I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible thank you very much roll call please councilmember Cole here council member schweer here councilmember Wong here council member nordby here mayor Maggie trying to get a move to adopt the agenda please so I moved council member Cole second second Council membership in favor say aye aye together thank you mayor extension item May July 18 2023 Workshop events let him be July 18 2023 regular meeting minutes item C July 18 2023 HRA meeting minutes item D July 18 2023 closed session minutes item e General claims of three million 957 732.85 cents by the Memphis HRA claims of 29 231.78 cents item G is ordinance amending the title 7 chapter 72 State Statute 72-07 or 0.07 parking prohibited H is ordinance amending city code to body art establishments item is special event permit Window World veteran fundraiser August 18 2023 item J special event permit American Legion corn and brought feed August 26 2023 item K is special event permit VFW pow and Mia remembrance walk on September 21st 2023 item L is Silver Lake muralist agreement item M resolution accepting donations for July of 2023 item n is building permit report for July of 2023. item is Declaration of equipment Surplus item p is management service agreement for municipal recreation facility with the city of North St Paul and Triple Crown batting cages Inc and item Q is Fire Relief buoya use of payment system agreement anybody if anything they pulled yep I would like to pull item o and I would like to pull item d foreign three minutes please per person David Nelson all right missing something okay time Keepers on all right thank you you got it okay David Nelson at 2574 East 4th Avenue North St Paul I'm sorry hang on David I guess I forgot to after we pulled it yeah we still need to approve approved oh that's where Amanda approve the container consent with Council membership cool second council member swear all those in favor aye aye reminder right David hey David David Nelson 2574 East 4th Avenue um it's a survey Park survey that was great but not many people knew about it I printed off 85 I handed out I got back 79. and that I one Saturday I sat down at Southwood and as the people will come in with your dogs people come in to look at the wildlife and that I said would you mind filling it out I had probably seven people on the picnic table at one time it was filling these out I went back Sunday Outhouse was gone it went up in smoke and that so and then I finished up on Sunday there was 40 people totally just those two days but the other days I went around to the houses where I saw the people out in their yards the hand that I stopped and asked him do you know about the survey he says no on the utility bill there's a there's a clear spot right there I paid my bill I just looked at it sure you had to go across and look at the numbers just put a red box in there Park survey let's pick it up at City Hall you know it that way you're not paying for extra paper or anything in there it's just a red box with that in there okay the other thing is Southwood I handed everybody copies the very first page most of the people were complaining about the trails no wood chips and that and we had when I was on the park Commission Keith was working here at the time zostowski Annette and there was one lady wanted second grind chips the city very nice send her a letter if you would mindly donating fifteen hundred dollars this is what it costs for second grind ships we didn't hear from her second grind chips will not last they go on the ground they Decay they rot first grind ships I got those for nothing to Victoria Reinhardt had two semis and uh Brian and Ron and all those guys they all help we use spread them with a spreader it's five and a half feet and then the city would Mull to read on on each side excuse me and that but I mean it's uh I don't think it's it's a gem in the city let's not lose it we're the only city with a small Nature Preserve because all of the surveys that they filled up at the park 11 people were from Oakdale and the people from Oakdale that says why do you come here he says you got one over there he says you've got wood chips people that's got hip problems knee problems there you go and that but no uh and the wood chips Victoria Reinhardt gone for nothing and also as the people I quit volunteering how about the goats for clearing the block thorn out Maplewood got the goats plus they got the grant so it didn't cost Maplewood anything because I went through two of their meetings and I asked them all about it I brought it down here I give it to the people on that side the information that's the last I heard of it thanks John Schmall foreign 2750 Chisholm Avenue just a comment on the last meeting where you had father and daughter appear here and talking about the problem with water and coming into their with a not a big rain and having a problem also was here with Sean rivet who the city decided to turn down the purchases of his house money was available from the DNR but anyway I just listening to their stories bring back memories to me that uh you can be put through holy hell in a rain when you've got a problem like that I had the problem 30 years I had the problem up on Chisholm if you go on where my house is located you would say what kind of a water problem do you did you have did you have and I really feel sorry for these people really you gotta walk a mile in their moccasins and know what a rainstorm means to them they don't sleep I didn't sleep during this period every time it rained I never knew when it was coming over the top and between my house and the house to the west and having it totally washed down to the foundation anyway uh I would hope that you give them some consideration because they're in a living hell plus the fact both of those homes were floor closures so there was no declaration as to a water problem ever in that area for those houses and I thought for myself with the water problem that I had I was paying on a house I couldn't sell because I'd have to declare that water would come over the top and possibly wash out my basement and the house would fall in hot what's a house like that worth but anyway one day Scott Dudek appears and he says John we're going to put in a right size size sewer pipe and they did and now I can sleep at night so I don't know why I got taken care of but I'm really appreciative of the fact that I was taken care of and when it rains I sleep like a baby because I have no worry and I can when my house is sold they don't have to say there's a water problem with this house because there there isn't and that should kind of treatment should be given to all people who have water problems in this city but evidently not think about it John Dennis what OMG that means we're going to discuss it after it's not the consent is everything that passes so it was pulled um and it's worth only 2050 North Margaret Street North St Paul I got a few things I wanted to cover one is you guys probably saw my email last week asking why I wasn't on the agenda did you see that nobody answered me I don't know why but it seemed a lot of people that emailed in weren't getting answers either other than I think councilwoman's word you did a few people but in the last three weeks people were getting ones that saying this has been resolved I don't know where they came from when I asked about it if told I was wrong but then found out that supposedly a gal in the office put this out and I don't know that she would have been responsible for make you know doing that so I'm not sure where that happened um a couple of things you know I came up here last time and I think people had an impression I'm making a lot of money out these batting cages that I'm some kind of this is what I almost feel like I'm a criminal I'm a scammer you know seriously I mean that's how I kind of felt I can tell you in 30 years and asked Something About Records I've never filed a W-2 because I think prerequisite is you got to make a profit or get paid for it I don't during a pandemic I wrote a check for three thousand dollars to keep the place open for two months that I haven't paid back it isn't what I do the money I do make and I've told you this before and there's people out there that know what I do with that money that I give to Charities at the end of the year what's left goes in the gift certificates they go out to people you know over the years I've given so many things I brought this up as these are letters just from the last few years and there's hundreds of these that's the sound system at the baseball field I paid for Police Department is in there where I gave them a 500 check for their motorcycle years back and it goes on and on but those are things I like to do the toughest one I ever had that I don't even like to talk about is a woman sent me a letter thanking me for making her son's day she asked for a donation what I did is offered to give her the whole building for a day they brought in all their friends and relatives all the money went to help this young boy who had cancer she wrote this letter saying she'd never seen her son that happy with all the trial and tribulations they've been through well it was sad she wrote it after he passed those are the things that you find out you know what you're all about so um you know I started this thing and back in 1993 and you should have got emails from a few different people of course my Kings won them Leon Lilly did you guys see that one Betty McCollum they were part of the original thing they were the ones that helped push this thing through they wanted it done and if you read the letter they can kind of tell you who I am a little bit and I I hope that helped and all I'm asking is you know we're talking about a contract here and I would ask that can we just leave this thing alone for five to seven years I'll be done and then you got 50 years of that building probably to do whatever you want you want to rent it you know and I think councilwoman Wong you mentioned about me getting somebody in there maybe take over I'd work on that there can be money made if I don't do the things I do you know so somebody could you know and I would work on that if that's what you would want