so I will call this meeting of December 7th plan commission to order and uh first I will since we don't have word from our technical facilitator this time um I will go to Communications disclosures and recusals members of the body should make any required disclosures or recusals under the city's ethics code are there any disclosures or recusals I'm going to have to get used to not having everybody's space on a screen here so okay so no um no uh disclosures or recusals um and I don't think we have anything under agenda item one um there's a few things that I want to just make sure that everybody is aware of if uh people did not uh sign in electronically or have not signed a Green Sheet yet but want to speak be sure and do um uh a green uh sheet when you speak this includes plan Commissioners as well as members of the public be sure and be close enough to the microphone so that uh we're we're recording this and uh it's videoing to make sure that your voice is going to be is going to be heard so make sure you do that then also I want to um just remind people that no final decisions are going to be made tonight this is a time for the plan commission to hear what people have to say and to have informal discussion to get briefed on uh uh thoughts about um the sustainability plan and about the area plans here from staff on what has been going on and uh what some of the issues are that we will eventually have to uh make a recommendation on um one other thing I'm going to say is because we have so many registrants tonight which is kind of unusual for our special meetings like this um we are not going to go ahead with the um item that we had on the agenda in regard to demolitions we're going to reschedule that um to a different plan commission meeting because one of the things that we do is for these special meetings is we strictly adhere to uh stopping the meeting at 8:00 uh so we are not going to go ahead with that particular item um and with that um and we are going to take all testimony first up um so um that will allow people who do not want to stay around for our sustainability Plan update um if you're only interested in the uh West plan or Northeast plan uh then you can go home and have dinner if you want to so first up we're going to take uh testimony and you of course could watch this um at home if you want to do that too so with that I'm going to turn to Heather and she will be um calling up folks uh who want to talk to the to us and just a reminder 3 minutes and we will strictly adhere to that since we do have a number of things we want to get through all right thank you chair zers uh so I'm going to start with folks who have signed up online earlier uh we have first Tom Jacobs uh in opposition to the public comment and I'm not sure which item Tom is speaking to but of Highlands Avenue and if Tom could come up Tom would be followed by Gwen long is Tom here Tom is not here let's go to uh Gwen long who would be followed by Andrew bent uh Gwen long of so Creek Drive uh in opposition to the west and Northeast area plans where do I and Gwen if you want to sit there the the mics are all on and we'll remain on throughout thank [Music] you okay and you can stand if you prefer it'll probably pick up either standing or sitting fine okay hello my name is Gwen long and I live at 225 Salt Creek Drive and I'm a biker I'm an environmentalist and I'm a local Beer Drinker thank you very much um we're here to represent um the many people who put a lot of time in writing letters to the commission and the Westside area plan the neighbors who have posted over 80 yard signs throughout the west side of Madison and the over 300 citizens who signed a petition opposing a bike path and the many others throughout Madison who strongly oppose a proposed bike path through so Creek Greenway how many of you have had a chance to ever walk through the greenway um it's a beautiful area I really hope you can get through there sometime because it's really just lovely the West area plan States the city of Madison invites you to join us as we create a West area plan we'll work with the residents community community organizations and neighborhoods to chart a course of action for the next 10 years unfortunately no one knew about the plan understood what the plan was was about and why they should get involved so very few unfortunately attended after reading the there was a memo this week from Linda Horvath and Ben Zeller to the commission and after reading that um those who did show up now feel our input might be ignored and minimized um if if you guys had had a chance to attend the last three meetings in November you would have directly seen and heard from the many many many citizens who oppose the bike path it seems that the department heads know better and have their own agendas all planned already and it seems somewhat of a farce for those of us who attended Community meetings at the request of the West area plan in the city of Madison to provide input write letters sign petitions and provide our opinions in today's Wisconsin State Journal the state opinions Court uh held up a denial for the Coler corporation uh to fill in a Wetlands for a golf course two courts found the DNR issued permits that did not have sufficient information to assess whether the project would have sufficient adverse impact to the wetlands and environment the DNR permits were reversed this small group of environmentalists up in Shaban stood up against a multi-million doll Coal Company golf lobbyists and the state DNR and they won does the commission have sufficient accurate information about the tree loss and effects on the environment and nature to support this bike path that is not supported by the community and that was that it was meant to serve our community is here tonight standing up against this this very strong bike Federation Lobby and others inside City Hall we the taxpayers who are most affected seem to get minimized and marginalized for standing up for the climate and environment our neighborhood and democracy please follow the 2020 city of Madison Urban Tree task force plan one of their goals is achieving a tree canopy of coverage of over 40% in 2013 the Madison tree canopy was only 23% sadly 10 years later it is far below that 23 % missing the goal of 40 which is a national average Madison has a big problem with not respecting the importance of trees in our environment thank that does conclude your available time thank you for being here next is Andrew bent of North Highlands Avenue to be followed by ingred Jordan thaden Tom Jacobs is here okay than okay well uh thank you for having us I'm speaking to item 8A about possible uh proactive resoning to remove uh trr designation and there are a few key points about this I'm the president of the Highlands Community Association neighborhood group so I know I I do speak for the entire neighborhood we had 44 out of 113 houses respond to us about this issue and we heard about it on Monday that's a group that's really taken very good care of the Highlands over many decades um and so the key points I want to make are two it's that the highlands is a unique resource in the city as a historic local Landmark it doesn't have that designation but we're prepared to work with people like Heather on that um and the second point is it really is a deao Madison City Park it's heavily used by Walkers who are attracted to the highlands from outside the highlands dozens of people every day weekday dozens of people per hour on weekends this is more pedestrian uh Recreation walking use than any of our uh Westside Madison Parks get until you get maybe over toward uh Wexford or something um so it really is a very attractive local for Madison residents and it depends for that on its historic nature as the work of landscape architect OC Simmons so this is where we can all educate each other of why it's perhaps not a good idea to put uh the trr zoning in the west area plan at this point in time OC Simmons was one of the preeminent Landscape Architects of the early 20th century along with Frederick Law Olstead he's a designer of Morton AR bedom in Chicago Lincoln Park parts of Lincoln Park designer of Tenny Park in Madison designer of Vias Park in Madison and designer of the Highlands in Madison so the highlands is really a special instance of landscape architecture design in the midwestern United States and so that uh uh historic nature and and OC Simmons you can look them up online there biographies of them he's well known um that is a very good reason by itself to consider that we may not want to in essence decimate that work of art if you will a landscape architecture work by removing the large lot size and large setback requirements that were put in with trr zoning so a bit about TR zoning if you look at the statement of purpose um it says in the statement of purpose uh of the zoning code which the city put in the planning department and the council put in about 20 years ago 30 years ago that's established to stabilize and protect the natural beauty historic character and parklike setting of just the highlands basically a wooded low density residential neighbor intended to promote preservation of the neighborhood's historic buildings tree cover and Landscape plan this distri dist is not intended for use and new development thank you very much Andrew that concludes your available time I didn't manage my time well there there's more to share and I'd be happy to share it thank you thank you okay next is ingred Jordan thaden of sot Creek Drive to be followed by Tom Jacobs hello good evening um I'm going to keep my plea short and sweet um my main concern about a bike path through the Salt Creek Greenway is that the lighting will disturb the nocturnal animals that live there um we have a long list we actually don't even know how many different animals or Birds specifically but also mammals that come in and out of the Salt Creek Greenway then there live there throughout the the entire year um and if you put a lighted path through this small little place where will they go so there's no good assessment of what Wildlife is actually there um we just know as neighbors and community members that they're there CU they come out into our yards occasionally we find their scat we find their dead animals we find all kinds of things and that's I worry about where they will go so um I think that the bike paths in our neighborhood are great already and putting a lighted path through through the greenway means the animals have nowhere to go so I could talk about the trees a long time but I'm mainly worried right now about the by path so thank you thank you ingred next is Tom Jacobs of South Highlands Avenue to be followed by George jessian good evening I'm here to uh Echo Andrew bent our Highlands uh homeowners association president basically to uh ask that you not densify the highlands area it was set up gosh in in 1912 by OC Simmons who also had a hand at designing uh the White City in Chicago for the Colombian Exposition in the 1800s but uh it was a very unique thing done and the city embraced it your predecessors embraced this that that the um uh very park-like nature of this neighborhood uh be just a kind of a very unique setting in the in the Midwest and um as Andrew said many from outside of our neighborhood come and use the parks and I actually invite you to come do the same because it's a very unique area where there's a loop and OC Simmons designed it so the roads kind of curved like that so all you see is trees are going up it's not a you know just a laid out plat and there are a lot of pockets of Parkways where there's Pathways uh deeply into the woods and a lot of people use it from from all over the city so I know I've got a very limited time I've been a resident there for almost 20 years and really enjoy uh the unique nature of it and I ask that you you know I know there's a directive to densify the city in the lake but I ask that you make an exception here and not listen to the staff who I have great respect for uh but but go ahead and make a decision to keep the highlands as a park because it's a unique gem that the city has enjoyed for many years like I said your predecessors embraced the idea uh back in the in the 1910s and 19 around 1912 I guess was when the plat went through but um it's a it's what makes our city very unique and you know many I travel a lot for business and many people when I say I'm from Madison I go oh that's the coolest City you know it's and you all know it you know there it's a it's a very unique uh type of um uh uh setting that we have here and I think this is an asset it's a gem and I respectfully request that you keep it that way thank you Tom next is George jessian of Oak Creek Trail to be followed by Edward hmel no George Edward hmel of Whitaker Road to be followed by Dan steer so yeah I'm Edward hmel and I live about a half block from the Salt Creek Greenway I use that Greenway all the time um I'm also an avid cyclist um I've been grateful for all the great bike pass and trails in uh Madison and Dane County however I'm opposed to a bike Trail through the Salt Creek Greenway for two reasons the bike trail wouldn't go anywhere and it also would degrade the resource of the greenway so if you look at that the the part of the bike trail that's built already and back of the brothers main shopping center along Mineral Point Road you go to the southern Terminus of that and you're looking at six Lanes of traffic and the belt line is up there and it's like you know why would you ride a bike there if you want to go to the Target shopping center you have to go across two fairly dangerous Lanes of traffic to get there especially the one the off-ramp coming down uh off of the belt line so it it just to me it it it doesn't serve anything if there was an elementary school at the end of it I'd be all for this bike trail but there isn't it just doesn't go anywhere and you have good bike Lanes on Westfield Road Road on High Point Road Farmington is a 25 or 20 mph road with multiple speed bumps along it Tree Lane is very bikable and so you have it's surrounded The Greenway is surrounded by good alternative bike routes so I I'm perplexed at why they want to build this bike lane through there because it doesn't serve anything on the North or the South End and um you know it it costs a lot to make these things and can't the city of Madison find other uh more useful areas to put in a bike route that's that's my um that's what I'm thinking anyway okay that's all I have okay thank you Edward okay next is Dan steer or Styer Dan okay Chris Gomez Schmidt of Farmington way to be followed by Susie [Music] eeran good evening thanks for the opportunity to address you um I am here to oppose um the addition of bike paths to um the West area plan through the sock Creek Green Space um I would just like to point out that um one of the confusing things um through this process has been and um attending meetings through engineering which is trying to fix the water drainage issues through the Green Space um knowing that there's a a West plan and a bike plan and all these things it almost seems like City agencies aren't talking to each other um about these processes and um it's really hard to tell which decisions are being made in which order and to me this seems like um I took the surveys I participated in meetings and a couple ago I was actually feeling pretty good about this process um in talking with the engineering department and they had stepped back and were really looking at working with the community um to try to um present the engineering plan and come up with the plan in the next steps and so I was pretty confident about that and then all of a sudden a bike plan cropped up and then all of a sudden it wasn't sure if it was going to be lit or who was in charge of it or why it was there um and so so I'm going to urge you before the drainage issues get figured out in this green space and I don't think there is any any doubt that that needs to be fixed um don't commit to putting a bike path through there um there's um right now there's spaces you can't get through um because of the drainage through there and so I would really like to see the engineering department being given a chance to work with the community to problem solve this um in a way the the same way that years ago the um the actual sanitary access um that process um worked with the community um to figure that out um the other point I'll make is that this green space right now um 30 years of neglect by the city um through the green spaces um it has relied on residents to do the upkeep and actually provide um like habitat restoration attention to to the um spring ephemerals and wild flowers that grow there um and trying to do some sort of restoration um it's it's disappointing that forestry hasn't been involved and Parks haven't been involved um because this really does serve as a wildlife Corridor at this point um 30 years ago when it was built there's a lot of space um west of this area um still for wildlife um and now I I feel like it does serve like this tiny narrow Corridor um for kinds of Wildlife and so I I guess you know when the when the surveys are asking us if we want you know interconnected green spaces I'm sort of thinking of it as yes that's important but not for people thank you Chris that concludes your available time thanks thank you all right Susie Akerman of North Highlands to be followed by faith Fitzpatrick hello my name is Susie eer and I live at 6 6209 North Highlands Avenue um I'm here to speak tonight in opposition of rezoning trr to src1 I oppose this change from both the historic and environmental perspective as you know the trr zoning play plays a significant role in protecting the historic nature and park like setting of The Highlands neighborhood the city of Madison historical plan was adopted in by the city in May of 2020 and developed celebrate and preserve the places that represent Madison's Collective history the plan recommends strategies and tools to utilize the existing land zoning and development standards to support preservation preserving historical Landscapes allows us to connect with the past and understand the lives of those that came before us these Landscapes offer tangible evidence of our history reflecting values beliefs practices of different cultures and periods we understand that it's a privilege to to live in a historical setting and we fully believe that we are not the owners but instead stewards of the land it is our responsibility to