[0:01] Mayor Wayne Boucher: Stand for the Pledge of Allegiance please. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Please. Councilor Jones? [Absent]. Councilor Geissler? [Here]. Councilor Hjelle? Here. Councilor LeBlanc? Here. Mayor Boucher? Here. Are there any councilors that have announcements this evening? None. I have one. I received notice from the League of Minnesota Cities that our former Councilor Grant Hauschild was awarded the recognition as League of Minnesota City's 2023 Legislator of Distinction and that was because of his willingness to work with cities on city-related issues, and congratulate him on that. Next, we have a public hearing rule adopted as three minutes per person if necessary. Any action required after the public hearing will be taken immediately following the closing of the public hearing and the public hearing is in connection with resolution 2023-121: Resolution of the City of Hermantown modifying Municipal Development District number one, approving the modified development program therefore establishing Tax Increment Financing District number two, the Greenhouse, a redevelopment district, and approving the tax increment financing plan therefore with Municipal Development District number one. Mr. Mulder? [1:33] John Mulder: So as you know, we have been talking about the possibility of having the former Engwall site redeveloped and we've been talking about potential infrastructure improvements and the possibility of some housing—single-family housing on the North End and multi-family housing on the South End. And so we have been talking about that for a number of months and have gone through a process to say if those developments were to happen and it generated this amount of valuation, that then we could have a TIF district there that would allow us to fund in part the infrastructure but also in part to help pay for some of the development costs that might not happen if we did not do this. So that's kind of where we're at at this point. We do not have a specific project proposed for this but this does put a tool in the box for us to allow for the development at the site. Any further development would need to require both P&Z approval for any development there and also if there's any infrastructure improvements, which there are, that would require a development agreement that needs to come back to the council for approval as well. [3:05] Mayor Wayne Boucher: Thank you. Should we ask if there's questions from Council at this time? For me, there may be later and now we will open it up to public input if anybody wishes to comment on this. If you're online please start with your name and address. If you're present in Chambers and wish to comment please approach the podium and state your name and address. [3:47] Vivian Gangle: Hi, my name is Vivian Gangle and I live at 3783 King Creek Lane, which is across the road from Engwalls—the former Engwalls. And we're just—I'm here to get information for the community about the potential project and I know it hasn't been approved yet I'm assuming, but if you could, could you explain what the greenhouse is and what the potential plan is for the development there? [4:17] Mayor Wayne Boucher: I believe "The Greenhouse" is what we've given a name for the properties to be redeveloped. Mr. Mulder? [4:33] John Mulder: So just in terms of what we've talked about is the possibility of being redeveloped would be on the north end of that property, 26 single-family homes, and on the South Side it would be potentially two apartment buildings of approximately 140 units each. So I've got that number right—140 each. [4:56] Vivian Gangle: Okay. For a scale reference, what is the current building over here? Do we know the area? [5:05] John Mulder: The Eora apartment is 120, 128, 148? [5:11] Brian LeBlanc: 148. [5:13] John Mulder: So similar in size to them. [5:16] Vivian Gangle: Similar to the Eora. So it'd be like a similar number but would be designed differently. And I thought I read somewhere that you are working on or potentially looking at redoing part of Hermantown Road? [5:20] John Mulder: Sure. So along with that, we would expect some public infrastructure improvements. That public infrastructure improvements would be a connection of water and sewer from Anderson to Hermantown Road, an internal road connecting Anderson and Hermantown Road through the development, a trailhead parking lot, and a gazebo as part of the trail