Cody, you ready? Yep. Good afternoon and welcome to the Monday, August 11th meeting of the Orno Town Council. Roll call shows we have councelor Andrea Hardison, councelor Sarah Mars, myself, councelor Demerit, councelor Leo Kenny, councelor Matt Powers, councelor Jacob Baker with us this evening. Councelor Lway is not going to be joining us. Um, agenda review. This is our chance to look through what's been assigned to the committees. Um, talk about um, it's a place for us to post the different action items for us and the public as reminders and to ask if there anything that needs to be added to or clarified on the agenda. And I'm going to turn it over to the town manager to see if he had anything. >> Yeah, I got one request. I'd like to have a personnel matter executive session at the very end. No action. >> Yep. Any concerns about adding that to the agenda? We need to do it unanimously. So, by consensus, yeah, just all in favor of that. Good. Yep. >> So, we'll add that to the agenda. Any other agenda items, clarifications? Nope. All right. Uh, item three on our agenda is approval of minutes from the July 28th, 2025 meeting. Uh, could I have a motion for that? >> Did we jump over on agenda review? >> We had one question on the agenda review. >> Sorry. on agenda review. Um I thought we had a question on something referred to the full council there and whether perhaps it's time to take that off. >> Oh yeah, we wanted to talk about the public safety building. Um >> and this has been appearing on the under the agenda review for throughout. do we want to um and we've taken steps to this was on the agenda when we were talking about taking a look at the public safety building as a construction in that space and it doesn't feel like we're moving towards that with the purchase of the building across the street. While there's certainly work to be done in the public safety building um and I don't want to suggest there isn't it doesn't feel like it's something that the council will take on as like a committee. Is that a fair understanding for others too? >> Yep. >> Yeah, I'm comfortable with that. >> Yeah. Are people comfortable removing that henceforth? >> So check that box, right? So not not anywhere near done, but at least for a administrative and paper paper um work perspective, we'll move that off the the referred to committee. Anything else? >> That's the only other one I saw. Thank you, D. >> Thank you. Thanks for catching that. All right. I'll take a motion on item three, approval of minutes of the July 28th, 2025 meeting. >> Moved. >> Second. >> Okay. Any discussion or clarifications or corrections? All those in favor of approval? Yeah. Yeah. Councelor Kenny's gonna abstain because he wasn't here. Andrea, are you okay? So, that was um one, two, three, four, five in favor and one abstension. And we're not going to let Rob vote next time on the in September. the next time we meet. As a matter of fact, for those who looking forward to a little free time in August, item four is public comment. Uh this is the time and um we have two opportunities for public comment that are open to anyone and everyone on anything that's not on our agenda. So if you're here to speak to something that's on our agenda, we ask that you wait and we'd certainly welcome you to join us for that discussion at that point. But if you have something that's not on our agenda you'd like to address uh with the Ordo Town Council, the people of the Ordo, and thanks to Cody, the people of the world, um please raise your hand and be recognized. No one, anyone in the world, Cody wants to take advantage of public comment. Hard to believe indeed. All right, we'll close um public comment and we'll turn to presentations and discussion items. Uh we wanted to talk about this is our last council meeting before oral festival day which is less than a month away. Um so we wanted to give an update and Matt, Andre and I have been working on that with uh with Mitch and his very very able and um competent support and want to just kind of give everybody an update and if Andrea and Matt if you're okay I'll just kind of dive into it. So Ornal Festival Day is Saturday September 6th. It's been a it's a goal. It was a goal of this council for this municipal year to reimagine reestablish the oral festival day. We've had a number of workshops uh with the community development committee that started in was it as early as April. Um we had workshops. We invited community members to come in and uh we had a really good turnout I thought for the first meeting and then it kind of it waned a little bit from there. But we've had a a dedicated group of I would say seven seven or eight attendees for our different workshops and sessions, planning sessions with the community development committee. And what we have, we've set up um online now there is a um a calendar of events. We have a uh several tentpole events that we're organizing as a committee with the help of staff and those include a pancake breakfast that council Harrison is organizing starting at 8 a.m. We're going to have a reestablishment of the pie in the sky road race and fun run. That'll be I think at 9:15 9ish and 10. We're going to have yard games um and bounce houses for kids and families over at the family dog parking lot. At noon, we have an arts and crafts event coming in the parking lot across the street. Um, and then in the afternoon, later in the afternoon, we're going to have a uh what we're calling a Black Bear Bonanza. It's kind of more of a a party type event where we'll have a a university band, the University of Maine marching band, and we'll have fireworks um on Mill Street to, you know, invite the whole community together to celebrate all that is oro and the start of the school year. So that is in a nutshell um what what we have and you'll start to see posters have been ordered on the website's up so people will see more and more of that over the next three weeks promoting the event. Um but we're really uh eager to welcome people uh back to oral festival day and I guess I would remind or warn people uh there will be fireworks over the still water. So, we'll want um people to be mindful of that because some people their pets or whatnot. I've heard it more than I thought I would, but some people don't share my love for bright bangy things. So, um, apologies to them in advance and warnings to please, you know, take appropriate >> I'm I'm going to cut in here and just, um, remind, uh, Dan that we are having a little, uh, competition between the ages also happening during the children's event. Geysers and sneakers are going to run a um not run, they're going to they're organizing a fun walk um called beat a geyser where the kids will try and walk around the pine square, you know, the downtown square and if they beat the geyser, they'll get some sort of prize, at least the first 20 of them who beat the the walking geysers. So, um please come if you're a kid and you wanna you want to show your what you're worth here in town. All right, let's beat those geysers. >> Matt, for people who don't know, can you say what the um geysers and sneakers drinking coffee group is? >> Yes. So, the geysers and sneakers um walking group meets Mondays and Fridays at I I don't remember off the top of my head at the library. Um I think at like se 8 or 9, I can't remember. And they go for a walk around town together. And then they have a sit in and they drink coffee and they talk and socialize and I go and I enjoy it too periodically and we talk about town events and it's a good place to get to know your neighbors and um everybody's welcome. Any age group is also welcome. >> And I will say that the kids should practice because one of my neighbors belongs to this group and I was walking with him the other day from home to the council chambers and I could not keep up. He trucks >> self-proclaimed geysers, right, Matt? It's not what you call them. It's actually endorsed the name. >> Yeah, we're we're all geysers like this at heart, I think. Especially if we get coffee. >> All right, great. Um, so that's the event. That's the um we're we're really excited about it. And I I got to acknowledge again um particularly through Mitch, but staff has been particularly helpful in in putting together the event, helping us arrange the event. And um am I blurry for everybody or is it just my glasses? But >> all right, doesn't matter that much, I guess. Um even though the global our global audience will just have to endure >> inv. >> Um so anyway, the staff has been particularly helpful. Um, we've done a lot of outreach to uh businesses in Orno and and other groups and and the university has been especially helpful as well. We're working with a lot of the different units, uh, enrollment, student life, athletics, um, the arts and b, you know, the band. Um, so we've gotten a lot of good support and a lot of businesses have been supportive and we'll be certain to name those and express our appreciation to them as well in terms of fundraising. So, we are asking in the consent agenda, there's an item in the consent agenda regarding probably one of the most I can't believe I didn't mention this. The um we're going to dedicate Bruce Farnsworth Way as part of the event. So, that's the the the short roadway between what used to be Margaritas and what will soon once again be Black Bear Brewing. Um so, we'll be dedicating that with a stage and event. And staff has done a good job working with the family, the Farnsworth family to put together a is a monument the right word for it. It's a monument, right? And the street sign dedicating Bruce Farnsworth Way and and Bruce's honor and memory for his long service to the community. And um so that'll be that'll be something we do as well. So in the consent agenda, there is a piece authorizing the town manager to expend I think 2500 in TIFF resources to support elements of that event that fit with the tiff me uh tiff um mission. So that's order 25194 in the consent agenda. Okay. Any questions about ornal festival day? Any >> if anyone still wants to volunteer, Dan, how do they do that? >> There's a link and I don't have it memorized, >> but it's right on the website if you go to the town website, right? You clicked on or festival day and then there's a clear link. So volunteer if you can. >> Okay, that's concludes the uh ornal festival day presentation discussion item. Next, we're up to public hearings. And our first public hearing, I'll open public hearing a um a public hearing regarding an emergency public hearing to consider amendments to the town of Orno Code of Ordinances, Chapter 20, Law Enforcement, Article 3, Disorderly Property, Clint, Do you have anything for that on this or you want me to go ahead if you want or I'll >> Okay. Similar to the last time, we the council had a public hearing the last council meeting July 28th. Um some further edits came out of that meeting. So we decided to hold a se second public hearing as well as we also want to make this an emergency order so that it'll take effect um the middle of this month >> August 18th. >> August 18th. So it was recrafted as an ordinance with an emergency order. It's all been updated and in the packet. There's both a redlinined and a clean version of the ordinance to be proposed for tonight. And look forward to hear your feedback. Yeah. >> Anyone have any comments for the public hearing? It's like a victual license. Um, okay. Hearing none. Seeing none, we'll close the public hearing on um town of oro code of ordinances chapter 20 law enforcement article 3 disorderly property and open the public hearing to consider a class 4 tavern liquor license special amusement permit for music dancing and entertainment billiard's license and vixel's license for black bear hospitality LLC DBA black bear brewing pub 19 mil street sweet or four or four street Mr. Mitch >> Mitch Stone, assistant town manager um standing in for staff um to uh um with our with our turnover of our code enforcement officer. Um we staff is recommending uh approval with this and they have done inspections and all the um the necessary paperwork has been filed. um you know uh they're working through the finishing punch list of their um uh CFO, but our former code officer has gone through and given that list and so we're quite confident everything will get taken care of. So we're recommending for approval. >> Yep. Sorry. This appears in the consent agenda as well. Y >> um so if anyone has questions, I suppose now would be a good time for any clarifying questions. Any date opening? >> We have an opening date. >> Yeah. Uh not that I know of. Um I know they're trying to open uh as quickly as possible. And that why we got it on this one because uh with no no second meeting in this month, they would have had to have been out till September. So I know they're trying to open and they're really close. Um, but I can't speak for them. Um, I did talk to them today and they were they're eager. Um, just got to get everything everything in line. So, >> will they be on I'm asking this for no one in particular, but will they be honoring spots on the waiting list for a mug for the before they closed? I mean, so if you were like literally first on the list when they closed, will you be first on the list now or do you have to go back to the beginning? uh I would have to refer you to them uh as a as a new it's a new LLC that so this is a new business that's why it's going through this process y so you might