. GOOD EVENING AND. WELCOME TO THE THURSDAY FEBRUARY 20TH, 2025 MEETING OF THE BLOOMINGTON PLANNING COMMISSION. THE COMMISSION IS MADE UP OF SEVEN MEMBERS WE FIVE THIS EVENING IN THE CHAMBERS WE HAVE ONE PERSON WHO IS JOINING US ONLINE. EACH MEMBER VOLUNTEERS THEIR TIME AND IS A BLOOMINGTON RESIDENT MEMBERS ARE APPOINTED BY THE CITY COUNCIL. THE PLANNING COMMISSION IS ADVISORY TO THE CITY COUNCIL FOR MOST ITEMS THE COMMISSION MAKES RECOMMENDATIONS AND THE CITY COUNCIL IS FINAL DECISION MAKING AUTHORITY. THERE ARE CERTAIN APPLICATIONS THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION CAN APPROVE DENY ON ITS OWN SUBJECT TO THE APPEAL OF THE CITY COUNCIL. WE HAVE TWO ITEMS THIS EVENING BOTH STUDY ITEMS SO NEITHER WILL HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING. SO FOR EACH ITEM WE WILL HAVE A STAFF REPORT. THE APPLICANT FOR EACH ITEM IS THE STAFF. THEY WILL ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS AND THEN WE CLOSE THE MEETING . FIRST ORDER OF BUSINESS TONIGHT IS THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE. PLEASE STAND IF YOU'RE ABLE I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS ONE NATION UNDER GOD INDIVISIBLE WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL . ALL RIGHT. FIRST ITEM THIS EVENING IS A STUDY ITEM AS I MENTIONED IT IS THE SOUTH LOOP DISTRICT PLAN UPDATE AND OUR STUDY SESSION NUMBER TWO PLANNER RAMBLER OLSON YOU HAVE THE STAFF . THANK YOU. YES, THIS A ANOTHER STUDY SESSION. THIS IS THE SECOND ONE. THE FOLLOW UP FROM THE ONE LAST OCTOBER ON 10TH THERE WAS A WHOLE GROUP OF STUDY AND STUDY SESSIONS IN FRONT OF VARIOUS CITY COMMISSIONS AND SO WE'RE COMING BACK IN FRONT OF THE CITY COUNCIL OR PLANNING COMMISSION AND CITY COUNCIL TO GIVE YOU AN UPDATE ON THE UPDATE OR GIVE YOU AN UPDATE ON HOW THE UPDATE IS GOING TO OF COURSE THERE DO I NEED TO TAP SOMETHING THERE AGAIN? OKAY. SO THE AGENDA FOR TONIGHT IS JUST TO START WITH A BRIEF INTRO TO THE SOUTH OF DISTRICT PLAN THAT WAS ORIGINALLY ADOPTED IN 2012 AND THEN WHAT THIS PROJECT HOW IT RELATES TO THAT THAT PLAN THAT WAS ORIGINALLY ADOPT OR ADOPT IN 2012 A GENERAL VIEW OF FEEDBACK FROM THE FIRST ROUND OF STUDY SESSIONS BACK IN OCTOBER AND THEN WE ALSO DID ANOTHER STATE IN FRONT OF PARKS COMMISSION IN DECEMBER. AN OVERVIEW OF THE PROPOSED OUTLINE FOR THE UPDATE WE'LL GET INTO NEXT STEPS FOR THIS PROCESS AND THEN STAFF HAS PREPARED SOME QUESTIONS FOR YOU ALL TO CONSIDER AND THEN YOU KNOW WE'LL LEAVE IT OPEN FOR DISCUSSION IF ONCE WE WENT THROUGH THOSE QUESTIONS SO BRIEF INTRO INTO THIS PROCESS AND TO THE ORIGINAL PLAN WAS ADOPTED IN 2012 SO THIS IS PART OF THE 2024 2025 PLANNING COMMISSION WORKPLAN THIS IS LOOKING AT A 13 YEAR OLD DOCUMENT WHOSE VISION WAS TO TRANSFORM A SUBURBAN AREA INTO AN URBAN AREA AND CREATE A SUBURBAN SUSTAINABLE DISTRICT. THERE ARE LOTS OF THINGS TO THE DIVISION BUT THOSE ARE SOME KEY POINTS OR SOME POINTS OF EMPHASIS FOR YOU ALL TO CONSIDER THE SCOPE OF WORK THIS UPDATE IS TO WORK ON PRIORITY UPDATES MEANING WE CAN'T DO A FULL REWRITE AND SO WE HAVE TO BE STRATEGIC IN WHAT WE CHOOSE TO UPDATE AND SO GOING FOR THOSE THOSE REVISIONS THAT HAVE THE GREATEST IMPACT AND CARRY WITH IT SOME POLICY IMPLICATIONS AND ON TOP OF THAT WE WILL BE IN EVALUATING THE IMPLEMENTATION PLAN THAT WAS ADOPTED ALONG WITH THAT ORIGINAL PLAN GOING TO UPDATE IT BECAUSE A LOT OF THOSE PROJECTS ARE EITHER OBSOLETE OR THEY'VE BEEN COMPLETED AND THEN PROPOSING NEW PROJECTS BASED ON CITY PRIORITIES WELL GOOD ALL RIGHT. SO IN 2024, SPECIFICALLY OCTOBER , WE ENGAGE THE VARIOUS CITY COMMISSIONS CREATIVE PLACEMAKING PORT AUTHORITY AND THEN WE WORKED WITH PARKS IN DECEMBER AND WE RECEIVED A LOT OF GOOD FEEDBACK. WE HAD DONE A LOT OF RESEARCH PRIOR TO THAT AND THE FEEDBACK WE RECEIVED JUST AUGMENTED THAT RESEARCH EVEN MORE SOME KEY THEMES THAT STOOD TO STAFF AS WE WERE LOOKING AT THOSE STUDY SESSIONS THE FEEDBACK WE GOT WERE PARKS AND OPEN SPACE ARE ARE A PRIORITY FOR THE SOUTH LOOP DISTRICT AND SO WE ARE GOING TO PRIORITIZE THAT IN THE UPDATE THAT WE HAD COMMISSIONS AND CITY COUNCIL WERE QUICK TO RECOGNIZE THAT THE THERE HASN'T BEEN A COMMENSURATE AMOUNT OF PARK OPEN SPACE DEVELOPMENT WITH THE ADDED POPULATION AND THE EMPLOYMENT GROWTH AND THERE WAS ALSO A RECOGNITION THAT THE CONNECTIONS HAVE NOT GONE TOO MUCH FURTHER WHAT WAS ORIGINALLY PUT IN PLACE OR ADOPTED IN 2012. SO THERE'S STILL SOME TRAILHEADS THAT STILL NEED TO BE CONSTRUCTED. SO THAT'S A THAT'S AN THAT THE UPDATE WILL BE ADDRESSING. ANOTHER THING THAT STOOD OUT WAS WALKABILITY AS A AS A GOAL FOR THE SOUTH LOOP. AGAIN THIS IS ABOUT TRANSFORMING AN AREA FROM SUBURBAN TO URBAN AND SO WALKABILITY JUST BEING A CHARACTERISTIC OF THAT OF THAT URBAN TRANSFORMATION IT'S IMPORTANT TO MAINTAIN THAT IN THAT THE DEVELOPMENT AND INFRASTRUCTURE OUGHT TO SUPPORT THAT GOAL FOR WALKABILITY. WE HEARD A LOT ABOUT THERE NOT BEING ENOUGH DESTINATIONS OUTSIDE OF THE MALL OF AMERICA IN THE SOUTH LOOP AND SO AGAIN ,THIS KIND OF GOES HAND IN HAND THE WALKABILITY BECAUSE WHATEVER DESTINATIONS THERE ARE THEY OFTEN MEET THE THE PEDESTRIAN AT HIGH LEVEL GROUND FLOOR AGAIN MAKING IT MORE OF AN ATTRACTIVE ATMOSPHERE FOR PEOPLE TO OR FOR THE RESIDENTS THAT WERE CURRENTLY THERE. THERE WAS ALSO AN EMPHASIS ON DISTRICT BEING STILL SOMETHING THAT OUGHT TO BE CONSIDERED FOR THE SOUTH DISTRICT. THERE'S THERE'S LOT OF TIME THAT HAS PASSED ABOUT 13 YEARS AT THE TIME OF THE ORIGINAL THERE WAS A STUDY THAT WAS DONE THERE THAT ASSESSED THAT DISTRICT ENERGY WASN'T FEASIBLE AT THAT TIME BUT WITH YOU KNOW, ADVANCE OF TECHNOLOGY JUST EASIER TO GET THINGS TO MARKET. WE'RE MAYBE DISTRICT ENERGY OUGHT TO BE REEVALUATED FOR THE SOUTH OF DISTRICT AND STRENGTHENING CONNECTIONS BETWEEN THE MALL OF AMERICA AND BLOOMINGTON CENTRAL STATION WAS ALSO A KEY POINT OF EMPHASIS THERE'S A LOT OF THERE'S A LOT OF OPPORTUNITY BETWEEN THOSE TWO END POINTS IN THE DISTRICT AND SO HOW THOSE FILL IN ARE TO STRENGTHEN THE DISTRICT SO WHATEVER GOES THERE, WHATEVER DEVELOPS THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF DEVELOPMENT BUT THERE'S STILL MORE OPPORTUNITIES. SO LOOKING THOSE OPPORTUNITIES TO REALLY FORWARD OR STRENGTHEN THAT CONNECTION AND WITH THAT WITH THAT FEEDBACK THAT CAME ABOUT THROUGH AGAIN SIX DIFFERENT MEETINGS AND EVEN REACHING OUT TO STAKEHOLDERS WITHIN THE SOUTH OF DISTRICT STAFF HAS PREPARE THE FOLLOWING OUTLINE IT STARTS OUT WITH CREATIVE PLACEMAKING UPDATES ACKNOWLEDGING THE FORMATION OF CREATIVE PLACEMAKING IN YOU KNOW IN THE IN THE WAKE OF THE OF THE ORIGINAL SOUTH OF DISTRICT PLAN SO THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF A LOT OF WORK THAT'S TAKING PLACE WITHIN THAT DIVISION. I MEAN NOT ONLY ADDING STAFF BUT JUST THE WORK BEEN DONE WITHIN THE SOUTH DISTRICT. I MEAN NOW THEY'RE CITYWIDE BUT THEY WERE PRIMARILY FOCUSED WITHIN THE SOUTH DISTRICT SO IT'S GOOD TO TAKE STOCK OF THAT. WHAT PROJECTS HAVE THEY DONE? WHAT PROJECTS ARE THEY PROPOSING? DO THEY HAVE A STRATEGIC PLAN COMING OUT SOON? SO IT WILL ACKNOWLEDGE PLAN ALL THAT WORK BEING DONE LOOKING AT BUILDING STANDARDS THE ORIGINAL PLAN RECOMMENDED A SUSTAINABLE BUILDING POLICY FOR ANY DEVELOPMENTS THE DISTRICT AND AS YOU MAY BE AWARE THERE'S NO STATE STATUTE THAT PROHIBITS OR YOU KNOW, ULTIMATELY PROHIBITS REQUIREMENTS THAT EXCEED THOSE OF BUILDING CODE . SO THIS WILL BE REVISED INTO A SUSTAINABLE BUILDING POLICY FOR THOSE PROJECTS THAT RECEIVE PUBLIC FUNDING FOR THEIR CONSTRUCTION ENERGY UPDATES IS A IS ANOTHER TOPIC BE EXPLORED AGAIN RELATED TO THE DISTRICT ENERGY TOPIC THAT I MENTIONED THE PREVIOUS SLIDE MEASURING SUSTAINABILITY THERE WAS A THERE WAS A WAY TO MEASURE SUSTAINABILITY THAT WAS USED BACK IN 2012 WE DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO THAT SOFTWARE ANYMORE SO WE WANT TO BE ABLE YOU KNOW WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT'S NOT IMPAIRING CONSIDERATION OF DEVELOPMENT IN THE FUTURE FOR THE SOUTH LOOP SO WE'LL PROBABLY BE THERE WE'RE GOING TO BE RECOMMENDING THAT THAT BE REMOVED ECOLOGICAL LAND STEWARDSHIP THIS KIND OF THIS RECOGNIZES THE NATURAL RESOURCES ARE IN THE SOUTH OF DISTRICT AND THAT THEIR PROTECTION OUGHT BE OF OF TOP OF MIND AS THE THE DISTRICT CONTINUES TO DEVELOP. SO WE WILL BE RECOMMENDING UPDATES WILL BE YOU KNOW THE UPDATE WILL INCLUDE RECOMMENDATIONS FOR ACTIONS THAT WILL STRENGTHEN THOSE NATURAL RESOURCE PROTECTIONS UPDATED CLARIFY DEVELOPMENT GOALS GUIDANCE BY AREA THIS IS IN REFERENCE TO THE JUST THE TIME THAT IS THAT HAS OCCURRED OR THE GAP BETWEEN NOW AND WHEN IT WAS ORIGINALLY DEVELOPED. THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF SHIFTS IN REAL ESTATE AND DEVELOPMENT AND DIFFERENT MARKETS AND WE WANT TO TAKE STOCK OF THAT, REEVALUATE OUR OUR LAND USE GUIDANCE AND ZONING TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE YOU KNOW, WE'RE WE'RE WE'RE CURRENT IN HOW WE'RE DIRECTING DEVELOPMENT WITHIN THE DISTRICT AND UPDATED PARKS OPEN SPACE FRAMEWORK IS JUST LOOKING AT THE WELL I MEAN IT'S PRETTY MUCH IN THE TITLE PARKS AND OPEN SPACE WITHIN THE IT'S INVOLVES AN UPDATE TO THE FRAMEWORK MAP THAT WAS PREPARED BACK IN 2012 THERE ARE SOME KEY DIFFERENCES BUT THIS IS JUST A MORE SLIMMED DOWN VERSION OR PRETTY MUCH A SLIMMED DOWN VERSION OF WHAT THE FRAMEWORK MAP SHOWED BACK IN 2012. THIS ONE HAS A HAS A FEW MINOR DIFFERENCES. IT HIGHLIGHTS THE MID-CITY BIKEWAY THAT'S PROPOSED TO BE LOCATED ALONG 86TH. IT RECOGNIZES THAT THERE ARE SOME DEVELOPMENT OPPORTUNITIES WITHIN THE SOUTH OF DISTRICT AND FOR WHICH THERE SHOULD THERE YOU KNOW THEY WILL INCLUDE PUBLIC OR PARK RECREATION SPACE SO WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE TO INCLUDE THAT ON THIS FRAMEWORK AND THEN AN UPDATE TO THE TRAILHEADS THAT ARE WITHIN THE DISTRICT. THERE ARE THREE THAT ARE STILL UNDER CONSTRUCTION AND THERE ARE THREE THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN COMPLETED AND. MOVING ON TO TRANSPORTATION UPDATES A REMINDER THAT ARE PUBLIC WORKS AS IN ATTENDANCE AND THEY CAN ANSWER SOME QUESTIONS IF YOU HAVE ANY SPECIFIC CONCERNS ABOUT THE TRANSPORTATION UPDATES BEING SHOWN OR DISCUSSED PROPOSED TO BE DISCUSSED IN THE UPDATE SO ANOTHER MAP WAS CREATED SHOWING MULTI-MODAL PROJECTS PROPOSED MULTI-MODAL PROJECTS A VARIETY OF WHICH MAY OCCUR OVER OR PROPOSED TO BE OR TO BE IMPLEMENTED OVER THE NEXT SEVEN OR SEVEN OR SEVERAL YEARS SEVEN OR SO YEARS. SORRY ABOUT THAT. ALTHOUGH NOW THAT'S IN FLUX TOO. THAT'S THE PROPOSED PEDESTRIAN CROSSINGS AND TRAFFIC SIGNALS AGAIN TO MAKE IT MORE SAFER FOR TO MAKE IT SAFER FOR PEDESTRIANS IN LINE OF THE WALKABILITY GOALS THAT WERE TALKED ABOUT IN PREVIOUS SLIDES. SO IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS PLEASE LET ME KNOW IN MOVING ON FROM TRANSPORTATION UPDATES STREETSCAPE PLAZAS AND OTHER PUBLIC SPACES THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE INCLUDING GUIDANCE TO TO TO FOR THOSE PUBLIC SPACES THAT ARE BEING PROPOSED. THERE'S ONE THAT HAS NOT BEEN CONSTRUCTED BUT IT'S WAS NOTED IN THE ORIGINAL PLAN BACK IN 2012 THE GATEWAY DESIGN AT 34TH AND AN AMERICAN BOULEVARD STAFF IS YOU KNOW WE HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT HOW SOME OF THE PUBLIC SPACES ARE TAKING SO FAR IN PARTICULAR THE ONE AT 24TH IN LYNDALE. SO WHATEVER OCCUR THERE WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE GUIDANCE IS IMPROVED SO THAT WE CREATE A BETTER GATEWAY FEEL AT 30/34 AND AMERICAN BOULEVARD AND THAT'S JUST ONE ONE EXAMPLE IF THERE'S OTHER PUBLIC SPACES WE TO BE ABLE TO ADDRESS THOSE AND THAT MIGHT MEAN AMENDING