This transcript is for a meeting of the **Hermantown Planning and Zoning Commission** (the transcript mistakenly says "Hermitage"). Based on the names and roles provided, here is the transcribed text with speaker names identified. [0:04] **Joe Peterson (Chair):** All right, good evening everybody. Can you guys hear me out there? Okay, excellent. It's seven o'clock in the evening. We're going to start the City of Hermantown Planning and Zoning Commission meeting. It's September 21st, 2021. Now we're going to do a roll call. Bobby Simmons? Here. Corey Colquist? Is not here. Valerie Ouellette? Yeah. Senator Clark? Who's not here. Shannon Jorgensen? (via remote) Here I am. John Geissler? Here. Thank you for that. Second up this evening is an approval of the agenda. [0:57] **Joe Peterson (Chair):** Three this evening is the approval of the minutes from the August 17th, 2021 regular meeting. Can I get a motion on that, please? **Beth Winslow:** Motion. **Joe Peterson (Chair):** Can we get a second? **Bobby Simmons:** Second. **Joe Peterson (Chair):** Number four is public discussion. Is anybody here this evening to speak on something that's not already on this evening's agenda? [1:29] **Joe Peterson (Chair):** This evening's public hearings. 5a is an application by Luke Chance for a special use permit for the construction of a two-family home at 4012 Ugstad Road. [1:44] **Eric Johnson (Community Development Director):** Great, thank you. And actually, I'm going to roll back one more. I'd like to make an announcement that some of you may have received a notice in the mail on a special use permit at 5350 Miller Trunk Highway for the purpose of a special use permit for a mini storage facility. That has been withdrawn from the agenda for this evening. More than likely, we anticipate that coming forward on the October meeting. So, for any of you here for that one at 5350 Miller Trunk Highway, that will not be on tonight's agenda. Great, thank you. Getting back into this, this is a special use permit for a two-family residential structure. It's located in an R3 zoning district. The property is located at 4012 Ugstad Road. If you recall, members of the P&Z, approximately 2-3 months ago, this property had been subdivided into a flag lot. What is before us this evening is basically what we call the parent property. It was the initial property that had the existing structure on it. What the applicant is proposing to do is to remove that existing structure and in its place build a two-family residential structure. This property is approximately 2.2 acres in size. There are some wetlands located approximately 175 feet east of Ugstad Road. We will require that the applicant at least delineate or mark the edges of that wetland, particularly as it relates to the future building of this structure. That way, assuming it is approved, this lot does meet all the requirements of the R3 zoning in regards to two-family homes as far as lot width, setbacks, and lot size. That way, once again, if this is recommended this evening, this would go then to the October 4th City Council meeting for City Council's ultimate decision at that point. Thank you very much. [3:17] **Joe Peterson (Chair):** Eric. Luke Chance is the applicant here this evening? If you are, could you please come up, state your name and address for the record, and give us any information you'd like to give. [3:45] **Luke Chance (Applicant):** Luke Chance, 4072 Ugstad Road. We live about 600 feet down the road from this property. My mother-in-law was suffering from the onset of dementia and so we're looking to build a residence for her and my father-in-law to live in. They are divorced but very comfortable with one another. It puts them closer to the grandkids, closer to us. [4:43] **Joe Peterson (Chair):** Perfect, sir. Commission members, any questions for Luke this evening? Any questions for Eric this evening? **Bobby Simmons:** So, if I understand this right, it's not going to be used as a flag lot then, or...? **Eric Johnson (Community Development Director):** Yeah, this property has already been subdivided. So this is the 2.2 original piece. The flag lot is already a new lot of record and that is not what is before us this evening. It's the 2.2-acre lot. **Joe Peterson (Chair):** All right, thank you. Thank you for that, Luke. I don't think any of the rest of us have any questions. We're going to have a public hearing here and if there are any questions that come up, perhaps you can answer them for us. Okay, thank you. [5:29] **Joe Peterson (Chair):** We're going to open it up for a public hearing at 7:06 this evening. Is anybody here to speak on this matter? Not