preserve this history and the beauty so that can be enjoyed by Future generations of Madison residents the plan also States from November 30th that the district does not have any requirements to retain trees as you know the city of Madison is a member of the Daye County tree canopy working group it's a collaboration among local governments planning organiz G ations academic partners and state agencies that aim to identify opportunities and strategies to project existing trees and the expand the tree canopy across Daye County the city of Madison forestry and streets provides tree planting pruning maintenance for over 96,000 trees and 700 miles of Madison streets I would argue that protecting the tree canopy is not an odds with the goals of the city but it's set align with the directive of sustainability and resilience efforts of the mayor's office office that refer to Urban green spaces as essential part of our community's fabric they provide space for recreation connecting with nature areas for plants and animals to thrive and important ecos systems services that provide clean air water air temperature control regulation carbon carbon sequencing and noise reduction our neighborhood has also done its part to preserve the tree canopy and park like setting of our neighborhood since the Community Association was formed all annual meetings have focused on educating residents about planting and preserving native trees as well as informing on removal of invasive species that can affect and be harmful to trees the association has also done bulk tree purchases of native trees and provided planting instructions to the neighbors to help renew and restore the canopy unfortunately even with these efforts Daye county has lost 30% of its tree canopy since 2010 this is an essential this is a precious resource and it's essential that we preserve this thank you for your time thank you Susie okay next is Faith Fitzpatrick of Spring Court to be followed by George [Music] Meyer hi Faith Fitzpatrick um you hear me okay I'm opposed to the bike path in sock Creek uh in putting together my comments this evening I went back and looked at what was on the heading up for the agendas for plan commission it's who benefits who is burdened who does not have a voice and how can policy makers mitigate unintended consequences what my comments here are keyed in on is uh the Water aspect of sock Creek um it also comes up if you look at the water uh issue for being clean and abundant water I think is the second issue that brought up with the sustainability uh plan that shows up um for Stuff tonight as well one of the things with the Saw Creek if you look at a map you can see that the woods are contiguous cover they show up separate from the urban area these Woods have existed for over a hundred years they show up similarly on maps uh at the turn of the century so they predate the Agricultural Development and they also predate the Urban Development so Creek is a creek that runs through those woods it is not a farm ditch as it has been uh mislabeled by some The Greenway is a Waterway um and the forest itself uh provides hydrologic benefits those hydrologic benefits um have not been realized they are not on paper um the bike path uh constricts the uh the floodway and the waterway that goes through the woods um the bike path would constrict it it would constrict it further than has already been currently constricted by the sanitary line uh so this kind of conflicts with as somebody recently mentioned um plans for engineering for flood mitigation through this reach um at the same time we know that the climate has uh changed over the last 50 years since the infrastructure has put in there's been a 17% increase in average precipitation and we know we're going to have more uh frequent um intense rainfalls so bike path is infrastructure infrastructure in a waterway in infrastructure in a flood way uh constricts that flood way it impedes on what uh uh decision making and and uh Alternatives that engineering has to deal with the floods in this um Waterway and just wanted to uh state too that the trees and the channel erosion are not um opposed uh to each other um bike path is going to require maintenance um floods are going to get it it's going to get washed out uh so something's going to have fixed so I'll end there thank you thank you Faith George Meyer a randoff drive uh followed by Susan brugman thank you for this opportunity some background that helps shape my opinions on this I worked for the Department of Natural Resources 32 years served as Secretary for eight and uh during that time had the management responsibilities over a million and a half acres of public lands and dealt with how to manage public lands and the competing good uses that could be made of those lands biking hiking Wildlife uh protection of uh rare species plants and animals my other point of view is I live right across the street from the entrance on Tree Lane into that into the greenway I and I spend a lot of time on my deck in my age and I make all the observations of how that uh is being used it is very being heavily used by hikers um because of its uh natural condition as a lot of wildlife is you heard I see families walking through it our end of U of that uh area is Multicultural uh highly diverse and you see families all the time walk through it we took our grand we take our grandson through it and so Wildlife that he would not have seen other places in the city um the if if a bike path is puty there's going be a loss of trees and the wildlife you will be heavily Disturbed in some cases lost now we just happen to be in that same area you're probably wear with it's in the paper but along Mineral Point when they had to cut down 66 trees to put the bike path in and Alderman tishler fought that on behalf of his constituents got it down in 22 that starts only end of the our block there will be a lot more trees that would have to be cut down we're talking hundreds to put in a bik path uh through this Greenway and there'd be a lot of loss uh to the uh to the natural conditions in addition as was talked about before it'd be contrary to the purposes of this Greenway which is water quality protection because there'll be more uh erosion and uh getting into uh the Water way plus instructions on the flood benefits that this was designed for uh there is not a need for another bike path there as you've heard within a block either way there are bike paths uh that are function very well when I asked why put one in there they said well we can then run a bike path up uh randoff Drive which we see all the time there is a bike path there it is rarely used there's a very very steep inkline the only bikers I see go up there are athletic thank thank you George that doesn't include your available time thank you for being here yes okay next up is Susan bugman of Salt Creek Drive to be followed by Jim long don't know good evening thank you for giving us the chance to speak how we feel about this I too am here opposing the bike path in the Green Way the there will be a significant number of trees removed in order to just clean up the creek which we all know is in serious need as you've heard from the neglect for so many years to put a bike path in there would require taking down so many other trees it will um eliminate a huge number of trees which is not environmentally friendly as you've heard again trees remove carbon dioxide they provide shade a habitat for the vast Wildlife that live there they also red reduce noise pollution and give other benefits the pay path will increase water runoff and it will decrease absorption into the ground a lighted bike path increases light pollution but it does not re reduce police calls other New Paths in Madison have led to an increase and police calls and complaints and we have we've seen that reported so I'm just going to go off at this for a minute and just say my personal experience I don't live right on it but I live close to it I use it almost every single day I walk my dog through there I run into so many other walkers I've seen children playing in there uh they've made these wood teps from branches that have fallen down and they just it's wonderful I mean here they are out in nature learning about nature playing in nature not on their computers and their screens and that sort of thing by the time you put a bike path in you're going to lose so much of what is there it it won't be the same experience at all and I've heard people say well we want people to be able to bike through this wonderful Woods there won't be a Woods there won't be a Woods we won't have all of these wonderful animals the trees everything it's just um a very peaceful wonderful place to enjoy and actually as a walker through there I enjoy the hiking if bikes start coming through there I will no no longer be able to use it myself and I'm sure many other walkers that are older like me will feel the same way because the bikes come whizzing pass is dangerous with my dog we one day just ran into a biker at the edge of the woods and I didn't see the biker but she didn't and she flipped out and uh she dragged me down on the ground so it's it can be dangerous also um um so basically again environmental reasons uh it it's just a gem in our city I moved here from California where you don't get to have such a thing as live by this Nature Center and yet still have all of the conveniences of a city right close by I can walk into the woods or I can walk down the street to get my haircut or go to Walgreens life doesn't get better than that and I would just be devastated to see that go away thank you thank you Susan next is Jim long of Salt Creek Drive to be followed by Nino Amato good evening the proposed bike path would remove a substantial number of additional trees in its construction I am an avid cyclist and enjoy the city's bike system but this path would be redundant to neighbor nearby safe bike paths at a huge environmental cost especially under our current understanding with climate change and experience of global warming I'm reading from Secretary of Transportation Pete budd's 12 reasons why cities need more trees number one temperature control one large tree is equivalent to 10 air conditioning units and the shade they provide can reduce Street temperature by more than 30% number two noise reduction trees can reduce loudness by up to 50% in urban areas filled with the sound of cars construction Sirens Airplanes music trees are essentially the best way to block noise and keep cities quieter number three air Purity trees remove an astonishing amount of harmful pollutants and toxins in the air number four oxygen while absorbing all these pollutants trees also put more oxygen back into the urban environment oxygen levels are significantly lower in cities compared to the countryside trees help solve that problem number five water management trees do more than just shelter us and our buildings from rain they also absorb huge quantities of water reduce runoff neutralize the severity of flooding and make flooding more unlikely altogether number six psychological health studies have proven what we instinctively know to be true that human beings are significantly happier when surrounded by Nature rather rather than sterile Earth Urban environments number seven physical health beyond all the other ways in which trees improve air quality and the environment much to the benefit of our health they also encourage people to go outside number eight privacy a simple point is that trees provide privacy economics number nine the total economic benefit of urban trees is hard to calculate there are costs of course including the repair of infrastructure damaged by roots and maintaining the trees themselves but the total economic benefit outweighs the expenditure number 10 Wildlife trees are Miniature cities all of their own serving as a habitat for hundreds of different species number 11 light pollution trees don't only block the light shining down they also disrupt the light shining up thank you Jim that include your available time thank thank you next is Nino Amato of Oak Creek Trail to be followed by bavani oino is there a bavani of Whitaker Road to be followed by John McGill good evening um first off thanks um for the opportunity to address you guys and please forgive me if I make any grammar mistakes because this is not my first language so I'm a German fluent speaker so sorry for that um I have to Echo all my four uh people who have uh come before me um I'm also opposing the um bike path because of the biodiversity that is going to be um sacrificed um my daughter and I pulled garlic mustard and enjoyed grounding by the trees she has even had her own project after reading the book The Hidden life of trees by p v a German well-known German um environmentalist and Forest ranger I think is the right expression here um which describes the communication of trees they actually commun communicate help other trees survive make them aware that there are dangers out there it's amazing I didn't even know that so when she read that book I was all into trees and we spent a lot of time outside especially during covid and I realized how much we missed nature because we were just running from one thing to another thing and we really did not spend much time outside Co helped us with that which is a good nice side effect of that um but my daughter has grown up to become a really smart young woman and she has been very adamant about um helping trees and helping nature um and I want to help her in that thing because um I'm not going to be um around too much longer than she is obviously um so the more and more we lose green spaces we lose the bio biodivers and the chance for kids and adults um alike to sit in front of instead of sitting in front of screens um to connect with our mother nature um who we need to live my daughter said that half our lungs hang on those branches people um and that got my attention as well in many studies it is shown after I've uh done some research that mental illness will increase the more and more we eradicate nature and we can see it with water there's so much pollution already going on with that so please please I beg of you help us to save a little bit of more green for a little time longer and um the life balance and enhancement um mostly is available through nature and the fauna and Flora mainly trees um and then there's tree bathing you people proba probably all we all know right um it's shindin Yoku has always been a very sought after activity lastly bavani that concludes your available time thank you we all we all can agree that we want to Madison to be good okay next is John Miguel of South Highlands drive to be followed by uh Dan Styer is Dan here now may I ask a question before my time starts um wanted to talk on two separate items tonight uh three minutes total three minutes to three minutes yeah okay um my name is John McGill I live in in the highlands uh We've owned our property for 70 years since the time it was in the town of midleton but long before Madison annexed anything at that time OK Road was a two-lane uh dirt Gravel Road um I oppose the change in in districting of the South Highlands not because of its historical value which I do appreciate and do value but our roads are barely adequate to handle the traffic that exists now they are dangerous they are narrow uh and increasing the density of of habitation in there I think would incre greatly increase risk to the citizens to Children walking in their to school to bikers to bikers who use the bike path and who used South Highlands Avenue to avoid the big U Hill on on the in front of Crestwood School that said I live on the west side of the Cooper Lane bike path I own the property all the way from oldo road to South Highlands Avenue any extension of the Appalachian Trail would not just go by my property it would go through my property nobody has talked to me nobody from the planning commission staff has ever addressed my whether I'm interested in this or not it mentions a proposed redistri or Redevelopment of the area we certainly have not proposed it our neighbors have certainly not proposed it and so I'm wondering where the term proposed Redevelopment even came from Furthermore on the Cooper Lane bike path you have 40 just a little over 40t RightWay that is not adequate to as is the state in the document that was prepared for you adequate to provide a Road between Old Road and South Highlands alongside the Cooper Lane bike path it cannot be done the bike path is a major Wildlife Corridor it is used by large numbers of people it is used by the um Madison Memorial track and and cross country teams as a safe place to run and practice as they come down down the bike path uh so anyway any discussion of changing that into a road I think is a serious mistake thank you thank you okay is there a Dan Styer no sorry okay uh Barry pace is next of North Highlands Avenue to be followed by Jenny White this when you're done thanks I just have a couple of brief comments I live on North Highlands Avenue I'm I'm not in favor of the rezoning and you've heard many good comments but I'm thinking of it in a in a broader sense from the overall benefit to the city of Madison I know the city has many goals I appreciate how difficult your job could be one of the goals Under The Heading of sustainability is is to m maintain improve expand our Park system we're lucky as a city we have a wonderful Park system similarly with the tree canopy under the sustainability objectives there are goals to improve sustain expand our tree canopy in the city well the highlands offers both of those the highlands supports both of those goals and certainly if you've been to the highlands you know it is not a core traffic area it's a very low traffic area increasing the density in the highlands frankly isn't going to do much for the other very important goal which is many people want to move to our city they need places to live and that certainly is to be respected it's a critical goal for this great City that we live in but there are other goals competing goals that I just mentioned a moment ago the other and the only other comment I want to make is to my knowledge and I could be wrong but to my knowledge the highlands is the only neighborhood with a TR zoning it's Unique it's historic it's not going to do much for the density goals but it's going to work against the tree canopy goals it's going to work against our sustainability goals when it comes to Parks as you've heard many people