THE HSR DISTRICT IN THE ZONING CODE AND THEN WE'LL BE PROVIDING A WATER RESOURCES UPDATE STORMWATER MANAGEMENT IS A BIG PART OF DEVELOPMENT. IT REALLY INFLUENCES FORM OF DEVELOPMENT SO WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE GUIDANCE THAT'S WITHIN PLAN IS SOMETHING THAT THE THE CITY IS IS ADVOCATING FOR IN NEW DEVELOPMENT THERE'S WAS SOME GUIDANCE IN THE OLD PLAN THAT LEFT SOME DEVELOPERS AND STAFF CONFUSED AS TO HOW IT SHOULD BE APPLIED AND WE JUST WANT TO CLEAR UP THAT CONFUSION IN THIS UPDATE. WE HAVE A IN TERMS ENGAGEMENT WE DO HAVE AN ACTIVE LET'S TALK PAGE IT'S THE EXTERNAL FACING INFORMATION HUB AND IT ALLOWS PEOPLE TO SUBMIT QUESTIONS AND FOR STAFF TO THEN REPLY TO THOSE QUESTIONS AND IT ALSO ACTS AS A REPOSITORY FOR PROJECT MATERIAL AND WE'VE BEEN REACHING TO KEY STAKEHOLDERS AND ITS KEY STAKEHOLDERS IN THE SOUTH LOOP AND WE'RE KEEPING THEM UP TO DATE ON THE PROGRESS OF THIS UPDATE. SO NEXT STEPS WILL BE HOLDING A SIMILAR AS WE ARE RIGHT NOW WITH CITY COUNCIL THAT ARE AT A MEETING IN MARCH AND THEN GETTING YOUR FEEDBACK CITY COUNCILS WILL BE IN AND DRAFTING OF DRAFTING THE UPDATE TO BE CONSIDERED AT PUBLIC HEARINGS IN APRIL MAY. SO SOME QUESTIONS FOR YOU ALL TO CONSIDER IS THIS RELATES TO THE THE LAND USE GUIDANCE SECTION THAT'S GOING TO BE INCLUDED IN THE UPDATE SO THAT UPDATED LAND USE GUIDANCE SHOULD THE CITY PROACTIVELY RE GUIDE REZONE OFFICE PROPERTIES PLANNED FOR OFFICE USES TO BE MORE FLEXIBLE REGARDING LAND USE TERMS IT COULD HAVE BEEN WORDED BETTER BUT ESPECIALLY IN AREAS WHERE RESIDENTIAL USES ARE ALLOWED SO THIS IS REFERRING TO THE OFFICE. IT'S NO SECRET THAT OFFICE HAS TAKEN A HIT POST-PANDEMIC AND THERE IS A LOT OF AREAS WITHIN THE SOUTH OF DISTRICT THAT ARE GUIDED OFFICE AND ZONED FOR THOSE USES. SO IN LIGHT OF THAT AND TO GIVE PROPERTY OWNERS SOME SOME FLEXIBILITY ON HOW TO AND HOW TO USE THEIR PROPERTY IN CASE THEY'RE DEALING WITH OFFICE VACANCIES, COULD THEY REPURPOSE IT TO SOMETHING ELSE OR CONVERT THEIR THEIR PROPERTY TO A DIFFERENT USE AND SHOULD STAFF ACTIVELY OR SHOULD THE CITY ACTIVELY OR PROACTIVELY REZONING REGAIN THOSE PROPERTIES OR SHOULD WE JUST HANDLE THAT ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS? WE HAVE STAFF'S RESPONSE AND RECOMMENDATION AT THE BOTTOM OF THE SLIDE IF WANT TO REFER TO THAT. BUT OTHERWISE THAT'S A QUESTION I PUT TO YOU ALL. THANK YOU COMMISSIONER COOKTOWN THANK YOU MANAGER MR. RIMMER ALSO DO YOU HAVE A ZONING MAP WE COULD SEE OF WHERE THESE OFFICE PROPERTIES ARE. YEAH I ME SORRY. UH OH YES CHAIR COMMISSIONER COOKED IN THE THE GEOMETRY THAT IS SHOWN HERE THAT IS ZONGZI SEE FOR IS WHAT'S BEING REFERRED TO IN THIS QUESTION SO THAT IS UH IS THAT HAVE A COMMERCIAL? SOY YOU'LL HAVE TO HELP ME WITH THAT BUT NONETHELESS SO YOU WANT TO PAY ATTENTION TO THOSE PARCELS THAT ARE SO ON SEE FOR INTER IF I MAY ADD TO THAT. THANK YOU TOM THE GUIDE PLAN ALSO IS MAYBE A GOOD INDICATOR THERE TO SOME OF THE PARCELS ARE ZONED OR I'M SORRY GUIDED OFFICE AS YOU CAN SEE THEY'RE IN KIND OF THAT LIGHT PURPLE COLOR SO YOU CAN SEE THE PROPERTIES ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE ALL OF AMERICA. YOU CAN SEE THE PROPERTIES ALONG CIRCLE ALONG HE STILL TRACK UP HE ROAD THERE'S THE METRO OFFICE PARK PARCELS AND THEN THE HOTEL SITE THE MARRIOTT NORTHWEST OF IKEA. SO THESE ARE PARCELS THAT ARE CURRENTLY GATED OFFICE AND ARE I BELIEVE FOR THE MAJORITY OF THEM LOCATED OUTSIDE THE AIRPORT SAFETY ZONE AND SO RESIDENTIAL USES ARE ALLOWED THOSE SITES THEY ARE SUBJECT TO HEIGHT LIMITATIONS. TECHNOLOGY HAS IMPROVED QUITE A BIT IN TERMS OF THE ACOUSTICS ISSUES IN SOME OF THE BUILDINGS. SO I THINK IT'S JUST A QUESTION THAT STAFF HAS BEEN WRESTLING WITH INTERNALLY IS GIVEN THE OFFICE MARKET DYNAMICS SHOULD SOME OF THESE SITES SERVE SOME OF THESE PROPERTY OWNERS BE APPROACHED ABOUT THE POTENTIAL OF REIGNITING AND REZONING TO REALLY GET AT THAT URBAN REDEVELOPMENT PATTERN THE DISTRICT PLAN IS SHOOTING FOR THOUGHTS FROM THE COMMISSION I KNOW COMMISSIONER IS YOU'RE ALSO IT OR KNOW YOU WANT TO JUST CHIME IN . COMMISSIONER CURRY THANKS CHAIR JUST A QUICK QUESTION ALSO CAN YOU GO BACK TO THE OTHER ZONING SLIDE? YEAH. WHAT IS ELEX WHAT DOES THAT ENTAIL? UH, CHAIR COMMISSIONER THAT'S THE LINDAUER MIXED USE DISTRICT AND THAT IS TAKING INTO ACCOUNT THAT IT'S WITHIN THE AIRPORT SAFETY ZONE. SO THE USES ARE OR ARE SPECIALIZED TO THAT CONDITION SO THERE'S NO RESIDENTIAL ALLOWED WITHIN THOSE WITHIN THAT PARTICULAR IN THE ZONING DISTRICT. OKAY. SO THE THE MAIN FOCUS IS THE FOR DISTRICT I BELIEVE SAYING OR CORRECT FOR AND OKAY SO CHAIR COMMISSIONER THE THAT'S THE SAFE THE AREA THAT'S ON SEA FOR NORTH THE AMERICAN EAST OF 24TH PART OF THAT IS WITHIN THAT SAFETY ZONE SO IT CAN'T BE ALL. SO ANY SORT OF REZONING WOULD HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THAT IF WHEN THEY WOULDN'T BE ALLOWED TO DEVELOP RESIDENTIAL IN THAT AREA. COMMISSIONER COOKSON YEAH THANKS MADAM CHAIR. SO KIND OF JUST WORK AROUND THE CLOCK HERE A LITTLE BIT STARTING TOP LEFT THAT'S THE HOTEL SITE WHERE DOUBLETREE IS REBRANDING IT RIGHT NOW FOR ME I THINK THAT'S A GOOD HOTEL. I DON'T KNOW IF I'D BE INCLINED TO DO THAT ANYTHING AS I GO TO THE RIGHT THAT THE RUNWAY PROTECTION ZE SO YOU CAN'T DEVELOP ANYTHING THERE THE SORT OF RIGHT HALF OF THAT TOP PURPLE BLOB THERE. METRO OFFICE PARK I MEAN THAT'S OF THAT COULD BE REDEVELOPED I MIGHT BE INTERESTED IN RESIDENTIAL THERE ALTHOUGH I THINK THAT'S GOOD COMMERCIAL AND HOTEL SPACES THAT ARE CLOSE TO THE AIRPORT AS WE GO DOWN NOW TO THE BOTTOM RIGHT A LOT OF THAT IS IN THE RUNWAY PROTECTION ZONE WHICH IS WHY ALL THOSE HOUSES WERE DEMOED AND THEN SORT OF THE RIGHT HALF OF THAT PURPLE BLOB IS ALREADY DEVELOPED. SO I DON'T THINK THERE'S REALLY ANY OPPORTUNITY WITH THAT PURPLE BLOB THERE. AND SO THEN YOUR YOUR LAST BIT IS JUST SOUTH OF MALL OF AMERICA THERE WHERE I GUESS THERE'S LIKE THOSE RESTAURANTS AND STUFF. I THINK THAT'S EXCELLENT HOTEL PROPERTIES. I DON'T KNOW I'D WANT TO USE THAT UP FOR RESIDENTIAL SO I GUESS IT'S A BIT OF A MIXED BAG HERE BUT FOR ME THE ONLY PLACE I THINK I WOULD REALLY BE INTERESTED IN HAVING THE POTENTIAL FOR RESIDENTIAL WOULD BE WHERE METRO OFFICE PARK IS. THE OTHER THOUGHTS YOU'VE BOTH YOUR HAND AT THE SAME TIME. COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM THANK YOU CHAIR YEAH I WAS GOING TO ASK ABOUT I'D REALIZED THAT YOU ACTUALLY JUST HAD IT UP LONGMEADOW CIRCLE THAT THERE WERE HOUSES THAT WERE DEMOED FOR THE SAFETY ZONE I GUESS IS THERE ANY ANYTHING THAT CAN BE BUILT THERE SIMILAR TO THE LAND MIXED USE IT I GUESS WOULD THERE BE ANY MARKET DEMAND FOR UTILIZING THAT KIND OF PARCEL MAYBE CLEANER ANYWHERE ELSE AND ANY THOUGHTS ON THAT? UH UH CHAIR COMMISSIONER I MIGHT HAVE TO DEFER I NOT TOO FAMILIAR WITH THE HISTORY OTHER THAN YOU WHAT'S BEEN STATED THAT THOSE HOMES WERE DEMOLISHED TO MAKE WAY FOR THE AIRPORT SAFETY ZONE. UM, IF THEY'RE GUIDED C-4 THERE'S OTHER NONRESIDENTIAL USES THAT I SUPPOSE COULD GO THERE BUT IN TERMS OF LONG, LONG RANGE PLANS FOR THAT AND THE DISCUSSIONS THAT HAVE TAKEN PLACE REGARDING THAT PROPERTY I'LL HAVE TO DEFER TO PLAIN MANAGER JOHNSON. YEAH. CHAIR THANK YOU AND THANKS TOM. SO THE LONGMEADOW CIRCLE SITE AGAIN? YEAH, IT WAS A SERIES OF SINGLE FAMILY HOMES. IT WAS BOUGHT OUT BY MACK THEN DEMOED AS PART OF SOME OF THE AIR YOU KNOW AIR NOISE MITIGATION EFFORTS AND PROJECTS THAT TOOK PLACE SO THE MAJORITY OF THAT SITE ACTUALLY IS LOCATED WITHIN ZONE B SO ON THE WESTERN I WOULD SAY 60% YOU CAN'T HAVE RESIDENTIAL USES IN IT BUT ON THE EASTERN 40% ACTUALLY IT IS OUTSIDE OUTSIDE OF THAT AND SO WE HAVEN'T HAD ANY APPLICATIONS COME THAT WERE FORMAL AND WERE PUBLIC. WE HAVE HAD SOME DISCUSSIONS WITH THAT LANDOWNER IN THE PAST ABOUT SOME POTENTIAL DEVELOPMENT THERE THAT DID INCLUDE SOME RESIDENTIAL USES. KEEP IN MIND TOO THAT RESIDENTIAL CAN BE DEVELOPED IN C-4 IT'S JUST THEY HAVE TO MAINTAIN MINIMUM LEVELS OF NONRESIDENTIAL FLOOR AREA. SO I THINK PART OF THE CALCULUS HERE IS THAT IF YOU WANTED TO CREATE MORE PURE RESIDENTIAL OPPORTUNITIES WITHOUT THE NEED TO TIE IT TO RESIDENTIAL FLOOR AREA IN THIS AREA THE MIXED THE MIXED USE GUIDANCE WOULD ALLOW YOU TO DO THAT A LITTLE BIT EASIER FASHION AND THEN YOU COULD TAILOR THE ZONING TO WHATEVER WOULD FIT THE PROJECT I WOULD ALSO NOTE ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE MALL THERE'S A SERIES OF OFFICE BUILDINGS THE CITY RECEIVED SOME INTEREST IN CREATING SOME RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF KILLEBREW THERE. NOTHING HAS COME FORWARD TO FRUITION. IT'S BEEN JUST A COUPLE INQUIRIES AND ATTEMPTS THAT YOU KNOW JUST CONCEPT SITE PLANS AND JUST GENERAL PROJECT CHARACTERISTICS BUT YOU KNOW THAT CONVERSION THERE ARE SOME OLDER OFFICE THERE THAT MIGHT BE A GOOD CANDIDATE FOR CONVERSION BUT THESE ARE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE'VE HEARD AS TOM THERE'S BEEN SOME ENGAGEMENT WITH KEY STAKEHOLDERS. WE DID MEET WITH THE OWNERS OF METRO OFFICE PARK AND SO THEY DIDN'T SHUT THE DOOR TO THAT OUTCOME AND I DON'T WANT TO BE HESITANT TO CHARACTERIZE THEIR BUT YOU KNOW THE OFFICE MARKET DOES HAVE CHALLENGES BUT. I THINK THEY WERE JUST INTERESTED IN HAVING AN ONGOING CONVERSATION ABOUT IT . SO ONE OF THE THINGS TO NOTE ABOUT THIS DISCUSSION TOPIC IS HOW AGGRESSIVELY THE CITY SHOULD MOVE IN TERMS OF PROACTIVE REGARDING REZONING OR IS IT MORE OF STIMULATE A CONVERSATION WITH THOSE OWNERS AND KIND OF SEE WHAT THEIR PLANS ARE? AND OF COURSE THERE'S ALWAYS THE CASE BY CASE DEVELOPMENT BY DEVELOPMENT SIDE BY SIDE TYPE OF PRIVATELY INITIATED ACTION THAT CAN OCCUR AS WELL. SO THERE'S KIND OF A MENU OF OPTIONS THERE. MR. JOHNSON IF YOU WOULDN'T MIND CLARIFYING JUST QUICKLY SO IN C FOR RESIDENTIAL IS ALLOWED BUT IT HAS TO BE IN CONJUNCTION WITH SOME LEVEL OF OTHER USE RETAIL OFFICE IS THAT CORRECT. YEAH CHAIR THAT IS CORRECT. I CAN PULL UP WHAT THE MINIMUM F AIR IS BUT IT'S ALL GOVERNED BY A MINIMUM FLOOR AREA RATIOS IN THE C FOUR DISTRICT YOU HAVE TO MAINTAIN A MINIMUM NONRESIDENTIAL FSR OF 0.2 SO EFFECTIVELY 20% OF OF THE FLOOR AREA OF THE PROJECT WHILE ACTUALLY AND IT'S TIED TO THE LAND AREA TOO BUT 20% IN EFFECT HAS TO BE NONRESIDENTIAL. WE'VE DEVELOPMENTS COME THROUGH IN THE PAST AS YOU KNOW THAT HAVE SOUGHT FLEXIBILITY TO THAT IN ORDER TO TRY AND MAKE IT WORK DEPENDING ON WHAT THAT COMMERCIAL USE IS WE'VE HAD OTHER PROJECTS KIND OF DO PD'S WITH MULTIPLE SITES TO BRING FORWARD COMMERCIAL USES AS PART OF A PROJECT. SO THERE ARE SOME CREATIVE WAYS TO DO IT. THE THING I KNOW TOO IS THAT IT ALSO DEPENDS ON WHAT THE GUIDANCE OF THE PROPERTY IN THE COMP PLAN BUT OFFICE DOES ALLOW RESIDENTIAL I BELIEVE IT'S JUST A MATTER OF MEETING SOME OF THESE ZONING REQUIREMENTS I GUESS GIVENNFORMATION I AM MORE OF GOING DOWN THE ROUTE OF REZONING AND, BEING MORE PROACTIVE. I KNOW THAT THE IDEA HERE IS TO HAVE VERTICAL MIXED USE WHICH IS A GREAT CONCEPT BUT I THINK FOR THE PARCELS IN AJAX ARE THOUGH THAT HAS BEEN SOMEWHAT SUCCESSFUL THE RETAIL THERE STILL KIND OF STRUGGLING AND I WOULD VENTURE THAT POTENTIALLY HORIZONTAL MIXED USE MIGHT BE MORE SUCCESSFUL SO NOT NECESSARILY IN THE SAME BUILDING BUT SORT OF SPREAD OUT. SO FOR ME THAT WOULD SEEM TO BE FLEXIBILITY THAT I THINK WOULD BE ENTICING IF THAT IF THE INTEREST IS OUT THERE COMMERCIAL CAPITAL EXPENDITURE WAS THE PROPOSAL TO REZONE IT TOO SO FROM C-4 TO LIKE CHAIR COMMISSIONER I DON'T KNOW IF WE THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD EXPLORE WITH THE UPDATE WE'D BE WORKING ON THAT JUST TO IDENTIFY THOSE DISTRICTS