but after that I'm 72. I mean I'll make it to that long who knows I feel good but we hope that I do I ask you to consider that and keep that uh keep that in mind and you know just thank you for your time in that it's been a trying time for me and my family and uh pretty pretty gut-wrenching to have to go through this you know no one what I've done I know my legacy I know what I've done in this city a lot of people do a lot of people didn't because I never talked about it so I feel proud of what I've done and I'll leave it at that and thanks for your time okay thank you appreciate it yeah I'm Carrie Bliss I live at 2887 Lake Boulevard and I want to say thank you to council member schweer council member Wong councilman bernardby and the mayor I thank you guys it's a hard job okay you get a little stipend does that really make up for it no you put in a lot of hours a lot a lot on behalf of all the residents of North Saint Paul hard decisions what's best for the city what's best for the residents how do you make those decisions I don't envy that and I really from the bottom of my heart I thank you for doing this job on behalf of all of us there I'm done I give the rest of my minutes to those other people [Laughter] never say that again Carrie that was a good one touche touche so no public hearings let's mix up the city business action items and recommendations first up is the ordinance number 821 amending title 13 chapter 130 of the North St Paul city code considering public smoking of hemp and cannabis products what this does is it prohibits smoking in public for the smoke cannabis flower cannabis products hemplant and hemped Rib derived consumer products in the public places that's the gist of it and bypassing this it gives the police the ability to enforce that ordinance by just a petty misdemeanor if people do that in public um if you have any further questions I was going to turn this over to City attorney Jack and uh he can answer lots of questions on this if you have them Brian well you're still talking about this um has this been endorsed by Phil is he happy with house or and do you know yes okay um and so when this there were two options this first came out and a lot of cities the most strict one was not only the smoking and The Vaping of this but also the consumables the issue that police were finding is you know people could call in that kids are in the park and they're eating some candy and they're saying that was Edibles and it wasn't the case so it caused more problems than it was solving and the biggest issue seems to be the smoke coming off of the product that is the issue so this one doesn't deal with the Edibles it just deals with the moping vaping and smoking is this consistent with the um smoking with tobacco use in the same spaces is it consistent with how we have it I believe this is slightly more strict than the tobacco ordinances I believe tobacco is currently prohibited in Parks I believe I'm just seeing some nods yes whereas this would ban smoking a cannabis in sort of all public spaces um so it's a little more broad than the tobacco ordinances any more questions for them okay then we're looking for a motion I prior to being a city council member and even being a city council member um I've had nothing but pride in our police department and my next concern is not based on our Police Department um from everyone I know that serves on our Force there that I've had dealings with it they're very wonderful the only thing I would like to talk about possibly um does this potentially cause public concern about people getting harassed by our police for walking down smoking a cigarette on the streets which is legal um I I know there's a lot of talk in the state about pretextual stops and stuff like that um I I trust our police force and I have pride in them um I just how much leeway do we give them and how how much do we need to do to make sure that they are given the best possible chance for success does that make any sense yeah enforcement piece your concern yeah I guess you know that's partly why I asked is there consistency with tobacco smoking and cannabis or and hemp smoking obviously they have different smells however that does not negate the fact that both of them are harmful and pollutants and Etc um I think in terms of enforcement [Music] my understanding is the legislator allocated millions of dollars to kind of do that research um and and the only reason I know a lot about this is because it's part of my day job in public health and so um yeah I do have kind of those concerns how do we balance education because my understanding when it first came out there was a lot of concern a lot of um Ang or just kind of a lot of anxiety around it um however there's still a long leeway before you know we get to that to that point and so um yeah I think the way that this is laid out for me it just makes more sense if it is aligned with smoking which is you know I think it'll help with consistency looking for a motion on the passing of the ordinance so moved second all in favor say aye aye thank you next up is the item B consideration of options for 2579 7th Avenue improvements and Randy here to discuss these options with you this is the property between Sidewinders and uh tattoo shop downtown [Music] okay you'll recall our discussion on this I would hope from our last city council meeting and at that time I described that the Eda has been working on this project since early 2022. um they asked WSB to prepare concept drawing to establish a green space on the vacant lot at 2579 7th Avenue East and their intent at that time was to create a temporary Green Space or a public gathering area that would soften this future Redevelopment area in the downtown and the Eda has cited that The Old City Hall site on the corner of Margaret Street and 7th Avenue was a successful um situation where we had green greenscaping installed as an interim solution to a somewhat bladed area in the downtown prior to that Sentinel Redevelopment occurring excuse me so their preferred concept plan is shown on the screen and as you can see it has a landscape area a short walking path bench pads a concrete area for public art and the north half is parking oh I'm sorry [Laughter] what am I doing wrong here thank you is it me we break so much I know what happened I had it plugged into this computer for Planning Commission I had it set up here I have like a dual monitor no yeah you you've got it fixed for me [Laughter] it's a display it's a display issue no it's because I have a I need to tell it that I've got to monitors you know what I mean so carries when she moves me thank you yeah that one duplicate you had the right you have the right does that look right yep okay sorry thank you it was my fault actually oh nice thank you well this is not working as I would like it too well you're going to have to look at my notes and the screen because this is not set up as I would like it to be um because I was using technology last time that's not moving forward of today so anyway so our concept plan is on the right and our development site is shown on the left okay okay so you'll recall that we obtained bids for the improvements in the spring of 2023 and they came in higher than we expected so the Eda met and they advised that we instead seek to pave the entire lot and then in July we came back to them with a couple of options so we reviewed the full parking lot Paving versus the half parking lot half Turf as it was originally designed and after some discussion the Eda favored the option to fully pave the lot and they also suggested that they would like to see some planters added in addition to that along the sidewalk area on 7th Avenue so they requested that staff come to the city council and request a 50 50 cost share with um with the city and the Eda where Eda would pay for half the cost of the full Paving city council pay for half the cost I'm sorry the Eda would also pay for the other half plus five thousand dollars for Planters so the city council contribution would be 26 272.50 so we had that proposal presented last meeting and at your direction um you asked for staff to follow up on some additional options um full parking half parking half Turf have parking half astro turf and um I also put together a no action option let me make this one bigger so the costs for each of these options is displayed on the top no action is nothing the pros of that is that there's not any immediate term investment and the site can remain available for temporary snow storage which is currently used for by Public Works one of the cons is that it remains out of conformance with our our parking ordinance which requires the parking lots be paved with asphalt or concrete the full parking option is fifty two thousand dollars uh 545 dollars sorry it's the least costly of of the options other than the no action it would formalize the parking lot that currently exists it'd be a low maintenance option we could still use it for snow storage and it would bring a lot into conformance um a con would be we eliminate the option of an activity space oh I must have missed a slide in here I'm going to go back to this one here so before jumping into the pros and cons staff did evaluate the the different options based on our planning um planning documents we have the comprehensive plan the Redevelopment master plan and then we have the park Improvement plan so our account plan shows this as a priority Redevelopment site that's likely to develop by the 2030s for the future land use map our Redevelopment master plan specifically describes this property as an opportunity to convert the space into a Downtown Plaza it was understood that the Redevelopment master plan envisions this open space as a connection between 7th Avenue and zeppela if Seth below was ever going to be converted as a living Street a pedestrian friendly multifunctional Street so that would be kind of a broader reconstruct of that area and this could be a connecting piece if it were to be utilized in that in that sense and then our Park Improvement plan also indicates that we do need a we do need some park space in the downtown but this is more of an urban area and there is another site in the downtown that would be