seeing any, we will close the floor at 7:06 as well. Commission members, this is your chance for any other questions or comments on this this evening. Without hearing any, I look for a motion on 5a this evening. **Beth Winslow:** Move to approve. **Joe Peterson (Chair):** We have a motion to approve. Can we get a second? **Bobby Simmons:** Second. **Joe Peterson (Chair):** We have a second. All in favor? **Commission:** Aye. **Joe Peterson (Chair):** Motion passes. Thank you very much, sir. Next up this evening is 5b. It's an application by Barb Struck for a subdivision to create a 100-foot parcel of one acre and a four-acre lot accessed by way of a flag line that's 65 feet wide at 3965 Haynes Road. Property is located in our R3 zoning districts. Eric, what do you have for us on this one this evening? [6:30] **Eric Johnson (Community Development Director):** Great, thank you. Similar to what we've seen the last couple months here, this is a flag lot proposal for this lot along Haynes Road. This is an existing five-acre lot and the frontage on the property is approximately 165 feet in width. So, what is being proposed today is a lot creation of 100 by approximately 403 feet for about one acre in size. That lot will contain the existing home that is on that property right now. And then there's also a flag lot that will be created from that parcel. Basically, we always classify these flag lots as two different things: the "pole" portion, which actually contains the driveway and has frontage on the roadway (in this case, that flag line is approximately 65 feet wide by 403 feet), and then the "flag" lot, which is 165 by 914 feet. All told, that's approximately four acres. There's an existing garage house pictured that's within this pole portion of the lot right now that will be required to be demolished prior to any residential permits associated with the lot. [7:46] **Joe Peterson (Chair):** Perfect, Eric. Thank you very much. Commission members, any questions or comments for Eric on this so far? Not hearing any, is the applicant here this evening? Could you come on up, state your name and address for the record, and tell us a little bit about your project and see if we have any questions for you? [8:15] **Barb Struck (Applicant):** Barb Struck, 3997 Haynes Road is my address. 3965 is the one I'm proposing. I don't have anything additional to add. Nothing planned for the use of the lot when it's split. **Joe Peterson (Chair):** Just a couple homes? **Barb Struck (Applicant):** No, I'm just gonna keep it. No plans. **Joe Peterson (Chair):** Perfect. Commission members, any questions for her? Thank you. Not seeing any, ma'am. Thank you. [8:45] **Joe Peterson (Chair):** We're going to open up the floor for a public discussion on this matter. It is currently 7:09 in the evening. Is anybody here to ask any questions or speak on this particular matter? Not seeing any, we will close the floor at 7:09 p.m. Commission members, any other questions or comments on this this evening? Then I will look for a motion on 5b. **Beth Winslow:** Make a motion to accept this. **Joe Peterson (Chair):** We have a first. Can we get a second? **Bobby Simmons:** Second. **Joe Peterson (Chair):** All in favor? **Commission:** Aye. **Joe Peterson (Chair):** Motion passes. Thank you very much, ma'am. [9:18] **Joe Peterson (Chair):** 5c is an application by Jesse Stokey for an amendment to the development plan associated with the Pineview development for the purpose of modifying the plan to accommodate a two-family home. Eric, what do you have for us on this one? [9:30] **Eric Johnson (Community Development Director):** Great, thank you. This development has a little bit of history here at the city. This was originally proposed back in 2004. At that time, it was envisioned that the Pineview development was entirely a twin-home development. A vast number of twin homes had been completed within that project. The housing market started drying up around 2008 or so, so in 2010 the developer at that time approached the City Council asking for the ability to have some single-family homes placed within this development in lieu of these twin-home properties. At that time in 2010, City Council was receptive to that and did make a modification to the development plan part of the PUD to allow for these single-family structures. There were no changes to the plat associated with it. The requirements were that two of the lots would need to be utilized for one single-family lot. When this was originally developed in 2004, individual lots were platted and utilities were installed to each property. The applicant before us now, Jesse Stokey, purchased two