go ahead and that's loose call the M we'll start with a roll call mcke here lanterman here friederick here Baron Camp here Nichols also here perfect like to stand and join me the pledge of allegiance aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and all righty agenda approval uh saw there's one added item anything else from staff besides 9A uh 9A was the only addition okay anything from Council okay then I will entertain a motion to approve the agenda as modified so moved nich second very you all those in favor say I I perfect and then we are on to we have one presentation today our financial quarterly report and I believe K is going to be doing that and and our First Financial quarterly report since I've been here so Kisha uh is online uh and can you hear her Casa can you hear us hi are you hey can you hear me no no we can't hear you here no it says she's unmuted it does say she's uned yeah we can see her but it's not oh I know why don't forget to take out your trash cans try now again can you hear me now okay technology learning and growing it worked when I talked to her earlier today on here she should be allowed to unmute try it now are you able to hear me oh can I heard something okay turn up the volume Pump Up the Volume Pump Up the Volume it's all the way up okay what about there probably a dial um Natalie Panic got close to touching us try it again are you able to hear me another option it's very quiet out of that speaker oh we have to throw it somewhere else the speaker [Applause] [Music] yay how about now there we go thanks perfect and and actually Vicki will be the one presenting okay there we go thank you sorry I did not have the ability to unmute for a moment there granted me ability that was on our end we're figuring it out no no problem at all uh well good evening mayor and councel uh Vicki holos with ABDO Financial Solutions um tonight as uh administrator Tobin and um quisha mentioned I'll be walking through your Q4 report um but before we do that I did want to just take a brief moment um and introduce you to Casa um quisha took over as took point for corkran when the city signed its long-term engagement with us back in October um however she had been working behind the scenes uh for the city all throughout last year uh along with me as well so I just wanted her to be able to unmute real quick and say hello to everyone hey thanks for joining us fantastic go ahead I was just gonna say good evening Council again my name is kaea gansky um I am a senior manager here with ABDO Financial Solutions I joined ABDO about a year and a half ago and prior to joining ABDO I spent a decade um working in the municipal government sector here in arkans and various managerial roles from accounting supervisor to deputy director of finance and even interim CFO and it's just a pleasure to meet all of you likewise and you yes thank you Kisha um mayor and councel I do not have the ability to share my screen um if you'd like to grant that ability I can quick pull up the council packet so that uh viewers online could follow along um that's up to you otherwise I'll go ahead and get started give us one do that just click on share looks like you have it pulled up as well so I could certainly guide you through it I have the page numbers noted yeah let's let's do let's go with that Vicki perfect that sounds good um well just starting out this is page 16 of the packet um it's labeled page two of the ABDO report but again 16 of the packet um that's our opening compilation disclosure and it basically just notifies the council that um this quarterly financial report these quarterly Financial reports that we'll be producing for you are not audited um however we do go through a robust review process as we prepare the quarterly financials that being said I do want to call out that this is a preliminary look at your um 2024 results over the next several weeks we'll be closing out year end and making several adjustments there are still claims being paid that are for services rendered in 24 that will be posted um so I do just want to give you that frame of mind as we kind of start the presentation um and so with that um I'll ask you to move to page 18 of the PDF of the council packet and just so the city knows I only see a zoom screen right now I don't see the actual packet up I think 18 is the F yeah okay so on page 18 um that that illustration is your general fund cash and I always like to pause here for just a moment because it really does a great job of presenting why in Minnesota the office of the state auditor recommends that we have a 35 to 50% general fund reserve and the reason for that is we go through two kind of Peaks and valleys throughout the year um at the beginning of the year we kind of start at our maximum Reserve Point um and then we'll dip down our reserves for the first half of the year until we get that first property tax settlement in June and then the same typically happens for that second half of the year until we get that final property tax payment in December and so it just does a nice job of iterating or reiterating why the city um should have should maintain those adequate reserves as suggested by the Osa um I'll have you flip over then to page 20 of the packet um and this is your general fund statement of revenues and expenditures so one more page in there you go um so what you're seeing here is again based on preliminary results we have about a $200,000 surplus of revenues over expenditures um again we will be recording additional accounts payable we may have some receivables that we post as well but as of right now that's just a snapshot of how that year end is looking um couple things of note licenses and permit Revenue was up from the year prior um and up from budget and this is um offsetting some additional increases on the expense side for accounting services as you brought in some consultant help with ABDO uh last year um in the finance department and with uh HR functions and payroll as well um and then in the engineering department we did see um a a like a positive variance because we did have a couple of positions there that were not filled in 2024 so there's a pos positive variance from budget there um flipping over then to page 22 of the PDF um this is your cash by fund report and so this shows you the cash that's in every one of the city's funds so this is a really nice illustration for for viewers to see all of the different kind of business enterprises and functions that we're accounting for within the city and just a couple of things to note on the cash by fund report um as expected the pavement management fund as well as the Horseshoe Bend and City Center funds um experienced some cash decreases because we had that planned cash outlay for those road projects and then of course the water fund we had the tower as well as the water infrastructure projects which we spent down Bond proceeds in that fund um flipping over then to page 24 um both 24 and 25 I recognize they're a little small but if you want to just hold it there it kind of gives at least viewers a an understanding of how to navigate this report um so this does a nice job of presenting all of the city's cash and investment Holdings so where you have your cash and Investments kind of tied up right now the city is quite liquid and so one of our goals is to work with the city over the next year to really start to build out a ladder um of your Investments to be able to maximize when we have some idle funds to be able to maximize interest earnings and then lastly um I'll point you to page 26 of the packet um the last two reports are on your Enterprise funds your water and sewer fund and I'll just comment on a couple of things in the water fund um because it had a bit more um um kind of one onetime activity than the sewer fund had um so in the water fund you're seeing a couple of things here um interest earnings were higher because we had some additional funds with the bond proceeds where we were able to acrew and earn interest um throughout 2024 and then on the expense side of things we had some higher engineering um related to the Tower and the infrastructure project and then of course some um increase Debt Service because of the new bonds that came online for those infrastructure projects so with that I will pause take any questions from Council but we really really appreciated the opportunity tonight to walk you through that first quarterly report from ABDO um going forward um you can expect to receive quarterly Financial reports from us um but I'll take any questions from Council have any questions Jeremy I had one uh I really appreciate page 24 showing the interest on the city's balances I'm interested in knowing do we currently have a solid process that we're happy with for how we allocate that interest to various other City accounts that's an excellent question um so the process we follow is is a standard process that most cities will use and that is on a monthly basis um we take a snapshot of cash and all of the various funds um and do a prata allocation now when there's Bond proceeds specifically in play um we will make sure that we account for those Bond proceeds interests um separately or uniquely if I could speak to that so uh I've talked with some of you about um coming up in March we're hoping to bring forward discussion to have uh get clarity and guidance on an investment strategy to ensure that what we have we can benefit from interest it would also be a really good opportunity for us to clarify if Council has any intent beyond the the normal procedure in order to benefit from those those proceeds from interest and it does look like there's a fairly substantial difference between the money market fund and the 4M fund at various descriptions different in the system page 24 and the PDF thanks so the money market is 2.3% the 4M fund lines seem to range between 4.8 and 5.3% so I think it would make sense to try to shift more of our accounts toward the higher yielding system I apologize counselor I think I misunderstood your question um I was interpreting it more from the accounting fund standpoint uh so yes I would agree I think the city will want to leverage the highest yield opportunities that it can experience as we move forward but it was pleasant to see you know 1.6 million interest income over the course of the year that's a significant fraction of our Levy so it's great to see that we've have some we've had some um money working for us in 2024 any other questions or comments all right thanks Vicki thanks kaisha appreciate it our pleasure good evening go ahead go back to log okay and on to open Forum uh Jay will walk us through that but this is for items not on tonight's agenda um if anyone would like to come up please come up the microphone and state your name and address yeah and please fill out a card they're on the on the um