Now, >> one second. He gives it the thumb. Okay. Now, you go ahead and hit the gavl right there. >> I'm scared. >> Come on. All right. Call the meeting in order. >> I'm Elliot and I'm going to lead the pledge of allegiance. >> All right. Here we go. >> Go ahead. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Good job. Thanks. >> All righty. Roll call, please. >> Council member Nordby, >> here. >> Council member Woods, >> here. >> Council member McKenzie, >> here. >> Council member Schwear, >> here. >> Mayor Mongi, >> here. Thank you so much. May I please have a motion to adopt the agenda? >> I make a motion. >> So move. Council member Swear. >> Second. >> Second. Council member Norby. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> Thank you very much. >> All right. First up's consent agenda. Item A, approve November 18th, 2025 city council meeting minutes. Item B, general claims of $263,886.15. Item C, resolution approving the reappointment of commissioners. Item D, approval of temporary liquor license and charitable gambling permit um with the church and school of St. Peter annual gala February 7th of 2026. Item E, resolution to stagger arts and culture commission terms. And item F, approve the fiber maintenance locate service agreement between the city of North St. Paul and Zo Group LLC. >> Thank you so much. Would anybody like to pull anything at this time? If not, a motion, please. >> So moved. >> So moved. Council member Woods. >> Second. >> Second. Council member McKenzie. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> I. Thank you very much. We'll move on to open meeting open to the public. John Schmall. Just want to thank uh council member Schweer for passing this out. It gives me a few seconds more and probably less. This is what I got as an email. That's the top sheet. That's what a class act uh electric utility does in appreciation for a customer at 50 years nothing from North St. Paul. Wouldn't it be nice that you took a uh kind of lead from Excel and appreciate the there's got to be other people in this city that have been on the roles of the U electric utility for at least 50 years. just a suggestion and I've also there's always a question as to where the standing of the electric utilities is rate is and uh you have to get a comparison and just lucky that my brother happens to be in St. Paul. So, I got an XL bill and it's uh you can take this and you know, you're going to be voting later this month on the uh rate that's going to be charged for the electric utility. And there's absolutely no input that you have for a citizen to make a comment. you don't have a a an open uh for anyone who would like to stand up and say what does this increase or what is the cost for the electricity in North St. Paul does to me as a cost to keep living and keep warm. So, uh, Excel when they, uh, want a rate increase, it's a year process with input from the public and, uh, having all other kinds of, uh, meetings before they do come out with a rate. So, in this case, you know, the figures uh are smoke and mirrors. So you look at the rate uh per kilowatt hours, it's a half a cent less than um XL for this uh September bill. Wow. Hey, half a cent less. The only thing is is the cost the u increase for power it is over twice the amount of XL. So uh you know trying to make a comparison is uh not a lot of fun. Well, you can I uh did my calculations and if you're at all interested to see how we show up against Excel for St. Paul and Excel already has their increase in and I have no idea if there's going to be any increase for uh North St. Paul. That'll be coming up later on. So, just a little bit of information. And for plowing, this was strange this year. Wednesday it could have been plowed. Maplewood next to me on Radits they plowed but North St. Plow didn't plow and there were two inches of snow. I measured it. >> Time's up. John, thanks for your time. You all right? That's the only one I got up here. So, next we're going to go to a public hearing for the tax levy for and budget for 2026. I need to um tell the time for that, right? Need to log in at uh 6:40. So, do we just in general do we have a sign up for that or is it just if anybody has it come up? >> Anybody has any comments? >> Yeah. I'll walk through a a PowerPoint first and then um open it up to the public for any comments and questions. Yep. Um and so this is um our 2026 truth and taxation hearing and um tonight kind of provide some information um and we'll um cover why do property taxes change, property tax in Minnesota, the 26 truth and taxation um notice, preliminary valuation changes, the 2026 levy, 2026 budget, potential property tax impacts, additional information, questions and comments. Um, so why do property taxes change? Uh, because there's changes in market values, um, levies at various jurisdictions, um, debt issuance, special assessments, voter approved referendums, changes in state and federal mandates, changes in aid and revenue from state and federal governments, and state legislative changes. Um what you will see in in our budget is we are not um recommending nor are we u seeking any approval on any rate changes for any of our utilities. Uh that was a goal that we set early in the year and we've stuck by it. So there will be no rate changes in any of our uh utility rates. Um in addition um we do not charge special assessments. Um that is why our levy is up a little bit um higher is to cover infrastructural um needs um in the future. Um and we'll kind of cover that um here too. So property tax in Minnesota uh one of the bigger factors um that drives taxes is your assessed value on your property. Um so that is not done by the city that is done by the county assessor's office. Um the city sets the preliminary levies uh by September. Um and um there's proposed uh property tax notice that are mailed by the county um which uh our residents should have received uh started to uh I think the county started