of these lots in the development earlier this summer and is now looking to essentially reverse back to the original plan from 2004, where he has the ability to construct the twin home on these two parcels in lieu of the single-family home. As I had mentioned before, this is what had been originally envisioned as part of that 2004 project. There's a twin home basically on both sides of this project, so it's in keeping with the rest of the neighborhood. As I said before, there are existing utilities to both lots, so the twin-home structure would be able to be served for each unit with its own individual utilities. What we're looking for this evening is an amendment to this development plan associated with the PUD. This would require City Council action on this October 4th meeting as well. [11:36] **Joe Peterson (Chair):** Thank you very much for that, Eric. Commission members, any comments or concerns about this one? Any questions for Eric? Not seeing any, is the applicant here this evening? Sir, come on up. Name and address for the record. Give us a little backstory, please. [11:55] **Jesse Stokey (Applicant):** Jesse Stokey, 4914 Trails End Drive. Basically, I think it was pretty much summed up there. I bought the property for the purpose of a twin home, and that's all I'm looking to do. I'm not looking to change anything else, just put what was originally in there and what's surrounding it now. **Joe Peterson (Chair):** Just out of curiosity, you're going to rent one side and live in one? Sell them both? **Jesse Stokey (Applicant):** I don't know. You know, I got my parents on the hook for one, I hope, and then maybe sell the other one. **Joe Peterson (Chair):** Perfect. Thank you very much for that. Commission members, any comments or questions for the applicant? Thank you very much, sir. [13:00] **Joe Peterson (Chair):** Okay, we're going to open up the floor at 7:13 for a public hearing on this matter. Is anybody here to speak on the twin-home application, which is 5c this evening? Not seeing any... oh, I'm sorry, I didn't see you back there. Come on up, please. State your name and address for the record. [13:14] **Bill (Neighbor):** Good evening. My name is Bill. I'm a resident at [address]. I have some questions here I'd like to address probably to the owner/builder. I'm sure he can probably answer them. Is that something you want to do privately or on the public record? I want to make sure the neighbors that are here as well understand. What you're trying to do—and I'm addressing you and you as well—what codes are you not following by what you're proposing to do? [14:10] **Eric Johnson (Community Development Director):** I guess the question is, when you say "codes," are you talking about building-related codes, zoning-related codes, or what? I guess I need a little clarification. **Bill (Neighbor):** Probably the zoning code. As you described the history of the property, it was all set up to handle homes and then because of the economics of the time, things were changed. It sounds like he's going back to the original plot. [15:15] **Jesse Stokey (Applicant):** Basically, I'm just looking for—I'm not looking to change the structure of your development. I'll just do it within the property lines. There's actually—this is for my ignorance too—the property there that's up for sale, it looks like there's two parcels. [16:27] **Joe Peterson (Chair):** Thank you very much, sir. Would anybody else like to come up and speak on this matter this evening? Everybody's good? Okay, then we're going to close the floor at 7:17 p.m. for 5c's public hearing. Commission members, any other questions or comments for Eric or the applicant on this one? Not seeing any, I look for a motion on 5c. **Beth Winslow:** I would move to approve 5c. **Joe Peterson (Chair):** We have a first. Can we get a second? **Bobby Simmons:** Simmons to second. **Joe Peterson (Chair):** All in favor? **Commission:** Aye. **Joe Peterson (Chair):** Motion passes. Thank you very much, sir. [17:15] **Joe Peterson (Chair):** Next up this evening, we're going to combine 5d and 5e. They're an application by Bmax Inc for a preliminary and final plat of 32.3 acres for the creation of a seven-lot land subdivision. This property is located at 5189 West Arrowhead Road in an R3 residential zoning district. So, by combining those, we'll have one vote this evening. Eric, what do you have for us on this one? **Eric Johnson (Community Development Director):** Actually, if I could ask Mr. Wicklund, is it possible for you to get the location map and the associated plat with this up on the screen, please? [18:07] **Eric Johnson (Community Development