APRIL 17, 2023 >> Chair Downs: OKAY. THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE THIS EVENING. THANKS TO MY MIC MAN UP THERE FOR MAKING SURE I'M TURNED ON. HE'S TAKING CARE OF ME, AS ALWAYS. APPRECIATE YOU BEING HERE. IT'S 7:00. WE WILL START OUR REGULARLY-SCHEDULED MEETING. IF YOU WOULD, PLEASE RISE AND JOIN ME IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE. [PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE] >> COMMENTS OF PUBLIC INTEREST THIS PORTION OF THE MEETING IS TO ALLOW UP TO THREE MINUTES PER SPEAKER WITH 30 TOTAL MINUTES ON ITEMS OF INTEREST OR CONCERN AND NOT ON ITEMS THAT ARE ON THE CURRENT AGENDA. THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MAY NOT DISCUSS THESE ITEMS, BUT MAY RESPOND WITH FACTUAL OR POLICY INFORMAT THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MAY CHOOSE TO PLACE THE ITEM ON A FUTURE AGENDA. THE PRESIDING OFFICER MAY MODIF. >> Chair Downs: I SEE WE HAVE THREE SPEAKERS. >> WE DO. FIRST IS ELENA BORK. >> Chair Downs: IF THE REST OF YOU WANT TO COME DOWN AND SIT DOWN FRONT. WE KNOW WHO YOU ARE. IT'S GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN. THANKS FOR BEING HERE. >> HELLO, AGAIN. >> Chair Downs: HI. >> GOOD EVENING. >> Chair Downs: NAME, ADDRESS. YEP. >> MY NAME IS ELENA BURKE. I HAVE LIVED IN MY PLANO HOME FOR 30 YEARS NEXT MONTH, 6232 WEST CHESTER LANE. WHEN OUR KIDS WERE YOUNG THEY WOULD RUN BACK AND FORTH TO THEIR FRIEND' HOME , PLAY IN THE FRONT YARD, RIDE BIKES AROUND THE BLOCK. NOT SO MUCH ANYMORE. YOUNG KIDS IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD HAVE A DIFFERENT AND MORE RESTRICTIVE EXPERIENCE THESE DAYS AS SEVERAL STRs, SHORT-TERM RENTALS, EXIST IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD, BRINGING TOTAL STRANGERS INTO THE MIX. THESE RENTERS ARE KNOWN BY NONE OF US. THEY ARE UNLIKE THE FAMILIES WHO OCCUPY LONG-TERM RENTAL HOMES AND BECOME PART OF THE FABRIC OF OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. WE BORROW MILK FROM EACH OTHER, SEE EACH OTHER AT THE NEIGHBORHOOD PICNIC PRESIDENT KNOW A BIT OF EACH OTHER'S STORY. THE PROBLEM WITH STRs IN OUR NEIGHBORHOODS IS SO DISTRESSING THAT MY HUSBAND AND I ACTUALLY WONDERED LAST WEEK WHERE WE MIGHT MOVE TO ESCAPE THIS SAME EXPERIENCE AND IT MIGHT NOT BE PLANO. WHAT A CRAZY SITUATION FOR THIS CITY. COUNCILMAN WILLIAMS CONJECTURED THAT SHORT-TERM RENTALS BE VIEWED THE WAY BOARDINGHOUSES ARE AS DEFINED IN OUR ZONING CODES. THIS SOUNDS LIKE SUCH A LOGICAL APPROACH AND CERTAINLY AN OPTION FOR DEALING WITH THIS ISSUE. I'M HOPEFUL THAT YOU ARE AWARE OF THE BILLS BEING PRESENTED AT THE STATE LEVEL WHICH ARE AIMED AT LIMITING THE POWER OF LOCAL MUNICIPALITIES. IT SEEMS LOGICAL TO A GREAT MANY OF US THAT THE CITY SHOULD ENDEAVOR TO HONOR THE VAST MAJORITY OF ITS CITIZENS OVER A MINORITY OF SHORT-TERM RENTAL OWNERS, MANY OF WHO DON'T LIVE OR HAVE A VESTED INTEREST IN THIS COMMUNITY. THANK YOU. >> Chair Downs: THANK YOU. >> NEXT WE HAVE BILL FRANCE. >> GOOD EVENING, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR SERVICE TO OUR CITY. I JUST WANTED TO BRING UP A FACT THAT ON MAY 8th YOU WILL BE INVITED -- >> SIR, WILL YOU PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS. >> MY NAME IS BILL FRANCE AND I LIVE AT 2712 BARRINGTON DRIVE IN PLANO, TEXAS. 26 YEARS. VERY HAPPILY. I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU ARE ALL GOING TO BE INVITED TO A JOINT MEETING WITH CITY COUNCIL WHERE THE DISCUSSION OF A TEMPORARY BAN ON SHORT-TERM RENTALS WILL BE DISCUSSED. AND I'M ENCOURAGING YOU TO VOTE FOR THE AFFIRMATIVE ON THAT, AND HERE'S WHY. THROUGHOUT THE CITY WITH THESE SHORT-TERM RENTALS. WE'VE HAD A BROTHEL, WE'VE HAD A SHOOTING, AND NOW THERE'S A CHILD PORNOGRAPHY RING THAT WAS JUST OPERATING AT A SHORT-TERM RENTAL AS WELL. THE CITY OF EXCELLENCE SHOULD NOT TOLERATE THIS TYPE OF BEHAVIOR. WE BELIEVE THIS NEEDS TO BE STOPPED AND AT A MINIMUM WE KNOW THAT YOU DO HAVE SOME LEGAL RESTRICTIONS ABOUT YOUR LATITUDE, WHAT YOU CAN AND CANNOT DO, BUT WE BELIEVE THAT THIS IS WELL WITHIN THE CITY'S LEGAL RIGHTS TO PUT A CAP AND A FREEZE ON THIS. TO EXAMINE THIS ISSUE AND THEN MAKE SOME SENSIBLE REGULATIONS IN ORDER TO CONTROL THIS MANIFESTATION. SO ASKING YOU, AS YOU ARE REALLY THE BACKSTOP TO A LOT OF WHAT WE RELY ON TO LIVE IN A PEACEFUL, SAFE NEIGHBORHOOD. SO WE ARE HOPING THAT YOU WILL TAKE OUR PLEA AND STAND FIRM WHEN IT COMES TO SUPPORTING THIS BAN. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME. >> Chair Downs: THANK YOU, MR. FRANCE. >> NEXT WE HAVE GREG PATILLO. >> GOOD EVENING. MY NAME IS GREG PATILLO. I HAVE LIVED IN PLANO AT 6229 WEST CHESTER LANE FOR ALMOST 30 YEARS. PISD ADOPTED ITS FISCAL 2022-2023 BUDGET WITH A DEFICIT. THIS IS DUE TO A RECAPTURE PAYMENT . PISD'S ENROLLMENT HAS BEEN DECLINING SINCE 2014-2015 FISCAL YEAR. THE DECLINE IS TYPICALLY ATTRIBUTED IN CHANGES TO PLANO'S POPULATION DEMOGRAPHIC. BUT IN THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS THERE'S BEEN ANOTHER FACTOR THAT MOST ANALYSTS OVERLOOK, AND THAT IS THE IMPACT OF SHORT-TERM RENTALS. USING A SIMPLE RATIO OF STUDENTS TO HOUSI UNITS, ENTIRE HOMES, SHORT-TERM RENTALS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR 267 STUDENTS DROPPED FROM PISD ENROLLMENT AS THEY DISPLACED RESIDENTS AND FAMILIES WITH TRANSIENTS. THIS RESULTS IN A LOSS OF $1.65 MILLION ANNUALLY JUST IN THE BASIC ALLOTMENT AND MORE THAN $2.5 MILLION ANNUALLY FOR TOTAL AVERAGE DAILY ATTENDANCE. THE LOST REVENUE DUE TO SHORT-TERM RENTALS REPRESENTS ABOUT 7% OF THE 2022-2023 DEFICIT. THE STUDENTS DISPLACED REPRESENT 19 TEACHER JOBS ELIMINATED TO DATE. JUST LOOKING AT THE DROP BETWEEN 2021 AND 2022 SCHOOL YEARS, THE 17% OF THE DROP OF ENROLLMENT CAN BE ATTRIBUTED TO SHORT-TERM RENTALS ALONE. THERE'S NOTHING THIS COMMITTEE, THE MAYOR, AND COUNCIL CAN DO REGARDING SCHOOL FINANCE AND THE RECAPTURE OF PAYMENTS THAT PISD MUST MAKE. NEW DEVELOPMENT OF MOSTLY MULTIFAMILY AND HIGH-DENSITY HOUSING WILL OFFER MINOR INCREASES THAT WILL NOT BE ENOUGH TO OFFSET LOSSES. SMALLER MORE AFFORDABLE HOUSING WILL NOT RESULT IN THE SIGNIFICANT GAINS NECESSARY TO SIGNIFICANTLY SHIFT THE DEMOGRAPHICS. THE ONE TNG THAT IS COMPLETELY IN CONTROL IS THE ZONING OF SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL HOUSING TO PROHIBIT THE PROLIFERATION OF SHORT-TERM RENTALS WHICH WILL CONTINUE TO ERODE AND HARM PISD. SURELY A STRONG PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM IS CONSIDERED IMPORTANT TO THE GENERAL WELFARE OF OUR COMMUNITY. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME THIS EVENING. >> Chair Downs: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. OKAY. SHALL WE MOVE ON TO THE CONSENT AGENDA? >> CONSENT AGENDA. THE CONSENT AGENDA WILL BE ACTED UPON IN ONE MOTION AND CONTAINS ITEMS WHICH ARE ROUTINE AND TYPICALLY NONCONTROVERSIAL. ITEMS MAY BE REMOVED FROM THIS AGENDA FOR INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION BY COMMISSIONERS OR STAFF. >> Chair Downs: WOULD ANYONE LIKE TO PULL AN ITEM FROM THE CONSENT AGENDA? ALL RIGHT. >> I MOVE WE APPROVE THE CONSENT AGENDA AS SUBMITTED. >> SECOND. >> Chair Downs: I HAVE A MOTION BY COMMISSIONER BRONSKY WITH A SECOND BY COMMISSIONER BROUNOFF TO APPROVE THE CONSENT AGENDA. PLEASE VOTE. THAT ITEM CARRIES BY A VOTE OF 6-0. PLEASE NOTE THAT WE ARE SHORT COMMISSIONER RATLIFF AND COMMISSIONER TONG THIS EVENING. >> ITEMS FOR INDIVIDUAL CONSID PUBLIC HEARING ITEMS. UNLESS INSTRUCTED OTHERWISE BY THE CHAIR, SPEAKERS WILL BE CALLED IN THE ORDER REGISTRATIONS ARE APPLICANTS ARE LIMITED TO A TOTAL OF 15 MINUTES OF PRESENTATION TIME WITH A FIVE-MINUTE REBUTTAL, IF NEEDED REMAINING SPEAKERS ARE LIMITED TO 30 TOTAL MINUTES OF TESTIMONY TIME, WITH THREE MINUTES ASSIGNED PER SPEAKER. THE PRESIDING OFFICER MAY MODIF THESE TIMES AS DEEMED NECESSARY ADMINISTRATIVE CONSIDERATION ITEMS MUST BE APPROVED IF THEY MEET CITY DEVELOPMENT REGULATIO LEGISLATIVE CONSIDERATION ITEMS ARE MORE DISCRETIONARY, EXCEPT AS CONSTRAINED BY LEGAL CONSIDE AGENDA ITEM NO. 1. PUBLIC HEARING: ZONING CASE 2022-009 - REQUEST TO REZONE 19.1 ACRES LOCATED AT THE SOUTHWEST CORNER OF PLANO PARKWAY AND EXECUTIVE DRIVE FROM CORRIDOR COMMERCIAL TO PLANNED DEVELOPME ZONED CORRIDOR COMMERCIAL AND LOCATED WITHIN THE 190 TOLLWAY/PLANO PARKWAY OVERLAY D PETITIONER(S): ONALP PROPERTY OWNER LLC. THIS IS FOR LEGISLATIVE CONSIDERATION. >> Chair Downs: DO YOU WANT TO READ ITEM 2? NO SORRY. THAT'S A DIFFERENT ONE. GO AHEAD. >> GOOD EVENING, COMMISSIONERS. MY NAME IS DONNA SEPULVEDA, SENIOR PLANNER WITH THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING TO TABLE THIS ITEM TO THE MAY 1st, 2023 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING AND IT IS RECOMMENDED THAT YOU ACCEPT THE RECOMMENDATION TO TABLE. >> Chair Downs: ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF ON THIS ITEM? MR. BROUNOFF. MICROPHONE PLEASE. >> Brounoff: DO YOU THINK THEY CAN BE READY TO GO ON MAY THE 1st? >> YES, WE BELIEVE THEY'LL BE READY. >> Brounoff: THANK YOU. >> Chair Downs: VERY GOOD. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. I'LL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. DO WE HAVE ANY SPEAKERS ON THIS ITEM? >> NO, WE DO NOT. >> Chair Downs: I'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. CONFINE THE DISCUSSION TO THE COMMISSION. MR. -- >> I WOULD JUST MAKE A MOTION THAT WE TABLE THIS TO MAY 1st AS SUGGESTED BY STAFF. >> SECOND. >> I CONTINUE TO BE VERY HOPEFUL THAT AS WE MADE THIS DELAY THAT THEY WILL BE ABLE TO GET TO THE LEVELS TO WHICH THEY, THEMSELVES HAVE DESCRIBED THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND THE PHASING REQUIREMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN TALKED ABOUT IN IT. >> Chair Downs: OKAY. SO WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. PLEASE VOTE. AND THAT ITEM CARRIES 6-0 TO TABLE IT TO MAY 1st. ITEM 2. >> AGENDA ITEM NO. 2. PUBLIC HEARING - PRELIMINARY REPLAT AND REVISED SITE PLAN: SWAMINARAYAN GURUKUL ADDITION, BLOCK A, LOT 1R - RELIGIOUS FACILITY ON ONE LOT ON 28.3 ACRES LOCATED ON THE WEST SIDE OF PARK VISTA ROAD, 730 FEET SOUTH OF GLENSCAPE CIRCLE. ZONED AGRICULTURAL. APPLICANT: THIS IS FOR ADMINISTRATIVE CONS. >> GOOD AFTERNOON, COMMISSIONERS. PARKER McDOWELL, PLANNER WI THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT. STAFF RECOMMENDS THE PRELIMINARY REPLAT FOR APPROVAL SUBJECT TO ADDITIONS AND/OR ALTERATIONS TO THE ENGINEERING PLAN AS REQUIRED BY THE ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT. STAFF RECOMMENDS THE SITE PLAN FOR APPROVAL AS SUBMITTED. I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS IF THERE ARE ANY. >> Chair Downs: QUESTIONS FOR STAFF ON THIS ITEM? COMMISSIONER BROUNOFF. MICROPHONE. >> Brounoff: I NOTICED THAT PART OF THIS PROPERTY LIES WITHIN THE CITY OF RICHARDSON, IS THAT CORRECT? >> ACTUALLY, IT IS ALL WHOLLY WITHIN THE CITY OF PLANO. THE PROPERTY LINE IS RIGHT ON THE CITY OF PLANO AND CITY O RICHARDSON LINE. >> Brounoff: NEVER MIND. THAT'S GOOD. >> Chair Downs: THANK YOU. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? SEEING NONE, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I'LL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. DO WE HAVE ANY SPEAKERS ON THIS ITEM? >> NO, WE DO NOT. >> Chair Downs: I WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. CONFINE THE DISCUSSION TO THE COMMISSION. >> I MOVE WE APPROVE THE PRELIMINARY REPLAT SUBJECT TO ADDITIONS AND/OR ALTERATIONS TO THE ENGINEERING PLAN AS REQUIRED BY THE ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT AND THE REVISED SITE PLAN AS SUBMITTED. >> Chair Downs: THANK YO. DO I HAVE A -- >> SECOND. >> Chair Downs: YOU'RE ACTING VERY TENTATIVE THIS EVENING, MR. LISLE. SOMEBODY SLAP YOU ON THE HAND? I SEE. VERY WELL. WE HAVE A MOTION BY COMMISSIONER BRONSKY WITH A SECOND BY COMMISSIONER LISLE TO APPROVE ITEM 2. PLEASE VOTE. AND THAT ITEM CARRIES 6-0. NON-PUBLIC HEARING ITEMS. >> NON-PUBLIC HEARING ITEMS. THE PRESIDING OFFICER WILL PERMIT LIMITED PUBLIC COMMENT FOR ITEMS ON THE AGENDA NOT POSTED FOR A PUBC HEING. THE PRESIDING OFFICER WILL ESTABLISH TIME LIMITS BASED UPO THE NUMBER OF SPEAKER REQUESTS, LENGTH OF THE AGENDA, AND TO ENSURE MEETING EFFICIENCY, AND MAY INCLUDE A TOTAL TIME LIMIT. AGENDA ITEM NO. 3. DISCUSSION AND DIRECTION. EXPRESSWAY CORRI ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH MAP AND GU APPLICANT: CITY OF PLANO. >> GOOD EVENING, COMMISSIONERS. CHRISTINA SEBASTIAN, LAND RECORDS PLANNING MANAGER. AT THE PREVIOUS COMMISSION MEETING, THE COMMISSION HAD& SOME QUESTIONS REGARDING THE EXPRESSWAY CORRIDOR ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH MAP AND GUIDELINES. I JUST WANT TO GIVE YOU SOME HISTORY ON THE MAP, ON HOW IT CAME TO BE, AND GET SOME DIRECTION ON WHERE WE MIGHT GO AS WE MOVE FORWARD WITH POTENTIAL UPDATES. FOR SOME GENERAL BACKGROUND, PLANO HAS LONG-STANDING POLICIES FOR EXPRESSWAY CORRIDORS TO RESTRICT RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT. THIS HAS THE BENEFIT OF SEPARATING USES FROM IMPACTS OF MAJOR ROADWAYS AND IT PRESERVES LAND FOR COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT . IN 1997 POLICY WAS PUT IN PLACE FOR A 1200-FOOT SEPARATION FROM CENTER LINES FROM STATE HIGHWAY 121. THESE POLICIES WERE ALSO ADOPTED BY ALLEN, FRISCO, McKINNEY, AND THE COLONY. HOWEVER, IN PLANO, WE HAVE EXPANDED THOSE POLICIES TO ALL OF OUR EXPRESSWAYS DOWN THE ROAD. BUT THAT 1200-FOOT, EVERY PROPERTY IS TREATED THE SAME CREATED SOME CHALLENGES AS THERE WAS SOME DISCRETION FOR COUNCIL TO REDUCE THAT DISTANCE AND CONSIDER THINGS LIKE TOPOGRAPHY AND CREEKS, VEGETATION. SO THIS RESULTED IN INCONSISTENT APPLICATION OF THE STANDARD. SO TO PROVIDE MORE INFORMED DATA-BASED POLICY, THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT CONTRACTED WITH HARRISON MILLER MILLER AND HANSON AND PRODUCED A STUDY IN 2019. THERE WERE A NUMBER OF MEETINGS BEFORE THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION ANDHEN RESULTING CITY COUNCIL ADOPTION IN OCTOBER OF THAT YEAR. SO