uh city council meeting for December 6th if we could all stand for the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the plague of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice I'd like to welcome everyone uh Jenny if you take the role councilmember Thorson councilmember Peterson here councilmember Wong here council member Cole here mayor Furlong here Quorum is present at this time a motion to adopt the agenda so moved your honored by councilmember Peterson second second council member Thorson uh any discussion not all is in favor signify by saying aye aye oppose the motion carries we don't have uh any presentations at this time we have the consent agenda and I'll turn it over to city manager frandel thank you bear um so on the consent agenda is a the November 15 2022 regular meeting minutes uh November 15th 2022 Workshop minutes General claims of one million three hundred and sixty eight thousand nine hundred one dollars and seventy seven cents uh HRA claimed two thousand five hundred nineteen dollars and seventy seven cents 2023 city council meeting calendar 2023 score Grant fund application approval 2023 annual polling place designations resolution approving acceptance of donations received through October or in October of 2022. uh 2022 annual review of attendance of boards and commission members towards zero death Grant agreement uh K is the electric Department purchase of three three-phase fuse cabinets and then electric Department purchase of three 1800 foot reels of 500 MCM aluminum high voltage cable at this time if a council member would like to pull one of the items they can do so at this time Thorson e and I he and I correct anybody else so he and I will be G and H under the city business and action items uh motion to adopt the consent agenda it's all moved by council member Cole it's taken by council member Wong any discussion if not all those in favor signify by saying aye aye opposed the motion carries this time the meeting is open the public they do have a few people uh first one is John Schmall and if we can keep the uh comments limit to three minutes is that better [Music] what's that it's better when it's off thank you John welcome well is this on or is yours on mine's on it's on okay uh I'm going to say that this is electric bill number two and after what I spoke at the last meeting about the problem that was existed um I became aware of through what Dan provided that the bill there were eighteen hundred and seventy four residents that received a notification that they had not paid their last electric bill plus the fact that if they did not take care of it they'd have their electricity turned off so it wasn't just a four people uh as Dan had brought up three people who called in and me who read the bill actually read the bill so uh I was looking for some kind of notification to the populace that there was a problem with their bill and they should and this is what it is but they should ignore it and the most uh earliest that could be was the newsletter that we get just a little notification there nope nope we don't admit we make any mistakes we don't do anything to say hey we might have screwed up would you please you know kind of ignore it so I can't believe that that the city is so enamored with saying that we never make any mistakes that they couldn't just notify the people uh the second item is that uh in Reading as I always do the agenda and this cortisol in here that says you can't speak on subjects at this time that are on the agenda well that's why we're here is to deal with the agenda and it we can't talk about them is that correct I have not disallowed anyone to talk well not talk about the agenda uh City attorney I don't know if that's a true statement or not but I've never not allowed anyone well then they'll put it in there don't put it there if you're not going to allow it because some of us read it and say oh so it's completely up to the council's discretion John during a public hearing of course they have to take public comment beyond that what the open meeting well my mic is on I can speak louder if you'd like um the uh open meeting law says that they have to allow public to attend but it does not guarantee participation so I think it is up to the Council on items other than public hearing whether they allow you to speak or not so that is up to the council's prerogative and I've never disallowed it okay but you must be warned that you might be wasting your time because it says you cannot speak on any item that is on the agenda okay so you get to the point of coming up here and saying I'd like to speak to something on a you can't bye bye and that's just the way it is nope we'll take note yup thank you thank you uh Dave Nelson Dave can you hear me [Music] thank you I don't know what do we know what's going on Carrie or okay okay sorry okay that's fine um I only have three questions uh I asked this before but I never got an answer is this building paid for is it done we don't have no more uh when did you ask did you ask me or I okay I assume the building is close to being paid for but I don't know that answer I don't think so okay and the public works is not paid for I'm taking okay what about uh Taj Mahal the Taj Mahal uh the old Community Center are we still paying on that [Music] a dead dinosaur where are you going with this I I think we're I think we're done paying with paying for that okay but we're still paying on this building and Public Works yep okay that was my question because uh people ask me and I says I don't have no idea this is a first answer I got saying that they're not paid for do you know how many years yet we have to pay on this roughly David I don't have that in front of me we okay I I appreciate it because I apologize because I don't I just don't have that information in front of me it it was just a question mark that I'm I'm throwing out there sure but I mean the sooner we get this paid for maybe our taxes will come down too okay okay thank you David [Music] mayor to answer those questions everything is paid for except for the city's Public Works facility and in the truth and Taxation presentation with the taxation presentation there is a slide in there that shows what our debt levies are and what the purposes of those debts are and the only one that still has something is um the the new City Public Works so just the Public Works building and the final pay on that will be in 2025. and I got Glenn welcome Glenn and Caitlin yes I hope as soon as we got there we go thank you getting better good evening everyone Hi technology I can't believe I can't come to more of these uh uh so we're just here because we we're not gonna we're we have conflict of schedule in two weeks so we just want to come down and thank all you guys for you know last few years has been tough on everybody and so I just want to thank you for all your hard work and especially I want to thank my mom uh Council Peter uh council member Peterson um uh I know you've put in a lot of work I know me Eric and Ryan like to tease you a lot especially he was like upcoming holidays on on your activity in City politics but I know how hard you work and I know how much effort you put in and so me and Caitlin just want to say uh uh congratulations and uh um yeah and so um we have a small gift for you sorry we don't forget for everybody else but we have one for uh my mom and so she's gonna she's gonna explain about her so I have a card for you and it says Grandma congrats on 12 years of City service and I can't wait to meet you in the early summer of 2023. oh totally surprised that's awesome take a picture get a picture it's a good one it's a good one well I think that was the best WWE have flash cards or something you know Grandma congratulations that's awesome congratulations congratulations uh is there anybody on Zoom okay so it sounds like we do have a volume can everybody hear us back there good thank you so we do have a public hearing and I will turn that over to city manager frandel thank you mayor um so public hearing is truth and Taxation hearing for the 2023 tax levy and budget and I will turn that over to my instructor Winnick thank you mayor council members city manager frandel um I am there's a lot of information in the truth and Taxation presentation um we'll try to go through it pretty quickly uh before I get into it I kind of wanted to to start um with this uh piece going through this budget cycle and putting together this truth and Taxation hearing the first line of The Tale of Two Cities comes to my mind it was the best of times it was the worst of times what I mean by that is that our the property taxes for 2023 are going to have a significant impact on our residents here in the city of North St Paul that's the worst of times best of times is that we built a budget that is in the best interest of this organization it hit on the goals that were identified by City Council in meaning to funding our infrastructure to look at funding our staff it's a continuation of the commitment that this city council has made I kind of