This transcript features **Mayor Jennifer Arsenault**, Councilmembers **Kathy Weier**, **Ryan** (Eisele or Hankins), and **Justin** (who is referred to by name throughout the meeting though not explicitly on the provided list). City staff including **Marsha Olson** (Treasurer) and **Ben Wikstrom** (Planner) also speak, alongside members of the **Road Safety Task Force**. [0:00] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: oh [0:08] [Music] [0:45] [Music] [0:55] [Music] [1:03] [Music] [1:09] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: good evening everybody um welcome to the city council meeting I call this meeting to order let's stand for Pledge of Allegiance... Pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible... [1:36] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: uh our our first item of business is to um approve the agenda uh may I have a motion to approve the agenda um is there any additions or that you would like to make? [1:55] Councilmember Ryan: yeah since um our planner is here should we talk about that variance application because I had asked to have that included in the agenda? [2:04] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: we can oh you you had okay all right yeah so yeah we we can add it okay so uh what would you uh would you for the record... Justin uh what was the address Ryan do you know anyone know? [2:20] Councilmember Justin: 425 lake or 25 Lake just quick discussion on that okay. [2:23] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: all right with that addition may I have a motion to approve the agenda? [2:25] Councilmember Justin: I'll move. [2:26] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: Justin moves uh second? [2:28] Councilmember Kathy Weier: Kathy seconds. [2:29] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: all in favor I I opposed motion carries agenda approved with the addition of a discussion of 425 Lake. I'd next like to open the public forum is there anyone here who would like to address the council? seeing none all right motion to close the public forum. [2:59] Councilmember Justin: I'll move. [3:00] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: Justin move second? [3:02] Councilmember Ryan: I'll second. [3:04] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: Ryan seconds all in favor I opposed public forum is closed um the next order of businesses announcements and and we're missing our administrator tonight she's not feeling well um uh one item that uh she mentioned to me to uh remind people of is that the filing deadline for um filing to be on the ballot for elected office uh for is uh 8:13 so I just wanted to remind people of that it's also posted um outside City Hall as well. all right do have one more announce? [3:50] Councilmember Kathy Weier: go ahead Kathy um I have started working with the volunteers on the deer hunt which we have contracted for um for 2025 um so if anyone else wants to jump on that feel free but I assumed you didn't so I've started so call her if you want to but we'll be discussing that in the September meeting. [3:56] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: okay great um are there any other announcements from the council? [4:03] Councilmember Kathy Weier: okay we're good all right all right. [4:05] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: um the next item is uh the consent agenda um may I have a motion to approve the consent agenda unless there are items um members would like to remove for further discussion. [4:18] Councilmember Justin: yeah I just have a question about the treasurers report. [4:21] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: okay all right so if we could remove that and then just we we we'll uh keep that in advance for further discussion with that exception may I have a motion to approve the consent agenda? [4:30] Councilmember Justin: I will I'll move. [4:32] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: Justin moves I may have a second? [4:34] Councilmember Ryan: I'll second. [4:36] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: Ryan seconds all in favor I opposed consent agenda approved um with the exception of the treasures report. Justin I yeah what questions did you have? and and Marsha is here. [4:49] Councilmember Justin: let me just scroll down to them so my question it looks like on the 13th we have one two three four five six checks for that pay period um which page are you on? [5:07] Marsha Olson: Justin Page four of nine and well okay so PDF page shoot they changed it on me um it says four of nine for the we're on the um disbursements register page... [5:26] Councilmember Justin: page 23 okay four excuse me okay five sorry keep keep messing... so there's a payment for clerk Treasurer of a th000 bucks clerk treasure for $51 clerk treasure for $2,188 Parks which I assume is Jim and then clerk treasure for $946 and then another parks for 925 I'm just kind of wondering uh most of the other uh payment periods look like it's like maybe that's right I don't know not sure I understand what you're asking so is that correct that we have so let's see it would be Becky um therese um you right that would be three checks and then Jim would be four so why are there six checks for payroll? [6:25] Marsha Olson: okay yeah if you could just follow up with that I don't yeah that's fine I'm not yeah just let us know. [6:35] Councilmember Justin: and then um yeah no problem no no it's not an issue I just just curious all right so um I've got one too if you wanta... [6:52] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: yeah um I have one more so um engineering review plan review for 160 and that's 237 I assume that'll be built to the