This transcript features a discussion among the Lakeville City Council and staff regarding the city newsletter, local newspaper advertising, legislative priorities, and the 2025 budget. [0:03] **Ann Orlofsky**: um so that's always kind of a nice a nice thing so we're looking at um we pay for the Recycled is what it looks like right pardon me but we pay to have it printed the additional cost the EDM prep oh that's eddm prep is just what uh print solution charges to um put together all of the bulk mailing oh that's a different different cost um GDI actually kind of built that cost into our print okay um she pulls it out separately okay so that's kind of a new cost we're seeing okay um but it is a it is a lot of work um so and she brings it directly to the individual post offices [0:48] **Ann Orlofsky**: where GDI just dropped it off at St Paul um we save a little bit of money by them dropping it off um so that kind of brings down because postage went up kind of brings their cost down a little bit by doing it that way so um like she said anywhere where we can save a couple pennies here and there is kind of helpful so yeah Dakota Valley Recycling that recycling guide um we get reimbursed for so once a year we'll get that money back which is kind of nice um so um our next issues um will be February 15th um if if you're okay with going forward um if you think it's useful um [1:35] **Ann Orlofsky**: and I'm just sort of looking for your feedback what you think of the first five issues **Councilmember Joshua Lee**: great I think it's money weth because I know it's getting to the household **Councilmember Dan Wolter**: yeah no I think the same thing I try to pass it around my household uh to the various adults that are there and so U I thank everyone appreciates the information that's in it we know that it's getting two people um on like the second part of your presentation I think it's the reach is we know that all 32,000 households are getting the information which is is nice go ahead goad I was say what from a [2:21] **Mayor Luke Hellier**: policy making standpoint what I appreciate is I think sometimes people think well franchise Fe for example they're going to get a letter in the it's telling them about what's going to change while the fact that we have a newsletter we can point you and say yes you did get notified because normally we wouldn't do that for any type of policy change right so it's good that that kind of stuff is in there we can say yep you got this in March and or whatever so from that standpoint yeah **Councilmember John Bermel**: I I was just gonna Echo I think uh you can never communicate too much so I think with the amount of money we're investing this I think it's a wise investment um and I agre to that when there are issues that come up it's a great way to communicate that to every El so and a great way to say and document what we did um I think it's I [3:09] **Councilmember John Bermel**: think we just continue continue **Councilmember Michelle Volk**: yeah no I I thought the content was great um visually appealing and just one of those things you grab when you get in the mail too I appreciate the um using the local printer too because uh does look like that brought some the list jumped quite a bit there though too is that just all new new construction new houses let just up it's updated or yeah **Ann Orlofsky**: and it's a little tricky because some of the um as you know we've got the different zip codes yeah so um Rebecca and I worked really closely on the mailing um the mail routes and some of the mail routes are really goofy to be honest they go uh very deep into um Farmington um so we had to kind of [3:57] **Ann Orlofsky**: Select which ones we were going to you know how far do we want to go in to the Farmington residents to share with Lal news so you got to kind of make some cuts and some choices so there's probably a little difference in that um and we get 125 that we keep here and then I distribute those to all of our buildings um we put quite a few over at the Art Center because we have so many performances and so many classes over there and those pretty those go pretty fast too so too yeah **Councilmember Michelle Volk**: so are you getting do you um have them addressed to each individual apartment then too **Ann Orlofsky**: yeah so each of the apartment holders in a complex are getting it yeah [4:46] **Councilmember Michelle Volk**: okay yeah good I'm glad we're using local printer too that's good **Councilmember John Bermel**: yeah yeah it's nice to be have somebody room cles so and I was really impressed with the quality too so **Ann Orlofsky**: yeah I didn't think we were going to get a lot of feedback from QR code be a word of M yeah good okay good see I can get to **Councilmember Michelle Volk**: you have one more question on it are you finding it difficult for it to be timely timely meaning when you only doing it once the order the information that goes in there are you finding it difficult to [5:32] **Councilmember Michelle Volk**: make for The Gap that takes place **Ann Orlofsky**: no but as far as information I will tell you we we do work it really carefully like we really think through like do this does this make sense um is this something we can put on next door um so we have a lot of discussions I'm trying to um make sure that I hit every Department too and um at the beginning it was hard to get everybody involved they just weren't used to that right um and then it's does this make sense is it going to happen within these three months um because everybody's real anxious to put everything in that first month and we [6:18] **Ann Orlofsky**: want to make sure that it spreads through those other two right and so that's kind of a TR okay so thank you **Mayor Luke Hellier**: y I was gonna ask this as part of the this next piece but um what is our access to email addresses to provide this to folks via email they wanted a digital verion I'm assuming we're not doing that right now **Ann Orlofsky**: no um we do um post this on our website as well um so if people wanted to sign up to get this electronically they could they could opt in to a a constant contact email list I could get this electronically just like any agenda y **Mayor Luke Hellier**: have we [7:06] **Mayor Luke Hellier**: considered buying ad from from the liquor store I just looking back to see it we yeah to help buy on the cost is that conversation lior committe had hav **Councilmember Michelle Volk**: I say put that on your gym and see if it's worthwhile just you're can def free a little bit of the cost from I don't want to get into the business of selling ads to but if we can buy ad from our **Mayor Luke Hellier**: any other questions or comments about the newsletter okay **Ann Orlofsky**: right uh the next subject um some this week uh so I've got um uh we bought 29 uh this year um before we [7:54] **Ann Orlofsky**: knew what was going to happen um and then I got a visit from from um Mike Elbert our sales rep um just a couple weeks before they went to the new model um and he just popped in the lobby and let me know that they were going to go to the paid subscription um so I went back actually and looked up where we were at um 2016 was the year I started so I have the numbers from when it was slid in the the Wood Park under mailboxes was 16,000 U about 165 um and then um then they went to the free subscription [8:39] **Ann Orlofsky**: model so to do that they had to get mailing addresses um put it inside the mailbox it went to 5800 um they worked up to 6,800 um and now um their first issue was August 16th um they are actually uh I've been told it was 2200 um I just got the bids for um legal ads and it's actually 2165 um so I guess they were around a lot up um so yeah it's actually 2165 so apologize for the [9:25] **Ann Orlofsky**: error um he contact U there's been no change um in the uh pricing he contacted me about a week ago with a new offer the new offer is 26 full page ads on page two which I guess is I didn't know what what he meant by 2159 um he considers that they consider that a premium page we are getting that for um for right now it's uh um $1,110 they want to give it to us for $100 less um and then give us 10 targeted email deployments at $600 each [10:15] **Ann Orlofsky**: um I wasn't sure I still am not totally clear how these targeted emails will work this is not something um I'm not terribly interested in to be honest with you um because I'm very concerned about these 24,000 email addresses that they have um there's no demographic data on these 24,000 addresses so I don't know how old these people are apparently they're all within the Sip code um he said they're they're can spam compliant which is a you know part of the federal government um you have to have a way to opt out um I think people get quite irritated by these emails I'm very concerned about it [11:02] **Ann Orlofsky**: one thing I can say is that the um chamber the visitors bureau Gan is going to uh pilot one of them um I think within the next few weeks um they are going to report back to me to say how it went because there's supposed to be a reporting mechanism um to say how did it go so she is going to try one of these email um offers and they're not um they're not I don't know how to put that um very positive about it either but they're willing to try one let's put it that way **Councilmember Michelle Volk**: how can they say they have 24,000 emails we the peak of their delivery they only had [11:48] **Councilmember Michelle Volk**: 16,000 newspapers going on **Ann Orlofsky**: they have purchased these oh okay through a marketing agency **Councilmember Michelle Volk**: and that's why I should have demographic data um I don't and so what happens is then just because we spend money with them they're the only ones that know the open rate they're the ones that are going to have all the data that goes behind those 24 which are going to be duplicated for two people on the household Etc and really if I if I were them I'd be looking at the angle of then we get to save and if you want to subscription so they're going to sell off the back of us if that makes sense [12:35] **Ann Orlofsky**: right and that's that's kind of my issue is I don't have information they said they will Pro provide a full report I don't know what that report looks like I don't know what kind of information we'll actually get back it could be just there's that open rate um we have the ability to the other thing I'm I'm not sure of is he said they'll take information from our from our ad or can we make our own email he wasn't sure that didn't give me a whole lot of confidence either um and I