This transcript is for a meeting of the **Hermantown Planning & Zoning Commission** held on January 21, 2021. Based on the context provided and the dialogue within the transcript, I have identified the speakers, including Commission members, City staff, and members of the public. [0:08] **Eric Johnson:** are you doing this evening buckley great yourself i'm wonderful [0:24] **Eric Johnson:** as you see me pushing buttons up here in the corner i'm attempting to record everybody so all the members can be seen versus just me i feel sorry for mary melody when she has to record these and as they stare at my face for an hour and a half so hour and a half well no no no yeah this is typically how long these meetings go now so uh you weren't aware mr geisler uh yeah those utility commission meetings were pretty long too or on occasion the three hour ones right till after ten [1:11] **Eric Johnson:** we've put a couple late ones hopefully uh this should be a little more streamlined here this evening so i don't know yeah there you go upper right corner i do see that shannon and um keep pushing on that upper right button and um yeah i'm not having great luck it's chill recording at least here so that's uh it it should give you an option for speaker view versus gallery view if you click on it once it should have a drop down that gives you either speaker viewer gallery [1:56] **Eric Johnson:** view and if you do that yeah that's what uh okay that was my understanding as well and they just it's not working for me yeah with the way it was explained to me it's like oh it's really simple it's easy that's me apparently well um unfortunately mary's gonna have to look at me the entire time again but uh mr peterson if you wanted to start the meeting i think we're in great shape [2:00] **Joe Peterson:** perfect we will do so good evening everybody we'd like to welcome you to the city of hermantown planning and zoning commission meeting for january 21st 2021 it is currently 703 in the evening we'll start off with a roll call of members this evening we've got myself uh mr colquist [2:43] **Corey Colquist:** here [2:44] **Buckley Simmons:** here [2:45] **Valerie Ouellette:** here [2:46] **Samuel Clark:** here [2:47] **Shannon Sweeney Jorgensen:** here [2:48] **Beth Wenzloff:** here [2:49] **Joe Peterson:** and counselor geisler second this evening we will look for a motion for the approval of the agenda this evening can i get a first on that [3:00] **Corey Colquist:** colquist with a motion thank you [3:02] **Joe Peterson:** can we get a second [3:03] **Shannon Sweeney Jorgensen:** jorgensen second [3:04] **Joe Peterson:** all in favor all right passes number three this evening is the approval of the minutes of the december 15 2020 regular meeting can we get a motion [3:31] **Corey Colquist:** [Unintelligible motion] [3:37] **Joe Peterson:** can we get a second please [3:38] **Valerie Ouellette:** second second baptist valerie thank you very much [3:41] **Joe Peterson:** all in favor aye hi motion passes number four this evening is public discussion uh i'm not seeing any is there anything added this evening eric [4:15] **Eric Johnson:** uh no there is not under public discussion [4:17] **Joe Peterson:** thank you very much we'll move on to 5-8 5a is an application by robert dolbar for a special use permit for filling and grading with a natural environment shoreline overlay zone located at 48 60 something hermantown road the property is located in our three residential zoning district uh eric what do you have for us on this [4:24] **Eric Johnson:** great thank you what i'd like to do is i'm going to share a couple graphics here for this evening uh can everyone see this this evening what i have in front of us the location map i can okay great so this property yes this is an existing seven and a half acre property that's located just to the east and a little bit to the south of the intersection of steubner road in hermanntown road this is an existing vacant lot it has been on the market for some time here there is existing wetland on this property as well as two previously unmapped tributaries to keene creek so what's before us this evening is a request for a special use permit to grade and fill in a shoreland area [5:43] **Eric Johnson:** and um apologize i'm trying to get to my other photos i'm not having that good luck so if i can ask you to look to your packets what the applicant is proposing is to create a driveway and a building pad for a single family home on this property here as i had mentioned previously there is this unmapped tributary that bisects the site in a couple different areas and but there is a building pad that's located between those two tributary areas likewise as i mentioned previously there is wetland on this property uh the proposed house pad and a portion of that driveway will be in that upland area the applicant is able to locate the proposed home a minimum of 150 feet from the tributaries which is a requirement per under the uh the shoreland area this is a natural shoreland area it's a 300 foot distance on both sides of the tributary creek so for the shoreland area map in your packet that green crosshatch area shows the full extent of that shoreland area so the the entirety of this property is within that shoreland area so thus any sort of