all right Madame vice mayor if you'd like to call the meeting to order you're welcome to do so thank you um good morning uh good afternoon everyone welcome uh to the city council chambers um today we're having a joint meeting with the um Reno City Charter committee and the Reno city council and um since uh there's two separate bodies each is going to potentially take separate action on each of the items um Madame clerk um I don't know I thought we did our roll call first but um let's do the pledge and let me ask Margo pesovic to lead us in the pledge to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all all right thanks Margo all right and Madam clerk will you call the role for both bodies please thank you Madame vice mayor calling role for the concurrent special meeting of the Reno city council and Reno City Charter committee we'll start with our council members council member breus absent at this time dur here Martinez here Ebert present Taylor here Reese here shivi here we do have a quorum of the Reno city council moving on to our Reno City Charter committee members chair Brown pres Vice chair green pres pipitone absent at this time Marshall absent at this time Shin absent at this time con here piskov opferman Baron here Clifton absent at this time Coleman here lson absent at this time Hoover Uh chair Brown you do have a quorum of the Reno City Charter committee all right thank you so much Madam Clerk and if you could please call uh the public comment and then I think you have a disclosure to read I do thank you uh Madame vice mayor our first item today is General public comment members of the public may hear observe and provide public comment virtually by registering through the following link which can be found on reno.gov forward SL meetings https colon SL SL l i n KS period re n o period g oov slci t y c h a r t e r 07- 29-24 it should be noted for those in the audience that comments are to be addressed to the mayor and Council as a whole comments heard under this item will be limited to 3 minutes per person and may pertain to matters both on and off the council's agenda Council may not take action upon any matter not agendized on today's agenda when you're called on for public comment please state your name for the record and begin speaking the timer will begin when you say your name and you will be afforded 3 minutes for those participating in change MERS in accordance with Council rules 6.3.1 one while in this room please be respectful disrupted behavior from audience members like clapping yelling whistling Etc which impede the meeting May result in a warning issued by the presiding officer if this Behavior continues you may be removed from chambers if you're an attendee in the zoom meeting and would like to make public comment please raise your hand at this time our first public commenter is Eddie Lorton okay and um Madam clerk also I notice on the screen we it would be good to see all the participants both from the Planning Commission and the city council so if you could show that screen I don't know if you can but that would be helpful yeah hi my name is Eddie Lorton for the record and uh nice seeing you here today I came to speak on the charter Review Committee and what they're drafting right now and I think it's important when it comes to the appointment process needs to be be addressed they brought it to a whole new art form on this Council where most of the people have been appointed at one point or another not all but usually what that means when they do an appointment is they appoint their yes person and give them the fake gift of incumbency so I hope you review it I like what they were mentioning here and that is 180 days out or so you know a six-month period if it's less than that we could do an appointment and they mentioned they've done appointments before but that's for committees like the charter committee is an appointed committee stuff like that but in elected positions I think it's terrible to leave the public out of politics so why not have an election people say that certain people are election deniers well let's have an election so I think that we need to do special elections I mean we do spend money on pet peeve projects and stuff where I think democracy is the Cornerstone and the most important thing is what brings us here so I'm hoping that you know in a six-month period if something happens but I wish no one would even run unless they're going to fulfill their obligation but I know things happen sometimes but I think that people right now should end up changing this appointing process it's horrible for our community you want people speaking for you that are elected I mean there's people you know like I wrote an opinion piece about uh something that's might be occurring coming up where there's going to be a little swap of positions on this Council and there's people looking for business daating that hey can you do business with the future mayor so I'm hoping that we can put an end to this and if it's a six-month period and people quit prospecting from this seat for business and we can move forward for our community and then when people get elected absolutely they have a voice and sometimes appointees become elected then it's a different ball game because they're elected but please consider this for our Charter Review Committee less than six months than maybe an appointment cuz we spend money on that but please consider elections and special elections for elected positions so thank you for your time I appreciate it all right thanks Mr Lorton all right Madam vice mayor we do not have anybody else registered in the room or via zoom and oh Beth Dory hello Beth Dory for the record and I am in favor of 224-1 suggested by the charter commission as written um I think by directing staff to recommend creating a special election to replace a council person who resigns as a no-brainer I agree with Mr ree that Council should be judicious when directing staff as to what amendments should move move forward in my opinion the city lost respect and political Capital with our lawmakers in 2022 by pushing the notion of retaining the atlarge council position that was a disaster I hope this Council does not make the same mistake in 2024 thank you okay thanks Miss Dory uh Madam Clark any others no we do not have any additional public comment at this time no hands are raised in zoom and we have not received any correspondence okay so yes Madam vice mayor I would like to make public comment oh okay certainly go ahead Madam mayor um I appreciate everyone's um opinions I want to make it clear for the record uh that Mr Lorton it's um his it's really his conspiracy to scare constituents that I would be stepping down to appoint Mr Reese so I want to make it clear for the record today that that will not be happening I don't know where he got that but it is his own conspiracy so um so I hope everyone uh feels a little bit better there so um I just wanted to address that and also I would say this when council members leave or or appointed positions elected positions it also makes it very difficult for the council that was someone elected by the voters so that's under their circumstance we can't control that so this narrative that you know it's a big juice job also makes it difficult I have no problem going out to an election whatsoever but this is more or less a a conspiracy um you know from Mr Lorton so thank you very much okay thank you Madame mayor um again is there any other public comments Madam clerk we have no additional public comment at this time okay all right well we'll close out public comment and I think we're moving on for both parties to approve the agenda so I'm looking for a motion on city council to approve the agenda I'll move to approve all right Mr Reese and Miss Ebert second all right any comments all in favor please say I I any opposed motion passes unanimously and over to you uh for the Planning Commission Mr Green oh sorry who made the motion thank you thank you thank you why don't they have mics Vice chair green if you wouldn't mind going up to the podium and speaking just so that there's um and mam clerk are there any spare remote mics I think that would be helpful they're they're mostly the people are clustered over here we could if we could get two mics that would help we'll have it drink those out right now can you retake that motion please yep um all those in favor of the motion say I yeah all any opposed please say no any abstentions uh I believe the motion passes but I didn't hear anyone online and just for the record um we had member Hoover as the motion and member opferman as the seconder right okay thank you and you may want to stay right there because we're going to do the approval of the minutes and um this goes back to our last joint meeting uh which was back in August of 2022 so I guess you need two separate motions again Madam clerk we do need um a motion to approve I think you can do yes sorry so do a motion on the first one um from The Joint body and then a motion from the second would just be from the charter committee okay you want to lead us Mr Green yeah cool seeking any motion from the charter committee to approve make motion to approve second cool so a motion from op Forman second from member Hoover and and you're saying Mickey we would all vote on this us too yes okay cool all those in favor please say I I I I all those opposed any abstentions I'll abstain because I wasn't present at the meeting one AB sttion noted I can abstain too because I wasn't there two abstentions any more I believe we move into a approval the matter all right all right thank you you could uh grab your seat Mr Green if you want they brought out some mics um and then from um just the well it looks like just the Reno City Charter committee for their june10 2024 meeting and that's back to you Mr Green seeking approval of from June 24 Ive to approve second second up by member P all those in favor please say I I I any opposed sorry Vice shair green was that a second by member pesovic correct thank you no proposals on the record any abstentions Iain cool one extension by member Hoover and I believe that again brings us to a point to where that motion passed sorry I don't know where to look thanks Mr Green we we aren't part of that motion um it's just for the charter committee um we're going to close out item a five and move on to B which are presentations on the uh and discussion on potential direction to staff regarding the Reno City Charter committee's recommendations for amendments to the Reno City Charter um including acceptance of their final report and recommendations so I believe that's you Mr good afternoon vice mayor council Nick saone government Affairs manager Office of policy and strategy um today I won't actually be giving the presentation that will be uh member green the vice chair of the committee uh but I did want to just give an overview uh the charter committee uh as the staff Le AIS on I've been meeting with them since January of the beginning of this year uh they've met a total of six times now uh and we went over uh various measures related to the Charter uh I gave them a brief history specifically they had asked a few questions about you know what does it look like um for a charter bill to actually pass in the legislature what kind of topics have other cities considered when did Charter committees form across the state of Nevada those kind of things um and I just wanted to again set the stage this isn't the the time to actually select the bill draft request and I want both bodies to understand that this is just the time to ask questions look at the recommendations and accept or uh not accept the final report from the charter committee but without um further Ado I'll throw it over to member green yeah Mr Sone I heard a public commenter misstate something and I wanted to inquire about that historically in the last legislative cycle the charter committee uh ran a bill um and what was the Charter committee's bill in the last cycle it had two parts as I recall I think they characterized it the public comment to wrongfully characterize it as the city's Bill and that somehow the city had lost credibility but the charter committee actually made the recommendations last time and what were those recommendations so uh not to uh correct you but there were three recommendations uh gender neutral language throughout the charter uh the green infrastructure projects within the charter and the at large position and that uh that process was the exact same as this Charter review process um it went through and it was included in the final report to be considered by the the city council and was accepted by the city council at that August 4th meeting of which the minutes you just approved let me get some clarity because I was not aware that the charter committee had a bill um I think only the city council has two bills and they don't have their own bill we may or may not do a charter bill is that correct uh so our Charter actually specifically allowed the the charter committee to go find an independent sponsor that's one part of it did they last time we had Senate Bill 12 and the city council had endorsed and