cart over there uh name address and and the topic that you want to have but for open form we has to come up you speak to the council uh you have five minutes uh to address them on anything that is not on the agenda okay we will move on uh on to consent agenda consisting of items 6 a through 6 P does anyone want to pull anything I would like to pull six g k and l g k and l I had G as well um anyone else n please n police y oh they're both police uh inauguration support one which one is that n n thank you n is an don't call me NY after M November M as in mancy um okay anything else we have g k Ln if not I will entertain a motion to approve consent agenda items a through f h through J a m o and P so moved Nicholls second very okay beat you all those in favor say I I I okay we'll just go down the line uh start with G Jeremy did you want to yeah so I don't know if anybody else uh wants to look at anything beyond this I had a concern about the wording in the red line Edition to on page 247 adding item n that in the i1 and Business Park District only we would permit smooth finished concrete panels as a class one material looking through the packet and the images that were shown in the literature some of them I thought would be fine and I would treat them as a class one others I thought were too institutional and um almost like a parking garage kind of the surface and I I wouldn't want to treat those as class one by policy I think this might need to get modified either to call out some specific features or characteristics of those panels or else make it subject to counil review at the time of the application okay I I would be open to those discussions my initial thought on it was I was more okay with that change in the uh i1 District not as much in the BP Business Park um so my suggestion was going to be to amend the resolution to remove the business park um on that same line um how do you feel about just in industrial I think even in industrial I I think we could do I think if we get some of these up they're not going to look like what we want corkrin to look like they'll look like Rogers do you have suggest more industrial language can I make one comment before you do council member uh so it's important to remember that we're talking about uh one District which is essentially one one set of buildings so um I I'm not diminishing the importance of getting it right but but also I just want to emphasize that the decision is is going to impact one development uh if it's only i1 uh if we were to add bp2 then it's going to impact two what about the develop 55 that's not district oh this is the district specific guidance okay so do do you have potential language that I would say subject to counsel approval just add that to the end I'm fine taking out BP okay let's see here so where would you put that in there so I would have it read per your suggestion removing BP in the i1 district only smooth finished concrete panels subject to council review and approval Natalie Kendra and John any concerns or comments on that and Dwight uh I would say the only concern is I I I think just from a staff level it' be helpful to understand which ones you're talking about that you'd be if you're bring a pack it up I can give you my opinions other counselors might disagree but I can at least share my concerns so the problematic ones I thought were on page 268 and 275 but there there were others that I thought looked great or could look great um 278 I thought had some good choices on it 279 looked good 280 looked good I'm sorry I'm like about a minute behind you sorry so so your proposed language would allow basically allow it as that material subject to they just have to come in when they're doing their preliminary show the type right that they'd do and we'd say whether or not that meets correct does that the intent of the Northeast district is it a class otherwise what is it currently class three yes currently class three um so if it didn't meet it would it still be allowed as a class three material I would say yeah and just to make sure we're talking about so 265 that is not an example of a smooth finish so um and then what was the other one you said you didn't like 275 275 is also not an example of a smooth finish that would be considered class one so we're talking about the smooth finish would be the only one considered class one all the rest would be class three so which ones are smooth finish okay smooth finish you can find on page 273 uh two 272 272 273 is that it so we've limited it to what's on for 272 and 273 we we are saying that's the only one that's acceptable as a class one um I will note that we have didn't really find an example of another city that has um defined it to this extent so we are confident this will allow for a higher level quality than you would see in our surrounding cities okay those aren't the worst Defenders I think those could be okay so was just limited to that like it's I believe is what you're saying is the draft does that alleviate your concern about the specific approval I mean I guess it might be helpful to include photos as references to the guide to the Northeast District guidance so that it's clear to Future applicants what we actually intended that to mean absolutely can do you need a motion on that or can you do it just on uh consensus the point was that we actually said that on it was I thought it was written to just include those two the other ones were just examples of what were possible one of the things I talked to some of you about is is uh fabcon who builds this is in Savage and what shows up in the photo looks way different if you drive down and they have it it's all displayed yeah and as I was doing a construction project in Shaka I thought that I liked something until I saw what it looked like huge and so the nicer more refined finishes uh you will see in the packet of building that I used to be responsible for I hated that finish I had to look at it every day and so I agree with you 275 would not be my favorite um so as far as an example um part of the reason why we feel this was an oversight and how it was initially drafted the district standards is the bottom picture there on page uh 294 of the packet does say class one materials industrial and that is an example of a smooth finish we could certainly add some additional language right there to clarify a smooth finish um but we do have an examp a visual example of what that smooth finish would be um let me just look at that yeah I would say so there's a caption class of materials industrial I would maybe put smooth finish panel on that image okay so that it's clear that's what that is and that's what we would be expecting if somebody comes in and says yes this is a smooth finish panel no it doesn't look like this we can certainly make that change yes thank you okay with a change to the actual guidelines and then we can I'll make a motion here shortly unless there's any other comments or yeah you know I'm um we're talking about finishes but do we have a project application in front of us asking for this like why are we talking about finishes if we don't have a project in front of us I think we will have one well but then shouldn't we wait until the application is in front of us before before we talk about finishes you don't need to process it all at the same time so these are some larger issues um that we went ahead and proceeded with the app the applicant for this um will have an application coming coming along Line If This Were to not get approved that means they need to revise their plans so they're trying to understand how they would need to revise those plans in order to comply um however these are items also that have been under were pointed out to staff as an inconsistency in terms of material and the other items were um things that have come up with other applications and other scenarios that staff has been aware of and it's been on even part of our list as our commercial industrial update so that's why it is in front of you right now um in order to allow for uh someone to come in with an application because the variance would not be appropriate to address these okay thank you and is this the one we have the eaw in the packet for well cor yes so it's imminent yes is is anything else I do have one question of clarity now that we've um disc clarified what we meant by smooth finish does that change at all in terms of how it would be applied in the business perk District versus industrial I would still like to keep it just to Industrial personally but I think that's what we're going to vote on okay all right then I will make a motion to amend resolution we have the number I lost it here what what page is it see here my navigation not working where I click on it it's 202- 543 2025 D5 43 tror that's the ordinance number yeah okay that makes more sense okay y I don't see do you see what page that's on well 250 is the ordinance this what fooled me this got motioned and seconded by on the ordinance page Mr Mayor we've got three items we have the ordinance number 20 25-5 43 the uh for the actual change the summary ordinance 25 or 20 25-54 and then the resolution with the findings of fact is 25-4 okay so I would make a motion to amend ordinance 2025 543 uh class one item 9 that's the second page of the ordinance to just say in the i1 district only smooth finish concrete panels and that would be my only change and I would like to make a friendly that we also indicate to staff that they update the caption for the image for the Olympus building in the district standard to indicate that that image is intended to illustrate the smooth finished concrete panel that works I think um as a I'll take that as a friendly um do I have a second second sorry go ahead Michelle a second any further discussion all those in favor say I okay perfect um K who pulled that one I think that was me also I I had pulled both K and L just to thank our commissioners for their continued oh yes you're right s sorry Jeremy um I forgot to actually go back and then approve can I do it by uh a motion to approve consent agenda item 6G as modified I'll make that motion that was second second all those in favor say I by perfect thanks John uh K Jeremy so I I wanted to thank our returning planning commissioner uh kin brummond who has volunteered to serve again for another term uh a lot of what the city is going to develop into will be first touched by the parks and trails and Planning Commission so it's great to have citizen engagement in those groups uh if anybody has a couple spare hours per month I would encourage you to apply it can be a really fun way to serve your city and get an advanced view of what's coming and help to shape it in a way that's true to the values that corkrin has always held and if you have an interest in the Watershed uh we desperately need a watershed commissioner that