just remind the commissioners to move your microp the commissiono move your microphones up close so everyone can hear you. Okay. It is 7 p.m. Thank you all for joining us. This evening at our July 15th Planning and Zoning Commission meeting. If 7:00, if you would please rise and join me in the Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. So we'll start withtake action on it, though, we have one action on it, though, we hae one person wishing to speak. So if you want to go ahead and read the consent agenda, and then we'll call the speaker consent agenda. The consent agenda will be acted upon in one motion and contains items which are routine and typically noncontroversial. Items may beenda for individual consideration by commissioners or staff. Okay. And we have, Mr. Law wishes to speak on an item if you want to. It's the first. It's on on. Thes a purpose statement at the bottom of the site plan. The revised site plan. That's part of item H tonight. It says that the revised site plan is for the demolition and replacement of the existing ball field restroom building. Additional 3581ft■!S f open storage areas, adding the proposed five foot sidewalk along Alma Road, adding the fueling station at the maintenance facility, and other related improvements. table, that's also on the site plan, it says that the proposed open storage is 16,510ft■!S, not the 3581 that's listed in the purpose statement the purpose statement. It says that there's existing 6120ft■!S. I believe that you all should accurate data on this plan before you approve the site plan. If you look at PD 329 Community Centerthat's what it's titled in the PD language. It says, what you do, you get a listf what's allowed there and the site plan data summary, table says park playground and public service yard service center. Per the PD. We don't know what a service center is because service center is not defined in our zoning ordinance at all. It's also not listed as a use in article 14. This plan, moving to a different topic now shows a below ground fuel storage tank within the 100 year floodplain, putting fuel, puttis below ground in 100 year floodplain does not seem wise to me. This plan, like most others that you all approve, doesn't meet the landscape ordinance. Staff will likely tell you that this would be addressed in the rewrite that the city is spending $1 million on. I bring this up not because the ordinance doesn't need he becaue ordinance doesn't need help, but because if we don't follow the current ordinance and we don't have a site site plan ins any my rewriting it in addition to the open storage apparent miscalculation, there are 17 parking spots called out as 12ft by 60ft and 21 parking spaces th are 12ft by 30ft. You don't need parking spaces that big unless you're using parking a truck. I'm sorry. Truck, trailer and equipment combination, which would be additional open storage per the definitidditional open e per the definition of open storage. Let's pretend for a moment that some of you believe that a service center and a public service yard are intended to be the same thing in this hypothetical situation, you all would have found that you can have a public service yard in almost every zoning district. But if we assume that I would also assume that you found where note 50 exists in every area on the use chart in article 14, note 50 says seconds allowed by right as an accessory use to a park or playground if located a minimum of 150ft from a residential property line and screened from view from adjacent properties. It's not screened from adjacent properties. Lastly, in article eight, accessory use says that it's clearly subordinate to and functionally related to. I don't know if a six acre if a six acrd facility with underground storage facilities and approximately 20,000ft■!S of spe is of baseball fields. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Law. Okay. I'm happy to entertain I'm happy to entertain a motion on the consent agenda. Or if we have questions or anything, the staff would be available to answ We approve the consent agenda as presented. I have a motion by Commissioner Ratliff with a second by Commissioner Brounoff to approve the consent agenda as presented. Please as presented. Please vote. One. Two. Three. Four. Four. In favo. Oppose two. Consent agenda carries. Let's move to item one. Public hearing items, unless instructed otherwise by the chair speakers will have will be called in order. be cal. Registrations are received. Applicants are limited to a total of 15 minutes of preservation time, with a five minute limited to 30s 30 total minutes of testimony time, with three minutes assigned per speaker. The presiding officer may modify these times as deemed necessary. Administrative consideration items must be approved if they meet city development regulations. Legislative consideration items are more discretionary except as constrained by legal considerations. Agendatem number one. Public hearing. Preliminary Replat and revised site plan. Bob Woodruff Park additions. Block additions. Block a lot one R and two playground. Park slash playground on two lots at the nt corner of Park Boulevard and Spring Creek Parkway and Spring Creek Parkway, so an agricultural estate development. Single family resident Dash nine and single family resident attached and located within the Park Overlay District. The applicant is City of Plano and this is for administrative consideration. Good evening sir. Good evening commissioners. My name is Donna Sepulvado, lead planner with the planning Department. The preliminary replat is recommended for approval, subject to additions and or alterations to the engineering plans as required by the Engineering Department. And the revised site plan is recommended for approval as submitted. Happy to answer any questions. Thank you. Any questions for staff on this? Thank you very much. I'll open the public hearing. Do we have any speakers on this item? There are no registered speakers. Thank you. I'll close the public hearing, confine discussion to the commission I move, we approve agenda item number one as recommended by staff. I have a motion by Commissioner Bronsky with a second by Commissioner Tang to approve item one as recommended by staff. Please vote. That item carries one, two. Oh, wait a minute. I just realized something. 12345. Six. Seven. Are you voting over there? Yes Okay, that vote carries 7 to 0. And just confirming that tonight we don't confirming that tonight we don't have Commissioner Olli with us. He's currently on a plane somewhere, did I was I said for, but I think it was five. So just to correct the vote, it favor ao abstentions. All right, let's move on to item two. A on to itm number two, Mr. Kerry. Yes Public hearing, preliminary pla. Parker road, early childhood school block a lot. One, public school on one lot on 13.0 acres located at the northeast corner of Parker Road and Sanortheast r of Parker Road and San Gabriel Drive. So in planned development, 320 estate development. The applicant is Plano Independent School District and this is for administrative consideration. Good evening, commissioners Kimh the planning Department. Here's a locator. And then here's a preliminary Replat preliminary replat is recommended for approval, subject to additions and or alterations to the engineering plans. Subject as required by the Engineering Department and the revised site approval. I'm available for questions. Thank you. Any questions for staff on this item? Mr. Kerry, I have two, microphone please. Thank you. Is that it, the my first question is the additional kitchen and cafeteria space. Do you know the reason that they're needing t add that I wasn't told the exact reason, but I just was told that they needed more space. Okay. My more important question might be is, what effect we think that is is going to have on traffic flow in that area. I don't think that it would necessarily impact that it would necessarily impact it because it's not adding additional classrooms. So with additional classrooms, it might encourage more students to be enrolled at the school. But I think with the just the additional kitchen and cafeteria space, I think it would may not be as big of an impact. Yeah, I guess you know, my assumption was that the additional kitchen might be used to serve additional students and necessary therefore. And then my follow up question to the traffic issues. But we have no reason to believe they're adding students. Is that true? I can't confirm that at this time. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Which school is this? So this is the one on. Yeah. What what's the name? It escapes me. I'm just wondering if this was to your point, Mr. Kerry. You know, with the proposed realignment, I'm just wondering if I'm sure the schoo, if it's below capacity, it would ju bring it to capacity, which would have been originally approved for based on student count. So. Okay. Very good, other questions for staff on this item. Okay. Thank you very much. I'll open the public hearing. We have any speakers on this item there are no registered speakers. All right. Thank you. I will close the public hearing, confine discussion to the commission I move we approve agenda item number two as recommended by staff. Thank you. I have a motion by Commissioner Bronsky. It's good to have you back at the mic, sir. And second, by Commissioner Brounoff, please vote. 1234567. That vote carries 7 to 0. Item three. Agenda Item number three a Replat Hinckley Addition block a lot two. Daycare center located or daycare center on one lot on 1.8 acres. Located on the south side of Los Rios Boulevard, 700ft east of Flintstone Drive. Zone plan development 320 estate development with specific use permit number 598 for daycare center. The applicant is V.K. Smith Realty, LLC, my name is George., my name is George. I'm a my name is Jordan Kirby, a senior planner in the planning department, so this is a replat request for a property on Los Rios. The purpo of the replat would be to abandon a utility easement. The applicant is requesting to table this replat to the August 5th meeting. The purpose of that tabling is to allow additional time to work on a revised concept plan for that property to the north, that pperty would be, accepting the relocated easement. So abandoning the easement on this property, moving it to the property to the north. So both of those plans would be on the August 5th meeting, if this one is tabled. Thank you. Questions for staff on this item. Mr. Bronsky, do you believe the tabling to the August 5th meeting will give you enough time to accomplish that? Yes. We have communicated to the applicant that, we would expect that that revised concept plan to be finished per our submittal deadlines for that meeting. They selectedhe August 5th meeting themselves. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions, Mr. Bruno? Thank you. Mr. Chairman. Would tabling item three A require us to also table three B. No three B can be moved forward independently okay. Thank you Mr. Commissioner Tong. Yes. Do the two properties this 13A and the property north of it belong to the same owner. Do you know, because you're moving the utility easement to the north property, right. So if if you remember, last year there was a zoning case for that property to the north to rezone it to single family homes. And part of that was they were taking part of the property that was originally the daycare. I believe they are separate owners at this point or they're in contract. One of the two, but it will eventually be two separate owners and they're already under agreement to yes, they're cooperating together on this. Okay Thank you. Thank you. Good question. Any other questions? Okay. Thank you. I will open the public hearing, I see that we have, applicants here. I don't know if they want to make a presentation or just confirm the request to table. Sure 21 South Main Street, Dallas, Texas, I'm here to answer any questions. We are confirming. One. They are separate ownerships. And two, we are requesting to table that to the next meeting. Okay? And we'll be able to meet their deadlines. Thank you. Any I'm assuming there's no questions for the applicant. All right. I'll close the public hearing, Commission agenda item three a to the August 5th, 2024. P and Z the August 5th, 2024. P and Z meeting as recommended by staff. Thank you. Motion by Commissioner Bronsky second by Commissioner Tang to table item three A to August 5th. Please vote. That item carries 7 to 0, before we go to three B, is it staff's recommendation to consider them separately? Yes. Okay. Very good. Let's go to three B agenda item number three B public hearing revised site plan Hinckley addition block A lot one lot on 1.8 acres located on the south side of Los Rios Boulevard, 700ft east of Flintstone Drive. Zoned planned development 320 East State development with specific use permit number specific use permit number 598 for daycare center. The applicant is V.K. Smith Realty and this is. All right. So this is that same property again but a revised site plan. The purpose of the revised site plan is to show the location of several detached accessory to note, variance requests. Approval of the site plan is required before the Board of Adjustment can take action on the requested variances. Staff recommend approval of the site plan subject to the Boardf Adjustment, granting five variances as listed on this screen and in your packet. Thank you. Any questionsstions for st, Mr. Ratliff? Just to clarify, the detached accessory you said buildings. The report says structures we're talking about shade canopies right. There is one shade canopy on the north side of the property. There is a, a covered patio on the south side that is not attached to the building. And there is a shed behind the building, that's a shed. So that one's fully enclosed in. It's a accessory building. Okay. I want to make sure I knew what we were approving. So two of them are just shade structures. And the third one is indeed a the third one is a shed. Correct. Actual four walled building. Four wall on a slab foundation. Okay. Thank you. Other questions? Mr. Question on what we're doing here. I'm just trying to understand the process between our approval and the Board of Adjustment. Approval because we're approving the site plan subject to the, approval by the Board of Adjustment on all the variances. Right. What if they do not approve the variance, is our approval on the site plan basically voided or. What's the process on that? That's correct. If the Board of Adjustment does not grant the variance requests, then the, if the motion made tonight is to approve the site plan subject to, the Board of adjustment, if it doesn't meet that condition of subject two, then the approval is void. And, the applicant would be able to come back to the Planning and Zoning Commission with a new revised site plan, for approval without the variance requests, would thered there be a processr them to go to the Board of Adjustment first before we do the site plan approval? So unfortunately, in our zoning ordinance, the, and I believe in the bylaws of the board of Adjustment, the process laid out is they need to have a pla firsd Zoning commission before we can bring the petition forward to the Board of Adjustment. Gotcha. Thank you. And that's also state case law. So we have to do that. Thank you. Mr. Bruno. Thank you, if the daycare center had not ce home development to the north, would, approval of variances have been necessary? So there's a slight history on this property. When this concept plan originally came through, the structures there did not exist that are in question that need the variances, the applicant of the daycare centerr expressed willingness to allow the sewer line and utilities to go through their property. It was only after that fact that the structures were built and were, made this non-compliant. So now the property relocate the onto the single family property. If that helps helps. I'm sorry,e you talking about a you talkings and sheds and canopies there? The structures are located both in the setback and on top of a utility easement. Okay. So the variances are from the setbacks. The Replat is to relocate the easement. Okay. And the items that are in in the setback were built after the property was ceded to the development on the north after the plans were approved. Yes. Okay. Thank you. Just for the, the structure on the north side of the property, the structure on the south side of the property was constructed by the previous owners. Prior to the subdivision that was approved last year, I'm sorry, were these items that had been in existence in another location on the property that had to be moved because of the single sine family development to the north? I don't believe so, no. All right, Mr. Kerry, to quote Commissioner Ratliff, just to make sure I know what I'm voting for. So this, this shows a, a zero from 30ft to 0ft for the south side. So how will that affect the adjacent property at ze adjacent property at zero feet? I just want to make sure I understand what we're talking about. It's not obvious to me and maybe it should be. I think that is the that consideration is the purview of the Board of Adjustments, and that's what they will be considering with whether or not to grant that variance. What you're being asked to approve is only if the Board of Adjustment says it's okay. Will this plan be compliant? Okaythat mean wheo feet? I mean, what will it be up against? They're right up along the property line. ah. So what's going to be we don't know what's going to be to the south yet. Is that accurate. So the South has already been develope. It's a church that's on the south property. The Ed district that the school is located in esn't allow solid fencing. So it's currently, the patio is up against a wrought iron fence. So this already exists, right? Correct. And the church is in concert with this. They're okay with it. Do we know, the church has not been directly contacted. They would have received the notice have received the notice for the replat. And when we noticed for the Board of Adjustments last week, they will have received the notice of the Boa. Meeting with a list of the variances being requested. Okay Thank you. Mr. Bronsky, I just wanted to make sure I understood. I thought you understood. I thought you said that the, variances there were three of them or five. So there's five, they are condensed on this slide because are and my possibly in your packet as well. Three of the variances are to the same subsection of the ordinance, but for three different structures on the property that all require a different v all require a different variance to that subsection. So one for the main building, one for a detached shade structure on the north side and one for a detached pat. Okay, so although they're only listed as three, there a listed as three, there are five. Yes. Together. Yes. The first, has three within it. Okay. I just want to make sure we were having all that labeled co, Mr. Rockaby. Anyone else? No Okay. Everyone else had a turn. I just want to make sure I don't. Over. Okay. Very good. No more questions. Thank you. I will open the public hearing and, I guess if the applicant wants applicant wants to come forward, we can see if they have any or any questions that we want to ask you have anything you'd like to add based on the conversation bn you just heard? Yeah, there you go again. Turn Robertson, 21 South Main Street, Dallas, Texas, so this all various thinn with the property. That easement that we're easement that we're proposing to change go to the north property is, my client who owns that residential property. They're willing to have the entire easement on their property, they're one of the issues that the ne of the issues that the school has amongst our school with that shade structure on the side property that's going to be abutting residentiae children located in the school, the age group where they're at in the school. That would be so far away frothe playground equipment. The playground equipment has to be shaded. There's nowhere else on the site to put this equipment. From my understanding, the school wato y understanding, the school was under the impression that everything was permitted as part of the building. Original building permit. We found I done they. The person who built the structure knew there was an easement there. And so now we're coming back and we're coming back and having to address this and fix it. So one of the solutions working with staff quite fervently is moving that easement onto the single family residential, which they can go ahead and do and take care of. There'stility lines right now, the shed structure in the very rear of the property wants to go is built before the Montessori school is built befe Montessori school is in place. It's against The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints property right there. That's the church that's next to the monastery school, it won't have any kind of negative impact on the surrounding , additionally the dumpster closure, we didn't find that out until later on. We didn't know there was a closure, which I understand is not, you know, there's no excuse for that. But, when they've gone through so we're willing we're trying to come into compliance. We're trying to do what's right. There are certain standards for the playground equipment, the shad structures that we have to follow per standards for these children. And due to the classroom sizes, their classroom locations and how far they have to walk to the playground equipment. So we're kind of stuck in a hard place, and we're trying to resolve that through ot trying to resolve that through other matters. And once again, the single family owner, the single family properties there that developer and the school are in consensus with tryingmaks possible. I can answer any questions at this time. Thank youestions at this time. Thank you. Questions. Mr. Kerry, you mentioned building permits. So these buildings that are there, they they have been permitted. No, we found out later on once I camell this, we found out that the shed just recently was never permitted. When we submitted the application, we found out about the shed, and I believe it was the shade structure instructurek were never permitted. Originally, we just didn't know that, so we're going through. We'll obtain all the permits necessary, make suree. So you're process of that now is that. Oh, we can't do anything until this process is done. But that will be our next step is we can't apply for a building permit until the site plan is approved, until the variances are approved. Okay. Thank you. Anyone else? Mr. Bronsky? The buildings that haven't been permitted that they're not being used for currently. I, I can answer that. I would assume the children are playing under the shade playing under the shade structures, and playing on the playgrounds since the school is open. Well, currently not right now, but during the school year. So the, the, the facilities that haven't gone through the permitting process, they do they without an occupancy permit. From my understanding, they are correct. And that shed was done previous to this property owner. So I don't think the current property owner even knew about the shed not being permitted. