[Music] okay uh despite our technical difficulties we are going to start uh the cochrane planning commission meeting for uh april 7th 2022 and we will now go to um [Music] our roll call and so commissioner jacobs here commissioner bruhmann here commissioner lanternman here mr shellac here commissioner vandenknighty here all right uh everybody's in attendance thank you all right at this point for those that would like please join us for pledge of allegiance to the flag of the united states of america and to the republic for which it stands one nation under god indivisible with liberty and justice for all all right thanks everybody um we do have a very lengthy and busy schedule tonight and so with that being said we are going to it doesn't look like there's a lot of us in the audience i don't know how many might be online but we are going to uh try to limit the the public speaking opportunities to five minutes each if you're if you go past that we can certainly allow more time but just be cognizant that we're trying to not cut you off but we're trying to keep a schedule because i anticipate we most likely will be here past 11 maybe midnight so with that in mind we will move on to the approval of tonight's agenda anybody have any changes to tonight's agenda [Music] now i'll take a motion to approve the agenda i'll make that motion all right all those in favor of approving tonight's agenda say aye aye all right agenda is approved okay open forum tonight's open forum as always is the opportunity for those in audience and those outside in cyber world to speak or to address the planning commission on any issue that is not already on the agenda so at this moment [Music] uh is there anybody in the audience that came here for open forum yes sir [Music] what what are you here to speak about i have some questions um the development that you propose okay uh do you know which one that i mean it's substation or the northeast district that is oh yeah that's the last item on the internet the binder out there will have a copy of the agenda as well if there's not a copy of it but you can definitely take a look at it it's just there's one copy for anyone interested okay uh now if there's anybody online that would like to participate in open forum natalie will give you the instructions to um make yourself noticed members of the public on zoom if you are on a mobile device or computer please access the raise your hand function usually located under the reactions menu and those who are on the phone i believe you'd want to press star 9 to raise your hand and mr chair i don't see any hands raised okay we'll move on then to um the minutes from march 3rd 2022. does anybody have any questions comments or corrections for the minutes i do have one that might need just a little clarification i think it was rather important and that would be for the um [Music] that would be for the substation right hennepin so on page 3 under roman numeral 4 commission discussion and recommendation we did talk about substations and residential zones the use and process of eminent domain and the ability of the applicant to apply for the preliminary plant prior to the completion of eminent domain it goes on to say then that simply the motion was made by lanternmen seconded yada yada i think it would be important maybe just for the record to show that that this commission recommended denial because of that one specific reason does anybody agree with that i agree with that okay i mean otherwise it looks like there really wasn't any specific reason why the commission voted to deny i think that's a i think that's pretty important for the record anybody else okay i'll have a motion to approve the minutes from march 3rd i'll make that motion and i'll second all right all those in favor say aye aye opposed not available okay we'll get into the meat and potatoes of tonight's feast we'll enter into our new business [Music] our first order of business is the item 6a preliminary plat site plan and administrative permit for corcoran 2 substation now this particular item came back to this planning commission at the request of the city council this is not a public hearing and there is no resolution by which this commission will render a vote to be so sorry to interrupt you but we also we have the public comment opportunity for anything that's not a public hearing before we get into ray hennepin it wasn't that open forum no the open forums are anything not on the gender i remember we have a public comment opportunity uh before we that for anything that's not a public hearing that is on the agenda prior to starting your hennepin so like if somebody wants to talk about item 6h we're going to let him talk now and then we'll try to remember it in four hours we can that's what we have on the agenda but we can definitely change it to each item if that's how you prefer to run the meeting why don't we do it on each item okay okay that's okay all right so um so the the city council specifically referred this back to this planning commission with one sole purpose and that sole purpose is to make a recommendation because in the process of denying the application this commission did not render a full recommendation on issues related to screening and landscaping recording in progress as such the city council who i am appreciative that values our input wanted to seek that input before they made their final decision therefore it ends up back to us today now we as a commission and as a city are always very liberal in in allowing our residents and interested parties to address so we're not going to exclude anybody from discussing what's on their mind related to this substation i would ask respectfully though there has been a lot of um testimony passionate sincere [Music] from residents and as a result we have to great lengths and so we would appreciate that if it's something that has already been spoken to that we limit that very very closely to the shortest time possible because again this commission tonight is not to discuss or render an opinion as to whether or not this application should be approved or not we are simply going to discuss issues related to screening and [Music] landscaping so with that being said mr chair yes um the you are correct in that the packet that we have been provided uh or that has been provided to us does direct us to review the applica the application exclusively on the limited issue of screening however in two emails and one phone call i had with the mayor i was told that this commission's review tonight is not limited to screening and in fact when i went back and looked at the video of the city council meeting that does not appear to be the direction now i'm fine limiting it to screening but i just want to note that that's not the direction that we've received at least not what we've received from the mayor okay and and i thank you for that clarification again we've always been very liberal in allowing public comment and within the commission itself debate on any issue and any questions so i don't want to limit or cut anybody off in that but to the end point um given our schedule i would hope that we limit our comments in our discussion to try to focus on at least a consensus of what it is that we want to give to the city council so with that being said is there anybody in the audience that would like to speak to the commission on item 6a no is there anybody online again natalie will give you instructions to anyone wanting to speak on the right-handed pin substation online please raise your hand uh the computer or mobile devices will be able to access the raise your hand function under the reactions tab and if you're on a phone you should be able to raise your hand by hitting star nine and no one is raising their hand at this time mr chair okay in the best interest of moving on if if somebody comes on late uh please let us know but um at this point then we will move on to staff report please and for those in the audience i guess the only way you're going to be able to see this you'll all have to turn around your chair the screen behind you on the wall closest to the door will have the presentation mr chair all i would just say just because we're having to have a couple difficulties all of the graphics uh were included in the original packet or a follow-up um email that was sent to the commission and then amended on the online packet but again this is the right hennepin site on larkin n116 the planning commission as you noted did hold the public hearing on march 3rd and recommended denial at the march 24th meeting the council did direct it back to the planning commission the screening discussion is related to how the site should be screened section 1060.070 requires screening to provide a minimum of 80 percent opacity when screening is required and screening should use natural topography where possible in corcoran there's not a lot but where possible and then says it should use landscaping fences walls or berming to address that the applicant's plan shows a seven foot tall chain link fence with barbed wire at the top and plastic slats in the chain link to provide the screening and then surrounding the site 56 overstory trees and 62 shrubs and this image is a site rendering provided by the applicant that shows the some view sheds from larkin road on the top and from 116 on the bottom with just a chain link fence and again i understand people here cannot read this but hopefully the images that were in the packet you could zoom in on at home and take a look at so this is just the renderings with just a chain-link fence and landscaping staff does not believe this option complies with the code standard for 80 opacity the second option is the current proposal from wright hennepin which is a chain link fence again with the barbed wire on top with the slats this is not necessarily their fence here this is just an example of a different site to give you some sense of what that looks like and then again the view sheds on the top from larkin and from 116 on the bottom staff does believe that the combination of the slatted fence and vegetation does meet the 80 opacity this was the staff recommendation in the march 3rd packet and this is consistent with what we've required for other development in corcoran historically a combination of slatted chain link fence and landscaping the third option provided by the applicant in their packet is just a wall i am calling it a wall it might be a plastic fence this image here is actually a plastic fence but a fence company provides it but it feels like a wall i think and this example was something that was in your packet this was from the website referenced in council member nichols email that was included in the packet that was some of the discussion at the council meeting this would certainly provide 100 opacity for the ground equipment the planning commission should discuss and provide a recommendation on screening for the site and the evaluation should be based on the code standards i put this in the staff report so i won't review it revisit it excuse me the council asked that the recommendation from tonight's planning commission be forwarded to them at next week's meeting