Here is the townhall transcript with speaker names added based on the context provided. *Note: Phonetic transcriptions like "Councelor jelly" have been corrected to "Councilor Hjelle," and "Councelor lah/the blah" to "Councilor LeBlanc." The name "Councilor Jones" appears in the transcript roll call; although not in your provided list, I have retained it as it was a specific name called during the meeting.* [0:00] Mayor Wayne Boucher: good evening let's call Mee order stand Al to the flag of the United States of America and to the repblic for which it stands one nation God indivisible withy and justice for [0:25] All: all [0:25] City Clerk Alissa McClure: call please. Councilor Jones? (Aye) Councilor Geissler? (Here) Councilor Hjelle? (Here) Councilor LeBlanc? (Here) Mayor Boucher? (Here) [0:38] Mayor Wayne Boucher: announcements do any councilors have announcements to make tonight and we will move into the first medy item on our agenda and that's a public hearing public hearing to consider the proposed assessment for the construction of ugad and Arrowhead Road reconditioning SP 202-1011 4 Minnesota project number stbg 69 9 22198 District number 534 and we will start with Mr Moulder with an explanation of the project [1:12] City Administrator John Mulder: yeah so I thought I would just um kind of do a quick overview and basically I'm using some slides back from um this has been a project a long time in coming um but this project started back in um 2019 OT excuse me 2020 and we held our first public hearing meeting on January 20th 2021 and it was at that meeting that um we shared theability study um that theer had prepared for this project um we shared that public information meeting um with the residents um that were going to be impacted look at the next slide there um so this is just kind of the we jokingly refer to this is the road map the road um but this is the process and again we circled that that date January 2021 was the first time we met with the public about this project um the rest of those dates all got thrown off because of um as we go through the process to um have the pl prepared SCH it was a state aid project and federal aid project we needed the state to sign off Lo project and that took um a fair amount for 2021 so we um actually did um award this so the design was in Fe in 2021 in 2022 we waited for final approval um we didn't get that until um late in the year so we actually awarded this bid on January 17th of this year so then um we started in the spring and now we're instead of October of 22 public hearing on the assess in October of 23 um so again just a brief overview of what we had proposed to do is um we had seven different segments um we were going to Mill and overlay a number of those reclaim and overlay um and do some full depth reconstruction originally back in um two years ago we were thinking it would be a 10 foot wide multi-use Trail but that actually got changed and it was only a six foot wide TR so we did add some um turn Lanes um and a center left turn lane around the intersections with an arrowhead and with h circle um those are the um improvements that have been made um back at that public information meeting we shared the prary engineering cost on the next slide [Music] um at that point in time we said um we anticipated that the construction was going to be 2.8 million we had money in for design Wetland Geotech Bal and a contingency with total project cost of 3.6 million um we also have identified how we were going to fund this project um included um some federal funding some State funding which was the max that we could get for these two projects um we're putting 150,000 um from local funds various um storm water um General l like that and then we had proposed uh an assessment of 9750 the time we counted 75 partials that would be assessed I think we're down now to 73 um at that point in time assessments were scheduled to cover 20% of the actual total cost of the road project um in the delay um as we go through this construction cost increased by 1.3 million so um the road project now ends up being you know the construction was um right about $4 million about $4 million is on construction for so despite the fact that we had an increase of cost this was the um assessment that we told people back in 2021 um that they would have that sped over 15 years 4% and did not change the interest rate despite the fact that interest rates from the money that we've end up borrowing has increased um to an annual um payment of 876 in 96 c um so we have gone through that process um the law project is substantially complete punchless items that need to be taken care of yet um but um so tonight we're at the public hearing um this is an opportunity for the public to weigh in on the assessment and on the project um if memb members of the public do object we will schedule individual objection hearings um we scheduled to do that on October 30th um we will do individual times with each um objecting party um at that point in time we'll hear your objection in in full and the council will give some indication of how they want to handle those objections the plan then is to have the final assessment role in front of the city council on November 6 um and they'll have Tak into consideration all the comments public hearing all the discussions at the objection hearing and we make the final decision [6:36] Mayor Wayne Boucher: thank you uh we will accept public input from anyone present on this project uh the current public input section is only for the public hearing for this project if you're here for other business there is a other time for public hearing or for public input if it's an agenda item later on in the the meeting there should be a time available then if it's general public input there will be public input shortly after this meeting also we have seven listed objections right now for the assessment uh if anyone else other than these seven people stand up and object tonight they will also be scheduled for a an one-on-one uh hearing on the 30th submit a written they have to submit a written tonight I have a form for that as well okay there's a form available from the city clerk also just to point out the assessment of 9750 is a standard number that we have used for the last I want to say four or five years on all city road projects so this is not a number that's specific to this project it's a city policy number that goes across all projects and in some projects that's paid the assessments have paid as high as 22% of the total project cost uh this one is significantly lower especially due to the increased cost if you've filed an objection written you do not have to speak tonight but I you can but you don't have to now I'd like to open it up to whoever wants to speak to us if you're in Chambers please approach the podium and state your name and address if you're online start with your name and address uh is there anyone in Chambers that wishes to approach the council or speak to the council if so come to the podium and start with your name and address [8:51] Mark Frick: hello my name is Mark Frick I live at uh 4241 one ugad road so um I'm coming here to object to this uh you know I was inform we we were all informed I guess of our 9750 assessment and I guess I would assume