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions? Quick question of the age of the structures. Do you know h long have they been there? Just the one that were, the one that's abutting the single family residential on the north side of the property, I believe it's a couple of months to a year old, I'm trying to ask about the accessory building there. I don't have the answer to that. I don't know how old that shed is. That's on the very back of the property that's abutting the church. Okay. I believe it was before the Montessori school owned the property. So it could be many years now. I sorry, I don't have that information, but they didn't build it. not from what staff has found. And reviewed. Okay. Thank you. Nope. Okay Okay. Thank you very much. All right. I will close the public hearing. Mr. Kerry. Yeah. I mean, maybe this isn't the purview of what we're doing right now, but based on what I just heard, it appears we have children occupying unpermitted buildings, and I guess what? What can or should we do there? Maybe that's not for this commission right here, but it's a little bit disturbing to me, potentially, of what could happen. And now that we're aware of it, what our responsibility might be until this gets fixed. Does anybody. Well I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah Unfortunately, the purview of that doesn't follow the planning department, but we can get in contact with building inspections and property standards and see if there are action that needs to be taken temporarily until the approvals go through. Unfortunately, I don't have the technical answers to how that would work. No, I understand, I guess I'm sure the applicant, as well as all of us will have the same concern that that these children especially are in a safe place. So that that I guess that's my point, right? And I think their, their only path forward is through us. And then the board of Adjustment and then to building in order to get permits so that they can actually get an inspection of the property to get an occupancy permit. And I wonder if there's a way that these buildings could not be used until we at least deem them safe somehow by the city of Plano. But I know that's not for us here, but I feel a responsibility since I now know right? Understood. And I think to Mr. Bell's point about all we can do is make them aware of it and then let them utilize thres. Anyone? Mr. Bronson? So, although I'm not thrilled about the used, while it doesn't have an occupancy permit, I'm hopeful occupancy permit, I'm hopeful that staff is going to be able to address that. And with that said, I make I move. I'm sorry, I move, that we approve, agenda item three be subject to the Board of Adjustment granting variances for the three listed here, but total of five subsection of the zoning ordinance. Second, I have a motion by Commissioner Bronsky, with a second by Commissioner Ratliff to approve item three. B is staff recommended. Please vote. That item carries 7 to 0. Good luck. We'll get it organized, pulled together, and we can move forward. Item four A we're going to do A and B together on this one. So it'll be four. Agenda item number four A zoning case 2024-011. Request to amend plan development 124 neighborhood office to modify the allowed uses office to modify the allowed uses in development standards on 7.1 acres. Located at the northeast corner of Independence Parkway and Ragle tabled June 17th, 2024. The applicant is Abigail Corporation and this is for legislative consideration. Please read item four B as well. Please Agenda item number four B plan. Preliminary site plan. Royal Center, block C, lot three health slash. Fitness center on one. Lot on 0.9 acre. Located at the northwest corner of Dorchester Drive and Mill Valley Road. Zoned Plan development 124 neighborhood office. The applicant is Abigail Corporation and this is for administrative consideration pending agen item number four A. Good evening. The applicant is requesting to amend plan development. 124 to allow for a health and fitness center. The aerial image on the right shows the boundaries of the planned development and the vacant parcel on the east side is the requested location for the health and fitness center. A preliminary site plan was submitted with this zoning case to show the proposed health fitness center improvements, including fencing, a bathroom and paving plan. Development 124 neighborhood office was established in 1977, limiting the uses to banks, office and research and development laboratories. It also limited the height to one stories and included architectural, landscaping and lighting standards. The area was 1980 asl Center Addition. In the late 90s early 2000, the building at 1601 Dorchester Drive was demolished, leaving only the building slab parking lot and trees. You can see this condition in the aerial photograph from 2003. It stayed in this condition until just recently, when the applicant began making improvements to the site. In 2023, the applicant had plans for an indoor health and fitness center building, but ended up withdrawing the request. Staff continued with the zoning case to address lot coverage issues within the plan development. The applicant then submitted a site plan for minor minor improvements, including a retaining wall repair and fencing. At the time, the applicant intended to use the property for personal use, with no commercial operations. The applicant is now requesting to use the property for an outdoor health and fitness center. The plans now include turf fields, fencing, a bathroom building, a storage shed and dug outs. Some improvements have already been installed without approval, cluding netted fencing, poles, signage and slabs for the bathroom buildings, a retaining wall was construed but was not in compliance with the approved site plan, requiring the wall to be a brick like design design. t I'll share a few photos of the site, as it currently is today. This slide shows the eight foot fence in orange and behind it is the taller 16 foot fence in blu. This slide also shows the eight foot fence and 16 foot fence from a different angle. This slide shows the retaining wall, eight foot fence and poles with the 12 foot 12 foot fence in the back. And this is a different angle to show the adjacency to the existing homes. And this photo was taken from the alley. This photo shows the eight foot gate in orange into the parking lot. And lastly, this photo is looking through the gate into the property. Next I will discuss the proposed amendments to the plan development stipulations. The applicant is updating the uses within the stipulations to match the terms in the zoning ordinance. The applicant is clarifying clarifying that Medical office is a permitted use. When the plan development was first established, medical office and professional office were not split out into different uses. Next, religious facilities are currently allowed on one lot within the PD, but the applicant is updating this to allow religious facilities. Within the entire plan development district. And lastly, the applicant is requesting that the Health and fitness center be added as. Thes also proposing stand applicant s also proposing standards specific to the health and fitness center relating to netting, lighting and occupancy. Staff is generally supportive of allowing the health and fitness centers an indoor facility, but is concerned about the impact of an outdoor facility on a small lot located directly adjacent to residential areas. Noise from whistles, yelling and cheerleadie from whistles, yelling and cheerleading, cheering, as well as lighting and visual esthetics of fencing impact the surrounding residential activitd facilities can sometimes be expected, and residents living next to public parks or neighborhood amenity centers. However, the zoning ordinance restricts bleachers and backstop within 150ft of residential homes, respectively, to mitigate potential nuisances from outdoor recreation facilities. While no bleachers or backstops are proposed, allowing a similar development in proximity to single family raises concerns. Next, the request was reviewed against our comprehensive plan. This is located within the community Corners designation on the Future Land Use Map. And the Land Use Policy states. Redevelopment areas shall respect the viability and ality of life for existing neighborhoods. Staff does not believe that this request is in compliance with the Land use policy, and this slide shows the summary of our comprehensive plan review. As previously mentioned, a preliminary site plan was submitted with this request. There are a few minor outstanding comments relating to building separation, lot coverage and labeling that needs to be addressed. If the Commission decides to approve the plan, and if approved, staff recommends a list of required changes to be conditioned with the approval. For responses, we did receive one response in support within the subject property and seven responses withinhe 200 foot buffer, three in support and four in opposition. And we did receive 36 unique responses citywide, 17 in support and 19 in opposition, we did receive four duplicates for a total of 40 responses. And three of the responses were outside of the city of Plano. To summarize, this is a request to amend planned develment. 124 to allow for an outdoor health and fitness center and other clean up changes to the planned development planned development. Staff is recommending denial of the preliminary site plan and zoning case, and I'm happy to answer any questions. Thank you. Questions for staff on this ite, Mr. Kerry, do you know why they're requesting religious and health oriented? Uses? Do we know Uses? Do we know that? Yeah, I can speak to that currently, the PD restricts, one lot within the Royal Center for churchour zonis been updated to religious facilities. Not that term. Secondly, we have, a federal la, Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act that provides a lot more, protections for land use for religious purposes.o therefore, the church would be permitted there today under that law. So we're just making that clear. Yeah. Okay. And the health oriented element. So the health is for the soccer field that they'ree soccer field that they're proposing that that's the use that that would be classified under great. Thank you. Mr. Ratliff, as far as usee table, does that fall under amusement or what what category would that fall under would that fall under as far as the uses and the land use table, it's health fitness center, outdoor. The zoning ordinance does not distinguish between indoor and outdoor health fitness center. It doesn't okay. But even if you look at health fitness center, correct me if I'm wrong. That's not an allowed use in oh one. Correct. Other q, I will open the public hearing and please call our speakers, it looks like first we have Mark Margison Alan, who's our first registered speaker, followed by, Fred Love, and then Brian Berg. So if you guys. So if you guys aren't sitting up front, move up front, please. It's on. Good. We're good. Okay. Awesome. And then I'm sorry. Slide. Perfect. All right, I wanted to start off by saying thank you. I'm actually I'm really excited to be here. I wanted to start by thanking to e city of Plano, especially you, Mike. We've worked pretty closely on this project here for quite some time, I've never done any sort of commercial land development before. This is. I'm not a land developer. This is a passionate project of my wife and my family. And so this has been a learning process for us. and your support through this. And I appreciate the committee giving me a chance to speak on this tonight. So here's just some, some basic, points on our business model. And I think that this is realle there's been a lot of, I think, misinformation about this prect and what it is and what we envision and what we're going to use the space for. And so I wanted to make sure that we're we're very clear on this, the first thing I want to address is, is pay to play. So my name pay to play. So my name is Mark, I'm an avid soccer player. I've been a soccer player my entire life. I'm passionate about it, I love it. come to realize what what the game has given to me, I met my wife at a soccer pub. She's a soccer player, we literally have traveled the world, made friends that have been, you knld, made s that have been, you know, essentially become family because of this, this beautiful game, I spent seven years in the Air pilot and spent three years of that stationed in England and living in England and getting t see what football culture, soccer culture is all about there. allu have fields that are in neighborhoods, right? The communities rally around their youth and around their local matter what. Right? Whether it's you know, tier five or it's Manchester United, you knowt's Manchester United, you know, they the communities love their their fields and their and their game. And so when we live there, we got to see like, man, that would be so awesome if we could ever have something like that in the States. And when we moved back to Dallas and landed here and Dallas became our home, we said, well, hey, here's a chance for us to do something like this and to break the play to pay model that did exist in the US, especially with soccer. And I'm sure a lot of you have children, and I'm sure other sports are like soccer, that if you're going to play at a high level, it's expensive, right? I mean, if you want to train, if you want to play on a travel team, it's really expensive. And so we want to have a space where kids can come and train and play and not have toand not have to pay for it if they can't, if they can't afford it. An This is a training field, right? Not a soccer field. It's a training field, right? This space is not much bigger than a basketball court. So it's not a 11 by 11 Whistles coaches, fans cheering none of that exists. This is a private training facily. So the noise and the hoopla that that is being attached to this doesn't existIt's a it's a private training facility that we're going to use for that purpose for individual and small group training sessions. It's a place where kids can come and safely train, trainers have guaranteed space ain, training in Dallas is a is a huge thing. And trainers use public space. And trainers use public space. They get pushed around, they get asked to leave. You know, sometimes in the middle of sessions. And we want to create a space again where these guys can come. They can they can train their children, train their kids, give them good training, build that passion, build that love for the game and give them a safe space to be able to do that. One of the, the people that, he couldn't be here tonight, you may or may not know him. His name is Nolan Norris, he's a homegrown FC Dallas soccer player, he's actually in Mexico right now at the U-20 National team. So he couldn't be here tonight, but he, he did send me a video that I'd like to play for you, justully this will work. It didn't come in time for me to be able to put it into the slideshow. So I'm going to give this a go. And hopefully you guys can hear this because I Hey, guys, Nolan Norris here, homegrown player for FC Dallas and the U-20 men's youth US national team, I'm friends with Mark, and Iends with Mark, and I just wanted to come on here and say, religious, boost the importance of the soccer field tu know, soccer is growing a lot here in America. And I know myself when, when I was a bit younger, you know, up and coming, it's to have fields like what he's planning for would uld really have been a big blessing, and I think a lot of people are going to prosper with this. So, just wanted to come on here and again, just show my support for him in the field and, and really, just repeat that. It has a lot of meaning, he'll affect, a lot of people positively. I know his younger son, Sebas, who I coach, some trainings were pretty close, so I know a lot of his friends will flourish with this field. So again So again, just s growing here. And I think what he's planning is, is really just a positive a positive for the cd for everybody that's going to be involved. So, I be involved. So, I told Mark that I'd come on here and, just give a couple words and. Yeah. So I would a field like that whenever I was younger, and I know a lot of kids are really going to enjoy it if, if we can get that done. So thank you, everybody. Again, Nolan Norris. Here, have a, have a good one. Bye a good one. Bye So he's he's one of the trainers and, you know, he does that on the side. He trains kids, even as a professional player for FC Dallas, he can't get a field to train on. Like, he just finds random space to go train kids. So the shortage of fields, especially in Dallas, is astronomical, storm soccer is a they're a homeschool based, Christian, soccer club. Felt a calling for our ministry and overlapping with theirs and that, they again, nonprofit kids don't pay very much money at all. The coaches don't get paid. They struggle to find spaces to use. And we've we've kind of partnered with them because we feel like our values and everything overlap idealistically. And if the city grants us the permission to do that, we're going to allow them to use the space for free on, on Fridays, PSA I've also reached out to, Plano youth soccer agai. Field shortage, massive problem, especially for their rec teams, they they train in spaces. It's a first come, first serve basis. And the coaches tell me like sometimes they show up and they have a space. Sometimes they show up. Somebody's there and they don't. So we wa again for the for the littles, the five, six, seven, eight year olds. Right. That fit our small space. Again, this is not a big field. This is not a big stadium. But the littles can come in there. They can train. They can get a chance to kick a ball around. And again, you know, just build that joy and that love for the for the game of soccer in the, in,game of soccer in the, in, in a safe place. Good neighbor, we are we are part of the pictures of what the space looked like when we got the land. So you can see it's overgrown. There's