to order just a reminder for everyone and also to our residents who are watching us mm-hmm our work sessions are very informal and we go directly to our agenda and the first item on our agenda is the AE to s communications update this is our branding and marketing initiative and presenting this evening is Andrea Bo and Nicole das Ted and skip I believe you're teeing it up for us you did a fine job mayor we're gonna just move forward we're just going to move on and and everybody has met Andrea and Nicole and so this is not the first time that you've before us I think it's your third or fourth and so welcome back ladies I think you've been very busy because we've had a lot of updates so the stage is yours thank you Mary good evening I am here to touch base on the wrap-up of the discovery period of the project and so I'll just go through what we've accomplished thus far and the next steps we're gonna be looking at in the next few weeks or so okay so if you'll remember the discovery period included the communications audit and then it also included all the research so the digital survey the in-person I guess boards that we did a tile of Burnsville week the party on the plaza getting input from the community in a couple different ways some the partner meeting and some of those other things so it was really gathering the data and the communications out it was the first part of this so we set forth with the city three goals as we looked at reviewing their communications we looked at it from the standpoint of owned media earned media and paid media and so your owned media is your website your social media all your print materials those things you produce as a media center yourself as a city the earned media is the news releases that you'll put forth the Today Show things you know those type of things that were you get press for so you've earned that media and then paid media would be the advertising the promotion sponsorships those things that you paid for so we just went through it in those those categories and you'll see on this slide we just have a couple points on each one we really felt overall the city did a great job at producing timely content and getting it out to your citizens really in a fast efficient manner they've I just can't say enough good things about your communications departments so the materials that they produce are great what we saw in because they produce so much content is making sure that you reuse that content not just taking the time to do it once but taking that material and using it in several different areas and media's so that you get the most play out of it right so those are just some of the tips that we gave the opportunity to use hash tags on your social media making sure that you use Beeville or whatever it happens to be the brand that is developed through this process making sure you always use those hashtags and create that consistency in the earned media it was looking at some of the awards possible awards that you could pursue in the future you've you've earned quite a few already but what are some of the recent smarty and your staff nice great awards this year yeah great awards how can we leverage those awards what other awards can we pursue to elevate the city and the perception of the city looking at some of those and then the paid media you know that the budget for paid media is smaller and so what's going to produce the most bang for the buck and the paid media and there wasn't a lot of paid media this year but as we roll out the brand and the mark tactics for the marketing plan though will be some more paid media the communications audit this is just kind of diving into some of the things that we looked at I looked at the analytics we really found that you had a lot of great engagement and followers on all your social media channels talked about ways to increase the audience when you looked at those analytics that you see increases from last year yes they're steady increases you're aware on Facebook and Twitter and yes YouTube yeah we're not on insta yet Marty not yet so we just went through those different you know we noticed and I'm probably gonna jump in ahead of myself too as when we did the digital survey we got some feedback on what people look at from the city where do they get their information and that's kind of a slide coming up this is a little bit about the website what do people visit most where are they going to what they search for we looked at those different things we talked about adding the translate features upfront and then also tracking the translate feature so if people hit translate to a different language what are the languages that are being most translated to so that you can take that information and apply it to different owned media so if you're going to broadcast something on your digital boards okay what's the next language you know what are the different languages thinking about translating that sort of thing okay this is going into the digital survey respondents and this is a little bit about the demographics of the survey respondents you'll see that it was the majority was female which is not surprising because this was a digital survey that was mostly pushed out through social media if you look back at you Facebook followers the majority are female and and same with some of the other social media so that's not really surprising we had a nice look spread of the ages we didn't quite get as many of the 18 to 25 as we hope to but we did get a sliver of that and then the other age groups we had a nice spread among the different age groups and then resident versus non-resident we also had any split of that the majority of course were residents but we did get a nice chunk of non-residents as well so this is the one that I was referring to earlier this is really in from you know just great information for you to have where are people looking to get information from the city we asked directly you know where do you go to look while they go to the website mostly local TV local newspapers but it's really important to know that I think it was important that you update your website that is a me and area people go to look for information the bulletin newsletter you send out what 20,000 newsletters and so you're getting a readership of 12% that's a pretty decent readership from this sample group of course and then Facebook is the highest-rated social media again people use Facebook for news a new source as we looked at the results of the digital survey these are the results that we're going to use to build the brand so we wanted to see what do they love about Burnsville you know and we heard the parks the natural setting the location it's a great location it's we can get everywhere from here we're close to the city we're close to our work we're close to parks and amenities location was a big thing affordability especially for young people in the younger age groups 18 to 25 that 26 to 35 affordability was a big deal they're entering the housing market this was a great place to start the diversity among I would say the age groups of must have been 36 and up diversity was mentioned quite a bit as a positive they loved the opportunities that the diversity brought to the city and then interesting enough among all the age groups they felt the community was safe and friendly and welcoming so as part of this discovery period we also wanted to talk to people one-on-one and in groups and so we reached out to different groups of people to get their input these were just some of the comments that they had what is unique it mirrored a lot of the digital survey responses we got some of the challenges of Burnsville is the limited affordable housing obviously people are coming here to look for affordable housing and so having that stock available is important and then this was kind of a fun little thing that we did with a partner's group we called it operation branding Burnsville and it was basically an outline of a person and we go through all the census so what do you see when you see Burnsville how does it make you feel what do you love about it when you're talking about Burnsville what are the things that come out of your mouth and so we went through this process with the partners group and those are some of the things that came out of that discussion as well diversity was was a big discussion point the Partners Group felt it was such a positive for the community a great place for a family there was a lot of mention of parks and just areas for families to be together so that was some great information as well and then we also talked to a deca group high schoolers that burns Bohai and that was a really interesting group to talk to and learn some things from their perspective they also felt diversity was incredibly important they felt it was a strength of their school they enjoyed it so we talked about that they felt the again they felt the city was very welcoming and kind and friendly you know there's they were bothered by the negative perceptions that sometimes swirl around the city it bothered them because they really feel it's it's home and they have great pride in it so but we had some interesting discussions about that one of the things that we pulled out of it too is you know how where do you see things about the city you know how do you find out what's going on with the city and they're like well I don't know we have so many digital things coming at us that sometimes a billboard gets our attention more than a lawn sign more than anything you know you you assume as youth you're gonna reach out through social media and in digital platforms and they're like well we're kind of overwhelmed with digital platforms sometimes a sign is gets our attention more than anything so some of those nuggets came out of that conversation so and then the event boards talking to people at party on the plaza and back to the 80 is a lot of went through your background parks was repeated repeated repeated people love the greenery the natural setting the parks it was mm-hmm absolutely and then of course the third grade essay is they were great to read again with the parks and natural settings love that about it so we've taken all this data and there's a lot of it every bit of it and so what we do next is we do the 3p as we call it so we put it into people personality in place and so this is just a little snapshot of taking bits of data from the survey and and interviews that we've had but you can see that we start to really kind of itemize it so that we can start developing those themes and those themes come from the 3p is our team were on what we call connector words and those are words that emerge from our creative sessions that we're pulling from this data so people may have not said those words but together it creates that connector word that we can pull from it so that's what we're doing right now and we met with the city the project team earlier today and went through these three P's and how we're pulling them out and pulling together and talking about connector words and really forming those themes and this is the schedule that we're on I'm happy to say we're still on schedule so that's good we're rolling along and we are reducing the themes too if we've come up with I don't know they're maybe 20 or 25 themes that have emerged and we're going to reduce them down to 10 and then what we do is take them forth to different focus groups so we'll take them to different age groups and cross-sections of people - and then we'll narrow them down to three based on focus group response and then we'll bring them forth to the council any questions I liked what you did when you because this is your connector words yes that's the word yeah yeah yeah and so it's everything that you've talked about but that's really good I like that they think that we're a welcoming community because we talked about it and that it's friendly so yes Vince is there any consider I'm just kind of looking through the responses to the survey and obviously you're not gonna get everybody that's you know is there any consideration to some of the negatives that were yeah and actually it's interesting because we look at the negatives too in terms of when we're looking at a theme an example is when we've done last year two years ago where there was a merging theme of nobody is going to want to to this community because we're in the North Pole and it's cold and everybody hates it here and that is something that we took and said okay let's try to that's authentic to this place so let's try to change that a little bit and make it okay you know some of the negative things that we saw in this survey were more about you know there wasn't enough housing in stock there was too many apartments there was you know some people felt that there was a crime issue where other people overwhelmingly felt safe so you kind of have to balance those a little bit I'm like the high school deca students had said that was reiterated and some of the survey things where we feel like we get a bad rap for being low-income or people view us as low-income or something like you know of though of that nature and that's really important to also address in these themes a little bit too so we do take that into consideration but and I guess the one thing that's probably was so obvious on all of them and I'm skipping at me because it's so obvious because it was in the strategic plan but there was a lot of comments of we don't like the negative perception of the school district that was probably the primary one that was noted in the survey and I don't think that's a surprise to anybody you've already addressed it you've already called that out in the strategic plan and that's part of the marketing tactics of the marketing plan so to see that reiterated in the survey also said okay this is true we're on the right track what are what do we need to do about this we have these people over here that love these things here's the school district how can we change the message to make sure that we address all those what I found interesting in those negatives because there was a negative on diversity but there was also the strength on diverse so when you put all of that together then when you go down and say who answer these 80% of Burnsville and 80% of the people surveyed and spoken to a still Caucasian said a hi white population correct so you look at that and you say diversity is great or diversity is bad and that's how you balance it out because mm-hmm the the students were saying that that was an important there was a story in your background they talked about a student who moved away and he was in a school district that was homogeneous and he chose to come back because he missed the diversity correct yep so when you look through all of the data that you presented it was very interesting inches and to read some of the stories that you've included in that but I found it interesting that's Burnsville is still primarily highly Caucasian I'm really anxious to see what the census is going to do next year because ten years ago the census said that we're in 22% minority and 78 percent Caucasian so when you look at what you did in terms of your survey so I'm really anxious to see what the certain what the census is going to present to us right yeah and it still says we're a welcoming community any other questions comments I think you guys are doing a fabulous job thank you thank you because she understood that you know we compete for business and residences like every other city and she just she just thought it was great we're doing that and she also liked the fact we're working with the school district that we're all coming together to kind of change perceptions because she has kids in the district and she thinks that does a great job for them and and a lot of that perception is not founded it's just that there's other issues going on there then because the district itself does a great job it does a great job and it's a matter of getting the word out right mm-hmm and spreading that message and making sure that everybody understands what a great job they're doing because they have someone everywhere are you tired or people blaming the district for the troubles because it's not always the district any other comments feedback thank you so much and thank you for a very thorough job and also the information that you give us background