grading filling activities or building activities will require this special use permit this evening the applicant will have to [7:14] **Eric Johnson:** have a wetland delineation to verify the extents of the wetland on this property uh right now we have national wetland inventory so we do know there are wetlands on the property but the delineation will be able to first happen in mid-may at that point that's when the growing season and the the soils are able to be checked out at that point so um at that point the applicant would work with the city of hermantown as well as a technical evaluation panel for the delineation of this property as well as any impacts associated with this uh grading and filling within that area since this is in a shoreland area any wetland disturbance is limited to 400 square feet after that the applicant would have to purchase wetland credits for any sort of wetland impacts that he would have on the property but as i mentioned previously what the applicant is looking for is the construction of a driveway in a single-family home within this property uh it meets the requirements as far as the setbacks from the tributary and there are requirements that any grading or disturbance tries to keep that as a minimum it limits how much cutting of trees can happen on this property and the amount of time that soil can remain in a uncovered state that concludes my report this evening i do know that the applicant has joined us as well if there's any other questions that the commission may have from myself or the applicant [8:46] **Joe Peterson:** thank you very much eric i appreciate that is the applicant robert with us this evening [8:49] **Robert Doblar:** oh yes i am on thank you sorry i joined a couple minutes late [8:55] **Joe Peterson:** it's okay thank you my name is joe peterson um do you have anything you'd like to add to eric's report this evening [9:01] **Robert Doblar:** um i i i guess not no i think eric laid it out very well there you have that piece of land there um i'm very excited to uh right now i live actually in duluth just on piedmont a little bit so i'm excited to get into the hermantown area my wife and i were um looking in looking like quite a few different lots not a lot of availability out there and we know we're we were jumping through quite a few hoops um trying to get into this land but uh when we when we reviewed it all working with eric a lot and the realtor and everything it seemed like there was uh it was going to be a possible possibility for us so that's uh we know this is just step one of this long process here [9:32] **Joe Peterson:** thank you very much uh we're gonna open it up for commission members to ask any questions of either the applicant or of eric this evening does any of the commission members have any questions [9:45] **Valerie Ouellette:** um this is valerie i actually drove past where i figured this property is and just curious how big are these tributaries i didn't see anything but versus snow and all they probably froze and i'm just curious are we talking a couple feet are we talking six feet do you have any feel for that [10:18] **Eric Johnson:** yeah or maybe that's eric's question sorry i'm not sure but uh well i can start that then robert if you'd like to add in because you've been having some discussions with the dnr on this as well um look at the uh the tributary where it um is on the western side of the property that's probably about the widest portion that it is and even that is not overly wide but there's an existing culvert that runs underneath hermantown road uh these tributaries we've been seeing um range anywhere from you know one to five feet really in width and the majority of them are much you know or more in the two you know two to three foot range and that's that's why they had not shown up on previous mapping that they're generally discovered as sites come up for development that way as opposed to being previously mapped so for the most part these these tributaries are um much narrower in in with and robert do you want to add anything further in your discussions with the dnr on this as well [11:04] **Robert Doblar:** yep i have had a couple emails back and forth to the dnr we're going to have to get them out there to actually map that tributary that's been on their list and but we'll have to get that done sooner than they had they had wanted to do it i think in 2022 they had said but i'll get them out there in 2021 here hopefully as early as possible so uh my building plans can continue but they'll map that out and and i have watched it a few times it does certainly vary in length um as you as you especially in the front of the property which is my main concern of course um and you know it's anywhere from six to twelve inches deep and then you know anywhere from you know it seems anywhere from two to six feet wide as it you know meanders around [11:50] **Valerie Ouellette:** okay thank you thank you for that [11:54] **Joe Peterson:** any other questions or comments for eric or the applicant this evening commission members [12:00] **Shannon Sweeney Jorgensen:** i do have another question so based on the shoreland area map the it looks like the entire site is actually technically within shoreland area and then when i look at the proposed site plan what we have