This transcript appears to be from a **White Bear Lake City Council** meeting (circa July/August 2022). Based on the context provided in the dialogue, I have identified the following speakers: * **Mayor:** Dan Emerson * **Ms. Kinsvatter:** Kerri-Anne Kinsvatter (Finance Director) * **Ms. Crawford:** Lindy Crawford (City Manager) * **Chris:** Chris Pauly (City Attorney) * **Councilmember Edberg:** Bill Edberg * **Councilmember Jones:** Dan Jones * **Councilmember Walsh:** Kevin Walsh *** **[00:00:00] Mayor:** i'll get back okay 10 seconds later uh the clerk will know fills in attendance all will be noted will you please join me in the pledge of allegiance to the flag of the united states of america and to the republic for which it stands one nation under god indivisible with liberty and justice right trust everyone had a chance to read the minutes and if so i'd entertain a motion to prove the minutes from the regular city council meeting on july 12. **[00:00:35] Councilmember Walsh:** motion. **[00:00:36] Councilmember Jones:** a second. **[00:00:37] Mayor:** all those in favor say aye. **[00:00:39] Councilmembers:** aye. **[00:00:40] Mayor:** any opposed the motion carries minutes pass moving on to the minutes of the city council work session on july 19 2022. **[00:00:48] Councilmember Edberg:** i noticed a typo it's trivial but third line second paragraph current plan have fallen very today's market so whatever would make that grammatically correct we'll make that correction. **[00:01:00] Mayor:** and with that i'd entertain a motion to approve the minutes. **[00:01:03] Councilmember Edberg:** i have a motion. **[00:01:04] Councilmember Jones:** a second. **[00:01:05] Mayor:** all those in favor say aye all right any opposed motion carries the minutes are approved moving on to adoption of the agenda any changes or amendments to the agenda seeing none i'd entertain a motion to approve the agenda. **[00:01:20] Councilmember Walsh:** second. **[00:01:21] Mayor:** i, have, a, motion, second, all, those in favor of adopting the agenda say aye. **[00:01:26] Councilmembers:** aye aye aye. **[00:01:28] Mayor:** any opposed we have an agenda moving on to item four consent agenda and entertain a motion to approve. **[00:01:35] Councilmember Jones:** motion. **[00:01:36] Mayor:** all those in favor of adopting the consent agenda say aye any opposed consent agenda is adopted all right item five visitors and presentations quarterly finance and licensed bureau report ms kinsvatter. **[00:01:51] Ms. Kinsvatter:** hi good evening mr mayor and members of the council tonight i'm bringing to you this the year to date reports from both the finance department and the licensed bureau the first packet on the license beer on the finance report we'll start with that i don't have a lot of comments to make on the revenues and expenditures a lot if there's any variations we've noted those at the bottom of the pages um i did want to say one thing though um as we look at our licensing and permits today we receded uh 424 317 and it's the final big check that's going to be coming from the school district project so that will be going in to those that licensing and permits number so it's exciting to have that as we look at the license bureau report that shows the performance indicators there's a couple of items that i would like to just comment on for you to add some additional information at the top of the page there's a list that shows the fees and it talks about driver's license when we look at the cumulative transactions that we've done for the year for driver's license in 2021 as of the end of june we had done 1300 driver's license applications that was when we were primarily still on an appointment basis so it was very limited um through june of this year we are at 9215. so there is a huge uptake tick in that activity and a lot of that is really focused on the change to the real and enhanced ids the deadline for getting for residents and to be getting those is in may of 2023 so with us having a line people being able to come in for walk-in transactions we've been seeing longer lines of people coming in a majority of the people are for the driver's license transactions so the longer line started right before memorial day i think people were getting ready was the end of the month they were getting tabs getting their driver's license and it's really been steady with extremely long lines through last week so we still have some lines but it's not as long as it has been in the last couple of months and even though the lines are long and there can be some frustration of the customers who are standing in line we have heard from many of these customers they have driven here from other areas of the twin cities because either so they might wait in our line for half an hour to an hour in their own driver's license in their local area the lines are two to three hours so even though we have these lines our staff has been able to move the people through we have as many people at the front counter helping the our customers as we have the ability to to service them and we also have our staff rotating through what we call is line duty so they're going through the line and talking to customers to see if they can help them with any questions kind of weed out if people are missing information or if there's a faster way to do it we kind of weed them out of the line so that people aren't waiting in lines for a long time and then getting up to the