[0:00] Mayor Mary Fasbender: It's in America thanks to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all welcome and let the role reflect that all council members are present and a quorum has been established council members are there any corrections to the September 19th meeting okay uh for the public comments we have options for comments to be made to the city council for the emailed comments they have been forwarded to the city council and their receipt is acknowledged please recognize that items [0:45] Mayor Mary Fasbender: Not on the agenda will not be discussed this evening for live comments they may be either through Zoom or in person we ask that attendees either raise their hand in person or use the raised hand feature in zoom and they will be invited to speak one at a time I also want to remind everyone that the public comment period is not intended for an extended dialogue is there anyone who would like to address the council at this time anyone on Zoom okay council members are there any Council items to be considered okay Council I would accept a motion to pres accepted the consent agenda [1:34] Mayor Mary Fasbender: Discussion all those in favor of the Motion state by saying aye [Council: Aye] opposed to that motion stay by saying nay and that motion prevails tonight under Parks and Rec we have with us Paige Marshall Bigler to give us a review of The Summer Recreation program welcome page. [2:21] Paige Marshall Bigler: Well good evening council members and mayor I'm happy to be here this evening uh presenting in front of a full Council short and sweet this evening a brief overview of our season at Levy Park rotary Pavilion we just wrapped up a few short weeks ago uh this year new promotional platforms were undertaken including large kiosk displays for people visiting downtown enhanced use of social media strategies and channels and our own and in collaboration with the entertainment that was booked in partner organizations and targeted social media advertising campaigns to draw on people who may not have known or attended in years past these events help Drive tourism to the City by bringing people from surrounding areas to experience Hastings messaging for the activities often includes information encouraging people attending to dine in or take out at one of our local restaurants here in Hastings additionally this year music and markets promotion was launched to co-promote the makers Alleyway markets and music in the park series and plans are in the works to extend expand those [3:08] Paige Marshall Bigler: Offers next year similar to previous years we utilized Communications platforms online and with our local media partners calendars were also distributed to local businesses and organizations and featured in the Rivertown newsletter and to date the top two ways people hear about our events is through social media and our Rivertown newsletter the third being Word of Mouth over 8 300 people attended our programming at the Roto Pavilion this summer attendance varies depending on the weather the type of programming that we have down at Levy Park this year we had four cancellations due to weather forecasts but we continue to grow in attendance [3:57] Paige Marshall Bigler: We offered seven different types of program Series this summer new this year we started our rec art police program Series so we did our kickoff at Levy Park and then we went to five different locations we saw over 500 Youth and we were gearing it towards pre-teens this was a partnership with our Hastings Police Department our community engagement officer Whitney ronowski as well as some awesome sponsors such as SC toys Country Financial and other organizations that helped us make this possible for Grants and build Partnerships with organizations [4:44] Paige Marshall Bigler: However we did not receive funding from the Metro Regional Arts Council in either Grant Cycles this year or the Minnesota state Arts board but we have applied for 2023 and we hope to increase our funding sources for next season another way Levy Park is utilized is through our Park rentals this year we had 43 rentals at Levy Park very similar to last year and the increase from previous years and our Parks team works really hard daily with that maintenance and upkeep at Levy Park preparing for those rentals and I want to express my appreciation to our program Partners our sponsors our community who continue to show interest to have these offerings at Levy Park and I thank you mayor and city council for your continued support for these programs in Hastings [5:30] Paige Marshall Bigler: And at this time I can stand for any questions or comments. [5:30] Mayor Mary Fasbender: Thank you Paige and council member Lund. [5:30] Councilmember Lund: Thank you honor thanks Paige um you said that we didn't get any grants but we're applying again I'm just curious um if you could tell us what the criteria are for some of these and and then what like what programming is more you know favored and tends to get those grants? [6:15] Paige Marshall Bigler: Absolutely so Metro Regional Arts Council I applied in 2020 for a 2021 funding as well as 2021 for 2022. we received that funding in 2020 so that was a fifteen thousand dollar Grant to go towards our performance in the Park series so like theater and dance and art um and the grant Cycles is twice a year in August and then again in November uh so we so I applied to both of those we didn't receive funding the criteria was the same the Metro Regional Arts Council experienced a 200 percent increase in their applicants that they received so I imagine that's probably why one of the reasons we didn't receive the fifteen thousand dollars funding so I'll apply or I applied for the first cycle and we'll hear in November if we received 15 000 for our performance series for 2023. [7:01] Councilmember Lisa Leifeld: Thank you Paige even though I was giving you a hard time for your recap this time of the year being the end of summer every I love this time of year because these events are so amazing you know I come down there I love seeing people from all over the place people I don't know that's always we joke about it all of us around