[Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] w [Music] for [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] oh [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] o oh [Music] oh [Music] [Music] [Music] roll call please Carlson here cat here clinten here Henderson viea Miranda and manao we have a physical quum item number 53 and Mr Shelby do we need public comment on 53 or no no okay take you've taken a public comment for everything today there are no public hearings okay just checking yes ma'am hello is the first reading of an ordinance amending City of Tampa code of ordinances to prohibit smoking and vaping in city parks uh we have a short presentation on this item if they could pull up the PowerPoint um I'll just cover quickly the legal basis and then I'll hand it over to uh director Washington to complete the pet presentation um so the city's legal authority to prohibit smoking and vaping in its Parks is derived from section 38629 Florida Statutes the statute specifically carves out an exception preventing municipalities from regulating the smoking of unfiltered cigars so that exception has been incorporated into the proposed order ordinance if adopted the proposed ordinance would amend chapter 16 article 3 section 16- 47 of the city's code of ordinances to prohibit smoking of any lighted tobacco product except unfiltered cigars and vaping of any substance in city parks a violation of section 16- 47 would be a civil civil offense and the penalty would be a civil citation that carries with it a fine as provided in section 23 . 5-5 subpart a of city code with that I'll turn the presentation over to director Washington after he concludes the presentation I director Washington and also Tony mil uh director of Parks and Recreation um will be present and available if you have any questions thank you hello Mr go ahead thank you and good afternoon city council Larry Washington director of solw Department um just FYI I'm currently at Dr Carter um Woodson's elementary school right now that's why you see the background so if there's any noise in the kids I was working with the uh teachers at Great American teaching so I got caught up with the children and I couldn't leave as soon as I needed to so however I know that you're probably wondering why a solid director is presenting on an ordinance change for parks and wreck I'll be able to unpack that as the presentation unfolds so I cannot see the slides can we go back to the slides as well make sure those are up just let me know you can see them and mlan would you mind working the power point for me yes says no signal figure that out let me see yeah if we can blow it up on our screen it's small if we could just make it bigger okay there we go go ahead Mr Washington can you see that yep it's up on my end so as you can see we do not stand alone and what we are trying to do here so these are some of the municipalities that have already moved forward in enacting similar ordinance changes for the betterment of their communities so we see Clear Water of course um St Pete Treasure Island City of Sarasota Etc so sorry all right next slide please and now we just dropped in our logo as well so we are hoping to add our name to the list moving forward so usually we would compile all of these These are facts that we want to present to City of uh the city council however um they really needed to stand out but due to the time frame that we probably have right now I'll go them quickly so in the bottom left corner you can see where the source is and dead center you can see exactly what we want to put emphasis on so cigarette butts are the most litter item in United States in addition cigarette ler is present or present at every Tempa clean up and we know that by the Green Team 76% of the cigarette smoked in public are littered Mo forward cigar cigarette filters are made of plastic and do not biod digr so that is one of the reasons why we need to get them off of uh our parks and our our beaches next slide and an estimated 4 B ion microplastics exist in Tampa as of now next slide over 450 cigarettes collected within one mile at a single cleanup location and over 3,200 cigarettes were collected in one clean up and that was done and conducted by our green team as you can see here the green team is picking up over 200 Cigarettes an hour and of course secondhand smoke weather generated by smoking or vaping is a significant health risk as well next slide so we want to focus on that and just show you real quick and all the references as well to show that this was studied to osum and despite the existing lit ordinance these items are still being littered and they're being littered at an alarming rate showcasing the need for additional steps to be taken moving forward the proposed ordinance aligns the city of Tampa stance against the use of tobacco products next slide and how we got involved so we have a and this research essentially presented here was not or was in part through the EPA trash free Waterway Grant which is a $500,000 Grant awarded to reduce the amount of trash in the Tampa Bay Waters WS waterways if pass the ordinance will be accompanied with a portion of the grant for outreach and awareness so that's rough $80,000 for outreach and awareness and this was not done or toet unpack that as well so we have $30,000 budgeted for a year for our recycling team to promote and reach out to those uh the people in the city of Tampa and that's almost threefold so we'll be able to push off this information and a very consistent basis and that's going to be of course social media we just free and so park benches and really some targeted areas that 20 Moi and team have already identified and this was not done by ourselves as well so we've had the pleasure of working with CPD which team with sustainability and resilience the parks and wck team of course and the legal department so this all ties into the mayor's initiative of keep it clean as well so that is uh my presentation and that concludes it you have any questions council member herac you had questions uh I appreciated the presentation and I completely agree with it littering of cigarette butts is a terrible terrible thing but that is not what this ordinance is saying this ordinance is saying if you smoke in a park we're going to find you $75 it's not dropping a cigarette butt it's smoking at all so if this was a ordinance for littering cigarette butts and me or the city charging you $75 per absolutely but just smoking in a part that this does not match the presentation so I I cannot support anything that gives a civil citation to someone for simply smoking in a park it's illegal we shouldn't do it but there's I mean there's a million things that are illegal that we don't attach fines to and I just think it's a it's a bad precedent again if you want to go ahead and make and change this ordinance to be if you litter and what I asked about this earlier folks said well it's really hard to prove that well 3200 butts in Al Barnes Parks tells me it's not actually that hard to prove it I mean that's a lot so you can watch people drop a cigarette butt but I I can't support something that's that's simply going to add more people into the system for for smoking councilman VI thank you very much and I and I have a sympathy with councilwoman her tax sentiments which is um and and question by the way do we cuz somebody had mentioned something on um uh Tallahassee is this a mandate that we have do we have to implement this no okay no thank you yeah no I mean and and I I appreciate the presentation if this was tailored to just littering obviously but to start doing citations on people for smoking in a park it's it's going to lead to um just more contacts with the criminal justice system where I see the benefit of it obviously L I've never smoked in my life right every time I every time I smell a cigarette that reminds me of my father all he need is a Budweiser and a cigarette and it's and it's my dad God Rest his soul um but um I uh yeah the the benefit of it doesn't weigh outweigh the potential detriment in my opinion um yeah I I at this time I don't think there's something we should move forward on councilman Miranda Henderson I uh have a different opinion um not not quite uh when you prohibit smoking and vaping you're trying to save somebody else's life your life may be gone because you're more likely do it every day for years and years my wife I had a lung cancer she never smoked and I never forget when the surgeon told us it any if she smoke or not when we went up through her whole makeup her father had two packs of cigarette a day and her mother won that's when there was no air conditioning in the houses that's when all girls were inside boys were outside PL that's how it was at that time and I never forgot that this here smoking and vaping is one thing if you want to do it in your own house when you start doing it in the public you're putting others at risk not the butt but when you walk by if there's an event and there's 20 people smoking you're in one of those events and you're not smoking you're inhaling the same thing they are and you don't do the same thing I mean you you don't have to find a bottle of whiskey open to arrest somebody who's drunk you just arrest them because they're drunk in this case I think it's just arrest them because they're not only smoking but they're dropping in city property in this city right now you can't smoke outside this building am I correct that was instituted on the Buckhorn Administration if I remember mlan Evans legal department City of Tampa properties are having a no smoking policy stay correct that's right was it under buor you well you weren't here I'm sorry adopted it's all right thank you and I I I relate this to the same thing if you can't smoke on the city property then you shouldn't be able to smoke in a city park still a city property belongs to the taxpayers not I but thank you that's just my opinion Council H thank you chair um well first I need to say um shout out to Josh balloon and ran and Grant class of 2003 because they are the young men that got me to quit smoking and I'm glad that I did so I'm coming up on like 20 years of not smoking nevertheless um I like the idea of us not having um for parks to be a smoke free zone um for the sake of children and health and everything else uh my concern is the the Manpower um and the citation process of you know taking care of it that way I don't know if it necessarily is um going to be cost effective for us to do that if someone's going to be assigned to double check to make sure you know people aren't smoking I saw someone smoking outside of City Hall we have a rule that it's smoke free but you know they CED a quick cigarette and kept it moving um I just don't know if it's coste effective for us to do that and then it ends up being a situation where if we look at well where are we doing it are we doing it at Al bares Park are are we doing it over in David silent where are we you know giving these citations and then it becomes a disparity um problem where it may be heavily citations in minority communities and not other communities you know I mean it I think um that we would create a different kind of problem um and it just wouldn't be cost effective but I also believe that we should still advertise that our parts are smoked free um and allow that process to just start taking place um and say that it is subject to a fine but Manpower in it I don't know if that part is necessary thank you council member CL um you know I kind of wondered what the motivation with this was but it wasn't I'm old enough to remember when they used to have to fly in airplanes and and you know have people smok in there and thinking you had a smoking in a nonsmoking section which was there was no division or going into restaurants and smoking and nonsmoking and or or riding in a vehicle with the my elderly grandmother and aunts all chain smoking one actually even at work in air traffic control when I first started working they they allowed smoking so you'd have air traffic controllers with one cigarette hanging up in their mouth one in their fingers and one in their ashtray all burning at the same time and I was never a smoker it was just it was it was choking and killing so you know Tampa is getting bigger parks are getting more popular and more crowded um I I agree I'm glad councilwoman Henderson mentioned that CH children and I don't really see this as any different than what we've taken these sociological advances of of banning smoking in airplanes and in restaurants and workplaces because it's also about the the rights of the individuals that are not smoking not to have on INF you know infringed upon them I think the issue with enforcement all is separate from the concept of of of this you know I I understand that it has potential of having and we maybe have subsequent conversation about penalties and whatnot but I think that it's a separate issue from Banning smoking in the Parks and I and I think I I'm fully in support of banning smoking in the Parks um and I think we should probably pass this and if there's an issue with enforcement or resources then we can deal with that later council member herch how about we just pass it without the without the penalty I mean attorney op mlan Evans legal department uh it's council's pleasure if they would like changes substantive changes such as uh changing the penalties and uh let me just double check just to start and because that's references in the title we would have to start over at first reading so could you so I make a motion to redo the ordinance taking out all penalties I would just encourage Council to consider um general public policy to adopt a rule that has no consequences is essentially useless so it might simply be better not to pass it at all than to take away the penalties um I don't think there's a problem with like putting signs up and doing things like that I mean to me this goes right back to the skateboarding in public I don't know for those of you who are here for that um you know skateboarding isn't illegal but we tried to make it illegal here and so for me smoking no you shouldn't smoke or vape in a city park we can put up a sign we can ask people to do it but I think going around policing councilwoman Henderson got to the point for me of where are we actually going to be doing this like where are how how is this going to be used we do not want to encourage people to enter the criminal justice system with in whatever way so we can absolutely uh do what what the the officers currently do for the skateboarding they just say hey you can't skate here they don't do a fine not a penalty so I'm my motion and I'm not going to argue about this my motion is to redo the ordinance taking out the penalties there's a second from Mr Vieira and I would like to go ahead and call Vie motion second the floor we have a motion a second so discussion discussion on that now question question councilwoman herk would would you use the same logic for reinstituting you know taking penalties away for like restaurants and airplanes and all the other public spaces because those aren't public spaces those are private spaces because here's the thing I again for me this is an issue of not introducing people to the criminal justice system that that