you you good evening everyone it is 5:30 and I will call our work session to order just for everyone's information our work sessions as we get straight to our work and this evening the first item on the agenda is the short-term rental and presenting as Christopher for slen welcome happy winter good evening madam Erika and councilmembers tonight we're looking at our second year review of the short-term rental ordinance at like I think everybody in here can recall we went through a long governance process on this and adopted interim ordinance in December of 2017 it's hard to believe it's been two years already on this we've a lot of the driving factor on this was the upcoming Super Bowl that was occurring in Minneapolis and we wanted to give homeowners the opportunity to capitalize on that since that time well just a overview of what we're talking about here for those who may not hear it on recording here is referring to a vacation rentals people let their house out for less than 30 days essentially what amounts to at that time council directed staff to develop an ordinance and which we did and provided any interested homeowners with a set of best management practices we wanted to make sure that they were understood the expectations that we had as a city for running a safe a viable business for them you know last last year last time we reviewed this we didn't have any applicants for the permits and I'm happy to report we've have three now since last year so we did have some permits that were issued we've had no issues we've had zero complaints during this time frame and just a reminder I think we have you know by my best guess from looking on the site's about 10 to 20 active vacation rental homes within the city that's that's what I'm estimate somewhere still listed at as at Superbowl prices so I don't believe they're probably viable anymore and for perspective on that we got about twenty five thousand households within the city I suppose staff's looking for recommendations I'm moving forward to either allow the ordinance to expire and consider them illegal you know much like we were before or continue as is and make permanent or let it expire and mix modifications members of the council your thoughts anyone else agreed yeah I think so leave it as is and make it permanent because then we understand and our residents also because we need to live in harmony with one another and they know that there's an ordinance in place because there have been some problems in other cities but if our residents and the neighbors around if they know that there's an ordinance in place don't feel comfortable that we're thinking about everyone and being respectful so yes Jenny madam a are with that consensus we will put it on for your next council meeting on consent that'll be grace it's an interim that expires at the end of the year so we'll want to get a permanent so on the 17 correct okay very good so we'll move on from there thank you very much it'll be next Tuesday for the next Tuesday the 17th thank you okay very good thank you and so now we have the draft development tools policy discussion and I'd like the members of the EDC to come to the table if you if we can get you all around the table then you're here Wells's yeah here's what I'm going to do at this time is to have all of us go around the room and introduce ourselves so that our viewing audience will know who's around the table they know us since we have our work sessions all the time but we'll go around the table will show a journey this time I'm Jenny Falconer Community Development Director okay Jason are zolda fellers skip mean how ii like the development coordinator Melanie Lee's city manager Vince workman City Council Cara shot the City Council elizabeth coughs mayor which I'll call and say Claire yang Gustafson City Council damn Keely City Council thank you now we skip you'd like to tee this up and Jason you're presenting thank you madam mayor last month we had a joint a DC city council work session to review our developmental tools policy you gave direction that you'd like to have a draft update using the draft that Roseville has as a guideline and incorporating our economic development strategic plan and that is exactly what is before you tonight and Jason will walk you through some of the components of that plan introduce yourself so everybody knows thank you see we know everybody but the people watching don't know okay okay skip please good evening mayor members of the council so I have a skip mentioned a presentation years outlining the components of the policy this is just the high level of I wanted to get through tonight first just recapping where we've been and the process to date to get us to this actual policy second talking about the actual policy structure and the content within that talk about those individual sections so we'll go through those areas that we've modified here specific to the things that you wanted to see as a community and then finally talk about some of the next steps associated with Jason because the policy is really large I think it's seven pages what I'm going to ask the council if you can make notes of the areas that you will have comments or and also the Commission or questions so we'll have Jason go through his whole presentation and then we'll come back and address the issues through go through page through page so that there's continuity in in your report and because it is long and lengthy policy I've tried to simplify it here as best as we can but we can again that's good I think to spend the time at the end to go through the changes so just to recap where we've been is that we have this policy it's something that is required that you have by statute the statute if you're gonna offer a business subsidy require that you have certain minimum things within a policy so that's really kind of the starting point for why we're doing this but also here because you've spent so much time thinking about the things that you want to do with your tools as a group you have also here in this policy things that are required over and above what statute might require and we generally recommend that because we think it's just a good way for these reasons that we've listed here is that it it helps you know give a clearer picture of the kind of projects you want to assist that helps the staff bring projects to you that you want to see it also signals to the development community you know the things that you're interested in providing assistance for so that when there considering projects are trying to meet your needs and the things that you want to see is a community so just to recap back in 2018 as you recall we worked through a planning strategic planning process for economic development that resulted in your plan document and then from that we talked a little bit about the tools that are available to implement some of the elements within that plan we dealt them specifically into policies that would govern the use of those tools and as Kip mentioned we reviewed some ideas around that at the last work session that we were at and then and then finally what we did then is took that collective feedback that we received from you drawing heavily upon that your Dziedzic planning exercise to populate a policy that's specific to Burnsville and that's the draft that's before you tonight so in that draft as you mentioned it is fairly lengthy there are seven sections this is a high-level overview of those sections the first section just deals with the purpose and authority the plan we talked about a little bit of that tonight section two is your objectives that you hope to achieve through the use of public financing so again the specific things that you want to accomplish as a community if you're going to use your tools that are out there section three public financing principles I think of these as sort of the best practices associated with using those tools so it really just lays those out in terms of what those are and then section four is those projects that actually qualify for assistance and it's broken up into two parts there's minimum qualification so minimum standards at all projects requesting the use of your tools need to meet and then desired qualifications and those are the things that you're expressing to the development community into your staff that you would like to see within projects in the community and so that's where we've got a lot of flexibility to start implementing a lot of those recommendations that came out of your planning process and the subsequent discussions section five again public purpose the job and wage requirement this section is required by statute and that's primarily why it's there so you adhere to the statutory requirements of of what the policy needs to contain section six deals with these business the agreements these are the agreements that you enter into with ultimately somebody that would be receiving or using your tools and then finally the evaluation process so with that I'll just go through section by section if you have questions certainly feel free to stop me okay so first section purpose and authority so again we're talking about establishing the criteria for granting business subsidies are using your tools we're saying that this is going to be applicable to both the city and the EDA as a policy that would be considered by both entities again we're intending to comply with state statute we are suggesting that you know if a if using your tools and the form of assistance isn't technically defined as a business subsidy by statute we're saying that it still probably makes sense to apply these principles to that assistance even though it might not rise to the statutory definition of a subsidy and there's some examples for that and then excuse me then that the policies intended to provide flexibility that so that you can deviate and/or amend the policy so we've tried to be as prescriptive as possible in the policy but recognizing that almost a second you do that you have a project that comes before you that may warrant some flexibility or exception from the policy and so we've tried to build flexibility and as we've gone along okay so Jason and I said that we would wait till the end but I heard you say that you want us to ask questions as you go along you certainly can but whichever you if if that's what you prefer I was just trying to make sure that you could get through your presentation but if you prefer that we ask questions as you go along we can do that as well mayor I think your proposed strategy of going right through it is just fine I just didn't want to preclude anybody from stopping me if they had a clarification or something along the way okay section two so there are nine objectives identified and they're listed here so just briefly you know these are general objectives that you hope to achieve through the use of your tools as a community and they're high-level they're not intended to be overly prescriptive again to provide that flexibility so you can think of a lot of the projects feeding into one of these buckets but you know we're moving blight encouraging redevelopment expanding and diversifying the tax base enhancing the city's position as a regional destination so that's something that we had a lot of conversation about through the strategic planning process that was something that was important I think both to the Commission and to the council that this idea that you build on that already strong position as a community encouraging private spin-off investment offsetting redevelopment costs so if there are costs burdening a project that can't be overcome that you'd use it to offset that develop sites that wouldn't be developed without assistance retaining jobs increasing the number and diversity and the quality of jobs kind of one big bucket about jobs and then providing opportunities for small businesses and entrepreneurs and promoting resident economic stability so we had a lot of conversation about the desire to promote entrepreneurialship within the community and so trying to build that in here as well within one of the objectives that you're trying to achieve and then just meeting any other kind of city goals whether it be design energy reducing the cost of government those sorts of things would be another objective section 3 getting into these principles so again just a reminder these are the list of things that we view to be best sort of best practices associated with the use of your tools and their you know applicable in almost all of these policies it look a lot similar to the ones that you saw for the Roseville policy but briefly here we've started off with generally not using your tools to assist a retail development unless it meets a desired qualification or the policy so that's a carve out that you're gonna see in here because we do have the notion that we might consider retail within a certain context not providing assistance to provide its competitive advantage for a particular business you wouldn't just provide assistance just to do that and that you would provide priority for an unmet need in the community so if you've got a something that comes forward and it doesn't exist in the community today that that might be a reason why you'd think about providing assistance not using your tools to support a project that's going to pay more for land than it's worth so we will often see at people asking for assistance but they've got an agreement to buy a piece of property for twice what it might be worth on the market then then the taxpayers are subsidizing overpayment of land to a private entity and so we don't think that's a good idea you're having developers pay for your third-party fees so when they come asking you to use your tools they're putting up a deposit to make sure that you're covered for your cost of providing analysis and any legal or third-party input that you need in order to evaluate that request the idea that you might wave city fees or offer sack credits that you're gonna minimize the use of city assistance you want to find other funds first you want to maximize private funding you want to make sure that they're finding all the grants that might be available for their project to my second page but backing up here so I started here let me just I started reading down my list and not the one that was up in front of you I started reading the second the second the second list and then this idea about music using minimum assessment agreement so it's sometimes when you a project you're using tax increment we want them to guarantee a particular value so that you're sure that you're getting what you anticipated out of the project so that's the second half of those I'm gonna back up and don't do the first half that they intended to do so the site there's this idea that you're gonna review every project that comes before you so if somebody's asking you to use your tools they should submit an application there should be a review that's associated with that one of the things that we've talked about specific to the Burnsville policy and this is an an ad is that the staff is committing to deliver to the council EDA and other policymakers along the way memorandum outlining very specifically what the request for assistance was what the evaluation process was that it went through to determine what was necessary and what the outcome of that was so that you have that to be able to communicate to your constituents exactly why you're providing assistance and why the amount that's being requested is either justified or not justified so that's a step that's been added in here this idea of including checks and balances within your agreements so ensuring that your acquiring them proving up costs at the end of the day considering the use of look-back provisions to make sure that what we thought was gonna happen actually what it happened and then to the extent that there's that there's any difference and there might have been a lower need for assistance that we can make that adjustment on the back end so just using practices like that Lorene City risk when using Tiffany Bateman I think we heard loud and clear on our past discussion that there wasn't this desire to be using debt as an instrument to promote economic development so when using TIF and tax abatement and those sorts of tools that things are done on a pay-as-you-go basis and not financed upfront with city debt so that's included within the policy and then there's another issue that I think will require some some discussion but we can wait till the end for that is this idea that we're not going to use your tools to support speculative development and we had some conversation around this when I was here last that we thought well there