Based on the context provided and the content of the discussion, here is the transcribed townhall meeting for the City of Hermantown Planning and Zoning Commission. **Note on Roles:** * **Corey Cole Quest:** Chairperson of the Planning & Zoning Commission. * **Eric Johnson:** Community Development Director (referred to as "Eric"). * **John Geissler:** City Councilor (acting as the Council liaison to the Commission). * **Samuel Clark / Valerie:** Planning & Zoning Commission Members. *** [0:01] **Corey Cole Quest:** Good evening everybody we'd like to welcome you to the Planning and Zoning Commission meeting for the city of Hermantown for September 19, 2023. It's currently seven o'clock in the evening. We're going to start looking at the roll call. Got myself Corey Cole Quest here, Samuel Clark, Valerie Buckley-Simmons and Dante Tomasoni are not here, and John Geissler here. Thank you for that. Uh, second is an approval of this evening's agenda. Can I get a motion please? [0:38] **John Geissler:** So moved. [0:39] **Corey Cole Quest:** Thank you for that. Can I get a second? [0:41] **Samuel Clark:** Second. [0:42] **Corey Cole Quest:** Cole Quest with a second, thank you. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Motion passes. Next this evening is the approval of the minutes from the July 18, 2023 regular meeting. [0:49] **Corey Cole Quest:** Can I get a motion for that please? [0:53] **John Geissler:** Motion to approve. [0:54] **Corey Cole Quest:** Thank you for that. Get a second? [0:56] **Samuel Clark:** Second. [0:57] **Corey Cole Quest:** Thank you. Aye. Motion passes as well. Number four is public discussion. Is anybody here to speak on an item that is not on this evening's agenda? If you are, the time to do so is now. Seeing none, item number five this evening is the application by Union Cemetery Association for a rezoning of 6.4 acre parcel located at 3807 Getchell Road. The parcel is zoned R3 residential. Eric, what do you have on this one? [1:35] **Eric Johnson:** Great, thank you very much and I'm going to try to find that sweet spot so we don't echo so much, but they can hear us at home tonight. So this is a property at 3807 Getchell Road. As I said, it's an existing cemetery, Union Cemetery. It's comprised of two different parcels of land basically split running north-south. And the cemetery is looking to subdivide the northern six-plus acres of the cemetery which is currently not being utilized; it's an existing green space, forested land that occurs in this area on the screen. So, as you recall, Bethany Cemetery last year did something similar. [2:21] **Corey Cole Quest:** Hold for a second, they're having a hard time hearing. There's a sweet spot. If I turn this off they can't hear us at home either, but if I mute here—I'll try that. If I mute here they lose it at home and there's the people from the Twin Cities for the next one. You want to turn it on for that? Unless we all kill our mics. That's the only way to do it because it's picking up all of our mics. Can we try that? I can try it. [2:53] **Corey Cole Quest:** Questions? Is this better? Still got it. Let's try it. [3:12] **Eric Johnson:** We'll try this one more time. Come on over here. Uh oh no, yeah, I'm gonna go... [3:50] **Eric Johnson:** So since I believe the only one that's online... we have two people online, I'm trusting that they might be here for another item. So at least I think the majority of you are here tonight for this first application. So I'll try to bring my mic back online afterwards. So getting back to it, this is the northern six-plus acres of the Union Cemetery site. As I mentioned, the property is currently in two parcels that run—the dividing line essentially runs north-south. Union Cemetery—this is an area that has some existing wetland as well as wooded area associated, not used by the cemetery. Similar to Bethany Cemetery that we went through a year ago, with an increase in cremations, they're not finding the need so much for additional burial plots that way. And so in this case, this is actually the third cemetery that's looked to divest themselves of some land, the first one actually being Sunrise Cemetery that switched over a couple of their parcels to commercial. So once again, this before us this evening is basically it's going to be the subdivision of this proposed lot here into this 6.4 acres plus or minus for a rezoning from P (Public) to R3 (Residential). At this time there are no applications for anything to occur on this property, but what this does is allows Union Cemetery to market this as a potential residentially zoned property at that point. So that would have to be a step that occurs prior to a sale because otherwise a person