more appropriate for for a park in addition this is not as um Central centrally located to some of those new apartment uses the one that's over on 7th Avenue and North Saint Paul drive would be more um fitting for that purpose so back to the analysis of the alternatives so as I was saying the con of the full parking is that we eliminate that option that um could align with the Redevelopment master plan and then it also doesn't meet the Landscaping requirements of our zoning ordinance in terms of um we haven't gotten a bid that would allow for landscape islands in the parking lot which is a requirement for every 12 spaces so the half parking half Turf and the half parking half artificial turf the costs are shown on the screen they both create the Gathering space downtown improve downtown appearance they both are somewhat in alignment with the Redevelopment master plan I have continuance of snow storage possible but that is not correct on the half turf that would not that would need us to move down to the con area we would not be able to use it for that purpose and yep and then ongoing maintenance and watering costs would be a con for that I have turf and then the um artificial turf low maintenance no water required and it's the most costly option in addition to them can't use it for snow storage so can you walk me through why the half Turf half parking lot went up 52 000 since last month I see that a portion of it is um water but there's also a loader in there oh yeah five thousand dollars a month that six months for a loader that is based on what our Public Works director has estimated would be the cost to store the snow if we're not able to use that site to put the snow why does that get bumped on top of that why that was I don't understand it's an additional cost if we go with this route we'll have to go ahead and fund that activity I'm gonna I'm gonna disagree with where that cost should go I'm not understanding what you mean I don't understand how you can assess one small spot to be I've thought for the entire use of a loader yes you've got to move snow okay um would you like to uh you got off easy in the last room my question is why does it get tagged on half half on half off why I mean we're gonna we're gonna have to rent a loader regardless correct yes why does it get lumped onto this project more than likely I don't know why well I mean it got a long time in this project just because that's where we start snowing right now and we just had to transport that so you know twice as far to to remove it that's probably why I got lumped on that project yeah right so right now we went to timing that we have to get the snow out of downtown we pushed we basically split the downtown into half and half of it goes on that lot half of it goes down on the old right price slot and then that allows us time to remove that snow with trucks in the upcoming days after we get that snow out of downtown so instead of if we lose that lot to put so in um it's going to have to go back um in the lot behind or the the old I call it the old Foster Body Shop lot but um back in our public parking behind the mortuary so it's twice as it's a it's almost twice as far if I'll push so we're gonna have to have two loaders downtown to so those guys can get that snow out of there and the amount of time that we have so we have been talking about this just with the development of downtown um in the future with all these apartments going in and losing spots to have that snow storage down there and we know eventually we're going to lose all those spots to push the snow too so when that happens it's going to be contracting trucks to come down there and work with us additional people to get that snow out of downtown and the amount of time that we have or fill into the Stalls not push it to these designated spots and then try to deal with that snow in the upcoming days get you know taking up these stalls and in the future so is it fair to put it all in that I think it's there because that's when the topic came up of hey what are the if we're doing this how does this affect everything so I believe that's all came up with from yep from Margaret basically seventh and Margaret um East all that snow goes there all the stuff in the city hall parking lot the back of the parking the fire you know the fire bit or the fire aprons all goes in that lot um and you know the front of the the front of the fire station all that snow goes across the street where they're talking about you know doing those garages or um and then West all that stuff west of uh Margaret on Seventh goes down into that old gas station lot that is there two are in the laptop during that time so when we when we redid that site we had half and half when it came off the street it was snow stored where the old Macs were the were the new apartment of Max Diner was a store in that City lot yes it was yep yep that's where we used to push it and then we started utilizing that corner lot on Helen and seventh where the old gas station was Ron if we were to repave that site with brand new payment brand new striping but still kept snow storage and removal there um how do you feel that that equipment um does that shorten the lifespan those big loaders in the trucks on this brand new paved well it would if it would if the lot wasn't built correctly but we'd build it to handle what that would be okay or what what it would mean can you speak to the timeline in which you plan on phasing out storage and and putting snow downtown you said when the apartments come in or are you going to slowly gradually you know make that shift what's that look like well when we start losing these if we lose these two sites so I'd kind of plan on this park we were talking about I'd kind of or this lot we're talking about right now I'd kind of planned on for this year I started talking about this last year with financing hey if this is going to happen I'm going to have to try to handle snow differently down there just because we only have a short window of time depending on when it stops snowing but basically we have from 1am till 5 a.m at best to get the snow out of downtown right now we handle it with one skid steer and a guy in a loader with a big snow push on to get this snow dispersed out to these spots that's so all the Lots or all the parking spots are cleaned out in the morning so there's no parking spots that are taken up with snow um if so if we have to double how far we push this snow it's going to take more time and trying to think of how we can do this with not adding extra people not adding a whole bunch of extra equipment or having to haul that snow out totally out of downtown I guess the simplest way to explain it is if we lose spots to push the snow off just for that in that that five hour window for dealing with this snow I'm probably going to have to talk to you guys about contract hiring contractors to come down there to get this snow I spoke with White Bear Lake last year I'm to ask how they operate because they clean all their snow out of their downtown and the minimum guys they have is five and they go up to nine depending on how many how much snow they get and that varies it's Contract Trucking it's a whole bunch of additional equipment and people we don't have that I mean we don't we just don't have the guys when we plow every one of our guys is assigned a route and there's really no there's no extra so moving forward for the timeline as long as I have these spaces to push push this stuff I'm going to use them so the timeline would be if these spots got taken up I'd have to come up with a plan to figure out how I'm going to get that snow out of downtown in that time that we have or we push them out to the end of the Stalls why I don't like doing that is because there's you there's plantings and um stuff in the end of these stalls that get you know covered up and then when we go in and scoop it out with the loader we end up digging up irrigation we end up digging up the plants as careful as we want to be with it we get a big snow and then just moving around it requires more overnight work to do that which is more noise downtown when we push the snow off to these designated areas right now we can we deal with that during the day after the guys are able to go home sleep and you know deal with it it buys us time to do it otherwise if we cover if we start taking stalls up on big snowstorms we could take up you know two or three stalls on each end of that parking down there with snow so timing will be I guess how this stuff gets developed or if we build stuff in there where I can't utilize them so it sounds like it's a um an issue that's going to have to be addressed without a doubt it self well exactly and it's just something that's in the back of my mind that I that I have to plan for and losing that spot that's why I started talking about this additional loader um yeah we're probably getting we're going to have to release the loader one way or the other this year um we got a a plow truck that were that we're not getting that got canceled that we're supposed to get and I so either way we're going to lease this loader how it gets applied to whatever here is a little bit higher than me but yes but this loader will probably be coming one way or the other for this year at least to try it to to try to come up with a plan for future and how we're going to deal with this in the most cost effective way with the least amount of people so right now that area is indicates opportunity for redevelopment why isn't it for sale why don't we put for sale we're looking to sell that lot so instead of creating a park plan or a parking lot that's going to cost money regardless leave it and put it up for sale then you have a place to put Snow you're jumping ahead of in my presentation but you are you mentioned the truck but you're still if and space this year most definitely yeah if it's an opportunity if it got paved we'd use it if it stays the same we'd use it as soon as there's grass or turf in there it's off limits because it'll get wrecked thank you Ron yes you know two three grand to tap off of one of the other businesses on either side again Surefire project two three grand to tap off one of the businesses is it how do we