foreign [Music] I called to order this Corcoran Planning Commission meeting for December 1st 2022 um we'll take roll call at this time commissioner brummett here commissioner horn commissioner schulach here and commissioner Vanda 90. here all right for those who would like to join in uh we'll have the Pledge of Allegiance of the United States one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all foreign last month's at this this month's agenda are there any changes that you'd like to make commissioners okay can I have a motion to approve the agenda I'll make that motion I'll second all in favor say aye aye Nate all right now we're going to open the floor to uh anyone who would like to speak to open Forum but it's limited to the topics that are not already covered on the agenda for tonight so anyone would like to be first or everybody is here for the agenda yeah so if anyone in the crowd has something they wanted to approach the commissioner about as a blessing that's not on the agenda you can just go ahead and go to the podium I don't have any cards for that and then members of the public online if you would like to speak at the open Forum please raise your hand that should be available under the reactions tab or it looks like your own computer so it'd be under your reactions menu and Mr chair no one online is raising their hands okay may I just say one one thing I just wanted to um acknowledge that Joe and Mary um who have run Rolling Hills Ranch off of Rolling Hills Road in Corcoran are both retiring and so for the past number of years they have provided wonderful local fresh produce to Neighbors on a cart at the end of their driveway they've also had to pay what you can program they've also offered their local produce in the Medina Ballroom parking lot and I just want to acknowledge and honor their service and their work in our city and wish them well in their retirement agree thank you is that it for open for them then yep if you can go ahead and proceed we don't need to close it okay the minutes for the November 3rd meeting are there any comments or changes concerning the the minutes from last month all right all in oh do we have make a motion to approve them all right and I'll second okay all in favor say aye name okay new business um item six is the public hearing for the Pioneer Trail Industrial rezoning okay Mr chair this is a rezoning from industrial to planned unit development of preliminary planned unit development plan and a preliminary plot for a project called Pioneer Trail Industrial Park this is the property on the screen um oops is it a different way I forget this all the time that I have to use my pointer this is Pioneer Trail and Highway 55. Rolling Hills Road is off the screen this property about 56 Acres was previously approved for an industrial park in 2005. that Park was approved but did not proceed this project is the subject of an eaw that was completed earlier this year the council approved the finding of no need for Eis at their May meeting that eaw is available for anyone who's interested on the city's website and there's a lot of information in there about traffic feasibility studies I have gotten some questions about that so I want to note that a lot of the detailed information has already been addressed and I'm not going to be focusing on that during my presentation tonight but that information is available online or at City Hall so in terms of its location in the city it is in the southwest portion of the city it's this light purple area again Pioneer Trail and Highway 55 on the southern border of the city it is guided and zoned light Industrial The Proposal is to rezone it from light industrial to planned unit development and a planned unit development is for the audience I know the Commissioners know this but I'll just briefly a planned unit development is a unique zoning District created to provide some flexibility to a developer or an applicant in exchange for some PUD benefits higher standards of approval or excuse me higher standards in the development or additional benefits of some sort and that is outlined in the staff report those standards for their rezoning I'm I'm not going to go through each of those um but there are a number of PUD flexibilities that are requested that I'll touch on during the staff report and then summarize at the end so this is the project and again Pioneer Trail this is Kimberly Lane um that exists on the west side on the west side of pioneer as right-of-way not as an improved Road there's a driveway in there and then Highway 55. this is the Medina electric building and then for the Commissioners this is the garages 2 project this is that westernmost building so for a sense of context of the project so the preliminary proposal has two uh has five lots and two of them are committed and ready to go so starting on the east side there's a self-storage building here that is proposed to be developed by Park Place storage the same group that has the condominium self-storage buildings on County Road 19. a different appearance and we'll talk a little bit about the buildings appearance and then this is a Pella manufacturing distribution uh Center a warehouse distribution center not Manufacturing and then put your site for an industrial a future industrial site and potentially a gas station I would note that this this concept of a gas station was one of the things that was approved in the 2005 approval and was studied as part of the traffic analysis that was completed as part of the feasibility study and eaw earlier this year uh this is just a colored rendering of the con of the concept which gives a little bit more scale shows the surrounding properties there is residential property off of wagon wheel in this location both sides again Medina electric of the Corcoran garages 2 project and then large lot residential wrapping around the north side of the project Highway 55 here in the city of Medina to the South the preliminary PUD plan has lots ranging from of just over four to just under 17 acres in size as I mentioned um uh there are three lots that don't have users at this time but they are showing Concepts that show it could be developed in compliance with the ordinance with some exceptions that we'll talk about the um Beauty flexibility from the i1 standards are required for the gas station use um and so it's not you can't do a use variance but as part of a PUD you can incorporate uses that may not otherwise be allowed in the district and that is what they're requesting PUD flexibility in this case to allow that gas station as a potential user again they don't have a user at this time it's not part of phase one so when that's ready they'll come back for a final PUD and final plaque for those different phases but tonight we are setting the table for that to come back so the Pud flexibility is requested for a number of things um the development in advance of city sewer and water being available so this development will plan for that future extension but will provide well and septic to serve the individual buildings and that's a something that you saw on the staff report that warrant some discussion tonight I think there is a reduced parking setback from Highway 55 Highway 55 requires a hundred foot setback from the right-of-way for both parking lots and buildings you can reduce that parking setback through additional landscaping and the developer is asking not to do that but to get a variance so that they don't have to add the additional Landscaping along Highway 55. they're asking for an 18-foot parking setback from Kimberly Lane which is the new public Street running through the site for Lots one two and three block one that's the Lots on the south and a 36 foot parking setback for the Lots from Kimberly Lane for the Lots on the North um those parking setbacks would typically be in the industrial district 50 feet some of you remember we had a long discussion about that not so long ago um additional additional PUD flexibility is requested for the wall signage for the Lots on the south side of Kimberly Lane along Highway 55. our code allows wall signage on one wall where the main entrance is it allows 10 percent of that wall area that assigned they are not requesting more sign area but they're asking that that 10 percent be split between the Kimberly Lane elevation and the Highway 55 elevation the um industrial buildings on the North side they're requesting insulated metal panels as the primary building material that was reviewed by the council as part of the concept plan and the council did support that it's not a our agricultural type of a metal it is a finished material that our code doesn't allow but is something we're seeing more in industrial applications and the council did support that at the concept level this is a big site and they're asking that the landscaping that's required on the individual Lots be applied instead across the whole site what that does is it actually allows them to concentrate some of the Landscaping on the northwest near the homes on Wagon Wheel Trail but some of the individual Lots then will have less Landscaping that would typically be required they did ask for a reduction in the number of landscape shrubs for lots of one and two block two again on the North side citing some challenges with um fitting them on site we're going to debate that a little bit later I'm going to raise that when we talk about Landscaping they did ask that impervious surface area like the Landscaping be calculated on a project-wide basis continuing continuing to apply with the i1 standard but allowing some lots to exceed it so that it can be offset by Green Space otherwear otherwear elsewhere thanks Natalie I was gonna get there eventually creation about lot a without Frontage Outlet a is a future city Well site we're comfortable with that being created without Frontage we typically require a variance but it would be a Pity flexibility here and in exchange the main flexibility of the applicant indicated a number of things in their staff report what staff believes the flexibility is are the three things listed there the dedication of Outlaw a to the city for a future Well site preservation of existing trees along the south side of the Wagon Wheel properties and creating a commercial industrial tax base in advance of city services being available to service the project so with that Foundation the beauty flexibility to allow the metal panels in the lower right here this is the concept for the Mini Storage they would have to come back with the beauty final plan to council and get the final details fleshed out but with a mix of colors those materials could be approved as part of the Pud flexibility and staff is comfortable with those for those metal buildings they would ask for the flexibility to allow that on lot one north of Kimberly as well where we don't have a proposal right now that's the future site and again if the material if the council believes the material and Planning Commission believes the material is acceptable that seems reasonable to allow it next door as well um the it's important to note that the mini storage buildings are oriented so the overhead doors are interior to the site so none of those Overhead Doors face any of the public streets or surrounding Residential Properties the Pella building has um precast concrete panels to add some interest to the facade they have added clear story Windows Second Story Windows you can see on the Second Story this is the East Elevation yeah East Elevation I think it is and this is the north elevation so uh near the office component there's a lot of glass they do break up the building um nicely you can see there's some