Let's go ahead and call the meeting to order. Start with a roll call. McKe here. Landman here. Uh, councelor Pri is not here. Do we know if she's coming? >> She's not. Wedding. >> Oh, that's a good reason. Uh, >> I am here. >> Nichols also here. >> Perfect. And we will go right into the one and only item, the facility need assessments. Uh so Mayor and Council, uh we're excited to open up the discussion tonight with y'all, but this these are discussions that have been happening with staff and and with our BKB team, Krauss Anderson, uh in terms of understanding what we have and what we need uh in order to make important strategic decisions. And uh as I've been through these before, uh I do think this is a unique opportunity. Uh other times I've been through this uh they have not done this and come to council at this stage. The council hasn't seen it until the process was done. And so I'm really grateful for the team for for coming and touching base with you on this part. So before we button up to complete the process gives us a chance to hear your thoughts on it so that they can be incorporated into the final product. And so I will introduce Mr. Michael Healey who's our project manager from BKB and I'll let him introduce the rest of his team and we'll get started. >> I'm Kelly Naylor. I'm also with BKB. >> Mike Phillips, senior project manager with our government group. I'm the facility asset manager for us. >> Thanks for being here. >> Thank you. >> You can jump one more there. >> Um, so tonight we're going to give you an update on the facility condition assessment that Krauss Anderson put together. And then we also did a facility operational assessment and that's kind of touching on the deficiencies in your facilities on the operation side. Uh then we'll talk about the space needs assessments and uh that gives us an idea of your future needs for size and then master planning how those space needs kind of work on uh the proposed sites and and building locations and process estimates for those master planning options and then we'll talk about next steps as we wrap up the study. Mario, I'll pass it over to you. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, a quick agenda high level. Um, we're going to go through the executive summary, a really high level, um, 30,000 foot level. Um, we'll talk about facility condition index and what that means. Um, we'll look at your overall 10-year uh, deferred maintenance plan. Um, kind of a criticality breakdown by facility. Um, and then kind of a overview of each facility that we looked at and kind of those higher level items that we found. And then we'll talk about just the next steps and conclusions. So, next slide, Jay. All right. So, we can we actually added a few um facilities into our original scope um just because it was they were there and they were right next door. Um so, we did five of your buildings um including city hall public safety here um your public works um your parks and your old public works facility as well as the shooting rage which really is an outdoor facility. Um you can see if you want to go to the next slide there. Um so I just want to talk about the facility condition index. This is a really important tool that we use in facility assessments and how we kind of grade facilities on health of a facility. Um so this is developed by IFMA. So the international facility managers association. Um it is basically a quick health check on your facility based on deferred maintenance capital needs over a 10-year period. So you can see in the in the far well not well the far right you can see this colorcoded it's not showing up the right colors on the screen but um so the FCI ratings is basically that 10-year deferred maintenance plan that we discovered through the assessment against a building replacement cost. So a like forlike replacement. Um so that's how you get that FCI that facility condition index. So, it's a percentage of the building replacement cost against that 10-year cost that we found. Um, so you can see across the board, um, city hall, we're teetering at just under $2 million that will that you'll need over the next 10 years. Um, public works is about 2.6 million over the next 10 years. Um, and we can talk about um 20, so you built that building in 2013. Um 20 years is a big benchmark in any facility. Um that's when you're going to see a lot of capital improvements needed, a lot of replacement of mechanical equipment. Um and you do have a lot of that there. So that's why um you'll see in the next couple slides that there is a big chunk in that 2033 category of things that are going to come up. So good road map for you. Um, when it comes to that public works facility, um, you can see parks maintenance building. That building is is in very rough condition. I don't think anybody who's been there is very surprised by that communication. Um, it is a 1974 building and it literally has not been touched at all from, you know, maybe some paint and a few maintenance items there, but otherwise it is um it's not ADA compliant. It's it's pretty rough shape. But we'll get into that here in a minute. >> I just have a question for you on the >> I assume it says present day replacement cost the middle column. >> That's the cost. That's the cost um per square footage. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So that's that's what we use as a baseline based on Mike's, you know, current present day costs per square footage of that type of facility. Obviously, it fluctuates a lot in in our current environment. we, you know, we try to keep a really close pulse on what that cost per square footage is, but that's how we get to that building replacement cost. Um, so we take that square footage, um, you know, times it by that square, that cost per square foot, and then we get that building replacement cost. So, yeah, awesome question. You're paying attention. I like it. >> All right, next slide, Jay. All right, so this is your 10-year maintenance plan here that we've come up with. Obviously, our plan is more than 10 years, but we like to capture it in a 10-year period because it's easy to digest in a 10-year. Um, so you can see that that blue bar there, 2033, that's a big year for public works. There's a lot that needs to be done in that year. Um, so you can see that huge bar there. Um, the orange is all city hall public safety. So, you can see, you know, 2026 there's, you know, over half million dollars worth of of needs here. So, and we'll get into that. So, you can see kind of down the road. I won't, you know, read off every single thing there, but you know, 2034 there's quite a bit. I think that's more interiors, but we can get into that in the next slide. Next slide, Jay. All right. Um, I like to have this in in just so you can see where your dollars are going towards in that grand scheme of things when it broken down by facility. So, again, that public works is over half of what we found. Um, city hall is is a quite a large chunk at almost $2 million. Um, you know, parks is is a small facility, so it doesn't really take up a lot of um costs there, but the two, as you are not surprised by, the city hall and public works are going to be your biggest investments coming up in the next 10 years here. Next slide, Jay. All right, so kind of getting into um sight specific breakdown. Um, so this is the city hall public facil public public safety facility that we're sitting in. That FCI is at, you know, 0.28. So that's getting up there in the fair category almost getting to the poor. Um, we'll talk about why that is. Um, you can see that HVAC pie, that very large orange there. There are a lot of challenges here with HVAC. Um the building is very difficult for the the team to manage in terms of heating and