mailing those out about in the middle of November. Um and then we're required to hold a truth and taxation public hearing and then property taxes are finalized for the following year. Um the city will be finalizing um property taxes on December 16th. Um this is what uh the notice looks like. Um and you'll see that there's both a estimated market value and a taxable market value. And it'll also the notice will include the jurisdictions um that are covered. Um, a total property tax bill is not just the city, it's the Ramsey County, it's the city, it's the school district in which you live in. It's Met Council's um special taxing districts and then it can be other um taxing districts um that are not isolated in those four. In other words, it can be a watershed. Um, it can be um uh can be an HRA um can be included into that. As you see here that there's both the estimated market value and taxable market value. The actual taxable market value is what the property tax is actually um calculated off of. Um and you'll see that from the estimated market value um in a residential property to um the taxable market value, there's an exclusion, a homestead market exclusion. And this is how that market uh exclusion is calculated. It's dictated by uh the Minnesota state statute. And you take the value um and it's 40% of the property value up to 95%. So the max max maximum exclusion can be $38,000 and it's then phased out all the way up to if a property hits $517,200 there's no longer any exclusion. So for the example of the notice that I had um previously shown where in 2025 there was a $35,000 uh market uh taxable uh market value to 313. there was an increase of 800 8,700 or a 2.85% increase. Um so it would have ended up resulting in about a 4% um tax uh reduction in the in the in the bill. Uh this breaking down the truth and taxation notice and again I'm using the same um proposed tax um all the way throughout this presentation. You're seeing that even though the total property tax on this bill went up 6.62%, the Ramsey County portion of it increased 9.96%, the city increased 7.35, the school district increased 2.77. Um the school district, if a referendum would have been passed, still would not have included this um on their um on this notice um because the the uh notices were prepared before the referendum um had gone um up for voters. And then uh the metropolitan special taxing districts increased 2.96% and the other um special taxing districts increased 39%. The overall result impact for this um resident um is 6.62%. If we look at the distribution of the tax of a tax dollar that's collected from property tax um just shy of 35% goes to Ramsey County, 32% goes to the city of North St. Paul, 30% goes to the school district and all others uh amount to about 3%. uh kind of looking at market values and change. Um market values the last two years have really quieted down. Um the on a medium value home um the uh market value increased 2.4 um from for payable 2026 last year was 1.5. Prior years we saw some really um bigger increases of 9.2 2 and then a 15.5 and there were even some bigger ones in prior years to that um right after um co um the preliminary market value increases only 3.9% for payable 2026 and you can see it's a 6 and 25 7.7 in payable 24 and 17.7 in payable 23 again things have have drastically flattened out as far as values um increasing doesn't mean that it's for every home. Um, every home is valued a little bit differently. Um, and that's again is the assessor's office, Ramsey County Assessor's Office. But you can have um homes that will see significant increases while others are staying relatively flat. Um, all of that will have a significant impact on the overall property tax um liability that a resident will see. So this is kind of just a chart of kind of since 2017 of how that median value has um changed and you can see again um once we hit into 22 to 23 there's significant increase um from 22 to 23 23 to 24 and then you see the last two years have really flattened out and again our overall uh for the city the estimated market value again kind of mirroring the same thing. We saw some really big increases. We're really flattening out now in the in the past two years. Coming down to our levy, um the city's total levy, which includes the general fund debt, street maintenance, park facilities, HA, and EDA levies, um is increasing 8%. Um that's a a total dollar amount of $638,771 increase from 2025. If we look at a comparison of proposed levy increases um for the cities and townships that are within Ramsey County, you can see that North St. Paul um is towards the left hand side or the lower side. Uh the range goes from a 3.88% all the way up to 18.32%. The this will break down dollar-wise of the components of our budget. And again, that city is made up of five different components. The general fund and the general fund went up just shy of $95,000. The street maintenance um component that we're levying for infrastructure um went up 54,000. parks um again for park infrastructure went up $76,000 for asset preservation which is taking care of our facilities um is uh which have not been done. We have a number of 20 plus year facilities um is going up 218,000 and then debt we issued a debt earlier this year um to cover the 2025 street and reconstruction project. Um the levy component of it increased to $194,000. That makes up the full $6 38,000 levy increase. Uh HR and EDA are remaining the same and they have remained the same for a number of years. Um this is kind of a breakdown of our debt. Um and you can see the the ad the real ad to it is again that 2025A which is the um bonds that were issued for the 2025 street and uh utility reconstruction project. Uh H and EDA levies are staying the same as 2025. And this will show you kind of the breakdown of our our general fund budget. Um from a revenue side you can see we have a quite a significant dependency on ad valerum taxes which are property