THAT ALLOW MORE FLEXIBILITY COMPARED TO WHAT'S CURRENTLY. SO I, I WILL ADMIT I APOLOGIZE I DON'T HAVE A DISTRICT OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD PERHAPS NICK JOHNSON CAN CAN ILLUMINATE THAT ANSWER. YEAH. THANK YOU TIME CHAIR IF I MAY UP AND I TURN DOWN HERE. OKAY THANK YOU AND YEAH WHAT I CAN JUST ADD TO THAT IS I THINK THAT'S CERTAINLY SOMETHING WE CAN BRING FORWARD IN THE UPDATE IF THIS IS SOMETHING OF INTEREST. I THINK WHAT WE WANTED TO DO FIRST WAS JUST TEST BOTH THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND CITIES COUNCILS TO TAKE THIS STEP AND AGAIN THERE'S BOTH THERE'S MORE AN AGGRESSIVE POSTURE, THERE'S MORE OF A HEY LET'S CHECK IN WITH ALL OF PROPERTY OWNERS AND SEE WHAT THEIR PLANS ARE. YOU WOULDN'T WANT TO REZONE YOU WOULDN'T WANT TO REZONE TO A ZONING DISTRICT THAT WOULD NOT FIT THE FUTURE VISION OF THE PROPERTY IN ADDITION TO BEING IN LINE THE GUIDANCE OF THE DISTRICT PLAN. SO HSR CERTAINLY COULD BE A CANDIDATE DEPENDING ON THEIR PLANS. WE'VE HAD SOME INTEREST IN INNOVATION AND TECHNOLOGY DEPENDING ON WHO THE END USER IS TO THAT WOULD NOT BE A RESIDENTIAL PROJECT OF COURSE BUT I THINK PART OF THAT DISCUSSION AND I APPRECIATE THE OWNERS METRO ENGAGING WITH US IN THAT WAY AND THAT'S PART OF THAT IS JUST CHECKING IN WITH FOLKS AND PROVIDING THE COUNSEL ON THE PLANNING COMMISSION SOME OPTIONS TO CONSIDER AND THINK ABOUT. COMMISSIONER COOK TWO THINGS MANAGER SO AGAIN I KNOW YOU JUST SAID IT'S EASY DOES ALLOW RESIDENTIAL IF THERE'S 20% FLOOR AREA RACIAL FLOOR AREA RATIO THAT IS COMMERCIAL IS THAT WHAT IT WAS OKAY. THAT'S CORRECT COMMISSIONER MAKE IN GENERAL I'D BE I'M DEFINITELY SUPPORTIVE BEING MORE PROACTIVE I THINK ALL OF THOSE I MEAN THE METRO OFFICE WELL I MEAN I THINK ALL OF THOSE AREAS COULD BE I DON'T SEE WHY YOU COULDN'T HAVE RESIDENTIAL AT ANY OF THEM SO AND I YOU KNOW I THINK WE ALL WANT MORE WE ALL WANT TO KIND OF ACTIVATE SPACE . I THINK THAT WAS KIND OF A REACTIVATE ACTIVATE THE AREA. I THINK THAT WAS KIND OF A TOPIC OF DISCUSSION LAST TIME AND I MEAN I THINK THE BEST WAY TO DO IT AS TO MAKE PEOPLE TO NOT MAKE PEOPLE BUT HAVE PEOPLE LIVE THERE SO YEAH I DON'T SEE WHY NOT BE MORE PROACTIVE ABOUT IN ALL OF THOSE AREAS. MR. GOOD TO YEAH. MANAGER SO I'M JUST TRYING TO GET TO THE BOTTOM THIS SO IS THE GOAL HERE THAT BY GETTING AWAY FROM C-4 AND GOING TO SAY AJAX ARE THERE COULD BUILD RESIDENTIAL WITHOUT THE COMMERCIAL SPACE IS THAT OUR GOAL BECAUSE C4 ALREADY ALLOWS RESIDENTIAL SO WHAT IS THE BENEFIT THEN OF REZONING? YEAH THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT YOU HAVE A LITTLE MORE FLEXIBILITY ABOUT HOW THE BUILDING IS LAID OUT THAT YOU WOULDN'T NECESSARILY BE REQUIRED TO THE 20% YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO HAVE 10% OR YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO RIGHT BECAUSE HSR DOES NOT REQUIRE RETAIL SPACE I BELIEVE. RIGHT WE JUST APPROVED A PHASE OF BC'S WITH OUR RETAIL YEAH. CHAIR COMMISSIONER KOKTAN. I AGREE WITH TOM THAT YOU KNOW IT'S INCUMBENT ON US TO DO A LITTLE BIT MORE RESEARCH TERMS OF WHAT THE WHAT THE EXACT PRECISE TRADE OFFS ARE OF DIFFERENT DISTRICTS THAT THIS COULD GO TO AND SO THAT'S DEFINITELY SOMETHING AND I'LL CONTINUE TO DO SOME RESEARCH AS WE'RE TALKING BUT THAT'S DEFINITELY SOMETHING THAT WE CAN DELIVER TO YOU IN THE MORE FORMAL UPDATE AS WE GO. BUT YEAH, I'LL I'LL CONTINUE HERE AND I'LL REPORT BACK ON ON SOME OF THAT. YEAH SO I'M SORRY THIS IS MANAGER I THINK THE WAY I'M INTERPRETING THIS QUESTION AND I'M GOING TO BE MISINTERPRETING IT BUT THE WAY I'M INTERPRETING THIS QUESTION NOW IS ARE WE OKAY WITH THESE PARCELS DEVELOPING AS RESIDENTIAL WITHOUT RETAIL BECAUSE THEY CAN ALREADY DEVELOPERS RESIDENTIAL BUT THEY HAVE TO HAVE THAT RETAIL COMPONENT AND SO THE I'M UNDERSTANDING IS IS ARE WE OKAY WITH THEM DEVELOPING IS JUST RESIDENTIAL WITHOUT A RETAIL SPACE AND IF I'VE INTERPRETED THAT CORRECTLY THAT'S NOT SOMETHING I WOULD BE OKAY WITH. THAT'S GOOD FEEDBACK. COMMISSIONER CORY THANKS CHAIR KIND OF ON THAT SAME VEIN I THINK YOU KNOW IT WOULD BE GOOD TO HAVE OBVIOUSLY I THINK AGAIN GOING BACK TO THE LAST CONVERSATION I THINK REALLY WANTED MORE RETAIL IN THE ARE DISTRICT THAT HASN'T HAPPENED IF YOU'RE GOING TO IT SEEMS TO ME LIKE RETAIL WOULD BE SOMETHING MAYBE MORE CENTRALIZED RATHER THAN AROUND THE PERIPHERY OF THE AREA TO MAKE IT MORE ACCESSIBLE TO EVERYBODY. SO I GUESS IN THAT INSTANCE MEAN I DO WANT TO SEE RETAIL TOO BUT IN THAT YOU KNOW IN THESE PERIPHERAL AREAS I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I THINK IS I THINK IF WE REQUIRED IT IT MIGHT BE AN IMPEDIMENT TO ACTUALLY GETTING YOU KNOW, TO PROMOTING DEVELOPMENT IN THOSE IN THOSE DISTRICTS. BUT CHAIR I'M SORRY WE DO BELIEVE THERE'S A SLIGHT THERE WE GO. OKAY. SO THIS I SHOULD HAVE BROUGHT THE SLIDE UP INTO THIS CONVERSATION BECAUSE I DO TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE MAJOR ZONING DISTRICTS THAT WERE SOUTH OF SPECIFIC. SO MAYBE THIS WILL ILLUMINATE THE CONVERSATION, ADD MORE DEPTH TO IT. SORRY ABOUT THAT COMMISSIONER . CAPTAIN YEAH, MADAM CHAIR AND I THINK COMMISSIONER CORY BRINGS UP A GOOD POINT THAT PERHAPS A CONCENTRATION OF RETAIL IS MAKES MORE SENSE THAN HAVING IT ON THE PERIPHERY AND AS I WAS LOOKING THAT MAP AS HE WAS DESCRIBING THAT I THINK I PROBABLY DID JUMP THE GUN A LITTLE BIT IN THAT RETAIL PROBABLY WOULD STRUGGLE ON SOME OF THOSE FRINGE PARCELS THERE AND SO NOT TO DERAIL THE CONVERSATION MUCH BUT MAYBE IT'S THAT WE NEED TO TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT IS ZONED I BELIEVE AJAX ARE IF WE GO BACK TO THE ZONING MAP I, I THINK WHERE I'M REALLY INTERESTED IN RETAIL IS KIND OF IN THE CORE OF BLOOMINGTON CENTRAL STATION WHERE THE THE LRT STATION AND WE'VE HAD A DEVELOPMENT OR TWO THERE COME FORWARD WITH OUT RETAIL WHICH I DIDN'T LIKE AND SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PROACTIVELY REZONING. I THINK I WOULD BE MORE INTRIGUED TO SEE A REZONING OF SOME OF THOSE HSR TO PERHAPS SEE FOR A HIGH LEVEL WITH A RETAIL COMPONENT TO FORCE THAT UPON THE DEVELOPMENT INSTEAD OF HAVING DEVELOPMENT WITHOUT IT. BUT I DON'T MEAN TO DESIGN FROM THE DAY AS HERE. SHERRIFF COMMISSIONER COOKTOWN IF I CAN ADD THOUGHT TO THAT TOO IS THAT WERE THE DISCUSSION IS KIND OF LOOKING IT FROM ONE DIRECTION AND LEADING TO THE RESIDENTIAL YOU CAN ACTUALLY LOOK AT IT FROM THE RESIDENTIAL AND GO THE OTHER WAY TOO. I THINK ONE OF THE VALUES THAT HSR MAY PRESENT IS THAT IT HAS THE RESIDENTIAL REQUIREMENT SO IF THE CITY PROACTIVELY WANTED TO TAKE THAT STEP IF WE IDENTIFIED A SITE THAT WE FELT THE RESIDENTIAL REALLY MUST BE A COMPONENT OF THIS EITHER BECAUSE OF ITS PROXIMITY TO THE 34TH AN AMERICAN AREA OR OTHER VALUE THAT ADDING TO THE SOUTH LOOP DISTRICT IN GENERAL JUST IN TERMS OF ACTIVATING AS COMMISSIONER CURRIE SAID YOU KNOW REGARDING AND REZONING TO HSR WOULD WOULD WOULD REQUIRE THE DEVELOPER TO BRING SOME RESIDENTIAL TO THE TABLE AS PART OF A FUTURE PROJECT OR REDEVELOPMENT SO FLEXIBILITY IS ONE WAY TO LOOK AT IT BUT ANOTHER WAY TO LOOK AT IT ALSO IS THAT IS A TOOL FOR THE CITY TO USE TO TO DICTATE RESIDENTIAL USES SHOULD BE CREATED AS PART OF ANY FUTURE REDEVELOPMENT TO ASSURE COOKTOWN. THANKS MADAM CHAIR. SO JUST ASK THE QUESTION BECAUSE KNOW NOT ALL MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS WOULD BE IN FAVOR OF THIS BUT COULD AN OUTCOME OF THIS STUDY BE TO LOOK AT THE HSR ZONE AND MODIFY THAT ZONE TO REQUIRE REDO OF THE COMMISSIONER? YES THAT COULD CERTAINLY BE AN OUTCOME OF THIS UPDATE IS TO REEXAMINE HSR I MEAN IN THE OUTLINE WE ARE WE ALREADY TALK ABOUT REEXAMINING HSR TERMS OF ITS PUBLIC SPACE REQUIREMENTS SO THAT WOULD ALSO FALL IN LINE AS PART THAT REVIEW AS WELL AND MY MY ADD TO THAT CHAIR AND COMMISSIONER COOK DOWN WOULD BE IS THAT TAKING A STEP LIKE THAT WHICH I THINK IS VERY MUCH IN WITH THE DISTRICT PLAN GOALS ALSO WOULD PRESENT LESS FLEXIBILITY I MEAN I JUST WANT TO BE CLEAR ABOUT THAT ON THAT AND AS YOU CAN SEE AND I MEAN JUST FOR THOSE JUST A POINT OF CONTEXT THE HSR DISTRICT SO IT WAS CERTAINLY INITIALLY CREATED FOR THE BCS SO EVERYONE'S AWARE OF THAT A FEW RESIDENTIAL PROJECTS SINCE BEEN SUCCESSFULLY DEVELOPED UNDER THE HSR STANDARDS THE CHARTER IS THE MOST ONE OF THAT BUT A FEW ALONG THE RIVER BLUFF THERE ON THE EAST SIDE OF THE DISTRICT COMMISSIONER UPTON DOES THIS VENTURE DOES THAT ZONE EXIST ANYWHERE OR IS IT JUST RIGHT HERE? CHAIR COMMISSIONER KOKTAN. IT'S ONLY IN THE SOUTH OF DISTRICT. YEAH, ONLY IN LOCATION . ANY OTHER THOUGHTS BEFORE WE MOVE ON TO THE NEXT QUESTION DOES IT GIVE YOU ENOUGH CLARITY? CLARITY? I MIGHT HAVE TO LOOK BACK AT THE TAPE. OH SORRY CHAIR YEAH I MIGHT HAVE TO LOOK BACK AT THE TAPE BUT I YEAH I I'M SURE THERE'S DIRECTION IN THERE. I WILL I WILL GO WITH THAT I NEED TO BLOW ON IT IT'S GOING ON THERE AGAIN THIS IS AWESOME LIKE YOU'RE WORKING NOW OR I DON'T KNOW. OKAY BUT NOW THERE YOU GO. TWIRLED THE BATTERIES. YEAH. APOLOGIES, TECHNICAL ISSUES. OKAY, SO ON TO THE NEXT QUESTION SHOULD THE CITY ADOPT A MINIMUM STRUCTURE HEIGHT REQUIREMENTS AND ANY PORTIONS OR ALL OF THE SOUTH OF DISTRICT OR SHOULD THE CITY RELY ON MINIMUM FLOOR AREA RATIO TO GUIDE THE INTENSITY AND FORM OF DEVELOPMENT IN SOUTH LOOP AGAIN STAFF'S RESPONSE OUR RECOMMENDATION IS BELOW THAT WE DON'T FEEL THE MINIMUM HEIGHTS IS NECESSARY TO BE ADDED ON TO REQUIRED OFF AIR. SO GIVING DEVELOPERS THAT FLEXIBILITY FOR CONSTRUCTION WHILE MEETING FDR AND BROADER GOALS OF SOUTH OF DISTRICT PLAN IS IS KEY IN OUR INTERVIEW THAT'S COMMISSIONER CORY THANKS CHAIR YEAH I WITH THAT I THINK THAT MAKES SENSE I ALSO AGREE WITH THAT I THINK THOUGH THE IDEA OF ADDITIONAL THERE IS ATTRACTIVE I IN TERMS OF PENCILING OUT THOSE PROJECTS MIGHT BE MORE DIFFICULT. MCGOVERN I AGREE AS WELL WITH BOTH OF YOU COULD COMMISSIONER KIND OF YOU I ALSO AGREE OR TO DO IT EVERYBODY WHEN COMMISSIONER TEN I'M NOT SURE I AGREE THIS IS THIS WAS THE TOUGHEST ONE FOR ME BECAUSE IT'S MY OPINION THAT WHAT PARTICULARLY BLOOMINGTON CENTRAL STATION WAS SUPPOSED TO BE IS NOT WHAT IT HAS BECOME AND IN SOME WAYS I THINK THE THAT WHATEVER THE TRUCK HAS LEFT THE STATION OR WHATEVER THE IDIOM IS BUT I'LL SAY A COUPLE OF THINGS I CONSIDER REQUIRING SIX STORIES BECAUSE SIX OR A FIVE ON A PODIUM IS WHERE YOU CAN WHAT YOU CAN'T BUILD WHAT TALLER THAN FIVE STORIES ON TOP OF A PODIUM AND THE LAST BCS WE SAW COME FORWARD WAS FOUR STORIES AND TO ME THAT WAS JUST A I THINK THAT BUILDING SHOULD BE TALLER. I THINK THAT'S AN UNDERUTILIZATION AND NOT THE BEST IN HIGHEST LAND USE BY ALLOWING FOR STORIES IN THE HEART OF BLOOMINGTON CENTRAL STATION SO AT THE VERY LEAST I WISH WE COULD HAVE AT LEAST SIX STORIES OR FIVE STORIES OF WHAT ON WHATEVER HEIGHT PODIUM YOU WANT TO PUT THERE. AND THEN I THINK, I KNOW IN GENERAL I RECOGNIZE WE WOULDN'T DO THIS AND IT'S REASONABLY SENSIBLE BUT WE DO HAVE TWO MASSIVE LOTS THAT ARE ON 494 THAT HAVE A WORLD OF POTENTIAL WHERE CURRENTLY THOUSANDS OF PARKED CARS AND HAS BEEN LONGER THAN I'VE BEEN AND THERE'S STILL A LOT OF POTENTIAL THERE. WOULD WE CONSIDER THOSE TO WHAT I BELIEVE ARE CURRENTLY JUST TWO PARCELS THEY'LL BE SPLIT UP EVENTUALLY. WOULD WE CONSIDER SORT OF HEIGHT MINIMUM ON THOSE TWO PARCELS WHERE WE STILL HAVE A CHANCE TO GET SOME VERY VERTICAL DEVELOPMENT ALONG THE HIGHWAY WHICH WE HAVE A LOT OF IN BLOOMINGTON AND I YOU KNOW I'M NOT AN A DEVELOPER BUT I BELIEVE IT COULD SUPPORT IT PARTICULARLY IF WE GET A WATER PARK OR OTHER MAJOR DEVELOPMENTS AT THE MALL. WE COULD SEE SOME PRETTY SIGNIFICANT HOTEL DEVELOPMENT AND SO