actually put that forward as one of our own bill draft requests okay so they could if we didn't accept it get a sponsor for their own bill but what happened last time last time the Reno City Council in mid August after you had already had the joint meeting had selected one bill draft request which was to amend the city's Charter oh okay and the second was to just direct staff to focus on affordable housing okay very good um all right so um do you want to turn over to Mr Green yes um do you have a PowerPoint for us Mr Green I do okay thank you Nick um and so just to kick off just like Nick said we have had six um meetings since January 1st which is kicks off our B annual review and so uh today is the recommendations that we have uh culminated and discussed on um and are putting forward today for potential action by the city council um starting with Amendment 001 which it again will require the city council to declare a special election if there are more than 180 days until the next general municip municipal election um amendment number 002 which changes the um terms of the charter committee's member appointed by the legislature sorry can't pronounce that word um to align with the terms of the individual um office holder um 003 which requires that the city manager reside in the City of Reno not later than six months after the date of his her appointment and um 04 which is a repeat from our last visit with the city council on the elimination of gender new or gendered language throughout the Reno City Charter um but with that would love to enter any dialogue that or questions that you guys have for us all right could you put them up one by one again um do you want the summary no the one you just had the yeah so this one uh on the special election it looks like it was a 12 O vote one absent correct um does any member of the city council have commentary on this no what about online and anyone online Miss Taylor Miss shibi okay no who is this this is no mad Vice may this is councilor yes do you have comments no I don't have any comments oh oh I'm sorry um okay well I do have a comment um I I think this was well done I um as I said um at our last council meeting I feel that the controversy over the appointment process has somewhat delegitimized our appointees who I uh treasure and um they've been through with us through thick and thin now for about a year and a half and um I do believe it would be helpful I did uh recommend at their appointment time that there be a special election back then so I'm being very consistent I I do think that this would be a good ad to the city Charter um I would make a change I think six months I I was interested how you came up with six months was it just that seemed good or was there debate on any other time frame and so and for free to Jumping guys if you have anything to add I think did you speak in the mic I'm sorry one of the biggest things we looked at was what was going to be work and best of timelines for the city I know we got some advice um from both Nick and Nikki about how long special elections take um to put into place and what the timing looks like that looks at from a logistics standpoint to make sure that it is consistent and um you know keeps in to consideration um um the the weight of going back to have that election so the one change I would make is I think I living through being on Council 10 years and living through a number of special uh or appointments um my thought is it generally takes us about two months to do an appointment um we have to advertise for a couple weeks who's interested uh there's a interview process there's a community meeting process and then there's a whole uh council meeting to to go through the interview and the appointment process so I would lean towards a 8mon uh for me because I think it takes about two months and that position would be vacant for two months and I think going if we did it at six months the position would be vacant two months and then they would only fill the seat four months and I don't think they could get their legs under them or really add to the dialogue in that short of time um so my thought is I I like the recommendation I would like to see it be maybe eight months but I mean I'm not married to that but um I'd like to see us move forward if we don't vote to support that and if we don't even have a charter bill because I don't know what bills to to the point made earlier what bills we be endorsing um I wouldn't mind having this as a city policy it says we may appoint or have a city election I think it would be good to put some clarity around that process whether or not it's in the charter just as more of a policy but that's just my perspective um and and why again am I recommending this because I think it would Clarity and we could stop talking about it we have a process we move through the process we get the people in point uh in position whether they're appointed or elected so that's my thought I don't know if anyone else has any comments on this one Madam vice mayor thank you so much Mr Green thank you so much for the presentation and for the work that your committee has done maybe I'll start with the first question I have which is the type or matter or nature of the Public's involvement in these discussions so one of the things that this body is very uh find very important is the number of times that the public has to engage in the process so sometimes we have open houses sometimes we do forums online so I want to understand because I've looked at the minutes of the charter committee it doesn't appear that much public input has been had on the recommendations so what opportunities has the public had to weigh in on the recommendations just RIT large I'm not talking about this specific one but what is their involvement been um my understanding is in the early Days of our conversations that we did go back and um ask uh an input from our directive appointees but I don't know off the top of my head if we went back and engaged with the public on any of I don't think we have our bills I think Miss pisit did you have a something to add to the conversation I could I don't I know that this is you try to use the mic uh please and you can uh bring it down folds there you go I I know that the public can come but unfortunately I don't recall any public being involved because I don't think they even know that the charter committee exists or what they do or how they do it and I'm one of the new people and I didn't know I mean it's been learning as I go and so I think I mean I have everything they've ever printed so I mean I've read it all but I think it's very difficult to get people to come to something for the charter committee I mean it's a strange time um it goes generally from 5:30 to 7:30 sometimes 8:30 um it's it's just a situation where it's a group of people who are appointed by different people who have input and I don't mean that good or bad it's just the reality well and I'm not saying it's um a fault of the charter committee I think you've all done great work to volunteer your time and again my concern is largely that uh it's a very large undertaking to change the formational documents and so we want to make sure the public has the opportunity to have input into it and so far they really haven't as far as I can tell I agree with that and I think what you have to do is make sure that this goes out to the public I don't mean this in a negative way but I've already said several times notice from the City of Reno is very very difficult it's an Insider game it's Insider baseball for example the one that we all agreed on that we weren't going to let you know houses be in single family areas um nobody in my neighborhood knew about it and I know that nobody in the city really knew about it and I think if you go to a different neighborhood they're not going to know about it because we don't the city meaning all of us we don't get notice you I know you give notice but you know 70 750 ft really not enough that's the width of McCaron understand um I have some other questions but um I me go around yeah want to make sure my colleagues have the opportunity to weigh inck I just wanted to again on the record we did have the same um open meeting law requirements for to allow for public comment um I think compared to last year we got around the same members number of members from the public coming to the events or the meetings so I think it was between one and three public commenters over the course of the the six-month period okay and then one of the challenges I think it's not a standing committee so it's it meets only for a special purpose for a very limited time six months 7 months at most and um there's not a lot of time for people even to learn it exists in a in a two-year period bearing in mind it only meets for six months once a month and uh I think that we're we're hitting in on an important topic is how do people get notice of what we're doing and how do they express how they care and people that know me know that for a very long time this been a subject near and dear to my heart and there's many ways to do it and I think we keep pushing the envelope on how to do it better I truly do and I've been very impressed with what our liaison have done in our um community outreach folks trying different methods whether it's postcards whether it's emails whether it's sign up for list and it'll be pushed out those kind of things so any input on this particular process since you all have participated in this process if you have ideas on that just even for going forward that would be very valuable yeah and my understanding is that the getting the public to come to meetings um is not just a challenge the charter committee faces it's something that's consistent throughout the City of Reno and so with that we did talk about additional levers that we could pull I know one of the biggest things that opportunities and learnings that we had from the first or well my first Charter committee session is that we want to make sure that one we had some opportunities to publicize it to the knowledge that way people know what we were binging to Carson um in addition to making sure our committee shows up and allows for public comment in that format but okay let me ask any uh Mr Martinez any comments yeah thanks so much I'd like to extend my gratitude for you all for the work you've done over the last six months to get us to this position and thank you to the public comments that came and provided some input um obviously being directly affected um throughout my professional career by this policy um I think I have a unique understanding of it and I I like to Echo some of the comments that were made by my colleague we do think it's very important that the public interacts with our processes and is engaged um there is a lot of time where we hear from community members that there isn't enough Outreach and I know not just us up here on the dice but our staff have a really big Affinity with wanting to increase the number of access to our information and making sure that we're providing that and so I think in order for me to understand your recommendation I'd love to hear more about how this would go into practice and so uh just seeing like what happened at the school district where there was a candidate that had to run multi multiple times until they were actually duly elected into their position how would this affect um that so I'm trying to understand if somebody were to leave let's say what happened two years ago and that's the same case and we relive this and this policy goes into place would that person be special the election would go for them to cover the two years and then they'd have to run again or would it start the fouryear clock at that point I'm just trying to understand the nuances of this policy and how they would finish out the term in that Electic cycle from the person who stepped down so even if it's a year out let's say it was October of 23 and someone stepped out for the election and 24 it'd have to be a special election then again a year from that point they would have to run again to retain the SE for the four-year term ex uh exactly okay I just want to make sure I'm understanding what the processes are not saying that they will delegitimize anything but just making sure we vet what the process I think the process at the school board is a little different I mean it was very awkward that I think you're referring to Beth Smith yeah it was that that she had to R um run to fill the term then run the next time which would have been appropriate but then for some reason she had to run again yeah and I I haven't really followed all the legal requirements there but I think that Mr Green said it right Miss pavich which is if you let's say you left a term with three years remaining um the next election would be in 3 years right and you would run in 3 years and then you know you would be duly elected so I don't think it's that complicated here but I'm sure there could be other interpretations and I don't mean to complicated I'm just for myself say I think it's better here um than what the school board situation is and that would allow that individual to serve for a full 