articulation on the roof line it's not a lot but where there's a color change there's a little higher roof line in this location the clear story will Windows and the change in color help break up the mass of that building but the Planning Commission sure could talk about that as part of the Pud flexibility does this meet the intent it meets the i-1 standards um but it's something that it is a large building you could certainly talk more about that but again I think they've done a nice job um on the double story glass in the office portion of the site uh ground mounted equipment rooftop equipment all exterior trash enclosures need to be screened we're missing some of that detail with the project this size that's not unusual but we've included conditions to address that infrastructure is um uh really a key issue with this project again we did an eaw an environmental assessment worksheet earlier this year which included an infrastructure feasibility study that study outlined all of the required improvements in a lot of detail and again I'm not going to repeat all of that I'm certainly happy to answer questions but just at a high level this project on the screen is right here and this is the South West District plan that's been in place since at least 2004 so more than 20 years showing ultimately a connection from Pioneer Trio to Rolling Hills Road to the East and ultimately out to 19 to the West this has been a long-term uh vision for the city and midnight mndot's goal is to limit access points onto Highway 55 and this is part of a joint effort as part of the Highway 55 Corridor study many many years ago and the City so this project does not make a connection to Rolling Hills Road but this project is part of a planned future connection there so as part of this project they will build the portion of Kimberly Lane that is within their project all of their Lots will have access to Kimberly Lane only they will not have access onto Highway 55. turn lanes are planned on Pioneer Lane both on Pioneer Lane into the site and on the high Pioneer Trail 55 intersection um again I mentioned this is an area that's planned to be served by sewer and water however in our comprehensive plan this is a study area the Met Council this has been in the Musa for a long time and but the Met Council doesn't have a way to serve this site and so they have committed to doing a study to look at how to serve this site with sewer and water but that is not likely to occur until our next round of comp plan updates which is what is that six years away something like that something like that and so the council did support allowing this to move forward on well and septic with the acknowledgment that we're planning for that sewer and water in the future to be connected and so there is a small utility Corridor on the south side of Kimberly Lane internet electric and future Municipal services on the north side of Kimberly Lane in the future um we note in the staff report some concerns about some of the septic sites particularly on the and maybe I can show it better on the next page but they are responsible for protecting those septic sites and make sure that they are viable septic sites Hennepin County has reviewed the septic sites and given preliminary approval and they'll just need to be protected during this construction process because some of them are in areas that are potentially ripe for impact and we need to protect those sites um outlawed a as I mentioned will be deeded to the city for a future Well site not a water tower site but a Well site and stormwater ponding is provided so Outlaw a is in this northeast corner of the site and that is a future water tower site that would be accessed off of Kimberly sorry give me a second to correct myself next time sometimes I misspeak I apologize I can usually correct myself so it is not a water tower site it is a Well site and the access to that well site is off of Kimberly up to this location the um the thing that I want the commission to be aware of and I think it's manageable but you need to be aware the septic sites for um the pelicite are here the septic sites for this lot here are also here and so this sewer septic connection across the pelasite to these septic sites we need more information from the applicant about how that's going to happen and how it's going to be protected throughout the construction process and how these four septic sites are going to be protected we've got a landscaping very near those septic sites I have personally experienced trees destroying my septic system by Roots getting in there so we want to be very careful about the tree species selected and it is their responsibility to ensure that those don't fail um most of us who most of you I don't live on courtroom but I do have a septic system you have septic systems and you know that if it fails then there is a solution which is to have a regular pumpkin pumping program so it isn't a fatal flaw but it is something we want to avoid so we really want to be careful to protect those systems uh the Landscaping plan again is fairly robust the Landscaping plan itself is intended as I said to be applied across the site so more Landscaping can be focused over here the plan does require 624 overstory trees and 1400 shrubs they do meet the tree requirement but they fall short of the shrub requirement and are asking for flexibility to not comply on the Northern Lots the plans however do show compliance for this lot so the staff report is written to provide flexibility on those shrubs but the Planning Commission may want to discuss that and consider chain you could change the the result draft resolution should you recommend approval again this does comply although they're asking for beauty flexibility we note in the staff report though that we would like to see additional Landscaping in this area I think there's some gaps up against these Residential Properties here that should be filled in it's a little hard to tell at this scale I know but when you look at your detailed plan think a little more robust Landscaping here against these uh self-storage buildings is still possible um additionally any parking areas with four or more stalls do require headlight screening and that Shrubbery is missing you can see on this that Shrubbery is missing from the plans the applicants plans do note they acknowledge that it needs to be there but at this level felt like it would get lost in the plans so that is something we'll see with the final PUD and it will be provided so you'll note that it's not meeting code here but they know they'll add those shrubs to comply the preliminary plot is for five Lots as I said uh including one Outlaw for Outlaw Outlet a for the city this again is the list of beauty flexibility um I went through this once I mentioned that they are asking for reduced number of shrubs for the Lots on the north side of Kimberly but that lot to um excuse me lot one actually shows compliance so you may want to talk a little bit about that the applicant is here as well and could probably address that so I think they're trying to build in as much flexibility as possible but right now the plans show that they could comply with the concept that they have if that building were bigger than the building shown on that lot they may have a trouble meeting that shrub requirement because remember as the building gets bigger the tree and shrub count gets uh higher um there is a lot in the packet it's a high level overview this is a public hearing and the Planning Commission should take public testimony and then the Planning Commission has two options if they find that the ordinance standards have been met you should recommend approval of the four resolutions and ordinances if you find that the ordinance standards have not been met you should recommend approval of the resolution denying the request there's a draft in your packet for that if there's information that's missing that you need you always have the option to table and request that information as well uh and then the applicant is here um and we do have a number of comments uh I would note one of the speakers uh did drop off some information that I know he'll touch on so we'll include this in the console packet when it moves forward um with that Mr chair I'd be happy to answer any questions from the commission okay thank you do we have any questions for the planners the only question that I had was um the Pud benefit of the Well site being deeded to the city is something that had come up and with other um properties that have come before so I'm looking for what is the target number of potential well sites that the city is wants to gain anybody know S I don't know off the top of my head I can look in the comp plan okay no problem yeah but is it like hundreds or is it like tens 20s there's I think there's two potential sites in the northeast southeast and Southwest but I'm not certain so I'm going to look in the comp plan okay that was my only um specific question add a specific question regarding the lieutenant Burns memo that was in the packet and the need for fire access around the entirety of building E I know you did mention the need for landscaping maybe additional Landscaping Northeast of the site when I just noted that comment that that actually could cause some complications for that so I don't know if that comment has been addressed with the applicant yet or not or what the outcome of that comment may be yeah um so the applicant has received uh the the staff Report with all the conditions and I know they're probably prepared to talk a little bit about some of that I think staff's opinion is that the that Mini Storage site needs to be redesigned in order to accommodate that and that's going to result in a number of changes that's not unusual but that is something that we think is likely to have a couple of different ripples okay and then the other common question I had is obviously there's been a lot of studies on this site um it's been around for a long time there's been a auar and eaw planning for utilities planning for Access off of 55 so part of the overall plan is to remain consistent with a lot of those past studies so there's a fair amount of History that's happened in the past 15 to 20 years relative to potential development on the site correct that is correct foreign normally do the I think this is just to ask clarifying questions oh oh on your on your and then we have it and then we should okay for the public hearing definitely okay but if you have if there's anything in her report you want a clarification on open it up to the uh the public here um those who are in person will get the first opportunity to speak yes I have some carts so first we have Todd Albers like to please approach the podium and please state your name and address for the record again thank you hi thank you my name is Todd Albers I live at 4800 cubby Trail in Medina Minnesota if you go back to the project plan I'd like to just point off my property uh as it's relent of the relationship to this particular applicant or application we'll pull it up we have to do that I know but I don't want to do it with me so I have my concern and I handed out a packet to each of the Commissioners tonight is the impacting the drainage salt to the project onto my property uh you know talking to our city planner and zyna he often says that most people don't want your age I'm actually looking for the drainage right now a lot of the slope that comes off the property on the northeast flows into a wetland that I have on my pond on my property which is in a wetland Bank the conservation easement and my concern is that around a third of the water would be essentially potentially