is it that is all that is my that is my line but it's government that's telling people they can't smoke in a restaurant well that's state government that's not us so I'm talking about things I can control right and and if we start with I just yes smoking you shouldn't do it you really shouldn't do it in a public park but I cannot add another layer of government on top of it oh we have a motion in a second so you're saying signs but no fines I love it hey so I'm going to have it yeah signs but no fines that's what I want the title to be wow I'm in the wrong business um so I'm an avid cigar smoker and um you know if I see a sign I I just follow the rule and there's a sign out here I've never smoked in the parking lot I've never brought a cigar inside I don't bring it in the house I go to a cigar lounge you know out of out of it's right it's right out here when you walk into the front door um that's it all it takes is for me to see a sign and I respect it if there was a sign that said no roller skating I wouldn't roller whatever I don't really roller skate that much but I look at the sign I don't need a penalty I just out of respect say it is what it is Mr chair may I add a legal point of clarification please mlan Evans the ordinance as it's written today specifies civil penalty only and only finds if you remove the specific reference to the so so no criminal connection there right there it can't be misinterpreted as a criminal violation which so the portion of code 20 35-5 is just civil violations If you eliminate that specific language it becomes more vague and references back to portion of code that could include a misdemeanor so you may inadvertently actually be changing the ordinance to include misdemeanors if you include no reference to penalties whatsoever okay then I would say a warning so that's going to be my penalty is we give a warning a verbal or a written warning a warning of what did not do it I like again the whole point is to not to bring people into the criminal justice system civil and criminal same thing you're bringing people into the criminal justice system so the point is just simply give a warning that that is the punishment my legal recommendation would be simply not to adopt the ordinance and make a motion to put up signs uh encouraging people to respect other public members and please not expose them to secondhand smoke I like that so so instead we will take out the ordinance um I resend my motion Mr Shelby that's fine you resend the second then no just so so so my my my suggestion would be then to make a motion to deny this on first reading and give the alternates that way council is taking action with so I make my I I I make the motion to to send the ordinance or I'm sorry what's the word you chose deny to I vote to deny the ordinance we have a motion but and and then but but he said my first motion and then I can make the second motion yes yeah he would yeah he likes that because it's clearer but from a perspective of the minutes okay what you're showing then is you're showing not just is showing you why you are denying it with an alternative okay I I'm Deni I'm denying ordinance and instead asking staff to create a sign system talking about not smoking in Parks second second second from Council ver yes thank you sir uh yes sir and and I I second that and again this ordinance if it was a warning I would strongly support it um it's as as councilwoman herch said it it it serves as a tool to have more contacts with the criminal justice system where somebody uh could to quote Bruce Spring take a wrong turn and just keep going and um and I think we have to be careful on that I do want to say um I you know when somebody shares from the heart on something personal as Charlie Miranda did I I I appreciate that I I really do sir and you know my sentiments in regards so but thank you council member Henderson yeah I was just thinking this is really also a marketing issue which is tied to a budget um where we need to create signs uh that indicate that parks are smoke free and maybe involved Community engagement in that and just really um inform our entire community that our parts are smoke free is what I'm thinking about and the marketing aspect of it um but I definitely can support the motion we have a motion from council member her second council member Vieira all in favor I I any oppos motion carried with Clint dennon and Miranda voting no and now your second motion that that was that was everything okay all right and yeah this is going to save us time if I may sure thank you um I've spoken or with um Chief trip and Miss fely on item number 63 and for purposes of time because we went end today around 4: and and I don't want us to uh be too compressed um on December 5th I have a um a report that I'm going to move at the end of the meeting to written report and then if I may I would like to move item number 63 yes sir 63 to December 5th uh to save his time we have a motion in a second all in favor I all right so 63 has been continued to December 5th under staff reports and then you'll make a follow-up motion for to make one of them a written so we don't bend the rules okay item number 58 and 59 Mr afternoon chair afternoon Council Vic bday director mobility department here to address items 58 and 59 uh a memo to that effect had been submitted by uh uh Brad be Deputy Administrator uh this item and what's in front of you today is a design task as part of a designb build contract to proceed with the South Howard flooding relief project I'd like to present a couple of things before uh we get into the discussion today I know that there's been a lot of discussion about this project there's been a lot of concerns there's been a lot of uh uh real anxiety within the community I'd like to begin by presenting what we presented on November 18th earlier this week to the community and then I'd also like to address some of the concerns that were expressed today by the business Community by the community at large uh in Parkland Estates uh and palomia Pines and other neighbors uh as well so if I may I'm going to use how much time do you need Mr pday I need about seven minutes okay okay it it won't be very long um but I would like to use the Elmo this is for the South Howard flooding relief project a real quick description of what we're trying to do I know we've talked about the water shed the Watershed is from palomia Pines down to Bayshore includes Parkland estate's new suburb beautiful uh Bayshore beautiful this in particular is what we're trying to do with this project to increase the drainage capacity of the Watershed by five times I know there's been a lot said about how many in is what your storms and all of that but to simplify it we're ex expanding the capacity of drainage five times so whether it's storms whether it's hurricanes whether it's major events this project will benefit the Watershed and help reduce or eliminate structural flooding homes and businesses as part of this project we've looked at many options but I'd like this highlight three options because these were discussed today when we look at storm water projects in general we look at pipes or culverts culverts is a fancy name for a pipe that may be a different shape that is the preferred option it's the most resilient it uh is the most cost efficient and it uses gravity that's what we want to do that's what we're proposing with this project as well it's also the most res resilient to all sorts of events because ponds May overflow and there's nowhere for the water to go whereas with culverts you have an outfall at all times ponds are another solution we've looked at this as well you're going to need a 25 acre Pond to provide the type of drainage capacity 25 uh football fields basically so that's a very expensive proposition in this Watershed in particular and we'll look at that in a second uh and then pumps pumps are the least resilient solution usually utilized in a basin that is challenged where you may have to pump something Beyond a certain point it's got higher operational costs uh relative to the capacity that you can build and requires a lot of uh preventive maintenance I think the question of options and how many options we've looked at was discussed as well over the last seven nine years now we've explored over 19 options and this is a quick summary by no means do I expect that to be legible or read but we've looked at 11 different pipe Culvert options different routes outside of South Howard we discussed what the challenges with the other routes were but the main thing is limited right of way which might uh Force the city to either do eminent domain or get easements from a large number of properties and have infrastructure be located under those properties it's not a viable option uh three pipe Culvert with Pond options were also explored earlier that point was made today that have you explored a combination we did it was not the most feasible the most viable option five Pump Station with Force main options were explored and two others as well um some short-term Solutions were mentioned and discussed today uh in the comments we are resurfacing palmaia Pines we had issued notices to neighbors prior to the storms the storms have of course delayed that that will include reprofiling of the roads which will uh provide that short-term benefit which was documented in the GMT report the other item that was documented in the JMT report was the Albany Pond and improving the the connectivity there that's included as part of this project Thea is contributing $1 million to this project to mitigate some of the expressways uh uh storm water needs and that point of connection is the Albany Pond and that will tie into the Culvert system on Howard Avenue that is what we're proposing and that is part of this project as well just a visual of how big that pond would have to be it would be located in Parkland Estates which is the low point it would basically take up most of Parkland Estates and so that would be the 25 acre Pond Solution that's a lot of real estate this is what is in the contract in front of you after extensive engagement a review of three potential route options that connect to South Howard Avenue leverage the box below the CSX line Leverage The Box and outfall at Bayshore so that neither has to be reconstructed and a different route uh and these three options would be subject to design uh and discussion and I'll touch upon that uh in a second we believe that this project will mitigate structural flooding that we saw from Milton that level of intensity there will still be Street flooding but it will mitigate flooding uh into people's homes into people's businesses this is well considered and well studied I'm going to touch upon businesses supporting our businesses on Howard uh and and a lot of the considerations that we have made towards that because because some of the things that we heard today were that maybe we've not given enough thought to this uh maybe we haven't uh done as much homework as we need to over the last seven years across three consultant studies and significant uh consideration so the team has done a lot of due diligence and our team is here today our chief engineer is here our uh storm waterer manager the consultant as well as the contractor kimens are here joined by us along with administrator Jim Duncan I'd like to start by saying on the diligence this will not be southe seol Heights this is not that project we've learned from that project this will not be it we've done a thorough constructability review and our contractor is available to answer any questions relative to that our team has walked the entire Corridor met every single business talked to them shared information about the project projects we've had meetings with the Soho business Alliance Burns and other stakeholders as well uh and our design criteria packet before the RFQ was issued was developed by experts also on business deliveries our parking department works in SoHo downtown eore South Howard uh height Park everywhere uh we are very very uh familiar and will be taking every care to ensure that deliveries are made appropriately most deliveries happen with a truck on the street and carts that empty uh uh or or carts that deliver either uh drinks or food into the restaurants and Facilities that will be managed by our contractor they've done this before in urban environments we're aware of it through the phasing of the project there will be impacts and disruptions we've talked about it but you're still talking about an 18-wheeler or box truck or whatever form factor that is a block or two away from the business that is impacted for five to seven weeks so that is the extent from a delivery standpoint that we anticipate for the most part and I say for the most part because there are always exceptions I know epicurian was mentioned uh and and burns earlier today I'd like to highlight that the epicuren has two different entrances those entrances are connected on the internal part our phasing anticipates to have one of these entrances to the epicurian available and open to customers and deliveries at all times it won't be perfect by no means will this project be perfect it is disruptive in its nature given that box Culver have to be be built down a narrow space but that opportunity will be available on Patron access golf carts are just one option that the contractor will uh will exercise and any other creative ideas there are but we will always have sidewalk access available for patrons for the parking lots for the patrons most businesses on Howard most businesses have access from side streets to the parking lots some do not and we will work with them but this is most businesses along South Howard and the green is if if it has some sort of access either through an alley or a side street um we will take care of lighting uh we will take care of trailblazing and work through that with all of the businesses to make sure patrons know where the businesses are through the construction and they have access to it uh properly construction means will also be uh modified and kimens can speak to that to provide faster shorter segments in the most critical locations so typically you have uh staging you have restoration and you have active construction going on that one or two of those elements can be removed in certain critical areas to move through there a little bit faster uh so that is available within the contract there's a significant maintenance of traffic plan including early works that will resurface side streets that will trim trees to accommodate for trucks and better access Solid Waste fire and police work mentioned uh we have coordinated with all of them these are City departments after all all of them were present in our February meeting with the Soho business Alliance and burns and epicurian that happened at the epicurian so they were there we will of course uh follow all of the appropriate rules through this construction process uh as as the project moves forward we heard from servers today we heard from people in the service industry and I know some of them are here today we are very very sensitive to that also we understand by no means do we understand their concerns as much as they do or their business owners do but we're the same team that through covid and that industry