This transcript appears to be from a City of Grant council meeting. Note: While your context list identifies Jeff Giefer as Mayor, the roll call in the transcript ([27:50]) clearly identifies **Huber** as the Mayor and **Jeff Giefer** as a Council Member. I have followed the roles as they functioned during this specific meeting. [0:03] **Mayor Huber:** ...to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. We've all had a chance to take a look at our regular agenda. Do I have a motion to approve set agenda? [0:20] **Jeff Giefer:** I'll move. [0:22] **Mayor Huber:** Thank you, John. Mr. Giefer, thank you all. [0:37] **Mayor Huber:** Kim, hi, thank you. You've all had a chance to take a look and go over the consent agenda. Do I have a motion to approve the consent agenda, please? [0:45] **Jeff Giefer:** Motion. [0:47] **Mayor Huber:** Mr. Giefer. A second, please? [0:48] **John Rog:** Second. [0:49] **Kristina Handt (Kim):** Mr. Rog? [0:50] **John Rog:** Hi. [0:51] **Jeff Giefer:** Hi. [0:52] **Council Member Carr:** Hi. [0:53] **Council Member Tuy (Bob):** Hi. [0:54] **Mayor Huber:** Thank you, Kim. Brad, you lucky guy, is not here with us tonight. Jennifer Swanson has a consideration of ordinance number 2023-08, the ordinance repealing our temporary moratorium on outside storage that we passed in order to work on that. Did you hear me, Jen? [1:23] **Jennifer Swanson:** Mr. Mayor, members of the council, I heard just a little part of it. Once again, I just described that we are going to be looking at repealing the temporary moratorium we had put in place in order to work on the storage ordinance. [1:36] **Mayor Huber:** Perfect. [1:38] **Jennifer Swanson:** Members of the council, it's very straightforward. [1:40] **Mayor Huber:** So yeah, very straightforward. We're just pulling that moratorium off because we've improved it. Now people can go ahead and move forward under those new rules. So unless there are any questions, I would entertain a motion. [1:55] **John Rog:** I move to pass resolution number 2023-26. [1:59] **Jeff Giefer:** Second. [2:02] **Mayor Huber:** Real good. Kim? [2:05] **Kristina Handt (Kim):** [Roll call responses] Hi. Hi. [2:10] **Mayor Huber:** Fantastic. And then right underneath that is a consideration of the resolution 23-37, the summary publication of ordinance. As you know, we've already voted on that new storage ordinance, so this would allow us to save some money and publish it in a fused number of words. Unless there are any questions for this publication, I would request a first and a second please. [2:32] **Jeff Giefer:** Mr. Giefer [so moved]. [2:34] **Mayor Huber:** Do I have a second? [2:35] **Council Member Tuy (Bob):** Second. [2:36] **Mayor Huber:** Thanks, Bob. [2:37] **Kristina Handt (Kim):** [Roll call responses] Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. [2:42] **Mayor Huber:** Jennifer, it was so nice to see you. We only have one left: 23-27, the Gateway development agreement. [2:48] **Jennifer Swanson:** Thank you, Mr. Mayor, members of the council. As you all know, we approved a major subdivision which was called the Gateway—I think it changed names actually halfway through the project. And there were some public improvements that were associated with that project that were memorialized via a development agreement. And the development agreement also included some information and requirements about a letter of credit being submitted to warrant that the work would be completed with respect to what was in the subdivision and then obviously then the ultimate development agreement. So from that perspective, the city engineer has taken a look at it; all the improvements actually are installed. They've been completed. So from our city side, we believe that the development agreement has essentially been completed. We would like to formally accept those improvements and basically, by doing so, it says that the responsibilities under the development agreement have been completed and the developer is no longer responsible. So that development agreement is essentially complete or it's done. So before you this evening is a resolution that indicates that. It does allow then for the developer to record that resolution that then obviously as title transfers, etc., it very clearly states that those responsibilities under the development agreement had been completed. So once again, it's relatively straightforward. The city engineer has taken a look at it and does believe that the improvements have been installed to his satisfaction. They comply with our city specifications. So from that perspective, this is sort of an administrative step to complete that process. So with that, Mr. Mayor, members of the council, I will turn it back over to you for questions. [4:37] **Mayor Huber:** Well, that's pretty straightforward, Jennifer. They've