use it as if it were a park we have three Parks I don't know if you know that but we have three parks within the highlands and the highlands with was designed to be an extension of those Parks so many things to consider thank you thank you Barry next is Jenny white of Oak Creek Trail to be followed by amido [Applause] Greco good evening I'm here in opposition to a bike path in the sock Creek Greenway I'm a longtime resident of Madison who until about 2 years ago lived on autopilot I assumed that what was happening around me in the city was going to be acceptable but um I've been spending a lot of time now getting familiar with City operations some something I probably should have done 50 years ago um I've written letters um online to commissions this is my first time actually observing a commission 50 years or so I've lived here um and and so I'm still learning things about the process and I wanted to pose a question that was said much earlier um asking about it's sort of the process of the procedure and you were already asked this question how many of you have actually visited the so Creek Greenway for us that's an extremely consequential decision on whether or not the West area plan should have a bike path in that 26 acre Greenway that is a unique ecosystem the other question I had um is that I've written a lot of letters to you online I've had letters published in the Wisconsin State Journal on the OP ED page um I've attended some meetings but I'm wondering do you actually get a chance to read all those letters that come into the commission I know a lot of you are volunteers but that's what I would hope you would be able to do as a citizen who is very concerned about this particular decision that you actually can read all the letters or do you have staff that no Liddell no no staff yeah no everybody those letters go into everybody's mailbox and everybody tries to get them read before making consequential decisions right okay I feel a little bit better about that um everybody else who has spoken in opposition to The Greenway has said things more elegantly more eloquently than I have I just wanted to speak from the heart tell you that I'm trying to be a good citizen I'm trying to be supportive of the commissions that represent me and be more knowledgeable about how the process works and so I thank you for volunteering I know it's a big job thank you Jenny okay our last registered speaker is Amo Greco of South Highlands Avenue I'm a meteor Greer I live in the highlands I've lived there for about 20 years and I guess I have a question for everybody on the commission first of all I want to thank the people I talked to today they were very helpful I know it's a busy day I learned a lot so I wanted to thank you in the beginning but I'm just sitting here and I could only think of one question the one question is this and it's why why would anyone want to destroy the character of the Highlands that's what we're talking about the character of the Highlands as far as I know there's no other place like it it's like a park people come near from all over the city I think particularly in the spring to walk around I tell people it's like living in man Aqua who would guess you're living in a city of 200,000 th people our character will be destroyed by this and there's no need for that that's the first point the second Point involves highways I talk yeah highways sidewalks as I understand it the commission will follow or wants to follow a policy of installing sidewalks that's part of what makes the character of the Highland as far as I know people have not been injured I'll look into it I'm going to call up the Department of Transportation if people have not been injured then what's the purpose that's going to take away our character for what you're going to waste money on something we don't need I mean where's the need for this your history your policy someone told me people at Spring Harbor were very happy to get their sidewalk which is good we're not Spring Harbor we have about 95 houses as far as I know no one from the commission has ever spoken to any of us asking us what what we think are sidewalks and that's inexplicable it's our property you want to put something on our property that we don't need so I don't want to talk anymore other than when you make your decisions I think you have to answer why are we going to destroy the character of the Highlands why are we going to spend tens of thousands of dollars on sidewalks when the residents don't want them and then I think you can make your decision but I think you got to answer the question of why thank thank you thank you Amo um so next I would like to ask Commissioners if you have questions of any of our registrants I don't see anybody so indicating I do have one question myself of Andrew bent [Music] Andrew um I'm wondering uh several people have spoken of the historical character and we have several local historic districts in the city um what has been done toward um designating the highlands as a local historic district I mean why isn't it it's a great question and that's one of the things our neighborhood is very happy to work with the city staff on uh I spoke with Linda Horvath and Ben I'm going to mess up his last name who suggested we speak with Heather Riley I believe is it I say that correct Bailey I'm sorry Heather Bailey um and that we pursue this so apparently the landmarks commission already has the highlands on there a short list of this is things we ought to be getting to so this point is a good point you raised and apparently it's already on the minds of City staff and we'd be more than happy to work with them on that the trick is that it's not architectural preservation it's land character it's landscape architecture preservation so it's a little bit different than you know there are historic houses a number of historic houses in the highlands focus is really on preserving the large lot sizes and the that is one thing that it it can be done based upon that kind of fantastic and it would take uh resid City staff are not going to do it it would take residents to do it so I would encourage um since that is something that was mentioned by a number of people that you do go ahead and pursue if that's something that you care about so I think we're likely to although we can't do it without the zoning that preserves the large lot sizes otherwise the the historic character is lost uh it can be done without the zoning uh remaining as it is so just as a point of information so yeah we're aware of accessory dwelling units and of of ways of tucking in additional housing but we're saying that that a blanket policy that establishes a 0.18 that answers my questions and I and I do encourage you to go ahead and and explore that yeah thank you very much any other questions before any questions of any of the other registrant okay and I don't think we have to close it because it's not really a regular public hearing okay so then um we will move on and next on our agenda um is the sustainability Plan update so do you want to introduce yourself to everybody and uh then get into it yes absolutely so um hello everyone um I'm Jessica Price I'm the sustainability and resilience manager here at the city of Madison I see some familiar faces and some new faces so thank you so much for inviting us to speak with you tonight I'm joined by Greg B who's our sustainability program coordinator one of our sustainability program coordinators um and co-lead for this initiative to update the city of Madison's sustainability plan um I just want to do a quick Time Track CH chair zers how long would you like me to I can be a presentation goldfish I'll take up the space I'm given um 45 minutes 45 minutes okay thank you so much yeah yeah um so as you some some of you might be aware um that the city of Madison's last sustainability plan was adopted in 2011 and so now we're taking the opportunity to update that plan so it's current with um in reflexing the accomplishments that we've made as well as our Direction going forward so tonight I just want to share with you some of our um the updates about our process and get your feedback on um where we are right now so this diagram is really small um in this format but I'll just it's really here to illustrate that we're in the middle of a of a five what we're calling a five-phase process those first three phases were to develop the draft goals and actions that were steered on the agenda tonight so back in 2019 the sustainable Madison committee um took it upon um themselves to start the conversation about this decadal update of our sustainability plan and um they are really responsible for getting in that those this draft that we have before us tonight um and that's the draft that we as sustainability staff have taken out to the community um to get a lot of community input on um so in the first phase you'll see that first circle on the far left that that was all within the sustainable Madison Committee in phase two that initial draft went out to um uh staff members as well as local experts and others the committee um interfaced with a lot of different folks to make sure that it was reflective of what staff we doing right now what are the things we've accomplished what we want to do moving forward um and then all of that input got um integrated into developing draft two and again that's what the draft that um is attached the agenda that is a draft that we've been leading a process to get public input on um we doing a lot of Engagement there um so I'll walk you through a couple of the things that we've done um to get input into improve draft two so the first is a gap analysis so the Gap analysis is really making sure that we're looking across um similar communities that have um sustainability plans and climate action plans to really say what do we know that we don't know what are things that are in these plans that we can learn from whether it's how the the plan is structured how it communicates things or if there are goals and actions that these other communities are highlighting in their plans that would be appropriate for us to adapt for Madison and include in our plan um so we chose five communities you'll see some of those are close to home and have a lot of similarities with Madison um an Arbor Michigan Milwaukee for example Austin Texas um Richmond Virginia and I would say Austin and Los Angeles are these two examples of bigger cities that have some really um Innovative um climate action or sustainability plans that we wanted to look to to say what are the leaders doing right they're bigger than us they're going to have bigger budgets than us they have different challenges that we do but they think there's a lot we can learn from them so that Gap analysis is currently underway so our um we are working with two Consultants right now as part of this process um so our Consultants are working through this Gap analysis and we'll be getting the results of that to see what are the the major um takeaways from that they're also helping us lead this community engagement the purposes of our community engagement there's several different purposes um some of them are to get the word out and build excitement and momentum that we are updating this plan and to let folks know that we're doing it um we're really trying to gather the community's vision and really lead an inclusive process so we're hearing from a lot of folks about what do you think Madison can lead on what are you think are the biggest sustainability challenges we have um what do you think are priorities and so those are some of the um questions that we've been asking along the way and we're really trying to make sure that we are um being able to communicate the positive impacts that Madison can can make within our wheelhouse so we as a city through the levers that we have how can we advance sustainability and climate action um and that's a really important way to remember of that we're trying to ground this updated plan um the plan from 2011 had goals and actions that other entities would take so the school district would do this or the businesses will do that and this plan is really focused on what the city of Madison can do what is within our wheelhouse to be taking action on so we've have a sort of a three-pronged approach so we've been having these stakeholder conversations which are really um those are more like focus groups so some of you have participated in some of those focus groups and that's kind of the inspiration for the conversation we want to lead you through um this evening um we've been having some popup events those are those have closed now that the weather has turned cold but we had some really great experiences um having sort of a a tabling event where we go out into the community and talk with folks that are um at the farmers market or at the um the science on the Square events and then we had this CommunityWide survey that just closed in um in mid November and that Community Wide survey was available in four languages um it was open for two months I think um and we got and I'll I'll give you a little bit more information about the um responses we got there so we also backed all of this up with a lot of physical and digital marketing material so folks would know that this is happening um so we distributed to many many partners um many partner organizations our olders um anyone who would accept it pretty much our marketing toolkit to say hey please share this on your blogs on your social um put flyers up in your neighborhood or your coffee shop to let folks know this update is happening and really to drive people to that survey we also had yard sign stickers Flyers social media examples postcards um and we're really excited about the response that we got from this survey so we had over 1,600 folks take the survey um most of those survey responses were in English but we did have responses to the Chinese and Spanish versions as well um we had um over 600 people participate at our popup events at our activities there and we had more than 60 people um participate in our focus groups too whoop sorry so this is just kind of an idea of the reach of that public engagement that we got just to inform this draft and of course this isn't the last time we want to be able to hear from people right but this is really to get all of those good ideas that will go into an updated draft of the plan so our community survey um asked some specif had some open-ended questions and it had some more specific like ranking questions and so some of our open-ended questions will just give you an idea of what we're hearing some of the um we're still working to get the um responses to the Spanish and Chinese um language responses the survey translated so this is not going to be and we're still analyzing all of those results so this is not going to be a full report out of what the survey responses tell us but this is sort of a very high level um what we're kind of hearing about and so you know you can sort of see that some things are popping here um green energy Transportation Lakes um we heard a lot from folks um around these really big topics and then we heard some more specific things um about what's sort of what sustainability and what a green Madison um means to people and the good news is there's a lot of these topics are covered in our draft already um at our pop-up events we had two of those one was the um Farmers Market on the Square that was in October uh beginning of October and then later in October we were at the Wisconsin Science Festival um the we had a pom pom exercise and by pom poms I mean they're like you might have seen them in children's craft boxes they're these like little floofy balls and and everybody who um came to participate in our activity um was able to kind of let us know the sustainability topics these chapter topics that we have the plan um that we have the plan organize in right now which of those topics is like most resonates with you and so this is some of our early results from those exercises and so we'll see that um there was consistency there was a lot of consistency across the two different activities we saw that quality affordable and sustain stainable housing really resonates with folks in our community that's something they feel very strongly about that's really important to their lives clean abundant water um came in uh you know pretty consistent as a one of our top three and then sustainable Transportation um and interestingly the one and two um housing and transportation or buildings and vehicles are are two of our top sources of greenhouse gas emissions in our city and so it's it part of what this tells me is this is really clear that people are really engaged people are really on board with this tackling those sources of emissions and making sure that those are benefiting in the ways of having sustainable transportation and quality affordable housing so you see those are those are the kind of votes with their with their um pom poms that people kind of let us know what you know their what is resonating most with them on that particular day in their personal lives the other things that we kind of learn from this are that and we try to be really clear this was people was said this is really hard this is a hard thing for us to do to think about and prioritize um but it's useful for us to really be able to see like where people feel most engaged already and where they might feel less engaged right now and helps us understand where we might want to be communicating more and engaging with people more about the work that we're doing as a city for some of these topics that may not have resonated so strongly with folks so our stakeholder conversations we had six of those so we had um we we had a focus group with City staff climate and sustainability leaders local businesses and institutions community- based organizations that were outside of the environmental space um as part of their core Mission um Youth and alers and so within each of these we we had a great a several great activities to hear from folks about um where Madison could lead what are potentially some of the barriers how do their groups um how can their groups engage and how can the city better engage with these groups of folks to really um leverage that partner ship and collaboration to achieve the goals and the plan and so that leads us today's activity but before I start that I want to pause ask for questions comments feedback any questions for Jessica not yet not yet okay okay take it away yeah great thank you