homeowner right? [7:05] Councilmember Justin: yeah okay so the the answer was yes okay that was the ones I had sorry Ryan go ahead. [7:12] Councilmember Ryan: okay no no uh I was just wondering about the hose to water newly planted trees um that it just $350 for a hose kind of jumped out at me do we know what the hose was? [7:26] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: I I I can answer that question why don't you go ahead... okay yeah um so we planted some trees that uh were the result of monies that we obtained through Emerald Ashboro Grant it was from a few years ago it kind of started um before before I came on the scene but um it finally ended in June that was the deadline and so um we needed to get the trees planted in order to obtain the funds we did get the funds um approximately $9,000 um but um to water them we have to use our fire hydrants and we needed to get quite a lot of to to reach from the fire hydrants to the trees were planted and so and got the least expensive hose lightest hose possible like a $350 garden hose... [7:50] Councilmember Ryan: like wow okay no I was trying to find the $350 hose at Menards... [7:53] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: okay it it was a it was a quantity of inexpensive relatively hose and we needed keep those alive. [8:02] Councilmember Ryan: thanks for the update. [8:05] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: okay there's always a backstory yeah there's always well you always have to well it's you know it makes sense but like you know yeah okay uh any any other questions? [8:47] Marsha Olson: I think I can actually clarify uh your question the pay periods are 616 and 630 on those so it's two different pay periods that are listed on this one which is abnormal. [8:55] Councilmember Justin: yeah that is weird and it's because 6/30 as the beginning of a pay period that into July... yeah I mean it just it I don't I don't know that there's anything wrong with it it's just kind of jumped out at me as like there was an extra one and I was like well that's weird. [9:15] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: would you like to wait to approve the agenda until you get a a check that let's just wait... all right okay well we'll wait and then we'll we'll take it up next time thanks Marsha. [9:30] Marsha Olson: yeah okay. [9:33] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: and could we just yeah all right that's that's fine so okay all right um then our next item is uh City business um uh Road Safety task force I see that you're here great are you ready or would you like us to... are you ready to present? [9:51] Cora Hankins: yeah okay great. [9:53] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: um I I have to say um this was a a wonderful task force uh these people worked extremely hard and um they'll introduce themselves as they that we have them all here and um they're here to make a proposal after um a study of our safety conditions of our roads Cora Hankins is at the podium um well thank you could you speak right into the microphone thank you and and and then State your state your name and and address for the record. [10:18] Cora Hankins: I am Cora Hankins 165 Wildwood Avenue. [10:20] Ron Malice: and Ron Malice 420 Wildwood Avenue. [10:22] Art Arseno: Art Arseno 432 Birchwood court. [10:25] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: and just for the audience the um the map is is also included in the packet of information but for the people that are here they can make reference to what we're proposing there. thank you Art. all right Cora go ahead. [10:35] Cora Hankins: so did you receive uh the packet with our resolutions have you seen that? [10:45] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: yep we have. [10:48] Cora Hankins: um as a as a team we worked on those resolutions and we felt that those were those were what we'd like to see happen in Birchwood I did meet with the engineer um Marcus Johnson and he went over all those resolutions with me and he felt that those were uh very good so he made a few additions which I put into the resolutions um we've been working on this for months um and I I can say my team has been awesome they're great to work with so um shall we start with like go through the resolutions is that what we'd like to do? [11:51] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: great yes. [11:52] Cora Hankins: um we did have a public forum and the public forum was um um uh they approved the the they weren't resolutions then but they approved what the resolution State um the two policemen were also at that Forum um they also had suggestions and I put those in the resolutions um that they actually um agreed with us and they had some things to add also so uh anything else you can think of? okay um so let's just look at resolution number number one is we would like to propose a uniform 20 mile per hour speed limit throughout Birchwood um right now there's uh varying speed limits um Hall Cedar is 25 Wildwood is 20 um I I put down the reasons for doing that and I listed them we had several speed studies that were done those speed studies showed um the amount of vehicles that were going over the speed limit um and I think that that number is and the speeds that happened were not acceptable to to be for for Birchwood we're a small community with no sidewalks residential streets... so and I know Ron has talked with Mahtomedi um the city engineer there also about recommendations so those were included match... [14:05] Ron Malice: oh oh Ron can you would you like to just just let us know what what they said? yeah talking to the city engineer we were trying to match up the same type of signage and