drawn in as far as a driveway i just want to make sure that when we're thinking about this or we're looking at that this that proposed driveway is that the uh the route that is the minimal impact for the driveway is that still in flux or open to adaptation based on what we find out from the dnr and potentially from other sources what's what's the full story on the driveway because that appears to be the thing that will impact um wetlands or shoreland area the most [12:35] **Eric Johnson:** yeah so we look at um any sort of wetland crossings or impacts is uh the technical evaluation panel recommends that we we have the least amount of wetland impacts associated with this uh the applicant where he has shown this driveway located in the east portion of the property that appears at least for national wetland inventory that there is some upland area located in that portion of the site so um what he has shown is really a good example of how to minimize wetland impacts associated with the site that he's uh he's trying to have his crossing at the narrowest point where he's possible in utilizing the upland area both along germantown road as well as in the uh the building pad and that southerly portion of the driveway so uh he's done a very nice sight layout here to uh to try to minimize his impacts as best as possible [14:04] **Shannon Sweeney Jorgensen:** right fantastic i just want to make sure that that's in our records that we've discussed that thank you very much [14:08] **Joe Peterson:** commission members any other questions [14:11] **John Geissler:** uh mr peterson this is john um i'm assuming eric this will be served by uh city sewer and water [14:21] **Eric Johnson:** yes it would be [14:22] **John Geissler:** okay thank you [14:23] **Joe Peterson:** eric i'm fairly familiar with this site uh it seems to be pretty low in the front there i mean i'm assuming he's got to do all the same hoops as any other neighborhood there they've got to go through wetland deliation and get everything else all the ducks in a row correct [14:44] **Eric Johnson:** yes that is correct so this is essentially the first part of at least this is the um the city approval process but he will have to go through the wetland delineation as well as the technical evaluation panel and is that that just cannot happen till may when the growing season starts off so the city will not issue any building permits until that is that has been rectified at that point [15:06] **Joe Peterson:** okay commission members any other questions before we open it up for a public hearing not hearing any we will open it up for a public hearing at 7 16. is there anybody out there that would like to speak on this application for a special use permit this evening [15:26] **Scott Watishak:** mr peterson this is scott watishak [15:29] **Joe Peterson:** good evening scott how can we help you this evening [15:32] **Scott Watishak:** um the only question i have being a property owner adjacent to this property is when wetlands or uh shorelands are are filled how how are the adjacent properties taken into consideration as far as how they might be altered [15:52] **Joe Peterson:** it's a wonderful question perhaps eric could give us a little insight into that [15:59] **Eric Johnson:** sure what happens is when there's ever uh these crossings of uh wetlands particularly on driveways is there are the requirements that there are culverts placed within that driveway area you know whether it's depending on the the distance of the crossing the the goal of that is to maintain the water flow that exists on that property so we're not cutting off any of these wetlands and essentially creating it you know creating a dam on one side and draining it on the other so that is the always the requirement of the technical evaluation panel that these culverts are installed and sized properly so we can still keep the same hydrologic flow uh associated with the wall at land and once again that not create damning situations that way [16:45] **Joe Peterson:** thank you very much any other questions mr otisha [16:48] **Scott Watishak:** no sir thank you for joining us this evening [16:51] **Joe Peterson:** is anybody else out there for any questions on 5a this evening eric do we have anybody else in the waiting room [16:58] **Eric Johnson:** uh gentlemen uh mark w has joined us this evening i'm not quite sure if he was on for this particular item here or not but he's the uh the only new person who's come in since we've started [17:10] **Joe Peterson:** gotcha once again is there anybody that would like to speak on 5a this evening [17:32] **Valerie Ouellette:** um this is valerie ouellette um mr dublar um we want to welcome you to hermantown and hopefully this will be a as painless as possible to get you on your property and building your new home thank you much [17:47] **Robert Doblar:** thank you very much valerie and scott i look forward to meeting you eventually likewise robert [18:03] **Joe Peterson:** okay any other questions or comments this evening we will close the public hearing at 7 18 commission members we will look for a motion on 5 aids an application by robert doblar for a special use permit for filling and grading within a natural environment shoreline overlay zone [18:25] **Shannon Sweeney Jorgensen:** [Motion to