THE PURPOSE OF THE STUDY WAS TO PROTECT OUR COMMUNITY FROM THE EFFECTS OF NOISE AND AIR POLLUTION CAUSED BY PROXIMITY TO EXPRESSWAYS. IS AFFECTED BY NOISE AND AIR POLLUTION, PARTICULARLY WHEN SLEEPING AT NIGHT. TRAFFIC-RELATED NOISE POLLUTION IS ASSOCIATED WITH HEART DISEASE, DIABETES, AND HYPERTENSION. AIR POLLUTION IS ASSOCIATED WITH ASTHMA, HEART DISEASE, AND PREGNANCY-RELATED ISSUES, BOTH OF THESE WITH MANY OTHER PO. IMPORTANTLY, PLANO'S MOST VULNERABLE POPULATION, CHILDREN, SENIORS, AND ADULTS WITH UNDERLYING HEALTH ISSUES ARE AT AN ELEVATED RISK. SO THESE ARE THE TYPES OF PEOPLE WE WERE LOOKING AT AS WE DEVELOPED WHAT SENSITIVE LAND USES THIS WOULD APPLY TO, WHEE PEOPLE SLEEP, WHERE CHILDREN AND SENIORS ARE MORE LIKELY TO SPEND TIME. SO TRAFFIC NOISE IS REALLY CREATED BY THE FRICTION OF TIRES ON THE ROADWAY. BUT IT IS IMPACTED BY VEHICLE SPEEDS VOLUMES AND PARTICULARLY TRUCK VOLUMES. THERE ARE A NUMBER OF AGENCIES THAT HAVE ESTABLISHED NOISE STANDARDS, INCLUDING THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY, THE FEDERAL HIGHWAY ADMINISTRATION, AND THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT. AS HUD HAS SIMILAR GOALS OF THE CITY TO PROVIDE PROTECTION TO RESIDENTS, ESSENTIALLY, THE GOALS THAT WE ENDED UP USING FOR THE STUDY AND FOR THE POLICY ARE ALIGNED WITH HUD'S GOALS. SO AIR POLLUTION IS A BIT MORE COMPLEX THAN NOISE POLLUTION. AIR POLLUTION IS A REGIONAL ISSUE. IT HAS VARIOUS POLLUTANTS AND VARIOUS POLLUTANT SOURCES. THERE'S MULTIPLE VARIABLES THAT AFFECT EXPOSURE. WIND DIRECTION, SEASON, TIME OF DAY, TOPOGRAPHY, BUILDINGS, AND IN REGARDS TO VEHICLES, THE TYPES OF VEHICLES IN THE AREA. EACH POLLUTANT DISPERSES DIFFERENTLY AS WELL SO O STANDARD FOR ONE -- YOU HAVE TO ESTABLISH STANDARDS FOR A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT POLLUTANTS IN REGARDS TO DISPERSION. STUDIES FIND THAT MOST TRAFFIC-RELATED AIR POLLUTION DISPERSES WITHIN 350 TO 500 FEET OF THE ROADWAY BUT THE STUDIES VARY IN THOSE NUMBERS. AND THERE IS NO COMMONLY-AGREED UPON STANDARD THAT JUST -- IN REGARDS TO DISTANCE FROM THE HIGHWAYS. THERE ARE STANDARDS OUT THERE FOR VARIOUS POLLUTANTS BUT IN REGARDS TO LOCATING CLOSE TO POLLUTANT SOURCES, NO COMMON-AGREED UPON STANDARDS AND NO FERAL STANDARDS. SO NOISE AND AIR POLLUTION MITIGATION CAN BE ACCOMPLISHED WITH SOME OVERLAPPING METHODS. SO INCREASING DISTANCE FROM THE POLLUTANT SOURCE OR THE ROADWAYS, IN OUR CASE, DOES HELP MITIGATE FOR NOISE AND AIR QUALITY. USING STRUCTURES TO FUNCTION AS A BARRIER CAN HELP AS WELL. ADJUSTING THE SITE DESIGN TO ORIENT THE OPEN SPACE AWAY FROM THE EXPRESSWAY, MAYBE SHIELDED BY THE BUILDINGS. ENHANCING BUILDING DESIGN CAN HELP WITH NOISE AND AIR POLLION. BUT THERE ARE A FEW MITIGATION RECOMMENDATIONS THAT CAN REALLY FOCUS ON AIR QUALITY. ENHANCING THE INDOOR AIR QUALITY FILTRATION SYSTEMS AND RELOCATING THE BUILDING AIR INTAKES SO THEY'RE FURTHER AWAY FROM THE EXPRESSWAY AS THEY CAN BE. THIS IS JUST A SAMPLE. THERE MAY BE OTHER MITIGATION METHODS THAT THE EXPERTS MAY COME UP WITH OR RECOMMEND. BUT THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT WE'VE SPECIFICALLY DISCUSSED. SO WITH THIS BACKGROUND IN MIND, THE COUIL ADOPTED THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN MAP IN 2019 WITH A GOAL TO HAVE SENSITIVE LAND USES WITHIN THE EXPRESSWAY CORRIDOR ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH AREAS TO HAVE A MAXIMUM OUTDOOR NOISE LEVEL OF LESS THAN 65 DBA LDN. I'LL GIVE YOU SOME MORE INFORMATION ON WHAT LDN MEANS. THERE ARE TWO EHA AREAS. EHA-1 IS THE AREA FURTHEST AWAY FROM THE EXPRESSWAY, SO THE NOISE LEVELS ARE GOING TO BE BETWEEN 65 AND 75 DBA IN THOSE AREAS. AN IN EHA 2 IT WOULD BE GREATER THAN OR EQUAL TO 75 DBA LDN . THERE ARE A VARIETY OF SENSITIVE LAND USES AND THE STANDARDS DIFFER BASED ON WHAT TYPE OF USE IS BEING PROPOSED. FOR RESIDENTIAL AND INSTITUTIONAL DWELLINGS, EHA-1, AN EHA SITE ANALYSIS IS REQUIRED. FOR EHA-2 THOSE USES ARE CONSIDERED INAPPROPRIATE BUT REDEVELOPMENT OF EXISTING SENSITIVE LAND USES MAY BE CONSIDERED WITH AN EHA SITE ANALYSIS. FOR DAY CARES, SCHOOLS, AND PARKS THER ARE SOME SITE DESIGN STANDARDS THAT WERE PART OF THE ASSOCIATED ZONING ORDINANCE UPDATE THAT THOSE USES ARE REQUIRED TO FOLLOW. SO THE EHA SITE ANALYSIS, THIS IS THE DETAIL FOR THE PLAN. BUT IT SHOULD BE PREPARED BY A RECOGNIZED EXPERT. IT SHOULD INCLUDE NOISE LEVEL MEASUREMENTS FOR THE SITE. THOSE ARE USED TO VALIDATE THE MODEL FOR THE SITE, THE NOISE MODEL. IT SHOULD ESTIMATE EXISTING FUTURE AND PROJECTED NOISE AT BOTH GROUND LEVEL AND ALL PROPOSED FLOORS OF THE BUILDINGS. SHOULD RECOMMEND APPROPRIATE MITIGATION OPTIONS AND ESTIMATE THE NOISE LEVELS AFTER THOSE MITIGATION MEASURES HAVE BEEN IMPLEMENTED. SO AT THE SAME TIME CITY COUNCIL ADOPTED A NEW ACTION STATEMENT AS PART OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. REDEVELOPMENT AND REGIONAL DEVELOPMENT CORRIDORS. BASICALLY THIS SAYS TO IMPLEMENT THE POLICY AS TO PROVIDE PROTECTION AND IMPORTANTLY TO UPDATE THE MAP AND GUIDELINES EVERY FIVE YEARS OR AS CHANGES IN EXPRESSWAY CRIDORONDITIONS WARRANT REASSESSMENT. SO SO FAR WE'VE HAD 44 CASES THAT COULD HAVE BEEN SUBJECT TO THIS POLICY. IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT THE MAP WAS NOT IN EFFECT AS PART OF THE INTERIM COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, SO THOSE CASES HAVE BEEN REMOVED FROM THESE NUMBERS. BUT THERE WERE FIVE ZONING CASES THAT WE HAVE SEEN WITH EHA SITE ANALYSIS. ONE OF THOSE IS STILL UNDER CONSIDERATION. AND THEN WE'VE HAD TWO CASES WHERE SENSITIVE LAND USES WERE SPECIFICALLY LOCATED OUTSIDE THE EHA TO AVOID THE NEED FOR AN EHA SITE ANALYSIS. AGAIN, WE HAVE ONE OF THOSE CASES IS UNDER REVIEW RIGHT NOW. AS I MENTIONED, THERE WAS AN ASSOCIATED ZONING ORDINANCE UPDATE. THIS WAS BECAUSE WE REALLY WEREN'T STARTING WITH A COMPLETE BLANK SLATE. WE HAD SOME PROPERTIES THAT ALREADY HAD ZONING IN PLACE TO ALLOW SOME OF THESE USES, SO WE WANTED TO PROVIDE SOME ADDITIONAL PROTECTION, EVEN IF THERE IS NO ZONING CHANGE REQUIRED. THE EHA SITE ANALYSIS WAS ONLY WHEN A ZONING CHANGE IS REQUIRED. SO THESE SITE DESIGN STANDARDS INCLUDE LOCATING THE AIR INTAKE VENTS AWAY FROM THE EXPRESSWAY, PUTTING THE OPEN VENTS AWAY FROM THE EXPRESSWAY, AND ENHANCED LANDSCAPE EDGES AS WELL. AND THEN RECENTLY, JUST IN SUMMER OF LAST YEAR, WORKING WITH HMMH, THE STAFF PRODUCED AN EHA SITE ANALYSIS CHECKLIST TO HELP ASSIST APPLICANTS AND STAFF IN PREPARING AND REVIEWING THE EHA SITE ANALYSIS . THAT IS FAIRLY NEW STILL. ALL RIGHT. SO A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS THAT WE'VE RECEIVED FROM THE COMMISSION ARE CAN WE REQUIRE SITE-SPECIFIC ANALYSIS OF AIR POLLUTION INCLUDING PARTICULATE MATTER READINGS. SO THE STUDY HAS SOME MORE INFORMATION DETAILS ON THAT BUT AS WE MENTIONED, 350 TO 500 FEET IS THE GENERAL RANGE, BUT ON THE MORE CONSERVATIVE SIDE, WE SAY 300 FEET WITHIN THE ROADWAY. I GUESS CONSERVATIVE, DEPENDING ON HOW YOU LOOK AT IT. 300 FEET OF THE ROADWAY HAS A POTENTIAL TO HAVE