all right well good evening everyone and thank you for joining us we're going to call this public hearing of the economic development committee to order uh tonight we are discussing potential changes to the Department of development's minimum qualifying incentive wage threshold policy currently this policy states that only jobs that pay 15 per hour or more can qualify for city tax incentives and per city code this policy is up for review during tonight's hearing the department of development will summarize their strategy regarding Economic Development and their tax incentive portfolio as well as present data on the pay scales of jobs that presently fall within the various deals within that portfolio the department will also share National Market wage data and will conclude with presentations with a recommendation for the policy moving forward it is my hope that after tonight members of the public Community Advocates and stakeholders will gain an even stronger understanding of how the city of Columbus uses its Economic Development tools to help create high paying jobs and opportunities for Columbus families before continuing on I would like to thank Chris Howe and the rest of the American Floor Source team for allowing us to use their space to hold this hearing out in the community and I really want to underscore you know why we are here today one we always want to make sure that we're getting out in the community outside of of city hall because I think some of our best ideas come from the community but more importantly American Floor Source I think is a shining example of our Economic Development strategy a company that has been in Columbus but now because of the work that we've been doing together in our Economic Development strategy is expanding significantly expanding here in the city of Columbus I would also like to thank my colleague councilmember dornes for joining us this evening as we begin this conversation if you have been following the efforts made by my office uh over this past year you've heard me say this before economic development is about people it's about the jobs our citizens receive that allow them to put food on the table in a roof over their head it's about the benefits they receive that give them access to child care and high quality Health Care it's about the growth we've seen as a city as individuals and families move to Columbus looking for opportunity and community our growth demonstrates the health of our city and the success of our strategies but it also is our biggest pain point in 20 in 2022 to date under my Leadership Council has approved development agreements that will bring over 2 000 jobs 2875 new jobs to our city with a total payroll of 214 million 675 483 dollars and a total capital investment of 912 million 362 136 dollars our Economic Development strategy is working and Columbus has become an interactive market for private investment in a variety of Industries that said I know and this Council knows that with a wage threshold of only 15 an hour we are not guaranteeing that every one of these jobs coming into our community through these deals provide our residents with a living wage a wage suitable to live and work in the city of Columbus with the rise in the cost of costs of living due to our growing housing affordable housing crisis the pandemic inflation International Supply chains and much more now more than ever we need to ensure that folks can do that that they can live in the city in which they work the policy being discussed tonight is a part of that larger goal and that larger vision at this point before we move to the Department of deville I want to look to my colleague to see if there's any opening remarks or statements you can act all right thank you so we're going to move right into our presentation and we have with us this evening Quentin Harris deputy director for jobs and economic development for the Department of development and for the city of Columbus Deputy thank you councilmember Bankston council member dornes um happy to be here with everyone today um we'll start the presentation generally just talking about the Economic Development Division within the department of development talk a little bit about what we do what our mission is and then scroll into some of our activities as it relates to how we conduct our business attraction retention and expansion activities as well as our analysis regarding the minimum qualifying incentive wage rate within the Economic Development Division we have three offices that primarily focuses on job creation capital investment and creating wealth and job opportunities for our residents here in Columbus our office of small business and entrepreneurial development focuses on working with small businesses and entrepreneurs helping them get from ideation until hopefully a viable small business our office of infrastructure investment primarily works with developers and law and large companies that are focused on doing projects here in the city that include some type of capital investment that will have infrastructure needs like water roads sewer or other types of infrastructure uh that we need to help facilitate the project and that group primarily utilizes dollars from the city uh and so that group has uh planners and Engineers that work try to maintain um the city's Capital uh Investments through um whether it's tax increment financing or Capital funding that we are putting towards and supporting projects to make sure it happens on time and on budget to maximize the city's scarce resources and then lastly is our office of business assistance that we're going to primarily focus on uh here today where their primary job is to First retain the businesses that we have here in the city and make sure that they're viable and look to help them expand into their existing Market or new markets so that we maintain our existing tax base and utilize those revenues to provide basic city services for all of our residents uh that group also focuses on business attraction where we are looking to try and attract new companies to the city and the region looking for new employment opportunities um to provide our residents uh in a variety of different uh economics sectors as a philosophy the Departments go around economic development is to attract a broad base of companies that has a diversity in job descriptions as well as job skill levels so that we can make sure that we're creating economic opportunities for our residents that may um have a high school education all the way to our PhD level residents so that they have a viable entry point into the workforce and once Ian can climb the economic ladder to growth and prosperity within that company or acquire skills that are then transferable to take those skills and transfer to another company within the sector that they've acquired those skills within the city or in a similarly situated uh sector where they do not have to go to another city they can actually find those opportunities here within the city of Columbus so in that attraction process we utilize from time to time various Economic Development incentives depending on the trajectory of the project and the location that the company is focusing in on sometimes or most of the times when we are working on economic development projects we are in competition with communities that are within the Columbus region and in the state of Ohio and then there are opportunities that we are competing with companies who are looking nationally and globally at various locales to place their um their expansion projects and so we utilize these Economic Development tools uh being our tax based incentives that's predicated upon the income tax proceeds that those net new jobs pay into the city we provide a portion of those dollars back to the company or we utilize programs like real property tax abatements that we utilize when a company is making a significant capital investment in the city we utilize these tools to do a number of different things we utilize These funds to help equalize the playing field as it relates to maybe deficiencies that we have in our site being an older City sometimes we have projects that we are proposing for development that have uh certain types of contamination that needs to be remediated uh and and then we're often competing against Greenfield sites that are accessible and ready to build immediately and so sometimes we have to provide these Economic Development tools to equalize the playing field from a cost perspective as well as possibly addressing some other deficiencies that then allows the company to take those proceeds over time and invest them back into the project into their employees because typically the way that our incentive toolkit works is the company has to make all of the Investments up front