approve] jargon thank you for that [18:28] **Joe Peterson:** can we get a second [18:29] **Beth Wenzloff:** second what's up thank you very much [18:31] **Joe Peterson:** all in favor aye aye aye aye anybody opposed not hearing any motion passes thank you very much for that moving on to 5b it's an application by the city of hermantown for a special use permit for the installation of a bridge structure within a natural environment shoreline overlay zone located at 260 west of haynes road and swann lake road intersection the property is located in a blm district which is business and light manufacturing eric what do you have on this one this evening [19:05] **Eric Johnson:** well great thank you again mr chair uh this is an application actually by the city along with the st louis county uh the city in st louis county have been looking at this bridge uh which is currently classified as functionally obsolete uh based on october 9 2018 bridge inspection report when these uh reports indicate that bridges are obsolete failing etc the city generally takes actions to work on the replacement of these structures in this case this is a joint project between the city of hermantown as well as st louis county to handle this bridge replacement here the wetland delineation has already been conducted on this property this site would actually fall under the roadway improvement section of the wetland impacts and therefore it um would already receive the approval for any wetland work that would be done essentially what's this being proposed is the removal of the existing bridge uh the uh installation of some new uh supports and then the construction of this uh new bridge that would be happening that's anticipated to be happening either in um 2021 or possibly uh early 2022 depending on the building season here this is vacant property all around this this is miller creek that this bridge crosses over and um the city has done a couple of these other projects where we've been involved either in midway river or keene creek and we will continue on that sort of work that we've established in the past for the protection the natural environments whether it's the flowing of the water or the wetlands to uh minimize or avoid any impacts associated with it but as part of this we are required to issue a special use permit as well and uh give the public an opportunity to speak to this if there's any concerns associated with it [21:18] **Joe Peterson:** thank you very much for that eric commission members any questions for eric on 5b this evening not hearing any we will open up the floor at 7 22 for a public hearing is there anybody out there that would like to speak on this 5b application by the city of hermantown this evening is anybody in the waiting room [21:50] **Eric Johnson:** no there's not [21:51] **Joe Peterson:** thank you for that we will close the public hearing at 7 22 and go back to commission members any questions for eric on this this evening not hearing any i look for a motion on 5b which is an application by the city of hermantown for a special use permit [22:08] **Samuel Clark:** sam motion to approve agenda item 5b as stated thank you [22:12] **Joe Peterson:** can we get a second [22:15] **Valerie Ouellette:** this is valerie second bet thank you very much [22:18] **Joe Peterson:** all in favor hi hi hi hi anybody opposed not hearing a the motion passes thank you very much for that number six this evening is continuing business uh eric do you have anything that's not on the list [22:36] **Eric Johnson:** uh no but i will add a couple under new business when we reach that point [22:40] **Joe Peterson:** perfect well we're there now new business number seven [22:45] **Eric Johnson:** and this is just a quick update for everyone obviously first of all as a staff person i'd like to welcome all of our new members and mr geisler again here for joining us we really appreciate it and having a full contingent of people on the um planning and zoning um some of you may have heard that the city back in december we enacted a six-month moratorium on certain planned unit developments of projects that were greater than three units per acre in size the city has engaged the arrowhead regional development commission or otherwise known as the airdc to help us with this study that is ongoing right now and as part of this study the city is going to be sending out a survey to residents business owners developers realtors interested parties associated with this uh to gather some of their thoughts comments associated with uh planned unit developments and development in general within the city i anticipate that uh this this questionnaire is going to be going out sometime next week we've identified 50 different potential stakeholders once again either city council staff png members uh public etc that this will be going to uh there will be two public hearings associated with this uh at one of our later dates as far as planning and zoning we will have this uh potentially in april or may and then this will also go to uh the city council for the believe it'll be their second meeting in june and so i just wanted to give the uh plenty of zoning members uh basically a heads up that they'll be seeing this survey coming through to their email addresses uh probably sometime in the next seven to ten