counter and realizing that they can't complete their transaction um as we think about all that the state has not raised the fee that we get so for each driver's license transaction that we do we still get just the eight dollar fee from the state that we get to retain um as i mentioned the customers have been driving from other areas of the metro and um some have mentioned that area dmvs have been referring them to us because the revenues gained from driver's license this is what i believe the revenues gains from driver's license it just it takes longer to process those transactions with only getting the eight dollars that there are some neighboring dmvs that are still on appointment only basis for driver's license and customers have said i visited the neighboring dmv and they let us know that white bear lake has a line and you can walk in and stand in line and get it and i couldn't get an appointment so i drove to come here and we've helped them there are other neighboring dmvs that are having some staffing issues so we're seeing them they've removed their saturday hours are kind of changing up their days so it's they're servicing customers from 8 30 to 5. so it's more of a schedule that's similar to what we changed to last year so i think that is all that i have right now but i will take any questions that you have and answer them thank you. **[00:06:05] Mayor:** council questions councilmember jones. **[00:06:08] Councilmember Jones:** how are the later hours going as far as traffic count concerned during those later hours that we've changed to. **[00:06:14] Ms. Kinsvatter:** mr mayor and council member jones that we've been promoting the hour so at first i think it was a little slow but as we keep going forward and promoting them we do have more and more customers that are coming after that five o'clock hour and just a reminder we are open until six o'clock on tuesdays and thursdays and it's a great time to kind of get in and get out so the lines aren't typically that long at that time but it does offer extra service time for people who work during the normal business hours it's nice to be able to give them an opportunity to come and see us to get their transactions taken care of thank you. **[00:06:48] Mayor:** ed councilmember (Edberg). **[00:06:50] Councilmember Edberg:** thank you mr mayor ms kinsfader um ask first about the license bureau so on a regular transaction where we get to charge eight dollars for the renewal is that a loss to us. **[00:07:05] Ms. Kinsvatter:** mr mayor council member edberg yes that is a loss to us it takes longer for us to process the transaction in the mnlars system which is the new system that the state is using there's what they're doing is our staff when they're entering the data from the transaction it's real time entry into their system so that any agency who's using that can get the data but that takes longer to go through they have quite a few fields so um you know when we first started the these driver's license transactions they were taking up to 45 minutes some of it is i think the staff needed to learn kind of the process we've been able to decrease that so it takes 15 to 30 minutes to do that so if that eight dollars is covering our when you look at that to pay our staff and their benefits and just the operating costs that if someone does four in an hour that's 32 dollars that we'd be making that hour but it's hard to do four in an hour so it's probably more like two to three. **[00:08:05] Councilmember Edberg:** and yet we're doing that with an increase in efficiency if i'm reading the report correctly we the uh number of transactions per hour has increased uh over the past um i'm going to guess the last year month over month and so for year over year any particular thing that you attribute the increased efficiency to. **[00:08:25] Ms. Kinsvatter:** mr mayor council member edberg i would thank our staff just understanding the program now that they've been using it for a couple of years and we're really promoting we can decrease the time that people are in the office and standing in line if they do their pre-op forms online so we've been promoting that and so people can go on and enter in a lot of their data and they get a code and a sheet to print off so when they come into the office they can have that to our staff person who can pull up the data and then they're not entering they check it over and that can save some time so i think those two combinations have helped and really working with having our staff person who goes through the line and doing line duty making sure that someone isn't getting up and going through a huge part of the process and then realizing they don't have the correct paperwork so it's really trying to be prepared so when a person gets the counter they can get helped and then moved on. **[00:09:20] Councilmember Edberg:** so i just want to know to my colleagues if we were operating as a private business which some folks say government ought to operate like a business with which i disagree the sense of we would if if this were a private enterprise we would be reducing time we would reduce our opportunities for lost leaders by sending them somewhere else we would undermine the service levels that we're able to offer we might even look at charging folks who don't live in our community us an additional fee or finding some mechanism for extracting more but we don't do that and i think that's something worth noting for us to be thinking