might be some circumstances where we maybe want to do that one of them that we talked about was this idea that if you've got a large multi parcel redevelopment project that may be you know part of that might include a speculative building and that might be okay which which it is and so it's just something to discuss and then I understand there are some other projects that might be lurking out there that might also work against this strict prohibition against specula development so we can talk about that at the end and then so section 4 so this is a section divided up into the projects that will qualify for assistance so we've got the first piece which is minimum qualifications and then the second piece which is desired so these are the these are the minimum qualifications so there's this idea that you have to meet at least one of your objectives for public financing in this in the second section so remember that was just that list of objectives that you're trying to achieve to promote with your with your tools one of those needs to be met we need to have a demonstrated financial need we've talked about that we've talked about on the policy how we're gonna actually do that we need this to be consistent with the city plans which it either will is consistent today or be through you know the city approval process we talked about including this idea that you that the projects that come before you for use of your tools have better or best architectural standards which are terms that are as I understand used within your existing ordinance and so we want to see projects that are achieving those those goals we need developers to be forthcoming with all the information that's necessary to make an evaluation we want to see that there are guarantees for completion we need to see that people apply and have adequate capacity to undertake and complete the projects that they want assistance for and we want to make sure that the developer will continue to see through the project up until it's operating successfully at a minimum and ideally longer than that through our agreements and then the second set desired qualification so here is where we've got a list of I would call them more City specific items things that we had conversations about who's your planning process things that we've gleaned from our conversations subsequent to that but those things are listed here so one of those is you know high ratio of private to public investment so we want to see again maximize all the private sources that are out there priority to projects that significantly increase taxes so increasing the tax base in within the community was something that we spent a lot of time talking about and a goal that you'd like to achieve implementing the city vision or redevelopment goal so if you think about that those are you know if it's something that you know heart of the city for example if it's a project that is within there is really helping to take that from you know where it is to where you'd like it to be then that's something that would be a desired qualification not not just that project could be any other project today or one that might come forward into the future again designed to provide that flexibility attracting significant employers you know providing high quality high wage jobs so again trying to push the bar on wages within the community and incomes within the community promote housing that meets city goals so here we have this idea of increasing housing choice and diversity so adding other choices to the housing stock that don't currently exist we talked a lot about this idea of attracting young professionals and families to the community and so that was something that is added in here as a desired qualification so if we have projects that are helping to accomplish that objective then that would be looked upon as a desired qualification providing quality affordable housing incorporating housing into special city projects again for an example heart of the city any other project that you that you have that's out there creating higher amenity and luxury housing options is something that's listed on there as well jumping ahead still working through these desired qualifications so this next one a tract destination oriented uses so the list there recreation entertainment and shopping so again that's counter to this idea that we're not going to assist a retail but again we've carved out this notion that if it's a project that you like and it's you feel as furthering the goal of making Burnsville and cementing its position as a destination oriented area then it's something that you would desire even if it does contain retail for example providing opportunities for small businesses and entrepreneurs again one of those ideas that we talked about as something that you desire again resident economic stability redevelopment of contaminated or blighted area and then preserving or stabilizing a major commercial node another example where you might be sort of at least in some way assisting retail development but you're doing it in furtherance of sustaining your career node that might be there and then adding public infrastructure or roads or structured parking which is just one that we see often if it a project can help meet one of your infrastructure needs that can be a desired thing and a desired outcome for the use your tools okay so section five so recall this is really the record the piece within the policy that is helping you meet the statutory requirements that are laid out in state statute and they're not very many they're not overly prescriptive about the things that you need to include in your policy but there are a few things that they do say that you need to have in there so we need to have a public purpose with a measurable benefit so that's listed in there job retention can be a purpose if it can be documented so generally speaking just by itself you know that that's it's not generally is one of the only things that's like to be seen within the statute but it can be if you can document it again creation of tax base in and of itself generally shouldn't be the sole purpose for providing a subsidy and then what it what the what the statute requires is that you set a minimum number of jobs and a wage floor for those jobs now what we talked about was that you must create at least two full-time equivalent jobs if it's defined as a business subsidy and the idea would be that the number would be higher than that but if remember the idea behind his policies that it's designed to be flexible and were required to set an absolute number and so too was chosen as a way to promote flexibility I think with direction and the feedback that we've gotten if a project comes forward that's a job producing project and that's the goal of the subsidy I think the staffs direction and understanding is that you should work to achieve a higher number than that but for a floor we've got to in the policy and then the wage floor we talked about that and I've got a little data about that two-hundred percent of the state minimum wage is what's included in the policy is a wage floor so the idea there again is that you're meeting the statutory requirement of dis finding what the wage floor is going to be you're indexing it to a moving target rather than a fixed number which helps give the policy life over time so that doesn't get sort of outdated that way and then finally it says in here that you do have the option of setting the job and wage goals at zero after holding a public hearing so that's always an option that's available to you but it does require that you hold a public hearing and then identify what those other public benefits are than that so just for a little perspective here on the numbers he's pulled off is the actual what is it what is it - hon percent of state minimum wage translate to four actual wages so in the top is 2019 and right now to two percent were talking about sixteen dollars an hour for small businesses in 1972 for large businesses and because the state minimum wage is increasing over time in 2020 that jumps to sixteen dollars and thirty cents and 20 dollars an hour for large businesses and then of the bottom there just how does the state define a large and a small employer large is defined by revenue greater than five hundred thousand dollars small defined by a gross revenue less than five hundred thousand dollars so that's what that would mean there's a you know 50% wealthy 150 percent on a lower end and then a three hundred percent example just to give you an idea about what that might translate to if you wanted to consider a different percentage of the minimum wage okay section 6 so section 6 just deals with this idea that when you grant a business subsidy or use your tools in a way that the statute defines as a business subsidy you need to have an official and signed agreement with the entity receiving the assistance so this is really just basic it just says that when you when you use this you will enter into an agreement that agreement will include what the job and wage goals are it's going to include a commitment by the recipient to provide you the necessary reporting data and then there's gonna have to include a measures for recourse in the event they fail to meet the goals that were set out fairly straightforward these can be incorporated into larger development agreements that might deal with other financing pieces that might go into a project but generally that needs to be a minimum that's included to meet the statutory requirement so you as a city and a council will have will be required as these we're talking about approving a policy generally speaking but then each individual project that's considered a business subsidy and even those that aren't that are have an agreement are gonna come before you and need to be approved as well so you prove the policy but you have to still approve each individual business subsidy as well and again the policy again built for flexibility in case you need to deviate from those requirements okay so section 7 evaluation again pretty straightforward we've talked a little bit about this but the first step here is that you know when a project comes forward and the staff takes it in generally is the first point of contact they're gonna determine is it consistent with the city's goals and objectives as they've been defined within this plan we're going to ensure that that project meets the minimum qualifications identified in the policy find out which of the desired qualifications have been met by the policy verify that there's a financial need there and that the project needs about four tests and then only those projects that deem consistent with those elements are going to be brought forward to the council for consideration so by the time it gets to you for at least an initial look there will have been this process consistent with this policy to make sure that it at least passes that minimum test and that just in that's just a minimum of course obviously there can be a more rigorous debate about what gets included and and how that project looks beyond that but that's step one and then from there you know the conversation with the council will be had so that's it for the policy in terms of next steps our thought here was that we would listen to feedback from you all and then take that and back and revise this policy with your direction then in order to approve this statute requires that you actually hold a public hearing and then approve the policy so we'd come back at a future date when there's sufficient time to provide notice for a public hearing approve the the final policy and then that would be in effect then for all of your future projects I'm going forward basis so with that I'll stop and then certainly happy to listen to feedback and take notes about changes that you might like to see it thank you Jason and staff I also like what you have done with regard to the application form and that's in our background looking at the application form really gives us a whole lot of information that allows staff to then determine whether they should then proceed to evaluate whether they meet the policy for for tax increment financing members of the council any questions I do but I don't know you have questions that you would like to ask Vince why don't you proceed and in the policy and then the page number so that section three I'd like to just spend a little bit more time on the know retail but okay retail section of that it seems let's so how is it public financing principles is that where you are what you have the page in front of you so that we always know what we're all talking about page for number eight okay why don't you don't why don't we start with that well generally not used to support retail development but then we go on to say that we're okay with development to be flexible so it just seems like that moratorium of retail it doesn't seem like that makes sense to even be there if we're generally going to be flexible to it why even take it off the table this is page four and number eight eight eight public financing assistance and maybe maybe let's talk about when I read that it seemed to me when I'm looking at the development plan for the center village and the corridor the forty two corridor is why you have that there because there should there will be some integrated bill things integrated mixed use and that's how I read that because that's what we have talked about that's what's been approved in the center village in County Road 42 corridor so that for me was consistent and I checkmark that that was okay so help us understand your your concern about that if you're looking back at what we've already approved I guess I'm with him I think the city may consider projects that include retail components provided they meet desired qualifications identify note sections it seems to me that we've already laid out minimal qualifications that would automatically preclude maybe some retail whether it's wages other things so this is sort of a double whatever you call it I'm it it's an unnecessary step I agree with with councilmember workman it's like stating something that is already given based on all the other qualification so it really doesn't need to be stated if somebody brought a project forward and it had a retail component the jobs the hourly wages all those things would have to be met and that's not typical 20 dollars an hour is not typical in retail some employees I mean unless you're at Costco yeah so if so it seems to be like there's already qualifications and qualifications mm-hmm that everybody has to meet to get access to this including retail so why carve out retail and then turn around say but if you recall kgs you can be back in okay I agree I resent Jason and Jenny and skip yes please um just for a little historical bathroom at America traditionally we have not given its assistance to us great standalone retail yeah as a matter of fact the only one that I am aware of is Red Lion liquor in heart of the city and there were some extenuating circumstances there they kind of got caught in the scene when they wanted to do their redevelopment and I'm doing a much bigger building most of the other retail components are part of a mixed-use building but in the heart of the city was a special district so that's a that's the difference in that TIF district it with with Red Lion but I I would I would agree with both council memory I mean it would be hard for a straight retail component to meet some of the other objectives yeah and and I was just looking at what our what we had done with retail in the past and what we are approving for the future with the shopping center and so I see both sides and so what you're saying then Vince and Dan okay just Carib what do you think yeah I think I I think you just set your standards on anything and then you don't say yes even if you you know I think I get exactly what they're what they're saying that if you set objective standards people either meet it or they don't and it doesn't matter what industry they work in okay so just skip the industry designation and go by your objective criteria so my concern is standalone retail that come in and but they have to meet the they have to meet the other qualifications which is how many employees they're going to have and also the wage peace they'd have to be a fairly significant retail operation and store like a Costco like it and in if there was another major retailer of that size that wanted to come into town why would we say well I'm sorry your retail you don't qualify for this even though they might be a piece of land that we would love to develop but we're saying oh well I think the qualifications would either qualify