keep asking lots of questions and he just um says you just ask a lot of data [13:24] **Ann Orlofsky**: questions but I'm in marketing and I want so it's kind of important to me so I thought they want us to say I'm just not going to say I'm sorry yeah **Mayor Luke Hellier**: up to your point Michelle I'm torn because I think it's important that we help support local news but I don't know how anybody can justify charging more significantly less people seeing it and especially not knowing I mean I I mean not even the email paper itself yeah that 2200 number6 I had a similar situation I [14:10] **Mayor Luke Hellier**: bought ads before they changed their mind their their model thought I was you know having 6,800 subscribers and getting 2,200 so I think that was little disingenuous and looks like they just that's kind of the business model the stage **Councilmember Michelle Volk**: I realized that you know we put them in a world of hurt um by not having our Revenue because I'm sure we're probably one of the top G generators for them and however they're a business and they can pivot and they can figure out if their model isn't working um come back to us later when they get their subscribers back up or [14:57] **Councilmember Michelle Volk**: they decide to sell their paper and somebody else decides to take over I guess I'm just not interested in in salvaging a company that has not really put out much news and that's why they didn't get their subscribers because people didn't feel it was worth the money in this time I realize it's tough on all these newspapers and it's and they're all having to Pivot and figure out a way to you know get their monies but I mean I don't even know eventually when we talk about who's going to be our official newspaper if it's even worth it I mean [15:44] **Councilmember Michelle Volk**: who's seeing what's in there for our um our notices Etc so anyway I I me personally guys I'm sorry but I looked at this and I thought oh my gosh they are going to try to figure out a way to save themselves through us and it's going to cost us a mint and we're mailing to people spending that kind of money and yet we know everybody's getting it **Councilmember John Bermel**: yeah I mean I would be I think we should still have an ad I just I I'm more comfortable with your idea of a year just 12 issues once a month and you know see that **Councilmember Joshua Lee**: and I'd be curious to know though if they have some sort of um [16:29] **Councilmember Joshua Lee**: plan or or proposal that would include web ads and I'd be curious to know what their web traffic is that we could push you know people to City website through theirs if there's any value in that **Ann Orlofsky**: through great and I have been asking about that um doesn't seem like they have a plan for that yet so I can keep pursuing that um I asked to if they were going to have a model for subscription for just the web so that we could kind of pursue ads that way and at that time he said they were going to bundle it together and not have separate which not sure **Councilmember Joshua Lee**: but if you don't have a subscription you can't access their web [17:17] **Mayor Luke Hellier**: no I've been able to great I've been able to get everything on **Councilmember Joshua Lee**: you have okay I thought that they had a message that came up that they wanted to **Mayor Luke Hellier**: they did either I'm found a loophole or start it's so you just went ahead and pushed forward **Councilmember Joshua Lee**: would would it have stopped anybody else when they saw the message come up do you know I me I assume it was always it was gonna be like a two articles a month kind of deal and then I just kept going **Ann Orlofsky**: yeah I don't think you can read the um pdf version of the paper but you can read [18:04] **Ann Orlofsky**: articles I think **Councilmember Dan Wolter**: anybody else think that going down to 12 is okay or they want to I I think phasing out is so just do **Mayor Luke Hellier**: but when you do the math we're not paying any more per household um it's a 45 cents per household based on their subscription list and so it's similar to our own newsletter um what you divide you have 2200 people and a th000 it's costing $1,100 a week yeah **Councilmember Joshua Lee**: or or [18:54] **Councilmember Joshua Lee**: $2,200 a month so that's 100 dollars per a prescription right or that no 1100 divided by 2200 just 50 cents household right you're doing it every other week **Councilmember Dan Wolter**: I'm just talking about the oh and you said the our the full page of the inside that's not available anywhere online right did we discuss that I oh yeah it wouldn't be so it's it's only if you can pull up the PDF of the I was just kind of looking trying to see if and you can't pull up the PDF of the paper if you unless you have a [19:41] **Councilmember Dan Wolter**: subscription **Councilmember Joshua Lee**: are you subscri okay **Councilmember Dan Wolter**: I think overall though I think our biggest bank for our buck is our own newsletter I'd like us I I think there are some other strategies too that I'd love to see us try to employ to get more people on the uh op in for getting it digitally I don't know if there's a way for us to send out kind of a generic pin to anyone who currently Ops into any agenda or newsletter to say look at your other opin options um so you can get some cross promotion there um but I based on this I don't see us staying with the [20:27] **Councilmember Dan Wolter**: paper um long term **Councilmember John Bermel**: I kind of agree with the mayor that the ramping it down to once a mon framing it as kind of an exit St I mean because to me the importance of having Community journalism that's what we call it is important I mean you talk to people and was it shock and all those lost all of theirs I don't know if that product was was better but um it's a huge void I think um again it's not the taxpayer's job to prop it up but I do think um more of a ramp down strategy would beiser **Councilmember Joshua Lee**: I'm uh I mean I'm good with the one time a month I [21:12] **Councilmember Joshua Lee**: I I just have a special spot for Community newspapers and I realize that these things are it's harder and harder to keep that business going um but I think so I look here and I go okay if you do the two times a month that we're doing now that's $228,000 on top of the 13,000 we're spending um on our newsletter go to once a month that's 13,000 so we're paying about equal we aren't getting the same exposure um but I think to try that and um you know I would love to find a way to get some exposure with **Mayor Luke Hellier**: right now the school district I think does the same as us do there [21:59] **Mayor Luke Hellier**: they have they quit they quit complet **Ann Orlofsky**: yeah the chamber is going to continue they're going to do once a month and they'll take the first week [Music] okay all right so I think sounds like for 25 once a month there's some other options out there too [22:25] **Ann Orlofsky**: okay I mean you do it for other things businesses do it all the time I mean there's plenty of companies out there offering email **Councilmember Michelle Volk**: we can also we'll just make a we can make a considered effort to publicize the email dist a little bit more we can talk to fin yeah **Councilmember Joshua Lee**: what are we allow to do bills **Ann Orlofsky**: I don't think I don't think if I don't think we can just use the email if they signed up for utility bills online I don't think we necessarily just use that but we'll we'll talk about other ways too okay thank you appreciate [23:12] **Ann Orlofsky**: it uh okay moving on to legislative priorities Allan **Allyn Kuennen**: yep um I think most of you are familiar with the process that we put together priorities each year it's broken into two list primary priorities which is focus on the most important issu that the city council to have a review and the second one is the additional legislative priorities which is um the list that we put together just in case one of those issues come up it's important those are to track throughout the year if it comes up at at the legislative session so um and then I can go through this mayor if you want to if you guys just want to start discussing it um but we did make [23:59] **Allyn Kuennen**: some changes this year we took out some older legislative priorities some that had been addressed and then in addition the memo covers uh several additional legislative priorities that we wanted Council to consider if they wanted to add them to the overall uh document so that I'll turn over to you or I can go into more detail uh I what you guys is there anything you want a presentation is just something you want to focus on **Mayor Luke Hellier**: I feel pretty good I mean there's a couple of things that I didn't see here that I wanted to talk about that's the social District unless I missed it **Allyn Kuennen**: it isor okay um I have three comments specific yeah go ahead **Mayor Luke Hellier**: um one was for uh item C elections could we include quantify so that's reference is this priority **Allyn Kuennen**: all you're talking to me additional information okay yes okay **Mayor Luke Hellier**: so um did you have Mor **Allyn Kuennen**: no you mean include that in there say the city SP now **Mayor Luke Hellier**: yeah so um the Regional Council of Mayors we did have Steve Simon come three months ago I think to talk to us about this election stuff and get [25:39] **Mayor Luke Hellier**: feedback and one of the things that I said in mother marriage were that we would like to work with him and ultimately as a legislative do we really need 46 it's like a pretty hefty expense and um I'd be interested in adding something here about having a conversation about the amount of days of early voting versus is a lot so we have to sta what 92 days of early voting in election here how long has it been for 46 days has it been that for a long time no recent within yeah since 2020 Maybe the2 started I think it's it might be the longest or tied for the longest in the country [26:28] **Mayor Luke Hellier**: I mean I so my point being is I think there's mayors that are going to talk to legislators about this year about at least maybe for the the August primary to close that window and maybe leave the J open oh yeah **Councilmember Michelle Volk**: so if you're G to put the pricing in you should probably yeah you know the primary price how much and then and maybe with some facts of when they vote how many people actually you know **Mayor Luke Hellier**: yeah I think Ann told us estimate here like 50% of