taxes. So we're almost at 58% of reliance on property taxes. The other big component to that is intergovernmental um which makes up a little over 21%. Um the biggest component of that uh $2.1 million of intergovernmental is what is called local government aid which makes up about $1.6 $6 million um of that component. From an expenditure standpoint, um our personnel costs in our general fund uh make up 69%. Um and by and it's followed by um contractual services which equals 25%. Uh the contractual services are for where you see for legal fees um for our uh are we um have a engineer um that we contract out instead of in in-house service and then also for um code um inspections for building inspections. These are the numbers that support all of those that are in the graph. uh kind of breaking it out by uh department, kind of a little different look on the expenditure side. And you're going to see the the two biggest components to this are police and fire and code enforcement. Police makes up 46 or 47% um of our general fund budget. Um fire and code enforcement um just shy of 16%. And you combine those two together, you're you're seeing that, you know, 73% of our general fund budget, um our levy budget is made up of public safety components to it. Again, this slide will show you the numbers that um back up um that um graph that you just saw. This is produced by Ramsey County and it and it kind of shows what are some of the potential um property tax impacts um based upon uh the proposed taxes. And if we look for the city of North St. Paul, we have a total number of parcels of um just shy of 3,800. Um there should be about uh 370 that'll see a decrease or a 0%. The majority of people will see a 0 to 10% um increase in their property taxes. um followed by um about a thousand that'll see 10 to 20%. And then there will be a a number um 174 that'll see 20 to 30% and then you'll see some that'll see more than 30% um increase. Anybody who's seeing a 20 to 30% increase is going to be is having to to have a significant increase in their market values to generate that type of increase. numbers on the screen. >> There is a copy in the back if you want to >> be gone. >> It's in that binder. >> That's the council packet in that binder. It would have been nice for us to follow along with other uh you can see a little bit better. Percent of of change decrease or 0%'s first column. Second column 0 to 10, 10 to 20, 20 to 30 or 30% or more. uh some different uh information for uh residents. Um again, valuations, anything that has to do with property classifications, valuations really need to be directed to Ramsey County. Um and there's the number for Ramsey County Assessor's Office. um and they can um answer any questions that you may have regarding that. Um there's also some um programs that can help reduce property tax. There's a senior citizen tax um property tax deferral. Again, the numbers provided or the website um that uh a resident um who may qualify for that can can get in contact with. And then also just kind of some reminders of the homestead deadlines and exclusion programs. Homestead applications if your property is not homesteaded um are due by December 31st of 2025 and that would be then in effect for the um payroll of 2027. Um Minnesota property tax refund um again there's a website uh for the at the state of Minnesota um they need to be filed by August 15th. There's special homesite classifications for blind or disabled persons and there's also a market value exclusion for disabled veterans. So, there's some information um that uh that is there if you uh go out to those various websites. Um with that um I'll take any questions or comments that uh city council u may have at this point and then we'll open it up to um the public for any comments or questions that they have. >> I'd like to add just one thing. All of this information is in our council packet that's located on our website northpaul.org under government and agenda meeting agendas and minutes under our date. So you'll be able to pull that information too. >> I know we discussed this in workshop so we kind of got where we were as far as that. Is there anybody else after hearing again has any questions? >> Not at the same. Okay. >> Oh, thank you, Dan. >> Okay. Thanks, Dan. >> Open it up. >> Yep. >> Republic. >> Anybody like to come forward >> at this time? Come on, Sue. >> So, springboard, 257313th Avenue. And I did not come here expecting to say a word, but here I am. And the only reason I am I I don't understand these numbers. It means very little to me. But I am very very passionate about our parks. It is very important to any city to have parks. It's the health of the community for the health of the community. And I have heard rumors that there is a chance that some of our park money might be taken away. Am I right or am I wrong? Is that >> No. >> No. >> Oh, good. So, maybe I don't even have to say a thing, but I'm just want to impress upon you. It is very important to have parks. It's it's a equalizer. So maybe I'm preaching to the choir here, but but I just felt impelled compelled to say that because I had heard this rumor and it was making me nervous and um my I I cannot die until Mcnite is done. >> I cannot. So um we it's important to do that. So okay, >> anything else? >> Thank you, Sue. >> Appreciate it. >> Anybody else? >> Yeah. Hi, I'm Ingred Kohler. I'm on the parks commission. Um I I talked to Sue earlier today because Sue was on the com commission before. Um and I knew she felt passionately about Mcnite and I think the the the only thing I would add to what you said is that um Mcnite is a is a a multi-phase project that we're interested in in in doing and it it is an incredibly visible park. It it is uh a lot of people come from other communities to play on the ball fields and we just wanted to make sure Mcnite got some some love. We we we have a lot of great parks in um in our city. We we love them. Um but we we haven't really done much for Mcnite and I when I served alongside with Sue, I know that Mcnite was kind of a thorn in her side like why aren't we working on this park? So that's why I I called Sue today just to say I I and and I am like Sue. I I'm not going to pretend to understand the budget um or or really many of these numbers. Um so I'm speaking very generally on behalf of the parks commission just saying um we uh we feel strongly that the parks do help our community in in a very fundamental way. Um, and I think that at, you know, at one point I was a young um, person looking for a a home for my family. Um, and I I when I look at a community and I have young children, I want to check out the parks. I want to check out the the public spaces. Um, and that's important. Um, so I've used up plenty of time. So, thank you. Sue, do you have anything to add? >> No. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. just a quick that we we're discussing when it comes to parks and of course budgets come in with it. So that's where we're just trying to figure out we know how much money you know as tax dollars and we're always trying to figure out what projects and how we can stretch as much as we can because some of the things when it came up there was multi-million dollars to do some of the things and the tax dollars isn't there. So we just have to understand and be able to to be able to look at it and see where we can do it. But Mcnitefield's always been on the radar. Thank you. Anybody else? Come on up. Hi there. Uh Pete Drake, 2254 Aerial Street North, very western border of North St. Paul. um very aware that you do not set property um the valuations uh for property that that's done at the county level by the assessors. Um, but just for some context to um the struggle that I think people are going through, uh, in 7 years since 2019, my property taxes have gone up or my valuation has gone up 73%. >> Wow. >> Um, this year it went up 14.4%. Last year 10.8%. So, call it 14 and 11. So, compared to the chart on the the board that said they're basically flat, I'm sure when averaged across all the properties, I'm sure you're correct about that, but that's not true for all of us. >> Mhm. >> Um 73% I compare what I've been paying in taxes to North St. Paul and my since 2019 my taxes have gone up 89.4%. Um that's that's nearly double in 7 years. That's a lot. Um the real reason I'm here, I think the part that applies to North St. Paul in particular is the uh tax valuation or the assessment increase percentage uh for my property doesn't match the percent increase in the north St. Paul taxes. Maybe there's a bigger formula for that. But instead of being assessed the what is it roughly 8% um I'm being assessed by North St. Paul um 18.8% increase. Um my property went up um according to uh taxes payable um 13%. So that's a that's a 5.8 8% difference. That's roughly 50% more in taxes and I can't account for it on my tax statement. I know that I could probably call someone and talk that through type of thing, but I thought it would be important to appear here and just say that it's it's not transparent. I don't understand. It uh produces a lot of uh consternation. I've talked with others of my neighbors. they have the same issues. Um if it it would make sense that our um our taxes would go up according to those percentages. So I I was wondering um how how does a person deal with that um the difference in the numbers? >> That's a it's a very good question. So, property taxes is in some ways very simple and in some ways very complex. Um, so I could sit down and show you how each even though I'm not the one who calculated, how each and every one of those was calculated. Um, the percentages I I understand how you're looking at it. You're looking at if my market value went up this percentage, why didn't my property taxes go up the same percentage? It's not necessarily going to be linear in that in that sense of the way, but I could definitely sit down and show you how they're calculated. Um, and we could prove out um that component um to it. Um, but there's a lot of different factors that in, you know, that are included into that. So, you're seeing >> and to be clear, I'm not looking at all I'm not confusing all the different lines. Yep. I'm just looking at North St. Paul. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But you're going to see that same type of relationship on on the Ramsey County. If you aggregate if you take Ramsey County as an aggregate, it will not match up that same way. >> Yeah, >> that's what I'm saying because it's deeper into the calculation um to it. Yeah. But I, you know, you know, my I'm officed here. Um any day that you would like to come in, we could definitely make an appointment and walk through it. I'd be more than glad to help you. FYI, back in the late 90s, I actually was in Ramsey County and did the property tax calculations. So, I I can walk you through it pretty quick. >> Is there a reason that that's not available to an individual property owner to make sense of it for themselves? >> To make sense of it, I there's so many different components to it that to understand it. I don't know if it is. I know Ramsey County does a very nice job. They have a tax calculator that's available online. They have uh the current tax rates. They have all the prior tax rates. They have all the values. They have a lot of information that's out there and I think it goes back to maybe even 10 years. Um, so there's a lot of information. That's where I could sit down with you and kind of give you just the quick overview of how to calculate it and you'd be able to do it in no time. Um, but yeah, the percentages won't line up on onto that. Um, you know, I think if everything had stayed flat, um, with an 8% increase from the city, you probably would have seen somewhere about a I'm going to say 5 to 6% increase. So then if you have a market value increasing 13%, you probably are going to