cooling. Um there needs to be a rebalance of the system at a minimum to get it back to a baseline of the HVAC. So it's it's back to where it was designed to be operating and then you know it needs to go from there in terms of extra repairs, replacement of items. Um it's definitely needing some extra heat pumps. it needs to be reszoned in terms of the thermostats and all the set point areas. Um as well as we would highly recommend installing a building automation system here. Um it's you know from multiple reasons obviously from a savings aspect from you know sustainability of you know not using you know energy when you're not needing to. Um you're able to see trends in the facility in terms of the HVAC. So you can kind of see what it's doing and you can see it remotely. Um, so you won't have all these thermostats on the wall everywhere. So it'll give you a lot of data. Um, also exterior enclosure, a lot of windows, doors are going to come up for replacement. Um, there's some, you know, step cracking on this west end of the building. That's a concern. Um, there's some separation in the sidewalk at that end of the building. Can kind of fit my hand all the way down in there. So, it was it was kind of a concern there. Um, obviously site work, you're going to continue to do maintenance on your parking lot. So, you'll do, you know, seal coats, restripes, you know, even a mill and overlay will happen eventually here in the next 10 years. So, um, so those are kind of your big your big chunks there. There are some, you know, other items in there that we'll talk about as we continue. So, next slide, Jay. Thank you. Um, so you can just see some examples of some concerning items here. So that step cracking at the west that I talked about, that separation at the west as well. Um, multiple trip hazards around the building. Nothing, you know, this is Minnesota. We have heaving. It's a common occurrence. Um, the exterior enclosure, you know, reccocking of the windows is is definitely going to help with energy savings costwise. um you know keeping this building nice and airtight. Um you know some poor you know doors you know typical things nothing of huge con consequence when it comes to the doors. Um next slide. Um the big this is the biggest I would focus more on this when we're talking about the biggest concerns here at this building. So fire protection. Um right now you have detection. You do not have any suppression which it's it's within code. However, when you have, you know, police department and you have evidence stored here, you have data racks that have valuable data on them, they're not protected. So, if a fire were to break out here and it gets destroyed, it's kind of a risk, you know. So, we did, you know, have that in the plan. It's not it's not currently in the 10-year plan, but it is in the facility condition assessment with pricing. So, um I did just want to call that out. Um so, HVAC, that's the big pie that we were talking about earlier. Um garage ventilation is a huge, you know, concern. Um you've got multiple, it's kind of a multi-use room, um with a lot of different activities going on in it. So, we just want to make sure, you know, it's properly ventilated for the users. Um heat pumps. Um the heat pumps in this building are at the end of their useful life. they do need to be replaced. With that, you're going to need to add additional heat pumps to help with that heating and cooling issue that you're having across the entire facility. Um, and then the zoning, which I had mentioned earlier. So, remapping of the zones. Um, making sure that you know these units aren't fighting each other. Um, because then there's dead banding and you're not getting the proper heating or cooling. um because the units don't know, they're battling each other essentially. So um you know, some of the duct work will need to be um re kind of remapped as well. Um and then the HBAC controls. So um next slide. All right. And a quick I'm not going to go through um public works of I'm just going to keep this high level. Oh, I'm sorry. >> If we're done with that building, I have one followup question. >> Absolutely. So the the cost estimates you had on slide 12, where did those dollar values come from? Is that like a bottomup estimate? This is what it would take to repair this. Is it based on square footage? And it's sort of a prorated based on the age. >> What level of analysis went into that? >> It's based on each individual asset. So every every line item like all the heat pumps, they're individually costs. They're Yeah. It's down to BTUs, CFMs. It's very down to that level of detail. So, it's not a high level. It's Yeah. >> So, this is fairly reliable. >> This is Yeah. >> Okay. So, so this is also reflective of And she's not showing this. We're we're getting uh this amazing tool that is tracking each of our assets individually to include photos of where it is, serial number, all of that. They've put that together for us that allows us as an asset management tool going forward in order to do life cycle management. and it gives us the projected replacement cost, projected maintenance costs. Uh, incredible value for us. That's that's one of the big reasons why we we we chose them was we we recognized what an incredible tool that was going to be for us near term. Uh, and also an important decision- making tool uh for strategic decisions long term. >> Who are you using for that service? >> We we developed it ourselves. Yeah. And it's actually a Microsoftbased system. It's not proprietary. So if anybody knows how to do Excel, you're good to go. So >> they're giving it. >> Yes. Yeah. I mean, it's all your data >> given away. >> No, we we paid for it with our fee. >> Wasn't born yet. >> Yeah, there is a fee, but you know, >> like a cool deal. >> It It's as a previous facility manager, I wish I would have had it. So, I'll just leave it at that. So, um, but and there are, um, we do inflationary dollars, so year after year. So, if you were to move any of this out of the, you know, the current time frame, it's going to add, you know, a 4% inflationary dollar amount onto it automatically. So, we try to keep up with that inflation dollars to make sure that we're, you know, keeping on point with that because it's it's a thing and it's not going away. >> This is high level reflecting an incredible amount of minutiae data. Yes. Yes, it is. Thank you, Jeremy. All right. So, just um I'm not going to go over public works. I I kind of hit on it pretty um pretty high level earlier. There's going to be a lot coming up in the next 10 years. So, I just want you to you to be prepared for that. Um you know, making sure the CIP is reflective of those needs um ahead of time is going to help you um you know, substantially. So, so we can skip through. >> Can I ask just a real quick question? >> Sure. >> You had in there building condition someplace, >> am I right? >> Was that being built in 2013? I think it was. >> Yes. So, 2033 is going to be a big year for this facility because a lot of mechanical equipment ages about >> internal mechanical, those kind of things. >> Yep. building should be pretty rock solid. >> The building itself, yes, it needs some tuck pointing. It needs some ephus repair. It needs, you know, just general normal wear and tear stuff. But yeah, like you know, your fire panel 20, you get about 20 years on a fire panel before you need to replace it. This does have analog service in it. We recommend, you know, getting that updated to, you know, a more upto-date system. >> Being as new and building as it is, the bones are good. >> The bones are good. where this one bones ain't good. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. Yeah. But you know, facilities always need care and that's part of, you know, just like home ownership, you continually have to update things. So otherwise it will bite you. >> You know, that upper left hand photo doesn't look as nice as the new water treatment plant. So >> yeah, they're they're definitely >> Just saying, Kevin. >> Yeah. Those are great pictures. Thank you. Keep going. >> There's way more. No, you're good. This is This is good. So, we'll just keep going through um because public works, it's just the same 2033. Um the old public works, there's not really anything to talk about there. You guys replaced the roof recently and the sighting there. Um the parking lot is a question for you guys if you want to just, you know, make it more of a gravel um parking lot um or mill and overlay. That is the biggest question there. You do have a trip hazard at the main door entry there that you can see. Um, that's really about it. And there's an electrical panel there that's original, so that probably should be replaced as a fire hazard situation. Um, but anyways, we'll keep going. And I know I'm I need to boot scoot so you can talk. >> On the parks building, if I'm jumping ahead, we just did that roof, right? >> Not just, but we did. Yeah. So again, kind of >> so the roof is not in there. Um you can see that >> kind of pig kind of deal. >> Yeah. So the interior is not ADA compliant at all. The bathrooms are very very tight. Um the lighting in there is really poor. Um the doors are in really rough condition. I mean it's it's a really it's the building's in pretty rough shape. And there there's definitely some efflloresence on that. I don't know what direct this this right hand side. You could even see it in that photo there. how how different colored it is. Um there's definitely some moisture in that wall. Um but yeah, it's it's the building is 1974 and not much other than roof and painting's been done to it. So >> it's done it job. >> You've gotten your ROI is good. >> Um so we could skip that. Um >> what ROI means. >> Um so >> yeah, we we got to keep it light and airy, right? Um, so just kind of doing a summary here, we got about $5.25 million in needs over the next 10 years over those facilities that we reviewed. This is a do nothing plan. This is basically you're just going to stay and continue to live in these facilities. So that's what that 5.25 is. It doesn't address the space adequacy. That's going to be Mike's Mike's next conversation. So really it's about determining the next steps for this facility. Um determining the next steps for the parks maintenance building and then obviously being prepared for the upcoming public works facility and the maintenance and capital needs for that one. Any questions before I hand it over to Mike? >> I'll pop up here with you. Um so the next thing we wanted to cover um obviously we went through the conditions of the facilities but we're also big part of this is looking at any operational deficiencies and um obviously the biggest one for the city hall is simply out of space and um we definitely saw that walking through the building. I think the the staff entry vestibules is functioning as a storage space right now. So >> and a work space >> and a workspace. Yeah. M multi multi-purpose. Is that your office? >> Not today. Not yet. >> Um, I think I I think in in most facilities we want to be able to create a nice secure perimeter between staff and and public. And currently the the welcome desk is kind of bifurcated from from the city hall. So, I think there's there's some definitely some security concerns um and just some workflow concerns there. Um, acoustically, that was something we heard from the staff that that is definitely a challenge in the open office area right now because there's so many people working in that space. Um, storage certainly a concern. Um, back to the security, um, the lack of ballistic protection in both this room at the the DAZ as well as the the welcome desk. Um, but the positive was I think the feedback was on this this space that this actually from a size standpoint functioned pretty well for the for the city hall. >> Next up, we'll talk about the police area. So, police are they're out of uh staff space for the most part to grow the department. So, the reception and record staff, they've I think stuffed maybe four people into that space. that's probably sized for two. They've got issues now where monitors are facing the public window. So, there's some sieges compliance issues there. Um, also having the public uh once they go through that main festival, the public are pretty much right in the main operations of the police department, which is not ideal obviously. Usually those are kind of separated as ballistic glass and so forth. You can keep people where they need to be. Um and then locker rooms are drastically undersized and inadequate for the department. Uh department also has a single restroom that's shared with both anybody they're bringing in for for booking or detaining uh for interviews. Um so that creates a little bit of a safety risk and a and a navigation issue when they're trying to bring people in and out and people are crossing paths there. Um, additionally the uh the EOCC slcallclassroom is all kind of multi-purpose. So there is some issues there if they're trying to hold a train event and they're also doing a shift change that to interrupt those those items. And we go to next slide and uh talking about their uh support spaces. So weapon cleaning right now is done in the garage as well as storage for their fitness equipment and their defensive tactical supplies. All those things uh being stored in there. It's not the ideal space. And when uh their training equipment is stored in a garage, it's probably not being used every day, which would be ideal for them to be able to use it whenever they have time and continue their training. the weapon cleaning being in the garage that doesn't have adequate uh OSHA pieces like eyewash, hand sink, and also it's lacking the proper ventilation for that space to get any lead particulate or the harmful chemicals out of the space. The same goes for the evidence area, the bottom left picture there. That's a it's a nice little workbench, but it's lacking a lot of the best practices like you'd see eyewash and a hand sink again, and then proper ventilation, possibly a fume hood. So if they are bringing anything into the station and it is contaminated with who knows what it's not traveling throughout the entire uh office area. Um the garage then in general too it's you know four four stalls I think they've got a fleet of probably three times that and most of the fleet is out in the parking lot being exposed to the very uh you know cold and hot climate that we have here and that really wears down on the sensronics and the really expensive equipment in those squads. So we always recommend getting those indoors if possible. Go next. Um so the Andrew from Oral Architects did the planning for the public works side. He wasn't able to join here tonight, but um general the facility, you know, is in okay shape for being only a little over 10 years old, but it is undersized a lot. And that's leading the department to have their operations kind of spread throughout. Equipment spread throughout. So it's not very efficient. It's not ideal. Some of the spaces are being used for multiple things where ideally they would be, you know, purposely built and adjacencies and things like that could be improved. >> Jump next. So, the facility needs assessment. Can >> we go back quick to the public works one? Um, you know, you said undersized. I think we'd all agree with that. Um, I saw at one point a number that was a rough number of right sizing it. You know what that roughly was? >> I think that's like three slides up. Yeah, we've