the early votes haveen 10 days before yeah I mean just some little facts like that to be able to justify shortening i' [27:17] **Mayor Luke Hellier**: like um separate from that um The Dan Patrick year rail item I think has been untouched for the last several iterations of this um but recently I was thinking that allowing the study of could allow us to look at alternative ways to use that line as opposed to because we've we've talked about wanting to use that as a trail or you know put opening that specific element of it so that we're not you know discounting any ways of using that line **Allyn Kuennen**: so I think uh they did lift the moratorium last session so I'd rather not make any [28:04] **Allyn Kuennen**: changes and then see what happens it was a Hansen Bill LIF the moratorium and so I don't want to be encouraging **Mayor Luke Hellier**: I'll let them let's see what they do first before we **Councilmember Dan Wolter**: just seems to I don't think our legislators would support you on that **Mayor Luke Hellier**: yeah that's also well I'm sure not but I if it leads to other uses and I'm in favor of [28:44] **Mayor Luke Hellier**: looking **Allyn Kuennen**: I would say that the conversations we've had with like Progressive for instance in CP um they have buyers remorse in doing anything that gives up their rail for anything that's not ra specific and that having a conversation about Trails is they were pretty I mean they basically said we screwed up in turning over our tracks for a trail so they hav as a company they have a moreor **Mayor Luke Hellier**: well the last thing that I just wanted to know is we have Broadband High speeed internet here and just seems like uh we've closed the Gap in that area is [29:33] **Mayor Luke Hellier**: that even a needed item I don't know if we have a number of how many homes are even left **Allyn Kuennen**: yeah I don't know about homes I know I came up with the finance committee last week that there is an interest espe the business partk to continue to expand it so there's an opinion that maybe some businesses need some more access so so **Mayor Luke Hellier**: is that a Broadband or Fiber **Allyn Kuennen**: I think they just L high speed Ian **Mayor Luke Hellier**: I'd imagine it be fiber broadb to me seems outdated I think 25 megabits a second versus thousand that we're at right now so I don't know [30:18] **Mayor Luke Hellier**: if they still call it the Border board Broadband Grant or is it something else **Allyn Kuennen**: check I we might change it to not be so specific **Mayor Luke Hellier**: yeah because I mean if we had in the future if we had rural areas that I would have just tried to work than now star instead of putting in the **Councilmember Joshua Lee**: we could those are my three points got two um this might be a broader discussion the post office item to me um obviously it's very important I completely agree with that the um one of [31:06] **Councilmember Joshua Lee**: the things I don't think we talk about is and I know terney kind of mentioned the ZIP code issue I don't know if this is just a quagmire with the post office about getting the entire city on one ZIP code or at least for cities you know their mailing address says Lakeville um so I don't know if there's some something the post office does those kinds of studies or anything I I know our priority of getting a new Post Office Mail Service that comes two or three times a week is actually a top higher priority but I just throw that out because it seems like tell you going through a campaign you do run into some people that don't really their lives they live in Lakeville **Mayor Luke Hellier**: so I recently went to a session on this my you read Cod yeah just take a resolution [31:53] **Mayor Luke Hellier**: Nationwide work group on this you're not alone on this a nationwide work group a bunch of cities that have the same issues where it's really profound is in some cities especially like California where your fire insurance is based on your zip code and if you have no fire risk that you're in that zip code because part of zip is it's really so there is a process um about getting it changed at the end of the day you have to do to active Congress they all get turned down there process you submit and they get turned down and they have to literally get some cities have done it I think the bigger issue for us is going to be I'm sure we can get a bill introduced [32:41] **Mayor Luke Hellier**: um I'm sure and here the Senators do that I think the bigger issue is what that means for the delivery because can say it gets all changed to 5504 that means it's all going com out of this and I don't know if they have capacity to handle that as a currently situation because the post office C code is is the post office that's servicing that area **Councilmember Joshua Lee**: that's what I understand yeah that's the way I understood it is that you know Rosemont serving servicing the Rosemont one and Farmington would service the Farmington one so is that based on Z because I I look at a city like Burnsville has a couple different zip codes but they're all Burnsville addresses Egan has three different zip codes they're all [33:28] **Councilmember Joshua Lee**: addresses to me that if we could just get one or the other one ZIP code or get the farington addresses that are in the city of Lakeville to just say Lakeville Minnesota 5504 **Mayor Luke Hellier**: we can add we can add some okay **Councilmember Michelle Volk**: so I I honestly don't know what happened a gillion years ago when my parents when we lived in Valley Park but supposedly the citizens had to vote on splitting the post office so I don't know if that still comes into play and they voted no they did not want to change their driver's licenses their credit card statements you know while we [34:15] **Councilmember Michelle Volk**: make you know we want to make it sound simple you know so it's all us it becomes a hassle for the resident to make that switch on you know for the new legal address **Councilmember Joshua Lee**: I don't even think the post office looks at anything but this I don't think they care what the city say **Councilmember Michelle Volk**: well the only other thing that they do it was requested by Burnsville when I was taking bulk mail over to Burnsville and they said if you could please so there's a coding that goes on the prepaid Postage and it was saying that it was coming out of arip Lake though and they said if you could please change that setting so that it says [35:02] **Councilmember Michelle Volk**: Burnsville because they get they must get some sort of I don't know if it's a kickback I don't know what the right term is but they wanted us to switch all our bulk mailing to make sure it said the zip code of Burnsville if we were going to bring them over there so there's all kinds of things that take place internally with the post office that I don't think we're aware of and then just the other um I don't know if our citizens have to vote on having that switched I don't know that it's just up to us to have a bill go through **Allyn Kuennen**: we could add some language to this just to say right including seeking Clarity on consolidating the code or that's postal [35:49] **Allyn Kuennen**: for this type of document we don't really know we want just aspiration and I'd love for and I'm not trying to say that I wouldn't love for it to all be play love that Rose mon zip don't you **Councilmember Michelle Volk**: yeah I grew up with it told you Anderson promote office visits once and we went to um one of the mobile home parks and our resident came up and said to Doug I've always wanted to meet the the mayor of farming [36:28] **Councilmember Dan Wolter**: my second one and I just want to go on the record uh on on this issue and acknowledge that my day job I work in the grocery store industry I have concerns about that item B specifically um on the full strength beard grocery convenience stores I I I see the need in this document to have some language talking about protecting the city's Monopoly that that sort of thing General language I think specifically calling out this this policy proposal is problematic for that industry um and you know we our gr our Grocers are good corporate citizens go talk to city like Farmington that doesn't have one and you'll you'll see the value of them so I just I raised that I know there was a little bit of discussion about it last time but I just to me that [37:14] **Councilmember Dan Wolter**: is um a little a little strong and a little specific but I know I'm probably the minority **Mayor Luke Hellier**: no I always this is the one thing in this de the was Dr nut so can we reframe I don't mind competing I guess but anyway can we reframe instead of um it being about opposition to expansion but protection of our operations because we just have it's just the one paragraph right yeah so maybe something legal closing legislation that would **Allyn Kuennen**: I could come up with [38:00] **Allyn Kuennen**: something you know protecting our operations from it's the same thing that may you wouldn't let them expand that's the only way to **Councilmember Dan Wolter**: well I I I that's I would concede that that I just specifically there's a there's every year there's 20 different proposals about that impact Municipal liquor in some way and we're just calling out the one which I know is the one most likely to happen in the next few years but so I I just I think something about protecting our right to you know sell the products that we have in the exclusivity or something like that I just **Allyn Kuennen**: so then it would be a local control issue you know so you know you would oppose any legislations [38:48] **Allyn Kuennen**: that would take away our local control the sale of wine and beer **Councilmember Dan Wolter**: well I see that trade associations will probably not like that because the build that would allow beer and wine and grocery stores would allow cities to maintain their exclusivity **Mayor Luke Hellier**: that's not necessarily just our issue though it's stores in Burnsville start selling beer too that's going to impact like both sides is I just don't feel it as [39:23] **Mayor Luke Hellier**: much **Councilmember Dan Wolter**: yeah I'm less concerned about if you could buy [Music] at Speedway Burnsville ORS I mean you can Target in Burnsville just yeah walk in a different door Ian so it's like at what point do [39:49] **Councilmember Dan Wolter**: you **Councilmember Joshua Lee**: so we're keeping it in I mean I I don't know the last time we had a full discussion on this I it does impact us don't have it in there I mean