will be buying public property. If and when, assuming this is favorably viewed by Planning Commission and approved by City Council, any future applications for development other than essentially a couple lots would still come back to Planning and Zoning as well as City Council as far as any potential development that way. But this evening all that we're looking at is a change from P (Public) to R3 for the northern 6.4 acres of this lot. Any questions or comments so far? [6:12] **Corey Cole Quest:** Is the application by the Union Cemetery? [6:15] **Eric Johnson:** Yeah, they're the overall arching owner of that because I looked at the billing address and it's the same one for those things. And what we're going to do is part of this is we'll have essentially we'd have them combine those two lots so right now it would be essentially there would be a north and a south lot at that point. So that would make the most sense from at least a zoning or a cleanup standpoint. [6:40] **Corey Cole Quest:** Or by any chance would you like to speak, sir? Come on up please. State your name and address for the record. [6:57] **Doug Peterson:** Yes please. My name is Doug Peterson. My address is 3720 Alexander Road in Hermantown. Um, as was stated, to keep the cemetery viable we need to sell some property that we... and like you said there's more cremations than there is full burials these days so we don't need the property for that. [7:18] **Corey Cole Quest:** Commission members, any other questions? What are the applicants so far? [7:31] **Doug Peterson:** I believe it was some churches in the West End like First Covenant and Temple Baptist and one other to start with. First Covenant was the leading head of that, but it was in the late 1800s. Yep. [7:46] **Corey Cole Quest:** Any other questions for this gentleman at this time? Thank you very much sir, we might need you to come back. If anybody would like to come and speak on this, we're going to open up a public hearing of this at 7:08 PM. Please come on up, state your name and address for the record. [8:05] **William Han:** Hi there, good morning Council. My name is William Han, I live at 3840 Getchell Road directly across the street. I have a couple of concerns, primarily dealing with the wildlife in the area. We have the pond directly across from it and we know it is a wetland. We see the water levels rising and it's a runoff pond, but my concern is that the muskrats and the other animals that habitate our area, they share the adjacent space across the street. And as those... as it's developed and the wetlands are kind of pushed out and drainage is improved—because it's going to have to be improved if it's a marsh territory—the impacts for our property across the street... it may dry up their habitat. So that's one of the concerns. And then, we have little kids. We picked this place out in Hermantown specifically for its remoteness and the access. With additional houses and some of the construction traffic, it could potentially have some impacts for the families that live in our area too. So as a concerned citizen, not that I'm trying to stifle growth—I like the idea of development, it's great for the city, it's great for most everybody—but in this case, concerns to the habitat that we've... the pristine environment that we moved into, and then also watching out for our kids in the traffic on the streets. But that's our... that's the concerns that we have. I appreciate it. [9:36] **Corey Cole Quest:** Thank you very much this evening. Please. [9:45] **Greg Zimmerman:** All right, Greg Zimmerman, 3855 Getchell Road. Um, I don't enjoy being on the side of the table as much but, um, my question is about my understanding that there's a pending sale on the property. Is that the case? And if so, what is the intentions for the use of that? Is that going to be divided up into lots or is there a development plan for that? [10:02] **Eric Johnson:** There's been no application at this time. I've heard rumors of a sale as well, but until an application is made we have nothing to go on. So right now all that we're looking at is the rezoning from P (Public) to R3 (Residential). You know, if and when an application comes in, it'll come back before this group again. [10:24] **Greg Zimmerman:** All right. I don't know if Doug would be able to clarify on that or if there's anything to say about that at this time, but that's basically my questions. Thanks. [10:35] **Corey Cole Quest:** Craig, come on up. State your name. [10:39] **Nancy Dever:** My name is Nancy Dever. I live at 3868 Getchell Road. I'm down the road from this development but I'm concerned for... I'm just going to highlight three concerns. The first one is, living there