impacted so the surface area of of the the Watershed or my particular Wetland and so what I'd like to understand is how the applicant is going to address that with this particular project so for example my property is this here in Medina I have roughly about 500 feet of Frontage on right just south of the propeller building I also had some concerns about the setback of the um of the loading docks so for Medina our residential area you have to have 300 feet set back for any loading area but I think if I did the measurements correctly it's around 350 feet from the dock doors to my property line which would be right here on 55. I think not sure but if it's not within if it's within 300 feet then I think you have to comply with Medina rules as it's the concerning setbacks for lead Industrial in in loading areas um the other concern I have is as I look this way like you shed is going to be impacted you're going to put right here potentially that quick pick your gas station and that you know with the 24 hours and the lights you know that's going to impact what I'm going to see I'm assuming the people here too would not be very happy with having a gas station there with the traffic and the lights the other thing with the pillow building here and the signage on 55 I'm going to see that sign um and so that's going to impact you know life you shed uh and then lastly just overall noise um I don't know what the hours of operation are if it's going to be uh you know eight to five or 24 hours but trucks backing in and out of those loading docks it's going to get pretty annoying when it seem to that beeping so that's it Commissioners thank you thank you Mr hours we have Sarah [Music] good evening my name is 6230 Rolling Hills Road so I have this evening I have two questions the first is what happened to the initial comprehensive plan they had the frontage road running parallel to Highway 55 and my second question When developing an area are you doing what's right for the current and future citizens of corporate on the city of Portland's website there's Federal values listed it seems that this proposal is in conflict with at least three of these values and these include Community safety transparency and responsibility to make for safety the proposed Rome is a safety concern for the residents that have a joining property to the road as well as safety issue having the Road intersect being on the hill of Rolling Hills Road this intersection is too dangerous or these are an eating hidden driveway on both sides of the hill and to enter the driveway on top of the hills need to be exactly on top of the hill before you can see if any there is any oncoming cars coming the proposal to extend this road to Rolling Hills both needs to be reconsidered and then transparency for anyone living on Rolling Hills Road there has been no communication that indicates that the city has proposed development in this area this is only by chance I heard of this proposal and third responsible decision making be responsible decisions takes into consideration safety character of the city as well as what is best for not only the current residents but future residents as well the development of this area's attack corporate said on with the corcoran's website should address difficult issues now in order to avoid a large more difficult difficult issues in the future one future item that is of concern is that the current location of the proposed Road would come out to Rolling Silk Road this location affects and its occurrence is of concern to many riddance please do the right thing and do not construct a role that affects Residential Properties and the safety of all vehicles the front of the grilled along 55 would be a safer choice and it would affect fewer residential areas thank you thank you Ms latola and next we have Len roaring I apologize Lynn can you please um for the record just State your full name and address with proposalism behind in front of you is which truly disrupt a lot of my neighbors here view of that property specifically the gas station is concern to me because we think the gentlemen spoke of the light on the traffic 24 hours a day it's really poor debt here with three sides of growth on the property which is not look and feel cheaper so um the very least I would ask that you consider denying that portion of it something else some other facility maybe a gas station whole different element in the whole rest of the project specifically for Wagon Wheel Lane residents we will have roads on two sides of our property that doesn't happen here in Minneapolis so you talk about a verbal that's not wrong so number six in the beauty thing talk about the reasonable enjoyment for the property this woman in the impact that right now my grandkids can run in the backyard I don't have to worry about them who knows who is going to pack my enjoyment on the property I'll be ready to talk about drainage we've got some concerns but where all this stuff goes the lack of water system is septic it's a concern to me I don't keep I don't plan to know all the specifics of that stuff but you put that many people in the septic system I know my septic system has a lot of money and there's only a couple of us using it we multiplying it out I'm concerned so the biggest thing assuming the rest of it right I guess at the very least I would like to make sure that we have enough screenings and a lot of type of trees and things we want to not be able to see that road I don't want to see those buildings by reducing looking at my window now I look at the hill where the storage says are going to be to reduce the number of trees that are there I'm going to see those buildings that's not going to be today I like my corned beefs um you get one thing to tackle and they're going to save existing trades on the property I don't know that there's that many trees that they're saving while I was our property so again I want to make sure that the trees are well constructed off the blocks into that and lastly part of my rural field is I like it darling so you put a lot of lights in the back there and the Yoshi four seven gas station that impacts the quality of the world community that I am thank you Mr Eric now we have Robert costan hello Robert Gaston it's 22741 Wagon Wheel Lane I'm going to be the last lot of wagon wheel on the low points right next to the Wetland that's going to be sitting there uh council member thank you for allowing me to voice my concerns over the proposed Pioneer development plan and spent a lot of time combing through the plans and I've become concerned over several submitted plans I'm gonna I've been a member of Wagon Wheel Lane for five years now When selecting our home we sought to move out to an area that supplied a quiet area that fit our values to supply the quiet life that we wanted yeah we feel that living our living plan is in jeopardy Our concern is that the public with appellate building plans all of the projects submitted a road where we built adjacent to our back lot this road will be a busy street recording the plans it'll be the only access to the warehouse and expansion to Rolling Hills will not be built for several years the access to Rolling Hills should also be tied in also look at the plans that are proposing 168 parking spots with one spot for every two employees this means they are planning to do two shifts that's going to run approximately 8 A.M until midnight 386 cars will travel this path with more than on the horizon as expansion is also part of that plan resident Warehouse they have 18 truck spots planned in that as well it is a very conservative estimate to plan there being two to three trucks a daily considering they'll be doing not only storage but Manufacturing this means that 36 to 54 semis will be rolling through my backyard at all hours of day and night this creates a lot of traffic and noise in the neighborhood that is zoned low density residential this clearly is a matter that will affect how an adverse effect on the enjoyment of the existing neighborhood can any of the people on this Council or commission want to have a road that busy running through their backyard plans it looks like it's a long distance from my back door to that road it's 20 yards um this will have an adverse effects on the neighborhood this is item six page six on your things for you guys to consider the developers plan to have no way to combat this noise issues there is no sound wall there's insufficient blockage from the road being proposed how does the city plan on compensating the Davis on the north side of this world and why is an industrial Zone being put in the middle of a sparse density residential area it will go for Rural living to having an open space occupied all by buildings another concern is traffic on the intersection of 55 and Pioneer trip this intersection has already been had share of fatal accidents the stoplight would be required is nearly impossible to go east in the morning and West at night the only other route required to take to Pioneer Trail to c29 this is a narrow winding road which requires satellite adaptation as well the amount of traffic through these intersections would create a burden on the public streets and back up an already congested 55. so this would create a burden on the public streets which is 0.5 page five under things to consider traffic will not only increase as the other proposed buildings are constructed as the residents regularly affected by the development we ask that you turn down this rezoning proposal the location does not make sense and doesn't take into consideration the pre-existing neighborhood that has been there since 1979. we live in an area that is because it is peaceful and quiet that it offers we do not want to live in a warehouse district with a trucking land running through our backyards thank you Mr Gaston and then um the last card I have is for Jennifer Gaston thank you hello I'm Jennifer Gaston I'm also at 22741 Wagon Wheel Lane and I thank you guys for giving us the opportunity to be able to come and express our concerns proposal I'm going to expand on a few things that my husband Robert talked about we're probably the newest to the neighborhood my husband and I work really really hard to be able to move to a property like we have now we previously lived in a very popular and subtle area of the Cities but it was not the area where we wanted to raise our family we sought out a home in the country so that we could fulfill our goal to raise our family in a way away from the city life and to have land where we've had a quiet rural experience we feel very lucky to be living on Wagon Wheel Lane and it has opened up the opportunity to provide a very safe and wonderful environment for us and for our family now the proposed development we lose all the things that brought us to the neighborhood everything we moved away from will literally be in our backyard as my husband had previously mentioned the develop will bring a large amount of traffic right to our property lines as well as the adjoining streets if anyone has ever tried to turn onto Highway 55 from Pioneer Trail we'll know the current pain point we already have bringing three times the amount of traffic to this intersection as well as the side streets is going to create a nightmare for traffic it will dramatically increase the amount of accidents and heavy traffic on all of those roads the development will also bring a significant amount of people into our area that normally wouldn't be there this is my major concern not only will we go from a non-developed area we will also bring people into the area that normally wouldn't be there between the amount of people with the construction