15-year term with them being successful that I can't answer I mean it's part of a term I don't know if Mr Hall Mr Shipman have any comment on that if someone were to get elected and we pass this policy and within a year they leave office would they potentially have the ability to serve for a full 15 years in the seat yeah for the record John Shipman city attorney's office um so it's a constitutional provision that talks about that and it's a generally a 12year um maximum term I mean like maximum years in office um we'd have to go back and look at the specific circumstances in terms of timing and whatnot there's some case law that bears on whether or not um you know time you know being elected prior whether that would um count towards that 12year or not okay um but yeah there's there's a couple cases out there and we could yeah yeah I just want to make sure we get it all on the record thank you so much for the opportunities no good point and also we're not planning to vote today I mean we're having a dialogue with the um Charter committee but I think our voting will happen at least my understanding Nick voting will happen at the time we look at bills is that right so this is a great time to get those questions and if we don't know the answers maybe Mr Shipman could help us by the time it comes back to know thank you okay how about you uh Miss Ebert anything well the 12E things brings a lot of questions and because we do currently have people appointed now so does how does that affect people people's terms when their 12 years is up currently um it for the record John Chipman um it's it's not an appointed versus elected thing it's uh the Constitution essentially says that you can be part of a a governing body for 12 years that are so um whether you're elected or appointed it doesn't matter but it goes to the I mean the issue goes to your eligibility for the next election whether you could if you were serving 10 years in office and then you wanted and the term was four more years another term would be four more years then the question is and that would put you over the 12 years um whether or not you were eligible to run for that and and we do have examples of that I'm I'm just a little reluctant to to to to opine on any particular case without having the case along in front of me yeah do you think next time Mr shitman you know we're going to discuss this as a potential bill you guys could be prepared to discuss some of it anyway yeah for the term limit stuff certainly yeah anything else Miss e um yeah I do I do have concerns about that because you know if if we do allow that then we have people that you know currently are appointed no disrespect to anybody but that can presumably serve for 14 years or more correct and people that were elected in the first place are only eligible to serve for 12 years correct again we'd have to look factually at it like specific I mean so if the question is somebody's appointed for like a year before what they're appointed for two years or two years um then we'd have to look at you know in that third election whether or that fourth election whether or not they the prohibition applied and again we can do that and I can have that I just I I don't want to like spitball it without looking at a particular set of facts in front of me yeah okay all right let me ask online um Miss Taylor anything on this one no Madam vice mayor okay and um Madam mayor yes um I want to go back to the noticing I find it very very frustrating I'd love for Nick or Mickey to weigh in on what the requirement is on noticing the public Outreach that has to be done it's something I've always been frustrated by let me give you an example um oh I think it was last week I received a card in the mail asking the community to weigh in on title five I believe well my issue with that is how would the public possibly know what title five is what Title 18 is um there's got to be a much better way to get uh you know much better Community involvement so I would love to hear what's the requirement um on noticing because I know there is a requirement and I think and I don't know do we still have to put it in the newspaper um because I believe at one time that was a required mechanism is through uh the newspaper maybe someone can clarify that but also go through what noticing took place but I do think that um I do see it I believe on social media quite a bit but remember there are older demographics that don't that are not on social media and I can't blame them um it's not a space that I love particularly but maybe give us a little bit of feedback Nick and Mickey what what we're required to do and how we can change that and also we need to put it in terminology that the general public can understand I would say this I hear a lot about um times in which we hold these meetings um I hear that obviously after 5:30 is better especially if you own a business most of uh us are running businesses you know between the normal business hours so typically later is better for the general public um but just give me an idea Nick of the requirements and I I do think it's something that we have to look at and figure out how we can do it much better Nick Sone government Affairs manager Office of policy and strategy for the record um I'm not an attorney and I not a planner so I'm not used to frequently noticing things and I don't want to um be misquoted I will say that uh to your comment about what time the meetings are our meetings are always at 5:30 for the charter committee with the exception of this one um and to your point about plain language I can speak to that uh we were very deliberate in the charter review process and using uh what I would call plain language uh like using thing terms like role and authority of the mayor when they were discussing those positions as opposed to actually um you know saying section one of the charter uh the charter for the City of Reno um so again I know I only answered part of your question but hopefully that that helps let me see if Mickey Mickey can you weigh in here yeah so oh go ahead Madam mayor no I was just saying maybe Madam clerk could weigh in thanks Mickey yeah of course uh so Mickey Huntsman city clerk for the record um so the charter committee Falls as a public governing body I guess or a committee for the organization so they follow standard oml um noticing requirements which is just the publication of the agenda 3 days prior to the meeting being held um I think when you're talking about the postcards and public noticing there's other sections of NRS that govern the types of notifications that are required for certain um like land use development or changes to land use and so that is outlined in NRS and so that's the the section of code that staff would follow specific to that type of um language that's required to be used on the notifications and then also the timing of when those notifications should be distributed so there was no additional public notice done outside of the agenda posting and just um I'd love to agendize this on a future agenda um just this whole issue of public notice and I'm going to share why um when people are very motivated they do come like we just had a meeting last Wednesday in the evening and we had um a Mater Academy and we had this entire room full we had the entire Lobby full and it was even spilling out to the street so when people really really really care about something they do show up um they they got that word out through their own channel right for people that were supportive people that were post but secondly um and this might be of interest to you Madame mayor for a future agenda item 10 years ago I shared with our staff a TED Talk that was about how to give clear public notice and simple language it was a three minute Ted Talk it was brilliant and um to your point uh using the Arcane legal language was um you could include it but it was better to just include really super simple language on the postcards I shared it with our management team at that time it could be time to revisit that I mean it was beautiful it was done in Canada actually this Ted Talk um but I brought it here because you know like you Madame mayor really care about this issue and struggle with what is the best way so there are clearly some people have figured it out right on how to do better and other people are self- selected based on the topic at hand so here we are okay getting back to you Mr Green um on your is do you want to share with us your second proposal I just Madam vice mayor oh did you have yes I have more questions on this item Mr Green first of well thank you we don't expect you of course to be an elections lawyer so please feel no pressure to answer some of these things we're looking for some guidance from our legal council and some of the questions are perhaps beyond the scope what I think is related um but I have questions about um what the charter committee did on this issue to come and arrive at their conclusion so for example um did we look at all the other elective bodies in the state and what their appointment is for example our lieutenant governor um Kate Marshall she left um that job Midway you know some people would say you know that is a breach of trust right people were supposed to be in the office so they die I I think that's a red herring but the point is is that appointment was then made by the governor right I look at another state uh next door uh Gavin Nome appointed a US senator LEF Butler um so appointments happen at every level they happen at the school district level so did you look at what other cities counties municipalities in this state do in terms of appointment versus elections correct um so when we went throughout the entire Charter process we looked at uh other city councils um and in Nevada um in addition to I think we looked at potentially California and outside State other outside States we didn't compare it to other bodies of government um within within Nevada and so I think we stayed pretty consistent at the the city council level okay but what about the Clark County commission for example what do they do when they have a vacancy do they hold a special election uh I'm sorry repeat the question appoint right so the Clark County Commission appoints and so I wanted to uh so it sounds like we still have some work to do there on that issue let me also ask did you analyze the voter turnout in special elections cuz one of the things I'm concerned about is that when you have a special election let's say your special election occurs in March right so it's the winter you've just had an election November we've had historically low turnout in the last June primary and so I'm worried about a very small number of people who are organized or perhaps have the resources where they're very wealthy um donors write them campaign checks or people sell fund because they think hey I'm a businessman I can write a $100,000 to my campaign account that they are able to fund but the other candidates are not so what is the type of turnout one would expect in an off cycle election um I don't know that we have any metrics we do look at voter turnout um as a whole and I know Nick um and staff did prepare that metrics for us as we were determining our decisions and I think the impact for us when it came to the determination for this special election session was one what was going to afford the most voice for the people to come in but um overall overall in the shortest consistent amount of time that way it gave us more of an ability to act I don't know that we were looking at I'm sorry was that no that's okay it's we try to make sure that there's some time limits on it so no one monopolize the conversation gotcha um and so I don't know that we considered specifically voter tonal as it in relation to the the the special election um it sounds like the conversation the council has been having is that getting people to come out and vote has been a challenge overall consistently um throughout all of Nevada's different voting different or voting green just as a heads up um member Baron has raised her hand to help answer this question if you'd like and Mickey I was going to ask if we could put back up that view even if it's not the whole Council if it's all the people online could see them raise their hand okay sounds like Mr Green you're saying your committee thought about it but maybe there's more work to be done right because I've looked at the national Trends so in small special elections that happen for appointments the turnout model is right around 7% nationally right so 7% of the people are going to have any impact on that and it varies Minnesota I think is the high water mark at 11% so that's why I'm saying this is a question I have there's a related question and that is what did the charter committee consider when it asked about the style of election so is is there going to be a general election is there going to be a jungle primary which is where all of the members run in one thing because I can see a scenario in which you tell me that hey what we're going to do is have one election and you have it on a tight time frame so let's say you have eight weeks for people to declare file decide to