almost nine years now, it became a friendly road for walkers during the lockdown I noticed, and it's become a very busy recreational road. You might say dog walking especially, people walking, runners, bikers. It's very narrow; there is not... you know, you'd have to jump into a ditch if you had to ditch a car. And I'm concerned because it already feels like, especially with all the growth to the north of us and to the east on Stebner Road... recently Stebner at Hermantown and Stebner at Anderson where I need to make my escapes to come east, I've had to turn around and go back up Getchell to Maple Grove because the cars coming up and down Stebner are... it's become quite... I mean just a few times... the years I've been here, I can't believe the traffic growth and this is going to be another section of traffic growth. And I'm really concerned about this because the narrowness of the road is kind of dicey as it is and a lot of people use it, including me. That's why we love to be out where we are in Hermantown and enjoy that. And I'm pretty sure that if there's six acres... I don't know how many people might be building on that but that's going to bring in an enormous amount of machinery. It's certainly going to affect the wetland concerns that I have. I have a background in environmental botany and research and I've noticed that there has been... there's obligate wetland plants there, species in high... And the other thing that concerns me is we are going to experience a lot more rain; we know it's coming in around the world. It's going to hit here like it did in 2012. And I'm concerned where is that water going as we keep building. It has to go somewhere and it's going to go down these narrow banks, it's going to go to maybe his pond, I'm not sure. But I have two questions: Has that been looked at for mitigation and for just a site analysis of its importance as a wetland and a water holder? And I can just tell you there's an amazing number of wildlife there. I have seen ducks and three species of frogs directly in the deepest part of that area where it stays wet for pretty much till snow. But it also comes up and down. I noticed when we had real wet years it got really high and would flood part of the road occasionally. So that being to me a real concern of protecting our wetlands and making sure that they don't disappear because... where does the water go? It's going to go somewhere. It's going to go to maybe our basements, our house, I don't know, down the road towards... I'm at the bottom of the hill. So I have some concerns about that. The second one is the traffic concerns. When I lived out state in Bucks County, Pennsylvania, they began building on big lots, but as the traffic grew the roads became very dangerous. At the narrow roads they did research—I was part of it because I was working at a nature preserve—a family of three plus moving into a nice big house will bring anywhere from four to eight more daily cars per house into the area. That's a lot of traffic for that little part of the road and I'm really concerned about that. Not to mention the disruption of whatever building might go on. That's my two biggest ones, but I would like to see if there's been any mitigation prepared for this if and when it is developed. Whether it's one house or three or four, I'd like to see that addressed. And if this is an important wetland, how will they deal with that? Thank you. [15:51] **Corey Cole Quest:** There's no plans have been turned into the city for actually developing a lot. We're just here to look at new zoning. It'll be different when those plans come forward someday, we can address a lot of those concerns at that point. But right now it's like we're just looking at the rezoning. And I will grab it from there. [16:11] **Eric Johnson:** Thank you, Mr. Chair. A wetland delineation has been performed. It's going to be reviewed out in the field by myself, St. Louis County Soil Water Conservation District, Board of Water and Soil Resources which is the state, as well as the Corps of Engineers and the DNR. So we're going to be out on site this coming Monday. They look at the report that's been prepared by Mr. Rob Peterson who was frankly one of the best in the business up here as far as the wetland delineations go. So the delineation will be looked at; that'll either be modified or concurred with at that time, and then that serves as a basis for if and when this property would develop at that point. If there are wetland impacts per the WCA (Wetland Conservation Act), they're allowed up to 10,000 square feet of wetland impact or five percent of the total wetland on site, whichever is less. Looking at it initially, I think it's coming in around maybe 