material was great great thank you thank you okay we'll see you next time on your timeline here August yes thank you okay the next item on the agenda is the review of our city animal ordinance and presenting this evening is our chief Tanya Schwartz and our a police service manager Lin lucky welcome lady yeah thank you very much mayor council so we have some information to share on animal licensing and some pros and cons of the licensing having a animal license or not and some options for the council to consider and when web PR services manager for the police department is going to share some information with you she manages the contracts and is very familiar with the licensing and and then we will answer any questions that you guys have thank you thanks madam mayor and councilmembers at the direction of council we reached out to 28 other jurisdictions and received responses from 26 so we felt like we got a really good piece Burnsville as you know currently requires biennial licenses for dogs cats ferrets and chickens and first and second year fees second year fees are half as much as the first year fees for the dogs cats and ferrets and then the chickens are fifty two per year so the seven agencies listed here currently do not require licensing and as you can see some of them have not been licensing for quite a while now so they responded that they've received positive feedback from citizens it saves staff time in managing the licenses the one con was they sometimes have a little more difficulty reuniting animals with their owners if they're picked up five agencies that we heard back from offer lifetime licenses and again they've been doing that for a few years same positive feedback from citizens saves time and money they did mention the loss of revenue as being a negative as well as a lack of getting up to date rabies vaccination information the remaining 14 cities are very similar burns that layout for a one or two year license license fees ranging from ten to fifty dollars sorry this is a little hard to see but this is a quick snapshot of the number of licenses that have been issued over the last five years city revenue animal control revenue for licensed sales animal control revenue for unlicensed penalty fees revenue for residential kennel licenses so if someone has four or five dogs they excuse me it requires them to have a residential kennel license the number of dogs and cats impounded and reclaimed and then the number of bite reports that we take annually so the options for council will consider is keep the ordinance as it is amend the ordinance to require a lifetime license for all of the animals amend the ordinance to offer a lifetime license or a one or two year option which is what some of the cities do and the ordinance to eliminate eliminate licensing or amend the ordinance to eliminate licensing of some animals and require it for chickens which is what we saw in some of the agencies as well other considerations if you offer a lifetime license would there be a grace period for a refund should a resident move out of the city or their animal would die loss of run a revenue to animal control vendor they currently receive all of the revenue for licenses with the exception of the first year the license the city received six dollars and the second year the city receives three dollars and then and that's processing cost yes yeah yeah and then if the council likes to eliminate licensing would you maintain the requirement for the residential kennel license our current Animal Control agreement is through the end of this year it calls for automatic as extensions if we're happy with the service they provide and they may make may proposed changes to the rates 90 days prior to the anniversary date of the contract that's it questions yeah Dan on the residential kennel license what are they what are they doing there's a doggy City hoses or raising dogs on the residential no it's just typically what residents who play so you can't have residential kennels and our one areas wasn't that in our awareness at one time yeah it's right r1 yeah Arwen a is an exception yes because our one a is is that our rural area yeah that's that's one to two acre side no normal neighborhood you get three dogs that's it no you can't have four or five but if you do then you need the resident to change that I remember that discussion about I remember we just three we changed it at the same time licenses for chickening check it licenses because when we changed it but I didn't know one went to four or five I thought we only we still have three is it three without the kennel wing licensing and then the four or five would you have a kennel license in my neighborhood in an r1 yeah you can have a you can have a residential kennel license again yes so I can have five dogs in my neighborhood with there as long as you have a residential I have misunderstanding this ordinance since we had the chicken discussion yeah so the thing ya know one of the things that I think as we have this discussion with dogs and cats and and ferrets let's make sure that that's on one side the other because just recently we had a lot of complaints about a neighborhood with the chickens well chickens we have oh there's a neighborhood so I saw all of those complaints you probably didn't but they do have got like chickens so they don't complain well there was what over was over ten chickens and a rooster and it created such a stench Jenny isn't it we have an ordinance against roosters yeah well yeah and they had a and it caused a lot of issues with this neighborhood yeah so I don't know and maybe there are some stories that and that's real recent was this last month when we received all of those complaints madam mayor members of the council that is an ongoing enforcement issue and the complaint is approximately 100 chickens and at least three roosters and some goats in Southwest Burnsville so that's a ongoing code enforcement case yeah that's all out of control and and I can tell you that then for that the neighborhood is not very happy and the stench well they're operating a farm there yeah yeah is unbelievable so all right Cara and I remember when we had this on round tape yeah I think if I remember correctly the consensus that we came to was dog cats and ferrets would no longer have a licence chickens would still have a license that's how I remember it being left yeah and then we were all like okay that we can live with who's that when you first brought this yes and and as staff to bring back more information so this is the full conferences but yeah there was so what are you all saying are you okay with no licensing of dogs and cats and ferrets and ferrets but we have to put a limit on chickens the kennel license I'm good with keeping intact so you don't have a hundred dogs in someone's neighborhood but okay so that's one of the things that the ordinance only calls for how many dogs well it's three but I'm being correcting and it's three okay Michelle you could have up to three if you have four or five you need a residential kennel license oh that's right that's right you don't want it yeah no this is a kennel can okay okay so yeah so it's three if you don't have a kennel license well I just remember what was two when we started the conversation and I remember now it's kennel you have to get a kennel license so members of the council's yes Dan yeah well one of the things and thank you very much for the background this is was very informative and more of a deeper discussion than we had the last time because we've got a lot more research in front of us but the one point about the licensing program was that when a dog is loose mm-hmm you have a tag so you have the ability to contact the owner actually as a beneficiary of that process a couple of times when dog got out some years ago you know people called the number on the tag and we're at minus that ID tag I mean the licensing sort of requires that people can do that at the pet store on their own and maybe most do so there is a mechanism to replace that do we have my question is though do we have any idea how many of all the estimated dogs cats and ferrets in the city are being run through the license and maybe what percentage aren't even which I thought was kind of the basis for your request is like we don't have much adoption of the the process of licensing and so why are we forcing it if maybe majority weren't even doing it and yet we weren't enforcing and going around finding cats dogs and ferrets that didn't have a license so I think we have better use of law enforcement I'm you know it's really interesting to look at the number of licensing a straight man 28 995 in 2018 and I'm certain that there are more than that dogs and dogs and cats and ferrets in our city a small portion but nobody really knows for sure we could estimate maybe 10 to 20 percent at best are getting licensed because I can imagine we probably have far more than just 995 total cats dogs and ferrets in the city and I think responsible pet owners they take care of their pets they they chip them they put tags I mean they do that the irresponsible ones I don't care how many license that we want to put on it they're never gonna follow it I'm not gonna buy it and they're not gonna do it that doesn't really help us you know and if you go to the Petco's or the Camp Bow Wow's of the world and that you know be shots up-to-date you don't use their services they won't even let you in the door so the community itself myself police's a whole lot of this yeah keeping Arabia days yeah I couldn't follow a staff recommendation that licensing requirements be consistent for dogs cats ferrets and chicken so it's sort of a all for one or one for all if we're gonna do it for one we need to do fro yeah are you open to just chicken licensing the chickens and Jenny would love that because we have right now about eight current licenses but they're never I mean outside of this one complaint we really don't get any complaints about I remember when we talked about it and the whole city was gonna have chickens in their backyards I mean people that have had them have not renewed their licences and no longer have them so it seems like they kind of maybe run their course yeah they kind of do I've watched them in my neighborhoods where they kind of come and go yeah Cara you know with it with the staff recommendation of have it be consistent I'm fine with that I'm fine to have it be consistent especially now hearing that there's eight chicken licenses like in all of Burnsville there's there's eight chicken licenses and the problem issue we have isn't that they don't have a license it's that they're running a farm yeah yeah that's that's the issue mm-hmm is they're running a commercial enterprise in it to their neighbors sure so so it's not a licensing issue that's a which we have a quantity in our ordinance three dogs and or three chickens or whatever it is four five no roosters or as many if you have this additional like nursing so yeah I'm good with that too so what I'm hearing is no no cost for license so like noise but we want to make sure that we manage the number of animals per household right yeah my question was going to be our business a public safety issue and it my recommendation it says it has a little impact on public safety so then I guess I go to if we did maintain a license and just made it free would that be a cost and does that even make sense and quite honestly Animal Control does the majority of that work we sell some licenses out of the police department but it doesn't have a huge impact on the police department so if you automated it like the solicitors or the overnight parking type thing or you go online and do it yourself through an automated process I guess I was thinking along those terms but if it doesn't impact Public Safety whether we do it or not then I guess it's kind of a moot point okay so I would agree with the consensus here okay so let's go Michelle has a question here because we have to say number then so three animals per household score four of you gonna have a kennel the over three dog license would stay put this is the one two three yes you know pet not business intent or mass doesn't come on newborn puppies that are gonna eventually go away though okay it's in the code yep okay so I think we're okay just removing the license right so no cost but the numbers are intact no license no license cost right and no license requirement and yeah requirement but the number is intact and we still won't know anyway because unless somebody complaints just like the neighborhood that complaints about the chickens because I look at those numbers when I first read the background it likes it stayed the same up to 2017 and I'm thinking and then it jumped in 2018 and I'm thinking you know there are more cats and more dogs and what ferrets in the city that number pet owners are more likely to reclaim their dogs in their camp okay boys reclaim dogs cats reclaim owners okay okay lyndah's is clear then okay I mean really you're just eliminating the license and the cost would all we're doing is making sure that the number is the same so it's not we all have to live in harmony you know and if you have too many pets in one home it's going to cause a hardship for your neighbor I mean it's just like anything else then it comes back to police because then you have to go back and and try and re-establish the harmony in that neighborhood but yeah we're gonna have to find a way of getting that done so Dan I I think this was a good movie thanks to councilmember Schultz for bringing it up this is gonna be good government no cost no license requirement less ordinance less government invention into your private pets and less hassle for staff for well nominal amount of licensing revenue that is it's it's a non-issue okay all right are we all clear I think so this time okay you do understand don't you do okay staff will bring back an ordinance to be adopted on a consent agenda is that okay all right thank you so much chief thank you the next item on the agenda is the discussion on our CDBG home rehab program and Jenny you're going to tee it up and also introduce our guests it's good to see nice to see you Tony here so Jenny thank you madam mayor members of the council we have with us tonight from the Dakota County CDA we have 20 schertler the executive director and then we have assistant Community Development Director Maggie dykes as you guys know these oh I'm gonna need your help Tony hit the button on the right please let her drive she's better driving tonight this is a follow-up discussion that we've been having for the last several months on some opportunities to pursue some additional housing resources or funds for those that may need it in our community and our last discussion your goals were to look at an existing program that we have - for efficiencies and doing doing more and we have a desire to partner with the CDA they are a long-standing housing partner we call them our housing department and Community Development so just a brief overview of our involvement the best program that aligns with with what the CDA is doing now and what you want to do would be the CDBG rehab program we currently allocated about half of our CDBG funds to that - the cd8 who oversees the administration of that for us CDA also puts some additional dollars into that program and they can answer your questions and there's a lot of information in the background but we're going to try to provide an overview tonight Burnsville is one of the higher I believe we were the highest user of this program in the county we have a waiting list so use those dollars in South st. Paul because when I read it I saw that we were seven households that we correct Thank You Matt out here 18 and so there is demand for use in Burnsville so if you're looking to do more there is a demand here that need that could be met here however with federal dollars there's a lot of rules and regulations right so there's a lot of nuances that our two organizations would have to work out certainly I just listed some of them there there's more in the background but if if you are generally okay with expanding the use of this program with our own dollars then we can work out a lot of those I think going forward so and then what that we'll turn it over to Tony and Maggie to talk about the