our tools are provided back to the company over time as they perform I.E investing in the capital investment commitments that they've made as we negotiated the project or as the jobs are created as committed to within those capital investment projects as well so as they have performed the department of development will provide those Economic Development incentives over a number of years back to the company to support the Investments that they made up front in support of the project so as we are um going out and proactively working with um a lot of our regional Partners like one Columbus the Columbus Franklin County Finance Authority jobs Ohio at the state level as well as the Ohio Department of development as we are recruiting companies and then trying to attract companies to the region um we are proactively going after projects as well as receiving inquiries from companies as well and as we assess these projects we have established the economic development scorecard by which we look at a number of quantitative and qualitative factors that we assess when we are looking to potentially provide an economic development incentive to a company a number of the quantitative factors that we look at we look at the number of jobs to be created the associated payroll that's associated with the creation of those new jobs the capital investment that will be associated with the project and primarily if they are an existing company looking to grow and expand we also like to look at the number of existing jobs that are there in the associated wages with those existing jobs because we never want to lose our existing tax base because those are the dollars that we are providing current city services after and so we are typically trying to be aggressive and retaining our existing tax base and those companies first and so that's a very important metric that we look at as we are assessing uh the project from a quantitative perspective from a qualitative perspective we look at a number of factors um that quite honestly emanate it from mayor ginther's Equity agenda and tenants that Council have pressed upon development over the prior years of qualitative factors that are very important for us to try and maximize the economic development or the economic opportunities for our resident and making sure that they take home as many dollars as possible in their employment situation and so some of those qualitative factors that we look at is are is the company a Columbus grown and based company um are is the project um located in a targeted or what we call an opportunity neighborhood within the city of Columbus that's that's ripe for investment is the project going to be along a Transit Transit line so that the opportunity for our residents to get to that place of employment is much easier and quite frankly Equitable as it relates to being able to take public transit not having to use their car which is part and parcel to the city's sustainability goals that we have in a number of our sustainability plans we also look at things like will it be a mixed-use development because we want to try and maximize our land and focus on density above just sprawl and so we're looking at mixed use opportunities to try to create places where our residents can work live and play all at the same time and have retail commercial office and residential opportunities all in the same geographical area we also look at things like are the employer looking to hire restored citizens are they looking to provide additional Capital Investments or additional investment commitments to the community like for example if we were working with the bank and they're looking to offer financial literacy offerings to our K-12 institutions and working with some of our disadvantaged communities and making sure that they have financial literacy and understand how to go about planning and saving for the long term those are the type of opportunities that we're looking to partner with a number of the companies that we are looking to partner with and provide Economic Development incentives and then we look at competition uh and and our that entity really in competition of if they're an existing business move their operation to another city or state or country or if there is no competition and they're just looking to expand and grow and that's a significant factor that we look at so as it relates um to some of the opportunity areas that we focus on in the city that may have um historically been disvantaged from an investment perspective next slide please this map is a reflection of some of those areas that if those Capital Investments are made in those communities we are providing extra points within the scorecard because these are areas that we're focusing on making Investments with as it relates to in partnership with companies and certain places from City resources we're looking to make investments in to improve the infrastructure in those areas and create job opportunities where residents can literally walk and have those job opportunities in their Community instead of having to drive far away to other places because then it provides them opportunities to uh be able to get to Primary Care type of opportunities for them and their family access Child Care opportunities closer to where they work which are all ways for our residents to maximize their Economic Development opportunity next slide please other things that we look at which are qualitative factors are what we term enhanced benefits which are more than what we think about when we talk about traditional benefits that companies provide their employees more than Vision dental and or life insurance we're talking about benefits enhanced benefits that at least within our shop we term reduces and employees need to expand their take-home income so things like um companies being offering subsidized Transportation subsidized child care where they may have a child care facility within their building and or provide Financial benefits whether it's upfront or or after from a reimbursement perspective for child care um whether it is student loan debt repayment options um and one of um the things we like to see uh up front when we're working with employers who provide tuition assistance is not reimbursement because typically in those situations an employee has to expand anywhere from you know 1500 to sometimes five or six thousand dollars a semester to go to school for employers who are paying that tuition assistance up front so that the employee is not expending those dollars up front or over time and then waiting for reimbursement later after they receive their grades typically several weeks after the end of a semester the company is actually paying their college tuition up front which then allows them to acquire some type of certification two or four year um degree and be able to Garner more um uh by way of pay and or responsibility within the company once they have secured that degree so these are the type of benefits and I won't go through all that we look at from a qualitative perspective when we're assessing a project is what additional benefits are they providing to the residents what other additional benefits are they providing within the community that makes them good Community Partners as well as helping our residents have more take-home income at the end of the day so from you know I think you know those are the activities um that we're typically working through when we're looking to potentially provide Economic Development incentives to a company and once we have an opportunity to gauge those quantitative and qualitative factors if that project um reaches a certain level that's when the department of development makes the recommendation to council for approval of the incentive offer in a competitive situation for us to try and attract uh and create Capital investments in job creation uh within the city of Columbus generally on average um during the course of a year we are providing economic development incentives to roughly 18 to 24 projects a year which on his face may sound like a lot but we're talking about on average providing one to one and a half or bringing one to one and a half projects to Council on a monthly basis and for the 14th largest city um in this in the country and with a land mass of more than 200 square miles we are very judicious with the incentive offers that we provide but more importantly the projects that we bring to council we think provides a great Economic Development return for the city as well as for the residents if we're able to win that economic development project so um with that General overview of our Economic Development activities and how we get to this point um the qualifying jobs that um will qualify for economic development incentives today must pay a minimum of 15 an hour