see a jump up 18 to 19% on the North St. Paul line. >> Yeah. Doesn't >> doesn't make sense. >> Doesn't make sense. Doesn't it make sense from the sales in the area? Um, and we have to show up in tax court to to fight that. That is extremely frustrating. >> At this point, you have a tax court, but every every year the assessor's office has an open book um and that you can meet with an assessor and go through the valuations and they should be able to supply with you or supply to you comps um of how they evaluated and how they came up with your um thing. Yeah. At the end of the day, if it if they don't change it at that point in time, you end up having to go to a tax court and usually you don't see too many residentials doing that, unfortunately. But yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> Yeah. Um bottom line is uh this puts my wife and me in a situation of just saying we just can't afford to live here. We need to move further out. That's hard. Mhm. >> I'd like to stay in North St. Paul. >> How many years you been here? >> I've lived here since 2004. >> So 23 years. 24 years. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Drake. >> You come on up, sir. My name my name is Michael Walt, 2661 Eldridge Avenue East, and I'm a 44 year resident, so I've been here a while, >> although some people don't still consider me an outsider. >> Uh, I have I have two questions. When you say the mean value is 310,000 for the homes, I mean, where does that really sit? So, if like somebody's at 450, are they like really at the high end or are they are they just barely above the median? You know, how what's the what's kind of like the blocks that those appear in? >> All of that information is supplied by the assessor's office of Ramsey County. So, they're the ones who are setting the median and and you know the definition of the median. >> So, that's the median for North St. Paul. >> That's the median for North St. Paul is 310. >> But you don't know what the spread is in North St. Paul. >> I don't off the top. No, I don't. No. >> Okay. >> The second question is relates to the budget and it relates to I know in the last year you were talking about offering some of the businesses like 20 grand a piece to spruce up their storefronts which we probably needed. You know it's a pretty sad some of the the stores. One of the comments I would I was I was going to make a while back but it didn't is that some of the stone that they've put on the front of these buildings is just rotting away and they're not even 20 years old. you know, yet you look at some of the buildings that have been there 50, 60, 70, 80 years, and that brick is still pretty good. So, if you're going to give money away, make sure that they do it in in non-porous materials so that it show stays rather than just, you know, just goes away in like 15, 20 years. In fact, there's a lot of stuff along uh South Avenue where the county, you know, put some of the retaining walls and those are all broken down because they're porous. >> So, that's all I have to say. Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> So, just to be clear on the the 310, half are lower and half are more when it comes to the value as far as where we're we're at. So, so we do have some that are very quite a bit higher and some that are quite a bit lower. That's part of our lower middle income. So, thank you for coming up. Anybody else where we're open? >> Yes, sir. John Schmall, 2750 Chisum Avenue. I used to attend all the budget meetings. I would not miss A1. But in this last year, we had this instance of the uh park dedication fee that wasn't paid and it had to come out of the skin of the uh city of North St. Paul when I should have been a developer because of a disagreement or whatever it was and that was $80ome,000 and Sue you can thank me for finding that and bringing it to their attention and so the park dedication fee got $8ome,000 because of me anyway. And then we had this fiasco of the consultant for the white elephant, $9ome,000. And I go, my god. Uh, I went to budget meetings and they were down to a gnat's eyelash about what the money was going to be needed and the taxes and the rate and the whatever. And there was no problem. We found $80ome,000 to be backfill the park dedication fee. We had $9ome,000 to go on a consultant which was a waste of time. The outcome was the same. We can't do it. We don't have enough money for that white elephant. It just isn't enough money in the taxpayers's pocket to pay it. But I can't imagine it. Where did the money come from? Is that kind of money built into this budget? a slush fund of some kind of situation that there's a line item contingency fund. Yeah, I won't call it slush fund. I'll call it a contingency fund because you came up with $170,000 in the last year out of god knows where. Anyway, that's and I will never again attend another budget meeting because I really don't understand where you get this money when things say, "Oh, we need to do this. Son of a gun." Yeah, we got money. Anyway, I would suggest uh uh going to uh the open book. I've been to the open book. The the assessors aren't, you know, gremlins or whatever. They're nice guys, nice women. And uh I was able to convince them that u the size of my deck was not the size that they had used for their calculations and that the overhang over my front door is not a porch, it's an overhang. So uh they do take uh input and change. In both instances, my deck was smaller than they said it was. And my overhang is just the damn overhang of the roof. It's not a porch. There's nothing there that you could call a porch. But uh anyway, good uh program just to attend it. You It's going to be for next year, not this year. But uh go see him. >> Was that last year, John? >> What? >> That you attended >> the what? The >> open book. >> The open book. the the open book. Yes, it was a year pre previous. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you for that. >> Oh, all right. >> Welcome. >> Evening. I'm uh Mark Zadney. I live at 26417th Avenue. Only been a resident here for about a year and a half. Um and I'll be honest, I got some sticker shock when I saw the property tax increase. um my city portion is going up uh 27% almost. So I'm in that one of those farther to the right brackets. And my question is related to that breakdown uh how is that breakdown determine is that the county determining oh these number of houses are going to see this increase these will see a lesser increase. These will see is that determined by the county sir I I'm assuming >> yes that was yes that was prepared by Ramsey County. Okay. All right. I was curious about that. Um, thank you. Um, I think that was the main question I had. Um, but that does seem to like that puts an inordinate burden. I mean, almost a 30%. So, the county, my county portion is going up 20 almost 30%, 29.7%. My estimated market value went up less than 19%. My taxable market value went up 22%. There's that disconnect >> and it is it's like I'm trying to rationalize this >> seeing am I going to be am I going to see a commensurate increase in you know services and >> um it's kind of hard to imagine that and then two like my income is not going up 26 I wish it was >> uh but it's just a lot to swallow um I appreciate your time and I appreciate your answer um I may ask for one of those sessions where you can go >> Sure bit by bit because it's confusing and I'll be honest It's like the market value. I I've been a homeowner for I don't know since I was in my early 20s. It seems totally disconnected to the true market value. And so it seems like there must be some kind of voodoo they're using on the back end. Like are they determining the budget first and then back calculating the market value? >> No, they're not supposed to because usually well the values are produced as of January 2nd. >> Okay. So in 2025, January 2nd of 2025, those are used for payable 2026. So that's the values that are showing. The only adjustments that end up getting made are anything that would come from an open book meeting um because there's still valuation changes that they can make or if there was a court petition and a value got changed. Those are the only changes that would end up being made and then reflected um at the time that they do the uh property tax notice. >> Okay. All right. Okay. Thank you. That's all I have. Thank you. >> Thanks. >> Thank you. I have a question now that we brought that up too as far as after you you know a year and a half he said he you've been there. I had a friend too that up in Hugo where the 7,000 and the next year it jumped up. Is there something where when you're new they recalculate any different as far as if a property's been sold? Is is there if you've been there so many years is there a different increment then do they do like an adjustment after a property sold as far as um value or because I know when I bought my house in 2012 the next year afterwards it it bumped up more than I I thought but after that it leveled out. >> I I can't answer that 100% from the assessor standpoint. it it does seem to be some sort of cor correlation between when a property goes on sale that usually within a year or two that there's a new evaluation that's done on that um part to it. I do know that you know when when we saw the big spikes following CO um that you would see regions or areas seeing significant increases. I think by statute Ramsey County has to do things on a courtal basis. In other words, they have to do all properties once every four years. Um they have to, you know, do the evaluation and again they should be generating it by um uh market comparables um which is sales and so sales we all know just right after you know in the recent years sales were people were >> buying houses at um 10 20 30% over ask. Um, so then those comps are then all a sudden going to hit everybody into a whole entire area. Um, because they use CAM systems and and they'll just generate that and then boom, everybody's seeing that big significant increase. But yes, I believe a sale does probably trigger something >> um within a year or two that >> bad luck of the draw. If it's the four years and it's been three consecutive big years, then you're nailed. But then if you didn't get that, then it's starting to level out again. So >> and you're and you're and you're seeing by the comments some of these val you know the these changes. So you know you know we have an you say who we have an employee here in the city who lives within the city. They actually saw a property track uh property tax decrease because their value actually decrease. So they're on that whole opposite side of the spectrum. >> It's a luck of the reevaluation. how how they come up with I I mean those are really good questions of that need to be asked and but the assessor is the one who has to answer those pieces to it. >> We appreciate tapping your former knowledge knowledge of Ramsey County. I know it can put you on a spot but thank you for sharing that with us and being able to do that. >> Lucky having you >> in our midst here and for the two residents uh that had the percentage I highly recommend um you sit down with Dan if you can find the time. Um we are lucky to have him here and he's a great resource. Um none of us, you know, like the taxes going up, but he can at least understand help you understand why and and where the numbers came from. >> Yeah. >> Well, this year my tax only went up 2%, but mine gone up for the last four years, but this year I've leveled out down to 2%. So it will probably level off here pretty soon. Yeah, we're all in the thick of it together. There's no tax exempt for us sitting up here. So, I had the two years ago was my big one, too. So, well, thanks everybody. If there's anybody else, if not, we appreciate you coming out tonight for that. So, thank you so much. >> There's no business actions. >> Close that portion. >> Yep. Oh, that's right. I got to do the time. Sorry. 