want to bring up a couple of highlights since I have been here we have unfortunately you know in the past two years increased our Levy about a million dollars where is that million dollars gone here's where the the true commitment has really been our police has received 726 000 of that million dollars approximately 68 of that increase in Levy because they're fully supported by Levy has gone to our police if we add in Fire and inspections that total knowledge reaches up to 890 000 of that Million Lives about a million in 50 000 it's 84 percent so 84 percent of our Levy increases has gone to Public Public Safety and that's been the focus that this city council has really emphasized on and have has done a tremendous amount of work and commitment and this city council needs to be recognized for that um it's a tough it's a tough year because there's going to be a significant increase in property taxes um I think the majority of residents will see between a 10 to 15 percent increase some will see higher some will see lower well that's kind of where it's going to fall out as far as a total property tax line with all of the taxing jurisdictions that are involved into there we're in the second year of high inflation um we're in the midst of rising interest rates we're facing an economic Outlook that looks like we're going to be heading into a recession these are all tough things to to face for the residents it's also a tough thing for the city to face we too have experienced significantly High increases in their costs for operation but again this leadership here of the city council you know one of the works at one of the earlier workshops really focused our goals and our goals were to really look at our core services make sure that we're having adequate Staffing levels to be able to provide the extraordinary services that we have today and we continue to do that into the future and to make sure that we're we're doing an excellent job on our infrastructure in this budget accomplishes that but there's a cost that goes with that component to it this city council asked and received a lot of information through the process our our process with staff started in May of this year for the budget process we officially kicked it off with the city council on in the early part of July we had a number of meetings and we've met all the way through not just on the general fund but all of our Enterprise funds and looking at a lot of different stuff we ran it all the way through in November here we've looked at fund balances we've looked at 10-year Financial plans we've looked at ways to increase revenue and to reduce costs we have done a completely transparent process all the way through all of our Lions everything has been published and put out there for all of our residents to see does it ease the impact absolutely not and and this is actually this has been a tough for me to be here right now given this presentation because I do know what the Act is going to be on our residence so with that and there's another component that that is hard to kind of explain for the residents to understand all revenues in the city and that's part of the reason why we did the we did one of the workshops and looking at ways to increase revenue and reduce costs was our Revenue 75 percent of our Revenue either comes from intergovernmental funds intergovernmental primarily in local government Aid um or the property tax that's 75 percent on the flip side to it so 76 of our expenditures either go to Public Safety or streets and parks um things that are are the core of what the city is all about so with that I'll start to go a little bit through the presentation that I have prepared there's a lot of information and I do want to kind of go through this a little quickly because I want to give the public an opportunity to talk and ask questions and also the city council so you know the the purpose of the truth and Taxation is to provide an opportunity for residents to ask questions and learn about the the budget and and the tax levy there's a lot of information that's that's uh included into this um property taxes kind of a complicated way of How It's all figured out there's changes in the market values the levees of the various taxing authorities debt special assessments if there's voter approved referendums um you know changes in state and federal mandates legislative changes the assessor is the one who sets the market values our Market values in the in the city of have averaged about 15.5 percent increase a lot due to interest rates being low at the the beginning of uh 2020 uh two uh because they're they're established on January 2nd of 2022 I think in the future we're going to see those drop probably to the tune of you know a good 20 percent um part of what we're seeing with the economy will that hit in for taxes payable in 2024 or 2025 it'll hit somewhere in between you know somewhere in there I think we'll see some adjustments in 24 and then a remainder in 2025. um the truth and Taxation notice is sent out and I kind of want to look at the truth and Taxation notice the front page to it what it'll end up showing you is what the what your taxes are going to be for the various jurisdictions now when you look at the North St Paul line to it you're going to see an increase in the increase is going to be due to what we've done in the general fund which the general fund includes our general operations and our debt service which we had a 12.5 nine percent increase what this city council did and looking at a lot of the information was made the decision not to Levy anything for the HRA and to keep the Economic Development Authority Levy the same when you combine all three of those levees our overall impact will be 8.48 to our residents so on the City Line you're going to see the 12.59 percent in the other special taxing districts which almost all residents should see a decrease in that is due to the reduction in the HRA Levy another component is as Market values increase in houses you also lose the Homestead market value exclusion so you get a double whammy um I took a property tax notice that is pretty representative of our median value in the city of North St Paul for the taxes payable in 2023 and you can see that there's an eight and a half percent increase for Ramsey County 13.9 percent the increase for North St Paul you're seeing that the school district's increasing 8.7 uh the Metro politics special taxing districts increasing 3.9 and then you're seeing that big other special taxing districts being reduced almost 28 percent and that's where you're seeing that HRA impact where does the where does the Dollar go when you look at your property taxes 34 is going to Ramsey County 32 is going to the school district 30 is going to the city of North St Paul and forward to some of those other taxing authorities new this year that hasn't been included in the truth and Taxation notice is the supplemental budget information which it'll actually tell you uh where the expenditures are going to and does a comparison from the current year of 2022 to the proposed of 2023 excellent information for the residents to to see um again our our values our median residential that home value has increased from 237 000 to 200 almost 274 000. um so we're seeing a significant increase um in the market values um this slide here will show you um how the changes have occurred in residential Apartments commercial and in industrial um and everything has moved upwards [Applause] um the Levee highlights the city's Levy for 2023 is like I had mentioned before 12.59 increase or 732 000 increase from the 2022 to remind everybody in 2022 we did a 5.99 Levy increase we have proposed a zero or 100 decrease in the HRA Levy and the Eda to remain the same level as 2022. some of the budget highlights and you can kind of see here where some of the you know kind of explains the the cost changes that have occurred we do have the addition of five staff that we're including and to hear um two of which are in public safety some administrative positions public [Music] for the streets Street Maintenance staff editions are approximately 424 thousand dollars increased coal a step benefit increases per Union contracts 162 000. we got hit with a medical insurance increase at the last minute of 139 000 we had a Metro init increase of fifty four thousand we were able to increase the in rev you know the expenditures and revenue side on inspections 222 000. we have some cap Parks Capital increase part of our infrastructure of approximately 98 1000 Street Maintenance increase of approximately 60 again looking at that infrastructure on our Revenue side you can see the offset of the inspections increase where we can increase our revenues almost three hundred thousand dollars intergovernmentals increased 55 and other taxes 85. unfortunately the remainder of that ends up having to come from our property taxes but the shows again the city councils can continued commitment to the city operator Public Safety we're now above the beginning of the pandemic in 2020 as far as