days here we're going to allow about two weeks to get these comments back and then start working at the ardc and compiling these comments and moving forward with this study any questions on that or the city's process i'd be happy to answer those [25:05] **Valerie Ouellette:** i'm just curious if you're holding up any projects due to this [25:09] **Eric Johnson:** the um we'd had the uh proposal backed by james tolego in october uh he knew that this was coming and he understands it and um is his hope is that uh this will help guide development for the city and the plan development aspect of it he is familiar with the timelines and he understands the city's rationale behind this as far as any other developments uh there's been nothing of a pud at least to this scale in the works we will be seeing a small planned unit development for three twin home units coming forward in the february meeting but that falls under that does not meet the thresholds for the moratorium so that is something that's able to move forward with this thank you for the information [25:50] **Eric Johnson:** and then uh secondly uh especially since we have two new members here this evening uh i'll be sharing in february uh for lack of better words it's almost like an excel spreadsheet it talks about the um the different applications that the planning and zoning traditionally sees and the the actions of both the planning and zoning as well as city council so i will be sharing that at the next meeting just to um to help all the members uh understand you know once again the different type of applications we get in the applications that the planning and zoning is specifically uh set up for for the approvals and then the type of applications that fall into the recommendations projects are applications that phone do they fall under the recommendations then ultimately go to the city council for um their review in action at that point so i will be sharing that at the february meeting just as um for our new people and then there's refresher for our current members here as well thank you again moving on to number eight communication [26:51] **Samuel Clark:** sorry sam clark just one quick question for eric just for clarification uh you said the survey is going out is it going up to 50 people or is this more of a mass mailing [27:03] **Eric Johnson:** no we're doing it to uh 50 people at this point but we have uh over 35 percent of those are residents so we wanted to uh get a good cross section of it that way uh we will have the ability to um post this in the hermanntown star as well and uh to try to get some additional comment that way but also we will have the public hearings associated with this [27:26] **Samuel Clark:** okay and i think you said there was two two public hearings [27:30] **Eric Johnson:** yes that's correct [27:31] **Samuel Clark:** so just out of curiosity when you have of the city of hermantown how do you choose which 50 people [27:38] **Eric Johnson:** the um what we've done is we looked at uh realtors that uh traditionally been active in this area particularly more the residential based realtors we have looked at some of the people who have been coming forward to these planning and zoning meetings particularly some of these past applications i.e the arbors and the pillars projects and uh tapping into that group as uh is as a source of this questionnaire here as well and then um uh looking at and speaking to local developers here as well to get their thoughts on it so i'm trying to get a good cross-section of people involved with this this is just specifically relating to the r3 zoning district it's not any of the other residentially zoned districts but i would welcome any um any other um if you have any other people that you think this would be beneficial to to send this out to and i'd be happy to share that list of the 50 that people we've identified the date [28:44] **Samuel Clark:** this is just more for uh i think it's interesting if you could share the list i think that'd be awesome [28:51] **Eric Johnson:** sure yeah i'll be happy to thanks eric [28:55] **Samuel Clark:** well i just want to say too uh i know in the past i think the first applicant uh gen item 5a i think that was a good example of eric working really well with the uh applicants for these types of things i've said it before i know from experience that not every city works as well uh with people that want to develop or or do business in germantown so i think that's awesome [29:38] **Joe Peterson:** perfect thank you very much for that uh not seeing any communications uh we'll move on to number nine which is commission member reports uh nothing from myself mr colquist [29:50] **Corey Colquist:** uh no report but i'd like to welcome the two new uh commission members uh as joe said my name is corey colquist i've been on the planning and zoning committee now for i think three years uh and then i work at skyline lane so welcome [29:55] **Joe Peterson:** perfect buckley simmons anything this evening [29:56] **Buckley Simmons:** no reports but thanks for the welcomes thanks for joining us [30:00] **Valerie Ouellette:** valerie arlett no report would like to also welcome you it's uh it's a nice group we get a lot accomplished here [30:10] **Samuel Clark:** samuel clark no report [30:13] **Shannon