we've been advertising every meeting and everywhere we can and even if you're not interested help spread the word we'd really appreciate it because we really need someone so I just wanted to acknowledge Karin for volunteering to come back again and then I'll go ahead and make a motion to um approve item 6K we have a second second all those in favor say I I perfect oh then six out same thing just for different people uh commissioner Tom Anderson has been serving our parks and trails commission for many many years uh he's had a lot of organizational knowledge and he volunteers consistently doing a lot of great things for the city he's actually our interim uh Watershed commissioner as well um and we also have um Jonathan also volunteering to go back through for another term so once again it's great to acknowledge these folks happy that they're with us and hope they continue to serve absolutely okay want to make motion I will move to approve 6L you have a second second all those in favor say I I all and then finally we had n Dean yes um huge um if folks don't know what it is it's a police department inauguration support we sent I believe four people or four people volunteered three volunteered we sent three um huge honor I'm sure um I wanted to thank them for volunteering and Stu and such it was cold so I hope they still uh they still had a enjoyable time and such in this then the nicest thing that came out of all of that it didn't come out of our budget so that was the number one thing I wanted to make sure people understood that I I don't remember the cost um but it was a good thing for our Police Department to be there many many yeah different uh jurisdictions from all over the United States were invited to participate and it's pretty cool it's the first time corkran sent inauguration support too yep pretty neat stuff so I saw some of the pictures that looked like a cool cool event special event so with that uh motion to approve nine in or six in excuse me all right do we have a second I'll second it all those in favor say I hi hi I missed you I okay perfect sorry no no worries sometimes I just try to focus on all four of you at once and I'll miss one all righty so we are through consent on to planning we'll have a uh public comment opportunity here for items uh let's try it for 6 a b I'm sorry for 7 a b and c and if we need to break it up into individual ones we can do so so if you'd like to speak on 7 a or C please head on up to the podium if you're not the applicant if you're the applicant we'll give you some time staff will give a brief as well yeah okay all right then we will go into s yes 7A thank you Mr Mayor and Council um yeah tonight uh item 7A is the Schmid Schmid's Hidden Valley Third Edition concept plan um this is an application uh brought to you tonight from uh Michael and Judith Judith ball who are requesting informal feedback on a subdivision concept plan uh on their property of 21900 Oakdale Drive um this parcel is currently a 28.26% and is located outside of the 24e um Musa area um so it's subject to the development rights program and currently contains four development rights uh the concept plan itself consists of uh three single family lots and zero outlots ranging in size from about three and a half acres to just shy of 21 Acres um each lot contains a primary an alternate septic site and um two of the existing seasonally seasonally flooded basins are um being proposed to be utilized as um storm water management ponds in the concept plan um all three of these proposed Lots would receive access from a shared Private Drive off of Oakdale Drive which um I'll get into a little bit more later on in the report um reviewing this against the rural residential district standards um it appears that uh The Proposal complies with um all of the applicable standards the only one that undefined right now is the maximum principal building height which um isn't uncommon at the concept level and that would be reviewed um more thoroughly with a building permit application um but going back into the streets and access for the site um The Proposal is on Oakdale Drive which is classified as a a minor collector Road in the 2040 comp plan um City practice has been uh to limit direct access points on collector roads uh through um redirecting them to Local streets um just to reduce access points and improve safety on these on these busy roads um and with this application it was or with this parcel it was previously approved as an outlaw from the Schmid Schmid Hidden Valley second edition uh in 2013 um and on the screen um to the right is a an image of the preliminary plat from uh that second edition which uh identified a a potential future Road alignment which would extend High Bluff Lane from the south and would cut through the site through the um Northwest area of of the outlaw um the staff report from that addition noted that the future Road alignment would be determined once this parcel was developed uh and and with this application staff had a chance to um go through an infrastructure feasibility Study last fall and and determined um where that alignment would actually be and um the findings of that report found that U that alignment would actually be better suited more towards the West in alignment with what uh with what the applicant is proposing the area of the private Drive is on the concept Plan before you tonight um but the applicant's proposal itself does um illustrate a share private Drive instead of uh a public uh roadway um and staff does have concerns with this as it would um create some significant impacts towards um some of the longer standing internal Street Network plans for this area um and um could impact future subdivisions of within the vicinity so um staff recognizes that there are a couple of um particular areas that you may want to provide feedback to the applicant on as they um decide to um proceed with this application um mainly uh would there be support for a shared access easement instead of um a RightWay easement um or would there be more support for um dedication of right away uh and would allow the applicant to um install a a private Drive within the right of way and if so um would the city be open to taking on the future responsibility of upgrading this private drive to a public road once uh adjacent parcels subdivide and develop in the future so at this point staff recommends that the city council review and discuss the concept plan and provide the applicant with informal comments uh and again any opinions or comments provided to the applicant by the city council are considered advisory only uh and shall not constitute a binding decision of the request okay thank you any comments or questions start off I had a question on if it's done as a right of way instead up a private drive would it need a turn lane as well on Oakdale or would that not be needed because only serving three lots I would have to defer to the engineers but I don't believe with the volume of of homes being constructed in this development that it would um require that turn lane okay yeah this development doesn't trigger turn Lanes future developments May war that that's not being considered at what a future development you know imagining 15 years from now say four or five additional homes go in to the west or to the north um would there be a mechanism for that development to cover the cost of the road being built in the right of way to service that new development um or would it have to be the city that does it probably I mean I I mean if we speaking in the future I don't know what the statutory regulations are so it's a pretty broad hypothetical so I couldn't really guarantee an answer um what I guess what I would say is in situations at least how I understand past practice is in situations where we believe the RO can extended we typically haven't permitted a private Drive probably to avoid that confusion issue later so where where we don't believe a public road is needed um we still take easement but we have I guess proceeded with that that's my understanding of private rools okay yeah I can just add a little bit to that in our ordinance we say that private drives are only allowed when we determine um that a larger Road network connection is not needed so I just that alone would require a variance since that gets a little more challenging um and then to Kevin's point we are not aware of an example where we've taken right of way and then allow for a private drive to go in that RightWay we've have allowed a single user driveway to go in in some instances but that single user has also agreed that they are responsible for the full cost later on when it does need to get upgraded to a public Street and then the other aspect of that is we're dealing with one user once we have a private Drive established with multiple different residents that becomes politically challenging as well once that date comes so thank you any other questions yeah I I had thought we didn't do private drives anymore shared private drives I thought we were saying no to stuff like that it it it it's very dependent on the set of facts we have a in our zoning ordinance we do allow for private drives when there's no need for a larger Road Work Connection um but we start the assumption that we need to find connections to support a larger Road Network so we don't have a whole bunch of one-offs it's going to be a while before that comes out here so um so I would say that it's not that it doesn't happen but in this particular instance a road network connection has been envisioned for several years on the comp plan um not I don't I would have to look at our comp plan but it was part of the approvals for when this outlaw a and Outlaw B is Valley were approved gotcha and then who's going to be responsible to write the contract to plow that road and such and will it be gravel will it be tar would it be if it was a private drive or if it was shared Private Drive is the problem that I have is does everybody get is everybody going to get along what's going to happen I'm yeah private drives have their own set of challenges and maintenances the long-term cost of Maintenance can be difficult and um we received a couple calls just this year actually maybe end of last year of people on private drives that were wanting to go through the process to upgr upgrade to a city street because they W getting along for whatever reason but the cost of that is also very challenging and so those requests tend to go away and so they are left in a a a situation that's less than ideal um but yeah that there are there's pros and cons to each and so can I ask a question yes of course uh do you like a just a proposed drawing of what that roadway might look like it was just up was it just up the location has already changed because of the feasibility study it was determined that uh having that move further