run and you've got 10 people so you have 10 people who run you have a winner take all primary you have a 7% turnout so the person who wins is going to have 1% of the vote in a 10 vote thing that does not seem consistent with a larger recognition that the community which is represented by us as a representative democracy who have been um voted on in these elections would be able to make that based on the people who applied so this is the other concern I have because you haven't laid out to me what type of election strategy it would be whether they be a primary and a general or whether it would be just one primary and again if you just take the two things and it says we have low turnout you very lack of Engagement you have some people who claim to self-fund their elections that they would essentially be able to buy an election in a special off session election because the number would be so small and they would be able to do that and that doesn't seem representative so these are the questions I have to ask because I think fundamentally no one is going to say we don't like elections elections are a great thing we have free and fair elections some people have even denied the results of last time's election you know in this city they have said those elections are invalid election deniers right conspiracy theorists right but I'm not sure we should be taking the advice from those people who have run five and seven and eight times unsuccessfully or have denied elections but I'm asking you whether and to what extent those things were taken into account by the charter committee and it sounds maybe like it didn't get that far sounds like no but it sounds like we should think about asking our staff to come back with answers to some of these things yeah let me um just we we've gone a little over as you can see but let me just do one more round is there any more yeah Miss Hebert well I think that it's not necessarily the the job of the charter committee to look into these finer points I think it's a register of Voters job so I'm not disappointed that you guys don't have these finer details worked out um and I think that really democracy is very important and I think it's um the feedback that I get from my constituents is um there's a perception that elections don't matter anymore that voices don't matter and I think it's really important for us to prove that perception wrong and one of the best ways we can do that is by having elections and letting people know um you are going to decide who represents you and the fact that it might be a smaller turnout is irrelevant to me we need to let people know that they're making the choice and um statements about um election donations also don't really um to me personally matter considering you know when I ran and was elected I spent I believe less than $40,000 in my campaign against um somebody that I believe spent over I think it was like $120,000 so if we want to talk about um donations everybody up here their cnes are available on the Secretary of State's website people are getting more than 100,000 donations easily um but that doesn't necessarily assure election so I don't think that argument holds water either um I think at the end of the day this argument is about how important is democracy to you to me it's extremely important so I'll support this um again I think it's a voter uh register's decision on how to work out the finer points but I think it's our job to decide um how serious is it that we engage with our voters so thank you for your work on this okay I'll get right to you in just a moment but let me ask um uh I wanted to clarify something Mickey I believe it is the clerk that would run our special election not the register but please explain that that's correct that's correct so in circumstances of a special election um sorry Mickey Huntsman city clerk for the record um in circumstances of special elections the city clerk would work with the registar voters to um conduct a special election if one happened okay all right very good yeah and and then uh Miss Baron raised her hand and then we'll come to you Miss fisic Miss Brun hi thank you um I think that I just want to address the um availability to the public when we were talking about um public engagement but then also you know try to avoid these kind of long back and force you know if the Public's not showing up council members are also free to come to our meetings and that hasn't really occurred and we did discuss at length and even looked at numbers of um voter turnouts when we had this conversation before I remember green I don't know who were there during that conversation but we did have a very long meeting about this and we did compare um election results with it and I think that it would have been really helpful to have at least one Council liaison or or not a council liaison but an actual council member at some of these meetings and I see that that kind of sometimes presents a gap when we're here and then um in the matter of you know Civic engagement I think that sometimes we do see people go for appointment and um what the selection from Council is not necessarily representative of the people that did show up to the meeting so I'm kind of hearing two different things there and just as As a matter of you know just to put a point on it I know it's very difficult to disagree with people and that people have um long histories together but perhaps you know people stop coming to meetings after they're called conspiracy theorists and they're called names by uh the folks on the dis or otherwise I think it's important to you know use a little bit different choice of words everyone that doesn't agree with someone is not a conspiracy theorist maybe we could just be a little bit more uh have a little bit more decorum in the way that we engage with the public so that they do feel as if they're being heard when they show up to meetings um again I understand there are some very uh contentious characters at hand and maybe some people are conspiracy theorists but that's not always the case so let's just try to think about why maybe some people don't feel like engaging all right thank you so much and then we'll go to miss P Miss piskov um thank you I recall when we were doing this we had several statistics regarding elections and as I recall um we had obviously if it's a special election and there's and there is news about it people do vote but where the problem is is when it's kind of like we don't know you know but we did talk about all of this and it's my impression from our discussion and I could be wrong that we were considering one election so if there were 20 people there were 20 people was like a win or take all concept okay I think that's what we discussed but I I'm not positive and then you're just saying advertising of the election would be important very important member pesovic if you can move the mic or at least talk talk into the mic that would be helpful it closer thank you yeah okay um Mr saone the city council in Las Vegas used to have off cycle elections and they've now come into line where they're holding them normally so it was the case that in the election cycle two cycles ago the last time they did it in March of an off cycle um you had council members for a city of a million people who were elected by a thousand votes is that that correct roughly I I it's I think Miss fiori was elected by 1,200 votes Miss Seaman by 1300 votes but the reason why they mve those elections from being in a random March in an off year was because of the low voter turnout right so an actual election which did not need to be advertised it was just when they were held was moved to be in line with the other elections correct because they felt it was important for there to be a high turnout for such important offices uh it would be accurate to say the legislature felt that it was legisl right they didn't change it through their Charter the legislature did it legis and I I just wanted to clarify um I've corrected at least a member of the council up here I do have to correct the charter committee we did not review elections with respect to special elections there's not a special election to compare to in Reno Nevada uh we looked at the issue of 50% plus one for primaries and that is when this body reviewed uh review reviewed primary election results compared to general elections but we did not review special election results okay well I would encourage um the charter committee members to look at the special elections of communities like in Minnesota where they do have special elections and see what the turnout model is there because it's a very good example very similar in size to our community and I'm not sure they're going to be meeting anymore but um we we might get that input I think we have the ability to call another meeting prior to your meeting and then I think this is important conversation before you guys decide which bills you want to adopt on August 14th and so we still have time to engage with the public get that data like we're talking about and so I still think it's a full conversation for consideration as we move forward right okay and last call anyone online either the uh Charter committee or Council want to weigh in on this before we move on this is councilwoman Taylor I just wanted um there was a comment made about attending the charter um meetings and I was able to participate or ATT those meetings at least two of them via online and I I didn't see that there I think sometimes the the charter committee wasn't all present there either so um it was a very interesting experience and um lots of work goes into the recommendations so thank you very much thank you that ADV thank you and I I too attended online at least one maybe two but uh Miss oerman is if it's green is it on yeah Green's on thank you um I think you know I just wanted to weigh in on some of the comments and council member ree um you I think you highlight some really excellent details and that's important in terms of what type of election and voter turnout that's really critical um I do though want to say you know we've seen that the last primary had particularly low voter turnout because people are just feeling less and less invested in elections um and I think council member der you really highlighted it with a good word which is delegitimize um and I think you know nationally federally but also locally people just feel increasingly or or decreasingly connected to their elected officials um and so in terms of those details I think those absolutely need to be explored and some of those details we did not explore as a charter committee but I do think it's important to think about the overarching theme and the fact that unanimously minus one person who was absent we felt it was really important to bring back this idea of special elections um obviously you know there's a question of timeline we felt like the shortest timeline possible is important so so less than 6 months it's really not practical to have a special election um you know your comments about it takes about two months I think that can be explored in terms of whether it's six months or eight months but but just that overarching theme of our entire committee felt like it is important that we give our community access to vote for someone and not simply have an elected board decide on that individual yeah I think your point too is that there's only let's say if it's a member of our body six people voting versus maybe a thousand to to use a low number or 2,000 I think is maybe your point um okay and then there's we always worry about information right there's low information voters people other people really dive in and find out about all the candidates and kudos to them but we're not going to be able to control that either at the council level or you know I interviewed every candidate or uh if it's a general election so listen um in the interest of time we've spent about an hour on this one um I think I have one more question oh you have one more question okay go ahead um do we know do you have any information on how many other appointed there are in the state of Nevada on City councils I don't have that data readily available okay well where we stand with other councils you know percentage wise of how many people are appointed how many resignations we have in comparison to other bodies I don't have those numbers readily available so I don't feel confident telling you one way or the other I do know that other city councils do have at least some other city councils do have at least one member that was originally appointed okay one just one that was originally appointed because like right now we currently have three council members up for election that were all originally appointed so to me that feels like we're kind of skewed a little bit heavy with appointments on this Council so I was just curious to see if other councils I mean maybe other bodies aren't talking about this because maybe you know maybe half their Council hasn't been appointed so just wanted to call that out too so thank you okay all right and let me make sure was there anyone else online that wanted to weigh in on this any of our members okay uh Madame