and then the amount of people working in this area there will be a large influx of strangers coming into this area with the rise in crime the cities have to have has been seen lately there will be more opportunities for this to come into our neighborhood our children can no longer play and be on our property without supervision we can no longer leave our animals unattended on our property I will no longer feel a hundred percent safe in my home working by myself every day our properties in general were not will not be safe currently we can leave our cars in our driveway unlocked and have no worries we can leave things out on our driveway and we don't have to worry about blocking any of that up this will change once this development is built the safety of our neighborhood will be gone I know there's a lot more concerns that we have with the construction and the buildings and how it will impact our our properties I know we live short amount of time um to speak on this otherwise we could elaborate but will the city be doing anything to make sure that this instruction does not have any impact um or adverse effects on our property like water runoff do we know with having this industrial area so close to our properties what will that do to our property value and we'll we even and what will the resalability of our homes be with all of this in the area we sincerely hope that you take all of our concerns into consideration we do know the benefits for the city and the benefits you will see so we are hoping that you will look at the impacts of your citizens as much if not more than the financial benefits of the city will thank you Ms Gustin we have no further cards for in-person comments um however if someone would like to speak that didn't turn in a card please feel free to approach the podium and the members of the public on Zoom if you would like to participate in the public hearing for the Pioneer Trail Industrial Park please raise your hand if you're on a computer or mobile device this will be a function of the reactions menu at the bottom of your screen if you're on a phone you would press star 9. and Mr chair no one online is raising their hand at this time okay anyone else from the public my name is Deb janick I moved to 6300 Pioneer Trail that's I'm the first house when you come up of 55 Pioneer Trail on right side I moved out here from Plymouth because I wanted to have that experience of having that country you know where you can just breathe and so what I have learned almost five years now is that I'm glad I cut my whole yard in practically because the traffic is insane coming up Pioneer Trail heading towards 19. it's always way too fast it's always way too loud there are so many cars coming through there it is insane and nobody follows the speed limit I noticed that you finally put down the speed limit to 30 rather than 40 well now they go you know maybe 40. they don't follow the rules they know that will not count towards your time so please continue so quick question for you my property backs right up to that Kimberly Lane that right away that's behind my property is that where you guys are talking about putting a road in right there are you um we typically answered everyone's questions okay that's your property there you think it's okay this is that yeah okay this is what they're saying okay so there's a right away right in here where is that then so she's suggesting there's some type of right away around here yeah we would certainly be happy to do you want to do this now Mr chair or do you want to wait to the questions and we can come back to it and answer the question okay yeah why don't we wait and get all the information first and then he has so many for us to go to all these lights and such is going to be very impactful um to the piece in that area the quiet and that area and the actual overall feeling of getting home so um I really would like to ask you guys to very much consider this that this is a very congested area and it's a small area that you are impacting a lot of people blah blah thank you thank you Ms Jenny and those of you on Zoom if you're speaking out of turn and staying obscenities you will be removed from the meeting and please keep your cameras off as well otherwise you will be removed from the meeting thank you if there are no other comments then we could close the yes of the proposed development I was not considered an effective neighbor even though this is going to be right on top of where my mailbox is where I come every day I get out of my car I am almost run over on a daily basis fighting on cars that come flying off of 55 at 60 miles an hour onto Pioneer Trail using it as a bypass when you add in a proposed gas station the amount of safety concern is tremendous we have people dumping on our property on a monthly basis the trash of people just dumping stuff out of their cars and if you're going to bring in 300 some cars a day to this development that's just going to increase the amount of traffic safety concerns that you know not to mention all the water Runner the lights the noise these things need to be addressed with the people who currently lived in this area we have been here in a rural environment that we tout we need to keep our homeowners safe and happy first before we go to adding in gas stations and trucks thank you Mrs S anyone else yes sir my name is Jim I didn't sign up anything to speak I can you provide your foreign and the phone number is seven six no no no no no just the address address just your address two zero zero Rolling Hills Road Hamilton work five five three four zero please put the map back up and I'll show you where I live well she's doing that this is a classic case a classic case of putting the cart before the horse the console of the Planning Commission set where the roads are going to go when the municipal Waters come in and for God's sakes when is the sewer coming in I don't see much in this document that uh Carries On with those uh or answers any of those questions so I guess in a nutshell I think the best thing to eat planning commissioning to do right now is say no to the entire project and uh just put it on almost permanent old until we get the roads in the sidewalks in the water and the sewering and if these people that want this project to go forth it really should spend their efforts on the Metropolitan water to sewer people because they're the ones that actually set the phone for growth for corporate and in other areas that look here no I didn't I can tell you that I sat in your seats for a while myself years ago I moved in here in January 1969. I'm an old guy real old and uh when we moved in there was snow like up to air and I remember I had one little shovel and no long driveway and lo and behold here over the road or over the hill from the village greater it didn't help us no problem and put a blade on the front of this greater and uh I got along pretty good for the guy running the grater and I could see the outline of the bottle in his back pocket full of portions of a great big portion of Southern uh Corbin had done tonight but I live right you know is this Rolling Hills Road you're not on the map just on the edge yeah right here no no Rolling Hills is not on the map it's not on the map okay I'm right next to the storage units on Rolling Hills Road so um Rolling Hills Road we don't need any more if you want to make a lecture to go to work Thursday morning stopped down there about 7 30 quarter day and wait and wait and wait because Highway 55 is closed again 15 cars of Rolling Hills Road waiting to get onto the highway still of that intersection if you move closely in the grass you'll still see two small crosses foreign has been approved by making it three lanes right there instead of just two but uh I don't know what more we can do where is the road that they're talking about that's going to this new development does it come up or Rolling Hills Road I heard it no you're saying no so you know where it goes I'm one of the council members it's up there and it it is comes off a Pioneer Trail and that ends on the Far Eastern side of this development okay and what I heard was wrong let me finish Mr chair if I make yes as Kendra mentioned folks there's been a plan for this since the early 2000s we talk about being responsible those kind of things we've got a concept for roads and those kind of things that cul-de-sac Kimberly Lane will dead end it'll be a cul-de-sac and at some point in the future it'll hook the Rolling Hills Road and that's what all of these volunteers are doing right now trying to make good decisions me as a council member I'm a resident and I'm trying to make good decisions along with four other people on the council that would be council members and the mayor we are absolutely thrilled with the participation the information you all are giving these folks recommend to the council and then we make the final decision on the council so good input every one of you in closing again this puts the card in front of the horse thank you Mr reader anyone else so can I have a motion to close the public hearing motion second second all in favor say aye aye all right the staff um you'd like to respond to some of the questions sure um so there were a number of comments about drainage and concerns about drainage and runoff engineering has uh had reviewed this as part of the eaw in Broad context along with the DNR and the Watershed as when this development application came in they did review the development application the staff report includes their memo with a number of conditions the applicants required to comply with City Watershed and state regulations require regarding stormwater runoff and so um I would encourage folks who have a specific question to reach out to the city engineer to speak to him about exactly how it's being handled but with the conditions in the staff report the site would be in comply with compliance excuse me with those regulations there was a concern about signage um invisibility the sign signage would all need to comply with our sign ordinance lighting standards we do have lighting standards related to how bright the signs can be but certainly the sites signs facing uh property likely would be visible we don't have conditions on hours of operations for uh wall lights that is something the council could and Planning Commission could talk about we have nothing that limits it to hours of the business operation anything like that so it could be 24 hours a day but with a PUD you'd have some ability to put some limits on that if you wish um loading docks the loading docks as I said in the staff report do comply with our ordinance requirements we talked about this a little bit last month if it's within 300 feet of residential property it needs to be completely screened by the intervening building none of these are within 300 feet of residential property but they even in that case they do need screening and so we do think that there is screening that is provided if the commission feels that more screening is provided you absolutely can attach additional conditions to that um there was uh comments about noise the site does need to comply with mpca standards for noise there's no exception for that so noise standards do have to comply with the state regulations um there was a comment about the why isn't the frontage road complying with the comp plan this Frontage Road actually is exactly complying with the comprehensive plan the comprehensive plan has always shown it on the south side of the Wagon Wheel properties because it needs to be that far away from Highway 55 in order to get a safe distance for stacking and turning so this is consistent with the