that you guys are all aware that these assessments are governed by the Minnesota statute chapter 429 uh which says special assessments cannot exceed the amount by which the property benefits from the Improvement the amount of property benefits from an improvement called a the special benefit is measured by the increase in the market value of the land due to the Improvement the assessment must be uniformly applied to the same class of property a local Improvement May benefit properties that are not AB budding the Improvement and those properties may also be assessed so it's my contention that I don't see a tangible increase in the value of my property to the at tune of $10,000 before the product uh before this project was completed I had a paved Street in front of my home ugad Road and a paved sidewalk across the street for my home the east side of ug ugad after the project I have a paved Street in front of my home ugad Road and a paved sidewalk across the street from my home uh I don't see any rationale for an increase in my property value based on the improvements I made some comments in here there was no tangible marketed uh marketable benefit to my property um the city didn't redo my kitchen or add a bedroom or bathroom that I can you know definitely see an improvement uh I can't list my home and say I got a nice improved road in front of my house that's not a thing uh maybe if it was a gravel or dirt road that would you know possibly be a benefit I would say you know others will comment here um I also have no documentation of such an increase in my property value kind of jokingly say the only Ben benefit is I've got an increase in Speeders thanks to the nice smooth road so um and as I've got a lot of attachments that I had emailed in so I assume that those will be shared there's previously been ruled on by the Minnesota Supreme Court on August 24th 2016 that assess that they uh that I believe is applicable here assessments amount to nonuniform taxes so you guys are applying non-uniform tax to us in in form of these assessments they're not fees that are being assessed by this Council the I've got multiple examples in here from the Star Tribune and other uh other media Outlets that talk about these same type of things being struck down multiple times in St Paul and other municipalities I furthermore contend that the improvements to ugad benefit the community as a whole not just the 70 some people you mentioned um there you know when you look at where I'm located I'm about half a block away from the Y um and asenta complex and therefore about a block away from the schools those enormous community centers draw a lot of um traffic in the morning and in the afternoon and throughout the day for the why also Beyond those two um huge areas of traffic generation we've got we've got other projects that have that have damaged our road and and sped up the necessitation of the placement here the roundabout uh construction at Midway Road and Maple Grove had a lot of a lot of construction traffic you know bar and down ugad the building of the Ary I don't know how you pronounce that apartment complex is another thing that's increased a lot of traffic and construction traffic the re the rework of Highway 53 at Highway 194 and other projects where you have a lot of traffic that comes down Lake bypass across 53 and straight through ugad down to Maple Grove and Beyond um I would contend that a lot of damage done to ugad Road was from this high volume of large construction equipment like 18-wheeler dump trucks and Etc versus the lighter local traffic of the local residents that you're assessing um and and you know I I don't know that you've mentioned anything I don't know if this is public information but why isn't a centia or the why play paying an unfair burden of this um they somehow were able to come up with a billion dollars for a nice new hospital so maybe they can help fot the bill for this and um I guess that's kind of my last point I feel like this should really come from more of the general city taxes and not just be applied to us 70 citizens and and then I reference at they under ofine all of the attachments thank you [14:02] Mayor Wayne Boucher: thank you we won't be answering individual points of challenge this evening we will be listening and taking them in the the time for us to go over those will be during the hearings on the 30th okay thank you we will try to answer procedural questions and and Broad questions that come up as they come up okay thank you guys who would like to be next and although we're going to enforce it Loosely there should be a three minute limit on that got it I'll do my best [14:27] Kimberly Hansen: good evening mayor and City Council Members my name is Kimberly Hansen I live at 4173 ugad Road in the greenhouse as it seems like most of Hermantown knows us um I'm just going to read the letter that I will be submitting this evening on behalf of myself and my husband and the rest of the residents on ugad road um so please accept this letter as an official Complaint regarding the city of hermant Town's road construction project assessment for ugad Road I am writing as a concerned citizen of Hermantown to state that the proposed amount for each land parcel of $9,750 is an unacceptable amount of financial burden to put on taxpaying residents in the city who on a taxpaying resident in the city who is already paying an estimated $7,000 in property taxes on an annual basis currently the portion of Ed road that goes from Maple Grove to US Highway 53 is occupied not only by residents in homes but is also accessed by a majority of families that utilize the public schools the hockey arena the YMCA at the Essential Health Wellness Center this includes not only residents of the area but also guests who are opponents at any hockey football tennis volleyball basket basketball events and others in my calculations the amount of the parcels that are on ugad in the above mentioned space is 68 Parcels which was corrected tonight to about 70 these appear to be the only residents responsible for the estimated assessment of 663 th000 in addition to these parcels there are also three residential areas that are required to utilize this portion of ugad road to access their residents I ask why those estimated 86 additional Parcels have not been asked to contribute there is also 147 unit apartment complex that utilizes this portion of ugad road to access their Apartments so I ask again why have they not been asked to contribute it to this assessment amount if all of Jackson Estates the homes off of the Twin Pines Road and the residents at Ary contributed to this assessment this would drive the individual cost of this project down to about a fifth of the current proposal per parcel I also ask why the school and YMCA are not being asked to contribute Jackson Estates the YMCA and soon the school have all contributed to the increased amount of heavy equipment traffic on ugad that has led to or will be leading to increased damage to on the road while these projects have improved her in town the cost of them should not fall to only the 68 Parcels on this road I am thankful for the new Road but I am not supportive of this initiative falling on only 68 Parcels when this is a major road for many in