that ends right there at Hermantown Road. And then we also talked about redoing Hermantown Road from Haynes to Okerstrom, and we talked about doing that curb and gutter and sidewalk, and the sidewalk would be on the north side of the road. [6:06] Vivian Gangle: Would you widen Hermantown Road? [6:09] John Mulder: The road might be widened with paved shoulders because it would have curb and gutter, but it would not be moved to four lanes or anything like that. It would still be two lanes. There might be a turn lane in there but it's scheduled to be a two-lane road. We've talked about the alignment of the internal road and where that might come out on Hermantown Road. We think it'd be better if it did not come out at the current Engwalls driveway site, which is at the bottom of the hill and at the curve, so we've talked about the possibility of having that connect on Hermantown Road at a different location. [6:52] Vivian Gangle: Oh, okay. But that has not been finalized? [6:55] John Mulder: No. [6:55] Vivian Gangle: Okay. So is this project—has it been approved? [6:58] Mayor Wayne Boucher: No, no, we're still in— [7:01] Vivian Gangle: Will that come before the public again? [7:02] John Mulder: Yes. The project specifically has to come for what's called a Commercial and Industrial Development Permit, or sometimes shortened to a CIDP, for apartments in a commercial zone, and that would have to go to the Planning Commission. [7:21] Vivian Gangle: Do you know about the time frame for this project? [7:24] John Mulder: They would have to file an application. That application deadline for the September meeting is closed, so there's not a September meeting. At the earliest, that would happen is the Planning Commission in October. [7:37] Mayor Wayne Boucher: Okay. And so to be clear Mr. Mulder, there is no current application for a project? [7:42] John Mulder: There's no current application. But also just to be clear is that the CIDP is approved at Planning and Zoning. That permit does not come to the City Council. A development agreement for them building part of the infrastructure as part of the development agreement would come to the City Council at some point in time between now and before they could do anything. [8:14] Vivian Gangle: Okay. Okay, thank you very much. [8:21] Mayor Wayne Boucher: Thank you. [8:24] Peggy Houston Harry: My name is Peggy Houston Harry and I live at 3773 King Creek Lane. My concern with this whole project is safety issues, and I have brought that up at other meetings. When I looked on your web page it said "Hermantown is noted for its rural and quiet community." What I just heard was 306 more units coming across the street and I question how is that going to be considered rural and quiet? You kind of answered a lot of the questions I had but I guess one of the questions that really—and I don't know if you can even answer this—is how will the increase in traffic affect the residents of Hermantown Road? And I'm thinking ahead, and I'm thinking ahead of the Blatnik Bridge going down for three years, so Stebner and Haynes are basically gateways up to the shopping area here from West Duluth area—the worst part of town. So how will that be? [9:44] John Mulder: The traffic specifically relative to the Blatnik Bridge change has not been studied at all in Hermantown. Don't know that answer. But it would not impact any decision based upon what would happen at the site. We have not done a specific traffic study for any of the proposed development at this point. [10:04] Peggy Houston Harry: Well, I've seen an impact just with the road work and I think probably you guys have all seen that too, so it has gotten pretty crazy. And then how will this affect businesses on this road? If there is that many families using Hermantown Road to go to work and to come home, what about our two daycare centers that are right on Hermantown Road? What about the church? What about the auto body shop or whatever they do on the corner? [10:46] John Mulder: Again, we haven't done a specific traffic study on that, but it is anticipated that with the expansion of Hermantown Road with the curb, gutter, and sidewalk and paved shoulders, that it should be able to handle any traffic there. [11:08] Peggy Houston Harry: So there won't be backlogs? I mean there's already lights on Haynes—I mean will they go? Can you get on the road even? [11:21] Mayor Wayne Boucher: I don't know that answer. Traffic issues