be out of luck I don't know if you're talking for a friend or for yourself but >> club members first >> all right that's what matters all right thank you very much anyone um in the public like to speak on this I assume everyone's here to speak on this public hearing No. Seeing none, anybody online, we will close the public hearing. Thank you. Thank you, Mitch. Um, number seven, acknowledgement by council members. Andrea, can we start at your end? We'll move over to Jacob. >> There's lots going on, but I have none tonight. >> Council marks >> the acknowledgements. >> Um, yeah, I just wanted to acknowledge, well, two things. Um, as we've already mentioned, I guess at the beginning of the meeting, but you know, town staff is doing a great job with papers already open for the upcoming election and for there are two council seats that are up for reelection. Um, and I believe those papers I saw on the way in, you have to pull them by September 8th. I mean, sorry, turn them in by September 8th, which is the date of our next council meeting. So, we won't be able to announce at another council meeting. Just wanted to thank staff for their organization on that. And then a big thanks to the Orno Historical Society who has started a um series of speakers. They had their first one um I'm going to get the date wrong, but maybe a month or so ago, which was really fascinating and interesting, historical reenactor up at the Orono Performing Arts Center. The next one is coming up on Tuesday, August 26th. Um there is a presentation on the saga of Cyrus Hamlin. Maybe some of you know who he is, but I don't. And it's being presented by Brian Schwarz, who is an author, and it's a Civil War history in Maine. So, um, these the first one was fascinating and just want to thank the historical society for bringing these forward to the whole community. That's all I got. >> Okay. Council Kenny, >> Council Powers, >> I'd like to um acknowledge uh the lifeguards at the pool. Thank you for all their work and doing such a good job and also for keeping people safe in the pool and outside the pool. And I want to say a special thanks to Chief Merrill for um quickly responding to issues at the pool and um keeping our lifeguards safe at the same time. All right. Thank you. >> Hey, Councelor Baker. >> Yeah. Uh staff and also members of the council who are on the um orno festival committee. Now that I'm, you know, seeing it the agenda and everything, it's you guys have put in a lot of work. So that's phenomenal. Thank you. And I'm looking forward to it. >> Excellent. Thank you for that. Um I guess I would acknowledge um I don't know if Clint will introduce later, but Earl Bonte is here with us this evening. He's our new public works director. So happy to happy to have you here and and welcome to Oro. So thank you. Thank you. Um we clap for you when you leave. I guess we just acknowledge you. We welcome you to stand up and wave, but we don't. Um yeah, sorry. All right, that ends the acknowledge. So, I hope now you're getting the stick of how these things go anyway. But, um, most of the time, number eight is a consent agenda. The consent agenda is a a block of items we move um and vote on as one single action item uh with no discussion by the town council or members of the public. Any member of the council or any member of the public could request that an item be moved off the consent agenda and be taken up as an action item. There any requests to that effect? Hearing none, I guess I would take a motion to move the consent agenda. So moved. >> Is there a second? >> Second. >> Moved and seconded. All in favor? That's unanimous. Six to zero. Thank you. Action items. Um again, anyone is welcome to how we handle these as we introduce them either by staff or council. Then we ask clarifying questions from council, open it up to members of the public, and then we have a council discussion. And then if we have our ducks in a row, we vote on it. So, um, order I'd take a motion to put order 25196 on the agenda. Order approving emergency amendments to the town of Orono code of ordinances chapter 20 law enforcement article 3 disorderly property. >> So moved. >> Seconded. Any comments or questions? >> Just just one. Um, great work went into this. Uh, I think I think it's in it's in good shape. But someone I did see and I don't know if we got an email or if I saw it on comments on Facebook, but someone was commenting you we we're doing this as an emergency basis, but their point being um I think this was someone that rented and was saying, you know, obviously this isn't really there's nothing I can do to my lease for this to be enforceable. So, we didn't is there any um what would we do? I mean, what are what are our thoughts? Do we have any thoughts on that? Because I think it's a reasonable concern for a landlord who had no no idea that this was happening and leases were well signed for most people by the time we even started our work. So, um, any consideration there from for count from council, I guess, or any maybe it's maybe it's staff has any opinion on that? >> Okay. Um, first of all, I guess we didn't we jumped right into questions and clarifying my m matters. Didn't really present this first, but um, so I apologize for that. Um we um you know, as we talked about last week or two weeks ago, you know, this was uh we had seven meetings with the good neighbor committee on this. Worked with staff and the attorney. Um had three I think four landlords if we count Jody as a land, no offense, Jody, right? But micro landlord. Um so yeah, and I know that um so that's where we are. This is what we're presenting. So I guess this is a clarifying question. Um then we'll open it up for any comment from the public. But um I I assume Clint the mitigation process is an opportunity for working I'm not going to say kids gloves are not the right but I mean there's there's discrepance there's disc you have discretionary authority within the mitigation process to work with landlords who are having trouble >> as they come forward right in terms of if they have a disorderly property or um there's opportunities there in that mitigation process to address things and >> yeah I mean staff and the Orno Police Department will be fair and consistent with how these go forward. But again, we're going to take each one under case by case because there are multiple ways to implement and factors to be considered. Um, you know, premitigation attempts. It says right in the ordinance if they're evicting, you know, there's al alternate methods and things that a landlord could do or a tenant could do to share that what they've done to fix the problem. um because it would go to the occupant and it may be a guess it was there and if they're complying with the police department and the occupant leaves you know they help in that matter I doubt we would ever go to a full citation um citations will come back to review by the manager and the chief every week if there are any and we'll look at those case by case and as far as the notice um with approval tonight if you look at the end of the agenda my manager's report it's the beginning is the out of the plan the first step it's using our ornal resident uh rental registration form to send out notices to all registered department owners, landlords, and management companies. And then let them know that we're also going to follow up with occupants um in certain neighborhoods, not all occupants in every rental, but certain neighborhoods where we know that we can make a big impact quickly. >> Thanks. I just wanted to bring it up. I think the discretion is important, but to your point uh to to their point and a valid point is that we're sending it out now. And again, we started this after leases were signed. So there's none of that none of this language is in front of the current fleet of tenants that people have. So, but I think I think the key piece is probably the discretion that's afforded to our staff. So, thank you. >> Yep. Because Yep. Good. Any you have a clarifying thing or >> Yeah. >> Okay. All right. Uh, is there anyone we already had a public hearing and no one took us up on it, but I suppose it's an action item now. Does anyone want to participate in the action item discussion? >> Yep. Seeing none, we're now in the council discussion. Councelor Marks, >> I mean, I have just um I guess some specific edits I'd like to see just sort of for clarity. I feel good about the document. I feel good about the proposal and the work staff has done. Um I might have just missed it because I was reading at the same moment when um Clint was speaking but um Clint is there or Dan or someone who served on this committee there is going to be some effort right to educate all landlords and tenants now whether or not they've signed a lease there will be information going out broadly and a lot lots of our >> going to walk us through that at the end of the day but >> yeah okay perfect so my actual question is in reading through the edits were great and I much appreciated the work on that and especially that our our town attorney it looked like chimed in with lots of suggested language. So I feel good and confident on that. Where I'm having a little bit of an issue is um when you get to the definition section we define occupant but the word occupant gets used before the definition section right in section 2052 um under scope. And I guess just for the purpose of discussion, I'm going to clarify that if you read the occupant definition, occupant is clearly defined as either a homeowner or tenant living in the building. But I think for many people when you read the scope description and you read the article shall apply to the non-resident owners and occupants of all residential property, that might sound like homeowners are exempt, which they're not. And it's been important, you know, to all of us that we're clear that this applies equally to homeowners and to tenants. So, I'm wondering if it would be possible to add a clarification after the word occupant here under scope just to say that the article shall apply to the non-resident owners and occupants, or parenthesis, whether homeowner or tenants of all residential property because the definition hasn't come yet. So I think it's I mean I I can suggest it as an amendment but kind of throughout the document I've gone through to see where some of this differential between occupant and homeowner is a little unclear including that homeowner is never defined in the definitions. All the other terms are but I understand that we probably mostly all know what a homeowner is but I think it would be helpful in the definition section to add it to the definitions specifically to clarify that it's a subcategory of occupants. you know, a homeowner is an occupant who owns the house where they reside. Um, you know, would be helpful. So, it's clear that it's a subcategory of occupants. Um, and as we go through and get to 2055, again, it says no occupant or non-resident owner. And at this point, we've defined occupant, but honestly, I would keep defining it as no occupant, homeowner or tenant or non-resident owner. Just to be clear, because we had a lot of members from the public concerned that this was targeting specific populations in town, which it really isn't. It applies equally across the board, whether you're a homeowner or a tenant or a non-resident landlord. So, I can make that amendment when we get there or whatever, but I just sort of wanted to highlight that I think it would be helpful to call that out a little bit more clearly than we have. >> So, noted. Um, okay. Any other We'll come back to that. It seems like that's something we'll talk about at the very end if we're if that's any other discussion items. >> I have just my concerns. Um, I did watch the 14 plus hours of video and well and I I was concerned at one comment, I don't want to go talk to my neighbors. We need to foster communication between residents. Um, I was also concerned with with some of the I don't want to say cavalier attitude, but some of the um responses when discussing the fines to the tenants and the landlords and and you know, letting them add up. Um, and I completely appreciate the speed at which this was put together. That's always been one of my concerns is is being fast acting. Um, but I I still disagree with there not being a warning in place, at least for this first year. There was a comment made at the last meeting that we can always revisit and amend. Um, but we have not given the landlords an opportunity to put a clause into their lease agreements. Um, and the cost to go through the eviction process. And I I agree that we need this. We need changes, but I just I'm concerned at not having a warning the first event before we just go right ahead with the fines. Okay. Um, yeah, I do think there was, you know, I'll respond to that and say that, you know, my I think the committee, we we talked a lot about urgency and creating urgency for all the parties. Um and you know we count on our community policing department and um our town manager to have discretion is you know where they my vision of this thing is you know someone's just make it up having a little too much fun and you know they people are going to show up and there's going to be a learning opportunity before we start you know um and I'm hopeful that's the way it goes. I'm hopeful that the manager and the and the police chief uh take those kinds of things into account. Um I don't want to