This transcript has been formatted with speaker identifications based on the context provided and the procedural flow of a Burnsville City Council meeting. [00:00] **Mayor Elizabeth Kautz:** I'm going to be there tomorrow though. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. It is now 5:30 and I will call this regular meeting of the Burnsville City Council to order. It is our tradition to stand for a moment of silence followed by the pledge of allegiance and we invite you to join us. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Good evening, everyone and welcome to our council meeting. It's always good to see people um in the in person, but uh people can also watch us on um burnsvillemn.gov/meetings or on Comcast Channel 16 or 859. The public can also participate through Zoom by joining us at zoom.us/join. More information is available on our meetings webpage and in a council agenda packet. The first item on our agenda this evening is announcements and we don't have any proclamations, but we will also hear a report from MVTA. So, our council meetings are scheduled for regular council meet meetings are scheduled for Tuesday, April 7th at 5:30 p.m. and Tuesday, April 21st at 5:30 p.m. We have a work session that's scheduled for Tuesday, April 14th at 5:30 p.m. We have a budget work session that's scheduled for this evening Tuesday, March 24th at 6:00 p.m. and then we have a closed session >> [snorts] >> for the city manager's annual performance review and that's scheduled for Tuesday, April 7th at 6:00 p.m. in Dakota B. Unless [snorts] noted all meetings are held in the in the council chambers. And so, it is my great pleasure to introduce to you Luther Winder, executive director of MVTA who is presenting. Good evening, Mr. Winder. And joining him is Ms. Joya. [01:55] **Luther Winder:** Yes. Yes. Yes. Thank you guys for your time. Um to our presentation. Just going to update you on update of Minnesota Valley Transit Authority. So, as you see on the agenda today, we're just going to talk about MVTA, some ridership. I'll also give an update on service analysis followed with a local forward initiative as well as follow up at the last I'll talk about 2026 service changes. I would like to start off a little bit about I always understand that everyone may be familiar with the service we provide at MVTA, just kind of footprint of what we do. Understand that we have 24 fixed routes. We operate express and reverse commute services, local service. We also have on-demand service which is our MVTA Connect followed by our event services which is our to our sporting events, concerts, State Fair, and the Renaissance Festival which I'll talk about in detail a little bit later. Burnsville um being a city that's um very well established, obviously when we came into when when it came into MVTA, we have a number of services that we provide in this in this city. I mean, as you see we have our three express services as well as a number of local local routes. Overall, last year our into this year our service is up 7.8% um express up 10% as well as local services down um a little a point percent, but that's really related to us re-transitioning um some local service that we're going to local routes to micro transit. And we'll talk about the increase in micro transit in a minute. As a whole look at Burnsville um the city of Burnsville ridership um overall from last year there was up from 2024 to 2025, it was up 4.3%. Um our Connect which Burnsville served in our main Connect zone up 37% our route our four fun bus, these are some highlights some of the great services and some of the major increase that we've seen. Our route our four fun bus was up 34% for the city of Burnsville, our route 480 up 17%, our 465 [snorts] 6 and 1/2% and our 447 up 3.1%. >> [snorts] >> Let's talk about a little about about Connect. So, Connect is our micro transit service that we started back in 2019. Um it's always served Burnsville, it's always been original the original zone was Burnsville, Apple Valley, and parts of Savage. Um it's expanded now as you see it's expanded to um um we have in Rosemount, we have an we have an Eagan zone, and we also now have a Prior Lake and Shakopee zone. >> [snorts] >> That is at-base service and it's $3 each way. The great thing about Connect is what we continue to see is just this iteration of individuals needing in our suburban area of door-to-door or curb-to-curb or destination service. What we found is that due to the inaccessibility of sidewalks as well as some developments, traditional fixed route wasn't always the best it wasn't the best mode to provide them with services. Um case in point, we come to Connect service which is kind of what we call a public transit a a public transit alternative to Uber and Lyft. Important to understand that 65% of customers utilize Connect um are going to and from work. 49% say that they didn't have um Connect, they um would have they would not have been able to use Uber and Lyft. But this is really the important part of understanding that cuz there's always been conversations about um public transit versus obviously providing this um at-based um alternative to fixed route to some fixed route service. That 48% of the customers who utilize Connect their annual household income is under 25,000. So, when you think about individuals going five days a week to work back and forth, the average um suburban um Uber or Lyft trip being um anywhere between 20 to $30 each way depending upon the time um depending time of day and the distance that would be unsustainable for a for for annual household income of 25,000. That's why we provide a public transit alternative that we see at at $3 each way. Um important to understand that 47% of our customers are customers of color and 60% of our riders are women. Now, when we first started service back in 2019 and 21, 22, it was about a 50/50 split between men and women, but