west where his pointer is um is ideal because of the SES yeah the sight lines it needs to be further west because of yeah no I agree with that too and and that match up with what the applicant had desired to they had wanted it further west so it um it was a something that we felt we could handle on out Lot B whenever that comes in we'll have to change the alignment on there as well so it just changed the location of some of those three lots the if we if we did it that way with the road going all the way through up uh so the so the Lots the Lots on the concept plan would like if if the private Drive were to be changed out with a public road this would align with what the findings were from the uh infrastructure studies so um the actual touchdown point on Oakdale Drive is correct but the actual means of what's installed is I think what the hangup is gotcha any other thoughts if it's a public road does that mean that it's a paved Public Road I yes according to our standards I think there's a rural option and a curved option but they're both beig where is that leading you well I feel the tension about you know I I want people to be able to access like if I had a parcel like this and I wanted to create a couple lots for family or something like that I'd want to be able to have that be feasible I don't know what the cost of a public Street in a development like that would be and what that would do to the prospect of doing it um when we're so far away from the prospect of needing a street in that area and there's impacts to the city as well because then the city has to maintain the the public Street for a decade or two or three until and in case further development in that area ends up happening um and it's a dead end Street then and it's a dead end street so you're talking about a call the act that has to get plowed out every time we get two inches of snow so I I could be persuaded either way I'd be interested in hearing what the rest of council thanks I'm okay with a with a private Street I just want the the people that are going to purchase it understand they're responsible for it and then the one parcel that's 20.95% the mindset that they have one building right on that 20 acres on the top one so councelor Von Camp um it's unclear that right now the outlaw as a whole has four development rights with this uh application they would utilize three of those so it's it's unclear what the distribution of that last development maybe could add one more it's potential it's how has this got how does this have four development rates when it was 28 it's because of previous subdivisions and this is what's left so there was there was a much larger property at one point and this is how the rights have these are the remaining rights so concept is this could come back with four building rights on you know or there be two one one of them could potentially split so yeah in the future one of the Lots could future subdivide if it met all of our standards um and or if one of the Lots around uh that were adjacent they could potentially uh do a plat to move development rates over but it would have to be an adjacent property so okay so how would it work if we were to allow the private drives now and then but 10 years later subsequent development comes in we need Road there well I do want to say my understanding is the property to the South has sold um so I don't know that it's never going to happen that that's never going to be in front of us and I I I can can't get give you a timeline they haven't spoke with us but my understanding is that has sold um for and then as far as how it works 10 years from now I think I um might have to use Kevin's it's hard to say what that looks like I think what we would have to do is we would have to have an agreement in place that um these parties how we've handled it for the uh single users that have a driveway in the right of way they would have to agree that the city can determine at any point that they are responsible for the cost to have do turn into a public Street when that connection's desired and then it would probably be a city driven property at that point I'm sorry City driven project at that point it might be developer driven it really it's hard to tell especially if the maintenance does become a nightmare and they want to trigger it sooner we'd also have to contemplate that so there's um we things correct me if I'm wrong but we would have do our best to try to consider these different eventualities within an agreement but we also it's it's difficult to say what changes Could Happen um legally or even just what situation is going to be in front of us in 10 years that's triggering that discussion gotcha if if I could ask with these larger Lots um you know which I I like I like the larger Lots but will will this have any impact on unrelated projects requiring you know based on the Met council's density requirements it's out no the oh it is okay thank you thank you good question lucky for the land owner congratulations can I add just a comment please um from my experience and knowing what happens with shared driveways um unfortunately it it doesn't always end well in the long term um and if there's a road planned in that area in the future of corkran and it's something that staff has set forth of of trying to adhere to I feel like it's fair to take a closer look at what that's going to look like and maybe have that as a consideration in the plan not that I'm opposed to Shared driveways I just know that that as as a rule the city has been trying to eliminate shared driveways because they do pose kind of a problem for the city in the future in future years what the experience has been so you're saying you'd like to see how it Road and how the Lots would be split up yep there yeah I would agree with that how many building rights are there in the properties to the west and the South um um if my memory serves me correct the property to the South has four as well and then the property to the West has one right now but it's possible that the remaining development right from this outlot could be uh pulled together with that and could create two lots in the future or four with an open space preservation plat and there and I'll just add there's also property rights remaining to the North and then even to the west of the property immediately West and north of that as well so there are property rights within this vicinity I'm sorry development rights within this vicinity I agree with what you said that I'd like to see how that looks it's hard to kind of make the determination without knowing how that looks um and I know we have the plat in the second edition but that's slightly going to be altered if we want that rout so if this gets approved the landing Point really for this whole Outlaw third is going to be on the west side so engineering took a look at that they would that so if the road goes north from Oakdale just the property s's going to have to plan for that and mirror it and that's simply due to this that's the safest spot to access oakal road when you say to the West there you mean like on the property line so where they're showing the private dve that's where we we want the right of way so this applicant was required to look at that they're matching where we we want them to match in terms of connecting to oldale that's that's by engineering standards and site distances and sight lines for to to it's a busy road it's got a lot of Curves and ups and downs and horizontal curves and that's the spot that we would require them to connect strongly require them to connect there's some a lot of near misses if not some fatalities in the near vicinity here uh and so the property to the West when they come in they're going to want need based on engineering standards to do that same access point just like any the properties to the sell so there's when you look at that road alignment there's only so many spots where it's you should have a connection so all the properties around here are going to want to use that Landing point and that's kind of the that's why staff myself believe it really should be the spot that we funnel the traffic through um there's the connectivity but there's also the safety in this case it's a that's a safe that meets engineering standards Landing point the other Spots Don't if we took it on as a road and took the right away um I'm assuming that wouldn't be constructed particularly soon or the if we took the RightWay and and did it the non-private drive way would the road be constructed in the foreseeable future or we it would be constructed with the development okay and so the right the RightWay parall the West property line it goes far enough North where it's going to allow some sort of access from the property to the West so you know the distance north is more tied to the lot size requirements but it's sufficient to allow the property to the west to connect to it uh that would be reviewed later but it's going to be challenging we didn't specifically evaluate the property left but knowing this area that's really the only landing spot for it that we know today so that's why we want to we would advise that you keep ability to funnel any future traffic to that spot okay thank you so I think it can't be only a private drive at A Min minimum it's got to be a RightWay that would either require street now or you could trigger a street when other events force it yeah you'd have to figure out how to word that and how how to make that binding but um probably is easiest to have it be done as part of the development to be honest mayor excuse me if I may can I can I address that point related to the uh the cost of the construction of the road the that been to the Northwest there um the if if we determine that this development is primarily benefited from it and it's on this property your probably your best opportunity as as far as the collection of the full cost to make it a public road is through this application I understand the points about it maybe not being the most practical to have a public road kind of to Nowhere at the moment but if it's going to serve this development into into the future that would be sort of the most conservative way to do that gotcha another way you could do it if you wanted to delay that consideration is you could take it as right of way have it be dedicated right way and then do an encroachment agreement over the top of it for it to be allowed to be used for this access use temporarily um the the downside of doing that is when the road is built the you know you're going to do that encroachment agreement with some sort of provision that the these properties would fund this portion of that road project you won't know the cost of that neither will the uh the owners you basically have to encumber those properties into the future with an unknown cost that will go up correct which which