Hermantown I ask that you please reconsider the population that would be required to cover the proposed 663 th000 to share the cost with those that use it most thank you [17:21] Mayor Wayne Boucher: thank you is there anyone else [17:25] Lisa Volk: good evening I'm Lisa vulk uh 4328 ugad Road um I'd like to Echo the sentiments of the previous two residents that spoke um there's much many more residents that also use this this roadway um and I also have a few other issues like the other gentleman um that weren't addressed during the construction project such as CT replacement of some um a covert that has had some collapse areas in it um that I brought to the city's attention in the spring of 2022 and they had informed me at that point that it would be replaced when the road was scheduled to be replaced however to my disappointment that did not happen um and I firste that being an issue again in the the spring um so I I would like to voice that concern um as well as um the fact that you know like the other gentleman said there's no sidewalks on the on the other side of the road where there's several kids that are trying to get to school and they now have a narrower path to do so um they have to walk down the side of the street where that straight Lane is going 45 miles an hour plus to get to the crosswalk um which is causing them to cross four times instead of just once um in a in a kind of unsafe um setting so I just wanted to voice a couple of concerns there as well as I feel the amount is um you know not not at is more than enough um for us to have to pay for just those residents on the ugad road there thank you [19:14] Mayor Wayne Boucher: thank you next [19:21] Amber Olson: hi my name is Amber Olson I live at 4324 ugad Road I submitt my letter earlier because I get really nervous and I am just hopeful that you'll reassess what's coming our way and listen or like read closely to the letter I do understand that there was a need for a new road because I live directly across from the school right in the middle of the turn lane and my biggest concerns are my kids and myself safety them trying to cross the street to school they in the past have had to go through two lanes of traffic and now they have to cross three or go on the side of the roads down to the crosswalks um that are not close to my house and on on the shoulders when there's chaotic drivers and um distracted kid drivers and parents so please just read my letter and I look forward to the meeting short soon thank [20:16] Mayor Wayne Boucher: you is there anyone else that wishes to speak to the council at the public hearing this evening is there anyone online that wishes to speak or do you have any hands raised Joe if anyone online would like to speak just simply start with your name and address okay is there anyone either in Chambers or online that wishes to speak to the council during this public hearing about the subject of the ugad road reconstruction assessment we will now close the public hearing and move on to other business on the agenda yes I don't want say I got it I didn't I put something in I just this is your opportunity and will you Jo will have forms out in the hall within about a minute what we're the folks and they're given a Time on the 30th yes okay um we will look at how many people we have um we will start start at five o' we'll look at how many people we have schedule specific times you will notify the individual of the specific times so that way they don't have to sit around with seven people in 10 minutes each it's like well I don't have to sit around an hour I can show up at 610 and be ready to go you you'll be notified by mail yeah it has to be 10 days in advance certified mail were you done with everything we need for the public hearing other than accepting the two objection letters we will move on to Communications we have nothing specifically listed Mr Moulder we had three presentations at pre- Agenda could you give us a short synopsis of those presentations [23:08] City Administrator John Mulder: the finance department presented the quarterly financial report just to give you a status report where we at the budget and also shared new budget module um for the 2024 budget and we'll get that you for you to take a look at um we'll get that link out to you but understand some of that content is still being prepared so it might change um from today until November 20th the plan is to have all of that content done by November 20th and it's fine you can look at it but just be aware of that sh um I gave an update on hermeson Arena design um the schematic design um seeing the floor plans we're expecting estimates of that design here within the next week or so um David wol gave an update on Hon Road Bridge and road project that is scheduled for 2024 um and then also just a brief update on the teing street trail uh project that is also scheduled for 2024 [24:12] Mayor Wayne Boucher: thank you um public discussion this is the time that individuals can address the council about any item not on the agenda we ask that you limit your time to three minutes per person we do have several items on the agenda and I'm sure there's at least one or two that people will want to comment on uh but if it's something not on the agenda and general public input please approach the podium and start with your name and address [24:55] Jerry Terhaar: my name is Jerry terar 4719 lightning Drive I represent the utility maintenance department for the city The Local 49 we just wanted to take a minute to thank the city Administration mayor and the majority of city council for recognizing the value of maintaining current staff and recruiting quality candidates through for current open positions the incentives approved at the last council meeting will hopefully increase our applicant pool to fill the void created when a 17-year employee left for a different position with state in April thank you [25:38] Greg Zimmerman: thank you I got was this the appropriate time to talk about the Union Cemetery resoning [25:47] Mayor Wayne Boucher: no that is going to be shortly under ordinance to 20239 there will be public input on that one also is there any more General Public public input for items not on the agenda last opportunity for general public input you wish to speak to anything please start with your name and address close the public hearing public input and move to the consent agenda the consent agenda is the approval or correction of the October 2nd 2023 city council continuation minutes and accounts payable General City warrants from October 1st through October 15th of this year in the amount of 2,242 86731 do we have a motion for the consent agenda [26:52] Councilor Andy Hjelle: motion to approve [26:54] Mayor Wayne Boucher: motion by councelor jelly is there a second [26:56] Councilor John Geissler: second [26:57] Mayor Wayne Boucher: second by councelor gisler roll call please [27:01] City Clerk Alissa McClure: councelor grer? (hi) councelor jelly? (Hi) councelor lah? (Hi) councelor Jones? (hi) mayor bushe? (hi) [27:14] Mayor Wayne Boucher: next is ordinances ordinance 223-0904 Acres of parcels 395-1284 and 395 d001 0- 0784 do we have a motion [27:44] Councilor Andy Hjelle: motion to approve [27:45] Mayor Wayne Boucher: motion by councelor