GOING SHORT IS IS GREAT FOR DEVELOPERS BECAUSE IT'S CHEAPER AND YOU GET YOUR MONEY BACK FASTER AND SO THERE'S OBVIOUSLY A RISK IF WE REQUIRE A TALLER BUILDING THERE WOULD BE LESS ATTRACTED TO LESS ATTRACTIVE TO DEVELOPERS BECAUSE BUILDING A TALL BUILDING TAKES LONGER TO GET YOUR MONEY BACK BUT WITH THE MARKET SUPPORTED IF WE REQUIRED IT I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT COMMISSIONER. CURRY THANKS SHERIFF. YEAH I AGREE WITH COMMISSIONER COOKED IT AND IT DEFINITELY WOULD LIKE TO SEE MORE DENSITY . WHAT I THINK WE'VE SEEN AT LEAST I'VE SEEN IN THE TIME I'VE HERE I DON'T KNOW I DON'T KNOW IF I DON'T KNOW THE BEST WAY TO GO ABOUT THAT THOUGH BECAUSE YOU WANT TO SUPPORT DEVELOPMENT BUT WITHOUT YOU KNOW BEING SO OR INFLEXIBLE THAT NOBODY CAN DO ANYTHING SO YEAH, I DON'T KNOW I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE ANSWER IS. COMMISSIONER I'LL ALSO ADD THAT GOING MORE VERTICAL GIVES THE OPPORTUNITY TO CREATE MORE GREEN SPACE. YOU LOOK AT THE MOST PHASES OF LOUISIANA CENTRAL STATION THERE'S HARDLY ANY GREEN SPACE BECAUSE IT'S RELATIVELY FLAT AND IT'S ALL BUILDING SO THERE'S LITTLE TINY POCKETS IN A POOL BUT YOU DON'T GET YOU DON'T HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY FOR GREEN SPACE BECAUSE HERE I WILL IT AS A BUILDING COMMISSIONER CURRY MAKES SURE TOTALLY OFF TOPIC NOW WHEN IS THE LAST TIME THAT WE DID A I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'D DO A MARKET STUDY TO SEE YOU KNOW WHAT WHAT VACANCY RATES ARE LIKE OR WHAT RENTAL RATES ARE LIKE AND WHAT RATES ARE NEEDED TO SUPPORT THAT KIND OF DEVELOPMENT. I SOMETHING LIKE THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL IN UNDERSTANDING WE SHOULD EVEN BE TALKING ABOUT TO SOME EXTENT BECAUSE I JUST FEAR YOU KNOW I KIND OF LOOK AT IT AND IT'S LIKE WE JUST. TO ME IT SEEMS LIKE WE'RE GOING TO END UP WITH A NEWER VERSION OF LYNDALE AVENUE IN BLOOMINGTON CENTRAL STATION, YOU KNOW, WITH FOUR OR FIVE STOREY APARTMENT BUILDINGS THAT ARE SPRAWLING MAYBE HOPEFULLY MAYBE A COUPLE OFFICE BUILDINGS OR SOMETHING AND RETAIL IF IT IF IT GETS BUILT SO IT'S JUST I THINK IT'S A LOT EASIER TO UNDERSTAND WHAT WE SHOULD BE GUIDING TOWARDS IF. WE KNOW WHAT THE MARKET YOU KNOW WHAT THE MARKET WOULD ACTUALLY COMMISSIONER KOKTAN AND THEN I THOUGHT SAW A SLIDE THAT YOU HAD IN YOUR EXTRA SLIDES ABOUT AT LEAST VACANCY OF OFFICE CHAIR COMMISSIONERS YES. SO IF I CAN FIND A WHOLE CAUTION THAT THIS WAS ESTIMATES I RECEIVED BACK I THINK IN SEPTEMBER I MEAN THAT HASN'T BEEN TOO TERRIBLY LONG BUT THE ESTATE MARKET IS HIGHLY DYNAMIC SO VACANCIES ARE YOU KNOW, HOPEFULLY THIS ISN'T TOO OUTDATED YOU KNOW ACCURATE ACCURATELY CAPTURES THE VACANCIES AND I DID IN THE OUTLINE SOME CAUTION WITH THE VACANCY ESTIMATES SOMETIMES IT'S HARD TO GET THAT FROM PROPERTY OWNERS THEY'RE VERY COVETOUS OF THAT INFORMATION AND ALMOST PROPRIETARY IN THEIR EYES. SO IT'S REALLY IT'S IT'S IT'S BETTER TO THINK OF THESE AS ESTIMATES THAN YOU KNOW, FOR S OR FOR DECLARATIONS OF WHAT THE VACANCY RATE ACTUALLY IS. SO I BELIEVE I LISTED IT AS 2020 5% I THINK I MENTIONED AS A VACANCY AND YEAH AND THAT WAS SPECIFIC TO THIS OUT THERE OVERALL WE HAVE A CITYWIDE VACANCY RATE IN OFFICE BUILDINGS AT 17% SO IT'S HIGHER IN THE THERE. BUT AGAIN WORD OF CAUTION THOSE NUMBERS AREN'T THE MOST RELIABLE. AND JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, YOU SAID 25% NOT 5% LIKE ON THE SCREEN. YES. OH YEAH. NO, IT'S ACTUALLY I DON'T KNOW OH MY LORD. DID I I MADE A MISTAKE MISSTATED THAT ACTUALLY IN THE STAFF AND THE STAFF AT ONE TIME ARE YOU NEVER MIND. YEAH ANYWAYS I WILL RECHECK THOSE NUMBERS SO MAYBE I APOLOGIZE DON'T YOU RELY WHAT I HAVE ON THE SCREEN SO I WILL CHECK THOSE NUMBERS. I DO HAVE THEM AVAILABLE BUT I'M UNFORTUNATELY I'M JUST NOT CONFIDENT IN THEM RIGHT NOW. CHERYL RICK WHEN I WAS GOING TO ADD AS JUST A COMMISSIONER CURRIE'S QUESTION ABOUT HOW OFTEN DOES THE CITY DO A MARKET STUDY? SO ONE OF THE BENEFITS OF HAVING INTERNAL ASSESSING SERVICES IS CERTAINLY OUR CITY ASSESSORS TRY AND STAY AS A TUNE AS THEY POSSIBLY CAN TO THE MARKET DYNAMICS AND ALL THE DIFFERENT LAND USES OR SECTORS ACROSS THE CITY AND THAT'S WHERE THEY'VE BEEN SUPPORTIVE OF THE PLANNING TEAM AND PROVIDING SOME OF THESE NUMBERS IS JUST THEIR BEST ESTIMATE RIGHT NOW IN TERMS OF WHEN THE CITY HAS DONE TAKEN THE STEP OF DOING FORMAL MARKET STUDIES OBVIOUSLY THERE'S A USUALLY TYPICALLY A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT EXPENSE TO ORDERING THAT FROM A PRIVATE SERVICE. THE LAST ONE THAT I'M AWARE OF IS MORE RELATED TO JUST GENERAL HOUSING MARKET CONDITIONS IN BLOOMINGTON AND SURROUNDING COMMUNITIES THAT WAS RELATED TO SUPPORTING OPPORTUNITY HOUSING ORDINANCE . IT IN EFFECT WAS A CENTRAL LEGAL STEP TO ESTABLISHING WHAT THE AFFORDABILITY REQUIREMENTS WERE BE SETTING THE LEVEL OF THE MINIMUM EXPECTATION AND SO THINK THAT WAS DONE BY MAXFIELD THAT'S THE LAST ONE THAT I'M AWARE OF THAT THE CITY AS A FORMAL MARKET STUDY OTHER THAN THAT TYPICALLY COMMUNITY STAFF IS RALLYING WITH OUR ASSESSING DIVISION STAFF AND TRYING TO GET AS UP TO DATE INFORMATION AS THEY CAN FROM FROM THAT SOURCE COMMISSIONER CURRY AND THEN I PROMISE COMMISSIONER GOODELL THANKS CHAIR. YEAH, JUST TO CLOSE THAT OFF SO YEAH, I THINK I MEAN GENERAL I THINK THERE'S WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE DYNAMIC OF AIRPLANES FLYING OVERHEAD ALL DAY SO YOU KNOW, I JUST DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S GOING TO BE THE MARKETS SUPPORT TO HAVE THAT KIND OF AN YOU KNOW, THAT KIND OF DEVELOPMENT OR PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE WILLING TO PAY THE RENTAL. I THINK MORE SPECIFICALLY FOR APARTMENTS, YOU KNOW, FOR HIRE FOR TALLER APARTMENTS THAN OFFICE IT YEAH OFFICE IS A LONG WAYS OFF FROM PROBABLY GETTING TO THE POINT WHERE YOU WANT TO BUILD A BUNCH OF OFFICE RIGHT. SO I THINK IT'S PROBABLY JUST WORTH THE CITY'S TIME TO SEE IF THEY CAN GET A COUPLE A COUPLE OF APARTMENT OR OR APARTMENT AND OFFICE EXPERTS INTO TALK WITH THEM AND SEE WHAT THE REALITY OF IT EVEN IS BECAUSE IT'S JUST PROBABLY NOT WORTH OUR TIME GUIDING IT THAT WAY AND TRYING TO HAVE AN IDEA JUST NOT GOING TO BE SUPPORTED BY THE MARKET COMMISSIONER WHO DONE THANKS MADAM CHAIR. IN A WORD COMMISSIONER CURRY BROUGHT UP LYNDALE AND I THINK THAT'S WHY I HAVE SUCH A HARD TIME WITH THIS IS BECAUSE YOU'RE RIGHT. I MEAN WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE AND WHAT WE'RE DOING IN LYNDALE? IT'S EXACTLY SAME THING WITH THE FANCIER ZONING NAMES AND I THINK THAT'S WHY IT'S BEEN SUCH A DISAPPOINTMENT FOR ME LIKE THE ORIGINAL VISION OF BLOOMINGTON CENTRAL STATION SALFORD WAS GOING TO BE THE THIRD DOWNTOWN IT'S CONNECTED TO LIGHT RAIL NEXT TO THE MALL ,IT'S RIGHT NEXT TO THE AIRPORT. IT WAS GOING TO BE THE THIRD DOWNTOWN AND I DON'T KNOW I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S WE BLEW IT AS A CITY OR THE MARKET JUST DIDN'T WANT IT BUT LIKE I THINK THE DREAM OF THAT IS GONE. I MEAN IT'S JUST A LOT OF SIX STOREY WOOD BUILDINGS NOW AND IT LOOKS LIKE KIND EVERY OTHER NEIGHBORHOOD AND THEN YOU YOU'RE BACKED UP AGAINST THE IDEA. IT'S REALLY HARD TO GET TO. IT'S SURROUNDED BY A RIVER ON TWO SIDES OF FREEWAY ON THE OTHER SIDE AND SO LIKE I JUST DON'T KNOW IF THE NEIGHBORHOOD IS EVER GOING TO BLOSSOM AND I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S BECAUSE WE SHOULD HAVE ZONED IT THIS WAY THE FIRST PLACE AND REQUIRED 15 STORY BUILDINGS. I MEAN YOU LOOK AT THE OLD SKETCHES OF WHAT THIS NEIGHBORHOOD WAS GOING TO BE AND IT'S ALL BUILDINGS THAT LOOK LIKE HEALTHPARTNERS REFLECTIONS AND WE DIDN'T GET THAT AND IT'S EITHER BECAUSE THE MARKET DIDN'T WANT OR THE MARKET WANTED DO A LOWER COST OPTION. I'M NOT SURE WHICH WHICH IT IS AND SO LIKE I STRUGGLE WITH AM I THE LAST LINE OF DEFENSE THAT SAYS STILL HAVE A CHANCE AND WE CAN DO THIS AND WHY DON'T WE THINK ONLY LIKE WHEN I THINK ABOUT THE PAST I GET A LITTLE UPSET WAS WITH WHY DIDN'T THOSE PEOPLE THINK MORE BOLDLY WHY DIDN'T THEY PUT THEIR FOOT AND SAY NO WE WE ARE GOING TO HOLD OUT AND WE ARE GOING TO HOLD OURSELVES TO HIGH STANDARDS AND AM I JUST THE NEXT PERSON IN LINE THAT'S NOT GOING TO HOLD US TO A HIGH STANDARD AND WE'LL GET THE DEVELOPMENT THAT HAPPENS IN BURNSVILLE AND EDEN PRAIRIE AND EVERYWHERE ELSE OR SHOULD I MAKE A DIFFICULT DECISION AND SAY NO WE'RE GOING TO MAYBE IT TAKES LONGER AND TAKES MORE WORK BUT WE'RE GOING TO HOLD OURSELVES TO VERY HIGH STANDARDS IN THIS POCKET OF BLOOMINGTON LYNDALE TOTALLY HAPPY WITH SIX STORY WOOD BUILDINGS ALL DAY LONG BUT SHOULD I BE MORE PROTECTIVE THIS NEIGHBORHOOD, THIS SPOT AND SAY NO, WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A LITTLE BIT LONGER, TAKE OUR TIME AND DO IT TO SOMETHING SPECIAL INSTEAD OF JUST LIKE WHAT EVERYTHING ELSE IS. MR. CURRY THANKS CHAIR SORRY ONE ONE THOUGHT FOR YOUR I THINK AND AGAIN I GO BACK I MENTIONED IN THE LAST MEETING RESTON VIRGINIA LIKE PLACE I VISIT FEW TIMES FOR WORK AND I THINK IT'S BASICALLY WHAT WE'RE WHAT WE'VE BEEN AIMING FOR OR WHAT WAS INTENDED FROM 2020 12. I THINK IT'S JUST A FACTOR OF PROPORTIONS LIKE IF YOU GET ENOUGH PEOPLE IN THERE THERE'S GOING TO BE A REASON FOR RETAIL OUTSIDE OF MALL OF AMERICA. SO YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK YOU GIVE UP ON THE RETAIL AND THE WHOLE CONCEPT AN ACTIVATED URBAN AREA BUT I THINK WE HAVE TO BE REALISTIC ABOUT HOW MUCH COULD BE SUPPORTED AND JUST DOING IT IN THE RIGHT WAY SO THAT SO THAT IT IS SOMEWHAT CONCENTRATED AND DOES HAVE, YOU KNOW, AN URBAN FEEL IT VERSUS BEING JUST KIND OF DEVELOPED SPORADICALLY AROUND AROUND THE DISTRICT. SO I THINK THERE'S DEFINITELY STILL HOPE FOR WHAT YOU'RE PUTTING OUT THERE AND REASON TO TO PUSH FOR IT. I THINK WE JUST HAVE TO BE REALISTIC ABOUT HOW MUCH WE CAN EXPECT OF COMMERCIAL IN PARTICULAR AND IF IT IS YOU KNOW IF IT IS FOUR OR FIVE STOREY OFFICE OR FOUR OR FIVE STOREY APARTMENT BUILDINGS AT LEAST IF IT'S YOU KNOW, DONE IN EVERY OTHER WAY OR DEVELOPED AROUND THE WAY THAT WOULD DRIVE ACTIVATION OF AT LEAST LIKE THREE BLOCKS OF RETAIL THEN AT LEAST THERE'S SOMETHING THAT WOULD COME FROM IT EVENTUALLY. SO ALL RIGHT. IF I CAN PROVIDE ONE MORE STAFF PERSPECTIVE ABOUT A COUPLE OF THINGS ABOUT THE DISCUSSION AND I DON'T INTEND I THINK YOU'VE ALL KIND OF VOICED YOUR PERSPECTIVE ON IT SO THANKS FOR THE FEEDBACK. WE APPRECIATE THAT WILL CERTAINLY REPORT THAT TO THE COUNCIL. ANOTHER THING A COUPLE OTHER THINGS THAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING INTERNALLY AS A STAFF AND IT'S SURPRISING IN SOME WAYS BUT SOME OF THE PROJECTS AND BOOKS AND I KNOW THIS BEEN SHARED BEFORE SO I DON'T MEAN TO REPEAT IT IN A NEGATIVE WAY BUT OF THE PROJECTS THAT HAVE BEEN DEVELOPED IN BOOKS ACTUALLY HAVE RESULTED IN MORE FLOOR RATIO OR DEVELOPMENT INTENSITY. I MEAN THAT'S JUST ONE MEASURE AND BUT RESIDENTIAL DENSITY AS WELL. SO I THINK THE FORM IS A IS AN IMPORTANT THING TO TALK ABOUT. I THINK THE INTENSITY PIECE IS ALSO AN IMPORTANT THING TO TALK ABOUT. ONE OTHER PIECE THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT TO A DEGREE IS ALSO BUILDING ARE BRINGING THE BUILDINGS DIRECTLY RIGHT UP TO STREET. TOM MENTIONED THAT THE GUIDING PRINCIPLES OF THE DISTRICT PLAN ARE TO TRANSFORM DISTRICT FROM SUBURBAN TO URBAN YOU CAN CONSTRUCT A TOWER BUT IF IT'S SET BACK FAR FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT IT'S INTERACTING WITH TO AN ASKED TO IN ONE ASPECT THAT ALSO IS NOT FULLY ACHIEVING A MORE URBAN VISION AND SO I THINK THE DETAILS ARE IMPORTANT ON THAT THE LAST THING I'LL SAY