn't feel like um there's a lot of transparency [42:58] Michele Ross: and I can I offer one thing and for that project I think I will defer to Sam but I just wanted to offer that the path that we're taking to move forward is what we believe the best path forward to be um and that any other course of action at this time is not something that we would recommend or suggest to be uh the appropriate course forward regarding the overall environmental assessment but Sam I I think you probably have more information [43:43] Adam Forsburg: so I think we want to be more involved and I guess the reason is is that the way I see it yeah it's the MAC's airport but we're the end users the city of Lakeville is it's there I mean it supports the city of Lakeville and I think there's a little disconnect in the decision-making process and what it is that maybe the people here want versus what the MAC wants [44:03] Michele Ross: so I'll offer again see I'm sorry I keep jumping in but um I don't think that there is a the MAC does want to to see this project move forward we are doing what we what is necessary in order to move the project forward um and that is just the steps that need to be taken there is as the airport Authority it is is our role to do take these steps with the FAA there is not really a role for the city of Lakeville other than in advising the MAC and providing this feedback and that we take into consideration but again we we you know have we are doing everything we can to move the project forward we're not in in you know we're not in disagreement with the city in terms of the course of action that we're trying to take it's just that that this is the best course of action or the appropriate uh organization to move this forward [44:48] Sam Siegel: and Adam regarding that drainage that that is something I did mistakenly leave out of my report but it is out to bid right now it's still going to be done this fall [45:00] Adam Forsburg: but it I was supposed to be involved in the design process and what was supposed to happen adjacent to my parking lot and that hasn't happened so assurances I was given didn't occur [45:15] Sam Siegel: yep I definitely understand that side of things um it's just the the there are some aspects of what we had planned versus your request that just didn't meet the the budget for this year so we're not saying that can't get done in the future [45:34] Adam Forsburg: but nothing was ever communicated to me after it happens I mean this is the issue that I'm having right now is that you guys unilaterally make a decision all right say you're going to involve somebody I'm not involved and at the end of the day you decide to do something different and it's just like oh we decide to go a different way by the way this is what you're getting it's not good communication [45:55] Sam Siegel: yep I definitely understand your point of view on that [46:00] Adam Forsburg: like I said I don't think it's your fault Sam okay I feel like I've been misled by the MAC for the last two years and I'm getting frustrated I've been made promises for two years this is going to happen this is going to happen we're going to do this we're going to help you with your parking lot we're going to give you a little bit of a parking lot because we screwed up on what we assessed you or we know we told you you're going to have a Runway extension you just put a $6 million building in but oh guess what we didn't have the EA done okay and it's not your fault ma this is Sam every person in front of you has been telling us the same thing for four years so there's there's I mean the frustration is starting to happen with all of us just so you know [46:50] Dan Wolter: I guess my concern is if we're in Advisory Board why is a lack of transparency I'm still not understanding what the impediment is and tomorrow I can call Amy Klobuchar she could get involved there are State mediators if there's some type of hurdle that has to be jumped over I'm sure it's resolvable I guess this ongoing trust us trust us trust us it's being done it's just worn thin [47:22] Michele Ross: I can understand that that why again why why there's frust um we will continue to be as transparent as possible um again as the the airport Authority in in charge of of of um operating and maintaining the airport we do have to follow certain rules and regulations and processes that are dictated to us um and we will just continue to do those as best we can [48:10] Tom Fitzhenry: one last one so does that mean as board members we're not privy to the information [48:15] Michele Ross: so the role of the members of this committee are to um for us to provide to to keep monitor of what the operations are at the airport um for us to provide updates to hear back from the community and then to advise the MAC So within the the role of the of this body we have been providing the information that's appropriate [48:25] Tom Fitzhenry: okay are there any other questions or uh we finished that Adam why we're going around you want to give us your event that might be happening if it's one second on that [48:29] Adam Forsburg: okay so are members of the board allowed to attend