e e e e e all right okay let's call the workshop for April April that' be nice wouldn't look like this outside for April March 4th to order roll call please council member Nord here council member Woods here council member McKenzie here council member schwe here mayor mongi here I get a motion adopt the agenda please so moved so moved council member schwe second second council member McKenzie all those in favor say I I thank you all right we got uh one item with various topics tonight uh Dan's put together a great package to discuss uh some Tiff Basics some general fund budget Enterprise fund budget um and 2026 budget process um and then give a quick Finance update so I will turn it over to finance director Dan winck please well good evening mayor council members I don't know if I've ever done anything quick I don't know where that quick o overview is going to be but yeah um I think uh couple of meetings ago we kind of talked about uh the tax increment financing or Tiff and kind of wanted to have an update of where we're at there's a lot of information here I'm not going to go through all of it I try to keep it at a higher level and then answer any questions that uh you may have um but inide this uh PowerPoint and the material that was given to you there's an overview of tax recomend financing how a tiff district is created what drives the need for public financing types of Tiff districts um Tiff eligible costs Tiff common methods for financing options um and it'll give you uh our Ci's uh districts in their expiration dates um and then um on an annual basis is we have to uh provide a tiff disclosure so the 2023 is out there they're usually um due August 1st of of the following year and then um we do have uh we did do some uh pool uh pooling of Tiff for uh Tiff districts 42 4446 and I'll kind of talk about that a little bit and then uh the general pooling Authority and then um the city may consider want to consider some time in the future to develop a tiff policy um and then uh answer some um questions that you may have um Tiff um is a financing tool um that's established by the legislation um to uh help cities um have a the ability to help attract um development within their city um and there's certain um costs that uh can be covered underneath um the Tiff um and uh the basic principle behind it this next graph really kind of shows it better um the darker green component on the bottom is is the taxes a parcel or Parcels that are being considered to go into a tiff District Genera in taxes today um and so the concept behind it is is that after you meet certain qualifications um in the state legislation uses the butt for clause and and basically they're saying that um but for tax increment financing the development wouldn't move forward um and we can kind of give a little example on on one that we did more recently um in the article uh 7 um development old former Lily um publishing building um but uh that's what's created there um when the development occurs it increases its value and when the value is increased there's going to be more taxes that are generated in that gray area is those additional taxes the city and the county and the school district will will continue to receive that darker green throughout the life of a tiff District that additional gray part then gets captured um is all of it is the city portion the county portion the school district all of it is then sent to the city and then that's what goes to pay off um any of the debts um and we'll talk about different financing options but to pay off any debt that's associated with that Tiff District until the Tiff um obligations the debts are all paid off once that's all paid off Andor um if the Tiff expires because they all have limitations of how many years they can be out then after that point then this the jurisdictions the city and the the school and the um in the county will all then benefit by The increased value and the increased taxes then they're all shared again and if you can remember we get approximately a third um um of the taxes that are generated on a on a parcel um as compared to the county and um city or uh County in the school district um so how is a tip District created there's a project area a development District um where a portion of the tip dollars can be spent um with limitations again there's has to be qualifying costs and we'll get into that in a little bit and then um there has to be a specific um project within that overall um development District I believe the city of North St Paul is is created in a complete development district and then there's subdivided into specific projects for a a definitive specific project of a tip District itself um there's a tiff plan that is developed and needs to go through approval there's a budget there's geographical boundaries um there has to be a purpose there's a public hearing process to it and then eventually gets certified as a tiff District uh what drives the need for public financing it's kind of again if if you're looking at a developer coming in um they're going to be looking at at coming in doing a development looking at all of their costs all of the potential revenues and they're going to be looking at does this still give a decent return on investment um if it doesn't because of something that may be with the property itself some extraordinary R Redevelopment costs in other words the site has a lot of soil contamination to it and there's going to be a lot of increased costs if they were to B Bear all of those costs themselves they would turn around and say we're not doing this development it doesn't make sense to us um there can be um extraordinary affordable housing costs there can be um you could have a a a property owner that holds out um because they want to you're trying to acquire that property um but the land price is too high um again to make it a feasible project for them and so that's where you know the Tiff could end up helping out um in acquiring that property uh the development needs uh more than it can pay for um there's oversizing of the utility and infrastructure for future growth so those are qualifying components to it that can be utilized for um qualifying costs um the developer wants list risk and more return than a typical Market condition um dictates um in just Market competition so it's really how do you attract a developer to come in um and again and they're going to be they're going into it looking at us you know in their mind some sort of certain return on investment and if the numbers don't Jive um then they're going to end up trying to look for some sort of Public Assistance through the Tiff um there's different types of Tiff districts there's the economic development um that has an eight-year maximum term there's housing that has a 25-year maximum term term there's a Redevelopment that also has a 2 5 year maximum term a renewal or renovation um has a 15-year maximum term and there soil conditions that have a 20-year maximum term some of those eligible costs again are public improvements but they have to be project related um they can be streets sidewalk sewers water on the um right on the site or adjacent to it um the land acquisition costs because they may be higher than than normal soil correction and site