comprehensive plan that I said has been in place for more than 20 years um there is a long-term plan to connect it to Rolling Hills Road there were several comments about it this project will not make that connection if the properties to the east develop over time there are two properties between this property and Rolling Hills Road as they develop we would look to build those sections of the road um they're was a question about our comment about the gas station that is a PUD flexibility that's something certainly the commission should talk about whether that's appropriate in this location um there there are properties on Rolling Hill or excuse me on Wagon Wheel that in fact there were comments about will they have two Street frontages and yes they will that right-of-way will about their rear yards and that's where that road needs to be to make a safe distance so I think what we tried to do in 2005 when the other project was approved and we should be focusing on today is making sure that there's as much screening as possible in there um to provide that buffer and so if the screening that's proposed is not enough there are things that we Planning Commission and council could add fencing or other things to add more screening there is limited space in there because that's the future corridor for the sewer um but there could be some Landscaping in the interim at least that if we acknowledge that it might be removed in the future that it will be removed in the future when sewer and water come back um I think somebody commented that the tree preservation plan um uh may be reflecting trees on their property on this property so we'll take another look at that before Council and make sure there does appear to be a little bit of inconsistency between the plan sheets about what trees are being preserved and where they are um a lot of comments about traffic and yes this will have more traffic than the vacant property but the traffic engineer has reviewed it um and I would say that this was part of the traffic study but um just for the audience the commission is aware of this so on Highway 55 and Pioneer Trail in the short term they're going to need to widen the South ground approach to provide a dedicated left turn lane and a through right turn lane and install uh um traffic control and there are also Pioneer access the access off a Pioneer into the project they'll need to construct a westbound approach with a dedicated right and left turn lane in the project and a Northbound turn lane on Pioneer Trail and then as always mndot's going to have the final say on when what triggers a traffic signal and so at this point when we did the eaw this didn't meet the warrants for a traffic signal at Pioneer in 55 and so that's something that is required in the MnDOT requirements is to do a I think it's called an ice study so uh to see if a signal is warranted but at this point um traffic signal may not be warranted so we'll finalize that with the engineer we did have in the study though that if a signal is required they are responsible for installing the traffic uh traffic signal control um but uh but the traffic is consistent with those improvements is within the acceptable range as a per engineering standards putting their according to their analysis um I think um certainly if there are issues about um trash um or speeding Public Safety can certainly be contacted about the speeding um and I think [Music] unless you had something else I think where those were the questions okay okay may I ask for a five minute break before we begin with the commission discussions and recommendations thank you no no worries just so that everyone knows I'm not stopping the recording so thank you thank you how did you type that fast okay amazing recording stopped oh you did stop it that's the zoom one so there's this one that I'm not stopping because that one's a pain I don't know um [Music] is I don't want to repeat it but they said the p word in Spanish and I know what that means oh okay I I I do know something I love it babe um [Music] another person inside oh he changed his name to something that I also think was a swear word in Spanish um that one yeah yeah well you could argue about it yes sir and welcome here well so a lot of the information is available on the city's website in their Maps looks at the city's website I do oh buddy um and so anything ahead of time the Public Notices would have been posted um when this was originally so like when it was originally rezoned from probably cultural to light industrial they would have held a public hearing just like they did tonight but that would have happened in 2005 it was late industrial it's been 1969. was it wasn't it's been I thought it was rezoned to light Industrial in the early 2000s I had it converted to residential to protect my butt oh where you are sure yeah well that's your break until Halloween when all of those decisions would have been made that's when they post the public notice or public hearing so it's been owned for a long time but the first proposal for development um didn't they never they never it was approved by the council in the 2000s but it just never made it all the way through so then there's all of their approvals expired I wonder if I have it so I'm not sure back then you know how they would have posted so nobody got anything in the mail the only ones who would have received any kind of action notifications on the website they post it out here there's a public notice posted on the front and then they put up a big blue sign that says it's proposed um well do you know Joe and Mary of Rolling Hills Ranch okay just down the road no okay recording in progress yeah [Music] okay at this point we'd like to hear from the developer of this project good evening I'm Joe raddick with concierge development I'm representing the landowners and the Development Group here for the project tonight um we're excited to be here it's been a long time coming we've been in front of the Planning Commission and city council numerous times over the last few years with this project and finally have some users that are looking to locate in the city of Corcoran one of which is hella telewindows you guys probably all know them we're pretty excited to have them uh the other group is Parkway storage they're Log Cabin residents of the city of Corcoran and looking to expand on this piece of property so we're happy to be in front of you tonight um here to answer questions there's been some comments Kendra did a good job answering the questions um presenting the project if there's specific questions I'm happy to answer them thank you I I if you don't mind I'll jump thank you go ahead jump in yeah I did have a question I guess that would be for you so on um page uh eight here had talked about the um some of the setbacks and stuff and the Landscaping so you're kind of the staff report talking about the applicant is choosing to apply for PD flexibility rather than add the additional Landscaping this is towards 55. I was curious what the is there a reason for that well there's a couple reasons primarily the one of the major assets of the site is visibility to highway 55. so if we burn that off and put up all the trees and hide our buildings that devalues the property right people want to locate here because it has Frontage on highway 55. so we want I mean we're providing landscaping and currently landscape requirements are pretty pretty high for this type of zoning like industrial zones yeah software have nowhere near the requirements that the city department does that doesn't mean it's a bad thing I'm just providing context but we want our buildings to be miserable s it's a huge asset it's free advertisement signage I mean that's why people want one of them kind of tying to that and maybe this is for us the parking setback of 18 feet of the one and we talked about this I think with some other ones that were in our downtown Corcoran here what's the impact and maybe this goal if there's a reason but also what's the impact To Us by allowing that I could I could you put up the concept Kendra so as she's putting that up I'll just talk briefly about that so um as Kendra has indicated we are required to provide a public stream through the property from east to west um and it kind of bifurcates the property into two sections we have the cell section running on Highway 55 and then the north section um industrial buildings it's hard to make them viable when they're 100 feet deep there's kind of a minimum Dimension that makes them feasible for the marketplace we've set our buildings at 180 feet deep which allows the 120 Foot Truck board it allows a two-sided parking court on the front side of the building and then we've kind of snaked the road through there to where it needs to go to kind of meet those minimum requirements if we were to meet the setbacks we would lose 30 feet on the south side and then another 32 feet on the North side that makes those buildings 100 feet deep that's just it's not a viable option um Kendra I know this project was approved in 2005 under a PUD and I don't know if we've shared that site minor if that would be worthwhile but I feel like what we're proposing here is less impactful than what the previous project that was approved oh and um I feel like what we're putting we're putting better for provides a lot more impacts throughout um so but to your question is is we can't build buildings that are 100 feet deep that's fair nobody the Bible if he's going to rent the movies so for us as a city is there I mean we have the setbacks for a reason I mean apart from maybe visually just being more open with some of our goals is there an impact to us not having that kind of it certainly is I mean it makes the infrastructure more challenging so we have less space to fit the utilities and the landscaping and those kinds of things in that space it's possible and we're working with them to make that happen but that's where we lose the flexibility about our utility spacing and how that all Lays out so that's the cost to us but you know again if if they can make it work that's what we're worried about is making sure we have space preserved for utilities and you know with joint trenching and things it's easier to do than it used to be so that's the thing we need to be aware of okay and then I I mean that this isn't necessarily for you but my just a comment on that on the um the gas station I I don't know I mean I know for me if I I mean I'm a resident here too I mean there's no way I'd want a gas station if it's not out I mean part of the problem for for those I mean I haven't been doing this that long but I've kind of realized now like the stuff that's in our comp plan is sort of sort of sort of law right now so there's not a lot we can stop per se with this is I mean you guys correct me if we're wrong we kind of hit this before with these that a PUD is really some flexibility to do a few extra things but other other than that the road going through building these types of buildings all that is we wouldn't even be talking right now would just sort of be happening if if they didn't need some of the flexibility in this otherwise it would all just be happening so there's not a lot we can actually do about it because we as a city or some people have already said this is the plan it is in the met this met Council area this Musa and they have a lot of other control in that as well but this gas station it's not zoned for that true statement correct so that one we could just say no we disagree that that we shouldn't allow a gas station because that to me would is a PR I mean yes the trucks is already a problem but a gas station right here would be that's really