meetings at the MAC [48:35] Michele Ross: what what type of meetings I'm sorry [48:37] Adam Forsburg: like board meetings [48:38] Michele Ross: yeah absolutely all of our public meetings are all of our board meetings are public you can attend uh in person at the at the terminal uh we have our commission meeting our full board is it meets everything third Monday and then our Planning Development and environment committee meets every first Monday of the month this coming Monday sorry the planning de Planning Development and environment committee meets this coming Monday at sorry oh the full MAC sorry I'm I apologize I'm it's I can't believe it's already middle of September uh the full MAC the full MAC board uh meets this coming Monday so that all of that is on our website um how to provide get a conquest course pass so that you can attend the meeting sure um all of that is available [49:45] Adam Forsburg: and just so you know I'm not taking the frustration out on any one individual here um but the same thing has been told to me for four years it's starting to get really really old and I'm a patient person but I think I'm coming to my limit now if I may say one thing I think Sam you've done a fantastic job I appreciate your communication and your level of commitment to the airport it shows so I want to thank you in front of your peers okay um one other issue that I know that we have to address is that um it's unknown to most people here but the Metropolitan Airport commission gave the same taxi lane names to the Lakeville airport as they did to the Lake Elmo airport and so my address actually is a taxi lane that is not recognizable by any sort of map so um I think what has to happen I was speaking to the city that's why I arrived just a little bit late I was talking to them think we need to coordinate with the city and the county and actually get an address for my FBO so we need to name the streets secondly Maynard Lane or Maynard Way whatever you called it I don't think has been recognized by the city or the county yet either so you know emergency Personnel you know people don't know where that's at so I believe a 911 locate has to be done on that so I think there some needs to be some coordination between the MAC and the city on addresses because they don't work out there okay so that's that's one issue um as far as the event um I've donated the use of my hangar to the Lakeville North Hockey and they are going to have a band out at the hangar on October 12th um the final inspection on the hangar supposed to be occurring tomorrow so keep my fingers crossed so that will be done before the event I've been coordinating with the MAC and Sam as far as making sure that you guys are aware and that we're going to make sure that we keep people off the Runway nobody's going to be crossing the runway we'll have security out there all of those items and the uh boosters will be applying for a permit to be able to host the event out there so that'll be on October 12th and it's open to the public including you guys [52:13] Dan Wolter: Dan you got anything on our July we had the best July ever as far as the flight school goes so it was okay nothing for you fantastic [52:21] Tom Fitzhenry: uh the only comment I got is been flying lately and uh Mankato State is really using our airport the issue I have is we're seeing a lot of head-to-heads uh VOR approaches on 12 with an ILS on 30 and they don't break off till a mile and you wonder if we're going to see something happened there um most of them are doing it without being with approach control they're kind of just doing it on their own so there's really not a whole lot of coordination with that but I don't know what we can do to ask him you know when the pattern's full please don't you know we're on 30 don't shoot a VOR 12 it just doesn't work out um but I don't know how to convey that but I'm just making you guys aware of that I think that's all I have John [53:18] John Bermel: uh Sam is it appropriate for you to contact the school in Mankato and talk to the chief pilot or the head instructor there and just Express Tom's concern if we have one if we have one midair in that manner [53:29] Sam Siegel: yeah definitely I can express that we've had a complaint or a concern raised um but I I would want to stay away from trying to tell them how to operate their aircraft and that sort of thing it's just uh I can I can let them know we've had a complaint [53:50] John Bermel: yeah completely understood my my thought when Tom was saying that and I've had that experience in the air is is you get you have a midair Collision someone at the trial is going to say did anyone ever contact the school to advise them it was an issue I'm just saying it might be a prudent thing to do [54:08] Sam Siegel: duly noted and it might be a best practice that we could put out you know try not to when the pattern's full try not to use opposite direction approaches or you break off at two miles something like that but when they're right into the numbers that gets a little scary [54:33] Tom Fitzhenry: okay uh John do you have anything no sir and well how about our RAC representative you want to