I'm not gonna not gonna lie um but it just makes us have to be as competitive as we can be Plus customer service Etc we do really well at it and people like that you know what I mean they you know um you shop where you're where you're also more [40:35] **Councilmember Joshua Lee**: comfortable with the environment and the people that are serving right **Councilmember Dan Wolter**: well I remember when we had this conversation about this specific language last time it was asked of us because of the trade Association but we're no longer members of that trade Association so do we have to even comment about it all in either direction **Allyn Kuennen**: you're never going to get staff to be take this out yeah I get it significant impct on operations it would have a significant impact on our operations if we were to not if we took this out but if we if the legislation were to change yeah we'd compete but you can't argue that it wouldn't n us **Councilmember Dan Wolter**: no I I yeah [41:23] **Councilmember Dan Wolter**: but I just I don't I think it's going to happen or not have whether we have an or not **Mayor Luke Hellier**: well I think there's there's a difference in so if all of a sudden Cub Foods can have a section of shelves with beer on it they're going to be limited in what they offer um it's much different that all of a sudden compan goes start a liquor BR calling grocery we're going to have a whole you know 4,000 square feet of our store is going to be **Councilmember Michelle Volk**: s how you put in a statement talks about how much money we save the taxpayers by [42:09] **Councilmember Michelle Volk**: the revenue from the stores so that the legislature can come up with maybe a plan I mean I don't know what it would be maybe that means that anybody in our city we could use a franchise fee against them to sell their liquor in our city if if the law passes but you know but give them something else to um you would need 20 Amazon to replace **Mayor Luke Hellier**: well and that's the city Rue get and but that also kind of calls for broadening this out a little bit too any changes that happened to that to the system the state needs to be mindful of those communities that do Municipal [42:54] **Mayor Luke Hellier**: liquor right but from a revenue perspective too I mean we don't have anything that says if you're going to make any changes to the to Municipal liquor abilities they're going to backfill you know revenue or something like that you know talked about those options in the past but I'm just less concerned about what happens outside of our boundaries because we had toll wi weather so I'm I wouldn't say I would want wine and beer in Lille cup or whatever so I think if we focus on allowing Municipal cities to continue to have operation exclusively **Councilmember Michelle Volk**: well I I I think that we have to give them something more to care about than just [43:41] **Councilmember Michelle Volk**: saying we impose something tell them why we you know what it means to us yeah you know type of thing so a statement in there about um what we even if it's even the last 10 years I mean I don't know how long this has been an issue with the legislature but you know even if it's a talking about the long term of How It's help the city Etc so that if they if they decide to do this they'll do whatever they want maybe they can come up with some solutions to the revenue that gets lost from cities **Mayor Luke Hellier**: yeah I mean what I share is that you you could build fton and Rosemonts data centers and still not match [44:27] **Mayor Luke Hellier**: City get from our and there's a strong case for that you're you know don't get any local government Aid **Councilmember Michelle Volk**: yeah were the ones that used do it right **Allyn Kuennen**: we can add some language there about what the benefit funds do and how bud I'll just to add we are the largest in the state and our policy does get noticed a lot of **Mayor Luke Hellier**: how long was this in here before Sunday L sales **Allyn Kuennen**: it was in there every year I was here before that happened but but no I take back by the time that passed we went neutral neutral position on that [45:13] **Allyn Kuennen**: because I I would think one of the arguments that people we put in grocery stores you can get it when company shows up on Sunday but that's not point I mean I don't want to start like gr legislation but if if they were if you got to the point where they said we'll replace your Revenue with you know LGA with an accelerator every year I mean that would be an actual conversation to have **Councilmember Michelle Volk**: that why I'm just saying I mean well that's why I think that the statement about the money and how much it's helped us over the years is important for them to realize **Allyn Kuennen**: Yeahs we went supporting legislation unless there's some way to replicate [45:59] **Allyn Kuennen**: revenue or something **Councilmember Dan Wolter**: well I my original Point too I mean I'm not opposed to saying we oppose changes to our product availability I I'm opposed to calling out specific Grocery and community store I mean I know that's the most relevant proposal right now but I think you're we're taking a whack at some of our corporate **Mayor Luke Hellier**: oh so just pulling out grocery and convenience stores and leaving the rest there that as I I think also Michelle's comment about about the you know the revenue and preserving our ability to you know maintain our I maybe this is a larger discussion sorry I I don't mean to picking up the issues here that are probably Beyond legislative proposals **Councilmember Joshua Lee**: who else is going to do it if it's not the grocery there's nobody's G to be able to [46:46] **Councilmember Joshua Lee**: open liquor store here I mean those are the only places that that would be allowed to any and I it's kind of back to my previous point that yeah liquor storage look different but like a beer cave in the grocery store I mean nobody else can come and build a liquor provider here um **Mayor Luke Hellier**: you open the door to them though probably to a legal challenge if it's if this were to pass and it was in the grocery and convenience stores we lose the ability to say no in you know so that a total line could open up in Lakeville because um they'd have a [47:35] **Mayor Luke Hellier**: way to I don't know sues the right word but to be able to say you know at this point um you don't have a legal standing any longer for us to **Councilmember Joshua Lee**: and that's not what I'm saying what I said is I don't know why you would take convenience and grocery stores out of there because there's nobody else that can do this anyway and that's what the legislation is I mean if we're going to if we're going to if we're going to want to have a strict conversation about legislation I think we need to mention the legislation that we want right to uh and I understand your point Dan but I don't know if you take that out it makes no sense because everybody knows it's [48:20] **Councilmember Joshua Lee**: convenience stor I mean that's why you word it to protect I mean make it more that we're we support protecting our you know the current system it needs to be much more General and positive **Councilmember Dan Wolter**: but I don't we can this support I just why we would take that part out because it's been in here for several years at this point and previous councils have talked about why this is important to our operation so I don't think based on this conversation make change quite yet but can't we add the wording on the revenue **Allyn Kuennen**: I that's expanding rationale I that's changing the oh okay policy [49:06] **Allyn Kuennen**: position it sounds like we want to talk about this more **Mayor Luke Hellier**: do you guys this isn't helpful for legislative session but I think we probably should add this to our retre should we add it to our Retreat agenda or just wait or do it sometime time after the session's over and talk I mean I don't **Allyn Kuennen**: well we added on the list of topics to to discuss next year okay all right at some point through okay oh okay I yeah I guess it doesn't have to be retrieved yeah okay I think it needs more conversation than just okay other changes [49:59] **Allyn Kuennen**: so um couple questions first of all you'll see that the county 50 interestate 35 is highlighted yellow that's just that still just needs to be updated with some update numbers um the items that Allan identified in the memo are you okay with just adding all of those into the additional priorities are there any of those that you want to primary um **Councilmember Michelle Volk**: actually I kind of thought the cyber security was more but that's just me um I think that's because I I would hope that something seriously in [50:45] **Councilmember Michelle Volk**: tack considering my Outlook was down all day today **Allyn Kuennen**: yeah there twoo so is ours um I'm I think everything that is on there I think should be added I don't know if you don't know if that should go into a priority not all of them go into a priority I'm just saying [51:14] **Allyn Kuennen**: um what's kind of the message from LMC are they making that a top priority I would recommend you all additional that's really keep focus on those primary on I think the only thing I would just say because I just got texted that ver kazic will have the G for the transportation committee so there's any other Transportation stuff we want to put in here just on that we are going to be at December 9th work session update on 3050 35 and 50 um we will have to make some decisions that night get close on Su so just transportation **Mayor Luke Hellier**: yeah I guess do we have anything in here about the greenhouse [52:01] **Mayor Luke Hellier**: gas Transportation how it should be a state instead of pro Pacific because I think there was some conversation MC at one point about that where you know every year the year's project should meet goals but we shouldn't Force One City **Allyn Kuennen**: find some space for that yeah because that that's just that's a repeal or a change from legislation last Transportation specific **Mayor Luke Hellier**: yeah and that's why we're rushing 3550 to avoid we have to submit some plans by February 1 right **Councilmember Michelle Volk**: but what even so I'm on the whatever um this Le City's representative on this transportation thing and that has feedback that has [52:48] **Councilmember Michelle Volk**: come from out that and then so we'll add those um do you want I think the session starts January 15th if I remember right do you want to invite