and that number has increased over a period of time in the mid 2000s that that number was at ten dollars an hour it changed um uh early in the 2010-2011 time frame to 12 an hour and then subsequently changed uh to 15 an hour roughly about three years ago as the market has increased um Columbus has become more competitive from economic uh development perspective and as our residence has needed more from an income perspective we feel as if to provide Economic Development incentives projects and wages need to be at a certain level for us to provide those economic benefits back to uh the companies that we partner with and so this uh hearing is is to assess whether um that 15 an hour minimum qualifying incentive wage rate should increase decrease or stay the same and so um Council um asked us to do an analysis and so um we conducted that analysis over a period of time and and the first data point that we looked at was the five-year historical average of um our Economic Development portfolio um which is comprised of approximately 121 projects that are in our portfolio today and from those projects over a five-year term we have essentially um uh have the numbers that we have uh in front of us it's roughly 18 different next codes that we we've synthesized those projects down within and as you can look at roughly on average from an average hourly rate perspective all but two of our sectors are above twenty dollars an hour as it relates to average hourly pay um of the two uh one which is the next code 81 which is kind of a catch-all um which is roughly 18.99 an hour but the the code that we've highlighted which I think is a great microcosm to kind of take a look at is our warehousing and distribution next code which by sure project you can see is the largest portion of our portfolio is roughly one-fourth of our portfolio projects are within the warehousing and distribution and Logistics space with 27 projects from a job commitment perspective we have 845 that number's a little deceptive from the perspective that typically the majority of these projects when entered into are made with the developer and the developer is typically building the infrastructure and the building up front typically on a speculative basis that we're then able to utilize in the recruitment of companies that are looking at expanding their operations around the country so typically that that number for example in those projects will far exceed the 845 that we hear which is just a estimated average based on square footage when we perform deals just based on prior historical data but as you can see roughly from a net new payroll perspective it has the fourth or fifth largest payroll with roughly 27 million dollars of new payroll being brought into the city but the the number that stands out is roughly it's about the average average uh hourly wage is roughly 16 16 an hour so we saw that number because warehousing and distribution is significant in the Columbus region and the City of Columbus specifically based on our location we have great north south east west access from Interstate 71 and Interstate 70 to go as far south as as Florida North into Canada and east and west to both coasts and so you can also reach about 46 percent of the U.S population within an eight-hour drive from the city of Columbus and so that makes us a great location to do business in and from uh and that's why we have a significant warehousing presence within the city of Columbus but also the Columbus region as a whole and so because of that presence because and I'll talk about it and expand a little bit later is from those warehousing opportunities that we have primarily from a lot of large National companies that look and open up operations here in the city um it provides them a great lens into how Columbus is a really good place to do business they can find employment for a very um economical wage the cost of land is not as excessive as the East or West Coast or down south in places like Texas and the retention of a lot of our employees are a lot higher than some of those places because the cost of living makes it very manageable for people to have a great quality of life here in Columbus versus some of those other places and so from those distribution and Logistics opportunities we have been able to cultivate relationships with a lot of these companies that have then created opportunities for us to leverage other facets of their operation whether it's their back office function I.E their Finance HR um or other type of functions or whether it's a manufacturing component of their business or their headquarters operation we have been able to recruit other lines of business from a lot of those companies and bring them to the region and so for all of those reasons it wanted us it warranted us to take a deeper dive into that specific Nace code and try to understand what's going on in that particular sector and so next slide please so when we took a look into that that specific next code we parse the information by Franklin County warehousing jobs Columbus region job which is the entire Columbus MSA as well as nationally what are the wage rates that are being paid within that specific sector since the city of Columbus is roughly about 73 percent of Franklin County we thought that that was a good representation of Columbus and so that's why we're using uh that data that data set so as you can see and I won't go through each um specific job classification within that next code you can see if you look at the average hourly earnings within Franklin County in the city of Columbus within that particular sector we are very competitive from a wage perspective when you compare us to the not only the Columbus region average but the national average um in all of those sectors um minus the supervisor um job description we exceed every other job classification within the warehousing sector within the Columbus region today um and so from that perspective it it requires us to look at what is the national average and and and also look when we're looking to set our wages that we also have to be cognizant of the sectors that we are looking to recruit and make sure that our policies are are competitive with those respective sectors to make sure that we're competitive for future business attraction opportunities and I would say at least in this particular sector I think we have actually been pushing the market to be more competitive from a wage perspective and move those wages closer to I believe um what we would term a livable wage in those sectors but typically these are your entry-level jobs they are lower skilled simply minus the top two job classifications which typically requires either a significant job experience or some type of degree from a supervisory perspective or typically your industrial truck or tractor operators have some type of certification to operate that those Vehicles which allows you to Garner a higher wage rate and so from that perspective I think we are very competitive as a region um with the national average however once again I think our portfolio data was a five-year look back and so the 1616 an hour was a five-year look back at our warehousing and distribution um wage rate specifically but also the entire portfolio and so when we looked at this data this is current data over the last two years in this particular space and so what we wanted to do is to actually look at existing job opportunities within the warehousing space that are being offered today and what are those jobs being offered for in the warehousing and distribution space in the Columbus region and looking at data from emsi and burning glass there were opportunities in the Market at 1829 which was a starting wage within the warehousing and distribution space so we can see that the within the past two years or so um the wages in this area is moving north um and it has over two dollars over the last few years and we believe it will continue to increase just because of the needs of that particular Market to move goods and services not only around the state and the country but around the globe with our moves to remote work and having foreign employees working remotely as well as people quite honestly order more from their homes and not going out into the marketplace to actually buy Goods they're doing it um online and so that's increasing the activity as well as the wages in that particular space next slide please so um from a recommendation perspective the department of development recommends that that Columbus city council consider an increase of the minimum qualifying incentive wage rate from fifteen dollars an hour to a rate somewhere between 1850 and 20 dollars an hour in order for a company to qualify for economic development uh incentive we think just based on the trajectory of the