so we have lost some of our posters the poster that was over here um the way that we kind of structure these and the way that I like to do meetings which might not be how plan commission usually does their meetings I like to get people to get up and move around a little bit and one of the nice ways about an activity like this is that um we can get a we can hear from all of you kind of at once and then we can discuss things that arise from the conversation so what we have are these kind of like three posters around the room the first is asking to think about and to hear from you as folks that are deeply engaged in in planning at the city um what do you think are the biggest opportunities for us as a city to lead on climate action and sustainability so this is you as like members of this body but also you as residents who are engaged in this way and engaged in your personal lives um so I have I give everybody some poits and so you are welcome to um put those opportunities on your poits and put as many up there as you'd like okay I I would like to keep this limited time because of so many other things that we have to do so maybe um people could uh write down two items and put those up and then we can move on that's perfect that's great and these are these are Anonymous if you have a suggestion that you want follow up with just put your name on there and we'll we'll reach back out to you um because love and I've got a bunch of things so I'll meet with you offline then absolutely oh she said you all could have two posted but she's like I'm gonna give you yeah so and anybody else is free to reach out absolutely I post all over um so that's the first one and maybe I'll just introduce them all at once so you can kind of think about this do your writing and then put them on your posters so the first is about our biggest opportunities in other um in other focus groups we also asked what are what are our biggest challenges I did not put that explicit here because I need you to be more creative than capacity and funding capacity and funding are challenges that we have across the board with everything we do but if there are particular barriers or challenges to Growing our climate resilience to reducing our greenhouse gas emissions to achieving any of these other goals that you really want to communicate with us please please do I don't want to limit you if you really want to have that but capacity and funding we we know we need more people and we need more money always the second question is what do you see as the role of the plan commission if any in helping to move the city toward accomplishing these goals so knowing the work that you do knowing the kinds of of um initiatives that you're engaged in and decision-making you're engaged in at the city would love to hear from you how we engage you um in achieving these goals and then the last one is a prioritization exercise which I will save until after after we're done with our Post-its so let's do let's do 5 minutes on Post-its I'll set a timer or can you set a timer if you're already in your timer mode we've kind of lost this we lost this one here so I'm going to go grab thank you I have tape can we to put back up yes please okay that works too [Music] funny okay we were put him up [Music] there [Music] I SS n right H om Mission om I SS i n sounds like it yeah me [Applause] [Music] up okay so the the one on the the right hand side of the room is oper big opportunities and then rooll of plan commission is the one over here so [Music] hungry [Music] did you have anything going in that direction I do have something you want me to take it yeah thanks do you have anything going in another Direction right at the hour oh you're doing great it was the wrong hour it was a different hour than I told you it was me excuse my chair oh I'm I'm sort of Staggering that's okay guess I got to come up with [Music] another you [Music] H I think so Keith is going here the only all those building yeah say something wish you [Music] wasi stress solar panels yeah he just I saw a message from him earlier asking if the time was okay and he was they added something El to my calendar but I was going to be late to do the meeting cuz his calendar is also packed but then um on it everyone he but maybe it's in the recording okay so if so I say Colin I love your holiday outfit I just want to make sure that it gets [Music] recorded I've spent some time up there and when I drive to go pick her up at night like oh there's a dog there's another car it's Terri I'm scared I'm going to kill somebody I'll get that by plan commission hey we're about at the one minute Mark oh for there might be some there might be some flexibility you yeah be here for a little bit longer so make it some extra time come to you later that's right yes if you if you have a dog walking thought later you're like oh I should have put it on a Post-It like just shoot us an email I hav okay so is that everyone's everyone's got their posts up well yeah yeah perfect so many Post-it notes they don't need mine sneak it up later there are some there are some trends that I'm noticing in kind of priorities um not surprising around s commission and thinking about land use and transportation um so there's a there's several cles here around Transportation um the city being a leader in our um in our own buildings so making sure that what we're are building we're building green buildings we're building nzero buildings we're using renewable energy so this is really I like to think about this as us as a business us as our operations leading by example if we're asking our community to be green we need to be doing that same thing and walking the walk so I see that a lot of those Trends here um wondering if anybody wants to share out anything that they put on here or raise a point for discussion the only thing that I would mention is um I have seen too many plans made wonderful plans and then not executed so my thing is you know having the items on it clearly measurable goals articulated well a path forward and responsibility laid out um so that there's a greater possibility or opportunity to achieve um what is desired so that would be one thing and I think that that is the way the city really can um lead on sustainability that's a great piece of feedback and one of the things that we're moving toward in this plan that'll be a little bit of a think an upgrade from the 2011 plan is being really explicit so that every goal has a metric so that we can know where we are now and are we moving toward that goal some of them will be qualitative and some of them will be quantitative but you'll see that among every goal the actions to get there I should say those are flexible so these goals are the what we want to be accomplishing and how we're going to measure success and progress along the way the actions these are our best routes for these accomplishing these goals right now two years from now five years there might be new technology there might be new opportunities that can help us achieve those goals a little ladder up and just because they're not in a plan doesn't mean they might not be our best idea right now right so we do want to build in that flexibility um so that's why we're having those metrics at the goal level of what we need to be doing Jessica can I ask a question that isn't answering your question I probably should have asked it earlier but it kind of relates uh and this can be slightly informal given I read I can't remember where in the materials that the sustainability plan really in uh the comp plan helps to inform the sustainability plan but in my mind it should be the other way around M uh I know that you know we only update the plan every 10 years and well not on purpose but we certainly don't want to go through another five uh another exercise like we just finished but uh can you clarify that like why why is it why do we think of it that way that's a great question and I'll add a little bit more context to the to what is is in the job right now as well is I think there's a give and take between what is in different plans and how all of that works out and we don't want to get caught in this endless planning Loop but we want to get to the doing um so what you have right now and what we'll have in the you know in the final kind of version that everyone will get to see we will crosswalk what's in here that's pulled from other plans so this isn't cut whole cloth this isn't all just brand new stuff this is capturing what is in plans we have already so it pulls from the comprehensive plan it pulls from Vision zero it pulls from the parks and open space plan it the this is one of the starting points from the sustainable Madison committee that would they looked across these different plans and says what are these what which of these are about sustainability and helping us achieve sustainability goals the comp plan has an obvious chapter on sustainability but there's other pieces that are really important and one of the things that they wanted this plan to be able to do was when someone says what is the city of Madison doing about sustainability you one place to look at it and it's very clear which of those um goals and action are captured in other plans already some of the stuff in here is new and some of the stuff is pulled from other plans so that it's clearly making that connection of how those other plans are are also advancing sustainability okay does that help yeah I think it's some I and I do think it's some give and take right so when we do update the comprehensive plan we'll have something really great to look at and say oh what else needs to go in there that makes sense thanks so on that note about what is the c m doing I think I mean things have changed the past two year two and a half years but I remember at the beginning when I first started as an aler when I hear what is the city of Madison doing I thought we're talking about the city of Madison but it really was just reflecting what does the city agency or or the you know the business that you call it was doing and I was a bit disappointing because it's like okay then there's more than than updating these buildings and you know like what what how does that transfer into the community so for me kind of be very important to really to um um those questions like I I get to have goals and and having the them Define but what exactly is what is our purview on this you know how how restrained are we by statues or all ordinances what new ordinances can you make to actually move us from the city agency or building or business into the community into the actual city of Madison and that to me is not clear I mean maybe I just not whatever but it's like not clear for me how can I as a commissioner or as an individual or as an elder can help push that envelope to create those policies that we can enforce in new developments and things like that like I don't have a clear picture of that yeah that's a that's a a point that I is very well taken partly because these some of these issues can be so different so what the city can do um what the city can do to advance green buildings CommunityWide for example there are there's a whole set of of State stat stes that give us more or less flexibility to to do that kind of thing um and similar for water for example also highly regulated and and is very cross boundary and so that's I think something that we'll continue to wrestle with I don't have any like sort of easy answers for that but I think that having the goal articulated helps us say we have some good ideas in our actions and then are there what are the other strategies we can be pursuing for this right if we have that goal as sort of what we're trying to get to and our Northstar then that says okay well let's look and say what are the tools in our tool box and so the actions that are that are in there right now reflect the tools that we have in our toolbox and then sometimes it says we need to explore more in this area to really understand and how we can you know push that forward with perhaps a novel approach that no one has thought of yet I think that's a super super good question and one thing that we did in plan commission was the bird glass you know I mean we had a special meeting that talked about that and uh encouraged the alers then because the alers have to introduce so to do the legislation but I think that there could be more things like that that the plan commission could learn about and push help push forward um maybe you know the uh extra stories if it is you know something similar to that if it is super sustainable like super for sustainable meeting um geothermal and a certain array of anyway so I I think that's a really good good point in question yeah I mean and I I appreciate what you're saying about having the Northstar and having some guidelines and the goals but I feel like again with with something what what it's just been described it can it has to be both we need to be really educated on what what our constraints are because the expectations are always out of touch with the reality and the sooner we understand our constraints then the easier it is for us to to find different path and trying to to build the toolbx that we may need to get to get around the the many constraints the state put on us so yeah I think I mean that if I had those tools I I I would probably be a way better commissioner but I don't I don't have that level of knowledge um um in in this particular topic about what the restrictions are yeah and and I will say that to your point you know getting some of this done requires leadership and champions right and so if there are areas that individuals Alders plan commission different boards committees or Commissions in the city feel like they can do that you know play that leadership role in advancing some of those strategies I think this offers sort of lays bear a lot of those opportunities and we're you know sustainability staff we're a small But Mighty team um but we are more than happy to collaborate and help do the leg work and um whether that's looking at different policies or looking at what's working in other cities or connecting with folks in our community that are you know experts in something you know we're happy to play that role thank you and I think that was a great transition to our next question if anyone wants to um uh speak more to what they see as the plan commission's role if any and I'm I'm seeing that maybe if any is yes since we have some Post-its up here um in help helping to like move this forward you know anybody want to share any like thoughts or or points of discussion or questions on on your answers there I mean a very simple one like having the changes that Transportation Commission made on their on their um new board and um really high um prioritizing having the connectivity like we have a person from Transportation here and we have someone over there in public works to just really have um people in the boards that actually make connect the dots when we working our projects right so um today we have these people talking about a bip paath and it's going to go to the Transportation Commission and he here um for us to discuss it but how does that connect with you know how do we stay in sync like again the perception and and like understanding maybe how the the City Works which is very difficult the City Works I mean it's it's not a simple task but um but I I feel like um my perception personally has changed over the past three years on how the city does really try to work together they're not they silos still exist but but there are more connectivity than people really sees you know on the outside and just this war is this is a a an example of that so from the war perspective ensuring that the board has a strong um connections to other agencies within the city that's a a way that we can help including sustainability anybody else want to I I I guess I I I'm thinking maybe more along the lines of what Liddell was saying about bird glass and and that you know we we we can be the kind of starting point working with staff on many analogous efforts related to uh I guess development uh approvals and standards and things related to sustainability and uh I don't know I I assume it helps staff to bounce those things off of us like we do at these meetings uh but I think our job is often to uh do the leg work with the help of staff for Alders who aren't on plan commission and and and you know don't have time to digest all this and I think that that's something plan commission should do more of is work on those sustainability uh efforts and you know they it's not that they're going to sail through some of them are controversial uh uh you know uh energy auditing and things like that you know they can be exle they can be complicated but I think we can we should do that work uh to and and work with you all and and other staff yeah that was the approach that I took too is that um plant commission's role is to really sort of um encode the sustainability Parts into you know zoning and development practice and we try to just do things like strongly suggest things like um solar panels and I know that um there are changes Now with uh electric car EVS yeah EV charging stations now you know that is come on and you know maybe moving from strongly suggesting into you know requirements but I feel like our job is to move from goals into code you know and to Shepherd that along yeah so in an early conversation um chair zers uh and I exchanged a couple emails about some of the like where where do we think that plan commission and these goals and actions are happening um and we made a list which I was going to should have share up here but I realize that's so small that it's pretty useless and looking at the document but if you if you have it in front of you and I can and I can share the list back out with everybody but just to spark some ideas um uh you know goal five around facilitating compact Transit oriented development that's seems pretty pretty in your wheelhouse um some some actions in goal six around increasing resilience to climate change impacts including heat waves storms and flooding um this is a place that we can really sort of start to grow in and really integrate more into um into our planning efforts as a city and then also you know bringing this up with the folks who are bringing plants um and and and developments um goal 10 around reducing greenhouse gas emissions from Vehicles CommunityWide um this is the vehicle charging infrastructure um piece here um and