as you see as it is, they've taken over. So, um I think I hopefully hopefully some men get back on the church, but right now we're at 60%. Um and as we continue to also see this increase of individuals also too um that have disability or consider a long-term health um long-term health um condition. In the very beginning of the service it was one in five, now as you see two which we've um we now have it up up to one in four over 25% of our customers identify that way. Our age band range as you see as you look about 46% of our customers are between 35 and 50 and 54 which kind of really does hit that sweet spot when it comes to obviously individuals who work for going for an employment. Um we have had challenges in the past and we're continuing to make inroads with our with different vehicle types. We're getting those individuals who are under 35 to utilize the service cuz we see those cutaways, those buses, they think it's for the seniors or disabled. They don't realize it's at-base on-demand service for them. That's one of the big things that was for us to get the e-just vehicle, the all electric vehicle which I'll touch on next actually in a couple slides, as well as just experiment with different vehicle types and different promotions that [snorts] Joya and her group does a tremendous job at just to make sure you understand the open to everyone in the public as long as they can utilize the app. Our main zone Connect ridership as I talked about four is up 37% system-wide is up 33%. So, it's important to note that our main zone ridership um there's been heavy usage between Burnsville, Savage, Rosemount, and Apple Valley. Out out passes the overall overall [snorts] system as a whole. Um average daily ridership in our main zone is 389 rides and every time I do this I'm always behind, so we probably have hit 400 by the time um since of this slide was put together. Average [snorts] wait is something we're continuing to tackle, it's about 27 as you 27 minutes, almost 28 minutes. Our goal is always a wait time of 20 minutes or less. Um we know that when we get to 30 minutes and over, we start to see a high number of cancellations. So, what we try to do when we were in this type of were in this type of area as far as um I like to call the yellow not the the red zone. We look to either add new vehicles um change um make some add new vehicles to in order to kind of alleviate and bring that bring that wait time back down. And that's our goal moving forward as well. Event service, do you want to talk about event service, Joya? Cuz this is something you're very good to so well at. [07:15] **Joya:** Yeah, absolutely. So, I know the last time that Matt and I were here, we had a lot of conversations about the different types of services that we provide and like Luther mentioned, our fixed route and our Connect service are definitely, you know, very important to our community, but we also have found that there are a lot of folks in the community that want to get to different events that may have parking limitations or parking costs associated with them that can really inhibit people's ability to enjoy those quality of life experiences. So, as you can see here, we provide service to a few different things. So, State Fair being our by far our largest event. Um if you have not tried taking the bus to State Fair, it is so convenient. You can get dropped off almost right at the gate. Um and it's just $6. You [clears throat] know, and that's round trip. So, it's very, very affordable. It's easy to use and you have access right down the road at the Burnsville Transit Station. And our buses are coming about every 15 minutes. So, it's very regular service and again, very easy to use. Uh we also provide service to the Renaissance Festival from Burnsville, as well as the um the Minnesota UFC matches, Gopher football, Vikings, and then a lot of different concerts. So, we have an updated schedule that's on our website right now at nbta.com with all of the upcoming concerts. Most of them are at like the US Bank Stadium. It's cuz there are so many limited parking options that exist over there and they can get pretty expensive during game day and then concerts. So, there's full schedules there. And then you can see that we have park and rides at Apple Valley, Eagan, Shakopee, and Burnsville that all offer these services. But again, the closest one for you guys is that Burnsville Transit Station just a couple minutes down the road. Um tickets can be purchased on the app. So, it's very easy to use and our customer service operates between 8:00 a.m. and 4:30 p.m. and helps people through that process if anyone has any difficulties as well. We've also seen those services continue to grow. And what we like to talk about is that it's a really good experience for individuals that may not have taken transit before to help ease them into trying the service and really understanding how clean, safe the vehicles are, um it's building that familiarity. [09:20] **Luther Winder:** Also important note, too. There's been There was discussion at the capital this [snorts] year concerning um service providers and event services um that it wasn't considered public transit. It's important to note that all we're doing is providing parity in the communities. When you look at Vikings or you look at um things at US Bank or your Twin Stadium or even are looking at um where the Lions Field, those are all served by pretty much BRTs or by um light rail. There's been heavy infrastructure put there for people in the region order to access those access those places. We make sure as providers that we actually our communities still have access to those as well, too. You shouldn't have to just be in the core to have access or have a car just be able to get to US Bank Stadium or be able to obviously get to Lions Field. And that's what we do. We will provide that service and we'll continue to do