trash there. There's junk there, the lot has been vacant for 20 years. The building burned down. It's been demolished. It's been local fight club for Vines High School, which is, you know, catty corner to the lot by about 20 yards. So, it's been an eyesore. It's been nothing that that gives back to the community for, for many, many, many years. And as I started to show up to the property before we put the fence and all that up, at ast three times I had to call the police and have them remove someone that's, in a homeless situation from the property. So this has just been a dilapidated property that's done. It's done nothing. It's been an eyesore. And, you know, again, potentially a dangerous place, for a long time. We want to give that that lot new life and, and new life to the community and youth does that. We want to bring kids into the community, right. Kids playing in the street. That's not noise, that's life. That's joy. Right? Like that's not a problem, right? We're not. Again problem, right? We're not. Again, having games here. We're not having matches. There's not going to be whistles right. It's going to better at their skills, getting better at their craft, learning to love the game right and we're taking a spot that's been nothingor many, many years. And we're giving back to the community in multiple ways. There's local restaurants around, people are going to be able to use the space, local youth, right? We're going to be able to you'll have taxes coming in right on the on the city level. So it's nothing but a positive. And as I mentioned before, this is a very unique space, anybody that knows anything about soccer and if you don't in Dallas, I'll tell you this is a unique space. There's loads of trainers, there's hundreds of soccer clubs. Right. They're big. They they're factory lines is generate kids push them through. Right. How do we make money? That's not what we want to do. Small space, individual trainings, small groups tailored to customized players. Right t make players better, to make them into the players, to make them players, to make them into the Nolan Norris's. That can be a homegrown player. And they can they can go up through the community and become, you know, h that in mind, we as part of the community and this unique space, we want to have a good working relationship with the community, at the last PNC meeting when this was tabled, one of the adde concerns. And honestly, I was actually really glad that I got to hear that because I got to hear the feedback from them and say, okay, hey, what? What are the concerns? What are they? What are they worried about? Right. And we were able to address those in our site plan and, and address some of those concerns. So one of them, for example, I'll pass this around, to those. Right, we're going to have rules posted at our field in addition to the, the zoning and, and, stipulations that the city puts there. Right? It's going to restrict the noise. It's gng to make us good neighbors for the local community. And I really do think that it's going to be something that benefits the parties involved. And it's not going to impact negatively the neighborhood that we're in. In fact, it's going to, again, bring life and joy to that, to that area in that space, the kind of wrap everything up here, if you don't know who Pele is, you probably living under a rock somewhere, but probably the greatest soccer player of all time. Football is the only sport where people put where. The only sport where you put people together. It doesn't matter if you're rich or poor or black or white. It's one nation. This is the beauty of football, and that's what we want to do. We want to brant to do. We want to bring people into a space where they can enjoy the game. People can can play together they don't have to worry about. I don't have the money to be able to play. I don't have the money to be able to train. We want to give that opportunity to people by granting scholarships and giving them a space where they can do this and again, it's nothing but a benefit to give back to the neighborhood, I'm a firm believer in Proverbs 2717 iron sharpens iron, which is why we want to build a small private training session where we can take kids, put them together, let them train against the like minded skills, and allow them to improve and get better. So thank you so much for your time this evening, and I don't know if I stay up here for questions now or how that would work. Typically we'd have you set and then we'll listen to the rest of the speakers, and then you have some time at the end to come back in case anything is mentioned that you want to clarify. And at that time, take questions from the from the commission. Thank you. Thank you. Okay Let's move on to speaker two and three. Speaker two is going to be Fred Levy. Yes. Good evening. My name is Fred Levy. I live at 2633 Kimberly Court. I am right across the streeteen there 33 years. My family has grown up here. My three kids went through p ISD from kindergarten through high school, graduated high school here. It'sated high school here. It's been a safe, peaceful, and quiet neighborhood. The applicant, however, lives 20 miles away in Coppell, and $1 million mansion. He does not live in Plano, has never lived in Plano, I and it is a for profit business. His business plan, where he talks about we're going to be quiet, we're only going to do a few at a time. There's no accountability to that. I think if he gets Pele or Messi or some of these f people in there, they're going to be hundreds of kids over there and there's no regulation to that to say, well, you said you're only going to have five hoops. So I'm concerned about that. Our neighbors are, we'ret. Our neighbors are, we're concerned about the floodlights that he put in a 200 amp power box, 200 amps. That's bigger than my house, I'm afraid that it's going to do the the floodlights. He's talked about floodlights. They're up there. They're not up there yet. He's done a lot already, but he hasn't put the floodlights in. But I'm wondering put a public address system in. So when he gets these famous players in theyan address the crowd. I'm very concerned about that. There's no stipulation to that. Parking is going to be a problem. He's got some parking on his plat, but the two streets that thiss parallels or this excuse me, doesn't parallel mill Valley and Dorchester are no parking, no standing. It is a fire truck right of way for the Plano Fire Depa5th. So they can't park on that street. So they're going to be parking on our streets. So we're going to have a lot of foot traffic. We're going to have a lot of parking issues. The noise of course is very concerned. He's talking about concerned. He's talking about being affiliated with the Toro Group out of San Antonio is what my research shows. And the Toro Grou. They d they're a big outfit. They have a lot of pull, and they're going to get they're going to get these famous players in there and get a lot of people. It's an outdoor soccer field. This is not an indoor office building and we have big concerns that the noise is going to be a major problem. And I have some concerns if we approve this, even on a site plan, it sets a precedence for the wholed to say, okay, I'm going to do this one, but we're this one, but we're not going to do the other ones, you can't say no to them. If they come back and say, well, we want to put a football training field in for the high school, or we want to do football training for our kids because it's such a popular sport. So we have concerns about that. So he has done a lot of 30s. Thank you. He's done a lot of unauthorized and un he's done, he has no permit for. I'm very concerned that he'sm vs been defiant for the city procedures. And I'm I'm just real concerned about his trustworthiness. Moving forward, so my hopes is that you'll decline his request. And would you wanthouse? Thank you. Thank. Next. Brian Berg. Hello, I'm Brian Berg, and I'll be brief. I looked over the zoning ordinance. Where do you live, sir? I beg your pardon? What's your address, my address, 5765. Yuri, in 5765. Yuri, in Plano, 75093. Thank you. Okay ten 200.1, it just says the oh one district, which oh one district, which this is, is intended to provide for low rise, garden type office development, providing professional medical and other office adjacent neighborhoods. And what's going in there certainly doesn't qualify as that. This isn't a thing with no exterior walls and no roof. And the other thing you know, wh you when you look at the permitted uses, in the old one, zoning classification on your schedule, 14 200 in article 14, every other use listed, or every other zoning characteriza that's listed, can be a health and fitness center, but not zero one. Tha Ts the only one that's excluded. And you know, this to me, just looks like something that really just can't be done in the existing framework. And so, you know, we you know, I oppose the, the structure and that's it. Thank. And we have some folks on zoom. It looks like do we want to we have one more person though, in person. One more person in One n person. Bonita John, are you here? Yes. And then zoom rather than bounce back and forth. Good evening. Commissioners, giv us your name and your address. John. And I said Plano. Seven 200 Preston Road, 75024. Thank you. And I'm here to speak in support of the, terrorist training facility and as someone who has seen firsthand the incredible impact this, facility can have in our community, I believe this project is not only beneficial, but essential for you. I'm a soccer mom, so I know that, firstly, let me highlight the importance of soccer in the life of kids. Soccer is more than just a game.cer is more than just a game. It teaches teamwork discipline and perseverance. It provides a healthy outlet for physical activity, which is increasingly important in a time when inactive facility will offer a safe and structured environment for kids to develop their skills. This facility will provide professional grade amenities, ensuring thats, ensug athletes have the best resources available to refine their talent. Moreover, the presence of experienced coaches and mentors will foster not only athletic development but also personal these kids. But beyonde immediate benefits to the children, this project also aims to give back to our community turf training Facility has planr underprivileged youths, ensuring that all children, regardless of their financial situation, have access to quality training. tra. Additionally, the facility will host community events which will not only bring us together, but also will attract people to the area who will patronize local businesses, thereby boosting th, the approval of this rezoning application is more than just a change of land use. It is an investment to our community future. It will provide our children with the opportunity to grow, learn and thrive in learna supportive environment. I urge you to please consider the long term positive impact this facility will have on our youth and our town as a whole. Thank you for your time and consideration. Thank you. Thank you. You can clap at your mom. Go ahead, clap. Okay, it's my understanding we have some folks on zoom. Yes have Paul Ramlow. All right. So we need to see them need to see them on the screencity was having issues that there wasn't an unmute button. Hi. Good evening. Can you guys see me? We can hear see me? We can hear you, but we cannot see you. We need to be able to see you in order for you to speak. Okay? Let me and I only see one screen up here on the zoom. I don't see another person in. Yeah, the only to uno mute myself, I can see, I can still see the presentation, but I don't see that camera button that usually pops up on usually. So, do you have any idea how to turn my camera I'm not able to do that on my end here. Where's our tech gurus? Because I am seeing a video feed that shows us and I'm seeing the presentation. Us seeing the presentation. Usually we have another zoom window that pops u. Okay, we're checking on it. Be patient with us for a moment. Okay, I see somebody popping up here. Hey, guys, can you guys see me now? I can, I can see myself. Yes. Very good. Okay, let's. Sorry about that. Sorry. No worries, no worries, yes. My name is Paul Ramlow. I'm the founder and owner of Paulinho Academy, it's a private training, company slash service. So we basically train, young and older kids and small groups and one on one training as well friends with Mark, and, I support, toe ground, you know, the trainingou know, the training facility, because of several reasons, I'm originally from Germany. You can probably hear my, my accent. And I used to play on a very high level there. I came to the States on a full ride, played in San Diego for four years, and now I, you know, train kids, because of the same reasons, like, Mark out o, like, Mark out of passion. We love the game. The kids love the game, Dallas has a has a huge s. But one one thing is clearly missing, it's space, it's safe space. It's also, private space where, you know, the parents can drop off the kids and, and they can focus. There's, there's barely any noise, you have several parks and several parks and several facilities in Dallas, but the problem is, you know, you have loud music going on. You have, other activities, rec activities, you know, out there. So, this facility is not eventsr games out there. It's more to give the kids to give the kids a safe and private space so they can focus on on the game and on the drills. And, again, it's not a it's not a big field. It's a small, smaller sized field. So, they're not going to be 100 kids out. philoI grew up in Germany, I played there, you got to have the conditions right. And if you train on grass and the weathu train on grass and the weather is, is not nice, you know, it's raining, theeled. You know, this is a turf field. So turf fields are not there in Dallas, I always get frustrated, you know, if I have, my, my sessions, you know, at the different facility and then all of the sudden, the grass is all muddy, and the session has to be canceled, you know? So, the turf is a huge, t, huge advantage. It's also private. So in end of the day, I'm in favor of it because I know, with field quality comes also, a high quality session, and, yeah, I would, I would really appreciate if that projects if that project gets approved. Yeah. Thank you, that's that's all. Thank you. Thank you. And I'm glad that the zoom worked out. Now we get to try it again. Go ahead. Do you live in Plano? I did not hear that. Did he? When he registered, though. Does it sho? Okay, we'll. Does it show? Okay, we'll ask. Ask him real quick. Are you still there? Hang on. One second. Yea Let's go bao Mr. Ramelow. Can you give us where you're where you live, please? If he'sre you live, please? If he's still here, yep, Dallas. 75252. Thank you. So very close to the field. All right, Mr. Rattigan, go ahead. Great. Thanks. Good evening. Thank you for the opportunity to speak today. My name is Kevin Rattigan. And where do you live, sir? I've been a resident in I'n Plano for the past 20 years. I live at 7012 Ebony court, Plano, Texas, 75024, I'm here to propose and advocate for this soccer field, in our community specifically designed to serve homeschooled children and to provide space for private and small group soccer trainings, the soccer field will bring many benefits to the community, including providing inclusive physical education so homeschool children often lack access to traditional physical education facilities. The soccer field would provide a dedicated space for these students to engage in physical activity. Promoting health and well-being will also help social interaction, in which the field would serve as a gathering place for homeschool families, fostering social connections and community building. Among a group that that that can some that can soml isolated. It also provides skill development for children in which private and small group trainings would offer soccer skills, teamwork, and discipline, regardless of their education. Background. There are also economic impacts it will have, including creating opportunities for local coaches and trainers to offer their services, stimulating small business growth in our communit. It will help with property values as well as maintain recreational facilities have been shown to positively impact property values and surrounding areas. And lastly, it will provide community integration while primarily serving homeschool children. The field could be made available to the wider promoting integration and efficient use of resources. In conclusion, the soccer field represents an soccer field represents an investment in our community's youth health and social cohesion. It addresses a specific need forlies while offs to the broader community. We respectfully ask for your support in approving ts project. Thank you for your time and consideration. Thank you. Okay does that hit all of our speakers? For a we have registered speakers for four B yeah, I see that, I'm wondering ju just so that the speakers understand you're we read four A and four B, so it's you're speaking on the same items. Yout speaking twice if that helps anybody, , I see one different person. Perhaps Kenny Smith, are you here? And then then go ahea. Okay Hello, everyone. Can he stand with me? He's the one. Yes, absolutely. I thought he was the speaker. He's going to be the speaker. But I'm going to introduce myself. My name is Quinn Smith, and I grew up. Oh, sorry. I live in, little Elmin,, but my father is. I'm home grown. I went to school here in Plano, my dad actually coaches at Plano East, where they won the basketball. Yes, they did, o part of my childhood was growing up in Pl childhood was growing up in Plano, and their childhood is prettypent a lot of time in Plano, so there you go, buddy. This is for you. She kicked it off. Now it's all on you. Hello. My name is Caden, and I'd like to support, the soccer field so we could have our training and soccer is not just a sport. It's just to help us to life lessons and another reason is I wouldn't. I hate, gettin, gettid off field. Thank you. Good job. Yeah. Getting kicked off the field is no fun. Okay, so that's all of our speakers, right? All of our unique speakers. Yes Okay, Mr. Allen, do you want to come up kind of any last minute comments, and then we'll see if any of the commissioners have questions, I would, and again, thank you for giving me a chance to speak again, I guess just jotting a couple of notes down here from, some comments that were made, I have no affiliation with Toro whatsoever, I don't know where you got that from, but. Well, Toro means bull in Spanish, and my wife is Spanish, so that's where that comes from. So you made an assumption that I'm associated with Toro, not address. Address the questions here, please. So I have no association with Toro, there is absolutely no PA system that is going into this into this field, we have ample parking inside the gate which PD. So that will that will hold anyone that is at the field to train. We'll be able to park on the north end of our lot. Hence the pavement that we put in there so that we can we can ferx the dead end parking that might, could work with us on. We have the pavement in there all parking would be inside the lot. In addition to the rules that I posted with you guys, there, the lights, we're working with the Wisconsin Lights, we're workinge Wisconsin Lighting Lab, LED lights. You can restrict them greatly, and they are able to give us zero bleed over. Especially on the easthere Mr. s house is. There is the fence with the wind mesh on it. with the wind mesh on it. There's a row of trees, then there's a road, then his eight foot tall wooden fence that all acts as a barrier. And we have the lighting company that is working on having zero bleed over onto the outside of our property lines. So that will be, that will be taken care of as well, the noise, so I went out to the, the lot with a with a decibel meter. The ambient noise on the field is right around 45 or so decibels. When you're out there talking normal likeit goe. Soccer ball being kicked, 65 to 70, in in addition to the barris that are there, we're adding, it's called duct Vmax, vibration dampener. That's going to go on the back of that are there to help keep the, the ball in the fields. We're adding that to the back when, when Mr. Levey brought up that concern I said, okay, how can we go dampen this noise, address that concern. noise, address that concern. Right. So basically it's an insulation tape that's going to go on the back of the boards. Right. That's going to help keep that noise down and dampen that noise, when we took the decibel meter and