Director):** Great, perfect. We'll start right here. So what's before us this evening is a preliminary and final plat as well as a preliminary and final PUD. What the applicant, Bmax Inc, has done is they have purchased two properties in this area. One is located at 5189 West Arrowhead Road and the other one is located at 4371 Grouse Ridge Drive. These two properties have existing single-family homes on those. In between those two properties, they combine for approximately 32.3 acres in size. So, Joe, let's go to the plat. I believe it's the next one. Thank you. Just for a point of reference, Arrowhead Road is on basically the right-hand side of the screen and Grouse Ridge Drive is at the top of the screen. As I had mentioned, if we look at Lot 6 down in the lower right-hand corner, that's where the existing home at 5189 West Arrowhead is located at. And then on Lot 3, that's where 4371 Grouse Ridge Drive is located at. So, what the applicant is proposing this evening is taking these two lots that include 32.3 acres between them and reorientating the interior property lines in order to create seven residential lots. How they're able to come up with that is, right now the vast majority of this acreage is associated with 5189 West Arrowhead Road. What they're proposing—and I'll start down on Arrowhead Road—is that four lots will take access from Arrowhead Road. Lot 6 will have the existing home on it. Lot 5 will be a future R3 sized lot (100 feet of lot width and a half-acre lot size). Lots 4 and 7 are essentially flag-lot creations, and that's the reason for the PUD before us this evening. The PUD allows us to create multiple flag lots associated with this plat. It has nothing to do with any other sort of development. This evening before us is strictly a land subdivision project. Should something come further in the future, the city will also go through the same process where we notify property owners 1,000 feet around this property. There will also be public hearings at the Planning and Zoning like we're having this evening, and then ultimately it would go to the City Council for a vote. Now, as I move over to Grouse Ridge, right now that existing home parallels the entirety of Grouse Ridge. The applicant is proposing to reorientate that lot, particularly Lot 3, to have that existing home on it, and now that becomes a half-acre minimum size lot with the existing home. Lot 2, just to the north of that, is a potential future building lot associated with that (R3, 100 feet of frontage, half-acre in size). And then the large entirety of Lot 1. That is a parcel that, it's my understanding, is going to be potentially sold to an adjoining property owner who lives north of this, and that would be a flag-lot configuration. At this point, there's no plans for that lot; the city has not heard of any plans for that. As I mentioned before, this is strictly a lot subdivision taking 32.3 acres and turning it into seven new lots. Five of the lots will be for future homes, and two of the lots have existing homes. All the lots will be required to utilize city utilities. [22:47] **Joe Peterson (Chair):** Thank you for that, Eric. Commission members, any discussion or questions on this one so far this evening? **Bobby Simmons:** Just to clarify, I know you said it twice: this is just the subdivision, not any other wetland problems or anything else at that point? **Eric Johnson (Community Development Director):** That is correct. This is strictly the taking of two lots, combining them, and then reconfiguring them into seven lots. **John Geissler:** Eric, is Lot 4 and 7 basically just a flag lot? Is that what we're looking at doing there? **Eric Johnson (Community Development Director):** Joe, could I get that plat up again? Yes, that is correct. 4, 7, and 1 are essentially flag lots. [23:33] **Joe Peterson (Chair):** Commission members, any questions or comments again on this for Eric before we open it up to the applicant? Not hearing any, is the applicant here this evening? Please come up, state your name and address for the record, and give us a little backstory, please. [23:55] **Jay Zierden (Applicant - Bmax Inc):** I am Jay Zierden with Zierden Builders and also with Bmax Incorporated. I've been building homes in Hermantown for over 30 years. My address is 4571 Martin Road. I guess the plat is pretty self-explanatory. I bought these parcels and just reconfigured it so that the lots made more sense and it gives me an opportunity to build four new homes there as well as creates a developmental area for some time in the future. But that portion, Lot 1, I already have a purchase agreement on with one of the local residents there. So