so this will be forwarded to the april 14th council meeting [Music] in your packet again there were additional graphics i didn't repeat all of them thank goodness since we can't see them but happy to answer questions mr chair the applicant is here as well okay great thank you um all right um would is there anybody that would like to start off for commission discussion recommendations questions thank you uh i received a letter at my home from a resident bringing to my attention that you kendra were caught sharing an editorial commentary on a hot mic during our last meeting during a break and we can pull up the video if we have internet here but at uh starting at minute 46 and 30 seconds of part two of the may 3rd 2022 meeting but i can represent to you that in reference to me you said quote we did vet it referring to this application we expected that embedded it with our attorney so i'm disappointed that our attorney talking to jess and i and me sharing that with you didn't carry as much weight as a commissioner who is not our city attorney first i do not know how you can expect any weight to be given to your representations about the city attorney's advice on this when you did not include any discussion of it in the last staff report you claim that you preemptively address this issue but i have a hard time believing you because the resolution that made its way to the council had to be modified to include a contingency that the application will only be approved provided that wright hennepin secures title to the property it seems to me that no one thought of this issue until it was discussed at our last meeting i have no reason to think otherwise again because you did not include it in the packet for reasons unbeknownst to me i also do not know why you believe you have the authority to withhold material from an application or to direct members of this commission on what we can or cannot discuss or consider our city code provides that quote the planning commission shall recommend approval of the preliminary plan if it in always conforms to the city's comprehensive plan zoning ordinance this chapter and all chapters of the city code i'm quoting from 930.010 sub 4d that language is intentionally broad and inherently means that there are no issues that are outside the scope of this commission's review in the future if you preempt an issue or consider an issue it must be included in the packet i do not know why in this case information about a conversation related to the application you allegedly had with the city attorney was not mentioned in our last packet second your attempt to discredit my position at the last meeting is not only inappropriate it is not well supported because one like i mentioned there was an effort after the fact to add new contingency language to a draft resolution presented to the council and two this commission's authority is on an equal plane with the city attorney look at our city's organizational chart i will not stand for any member of this commission being disparaged or ideas discounted because of the insinuation that they are not qualified that is inappropriate in the end i ask that if you do have conversations with anyone that have any bearing on any issue and that you allege to have participated please include it in your report i would also remind you that your role is that of an advisor not as an advocate for any applicant moving on i can understand and in fact i i even sympathize with wright hennepin's frustration with this process and wright hennepin's perhaps even feeling blindsided it seems to me like they have worked with staff extensively on this application i think that for such substantial applications though there needs to be oversight from the city council or perhaps from this commission at the outset a dialogue some communication even so that an applicant this the city council and staff are all on the same page throughout the entire process the fact is what staff says is not gospel they are not elected nor are they appointed so in that respect i understand wright hennepin's frustrations with respect to the court's order it seems that now some of the defect i highlighted previously has been cured and that title will be transferred to wright hennepin if two things happen and i'm quoting from the order title ii and possession of owner's real property rights described in the petition and attached as exhibit a shall vest in petitioner wright hennepin on april 26 2022 or the date on which petitioner deposits with the hennepin county district court administrator or pays to the owner the amount of four hundred and eighty nine thousand two hundred and thirty dollars and seventy seven cents whichever date is later because the later of the two dates has not occurred i still think that this application is not properly before this commission tonight but with the contingency and this order it gives me uh some comfort i said it at the last meeting i think wright hennepin now has the stronger position they are an essential service and i think that based upon my research the law permits them to do as they propose now if we're simply going to provide our insight on the types of screening i'll turn it over to the other commissioners and provide my feedback on that as the discussion progresses thank you thank you sir um all right um let me kind of set this up in terms of [Music] the issue of screening and landscaping did you all get a chance to look at the wall okay so basically um [Music] the wall was discussed because and i and i hold some belief in all of this that one it does provide 100 screening too it might help abate the noise um and three it is uh more of a security type of fence now we don't have a lot of threats and violence and and everything else i don't know who's going to be compelled to go put a high-powered rifle in there and shoot it all up but um [Music] there is that as an option and and through uh a request that i made to uh [Music] well plastic or concrete okay yeah i i know that there's several different types of yeah of solid walls we'll call it solid um uh but uh that's that was what was brought up uh through some of uh counselor nichols research and then there were some additional items that were provided uh from the applicant themselves um [Music] now the the other option is we go with the the um city standard the the the chain link fence seven feet tall um now i don't believe originally that it was recommended that it be slatted but that would be our my suggestion to um and we should have that discussion if anybody disagrees with that and i think that there are several good reasons why we should absolutely require it from this applicant and it goes to the issue that has been talked about before and that is with the landscape did you all see the picture that that the applicant had sent regarding their lawndale substation okay now in a perfect world we would all love to have the kind of natural screening that that facility does provide however that is not something that will be achieved at this substation and here's why one that substation is generally four to six feet below the tree line so it actually like sits in a hole nice spider here [Music] and and and that may be caused either because the natural grade or it was because they burned it up the second thing is is that and we talked about this um in our first meeting and that was related to the amount of space that the applicant has left for planting trees around the perimeter and i know that i questioned it at our first public hearing and i couldn't really get a definitive response as to why that was but let's just for the sake of simplicity when you look at their landscape plant on l01 the trees on the west side the north side and the east side are all in a very linear line i don't suppose there's any ability to get those screenshots up well anyway if there's not there's not um i took them for you isn't it the next slide these yeah the lawndale site is that what you're looking for yeah okay so um in specifically speaking to the maple grove lawndale site okay there there there they are now the the row of trees closest to you at the bottom okay that is the west side and that and that is fronting the road uh lawndale or maple grove parkway it's a busy road just like 116 will be it does have uh sidewalks and whatnot on the right side is that substation is adjacent to the maple grove fire department number five and you can see that they have planted trees notice some trees are bigger on the street side on the west side than they are on the north side i don't know why um the south side of that site you can see has a lot of natural buffer uh that borders a pond and then actually wraps around which is not visible here but wraps around to the east side so there's only three or four tree there's four trees i believe planted on the south side and there's a couple trees planted on the east side now in looking at that and this is what um seems apparent to me unless something can be worked out on both of those the north side in the west side just like we would do with this here we would be concerned about the screening naturally on the north side and the west side the west side actually has three rows of trees the two inside rows closest to the substation are pine trees the outer row are the overstory trees now here's some facts oh and then the on the north side there's two rows of trees and those all are pines of some sort so in looking at that site that site is 1.17 acres in size the subject site is 2.87 so our site is more than twice the size in terms of linear feet that site lawndale has 880 linear feet our corcoran site has 1 000 well it's it's actually more [Music] there's 1165 linear feet on the west north and east side the south side would be comparable i just didn't add it because i'm trying to get to a calculation so we're talking with not as much perimeter and not as much size on the maple grove site on that north on that north side abutting the fire station they have 26 trees planted in two rows linear feet 252 feet the distance between the first row and the second row is 12 feet and i think that's important because as we look towards a solution for landscaping here the first question is does the applicant have 12 feet to give to do such a scattered pattern and what they're doing is they're planting trees in one row so each tree can grow to its full maximum without crowding out another one and then the second row is used to bridge the gap in between those two trees simple common sense stuff so when you look at the ratio of trees per linear foot in maple grove on the north elevation you get one tree per 9.7 feet linear one point or 9.7 linear feet the west side and and i'm going to just try to limit this just to the west side so the west side closest to the street they have 12 pines and six over story trees for a total of 18 in three rows the the depth of that tree row from the front row to the back row is 18 feet and it spans 143 linear feet so 18 trees spread over 143 linear feet ends up at one tree per 7.9 linear feet let's compare that then to our subject on the west side facing county road 116 that site is 477 linear feet we have scheduled for her