3,500 or 4,000 square feet is what they can fall under for the nationwide permit. If they exceed that they'd have to get into the point where they'd have to purchase wetland credits. But once again, that's all dependent upon whoever develops the site. So as Mr. Peterson talked and we're just looking at the rezoning tonight, if and when an application comes in, all more of those deeper things come in. You start looking at storm water, you look at the wetlands, and all these things from a system-wide way. [17:39] **Corey Cole Quest:** Any other questions or comments this evening? Not seeing any, we'll close the public hearing at 7:18. [18:00] **Corey Cole Quest:** Commission members, Councilor, any other questions or comments on this one this evening? [18:08] **Eric Johnson:** Anything else there? No, that sums it up. Once again I said, you know, if and when, assuming this is rezoned, that this would come back to—if it was anything more than three or four homes—anything it's more than three homes, it would have to come back to this board. Because you have the ability to what's called administratively subdivide, and so I always tell people the city can create three brand new lots, but at the fourth lot it requires a plat. And this property, I want to say, is plus or minus a little over 600 feet of basically lot width or frontage. Under the standard R3 zoning, it's not to say that it couldn't come in as a PUD (Planned Unit Development), but under standard zoning a lot width is 100 feet. So in theory, if you just subdivide this 100 feet up, there could be six lots there under standard zoning, but they have to come back because it would be a plat scenario. And once again that's under standard zoning. Planned Unit Development is also a potential option for any sort of development in the city. [19:15] **Samuel Clark:** And then I guess one other quick question for Eric. So just to make sure I'm understanding: So on the proposed zoning map in our packets, it looks like it's R3 zoning all the way around, so we're not doing any sort of spot zoning. We're just shrinking that Public and bringing in what's surrounding? [19:30] **Eric Johnson:** Correct, that is correct. Yes. [19:32] **Samuel Clark:** Okay, thank you. [19:47] **Nancy Dever:** What is the correct—or if it's been changed—setback for a home development? [19:58] **Eric Johnson:** So under standard R3 zoning it's a 50-foot front yard setback, a minimum of a 10-foot side setback (we call an aggregate of 25, so essentially one side's 10, one side's 15 for a total of 25), and a rear yard is 40 feet. That's under standard zoning. [20:25] **Nancy Dever:** Okay, thank you. [20:27] **Eric Johnson:** Those can be modified depending on the type of development. I just want to know the basics because I wasn't able to find them. Thank you. [20:41] **Corey Cole Quest:** Not seeing any other, I look for a motion on 5A, the application for rezoning at the 6.4 acre parcel located at 3807 Getchell Road. [20:53] **John Geissler:** So moved. [20:54] **Corey Cole Quest:** Thank you for that. Can I get a second? [20:56] **Samuel Clark:** Cole Quest with the second. [20:57] **Corey Cole Quest:** All in favor? Aye. [20:58] **Eric Johnson:** So to help out the members of the audience, this will go to the city council meeting. And at the City Council, there's actually two readings for rezonings. The first reading is essentially for informational owning and then the second meeting—that's when the City Council would take action on it. So at that, you're welcome to attend both meetings but public comment is typically taken at the meeting where action is taken. So it would be October... if you could come to the prior one and speak during the public comment period... If you come on the 2nd, if you recall when the chair asked the beginning if under public discussion, that is when you would talk on the 2nd. If you come on the 16th, when this item comes up, the Mayor would actually ask for public comment on that specific item. So you could have the ability to speak on this twice, both on the 2nd and then as well on the 16th. The 16th being the date that action would be taken. [22:18] **Corey Cole Quest:** Yeah, I think it's the 9th? No, it's the 2nd and the 16th. [22:23] **Eric Johnson:** Thank you very much, October 2nd and October 16th. First and third Mondays of October. Please find more information on the website as well. [22:39] **Corey Cole Quest:** Thank you for that and thank you for the clarification. This evening public hearing 5B is an application by Civil Site Corp for a commercial Industrial Development for a 10,700 square foot building expansion of the Titan Machinery business along with associated stormwater improvements. The