HIGHER POLLUTANTS. EHA 2 IS AN AVERAGE OF 240 FEET FROM THE HIGHWAY EDGE, SO IT'S NOT EXACTLY 300, OF COURSE, BUT IT'S A CLOSE CONTOUR TO MATCH THAT 300-FOOT DISTANCE. AND THEN MITIGATION METHODS GENERALLY OVERLAP FOR BOTH NOISE AND AIR POLLUTION. THE TWO EXCEPTIONS BEING THE AIR QUALITY FILTRATION AND THE LOCATION OF THE AIR INTAKE VENTS. AND SO THOSE ARE THINGS THAT SHOULD DEFINELYE CONSIDERED IN THE EHA AREAS. BUT DUE TO COMPLEXITY OF AIR POLLUTION WITH ALL THE DIFFERENT POLLUTANTS, ALL THE DIFFERENT DISPERSION RATES, AND THE OVERLAP OF THE MITIGATION MYST, THE EHA FOCUSED ON SITE ANALYSIS. THOSE READINGS ARE TO CALIBRATE THE NOISE MODEL AND MAKE SURE THAT IT IS AS EXPECTED FOR THE SITE, BASED& TAN.HE READINGS THAT ARE BEING SO IF THE COMMISSION DESIRES TO HAVE THE EHA SIDE ANALYSIS CONSIDER SIDE-SPECIFIC AIR QUALITY READINGS, WE WOULD NEED TO UPDATE THE MAP AND USE A CONSULTANT TO HELP US CREATE THOSE STANDARDS. WE WOULD WANT TO WORK WITH THE COMMISSION TO HELP FIGURE OUT WHAT MAKES SENSE FOR DEVELOPMENT APPLICATIONS AS THEY COME IN. THAT COULD INCREASE COST AND COMPLEXITY OF THOSE APPLICATIONS AND WE MAY SEE THAT IT REDUCES THE NUMBER OF SENSITIVE LAND USES LOCATED WITH THIS IT WOULD REQUIRE ADDITIONAL STAFF TRAINING OR RESOURCES TO REVIEW THOSE REPORTS AS WE ADD COMPLEXITY TO THEM AND THINGS THAT THE PLANNERS ARE NOT TYPICALLY EXPERTS ON LIKE AIR POLLUTION. ANOTHER QUESTION WAS CAN WE REQUIRE DIFFERENT MITIGATION AND STOP ENCOURAGING PARKING GARAGES ALONG THE EXPRESSWAYS AS BUFFERS. THE SHORT ANSWER IS, YES, WE COULD. BUT, AGAIN, WE WOULD NEED TO UPDATE THE MAP. SOUND BARRIERS CAN BE VERY EFFECTIVE MITIGATION FOR BOTH NOISE AND AIR POLLUTION BUT THOSE BARRIERS ARE TYPICALLY NOISE WALLS, EARTHEN BERMS OR WE GENERALLY CONSIDER NOISE WALLS AND EARTHEN BERMS -- TO BE EFFECTIVE THEY NEED TO BE QUITE LARGE AND THEREFORE MIGHT BE UNSIGHTLY OR IMPRACTICAL TO BUILD IN PLANO. SO OTHER BUILDINGS BECOME A MORE PRACTICAL OPTION. WE CAN DISCOURAGE PARKING GARAGES AS BUFFERS BUT THAT WILL CREATE ANOTHER LIMITATION ON THE LAND USES THAT CAN BE USED AT THE SITE. SO WHAT STANDARDS ARE APPROPRIATE FOR AIR QUALITY FILTRATION. THAT'S MINIMUM EFFICIENCY REPORTING VALUES. SO THE MAP DOES NOT REQUIRE A MINIMUM MERV RATING FOR FILTRATION SYSTEMS. WE DO HAVE A MITIGATION OPTION EXAMPLE TO PROVIDE INDOOR AIR QUALITY FILTRATION SYSTEMS THAT REDUCE AT LEAST 90% OF PARTICULATE MATTER. ACCORDING TO THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY, 90% EFFICIENCY BEGINS TO OCCUR AROUND MERV RATING OF 12. ALL PARTICLE RATINGS MEET THAT. THE RECENTLY PUBLISHED CHECKLIST NOTES THAT A MINIMUM RATING OF 12 IS APPROPRIATE . BUT BECAUSE THE MAP DOES NOT REQUIRE A SPECIFIC MERV RATING, STAFF RELIES ON THE EHA ANALYSIS FOR EACH CASE. SO ANOTHER QUESTION WAS DOES THE WHITE NOISE OF HIGHWAYS ACTUALLY HELP TO DEADEN THE SOUND. AND THERE'S SOME INFORMATION AGAIN IN THE REPORT ABOUT THAT. BUT THIS IS WHERE THE DAY-NIGHT AVERAGE SOUND LEVEL OR LDN COMES INTO PLAY. SO ROAD NOISE AT NIGHT IS OFTEN MORE INTERMITTENT THAN DAYTIME NOISE SO THE DISRUPTION FROM ROADS CAN BE MORE OBVIOUS THAN DURING THE DAY. AND SO THE LDN MEASUREMENT IS USED BECAUSE IT PROVIDES A 10-DECIBEL PENALTY TO NIGHTTIME NOISE BETWEEN 10:00 P.M. AND 7:00 A.M. WHAT ARE OTHER CITIES DOING? AS WE NOTED, PLANO'S POLICIES DATE BACK TO 1997. ALLEN FRISCO McKINNEY AND THE COLONY BEGAN RESTRICTING DEVELOPMENT WITHIN 1200 FEET OF THE CENTERLINE OF STATE HIGHWAY 121. AT THIS TIME WE ARE NOT AWARE OF WHAT STANDARDS THEY HAVE TO CONTINUE THOSE POLICIES. WE BELIEVE FRISCO MAY HAVE SOMETHING BUT WE NEED TO DO SOME MORE RESEARCH TO STAY DEFINITIVELY WHETHER THOSE ARE STILL IN PLACE . FOR PLANO, THE STUDY WAS A CLARIY AREAS A REDUCTION OF THAT 1200-FOOT STANDARD. THERE ARE SOME EXAMPLES OF OTHER COMMUNITIES OUTSIDE TEXAS ON PAGES 36-38 OF THE STUDY. AN UPDATE TO THE MAP WOULD INCLUDE MORE COMPREHENSIVE EXAMPLES AND IN-DEPTH RESEARCH AND ANY CHANGES THAT ANY NEW POLICIES THAT OTHER COMMUNITIES HAVE ENACTED IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS. SO FOR DIRECTION FROM Y'ALL TONIGHT, AN UPDATE TO THE MAP IS TIMELY. IT'S BEEN ALMOST FIVE YEARS ESPECIALLY WHEN WE CONSIDER IT TOOK OVER A YEAR TO GET GOING AND GET -- HAVE THE STUDY ACTUALLY PRODUCED. SO THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN MAP CALLS FOR UPDATING IT EVERY FIVE YEARS. WE WILL NEED A CONSULTANT EXPERIENCED IN THE FIELD OF AIR AND NOISE POLLUTION. IF THE COMMISSION DIRECTS, WE CAN ADD THIS TO YOUR WORK PROGRAM AND WE CAN BEGIN STEPS TO START A FUNDING REQUEST FOR AN UPDATE THROUGH THE BUDGET PROCESS. IF THE COMMISSION DESIRES THAT THE CONSULTANT CONSIDER SITE-SPECIFIC AIR QUALITY ANALYSIS IN T UPDATE, THAT'S HELPFUL TO KNOW SO THAT WE CAN PRODUCE THE RIGHT DOCUMENTS AS WE GO OUT TO FIND THAT CONSULTANT. AND SO WITH THAT OUR RECOMMENDATION IS JUST FOR THE COMMISSION TO PROVIDE ANY DIRECTION PERTAINING TO THE MAP AND GUIDELINES. I'M HERE FOR ANY QUESTIONS. >> Chair Downs: THANK YOU, CHRISTINA. THAT WAS VERY THOROUGH. I WAS AROUND FOR A BIG CHUNK OF THAT SO I REMEMBER ALL OF THOSE HEARINGS BEFORE PLANNING I SERVED ON P&Z AND COUNCILP. WHEN WE WERE MAKING DECISIONS BASED ON A 1200-FOOT BUFFER AND IT WAS CONSTANTLY BEING OVERWRITTEN. TO MR. BROUNOFF'S POINT, IF YOU IGNORE A POLICY LONG ENOUGH, PRETTY SOON IT'S NO LONGER A POLICY, AND THAT IS WHAT WAS HAPPENING. IT MADE SENSE AT THE TIME TO TAKE A LOOK AT IT FROM AN ENVIRONMENTAL STANDPOINT. SO I THINK WHAT WE'VE DONE SO FAR HAS BEEN AN EXCELLENT JOB OF TRYING TO MANAGE KIND OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES THAT COME WITH BEING ALONGSIDE A CORRIDOR. I THINK IT'S INTERESTING THAT WE'RE STARTING NOW TO ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT ENVIRONMENTAL STUFF, ABOUT FIVE YEARS ALMOST AFTER WE PASSED THE INITIAL ONE. IT'S INTERESTING THAT WE SEEM TO BE FOCUSED NOW ON THE PARTICULATES. I REMEMBER A CASE THAT CAME BEFORE US UP ON 121 -- AND THIS IS WHY I WAS THINKING THAT WE ALREADY HAD SOME KIND OF GUIDELINE WHEN IT CAME TO PARTICULATES IS BECAUSE THIS NIEDRIMARILY BECAUSE THERE WAS WAS ACROSS 121, SEVERAL HUNDRED FEET AWAY THERE WAS A CEMENT PLANT. BUT THERE WERE MEASUREMENTS TAKEN OF THE AMOUNT OF CEMENT DUST IN THE AREA. THE PARTICULATE COUNT WAS SO HIGH THEY SAID WE KNOW THERE'S A BUFFER BUT BECAUSE OF THIS COUNT WE'RE GOING TO SAY THAT WE SHOULDN'T APPROVE THIS PROJECT. SO THAT'S WHY I WAS VERY MUCH IN FAVOR OF SOME KIND OF PARTICULATE MEASUREMENT. SO I THINK THAT IT IS WORTHWHILE FOR THE COMMISSION AND OBVIOUSLY I WANT INPUT FROM THE REST OF THE COMMISSIONERS, TO ASK STAFF TO GO AHEAD AND START THE PROCESS FOR, YOU KNOW, A REVIEW OF THE MAP TO THE EXTENT WHETHER WE SHOULD CONSIDER THE PARTICULATES AS A MAJOR FACTOR. I DO HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT THE ABILITY TO ADEQUATELY MEASURE IT. BECAUSE WITH NOISE YOU HAVE A DAYTIME AND A NIGHTTIME, RIGHT? THERE'S CHANGES, OBVIOUSLY OVER TIME AS THE AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC ON A HIGHWAY INCREASES, WHICH HAS HAPPENED TH GEORGE BUSH. SO OBVIOUSLY THERE'S A LOT MORE TRAFFIC THERE. 