there their site diagram 21 trees that is one tree per 22.7 linear feet the north side and that's again all single row the north side has 270 linear feet with 11 trees which works out to be one tree per 24 and a half feet and if we throw in the east side to show consistency that's 448 linear feet it has 19 trees which works out to one tree per 23.6 feet now the applicant had sent this to say this is a much better looking thing and i would agree but given the fact that they can't double roll those trees and given the fact that they are far below a tree count than what they've done in maple grove i don't see a practical way where we're ever going to achieve that for our corcoran site [Applause] and that um would be i guess i mean if you take that ratio so if we were to apply nine you know eight tree per nine linear feet just for the north and west side um at that you'd have to have 83 trees to replicate what you've got in maple grove per our plan they have 32 so there's a deficit of 51 trees now i don't know why that is and it i don't know that really matters our code is our code we can recommend things like that but um maybe that something has to be changed in the in the future but i just wanted to show you that given what we're dealing with on this site um [Music] i think the i think a resolution to this would be some kind of kind of like we supposedly get benefits out of a pud you know we're we're going to give you you know you guys want to do something at the bare minimum of what is required chain link fence and and you the exact same number of trees that is required no more no less um now one of the things i noticed and and i i've discussed this with wright hennepin and we've discussed it amongst ourselves i've always been a big advocate of listen why do we always have to plant four foot pine trees that are take you know 10 years to 20 years to grow to its full maximum when we can you know require maybe say a bigger tree up a spaded tree to get the bigger bang for the buck right now immediate now given given the the comments that have come both at our meeting our open open forum and and those comments that i witnessed at the city council meeting we do have an obligation to consider things like sight um enjoyment noise and things like that i don't know that we can address electromagnetic fields and and everything like that but to the best extent i think we need to show that we at least gave it an attempt to address the issues that concern the members of our community and the future of of what will be used for that land so to that extent the question again would that be best served by a a a solid concrete wall which wright hennepin has suggested if they are going to be required to do that there would be no need for any any landscape at all and while i would certainly maybe disagree with that position you know that's maybe the trade-off that they'd have to get in order to to make that work [Applause] so um i'm wondering if um you know when you look at the other sites they also had a monument you know saying that this is the maple grove lawndale substation and their emblem and it's got rocks and boulders and a big natural stone they did it up in northern corcoran etc etc i did notice at our very first public hearing on the first site that they had that they didn't put that in and i was told that well we just don't do that anymore but in my discussions and trying to find maybe a happy medium i suggested that maybe the solution here would be to put up the chain link fence put the slats in [Music] and then for trees go with go with a selection i don't know if it's a hundred percent or a combinat you know a um a certain percentage of them maybe different types but go with the biggest tree that they can fit in there which would be a spaded tree so get the biggest bang for the buck that we can uh the slats i think will help certainly with the visual i do believe it'll help with sound will it be as good as a solid wall i don't know you know i'm not that technical um and and then as a boost to show that that you know we're not we are not going to just you know suggest to the city council that we're going to do the minimum you know put up a nice entry monument give us the bigger trees give us some good screening through the fence and and to the extent that you can work with staff to determine whether or not there's any possibility of getting the trees out of a pure linear line you know because i don't know why they're not closer to the fence or or or whatnot there's got to be some sort of reason because they're professional landscapers certainly didn't put them that way but i think that there's a a better way to do it and and those would be the suggestions that i would have so uh with that being said your comments and and questions to me staff the applicant what's your thoughts on this issue stonewall or chain-link fence and bigger trees yes sir so where is the idea of a concrete wall coming from right hennepin doesn't want to do that correct no that was a this that was a comment that was made by i i don't remember it was made by yeah uh counselor varen camp and then okay when they asked and they suggested they come back to the planning commission they asked for my comment i said sure right i was actually going to pass a note to um [Music] the council to say why maybe consider a block wall but he beat me to it yes sir mr chair if i may thank you for asking my frustration in the reason i brought up that idea only an idea was related to it is going in a very visible place in our town and i as as commissioner chair jacob says waiting for the trees to grow those kind of things my frustration came out and i should be they have a little thicker skin but i'm not crazy about chain length and plastic slacks i'm just not okay is there and i think if i say it right is there a way that you maybe not have to do a burrow here a wall up there noise panels along the interstate i was just spitballing brainstorming whatever on something better than chain link in a slotted fifth yeah and it's it's turned into this i did not say concrete i said you drive down 494 694 now they've even got big maple leaves in the concrete walls and stuff some type of sound barrier i completely understand the decimal size this is the hum of the the home of the transformers is slightly above our conversation right now so yeah 100 feet away would you hear us talking no i understand the decibels i understand all the things that are here i just want something that's more appealing to the eye than chain link yeah chairs chairs comment about spaded trees those kind of things all that stuff i i received the same email from wright hennepin about putting up concrete what if we've got problems underground and stuff that immediately got me to the point is there a way they can put a defense over those feeder lines and stuff that could collapse retract so they could do their service those kind of that's all stuff i would talk to the councilman i just i wanted i i'm the one blaming me for this going that long i'm a big guy i can shoulder it i just want something better than um i hear you and i i i agree with you aesthetically but i will mention though that our city code specifically states that the city quote prefers natural screening so i don't know why we would expect right hennepin to deviate from this and and build something that's not called for to me it ju it just seems unfair that we have this code out there we have applicants spending money planning projects based on the code only to come here and get holes poked in it again my conversation mark commissioner landerman was again the frustration of the community everything that's going on oh i share that with you you're gonna eat this you're gonna whatever and the thing in my mind i asked staff and stuff could we request more and they think coming back we can request but our ordinance says this right so i'm trying to if i can smooth over and whatever happened the last meeting for you guys and stuff that it's all resolved we know the outcome we know things like that i wanted to come back to the planning commission if there was a way and i'm hoping and i'm believing that right hennepin is listening y'all spend some time chair jacob sounds like he has i just i want it to look really really good right from the start not wait 20 years ago that's just me and if i'm asking too much somebody just tell me you're not steamed that's me so you've all made great comments tonight commissioner landerman great and i'm glad you guys have set the record straight and stuff i just i did not want to come to the council and not have your guys's input on screening in this discussion that we're having now i just i was on the money commission and i didn't like the council got it and it's just we didn't let our volunteers right do or recommend or make suggestions those kind of things again i hope everybody's listening so thank you thank you very much thank you chairman is there a reason why the trees are being spread out you you covered a lot of important points and i can only think so fast is there a reason why uh you threw out what was it uh at one site it was one tree every nine feet that's maple grove and multiple groves so every nine feet one tree what is the ratio being proposed at this site they're one in and 23 24 feet okay so less than half the density and is there some logistical hardship or is it just that we don't want to pay for that that's just what our code says they did it our code and i can't quite figure it out our code says one tree or or a story tree per lit 50 linear feet of perimeter i highly doubt we would be expecting something to be completely shielded which is really what we want here well not at one per 50 feet yeah yeah we would that would never shield but here we're looking for a complete shield i mean this maple grow one you can't even see it yeah yeah it doesn't but our code says one for every 50 feet yeah but and but that's why i can't figure out what how do we get one per 24 that's yeah that'd be like saying well the applicant added twice as many of what was required is there an answer for that or any kind of yeah i wasn't sure i was quite following your math but the numbers and that you said 52 over story trees is what our code requires based on the perimeter of the site and so i'm not sure how that other math worked to get one part but they are well i just i just added up the trees on each side so they've added some additional trees a lot of the things on the plant are shrubs to fill in between them i did not do the south side just because of the shrubs i mean there's that that south side the way that's landscaped is not unique to any any site that i've seen that belongs to right hennepin so i just like that's so off the wall i i didn't even i can't factor that in i was just looking at if you take the two most important sides to screen in corcoran and maple grove it's very obvious we they got one tree per 24 feet and maple grove's got one per nine and it should be noted the the from the fence to to the tree line you know there's like 50 feet i mean there's there's 50 60 feet i mean they've got they've got a lot of space around it now between the