got the program on there. >> No, it's right. >> I might have to get close to the screen to be able to read these these numbers, but this this is the um the summary of space needs for both the police and city hall. And we've got this broken out. Um this all this information was was generated. We did um staff surveys. We did tours of all the spaces. Um we did we did interviews and then we worked with um the leadership team to to refine this. Um this reflects you can see the first column is the is the current space need. Um so that's that's what we're projecting for for staffing needs currently and then we've got a 10-year and a 20-year. And so you've got the the PD at at the top. Um the city halls at the bottom in between there's police and city hall shared spaces. So there is some efficiency in a shared facility. Those could be things like um public meeting rooms, restrooms, um building support type spaces. And you know when you when you look at the detail of some of the you know where the the square footage growth is from 2025, we've got a a gross projected need at about 64,000 jumps to 86,000 at the 20-year need. And it's important to kind of look at the detail and you can see where some of the the um departmental spaces, patrol investigations, you guys are a growing community. That's where some of the the growth is is happening. Stephen the city hall a little bit with um community development as as another example. I think the greatest um driver of that jump is the fleet garage and Mike can talk a little bit about that related to PD. >> And with the the study and the report that we put together, you'll get the full 15 pages of program that has every staff position and space and everything listed for for your reading enjoyment. Um we tried to summarize it here. Um, for PD, yeah, there's there's the the growth is is mostly growing through patrol. There's some some admin and so forth, but when you grow patrol, you grow more squads, you grow some more lockers and that sort of stuff. Um, and then some detectives, uh, you know, through the years, too. But, um, so that's how you're seeing the the growth there. And then police also had a a strong goal to provide training facilities in a you know future want in a future uh station that they would want to operate in. Um so we've got different training functions in there too that uh take up part of the part of the square footage and some of those training operational spaces could be spaces that are more of a regional base that other departments and local municipalities could could use and share. So we can jump to the next one. Uh so fire station, we also did a conceptual fire station program and we interviewed uh Hanover and Rogers and West Suburban Fire Department chiefs and kind of met and just talk about if if uh city was to build a fire station at some point and maybe they still support you guys, but what would be the minimum for that station? And then also if that station did roll over to being a volunteer station or a uh staff station here and and uh what spaces would be required. So we'd have the current need which has a little bit less apparatus bay space assuming that some other apparatus and equipment is coming from other stations that are nearby. And then as you go 20 years out that includes the full buildout of the uh five apparatus space. So that's about the 24,000 ft. And then in the master planning concepts we're going to be sharing with you. All of these concepts are showing the 20-year proposed need because that's typically what we try to build towards except for the public works is showing the current need. We'll get to that slide. So for the public works program, their current need right now is listed uh in that highlighted column to the left. And then we also projected out the five, 10, and 20 year needs there. I think this missed the kind of overall subtotal at the bottom there, but um when you start to see the overlay the master programming or master planning concepts, you'll see that the existing building is probably a fourth or less than the size of what the need is. the the existing public works facility, the building itself is is drastically smaller than what the current need is >> and square footage wise. square footage wise. >> Yeah, >> I don't have that number off hand. >> I thought I saw that number and I can't remember what it was. It seemed >> looks like about 230,000. >> It seemed high to me. >> Yeah, some of that I think potentially is yard space too. I don't remember exactly how Andrew the current size I apologize, but the five public works need was 113,000 square feet. The 20-year need was 179,000 square feet. And then I believe was the site acreage. I know in our estimate we were assuming about eight, but I believe the number was closer to 11 to 12 acres if I recall correctly. >> Yep. Sounds right. 12 acres. Yeah. >> So if there are more public works questions, we can circle back on those and have Andrew address them. >> Sounds good. >> Yeah. So we can jump to master planning here. So, we looked at a couple different sites um for and a couple different options. We met with staff and kind of determined what the best approach was for master planning, whether there were separate city hall and police or combined police, fire, city hall, all that kind of stuff. We landed on the options that we're sharing here tonight. So, this is a site right down St. Theres on the end of the road here. Uh really nice site lays out really well for a combined facility. Um, so this option that we're showing the north kind of parking area is staff and PD operational parking and circulation. So that has a fence around it for secured parking there. And that building kind of naturally using topography that's there. We can have a tuck under garage space. So all the the fleet for the police can be under the building and protected from the weather. This is a two-story building. Part of it's twotory. So you also get some nice presence along the road there for your civic facility. And then uh the public parking, you know, is kind of shown on the southside there. And depending on how the rest of that southern civic campus or city center area develops, maybe that parking could be work through and more of a drive-thru and connect with other stuff that's down there. But um this shows that the building fits as program for that 20-year need. There's also ample space for future addition or other site features, whether it's, you know, outdoor program space or whatever. Um it's a nice size site and worked well. Go to the next. This is just a little zoomed in picture. So, this one is just north of the Heritage Park site. This is just using a piece of that available land that's or undeveloped land that's there right now. Um there's another strip kind of further north of that, but this is using kind of the higher land piece and avoiding some of the wetlands that that snake through there. Same kind of concept though. Part of the building is twotory. We'd have a partial uh basement area there that would have the squad parking and some of the support spaces for PD that don't require the daylight. We'd have a secure parking area for city hall staff and PD. Uh and then uh public parking off the north end there. Um also a really nice site with a visible frontage right on the road. It would give you a nice civic identity in the area and I think it would tie in nice with the park features too. Potentially you could pull some trails around and connect that into the park area. And we looked at if city hall and the police were to vacate this site and a future fire station was here, what that might look like. So we did two options here, kind of pushing the fire station north south on the site to see how it would work out. This