them or disqualify them and so it's really only larger retail chains that can make those other qualifications dan okay so I have two Dan case so Dan Jeannie and Dan couple of coats okay I'd also offer up that retail there's parts of retail that are blight and would benefit from some sort economic development okay categorically say don't do it I'd say well at least let's consider it yeah yeah and we're I there are pieces in here that looks at that mixed-use within that allows for that in a shopping center area with housing and okay Dan gee I don't think the retail piece needs to be in there it's if you meet the criteria you meet the criteria and you move from there I I don't see unless it's a large one I don't see a a single store coming in here for build a small little retail building then on its own Eric I'll just gonna say even though I like a retail qualifies it's still two cities discretion to you know to go with giving them financing so I think you still have that leverage as well okay L your thoughts I was if it's a you know you might have a small retailer that has higher wages because they the type of business they're in and could meet the criteria so why push them out okay so staff eliminate a will do okay you have anything else one other and I apologize I should have maybe reference the specific number but I'll read what I wrote no benefit to I thought you said is we still on page still well I'll find out in a second here when I tell you which one no benefit to one and I thought you said one single company or entity as a result of TIF did I hear that you have not provided a competitive advantage yeah yeah is that relevant to a single and the read the the path I was going down on that is you know with the Burnsville Center shopping area we've heard a lot about Sara Tosh waiting for TIFF and then they're gonna do what they do based on TIF and so when I heard that I kind of coupled those two together so is that in the same conversation which number is that so when if we go to nine look at the one right below number nine okay financing will not be used in a project that would give a significant competitive financial advantage okay so it's very ties in that category members of council I guess I this provision generally is there for you know when you're trying to provide assistance for two very similar or you know there are two or three or four very similar types of that keep like a gas station for example you know and this idea that you're not gonna just finance gas station a over here you know for the sake of just some financing that project which could then come at the expense of gas stations B C and D so it's trying to compare I think apples to apples you know in that case you know would you be providing a significant pettite of advantage for other similar projects in the community I guess I don't know the answer to that specifically but yes and you wouldn't until an application came but if let's just use the ball as an example and say Sarah Tosh got tiff but CBL didn't or the rest then does that create a significant advantage to one of the tenants now I'm gonna go to Jenna district Jenny madam mayor members of the council so first of all we learned TIF has a lot of minimum requirements that's right so the properties have to meet that and we have not established that yet but we'll get through that but we have a lot of capital expenses infrastructure expenses that if can use to be the public side of it so I think maybe you're assuming that you're gonna give all this back to the developer no that has yet to be determined because there's so much in public investment when they say they're waiting for TIFF they are waiting for the city to step up in a partnership role to provide some more public amenities out there like the road that we talked about going through perhaps there's a parking structure who knows there's lots of other things but and TIF can only be used for certain things yes so it cannot be used to build the building for instance so if there are eligible costs that it has to meet as well maybe they have some soil conditions that we don't know about that would be extreme something like that so it's it's not that they're waiting for us to get TIF they are waiting for us to have tools to come to the table that moves us up further on their priority list and that's the piece that I think we all need to be thinking about because when you go through what are the items that qualify for TIF building the building is not it helps us to build the infrastructure it reduces their cost on infrastructure because that'll be part of how TIF is going to be used so and what we've done and and this is about market driven things is not give somebody a competitive advantage over someone else so I'm ok with that because actually it is about the they're wanting to understand what we're going to do with building the roads around they're not how they're going to be building what's inside when does clarify I wasn't asking to strike it I just needed a little bit of additional information on that piece because I that probably is likely the next TIF application we'll see is in that area which is why most of my thoughts have kind of focused on that and then this will be my last one and it's so heavily r9 the way that's fine yeah I understand how that yeah plays into this speculative development it's kind of a gray area because again I'm going back to Senator village plan is speculative but I think you address that through your presentation that yeah so mayor members the council we you know so we had a conversation about this last time and I think we understood the circumstances that you wanted to try to avoid getting tripped up on with respect to speculative buildings we didn't want to hinder the idea that you could do redevelopment or that a larger project might contain a component so we tried to have a carve out for that which is what's in here so I think we cover that part of it but I you know subsequent conversations here with skip I know that there are a couple of buildings for example proposed in the mrq area that are large industrial buildings that do not currently have a tenant attached to them they're just being marketed as I understand it those are something you may want to see happen in the community but they might come forward as speculative so then we said well geez right now the way this is written we would we would be that would really run against what the policy says because it would be probably on their own parcel right not part of a larger redevelopment area kind of a single building if we sort of read the letter of the policy here we might conclude that that's speculative we shouldn't assist it but that was my example I know a lot of times once we approve the policy content or eight the PX project that comes on totally that you want right doesn't conform and that's why you can always you know for a particular project waive requirements of your policy that's perfectly fine that's not ideal because you know someone that hasn't had the benefit of this whole process that you've gone through all they may see is the fact that you're waiving your requirements to give assistance and that maybe doesn't look great you know in an if only viewed in that narrow context so my thought our thought was that if if that's something you want to be able to do in the future then maybe that's something we want to talk about changing the language around that well one of the things that we've always talked about in the past when you have a spec building it's on them it it's the developer and the owner of the building that needs to fill it and what we're going to be well take for instance John Allen's building the only thing that tip is you know where there is the wall and also the drainage but everything else they're going to be paying for mhm now we have a product that is going to have a tax base that gets to the point of our are we growing the tax base from my perspective we're growing the tax base and they're responsible for filling the building because there's another part here that I like that you put in it with regard to how long they hung along to that so is the and I again I'm not arguing with it I'm just trying to get closure on some of this so the the essence or the intention of the spec building would be to potentially prevent vacancy vacant buildings from benefiting from tip or is that when they're going to be building it from my perspective the owner of the building in that development is going to want to sell it very quickly because they've got a mortgage or alone that they have to pay that's not coming out of TIF okay let's get a quick madam mayor this came up last month in our discussion yeah and there was some concern about giving assistance to aspect that was because of Roseville said well I also think there may be there may have been a slight disconnect when you look through the history of what we've done with assistance we've actually not had a problem with spec bill that's right what we did have a problem with was TIF 8 in which we agreed to not certify the district and not start the clock ticking until the developer found an end-user they were not capable of finding that end user so we've now told the developer that we're not gonna certify to fate they're gonna need to come back that that issue was really not because it was a spec building it was because we basically agreed to not move forward until they found the one tenant that that they want it so there's a little bit of a different edge there we've we've really as you've stated we've not had problems in the past because the building gets built you're paying the taxes based on that building as a developer you need to fill it yeah otherwise you don't stay a developer very long yeah l well and I would want not want to scare people away by putting too much of a restriction in here and the second thing is in the application if you look at that there's yeah all kinds of things that have tried listed and provided and if you look at somebody and they have a poor history yeah probably not going to approve the tip exactly the their history of doing previous projects is gonna really give you a guide as to whether you issue a different okay Vince are you okay yep that's all I have that's already had Cara do you have any mayor just for direction yeah are we leaving in number seven or taking it out and I would tell you that the project with the two hundred seventeen thousand twelve foot buildings would not get TIF with this item in there because they're speculative buildings no we want to support spec building you will take number seven oh yeah thank you are you guys okay with that I heard that everybody that we're okay with spec nice I mean the developer is going to want to fill it up or they're not going to be paying their mortgage and the application is going to tell us as L points out because it's in the application can they afford to do this and there's another provision in this and I'll get to that because that's one of the things is that they're going to have to stabilize the property the development we will remove yeah when we do a spec building like that is our goal then just to expand the tax base and we're not concerned about the jobs that come with it or anything like that anymore no that would still have to that'll still have to agree when they fill it it'll have they've had a little amount of jobs okay I'm just thinking as I lease buildings out I can't tell you the tenant that's coming at me when I build a building or I'm working on a building I don't know I know what's gonna come is gonna come and that's cool yeah the last created councilmember TIF nine that's exactly what it is in the agreement a certain amount of jobs at a certain we asked the developer what it what it you know when you look at your building what's the minimum that's gonna end up in there and that's what went into their contract I just want to understand how that we're we're having in this direction in this and we have to report to deed every year okay well and the wages some wages could be less than an hourly rate while others could be higher yeah yeah yeah and though at some of the ways that we've looked at all of that in submitting Cara do you have any questions on the policy no I don't really have any questions um it's no secret that the area of tools that I would look at would be I would put this like the the minimum requirements that I would look at would be very different and and much different I wouldn't be looking so much at wage and that that type of thing I would be looking at did the city in some way create a situation that a property can't be redeveloped without city assistance to undo what the city did did to that error and for number nine in competition my kind of a question but it it's when we're talking about competition we're talking about like two like two competition but we are by using this we are favoring one business over another and they may not be a direct competitor but make no mistake we are favoring because we'll say we like you and we like the business you're doing and we like the jobs so we're gonna favor you over someone else that may have wanted to develop that property and cut out with assistance but we'll pick you so I like that there's the competition clause and they're from like to like but we are we are favorite we are going to favor someone just by using these policies we will favor someone over someone else so I just want us to acknowledge that you know that is what we're doing and as long as everyone's comfortable with that that's what we do what everyone is eligible to app to apply everyone is eligible to apply and they must meet the qualifications so if two businesses want to apply for TIF and it is within a district we also know that they can get assistance okay Dan G do you have any questions you're good dan K do you have any questions no but this is really focused on incenting new and being competitive with our neighboring cities who have lots of brown dirt ready shovel ready developable and when when they're choosing between Burnsville and Lakeville or Burnsville and savage or prior Lake or Credit River Township or whatever south of the river I think this helps us become more competitive to draw attention and do Burnsville and potentially retain interest in Burnsville as opposed to saying you know we're just gonna go where there's shovel ready brown turd and it may or may not have an incentive but you know the the land or the zone or the circumstances are such that our business subsidy but for that they would probably just go somewhere else so I think this is important to have it's the part about this whole policy that I've been trying to digest from the last meeting in the previous discussions is it really is that there's one statement in there about the but-for test I mean to me that's the biggest one I think it's easy for a lot of people to assume that this is some sort of government handout that is available to everybody and and some now the city's gonna get in the business of picking winners and losers and or just giving away money so I've been very very careful in reading all of the qualifications to ensure that it really is a pretty high threshold so it's it's going to be a select number types of businesses that are going to come in and and qualify for this isn't for everybody and they have to meet a lot of minimum qualifications and and there's a lot of I think you've written in a lot of latitude for the council to make sure that it it meets certain goals it meets certain objectives it's going to redevelop a piece of land or it's going to fill up a piece of land that has never had development on it etc so I think we're in a good place I know that we modeled this over after Roseville's and I liked that one when I was reading it better than any of the others so I think we're we're getting to a good place with this still feels a little uneasy because this is something I voted against vehemently four years on this council and I'm now to a position where I'm looking at it as an investment in word does the city get its return on investment there is a certain cost that in any given project but I'm focused on when does the when does the city get its money back turning a undeveloped piece of property or a underdeveloped piece of property into a fresh development with a larger valuation on our tax books and we're gonna collect that property tax in perpetuity how many years is it for the city to get its subsidy back and then you know then multiply that it's really a business decision the same philosophical math that a business goes through when they're looking to open expand you know add to their business it's what is it gonna cost to invest and