property is located at 4311 Haines Road. Eric, what do you have first on this one? [23:05] **Eric Johnson:** Well great, thank you very much and bear with me. I'm going to turn the mic back on. David and the other member, can you hear me at home? [23:24] **David (Zoom):** Yes, I can hear you. [23:25] **Eric Johnson:** Perfect, thank you. I want to apologize to the group, we're going to have some feedback. As you mentioned, this is a 7.17 acre site and it's the existing Titan Machinery at 4311 Haines Road. It's its own business, light manufacturing. The applicant is looking to construct a 10,700 square foot building addition. The purpose of that is going to be a five-bay workshop addition. It will be located on the western portion of the property. So on the screen right now, this ghosted area, that's the existing building with the parking. This is their existing Class 5 surfacing that they have in the rear portion of the property. This is where the building addition is planned for the backside. The walls will be precast concrete, will be similar to the existing building and look at the finish as well. The building addition is now shown on the screen as well. At its high point, it's a 29-foot height building and the lot coverage would be eight percent total of this lot. The BLM allows up to 35 lot coverage so it's still, from a building standpoint, very little on this property. The proposed building location meets or exceeds all the required setbacks. There'll still be spaces for 15 parking spaces. The applicant has had conversations with St. Louis County as they are the traffic control for Haines Road, and as part of that, the Haines Road entrance will be closed and the West Arrowhead entrance will become a right-in, right-out. So from a traffic standpoint, it seems to be a good agreement between the two entities that way. The existing building does have a connection to water and sewer, and there will be a proposed stormwater structure located in this northwest portion of the site to capture and treat stormwater before it's released into the wetlands and associated Miller Creek at that point. The wetland delineation was reviewed and approved back in August and there are no proposed wetland impacts associated with the proposed work as this is to be handled within that existing Class 5 area as it exists today. [26:30] **Corey Cole Quest:** Commission members, any questions or comments so far? [26:35] **Samuel Clark:** No questions. [26:43] **Eric Johnson:** David and a 952 number, but at this point I don't believe they have any questions or comments. [26:59] **Corey Cole Quest:** State your name and address for the record, please. [27:05] **Nancy Dever:** Nancy Dever, 3868 Getchell Road. I'm just concerned for the wetlands there. As far as it's just not going to change, they're just working in that existing gravel area now? There's no wetland impacts associated with this? My concern is that... go ahead build... I don't know how many years... and it had in the spring that it's flooding and I just... [28:45] **Nancy Dever:** Thank you. It was one of the United States that will exist for them. I would all have to say that because I just do whatever... it was fine, but I wouldn't want to... we were filling more of them, it would be a concern on my property. [30:08] **Eric Johnson:** Yeah, right now like you said, they're just working in an existing area and the benefit of this new development is they're actually going to provide some stormwater controls which don't exist today. [30:25] **Nancy Dever:** So this gravel or whatever? [30:27] **Eric Johnson:** Absolutely, yeah. Change in the city classifies gravel in Class 5 as an impervious surface so it's the same. And just with the nature of the large machines and track vehicles that they have, they envision that will still be gravel back there. We do allow that; it's when parking surfaces... that's where we want to see pave. But these heavy traffic zones with that type of machinery, we realize that would cause issues. [31:21] **Nancy Dever:** That was really a major thing and uh... in my, you know, there used to be a beaver pond there. But um, you know, do someone here? [32:12] **Nancy Dever:** So, um, oh... thank you very much commissioners. [32:51] **Corey Cole Quest:** Item 5C is an application by Civil Site Corp for a special use permit for grading and filling in a National Environment Shoreline area for the purpose of constructing a 10,700 square foot building expansion of the Titan Machinery business. Eric. [33:18] **Eric Johnson:** Well great, thank you. This is a continuation or basically the next step of this project. I'm still having it on speaker just for the people at home. So on the screen right