so. Sustainability. [snorts] Important to talk about. So, that's that E-Jazz vehicle. Um we have five of those. Um I've talked about those before, so I won't spend a lot of time obviously, you know, talking with highlights of them. But important note that we looked at 2025, you know, we've had them now on the road, you know, for a little over a year now. Um important note that um we almost we saved cuz they're all electric vehicles. They're the first in um the region and one of the first in the nation um from a purpose-built small micro transit vehicle, all electric. And as you see here, almost 3,000 tons of metric tons of CO was saved um last year in 2025 based on using these vehicles. As well as to even look at the equivalent of what that looks like if you're driving a car, how many miles that would be, as well as when you think about obviously how many trees or acres that were saved there, too. Also, what we didn't put in this slide is also saved us money as well. The last count we looked at from our standpoint of electric as far as if we're filling with diesel, um a $60,000 savings we had last year in fuel cost associated with these vehicles. So, not only are they saving the environment, but they're also saving us financially when it comes to fueling cost. So far, they've been extremely well received and durable. Um the biggest two complaints we have is the driver seat, which we'll continue to work on. Um also, too, they're really large door and during the wintertime, that door opens up um pretty substantially and that kind of in Minnesota, [snorts] yeah, you don't necessarily want to open the door too wide cuz it you know, the cold air can maybe creep in a little bit. So, those are programming change to allow the door to open up halfway. Um so, it wouldn't obviously open up the full width and that kind of leave it at that. But so far, our customer and driver feedback have been very, very positive as well as to the battery life has met our conditions in this environment. So, we're pleased with it and we'll hope to invest and buy more in the future, the near future. If I get board approval. And then >> [clears throat] [gasps] >> Um next I want to talk about the high subsidy report. That's um So, this past last session, there was a bill put in to produce a high subsidy report. That report um was produced by the Metropolitan Council. What's some information that was provided by suburban providers, but we didn't actually didn't have the opportunity to see the report or comment on the report before it was shared with the legislation. Um one of the things that we did have some challenges with how the report was constructed um was that it it looked at a snapshot of suburban local service. Primarily, Minnesota Valley and Met Council provide suburban local services. And it had some and it was data from 2023 and 2024. The bulk of those services have already either been eliminated or we've seen increases where they continue to um where they would not be on the report in the future. Unfortunately, the report doesn't highlight um that they've been eliminated. Um nor does it highlight if they were federal pilots like the Ford Route 498 that's been talked about. That's the one with the legend 200 hour subsidy. That was a federally funded route pilot route that was um 80/20 um that we got a 3-year federal grant to provide service in the Golden Triangle area, the same place that 3 billion dollar Southwest light rail is serving. Theoretically, it was supposed to serve those stations, but because they were delayed in our project that was on, we have we operated the service. Um once that once the funding ended, um we terminated service because obviously ridership wasn't there. But uh wasn't this massive amount of regional funds. It was only 20%. And one thing we think about federal funds, they provide you with funding for a 3-year pilot. You needed a 3-year pilot. I think anyone um that understands when you work with federal government, when you turn money back in, you're less likely to get services to get those grants in the future. So, you're going to run it. And also, too, we even we did our we we did our best to try to get ridership because we this is a corridor that the region is investing heavily in, the you know, very heavily in this region in that corridor. Um didn't work for us. We canceled it, but the report makes it look like that that route is still ongoing and it's simply not the case. Um It's also important note that there's sometimes when it comes to core service as well as suburban local service, we don't have the density. So, our costs are going to be a little disproportionately a little bit higher um simply by the lack of density. And that's one of the reasons why we do have challenges with that subsidy with the high subsidy report because it really focuses on ridership, >> [clears throat] >> but it doesn't take out doesn't take out anything [snorts] that we do in order to reduce the cost. Whether it be whether it's federal 80/20 pilot, doesn't show that funds. Nor does it show Nor does it Nor does it calculate in the private investment you got in routes. Like we have routes that we have that we have 100% funded by private employers from a certain leg of it. That report would simply show cost versus ridership, leaving the reader to believe that it's all regional funds. So, it's a challenge that we have. We're continuing to tell the story, talk about it, um communicate it. But we don't have control of the report. Nor do we have control of the messaging. But we do have control obviously to communicate where we're at today and what we're doing. To address it. Another thing that we wanted to make make aware of, just we have a local forward initiative. So, what we've done is we have we have we have this great mind that we were able to recruit from um Utah. Had an opportunity to um see his former CEO and they miss him out in Utah. Um they really do. But we have