then we have goal 17 which is healthy ecosystems um and really thinking about how planning zoning um and management policies and practices can play a role in um in that Urban landscape so those are just some places and I can send it back out I can highlight those for everyone um but would if you know when you get that and you say oh here's another place I think that we could um that we could partner and lead and learn more um would love to hear those as well and I would just note that uh goal 5.2 and 5.3 you might notice uh have been pretty much accomplished um in terms of what the plan commission would be doing toward those yes so this is this draft was um from early this year and then we started our bringing on our contractors and our engagement process so we are making um sustainability uh achievements even along the way from from what was in the plan okay I have one last activity um and huge shout out to Greg for making this work because I didn't I forgot some of the things we needed um so on these two posters over here we have the goals and uh we have our our goals laid out and this is sort of thinking about um I have a a a former colleague that would say we can do everything we just can't do it all at once and so thinking about shortterm medium-term and long longterm priorities or like things that you think are kind of the most urgent or that we already have a lot of momentum on those are your green dots your medium-term priorities are your yellow dots and then your longer term priorities are your orange dots and I know that this is these are hard choices um but really thinking three dots I don't think so three dots only you're ready to go love it so so yeah if you want to let us know kind of what you think are short medium and long-term priorities from your perspective um wearing all of your hats so wearing all of your hats as members of plan commission um and residents sort of what do you think are the issues that are most urgent for us to Jessica and none of this is going to fall off the table so this is we're not going to stop working on any of these things I promise can you double check that sustainable Transportation didn't get flipped it was in the past yes it did get corrected okay it's a dark corner I guess I know well better than the last cor lighting that's fair that's right it's so true I laugh too CU Ben Ben Ben tore a hole in our plan so we're starting beef now collapsing on our heads over here come to his meeting and tear a hole and something think whichever one he tore out was already in the comp plan so it's covered oh oh yeah yeah he was he was yeah was his way of voting actually the hole the hole's in perfectly innocuous pleas [Music] [Music] thank that would be fun [Music] so do you have any travel plans for the holidays going to Sunny Indiana Oh it's a little bit south of here both of our parents good good good how about you n thank God yeah might go to like Monroe or something but no travel Duty travel are you liking your job have you been at any of the day we're wrapping up the emergency rental assistance portion it's the treasures out of money the their money and um I think I'm going to start working on the um okay so just a quick observation here a lot of our um green dots you like things shorter term things things you already have momentum on um are in our affordable housing um City design and infrastructure so around housing and um transportation Transit oriented development um reducing greenhouse gas emissions from vehicles that is and maybe I bias the by by showing you what the results were for some of our our community exercises but this this is an agreement with some of the things that we hear from residents as well so there's alignment there and what people think are some of the most urgent things for us to be working on and I I'll point out that this is the sustainability piece of those things right so we know that housing and transportation are really important things that our city needs to be doing anyway but what we're hearing from folks is that doing that in a way that is climate friendly and sustainable is a priority for our community um and that gives me a lot of Hope right um the other things that we think are really long term are around our economy are around renewable energy and decarbonization those things take time for us to be able to do but we are on track to be able to do them so I won't labor this too much but I want to just open this up one more time for you all to you know talk about your choices give us any insights or things you need to know we need to know from you about kind of longterm short-term priorities um that what you see in this plan already comments from anybody I I have a question my first reaction was when reading through the goals and uh strategies and things you know because we I'm focused on housing a lot I'm I'm thinking where is increasing housing density in here I mean I I it's not it's not under uh the affordable housing component uh so I'm I'm I'm like I want a big bullet for for that and I I think it's buried in there uh but I'm wondering if it should could be more explicit uh it doesn't have to be the word density but increasing housing opportunities Etc yeah that I I do think that it is um it's not spelled out so explicitly right now so that's really good feedback to have um I would say that a couple of the places that it would appears and I think folks might have highlighted actually this is um uh the trans-oriented development piece um you know that's kind of where it's living right now but let's talk more about um if you think it's captured well there or if you think there needs to be some additional language I I guess I'm I'm think I I mean I I recognize that you're right but I I feel like that's only a small portion of the city and so I but okay but just a thought it's a great thought thank you related to that I mean I I think referencing our projected growth and how we plan for that within this sustainability plan you know talking about plan commission's role I think Beyond some of the you know specific legislation we can look at and things like that I mean it's really our role in every single thing that we look at and review we are balancing or prioritizing what can sometimes seem like competing goals um and a big part of what drives you know some of the decisions that I personally make is density and then just thinking about accommodating future households in our community that's great feedback to It lines up with kind of how we communicate that as a sustainability concept um and also important for us to remember this these will be embedded within an actual document that'll provide more you know more information and context of folks and so it's reminding us that it's important to talk about um in addition to some of the sort of more environmental things we'll probably be talking about what climate change impacts Madison is expecting and things like that but the the population growth um that were and the other sort of changes that we can see on the horizon are are important to capture there too thank you well I want to say thank you very much Jessica I mean you tried to pack a lot into a short period of time so thank you very much I think I'm speaking for all the Commissioners uh when I say that uh we do think that the whole sustainability effort is extremely important um so we will I'm sure be in touch with you and I um I know that it is it's very difficult and sometimes frustrating when we're dealing with things on the plan commission when there are sustainability goals we would like to achieve but we really don't have the tools or abilities because of uh what we um have as standards or criteria so to the extent we might be able to change those or um enhance those um that would be great too so we should all be kind of thinking about that um so again thank you very much yeah thank you so much for inviting us to talk with you we're happy to continue this conversation in whatever way way it makes sense for everyone and if anybody has any written feedback for us on um on the what is in there right now and you want to share that with us please do send it our way or we're happy to schedule meetings whatever works okay very good thank you you okay so the next item on the agenda is uh the west and Northeast area plans progress update and plan commission input on key issues so take it away whoever is going to do it first who who's going to be while they're coming I just want to note that this uh this effort the new planning framework which U many of you as plan Commissioners helped to shape um over the past 18 24 months um is really all hands on deck as far as the planning division staff is concerned there are a lot of hairy issues some of which we'll talk about tonight but I just want to give a shout out to um of course yes the project managers who are here and you'll hear a lot more from but um realize probably two-thirds of our staff have been involved in in shaping uh shaping these two first plans as the the template we can hopefully follow um as we move forward so thank you to everyone good evening everyone I'm Linda Horvath she her pronouns I work with the planning Division and I'm here with my co-manager on the west area plan Ben zelers um and then we also have anela Puerta and Dan McCulla co-managers of the Northeast area plan so looks like we lost our did it unhook maybe one [Music] moment um so as Heather mentioned many people have been working on these plans and you can see our team members are listed for specifically for the plans we have Colin punt in the audience he's one of the West PL team members and number of other staff here that have been helping us out with these projects so that's okay we did it to you so you can do it to us so we want to go over maybe wait a minute we'll wait a minute just one more sorry sorry to the viewing audience okay so the agenda as you see it we're going to touch on the plan framework which many of us and also some of the Commissioners worked on a couple years back um talk about the West area Plan update Northeast area Plan update um some topics that are common across both area plans um and then talk about our proposal for incorporating the underlying plan actions into these area plans and then potential plan archiving and retirement and then of course uh talk with you about some of those discussion topics that are highlighted in the memo that we provided so the planning framework um is our approach uh as a planning division to cover the whole city with the 12 area plans that you see on the screen um this is an approach that we feel is going to provide us more consistency with planning it'll allow us to cover as we say the whole city um that includes areas of the city that have never had plans also allows us to update planning um initiatives that are in the underlying plan areas that the plans are quite old um and we are doing of course the Northeast and West first um in 2023 into 2024 um and then we are beginning the southeast and Southwest area plans uh with those teams um starting next year um we are guiding physical changes with these plans so generally land use transportation um and other topics that the comprehensive plan covers um we are taking about 12 to 18 months with the plans um we're doing increased coordination with other City agencies like the park development planning initiative that Parks is doing um storm water management planning um and other initiatives that the city's working on to try to kind of break down those silos you talked about a little bit earlier and and integrate um the different processes and initiatives we're also doing more of an EMP empis on um reaching underrepresented populations with these plans um so you'll see some whoops it's cutting out let's see if I okay okay came back so hopefully that won't happen again um see this is okay um so the West area plan covers the area you see on the screen between South M Midville Boulevard um Lake Mota city of Middleton and the westv line highway it's about 5600 Acres um 30,000 people 27.5% of whom are people of color um we have about 25,000 jobs as well in this area um we've done quite a bit of public engagement uh we can always do more and we will be doing more in January but um since February we've done a lot of things virtually in person we've had a couple open house houses um one at luer Community Education Center another at rabom Park um we've had Community surveys up um we currently have a an art survey up online um we have done um business postcards and we're currently finishing up some calls directly to businesses in the area about what they want to see um happen you know over the course of the next 10 years um and then we're also working with Community Partners that we hire to again do that deeper dive engagement with people that aren't typically represented in our processes uh so we ran a couple focus groups um in coordination with those Partners recently uh with the Chinese Community um and then some of those areas around luer Center and Wexford Ridge areas um and we'll continue to do some of that work coming up in January uh we we do often uh receive conflicting feedback um we get a lot of feedback over the course or we have had a lot over the course of the past year um plenty of people have said they want to keep the area similar to how it is with lower density residential lower rise buildings um that you see in this area a lot of people though too are appreciative of the fact that the city's growing um and will continue to grow and want to see more mixed juice and higher rise development so we're hearing both things in this area um lot of people want to improve bike path and pedestrian connectivity some see the Greenways as a potential way to do that um but also other things like protected bike lines on streets um uh some say as you've heard tonight that no paths and Greenways are you know they don't want to see that happen particularly folks tonight we're talking about the Sal Creek Greenway and um a path that's been in City plans for about 30 years showing that connection uh we're simply in you know continuing it in our plan um a lot of people have said more parking but then a lot of people have said prioritize people and not cars so we're getting you know some conflicting things going on here and it's our role as planners to deal with that right we see see what we have here and then we try to deal with it to some degree in our actions and through work with you and and others um under represented groups have highlighted some things like unsafe walking routes we've talked to students from Memorial High School and um Jefferson or eel Gillespie Middle School used to be Jefferson Middle School um people or the students walk a lot of times all the way down south of the belt line um you know cuz that's part of that that school service area so they're walking along gamon Road you know right through the West Town area um that can feel unsafe uh to to the students uh particularly they talked about like going through the underpass um under the belt line it's low lighting major intersections obviously they they're going through those um on street bike Lanes people highlighted as feeling unsafe both for the bicyclist and the drivers um people driving along the lanes are feeling you know like all concerned about the bicyclist um isolation and segregation of affordable housing in the area people living in affordable housing are feeling you know separate from other parts of of the area and as new affordable housing is built want to see more integration of that housing um Arts really the focus we heard in the last month on that is more community art students Studio space um uh people see things going on on the east side that they really like SE sector 67 and a number of other similar types of of places like that so um here is our proposal for generalized future land use um what you see in the uh black outlined areas are where we're proposing changes to the 2018 comprehensive plan um and you'll see of course low medium residential highlighted and a number of areas there and that's partly in response to um Community feedback about wanting more uh variety of housing choices but then also just simply we we know we need more housing units so that allows us to do both of those things more effectively um and that generally looks like you know as you see along major streets um served well by public transit um outlined in pink you see um areas where there are centers of worship currently um and we're proposing generally those are areas of low residential designation currently um and so we're looking at changing those with the future land use map to a variety of different um land use designations medium residential Community mixed juice um neighborhood mixed juice Etc to again allow for more housing to be built and more uh mix of uses to occur so changing these um you know formerly low residential areas uh will allow a clearer path when and if those um Property Owners would like to redevelop um in a way that's you know consistent again with some of the goals we're talking about with the plan um I'm going to hand things off now to Ben um and there you go um so another element of what we're looking at um for these area plans is uh maximum Building height um and so the proposed approach that we're taking right now is to Simply map map maximum building Heights for land uses that don't already have guidance uh within the comprehensive plan um so for example low residential low medium residential medium residential all of those have some guidance in the comprehensive plan right now for maximum building Heights whereas High residential Regional mixed use both refer to area plans or neighbor development plans whatever the case might be for additional guidance which obviously this this will be um and similarly General commercial employment no real guidance within the comprehensive plan for maximum building Heights and so while you see on the screen is uh areas within those four categories High residential Regional mixed use Etc um have maximum building Heights shown um and we started with the Odana area plan um as uh the major factor within this um so you can see area south of Mineral Point Road um have a lot of of numbers on them and those uh are mainly established to the Odana area plan been carried forward here um but we are showing some possible increases in maximum Building height associated with this West area plan uh specifically right up along uh Mineral Point South of Mineral Point um a few areas that would go from 12 