our legislators to session in January after the session starts but not by that much yeah that's okay invite County Commissioners as well the council Federal delegations sometimes they your yeah once you think that the January meeting was good I don't think too busy and then we can put this we probably can't turn this around for next week's meeting but we'll put put it on the second meeting in December for [53:34] **Councilmember Michelle Volk**: approval [53:43] **Mayor Luke Hellier**: okay okay we'll move on to 2024 year review and final budget tax levy discussion you want to do that first you want to do third third quarter first let's do the yearend year end okay that's the lengthier discussion **Julie Stahl**: okay so no I'm good with that um so I'll just hit some high points that I outlined in the report um fund balance ratio to next year's expenditures were looking um better than we had budgeted for 2024 um when we adopted the budget we thought we come in at 48.6 we should come in at 51.6 and that's even with building permit revenues a bit lower than what we' hoped we're still we're still holding up hope for that they may come in just at the budgeted amount but it's [54:30] **Julie Stahl**: pretty tight where we're at to dat with those um looking at so we had adopted the budget figuring that we would have a net um change in the fund balance of a negative 1.5 million we should come in at roughly 625,000 negative which is a lot a lot better so $900,000 to the good um the big changes for for what staff is recommending for the 2025 budget um of course with the revenue change in the safer Grant that's a big piece of it there the only changes we're recommending are um in that intergovernmental category so we got a second police cadet Grant $50,000 but that has a direct office offset and [55:17] **Julie Stahl**: expenditures of 50,000 so it's a net of zero um the police state aid um will be roughly $150,000 more more that one we get to keep the fire Aid is about $887,000 more but that one is again a direct there's an expenditure that goes right back to the relief so far at 100% so that one has a net effect of zero uh with the safer Grant coming in this first year we should see um in 2025 1.5 million in revenues um what staff is recommending is that initially we had budgeted P for six of those 15 firefighters that's what we included in our ly and the proposed um staff is recommending and we [56:04] **Julie Stahl**: and R with scenarios by the finance committee that we don't change the levy we hold on to that $600,000 that we had originally levied and build it into our fund balance and do the same thing for the next two years because when that clip comes in 2020 and the save Grant is gone we'll have roughly 1.8 million that we won't have a huge jump in our we **Councilmember Dan Wolter**: that was my big question but that's and because there are some hard some gear and Equipment cost that the city's going to be on the hook for is roughly $140,000 granted I mean that's a big chunk in this first year for all 15 firefighters or which ones maybe aren't already geared up but um then you know it'll be another five [56:50] **Julie Stahl**: years before we have to Reit them you know so there's going to be some es and flows for the gear the firefighter but this first year we will have to take that hit because the saf for Grant only covers s yeah SE benefits **Councilmember Dan Wolter**: if if we hold on to that and it's not being used on firefighters how is that accounted for so it doesn't look like we're overfunding our fund ratio because it looks like at least it'll be% that **Julie Stahl**: yeah we our fund balance ratio we have to back out or not count the designated fund balances and that our fund balance ratio takes doesn't include those **Councilmember Dan Wolter**: it become a [57:36] **Councilmember Dan Wolter**: designated fund **Julie Stahl**: yes so we won't get overly it won't look overly fat but it be definitely set aside and very clear when we're talking with Moody um we're purposefully building toward that 2028 year when the city will be on the hook for the whole cost of those firefighters **Councilmember Dan Wolter**: does does that work similarly for like unfilled positions let's say somebody leaves their position in October and takes three months to hire so you have three months of money at the end of the year um that you didn't use on that position but is available does that same thing **Mayor Luke Hellier**: that we get the funding for 15 firefighters is it is it the firefighters **Councilmember Dan Wolter**: no no I'm asking just in [58:22] **Councilmember Dan Wolter**: general I get the firefighter thing I agree with it 100% I think that's great fund it but is the same thing happening with with other positions **Julie Stahl**: um not necessarily I mean it what happens is if we have Transitions and there's savings realized you know if we didn't pay out their PTO balance which was huge when the director or whoever retired if there's if there's savings that we realize generally it just floats to the general fund balance we don't typically designate that for anything you know it just helps save costs going into the next year for what we need to Levy **Mayor Luke Hellier**: all right um so uh estimating with fund balance for 2025 we should come in um [59:07] **Mayor Luke Hellier**: fund balance of the current year expenditures at the end of 2025 at roughly 50% again that's not counting the 600,000 that we would set aside or designate for the fire positions um so when we're looking at our total Levy you know we've got the increase to the park referendum that added a million dollars on for our lby this year um there were some other smaller increases with the park Improvement fund the technology fund and all that but when we look at our overall tax capacity rate we went up roughly 2.4% so with the growth of the tax base our tax rate um only went up 2.4% even though the levy was 12% increase we're still the lowest in Dakota counties and [59:54] **Mayor Luke Hellier**: that's why I included that tax capacity rate we're still 3% lower than the next city out just so um and I will I'll I'll have that slide in the truth and Taxation meeting on Monday night um because I think it tells a good story like go is still a really good choice for people to live and work um the impact on the meum home value is so the meting home values changed slightly the value that the county gave us back in um SE August um they changed a bit so our median home value actually changed it was 41,000 now it's down to 450,00 um but that's still what it means [1:00:40] **Julie Stahl**: for a property tax increase for their City portion is $110 a year so under $10 a month um and Commercial properties they're going to see and if they were seeing a 10% increase in their valuations for those million dollar valuations with a 10% increase they will have an annual increase of $143 **Councilmember Dan Wolter**: do you know how much that is now like caught up to where we were preo giv saw such a stark drop is it back to similar valuation levels **Julie Stahl**: or it's hard to tell individually because we only see the agregate numbers like here's all your commercial property um I can send you what I have for the historical of here's what our of different commercial [1:01:27] **Julie Stahl**: you know commercial residential Apartments all that we track that every year but but but it could have and flow for different areas too um and I do apologize for the graph that has the preliminary 93 numbers and the proposed 1125 at the very bottom that J commercial property those are last year's values the $840 and the 762 they're both roughly $1,144 this time um so that was the impact on the median home value and the commercial side um as we are looking at going building out for what our Lev is going to look going forward we still have some big increases [1:02:14] **Julie Stahl**: you know and we'll keep evaluating that but the biggest ones equipment fund um is going to go up 1.8 million in 2026 um we have not had to Levy for the equipment because we had those was um that state aid not state aid it was a fire safety Aid Public Safety Aid we were able to put some of that into the equipment fund that helped float us for two years here so um and as far as long-term projections we're still looking at even when building in the model that took into into account all of the projects and all the equipment purchases in the CIP we're still looking at keeping our tax capacity great at roughly the 3 32% up to 30 37% is the [1:03:01] **Julie Stahl**: peak um in these next 5 years that we're showing in the model um so still well within you know what our comparative neighbors are are charging or have for their tax rates um and I think it's it's in a comfortable level it's it's not the highest it's but it is um as we're reaching our growth Peaks here that these are the this is the tough years 25 26 27 little tough years um we um when you're looking at the general fund budget and those those big increases when you look at the general fund summary which is that big spreadsheet in the middle of the packet um just looking at Public Safety you know we're up 3.7 million in costs from [1:03:47] **Julie Stahl**: last year a lot of that yes is the safer Grant firefighters um so part of that re part of it's offset with the r up above up by 1.5 million but still a big cost and um I included again the this is what you saw the property tax capacity this chart here um that lists out this is from the long-term model that Northland help us update this year so that's that's building in all these growth assumptions and um Staffing increase those kind of things are are built into this model The Debt Service funds are all built on what we've got currently in the CIP um and that's where you see those [1:04:34] **Julie Stahl**: those tax capacity rates and how it fluctuates at the very bottom of that page um so in 2025 tax passive rate roughly 32. 