would be looked at when the process of planning goes through. Now it goes to Planning and Zoning and then some of it comes to City Council for the infrastructure improvements, but those aren't defined yet. We have to have an application first and proceed, and this is the first step in that process. But we're looking at doing road work on Hermantown from Haynes to Okerstrom which we hope would handle any increase or any problems and handle increase in the road into the future as a result of that work. So we're not just planning for this; we would plan for the future. But right now there is no plan and that would be subject to public input as we go forward. [12:18] Peggy Houston Harry: So with the increased traffic, how will that affect the response time with emergency vehicles? And that is concerning especially for our community because we've got a lot of older people. And there are many assisted living and memory care facilities in Hermantown—quite a few—which often have medical emergencies. Then, do we have adequate police and firemen to handle this big load, this bigger load? [12:47] Mayor Wayne Boucher: We have plans right now to improve our Fire Department and we're looking at methods for our Police Department at this time. So the number and quantity of police and fire protection is based on the needs in the community, and that is our responsibility to increase as the need increases. [13:04] Peggy Houston Harry: What about the Hermantown schools? [13:08] Mayor Wayne Boucher: But that they're not—this is not a school meeting now, but the School District will be asked to weigh in on this when it comes forward. [13:17] Peggy Houston Harry: And so then it kind of comes all down to how does the average Hermantown citizen tax base— [13:38] Mayor Wayne Boucher: We can't answer that. Values go up and tax base goes up. Hopefully, that mitigates any increases in property taxes. [13:48] Peggy Houston Harry: I did review your website and the survey, and it was interesting that I found really something I guess I wasn't aware of... it had to do with seniors over 75 years of age and you have quite a few of them, and also that women with disabilities were one of the lower income people struggling with finances. So it appears that we need housing, but do we need it in the $1,800 to $2,400 bracket? I mean, is that going to help your citizens? I don't know. Well, it's not going to help the people that really need it. So yeah, disability rate among poor females was higher than the state of Minnesota... and I and there was something too about male residents 55 to 64 years old also at the poverty level, which I was surprised at that one. But so the seniors are kind of not doing as well as the younger people is what kind of this survey showed me. Okay. But I moved here almost 20 years ago because it was rural and because it was quiet and I just question, can we keep that? [15:53] Mayor Wayne Boucher: We will try. [15:55] Peggy Houston Harry: I mean I'm not against progress but it needs to be the right progress. So I guess that's all I have. Thank you. [16:03] Rod Celine: Please state your name and address for the record? Rod Celine, 3296 North Little Alden Lake Road, and I am associated with the Engwall property. And I can speak to some facts on traffic that—when Engwalls was operating. It has not operated in 21 months and so things have been quiet for 21 months. Prior to that, we built the Garden Center in 2003 as a separate facility that was below the main greenhouse and the retail floral. As an example, in the months of May and June, we would generate about 5,000 transactions a month at the Garden Center and so that would be roughly 160 vehicles in and out on a daily basis during the months of May and June. And we were open July—excuse me—and August as well. Sales were down, there would not have been as much traffic. That's just the Garden Center that I'm talking about; it didn't include retail floral, which certainly we did not generate that kind of traffic, but there are customers in every day. We would have had up until the Garden Center closed at the end of the season 2021, we would have had employees anywhere from 25 to 40 employees at that location every day as well, so you can add that in. Our trucks would be delivering out of that location on a daily basis as well; usually, each truck would go out three times. And so you know, Engwalls generated a fair amount of traffic out of that location. When