to 16 uh floors maximum some areas that would go from 5 to 8 and some of those uh increases um up to the eight story maximum are associated with some of the tweaks that were very recently adapted with uh trans development making consist with that there are some other areas certainly in the in and around the hildale mall area that we also are showing maximum building Heights um and then a few other scattered portions um where we have Regional mixed use land uses or um commercial or employment land uses where we're showing maximum building Heights as well um another element we want to talk about are Street connections um and again most of the street connections that we're showing are pulled in from the Odana area plan south of Mineral Point Road or um in the case of over by hildale mall pulling in recommended connections from the Hill Farms uh neighborhood plan as well but there are a few other things to call out within this area and circling those kind of in that uh magenta color um one of them is Yos place which is south of oldak Road um there's a gap in the street Network um spoke of engineering as to what potential reason there might be for that Gap and they were not sure um there is already city right of away there but the street simply doesn't connect um so that could be an area to provide more connectivity within this portion of the West area um and then there's a gap in the street between the Middleton Madison border um that's Middleton Street uh it simply ends for 20 ft and then picks up as Middleton Street on the other side um and there are variety of reasons for this um in terms of the way the area developed in the past but um we think it would be important to work with the city of Middleton to make that connection um and then there are some other uh things that were uh detailed as well Old Sock Road um I think this was mentioned by a gentleman testifying earlier today um to possibly extend Appalachian way but that would really only occur if and when uh any property owners in that area choose to redevelop um so that would be Associated uh with Redevelopment and if property owners don't want to redevelop there wouldn't be any streets associated with that and then finally the fourth one that we're calling out here is St Dunston Drive um that's kind of close to the Middleton border right now it's a one-way Street out letting onto University Avenue um and so a possible recommendation to include in the west area is as an adjoining property St denon's church if that if that ever redevelops to the north to consider uh what the proper Street configuration might be on for St Dunston whether one way should be maintained or whether that should potentially be up opened up to two-way traffic so I had yeah go I had a comment about yosity place that goes over to Yos Trail so if you're looking at this CAC could you speak into your sorry so if you're looking at this culdesac and you're looking on the trail I live on the other side of that trail and when we moved into that neighborhood I also asked why that road doesn't connect cuz it confuses every delivery driver and you know maybe Amazon has figured it out by now um and I was told that they closed that off because the teenagers or reckless drivers uh cuz there's an incline on that path we like driving recklessly down into the like what is now the culdesac and we're like if anybody's familiar with the Dukes of Hazard we're like ramping up their speed and like driving onto yosity Place really fast and they asked the city to close off access to that that's what I was told okay that it was reckless driving but if nobody at engineering has any record of that then I don't I don't want to interfere with that connectivity and and we did yeah we did speak with engineering staff and the grade for that connection is similar to Street grades elsewhere in this general area um so I mean that that could be the case but at the same time there are similar Street grades in portions it doesn't look any it it doesn't seem any I'll ask around again but it doesn't look any I was just told that it was maybe it was just one Troublesome driver but I was I was told it was reckless driving okay and the grade who is now probably graduated from college and medical school prob they're probably living in the neighborhood with their own teenage drivers as far as I know no speed this an interesting story yeah yeah um and then obviously we've already heard a lot of testimony in the so Creek Greenway here this evening um just kind of recapping a few things this is uh the the area within that uh Green Boundary is approximately 150 acre block so that's a a pretty substantial uh size of area um without any you know connections across or through that um obviously bounded by two parks uh Walnut Grove Park a pretty significant uh Community Park um hanne family park as well um this has been shown as an important potential Link in the city's all ages in abilities bicycle Network um and as Linda mentioned um there has been a path uh shown in City plans going back for over 30 years within the greenway um including the 2006 comprehensive plan in 2018 comprehensive plan um and as neighbors certainly here uh have testified tonight there's been a strong neighbor opposition to Shared Us's path um for a variety of reasons that I won't recap um uh as so many people spoke on them already but but um at the same time there there have been General support within uh the West area for more safe bicycle connections within the planning area so um there's there's the kind of specific issue within so Creek Greenway and the general support for better and more safe bicycle connections uh overall um just wanted to also point out those white arrows on the map um are existing kind of public access points into the greenway um and so there is um an addition to um you know potential for a path through the greenway itself possible connections from the neighborhood into that path um if uh future you know detailed design uh would want to include those um and maybe one additional thing to mention we've been in you know close uh contact with engineering staff um really throughout this process um you know uh obviously it's a interdisciplinary project um storm water management uh is is the main uh concern for Greenways um but as far as uh tree loss um engineering feels that there's a substantial opportunity to overlap a potential bicycle path with the maintenance uh path that they would need for U maintaining the storm water channel that has been you know kind of uh becoming a a challenge for them to deal with given the lack of access they have um so just a West area plan timeline then I'll I'll turn it over to Northeast fol um what I would suggest that we might want to do is rather than go all the way through is to perhaps take up um the West area plan discussion points then here um Northeast area plan discussion points and that and then loop back to the general ones sure that sounds that sounds fun okay so are there questions let's take um the number seven the road um connectivity are there questions about that concerns um are people does that sound good to people number seven okay I'm seeing a yes so number seven is go for it okay number eight um the proactive rezoning yeah and so that uh was you obviously what um several people testified to uh this evening uh that includes the discussion of uh TR zoning and then there are um some other considerations in there and so um kind of looking for the commissions feedback on on all of those elements so the trr zoning is the one that would change the highlands yeah um and the other ones in I mean that's the main one really isn't it it's the certainly the largest area by far um well let's take that one first well that's a what are the any questions on that what are the general thoughts I mean obviously we aren't voting on this tonight but planning staff wanted a general uh impression of where plan Commissioners are on that um I'll just chime in that I am supportive of that change in zoning um honestly I found that minimum lot size to be shocking when I read it 26,000 um and but in general I'm not supportive of a of a zoning District that is very specific to one area of the city and um I agree with the the staff comment that there are other more appropriate tools for historic preservation as lell alluded to in her questions um than a zoning District I Echo that and I mean I feel like either b o d is fine um but I'm not sure to um I mean I don't have a strong feeling about that but just the the historical preservation there's there's staff can help with that I know like L Ela they're not going to do it for them but they can guide them through that process and and get that established um yeah other other thoughts just just the fact that there's only one of them doesn't make them um I don't view it as making them historic I view them as make them inclusive so I just feel like it shouldn't we shouldn't be doing that for just one area any other comments I I I just maybe I can ask Heather this question uh what are what are the thresholds for prop Property Owners when you're uh um considering a local historic district because there's no there's no guarantee that uh everybody's going to be willing to uh accept the the kind of control that the city will then have over their property as people think I call it historic property protections there you go um so uh I'm Heather Bailey I'm the preservation planner for the city uh for the review of possible uh historic uh resources within the West area plan that neighborhood was identified as potentially being a national register or a local District if the neighborhood is interested now having said that per state statute um there is no requirement specifically it's prohibited for owner consent for designation as uh with local historic designation um the decider for the city of Madison for what becomes a uh has his historic designation be it a local historic district or a designated Landmark is common Council um someone would have to supply a nomination for why it is a landmark or why it is a historic district and make a case for it now having said that anytime I talk with um interested parties what I tell them is if you want to proceed with a local historic designation I highly encourage it be at the behest of the actual Property Owners um preservation works best when it is in collaboration with the property owners as opposed to um in protest by the property owners so if they are interested in proceeding with that very happy to work with them thank you heather [Music] welcome okay so my sense is that in general people are supportive of this change in zoning um then B um neighborhood mixed juice to Regional mixed use uh the area along University in Whitney separate um for more can you bring that up on the screen sure what is this I believe that was a memo attachment under oh under oh okay so it looks like it's page 23 I think pH it um so yes these are uh lettered to match what's in the memo page n what is be page what p n okay thank you this page 23 is page nine page nine okay mhm um Pages don't have pages so a can you just run through them uh I mean B on there um is is um up at University Avenue Whitney Way a triangle shaped area um currently Zone neighborhood mixed use we're showing on the map potential um proactive resoning to Regional mixed use um this being fairly close to brt it seems like a reasonable place for allowing additional intensity uh by rate so basically B and C similar very similar um c um might need to look at that in terms of how fits with the recently completed um State Office Building there and whether or not that would need to be included or or potentially left out which is currently Suburban employment obviously that's not going anywhere for a while but um in in general that the bulk of that is the Red Cross site which is um you know a pretty low density office building with uh a substantial amount of surface parking I was um confused I definitely think that that's I I will support something like that okay more Ben I have a question uh rmx doesn't have a maximum number of stories in it correct um well I think a lot of our zoning districts the maximum is set by conditional use process basically um and so I think that would be similar here but because this is in the to Overlay area people would be allowed up to eight stories right okay yeah I'm I'm wondering why some of these are capped at 16 we could do even more well I mean that that's byal use by conditional use it could but if these are in the in the plan that would be tougher right well I think um the maximum building Heights that we're showing would need to be you know considered and accounted for through the conditional use process um I think maybe Heather has more details about how speak yeah speak into the when you talk if you can speak in so so yeah with the um maximum building Heights that we showing I think would have to be accounted for through a conditional use approval process um but was deferring to Heather as to that I'll said that I think this is an area where we still have a lot of work to do with your input and and that of others so most of our existing sub area plans where there are maximum height recommendations the plan commission grapples with that when a conditional use is U is proposed one other way to do it and we do it in our downtown today is to set maximum Heights in the zoning and so another way to um to implement these plans would be to to to basically set maximum Heights in the zoning code in the areas where we're showing maximum Heights in the plans as an implementation step after the plan is adopted so we could do that and those maximum Heights would have more um more strength more more teeth they just like uh the building proposals that you see in the downtown area today so could there be uh Heights um without certain sustainability features and then Heights with certain sustainability features for ex so we haven't we haven't talked through that with the city attorney's office in some time but we have uh with your guidance implemented uh for affordable housing something very similar in the downtown area uh just this earlier this year and we're seeing folks interested in that so I think it's a little bit of a issue that we would need to to make sure we had a strong you know Legal Foundation to pursue I'd love it if you would take a look at that as a possibility so is there a reason why we want maximum Heights I think Patrick was kind of asking that question you know outside of like the state capital area airports why do we care if somebody wants to build a 25 story building with to densify an area I mean that's an element of the feedback that we're seeking from you all is if you know we want to have that type of guidance within the plan um there has been some interest by um some Alders to include some guidance um for maximum Heights um but that's an element of feedback that we definitely want to hear from you because I mean I kind of think I may be wrong but I think kind of the way we're doing the land use like if you do low density high density medium density that kind of fixes itself right cuz the low density just behind the other ones so they're hidden somewhat so they're protected kind of more private you kind of build that so and I'm just curious like why are we limiting people in other areas that like you know around the Belt Line Orana area that they could build higher if they wanted to they may not but it looked like Chris did you want to say something I had a general question when we started when you were going through why there were building Heights in the plan um because I know you said the Odana area plan and I think maybe a couple others do specify Building height um but not all do maybe it's older ones and is that like should that be a function of these plans is to lay out specific building Heights for specific areas and it sounds like you just said that's been an interest of some wers or something but yes um and I think you know outside of the Odana area boundary that we kind of pulled in guidance from that plan and made some tweaks um there's pretty limited areas that were including that maximum Building height but like I said I mean if the direction from the commission is that we should you know not have that at all um or change some portions of that obviously we can when can make adjustments I like the minimum because I mean that makes sense cuz you know like we want that to encourage development and encourage density like the utility overlays that makes sense for minimums but why and we're stopping them at 6 stories or eight stories and it's if they can go higher you know we can densify a little bit quicker is or in more area or less area with higher buildings if if I can comment I guess uh I mean I I I think you're right but um it it assumes that the adjacent uh areas that might have a different land use designation are appropriately crafted you know it's sort of like that it and and so to to minimize you know really drastic uh adjacent areas in height and um we don't I mean staff does a great job of looking at that when they draw up these plans so generally that seems to be the case but you'd have to have faith I think that that that was the case oh Kevin hi thanks I just wanted to just quickly just provide a development view perspective um and one of the items just for consideration when we're when we get a lot of questions about development inquiries before a project becomes a an engineered proposal you know one of the question is how much building how much height and so one of the I think one of the benefits there's certainly benefits of of having some flexibility I think is some of the points that have come across here but on the other side when people ask well how tall can I go it's it's important from a Vel review standpoint that we can set reasonable expectations um and I think that's one of the benefits of having some sort of height recommendation here so when people are contemplating projects we can at least say with some certainty that this is the kind of height that's envisioned for this this area so that's just one another just want to put that point out there for the consideration of the commission okay thank you i' I'd like to come back to the B and C in terms of the change um of the Zoning for those are are people comfortable with that okay so in general yes and then D um is uh Suburban residential consistent to Neighborhood mixed use comfortable with that or questions about that I have one question um I really like you know this