about what what's that dynamic of economics of public service and how does that align with or how is that different from the economics of private sector i have two other questions if you would indulge me mr mayor. **[00:10:10] Mayor:** sure. **[00:10:11] Councilmember Edberg:** so going uh to the um um it's kinsmatter the second page of the well it's the first set of charts going down to forfeiture we've got a revenue for 41 000 uh recognized in the revised budget is all of that only so i know that when we make when our police department makes certain arrests usually dwis but doesn't have to be limited to that that we have authority under statute to after the case is adjudicated we get an opportunity to well we don't have the vehicle is forfeited to and we get a share of income is this 41 000 only from vehicles. **[00:10:55] Ms. Kinsvatter:** mr mayor councilmember edberg it would be a combination of drug forfeiture and um dui forfeiture so not all of it would be vehicles but a large portion of it but that 41 000 that's budgeted the year to date that we've collected so far is three thousand two hundred and ninety. **[00:11:15] Councilmember Edberg:** we're grossly underperforming right. **[00:11:18] Ms. Kinsvatter:** so we are not um that is the revenues i do not in our revised budget those revenues will be revised down. **[00:11:25] Councilmember Edberg:** all right so i just want to share with the council maybe some of you known this the process of civil asset forfeiture sucks it is rife with inappropriate takings generally by law enforcement we have notable examples in our twin cities the twin the twin cities area drug task force of a few years ago was nailed for that and there have been other incidences and i want nothing i want us to have nothing to do with folks being able to extract cash from folks simply because they think it might have been derived from something else the the adjudication process of taking possession of vehicles used in certain kinds okay that different story i don't have that issue but if we ever start finding out that we're allowing folks to extract cash because they think it might come from an illegal transaction and then the rightful owners have to sue to get their property back that's just plain wrong so i just wanted to clear and be clear on that one last one i'd like to go to is the american recovery plan so are we um so we have cash that to which we have been either awarded or is perhaps still coming are we fully budgeted on that and how are we sitting in terms of where what cash we have received what's still kind of in planning process do we have everything nailed down or do we still might we have some discretions out there that we should be thinking strategically about. **[00:12:45] Ms. Kinsvatter:** mr mayor councilmember edberg in the 2022 budget there was a budget that it was adopted for those funds we now have received all of the funds at this point and we just received our second tranche this last month so we have all of the funds and we're just following forward with the plan that was adopted so we have ex projects planned for 2022 there are projects in there that in the chart that shows what was anticipated for 2023 and 2024 it's the council when looking and talking about the budget could change what they wanted with 2023 and 24 but at this point there are not that most of the funds before our planning seems to be in place. **[00:13:25] Councilmember Edberg:** seems to be working rightly sized all that kind of good stuff. **[00:13:28] Ms. Kinsvatter:** correct. **[00:13:29] Councilmember Edberg:** all right cool thank you. **[00:13:30] Mayor:** anyone else councilmember walsh. **[00:13:33] Councilmember Walsh:** thank you mr mayor just um i was sitting here thinking on the license bureau as a business um uh and since you brought it up i i'll voice, my, thought, this, is, a little, this is an idea just i was just thinking about if i was running this as a business and the business was maybe basically in the city of wiper lake we've got we've got a captive audience in line and i'm just thinking about some creative things we might do with a captive audience in line that is not from our community it sounds like you're a lot of them maybe we have data on that aren't from white bear lake i don't know what it is i'm just kind of brainstorming but i mean you know even is there is there a a coupon book is there swag bag is there signage is there advertising can we sell advertising on the line i mean is there is there something we can do to so local businesses can promote white bear lake you know we got marketfest on thursday anybody in line this week should be told hey come back to white bear on thursday night it's awesome you come to marketfest so people come here they stand here for an hour um is there something we can do so that's just my brainstorm if you're gonna talk about as a business i'm i'm thinking about how do we sell so i'll i'll just leave it at that little. **[00:14:45] Mayor:** all right thanks bill we're gonna sell a chunk of city hall right out there well we might as well continue with this discussion so let me uh, throw, this, out, there, no, what, do you got no that's an interesting concept and i just wanted to follow councilmember edberg's comments i mean i i'm i'm on board with this this notion of it should be run like a business but i do admit that with regard to this it's sort of a locked game the fees are set by state statute there's nothing we