grading site preparation and demolition relocation costs cost of qualifying housing financing fees capitalized interests and administrative costs um those are eligible costs underneath um that can be reimbursed through uh the Tiff there's financing methods there's upfront um and upfront would be where the city would be the one who would be paying um those costs um the uh a district that we um have um upfront costs that we went out and bonded for uh the Centennial um is one in which we bonded um for the street components that are up in front there and some of the extraordinary site work that needed to be done um there's also interfund loans we do have interfund loans on um uh some of the anchor anchor block um North housing housing and anchor block South soils and that's an interfund loan um that was approved by city council um and the funds came from the electric fund um and it's being paid back over time through that tax increment financing now an upfront cost the risk is on the city um and so if by some chance the value of the property doesn't go up as high and it doesn't generate as much taxes you still have to pay the debt you still have to pay the bonds off um and so what you try to do in that in those circumstances is that you will make the developer have a minimum assessment agreement in other words you say this is the minimum value of that property so if values go way down that always stays can never go below that number it can go higher but it can never never go below then you're more guaranteed that you're going to be generating those property taxes however you're still at risk if the property taxes aren't paid you still have to pay the debt my pref my preferable way of doing it is a pay as you go a payo note um and that's where the project is financed upfront um by the developer so they cover all of those costs the city um enters into a a payo note with the developer at a certain set interest certain set dollar amount for the project costs which have to be verified that they've actually we get all it's like an open book we get all of their expenditures to justify that they've actually spent that amount and then the Tiff money then goes and pays that um and usually it's set up twice a year it's us some some time frame sometimes it's um February 1st and August 1st um some of them are um end of December and end of June um so they're usually paid twice and so and they correspond really with when property taxes are coming in because property taxes are due primarily twice a year um and the developers then reimbursed over time through that increment now in this case if the increment over the life of that Tiff District never gen generates enough tax increment City doesn't have to pay anymore the developer just doesn't get all of the money that they would have been entitled to with the interest uh when it ends it ends um so they're at risk moving forward with this and this is a good example of the most recent Tiff that we that we did um that uh with the former Lily um publishing U building that's now known as the article 7 that um we were approached uh by the developer um what's nice about it is that we get to see all of their anticipated costs We can question any one of their estimates um we can request them to show us the quotes that they've gone out in the market um and where they're at um that we get to see how they're projecting their revenues um estimating number of of units that you know per the units that they're they're going to be building what would be the market um rate for those so we can kind of look at all of their revenues and at the end of the day um with interest rates um and and a you know a capital return on their investment they're going to say yes we can make it on our own or no we can't make it on our own um and there's a gap here um and we would need to have additional money because of site remediation it can be um we're building a um an under uh ground parking ramp um and that's you know a big piece here in this city because there's not a lot of parking um but that qualif that's a qualifying cost um that the Tiff could could end up um you know covering and so in that circumstance they they came and and I got to give a lot of credit for the developer Mr uh is it lavel LV um he was very honest open uh straightforward with us we had a whole team when we first met with him to go through all the numbers he came in by himself he didn't bring an attorney with him he didn't bring anything he was very open showed us everything um tried to make it work um the best that he could without requesting any additional funds um it just wasn't there it was the timing of it interest rates were on their way up um and so he did um just an excellent job of working with the city and trying to make that development happen um we entered into a tiff agreement with him um it's a payo it's a pay as you go um he also um to uh help the financing side for himself he entered into a minimum assessment agreement to kind of remove some of that risk for the you know the finance the bank um instead of the city um so this year I believe will be the first year we'll start to receive some increment um on that property um a little bit too early to see where we're going to follow out but we should end up being pretty good on on that um tax increment District that um that's the article seven that was just um just completed now is any of the properties on anchor block or that storage unit there none of those are Tiff are they they are yeah I'll I'm going to I've got two slides I kind of give you um here's kind of our the Tiff districts that we have um and have had um and there's pen Place Charles Street um reflex which we desertified in 2022 uh there's senior housing m& homes um anchor block South there're seventh in Margaret which is Sentinel um anchor Block north um housing and then commercial and then the Lily building Redevelopment is how we named it um Brian can kind of give you a little bit more information um on where these are um for your references so I'll just take a moment so Brian can kind of give that kind of information um on these districts that's the DU building where Jubilee used to be it's Char Street built if it's got a Charles address I think it does yeah it's kind of angled off 45 off the corner there so yeah yeah so pen place that's uh um that included all of those town homes along with that apartment complex uh Charles Street like we said is uh the de building um the senior housing that's the one on Helen um the m& homes is on the uh South Side that's all the homes that are anywhere from fourplex to five plexes over there um and then Uptown Commons seventh and Margaret as you know um thanker Block North housing is the uh large apartment building that's down there and then anchor Block North Commercial um that ended up being did it a large soil correction down there um I mean that that had been 68 ft deep and as big as a football field I mean there was a lot of soil changed out there take that all that right and then as you know the Lily building or article 7 is that last one there so this is the annual disclosure um for 2023 um and kind of give you a little bit of how we financed and then kind of what we're looking at um for potential times when um these could be paid off