7:21 close the public meeting. Thank you for the reminder. Reports. All right, there's no city business action items this evening. So, we'll move on to reports for the city manager and departments uh from our staff meeting today. Uh electric department been doing some cleanup after every snowfall. They kind of clear around the more major equipment around town. Um they did have a few trees down to caused some issues, broke a pole and brought some wires down. Uh they're getting holiday lights up out there. Um hope I think they were supposed to finish that up today and have the lights burning. So, bring some Christmas cheer down. Um they did have one position that was open. They did go through the uh hiring process and they did hire a young man for an apprentice that should be starting here in a couple weeks. So on December 15th, um they're also at the end of the year working on their inventory uh for the auditors and doing some updates from the construction that that happened this summer with their mapping. Uh community development has been busy. We're working on the uh trash RFP or the solid waste. So, we'll be that went back to um the company that uh takes care of that at no charge through Ramsey County. That's back in their hands for the final gober and then we'll bring that to you guys at the next council meeting. Um and also they're working on a couple of ordinances uh one to do with the number of pets um homes can have and uh also some trailer ordinances updates that we're going to have coming forward. uh communications been they're working with uh WSV's got some letters put together for us that they're going to be going out uh about the uh service line um and doing the inspections of what we have out there. Um >> they have uh one more event for the Holly Jolly night which is this coming Friday at Casey Lake Park. um finance courseman working on uh truth and taxation and prepping all the meetings and then they'll be working on clearing uh or wrapping up uh the end of the year for preparations for the uh budget and then working with getting the auditors uh ready to go. Um police had really good outcome with their shop with the cop this year. They raised uh I believe over $10,000. So um it'll be a nice event. they were able to spread that out to more families for that and uh so that's great for them, great program. Uh public works of course um they've been working on the first snowfall that came out this year. Uh went pretty good. No damage to vehicles or anything like that. So um keeping up with the student built house. So the basement's been poured. Um that will be a twin home. Uh the uh it was back build today after um waterproofing the basement walls and putting the insulation around it. Had an unfortunate event of them somebody starting the porta potty on fire there. So getting the new one in for them. Um and they're working on getting out the uh ice rinks and flooding them already. So we'll have three of them out three different parks uh Northwood, KBY, and Casey Lake. Um, and uh, we're still going to have the polar park and the update on the playground equipment out there. That's supposed to still happen yet this year. So, they got pushed off a few times. Fire department's been working through their agility testing, which they have in November, and they're finishing up now. And, uh, they got four new recruits that are still um, going through the education process. Um, and also, uh, Ken and I met with, uh, Mindot when they first put up the Margaret Street Bridge. Um, when they redid highway 36, we had asked to put, you know, some city of North St. Paul on it, and that was not in their policy at the time, but since then, they've changed that. So, we're putting together some, uh, pictures you guys to look at on how we want to do it. Maybe putting the emblem up there and, uh, city of St. Paul on it. So, uh, we'll have that coming forward at a later date, but that's it. >> Thanks. I mean, went by Eden Prairie Chaz, I call you every time and go, "How come they got a sign? >> How come they got a sign and we don't?" So, thank you for following up on that. >> Appreciate it. All right. Reports from council commissions. >> Um, I was able to attend the opening of the new b the new bakery in North St. Paul again and the mayor was also there with me. And um we had uh able to taste some of their wares and goods and very good. It's a good place to go and get some good treats to get. >> We were we're built for testing bas >> I think. So yeah, >> they were got happy when they saw us walk in. >> Oh yeah. >> It's right on the south side um of seventh. What would be another? >> Right next to Sandy Sewing. Right. No right next to Sandy Sandy. sewing den. There's a driveway in between the bakery and Sandy's >> between Charles and Margaret. >> Y >> used to be the old Max, wasn't it, at one time? Was that >> No, no, no. That was the old uh Corland liquor. No, not Coral. Uh, >> sorry. >> North, was it owned by Franny Beast? Yeah, that was a long time ago for me. >> It was good. It was very good. Very good. >> Good family. Um, they live in West St. Paul. They started their business here. They're really excited to be in North St. Paul. >> Nice family. Oh, grandma was there, mom, dad, kids, everybody was there. So, it was a great one. >> Would you like to do for commissions? And I didn't get updates or anything. >> Thank you. You're welcome. >> Um, parks and ramad uh gosh, two weeks ago in the meeting was pretty passionate regarding the, um, workshop and the budget and, um, Ken was there. We went over just what everything looked like. We're confident that uh Dan I know Dan presented and I know that sometimes you can't shoot the messenger. Um but we're I would say that we're confident and we're in the right direction that parks will continue to be where we're at. We need to find the proper funding and plan what is for our future. Um it was a shock