did I come up with that price yeah I did [Laughter] yeah I I think our hesitation that good or we can just saying you think you did it's it's a real you know ballpark estimate because we don't know what we're going to get into once we once we get into the building we have no idea what would actually take without doing a sort of analysis and do we want to actually do um provide our city services public use benefits using private property I think that would we would have to involve legal in that to make sure that it would be an acceptable agreement and I think as Rana said in the in the past if any future problem with their water service would arise I think that we might have some considerations whether or not it was our our issue that caused it or not so I think that we should consider that if moving perfect down that path okay any other questions for Ron I'll let him get back to the back and come up with something well ready to come up okay so I I did have a slide here on zoning regulations basically both of the options would meet the the zoning standards with the ex exception of the the Landscaping we just didn't budget for that and also it would be an issue if it's not a long-term parking stall or parking lot other considerations we talked about the snow storage already and this this is identified as a Redevelopment site in our comprehensive plan so if we are going to do something other than that whatever the decision is we should be as definitive as we can and our resolution of that decision so that we know we can go back to that in the future if necessary and then finally why isn't it marketed we have that sign on it and there is opportunity to to do more so at this point I'll open it up to your discussion or any questions for me I could go back to that slide if you'd like for the analysis pros and cons well that's their proposal they were wavering I think a little bit at the last meeting but as an official vote wasn't made so I think it's still on the table can you clarify that I got confused um the Eda met last Tuesday and they asked for an update on this and I think that they were a little disappointed by the outcome from the council meeting and so they were potentially wavering on their patient yeah participation for moving forward but there was no action taken on this item so I can't give a definitive statement another option that's not I'm sorry another option not on the table is um we select one of these three to move forward with and then we could put place it in the capital Improvement plan you know punt it to the next year instead of trying to take action on it this budget year we could have it in the capital Improvement plan for next year or a following year we do have the money though for that we would be planning for the money um we plan for it yeah I'm just I'm just giving you another option if you didn't want to react to it tonight um if I remember it correctly and in our Workshop there was a discussion about a plan and one of those plans was the downtown park the the park Improvement plan um that from this presentation tonight um earlier this evening at our Workshop oh yes our Park Improvement plan does identify a need for a downtown park it does not identify a location for it um but it does talk about a site on the intersection of 7th Avenue and I think it's North St Paul Drive where or that road was realigned it's across the street from reflex medical is a green triangular space next to some town homes and so that is an undeveloped Green Space that was identified as potentially a future downtown park but it wasn't specifically called that and then as a separate recommendation we need to have a master plan for a downtown park and there's a there's a population growth happening so there is definitely a need for for Green Space how long and I know you're new here and there's always a lot of research to do but do you know the span of time in which that lot has been undeveloped or has been vacant um I think you are unusable 15 I was six yeah did your company do that plan they're what the Eda at some point after the building came down hired an architecture group to do a concept plan or were you on the Ada at that time we've done coring on the property since I've been there yeah but I don't think I wasn't around for the concept plan this may have been I'm guessing here but I think maybe 10 years ago Ron said 15. Mr please okay it was about 12 years or 10 years ago there were there were challenges I'm not sure what the challenges were because of the Jason building okay so I guess that would is that site do you see more of a develop for the other buildings together more of a bigger concept down there or thank you can so was so after it was tore down torn down the building was torn down then it became a parking lot it was paved to be a parking lot or no it was just as is like it is right now I don't know that it was ever paved remain there and carry that got poured down by refilled in recycled Mason right so the parking was in the back like the cephaloside okay interesting so I guess that we could probably comfortably say action was never taken to formally turn it into a parking lot thank you and from an Eda standpoint I started almost two years ago now where the action started was I don't think the city is in compliance with our own ordinances for tear Downing of a building and I think it's supposed to be planted grass or something supposed to be done um so that's that's where it started because it wasn't aesthetically pleasing um and we weren't we weren't necessarily following our own ordinances is where this started and this is where I write it that mystery um can you speak to like the decision is it strictly cost and ease to just do a parking lot or it was there like um because I know that there was discussion around a parking study in the next year so I'm just trying to understand how that all know that there was ever a discussion at the Eda regarding parking study I think the Planning Commission had talked about doing something along those lines am I incorrect in that we do have information about Downtown parking and it's a pretty good packet of some of the work that's been done on that it's kind of changed for a while but I think that was good 10 years ago with something like that was done probably do for one um I would I would lean on the mayor and council member Cole to want to provide an update on what you thought was the outcome of the discussion at the Eda regarding the site I have to look this direction because I was unable to make the meeting oh that's right so I yield my five minutes all right thank you part of that part also um not going with the with the Prosper every business of the um yeah I would and everything else I would agree with that there are still more aligned with improving the site in a cost-effective way they they want they can tear apart of the parking lot still have the back half or whatever they're going to do with it I mean it's it's can still be used it was stated that if if the city council chooses to move forward with an option that would result in Greening it up that they would really promote um making it clear that this is going to be green for a determined amount of time or is this actually going to be a Redevelopment site so kind of making that statement yes this is a temporary solution they're concerned that if it turns into something that resembles a park that public perception will make it continue to be a park long end of the into the Future Past maybe the intended purpose or tenure of the Green Space yeah I think I struggle a little bit because I find open space and plazas actually as a a tool for economic development it brings people down I understand car parking you know you need a place to be for that but comparatively I think we have more parking than we have Plaza or people space in the downtown so that's just kind of my my perspective on on that I'm uh not sure what people are referring to when they say Plaza I a typical Downtown Plaza could be a variety of different things if you think of cities like um Boulder Colorado for example has a pedestrian mall that's people only no cars it's brick sidewalks Planters fountains performance space public art not necessarily a park but it is a dedicated permanent feature of the downtown yeah I'm struggling with the fact that this is a opportunity for development and spending money towards us and then the amount of snow that we're going to be putting in there and pushing in there and if you factor in the salt and the maintenance of the parking lot itself there's just so many factors that I I don't see any purpose right now of spending the money correct is there a plan for the Eda to do additional development or marking of the dis of the site you had mentioned the sign um anything a little bit more proactive in terms of website my understanding is when we did the Redevelopment master plan that that would have been a tool to kind of promote development and that there may be an online component for that so I'm just kind of wondering where that falls in this scheme I think the Eda could certainly take that up for discussion come up with some options for how this could be marketed in a different manner and you are correct about the the development proposed or development Concepts development sites map that I think that was an option that we could hire a consultant to assist with I don't know that we have the volume of open sites that would necessitate that kind of uh investment but we could definitely maybe start working with a broker to see what the options are and to take it up with the Eda they've got some advice or relationships yeah I'm just wondering what the cost trade-off is to hire you know a broker versus um just I mean I would love Green Space and a plaza um and um it just seems a little bit like there's more to do before we kind of take the leap here in my opinion mind I thank you Ron for coming up and speak I was at the city picnic and public utilities was out there so I asked them about just in general different things so they spoke to me and then Brian about the needs of the city for that for that spot and how that works and being able to move move the snow at their the pace that they need to without