AND I DON'T WANT TO AND I KNOW TOM HAS A GOOD EXTRA SLIDE ON THIS BUT WE DID JUST AS A POINT OF CLARIFICATION WE DID CHECK WITH PORT AUTHORITY STAFF ABOUT THE COST IMPLICATIONS OF REQUIRING TOWERS AND I THINK WHAT HE FOUND FROM THE PORT AUTHORITY STAFF AND HE HAS A SLIDE ON IT BUT TYPICALLY IN A RANGE BETWEEN AN INCREASE IN COST OF 20 TO 40% OF PROJECT CONSTRUCTION COSTS. SO THAT'S SIGNIFICANT THING. I APPRECIATE THE THOUGHTS WAITING FOR THE RIGHT PROJECT. I SINCERELY DO ANECDOTALLY AND I'M SURE TOM KNOWS THIS EVEN BETTER THAN ME IS I'M NOT SEEING A LOT OF TOWERS BEING BUILT IN THE TWIN RIGHT NOW IN TODAY'S DEVELOPMENT ENVIRONMENT AND KNOW SAINT PAUL IS A LITTLE BIT OF A DIFFERENT CASE BECAUSE OF SOME THE OTHER POLICIES THEY'VE ADOPTED. BUT YOU KNOW A LOT OF DEVELOPMENT HAPPENING IN FORT IN HIGHLAND AND I'M NOT SEEING A LOT OF TUNNEL THAT'S A LOT OF FIVE OVER ONE IN THAT DEVELOPMENT. WELL FINALLY I KNOW I'VE SPOKEN TOO MUCH HERE MAYBE BUT I THINK ONE OF THE LAST THINGS TO THINK ABOUT IS JUST SUBSIDY MEAN THE CITY CAN EFFECTUATE ANY DEVELOPMENT OUTCOME IF IT WANTS IF IT'S WILLING TO PUT X AMOUNT OF DOLLARS ON THE TABLE AND CERTAINLY IS THE KEY STICKING POINT THERE. SO THANKS FOR THE OPPORTUNITY . ACTUALLY THE FORD SITE IS A REALLY INTERESTING PARALLEL BETWEEN TO THIS NAMELY BECAUSE I THINK THEY RECENTLY AS OF THIS WEEK I THINK A REALLY TOUGH DISCUSSION DISCUSSION ABOUT DENSITY AT THAT SITE THEY WANTED TO PULL BACK ON DENSITY BELIEVE SO THAT'S AND THE CITY SAID NO WE WANT TO SEE A LEVEL OF INTENSITY. MY QUESTION IS AT WHAT POINT DO THEN DOES THE DEVELOPER SAY WELL THEN I'M SO THAT WOULD THAT'S ONLY MY THAT'S MY CONCERN I THINK BUT I DEFINITELY THINK THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SOUTH LOOP AND MAYBE THE FORD SITE IS THAT THEY STARTED WITH GREEN SPACE. IT STARTED WITH A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF GREEN SPACE AND SO I DON'T KNOW I GO AND FORTH ON WHETHER WHETHER IT'S BUILD IT AND THEY WILL COME OR YOU KNOW ,REQUIRE IT AND HOPEFULLY WE HOPE FOR THE BEST. SURE SURE. COOKED IT OH I'M SORRY MAN CHAIR JUST WOULD THERE BE CONSIDERATION REQUIRING FIVE OVER ONE? I THINK THAT'S VERY REASONABLE . I THINK IT'S VERY REASONABLE. THE CHAIR IF I CAN SPEAK TO THAT JUST FOR CLARIFICATION SAKE SO CAN COMMUNICATE YOUR PRECISE FEEDBACK TO THE COUNCIL OR YOU'RE REFERRING TO RESIDENTIAL PROJECTS ONLY ARE YOU REFERRING TO ALL KIND OF SUBSEQUENT DEVELOPMENT? I MEAN CEQ IS A GOOD EXAMPLE WHERE A PORTION OF THEIR DEVELOPMENT OBVIOUSLY IS NOT WOULD NOT ALIGN WITH THAT STRUCTURE HEIGHT THE OFFICE IS FOUR STOREYS IN HEIGHT AND YOU KNOW THINKING ABOUT INNOVATION AND TECHNOLOGY THERE'S SOME SPACES GUIDED FOR THAT USE WHICH ARE IN THE AIRPORT SAFETY ZONES THAT'S ANOTHER EXAMPLE WHERE SOME OF STRUCTURAL STRUCTURE HEIGHT REQUIREMENTS MIGHT PRESENT A BARRIER SORRY TO NO NO I TOOK THE GUIDANCE REFERRING TO AJAX AH IS SPECIFICALLY NOT SO MUCH THE DISTRICT OR THE ALEX DISTRICT AS THAT IS THAT I'M SORRY IS PROBABLY MORE OF ILLUMINATION OF THE QUESTION THAT ARE ADDITION TO THE QUESTION THAT NIC HAD MR. HOOKED IN I KNOW YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY. WELL I WORKED ON THE SEC BUILDING. I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN REALLY TALK ABOUT IT BUT THE IDEA OF OKAY SO THERE'S THAT BLUFF SITE WHERE THE RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD IS SEVERE WHATEVER AND NOW SOME THINGS ARE GOING TO GO THERE. MAYBE IT'S IN SOME IT CAMPUS NOW WHO KNOWS WHAT'S GOING TO GO THERE? WOULD I BE OKAY WITH THAT BEING A ONE STOREY BUILDING? I REALLY I DON'T KNOW. I DON'T KNOW IF I WOULD LIMIT THAT TO RESIDENTIAL I DON'T OUR MAYOR WOULD BE VERY HAPPY TO HEAR THAT MEAN THERE'S A BIG PUSH FOR SEMICONDUCTOR STUFF AND YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET A SIX STOREY BUILDING A SEMICONDUCTOR PRODUCTION AND IF I CHAIR ALBERT AND COMMISSIONER COOK DOWN IF I MAY OF COURSE STAFFERS AND SUGGESTING TO BACK AWAY FROM OUR MINIMUM AROUND FLOOR AREA RATIO THAT KERNEL THAT CURRENTLY IS THE IS THE MAIN MECHANISM OR TOOL THAT WE HAVE REQUIRE A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF DEVELOPMENT INTENSITY WHICH TYPICALLY RESULTS IN MULTIPLE STOREYS MULTIPLE BUT WE JUST GOT A FLOOR AND I WASN'T WASN'T PLEASED WITH THAT FOR SURE FOR STICK OR FOR SORRY FOR RESIDENTIAL I'M I'M THERE FOR SIX I DON'T KNOW ABOUT NONRESIDENTIAL I'M SOMEWHAT IN FAVOR OF OF IT'S STILL AND IT DOES GET A LITTLE TRICKY BECAUSE LIKE FLOOR FLOOR PLAYED TO FLOOR IS TALLER FOR OFFICE OR WHATEVER SIC IS AT FOUR STOREYS FOR THEIR OFFICE BUILDING WOULD BE LIKE THE SAME HEIGHT AS A SIX STOREY RESIDENTIAL. SO THERE'S SOME NUANCE THERE BUT I STILL THINK I'M IN FAVOR OF OF THAT TO MAYBE A HEIGHT OF WHATEVER THAT WOULD BE RATHER THAN FLOOR 60 FEET OR WHATEVER THAT WOULD BE. YEAH I KNOW THAT PRETTY MUCH AUTOMATICALLY RULES OUT SOME SORT OF IT CAMPUS TOO MR. CUNNINGHAM COULD POTENTIAL WORDING BE WHERE YOU KNOW 60 FEET WHERE WHERE WE SHOULDN'T SAY APPROPRIATE EXITS SUBJECTIVE BUT ESSENTIALLY ALLOWING THE TECH CAMPUS TO BE IN THE AIRPORT YOU KNOW RUNWAY EMERGENCY FLIGHT PATH THAT THEY CAN'T GO I I DON'T WORK FOR THE MAC I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE LIMIT IS BUT I'M ASSUMING I'VE APPLIED ENOUGH FAA PERMITS IN MY CAREER. I KNOW YOU CAN'T GO VERY HIGH AROUND AN AIRPORT AT LEAST AROUND THE FLIGHT PATH. SO IF ANYONE KNOWS WHAT THE BUILD HEIGHT LIMIT IS IN THOSE AREAS, I WOULD APPRECIATE THAT FEEDBACK I GUESS COMMISSIONER GUPTA SOME OF US DO WORK FOR MAC IT'S NOT IT'S IT'S THAT'S A DIFFICULT QUESTION I BELIEVE IT'S LIKE ANGULAR AND THINGS SO THE CITY DOES HAVE MAPS FOR THAT TYPE OF THING I'M SURE THAT COULD BE PROVIDED TO YOU BUT IT'S NOT QUITE SO SIMPLE. BUT THE KEY IS THAT CAN'T HAVE RESIDENTIAL ANYWHERE IN THAT CODE . SO CHAIR ALBERT AND I DID DO JUST THAT. IT VARIES FROM SITE TO SITE. ONE OF THE REASONS THAT YOU CAN'T JUST GIVE A BLANKET ANSWER FOR THE SOUTH LOOP DISTRICT THAT IT VARIES FROM SITE TO SITE BUT WE DID TEST ONE SITE IN SOUTH LOOP AND YOU KNOW YOU CAN GET UP TO CLOSE 100 FEET IN STRUCTURE HEIGHT ON THE CRANE IS ANOTHER DURING CONSTRUCTION SO THEY TYPICALLY HAVE TO SEEK SOME TYPE OF VARIANCE OR ALLOWANCE FROM FAA AND THEY HAVE TO PROVIDE A LOT OF DOCUMENTATION AROUND THAT. IT'S A NO HAZARD. IT'S CALLED I COULDN'T GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF ANECDOTALLY HOW ADDED COST SOME OF THAT ANALYSIS IS AND SOME OF ACOUSTIC STUFF THAT WE REQUIRE AROUND THE AIRPORT. BUT YOU KNOW IT DOES ADD SOME COST. COMMISSIONER GARNIER THANK YOU CHAIR. I GUESS WITH THAT INFORMATION I'M MORE IN FAVOR OF COMMISSIONER COOKED INS PATH I THINK A MINIMUM WOULD BE WOULD BE GOOD TO FURTHER THE GOAL OF THE SOUTH OF DISTRICT I GUESS MAYBE WE'LL BE BACK BUT WE WON'T BE HERE IN 13 YEARS. BUT MAYBE PLANNING MANAGER JOHNSON WILL BE HEARING THE OPPOSITE SAYING OKAY NOTHING HAPPENED WE SHOULD LOWER THIS. BUT I THINK IF WE'RE TRYING TO PUSH THE GOAL OF DENSITY A MINIMUM BUILDING HEIGHT MIGHT BE A A POSITIVE FOR THE BUILDING FOR THE CITY. THANKS AND THERE WOULD BE A POSSIBILITY THAT THEY COULD APPLY FOR A VARIANCE A CHAIR. THAT'S CORRECT. THEY'D HAVE TO MEET CERTAIN STATUTORY CRITERIA OF YOU KNOW DEMONSTRATING NOT A HARDSHIP YOU REMEMBER THE PHRASE IS I'VE BEEN OUT OF THE PRACTICAL PRACTICAL DIFFICULT THING THEY'D HAVE TO DEMONSTRATE THAT THEY'RE SUBJECTED TO PRACTICAL DIFFICULTY IN IN MEETING THE CODE REQUIREMENT THEN I AM AND I'M IN FAVOR OF IT I WOULD ANTICIPATE PD FLEXIBILITY AS BEING A MORE LIKELY SURE MECHANISM TO MAKE SUCH A REQUEST BUT YES YOU CAN MAKE IT THROUGH A VARIANCE TIMES CORRECT IN CHAIR YEAH. SO THAT THE WHERE WAS IT THE THAT THAT 5% I'M SORRY THERE'S JUST A LOT OF NUMBERS AND I MUST BEEN CONFUSED I DO HAVE IT CORRECT IN THE OUTLINE SO IT'S ACTUALLY 28% IS WHAT THE OFFICE IS ESTIMATED AT. BUT AGAIN WORD OF CAUTION NOT THE MOST RELIABLE. SO TAKE THAT HOWEVER YOU MAY IN FACT IT MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT HIGHER BECAUSE THERE'S SOME VACANCY SUBLEASES AS WELL SO IT ACTUALLY MIGHT BE A HIGHER NUMBER IN TERMS OF OFFICE VACANCY. SO I JUST WANT TO PROVIDE THAT CORRECTION DON'T PAY ATTENTION TO THE 5% ON THE SCREEN, COMMISSIONER. MR. WILSON CAN WE GO BACK TO A MAP OF SOME KIND? SURE. I THINK WE SHOULD BE A LITTLE BIT MORE CLEAR IF WE'RE SERIOUS ABOUT A SIX STORY THING. I'M TALKING ABOUT THE ENTIRE SOUTH HERE OR WHAT DO WE WHAT ARE WE SEEING ? I WOULD BE IN FAVOR OF THE ENTIRE SOUTH LOOP UNLESS THEY HAD SOME SORT OF DEAL OF FLEXIBILITY WHICH WOULD MEAN THAT THEY WOULD HAVE TO HAVE SOME SORT OF SIGNIFICANT REASON BEHIND WHY THEY WOULDN'T BE LOOKING AT THE HEIGHT THAT WE WOULD BE HOPING FOR. UNLESS IT'S IN AN AIRPORT ZONE, OF COURSE. COMMERCIAL CARY. THANKS. THANKS TO THE MALL OF AMERICA I THINK IS LIKE THREE. RIGHT. OR IF THERE'S A SECOND PHASE OF THEIR PLAN OR THEY'RE NOT GOING TO GO SIX STORIES. I DON'T THINK RIGHT. I THINK WE WERE LEANING TOWARDS FEET OR 64 OR WHATEVER THAT NUMBER IS. BUT YEAH, I SUPPOSE MALL OF AMERICA PROBABLY IS 60 FEET EITHER. FINE. YEAH. OKAY. THE CHAIR AND COMMISSIONERS LAST THING I'D SAY ABOUT IT IS KEEP IN MIND THAT ULTIMATELY ZONING IS GOING BE THE TOOL THAT SETS THESE PARAMETERS AND REQUIREMENTS. SO YOU KNOW IN TERMS OF YOUR LEVEL OF PRECISION WITHIN THE SOUTH OF DISTRICT PLAN UPDATE I YOU HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF FLEXIBILITY AND FUNGIBILITY THERE. I THINK WHERE THE RUBBER WILL MEET THE ROAD IS IF THE CITY UPDATES ITS ZONING CODE TO REFLECT THAT AND WE CERTAINLY CAN PRESENT DISCUSSION AND NUANCES TO THE CITY COUNCIL AND GET THEIR FEEDBACK AND REPORT BACK TO YOU ON WHAT THEIR PERSPECTIVE WAS AS WELL . DO WE FEEL READY TO MOVE ON TO THE NEXT QUESTION? I'LL JUST SAY ONE MORE THING. SO I MEAN I LIKE THAT WE'VE GONE IN THE DIRECTION OF 60 FEET AFTER ALL THE DISCUSSION JUST TO HAVE IT ON THE RECORD OF WHAT MY POSITION WOULD BE. I WOULD BE IN FAVOR OF AN EVEN HIGHER HEIGHT LIMITATION SELECTIVELY PARTICULARLY AROUND BLUE RIDGE AND CENTRAL STATION AND WHERE THE TWO PARK AND RIDES ARE IN SOME OF THOSE KEY PARCELS THERE I WOULD BE IN FAVOR OF AN EVEN HIGHER HEIGHT MINIMUM RIGHT ? ALL RIGHT. SO THE THIRD QUESTION FOR TONIGHT TO CONSIDER DOES THE PLANNING COMMISSION WANT TO PROVIDE ANY GUIDANCE FOR PUBLIC SPACES IN THE SOUTH LOOP? I ALLUDED TO THE QUASI PUBLIC SPACES AT 24TH AND LINDO THERE AT THE NORTHEAST AND SOUTHEAST CORNER OF THAT INTERSECTION NEAR THE THE THE TWO HOTELS THAT HAVE BEEN IN DEVELOPMENT AND THE RESTAURANT RIGHT THERE MY GOD ALL THESE NAMES ARE ESCAPING ME RIGHT NOW. I APOLOGIZE FOR THAT. BUT NONETHELESS SO WE'VE BEEN OBSERVING THE PUBLIC SPACE AND . WE JUST WANT TO PUT THAT BEFORE YOU THAT BEFORE ANOTHER GATEWAY OR A PUBLIC SPACE INTERSECTION IS DEVELOPED AT 34TH AND AMERICAN. WHAT SORT OF GUIDANCE SHOULD WE INCLUDE IN THE UPDATE TO MAKE SURE THAT IT IMPROVES UPON THE CONDITIONS THAT EXIST AT 24TH AND LYNDALE. COMMISSIONER TO THESE MATURE ISRAELIS ALSO CAN YOU JUST BE A LITTLE MORE SPECIFIC AND DON'T BE AFRAID BE BLUNT. LIKE WHAT DON'T WE LIKE ABOUT IT 24TH AND. SURE. COMMISSIONER, YOU'RE ASKING ME TO BE MEAN TO BE BLUNT. THIS IS STILL BEING BROADCASTED SO I'M GOING TO. SO IT'S NOT A VERY HOSPITABLE ENVIRONMENT. IT'S IT DOESN'T REALLY ENCOURAGE STAYING OR, YOU KNOW, RELAXING OR MEANDERING IN THAT PUBLIC SPACE. IT'S NEXT TO A TEN LANE ROAD TO IT'S WEST. IT HAS FREE RIDES IF YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH REWRITES THOSE ARE BASICALLY CHANNELIZED DRIVE LANES THAT ALLOW MOVEMENT OF THE VEHICLE PRETTY MUCH