[2:43] Chair: You're never you're never shy yes I am that's right okay welcome everyone uh this is the Planning Commission meeting for August 14th uh roll call we got Hema Johnson and benkin here we're all here uh can I get approval of the agenda [3:00] Commissioner Jay Benke: I'd like to make a motion to approve the agenda [3:04] Chair: Motion by benkin second by Johnson to approve the agenda is there any discussion all in favor opposed motion carries uh approval of the minutes [3:33] Commissioner Jay Benke: so move [3:35] Commissioner Diane Johnson: oh second [3:37] Chair: motion by Johnson second by banking to approve the minutes of July 10th is there any further discussion all in favor aye aye O's motion carries public input there is none so we'll just move on to the first public hearing what's the public hearing for Cannon Falls Eda hardwood Estates rezone planned unit development and preliminary Platt Laura could you uh Enlighten us on that [4:05] Laura Qualey: good evening um yes back in December the Cannon Falls Economic Development Authority did purchase 41.4 Acres of property um known as hardwood Estates from the previous developer and the intent is to develop the property for housing the Cannon Falls obviously the population has kind of been stagnant for the last 20 years so uh before you this evening we have a preliminary plot and the public hearing is also to rezone the property from an R2 which is a single family density is what it is currently we'd like to rezone it to an R3 which is a medium density which would allow for dual family homes so like Twin Homes but then we'd also like to make it a planned unit development also so that it would allow for a variety of housing and it would also then accommodate um the different lot sizes because maybe some of the Lots due to the style of the development might not meet the exact minimum requirements but the Pud would allow for that so I do have some slides if you'll allow me to walk through those or do we open it up for public hearing first [5:22] Chair: I think you should do that go through first okay [5:27] Laura Qualey: well they toggle to it oh there they go okay so for um reference uh the the parcel of property is going to be just across from the Cannon Falls area school campus so we've got Highway 19 running here this would be saint ansgar's this would be our savior's church this would be the Cannon Falls School campus and then this area right here would be the Cannon Falls Cemetery so this would be the new Highway 20 or County 24 connection so this is our 40 acre parcel that we're talking about and like I said the Eda owns the property we did buy it from Glenn mulva Hill on the contract for deed and whks is our city engineer and they're guiding us on this project and Jesse Preston also works for whks and he's the one that helped us with the development plan and the concept so um just a little bit of background like I just stated we're asking for a rezone from an R2 single family to an R3 medium density which allows for that dual family style unit the whole development will not be Town Homes we'll have a mix of single family and dual family and just in relation to the city comprehensive plan it does fit I know that in your packet that I did include this map from the strategy or from the comprehensive plan and it shows I did Circle that area that parcel of property was identified and again this was from 2005 so 20 plus years or almost 20 years ago this was identified as a priority area for development for housing and growth so we kind of checked that box right there the project is will accommodate the existing public services and won't overburden them so our water and sewer infrastructure will be able to accommodate this development of 106 units or 106 Lots the traffic for phase one which I'll show you in just a couple different slides will also not cause any extra burden on the traffic requiring any other roadways uh we're looking at and again I'll show you that in another slide but 72nd Avenue way that comes off of Highway 19 right now will be able to accommodate the phase one of the project which will be 29 Lots will be the first phase and again it also conforms to the current land use per the comp plan so um so this is the overall development and I do have on the left hand side I do have it broken down into what the different phases are now keep in mind that phase one on the bottom left this phase one here so this is 72nd Avenue way coming in so these houses this is the most recent house that was just finished by the Cannon Falls housing construction class and just sold a couple weeks ago so this roadway will is where our development will continue and it will come down and then it will start with this cul-de-sac area so again the orange I cut off the Legends just so that I could make the map as big as I possibly could but the orange on this preliminary plot are actually going to be the Dual or the twin home units or twin home lots so that's why they look a little bit more narrow and then the pink are going to be the single family lots and I will show you in a slider to what uh some of those are going to look like or what those uh homes would most likely be like but for phase one like I said it's going to be 29 Lots those will be 10 town home lots and then 19 single family lots and then phase two would be 25 Lots phase 3 25 Lots 26 lots for phase four and then that would also include the park the Parkland area would be kind of up on the North east part of the development and then be kind of up on top of the hill so it'd be them I believe it's going to be the highest point of the of the property is that correct you know is that one right too okay and then down here in the corner is more of a depression um like it's I guess you could call it a holding Pond for right now because that's kind of when they did create the roadway in here they did put that in as a collection Pond area so the the Parkland area will technically be a 2.5 acre active Park which usually for development this size would be um it should be about a 10 percent Park area dedicated however in a PUD we can also well actually in any type of development we can do a mix of Park area dedication along with a cash um a cash match so we'll probably which I believe is like about fifty six thousand dollars or so which would be put into creating that Park so and we did get approval or a recommendation from the park board last month to move forward with this project they were they were happy with the area that we had dedicated to it because as we expand into the future