e e e the time is now 5:30 so I will call this meeting of the plan Commission of September 9th 2024 to order first we'll get some information from our technical facilitator Jesse all right Welcome to our virtual plan commission meeting we're going to cover a few basic items before beginning if you lose connection at any point during the meeting you can reconnect by clicking the link or calling on the number in your original email to members and City staff members if you are able please activate your video and keep it down for the duration of the meeting staff if you are able please activate your video when you are speaking use a raise hand feature when you'd like to be recognized to speak or ask questions staff click raise hand when you are asked a question the chair would do the best to call in committee members the order in which their hands raised Ling your hand will take you out of the queue members of the public who have registered to speak the name you entered in Zoom must match the name you entered in registration you will remain muted until called upon the clerk will tell you when your time is up after all register and speak a member of the body may ask you a question if you need to share documentation with the commission please send it to the email listed on today's agenda chair the floor is yours thank you Jesse uh first uh Communications disclosures and and recusals members of the body should make any required disclosures or recusals under the city's ethics code uh commissioner solheim thank you I am recusing myself from items 13 and 14 um as part of my job I have worked with the applicant on a small grant for the Huxley yards okay thank you commissioner Sanders thank you I just want to disclose related to agenda item four that I contracted with Rick North to build my home in 20121 that work has since completed and has no bearing on my ability to be impartial thank you okay uh moving on um I don't believe we have any public comment is that correct Megan yes okay that's corre okay thank you um next we will go to um minutes um we have the minutes of August 26 2024 regular meeting are there any additions or corrections to the minutes seeing no raised hands is there a motion to approve move by alderfield is there a second seconded by commissioner Mendes um I will assume unanimous consent unless I see a raised hand to object seeing no raised hand the motion passes unanimously okay next uh schedule of upcoming meetings uh there are regular meetings on September 23rd October 7th and October 21st commissioner Mendes did you sorry okay and then there uh is a special meeting on Thursday November 7th the regular meetings will be virtual the special meeting will be in person and will start at 5:00 in room 2:15 Madison Municipal Building Alder field thank you chair I just wanted to point out for the technical staff that um Alder ugar and anelie are in the queue as attendees perhaps they could be promoted yeah thanks I'm working on it right now okay thank you um alderfield very much for that um okay next we will go to the consent agenda it is the custom of the plan commission to remove from the agenda those items on which staff believes an application has had sufficient review to Warrant approval with all of the conditions placed upon it by various City departments on which the applicant accepts those conditions and there are no individuals who have registered to speak in opposition to the item they're placed on a consent agenda along with any referrals and they are addressed at the beginning of our meeting people interested in those items can then uh sign off um unless a member of the plan commission requests separation in which case the item will be removed from the consent agenda and taken in the regular course of business uh the following items are recommended for the consent agenda agenda item 3 4 5 6 and then for referral agenda items seven and8 um and then consent agenda um items 9 and 10 for referral agenda items 11 12 and referral agenda item 15 are there any requests for separation seeing none I will read those items into uh the record agenda item three legistar 84 686 located at 1018 through 1034 wal Walsh Road Alder District 3 consideration of a conditional use in the Industrial Limited district for a nightclub to allow live music at a private dog park with incidental alcohol sales agenda item four legistar 84687 located at 504 East Lake View Avenue Alder district 15 consideration of a demolition permit to demolish a single family residence agenda item five legistar 8481 located at 4602 and 4698 East Park Boulevard Alder District 17 consideration of a major Al ation to an approved conditional use in the Suburban employment center district for a hospital to allow construction of 120,000 square foot addition to the UW Health East Madison Hospital agenda item six legistar 8419 located at 208 East Olen Avenue Alder district 14 consideration of a conditional use in the Suburban employment District to allow a public school tenant in an existing multi-tenant commercial building and then for referral agenda items seven and eight which are related and should be referred to September 23rd 2024 at the request of the applicant uh on the consent agenda agenda items 9 and 10 which are related um and will be uh a agenda item nine legistar 8449220048 mixed use building containing approximately 750 square ft of commercial space and 44 dwelling units agenda item 10 legistar 84624 approving a certified survey map for property owned by the city of Madison located at 1202 South Park Street Alder District 13 and then for referral um agenda items 11 and 12 which are related and should be referred to October 7th at the request of the applicant and staff um agenda item 11 is legistar 84607 and uh agenda item 12 is 8410 and then also for referral agenda item 15 legistar 83 269 um I will open the public hearing there are no uh registrants wishing to speak I'll close the public hearing is there a motion to approve the consent agenda a move by Alder yug seconded by commissioner Mendes and I will will uh assume unanimous consent unless I see a raised hand to object seeing no raised hands a motion passes unanimously okay moving on we are now on agenda item two legistar 8 4451 located at 225 West Gilman Street