faced a lot of challenges through covid that shut down streets to expand capacity for restaurants and businesses we're the same team that came up with creative rules for parklets and sidewalk cafes some of those rules that we've extended past covid and are still to this day available to restaurants we will work with them with everything in our means uh we will support businesses on Howard we will work on programs like shop Howard similar to shop gandi I've been in touch with Greg Slater with Thea they had a very successful program uh a community partnership you heard from community members today committed to patronizing these businesses as well working with the Chamber of Commerce working with City departments and working with any other institutions to ensure that we can all come together work together through this important project through this critical need in terms of timing we've heard that the business Community has asked for 120 days to coordinate on the design that is what they want to coordinate on what other options there are it'd be great to have the designer on board for the same that's the task in front of counil today is uh a design contract and the reason I say that is we have about two years to plan the design process will take about a year there's a year of early works as well which which will have a full Lane on Howard open so there's plenty of time to work together and plan this out and understand how we can all help each other to to provide this flood mitigation in the area and on that note I would like to reiterate that we have done our due diligence if there were better routes or if there were better options we don't have any vested interests as public servants not to put those forth it's in the charter and we take it seriously Public Safety and Welfare is what we do and we're looking at the longterm over three generations and the needs of three generations balancing them with real challenges with business access but we've done our homework we've got a great team on board they're willing to work with the community on this and we will work with them and I'll just end by saying what is in front of you again is a design task you're going to get another bite of the Apple in looking at the construction aspect of this but having our designers on board will allow us to better engage the community better Engage The Business Community if they have experts and they have Engineers with ideas it is our designers that ultimately need to work with them to really get us uh to to uh deliver this project so I will end with that and I'll be happy to take any questions thank you very much that was a that was a great presentation uh Mr bidday the first of the flooded homes that I visited were in palmacea Pines on Habana uh people that are here in the audience I went into several homes with the drywall cut out and the floor torn out and again I've been here my whole life and I I can't remember a time when that area north of swan flooded I understand Howard Swan uh area south of there but these houses flooded we walked the neighborhood this is without any any people from the city of Tampa my legislative Aid and I went there after the meeting um and we were talking about the storm water inlets at one of the four you know one of the intersections and I'm looking at it um and I can't see where the water would flow to you talked about uh repaving and Grading uh we looked at the uh storm water retention Pond that was under uh under one of the parking lots we looked at a deadend area that was fenced off and with some of the neighbors we go look at this I mean it's not even kept up it's not it's not clean the water has really no it's it's a design flaw I look at Parkland south of Swan and northst onean has two different entities why can't we do immediate short-term fixes to the Palace of Pines I had this discussion with the previous mayor look the asphalt is too high the water can't flow into the storm drains the storm drains aren't clean uh this water goes into a dead end it's not even connecting to the storm water Pond to me not the engineer we're the finance people at this point because you're asking us for almost $8 million today why can't we immediately address that neighborhood now it does not I I've went over this contract the other day I went over it again and I want to ask the question was palmaia Pines considered before Milton because the contract only talks about south of swan the people are here there's many people from that neighborhood here it's going to rain again right now hurricane scon is season is over uh it rained a little bit yesterday and I was terrified going it's going to rain on Wednesday right before the meeting it's going to rain on Wednesday up all night waiting on this rain the rainy season was is going to start again this summer this project is not going to start to three four years whatever what can we do for them today I've been in those houses and if you look at the curs their entire life is is out you know I don't know how much of the debris has been picked up because I would drive through there at least twice a day until my wife finally said enough you're off the it's 10 o'clock on a Saturday night stop because I care what can we do for that neighborhood now cuz it's going to start raining in June it's going to start raining in July and we get those heavy afterno and rains regardless of this project again I never saw that area flood until Milton yes it was a hurricane but you know when people tell me no when the previous administration told me no when we passed this original storm water assessment it's extremely frustrating it's this is the way to do it this is the way to do it this is the way to do it everything was no and I'm not that stupid that I can't figure out common sense going the water has nowhere to flow to um parland Estates is is is different it acts as a basin I saw the videos flowing down Armenia and other streets from palmaia Pines into Parkland flooding those I've been in those houses too that's another neighborhood going in twice a day do they get their debris picked up you know we heard from people today on Howard Avenue about their businesses being affected I don't know how many employees 1,700 2,500 I've heard so many numbers um this is a this is a majorly impactful project I know it's not easy uh we talked about um 120-day continuance you say no uh if we approve this today the design build uh it goes into that same timeline you allow the the design to happen but from my understanding once we approve a design build and yes there are other bites at the Apple the ship has sailed we can't cancel the contract I mean I think maybe the mayor can cancel a contract but there it's a point of no return that's what what I'm saying is you know you have storm water engineers and I I respect all of you you've had multiple opinions but I remember a story and I'll close with this I met a man uh who had a brain tumor and he asked he the reason the conversation came up because he went to a neurosurgeon last name mana scalo and he said nobody wanted to operate on me everybody I went to every specialist says there's nothing I can do there's nothing I can do until Dr Mana scalco uh was able to operate and I'm alive today and now this has been 20 years and the man is still alive he went to the experts but he got different opinions what I want to know is what what difference does 120 days make on something of this magnitude you're asking us could be $65 million total could be more today you're asking for 7.7 million um why can't we get other opinions why can't we address Palace of Pines right now I think that's the easiest part of this project yeah yeah I'll I'll be happy to I heard three things why can't we do something about Pia Pines right now uh I heard that has palomia Pines been considered as part of this project before Milton and then the third is the 120-day continuance so I'll start with uh has P palomia Pines been considered before Milton on the Elmo right now is the first page of the JMT report that shows what the Watershed is this is a gravity system meaning you've got palmaia Pines on top then you've got Parkland Estates then you've got uh new suburb beautiful bore beautiful and bore so this is a sheet flow gravity system that has been that way due to the the geology and and the hydrology of this area so when you increase the uh drainage by five times from Parkland Estates on down what it creates is the opportunity that many times over up to the capacity of that 36 in pipe on aabon for flows from Poma into Parkland Estates to the outfall so there's a direct benefit by doing just that there is nothing in this contract that precludes us as part of the design process from upping the size of that 36 inch pipe to Poma Pines as well so that is part of this also so Poma Pines has been considered from day one uh a lot of the initial engagement after the 2015 flooding was done with Parkland Estates admittedly so through the through the planning stages but this impacts the Watershed and palia Pines is part of the Watershed our commitment is to address structural flooding in Pia Pines and Parkland and uh the entire Watershed for the metrics that we said the other part of it was what are the short-term solutions for pomacea Pines why can't we do anything right now so the GMT report does mention that we need to pave and repprofile the streets we are going to pave and rofile the streets in palmaia Pines uh as our in-house Paving teams were doing Howard and Armenia palomia Pines is just to the west of that that's where kind of that Watershed begins we had noticed the communities that we would be Paving there and then we got the storms so that whole timeline is shifted but it's shifted by months and not more than that so we will be out there Paving that will include reprofiling incorporating some of the JMT report uh recommendations that channel that water better as far as the existing system system at the Ami Pond and its design uh the design you mentioned was not right I would say the design is just Antiquated relative to our needs the design is from decades ago the pond is a vault built decades ago is it sufficient it's not that's also on the first page of the GMT report that for this Watershed the drainage system is not sufficient and the outfall is not sufficient that's what we're trying to solve for here that's what we're trying to uh work towards and on the 120 day continuance I didn't refuse or say that we shouldn't do it what I'm saying is the design is going to take one year there's one year to do early works when one full Lane on Howard is available as utilities are being relocated water Wastewater others we have that much time and we're talking about the design so let's have the designer on board to support these conversations we're already providing for resources in this contract for exactly that so another few stakeholders are welcome to this conversation that's that's our goal so I one last question if we approve this today and the design everything goes on schedule the project begins at Bayshore and it goes north correct and it takes let's say it takes three years or four years or let's say three to four years it doesn't end at Swan until the end of the project and then it all is completed correct correct but I'd like to caveat that because there will be work along Howard Avenue and side streets that happened well before that so my question is you mentioned the the repaving and and Grading of Hy of Pines when does that take place right now within month because there's there's they're sitting behind you the people that live there yes we want we want it now I mean it's it's it's structural physical and psychological damage every time I mean absolutely I'm not affected by it but yesterday it was going to rain and I said what's going to happen now and thankfully nothing happened but the rainy season will be here come this summer I don't want to give people false hope and say well in three to four years after you go through three summer storms maybe you know after house repeatedly floods because everything is no and we can't do this other than pave your road I don't want to give people false hope because people come to us looking for help as a city council and our hands are I don't want to say tied but it's we can't keep saying well you know well you know I mean they want solution they've lost everything or most things and they're paying a fortune out of pocket anyways I I'll just keep talking and I'll go to other council members council member clinten you has to be organized first and then whoever else um thank you I I appreciate you and everyone else in the city and their responsiveness to this complex issue um like chairman Maniscalco I've also been in the in these homes and and I've I've seen the issues that have occurred in both of the neighborhoods that have been discussed um clearly this is an issue that is decades in the making and you know it's it's not something that's going to be resolved overnight in spite of of think people's you know wishes and desire desires and you know we can point fingers backwards at former leaders and former officials that maybe you know either didn't have the political courage to stand up and do something or or just for whatever reason it didn't it did not happen so all we can do is deal with the circumstances that we have in front of us today um we have a lot of folks that have been negatively impacted by uh freshw flooding in these neighborhoods and others so the we know we're just talking about this neighborhood today but there's other is in the city of Tampa and Council M ver will testify that in his district that a lot of people have suffered in in in that District as well across the entire I mean honestly every one of our council districts have has experienced some degree of freshwater flooding or you know from Devastation to minor um what I'm looking at is you know you and I had that conversation about the empty box you know so we're voting on empty box not knowing what necessarily what's inside so I'd like to give some context and because you know you hear from everybody everybody that stood before us today had from their perspective and their life experiences and their business experiences had valid concerns and it's it it's a shame that it kind of gives its tone of us against them but really it's it's everybody coming to the table with their own wants needs desires heartache Financial strains whether it's personal because you can't you know I have found personally flood insurance does not cover damages you know that think it's going to and it cost you a lot of money out of pocket which I'm dealing with myself because I had flood I had flood damage um so everybody's so everybody has their perspectives that's why I hope everybody realizes regardless of where what neighborhood you live in or whether you're business or homeowner the people that are coming before us today all have valid concerns and they just want to be heard by the same government that they pay taxes to we all we all pay taxes and we all have responsibility and I think somebody said you know what do you expect out of your government you want them to provide you clean water they want you to take the dirty water out of your house they want your trash picked up and you want Safety and Security