that kind of stuff and they are Mahtomedi 20 miles per hour so we're matching that if you want you get into the internal part of Mahtomedi it's 20 miles per hour in any Street so we're matching that along with the street that we abut to. [14:35] Cora Hankins: so so that's a um also we came up with some some costs for that um Ron and Art have agreed to replace the signs they would be they would do it for no charge to the city for their labor that would be $650 to contract out to put up new signs would be $1,200 um so any other thoughts on the? [14:48] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: okay great thank you thank you Cora. all right um well I'd like to make a motion to adopt resolution one to um uh enforce a a that proposes a 20 mile per hour speed limit throughout Birchwood may I have a second? [14:55] Councilmember Kathy Weier: I'll second. [14:57] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: all right let's discuss all right um I may questions from Council? [15:15] Councilmember Justin: um I'm I'm generally in favor of this my only concern is there's a state statute that requires like a I don't know the exact wording but it's like a you have to have traffic guidelines basically and do we have you guys looked at establishing those? [15:28] Cora Hankins: um we actually have a neighborhood traffic program and I would like to have um we looked at this and I tried to get copies for everyone but the this is from the Minnesota manual on uniform traffic control devices it was like $185 to get their packet Marcus who's the engineer said he has the packet it's it's huge um but this this we took from Blaine it's their traffic program I would like to have Birchwood look at it and adopt it um for Birchwood um I also have a resolution that I um I took from uh the city of St Anthony that um states that we are going to do a 20 mile per hour um speed limit throughout the city. [16:31] Councilmember Justin: so I don't know if I guess what the concern is and correct me if I'm wrong but the concern is that if we don't is that you know we talk about how Birchwood is a statutory City and that means that in order for Birchwood to have any power and for the council to do anything it kind of has to be the state has to say you can do this and so in this case there has to be some Authority for Birchwood to kind of take each action that it takes and we have the authority to lower speed limits once we have that document in place isn't that kind of the point you're making Justin? [17:19] Councilmember Justin: yeah that's my understanding is that we have to have the document in place before we lower the speed limit so we need approval from the state no we don't so basically my understanding is we just need I don't know exactly the exact language but it's like a traffic policy or something like that and it's just a document that that um I don't know I mean we would have to look at Mahtomedi and some other policies. [17:45] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: well why don't we do this why don't why don't we why don't we um do a little research to see what traffic policies other our surrounding communities have and then we can adopt the language that seems fitting for Birchwood from that and then and then once we once we have that language then we can revisit and and and then uh vote on this resolution does that make sense? [18:05] Councilmember Justin: it's I mean I I I'm definitely on board with it it's just we got to do it correctly otherwise it won't stick I mean I think the concern is as soon as somebody and maybe I don't know if maybe the lawyers can tell me but somebody could go and could get a ticket go to traffic court and they say Birchwood didn't do this right my 50 mile per hour down Cedar Avenue is perfectly legal. [18:35] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: well 50 wouldn't be legal but yeah... [18:40] Councilmember Justin: my 30 right that I'm getting a 10 10 over ticket should only be five over so it's an enforceability issue... yeah so we just want to make sure we're... [18:48] Ron Malice: how can we have how can we have a 20 mile per hour speed limit on Wildwood Avenue and we can't use that in another Street? [18:54] Councilmember Justin: a great why can't we? it would be that would be a really interesting thing to figure out is whether the when we did Wildwood Avenue whether those rules were followed that's an that's a pretty interesting it's it's entirely possible those rules weren't followed when the speed limit was lower to 20. [19:15] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: okay well let's let's yeah this is the first this is the first time time I'm hearing this so let Let's do let's let's look to see what traffic policy is required um for us to be able to vote on this. [19:25] Cora Hankins: this is what I printed up from the city of... could we see this Cora thank you... this is also what we looked at for our safety we can get other cities... [19:50] Councilmember Kathy Weier: well I guess we want we potentially want to vote on interest in doing that because if we don't actually want to change it to 20 okay then we can dig more into it if we do. [20:10] Councilmember Justin: so here's so here's from the statute um okay a City May establish speed limits for city streets under the city's jurisdiction other than the limits provided in subdivision 2 without conducting an engineering and traffic investigation this subdivision does not apply to town roads County Roads blah blah blah a city that establishes speed limits pursuant to this section must Implement speed limit changes in a consistent and understandable manner the city must direct appropriate signs fine and here's here's the part