Alder District r two consideration of a demolition permit to demolish a three family dwelling first we'll hear about this from Kevin ferco uh thank you chair uh good evening members of the plan commission um as the chair just noted before you tonight is consideration of a demolition permit uh requesting the existing three family dwelling at 225 West Gilman Street to be raised uh from a contextual standpoint this subject building sits between the existing habad house at 223 West Gilman Street and Lisa Link uh peace Park uh the de demolition is being proposed to allow for an addition to the habad house um again that is adjacent to the site um initially when this proposal was uh submitted it was believed that the addition was also going to require conditional use consideration from the plan commission after the the uh zoning administrator has confirmed that because of the size of the dis did not meet the threshold the conditional use um only requires review from the Urban Design commission and not the plan commission so again to confirm the only item before the plan commission uh this evening related to this item is the demolition request and that's subject to the demolition standards of section 28185 and noted in Tim Tim Park staff report um the if this is approved and the addition um comes forward that will require a separate action from the urban City's Urban Design commission um as far as the existing condition of the building proposed for uh demolition um there's information noted in the staff report uh the Assessor's information says that the building was constructed in 1910 however other preservation files that the city has uh indicate that the building might go back to 1898 as far as the recommendation from the city's landmarks commission as with any demolition the the landmarks commission is required to make an advisory recommendation to the plan commission before the plan commission takes action and in this case the urban I'm sorry the landmarks commission uh did make a finding um that the the building was a cont contributing structure to the bansin hill national register District um and did note that there was historic value related to its position within the national District did want to note that is within the national District it is not within the city's Local District um as a note National districts are an honorary designation that allow and provide some funding opportunities while local districts require additional approvals uh from the cities landmarks commission so in conclusion um there is um a recommendation that this the building does have historic value from the city's land commission um in addition there is information in the application materials that talk about condition concerns of the building there concerns related to the foundation uh to some framing issues and then other exterior issues that are summarized in the applicant's letter of intent um based on this information uh the planning division does recommend that the client commission give careful consideration to all the factors here and make findings related to the demolition approval standards found in section uh 28185 of Madison General ordinance staff can be available to answer questions after the public hearing thank you thank you Kevin I will open the public hearing and I note that there is one person registered uh available to answer questions hammed uh noani um Elmwood Avenue Middleton in support um representing University of Wisconsin Madison Shabad organization um is there are there any other registrants Megan yes chair um we do have one other registrant that is registered in support but not wishing to speak um Carl Corbett also on Elmwood Avenue and we also have a registrant um opposed and wishing to speak Robert kleba uh on East Goram Street okay uh Robert uh you have three minutes chair there's no person attendance by that name okay are there questions of our uh registrant who is available to answer questions commissioner solheim thank you um there was mentioned in the staff report about the standard of relocation and I wanted to ask the applicant if they had uh studied the possibility of relocating the building if they are available to answer that question Jesse is our registrant who said he is available to answer questions uh signed in there attendance oh uh Jesse I actually give this a TR can you hear me is this Hamid this is he okay did you hear the question I did hear the question thank you very much for that question it was brought up um during that Urban Design uh comment and questions the kabat um is more than willing to donate the building and uh we looked at possibility of its relocation it's complicated the building is a bloomf frame building it's aging it's a structural is in significant uh disrepair and uh on there's a central chimney at the center of the building that supports the adjacent framing so it it does create complication it's not nothing is impossible it can be done it might have to be done in to two sections but it certainly is within the Roma possibilities okay so if um you were interest or interested in donating the building what would that process look like in terms of listing it or advertising have you considered what that may entail uh I'm not so sure frankly typically these type of uh buildings there is a there is some interest in relocating it and there's a site that can accommodate it so for the downtown Madison the single biggest issue is going to be the real estate value is so much higher than the and it will just be that much more by the time you re you relocate the building and you can only relocate the building well reasonably within some short distances I assume so it would have to be of some greater value you probably could build this exact same building on any lot anywhere for less expensive than what it would take to relocate it so um I am not so sure we certainly are more than willing to broadcast the information if somebody's interested in taking it um I'm sure there's some um there's some means to advertise it I'm just not so sure somebody would actually take it but than willing to do it happy to do it right thank you that answers my question commissioner heck thank you Hamid I have a a couple of questions for you um I I see from the city's property records