program and mayor councilmembers I just wanted to before I hand it off to Maggie on the detail sort of on a higher level so as we just approved our budget for 2020 so our fiscal years is July to June and there are two sources of funds as Jenny talked about that feed this program CDBG it's it's a good CDBG program because it's familiar spending patterns for the federal government so we like this program because we get we have a shelf life on CDBG we have to spend that money down if there's program income we have to spend that money down so we're very sensitive to make sure that we have effective programs to push those dollars out but we have also contributed our levy through the hope program so part of the CDA levy is used in this single-family rehab program and there are different cities that have more demand for it than others primarily because of the age of the housing Zac please explain the hope the hope money is as levy so as you know this the Community Development Agency levies about approximately eight million dollars a year in property tax levy Dakota countywide 5.6 million of that is paid pays for the debt service on the senior housing program so there's 29 units 29 developments Valley Ridge is one here in Burnsville 29 developments of senior housing about 1700 units of housing and then then we do the Rigg program which is redevelopment incentive grant program comes from that levy as well and then some smaller Boutique programs open to business so we have some of the other economic development activities in there so these dollars are competitive CDBG is you know use half of your CDBG allocation for other programs and so is levy hope and so one of these efforts that I like to keep in mind and I just talked to Commissioner workman Commissioner Slavic and commissioner Atkins earlier this morning about this conversation is if these are effective programs and they have a constituency we want to remind everybody to keep funding those because they are utilized in the community and they're they're popular we want to make sure that that that we keep doing programs that we like to do so with that I we have made some changes this year with our board and I want to let Maggie walk through that program the benefit of this program is its it regenerates it does there are loans and so they do come back and we're able to deploy more public purpose with those dollars as they come back absolutely so I'll take your prepare thank you madam mayor council members good to see you as well so the home improvement loan program as Tony said it's designed to assist low and moderate income homeowners it's designed for housing rehab projects and the purpose is to maintain both the housing stock as well as to assist low and moderate income homeowners into in Dakota County so it isn't just one purpose it's you know we've got a couple of different things we're trying to do with it the program started in the early 1980s and currently our program is a zero percent deferred loan to qualified low and moderate income homeowners the loan is payable when the homeowner either moves out no longer occupies the home they were using it for as a rental property or the property is refinanced the term of the loan is 30 years so we do put a 30-year mortgage on the property and the loan is up to 35 years it does have to be paid back so I want to emphasize that that's where Tony's talking about the program income those loan dollars come back in CDBG funds have to be recycled per federal requirements we have to use those program income dollars before we even use your entitlement dollars so depending on what kind of year it is the last few years has been a really hot residential market and so we've gotten a lot of back so we haven't always touched entitlement dollars in some cities that's not necessarily the case in Burnsville in terms of applicants they do have to be residents of Dakota County these are the federal requirements they do have to be income eligible and that's less at or less than 80 percent AMI and in 2018 a two-person household was fifty seven five and four person household was seventy one nine those have gone up a little bit that 2019 income just came out so we'll be those are just now required for our own local best practices that you can see a list up there so credit score greater than 580 home equity has to equal 110% debt to value assets are other than home limited so again we're really trying to focus on that low moderate income homeowner in terms of the impacts of the program we've put over eight million dollars into the rehab program between 2013 2017 there's a couple of different ways we track this both in loans closed and projects completed we closed on 399 loans and completed three hundred and eighty-nine projects you'll see that the bulk of work is done in Burnsville South st. Paul Egan in Burke of Heights in West st. Paul and that's because of the age of the housing stock as well as the number of eligible homeowners within those cities we've absorbed the South st. Paul program in 2013 so that used to be a South st. Paul at their own HRA and that's part of the voucher program and the absorption of those programs yeah I was also noticing that in Burnsville 71 close 71 completed and when you it's the only one where the numbers are just this is how much and so in burns though the demand is the demand and we had a shoe issue with demand in Burnsville I want to make that very clear now sometimes as we get into this you'll see changes in terms of the number of loans that are completed in a year I'll explain what's happening generally in the market and why we're seeing less of that average home owner it's it's a you know some of them a homeowner profile two point six people in a house average age it's a little bit older in Russell County so 51 years old the income is 39,000 and the average age of the home was built in 1965 so again this is an older housing stock these are homeowners that are limited means and these are the folks that were really trying to assist in terms of the types of households it's pretty evenly distributed between two income or two people single parent with with a couple of kids elderly and those folks the nine percent other that includes parents with adult children's double income no kids adults with elderly parents basically anything that doesn't fit in the other categories the average lawn this was we pulled this together for from 2017 data we have cents upped the loan limit from 25,000 to 35,000 so that average loan amount and this is all in Dakota County this is all in Dakota County this is not just burns real estate all across the county and again because we are a countywide program we really look at the stats over the county program income limits again the most of our folks fall in that 50 to 60% ami so you can see up on the chart who it is we're really targeting a two and three person household those are folks that are again pretty limited or moderate means eligible rehab projects we really focus on health and safety first that's a federal requirement that's what we're really looking for till those items that are listed and they're in a bold type those are the projects that's our most you know typical for what we do so your HVAC your roofing your siding windows those kinds of things some pictures of some projects that we've done again you can see roofing bathroom the the project on my right removed a tub made it a DA accessible so for an elderly homeowner somebody that could stay in their home for a longer period of time those are the types of projects that we do again siding roofing windows you know very typical almost 90 to 95 percent of what we do is pretty basic stuff we have a default rate of about 5% and that's calculated over a life of our program so we get we get payoffs we get really good you know the payoff rate is great so our current waiting list it up here it says 66 households that's grown to 75 households so we have it you know we have it to begin there is there is no shortage yeah Dan ask your question on your default right how do you have a default radius yeah it's I mayor council member its that was not any super to come up with because it because we don't have a monthly payment we we go through our files and we have we we do check occupancy so you know if somebody has moved out they've not somebody goes into foreclosure something along those lines the mayor council members it we have talked so these favorable terms as you know a deferred loan due on sale pay basically or 30 years we have looked at servicing these loans if we wanted to try and squeeze either a lower interest rate or something out of it but the back office costs of that we have to keep a track of we're looking at it it's possibility that we do that to be a little more active but it requires sort of a loan servicing division then then we're gonna have to we have to put that in there but it is something that we consider every once in a while to see if we can stretch this even further so if we can get it's a favorable program now and we were wondering if we could price it a little higher but then we incorporate a little more administrative on the back so we're always balancing those two components Dan there's a quick follow up I know if you if I miss this earlier but what is I know the national average should probably mister real estate would know this years ago was about seven and a half years is the average time a person stayed home what are you finding in this program how long are the homes after this process has gone through before they sell it and the loan is paid back we have a payoff it it depends I want to say it's between 11 and 15 years so generally we're getting it way back about halfway through the long term these are folks that stay in the house a little bit longer run into cases where an elderly person again needs some assistance or they've been in the home for a while and and they'd like to stay in a little bit longer or maybe they they may need to sell and so that's that happens quite a bit to Marion Council members we in the past II on this program sometimes is targeted for neighborhoods that are starting to wear a tear a little bit but a lot of times you get in there and you priced right and you want to do the curb appeal but they need life and safety they really need a furnace and so you know you want to manage how you push this out if you're trying to create a sensation that we're investing in this community again where make upgrading the housing stock because this neighborhood is a little bit in transition so it's effective in those kind of push programs but you have the limits that part of the reason you've increased the limit to 35,000 is can we do more with that get a more robust but it's gonna read it's gonna shrink the numbers unless we put more money in it please maintain the house sorry things have come to mind this owner-occupied only correct yes partly wellif occasions right that is correct and then if I could touch on a point you made earlier about the credit rating how is that federally controlled it's not it's a it's our local best practice and we've bounced around there and and when you are serving a population that that is a more limited income level it can be tougher for folks to reach that higher credit rating so we have determined that that 580 is really the bare minimum and and if folks are below that and we do certainly to get do it get applications from those who are lower than though we are unable to serve them I bring it up because a resident came to me not long ago and I brought it to city manager lease attention they income was down from two to one because of a health issue they've lived in home a long time they actually had a significant amount of equity but because of the impact of those health bills on their personal credit rating they fell below the 580 so when you look at just one of the many underwriting factors there were significant offsets with the equity in the home etc etc that this program would have served somebody in my opinion was exactly why this kind of program exists it's not just about the working poor it can be people who weren't poor who can become poor as a result of health issues and loss of income so now they are the working poor and yet they want to maintain their home and be so for me the the I was struggling with why wasn't the equity in the home looked at as an offset to a and especially if there's a historical high credit rating and then it dips and those factors you know this would have been a sure of a bet which they all are for the most part except for the 4.9 that foreclosure and other things for this program to help this person and yet that 580 knocked him out and you know they're it's like that didn't make sense right to them or to me it's quite frankly because and maybe it's because they had such a huge amount of equity in the house but they couldn't access the equity through a HELOC because of their credit rating with a traditional bank so isn't this program meant to fill in yeah we're a traditional bank can't provide the financing their cows Councilmember that's an excellent point and it is really should be a risk program because exactly as you say it's it's it's a grant program that we're really recycling itself to the extent that we've got folks in hardship well we need what we need to do on that is sort of track that so that we have some benchmark we can go back to our board and collectively decide as communica obviously people you know it's tax dollars you get the sensitivity how much risk can you take but that's exactly what this program should do is be that kind of risk because I think everything else you said isn't absolutely dead on it's pretty confident and candidly if it doesn't come back it's grant it's a CDBG grant program so it's entitled funds we need is collecting that data so that we can go back to the board and said we want to relax some of these standards because this is what we're seeing with healthcare crisis or anything else and collectively make a decision that we're all comfortable because I think most people would say that fact scenario you just gave is a pretty safe bet yeah absolutely yeah it's you know oops they they're not 580 they're 565 right so they're thrown out whoa wait a minute they've got these other factors as part of their underwriting portfolio which is pretty much what banks and even a lending institutions they look at all the factors right right not just oops sorry your income is 10 bucks below the minimum so you're out oh wait I gotta this huge annuity and I've got all these other assets etc that like Marik mare counts and commits council member that's we don't have a bank like underwriting system where we are and so we tend to be you're not I don't mean that in a pejorative way policy limits as opposed to creative risk-taking with the bank's resources and so we sort of go on these anecdotes and go back and say yeah you know what if that's a local control thing that we're layering in here because we're trying to make people comfortable that we want to roll the program and it's creating an anomaly it's something that we would all agree you know what let's change that condition because this is a safe bet we just don't have candidly we don't have underwriting staff at the CDA to do these on a case-by-case those people are really in our single family or in our multifamily tax credit programs and and so we don't have we've we've had this internal conversation how elastic can we get how comfortable can our policy board be to allow some professional judgment in there to do exactly what you said right and some of this at the mayor council it's a function of being a governmental entity and dealing with government funds right we're we're one we all want to be good stewards of taxpayer dollars and we work very hard to do that understanding that you know there are times when we won't you know some people will not be able to be served even no matter how hard we try you know just case in point thinking of some of the voucher programs you know if people are 15 $20 over some of those income limits they may lose their benefits and and does it always make sense from that perspective maybe not always but you there are lines right I'm it's just simply a question of you know not not thinking of things as a as a bureaucrat but sometimes there there are lines that we we draw simply