and that you know all this other stuff we do in City of Tampa we shouldn't do any of it until all of that is taken care of I mean that's the basic Foundation of what government should do so I I Circle back to the context I'd like to provide what I'm looking for in this in this project is I think I think you all and your Consultants should come back with proposals on like three proposals one proposal should include a route that does not include Howard Avenue one proposal should include a route that does not go through Parkland Estates and one proposal should include a route that uses Swan to reach Howard Avenue so and and look at those proposals and I don't believe any we've already passed this unanimously I don't think any of the proposals should include Bristol um because the what the this tremendous impact that it would have on Bristol Avenue this council's already expressed that that desire um and I think every proposal that is created not just in the the because the Milling is you know is good and it'll resolve some issues but the the systemic issues that we have specifically in pacy of bins along a Zeal and the businesses and the home homes that along that street we need more of a comprehensive plan and I think that and I know it's going to cost more money and we're going to have to find that money or we're have to bond that money but I think this proposals need the scope of this project has to be expanded so that when you're when we're engine in this uh this this very significant mitigation process that Palace of Pines is included as equal parts of this equation of this Watershed of taking this water from these neighborhoods to an outfall um I concur with your assessments about the ponds overflow you know potential overflowing and outfall of obviously is the most desirable way of of of shedding water out of here is getting it at someplace where we we have an ability to get it off of the ground um so that's what I would like to see as we frame the context of this approval for design build that that context takes into account those three types of equ of equations that we're not using Bristol and that all of the that we expand the scope of this project to include pacy Appliance appes and being able to get the water out of that neighborhood because what I fear is that the infrastructure that we're going to put in place for the U Parkland Estates portion that has been conceived make sure that it's engineered designed to fit well with taking the water out of Palma pance and I understand your concept of okay you get the water out and you still got someplace to flow but we still have to make sure that the volume is sufficient to get it all off the land and to where we want it to go so that's what I would ask for you is I would I yeah I would support I would support this process of design build with these caveats Mr and then I'll go to council member Carl so councilman Point very well taken I I understand what you're saying we will look at it we've also heard very clearly from the community's concerns relative to Bristol I just can't make a commitment until uh the designers do the design and follow the process of discovery based on facts and evidence those type of things but that will be our goal that is our commitment is is to bring the community together and deliver a solution that works for all with most considerations uh being fulfilled on a couple of things that you mentioned about looking at Swan uh Swan connecting to Howard is that what you were okay got it got it perfect so clarification there appreciate also I'd like to highlight that the original recommendation for this project was Morrison but because of Grand Tree considerations in a short segment it was then moved to Bristol but because of concerns with Bristol we looked at we put all three out there and said we do the discovery so your recommendation is very much consistent with that uh of of looking at all of them but I want to assure Council that we are aware of the community's concerns around Bristol and if there's any way we can do uh another route that will be our goal but that will have to be a function of the design of course yeah I just want I just want to clarify that because you know reference the engineers you know we've had this conversation in making these determinations engineer Engineers come from you know a I want to get from point A to point B how am I going to do it boom bulldozer right and then you know staff comes to it from a another type of perspective and then you have the neighborhood and the businesses and then you have the politician and it's up to the politicians to kind of throw all of those things onto a scale and come up with something that kind of meets everybody's needs so I I get the fact that we want to rely on those consultants and and Engineers but we also have to give equal weight to all the components okay thank you ABS absolutely and and I appreciate your kind of unifying message here on that council member Mr Shelby did you want to go before council member Carlson yes because it's come up as a result of council member Glen Dennis's discussion two people during public comment referenced a prior motion of council I believe it was made in June that was a specific official direction of council at that time and that motion is still out there so I'm concerned that this needs to be that needs that motion needs to be addressed before you take up this motion because I believe they are contrary well I I think that that motion still stands and that was my reiteration of basically restating it and when I was talking about these issues that motion that's that that still stands that's still the will of the if still stands then then is what's being brought to you then out of order so if I could address that yes uh chair uh so I don't believe it is because what is in front of council right now includes options that are consistent with the motion the motion was to preclude a certain route and what is in front of you are options that do that itself that all I'm saying so so let me to give you my take on this and legal and and Mr bday you can correct me if I'm wrong staff has come forward with a proposal for design building this project previously this Council passed a motion with guidance reference to the one route say we against the Bristol route that that still that still stands so this this request from staff the proposals they'll come through will not include Bristol is that my question is then I have to review what does the contract say what are you actually voting on because what you're voting on controls the the contract has Bristol as a as an as a possible something it's on the so we need it's something to be reviewed it is not so the contract right now is a designed task it's not for implementation so so we have to so if if what you're saying do we understand so that that contract Bristol has to be stricken from that contract it doesn't need to be in my opinion but that's not what you have in front is the contract in front of them I'm sorry is the contract in front of them today the contract is in front of of them today does the contract in front of them reflect any reference to Bristol it does then then what you're voting on includes Bristol so we I motion was if we to pass this if we make a subsequent motion to ensure that that's stricken from that contract we don't get to negotiate contracts at this point and by the way the question is and I guess this maybe as a question for legal but if you pass this then and they come back and say your route is Bristol then what is your remedy as a council to that there is none so why so Mr Shelby why wouldn't this Council have the authority to put a caveat in the authorization to spend $7.7 million because the charter says that the contract is negotiated by the administration it is brought to you and your opportunity is not to renegotiate the contract you you you can continue it for to further discuss it with you or you can vote it up or you can vote it down but okay talk this over with me so we are I I do have by Charter the ability and the authorization to to pass these budgetary items I also have the authority to not fund budgetary items so I could say I do not want any money of the 7.72 eight $7.7 million spent on onist on Bristol I think that I think that's too specific as to your Authority frankly does city does City lawyers attorneys believe the same thing so if my understanding is right the motion from the last council meeting was to come back with ideas and Concepts that preclude Bristol they weren't yeah but it was so so it wasn't matter of discussion not a matter of action what is in front here is a contract with options that also are consistent with uh that motion but that motion wasn't an action it wasn't bring us it was an action a vote of four is an action of city council was it voted on it was unanimous as I recall so I I don't have a I don't have an I don't have an issue with what council does I don't have a dog in the fight my my concern is that based on what the direction of council is happened and we could we could bring up the language and if the if the clerk can bring up the language I know somebody from the public two people put it up today um or raise the issue my concern from a practical standpoint if Council has taken a policy position and now something is being brought to you inconsistent with that policy that that in some form of fashion needs to be resolved and if it means resining that motion or amending that motion to include Bristol so the contract can go forward but if that contract in it makes reference to Bristol that sounds to me inconsistent with the policy that this Council has previously taken by official action under the charter by making that motion so I just want it resolved one way or the other either way I just don't want to in I just don't want to say somewhere down the line well when you passed this you overruled your own policy it has to be knowingly willingly and voluntarily done in my opinion yeah I still don't understand why I can't as Council have a stipulation of of money what when when I'm not negot say I'm not negotiating a contract but I can say I'm I'm not going to fund well then what's the remedy under the contract if you don't fund it I don't know what the answer to that is but but certainly there's a company that's relying on a design build contract that you're approving and once you approve it there's certain obligations that the city has so I don't know what the remedy is you're asking a question that's beyond my scope based on my knowledge of this project so this contract attorney with has the understanding and ability to answer that question you can continue and ask for a different contract they shouldn't have put it in there knowing that we had already passed this wait are you council member Carlson you want to I was just responding to that issue ask here we go here's the City attorney so I apologize I've been stuck on the elevator so I don't know what the question is so let let me unless Mr Shelby would you like to summarize it you want me to yes I thank you the original motion was when uh the original motion was made by uh council member Carlson seconded by council member Miranda on June 20th 2024 Mobility staff to provide a written report on using Bristol Avenue for the vaults and to bypass the neighborhood as they work to um as they work to resolve the flooding issues using commercial corridors and that Council will not vote or fund a plan that places vaults on Bristol Avenue and that was um uh it was uh a verbal report was November 7th continued from September 5th of 2024 sorry Mr bday transmitted a background on it and the memorandum was received and filed and the the motion to receive and filed carried unanimously with Miranda and and Vieira being absent at Mr Mr Shelby he he com he combined two items that week and didn't answer this question it was by combining two items the other the other item was answered but that one that was never responded to in do this say specifically which route or can we say that this is still cons Madam clerk are you able to uh print that out to my I could I guess I could print that out just the the email itself go ahead if I may guys so my my interpretation of this would be just in 30 seconds is we made a preference in June that had no binding effect this wasn't an ordinance um it was a preference at the time this would be a resolution with more B effect I don't want us to get into a rabbit hole just yet on this I think we ought to look at the larger picture and then Center in whenever we take action I think we're getting into a rabbit hole right now frankly and and we got to you know we we have certain time and I think we ought to go forward and if it's the count if it's council's wish that we exclude Bristol from consideration right off the bat the con the resolution does not say anything specific to that nor does the contract is my understanding so we can proceed with the other two options okay all right you work it out and I'll go to council member car council member Carlson yes Mr Shel Just One Last Thing One Way one way to do this if Council as a body accepts that all you can do is you could you can move to amend that motion to to to amend that section what happened in November I I say a motion of counsel with a vote of four has the effect of a resolution having a resolution does not create greater format it's formalized it's in writing it's a public record but as an effective and Council all the time takes action by motion only Mr council member yeah I have a lot I want to say but I want to say a couple things in in response to some of the things that have been said and then maybe in the second round say a few General things on I think the solution to this is that is that we ask them to go back and and remove any reference to um to Bristol from the contract because that was the instruction we had given they should provide a contract that doesn't include it and they should have given a report um two weeks ago on it um in regard to palmaia Pines I also went I don't remember within a couple days after the storms and the the neighbors yeah Take It Outside The Neighbors some of whom are here and were here today were gracious enough to show me their homes and the devastation and how they're renovating and we also drove around the neighborhood and this is not a question I'm just making comments as I toured the neighborhood I saw uh ditches that were that had not been cleaned out in a long time I saw debris that was blocking ditches I saw um uh reservoirs uh Retention Ponds that that looked like they had not been maintained and and we saw a pump uh that I was told uh by the neighbors was uh was being repaired and and that had gone out in some way and so um it appears to me it appeared to me appears to me I've been back through the neighborhood more it appears to me that there should be instant maintenance and again this is not a question I'm just making a statement there should be in instant maintenance The Neighbors on that day were asking me to make sure that the maintenance occurred there needs to be in instant maintenance there and and one of the um culverts or Retention Ponds is under a parking lot that's privately owned but there should be some way to clean that one out as well there have to be we