adding a lot more labor and equipment to it so I took that into account also um just coming up to code with what we got as far as we're not we shouldn't have dirt in the middle of the gravel and things like that just to bring us up to code for for the price of 26 whatever it is plus the Eda kicking in and having some more spots for say during the car show and just different be able to make that more of a utility spot where we got the parking we got the snow we got things where we can do a big it's not a huge cost if somebody comes and develops it right now it's been 15 years I mean who knows how long it's going to be there for it's just this little niche spot it's going to cost a bit or our developer said he couldn't get any loans on the commercial space that we had for the um our big project down at Lily so it's very hard to get commercial loans right now things like that so to me it's to bring us up to compliance be able to utilize that for a bunch of different scenarios parking snow and things like that and it's I know it's all comes out of one pot but it's half of the half of the price of the regular one to be clear it doesn't bring us fully into compliance yeah does it no okay I think so okay explain oh they're the land sorry the parking ordinance requires that for every 12 parking stalls that we have some sort of landscape Island and to install those would increase the cost and it would also negate the snow snow storage possibility um yep it's the on the screen um second column bottom point I mean I was pretty vocal last month and I was a local theater I believe I was the only one who voted against the full parking lot option um downtown needs to escape downtown needs something this is a property that is for sale so doesn't behoove the city to spend a whole ton of money in hopes that it would sell in the next 12 to 24 months um something does need to be done it isn't pretty it's an eyesore to the downtown area in my opinion um I would I'm you know if I if I understood because number one correctly I'm in favor of let's hire somebody to get things sold let's get it done and not not spend any money downtown utilize that money differently that's option five I'm I believe someone in line with that my opinion would be we would give and maybe this has already been done Parks and Rec a month or two months to decide is this the site that we want to go long term for a downtown softscape um because I agree downtown does need some areas if it's decided that for this is a great long-term spot for that we go that route otherwise it's zero action get it sold um but but I would be in favor of making sure we don't want this as our long-term softscape I guess my question is is um why why is it uh why is per like a temporary desirable for you it's not okay um so you want okay if we're gonna make it a soft game it should be a scarf safe for a long long time I see I hear you thank you for that clarification absolutely yeah I'd be okay with that as well the way yeah the way I I hear it is we ask for a little bit more energy around selling it and getting it developed and or a solid investment into that space as a soft space I think it's in the middle of a bunch of different things where there's ripe for redevelopment because it's there's a lot of old buildings there I mean it's more than likely that's why I asked Patrick that question more than likely somebody's going to probably come into want more space and take down the older buildings Maybe situation and it becomes a park thing and it's pretty tough to do something like that so going forward doing nothing for now is kind of the just yeah I'm yeah okay yes do it or or I mean we would request that there would be that that's actually what I indicated earlier we Market it if it's for sale then let's Market it for sale instead of saying an opportunity for development people don't know what that I mean yeah it's an opportunity for development is it for sale yes it's for sale so let's Market it for sale and have no action made it 15 years the City attorney Ryan you got a parking lot it sounds like another winner this is on the council agenda as a discussion item would it make sense for them to give direction in the form of a vote yeah we have to only because it's something it's a discussion oh yeah and so I don't think there's necessarily a vote so much as if there's a consensus that can be reached and then a Direction given so I believe the direction is to take no monetary action at this time and to instead engage with the broker to figure out what it would take to actively Market the site okay I take monetary action to work with a broker I honestly don't know I don't either that was that was why I said the normal the question the no monetary thing okay no clue if it does if there is any sort of commitment then it would be brought back to you I'm up next so when you're ready for me to move on to the next thank you Brandi hi Brandy yeah right next thank you for appreciate you doing I appreciate everybody's input that's awesome welcome would you like to introduce the next item so the next item up is a consideration of development for proposal of the 17th Avenue and Delaware Avenue site which is a two and a half acre lot that uh looking at proposals for development earlier this year we the city has we've received some interest from a couple of independent parties to look at this site and um we created an RFP and sent it out to those three specific developers and we received two proposals that were complete and they were both invited to give presentations last last meeting and they did here's the subject sites is two and a half acres city-owned parcel at the Northeast intersection of 17th Avenue in Delaware Avenue it's the location of a former church that was demolished in 2009 we acquired the site in 2010 to eliminate lighting conditions there it's across the street from Richardson elementary school and half a mile from both of our community size Parks Casey Lake and Silver Lake and it's also adjacent or not adjacent to but within a quarter mile of Polar Park in Tower Park the surrounding uses are two one and two story single-family homes and as well as the school so as I mentioned two proposals were received the first was from KT and Andrus who proposed six single-family dwellings um that would front Delaware and 17th approximately one and a half acres would be undeveloped for storm water and green space purposes the density of the site excluding that green space would be about six dwellings per acre no interior streets or driveways are proposed everything would be accessed from the existing streets and preliminary discussions with the Ramsey County have indicated they are favorable to allowing that it is their County highways that we do need to get their permission and their proposed purchase price is seventy thousand the other proposal was from High Point group they since the last meeting they actually submitted this New Concept that's on the screen this current proposal is 12. twin home units so six buildings 12 units and they're proposing approximately a walnut care would be remaining for the green space in stormwater purposes and their development density is eight dwellings per acre and their development includes an interior shared driveway for 10 of the 12 units and the other two would have direct access from from Delaware Avenue right here and they are proposing to purchase the site for 150 000 with that density so sorry go ahead um we did some analysis and looked at the various plans that the city has prepared and what they have to say about our housing goals so those are on the screen both of them enhance the neighborhood value with quality housing options and types at all price points uh the comprehensive plan also designates the site for medium density residential which could allow up to 12 units per acre if we were to rezone it to our two mixed use mixed residential sorry we did provide or prepare a housing study that was done last last year and the housing demand that is expected to occur between 22 and 2030 is on the screen for the various products and the remaining demand for the two different products is shown um in the far right column so if we were to take the K T proposal we would still have to provide 34 single-family homes at some point in the future and for high point we would have a remaining demand of 231 after their after their proposal was constructed foreign considerations I did a kind of as thorough of an analysis as I could with the limited amount of information that I had but what I have learned is that there's deficiencies in both neither one of them can be developed just straight out um K T and Andrus they had uh area variance needed so a couple of the Lots didn't meet the minimum lot area requirement so if they were going to move forward that would be one of the zoning requirements that they would have to clear up the high point group requires a PUD they had some they need flexibilities for a minimum lot area lot width and setbacks and there's also a provision in our zoning ordinance that requires groupings of two family dwellings to automatically go through the Pud process so they couldn't get out of it just because if there's more than one two family you got to get a PUD can you speak to why that is um why it's in our zoning ordinance I can't speak to that but I think that it is common or fairly common in certain cities where they feel that High volumes of that type of use can have certain negative character impacts on a neighborhood I our ordinance doesn't indicate why that provision is in there um but it is a requirement it does give the city some more control over site planning and Design in these cases so comparing the pros they both are going to give us some new tax base the use for k t Andreas aligns with the existing development pattern it meets housing goal number one and contributes toward meeting the first sale single-family demand High Point has a higher purchase price the new tax base their density aligns closer with the future land use goals of our comprehensive plan it also means housing goal number one and contributes towards that multi-family demand cons for the two are purchase price for TNT is lower and again they both have cons because they can't be they can't be developed as presented as presented without getting variances or puds not necessarily deal breakers but they can definitely be accommodated but it's just an additional flexibilities that need to be granted so other considerations one of the things that you guys talked about at your last meeting was let's let's turn that green space into a park and I just wanted to maybe talk you through that there is a number of parks in the area and that land is kind of landlocked and it wouldn't be publicly available so some other options would be make it a green space for the for the tenants that are bordering that land um and we could also look at alternatives whenever that comes through would a community garden be conducive to that space potentially if we have a way to get Grant access to it so next steps if the council decides to move forward with either of these we would select one of the two Department development partners and then we would start negotiating with them on the on the development agreement and the purchase price and once we have that completed then we kind of move forward with our our zoning entitlements the Pud or the variance and then we would have to also go through the preliminary and final plotting process what did we purchase the lot for oh the amount um I believe it was 160 000. 