jelly is there a second [27:47] Councilor Brian LeBlanc: second [27:48] Mayor Wayne Boucher: second by councelor Leah Mr Moulder M Mr Johnson [27:55] Eric Johnson: great thank you very much Mr Mayor and members of the council uh as You'mentioned this is a proposed property resoning from P public to R3 residential this is a property at 3807 gel Road it's Union Cemetery uh the parcel or the cemeter is currently consist of two Parcels right now that run essentially uh North south what is proposed is the northern 6.4 Acres of these Parcels will be reconfigured into essentially more of a a north south now um Lots with the northern portion being reasoned to R3 from that P public uh Union Cemetery has indicated that um they do not see the need or use of this land in the future particular with the um increase the last number of years with cremations so what they're hoping to do is have this property rezoned to an R3 residential and at that point be able to market the property for potential sale to a future developer at that time all the properties is adjacent to the cemetery R zoned R3 so this would be in keeping with the surroundings as they are to today [28:57] Councilor John Geissler: thank you do we have any questions or comments from Council uh just one uh Eric can you remind uh myself and maybe others the uh we've had two other similar requests in the past couple of years correct [29:21] Eric Johnson: yes it is correct uh the most recent one was Bethany Cemetery that is uh just a little bit to the uh south and west of this uh in that case was the exact same thing uh Cemetery had excess land uh that property was reson to R3 and eight Lots after the fact were then created from a residential standpoint the other one being up at sunrise Cemetery uh there's a large portion of land in their Western portion uh the the owner of the cemetery approached the city for having two 1 acre Parcels reson in that case to Commercial and uh there's been some interest some development of those particular Parcels right there [30:11] Councilor Brian LeBlanc: okay thank you anyone else what can be done with that land as it's currently zoned beside the cemetery [30:19] Eric Johnson: it's currently zoned there's really what five or six type of uses with that um right now obviously one is not residential uh basically other government type of buildings out weigh things such as golf courses Nature's things of that nature Parkland Etc Library hospital [30:45] Councilor Brian LeBlanc: and um what can be put in the R3 [30:48] Eric Johnson: in the R3 it's primarily guided for single family residential and any accessory uses I.E um accessory buildings that way uh you could have a school you could have a hospital associated with something like that in an R3 um so that's primarily the use of the R3 is is residential development [31:06] Mayor Wayne Boucher: thank you any other questions from Council now we will open it up for public input if anyone wishes to to comment on this if you're in Chambers approach the podium and start with your name and address if you're online start with your name and address go ahead sir [31:21] Greg Zimmerman: uh Greg Zimmerman 3855 gacho road I don't can I ask a question first I don't did you say the lots are going to run north south on that property [31:31] Eric Johnson: the propos split would uh I take that back there'd be a dividing line running East West so there'll be a North portion and there will be a south portion the south portion will contain the Cemetery as it is the northern 6.4 acres is what would be if a develop or redevelop excuse me rezoning goes forward that would be the land that would be put up for sale [31:51] Greg Zimmerman: okay um thank you so I just want to I know it's kind of interesting that tonight that U there's a group ahead of us talking about assessments and was was interesting to learn that the um city now only charges $9,750 for pretty much any project going on um because about it's probably been about 13 years ago there's probably about 13 I think it was 13 residents of us uh paid uh we were assessed $26,000 to um redo our road run redo the road run Su water up there um which I personally am still paying on that um but yet the cemetery didn't have to pay anything for that project the burden was output on that probably increased our share of that but it was a very Hefty assessment uh for today and even for that time especially um so I don't know that it's right that uh Cemetery should be able to profit by this and there are some indications that there's going to be more than single family residents in there um but I think to maintain the the Integrity of the neighborhood and and especially since um because the residents there living there now mostly that uh paid for that to improve that property to make it profitable for somebody else to come in there and and develop um just doesn't really sit right I mean um it also looks to me like that property is already flagged for something more than single family homes in there so um probably the I'm sure there's going to be more discussion on this in the near future but uh I think some consideration should be made to the residents for making the Improvement on that on that road um one way to do that in a really simple way would be to not approve the resoning so uh so I got thank thank you [33:51] Mayor Wayne Boucher: thank you um we can't speak to the specifics of your questions about the previous assessments and what they were for and how the project was assessed we don't have that information in front of us at this time but we can have staff get back to you on some of those specific questions if you'd like uh you did say that the previous assessment was for Road sewer and water and a $20,000 assessment is something that's typical when when sewer is put in uh my own assessment was 22,000 just for sewer no water no road but um we can answer those specific questions for you on the methodology that was used when that project was done uh we'd be more than willing to do that um is there anyone else in the chambers that wishes to speak to us at this time please start with your name and address [35:01] William Han: good evening Mr Mayor and Council William Han 3840 gel road we in we own the house right across the street the pretty little pond that's on the property uh Greg has some really good concerns for the overall Community I'm going to be a little bit more selfish uh after several procedural snafus we finally hear Round number three we get a a chance to speak our peace I appreciate the clandestin education that several people gave us on when we should be providing comments so I guess here it goes um I'm concerned that if the across the street from my house which is a wetland is developed it is wetland yeah you go there it's a marsh there's a swamp I'd like to see the Wetland assessment either way uh I know the one was done it was referenced in some of the city paperwork but uh when that land's developed additional drainage or some something's going to have to be done in order to get that marsh land into a more uh suitable condition for for property at least uh that's what I assume is going to happen and what's going to happen when that water is drained out is my property the water table I can I feel it's going to drop