done everything they said they were going to do on the Gateway Development across from the high school parking lot there. Place looks good. Looks like they're just finishing up some construction, but all the public improvements seem to be done according to the engineer. So I would go ahead and entertain a resolution on 2023-27, the Gateway development agreement. Do I have a motion to accept? [5:11] **John Rog:** So moved. [5:12] **Mayor Huber:** Do I have a second? [5:13] **Council Member Tuy (Bob):** Second. [5:14] **Mayor Huber:** Thank you, Bob. [5:15] **Kristina Handt (Kim):** [Roll call responses] Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. [5:18] **Mayor Huber:** Merry Christmas, Jennifer. We won't see you at the—not coming to the holiday party? What? Yeah, anyway. All right, bye-bye. [5:32] **Jennifer Swanson:** All right, bye. [5:33] **Mayor Huber:** Okay, let's keep going on. Do we have our City attorney with us tonight or no? [5:45] **Kristina Handt (Kim):** Oh, is he going to be here? [5:52] **Council Member Tuy (Bob):** Well, let's hope it's a long way to Wisconsin, Tom. That radio ways go slow back and forth, really slow. [6:00] **John Rog:** That's probably because the sales tax is 3% less than ours. It probably just brings it all right down. [6:10] **Mayor Huber:** Probably less traffic, people run it over. Can't buy clothes there, Tom. River, can't buy clothes there. Tom, get less stuff. Don't buy clothes there, Tom. I'll get you if you buy clothes there. It's weird when you really look at different states and their taxing reg—what they tax and what they don't. Polk County's 5%. [6:30] **Kristina Handt (Kim):** Yep. He will be with us shortly. [6:34] **Mayor Huber:** Well good, we'll wait for our professional to get here and try not to make it too boring. [6:39] **Kristina Handt (Kim):** Mr. Mayor, council members, would you like to begin the agenda item? [6:42] **Mayor Huber:** We can begin the agenda item there, but why not just skip it and go right into the liquor licenses and come back to Nick? Can we not do that? [6:52] **Kristina Handt (Kim):** No, because he's getting on right now. [6:55] **Mayor Huber:** Oh, is he getting on right now? You want to introduce it? That's fine. Nope, nope, nope. We'll let Nick introduce it. He can talk about it for a second and then I will talk about it for a second. I know we've been hard at it for 15 minutes. Got to get going. It's tough. [7:14] **John Rog:** It's tough. We have been hard at it since 6 o'clock. [7:17] **Mayor Huber:** 6 o'clock? Well, you know, it's the whole people think I get paid by the words I say and how long I keep these gentlemen here, but it's really about the decision. So the faster you can make them, the better. Yeah, make a decision and go. Now, if I could get paid by the word, that would be different. I do a lot of that. [7:34] **Council Member:** You would be here by yourself. [7:36] **Mayor Huber:** I know! For like, three or four... fantastic, he is coming. Well, we could have done the liquor licenses. [7:46] **John Rog:** No, you can't. Clerk says you cannot skip those things and I follow the clerk's advice because she knows a little bit more about this stuff than I do. I know when I'm outclassed. [7:58] **Mayor Huber:** There he is. Nick, you with us? [8:03] **Nick (Acting Attorney):** I am. [8:05] **Mayor Huber:** Fantastic, Nick. I'm waiting for you to kind of introduce us a little bit. You can discuss whatever you'd like to discuss about this before we move forward on this one. [8:15] **Nick (Acting Attorney):** Sure, happy to do so. Thank you, Mr. Mayor and members of the council. So what you have before you relates to the Planning Commission and really the question of whether you retain the Planning Commission in its current state or whether you disband the group, keeping the Planning Commission as your ordinance would state, but ultimately allow for planning applications to come directly to the council. Some of you may recall that we did this a number of years ago when I was advising the council previously as the City Attorney. Sometimes in smaller communities when you have land use applications that arise infrequently, or when you have challenges securing Planning Commission members, or just when the Planning Commission is meeting infrequently, it can be inefficient to have a separate Planning Commission. And so state law would allow you to act ultimately as that planning body. There's no requirement that you have a separately appointed Planning Commission. And so what I've drafted for you is a directive ultimately which would disband the Planning Commission membership and allow the city council to hear those applications directly. It's a start of a conversation, and ultimately it's within the discretion of the city council to make a determination