market what our current data is telling us as well as moving our minimum qualifying incentive wage rate closer to living wage we believe the data supports that move I will caveat that I don't think specifically that the distribution Logistics space is quite there and as you'll see in the next slide it possibly May I'll say challenge us from a attraction perspective next slide please it May challenge us in being competitive in that particular sector going forward because right now those jobs are going for roughly anywhere from 18 to 19 dollars an hour but it's a it's an interesting sector because typically in that particular sector there's anywhere from 10 to 20 percent turnover on an annual basis and so typically those companies are incentivizing their employees from a retention perspective to stick around so typically in those sectors and I will include call center operations in that space as well typically after a three you you start at a by entry level wage which is typically for example the 1829 an hour and then after three or six months you receive a incremental increase that's really based on retention and then typically between that six and 12 month period you receive another bump in pay which typically then brings you closer to the to the wage frame that we've identified of 1850 to 20 an hour um which there are projects there are jobs today within a number of the projects that we recruit where a portion of those jobs don't qualify because they don't pay 15 an hour um and if during that incentive term that job increases in pay and qualifies they will count for those subsequent years and so we may have those type of opportunities that occur within jobs that we go after in this particular sector but once again I think this data is an opportunity for Council to view and review and understand specifically how different sectors operate and how for us because warehousing is one of the sectors that we are most active in today and that provides a lot of jobs and payroll that it is you know our change in policy could affect our attraction activities in that space and it's just something um consider and to be aware of as it relates to the data the historical data as well as the current data that we've provided next slide please so once again I thank you for the opportunity to present to you and I am open for any questions that you or the audience may have all right well thank you deputy director Harris that was I think very insightful and very in-depth um so the way the hearing will we're going forward so for those that are present and for those that are viewing online the council members will ask questions and then we'll open it up to the public for any kind of remarks or questions that you may have so if you are online please feel free to use the chat function we have folks watching so we want to make sure that we get your answers to your questions or any feedback that you may have and make sure that we have that for the record I'll start off with a couple questions in council member doors you just chime in whenever you you want to one I want to just clarify this policy deputy director that the policy only affects salaries of jobs created or maintained by approved tax incentive agreements with a company correct that is correct um this minimum qualifying wage rate only applies to um the city's incentive programs that we provide companies in a competitive attraction process it does not affect any other policy or program uh within the city as it relates to a minimum qualifying wage rate got it so that that just to clarify that that policy does not affect the wages of contractors or current city employees and folks that do business with the city correct it does not got it and then you actually answer my one of my questions during the presentation was how many deals do we do on average per year and that was roughly between 18 and 24 but I think the bigger question is because I think there's a a a a misconception that anything that comes before us is accepted about how many deals would you say are either given to us or that we go after and see that we're either turning down because the scorecard doesn't meet that qualification or that it just doesn't make sense for us um the number of projects that we see varies from year to year um but however I would say from projects that we proactively recruit and from projects that are provided to us from various Partners like one Columbus jobs Ohio the Ohio Department of development or that comes in from site selection Consultants we probably see uh within the city of Columbus roughly a hundred or more opportunities for projects we probably seriously consider whether we win those projects or lose them um roughly 50 of those so roughly about 50 percent of those projects meet criteria of projects that we would really want to have and win within the city um and then we probably win um anywhere from 20 to 25 of those projects uh a year which may not sound like a lot but in the economic development field that's actually a pretty good percentage from a recruitment and attraction perspective right and just to clarify you know getting one of these incentives doesn't preclude you from doing business in the city of Columbus I mean there are projects that I see going up all the time around the city that do not have any type of incentive tied to it and so I just want to make sure that we level set and understand that Columbus is a great place to do business absolutely it is um and we do get folks that just naturally come here but there are key Industries uh and and key things that we want to make sure that we're competitive in so can you talk about what some of those Industries are that we have a gappian or where we see competition that we can actually compete that we want to attract and actually and actually have here so I'm gonna go back and and reference a point that you made earlier and then I'll I'll answer that question um all of the companies that we interact with in an attraction um opportunity for attraction opportunities um they all aren't looking for economic development incentives and sometimes we're not offering Economic Development incentives to that project sometimes we're just providing techno technical or regulatory types of assistance where we are helping that business establish itself in the region or we're helping that business with a specific infrastructure need that the city has purview over certain things from a regulatory perspective that may help them realize that project in the city and so all the businesses that we're working with our goal is not to provide them with economic development incentive it's it's to try to create an environment that allows a business to move here on its own um and without many needs but to your point there are certain sectors that have certain needs where we have to equalize the playing field for a number of reasons as I say earlier in my comments sometimes there may be site deficiencies that we have to provide some economic development assistance to because that site has more cost than another site in another city or state and so to make that playing field level we may have to provide for example a real property tax abatement to a site that needs to be cleaned and so it may cost a million dollars to clean this Brownfield site whereas in that competing state it may not cost them anything because it's a green field it's only been a farm and so it's ready to be built on today and so typically what our goal is is just to equalize our site to the competing site and then have um all the other great Investments that we've made in the city speak for itself great places great places to live all of those things and so there are on the flip side other sectors where we do not have a foothold in and so for example I'll use the Intel project so we do not have any semiconductor manufacturers or a significant presence within the city of Columbus for example or quite honestly many assets within that sector within the Columbus region and so for that project we had as a region to um uh be very aggressive in our attraction map activity um that project ultimately landed in the city of New Albany which is adjacent to us but we are partnering with them because they needed our assistance to provide water and sewer capacity um to that project and so we're very familiar uh with that particular project and so to attract that company here a we needed to have some fiscal assets where we had to put certain things on the table but that industry will be will follow a large Prime like Intel and it will create a industry that quite honestly wasn't on our next code that isn't here today there will be another line item on that chart in two years from now because some of those companies that will follow Intel to come to the region will locate their