75 HAS BEEN A PARKING LOT FOR A LONG TIME. IT IS WHAT IT IS BUT, ANYWAY, TRAFFIC PATTERNS CHANGE. SO NOISE HAS MAYBE CHANGED A LITTLE BIT BUT PROBABLY NOT AS MUCH AS WE PROBABLY MIGHT EXPECT. ON THE PARTICULATE SIDE, THOUGH, HOW CAN YOU TAKE INTO ACCOUNT ALL THE VARIABLES, WHAT KIND OF PARTICULATE IT IS. DID IT RAIN YESTERDAY OR NOT? IS THE RAIN BLOWING OUT OF THE SOUTH OR NORTH AND HOW FAST. I THINK IT WOULD BE VERY DIFFICULT TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT DEALS CLOSELY OR SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE EASY TO USE AS A GUIDE, OTHER THAN SOME KIND OF DISTANCE SEPARATOR THAT'S BEEN TALKED ABOUT ALREADY FOR OUTDOOR. I DO THINK IT'S WORTHWHILE CONSIDERING WHAT ARE WE REQUIRING FOR INDOOR. NOW, WE'RE SAYING A MERV12 IS WHAT'S RECOMMENDED. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S A REQUIREMENT OR RECOMMENDATION OR HOW THAT'S WORDED. I WOULD HAVE TO LOOK AT OUR STANDARDS, I GUESS. YOU MENTIONED 16 WAS LIKE GUARANTEED 90% OF ALL PARTICULATES. WHAT DOES A HOSPITAL REQUIRE? MERV20? I DON'T KNOW. I THINK ALL WE CAN DO REALLY, IF A DEVELOPMENT IS COMING FORWARD AND THEY'RE STICKING THEIR GREEN SPACE RIGHT NEXT TO THE FREEWAY, I'M GOING TO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT TO THE EXTENT THEY HAVE TRIED TO SEPARATE IT FROM THE FREEWAY. OKAY. I'M GOING TO GIVE THEM SOME CREDIT FOR THAT BUT I WOULD BE MORE INTERESTED IN WHAT THEY'RE DOING TO PROMOTE INDOOR AIR QUALITY. IF WE HAD MORE GUIDELINES FOR THAT, I THINK THAT WOULD BE MORE IMPACTFUL TO ME THAN TRYING TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO SET A SYSTEM OF STANDARDS FOR OUTDOOR AIR QUALITY BASED ON THE TYPE OF POLLUTANT AND EVERYTHING ELSE. I JUST DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANY WAY WE CAN TRULY CAPTURE THAT MEASUREMENT AND KNOW THAT IT WILL REMAIN EVEN REMOTELY THE SAME FROM ONE DAY TO THE NEXT. THOSE ARE MY THOUGHTS. I DO THINK WE SHOULD START THE PROCESS HOFF UPDATING THE MAP OVER THE NEXT YEAR. IT SHOULD BE A WORK PROGRAM. IT WAS IMPORTANT ENOUGH THAT WE BROUGHT IT FORWARD SO I WOULD AGREE WITH ADDING THAT TO OUR WORK PROGRAM. ANYONE ELSE LIKE TO MAKE A COMMENT? MR. CARY. >> Cary: MY FIRST COMMENT, I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING THE CHAIRMAN SAID. I THINK IT'S THE RIGHT DIRECTION. I'M IN CONCERT WITH THAT. I HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS MORE THAN COMMENTS. DO WE KNOW -- MAYBE WE DON'T. DO BUILDINGS SERVE AS AN EFFECTIVE BARRIER TO POLLUTAN? UNDERSTAND THE SND BENEFIT BUT I'M JUST CURIOUS WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT THE AIR QUALITY BENEFIT TO BUILDINGS, PARKING GARAGES, THINGS LIKE THAT. DO YOU KNOW? >> IN THE STUDY, THE CONSULTANT NOTED THAT IT WAS A MITIGATION METHOD BUT TO THE EXTENT OF HOW EFFECTIVE IT REALLY IS, I WOULD SAY WE DON'T REALLY KNOW THAT RIGHT OFF. >> Cary: OKAY. IT WAS A CURIOSITY. AND JUST A COUPLE QUICK QUESTIONS. HOW DOES PLANO AIR QUALITY COMPARE TO SURROUNDING COMMUNITIES, IF AT ALL? DO WE KNOW? >> I DON'T KNOW THAT WE KNOW. I THINK THERE ARE -- AS I MENTIONED, IT'S A REGIONAL MEASURE AND THE NORTH CENTRAL TEXAS COUNCIL OF GOVERNMENTS THAT MANAGES AIR QUALITY CONSIDERATIONS FOR THE REGION. THE REGION IS A NONATTAINMENT ZONE FOR THE POLLUTANT OZONE AND SO THERE'S A LOT OF EFFORTS TO IMPROVE AIR QUALITY DUE TO THAT, THE EPA REGULATIONS FOR OZONE. IN GENERAL YOU MIGHT FIND THAT IT IS FAIRLY SIMILAR BUT WHETHER IT IS FOR SURE, WE PROBABLY NEED SOMEONE MORE KNOWLEDGEABLE. >> Cary: THE REASON I ASK THAT IS BECAUSE IT DOVETAILS INTO WHAT THE CHAIRMAN WAS SAYING. I THINK SOME OF THESE THINGS ARE HARD TO CHASE. I WONDER IF THE OVERALL AIR QUALITY IS FAIRLY SIMILAR ACROSS THE CITIES. MY FINAL QUESTION IS THIS: WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AIR QUALITY AND AS WE LOOK AT THIS MAP WE'RE TALKING A LOT ABOUT AIR QUALITY AND WHAT WE SHOULD AND SHOULDN'T PERMIT TO BE BUILT AROUND THESE EXPRESSWAY CORRIDORS DUE TO NOISE AND ESPECIALLY POLLUTANTS. I WONDER AS OUR OTHER STREETS GET INCREASINGLY BUSY, HOW IS THE CONSIDERATION THERE AND WHAT CONSIDERATION SHOULD BE MADE THERE? FOR INSTANCE, PRESTON ROAD OR PARK? A LOT OF THESE STREETS ARE VERY, VERY BUSY WITH IDLING CARS, CARS SITTING AT STOPLIGHTS. I JUST WONDER AS WE LOOK AT THIS, BEYOND THE EXPRESSWAY CORRIDORS -- YOU KNOW, MY SOLUTION HERE MAY BE THE DOG THAT CATCHES THE BUS. NOW WHAT DO WE DO WITH THIS? SHOULD WE CONSIDER OTHER PLACES WHERE IF WE'RE GOING TO BE FOCUSED, ESPECIALLY AROUND POLLUTANTS, WHERE IT'S LIKELY THAT SOME OF THESE OTHER STREETS ARE FAIRLY POLLUTED COMPARED TO MAYBE THE EXPRESSWAYS. I DON'T KNOW. I GUESS MY QUESTION IS HAVE WE LOOKED AT THAT AT ALL AND I GUESS MAYBE SHOULD WE? >> Chair Downs: ADD THAT TO THE LIST OF ITEMS THAT WE MIGHT CONSIDER HAVING THE CONSULTANT EVALUATE IS PRESTON AND PARK OR PLACES WHERE WE HAVE A LOT OF TRAFFIC. AGAIN, NOT SURE HOW MUCH WE CAN DO. USUALLY THE NEIGHBORHOODS ARE SET WELL BACK FROM THAT BUT IT MIGHT BE INTERESTING TO KNOW, IF FOR NO OTHER REASON THAN A BASELINE FOR FUTURE REFERENCE. >> Cary: INCREASINGLY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ADDING MORE RESIDENTS IN SOME OF THESE AREAS WHERE TODAY MAYBE THINGS ARE SET BACK. THAT'S THE REASON FOR MY QUESTION. >> Chair Downs: EXCELLENT. >> Brounoff: I TURNED ON THE MICROPHONE. >> Chair Downs: YES, YOU DID. >> Brounoff: I ALSO AGREE THAT WE SHOULD GO AHEAD AND MOVE TOWARD UPDATING THE ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH MAP, BUT I ALSO THINK IT SHOULD INCLUDE CONSIDERATION OF AIR QUALITY FACTORS AND SPECIFICALLY WHEN AND AT WHAT LEVELS MITIGATION MIGHT BE REQUIRED AND WHAT WOULD CONSTITUTE SATISFACTORY MITIGATION AS WE ARE NOW CONSIDERING NOISE ISSUES. THE EHA-1 AND EHA-2 ZONES ARE DEFINED EXCLUSIVELY IN TERMS OF NOISE, NOT PARTICULATES AND THEY TALK ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT HOUSING MAY BE APPROPRIATE OR IS APPROPRIATE IN EITHER OF THESE AREAS IF SATISFACTORY MITIGATION IS ACHIEVED. THERE IS A STANDARD FOR DETERMINING SATISFACTORY MITIGATION. IT'S STATED IN TERMS OF DECIBELS. WE HAVE NO SUCH STANDARD IN EVALUATING AIR POLLUTION. I THINK IT'S CRITICAL THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE SOMETHING TO GO ON IN THE WAY OF A STANDARD. FIRST OF ALL, IT'S LEGAL. IF WE TURN DN SOMEBODY BECAUSE WE THINK THE PARTICULATE LEVEL IS TOO HIGH AND WE DON'T HAVE A STANDARD TO MEASURE WHAT IS A TRIGGERING LEVEL OF%S, WE MAY NOT BE ABLE TO UPHOLD OUR DECISION IN THE EVENT OF A LAWSUIT . I SPENT 15 YEARS AS AN ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE FOR THE SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION DECIDING DISABILITY CLAIMS. WE HAD A LARGE NUMBER OF CLAIMANTS WHO HAD PULMONARY DISORDERS. ASTHMA, COPD AND OTHER DISORDERS. OUR CONTEXT WAS DECIDING WHETHER THE CLAIM WOULD WORK. IN THE CASE OF SOMEONE WITH PULMONARY DISORDER, WE WERE REPORTS