have another motion that's going forward to look at short-term Solutions but um we have to look at that it's clear that palmaia Pines is not in the in this plan um when I asked Mr vday to show me it on the map the other day it was toward the north of it just because it's in the larger storm waterer area does not mean that Solutions were provided and again this is not a question if if if pomacea Pines was meant to be included the pipe or coverts would have gone up to pomacea Pines but they were not uh this is what I call afterthought justification where where these these excuses are made after the fact we need solutions for py of pines and it's it's frankly offensive that that the and and and and inhumane to some extent that the people in palac of Pines have been told that they had a solution and there really isn't one um also uh Mr Bey you talk about nine years and other people talk about 10 years and everything as you testified two weeks ago I learned about this in August a year ago and I had a a a neighborhood meeting with you and Mr Adams and others um a couple months later and in October so I have been involved in this for a year uh the community thought that the city was going to listen to the concerns and come back and modify the proposal frankly this proposal today I was blindsided by I found out about two weeks ago um so the Administration has decided to push this quickly and now there's an urgency to get this done this project has been out there for a long time as people have testified this city council as you testified a couple weeks ago has never slowed this down today if we if we vote to to slow it down it'll be the first time city council ever ever slow it down staff has slowed it down in the past former mayors have slowed it down but this city council has never slowed it down there are many many concerns about this project and one of the concerns you talk about public input what you've done is not public input it's called public information or public education you're telling the public what you're going to do and then you listen to what they say but you don't do anything with it if we if you were listening even to us Bristol would not be included in the contract public input is where you really get the the public engaged and this is the issue I have with this there are maybe 20 neighborhoods that were flooded in South Tampa I've been to all of them I've toured them I worked with them I've worked with you Mr be the day after the last the last meeting you and I were in another neighborhood and we were collaborating working together for some reason this neighborhood has the mo the most incredible divisiveness that that I've ever seen yeah people are angry they're fighting they're arguing is it somebody in the neighborhood who's pushing it is it the administration I don't know but what I do know is that this is the only neighborhood that to to my knowledge that the mayor her the mayor's political adviser and the mayor's communication adviser have been to and why why is it that the mayor and her staff and and everyone didn't handle this in a collaborative way why is it that leadership hasn't been shown to bring everybody together two weeks ago I I beged for collaboration I beg for everybody to come together the neighbors and all these communities are begging for us all to come together for a solution and I'm not this is a rhetorical question I'm not asking for an answer but we need we need leadership at this point to bring everybody together if we I was telling chief of staff at the break if we approve this today there's going to be a war in South Tampa and it's not going to be the fault of the city council it's going to be the fault of the administration for creating and throwing flames on the war if we say we want a 90 uh 90 or 120 day uh delay there's the people now in palmaia pines and part of Parkland states are going to be furious and angry and either way what we need to do is find a way to bring the community back together this should not be divisiveness like this uh in any neighborhood this is completely unnecessary there were lots and lots of neighborhoods that were flooded and there are different solutions for everyone we need to work hard to find those Solutions and collaborate and again I'm not asking questions I'm not asking for feedback we just need to work together to find Solutions I think we need to uh take some more time to make this to work correctly I've I've worked on billions of dollars of infrastructure projects before I got on Council I've never seen one so badly handled before this is not the legitimate process that that that engineers and planners go through and you all know kimman knows because Kim him handles these projects you should not have to sign up for millions of dollars of projects before you start doing public engagement that what has happened to date is is embarrassing from a city point of view what we need to do and I would ask the mayor and her staff hit the reset button throw the politics out the door and let's figure out how to collaborate to find Solutions thank thank you very much who's next council member VI thank you very much and I appreciate the you know thoughts of everybody you know um there's a couple things that I think are clear from the outside which which is there's no easy way out on this there's no shortcut home at all um and and in taking a look at the different you know factions or sides or interest here there's no bad guy here okay there's no Rocky and Drago on one side there's both people who who all mean well and who all have very legitimate points I always say I I I work as a um as a mediator and that there's a lot of cases there's a lot of things in life that are black and white and then there's a lot of cases and things that are gray where there's a lot of gray this is clearly a case where there's a lot of gray um and and as I'll talk about there's the kind of situation where when you run for office it's the kind of decision you have to make where you're going to tick somebody off you're going to make somebody angry and and maybe even inflict hurt one way or the other um in the decision you make and you have to live with that as an elected official but I always say if you're going to take somebody off you might as well take somebody off for doing what you think is the right thing which is why I always tell people in public office to go with your heart on stuff because you're going to take somebody off um no matter what so you know before Milton um I I had spoken to uh various interests on this on both sides of it and I had my views on it which I'd Express um and Milton for me changed my perspective on a lot of things um you all have seen me in terms of the way that I almost you know just with just great Vigor uh in the areas of my uh District uh that were flooded you saw this morning that uh investigator the inquiry that I want to do uh in the the county mission is moving on we're moving forward on you know moving hard on things like we all have been uh here in Tampa City Council Milton for me has changed everything and you know my perspective on this is the option of whether through the the operation of delay or through any other method of telling the neighborhood here the flooded right that we're going to continue to tolerate this in one way or another right to me is off the table it's unacceptable um and this project whether it's delayed whether it happens a year from now in terms of the beginning the design whether it doesn't have the votes today whatever it's going to eventually happen and there's going to be heartache in that transition there's going to be challenge in that transition that's never not going to happen um when it comes to this project it's a fact that um if if again there's design there's a lot of Engagement in that Etc there will be some heartache and and pain suffered throughout Howard there will be some challenges um there's some things that I think we got to talk about that if we do go forward ultimately is taking a look at the contract for example with a contractor and saying to the extent we can do this okay if it's going to take just making something up 60 days and if you go over 75 days can we do penalties can we do different things like that we ought to look at that uh to make sure because sometimes part of the contract yes sir and thank you for that yes sir so that I'm and I'm glad to hear that um but again I don't want to do anything that sets up benchmarks or additional extensions right that moves things further away from relief for this neighborhood um that for me is the narrative that I go on on this issue uh and and again leaving this neighborhood to continue to be flooded to me is just an abdication of what city government is supposed to do we deal with police fire roads flooding okay that's the the the basics of local government it's like if you do a Waffle House you don't do waffles it's like if you do Mel's hot dogs you don't got a single hot dog okay and if we leave this neighborhood uh to continue to be flooded either through operation of delay or anything else or we kick that can down the road right I think we're doing that I think it's ultimately an abdication um this is we have to not set goalposts on this that I think are inconsistent with what we're dealing with we're dealing with design at this point that's very very limited there's a lot of different engagement and movement Etc that can happen during that time um this is the dating stage you still got to move in together you still got to get engaged you still got to get married okay this is or however you do it this is that point um moving forward for this we need to have continued engagement Comm continued community outreach you know no matter what happens on this but again I gave my word to the the neighborhood when I met with them right that I would move forward on something without further delay we need to do something that makes sense for this neighborhood uh to provide relief we can be Innovative like we talked about with contracts with providing um uh uh uh assistance Etc to businesses during this time and we'll certainly have time for that but again the bug stops with us and whether we do nothing and flooding continues to happen or the aftermath of the financial and emotional a station associated with a flooding for this neighborhood the Buck's going to stop with us there and if we do something and it causes some challenges on Howard the buck will also stop with us either way we're going to get heat um we should all and I think we all are going to do that regardless of how we vote take the heat for doing what we think is right that's what I'm going to do and I know that's what we're all going to do one way or another thank you council member herch Miranda thank you um I want to thank the public for all the emails and all the comments today I thank people for putting the time in I thank people for writing I read every email I understand I really do appreciate the gravity of this we are here today because of for decades um councils and administrations before us have kicked the can down the road I mean hurricane Milton clearly showed us that the can kicking has to stop there will never be a good time for this project the best and quite frankly cheapest time for this project was decades ago was when I'm Sor decades ago decades ago when this was shown to be a problem I cannot sit here and say that it's okay to spend 20 plus million dollars extra to take this off of Howard Avenue where the current outfalls already exist we're doing a lot of money saving doing that and it's as mainly because the money is needed in other areas of the city uh that receive similar flooding and of course everyone looks at councilman Vieira but quite frankly folks and Forest Hills in uh the university area saw flooding that we never expected um the Parkland Estates and palmaia Pines uh are actually very blessed and lucky that this project is already ready to go Forest Hills and University area will be waiting so much longer simply for a project to begin because we haven't even considered a project there this project was developed because of the history of flooding in this area so for me that is a big part of this as well is managing our money well because we need to take them any extra money and go to the rest of the city this is a part of our city and it's very important but there are other parts of the city who flooded as well and we need to use our resources wisely so that we can reach as many parts of the city is possible there is a cost to doing nothing the folks who flooded the businesses as well as the houses during Milton are paying that price right now I've heard I've read this emails I know you all have about people who have had to put their life savings because they didn't have flood insurance we're hearing those stories who knows which places will flood in the next storm or the next as sea level rise happens as more building occurs it may not be limited to where it is now it will expand because it expanded this time I did vote to to not approve a plan that will go down Bristol Avenue um I did that I owned the vote but I voted before seeing what Milton did to businesses and homes in the area I walked into the people's houses I saw their lives on the curbs Milton changed me so for me I I am asking the engineers to determine the best route to move the greatest amount of storm water in the shortest amount of time I do not want the engineers to consider traffic utilities businesses houses trees or anything else I want them to Simply tell me what is the best hydrological and topographical way for water to move to the Bay while connecting to our current storm infrastructure that's all I'm asking I don't disagree with some of my council members that might but but this this is this is the distilled issue right now how do we move the storm water best fastest to to get it to the Bay this project will come back to us after the design phase for approval for construction phase contract if the engineers cannot come up here and tell me that they looked at only the best best and fastest way to move water regardless of other variables I will not vote for moving that contract forward along with design I want kimmons to come back with a fully developed shop Howard plan created with input from Howard Avenue businesses AB budding neighborhood groups City departments um the Soho business Alliance and anyone else necessary to help businesses weather this project as smoothly as possible I want to fully formed Plan before we sign the contract does not mean the plan cannot be amended as we go but a fully formed plan executed explained by kimens and their Associates this project has pitted neighbor against neighbor as with all infrastructure projects some will be asked to sacrifice more than others some will be slowed by traffic and road closures some will not be able to access their driveways businesses will suffer but this is a long-term solution to the increased threat of climate change and flooding how can I vote against a project that will prevent homes and businesses from flooding and catastrophic losses I am happy to walk the road with every single person I have experience from all sides of Southeast seminal height storm water project which is not finished what I cannot do is Kick this any