mayor yeah thank you um a couple of things I would say um I think the council is always happy to come to a charter committee meeting I don't think that there's any issue with that but however the last Charter uh commission that we had there was um a council member that was intimately involved and there was a perception of um persuasion um so you know it's one of those things that I think you know we really highly look to the commission to be very independent from the council I think that that is always um something that you know is um that we should be very mindful of but always happy I think anyone on this council is very happy to come and uh give you any feedback that you know you so desire but I would say that's also a double-edged sword I think the charter commission should be very independent of probably um any opinions of council members so I want to say that um the the other thing is um hold on my my internet is going in and out here um can you hear me yeah we can hear you fine okay thank you so much um oh the other thing that I wanted to bring up is that I think we're living in a time where everyone needs to be mindful that regardless whether you appoint or it's an election both have become um talking points for if it's an election then that was also rigged or they cheated we're seeing that now more than ever um in certain national elections and I think everyone knows probably what I'm talking about if you appoint then it becomes the same narrative um you know that it's an inside deal inside juice job um and I would say I think it's very indicative of when you have three um appointees or you know councilwoman Ebert just sort of alluded to it one of the reasons why you're seeing vacancies like this is because of the tumultuous time that we are seeing in politics that it's become very hard for people to serve or want to serve because of this narrative that we're seeing so I think we have to be very mindful about not playing into a lot of the scare tactics conspiracy theories that typically are being floated and we when we all talk about democracy and how important it is I think that's the first thing to really be mindful of so um I think all of us have a responsibility to make sure um that we're not feeding into that because it only divides us as a country and as a community so that's where I think um it's very clear to see that now more than ever people don't want to serve um it's a very scary time to serve we're seeing violence you just saw what happened uh in Pennsylvania you see what happens locally trackers on my cars um other issues that I haven't spoken publicly about I know firsthand there are certain times that um you know now your your own well-being is being attacked so I I would just say all of us have a responsibility um to unite instead of divide okay thanks so much Madame mayor um you know I'm hesitant to close this out because it seems like there is more interest so let me ask is there someone else who'd like top Pine on either body oh yes of course please go ahead Miss Hoover member Hoover for the record um I really really appreciate the discussion and I I just want to put on the record that the reason this Charter committee brought this issue up and is moving forward with it has nothing to do with a single person or a singular race this has everything to do with trying to ensure that the voters of this city have a voice to ensure that their voice later on is also being represented on this Council and this conversation has been happening for years and years and years and so whether we hopefully move forward with 6 months or 8 months that is completely up to your discretion we did review a lot of facts and a lot of figures and we wanted to ensure that across the city we also reviewed all the cities across the state and so I just want to thank Nick and Mickey for all of the work they did on this because this was also a contentious um issue during our Charter committee as well but I just want to point out this has nothing to do with a singular race or person we really want to do what is best for the voters in the long term and we hope that whatever the recommendation may be that we all can the end of the day agree that it is best for the voters and best for their public comment to be included in this conversation thank you gotcha all right all right going once going twice all right let me ask Mr Green could you bring up your next topic there you go um and so moving into Amendment 002 um this would just simply on its face changed the term of the charart commune the charity committee members appointed by the legislature to align with the terms of an individual office holder any question so give us an example at the end of Mr Reese's appointment I would also have uh be vacant my position would also be vacant on the when he terms out or when he's um I mean you're on a term and I think you're pointed each year or Mickey is it a four-year or um two-year appointment Nick I just wanted to provide Clarity since this was actually asked for by staff um Nick scone government Affairs manager for the record um so basically for city council it's very clear it aligns with the term of that individual office holder as member green had indicated for the Senate and the assembly for some reason it is strangely worded so that the assembly gets twoe appointments the Senate gets four year appointments let's say that you are halfway through your Senate term and you've appointed someone that makes it confusing for me as staff and I'm like do I keep this person on for a full four-year term or does it tie to that individual office holders got so this just cleans it up it makes it so I don't have to actually make a decision and I understand what the legislature intended for us to do so would each one be a two-year term going forward it would align with that office holder so if you're a senator from let's say the Senate majority you would have to the Senate Majority Leader would have to actually align that to someone from our area so for example that could be like Senator da he would be the person whose term that is tied to oh okay tied to a term versus just generically from the Senate two or four years was yes correct okay or rather than tie to a term maybe they could just have a date certain that it ends for purposes of operationalizing this and making it easier on my life that works yeah yeah okay all right Mr ree thank you Mr Sione don't go too far I I guess I'm trying to understand exactly what you said because now I'm confused what if you're an assembly member uh and we'll use an example so uh relle WN uh resigned her assembly seat to then run for a vacated senate seat as I recall and so there were double res well there was a resignation first of the senator who was do you remember who that was I'm so sorry I just want to make sure I give color to it because now I'm seeing an issue both related to the prior conversation which is to say that assembly members when they resign are appointed by the county commissions from the same party so again uh democracy didn't crumble when those appointments happened and then now you're saying that somehow those assembly seats would be tied to members of this body where they left because now you've have relle WN who left the assembly but then went to the Senate someone in the Senate left those people would then lose their seats on our Charter committee so you've brought in southern Nevada which is a whole other beast when it comes to the amount of senate or Assembly districts that actually overlap those cities is one thing that I'd point out um it would local yes yeah I'm trying too so Senate District 15 um that is one that actually would overlap with the City of Reno so let's say that there was a Senator just for um ratty sure so let's make it simple and say that that person had resigned their term it would be through the rest of what is intended to be that full term I see so they'd have an initial appointment and it would last for two or four years us lined up with the um original term of the member correct okay it seems pretty straightforward to me uh Miss hoer yes for the record Miranda Hoover um I'd like to speak on this because it directly um affects me um so former assembly woman Jill tols appointed me she has been off of the assembly for quite some time there was no based on just operations there was no clear-cut means and Nick and I have discussed this thoroughly there was no clear-cut means for city council staff to understand should I leave should I go should I stay who to contact what to do and so to clearly Define into how this body actually should be appointed and how we should operate we all agreed that putting in place for both the Senate and the assembly terms should line up the exact same way as for all of those that you get to appoint and so it really is back to the full body so when we talk about the Senate majority it really is the Senate majority office it really is the assembly majority office versus the term do I love this body yes I do but I didn't know how long I was supposed to stay here um but so because it directly affects me we've had a lot of these conversations and I fully agree that to ensure this same issue doesn't occur again that we should specifically put this into to our Charter um and ensure that the staff can do their job and Nick Sone government Affairs manager for the record this is how both the city of North Las Vegas and the City of Henderson uh their Charter committee is set up theirs was created more recently than ours and the language in my opinion is a little clear yeah okay let me ask on the count on the um City commission here Council uh Mr Martinez any comments no um Miss Ebert no um how about online um either planning Commissioners or council members on this topic it seems pretty straightforward in a simplification and a good idea to me okay so I'm sure we can over complicate anything but it's better than what we have now right right now it's it's a morass it's very vague and so anything that would bring some clarity and just Define these terms would be helpful I think okay all right um let's move on to your next one moving on to Amendment 003 this would uh require that the city manager reside within the city of Arena within six months of being hired okay um I guess I'll I'll start it off um I generally appreciate where this is going I I do think people should be of the community um I would broaden it to the county and the reason is is many people don't even know where the city county boundaries are um I have a very Jagged line line in my ward too uh you know as you go straight down Virginia Street um on the west side it's a very Jagged line some developments are in some are out uh and the same goes for South Reno and down you know where all the borders are it gets very challenging I just think a simpler approach would be to say live in waso County now I know we have some awesome staff also that live in Sparks for example and I love our little brother Sparks frankly and um I think it feels like part of our community so I I really don't um think they absolutely in my opinion this is all my opinion have to be a City of Reno member but then we also have staff that live in outline areas whether it's down in Carson City Gardnerville I mean these are staff that's not the manager so my my thought is wasow County but I'd love to hear what anybody else thinks Mr ree want to go first again I I guess I'm trying to figure out what is the problem you were looking to solve because I I'm not aware of any city manager in the time that I've been in this community that did not live here so just what was it they were trying to solve so I know what the issue was yep and correct me anyone on try to Comm if I'm wrong I believe the big thing that we were trying to Sol for was ensuring that the resident or the person who was coming up um for eligibility for the city manager position resided in Reno because that way they would be more in tune with the expertise um experience and also different issues that the city was facing um and someone who is a city manager for example in Sparks may be more in tune to handle the conversations in Sparks rather than coming back into Reno I think it also helps um with the conversations we're having around making sure that uh voters understand the experience and overall picture of the candidates who come forward and serve in the city maners position um but if any else would like to add more context rather online I'm still not sure I understood your answer are you saying that someone who applies to be the city manager from pipy must move here and cannot manage the city from pipy or you're saying you only want to see candidates candidate for the job of city manager who currently now reside in the City of Reno what I'm Sorry Miss Hoover member Hoover for the record um it would be the first one so we outlined this information that after they receive the job within 6 months they need to become residents of the City of Reno so anybody from anywhere could apply they could get the job but they do need to if they don't currently move within Reno City proper to keep the job and have we had city managers in the history of the city manager Office who do