here that when we can go somewhere and it's like I didn't know hardly any of those people that's an awesome thing and just the variety that you give the community down there and I know you've taken not really requests but people will give you ideas and you're always looking for ideas and ways to include more of our community and every year you just do it and I just want to say thank you you are just awesome at this and I don't know what I do with my summer if you weren't down there having all of these awesome events so thank you. [7:47] Paige Marshall Bigler: Thank you yeah keep it up um and a little testament to our program series we did do surveys for the first five years to kind of shape our program series to see what the community wanted what visitors wanted and really with our additional outside funding we're really able to expand our offerings higher quality caliber of performances down at Levy Park. [8:33] Councilmember Fox: Thank you your honor uh Paige thank you for all your hard work I would like to Echo some of the comments of council member Liefeld and add that I had the pleasure of working at some of the makers Alleyway markets and watching the the hordes of people flock down to the Pavilion just to see the performances in the park is just an exceptional addition to the rotary Pavilion so thank you so much. [8:33] Paige Marshall Bigler: Absolutely thank you council member Fox. [9:19] Mayor Mary Fasbender: And I will too Express thank you because you know I go to them all the time and it's so fun to see the various you know age levels of people that are there and the families and they continue to come every week so the variety that you've been choosing and you work a year in advance on this you're probably start now for next year or you've started earlier so I appreciate that but two you know I just want to express a thank you to the sponsors that do help us with this program because we really couldn't you couldn't do your job without their assistance too so thank you so much. [9:19] Paige Marshall Bigler: Absolutely thank you mayor. [9:19] Councilmember Vaughn: Thank you Paige do we do we still do the brick program can people purchase a brick down there? [9:19] Paige Marshall Bigler: Yes our paver program as a part of... [9:19] Councilmember Vaughn: Does that go to a specific account does that go for operation I just my concern is she's showing how much it's getting used and she said mental health staff is trying to keep up with what it is so later we're gonna have to invest in this place to keep it alive and keep it even more thriving and more opportunities I just think that we should find a dedicated funding source if it's a paper program or if somebody wants to say I want this to go back to it how do we get that funding source and I think that would be important for page and staff to have that resource so they don't have to worry about getting into a budget cycle saying the thing's starting to dilapidate a little bit so just my two cents so I hope the program goes but maybe it's time to push that paper program again for people that are enjoying these series for example may say how do we continue this how do we keep this place where it is as an example thank you. [10:05] Mayor Mary Fasbender: Good point thank you councilmember Vaughn thank you thank you look forward to seeing you again Community Development tonight uh living a sweet living of Hastings at the southeast corner of 33rd and Vermillion Street and for this item we have economic development director John Hinzman welcome John. [10:50] John Hinzman: Thank you mayor City Council Members I'm going to pull the presentation here of what we're looking at tonight got a few actions related to the the same piece of property here which is located in the Southeast corner of 33rd Street per million the activity that is proposed is to construct sweet living which is a 32 unit assisted living facility providing memory care and assisted living units with this there's a couple of land use actions that there are to consider one would be a comprehensive plan Amendment a rezoning preliminary and final Platinum site plan and I'll go through those individually here in a moment we did have our advisory commissions take a look at this our Planning Commission review this a couple of weeks ago recommended approval of all actions on a three to two vote uh we did have one letter that was submitted as part of the application from a neighbor of Terry's Hardware with some questions about the change in land use from residential to commercial net property but ultimately the Planning Commission itself did recommend approval of it with the plan on the property we do have uh Park Dedication that is part of that our Park and Recreation Commission did review that application recommended that cash in lieu of land be paid for that so the actions We Have Tonight are as follows we have a comprehensive plan Amendment we're looking at amending the comprehensive plan changing that from commercial to medium residential so this shows the property here 33rd Street and Vermillion street so neighbors of the property of Terry's hardwood over to the east you got pro-par rental to the north of the property over here in this dashed area is the recently approved apartment buildings for Enclave 211 apartment units and then to the South author that you got do girls with residential across the street so during a comprehensive plan we looked at this property as being commercial the amendment tonight would be to change this to its term to medium residential designation which is consistent with the designation of the apartment building that Enclave had which is kitty corner to the southeast of the development when you take a look at the comprehensive plan we also have the Vermillion Street plan as well the vermillionship plan as you know put together guide plans and Visions for different areas along Vermilion Street and specifically within this area the red area represents what we had visioned in that document which was residential it showed here about a four-story residential building with commercial along Vermilion streets so that is part of our Vermillion Street plan and so we look at the