further so uh I'm that's that's thank you very much yeah council member Miranda thank you very much I uh I have some agreement with most of what was said and some I don't particularly care however when you look at Milton uh Milton was a Le lesson changer it has taught us that the future is coming with these kind of storms but Milton had help at help from Atlanta and he had five inches in between or five inches after you had a bunch of rain that even before Milton got here now today we're in this room maybe there 70 80 100 of us in the room what would have happened if Milton would have come 20 mi North I got news for us we wouldn't be here that's right so that lesson hasn't been learned much we would not be here period because the storm surge would have been different instead of taking water out it would have water in the problem with all that is these outfalls what do they go to the Bay am I correct yes you can't put them any other way so what happens when you have a high tide in the bay and you're trying to take the water down south I I'm not an engineer but the volume of water coming in is 1,200 million times greater than the water going out when it collides it's going to come right back where it came from so we're we're addressing something that will work for a period of time in history just like a previous one worked for a previous time in history however we don't change how we do things Milton would not be a lesson learner it be a disaster for all cities and we haven't addressed that problem and I'm not trying to address it today having enough problems listening to what's happening and compassion all the feeling that the seven the eight the mayor yourself everybody here has for each other but how do we solve this problem without anyone getting hurt financially or otherwise simply you can't you can't satisfy both sides impossible with what we have to work with because it does not work without cohesive unit of a neighborhood and I'm not blaming the neighborhood I'm blaming the situation that we're in to solve this problem so until that problem resolved you can have all the engineers 50 drawings 100 people coming in from both sides and you're still going to have what the same problem so I'm ready to take something to do something with it and and you know what I read this here and I'm not pro or anti- mayor or anything else I don't see the mayor's name here I see Mr Clint didn't in my name here I see uh Henderson and her tax name here but the mayor had nothing to do with this it was us the seven of us I don't know what she does it doesn't but when I have a problem I go see her and I tell her what I like it I don't like directly face to face Uno a Uno with no regrets of who she is that's how I handle my business but this has got to come to some resolution between the same two parties that are here or if not this is going to be a Houdini of something how we do this I'm not afraid to vote one way I'm not afraid to hurt my reputation I'm not afraid to say that I'm right and you're wrong wrong I'm not going to do that I just want the problem solved on both sides of the issues Burns is one of my favorite restaurants right there in the first room every time I not made my expensive neighbors and my friends have parties I go with them but it really inexpensive because you get your soup your dessert I dessert is upstairs but you get your soup your salad your filet and your baked potato for the same price you go somewhere else at least another $5 $20 more it doesn't make sense for us to continue this any further if they want to hire their engineer they're certainly entitled to hire the engineer if the engineer wants to confront and have a confrontation with your not a confrontation but a meeting of the mindes I don't know what's going to come out but we have to do something so they can hire their Engineers so we can Pro get this thing going one way or the other we'll be here three years you have five mil we'll still be talking about the same thing it ain't going to solve it we have to come to an end no matter if they like each other or don't like each other that the gentleman if that's what he wants to do do that we have to come and do something time is money on both sides of this issue that's all thank you Mr council member Henderson um thank you chair um first of all for the record Charlie I've never been to Burns and well I'll take you one day never I've been to Burns I've heard about it in the dessert room I did take the kids on a field trip to epan for Hospitality uh I I don't have the emotional connection um outside of it being a community issue that a neighborhood lost a lot and that there is a lot of sacrifice um that's going to have to take place and for me it's as simple as the request for you know item 58 after all of the work that's been put in um on behalf of the city thank you very much I've learned a lot and I appreciate your approach to this um for the community I have't finished reading all the I've been reading emails and listening um for um a while I'm still getting through emails and um and I appreciate your input as well for me it's as simple as this that we should approve the agreement for the design build initial services for $7.7 million because it gets us started and so everyone is thinking what street is it going to come on and D you know I mean everyone is like worried about the street choice and that is fair and for me it is the professional approach of the experts whenever they decide and I think I said this at the last meeting whatever they decide I'm going to pay attention to that and I'm going to do my best to support that and also look for the underlying underbelly of how do we resolve some of the things that herk said that I don't want to repeat cuz I appreciate those comments as well um but we have to get started and getting started is just approving the agreement um and going there first and letting the information come back with the community input but also the expert opinions about the best most efficient way to get the done in the shortest amount of time that I do believe is fair and I know that someone's going to get hurt someone's going to be upset because of the inconvenience of what is going to put people through um and I understand that but if we don't get started and someone decides to sue us or get your experts to counter what our experts are saying it's just going to delay the problem and I'm going to support approving the agreement for the design bill for 7.7 to9 million um that's what I would like to see so so that progress can be made um in this area I have looked at a lot of pictures um one of the things that I appreciate about this particular South Tampa Community is you all know how to fight you have a lot of passion you you have a lot of organization and I do appreciate that I really really really do and so with that being said I would like for us to just move forward with the design and take away the actual thought about what street is it going to be on right now we need to get started and let the ex experts at least present it in that capacity first before it goes into the phase where we actually have to keep approving things um but this is just getting started the ne we're responsible as a council for what comes after this after the design build is being presented to us that's how it works right Vic they got to come back to us and then we get to ask more questions like we're doing today and then you all are going to fill up upstairs downstairs and we going to listen to you for five hours so it's it's it this process it still has a ways to go but we have to get started and that's what I want to support is approving the contract for kimens thank you thank you thank you very much and that concludes round one um no we go again if if you want to go again I forgot to mention and I can't believe it slipped my mind um you know my grandmother's first business was in palmaia Pines in like 1967 on MC Dillan Swan which is now the parking lot to Four Rivers the building was demolished for the parking lot and my family background is small business small scale not Burns uh number of employes employes not uh 50 employees just family members um and you know they over the years they've had to deal with all sorts of stuff my grandfather's been dead for years but over the years it's been health issues covid financial crisis and they were able to manage those things good or bad you know having to lay everybody off because the money just wasn't coming in but they were able to manage that in this case with the Howard AV new businesses because everything we heard a lot of testimonies today and gotten a lot of emails it's larger scale I wouldn't know how to manage that uh it's easy to manage you know your mom and your dad and a sibling in a small business but they have the live the the the the the lives of two 300 people at an institution um you know Co was horrible my dad told me if you can survive Co you can you can survive everything you know I mean the the world stopped and they had to manage to do that they have to manage a lot of things this is different because it's it's blocking access to their business even if it's done on a block by block uh basis um it's so impactful that many businesses may not recover we don't know the financial impact because uh you have to see how much revenue they generate a day how many people they employ if they're working on tips you know if business is slow I mean in college all my friends worked in restaurants and it would be the best nights where you know I made a 100 bucks tonight and nights that they were so slow they made 10 bucks maybe they would be able to pay the rent at the end of the month you know or their car payment God forbid they had you know car breakdown or something even little things um Can greatly impact a business Howard Avenue is a very important Corridor it's one of the busiest most important arteries you know business-wise commercial corridors in the city of Tampa people come specifically to Tampa for some of the locations there you know there was raised about 120 uh continuance I brought up the man that had the brain tumor that went to all the Specialists all the neuros neur neurosurgeons and they told them we can't do anything for you until somebody said you know I'm willing to operate on you and they save their life in this case I think they're asking for the 120 days just to before we approve because it's going to be $65 million maybe more I know we're only at 7.7 today before we spend this money let's look at every single option on the table and as you mentioned what's 120 days I asked you about palmaia Pines and you said we're looking at the streets we're looking at the the the paving we're we're doing those things now regardless that's one a a very big concern of mine because again the first neighborhood I visited and all those flooded homes and and the people that I'm in most communication with just happened to be north of swan before we spend all this money what is the harm in 120 days because this could be the the project that fixes everything maybe everything is right here but we have to take into consideration all sides council members have mentioned you know not everybody's going to be happy people are going to sue people are going to fight the neighborhood this is the most divisive issue that I've ever seen at the very least we should offer um the decency to uh postpone this for 120 days let them I mean they can come back all sides and say look there's no other options we failed but at least we tried before we move forward my concern is we approved this project today you say there are many bites at the Apple and I believe there are but once you approve a contract once you get into the nitty-gritty once the first shovel hits the ground there's going to be that excuse of well we already started we've already decided I've went through this cont contract multiple times and it's Howard Howard Howard Howard Howard again If I Were King for the day and I had a magic wand I could find another solution because again I mentioned at the last me you know I don't want to hurt anybody someone's going to get hurt in this but I mean you have something I I saw something like 1,700 employees could be affected I think we can do something meaningful we can address the flooding without causing so much uh of an impact uh councilman Carlson talks about short-term and long-term Solutions I believe there are things that we can do now in preparation before the rainy season starts maintenance has been been a big issue I was there in 2016 to vote for that storm water assessment one of the toughest votes I ever had to uh take but it provided the funding and the money that we needed to address storm water and flooding throughout the city I gave you I with my vote uh the opportunity to say hey now we have a storm water maintenance assessment the money is there let's let's look at every option what's 120 days if we're doing pal you know work in palac of pin we're looking at other things so much can be done before we go what I hope is not the point of no return may I please respond to that what's the point of 120 days the point of this contract in front of you is so that the city can have the design build team on board to advise us so the next 120 days that have been asked for this team can participate with us and engage on these questions they're being paid to do just that but what will give us more resources in the next 120 days is to have this team on board to assist us with these conversations we've hired them to do the design build anyways so why not have them be participating in these discussions but if we don't approve the contracts they're on a sideline we're having a separate discussion and then bringing in a design Builder that has been asked to design and build this solution and you're absolutely right right now it is Howard but it's a product of years of looking at it three different Consultants this isn't just City staff it's three different Consultants that have looked at at it and the geology and the hydrology of the Basin hasn't changed that much between 2017 and now the issues are the same and so we feel like we've put the best solution forward we understand that the business Community has engaged a consultant from Orlando to uh look into this further for the next 120 days allow us to have the designer on board to do that and have those conversations with them the design build team is right here I want us to exhaust all options everybody to exhaust all options before we go past the point of no return thank you very much I commit that yeah council member Carl yeah I just want to make my final comments and it's not questions um just just statements um it's obvious this is going to pass and um I think everybody knows my opposition to this for many many reasons which I'll mention here um I just want to explain why I'm voting no um first of all divisiveness about the way this whole thing was handled it's not good um and and we talk about let's just start the design phase the problem was the way the first year or two of this was handled had these other Consultants had real public input where you listen to the public and put public factors into it which every major engineering project in the world handles um every big project handles listening to the public in this