if they could be paid off early um the first one the pen place um um that's financed through bonds um and um the required Des certifications end of 29 um our bonds run through 2028 um so that'll be out there uh for a while um uh Tiff uh 44 Charles Street um bonds and the bonds coincide with the the date of required decertification of 2032 um reflex was decertified um Helen Street um the senior housing um it has a desertification date uh at the end of 2041 I kind of did a projection based upon what we received in tax increment this past year in 2024 um and I see it that we possibly could be done with that at the end of 29 instead of 41 um the anchor block South Housing um that's has a payo note onto it um and it looks like instead of 41 we probably could if again I'm taking the Assumption we get the same increment we did in 2020 4 um we would be able to be um paid off pay off the payo note um 2030 end of 2034 um the um North St Paul Apartments um the Tiff 48 um there's bonds that are associated with that the bonds go out to 2047 um and then the north block or anchor Block north housing is a payo and an internal um fund loan um that one the payo should be done about 2039 um little trickier and I didn't have time to go see how if if that would correspond with our inter fund loan um to be paid off so it's kind of tricky to find out when that one's going to be done um the anchor block South uh soils um is completely an interfund loan and that one instead of 42 um looks like about uh 2040 so um some of them can Sunset a little bit earlier just out of curiosity Dan that U that internal loan for that was that strictly for the intersection there with the traffic signals as opposed to the um building itself do you remember well it's not for the building prior to it so for okay what happens these businesses that are under the Tiff go out of business what happens do the uh Bas that in there do do they have to cover up their tax money that they owe you know like the uh oh sorry um like the uh storage units down there what happens if they went out of business well um I don't believe that any of them have a minimum uh assessment value onto it and that's again the part part of that property tax um if they don't pay it right that's why a payo note you know we're not at risk um but if we don't get the increment in um the interfund loan doesn't get paid okay um the interest will keep accumulating um but we won't be getting paid so we have a we have risk in those components like that um and then obviously if the taxes aren't paid and it goes through a certain process I think it's 5 years of delinquency then they go into judgment um and so forth um you know as time moves on there's always the opportunity when a business goes um uh you know out of business that um they may end up um uh trying to get an abatement of taxes um which I think you can go for the current and three prior years um and try to do a petition for that and so they can reduce that which then could end up hurting us in those Circ this would be the same like for Polar Ridge also right yeah okay yeah and and and that's part of that risk piece to it and that's where if it's a payo note it doesn't hurt us um but if it's you know anything that the city's carrying the debt um then you know there there's always a risk that's associated so far everything's been good playing out good um and so hopefully that'll continue Dan um if there is a minimum assess value is that tied to the life of the Tiff yes y um there was some special legislation um for those council members who were um here at the the time that we exercised um it allowed us to do some um pooling um we pulled um some excess funds that are in four 42 44 and 46 um and um I think we pulled about I think $1.1 million 1.2 um and then it allows um those funds can be used if it's to provide improvements or loans or interest ratees subsidies or assistance in the form there's some criteria there in the middle um and uh we did use approximately about $800,000 um on the article 7 um we have $400,000 that's still in that diff it expires at the end of this year um if whatever funds are not used they'll revert back to these Tiff districts so if we were when I look at like uh Tiff 4042 even though it's going to be out there a while and we have a pgo note we are accumulating more Tiff than we actually need so at the point in time when that um Tiff District gets decertified whatever remaining funds H has has to be returned to Ramsey County and and then Ramsey County will distribute it to all of the you know taxing authorities the county the city will get a third of it um the school district and so forth um we had a little bit extra when reflex um was decertified um not a lot but um and then it'll come back we get a third of it that'll come back to us but we're required then to um report that and and send the money to uh Ramsey County when we dis certify um there's some general pooling authorities that are there depending on the date of a of a tiff District that you know can allow a certain percentage um of increment to be pulled um for other future uses we really haven't exercise that um you know in the past um but there are some that are available um that's where you when we start to get into there's a lot of technical components that are there and that's why you know we do have a tiff consultant that will assist the city when we go through some of those different components and that's where at the end of the day that the city May at some point in time want to look at developing a tiff policy and many cities do have Tiff policies um you know it kind of will be a guiding um document to be able to know what projects should move forward you know it may be a recommendation of what type of funding sources um that the city would be uh has more of an appetite for again I keep saying I'm I'm more in favor of a pay Go versus in the city inuring the debt um for a developer um but those are just some things for the future for the city to think about so that's a kind of a highlevel look at Tiff um and and open it up and welcome any questions or and I'm G to be on the Eda and I'm just I'll be the Leon I guess is it going to be advisable that we proceed with more Tiff projects again collectively that's that's a city council's decision um and it really comes down to the the business sense for the city um if there's um a development that would not happen and the city believes that it it has an opportunity to really spur on maybe additional Economic Development um bring in jobs bring in whatever the case may be and those were where the policy would help if it hit certain criteria then it's you know it gets rated higher than others um but yeah I mean it's a it's a financing tool again I would look at it as let's do pgo notes with it versus um the city going out in bonding um the city does have a lot of debt for you know a debt ratio for for a small city so we don't want to be using up some of some of our um General obligation you know Authority and Rule room um for a developer to come in but again if it's something that it's a once- in a-lifetime um type of opportunity for the city um you know then you then you may want to to to issue debt ahead of time um that I mean that's to me it really comes down to what