Eric now, so we're going to do our we're definitely We have a When we we've always done we've always looked at service and our service changes four times a year. And primarily, our driving force for for our suburban local service was making sure that the cost for that service was less than what carpool Transit Link would be. So, a Transit Link average Transit Link trip is $64 a $64 um a trip. We wanted to make sure our suburban local was a lot cheaper than that, cheaper than that. We see about $40 to $35 on average um because if you're going to replace it, you're going to replace it with something that's more expensive and less and more restrictive. Um what Eric has really came in and done is he we're looking at it through these factors, whether it be um employment, uh he's also looking at people with disabilities and at turn density and senior populations. And he has an equation he puts up together as he propensity of people utilizing the service. It's very revolutionary, but one of the only we're the only MC in the country that's um utilizing this particular system that's been developed in-house um to look at service evaluation. And it's showing us some really, really good results to us moving forward. So, happy to continue to share that. We adopted that in 2025 and we're continuing obviously to to kind of um continue to go out and tell the story about that. And we'll hopefully just continue to see I'm continuing to see good results associated with that. Um >> [snorts] >> Last but not least, just want to focus in on our spring 2026 changes. We are looking as as we always do with service changes four times a year. We're looking to transition some of our unproductive local suburban service to connect service. I always want to tell this story too. That I think this is another thing about the report that's so difficult sometimes that the narrative. I got to say, go back to 2023 and realize we had a supply chain issue. That we weren't able you weren't able to even buy vehicles because the chips weren't around. We had the same issue when it related to buses as well, too, in 2022 2023. We could not procure vehicles. So, we had to utilize the vehicles that we had, which were us larger buses for suburban local. Since that's eased starting in 2024 and 2025, we procured more vehicles. And now case in point, we continue to transition from suburban local for some some service that we would like to transition to connect. Um but as it's something we are not weren't aware of, but we were faced with the binary choice. Provide customers with nothing, which then you'd get some put provide customers what we could provide with the funding that we had, and use Joy and her good graces and our team to go out and promote as much as possible until we get the vehicles in order to transition to to connect. And that's what we're doing today. And what we'll continue to do. Also looking to do some combining of combining of routes. Um really really really Thank you, Eric and the team. We're taking our four fund bus and our Route 495 bus that'll be combined in one route, um, giving hourly service and actually costs us less than providing when it was two different with two routes. Um, as well as two we're also looking into reducing redundancies across the regional network. So, that's our goals for 2026. [17:35] **Joya:** So, pertinent to the 4-fund 495, airport service is on that, which we had a discussion about that last year. It's something that people were very excited about and now, starting March 16th, we have airport service on an hourly basis and from Burnsville Transit Station. And again, there is free parking at our station for that, too. [17:55] **Mayor Elizabeth Kautz:** I have a question. Mhm. Yeah. Can I take a Connect to the transit to get on the the 495 and and that one $3 fare will take me through the whole system then? [18:05] **Luther Winder:** Yes. All right. Thank you. >> Yes. And the very in in the beginning of our Connect service, our zones were a lot smaller. So, what we found is the beginning of the service, Connect service, about 50% of customers utilizing it to go from their homes to, um, uh, to our transit stations so they could access our suburban local service or express service, but that was an iteration during COVID. As things have changed, obviously we see more people doing point-to-point, but that's definitely a possibility. [18:35] **Mayor Elizabeth Kautz:** Okay. [18:35] **Luther Winder:** And we do have a number of customers that do that. This is our This is some just some service plans. I've already kind of touched on those. Any questions related to that, please feel free to, um, communicate. Now, I'll ask if you have any questions. Any additional questions? >> Yes, I do. Any So, you you you you presented a very, uh, positive report as to what's going on at MBTA. So, can you elaborate on what's going on at the legislature and what happens to the service if Metro Transit takes it over? Because that's the recommendation that's coming out of committee. And uh, I mean, I didn't understand that this was a real big thing. Of course, there was last year's report, but um, it it it is you you mentioned that, uh, there was a report and it wasn't quite clear. However, uh, according to what I read and you want to tell the story, why wasn't there someone from MBTA, except Mayor uh Hoopa uh, testified about the service? However, there is discrepancy from what I hear from you tonight about the report that was given to the legislature last year. So, can you elaborate for everybody to understand because it appears to me if Metro Transit takes over there's a lot of risk going on here and what happens to the service to the people of Burnsville? You just gave a very positive report in terms of ridership and increases and that's from before COVID. I mean, it's post-COVID. >> Mhm. And, um, The report is during COVID. So, please explain not only to me, but