69 um gets up to 37% in 2027 if we do those things that are so far scheduled in in CF for those years because the Big Driver and in that year is a lot of CIP um Capital expenditures um it did include again the Homestead market value exclusion because interestingly enough the median home value for Lakeville is right at the cusp of what changed for the market value exclusion it was at 413,000 so we were a lot of homes were already passed this [1:05:21] **Julie Stahl**: exclusion they weren't seeing that credit on their tax bill and now they're seeing a credit on their tax bill like what what this $7,000 credit on like I've had a couple calls people saying and I said well it was your lucky day reduced it you know got your taxable market value down um so it's affecting a lot of home owners and it affected our tax base too because the credit lowering their taxable market value **Mayor Luke Hellier**: but Julie on that doesn't it just shift I mean we still collect the same amount of money yes so it just shifts to properties that don't receive credit right basically **Julie Stahl**: the state the state's not giving us a check for that no no no so I mean it just shifts it **Mayor Luke Hellier**: yeah so if you're above it or [1:06:08] **Mayor Luke Hellier**: you're commercial you're you're paying for it **Julie Stahl**: yeah exactly um so then I I included the updated equipment plan the tech plan and facility plan those showing you you know what we've got out there in the CIP um those drivers of those lby increases um you've seen these when we presented the cfp in October so nothing extraordinary um there um but it wondered if you had any questions on any of that um or anything the way we've got it laid out anything you like changed before Monday nights and how we presented **Councilmember Dan Wolter**: do we know how many um what [1:06:55] **Councilmember Dan Wolter**: percentage of our housing the Homestead market value exclusion increase impacts I mean like how many what percentage of the houses in Lake they'll get that **Julie Stahl**: I don't get that information from got it from Scott County we've asked for before it's been a couple years so it would be fresh **Councilmember Dan Wolter**: is it you have an idea 10% 55 **Julie Stahl**: I think it's quite a few because it's yeah our median is what again for our Med below [1:07:34] **Julie Stahl**: um the only other thing is and I don't know if we're getting ourselves in like too much of a but it would be interesting to see you know at the at the median price if you put that plot that home in Farmington burville or Apple Valley what the city portion of the taxes compared to ours instead of talking about as capacity **Councilmember Dan Wolter**: oh talk about dollar what it would yeah definitely add that **Julie Stahl**: I I can add that as a separate here's what the city Levi's or what Rose mount's tax yeah exactly what you said yeah I just decided someone said it to me yeah **Councilmember Joshua Lee**: right if he if his math is right we're in pretty good position right **Julie Stahl**: I can easily do that if [1:08:19] **Julie Stahl**: gets a formula for that me home I I agree you look having a dollar amount is more just exp **Councilmember Joshua Lee**: you might be able on that same chart you show the rate on those same cities a column on the right side with a different color and say show the property tax on and not their Medi Home **Julie Stahl**: right but because yeah right [1:08:52] **Julie Stahl**: you yeah yeah I will add that to that same chart it it a little busy but I can explain it so um **Councilmember Dan Wolter**: on pages two and three I've SE two different balance percentages one is at 51 something and the other's a 50 yeah but on page three is the 2025 expected month balance so what would be end of 202 end of 2025 versus y **Julie Stahl**: on page two it's as oh that could be uh it could be just not grabbing the right formulas um oh I know what it is because at the end of [1:09:38] **Julie Stahl**: 2024 um we have a better we know what 25 expenditures are it could be just a timing issue to or what we put into that committed or designated fund balance that could be shifting it **Councilmember Dan Wolter**: just that I mean the 600,000 alone does designated for firefighters could be shifting it between those two I look at that I mean that would be what 00,000 six% yeah because every one% 480 yeah so I guess my question is if it is at 51.6 are we bringing that down to 50 per policy so that the tax levy is decreased by 800k **Julie Stahl**: we're not but we're [1:10:27] **Julie Stahl**: not recommending it's okay for us to be above our fund balance **Councilmember Dan Wolter**: I mean we were way above it when Co and all that extra money came in and it wasn't it wasn't a large flight for Moody's because you know City we had a plan of how we're going to spend that money um we Wen going to like just sit on this big pot of money Short change our residents by not decreasing the tax levy this this isn't that much over is that is that that what you're asking kind of a red flag as far **Julie Stahl**: well I mean I don't I doubt that that percentage is a red flag seems if it's out of above the policy then should decrease the ly by but then what we're yeah I'll have to check that [1:11:14] **Julie Stahl**: because the 2024 year end would not have our $600,000 doated fund balance because we want get the 19220 it sure so that that kind of affect if it's closer to the second number that I'm seeing 50.2 I'm not concerned and that's and that's where um that's where I think we need to keep the focus is actually we know all these expenditures that are coming in 2025 that we need to prepare for and that's if we're lucky enough and again you know we've budgeted the uh permits at 300,000 you know if we have another slow year like this one if if the economy doesn't Rebound in that aspect um we could be short changing ourselves [1:11:59] **Julie Stahl**: Revenue wise and there's a risk we take if we do that so I don't think we need by decreasing the levy or even talking about decreasing the levy to stay with the net fund balance we're really cutting it short or potential if the market doesn't rebound for the permits and the other **Councilmember Joshua Lee**: but wouldn't you just designate some of the excess fund balance and designate for the next year I mean instead of decreasing the **Julie Stahl**: we can do that too yeah I mean there we can just designate so we stay at the 50 excuse me stay at the 50% too and designating it as a contingency for if other revenues come in [1:12:47] **Julie Stahl**: short **Councilmember Dan Wolter**: I think my M goes to on an already a year if there are ways to bring that ly down and we're over policy then unless there's a better use of those funds um why would we not decrease the **Mayor Luke Hellier**: yeah I'm I'd be curious to know if it was the right the right number is so our just to reaffirm our our policy is 40 to 50 right [1:13:36] **Julie Stahl**: yeah and again I mean I designating that if we were to designate some of the 2024 balance just so it didn't look bad I don't for lack of better word um it it still gives the US the opportunity council with any designate a fund balance Council as authority to say how we should spend that money um and again if it's if there if we get some something come up that we hadn hadn't planned on you know that it's an easy um easy to do by having getting Council approval on paying for something like that **Mayor Luke Hellier**: I think that's what the other 10% of that fund balance is for is that's our range right 10 [1:14:21] **Mayor Luke Hellier**: 4% but we're wanting to be comfortable everybody's like oh what happens when we drop below 50% well it's okay because our range is actually 40 to 50 so and I see your point I mean it it may the appearance of it for at the end of 2024 could be misleading or um but again we've got a lot of big costs that I mean it just with the the general fund the way we've got the 2025 budget structured with conservative building permit Revenue we're going to just come in again at just at the 50% Mark so oh that's okay to me it's okay yeah it's okay I think [1:15:07] **Mayor Luke Hellier**: um but if you want depends how you want the story The Narrative to be given um I think we're we're we're trying to be fiscally responsible but also not cutting ourselves too short um and I get I get it we've got a whole another 10% to go but we don't want to lose our AAA rating either so we don't want to have this huge drop in that fund balance **Councilmember John Bermel**: the uh I mean the designation is is a twe couple of the pitfalls there you don't want to turn that into a surplus and you um you know it's just knowing I mean looking at this budget and looking at the next three years I [1:15:52] **Councilmember John Bermel**: don't think there's going to be any um lack of places to you know use that money to help bring the levy down if if we did design if we were over 50% and designated it um I think we want to just keep a clear keep a close look on it because once again we just don't want that to turn into a surplus where we're just holding on money but I just have a feeling with the way things are looking the next few years if we did have to designate to get to 50% I think that'd be a good strategy because sure something we use we could easily if we do come out out ahead truly come out out ahead at 2024 um we could designate easily those monies that we're planning to Levy for the equipment fund or those other those ongoing um maintenance levies we could [1:16:39] **Councilmember John Bermel**: say yeah let's designate 500,000 of the general fund excess for the equipment Levy and we won't need to then Levy in 2026 for as much **Councilmember Joshua Lee**: you can reduce it by 600,000 seems like a pretty wide the way this is uh the numbers here is that I know we had taken some from what we intended intended to put into the equipment fund I believe um is that reinstating that contribution to the equipment fund yet **Julie Stahl**: it it's not because we plan to use licker funds we we increased the liquor contributions to bring down the September uh preliminary so and the liquor fund is the fund balance on the liquor is very healthy and we can do [1:17:24] **Julie Stahl**: that for this year and not put it into a bad position so we bumped up that liquor contribution **Councilmember Michelle Volk**: it it's six and a half doz know but is if we can make ourselves kind of whole with our philosophy again of these this tax levies is intended to put monies here here and here in these different funds **Councilmember Joshua Lee**: think it it makes most sense to to do that um and where the the liquor fund needs to be appropriated later um maybe it's is makes more sense in my mind I don't know maybe it doesn't matter to others but I'm just trying to understand what you're saying too and [1:18:09] **Councilmember Joshua Lee**: you normally i' be like right there with you saying okay let's decrease this one but then I'm thinking oh my gosh look at the numbers for the next couple of years and if we can figure out a way to kind of offset next one so that's not as big as this one does that make sense you know trying to kind of plan ahead a little bit instead of just getting Buy in