and it's going to make my pond go away and we have a lot of uh Wildlife that live in our pond turtles fish Ducks we had a duck out there earlier today couple muskrats and some other some other uh Wildlife that we kind of enjoy that's why we bought the house was for the rural get out of the city uh the where we can raise our kids out in the country uh that's what I appreciate about the property I'd hate to see it turn into the next strip mall or a hospital complex or whatever else uh re Remax wants to do with it I have no idea but uh I would like to preserve the Integrity of the property if we can and then again if we could see that uh Wetland assessment I would like to see that thank you [36:49] Mayor Wayne Boucher: thank you is there anyone anyone else that would like to speak to the council okay perfect [37:05] Nancy Deaver: my name is Nancy dver I live at 3868 gel Road um I am Downstream if you would from down literally down at the hill the bottom of the hill where the development is going on and even though it won't directly impact my where I live it's going to impact the whole area and that includes my Wetlands my area that I've been very careful to um bring back with native plants and um pollinator Gardens things that would mitigate um the the um ditches overflowing I've solved that problem in one year with the right plants and I know because I walk past that area every day I have three major concerns the first is that there is a wetland there right in front of um Bill's house and to the the house to the South and in the time I've lived there it has overflowed in the kinds of winters and springs we had but it always receded because there was um the the correct grass and you know Reeds and um Cattails growing there to keep it from FL it would go over this it would go over the road well when you start developing thing water doesn't go up it squishes down where is that water going to end up where is it going to be mitigated for so that it won't um not just cause problems with the road but cause problems with people's basements who live in the area the pond across the road from it and the people who live there um they all have to you know think twice about water problems showing up so that's one thing because and that water's going to come downhill to where I live eventually fortunately I don't have a basement to worry about but it will impact any development will impact the water flow the invisible water flow I have a hydrology background that we don't always see the flow of water goes recedes and depending on what's built what's growing there and how the land is treated the second thing I'm really concerned about let me get back to finish the other one that again it the area holds Wildlife a lot of deer hang out in there um there because of the Wetland there's a lot of um it's a frog Nursery in the spring I mean literally it's a great place to go up and see a lot of frog baby frogs hanging out um so that is the um n the when you c talk about national natural resources that's my first concern my second concern is the amount of traffic that this road even if it's just a few houses built there it's going to be pretty it's a very narrow road if you've and most of you know geel Road there's not a much not much room to jump into a ditch to avoid a car I mean they're literally I love to walk my dogs there I see people from coming Way South of us and north of us walking Geto because it is a it's still a pretty quiet Road they're not walking on ster um and I wonder what's going to happen to that when all the large trucks and um extra um cars will be bringing you know doing the work and then even depending on how many places are built there it's um pretty much known in um when you're if you know anything about urban and rural um roadways and things like that that for every house new house built it puts up to four car four cars uh new cars new vehicles up and down because most people have two cars they might have the babysitter coming in they might have cleaning lady they might have you know but it's an average of four cars join that you know little little patch of road we have that really concerns me because so far it's a pretty safe place for me to enjoy walking because there are no as you know we know we don't have sidewalks there so that really concerns me um and also I've seen a lot of damage on the road the middle of it where the yellow line is is split now is splitting now and I know lot of that is freezing and snow pack and everything like that but I can only imagine the the trucks and um the big trucks and excavator um trucks and that have been going up and down Geto road for the um growing um development on Anderson Road to the east they come they're they use our road to get through quick and so I've seen a lot of Road deterioration and I can't even I don't dare go out on that road when they're going up and down and they don't slow down by the way if somebody could tell me how to get a 30 m an hour um on that road I would I'd be really happy because there's no sign that tells anybody how fast they can go on that road I'm I've it's up farther north but in our area it's it's kind of become um sort of a you know race weight and even for the trucks and they that I and that's just grad that's just development around the corner not right on the road I can I just don't even want to think about the noise and the degradation of the road itself during um a large development um so those are the two Mo most important things I'm really concerned about and they go together and it's not just nature it's culture it's our um quiet little road suddenly turning not so quiet thank you [43:08] Mayor Wayne Boucher: thank you is there anyone else that wishes to speak to the council if so please state your name and address [43:21] Carissa Han: hi my name is Carissa Han and I'm at 3840 gel Road and when we came to the zoning Commission meeeting in October we uh requested reports on any kind of um evaluation of the property across the street because we're concerned about those trees coming out and where the water's going to go we haven't we don't know how to get access to those reports when they are done and um what would be our next step it seems to us that the decision has probably been made that it's going to be approved so we want to know what our next step is to um identify like uh what kind of development may go across the street so thanks [44:07] Mayor Wayne Boucher: we'll go over that question when the public input is done is there anyone else either in Chambers are online that wishes to speak to the council [44:22] Jonathan Thornton: but uh my name is Jonathan Thornton and I live at 5869 Hermantown Road I am here to represent the Union Cemetery Association uh and I'm representing them currently as the as a seller representative for this property and I just wanted to to make you aware that uh at this point um there has been no conversations with any anyone other than single family residential builders that's those the only conversations we've had now as you know with R3 zoning that can change you know once it gets changed R3 the buyer is chosen and the buyer can do what what fits within the R3 zoning uh but as of today I have not had any conversations with anybody other than single family home builders