comprehensive plan we are recommending approval of it doing more detail work on the Vermillion Street plan we we recommend that this change take place here along with the concrete supply as a rezoning we're rezoning the property from what's termed commercial C4 commercial which is Regional shopping center which is the same as the Coburn's area to a R4 high density resident which is the same as The Enclave area so that is the proposal that we have before us tonight on that similar rationale behind that our vermillions I don't care if you didn't understand it you all understood that I'm sure but uh it consistent with the comprehensive plan so that's what we have before us tonight is that recommendation for approval on this to change that land use the Plaid on this is very simple uh the the plant is is the reason the plet comes about is it was planted as an outlet which cannot be developed so we're basically taking the lot as is and changing it from an outlet to what's termed a lot of record preliminary play in the final plot are similar so really uh Noble Loop changes there easements are fine on it no public infrastructure within it does trigger a parking does trigger the uh the public dedication requirement for Parkland which is part of the recommendation for approval so getting more into the nuts and bolts of this this is the site plan itself so 33rd Street comes to the north singular entrance coming off of 33rd Street here which lines up with Pro Power parking area for 25 spaces which similar to other proposals that sweet living has done and then the building itself which is kind of a L-shaped Building located here on the property Highway 61 over to the West Terry's Hardware over to the east this is the driveway that goes that accesses the the new Enclave area with dugaros just to the south of that looking at Landscaping Landscaping is fine for the property meets our requirements for landscaping and separation view of the building looks something like this does meter architectural requirements has more of a you know residential look to it with a lot of different Gables and variations of materials between brick and Hardy plank siding on the building itself that's what it would look like on the outside of it a little closer view of what we have here so we are recommending approval of the site plan plat rezoning and comprehensive plan Amendment as proposed tonight we do have representatives of sweet living here if you have any questions for them and I can stand for any questions as well thank you. [16:17] Councilmember Lisa Leifeld: Thank you honor John if you could go back to the screen of the I think it was the Vermillion corridor... okay when I was looking at this and my um packet earlier so that image to the right so on our original Vermilion corridor plan this was already being looked at as residential correct okay you've answered pretty much every question I had because I understood that this was a commercial use going forward in our Vermillion corridor plan so I was concerned at us you know moving off of that idea so I have absolutely no questions thanks John. [17:03] Councilmember Vaughn: Thank you John I just I got a question on zoning when we say it's residential what determines that and this is a commercial business providing a service of Residential Care has any other community look at it different is it always been residential if somebody lives there is that what the development uh 101 is on the? [17:03] John Hinzman: Councilmember it's an interesting question I mean when you take a look at the clientele here I mean if they're more institutional type residents you've got memory care which are not leaving for the most part and dependent care which have very limited mobility within it could that be a commercial use perhaps in some communities that it may be considered a commercial use in our zoning code it's it's a permitted use under the the residential district itself you know when we take a look at the parameters of of this property and it's in its proximity to commercial areas if this was more of a town home type development having the change here I might be of a question because you have an existing commercial development being more of a I would trim this more of an Institutional type of use than a pure residential use I don't think you have as much of the the issues of of non-conformity that would come up because of the residents and being in the building as opposed to being a more resident of a residential nature. [18:35] Councilmember Vaughn: So to conclude it's it's our measure of residential versus commercial it's it's in our ordinance that's ordinance is that the right? [18:35] John Hinzman: It is yep under our zoning code this type of use would be allowed under the residential district does it really contemplate it under the commercial. [18:35] Councilmember Vaughn: Thank you. [18:35] Councilmember Lund: Thank your honor council member Bond brings up an interesting question and you do I think often see a property like this in more of a commercial setting it's not uncommon so it's kind of interesting that um so council member leifeld asked about the corridor plan I'm just curious um edu for educational purposes why do we not proactively look to modify and update our Zone zoning based on that plan and should we be looking to do that going forward? [19:22] John Hinzman: Yeah when we take a look at plans at the comprehensive plan or a plan like Vermillion Street those are plans in which we are looking at Future land uses and so typically we don't do that proactively we wait for our development to come forward we judge that development capacity as to whether this is something that would be consistent with the plan that we have in other other rules or ordinances that we have in place it provides us I think more more of a an ability to discern on development if we wait for the development to come as opposed to doing it before. [20:08] Councilmember Lund: Follow-up question thank you um so it's it is reasonable though that we are sort of advertising it by virtue of our corridor plan that this is uh where we are looking for a Suitor or we're we're willing to accept this Hooter for this property