hopefully by the time I'm retired um if we were to move into you know if we were to to develop South word there could be you know possibly there could be a park on this end that would serve the houses on the other end but that's getting way past my retirement hopefully so um but anyway so that's what the phases look like and then the holding Pond which there's already kind of a depression right there from the houses that are right that exist already but that would be created more so that would serve the area so um this is just kind of again showing what our first phase is going to look like coming in and then I don't know if you're going to be able to see this too well but this parcel of property has a lot of when we had the got the soils the soil reports and the geotechnical report from it it showed a lot of rock in this property so based on that to try to minimize as much Excavating or blasting as possible there our engineer had suggested doing a mixed um mixed style of homes as far as some might be walkouts some might be slab on grades some might have basements which will actually suit a multitude of different you know types of families or homeowners so you'll see even within the same cul-de-sac or the same area we might have some walkouts you know around the cul-de-sac here but then there might be Ramblers right next door and across from each other this might have a lookout this will be a duplex again these are going to be the twin home duplexes but again we're trying to minimize and just be cognizant of the of the topography itself to try to minimize as much Excavating as possible so that's kind of what we're looking at and this road technically will dead end in anticipation of future development so that's what I have so I would entertain any questions um that you may have or I can defer to to Darren he'd be happy to answer any engineering questions [13:30] Chair: what I think we'll do is we'll open up the public hearing absolutely questions where they want to just leave this up okay so at this time I'm going to open up the public hearing for Cannon Falls Eda hardwood Estates rezone planned unit development and preliminary Platt anyone wishing to address that you'd come forward to the mic [Music] except you [14:14] Chrisilla: hi I don't understand with your development why you have to mess with 72nd Avenue way if you're going to do it for the record why can't they go out to the nice new highway on 24. and what are the taxes going to be who's going to pay for it I have no extra money to pay for higher taxes than I already pay [14:38] Laura Qualey: so initially this will be a phased project so we'll start with that first like I said coming in on 72nd Avenue way to build those first homes and then eventually there will be um I don't know if I can back up oh I can back up from here maybe um eventually you'll see that there will be other roads that will be created as we create the other phases for the project so like we said for the first for the first phase our engineering team has determined that it will be able to handle the first phase of those 29 homes and then as phases as soon as the second phase will occur then there will be an outlet going out to 24. [15:19] Chrisilla: so then you're gonna block 72 on to 19 so we'll be going all the way around through [15:24] Laura Qualey: no no no that'll always be an outlet no there was a rumor of that there was yep originally there was going to be an uh uh with the development that was originally going to be hardwood Estates when it was Glenn mulva Hills project it was going to be in a cul-de-sac and now with our project we are not going to have that be a cul-de-sac so even though that house is set back far that one on the end that 72nd Avenue way is all is going to be open So eventually there will be a turn lane there will be a bypass lane but that will be part of the phases as we develop the project [16:04] Chrisilla: I think you should leave 72nd Avenue away as a dead end Road [16:08] Chair: can can you state your name for the record [16:11] Chrisilla: chrisilla laughs [16:16] Chair: anyone else wishing to address Hardwood second call anyone wishing to address Hardwood third and final call [16:35] Lyle Wilson: my name Lyle Wilson my interest is with the cemetery I'm on the cemetery board I'm wondering how the storm water is going to be handled coming down the east side of 72nd Avenue there is considerable water there spring runoff and heavy rain it comes across the top across comes across the road it runs through the cemetery so I feel that they speak through having dealt with the development about 20 years ago I know how strong water was handled then I'm wondering how it's going to be handled now okay [17:19] Chair: Darren do you want to can you handle that all right thank you [17:23] Darren (Engineer): um so the storm water that's currently draining there will still continue to drain through there the grading of the subdivision will actually divert some of that water away from the cemetery and to the the proposed storm water pond so there actually is proposed to be a reduction in the amount of water going towards the cemetery there isn't a specific Pond going to be built on that side but is right now currently they're trying to reduce the amount of water that's currently coming there based on the grading of the site [18:08] Chair: uh is there any other persons that want to address the uh see should I do the three calls again anyone wishing to address the public hearing second call anyone else wishing to address the public hearing third and final call okay I declare that public hearing close should we discuss this now or wait till the after the yeah let's do the resolution first and then okay we'll go to the second one [18:41] Commissioner Diane Johnson: committee would it be the opportunity to for us to ask questions [18:44] Chair: no just just some clarifying before we get the resolution [18:54] Commissioner Diane Johnson: so Laura just a couple questions I think I know the answer to this but I just want to make sure we're doing the right thing here so a long time ago the comprehensive plan and Zoning was determined it was determined R2 which I'm assuming was kind of the model at that time today's model is more mixed mixed use than a variety of housing so it is is that assumption correct that today the way we go about developments like this is just different than what it was planned for initially [19:28] Laura Qualey: um that is correct and I believe that you know when it was um annexed into the city um originally and that was previous before