does it really look like on the the the development and what's what is it going to give the city in the long run for the Margaret Commons across the street that's why that building's still there to keep us qualified for Tiff is that correct if we use it or not but corre something to be torn down correct the uh the AL Dennis office right yeah AC the street here yeah it's already been determined as blight for that re that reason yeah so that property over to the driveways into re influx whatever the school in in there that whole property is available for a possible correct yeah we rezoned it this year so can have it one one p instead of there was five there because it was so small we want to have one one large one yeah well that's what I'm hoping to build up this year or next year next year whatever any other questions on Tiff all right let's move on to the next one I think the next one we're going to look at is um kind of give you a a look at um how we're ending 2024 um there are still some um adjusting entries that need to be done we're pretty close to everything um Capital um hasn't been um I think at the time I put this together Capital hasn't been put into a depreciation hasn't been celed onto it um there's still uh I think pension uh liability journal entries that need to be done which hit Enterprise funds um and then there's um uh compensation absences uh there's a new gby change um that has not reflected again doesn't won't hit the general fund um because it's notes for the general fund but it will hit our Enterprise funds so how did we how did we do in the general fund I I've got us right now that we're over a million dollar in Surplus um from the 2024 budget and I know how did we do that well it's combination of some additional revenues and um expenditures so I'll kind of give you kind of a an explanation on approximately about $910,000 worth of that million dollar and so we've received additional grants um and a higher amount in police Aid um than we had estimated and and knew that we were going to get uh to the tun about $161,000 uh market value adjustments and investment income um because we conservatively um budget those numbers uh was approximately about $170,000 above where we were at um that's on the revenue side so that comes to about you know $330,000 to the positive and then if we look at uh the Departments um Administration um had a decent Savings of a little over $100,000 really is attributed to um uh Savings in uh legal services and uh use of Consultants um from um past years um finance department had about a $71,000 savings and that's because we've had we've run uh a vacant um accountant position since early part of April of last year um police uh had approximately about $24,000 savings um even though we paid a lot in overtime um we still see a significant savings and this because we pretty much averaged about four vacant positions throughout the whole entire year um EB didn't flow but pretty much stuck around that that area there um Street Maintenance had a a little over $100,000 uh savings um part of that is due to um what we budgeted in for the number of Summer help um uh we didn't have as many as those so that's something that we can look at and tighten up again um in uh this next budget year um and then they had save Savings in their uh motor fuels and um salt um and that's because we had a pretty mild [Music] yeah like this and then uh Park maintenance had approximately about a $58,000 savings again the summer help um and then um didn't uh spend compared to historical um in their materials line items um so um our expenditures and those items are monit about $580,000 kind of shows where we're at about 910,000 of that savings what this means is that um we're sitting good in starting off for our next year budget now part of that um I'll use it as a million uh that million dollar savings um part of it will have to be retained um in fund balance for the general fund as our fund balance policy requires uh that we try to achieve a 50% of the subsequent budget year so the 25 budget went up so we're going to need something to be held over there what is going to be left um then will be brought back to city council as we go through the budget process of how we want to utilize that we have to remember it's onetime money um means that it can't it really shouldn't be utilized to offset oper ongoing operational cost because once it's gone then you've got this big leap in levies um it really should be utilized for things that we've been working on um in the past three years basically our infrastructure our streets um our facilities um our parks and so um when we work on the budget um Brian and I will present recommendations for City uh city council to consider um and it'll be up to you how you want to do that so one of the the quick just looks at it is that we've been putting dedicated increase in Levy for facilities and streets um we should be able to reduce that but still keep on our plan um by utilizing some of that savings and being able to take care of those INF those three infrastructural areas um but that's that's good news um uh that uh we're in there um again Brian's done an excellent job um he's uh I think at least two if not three times in our department head meetings he has told all department heads that this upcoming budget that um we are going to do our darnest to hold down our Levy increase um and so um uh department heads have responded very favorable to that and they're already starting to to look at um ways that they can be able to cut back um so um more to come on to that when we move into the budget I also kind of want to just show you how we how we did um on our Enterprise funds um because those are the those are the bigger um the general fund and the and the Enterprise funds are the bigger ones um the water um fund um so if you in in these formats the the First Column is what was approved or adopted for the 24 budget um the next column will show you what um the actuals again there's still some journal entries and so forth that so these numbers are not final they're un audited at this point um and kind of show you where we're going to you know our positive or A negative um how we did um and so this fund the water fund shows that we that we based upon where we were projecting we were projecting that we were going to increase our F balance about 682,000 looks like we're going to increase it about 737 or $55,000 to the better um if you look a little bit closer onto this you can see that the water um the charges for services for water um were $255 under budget um that's because we had a a pretty rainy summertime um so the water usage was not as high but we offset that um by uh definitely um increasing revenues on the other revenues which is basically um $246,000 is investments in market value adjustments so again that that has been last year and this year have been really big huge driving factors for us because we don't budget um all the way out on our investments um and so that allows us to to be in a better position um and and with the interest rates that we've been receiving uh the last couple of years um again I think this year total and we're again I think even higher than last year over 1.2 million in in in uh investment income um that