is the unpredictable unpredictability of that is sometimes problematic gotta thank you I think I'm leaning that way of making it a road just out of the difficulty of do trying to do it later and the difficulty that often pops up with private drives unfortunately but I'm open to what you guys think I agree I I just knowing what we know about every all the other private drives and stuff I'd rather it be that up front again it's a concept so they're taking our input and running with it so it just it it yikes okay L it's a w even work there I was going to sayless it's like a family compound where brother sisters and everybody in the whole family owns a place and somebody the agreement is somebody's got to take care of it and it goes from there but uh still can get get sold it it can get very very complicated so I think our preference and our our unofficial feedback is that we would like to to do the road there instead of the private drives um so feedback to the applicant on that regard but I I'm thinking if there's some crazy outside the box solution that we're not thinking of and staff hasn't thought of I don't know what there is but if there is an alant can bring it to us and we'd certainly love to hear it and and evaluate that as well and the recommendation would be the Kevin you said two roads one with kbon gutter and everything and one more of a rural road yeah be kind of like back to Farm Road and stuff like that okay one's ditches and the other is curb yeah depending on what you do it could matter but there's different options I believe yeah I know for for sure and osmp I don't know about this we can work with them on that but it's a pay if it's public we don't accept gravel on public roads anymore Goa so I think that covers the big issue if there any other items Council wanted to comment on or ask questions on the applicant or or staff has I think that was the biggest conflict that we needed to get some feedback on so we're good the applicant want to so a lot that you guys oh sorry my name is Mike um I'm one of the applicants I'm the son of Judith Paul um I'll kind of give you a little concept of what we're trying to do here really um so my mother she lives down in Iowa in a town called New Hampton Iowa it's a small rural town south ofest or so um in this lot we bought this lot for fact trying to build a single level on lot one the bigger lot the 28 we're trying to build a single level family home for her that kind of matches her home down in Iowa but is up here um me and Judy of course we are not lar we're not a 31 billion publicly traded company so building a city road is just not feasible for us we just don't have the do it you just can't do it um also with the building rights that are left on the properties since building rights have already been established and given away we only have four building rights left so for us to actually list these lots for sale and try to recoup the cost to build a road there's just not enough lots to be able to do so um so at that point in time we feel like now our land is the land is devalued and and no developer is going to come in and buy the land because they came and recouped the cost to sell the loots to build the city road of the infrastructure that's needed to build the city road curb gutters the city standards um my mom's not getting any younger so this is why we're trying to you know figure out a solution sooner than later um let's see here L of it Dwight did a really good job I know was to do a private drive and of course give a right away to continue the city's plans of their internal Ro Network that's been in place since 1984 um so that's kind of what our thought process was behind it in regards to the 20 acres um that right side it's all Wetland I just blew it up yep no my I can see this not much is going to happen over there yeah not much we got trail cams all over so we got dear you know we love it beautiful Creek down in Iowa has two Creeks going through it this had a creek going through it so that's kind of why we picked end up picking lot one um and really that's kind of as much as I have so I appreciate your guys' consideration and feedback and I would you know wish or strongly encourage that you kind of rethink your thoughts about the public world because again we're just m dudy just ordinary people trying to get our foot in the door and cor and become land owners and homeowners of City cork I love to do more in the community I do well I'm on a board of an association that I'm part of and I do a lot of kind of these sorts of things so I love be part of the community but again we're trying to get our foot in the door first before we can do so so yeah any questions for me that well I thought that you were very compelling you have my support thank you I appreciate can I ask um would you would you have wanted to like your family system would you occupy more than one of the Lots on the property there's been talk about it right now I live in Maple Grove um off e fish Road my brother lives in St Michael um so there's talk about my brother possibly selling and wanting to buy one of the Lots um I have a lot many friends that are interested in buying the Lots um but in regards to aninite answer I can give you answer but lot one would entail to stay in our family for generations to come as we are you know originally for my enjoy the feeling question for staff if this was only going to be developed as one lot instead of three would it require a road I think if it was one lot then I think we'd be more comfortable taking the right of way and doing a single driveway user because then we can have a clear agreement saying that you're aware and responsible that we could require this out of public Street and you'll be responsible for that cost I think we're and then we're not dealing with the maintenance concerns between multiple parties um that can continuously come up also it wouldn't be a private drive so we wouldn't have to worry about getting that variance because right now all I'm hearing are the economic considerations and I sympathize with that sincerely that can't be the reason why we Grant a variance um so that's where we get hung up but if it was a driveway for a single user I think that that is an ex we have examples of where we've put those agreements in place that I think we could uh do much easier than trying to work out a private Drive agreement that calls out for this eventuality I have a quick question oh sorry follow up okay um if there were a single property Dev sorry a single building right consumed can they do an Adu in this part of the city like if they wanted to have a primary home and then like a secondary unit for another person's part of the family is that permissible in the rural area yes we actually have two options in the rural area you can do an accessory dwelling unit of 960 ft by administrative permit square feet Sorry by administrative permit and then uh up to 1100 ft by conditional use permit so you could do that as either um uh attached unit or a detached unit so okay so then there there could be an option does that require a family it does not require a family but you cannot sub it can't be separated from the home so it's you can't try to sell the Adu that's kind there's a language in there you can't subdivide yeah you can't subdivide theoretically you could do 1100 square ft and you might be able to subdivide in this instance for a r residential later on um but if you're doing the 960 you wouldn't be able to because you wouldn't be able to meet the minimum residential standards but with a detached approach you could potentially put effectively know two units one primary and then an accessory unit which would get you part of what you want go ahead question um is there a way to kind of work with the city and forfeit a building rate so right now there's four building rates I know conversation was what's going to happen with this last building right and ideally you know the last building right would probably be on lot one is there a way to any concern of forfeiting a building right to allow this kind move forward with this process you can just leave the building rights idle associated with property forever eventually sell it to a neighbor if they have a project that they wanted Jason neighbor Jon neighbor well neighbors are Jason right but you don't have to worry about not consuming it certainly can I ask that question so that was going to be part of my question is is if you split the parcel into two the area that's all kind of like Wetland that might be a great piece of property that you could assign building rights to keep some building rights on the main parcel and assign can you do that to that other parcel so if someone were to buy that property to the right and develop it you could potentially sell to have more building rights on that parcel that's adjacent to it we're talking about the East Side putting the development rates on the east side yes or the or the west side either side okay yeah I mean the where the creek is I think that'd be really challenging to truly develop that but if it's if it's a situation where there could be buffering if it was like of interest to a developer that needed to have that space for you're saying prop the east or west right I I think I understand so you're you're saying we're asking you know could the applicant like subdivide let's say where my cursor is just like down this line here and assign the remaining development rights to this future Outlaw which could in the future be pulled together with this correct um I don't think I would recommend it because there's no access right now I don't think they need to I think if you keep that as still transfer it either way or west right you can go east west or north yeah yeah okay as an option um now you mentioned your concern about the the financial feasibility of doing the road now um do you have any thoughts on if we were able to find a way to I think it was brought up as a hypothetical earlier um to allow in the short term the private drive with the the um option that the city can then when it's when another property develops uh take it take that right away and turn it into a road and being able to fund it then you foresee that still being a problem I mean the information I've got in regards to the site I mean you're looking at you know depending on how far that road goes but let's say that far SC that cost would be I guess estimating somewhere were a public road with storm water ponding and everything that goes along with it you'd be somewhere between 500 600,000 yeah so I mean we're open putting an assessment on the house and paying it off over time but it's just again Mike and Judy is just not Capital that we have got I think it gets maybe feasible if you had like three or four Lots on the western side that were also developing and now you're splitting at eight waves