Staffing levels and it continues a balanced budget this slide will kind of show the illustration of the changes from 22 to 23 and again you're seeing where the city's Levy's going up to 12.59 percent HRA is is being zeroed out Eda is staying the same the total of all three levees is an 8.48 increase from 2022. in our general fund here's a snapshot of where the revenues and expenditures I'm going to these are the numbers I'm going to kind of go to more of the graphs we're also seeing where our staffing levels have changed over since 2019 to 2023 um again this depiction of this graph here shows where our revenues are at we're you know 56 and a half percent is property taxes um nine percent is other funding sources what's that other funding sources that's transfers from our Enterprise funds um to the tune of um eight hundred and twenty thousand dollars without that transfer um 2022 every fifty eight thousand dollars equates to a one percent Levy increase without that eight hundred twenty thousand dollars we would end up having to increase our Levy an additional 14 percent um and then the intergovernmental revenue is approximately 18 percent um when we look at our budgets our Personnel costs our our our biggest category um at 63 percent followed by contractual services at 28 percent on the expenditures by a department you can see again almost 42 percent is is to police um you know you know close to 14 is for fire um enforcement so again you know we're we're looking at a a significant part that's that's being dedicated to our to the city's Public Safety this is the shows where our debt um we have a very slight increase or change in our in our debt we've done a very good job of our debt planning if you remember in the 22 budget we refunded some debt this is actually including the street project and the Bonnie that we did earlier this year and we're only seeing an approximate seven thousand dollar increase with on the horizon again as I spoke earlier to to one of the citizens questions that we will see a reduction in 2025 of the 2016 B bonds so what's this what kind of impact does this this have when I look at from the the city's portion and I ran a couple of scenarios if there's no value change with 8.48 total Levy they would see a reduction in in the city's property taxes of approximately six percent or six percent um if they have the median value increase with that with the levy that's being proposed they would see approximately a 10 increase if they have a 7.3 percent increase in market value they would see a 1.7 percent increase bottom line and then if you go on the other side and you have somebody who has like a 17 increase in their market value they'd see a 12 percent increase the HRA and the Eda levees again the HRA Levy were we are not let proposing to Levy anything for it here in 2023 um and the Eda will stay the same at its current level here this this slide here shows you all of the the levy increases for the cities and townships within Ramsey County I believe the overall average is 12.8 percent Levy increase and you can see they've got from Gem Lake at a 34 increase down to Falcon Heights which that is at a 4.8 percent you can see the the city of North St Paul's a little bit on the higher than average side to it as far as the the cities at that 12.59 percent but then again we reduced some others other components to our Levy that aren't reflected in this part to it to bring it down to that 8.48 overall Levy this depiction here will show you where the where the ranges of of what the increases will be um on that again on that median value home you should see an approximate 10 increase um you'll see the you know the county will be increasing 10 percent the city 15 schools 10 percent and that other and that's where the HRA is is included a reducing approximately 10 but the total impact to our residences it would be a 10 increase this kind of shows of of the parcels what's kind of a range of where they'll end up being as far as an increase in their taxes and you know a decrease or zero um it's a small number of 228 of of our 3750 Parcels that would end up seeing a decrease the majority are going to fall into a zero to ten really more towards the 10 percent of approximately eighteen hundred uh 10 to 20 percent will see 13 uh we'll see those that will see attend a 20 increase it'll affect approximately you know 1 380 um parcels nothing to look lightly at this is this is having an impact um on our residents um if uh if any of our residents have any questions regarding their assessed values they can always call the Ramsey County assess assessor's office there's the number we can also there's a link that's attached that they can go to their web page um there are some opportunities or programs that can help reduce the property taxes and so this is really good information um and for residents to look at this this one in particular the homestead deadlines and exclusion programs um you know maybe a you know something for somebody to look at too so with that I'm going to wrap it up and I'm want to hear from from citizens I know this is a huge impact um and and uh I want to hear from city council comments thoughts um as we move forward here why don't we go ahead and open up the public hearing at this time uh and we'll save our questions for that for the council after that so at this time at times at 703 we'll open the public hearing up and so at this time if any Resident would like to come up and speak in regards to the taxation we also have our finance director here to be able to answer your questions anybody would like to come up don't be shy welcome welcome I suppose I have to say my name uh Naomi and Rocky vandal um and we're here because our property taxes are going up about 30 percent so that is quite a bit a lot and we've lived here over 20 years and we're going to concern about it because first of all we don't have a child in the school system anymore um we haven't seen that many services we have a tree on the boulevard that belongs to the city and the city has yet to come and trim it 20 kids get picked up every school day and those there's a lot of dead branches on that side so we're concerned about it that said he says hey we're going to take care of it we haven't seen it we do our part of keeping the fire hydrant clean the storm drains clean I mean we do our part we haven't seen this yet thank you thank you for that you know we even have it for the kids we clean it and every I mean we have a pretty clean yard and we've done a lot of updates we love it here but to see an increase of almost 30 percent is just ridiculous right so I would uh you know 30 it's not all city it's not the All City Park you know so I think I calculated it approximately 28 for the city so I would you know I don't know if we can look at your tax bill and you know work so I I would assume and be pretty close with this that um your market value um had to have increased probably 25 to 30 percent from 2022 and that's probably your biggest driving Factor so you're on the end where a medium value home is increasing 15 percent and you would have seen approximately a total 10 percent increase in your property taxes you're on the very outside edge that your values went up significantly more than the median value I'd like to challenge that I don't think it's Justified now some of you know what I do for a living and I'm also a businessman for the years that I've been here I've heard we've got to build our tax base I get that that's good business we have all the new apartments in the city we have all these things going on in the city you guys have been doing a great job as management but to push it on to the residents who are also contributors to society in the city I feel is unjustified now I realize that there's a zero point Baseline of property taxes frankly I think it's just a revenue generator that's kind of hidden underneath the property what the value is worth I'm sorry excuse me so I challenge the validity of those numbers of the values yeah and that's where you'll need to reach out to the Ramsey County assessor's office they're the ones who determine those values I was at the Ramsey County meeting in Roseville recently there's a lot of people that are suffering we're just getting over the covert thing absolutely and it seems like it's something or finding a reason to capitalize on that just to put a more burden on the people there's something wrong with the equation it's not balancing out we have a lot of resources in this city and it's a great City but to continue to pass pass those extra burdens onto the residents because that I feel is unjustified thanks for all you do anybody else I don't have the time around you you've got it no you can't uh hearings you can listen to me until the cows come home never knew that away we go we'll call the cows John Schmall 2750 Chisholm Avenue uh I guess it's off subject but there's even a bigger monster in a house and that is the fee schedule and there's no input requested from the city on fee schedule uh take for example electric Excel is just going