business somewhere within the city of Columbus so we'll have a New Mexico that will support that specific sector and so we need to make certain Investments ourselves or in companies to help recruit that sector to the city because typically companies follow other companies within that space because typically that means there are assets that are there in place there are other companies that are doing the same things that they're doing and that typically means I can do it there too and you have human capital right you have the workforce there that you can recruit from that are already doing the job today so hopefully I answered your question yeah yeah and I just want to to underscore something because this comes up and we have to think I think regionally when it comes to this but also you know our purview as council members and as a department of development is to think about Columbus proper and our residents and so although something that comes to the region may be good for Columbus there's an indirect benefit there right and so make sure that we are balancing that and being competitive so as those Industries come they're located in the city of Columbus so that we receive that income tax which is so critical to the services that we provide councilmember doors I'm opening up for you if you have any uh questions sure uh thank you councilmember Banks and I appreciate you holding the hearing tonight and I think um this subject was one of the first that we sort of started talking about when you first joined Council and took over the economic development committee so I appreciate you hosting this hearing and having us here tonight so uh deputy director I have a couple of questions for you some are more philosophical and some are sort of more down in the weeds and I want to get back to sort of that scorecard that you sort of listed for for residents earlier and um wages is one of you know many different things on that scorecard right um I you know we just want to sort of ask the broad question when we think about incentivizing individual jobs in the city of Columbus from a philosophical standpoint and I think councilmember Bankston has brought this up a number of times and his remarks already tonight but it's about the sort of holistic aspect of the job for my view you know one of the things that I ask about every time you know a incentive remake comes from your office to ours is what are the wages and what are the benefits right so you know can you just talk a little bit about the Department's view of how we're evaluating that scorecard to the point where a deal makes sense to move forward when we think about how holistically that supports a worker that then supports a family that then supports income tax for the city so I mean I think ultimately the scorecard you know we structure it so that based on every um um data point that's checked um the project receives more weight based on um simplistically the more checks that have right and those checks are related to a lot of those qualitative and quantitative factors right because that scorecard is a reflection of we believe the city's priority around equity and opportunity and so the more checks that are um are checked on the list that means this project reflects the priorities of the city and the projects that don't um don't and so typically you spend your money and your resources supporting Endeavors that reflects your priorities and so that's the way we have approached the scorecard through those quantitative and qualitative factors or we make sure that the project is supporting all the tenants that we want as it relates to the investment that the company is looking to make and the return that the city will get as it relates to the tax revenue that will be provided based on the incentives that will be provided and then we look at all of the qualitative factors and making sure that our resident is getting a good hourly wage that the company is the type of company that not only is looking to make um revenue for their shareholders we want to also make sure that they are the type of companies who are looking to value and take care of their employees who typically are the residents of the city of Columbus and so having those additional benefits that they're providing their residents once again I think is reflective of allowing them to take more of their take-home hourly pay home but it also provides a better environment where quite honestly our residents are healthier because they have less things to worry about and can provide more to their families when they leave work and go home and then I think lastly um the scorecard provides a provides a rubric that we can consistently refer to as it relates to whether I'm here or not the priorities of the city and we can continue to follow those tenants and make sure that the priorities regardless of who's assessing the projects are reflective of the administrations and councils tenants of what we want to see when we partner and provide our scarce resources to companies and making sure that we're getting in a career returned so that we can provide all those city services that we were talking about thank you deputy director I want to sort of dive into this I think one of the things when we talk about residents is that you know I think that there is you know some level of frustration anytime you're talking about economic incentives as it relates to private businesses right um you know we can't ignore that whether it's you know Regional uh competition whether or not that's you know suburbs right outside 270 or those within Ohio or across the Midwest you know also offer you know incentives you know um so we live with the reality of the world that we we meet it in right so when we think about a lot of our our philosophy around um you know incentivizing you know good paying careers to be here in central Ohio obviously we measure ourselves against other cities other regions when we talk about from a wage threshold standpoint um you know looking at you know other other cities um other regions how do we stack up at today and how would this potential recommendation from an 1850 to 20 an hour sort of Stack Up Against that so we didn't necessarily conduct an analysis as it relates to how that particular metric um measures up to a number of our other communities um but anecdotally definitely we are aware that there are a lot of communities that do not have a minimum qualifying wage rate um um certain communities put priorities and preferences on certain things there are certain communities that recruit certain sectors only and will only incentivize certain sectors whether it's you know biomedical or Finance insurance and so they focused on having certain job categories within their community and then there are some communities who do look at um the minimum average wage and they clarify their um incentive policy along those lines um so I guess in short there is um no um one standard that a lot of communities judge their incentive portfolio by I think going back to a statement that council member Bankston said around a lot of communities provide incentives based on the needs of the community and you know that varies from a smaller City that may want to see certain types of investment and so they incentivize those specific Investments to larger cities like Columbus that are very large as it relates to land mass and our specific policy around creating a diversity of jobs so that like some communities for example who only recruit you know scientific or finance and banking you have to have a certain educational level to get some of those those opportunities and so we don't want our residents to have to drive 20 30 miles away to another Community to have those opportunities as long as those opportunities provide a living wage for them to be successful here that those are the type of companies and the broad diversity of sectors that we recruit as economic development so fair to say because there's not sort of an existing standard you know across the economic development sphere we know through jobs Ohio um other economic development organizations not only here in Ohio but across the country that you and others you know network with and that kind of thing the ability for for Council and the administration to sit down and say you know here's online if you don't meet that we're we're not going to have a conversation with you that gives us an opportunity here in Columbus really to say you know this is the minimum threshold and the reason we're coming at this minimum threshold is is a data-driven point about uh what it costs for an individual to be able to afford to live in Columbus and I think that's something that's really important I think from a council standpoint I think from an administration's standpoint to really point out the