on this issue from a policy perspective. But at least as I understand it, this has been a bit of a concern as of late just given the infrequency of applications and the number of folks that you've got on your commission. So with that, I'm happy to take any questions. [10:20] **Mayor Huber:** In the past, we've had rather large Planning Commissions, we had all kinds of people who wanted to be on there. I'm not sure whether it's the economy or what's happening in Grant, but it has dwindled severely. Our chair is a great chair—I don't want to lose him in the future—but he travels for business extensively. With only four people, I think this is probably the right decision at this point. How difficult is it? Describe to me the process in order to reconstitute our Planning Commission when development agreements start coming in hot and heavy. How do we do that, Nick? [10:55] **Nick (Acting Attorney):** It's a simple resolution just changing the process. So effectively, by this process, we are saying that planning applications will come to you. And if this Council decides that it wants to reconstitute that Planning Commission, you would take that action and then advertise for the position again. So this isn't permanent. This isn't saying you will never have a Planning Commission again. It's not saying that you don't want a Planning Commission. Frankly, for efficiency purposes, the decision would be to forego a Planning Commission for now until such time either when there's a greater level of interest or when you have more planning applications that require more detailed work on a regular basis such that the recommendation of a separate commission is beneficial and efficient to the process. [11:53] **Mayor Huber:** Yeah, I was on the Planning Commission. There can be an awful lot of work involved in it. With four members and a traveling chair for his business—again, through no fault of his own—I think it's unfair to hold those guys to the requirements of this. And the council with staff here every time is certainly capable of doing these just as efficiently and just as quickly. So, questions for our attorney? John? [12:20] **John Rog:** Yeah. I mean, when you say that you could reconstitute it, I guess we would have to go through advertising again because all these people would be basically told that we don't need them anymore. Some of them may not want to come back; different people might want to be on. And so the thought—my thought process is—you would lose a lot of experience potentially if somebody says, "Well, we don't need you anymore." That would probably leave a sour taste in the people who are currently there. [13:00] **Mayor Huber:** Okay. [13:02] **John Rog:** So I mean, how do you reconstitute without—that's a political question—how do you reconstitute without having to advertise and lose the people that you have? I mean, can you keep the same people just put them on the back burner and say, "You're still on the Planning Commission; however, we will see you in three months" or something like that? You don't want to lose them if you disband it. So how can you go around that without disbanding, just to keep them there so that they know that they're still part of it? [13:30] **Nick (Acting Attorney):** Well, from my perspective, that's part of the policy calculus here—that you want to maintain good communication with those folks. The message isn't "We're disbanding because we don't value what you're doing." And I think to the Mayor's point, the question is more so that you're creating a burden on four folks that are there currently. You may want them involved in the future, but it's not efficient the way that it's set up right now. It's kind of sporadic in terms of when they may be needed. And so I think if you move in this direction, it's a matter of saying to these folks: "We do value you and we value your time and your contributions. We don't want you to be used on a sporadic or infrequent basis, and we'd love to call you back when we've got more regular planning applications and work so that you're not working only when these things pop up." From my perspective, it's just clear communication about the "why" here. [15:05] **Kristina Handt (Kim):** Mr. Mayor, council members, I will just point out how it's been handled in the past. The city would absolutely advertise in the paper for taking applications, but the current PC members would be asked to just send an email saying they would like to serve again, and it would be that simple. And that's how we have handled it in the past when we had to do this before. [15:36] **Mayor Huber:** When we disbanded that was for completely different reasons. Completely different reasons. And Council handled the load. I believe we brought back in a couple of those later on. But certainly the phone calls I'm going to make in the