MEASURING THEIR BREATHING FUNCTIONING. WE HAD TO CONSIDER WHETHER THERE WERE JOBS THAT THEY COULD PERFORM THAT DID NOT INVOLVE EXPOSURE TO PULMONARY IRRITANTS SUCH AS DUST AND SMOKE. THE REASON BEING THAT EXPOSURE TO THOSE KINDS OF PULMONARY IRRITANTS CAN EXACERBATE ASTHMA COPD EMPHYSEMA. SO IF WE GO ON A BUILDING SPREE AND APPROVE RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES WITHIN, YOU KNOW, A CERTAIN PROXIMITY TO A HIGHWAY, WE MAY BE EXPROPOSING THE RESIDENTS OF THOSE PROJECTS TO SIGNIFICANT HEALTH ISSUES. THIS IS NOT A NEW CONSIDERATION FOR US. IT'S ALREADY BEEN POINTED OUT IN OUR MATERIALS THAT THERE IS A HEALTH ISSUE WITH REGARD TO NOISE, NAMELY DISTURBING SLEEP PATTERNS. I'M SAYING THERE'S ALSO A HEALTHSSUE WITH REGARD TO PARTICULATES THAT COULD BE MADE VERY SERIOUS. I RECALL SOME DECADES AGO THERE WAS A FEDERAL DISTRICT JUDGE IN DALLAS WHO DIED FROM AN ASTHMA ATTACK SUFFERED ON AN AIRPLANE IN FLIGHT, SO I DON'T THINK THIS IS SOMETHING WE CAN CAVALIERLY SLOUGH OFF. WE HAVE TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT MITIGATION SHOULD BE REQUIRED FROM A POLLUTION STANDPOINT AND WHAT WOULD CONSTITUTE A SATISFACTORY LEVEL OF MITIGATION. >> Chair Downs: DOES IT MAKE SENSE TO YOU THAT THE -- FROM A MITIGATION STANDPOINT, THERE'S TWO DIFFERENT THINGS IN PLAY. ONE IS INTERIOR, ONE IS EXTERIOR. INTERIOR IS MUCH EASIER TO MITIGATE THAN EXTERIOR. ON A RECENT CASE, I THINK IT WAS YOU WHO BROUGHT UP THE POINT YES, THERE'S A DOG PARK BUT NO ONE IS GOING TO SPEND HOURS THERE. THE SAME KIND OF APPROACH WE WOULD TAKE WITH A CONSULTANT. >> Brounoff: AND WE WOULD ALSO CONSIDER WHAT MIGHT BE A COST-EFFECTIVE AND PRACTICAL TECHNIQUES. >> Chair Downs: MR. BRONSKY. MR. BRONSKY. >> Bronsky: THANK YOU, CHRISTINA FOR YOUR PRESENTATION. I FIND MYSELF IN A WEIRD POSITION, NOT THAT I HAVE QUESTIONS BUT IN A WEIRD POSITION. I'M GOING TO BE -- I'VE GOT A COUPLE OF -- >> Chair Downs: SPIT IT OUT. >> Bronsky: I HAVE QUESTIONS BUT I FEEL LIKE I SHOULD BE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE QUESTIONS. BUT SO LET'S BACK UP FIRST. I HAD A CHANCE TO READ THE HMMH STUDY THAT WE'VE CITED IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND THAT YOU'VE TALKED ABOUT. CAN YOU GO BACK TO SLIDE 23? NO NO. SHE'S GOT SLIDE 23. YEAH. RIGHT THERE. WHEN WE'RE JUDGING THE SOUND POLLUTION, WE'RE JUDGING IT FROM THE OUTSIDE, CORRECT? >> RIGHT. THE GOAL IN THE MODELS ARE BASED ON OUTDOOR NOISE. >> Bronsky: BUT WE'RE CONCERNED WITH THE INDOOR, WITH WHAT PEOPLE ARE ABLE TO SLEEP WITH, IN YOUR PRESENTATION. IN THE HMMH STUDY, ON PAGE 24 SECTION 4.3.3 TITLED NOISE AND A. IT SAYS A VARIETY OF METHODS MAY BE USED TO MITIGATE THE EFFECT OF NOISE POLLUTION. UNDER THAT IT INCLUDES ENHANCE BUILDING DESIGNS, IMPROVE WINDOWS DOORS WALL MATERIALS, AND/OR DESIGNS TO ACHIEVE INTERIOR NOISE LEVEL GOALS. HOW CAN SOMEONE USE THAT WHEN WE'RE JUDGING THEM BASED ON THE EXTERIOR NOISE? >> Chair Dow: WE HAV AN INTERIOR. >> [OFF MIC] >> Chair Downs: YES. >> WE ACTUALLY DO NOT -- PART OF THE POLICY DOES NOT DIRECTLY INCLUDE THE INTERIOR GOAL THAT HUD HAS OF 45. >> CORRECT. >> SO THAT HAS CAUSED SOME CONFUSION OVER THE YEARS AND MAYBE SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE GOOD TO CRUZ AS PART OF OUR UPDATE. >> Chair Downs: BUT WE'VE HAD THAT DISCUSSION MULTIPLE TIMES WITH PROJECTS. AND MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE THE DEVELOPER IS BRINGING UP THEIR MITIGATION IS MEETING THE HUD STANDARDS OF 45. OUR ORDINANCE DOES NOT SPECIFICALLY SPELL THAT OUT AT 45. IT JUST SAYS MEET HUD STANDARDS CORRECT? >> IT SAYS TO MEET THE 65. WE DON'T -- >> Chair Downs: ON THE EXTERIOR. >> RIGHT. THERE'S NO MENTION OF INTERIOR. >> Bronsky: ALTHOUGH THE HMMH STUDY DOES REFERENCE THE CITY OF VANCOUVER AS WELL AS THE TOWN OF GILBERT IN ARIZONA THAT DO, IN FACT, USE THOSE NUMBERS IN ADDRESSING INTERIOR NOISE LEVELS, CORRECT? >> UH-HUH. THAT'S CORRECT. >> Bnsky YEAH, AS IN SECTION 7.2.2 HIGHWAY NOISE OVERLAY DISTRICTS. AND THEN THEY GO THROUGH THE INTERIOR NOISE STANDARDS. AND SO MY QUESTION IS HOW IS A DEVELOPER TO USE THE ENHANCED DESIGNS SUCH AS WINDOWS, DOORS, AND WALLS WHEN WE'RE NOT GOING TO LET THEM USE THEM TO MITIGATE THE NOISE? >> WELL, ONE POINT ON THE INTERIOR AND EXTERIOR DIFFERENCE. THE HMMH -- I APOLOGIZE, I DON'T KNOW FOR SURE THAT IS HOW IS WRITTEN, IF IT'S WRITTEN IN THE REPORT. BUT THEY TOLD US AS THEY WERE DOING THIS STUDY THAT STANDARD BUILDING MATERIALS WILL TYPICALLY DECREASE THE NOISE LEVELS ABOUT 20 DECIBELS. SO THAT 65, THAT'S OUTDOOR STANDARD WILL BECOME A 45 INDOOR. BUT, AGAIN, THE CITY DID NOT ADOPT THAT POLICY. EXPLICITLY. THAT MAY BE SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD BE DOING IN THE UPDATE. BUT THE IMPROVED -- BASICALLY ALL OF THE MITIGATION METHODS THAT WE LIST AS EXAMPLES ARE EXAMPLES FOR CONSIDERATION TO HELP KIND OF GUIDE THE APPLICANT WHO DOESN'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING YET AS THEY GET INTO THIS. THIS IS NEW AND DIFFERENT FOR THEM. TO GIVE THEM SOME EXPECTATION OF WHAT THEY MIGHT BE LOOKING AT. BUT WHEN THEY GO TO DO THE EHA SITE ANALYSIS, THAT EXPERT THAT THEY HIRE SHOULD PROVIDE RECOMMENDED MITIGATION. IT WON'T NECESSARILY HELP THEM ACHIEVE THAT 65 GOAL WITH THE BUILDING MATERIALS, BUT IT WILL HELP MITIGATE THE FACT THAT THEY AREN'T MEETING THAT GOAL. THEN WE JUST NEED THOSE MITIGATION METHODS TO MAKE IT INTO THE DEVELOPMENT PROPOSAL THAT'S PART OF THE PROJECT TO HELP MEET THE EXPERT'S RECOMMENDED MITIGATION MEASURES. >> Bronsky: IF THEY WERE ABLE TO PROVE THAT THEY WERE ABLE TO MITIGATE THE INTERIOR LEVELS BELOW 65 OR 45, WOULD THAT THEN STILL BLOCK THEM BECAUSE OF THE EXTERIOR NOISE? WOULD THE STAFF STILL HAVE A RECOMMENDATION SAYING THAT IT SHOULD NOT BE APPROVED? >> I THINK IT WOULD DEPEND ON A NUMBER OF OTHER THINGS AS WELL. BUT IN GENERAL, IF THEIR MITIGATION RECOMMENDATIONS ARE -- MAKE SENSE, YOU KNOW, THAT IS ONE CONSIDERATION TOO AS WE READ THROUGH THE REPORT AND TRY TO LOOK FOR -- >> Chair Downs: LET'S DO SOMETHING HERE. CAN YOU MOVE FORWARD A COUPLE OF SLIDES? I THINK IT'S TWO. KEEP GOING ONE MORE. I'M LOOKING FOR ONE. MAYBE IT'S THE DAY AND NIGHT SLIDE. >> Bronsky: IT WAS EARLIER. >> Chair Downs: THERE WAS A -- >> Bronsky: THAT ONE? >> Chair Downs: NO. IT DOESN'T MATTER. THERE'S ANOTHER SLIDE ON THERE WHERE IT TALKED ABOUT -- AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO REMEMBER THAT THE EHA ANALYSIS THAT IS REQUIRED BY THE DEVELOPER ONLY TAKES PLACE IF THEY FALL WITHIN THE ZONE. >> CORRECT. >> Chair Downs: SO WE'RE NOT GOINGO SEE AOT OF THESE UNLESS THEY HAPPEN TO BE IN THE ZONE. NOW, IF AN EHA ANALYSIS IS DONE, WHAT ARE WE GOING TO GET? WE'RE GOING TO GET A REPORT FROM A CONSULTANT WHOSE EXPERTISE IS IN THIS AND THEY'RE GOING TO KNOW THAT INTERIOR LEVELS HAVE TO BE AT 45 OR LESS. IT'S NOT THAT OUR -- AND THE REASON I KEEP THINKING I'VE HEARD THIS IN MY HEAD IS BECAUSE A DEVELOPER COMES FORWARD WHO HAS HAD AN EHA ANALYSIS DONE AND THEY'VE BEEN THE ONES THAT HAVE