not live in the city of Reno my understanding is in the past we have had those apply I don't know if anyone has actually received the job well I I can tell you miss Hoover that we have an outstanding opening vacancy in that office and anyone who applies or who is selected must live here now whether they must live in the city of Reno limits or must live in the greater you know Washo County Reno Sparks Incline Village area I don't know I I I'm reluctant to say where anyone must live they choose their residence for a reason obviously I don't want to see someone who lives in Roseville and commutes every day to be the city manager but again I'm just trying to understand you normally we're trying to find a we have a problem we're trying to find a solution for it this seems like a solution in search of a problem so I just don't know that there's any appetite to do this but again I I expect the person will live whoever that person is here locally so I'll give an example I think it hasn't happened here at least recently but there are other elected bodies where the executive has failed to move to the community over a certain period of time and um I think that it's probably at least is what I've heard it's more preventative um they don't want to have that arrive and then not know what to do um like maintain a residency in Las Vegas or maintain a residency in Florida or maintain a residency somewhere else and then do commuting and and it has happened and um I think they're trying to be proactive and that's why I'm supportive although not as restricted as Reno um but anyway I think it is it is important to become a member of your community the culture in which live understand the environment in which you're trying to manage so I would be supportive again in a little broader context but let me ask um Miss Ebert or Mr Martinez any thoughts on this one yeah yeah um I yeah I don't I don't personally see the problem with somebody living out of the area prior to but you said this is within okay yeah within six months yeah I think yeah so you're okay and Mr Martinez yeah I would also agree I would also agree with some of the comments about about this not necessarily being a case but I appreciate you all being proactive and trying to keep us out of that hot water that we've seen happen I would also suggest maybe looking at the county overall not just the City of Reno because if you're on Veterans for example going north you can be in three different jurisdictions within two miles from Momo to Greg Street so um it's all one region and I would just appreciate some more lacks in that specification okay and anyone on line let me start with you Miss Taylor no Madam Vice May okay uh Miss Madame mayor yes thank you I agree with you Council Lor vice mayor um in the sense that it should be broader to Washo County and I would say we did have a a city manager at one time that lived in the county um and some of those reasons were that they had a lot of animals and um there are certain reasons why you might be seeking more land or those types of things but I think um you know to your point and I've seen it over at the rscva and maybe it on other bodies where you know if someone lives certainly outside um you know the county has one foot in one foot out that's very problematic we have seen that in the region right so I would agree that living in Washo county is important so they understand the community and Dynamics I don't think we're big enough to where like we live in San Francisco we're still very much one region whether it's Sparks um or you know the county or even um Carson City be honest with you and remember um you know you have a spouse too that might have a job um whether it's in Carson City or in Sparks or those types of things so um can you imagine if you appointed someone and then all of a sudden said hey you have to move I want to point someone for their talent and their ability not on the lines in which uh they live um per se obviously you know locally is always great but I think we are a small enough region to where um we certainly understand the Dynamics of you know the complexities within our own region so I would say you know County um but I think you have to be very careful because then you're not facing their qualifications really on their talent you're you're facing it on lines in which where they live now again being outside you know in California or even Southern Nevada is is problematic you want someone that's fully invested but I would say you know Washo County would absolutely be fine um but again I think then you're put someone's um ability to be a good city manager sort of at risk versus um you know the right candidate versus the lines in which they live um Madame mayor I want to concur with you too because just sitting here thinking about it I mean we have staff here at City Areno that live in trucky right a different state and it's only maybe 30 35 minutes maybe 40 under certain traffic conditions away but it is a whole different different state it's kind of a different culture it's governed in a different way whereas a Carson City um is about also 30 minutes away but it's in Nevada it's in the center it's at the the Hub in Nevada so perhaps it could be you know we set it within Nevada and then within a you know a 45 minute travel distance or something I don't know if that's important but all these things we can think about as we move forward um but wo County might be a good dividing line frankly so anyone else um what about those on the um commission the charter commission um online yeah no one has a hand raised or one speak okay all right any last comments on this one uh here at the Das here at the tables Miss Hoover thank you Miranda Hoover for the record um we have no problem with expanding this into the county but what I would also um just suggest for um thought thought is that you know you could always make it either city or county limits but you also could add in a provision that says you know unless the full City decides to um declare an exemption for someone so I mean there's lots of ability for us to move things around without getting so specific that we may be um you know disqualifying a great candidate or or something like that so just just my thoughts I like that very much allowing the possibility of an exemption by city council okay like it would be more of a guidance okay um all right let's move on to the next one cool um and this one is simply a revisit of this discussion um from our last session but 004 which would provide the elimination of gender language um throughout the Reno City Charter okay which is pretty expand um fully supportive over here anyone else comments they're all head nodding Miss Hebert online uh with the council Miss Taylor Madam mayor any thoughts on gender neutral language okay any members yes I see Miss oerman thank you member oerman for the record I'll make this brief I just want to say um I know this has been a topic of the charter committee for I believe this is the third time in a row right um so this just continues to be a focus of ours it feels like a very easy shift um just for your awareness we did change the bylaws of the charter committee to also be gender neutral um and so this just continues to be something important and uh we would love for this to be dealt with so we don't have to continue bringing it to city council to change the charter very good okay well last call on this I I I don't think you'll get any argument we've included it in our Charter bills for this would be the third time two other times so okay um do you have any other recommendations we do not have this time okay all right um I would like to introduce two recommendations for the charter committee to at least know about if you're even if you're not meeting again um and I've been very consistent since the first Charter committee um the first one is about our attorney and this always awkward they're sitting here but um I I have a strong feeling that the City attorney should be hired by the City versus elected and today uh Reno and Sparks are the only cities in Nevada to my knowledge that elect their City attorney all the others and that includes Elco and Wendover and Las Vegas Etc all um hire their attorneys um I advocated in our first Charter committee I advocated for today um I think it would depoliticize the position and allow them to provide um you you know really get down into the weeds in terms of recommendations and advice for us and this is no aspersion on Mr hall because I think he's done a great job and he knows it um I've had many many conversations with him but I just think as a a practice to sort of uh go with the rest of Nevada I think there's a reason and I don't know all the reasons and I'm not going to argue that one is better than the other I just think for consistency but I I do think that it would actually Empower in some ways the office to work more closely with our senior staff that's just you know my thought um I don't know I'll I'll say both of mine and then we can open it up for any comments from the charter committee the second one um is really about this whole issue about mayor and Council being a separate position or the same position ever since I got elected this has been again just like a a perennial issue similar to this appointment issue and I really believe um that the mayor I've I've seen the mayor serve for 10 years and I really do believe the mayor serves a different function than the council members yes she votes but so do Mayors in other cities they don't all just break ties and and I would love to see a little more research on this um I would rather put it to bed um under our terms rather than continue to fight about this at at the legislature and the um uh Mayoral race that there was again a legal challenge I think in the in in the world where there are legal challenges that we should make a definition that's clear for everybody um I do think that it would be potentially beneficial to have a member of the body that served on the council whether that's for two years or 12 uh to be able to run for mayor I think um it's a different kind of job um that's just my perception my my belief I think in the first few years of the mayor's term it really hobbled um her till she got her stride in terms of the requ questions all the time and again I'm going to go back to legitimacy well can she do this or can she do that or what's her actual role or is she of us is she not of us I didn't like that great amount of confusion and I would like to see it put to bed I think it could be a simple sentence that says these are separate positions the duties are already laid out in our Charter about being able to call special meetings emergencies set agendas the regular council members don't have those Powers um so I think it was clearly intended to be a different thing and I'd love to see words that just say these two jobs are different uh are separate so those are my two additional thoughts that you did not bring up Charter committee maybe you talked about them I don't know but let me just hear um let me ask you did you talk about either of those two things and K please we yeah it got brought up in quite length of conversations uh I'm trying to remember specific details house but yeah Miss Miss bovich sorry I know your name very well don't worry about that um the very very first meeting there was discussions about whether the City attorney should be hired or should be elected and that was actually tabled saided we did not want anything to do with that and we also said we wanted him or her to be elected and the reason being is if you're an attorney you need to be separate from your clients and you need to be separate for everything that you do and that got tabled I don't even remember who did it but it was totally tabled and we said we're done okay well miss pesovic you being an attorney let me just ask you so all the other cities in Nevada do it a different way I really don't care I think you need to have Independence okay I've been a lawyer for 43 years right I know and so I wouldn't I would in no way want want to have my client telling me what to do that doesn't work all right so I too have worked for government for about 40 plus years and every other place um the not just a lawyer but teams of lawyers have been part of that staff and they've worked hand and glove with the um staff to provide independent advice but at the end of the day um the policy makers are the staff um the lawyers are advisors and um that's just a a world that I've worked in for 40 40 plus years as a government um employee so well that can be true in certain government situations but we're talking about what do you want to have happen you shouldn't be able to browbeat your lawyer that's the bottom line I mean if you've got a subject matter and I don't care what it is whether you should build here or build there or whatever the lawyer should know what's going on and the lawyer should say yeah that's a good place or oh you've got a problem you're in a blood Zone yeah I've never seen any of them be Shrinking Violets frankly or not share their viice I just think that it's wrong I mean I'm okay I mean it's if you're an attorney you