that your organization bought this building in 2017 is that correct I am not so sure I'm the architect and uh Rabbi mandal is the owner it was donated to the to the I I do know that it was a it was a gift to the kabad okay I I'll assume that that information is correct um do you know uh about the the use of this building since then have uh the apartments been rented out yes they are student housing they're student housing and predominantly and uh I from some of the pictures that I saw in the uh I'll call it condition report that came along with the the demolition letter of intent um I'll be honest with you some of it looked a little rough but it's it's currently occupied then or or has been occupied well as somebody who has lived in a lot of student housing in very old buildings I can tell you it's no worse than the others the issue is that you're there as a student you're there for a very short period of time and probably never in the house but more than a few hours and when you sleep so uh is it liveable it's in the eye of Beholder yes it is liveable it is in okay condition it certainly meets all the criterias to have a safe and liveable environment what is the problem is that exuberant amount of Maintenance that goes into it to maintain it and uh these buildings at some point is going to they they need significant tender loving care as an as a preservation architect I'm talking about and then you get to a point that then you're putting good money after bad and I think we have arrived at that decision for this building okay uh thank you those were my questions I'm happy to answer are there any other questions for our registrant Alder youare uh yes uh could you refresh me on on some of the details on the intent uh will there be in the kabad house will there be Apartments there will not be okay and we we looked at it with initially I try to look at it and it became unfeasible frankly from from number of comments that we received from Urban Design we initially had proposed some some apartments and Urban Design studly identified that we are overbuilding the site and the source of my question was just an interest on whether in this sensitive time whether we were decreasing the number of living units available to uh interested students uh I hear you I hear you loud and clear sir I I we we we did our best we Ely tried thank you you're welcome happy to do it are there any other questions for our registrant seeing none I'll loop back to Jesse did our other uh registrant show up um on um our speaker list nope okay thank you then I will close the public hearing are there questions of Staff commissioner heck thank you uh Kevin you might have to help me with this uh is I we didn't really get access to all the demolition photos and the narratives surround the um the the the the reasons for requesting a demolition until later this afternoon they they had I guess the letter of intent had been replaced with an updated one and all that information wasn't available so I wanted to make sure Commissioners had seen that uh that letter of intent I think is is is where it is now uh let me just double check because uh I'm getting to my question don't worry uh um I'm looking at the agenda to make sure that is in there if it's a separate separate link oh it's it's it's I think uh included in the letter of intent now as it as it as it originally was before that was replaced if anybody wants to see that I I think that's correct Kevin do do you see that yes the I believe the the conditions information is within the letter of intent file and legister okay great and uh my question is I because I kind of had to look at that at sort of at the last minute I thought I saw a reference to perhaps the applicant I mean they weren't proposing you know keeping the facade of the old building maybe there was just a passing reference to design uh including references a future structure including references to the current building did did you see that or am I imagining that in the letter of intent with the conditions um I I guess the question is um I'm not sure where I saw that um but it it I don't think there was ever uh I mean we're not considering the future use at this time but uh it is as you know in interesting information when somebody does offer to somehow preserve some aspect of it uh We've had various permutations of of people uh honoring buildings Etc but uh you know that doesn't ring a bell maybe maybe Colin knows Colin um yeah I was just I had brought up the um materials and the the letter of intent does say the proposed Edition will preserve the historic facade and pick up existing materials and horizontal datums from the 2017 Edition to create a harmonious and aesthetically pleasing overall facade um so it's a okay thanks I'm glad you located that thanks for for for for doing that uh sounds ambitious all right um that that was my question thank you are there any further questions of staff seeing no raised hands I'm looking for emotion aler you uh I move that the conditions for a demolition permit having been that we approve the demolition permit is there a second second in by commissioner solheim any discussion commissioner heck thank you um I I I've I've been struggling with this one um I see similarities to uh other demolition permits that we've considered uh some of which we've approved and some of which we've denied uh whether they're in a national register historic district or a hoped for uh by some National Historic District uh and and also I I I look at uh recommendation 75 in the downtown plan that that encourages the preservation rehab and adaptive reuse of sound older buildings that contribute to the district's character that's for the State Street area and these buildings are in the State Street area there's these this this is a very small area that's actually not on State Street uh but uh I I I I've struggled with with with juggling that along with uh what I really do see as an exemplary uh demolition set of demolition photos and discussion of the Integrity of the building uh and and uh I I'll be honest with you I'm I'm still on the fence I I I don't think that this is uh a you know by itself a very important uh building worth saving but I do think that because it's a contributing building in the N the