case we didn't we just looked at it and decided be for a few reasons that we want this route and this solution I've talked to several other Engineers outside the city and I get different feedback the problem is even in the RFQ it has one route we say that there are options but there's only one route really um if this project was to do design for all solutions all opportunities all routes I would vote for it in a second because we need Solutions the problem is that the process did not include that and sure there were meetings that were held but Monday was the first real big substance of public meeting where everybody was invited council member Vieira talks about how we're dating before we get married the reality here is that we're we're saying let's get married Let's Get Married let's get married right away I just met you but let's get married and uh most of the public just found out about this in the last week let's get married and then a year from now if you don't like us we can get a divorce and that's not the way we should handle thing we should do the dating first many of you watching or or here in the room won't remember a project called toilet to tap uh that this Administration presented to us 5 years ago uh but they had engineers and studies and they said uh you know here's here's the only solution we have it's an experimental solution from another country and we'll we'll move forward with this this is a great thing we need this uh water quality from other sources isn't good um we're going to run out of water within the next couple years after that by forcing the administration and the engineers and the Departments to do Alternatives analysis and getting outside opinions and getting Sierra Club and other experts National and international experts involved we just proved all of that and we ended up city council shot down that project three times we may end up going back to some hybrid version of it but the point is that this city council has turned down lots of projects that the engineers and the consultants and others have pushed it turns out the experimental idea was not even a good idea it didn't even work but here's my biggest problem with this we have a duty we've all visited these neighborhoods we have a duty to solve their problem they're not saying protect us four years from now they're saying protect us now uh but the all the testimony we've heard is that really this is not going to protect anybody for four years maybe a little bit in in the middle but certainly not even the next year because nothing's going to even hit the ground in the next year so everybody in Parkland State's palia they're going to finish fixing their houses and next week or next month or next hurricane season it rains and they're going to get flooded again we're not protecting them at all if you ask me to protect them if if you could give me a solution today that would protect them from the next rain I would vote for an a second tell me the price of it I'll vote for it get me Aqua fences like tgh has I want to protect their houses but this is not going to protect them for three or four years so the next time they rain they're going to come say how come you guys haven't done anything and the only thing we can say is well the experts told us we can't do anything my experts I talked to say there are lots of things we can do like removing the concrete out of found Park also we've got email testimony maps and other things that show that after it's done after we spent the 65 or whatever million it's not going to help in a hurricane this was designed with old data there's new data now that shows it's absolutely true and I don't want to argue it is absolutely true and and I don't just so the public knows the administration uh sometimes when they disagree with something they ask staff to argue with us and I'm not asking you to argue I'm asking you to give give you the facts I've seen the maps we've had other people look at the maps we've seen the routes we've seen the the the the storm waterer uh Maps if if you were if you're planning on on on handling you you said even last week it won't handle 11 and a half inches of rain Milton hits again in this with this is done and it's still going to flood this neighborhood I uh more than 5 and a half inches hit is still going to flood both of these neighborhoods it's our responsibility to find a solution that works if it costs 100 million and it prevents them from getting flooded then that's fine but if we spend 65 million it doesn't protect them in the next four years and it doesn't protect them afterwards then we've made a terrible decision we wasted taxpayer money it's not helping palmaia Pines because they really weren't including the plan there are no short-term plans the route is set even though it said it's not it's using old Tech old data we could spend a few hundred thousand and get a better plan and most importantly the couny official said this morning council member Vier said why don't we partner with the county on their analysis the county official said this morning you should wait before you spend any money until you get our analysis because our analysis is going to show what you should do we need a systemic solution that fixes the problem not one that just makes happy people happy that we checked the box thank you may I respond real quick all I would like to say is we will use the latest data when we begin design that is when plus sea level rise is required to be considered which requires the latest data as part of the $10 million grant that we've got from FD and as far as what Mr horwell said from the county this morning I mean I may I give you an opportunity to speak to that or council member do do we are we going to have a debate or or can we just make our statement this this is the final round but this is relevant because you've had lots of chance to present your data and you you we I interrupt you earlier and I would app I didn't interrupt you earlier in debate with you I'd appreciate not having a debate now you presented what you wanted I presented what I wanted and let's please move on you had you had Monday I didn't go so you guys could present whatever you wanted without anybody saying I influence you can say it when it's I'd just like to share that after this meeting we went out with Mr uh horwell and the county team councilman V Vieira was there to take a picture with them because he had invited them to speak out here in front of me and other County uh staff members he asked Mr hor horwell did you mean the South Howard project when he said that and he said no I did not and I can attest to that because the South Howard project is in a watershed that is not connected to unincorporated Hillsboro County and related to any of that coord ination that we're going to do in any way so I think the broader point and I and and I don't mean to speak for him at all but what uh uh Mr horwell was trying to say the broader point he was trying to make is we need to take a holistic look at this to understand all of the solutions we need I would separate that from this project because we have taken a holistic look at this Watershed and put forth the best possible solution after studied consideration thank you very much council member Miranda you had your microphone no thank you I just want to it'll never get fixed back in the 90s 100% back in the 90s when gri was mayor we met in his office downstairs at the other building we had Engineers it was myself Greco the City attorney we went all over the South area how can we save it and the answer was you got to put a plane 30 Mi North you got to pump the water up because the water doesn't move north very easy you got to buy built yourself a reservoir about 10 billion gallons and you got to fill it you drain it up but where you going to get the $6 billion that was then that was 30 years ago so it could be solved I'm sure you do an engineer can solve it however we're not talking about that we're talking about making a savings of what we have for the next 20 or 30 years that's what the normal thing is and everything that power plants and all that they got to regenerate themselves every 20 or 30 years so does this operation this is not going to last forever I know and I'm telling you the truth there a pitcher I never threw a fast ball all with curves because I didn't have a fast ball but here I'm not throwing curve balls I'm throwing fast balls you can see them coming so what I'm saying is this will work and when you mention toilet to tap I don't know what the has got to do with storm water but I give up number one number two it's incumbent upon all of us whether I like it or not to try to fix the best that we can what we're in public service that's what it's all about and that's what we're trying to get at if there going to be ramification so someone may not like it they surely will is there will be something that we work together to solve to minimize things yes we can so among all those things together you have to realize that it can be done and they mention the Sierra Club but I got news for everybody the Sierra Club in California okay theirs evidently they don't talk to each other so what I'm saying is what's the beef remember the old lady what the beef how can we solve this problem we can't solve it by saying there is no beef there's a beef here and it's going to get better and worse Better or Worse the neighborhood supports all of us the attorneys and the individual like yourself and others or the professional we have to listen to you I base it on everything I hear from both sides not just one side like I said no curve balls just straight fast balls that's it and I didn't have one okay Council thank you very much and thank you Mr B for mentioning that I I i' inquired on that because when I heard that I I I don't like to ask public questions to questions I don't know the answer to right it's just whatever but but yeah I wanted to clarify that cuz I went H Okay this may change my perspective on this so so I'm glad you mentioned that um again I'm going to restate what I said before which is Milton for me in the experience of going to all the homes that I've gone to in South Tampa North Tampa Town and Country Etc changed everything for me in terms of my perspective on this and and and so many other things um it's it's this is part of what and councilwoman herac said it very well which is this is part of what we're going to eventually want for other communities like those in North Tampa that's what the county Master plan's about um and and that we were briefed on this morning and different things um this is the the the end goal I guess if you will for a lot of it but this is the beginning this is the beginning and if this passes by one vote by the way this is a beginning that hangs by one vote I don't want to say a thread by by one vote and if things aren't done according to how folks want then if it passes by one go maybe five to two six to one who knows but it but it hangs very uh carefully um we're a long way from Creed Three we're at Rocky one so this is the beginning not the end so to speak um so that's all and by the way in terms of short-term Solutions um I'm glad to have a discussion on short-term Solutions if there are any let's get them done immediately I mean like immediately but accomplishing that we can do a number of things at one time and I've voted for motions in terms of short-term Solutions I've made a myself um and we'll continue to go down that route thank you thank you very much and I appreciate the Rocky baloa and Bruce Springsteen references sir anybody else I sh my council member Henderson yes yeah if it's council's pleasure for housekeeping purposes if it's council's pleasure to move forward with this uh a solution would be uh to address the issue of an inconsistency to take the um U motion that uh was made initially on June 20th 2024 file number cm2 24- 6831 to amend that motion and strike the Clause that says and that and that Council will not vote or fund a plan that places said vaults on PR Bristol Avenue that would make it consistent with the contract and that would solve any inconsistencies with council's policy can we hold off on that discussion till we're finished with this discussion oh I'm sorry okay I council member yeah we're still in the talking around council member Anderson thank you uh Vic I just want to make sure that you've said everything that you want to say is there anything else that you would like to add no ma'am thank you thanks uh council member herch you had your microphone on I moov the resolution we have a motion in a second before we vote you know I would support 120-day continuance again I want to exhaust all options before we go beyond the pass the point of no uh return because this is a lot of money and it's not really about the money it's about the impact it's about will it work how many people will be affected we've already discussed that through public comment and all the emails because it's going to affect a lot of people good and bad you know what can we do in the short term it's always about since the day I got here it's all about spend the money spend the money it's going to cost Millions what can we do give me the shovel what can I do no we can't do that no we can't everything is no it's all about spending the taxpayer dollar and it's always a huge amount the storm water assessment was a quarter of a billion dollars which this is part of but why can't we do things cheaper why can't we do why can't we look at all different solutions and this is what frustrates me with politicians me being one but it's always about everything is expensive everything that goes to the government is so expensive and everything is known unless we award this contract and we do this I have serious concern concerns about this I want to help the people that were flooded Milton was horrible I hope to have never experienced it and I'm glad that it wasn't a category five because I heard that two days before we're preparing for a Katrina likee situation and I said it's over and luckily we didn't get that unfortunately it's happened in other places it's devastating homes have been ruined I've been in those homes people have lost everything people's life savings have been wiped out businesses are going to close businesses are going to be affect Ed I don't know if this is going to work at the end of the day it's going to be years out before we make these decisions a little bit more time it's not going to change anything maybe it will maybe it won't but to have all opportunities on the table what's 120 days the rainy season doesn't start till the summer construction on this isn't going to start until Way Beyond that if everything goes through a lot of people are going to be affected good and bad here there's a lot at stake here it's a lot of money I was looking at the uh the times editorial you know we should take a pause on this apparently you know I some of us agree with some of us don't and that's fine but before we make these big decisions and award these contracts we need to exhaust all options and make sure that we're doing the right thing we have a motion in a second anybody else have any discussion council member Clint Denon yes um I just want to reiterate what I previously said and that's that's because again this is so important