don't have your clients telling you what they want you have to evaluate what they need okay and if they don't like your opinion that's fine go get a different one yeah well and that's also something I don't want to do is go shopping for legal opinions but we can differ I mean respectfully it's my perspective that it may work better um but anyway let me um any other Planning Commission members on that and then we'll come back to council I mean I'm sorry I said Planning Commission I meant Charter commission yeah I just know somebody said let's let's bury it and we what's that somebody just said let's just table this we're not going to deal with it we don't want it we want him to be hired and I don't remember how that came about I really don't it wasn't me but okay anyone online okay how about on city council anyone online yes okay Madame mayor um I guess see it's very hard because we work very well with Carl but you know I think you have to ask too you know who does the city attorney's um office represent um we've been fortunate to where um Carl is super accessible always always really willing to help um however but sometimes I see where the council might say hey let's go in this direction and the attorney's office might want to go in a different direction and I think you know a lot of times I hear well who do they represent do they represent their office do they represent the council or do they represent the community and sometimes there can be a lot of um you know difference of opinion there um and so you know for instance what if you you know have say you want to go and settle the case and then you end up in court and you end up paying a lot more than what you would have settled for right and then um you know I don't know you know Margo brings up a point of like you know go get a different attorney if you don't don't like what you hear um I think it is their job to absolutely you know tell you on the legal side but sometimes that's not always cut and dry and when you get to court it you know it can be um very interesting because you don't know how a judge is is going to perceive that um again I think we've been very fortunate because count because Carl knows you know I always call him uh the one and only Carl Hall um but we've been lucky to have an attorney that's super available super committed uh Works incredibly hard has built an incredible team but I do Wonder sometimes you know um under some of that direction um what about you know if if it's an appointed I can understand Margo's thoughts there but I'm not I I just don't know because I do see sometimes you you might not be sure of um because I think a lot of people if you think about this a lot of people think it was the council's direction and a lot of times we have to say no that's our city attorney's Direction especially like takings on land and things like that we you know we have to follow that advice but I do think the council oftentimes um might go in a different direction and um and then you know we fall to the City attorney and so um then that kind of puts you in a little bit of a situation where you're trying to explain to the public that you really didn't have um any purview of over that which can be where the public feels that they're not represented so in times I think it can be a little challenging but we're we've been fortunate over here at the City of Reno but I think you know when I think back to where Julia ratty you know went to the legislature on this very issue uh was probably very different for the city of Sparks but I'm not so sure that it shouldn't be aligned with the entire state of um of that position I see I can see both sides but um there was a reason I think you know Julia brought it Forward yeah all right thank you madam mayor um I think you represented um you know every issue has multiple sides except gender neutral language and um you know we can make an argument for anything but I do think you're hitting on something which is that the attorney deals with a range of issues some are more administrative some are more policy driven and I do think that if the I I do do think that this is the primary policymaking body and that the lawyers should work to represent those policies and not that they haven't but I just think it should be institutionalized that this this is who they work for um the council and the and the city manager so that's my thought um may may or may not be popular let me ask any other council members like to weigh in Miss Ebert yeah yeah I mean I I do have comments on that I mean they're the city's attorneys they're not council's attorneys so if they if if we were appointing them they would have to you know kind of change course with whoever appointed them I would presume um and that's really for my understanding not what the role is they're the city's attorneys so the voters should pick them they should be protecting the city's interest they also kind of are there to kind of help guide us make sure that we follow the law and that they're not there to follow how we tell them to interpret the law so I think it's important that we keep them as elected so that you know they can stay true to what the position was intended to be at the City of Reno so those are my comments okay thanks and let me just share there are many agencies that have attorneys Big agencies we're thinking Tuma uh we think RTC we think a Schoolboard Etc all of these agencies hire their attorneys and um they may change their attorneys over time and tomwa we had the same attorney for 20 years and then we did a RFP and we interviewed attorney firms and we ended up selecting a a different attorney firm uh there were different policy issues in front of tomwa at that time so I'm just I'm giving you some examples that it may not be a a c change uh looking for a different opinion every minute but I think that uh there should be some consistency in alignment with the body the policymaking body uh Mr Reese thank you vice mayor der uh for my part and like Miss pis I have a 25y year history as a lawyer and and I can see it from both sides uh there is certainly an issue about a client and their relationship with their attorney that relates to the duties of loyalty and confidentiality that are are uh you know challenging when you have dual commitments right and so uh my colleague from Ward 4 talks about them being the city's attorney and I think that's true but at times they also are our attorneys so it's it kind of cuts both ways I think we've U left this issue behind I think we've been debating about it for long enough I do think it's inconsistent to say we should have special elections because we want to give the will of the vote to the people and then at the same hand take away an elected office so I don't know how to square that um Miss doer um and and I it's not being argumentative I I mean no dis courteousness to it it's just I don't know how you have both of those positions um at the end of the day um you know we and the City of Sparks are the two anomalies I think in the state um and both of those um lawyers and both of those communities are are good and gracious lawyers uh capable and qualified I'm not sure that this is the area where I think we need to go with the relative little political Capital we have uh you also mentioned to stu um this question about the mayor um and for my part I think um perhaps I would characterize um our current mayor's time and office a little differently in terms of needing time to be on the upswing but I also think that you know no one needs to be on this body 24 years right so 12 years as a council member 12 years as mayor would seem to me to be excessive um I I think you know there's term limits that are recognized and you know the term limits get a little wonky because some people were in one office and then they switched to another office and that was the recent curfuffle that happened in this last legisl or this last elective cycle then there are people like me who are appointed to fill the remaining term of a particular office um and then have you know three terms of office in front of me um if the voters should see so fit so I I just don't know that there is a necessity for anyone to spend more time I I also am not sure that uh this is a hard job and it's made more hard by people who laugh you know about cars being tracked you know people are literally sitting in our audience who are laughing when the mayor is saying I felt threatened by uh a car being tracked just 24 years seems a lot of time to be in an office so I just am not sure that I think that that's also where my political Capital would lie the mayor in in our case does perform a very different role than we each do but I'm not sure that that again is a problem looking for a solution or a solution looking for a problem so I I would not be in favor of either of those but I do think there are reasonable arguments on both sides of the issue and you've made a compelling case right thanks all right anyone else Mr Martinez on either topic I know this is a thing of first impression hasn't been vetted for six weeks but it has been I mean six months but it has been vetted um over a period of 10 years these both these topics so they have it I know I've had a couple conversations and I know there are some comments that are still to come but um just to share my opinions I would say that you know in consideration of the amount of bdrs that we are able to sponsor and our political Capital down in Carson City I do think that we need to focus our efforts uh through the charter committee and just go based on the recommendations that we're provided today but I do think that there is Merit in continuing the conversations um that the vice mayor has brought up today so I'll just leave it at that for today well I'm good at calling things out in the room anyway uh Miss Eber did you have a comment about the mayor issue um wasn't the term limit set by the state no what happened was it was set by our Charter and the state has term limits and then um there was a lawsuit about whether these are different positions or the same positions okay so it was established that and then there was another lawsuit uhuh so I just um you know I want to get it clear clear and um they do it at different in different cities I mean just down the road in Sparks I think the mayor only votes uh to break a tie um do you know about the term limits of the Sparks mayor for example I don't know the term limits that was actually a question that was raised is is Sparks treated differently because their mayor's role is clearly cut out in the charter and I believe that they don't have term limits because their mayor is not a voting member of the body so it is it is different there's your answer yeah so they could not only be 24 years they could be 50 years I guess go ahead but I mean I feel like this is kind of maybe a little bit of a dead horse like how many lawsuits do we need to have about this how many times does do we need to be told like how much much energy do we want to put into this very specific argument and um you know there's some ambig ambiguity I can't say that word right now but I think you know what I mean um ambiguity around term limits for those that are appointed right now with you know when when is that 12 years how many elections you know if you get elected three times but you had two years already like what happens for those last two years you know um I think that maybe there should be some energy put into that since there does seem to be some maybe some gray area there if we're going to put energy in towards towards anything I would think that would be something I would be more interested in because I think it's relevant to three of our council members right now um versus something that's already had several um lawsuits so thank you all right uh just one minute Miss pesovic uh and then we have Kathleen and the mayor did you have a comment on either one uh Miss Taylor no Madam vice mayor okay and then Madame mayor any any more comment you know I've been here done this um I think this is it becomes very um it becomes very party oriented and um I do believe in term limits absolutely um and then I think I mean if there's you know some issues with sort of that 2year carryover which you know that just sort of Falls in that place um you know I don't think once you're elected I think the people want you to serve that out um but the term limits mayor is very very different um if you go out on the street and you ask people um if there's a difference they absolutely uh would tell you 100% there is I think it's very misleading to the public um I always have um but I think you know this is something that um you know there hasn't been a lot of appetite it is interesting I think mayor Martini served for how many years I don't it was a long time maybe two decades I can't remember um you know so I I've been there done that um and and quite frankly too you know the council did not weigh in whenever I brought it up so there was not an appetite to do it um then and I don't think there's an appetite to do it now um I also don't think people really understand the role of the mayor they think the mayor runs the city on a daily basis when