the checkbook this year to worry about the checkbook next year **Julie Stahl**: that's that's where I'm at and we we could even do I mean for not just December 2nd meeting but December 16th meeting when we we will have budget amendments we could do a budget amendment to have a certain dollar amount transfer out of the general fund to one of those other [1:18:56] **Julie Stahl**: Capital funds knowing that then we could reduce the 26 lucky that we would have to have for those we can easily do that as part of the just and it's being done before the end of the year so it's you know **Councilmember Joshua Lee**: well and I know we had certain goals for certain funs and so we can help put ourselves to where we wanted that fun to be that we dug into U to uh make sure that our lobby was was below a certain percentage then I'm certainly B with that and to me is a as a good use of funds I can I can rationalize that to taxpayers who are listening to this conversation and wondering well if there's an excess why should we just put back in my [1:19:45] **Councilmember Joshua Lee**: pocket **Mayor Luke Hellier**: I was gonna take it out of your pocket and more next year yeah so if I can take less from you next year like you putting they're putting a little bit of money in our savings account for to to offset SES that they that are coming up again you know how much people love the governmental City oh I do I do I [1:20:18] **Mayor Luke Hellier**: know **Councilmember Michelle Volk**: other questions **Mayor Luke Hellier**: I would just say um thanks to your team on tightening up the uh L percentage from where we were in September is it a little bit easier to deal with thank you for that **Julie Stahl**: so the final is 96 or is it 9 that's General it's still 12% overall the total Levy is still 12% right the general fund in part of that is the 96 9.6 [1:20:57] **Julie Stahl**: 8% for the general fund and the the park referendum is 2.4% and then the other mix of the other um Trail Improvement all that all that other stuff makes up roughly 1% and I would have that information too at the um December 2nd TR and Taxation to make up of the levy those increases is one of the slides and um I'd like to get I'm sorry what Michelle **Councilmember Michelle Volk**: I'd like it I'd like it to get out of the double digit [1:21:44] **Councilmember Michelle Volk**: increases here pretty soon so hopefully we can get there by next year **Julie Stahl**: well we won't have the the parked de or part referendum next year because we've issued all that debt **Councilmember Joshua Lee**: right well to that point if the franchise feed discussion does not go through and just for the sake of knowing how the impact of that is on tax levy when would that be assessed on a tax levy **Julie Stahl**: 2026 we' have to start we'd have to include in our Levy for the bonds that we're issuing for the first center here in March 2025 so a year from now it be in the 26 [1:22:31] **Julie Stahl**: lby [1:22:39] **Mayor Luke Hellier**: yeah than you **Julie Stahl**: all right I have 10 minutes I think to do the corly right as much time as you need um we were hoping for better numbers in the building permit area but um we're still I'm crossing my fingers and I'm I'm telling Dave Matthews he's got a pump pavement more because right now as of November 19th we're at 252 single families 300 was a a conservative budget yeah I mean I don't know I don't know how we are in the rest of the year but from the conversations I only that I've had Builders since the first of the month they are very optimistic about they are or not they are yeah yeah **Councilmember Joshua Lee**: we have a lot in the [1:23:26] **Councilmember Joshua Lee**: pipeline I mean you've ined some plats there's some others that have been digging building streets and utilities so there's def **Mayor Luke Hellier**: to go yeah the r stuff is going to come we have a couple commercial and Industrial some projects that are likely to break around [1:23:47] **Mayor Luke Hellier**: to yeah he said that they're going to have some R sales by Summer something and all depends when those building permits get issued we get to recognize the revenue is so that's a big driver um everything else is pretty much in line uh general fund revenues are um 74% of the budget so you know for third quarter that that's rating the Mark um Personnel expenditures are at 75% of budget which is again right where we want them to be um for third quarter so um there wasn't anything really too much that jumped out at us we had a formula error that we [1:24:33] **Julie Stahl**: caught something like oh yes that's much a better number so it was pretty funny because I uh there's an acral that Julia wner has to build in these acrs and she had one extra zero in the police so it was like 3 million instead of 300,000 like wait a second that's way over budget so anyway **Councilmember Joshua Lee**: school districts me a little nervous um on the parks and rec Revenue yes do we know is that is it driven from rental at antlers driven from classes at Finance building or **Julie Stahl**: I think it's um antlers that we weren't [1:25:19] **Julie Stahl**: plan I mean there's definitely some money that came in um there that had words not have been part of the budget um but they also had a lot of more program Revenue too so so **Councilmember Michelle Volk**: the Investments are yep pay off y **Julie Stahl**: um yeah I mean there there's a lot of changes I mean the Erp costs are that was big a big driver at least for finance budget you know for 2024 that's going to fall off in 2025 just down to ongoing maintenance um so general fund is and it like I said you know it's looking good we'll end the year at at a good percentage and hopefully be able to have solid enough [1:26:06] **Julie Stahl**: numbers to uh bring to that December 16th meeting some budget amendments that could include a transfer out to help reduce those 2026 levies um water fund I'm skip to that one everything else with communication it's it's going like we thought it would with revenues continuing to decrease slightly the fund balance in the communication fund is is okay um we don't have to be ConEd right now with that one liquor fund again sales have been pretty uh light um but they're they're holding it they're holding their own the the gross profit margin is better than it was a year ago um by 1% so they're they're doing they're doing [1:26:52] **Julie Stahl**: fine they're not they're not sinking um well it's hard to just like year after year after year yeah you can't yeah keep we I know my wine seller is empty so I need shopping um the water fund as you probably remember our conversation with the wet year it's really affected um the revenues in the water fund um we did increase rates for by 3% in 2024 and the 2025 budget we've been increased it to a 6% I believe it was um that's helping to make up for the D the wet year um [1:27:40] **Julie Stahl**: hoping to again to do our pay as you go so when it's time in 2027 for the water treatment plant um that we're not having to issue any bonds but we may have to Issue 5 million of bond even with the rate increases um but uh operating expenditures for water fund are under busted at 61% so um Again part of that though is projects and where all the timing of those expenditures come in so um M mcees their fees increased 6.8% in 2024 so that's that's a big chunk of money so um we pay them rough five and a half million for them to process the water or the [1:28:28] **Julie Stahl**: sewer I should say um Street lighting it's it's doing fine um they're exceeding the budget for revenues and um again that has to do with growth basically because we didn't increase those rates at all environmental resource fund um we did not increase those rates either and those revenues are slightly higher too again I think that's um having to do with the growth in the city so um anything questions on the third quarter report anything that you saw any numbers that were alarming **Councilmember John Bermel**: are you realizing the efficiencies of the new system **Julie Stahl**: we just had that discussion today [1:29:13] **Julie Stahl**: uh not yet we're um it's still taking a lot of time um we thought we'd see a lot of Saving Time Savings at least in finance with the AP because how it it's dispersed and departments are entering their own information and then finances the gatekeeper we check coding and everything and then mov them through the system um we've had a lot of time put in uh we were not realizing the time savings yet um nobody in the city is um but there's a learning curve associated with the two so um we're hopeful that it will get there it's just been it's just been a lot um and probably see some overtime in the finance department here I know you will actually trying to get utility [1:30:01] **Julie Stahl**: doing I think more on the individual level I think people are finding the efficiencies with it especially with the reporting part that Julia over some stuff with me earlier last week and to crank out a report on your budget is super easy us we never could do it before individually right so I think there will be definitely some great benefits of on we get it all figured out and then what's really really nice about it is the it's live so you know if you if you get shown or you get the reports buil to like okay oh yeah and I need to see everything even that maybe encumbered with a purchase order there's a way to get to see that information so it's very helpful for those people that have got those big budgets that they're trying to say okay what have I got left out of all these [1:30:46] **Julie Stahl**: projects that are going on so it's really nice and really nice to have the purchase orders tracking a project at the project level so um because there's a lot of spreadsheets that we do all that with right now not that the spreadsheets are going to go away completely until we have full Full Faith and comfortable with how it all goes in the system um but I mean we're excited and we're still excited it's just it's a lot **Councilmember Dan Wolter**: has the uh has the vendor been responsive in terms of oh hey we need this or how do we do this **Julie Stahl**: or they've been very responsive we had to um with the implementation itself uh there were set up things that they were problematic that we didn't get a lot of training when we they thought we [1:31:31] **Julie Stahl**: should have been getting training so they comped us some training time we just had to pay their airfare for some inperson time that extra time that we got with them and we I mean Lakeville is a is um we're special because we