get a reputation as someone that's um as a community that is unwelcoming to anybody. And I don't think, you know, I think we give out I think we've got um kind of the warning and the education is the most important part of this thing for me and the discussion about the fines and the escalating enforcement opportunities about getting the attention of people who aren't willing to to address persistent behavior challenges. When warnings aren't enough, it's got to get it's got to cost money to get people's attention. whether it's a a land a landlord who doesn't live in the community um who just just hasn't been hasn't been paying attention to the property or it's it's tenants who or homeowners for whatever reason are going to be um who refuse to get the message that it's just not how you behave in a in a certain part in in our town. So that was what why we came down to it for and I would I think in practice a lot of people will get warnings but um I don't know I don't know how you legislate that in terms of you know like I I guess you know the speed limit's 25 and a lot of people get warnings you know who going 32 you know or whatever they're going when they get pulled over. I did want to say too that I appreciated the education efforts that are going to go into um educating homeowners too in not leaving their home, not confronting and escalating a situation, but calling the 8664000 if it's a major emergency, 911. Um I do want to say I appreciate that that was involved in the education aspect of it. I appreciate that. Leo, >> just gonna say I I really appreciate you raising that. I And that obviously was sort of what I was just you did it much better than I just did. Um and I I guess I I would support putting something in. I don't it probably doesn't have support here. So I I think I'll lean back on the discretion that we're allowing staff. I I think is is ultimately the answer. But um I'd support a warning not warning being the first defense as well if you want to do that. I do not um I don't think that reflects the what the where the committee was. Um and I I think there will be time there are times where people will will show up and it will have been egregious enough where people you know the people that called the number and the work we need to do to get people to engage with the number. Um, oh, you know, look, Orno just gave a warning again. You know, this was something that disrupted a whole neighborhood. Um, and and nothing came, you know, nothing tangible came of it in the moment. So, that's I I would oppose that. I don't think it reflects where the committee was and I definitely want to kind of carry carry the committee's water in terms of these recommendations. But, >> can I ask a technical question? >> Sure. >> And it's about the 8664000. I had a friend in town who's taking care of her mother and 8092 or something and and like mentioned to me that uh when you I that and again I I actually put it in my alarm to try this and see but she was she thought when she called the 4,000 she only she wanted to call like and just see if she could have I mean they all know her and everything. and she wanted to call and see could someone help come down and just help me get her off the floor because she had slipped and couldn't get her up by herself. And she told me and again I haven't checked it that she called 4,000 and I don't know after 9 or after some time and it rolls over to 911 and I said oh I didn't I >> they told us not to call >> 911. Yeah. >> Is that the case? >> That that confused me. I'm like I don't know. >> No way to answer it. Yeah. Come on up, Daniel. Police Chief, I will fully admit this is not 100% my realm because they control their own phone system down there. But as I understand it, after business hours, it should actually go to a phone tree. We've talked about this before where if you call 911, there's only I don't want to get up here for too long, but there's only one place essentially um there's only so many places in Bangor that are call takers for 911 calls and for non-emergency calls. For us, that's the regional communication center that's in Bangor down by the jail. Um so if you call 4000, it just rings into their center differently. There's literally an audible tone as to how phone phone calls are received in there. The 911 phones ring differently than a non-emergency line. >> So, it might get transferred over, but I don't I can't say to you 100% that it went through to the 911 side. You will get a human eventually. >> Well, yeah. And I guess that's the >> which is the end goal. You're going to get a human eventually like we've talked about in the committee. It's a matter of whether or not you get if there were two 911 calls in the queue and then you called the non-emergency number. those two 911 calls should get priority over that other phone call. >> Right. I think in theory >> think that what I like I don't I got the sense that she called 4,000. Yeah. >> And it was 911. What's your emergency? So that wouldn't that would say what you just said didn't happen. And I don't know 100% either. So >> I can get back with you on that 100%. Um like I said, >> yeah. Well, honestly, never called after nine o'clock the 4,000 number. Yeah, >> myself if I'm being honest, >> but I could get you an answer if you wanted one definively. It could be. >> But I guess goes back to on the committee people were saying they, you know, weren't comfortable with they don't want to call 911 and now they call 4,000 if they're going to get 911. What's your emergency? And oh, well, it's no, this isn't an emergency. This is a 4,000 call. So, I guess it would be good to understand that if we're putting putting this out that you call 4,000 It'd be good to explain that after hours it might be 911 or or or if it's not supposed to be then then not have them not get a 911 response. You know what I mean? >> I do I I do I do understand what you're saying. I have to I'm in close communication often with the director and the deputy director so I can get you a better answer. >> Yeah. >> And back with even if it's through an email or something I can work with Clint to get you a definitive answer. less back to me, I guess, than what we are going to put out to tell people. I think it's important that we're accurate there. >> Okay. >> And I might just try dial 4,000 tonight and see if it works because again, I I hate I hate bringing it up based on somebody's interpretation and because 4,000 is a non-emergency, right? So, it's it's not a big deal. >> Why don't we do this? I'll call 4,000 after the meeting and find out. >> It'll sound a little less suspicious if I do it as opposed to if councelor Leo can't. Can we agree to that? >> Sure. Okay. >> I used it um after hours when there was a tree across the line, the rail line um down on button near Ponopscot Street and it was answered as a way. It did not say 911 what is your emergency? It was just kind of police. It was you know police dispatch. It was a person. I was happy to reach him but then it could have been to be completely honest. It could have been just the dispatcher that answered it. Sometimes they could go on autopilot. You're answering the phone. Sometimes it's 911. Sometimes it's um 4,000 cuz they're answering the phone too, right? So, >> yeah. And this whole thing was nonrelated to calling about a party, but it was related to a resident. She's like, I I don't even want to call there because it's not an emergency. I just want to call up here. Yep. >> And ask one of these people that all know us to come maybe give me a hand, which >> Yep. >> That makes sense. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Any other topics? And we can get back to kind of Sarah's piece was kind of technical, but >> I have two actual sort of clarifying questions also. They should have asked them maybe under clarifying, but I wasn't sure that they were that quite that simple. One is under section 2055. Um, which it looks like was edited by the attorney, but I'm not entirely sure that I understand what the second sentence means at this point in time. It says each and every day that a disorderly activity is permitted to occur on the property after it becomes classified by the chief of police shall constitute a separate offense. It used to say after it has been classified by the chief of police as a disorderly property. So I assuming that was taken out I can see by the attorney. So I'm assuming that means that they want this to apply as soon as it's gotten a notice that there was one disorderly activity. >> Right. So every subsequent event would be is a doubling of the fines. It just was confusing to me because it's unclear to me what the chief of police is classifying it as in that context since it I don't know >> yeah the chief would have to declare you know there'd be a violation a notice of violation at the scene and then the chief and the town manager would agree that it was in fact a disorderly activity and the violation would stand and then every subsequent one would be a subsequent disorderly activity subject to a doubling of the fine >> or in some cases it would be they show up and there's 10 cars so that's a disorderly activity parked illegally on the side of the road. They ask them to remove them. They don't. They stay there for 10 consecutive days. That's a separate violation every day that occurs. $300 each times 10, that's $3,000. That's how all ordinances in the town work, whether it's a dangerous property, but allows that increased fine for knowingly violating the ordinance. >> Okay. So what it means is it means after it's been classified as a disorderly activity then got it. And then likewise I was a little bit unclear on 2060B which also had some edits and I think I got a little confused with the edit so I wanted to double check that. Um >> what part on B >> on60b I understand I think the intention. I'm just trying to be clear where the penalty um discussion happens. It says, "The penalty for a party found responsible for the occurrence of a subsequent disorderly activity, and this is where it gets the words get confusing, shall be a minimum fine as outlined in section 2060 for a first violation." But we're already in a section that's talking about subsequent disorders. So, it's confusing to me. So, the penalty for a party found responsible um for the occurrence of a subsequent disorderly activity currently says shall be a minimum fine as outlined in section 2060 for a first violation with the minimum fine doubling for a second violation. Do we really need that language in between? Are you not saying the penalty for a party found responsible for a subsequent disorderly activity shall be double the minimum fine in60 for a first violation? Well, it's got to point to where the minimum fine begins, just like with the occupant thing that we talked about when we first started talking. You know, you you've got a concern there. So, I think this links back to the outline of the minimum fines and then as the doubling, which is the intent um intent of the ordinance. So, >> I spent a lot of time with it. >> Okay. You think that's clear enough? Okay, that's good. As long as everyone else to me, I was unclear. It made me think it was the minimum fine, but then no, it's not. Then it's doubled. I was like, is it doubled and the minimum? It's just supposed to say that it's doubling the minimum fine as outlined in 20. >> Three becomes six, six becomes 12. It adds up fast and hopefully no one ever gets beyond a doubling, but they're not paying attention if they do. >> Do you want to go back and talk about the whole thing? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Um, we did have I would point out um I I appreciate the point. I'd be happy to add it in the scope piece just so it's clear. Um I would point out that we wanted to make sure that um like the homeowner when they're a resident and they're engaged in the disorderly activity um is one thing and then there's another piece when the homeowner is the owner of you know a disorderly property. So like a homeowner and Clint and I we talked about this a homeowner I initially thought only a a non-resident property so you know something that's rented out to a tenant could be a disorderly property but it was it's our intent to make disorderly property apply to you know my if I if I trigger it at my house on page place I not only do I get the disorderly activity fine but I also get labeled disorderly property and then I got to meet with Dan and and you know get it all mitigated and figured out. Um so I would point out that there are points in it points in the ordinance where we talk about the non-resident owner or homeowner of a residential property. Um so that would we try and clarify who you know that it's both a landlord and a and a residential homeowner. Um where that applies. I do think we could clear you know add a under 25 5200 scope. I think we could add and occupants, you know, maybe including homeowners and tenants as defined in 20 53E. Would that work for you? >> The article shall apply to the non-resident owners and occupants. I would say whether homeowners or tenants as defined in 53. >> Okay. If that's Yeah. Whether homeowners, we haven't proposed anything yet. I'm just talking out loud. What? Whether homeowners or tenants >> as defined in 53 20 53E. >> Okay. Anything else? >> I would I would personally add a definition of homeowner in your definitions. It may seem redundant, but I think it's a chance to make clear that a homeowner is an occupant who owns their house where they reside. And for the purposes of this ordinance, homeowners are a subcategory of occupants because later there are times when you stop specifying the spellout and it just says occupants. So everywhere you can possibly highlight that homeowners are a category of occupants. I think >> well once, you know, once I once we went through the trouble of defining occupant and we just used it throughout that was kind of my that was kind of the thinking in terms of the structure. But what do you want to defi what do you want to define a homeowner as? I would honestly say a homeowner is an occupant who owns the house where they reside because it clarifies again that a homeowner is an occupant. >> All right. Do you want to put those forward as two amendments or separate amendments? >> I'm happy to do them however council wants. >> Let's take them as separate. Okay. Um, you want to do the homeowner one first? Is that okay? >> Sure. >> Okay. Shoot. Go ahead. >> Okay. So, I'm You want me to do the one with the definitions first? >> Yeah, if you would. >> Okay. So, I'm gonna uh make an amendment that we add a definition of homeowner um to our definition list, which would say homeowner is an occupant who owns the house where they reside. They are a subcategory of occupant. >> Homeowner is an >> occupant who owns the house where they reside. For the purpose of this ordinance, they are a subcategory of occupant. >> You want all that? Okay, >> I would. >> You got it. We'll go back and we can >> I just think if someone sees the word further down and goes back to look it up, they may not look up occupant, but they may look up homeowner. So, it would be helpful. >> All right. Is there a second? >> Okay. Any discussion? Okay. All those in favor? Unanimous. Okay. And will you offer your second amendment please? >> Um yes. Um so this one is under scope. Um, I would suggest an amendment so that 2052 reads, "This article shall apply to the non-resident owner and occupants uh, parenthesis whether homeowners or tenants and parentheses of all residential property as defined in section 2053 located in the town of Orno." >> Okay, you have that, Amanda. There a second. Any discussion? All those in favor? That's unanimous. Any more discussion on the overall order as amended? Could I have a motion? Oh, no. Wait. We have a motion. So, it's now been amended. So, seeing no more discussion, I guess we'll call a vote. All those in favor of order 25196 as amended. All right. Unanimous. 6 to zero. Thank you very much. I'm going to go home now so the rest of you can No, thank you very much. Um, and thanks to um all the residents and thank you Jody. Appreciate it. Thank you to all the residents who um participated and staff and and members of the council. Um order 20, we have a motion on order 25197 order expanding the good neighbor committee to include up to three student appointments recommend recommended by the University of Maine student university of Maine Student Government and University of Maine graduate student government. >> Second. >> Moved and seconded. Um, so this comes forward after we met with um, Keegan Trip, who's the president of the University of Maine Student Government, and we've had conversations last at our last meeting. I think Andrea, I think it was your maybe you that mentioned it um about having more students involved and we did at our last meeting we approved the good neighbor committee extending their work for three to four meetings um to look at the data have conversations and you know take input on how the implementation's going and um met with Keegan um right after that meeting I think the day after that meeting and we talked about how we get students involved and they offered to uh as the kind of standing body for students to bring recommend a couple names for us and then we thought Sarah and I and Clint met um at the gender setting meeting and thought we're going to do graduate if we're going to do undergraduate I think I brought it back to Sarah that um we should do the graduate student senate as well because that's a that's another body of um with legitimacy on campus representing students. So that's what we have. Good. Sorry. Where are we at? What are we do? What are we doing? >> Okay, that that was a that was a presentation. Any clarifying questions? Any any comments from the public? >> Have at it. Leo, what do you got? >> Um, do we have it that any that that these recommendations come from students that are living off campus? I' I'd like for them to be residents in in in the Orno community, not someone living in a dorm because I mean that's that's what we're talking about. So I'd like for those recommendations to be >> living in oro neighborhoods or something. >> Yeah. Renters basically, you know, the one the whole thing we're talking about. Yeah. >> Okay. Yeah, I think that makes sense. So we could amend it to that and I just pass the word on that that would be the way we'd want to go. It sounds friendly, but we'll still go through the motions of approving it. What's that? >> Do you want to um you want to offer that as amendment? Offer order expand the good neighbor committee to include up to three student appointments >> living in orno and recommended by that's probably the cleanest. >> I think you need to say living off campus because this is in Orno. So, order expanding the good neighbor committee to include up to three student appointments students living off campus in Orno. >> Yep, I got it. >> Sounds good. >> Yep. Thanks. Uh, you want to second that, Sarah? >> Second. >> Second. Any discussion on the amendment? >> The Kenny Marks amendment, we'll call it. Um, all right. All in favor of the Kenny Marks amendment. All right. That's unanimous. And any more discussion on the overall uh amended order? Okay. All those in favor of order 25197 as stay with us, Jacob. As amended, unanimous. Okay, great. >> Thank you for doing that. >> Oh, thank you. Yeah. Um, order 25198. Could we have a motion? Um, order reallocating portions of the FY2526 orno capital improvement plan with no adjustments to use of taxes, reserves, and other revenue sources um as stipulated in the agenda. Anybody okay with me not reading the whole thing? >> So moved. >> So moved. >> Second. >> Moved and seconded. Um, we have a presentation from staff on this one. I'm not doing >> Yeah. So I can lead in. Earl wants to back us up. He's done some work. What I'd like to lead in with Earl. He's had an opportunity to review these. He actually updated a lot of the memos that are attached. Um he's done additional work outside of this. It wasn't pertinent in the sense that he's gone through the 10-year plan for equipment as provided me today with a updated analysis of where he sees things headed in the future years. So, jumped right into it. Done some great work. Um on top of that, he's got maybe some other suggestions. I'll turn it over to him now and make sure the green light's on. Okay, I'm Earl Levante. I'm the new public works director and I kind of got thrown into this thing because it was already in the works, but I have to agree that these vehicles should be gone. They're unsafe. They shouldn't be on the road and they're a hazard for the employees. Um the only issue is that without them, they have no way of getting their work done. So, they have to be bubblegum and bailwired to try to get through. In the meantime, we're going to come up with a rotation plan or cycle plan to have these vehicles types into a life cycle replacement to try to get a budgetary figure so we can figure out what we need to do. And like uh Clint said, I given him a a start of a 10-year plan for these vehicles. Uh they the plan will need to be adjusted. the uh time cycles may be off a little depending on how they're used and we can work on that, but in the long run we do need to work on getting these things replaced. You have a package that explains what's wrong with them. Um I hadn't had the opportunity to get enough background to give it to you, but just looking at them, you can understand that they are the way they are. Um, >> okay. Any clarifying questions from council before we ask for public comment? Seeing none, any members of the public who want to talk about this item, these items? You come on. You know, front seat here. That's your pole position. Um, all right. Any discussion from council? >> Dan, the discussion is not just on the trucks. It's on the full order. Correct. Right. Okay. Full order. Yep. Yeah. Good. Council Baker. >> So, I'm in favor of this. Um, one because it doesn't change spending, but and two because staff has already put in work. But I I my my commentary on this is that this whole exercise that we've been going through for the past few meetings pertaining to this, it goes against one of our goals, which is to be more efficient in our decision- making. And so, um, because I wasn't, um, smart enough to figure out Dan's, you know, AI to go through the meetings, I actually rewatched all the budget meetings. I turned up the speed so we all, you know, kind of sounded like, um, you know, um, but anyways, and so we have discussed these trucks in this excavator no short of four times during the budget process. So again, I'm in favor of this. This makes sense. It's fine. I just I I would really like to see us be more efficient and once we've made a decision to stick to it instead of relitigating it. >> Okay. Any other >> Sure. I'm still I guess uh I'm still not in favor of >> slow so Jacob watches it again. Yeah. >> Um I think it seems like the first two trucks should should probably be replaced. The the the road foreman truck it says is too small for what it's needed. We're getting one similar to it. It's $8,000 tradein value. I I I just I I'd be shocked if we couldn't survive another year or two with with that truck. Then we then we've got the um environmental services. It says it's valued at $300, which just seems a little a little crazy to me for a 2014 11 year old vehicle that runs um if it if you're selling it for three 300 bucks, I'll take it. Uh and then there's the same with another there's two of them, two vehicles that work. Um and we're we're acting, you know, acting as if they're they've got to be they've got to be driven off the road. And I I I just don't I don't think it's makes sense. And I think we I think the the vehicles, you know, there are certainly vehicles that are required for doing the trucks, the plows, all that stuff. And we have we have seven pickup trucks within the within within public works. And then we have all the bigger trucks, police vehicles, obviously those are those are have to be, you know, they're required. Um but these other environmental position or even the public um uh facilities director position uh I I firmly believe they could that could receive one of the outcoming police vehicles and probably for 80 to 90% of what that job entails be totally sufficient with an with the Intrepid or what uh whatever these whatever these vehicles are. And when a truck is needed, we've got seven or eight at at public works. That's that's what I've been arguing all along. And I still think it's a legitimate um and the these vehicles just don't seem like vehicles that have to be taken off the road. The the the last three to be honest, the the the black truck, crew cab, and and the last two. Uh so it that's and at the end of the day, we we're responsible for spending money here. We've got a we've got have a governor who just is creating a task committee to figure out why property taxes are going up, which is absurd because we're the ones that are spending it. The state's not spending it. It's us and it's it's our job. So, I still don't I still am not in support of it. I'm part of one, but >> Okay. Any other discussion? >> I just have a question. Um I just wanted to clarify. I read the memo on the excavator back home memo and I just wanted to be clear. So where we stand on that is staff's recommendation right now when we on the category that says suspending that means not purchasing right now and then who knows we'll discuss again in the future whether that is a future purchase or not. The memo it sounded to me like we currently rent an excavator and so I'm assuming that's what we'll continue to do is to rent in the meantime. I just wanted some clarity there. >> Yep. The discussion has been whether we should stop renting an excavator and replace a backhoe with an excavator. Um we are asking that was the decision in the capital plan. Staff has come forward and said no we would prefer you to delay that decision and this is the better better approach for one more year and we'll continue to look at the excavator backo rental arrangement. >> Thank you. >> The backho >> and yes if we did do it we would do disposing of the backo. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Can I I guess off off the trucks. Can I can I ask about the the Margin Street drainage? We're putting $196,000 towards that. Uh what's that? It's $196,000 increase to it if you read all the background in the history. So we're adding 196 more because I believe it was >> Yeah, I know. The >> Yeah. For a total of 306 we want set aside. >> Yeah. >> Yep. So, can can I ask what's what is I I see Oliver Associates has a has a plan there. What is it 31? Is it the resident that that runs by? Is that what's driving that that whole conversation? Is that the issue? Is it because it's it alluded to a little bit that something that water may be going towards that house? But I I I'm I'm just curious what is ultimately driving this need for complete re-engineering of a drainage ditch that's been in existence for 40 years or 50 years. >> My I'm not aware of a resident issue. >> Okay. >> And I know Earl, if you know more than this, but I've met with the staff for the past couple of months as we work for this. My understanding is is Margin Street as a road needs to be reconstructed because of its how it's deteriorated. If we're going to do it, this is the right time to be replacing the drainage and replacing Calverts. As far as why they're moving that actual one ditch, I'm not qualified to answer that. I'd have to bring in the other staff that was working with them or speak more with Oliver, but I'm not aware of a resident request that came in to do this. I'm not. But that doesn't mean there isn't one either, but I'm not aware of one. >> Okay. Is there any additional discussion? Yep. All those in favor of order 25198. That is five in favor. All those opposed. Council Kenny is opposed. Okay. Thank you. Uh take a motion to put order 25199 on the table. Order authorizing the town manager to purchase one 2025 Ford Police Interceptor utility hybrid from Cork Auto Group for the police department in the amount of $52,20 plus up to $16,424 paid to Island Tech Services Group for equipment purchases and set up to be drawn from the approved FY26 capital equipment budget. Can I have a motion? Motion >> moved. >> Moved and seconded. >> Chief Merrell. Dan Merrell, please chief. Yes. So, uh, as was in the capital plan, um, the last council meeting, we approved the lease of the cruiser that's going to go to the captain. This one's going to be a cruiser that I'm going to source from Cork Auto Group in Augusta. This will be a frontline car, um, hybrid like we've been buying, um, and the equipment necessary to put in the car. So, everything's on budget. Full transparency. My mistake with the agenda, the amount that's actually on there, $52,000 is good news. Higher than what the car is actually going to cost. If you look at the actual sheet here, it says 47,42421. That's the actual sale price of the car. So, that was on me when we were setting the agenda. I forgot to clarify that that's actually what the dealership's going to sell the car to us for. So, good news. We'll save over $4,000. Clint, do you want to change that or do you want us to amend the order? >> I mean, it's up to. It's up to. So, I just wanted to let I just wanted to put it out there. Everything else is fine. It's just >> says in the amount of >> Yes. >> You want to say just up to >> Okay, we can do that when we get to it. Okay. >> Okay. Any um clarifying questions from council before I ask the public for comment? >> Are are we also leasing another one? >> Yes. In the previous council meeting, we uh approved leasing one for the captain's car. >> Thanks. >> Thank you. All right. Any public comment? Our worldwide audience? Not weighing on this one either. Okay. Any further discussion on this one? And we'll do an amendment as needed. Okay. I will amend ask for an amendment that it um be up to $52,20. >> Second. >> Moved and seconded. Any discussion of the amendment? All those in favor of Dan's amendment, Dan and the Demerit Marks amendment. That's unanimous. Okay. And um and then uh we ask for council approval on order 2519 as amended. All those in favor? Thank you. That's unanimous. Usually when it's a pause like that, it's a joke I'm holding, sitting on, and not, you know, I'm hearing it in my head and I'm like, "Yeah, okay. Well, all right. >> Thank you. Appreciate it. >> Appreciate the appreciate the pause. Sometimes they don't all come out. All right. Order 25200. Order directing the town manager to work with the town attorney to develop for council's future consideration a gift agreement with the church of uni universal fellowship in the amount of $5,000 exclusively for the preservation of its historically significant steeple and continued community use of the facility that further prohibits the use of funds for any religious activity, programming, or iconography. Is there a motion? Second. >> Moved and seconded, I think. Oh, yeah. I >> was going to say I'm going to recuse myself again from this discussion and vote. >> Yep. Thank you, Council Marks. Um, so Clint, we talked about this before. We'd asked the um we decided in our council leadership meeting with Clint and I in discussion that it made sense to um with the complexity around uh gifts to religious organizations even considering those it made sense to have an agreement in place that would made sure that we made the decision. Well, this is not to so it would be it would be a two-step. The vision would be if council proceed, this is not to suggest the council will do it, but if council does it, this order suggests that we first have a a legal agreement, a gift agreement in place developed by the town attorney. Um, since developing this, we got a quote back from Roger Yuber um, in the amount of $500 to develop a gift a gift agreement. Um, so I wanted to put that on the table um, and then open the discussion. I guess we'll um with that in place, there's any clarifying questions, happy to address it, but then we open it up for public comment and and this may be the one time we get some public comment. >> No, public comments first, then we talk about >> we do clarifying questions first, then we take public comment and then we have council discussion and then potential action or whatever the council chooses to do. Okay. Is there any public comment? No, I was wrong the first time. No. Go ahead, David. Thank you for joining us. >> I'm Dave Griffin uh representing um as one of the members of the Church of Universal Fellowship representing the folks that are here tonight. Um there were a couple questions that were asked at our last council meeting and uh just wanted to confirm that with that information u uh that we gathered. We've we've um emailed it all to you folks and it was a question from uh councelor Baker I believe about um how many uh activities the committee or the community has had that was hosted by church of universal fellowship. Um and then um there was a little little bit more clarification on some of the history uh that we also provided to you. And then the other thing that we thought we would um just mention is there was a article in the Bangor Daily News and Ireina was quoted in that u uh in that article and Ireina was be willing to just kind of give a little clarification uh of that comment. >> That'd be helpful. Thank you. My name is Irana van Hoffman and I am a member of the the SOS committee and also the president of the uh trustees for the uh for our church. And uh the quote is not exactly what I had said when they asked me about it. I just said it would be more difficult if the uh council would not provide us with the money. But I said I thought would we be able to raise it? It would take longer and we might have to take money out of our investment funds to cover the cost and then recoup it over a period of time. Are there any questions? >> No. So that um thank you. That was something that caught my eye in the in the reporting in terms of um it sounded like the um yeah, you could read it as saying, well, you know, it's Yeah, it was not necessarily the town funds um being critical to the project or not. And I that's I just wanted to I appreciate you coming in to clarify that. So, >> Sure. >> Y Okay. Any other public comment? Thank you. and thank you for the engagement with the council on this over the last several well this has been a four weeks now we had a for members of the public this has been a um an item that was presented as a uh public presentation item the was it public comment David or was it a did we have a standout public comment right yep and then we had a discussion item on it last time two weeks ago and now we're before um with an order so any more public comment okay council discussion Council Kenny. >> Yeah, I I had missed the last meeting, but I want to maybe just go ahead. I I appreciate all of you being here and and all the work that's that's going into this. Uh I had shared this with the council prior and I just want to kind of read No, nobody read it. I think Rob mentioned it a little bit, but so I'll just read. While I appreciate uh the work that the church is doing to maintain the steeple in the clock, it has been a landmark in Orno. I grew up here. It's been a landmark for many years. I fully appreciate that. Um, I could not vote to support using taxpayer funds to support the maintenance of a privately owned property. Um, and I I did because when I think when David came, he talked about it being historically registered or something. So I and I don't know if this was the right I I looked up historical register and I did not find the church on it. Um, so that may not have been the all-inclusive thing that I found. Um, I did find that from Main Street, uh, on Maplewood to Pine Street is recognized as the historic district. So, you know, with that being the case, you know, I think if council were to approve this for this private land property owner, I'm not sure what would prohibit us, why would we not approve it when when other people in that same from Maplewood to to Pine Street. I have a property there that certainly could use more than 5,000. Uh but why would we not, you know, award that to anybody that came forward? And I think it I think it sets a a bad precedence. There are actually a few um on Main Street. I think it's 114 and 120 are registered um with u in that in the database that I found. So again, I just I I have a real concern about using taxpayers dollars. I'll go back to what I just said a few minutes ago. We've got a a governor who's putting together a committee to say, "Why are property taxes?" And we can we can look at this and say, "Well, it's only $5,000. That's $2,150 a house." But you could also have that resident that comes in and says, "I I pay $4,500. You're you're using all of my tax dollars for a private request." And I think I think that's a dangerous precedent for us to to be in. So, just want to be honest and straightforward with with all of you. I really appreciate it. and I've looked at it and you know you can see it's leaning back and you can it would be really nice spruced up. So I totally support your efforts. I just don't think it's an appropriate use of tax dollars. So I I I would not be in voting in support of asking you know then it's another $500 to ask attorney how we do this. I I think we I'm I'm not in support of either of those. So I just want to share that and be straightforward. So thank you. >> Hard news. Well delivered, Leo. Thank you, Council Baker. >> Yeah, I mean I I am also with Leo for different reasons and and I had emailed Connie and Ed who are neighbors um on this and I mean the church I'm fully supportive of the church and I love the fact that it is almost a third space of the town and the amount of activities you you um do there. Um, so in my mind it's it's less of a question of public versus private. I guess my um my concern and why I'm ultimately not going to be in support of this um is that we just went through a budget um cycle where we asked, you know, staff to come up with $160,000 in cuts out of our cap out of the capital budget. We asked um them to cut I believe three we asked them to cut a percentage out of the operating budget that they had originally presented. So um I think it it is somewhat disingenuous to ask you know them not to move forward with buying you know what they initially wanted to then you know provide $5,000 for this. I I just I I yeah so anyways for that again appreciate the church but I'm going to be with I'm going to not support this as well. I have a slightly different view and one is um the priorities that this council has had for um since ever I joined it um was partly to um bring the community together to show that this particular government both listens and also um um wants to provide opportunities and spaces for our our town to get together because if you're in isolation then your voice won't be heard. And um I find this um particular community to be one that um shares those values in the sense that they bring forth many many many many um community events at the church that would not go. And if we tried to replicate those as a town council or as a town, um then we we would be spending huge amounts of of capital and money. Obviously, if that's not um what our council like what we think is the priority, then um then I I understand that. vote. I'm I'm voting it partly because of of wanting to um support community um spaces and community people and people who bring the community together and have people bump into each other. But I also, you know, I don't fault people for having different viewpoints on this at all. It's um not it's not um I it's a hard one because I do not support um I I would feel I I am strictly against supporting the any ideology. This is just strictly to have the building as a used place for the community. So that's how I support it as um a place to have this building go. and also that there was um this clock has gone back all the way over a hundred years and has been supported by the town in the past. So, I'm fine with that. >> Thanks, Matt. Andrea, do you have anything? >> Um, I've been back and forth on this and I think I still am because I agree with Leo