Sweeney Jorgensen:** shannon sweeney jorgensen hillary park but again as the previously newest member of this commission um i would like to welcome both of you um i'm no longer the new girl on the block so yay um but i'm really excited to have you guys on board um this commission is i think really making positive moves for the city of hermantown and i appreciate the additional input so thank you for joining us [30:43] **Beth Wenzloff:** and beth winslow no report obviously but i'm glad to be a part of it been in hermantown now for about 20 years and excited to be part of the the commission [30:57] **Joe Peterson:** thank you for joining us as well and counselor geisler anything this evening welcome back [31:02] **John Geissler:** well thank you you know i wouldn't say aunt i would not say something so um yeah for those of you who don't know me i was on the planet zoning commission from 2000. i had to write this down and i'm thinking myself wow how can that be from 2000 2008 uh and then i was elected to city council in 2009 and i was the planning and zoning liaison from 2009 from 2016. so if you were on board earlier i said to joe it's like a bad cold and you can't get rid of me so i think joe's the only member four years ago when i was uh back then the liaison i've been serving on the utility commission as the liaison for the past four years and the mayor thought it might be good if i got back to the planning and zoning commission to keep all of you guys in line so um we had the one uh vacancy uh and we had two candidates um and we interviewed both and then um lo and behold tracy had to resign uh last week late in the week and we thought well we had two great candidates and we thought uh we'll we'll get them both on board so welcome to buckley and to beth and thank you for volunteering to you two newbies and then uh to the rest of you too i know it's uh it's kind of nice on a cold winter night to stay home and do this but uh you know we're gonna get back to normal and you're gonna have to venture out on these cold winter nights but yeah thanks for serving and and yeah it is an important job and you know and and i appreciate everybody taking it serious and and uh you know uh it's mr clark knows that uh you know it can be it can what what we do can make a difference and what the public does can make a difference because it uh you know we have to listen to everything and then when uh you know the public comes around to speak and um you know so it does make a difference and it's uh well appreciated by everybody so thank you and i think that's it [33:04] **Joe Peterson:** thank you for that mr geisler i'm not sure how long i've been doing this i don't even remember actually but we need to get back to the days we used to do site surveys remember that [33:14] **John Geissler:** yes yeah site surveys that's fun [33:17] **Eric Johnson:** and we'll be happy to keep doing those here in the future as well so uh yeah but it just won't be more since we've done that [33:26] **Joe Peterson:** yeah and i just want to give a shout out to shannon i've i've loved seeing your background and seeing your two dogs back there so uh [33:33] **Shannon Sweeney Jorgensen:** i was gonna comment so we technically we have four dogs but um two relatively new additions to our family and so i want to apologize for my co-workers in the background who uh have decided that tonight they really need to play normally i'm not the only one at the house but tonight i'm home alone and so they're all right here enjoying uh the meeting so i apologize for the distraction [33:57] **John Geissler:** our new city council member has a about a 10 month old baby and the uh the baby's been joining him in the uh in the council meetings as well because i think his wife is out working so uh dogs babies you know we can we can manage [34:14] **Shannon Sweeney Jorgensen:** yeah they're they're busy they're five months old and they are busy dogs [34:20] **Joe Peterson:** perfect uh anything else this evening from anybody it's 7 35 p.m we're gonna look for a motion to adjourn the meeting [34:33] **Samuel Clark:** now moved [34:36] **Joe Peterson:** can i get a second [34:37] **Corey Colquist:** col quest with a second thank you very much [34:39] **Joe Peterson:** all in favor hi aye hi the meeting is adjourned at 7 35 pm thank you very much everybody i can't wait until i can see everybody in person again and back to tuesday next month yes [35:01] **Eric Johnson:** uh no unfortunately not you know thursday next month too we've got the uh we've got the president's holiday yep so i guess maybe as i have everybody here uh is there a preference for either a wednesday or thursday night meeting or even if we pull it forward a week if tuesdays generally work better for people [35:21] **Joe Peterson:** doesn't matter to me wednesday or thursday is fine for me [35:25] **Valerie Ouellette:** that week the 17th is ash wednesday if that matters [35:32] **Eric Johnson:** maybe we'll um let's go on the 18th and that thursday at seven o'clock [35:38] **Joe Peterson:** okay let's do that skyline in person i like it trains for everyone after we just we just have to socially distance no big deal we have plenty of space all right have a good night everyone [35:55] **Eric Johnson:** okay thank you appreciate it everybody bye