stood over next to Mr. LaVey's propertythe decibel noi. Yes, you can hear the light thud of the ball when it hits the when it hits the board, but there is no noticeable change on the decibel meter. And if you go to the street, which is on stree other side of his property, the ambient noise is 65dB plus. And when a car comes by, you're at 80dB. So he has way more noise coming from the street than anything that's going to come from the lot in any of our kids that are going to be there, it t will not be a big facility. We're not bringing pros in. We're not doing in. We're not doing that. That's not the purpose of this. I'm really trying to stress that with this business model, that this is a small private training facility that we want to kids, and we dot to give training to kids that can't afford it, regardless of where Iafford it, regardless of where I live. And we are part of the community because part of the community is Dallas, that's Plano, that's Coppell. Soccer is throughout Dallas and this is the soccer community, and that goes into Plano. Thank you. Okay, before you before away. Oh, yeah. Let's see if we've got some questionsI want to clarify something to make sure because, I did see the picture. It says Toro Training grounds. And there is I'm familiar with the Toro Club. I think somebody else had part of it or something. And so just to be clear, you're not involved with the Toro Group. There is no Toro affiliation. Like I said, my wife is Spanish and British, so that's where Toro comes from. We are my wife and I and that is it. This is no club. There's no academy. It is a few trainers and myself, and we're going to use the space for small private training. There's no affiliation with any club, pro amateur, anything outside of myself and my wife. Okay. And I you know, I appreciate the, the rules that you're going to have posted and stuff. But it was mentioned 2 or 3 times that you're going to open it up to other people to, to use. And I'm assuming you're not going to be there the to be there the entire time. Correct. So you know, we have to also look at this as how, how, how, how powerful is youre that mighe using the facility that because it's yours and you're giving the key to somebody else, you're responsible for whatever happens on that lot? Absolutely. An coms in. We're going to be very selective about who we use. It's not going to be opened up to just anybody. And to just anybody. And again, we're going to keep the groups small. There's no more no more than honestly, eight kids at a max on the field at one time because we want it to be small, private training groups. So people like Nolan, people that we know and that we trust are going to be the ones that are going be able to use the field. It's not going to be just, hey, Will, anybody can just come in and use it or sign up and use it. We're going to be selective about who we use and to your point, I understand I'll be fully accountable for that. Yes. All right. Commissioners, anyone else with questions? Mr. Bronsky can I see the presented on your presentation, yeah, ma, maybe we'll go back. , there we go. That one? Yeah. Yes, sir. So that's, I think, where some of the confusion came in with the, the logo sitting there. I wondered the sure aboun to Toro. So I think that could be where the misconceptions came from. So I got a couple questions, please, you just mentioned a maximum of eight kids on the field, is there? So I guess this question is for you and city staff. Is there an occupancy number for thisy numbs location as a whole, the plan development stipulations would restrict it to 20, and that's with conversations with the applicant about in the worst case scenario, how many children would be there. And And you fee5 parking spots would be more than enough to ensure that you to ene all the parking you need? Yes, absolutely. Because like I said, it's going to be small training sessions. That's all we're doing. Okay And, I have a question for you, but for the city staff as well, the application for the noise ordinance, what is that? What'se ordinance numbers for them and their requirements to we have to give us a moment to look that up. Okay. So another question you can look upu can look up asy understanding is to have a public address system. You actually have to have into the t correct or can they they can't just put one in later. Is that correct? No I don't I don't believe a public address system is required on a site plan. So 's possible it could be added later. Although I'm not saying you are, I'm just asking the question. Yes it could. Okay. te question. Yes it could. Okay. Last question I think is, have , concrete work and things like that without permits? So to be completely honest, yes, we d completely honest, yes, we did. So going back to, I guess call it the nature of the day job, right? Being a fighter pilot and trying to lead tours and everything. So when we were intending this for the private use, we were told by city that regardless of private use or public use, that we had to put bathrooms in. So we said, okay, well, if we have to put bathrooms in and we need to have turnaround for the parking, we went ahead and put that concrete in there. So, again, as I said, not experienced with, with, commercial development, we put concrete in at my house and the contractor didn't pull a permit, we didn't need a permit. So we s something that we needed to address with the permit, the other items, such as the fence, the retaining wall, those have all been permitted. Permits have been signed off and inspected by by building inspections and have been, you know, closed out and good., closed out and good. So have you looked into the noise ordinances at all at what's actually going to be required of you as it relates to , no. Okay. And last question. Traffic, what kind of trip counts are you expecting to have, through your. Yeah. So most of, most of the sessions, their training sessions are about an hour. So, if you've got, you know, maximum of again, you know, four to even if you if you said eight kids, you'd have eight cars coming in, eight cars coming out, on, on the hour ish. Okay And you need 25 spots, parking spots for that. Well the parking spaces are what's already there. was the existinge that was already there from the previous building. We basically are just we're just striping it and then adding the turnaround space there. So the I guess the issue was there we are we are widening the fire lane on the west side of the property to bring it to code. The, the parallel or the perpendicular parking that was there right now is now going to be gone. There'll be several parallel parking spaces there to widen the fire lane and bring it to code. But, Mr. Can correct me if I'm wrong. There is a, what do you call it, shared parking agreement there as well. But we won't need it all the spaces that we'll need will be inside s that we'll need will be inside that fence. Okay. And you feel good about the 20 total people as your total occupancy for thim good. Thank you. I believe that answer to believe that answer to the noise question. If you'd like that, I would, so it's going to vary by time of day, but along the property line with the residential from 7 a.m. to 10 p.m. So during the daytime it'll be 65dB or 10dB above the background noise level, whichever is lower, at night time a.m, it is 55dB or 5dB above the background noise level, whichever is lowerground noise , whichever is lower. And you feel like those numbers are absolutely. And I again, I have the data and the videos on my phone to prove it. That that with me speaking right next to the decibel meter, we hit 60dB. We'd be standing there talking and again, there's not going to be cheering, screaming, whistles, none of thato, for tht hours where you are, we are totally good. And at 1001 the lights will already be off. So our plan is to not work past past 9:00 at the latest. So I . So I can appreciate you having this is your kind of first experience with some of this, one of the things that we find that is often very helpful for development is having some community meetings before you kind of move to our conversations, and sometimes you can work out some of these things in that process. Sure. So we did, we did do door to door canvasing through the neighborhood, I spoke with, at least a half was interesting. As I went through there, someone else had come through, essentially campaigning against me, saying a lot of things that were said here. Oh, they're putting in stadium lights. They're putting in a PA system. It's going to be loud, it's going to be all this, it's going to be whistles, it's going to be cheering. And I'm li to be cheering. And I'm like, I don't know where that's coming from. But but we did do the door to door and go through and speak to very much. Thank y. Kerry. Yeah. Thank you, so it's 7.1 acres is the total size of f this property, is that correct? I believe so, the whole PD. Yes. Yeah Okay. How how big is the are the fields that you're proposing to build. You said a basketball court. So does that e field there. Correct That's it. There's one field there that's again slightly larger than aagaa basketball court. Okay, you know, you talk about, you know, 4V4 or whatever, you guys are going to play there. But I think you'd probably agree whenever you show up with 4V4, you might have eight kids, but you also have parents and other people. Correct. So it's likely to be more than possibly than possibly the first impression. Would you agree, yeah. You could have parents that will be there to watch. Sure. Yeah, sure. And so just don't agree with. You said there won't be any cheering or anything. And if anybody said I've been around youth soccer a lot. As a matter of fact, my daughter was a state champion. So anyway, so, there will be cheering, there will be screaming. All of that will happen. You have children and it will happen. So I'm not sure that's completely accurate how much that affects the surrounding neighbors, I think, is debate, why did you pick this site in the middle of this nehborhood? And did you look at other sites? Why did you find this site to be ideal? I understand that, it was available, but why did you feel this was the right site? Well, going back to my experience growing up, being in Europe, that having a field in the community that's close by, that kids can walk to. Right? I mean, we drive everywhere in, in America, right? Especially in Dallas. Right? I mean, 30 minute commute is standard across the board, right? So to have a space that's in a neighborhood that kids can walk to, the kids can go and use can go and use, in my opinion and my, our vision of what it was was ideal. And that allowed thed play and just kick the ball about and not have to worry about, hey, mom, dad, can you take me to the. Can you take me to the park to go play? Yeah. No, I understand what you're doing. I think, you know, the idea is noble, my guess is a lot of your kids are going to be driving here anyway. You're probably the preponderance of probably the preponderance of kids. Probably isn't going to be walking there from the neighborhood, in my opinion. So you know, my guess is that won't turn out to be completely accurate know while while it is a European model, we're not in Europe right now. And so there is a little different model here in terms of people and the homes theyterms f people and the homes they buy and what they expect based on the existing zoning around them. And so why you consider that. Bt but, you know, so, and you're convinced that these lights will r neighbors and how high will the lights be, sir, so the initial, pole heights from the lighting company are showing around 18ft. Yeah Okay, and the final thing is, is maybe maybe not for you, but, you know, we've got a parks department here, and we're known for our parks, and it it's a little surprising to me to hear that kids can't find a place to play soccer. So on, a different note, maybe we should look at that. But that's not for you. That's for us here. Maybe so. Anyway thank you very much. Can I address any of those? Anything that he had said. So the 44 we're not playing games there, so there won't be the cheering and so on. It's training. So the parents can watch the training. And if you're going to cheer your kid on through a drill or a or a training session, again, as a parent, I don't I don't go to my kids trainings and cheer them on at training. We're not playing matches there. And again, I want to be really clear about that. It's a training facility. Okay. Thank you. Okay, Mr. Ratliff, and let's just try to maximize our time and his. Just ask specificuestions. If possible. Yeah, I've got a question for staff before I ask the applicant, what is the parking requirement for? Exercise whatever this is, facilities, health fitness center, breaks down depending on what kind. If it's a gym or track or things like that. But for this particular outdoor field, it would be one space per 1000ft■!, which equates to 12 spaces based on their size. But they have the one of the comments that we've made about there's a few outstanding comments. One is to include the additional, smaller field that was, smaller field that was put on their site plan, and that would increase it to 15 spaces, roughly 15,000ft■. But they have more thanmore than that. Yes. Okay I didn't see that in the report anywhere. And Ire. And I could I, I overlooked it. Yeah. So, I applaud what you're doing, I really do, I think you've got a good mission. I'm just not sure you have the right location. And so my other locations in Plano there? We have lots of, property of, prop. That's that's dying for redevelopment. That the indoor and outdoor, we've seen grocery stores reused for pickleball courts, have you looked at any of those facilities to serve your purpose? That would be more appropriately located? No. We haven't. Okay. Okay. That is, I was hoping your answer would be yes. So well, and to that point, like I said, I'm not a land developer, right? I don't I t? Is space. We felt that it was a great space, given the size of it for wha the size of it for what we wanted to do. Again, we're not looking. You take a grocery store now, you're. You're ten times what we are now, right? We don't want that. We want it to be small. We want it to be intimate. And that's why we felt that the location was was perfect. And again, giving the, the model of what we're going to do, we, I still firmly believe tha that's needs to be redeveloped. We're bringing new life to it. And I sincerely don't think that we're going to negatively impact the area around it with what we're doing with our busines wht we're doing with our business model. Do you or would you think you would ever have plans to enclose this and make it an indoor facility, potentially, yeah. If, if down the road, if, if I, if I have the funds to do something like that, that could be an option for sure, because, obviously to, to beat the heat and have AC and would be, would be ideal, and the reason I ask that is originally it was considered a year or two ago ass much better received, I think it's the, the outside the outsit is what's certainly giving me a problem with the lights and the and the, you know, the traffic can be mitigated, but the lights and the noise are a lot harder to mitigateights specifically, and, and that's in the middle of a neighborhood. That's what's giving me problems, sogiving mel reserve the rest of my comments for anyone else close you. I wil close the public hearing and pud confine discussions to the commission. And I'll just kind of startI really think I can envision what you're envision what you're talking about in terms of being a small neighborhood. Particularly in a, in the UK or someplace where I mean, that's their lives. As an indoor facility, I think you just you raised a whole bunch of the, the issues that that we're discussing at zoning cases and requests to change them, with an eye toward is it supported by the local neighbors or not? Because if it was already zoned this and they moved in and then you built it, well, you were there first kind of thing. But in this case, you're asking to create a use surrounded by people who have been there for a while, know what is supposed to be there, and you know, it's unfortunate timing wise, perhaps for you that, we have a lot of folks aging in place in Plano. We like being in the city. We bought our houses, and this is where we want to live, ten years from now, these guys may have moved onAnd the other neighbors that are older. And then you have young families in with young kids, and they may be going, oh my God, we're going to get a soccer field right next to our house. So, I'm, I'm not in a a position, I think, where I could probably support this if it was an indoor facility, I would have a lot I think it would then respect the neighbors. I don't think it would be nearly as bad as they y envisioned, but it would be an impact. And that's that's kind of where I sit on it, anyone else want to, Mr. Ratliff? Yeah, I'm kind of in the same place, but, I want to go kind of one step further. I mean, it's currently zoned oh one and per the staff report, oh one is intended to serve as an area of transition between residential and higher intensity nonresidential uses. And I and as much as I like the idea and the concept of what you're wanting to achieve I do believes under a higher intensity nonresidential use, which is intended to be buffered by an O one district, not be part of an O one district. If you were, you know, one zoning category away in a O, two, I'd have no problem with it at all. If you wereat ae indoors, I'd probably have no problem with it at all, but I, I in an o one, it's an O one i why it's a garden office. Quiet. Especially at nights. And weekends. It's intended to be silent on nights and weekends. A garden office is as quiet as you can get on nights and weekends, and this will be exactly the opposite, and so that's what gives me problems. And,. And, aa result, I'm, I, I, I can't support it as an outdoor facility. Mr, KerryI thank the chair and, and, Commissioner Ratliff have, represented my thoughts a lot. And as I said, I think it's a noble idea. I like the idea. I just the idea. I just I think that we're here to talk about land use. And in my opinion, regretfully, this isn't the right land it's challenging for me to support this, and I would love to see this gentleman possibly gentleman possibly look for another site. But it'd be hard for me to support this particular one. Mr. Bruno. Thank you. First I want to say that, I don't require any persuasion as to the benefit in organized soc. When I was a teenager, my When I was a teenager, my family, including myself, lived in Italy for three years. And we were exposed to European soccer in a big way. I still follow the Italian Soccer League. I mean, I, I look at the highlights on YouTube, I follow the standings. I have a favorite team in the Italian league. I played a little soccer myself in my youth, but I'm also a planning and zoning commissioner, and I have to look at this case from the standpoint of, is this a good use f seeing is a noble idt unfortunately, because of its location, threatens to adversels location, threatens to adversely impact adjacent residential properties in terms of potential for light, noise, the noise is unavoidable. Let's face it. Parking, I would like to see this project succeed, but I think it belongs somewhere else. Thank yo think it belongs somewhere else. Thank you. Yeah You want to add anything or make a motion or. Where are you at, I if everybody else is where we're sounding like we're going to be, I've got to say as well, I agree with everything that all of the commissioners have said and it's kind of disappointing to me that, we're not able to do something better for this current, land. But I don't think it's fair to our citizenryo make any other decision. So I move that, for agenda item four a th four a that we, decline or we follow the recommendation of staff and decline to move this forward. I'll second that. So I have a motion by Commissioner Bronsky with a second by Commissioner Kerry to deny the petition for item four. A please vote. And that carries seven zero. Item four B. Oh I'm sorry. Yeah, I, I move that we deny item four B as recommended by staff as well. Second so I have a motion by Commissioner Bronsky with a second by Commissioner Ratliff to deny the application, on item four, B for staff's recommendation, please vote. An. Thank you for being here. Perhaps you might find a way to enclose this and might have a different outcome. Let's move on to item five. A agenda item number five a public hearing zoning case CC 2024002. Request to rezone from corridor commercial and planned development 123 downtown business