to our community, what's going on here? [20:15] **Luther Winder:** Very good questions. So, just want to take you back. So, last year, at the end of session last year, there were two bills that came during conference committee. Um, one was to eliminate suburban providers, the other was to, um, to reallocate the, um, sales tax that counties received obviously the Metropolitan Council. We knew at that particular time that this was the goal of certain individual in the committee was to transition obviously funds to Met Council from the counties, as well as to also transition the funding the suburban providers have also to Met Council as well. Fast forward, they needed it obviously. So, the report was merely a vehicle and that's why it was communicated in such a way in order to achieve that objective and that goal. Understand that when the report was provided to, um, to, um, to the committee on the very first on the first day, um, even though and Mr. LaValley was a primary target of that particular report, we were not asked to testify for that report. It was simply the Met Council, Charles Carlson, gave up and I think he did at that particular time a decent job talking about the improvements that Met Council had been making cuz they also have routes on that report, but I wasn't called obviously the ability to go up and have that conversation and you're talking about, um, about MBTA. There was not time at the end of that presentation for any testimony cuz myself and Dan were were were in the audience, but time would There was no time to session was over. It was a very last report. They ran the They ran the clock out end of the end of that end of that meeting. Fast forward to, um, when we were having discussion about the vote that was being the vote that vote that was being cast. Um, at that particular time it happened to coincide with Southwest, um, transit day at the Capitol. That's why they had such a large presence, thankfully. On that particular time, each person was given 1 minute in order to testify. There's simply not the ability for us to get in rally resources in 1 minute to testify, for myself to testify, about a report that's been skewed so skewed so fav- negatively in our favor. So, our goal, since you already knew what the objective was going to be, was to allow that to stand and have community and have conversations with our representatives, which we have been doing, as well as going out and talking the message of what we've seen and what what what happens to be. But, there was no Let's be Let's be very frank, very clear. That was not going That was not an objective hearing for us, nor was that going to be a better outcome for us had we went up and and in a minute and tried to communicate that. That's why we're having the conversations today and educating. And the more we have had conversations with the legislators, they do understand. Um, we do feel like at this point that's still the minority, but it's something that we have to we have to just correct the record so people know that's simply not You can skew a report and numbers any way you choose it to be and that's how it was skewed. Um, and it's unfortunate that also, too, people must be warned that the individuals who made the report are also the ones who benefit, um, with the service. Um, but it's something that Not only with that bill, there's another bill out, um, I just wrote it down that we just seen, um, you know, House File 4449, um, which looks to obviously limit, um, highway projects and has Met Council, same some of the same players, um, to limit um uh highway projects. It's also to allow Met Council to do performance standards and also really to obviously take away some of the autonomy that our cities and our counties have. That's a bill that's also being heard and being discussed right now and also funding and also pre-empts funding as well, too. So, it's not just suburban providers that are on to to to trying to reallocate. It's also counties and cities as well, too. Um, and that's just been the theme and it's a handful of legislators that continue to push that and continue to push that. [23:50] **Mayor Elizabeth Kautz:** Mhm. Um, Council Member Schultz and and I'll follow up because it appears to me that there was a bipartisan effort going on here. And I'm at a loss to try and understand. I tried to read what was in the paper about this whole story because it has an effect on our, uh, residents and our business. So, >> [clears throat] >> you know, what is that we need to do? So, uh, and a lot of council members are wanting to comment. Uh, first, Council Member Schultz. [24:15] **Council Member Cara Schulz:** I just so our residents are clear on, um, on what is happening. Uh, so we do have in a committee and it passed committee. Um, and it is a bill to take away our transit in our southern area, which is functioning well and has good ridership and is less expensive and replace it with crap that is more expensive. Um, because they think, oh, well, we we should just we have this really crappy system that people don't ride. So, if we take away other people's transit, we can force them to do this. So, that is what's on the table and so if this is of concern to you that you will end up with something worse and more expensive. So, however you feel about public transit then more expensive should [laughter] be a little indicator there. Um, I I know our reps in the area are, um, you know, they they will work with us on this. Um, but this is this is something to, um, not just contact your immediate reps. Um, this is something that I would definitely contact the governor's office about. This is something to go right to the top, to the governor's office and say, we absolutely do not want this. Kill it. [25:15] **Mayor Elizabeth Kautz:** Okay, Council Member Keely. [25:15] **Council Member Dan Kealey:** Thank you, Madam Mayor, and thank you very much to good friends on the