mulva Hill had owned the property um I'm I can't remember what it was what it was brought in as but I think that he his preliminary plot at the time um was just going to be single family homes there was no multi-family units there was no any type of mixed use it was I don't want to say it was cookie cutter but I mean like the Lots were pretty um pretty similar in size and everything so an R2 fit exactly what he wanted to do but yeah things have definitely changed as far as like what kind of needs Cannon Falls has and you'll even see with the next project um you know that that's going to be totally different than what we're proposing here so um you know but there is a multitude of Need for any type of housing in Canon um and but that us wanting to do a few Twin Homes here is um is why we needed to rezone it [20:25] Commissioner Diane Johnson: okay got it next my last question is so that in the in the plan that doesn't talk about timing of phases and I'm assuming that just happens as lots are sold and [20:41] Laura Qualey: it absolutely [20:42] Commissioner Diane Johnson: okay just want to make sure I understand that so thank you a great plan I think we need that thank you [20:53] Commissioner Steve Gasmi: and two questions basically uh engineering I guess um you mentioned that the uh soil and rock conditions vary throughout project are you going to um identify which lots are appropriate for a specific style of house then based on that [21:13] Darren (Engineer): um we can propose at this point as construction occurs um and then we actually dig through the rock or not rock then it would be um you'll be able to at least identify a little bit closer what what's more appropriate so preliminarily we'll say which one's best for walkouts or slabs but if if we find something that is like really hard rock then we would potentially let the Eda know like hey this is probably not the area to build a full basement this is probably something so we do have soil borings but as you know we can't see underground so there's lots of issues that we have run across where we're like we will make changes based on what we encounter as we go [22:06] Commissioner Steve Gasmi: so how would you how would you identify those lots up front [22:11] Darren (Engineer): so up front we would basically based on on the grading of the lot if there was a full uh like a walkout or a full basement or or such um just kind of label it what we think would be the best use of it uh however if if something we had designated like for a full basement like a rambler style and as we were digging in the sewer and it encountered Hard Rock we would maybe then recommend hey this is probably not the place to put a full base [22:36] Commissioner Steve Gasmi: would those utilities be in place prior to selling those lots [22:40] Darren (Engineer): yes correct [22:41] Commissioner Steve Gasmi: and you would have a better information and then you would make sure that the people who are looking at specific light would know what they could correct so you don't want to coming back at you later [22:50] Darren (Engineer): yes crack so if someone were to purchase a lot of home builder or even a private party sure it you would have at least have some information saying that this area had you know hard rock you know there's there's hard rock and there's digable Rock if you know so if it's just like yeah there's some rock that you can dig through well that that's fine but if it's you need to get the blasters out to go through it well then that's probably down a little bit yeah that's not what you want no to build a basement I would greatly increase the cost right correct [23:31] Commissioner Steve Gasmi: um thank you and then um the other thought I I that came to mind was it's great you're having a Park area that's super I didn't see any parking or um access to the park other than an open lot so I assume there's going to be some construction of parking area or something there [23:49] Darren (Engineer): yeah and that's something we can work with the Eda on how that that works out once we once that phase becomes constructed [24:02] Commissioner Steve Gasmi: yeah and then the other thing is uh yeah it is curious about the water situation um to the cemetery you've got a pretty good slope coming down towards it and you said you're going to grade it [24:14] Darren (Engineer): so so there's some off-site drainage coming from off-site right and so we won't be doing anything with that water that water will still come into the subdivision and go out of the subdivision the portion that we can control is the the land that the Eda owns and how we grade those lots and then it'll be graded towards the street and then collect it in a in a storm sewer and then uh directed towards the storm water pond so that portion that would have naturally gone towards the cemetery well then now be directed towards the storm water [24:55] Commissioner Steve Gasmi: and the storm sewer will be adequate to handle yes a pretty good not everything right [25:01] Darren (Engineer): correct yes correct [25:03] Commissioner Steve Gasmi: yeah so yeah that's that's basically what I had for questions thank you [25:11] Commissioner Jay Benke: man is there going to be an association for the town homes or how does that work [25:17] Laura Qualey: um I think that's yet to be identified you know I mean we haven't necessarily determined that but I um I guess it depends on you know if it's um you know if it's one Builder that buys up certain amounts of lots and does that um I guess that hasn't been necessarily finalized as far as if that's how the town homes are going to be or not but these lots are designated as Town Homes [25:47] Commissioner Jay Benke: correct you know although yes purple ones but um can you can you build that town home and sell it without having it part of an association just like the two owners do their thing or does it yes [26:07] Laura Qualey: no I'm just exactly [26:18] Commissioner Diane Johnson: you're not doing the minimum width and everything or the lot size how much smaller are some of these Lots because can we go back to that colored one please uh yeah there we go okay um looking at the original the six homes that have now been built yep um and I look at them I think they're smaller lot sizes and I'm looking at you know trying to visualize the proposal and thinking you've got some mighty small lot sizes on there [26:55] Laura Qualey: um well keep in mind that the orange ones that are the the town homes those are going to be smaller um but still [27:03] Commissioner Diane Johnson: not