through about a year and a half worth of hearings in order to deal with the increase what do we do in North St Paul well this is it III nay uh would be and nothing no hearings on fee schedule nothing we don't get to say anything because there's no hearings on it I think that's wrong thank you anybody else Donald [Music] Munich this isn't really for referring to this budget here but but a few years ago they raised evaluations about thirty thousand dollars the highest in Ramsey County for North St Paul average of 16 something percent my taxes went up over six hundred dollars I filed for that over whatever the over the ten percent of stuff and they denied it because they thought there was improvements on the property there was never no improvements on the property but they raised it thirty thousand I think it was or something in that area market value went up thirty thousand yep everybody's went up it went up on average of 16 they said we don't have control over that do we we don't have control over the market value no we don't I mean that's purely the the county auditor at County assessor's office that makes that determination and I know a lot of I mean we can see it again this year you know seeing the median value going up 15.5 and and we just heard you know another big significant increase in the in the market value a lot of it and I'm not going to say it was justified or not but there so the county assessor's office is required by Statute to do it's called a quartile in other words once every four years they're supposed to do an assessment of a property unfortunately this past year for which is going into the property taxes in 2023 a large part of North St Paul was reevaluated and it was sitting at a time where we saw a housing market houses were going through the rough because yeah it was out of whack that will be getting adjusted um and but yes the results are astronomical as far as how Market values went up but what I was referring to is they thought I had improvements on the property and there's that 10 or 12 percent deal there and well they denied it well they went through the thing and they took the thing there was no improvement so I did get uh finally well good it was a couple years and again that's Ramsey County doing that that's not well it's Ramsey but it was the valuations that went up just in North St Paul alone 16 of that year it was about two three years ago or four years I'm not right because we don't set those Market values no I know you don't right I don't know about the last three years because you know what happened to me three years ago so I'm glad you're here okay thank you thank you Donald anybody else not will close the public hearing at 7-Eleven and I said it right uh so at this time uh any questions for Dan from the council councilmember Thorson yeah you had mentioned what was roughly the dollar amount of a one percent Levy increase what was that number you had stated uh fifty eight thousand dollars we're looking at it from from the 2022 yes I had a note from our October 18th Workshop that was roughly 60 000 so yeah rounded it yeah okay and then you also made a comment about um if something if some Revenue Source changed we would have to raise the levy whatever it was an additional 15 percent but that's assuming that we're going to continue spending the current amounts I mean I think the example most people can relate to is if your household income decreases you make adjustments to your spending to to live within your means and you know at in my opinion that's kind of a foreign idea as far as government's concerned it's always just spend spend spend but you know if we're faced with some difficult budgetary issues you know naturally we would have to look at reductions in spending so that's always an option that we have as a council but generally it's not one that's discussed so I just wanted to point that out um for people in attendance um and then you know at at some point we're going to vote on this so I'll just I'll just State now why I intend to vote against the general fund Levy um what we've got going on here tonight is we're you know we're obligated as a city to pass a balanced budget and very rarely and does that at the end of the year do we spend exactly what we budgeted um in some cases we spend more than we budgeted and we were supposed to make amendments to the budget for that but in cases where we take in more money than we spend it's it's a surplus and we have a city policy that states that that Surplus money will be split between our street Improvement projects fund and our equipment funds and I requested as far back as we had available which was 2014 um some figures on where did we end up and I'm just going to read these quick because this wasn't included in in the budget information but in 2014 we had a 243 thousand dollar shortfall in 2015 we had a 300 000 Surplus and I'm just rounding these to whole numbers 2016 a 442 thousand dollar Surplus 2017 167 thousand dollar Surplus 2018 194 000 Surplus 2019 of 521 000 Surplus 2020 of 487 000 Surplus excuse me and in 2021 we had 844 000 Surplus and you total that up that's nine two million nine hundred and seventy eight thousand dollars of surplus money that we've taken in more than what we had budgeted to spend and at our October Workshop we were looking at a projection at the end of this year of roughly having about 159 000 Surplus so you know you look at that and you can say well that helps us build our fund balances and it helps us keep art our lobby is low or or you know I think the goal is to have our levees pretty straight and so we don't see these wild swings but you know to me you know we're on Pace to collect a heck of a lot more money than we're than we're budgeted to spend and you know you compound that too with uh like John schmull mentioned we're only talking about the the general fund Levy here we have uh utility rates that we approve and those are increasing and there's reasons for why we're increasing those is because we have a lot facing our our infrastructure it's something that's been neglected for many years and we got a late start on that and we're continuing to do that but you know in times like this when we're looking at a significant Levy increase significant increases to our fees I'm glad that you had in your presentation acknowledge the issues they're facing our country as a whole with the recession because that that has been absent in our conversations of our budget discussions and you know but it's a reality that people face so you know at this point you know I kind of I never quite understood why we have these truth and Taxation meetings the day we're going to approve the levees because it kind of seems like there's not someone who's going to come up here and make a comment that we haven't really discussed or thought it just seems like you know we've been like our finance director stated discussions have started in May we've had many workshops many presentations you know it's more of a formality but at one point earlier I think it was actually last year there was discussion by councilmember Peterson about forming a budget advisory committee I really hope that we do that in the next Council mayor will will look to do that to get more engagement from the public and residents kind of like how John points out too he he attends these budget workshops and there's not a portion that's open to the public to to talk and a lot of the workshops that we've had have been pretty full of presentations and other topics and we're always up against the clock and we don't really have much time to have discussion so excuse me so you know those are just kind of the main reasons why I don't feel comfortable voting to support a levy increase and the fee increases so that's why I'm going to be voting no tonight with the exception of the HRA I'll be happy to vote Yes on a zero percent Levy increase for that foreign balancing the budget we're doing a zero you know zero budget or right no and at the end of the year it does go to those accounts that the use so I you know we can look at the fund balance that we just the new fund balance policy that we just adopted I believe that language is taken out now um so last year's did not go anywhere um it remained in the fund balance of the general fund and we switched the fund balance minimum from a 35 percent to a minimum 40 percent trying to strive to get 50 reason for that is because it gives you um a better Bond rating which then ends up um you know reducing your debt Levy over time but as a finance director you know you're anticipating that it's a balanced budget and at the end of the year correct you know we don't want to be in the negative every year we want to be in the positive correct and you know what is a good number to be in the positive is it right at the zero or is it you know every year it's going to be different as councilmember Thorson had mentioned so it's and there's it and and I can and I can only speak to you we're not the finance people up no we're not we can only speak to the time that I that I have