or six ways instead of three but to me it seems the most feasible to think about it as a single lot and build what you want that way I'm open to exploring the other approach but you're still running a risk that way but the advantage of the single L approach cuz you don't need to worry about the road just have the rideway carved out you're just building a driveway yeah I'd say that's a potential route um and like I said if if there's some creative solution that we're not coming up with tonight we'd look you know feel free to bring it back to us and reach out and and we'd love to hear it and evaluate that um but I think in general right now sounds like council's leaning towards the the road option as as the application is right now and I would support the private d i I want to support the private Drive I just don't want the headaches down the road now why if if there are problems with the private driveway why is that a city issue why isn't that a neighbor issue it is that's for them I agree with if they can't get along uh you know I'm not paying for the plowing what do we care that's a neighborhood issue I agree I'm just being front and forward I just at one point we said we weren't going to do our city the previous council's Mayors and then some that used to be on here said we weren't going to do shared private drives anymore so I mean is it turn into turn into like the same thing that I mean you live in a a private area and you paid the roads and all of that stuff but again we're back to putting tar in and those kind of things and then they have an association amongst the three of them yes but this would be a gravel road and then when it develops to the east or west most likely the West they'd still be on the hook at some point putting in the paved road because of but then that that cost would be distributed amongst how much out there and we're I still we're talking a long time before that stuff comes out here I think but I don't know I don't have a good crystal ball that was the only comment that I was going to make in terms of uh right now the the road is cost prohibitive you're not getting rid of the cost of the road you're just delaying the cost and that's just an important distinction if if the cost of the road is prohibitive now as the cost of materials go up it's not going to get cheaper and it's still that cost is distributed just over those three homes uh because the road that goes wherever the rest of it is so that's how it hits the city if when it comes time to we have to put the road in and they they don't have the means to do it then either uh that becomes a significant City problem we may have to I just want to add to that if we do go to a scenario where we take right away and it's just a single user driveway there's still those agreements still typically have that same requirement that they are responsible for the cost of the road upgrade later on and in that situation there's only one lot now that's being assessed for the entire Road Improvement so it doesn't completely solve it again just delays it we wouldn't put in a road to serve one lot no no but if if when it'd be the same situation though where we're taking the right of weight to to allow for the Road Network for future subdivisions so when the future subdivisions to the West come in and we need to make that road connection finally now we're instead of three lots it' be one lot in one of the Creative Solutions discussed tonight which I think is a fair discussion um but if it now in that scenario it's one lot responsible for the entire upgrade of the stretch of road um and but where would it necessarily be the same stretch depending on where that house was put would it be the same length of Road it would be evaluated but I just with the data we have tonight it would be that stretch of the road because that's where the right away would be taken when we have projects like that we we don't design cost based on Frontage do we I thought it was typically the cost is split amongst the affected properties more or less evenly so the here I my understanding is the agreements we have for the single user they understand that they are responsible for the entire cost to make their driveway into a road when it comes time to make that an actual Road um and then they I believe they what is it they forfeit their assessment rates or how does it typically handle yeah I mean we've only done it for commercial users we've done it for Nelson and we've done it for Parkplace storage we so we haven't had this exact same scenario but those uh access um en Coachman agreements require them to pay their share period so it's one user the distinction being instead of a single family residence it's a business it's a cash generating Enterprise I wouldn't treat a resident that way yeah I don't think we should KRA what do another example it's not exactly similar it's spectal farms at Rush Creek there's that one driveway that goes on the future rway was that handled was that just a driveway agreement on the raway that's that's more applicable to this scenario potentially yeah not to put you on the spot just something we can work with them on how handle it now in that case the whole RightWay is on the same I believe the same Property Owners on both sides so at GI because that's all in their control where this is off of their control so these are details we'd have to work out with the city attorney and I also say in the Beck told Farm's case the reason why we we said that there was a hardship um that prevented them from putting in the road is because there is a current single family home that literally would need to be redeveloped before we could ever make that connection so that so that one's a little bit less imminent uh there's it's already been developed to some extent and so it's with it's pending future Redevelopment which is probably much further out into the future that gave you the ground for the variance that was the ground for the variance yes makes sense I don't want to say this but I will Mr Mayor if I may please the the preservation side of things where you take and double thep mhm double the available building or buildings and stuff where you take 40 make it 20 and save the other 40 preserve all of that wet land and the elevations and all of those things to the East and then give them eight development rights with that eight buildings on 40 acres so it's a slightly different concept so I know the east side is mostly Wetland and so the open space and preservation plat does require for a good majority to be Upland as and can be Wetland as well see that's why that's why you got your job that you got so good job thank you I was I was seconding there's got to be a hole in it somewhere so that's exactly it I know we we've looked at it because this isn't the first time this property's come up and that's been a suggestion um so it's not that it would be impossible but also we've been some of the other concept plans that we've reviewed for open space plats um we've talked about really wanting to see centralized open space and so this this a really challenging parcel to get centralized open space because it's mostly on that East Side possibly dumb question what if the homes instead of being single family were twin homes or duplexes those aren't allowed in our the most they could do a primary a principal structure and an Adu that would be but you wouldn't be able to sell the two different units to different parties okay so I think the saking point is that we can't seem to find a way around whether it's now or if we could find a way to give some flexibility on the timing later that cost still being prohibitive potentially for you right I think I'm not seeing a way around that but other than that um like the application um I I would like I said I would suggest if if whether it's through talking to staff or or just a creative solution that you guys come up with give me a call give us a call come on in we'll have you at another meeting and we'd love to take a look at it and see if we can figure something out you got all of us scratching our heads on it so tough one yeah I mean we like the it's a beautiful it's a beautiful open field and then and then the the creek in the back and that whole area it's awesome thank you thank you guys hope you find a way to do it yeah okay um on to 7B which is the St Thomas concept going [Music] to thanks everybody for listening to that appreciate it Natalie are you doing this one or uh Kendra is Kendra perfect all right this is a sketch plan for St Thomas the Apostle Catholic Church just down the road at the corner of can 10 in 116 feel a little tricky um the arrow is pointing uh to the parcel that we're specifically talking about the church owns three Parcels the parcel that the church and the bulk of the facilities are on right at the intersection then the parcel which is what we're going to talk about tonight and then they own an a western parcel that they and I don't recall if were gifted or purchased at a a piece of land that was part of the Rush Creek Reserve plat and uh I appreciate that this is difficult to read but it's the larger concept I think is uh important um so again the existing Church um there are some facility this is the church itself if you can see my pointer it is a little hard to see yeah it is tricky to do I'm going to have you drive right I thought I could do it I'm have you drive so you can use the pointer so the existing church will be removed and the new church constructed on the central parcel there um uh some if you go to the next slide after the new churches mov yes thank you yes and in fact I believe and the applicants can talk a little bit about this I believe the intent is to remove some of the stained glass and other features from the existing Church into the new church I hope so a lot of cool stuff yeah um so the Eastern two Parcels are guided public semi-public and Zone public institutional uh when the initial count plan was done the existing churches were were guided in zone public institutional the Western parcel is guided low density residential and zoned rsf2 and all of the parcels are in the urban service area and the southeast District the uh there's one strange thing that the survey shows the two Eastern Parcels as a single lot but um I I think we're pretty certain that they're two so we'll just need to clean that up on the survey um the church has been looking at this Redevelopment project for a long time and so we've talked a lot and I I have advocated that we combine the three parcels and make it a single site but the code does not require that and they do not want to do that so they'll be keeping the the three separate Parcels which um we'll talk about one issue that that does raise but they're building about a 14,000 foot church with 101 parking stalls um places of worship are permitted in the pi district and so