fence and the property line if you look at this there's 50 feet and yet i can't figure out an explanation as to why their architect went and put all those trees but again it without more density to cover the gap when you look at their renditions you can clearly see right through it oh yeah there's big spaces that go right to the to go right to the fence yeah and why is that because they have a single linear line of trees they don't have a second row to fill the gap they need twice as many trees to do that so i if they can double row those it's not a lack of the site's too small but it's just that our code doesn't for somehow for some reason and maybe this is something they can work out with staff maybe we don't need all those bushes maybe we should convert some of those into some more trees albeit maybe even smaller ones yeah i don't know i was thinking how critical is larkin compared to 116 from a visual i i don't know if that came up in the council meeting but i don't not really how um how tall is this structure did i read it's like 60 feet or how big how big is this going to be isn't it i thought i read that it's like 60 feet tall am i misreading something there's approximately six or eight holes there that are 60 feet tall okay oh okay so the majority of it is what i'll call kind of normal and then some of it goes 60. okay okay that that's helpful because here i'm i'm wondering why are we talking about this if this stuff is 60 feet high it's like spitting in the wind putting some bushes in front of it you know but but you're telling me the majority of it is like a like a one and a half story with just a couple of things sticking out okay all right kendra was raising her answer i didn't know if she was gonna answer one of your questions but then i have a comment too i can answer one of your questions okay just you asked why there's not a double double row on the west side where there's so where it looks like there's a lot of space between if you look at the landscape plan you can see the storm water pipe that runs through so we is that the dotted line with the arrows little arrows and so our engineers do not allow landscaping in that drainage easement can that be moved it really can can it be rerouted i think that's one of the difference between this site and the maple grove site i don't know that that was built with a storm water pond on site well there's a pond right next to it so my guess would be if they can if they can drain the site into but i don't know what kind of environmental concerns that would be but i you know i i tend to find a lot of our a lot of our drainage issues and our ponding to be quite curious as it relates to their abilities to um to do uh site planning because of this requirement so i just wanted to note that the distance between where the trees are shown in the fence is a clear zone per engineering now whether the council would want to allow landscaping on the city park property to accomplish that i don't know but i don't think there's room to do a lot more staggering than what they've got well i i did have a discussion uh with mrs sandberg about that i was quite surprised that to hear that the city would not allow them to do birming on that side because it would fall over into the the city space now i don't see what exactly is going to be used in that city space but i would think that any kind of you know if you're going to have a trail because that is kind of a downhill slope i would think it'd be more closer to the road but when is when is any kind of you know landscaping changes in in contour a bad thing whether it comes from right hennepin or a residential thing i mean i could see you know certainly we don't want it going halfway into the site but if we're talking a couple of feet and the difference is well yeah they can build a berm four feet tall and put these trees in or they can't build anything at all i i think i'd air i think i had air towards allowing them to to build a berm that would that would filter and be and be you know contoured into the future uh part because again when you look at when you look at maple grove there's a four to five six foot difference between where their trees are planted at ground level and where their their pad is for the station and you know if you're talking a four or five foot uh advantage when we're talking about trees originally being planted per our code they're only four to six feet tall [Music] mr chair who said that the city is not willing to do that it's in the code no no no i thought i thought you asked about it and someone said yeah the city can't do that well because it's in the code no the um staff can't approve that the council can the parks director did not think the parks commission was supportive of that idea but certainly the council could allow the applicant to burm and plant on city property it limits how the city can use its land in the future i think is why the park's coordinator did not said that the parks commission did not like that idea but the council certainly can the code would not prohibit someone from planting on our property if the boy scout wanted to do it we could let them for example so well yeah mr mr chair i would suggest making that recommendation to the city council i think that that was a creative solution and it should be brought to council and you know if if our code doesn't you know we may changes to the code all the time but if our code doesn't prevent that and if this commission thinks it's a good idea then which i do i i think that that that was a good idea then i do think that we should bring uh bring that recommendation to council it's it's their decision to make okay well i i mean listen if we're obviously i i don't know that we i mean we can make all that um i think ultimately where this ends up in is is further discussions um [Music] with uh between wright hennepin uh their architects and and the city staff and i i guess i uh essences are going to go before the city council next week some people are going to have you know city council could just simply say we'll allow it and especially if that's all that's needed to give them a little bit more space to do a double row problem with that is allowing for that open space isn't going to do any good unless you come up with some more trees right um so the folks at wright hennepin you know we're trying to kind of come to some you know as reasonable as possible solution if if the city council were to allow that what is is it a berm that you were describing would would you consider coughing up for some additional trees there yeah i think we're willing to work with the city and we communicated this to the chairman is that that's our preferred path right is work with the city to develop a landscaping plan that meets your expectations and criteria and we're definitely willing to work with staff work with this position to achieve that okay could i see just one more kind of question in your i was here last month for your presentation and in your presentation you stated that wright hennepin approached 10 property owners and that none of them were willing to sell and then at the city council meeting you brought up the same slide are you willing to give me the addresses and names of those 10 property owners i can answer that question okay uh i'm legal counsel for right hand i made those calls okay but i'm not at liberty to divulge the names or address of this phone number so is it your you were uh you went to saint thomas law right okay were you my student all right maybe we'll change that um is it your position then that when you make a representation in a public meeting that you don't have to share the details so that we can determine the candor of the application what's so secret about this well i think it's a business i don't care about the negotiations i just want to know the addresses at this point i'm not comfortable sharing that information and the reason is just because i think it's confidential okay based on what [Music] i know i'm on the lawyer's professional responsibility board so okay all right so it's your this is just confidential you're going to throw it out in a public meeting and then not disclose the details well as you know commissioner i cannot misrepresent any facts whether that's in a public forum or privately so i can all i can tell you is that i did make those calls but i'm not kind of in a position to divulge the details okay i just want to mention because i'm trying to actually help you on this okay but i just think that the optics of coming into a town and you know not being transparent doesn't help write hennepin's reputation okay just know that so may i share a few thoughts uh yes commercial drama um i am in agreement that just because of the particular location which i know um you know for the past number of years has been planned to just kind of be the city downtown area and with the idea of a linear walking path i just feel like something that will help soften the edges and screen more completely is desirable for all the residents i feel like it would do it would go a long way to um to just show an added effort you know to work with uh within the restrictions of the site some thoughts that i had that i'm throwing out there is regardless of what type of fence if we do a chain link if we do the complete solid wall is it possible to use climbers and creepers as a landscaping tool that go up the edges of whatever you know whatever it is that screens it to soften the edges that gives a lot of hanging green space it takes away from some of the like um the sharpness maybe of the barbed wire so i'm talking like it's flowers right like you've got clematis and morning glories and beans and peas if you wanted to but there are a lot of plants that could be planted right at the base of the perimeter i don't know how that impacts the other side of the wall if that would cause any kind of concern about overgrowth or what have you but maybe something that could be easily maintained but then would also look really pretty as you're walking up and down that walkway and then i was just going to speak to color if i could and that was whatever color you do there was like a small building that was going to be on there and then also the color consideration of um whatever type of material is used to screen um or not screen i would just try to steer away away from the grays i think it just considering the feeling kind of going into the scenario to do gray i think would be a really bad choice it kind of evokes a prison right or depressing um kind of emotion i think even subconsciously so i would go into your gray tones i would do your more natural tones um that would just be my recommendation to again soften some of the hard edges especially if you don't have barbed wire i would love i mean i think like a solid wall would be beautiful especially if you landscaped it well it could be a real architectural feature in that area so but again i know that there are some constraints around whether that's possible or not so i'll take whatever kind of screening we can get but those were just some added thoughts that i had okay thank you question who do we normally rely on for colors and i don't think you