because we act as a governmental entity not necessarily a private entity and it makes a difference the other thing to recall is that this we don't bring these loans to the board to approve each one right and so there's a delegation of authority here and so it's that kind of thing that I would sit down with the board and say if you'd asked me as executive directors sit down with staff and make an exception as long as we account for it record it and say these are the facts that we did then we would have that sort of more robust look at this but right now we're you know we're a little bit tight aperture a little bit tight on some stuff and I would hate to have to go back to the board with an individual applicant say I'd like to waive these policy guidelines that's not the right way to do it either it's better done and we're gonna be coming back on this in a couple of months not to the board and some lessons learned and we can say if you're comfortable allowing us a staff to make those judgment calls we will certainly seek that I like the compassion and that Kara yes so it sounds like what you will be or may be asking for is an appeals process with a human element essentially mayor-council it to you know to get to provide some flexibility in underwriting yeah again operating as a governmental entity and and as you you know you just went through with your animal ordinance you know sometimes it's it's hard to you know draw that line it is when you are acting as a governmental entity it isn't always necessarily we have to keep in mind that there are more applicants than there are dollars yeah and so we have to be careful that there isn't somebody else in second place in line that feels like we've made an exception when they would otherwise fit so we have it same with our voucher program when there's only so many dollars and yet it's oversubscribed we have to be careful about when we make a change because the next person is gonna have a legitimate case that go on why did they get it and I didn't yeah I understood with all of that you know follow-up games this is a great program because it is self repurposing right I mean there is other than that minor amount do the exception not the rule 95% of the funds always come back into the pool and are redistributed to new people so it's it's a I think it's a fantastic program and hopefully we can make it better we and we our board needs to hear we these are we always reminding our board of programs that are popular and they need to fund because every year you know we put in some of our levy in there too to sort of work out the edges on the CDBG allocation throughout the county so we're gap-filling with some of those dollars yeah any other questions okay and you we're on the current waitlist yeah so again this there's a there's 75 households on the waitlist now currently so that's growing a bit and the waitlist is but is a function it's currently because we had such a hot real estate market over the last few years we have quite a bit of program income it is really more of a function of staff capacity at this point we have two housing rehab advisors to serve the entire county so it's not a lot of staff to to do what has to be done and these are complicated underwriting you know looking at a lot of different avenues and projects can take a long time at the moment you know it may be four to six months before we somebody comes off the waiting list sometimes a little bit longer and it can be four to six months before a con once we close on a loan but it can be four to six months before a contractor even gets out to someone's house to start work contractors are so very busy right now and so what you're seeing and what you will see when we've released the numbers to the cities and the number of loans that we've completed in this year they've gone down and is really a function of contractors just being so very busy so we are experiencing a little bit it's not that we're experiencing a slow down on work on our level it just looks like it is and so people will be a little bit worried about what's happening and why are people being served they are to the best of our ability but also because it's just taking contractors a long time to get out there and mayor and council members Maggie if you could the to housing advisors they they're not just loan officers they're helping the homeowner with vendor selection and yeah and so really what I learned when I got there is how much these guys spend time helping someone I doing contract and so there that's what's DIMP that's the demand on their time is helping them navigate that and that really is a huge value to folks who are not used to commercially bidding out projects or knowing really what the scope should be so that's the skill set that's invaluable that those guys bring and and candidly you know if we could get more of that and some of the philanthropic community say hey people just needs help navigating you know how do I better get a new toilet and bathroom in there okay did that's a good point on trust a new story not maybe in the last week were a homeowner hired a contractor to do a deck and paid him a down payment and some poor quality wouldn't pass inspection unfinished work and the person disappeared this program is offering some calls hey you know you know pre-vetted certified you know resources and contractors and this key person on staff that is providing that guidance so it's always going to be you know quality and in dependable work by contractors who will show up and not disappear when you know they're challenged so that's good okay Danny just curious do you work through the cap agency as well for for the rehab who do the mayor council member we do not work at agency we do for our weatherization program yeah but the rehab program is is contained within the seat okay so the weatherization goes through the car yeah they were we have we have a weatherization program but we with the cash one day they get the funding from this the CDA right yeah we Department of Commerce and written and Department of Energy provide resources for the weatherization for me yeah okay so I believe at this point Jenny I'll pass this back to you and I think you're gonna have your own discussion and you tell us how did you want to monitor input because right now half of our CDBG funds just to recap half of our CDBG funds funds this program for the residents of Burnsville and at this time eight have completed 71 at one time so I think in you have 71 over the person over the course yeah the last five and 7171 closed 71 completed so Jenny the total of the funds and and remember a council member we're still going the budget hasn't been approved at the federal government and it was cut again but Congress is true is moving to hold it at the point that the funding that it is now we are trying to increase that because it has been cut cut cut cut cut so what is our allocation right now Jenny is it three something or am i - hi - hi um the last estimate I have here is - 68 68 I was thinking - I was thinking three but I sigh - 78 it's 360 it madam yeah madam mayor council it's actually gone down for the 25th year 2019 which just started July 1st Dakota County did receive a cut in CDBG funds and so everybody was cut a little bit right now did Burnsville its 261,000 oh my god that is so bad you guys it just has been cut cut cut I mean in the last 15 years that's what it's been and let me just remind everyone this program the CDBG program was promulgated under Ford that's correct and in the 80s and the hope was under a so Ginny Ana mayor members of the council just continue to kick off our discussion and so because if we are going to fund this with our own dollars we have a little bit more flexibility and we can prioritize these dollars and this is coming off preliminary discussions that I've had with Tony and Maggie so we could offer this as a grant if you wanted to we don't have to get paid back we could do exactly what they're doing zero percent 30 years on we could target specific areas of the city if you want to look at Lowood mod census tracts something like that as a priority we could do that we could look at different it comes out about EDA funds yes is would be our source we could target specific households there's a need right now above 80 percent to 120 of ami the median income it's tough for those folks to get qualified but there's a demand there they make too much money to qualify for this program and not enough for a conventional loan so so we do have some options if you have some specific priorities related to that some of the nuances that we would have to work out in our agreement is who holds the funds these if these are City funds its preferred that we the city hold these that's preferred that we hold the mortgage on the funds that we would be funding the program and therefore the loans would be repaid to the city it's best that we have some kind of revolving fund we talked about the payback and so we need a long-term commitment for that for this program so it can be self funded a decade from now so the CDA you know it's not a good idea that we just do a program for a year or two and then we're done as long as the need is there we should commit to funding those dollars long term and as making Tony mentioned they've the capacity to do up to about five loans right now that would equate to a hundred and seventy-five thousand dollars approximately to be budgeted there's a small administrative cost that we would have to pay the CDA as part of our agreement for their time of course but that's the dollar amount we're talking about because of the timing to get things going if you wanted to do something in the 2020 budget I'm in the EDA budget we could budget about half of that amount because it'll take a while for things to get going before we have to spend those funds so well those are some of the details kind of behind the scenes as you think about the budget stuff going forward what the next steps are is if at your direction we'll continue our discussions to work out details if you want to proceed going down this road just know of course the CDA board would have to approve this agreement or partnership as you as you would to at the end of the day and then we'd have to commit to some kind of funding source for this what that could look like I think when we talked about at our budget meeting in June if we do I'll just throw this out there as an idea you know we talked about the franchise fees moving the facility's debt into franchise fees that would free up about $400,000 a year in your EDA budget to do something like this should you choose to do that without raising the levy and how will that impact our economic development initiatives and everything that we're working on towards economic development madam mayor members won't have any impact I would not say that madam mayor members of the council it depends on how you spend your budget on an annual basis there are other things that we could do for economic development as well Melanie that's the me part of the discussion is for the 2020 budget that will bring forward and get some direction because we certainly have enough needs for for the funds it's just how do we best allocate them so the questions I think we're looking for you from you for some direction as do you want any additional information or do you have any other questions for the CDA or myself and if you want us to proceed with with forming a partnership and funding additional dollars will be part of this our CDBG funds plus an addition from the seat from the our community our Economic Development Authority funds yes so right now the amount of money from CDBG that's going into this fund is how much roughly one hundred thirty thousand one hundred and thirty thousand and so we're funding eight homes with that one hundred and thirty or less now that it's been reduced for four homes so how many homes are we thinking because the nate'll Mehta mayor the most capacity that the CDA has is to do five loans a year with their two home advisors so it would not be more than five it would not be more than about 175 so right now I'll CDBG can fund four and so if we want to fund five then it comes out of the EDA correct five additional not a mayor five additional or or one addition good up to five more up to five more madam mayor councilmembers it could be up to five more again I would caveat ever a lot of that because you know as a program manager there are always a balancing act here we do have a timeliness requirement that's a federal requirement so CDBG funds would be our focus we would have to focus on that and we'd have to focus on that on a countywide basis and predicting program income is difficult how rigorous that CDBG fund report is to the federal government is it is and if we do not meet timeliness level as a county it threatens the entire CDBG program across the entire county so that that's where we we would just make I would caveat everything well we say we could potentially fit five within our workload it's possible some years we may not be able to do that we just may not be able to do that if we're trying to spend down CDBG dollars and we may be able to you know if there's a lot of programs that would be a total of nine low tential potentially up up to nine loans but just madam mayor councilmembers we also do supplement this with our hope funds so there are some CDA funds that do go into this as well as there's some program income so of any given year it will depend but yes roughly between 8 to 12 to 13 loans a year can be done in Burnsville a matter of madam mayor one of the things that is and I have not talked to Maggie about the details about how you would stage that but there is a concern that I have that we have all the cities in Dakota County some of them it may not be as high up already as it is in Burnsville or South st. Paul in those communities so to the extent that you have demand here the first thing I'd like to do in my mind is say okay can I shift can i satisfy their waiting list with the capacity that I currently have but I just haven't seen those numbers yet does that mean Apple Valley is the ultimate thing I could do is go back to the policymakers and say I need another FTE because the program is drawing in more yeah and it's got that support but before I ask for an FTE from my board I want to see what I can do with the demand that's there yet because we're already layering in levy dollars into the program globally well it is a good business decision you have to do that before you say you're going to take on more capacity right and so if you have a if you say if you that depends on how you ask the question Tony if I give you a hundred thirty-five thousand dollars what can you do with it or Tony I got nine people am i waiting list what's going to take to satisfy that and again part of this program is marketing and sales so the more popular becomes we have more demand coming in the door and we have to adjust so we don't we're little gelatinous right now trying to push here unfortunately right councilmember rocky Lee yes Dan well it's I think we're pointing out that the county certainly the state administers lots of programs where it is one-way money it's a grant it's a redistribution of tax dollars this is a program where there is only two FTEs administering a program that self funds it gets new dollars yeah grant dollars but it's also o95 yeah pay that one percent of the time the money is recycled I don't know how many programs exists that are bad so this is really a much better program from my perspective than many other programs for me in the list of four options it's sort of a toss-up between number two the city could offer the funds as a loan mimicking CDA's rebate program you know their interest deferred for 30 years funds would be expected to be paid back of course which goes back to the CDBG side you're still talking reference which goes back to my point I would be in favor of something where the city was always made whole and this program is a site for the cost of borrowing in a sense I mean you can think of it that way or number for the city would target households earning 80 to 120 I have a question why would it be 80 to 120 could it just be the 80 which is your program I thought madam mayor council you you could you could you could format this in a number of different ways the