I don't have any intentions of developing that at this time, nor does the person that I'm selling to, to the best of my knowledge. [25:00] **Joe Peterson (Chair):** Commission members, any questions for Mr. Zierden this evening? None right now, Jay. You might be back up. Thank you. We're going to open up the floor at 7:26 p.m. for anybody that'd like to speak on this matter this evening on 5d or 5e. And just keep in mind that it's just a lot reconfiguration this evening; there's nothing else on the agenda. Would anybody like to come up and speak? [25:35] **Tanya Nichols (Neighbor):** Hi there. I'm Tanya Nichols. I'm at 5125 Cedar Ridge. I know the lot division is the only thing on the radar. I guess I'm curious is—is it possible to understand a little bit more clearly how some of those properties will be reached, or how future development would be reached? Like, what kind of roads would be coming in to access 4 and 7? [25:52] **Eric Johnson (Community Development Director):** As of right now, all seven of the lots are accessible off the existing infrastructure. As a part of this process, there are no other easements or anything to reach that backlog. Like I said, this is a lot subdivision; there's no development plans associated with this. Four of the lots will take access from Arrowhead Road and then three of the lots will take access from Grouse Ridge. **Tanya Nichols (Neighbor):** Help me understand the Grouse Ridge one again. Maybe I'm misunderstood. **Eric Johnson (Community Development Director):** Joe, could you bring the map back up on the screen, please? So, the existing home is Lot number 3. Number 2 is a potential building site there. And then Lot 1 is a potential building site. Joe, put your cursor up for Grouse Ridge. That's Grouse Ridge Road—your Grouse Ridge Drive at that portion. So those three lots are directly above Grouse Ridge Drive. **Tanya Nichols (Neighbor):** And so Number 1 is reached by some sort of—it'll be a legal lot, there's no road or anything like that? **Eric Johnson (Community Development Director):** It will have legal frontage onto Grouse Ridge by way of the Planned Unit Development. **Tanya Nichols (Neighbor):** Okay, so that's nothing that's worked out now? That's all when and if the project opened up and there needed to be a road come through, that would be up at that time? **Eric Johnson (Community Development Director):** If that ever came forward, that would be addressed at that time. And as I said, too, we would have the same format as this: property notified, property owners would be required to post a sign, we notify people associated with that. It would be a public hearing like we're doing here as well. **Tanya Nichols (Neighbor):** Are we allowed to express concerns about that here right now? [28:09] **Joe Peterson (Chair):** It honestly wouldn't be taken under consideration. It's just a lot split this evening. It might not ever come back to us. Tanya, I understand your concern if there's a future road going in and 30, 40, 50 lots back there, but there's no inclination of that happening today. **Tanya Nichols (Neighbor):** And really, it's just the 4 and 7 that eliminates the option for a road coming through there, which I think is a concern for us as homeowners. If a lot split happens, will that eliminate the possibility of the project coming in off of Arrowhead? That's our concern. And then all of a sudden the project comes in off of Grouse Ridge, which is just—I mean, I'm all for development, I'm a capitalist, but at the same time it just seems like it would be better to save some spot for it to be able to come through on Arrowhead. But thank you, I appreciate it. [29:05] **Joe Peterson (Chair):** I understand her concern. Anybody else would like to come up and speak this evening? Please come on up, state your name and address for the record. **Andrea (Neighbor):** Hi, my name is Andrea. I live at 4395 Grouse Ridge Drive. My question was about—I believe I read something on the sign that said something about a twin home. Is that for Lot 2? **Eric Johnson (Community Development Director):** No, Lot 2 will be a single-family home. **Andrea (Neighbor):** Okay, that was my only concern. Every lot in our neighborhood is a single-family home, so. Okay, thank you. [30:02] **Male Neighbor:** What I'm asking is Lot 5—did you say it was 100 feet wide? **Eric Johnson (Community Development Director):** Actually, I think it's a little wider than that. **Male Neighbor:** Lot 5 is off of Arrowhead. I know the depth is 220, and it's a minimum of 100 feet wide. If you build a home on that, the problem is with the setbacks. We just built a home and you have to have 45-foot