connected to all the residential property as a gas station that seems like a not friendly for me I don't I'm not a big fan I know I'm sure this site being on 55 and on a busy corner is is appealing but I I I'm not seeing a strong reason from our perspective as a city why why you know I have a a little comment because I just recently got my property tax thing uh I'm not I'm seeing so many this is just me venting as a resident because I I feel like we keep bringing in all of these properties and somehow was supposed to benefit me as a resident I do live on 10 acres I love the rural came from Plymouth I you know do I actually care if we have a whole bunch of businesses in Corcoran not really I really don't care at all I mean frankly unless my property taxes were like plummeting to the year to the bottom of the earth and unfortunately the city taxes just keep going up so I I'm not actually seeing any benefit I know you're on city council you're also a resident keep going none of us want to pay more money I really don't care if there's more people because that'll just need more traffic I can go to Maple Grove and Rogers to get food so no offense to the builders because I mean and if I own the property and I was trying to make some money off of this I mean I'd be welcoming you know a building but as a resident I personally totally agree with every single person that spoke but this is zoned as it is and so there's not a lot we can do about it at this point except for the gas station so that was my my vent on that so that's all I had for questions I think um yep so thank you maybe maybe a follow-up to that there's a number of concerns raised by residents regarding operations on the site so this is a five lot PUD right now the two Givens are a storage unit facility as well as Pella but that leaves three other Lots we've talked about the possibility of our convenience station on one of them can you guys talk a little bit about just operations and what your expectation is I mean what happens these things are built and then maybe what may happen on the other three lots that are in the storage facility in Pella yeah so we're expecting a lot adjacent to Pella and then the lot adjacent to the storage facility to be some type of office warehouse um office warehouses function a lot like a typical office they're made to buy just like the offices when those folks are used to going to they're not night facilities they're not doing manufacturing overnight they're not free ships they're like I know there was a comment earlier about howling being two ships I think they're probably on the call or online tonight and they could probably answer that but I don't do not believe they're a multi-ship facility I think they operate much like any other office warehouse you know seven to five type operation um we don't know what the uses are going to be on the other sites we're we're targeting you know similar facilities like hella we'd love to see another you know user-driven project on that next lot that brings jobs into the city um but it's to be determined we we are talking with uh with a convenience store gas station for that corner lot and we were actively negotiating with them so we would really like you to consider that PUD flexibility because that's a key component of the project but would we look to you for for Direction and Kindred mentioned the eaw so when the eaw was done it considered the traffic generation from those proposed facilities on each of those lots in terms of coming up with some of the mitigation measures that were identified in 98w isn't correct that's correct so if we were to do nothing else in the gas station we would be putting in a traffic light if we do everything else but the gas station we likely don't have a traffic light so the gas station is the key if it warrants the traffic signal by itself without that um it would depend on the use we'd have to kind of look at it all in a big picture the storage facility is is a non-issue that there's it's like having a couple houses back there there's just minimal traffic that was you know average amount of traffic generation but the gas is really the driver for the traffic signal we would love to put the traffic signal in and get the gas and I think that would help everybody access Highway 55 but we understand and maybe a question for Natalie and Kendra so if I mean we're considering the approval of a PUD and a plat so if the Pud were to be approved and at this time we're not approving a gas station on that site what happens in the future if they come back and want to develop a gas station on that corner site once the Pud is approved can you maybe provide that information for the audience I think the question is if you approve the Pud but said no gas no PDD flexibility for the gas station on lot one block one that would be the Pud but they could come back at a later date and ask for a PUD amendment of a different Planning Commission and Council and it would go through the same process as the public hearing Sophie approved the Pud without the stipulation that it did not allow a gas station the gas station would be allowed on that corner property correct and it would have to come back to the planning commissioner city council again to do that correct it will go back to the city council for the final plat and final PUD site plan approval but not but it would be entitled and we need to ask if it could be a gas station okay okay may I have a turn check okay um first of all I just want to thank everybody for showing up and adding their comments thank the developer for being here um it is a change when you go from looking at an a cornfield to considering something else there so I understand a lot of the concern or Panic that comes with it I do want to note that I feel like this is a good business like all of the requests for PUD seem reasonable to me in terms of what we're trying to achieve at the site considering that it is already zoned light residential so just to clarify that they're not asking for it to become light industrial it already is they're just asking for the flexibility to change some of the standards um I want to just talk about some of the landscaping and what makes sense on this property I feel like when you guys ask for the pewd flexibility to have the impervious surface be applied to the project as a whole rather than each individual lot that makes sense to me you want to concentrate your uh impervious areas to to you know if you can create the landscaping and the natural part all along that northeastern part it makes significantly much more sense than putting it along 55. um so to me I was also going to extend some additional thoughts on landscaping and things that I could consider being an actual benefit to the city that might bolster what you have to offer some of them were talking specifically about the septic area right now since there isn't the city water city sewer um and you'd be right relying on septic and the concern about trees I would be making a proposal to completely say there doesn't need to be any trees alongside that septic area instead if you were to do something that was like a natural Prairie and allow those big tall natural grasses to grow all along you don't even have to mow your septic area um things like that actually create ecological habitats for birds and insect salamanders all that sort of stuff which actually builds into the diversity of keeping our Eagles that are on 55 that we all want to stay there um and so I would rather see that than see trees just to say that we hit a tree minimum that doesn't make sense to me if we're going to take those those Landscaping requirements and apply them across this whole project it does make a lot more sense to do it all along where the residential areas are I would also say that if we could do away with no Turf grasses like if we just didn't didn't put in so turf says to me are dead zones there's no nature that naturally grows in a manicured lawn so for us as a city even if we could gain a larger percentage of areas that were allowed to grow more naturally instead of being that mode and maintained green area to me that would be uh what I would consider a benefit to the city and we could get that in exchange for some of the Pud flexibility I didn't have any specific concerns about the flexibility requested other than the gas station which I know is something you guys would like and it's interesting to learn that that would be the driver for a stoplight so thanks for having that information um it does seem like obviously placed along 55 makes sense but since it's residential to the east or you know to that Northeast section and also to the west of 55 it it in and of itself isn't in like a completely surrounded business or commercial area and so it does seem slightly out of place um so that is an area where I guess I would like to have more weigh-in from my colleagues let me just double check and make sure I haven't missed anything that I wanted to bring up I'm sorry oh and then the only other question that I had specifically for staff was um one about the number of well sites that the city just because it is listed as a benefit so I'm trying to kind of weigh here what the city is getting at I understand that we're getting this these streets which um for the gentleman who said the the cart before the horse really the way that these projects get paid for is by having the development come into the area otherwise it would be on the city's residence to provide the road um so I understand that the tension of of that benefit and yet also the cost um but at any rate uh so that was my first question is that you know is is acquiring that a benefit because we don't have them anywhere else and then I had a second question so in terms of that I did look up the com plan we have four potential well sites identified in the comp plan one in the Southwest District and the reason we say that's a benefit is if we don't get it as part of a development we have to purchase the property for the well side so it's benefit for us to acquire a well-site in an area that is a search area this is one of the search areas for search areas we have one that we have acquired a north of 30 on 116 and then this this is our would be our second this would be the second site period one yeah and then we do have another we do have a Well site in the Ravinia development okay as well okay and then the other question is alluding to the corridors given for the utilities in the future uh if we did not have a project like this giving us our granting like preserving those along Kimberly Lane how would they be taken in the future right like so if we didn't develop the property and all of a sudden Musa comes out there how would those access points be or corridors be taken in order to put put them in does that make sense so if um if we had a sewer connection and a Municipal Water Connection in the Southwest District they the connections get made through development and so we're preserving that with this if um in the other areas if it if the connection was along 19 for example it would need to come from 19 across those properties and so if the s's who are between this property and 19 for example don't develop then the sewer stops and so it only happens with development the city has not historically pushed sewer water or streets through people's properties and they get extended with development okay thank you and okay last one sorry just real quick just knowing what I know about our neighboring City as a comparison there are 10 Wells okay so it's just FYI I appreciate that we don't have we are going to need a couple hundred it's we got four and when we grow over the next 60 70 years