our program serves 80 percent and below yeah so if you were thinking about trying to capture a little bit of different part of the market the 80 to 120 was what we thought 120 percent am I is really though that's kind of the minimum to be a homeowner yeah really it's so it targets folks that are still have some need it they won't be quite in the same same needs for folks as that eighty percent below but they still will maybe not have as much cash available so this is the there that they're kind of in the gap they are they're not served by you and you're saying up to 120 of ami they're probably not served by the private market ear Inbetweeners that can but maybe there's a higher interest rate on their loan or maybe they're not necessarily the best for a home okay so am i that do not qualify for CDBG program the households that would qualify would be those earning between 75 and 120 thousand for four people so is that program also administered by you it would just be the guidance that we'd give you with this dollars ready to crack more the first one if we can so it's really we're picking the target audience we're just either we stay with the 80 and below or we say we'd like to this new money to go to the 80 to 120 Gabor's yeah and mayor council member we're in the CDBG right now you're an entitlement community we're really kind of your vendor that's right we're administering those dollars cuz we've got Maggie we've got the team of CDBG experts in-house so it's not really dissimilar to that if you want to fund another effort I would go back and say can we staff that you know what what do I need to do what are my admin costs I would prefer if the program were popular than I could spread that admin cost across all the cities so I go back to our board and say look for another FTE you can do another 50 loans right and so that's and in your collective conversation with my board is what's important about that because it's not I think it's also just a compliment for two FTEs doing this entire program in our county I know there's gotta be one of the most efficient government-run programs in existence because that's amazing that's a lot of loans a lot of hand-holding a lot of labor for young people incredible they do a terrific job and it is not easy yeah it's not easy pill it's quick yeah yeah they do a great job danji so I just want to kind of clarify what I'm hearing here so you would actually administer the program yeah we would be the mortgage holders on the program so the when the repayment finally came back on the portion that we contribute other than the CDBG funds that would come back to our EDA that's correct yeah and and and other advantages you don't have a shelf life spend out one of the challenges we have the reason we're doing hope is that when I have I'm trying to unwind program income that comes in from Burnsville yeah that I have to spend now first I statutorily I don't have to do that yeah but equitably our relationship with the cities are we're sort of segregating those and the federal government requires because we're an entitled city and you're administering that entitlement for us the federal government needs to see that we're spending that direct so I want to get this right as well so with the with our EDA money the payback would begin 10 to 15 years is that your estimate generally the money would be out for about 10 to 15 years but once we get the project going every year we'll have money coming back in VA for further potential get amerikanische money could see it it's possible that if you took a 30-year mortgage on a property the property it sits there for 30 years so it's possible it's not likely but it's possible we've actually thought of shortening it because the one of the challenges on this program is income predicting income yeah and so that makes it really difficult to know when she's got to spend down problem I get five properties satisfied alone and now I've got another hundred twenty five thousand I got to spend by June and so that's we may be able to solve if on average are coming in on eleven fifteen you know you get zero interest money for fifteen years a pretty good deal um and so we could below we could do it that way and I've thought I'm very deferential to the folks I don't wanna change their program too much but there's part of me that's thinking maybe that's a better way to it's like a fifteen year balloon roots right exactly danke why the gap option for me has a lot of Appeal because yeah there are needs being met by your program and none are addressing the gap folks who are just outside that and so that might be to me of an appealing target audience to try and put our money in up dude and I like the whole discussion of the payback I mean we may fund it over a series of years as it starts to come back in we do we have any sense as to when we've sort of reached the the Headroom of of demand where the funds available now regeneration order needs work because of the constant aging of households yeah and there's always if there's always gonna be new ones that come into play yeah okay especially in Burnsville but it helps you keeper or help keeps our homes maintained in the city which keeps all of our property values high as opposed to doing nothing and just hopefully absolutely and the circumstances that I alluded to in walking the city last fall any hearing from hormones that were pleading for some help as a city these are the properties aside from those that were rental these are the properties that they were talking about and now the you know to your point though it's not always exterior right it's not just the curb appeal it's also interior furnace water heater types of kitchen cooking types of things that could be where the money ends up needing to go first rather than improving the exterior look mayor and councilmember you know part of it you want to sort it sometimes I want keep a little arm's length on your regulatory side but your building permit development division knows who's pulling permits and what's going on out there yeah and so there's another way to push this out too which is and that's what we used to do in st. Paul was more of a regulatory side you know we had classifications of vacant properties and things we thought why can't we bring some of this to bear for Mable who's struggling with you know other issues going on in her house Vince any thoughts coming we would be the first city in Dakota County to implement the program like this with your look if you contributed local dollars I believe we contribute local dollars there I believe South st. Paul had a program a number of years ago mostly relying on CDBG and they may have put a little bit of some EDA HRA money into something like that I am not aware of anyone that it would do it to this extent where you would actually have a yeah it'll come out of they our EDA levy yeah kara you have any thoughts so my thoughts are so we we proactively go to people's homes and look for ordinance violations and find them and so I thought on that is if we're inflicting pain I can see us also being helpful in eradicating that pain another thought that I have is if we're gonna spend EDA levy funds and I know the council is looking at getting pretty aggressive with economic development but if we're going to spend ETA funds if I have my preference it would go to homeowners and it wouldn't wouldn't be more in the corporate welfare variety but also with that aggressiveness does that mean that will be increasing the EDA levy further than we had originally planned or increasing franchise fees further than we already planned is and that is is one discussion that would weighed heavily on how I look at this how does this fit in with how we're looking at our franchise fees how does this look in with how all of you are looking at spending the EDA levy yeah so and I'm hearing you says you need more information from staff if you're going to have this much how much is it going to be on the levy yes and so that's that's the when I'm listening and to everybody we need more information the idea that we help the people in the gap and making sure that our neighborhoods continue to be updated and that they're sustained and then we also preserve some of the affordable nests of those housing stock the thing is what does that mean if we're going to have a contribution that adds on to the CDBG entitlement funds that we have dance okay I'm interested in doing this I haven't changed my position but we have a lot on our plate and there's no reason for us to say well there's room for five siliceous notified you only have to throw a hundred and seventy five thousand out year one and Jenny's point it's gonna take a while to ramp up I'm comfortable putting two homes worth or seventy thousand up year one and and walking before we run with this in 2020 is just put enough for two two more other than on to add at the four that the CDBG for yes yes total of six yeah the CBG parts or they have this we're talking about the yeah so you know and I I would say let's start out year one with 70,000 or two loans worth yeah or whatever that dollar amount exactly is and and then reevaluate next year and maybe we just step it up a little by little because clearly from a financial planning standpoint we have a lot we're trying to absorb in the 2020 budget but in two or three years as a lot of our development hits the tax rolls we're gonna have a lot less pressure on the levy itself even with franchise fees factoring in potentially next year and so you know it just seems to be like starting out small and stepping it up slowly as a smarter plan financially for us and probably for the system itself and I agree I think we can step this up every year kind of look at different increases as we talk about it but I agree with Cara I mean we need some more information for a budgeting process and all that but I will make this statement that EDA is not just for business it's for the community in that that's homes as well and we we need to figure a way to get an allotment out of our EDA to help our homeowners homeowners if not as much as business as close as as much as business we spend hundreds of thousands of dollars a year trying to create business in this city we can we should be able to figure out a way to help help these homeowners get something done in this city as well three hundred percent well both both perspectives I agree and this is an opportunity to act upon that absolutely to do something for residences okay Vince so there's six other cities in the state that do this besides Saint Paul in Minneapolis I'd want to get as much I know we have quite a bit from our last discussion on this but I'd like to get as much information as I can from like Brooklyn Park Rapids Edina Minnetonka Plymouth in st. Louis Park and see if we can what their numbers are in their implementation this I've always looked at this as a CDA area not a city area because that's what we've always done with the exception of Minneapolis and st. Paul so I'm just at right now uncomfortable with thought of this but if we can get more information that would help Dan K I want to respond because I was in exactly where you are at today four years sitting on this council Jennie and probably remember and the mayor this to me was not a function of the city it was an economy and etc etc housing and that's where I've been housing is the function of the CEA and it's just it is maybe the the walking the city for the fourth time knocking on a lot of doors seeing and hearing and watching over the last 12 years the degradation of some of the housing and listening to the pleas of these homeowners helped my property value from dropping because of what's happening next door that the system as it exists through the CDA is overtaxed and needs some help their funding is reliant solely on CDBG and their Hope Fund and so maybe we're the circuit breaker to provide a little additional assistance but again I'll go back to the key it's recycled money it is we're gonna get made hold and that's that's probably the only reason why I'm in for a favor of this is the city will have these funds come back through over the years and self fund more new loans and I can't think of another program in all the years I've been involved in government that had that it's usually just like I said a one-way thing and I think that's what stopped me also here and being open minded to this particular deal so just explain where I've been for a long time and now where I'm at today I've changed my position but we found the right tool with a self-regenerating funding source that was the key don't lock it for me okay so what I'm hearing is that there is a desire for us to help and to maintain our property our homeowners property stock our our property stock in affordability and I hear two of our council members says step it up and so two perhaps two houses to add to the four that we have and that means something like a levy of $50,000 if we're gonna do two homes seventy I see max loan amounts of 25 from the CDA gone up to 35 okay so would we need 74 because if two came in at the max then there's a $2,000 but I'm also hearing it just to finish that we need some more information in terms of how much that love you is going to look like for us I think there's a desire to move forward with this but first let's understand how much this is going to cost us and what that ETA levy is going to be what does it look like because we have some other things that we're looking at and that has to do with our franchise fees and then we have this big levy to make sure that we continue to backfill let's not forget what we have before us so I agree we need more information because this is just probably an addition to the EDA levy Cara and also clarification this is not a one-time that's right dump of 74,000 because it takes ten years before it funds again so it would be ten years we'll be doing 74,000 just so everyone understands right what that is that's it's what we're really talking about seven hundred and forty thousand dollars yeah and but every year we're levying that so people so it's transparent in our our residents know that every year on the EDA levee let's clarify the financial yeah we're yeah that's we haven't gone through that budget process know that we may have an extra four hundred thousand that we can do something doesn't mean that you have to increase let's make sure we have all of the information because right now that's the amount that we have so what does that mean if we have to levy and if our staff tells us that we have four hundred thousand someplace that we can use then then I want to know that right absolutely yeah because the thing is we've got something in each one on the lobby right now to get to the max tax what was that he said a six six that's what I thought I I'm pretty scary about a lot of that so let's I need more information and in it yeah mapping it out would be I think like a visual visual map out of what it would look like not only would help us but would help our residents yeck sure this as well yeah so I think one of the things is that there is consensus to move forward but we're doing it in a cautious way until we get better information as we look at the budget and the levy for 2020 but I can't thank you both enough because I've been sitting here understanding CDBG and fighting at the federal level to make sure that we still get those entitlement funds but at the same time we have new council members who need to understand how CDBG works and how hope works in all of this and hope really has been used more for senior housing yeah and so that helps but and now if we're going to use some of our EDA funds to supplement so that we can have greater capacity to help our residents then we need to understand better buddy thank you Tony and Maggie for coming in and also thank you for all the work that you do because I know that what you do makes a difference in the lives of a lot of people a lot of folks in Burnsville and I know we have some challenges because a lot of our new rental facility owners have pulled out of the of the vouchers so those what people call section eight there's not that much in Burnsville anymore because the new owners of the apartment buildings have said they're out of that market they're doing market rate home so but thank you for everything that you do really appreciate the partnerships