that would be this zone change versus um you should wait for somebody to come to us but and although that's true we're not you know necessarily we weren't knocking on a door per se but I would say that anything that's on this document is is a clear indication of what the intent of this Council would be for that property right? [20:53] John Hinzman: Well I would agree with that I mean when when we set out to do the Vermillion Street corridor plan the question we wanted to answer with that was if a developer was to come forward and ask what is the city looking for on this piece of property this is what we can show them so I think it clearly does show an intent and a good will towards doing doing something consistent with it absolutely okay thank you councilmember Lund. [21:39] Councilmember Folch: Thank your honor I the owner of Terry's hard work didn't you know bring forward a letter and I thought he had very valid points that were within his letter and council member Vaughn was you know trying to ask you know pertinent questions uh to address some of that but I was curious did you ever have a conversation with him yourself to talk through his concerns I'm just curious. [21:39] John Hinzman: Yeah I did speak with Chuck Terry on the phone a couple of times uh around the the time the letter was submitted on it and I understand when you look at the property here and it's on Vermillion street it's on 33rd Street it's at a cross section in a commercial District that there may be some questions as to why that this this property should be designated to something else um so I unders understand that concern of it um looking at the type of use here and the potential for it to be detrimental to his commercial use I find that quite limited because the use itself is not what the world will be strictly residential like a town home development in which you would have neighbors and backyards and more people with with highly sensitive concerns about commercial activity and loading and other things which come with commercial districts it's kind of interesting in these type of developments here those are actually a positive to the the citizens that are living in here the activity they like to see the activity within there as opposed to others that might find it disturbing so I think from a detrimental standpoint I understand his argument I don't know if if I'm quite there with it myself I can see this commercial this property or having the capacity for commercial or this type of use is residential and with this proposal coming forward and taking a look at our Vermillion Street plan we had contemplated residential for the property. [23:11] Councilmember Folch: Right well thank you for having those conversations with him I wish there was something more we can do you know the fact of the matter is is that this particular plot of land has been available for sale for such a long period of time and it's exciting that that a really valid proposal is being brought forward something that we really do need within our community is this kind of development for our seniors and so I think that it makes a lot of sense I would just ask John as we're moving forward with the development of the town homes that are going to be in the the center part of it there you know on the other side of Terry's in behind just um for us to be you know really conscious and thoughtful about how that approach looks from the frontage road because I can see concern about not wanting it to for Cherries to look strange you know as you know that it doesn't blend into the rest of the neighborhood and you know and I'm really concerned with uh you know the Fleet Farm coming into town and so uh I think that it's a very uh it's sensitive you know for us uh to be conscious about uh Terry's and uh and and I'd love to see them to stay I think they have the best service in our entire community that they provide and uh so just to recognize that the contributions that they do bring to our community and that we do value them and so uh thank you for having those conversations. [24:42] John Hinzman: Thank you councilmember. [24:42] Councilmember Brocks: Thank you John my question revolves a little bit more around the idea of mixed use and I don't want to use that term incorrectly because I realize there's specific zoning that relates to mixed-use property and that's not what we're talking about here but one of the interesting things that I was thinking about as I was reading the letter from Chuck and Pete Terry was their proposal that commercial property thrives when other commercial property is next door to it as a person who doesn't have an urban planning degree logically to me having residential and Commercial mixed together seems like it would be a better situation for both the residents and the businesses can you just speak to maybe the evolution of strategy on land planning over time because it seems like to me in the past it was about segregating single-family homes you know public land and they were very segregated things whereas what I saw in the Vermillion Street corridor plan was a mixed-use plan where there was retail and residential on the Main Street that's much a much different concept so to me that's an evolution in like our planning for the city of Hastings is that we're going that direction so maybe you know can you just kind of maybe I'm wrong about that but my sense was the more mixture of zoning together is something that has maybe historically not been a planning approach in the past but as we move into the future as properties and businesses are next to each other and Residences is that something that we see more of into the future or is that something that you think is just a trend I mean does that question makes sense to you? [27:02] John Hinzman: Sure it comes down to a couple of different things I mean zoning originated to keep uses that were not compatible with one another away it kind of went too far frankly in in some aspects of it where you know obviously you don't want to live next to a giant belching polluting Factory but to live next to a corner store maybe that's not too bad of a thing being residential and Commercial next door so getting