setbacks. How are you going to get a house in here? **Eric Johnson (Community Development Director):** The setbacks in the side yard are a minimum of 10 feet in aggregate of 25. That's in the R3 zoning district. You might be in a different zoning district, but that's the R3 requirement. It's a half-acre minimum lot size, 50 feet of front yard, 40 feet of rear yard. **Male Neighbor:** I followed the rules you just gave, but on a 100-foot lot you couldn't follow those rules. **Eric Johnson (Community Development Director):** You could still have a 75-foot wide home essentially on that. It's our standard lot that we have in all of our subdivisions. [32:20] **Female Neighbor:** [Name], 5131 Cedar Ridge Drive. I know you can't talk about it, but I just want to say kind of collectively, I feel as a group we think it's kind of sneaky the way they're blocking off Arrowhead when we want that to be an access if there is going to be a large development that goes back there. I get it's not on the table now, but if it gets all landlocked, then where are they going to go? They're going to have to go through our neighborhood and that's I guess kind of some of our concern. We just want transparency with our neighborhood. By not talking about the development and pretending like it's not going to happen isn't helping that for us. It just seems very frustrating that we're saying, "Hey, if you're going to have a development, can you consider going off Arrowhead like they did by the hockey arena and leave kind of us alone and not increase traffic?" **Eric Johnson (Community Development Director):** There's no application, there's not been any discussion at staff level. We are being transparent with you and the neighbors. Honestly, if something comes through, the city staff will look at that and the ability to potentially get to Arrowhead. Part of it is how does this—when there's adjoining acreage to it—we look at options. **Female Neighbor:** We're worried that Cedar Ridge is going to get pushed out to live. If we're feeling like Arrowhead is being blocked off now, we're really feeling like all the traffic is going to be around on Grouse Ridge. **Jay Zierden (Applicant):** [Indistinguishable comment about Lot 1]. **Female Neighbor:** But if you do build back off Grouse Ridge off Lot 1, if he sells it back or you buy it back, you're gonna have to have a second outlet, right? Is that how it works? And then that would have to be our roads. [36:23] **Joe Peterson (Chair):** Anybody else this evening like to come up and speak? **Shannon Sweeney Jorgensen (Commission Member - remote):** My name is Shannon Sweeney Jorgensen and I am a member of this committee, but because I am not in attendance, I do not have a vote tonight. I do have some questions about this. My questions would be at this point, do we have a final map of what the lots within that Planned Unit Development would look like? [38:42] **Eric Johnson (Community Development Director):** Shannon, Eric Johnson here. The only reason this is a Planned Unit Development is because they have three flag lots associated with this. Traditionally, when you see Planned Unit Developments come forward, it means multiple homes, town homes, twin homes, whatever. But in this case, the rationale for the PUD—and this is worked with our City Attorney—is because there's three flag lots. If those lots had been 100 feet wide, this would have been a standard plat. **Shannon Sweeney Jorgensen:** Great, thank you so much for that clarification. [39:28] **Joe Peterson (Chair):** Thanks, Shannon. I wish you were here tonight. **Female Neighbor:** I do have a question. Lot 1—I realize we're not talking about developing that right now, but in 10 years if that were to be developed hypothetically, how would it be accessed? Would it have an access and an egress? **Eric Johnson (Community Development Director):** We'd have to look at a site specifically, but Lot 1 would have legal access onto Grouse Ridge. Until a time comes when there would be a proposal, that's all the information we have. [41:40] **Amy Abernathy (Neighbor):** Amy Abernathy, 4366 Grouse Ridge. I just have a question. Is within this development of this new division, is there any easements or anything being put on any of the properties to get back into that property? **Eric Johnson (Community Development Director):** That's what the creation of Lot 1 does. Lot 1 is probably 18 acres in size. And that has—this would have legal access onto Grouse Ridge. So there's no other needs for easements. Someday, there could be a single-family home there. **Amy Abernathy (Neighbor):** Can I ask Mr. Zierden a question? The twin homes—it says there's