was a preferred option here, having evident closest to that uh that kind of loop drive that's through there and minimizing the amount of curb cuts along Highway 10. So, this is showing that full uh fire station buildout with the two extra apparatus bays on that north end in that little lighter red color, but this includes uh some of the bunk space if you guys did have kind of an onduty or combination crew. It shows the public parking and an opportunity for kind of a front plaza area facing the the uh main roadway. Um there's also potential you can still keep that kind of memorial garden space too in the back of the site and integrate that in with the design. Go to the next. >> Yep. >> Um are you familiar with some of the OSHA requirements that are being talked about for fire stations? >> Yeah. As far as the hot and cold clean zone, >> a whole bunch of them. Yeah. >> Is that taking some of that into account? >> Yep. This was planned with that with the deconvestables and and uh compartmentalizing the station. So the apparatus bays have have adequate support spaces like dedicated turnout gear areas and decon equipment areas and personnel decon spaces and uh air air uh locks between any living quarters and the apparatus bays. All that kind of stuff is taken down. >> The subject matter expert on their team uh his name is Craig. is actually in Pennsylvania. Uh dozens and dozens of fire stations uh former firefighters and uh so we we talked in with each of the fire chiefs about their perspective, their concerns related with how they operate as well as what they see for future needs to include some of those social requirements. So he's >> he doesn't live here in Minnesota, but he's built lots of fire stations in Minnesota. >> Yep. Thank you. So the this is next option there. This is just the same kind of thing but showing it on the other end of the parcel. And we decided this one, you know, wasn't the best because we're having public access off of the higher speed limit areas and then also introducing a lot of curb cuts along Highway 10, which isn't isn't ideal and also costly. Um, so public works, this is a diagram of how that could expand on its current site. There are some site constraints to work through with the wetlands and and storm water treatment, but this could be a phased approach with kind of building the out from the existing building and keeping parts of it in place. Uh but there's a lot of little parts and pieces here that are are hard to read in this diagram. But it is achievable to to build on this uh short term for your your current need. Although there are limitations as you start to look out past uh 20 years and I think further discussions that Kevin's kind of having with Andrew to to plan for those. We'll skip over too much detail on that one for now. my turn. So, I'm going to bring my computer up just in case there's any more uh or further detailed questions which I'm happy to walk through. >> Um just quickly before I jump into that, I was able to find so current square footage between the old and new um public works is approximately 35,000 square feet today >> between our existing old and our >> Yep. the the current public works is just shy of 31,000 ft² and the current well I shouldn't say current the old public works or what's referred to as old public works is about 4,000 ft. So 31 and four puts you at about 35 today. >> Okay. >> And then again um I know we're not jumping the expansion as TBD because there was some changes uh uh between parties that's not me right. There were some recent changes on public works and so we're actually working through updating the budget to include a five and 10 year or excuse me five and 20-year projection for public works and we're in the process of updating those figures. Um so if we go back to the cost estimate piece please. Thank you. Um so based on the information that BKV just walked through in terms of staff interviews and uh meeting with city leadership and fine-tuning um those space programs at a concept level and we're really even kind of pre-concept and master planning um we take a look at buckets of square footage and apply a standard unit price that we see. So based on the numbers that you see up here for city hall and police, uh we're taking a look at um you know three to four projects that we've done in the past I would say one to five years. Uh bringing those costs forward to today and then applying that to uh your programmatic square footage. And so that brings us to the estimates that you see the construction costs. Those are the hard costs. Uh the individual subcontracts that you'd expect enter into the soft cost for those that may not be familiar. Those are things like design fees, contract management fees, um utilities, furnitureures, fixture equipment, so desks, things to to to kind of fulfill uh the the completed space. So, um again, for both city hall, police, uh that is um the full 20-year need as is the u I'm just double checking that number quick. I think that one also is the full >> Yeah, the fire station should do the full one as well. >> Yep. So, that is that is the full 20-year need which does include the full buildout of the apparatus bay that Mike referenced previously. And then again, the public works numbers will be updated shortly. Any questions on costs or how we calculate those costs? >> So, I have one on city hall police area as proposed. Uh, it looks like $100 a square foot for that complex. about 30% of the square footage is fleet garage. Does that cost $500 a square foot or is that lower and other parts of that building are considerably higher? So we end up with the 500. >> Correct. That is a it's an aggregate of the individual components of that space. So for example, let me quickly jump into The short answer to your question is we look at different buckets of space within. So it's not just like the flea garage. The flea garage for example isn't 400. Let's just say it's $450 on average a square foot. The fleet garage realistically is about $150 to $175 a square foot. and we apply that rate times the fleet garage space and then the building would be higher than that. So that net that you see is an aggregate over that entire space. >> Okay. >> Does that answer your question? >> Okay. And I can certainly go deeper into the weeds on that if needed. But >> it'd be good to know um the cost of the fleet storage and what savings could be achieved by adopting alternatives like take-h home squad cars or surface parking. Um, I'm concerned a little bit that the cost of the storage might be more than the cost of the vehicles, let alone the incremental advantage in the turnover time of the vehicles. So to speak into that a little bit, um, Council Member Nichols and I have talked about this, uh, and we are exploring alternatives for the future in order to reduce the amount of permanent storage that we need. We don't have those solutions yet, but we're discussing them. Uh but if that were if that were a hard line or a concern, uh we could set a not to exceed storage and then we can come up with alternatives to ensure that we're finding. So you saw a big jump from the 10-year plan to the 20-year plan because of the volume of the fleet and how that's going to grow. We definitely need to take that into consideration. So we don't want to build it a fleet garage for what we have now because That's what we did with our public works building and and we didn't build it as big as we needed it at the time. We we need to take into consideration what our future needs are going to be or understand that as soon as we build it, we're going to be planning for an upgrade or expansion. >> Any additional questions? Thank you. >> Last slide is just next steps. Yeah. >> So, uh we're hoping in the next