slash government to plan development 123 downtown business slash government on 8.6 acres located on the south side of 14th Street, 330ft east of U.S. highway 75. Petitioner is Regency and Pamela Walker. Plano Plano Family 001 LP and Family s State Affordable Housing Corporation. And this is for legislative consideration, should we read five? Be there. They're connected. So please read five B as well. Agenda item number £0.05 number £0.05 revised preliminary site plan Patriot Park block A lot 2R-129 multifamily resident units on one lot on 2.4 acres. Located on the south side of 14th Street, 330ft east of U.S. highway 75. Zone plan development dash 123 Dash downtown business. Downtown slash business. Government and corridor commercial applicant is Regency Property Investors, L.P. Michael and Pamela Walker. This is for administrative consideratn. Pending. Item number five a thank you. Okay. Good evening. The request is to expand PD 123 and BG to include a 0.2 acre property at the southwest corner of 14th and F Avenue. The applicant is also proposing stipulations to build a multi family residence. The 0.2 acre property is currently zoned corridor Commercial. On the screen you'll see highlighted in blue is the Corridor Commercial property. They are proposing to rezone the property to the north of 14th Street are zoned corridor Commercial and Downtown Business government, also also known as BG and developed with a bank office, retail, multifamily and single family residences. The properties to the east of G Avenue and north of 13th and 14th connector is developed with a pawn shop and offices and zoned BG. The properties to the south of 13th and 14th Collect Collector is developed with single family residences and retail, and is zoned General Residence and Corridor Commercial, and the properties to the west are zoned Corridor Commercial and developed with a medical office and a medical office and restaurants. Along with the zoning case, there is the revised preliminary site plan that is item five B. The plan is proposing a 129 multifamily unit residence, including the 0.2 acre property. The unit count has not from the previously approved plan. They are just adding the oh point two aoh point two acren order to have more developable area. As part of their project, there are two apartment buildings on the site. There is one building on the west side. Those will contain all the garage spaces and then the building on the east side will contain, some of the standard parking tuck under podium parking. So for the history of this site, you'll see on the screen there is a portion of the o in 2002, PD 123 was created and approved on that 1.5 acres. And it was intended to allow the building of a independent living facility. That indep facility. That independent living facility was never constructed. In 2012, the property was rezoned to PD 123 and BG, and that was to allow multifamily. And that's where stipulations one and two were first provided, and then in 2023, the site plans foron 14th apartments was approved for 62 multifamily units, and it is under construction today. In 2016, there was a zoning case to expand PD 123 BG to include the adjacent 5.6 acre properties and those are shown in red and yellow. So the red is was planned to be a first phase, and the yellow was planned to be a second phase. And in 2016, this concept was called the Artist Lofts. And then in 2018, the site plan for the site plan for the Patriot Park Phase one apartments was approved for 139 units, and then in 2022, the preliminary site plan for Prairie Park Phase two was approved for 129 multifamily units. The. The revised preliminary site plan today is for that 2022 preliminary site plan, and that is whatan, and te seeking to revise. So there are currently four existing PD 123 stipulations. And those are the ones currently guiding the site. Today. There are no plans to modify any of the existing stipulations on the property. So here are the stipulations and I just want to note there is a property on the southern boundary of the site. It's located at 608 13th Street, and according to PD stipulation number four, there is a required 15 foot landscape buffer and a six foot fence. The six foot fence has since been built and installed in that area, but as of today there is no landspe buffer, plantings and you can see on the first picture on the top that is currently that property t the west side today. So there's no landscaping there, but you can see the fence. And then on the east side there is the aboveground utility that must also be removed as part of that landscape buffer. The applicant has committed to removing it as part of their project, the relocation site has not been detmined as of the preliminary site plan, but we will review that. Okay So the applicant is also proposing an additional amendments to PD 123. And in order to build their multifamily residence, the first one is allowing 30 to 30 units within the PD. 123 and BG, the second additional stipulations are garage and parking spaces will count towards meeting parking minimums and compact space percentage requirements and then they are also addressing noise mitigation and pollution mitigation. And those are pretty standard language that we have used for other planned developments. And I will go through them now. So just to cover the first one, this is for the whole site. The maximum number of units for the whole PD is 330 multifamily units. And so on the screen you can see the blue, red and yellow again. And so in that whole area there's going to be 330 units. There's no increase from the previous plan as stated. And they're st expanding the area for the 129 family units. So here is their First Amendment. Or second. And this is regarding the garage enclosures. So typically garages are not considered as part of the parking requirement. But the applicant is wanting to count garages as part of the parking count minimum. And the current concerns we have for that is garages can often be used as storage and so the applicant is proposing, the applicant is proposing to have requirements to not be used for storage or unrelated uses on the property. And so that is going to be like a self regulated, policy. And but the PD. And then the second. And ths tandem parking spaces will also be allowed to be permitted for the required parking minimums. And so there are ten spaces in front of the garages on the west side that there is enough room for a parking space. And the applicant is proposing to use those spaces to count as parking. And so tandem parking is also not typically required or counted towards a required parking. A see. And so one of the reasons for the difficulty is it's difficult to enforce, the garage in tandem parking spaces to count. So for example if some, if a household with one driver has a garage and a tandem space and they park outside the tandem space, they can use the garage as storage. And it would be ry difficult to go inspect that every time. And so it is hard, very hard to enforce, the previous plan required no modified development standards to meet parking requirements. Anso it was previously doable. And even with the additional area, they are requesting these modified standards. The restrictive parking that is caused by the tandem and garage parking may cause people to park on nearby streets, impacting surrounding neighbors and street networks. So that is one. So that is one of our larger concerns. And then also on parking, no more than 50% of the total parking spaces in in the BG districts are allowed to be compact, and that is by our zoning ordinance. But we are also just stating it here in the PD, because currently in their mix without stipulations, compact parking would count for 63% of the spaces on site. And that is because garages and tandem spaces do not count in normal situations. A citywide, downtown business government already has restrictive parking standards compared to the rest of the city, and I think it would just create additional challenges for the site and nearby properties, one of the concerns also was only 20% of parking spaces are considered standard spaces on the site and under building two. So the eastern building, there are plans for podium parking with a number of spaces underneath and currently on the preliminary site plan. The applicant does show possible locations for structural podiummplete size yet as that may change during the plans. And so if the if the pillars the if the pillars change size in the plan, then that may overall affect the number of spaces they can provide under the building. And so they're currently at the required parking at 142. And they have 142 out of 142. So if they lose any spaces then that is going to create deficiency in their parking. So in the current location of the property, it is required. It is located in the environmental health area. One in multifamily is considered a sensitive land use. And the applicant did provide a noise study. And in the noise study, it found the proposed development is not consistent with the EPA guidelines, but the applicant with this information is proposing noise pollution mitigation standards and that includes having no balconies on the west side and then meeting internal noise requirements through architects and engineers to keep it below 45dB. And we can see them here so you can see where it's located. There's like the light blue portion. It's kind of hard to see, but that's where the subject pro. And thene pollution mitigation measures, it looks l measures, it looks like the noise one is out. But as mentioned they are standard standard stipulations for noise and pollution mitigation. And the noise mitigation isn't on the slides, but they are in the report. So if review it, it is on there. There we go. As far as conformance to far as conformance to the comprehensive plan, it is located in the downtown corridors category of the future land use map. Overall, the site is consistent with a lot of the elements of the comprehensive or Environmental Health Area must be determined by the Commission. For responses within the subject property, we received one in support. For properties within 200ft, we received one in suppod three in opposition, we did receive one letter, and youan see the property in the very top right corner. So we received two letters because it is an apartment unit. And we received another letter that did not state whether they were in support or against or neutral to this case. So they were not included as part of the supermajorit letters. Total responses for the site received are seven three.te received are seven three. In support, four against, and then that one letter. So in summary the applicant is requesting to rezone that point two acre property from Court Commercial to PD 123 and BG to include in the Patriot Park in k phase two multifamily apartment. There is no increase to the proposed multifamilyf the ability to meet parking requirements and restricted parking may impact neighbors and nearby streets, the zoning case and the preliminary site plan are recommended for denial. I'm available for any questions. Can I so the existing PD is already approved for the number of units they're wanting to build, right. Well, so the number of units are wanting to build was approved on the preliminary site plan in 2022. Right. They're just we're just codifying it in this PD. That 330 will be the allowed limit for the PD. Understand all of that. What I'm curious about is that it was approved in 2022. You said I think parking would have been something that was addressed then. So it sounds to me like it was approved in 2022. All we've done is we're adding point two of an acre to the PD area. We're not adding any units. The parking was something that would have been discussed and evaluated back in 2022. So it seems to me like all we're doing really is saying, hey, okay, to the project and in general, that sounds like what we're doing. And then bringing some of it up to date on the PD nguage based on the noise and pollution requirements that we've now put in place. Sort of. So in. Sort of. So in the designs from the 2022 project and then the current proposal, thereredesign on the n the 22 plans, there was plans for p for, podium parking on the ground floor for the whole site. And so that was able to accommodate a lot of the parking on the site. But now in this proposal, there is more surface parking around the buildings. And so although there are, there is a few tuck in parking on the east side under the east side building. Most of them are going to be surface parking lots, and a lot of them are compact, compact spaces as well. And so that's kind of the reason why we had to address it through PD stipulations. Is this already subject to, you said decreased pa requirements because it's downtown BG right. Correct I just want to I just want to clarify that the 2022 plan was a single building with all the parking underneath, so there were no there were no modifications to parking standards requested. It met the standard BG parking spaces. Okay. Part of this request is to allow those deviations from standard parkingde, more garage, more tandem, and more compact than would typically be allowed. Okay yes, microphone lean in. There you go. So what's the ratio of the parking per unit? Sot is for efficiency efficiency and one bedroom units are one parking spa units are one parking space for two bedrooms. It's one and a half. And then for three bedrooms or more it's twot's in BG okay. And you're like so now it's 147 147 for the 129 ri. The 147 142 for the 129. Yes. It's for the 129 units that they're adding. Right. So it's like a one point something. Right. Right right. Yeah. And you're like in the almost 23% of those are going to be like non cong to be the tandem and the garages. Yes. Soo because they will be assigned to the same unit, it may end up decreasing the rate for some of the other units that won't have the. So it won't be the one and a half that they might normally get. And so that that creates that difference. Yeah. Thank yo, Mr. Ratliff. Yeah. A couple of technical questions. If the garages weren't enclosed, would you allow tandem parkin tandem s that allowed, no, because the parking space would have to have open access in and out. And if there was a parking space behind the garage, the person inside the garage, I guess in this case would not have open access. And so we wouldn't be able to consid wouldn't be able to consider it a parking space. Okay. So even if the garage didn't have a door, one of those still wouldn't count under current parking code. I think we would allow the one space to count, but not both, right? Tha you don't get it either way under current, whether it's enclosed or not. Enclosed not. Enclosed under current code, you don't get to count both of them. Either way, you'd count one of them correct? Okay. Second, do you and I can ask this, the applicant in a minute of the 29 spaces that are under the overhang, are those going to be assigned, like the garage assigned, like the garage units to different apartments? I am not sure, you can address. I'm going to I'm going to assume that they will. And because here's my question. If we assume that those are assigned to different units, that only leaves 11 surface standard size surface parking spaces and 69 compact spaces for visitors and non assigned tenants, which means 80% 90% of the remaining spaces are compact, and I've been in Texas a long time that don't work right. There's going to be a lot and SUVs and 80% ofr parking spaces not assigned. parking spaces not assigned. Being compact doesn't work. And so I realize that might meet the ratio if we count all the tandem and garage and assigned and all that. But practically speaking, in my opinion it doesn't work. So if is there anything in the code that addresses the percentage of non assigned spaces that can be compact, visitor spaces, because that seems like a huge issue. No, the BG zoning allows up to 50% to be compact spaces of those provided on site, and then justt one other thing for consideration is the BG allows the compact spaces to be one foot narro So there's that allowance as well. They're actually smaller than where they would be elsewhere in the city.. So not only are they they're ultra compact spaces, extra compact, right. Yeah. It goes from eight ahalf. Wow, wow. Thaa bigger problem. Okay that's my question for now. Thank you, Mr. Bruno. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Well, you just answered my first question, which was, what are the standards for a compact parking space? It's seven and a half, right. Okay Okay. If, hypothetically speaking, we were to deny this application, would the previous approval of the 2022 case that was approved, would that still the plan would expire if this is rejected, expire? I don't believe so. If this is approved, it would supersede the personal. But if it's denied, I if it's denied, I think the other one's still valid. Other one's still valid. Okay What does the previously approved plan provide? What would they be left with in in that situation under the previously approved plan as as part of their multifamily development? Yes. They would be able to build the multifamily with 129 units. Okay on a podium platform with tuck under. Okay. Now what does the current plan provide that is different from or in addition to what has already been approved? So there is that additional, point to anchor parking or point to acre lot. That would be helpful to provide providing more surface parking. And so it just accommodates their redesign of the site. Okay. Thank you. I'll have some comments later, especially about compact parking, but I'll reserve those. I think though, what you bring up a good point is they're adding acreage that somehow the parking now is more of a problem, and it's because they're moving from a podium construction to more surface. Right? Is that what's going on? Basically Correct. That's correct. Okay Mr. Bronsky, so I definitely share the concern about parking, I have a question about the EDA as well. Under the previous, plased at that time? d so there's no difference or is there a difference? So part of the plan development, I think creation I think some of the stipulations kind of address the concerns. So that's why there is that landscaping on the West side, along the west side, there is a required ten foot landscape buffer. And so it was partially addressed then, but with the with bringing in the new part of the new property to the site, it requires the site to meet the guidelines. And so that's why we had to readdress the guidelines this time. And to, you know, get a new noise study and, to make sure that the whole site would be in compliance. So the previous site plan was approved under the zoning that was approved in 2016, which predates the expressway corridor map. Right. So the fact that they're opening up the zoning now, that makes them subject to those requirements. Okay, so hold on. I had a second question, but I lost my computer. I do want to add one note about the noise mitigation. It wasn't on the slides, but there is also a proposed, like a six foot masonry or metal wall for any usable open space. So that's to help any noise mitigation on the property. Okay I'm sorry Mike. My. You lost me. Yeah. You'll find it. Okay. No more questions. Thank you. We will open the public hearing and we'll let the applicant. The applicants here? Yes Good evening. My name is Mark Leone with Cross Architects. My address is 879 Junction Drive, Allen, Texas, first I just want to start off by saying thank you all for spending your Monday rey appreciate it. Thanks for your time, let's talk about the elephant in the room. Why are we coming back to you withe we coming back to you with the same unit count on a different piece of land when we've already been approved. The answer is. Unfortunately financial. If you have gone and tried to buy a house recently, a car, a refinance, anything in the last two years, I'm sure you've noticed interest rates have risen quite a bit in the becaus, the site plan that was previously approved by the same previously approved by the same commission, is no longer financially feasible, we feel that the city and that surrounding PD with the Patriot Park as well as with the TSA h c lot, that's in the northeast corner, they have brought the necessary and needed affordable housing component to that area, our goal is to bring a luxury market rate pro a luxury market rate product, so when our owner, Pioneer Development, came to our office, cross architects, struggling with trying to make this site be financially feasible, in today's market, that was the task that we were given. How do we still get the same 129 units on there? H, and how do we bring a luxury apartment