been here like last year we had a significant um increase a lot of that as well as was presented to City Council in the workshop was due to the the increase in permits um that is is something that is very hard to predict um this budget here increases that Revenue um much very probably doubles the revenue um than we've had in the past that there's a risk this year we've got a lot of revenue from permits but again barring an act of God that created this hail storm that replaced virtually every rough in the city we would have never generated that much in in permits and the year before was a lot to do with the development that was happening on in the downtown area there's a lot of things that are out of our control that are out of our control So within the budget yeah so when we prepare a budget you know all of the department heads are doing what they anticipate that they're going to be spending all of that is shared with with city council one thing that we do have to have to remember that the fund balance policy of how it is written is that it needs to be now a minimum of 40 percent of the subsequent budget so in other words it needs to be 40 percent of what is the 2023 budget if the budget goes up there's a percentile that it has to go up so in essence you have to to meet that minimum if you're at 40 to meet 40 the next year you have to have a surplus we don't budget for it so we hope that that's the results that'll end up coming um but not to the magnitude that council member Thorson was saying in some of the past numbers and again in the workshop when we looked at our expenditure side taking out the permitting Revenue side looking at it when we're looking at our peer expenditure I think we were we were quite down I I can't remember the exact figure I think we were somewhere maybe in about a hundred and twenty hundred and about 120 000 that we had and re um in expenditure Savings in the general fund um so it was really generated by the increase in permitting okay any questions on this end so at this time I've turned over to city manager frandel thank you mayor um City business action items uh first up is the 2023 Municipal fee schedule and rates ordinance and uh Dan has that again so director Wayne um mayor council members and city manager frandel um if I can get what our next item is the the fee schedules yes please yeah so um the next item is our 2023 Municipal fee schedules and rates this has been presented to city council discussed um the um there was two kind of outstanding items I believe there's two one um uh one was the discussion of the potential for the shelters in the Parks rental rates being cut in half my understanding from staff at the last Parks and Rec commission meeting was that the deter the decision was made to keep that the same as it was in 2022 and not have the half days and the half rental rates so it's reflected as uh the same as it was in 2022. the other item that was discussed was our ball field rental and inner ball field rental the my understanding was that non-profits were not being charged at all for Ballfield rentals have confirmed that with staff that that is what was occurring I could not find any city council authorization that allowed that to happen so staff does know now that moving into the future that there will be charging in the same as as that is included in our fee schedule and rate and utility rates that that is being presented today um the more significant which council member Thorson had spoke of this also includes our utility rates and so there's two of our utilities will or right now are being proposed to have increases both the electric rate and the Wastewater rate and the increase is 2.75 percent over 2022. foreign schedule councilmember Thorson so how does that happen then like how does something like a non-profit not paying for a fee rental that is established in our fee schedule how does that happen if Council didn't authorize it um council member Thurston I can't answer that that would have to you know I I don't know how that ever developed um you know that's underneath the Community Development section and and I don't know why or how that conversation came about and why a determination was made it should not have been made without a city council approval and then as this was going on what sort of uh verification is going on and you know if I have a beer league that I want to come and rent the fields and I see that right here that non-profits don't get charged and I just say oh yeah I'm a Thorson's drinking team 2022 we're a non-profit I mean is there any is there any uh is there like a form that you fill out that we need to give provide tax ID numbers is there is someone going on to the Secretary of State's website and verifying if what I'm saying is true it in again uh councilmember Thurston I can't answer that question I definitely can look into it but I do want you to know that that practice will not be occurring moving into the future okay any question regards to the uh over the phone credit card fee it's a it's a fee of twenty dollars correct is that a pass-through fee from our credit card processor that they charge twenty dollars I mean if what is that mainly for is it billing any type of billing we do get a charge from from our uh credit card company or um maintains over the phone thinking like a five dollar you know is there ever a five dollar charge and you charge them 20 and that's part part of you know I'm totally anticipating in in uh mayor and council members are aware um I'm currently looking at and and have gotten some proposals from other credit card companies um to try to be able to reduce um the costs to the city so I'm anticipating that we will see some reductions and we will be adjusting some of these fees that are in here coming into 2023 once we get the proposals do the analysis and then I'll bring a recommendation to city council to approve and we will be making you know kind of an an amendment to this fee schedule once we we've got those determinate determined any other questions not uh second year the motion is to ordinance adopting the 2023 Municipal fee schedule and utility rates like councilmember Peterson second mic councilmember Cole any discussion if not all in favor signify by saying aye aye opposed A the motion carries city manager Randall next up is the 2023 budget and Levy overview including both general fund HRA and Eda I'll turn that back over to my instructor Winnick yes that is I do want to start out by saying I I agree with a comment that council member Thorson had said um that it would be my preference well two comments that he said one I think we've already discussed that I really do think that we should have a budget Committee in in some way shape or form that's working it just enhances our overall transparency and involvement of the residents um and uh everybody talked about that earlier we've talked about that yes so I think we should look at establishing that the second comment um part to it is is that I do agree that we should not be passing Our Lives the same night that we have a truth in taxation um because I think we do need to to reflect upon the voice of our residents in making before we make our final decisions um does every city do that because it's always as far as I know that's that's the way we've always done it and I don't know if they say does everyone do it I I've seen it both ways um I was at a meeting last night where they did the hearing uh took in the information and I think they'll address the levy at their next meeting um I've certainly seen it where you do exactly as you're proposing to tonight you have your hearing the idea being this isn't the first time you've addressed the numbers um you have had meetings on it that were open to the public and such so you you can do it either way Dan what I can't remember is what the window in terms of having the TNT hearing is statutorily what time we have to have it or when it should occur but yeah it's approximately um I think the the window is I think I'm just gonna throw some like November 27-ish to um December ninth so that's why we had to have the truth and Taxation on this city council meeting um it's we could have potentially um delayed the actual approval until the following city council meeting for this year on the 20th um and and that's just something to look at you know in the future um but again um um we have discussed all of these um over and over again in different workshops but it's still it it's I think more of an optic type of component to it that we really do need to respect the input that we receive from our fine residents so and I think the council would be totally open to it I absolutely yeah you know with the finance director you know directing us to get those numbers in place and then having you know the public hearing at some point so in a new Council some of it's sit behind us so I'm sure they're hearing that so so before you were are three items um for the 2023 It's the final uh general fund budget in Levy uh the final HRA Levy um and the final Eda Levy and there's