UNIMPEDED. AND SO IT'S VERY FAST. YOU HAVE A LOT OF CARS KIND OF ZOOMING IN FRONT OF THOSE SPACES. IT'S LOUD. IT'S REALLY WELL SHADED. THERE ARE USES ON NEAR IT THAT DON'T COMPLEMENTED. THEY DON'T PROVIDE THE ALL DAY ACTIVITY THAT MAYBE RESIDENTIAL I SUPPOSE THE RESTAURANT IS GOOD TO HAVE THERE BECAUSE THEN THEY YOU KNOW PEOPLE DO USE THAT THAT PUBLIC SPACE OR AGAIN LIKE THAT SPACE AT THE SOUTHEAST INTERSECTION. AS YOU KNOW THEY HAVE A DINING PATIO BUT IT'S A VERY SMALL PORTION IT I DON'T SEE IT OCCUPIED IN MY OBSERVATION I HAVEN'T DONE A FORMAL ANALYSIS OF ITS OCCUPANCY SO THIS IS PURELY ANECDOTAL BUT IT JUST FROM MY PERSPECTIVE THAT IT'S JUST VERY INHOSPITABLE TO WHAT A PUBLIC SPACE OUGHT TO BE AND TO ENCOURAGE TO STAY AND RELAX SO THE CONDITIONS AT 34TH AND AMERICAN KIND OF REFLECT SAME IN THAT AMERICAN BOULEVARD IS IS PRETTY THAT INTERSECTION IS FAIRLY HUGE I MEAN IN EXCESS OF I MEAN I WOULD SAY 120 FEET IN BOTH DIRECTIONS. SO THE CROSSING DISTANCES ACROSS THOSE ROADS TO ACCESS, YOU KNOW, PUBLIC SPACES THAT ARE AT THE CORNERS OF THAT INTERSECTION ARE VERY DEMANDING AND REALLY CHALLENGE CONCEPT OF A OF A PUBLIC SPACE THAT IS HARD TO ACCESS BY THE PUBLIC AND THEN YOU KNOW, ADDING ON TO THAT IS AGAIN THE THE TRAFFIC AND THE NOISE AND JUST THE THE CONDITIONS THERE DON'T REALLY LEND ITSELF TO A VERY HOSPITABLE PUBLIC SPACE. SO THAT'S MY BLUNTNESS. GRANT THOSE ARE ALL I YOU KNOW, IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER IF YOU WILL. BUT JUST FROM MY OBSERVATIONS AND YOU KNOW, MY OWN PROFESSIONAL OPINION, THEY DON'T REALLY LEND THEMSELVES TO BE VERY GOOD PUBLIC SPACES . CHAIR IF I CAN JUST ADD MY CREDENCE TO I THINK TOM'S OBSERVATION IS THAT I AM SIMILARLY ALIGNED WITH HIM THAT JUST SEE THOSE SPACES BEING FAIR AS I WOULD CONSIDER THEM UNDERUTILIZED BECAUSE THERE'S A THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THEM TO IMPROVE IF THEY GOT RID OF THE FREE RIGHTS AND THEY NARROW THE ROAD AND ACTUALLY CREATED A GATEWAY AT THE ENTRANCE OF LYNDALE FROM 24TH. I HAVEN'T I HAVEN'T SKETCHED UP AN IDEA OF WHAT THAT MIGHT LOOK LIKE. BUT AGAIN IT'S ABOUT JUST ABOUT CONTENDING WITH THE NOISE FROM TRAFFIC AND THE BUSYNESS ON THE ROAD AS OPPOSED THE BUSYNESS ON THE SIDEWALK. THERE IS NO THERE'S NO ONE USING THAT SIDEWALK. IT'S NOT REALLY WELL TRODDEN BY PEDESTRIANS INSTEAD IT'S MAINLY DOMINATED BY VEHICLES IN THE RIGHT OF IN FRONT OF IT . SO THAT'S AN ISSUE THAT A PUBLIC SPACE DESIGN AT 34TH AMERICA WOULD ALSO HAVE TO DEAL WITH COMMENSURATE TO THE EXPENDITURES. A LOT OF THE THINGS YOU DESCRIBED THERE WERE YOU KNOW, THE HIGH, HIGH INTENSITY OF THE ACTIVITY THERE BECAUSE THE ROADS ARE SO WIDE IT'S JUST REALLY UNFRIENDLY TO PEDESTRIANS. AND SO IT BRINGS UP A RELATED QUESTION I HAVE THAT'S NOT SPECIFIC TO THIS QUESTION YOU HAVE INSIDE BUT YOU OLD SHOCK OF THE ROAD AND THEN IT TURNS INTO 34TH AVENUE IS HUGE. IT'S 3 TO 4 LANES IN EACH DIRECTION. I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY JUSTIFICATION FOR THE ROAD BEING THAT WIDE WITH THE DEVELOPMENT THAT HAS ACTUALLY THERE. IS THERE ANY CONSIDERATION OF PUTTING THAT ROAD ON A DIET AND LOSING SOME LANES AND A CHAIR COMMISSIONER I WOULD HAVE TO DEFER TO TRANSPORTATION STAFF THAT ARE ATTENDANCE AND IF THEY CAN SPEAK TO THAT I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S ACTUALLY BEEN THAT THAT'S A PLAN BEING CONSIDERED FOR 34TH JULY TWO. CHAIR COMMISSIONER, IT DEPENDS ON WHAT YOUR GOAL OF DEVELOPMENT IS FOR THE DISTRICT THAT THE ROAD SIZES ARE BASED ON WHAT THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT INTENSITY IS AND KNOW WE DO NOT CURRENTLY SEE THAT BUT ON THE PREVIOUS PLANNING PROJECTIONS THOSE ROADS SLIGHTLY OVERDESIGNED AND THEY'RE TREMENDOUSLY OVERDESIGNED YOU LOOK AT THE EXISTING CONDITIONS SO IT'S A FUNCTION OF WHAT KIND OF DENSITY DO YOU ANTICIPATE AS YOU YOU WANT MORE DENSITY AND HIGHER BUILDINGS AND WITH HIGHER BUILDINGS COMES MORE PEOPLE AND MORE DIFFERENT TRANSPORTATION NEEDS. SO IT'S OF CART AND HORSE. SO YES SOME THOSE ROADS ESPECIALLY OLD SHAKOPEE AS YOU GO AROUND THE CURVE THAT IS CURRENTLY WIDER THAN IT NEEDS TO BE AT THE AND PROBABLY WILL BE WIDER IT NEEDS TO BE WITH THE CURRENT PROJECTIONS UM SO WE DON'T HAVE A PLAN TO NARROW THAT ROAD AT THE MOMENT BUT WITH CERTAINLY AS THAT ROAD GETS RECONSTRUCTED IN THE FUTURE WOULD LOOK AT IT AT THAT OPPORTUNITY IN TIME. COMMISSIONER CURRY THANKS CHAIR. WELL I'M GLAD THE COMMISSIONER COOKED AND BROUGHT UP STREETS BEFORE I DID BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE I'M ALWAYS BRINGING UP STREETS. I MEAN I THINK THE STREETS ARE HONESTLY KIND OF ONE OF THE BIGGER ISSUES WITH THE OUTCOME OF THE SOUTH LOOP DISTRICT IN GENERAL JUST BECAUSE AGAIN THE BLOCKS ARE SO LARGE SO JUST LEADING TO APARTMENT BUILDINGS THAT ARE CAN TAKE UP MORE SPACE AND PROBABLY LESS DENSE OVERALL WHERE THEY'RE NOT GOING TO THE STREET NECESSARILY ALONG THE ENTIRE STREET LENGTH. BUT I DIDN'T EVEN REALIZE THERE WAS A PUBLIC SPACE AT 24TH AND WINDOW LIKE I HAD TO REALLY LOOK HARD TO FIND IT THERE SO I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF I'D CALL THAT A PUBLIC SPACE BECAUSE IT SEEMS PRETTY SMALL SO SHOULD PUBLIC SPACES BE DESIGNED IN A STATE BY STATE BASIS? I MEAN SURE IT WE SHOULD FIGURE OUT SOMETHING A LOT DIFFERENT THAN WHAT WE'VE GOT RIGHT NOW THAT'S A COMMERCIAL CHARACTER. YEAH TOUR I THINK THE WAY I'M LOOKING AT THAT 24TH WINDOW THING THOUGH WHAT MORE COULD YOU DO HONESTLY? I MEAN YOU'RE IT BASED ON WHERE IT IS. THAT'S WHERE YOU WERE GOING TO GET I MEAN I'M NOT A LANDSCAPE DESIGNER BUT. YEAH. 24TH AVENUE IS A TWO LANE ROAD AND THAT ONE PROBABLY ISN'T TOO OVERDESIGNED BECAUSE YOU GET ALL THE PEOPLE LIVE IN THE MALL. I DON'T KNOW. I MEAN I THINK THAT'S JUST THE NATURE OF WHAT THIS NEIGHBORHOOD IS THAT SITE IS REALLY ACTIVE. IT'S HARD TO PARK THERE. IT'S AS A VERY ACTIVE SITE ON WINDOW AND 24TH COMMISSIONER IF MAY I GUESS IN AN ALTERNATIVE WAY TO LOOK AT THAT IS SHOULD THOSE BE OPEN SPACES OR SHOULD WE MAXIMIZE THE OF THOSE SITES AND ALLOW DEVELOPMENT THERE SO RECOGNIZING THAT THESE ARE VERY LOUD HUGE INTERSECTIONS THAT ARE INHOSPITABLE TO PUBLIC SPACES, DO YOU WANT TO RECONSIDER GUIDANCE OF CREATING THESE GATEWAYS AT INTERSECTIONS INSTEAD FAVORING JUST ALLOWING DEVELOPMENT TO FILL THOSE SPACES WHERE YOU WOULD YOU WOULD GET MORE USE OUT OF IT OR UTILITY OUT OF IT THAN AN ACTUAL PUBLIC SPACE AND THOSE PUBLIC SPACES CAN GO ANYWHERE THEY DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO HAVE TO BE FOCUSED ON AN INTERSECTION AND THERE ARE PUBLIC SPACE REQUIREMENTS FOR HSR AND WE WOULD CONSIDER THAT ANY DEVELOPMENT APPLICATION SO IT'S ABOUT THOSE PUBLIC SPACES SHOULD GO OR MAYBE I SHOULD TO THEM AS OPEN SPACES BECAUSE AGAIN THOSE ARE NOT TECHNICALLY PUBLIC THOSE ARE ON PRIVATE PROPERTY BUT THEY ARE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC TO TO USE. SO I JUST PUT THAT BEFORE YOU AS WELL COMMISSIONER THINGS SURE. YEAH I THINK THERE'S NO NEED TO THEM ON THE EXTERIOR TO BECOME GATEWAY TO THE AREA. I THINK YOU'D GET MORE UTILIZATION OR VALUE OF ACTUALLY PUTTING A BUILDING THERE BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT VERY FRIENDLY FOR PEOPLE TO BE AT I THINK SOMETHING MORE ON THE INTERIOR WHERE THERE'S LESS TRAFFIC OR HOPEFULLY LESS TRAFFIC. SMALLER ROADS WOULD BE MORE ENTICING FOR PEOPLE TO GO TO AND UTILIZE SO AND THAT AGAIN IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU KNOW, SHOULD COULD HELP ACTIVATE THE AREA IS BY HAVING A AN OPEN SPACE THAT PEOPLE WANT TO GO TO SO I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THAT WHERE THAT LOCATION WOULD BE THOUGH I REALLY GO BACK TO THE FORD SITE BECAUSE. I REALLY THINK THAT THE VISION FOR THAT SITE AROUND THEIR PUBLIC SPACES IS SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD BE LOOKING AT BECAUSE WHEN WE LOOK AT A SITE BY STATE BASIS I THINK WE GET KIND OF A HODGEPODGE AND NOT NECESSARILY SOMETHING THAT IS COHESIVE AND MAYBE DRAWS PEOPLE FROM ONE SPOT TO ANOTHER. SO IT'S ALL WELL AND GOOD TO BE SAVED BY SITE BUT I THINK IF WE REALLY WANT TO SEE OPEN SPACE AND PUBLIC WE MAY HAVE TO PUT SOME THAT'S NOT MY MONEY BUT I GUESS IT'S SOME OF MY MONEY BEHIND BEHIND IT AND REALLY MAKE IT A DESTINATION. I THINK CONTINUING ON WHAT THEY DID AT BLOOMINGTON CENTRAL STATION AND MAKING THAT A CORRIDOR OF SORTS OR SOMETHING CONNECTS THE MALL TO THAT AREA WOULD BE A SMART THING TO DO. I DON'T NECESSARILY THINK THAT YOU CAN MAKE IT SORT OF A GREEN LIKE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IN LYNDALE AND HAVE AN RETROFIT. UM, BUT I LIKE THE VISION OF IT. I LIKE THE IDEA OF IT SO I'M NOT IN FAVOR OF SORT OF SITE BY SITE BASIS COMMISSION CARRY THINGS SURE. JUST EVEN REDUCING THE LANE OR THE YOU KNOW, THESE ROAD WIDTHS AND CREATING MORE GREEN SPACE ALONG THE SIDES OF THE ROADS LIKE 30TH AVENUE LOOKS LIKE THAT'S FIVE LANES WIDE WITH A SUBSTATION AT ONE END SO THERE'S NEVER ANYBODY THERE AND THEN THE SEMICONDUCTOR PLANT THE OTHER END OF THAT SO AGAIN JUST AN IDEA BUT MAYBE THE ROADS ARE ONE PLACE TO START TO CREATE MORE OPEN SPACE MAZZUCATO I AGREE COMMISSIONER CURRIE ON THAT I KNOW AS LONG SAID THEY'RE DESIGNED THAT WAY FOR A REASON WHICH I CAN APPRECIATE BUT I MEAN NOW SOME OF THESE ARE DEVELOPED AND SO IF YOU COULD PUT AN EASEMENT THERE OR SOMETHING SO 50 YEARS FROM NOW WE NEED TO TAKE THAT BACK AND REPAVE IT, GO IT BUT YOU KNOW YOU LOOK AT BLOOMINGTON CENTRAL STATION AND QUITE BIT OF SOUTH OF THE DEVELOPMENTS THERE AND WE'VE GOT SOME HUGE ROADS MAN THAT 30TH AVENUE IS WAY TOO BIG AND IT'S TWO LANES TOO BIG AND SO YEAH YOU TAKE SOME OF THAT BACK AND MAKE IT GREEN SPACE, MAKE IT MORE WALKABLE. YEAH, I'M IN FAVOR OF THAT AS OPPOSED TO THE POCKET PARKS OR WHATEVER WE'RE CALLING THESE THINGS ON THE CORNERS A LITTLE TORN I GUESS I WOULD BE OKAY IF YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT'S AN INTERESTING QUESTION. SHOULD WE JUST ALLOW THEM TO BE DEVELOPED INSTEAD OF REQUIRING SOME SORT OF OPEN SPACE THERE IF THEY'RE NOT BEING USED? YEAH, I DON'T KNOW. I MEAN YOU LOOK AT THAT SITE AND AGAIN LIKE DON'T KNOW IF ANY OPEN SPACE WOULD HAVE WORKED AT THAT CORNER AND WHY DIDN'T WE ALLOW IT TO BE DEVELOPED? SO I DON'T KNOW I BE CONVINCED EITHER WAY OF THAT I DON'T KNOW IF I HAVE A STRONG OPINION. MR. JOHNSON, THAT'S YOUR APPROACH. IF I CAN JUST LEND ONE OR TWO SMALL POINTS TO THIS IS ONE THING THAT WILL HELP STAFF IN THE FUTURE AS SITES REDEVELOP AS YOU KNOW WE HAVE THE TOOL OF PARK DEDICATION. SO FOR SITES THAT ARE PLANNING THE CITY HAS THE OPTION TO REQUIRE CASH PAYMENTS OR LAND AND SO GETTING SOME OF THIS GUIDANCE IN THE DISTRICT PLAN HELPS HAVE THOSE CONVERSATIONS WITH THE LANDOWNER AS TO WHAT THE CLEAR EXPECTATION IS. SO HOPEFULLY THAT HELPS ILLUMINATE KIND OF WHY WE'RE ASKING THE QUESTION IN ADDITION TO WHAT SOME OF THE DEFICIENCIES OF THE EXISTING SPACES ARE THAT WE SEE THE OTHER PIECES TOO IS ONE THING TO NOTE IS THAT THESE SPACES WERE INTENDED TO SERVE DUAL PURPOSE THEY WERE INTENDED BE USED BY THE PUBLIC OR AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC BUT ALSO SERVE AS GATEWAYS AND AT THIS TIME AS TOM NOTED, YOU KNOW, WE DIDN'T HAVE CREATIVE PLACEMAKING STAFF WE DIDN'T HAVE STAFF WHO SPECIALIZED IN THIS SPECIFIC OF EXPERTIZE. ONE OF THE REASONS WE'RE LISTING ON THE SLIDE FROM JUST A STAFF RECOMMENDATION STANDPOINT IS THAT I GUESS WHAT WE EMPHASIZE THE MOST IS THAT IF WE WANT TO CREATE GATEWAYS FOR SOUTH LOOP TO MAKE IT MUCH MORE ICONIC OR UNIQUE TO AREA WE SHOULD TAP INTO THAT EXPERTIZE AS OPPOSED TO HAVE SOMETHING SO PRESCRIPTIVE IN THE DISTRICT PLAN. SO HOPEFULLY THAT JUST KIND OF SAYS WHAT'S ON THE SLIDE IN A DIFFERENT WAY IS YOU'RE YOU YEAH I THINK THE LAST THING I'LL SAY ON THIS IS I'VE SAID IT A MILLION TIMES IF YOU'RE EVEN INCLUDING TONIGHT BUT SOME OF THOSE INHERENT PROBLEM PARTICULARLY AS YOU GO FURTHER EAST IS YOU'RE ONLY THERE IF YOU MEANT TO GO THERE THERE'S NO ONE'S DRIVING THROUGH UNLESS THEY MEANT TO GO TO THE COFFEE SHOP OR THEY'RE SEEING SOMEBODY THEY KNOW. BUT NO AND EVEN IF YOU LIVE IN BLOOMINGTON YOU'RE NOT GOING TO THIS NEIGHBORHOOD UNLESS YOU'RE MEANT TO. AND SO WHAT CAN WE DO ON 24TH AVENUE IN PARTICULAR WHERE THERE IS GENERAL TRAFFIC TO DRAW THEM EAST TO GET INTO THIS NEIGHBORHOOD? SO IF THERE WAS SOME SORT OF A MORE TO YOUR POINT COMMISSIONER ALBRECHT MORE OF A PLAN ON 24TH AVENUE TO SAY HEY LOOK THERE'S A BUNCH OF COOL STUFF OVER HERE TOO IN A VERY COORDINATED INTENTIONAL EFFORT. I WOULD BE IN FAVOR OF THAT TO TRY TO DRAW PEOPLE IN TO SOUTH LOOP FURTHER EAST BECAUSE THAT'S THE PROBLEM THIS NEIGHBORHOOD WILL ALWAYS HAVE IS THAT THERE'S JUST NO DRIVE THROUGH TRAFFIC SO GIVE ENOUGH GUIDANCE. YES, YES, SURE. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. SO JUST TO GIVE YOU THE OPPORTUNITY TO DISCUSS ANY I MEAN THIS HAS BEEN A PRETTY WIDE RANGING DISCUSSION AND YOU KNOW, WHETHER IT'S BEEN RELATED TO THE QUESTIONS THAT STAFF HAS PREPARED NOT BUT GIVING YOU THE OPPORTUNITY TO PROVIDE ANY GUIDANCE THAT WE CAN USE AS WE GO FORWARD. COMMISSIONER HIGDON THANKS, MADAM CHAIR. MR. SAMUELSON, COULD YOU PULL UP EXHIBIT B AGAIN RECOGNIZING YOU IN PARTICULAR ARE NOT THE RIGHT PERSON TO ANSWER THIS QUESTION BUT IT IS CERTAINLY TO ME AS TO WHY THE TRAILS DON'T CONNECT FROM THE WHAT WE'RE CALLING HERE THE HOG BACK PONDS OR THE BASS PONDS AND YOU GET INTO THE SORT OF LOOPY PART THERE THAT'S UNDER THE AIRPORT SAFETY AND THEY DON'T CONNECT TO WHERE THE TRAIL IS. THAT'S TO LEAD INTO THE VISITOR CENTER. WHY IS THAT AGAIN RECOGNIZING YOU DON'T WORK IN PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSIONER CHAIR I BELIEVE THAT THAT THAT CONNECTION WAS AND THERE WERE A LOT OF DIFFICULTIES IN LOCATING A TRAIL WITHIN THAT IT'S JUST NOT VERY HOSPITAL OR IT'S NOT A VERY CONDUCIVE TOPOGRAPHY TO CREATING A TRAIL CONNECTION BETWEEN THOSE TWO POINTS. I THINK THAT WAS PART OF IT. SO THERE WAS A GREAT AMOUNT OF EXPENSE AND I THINK THERE WAS ALSO SOME WETLAND AREAS TOO THAT WOULD HAVE COMPLICATED LOCATING A TRAIL IN THAT SECTION IT WAS REMOVED FROM CONSIDERATION. I CAN GET MORE I COULD CERTAINLY GET MORE INFORMATION TO THE REASONING BEHIND IT WAS WHY THAT WAS REMOVED BECAUSE IT WAS THERE IN 2012 IN THE THAT'S RIGHT IN THAT OPEN SPACE FRAMEWORK MAP YEAH YEAH I'D LIKE TO SEE MORE OF THAT AS THIS COMES BACK TO US TO ME THAT EVEN IF IT'S DIFFICULT MAN TO NOT HAVE THOSE CONNECTED SEEMS WILD TO ME I KNOW MAYBE YOU HAVE TO BUILD PEDESTRIAN BRIDGES AND MAYBE IT IS REALLY EXPENSIVE BUT I GOT AT LEAST LIKE TO KNOW WHAT IS THAT IS IT IS IT $1,000,000 IS IT $10 MILLION LIKE WHAT WHAT WOULD IT TAKE IS IT A FEDERAL VARIANCE? I DON'T I DON'T KNOW BUT I WOULD AT LEAST LIKE TO KNOW WHAT WOULD IT TAKE BECAUSE TO ME THAT IS AS A HUGE DISAPPOINTMENT IF WE CAN'T GET ALL THAT CONNECTED CONNECTED . THE OTHER COMMENTS COMMISSIONER I HAVE MORE STUFF IS GOING I WOULD LIKE US AND I NEED TO BE CAREFUL HERE BECAUSE OF MY EMPLOYER I LIKE US TO TAKE ANOTHER LOOK AT THE NORTHERN MOST OF THE RUNWAY PROTECTION ZONE THAT IS SHOULD STRIVE UP TO GREEN AND WHITE HERE IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING NOT PROFESSIONALLY OR MORE ANECDOTALLY THAT THERE IS MORE OPPORTUNITIES THERE THAN WHAT WE ARE USING IT FOR RIGHT NOW I KNOW NOTHING CAN BE BUILT THERE BUT COULD IT PERHAPS BE A PARK IF IT'S A HUGE PARCEL OF LAND THAT IS JUST OFF AND JUST SITTING THERE EMPTY? THERE'S A LOT OF PLANE SPOTTERS OUT THERE AND OTHER PEOPLE THAT WOULD LOVE TO BE IN PARK. CAN WE PUT A LOOPING TRAIL AND SOME BENCHES THERE AND GIVE A NICE PLACE FOR PLANE SPOTTERS? I THINK THEY WOULD LOVE AND THEN IT DRIES. THERE'S LIKE A THERE'S A HUGE AVIATION COMMUNITY THAT LOVES TO JUST GO OUT AND TAKE PICTURES OF PLANES AND THEN THEY COME HERE THEN THEY GO EAT AT OUR RESTAURANTS AND DO OTHER THINGS. SO I WOULD LIKE US TO TAKE ANOTHER LOOK AT THIS AND HOPE MY EMPLOYER DOESN'T WATCH THE BLOOMINGTON PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING. MR. CUNNINGHAM THANK YOU CHAIR AS SOMEONE WHO HAS A THREE YEAR OLD WHO LOVES TO GO TO THE AIRCRAFT AREA AT MSP, I AM IN TOTAL FAVOR OF THAT BECAUSE THE COMMISSIONER COOKED INTO POINT I HAVE GONE TO THE PANDA EXPRESS IN RICHFIELD BY AIRCRAFT VIEWING AREA SO WHY NOT USE THAT UNUSED? CURRENTLY A NEW SPACE AS A WAY TO GET PEOPLE TO ENGAGE WITH SOUTH LOOP I AGREE I HAVE A TWO AND A HALF YEAR OLD SO SLIGHTLY YOUNGER BUT SHE DOES LOVE TO LOOK AT PLANES AND WE DO FREQUENT ALL THOSE RESTAURANTS OVER THERE JUST TO GRAB SOMETHING TO SIT IN THE PARKING LOT AND EAT SO COMMISSIONER CURRY THANKS CHAIR YEAH JUST MY LAST COMMENT I THINK LAST MEETING CHAIR HAD A GREAT IDEA IN TERMS OF JUST LIKE WHAT WAS LIKE PROMOTING FOOD TRUCKS ONCE A MONTH OR SOMETHING. I THINK IT WAS YOUR IDEA I DON'T KNOW SOMEBODY MENTIONED THAT BUT LIKE IF THE CITY WAS TO INVEST IN THE AREA IN ANY WAY MAYBE YOU KNOW, INVESTING IN A GREEN SPACE OR A PUBLIC SPACE WHERE YOU COULD THEN SO, YOU KNOW, HAVE AN ATTRACTION LIKE THAT ON A MONTHLY BASIS THAT THAT WOULD BRING PEOPLE AND I THINK THAT WOULD BE YOU KNOW, THAT WOULD BE JUST A GOOD WAY TO KNOCK OUT THE GREEN SPACE, GET SOME PEOPLE IN THE AREA. SO THAT'S A COMMISSIONER SO SORRY I MISSED YOUR HAND NO WORRIES. CAN YOU GUYS HEAR ME? YES, PERFECTLY OKAY. NO, I WAS JUST GOING ADD ON MOST OF THE POINTS I WAS GOING TO ADD ONTO SOMEONE MENTIONED IT SO I AGREE WITH A LOT OF THE THINGS THAT YOU GUYS SAID. SECONDLY, JUST A COMMENT ON THE AIR PARK VIEWING AREA. I THOUGHT I WAS THE ONLY ONE WHO DID THAT AND I USUALLY DON'T TELL PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, I WANT WEIRD ANYTHING BUT SO IT'S GOOD TO KNOW THAT OTHER PEOPLE DO THAT AS WELL AND I WOULD BE IN SUPPORT HAVING SOMETHING LIKE THAT YEAH. KIRSTEN MCGOVERN YEAH I MIRROR EVERYONE'S OPINION ON THIS IT'S A GRAY AREA IT'S RIGHT IN THE ZONE SO LET'S TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION AND START REALLY LOOKING AT IT BECAUSE THERE'S THAT PIECE OF LAND ALONE HAS SO MUCH POTENTIAL COMPARED TO WHAT WE'VE TALKING ABOUT TONIGHT AND AND I THINK WE SHOULD REALLY DIG INTO THAT COMMERCIAL KITCHEN. THANKS VERY MUCH. I WANT TO GO BACK TO THE FOOD TRUCK THING AND SO WHAT MAKES ME SAD IS THAT THERE ARE FOOD TRUCKS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD ON A WEEKLY BASIS AND YOU DON'T KNOW ABOUT IT. AND SO WHAT ARE WE DOING WRONG AND NOT GETTING THAT WORD OUT AND THERE'S PLENTY OF SPACE FOR A BUNCH OF FOOD TRUCKS LIKE THE ROAD BETWEEN THE PARK AND BLOOMINGTON CENTRAL STATION IN THE HYATT THERE COULD FIT SIX FOOD TRUCKS AND THERE ARE CERTAIN DAYS IN THE SUMMERTIME WHERE THERE ARE LIKE FOUR FOOD TRUCKS OUT THERE AND YOU'RE ON THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND KNOW IT. SO IT'S AS MUCH OF A QUESTION IS WHAT ARE WE DOING TO GET THAT WORD OUT AS IT IS TO PROVIDE A SPACE FOR CHERYL RICHTER IF I CAN SPEAK TO THAT COMMENT, ONE THING I THINK THAT IS VERY ENCOURAGING FROM THE PORT AUTHORITY IS THEIR ROBUST GROWTH AND SERVICES AND PROGRAMING DIRECTED TOWARDS SMALL BUSINESS. SO THAT'S IN MY TIME AT THE CITY OF BLOOMINGTON. I THINK THAT'S THE BIGGEST SHIFT AT LEAST IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS IS TRYING TO COME UP WITH MORE INTENTIONAL AND CREATIVE WAYS TO SUPPORT SMALL BUSINESS ALSO AND I'LL DEFINITELY SHARE THAT FEEDBACK WITH BARB WOLF AND THE OTHER FOLKS IN THE PORT WHO ARE FOCUSED ON ON THOSE TASKS. YEAH, I'M NOW REMEMBERING THE CONVERSATION ABOUT THE FOOD TRUCK BECAUSE I THINK I WAS TALKING PORTLAND AND HOW THEY CREATE ALMOST A SEMI-PERMANENT FOR FOOD TRUCKS SO PEOPLE KNOW AND THEY GO THERE AND THERE ARE RESTROOMS AND I MEAN LIKE PORTABLE RESTROOMS BUT LIKE PICNIC TABLES AND THINGS LIKE THAT. SO YOU'RE CREATING A SPACE EVEN IF IT'S NOT FULLY PERMANENT. IT'S KIND OF A SEMI-PERMANENT I THINK THE ONE THAT I WENT TO WAS JUST IN A PARKING LOT. THEN THEY TRANSFORMED THE PARKING LOT INTO THAT FOOD TRUCK SPOT AND THERE WERE HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE THERE. I'M SURE YOU'VE DONE SOMETHING ONLY OR FINISHED. YEAH GO FOR OKAY THANK YOU. IF I COULD ASK IS MR. WHOEVER HAS CONTROL OF THE SCREENS IN FRONT OF US TO PULL THE BLACK BOX DOWN SO YOU CAN SEE THE CORNER OF THE MAP THERE I HAVE A THANK YOU I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT HOW THE TRAILS WORK RIGHT WHERE THE CURSOR IS NOW AT THE TOP. RIGHT. SO ANOTHER MASSIVE DISAPPOINTMENT ME IS THAT OUR TRAILS DO NOT CONNECT TO FORT SNELLING. WE ARE RIGHT THERE BUT THERE'S NO PATH THAT GOES DOWN THAT REALLY STEEP BLUFF TO GET TO A WHOLE ANOTHER NETWORK OF TRAILS THAT CAN TAKE YOU ALL THE WAY TO DOWNTOWN SAINT PAUL. WE'RE MISSING THIS TINY LITTLE CHUNK AND I'M PRETTY SURE THAT'S ON FEDERAL LAND AND SO THAT'S PROBABLY WHY IT'S STUCK . BUT I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THE OVER THE CITY ADVOCATE IF IT'S NOT OUR LAND TO GET A TRAIL CONNECTION BECAUSE IF YOU'RE EXITING THE CITY IN THIS CORNER YOUR ONLY OPTION IS TO GO ON THE 494 494 BRIDGE WHICH IS TOTALLY INHOSPITABLE BUT YOU CAN'T GO DOWN THE BLUFF. AND THEN THERE'S THIS WHOLE OTHER NETWORK OF TRAILS THAT GOES RIGHT INTO FORT SNELLING STATE PARK AND YOU CAN'T GET THERE. THE ONLY WAY TO GET TO PORT CITY IS TO GO UP AND THROUGH THE AIRPORT AND CROSS THE BRIDGE THAT HAS NO PEDESTRIAN OR BICYCLE CROSSING TO GET DOWN INTO FORT SNELLING BUT WE'RE RIGHT THERE SO I WOULD LOVE TO SEE US ADVOCATE IF IT'S NOT OUR LAND TO GET A CONNECTION TO FORTS. NOW THERE'S TRAILS THAT ARE IN FORT SNELLING. WE'RE REALLY CLOSE. YOU JUST GOT GET DOWN LIKE 100 FEET AND IF THE CITY WANTS MORE DETAIL WHAT I'M TRYING TO EXPLAIN THERE ARE MORE THAN HAPPY TO TO DO THAT I'M CURIOUS ON THIS MAP THERE'S THE PINK DOTTED OUTLINE THE REDEVELOPMENT SITES TO INCLUDE PARK OR RECREATION SPACE. I THINK IF WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ABOUT THE RUNWAY PROTECTION ZONE BEING SOME SORT OF DESTINATION AND CORRECT CONNECTING THAT IN SOME SORT OF GREENSPACE KIND OF SORTS TO THE BLOOMINGTON CENTRAL STATION PARK WOULD BE MORE IMPACTFUL THAN TRYING TO FORCE PARK PUBLIC RECREATION POTENTIALLY ON EITHER ANY OF THAT THOSE AREAS IT'S JUST MY INITIAL THOUGHT. I THINK THERE'S MORE POTENTIAL MAKING A SHORTER CONNECTION THERE OF SOME KIND THAN TO TRY AND HODGEPODGE SOMETHING TOGETHER WHERE WHEREAS LIKE COMMISSIONER OAKTON SAID IF WE WERE TO DRIVE UP DENSITY AND SOME OF THOSE SITES THAT ARE RIGHT NOW AIRPORT PARKING WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO SEE MORE OF A PURPOSE OR ENVISIONED GREEN GREENSPACE I LIKE THE GREEN STREET IDEA I DON'T SEE THAT REALLY CONNECTING TO THE BLUE CROSS. SORRY BLOOMINGTON CENTRAL STATION AND OR THE RUNWAY PROTECTION THOUGH THE CHAIR IF I MAY I THINK THE LRT ALIGNMENTS THAT BE JUST A MISTAKE ON MY PART WHERE THE SYMBOLOGY IS OVERLAPPING AND SO THAT THAT GREEN STREET CONCEPT WOULD APPLY I BELIEVE FROM 30TH TO 34TH IN THAT GAP AND I THINK JUST I THINK THE SYMBOLS ARE OVERLAID ON TOP OF EACH OTHER. SO THAT MIGHT ADDRESS WHAT YOU'RE CONCERNED ABOUT OR AT LEAST I PROVIDING THAT CORRECTION TO THE MAP AND HOW IT'S DEPICTED. THAT'S THAT'S ON ME. I THE MAP INSIDE I MIGHT HAVE SURE SURE. OKAY AND. YEAH I