up to city code [27:05] Laura Qualey: those actually those actually are um I can't hardly see them um I think that the Twin Homes those lots I believe are I want to think that those um and I think they had to be 60. so a town home lot I think had to be 60 and those are 50. so I think that they were like 10 feet short I think is what it was [27:54] Commissioner Jay Benke: correct me if I'm wrong like on that Matt good question Diane that let's just pick lot one and two there'd be one twin home on one and two and half of it's on one and half of it's on two is that that would be my understanding right okay it straddles the line between them yes correct [28:16] Laura Qualey: okay and then as far as the other the other lots that would be the single family lots the um the width of the lot technically doesn't start until the um your front yard setback so like you could use Lot 10 that bigger lot down below like it might say 47 even though the lot width is supposed to be 60. you have a 25 or 30 foot setback from the front yard that's where the lot wood would start so that one probably is going to be closer to 60 than 47. if that makes sense [28:51] Commissioner Diane Johnson: yeah I just I don't want us to create a neighborhood where it looks like we're in the middle of Chicago and you're right on top of each other sure I don't believe that's fair to anybody we would want to invite to Sure live in our town yeah um do we have a this is probably engineering thing or uh preliminary cost of the infrastructure costs for phase one [29:18] Darren (Engineer): I don't have that on me no I don't [29:21] Commissioner Diane Johnson: who pays for the industry infrastructure the city [29:25] Laura Qualey: the city you'll pay for Eda streets gutters yes and and inside the development so this is in conjunction with 72nd Avenue way getting a street connected to that one as a separate project [29:43] Commissioner Diane Johnson: question is how long then to recoup those funds I mean the funds are coming from the city [29:50] Laura Qualey: well but they'll they'll be paid back through a lot of purchase so if it's successful they'll be paid back [29:56] Commissioner Diane Johnson: yeah you're looking at upwards of 500 000 or more or yes yes that the city we have to have that in the city budget then somewhere to pay for that it could be because I'm also assuming when you're done with phase one you're going to want to start phase two which incurs more infrastructure costs so until this whole thing is done the city will be out that money because as it's repaid back we're going to be using it to build more [30:35] Laura Qualey: right but the there has been there aren't any Lots currently in Canon and you know for us to be able to take the but we're taking the initiative to build some of these lots and as we sell the Lots then that's how we'll you know create the the taxable Market base to help pay that back and you know we'll sell the lots and that's kind of how we're you know our goal is different than a developer where we're trying to just break even with pay covering the cost for the infrastructure you know so we have a different um I guess we have a different mentality and a different goal and you know the superintendent is here tonight too and you know trying to increase enrollments increasing the housing you know so we have a different kind of angle that we're coming in at you know there's different benefits by providing the housing development that we're trying to create [31:33] Commissioner Diane Johnson: and that's that's fair yeah and that that I I also know that we've got two more developments one which we're looking at tonight um and I just being I've been told that we don't have that money and we're keeping all of our city departments you know down to only a certain amount of increase it's it's hard for me to accept then that there is half million or more dollars of taxpayers money that's going to be spent on this project and and that will continue until the whole thing is phased out because yes we repay it as we sell but then we're going to spend that amount if not more on phase two and then phase three [32:15] Chair: and uh commissioner Johnson a good question that's not we're not here to debate that that's already been approved by the council that model and how it's going to be financed and taken care of that's yeah that's already done [32:27] Commissioner Diane Johnson: and they have just so the council has some idea of of what kind of success you have to have before the recoup their funds I mean it's just a basic thing that's not for us [32:38] Chair: right and and that's and that's exactly correct I mean you know that's what the finance committee and that's what the council is that's what their um their role is to approve that whereas tonight we're looking at the concept of this and if this is the right fit for the city okay thank you [33:07] Commissioner Jay Benke: any other comments I'll move to uh approve the resolution as written for resolution 2023-05 for the planned Union development for PID 5235070 [33:23] Commissioner Steve Gasmi: I'll second that [33:25] Chair: yeah there's a motion by Jay benke second by Steve gasmi to approve resolution 2023-05 for the planned unit development PID 523-5070. [Music] any further discussion all in favor all right pause yay Bruce what'd you say yes yes uh passes three to one Okay so that's that now move on to public hearing for Leon endres Timber Ridge rezone planned unit development and preliminary Platt Zach you're up [34:36] Zach (City Staff): good evening staff is recommending approval of resolution 202306 for the developers request for a preliminary plot partial rezone of urban Reserve to R3 planned unit development and rezone of R3 medium density residential to R3 planned unit development um Mark sansigard is here to give you an introduction um go over the narrative and answer any questions that may arise so Mark if you don't mind [35:22] Mark Sansigard: good evening um chair members of the Planning Commission my name is Mark southgard I'm with jmh Land Development I'm a consultant on this project also here this evening is Leon Enders the on one of the property owners our engineer for the site is James R Hill and accompany James R Hill Incorporated and Rick osberg is our engineer can we get the slide up on the screens there we go thank you so that's our team I'll go to the next slide to introduce you to the property um as stated in the narrative and as seen on the um screen here the property in is for about 48 Acres of the Ender's property that they currently