how soon we're gonna get our money back and what are we gonna make after that so I think we've got that process in place with the qualifiers that can support something that I can support okay good because in terms of when does the city get its money back you've been here when we've gotten our money back we took one in two yeah and you don't have to justify it right yeah so that you know you've seen how this all works yeah absolutely yeah Dan coupling you have any questions accomplices the objective we we sent out in terms of an aging suburb we've seen other cities decline and continued decline when they've enacted some of these more progressive approaches to getting economic development they revitalize not only you get a payback but the whole city the benefits and homeowners benefit because of a better quality atmosphere enhances everyone's value of their homes too so I think it finds a good balance I think it's an excellent first step okay yeah I echo that as I was driving into Burnsville on highway 13 going west by the Riverview shopping center and I said okay people are driving into Burnsville they see this you know two-thirds empty shopping center that's not in very good repair vacated gas station and that's the first impression they get you know are they gonna want to live in Burnsville or gonna turn around and go over to Eagan or down to Apple Valley to me that's what this is all about is getting you know at least it's particularly those things that are right in front of everybody yeah really nice gateway to Burnsville isn't it over there these girls middle school okay um we're gonna Marik use odds the only clarifying question I just want to bring up to the members here is a page 7 subsection 5 F they're just on the way to the door and just wondering the 200% is that competitive to these just don't want a handcuffed city of burns off our qualifications are too high that it doesn't sit yeah business coming in wants it turn around and go guys yeah they said you would thing shovel ready dirt site and median nerve you do this all over Chozen yeah me remembers to console though we've looked at policies that have a real broad range I'd say this is probably right alone in the middle so we have we have some that just talk about using the minimum wage as a standard 150% there are policies that use three hundred percent and again as long as you gotta remember as long as two jobs have the two hundred percent of minimum wage that's the floor right the other jobs that are there could have a different you know wage associated with them and you have flexibility to change that but I think if it became an issue of competitiveness and this was the sticking point you have the flexibility to work around it to get what you want as a community okay thank you um me and this is under under city objectives for the use of public financing page 2a and again because we talked about this at the last meeting meeting and this has to do with bonds and other forms of public financing is appropriate to assist private development projects and you know I do not like using bonds the city's Authority for bonds I've already got it's tricky note from the from the draft goods an oversight that it even stayed in there because we talked about it at the last and I saw it here and I had to bring it back because you're not going to mess with the triple-a bond rating smear absolute not and that's an oversight that that was in there skip can attest I've already got a little squiggly mark to take that out of the policy thanks it will not be there in the final thank you you know they you have it on page one under C where they can you get grants and all of that with the city's help oh no do not touch the city's balance okay we heard that loud and clear thank you could you please clarify number four under page two under city objectives for the use of public financing encourage additional unsubsidized private development in the area either directly or through secondary spin-off development can you say more about that sure mayor members of council the idea there is just that you know if through the use of your tools in a particular area you believe that that's going to lead a reinvestment adjacent or you know in the general vicinity as a result of that investment that that would be something that you'd be hoping to accomplish and that's what I want all of us to understand what that means because I was thinking again about the County Road 42 corridor right okay and then under page three public financing principles under age number one can you choose say more about all viable requests I read stuff and I'm thinking okay you guys which one was it on which section it's a public finance principles page three number one a 1 3 a 3 a 1 so Mears a question there what constitutes a viable request yeah and I understand that we have the request the application okay I mean I think there's gonna be a preliminary look from the part of staff to ensure that you know this isn't just a sort of a half-baked idea and an incomplete application you know before it would be scrutinized to you know as to the the financial readiness and the but-for test yeah so I I just think it's a you know before they hand it off to us to do analysis or to legal for example that there's gonna be a basic standard that has to be met okay I just wanted to make sure that that is exactly what that meant that's the intent okay so under page five and this is under minimum qualifications and it is H and this is where it gets to some of the the concerns that have the applicant or its contractual assigned shall retain ownership of any portion of the project long enough to complete it stabilized its occupancy established project management and or needed mechanism to ensure successful operation one of the things that we've always been concerned about is developers come in build it and leave to somebody else and I just want to make sure that our contracts with the original developer that if they sell it to someone else the project that they're going to comply with what we have in in the contract that's what okay because yeah I don't want to see somebody coming in getting what they want and then they leave and and the project sits there okay uh still on page five under desired qualifications I'm okay with conduit bonds because we've done that for the hospital because it doesn't affect our bond rating is that correct correct yeah so I'm okay with the conduit bonds and we've never had that in the last policy but is there is there reason that we wanted to call that out Jenny and skip because it always has been that you know when I well for instance the hospital when they came in they just want us to have a we we just have to say yeah we'll do it but it's a time to it Vanya doesn't affect our bond rating it has nothing to do with our process and so forth Jenny do you have anything no I'm guessing this is and I don't recall specifically in the Roseville but it probably was in there and also listing it here does let the applicant know that this counts towards the private investment yeah because it's usually it's Android bonds up for nonprofits 501c3 okay just wanted to make sure so your ma'am mare so you wanted it included it is in it is in there okay yeah it's in there but we've never had it in our past I see so yeah and it's for and that allows for a 501 C 3 and I think last time you talked about Trinity yeah so is it as long as it the conduit right the county under those were the only things that I had but I thought that was very well done I like the connections well any your appendix that has to do with the application and the sources and then everything that has to do with the application process and the application I thought that was well done anybody else okay Jason skipping Jenny and Melanie you have what you need yes madam a little fluid we will bring this back to you next month for adoption okay thank you very much good work dad bought those bonds no come here yes Dan cake that question for Miss Faulkner yeah I don't know how long ago was it but I understand some years ago the curling organization or business that went into Shakopee originally came to talk to Burnsville about a potential project I don't know who they talk to but it didn't get the council it was curious I understand from some news reports that they're overwhelmed in demand and they're looking for a second curling ice location in the South Metro and I think they're pinging some other cities I'm just curious if they called upon us and had a discussion at one time we might want to invite them back and at least have a discussion to see if anything might fit for Burnsville and I don't know what end up what ended up happening as far as how that project got developed does not shock of 'i'm sorry Chaska Cheska sorry yes that was the they're looking they're talking with savage they apparently curling is one of the hottest sports activities now curling pickleball curling yeah I don't know the I I didn't hear anything about it yeah they're I guess talking with savage about a second location but I am doesn't have ice and we have two sheets lakeville has two sheets I think Egan has three to two Aeneid so our ground us Apple Valley has - part of the business model and this is different this is not a skating rink like we have part of the business model as a bar oh yeah no so yeah yeah and I and it is it but they build it it's a it's a free-standing built building well I'm Jessica I'm curious to learn more about that that got developed because they really gets a partnership because it's attached to a facility that the city has okay Jenny mad mayor members of the council I would add that I believe they're purchasing land greenfield land and savage right and we don't have a lot of greenfield land for someone to buy so it's possible they may have looked at us and there weren't any opportunities lots of violations yeah good we're fully developed and a lot of property owners on 42 you don't see a lot of for sale signs out there so that's a big challenge we have a lot of people who want to be in 42 we have people who come in and when they want to be there they want to own an opportunity to buy just isn't there in the desired area that's a big challenge for us okay thank you we're going to continue with our agenda this is the center village traffic study and we have Jen presenting tonight with Brandon so you're going to tee it up Jen metameric members of the council we have been working staff has been working on a traffic study now for a few months with Kim Lee horn as our consultant and this is one of the short-term tasks of the Burnsville Center Village vision plan and so I have Brandon here we're going to give you an update tonight on where we're at and then we'll be back in February to discuss the final findings with you okay very good welcome Brendan thank you so just to kind of start off kind of do a kind of an overview of what the goals of the study are in the Center Village area really what we want to get an understanding of what what is going on there from kind of a background growth perspective and on the roadway Network because that's one of the things we have to consider we want to understand and make sure we're consider in transit and potential changes that will occur over in that area with discussion of Orange Line extension and make sure that's a factor that's considered and then obviously we want to focus a lot on what are the impacts of the center village redevelopment really I'm we're focused on kind of the transportation network and also kind of the multimodal components so we'll we'll review that ultimately we have a traffic analysis piece but ultimately where this will go is we're going to be developing a variety of concepts where improvements are going to be anticipated to be needed to mitigate various operational challenges and also focus a little bit on what some of the public improvements and timings are so a little bit of a plan where there isn't plan to move forward so people have questions as we go through it certainly feel free to hit me up I can stop okay traffic study approach is relatively similar for a variety of things we do the graph book up there just kind of covers we originally collect data we want to get traffic counts in an understanding of pedestrian movements we actually did collect traffic dad out here in late June early July we then understand existing conditions and do some analysis there develop our forecasts and put those forecasts on top of what we're anticipating to happen in the future without any changes and development we analyze what future conditions will be and then we kind of determine without any improvements okay we're having some challenges certain areas and ultimate we ultimately we develop mitigation measures so the exhibit here really shows what the focus area of the study is near Center village that we're focused on from a roadway network perspective we're really running a relatively large area that includes roughly 36 intersections that all the circles are intersections that were actually analyzing runs from Coney Highway five on the west and over to Portland on the East End McAndrews on the north and then it's down at south cross drive on the south with 42 being a major focus along with the interstates right in the middle so the other area the blue kind of they looked like a gate those are kind of where we also collected some like 24-hour counts and so we collected data at all those locations and that was the focus of our analysis just kind of being aware of what's going on in kind of a review of existing conditions it will not be entirely surprising to all of you here but there's certainly challenges in the area the a.m. generally operates relatively well the PM peak is certainly busier and the weekend certainly has periods that are very busy but kind of a black box along 42 kind of highlights where it really is kind of most congested it's near the two interchange of 35 W 35 E Nicollet in the middle and then it kind of extends all the way to the west over death Byrne Haven so it's pretty busy there there's certainly some other areas that have some periods of congestion the yellow locations are actually as we look at crash den and we kind of compare the trends there those are locations where there's a higher crash occurrence or a more statistical significant crash concern that exists today when we compare it to kind of intersection of their peers so ultimately we looked a little bit at some existing conditions and we go through the forecasting process so how we developed what some of the background growth was out there as we did kind of a combination of a couple of things we wanted to look at what the Dakota County modelling process their transportation plan their travel demand model had in it so we looked at that to kind of understand what growth would be on the roadways without any changes we also certainly collected a lot of data near Burnsville centers so we had a really good understanding of what was actually traveling into and out of the mall area today so we kind of had a baseline where if things change we could subtract that existing traffic and then add on what would be forecast transit use we did take a look at MBTA ridership we've been involved in some of the orange line extension planning process some of my colleagues and so based on that review we're anticipating ridership on some of the bus the bus related ridership to go from somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.3 and double to roughly 3 percent so we did consider that as we move forward by reducing some of the vehicular trips to account for transit use this is a this is a screen screenshot that basically shows what how do we kind of define level of service so in traffic engineering we define it a lot of you probably this is you listen to other studies we defined it kind of like grade school or high school grades A through F a as grade F is bad signalized intersections generally people tolerate more delay so the cutoff of where we start to say things are more of an issue our kind of level of service E and F a through D are somewhat acceptable during different periods of the day uncivilized there's lower threshold for tolerance so that cutoff line is roughly 55 seconds per vehicle of delay for a signal and then it would be 35 seconds for a nun signalized intersection and I don't want to dwell on all the time but what this this exhibit really kind of shows I didn't focus on am because AM operates pretty well but this kind of shows us we look at an overall intersection level of service the average delay for all vehicles during that existing p.m. peak period we see a couple of intersections that are worse than you know they're