residents is that um the whatever number we we land on here today so we're at 15 based on the work of people that were you know working on this years ago um that that is an important thing for us as a community to really draw a line here and say based on how we see the Community growing this is where we need to be yes um so when you look at that and again I'm I'm going to deal with whole numbers here because he started you know 1850 you're going to lose my my math here pretty quick um but if we go from 15 to 20 um that represents you know over a 30 increase when you look at sort of the data points that you've provided here tonight obviously the logistics and warehousing sector stands out as one in which um you know right now it is not there but I think one of the comments you made earlier uh I I think is fairly poignant on on this is that um you know our policy has help to move that sector in the past now obviously with the inflationary pressures that have happened over the past two and a half years that has also also contributed it greatly um but from you know you're a guy who's been doing this work for a while when you saw initially we go from from 12 to 15 have you seen consistently companies following that line so a sector that may have not been paying that before um get get to it or closer after we've drawn that line and said here's a minimum threshold um again just asking as somebody who's done this work here in our community for a while yes I you know I think to be very fair and candid I've seen it go both ways I've seen companies who have said you know thank you this is you know um our wage rate and and we're going to assess other opportunities and then we have seen companies who have made the adjustments based on our policy um so that's definitely the case I think you know we are one of um the select communities who do have a um a line by which we tell companies you have to meet the parameters of this line in order to qualify for our incentives and I think at the end of the day we understand that policy and that's around a lot of the other quantitative and qualitative factors that we assess that if you don't meet certain parameters I think we are okay with missing out on some opportunities because the return won't be enough for our residents for us to make those types of Investments and I think having this minimum qualifying wage rate which I will say um a number of years ago I was hesitant uh to uh support personally when it was put in um over time I reflected and it is definitely a bar because quite honestly it provides standards and it provides standards to the marketplace that you know we really assess um the importance of our resources that we're looking to partner with you on a project and that we have certain standards that you have to meet and that we're willing to partner with you on and if not we're okay with missing out on some opportunities and in a lot of communities don't do that and then there's a lot of communities that quite honestly aren't in a position to do that and as council member Baston said at the beginning of his remarks we're in a position where we are able to tell the marketplace that um now that's always a fine line but I think we have still been competitive um in our attraction of a number of projects even with these standards um and hopefully the market is open to whatever number uh Council ends up with that we remain competitive in the marketplace as well so um this is maybe I think there's a question in here I don't think it's just a statement I think there actually is a question in here but when you talk about like the the two different like data points here right so we have when you look at sort of the the current deals that we have done um looking at the wages where they're at so clearly for many of the industries we can say hey they're at well over 20 an hour they've overperformed that's great so you know this kind of change is not really going to affect that industry whatsoever even though you know that's a past deal so any any change right now would not be retroactive would be sort of uh again New Deals moving forward but again based on the past history we're not looking at um there being any you know significant disruption there but the other data point that I think is important for us just to say out loud and assuming this is one of the things that the department has looked at is you know what does it cost for folks to live in central Ohio obviously that's a very different thing now um you know three years ago compared to today especially when you you factor in the inflationary pressures where we're at now so just to sort of ask the question out loud not only is this recommendation a question of what we think that we've seen based upon the wage growth of the industries that we've already incentivized so we can you know move folks forward based on where folks are yet but also an evaluation of what does it cost for people to live in central Ohio is it fair to say the recommendations based upon basically a view of those two things yes wholeheartedly I mean you know as the Years occur um and the market dynamics change um and quite honestly the labor force evolves um the demand changes and so over time as we've seen we have slowly [Music] move that number North to reflect the changes in our Marketplace um fortunately for the city of Columbus we have been very fortunate since the mid-2000s and we've had a few economic lulls but overall we have been able to continue to expand our economy and add more companies and opportunities which then allows us to continue to advance that number as you're you're articulating we don't foresee that market um changing much with the level of activity that you know my group sees on a weekly and monthly basis that number uh the number of projects that we're seeing continue uh to come in the door and so from that perspective we're in a position like some other markets across the country to be able to set policies like this and be able to provide more opportunities to our residents which ultimately is what we're trying to do um just the the balance act that we as you know development officials try to do is to make sure that we balance those numbers so that we can bring in uh so that we will win a certain number of projects so that we can continue to provide a certain level of basic city services for our residents that they've come to to expect thank you last and I think this is absolutely more of a statement but I want you to chime in on this because when we talk about that scorecard about capital investment into a project I think one of the things that it's very easy for for folks to sort of gloss over very quickly so when we're talking about incentivizing you know individual jobs based upon the end use of the project right um that doesn't talk about the necessarily the income tax generation from the capital investment so you know when you're talking about you know 100 million dollars for a data center or otherwise you're talking about you know two and a half percent of the income tax of the folks building that project and some of those you know Capital uh Investments are in tens of hundreds of millions of dollars and that is captured outside of these agreements so when we talk about we're going to incentivize the creation of these jobs it meets our standards this is the income tax so you're keeping the school district and other other institutions whole um there is another additional um you know Revenue Source in the city because of that capital investment of you know hun yeah dozens if not hundreds of folks constructing that at that two and a half two and a half percent return to the city so when we talk about holistically we've got the scorecard from your Vantage Point of what the deal does but I think it's important for us to sit back and say from a capital investment standpoint that that is that is an additional return on top of the jobs that are created there that is correct so I'll bring up a couple different um other Revenue points um as you articulate it you know typically when we're working with companies and they are creating new infrastructure or um or working to improve or expand on existing infrastructure there's a construction period that occurs and we're hiring you know tens to hundreds of jobs that are making that project happen in the city which are jobs we don't capture for purposes of our incentive reporting they are numbers we capture for purposes of Revenue sharing with the school district per Ohio law that we have to do but those are jobs that occur all the time um that are providing economic benefit and stability to our residents and then as you stated they are the real property tax um the real property taxes that we're receiving from the project as well the city um essentially utilizes [Music] um