National Historic District that caution is warranted thank you commissioner heck uh commissioner solheim and commissioner solheim I apologize usually I ask the uh uh yeah yeah um I I just wanted to chime in I agree I've have been challenged with this one a bit as we review it um similarly thinking of others that that we have reviewed in particularly because we you know cannot technically consider the future use nor do we see a future use proposed for this so we're really just considering the Demolition and how that uh AIDS in implementing our plans um I do just want to a you know as was noted in the staff report um we have both approved and denied developments that have had the same recommendation or or note from landmarks commission and I expect that will continue and and is appropriate because every building and the context of every building is unique so I think we have to consider them um with that in mind and rather than you know each project is not going to be ruled the same based on past history so um I am in support of this demolition but agree that it's still um it's something that I think about as we move forward particularly in the State Street area thank you commissioner are there other thoughts comments input before we come to a vote uh commissioner Mendes thank you chair I have a question so about a year or two ago we approved a demolition a little further Northeast um based off of them reusing the facade and they came back and said they couldn't use a facade um and we had to redo the demolition based off of their um update would this be the same way since they're saying they plan to use the faade plan to use the horizontal um dams or whatever if they don't do that does it have to come back Kevin see you popped up yeah I I think the I think the project you're referring to is it was a demolition that was approved on West Wilson Street um stop me if I'm talking about the wrong project that's what this sounds like I think yeah and the issue with that one was a little bit I would say this a little bit of a different example that was one where uh they came in and uh requested they were going to preserve portions of the facade and that was part of their demolition ask that they were going to leave portions of the facade um and then take uh remove other portions of the building and then when they started to do the work they determined it was more feasible to take the entire building down but we were still dealing with demolition um and so that's why we had to it was it was noticed and it was approved as a partial demolition um and so that was the that was the difference here um I don't think that because that comment would relate to the proposed future use that the plan commission doesn't get to see or get to approve I don't believe that it was it would require that if they uh if they do something different to the facade I don't believe that that would make that item for that reason come back to the plan commission I believe that would still be in the Urban Design commission's control okay all right thank you any further comments seeing no raised hands we'll come to a vote and I will assume unanimous consent unless I see a raised hand to object seeing no raised hands the motion passes unanimously uh moving on then we will come to agenda items 13 and 14 which are related and will be considered as one public hearing following the public hearing the plan commission shall make separate findings and motions on each agenda item agenda item 13 legistar 8461 9 creating sections of of the Madison General ordinances to change the zoning of property located at 905 Huxley street from traditional residential Urban 2 District to Regional mixed use District in Alder District 12 and agenda item 14 legistar 84629 approving the preliminary plat and final plant of Huxley yards on property addressed as 9005 Huxley Street all District 12 and on this one we'll hear from Colin punt Colin yes thank you chair zers so uh before the the commission tonight the applicant proposes to subdivide this large lot at um 905 Huxley Street into two lots via a plat uh referred to as Huxley yards um the applicant also proposes to rezone the southernly portion of the lot from tru2 uh to rmx uh for a 50 unit multif family Residential Building um the proposed building is a permitted use in the rmx district and is not before the plan commission for approval um a separate permitted use site plan will be required uh for that proposed residential development project lot two uh to the north is proposed to uh remain Zone tr2 and is currently under construction with a seven story multif family Residential Building uh this area has a lot of history uh for the plan Commission in 2022 um a zoning map amendment was uh approved for the larger parcel generally addressed as 2007 Roth Street um that created areas of uh Conservancy district tru2 and rmx uh conditional uses were approved for a six-story apartment building on lot one and a seven story apartment building on lot two of that CSM the third lot was created for parks Open Spaces um as as well as as as other areas um so lot two of that previous CSM is the subject subject site for that the commission is looking at tonight um because that original CSM actually created four Parcels the creation of two additional Lots out of the existing lot to creates a total of five Parcels um by successive divisions uh within a a period of 5 years um and thus they are legally required to uh subdivide this lot uh via plat rather than CSM which is why we have a a a two lot plat in front of us um staff do believe that the standards for land divisions and for zoning map amendments can be found met and that the plan commission uh should forward both requests to the common council with a recommendation of approval uh I do have one note um before I finish uh there was an addendum to the plan commission staff report that was uh posted this afternoon the city engineering Division and the traffic engineering uh traffic engineering division have Revis the recommended conditions of approval and have recommended that comments 8 and 46 of the original staff report uh be deleted uh a planned north south multi-use path from Huxley Street to Commercial Avenue uh is required in those conditions but uh it does not appear