thank you okay the next item is the Local Option Sales Tax Melanie thank you madam mayor and council you have before you a discussion to talk about you know really what are the next is yeah I'm so sorry yeah can can we take like a five-minute break absolutely we will recess and take a 5-minute break in and we will reconvene okay you you you yeah it's on the air is it okay yeah thank you bana mayor and council members we have before you the discussion of the Local Option Sales Tax as you recall this has been an issue before you uh background information there's also a white paper that was prepared last year as the governance process was started at that time the council decided to kind of call pause on the process and say let's wait for the 2019 legislative session to proceed because there were a number of local option sales tax before the legislature there in fact there were 17 new or increased three of which were in the metro area which is highly unusual so there were three that were approved but the in addition to approving them the legislators will change the process by which Local Option Sales Tax can be approved by a local unit of government so because of that and because of council direction we wanted to come back and visit with you about what are your next steps for this issue continue the governance process put it on hold or do something entirely different so I'll stand happy to stand for any questions okay Kara and then I do have some questions so our state legislature pretty much killed this so for me it's moved it's moot because I I feel the same way simply because one of the things that they defined is that it has to be a capital project I'm in the same position it's it's it's sad to me that our state legislators still feel a need to diminish the role of local government by restricting us and pretty much everything we do and I know we're not always in agreement on a lot of stuff but just to take those options away from us to even have a discussion there's almost just not right wasn't pretty tight also yeah the way the other way they said and quite frankly if we had a capital project to look at maybe but nobody's really stepping up for any of that either so yeah I just I'll throw more gas on the fire that they just they made it a lot more difficult and so I don't know that there's much worth to invest any more energy in it potentially gets reversed another thing we discussed this morning at our cities is that they're putting franchise potentially franchise fees on the same chopping block yeah and that's the reason why we need to they can go and follow us in if we remember the discussion so we need to make sure we get that done now before the legislative session convenes in January because if we do it then we can be grandfathered in rather than no because remember what I know this the House members who have been working on this and I also saw them when I went to lunch at Chianti Grill and saw these two legislators having a nice conversation and so I talked to them about what they were conversing about and we need to work on getting our franchise thing to that also it's a hopefully some day our local legislators will have a little change of mine about local control again I'm happy to see that there are some metro cities that do have a local option that we're gonna actually be able to see how that impacted those cities so we can make good decisions on what we're gonna do and actually if you look at what they were asking for Elk River a consultant was simple it was very specific yeah I just want to see what the impact of a local option to their economy does because there's all this stuff out there that we're all the Bozell beer I don't believe that caris is moot I say Moo dancers Vince's food what about you date DK my position hasn't changed because I so Melanie really easy take it off them take it off your your plate none okay I'm against it just in case Jones we voted against it so okay the next item is to amend policy number one point zero one zero is that's to clarify the participation at public meetings Michelle during the all-day work session the council did have a discussion about whether we had a policy for participating in in a meeting when the council when a council member the mayor is absent so we did do some research on this aye sir III asked for feedback from 15 of our metro cities ten of which responded no city reported that they had a formal policy eight reported that it was rare but when it did have that but it was allowed when members were absent to have a whether indicate their support or have a comment read two cities responded that it had never come up so we did put together working with our city attorney a policy amendment for your consideration it also references the state law including some recent legislation and it also includes some housekeeping updates to reflect current practices of complying with the Open Meeting Law and public notifications it what do you all think it that the redline tells us Dan K so if I'm absent where I can get a Wi-Fi connection and Skype in am I allowed to participate in the meetings technically yes you can participate what we would need to do is notice where your location is going to be in that location would need to be public public and then we would need to be sitting in state requirements of ensuring that everybody in this location would be able to see and hear everything that you were contributing to the conversation know for instance if three of us were at a conference a conference in LMC conference and we really mean always have our meeting or healthy or an NLC and we had our iPads and everyone was noticed that three of us were there we in fact could conduct an official meeting if we met all those you know if I recall the statute correctly I believe that it is required that one member be present in the council chamber yes I would have to be here one member being the mayor or one member of the co could be one of four that are out on the road and one person here and we could still conduct the meeting about the meeting to order [Music] Kirra on that meeting notice doesn't need to be too so many days ahead it would have the same requirements as our is if we change the location of our council meeting we'd need the same notice requirement I think it's 48 hours okay so 48 hours ahead I'm at Starbucks when the packet goes out we would need to notice it well yeah with that or the other is that instead of facetiming in or any of that you could according to this as well is to write in and your thoughts and your vote on an item which could be read that could be read yeah so my question on that is our votes are also supposed to take in account if there's public comment and people are at the dais commenting in our vote and if we submit a vote ahead of time we're not able to include that the and if you are not participating by bison went through state law guidelines via Skype then you cannot vote okay [Music] comment or something like that does not indicate a vote thank you I'm sorry I did not read the last part of that line cannot vote you can write in to be read in your comments but not vote this we discussed at the ONC meeting I just want to add it it's not pertinent right now but the meaning location has to be published unless you're in remember unless you're in the military and it's not legally allowed to publish your location that is the only time that you're allowed to not publish the location it's not in this group but you know your future future councils it might be worth adding that in to mimick I think we just referenced that you follow the state law okay all right okay yes DK is that limit of number of times in a year was that just for the military exception or was I thought I would read somewhere was three it's there's a three period for anybody and everybody wears that just related to the military's non-disclosure of location I think in our policy we have three for everybody and how we've stated it I could double check the statute and see if it applies I know that it applies to the military exception I'm not sure if it applies to all other instances I suppose it's probably logical to put some limitation on it so a person isn't relocating to Florida temporarily for five months and okay what see we really add the the demand per se although we did cancel a meeting because of numerous the council members attending a an official event had we been in the position where there was a time-sensitive critical thing for us to vote on yeah this if we had once we get this in place we'll be able to employ this tool to meet that deadline and still be able to go to these events that we go as City Council members yes and the other thing is that this allows us to have interactive meetings but if you're going to be in a time zone that is not conducive to meeting the meeting to get on an interactive television then you don't do it I mean it's only if you want to that's what the policy says it's not that you have to I think it's a critical policy to put in place because there may be I mean you know historically when someone's missing or - I know there's just I I can't think of any reason not the end of this I can think of a lot of really good policy yes thank you man council member Keeley - your comment I think that the reason that this is put in place and to start with is because of some situations maybe like maybe somebody is out of town and they don't have a quorum or maybe like for instance I've been a statue in a situation before we're we're affected by a natural disaster and you cannot get a quorum and so we cannot even have like an emergency meeting because we don't have a quorum so I think that that was put in place to handle some of those situations if for instance we have something critical coming up and we know three of you're going to be out of town we can always schedule a special meeting when you're not out of town that's or so then we wouldn't have to require that so I think it is kind of a if there's some sort of an emergency situation or if like you said if somebody's long-term gone from the from there from the area well all good reasons this is to me this is forward-thinking in today's electronic age and I think this is appropriate and if this were to take place would each individual council member need to be in a separate room or could three people collectively sit in the lobby of a hotel yes and then Skype it sitting next to each other yeah I think that as long as it's been noticed yeah she'll notice it I don't yeah that that wouldn't matter what I think is the most important thing would be that the logistics of making sure that that the we meet the requirements of you being able to be heard well by everybody in the council chambers during a meeting that type of thing so there are some logistics to making that happen especially if we want you to be Skyped into the meeting not only for our your fellow council members to see and hear you but also for the public and the public at home to hear you so you're gonna have some logistical issues with that I think it could be worked around especially if we had to have some sort of emergency meeting but it's something that we'll cross that bridge yeah that's probably a one-off set okay good well meeting that criteria means there's probably gonna be the potential of background noise so you have some audio control challenges to to hear which you can put headphones in but then to mute the mic but when you underneath the mic there's gonna be that background noise when any one of us if we're in a hotel lobby or a Starbucks or whatever it might be so there is some challenges from an audio quality standpoint to be heard and that's all that background noise but overall this is I think this is a very it may rarely get used but yeah it's definitely nice to have especially we live in the north and sometimes big snowstorms common always been able to conduct meetings even with three yeah okay Mill Anatomy or justjust for a point of clarification that language about being a little Skype and that's that's statutory language so we could do that irrespective of our policy I think the piece is if somebody is absent and they want a statement to be read there's a process by which that can happen yeah so I think that's the change that we're having it with with this change marek just included the statutory language in there as well so I think we were kind of belts and suspenders at this point so yeah thank you yeah I think I think it's a good policy and we're just making sure that we are in alignment with state statute and if you want your thoughts read and not vote you can do that if you're in a different time zone and it's just good policy to have something in one hand but you know you don't have to use it if if it's not convenient okay are you okay with having this come before us at a consent as a consent agenda item or if you're okay with this I can take a boat tonight to just adopt this good there's a motion and a second all in favor please say aye aye opposed say nay in emotion carries we have a policy okay anything else we're moving on to round table there's no items and round tables so I'm going to go events you have anything to report I attended my first metro cities meeting this morning with our city manager Pat Dalton who was a legislative analyst for the House Tax Committee spoke about LGA funding it was very interesting it seems like that formula gets re assessed every 10 years and so there was kind of some hinting of lighting that fire back up and see if the formula needs to be looked at again and everybody had an opinion it seemed like about winners and losers but it was overall was a very good meeting and I really enjoyed it yeah that's all yeah called a broadband our executive director starts at the end of the month so I'll have more nation on that where she takes the control of the whole situation over there oh you made a decision we made this yeah I know it's that last month but she doesn't start until the end of the month so we're excited about her coming in we had our retreat in June and went through a lot of different discussions including our finances and we are taking up our bylaws in August dan McIlroy's working on that along with Amy so they're gonna rewrite our bylaws very good and I'll report you on what they are one might know what they are so can you elaborate a little bit more on the broadband what is the we still just doing the broadband for facilities whatever we're looking at commercial as well that's they're both kind of going hand-in-hand right now and we've had a lot of discussion our executive committee has been doing a lot of the detail work on that and we're gonna get a lot more information to compete with the private sector and we're not trying to compete with the private sector bird if you would like to tour she sounds like the the county is going for to provide access to other entities that would like to come into with the market and to create more competition we would he will be just access we would not be a provider itself as of content how much is that going to be Melanie madam mayor and in council just as a point of reference of the kind of the context that I think about is we would we provide roads right and everybody uses our roads it would be similar for sure yep it would be similar so the infrastructure would be in place and anybody would be free to to ride it you got it but who's going to provide content it would be the providers the rent so there goes because the reason I ask this is because we Burnsville had put our fiber out there for rent and frontier did it and we had zero takers well eating has several takers going on right now and with the anticipation of providing fire boots on the entire county I'm pretty sure you're gonna get a lot more takers in that didn't egon just this last june decide to get out of the broadband thing wasn't it they were never part of the part of the you know I know not and I didn't not in the Dakota County no I don't put in there haven't gotten out of the fiber at all they're building over there like crazy no building their own fiber madam Aaron in Council yeah I think Egan has made quite investments in their infrastructure so they have chosen not to partner on the DVB the Dakota Broadband birdsville similarly has made a significant investment we have chosen to continue to work together because