we operated the corn maze for about 10 years from I think 2010 until 2019 or thereabouts—and that was just on weekends generally—probably the most that happened there would have been a day that we had 1,500 people come through the corn maze. And as some may remember, the whole front yard of the greenhouse property in front of the house was filled with cars. And so those are just some facts from a traffic point of view. I'm not making a comparison, but Engwalls did generate a significant amount of traffic up until the time that I ceased to operate. Thank you. [19:08] Mayor Wayne Boucher: Thank you. Is there anyone else that wishes to comment? Anyone online? If anyone wishes to comment please start with your name and address. Any hands up or anything, Joe, and online? [19:35] Joe Wicklund: Nothing online, Mayor. [19:41] Mayor Wayne Boucher: Well, we will have one last opportunity and call for public comment if anyone wishes to comment please state your name and address. With that, we will close the public comment and move to the resolution. Resolution 2023-121: Resolution of the City of Hermantown modifying Municipal Development District number one, approving the modified development program therefore establishing Tax Increment Financing District number two, the Greenhouse, a redevelopment district, and approving the tax increment financing plan therefore with Municipal Development District number one. Do we have a motion? [20:30] Andy Hjelle: Motion to approve. [20:32] Mayor Wayne Boucher: Motion by Councilor Hjelle. Is there a second? [20:34] John Geissler: I'll second. [20:36] Mayor Wayne Boucher: By Councilor Geissler. Any questions or comments by Council at this time? [20:43] John Geissler: I had one—actually two. Is the Greenhouse legal non-conforming or is its own commercial? [20:53] John Mulder: The existing business there was legal non—if I understand this right—was legal non-conforming because at the time that was there it was not zoned commercial. It was subsequently zoned commercial after that. [21:10] John Geissler: Okay. The other question I had was since that road will be going through from Hermantown to Anderson, has there been any thought to updating Anderson to handle a larger traffic load out to Haynes? [21:26] John Mulder: We haven't at this point. We have talked about that in terms of the road improvement plan at some point in time in the future, but at this point as part of this development, it has not been discussed. [21:38] John Geissler: Okay, because if traffic's backed up to the apartment, that's where they're going to be going, right? People just going the other way. [21:40] Brian LeBlanc: I had a question. From the original timeline of this, would it have been expected to have an application in as of now? [21:47] John Mulder: It's a little bit unusual in so much that usually we have an application for the development before we do the TIF plan. We are doing this... it is a little bit unusual. The developer has said that they feel like they have to have a TIF plan approved so they go to the bank to show that the finances are going to work. [22:18] Mayor Wayne Boucher: Any other questions from Council? Roll call please. [22:25] Alissa McClure: Councilor Hjelle? [22:26] Andy Hjelle: Aye. [22:27] Alissa McClure: Councilor LeBlanc? [22:28] Brian LeBlanc: Aye. [22:29] Alissa McClure: Councilor Jones? [22:30] Councilor Jones: Aye. [22:31] Alissa McClure: Councilor Geissler? [22:32] John Geissler: Aye. [22:33] Alissa McClure: Mayor Boucher? [22:34] Mayor Wayne Boucher: Aye. Next, we have no correspondences to highlight. Mr. Mulder, could you give us just a short version of the presentations that we received at pre-agenda? [22:48] John Mulder: So our Finance Director presented the second quarter financials just to kind of see where we're at with the budget and where we are with our money and our investments. We talked briefly about the 2024 general fund budget expenditures. This is just a general fund, but expenditures right now are scheduled at—it'll be about a 15% increase. We gave an update on the Fichtner Park plans that would have improvements at Victor Park phase three, potential phases or projects for that and what the sources and uses of that would be. And then Joe Wicklund and Jeremy Katruba from the Y gave an update in terms of the Central Wellness Center and the level of activity that they have had. [23:37] Mayor Wayne Boucher: Thank you. And now we have