we've that we've gotten uh the next one waste water um you can see again everything tracks pretty good on onto this again the other revenues are up um again there's market value and um income um investment income that make up uh 130,000 over um our uh budgeted amount and then we got connection charges um which are whack and Sack charges that come to the city city um primarily because of article number seven um going so it's not something that we can rely on year after year um but that was uh 112,000 of that so that shows kind of where where that um increases came um again um we're outperforming where we're at budget when we look at the bottom line uh $263,000 um so again another good news on those um which I'm hoping with these positive numbers that we're seeing that we won't have to change rates in our utilities um coming into this next budget year uh the next one the electric fund um again uh not uh not a lot of electric usage um in in compared to Prior years um if you look for that look at that charges for services down um almost $720,000 um but again other Revenue um market value and investment 4 112,000 over budget um penalties which we didn't budget penalties because that was the first year of having penalties um 123,000 and then processing fees of $130,000 um so basically makes up that difference you'll see on the expenditure side um that there's a big savings in the contractual Services um that's due to again U their electrical usage of what we pay to mmpa we didn't have the usage from our residents we don't have the pay on the other side to it so even though the revenue is down so is the expenditure side to it um again um this one performed better than where we're at and if you remember um we transferred um 1.1 million out of this fund um to start our um pavement preservation program um so we were looking at having a a negative uh change in our fund balance of about $1.1 million um it looks like will only have a $300,000 reduction um so we we looking at about $800,000 to the positive to where we were at from a budgetary standpoint so again um good news um surface water um again uh the biggest Revenue difference again is due to that market value in in investment income um basically makes up that whole $168,000 um and then uh there's uh Savings in um Capital uh there was what was on our CIP plan for uh some pond dredging um did not um happen um and then um our payment Rehabilitation project um is not totally complete but um it looks like it's it's will remain underneath what was estimated in the budget um which we budget our pavement preservation numbers kind of at a higher estimate um based upon what WSB um gives to us um and so there wasn't as much surface water which is good news because this is this is the fund that could end up being in the the biggest TR trouble because you can see you only have a budget of a million dollars this is the one when we were looking at our financial plans that really needed a lot of help so this is really good news to to see um and then Solid Waste um basically the the garbage pretty much in line um the same thing with our fiber optics if I keep up this way you can see they're they're pretty much we're right in line with what we budgeted um only you know like $4,000 difference so that's kind of how we we uh did on on our our major budgets for 2024 again good news um and um I think it puts us in a really good position to um lessen uh and the the burden of of increases in Levy for in and rates um for our residents moving into the 2026 budget any questions yeah where does that oh no go ahead um where does that fiber optic fund where is the fiber optic located that you're drawing the revenue from uh the revenue uh we have long-term agreements with Oakdale Maplewood I think those are the two jurisdictions so we get money from them and then we also charge um our departments um it's a a charge for for their utilization of the fiber so this is through the electric Department then no um it's its own fund okay um uh you'll you'll see later on uh when we get to the finished audit um and the auditor comes in does a presentation this is one of their concerns and you'll see why is because this has a negative fund balance um of over $2 million um and it'll take us probably 20 some years to get to a break even Point um onto this and there's a historical component um to all of this of why this was done at one point in time but it never um came about to the main the lines are that are in the community Center is that part of that fiber optic then yes Dan um on the Enterprise funds there is a line item under expenditures on all of them um debt issuance and interest can you explain um that line a little bit more in detail where I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around and I'll just take one example is like the electric fund how were we able to transfer a bunch of money out of it but if we're still paying interest on debt um does that make sense where I'm getting confused well there there's bonded debt um in each one of our funds well not all of our funds um it's in the electric water waste water and surface water and so the electric um had a bonded debt um um uh it was a buy American bonds um related to the public works facility um that just got paid off in February so you won't see that going forward into the future um so we didn't have an opportunity to even though we have the money to pay it early um some bonds you have um the ability to do that some you don't um some if you pay off early you pay all the interest moving forward and it just uh so we look at U get ahead of myself here so we look at that um every couple of years to see if there's any opportunities to um maybe pay them off or um to uh uh go back out um and reissue and then pay those old bonds off maybe the interest rates are better um anything the savings um we looked at it this past year there wasn't anything across the board that that was enough for us to be able because there's Bond costs that are associated with the Dos at those costs um so um no opportunities but in the electric fund um you will not see that anymore um it's fully paid off so um it still has a huge fund balance um and that's the reason why it was recommended in city council approved to to basically transfer that money from uh electric um last year um in 24 um to get going on the payment preservation I is is it typical for bonds to have penalties or or not to have bonuses for early payment for for City borrowed debt um yeah okay yeah it's just yeah most of them do and most of them you can't call until you know the latter years of the 20 years and that stuff so every every circumstance we have to look at usually uh you can't call a bond in this first 10 years um you may be able to call it later on um these bonds particularly in the electric because they were bu um build America bonds um we uh get um a good sizable of of that payment of the interest we pretty much get it all back um I fill out a form on an annual basis and I pretty much get a good chunk of it back from from the federal government so um that at the end of the day has a very very low interest um so the truth to it is um what we're doing as an investing um in the fund balance we made more than what we paid on interest of those bonds and