to so many elements of this community that if we pass this resolution today and I know you and I have had private conversations that you're going to take these to the contractors that we're going we're we're going to look at these alternate routes and is they're going to re-evaluate them again we're going to look at the fact look at a route that doesn't include Howard look at a proposal that goes does not go through the historic neighborhood of Parkland Estates I want to make sure remind everybody that that's a historic neighborhood so anything that we do there that impacts a historic neighborhood it' be like going through hide park or other historic neighborhoods things that we hold very dear in the city is historic preservation you know so much of what we've done with overlay districts and I mean how many rules do we have with the Architectural Review commission and how much money do we how much money does the private sector spend to jump through our Hood hurdles to comply with our rules reference historic districts and I just want to make sure that we are not you know we're taking that gravitas of of of what that community means to the city of Tampa um so I mean I'm not again all these things have to weigh and I know that we've you and I have had these conversations that you going to do that that we look at a route that goes down Swan Avenue and goes to Howard so we have all of those options on the table um I do believe that the the council has spoken reference brist because I think it's a very unique and very specific um want need and desire and uh I also want to reiterate that I hope that you take and I hope this Council supports it as well and I believe that they do that this project we need to expand the scope of this project to include to make sure that the palace Pines neighborhood and the adjacent streets is accommodated in this in a meaningful way that is our commitment that nothing in the contract precludes it nothing precludes it but I just want to make sure as we move forward as that we are we are willing as a city to expand the scope of this to include because this neighborhood and these businesses along you know these doctor's offices and such you know they they've suffered a lot of loss too and I want to make sure that we're we're taking that into account um so you know with that being said I'm willing to take that Leap of Faith with with with you Mr Bay and and with the city of knowing that you're going to take that you know if we pass this today you're going to take all those wants needs and desires into account as you move forward with this project and I look forward to seeing the you know productive moves as you know in the in the coming months and then the coming years to resolve this very important issue so thank you council member Henderson herte did were you was your mic on first yeah it was it was just to your point um regarding the 120 days or four months I don't see there being any significant difference between now and 120 days four months from now um I just think we should move forward so I may I just want to say I disagree with you but I want to say it nicely and publicly cuz I'm so nice and I know council member H thank you uh I'm glad you brought up the historic neighborhood because Southeast semal height storm project went through a historic neighborhood we learned some serious lessons from that um so that's really what I'm that's my commitment to the community as a whole is I I went through the southeast semal height storm water project from before I was a council member just as a citizen um helping organize the meetings you know joining Council and becoming more active I've toured the site it was for for people who weren't here the last time I spoke on this it would it got so bad that we had to have the contractor here every two weeks to tell us about what was going on so the commitment we've learned a lot from that I expect that we will not have that problem of having to bring the contractor up every two weeks but will be doing you know we can do monthly tours I'll do that um but I definitely want and I think that's one of the things that when we talk to the contractors you know what did we learn from the southeast seminal height stormw water project and going through historic areas so for me um I have a little more faith uh in that because we learned a lot and here's the thing they that company was coming in front of us every two week weeks I don't really hear from them anymore I don't I don't hear from the community that things have improved so we we'll keep an eye on it we have to that's part of our job but I I I just I just want to say that I I do believe that once the project gets started we have learned enough and the idea that we're doing all this planning ahead of time which was not done right with Southeast seminal Heights it kind of was learn as you go and that was that was rough council member Carlson and then council member clenon wanted 10 second yeah just just quickly um uh Mr Bey you're obviously going to have the chance to move forward and keep all the promises that you and your team have made um I'm still going to vote against it for the concerns I mentioned a minute ago but I would uh and you have kemmons and kems is a great team when kemmons works on something I never get any complaints at all and mcdill 48 was incredibly um uh uh uh fruitful and listening to the public um the community is walking into this with a whole bunch of concerns I hope that you are able to look at all all all design Solutions all routes if you honestly do that and take the community through a process um the goal should be when you come back that you get seven votes and nobody complaining in the public the the goal here has got to be consensus in the community we've got to all work together to find something that so I'm against voting for this but let's not have division when this comes back before us let's have unification of the community work together thank you counil I I just I've written something down I forgot to mention I just want to say because I've heard it a couple times about Milton changing things I want to scratch my head how did Milton change something we've lived in the city of Tampa we've climate change rising sea levels we have I mean it is this is what the day before Milton really isn't any different than the day after built and as government officials I hope as we move forward and I know I know councilman her and I are almost sympatic on these issues as far as how we build how we develop how we're doing lot splits I mean so we are the land use people here I hope everybody remembers these lessons when we go forth and we start and we we we deal with these issues as we're developing the city of Tampa uh of making sure that we're resilient making sure that we take these type of issues into account in every decision we make his Council in in and how we're approving P these neighborhood PDS and again it's not going to get any better it's just going to get worse council member V thank you yeah no and thank you for that councilman clinten and what what I say is that it changes urgency and quite frankly intensity um tomorrow I'm going to go visit four people um all workingclass people in North Tampa who have lost everything have no flood insurance and they don't have much anywhere to go one fell is living in a trailer Saturday I'm going to go visit three more um I I I don't know how many I've visited at their home and so it's not in terms of policy it's in terms of urgency and intensity um I I that's it yeah it's it's uh yeah probably about 10 this weekend and it's uh that's my view thank you very much we have a motion in a second a roll call vote did we have a point of order we had something to resolve first you don't well my reading of it if it's council's pleasure not to do that today uh we C I'll bring it back up again when it comes time to vote on a fund that when it comes back to council this is not your final opportunity just to clarify this is for items 58 and 59 both okay you want to take them together okay we have a motion in a second and a roll call vote Clint Denon yes Henderson yes Vieira yes Miranda yes Carlson herac yes and manako no motion carried with Carlson and maniso voting no thank you very much all right item number 60 Mr chair this is uh Mr be unless there somebody else can't we just move we have about this I'm sorry if I can if we could ask people to be quiet please on the way out should we continue if we can no this I believe Mr chairman I don't know if it came to your attention but I believe there's a gentleman here who's in from out of town on this and he would like the opportunity to have it heard today if he can do it briefly I suspect he's prepared in the back it's the gentleman in the back I understand Mr McCrae is here and um as long as we have people moving out quietly maybe we can have that done let's get it done fast all right hello Mr McCrae welcome to Tampa City Council good afternoon Cedric McCrae interim community redevelopment area manager uh here from for item 60 to provide an update and answer any questions that you all have um representatives from lamb could not be here this afternoon due to some conflicts and I'm here to just kind of briefly discuss the project and uh to answer any questions you may have moving forward any questions for Mr McCrae and there's a there's someone here you said that was from out of town or no I was not aware of that until I'm sorry I heard could you just I think the the the concern in the community is that it's not moving forward but I think you have an update that it is moving forward yes it is scheduled to work and start schedu to start in uh January of 2025 and then how long will it take any any other data that you can sorry to make you wait so long just to say that no no no no no no completion date yet uh anticipated but uh yes work is scheduled to start in January of next year what do you mean start this the best show all right we have do we have a motion in a second motion from Council Clint second Council mirand all in favor I any oppos all right thank you Mr M thank you item number 66 there was a request to have somebody here um staff will be present I don't know who from hello Mr Moi is it you yes sir come on up and Mr Brody is here too okay sir go ahead thank you chair good afternoon Council Tony mki Parks and Recreation director uh I'm here follow up on a motion uh for some information about the uh vending and Catering at the Tampa River Center and to discuss potential policy updates to that uh this was originally scheduled for a workshop in September that was uh interrupted by some weather um but just a real brief history on this this uh the River Center opened in 2018 and we went out uh with a RFQ to find vendors for for catering services there we we emulated the private market and the structure that uh many other venues used uh when we're establishing our fees and establishing our approach to having preferred vendors uh we uh went back to the market in 22 and that uh resulted in the current list of preferred vendors that expire in Fe or excuse me April of 2025 uh with concerns about opportunity and um equity and and just basic kind of adaptation to the uh activities and the events that the community wanted there's been a request to to see what we could do to to be more inclusive and and add some more people uh lengthen the bench if you will so what I am here to kind of propose and I'm I'm kind of really curtailing some of the information here is uh uh moving forward we are not going to go through an RFP process uh it that locks Us in for too long with too few vendors so we're going to open up the the process to allow for yearround uh approvals of vendors and and Caterers so um there will be uh guidelines of course they have to meet uh proper licensing they would have to go through uh agree to the rules of the facility as well as go through an orientation for the River Center um this will allow uh people to bring their own vendors in and we we would help guide them through that process we would try to convey that information very publicly very transparently to um avoid some of the the perceived conflicts and and just kind of um clunky adaptations as we we've grown with the River Center and now kind of understand what those operations and the community's needs are um I'll kind of leave it there to ask questions but our timeline on this is beginning of January to really start rolling this out to to broadcast it with with all the details there's a few things to still work through but we're we're very close and then uh be able to bring people into the fold as those other contracts expire and once they get on that list as long as they maintain their statuses uh they'd be able to stay there and operate C council member Henderson this was your original motion did you have any questions are you satisfied with the report no we had an extensive meeting this week um Mr attorney Brody I am very happy with the um end result of what's going to be coming forward and I don't want to belabor the point um I really really appreciate it it provides an opportunity for more people to service JBL council member Carlson no council member Carlson yeah I just want to say thank you council member Henderson this is a great idea great Insight thank you to uh Mr M and staff for being flexible on this it's this is a great thing for the community thank you all right thank you very much and thank you for for your patience today so that concludes that I don't think there's anything else on the agenda can we hold new business until tonight what about 68 68 was uh resched yeah right receive motion to rece file from council member Henderson we have a second I do I've got I just need okay all right all I needed to do was move the things I said I was going to move this morning um so I'm going to reschedule two of my inperson staff reports scheduled for December 19th 2024 to February 20th 2025 it's staff to work on the city council with the city Council budget analyst to create a five-minute inperson report to present an overview of the recently completed $45 million Tampa Convention Center renovation project and staff to present a 5-minute in-person report on an overview of the soon Tobe completed lower peninsula Watershed plan project we have a motion from coun yes sir wait counc okay council member herac with a motion second council member Clen Denon all in favor I any oppos and then one more I just want to present accommodation to the women's history committee at the women's History Month annual celebration on March 4th 2025 at the Tampa History m center we have a motion from council member her council member Henderson all in favor I any oppose anything else nope council member do you need to make it right now or yes sir right now real quick I would like to make please turn your microphone I would like to make the motion to add a by annual Capal Improvement project report and presentation of Workshop meeting February 27th of 2025 we have a motion from council member Miranda second from council member herch all in favor anything else sir all right motion to receive and file from council member Henderson second from council member Miranda all in favor we are we'll be back at 50:01 p.m. yeah we I'm going take a trip I'll be back in two days [Music]