or the city's annual budget utilizes I think about 74 percent of the city's annual budget is based off of income tax receipts um real property taxes the city gets roughly 4.3 to 4.8 percent of that which is a significant Revenue stream when you're talking about projects that are tens and hundreds of millions of dollars um from an assessed perspective but those Investments are going to support our Levy agencies are going to support our school districts and the county as well which provides them Revenue that wouldn't have been there if we hadn't been successful in our attraction activities and so those activities matter and that Revenue matters as well and what we're doing and we primarily as the city or Elise our shop we really focus in on income taxes um but there are real property taxes and there are other ancillary benefits um that employees as well as the community also receives in some of our projects as well because we also try to work with companies when we're providing economic development incentives who are looking to be good Community Partners and are looking to provide assistance and become part and parcel with the community and neighborhood that they're locating in and so we have companies who come in and look to help communities expand their tree canopy and plant trees and there are other companies that come in and provide financial literacy services to the neighborhood school district and other ancillary benefits and so those are things that we look at and we talk with companies about on an annual basis that provides benefits not only to the city but our residents and our neighborhoods as well the question I have right now thank you thank you Debbie Durkin thank you councilmember doors and actually I think from that question you mentioned something I think sometimes times it gets overlooked and if you can give us a little short snippet on it you said Revenue sharing and revenue sharing that goes back to our school district and so part of our Economic Development strategy around that income tax does benefit our our schools and other agencies so can you talk about that Revenue sharing portion really quickly and then also on top of that I think talking about that real that capital investment because that's more of the long-term uh strategy there and I know that there's individual projects and you we've talked about one in particular where the property value sitting empty right is only a couple hundred bucks but now it's met it's 15-year Mark and now it's producing over 400 000 for our school so if you can just talk about the revenue sharing in our long-term strategy from the capital investment standpoint definitely so from a revenue sharing perspective when we utilize um are real property tax abatement programs specifically which is the Enterprise Zone or a community a revitalization area abatement per Ohio law communities have to revenue share with the school district when the income tax the net new income taxes generated by the project exceeds one million dollars in new income taxes to that community and so typically when we are providing a real property tax abatement typically it's at a percentage of 10 years and 75 percent that's our standard abatement policy per the Ohio Revised Code uh an abatement can be as much as a hundred percent for up to 15 years um but Columbus's policy is traditionally 10 years 75 percent and so when we provide a a real property tax abatement to a company a few things happen when that payroll is over a million dollars for the term of that abatement typically 10 years on an annual basis anything that is generated over a million dollars from income tax perspective the city shares with the school district 50 50. so if five million dollars is created in income tax from the four million dollars the city's getting 2 million and this district is getting two million dollars on an annual basis and every year as that income tax total increase typically as it does that Revenue split increases every year and provided to the school district and that's in consideration of them foregoing some of the real property taxes that they would have received if the abatement wasn't in place however based on our current policy so they're receiving the revenue share but they're also receiving the amount of of real property taxes that they receive we're receiving the day before the project was built so whatever they were receiving before that project was put in place they're still receiving and then they're receiving 25 since we're only providing a 75 percent real property tax abatement to the company they're only receiving 78 a benefit of 75 of that value the school districts are getting that 25 on an annual basis of whatever that new project is generating from a real property tax perspective so that's three revenue streams whatever it was getting before the project happened the income tax revenue share and then that incremental increase based on that new project so they're getting three revenue streams whereas before that project they were only getting the one and then at the Terminus of that agreement year 11 then they'll be getting a hundred percent of what they would be getting based on the value of that project generating from a real property tax perspective and so the way we term it is you know the city and the school district are making long-term Investments together and we're partnering we're both um you know giving up Revenue um to each other and to um the company for the greater good of having a more viable City with more Capital Investments and structures in it that generate more real property tax as well as income tax to not only the city but the school district county and all the levy agencies to provide all the services that we would want to see on an annual basis and then the second part of your question if you can remind me what it was yeah you hit on it but just the example that I'm always fascinated by and there was a particular site and you don't have to name the site in particular but that difference in Revenue after the deal has reached its 10 or 15 year mark and how much is generating both in Real Property Tax and income tax on a parcel that was once taken definitely so you know as I just mentioned that 75 percent that was going to the company to help them to help reimburse a portion of the investment that they made uh in that project now at the year 11 as well we call it now the school district and all of the the county the city and the levy agencies are now all getting a hundred percent of that Revenue which is really important because once again I think we all are making um short-term sacrifices to to have a more of a windfall at the end of that project period because if we're not able to ever win that project you're only going to be receiving that number you were receiving day one right and so with that investment that we all are making hopefully the goal is at year 11 we all are receiving significantly more Revenue based on the invest City and the company has made over the long term and just want to underscore that they have a time limit this is not in pertuity that they get this incentive it is for a certain period of time we do have two questions online I want to make sure that we get them a Miss Susan Fawcett is watching with us via YouTube so thank you Miss Susan for tuning in she has two questions here one is that she says lower skilled jobs were mentioned um earlier and I think that was around the warehousing piece and her question is if we offer incentives to bring lower skilled jobs who is filling the financial gap when we bring low-skilled jobs to Columbus trying to understand who feels the gaps yeah I think our question is more around you know if we are incentivizing lower skilled jobs to the to the region then who picks up that that Gap in wages or I mean you know who's filling that uh the Gap in the in the community which would be of course a multitude of Partners in the safety net that we have in place so understood and hopefully I'm answering your questions um your question um accurately I think from that perspective and I think when we talk about lower skill jobs we aren't really saying low paying jobs per se um folks you know a certain segment of our community would argue that um fifteen dollars an hour is a a decent wage in order for a person um to live on um it's you know we can have discussions on a family versus a person because roughly someone who is making fifteen dollars an hour roughly makes about 31 000 um two hundred dollars uh a year and that you know anywhere between that and twenty dollars an hour that person is roughly making forty one thousand and six hundred dollars a year between that 15 and 20 an hour um uh in that sphere there so I mean ultimately I think what we are talking about is creating an opportunity that