20 did we I can't remember if we toured or they tore down they did that's what I thought yeah it was bulldozed in 2009 we bought it in 2010. um we have our housing student housing program our are considered HRA program so um you're looking for land I think as far as maybe somebody was as far as our development we talked to the school the lady who runs the program is very excited about the program um Tom's going to be around longer and uh it's uh it's a big hit for them as far as bringing students in and things being able to do that with the school programs so trying to find land around the area is pretty tough um developable land and that would be maybe six spots for future housing as long as it's not for a while there people are talking you know quite a bit you know if we're going to go along the lines of single family there it's been kind of broken down into six spots right now we got a spot next to the house they just did which when we were there doing the tour they already had multiple people looking at trying to purchase it before it even went on the market so and there was like 20 some on the wall so if we if we're going to continue this program we're going to need land and if we don't land we're they're going to be looking elsewhere so is that maybe a an idea of taking this and using this as a student this is what I'm asking the people using this is the the future of the student-built housing program it is it would be moving into a different direction but we could certainly consider that I just wrote there because I know we're running out of spots if we don't have it then they'll probably move on to somewhere else I think if that's the sorry the direction that Council wanted to to send to staff we could certainly explore that opportunity I'm asking the I'm asking the group here can I before we before the group I just wanted to clarify I was able to look up the purchase price and it was 140 000 back in 2010. so 150 is one price 70 is the other price for the link correct thank you do you know what the current value of that land is um we we inquired with ghost Realty what they thought it would sell for and they said I think it was like 500 to 700 000. just for the land just for the land yeah well that that wasn't a truck maybe just turned around and said that 500 000. you were he ran out there and took a look at it [Music] but I'm I had gone to the student build uh home and visited it and had a conversation with Jill in regards to um our partnership as a city and what type of space we have in the future I also had discussion with Randy and Ron uh in regards to where we're moving forward uh where potential areas could be doesn't sound like there's more than probably two at one of which they're going to begin next year and it has been identified and the following year in 2025 it's a maybe location so I think this is this is going against what I thought would be a good idea personally um and who I would have liked to seen but I also feel like this is a really good opportunity for our city because this in this program and Jill really likes working with us and likes the partnership with Ron and Randy and um how quick we are to assist and be there for them I feel like this is a perfect space for some additional homes and that will bring skill sets to students and uh in their future I was working with this thank you I can't hear you yeah I just want to make sure we're not uh see what happens when you come to meetings take notes you know Randy can come up too um no I you know what it's a it's a great program it is it's you know it's a lot of extra work for us um because you're we're basically like a general contractor it's something that I guess both of us have an interest in you know the construction stuff we we know that part of it um and you said Tom has been a great great guy to work with um you know there's lots of issues when you build a house brand new houses that we come across but we get together we solve the problems and you know deal with it um you know if talking about the biggest challenges we have is find you know would be finding Lots or us being out there you know doing that with everything else that we deal with but no I I mean I think it's it is a great program and if we can keep it going I mean this secures it for you know multiple years you know if this is something that their you know console is on board like I said from our our perspective yeah it's extra work but I think it's for a good cause in the end if it does fizzle after maybe two houses and something changes we still have the lots to sell to to develop I mean it's not like you know it's still there land for sale for houses so you know forward I think I could see the value of not looking and scrounging and maybe losing the program yeah and there's some sewer work that needs to get that needs to get done some sanitaries to our work because the houses that are on 17th there um their sewers go off because there's no sanitaries who are out in the front out on 17th Avenue so it's in the back we have to realign some of that to make you know something work but I'm just so people know that up front but I think that's going to be pretty much with any of these Developers yeah I just I'm looking for clarification when you say sewer work you're talking about moving that line that's in the property is part of it okay so we need to do some engineering studies and there will be costs involved with that yeah and I think that like when you're talking about the price for Timber ghost I don't know if you figured in I think a lot of these these prices at you know these other people have offered I think they've considered having to move that sewer and you know I I don't know what that that would be I think it's about 300 350 feet of sewer that we have to realign so I mean there's going to be you know some cost involved with that so yeah okay I would recommend that if there are no no further discussion or question go ahead you have a question please ask your question no I no I'm good I promise I'll I'll leave you alone now I was just going to suggest that it does seem like there are enough um unknowns at this point that it would not hurt to maybe do a little bit of analysis to see what the benefit between selling to one of the developers versus keeping it ourselves what are those costs going to be like what's it going to take to move the sewer line um what's it going to take to how many Lots can we actually get out of it I think it's probably going to be five instead of six just because they there's a variance necessary for the one that was six um I'm not familiar with that project we have to do a single car garage we didn't give them a variant so they actually got over a bit farther otherwise it would have a single car that first single level one they built so again this was on as a actually no this might have been an action item so I'll take your direction I I was also at the student built and I really um appreciated seeing the Partnerships there I mean you saw superintendents from across the East Metro um you saw Harbor Freight you know our team was there um and students and it was really beautiful to see um even local students students that live in North St Paul build a home in their own community so I do like the program quite a bit I do have some concerns in the the resale it to me it seems to be um cost prohibitive to a lot of people and so when I think about the HRA it doesn't really match the idea of affordability or the goals of affordability so is I'm going to throw this out there so bear with me but can we maybe also explore um different types of development for example like tiny home communities and things like that as a pilot I know I threw it out there sorry but I I think that um we can probably have more houses out of that they could probably finish that with a little bit less stress during the school this school semester but just something for us to consider um is is if they're able to do something a little bit different or we can mix it up all right I'm done I think it's a great idea it's a great concept something to consider well you know put a fly in the ointment what do we do now staff is seeking direction from Council for our student built yeah I really see that I was so excited was two young men that were taking their moms on tour as the show young female saying I did the window I placed the window in it's extremely rewarding it was really cool to see that and then even just the community coming out and taking a look at what students have done people that were there I'd like to suggest that we explore other options right now and it consider student build housing and notify our individuals that have placed in proposals that that where we were exercising another option right now are we voting on another option or exercising I I don't I would thanks Tim I don't know if we I don't think we're we have the capability right