tell us what happened [54:43] Pat Moran: sure so I'm Pat Moran I also um the representative to the Reliever Airport Advisory Committee which is affectionately known as the RAC um so we met last Tuesday and uh some good news for us Sam already shared that the U AWOS system is going to be replaced sometime in 2025 don't know exactly the timeline there but it's they looking like it um the other thing that was brought up at this meeting and for you non Aviation people airports that that don't have a tower have a common frequency that everybody talks on so we talk to each other tell us where everybody is and to avoid collisions and things like that so it's commonly known as a common traffic advisory frequency and last RAC meeting we had uh some two gentlemen came up and they had done a lot of research about uh the problem we have with the current one is shared by the same frequency shared by many airports within a short distance from here and it's causing a lot of problems safety problems and um the MAC has uh picked up this as an important thing to work on and they are working to change the frequency at the Air Lake airport to something less busy uh it's not going to be our own frequency because we there's only so many of them but potentially there the plan is to to get a frequency that's not used within 60 or more miles from here so there'll be much less traffic on the Air Lake frequency which would be a big safety thing um the gentleman that did this presentation offered up a particular number uh the FCC is the are the people that actually choose the frequency so MAC is working with them to find either use that one or something that's awfully close to the benefit uh we don't have a timeline for it at the moment um but it is an active program within the MAC because they recognize uh not only the problem at Air Lake here but Lake Elmo and some other ones that share frequencies that are very very popular with nearby airports so anyway um so that's the good news uh we already talked about the the um I think that's it thank you [57:04] Tom Fitzhenry: if you didn't know last weekend there was a fly in at New Ulm guess what frequency they're on interesting trying to get into Lakeville so Steve you got any [57:12] Steve Getter: uh the only one I had is uh along the lines of some of the traffic pattern uh discussion we've been having is the size of the traffic pattern that I've noticed uh in the last couple weeks uh we were out and I've noticed downwinds that are extended quite a distance from the center line of the airport I saw one there was a Cirrus I think it was yours at that was actually flying at their downwind leg repeatedly was 1.7 miles from the center line of the uh Runway uh and seeing it as well when there aren't a lot of airplanes flying as far as how far they're going out on uh extending a downwind before they turn a base so I think from a noise abatement standpoint as well as a safety standpoint it really is good if we follow FAA protocol keep traffic patterns tighter and uh emphasize that [58:20] Pat Moran: say again I I have I'll send it to you yes um I know I followed Pat in uh this last weekend and he flies a nice tight pattern I've been known to do that too [58:21] Steve Getter: okay I'll pass it on down to the next one [58:22] Christa Jack: I just want to say I don't understand half of what you guys are saying but right uh no um I do want to recognize um Adam for I he does donate his facility quite a to quite a few organizations the chamber included uh and so I do want to recognize him for that and doing that in fact we are working with him again on something for our schools we do a lot of work with our schools and so in January we're working with him to bring um all the eighth grade students at Lakeville middle schools out to the airport and to do a very large uh career exploration event that they will all go through as a part of um a program to have them learn about different in demand careers before they go into high school and before they register for their High School courses and we needed a big enough facility to be able to host this and have some get some heavy equipment in there and obviously will an airplane and so again um Adam is graciously donated because he he has the largest facility to be able to do some of these things uh in our community so just a shout out to him for that and thank you it's very important [59:30] Katie BM: I don't have any comments just a thank you um for all of you who serve on this committee this is the first time I've sat here obviously but really appreciate your knowledge and your passion I think it helps to improve our airport greatly so thank you for being here and doing this [59:45] Tom Fitzhenry: thank you for the nice comment um are there any announcements we missed I think we kind of got them on that so uh next meeting uh is scheduled for December 12th is that correct so when we can't uh you know say that is the meeting because we need we don't need a motion on that or can we say that is the meeting can say that is the meeting and for now it'll be held in this room okay thank you very much uh with nothing else I'll uh say we're adjourned