public discussion. This is the time for individuals to address the Council on anything that is not on the agenda. We will have a separate time for public input during each item on the agenda that we vote on this evening. Is there any general public discussion? If so, please state your name and address for the record. Is there any public discussion this evening? Is there any general public discussion tonight? We will close the public discussion and move on to the consent agenda. This consent agenda is for the minutes approval or correction of the August 7th, 2023 City Council continuation minutes and accounts payable in the amount of $1,538,496.97. Is there a motion? [24:43] John Geissler: Motion. [24:45] Mayor Wayne Boucher: Motion by Councilor Geissler. Do we have a second? [24:48] Councilor Jones: Second. [24:49] Mayor Wayne Boucher: Second by Councilor Jones. Roll call please. [24:52] Alissa McClure: Councilor Hjelle? [24:53] Andy Hjelle: Aye. [24:54] Alissa McClure: Councilor LeBlanc? [24:55] Brian LeBlanc: Aye. [24:56] Alissa McClure: Councilor Jones? [24:57] Councilor Jones: Aye. [24:58] Alissa McClure: Councilor Geissler? [24:59] John Geissler: Aye. [25:00] Alissa McClure: Mayor Boucher? [25:01] Mayor Wayne Boucher: Aye. Next is resolution 2023-117: Resolution approving change order number 10 through 12 for Road Improvement Project 534, Uggstad and Arrowhead Roads. Is there a motion? [25:12] Councilor Jones: Make a motion to approve. [25:15] Mayor Wayne Boucher: Motion by Councilor Jones. Do we have a second? [25:17] Andy Hjelle: Second. [25:18] Mayor Wayne Boucher: Second by Councilor Hjelle. Mr. Mulder? [25:21] John Mulder: So we have three change orders. The first one is one that we had talked about previously where we ran into situations where there was less asphalt than we thought and we had to do some additional work on certain sections of the road. Number 11 was just some changes in the way a couple of fire hydrants [were placed], and then 12 was putting in some additional pipe for a residential connection on the south side of Arrowhead Road. The resident paid for that already. [26:02] Mayor Wayne Boucher: Thank you. Any questions from Council? Hearing none, is there any public input on this resolution? Is there any public input on resolution 2023-117? Is there any public input on the resolution for change orders number 10 through 12 for the Arrowhead and Uggstad road project? Roll call please. [26:40] Alissa McClure: Councilor Jones? [26:41] Councilor Jones: Aye. [26:42] Alissa McClure: Councilor Geissler? [26:43] John Geissler: Aye. [26:44] Alissa McClure: Councilor Hjelle? [26:45] Andy Hjelle: Aye. [26:46] Alissa McClure: Councilor LeBlanc? [26:47] Brian LeBlanc: Aye. [26:48] Alissa McClure: Mayor Boucher? [26:49] Mayor Wayne Boucher: Aye. Resolution 2023-118: Resolution approving pay request number three for Road Improvement District number 534 to Uhlen Brothers Incorporated in the amount of $701,814.09. Do we have a motion? [27:05] John Geissler: I'll move to approve. [27:08] Mayor Wayne Boucher: Motion by Councilor Geissler. Is there a second? [27:10] Brian LeBlanc: Second. [27:11] Mayor Wayne Boucher: Second by Councilor LeBlanc. Mr. Mulder? [27:12] John Mulder: This is the next pay request for the road work that's being done on Uggstad. [27:17] Mayor Wayne Boucher: Thank you. Any questions or comments from Council? Is there any public input on this resolution? Is there any public input on resolution 2023-118? If anyone wishes to comment on this resolution, please start with your name and address. Roll call please. [27:48] Alissa McClure: Councilor Hjelle? [27:49] Andy Hjelle: Aye. [27:50] Alissa McClure: Councilor LeBlanc? [27:51] Brian LeBlanc: Aye. [27:52] Alissa McClure: Councilor Jones? [27:53] Councilor Jones: Aye. [27:54] Alissa McClure: Councilor Geissler? [27:55] John Geissler: Aye. [27:56] Alissa McClure: Mayor Boucher? [27:57] Mayor Wayne Boucher: Aye. Next is resolution 2023-119: Resolution approving pay request number two for Road Improvement District number 538 to Uhlen Brothers Incorporated in the amount of $344,444.04. Do we have a motion? [28:13] Brian LeBlanc: Move to approve. [28:14] Mayor Wayne Boucher: Motion by Councilor LeBlanc. Is there a second? [28:15] Andy Hjelle: Second. [28:16] Mayor Wayne Boucher: Second by Councilor Hjelle. Mr. Mulder? [28:17] John Mulder: This is the second pay request for the work being done in the Hermantown