couple weeks here just confirm the master planning approach that we share with you today and kind of get the study finalized and wrapped up. So, we'll be working through a development plan with staff to identify kind of how phasing would work and schedule-wise so we can make sure the cost estimates reflect potential years that construction or development might happen. Um, and then we'll be finalizing the entire document and uh putting it together and sharing it with city and staff. And then I believe we potentially we're going to come back and meet with the council uh one more time to present the final document. So that's kind of the the plan here wrapping up in the next couple weeks. Um if if I could um so a couple things that would be helpful for us just to clarify that I would say they kind of ended up as assumptions based upon the experts guidance but we need to confirm that this is the direction council wants us to go and so one example would be regardless of where the site is uh because of the reality after our fire services conversation we don't presently have the partnerships in order to move into a building at the time of construction right now. Uh the presumption that they were operating with was one separate building. One of the things I learned from this process and talking to the experts is active space with people and big trucks don't work really well together. And so uh they they were making it really clear that having a separate fire station is is a best practice. Uh especially if we're trying to in a space where there's going to be high pedestrian traffic area. And so one of the things that I wanted to clarify is it may not be this site but is that a safe presumption from council having not having I was operating when we first started conversations that we would have an all-inclusive everything on a campus and I was actually resistant to staff to their staff when they were saying hey no it actually is best practice to have the fire station separate and so I want to do an aszmouth check on that uh to see is that a direction uh U because that's kind of where they've been operating based on their experience and their understanding. I just want to clarify how council thinks about that because it would be a huge change for us. >> I think that makes sense. And also if we were to look at it being on that site and city hall being at one of the sites looked at just down the road. It's not that far. Also, it's far enough to prevent some of the issues, but walkable. I I' I've been saying this all along, one campus for all of them. I did not think that was a good idea. Um, execute on city hall and police and I think you and I have had that conversation, Jay. Sewer and water is going to cost this ad cost if it goes by the parking lot >> or out by the park and stuff. We've got it all there. We've got all of the utilities here for those three departments. And then to to to talk public works where you guys were saying we have eight acres now and probably need 11 to get 20 years out. Am I hearing all of that right? >> And I don't know I don't know on current acres. I can double check that. I think that's about right. Yeah. I've heard between 11 and 12 I believe. >> The wetlands and everything that are out there. Correct. >> Again, the bones are good. It's a decent building, but and and my issue with public works is I wish it would have been more centralized than clear out on the edge of town. Otherwise, it's it's serving its purpose. It's doing well, but that that's it. So, my thoughts are phase one is city hall police. So, just to clarify, the fire department being separate. >> Yep. >> Is is there any other feedback on the fire department? >> I'm fine with the fire department being separate. I struggle with failing to utilize this building in the future plan um and knocking it down to put in something else at the site. I feel like there might be value in finding other way to repurpose it either as you know a phase expansion for the public safety area or does some of the city hall functionality maybe work here so we can continue to use this existing footprint with the updates that we talked about as a way to defer the $700 square foot construction we would expect in the new campus location for that kind of office area. And and my argument to that is this building is inadequate at best the state >> a lot of money to make it serviceable. >> Yeah. So I I wanted to come back for them for some of some of the assumptions. So the the fire um council member Lanchman, do you have any feedback on that? >> Um I I would support separate facilities. >> Okay. So So there's clarification. That was an important assumption because it would mess up a lot of decision making that happening. And then to get back to council member uh Baronamp's comment, uh as we went in, we started asked them, if you recall, to look at really uh multiple locations. This site that they're looking at was included in the larger site, but this actually wasn't a focus of the discussion when we first met and started conversations. Uh what what triggered looking at other sites, uh like council member Baron was saying, was we recognized that the council the cost of pulling the trunk line sewer and water to the location and that would either be on 116 which they affectionately call the alien property because if you look at it it looks like an alien. >> Pretty cool. >> So so just the water uh the water shed around it uh looks it looks like an alien that property north of us on 116 and the former Rockford property adjacent to Heritage Park. Both of those would have significant infrastructure costs. Both the trunk line sewer and required turn links. And as as staff was ruminating on that, it came up, oh, this is something that we had never talked about. And then the planets started to align really quickly. Trunk lines already there. No sewer required. It's already called City Center Drive. uh and and and there's been some tremendous investments already in terms of beautifification uh lights, future flower baskets and put so so being able to capitalize on that investment made a lot of sense. So I just wanted those who are watching and watch this in the future to understand why did this pop up. It was it was out of a stewardship question. how we can get the most bang for the buck and how can we leverage investments that we've already been made. Uh another thing that is compelling is the the city center in terms of our comp plan is this and to the south this communicates pretty strongly for future development that the city is all in that this is city center. uh is is if this becomes our center of operations that becomes compelling for future development as opposed to some of the other sites really pulls our center of operations away. It it becomes the center of gravity for the community. So that was some of the the reasoning behind how we landed here. Uh a couple things that I I wanted to be aware of. One of the concerns I had is this is a heavily treated area and uh and so in my cursory look at it uh it's attracted trees. So we actually tech go and do an inventory and assess the trees. Uh I'm sad to report that there are some beautiful trees there, but they are not high quality trees. What that means is like some of the most beautiful trees are at the end of their life cycle. Like there's a beautiful 24 24 uh foot uh sugar maple that uh is dead. It's in the process of dying. The biggest tree that they had, I think, is a cottonwood that they identified as which isn't a high quality tree. Uh and then some of the other trees, but there's an opportunity for us in order to maintain the spirit as we develop this to protect and preserve some of the trees around there so that we don't just clearcut it if necessary. But