can do about them and in fairness to our deputy registrar and every other one they've been taking it in the shorts for the last couple years it was even worse under mnlars now that we have mind drive it is infinitely better but it still is placing more and more burden on the deputies and it's not nearly as efficient so to me it should be run like a business the solution is as part of our legislative strategy pushing for a more fair fee that adequately compensates the work that's being done on behalf of our residents so to me that's the solution and that should be a focus in the coming legislative session anyone else on the council have anything councilmember jones. **[00:15:55] Councilmember Jones:** this piggyback it's my understanding too that the whole new system is that the data is being input by the folks here rather than the state so what kills me it's double down it's you you can't ask the businesses and there's private you know out there also to do both and yet they're cutting jobs at the state level and saving the money they're double dipping and it's it's yeah that's what really says i don't want to have a licensed bureau but according to certain people that know a lot more than me ms crawford um it's very difficult to un be a licensed bureau. **[00:16:30] Ms. Crawford:** thank you mr mayor it's also very difficult just to echo that don't quote me on this but i think there hasn't been a deputy registrar license issued by the state since like the 70s so it is a locked game it's impossible to get a new one so it the business model does work and it has in the past drive revenue for the city again it just comes down to the fix so that the fees are correct so that we actually can monetize it because unlike another business we can't set what our prices are if we could yeah someone that's coming from out of out of the area they should they should pay more because they're using up local services that are paid by local taxpayers so i digress. **[00:17:15] Mayor:** all right we good all right thank you miss kinsvetter moving on to item six public hearings nothing scheduled item 7 unfinished business nothing scheduled which brings us to item 8 new business first reading of a proposed interim ordinance authorizing studies and imposing a moratorium on the sale of cannabis products and on the establishments or expansion of tobacco shops who's taking this ms crawford. **[00:17:42] Ms. Crawford:** i can start with it and pass it off to the city attorney after so beginning on july 1st it became legal to sell certain products containing thc in minnesota we talked about this at our last city council meeting discussed that the minnesota board of pharmacy is the state agency that oversees these thc products there's currently no state level license required in order to sell the products and the board of pharmacies does not test or approve the products prior to their sale so as i stated the city council discussed this item on at their july 12th council meeting and ultimately decided that given that there is a great deal of uncertainty with the new act it's in the city's best interest to adopt an interim moratorium ordinance to allow staff to study the topic in addition staff has determined that there's a need to study the current city regulations regarding tobacco sales tobacco-related products and city limits so therefore the ordinance the draft proposed ordinance in your packet does include a moratorium ordinance to include tobacco shops in your packet is is the ordinance and given the sensitivity of the matter staff has already submitted a public hearing notice for the second reading of this ordinance to be uh and anticipated adoption at the august 23rd city council meeting so i would ask ask mayor tonight that the city council conduct a first reading of this ordinance and with that the city attorney and i can stand for questions. **[00:19:15] Mayor:** thank you chris do you have anything to add. **[00:19:18] Chris (City Attorney):** well mr mayor and council would you like me to hit the highlights on this or what would the group like. **[00:19:24] Councilmember Edberg:** i mean i read through it i'm good. **[00:19:26] Mayor:** does anyone else on the council want that i'm happy to indulge council member edward. **[00:19:30] Councilmember Edberg:** i just have so in my mind we have the ordinance affecting two related but different kinds of businesses and i just um so i don't have an issue with the um ordinance as it might pertain to the thc retailers most of them would be very new if we give them reasonable notice so as not to cause them to stock stock up in it and then get stuck fine i don't have an issue with that one what are we what's the implication for tobacco uh operations that have so far been in legal operation our ordinance is what's kind of needing review what's the impact on them ability their ability to continue to stay in business conduct business as they have. **[00:20:15] Chris (City Attorney):** sure mayor councilmember edberg there is no implication for existing tobacco shops it's the expansion or establishment of a new um or or the expansion so those who are in effect right now there would be no implication on them. **[00:20:30] Councilmember Edberg:** right that's what i just wanted to clearly have clarity thank you. **[00:20:35] Councilmember Walsh:** how many data how many tobacco shops fit that definition in our city. **[00:20:39] Chris (City Attorney):** you know without a city clerk