resolutions that are attached um these resolutions wants to approved they're certified to Ramsey County and those certifications need to occur to Ramsey County by by December 28th okay so the first resolution is resolution adopted in the final 2023 general fund budget and setting the final 2023 general purpose and Debt Service levies is there a motion so moved your honored by councilmember Peterson second by council member Cole any discussion not all those in favor signify by saying aye aye aye opposed hey motion carries uh this second one is uh resolution adopting the final 2023 tax levy for the North St Paul Housing and Redevelopment Authority is there a motion so moved by councilmember Wong second Sacramento council member Cole any discussion if not all those in favor signify by saying aye aye opposed motion carries the last one is resolution adopting the final 2023 tax levy for the North St Paul Economic Development Authority so moved moved by council member Cole second second by council member Wong any discussion if not all those in favor signify by saying aye aye opposed a motion carries city manager frandel next item in the city business action items is the adoption of the 2023 City non-lebby budgets again turned back over to director Winnick please uh mayor and council members and uh city manager frandel um this um action item is to adopt uh the 2023 City non-levy budgets um that includes includes our Enterprise funds and our internal service funds and special Revenue funds that we budget we've had discussion on these we've looked at the financial plans are on those again part of the fee and fee schedule two of these uh Enterprise funds the electric and the Wastewater we'll be seeing a 2.75 percent rate increase and so it's changed in the revenues that you're seeing in those two funds again as we saw with the levy and these non-levy budgets all of the backup documentation even down to line items are attached and are made public here will be put onto our website after approval any questions for Dan on that if not the Motions for resolution approving the 2023 non-levy budgets moved by council member Peterson second second by council member Cole any discussion not always in favor signify by saying aye aye aye opposed hey motion carries city manager frandel next up on the city business action items is the adoption of the 2023 to 2032 Capital Improvement plan we have city engineer Morgan Dali here to our Capital plan we're going to talk on that or say Dan Dan sorry back to you welcome Dan it's good to be good to be with you uh thank you mayor council members and city manager frandel um we've reviewed uh the capital Improvement plan there are a couple of of changes that have occurred since you last saw this one we had a question that was raised by councilmember Wong regarding the police vehicle replacement um they were doing four every time they were doing their replacement councilmember 1 made the suggestion could they offset that and so we'd I've talked to the police chief and he was uh very uh very much in agreement so we moved it to two vehicles to kind of offset that change in addition there's been some adjustments to the parks playground and paths Tab and open space section to better align with the Parks and Recreation master plan so we wanted to make sure that we were in concert with with that and then also the street and utility projects have been reprioritized in particular there was um a rearrangement of some projects um you know from the year because we won't be bonding for those until 2025 27 29 there was a rearrangement and prioritization of moving some of them up and moving the one in 2025 that had to to do with not the section of the seventh street that we're doing now but to move it out to 2029 and to move up some other sections that had been deferred um and pushed out that we're supposed to have been done but were pushed out due to some other priorities in past years so we've moved that up to 2025 those were the changes that were in there this Capital Improvement plan in addition to our discussions here at city council were also put in front of the Parks and Recreation committee for review and um that occurred on October 26th and was approved with the recommendation to pass this along to pass this and then on November 3rd to the Planning Commission reviewed the CIP and approved it that it complies with the 2040 comprehensive plan so I'll take any questions there is a resolution here that does need to be approved any questions for Dan not the motion is for resolution adopting the revised I got revised there's a typo there revised 2023 to 23 32 Capital Improvement plan so moved by council member Thorson their second Second Bank council member Peterson any discussion if not all is in favor signify by saying aye aye aye oppose motion carries city manager frandel next up is the 2022 MnDOT active Transportation grant program um looking for a resolution of support and this is for uh sidewalk on the north side of 11th Avenue from McKnight Road down to Ariel Street we have a city engineer Oregon Dali to speak to that welcome Morgan thank you Mr Mayor members of the council this item before you here is a resolution included in your packet simply identifying support for an application for Grant funds that are identified by MnDOT and also by State Statute dedicated for pedestrian bicycle improvements throughout the state it's a grant solicitation called the active Transportation Grant that's out right now identifying uh 3.5 million dollars for improvements in 2023 2024 the funds would have to be expended before the end of 2024. it was a a solicitation for Grant dollars or an opportunity for potential funding for projects that aren't currently in our CIP that staff took a look at and in reviewing the comprehensive plan identified a sidewalk connection project that had been discussed by Council previously in 2 2015 namely a sidewalk on the north side of 11th Avenue between McKnight Road and Ariel Street So Not only was it previously considered and not pursued in 2015 for lack of funds at that time but also if it were to be constructed it would provide logical pedestrian connection between sidewalks on McKnight Road newly constructed sidewalks on Ariel Street and the city of Maplewood also installed in 2022 a sidewalk connection on the north side of 11th Avenue from Ariel Street to in some of the residential areas that they have there on the corner of 11th and Ariel to White Bear Avenue as well too so this would potentially if constructed provide some opportunities for non-motorized populations to move in and around the area between residential and recreational areas and Commercial areas too and as discussed in 2015 having sidewalks on both sides of 11th Avenue provides some benefits to pedestrians and also Transit Riders the westbound Transit stops on 11th Avenue the only way to get to them currently would be to walk across four lanes of traffic on 11. is there a map you can put up so people can see that shared did you unshare your presentation oh you got it you got the packet there we go that's thank you Dan there's the map so that again connection would be on the North side 11th Avenue between McKnight Road and Ariel Street the funding request is for five hundred thousand dollars a conservative estimate of what it would take to construct that sidewalk Ada improvements at the connections and kind of making it uh fairly wide I guess as adjacent to a commercial street is just over five hundred thousand dollars at approximately five hundred and eighty thousand dollars um now you know that's not necessarily what the final cost would be but just in terms of preliminary planning estimate to be able to submit an application if there were an overage that would be the responsibility of the city and uh indirect costs so like engineering uh contract Administration materials testing that would also be the responsibility of the city but there is no match for the construction dollars so that does make it kind of an appealing Grant solicitation to go for that it would be if we were selected a hundred percent of the construction amount up to that 500 000 would be funded by the state state we're getting to this point because we just before we even brought it to council there was an opportunity to submit a letter of intent just to see if it you know if the state thought it was a good project and they came back with a favorable response so here we are with a resolution of support for Council consideration which is a requirement to apply so if the council didn't approve this resolution we would not be moving forward with an application we should find out early in 2023 you know January February time frame if we were selected and successful um and with that I don't have anything else to add other than uh again we consulted the comprehensive plan and this connection is identified within the 2040 comp plan as a tier one sidewalk Improvement project um the city council and Planning Commission and those that contributed to the comp plan at that time had kind of three tiers or