uh the other thing I wanted to make sure that you're aware of is that this is being sold by a cemetery Association and the cemetery Association uh there's no individual in within this board that is going to financially gain from this decision and from the sale of this property uh the funds that are going to come into the board and they will be dispersing those funds to maintain the cemetery on ongoing basis they're figuring for potentially 10 to 20 years into the future based on these proceeds from the sale but in no way are they going to be taking this money and going to Tahiti okay so um this is what I've been told by the board is that it's here the money will be here to maintain the cemetery my understanding is is that uh if they do run out funds at some point in time in the future that this now reverts back to the county or the city I'm not exactly sure how that works but uh that burden would then be back on some type of a governmental agency if in fact that Cemetery went defunct so just wanted to make sure you're aware of that uh we we've had lots of conversations with Eric uh we've had conversations with other City staff uh we've done our homework we've done the things in the proper way uh we've actually done the Wetland delineation that was I don't think even required at this point um but all of that information has been made available to the city um and and I just you know with the Precedence of of the other cemeteries in the area that have gone through this process uh I would ask you to uh accept the rezoning of this to R3 thank you [46:58] Mayor Wayne Boucher: thank you is there anyone else that wishes to speak to the councel any questions from councelors I've got one for Mr Johnson uh if anybody else I was just hoping that Mr Johnson could kind of explain the next steps uh Eric first of all is there a wetland deliniation that has been done and uh how do things go forward if somebody were going to try and develop this [47:23] Eric Johnson: great thank you yes it is correct a wetland delineation has been done uh within what the past four to six weeks uh this was reviewed and approved by the Hermon technical evaluation panel uh there is a wetland that essentially uh runs from the northern property land to the southern property land in the middle of the property there's a small Wetland spur that goes off towards gel road but that's at the extreme South edge of this subject 6.4 Acres that we're talking about is approximately 150 to 180 feet uh basically from the binous edge of getchel that runs to that uh easterly property easterly border of this Wetland area area so there is Upland that exists between Geto Road and this Wetland so assuming there is a resoning of this property to R3 um anybody who would come in uh would have to discuss with staff basically what they plan to do with this property um there is the ability to administratively split this property if there's three New Lots or less uh if there's anything greater than that it would require a public process IE either a plat or a PUD in those instances an application would be made the surrounding Property Owners within 350 ft of this property uh would be notified in the case of both a plat and a PUD a public notice sign is required to be placed on that property as well as uh there's um uh notice in the public paper as well For an upcoming meeting so what happens then is there would be a public hearing at the Planning and Zoning meeting Planning and Zoning would make a recommendation that would then come forth to the city council for an action at that point uh as Mr Thorton had said that there's been some interested parties in this but to date no one has gone any further than asking questions [49:23] Mayor Wayne Boucher: are the results of the Wetland delineation available to the public if they stopped in [49:28] Eric Johnson: uh they can look at it if they want a physical copy of the delineation report of public data request to be made okay but they could view it at city office that is correct they can look at it over the count and they could take notes that is correct take their phone out and photograph it if they'd like [49:43] Mayor Wayne Boucher: okay uh so that information is available yes it is is that is that delineation placed on our maps on our website yet [49:51] Eric Johnson: that is something that we're working towards through the gis process so right now I always inform people on the both the county and the cities we have what's called National Wetland inventory I always tell people that's a guide and until that has actually been ground truth like for instance this one has that that's always a guide [50:11] Mayor Wayne Boucher: okay thank you any other questions from Council [50:15] Councilor Andy Hjelle: I just want to reassure myself so if it's three lots or less there's no public process [50:23] Eric Johnson: that's correct we can administratively split the property you take that 6.4 acres and divide it into three lots and in essence have two acre lots that is correct yes process but if they want to put in more than that then it's the public process it triggers the public process yes if they go if say they split it into three lots and they wanted a building permit they still have to deal with the wetlands if they're if there are any impacts yes they would if they stay out of those Wetland areas then there's no further action it's an approved delineation that's good for five years [51:06] Councilor Andy Hjelle: I have a question on the procedural part of um and I don't know if you can speak to this but the assessment from the cemetery prior that the gentleman had spoke about what procedurally why would that that the cemetery not have been assessed [51:24] Mayor Wayne Boucher: I can answer that is I was not here at this at this time but I'm s I'm guessing like I and I'm simply guessing at this point is that it was not assessed for sewer and water because there's no sewer and water connections to the cemetery so typically you can't assess the property if it's not getting any benefit there'd be no benefit for them to have sewer and water but they wouldn't have been assessed they would have been assessed for the road though I like I say I don't know what was all involved in that typically those assessments were not separated by Road Water and Sewer it was was just one so when we do project 442 people who lived on that got sewer and and a road and we didn't break it out between one or the other and I I'm trying to have a little bit of a recollection of the sewer process in that area I seem to remember the first two homes from Hermon Road already had been connected to the Hermantown Road when the sewer was put in further and I'm not sure the exact nuances of where it was put in but uh the construction documents would have to be reviewed to answer any specific questions on that okay [52:39] Councilor Andy Hjelle: so a followup to that has there been a cemetery where that the Deferred maintenance or any type of operating maintenance comes back to the city [52:49] Mayor Wayne Boucher: not yet so this is one of those circumstances where um to speak to the gentleman's point if this gets put back on the tax base this becomes an issue that the city has to deal with for ongoing maintenance is that correct could it it's