now because we don't have a lot of that information I think what you're giving me is direction to do some research on this other option to keep the lot develop it as student build housing under a potentially different okay student housing period okay how many houses can be built on that what's again cost for the sewer to be moved um with the understanding that we are open to non-traditional if the students want to conform to it as well non-traditional meaning like the tiny home okay concept correct thank you it's been an easy night hasn't it we had such a good meeting with uh with the program director and it's just you know shame to see it you know fizzle out because we run out of property and if we do to go the other way that's fine but just understand before we are paying an absorbent amount of money to buy a lot to do a student home building which is going to make the price of the houses even more I appreciate the direction thank you very much all right item d uh item pulled from the consent agenda uh is July 18 2023 closed session minutes uh summary of the closed session turn that over to you mayor apologize this is why I have Brian Reed so you're all going to have to bear with me here we'll just we'll just make fun okay this is after our closed door meeting uh Mr Randall it's Mr frandel Excuse me I already screwed it up is respected and supported by the city staff there is a need for additional clarification of the division and responsibility between mayor for let's try that again Mr Fernando and the city council the city council has additionally asked for improved Communications between Mr frandel and the city staff and the members of the city council the city council concludes that Mr Randall is working earnestly and in good face with the good faith with the city of North Saint Paul and has laid out adjustments that we can see better Communications which quality improve of service in the city's residence going forward thank you appreciate it next item up is item e pulled from the consent agenda and that is Declaration of equipment Surplus yeah oh right um I I pulled that item o did I missed something no do we need to approve what was because it was pulled from the consent agenda so it wasn't approved so do we need to approve what you read I believe that there is Clarity in regards to it still has been pulled and hasn't been nothing's been approved Jack uh yes so I think we can do a motion to approve the summary of conclusions removed second second long how's that started by Jack started by Jack I do we have a lot to say oh all those verses got the names right [Laughter] what say no all right welcome um I had pulled item o um the only reason I pulled it is um because it didn't list and I don't know if we have choices it didn't list what site these were going to be sold on do we have choices or is it always the same site oh where do we listen right this one municipid is that still the same one We Didn't Do It um I've had residents ask me before what happens to it um and I know they're interested so if we could um make sure that going forward when we're giving stuff that wherever we're going to list it is in the Surplus where we're gonna yep or plus is in the minutes that'd be great I will make sure that that happens okay is there like a minimum value for some of these yes a lot of the stuff what a lot of the stuff what we'll do um we'll get a on this truck we didn't you'll see there's no box on it we that was our old our garbage truck that we use it had a flatbed aluminum flatbed on it we actually took that off repurposed it put it on one of our other trucks to save us probably you know fifty sixty thousand dollars in buying a whole new truck so but what we do on a lot of this stuff is that we try to get a trade-in price on it if we're trading it in on uh trading it in on a new vehicle and then we'll tell them all right give us your trade-in price and then we'll put it out on um a bid site to see if we can get more than that and we'll set that as a minimum for what our trade would be so and we usually end up getting a lot more for it you know if we put it out for you know on a bid so I will make sure that in the future that I list that in there that's no problem well thank you got it all right yeah sounds like it brings more money appreciate it it definitely does so so I now move to accept item o so yes hi more pizza when we lost control all right next item up is item F which was pulled from the consent uh management service agreement for municipal recreation facility with the city of North St Paul and Triple Crown batting cages so I I did pull that item um I think most of us have gotten a lot more Communications from the public in regards to this particular contract um I think that it's worth um the worth our while to ensure that this does serve the North St Paul Youth and so in our contract there is a little bit of leeway around youth rates is there something for us to do as a council that ensures that North St Paul youth benefit from um disc disagreement does that make sense so so my so in the contract and Jack correct me if I'm wrong it states that the business can operate its rates as their business model and then the city would review and approve those rates is that correct that's in the in the contract that's correct and so I guess my question to the council is you know is there something there in terms of ensuring that our youth are going to benefit foreign youth [Music] that's a great question I mean would it be uh yes they would be a mom and dad's driver's license indicating that that's where their their school ID school ID which is another good option yeah so I I just want to make sure that we are investing in the youth I think that um given the state of um post pandemic our youth really need a lot more options and Outlets um and if we can make sure that this is the most feasible and accessible for them then I'd be all for that whatever that looks like would we still have that ability if the contract was passed as is and then under that contract and that wording then we would be able to address it from there uh sorry could you repeat the question so to address um the point that councilmember Wong has brought up do we pass the contract as is and then with that wording in there do we then address that specifically or how would you approach that um part of that may require some negotiation with the other party in the contract depending on what exactly you want that to look like as far as the contract is currently drafted there the city has the ability to approve but it does place the primary responsibility for setting rates on the contractor and so the city would not would have a somewhat limited ability to set that as this current contract is drafted and provided that it is his business it's really he said surprises on it provided that this is his business and what we have written in the contract is clear that we're asking him to um rent from the city technically because it's his private business he would have the same what his prices are yeah the way that it's framed in the current contract and I don't think it's fair to him himself to tell him that his rates should be changed when it's not our company well um I guess like my perspective on that would be from the lens of public private partnership like it would just be a an agreement that's that can be made um in at I see your perspective I mean I get it I just I it's his private business and I don't know if it's I don't think it is fair for us to tell him that he should charge North Saint Paul kids I'm just throwing out a price just to say it a dollar a coin versus two dollars a coin that is not and let me add that is not his pricing I just use that as an example yeah I guess like from that perspective it's um if if we are um collaborating to have you know his business on um city land then that would be the um that would be our mutual agreement and with that I think it's an opportunity to create a pathway for our youth to have better access I'm following you however there are other organizations that are renting from city property that we are not controlling what they are spending and asking their pricing for North St Paul students either and I would say that probably begs a larger question of what is our standard when we go into um working with Community Partners whether it be non-profits surveying youth or whether it be a completely private business or the leagues that are in our community I think yeah that kind of begs for a little bit more consistency on our end in terms of policy I would say that would be a separate subject to bring up at another council meeting anything else so the reason I'm in favor of doing a contract with Mr Bartholomew is I believe is a private business and from everyone I know and trust that gives me legal advice that if we just give him the business even though it's been done in the past that the litigation risk is high for the city that that was the reason why I was in favor of doing a contract was Mr Bartholomew um like I say I I have to go with the people that I know and trust to give me legal advice that was why I'm in favor of doing a contract however everyone I've ever talked to and it's not in question in my mind he is a wonderful man has contributed a lot to the Youth of the sports surrounding commit communities um and all that to be fair to him because it sounds like the contract that we have talked about and and presented to him isn't something that as of this moment he's in favor of I think it would be doing a disservice to him if we don't explain what the intentions are or what would happen should he choose not to sign it um my personal thought because like say truly believe it's a wonderful business truly believe he has a great business model there's no question that he has affected a lot of people but should he choose not to sign it I believe we have to let him know what would happen to be fair to him my thought to be consistent with everything I know which granted I'm new that building would have to be opened up for proposal now whatever we said we would go out for a proposal and whoever gave us the best proposal would be able to run that business for whatever contract length was determined um that