project to the city? And that's what we're presenting for you today, in order to do that, do we have my presentation, if you don't mind pulling that up, I believe I shared that with staff. Thank you. John. And while John's doing that, I did want to say that we've been working with city staff since November on this site with John Kim Raja, Mike Bell, city staff, just going through this project. They have been immensely helpful in guiding in guiding us through this, very detailed PD. There are a lot of layers to this that have complicated it, but with their guidance, we've, come to this point towe're ready to present,e proud of and we're hoping that you'll support. So, we did put together just a real quick, color site plan all the zoning site plans that we submitted previously just had a million noteseviously just had a million notes on them, and we want to put something together that was easily legible for us all to kind of look at. So like we've been describing originally on the site plan, was one large podium building that covered the entire site. There was no roadway cutting north and south through the project at all. It was a single building, podium style, meaning garage parking underneath three stories of residential above what we're noe building into two. Essentially, we'll have a building on the west side oriented north and south, and we'll have another south, and we'll have another building over on the east side, again, oriented north and south, because we're not quite square , because we're not one single building. We did go to Mr. Walker, who to Mr. Walker, who owns that currently landlocked single family lot on the North side, facing onto 14th Street, and we are currently in land agreements with him to purchase his land. If this is all approved, and we used his lot in order to kind of get the parking that we needed to support the same unit count. So just to kind of walk through some of those items, like I said, know that what's been talked a lot has been parking concerns, and we are well aware of the fact that we're required to have 142 parking stalls. And we have exactly 142 parking stalls. exactly 142 parking stalls. So we are right on the cusp, if you don't mind, let's see, I will. Here we go there were a couple areas, items that were brought up about parking that I want to up about parking that I want to kind of discuss in particular, one of the things that kind of made the site a little, when the previous architect went through this in 2022, was a few revisions have been made, or different interpretations are occurring, we have been required to install a fire lane going through the site right now. As you can see, let me flip forwary exhibit, right here. This was done, that approved all the joint use access agreement in the entire PD. You can see the stippled fire lane area is the approved fire lane as granted by the City of Plano. Let me go back to our site plan now. You will see that we have now been required to provide a 26 foot wide fire lane running north and south through the site that was not required previously. So that's one of the areas we're working around. Another one of the areas that I'll point out is if you look on this exhibit right here, this is a blow up of 14th Street to the northeast of our project, there's currently a project under construction right now as well as another project that's across on the north side of 14th Street. The areas that I've highlighted in red is where parking has been approved and allowed by the city. Currently, it's either existing right now or it's under construction to be installed. We are not being afforded the same allowances on our project just feet away within the same exact PD, just to be clear. So the parking on the right side that's angled the south side of 14th Street, you can see it's angled in there. And then as well as the parallel stall that's right there in front of Mr. Walker's site, that is not being allowed on our project, which we understand. We're in full compliance with. We worked with city staff to work through those. If we were to be allowed to do the same kind of parking that is being allowed within the same bed immediately next to us, under construction today, we could go to this exhibit that I'm showing here, where we could potentially add about ten more parking stalls. It would be standard parking stalls, full size parking stalls. In order to grow our parking from that bare minimum. 142 growing it up to possibly about 150 to 155. It's the range where we're about, two areas that were also brought up. You see, the red You see, the red circled area that says refer to P5 on the left, the western building, one of the concerns was the garage stalls and those not counting towards parking because of concerns of them being used as storage and the fact that they're just not allowed in the city of Plano to count as parking, we understand that concern, we've been in the We build projects all over the tech, all over the state of Texas for those of Texas for those 20 years. And I totally understand that some people will use these as storage to prevent that from happening. This is the smallest garage that the project will support. Every other garage is this size or bigger? What we're proposing is to intentionally put a storage closet in the garage stalls in order to prevent people from using this as just storage. We're putting a door on it, making sure the door is accessible from only within the garage, and we're also. And also to make it more appealing, make it used for parking and not for storage is we are adding an EV charging stall within every single garage stall as well, just so that way again, it's an amenity that we're offering for the tenants. It's a rentable item and we're trying to encourage people to use these as garage parking. And just to make the city be comfortable with the fact that it's going to be used for parking one of the other items that was brought up, I'll go back to this eastern buildine the red circled area on the eastern building says, refer to the page number four. It was brought up. There were concerns about the columns that wod support the podium parking on the eastern building. Here is a blown up exhibit of that parking, as well as a letter from, our structural engineer. This is an engineer that we've worked with for about 15 years now in our office, he has been brought on board preliminarily for is project. Obviously, we have not gone through zoning completely, so he hasn't been fully released, but we've given him layouts for the building, spaces for the building. We've assigned four inches of space for the paint stripe itself, we have spoken with the structural engineer who's licensed in the state of Texas and he says a eight inch diameter post, spaced at 27ft on center. So every three parking stalls, essentially you'll have an eight inch diameter post. That eight inch diameter post will sit on the four inch parking stripe, which means it'll extend two inches on either side. So you have an eight inch space. We have sufficient space under our building in order to accommodate all the parking that we're showing. Without those columns going into any parking by any measurable amount. So all the parking under the eastern building is compact parked. It does. Sorry. It is standard come you can see right here a letter stamped and sealed from an engineer licensed in the state of Texas verifying that for us, as far as the size of the post, that is toe very particular is what he's approving. So in summary, again, our goal is we're still wanting to bring that luxury high end project to the city, and we're trying to work within all the guidelines that the city has. As we've talked about, there have been ise studies that's been required. There was originally a noise study on the previously approved site plan. Apparently, that noise study expired. So we went ahead and spent that dollar amount, hired a third party noise study consultant. They were out on site. They measured the noise. And we are in full compliance with what they're proposing, city staff also shared with us their typical noise mitigations, we have no problems with that and will comply with all the things required by that as well, additionally, there is a single family lot that's kind of landlocked to our south, facing on, I guess that'd be the 14th Street Connector, the other side of 14th Street, we have approached that lady who owns that property. She is very not willing to sell, I think the statement that she made to our client was that she was going to die in that home. So we are supporting what she wants, we have provided the fence around her. There's also a landscape buffer that we are going to be more than happy to provide. And additionally today currently as as what has been allowed by the city, there is currently a transformer in her ten foot setback that is existing that has been allowed, and we are more than happy relocate that to get that out of her. Ten foot buffer, as well as provi the landscaping that's required, and then to just kind of talk a little bit big picture about the project. These are just one and two bedroom units, like we talked about briefly a moment before when we were talking about the parking requirement and what is required. We are proposing 103 one bedroom units and then 26 two bedroom units. So we are doing that 80, 80 to o 20% ratio, 20. Would be twos, 80% would be ones. You can see up corner that western building, kind of the pink area at the top. That's our clubhouse amenity area where leasing will occur. We have a high end finished, fitness center in there. And then that blue area that's just south of it in the middle. We are notching into the building and creating a luxury resort style pool, as John Kim mentioned earlier, because of the noise study, we're also providing that solid masonry wall with the living green screen running the entire western length of our property, screening us from the existing commercial to our west. So I think that kind of summarizes some of ng with, that we've been working through, kind of presenting our project. If you have any questions or comments for me, please let me know. I'm happy to answer any particulars, big or small. Quickly. And then, I don't see that we've got any other speakers on this item. Right? There are none. No, well, then we'll we'll take our turns, I guess. But are you disputing the number of compact spaces, then? I mean, when you walk through the garage or underneath parking with the eight inch post sound like you were saying those were standard, not compact. So is there a dispute between you and staff on what's compact and what's standard? Yes, there was a sll dispute. We claimed that they were going to be standard and then staff had concerns because of the post that would be needed to support the building, that those posts would interfere with the standard parking stall and reverit to a compact, because the post, hence my Overdetailed exhibit showing that we would have the four inc paint stripe, the eight inch post, and then that would not interfere with the required clearance for the parking stall. So how wide are those spaces? Those would be your standard nine foot wide parking stalls. But in the in nt they're being counted as compact. We are counting them as standard and but as staff counting in the standard or compact those are standard correct. Okay. That is that is correct. Okay. Staff was concerned the ratio is still though 63% compact. No. We are at 49% max compact currently. If u count the garage and the tandem there at 40 that is correct. Yes Not under standard regulations. They're at 63. Right okay. We're at 142 parking stalls. And if you count the 23 garages and the ten tandems, that's 33 total. If you count those into the 142, we are at 49% compact. If you don't count those as parking stalls, those 33, then yes, obviously the ratio would increase and the 49% would go up. And we would basically say those 33 parkin sg stalls are just space. You mentioned also the treatment the other development is receiving with that parking. That's being provided by the being provided by the city, I guess, or I'm not sure that the red blocks that you pointed out, like right there, or by the other developer, or where are those coming from? I am under the impression, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that's part of that development that's being built that that's being built that was approved on their site plan. Some of those along the north have been there for a long, long time. Those kind of perpendicular spaces, those are with existing multifamily from the 80s, probably. Okay. The rest have been built by those developmentshe reason those are allowed where they are, they meet the visibility requirements onhis side there where you see them here, the road is straight, but on the subject property, the road curves an so they don't meet the visibility requirements to have on street parking West of the driveway. You'll see right there that very first parallel stall on the bottom left hand corner. That's right there on F Avenue. If you were to mirror that stall on the other side of F Avenue, we attempted to put a parking stall there and we were told it's not in compliance. However, there is one that's being allowed on the property immediately next to us with the same visibility on the same F Avenue on a straight road. Okay. And the same thing with that angled parking. I don't know if that's city public parking or not, I just know it's under construction on 14th Street. Literally 50ft down the road from our project within fre same PD, and we are not doing parking like that, whereas if we'd have been allowed to, we coul the 142. Okay. I think the issue is think the issue is the traffic moving eastbound. Those spaces are adjacent to the stop sign versus moving further east of the inthe intersection. Okay okay. Other questions for the applicant, Mr. Ratliff, going back to my question that I asked staff the 29 spaces that are underneath the standard spaces is your is that your intent? Those would be assigned to those units assigned to those units that those would be reserved spaces for those units. The only parking stalls that will be reserved would be the garages, everything else. And the tandems of course, those tandems would be linked to. And I apologize fo There are ten tandem stalls. There are 26 two bedrooms on site. We would lease the garages to two bedroom units and that tandem stall would come along with. It would be the intention, and then the parking that you're speaking about under that eastern building would be first come, first serve. Okay So how you heard my comment about compact parking, especially 7.5ft spaces, you're a designer. I don't know what kind of car you drive, but how do you address my concern about having the overwhelming majority of your visitor? What I would consider visitor spaces be compact? I would say we're in conformance with what the PD is allowing, which says 50. So we're we are in compliance with what the city has allowed for that 50% within the PD one two, three as it's outlined, I agree that it's not the best design in the state of Texas. We all know probably half the cars in here d F-150s have two hitches on the back of them, if some of the variances that I'm suggesting in is exhibit that's in red are allowed, we'd be more than happy to add additional parking in order parking in order to remedy the problem that we know exists. But we are in conformance with what the city is allow that 49. Okay. And then on your garage spaces, I think one of the staff's concerns is it's impossible for the code enforcement to police the use of garages. They're going to be closed. No way to know whether people are using for parknow, frankly or no way for the landlord to know, if they're being used for parking or storage, probably, so how how does the landlord intend to police that, so it doesn't create a parking problem? I'd imagine that couldimagine that d simply by putting language into the lease. You know what is and isn't allowed in the use of those garages by. You know, I know younger man and living in apartments, before I had kids and a wife, I've signed many leases and had many garages, and I know a lot livedt allow like mini fridges or you couldn't put grills in there or you couldn't do things like that. I'm sure we that. I'm sure we could easily put language into the lease agreement that stipulated what could. And couldn't occur in those garages. If that was a concern and I could speak to my client to verify, that's accurate. But I don't see why that would be an issue, because we don't want storage occurring in there. Okay. Thank you. Mr. Bronsky yeah. So my question ste landscaping, although the fence is installed on the site, no additional landscaping is provided. And it sounds like there's going to be an additional landscaping requirements. And it says the applicant has designated where the utility box will be, they're talking about the relocation of the utility boxes. Is that going to be something that's going cor to us, that would be required on the site plan, which is the next stage, and it would be staff level approval. Okay. That's the only question I had anyone else? Okay. Thank you so much for your time. We'll close the time. We'll close the public hearing. Mr. Bernoff, I did have a question for staff. Is the 7.5ft width for a provision just of the PD, or is it a provision of city ordinance? City ordinance? Only within the BG district? Only within the BG district. Okay. It's 8.5ft elsewhere in the city. Okay. Thank you. I get that the number of units is not being increased, and that adding 2/10 of an acre to the PD will marginally reduce the density. Okay I think also that's a minor consideration, I am comfortable with the mediation with respect to the Ada district, the interior of the buildings are to be mitigated down to 45dB. I think that's what's required. And that's adequate with respect to exterior noise. Noise levels, our ordinance requires, levels, our ordinance requires, you know, establishes an A1 district where exterior noise levels are 65 to 74dB. You know, less than 75. But it provides that sensitive uses can be established with sufficient mitigation. And looking at their site plan, the only usable open space, usable for activities, in the pool area, which is to be mitigated by a wall that, according to their, r noise study, will reduce the noise level below 65dB. So that's mitigated. Everything else on the west side is just parking spaces, and as far as I'm concerned, that's not a usable, exterior space. Also, balconies are to be eliminated on the western side of the weste western building facing the highway. So, I'm satisfied as fare is concerned with respect to parking, as you all know, I've serve served on planning and zoning commissions in two cities, and I've seen any number of plans come forward with a certain number of spaces of, you know, for a designated for compact parking, and I remember the director of public works in Irving telling us on one of those cases that, you know, people don't just, you know, it's not just compact cars that are parking in there. People with big cars park in those compact spaces, including my Buick. And that was back when Buicks built big cars. And in that case, we were dealing with eight foot wide compact spaces. Now we're dealing with here 7.5ft wide. And I foresee people even in a compact car having difficulty just getting in and out of their cars. Ifand out of their cars. If there's a car parked next to them in a 7.5ft wide space, or at the very least, they're going to be bumping their car door against the side of the adjacent car, if any directly in the dead center of that compact parking space, it edges over to one side or the other, or even encroaches across the line, it could well render the adjacent space unusable even uny compact cars, I have visions of people going through all kinds of bodily contortions just getting into and out of their cars, if they're, you know, people of more than, you know, slender physique, especially, and the impression that I have built, you know, formed over the years is that a large number of so-called compact parking spaces is an indication of trying to build too much building on a lot that's too small, lot that's too small, or to put it figuratively, you know, trying to stuff a 10 pound sausage into a 5 pound casing, and that's what I think we have here because of the large number of compact spaces. And I think seven and a half, it may be in the ordinance, but I think it's practically unworkable do? Theye their building smaller and create more space for parking spaces. They could, have a greater percentage of one bedroom apartments requiring fewer spaces, as opposed to two bedroom units, I would like to see them explore