want to trust me with a color wheel yeah mr chair you know it's not something that we deal with a lot i asked my registered landscape architects their team proposed a beige i asked my registered landscape architect same i'm not the color person he recommended brown which is what i said in the staff report just because greens are usually a very unnatural green gray again is a well i mean brown for slats seems because that's what westside tire is proposing that tends to fade into the background particularly with the amount of vegetation proposed was his opinion okay all right but when you say brown there's like a whole gamut of browns right like it's not brown necessarily but like a brown tone you could do like a beige as a brown tone just warmer well i i just want to clarify we again join trying to move on yes uh if you got a color preference raise your hand and let the council know but i i don't know that i don't know that i want to spend a whole lot of time trying to do this i think if we just say slats color to be determined does that usually come from you the does it come from the applicant we usually work with our landscape architects and uh the city staff and then with their design team so okay we can certainly do that the res the the draft resolution that went to the council last week said exactly as you said color to be determined okay does anybody have a preference that they really want to impress upon the city council otherwise we'll let the color discussion go to the wayside i just have a question about the building though more about i know we have uh recommendations on i mean even even though we're going to talk about the northeast districts there's these recommendations and styles and different things is this does this need to comply with that or is it can it just be a structure with a metal roof and done or does it still need to comply with some of the architectural things it was facing the road and things like that that we have in [Music] our other recommendations well i mean they provided this yeah yeah yeah yeah but i'm looking at the stuff we look at for the northeast history southeast gentry we have a we have you can't just build a square building if it's facing a road it needs and we do this for the houses if they are facing a house they have to have extra architectural things sorry if they're facing a road they have to have other architectural dimensions to to make it look nicer i just don't know if we have requirements for this or can they just build a concrete block structure throw a metal roof on it and and call it a day or they still have to comply with some of those other there's other things that we are we've been talking about mr chair they do have to comply with the standards in the code the northeast excuse me the southeast district standards um are more for residential property so as we said last month we believe that this building does comply but that for the same reason you have discretion on the fence you have some discretion on the building itself but we believe it does comply with the standards in 1060 which does allow this type even in the southeast district because it's not a home it's an essential service so we won't have a record make a different topic then um yeah and so i'll just throw my voice in i like the idea i thought it seemed odd that we we had this dead space i guess that was our park space seems like that would be a great use for just the the concerns residents have brought up visually to have to use that public space to build that up and then have i think what we're suggesting is putting you're suggesting putting the trees on top of a berm and now at that point even if they're hopefully spaded but if they're not we're already we already got we're already starting somewhere well i i think because we have a lack of trees to cover the area adequately i think it ought to be mandatory that's that some of them or all of them at least up to the ones that were required we can even break it down to just the ones on the east side and the north side because those are the two sides that really we want to make sure that we don't miss the book the east side is important because something will eventually be built on the east side but that that property will have their own ability to do their own screening so i don't know that we need to keep that all up on agreement right hennepin i'd rather concentrate any effort that they're willing to go over and above on those areas that are most important to what's going to happen and where it's going to be most visible by the residents of the city and that would be the west side and the north side and again not to say that the south side isn't important but because of the the power lines that's why there's no trees there that's why they're mostly shrubs so there will be shrubs there but we're not gonna we're we're not talking 50 50 foot trees so ideally are you thinking that are you looking to get the same density as what they've done at it where is it maple uh maybe let's just say let's see if they can work to something that gets closer you know again this is very evident there's gaps right and and this is a rendition where the trees these are not newly planted trees this is 10 years in the future and it doesn't do the job like it does in maple grove so if if if we all look at maple grove and say god that you know that really is nice and that would work 10 15 years but how do we get there fast enough and how do we make sure that we get that kind of coverage it requires bigger trees and it requires a few more trees do they all have to be spaded no but so what whatever can be worked out and this will be probably a balance between the architect you know um there you know i don't know i mean i've done most of my trees in my property to the extent of about 80 of them have been spaded in because i wanted the instant you know i wanted this to they want to wait my whole life to see and i never had one die right but i do know that spacing is is is an issue so depending upon how much room they get depending upon how much space would might determine how many of those things can be spaded trees what species are better to be spaded and and and and to make up that difference we can just go with the standard six foots they'll get there eventually but at least in the in the interim there's something there it's better than nothing so um are you guys hey i'm sorry quick question um we were just talking about the density of the trees that maple grove are you guys willing to bring your plan up to the same density so i think where we're at is to that point is we've addressed the design we've had in place when above and beyond you're going to go right yep yep i get that so now we'll have to revisit it and look at what options we have we're totally in favor of working with the city and especially with addressing the birmingham on that west side working in the linear parkway doing a double standard tree trying to fill up those gaps um don't have an answer right because we're working through your right present time um so that'll have to be something we will work through the next week but but in good faith you'd be willing to at least visit that okay yeah and so i think right now tonight if we can come to a general consensus that we think that the the city council and and the staff should you know they're willing to do some spaded trees what percentage which ones i don't know they're willing to burn [Music] if if the city councils are willing to allow that berm to go on to the public space good if that gives them more room at least on the on the west side to double up trees then somebody we got to figure out where those trees come from you know and then they're willing to put up a nice decorative monument sign now where that goes i don't know i suppose maybe the best site might be on the south side but if it goes up on the [Music] you know in the corner over here by uh down here in the in the southwest corner that doesn't look like there's any trees you know maybe it's that sign for that's what it wants them to put up it just indicates that it is like a great head up and substation yeah oh okay yeah it's it's not like welcome to our substation playground no no on the public lands but but when i toured when i toured them all they all had and i thought that was a right hand sub station yeah okay i was impressed with it i thought that was really cool okay and then i was surprised that corcoran didn't have one so when i asked them if they'd be interested well we want our sign and they're willing to do that so there's some give and take but this is nothing we can't come up with specifics but if they're willing to in good faith you know again we'll give them the chain link fence they'll do the slats and they can work out the tree counts the tree size the berms and everything else that would be our recommendation then to the city council how many projects of this size have you had here in corcoran is this what i guess is this the first or second incarcerating direct okay yeah i'm just curious thank you let me ask you would the process had been easier if there was better communication between right hennepin the the landowner uh city council perhaps the planning commission do you think that for this specific application do you think that communication went well or do you think it was frustrating i'm i'm just curious for your feedback i don't know if i want to step into that but i'll be honest but aaron there's always improvements to be made right from a standpoint of process improvements how we work through this um getting opinions getting insight from council members from commissioners at the front end because we're at a point now we've designed a substation laid it all out set up based off of code based off of input from city staff making changes at the last minute you know we have to ask ourselves we have issues it's not just aesthetic we're really going to look at something just to say we have to address safety operations reliability those are the things that drive our decision making and so understanding what your expectations are what the console's activations are of course all that on the front end is going to be much more helpful as you craft and create something that when you get to the later stages is more just fine tuning yeah versus trying to make significant adjustments or address major concerns at the last minute which which in this sense you can't do right because it's designed already for a specific layout a specific uh perimeter structure um and so yes to answer your questions yes it would definitely be frustrating yeah of course it's frustrating for everyone involved and if we can avoid that going forward that's that's a benefit for everyone fair enough thank you okay any other questions mr sandberg okay thank you mr summer um uh councillor varenkamp yes do you think that we have provided enough input for the city council to go ahead and [Music] based upon based upon what staff will put together in a week to evaluate that for your next meeting or is there anything we maybe have left out you've satisfied me again i was brainstorming on something better something that looked good you've gone