four single-family lots, are those on Arrowhead? **Jay Zierden (Applicant):** Yes. **Amy Abernathy (Neighbor):** And then the twin home lots, are those going to be on Grouse Ridge? **Eric Johnson (Community Development Director):** Those are the ones on Arrowhead. All that's being proposed is three lots on Grouse Ridge: the existing single-family home, the home to the north of it (Lot 2), and then Lot 1 which is the large 18-acre flag lot. [43:02] **Tanya Nichols (Neighbor):** Would it be reasonable—I mean if Lot 1 isn't going to be developed right now anyways—is it reasonable to not give Lot 1 legal access to Grouse Ridge? **Eric Johnson (Community Development Director):** We do not have the ability to create a lot without access. We'd be creating a landlocked parcel, which we cannot do. [46:55] **Female Neighbor:** [Name], Grouse Ridge. I guess I just have a couple questions about the twin-home lots. Currently, we don't have any twin homes in the area. I guess my question is why are they being put in in this location? **Eric Johnson (Community Development Director):** Twin homes are allowed in an R3 zoning district. In the case of wanting two of them in close proximity, you go the route of what's called a Planned Unit Development. **Female Neighbor:** Are the driveways would be off Arrowhead? **Eric Johnson (Community Development Director):** Yes. If Mr. Zierden came in for an application with one twin home, we could do it administratively. If he comes in with an application for two or more twin homes, assuming they're less than 200 feet apart, he has to go the route of the Planned Unit Development, and that would trigger this whole process again. [50:16] **Jared Anderson (Neighbor - remote):** Jared Anderson, 4383 Grouse Ridge. I understand the decision here tonight is how we're going to divide all this up and the issue with Lot 1 and you can't be landlocked. Are we sure you cannot provide access to Arrowhead? I want to make sure we're not being remiss here of just not providing access to Arrowhead. [51:06] **Joe Peterson (Chair):** Sir, I haven't seen anything for any new development this evening. We're looking at making seven lots, two that have existing homes on them. **Jared Anderson (Neighbor):** I understand, but once you make the decision to divide it and you have the clear access, it makes it a lot easier when the decision is going to be made on the home or the development. I just want to make sure that this body has looked at providing access to Arrowhead. **Joe Peterson (Chair):** Again, I understand your concern, but there is no plan for anything other than dividing these lots this evening. **Eric Johnson (Community Development Director):** Right now, the plat/PUD in front of us would have legal access onto Grouse Ridge. We would be essentially speculating wildly of something that may never happen. [53:15] **Jared Anderson (Neighbor):** How many homes are past Lot 1's entrance onto Grouse Ridge Drive today? **Joe Peterson (Chair):** It splits, right? It's a Y back there. 18 or 19 homes now past that point. **Jared Anderson (Neighbor):** But if you divided it in a way and provided access to Arrowhead, that would clear the way for whatever is going to be built on Lot 1 to access it from Arrowhead and not down Grouse Ridge. **Eric Johnson (Community Development Director):** [Indistinguishable discussion of wetlands]. There are a lot of wetlands between Arrowhead Road and even the portion of potential Lot 1. Lots 4 and 7 are virtually 80% wetlands. You cannot do that; the DNR, the Corps of Engineers, Hermantown—everybody—wetlands are sacred here and it just can't happen. [56:14] **Tanya Nichols (Neighbor):** My question is—and maybe I just missed this—Lots 4 and 7, would those be accessed from Arrowhead? **Joe Peterson (Chair):** 4 and 7 are from Arrowhead. Thank you for that. [57:10] **Mary Murphy (Neighbor):** I'm Mary Murphy. I live at 5180 West Arrowhead Road. I'm not crazy about flag Lot 4. Can you please explain why, Mary? Well, I'm not crazy about flag Lot 5 either because it's across the road, but 4 creates more of a problem because it's a smaller area than Lot 5. I think that's too much additional traffic coming off onto Arrowhead Road. Arrowhead Road is a thoroughfare already. I understand the rules and I understand that far before we were in R3... we shouldn't be so generous with our flag lots. We should maintain an acre of frontage and at least 100 feet in my opinion. [1:02:40] **Joe Peterson (Chair):** Mary, thank you very much for everything that you do and, of course, your words this evening. Does anybody else want to speak this evening? [1:03:00] **Amy Abernathy (Neighbor):** 