kind of getting in the yellow they're approaching D and there's some challenges there are certainly movements that are higher than D but a lot of the intersections are operating overall you know kind of that D through a lot when we get into the no action conditions and we start to kind of overlay it's just some of that background growth without even considering some of the changes driven by some of the center village development we have a lot of deterioration anticipated so you can see a log 42 or any level of service ease action means no action intersection means there's not a signal you know so what we do is go back I'll just I'll just explain them both because I probably didn't hit it very well under our existing conditions we model it just as if it was today so if there is a signal out there or it Sun signalized we analyze the intersection and the level of service showing is that when we do a no action condition we grow the traffic from today's traffic we go forward with what that background growth would be so it doesn't consider additional growth or changes due to the redevelopment that we're studying as a part of senator village it would be a growth 2:42 to the west driven by maybe growth in savage you're 42 to the east side of Burnsville so it considers that growth we consider the lane geometry at the intersections and a roadways to be the same and we consider them to be basically the same intersection control as they have today we might we would tweak the timings a bit you know but that's about it does that make it do that answer your question yes thank you so we do have we have kind of level of services and D is all on 42 and then we do have isolated locations where there's some F some of those are due to the fact that they're uncivilized and they just get to a place where they break down so intersection control changes could change but the point really here is if there's if we're looking out into the future and we're not considering a growth we have some challenges so there's gonna be some areas we're gonna we're gonna be looking at some mitigation yeah in that projection what was what is the year that you projected that 2014 okay 2020 it's a 20-year time horizon we will be doing an analysis for kind of a middle year at 2030 kind of an interim condition which allows us to look at timing we started with that 2040 it's relatively common in what we do to go out about 20 years thank you so then as we look at the center village redevelopment vision we kind of built off what was done there so this exhibit is actually right from the vision where in the east is existing condition on the right was some of the land uses that were considered as part of the that vision as to what was thought to be kind of probable at the time so we've taken those land uses and basically looked at what would happen when we look at the trip generation rates and basically so what we can do is we look at what the various if we have a certain amount of additional retail we have a certain number of homes we have we there's some medical office type uses we basically have some tools where we can look and based on the size of those facilities we can project what the traffic will be generated by those facilities so what this table basically shows is we've got an existing in Burnsville mall traffic generation that comes out and roughly that's about 18,000 vehicles per day and that's really us looking at counts in and out because we have a good handle of all the nodes in and out when we do the projections and we basically say hey what's the difference between today into the future traffic's anticipated to roughly double yes that's 18,000 trips to the mall proper per day actually into that hole it's kind of in that whole area around the mall so it really is kind of into the mall area but it's all the intersections kind of the in and outs so it would be off a burn Haven as well Buck Hill Road and then off of 42 so you know it's not the map you presented but this is the smaller areas thank you and then we have the peak hour which again is that's more based on County and so you can see you're a I'm kind of what I had alluded to before and everybody kind of experience it's got a lot less traffic in the area because that retail the the retail nature out there is just lower it's not as busy in the ham and the PM that gets relatively busy but when we do the projections it gets quite a bit higher so the growth on the bottom is it's roughly another 20,000 daily trip so you know in what we do we don't focus a ton on daily trips we're really looking at kind of your peak hours of what can get in and out so the daily is it's it's nice to have a handle on but we're really much more into the traffic can be distributed and an area like this where there's hitting several hours of the day and so it's really what can we process when its busiest and how long how many hours is it you know pretty dicey so in here we've got our peak hours shown at the bottom in terms of what they would what they were the increase would be so a.m. peak would go up quite a bit which would be kind of anticipated because there's a residential being added the PM peak and you know nearly doubles and the Saturday peak also increases so based on that traffic excuse me based on the traffic kind of overall traffic that I just talked about we actually used a tool that the city obtained access to called street light data where we basically can get a good idea of who is driving into this area based on it's basically MnDOT uses it it basically uses some of the cell phone type probe data so you get an idea who is coming to and from this area and so basically this map basically here this map shows where are people coming from so 20% of people are coming and from 35e to the north 20% are coming from 35 Dublin's W and so forth so you can kind of look a lot of the traffic is coming in from the east and really the Northeast to kind of get into this area of the mall so we use that percentage and those those you know site traffic projections to really redistribute and develop our forecasts we certainly wanted to consider the roadway network that was anticipated as part of the vision so one of the things that changes this kind of aldrich will extend through the mall and reconnect kind of on the southeast side but this is what we built off is kind of a base of where some of the changes are so what are we where are we at I mean basically we've been working as a PMT and looked at where there's challenges and we've developed and we're starting to review a series of improvements and those improvements what we're doing is basically ultimately making sure from a traffic standpoint and pedestrian standpoint we have a good foundation of what needs to be considered and then we're going through kind of the more detailed concept development here shortly so what I'm gonna walk through here is kind of a series of improvements that are being considered some of them are kind of a more of a baseline condition and as we walk through the costs and the impacts then we'll kind of move forward from there and have an assessment of what makes sense but this slide is showing we tried to isolate it to present it so this is really focusing on some of the pedestrian related improvements we did we've heard a lot about pedestrians and challenges along the corridor so the red lines going basically on each side of 42 would be improvements from sidewalk facilities to get it to be more of trail facilities so there's more width so looking at having that connectivity all the way through with much better facilities and then in the middle which is kind of just between Aldridge and bird Haven that was in the vision as changing some access there so it wasn't necessarily the 3/4 intersection it was a basically a right in right out to allow for a pedestrian connection under 42 so that's one of the things that we're looking at from a concept in cost perspective I mean pedestrian pedestrians crossing the roadway it's a way Crossing and so to have some another alternative would be pretty beneficial so these are more of the pedestrian related improvements that we're considering any questions on that one so them building off a kind of what was shown in the vision roadway layout this next series shows a little bit more there's going to be what's going on necessarily related to the redevelopment area some of that will be determined and changed by actually you know proposals and things as they move forward but the dotted are kind of the extension of Aldridge the interchange itself some of the things that we're finding is and looking at is if you go underneath we're basically showing a blue line that runs along 35w on the west side thought process of what we've got there there we go thank you so this right now everybody exits here and you can go any direction at that southbound ramp Terminal one of the things that we're investigating is if we were able to have traffic pull off earlier and run concurrently along 35w and kind of a separate exit ramp then have a decision point here where you're exiting traffic that wanted to turn onto 42 would exit but you could slide under the bridge there's some with behind the beams to actually or the columns to extend the traffic underneath and provide a more direct connection to Buck Hill Road and ultimately the redevelopment area so that's one thing that we're looking at from a concept perspective that would require a couple changes one we're looking at obviously the through lane wouldn't occur on the off ramp so we're looking at some options there is that a through lane or do we have to actually have an additional left turn lane like there's some areas where there's triple left turn lanes that's something that we're looking at on the off ramp there's a connection that we're still showing that ties into that vision roadway network that would provide some access on the south side of that ramp the way we had would have that right now is signed so people could exit get on 242 but it would be an eastbound movement we'd want westbound movement people to go to other intersections to allow this to move operate more efficiently and then down in this area just because we don't have the connection to Buck Hill Road up to 42 we would basically have to route people into the development to gain access up at Aldridge and so there's some changes in here where North bond basically would turn left your South bond would move and there's kind of a different intersection but we're showing here is this intersection is kind of the one it ties in right where there was an intersection showing as part of the vision so as to do that we're hoping to improve some of the operations on 42 but also really serve access better to this area Cara so you're talking about routing them actually into like they would need to be routed into the mall area south bond would not southbound traffic would go straight but northbound you can't if you were to continue to go straight you'd run into the interstate so yes we're turning northbound traffic into the mall area onto that roadway Network so northbound Buck Hill Road why do you think that's better because why do I think it's better because having as much traffic on both northbound and southbound at that rap terminal makes us serve more traffic from different signal phases and so it's a lot of traffic to actually process with the amount of time that we can cycle that signal at that southbound ramp Ryan this wouldn't be occurring in the current layout this would be occurring concurrently with the slide that he showed the whole network going through there so we aren't proposing to do this in the current situation yeah maybe it would be contingent upon building the network there that you were loaded into if you catch my drift No so you have you have to construct that Sarah tires thing would be under development that sort of thing in order for that to make sense we aren't gonna propose unloading the traffic into the current mall proper the way it is now there'd be a public street network going through the mall property so your projections on traffic at the intersection coming coming off the off-ramp on 42 is you're trying to minimize that congestion by routing people on the east side of that with that new blue to get them all the way down to Buck Hill Road and also an access into the new development okay Vince so if you're northbound you're driving through a development to get to 42 if you potentially are trying to go east-west correct there would be some people that would end up going on a public roadway network in a redeveloped area to gain access to forges so is that it and obviously we're talking about this is a ways away but is that a two-lane road a four-lane road that runs through a development because I would assume that that traffic load northbound would be somewhat significant yeah I mean to put it kind of in perspective the northbound traffic is somewhere in the neighborhood of during like the peak hour 3/8 of 400 vehicles a northbound arse so basically three exiting and coming in through Crystal Lake Road yes yes and that's that's a much less congested traffic yeah the northbound traffic at this at the ramp is basically gonna be you know today it's about 400 vehicles going northbound that actually reached 42 at that cellphone rang if we flip it and we look at the southbound traffic at that rap it's in the neighborhood of 1500 vehicles during the p.m. tower they're just they're very unbalanced so we got five hundred going one direction we got 15 going the other and we're trying to find ways to better operate that single with less and if the roadway network is changed as part of redevelopment well then you would go in through a different it wouldn't be like driving through them all as it is today yeah okay Kara so on a different screen could you show me where that would be in the future you're wondering where that traffic would go in the future yes so I mean under this scenario there is a roadway that's right here that's gonna be a direct connection of aldrich that would connect up to 42 some people I would anticipate would connect and use that connection all the way up there's a proposed roadway that goes down the center of the site that could go and make our you know go through the site and make her right you know there's a couple different options depending on how that develops in the future I would anticipate based on Aldridge being pretty straight and connected you know pretty well through here a lot of people are gonna turn short of the intersection we're showing right here they're gonna turn up here and go more the straight line connection to get up to 42 and make a left or utilize burn Haven well there are some of us who also use that little ring road inside the shopping center so go in there and then take that ring road and then come up to Aldrich where there is a signal light [Music] we're looking for some feedback because they're gonna continue to do their work yeah you've got some concerns that they want that you wants to have to be aware of I get the problem that you're trying to solve I don't agree with the solution that you've come up with to solve it because it does not appear to solve that issue I understand that now and projections would be that it would be a much lower level of cars trying to go north on that are you also taking into account people that are just going into that area wanting to be in that area because you're like you're routing them right into how we consider anything right into the center of it yeah I mean I think there's also a consideration as when the roadway Network changes to account for something like this some of people's behaviors will change quite a bit because they're gonna be a they're gonna become familiar and you know I'm gonna take burn hey burn or I'm gonna take a different route because it probably serves any more directly than this alternative you know there's some changes just the roadway changes you know where I live and there's a whole new connection you adjust to it and you make some changes and you pick an alternative route that's a little bit different I think you'll get a combo of some people that want to go into the mall and make it right they're gonna go up through and it's not going to be a big a big issue at all I think some people that ultimately want to make a left burn Haven is going to be just as efficient so they're they're just gonna change that route but there'll be changes it's you can explain it but I if we're looking at and you were showing in the previous slides the increase in traffic if that Center is actually created just the flat-out increased traffic in that area period not even talking about people that want to get somewhere