as I said the existing Church would go away when the new church is constructed but the most of the other facilities on the existing lot will remain the community space for example the cemetery is on that Eastern lot and some um I think described as picnic shelters things like that uh next slide so the concept plan shows compliance with the setbacks sorry I thought I heard somebody oh no it I was just saying it's beautiful looking okay con gorgeous yeah this rendering shows it is a um brick uh building with cutstone accents um does appear to comply with everything um there it isn't clear entirely on the building height so that's something we'll need to look at church spires are exempt from uh Building height ordinance and there are some other things but Church buyers are um and so we just need to take a look at it it's possible the Bel uh the bell tower um may require a variance uh for that height we need just a little more detail to see if that falls under the exemption or not but how how tall would that be uh I don't believe it was dimensioned on the plan I didn't I didn't see it anywhere I thought it was I thought like 70 something but I could be totally wrong the you're right uh Mr Mayor it does uh the uh Eve of the bell tower is at 70 ft okay how whole how high is the current church now a little bit taller than that I don't know it is but but the church the new church building the central portion where the cross is on this building that's at 54 ft okay um and again it's a facade so there'll just be some math that we'll need to do with the architect to figure out the heights but I agree I think it's a very attractive building um uh it does comply with the ordinance standards for the materials um and certainly in the I think still design stages so there are some more details but um we'll figure out what that Bel Tower how that fits under the exemptions or not so next slide uh the parking lot is 101 parking stalls it does comply with the code requirements for a church uh facility of this size which is based on basically seat space in the sanctuary and I understand from father and from the team here that the the parking lot that they use south of 10 will no longer be needed um and so they they will let that lease expire and that crosswalk on 10 will be removed and I think can you point to that just for anybody that's not familiar with it in right in front of the church that there's a crosswalk and if and you all know that's a busy road it'll be nice to eliminate that um potential conflict um henpen county has uh looked at the plans and the applicants Engineers been meeting with them so the church driveway will align with Commerce Street street as desired and currently the plans show a right turn lane into the new church site um there is a variance that uh will be required is just an odd thing because they're keeping the lot line between the existing Community Center Cemetery lot and the new church there'll be a driveway that crosses over into that site um uh and if I'm recalling correctly most mostly to go to the cemetery um and so we'll just need to work through that but it'll be a zero setback um again if we're in the future if we ever combine the Lots we'll eliminate that problem but for now because they function as one lot but are on two lots there is a variance required for that next slide um I think a new monument is proposed on the new church parcel and um I want to um raise this early the existing sign and the corner is um for the church and when the church moves you can't have that church sign on the corner so um it can only be for the uses that are on the site and so that existing sign would need to be removed could it be replaced with something else we'll have to work through that but just want to put everybody on notice for that um the Landscaping looks good with the um one thing that's Miss thing is our buffer yards so buffer yards are required to be planted on the North it's a buffer yard D um there is a large wetland in that zone but it is not Exempted under the ordinance and then on the west adjacent to their own property that zoned rsf2 uh buffer yard C is required um neither of those have a tool in our ordinance to um provide flexibility from those standards so that that is required um okay not if we combine the but uh we are not and so because we're not we don't pay Park dedication either so park dedication is not new do on this it's a church which has a different or a public facility we would call it which has some different standards for Park dedication but it is not being ploted that is not required the new church if you go to the next slide um uh um will uh eliminate the two existing driveways on the East parcel um and the existing drive that serves the house on on this middle parcel so we'll be eliminating driveways on the County Road 10 which is good um the county cannot take additional rideway as part of this project because it's not a plat and they as I understand it are comfortable as long as that new right turn lane uh can fit into the existing right of way the new church will be connecting to Municipal sewer and water I think at this point the last conversation we had I don't think anything on the existing site is planning to connect corre um uh but it will would be available for them but they would not be required to do that um there is an existing overhead power line on this site that will need to be relocated as part of the new search Project next slide uh it's a quick question on connecting to water would that need to be an amendment to the contract with Maple Grove or or from our no Southeast was broadly in the original one so this the oneops are really related to Northeast gotcha which would kind of go away here in a couple months as long as it works good by me yeah so utilities are there it's a fairly easy connection for that so the application for this facility which is a sign significant Improvement in downtown corkran would be a simple sight plan and and dry variants at this point potentially the church Spire but I'm hoping we could work around that so that would go to Planning Commission uh and back to council but it uh would not be a public hearing um they are anxious to get going and here tonight to get feedback from the Council on their concept plan great thank you any questions from Council de I don't want to bring stuff up that causes issues either there's there's no requirement to PVE the current parking lot in front of the community room or anything like that so there's no you know me unexpected uh I'm get on that East lot I know that's why I asked you that has nothing to do with this that might be why they're keeping them all separate KRA it is iect that's I'm smarter than I look so they can remove the driveways without triggering yeah driveways without triggering other improvements to that and then Eastern part just thinking above everything this is going to go Gang Busters they're going to populate to the point their congregation's going to grow this is my vision and they'll be able to park there and walk over to the church so yeah we did talk about that they actually would need to come back and get an interim use permit for that to do yeah I mean I don't that kind of parking someone walks I'm digging up all the stuff that could come out of all of this I just the the point I mean we one of the conversations we had was so how does it work like like and and uh and uh things are a little different than when I was in Sunday school I learned um so I said you know don't you walk from from Mass over to Sunday school or back and forth and and they said really we don't have that much back back and forth um on a regular basis you tend to go to the church or to the community center so they feel like that's not going to be an issue yes on Christmas people will probably park at the community center and walk through and I do think that's something we'll want to think about how we manage um we can work through that kind of stuff right cool definely definitely definely that was everything and obviously the cemetery can't move so yeah don't want to don't want to dig that I like the architecture a lot yeah I I really appreciate that sort of classic small town community church feel that I see in the graphic um I also think that this is appropriately sized for the area overall um I had a question on the Bell Tower and if it's actually going to have working bells and if so when they will ring and for how long I don't know if you can answer that but uh well we have can you to the microphone you just address for the record yeah please state your name and address sure uh uh my name is Carl Thelen um and I am the chair of the facilities planning uh committee at St Thomas which is a a volunteer committee uh that we have worked for a number of years on um our our new church and uh understanding our needs are and understanding what our opportunities are for our church um so we' have uh worked um so many hours and we're just thrilled to be in front of you tonight to show uh the plan also want to thank your staff we've met with them multiple times as we have uh worked through this process over the last five or six years and they've been really helpful giving us guidance and uh giving us good advice on how to do our project so um as it relates to the Bel to Bell Tower it's it's a concept uh drawing at this point typically our bells are for to announce the start of mass uh and at this point we have not discussed any plans to have uh some automated Bells you know that are in some cities that go off at certain times and we haven't talked about that at all so and as it relates to the size of the Bell Tow and a few of those things um we'll work with staff to make sure that those are all um the size that they need to be um they're concept drawings at this point okay I'll add I I do like the bells I live about maybe a mile from St Thomas and I and when I hear them it just makes me feel like oh it's St Thomas yeah so I appreciate the bells they can be overdone but it sounds like that's not what they do yeah I'm I'm 3 miles away and winds when the wind's out of the East I'm sitting on on front porch and better than the train in lto going off at 2 a.m. I I love the train too so I get I do not like the train I I also would mention how much we thought of St Thomas's Heritage which has been there since 1895 yeah so um only U you know people came with horses to go to church at St Thomas so it's been an integral part of the fabric of the region and as the city is growing um it's it's very important from our heritage perspective our our little church is L out we have playing balls it's uh it's it's served uh it its time uh 30 years ago was the start of conversation starting to uh build a new church over time um we'll have the church there there'll be a narx there which you saw in your drawing packet which is a gathering