away from that a little bit but there's still certain uses that just don't fit well next to others from a residential or a commercial industrial standpoint you know from a if I'm looking at it purely from a commercial standpoint as a business owner you're going to want things to drive traffic the things that drive traffic may be other business trips that are surrounding it that if I go to coburns I may want to stop at the hardware store or it might be a situation in which I have more of a of a density of residential if I've got 211 apartment units or I've got another residential subdivision down the road they're going to need things from a hardware store if I'm visible great people people will know that I'm there so kind of a a couple of different things that come into play there so you know as long as the activities aren't going to be detrimental to one another like I think if we had a purely if we had a town home residential area there in which we had backyards and you've got truck traffic with the commercial might not work so well but with this type of facility I the the ability or the the opportunity for people to have these these type of detrimental occurrences is much much less. [28:33] Councilmember Brocks: A follow-up sure so as a corollary to that do you see the anything any Merit to the argument that it would be detrimental to property values to have residences next to commercial property and one being better the or one being better than the other for the business value? [28:33] John Hinzman: It's difficult to say it really depends on really what would be developed on that property uh you know if it depends it would depend on what type of commercial would be developed there I mean it it if a different type of commercial was to develop perhaps it would have a higher value on it I don't know what that would do to Terry's Hardware as far as an effect on their property itself I I think more from the standpoint property values are affected by by negative attributes of surrounding areas than the opposite in which you've got a higher valid area that would really trans transform that value to the neighboring property thank you that makes sense to me. [29:19] Councilmember Vaughn: Thank you councilmember Brooks I'm not going to repeat today but culture Brocks that's what I've always when we met with the planet community council with the developer on this you can say property value I've seen that before but we we can't get anybody to explain us how we come up with that number of what my property values worth with everything around it if we had that that equation that is told to us that it's an equation then I could I could live on my property value is going to drop because of that that developer came to us and said this place has been for sale in 20 years and one person has shown interest in it that's that's not we we needed to do something down there and that's why we met on this but traffic was and John talked about that traffic was important to me making sure it was the right traffic but the thing that kind of as we've been working on this life cycle housing as our population ages the thing that really made me kind of convinced that this is is we need to provide a place for the people that need this service and I like the reason I bring up the commercial side I think that's a commercial business myself I I don't think it should be in a Industrial Area I think it's great to be in a mixed-use area because I think that's the right thing we should do for residents that are going to choose hopefully to stay in Hastings or even move to Hastings to use this service so I'm in favor of it but it's us as residents we need to keep supporting all the mixed-use businesses that are around it Terry's Hardware has been a staple around here and we need to make sure that we continue to use that and highlight it that people get in there and use it so I think it's going to help that area personally I don't think it's going to bring it down thank you. [30:50] Mayor Mary Fasbender: Thank you councilmember Vaughn any other discussion Council okay we have several related action items here uh let's see if we can do them as a single motion I would accept emotion approving a a resolution of the city council the city of Hastings amending the city of Hastings 2040 comprehensive Plan B an ordinance of the city of Hastings Minnesota amending section 155.01 zoning code of the city code having to do with official zoning map c a resolution of the city council the city of Hastings granting preliminary and final plat approval of sweet living of Hastings Edition and d a resolution of the city council the city of Hastings granting site plan approval of sweet living of Hastings. [31:37] Councilmember Fox: So moved. [31:37] Councilmember Lisa Leifeld: Second. [31:37] Mayor Mary Fasbender: Additional discussion Council all those in motion of or in favor of the Motion state by saying aye [Council: Aye] opposed to that motion stay by saying nay and that motion prevails great thank you John thank you. [32:24] Mayor Mary Fasbender: Thank you so tonight under Administration we have the second reading to adopt the ordinance changing the mayor and city council wages and for this item we have our city administrator Dan Wietecha. [32:24] Dan Wietecha: Thank you mayor um this goes back to uh budget discussions a year ago and uh back in December the council talked about including Council wages which had not been changed I think in seven or eight years uh as part of the compensation study that report came back this summer indicated about an 800 increase in mayor and 500 increase in city council member wages to be in line with comparable to uh neighboring cities of similar size at our council meeting two weeks ago Council had a lot of discussion on much of the um proposed Ordinance one of the key pieces that came out of that Council discussion two weeks ago the first reading was an an effective date of two years from now so January 2025 and I know that at least a couple of council members in the intervening weeks have inquired about changing that date shortening it up that's certainly before you this evening but the ordinance has written second reading