the their opti, to try to reduce the, you know, the number of so-called compacte someone driving a compact car looking for a compact for a comg space to put it in. If I'm driving a compact car and I see a 7.5ft space and I see a nine foot space, I'm heading for that nine foot space. thinks he can s these issues and would like some time to do it, I could support a, you know, a postponement fopt a, you know, a postponement for that purpose. But I don't think I can support this case in its present form. Thank you. Commissioner Tom, I have a question for the staff, regarding that, solution of, having extra space on 14th Street. I understand that, we have requirements on where they can have that on street parking or where they cannot, is there any chance or any possibility that we can work with the applicants to just allow maybe a few more parking spaces there? Because I can see where the applicants are coming from. I totally understand where, Commissioner runoff and Commissioner Rallis came from regarding the size of the, compact space. However, I also understand that's our ordinance, right? We can't blame the applicants to follow our ordinance to do that. So I'm thinking if we want I'm thinking if we want to come up with a solution for the applicants, maybe we can consider somehow work with the on street parking. If there's any concern with the on street parking is it doesn't meet our engineering standards and the power to approve variations to that is with the director of engineering. So if we were going to do that, we would need to bring the Director of engineering to see what might be a feas prepared to respond to that tonight. Well, it I'm going to put forth a suggestion that we consider tabling this. I don't know what their timeline is and if they're up against something and this is going to run out next month or something, but, I don't really have any issues of the project othave any issues of the project other than I agree. And to the extent that yes, we design compact spaces to be 7.5ft, that's great. If youar owners to only those spaces which you're not going to be able toe not going to be able to do, they're going to park wherever they see an opening. So I just there's no wiggle room. We have, we have approved Oaks, but theyd excess parking. And so there wasn't going to be an issue. But in this case, you almost are requiring those tandem spaces to meet the requirements. And I just, I feel like with a feel le more work, we can probably get this done. Commissioner Kerry. I'm really conflicted on this whole thing, I think all the comments have have beenhat we he an ordinance with regardless of where we think everybody's going to park, we have an ordinance, you know, I, gosh, I have concerns that Plano continues to turn into a rental town. As, as we can increase that versus single family homes. With that said, I think if there's a place for apas a place for apartments, I believe our downtown can benefit from, from more density. And so I'm conflicted by this. And, not not exactly sure where I stand, but I but I think some of the suggestions that have been made is, is there a way for us to mae this palatable for, for our city? It seems to be the right idea to me, depending on their timelines. So, you know, I like the fact, I like the fact that they're going to bring us some more density to our downtown. And I think that's a good thing. Mr. Rut, sorry. Should I go? Ladies first? Yes. Go ahead. Well, my question to staff, you know, like, is there like a provision for remote parking they can find offsite parking, they have to secure it through an easement, which is typically the challenge. A lot of people aren't willing to give up that, that parkingilling to give up t, that parking is so valuable downtown. But it's possible, like if there's like a public parking or something that they could use. Yes. So there's two options. One is to get credit for available public parking. I don't think there's any available in the immediate location here, the second is to provide to acquire an easement on someone else's property for their excess parking spaces if they could secure it, there's a distance 300ft. It has to be win 300ft of the property. Is that correct? Donna Yes. 300ft. Thank you. Timed that perfectly. You saw she was going to take a drink?u know, like they can explore again I think there's other options and we can optiont there. We just I think we need to give them an opportunity to, to work through that. I like I like the idea I like I agreeike we need more density in downtown. And I think it's, you know, like this, especially the location of those next to the, like a lot of amenities. Other amenities are good. Mr. Ratliff, thank you. Yeah. Conceptually, I have no problem Conceptually, I have no problem with the project. I mean, I think I have no problem with the rezoning and adding that parcel to the PD. I e additional units, obviously, we've approved those before, my only issue is the parking, and I think that I think we've got to make sure that it works and the challenge in that particular part of town town is there's noy really overflow opportunity on a I live two blocks from there and there's on a Friday night. I mean, you know, if you haven't been there on a Friday night, fish and tails is overflowing and parking everywhere and there's and there's no extra space. I mean, there's just not. And so and the only place it would overflow would be over into Patriot Park and on a weekend that lot is full. And so, which tells me they'dhe band I'm willing to bet Frost wouldn't be real crazy about that. So, I that's my biggest concern is figuring out how to make the parking work, and I'm, you know, no offense, but I'm not convinced that the tenants won't use the garages for storage, I've seen itor storage, I've seen it. You've seen it. You know, it'll happen in half the units or more. And or at least there will be enough stuff in the garages that they won't be able to use them for parking, it may not be completely full, but there will be enough in it that the car doesn't fit. And so, Iem parking. If they're assigned to the same unit, but I do unit, ba problem with tandem parking and garages and so I think there's got to be a, a place to work this out. But, I guess my question would be to staff is if we give them another couple of weeks or another month, do we think we can find a solution? Do we can work with the applicant and find an answer? And maybe that's a question for the applicant. But I know we've closed the public hearing. So, I hate to deny it because then we're back to what's alrea we're back to what's already been approved, which they say isn't feasible, I'd like to give them the opportunity to work on it a little bit more. If there's ti. I think what specifically is the direction on the parking is direction on the parking is it providing, not providing garage? Is it not providing tandem? Is it a certain percentage of on street that you're trying to get That's kind of the information we would need to know, if the applicant is willing staff is always willing to work with applicants to get their projects over the finish line. So we're certainly willing to do that here. If there's willingness on thei part, I'll speak for myself. I don't know about the rest of commission. I'm not comfortable counting enclosed garage spaces, and I don't think the staff is either. And, and, but I am comfortable counting tandem am comfortable counting tandem spaces. If they're both assigned to the same unit, and neither one of them is enclosed. That's my personal opinion., bu. Assuming you're still willing to continue working with staff to resolve the parking. Absolutely. Yeah. We don't we're not restricted. I mean, obviously, the sooner the better. Constructi always works on a tight timeline, but, my client owns the property, he's owned it for quite a while now, it's been an undeveloped piece of land for longer than we've all been around, so we're more than happy to come back with a more sharpened pencil. Okay try to solve this parking issue. I'm hearing that we're kind of happy with the product, but the parking is a concern, and I'm in 100% agreement with youI have some potential solutions. We could talk about them here. If this isn't the appropriate forum, I can speak with city staff. I would work through staff. Absolutely. But yes, short answer to your question. Yes absolutely. Mr. chairman. Yes. I'm gonna ask him how much time would he like to havke to ? Well, he would like it to be tonight, but. Well, yeah. For what, two weeks? Four weeks? What? When's your next PNC meeting? We'll be ready August 5th. There you go. We'll be time. I think that's too quick. I think that's too quick. I think, honestly, I think September is the is a accurate timeline. September 3rd. Yes September 3rd is w September 3rd is what I'm hearing. Nine 324. No way we can do it. Anything in August. Okay. It's the day after Labor Day. Is that okay? The first Tuesday for useryone's checking calendars, but yes okay. Thank you okay. okay. Thank you okay. Thank you Mr. Bronsky. So, I'm not really convinced that this can be done, but I'm willing to give him a shot, so I move, we table agenda item five A to our September 3rd, 2024 Planning and Zoning Commission meeting. Okay, so I have a motion by Commissioner Bronsky with a second by Commissioner al-Ali. Is that right? Al-Ali. Did I get that right? Okay, to table item five A until September 3rd, 2024. Please vote. And that carries seven Ite we table item five B to the September 3rd, 2024 Planning and Zoning Commission meeting, meete did with five eight. A motion by Commissioner Bronsky second by Commissioner al-Ali to table item five B to September 3rd, 2024. Please vote. That item also carries seven zero. Thank you. every confidence you guys will work it out. It's a good project. You just got It'sa good project. You just got to find a little more wiggle room. Item six please. Non public hearing items. The presiding officer will permit limited public comment for items on the agenda not posted for public hearing. The presiding officer may establ presiding officer may establish time limits based upon the number of speaker requests, length of agenda and to ensure meeting efficiency, and may include a total time limit. Six revised site Plan Crosspoint Plaza block a lot three. Restaurant on one lot on 0.7 acre. Located on the north side of Spring Creek Parkway, Road. Zoned retail with specific use Permit number 630 for private club 630 for private club applicant is Manuel Manuel R and Maria del Carmen Sanchez. This is for legislative consideration of parking reduction. The purpose for the revised site plan is to propose a 294 square foot addition to the existing restaurant, along with a new dumpster and parking. The applicant is also requesting a 20% parking reduction from the commission. commission. 46 parking spaces are required based on the building and patio square. Footage of the restaurant. The applicant has added 12 spaces through restriping and removal of a, but a 20% reduction is still needed per the letter in the packet from the applicant. The Commission is able to grant a 20% reduction under the following conditions one. The reduction is not anticipated to create parking issues. Two the reduction is not anticipated to result in parking spillover into any adjacent neighborhoods. Three available parking has not been impacted by vehicle storage or other site modifications, and four the site is not under condominium, condominium ownership unless all owner participation is verified and the site verified and the site plan does comply with these conditions. And I'm happy to answer any questions. Thank you. Questions for staff. Yeah. Commissioner Tong, do you know the capacity of the building, we can get the square footage for you. I don't know the total occupancy, but, we could get the building square footage, square foot. Thank you. I'm sorry. Say that again. 49,747ft■!S. That's the square feet of the building that may be the lot area. Is that the lot? Okay yes. Well, I'm just wondering if the capacity allows. I can tell exactly how big the restaurant is. If it allows 200 people to sit and you have only 46 parking spots that doesn't make sense. However, I'm just speculating. I don't know those numbers. Yeah, yeah, I think the zoning ordinance uses square footage for its parking ratio. It's one per 100ft■!S. Assuming that's adequate to seat everyone. Got it. Thank you. Yeah, and there's total building plus the patio area is 4500ft■!, but a portion of the building is taken up by kitchen and restrooms. And everything else. So. Okay, any other questions for staff? Okay Thank you. I'll open the public hearing and we haveons. And then we have somebody. So it's a non public hearing item. Oh that's true. It is a non public hearingis a non. But we still allow people to speak. Yes open the hearing. But don't get me started. It's a non public hearing item. But we'rehearing o hear you speak. Thank you. Are you a member of the public. Yes. Then it is a public hearing. Sorry am I. I don't know I'm Kendall Funseth. I'm with Spires Engineering. So we're the engineer with the applicant who's doing the site. And I sent Donna a couple of slides. Perfect So with the site existiu can kind of see on here that there are 2 are 24 spaces provi. And the required with the 1 to 100ft■!S before conditions would be 43 spaces up there. As you can see conditions that we're proposing, we are in addition to getting the fire lane in the d lane in s up to code, we are adding 13 additional spaces to the site so that there will be 37 spaces total instead of the existing 23. And we've coordinated extensively with staff for the best layou and to fit in as much parking as possible. And that included getting rid of the drive through to add parking spaces. Yeah. So the additional 300ft■!S that we're adding, really, that's the only addition to the building would require if f you're doing the 1 to 100 ratio, 13 to try and get it as close to that 100% as possible. And it will meet that 80. Okay. Oh quick question to the applicants. I see the parking spaces kind of to the northeast corner of your lot. Do you know if they are, kind of, sometimes n be used by your customers? Is there any agreements between your lot and the neighbor? Not that I'm aware of, but I don't know if you know more on that or. But our lot should meet that 80% reduction that we're requesting. And there's no formal shared parking agreement with the adjacent lothe adjaceno they're required to have their own. But I live next to there for like ten years, and that parking lot is yeah yeah. They'e not going to have any trouble finding parking I don't think. But to understand any other questions, Mr. Kerry, what is this restaurant? What what is it being proposed as? Yes, a casa mama. Yeah Sounds good. I know. Any other questions? Noy other l right. Thank you. Cool. Thank you all. Thus ends our nono I'm really excited. I live probably less than a quarter mile from here. And have had conversations with have had conversations with several people in the neighborhood wanting to know what exactly was going on here. So I'm really excited to say that I move that for item six, that we approve it as recommended by staff We haven by Commissioner Bronsky with a second by Commissioner Lolly to approve item six. I'll vote. That's seven zero. Go make some good foodmake some good food. Okay now we're on to item seven. Was a report related to my thing. Go. Agenda item number seven. Discussion introduction to the Zoning and Subdivision Ordinance rewrite project presentation and discussion of the zoning ordinance and Subdivision Ordinance Rewrite project, which will update and align regulations with city policy and adopt a documents. Mr. chairman, will this be a good time for a quick break? Yep. Yeah. All right. It's 942. Just get back ASAP because we're almost done. They've had lots of practice with long nights at CPAC, so they're good. So we're in recess until 945 ish. We are reconvening at 948 for item number seven. Yes Discussion. Introduction to the Zoning and Subdivision Ordinance. Rewrite project presentation and discussion of the zoning ordinance and of the zoning ordinance and subdivision Ordinance rewrite project, which will update and align regulations with the city policy and adopted documents. Good evening again. All right. So this is a quick update on the zoning ordinance and subdivision Ordinanceing about this for quite some time. It's been on the P and Z work program for a while.while. There have been pec updates and revisions to individual sections of the zoning and subdi years, such as the recent street design standards. But the last significant update and reorganization of the ordinances was back in 2015. And certain sections can be dated back to the 1986 ordinance. This rewrite is an opportunity to modernize our development regulations and also ensure consistency with other recently adopted plans and policies, such as the Comprehensive Plan 2021. So were identified. Those are all listed in your packet. Some of the highlightsour packet. Some of te highlights are to incentivize development, simplify the development process, make the ordinance more user friendly and again, to align our of the comp plan. As it is a large project, we do have some consultants involved in the rewrite. The primary consultant is Frisco Nichols. They're an engineering and planning firm located in Dallas. Theynsultant on the come plan. We have two representatives from Fnai here tonight. Dan Sopko and Daniel Harrison. They will be available for any questions after my presentation. Should you have any. e city attorney will also be supported by outside counsel. They will provide peer review of the new development regulations and help our city solicitors maintain their existing workload. Separately, there will be a contract related to technology. This is going to be a later phase of the project. The city Council recently appointed ano be put in place to provide expert feedback to the consultant and committee is composed of all Plano residents with technical expertise in zoning and development, and it does include a two planning and zoning commissioners. The project itself consists of three distinct phases the first phase is a d analysis of our existing regulations. The second phase is a module development. So we have divided the two ordinances into four modules that we will tackle in chunks. And the third phase is adoption of the ne of the new development regulations. The Commission will be involved throughout this rewrite project. There's the quick introduction tonight, and we will have additional discussion items planned for regular, commission agendas. There will be two for the diagnostic report. One will be a briefing on the report, and then one will be after the report has been finished, we will have one discussion item for each of the four modules. After they have been vetted by our, advisory committee. And we do have one additional briefing that we're available to schedule as needed. All of the commissioners have also been invited to participate in the stakeholder interviews as part of the diagnostic phase. Those are being conducted by Teresa Nichols. Once we get into the adoption phase, there will be a joint workshop with City Council on the complete development regulations. So both the zoning and the subdivision ordinances. And finally, there will be a public hearing for the adoption of those ordinances. One will be with Prns and the second with the city council. Public involvement will be somewhat limited compared to what we've seen in the past, with the comprehensivplan. This is because the zoning ordinance and the subdivision ordinance are rooted in the policies of the Comprehensive Plan that have already been vetted and endorsed by the community. And these two documents are very technical. In nature, which why we have that advisory committee. However there are still outreach and involvement opportunities. We have identified some key stakeholders in the public that we will be holding those interviews with. There will be a project web page launching with key information and staff contact. Again, there will be discussion items placed on the regular P and Z agendas, where people can see what's happening and speak to any of those items. Staff will be providing updates to the City uncil as we reach various milestones, so there will be items on council agendas once we get to the public hearing phase. There are the associated notices required for public hearings, and we will also be mailing a citywide notice to all the addresses in Plano. This is a large project, so we have considered some out of scope items. We do have the ability to add additional meetings with staff with the planning and Zoning