is different from prior plans where we've left these places of worship as special institutional or um something like that that so I I like I really like this flexibility that we've been working towards I was just wondering about um communication with those uh places of worship um I think people sometimes people can see map like this and think like their property is rezoned um and I know there's a lot of great local resources actually of people that work with churches and can explain that process so just wondering how that has been communicated or will be yeah um we can reach out to to those institutions I mean thus far um for land use changes we haven't you know reached out to all the property owners that the future land use map would potentially uh change uses on um and maybe people would find it reassuring to to hear from us but I think um you know the they can continue with the uses that they currently have as long as they want um the uses that are on these sites are allowed um and the land uses that you know we're proposing to change them to and I think in most of these cases the future land use uh is shown as low residential which these institutions aren't low residential either um and so we're changing it from one thing that they aren't to another thing that they aren't um and so that's that's one reason um why we haven't done a you know a specific Outreach uh to to those institutions thus far but we we could do that so if they demolish the what is there and they want to build another church they still be able to do that in future yeah I mean it depends on zoning considerations as well as land use but yeah okay with this good okay uh then we're on to S Creek Greenway shared use path can you show on there not just the path but um the testimony talked about alternative routes that there are lots of alternative biking options could you point those out please yeah so one of the things that we're showing on this map lots of lines lots of colors um but uh the existing and this is part of the memo page 11 on the memo um existing shared juice pths are in dark purple um planned future share juice pads light purple and then existing on street bike facilities in dark green and planned on street bike facilities in in light green um and so there are some um parallel on Street facilities um like Westfield Road um portions of High Point Road have on Street facilities um and so I think that's what many people are referring to when they talk about alternate um facilities um but at the same time um as you know Linda kind of mentioned and just want to mention again one of the concerns that we've heard from some folks through our feedback is that they're very uncomfortable on uh biking on on Street facilities um and so part of that all ages and abilties consideration that Transportation uh division is is very dialed into is providing alternatives to on Street facilities for people who feel unsafe um and so an off- Street facility um like the greenway would provide an alternative like that and what you saying earlier with the testimony that people were saying about taking trees down and taking trees down there is a possibility that what is going to be utilized to maintain kind of the water issue could be utilized for that bike path that's yeah I mean a lot of that potentially all of it depending on how the all the design considerations come together through a specific design process um but it sounded like um from engine in there's a good opportunity to overlap a significant portion of that um with uh a maintenance path um and I was just going to mention there already is kind of a maintenance path for some of the um uh sanitary sewer lines that run through the area for I don't know roughly a third or maybe half um of the length um and that's already kind of cleared of trees through the width of that sanitary maintenance access that exists right now is are those existing PA um we share accessible God none of the kind of informal walking paths that so my grandchildren will share will be able to go there not not right now yes okay because I mean when people keep on talking about this bike path we're not really talking about a by path we're talking about an all abilities path is for people to actually buy there have their wheelchair enjoy the nature that is been enjoyed right now by other people it's um it's for people that want to walk for the person got run over by a bike is for that person to have enough space for a bike to go through without running over and that other person have a a walking Lane I mean is that that what we talking about it all abilities path path that is what we're talking about so we're working with traffic engineering on that aspect because they're you know working on an all ages abil inabilities plan and they would would support I think basically have said they would only support it if it was all ages and abilities um because that's the policy of the city is to to make paths you know that we're going to build uh for pedestrians to be all ages and abilities so so it's not a bike path it's a shared juice pathice path yeah that's a better way to be wider than a typical bike path correct how wide would it be our current standard is is 10 ft so I I think that's kind of the starting point for um considering some of this will you have to change grades to make it accessible because right now it be compliant because it's with the Topography of the area but if we're going to make it all all ages all access then some of that grade is going to have to change so do we know if that's going to be significant to the current natural environment there like well I think um engineering kind of wants to know what the policy Direction is on uh including a path within this area and once they know whether or not that should be a consideration for them they're going to be able to delve into the specific Design Elements so if there's a situation down the line where you know they dig into specific design and it proves to be for whatever reason unfeasible to design and install in a in a reasonable way then um they'd have to make adjustments or possibly not include it but before doing that design they they want to have some policy directive to to make that step there is quite a bit of grade changes there're not in that area portions of portions of it and well and maybe this is in the weeds too much but um is there a single grade option so that it would you know what I mean because there is a lot of grade change you have to to um switch backs or something yeah do you have to I think all that would come down to trying to integrate it through a specific design process because I did go there um and uh it is an it's it's a nice uh natural kind of area and 10 ft wide what's the um at the narrowest what is that area do you know uh through the like side to side from the corridor itself right right right um I'd have to double check it very yeah varies pretty widely um but you have to get out the measuring stick so to speak and look at that so I have two more questions um well more question so which refers to to kind of what we're discussing so a lot of people talk about lighting and and that being a concern but again the question here is not what the path is going to look like because we don't have a design it's just we want to put the the bike the multi-purpose use the oh my God all abilities on path on the on the on the plan isn't that right because we can we cannot Define I mean everybody's focused on on the design of it and and again I haven't heard you and I've been in almost all the meetings that you guys have provided for the West um area plan I haven't heard anyone talking about what this is going to look like like we don't have that information right right we have an enormous amount of possible future bike routes in here and we can't design all of those as part of this planning process so um we're looking for kind of the general policy direction to proceed or not proceed with right okay so then how do people feel about this I have one more question sorry okay and with that that last bit that you that you said is that your answer to the the person who gave the public comment this will be a path to nowhere and that's because the network isn't entirely together yet um yeah I mean I think as we're showing on the map here once a a network is implemented along the lines of the plan it there'll be a lot of connectivity on a shared use path Network okay um but if it's you know constructed now and nothing else ever happens then okay it would be less of a great thank you connection okay so how do people feel about it then okay in in um so then um how about we I think that takes care of the things specific to um the West area plan discussion points how about if we move on to Northeast and you can give us an quick as you can overview of that yeah oh you didn't talk about the timeline though I think that's in the memo and we can just keep going thank you okay uh good evening everyone my name is Anila puer and I'm one of the co-managers uh of the north Northeast a plan here with Dan molf um just to provide a little bit of of um uh kind of connection between the West area and Northeast it's the Northeast area plan is a little bit larger um than the West over uh 2,000 acres largers with uh 7,500 Acres um however we have half of the number of residents that uh the West area folks have with 15,000 residents this area is one of the most diverse areas followed by um South Madison um we have 40 about 43 uh. 7% black indigenous and person of colors and Hispanics and it's a major um employment anchor of the city and also given uh its location um just to provide an overview of our PL uh planning process uh background and our public Outreach we've conducted uh at least two virtual meetings um since uh our kickoff uh many about five inperson discussions to Neighborhood walks and three informal visits uh We've also made phone calls especially to those uh U areas that are very hard to reach like uh property managers and some businesses within the area uh we started with three Community Navigators uh now we're uh down to two but uh we've been targeting the community uh blog gr uh designated areas which now we call it uh Community strategy action areas which are and I'll show this uh later the Sandberg neighborhood and Burk Heights neighborhood um so we done that oneon-one uh Outreach within the area two Community surveys and one commenting map interactive in uh our website just to provide a summary of our most frequent public input people are very excited about the brt uh and the East Washington Redevelopment overall uh there are some concerns about the connection especially uh Crossing uh East Washington uh from let's say sanberg to uh the East Town Mall so they people hope that with the brt uh that connection can uh be improved for pedestrians and bicyclists uh also more desire for uh more walkable destination so there are very good um bike paths and uh like boulevards within the area however there is not they are not linked to each other so people would like to see more connectivity for pedestrians and bicycles bicyclists uh concerned overall and we've heard this um in pretty much all our neighborhood planning processes uh affordable housing is a big concern um and there are some conflicting um comments about Imagination Center however the majority of the comments are positive that this will bring uh um a place a gathering space for for this community that doesn't have uh that right now so um because we have currently the temporary homeless shelter and soon the permanent men's uh homeless shelter um there is a big concern about how we're going to address homelessness and what kind of impact that we have in in the community in general and we heard this uh also during the um for the Sandberg and Burk Heights uh Outreach safety and lighting is a is a very um important concern for for the community there is a lot of perception of fear within uh the area especially along Haze road which is um kind of parallel to the interstate highway um and um syamore Park especially the uh Bush areas uh in that spot so uh in ryow park um shelter is also a concern regarding safety so for land use um we focus mostly on the areas that were outside the haon Tua area and greater East T mall we uh are proposing minor uh changes to to those um uh plans but overall we focus mostly outside uh those two areas and just to bring up the highlights uh one of the land use future land use recommended changes are the East Washington Frontage Road um that I explain later in detail but we would like to see uh a safer uh East Washington Corridor more like what you see close to the uh to the downtown being the buildings close to the street provided that s sense of enclosure appealing maybe more density uh potential for more more housing also um we are including more uh low medium residential uh within neighborhoods and this is um because of the fact that we would like to see more missing middle in the in the areas um especially along um connectors like Portage Road uh that could provide that that opportunity to to increase density overall um another change that uh I'll talk in a minute is the um one of the major entrance of the city which is EST Road and CV we are proposing uh commercial and employment so as I as I mentioned the one East Washington Frontage Road is um a very um important area within uh this uh within the planning area and it was part of the Great eall uh area plan um it was proposed as commercial in order to preserve uh some of the local businesses that are in there um however we uh our team uh did an analysis and well the the vast majority of of these areas are used by chain stores like McDonald's Chila um stores like that um and we don't want to miss the opportunity to be along a major Corridor the brt uh stations being nearby and there is a lot of potential for mixed use um and we will add in the language of the plan that uh it's recommended that those local businesses uh be preserved so that's one of the changes uh from the greatest Tamal and is Washington Frontage um um what we've heard so as I said at the beginning it's currently unsafe for pedestrians uh there is a lack of visual appealing and and and there is no Community character so we hope that but by bringing uh that buildings to the front uh of East Washington uh that can enhance the corridor unity and streamline the intersections Dynamics and by simplifying car turning movements and allowing for smoother traffic uh flow overall um the facing might be a little bit complicated because these are large blocks uh and we've met with engineering and other City staff and and we recognize that this could be uh challenging uh given that there are many uh properties along that uh Front Edge Road uh but we see uh a good potential to provide a recommendation um and have that sense of a closure visually more visually appealing uh Corridor and more density given the uh brt connections and before you move on let's just take this one right now 10A um on our listing that you have there are people in harmony with that do you have any questions about it is that front Dr go ahead if do you have something yeah I didn't 10 is fronted roads I assume I don't have it in front yes oh I have it I need to find it okay you wanted well we've got it even in paper but it's what she just described in terms of uh East Washington sound short but yeah okay am I seeing General I don't questions we see the thumbs up and not on Zoom so I know it's I hope there'ss this is the way it plays out now it's currently 35 so there was a vision zero uh action in I think last year to lower the speed limit to um from 45 45 to 35 um another Transportation recommendation that we're working on right now is some recommendations for the I94 intersection that will have a big impact on the speed of that redesign um our goal obviously is is as an was saying is to try to modify the character of this section of a bit of East Washington because it really it's that in between it's not a it's not an urban arterial that supports strong neighborhoods and economic growth it's kind of a highway in the city like how do we transform that I think vacating those Frontage roads is a big start Janette did you have any comments or questions or are you I so I mean you can answer some of the questions about the safety like how you cross the street there I mean and I get that those are Vision zero and safe Street um tasks but um so I don't know that they fit here but I'm still like I can I can process in my head um this a I mean I get what you're saying about moving things closer to the edge right to the so can you explain to me explain to me what that do for the you know what what is the meaning of doing I mean I want to leave I want my building to be as far away from the street but why why is it important to bring it closer to the street well that's typically a a visual cue for vehicles to slow down that's one one of of the the reasons why um bu building uh bringing buildings close to the street um my help uh and also when you're when you're walking it's just feels um like a sense of enclosure like um trees next to you with a building next to you an entrance so you have ways to just or areas to walk to right and if we're providing if we're recommending mix use that means commercial on the first floor so for pedestrians it will be easier to identify those uh commercial spaces so it would I'm envisioning it looking similar to like the 800 block of East Washington where the constellation in the galaxy and then the 900 and the lyric um which is a relatively Pleasant place to be it's noisy but you have a cafe you have an area to sit as well and so if you actually that's kind of why we included those images on the slide actually believe it or not the 800 block of East Wash has a greater traffic count than the areas by the mall and if you think about where would you rather sit outside and have a me or or have a coffee I can't imagine it's out by East Town in its current physical form so how do we start with transforming that uh another Improvement that will be coming to this area particularly in the independence area is because that is getting a brt station I believe there is a traffic signal that's going to be installed there that will dramatically improve the ease of Crossing as well um and and really just improving the character if you think um we can exactly build the simplest answer is to build new buildings on former strip Tri malls behind a frontage road is that going to change The Pedestrian