not clear yet we'd have to have our attorney research that also that's that simp that's the mayor's absolutely right that's not that simple of an answer um you'd have to look at all of the the conditions of that and so it's like that's not and it may not even be the city it could be the county uh we have the same type of questions when trailer parks are closed down uh and what what's done with them as far as placing the people in new homes and things so there it's a complicated answer [53:40] Councilor Andy Hjelle: okay and so if this being if we approve this um which was unanimously recommended by Planning and Zoning um if there is a larger development that is um planned the public will have input on that part as well right now we're just changing the zoning requirements anything greater than a three lot split is this area in the Tiff District that we redrew [54:09] Eric Johnson: I don't believe it is it is in the within the development agreement but not the Tiff District so it's Tiff eligible they'd have to apply for Tiff yes [54:19] Councilor Andy Hjelle: what I'm trying to think of how to phrase this um I think I've made my opinion on puds and apartment buildings very known um what ability does the council have to direct how this property is developed in the future if any [54:35] Eric Johnson: zoning zoning [54:38] Councilor Andy Hjelle: but if at R3 it's it's already approved for multif family dwellings [54:43] Eric Johnson: no in homes no in homes no you can you can have a twin home with the special use permit okay but it's not like they couldn't nobody could buy that and build an apartment building one if they did they'd have to try to they'd have to go through the planned unit development process most likely scenario is single family homes then [55:04] Councilor John Geissler: hopefully any other questions from Council my only other comment was to tag onto what Mr Thorton said is that cemetery is in need of some repairs if you look at their fence and those brick pillars that support the fence they're falling they're I think they're doing the best they can with limited resources so I'm thinking that they don't have a lot of cash and this might help them hopefully continue to maintain it for the next however many years but that was to me that was good information to know about the information that you shared with us also knowing that not one individual is profiting or benefiting from this I think that was important to know and something else that maybe staff could look into if this is a approved is did we place availability fees on the property pursuer and water [55:58] City Administrator John Mulder: uh that's something that happens quite often when uh assessments are deferred specifically to that um mayor is that we we'd want to look at whether or not an availability was created if availability was not created the city has a policy that says um individual sewer connections um after the fact is a $5,000 availability fee okay so if again I don't know if there's existing availability fees on this parcel um but if there were not and they went to build three homes each home would have to pay $5,000 to um have access to the store [56:56] Councilor Brian LeBlanc: do Twin Homes have to pay 10 [56:58] City Administrator John Mulder: that typically that's how we've done it connection and and I make the distinction we we have this distinction all the time a twin home being two separate homes each with its own connection would each pay 5,000 yeah a duplex which only has one connection would pay 5,000 [57:16] Councilor Brian LeBlanc: they would need a they would need us to vote on a duplex though right isn't that how kind of what we just did on uh we just voted on that twin home as a special use per [57:24] Eric Johnson: exactly we kind of use the all-encompassing term two family home okay that covers both duplexes and Twin Homes out way and that is a special use maybe it was the septic issue that we voted on a variance for the septic I think is what it was [57:43] Mayor Wayne Boucher: anything else from Council we're at the point where we need a roll call [57:48] City Clerk Alissa McClure: Councilor Jones? (hi) Councilor Geissler? (hi) Councilor Hjelle? (hi) Councilor LeBlanc? (hi) Mayor Boucher? (hi) [58:04] Mayor Wayne Boucher: next we move to resolutions resolution Statewide volunteer firefighter pension coverage for the Hermantown fire department effective as of January 1st 2024 is there a motion [58:19] Councilor John Geissler: move to approve [58:20] Mayor Wayne Boucher: motion by councelor gisler is there a second [58:22] Councilor Brian LeBlanc: second [58:24] Mayor Wayne Boucher: second by councelor Leah Mr Moulder [58:26] City Administrator John Mulder: so approving this resolution would allow um our new unpaid our paid on call um employees to be covered with the same uh pension benefit that our current volunteers do so we want to provide that benefit to our new unpaid on call paid volunteer firefighters so um that's what we're recommending [58:49] Mayor Wayne Boucher: thank you any questions or comments from Council is there any public input on this resolution if so start with your name and address is there any public input on resolution 2023 d146 there any public input on the resolution joining the Statewide volunteer firefighter pension roll call please [59:08] City Clerk Alissa McClure: Councilor LeBlanc? (I) Councilor Jones? (I) Councilor Geissler? (I) Councilor Hjelle? (I) Mayor Boucher? (I) [59:22] Mayor Wayne Boucher: resolution 2023-24 resolution authorizing and directing the mayor and city clerk to execute and deliver the fire Services transition agreement between the Hermantown volunteer fire department and the City of Hermantown is there a motion [59:38] Councilor Jones: move to approve [59:39] Mayor Wayne Boucher: motion by councelor Jones is there a second [59:41] Councilor John Geissler: second [59:43] Mayor Wayne Boucher: second by councelor gisler Mr Moulder [59:45] City Administrator John Mulder: this is simply an agreement between the Hermon volunteer fire department and the city to just how we going to figure out exactly how we transition from the volunteer department to the city Department including including you know how we transfer assets liabilities um how we're covering Insurance how we're covering the vehicles things like that [1:00:15] Mayor Wayne Boucher: thank you any questions or comments from Council is there any public input on this resolution is there any public input on the resolution for the fire Services transition agreement we have any public input on resolution 223-4738 resolution receiving bids and approving Award of contract to Northstar insulating Systems Incorporated for the labor and materials needed to insulate the attic of the administration in the amount of not to exceed $150,000 to have a motion [1:01:04] Councilor Andy Hjelle: motion to approve [1:01:06] Mayor Wayne Boucher: motion by councelor jelly is there a second [1:01:08] Councilor Jones: second [1:01:09] Mayor Wayne Boucher: second by councelor Jones Mr Moulder [1:01:12] City Administrator John Mulder: as you know we've been talking about the um issue of ice bams that appear um on the um this building um for the last you know nine months um in terms of how we might try to