MIGHT HAVE CONFUSED THE SYMBOLOGY SO I APOLOGIZE FOR THAT IF I IF I MAY I'M SURE I'LL WRITTEN IN TIME CAN SPEAK TO THIS BUT ONE OF THE I GUESS ONE OF THE WRINKLES OR CHANGES TO THIS UPDATED MAP IS THAT THE EXISTING DISTRICT PLAN IS VERY PRESCRIPTIVE ABOUT WHERE ON THESE SITES THESE SITES CURRENTLY HAVE PARKS ON THEM AND THEY ALSO IDENTIFY ONE OF THEM AS HAVING A EXCUSE ME I'M HAVING A PLAYGROUND SPECIFICALLY. AND SO I THINK ONE OF THE THE MAIN CHANGE AS SHOWN HERE ON THIS EXHIBIT IS JUST GOING AN APPROACH THAT'S A LITTLE BIT MORE FLEXIBLE. AND I THINK COMING OUT THE 2021 CITIES PARK SYSTEM MASTER PLAN YOU KNOW I THINK WHEN WHEN YOU USE THE TERM PARKS AND RECREATION YOU SAY TEN OR 20 YEARS AGO I THINK IT TAKES ON A VERY DIFFERENT MEANING NOW AS TO HOW YOU CAN PROGRAM OR USE DIFFERENT SPACES FOR RECREATION. SO I GUESS WHAT I WOULD ENCOURAGE AS PART OF THIS IS THINKING ABOUT IT IN SUCH A WAY THAT IT'S NOT LIKE FIELDS, IT'S NOT TYPICAL PLAYGROUNDS. IT HAS MORE FLEXIBILITY TO KIND OF TAKE ON A PROGRAM OR FACILITY THAT IS MORE IN ALIGNMENT WITH SOUTH LOOP. SO I JUST WANTED TO MAKE THAT POINT. COMMISSIONER CURRIE THANKS CHAIR. YEAH I THINK I MEAN I THINK THE THE TRAIL ASPECT JUST HAVING I'M TRYING TO THINK OF HOW TO PUT THIS BASICALLY MAKING THIS A SPACE THAT AN AREA THAT'S MORE ACCESSIBLE TO ACTIVE PEOPLE WOULD INSTEAD OF BEING I MEAN IT'S JUST REALLY NOT CONNECTED TO MUCH IF ANYTHING AT ALL AND PERHAPS WHETHER IT'S TRAILS TO FORT SNELLING OR SOMEHOW CONNECTING INTO ROUTES THAT PEOPLE TAKE ON ROAD BIKES LIKE ANYTHING TO GET PEOPLE COMING THROUGH ON AN ACTIVE BASIS IN THE SUMMERTIME I THINK WOULD BE PROBABLY THE BEST TIME THE BEST WAY TO GET PEOPLE TO COME THROUGH THE SPACE OR TO COME THROUGH THE AREA AND HAVE A A LIKE A A NOTABLE PARK SIZE RATHER THAN LIKE OKAY THIS IS KIND OF THE CORNER OF AN APARTMENT DEVELOPMENT OR SOME LITTLE AREA THAT WE HAVE TO DEDICATE TO THE CITY BUT SOMETHING THAT'S LIKE ACTUALLY NOTABLE THAT PEOPLE CAN CONGREGATE AT AND AND BE ACTIVE. I THINK THAT'S I MEAN WHAT YOU GUYS ARE TALKING HERE AND LEVERAGING ALL OF YOU KNOW THE NATURAL BEAUTY OF THE RIVER AND THE BLUFFS AND THESE TRAILS AROUND HERE IS PROBABLY THE I DON'T KNOW I THINK THAT'S JUST A GOOD WAY TO TO GET PEOPLE TO HAVE INTEREST AND DRAW PEOPLE INTO THE AREA YOU'RE HOOKED ON. AND I'M SURE I TOTALLY WITH COMMISSIONER CURRIE TO ME THE GEM OF THIS NEIGHBORHOOD THE BLUFF WHAT BOTHERS ME SO MUCH ABOUT YOU DANA AND LIKE THAT HUGE TOWER THEY PUT UP NEXT TO TARGET LIKE HOW IS THAT MORE DESIRABLE THAN WHAT WE HAVE BE NEXT TO THIS GORGEOUS BLUFF THAT IS SUPER UNIQUE TO OUR LOCATION RIGHT HERE. AND SO PART OF THE PROBLEM AND I'VE SAID THIS A MILLION TIMES UP HERE IS THAT IT'S SO HARD TO GET TO THAT BLUFFS OF LIKE PRIORITY ZERO FOR ME IS GETTING THESE CONNECTIONS TO THE BLUFFS DONE AND TO ME THAT'S JUST SO CRITICAL TO HEALTH OF WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH HERE AND SO BUT YEAH CELEBRATE HITTING THE BLUFF AND LIKE I'M A LOT MORE INTERESTED IN MAKING IT EASIER TO GET DOWN TO THE BLUFF FROM ANYWHERE IN SOUTH LOOP THAN I AM THESE SORT OF POCKET PARKS ON THESE PASSES LAND THAT ARE HIGHLIGHTED IN PINK AND I DON'T WANT TO BE LIKE MR. ANTI-POOR HERE BUT LIKE I DON'T KNOW IF THE ADJOINING LANDS EAST OF THE MALL THEY'RE LIKE I DON'T KNOW IF I WANT TO FORMALLY RESERVE PART OF THAT LAND FOR A PARK THAT MAKES ME NERVOUS LIKE IN MY HEAD. THERE ARE SOME VERY INTERESTING THAT COULD GO ON THAT PIECE OF LAND THAT DON'T INCLUDE A PARK AND I WOULD WANT TO JEOPARDIZE FUTURE DEVELOPMENT LIKE I HATE IN THAT GIGANTIC PARKING LOT THERE BUT WE GOT TO RESERVE WE GOT TO BE A LITTLE CAREFUL AND I WOULD NOT WANT TO FORMALIZE SOMETHING THAT SAYS THERE MUST BE A PARK ON THIS LAND AND POTENTIALLY JEOPARDIZE FUTURE DEVELOPMENT COMMISSIONER CURRIE THANKS CHAIR SORRY ONE LAST COMMENT TRAILS THE PARK SPACE ALL THE NATURAL ASPECTS THAT STUFF THAT DOES NOT REQUIRE MARKET FORCES LIKE DOESN'T REQUIRE MARKET DEMAND INVESTMENT AND ALL THAT SORT OF THING. WE JUST HAVE YOU JUST HAVE TO CREATE I THINK CREATE THE TRAILS AND MAKE IT SOMETHING THAT'S THAT'S I MEAN IT IS A SOMEWHAT CENTRAL LOCATION TO THE TO THE METRO AREA BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT THE 494 BRIDGE AND YOU'VE GOT THESE HIGHWAY FIVE BRIDGE THAT GO ACROSS TO THE EAST METRO. SO I THINK JUST MAKING THAT CONNECTION IS A GREAT WAY TO GET SOME MOMENTUM THERE. COMMISSIONER MCGOVERN I AGREE WITH BOTH THAT WE COULD ENHANCE THE BLUFF AREA TO CONNECT THE DOTS, MAKE THE TRAILS MORE VISIBLE MORE WALKABLE AND BRING IN PEOPLE THIS WAY I LIKE THE IDEA OF HAVING THE CONNECTION TO FORT AS I'VE TAKEN THAT PATH TURNED AROUND AND WALKED BACK SOMETHING TO REALLY CONSIDER BEING THAT SNELLING IS A HISTORICAL PLACE AND IT WOULD ALSO INVITE PEOPLE THAT ARE AT FORT TO TAKE THAT TRAIL AND SEE WHAT BLOOMINGTON HAS TO OFFER. COMMISSIONER CURRIE SIR SIR THANKS TO YOU IN REALITY WE'RE REALLY IT'S REALLY NOT THAT FAR FROM MINNEHAHA FALLS, WHICH IS A HUGE CONGREGATION AREA IN THE SUMMER TIME WITH ROAD BIKERS AND PEOPLE JUST COMING TO THE FALLS SO I MEAN IT'S REALLY NOT THAT DIFFICULT TO GET FROM THE FALLS TO FORT SNELLING AND IF YOU CAN GET FROM FORT SNELLING DOWN THE SOUTH LOOP I MEAN THAT'S JUST A CONNECTION TO A LOT OF PEOPLE COMMISSIONER CAPTAIN AND THANK YOU MANAGER YOU COULD IMAGINE BEING SORT OF THE END POINT OF YOUR JOURNEY FOR THAT DAY, RIGHT? LIKE YOU'RE YOU'RE DOING ALL YOUR BIKING WHATEVER AND LIKE WELL AND IN BLOOMINGTON GET SOMETHING TO EAT AT THE RESTAURANT THE COFFEE SHOP, WHATEVER AND THEN WE'LL TURN AROUND AND GO BACK AND SO I JUST I WOULD LOVE TO GET THIS CONNECTED TO FORTUNATELY I DO HAVE ANOTHER ITEM IF WE'RE READY GO FOR IT. OKAY. I'VE SAID THIS BEFORE BUT AND I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S APPROPRIATE BECAUSE IT'S SUCH A SPECIFIC THING BUT I LOVE TO SEE A SIDEWALK ON THE WEST SIDE OF 34TH AVENUE NORTH OF AMERICAN BOULEVARD. THERE IS SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT WALK THAT SITE. SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PARK GO WITH THE ONE ON THE NORTHWEST CORNER OF THAT INTERSECTION. THEY WALK THE GRASSY BLUFF THERE WHERE THERE'S NO SIDEWALK TO GET HOLIDAY BECAUSE WE HAVE NO FOOD IN MY NEIGHBOR IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD AND SO TO GO TO HOLIDAY INSTEAD OF HAVING CROSS THE GIANT ROAD TO GET ON THE EAST SIDE OF 34TH AVENUE THEN NAVIGATE THAT GOOFY INTERSECTION AND HAVE TO CROSS THE ROAD AGAIN ONCE YOU'RE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF FOUR 1940 AT THE HOLIDAY THEY JUST CUT ACROSS A VERY COMPLICATED INTERCHANGE THAT IS REALLY DANGEROUS. AND SO I WOULD LOVE TO SEE US GET A SIDEWALK CONNECTION ON 34TH AVENUE NORTH AND THEN UNDER THE HIGHWAY TOWARDS THE AIRPORT . ANYTHING ELSE YOU'RE HOOK TO? YEAH. SO I THINK I JUST HAVE ONE OTHER THING AND SO I'M NOT A BIG SECRET THAT I LIVE IN SOUTH LOOP AND WEDNESDAYS IN MY BUILDING HAPPEN TO BE WINE WEDNESDAYS AND SO THERE IS A CONGREGATION OF PEOPLE IN MY BUILDING LAST NIGHT AND I THOUGHT WHAT BETTER CHANCE TO DO MY PUBLIC DUTY AND ASK SOME QUESTIONS? SO I BROUGHT DOWN MY BIG BINDER OF OF PLANS IN MY IPAD AND JUST TOOK A LITTLE INFORMAL POLL OF WHAT PEOPLE WERE OF WHAT PEOPLE WERE THINKING. AND SO ODDLY ENOUGH THE ONE THING THAT GOT THE MOST TRACTION BECAUSE I ASKED A LOT OF THE QUESTIONS WE'RE BEING ASKED TONIGHT JUST TO GET THE FLAVOR OF WHAT PEOPLE WANT DO YOU WANT TALL BUILDINGS? DO NOT WANT TALL BUILDINGS. DO YOU WANT PARKS? DO YOU NOT WANT PARKS. THE ONE THING THAT GOT THE MOST TRACTION AND IS ALL ANECDOTAL BUT PEOPLE WANTED MORE QUICK SERVICE RESTAURANTS. I WASN'T SURE I WOULD I WASN'T I WASN'T EXPECTING TO HEAR THAT BECAUSE I THINK EMPLOYEES IN CENTRAL STATION IN THIS SORT OF NEIGHBORHOOD USE IT HAVE ALWAYS BEEN VERY CHOOSY TO NOT SETTLE IF YOU WILL. SO I THINK WE COULD HAVE GOTTEN TO STARBUCKS TO FILL THAT COFFEE SPACE YEARS AGO BUT WE LET IT SIT EMPTY UNTIL WE GOT WHAT WE THOUGHT WAS THE RIGHT ONE AND BY WE I GUESS I MEAN THE DEVELOPER AND I'VE SAID IT MYSELF TONIGHT THAT WE SHOULD WAIT AND WAIT FOR THE RIGHT THING SO I AM I AM I TOO AM TAKING THAT AT TIMES BUT WHAT I HEARD VERY CLEARLY LAST WAS THERE'S NO FOOD AROUND HERE AND WOULDN'T SOMETHING LIKE TRIPLE A BE AMAZING? AND THAT WAS THE ONLY THING THAT I, I BROUGHT FORWARD TO THIS COLLECTION OF PEOPLE NIGHT THAT GUY UNIVERSALLY APPROVAL WAS A QUICK SERVICE RESTAURANT AND SO MAYBE MY MESSAGE TO DEVELOPER WHO OWNS A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF LAND IN THIS AREA ALONG WITH THE OTHER DEVELOPERS WHO OWN LAND IS LET'S MAYBE OPEN OUR MINDS LITTLE BIT AND AND AND TRY SOME SOMETHING A LITTLE LESS CUTESY THAN WHAT WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO DO DO RIGHT. ANY OTHER ITEMS FOR DISCUSSION ON THIS ONE? OKAY OKAY SURE OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE COMMISSION CHAIR? NO, THAT WAS ALL THE QUESTIONS HAD AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. REALLY APPRECIATE IT. A LOT OF GOOD FEEDBACK, A VERY WIDE RANGING DISCUSSION BUT IT WAS REALLY GOOD. THANK YOU SO MUCH. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. SECOND ITEM ON OUR AGENDA THIS EVENING IS THE PLANNING POLICY IN ISSUE UPDATE PLANNING MANAGER OH I APOLOGIZE FOR ITEM ONE. THAT ITEM IS A STUDY ITEM AT THE CITY COUNCIL MEETING ON MARCH 2025 ITEM TO STUDY ITEM PLANNING COMMISSION POLICY AND ISSUE UPDATE PLANNING MANAGER JOHNSON YOU HAVE THE UPDATE THANK YOU. CHAIR ALBRECHT SO I'LL JUST PROVIDE A QUICK LOOK AHEAD TO THE MEETINGS PLANNED IN MARCH OF 2025. SO MARCH SIX AGAIN CURRENTLY NO ITEMS IN THE DEVELOPMENT QUEUE. I DON'T BELIEVE ANY LONG RANGE ITEMS WILL BE COMING FORWARD SO THAT MEETING IS LIKELY TO BE CANCELED. I WILL SEND OUT CONFIRMATION OF THAT THE THURSDAY BEFORE THE MARCH SIX MEETING SO THAT'LL COME TO YOU NEXT THURSDAY. BUT I ANTICIPATE THAT MEETING IS GOING TO BE CANCELED MARCH 20TH. WE HAVE TWO APPLICATIONS IN THE QUEUE. ONE IS FROM ENCLAVE COMPANIES AT 3901 MINNESOTA DRIVE. SO THAT WOULD INVOLVE REZONING AND A PRELIMINARY DEVELOPMENT PLAN AND A FINAL DEVELOPMENT PLAN A 275 UNIT MIXED USE BUILDING WITH 5000 SQUARE FEET APPROXIMATELY OF COMMERCIAL SPACE I BELIEVE SEVEN STORIES TALL. AND SO THAT WILL BE A PUBLIC HEARING ON THAT ONE. THE SECOND APPLICATION WOULD BE THE PUBLIC HEARING FOR THE SIGN CODE LOOK BACK ORDINANCE YOU RECALL WE HAD THAT LENGTHY STUDY SESSION WHERE WE WENT THROUGH A OF DIFFERENT ENHANCEMENTS TO THAT SO WE'LL BRING THAT FORWARD FOR A PUBLIC HEARING AND AGAIN THAT'S THE MARCH 20TH MEETING ON THE MARCH 27TH MEETING WE ALSO HAVE TWO ITEMS PLANNED. ONE IS THE PUBLIC HEARING FOR THE CO-LIVING SRO ORDINANCE. IF YOU RECALL WE'VE HAD MULTIPLE STUDY SESSIONS ON THAT SO WE FINALLY HAVE A FINAL ORDINANCE OR A MORE ORDINANCE TO PRESENT TO YOU IN A PUBLIC HEARING SETTING THERE AND THEN A STUDY ITEM. SOME OF TONIGHT'S DISCUSSION RELATES THIS TOPIC AS WELL AND IT'S CERTAINLY A POPULAR TOPIC REAL ESTATE AND DEVELOPMENT AND PLANNING AND LAND USE CIRCLES AS OFFICE CONVERSIONS SO STAFF WILL PRESENT OUR INITIAL FINDINGS AS PART OF COMPLETING THAT STUDY IN STANFORD THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE AND HOW IT RELATES TO OUR CODE . SO THOSE ARE THE THREE MEETINGS LOOKING AHEAD AGAIN MARCH 6TH LIKELY TO BE CANCELED. THE OTHER TWO MEETINGS DO HAVE TWO ITEMS EACH CURRENTLY PLANNED FOR THOSE AGENDAS. ANY QUESTIONS OR ITEMS THAT THE COMMISSION WOULD TO DISCUSS? ALL RIGHT. SEEING NONE THAT WILL END OUR THURSDAY 20TH, 2025 MEETING OF THE BLOOMINGTON PLANNING COMMISSION. GOOD