morning—I only have to make it to three of them because one of them already understands he's never off an airplane, so he gets it. The other three, I will explain it to them. It has nothing to do with them. It's the fact that we're spending resources, we're taking these people and trying to get four of them together sometimes on short notice for a guy running a business. You know that, John. And it's not fair. And frankly, there's really no need right now. So this is the only way that I know how to do this at this point, and it makes sense. It makes sense to just reconstitute it later on. [16:21] **John Rog:** Well, instead of doing what we have in front of us... I didn't even know this was happening because I don't recall it being talked about. But I guess the point is that if they go every three months or four months, I think they'll understand that. Kim will say, "You know what, this one's canceled," and then next month, "Well, this one's canceled." I think they would understand that more than getting a call saying it's disbanded. If I was in the Planning Commission and I understand that two months in a row we didn't get any applications therefore we don't meet, I get it. But I'm still part of it. I think they would rather be that. I know if I was in the Planning Commission and we didn't have meetings and I just don't come, I'm okay with that. But to get a call and say, "Yeah, we're disbanding the Planning Commission," I think that would leave a sour taste in my mouth. [17:35] **Mayor Huber:** I hope to God I can say it a little bit better than that. [17:39] **John Rog:** No, I'm just saying though... [17:41] **Kristina Handt (Kim):** I mean, you don't have meetings, they don't come. Understood. [17:55] **Council Member Tuy (Bob):** To John's point, yes, I think that's a poor way to treat people that have volunteered for the job. It feels like right now we're speaking for the trees because I haven't—I've talked to two that I know of. And I think one of them that I've talked to doesn't necessarily want to be off the Planning Commission. You know, so I think we need to talk to them. Does the city council make the final? Yeah, we make the decision. We've done it before. [18:42] **Mayor Huber:** We have done it, and we got yelled at because we did it. [18:45] **Kristina Handt (Kim):** Mr. Mayor, members, I am going to say right there, there are only certain things that can be... I understand that at the time the Planning Commission said, "Why didn't we get that?" but you can't pick and choose. [18:55] **Mayor Huber:** Anyway, my point is that there's been some of that too. So, prognostication coming up, Kim. You're saying that we're probably not going to be getting—it doesn't look like we got a lot of applications in the pipeline? [19:15] **Kristina Handt (Kim):** Not much. [19:16] **Mayor Huber:** Okay, so that would make what Nick's talking about—not a lot of stuff going on. How many times have we advertised? [19:25] **Kristina Handt (Kim):** I'm talking about how many applications we have coming up that we're going to need for the PC. Not a lot in the pipeline for that. [19:35] **Council Member Tuy (Bob):** So yeah, I would be kind of curious to see what the Planning Commission members wanted to do. I'm personally not going to vote "Yes" for this right now because I thought we were going to talk about it, but I didn't think I'd have a resolution to vote on. This resolution talks about disbandment. Why do we need to have that in there? To John's point, why can't we just say that the city council is now going to take over all the public hearings without disbanding the Planning Commission? Do you have to have disbandment before we can just say we're going to do it? [20:13] **Nick (Acting Attorney):** You do, because you currently have appointed members to the Planning Commission. So you have to do something with those appointed members. It doesn't make a lot of sense to simply say we're going to leave you as appointed members but bypass you and not utilize our committee structure. Practically speaking, you would disband the group; you're not eliminating the Planning Commission from the committee structure, you're just disbanding the group so that it doesn't have membership, and you're taking the position that the city council is going to hear all planning applications. [20:58] **Kristina Handt (Kim):** Mr. Mayor and council members, I will also point out that when there is a meeting, it's kind of frustrating when the packet goes out a week ahead of time—that's when I find out that they can't make it. We don't have a quorum, the public hearing has already been published in the newspaper, which has to be redone. And you run into time limits with taking action on these applications. [21:30] **Mayor Huber:** Yeah, your time limits like when we start going over our escrow