currently says January 2025. any questions I can certainly take those thank you. [34:12] Mayor Mary Fasbender: Thank you Dan questions Council no questions okay councilmember Folch you're looking good. [34:12] Councilmember Folch: Your honor I'm sorry the packet when I downloaded it it says the second reading here you know but it was just the right the cover letter that would normally go with it wasn't attached and such and so I just was looking for clarification that um the on next steps with this. [34:58] Dan Wietecha: At this point if council is ready for second reading and Adoption of the ordinance as written based on the conversations at the last council meeting you could act on it this evening alternatively if there were some minor amendments to it you could certainly make those this evening and also adopt it if Council alternatively were interested in more significant changes to it that might mean sort of a back to the drawing board let's have first reading and second reading but uh you have an ordinance before you consistent with the conversation on September 19th and if Council had thoughts on minor amendments such as changing an effective date you could do that this evening thank you Dan. [35:44] Councilmember Folch: Thank you for that thank you for the clarification on on that and so you know I continue to think that it should be up to the individual council members as to whether or not they want to take a device that's issued by the city or if they would rather take the 400 stipend you know the more I got to thinking about it it's like a laptop that has word on it is much more than four hundred dollars and it so and then not to mention uh then the IT department having to take care of it security updates software updates that would be needed to be done to it and such and so I think that it would be much more costly to have to have the city be issuing you know devices to every individual council member and so I I think that it should be an up to an individual as to whether or not they want to to have a to have a city issued device the reason that we didn't originally make that decision Vision just to remind folks and when we did have a lot of conversation about this when we first made this move and it was because that city issued devices they are subject to data practices requests any information that is uh or work that is done on that device is property of the city and and in strict you know conformance with that it would only be you know you'd essentially only be able to use it for reading email or writing you know correspondences and word and if you had to you know send a a letter or something to that you know effect on it and so it just seems like it's Overkill to be issuing a full device to council members um and and in that capacity and so I think that it makes a lot of sense to have just gone with the the 400 or stipend or if an individual wanted to take a device from the city because they don't feel that they're able to manage uh having you know a device by themselves and so I think that this should be amended it went so quickly I think that we had a lot of conversation last time and we and and then all of a sudden this side this came forward as it did not to mention pushing off the you know the change in the salary until 2025. that would make it nine years before there was an adjustment in the in the in the council wages and it's only a 500 increase which isn't much but that just seems excessive I mean what else goes nine years without an adjustment does anything stay the same price you know or people have wages that are that stay the same for nine years and so it just um I don't know I think that sometimes leadership takes courage to you know take to make tougher decisions and and I'm not afraid of of taking a vote on something that I think is is fair and and particularly after we had the conversation about how you know sometimes people do need you know the additional funds to make it so that they can actually uh participate in uh being on the city council and so I think that there is a lot of validity to amending you know as this is presented um particularly for under paragraph five that the salaries is in effect on the state in this ordinance where adopted shall remain in place until after the regular council meeting held on January 6 2025 I think that we should uh to amend that to be 2023 and uh and allow for that salary adjustment you know to happen again that's seven years that the salaries had been left as they were and so I think any any reasonable individual would look at that and and say to themselves yet after seven years that makes sense to make an adjustment to a stipend that anybody would make whether or not they're you know an elected official and so so I'm gonna make it I'm gonna make a motion to amend the the ordinance as it is presented to be just to be updated changing the date from January 6 2025 to January 6th of 2023. [40:23] Mayor Mary Fasbender: Okay thank you councilmember Folch Councilmember Liefeld. [40:23] Councilmember Lisa Leifeld: I would like to confirm the date of that the January's date is that accurate? [40:23] Councilmember Folch: If this was in the packet it's on like page 85. it won't be the same 23 it wasn't 25. [40:23] Councilmember Lisa Leifeld: I'm sorry the date wouldn't be the same in 23 as it was in 25. [40:23] Councilmember Folch: Oh I see what you're saying got it whatever that would it be a Monday or something like that or it would be actually the third of January 2023 is the first council meeting of the new year because the holiday is actually on Monday it's the second but actually we have Council on Tuesday so then I I would make... [41:08] Mayor Mary Fasbender: Mary you said January 3rd right? [41:08] Councilmember Folch: Right okay so I would make an amendment then to clarify that um that the date be changed to January 3rd of 2023. [41:30] Councilmember Lisa Leifeld: Second. [41:30] Mayor Mary Fasbender: Second by councilmember Liefeld additional discussion Council? [41:30] Councilmember Lund: Thank you thank you I I know I probably made this much too long of a conversation last time um but um I'll just take the opportunity to say that I I