right now i don't have that number off top of my head but we have all of that all that licensure licensing information on hand mr mayor for their family so this is a discussion i've had with staff that there are some retail establishments that have grown into that into tobacco shops uh and you know frankly your code doesn't really address that yeah and so there's this question well there's an argument can you you know technically the city could take an enforcement action against these folks to say you're engaging in a use that's not allowed under the code no the city hasn't done that uh so that's a sort of we we need to just look at that you know where does the council want to be with that do they want to expressly allow them uh or or what so that's really kind of let's get our arms around that so that was really the impetus for for that category. **[00:21:40] Councilmember Walsh:** so we don't have an ordinance on tobacco shops right now. **[00:21:44] Chris (City Attorney):** mr mayor and council member it's not tobacco shops are not in an identified allowed use under your zoning ordinance and so any use that's not expressly allowed is prohibited so but then you get into matters of degree your gas stations sell tobacco you know so so that's why i i inserted a definition of tobacco shop that puts a pretty high level 40 or more uh because they're the focus of that shop really is on tobacco and not gasoline and tobacco not vaping vaping is part of the products that are included with me okay. **[00:22:25] Councilmember Walsh:** and then another stupid question how do cbd shops fall into this business because i don't i'm not super high on the thc right 12 with the cbds and the 4h 10s no pun intended and council members my ignorance is glowing. **[00:22:42] Chris (City Attorney):** so i took pains in in the ordinance to focus on just those products that became legal to sell as of july 1. so any of the cbd uh the medical uh you know marijuana those sorts of things that were lawful before are not affected by this this is really targeted at just what became legal on july 1. **[00:23:05] Councilmember Walsh:** so we have a cbd selling ordinance. **[00:23:07] Chris (City Attorney):** mr mayor and council members i i'm not sure that you do frankly and that's that's something that we could look at as as well but the point of the moratorium is that we didn't attempt to address that since that has been legal for some time thank you. **[00:23:25] Mayor:** so is this ordinance and this moratorium in line with what you're seeing other cities do. **[00:23:32] Chris (City Attorney):** mr mayor in council yes so there has been a bit of a scramble now among cities to try to figure out how to address this some have gone straight into licensing others are taking this approach what you'll see is the different theories we've even had discussions internally in our office about the scope of of a moratorium like this this moratorium focuses on sale it does not get at manufacturer does not get on distribution does not get at testing my thought was let's focus on on kind of the public facing portion of this and and that the sale is is really something that's traditionally within the scope of the city's power you you license tobacco sales you license liquor sales you don't get involved in manufacture of liquor or distribution so kind of in the same frame of mind just focusing on the sale part is the approach that i recommend uh the city take and what i've taken in in other cities as well okay. **[00:24:35] Councilmember Jones:** mr mayor calls member jones on page three on on section i it does elude it it includes electronic delivery devices correct so that should cover us on whether it's nicotine devices or whether it's thc devices. **[00:24:55] Mayor:** okay anyone else on the council have any questions all right we had our first reading and this is set on for a second reading on august 23rd item 9 discussion nothing scheduled item 10 communications from the city manager ms crawford. **[00:25:15] Ms. Crawford:** thank you mayor i do have just some upcoming events to share quickly with you so this is the last week for market fest so the environmental advisory commission park board and bear tracks the av shuttle will be part of the resort the environmental resource fair this week many of our staff members will be there night two night previously known as national night out is tuesday august 2nd there will be various neighborhood meetings a couple of the council members i know are planning to participate with police and fire so that will be wonderful and bear tracks again our av shuttle there is a ribbon cutting and media event on friday august 5th at 12 pm at the ymca the mayor and i will be participating and all are welcome to attend there will be as i said media cut media event with ribbon cutting so and then safety camp is tuesday august 9th from 8 30 to 4 30 at podman park and that's all i have for tonight thank you. **[00:26:25] Mayor:** questions for miss crawford seeing none that concludes our business at entertain emotion to adjourn. **[00:26:31] Councilmember Walsh:** don't move (so moved). **[00:26:33] Mayor:** all those in favor of adjourning say aye. **[00:26:35] Councilmembers:** aye. **[00:26:36] Mayor:** we're adjourned now that's a record question because i have five minutes [Laughter] i'm just like tell us more about new tracks tell us more about this oh my god one honestly i just wanted to leave the hell out of here.