have the other two entities that we're the Fiscal Agent for so that creates a whole another Dynamic with all the different the bank accounts and how we had to do before we transferred funds and we were trying to get away from that and but by getting away from that having separate checking accounts for all three entities create some challenges that they haven't had to have with other clients so we've got three other three federal ID numbers that we process payrolls for you know um so there it's definitely had its [1:32:17] **Julie Stahl**: challenges we are we are we're making them work I guess it's the best way to put it but and having to Think Through what is the best way to set this up because it's not something they've encountered before actually you know one entity I to do different Financial grp **Justin Miller**: trust me were in a much better place than if we had stayed with logis oh [1:32:46] **Justin Miller**: my **Julie Stahl**: we a lot of the cities are neighbor cities that are with logist they like getting bsna um demos and actually the our sales rep was just down in Farmington last week so they stopped by here went through the special assessment module demo with us so um it's exciting it really is because going from three or four different softwares down to one or maybe two because we got cograph you know but it's just having it all in one place is really nice so again it's a learning curve though because that's it's [1:33:32] **Julie Stahl**: R other questions thank you thank you both **Mayor Luke Hellier**: uh moving on to items for future discussion the committee City administrator updates **Justin Miller**: uh had the Dakota 911 board directors me week um that went pretty well uh it's interesting because they are very pleased with how we're able to deliver with the new Erp um I know there's some adjustments and learning Cur I've been talked about some technology stuff uh there's an audio data so it's how you record what's going [1:34:18] **Justin Miller**: on and back in the day it used to be two bigs with it's not bad anymore um so just approved the contract for that but it's going to have some really cool uh capabilities in terms of just analysis and calls I mean it sounds like they only would be able to do like voice stress tone analysis and things like that so really really cool um so that's uh in the process of taking bids and approving them getting that going and then under cyber security I mean I think it's uh it's uh timely to have it in our thing because uh they're going to dcoa 911 is going to sign on with some cyber security services that just build a [1:35:05] **Justin Miller**: firewall um tries to analyze what threats are on because the problem with it I think the reason that you know we want to make that a priority too is it's not just building the wall it's it's understanding how quickly and rapidly that changes and you know keeping up with it so I think that's a timely uh timely piece and then yeah otherwise it was pretty uh pretty straightforward meeting **Mayor Luke Hellier**: are they still doing well on Staffing **Justin Miller**: and uh you know better um as a matter of fact I you know the Staffing's good you know you the thing about public safety and the 247 thing is there's always somebody out with something yeah and you know so even if you have regular [1:35:51] **Justin Miller**: staff and them trying to get to the director I mean I knew for years that they were short and then I think two years ago they finally caught up with enough yeah then they just didn't know where they were at they aren't as short as they were what program they started to uh to help with that is taking ar time so very kind of stringent on what they do but uh taking retired dispatchers experienced dispatchers particularly they quot to 911 ones so they retire but they can back in work and that's been very helpful in filling gaps for short term uh and then the hiring they only I think it was like three people under what the the maximum is authorized so yes they [1:36:39] **Justin Miller**: were doing really well with Staffing and all that **Mayor Luke Hellier**: and how do you like the new director **Justin Miller**: uh one of the things that we addressed was that we just received her performance evaluation um she is really really doing well okay um she knows her stuff I the thing I can tell you is this I knows uh what she's she knows the business she knows uh what they need at toota 911 she knows the language she knows the people so it's been very good uh very much on top of things uh I trust what she's doing explicitly and she's done uh very well and her performance evaluation reflected there okay [1:37:27] **Mayor Luke Hellier**: yeah there is conversation about how calls are being coded um not that that has anything to do with their performance sorry I didn't seem like that um was connected but it made me think about uh Alf in our recent meeting which last week we approved a change to how uh paramedics are being scheduled because paramedics are in short supply and so instead of requiring two paramedics on every bre you know now a paramedic and potentially an ENT in place of that second paramedic which over with the pilot that happened over the summer there was no change in care or quality um but I think there's ongoing conversations about what they're [1:38:12] **Mayor Luke Hellier**: responding to and how those are being coded through dispatch um and if they need to send a rig to every single or if they're if they can Cod it in a way that a truck uh which is not staffed by two paramedics um can go to the scene because many of those calls pretty we have a a spot in Apple Valley are Falls that uh senior Falls that someone needs to just help them back up there there's not even an injury it's just can't get up um so that's uh that's part of the update that I have for Al **Councilmember Joshua Lee**: but sounds like Val needs a duty gr fire [1:38:59] **Councilmember Joshua Lee**: department **Mayor Luke Hellier**: um and it's interesting because a lot of those designations are just automatic based on the software you start asking questions and it does this and it says send this um so it's it's yeah that's an interesting piece of that just fig that's been a conversation for oh my goodness 15 years I seriously I So eventually it'll it'll hopefully get worked out but a lot of that is it's they just don't have ability to say one just but people can there are pieces is people can cancel each other as 35W Solutions we had a um I'll say an [1:39:48] **Mayor Luke Hellier**: unprompted discussion about the or an unscheduled discussion about kind of the future of the organization there is a plan to being pushed by some to hire a consultant to reevaluate Regional projects that should be on the priority list commissioner Holberg I think appropriately gave some push back there saying we've got everything literally everything uh in the policy in the objectives of that organization done except for Lake El go New Market you know the further south areas and and the discussion then kind of went to let's get those done before we start looking at you know Cedar Avenue or other other things and then that prompted an interesting interesting comments by people saying well maybe if we get this all done we could just dissolve this organization um so it was really kind of an interesting um Ian did bring out the [1:40:35] **Mayor Luke Hellier**: diversity of that Coalition you know people from Richfield weren't quite so sure that elob market should be high on the priority list and so kind of went into some but anyway no we're we're still evaluating whether to hire a consultant to uh to tell us all of this $5,000 of consult which to be didn't seem like consult but there um there has been a a gap in convening that technical advisory committee there too just because we we know what the objectives of that Coalition have been know for for a long time so I know Zach was going to take a leadership role so interesting it was one of the hotter meetings we've had it's really unfair that they make everybody go to Richfield I don't [1:41:29] **Mayor Luke Hellier**: know Iowa they're excited about their bike bike bridge over 494 we had quite B discussion about that talking about just trying to get traffic up Interstate but was an interesting meeting uh Fire Relief continues to discuss vesting schedule changes um and the viability and impact of a change to a defined contribution plan um the second piece is very preliminary at this point um but I asked Justin to include that as a January [1:42:14] **Mayor Luke Hellier**: Retreat good **Councilmember Dan Wolter**: the only EDC we we're wrapping up some of the Strategic plan stuff and then um there will be some conversation about uh business retention type programs moving forward some so that's good **Mayor Luke Hellier**: umal Council of Mayors we had another conversation about housing we'll see how it plays out and we had our exciting Petro City's policy adoption meeting with our two votes for the first time wow **Councilmember Michelle Volk**: who was the second vote **Mayor Luke Hellier**: well it's all by anyway was a moment of Pride when they announc the cities that got you [1:42:59] **Mayor Luke Hellier**: V **Councilmember Dan Wolter**: did someone lose their vote **Mayor Luke Hellier**: just 75,000 people get two vation goes down **Councilmember Joshua Lee**: you voted twice is what you're saying that was my question last time gr two votes we were we were a little under 75 Point um **Mayor Luke Hellier**: the last one I would say is that thanks for submitting your C the administrator evaluations um we'll be Clos session after next week's meeting to we're all accomodating Dan next week is December already **Councilmember Dan Wolter**: no [1:43:46] **Justin Miller**: yeah yes Thanksgiving is Thursday this a very late Thanksgiving **Mayor Luke Hellier**: that's why yeah really we're moving out all up just for me h i i teasing you actually we can't go into a close session with you can't no **Councilmember Michelle Volk**: why not be somebody in the room right is that why **Justin Miller**: probably well yeah I mean technically in my thoughts **Mayor Luke Hellier**: yeah there yeah doesn't matter doesn't matter we're accommodating good I appreciate I appreciate you all am I the only one who's going to be gone at that [1:44:30] **Mayor Luke Hellier**: yeah that's true uh I'll take a motion to **Councilmember Joshua Lee**: I move to **Councilmember Michelle Volk**: Second **Mayor Luke Hellier**: faor say [1:44:50] **Mayor Luke Hellier**: i i s so I'm sure I will do [1:45:01] **Justin Miller**: yeah that mean I