priorities of sidewalk projects in this particular one fell in the top tier which is one of the reasons why staff thought it might fit the criteria well so with that I'll stand for any questions Council might have for consideration on the resolution is there a bus stop on that side of the street there's at least one and possibly two I believe there were three and we worked with Metro Transit back in 2014 2015 uh to evaluate if some of those bus stops were not used and based on the ridership counts at that time they did take one out to try to minimize the number of people that might be just walking across traffic mid-block there uh so I think there's I think there's two one at Ariel Street and one potentially in the middle there uh I think the one I'm thinking of there is no it's just a sign you know correct so walk there's no walk there's just dirt there's no bench or nothing would they improve that then what uh we could with the sidewalk we would include if if this uh grant were provided to the city that kind of concrete pad or ability to connect the sidewalk to something that would provide a location where people could get on the bus at that point could be included easily with the project and would be Grant eligible as well okay you know the questions for Morgan no just thank you for submitting for that Grant I think we've talked a lot about you know ways to save money and this is certainly a way to um you know help with with the budget so thank you sure so uh motion is a resolution of support for the city of North St Paul Grant application submittal for the 2022 MnDOT active Transportation grant program so I moved your honor by council member Wong second councilman uh second by council member call any discussion if not all those in favor signify by saying aye aye opposed motion carries thank you Morgan are you up next one do you want to intro it or should I just keep rolling go ahead okay uh the next item before you for City business Mr Mayor members of the council is just a final pay voucher actually there's only one pay voucher so approving pay voucher one and final for the 2022 crack ceiling which is conducted as part of regular Street Maintenance on the screen here we have just a map of the areas that were covered here crack ceiling is something that the city has been doing on a regular basis approximately every three to five years is recommended for newer roads that have been reconstructed or have had other kind of Prior improvements like Mills Mill and overlay that sort of thing the budgeted amount was seventy thousand dollars the awarded contract was in the amount of eighty three thousand one hundred but staff worked with a contractor to keep the final payment under about five percent under the budgeted amount so the final payment is in the amount of sixty six thousand three hundred and seventy five dollars and again as I mentioned the map is up on the screen right now we did have to subtract a couple segments to reduce what we had originally put out there for bid but not substantially and they were roadways that staff thought were going to be okay they were included originally but they'll be okay until the next time that this is conducted probably in the next two to three years for crack sealing so with that I'll stand for any questions We There is a uh resolution yes we do have a resolution for just uh Council consideration to approve pay voucher one and final the contract for this particular project uh Stanford questions from Oregon if not I do have a cute story I was in one of the areas and uh these two ladies were walking on the street and they stopped and they started peeling the white stuff you know and I stopped and I said do you know what that is and I said no and I said it's toilet paper and they looked at me going are you kidding I went no Morgan told me they actually use toilet paper I don't think they used Charmin but it is toilet paper to play so uh cute Story the motion is for a resolution authorized in final payment for the 2022 crack ceiling project so moved your honored by councilmember Peterson second by council member Thorson any discussion if not all those in favor signify by saying aye aye oppose a motion carries uh city manager frandel exciting him up is what was pulled down from the consent agenda which uh first up is the 2023 city council meeting calendar yeah um I just I pulled that item and then the uh attendance review just I my recommendation would be that those two items be tabled and um approved at the beginning of the year the new year with the new Council because they're the ones that are going to be dealing with that and they're the ones that are going to have to look at the schedules to see if any conflicts are there so it was just you know in looking over the agenda I saw that and I thought well and typically those are items that we deal with in the first meeting in January first or second meeting so that would just be my recommendation that we table that and let the new Council and mayor have an opportunity to review that stuff uh so we I don't see so I Mr Mayor on the uh appointments or the item I that's certainly I I understand that in terms of the meeting you know technically that first meeting in January gets set right now I mean just so you can even meet um so I understand your point councilmember Thorson I just um you at least have to set that first meeting so that they can meet um and maybe set it through January and allow them to take a swing at it just so that that first month is set or something like that if you're not comfortable with the full year but and they can always change it at the beginning they can they can we're just setting the schedule for next year and that sets the first meeting and then after that if they want to change it they could yeah you can I mean as you as you know you're on a currently on a cycle you know on your your Tuesdays and things of that nature that's how it's been said I don't know if you're varying from I didn't to be honest I didn't review your 2023 calendar um but I understand councilmember Thorson's point but I would at least I would recommend at least getting them through January and if they want to take it up at that first meeting to alter it they can you know sometimes there's holidays and stuff although on Tuesday you usually miss a lot of the the Monday stuff but um it's certainly something you can do and if they want to alter it I think custom in practice candidly I haven't paid that close of attention on whether you've set your calendar in advance or taken it up on that first meeting and um January but it is it is something you're required to ultimately do is set your meeting the idea being that the public wants to know when your regular meetings are you don't have to do special notices things of that nature so if you do it now your second meeting or let them finish it in January either way but I'd I'd encourage you to at least think get in through January we're okay with just setting January 3rd and 17th for city manager have the newly elected been consulted in regards to this schedule no which again I don't know how long your custom and practice has been to hold it on the the Tuesdays that you're doing but I think we're just carrying that forward and I noticed that some of the dates are taken out you know July 4th is out it's gone and then the National Night Out is gone so it just follows schedules we've been doing for the last 100 years well that's where my recollection was we would do that on the first meeting of the year you know we were approving the the calendar for the year and we did that the first meeting but if you know I I guess I'll make a motion and we approve the calendar as is and then if the new Council has issues they can amend it okay so the Motions for resolution adopting the 2023 city council meeting schedule so moved by councilmember Peterson second second by councilmember Cole any discussion if not all those in favor signify by saying aye aye opposed motion carries and then the other one is the uh the commissions yeah that was just again you know we're required by ordinance to review that and typically I would think you would have that discussion when you're looking at making commission appointments or whatever but again it just seems like it's more appropriate to table at for the beginning of the year when those discussions are happening so that's the reason why I pulled it the City attorney to get me I don't have any advice on that if uh it certainly is not something you have to decide tonight if you want to let the quote new Council handle it at that first meeting in January okay what's Leonard table it okay table it is that what would be the wording of the motion uh just that we've reviewed all we're doing correct or is that just more for uh factual I don't know if that's even the motion if what you want to do is kick it to that first meeting in January if there's a motion to table it till January 3rd that would be your motion may I mayor what it is is it's uh just a report of who attended what meetings in 2022. I don't think