else just like they're going there right they're going into that Center so we're looking at already driving a ton more traffic into that area and now it's like oh and by the way will will route some more into the center of it so I don't see how that is solving solving the issue that you're trying to solve I guess I guess when we look at our forecast we're considering the additional traffic on all the roadway Network that's separate from the center so I mean we're increase in traffic on 42 we're increasing traffic based on growth on highway 5 in different roads and then when we look at and say ok this roadway connection won't happen we're changing where that roadway you know the vehicles turn and we're moving vehicles around to account for those changes then we're analyzing them and that analysis is showing the intersections down in this area off of Buck Hill Road are gonna operate fine our challenges are more up on 42 and you're dispersing the traffic is what you're doing right yeah I would add what happens is the area between 35 W and 35 Yi is what really falls apart mister go so we died concept is trying to remove trips that are right at the 35 W 42 Nicollet 42 and 35 E so by disconnecting Buck Hill Road up to the north that will be reducing trips that would get right onto that intersection if you see what I say see what I'm saying and like I think we'll end up with quite a few more trips on burn Haven and if the goal is to have a sleepy little road where that dash line is you know I don't think that it will be fairly busy that would be a fairly busy road we bitters we said the problem we're trying to solve is that trap is already one of the major things hindering this and then when you had double the amount of traffic generation it's very difficult to find a silver bullet but obviously we're trying and we appreciate the comments but that's what fell apart my understanding is is the 35w 42 new code 42 and 35 42 so that by removing one of the access points up to it is going to help make that area flow a bit better but we do have to keep in mind what it's going to do to the center village great which is like goals was in creation of centre villages it's this walkable area Jenny I'm council member hschultz member of the council how I would view this as to me buck Hill Road right now is kind of a cut-through street right I don't access the mall from that I don't know that a lot of people do and the numbers show that a lot of people aren't accessing them long so it's the way I look at is it's kind of changing that cut through pathway up to 42 so because of the development and the pedestrian friendly atmosphere we want to create here people will be less likely to cut through and be diverted where the roadway is planned and will likely use burn Haven because that's underutilized now that's two ways each Street and so it'll be a lot quicker and you'll have a lot less stops and will feel safer when you're driving because they'll be less pedestrians there so the cut through which is changing instead of going due north to get up to 42 to go west or east you're going to before you get that far to TGI Fridays you know you're gonna make a left and get Upper and Haven go around that kind of become something to cut through that's how I that's how I see this do you see it that way because you didn't present it that way do I see it as per traffic going to difference you see people saying oh I'm gonna use burn Haven yeah when you presented it likes showing the dashed lines and that kind of stuff the emphasis is on diverting the traffic into center village I guess that's what it looked like my point is the traffic the traffic volumes going in at those intersections are not an issue I mean they're just they're very considering the volumes that we have at the other intersection then 42 and the fact that we're trying to convey an extra 20,000 vehicles that want to get here via 42 these intersections and where that lower volume of traffic goes is not going to cause a major issue your issue is going to be your traffic going log 42 and the high volume that's trying to get off the 42 into this development okay you know I'm asking you questions because if we're going to make a major change and it is a pretty major change what I don't want is what we see in other parts of the Twin Cities where they make a major change and then you're driving it and you're like and this was really dumb like I now that I'm on it why why did this happen and that would be great to avoid that in Burnsville okay so that's my concern that's why I'm going to keep grilling you on this anybody else have any concerns with what the engineers are presenting I just want to go one thing that I think took Kara's point that this was a multimodal pedestrian friendly area and we're now focusing a primary Road through it on a roundabout it just seems somewhat counterintuitive to what we've landed on up to this point so I'm concerned but again this is all kind of concept stage and this layout might not be the layout that it ends up being either so I don't want to put too much emphasis on this I understand that what the draw and the desire is but I think if the core of this we want it to be what we've brought it up to be a primary Road or with a lot of traffic could hinder that vision from materializing I think is and I think one of the things that you might want to do the next time when you present is how that's going to affect pedestrian okay because we're just talking about motor vehicles but I think you have to add and that that pedestrian component Melanie madam mayor thank you pulling out the center village plan a couple pages after a little bit though one with all the red lines on it that guy that's in our plan if you go a couple pages later there's a similar map with different colors that talks about the pedestrian and the paths them that are kind of over wood overlay on this beam you wanna think about them multi-layered is we're talking about moving cars right now but certainly moving people as a part of the overall vision yeah okay so then we are looking at based on those increased volumes what are some of the improvements that we're anticipating are going to have to occur to serve that additional traffic going both background traffic and traffic going to and from this redevelopment area so what this does is basically the red are still showing as is the blue but the yellow lines are basically showing areas where additional turn lane capacity is required so the yellows are generally locations where they're single left turn lanes would end up becoming do a left turn turn lanes the blue lines are basically showing additional through lanes on highway 42 so basically there would be an additional eastbound lane that would end up having to get added in this area to get additional traffic through and then there's some additional lanes over in here to basically allow for all the additional traffic coming to and through to get along this corridor so there's quite a bit of areas where we're looking at different widening to basically get traffic lined up some of those wide needs will end you know turn lanes at the interchanges but ultimately is there various segments we're looking at adding additional lanes in each direction mostly focused kind of between Aldridge and you'll have Tripathy I know looking at our plan for this whole area because for transit we need to make sure that we have those pathways there those pedestrian pathways so that's I mean that's what this slide is showing there's quite a bit of the improvements if we look at focusing along here would be required on 42 and so we're laying that out now more in detail more at concept dry okay if we ride in the roadway to add do a left turn lanes at these intersections and we had in the additional through lanes okay what are the impacts how does that fit in the right away where will the trails fit you know what kind of impacts do we have so we can kind of put together those concept level costs so these are the ones that are focused on 42 now there's another alternative that's been we've been discussing and so basically this concept shows a little bit less development on line 42 but the difference is up at the top what would be required is an additional connection to this interchange in McAndrews and so one of the things that could be done is adding an additional southbound exit ramp that would tie and good luck with all those residents I remember when this was done earlier and they did not like that and so that would be if that if this concept were considered it'd be adding an additional ramp you'd be taking some houses yeah and so that's some of the discussion item here is you know is that's you know is that this allows a lot less some of less impacts in here which we have it you know we're still laying them out but if this were to get served with some less impacts and there were a connection there it helps disperse some of the traffic into the area with the additional you know forty thousand trips will be a long process and there will be a lot of angry people when you're gonna displace them I don't know about that one well to Melanie's point previous or earlier tonight if that's a non-starter for the council we would definitely want to know that it's just like we kind of got to the previous discussion on through there when you go through when you go through the yeah I can tell you this looking for an off-ramp and an unwrap on on that road is a non-starter for me simply because all of those residents along that area are going to be displaced and it's going to be a lot of money to buy them all out and that is a non-starter when you're going to displace people I'm gonna look at who they are and what they that's a all of those homes on both side east and west and it's a non-starter for me I'm sorry there was one potential I'm sorry yes there was one potential concept where they talked about bringing it over to the east side that you have like a little flyover ramp and table land on the east side could be a more complex situation so a flyover and you won't take any properties but it's going to create some noise you know just to get back to the point when we were going through Center Village study traffic was already the number one thing hindering the plan yeah and adding doubling the traffic there I guess my point is there is no easy there is no easier so it's gonna if we want to get to the entire vision there's gonna be some pain somewhere along and you know what how we do things in Burnsville then this gets discussed where people begin to understand what's going to happen to their property and and happen to their quality of life if you're gonna have a flyover and what that's going to mean so the for me all of the folks who live around there need to be part of this discussion to really identify and not just the five of us because let me tell you that impacts a lot more people than five of us yes Jen so I have a letter written and we'll mail it out tomorrow if you are supportive of us exploring this option inviting those residents to come in and have a discussion well let me ask Vince I just I want to ask Greg a question about 7:00 and powie 100 when they redevelop that area wasn't there similar circumstances this the st. Louis Park or was that a gas station that was a gas station yeah not homes correct then actually that property is still vacant would be a similar type of look although different property that was my question for now okay kara if we're talking about going with an eminent domain action on people's homes that is just a flat-out category for you to know yeah under any circumstances yeah yeah so for you it's a non-starter to DG that's an interesting period if I put that right right I can tell you about by degree we would we would have some issues there's a couple homes that we get affected that we'd have to buy out there's a whole neighborhood right next door that would be on the west side would be Rick at all of those I can't end of like your first version under coming up under the bridge and just kind of forgot a way to come cuter although I'm wondering how many of us are actually gonna be driving our own cars in 20 years I think we got explore the other alternatives to me that's the last resort yep yeah so what I'm hearing is that there's a consensus not to move forward with it on the west side or both well I think if I over is more of a possibility the fly is going it's moving south it's the only all you're doing is moving south not not going north it would be it would be a southbound exit that would have to stay tight and then cross over and somewhere tie in over to the east it would be similar to up on 36 and a rice there's kind of an offset offset intersection and there's bridges on both sides and it's offset and yeah I'd have to be laid out to see you know can impact you know still maybe some impacts it's less than having a wrap that tie is right quality of life is going to be impacted what's that quality of life is going to be impacted let's not fool ourselves yeah we get it yeah so do you want Jen to send out her letter or not kara since I'm you're saying no no yeah Vince I think the Westside doesn't know but I don't think you could take the Eastside off the table quite yet without exploring that further so I don't think the Westside makes sense but I think the Eastside flyover option well I don't want to take that again brand and how your flyover is going to go because I think it comes it's yeah it's it's going to exhibit on the west and fly over to the east is what I heard him say would you exit south but yeah kind of pull off normally you'd then run along the highway and you'd go out probably it's ends up turning at roughly like a 45 degree angle it's a pretty tight angle across you're over the road and then you tie in up above onto McAndrews so there's certainly there's some elevational differences where that happen I mean it's a different land I think in terms definitely be a different look to it I don't I can't say that necessary that noise is a big issue because noise is often driven by the high the high speed of the vehicles going by so some of them on the ramp aren't necessarily dry in the noise but I'm not saying people won't say it's and they'll say yeah say it'll create noise what will happen a little be said might be too different when there's sound walls already yeah but this is going to be above the sound walls Council do you want Jen to send out her letter DK I have a question okay Kari goes on the flyover would anyone's property be we'd have to lay it off more you know we'd have to have a little more detail would be definitely less impact than what would be we'd be connect taking on several properties to do directly on the energy you know then you bring that back to us before you send your letter out oh my second yeah it makes a big difference if it's eminent domain actions or not yeah yeah I think you need to bring back what that's going to look like and how feasible it is before you send out your letter and get everybody all riled up if it's not going to move yeah TG I've been part of 35 solutions for many years and we've done lots of flyovers around what would the expense of something like that be I just I know it I could tell you what 494 yeah it's good I mean yeah we have to lay it out I mean it's two tens and ten million plus dollars I mean it's a partial wrap I'm working on interchange right now in Jordan it's 30 million dollars this would be less than that quite a bit but it's not it's money I think that's something that MnDOT would know be part of the discussion ELISA Master I can't imagine that would Rock the city dudes open and all rap off to a freeway they may not find it appealing either cuz now pops grants we may be able to find federal funding whatever to build it but then they gotta take on there's a lot of pieces here and I think it's premature to do that until we have a lot more information because right now you're looking to fund it through the city in the county because unless you can get federal funds and if you've looked at the tab a lot of those projects this is not going to be on a priority list it will not be on a priority list when you look at the tab and all of the funds that come in yeah well Danny actually mentioned this to me though as well do we have to notice anybody and something that may or may not happen 25 years from now isn't this more we're just kind of studying it right now to see what the feasibility is of all this my thought is if you're talking about you know especially if we were gonna go to this to the east you know then you'd be talking about people's homes fit for sure you know for talking about they would need to be part of the