Minnesota Valley, um, leadership team. We have a great team. It's a great organization. Um, I could speak for half an hour on this as I'm deeply involved and have been for years, but I just want to highlight a few things. There was a uh, some interviews recently on Sunday on Bo Schultz and you can, um, search um, his, uh, podcast and he interviewed, uh, Senator Dibble and Representative Koznick from Lakeville. Uh, Koznick intro- introduced the bill in the house. Um, and it's [snorts] interesting to listen to some of the comments like they pick out one route that was referred to with, >> [clears throat] >> uh, by Executive Director Luther that it it is, um, a single test route that had a very high average. So, he actually they cited it as $200 per subsidy. And you know, that's each way, so that's $400 and that's worse than the the Northstar. Uh it was a a pure pilot test that was never uh moved on for obvious reasons, right? The report's 23, 24, so it's extremely outdated. It's right during the COVID era. Everybody had uh higher subsidies because our numbers riding the bus were still down, but they continue to recover. Um and the other the other point is it's interesting to hear anybody from the legislature who hasn't been there very long try and throw out an idea to reverse something that took many years to come to fruition in the late '80s to create these suburban transit providers. And the sole reason that everyone [snorts] was complaining in the entire donut around the Twin Cities, all the suburbs were complaining. They weren't getting adequate service. Um as an opt-out um suburban transit provider, we don't have the ability to print money and run massive deficits like Met Transit does. We actually have to balance our budget. And so, we can't afford to carry high cost routes if if they don't make sense. Um and so, it's it's interesting to hear let's give it all back to Met Transit when they can't run on a budget, they don't report all the numbers. I'll cite the If you look at the report, the lowest subsidized route is light rail. Do you believe that after billions to build it and the cost to maintain it and to support depreciation that it only really costs about $2.75 per rider? No, of course not. They don't count the billions that it cost to build it. Uh otherwise, it would be dramatically higher. So, there's a the model of reporting isn't necessarily wholly truthful. Uh it's very misleading actually when you when you snapshot a point in time. And um there was just really no Nobody on the on the uh committee that has any history that understands why we existed in the first place. Dibble should. I mean, he's been around for a long time. [28:15] **Mayor Elizabeth Kautz:** It's not that he was not on that >> Yeah, >> [clears throat] >> he's in the Senate and he's not he's not He's not carrying your opinion bill. [28:20] **Council Member Dan Kealey:** >> they the people who are on the podcast podcast >> was one of them, but uh Kosnick Dibble Dibble Dibble was very neutral. I he highlighted like, you know, this is a 40-year-old model and maybe we need to look at this and maybe he's a big supporter of uh microtransit and suburb to suburb and the express routes and post-COVID changes in riderships and that kind of stuff. So, he was pretty neutral. He just sort of highlighted that it we need to have a discussion. Um it wasn't it wasn't quite that type of conversation with the representative Kosnick but um you know, there's there's performative politics involved here unfortunately. It's election year. There's uh there's a tons there's an enormous amount of fraud. And so, I think piggybacking on the fraud case, I think he's not the only one who's going to come out with finding some way of spinning a story to say this is government waste when in fact not one of them brought out uh or talked about the benefits of transit which are many. And it it it cuts across economic benefits, [snorts] um you know, poor families who depend who have one or no car who need public transit. Um the fact that the suburbs uh don't have the density, so as Luther pointed out, our average cost is going to be higher. That's just a known fact across the country. We're no different than any other city uh or suburb. And so, the other thing that wasn't brought out is we've known for a few years there are a lot of suburbs being supported sort of by Met Transit who are very unhappy. So, what happened to create us has continued to happen. And there are cities who are very probably regretting that they, you know, back if their folks are still there that they didn't take advantage of the opportunity and and join a suburban opt-out and become a suburban transit um uh member. So, there's there's a lot of things that are going to come to play and I think it's important for us to make sure that all the truth gets out there and I think uh Luther and Matt who's in the audience and Joy are doing a very good job of that and that's going to go on and on. We're going to talk to our local legislators. They are die-hard supporters of suburban transit. They know exactly why we exist and the fact that we exist with a superior service, a superior customer service uh ranking and and level. Um I I heard one comment on that podcast that bothered me and it was sort of a a jealousy uh comment about yeah, they have really nice clean buses out there and coach buses as if that's a bad thing that we actually operate a clean, professional operation that they're jealous of that because they don't live in the suburbs and they're dealing with Met Transit service which is maybe not described that way all the time, right? [30:50] **Mayor Elizabeth Kautz:** Well, if if if it if that comment came from representative Kosnick [30:52] **Council Member Dan Kealey:** >> No, it was Mr. Dibble. Well, it was a it was the one comment that really stuck out in his conversation that I thought was a little out of place, but [30:58] **Mayor Elizabeth Kautz:** >> Anyway, but my my concern is that if um the story needs to be told, then there there's a lot of work that needs to be done right now. Uh or this thing is going to go south very quickly from where I'm sitting and reading what's going on. And because it's a bipartisan effort. [31:12] **Luther Winder:** It is bipartisan in the house, um not in the Senate. Um four authors have dropped off the Senate bill leaving just um Senator Hoffman as the only one author on the Senate bill. There is no um expectation right now. There's no There's that hasn't been scheduled for a hearing in the house and uh I'm sorry, in the Senate. In the house, it was laid over to Ways and Means and there at this time there is no um there's no there's no timeline to have a hearing for there either. Chair Torkelson's the former chair of transportation and he has no desire and no support and actually questions the legitimacy of bringing this bill forward. [31:50] **Mayor Elizabeth Kautz:** >> so what I would like for right now for myself and for the members of our community, not only our residents, but business, is to get updates on what's going on legislatively because right now I don't like what I'm reading and what's happening. So, if it's not going to be circumvented and stories told correctly uh so that we could have a better outcome than what I see this moving towards. The dismantling of something that has been worked on and um been successful and you gave a report on that. It is going to be devastating uh to our communities and um and it's not going to be good. So, I would like an update on a regular basis uh on what's going on legislatively and what can we do? What can we also have our residents understand about what's going on so that they are informed and they can write letters and they can do what is necessary to save our our transit system. [32:38] **Luther Winder:** Great question. On our website, we do have the ability for residents as well as um for customers businesses community organizations, there's a webpage there that they can go on and put their information in and it will generate a support letter. We will send those support letters um to um to the appropriate representative. Um also too, it's also beneficial if anyone reach out and talks to the representative about their need and their support for for transit. It's important to note that even with um Senator Dibble has been an ally in the past, but there's certain concerning statements really does relate to just our nice clean buses. I just want everyone to understand that Met Council also owns the bulk of all the buses in the region. They lease the bus to us. Um we have some new procure, but those big buses, they're their buses. Eventually, we will get ownership of those hopefully in the next couple months, but it's always been that place. They pay for those vehicles. We just do a really good job of a picking the design we want based on community input and then we do a really, really good job of making sure our contractor, because we have a superior team, make sure they're clean and they're accessible for any users in the community use them because that's not something I think Burnsville or any of our communities would tolerate on the roads we don't have. So, when you hear that, it's always been this push-pull about our nice equipment or our buses, it's owned by the council. The only difference is the management of it and we're the management. Just like if you go to Cedar Grove Transit Station as opposed to Eagan Transit Station. [34:10] **Mayor Elizabeth Kautz:** >> needs to be told. Mhm. That's the difference between that product and this product. So, um but thank you for reporting and thank you for um answering the questions and uh for each of the council members to do How come you I don't know. I keep pressing that button and it >> But it's not showing up on me. So, Council Member Gustafson [34:30] **Council Member Dan Gustafson:** >> know. >> [laughter] >> Okay. >> [clears throat] >> Thank you Thank you for the report. It is really good. Connect seems to be one of our fastest growing segments of what we're doing and I understand with this bill that's something that they've already said would go away should they take control of this. Do you keep track of how many people use Connect to go to and from work? I know several employees at Costco use it, so [34:55] **Luther Winder:** 65% of the customers utilize it to go to and from work. 55% [snorts] >> 65% >> 65% >> 65% use it to go to and from work. It's important to note that bill only allows and that's a misnomer about this bill. Even when you look at the savings it talks about it only it's talking about $722,000 in savings over a 2 years. That's not it's not those not those even in the bill count. There's no $50 million that's that's fuzzy math. But um when we Um so yes and it only guarantees only guarantees service for 1 year. After that we our communities would face the same thing that all other suburban communities face. Obviously advocating and and hoping that you know the council would put some of the resources to providing with with with more suburban service. So you're right they would lose um our Connect customers would lose um would lose service. I think some of our express and our local service also use service as well too. Important note that our local suburban service is $2 local. Um our Connect is $3. That Transit Link alternative the base is 350 during peak it's 450 and then there's a 75 cent kicker on top of that per every 15 miles. So that's one of the reason why you know for a number of years customers were complaining about Transit Link service. You got to book that a day in advance. So also that is almost twice that's two that's two and a half times what you do for local suburban and can be up almost twice what you pay for our local Connect service. So our customers would pay more and it would be more