that that uh that path is constructible um due to some necessary storm water facilities that lie in its path uh staff do note that um recommended condition of approval 45 uh is remains that requires the uh dedication um or granting of an easement that would allow a 10- foot wide sidewalk uh along the north side of Commercial Avenue City plans um to extend that path um to connect to the existing metal path uh this would provide an acceptable alternative connection to the um future Huxley rusin Street connection uh that is being constructed to the Northwest uh so for condition 45 would remain um conditions uh8 and 46 uh are recommended to be removed um and again as staff uh continues to recommend uh approval of these items with this clarification um subject to all the input at the the public hearing and and all of the other conditions uh after the public hearing I am uh more than happy to answer any questions thank you Colin with that I will open the public hearing we have uh several registrants Kevin mcdonal Wilshire Boulevard Santa Montica California support wishing to speak representing Lincoln Avenue communities uh Wilshire Boulevard Santa Monica California Kevin you have three minutes thank you chair um as mentioned Kevin McDonald I'm a regional project partner with Lincoln Avenue communities uh big thank you to the commission members for having us tonight and excited to share the uh next phase of what we're calling the hux yards uh development so the Conway as mentioned will provide uh 50 units um of affordable housing it'll actually have a mix of both affordable and market rate units and we'll provide a different level of affordability and Market rents um that are not in the first two phases of uh of the Huxley ards development U really the reason why we are here today is I outlined is to really clean up some of the rezoning boundaries that were previously approved um and really to allow for the remaining tru2 that splits the sites um to to um hopefully be rezoned um all as rmx uh so next uh think I'd like to turn it over if I can to Kevin Burl from kenoy Bruce Architects to go over the design details thank you Kevin McDonald and next registrant is Kevin burrow Greenway Boulevard Middleton in support and wishing to speak representing kenoi Bruce Architects Kevin you have three minutes thank you very much uh this this is Kevin bur with kenian Bruce if you go to the next slide please you can see the overview of the Huxley yards development here our site is located in the uh southern end of this development along Commercial Avenue highlighted in the Middle with the yellow icon and then the previously approved plans for the development to the north are currently under construction so this is just the last piece to finish off this Western half of what used to be the osam Meer facility along Commercial Avenue you on the next slide please the overview of the site plan is shown here we have access to our site off a Commercial Avenue and access to the underground parking is achieved off the Northern end of the building we have surface parking along the eastern half and then enclosed garages on the northern half and then actually enclos parking at first floor level for the upper half of the building and then highlighted in blue to the north was to speak to the storm water management facilities that need to be installed for this entire development which is restricting the option of having a path connected north south so that comment has been removed from the staff report and also to highlight we are creating a buffer between us and the har Meer Ice Arena directly to the West in the area that's highlighted in green to allow the operations of heart Meer Ice Arena to continue as it have for many years but as you note in this plan there current development does encroach onto this property but that is going to be allowed to be um maintained and remain and we are doing landscaping screening to provide a buffer between us and the ice Marina we have our outdoor amenity feature then on the Eastern side of the building shown towards the front of the building with an outdoor communal patio area next slide please so on the floor plan so the upper slide represents the first floor level where you can see the parking on the right half which would be the northern half the main entry to the building is on the southern half on the left half where we have a community service facility are Leasing office and our main entry vestibule as well and the remaining portions of the building is a mixture of ones twos and three bedroom apartments and to note there are seven three bedro apartments that have direct entry opportunity from the exterior to serve large families Kevin you have one minute remaining thank you L next slide please so just some concept renderings um to show the high quality development that's being proposed here this has um been designed in context to the developments to the north but it has its own look and feel with regards to a strong masonry base element and then composite siding materials for the upper four floors you can see the main entry feature shown in the front of the building here and then the community area over to the right next slide please here's a view of along the side of the building you can see the community service facility and then all the apartments above next slide please and then here's a view along the back where you can see the same materials are Cur on all sides and you get a glimpse as to what the design of those freestanding garages are as well and the access to the underground or enclos first our parking and trash room are just tucked around the corner that was it thank you thank you right on time um the next registrant is uh Jennifer arander Erie Court Madison opposed and wishing to speak Jennifer you have three minutes thank you um I am opposing items 13 and 14 and requesting that you vote no on these items if you've actually seen the space it's not appropriate for children it's actually rather dangerous stuck between those ice arena and businesses and railroad tracks um rmx zoning as is being proposed would allow an inappropriate construction of a 50 unit family housing with no no required safe place for children to play rmx zoning requires no usable open space and no