once again still have to fit between um the 15 where it is currently and at least development's recommendation of 1850 to 20 an hour so I'm just going to use have to fit in between that 15 and 20 dollars an hour they still have to pay well but from a skilled perspective we want to create opportunities because um everyone isn't going to go to college and a large number of the jobs you can go look on any job board there is out there a lot of those jobs require a four-year degree what we want to also create opportunities for our residents are individuals who choose not to go to school or to a two or four or two or four year institution of Higher Learning but choose to go the technical route or choose to Garner certifications that quite honestly in the long run allows them to potentially make just as much as a student that makes or that has a four-year degree but they don't have the student debt behind them that some of those individuals will have and they actually have more disposable income that are you know that 30 percent isn't going towards their college loan repayment for example and so we're trying to create low skill opportunities because hopefully what we want to see is those individuals to get a job opportunity with one of these organizations and then have that company train up whether it's certification whether it's providing them tuition assistance to get a two-year degree or four-year degree within that company and then be able to leverage that opportunity and make more dollars and so that's our ultimate goal and so having multiple sectors and job opportunities for our residents at multiple places on the economical ladder as part of our development philosophy if I can just add deputy director in some of these discussions that councilmember Banks and I have had I think gets directly to the the question from the the woman um Miss Susan online is the question of um yeah what does it cost to live here right so I think her her question is about hey if we have a low wage low-skilled job the social safety net has to pick up the the balance of you know helping that that individual and family pay for housing and groceries and transportation and all those things they need to be stable right so I but I think that gets at the the Crux of why we're here today is the question of what is the what is the wage that we can comfortably say that if an individual gets that job under one of these agreements that we don't have to worry about them relying upon the social safety net in order to um you know have the stability of their family needs so you know I I look a lot at the affordable housing Alliance here in Columbus what they have pegged that folks need to make in order to you know afford of you know good housing in our community and I think ultimately that's what the question here is is that we don't want to use our incentive policies to incentive jobs that then create opportunities for folks to have to rely upon some other type of subsidy I think that's also one of the reasons why when you mention early not every Community has this kind of threshold in place why I'm you know I'm glad that we have these kind of discussions to make sure we're not accidentally putting people in a position in which they are um facing you know more poverty within their family and their Community as a direct result of that employer not holding up their end of the bargain while they're receiving a public subsidy certainly we have employers that you know don't pay a living wage in Columbus and we wish they would but that's not what you know this conversation is about so I think you know from our advantage point this is a tool in the toolbox of creating more career opportunities that ensure that folks don't have to rely upon those those that social safety net yes yeah and I think to councilmember Dorn's it's kind of our larger philosophy at Council the wage is only one part of living in the city right it's also about child care costs it's about Transportation costs uh it's about affordable housing and then think that this Council uh sees that and sees that picture holistically so we're talking about the job and the wage now but we're also under you know council president pro tems leadership investing more in child care so we can lower the child care costs thanks to you we're tackling things like wage stiff to make sure folks are getting uh paid so it's really a holistic conversation the wage is just one piece of it so thank you Ms Susan and then lastly Miss Susan had another question how do you prevent the minimum rates uh from artificially increasing the value of the job which can lead to inflation good question um Miss Susan is good yes um well typically those you know the the market sets the wage right um and so in one sense our number is predicated upon a lot of Market data so we aren't unilaterally and or arbitrarily um setting a wage and and hope that the market reaches or meets it um we're taking data from the market I.E The Five-Year analysis of our portfolio seeing what all of those sectors are paying their employees historically and then we're looking at current data and we're seeing what the market is paying now and then as council member Doran said we're looking at other data sets like what it takes for um an individual to be able to um afford housing as well as eat and have dollars to transport themselves where they need to based on whether you're a single individual have one child two child or three children um those are the data sets that we're looking at and all of those data points together are helping us get to this minimum qualifying incentive wage rate to be able to qualify for an incentive through one of the city's incentive programs if you are a company looking to expand or locate their operations here in the city of Columbus all right thank you uh deputy director and as we wrap up councilmember doors any further comments or questions from you as we close uh just again thanks to chair Bankston and deputy director for being here tonight I think um the focus should be on how we ended this about if if we have to be in a position to provide incentives um because of the competition that exists within the the economic development Marketplace how do we focus that on building a you know a well-paying careers for folks I think to your point deputy director at all different types of Industries to make sure that residents that can enter into a you know career that can support their families and move up within their lives to have that kind of stability that we we know they need and want and that's how we build you know a stronger Columbus together so uh just appreciate the conversation here and I appreciate the recommendation from the department and look forward to under councilman Benson leadership reviewing that recommendation and ultimately moving so looking forward to council here soon uh thank you thank you uh councilmember dorans um and this was a great robust conversation um and I think that our goal here in the end of the day the policy is to review the wage but I think tied to that wage more importantly what I wanted to make sure that the public came across what is what is our values as a community how do we utilize Economic Development tools that we have and what does that look like oftentimes I think we see these things come up at Council meetings but don't understand how they got there what the work was done behind the scenes so hopefully this shedded some some light on that I just want to talk next steps and then we'll we'll close out so we've heard the recommendation from the Department of development to increase that wage between 1850 to 20 it is now on Council to assess that and we as a council will come up with our final recommendations and passage of that we are planning to have a second hearing on this topic in mid-october to hear thoughts from stakeholders industry experts and constituents on the info provided tonight and the direction that would that would like Council to take with updating this policy so in between that second uh uh public hearing that we will have in mid-october my office and other Council offices will meet with stakeholders and engage with them to gather more data have those presentations and want to hear from the community and their reaction to this recommendation I would like to thank director Mike Stevens deputy director Quinton Harris and Jennifer fenning and the rest of the great team at the department of neighborhoods for putting together this info for this hearing please keep an eye out for an announcement from my office regarding the date and time and location of this the second hearing coming soon and we are looking forward to continue this robust conversation thank you all again for being here tonight and for tuning in with this and that concludes our hearing