space that we use um but over time you you can also see that there are potential uh future phases and and our hope is that after the church is built and paid for that our next phase someday would be to to do our church call and to do our classrooms and to really move everything into of the property be kind of to the Northwest correct got it's on the West and Northwest got so we'd really have a contigous facility um we really um have really taken note of of the setbacks uh right now we have so much traffic noise in our church uh at 5:30 our safety concerns are huge right now our Ada uh issues you know we have beautiful St teres that just has a beautiful facility and we have steps getting to our church and we have bathrooms down in the basement so a lot of our improvements is not only to morei and better size safy accessibility for our members and the community that comes as many of you come to our Parish Festival we have people from all over that come and we want to make sure we have a welcoming and accessible area with good safe parking as well so U so we really appreciate your consideration and really thank staff for all the time they spent with us as we have advice you I wanted to say thank you for your continued partnership with elections and other community events not only public space uh thank you to St Thomas Community we couldn't do a lot of things in the community without those collaborative Partnerships that was a question I don't know if you have the answer to and it's has absolutely no bearing on the application but do you know if during construction um would you still be St Thomas still be able to um like be a voting Precinct do you think yes oh so really the operation of our Parish um in in the current facility especially from the Parish Hall our Festival even up until the church is into construction we'll all remain the same awesome we are going to take because we really want to bring our heritage forward and have uh people now and in the future enjoy that Heritage we're going to take the stained glass windows out of the church stained glass windows um from the research we've done came from Germany right wow and we we hand commissioned in Germany because of our spaying walls if we actually go into the church the church walls look like this and we have three beans going across well those aren't for decoration there's there's a cable there's cables too between those to keep our but unfortunately um our beautiful windows are being damaged because they're a strange angle and so we U had to take uh five of them out that were critical condition and and really make crumble we actually had them restored up at terar Stained Glass studio up in Cold Spring and um they releted and redid those entire Windows brought them back and we put them back in the church um so we have 14 stained glass windows and we're going to all of them incorporate them all into the church so that's just a really wonderful piece of the church's Heritage that we want to keep forward and make sure yeah you don't want to get rid of that that's we have our our B that we'll incorporate into the church somehow we have some beautiful statues that actually came from St jeene down the road when that was destroyed in 1957 in a tornado uh and there's a cemetery there uh so we have elements from that church that in St Thomas that we're going to bring forward so the Heritage uh of of our parish and of this region is really important and we thought a lot about that as we've gone through this process and also thought a lot about the look of the building too that would that would fit the area and kind of the aarian tradition of of theity so so excited to continue our approval process thank you all for thank you yeah I think General Tower there's some things to work that that can be worked but other than that yeah right across 116 don't we have unlimited height in that downtown mixed use area anyway really Dam hold on seems dangerous I thought it was 45 um no we do not have a a height limit in the district standards for the while she's looking that up the pancake breakfast was outstanding on Sunday Wednesday nights you're doing meals then too so awesome yes we have meals for folks that come for f formation which is on Wednesday night y so just saying Tater time hot dish last night everybody nice so it's a it's part of our Southeast District plan because height but I don't think you'd want to change the Zone because it kind of fits no I don't but I think to fit to the area you could potentially have a 15 story building across the street from it so constraining the bell tower to 45 ft or 35 ft might not be as important as it would be if it was surrounded by houses potentially yeah I think I think it's something that can be worked through with St I'm not particularly worried about it excited I'm exed two are encouraged so um we can I can look further to make sure there's not another building height that I'm overlooking in our code but it's not clear in the dmu um but we do the idea of the downtown mixed use is that it would be multistory buildings yes gota yeah but I think it's something that can be worked through with staff like the other couple small things any sense on what your timeline might might be well yes we uh we would uh assuming we get approval process through uh this spring we would like to start doing site improvements in uh this year 2025 and get uh all of our landsite improvements done uh we're going to ring some fill in and take care of the grading we'd love to let everything settled for a year uh and then construction would uh would begin in in 26 gotcha fantastic super excited yeah thank you thank you best of luck good job all right on to oh my iPad froze there we go no froze again 7 C you guys don't need to stay for this no you're more than welcome to head out welcome to stay St I I do slides yeah so for 7c this is the of our commercial and Industrial District ordinance update uh the city council was provided data from six cities that were reviewed to just get a gauge of what other cities are doing see if there's any other Solutions out there that might reach some of our goals um specifically tonight I'm hoping to get guidance on the answer or the questions outlined in the summary portion of the packet uh to be able to come back with draft for you either at the end of March although that is a very big meeting so may be better to come back in April um heard that's a terrifying it's a terrifying meeting for me as well and I have to start next week with that meeting so F fun so um but anyway so specifically uh how do we we had kind of had a concept discussion about potentially looking at a height related transition from residential areas I Pro uh didn't really find anything very unique uh in looking at the six cities again the six cities involved were Independence Aton Medina Forest Lake Hugo and East bethl we had looked at these cities because they have a somewhat similar development pattern and that they have at least some Musa but they also have some rural as well so trying to balance the the conflict between that that arises and while trying to have new development that we are proud of so uh um anyways if we wanted to look at a height related transition I didn't find too much what I do find consistently is many cities rely on a larger setback from residential for commercial and Industrial uses and that seems to offset some of the height that you get with those other types of buildings uh however we have a 50ft setback from residential we already have something a little higher in place um I didn't see it unusual to have that increased to 100 we could certainly talk about that I did find Min Trista which was kind of when I threw in the mix they had a cup process for buildings over a certain height so that'd be another way to potentially handle that um those were the two that I noticed of significance uh how would the city like to proceed with architectural standards or a window requirement for commercial industrial buildings I believe actually this was more focused on industrial type buildings um and you know how we could also maybe handle it in our business park I continue to stand by that our Northeast District standards are already fairly High standard one thing we don't really discuss too much is window and transparency requirements and I did see that in several of the Cities reviewed um so again how would we what would we like to change with that just keeping in mind um the Northeast District only applies in the Northeast District so what do we want to maybe incorporate from the Northeast District into just our standard light industrial district how would the council like to proceed on the calculation of impervious surface limits uh I person personally would love to see some flexibility in code that allows us to apply it on a per plat basis I think it allows for um more green space to potentially be Consolidated more to the residential side so it acts more as a buffer uh and then have more of the commercial users we saw a concept plan year and a half ago where they did that um it didn't move forward but basically had the commercial uses closer to County Road 101 and then they had put their storm ponding and an outlaw shared Outlaw and if you calculated overall they were well below the imperious service limit and then that also provided a larger buffer between the residential uses to the west and the commercial uses to the east so I think it can allow for some creativity that we don't necessarily get when we are going on a per lot basis uh I think minina had the um a fairly decent example of how we could address that in our code providing some flexibility I didn't quite like theirs either um but I did propose some language um that we could discuss Natalie real quick on that when you talk about that as far as mitigation ponds those kind of things what would be the solution to curb the noise from that commercial across that to space trees um you can there fences can they have to be pretty tall and have the visual yeah so they're not favorite but yeah trees uh vegetation and in space would be ways to and the place I'm the place I was looking at was the the corner of Ste gr 101 that when that came in it was a significant distance from the Back of the Yards back of the houses to yes to the parking lots and stuff but there was nothing much that would stop the tree that stop the noise other than you know P Pine Spruce all of the stuff that would have to go so keep in mind we do still still have our buffer ordinance which requires significant planting between that's already something we have in place Ms BS and then yeah and just a variety of trees yeah I would say especially for the debuffer which is particularly required for C either C or D which typically required before between low density and commercial industrial yeah uh that that's significant planting