lot area for exclusive residential use the zoning map Amendment standards must be based on public health safety and Welfare and this rmx zoning at this site fails to meet that test since the site is now zoned partly rmx and tru2 it could easily be designated entirely Tru to which would require 2,000 square ft of usable open space so if children are going to be allowed to live there then this zoning should be entirely tru2 or another option would be make it adult only building and allow it to be rmx thank you thank you Jennifer also registered is Noah fiser Wilshire Boulevard Santa Monica and support and available to answer questions representing Lincoln Avenue communities um in Santa Monica Matt hos Verona Avenue Verona Wisconsin in support available to answer questions representing Lincoln Avenue committees in Santa Monica um all the other registrants uh are uh not available to answer questions and do not wish to speak are there questions for any of our registrants commissioner heck thank you um I'll uh ask this of of Kevin McDonnell and it may be something I I end up talking to staff about but I'll I'll give it a shot with Kevin Uh Kevin uh we we see in public comment about that that this rezoning is uh destroying wet land can you can you give us a little background some of us remember some of what's happened in this area with your earlier applications and uh can can you just give us a little background about what you think about that claim um yeah in terms of this site uh in Matt H is probably the best one to just confirm I don't recall that there were any Wetlands anywhere on this site I'm fairly positive of that um and you know certainly if there were we would have to work through any approvals from the DNR but um uh in the past we did work through some Wetland delineations that were part of the city Street Extension um and those were all approved so I I can assure you that on this site there aren't any uh current Wetland concerns okay thank you I'll I'll verify with staff but I suspect that you're correct um I think that's my question thank you thank you commissioner are there any further questions of any of our registr seeing no raised hands I will close the public hearing are there questions of Staff commissioner heck thank you uh I I assume this is for Colin I'll I'll just verify that what we heard from from Kevin McDonald is is the case for these these this area at least and and then another question but why don't you go ahead with that yeah to the best of my knowledge um any environmental corridors or Wetlands um that that have been delineated have been in the properties or the areas further to the north um in this larger part Meer property um and not in this um sliver along Commercial Avenue okay thanks and then my second question is maybe a more philosophical question uh about rmx zoning and certainly many of us were involed involved in in kind of helping to craft what rmx zoning is but uh you know when you when you hear there is no requirement for open space uh I could see where somebody could you know think well that sounds kind of strange uh I mean there are building setbacks and and things like that are there are there indeed no requirements at all for any us uh open space or what or usable open space yeah so we need to make the um the differentiation between usable open space and lot coverage because there are lot coverage requirements in rmx and so that means that um you can only have a certain percentage of the property that um that are are um impermeable surfaces um they're is no requirement for usable open space which is actually the same as everywhere in the transit oriented development uh overlay there is no requirement for usable open space um I think looking at the preliminary plans for this um particular parcel um and again noting that this needs to go through permitted use site plan review these are these are not final plans um that they are probably probably meeting that that 2,000 square foot um number that that uh M argelander uh put out there um that that would be required in tru2 um I have not made that calculation myself I don't know if it actually is 2000 square fet um but the the usable open space um definition in the zoning code uh can be quite flexible um and it is usually pretty easy for uh for applicants to to find that um amount of space and and I think if we were to take a look at this uh site plan it would it would be pretty easy to to find 2,000 square feet thanks uh just a a follow-up question the the it was nice to see plans for this building that's likely going to be proposed but as you referred to they could uh do something entirely different and and as as long as it met the guidelines for being a permitted use uh we're not going to see this again uh at plan commission if if they stay in that permitted use category it could be different probably won't be but right and then one more question uh I'm I I saw you shaking your head yes so that that that answered that and uh there's a great deal of Parkland and conservation land within less than a block of this I guess the tru2 portion of it and maybe a block for the rmx isn't that correct yes that is correct okay those are my questions thanks thank you commissioner Alder burus oh yes so I just wanted to kind of clarify just for the record and just for the leens person that's not on Planning Commission and uh into buildings and so forth when we're talking about the wetlands um Colin they're they're pretty close so like if an average person that wasn't um you know into specific planning language you know how many feet would you say it's away and would the general public consider it to be kind of you know part of the wetlands since are you following my question yes uh yeah I am I would say um that the you know the wetlands are predominantly contained within the the large uh parcel that was created um and dedicated and partially purchased by the parks division um I think that's about 13 to 14 acres somewhere in that range um I would say that from the lot one the proposed lot one of this plat the southern one along commercial uh Avenue um probably 400 feet um at its closest point to the to the wetlands okay and if I could just ask another question chair yes please go ahead yeah and so also just for the