Marketplace. Primarily, this is in the road work that's been done on Linden Road at this point. [28:31] Mayor Wayne Boucher: Thank you. Any questions or comments from Council? [28:35] John Geissler: I should have asked—I asked about the other projects. This project is still scheduled to be done this fall? [28:44] John Mulder: Yes, we've had a little bit of delay here because of a utility relocate on the part of the telephone company, but we're hoping to get back on schedule this week. [28:54] John Geissler: Okay, thank you. And the frontage road is included in that? [28:57] John Mulder: The frontage road is included in that. [28:59] Mayor Wayne Boucher: Thank you. Is the frontage road the one that runs like kind of the Kwik Trip in front of Jersey City? Okay, yeah. And that's going to be—that'll just be concrete? [29:08] John Mulder: It'll look like an extension of the Fleet Farm—not Fleet Farm, Kwik Trip's parking lot. [29:13] Brian LeBlanc: I almost had to use four-wheel drive in there the other day. [29:16] Mayor Wayne Boucher: Thank you. Is there any public input on this resolution? Is there any public input on resolution 2023-119? Any public input on the approval of pay request number two for Road Improvement District number 538? Roll call please. [30:00] Alissa McClure: Councilor Hjelle? [30:01] Andy Hjelle: Aye. [30:02] Alissa McClure: Councilor LeBlanc? [30:03] Brian LeBlanc: Aye. [30:04] Alissa McClure: Councilor Jones? [30:05] Councilor Jones: Aye. [30:06] Alissa McClure: Councilor Geissler? [30:07] John Geissler: Aye. [30:08] Alissa McClure: Mayor Boucher? [30:09] Mayor Wayne Boucher: Aye. Resolution 2023-120: Resolution accepting a proposal for engineering services with a total not to exceed contract amount of $233,880 for Fichtner Park improvements as part of the Community Recreation Initiative from Northland Consulting Engineers. Do we have a motion? [30:23] Brian LeBlanc: I'll move to approve. [30:25] Mayor Wayne Boucher: Motion by Councilor LeBlanc. Is there a second? [30:28] Councilor Jones: Second. [30:28] Mayor Wayne Boucher: Second by Councilor Jones. Mr. Mulder? [30:29] John Mulder: So as we talked about in pre-agenda and as we've talked about the Community Recreation Initiative, this is the proposal to do just the base plan engineering—both design and construction engineering—for that baseline that would turn the two fields, create an artificial turf baseball field, and just do that part of the park. [31:01] Mayor Wayne Boucher: Thank you. Any questions or comments from Council? Councilor Geissler, you have one? [31:06] John Geissler: I have two. This also includes some engineering for lighting and architecture for some pavilion-type buildings? [31:13] John Mulder: Yeah, so as part of that proposal there's a subcontract for the electrical work in terms of pole lights and things like that and also for the concession stand area. [31:27] John Geissler: And my other comment is that my son works for Northland Consulting Engineers and the result of this contract has no financial benefit for my son or for me. [31:39] Mayor Wayne Boucher: Thank you. Any other questions or comments from Council? [31:44] Brian LeBlanc: That money comes out of the sales tax allocated to that project, right? [31:47] John Mulder: Yes, this is all funded by sales tax. [31:50] Mayor Wayne Boucher: Anything else from Council? Any public comment on this resolution? Any public comment on resolution 2023-120? Last opportunity for public comment on the resolution. Roll call please. [32:16] Alissa McClure: Councilor Geissler? [32:17] John Geissler: Aye. [32:18] Alissa McClure: Councilor Hjelle? [32:19] Andy Hjelle: Aye. [32:20] Alissa McClure: Councilor LeBlanc? [32:21] Brian LeBlanc: Aye. [32:22] Alissa McClure: Councilor Jones? [32:23] Councilor Jones: Aye. [32:24] Alissa McClure: Mayor Boucher? [32:25] Mayor Wayne Boucher: Aye. Next is a closed session. A motion to close the meeting of the Hermantown City Council pursuant to Minnesota Statute 13D.03 to consider confidential information related to labor negotiation strategy. Following this closed session, the Hermantown City Council will reconvene in an open session. Do we have a motion? [32:51] John Geissler: Motion to move to closed session. [32:53] Mayor Wayne Boucher: Motion by Councilor Geissler. Do we have a second? [32:54] Councilor Jones: Second. [32:55] Mayor Wayne Boucher: Second by Councilor Jones. All in favor say aye. [32:57] Councilors: Aye.