is that the same on the debted bond for like the street projects and stuff too are you able to get or is that um specific to Enterprise fund bonds um those other bonds are not build America bonds um they're basically General backed up by the general obligation but they revenue bonds that were most of them were all tied into Street projects and so again we look at them right but are you able to get refunds on that interest or no okay no because that was just something that was part of the build American bonds okay thank you any other questions on those before we move on um and then the next topic is kind of just get your thoughts um want to spend a great amount of time but get your thoughts on the 2026 um budget process kind of open the discussion um I'm going to provide a a schedule um and then kind of seek your direction um this is a a budget schedule and it's very similar to what it was done last year um although last year we kind of felt fell off schedule a little bit uh U cuz we were waiting for some of those like the you remember the facility um assessment um and so forth um but uh you can see with the aster those are the number of um City Council meetings whether they're a workshop or a council meeting that we would have um and so really kind of want to look um to you for your direction to we want to have that many meetings I know there's been some discussion um about kind of um setting up um what we're going to have in different workshops throughout the year so city council can get some different issues addressed um we're taking you know the budget takes up a lot of those spaces um and so it's just kind of opening up for a discussion of of what your preference is many cities um do not have as many meetings as we do um you know there may be three before they certify their maximum Levy um and it's basically it at a very high in um the um maximum Levy is is done in SE middle of September um so if you can see we'll have uh scheduled seven meetings um to get there and it's usually you know it's the city administrator city manager um presents a budget you know with the finance director um we'll tell you what the levy impact is city council will really look at it from a high level and is that acceptable are not give direction to um staff the um in our case the city manager and staff um to come back at a maybe at a lower um Levy um it's then on us to come back um with to meet whatever um is set by city council and if it ends up having some sort of impact on service then we need to let city council know that um and city council has the option to either hold that lower Levy or to add it back back um and not have as many meetings um but again it's totally up to your preference I'm really looking for more Direction and thought um on on your part of what your comfort level is um because ultimately you make that final decision so we look at this here now where would if we do cut back where would we start in as far as it start with the staff and everybody else going through the first like the July ones and everything else getting everything prepared and then come back to us when September is that what you said well I would I would say we you know we we probably come and and and do early August yeah we probably would give you general fund we'd probably give you a preliminary on every budget um all at once it just wouldn't go through a lot of great detail it would be more more of um do you have questions and we would have staff here to answer any questions for any of their budgets and then seek your direction on is this acceptable or not or we have more work to do um and then if that was the case then we would come back probably the first meeting in September with have we met it have we not um where we're at and then the second meeting in September we would turn around and um certify that maximum Levy doesn't mean that there can't be more meetings after yeah you remember it's the maximum Levy it certainly can go down but it can't go up from that point so like the one is June 3 city manager budget presented to the council so that would be one we would still have but the preliminary would be done by staff and everybody else before that well we would push that that would that preliminary one would probably be we would we would put everything all together and have the city manager budget and Enterprise and everything else together in like that ear early August move date I'm just trying to see calendar would look like I I like that idea like that so that June 3r bringing it down to August I mean I think that's I like that idea I like to cut as much I mean when we first started it was six months of budget conversation right that's a lot um and if we can cut that to four months or I mean whatever ever that looks like I would like to see us cut that more and have less special meetings and I'm sure you guys feel the same way I mean you're here all day and then to be here for special meetings I'd like to see less of that too and how can we do that um as you're looking for our guidance we're also looking for some of your guidance I mean I can't speak for everyone at the stand but I would like to see what what kind of guidance can you provide us and say you know what technically we could cut here we could cut here um yeah no I I think that's pretty good so for for me I I probably would have one additional meeting and it sole purpose of it would be on CIP which I think is important yes I I you've heard me say it over and over again yeah it's a big driver so I probably would have that um and and probably have it like the July 15th and then the August 5th would be all of the budgets um taken into uh you know um it would incorporate the CIP into it it has in the past and then um basically by the September 16th we kind of really are done with a lot of well well with the budgets um after that it would be if city council had the desire to relook at something um so to me it would be the concerns of um the levy didn't get as low as you you thought it would you still want to work on that um certainly would do that um if there had been um potential increases in in Enterprise rates on you know Water waste water whatever you want to go through that a little bit more um would certainly be the opportunity to do that component to it um so you may still want to have some meetings but you would pick those meetings they would flush out as we went through the process but hopefully by about that September 16th we would be at about a 90% done with with the budget that sounds amazing yeah because we're still done your end it's just when it comes to us yeah if if we shorten the meetings is there any bonus to the budget can you say will this save the city any money what do you mean well if they cut out three of these meetings is there a labor savings that that they're going to say this will save so if we cut three of like these specific meetings we're having during Workshop well any of these meetings does it result in a savings to the city uh not really from the standpoint that uh your department heads are all salaried so they're going to be here one way or the other but I certainly will take overtime if no I just kid yeah right I'll take a bonus for this in instead of using Workshop time for these presentations and