really it's the city manager because we are a weak form of Mayor government um so there's a lot of complexities around this issue uh so you know um you know I don't really know what to say anymore but I do think something that has just been circling around for a very very long time and if the parties don't have a lot of push for it you will never see it me as a nonpartisan I go down to the legislature and both parties run and it's really they um tend to only pull less whenever maybe I'm on the side of whatever that party that party issue is um you know just like you know when we were talking about you know Council members weighing in to Charter committees you know there was a lot of persuasion on um certain political party sides uh to to make sure um uh that W only voting passed and and look at what board only voting done has done now I think you know there was just recently um something that came up where a council member wants to see something in her Ward and it didn't pass and we and we've seen that your ward uh Madame vice mayor we've seen that right oh yes so so I think once you have parties that uh want to see that then it will come to fruition but until then yeah um there something that is probably I would say at this time more important to get other work done right um and you know I felt very strongly about that everyone knows that um you know I I just do because I've sat there I know the difference and I've also sat at the large position so I understand the importance of that and that has gone away so I I think um you know it becomes more of an issue in in a in a Party politics type of dynamic until you until those Party politics wants to take that on then that might be something that moves forward but at this time I would say probably no appetite rather see the council focus on other things that we can get done and agree on okay well I I what I hear you say is DOA Dead on Arrival and um I just appreciate the opportunity to bring it up because I think these are still important governance issues um that go right to the very heart of how we operate and I'm one that always wants Clarity and that is why um both of those uh were things I at least wanted to bring up to Daylight and talk about here um if we never talk about them then you know just certain things get embedded and continue on and uh become the way is right and we don't even know that it isn't necessarily the way it is elsewhere so we just think it's the way it is everywhere because we do it this way and somehow it's better because we do it this way so um appreciate the time to bring the raise those two issues um let me ask is there anyone else that would like to bring an issue that the charter committee didn't address or uh Miss pesovic first of all I would like to make it very clear we did address that issue in fact I brought it up when we were talking about the mayor or the mayor uh when we oh the mayor we we that got tabled the attorney thing just went away um within probably 10 minutes of the first meeting um the the on the when we were talking about first of all I don't even know people's political values or what they think we didn't talk about that we talked about what we thought was best for the city and I'm not aware of any Party politics in it at all in fact I didn't only knew one other person on the charter committee so that's kind of not involved but when we were talking about the election um after you know a few after six months I mean excuse yeah after six months um we I brought it up and said why isn't the mayor different and it was a said and and they said because it's in the charter that they are equal and that's how we do it I mean it it was that simple just the way it is the way it is and so because I was concerned if the mayor should be considered a different kind of entity because of the responsibilities and they said no it's the same they're all equal they're all equal well that's what the law you know the lawsuit said that's what it is and that's what I'm saying right but I'm just sharing in Practical and I'm sorry I didn't mean to talk over you but in Practical experience I find they're quite different well there are some differences and yet there aren't and so we we were told to leave alone to be very C okay all right anyone else online either of these two issues can I just clarify something councilwoman dur yeah please Madam mayor I want to clarify this um Margo that whenever I was saying the Party politics it it had nothing to do with this Charter committee or what you guys reviewed or how you weighed in on this subject um that was in previous Charter committee meetings um so I want to make that very clear because I don't because to Margo's point it you know I I understood that they did not talk about it or or bring it up um and then the the other point was um that they are well you know what I would like to know who said that they did not want to bring it up that it was that was just the way it is and you were told not to bring it up so Nick's coming up I think that's also sort of interesting Nick toone government Affairs manager for the record uh what member pesovic I believe was referring to is when we're talking about the need for a special election or lack thereof on that Amendment we told her or indicated to the board that for the purposes of that special election Amendment it did not to be need to be clarified that the mayor and the council are separate in that Amendment because they mean the same thing in the charter that's the only uh time that we told them no you don't need to further explore this language okay may have been misinterpreted at that time or interpreted as something like don't talk about that I don't know but for future Rec if you happen to serve and everything's on the table there's nothing for boting to not talk about that's the purpose of you being here and you got to make best use of your time and you're only here for six months so we need your brains on this so really um and the reason that you're selected is because you have some knowledge of how government works some knowledge of the challenges that we face in running the city so that you can bring an um you know good ideas to us even if it's not your personal idea might be a friend or a neighbor or colleague um you are conduit and that's how you've been selected by all the people that appointed you so just bear that in mind if you thought that certain topics were off the table Miss pich I don't think that is true if you really wanted to talk about it I'm sure that they would have let you talk about it you know yeah okay all right and then let me ask um I think we're drawing to a close I know we have some public comment um let before I go to kind of wrap this up um is there any more comment on any other topics that the charter committee did or didn't recommend or that I recommended or anyone else okay Madam Vice yes I had a quick question yes I think there was a comment earlier in the conversation when we discussed your first recommendation uh that it originated out of the discussion of doing the 50 plus one vote in the elections during the primary I'm just curious how that conversation turned from that into a special election process and how that came about Nick Sone government Affairs manager for the record uh those were considered as two separate ideas and you'll see that in the final report and recommendations uh all I was clarifying is that the only data we looked at had to do with the 50% plus one item and not the special election item and that wasn't put forward both both were considered as potential ideas for the body to consider and I didn't put it Forward I mean you know I'm I'm content with how it is I mean I just raised the two that I think are perennial um itches that need to be scratched so to speak but um did you want to talk further about the 50 plus one Mr I just wanted to make sure we understood and that was on the record how things got there well no one the charter committee hasn't brought it up none of our members have brought it up so I don't think it's in contention right now but yes um okay well given that I think I'm about to draw this part of the meeting to close let anyone has any final comments Mr Sone uh Madam by mayor I would just recommend that you uh make a motion to approve the final report and recommendations okay but is the final report done I mean it's complete correct they had the charter committee had already voted to approve their portion so it would just be for the city council well before we do that let me call public comment um got to take a motion on the item no no I want to call public comment before we um do that so Madame clerk who who is available for public comment Eddie Lorton okay and if you're on zoom and would like to make public comment please raise your handon um while we addressing I guess my conspiracy theory well we've been right for the last 12 years about everything I hope I'm wrong on the mayor switch and seats so I definitely agree on appointing being thrown out and doing special election so I definitely agree on that you could tell who is for appointing and who's not so don't be intimidated by a word salad and do the right thing so don't get used as you seen how they got rid of the alard seat and then they tried to get rid of it because it was going to affect people so I hope in the future to stick to your guns and do the right thing that would be great and now let's get back to the Supreme Court case which I set case law Lorton versus Jones everybody is aware of it or those in the know I guess and we'll go back to this if your guys aren't clear on this and it says 12 years on the same governing body I didn't want to waste another 880,000 so some guy tried to take him to court and he didn't even have an attorney so no wonder why they lost and then they were able to run an extra couple years so yes appointed time is inclusive in that time but I guess now they're to the point to where if they're going to include if they've already served 12 years they can't run and if it's under the 12 because appointment time was part of that time then I guess they can run and then it over overlaps in between so that's something to be worked out too but I didn't want to waste 80 grand to prove the LW again I thought we were going to be okay during election and and I did lose but we got a lot of votes so now that's clear I hope 12 years on the same governing body and every Charter is different yes Sparks is different than Reno but Reno see and if you go back like once I set case law on term limits then they're shuffling after that to get rid of the atlar seat which you know was just one n count BCE I beat them on and now coming up here now they're trying to make the mayor a different position so they always change rules for them and their friends benefit so it was proven that the mayor is part of the governing body so except for ceremonial purposes so like the large seat was Citywide they were and every district is different to where everyone ends up you know they represent their Ward okay and now we're back to the elections again on this part that you up you represent your ward well I'd rather have a th people from the Ward voting on the special election than the six left over and then they have special interest groups in mind when they select their people so I'd rather even have 50 people vote if it's a low voter turnout it doesn't matter just so it's of the people so I hope you consider that and I think we should elect a City attorney because he's not in their pocket so I believe in elections and maybe a police chief should be elected like a sheriff so here's things you can think of but the 50 to1 when it comes to 50% plus one in election like the Sparks Charter I don't agree with that cuz it's Advantage incumbent so I don't like that either so I appreciate your time thank you all right thanks Mr Lorton um any other public comment Madam clerk Madam vice mayor we do not have any additional public comment okay all right well um with that I'm looking for a motion to uh consider approving the report from the charter committee I'll move to accept the charter committee's report second all right we have a motion from Mr ree second from Mr Martinez any comment on the motion hearing none all in favor please say I I any opposed all right motion passes unanimously good work Charter committee we know you put in the time and we know you had rigorous debate and we appreciate the commitment of time you made to our city and making our city better and I think we're going to carefully consider your recommendation and I want you to stay involved so that you know you're either here in the audience or participating in some way when we actually go to vote on our bills okay all right thank you again I mean you really did some due diligence appreciate it um we're going to turn now to final public comment and Madam clerk is there any final public comment thank you madam ice mayor we do not have any public comment registered okay we'll close that item C and move to adjournment can I get a motion for adjournment second all right um Mr Reese and then Mr Martinez all in favor please say I I I okay motion passes unanimously and we are adjourned