SAID OUR MITIGATION EFFORTS MEET THE 65/75XTERIOR AND 45 INTERIOR. THAT'S WHY I'M ASSUMING IT WAS IN OUR ORDINANCE BUT IT'S ONLY BECAUSE IT WAS IN THE ANALYSIS. I THINK WHAT WOULD HELP BENEFIT STAFF AND EVERYTHING ELSE IS RATHER THAN -- WE'RE GOING TO HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY, BECAUSE THIS IS PART OF OUR WORK PROGRAM, TO HAVE THIS TYPE OF DISCUSSION LATER. REALLY TONIGHT WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS JUST GIVE STAFF DIRECTION TO MOVE FORWARD. LET'S, YOU KNOW, LET'S FIND A CONSULTANT AND AS PART OF OUR WORK PROGRAM WE CAN DIG INTO THIS. IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHW STUDY, BECAUSE THEN WE'LL HAVE A CHANCE TO UPDATE OUR ORDINANCE BASED ON THAT AND THE MAPS. AND THAT WOULD BE WHERE WE MIGHT WANT TO PUT IN AN INTERIOR NOISE OR AN INTERIOR PARTICULATE MATTER OR SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES. IS THAT SUFFICIENT? >> Bronsky: I COMPLETELY AGREE. THE QUESTIONS YOU ASKED ABOUT THE HOSPITAL I CAN PROVIDE YOU THE INFORMATION FROM THE EPA'S WEBSITE. >> Chair Downs: OF COURSE YOU CAN. [LAUGHTER] >> Bronsky: SO, LIKE I SAID, I FIND MYSELF IN AN AWKWARD POSITION BECAUSE I REALLY DO LIKE THE IDEA OF THE DISTANCE AND PROTECTING THE CITIZENS. BUTD TO -- SOME OF THIS NEEDS TO MAKE A LITTLE MORE SENSE THAN I FEEL LIKE WE'VE PROVIDED. AND I THINK THERE CAN BE A LITTLE BETTER CLARITY PROVIDED TO OUR DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY ON HOW THEY'RE ABLE TO GO ABOUT MITIGATING CERTAIN THINGS AND WHEN MITIGATION CAN BE SUCCESSFUL. SO I DO AGREE WITH YOU. I LOOK FORWARD TO ADDRESSING MORE IN THE FUTURE AND WORKING DIRECTLY WITH CHRISTINA AS WELL AS MR. ROCKERBY AND OTHERS ON CITY STAFF. >> Chair Downs: I THINK WHERE YOU'RE HEADED IS RIGHT. THE ONLY AREA THAT I WOULD HAVE A LITTLE CONCERN IS IT REALLY SHOULDN'T BE OUR JOB TO DESIGN THE MITIGATION OR RESEARCH WHAT'S AVAILABLE. IT WOULD BE TO EVALUATE WHAT'S BROUGHT TO US BY THE DEVELOPERS IN TERMS OF EFFECTIVENESS. SO I THINK IT'S HELPFUL FOR US TO UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF MITIGATION, BUT I'M CAUTIOUS TO SAY THAT WE SHOULD CODIFY ANYTHING, ONLYECAUSE THAT CHANGES FREQUENTLY. SO OKAY. MR. LISLE. I'M GLAD TO SEE YOUR NAME BACK UP THERE. YOU BAILED AT ONE POINT. WE'LL GO TO MR. OLLEY. HE CUT IN FRONT OF YOU. IT WAS STRATEGIC. MR. OLLEY. >> Olley: I THINK TO THAT POINT, GIVEN SOME KIND OF MARKET TO AIM FOR, AS THEY BRING FORTH VARIOUS MITIGATION AND WITH STAFF'S HELP WE CAN JUDGE. EVERYBODY HAS SAID VERY WELL STATED THOUGHTS. TH ONLY THING I WOULD SUGGEST ON THE AIR POLLUTION MATTER -- YOU'RE RIGHT. IT'S DIFFICULT TO SET PARTICULATE THRESHOLDS FOR EACH PARTICULAR POLLUTANT. SMOKE IS ANOTHER VERSUS DUST IS ANOTHER. YOU BASICALLY PUT FORWARD A BARRIER THAT IS UNATTAINABLE. ONE THING I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE CONSULTANT DO IS PERHAPS IF THERE IS SOME KIND OF METHODOLOGY THAT ESSENTIALLY JUST SETS A THRESHOLDS, ALMOST LIKE FROM AN INSIDE/OUTSIDE. ALL YOUR PARTICULATES ARE 1,000 PPM ON THE OUTSIDE. >> Chair Downs: TOTAL PARTICULATES. >> Olley: RIGHT. OUR THRESHOLD IS YOU NEED TO REDUCE THAT BY 90%. >> Chair Downs: FOR THE INTERIOR. >> Olley: FOR THE INTERIOR. IF IT'S 10,000 AND 90% BRINGS IT DOWN TO 1,000, GOOD LUCK TO THE PERSON WHO LIVES THERE. BUT IT SETS SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T FEEL TOO ARBITRARY, CHASING PARTICULAR CHEMICAL COMPOUNDS ALL OVER THE PLACE. YOU'RE RIGHT. IF IT'S A MERV12 OR 13 THAT IS REQUIRED, WHICH IS A LITTLE BIT COSTLY, THAT'S JUST THE PRICE YOU'VE GOT TO PAY -- >> Chair Downs: TO DEVELOP IN THAT SPOT. >> JUST ONE COMMENT ON THAT. OUR EHA SITE ANALYSIS CHECKLIST DOES PROVIDE THAT DOWN TO THE MICRON LEVEL WITH THE MERV 12s, WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. ACCOUNTS FOR THE INTERIOR, THE MICRON PARTICULATE SIZE. >> Olley: RIGHT. [OFF MIC] RIGHT. >> Chair Downs: MR. LISLE. >> Lisle: I'M NOT SUPPOSED TO TOUCH THOSE, AM I? I GUESS I MADE IT TO MY SECOND MEETING BEFORE I LET THE CAT OUT OF THE BAG THAT I'M FOR LESS REGULATION, WHICH IS IMPRESSIVE. WHEN I LISTEN TO ALL OF THIS, I HAVE WATCHED US COMPARE OURSELVES TO OTHER CITIES ON A LOT OF DIFFERENT OCCASIONS, ON A LOT OF DIFFERENT TOPICS. AND I LOOK AT SPECIFIC DEVELOPMENTS IN ALLEN, McKINNEY DALLAS RICHARDSON WHERE THERE'S MULTIFAMILY OUT ALONG HIGHWAYS. KIND OF SWITCHING TOPICS, I KNOW WE'RE LOOKING AT AN UPDATE TO OUR THOROUGHFARE STANDARDS AND ROAD CONSTRUCTIONS TO TRY TO ENCOURAGE MULTIMODAL, I THINK IS WHAT WE CALL IT,EDESTRIAN USAGE OF OUR ROADWAYS. AND SO IT SEEMS ODD TO ME THAT WE'RE GOING TO ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO RIDE THEIR BIKES ON THE ROADWAYS BUT THEN WHEN THEY GET HOME THEY DON'T HAVE A BALCONY TO PUT THEIR BIKE ON BECAUSE SOMEHOW THE AIR THEY'RE GOING TO BREATHE ON THEIR BALCONY IS DANGEROUS BUT THEY JUST RODE 30 MINUTES HOME ON THE ROADWAYS. AND SO FOR ME THE REASON I WANTED TO SPEAK IS -- I DON'T THINK WE'RE GOING TO GO HERE. MAYBE WE DO NEED ANOTHER CONSULTANT. MAYBE WE NEED TO LOOK AT THIS BUT WE MAY END UP SAYING THIS DOES'T MAKE SENSE. WHEN WE TALK ABOUT INDOOR AIR QUALITY, I THINK THAT COMES TYPICALLY FROM YOUR AIR FILTER THAT YOU BUY AT HOME DEPOT AND PUT IN YOUR UNIT THAT SUPPLIES& YOUR APARTMENT OR YOUR HOUSE. SO I DON'T THINK THERE IS A STANDARD THAT YOU CAN DICTATE, BECAUSE THE PERSON THAT CHANGES THAT FILTER, THEY CAN BUY THE DOLLAR FILTER OR THE $20 FILTER. I THINK PETS AND CARPET AND WHETHER OR NOT YOU VACUUM YOUR FLOOR MAKES A BIGGER DIFFERENCE TO YOUR INDOOR A QUALITY THAN SOMEONE DRIVING DOWN THE ROADWAY. WHEN I LOOK AT THIS, I SEE THE TEN-DECIBEL PENALTY FOR NIGHTTIME, BUT WE'RE TRYING -- THAT'S WHEN PEOPLE SLEEP, TYPICALLY. I UNDERSTAND THERE'S PEOPLE THAT SLEEP IN THE DAY. BUT I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE JUSTICE FOR THE PENALTY. IF IT IS WHAT IT IS, AND WE CAN TAKE A READING, WHY ADD A TEN-DECIBEL PENALTY TO IT? I'D LOVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT. THESE ARE SOME OF THE THINGS I WAS THINKING. I WANTED TO LET THE CAT OUT OF THE BAG THAT I'M GOING A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT DIRECTION. >> Chair Downs: YOU KNOW WHAT, YOU WERE APPOINTED TO SIT HERE FOR A REASON, AND THAT'S THAT VOICE ALSO SAYING, ARE WE GOING TOO FAR. THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH HAVING THAT OPINION. AND THAT IS -- I'M QUITE CERTAIN WHEN WE BRING BACK THE CONSULTANT'S REPORT AND WE START SAYING, OKAY, HERE'S THE REPORT AND HERE'S OUR POLICIES OR ORDINANCES, ETC., WHAT CHANGES DO WE WANT TO MAKE, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE SOME LIVELY DISCUSSION. >> LisleI'LL MAKE ONE MORE COMMENT. ONE THE THINGS WE'RE CONSTANTLY HEARING IS THE COST OF HOUSING. AND WHEN YOU HAVE THE SOUND AND THE PARTICULATE CONSULTANT AND YOU DO THAT STUDY, THEN YOU DO ENVIRONMENTAL 1 AND 2, EVERY REQUIREMENT THAT WE ADD TO DEVELOPMENT WE'RE ADDING COST TO THE END USER. SO I WANT TO BE SENSITIVE OF THAT. >> Chair