because the time limits aren't respected—that's where it costs money in the publications. I had a couple people ask me, "What's the cost savings?" I think we just talked about two of them right here. [21:44] **John Rog:** If I could, Mr. Mayor... one more point. I had somebody talking about how this is going to take more council meetings. But we can have a public hearing and then go right into a vote, can't we? So that's less meetings for the applicant. We can make this real fast. So it's less cost, less meeting time. You and I have done this before. No, it'll be much more efficient. [22:30] **Mayor Huber:** My only concern is for the members. Per John's point, we will be very sensitive to explain to them that disbanding is the process in the law by which we do this and we are not saying anything negative to them whatsoever. [22:45] **John Rog:** But when you said "we," I think that means the Council, not just how you vote. [22:50] **Mayor Huber:** What I'll do is I'll name the voting members, and then they'll know who, because they'll be super sensitive, John. Wow. [23:08] **John Rog:** In what we have in the Planning Commission, it says 5 to 7 members. If we have five, a quorum would be three. So we got to make sure that we are using the proper term. We don't have seven, we have four. So the quorum for five would be three of those four. You don't need four to make a decision; you need three. That's the way I'm looking at this. So again, when we do have stuff, you don't have to have four there. You only need three. [24:02] **Mayor Huber:** I don't think a Planning Commission should ever be three people, frankly. You're making them do that work. The proper course here is to disband like we've done before and reconstitute. [24:15] **John Rog:** I disagree that is the proper course. [24:18] **Mayor Huber:** Why? We have five people up here. We could run the city with three if two people were missing today. But on a long-term basis, that does not give the number of voices. [24:35] **John Rog:** And I agree with that, but I'm just saying there's only four there. [24:40] **Mayor Huber:** Point made, got it. There's still only four there. To Kim's point, when they get their packet a week out, she has no idea whether or not she's got a quorum. It's inefficient, it's not working properly. I understand your feelings; I disagree respectfully. These people would be notified in a way where I think they would totally understand what we're doing. [25:15] **John Rog:** We talked about this last month, but this was news to me that we had a resolution. I thought we were going to talk about it. [25:25] **Mayor Huber:** Well, we are talking about it with the resolution in front of us. [25:33] **Kristina Handt (Kim):** Mr. Mayor, council members, I just will add to your discussion that it is also very unfair to our video tech who never knows month to month. He can't take on other jobs. As well as the planner; at times she is double-booked and then can't make one meeting or another. [26:00] **John Rog:** You just swayed me in that last final bit. It's not fair to them. [26:10] **Council Member Tuy (Bob):** One more comment. My angst is that you're shaking your head, you don't think any of these people are going to care. I don't know that. It's one thing to get fired and then have somebody explain it to you, and it's another thing to have explained why we'd like to disband. [26:40] **Kristina Handt (Kim):** Mr. Mayor and Council, I don't believe that any of the planning commissioners are going to feel like they have been "fired." In my opinion, I don't think they're going to be upset. [27:00] **Mayor Huber:** No one's being fired. They're being put on... [27:02] **Kristina Handt (Kim):** If we could have used the term "put on vacation" or "put on hiatus," that would be great. [27:05] **Mayor Huber:** I nominate Mr. Tuy to speak up right now. Bob, tell me what you think. [27:10] **Council Member Tuy (Bob):** I was around last time we did this, and I didn't get one bit of pushback. I don't know anybody in the group that did, other than the guy that would never show up for meetings or cancel meetings and nobody knew they were cancelled. That was a problem. [27:40] **Mayor Huber:** The level of seriousness isn't quite there. I'm going to go ahead and call the motion. Can I get a first here? [27:45] **Jeff Giefer:** Mr. Giefer. I'll make a motion on resolution 2023-37. [27:49] **Mayor Huber:** Do I have a second? [27:50] **Council Member Carr:** Second. [27:51] **Kristina Handt (Kim):** Council Member Carr? [Hi]. Council Member Rog? [Nay]. Council Member Giefer? [Hi]. Council Member Tuy? [Hi]. Mayor Huber? [Hi]. [28:10] **Mayor Huber:** Poor guys, now they got to watch all this. I have to go tell them, "No, you weren't fired." You were not fired, please. You're taking a break, we'll get you back. Nick, anything you want to follow up? [28:30] **Nick (Acting Attorney):** No, I'm good. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. [28:33] **Mayor Huber:** All right, hey, thanks for showing up, Nick. John, will you do me a favor and start with our final 2024 budget? [28:36] **John Rog:** Sure. I will move to approve resolution number 2023-29 adopting the final City general budget. [28:45] **Jeff Giefer:** Second. [28:47] **Kristina Handt (Kim):** Council Member Carr? [Hi]. Council Member Rog? [Hi]. Council Member Giefer? [Hi]. Council Member Tuy? [Hi]. Mayor Huber? [Hi]. [29:05] **John Rog:** Passing the resolution number 2023-30 establishing the final Levy certification fund. [29:15] **Council Member Carr:** Hi. [29:16] **John Rog:** Hi. [29:17] **Jeff Giefer:** Hi. [29:18] **Council Member Tuy:** Hi. [29:19] **Mayor Huber:** Hi. Thank you, John. I'm going to ask you to continue on our liquor licenses. [29:37] **John Rog:** Resolution 2023-32, approve on-sale liquor for K&S Tavern, doing business as K&S Tavern. [29:44] **Council Member Tuy:** Second. [29:45] **Kristina Handt (Kim):** Council Member Carr? [Hi]. Council Member Rog? [Hi]. Council Member Giefer? [Hi]. Council Member Tuy? [Hi]. Mayor Huber? [Hi]. [29:55] **John Rog:** Resolution number 2023-33, approval for Dellwood Barn Weddings LLC. [30:05] **Jeff Giefer:** Second. [30:06] **Kristina Handt (Kim):** [Roll call responses] Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. [30:15] **John Rog:** Resolution number 2023-34, resolution approved on-sale liquor for Shy's Inc, doing business as Gasthaus Bavarian Hunter. [30:25] **Jeff Giefer:** Second. [30:26] **Kristina Handt (Kim):** [Roll call responses] Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. [30:35] **John Rog:** Approve resolution 2023-35, liquor license Loggers Trail Golf Club. [30:45] **Jeff Giefer:** Second. [30:46] **Kristina Handt (Kim):** [Roll call responses] Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. [31:00] **John Rog:** Resolution 2023-36, approve on-sale liquor Applewood Hills LLC, doing Applewood Hills. [31:05] **Jeff Giefer:** Second. [31:06] **Kristina Handt (Kim):** [Roll call responses] Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. [31:17] **Mayor Huber:** Thank you. Let's move to our 2022 audit, which we finally miraculously received. Sharon, would you like to speak about any highlights? [31:30] **Sharon (Auditor):** No highlights. [31:32] **Mayor Huber:** Real good. You've all seen the audit. Unless there is a problem with the findings—which I didn't happen to see any in there except the usuals that we have segregation [of duties], we only have one employee so we have that one quite often. And then they did have some questions on our leases, but it looks like it was resolved properly. If we'd like to accept this 2022 audit, I do need a motion, please. [31:55] **Jeff Giefer:** Motion. [31:56] **Council Member Tuy:** Second. [31:57] **Kristina Handt (Kim):** [Roll call responses] Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. [32:03] **Mayor Huber:** Doesn't look like we have any unfinished business, which is good. Discussion items—doesn't look like we've got anything. Ken, you got anything? Doesn't sound like it. City council reports, future agenda items—gentlemen, anything on your mind? [32:30] **Jeff Giefer:** Thanks, Sharon, for doing such a great job. [32:35] **Mayor Huber:** Yeah, nice job, Sharon. I don't care what anyone says about me, Sharon, you cause some more problems so we have something to talk about! Getting back into the swing of things here. Mr. Giefer, can you do the community school meeting schedule? [32:50] **Jeff Giefer:** Thursday, December 14th; December 28th, Mahtomedi District Education Center, 7 p.m. Stillwater Public Schools board meeting, Thursday, December 14th, Stillwater City Hall, 7:00 p.m. Washington County Commissioners meeting, Tuesdays, Government Center, 9:00 a.m. [33:10] **Mayor Huber:** Thank you very much. Before we adjourn, I'd just like to state to the residents who may be watching: the League of Minnesota Cities has polled all of the cities in the state, and the average property tax increase was 8.4%. Your city of Grant has once again raised taxes 3%. We're barely keeping up with inflation. We do the basic services that need to be done. We're proud of that; I'm proud of this Council. They do the right thing, they keep our city floating, and we're very, very efficient. I have a motion to adjourn? [33:35] **John Rog:** Motion to adjourn. [33:36] **Jeff Giefer:** Second. [33:37] **Kristina Handt (Kim):** Council Member Carr? [Yes]. Council Member Rog? [Hi]. Council Member Giefer? [Hi]. Council Member Tuy? [Hi]. Mayor Huber? [Hi]. [33:50] **Mayor Huber:** I didn't know I could use Spanish. We got to mix it up, you know, keep it fresh. Spanish!