things like that they could be used for other things absolutely yeah there's there's a lot of items that are still outstanding that need to be um you know more information needs to be you know whatever information the city council wants that staff has to put together and i''d rather see staff working on Gathering that information so city council can make some bigger decisions um that drive um I think the city and the city's future that's kind of what the council is we're not to the exactly yeah I agree as long as we have the information and have the opportunity to ask a questions oh for sure for us yeah y I'm going to be an outlier and say I think we should have it stay the same way with no savings to the city the biggest public engagement that we get are all on taxes so are we doing a disservice to our residents to not spend this much time and this much focus on them in my mind we seem to be it it's just at later dates because we're all the information back it's not trickling it's more and then we go from there is that wrong no I don't think I don't think that that's wrong I I mean I that's my understanding is we're all going to get it there it's just a later date it's going to come instead of just little one here and one there type of thing right I I don't I I don't disagree with with council member nordby and and your your view on to it um it comes down to there's so many meetings that you can have in a year or so many workshops so many um Council meetings if you want to have specials which we have done quite a few in the last few years for the budget because we have other items on Workshop if you're willing to do that let's keep it the same if not then I I would recommend utilizing those times for other things you're still not getting a you're still not losing the importance of setting the budget you're still not losing the importance of the impact that that Levy has on residents I think youve you have all done such a great job on that and and are aware of that I don't think you've lost any of that and it's still opens up that um you still can um want additional meetings and you know even afterwards um it's totally up to you it means if we try to do this it means instead of having all of these meetings City staff works at putting and getting everything together UPF front for you to see quicker than we have in in the past but but I don't I don't disagree one it's it's really up to you that's really it's it's it's your decision at the end of the day it seems like a lot of them we did was you know you would say your piece and you ask we have any questions and then we' go nope and then we'd move on and then move on exactly Y and I think the value comes in being able to use those that time for other discussions you know not necessarily budget related especially as a new remember it gives us the opportunity to kind of take advantage of those times to learn more about the different departments and things like that so if the public is looking for more information we are always available for any kind of calls and explanation soby any thoughts after that no I difference to what was said or is it still the same what you want I don't feel I don't feel super strongly that I don't want it to change but I I I'm I'm one of five my personal thought is leave it the same but but I'm okay with I'm not super strong against it changing um so so if the will of four against one to change I I'm okay with that like I say I just I I know on the the meetings out there when we're doing the finance I want to be able to look everyone Square in the eye and say I thoroughly review this budget this is what I believe has to be done for the city um and and to me but I think if we have a little bit more then people can get to them more instead of feel like oh I missed something at last time oh I missed it that time and then you know if it's we get out and here's what we're going to this is how far we are maybe we'll get more people because okay I can hit that one and exate yeah you'll get you'll get a bigger picture quicker yeah um no it it um you're still going to get it'll still be given publicly all of the information that you've seen in the past um word of caution because we're going to have less meetings it means that you need to look at that material ahead of time so we're prepared when we come into that meeting so everybody staff councel have to be prepared to go through it and and get it and and ask those tough questions and make those tough decisions um but I all of the disclosure as far as information you're it's still all going to be a part of the package yeah I I guess my final question then is will this cut down in the amount of times we get pizza pizza for you no Cil Kenzie you have any you hav't thoughts from you no I I just want to learn and do a lot of this stuff and I got one question to ask you how often you Bang Your Head on the the table to know all this stuff I don't he L it's Dan's favorite all all of this is again you've heard me say it and I'll say it again when I give my quick up now my quick update on the department um no this is a fantastic city um we have a fantastic city council uh great city manager staff is amazing um this is this is a great organization and uh no I I it's like a big it's like a puzzle and you just try to put it together but it's fun so we give you is does everybody agree to the the new shortened I just want to make sure we give them yeah I appreciate that I would I would be in favor of shortened and I would like to see less much less special meetings this year okay so I I'll I'll do a modified schedule and then share it to and yeah I think are we good with everybody I I don't want to just I might I might do is I might call you and come in a day and just we'll go through it oh absolutely absolutely yeah Dan's awesome all this really means is he's going to get more emails from me out outside of meetings rather than questions at the council so so I'm good with it what I just want to know where he rolls all that money into his [Laughter] pocket all right well thank you and I have one more I didn't even switch the date on that one um Finance update uh first of all I want to thank you all for your your Le leadership um it is uh so important um and um I have felt so welcome since the first day that I ever came to the city um and even though City Council Members have changed um I still feel welcomed um every day when I come into this organization um Finance staff um couldn't do what we do without these individuals um our um Utility Billing coordinator has been in the city for almost 40 years um um does an absolutely excellent job taylor Lily um she will someday be Barb when Barb decides to retire um knows the utility billing inside and out um goes way above um some of the things that you may not be aware of is that um we have some pretty good technology like on the electric side with the meters and some software that we can look at and when they see whether it's a water bill or an electric bill that's higher than it has been in the past they go through and they analyze it and they'll call the resident up and say hey um your water usage is High um do you by chance have a toilet that's running and nine out of 10 times they do um they do an absolutely fabulous job and