the other direction with larger trees the whole bunch i heard right hennepin say they're willing to do that and i hope that doesn't include a redesign i think we all can communicate better staff to council council especially the staff is some of the things that i've seen um that can be done a lot better but i think we've got a pretty good council now we've all talked about revisiting their ordinances and those kind of things and it really shaped this stuff again kind of the whole beginning of this being derailed with commissioner landerman's concerns originally as far as is are the ice dotted and t's crossed on representation of the property that could have been done better people should have known more that day so didn't drag out this far a lot of people not wanting this those kind of things um i think a lot of a lot of players in this just didn't want to communicate didn't want to do this those kind of things and uh i don't think any intent on the city side was the fame right hennepin or the current landowner the previous landowner however we're going to say that i just everything could have been done way better than this and then my last thing is i want to make sure wright hennepin and the city our staff has a plan moving forward for future substations if needed without using intimate domain i just i hate those two words i i can't say it loud enough um when i when i spoke about being neighborly corker neighbors and those kind of things if i'm online please tell me but buy the whole piece of property not just take five acres um and then you own it those kind of things i've said that the general public in the past we don't want to live next to more development we moved to the edge of town to live next to cornfields and stuff but i told that group buy the corn field and i'm sure we can find the farmer to do it same as this if right hennepin's going to do something like this instead of taking that i think things would have been better that piece property would be for sale there was a price on it get it get it done and then be part of the community help us develop a downtown help us put in a substation and i think it would have went a lot better a lot easier i'll stop at that okay so we thank you i think you've done everything you did the only the only thing we didn't address is that road access uh in my discussions it was already hitting it but they don't care yeah if it works out in the future that hey you're going to take you know off that ghost road let it be it's probably so far down the road we might even be on the commission and not that it doesn't matter but no one can guarantee that's going to happen they're comfortable doing either way so i don't think we need to make that an issue but i know that that was one of the mr chair i hope you appreciate again i'm i was the one that said i'd like to send it back to the planning commission to get this because we didn't get this influence yep thank you and we appreciated the opportunity so um good thank you um so is there anything that you think we haven't addressed or given clarity to before we move on to our next item no i think the message i'll just repeat it to make sure it's accurate that the planning commission's recommendation is that the wright hennepin work with the city council to consider a berm that straddles the city right hennepin property line in order to create a berm with a double row of plantings on that west side the site should have a chain link fence with slats the site should include a monument sign with landscaping and that the applicant should work to include larger trees some of which should be spaded if possible and again i would in all of that i would emphasize the west side the north side i mean again if there's going to be concessions let's concentrate on those sides that are most important and and to a lesser extent than the east side so a double row of trees on both the north and the west um to the cents you can fit them in there if if putting the berm in on the west side allows enough room for them to do that then let's work to that to that end and figure out how to get additional trees if you can't do that on the north side well then all we have is the bigger trees i mean so you know i i think again you know uh like varying camp we just want this thing to look as best as it can uh and given all of the concerns and and whatnot that the the residents had i think this is the best way we can address at least two of the most significant the sight and the sound so would that change to add uh the north that's accurate for the commission if if it can okay i'm hearing that west side is like right and again if you look at their maple grove site where did they put all their effort in their biggest trees they put them along maple grove or lawndale and to a lesser extent the but i suppose why would you have to concern yourself with the north side that much because it was a it was a fire station so it's not like you have residents over there who are going to complain about it yes sir i could i just wanted to say thank you to ms sweene i know it's not the outcome that you and your family want but i hope you know that this commission uh this commission at least looked at this issue very carefully for you okay thank you okay sir can i just ask a question on timing as we work through this is this uh i know usually staff you have a packet that goes out to council and is this going in front of the council next thursday yes i will be writing a packet at whatever time this meeting gets done tonight so that it can go out tomorrow morning in the council packet for next thursday the 14th so it will not be resolved but the recommendation will be forwarded to the council okay so we'll be able to work with you and then deliver it to the council friday yeah and i think honestly just frankly i think it probably makes sense because it's city land to look at conceptually what would it look like if the council approved it rather than fully redoing the plan set so that they can decide are they comfortable with that okay all right well thank you everybody um okay well that wasn't the half hour i thought it would be but um we've struggled through it all of us and and uh thank you everybody for your time all right uh let's move on to item 6b this is a public hearing uh this is for the west side tire variants sp and iup [Music] and so we will start with the staff report and that tv isn't going to work is it uh mr chair our interim city administrator uh it sounds like she spoke with i.t personnel as well and she's not there seems to be a power issue and it's not going to get resolved tonight so a power issue uh something seems to be a power issue she was trying to work within here while we were discussing uh get those guys from wright hennepin back in the breakers and she's not sure why the hdmi isn't working but um yeah it's not going to get resolved tonight is the bottom line and she apologizes and we're just going to make do with what we have so i'll be uh showing this on that screen if you guys can't see it in the back row you might want to move up you got it feel free to move the chairs as you see my head at this point you can kind of flip them around [Music] yes okay absolutely uh this is the west side tire site that we're talking about is the site on the south side of 75th west side tire actually operates on the north side of 1675th excuse me of 75th the piece that has the request for the site plan variance as an interim use permit is the southern property the original west side tire was approved in 1988 and has been a corcoran business since then growing over that time period at the 199.25 75th avenue site and when it was originally approved no outside storage was allowed that was part of that original resolution but over the years outside storage began to occur on the site and then eventually spread to the subject property at 50 70 fifth avenue and so the city and the applicant or the landowner have been working for a number of years to solve the code issues on both properties and through that effort the city council asked the applicant to apply for an ordinance amendment you saw that uh in march of last year or april february of last year and in march on march 11th of last year the city council approved an ordinance amendment that allows outside parking and outside storage as a principal use and establish conditions for them this was a request from westside tire and specifically drafted to address the issues on this site so the applicant's been working to get the plans done and is now submitting under those new standards so the request is approval of a site plan an interim use permit two interim use permits and two variances on one nine nine five zero seventy fifth that's the southern property the approvals would create a paved parking area on that parcel for employee parking and vehicles to be serviced it would create a gravel unloading area for heavy equipment it would create a screened outside storage area so that all outside storage could be enclosed and screened and in order to accomplish that they're requesting a variance from the 50-foot minimum front yard parking setback and a variance from the 32 foot maximum curb cut so i'm gonna quickly walk through all of those the full analysis is in the staff report but in light of the meeting agenda i'll be fairly brief so this is the site plan submitted by the applicant and again west side is on the north side of 75th this is on the south side this dark gray is the paved parking area this is the gravel vehicle unloading area which would be intended for heavy equipment i'm pointing in the upper right hand corner of the site and then in the back there's a fenced area and this pink line is the existing gravel area and that's important because the intent is to limit the impervious surface to what's not like today to avoid storm water permit requirements [Music] so the site plan originally for west side tire in the city files at least showed 33 parking stalls on that parcel this was in your packet this was the original approval with additions over the years the applicant's plan which was submitted indicates based on the city code formula that 54 parking stalls are required by the code for this business across both sites as i noted in the staff report i think we need a little more data to confirm the calculation we don't have a site plan that shows the square footages i want to make sure that they've deducted the 10 percent that our code allows in order to come up with that calculation it might be slightly less required under the code the current plan shows 20 parking stalls on the west side property which is up here and again i know it's impossible to read up there but this is in your packet and then 34 stalls on the south lot i noted in the staff report a couple things they do need to provide accessible parking stalls on the north lot per the code that number varies depending on the exact number of parking stalls with 54 stalls it does require three accessible handy ada accessible stalls the parking does not meet the 60 26 foot minimum dry vial requirements our code requires a 26 foot wide dry vial so that cars can pass both directions so these two parking