own and also we've worked been working with the city on a purchase agreement which is in progress that's the other part of the the plat or the proposed plat and that's 14 acres which is basically what's left from the old Sandstone development so I was gonna go to here so just a quick introduction on what our culinary plant looks like it does have a number of different type of housing types I've labeled them I'll just run through them right from stop from top down on the a area are basically the eight eight Lots from the earlier plaid of sandstone these are 80 foot Lots around the cul-de-sac we plan to keep these Lots exactly how they are but we will be rebuilding the streets in that cul-de-sac the B area those are 60 and 65 foot wide Lots um we have 34 of those planned the sea Lots those are our Villa Lots we have seven of them planned the Villa Lots would be set up for like a minimum maintenance type of a small community or neighborhood where an HOA would be established to maintain The Lawns and snow removal D are kind of unique or different Lots they're basically 80 to 90 foot wide Lots they will have rather large backyards in addition to the um the 80-foot lot or 90 foot lot we've designed an Alleyway to go along the bluff line in the rears which would be a private Drive maintained by a Association where each of these Lots would have a building pad for them to put up some type of an accessory building um and then e we'll talk about that a little bit later there's approximately nine acres that are kind of kitty Wampus away from everything else that we're looking to just subdivide into four estate Lots um and then to create you know a variety of homes up there on the North side we have an F area which is a little over or about 3.33.4 Acres um where we're anticipating um installing a multi-family building um an apartment building or assisted living or something like that uh also included in the the plan is uh active Park up on the North side and then on the south east side along the bluff and the wooded areas we've got a passive Park plan where we're anticipating putting in a Wood Trail that would be all public I'm going to go back to this slide here the area is Zone R3 right now which is the medium density the First Column there is your your lot requirements for an R3 zoning the second column represents what the cul-de-sac lots are right now how they were built we were not changing anything there from what it was originally zoned um the third column is all the single family homes which includes the 60 to 65 foot lots and also the 80 and 90 foot Lots um the main item there in this PUD that we're looking at is um on the side yard setbacks your straight zoning has 10 feet for a house side five feet for a garage side as a builder and a developer I've learned over time that's better to go a seven and a half seven and a half you still have 15 feet between the homes but this takes away the the situations where you may have garage garage and also know you only have 10 feet apart from each and it's easier for site planning so that's one request we have also going down the column in your ordinance your accessory buildings are limited to a 16 foot height with those larger Lots with the larger with this accessory buildings down below with a separate pad we're requesting that your building might be raised for this community for those lots on the the fourth column over is the Villas um we wanted to create a different type of or an alternative lot area in here we see there's a need in the city for more of a maintenance free maybe empty nester type of home or a single person's home that's not interested in maintaining their yard and Mowing and shoveling so we do have these are you know I'm sure we'll discuss this but we have these laid out at 45 foot wide lots and that's based on a 35 foot wide home that we're contemplating building here that I believe is being built down in Rochester right now so in a villa neighborhood and then also here we're looking at side yard setbacks of five and five and then the bottom very at the bottom there's an air here but in my narrative I've got that garage it has uh 400 square feet here it's 440 but we are requesting that that would be another item for the Pud so um again I want to go back to the um the estate lots that we're calling them as you can see on that site plan or the map on the right side the the sites highlighted and then in green we have the estate area the idea here it is part of the unders property it has been annexed into the city um but to get water and sewer down here it's extremely difficult my understand and I didn't make a note here but just to the left of see the number 19 if you go west of there onto that street that's kind of where the water and sewer is so it'd be quite the trip through Township property to get water and sewer to this property there is quite a bit of elevation change from where we're doing all the development down to here so it'd be difficult again to get sewer to get down to there so um initially with the Pud we had requested that septic and Welby allowed as we've been working with staff there's a few more steps we need to take basically a variance item needs to be approved in order for us to request a variant so we will be coming back with those over the next several months so with this PUD and as mentioned in the engineers memo this area would be planted as an outlet and then we would wait for those but I would like to hear any comments that you have on these four Lots or this area being served by well and septic again it's it's a little it's a it is pretty much a hardship case because the county road came through and completely separated part of it and the other area again is due to elevations and the distance that the Seward needs to come especially it can't even come through the town right now other areas would have to be annexed into the city um we also have a couple other unique situations with this plat um as we're laying the site out um there are a number of different things we we looked at um and maybe I want to go back to the overall site plan we this is probably site plan number eight so as you may know from the Sandstone development we've got some difficult soils here we've had both Rock and we got fat clays as we designed this site we basically after many discussions of soils engineer and test pits and soil borings we basically designed the site so every home their footings are in natural soil which is still the fat Clays but one of the things we couldn't do is take that fat clay and build anything with it so basically