now, you see this is the area of the National Environment Shoreland area. Right now, except that that is existing gravel that exists in that property right now, just looking at grading activities that they're going to be doing to be able to direct some stormwater to this back corner where that drainage structure will be. That's what requires this special use permit since we're going to be doing work essentially in this 10,000 square foot area. [34:12] **Corey Cole Quest:** Motion? [34:15] **John Geissler:** Motion to approve. [34:16] **Corey Cole Quest:** Second? [34:18] **Samuel Clark:** Focus for the second. [34:19] **Corey Cole Quest:** All in favor? Aye. [34:29] **Eric Johnson:** Well great, thank you. This is more or less just information for the group. The City and HEDA (Hermantown Economic Development Authority) have been working on with the owners of the property at Highway 53 and Laveque bypass for the last probably six eight months on this environmental scoping document. This is a document that will help at least answer some of the environmental questions associated with any future development of that property there. So we've gone through a number of steps in this scoping document and right now this is the draft AUAR (Alternative Urban Areawide Review). So it's open up for public comment; there's a 30-day period. It started last Tuesday, a week ago, and it runs through the middle of October. So we do have this document on the city's website. I'm working with Mr. Wicklund to make sure it's a little bit more easily obtainable but right now—and if I can attempt to share a screen—it's under the City's website under "Business" and then we have a tab for "Economic Development" or "HEDA". That opens up a tab where it says "Highway 53 Business Park Project" and the second tab down is actually the AUAR Hermantown Draft. That has a 330-some page document in there. Right above it is the "Notice of Draft Availability". So if any of you have the desire to look at that, you have questions or comments, it refers you back to me to provide written comments. Those comments then are forwarded to our consultant, Barr, and those are then answered as part of this process. So once again, I just wanted to give you this information should you have any desire to review the document, ask any questions, or provide comments. [36:38] **Corey Cole Quest:** Thank you for that Eric. Number seven, any new business? [36:44] **Eric Johnson:** Yes there is, and I apologize I didn't have that on there now. Associated once again with this business park, proposed business park, staff has been working in an actual brand new zoning district. Because the Hermantown Business Park zoning district... and what we've been looking at is taking elements from the Business Light Manufacturing, a bit from the C-Commercial as well as some from the HM-Hermantown Marketplace to kind of meld this new business park zoning district. Staff plans on bringing that to the October P&Z for your essentially review and potentially vote. You know, if there's other questions we can definitely continue that into November. But it's not as cumbersome as the sign ordinance was or a PUD, so it should be a little bit more streamlined. The goal is is to allow or at least to identify uses, site design, etc., that's a little bit higher quality than you would typically see just in our straight business light manufacturing districts. Once again, it takes some elements from the Hermantown Marketplace but doesn't go as far as getting into specific building materials, landscaping, etc., that way. [37:46] **Corey Cole Quest:** Thank you again. Uh, looks like there was a communication, a correspondence from Adele Siemensen. [38:21] **Eric Johnson:** I apologize, I'm gonna look at my packet. Did you have questions with that or...? [38:25] **Corey Cole Quest:** I do not. Does anybody have any questions? [38:28] **John Geissler:** Yeah, it doesn't really matter to me, I think I didn't see it in our packet. [38:31] **Eric Johnson:** Yeah, and I apologize. I'll give you a brief synopsis. Mr. Siemensen owns property at the end of Benson Road which is located south of Morris Thomas, I believe it's off of Laveque. His property has public right-of-way which abuts the property, but the road stops about 80 feet short of that. So it's been the city's policy in any type of scenario like that that if there wants to be any development of that property, the road has to extend to the property—that we don't allow private driveways in public right-of-way. Staff has met with Mr. Siemensen a couple times out on the property to discuss this with them and as well as to roughly locate where this gravel ends today. Staff also went back into aerials back