Commission, and with council and the consultant has placed some, costs on those items should we need to add them. We're also not considering any changes to the zoning map, but if those are needed, those will be completed by staff, not the consultant. So next steps in this project, this is a next step. But the project kickoff was last week on Friday. That was a meeting between the consultant and staff, as well as a bus tour of the city. The first meeting with our rewrite advisory committee will be this week on Wednesday, July 17th. We will be starting those focus groups stakeholder interviews this week and running through next week, and we anticipate coming back to the commission sometime in Seember of this year with that first diagnostic report briefing. So no action required on this. I'm happy to answer any questions. And again, we do have two representatives from the consultant here tonigh. Thank you. Appreciate it. Looking forward to getting it kicked off, you know I've timed my exit just about right the end of October. So good luck, guys, and, enjoy yourselves, do you want to come up and speak, just quickly for a couple of minutes? Thank you very much. My name is Dan Stefko. With me is Daniel Harrison. We as I mentioned in the pre meeting, in the pre meeting, we, appreciate being invited back. We think we have a good background and a, a lot of history that we can apply to this effort, I also mentioned that we're, hoping to set the table for all the development that's going to occur in Plano. I think we saw three cases help, the soccer case, the apartment t case and the last one are all examples of people wanting to use, these pieces of infill property in the most efficient way possible. And we ought to Ao have a better way to hopefully deal with those that maybe staff can apply the a little more, specifically. And then leave policy decisions up to you all where they should be, where they should be. So with all that said, we're, we appreciate having a chance to do this. It's going to be a long process. We ha it's over a year. Wre sorry, Mr. Downs. You're not going to be. I know you were, as as Mr. Kerry was available during the was available during the comprehensive plan process, but we're sorry you're not going tol be watching. So, that's all I have to say. I'll be glad to ask any questions or answer any questions that you may have, any thoughts or comments? I just, I think I have one comment. Yes. Go ahead. I think it I think itt decision to invite Freese and Nichols back, the comprehensive plan went very well, and I feel like they have a very strong understanding of what our community is looking for and working with them on the rewrite. I very much look forward to the same type of effort that they put forward before. So I'm excited to have them working with us. We are fortunate to have, Mr. Bronsky and, Mr. Ratliff on the rewrite committee. So they'll have, you'llsion will be, well represented. And Mr. Bronsky was on the committee when we worked through the comprehensive plan.d through the comprehensive plan. So he has a lot of history. He has as much history as we do. Yeah, on the comprehensive plan. So he'll be very, very valuable throughout the process. Thank you very much for being here. Your patience for hanging out this evening. Glad glad to do it. Thank you all and we'll see you, all of. Okay. Item eight. Discussion and direction 2024 Comprehensive Plan Maintenanceer miscellaneous actions. Discussion and direction of recommended updates of regionalism. Pillar and other miscellaneous. Pillar and other miscellaneous actions of the Comprehensive Plan associated with the 2024 Comprehensive Plan Maintenance Review. Good evening. Commission. My name is Mariam Zaheer, planner with the planning department. Can you pull the mic down a little closer to you? Not so much for us, but for anybody at home that's there. You Okay so a mentioned, this is a discussion and direction item regarding the regionalism pillar as wellgardie regionalism pillar as well as other comprehensive plan action. This aligns with RGM seven. We've already kind of covered this, but we've broken this up over a ten year review cycle, this year we're looking at the economic environment pillar, which we've already brought forward, to this commission to review. And this evening we're looking at the regionalism pillar as well as other actions. So the regionalism pillar is one component, six policies and 31 actions. You can see those on the slide and their corresponding number of actions as previously mentioned, there are kind of two different sets of updates. Administrative updates and those requiring a plan amendment, and then just a brief overview, we have been working with city de Various departments who have a related role, in reviewing and proping updates. So administrative updates include mir statistical updates based on current data available and fact based information, we have some sources of data that we're using for these updates, and there is also some informational uptes. Here's an example on the screen based on 2022 American Community Survey data and also the engineering department Transportation Division's project priorities ro it. So the population growth policy, we're not proposing any updates to the policy statement, and no changes are proposed to the, actions as well. The regional regional transportation policy, we are proposing a minor update to the statement itself by, including improving safety. This aligns with a, Comprehensive Plan 2021 update, which added improving safety to the regional transportation background and then there are three changes proposed to thethe actions to T, T2, and T4. For T1, the action change incorporates the way that the city considers different criteria and best practices appropriate for each project. Rather than creating a single set of criteria used to evaluate all projects. Our T2 this action change reflects that although the city aims to complete trail connections with neighboring cities, there are timeline due to funding or construction may not always align with Plano's and T4. The action change reflects the nature of regional transportation plans and that they basis, rather than annually. Next, the Next, the ay policy. There are no changes proposed to the policy statement. There are, four actions as shown proposed to be. Air quality one. The action update acknowledges the city's Anti-idling ordinance, which was adopted in 2017, and that it be reevaluated on an as needed basis. Air quality two this action change clarifies the intent of the action and places the emphasis and places the emphasis on implementing new technologies to assist with reducing air pollutants rather than idling. Detection for city vehicles, which is just one example, air quality five. The action change acknowledges the city's roadway construction policy in place, and that it be reevaluated on an lastly, air q. Six this action change reflects Plano's collaboration through regional transportationration th regional transportation agencies to implement travel demand management policies and additionally, the action is reworded here as well, to include all travel demand policies and strategies with HOV access and congestion pricing. As one example. The Regional Water Conservation Policy. There is no update proposed to the policy statement. However, five of the six actions are proposed to be updated. I just want to touch that. This cover is covered by the regional Water conservation or the city's water management plan, that was adopted in 2019, and so we really relied on that to guide these updates. So RWC one, this action change identifies the city's water management plan, which was developed in concert with the North Texas Municipal Water District's Regional Water Conservation Plan. Sorry RWC three. And thi the Parks and Ren Department's responsibility related to conserving water and reducing costs in regard to irrigation of public property. Action four or RWC four, clarifies that watering guidelines occur under normal conditions, whereas watering restrictions are enforced by the Public Works Department during drought and emergency water conditions. RWC five reflects that a recommended drought resistant and native Plant List will is anticipated to be included in the upcoming zoning or zoning ordinance rewrite in RWC six, the action change incorporates the responsibility of the Public Works Department regarding water conservation, and is in line with the city's water management plan. The consistency with neighboring cities policy. No updates are proposed to the statement. However, as seen on the screen, we are proposing updates to all four actions. CNC one reflects that coordination regarding land use and transportation occurs on an as needed basis, rather than on a fixed two year schedule. CNC two the change adds that the city also makes an effort to share programs and information with neighboring cities. CNC three the action change clarifies that vector control applies to insects, while animal control is a different method. Additionally, information is shared with Collin County and is reflected in the action change and CNC four. The action change clarifies the information that is reviewed with neighboring cities to determine parks and recreation programing, and facilities. No updates are proposed to the Regional Education Policy Statement or its And just wanted to note that this was heavily reviewed heavily reviewed and updated during the comprehensive Plan 2021, review. There are four other minor updates proposed, and they are not in line with the ten year review cycle. However, there are a result of the action updates we receive on a yearly bas from departments who have a responsibility to implement those actions. These actions are either complete or obsolete, and so the updates reflect that. For example, RWS eight, the Traffic Impact Assessment was updated in 2023. So we've updated that action to notate that it would be routinely reevaluated. PS4 the placemaking and public spaces policye're proposing for that to be removed as it's as food truck events are no longer current or future priority of the Parks and Recreation Department. However, we do want to note that that is still, that the goal of that, certain action was to activate public spaces, and that's still addressed by PS three, just not specifically addressed as it is, by PS four. The placemaking and public Spaces policy action eight that update reflects the dissolving of the historic downtown Plano Association, and now they coordinate directly with downtown businesses and stakeholders who support programing for McCall Plaza and lastly, arts and culture policy action one. And the update includes a Cultural Arts master plan, as that effort is related to the city's support of installation of public art. Those are all the proposed updates quickly covering where we are. We're here discussing the regionalism pillar, we are tentatively planning a September 5th Planning and Zoning Commission. Public hearing, but prior to that, we do plan to publish the proposed updates online, for public review. That concludes my presentation, and I'm happy to answer any questions or receive any input. Comments. Oh, wow. Lights are o. Hands are up, I guess we'll go around. Mr. Brounoff. We appreciate all your work on this subject, which is a complex subject, the comprehensive plan is a living document, and it requires review and updating and change and adaptability in order for it to remain relevant, with respect to regional transportation, I noticed there was very little reference in your proposal to Dallas area. Rapid Transit, and I would hope that, any amendments would, would include language recognizing the importance of Dallas the importance of Dallas area rapid transit in providing, regional mass transit mobility, benefiting, Plano and all of the other member cities in Dart and in providing a stimulus for economic development, including, but not mited to, transit oriented development around light rail stations, so I would like to see language that would where the city undertakes to, undertakes e and cooperate with dart and our fellow dart member cities to maximize the benefit to the city from our participation as a Dart member city. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Tom, can you go back to a slide that refers to the population policy? I know that there's no changes or anything related to it, but I felt like there might be something that we could, do with the population because I feel like our city has undergone a lot of changes in our population, its demographic and ages. Maybe I'm just not understanding what this policy is about. Is there anything we need to we need to do regarding to what our current population that's vastly different from 20 years ago or, 40 years ago? I feel like we're getting older and probably there's a shift of the, the, demographic demographc information. I'm not sure what kind of policy we could do here. I think you're but when you look at it through the lens of regionalism versus just Plano. Okay, I think that's what this this is area is just focused. This pillars the regionalism. And I think that's why perhaps I don't know, Mike, I think you were going to say something or. No, that's just my question. I don't know if we need to do something about this or not or this is the right place or not. I was just going to say I think in 2021, this this was looked at. And so we updated population figures and all those trends were fairly similar as as they are now. So I think we've hopefully accounted for that. But if you see something obviously we can always address it. So okay, sounds good to me. I do have another question. Again, I'm not sure if it's related to the regional pillar thing. It just came to my mind. I was just going to throw it out there, maybe in a different area, a different time. We can talk about it. I don't know if we have any ordinance. I know we have a lot of ordinance around putting up new signs, but do we have any ordinance about taking off the old signs? Because I know some of our,il centers areg tenants and buildings are being abandoned, but the signs are still there for a long time, especially some road signs. And, you know, you know, Jack in the box going here, the box going here, but the Jack in the box building is not there anymore. So I don't I'm not sure where we can put that into kind of a, a mandate, the owners to update their signs when the building is gone or the business is gone. Okay we can add that. I don't know if it fall under sign ordinance, I guess, but sure, probably yes. Yeah, it's actually one of the things we're looking at with the sign orringing it up. Thank you Commissioner carry. Yeah a couple of things. First of all, I'd like to address Commissioner Tong's comment about growing older. Only some of us are growing older. I'd like to start with that. So I, a serious commenterious comment, there aren't a lot of changes in here, and I think that really speaks to how well this thing got crafted to begin with. So you know, tip of the hat to everybody there. I don't see a lot of changes there. That's my opinion, I see some focus on water and traffic, and I think that's things will conte challenging for all North Texas communities. And so that's great, just one comment was, we cite a number of different things. And I guess I'd like to, as we go forward, look at exactly how not this second, but how are we going to measure these things to really see if we're making progress and we use the word regularly, which isn't very specific. And so I might challenge that word as we look forward because I don't know what it means. And then finally, Commissioner Bruno talked about dart. And I actually do know a few things about this, one that I can share, and I agree with oI know that there's council members that are digging into this deeply because the overriding belief, I think in a lot of people is that we're not getting anywhe we're not getting anywhere near the return on our investment on this. I think we're spending $117 million a year, and the ridership needs to increase. And so while maybe looking forward, it's optimistic, but. Right now we're not getting any I think a lot of people believe we're not getting anywhere near, what we're investing as a city. And here we're spending, I think, I don't know, $350,000 that almost a day I think those are accurate facts. And so I agree with you. We need to look how we're going to maximize that, if, with our surrounding communities as well. So anyway, those would be my comments. Mr. Ratliff, yeah, I think all those commentsre are I agree with all those, the one that I would like to highlight would like to highlight is the consistency with neighboring cities cities policies I've had some questions over the years about howit line, and so a question and all these are great. And I think they're all on target. Do we have a process procedure, communication protocol? When we're considering a zoning change within, I don't know, 200ft, 500ft, 1000ft of a city limit line, or when one of our neighboring cities is doing the same so that we can y'all can kind of com y'all can kind of compare notes with their planners. Is there any formal mechanism in place to do that or is it more of a ad hoc kind of arrangement? Yeah. Nothing formal. I mean, I think the directors speak often, but there's nothing formalized. Okay. Is it when y'all have one that you think is controversials there? Just a little more clarity on little more clarity on that. Yeah, I. Personally I don't I don't have a good example to give you, I think if we, if there was something on a property line hae an impact, the, residents in the adjacent community, we would certainly reach out. I think a lot of times, though, we're right across freeways from the other cities. So it doesn't come up quite as much as you might think. But I think we would certainly reach out to do that. There's just no formal process to do that. So like you said, it's ad hoc. It's if we see a concern, we do that. All right. Thank you. Mr. Bronsky. I ve a question, but I couldn't find what I was looking for. My question was related to the question was related to the population that Mrs. Commissioner Tang was talking about. When we went through the comprehensive plan, we were looking at a study, I think it was out of the University of Texas. And about the expected population growth for the region. And they use three different kinds of metrics in order to project which of the three that they were expecting us to have and the one that was projecting the largest numbers was the one that when you read the actual text of the study, was saying that this is the least possible option. Are we still using that particular study in the population, or have we chosen a different one, or have we seen that study updated or changed the North Central Texas Council of Governments demographics study that they did, th demographics y that they did, that they paid to have done. So. I don't know if they drew on UT study or they did their own forecast using economic development groups and stuff, but the number that they're showing is in 21 years, an additional 3.8 million people in DFW starting from 7.7 million. So imagine us being a close to 12 million people area. We're it's pretty astounding when you think about it it. And I think the comprehensive plan has a low and a high scenario as part of it. I mean, we project how much we're going to have based on existing zoning. But at this point, most of the growth beyond that is going to be through rezonings and redevelopment that it's really hard to predict. So we have kind of some assumptions built into that. And we look at built into that. And we look at those annually as part of our annual study of housing that goes into our annual report. Yeah, I just I couldn't remember if that if, from cog, but it actually cog, it got it somewhere else and that was part of my else and that was part of my question. I couldn't remember if that was what we used, if we were seeing it tracking that way or we were seeing a I as I said, I don't remember how accurate were the forecasts five years ago. Yeah that'orecas five years ago. Yeah that's exactly Commissioner Lolly. Anything to add? That's good. Are you. Yeah She's ready to make a motion to adjourn. That'll be her first motion on the commission. Okay, so really? No. No need for action tonight. But, I mean, everything I see looks good. Everything has been said, you know? Thank you for the hard work, I do like that, Commissioner and I think Commisr Bronsky and I have had this discussion before. And when I was And when I was sitting here looking at it, I went. It's nice to see a plan that's alive that, you know. So, well done to the staff, for this. So anything else? Anybody.