stalls on the north side do not have space to provide that they would need to be removed and there's six stalls on the south side here that do not provide that 26 foot dry vial and would need to be removed alternatively to meet that you could pull the parking further south unfortunately what that would do is either shrink the storage area or require the storage area to be moved further south which the applicant has indicated that they don't want to do so the code does say subject to the review and processing of an interim use permit the city may reduce the number of required off-street parking spaces when the use can demonstrate documented a documented demand which is less than and required so i don't have that from the applicant i know they you've probably seen the site they do have a lot of parking on site they feel like they need these parking stalls but if they can't make it fit and comply with the code there is an option for the city to allow fewer parking stalls in this case based on what the plans show they need to eliminate eight parking stalls which would bring them down to 46 parking stalls and the city could approve that i suspect the applicant may have something to say about that because i know they feel like they need the 54 that they're showing so there's a couple of ways to address the issue there is no landscaping shown on the plans we just spent quite a bit of time talking about landscaping requirements um the code does historically require that mix of fence and landscaping they are proposing a seven foot tall chain link fence with slats we are recommending that the fence be added on the west side of the storage lot to enclose that storage area without enclosing the storage area it has a tendency to expand we also recommend that they shift the east fence which is shown kind of out in the access drive shift it east to the edge of the parking lot and then uh that gravel area there can be reclaimed made into turf and then that hard surface can be in that outside storage area which will expand that out to its storage area without trigging triggering the stormwater permit the code would require using the same perimeter measure we just talked about with wright hennepin would require 21 trees and 34 shrubs on this site um we would recommend that those lands that landscaping be added that's in the draft resolution we're suggesting that it be provided focused on the north east and west less screening on the south because there is existing vegetation on the south but the commission should talk about that similar discussion as our last agenda item the interim use for permit for parking and outside storage i'm not going to go through all of the conditions those are in your staff report but do note the couple of conditions that are not being met staff has included conditions in the draft resolution to try to address them including enclosing the entire outside storage area moving the fence to the edge of the parking lot which allows that outside storage area gravel to expand adding the landscaping re-labeling the area called temporary equipment storage as unloading zone only it's not for storage it's just to unload those heavy equipment requiring that all outside storage be removed from the west side tire site and store it in the fenced area that the 26 foot wide dry vials be provided and that the gravel areas be removed from the access easement on the east and restored variances there are two variances um the request for the 35-foot setback where 50 feet is required for parking in the i-1 district this was a big discussion last year and the council did vote to retain the 50-foot setback requirement it is staff's opinion as outlined in the staff report that the variant standards have not been met there is 76 feet between the fence and the south property line the 15-foot shift could be accommodated within that area um however obviously variant standards the council has our planning commission has discretion and we've provided some comments in our analysis if the council excuse me planning commission does find that they're met that you could use for your findings the second variance is a request for a 75-foot curb cut with 32 feet is the maximum allowed this is a public safety issue and city staff strongly recommends denial of this variance both the public safety department the public works department feel very strongly as i outlined in the staff report why this curb cut needs to be minimized a number of industrial users in the city have requested a larger curb cut and the city has not allowed a larger curb cut a standard semi can negotiate a 32 foot curb cut nelson trucking sells and repairs semi-tractor trailers they have a 32-foot curb cut requirement they did ask for larger and were not permitted that the applicant indicates that they have a wb 92 truck that occasionally makes deliveries that's a very rare vehicle to see on the road it does occur but it's not the regular delivery and so public safety has said they will allow unloading on the public street upon notification should that type of vehicle be required and so the site should be designed for a standard semi truck which can accommodate the 32 foot curb cut so staff does not recommend approval of that variance this probably would have been better if the it stuff was working but this was an image that was not in your packet i wanted to highlight this 15 foot driveway access there's a 30 foot wide access easement that provides access to this property to the south it's it's on this property and it's on the ebert property to the east so the 15-foot piece that's on this property should be restored to turf and kept clear of all encumbrances this is a access easement that exists today and should be removed but this pink area underneath it are orange we really are recommending that the fence be moved to the edge of the parking lot that will allow the area that's orange here to be made up as purple here which could then be gravel which would allow an expansion of the outside storage area to be fenced here without increasing the impervious surface area and re triggering the storm water rules so they wouldn't need to do a pond if they did that imagine these two parking styles would need to be removed these two and these four in order to meet the 26 foot wide drive aisle yeah dry vial requirement and then recommending landscaping around the perimeter of the site and re-labeling this area here as an unloading zone not a storage area this is a public hearing mr chair so we recommend that you open the public hearing and take public testimony the applicant and his engineer are here this evening staff does recommend approval of the resolution approving the site plan and interim use permit and denial of the resolution denying the setback variance and deny and a resolution denying the curb cut variants we acknowledge that variants of criteria are open to contribution consequently the planning commission could reasonably find otherwise or recommend conditions to and recommend conditions to mitigate the impact of any variants okay is that it yes great thank you this seems like a one of our more technical um ones that we've had in a long time all right at this point i'll open this up to uh the public hearing again for those in the audience that wish to speak on the topic please approach the podium state your name and address and and and would be glad to take your testimony and for those that are online natalie will give you the appropriate instructions members of the public online if you'd like to speak on this item if you are on a computer or mobile device you should be able to access the raise your hand function under the reactions menu or tab and if you are joining us by phone to on to raise your hand it is star 9. and mr chair no one was raising their hand at this time okay is there anybody in the audience that's here to speak right now the applicant and the owner are here um so if we have questions you'll make yourself available absolutely okay and you don't have a presentation you'd like to give at this point unless you have any specific questions i i know that they're most likely going to come up that's great okay thank you all right um at this point i'll take a motion to close the public hearing i'll make that motion second all right all those in favor say aye aye opposed this public hearing is now closed okay so let's move on to [Applause] [Music] the commission discussion and recommendation [Music] does anybody want to start yes i'll start so here i think this application has several issues that will prevent me from supporting complete approval essentially the applicant is looking to correct current code violations with new code violations i see that there are five parts to this but the site plan is uh is really informed by the other four parts so first the applicant is requesting an interim use permit for outdoor storage i see that the draft resolution says that the interim permit expires when one of the following occurs and i'm quoting a a violation of conditions under which the permit was issued and b the interim use permit allowing parking and outside storage as a principal use related to the business operations at 19925 75th avenue the sale of either the property at 19925 75th avenue or 19950 75th avenue to a different entity will terminate the iup however the city's code states that the interim or it states that interim uses are exactly that temporary and for a quote brief period a requirement for a for interim use is that there is a quote date or event that will terminate the use can be identified with certainty i'm referring to city code 1070.030 subdivision 3d the code also provides though like staff's report does that an iup can terminate in the event that conditions under which the iup are issued are violated i think though that this can be misused and that interim permits should not become the norm or allowed to masquerade as a conditional use permit that that issue aside ultimately i agree with staff that the request for an iup for outdoor storage does not comply with the code because of insufficient screening i think that the condition added for additional screening will carry this part of the request across the line though therefore i move to or i would move to approve the iup for outdoor storage subject to the condition that there is additional screening added now the second and third things though that west side tire is requesting is an iup for parking and a variance for the parking setback these two asks are really related though i think like staff notes that the request for a variance fails because among other things the applicant has not shown that there are conditions unique to the parcel that warrant a variance the snowmobile trail affects the neighboring property yet somehow they comply with the parking setback requirements i i therefore would move to deny approval of the iup for parking i would also move to deny granting a variance for the parking setbacks the last variance is for the curbing i see no reason that there is a practical difficulty for for west side when others comply and have the same infrequent tractor-trailer deliveries i am also concerned that this is