4366 Grouse Ridge. This is future, but does the city have an amount of—in a residential cul-de-sac—how many people have to live there to have it have an "in and out," not just a one-way? **Eric Johnson (Community Development Director):** There is not a set hard number. What we do is we send plans out to multiple departments: the fire department, the police department, traffic engineers. Back in 2004, your subdivision was planned to have an "out" onto Levy Road. There still is right-of-way in place on Cedar Ridge for that access, but at that time, Council did not require that. We're going through another project right now where we are requiring that there's access to two different points. Whenever we have the ability, we try to have more than one way in and out. [1:05:40] **Joe Peterson (Chair):** Thank you again, ma'am. Not hearing any more, we will close the public hearing at 8:06 p.m. Commission members, any comments or questions still on this matter? **Bobby Simmons:** Mr. Chairman, I have a question on clarification for asking Mr. Johnson to clarify. If Mr. Zierden so chooses to put a twin home on one of these pieces of property, what would be the process? **Eric Johnson (Community Development Director):** The way we set this up initially with the PUD is he could have the ability to build a single twin home on those two lots right now, but if he so chooses to come in for more than that, then it would trigger a PUD process. [1:06:40] **Shannon Sweeney Jorgensen (Commission Member - remote):** I have one more comment. First of all, I want to thank Mary. Mary, I love you, you know that. I completely appreciate your comments. My hope is that the developer will consider the comments they have heard and really take them into account as the plans for that PUD happen. As the City of Hermantown, we need to be very cognizant of what our green space is. I hope the neighbors recognize that what we're doing tonight is not a final decision about layout and access; it's just making room for a developer to create another neighborhood. Thanks. [1:09:10] **Joe Peterson (Chair):** Thank you. Commission members, I look for a motion on a combined 5d and e this evening. **Bobby Simmons:** Simmons, and I'd like to make a motion to approve. **Joe Peterson (Chair):** We have a motion to approve. Can we get a second? **Beth Winslow:** Second. **Joe Peterson (Chair):** All in favor? **Commission:** Aye. **Joe Peterson (Chair):** Motion passes. Once again, thank you very much, everybody. This will be at the October 4th City Council meeting; you do have the opportunity to attend that as well. Moving on this evening, we have continuing business. [1:09:56] **Eric Johnson (Community Development Director):** Sorry, I was thinking back to a conversation with our City Attorney. This gets back to—we're starting to get inquiries of the utilization of essentially storage containers for the use of mini-storage facilities. As of right now in the ordinance, we're still picking through that. Does it mean that a building has to be a stick-built structure versus piecing together shipping containers? This just has some tax ramifications. This is just something that may have more discussion at the P&Z level in the next few months. [1:11:29] **Shannon Sweeney Jorgensen (Commission Member - remote):** I have a personal comment. I know we were all notified yesterday about the need to be in person in order to vote. I have to respectfully let the commission know that I will not be attending in person as long as we are seeing increases in ICU utilization based on the impact of the Delta variant and the impact of unvaccinated folks. I am disappointed in our City of Hermantown officials in not recognizing the importance of those recommendations. Thank you. [1:13:02] **John Geissler (City Councilor):** I have two things. The Ovum law firm will still be our City Attorney, but Gunner Johnson will be our official City Attorney as of January 1st of next year. Secondly, if you haven't been out to enjoy the new trail, I hope everybody has. There are more trails to come. There's going to be a section between Hermantown Road and Keene's Creek that will be paved here in the near future. Get out and enjoy those trails because it's a beautiful asset to our community. [1:15:03] **Joe Peterson (Chair):** Very good. Thank you very much. With that, we look for a motion to adjourn at 8:15. **Bobby Simmons:** Motion to adjourn. **Joe Peterson (Chair):** Can we get a second? **Beth Winslow:** Second. **Joe Peterson (Chair):** All in favor? **Commission:** Aye. **Joe Peterson (Chair):** We're going to close the meeting at 8:16 this evening. Thank you very much, everybody.