uh I don't think it's a leadership taking an act of Courage per se but it's it's doing what's appropriate and I think it's more appropriate to make a change like this when it's not directly affecting you for sure um and additionally I I do believe it's more appropriate for a council to be leveraging um City devices rather than receiving stipends to purchase their own if the the reason for that is so that you can't you know go on Facebook and things like I mean that's not what the thing is for it's to send emails and it's to use word and write letters to constituents and receive things and whatnot that are pertinent to this job it's a tool of the job so um I'll I'll leave it at that that's my my two cents clarification. [43:03] Mayor Mary Fasbender: Since both council members have brought this up this ordinance does not comment or have any clarification on the devices is that correct? [43:03] Dan Wietecha: Correct correct it's not in there. [43:03] Mayor Mary Fasbender: Okay and then just in a council member motion does no no it doesn't no it doesn't okay no so I just want to clarify because what council member Lund is saying is and we've talked about these dates a lot and the reality is in January of 2025 there could reasonably still be four of us here including the mayor right we don't know that there's because that's the four Awards and the mayor so we don't have any any guarantee the only two we know won't be here unless they decide to come back in 2025 as council member Vaughn and council member Brock so um thank you thank you Council there is a motion on the floor council member Vaughn. [43:50] Councilmember Vaughn: I was ready to accept it as the way it was written and again I've said this before we don't do it for the money in my opinion I think it's used for expenses together but what I liked about it is at first the reason I question it is because we did a snapshot we went and did a study we were right there in the ballpark we actually raised it up a little bit that's why I'm like I can support this in 2025 we're probably going to be right in there probably maybe on a little low end but I hope we're doing another study by this time to make sure our staff is getting taken care of I can't support moving the date just I support what was in front of us I'm sorry Comfort folks I can't support the amendment to it thank you. [43:50] Councilmember Folch: No I I'm sorry your honor I I just you know continue to think that seven years and not making any adjustment you know and then if you go into 2025 nine years without making an adjustment I mean really that just doesn't seem reasonable at all and it and it's not about um you know whether or not people deserve it or anything of the matter I mean it's just practicality and you know and I think it's not practical either that the city is going to make the investment in the next two years to have a full-fledged salary survey done again you know to make sure that compensation levels are are are adequate and so I mean it could very well be another decade before that's done and so I just think that it makes sense that the the council the the wages don't go another decade I mean I it does I don't get it I just don't get it at all um as to you know why it is that we would hold ourselves to a different standard than any other any other position any place within this entire city where it is that you would go nearly a decade without having a small increase made you know to a compensation package and so um I think it's so anyhow I'll be that's enough I'll stop I'll stop with my thank you. [46:10] Councilmember Lisa Leifeld: Thank you I just want to clarify too for those who didn't listen to our last meeting where we had a lot of conversation about this and council member Vaughn brought up a really good point that none of us ran for the money um but that being said is it could I mean it's 500 500 could mean a lot to someone and I think it may make it easier for some to want to run I there is a lot of cost involved um there's daycare for meetings for a lot of people my kids are now older I don't have to deal with that but there's a lot of cost to doing this job taking time off of work to go to events and whatever it may be so um I I do think that we do need to think about the fact that even though you don't do it for the money I think you might open up the door to other people that are looking at it going oh God no I'm not doing this I know how many phone calls they take I know how many emails they take I know how many meetings there are this it might broaden that for us so I support council member Folch's idea to you know hopefully we can run the pool we want people to participate and this might just help that so thank you honor. [46:56] Councilmember Vaughn: Thank you I just noticed that I've seen wage versus stipend I think the Memo's written wrong or the headline because we don't receive a wage we receive a stipend and I think it's important that we're not raising wages here we're raising the stipend thank you. [47:41] Councilmember Brocks: I do want to say something about the word reasonable person and just how that gets thrown around the standard of a reasonable person in law is interesting because basically what it means is a reasonable person is a person in the same situation who would approach the situation with an appropriate amount of caution and also common sense so I think what's fair here is a matter of opinion I don't think that if I agree with the date in 2023 or I agree with the date in 2025 that doesn't make me any more or less reasonable I think we're all trying to be reasonable and fair so I just want to say I think we all have the same value in being reasonable and fair but in the reasonable person standard in law reasonable people can disagree so I think it's okay that we disagree about the implementation date we're still all trying to be reasonable and fair and I think for me that's the bottom line thank you. [48:28] Mayor Mary Fasbender: Thank you councilmember Brocks okay if no other discussion all those in favor of the motion on the table state by saying aye [Council: Aye] opposed to that Motion state by saying nay. Clerk Murtaugh could you call