you're making any appointments I don't think we're making any emotion oh well I believe the way I read it it's an ordinance that it has to be we have to look at and review it and the only thing the reason it was in the consent agenda is just to agree to the fact that we've reviewed it it's not an ordinance or a resolution it's just information information only oh there's a rule no rule so it's it's not the I didn't read that as being the actual appointments correct me if I'm wrong on that this is not the actual appointments this is just a shows the attendance right so let me clarify there's an ordinance that states that we have to annually review the attendance of commissions and games and when it's in front of us here today I'm just saying this should be tabled when that discussion because this clearly is a part of that discussion on who are we going to appoint to commissions and committees well if you're going to make that decision you'd naturally look at well let's take a look at who attended meetings last year was there someone that missed over half the meetings does it make sense to reappoint them so I'm just recommending that maybe this would make more sense to be approved or reviewed when the new council is taking in consideration those appointments that's all yeah I'm assuming they're going to be able to they use that document yep so we don't have to make any formal motion or anything okay no no I don't believe you do right okay as Jenny's pointed out it's something that you're required to review um so whether whether it's on the consent agenda or an informational item however you choose to handle it that certainly makes sense and I think to the points being made that when the new council is sworn in in January this is certainly something they can use when deciding how to make their appointments nope Kate we're not going to do anything with that just information only and I'll turn over to city manager frandel thank you mayor next up is the reports of the city manager for the Departments um now with staff today and PD has had a busy week last week that had served a couple of different warrants so they were able to get a lot of drugs and some guns as well off of the streets and uh there were a couple of good warrants that were served one was in partnership with well we were in partnership with the DEA they had a program going and then we also had our own warrant that was served or also to take a good amount of drugs and money off of the streets so they were they did a good job nobody was injured so that was great um I believe it was a nationwide thing it was a ea program was yeah through many states that they did uh served those warrants at the same time um electric Department's still been changing out the decorative street lights um over the years the standards get take a beating whether or not snow plowing or just the weather and they've been taking them down sending them in they're getting sandblasted and repainted and put back out so that's looking really good they got a pretty good handle on that now they'll be starting to focus on uh overhead line clearance power line clearance getting some tree trimming done which always pays off really well for the summer storms so they'll be doing that Community Development finally the permits have settled down a little bit after all the uh roofs that had been done so we're down to 128 permits pulled for last month um they're doing a pilot program Ramsey County has reached out they want to do a food waste program so there'll be more information to come on that but we're going to get involved in that um that's just the pilot program see how it goes and see how to move forward from that we were one of just a couple of cities that were asked to do the volunteer pilot program so we're going to do that uh fire departments had a busy year again I think they had another record year for the amount of calls that they've had starting next year we'll be having uh department heads coming up and doing reports for you guys stats and what they've been doing for the month and so that'll be good to bring forward to you guys I think that's about it for me that's it thank you uh any questions for city manager if not reports of council and commissions committees councilmember Cole uh short and brief Eda meeting is next is this coming Wednesday the 13th at 3 o'clock uh followed up by the Park and Recs meeting is there are having a December meetings due to the everything they've got going on uh on 12 21 at 6 30 here in council chambers councilmember Lang yeah so the arts and culture commission is meeting tomorrow here at the chambers at 6 30. um recently um there are folks doing interviews for new Commissioners we're looking for two voting members and then also two youth non-voting members the commission continues to um develop project snowy and then they're also looking at some of the activities for next year which looks like guided painting for an adult audience and then utility wraps on utility boxes in regards to the Planning Commission they met yesterday to revisit the sign ordinance again and then we also have two outgoing members Elaine Barton who has served with us for 15 years on the Planning Commission and then mayor-elect John mangy so we will have two at least two vacancies on the Planning Commission coming up and that's all I have thank you councilmember Peterson I have nothing councilmember Thorson uh General business uh council member Cole I have nothing at this time oh just other than congratulations candy yeah yeah it was a nice surprise yes it was uh councilmember Wong and uh councilmember Peterson yes uh the holiday hop is this weekend uh it's going to be a long day-long activities so come out and support the local businesses and there'll be some fun things at the different establishments I think Newman's are having a burger special and I don't have all the information but I think there's a website and I want to do a big shout out to Rachel Thompson who is our little angel who organizes the Christmas Tree Project she's going to serve 15 families that are of need so they're going to be very happy on the 17th when they come to City Hall they're going to get everything granted that they wanted she got a ton of donations I mean I have to thank the community for stepping up because this is a hard time for everybody but some people have a little extra than others so I want to thank her and her little elves and uh she's a gem for us I think she was on TV yes she was she was on again it's a nice coverage of our town good press for the North Saint Paul yeah that's all I have council member tharson uh yeah this will be my last meeting because I have a scheduling conflict with the meeting on the 20th so thanks to City staff for all your hard work and uh thanks for uh all the residents and people who have supported me over the years and uh Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everyone and good luck to the new council members and mayor thank you I have the Christmas light up contest is uh going to be it started and we do have some entries in the deadline for the entries I believe is Monday this Saturday to Saturday and then we'll start judging the following December 14th to the 18th and we'll have a business category and a residential category and councilmember Peterson just told me to remind everyone that there are Christmas lights you can come to City Hall and get a free pack of Christmas lights from the electric Department I believe that's from Electric we also have ego kits available that were given out to the public we're also doing that program with the food shelf so they can give that to their customers as well so it's a Energy Efficiency kit you can have LED light bulbs amongst things that are in there so yeah please pick one up wonderful and they're great balls uh I believe even donbinick got some of these for his tractor they'd easily going down the road with so I hardly wait to see that Don excited to see that uh just announced tonight that there's a 17.6 billion dollar uh Surplus that the city is going to have I know the new city council I said City yeah oh boy good job we're gonna we're gonna leave you guys in good shape Rocky it is tough up here it really is uh so uh I encourage the uh the new Council the new mayor uh I know city manager Randall's already uh been in contact with one of our legislators in regards to uh some of that money that will be distributed out to the cities uh in the in the state so we'll be working on that uh hopefully be able to get some of the money back into our package so that we can help our citizens and stuff that we do in the city here with that said uh thank you councilmember Thorson for your service and uh it's be kind of weird not to see everyone in the last meeting but uh uh yeah I wish you a Merry Christmas and thank you for all you did uh with that said I uh motion to adjourn Al moved by a council member Peterson second by council member Thorson any discussion if not all those would favor signify for saying aye aye opposed we are adjourned thank you everybody