and Jacob. We just went through the budget process working with people in town when recognizing needs and wants and but at the same time I like to see the community brought together and I like to see the preservation of ORO and how it is now and what it's been. Um so I'm still back and forth. I appreciate what the work is, but I'm also struggling with the use of taxpayer dollars. >> All right. So, reality check time. Looks like at most we could have three counselors supporting, two opposing at this meeting at this time. And I believe our quorum is four to get to pass something. And I don't think we've ever been in my time as chair certainly we haven't been in a position where we would have less than four votes to move something. Clint speak. >> Yeah, >> Sarah, you could weigh in on this if you wanted to, right? >> Yeah, >> I do. Can I Can I ask I guess can we ask questions of each other? >> Yeah. >> I'm I'm curious, Matt. I I watched where you you did you chose not to abstain or dismiss yourself because you hadn't you are a member but you haven't been there. >> It's I may be a member. I don't know, but I haven't participated in um since before the co >> um and I don't know if it's Robert's rules or what it is, but isn't it's don't you ab abstain or um when there is a conflict or a potential perception of conflict? Is that is that how that's kind of worded? >> Defined by Yeah. Go ahead, sir. Yeah, >> Clint, you could look up the exact ordinance on that. Leo, last I knew the actual law is about abstaining if you have a financial interest actually. And beyond that, it's it's discretion to abstain if you think there's a perception of conflict. But someone should look up the exact ordinance while I'm looking up the other one. I have not donated to the church in for a very very very long time at least since co but if you want to go there I could ask in the future that you don't um vote on anything that has to do with um rental properties. Yeah, I'd rather we not go there with each other if we can avoid it and just kind of to the discretion of counselors, but um I'm hopeful that's the way we can do this today. It doesn't we've been very collegial and I'd rather not get into >> I know that >> they're looking it up but in the MMA course I took because of my relationship with Deputy Chief Hardison um there was a distinction between having a direct financial interest and recusing yourself from discussion and voting um not having a direct financial interest um but abstaining from voting and no financial interest at So participating fully >> correct. That's what I'm familiar with. And there's a couple different references in local ordinance. Um there's nothing that I can see where where it's getting into the situation defining whether you do or don't have a conflict. Um it comes back to you can see in somewhere it says that if you do have a financial gain, you cannot approve a contract. So that's one of those but it's a contract and you do have a financial gain. I would consider that to be same as state law, which is a personal financial gain, meaning you're the contractor or an employee of that company that receives a paycheck from. >> And I found where we can technically take a vote as to whether somebody has a conflict of interest. That's not something I'm willing to go down and do, but just doing the ordinance. >> All right, someone needs to race me because I still haven't found the exact quote. The quorum is clearly defined, but I'm not finding. Have you found it, Clint? I'm racing. >> Council rules for present voting. Otherwise, on the quorum rules, it's the majority of those present is what I would say. It's a majority of those voting. >> Once we have a quorum to conduct a meeting, it is a majority of who is part of that quorum. And five is a quorum. >> All right. So, there's we have five just being we have a quorum. I would at most at this point um move to table this until the church has taken more time with its fundraising to see where they come back. And I would I I understand the concerns of people who uh about taxpayer dollars for any private entity. I don't I don't want to go back and hold myself to a clear accounting to that and the decisions I've made on this as a counselor so far. Um but I would say that my preference is to be the giver of last resort. Um if to be a giver at all. So I would move to table this until such point um and ask that the that the community that the church of uni universal fellowship keep us apprised. I don't know that um that means you'll have a majority vote when that time comes because I think a couple counselors haven't voiced that. Um I'm not I'm not ready to support it. Um, I'd be more inclined to support it if it was a difference between the project getting done and not getting done. Um, I'd like to see see that pro that fundraising process work itself out before ORO contributes its its $5,000. And I I know that's not what everyone wants to hear, but I feel like that would be the more appropriate way to to proceed. So, unless there's anybody else, I'm going to move we table this. And um, but I need a second, so I'll second it. >> Okay. Moved and seconded. Any discussion on the tableabling motion? All those in favor of tableabling? One, two, three, four. And those opposed to tableabling, Matthew Powers is opposed. You're a good man, Matthew Powers. All right, so that's tabled. Thank you for your engagement on this. And please keep us surprised of how the fundraising is going. What's that? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks, David. Is it permissible to to add >> few comments? U we appreciate you guys have uh looked at this professionally and we appreciate all the discussion about this. Um we're very patient. Uh we are continuing our fundraising um activities. In fact, in the Arno Observer, the next issue of the Arno Observer, there is going to be an ad there uh that uh specifically um asks for the community help in um uh in our fundraising efforts. And as you already know, uh we're going to be participating in festival days here in September. Uh so there's a lot of other activities that we're we're um undertaking. And you know uh the church um has uh some very generous but also a small congregation and uh that's what we're facing is it's a small congregation uh which is typical of churches uh here in America. Um and um we're just needing some help as we um undertake this this u major capital expense. So thanks for your time and thank you for your consideration. >> Thank you. Okay. Um, so that's been tabled and it will be an item we could bring back off the table at some future point. Uh, order 25, welcome back to the meeting, council march. >> Thank you. >> Order 25201, order authorizing the town manager to execute a side agreement with MAP. >> Can I have a motion? >> Second. >> Moved and seconded. Uh, town manager. >> Yeah. So, a pilot program was participated in the past year. um it's worked fairly well results in some uh additional training. And what happens is is though there's an opportunity for them to gain extra time and to come in. So if we could reward that with a compensatory bank, um it would be helpful to them. Um we did outline that this would be only for the remainder of the term of this contract so we can continue to get a feel. Um but again, last year they did it and they operated it through overtime costs. um it did exceed what was affordable and to sustain in the long term but as a compromise they came forward with this solution and said what if we did a comp bank on it this would again limit the amount of hours they could build up but also gets a lot of good training for staff in an area that is helpful and in a time frame that's easier than working within their schedules. So um I'm supportive of this side agreement. Um, I've met with Chase Hos as the president of the union as well as the police chief. Um, and we're recommending this for again through the term of the remainder of the contract. Okay. Any clarifying questions? Any public comment? Any discussion? All those in favor? That's unanimous. Thank you. Order 25202. order leaving the state of Maine paid family medical leave program for contracted guardian paid family medical leave program through Aadia Benefits Incorporated. >> So we have a motion. >> So moved. >> Second. >> Moved and seconded. Clint, are you going to present this one too? Please do the agendas as you go. Um so paid family medical leave something staff was researching. Um it took effect this January. Um it's a situation where we have to pay in towards a bank for this new program. The state is this is the first year we pay in. It does not start till April of next year 2026, but they're building up a bank at the state level. So, we opted to stay in the um non-contractual model. Um we've been approached more recently about leaving that model because you can contract with a third party vendor and what you do is you pay them. So what we brought forward to you is is a agent has quoted multiple different sources and we went with the low quote of them all and instead of a dollar basically the way it works 1% um it would be at an 80% contribution and that's currently half town half employee is what the is the way we're splitting it and we would continue to split that cost is what we're proposing and then saving money for both the employee and the town. This is a big unknown. We don't know what's going to happen. There's a lot of conjecture, but this allows us for the next three years to be at cheaper than the the 1% rate. We would be at the point 8% rate. Um, I did have a chance to talk to Lori Buchard and she is recommending in her professional opinion to look into a third party program so that you're out of the state program. Um, we're not 100% sure what will happen to the money we paid in, but even without that, this is a cheaper model. Um, we believe it's held in the bank at this for this town in future use, but we may have to pay to opt back in. Again, a lot of these rules were written quickly and they're still learning how to implement them. Um, they're hiring staff as we speak to oversee this program in a year. Um, overall, the recommendation on staff committee, finance committee reviewed it and said, what does staff recommend? I think we feel that a third party will have more experience and be more beneficial to our employees to make sure that these cases are heard clearly and consistently and handling it for us similar to what workers comp has done that we'd have an outside vendor looking at these. Um but again, we're not certain. So that's why we're presenting it here to the council. This is a costsaver to both the town and the employee. So, it doesn't meet any of the spending thresholds, but it is a contract for service that when you look at the8% cost on our payroll would exceed any spending limits I'm authorized to do. >> Okay. Any clarifying questions? >> No, but I am going to say that I'm going to abstain voting on this one um just because of where it affects the employees. >> Okay. Um, any public comment? Any other council discussion? All those in favor except for Andrea. >> Can I have one? This is a very tiny thing and I'm sorry to be but I just I was confused when I read this and I was in the finance committee meeting but just because it's got the word leave so many times in it and then it says leaving something for I I read that as like we're leaving this program which has a purpose of could we just change this language to say leaving the state of Maine paid family medical leave program and instead contracting with guardian paid family medical leave. That is what it says, right? We are going to leave the state program to contract with Guardi. Okay. I'd feel more comfortable. I'm going to make that amendment suggestion. >> Okay. Give us a second. Make sure no one else if you would. Any other discussion before we take on Sarah's amendment? Okay. Could you reread the amendment, please? >> I would say order leaving the state of Maine paid family medical leave program and instead contracting with guardian paid family medical leave program through Aadia Benefits, Inc.. >> You have that, Amanda? >> Yeah. Google. >> What's that? >> I got it. >> Yeah. >> How do you get it so fast? >> Just All right. You're better than me. Um All right. Uh so that's a move from Sarah. I'll second that. And any discussion on Sarah's amendment? Okay. All those in favor? Okay. That's five to zero of all voting with one abstension. Okay. And any further discussion on the amended order? All those in favor of order 25202 as amended. That's five voting in favor with one abstaining. Okay, nice work. Council, that's all the action we have. So, council committee reports um community development committee. We're we had a very quick and brief meeting about um how we were going to conduct the or no stops program in terms of looking at data and also how to move forward with that. And we will continue that work going into the future as to a structured um way of looking at any initiative that we put forth, how that actually um um produces or does not produce results within the town. So, we're trying to come up with a a framework for that. And then we're also in the middle of the Orno Fest, which we've just heard about. So, that's all for now. >> And that's a lot. >> It was fun to see Dan out with his huge measuring um tape. Thanks for doing that. >> I know how far I know how wide Bruce Farnsworth Way is at the at the exact intersection of