I was hoping that we'd find some unicorn trees that we could build around uh and and they don't exist uh on this site. Another thing that's unique about it and it's not evident from the pictures is the topography. This is a very high point. Uh some advantages to us when we go to build on it, when we go to do a tuck under garage, that's going to help us a little bit uh in terms of cost. Uh so that's that's an advantage to us. Um and also the present uh storm water collection uh just the way that the water flows already off the site because of that it it makes it very easy to put storm water collection just to the east of that. So so there's some natural uh realities of the site that make this the easiest of the three of the sites that we looked at farm. So that's that's why they looked at this where it landed on the site. The reason it's not coming in right across from St. is uh because there'd be some implications on how it would disrupt the road and some other stuff. What's really great is you can come in straight into our parking lot. Uh so the way that it's designed right now, it lends itself really well for us to activate this site. Um some of the um other things that we have been talking about is is impact of flow. uh how do we get presently protect our employees from some of the things that are just happening in the world? Uh and this was attractive that it allows us to create a staff entrance separate from where everybody else is coming in. Uh that can get awkward sometimes when you've had a very hard conversation with somebody. Some of you have experienced this and then now you get to walk out to the parking lot together. Uh um and so so when council comes they can park in the back and not have to do that. So, from a public safety perspective, there's some some helpful things about this. Uh, I think those are all the staff. Are there any other things that I wanted to >> I just want to quickly touch minor, but I think another uh advantage of the site compared to the other sites that had county road because it's a city street, we're able to have full access points, two full access points, whereas the other ones to one and maybe a public access. >> Oh, yeah. Because we can access >> Exactly. that becomes important as we look at redundancy for access and things that we've learned in site security from um demonstrations and so as we as we lay out making sure that we have designated spaces if there's public demonstrations where that happens without disrupting the safety and coming staff. So, I think it does give us a little bit more flexibility with how we can access and interface with our with it. And I I think also it's encouraging that it's it's walkable to the downtown as it develops. So when we talk about um you know as we look at our development plan and how things are zoned some of our people in town who have the least access to vehicles is eventually as our downtown grid gets built out it's actually walkable with some of those our other walkable spaces and are less mobile community members. The thing I was most excited about is dollar for dollar whatever we're investing instead of land acquisition which would be anywhere between six and 10 million where the market's going. Uh we already own the land. So right away we're starting off with $10 million saved. Uh and then when you looked at the three to5 million for the turn lanes and the trunk line sewer. So we're between 10 and 15 million because of this site. So that the money that we are investing, every dollar is going to improve either the quality of the customer service that we're providing, the public safety perspectives of both our council and our staff, or just the efficiency and effectiveness of our operations. >> I frankly think it's a little bit more than that given the numbers we were hearing when we were exploring other properties. I don't remember hearing 10 for a property that we're different, but hearing more than that. >> Fair. Yeah, I was trying to be conservative. >> Mr. Mayor, >> yeah, >> I got just one question. >> Kevin, are you being feel like you're being left out when we talk public or uh city hall and police and public works is out there on the edge of town or >> I mean, I think all of us I think there's competing interests in the city. So, I I don't think that we I think we have to I mean, we have to solve this problem, but we can't forget about public works. I think there has to be some investment in public work in order to sustain and and solving that you know that problem is is still out there. So I >> as I as I said >> I don't feel like I'm being left out but I do want to message that there is problems that we have to solve public works as well. >> As I said the logistics is it an issue being the furthest away from the most developed part of town? >> Yeah it's a logistical issue. So at some point it would be nice to have some other facility centralized around the east metro. Uh and then you know >> east metro or east >> east got you if you want. >> We ain't we ain't going to we ain't going to support the metro side of things. Take care of Corpin first. Yeah. >> No, I just I wanted to make sure >> there would be benefit to finding space central or eastern near the urban areas near where the density is. I mean the is going to be there from a from a operations. Our parks are there from the parks operations perspective. The old >> utilities are all on the east side and >> the old public works is how big that property >> I think it's eight >> hardly anything right >> oh the old public works >> the old public square footage it's like 3763 >> and it's a big ravine and >> yeah that's you can't really expand anything there >> you might be able to do some extra storage or fencing or add storage but I don't think you're operating really I thought of that for some of the >> Yeah. Some of the things we've been talking about also, you know, this covers uh the the new city hall site covers a lot of things, but we're still going to need off-site storage. >> Yep. >> Uh and so we've talked about how we can leverage that, put a fence around it in order to protect our assets, and whether that's gravel. So, so I think that's going to continue to be an important capability for us. We we need to to do some things, but that's not going to require a heavy lift in terms of investment in order to do that. >> Yeah, we just got we got to stay tight and close to public works and and the needs and stuff. So, this is exciting. >> Not sure how we're going to do it, but it's exciting. >> Short answer is we can't ignore public works for five years. >> Please. Yes. >> The the last thing that I say, mayor and council, is, you know, this is this is way up here. This this is our opportunity to get your feedback, hear what your concerns are. Uh share what our assumptions were and and correct any of those if necessary before we get to the final product. Uh and then even with the final product, that's the launch point. That's the launch point for the delivered planning. So we we've identified here's what the 20 year requirement would be. That doesn't mean that that's what we build. Uh but we also need to recognize that it's never going to be than today. So, to get as much as we can uh in order to think strategically for the future and and and we already tonight uh the mayor and Kevin and I were riffing on some things about some potential opportunities that we might be able to be even more strategic and and bring some things to the table. So, that that's kind of the way that we operate here. You know, coming back to the public works building, council member can like we just added significant square footage uh collaborative partnership and at a lower cost >> done really well on that >> uh and and self-performing