then um Melissa's the the newest of the of the three that's in there um absolutely customer service very quite spoken individual very intelligent um she is the one you've heard me talk about that is working on her accounting degree um and um part of as I get older my uh Legacy in my career in government is to see her um become an accountant in government um and uh in here with the city of North St Paul um then we have Jackie who does so much um payroll accounts payable um just does an amazing job very very accurate um rely on her very very heavily um Angie um is learning the components of that Jackie does um and then there's myself I just sit with piles on my desk and um thank the stars that I have the staff that I have um they make my life very easy and allow me to do the time um that I need to on some of the other bigger items that are there without a lot of issues um what do we do C payable receivable budgeting Capital assets cash management debt Administration financial analysis financial reporting Investments payroll procurement special assessments and property taxes tax increment financing and utility billing and customer service I have to go quick right uh so I'm going to focus on the utility billing and customer service and part of the reason is because you know that's you know we you generate over $20 million in you know in our utilities um uh but before that what are some of the things we're working on um payroll conversion we gave it one attempt um it didn't work with a vendor um I've got a draft RFP um that hopefully next Monday we hit the streets with um looking for um a payroll system and and hopefully a payroll provider um to do some of the you know the ACs and so forth um and uh we don't have an HR System um so it's really a payroll HR um system that would be a part of it uh we really need to um Implement some sort of purchase order tracking system um to make sure that we're meeting um State statutes um that may be something that would that will come up in our audit um findings this upcoming year um and then security is a a big um issue um for our uh staff uh utility and first of all I want to thank city council for your support on um the glass that is now down on both the community development side and the finance side um and then I'm going to jump ahead here a little bit but I'm going to tie it into security um but uh we need to I've been working with um Brian on both staff redundancy and succession planning I'm not getting any younger I know it's hard to believe but uh need to start looking at some of those um components to make sure we're that this city is in good has a good future and is in good hands moving forward um really kind of kind of working and I I kind of there's a lot of Statistics to kind of show you you know the different bill paying and you can see because we made a big change in um you know uh charging a credit card fee you can see that the customers have shifted how they big time of how they they do things a lot more um Bank drafts now um so they don't get that 2 point two and a qu% um added on um but uh here here's kind of the the interesting piece piece that I want to go on it ties into security since I've got eight minutes to go or less I'll try to wrap it up in five so give everybody a time to break for a little bit but um if you notice on there that on an average we we uh mail out 457 disconnection notices per month uh disconnection notices is basically that you are two complete months behind and the third month has just been issued so you know that we build our utilities for the past month of usage so it's really three months of usage before a disconnection notice goes out that's a that's a lot that's a that's a lot that we're mailing out and then um we end up um you know after those notices go through then we end up um giving a you know there's a call generation that goes out to these individuals and at the end of the day we usually end up with um you know 40 50 that um end up going through the to to be disconnected um we've got to follow the cold winter uh weather rule um that um basically um if your sole um source of heat is electric um you can't completely cut them off um but if they're an apartment and it's not their main source we can cut them off completely if not we can do what we um kind of a a cycle where it's on 30 minutes and off 30 minutes our system will allow us to do that um it's amazing that we have so many great residents here but yet there are a number of them that are nasty um some of the phone calls that uh that staff receive should never ever occur um there's been threatened um we had one a few weeks ago about three weeks ago where um person basically threatened to to cut um the person's throat um over the the phone um so there's a heightened concern um for um my staff and um the glass helps um a great deal uh the other uh piece that we're looking at that I'm talking with Brian on these next two pieces one that we're looking at um and it's been something that had been identified before I came here um the city had gone through an active shooting training at one point in time and there's no act ex exit out of Finance the two exit points bring you back into the hallway um so there's a office that's is unutilized that we're probably going to um look at getting a quote to open a door back there that we'd come out by the fire Bay um you know for that um in addition is that we're looking at and I've I've had a um getting some pricing I've talked to Metro inet I'm getting some prices on just a small device that we would be able to uh record um phone messages um in case that we had you know threatening pieces that we could utilize that to to help our our our police because our police did did respond very well um but that is a huge concern um that um staff has and um like I said before um you know I I can't do what our department I can't and our department can't do without our our staff our staff has done an amazing job and continue to do an amazing job day in and day out um very dedicated individuals um that's kind of where I'm going to leave you at um there's a lot of Statistics if you have any questions um you know let me know um but I'm proud of our our finance department our our staff um uh maybe uh a little bit uh later about a month or so I'll invite a couple of employees here um and we'll do a formal recognition of us receiving a certificate of excellence for our financial statement for 2023 um we have a really nice plaque that we received um it's like about the 37th year that the city's got it but it's nonetheless it's it's impressive and I want to bring um the people that help um that happen um and uh I think bring Barb and and Jackie um are the two big contributors that helped me um get through those yearend processes which I have one more I I've got next week the add are in hopefully for the last time um but uh we're uh we're we've been busy in finance department um love this city um we have great leadership um just want city council to know I appreciate everything that you do thank you Dan appreciate you all right I'll call for adjournment at uh 6:27 so moved so moved council member Norby second second Council member Woods all those in favor say hi hi hi let's take about 5 minutes to refresh and we'll be back