we might need to add a couple more thank you so where I said as of right now is I don't have a problem with any of the Pud flexibility requested I'd like some more discussion on the gas station but I would like to consider adding in just um one of the requests for granting some of that flexibility is perhaps more um areas of natural habitat rather than Turf grasses thank you I understand I appreciate all that you're addressing in terms of because so much of this is conceptual so just wanted to let you know we appreciate that but Kendra did talk about how much flexibility do we want to Grant in the Landscaping in terms of the Shrubbery because it is conceptual on that um property to the West on the on the North side and so right now with the conceptual plan they can address it but if something else larger comes in there that would change some of that so I guess I'd be curious where you guys mm-hmm [Applause] any other um as far as the noise compliance goes at what point will the noise com well the noise compliance takes effect when the businesses move in I would assume because then you know how loud the businesses are are going to be or are um but it's a little too late to me to find out if they're in compliance because if it's semi trucks or something else that are causing the the noise um and the semi trucks are vital to the building then I don't know how you can I don't know how you can change that at all um it's not like you can put extra Mufflers on a semi the noise is the noise is so um I don't know if you can do a study on noise before the the project actually gets built but it just seems a little late to find out that it's too noisy um as far as the natural habitat I I totally agree with that I think that's a it's a a really good idea I as a police Reserve officer I've I've taken a squad car out many times to sit on a Pioneer Road uh Pioneer Trail and um the traffic is awful there um and I believe that a project like this would create unnecessary hardship and increased burden on the residents there and as a cop of course I I like donuts and um and I can't believe that you know there's a potential of putting in a quick trip and I'd be voting it down because uh Quick Trip Donuts rank about a 9.7 on my um I just I I just don't think that that's a good idea for um you know to move into a neighborhood and put a gas station there so um I'm not in favor of this project going forward but we do have to uh entertain motions that are shown here the four emotions I believe for the commission yes one of the options is to recommend approval and with that there are three resolutions in an ordinance um and certainly those if you were to go that right you could certainly modify any of the conditions in the draft the second option is the the fifth resolution or the fifth document is a resolution for denial that's certainly also an option okay but if you were to make a motion I'm not sure which one which though I'm in I'm in alignment with uh Wisher brummin so I mean the Pud seems good I'm not in favor of the gas station I don't know if you want to talk about that more but I'm I would want to not allow that so I don't know what which ones that's what I was just gonna say that so one of the red resolutions is the Pud resolution and so when you look at that that's probably a good place for your conversation and so there's a couple ways to do this but someone could make a motion um except for number nine on that one to recommend approval of the Pud and exactly you could under item eight Beauty flexibility is granted um for a number of things this is uh on the PDF but it's the third if we have resolution or ordinance and the oh it is number nine I'm sorry yeah number nine this is number nine to allow that so you could recommend removal of that in condition number 14 you could modify that as commissioner bruman um suggested um or make any other you know modifications that you would want to but those were the two in the Pud approval resolution that you've talked about specifically the shrub flexibility and was one of them that was eight eight in that same resolution okay so the first thing we would do is entertain a motion to recommend approval or denial first of all yeah Mr chair um you know I think someone could make a motion to recommend approval of the um ordinance approving the rezoning and the findings of facts for rezoning that's two different items but you but it's the same task so you could make someone could make that motion first and then you could come and attack the Pud and then thirdly the preliminary plot all right can I get a motion to approve the ordinance rezoning to a planned unit development and the findings of fact is that correct I can do both at the same time okay I'd make that motion a second all in favor against nay okay I would like to entertain a motion to recommend approval or denial of the draft resolution approving the preliminary PUD plan [Music] and does this include the gas station yes yes we could we would I would make a motion but I would recommend amending or changing you know the Landscaping requirement and or the gas station or tackling anything added that we wanted to put would be attached to that resolution correct yes you'll just want to clarify that your motion what exactly and so I know that this is going to perhaps villainize me but I do think that there's a place for it and I think that I will be uh adequately opposed by uh those who feel like they need to make that position hurt as well but I will go ahead and make the motion to um approve the Pud flexibility with uh with a A Change simply to the Landscaping requirement but I'd like to be Broad in the narrative and because we have a conceptual plan I guess I would just like to um not require necessarily a specific number of trees or Shrubbery or anything um but just that um when the time comes that that proposal is forward we get more information and I guess I'd request an emphasis on some of those more natural habitat areas tall grasses especially surrounding the areas that are more open and maybe one additional discussion Point relative to that so we heard a lot of feedback and comments from the folks along wake and wheel regarding concerns that you're going to have a road behind you and impacts your property and we certainly concern understand that and understand your concerns what we've also heard is there's been a lot of studies regarding how development along 55 is going to happen and the need to have this Kimberly Lane at that location was a decision that has been made long ago and this development is not doing nothing more than continuing to basically implement the plans that were set but that being said I know there's some concerns we've heard some concerns from residence long Wagon Wheel and the proximity of their properties to the road maybe that's an opportunity for some additional Landscaping Kendra you kind of mentioned it but you stopped short of saying a screening wall or screening fence in that area I'm just recognizing we don't have a lot of space in there to do a lot of landscape screening I'm wondering if maybe in addition to your comments about screening and Landscaping we also want to specifically address some additional buffers for those folks along Wagon Wheel relative to the location of Kimberly Lane yeah I think that's fair if you look at the grading plan one of the and Joe can correct me if it's I get the numbers right but in some places that road is 10 feet above the backyards of those neighbors and so that's where I hesitated about the fence because I'm not sure how much it would do but um that is certainly something it's a tight spot between Kimberly and those homes so uh you you certainly could require something like that and we still learned I mean Kimberly is going to go with the location is proposed in this development I mean that's where it needs to go as a result concerns along 55. so really all we can do is try to figure out a way to help mitigate that as a part of the development plan right and so then I guess that I hear what you're bringing up and so the question would be do you want that type of screening to appear more natural in its existence or would you like a fence or a wall and I guess for me personally I would I would lean towards the whatever it can do to look natural right so to soften that I understand that the city has its Public Safety things that mow down right along near the edge of the road so we can't get a lot of those tall grasses anyway um even though that would at least provide a little bit of screening a little bit of softening um but that's why I would say let's concentrate some additional Landscaping efforts that way and the benefit of considering the site as a whole does provide the opportunity to focus those Landscaping efforts and the locations that need it the most which is one of the benefits of the Pud so as we've talked before that's a great benefit to doing a PD where we can actually take those landscaping materials and use them to the best benefit of the site and I think there are some areas um on the west side of Kimberly that there that the screening could be effective with offense so I mean that's something that um you know um you could make that a condition you could make a condition that says they need to provide detailed screening before the council meeting and give them a couple weeks to resolve that provide some cross-section view sheds so people can see how the screening will look I think that's maybe missing in this application is we saw that last month that that really helps to be able to see those cross sections so if you made that direction known then we could work with them before the council meeting and try to get more detail there I would absolutely add that to my motion if I could add with a friendly um because I also feel like we don't necessarily need to tell the developer what is the the best um because you know materials wise so I feel like I would just I think that asking them to provide some additional information before the council meeting would be helpful so you're okay with the gas station at this point then if the gas station even though it's not allowed in the in light industrial if the gas station is what drives a stoplight at that point I feel like that's kind of the the lesser of two evos saying that I wanted is not exactly the terminology that I would use but if if without it there will be no stoplight there um if that is indeed unless it's right unless later when the new buildings are added that might elevate it depending on what those end to be right sure that was what I made the motion with also in full recognition that you guys are welcome to add recommendations to my motion that would change it but move it forward it was sort of to get the ball rolling all right I don't know if it works that way right because then you're putting your motion and somebody seconds it no because I believe that we've done this in the past and we add friendlies oh okay [Music] if you could clarify it for me that'd be good so I think the motion is to approve with a change to allow flexibility on the Landscaping but I kind of heard a couple things and that's where I'm a little confused I think I heard you say not have any minimum tree requirements but I'm not sure if you meant that or just meant that you're open to modifying the tree requirements if you could get some better native landscape that is what I meant not that we do away with the minimum tree requirement or shrub requirement on this property but that as a whole looking at the the plan I would rather see those benefit the screening um rather than um yep and so it more that I'd be open to some flexibility seeing where it was