Mil Street and 10 feet into Mil Street. So, >> make a great use of >> I'm not I'm not the detail guy, but >> we need a stage. I was Yeah, Mitch was there, you know. So, um All right, Jacob, anything from finance and operations? >> Uh yeah, so we discussed today um that Clinton team are going to develop an RFP for our workers comp plan. Um more to come on that uh once he they had that developed. Uh we also started discussing or not started continue discussing uh spending thresholds and hope to have a framework for finance committee um with actual thresholds to discuss next month. And then finally uh we are moving finance committee moving forward to 3:45 instead of 4. that will allow us a full hour of meeting. Um because as it is now, we have to leave 15 minutes early so that um we can get ready for or can be gotten ready for for the council meeting. So anyway, that's what we got. >> Okay. Thank you, Nissap. >> Um we are continuing to work on the council policy and procedures manual. We're making some good progress. We're not quite halfway through on our but we're getting close. So feeling good. Yep. Uh Rob's not here for ordinance review. Leo, do you have anything? >> No. >> Yep. >> Nope, I do not. Deib Matt, >> we um had a retreat on Thursday to start the framework of um giving reports to the town council uh and to the town manager this coming October about what we did last year and then the work plan going into the future. and our first meeting official meeting will be um the 2nd of September. >> Okay. I am the liazison to the comprehensive plan committee. Um so the the committee had a future land use workshop at the end of July about 30 people attended. There was pizza and salad and people provided feedback on the future the draft future land use map with um which designates areas where we want to encourage and discourage growth and development. The committee is now wrapping up their crafting of the recommendations of the plan in terms of goals and we anticipate a vote to make a draft of the overall comprehensive plan recommendations. All chapters and recommendations public in early September that would put us on track for potential um council consideration including a public hearing consideration in November. Then um council chairs update. I have a couple I think my items are more um I I still haven't planned that paddling thing yet. So I you know I hope to get to it and send it out. I got to visit back with the um the paddlers group and see what Thursdays they still have open and I apologize that I haven't but it's been it's been I had to track down the naked five for ornal festival day and that took me some time. So, they're coming, but we just got to decide when. You get to be the E if you want because one one of the >> the E is not flattering. Do you want to be the I? Um, okay. Let's move to the town manager report and then I have a few things um under items or concerns, but I'll I'll bring those up when we get to those. Okay, Clint. >> Thank you. Well, I'll just say on the fun side, it's nice to see we're all busy. Um it is a lot and it there are things at time times we just don't meet our schedule. So it does happen and we're dealing with that on a regular basis. Um as far as the manager report the first one I wanted to share a little bit on the assess tax assessments and tax commitment. Um looks like we're on pace for August 22nd to have everything done so that commitment can begin. So we'll be committing on or about that date. Um we working with the tax collector. Um, this will be the first year also to update you that the tax collector is going to be um through the town clerk's office. That was a change that's been included in this year's budget. But again, since the deputy tax collector's report to the town clerk, we're going to make the town clerk the tax collector, but we're doing that at commitment um because we don't want to have to recommit prior taxes to a different tax collector. That we've been through enough of those. Um in addition to that, there are some things going on with this year's um valuations are pretty much on pace of the past. He's not recommending an adjustment. the assessor um to market values. That being said, um since the reval, which was coincidentally the exact same time of co the real estate market, as some of you may be aware, has been growing. There's been increased co values of properties on a continual basis. It's starting to show in our assessed values. Um we're trying to make adjustments, but again, as you make adjustments, you got to make sure that they're equitable. So the assessor is working very closely to make sure that he doesn't lose equity. For that reason, he's not recommending any adjustments to this year's valuations and leave them as they are. As such, that will mean he'll be certifying at 90%. That's completely acceptable in the state of Maine to be at a certified 90% ratio. It will affect to some small degree homestead and and uh veterans exemptions, but again the net effect because the mill rate will change does not mean people will see an increase in their tax bills, but it is something that will show up because we have to certify that ratio. That's his recommendation for this year and I've also asked him to begin his planning towards next year. So, we're starting to look at that. But again, that's one of those situations you have to um you don't know till you're at this point and that's why it's hard with some of the predictions he's doing. Um but again he has to follow state law on the valuations as he sets them and the key word is equity. You have to maintain equity. So as long as we can we can be off as long as we're off equally to all neighbors and other business owners. Um again not a normal in the state of Maine to be at a certified ratio of 90%. >> Can you just clarify for I think it's the first time I've heard it talked about what is the certified ratio and what certified ratio were we at last year? 100% was the certified ratio last year. He had to do a 10% adjustment to maintain it. This year he's going to be at 90% and he's not recommending another 10% adjustment in backtoback years. So that's why he's saying that don't increase the values. Let's leave them where they are. The net effect is is that the values will be staying the same and that it just have a minor minor impact on some of the reimbursements, but that's only if their individual value were to have grown. So again, we're in a situation where it's going to be so unique to each tax to property owner. They really need to speak with the assessor to understand what happened to their property tax bills and why if they see a change. And that's normal to any year. That's how we ask any resident. If you see a change in your tax bill and you have questions, come in and set an appointment. We'll go over it with you. >> So what would the 90% mean? >> Means that we're certifying that we're 90% of 100% of full value. We could do a 10% increase and be at 100%. Or you could say we're staying where we are at the current values and certifying at 90. >> So we've got a valuation a total valuation of uh whatever or whatever 90,000 is what we're saying on the books even though we really believe the total value is 100,000 because of appreciation. >> Yes. If it's certifi and again not not saying why we're saying we're certifying at 90 and we don't know why. What does the term certify mean in this case? >> It's what the assessor certifies the property tax assessment at. He sets the value of the tax and he's certifying that we're at 90%. Not at 100. In order to achieve 100, you would have had to do a 10% bump. >> What is what is the like what is the limit? Could could you certify at 70% or 80%? >> Those where you start there's thresholds where it becomes much more problematic and they can force you on a reval. So that's why we're to stay out of it. We're going to look at it much more closely for the next year. >> This and again right now with the change due to co and the values and what we're seeing. I mean go look at what houses are list for then comparing to our assessed values, right? >> Um I I'll speak personally. I'm also a as a resident. I'm also hoping to buy here. >> It is consistently our values are consistently lower than the actual sale price or listed values of real estate in the town. that and that's where other towns are when they certify at 100 they're saying that sales to to uh value is close to 100%. So then does the state look at that and say your if your valuation is a billion what I don't know what it is but divide by the 0.9 so the valuate that actually for the state puts our valuation up I assume so we can't hide that 10% from >> the state will review based upon us setting it certified ratio but each year the state sets a town value based upon their own calculations and we compare to that but that is their calculation I will say that if you get below and I believe it's a 70% threshold, that's where things get very egregious. >> They don't like that. >> They don't want you certifying at 70% or lower. That gets you in trouble. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> As another way of explaining, um, like if you're house is assessed at 400,000, your tax bill is going to be on 90% of that rather than the 100%. And I've seen towns as low as 80, but that's about as low as I've seen. >> Um, Discover the Main Outdoors. We just got noticed today through Cody's office that they were working on the first uh version of the video. U we did the recordings here came out really well from everything that we were participating in. That content again will be available for our website. But we're excited to be and that airs September 4th, I think it is. It's just before the Orno fall festival day, so we're excited by that as well. Um um first year observations and second year kickoff to goal setting. Um as we're coming into the end of the year, it's been a great year. Uh learned an awful lot about the balancing. Next year is going to be even more challenging is kind of what I wanted to share with the council. The challenge is is now I've got a year's experience and I've got to make sure it fits in with that. Last year was a little bit of a guessing game. So there was a margin of error. So, I guess you could also say the honeymoon's officially over. But I think as we work with a council, I think there's a lot to understand with each other. What can we accomplish? Where do we get sidetracked? Why are those sidetracks there? What are the things that we should we start expecting some of that? How do we build in capacity for the things we don't foresee? Um, so that's kind of how I'm approaching the next year and I wanted to make sure that was shared. I mean, as I approached the first year, I made a comment then that I wanted to listen and learn. I think that's some of the things I've heard that I've seen and now I'm wondering how how to adapt those. So that's how as I work into this. Excited to see the 360s come back. Maybe those will influence your goals. Um and as we do that that will influence how the staff makes decisions. Um hopefully it's not a reset of goals on an annual basis that it's a constant growth and slight change because major redirections um are much harder and take more time to implement. about uh I'm not going to review the memo, but I've attached a full memo on the current implementation and education plans for the new disorderly property ordinance. A lot of the questions you had tonight centered around that. It is a threeish page document outlining everything based upon the areas and the categories of the report that came out from the committee. Um, primarily we're going to start reaching out to all the landlords now, notifying them of the new ordinance language and changes. We're working on a palm card maybe or in a flyer maybe. Um, I like the palm card because it matches orno stops. But I do highly recommend you read the meenmo. It talks about how we're bringing out orno engage and orno engage is our new way of citizen reporting. But we wanted to start branding some of the things we do. Um, the disorderly ordinance is an orno stops initiative. or no stops was initially a transportation initiative. We're now kind of morphing it into or growing it into an initiative of of the police department on citizen education and campaigns. Um so Orno stops is their branding name on that and that's how we want to keep them moving forward. Um but take a look see what you think. >> And um one point on that is do you think the um the orno.org's org's report which is the truncated URL for the report of concern which is part of the orno engage um I think it would be I think it would be helpful for that to go out to um tenants as well when that kind of communication and I'd be happy to send a note in but >> I think >> the oro the website piece >> yeah the website piece yep I think people aren't aware of it and I think the town has a role um certainly has a role in in addressing concerns of tenants as as well as yep, >> you know, all residents. >> I like that. Good suggestion. >> Thank you. >> Um, so good there. Coen Road lighting, it's been slightly delayed. Uh, unrelated to the project. Uh, Versent wants to upgrade a transformer on the property. So, with that upgraded transformer, we're waiting on um the contractor there to know that's been installed so the remainder of the work can be finished on the lighting. Again, not related to the project, but it is a slight delay. Um, our engineering firm did great to notify us as soon as it was identified. Um, hopefully it's been of minimal impact to the tenants, but I don't know if it's been in any because that was not sh and the homeowners received. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Don't have that level of information. They're going to replace a transform. I'm assuming it's a minimal. They will reach out. I can ask I'll ask and if we have more information, I'll share that. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Thanks. All right. >> Transformer. Okay. and >> Webster neighborhood infrastructure improvements. >> So, it's been going well. We've had a few things that we've dealt up there, but they're coming close to project end. One piece of information most importantly is when they finish at the end of this year, they are not putting the top coat of pavement down. We are letting everything sit a year and we'll be coming back years for next top coat. So, for the neighborhood people that are looking at that and think we're done and never coming back. No, we're done. We'll be back next year. Um, as far as some of the surprises, uh, not to be too tongue and cheek, but again, 104 year old, um, pipes haven't always been exactly where we thought they'd be. Um, as I shared with a resident recently, um, the GPS was different in the early 1900s than it is today. So, we're not really, they weren't able, but they knew that they expected that, and everybody's been great to work with. And I want to thank the neighborhood and the people that we've spoken to, as well as the staff. Um, it's really been a come together kind of moment. There's been some challenges, but everybody's been able to work through them so far. Um, and then I'm not going to read the memo. Storm water grant, it's an update to you that we have a new plan. Um, the short of this is we're able to leverage the same amount of funding you gave us to accomplish not only the purchase of a camera, but also to do a fiscal sustainability plan. So, this is the ca this was the grant that was going to buy us a camera to camera all our storm water and sewer lines. What we were found out is we rewarded the grant with that additional grant funding. They asked if we would do a fiscal sustainability plan and we can because the money we allocated is now enough to pay for both because they gave us the grant. That's the short version of that. Um that's where I'll stop. Good. Okay. Any We don't have any public petitions. Any um I've got a couple future agenda items. Anybody have any before I do mine? Just just a question for I I think Clint you mentioned uh in either email or text or something to me that we there will be a light coming back to um by the park on North Main Street. Is that what did you you >> over by Webster Park? >> Webster Park. Yeah. >> Yes. It had had a light in the past. Um it was not replaced when when it came down. I believe it was a lightning strike if I remember correctly from the uh public works department. So they are going to put it back um um soon. >> Appreciate that. Yep. Council, anybody else is n council marks? >> Um yeah, I wanted to ask for two future agenda items. I'm not in a huge rush, but I would like us to Well, one is I've just noticed on the website under the um council tab that there are still some things listed that I think that we unfunded in our budget discussion. I noticed there's still a tab for community mini grants. There's still a tab for the community potlucks and that really never had a funding. There wasn't a cost to that, but I'm not sure if we're intending to run them or not. I have been under the impression perhaps that energy has been diverted into the Orno festival days and perhaps we're not running those this year. But I just feel like as a council we should discuss that and make that clear so staff can be clear what to take off the website if we don't consider those ongoing council projects that we want there. So I'd like to ask for us to talk about that perhaps in September to clean that up. Um, and on a bigger uh issue as some work on the finance committee got me looking and um so I'm really interested in returning to discussion we've had on and off since I've been on council about getting all of our policies easily accessible online. Not council only, but staff policies also by department. Right now it kind of varies a lot. Some departments, as far as I can tell, have almost all their policies linked online and others not at all. I fully understand that some are safety concerns and could never have details linked. Um, but they could at least be a title saying such a policy exists. Um, and I would like us to get back to it because when we did our um, vote on the personnel policy handbook, one of the things we specified in that um, ordinance is that the policy manual will be um, not just given to staff and at the town clerk's office, but also easily visible and accessible on the website. I don't know if it is. I'm not the best at navigating the website, but I couldn't easily find it. And I guess I just I want us to re return to this discussion about making our policies visible, especially as we're putting more information into policies and have ordinances that reference policies. Ordinances are searchable on MUN code easily by the public, but policies are not unless we make them very visible ourselves as a council and together with staff on our website. So, I'd like to ask that we return to that discussion sometime this fall. Okay, let's talk about that in the council planning meeting. Um, all right. So, I had Andrew, do you have anything? >> This might not be an agenda item and somebody can tell me where, but how would do we go about asking for stop signs on a street like at an intersection? >> Replacement or new one? >> New one. We'd have to test whether it's actually qualified for a stop sign, but I would say contact me or the public works department. We can look at a sign, request for a new sign at a location and see if it warrants it. >> Okay. >> Yep. >> We do the same thing if we want a protected bike lane down Main Street. >> All right. Um All right. I'll cross one of my items off my list then. All right. I had a couple couple items. one um Keegan Trip uh the president of the University of Maine Student Senate Student Government Incorporated has invited any counselors who'd like to attend to u join the Uain student government in one of their meetings on Tuesday. You emailed Sarah and I I think um I'm certainly inclined to go. I've been before. I don't know if we want to try and coordinate a time that works for more people. I'd be happy to. We'd probably have to notice it somehow if more than three more than two of us go. But um how do you what's people's interest in going to that or being let's be polite, you know, obviously, right? But I'm going to go. Okay. So, I'll check with get back to me if you've got it. Let's just do it that way. Get back to me oneon-one. Email me directly or text me if you have an interested being included in a doodle poll and we'll find a time. Okay. Um, so that was one thing I had a question about. Um, Webster Park. So, we had I don't know if you people saw some emails going around about um an event that was free to happen um a church service. They didn't need to get a permit from the town. Seemed like it, you know, there were some concerns or questions about whether we allow that kind of stuff. and it felt like staff managed it well and and we don't have policies that require you to get a permit to have an event in the park. Um, someone did reach out to me, you know, does it make sense for us to have and I think Sarah was copied on this as well. Does it make sense for us to have a lot more rules about park usage and things like that? I kind of like it the way it is. I like that people are free to use it and I don't feel like I I haven't heard any concerns about people overusing it to the extent that their use deprivives other people of opportunities to use the park. And there's nothing I like more than riding my bike by the park and seeing everybody using it. So, does anybody have any concerns that thinks we dive into this? Seeing none, hearing none, I'll respond back respectfully and um that we talked about it. Um, another issue that came up that I wanted to share was um, when we did have that meeting, the comprehensive planning committee meeting in July and and 30 people were there, a lot of them were from the Sailor neighborhood and with concern about kind of the direction of where we're going with the Sailor neighborhood lot. I mean, the town owns a substantial piece of property there. And as we talk about more housing, there is clearly no better I I don't want to say it too emphatically, but that is certainly a parcel in our community that is more ready than many others for development for housing or or you know other uses particularly housing. And as we get ready to close the the books on the comprehensive plan and set goals for the next 10 years, I think there's a lot of there's the attendance of that meeting had a lot of signal some apprehension about what's going to happen with that parcel. Um, and I know it's been discussed before, but it probably it certainly precedes my time on the council or in the community. I think it makes sense to have connect with the the neighborhood about what the parcel is and what's been done kind of refresher going into the comprehensive plan. I'd like to understand it better going into the comprehensive plan. Um but I wanted to raise that I guess mostly with the council but certainly with Clint about how we proceed with that discussion. So Dan, just just to be clear, are you asking that to be on a council agenda or a workshop or a what? >> I feel like it's at least have people come in and talk maybe not a council meeting, but have a some time where the neighbor could get together and talk about, you know, what what's been on the books in the past with that parcel, how it could move forward as a, you know, with the comprehensive plan. Um what's been ruled out in the past? I mean, there are things that cannot possibly happen because the parcel know we own a parcel in the Webster neighborhood that's deed for educational uses. So, I I just don't know. I'd like a a base setting and I wouldn't want someone, you know, working at the end of my street where I didn't have a, you know, open discussion to begin the process, particularly if it was a town owned property. But >> I I I'm not sure what work is required, but I I like the idea before having people come in and just kind of hear what they're thinking. I I I do think it would be useful to understand what's on the books and I because I think it's it's fairly well and it's maybe hopefully that's like an easy here's here's where two designated streets were you know whether I think I think I'd heard that if something's developed there we we would and I don't know if it needs to be grandfathered but it would be grandfathered lot sizes and you know things like that which I think are important for people to understand so it's not going to be you know three homes ons 4 acres a piece. I mean, it would be I I think I think understanding like what's there, what was set up that could be there just so we're all on the same page and then if people want to come in and share opinions and I think I've heard I've been around and long enough to have heard opinions before, but um I think I think understanding what's there would be a good first step, whatever timeline that would require. >> Okay, >> just a follow up on that. So to me, does that make sense as like a discussion present like a presentation item at a council meeting? Because my concern if it's held outside of a council meeting is that maybe helpful to people in the community to come and learn what the backstory is and what's on the books, but I feel like every counselor should also know what the backstory is and what's on the books. So that inclines me to feel like it should happen in a council meeting ideally. And I think it should have opinions in the neighborhood about what people want, >> but I've never really heard a summary of what's already on the books and what all the steps in the process have been. So I what I'm looking for at this stage is really just a presentation from staff to us about sort of what's on the books and the backstory and >> and based on the timeline that's appropriate for staff. I don't you know I don't know if there's a >> I'd like to do it before we finalize the comprehensive plan. >> Yeah. Can we can we take this to agenda setting because I'd like to vet a few options. A council meeting >> may not be as open and conversational as a non- one. So can can we just like can we take it to agenda setting just kind of vet a few different ideas that pop into my head as we talk about it? Yes, >> fine by me. Can we just bring it back to council after that so they hear kind of what the options are? Perfect. Thanks. >> Okay, that's what I had. So thank you for that and uh thank you Clint for but we'll talk about it in our our next genocid meeting. Um, final item is public comment and this would be again for something that was not on our agenda. Any public comment? Okay, we are going to have we add an executive session item pursuant to uh oh >> 456B >> 456B to discuss an exe uh personnel matter. Okay. Could I and no action following the the executive session. Could I have a motion to move into executive session? So move second.