in 1972 showing the same location of this gravel roadway through the decades. There had been some concerns from Mr. Siemensen that in his opinion that road progressed further into the lot, but at least on aerial photo data it was supporting what you see there today. I think he was expressing his concerns in that letter. I can make sure that it's part of your packet for the October meeting. [39:46] **John Geissler:** Yeah, I think everybody needs to read it front to back. It's quite entertaining so please, yeah, we need to make sure that they get it. [39:52] **Eric Johnson:** But just wanted to try to give you a brief synopsis of at least what staff has encountered. [39:58] **Corey Cole Quest:** Okay nice, thank you for that. Number nine, commission member reports. Nothing from myself. Mr. Clark? [40:11] **Samuel Clark:** I guess I have a question. Is now the time or...? [40:14] **Corey Cole Quest:** Sure, fire away. [40:15] **Samuel Clark:** So with P&R backing out of the Engwall's property, what comes about with the TIFF (Tax Increment Financing) and how does all that sit? Can someone pick it up and move forward? [40:27] **John Geissler:** You could make a motion to rezone it back. [40:31] **Samuel Clark:** Well, I was just... I guess I'm just... where is all that stand now with P&R backing out of the deal? [40:38] **Eric Johnson:** The staff has only heard verbal; we've not received any sort of written statement from P&R. So that's all I can at least comment on as far as: Are they a go? Are they a no-go? If for some reason they are a no-go, it is still an active TIFF district and someone has the ability to do a development in there—could qualify for TIFF under the redevelopment district. But they will need to go through the exact same process to show the need for TIFF and have a project that would generate the monies or the taxes needed to support a TIFF district as well. It's a fairly cumbersome property and that property process, but we have good professionals in place with Mr. Overom as the City Attorney in these matters as well as a company out of the Twin Cities named Ehlers that provides all that information and background. So should P&R not be pursuing the site, once again it is still an active TIFF district. If someone came in for with something that was very similar to it... once again you have to show the math and that the need is there that TIFF could be a possibility for a development. Once again, if you come into something—"I'm going to build a small coffee shop"—you're not going to get TIFF. "I'm going to build a 10,000 square foot building"—you're not going to get TIFF. Since you need something of that magnitude that will generate those numbers. [42:15] **Samuel Clark:** Secondary question: how long does that TIFF district stay in place? [42:20] **Eric Johnson:** Uh, I do not have an answer for that. I mean, I would assume that could be retracted by Council action. We could go that way. But right now it's been deemed as a blighted property by a professional, LHB, and as of right now it is an active TIFF district. [42:47] **John Geissler:** Not yet. Well, they haven't even made an application, so there's nothing to back out. This is true. I mean there's nothing other than they showed interest but they never applied for anything. So if they're backing out, it's only from verbal discussion and it's more of a backing out of a purchase agreement with the property owner is probably what it is. So what Mr. Geissler just said... yeah, there's no applications with the city so there's nothing to retract from there and that way there's no development agreements in place between the cities nor P&R. They're just not buying the property right. That's what it sounds like based on the fact that they were interested. [43:33] **Samuel Clark:** Yep. [43:35] **Corey Cole Quest:** Thank you for that. Valerie, any report? [43:40] **Valerie Buckley-Simmons:** Um, just read comments and will not be here for the article review. [43:46] **Corey Cole Quest:** Thank you for that. Samuel Clark. [43:50] **Samuel Clark:** I was just gonna say that I've enjoyed my time on the P&Z but after this month I will be stepping down. I've got a lot of other stuff going on. [44:03] **Corey Cole Quest:** Well, thanks for joining us all these years. [44:05] **John Geissler:** Yeah, honestly yeah. [44:11] **Samuel Clark:** I was gonna wait till after the meeting just because I've enjoyed my time so again... [44:23] **Corey Cole Quest:** Thank you very much. With that, I look for a motion to adjourn. Can I get a second? [44:29] **Samuel Clark:** Second. [44:32] **Corey Cole Quest:** Thank you for that. All in favor? Aye. We're gonna close the meeting at 7:44 PM. Thank you very much.