this layout puts your foundations on natural soil where working with our soils engineer there is a way to build on top of that with a pad what you can't do is build on top of filled fat guys now if you can imagine you've got a bunch of cuts now where do you put the cuts so this plant also takes into account where some of those cuts can go and that's into these backyards and stuff and that's we had other site plans and I think we came up maybe was here with a concept plan review where we had much more homes much are in here but basically it was a lot more grading this site plan is basically the minimum amount of grading possible for the site so basically that one street just kind of follows the current Ridge that's there and then our engineer painstakingly went through every one of these lots to make sure that the footings and stuff are unnatural um or natural ground so um so back to um this slide as we're laying it out I'll send you know we're looking at Lots 38 37 36 and we're standing there in that backyard and go this is a really big backyard to get all the way to 10. um so we've talked with a couple neighbors and they've shown interest in acquiring those a lot so rather than 37 in a giant lot that goes all the way back to eight nine and seven we propose is to have outlots here and this may not be the exact layout when we come back to you with the final plot we will have these Lots reorganized and we will be buying them but um our thought here is that we could expand some of these existing Lots so they can have a little bit more backyard and to be honest if you drove out there you see a couple of these people already kind of using that property so there it would probably be interested in purchasing it so that's the Pud part about those little Outlets we also have again working with the grades we've got room to build three more Lots down on 68th Avenue way which is a private Street the homes on there are not part of the city but they use that that access way VIA an access easement we have talked with um the owner of that access easement and we would be working with easements for these three lots so that they can have access via that that um 68th Avenue way now we've also been working with engineering on how to serve these three lots with City Water and Sewer so right now if you look through our plans you can see that the water and sewer lines are coming off a Ridgewood Court so the water lines are rather simple they can run down the lot lines but the sewer lines would have to be grinder pumps and little Force Mains pushing back up for those three lots as I mentioned before um we're looking at since we have that private alley and there's a number of things that need to be maintained and some architectural control and some rules and regulations on you know this architectural requirements the whole Community will have one Master Association on which we will run through the build out and then the villa homes again are intent there is to have it you know more maintenance-free living so that would have a sub Association that would take care of your driveway snow plowing and Lawn Care um also so back to that passive Park we've got some wooded trails that we're anticipating putting in so we will be working with staff on how to create access down the alleyway for the public to walk so that's how they would get down through there so back to the parks yeah so we're looking at you know we're excited to work with the city on um you know a neighborhood park 2.8 acre Park up there next to the proposed multi-family site in the Villa area and then we got this large wooded area um that you know would be great to have a nice walking trail through for the public so our plan is to clear a walking trail kind of where that path is but it's going to be kind of fit as you go so that is the plan for there and the parks department again I think last week did approve this okay so just go back in time to the old standstone development um everything if you drove out there right now you'd have to there's this a bunch of speed bumps out there and other interesting things to drive around so our plan is to tear out all the streets um the blue area we will be removing and replacing and the red just basically gets torn out and goes away pair that with our site plan um with an approval here soon we are working for phase one to include the cul-de-sac Lots Villa area and then get into the some of the new lots and and start building our our large holding Pond that would be phase one phase one would probably be built in two phases a little bit or what we can get done this fall we'd really like to get that cul-de-sac done and get a model and a spec homegoing and we're working with builders on that right now and again we're the Villa areas we're looking to get one Builder there to just to build them all and then get them get them sold that way so we're anxious to get that part rolling so that would be the first phase and with that I I know it's kind of quick but I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have [51:43] Chair: okay thanks what we'll do is excuse me we'll open up the public hearing and see if anybody wants to ask you any questions okay that's okay as of right now we're going to open up the public hearing for Leon endress September Ridge rezone planned unit development and preliminary Platt anyone wishing to address this issue please come forward state your name and address second call anyone wishing to address third and last call anyone wishing to address the Timber Ridge Resort if not I'll close the public hearing okay committee we get to have the pictures back up again I don't think I shut it off okay [52:31] Commissioner Diane Johnson: I think imagine and maybe I don't need on the top of the hill by where the proposed Park is right now there's water that drains down into that little Housing Development that's at the bottom of the hill behind a Bluff Drive uh my mouth show oh good does show up so where Bluff Drive comes out yep yeah there's water that goes down that Hill in this spot back here okay yeah right in that there's Holdens down at the bottom and somewhere by that last house I guess water is going down the hill [53:14] Mark Sansigard: okay so um The Watershed and I believe it's part of the construction plans but um we will be captured we'll look into that situation um we will be capturing all the water and maybe if you can see my circle well oops everything I'm just kind of circling right here does that make sense will be captured in the new storm sewer systems and then dumped into this pipe