inconsistent with others so i therefore would move to deny granting a variance for the curbing cut and just as a sidebar i do note that there is a typo in our city code 1070.20 on conditional uses sub 2 i j there is a line break where one should not be just wanted to point that out to staff thank you thank you commissioner uh so so let me just summarize you would recommend [Music] see we have three resolutions [Applause] so you would agree with um sorry approval of the resolution approving the site plan and in a room use permit or i don't think that's what i heard yeah so uh i would uh i would move to approve the iup for the outs outdoor storage subject to the condition that there is additional screening added and then pretty much everything else so you're recommending denial of the setback variance and denial of the curb cut variants correct so then on the resolution i i just want to make sure that i'm up to where you are so on the approving and interim use permit and site plan application from west side as it's written here what parts of this would you not recommend be included as part of that recommendation uh well again i think the easiest way to describe it is that uh i recommend approving just the iup routes out for out outdoor storage subject to the condition that additional screening is added i am recommending that everything else be denied okay may i ask a question you have the floor um so i know that the um setback variance for parking was noted as a public safety issue um and but the public safety comments just addressed the temporary parking of the larger vehicle on the street can you just fill me in i just don't i'm like i'm not sure what the public safety issue related to a setback variance is if i said that i apologize uh commissioner mr chair the public safety is concerned about the curb cut okay variance uh not the setback i apologize if i spoke the idea of minimizing curb cuts minimizes conflicts on a public street and that's the public safety concern about that larger curb cut people don't know where vehicles are coming onto the street okay but the public safety did not have a concern related to the setback correct okay but the setback the reason for the denial of the setback recommendation from staff is that others on the street have been able to comply with that and the intent behind the setback is to just maintain kind of a mono look as you look down the street am i that's what i gathered from the staff report and i just want to make sure i'm not missing something mr chair uh staff's reason for the denial is we don't believe the variance standards have been met okay or that setback variance thank you for answering uh yes only other comment i had and and was just related to the snowmobile trail and the idea that it could be pushed back and and trees removed in order to plant other trees and that seemed kind of a little bit ridiculous to me um so i just thought that if there is a way to just leave the snowmobile trail there and leave the trees alone um then i i think that it just felt like it's already there it was already a thing so that was one of my only other comments i'll chime in as other things come come up um but i know that's related then to maybe perhaps allowing the setback variance yeah that's because i had that noted too about the because you you should your staff had mentioned that the commission could find the snowmobile trail is a unique constraint so then if that stays then this that was one of the drivers to to deny the variance i think for the setback yeah you know snowmobiles trails are kind of a fluid thing oh very fluid every year it's like re-navigating to get through corcoran uh i'm a snowmobiler i've been riding around here for 27 years the here's here's the here's the thing i see coming in the future the parks and trail commission and this city in general has done nothing i mean we're going to be talking about the northeast district but is there any provisions for guaranteeing snowmobile trails into that district any more than there is to drive them into here mama g's and and the stanchion are going to soon be enveloped completely surrounded by development residential development and commercial development and everything else there will be no more destinations eventually uh in this city and and the use from what again this is a segment this isn't a whole entire trail system so if they decide that they're going to expand their yard because of some reason they can cancel out that trail there's no guarantee it'll be there and there's no guarantee that there will be any real significant traffic ever going through downtown in say 10 years because everything's going to be developed there will be nowhere to go you won't be able to get down here unless they you know make the trail right down the ditch you know you can you can always go right down the ditch the right away of the road but that's a place i don't like to ride personally for for you know for issues a lot of issues but um i just i i think trying to to to grant these times these types of variances as a hardship because you've got a a volunteer snowmobile trail on the property i i admit i commend their their willingness to keep it but i don't find that to be a compelling thing when it's not uh an adverse condition of the land in and of itself it's just a competing use for space that you currently don't use sure i just don't recommend that the city take down any trees in order to maintain the trail in its like location and i i think and i don't know specifically what they're talking about but if you move back out you might only be talking about taking out a couple trees you know i i mean i don't know for sure but um you know what's more important keeping the trees or keeping the snowmobile trail that's a decision for them yeah yeah so um mr sherlock do you have anything uh you have any questions you got no i just um i noticed when i went through it i started to label all the areas where they weren't in compliance and uh ran out of sticky notes like here i got some right here for you and i i do uh think highly of west side tire and their service to the community especially the police department um but i wish that this proposal would have arrived with um with fewer things in in non-fewer things in non-compliance i'd certainly feel a lot better it just seems like a lot of things um right now that are that are discussable um and you know you start talking about one and it has an effect on another and everything so i was sort of overwhelmed by the the the lack of completeness or or whatever in this packet but i would be in favor of of some sort of probably along with what commissioner lanternman suggested or what you suggested um as far as the um the overall um bringing into com well bringing into compliance also makes me think that um with with this many items where do you start you know i'm concerned that something that was agreed upon decades ago was allowed to go and perpetuate into the 2020s and and again i think we're dealing we've talked about this before we've had some agreements in this city that have gone on for decades and that have been sort of a wink and a nudge and then when it comes time uh to either bring that up to code or somebody else coming forward and saying well you did it for them you know and so uh but at this point i just i would like to consider consider emotion not make a motion about how to resolve this issue okay all right um i i had a couple questions just because i i couldn't figure it out and again i i just need to understand why on on sheet c201 um i so can can somebody explain to me what the proposed gravel payment pavement is and how is that different than bituminous what what what is that i would have you know the applicant's engineers here mr chair i think yeah could you help answer that yeah please absolutely uh any technical questions that's why i'm here can you for the record your name please uh the gravel you're talking about the entrance correct yeah so that area is for when west side brings in larger equipment larger tractor trailers that will speak here please check it if they bring in a larger tractor trailer let's say with a dozer on it their jacks are strong enough to lift that trailer up to maintain and work on that trailer itself right so but when they do that their jacks will end up bending the frame of the trailer itself with the weight of the bulldozer right so they got to take that dozer off and back it off the trailer and then work on the trailer itself so they back it down onto that gravel which wouldn't get marked up right if it's bituminous or asphalt like the parking lot out here the metal tracks of the dozer would mark up beat up era the metumus way around that is to put down gravel pavement the gravel pavement technical term if you will no different than the gravel grow like class 5 gravel okay all right i get that that's what's out there today okay all right does that help it does now um on on the next page c202 now because i am a customer of west side i get all my tire work done they're fantastic organizations um [Music] i was looking i was looking at this and i see this this material called existing gravel pavement right in front of all the service bays and i'm like i've been here way too many times to know that that's not gravel that would have showed up from the survey are you talking about on the north property i'm telling you on the north property okay yeah why is that a different color than me if you want to see the drawing i mean yeah see this right here so these are the service bays and then it's all the way back here that would be existing concrete i believe and this is existing gravel pavement maybe we have a typo maybe that's i forgive me that could be a table um unless we don't have existing well here's the thing when you look at it from google earth you can see there's an outline here that matches this and so i don't know if it's you have concrete right outside your surface space correct concrete it's not gravel then yeah that could you're talking in front of the building that is all concrete yeah right here that's all concrete yeah okay and then back here that's all this is all okay there's concrete here but this is concrete here you have the lower back door so that's all kind of cool okay okay thank you um all right they okay i just was i couldn't i couldn't match the description with what i i reckon you know what i remember there um now in the in the north property the the street number 19925 the the shop and all that um more towards the west end when you look at google earth there's there's a long building that comes out here now i see that it it's not showing up on this plan i know that there's been discussions in the staff report about the square footage which goes to the issue of how many parking spots so could somebody tell me what is i what is that that i see because i never go around this side of the building i i go i park here i go in the office and they take care of my stuff and you know it's done but i never go around so i don't know what is that building that shoots out those are trailers so they're trailers it's not a and they're building the process of being motivated every day