not doing away with the minimums required requirement yes and the shrubs aren't going to do a lot to address our concerns about screening and some of the concerns we've heard from the residence tonight and a lot of times they're not even native so okay we have a motion on the floor um and I'm I'm not capable to repeat it but but it would be to approve the Pud with an emphasis on more natural habitat and was there something else and that before it comes before the council they would the applicant would provide more information uh with cross-section views of that screening in the potential areas where residents are impacted on Kimberly Lane okay so um we have a motion do I hear a second I'd second that okay okay then is this where I do a friendly I don't know really understand because I'm not going to prove this unless I or you can oppose it yeah right vote for me I mean and because of the gas station uh nothing whatever it is Mr chair you I think a friendly Amendment and I might have to defer to Kendra but it'd be whether or not she would want to accept it okay um if she doesn't want to accept it then you would just vote no one understood different motion that including that and this yes okay yeah fair enough so I guess I'll have a friendly Amendment if possible to not allow the change of what light industrial would allow and just we have they have to stick to what light industrial allows which does not allow a convenience store so uh I mean ultimately this is to make sure that our opinions and varying opinions are heard understood and so even if we split um I think that that is going to so I'm not going to accept the friendly okay all right so we have a motion and a second all in favor say aye aye opposed May okay so the motion does fail with the tie then we'll need to make another rid of motion this one particularly about the gas station yes so [Applause] yeah so I'm in the gas station and then making a vote for me sure do I have a motion as such I will make the motion to that will still have these Landscaping uh discussion we just talked about and remove the uh ability to to for them to build a gas station on in light industrial all right do I hear a second on that I I okay all in favor of the latest motion say aye aye [Music] opposed okay all right so yeah that's good that'll give the council will see that then there's a challenge in all this I heard it loud and clear yeah this is Mr chair if I may real quick I want to make sure everybody knows this is a recommendation to the council and [Music] Council makes the final decisions and that would be scheduled coming to the council when well we have one more motion and then when we finish on December 22nd okay so we will just I wanted to get into yes it has happened in the past and when I was under plenty commission I would make that correction we are only in Planning Commission is only a recommending body it's not saying yes or no one it's not permanent the final decision is made by the correct so thank you for letting me speak the final motion is to recommend or approval or denial of the draft resolution approving the preliminary plot do I have a motion I'll make that motion do I have a second second all in favor say aye aye opposed name is there anything else then on concerning this project this is that is the planning commission's recommended Edition to the council the council will review it on December 22nd thank you all for your interest and for your input thanks [Music] to you that was fun we're gonna be back you're meeting at a phone booth again all right we have the public hearing on the Mac is that uh it's pronounced but he is here so you can correct me if that wasn't all right the accessory dwelling unit zoning ordinance Amendment and the staff report as was submitted by George Gamache he submitted a zoning ordinance Amendment application requesting the city to review several aspects of our established standards for accessory dwelling units adus otherwise called um so I submitted I sent out the staff report and then the applicant submitted a summer Visions where he had agreed with some of it and some of the areas where we didn't have agreement um so what I'm going to throw a lot of this it sounds like it's pretty resolved and we're on the same page so the definition here is what we now agree on both me and the staff and the applicant so this just clarifies what an edu must contain including bathroom facilities and kitchen facilities and it also clarifies the various forms an edu could take including a detached unit one that's a part of an accessory structure or one that's part of an expanded dwelling one of the questions that we are looking for a specific discussion on tonight is the use type and review process the applicant's initial proposal and the staff recommendation is to change all adus across all districts where they're allowed from an inner amuse permit permit to a conditional use permit the interim use permit has that Sunset Clause where it's a temporary in nature and the conditional use permit runs with the land as long as all conditions of approval are met uh the applicant submitted a response to the staff report where he suggested allowing adus to be approved through an administrative process that the cup reserved for more extenuating circumstances such as converting an existing building or allowing a larger sized edu particularly in the rural residential district so that is definitely an option to consider there are some cities as outlined in the staff report that have a have it allowed by right with certain standards there's administrative permit process that we could do and then there's cities that have a hybrid where some districts they have conditional use permits um or maybe in certain situations so we could discuss whether or not we think that there's certain scenarios where a less general or less intensive process is possible I do want to keep it as consistent as possible across districts because I do get a lot of phone calls of people looking to move to the city and so to try to explain it if it varies drastically between districts that can be very difficult but I if we can have something consistent I do think that that would be doable if there's standards we can agree on in terms of an administrative review [Music] I'll go back to that one uh so both staff and the applicant uh recommend completely removing a requirement that we currently have that says an edu must be located or shall be located in an existing single-family home or above an attached or detached garage that is accessory to a single family detached home we saw this with deceased application and actually with another interim use permit application for an edu a year or so back where having it be above a garage really does not make sense especially when you're talking about it as for an aging parent or a child with a handicap um or special needs so we do think that just removing this entirely would allow for Less confusion in processing our applications going forward a size limit this is where we have the most disagreement at this point with the applicant's proposal the applicant's initial proposal requested the flat 800 square foot limit fee eliminated and for the size of edus to be based on 75 of the gross floor area of the principal dwelling fine um and I took this and ran with it so um I uh did a lot of research on Accessory dwelling units and do believe that they are not meant to be a second single family home on the lot and we've identified second or single family homes being at least 1100 square feet elsewhere in our city called so in speaking with our Construction Services specialist who has a much better idea about Lumber and materials we do want a dimension that is probably divisible by eight considering Lumber and so that's where the 960 square feet came from I'm also open to a thousand but I do think it should be less than the 1100 square feet we require for a single family home so that's so currently the proposal that staff recommending is going with the 960 square feet to keep adus Limited in size but at no point should it ever exceed the gross floor area of a principal dwelling unit so if it is a smaller dwelling unit that was built before we established that minimum standard um and let's say that's 900 square feet then the Adu should not be exceeding 900 square feet either so that's where we're proposing it um when we did have I did talk about in the staff report what some other cities are doing uh there are some examples of a 75 limit but it's usually capped at about a thousand square feet or so a lot of cities have a 33 percent percentage for the principal dwelling unit so that's other things other items that we could consider our discussion if we prefer a percentage I would say that that would take away some rights from what property owners currently have because 33 of a 1500 square foot home is pretty small and right now they would be able to build up to 800 square feet per current organism um additionally in evaluating size based uh standards we decided we are recommending that it clarifying that when we're evaluating how an excess retailing unit fits within size limitations outlined in our accessory structure standards that only the footprint of the accessory dwelling unit is subject to the accessory structure size limit so trying to explain that a bit more we have this big table that talks about the footprint for accessory structures in general not adus just accessory structures and so in applying the size limit compared to what you're allowed per your lot we're talking about the footprint now but um and so if you're if your house if your lot is allowed a thousand square feet um then that would be the maximum footprint you could potentially have um of all accessory structures including the 80 but we're just talking about the footprint you could have a second level to get additional square footage to the Limit that you have on your accessory dwelling unit I hope that makes sense let me know if I need to clarify further um and then the accessory dwelling units um we don't have a size or a height restriction right now but we think that it's important to clarify that they are subject to the same height restriction for the principal structure as determined by the zoning District but should not exceed the existing height of the principal structure we don't want Adu that's taller than the actual house next slide foreign staff is open to a cap of a thousand square feet um it but we whatever Dimension we do we probably not interested Invisible by eight and then the exterior design standards uh the applicant's initial request was to remove the uh remove the requirement that the accessory dwelling unit incorporate a similar architectural style roof pitch colors and materials as the principal building on the lot staff thinks that having that standard is the best way to mitigate the potential social impact on existing neighborhoods um the revised request with this letter is requesting to remove at least the roof pitch criteria And discussing this further with other members of Staff we do think that is reasonable edu's are known for next slide adus are known for having this kind of slanted roof at times and that allows for more lighting for more window space a loft area storage area so it is reasonable and I think it can still be aesthetically pleasing as long as the materials are matching so we are open to removing the roof pitch requirement but keeping the rest of it in place um addressing and access the is it interesting issue that has been brought to staff's attention with our two current adus that have been permitted um so the proposed language right now kind of leaves it up in the air as we