general public because it was shocking to me on another project um that when the rules were Rewritten for um planning in an effort to um develop housing is that there's no requirement for open space and in certain areas in the to District there's in fact no uh requirement for parking is that correct so it's not like it's I just don't want it to be that one side is making things up because it's if you start to look at it you go oh wow we don't need parking oh wow there's no requirement for open space yes there's there's no requirement for open space uh in the rmx district um and I believe no requirement for uh parking in the rmx district but I as as as I understand it the applicant is um proposing uh a a fair amount of parking for for their proposal thank you did you have any uh further questions Alder no thank you thank you uh anyone else questions for staff seeing no raised hands is there a motion Alder you I guess we need to two motions here so yes indeed with item 13 on the zoning correct move that um the the plan commission finds that standards for zoning map amendments are met and that the request to change zoning of lot one from a combination of tru2 and rmx to rmx um be forwarded to the common council with a recommendation to approve subject the conditions listed by this thank you um second Ed by Alder field Alder you did you wish to speak to your motion no okay uh are there any comments or insights Alder burus yes and I'm off screen just because like my internet is unstable you guys saw I left before so I don't want to do my speech and then have it cut out so um and if if it's okay chair I'd like this these comments uh pertain to 84 619 and then the one right after which I think is 84 629 right is it okay if I give comments just overall yes okay yeah so I'm the I'm the Elder in this district and I asked I did ask for the questions and answers uh to be included and considered on both of these items um they're really question answer of you know a lot of different experts if you will going back and forth in the nitty-gritty so um that brings me to my point that I want to say about this um there when you read what I was sent there's too many questions to be answered uh but yet we can't simply discount or you know disrupt or ignore um the questions that the community are asking and the questions that you know staff asks and alers ask and uh stakeholders and whatnot um the problem here right now is uh the city committed years ago um to approve this project I guess it's about one and a half years ago maybe in the three years total or four years something like that that it's been going on uh with that I want everyone to know that it's for the general public it's the Oscar Meyer area so they don't look at it as peace mail even that it is peac mail and whatever is going to be done by whoever leads on this and right now it's Lincoln Capital uh it's going to set the tone for the entire neighborhood and all the other neighborhoods around it so we don't want this to be another example of uh what many community members um on all different sides uh depending what the issue is feel um that's going on in our quest to infill everything you know AKA build intense and den housing so while I think in this inance our energy because it's already done we get into lawsuits and it just gets really really really messy I think our energy is best F fit for the future going forward um and we do need to do something about the neighborhood concerns I mean if you look at the document that that that uh I had put in the in the in the um in the record I mean those are some serious questions and some of them can be applied right now some of them are never going to be applied because they don't apply to us and then some of them are viewpoints and then some of them are moot because it was approved and so I'm just asking the committee in the future to make the process smoother we want to make the process inclusive again and we also want to kind of change CH and flow with the neighborhood because we're all part of the neighborhood at some time and what happens is if we start getting down on the nitty-gritty on every application that comes in for everything um we're all going to spend a lot of time on this not that it's not important but it probably should have been done um back when it was approved uh because this is a environmentally EnV overall the Oscar Meyer area it's very clear to everybody it's environmental hazard and it's has to be cleaned up and also that it's needed for intense and dense housing but if we're going to house families you know we have to be concerned about kids um crossing railroad tracks or killing the wetlands or whatnot so um you know it it ends up spending a lot of time for this commission residents developers stakeholders Alders and those who haven't even we haven't even met yet so um I think we can move forward on this but I I I I want to get some of these questions that the neighborhood has answered as we continue to go on and I don't want to slice and dice it down to a level where the developer I'll do respect says okay well I don't think there's any Wetlands on our property technically that's true but if you just walk down for like two minutes you're in a wetland so it will be affected so I think we can do better than that we got to keep coming together and in the future we'll do differently I'm hoping that's it I'm sure I went over my three minutes that's fine aler uh any other input or comments before we come to a vote commissioner hack uh thank you um I I wanted to mention that I I live in a building that has children in it that has effectively no usable open space uh we but we have a park uh less than a block away and it it works and I think in all cities that's that's something that works uh as long as you have open space within a short distance I I think uh not everybody needs a yard and and uh and and so I'm I'm not uh particularly concerned about the lack of of open space usable open space all those things um I also just wanted to say on behalf of plan commission that um I think we really have Doug into the Oscar Meyer area when we uh dealt with the more contentious uh projects by Lincoln Capital all the rezoning uh where the roads were going to be Etc the wetlands and there was a