that's already here that goes down there according to the engineers this ponding has already been sized for this part of the development so if there's some runoff that flows down here that's causing a problem we'll need to look at that I'm not aware of any but it doesn't mean it's not happening the other rest of this area all these streets oh that storm sewer is going to go into here and then underneath this part of the trail we're going to pipe it down the hill and then Outlet it into this Ravine and let it go out this way most of it is naturally flowing that way today we have a little bit down here there's a culvert underneath this private road right now that picks up some of this or this area right here we'll capture that and do a raid control here and shoot it out that way but we need to work with City staff and make sure we get all our easements in place for that at like the city engineer mentioned in his report did I answer your question [54:33] Commissioner Diane Johnson: yeah okay thanks I don't I don't know that and until you go up look at it and it might actually be more boss Drive problem then your problem but I just thought on behalf of the people on the bottom of the hill I wouldn't mention it [54:49] Mark Sansigard: yeah my understanding we will be collecting everything in all our new infrastructure will be collecting everything in storm sewer pipe running it down the existing pipes that are already sized for it [55:04] Commissioner Diane Johnson: you know as long as you're there all of these streets that you're building are going to be public streets [55:09] Mark Sansigard: yes okay Alex with the exception we do have to work out an easement for these three lots down here [55:18] Commissioner Diane Johnson: okay so because both parks and our city parks passive and that would be our plan [55:25] Mark Sansigard: yes [55:26] Commissioner Diane Johnson: and and I'll ask before Bruce gets to do it for the passive where do if I wanted to drive over and walk around where would I park [55:36] Mark Sansigard: good question um you would have to there is there's a plan that we'll have to work out with our final stuff for a parking lot right here and one of staff's Commons has been and I mean it was in the Parks Department can we create a shortcut through here to get to there to go here so your parking would have to be over here and then you have to go for a little walk through the neighborhood to get to the passive area I'm assuming there will be parking street parking yes oh yeah there's street parking okay thank you [56:22] Commissioner Steve Gasmi: I have a question on the I think it was called auxiliary buildings okay that I can kind of understand that a little bit but what it seems like is with those bigger size Lots down on that side and they're longer Lots on that bluff side right there's the thought is of putting in pads back there for future accessory buildings [56:47] Mark Sansigard: yeah we would grade the site so that there's a phone yeah good okay yeah when I say pads I meant grading not concrete a flat spot okay so you wouldn't have to do any large excavation to build that garage and again it would be up to that that homeowner or the Builder to put it up but what we would build is the alley with the development [57:17] Commissioner Steve Gasmi: okay it's the private alley [57:20] Mark Sansigard: private alley and [57:23] Commissioner Steve Gasmi: so are there Builders or homeowners or Builders or potential homeowners that are requesting those kind of accessory buildings I'm just curious I'm not sure where that comes from [57:34] Mark Sansigard: well it was kind of an interesting imagine doing this site plan and the engineer says okay here's the best place for the road and then we're looking at all these deep lots and like well it looks like kind of a waste what can we do here what's a need um and again these are going to be higher end homes um um you know that are 80 or 80 90 foot which used to be the normal lot size but in today's market in the last 20 years that's shrunk down um but you know people have their toys and you know the three-car garage that pretty much covers you and your wife's and your kids car now where do you put your boat and your four-wheeler and your side by side and you know things like that and here's a nice place where you can have your own accessory building [58:24] Commissioner Steve Gasmi: okay so uh as far as increasing the height that's not really going to be a big deal because the elevation change behind the house it's not really going to look [58:34] Mark Sansigard: yeah yeah if you look at the grading plan from the top down the bottom there's already 20 feet of fall so yeah yeah and you were requesting to raise that from 16 to 20 feet yeah we're just trying to get I'm envisioning someone with an RV and they want a garage door that's 12 feet high and then you know if you have that 16 foot and then the way you read your building code is your building height is halfway up the rake or halfway up your truss so again I'm just envisioning someone with a little larger vehicle that wants to park it in that you're eight or ten foot garage door is not going to work they want to go with a 12 so they can park their camper in there okay so that's kind of that's why that request is in there [59:19] Commissioner Jay Benke: okay I've got a question um on phase one you're going to re remove uh soils is that correct on your uh cul-de-sac area [59:32] Mark Sansigard: yeah so okay on this one so if you drove out there today um Decorah drive that's coming in off the county road and sansler Court that's already built so and that street has failed yeah so um we will be removing the asphalt removing the curb removing the class five removing the sand and then reconditioning that dirt and rebuilding it back up [59:58] Commissioner Jay Benke: okay and I understand there's clay underneath there [1:00:01] Mark Sansigard: yeah so what we've been doing is we've been working with the city engineer on what is the best street section for that [1:00:08] Commissioner Jay Benke: okay that that's what caused all the problem with the road to start with [1:00:13] Mark Sansigard: but yeah a large part of what we're finding after we've been doing a lot more test fits out there is the um the utility contractor the grading contractor did an okay job is the utility contractor didn't do a very good job backfilling stuff so that's what we're going to be identifying [1:00:35] Commissioner Jay Benke: do you know how deep the clay is [1:00:38] Mark Sansigard: all the fat Clays it goes it's a it's