restrictive and need to deny a lot more trips than we would ever do than we ever do. Thank you. [36:45] **Mayor Elizabeth Kautz:** Okay. I'm sorry Council member Gustafson it didn't show up on my screen. [clears throat] So anyway I have a witness I keep pressing it. Yeah. >> [laughter] >> [36:55] **Council Member Dan Kealey:** I want to point out one other thing. During the pandemic MVTA kept our park and rides open. Obviously the service is reduced with the reduced ridership. Uh the Kenrick Trail park and ride shut down for 2 and a half years. So all of those riders south of Burnsville had to drive to Apple Valley or Burnsville to catch an express bus into downtown. For 2 and a half years Met Transit just let it sit empty before they finally restarted the service. And I had conversations with a representative that attends the uh I-35 solutions and and pitched why don't we just absorb that in MVTA and take that route over. And he said we're very open to that. And so what staff with in Met Transit would like to see happen and what some legislators would like to see happen doesn't necessarily always match up. [37:35] **Joya:** Dan I think that's a really good point and that's something I think it's important to touch on too is that our planning team has a great relationship with Metro Transit. Like we work collaboratively with them and our team is constantly trying to find ways to reduce duplication of service. And so we do meet with them regularly and have conversations about are there things that make more sense for us to do? Are there things that make more sense for you to do? So it's not like those conversations aren't happening. [38:00] **Mayor Elizabeth Kautz:** You guys should be making the deal. Okay. [clears throat] Well, thank you so much for coming in and giving your report and also to we need to correct the record. And um because I don't want to lose the services uh for our joint powers for MVTA and for any of the other opt-out communities because their riders also depend on it. So thank you so much. Thanks very much. Thank you. Really appreciate it. Okay. Okay. The next item on the agenda is citizens comments. Is there anyone in the audience who wishes to address the council on an item that is not on the printed agenda and not in application form that's going to come before us at a future date? Mrs. Henderson anyone online? [38:45] **Mrs. Henderson (Staff):** No, there isn't. [38:45] **Mayor Elizabeth Kautz:** Okay. Uh we will then move on. The next item is additions to the final agenda and this is for emergency items only. City Manager Lindberg are there any emergency items to come before the body? [38:55] **Gregg Lindberg:** Not from staff, Mayor. Thank you. [38:55] **Mayor Elizabeth Kautz:** May members of the council? Thank you. We will move on and the next item is the consent agenda. The [snorts] consent agenda is a group of items that's considered to be routine and will be enacted by one motion. However, an item on the consent agenda can be removed for a separate discussion and vote. Is there anyone in the audience who wishes an item on the consent agenda to be removed for a separate discussion and vote? Mrs. Henderson anyone online? [39:20] **Mrs. Henderson (Staff):** [No response/None.] [39:20] **Mayor Elizabeth Kautz:** Okay. City Manager Lindberg does staff want to pull anything from [39:25] **Gregg Lindberg:** Not from staff, Mayor. [39:25] **Mayor Elizabeth Kautz:** Members of the council? May I have a motion to adopt the consent agenda, please? [39:30] **Council Member Dan Gustafson:** Do approve. [39:30] **Council Member Dan Kealey:** Second. [39:30] **Mayor Elizabeth Kautz:** You have a motion and a second. All in favor, please say I. I. All opposed say nay. And the motion carries. Uh the next item is our regular agenda and the one item on the regular agenda this evening is the meeting of the Economic Development Authority and I will now recess the Burnsville City Council meeting so the Economic Development Authority meeting can convene. President Gustafson. [39:55] **Dan Gustafson (EDA President):** Thank you, Madam Mayor and good evening. I call the Economic Development Authority meeting to order and would Clerk would please note that all commissioners are present. Item number one are there any additions to the final agenda? Nothing. Seeing none I will move on. Number two is the consent agenda which is the approval of minutes and the resolutions to approve LAHA funded down payment funded down payment assistance policy contract amendment with CEE and EDA spending in support of the housing programs. Is there anyone who wishes an item to be removed from the consent agenda for a separate discussion and vote? Seeing none may I have a motion? [40:35] **Elizabeth Kautz (EDA Commissioner):** So moved. [40:35] **Dan Gustafson (EDA President):** Motion by Commissioner Kauts. I need a second. [40:35] **Cara Schulz (EDA Commissioner):** Second. [40:35] **Dan Gustafson (EDA President):** Second by Commissioner Schultz. All in favor? I. Opposed? And the motion passes. Move on to item three. There are no regular agenda agenda items tonight so there's as there no other business I may I have a motion to adjourn? [40:50] **Cara Schulz (EDA Commissioner):** So moved. [40:50] **Dan Gustafson (EDA President):** Commissioner Schultz motions to adjourn. [40:55] **Vince Workman (EDA Commissioner):** Second. [40:55] **Dan Gustafson (EDA President):** Second by Commissioner Workman. All in favor? I. Opposed nay. Motion passes. We adjourn. Back to you, Madam Mayor. [41:00] **Mayor Elizabeth Kautz:** Thank you. Uh and now I will reconvene the Burnsville City Council meeting and members of the um council there are no other items to come before us this evening and a motion to adjourn is in order. There's a motion and a second. All in favor, please say I. All opposed say nay. And the motion carries. Good night and thank you for being with us.