tremendous amount of of talking with the public hearing what they had to say there were some compromises on on the the the on behalf of staff and plan Comm commission and I just wanted to say that I think we have really sliced and diced this area we should continue to do so and I think Alder ladimir burus asked some important questions and and making sure we continue to engage on those but I I just wanted to say I think we've done a fine job that's it thank you commissioner any other comments before we come to a vote seeing no raised hands will come to a boat and I will assume unanimous consent unless I see a raised hand to object seeing no raised hands the motion passes unanimously and now we do have uh agenda item 14 and uh looking for a motion on that Alder youare I remov that uh the plan commission finding that the standards for land divisions having been met uh that the preliminary plat and final plat for Huxley yards be forwarded to the common council with a recommendation to approve subject to conditions from reviewing agencies thank you is there a second seconded by commissioner Mendes did you wish to speak to your motion Alder you g no thank you uh are there any comments input discussion seeing no raised hands will come to a vote and I will assume unanimous consent unless I see a raised hand to object seeing no raised hands a motion passes unanimously uh the next item on the agenda um business byy members is there any business byy members seeing no raised hands we will move to the secretary's report Megan thank you chair um I'll just briefly note that at our very next meeting in addition to the items that you would typically um have on your agenda related to development review we'll have a series of informational presentations we will be joined by uh members of the mayor's office to just give a briefing to the commission about the city's budget um and the budget process for fy2 uh we're also expecting uh presentations from our planning staff on the upcoming Southwest and Southeast area plan processes um and you will actually uh be involved in making a recommendation to the common Council related to authorizing those plans to be uh and we do expect that there will also be a presentation by engineering related to the city's Transportation demand management standards and some updates that they are anticipating making to that so I'll just highlight those things um the rest of the projects that you have on your agenda are listed under the secretary's report and uh before I wrap up my report I just wanted to take a moment to um say thank you and appreciate chair Zeller for her service to the plan commission and to the city um this will likely be her last meeting with us as the chair and while I have not been here for a long time and had the opportunity to work with her um in the ways that you all have I can say that I really appreciate her thoroughness and attention to the business of the plan commission um and I've really appreciated her welcoming me as a new member of the city team um and really appreciate the support coming into this role so thank you chair thank you very much and uh as all of you know I really have appreciated all of our plan Commissioners and the hard work I know you do and the amazing support from our city staff so um so thank you for that uh commissioner heck thanks I I thought I should say a few words at least and uh you know I I wanted to recognize Liddell's really I think uh transformation of plan commission and her leadership on plan commission uh I think has really changed the mindset of not just plan commission but uh city council um many other agencies other than than planning uh the the quarterly meetings that we're having I I really think are revolutionary for for those of us who think about these things fairly often often to actually take proactive steps on policy is so important and I'm not an alder but I can imagine uh that uh it helps Alders to have people like us thinking about these things and working with staff uh I I I just think it's it's kind of revolutionary so thank you Liddell for that and I know you're not disappearing but uh thanks too for all your mentorship over the last uh decade Plus thank you very much um commissioner solheim thank you I Echo all of that and just say it's kind of hard to imagine these Monday evening zooms without you um it has been so comforting to know that you are always thinking of the big picture and you know holding us in our city to a high standard and we are all better for it so thank you so much for your service thank you Alder Harrington mckenny thank you very much um and I'm not on the Planning Commission but um I would be negligent in recognizing Alder excuse me I slipped uh um chair zers I had the opportunity to sit next to her as a new aler and the Precision and accuracy that she took with everything that came before us as a member of the Madison City Council she just took those skills and reformed the Planning Commission and so I would join others and especially those who have sat in the seat of an alder to recognize um the gem of a person that you have had to lead the uh Planning Commission and commission you do an excellent job um it's challenging but you stay the course and you stay the course because it is very well prepared well organized and you're able to follow that course because you've had an excellent excellent leader and so um uh Liddell chair Liddell I'd like to add my sentiments and join those who um will say great things about you welld deserved thank you very much for allowing me to share that time thank you Alder Alder you care so officially I have not been a member of the plan commission for very long but I've watched it for quite a while and it just it it gives me Comfort to know that uh for myself I think for all of us here who've served with you that as we walk and right around the city we're going to see so many things that like an artist ought to have an autograph of Liddell Zill on those buildings thank you thank you halter um okay uh with that uh we are looking for a motion to adjourn move by commissioner solheim seconded by Alder field and I will assume unanimous consent unless I see a raised hand to object and with that we are adjourned and thank you all very much take care for