conversation I'm talking about the flyover part that didn't Vince was kind of referring to him yeah yeah if I understand correctly that the street changes though that we're proposing would be happening before that 20 years because it would be prepping so that we don't have all of those little nasty F's that is projected at the 20 year mark so we would be looking at these changes earlier than the 20 year mark was that correct yes we're looking at it being proactive on that right I mean the timing of this and that's why I kind of why we do it we're gonna do that 2030 analysis to understand initial steps but this is what would be required to handle traffic that farther 2040 horizon a lot of that will be required earlier you're gonna have a issue day one now it can be phased a little bit because the development won't be done in a year but yes you're correct a lot of it would be in place and what we're looking at with the 2030 is how much different are the two okay so all these plans predicated on Center billiards becoming a reality yeah yes and what we were focus on and that's a that's a good comment we were focused on basically the vision part that we focused on because of the timing that's anticipated occurs pretty much the southern portion by 2040 the northern portion you know based on some of the recent redevelopment Noori jail beers beers target redoing chick-fil-a I mean a lot of thats newer so we've been staying on the south side and looking at that redeveloping and the assumption has been beyond 2014 would be the nurses you're really really looking at south of 42 is I would say for that particular piece you need to bring back more information for us to give you specific authority to move forward to let people know what that is decayed what is the timeline for this proposed exit ramp to connect with the cameras do you see it at the same time as the 42 and arterial roads or access roads or you're talking the one at McAndrews yeah that's what we're looking in the process looking at the interim conditions I would think that one would be could be slid off longer but I'm not sure I mean I thinking it's probably more that 2030 horizon if everything were to develop you know in a couple of years so it's likely sliding farther than that you know if I were to take a stab at where I think it would lay you do everything on 42 and then ultimately those connections would be required probably 20 to 30 issue DK well this is all of it is really going back to council never guess at some point it's all driven by the redevelopment activity at the mall and we're pretty early on that process right now so I think this is great future planning because this is how it has to be done and it takes a long time to line up funding but I think we're very pretty sure to be sending a letter out to residents that may or may not even be impacted for the next ten plus years I kind of think it's gonna be more like 10 to 15 but let's not get everybody upset yeah yep there's a whole lot of things that need to happen Melanie so madam mayor and council this is very good feedback this is why we brought it before you tonight to get some initial feedback as Jen mentioned when she began her presentation we have this slotted for our February work session it's kind of our transportation work session so I was talking with councilmember workman there's a there's a 42 Corning Road 42 traffic analysis we are working hand-in-hand with our colleagues at Dakota County yeah and with you know our folks here so if they're they're going to and widen that add more lanes what they're gonna do what are they doing with traffic lights and so forth so I think there's a lot of work that needs to be done before we even address McAndrews and that too is a county road and I think staff you all need to make sure the county is aware of this concept so that they can give us feedback whether they're going to be interested in partnering on funding yes Jen so part of our project management team that we've been meeting with regularly our staff from Dakota County and MnDOT so they have are familiar with all of the things that we're talking about also the county is aware of this concept and their feedback is you know they're kind of waiting and seeing what we got to come up with costs and concepts and MnDOT also has feedback about the flyover being a concern for maintenance yeah so all of those things I think let's not jump the gun on anything let's take this slowly get us more information show us and then and then we can make a better decision okay so there's just two more slides I mean so yeah the next steps are exactly that well we're developing a list of infrastructure improvements we're developing concepts now that we're gonna work through and associated estimates ultimately to develop kind of a list of recommended improvements and tightening and some of it could be okay with challenges with operations you know and the improvements okay this are those challenges and operations acceptable or do something need to be retooled with the development I mean it's all kind of part of the equation there are like Jen mentioned there is some public engagement so the city is working on getting an interactive map up on the website and actually that'll be up from December 11th through the middle of January and then there's gonna be a couple pop open houses at Burtonsville Center outside the buckle and so that's gonna be Saturday the 14th from 1:00 to 3:00 Christmas let everybody enjoy the holidays and draft reports to see jobs January and then we're the goals to finalize the report the end of February okay Jen right now we have a circle at the intersection of McAndrews and 35 I'm wondering if you want me to leave that on our interactive mapping as long as they see that this is all concepts study in the level of line work that Brandi has shown you in not showing particular locations for ramps more of a an implement could be made here and then a note on that is that it's a long time horizon but also we need approval from Federal Highway we need approval from MnDOT and Dakota County it's not just something that happens there you had mentioned right away there's a long road not just on on the layouts but of the approval process and you know that go slowly walk carefully I know you have your letter just put your letter away for but I think yep your next steps are looks good to me it's just let's continue with the work that you all are doing it thank you for the feedback yeah thank yous if no letter yet about that okay thank you okay we're going to take a five-minute break in and we'll come back and finish up with the last of the items you you you you know I will not reconvene the Burnsville city council work session and the item that is before us is the marketing brand plan implementation and skip mean house our economic development coordinator and I Andrea bow of a2s is here to present skip you wanna tee it up yes madam mayor what we are going to do tonight is give you a quick overview of the implementation plan for our branding and marketing initiative we've been working with AE to s quite a bit over the last couple of months as you know we have the brand we kind of unveiled it at the fire muster and now we're looking at how do we promote that brand as we move forward and they have put together a excellent implementation plan for us that we will kind of share the high points with you tonight great thank you so great information that will receive from you so this slide just shows the goals and objectives of this contract that lead to us and the journey that we've taken with the city we're really on number five and six right now where we're communicating the plan to partners and we've met with some of the partners about two weeks ago meant with the CVB the chamber the school exchanged ideas and presented the plan they've also presented their plans with us so that we can have some synergy and and shared efforts so we've done that and really we're ready to start implementing the plan and we've had our first meeting with the staff today about implementation so we are hitting the road running this is just a quick look at the project schedule you've seen the slide multiple times we've worked through the discovery period the brand development we completed a communications audit and now we've completed the integrated marketing communications plan which is a really long way of saying a marketing plan and we're here presenting it I wanted just to touch back on the discovery and results we had great participation from community members and visitors in that data that we gathered through this discovery process informed the brand but it also is informing the marketing plan and the tactics that we're going to be using and an example of how we're going to use this in the marketing plan is this is from the digital survey it's a cross tabulation and when we look at things like this we're looking at this particular cross tabulation is looking at age demographics and we're really focusing on that millennial age group in terms of workforce bringing families to Burnsville capitalizing on some of the trends we're seeing of people in urban areas moving out to the suburbs and so we're focusing on that it's also entrepreneurs small business owners those are in that area that age demographic and so when we start to look at targeting when we are developing our ads we're gonna focus on the affordability of living in Burnsville because that was really important to some of those age groups so we'll use this type of information as we target it was really interesting listening to Brandon's presentation because I picked out a couple other data points that we can probably use from that presentation too so when you look at traffic trips around the Burnsville Center we might use some of that when we do geofencing we'll work with the partners like CBB and the Eames when we again look at geofencing for certain events that may happen to be in our target range so I just wanted to give you a quick look at how we're going to use that data and then again the brand will inform our ads and we'll use those sub messages again to craft those paid media buys this is right from the marketing plan it's executive summary this probably looks familiar to you I just wanted to point out a couple things when we looked at this we really focused on our target audience how we're going to capture that target audience collaboration is a huge part of this plan as you know the goals from the economic development strategic plan some of those goals were very specific to the school district they were very specific to the CBB so it's really important that we work very closely with those partners and collaborate we're really planning to meet on a bi-monthly basis to review the progress on all our plans and look for other ways to partner to leverage resources as best we can the focused marketing strategy is really describes that we're going to focus on digital marketing strategies and that's important because we can target better and we can also see the results so world when I say this plan is going to be dynamic it's really going to be based on measuring it quarterly will adjust our targets will adjust our ads and this this is a big part of that this is just a little explanation on how this plan is laid out so we wanted to make it as easy to use as possible so the way we laid out this plan was by the goals so each goal is separated out it has its tactics and action items so those people that are in charge of those goals can grab that section and it's really everything they need is in their hands so that's how its organized then when you get into the tactics we looked at the strategic plan we used the tactics that were identified in there but we took them one step further and said okay here's here's the action items you'll need to do to address those and then our team through discussing different options with partners and and what we've learned we added additional tactics that were suggesting to you additionally what was not in your packet is we have a visual here in my hands you can see it's written all over that's from our meeting today so this will change hopefully not on a weekly basis but on a monthly basis it'll probably change things while Evan flow and then we also created an Excel spreadsheet that has a budget for all these items and the spreadsheet shows the goals that are achieved by doing those different tactics we've prioritized them and then put how many hours were estimating it'll take to it to do that action and then any cost involved with that so that's also a separate spreadsheet because that will Evan flow as well and this is just a snapshot of the plan it shows goal four which is awareness of programs and incentives and looking at different policies like you did earlier tonight it shows the tactics that were identified in the strategic plan and then how they're prioritized and this is an example of additional tactics that our team developed and what you see there with different shading the red is critical those are things we're going to tackle immediately yeah the short-term are tactics that we're going to tackle over 2020 and then the green what's left there are are ideas that we wanted to capture but they may not be realistic in 2020 due to resources or what have you but we wanted to make sure that we still captured those so what are the next steps well right now I guess to sum it up I would say content is king okay we are diving in right now and we're really looking at the website we're looking at the content of that of the website we may need to move things around based on how we're going to be advertising we're going to make sure that all the content is there because really that is going to be the basis for the advertising so when you do digital advertising as soon as people click on it we want to have a landing page for them to go to so they find that information immediately so Angela so far have you looked and to see what has happened on that website since we launched that you belong here campaign yeah actually Marty is pulling the analytics for this past year for us then that was something that we discussed in the meeting today because we want to have see what's happened over the past year since you launched it and then we also want to have a baseline before we deploy that advertising and the other piece is on the hashtag on all of the social media channels how because we just launched it and then that's one way that you can get a baseline under social media channels absolutely to see so everybody used the hashtag because that's how you understand who is using it who is amplifying absolutely the point that's a good point so that's what we're doing right now is just tackling content whether it's the website handouts really just getting everything in order getting ready to deploy that advertising and earned media then the rest of the 2020 plan is really just following this the logistics following the plan the brand awareness continuing to roll out the brand 2021 is we might pause a little bit in 2021 make sure that we're still hitting the targets and moving the needle the way we want to adjust things and really just keep that momentum going this plan is really a two-year plan and it's a dynamic plan will never stop measuring results and adjusting out the windows thing you're stopping in 2021 you don't mean that you're stopping you just going to analyze and see what how we're making progress and making strategic shifts if we're not meeting those objectives right absolutely we want to make sure that we're using the resources as wisely as we can okay and prepare you for that next budget year okay and that's all of my presentation today any other questions actually I think just as an observer experiencing what's happening I think our staff has done a great job we're going to have an MBTA bus that's wrapped which means again that message is being communicated into Minneapolis st. Paul we're where the bus travels so that advertising is is going out in many different ways so a lot of great things heck it's been all over it's so nicely done anybody else I've been very impressed by all this I think it's gone it's exceeded my expectations well the thing is we had a strategic plan and part of that was how we're going to market what we have and this is a plan that follows that economic development plan and everything has tactics it's part of one of the pillars to success to the things that we're doing so I think it's well then we'll continue to to monitor are you going to be coming before us then next year towards the end of the year I certainly can yeah yeah Jenny Mehta mayor as part of our IDI strategic plan we want to do one year check-in and yeah this is