we see that there's an overall benefit to doing that so the intent is to fill that inet need institutional net the next step would be that CNET need so you know councilmember Gustafson our representative so you can speak to the details but that has been the intent all along but i am not aware of Egan backing off of any of their broadband reason you can didn't join us that they're so far ahead of us right now that we would have probably slowed them down and what they're doing okay I just want more information on the CNET simply because of our experience well our new executive director will be coming to all the cities to talk to all the cities about what we're doing so I know what's that what's our contribution to that because I you know I know what happened when we did the DCC and how much money we had to put into this our contribution right now in ninety five a year that sounds about right column I mean that was that you guys did that before I came back to council that was voted on before I even got elected to office that was getting to just the eye net and there I understand I and see were all the same thing over there one of the first day I walked in the door attendez to eventually get both of those letters taken care of and Burnsville is protected with our ass that we have invested in there are is a protection in the agreement our JPA with the rest of the county because in the current configuration dakota county and burns will have the biggest a large isn't it we have more miles and this is my concern we have more miles than anybody else in the county correct and there are protections in place for that while also thinking broadly about the benefit community countywide for those that infrastructure to be put in place so we're happy to get you some more information that content because I just want to know that you know just because of our experience that we had zero take it takers on the sea under seen it when we from our fiber times have changed yeah but we still have fiber in the ground but nobody's still I can I would from my perspective I think the reason we haven't had any takers since then even though the markets has changed I doubt people even know that it exists we haven't marketed it we have know what's marketing it because they were our they they were taking and that they were the content provider I know because we said let's not get in the retail businesses use our backbones sell the excess but I don't we don't have the door no I was right but that's all the other part of all of the expense fiber to the door is much more expensive than fiber to the curb yeah I wish I was the current providers would work with the city when we open up roads and start doing some of that but they don't yeah okay I just need more information Kara nothing to report dad I have an a 35 update the let's see he is a connected automated vehicle expert office director Jay hight buzz from MnDOT came in and did a presentation presentation was so good at our metro cities transportation meeting that happen yesterday I recommended and send information to that this gentleman come in and present to that group because it was a very very informative presentation on autonomous vehicles six may I'll just try and do highlights here six major impacts of connected automated vehicles they refer to it as CAV most people refer to it as autonomous vehicles or self-driving cars greater mobility and equity lots of opportunity for enable folks to get around using connected automated vehicles workforce impacts of course traffic operations transportation this is always a discussion economic development infrastructure obviously that's gonna change a little bit with connected and automated and then of course health and our environment because we're talking about mostly electric vehicles so some key takeaways one thing he noted was fake news the fear of the automated vehicle or autonomous vehicle majority of people in their survey feared it it was very new and scary to many people they're approaching it and this is a byproduct this the study in this presentation was a byproduct of governor Dayton's task force that he put in place many years ago and it still continues on under governor walls is they call it the aces it's a is for automated sees for connected is for electric and s for shared or it's the Aces program it all works on using various technology cameras radar light our thermal cameras computers etc and it communicates cameras see everything around it so these 360 cameras that you'll see on a lot of these cars like in particular Tesla brand he talked about truck platooning saves 10 percent fuel on the back truck four to five percent savings on the lead truck the big takeaway was understand the different types of automated vehicles and there are five levels today most of us drive zero level which is no assistant unless you have some of new other cars with this number one or level one is a driver assist for it and Jeep have a lot of those partial automation is to a Tesla Model 3 as an example of that number level 3 is a conditional automate automation the Audi a8 is an example of that and it's out limited out on the road level 4 we're getting into more automation that's considered high automation it's probably going to be in transit vehicles first and there is a company called ez mile shuttle services which is deploying tests of Luva for high automation transit they've done some tests in fact Minnesota during the Superbowl was a recipient of ez mile shuttles test and then level 5 is the top-end full automation there's none of those that exist yet but it is truly that visionary where the door opens up like a an airplane you get in you tell it where you want to go and it takes you there and it's completely hands-off so a lot of exciting things this like I said this is spelled a lot of myths and misconceptions for a lot of people let's see if there's anything really the state MnDOT has targeted highway 55 from downtown West to an undefined terminus point to be the first corridor that could get the technology installed under the pavement in the easement or the utility lines underground and on signage and etc so they call it the spat SP 80 signal light technology on that route and that's what would communicate to connected automated vehicles to essentially could actually support a level 5 fully automated it requires a lot of infrastructure investment into the Road itself also they noted trunk highway 52 would be the next test corridor for CAV tech testing along with 55 so an interesting update a lot of a lot of details in that hopefully one day we might actually invite this person to present to us because as this subject expands as more these level 2 & 3 cars get on the road there's it's going to present a lot of challenges for local municipalities like how will law enforcement handle a car that's doesn't have a driver and if it does something illegal how does it pull it over Brady to dick it so I mean there's just uh that's a little humorous but there's there's seriously a lot of safety and or law enforcement concerns for how municipalities will deal with that so well we have some time before all that comes in VTA board there was nothing of really any significance and then the metro city's transportation and general government committee yesterday our very first meeting as was reported by Commissioner workman and others that these meetings are cranking up for the summertime we had a presentation on micro mobility Edina and Minneapolis representatives Josh Johnson of Minneapolis talked about their scooter program and so did Edina I think st. Louis Park has something Golden Valley has something and bottom line is I did mention in in the open discussion after the presentation that I jumped in at the NLC to a micro mobility subcommittee of the NLC Transportation Committee and found the first meeting extremely interesting we had LA San Francisco represented there and they tend to set the trends especially with things like this because of the weather year-round out there but lime and Bird are the companies that were part of the initial pilot of 200 scooters and the impact on bike as it called nice ride was rather dramatic like roughly an 80 percent drop in nice ride usage when the scooters were introduced so scooters are definitely more popular in LA in San Francisco from that LLC meeting I will tell you that bikes are almost a thing of the past it's almost impossible to find one in those cities there are thousands of scooters everywhere and that's the preferred mode of transportation so in Minnesota maybe we're more interested in exercise and we might keep some of the bike the dhoklas bike systems but two hundred and twenty five thousand daily rides in Minneapolis they started the program o you of M began its own scooter pilot program in September with two hundred as well and they both ended November 30th of 2018 this year they're coming back they extended it they they did a survey they collected a ton of data they put a dashboard and app together to analyze the data and in real-time can check on it they're monitoring all kinds of things for a moment it's pallidly standpoint complaints parking writer you know damaged scooters complaints from disabled folks that were not happy with the scooters there you probably saw in the news recently there was a pedestrian rights group complaining about scooters being ridden on sidewalks in both cases Edina and Minneapolis and also in San Diego LA and San Francisco and another Sun Belt areas that have tested these programs it's ridden on the road only not on the sidewalk my personal experience while I was in San Diego for the social media marketing world and personally wrote my first and my 20th in a three day period scooter ride using lyft and a couple others it was hard to ride on the road in traffic it was intimidating to be honest or even going 5 or 6 miles an hour going slow around cars he just was probably equally as intimidating as taking a bike on the road and so all of us found ourself and all the other scooter riders on the sidewalk weaving around people and it was a problem so I will say that some drivers I had a near incident where I was crossing a street and then a pickup truck very large truck pulled up and was inching forward like he was anticipating the light to change and in goose it and we're coming across and this was like a pate lane road right across from the the Convention Center and I'm watching him the whole time I'm going and I kept him as I'm and he keeps kind of creeping forward he's starting to over go over the line and I'm watching the light going I don't I don't want to I'm not comfortable like continually walk because he never does driver never turned his head and looked I straight forward just like he was just waiting for that light to change and he was gonna hammer the accelerator and so I knew the light had quite a bit because there was a countdown for the pedestrian so I knew the light was gonna stay red so I kept going but he continued to inch even as I got in front of him he was creeping forward it was like dude you know that there's pedestrians here scooter or not so it was uh it was a bit of a anxious moment to cross the street with one I would have been the same if I was on a bike or even walking they're gonna extend the pilot through 2020 they have seven interested vendors and they are talking about distribution of these like in impoverished areas have to be 30% of the scooters are gonna do six hundred scooters when they come back with not more than 40% in downtown so do the math there'll be 240 scooters in downtown Minneapolis right now and then they migrate around obviously the actually more than that I apologize 2000 total scooters are gonna end up in Minneapolis they are doing a fee of 100 per school er no scooters on the sidewalk signs all kinds of stuff 70% of the scooters from their data are being ridden and parked correctly 30% are being not ridden properly and not parked properly some very interesting data from both of these cities not something that we probably will have to deal with maybe this year but it won't take long for scooters we'll be in second-tier suburbs there in first year now it's coming so it's important for us to think about it and we're gonna have to develop some some policies fortunately we're gonna be down the line in the evolution of the the scooter phenomenon and we'll have plenty of cities here and afar that we can model our policy is over so but it'll be something for a law enforcement than another thing to the one of the things that I didn't I just skipped over is bike lanes are being painted with the with an icon of a scooter there they're gonna paint on the existing bike lanes so on our test on let's see kind of eleven you know from in that segment down to one sixtieth where we have a button of a bike lane we would we would add a scooter essentially icon so it'd be scooter in bike lane and then of course in that segment near your office as well complete streets aren't complete unless you allow scooters bikes so you just you just had to open up that little double done yeah it just comes back it's probably my fault yes madam mayor and council I just wanted to follow up with you on the TIF issue that one council voted on at the last council meeting um I'd send out an email earlier today because I feel that a number of questions kind of process questions from the council so what I want to do tonight is check in to see if this is an issue that you want to revisit at next week's meeting because if that's the case we would just need to notice it and add it to the agenda and any direction you would choose to provide tonight would be helpful so we can prepare for next week so okay I would leave it open our sense question because the City Council ratifies the actions of the EDA is this a special meeting of the EDA to discuss that or this is this a city council item madam mayor members of the council it would be the EDA meetings are now regular council meetings so that would not be a special meeting okay and I believe the EDA and the council would both have to act should you choose to do that okay so members of the council and what is your pleasure after reading or did everybody get a chance to read Melanie's yes Cara I know that I've had enough questions personally that I wouldn't mind revisiting this next week all right so it's an agenda item Melanie thank you madam Erin and council what would we be revisiting I'd like to see a worksheet I I felt like we didn't get the drawing on it at our meeting I know EDC did but we never saw the drawing I don't see where the stone and the glasses in the drawing that I have now seen that we were explicitly told would be in part of this building as we talked about this being a gateway area and it doesn't look like a gateway building to me okay Jenny can you speak to the items that the TIF covers because the building is not what the TIF covers the TIF covers the retaining wall in the stormwater and what else madam mayor enhanced building materials aren't would not be a qualified cost that's right district so the TIF speaks to the finances but as we told you when we brought the item before you illegal council head buys if wanted to have a higher standard when we grant if that we could do that and I think that's when we asked the question did you want to do that and we said no no and so certainly it's problematic to go back the developer has already taken out permits is a tree permit he has a grading permit we can have the discussion but I would just caution you that it it has it wouldn't be without some ramifications at this point Dan well I'd like to say that I wasn't real happy about TIF there anyways aware of that and because of the applicants speech to us about this being a gateway building and the enhanced things he was already gonna do kind of swayed me to go with the TIF otherwise I'd actually voted against it but but I didn't because of the the presentation he gave us and that was all included and so it may not be part of that I know we had an opportunity to make that a part of it but we can assurances from the applicant that it wasn't gonna be a normal building going up there and I feel I filled it that's not what he presented to us afterwards dan well I sent a note to see manager Lee and and asked some questions which staff is doing some research on to get back