would be what my thought would be what would have to happen the building like I said I want to give him every option to continue I want to make sure we're being fair to him as much as we can and work with him but but I think if if we don't outline something that's not fair to him two dollars uh square foot I think is where the contract lands now if I remember right that was the number that was discussed when when Bart was up front there yep that's for that price when he was here before that's what we're giving them that's what the contractor needs right now correct um I don't I don't know for this part we can do that no you know sorry with the information that's out there do you want to go forward with a vote and then if that passes at that point then we can address the cost or rates that we talked about and we'd certainly address any concerns if what would happen if the contract wasn't signed and before us enough we should vote in my opinion can I ask for a clarification maybe a reframe of what you're saying summary uh I believe we have presented him an option with a contract with what we believe is fair and consistent with what we're being told legally um and for the city um what I'm getting from him is that um this isn't something that he might choose to and totally his choice to proceed to move forward with um I just didn't know if we needed to spell out what would happen if or if that's just a conversation with him and Brian be new to city council um I mean I think that's a fair question for us to answer as Council too is like what do we expect out of that building in the future I don't think we've gotten any further past running it as a batting cages with the current contract with Mr bartholator yeah well there you go put it out for a boat I just want to be clear that this is this is the agreement that's like both parties this is a clear agreement that both parties are in favor of the two dollars that was discussed it was a price that he'd asked for but then also after the fact after we sat down he uh had requested again to ask to continue the way it was at no cost or vote yep all in favor somebody has to call for right we should call for a motion it's all moved so it looks like anyway second second council member Cole all those in favor of the agreement say aye aye aye aye it was again say nay nay all right thank you motion passed next up is report from city manager and departments I just have a couple quick things the Lily building is starting to come down they have the two buildings starting at Helen moving East down and they started on the corner or the west side of the building as of today and got part of that on the ground so that's moving forward the project downtown for the 7th Avenue reconstruction is still online to be finished up by September 11th um so that's that's coming along nicely also one report that we did receive a transportation Grant from MnDOT for a price of approximately 460 000 which would give us the ability to install a sidewalk from on the north side of 11th Avenue going from McKnight Road to Ariel that would be something at this point that we would work on for next year it would be an extra wide path um taking into consideration see what the requirements or restrictions might be on the granting money to whether or not if we can do some kind of biking path or if it's strictly a walking path but I know it's going to be a thicker and wider path for snow removal that the city would be responsible for um and that's all I have reports of council commissions and committees reports Jason unfortunately I missed the last Planning Commission meeting and the next Planning Commission meeting is on September 7th [Laughter] thank you the arts and culture commission met earlier this month the first week first Wednesday of this month they're super busy they if you've read the newsletter they've got tons of events going thank you for approving the muralists we're really excited about that and thank you to public works for working with our team with the arts and culture team to get that going there's a paint party coming up as well the art cart will be at the music in the Parks this week and project snowy is available for purchase yeah and planning's going underway for the arts and culture festival and collaboration with the parks and rec and yeah things are going really well we are looking at a phase 1.5 for our utility boxes so look out for that in the next there are prices for snowy yep and I can painted the first layer at the Silver Lake restrooms today for part of that mural so yeah yep yeah and I think he'll be out there and people can and come and chit chat with him and ask what his you know approach and vision is and things like that so that'll be really great Harkins don't wait for me to try to figure out your name my name is council member schweer and Parks and Rec had their last meeting canceled because it was fruit food truck night excuse me uh so the next meeting will be on August 23rd next Wednesday here in council chambers uh also a friendly reminder this is the last music in the park this Thursday at Casey Lake music is Mt Pockets at 6 pm Sumo Smo food truck will be there so bring your blankets and your lawn chair and enjoy the nice weather as I understand it's supposed to be very nice my time thank you thank you appreciate it I um went through most of it was about the the parking and understanding uh the different scenarios as we discussed that and um I think if there was much more as far as new business there really wasn't it was uh pretty late you remember anything Brian that uh jumps out at you no over different Alternatives okay all right that's it and we have General business and he's um I would like to thank Rachel Thompson for a wonderful host on National Night Out and I would also like to remind everyone that on the 26th is the legion brought and corn feed thank you um just a big thank you to the city staff there's been a lot going on and a lot of uh things coming your way and it's budget season so definitely appreciate although the extra time and energy put into into that so thank you that's it I would also like to did all that uh what council member Wong indicated with our city staff there's been a lot going on a lot of decision making a lot of research uh definitely Public Works and all the streets and fixing those I thank you all so much I also attended National Night Out the fire department in their open house they did a fantastic job despite of the rain thankfully they had an indoor location that a lot of us can just some of the stuff was moved indoors which was nice uh Tim and I went out and visited some of the communities I this was the first time I've done it obviously with being a council member and I tell you what I was exhausted by the end of the night of how much chatting I had but it was a lot of fun it was nice to meet some of the community members thank you all for being so welcoming and asking questions lastly visited the student build it is such a beautiful home had great conversations with all the students I the uh the staff that assisted them the parents I it amazes me the skill sets they have gained and what is opening their eyes to trades a definitely a um I would say a dying industry right now and not a lot of people are going into it so it's exciting to have this opportunity delivered to students in our city um super thankful for Randy and Ron as they helped the student build uh and oversaw that as a general contractor you guys answered a lot of calls in regards to it not only with the uh neighbors but also we're willing to jump up and go straight to those houses that student Bill house upon questioning you guys are making a difference in those children's lives so kudos to you too and Tom for overseeing the project you guys are making a big difference boy that's hard to follow ditto I'll get your name right try uh reiterate a lot of things have already been said that's the goal that's what's the lucky part about being last lungs we're not voting um it's again there's been a lot going on it's been a month since we sat here last a lot of stuff goes on our community um it's the dedication and hard work of of staff and in all the Departments to make everything wonderful National Night Out we drew straws to figure out uh it's always fun to see who wants council members to attend their National Night Out meetings and you never quite know what you're going to walk into uh I got to be very happy to say that we hit all but one even after all the rain they were all going except for one um and a lot of positive accolades to what the city's doing a lot of questions about the streets which um I've got to thank Brian because I anticipated some of that so he you know gave me some information from a from a timeline standpoint um a lot of new neighbors a lot of new residents in in the city over just the last several years um and they sing the praise of what North Saint Paul is that's that's phenomenal to hear student-built housing I won't go a lot under that I think it's been covered other than the point I think the parents were smiling bigger than the kids those parents that were there watching what their kids did were proud I'm done all right thank you very much I joined you on all those little adventures and I we also wanted to discuss the um the North St Paul uh picnic for all of our employees and just how thankful we are to everybody at North St Paul and their employees and just being able to walk around and talk to everybody and it's just a great group so it was my pleasure to be able to attend and I know the rest of us too it's uh we're very lucky and we're grateful so thank you everybody do you mind if I had one more thing there sure uh we'd have a successful paper shredding event last week up there at Casey Lake we had a constant flow of people uh so it was well attended and people were thankful and glad that we did it again this year I think last year was our first year as a separate event and they look forward to keeping it so thank you thank you all right I have a call for adjournment so moved so move council member Cole second career all those in favor say aye aye thank you everyone our next meeting is September yeah fifth thank you appreciate it um going