very much a sarong of our ongoing of what we do and we want to hold ourselves accountable to and continue to get your direction ensure we're successful yeah and I think Melanie continuously updates as new initiatives are rolled out on the plan because when I go through it it's really comprehensive where you have the tactics and then the goals and objectives and how you gonna rip so just maybe every three months just let us know how it's going I mean I I will be watching and observing the mayor all you have to do is watch the cranes hey when I came back from Singapore one time and so and see all the cranes that's economic development you know cranes are yeah they'll be missing in our skyline for many many years they were missing and our scallion for a long time but now it's like yeah well the recession the carbonaceous there might be wasn't just Burnsville it was all over but ya know rental was our biggest reason DK a couple questions how much are we gonna spend and 2020 on this I can't remember specifically 46 do you have 96 thousand dollars in your budget for all of this point of that 96 how much is gonna fund media buys networks whatever just a place for push boosted posts we have about 57,000 for paid media and that again is prioritized so if we need to move some of that we can and that includes wraps signage the digital advertising geofencing boosting all that great question for staff for skip and Jenny how much has this branding project helped you do your job I guess put it that way how does it how has it helped the IDI Department within the city in 3-year own eyes you know councilmember Keely as you well know it's it's hard early on in a marketing campaign to really totally measure the results I think what we've seen is that is there's there's a there's an awareness that new things are happening in Burnsville and I think we have set the stage where people are looking and saying I mean we're getting calls all the time about you know I've seen your I've seen your letters I've seen your ads the bus has only been out for you know a few days now my guess is that is going to generate a tremendous amount of focus on the city of Burnsville and I but I think the real results are yet to come we've just set the stage so far Keely members of the council I would agree with that we this is this is the first version or the final version of the plan right and we're just getting started and we wanted to do a rollout at fire muster because we had the opportunity and we dropped a lot of things to make sure that that happened right so we kind of have been very ad hoc about it up until now and having this plan where we've got things laid out for the next year so I think there's a lot more to come I will say other cities are noticing south of the Metro and the county is - and I think some of those your colleagues other elected officials are looking to us and why look at what Burnsville is doing I've heard that in a couple circles maybe you have had folks ask you and that's good because we want to be leading on the leading edge and they'll bold with things and so it's it's getting noticed at least at that level and I'm sure in the broker community once we do some of the things that Andrea Nicole have laid out in this plan that's gonna get us even more exposure to those to our targeted audience right and Melanie and I had Andrea and her colleagues present to our layer managers Dakota County group and that was so well-received and it was very active and a lot of questions asked no any madam mayor and council I'd want to just piggyback on what Jenny and skip have talked about first thank re-twist team because they didn't great to work with and this has been wrapped into an economic development strategic plan but I would suggest it is broader than that this is kind of where it lives right now but we are on a staff level we are working very hard to integrate it throughout our operation so the investment that the council has made started kind of in one vein and and we're taking it we're running with it so I think it's liberating good value actually DK well I'm I'm glad to hear that I know this is a this is a very long-term plan but I know we we leaked it out intentionally through some teasers out there and now we have the full plan to execute on and you'll just go to work and do it one just to follow up to how this tool or this project and benefit we're about five months away from the next icse convention in Vegas and and I'm you know I think it's I'm certainly supportive that we go back again this year how will this change or enhance in your eyes Jenny and skip our trip back there and know so much you girls and we're gonna use the story that we're gonna be able to tell I would say councilmember Keely members of the council that's one thing that's on my to-do list is to get Andrea our brochures and whatnot so she can take a look at those as we start to share this with the rest of the world so to speak and how we can improve our messaging be concise be informative add value be recognized with you belong here certainly right it takes time it'll take a couple rounds going back and getting that exposure from folks but it's been very well received so far so that's our that's our goal is to we have a new booth materials being put together so when if we happen to have a booth there or elsewhere we've got our brand with you belong here in kind of an innovative way to share that and you'll experience that as you're in booths from time to time to you with us so I'm just the brand awareness I think is will be a lot of that happening next year well we're I kind of feel like you know you mentioned cranes in the air not a mayor and now we have this new branding and imaging and partnerships with the school and all that you look around the twin cities around the country and older second-tier suburbs go through these sort of Renaissance reinvestment reimage rebranding projects and they start to pay a lot of dividends in many different ways some measurable some just implied and I would echo councilmember workman's comments this is so far been at least as good if not exceeding my expectations and I'm I just think with everything we have going on in the dynamics of what we've the changes that we made as a council this is a we got a phenomenal future and a phenomenal story to tell to to really do some good stuff in the city and we really you need this right you need this as part of your visual when you're doing the kinds of things we're doing so very happy with it thank you very much thank you thank you so much great work and you know it's really well done thinking as Vince said yeah exceeded expectations and continue to do the great work thank you I appreciate that night I just think this council and Mayor you've really been engaged and provided great feedback and really took the time to connect us with the partners and the right people we needed to talk to so really appreciate your engagement in this process it made it go so much smoother and then of course skip and Jenny and Marty and Regina were just great to work with so thank you so much skip before you leave I don't know if this is your last meeting with us or if you're going to be here on Tuesday if you promise to not pull my item off of consent this is my last meeting all that you have done for the city skip in the years that you have served the public thank you so much for your service thank you for all that you've done in the economic development space in what you have done to help Shepherd this strategy forward with deep appreciation and gratitude for all that you have done thank you thank you okay now we'll go to round table members of the council the host community grant I'd like for this item to be placed on our all day work session and why do I want this placed in a work session the host community grant we have used for building infrastructures so it's accessible for people to do economic development and some of that is in the Minnesota quadrant and we also used it to do some study with regard to I think it cliff and straightening out cliff and all of that so mostly it has been used for all of that but a month ago I saw this grant application used for a private development and that was the the Methodist Church senior building and that was for their to pull the to help pull those utilities down to the frontage road and that was how that was so I wanted all of us to understand how do we want this to be used and then also to have before us the statute that allows us to use these funds so that we all understand what it is what the law says and how we're using it and for us to together agree on how the funds will be used so I just want to want your support to put it on the all day work session all right then the next one it is city fees and councilmember tinis mayor and council the reason I asked to have was put on as displayed in the note I'd like to add it to the all-day work session I would like to have a discussion about our liquor license and consider a tier fee structure as some other cities do and just to comment I know we made a deliberate choice some years ago to hold I guess to freeze it in a way because it stayed at the same level for for four years or something or five years seven six years that was something that the council chose to do you know and I think partly certainly in my mind it was it was one of our higher fees in our fee structure and it was you know back then I think it was during the post recession when we maybe first froze it chose to froze it freeze it sorry we did have a an increase in it this year but I'd like if the all-day work session I was discussion of creating that potential I have the discussion of a tier structure for based on the size of the business as other cities do I think that's a more fair and equitable fee structure for liquor so I'm supportive of that and I'd like to have staff pull out some information on cities that have tiers structures what are the strengths and weaknesses of those tears structures because I think there was something about around the weakness of that yeah Melanie madam mayor and Councilman will be happy to bring this forward look to councilmember Keely Lou one thing we attacked was kind doing an overall review of the council's philosophy on how we establish our fees we have a policy that we will be in the upper or quartile and I know there's been some questions on whether that is still the right if the council is still supportive of that so if you're open to it we don't believe it all together on the all-day work session I think that's a good idea so all of us take a look at all of that okay thank you I would also be supportive of that it's interesting I've been approached by some of our businesses that have liquor licenses in our city to talk about that structured fee laird fees and it was the high-end ones that it wouldn't change for them as it was they were kind of looking at for some of the smaller places in the city which I found very interesting and so it's yeah it's something to look at Jennie madam mayor members of the council I believe we did provide this information as part of the fee is there any additional or new information you're looking for or do is what you have sufficient and you just want to have a discussion yeah I think a discussion and to just look at the the principle around fees on the upper quartile but the other thing is that I do remember Jenny that you had information on the strengths and weaknesses of the tier system just to refresh our memory on that okay yeah because I do remember it but maybe everyone needs to to see it again and if I can madam air Nam and maybe Melanie was gonna mention this we're moving liquor out of Community Development liquor tobacco business licensing I fight let Greg know did I steal your thunder yeah he's gonna into administration a lot of cities clerk's offices handle that and so on Greg will be I'm sure happy to talk talk to you about liquor fees from January work session yeah okay good good shuttle pass yes was well done okay thank you thank you very much okay um any reports Vince I had a council meeting on Thursday v it was a joint land-use Advisory Committee meeting with the metro area water supply Advisory Committee and as a high-level meeting about the 2050 metropolitan development guide and it was really just focused around water water supply they're trying to look at starting a toolbox to support more effective drinking water protection climate vulnerability assessments and other such things and it was really a a lot of timing so it was very interesting to learn and talk with others that are much more knowledgeable about those things than I am but other than that that's all I have Karen we have the Dakota County communications advisory I the big things were we had the directors performance review and that went well we also have directed subcommittees to still continue researching into ways that can be more efficient different structures for how to pace the DCC so a lot of it right now is just research and investigation work that's going on and we'll start to see those reports coming in some will start to come in this next meeting and then rest will come in at the beginning of next year okay Danji my committees met last month while we're at the n LC so I have nothing to report on them but Dakota Brad Bannon will be meeting tomorrow afternoon DK nothing in particular on i-35 Alliance other than just a read another discussion on the pedestrian and bicycle access during flood events and we still are in discussions with Indy ta Metro Transit on offering bikers and walkers a free bus ride across the river when the trail is flooded which hopefully it's not gonna repeat itself where the whole summer is nearly gone with flooding we MBTA we did our 2020 budget process and discussed a lot about the legislative session coming up and the proposals by Met Council and Metro transit related to accessing funding for projects that would affect potentially in a negative way so a lot of negotiations going on about regional regional solicitation for BRT we we talked a bit about our our sorry MBTA connect our on-demand bus using older buses and sort of the buzz and to market that a little bit more because a lot of people don't know that it exists and it's out there it's it's constantly growing I think that's that's got a bright future just we're lacking marketing quite frankly more people would be calling and using it but we're funding that out of our own budget reserves basically so it's we've got to prove the concept and then go after some more funding at our last meeting there which I reason I was late for our special meeting as a week better our annual MBTA Schmidty bus holiday reception at Casper's and so good time that's it I don't really have any got some some great stuff to share from a conference that I attended in Texas and of course we all brought some great stuff back from our nationally it's the Excel format Amir nationally is the National League of Cities seminars and sessions and a lot of good stuff to help help us make better decisions in the future when as certain things come in to Burnsville that may not exist today that's it thank you okay for MLC I did not attend but Melanie attended because I attended the funeral for our former chief Dave Farrington and Melanie had reported on that meeting in her weekly report to all of us do you have anything else to add to your report Melanie for mlc madam mayor no but nothing new to report the Secretary of State was there we talked a lot about elections 2020 will be a big election year yeah and so for the Regional Council of Mayors he was he was there Steve Simon spoke about all of the challenges over the decision of you know that when you go to the to the polls you have to declare one party over the other when there are so many who are nonpartisan non-political like our staff and now what does that mean so anyway I think that was also raised at mlc so that is is an issue the other discussion the Regional Council mayor's have to do with we had him the Imam Assad saman who is the who is the executive director of the Muslim American Society but the whole idea of Islamophobia and how do we together as as community can work to dispel some of that that we're all here we may have different faiths but we all take care of one another so it was coming together and help mayors and others who were present to understand the need for us to to take heart and I think we don't have any metro cities meetings and tomorrow is our Burnsville Community Foundation meeting so that's where we're at Melanie is there anything else where's that madam there okay Michelle okay oh man oh man without anything else we stand adjourned by acclamation thank you