character into that Urban character into that transitor development character that we're we're trying to seek as a city I think there's better answers uh there's certainly challenges with that um but I think that's kind of why we're we're trying to advocate for so um again discussing like you mentioned earlier how this will be a challenge because there are big structures already there or whatever so wouldn't also these be areas where um you could improve the O ability solages path or do you just want to keep people away from here and move them on the back roads and wouldn't why wouldn't use that space for that instead of bringing buildings closer yeah and well actually we've met there is not the image here but uh there was a a 3D image that that shows um how we can because of uh enough space that we have we can have bike path with a sidewalk uh Urban furniture things like that you can actually see it in the the dark gray path on that that threedimensional images is how we feel we could accommodate shared Ed path on the on the North side uh traffic engineering or it's funny that we call it traffic engineering because it's really transportation engineering um they are looking at how they can get a I like that Transportation shared use path on the North side because we do see that's critical need and and in it current form no one would really want to bike on East Washington in that location so it is something how we're thinking about how we can do that that that takes up about another 12 ft of space we don't need another 120 ft that we could accommodate when we look at the areas that we're recommending to vacate in totality it's about 2.3 Acres um so it's quite a bit of housing that could be built on that 2.3 Acres it's again it will be challenging and phasing will be um something that needs to be considered but it is quite a bit of land mhm okay so so a fil more going comfortable now yes more comfortable okay good so I think that that is in general I will add yeah I'm in favor too I think my concern though is that like that section of East Wash is never going to be that Pleasant at least anytime soon so like at least what this rendering shows is not much connectivity behind like I would like to see more connectivity off of East Wash to to counteract that you know like that's kind of what the frontage Dr Road does now is create a space that isn't East Wash so ulating that I think for people walking and biking is you I'm thinking about the John noan redesign how this will connect to that route you know in the future too so yeah a good point thank you okay then moving on to B 10 B 10 B what's 10 B oh okay yeah so uh the map that you're seeing here is um the intergovernmental agreement uh the greenish area is the current town of bur so uh we've had conversations with uh the village of the forest um some portions of the town of Burke will move to the Village of the forest Madison or some prairie so the area all the area that you see within the Northeast area plan will be part of the city of Madison um by 2036 so um currently the area that you seeing here uh the north of ston road is industrial so what we did was shifting to commercial L largely to reflect what's uh what's there um this area is next to the inter change so it's a great location for for commercial in employment uh will offer also uh provide services to all all industri areas and uh employment areas and will also help us a better gateway to the city so that's why we're proposing um commercial so the intergovernmental agreement said said that uh the forest will provide uh water and sewer uh even after it's currently providing a great portion of water and sewer in the area and in the after the uh attachment it will continue to provide wi and sew so we think that that uh change in the future land use uh will be uh faible so um something that I forgot to mention uh at the beginning was the LMR uh changes uh for uh the centers of worship so that's something that we are largely doing during this process as well except for a very tiny um um here our Point Tiny from the map but uh on the ground is larger is the holy crust um Church uh we consider that due to being so close to the interstate um and having its context is more uh low residential we are keeping it low residential unless uh Commissioners think that uh we should not make that exception uh but leave it as LMR so I want to take this land use Highway 51 and CV um and find out if if Commissioners have any questions about that change that's being recommended that's uh in the staff memo 10B and so Ju Just to add I just want to be clear with this the employment area the the change is recommended from uh open space to employment we did we have had some development inquiries the the sewer service is somewhat unique in the fact that the city cannot provide sewer to this per as enh mentioned to the IGA um it is it currently in the IGA because the IG only exists till 2036 um theforest can provide water and sewer they have that capacity now this is also in a protected area so if it develops prior to 2036 it will develop outside the city then come into the city if it develops after 2036 it can only be served at mutual agreement from with the by the city and the village so it's just kind of weird we can we can recommend a change in land use um when it's outside the city and it'll be served by DeForest um it's it's just a unique situation that um in the future it will need to be deserved by the forest after the IGA goes away and it's in the city it will if it hasn't developed it would need need then to be approved Again by by mutual agreement of DeForest and Madison very unique situation um but it is developable there is some level of interest and there is sewer infrastructure nearby and was question i s have God old like this right there old areas like this you already the answer you got the answer he just answer okay very good any other question uh and you you get the impression at least that changing making this change isn't uh going to change DeForest uh attitude about being able you know it could be a much higher usage of sewer or whatever they yeah there there's some capacity it's not unlimited and so whatever you know if there is a development proposal coming forward um it would need to they would need to work with the city okay or Village of theforest to ensure there's capacity for that intended use or upgrade the infrastructure there to accommodate that what we are now talking about is do we even want to have enable that conversation by showing a future land use other than open space um if the answer is no that answer is no um it you know keeps area that's in the city served by the city again this is a extremely atypical situation um and it is not something that we come across at all okay but because of topography it's very very it'd be impractical for the city to serve with sewer I guess is weigh in and say it doesn't hurt to try yeah okay yeah the developer wants to negotiate sewer with the forest they can do that yeah okay good all right then um moving on to the low medium residential expansion within neighborhoods that to me was a little Crypt s here where you were looking at and what you were saying so could you uh yeah so expl that I think we're taking a very similar approach to the West areas looking at where we have you know where's appropriate to have somewhat elevated uh intensities of neighborhood uses where we have um park space where we have neighborhood shopping those type of amenities so the the image that you're seeing um or is on the slide is uh right next to ryall Park it's relatively low density it isn't it is developed there also is some uh I think there is a center of worship there as well um so you know does it make sense to have a little bit elevated density next to those neighborhood amenities um we saw that as an opportunity and what is it now low residential oh okay so to go go to low medium and this is Rond Park where the Imagination Center so we'll have more um access to amenities y it is on Transit as well that was one of our things um we have aside from the brt there is a couple more circuitous routes okay that are on Portage and Haze um those were kind of where we're looking at most questions thoughts I'm good with this okay MH okay I'm hearing good with this mhm and thumbs up so I guess we can move on then so 11 talks about Highway 51 and I 94 Corridor studies and I'm not sure sure is there any question with that or were you just communicating that uh 11a I think that's more communicating that study ongoing okay I think we have gone through that before so we'll move on bike networks um is there any specific thing that you were asking about there in terms of bike network not not particularly we don't we don't have the conflict so we have a couple areas that we're really looking to bridge um Portage Road is kind of one of those main East West um I mean for us the big divide is Highway 51 and where the the networks on the east side are connecting to the ones on the west side and where do we find those those critical linkages Portage Road is one of those we're recommending a couple changes um as well as um that's that's kind of the main one that's new in this there are a couple other uh off Street paths that were recommending to shift um one was impossible to build because it was actually in the middle of a Runway uh from old plan uh after the airport expanded to the north uh we're recommending the change Off The Runway um that would be kind of a hight traic area um so so that's that's largely we're kind of filling in those gaps um particularly to the north where we had uh there was also some addition of some off Street paths to the north where there's some questions about future interchanges uh with heer Road and trying to provide better cycling experience across those who not competing with ramps okay so then the next thing was Street networks I I looked at that and it you know all looked logical to me in terms of uh what was being looked at to connect there's one in our slide that we we definitely want and to highlight okay good so so let's talk about this um so nusa Trails is super interesting because this is the ride of way as it exists now sorry sorry sorry it's perfect it's all good it's theum that's it's all good you're good um so ncusa Trail was you know pretty it it was platic to the old the one thing we have to remember is Sycamore Park was not always Sycamore park it was Sycamore landfill um and so that obviously is no longer a landfill it is a park it's a dog park there are some um uh on you know we have to monitor it because it is a landfill um can you show to the put it up in what um just the presenter view yeah yeah I'm trying but doesn't show the pictures it's perfect that's okay through um so wait wait wait hold on second before we go so there's a couple things that before we go into this so the one thing that I that we notice right away is you look at the street Network even if nusa Trails goes through um we end up having a drive or aor neighborhood south south of Sycamore this front door really becomes Commercial Avenue and Highway 30 that is completely separate from the neighborhood to the east that is really centered on Thompson drive so we have these two adjacent residential neighbors that that almost have nothing to do with each other and we have a street that was never built because it's probably next to a landfill and no one wanted to be there so now we have a couple situations the first one is where nusa Trail Ends it we've terminated into a bike path they um you know it's it's a it's a great path we're also hearing um that there's a lot of actual cars that are driving on there at night creating safety problems can you go the next one we also know that when we look at down at that intersection down at Commercial Avenue and pulley Drive uh we took this we did a neighborhood walk and and it was an extremely uncomfortable place to walk there's no sidewalks there and you can see from the tire tracks cars aren't exactly slowing down when they when they fly through that intersection so we have a couple problematic intersections um we have an unlined neighborhood and two US The Logical solution or one of the logical Solutions is trying to reconnect these neighborhoods with a A Street Network um that is always challenging as you know um our thought is this could exist as a phase project with one phase possibly looking at extending ncusa Trail through the existing right of way to pulley and over time as the opportunities and as Parks has gets the opportunity to adjust their Parks master plan for Sycamore um they could extend the the the street to Jana to better connect the neighborhood very nice um so that is that is our question for nusa trail um as you know Street connections are are are are challenging um I don't I don't want to um diminish that but it does seem one one that that could have long-term value I'm good that what would be the challenge of just going all the way to Jana now it's a par thing uh it would just be a political question budgeting and political question I so basically plan for it but maybe not do it right this second yes so one of the things that that we just want to also be respectful of parks they just went through their Parks master plan for Sycamore which did not reflect the trail that might be getting updated um as a result of this project because through one of our meetings they might actually be acquiring uh part of the Sterns packaging which is just to the north of the left arrow that big woodlands so as much as they just updated their plan they might be updating their plan very soon and looking at how this could work together Parks is is in support of this they know that um edges of parks that don't have street Frontage tend to become people's backyards um they don't have as high level of utilization people can't get to Parks they can't see them um and so they are supportive as well so okay okay so I'm seeing thumbs up and shaking heads okay so we have five more minutes can you brief us on number 12 within five minutes okay and uh we'll see if we can at least so couple things in building Heights with did are unique we have similarities and differences from the West area first we have presence proactive resoning yeah East Town oh East yes so we at this point we haven't studied uh proactive resoning extensively uh because of the high level that was done for um the greater Easttown area plan but we and also the official mapping we do know that there was a different approach for the greater East Town area plan as well as the Odana area plan um I believe that had to do with the support of the elected officials at the time uh we do know that there's been a lot of change in sentiment about trying to be more aggressive to encourage housing we could definitely take a look again at East Town to see if there are streets that might make sense to uh officially map to better reflect the network that was envisioned in that plan if it's at the you know if it's something that plan commission thinks makes sense um I am a fan of proactive resoning I mean if we if we have plans and we don't do that it makes it like very difficult then to Implement our plan so I a yes look at it person I'm seeing another thumbs up the question is if they should explore we're not all right good because I had many questions that 3 minutes will not be enough so yes explore and then right chair exactly yes so the last thing I think we want to have a maybe even start the discussion because I think it leads into that proactive resoning conversation is about the building Heights okay really quick can can we just make sure that we're very proactive and communicating with the owners there because I think we've had several um items on our agenda the last two years where they felt they weren't communicated with and I think one was some mapping stuff one was you know land use and they felt like we were steamrolling them so let's make sure if we can make sure we do that I think that'd be great so thank you I was going to add I know we've discussed this before with official mapping but ensuring that our official map is actually accessible because it does have huge implications for Property Owners so how is that electronically available and communicated to people I would want to have that in place before we continue doing aggressive official mapping okay but we're not doing anything cuz it just exploring exploring exploring it is 7:58 right now we do not have time to get into Heights um because we have a hard cut off at 8:00 which we have adhered to in the past and I'm going to just ask can is this something that we could have at the tail end of our January meeting then to further discuss these things I'm looking at looking at Kevin fko over there I I think we can Let's uh let's take another look at the meet of on that agenda already see whether the lighter of the two January agendas yep okay okay okay and if the commission would also like to have the broader discussion about some of the Shar issues that are facing I think that's really important for us as a staff team the plan retirement that's a that's a big one we do the demo one too at that time or would that be that's what we were looking at doing yeah hopefully that would be fairly quick and that demo thing is from a year ago the plan commission asked to have this that kind of thing done because Commissioners were clearly considering future and there was not really a reason not to if there were AAL use so anyway I I think that um that that should be fairly quick I wish we could do it Monday while it's fresh in our minds but I understand we can't yeah I know I wanted to to okay legally we we may be able to change the agenda check yeah okay I mean that's I mean it's posted yeah anyway publicly but we could amend the agenda to add one items which one I would do I would do the demo because I don't think I think that that's less controversial and of Interest staff will be in touch with the chair tomorrow okay okay yeah yeah if it works if it doesn't work then okay I want to say thank you very much to staff there clearly has been a lot of work done on uh on all these things so thank you very much anything else before I look for a motion to adjourn anything else okay then I think we're looking for a motion motion to um move by Alder figuro a Cole is there a second seconded by Kathleen Spencer and I will assume unanimous consent unless I see a raised hand to object seeing no raised hands we're adjourned thank you very much everybody you that