the roll? [48:28] Assistant City Administrator Kelly Murtaugh: Councilmember Vaughn? [48:28] Councilmember Vaughn: Nay. [48:28] Kelly Murtaugh: Councilmember Folch? [48:28] Councilmember Folch: Yes. [48:28] Kelly Murtaugh: Councilmember Fox? [48:28] Councilmember Fox: Yes. [48:28] Kelly Murtaugh: Councilmember Liefeld? [48:28] Councilmember Lisa Leifeld: Yes. [48:28] Kelly Murtaugh: Councilmember Lund? [48:28] Councilmember Lund: Nay. [48:28] Kelly Murtaugh: Councilmember Brocks? [48:28] Councilmember Brocks: Nay. [49:15] Kelly Murtaugh: Mayor Fassbender? [49:15] Mayor Mary Fasbender: Yes. [49:28] Mayor Mary Fasbender: And that motion prevails. Next we have 2023 budget pre... oh sorry yeah that was the ordinance yeah. [49:54] Dan Wietecha: That's not it your honor I I'm misunderstood I guess the motion I was under the impression that council member Folch was amending the ordinance and recommending it for final reading but in the attorney right but she was amending what was written in front of you so I mean I I guess you could just for clarification purposes take another vote I presume it would be the same so if counselors comfortable that you just passed this ordinance you don't need to revote okay and we're comfortable okay thank you thank you. [50:42] Mayor Mary Fasbender: All right now we have the 2023 budget pre-authorization purchases Dan. [51:28] Dan Wietecha: Thank you um these are real um a year ago when we had the preliminary budget for for this year 2022 um we recognized that there were a variety of supply chain uh primarily deadlines but just a matter of in order to get some equipment and vehicles in particular we would need to order them early and there are significant items that we ordered a year ago that we're still waiting on and some of it may be certainly certain things that we receive but some of it even is questionable if we'll get it yet in 22. um uh the economy is still difficult and still has long lead times and also very short windows to order some items and we've been told that even if you get your name in that small three-day window and onto the list is not a guarantee of getting that truck or whatever that that item is uh so recognizing that uh we the staff looked at Capital items that were in the preliminary budget that was uh approved in early September recognizes preliminary but came up with a list of here are items that we would like to try to purchase or try to order at least get get on the list depending on what each individual item is um uh because they're needed for tools to do the job and I hope that ordering them now they may be available during 23. um the the items specifically are in the the memo and I can discuss anyone that you might have questions to I would also point out that um a do not believe that any of the items would require money down in 2022 we actually wouldn't make payment until next year the other item is be recognizing that the the total cost of these a little over nine hundred thousand dollars uh is uh potentially money that we have cash on hand uh it's not relying on the tax levy that you're voting in December it's not relying on receiving local government Aid next July so if there were concerns about procedurally we're doing this too early I get it it's because of some real practical difficulties but if push came to shove there is cash that that could accomplish them and I think that's worth noting with that I I can discuss any or all of the items the budget process itself but that that's the recommendation to authorized staff to begin the process at ordering these items thank you. [54:16] Mayor Mary Fasbender: Thank you Dan any discussion Council councilmember Lund. [54:16] Councilmember Lund: So thank you so Dan none of the none of this is realized find the none of the expense is realized until delivery is received is that correct is that what you're saying? [55:09] Dan Wietecha: It's not none of it is expected to be realized I realize I'm equivocating a little bit there do not expect any of it to need anything but it's possible that as we try to find some opportunity to purchase a truck that's just not available that vendor might say money down but but everything we've seen previously are conversations we've had have not required any sort of money down it'd be payment upon actual delivery. [55:09] Mayor Mary Fasbender: Any other questions counsel okay if not I would accept a motion to approve staff to begin the purchase processes for several 2023 budget items as presented in the member. [55:39] Councilmember Folch: So moved. [55:39] Councilmember Fox: Second. [55:39] Mayor Mary Fasbender: Additional or new discussion Council okay all those emotion of the in favor of the Motion state by saying aye [Council: Aye] I oppose that Motion state by saying nay and that motion prevails thank you Dan counsel any announcements or updates okay I have a couple October is National Community planning month extra appreciation to community development director John Hinzman and his team thank you John uh pause in the park is Thursday October 6th that Rivertown dog park Thursday October 6 to Sunday October 9th a storybook will be along the trail of Mississippi I'm sorry Vermillion Falls Park a partnership with Pleasant Hill Library the friends of Pleasant Hill Library is hosting a used book sale Thursday October 6th to Sunday October 9th in recognition of National Fire Prevention Week the fire and EMA EMS Department open house is Tuesday October 11th meet the department learn about fire safety and see the new fire engine all Angels our ages are welcome City Hall will be closed from 10 30 to 1 30 tomorrow October 4th meetings coming Monday October 10th 7 PM Planning Commission Tuesday October 11th 7 PM Parks and Recreation Commission Wednesday October 12 6 15 PM Arts task force Thursday October 13th 6 30 P.M hedra Monday October 17th 7 PM city council regular meeting I would accept a motion for adjournment. [57:13] Councilmember Lisa Leifeld: So moved. [57:13] Councilmember Vaughn: Second. [57:13] Mayor Mary Fasbender: No discussion all those in favor of the Motion state by saying aye [Council: Aye] opposed to that Motion state by saying they okay we are adjourned.