Downs: THAT'S A GREAT POINT. WE'RE CONSTANTLY SAYING WE NEED MORE AFFORDABLE HOUSING. >> Lisle: RIGHT. WE SAY THAT, BUT THEN -- >> Chair Downs: YEAH. OKAY. MR. BRONSKY, LAST COMMENT? >> Bronsky: IT'S NOT THAT I DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOU'VE SAID. IN SOME CASE, WHAT I'VE BEEN ASKING IS FOR US TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE SIMPLY EVEN-HANDED WITH HOW WE'RE APPLYING EVERYTHING, AND THAT IT RATIONALLY MAKES SENSE ACROSS ALL DIFFERENT ORDERS, BOUNDARIES. >> Chair Downs: OKAY. MR. OLLEY. I THOUGHT WE WERE DE. >> Olley: ALONG THOSE POINTS, THIS IS MORE OF, IF PLANO IS SUPPOSED TO BE THE CITY FOR ALL, RIGHT, THEN THE QUALITY OF LIFE, WHETHER YOU'RE IN SINGLE-FAMILY OR MULTIFAMILY, SHOULD NOT CHANGE THAT DRASTICALLY, RIGHT? BUT IF WE IN SOME WAYS LOWER THE COST OR THE THRESHOLD IN SOME WAY, TO UNDULY IMPACT MULTIFAMILIES, THEN WE HAVE SHIFTED THE BALANCE AND PLANO IS NO LONGER THAT CITY. YOU KNOW. >> Cir Downs: OKAY. I THINK I SEE SOMEONE PUSHING HIS BUTTON. SOMEBODY BRING CHRISTINA A STOOL IF WE'RE DO GOING TO DO THIS. >> I JUST WANT TO BE CLEAR -- >> Chair Downs: MICROPHONE. >> I'M ALL FOR EXCELLENCE, BUT ANOTHER THING THAT'S ODD TO ME IS THAT I THINK WHAT I HEARD YOU SAY IS THAT REDEVELOPMENTS THAT ALREADY HAVE A SENSITIVE LAND USE ARE SOMEHOW EXEMPTED, RIGHT? LIKE IF THEY ALREADY HAVE THE LAND USE, THEY COULD REDEVOP CLO. >> IF THEY ALREADY HAVE THEIR ZONING IN PLACE, THEN THEY COULD REDEVELOP, DE- DEPENDING ON HOWY VESTED BECAUSE WE HAVE SITE-SPECIFIC STANDARDS IN PLACE. IF THEY NEED A ZONING CHANGE AND ARE IN EHA2, EXISTING SENSITIVE LAND USE, IF THEY WEREN'T AN EXISTING SENSITIVE LAND USE, WE WOULD SAY THEY'RE INAPPROPRIATE. BUT IF THEY ARE AN EXISTING SENSITIVE LAND USEEDEVOPIN AND REQUESTING A ZONING CHANGE TO ADD DENSITY OR CHANGE IN SOME WAY, THEN WE WOULD REQUIRE AN EHA SITE ANALYSIS AND THEN CONSIDER THEM THE SAME AS WE WOULD ANYTHING ELSE THAT WE'RE GETTING AN EHA SITE ANALYSIS ON. >> Lisle: OKAY. THAT WAS A LOT TO RESPOND TO, SO I'M NOT GOING TO TRY. COMMISSIONER OLLEY, I WOULD SAY, I AM ALL FOR EXCELLENCE. I AM NOT TRYING TO CREATE A SITUATION THAT IS LESS THAN FOR ONE PERSON OR ANOTHER, BUT IT'S JUST ANOTHER OPTION. AND LIVING NEXT TO THE HIGHWAY, I AGREE WITH YOU, IT'S PROBABLY NOT FOR EVERYBODY, BUTHERE'S A WHOLE BUNCH OF OPTIONS IN OUR CITY. >> Chair Downs: OKAY. >> Olley: MAY I? [ LAUGHING ] >> Chair Downs: WHERE'S THE STOOL? KEEP IN MIND THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE PROBABLY TWO OR THREE MEETINGS TO HASH ALL OF THIS OUT AGAIN IN THE FUTURE. >> JUST REAL QUICK, AS I LISTEN TO COMMISSIONER LISLE, I THINK THE POINT I HEAR YOU SAYING IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN MAYBE SOME OTHER PEOPLE. HOW MUCH LEGISLATION DOES OUR CITY, AND HOW MUCH GOVERNMENT SHOULD WE PROVIDE OVER EVERYTHING? AND WHERE DO WE LET OTHER FORCES COME IN IN THE CITY OF THE CITIZENS GET TO HAVE A SAY OVER THIS VERSUS US SAYING THINGS? THAT'S THE BALANCE I HEAR YOU TALKING ABOUT. >> I AGREE. A DEVELOPER HAS TO FIGURE THAT OUT ON THEIR OWN, WHAT QUALITY OF WINDOWS. HE IS THE ONE THAT HAS TO RENT THE APARTMENT. HE WANTS THAT UNIT TO BE LIVABLE. I DON'T THINK JUST BECAUSE WE LOWER OUR STANDARDS IT MEANS THAT WE'RE NECESSARILY GOING TO GET A DIFFERENT PRODUCT OUT THERE. >> RIGHT. >> Chair Downs: I REALLY AM GOING TO TRY TO CUT THIS OFF, BECAUSE WE'RE HAVING THE DISCUSSION THAT WE'RE GOING TO GET SFF JUST COMPLETELY WANT TO CONFUSED ABOUT WHERE WE TOLD THEM TO GO. [ CHUCKLING ] >> WITH RESPECT TO WHAT BOTH OF THESE GENTLEMAN SAY, I DO AGREE WITH THE FREE MARKET MAKING DECISIONS, BUT I DO BELIEVE THERE ARE SOME AREAS IN WHICH GOVERNMENT IS IMPORTANT. AND I DO THINK THAT THE -- PROTECTING THE HEALTH AND HELPING PEOPLE ENSURE THAT THEY HAVE LIVABLE SPACE IN WHICH THEY ARE LIVING NEAR AN EXPRESSWAY CORRIDOR OF SOME SORT -- JUST BECAUSE ITS INEXPENSIVE AND SOMEBODY CAN MOVE THERE DOESN'T MEAN THAT IT'S THE BEST PLACE FOR THAT PERSON TO LIVE, JUST BECAUSE THEY CAN AFFORD THE RENT FOR IT. AND I DON'T WANT TO PUNISH A PLANO CITIZEN WHO CAN'T MAKE ENOUGH MONEY TO LIVE IN FAR WEST PLANO, BUT CAN AFFORD TO LIVE IN AN AREA WHERE, YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY'S WILLING TO PUT POOR WINDOWS IN NEAR HIGH-PARTICULATE MATTER AREAS. THE EHA CORRIDORS ARE IMPORTANT. I DO BELIEVE THAT THEY DO BELONG. I DO BELIEVE THAT HAVING ASUR MES SENSE. I DO BELIEVE THAT IT IS SOMETHING THAT -- THIS IS AN AREA IN WHICH GOVERNMENT SHOULD HAVE SOME PURVIEW, BUT I DO ALSO UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING ABOUT OVERREGULATION AND TOO MUCH GOVERNMENT, BECAUSE I SEE THAT IN SO MANY AREAS, INCLUDING THE EPA AND HOW THEY'RE APPLYING THINGS IN OTHER AREAS, NOT ONLY THAT BUT HUD AND OTHER THINGS. BUT I DO THINK THERE IS A MID-GROUND THAT WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE STRIVE TO KEEP THE CITY SAFE AS WELL. >> I'D LIKE TO SUGGEST A WEEKE FORS T CONTINUE TO HAVE THIS DISCUSSION, BECAUSE I'D LOVE TO COMMENT, BUT IT'S GOING TO TAKE -- [ LAUGHING ] >> Chair Downs: THANK YOU. NEXT THING YOU KNOW, YOU'LL BE VICE CHAIR, BECAUSE YOU'RE FOLLOWING MY ORDERS. I'M KIDDING. >> CAREFUL. BE CAREFUL. >> Chair Downs: [ LAUGHING ] I AM ABSOLUTELY KIDDING, PARTIALLY BECAUSE -- WELL, OKAY. IT'S GOOD DISCUSSION. I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO JUST KEEP IN MIND OUR ROLE. AND GREAT POINTS HAVE BEEN MADE ALL AROUND ABOUT -- TO SOME DEGREE, LETTING T MARKE DICTATE. IF SOMEBODY PROPOSES SOMETHING WE'RE UNCOMFORTABLE PUTTING IN PLACE, OR THE BENEFITS OF A PLANO CITIZEN WE SAY NO. THAT'S WHY WE'RE SITTING HERE. SO A BIG CHUNK OF IT IS EDUCATION FOR US SO THAT WE KNOW HOW TO MAKE GOOD DECISIONS. COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND YOUR POINT YEP. IF IT GETS TOO COMPLICATED, DEVELOPERS WILL JUST GO, THEY'RE HARD TO DEAL WITH, I'M NOT GOING THERE. AND IT MIGHT BE THE KIND OF PROJECT WE WANT BUT WE'RE SO DIFFICULT TO DEAL WITH AND IT'S 487 PAGES OF REGULATIONS, THEY'RE GOING TO WALK AWAY. SO, ALL RIGHT. ARE YOU EVEN HALFWAY CLEAR ABO WHAT WE WANT? [ LAUGHING ] >> THE BASIC, SIMPLE DIRECTION, WE'VE GOT IT. WE'LL PUT THIS ON THE WORK PROGRAM AND START INITIATING THE BUDGET SIDE OF THINGS. >> Chair Downs: I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU TO SCHEDULE 47 SEPARATE MEETINGS FOR THIS DISCUSSION, JUST SAYING. [ LAUGHING ] >> Chair Downs: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, APPRECIATE IT. >> [ OFF MIC ] >> Chair Downs: ABSOLUTELY. I THINK THE LAST ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS ITEMS FOR FUTURE AGENDA. AND THE WAY THIS ONE WENT, PLEASE, NOBODY SUGGEST ANYTHING. I' KIDDING. [ LAUGHING ] >> Chair Downs: ALL RIGHT. I'M NOT -- THAT'S NOT A -- >> [ OFF MIC ] >> Chair Downs: AN ITEM FOR FUTURE AGENDA IS IT'S BILL'S FAULT SO OKAY. NO. NO. [ LAUGHING ] >> Chair Downs: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR PATIENCE. I APPRECIATE IT. IT IS 8:07 AND WE ARE ADJOURNED. >> GOOD-BYE. ♪