to I share councilman Gustafson's frustration I went on the applicants word and the presentation and expected something quite a bit different now I guess to the this is two issues to the issue of TIF itself what's done is done to the issue of the building is something that we can treat separately maybe that's what we're after having a discussion on this possibly this turns into something for future policy related to future Tiff's granted but I think on this project I I was floored and underwhelmed dramatically when I saw the drawings and and I agree with counsel my guess is no that is not what I expected it's not what I believe was the presentation and certainly it is not a gateway building look to have tip-ups in that location so the tip up panels I think it lacks in in quality intrinsic sand the design and the materials to the degree that I'd like to revisit it to make sure that it is represented to us now we're gonna be that was the application before us is is the the building design and the land use the TIF is a separate thing so I Melanie's question was did you want to have a tiff discussion I think it's difficult to separate personally that we made for future TIF quality intrinsic building requirement that I think you gave us the open door and we passed I think we got I I'm realizing oops we made a boo-boo there let's go back and revisit that for any future economic development TIF applicants so that's the discussion that that's not necessarily to have necessarily next week but next week we are gonna have the building notation presented with the design elements and that I think is what we're gonna end up voting on that's what we vote on and and Jenny I know it came from the Planning Commission unanimous and I would suggest that it goes on a regular agenda rather than on consent madam mayor members of the council the application that's being considered as a conditional use permit for a retaining law mm-hmm not the building conditional use permit for building height so to the extent the architectural materials relate to the height yeah we have a rational nexus thing otherwise the building meets your ordinance it does um there's a variance for plantings there's a variance for sign yeah so this is not a PUD where it's negotiated so your that's your most leverage in negotiating was with the TIF not the land use because it meets the ordinance for materials we get a legal opinion on that we have consulted with our we've got consulted with our legal counsel on that one thing that they have suggested well not completely non problematic is that the council could revisit the question of enhanced building materials yeah which was asked at the last meeting and I think councilmember Keeley's point the council chose not to put anything in writing at that time so that's where that is where the council's authority would lie or ability to to Jenny's point the building being brought before the committee so all of the before the Planning Commission last night really did meet the city's established standards yeah so there would be no ability for the council to weigh in on that element so they are they are coordinated the two at different actions but they are coordinated does it mean anything that he presented a building opposite of what he told us it was gonna be we have him on film telling us about the stone and the glass and all that that's not what he presented to us Jenny madam members of the council we did look into the materials and into the specs which were in very small print on the planning plan and looked into the manufacturer we believe what he's proposing does have Kasota stone on it so it's not the entire building most of the building is a rock face block as was presented in the plans with the glass and the Kasota stone is on the side of the entryways has talked about at the Planning Commission okay I'm gonna go to Kara first when we had the discussion about if we wanted to do TIF or if we did not want to do TIF for this area and I agree the vote happened listening to my fellow City Council members I felt TIF was not appropriate in in this situation simply because for a building of a size that you know was on there before you know do the 40,000 square feet it was shovel ready and so I felt that was an inappropriate use of TIF because the applicant wished to do something larger than they would need to go further with the land development but my opinion was that's great but that's on you but in listening to my fellow city councillors I will say this they did seem to be more amenable to granting TIF because of how the applicant presented how the building would look how it would function the appearance of it all of that all of that wrapped up into it and that did appear to sway looking at the discussions granting TIF yes or no up and down and now looking at what is there and what is being offered in the building there is the question of if that argument persuaded the majority of council to grant TIF and that was based on information that now appears to be incorrect by the applicants that does call everything into play for me just for me that's my view of it and that's something that should be looked into I do believe our city manager did ask on that and the you know the the response was you can do it but you may not want to do that and set that precedent and I and I understand that as well so I'm I'm putting that out there because I want that to be clear and if that is how my fellow City Council members remember that happening dan in your email a options for counsel while the agreement is not finalized staff would advise counsel that we're sending the approvals not recommended course action should the counsel wish to revisit the issue of enhanced materials as part of the approval the EDA can hold a meeting on July 16th for the purpose of that discussion so the way I read that is because it hasn't been put to bed we still have an open door to revisit the discussion of materials quality etc before it's signed off on Jenny madam mayor members of the council this is and I and we've talked to legal staff and I'm not an attorney but we're getting guidance from them and what our options are it's what we've been told is this is a legal gray area this is kind of unprecedented territory first of all and so we there's not a lot of case law for legal to give really strong advice when we start to get into the weeds here right but there was an approval that was given there's a resolution that was approved and the developer has taken that decision and made his decision and has some permits and started to do some work and has ordered materials and whatnot he has also asked for some changes to the contract it is not signed yet the TIF contract is not signed yet so that is an opener for us to come back with changes of our own perhaps that doesn't mean he'll agree to it he doesn't happen we don't have to agree to his changes okay so there's a lot of different things that could still happen but the option legal has told us the option is there should you want to do that okay council is that's what you want to do and that's what the direction to Melanie and staff to put that item on to look at the enhanced materials change the TIF contract that opens the door for us well look at the whole tip now the development agreement that executes the creation of the tip excuse yeah correct yeah so that opens our door yeah I think we agree we should have that discussion and everything's in negotiation it sounds like the negotiation hasn't closed yet because the applicant is brought backs and requested changes development agreement or to the tip and which triggers to do we have to recognize it parking just I want to finish off there the applicants got a long history with the city and he's a good app in he's a good builder a product etc we're doing this in good faith to go back he's asking for changes in good faith we're gonna go back in good faith and say this is what we'd like done from the material standpoint and let the chips fall where they fall okay Melanie excuse me mad at me I'm sorry come on Samara Keeley didn't mean to interrupt you umm one point of clarification that the edits that the applicant has made are relatively minor I would say so I would I would caution the council on perhaps thinking that we're we have the ability to safely renegotiate the entire agreement there may be some opportunity to have that discussion but I think and I indicated that in my email that rescinding and absent we're sending a major change to it would be problematic from a legal perspective we are a little bit in a gray area less on a gray area with the rescission there's no case law there that would support that decision so we are certainly happy to bring this back to you I just want to kind of manage expectations a little bit my other suggestion for the council is to take this process and sit down and talk with the council about what are the expectations for policy and process when it comes to a TIF project we want to be certain that we're giving you the information that you need to make the informations that you are comfortable with so I think we'll we'll work our way through our current issue and that our suggestion is that the August work session have a deeper died into this topic so we make sure that we're proceeding accordingly yeah I think one thing that might be helpful is if we could have the applicant attend to the elevations and maybe give some clarification as to matching up what was said versus what we see I know that elevations don't always necessity necessarily translate to real life so we can see something and it might look like that but it's hard to put texture and things into an elevation so it would be helpful if mr. Allen could take the elevations and the architectural renderings and maybe give some further definition to what we see in our planning background versus what was stated at the conversation fort if some questions what office warehouse means right that's the product that was brought before us I mean he's a very good orator and I think we all in our heads envisioned something but to your point it is a warehouse but it would be helpful if we could I mean I'm not saying we're gonna throw them on the chopping block but just to maybe say you know the architectural renderings are showing exposed aggregate uniform rib precast concrete insulation panels with smooth finish well it's a little more technical than beautiful stone and glass you know and you know so just to maybe connect the dots would be helpful okay if that makes sense yeah well that's to the point of the enhanced material right so yeah okay and this is where I will probably again on this project be at odds with the rest of Council I don't care what materials he uses mm-hmm once he has approval to make his building as long as it's within fire code I don't care it's his business I also understand the argument that if he is getting TIF you have agreed to strings being attached I understand i underst that argument it's just not one that I have and I I agree our time to have input on this project his best was when we voted on TIF yes Jenny madam mayor just one more thing for the councilmember to think about prior to the next council meeting is if you do get to a point where you are going to make an ask for enhanced materials is to be very specific with what you're looking at for one percentage of glass yeah what square footage what other type of material because there'll be again more decisions to be made so just come prepared with what you were thinking you would find acceptable if once he goes through the the board doesn't meet your standards what what would you want to see yeah it really needs to be specific so we are all on the same page and we all have a shared meaning about what it is that you're looking for okay Melanie and Jenny are you clear then as to what the item is going to look like on the agenda I think okay good thank you in terms of my report a municipal legislative Commission I think we reported on that last month and my meetings with the Metro city's policy haven't started yet but it's coming up for the Regional Council of Mayors meeting I'm going to ask Milani to report on that because I invited Melanie and Superintendent of Schools and our board chair to attend the meeting with me because it was based on our relationship with school districts and we have such a strong so Melanie your thoughts and what you experienced thank you madam mayor and council we attended a meeting made up of a number of superintendents and school board chairs and managers and mayor's I think there is probably seating for at least oh I don't know there was a whole room so it was kicked off by the mayor of Lee Phil who talked about some of the good work they're doing their superintendent in turn gave a shout out to Burnsville and theirs in our school district and specifically reference that several of the projects and initiatives that they've undertaken had been as a result of modeling from some of the things that Burnsville is doing so that was that was wonderful our new superintendent and abigail alt the chair were also there in attendance so they could speak to I'm some of the work being done and it was just a nice opportunity to information share about how do you build those relationships and what is needed for partnerships for our students and for our communities for success thank you thank you and it was great to have Melanie and our superintendent and board chair there because Burnsville comes into this so far ahead of other communities with our relationship with the school district in the work that we've done and so Melanie also reported on our marketing program and what we're doing together with the school district to really elevate our brand and the things that we're doing so we had a chance to tell our story again in that venue and that was that Burnsville Community Foundation a lot of the the work was done around helping the next party in the plaza and who's going to be volunteering to help so that was one of the things and then again continuing to fundraise to finish the work for homage and then that meeting is coming up um the International Festival isn't a we can have and I'll have a an answer for you I had yeah yeah July 20th yes and then also for everybody the mayor's reception four to six and we're inviting all of our global members city citizens and so our hope is that everybody comes and bring a member of our global community that you know in an Prince of Peace and risen Savior and Mary Mother and some of the other churches have also reached out and the church and the school's cultural liaison coordinators are also reaching out to the families that they work with so it's I think it's going to be wonderful we'll have lots of food like we always do and also great desserts so that's coming up International Festival and then the party on a Plaza is yeah yeah and that's coming up and so that's my report is there anything else there my Michelle Jenni I'd like to congratulate our local celebrities at the table for being on The Today Show and you know what I still and I'm continuing to amplify this you know it's the hundredth anniversary of women getting the right to vote really yeah and here we are it's it's only taken us a hundred years thank you so it's nice it was really lots of fun didn't you absolutely yeah how did we hurry this is a fantastic opportunity as Curtis did Marty reach out to them I did I reached out to the local reporters CCO and KSTP and the others well and then I also tweeted out and on Facebook and so the US Conference of Mayors also did that but when I talked to the correspondent yesterday Savannah they saw all of that but it was susan-elizabeth littlefield from CCO it was her piece on us that they watched and they said they want to test for there was a nice piece to that wasn't yeah susan-elizabeth littlefield so I gave her a shout out so in doing that because that's they they that's the clip they reviewed right and then they said oh we have to go put that story on the national stage and so we had a local with CCO and NBC said they'll put it on the national stage so that's where we also if I tweet about Millennials you think I'll get an interview you know you not only tweet you have to get a reporter to write about what's the story on how Twitter works okay with that we stand adjourned thank you everyone