the chorus Shale so yeah it goes down pretty far yeah [1:00:46] Commissioner Jay Benke: yeah that's what I thought yeah [1:00:48] Mark Sansigard: so there's there's no removing it it's just how do you build on top of it properly yeah how do you how do you how do you build on top of it for it to last 100 years well a couple ways um so on the new housing if fat Clay is um and again it's fine if you leave it alone it can take any type of a load [1:01:10] Commissioner Jay Benke: yeah but it gets wet [1:01:12] Mark Sansigard: yes if it gets wet it'll expand if it dries it contracts so what the engineers and this is what they've been doing on Bluff Drive right now and what the engineer that we've been working with is suggesting is for your home construction I'll start with the houses for your house construction you go down to your footing grade and we've um and you'll be in that Shale or that fat clay and again it's solid it's fine where it's at if it gets wet or it dries out it moves around it's expansive soils is what they call it and again the construction doesn't open up that what what opportunity for it so what our Builder would need to do go down another two feet okay take that out and then put in a sand pad bringing right two feet of sand drain tile it so that water comes into the sand hits the drain tile and then goes away before it gets into the pad and then he builds his footings on top of that [1:02:14] Commissioner Jay Benke: so you just drain tile where the Foundation is [1:02:18] Mark Sansigard: around the hole around the home not not the whole lot not the whole lot no [1:02:24] Commissioner Jay Benke: okay and then that's that's the recommendation that the current homes on Bluff Drive have been doing and that's what um I I think there's another development to the Northwest that they ended up doing and we're using the same engineer that's been working out here and that's what he's recommending now the other tricky part um as you know when we put in the water and sewer we'll be going down into that fat clay and we'll have to backfill it with that bad clay so what we'll have to do is find the optimum moisture content for that material before we put it back in and then put it in at that moisture content and then compact it properly that's the I think what happened here with the utility contract didn't do that so we've been working diligently with the engineer on that and we're picking our contractors and as we bid it out and we'll we'll have lots of conversations about have you done this before and how do you do it [1:03:19] Commissioner Steve Gasmi: okay my old geology Professor would be happy good questions yes thank you thank you [1:03:35] Commissioner Jay Benke: well just to uh if we approve this tonight that has no bearing on these Outlets down on Long 24 correct that's a that's a different that's a different meeting the being the estate Lots [1:03:52] Mark Sansigard: yes yeah again as the engineer request or nor in his memo we would plant these as outlets and we would not bring them forward and I believe that's written in your resolution too that's our understanding but I I guess we would like to hear um your opinion on considering how these lots are you know kind of out there by themselves [1:04:19] Commissioner Jay Benke: we can't really give you a very good opinion because of if it isn't part of this I think it's just going to have to be a separate separate meeting all together for that I do recall talking about that at one time the general concept is you would be okay until the city develops such closer to that when water and sewer are brought down there and then they would have to be connected the requirement would be they'd have to be connected at least that's what I'm remembering when it becomes feasible and when it's nearby is that am I remember that right that's how we discussed the class [1:05:03] Zach (City Staff): yeah so I think that's the language staff is working with on this particular variants that if it is allowed then what or you know what are the criteria to allow it and then what are the criteria if something came along correct [1:05:14] Commissioner Jay Benke: so okay as I think as Jay said the last time we talked about it we had no objection as long as we can figure out legally how to State it so that once the city got the water available it's mandatory for those owners [1:05:35] Mark Sansigard: yeah but they also then be a part of this overall Association or would they be kind of I would think they would not again um just to get a little bit into these site plans and they're they're kind of interesting you're looking for a compound with you know two houses is a perfect place for you but due to the access requirements from the county those two access points that we have shown on the plant have already been reviewed by the county and that's their recommendation so the counties really only allowing us one access point on each side so that's kind of why we have the shared driveways and then we are working you know the next step is to confirm those septic locations work and we are in the process of doing that getting the soils tested thank you for the presentation that was helpful all right thanks any other questions [1:06:50] Commissioner Diane Johnson: not for him but for me no I I think it's a Neil question um in our Council packet we had something from jablonski and towering Bluffs and in that one there was some kind of a letter of credit and I and I wondered is that a different phase and what we're on here and are we going to have that same letter of credit [1:07:12] Chair: correct that's that's the developers agreement that'll come later [1:07:18] Commissioner Diane Johnson: okay but that would be a part of that then [1:07:21] Chair: yeah there will be a letter of credit it's uh based on how much the public infrastructure costs and and they have to put that up uh prior to construction [1:07:33] Commissioner Diane Johnson: okay it seemed like a very good plan after what happened on the old sandstone okay thank you anything else [1:07:44] Commissioner Steve Gasmi: I'm going to make a motion to approve resolution 2023-06 for the uh Timber Ridge rezone planned unit development and preliminary plaque [1:07:54] Commissioner Hema: well second it [1:07:55] Chair: motion by Guess me second by hema to accept resolution 2023-06 is there any further discussion motion carries anybody have anything else [1:08:14] Commissioner Jay Benke: move to adjourn [1:08:16] Commissioner Diane Johnson: second [1:08:17] Chair: any further discussion all in favor aye thanks everyone