when we heard that what we're not going to have any money or we're going to have money taken away. So Sue, thank you for coming up tonight. Um but just keep in mind we're very passionate. Parks is very passionate about where they are and um building their budget and how much it's taken them to get to where they are today. >> So >> sounds good. >> Okay, >> you're good. >> All right, we're good. We don't have another meeting till January. >> That's right. Park. Yes. >> Oh. Uh, Arts and Culture Commission. Uh, we've Are >> you done? >> I was looking at the EDA, but go ahead. >> Uh, Arts and Culture Commission. Uh, we've got our next meeting tomorrow night. U, we also have an interview for a new commissioner um as well and have been working on some process planning. uh just trying to figure out like what the process is for reviewing and approving some of the projects that we want to do. So, making sure that it's formalized. So, >> great. Appreciate it. >> Uh the planning commission meets uh uh this coming Thursday in this chamber. Um and one of the things on the agenda is there's going to be recognition for outgoing commissioner um Jim Rothy. So, um wonderful man and and some great service. So, if you want to come wish him well, I encourage you to do so. >> Also, we have our EDA next Tuesday, 4 o'clock here in the chambers. >> Great. >> Anybody have any general business? >> Yes, I do um want to bring it to the table that uh we are up for uh evaluation for our city manager. So, I would like to request a performance evaluation for January. um we do it, we've done it annually. So, um I'd like to request that and then um I'd like to request in the beginning of the year uh to re-evaluate what's going on with the community center and what are we doing? What are the plans? So, >> all right, >> that's it. >> Thank you. >> Anybody else? >> Um I would just say this coming Friday night is Holly Jolly night out at Casey Lake Park. So, make sure you make your way out there. Um there will be a bonfire, a movie, popcorn, all kinds of stuff going on. Just way good way to kick off the holiday season. And then Saturday is the holiday hop downtown. So get down and support small businesses in North St. Paul. >> Long as I don't have to hop, I'm in. >> Yep. >> No hopping. >> No hopping. Okay. >> Holiday walk. >> There we go. I'm in then. Anything, sir? >> Uh again, I would just like to say how proud I am of one of our residents, um Rachel Thompson, for doing the North St. Paul Christmas Tree Project. Um, and I encourage everyone to check it out. Um, it's just an awesome awesome project. >> Can you give more information about that just for our residents? >> Yep. Uh, so what she does is she finds um local families that are in need um interviews them personally and puts tags on the Christmas tree um for um their wants and needs outside of her house. Then um people can come by, pull a tag off the Christmas tree, um and then we give them to her and then she presents them all to local families in need and and they're all ones that she's personally um invested in and interviewed. So it it's local community helping local community. >> Fantastic. Thank you for the explanation. >> That's very nice. Appreciate that. Two things for us. So one is that um our student build home. Thank you for the update on that. But uh we used two pieces of property the last two years that we already owned. So we didn't have to purchase any properties. But now uh for the next round we we need a property. So if anybody knows of anybody who's you know if there's a spot where a house maybe needs to be removed or if there's a lot where somebody wants to split, if there's anything that anybody can think of for our next student build home, I would like to just get that out there so we can start uh working. We had a there was one that was going to go into for an auction, but uh at the very end it didn't go. So, we're still on the hunt. So, if anybody knows that, that'd be great. And just another season has started. We have snow removal. We have different things happening. And uh just want to talk to, you know, just mention to, you know, people as far as the temperament. And you know, we've had some really harsh voicemails lately for as the council, as public works, as as all of us. So, there's, you know, there's quite a bit of profanity in some of them. And there's just things that uh don't go over well as far as that as far as how we treat people. So, just to have that out there for people if they're talking to people, it'd be great just to, you know, we'll listen, we're here, but or we don't need to be treated like that. So just a normal just the normal d etiquette we used to have before we lost it about four or five years ago. So we could try to get back to that as a as a city. We're all up here you know doing volunt not volunteer but a stipen but you know we work hard and so does the the employees and I just if we can just have a civil tongue it would really be nice. I'm sorry. Is that route related to like >> just in general as the season change, people don't get aren't happy with different things. It's just as as as things happen, we get, you know, people get upset by things. Sometimes it's grass in the summer. It's it's not just that. It's just one more reminder of that, you know, we're residents together and it's some of them were were really awful as far as to how how we're treated on their voicemail. So, I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but just to know that it it's it's difficult for for us as a group to, you know, have to go through some of those. So, I appreciate that. Is there anything else? >> No. >> Lawyer, you didn't do a thing this today. >> And thank God for that. >> All righty. Can I call for a German? >> Some moved. >> So moved. Council member Schwar. >> Second. >> Second. Council member Norby. All those in favor say I. >> I. I December 16th is our next meeting. Thank you everyone. >> Thank you very much.