fix that we have a new rough um and um we want to make sure that we protect that investment so we've last month we um approved a contractor to put in heat tape to re um reduce the amount of ice that accumulates um we believe that this insulation will also help uh reduce the heat loss and then also the accumulation of ice as well so this is our the recommendation is to have this insulation um installed [1:02:00] Mayor Wayne Boucher: thank you any questions or comments from Council [1:02:03] Councilor John Geissler: my only comment when I should have asked earlier but with the uh building official leaving and looking for a new a building official will Braun have some inspections or observations to kind of keep things on task [1:02:16] City Administrator John Mulder: yes we're going to have Braun involved um we've also have um hellberg engineering um because they did some of the electrical um stuff so they'll be on site and we've also been kind of um having Greg the maintenance person um be involved in some of the pre construction meetings before Adam leaves we're going to try to have a pre-construction meeting with the installation company [1:02:44] Councilor John Geissler: okay is there a county or a state inspector that could pick up the slack [1:02:49] City Administrator John Mulder: we're gonna have Jim Rich for a while yeah we we'll we've got we'll have a contract with h Jim R for that inum period [1:02:58] Mayor Wayne Boucher: thank you good to have the installation inspected this time around so we don't have the same problem any other comments there any public input on this resolution any public input on the decision to spend an amount not to exceed $150,000 to Northstar insulating systems there any public input on resolution 2023-24 roll call please [1:03:31] City Clerk Alissa McClure: Councilor Hjelle? (I) Councilor LeBlanc? (I) Councilor Jones? (Aye) Councilor Geissler? (hi) Mayor Boucher? (hi) [1:03:44] Mayor Wayne Boucher: resolution 2023 D 149 resolution approving change orders number 15 through 16 for Road Improvement District number 534 ugad and Arrowhead roads is there a motion [1:03:57] Councilor Andy Hjelle: motion to approve [1:03:58] Councilor John Geissler: second [1:03:59] Mayor Wayne Boucher: motion by councelor jelly second by councelor gisler Mr Moulder should we have our city engineer explain this one [1:04:06] City Administrator John Mulder: sure that'd be great [1:04:10] David Bol (City Engineering): Mr B yes thank you mayor and Council so these two change orders are work associated with um our road reconstruction of ugad Road the first one is um we had some various hydrants and valves that needed to be adjusted that were were not part of the initial plan and change order 16 is for um work along the um storm sewer there was a Excuse excuse me there's a conflict with the Lumen centry link line and there was some extra work that had to be done to work around that utility so those are the the two small chain orders [1:04:50] Mayor Wayne Boucher: thank you thank you any questions or comments from Council is there any public input on this resolution if so state your name and address any public input on resolution [Music] 2023-24 roll call please [1:05:18] City Clerk Alissa McClure: Councilor LeBlanc? (hi) Councilor Jones? (Aye) Councilor Geissler? (hi) Councilor Hjelle? (hi) Mayor Boucher? (hi) [1:05:31] Mayor Wayne Boucher: resolution 2023-24 to uland Brothers Incorporated in the amount of $833,000 49 do we have a motion [1:05:51] Councilor Brian LeBlanc: move to approve [1:05:53] Mayor Wayne Boucher: motion by councelor lah is there a second [1:05:55] Councilor Jones: second [1:05:57] Mayor Wayne Boucher: second by councelor Jones any explanation needed on this Mr Moulder [1:06:01] City Administrator John Mulder: just the next pay app [1:06:03] Mayor Wayne Boucher: thank you you any questions or comments from Council is there any public input on this resolution is there any public input on the approval of pay request number five for Road Improvement District number 534 any public comment on resolution 2023-24 roll call please [1:06:33] City Clerk Alissa McClure: Councilor Geissler? (hi) Councilor Hjelle? (hi) Councilor LeBlanc? (hi) Councilor Jones? (Aye) Mayor Boucher? (hi) [1:06:45] Mayor Wayne Boucher: resolution 2023-the Construction Incorporated for 2023 sewer sewer Improvement District number 544 stebner Park improvement district sewer water and Road in the amount of $344,450 is there a motion [1:07:08] Councilor John Geissler: move to approve [1:07:09] Mayor Wayne Boucher: motion by councelor gisler do we have a second [1:07:11] Councilor Jones: second [1:07:13] Mayor Wayne Boucher: second by councelor Jones Mr mher um maybe David Bol can explain uh this process [1:07:17] David Bol (City Engineering): so so mayor and counil this is um our bid for the utilities on stemer Park Drive that's the the roadway into stemer park this consists of water and sewer to serve the uh southern part of the park uh where Lots or uh Fields four and five are and so we're bringing the water to um the water and sewer will both be on the east side of the road in the Green Space we have a couple of uh Crossings of the road and a small piece that crosses the the parking lot so we had uh I believe seven bids at our bid opening and the the bid results are are part of the packet here and the low bidder was uh Northern interstate and uh we reviewed the bids and they all checked out so it's my recommendation that we award this to Northern interstate construction [1:08:18] Councilor Brian LeBlanc: thank you any questions or comments from Council maybe just to add for public uh understanding is that this is just the utility pipe and the road workor would be done through a separate project next year correct should the road be taken out of this resolution [1:08:34] David Bol (City Engineering): the road the road mentioning in the is for the improvement district as a whole okay it's only partial work for the whole project [1:08:44] Mayor Wayne Boucher: gotcha any other questions or comments there any public input on this resolution any public input on resolution 2023-the Councilor Hjelle? (I) Councilor LeBlanc? (I) Councilor Jones? (Aye) Councilor Geissler? (hi) Mayor Boucher? (hi) [1:09:44] Mayor Wayne Boucher: resolution 2023-24 for Road Improvement District number 538 to uland Brothers Incorporated in the amount of 644,000 [1:10:04] City Administrator John Mulder: sure or it's just another it's just an next pay app in this project okay and this is the this is the marketplace Richard lingren Richard lingren project [1:10:14] Mayor Wayne Boucher: thank you any questions or comments from Council hearing none is there any public input on this resolution any public input on resolution approving pay request number four for Road Improvement District number 53 is there any public input on resolution 2023-the move to close [1:11:15] Councilor Brian LeBlanc: motion by Councilor LeBlanc [1:11:16] Mayor Wayne Boucher: or second [1:11:17] Councilor Andy Hjelle: second [1:11:18] Mayor Wayne Boucher: second by Councilor Hjelle all in favor say I (I) oppose same sign at the end of the closed session we will return to open session where we will then recess probably till the 24th at a time to be determined