a lot of things. So, um that that's the spirit like we we do quality work, but we're also good stewards of every buck that we get. And so, while they're giving us the best information for the market, uh we are also as staff going to do our best to make sure that what we're doing is going to provide the greatest value to the community for the long range. So any buck that we spend is is intended. And so uh to address council member Nichols concern about this, I appreciate that. I came in here and I thought, man, this could potentially be our post office. What if Corkran had a post office? It's set up really cool. Uh that that might be a use until I found out. Yeah, the post office isn't going to let us do that. I explored it >> bottom bottom of bus stop. >> Yeah. And and and I thought about Oh, a library. that would be fantastic. And I talked with the county about the library, uh, they're not as enthusiastic about opening lots of new libraries as I thought they might be. So, so e even as I was trying to figure out how can we preserve and leverage this space in ways that would make sense, uh, I'm I'm finding that um, yeah, the interest for some things uh, isn't going to work. And so if if we can't do it, what's the best and highest use uh, for for what we've got? Uh, I do have to agree with council member Baronamp that like my office is the coldest and the hottest building or hottest space in this building. And I don't want to spend what was the I I think it was almost a million bucks, $890,000 to revamp the HVAC system for something that already isn't meeting the needs of the community. Uh, >> well, the HVAC was revamped before we turned that from a community room into a workspace, right? Remember the timing on all of that? I would assume the 800 grand would fix those kinds of issues. Is that the intent of that or just to maintain current dysfunction? >> No, it is to there's kind of a multi-step process. I mean, the first would be you need to recommission the current the current system. So, get it back to the standard that it was designed for and then start to kind of study what the system is doing. Um, additionally, you know, heat pumps, replacing the existing ones because we're at the end of this useful life. Um, you know, doing changing up the thermostats and all the, you know, sensors because they're they're fighting each other because they're sometimes in the same, you know, areas where it's just not working properly. Um, so and then, you know, duct work, the layout of the duct work isn't proper. I do have to, you know, interject with that is that's a significant amount of work in a building. I mean, you have to tear open ceiling. >> So, I was going to say they what we had the advantage when we did and advantages of maybe an overuse was we weren't using that side of the building. >> Uh right now, in order for us to even do that work, we'd have to shut city hall down and we don't have anywhere to go, >> right? Uh, >> it would be very hard. >> We can't even rent a space because there's no rental spaces. So, we we'd be renting spaces in Maple Grove. >> Garages, too. >> I I got I got a room in my barn if you don't mind bats and other things. >> They only come out They only come out at night. So, I wanted to raise a point on context, too. So, >> the Weisetta school district is looking at building two elementary schools and a middle school going out for bonding between 600 million and a billion dollars next year. So, as we're looking at major capital improvements, uh there's probably going to be a lot of additional construction going on in the local area. So we may want to try to get in ahead of that as much as is possible and available to us. The other thing to be aware of is the tax implications of that bonding will be large for a significant portion of corporate uh if it's approved. And when you stack whatever this will do to our bonding on top of the >> school you're saying? >> Yeah. School bonding. >> The school bonding affect >> a lot of people not a lot of area. >> Yeah. But we should be aware of that as we're making our decisions and to the degree that we can sharpen our pencils and look at how do we maximize value and what we're planning to do. Uh I'm sure taxpayers will appreciate anything that we can do there. >> Uh it's not only it's not just out of the Rogers school district, Buffalo School District. They're all >> Rogers just built a new >> all and uh and we're not building a $600 million building. Thank God. >> Nor would we. >> Well, when Kevin gets his way, it could >> field, too. >> We We could We could pave all of our roads for Corkran for less than they're building an elementary >> elementary school. Anybody want to guess what they're estimating elementary school would cost? >> Just the elementary on that site they already own. 300 million, 2850, >> 100 million for elementary school. They're doing two of them. >> Okay. >> 200 million plus for the middle school >> and then they are adding kitchens to all the elementary schools that don't have them. >> They need to renovate the old elementary school >> and they're renovating some of those. And they're updating the high school, adding square footage of the high school. >> So, there's going to be a lot of construction. >> The Oprah Winfrey of Kitchen is over there. $30 million in >> kitchen a lunch kid >> and that's by no means a short >> but >> but we're definitely not proposing a $600 million >> we need to be aware >> and and I would also say unlike the way that a school district this has been in the long-term financial plan of the city uh for a very very long time been talking to the city about it for at least 10 years uh and that's part of the reason of the timing of this uh is because we've been talking about it and we're way Ideally, we probably should have done this in 2018, but instead the decision was made to take the community room and convert it. >> Y >> what are the odds of outside funding funding from the state or >> we were just talking about that? >> We will find every buck we can. Yeah, we'll go after it as much as I can with both the state and federal. >> And when you win the lottery, we don't have to worry about it. to win >> and and we were encouraged when they when they came to the the uh ribbon cutting at the water treatment facility, they they all encouraged us to chase those dollars and I thought they would be supportive. So, >> and as Jay mentioned, we had some creative ideas just for this meeting that might be >> might help. >> Might help. Yeah. >> One other thought, um if this evolves into a downtown area, >> not yet. parking will be at a premium and to the degree that other parcels have to allocate square footage to parking that will reduce the amount of taxable value created from those parcels. It might be worth considering is it worth having a municipal ramp or the option for a ramp on this site if we could charge other properties for use of that ramp in their parking calculation. Would that parking lot just become a ramp in the future if and when that became a need? One of the reasons with this design too is recognizing that uh if with expansion we have a greater need, we have space on this property in order to increase our our capabilities and capacity. >> So kind of like leaves us legos at pieces. You probably wouldn't want to look at that before that develops, but as if that or when that develops >> available >> depending on how it develops and >> design could accommodate that. >> Great job you guys. >> Appreciate it. >> Anything else? >> No. Yeah. Thank you for your time, sir. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Anything else from council? Any questions? That >> can I get a motion to adjurnn? >> I so move. Second. >> All those in favor say I.