that we're talking about a city that uses the authority under this subdivision must develop procedures to set speed limits based on the city's safety engineering and traffic analysis at a minimum the safety engineering and traffic analysis must consider National Urban speed limit guidance and studies local traffic crashes and methods to effectively communicate and to and methods to effectively communicate the change to the public so there's just some paperwork is basically what we need to do. [20:55] Cora Hankins: we need to we need to establish this we've done the traffic studies we have results we have we've did three separate areas um I talked with Marcus Johnson who um felt that these resolutions were um appropriate and um we're... [21:13] Councilmember Justin: I'm not questioning that I'm just saying we need policies so we need to vote on a set of policies first before then we can change the speed limit okay so you want us to go to different cities and get find out what their policies are there's the policy for Blaine that um we looked at well we need to have one for Birchwood though right kind of written out yeah and well what I would do is use I mean I've looked through that and I think it's very appropriate um we would need to update that for Birchwood so this is uh just for everyone's reference this is State Statute 169.14 subdivision 5H. [21:58] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: okay we just need that document in place Cora that's all it is. [22:04] Cora Hankins: yeah and I I think uh committee I I think one more meeting and we'll have it thank you though for all the hard work so far I think we're nearly there you want the document a policy document we need yeah we need it doesn't have to be have to be lengthy it's just got to be a couple of pages you know it's it's could I just can thank the state for that. [22:30] Councilmember Ryan: could I just make a request that we take a a vote on our intent like Kathy suggested I think that was a good suggestion and then just um have an at least one email my preference would be three sent out to everybody in the city posted I know Ron will agree with me on a little bit of notice um and then maybe next council meeting just invite folks in for like a town hall and just to give people information and let them know that this is happening and we're voting on this um could we just do that in in September just to kind of make sure everybody's aware that the that this the speed limit is coming down so nobody gets kind of ticketed yeah ticketed cut off guard just to make sure make people aware that that's on the table here so yeah. [23:25] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: we certainly can do that I like that I think it's I think that's a good idea it's a road that probably every Birchwood resident uses every day so if we're going to make a change to it should at least have proper notification. [23:40] Councilmember Justin: okay let's U shall we take a a v a vote of intent? [23:45] Councilmember Kathy Weier: advisory vote... [23:47] Councilmember Justin: advisory vote okay let's do it all right well you have your motion and I have the motion second so do you want to amend your motion to be advisory? [23:55] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: yeah I would I would like to amend my motion that um uh it's an advisory vote from the council that there would be a uniform 20 mile per hour speed limit throughout Birchwood and increasing Patrol for the 20 mile per hour speed limit. [24:10] Councilmember Kathy Weier: and I will second that. [24:15] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: Kathy seconds all right um all in favor I opposed advisory vote carries all right so so thank you uh thank you very much task force you did a wonderful job and and it looks like we're we're nearly there and when we get a policy in place then we can we we'll vote on it after notification of the citizenry that we are planning to take this Step at the next meeting. [24:35] Cora Hankins: okay do do we want to do resolution two which is crosswalks? [24:40] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: sure sure you want to go into that sure um the road Safety Committee would like to add two new crosswalks with signage on Wildwood Avenue one would be at Birch Beach Owl Street and the other would be at grot um one of the things that I've seen is a near Miss at um Birch Beach and Owl where two kids were almost hit um school buses stopped there from for both from both Mahtomedi and White Bear Lake um on Owl Street there's no crosswalk there there's a um a walkway that comes down to Wildwood Avenue and goes on across Wildwood Avenue we'd like to have a crosswalk there also I think this would increase safety um in the area we would also like to have uh signs posted that say this is a pedestrian crosswalk and you must stop for pedestrians in the crosswalk what do you mean Center Line signage? [25:35] Ron Malice: so the center line signage is um typical of our neighbor and Mahtomedi on Lincoln town there's three crosswalks that currently have the the signage that we're proposing that would be a freestanding sign with a 28 pound weight um that would that a small smallish sign oh yeah and the when we had our public forum the sheriff whole the sheriff and the sergeant that were present said that definitely slows traffic down in those areas and that's one of our concerns of that some of the the citizens have complained that people disregard the speed the speed limits and so we're just trying to assist them in moderating their speed. [26:41] Councilmember Justin: okay so which side so is this on um which so on on Owl Street which side would that be on the Rainy I don't know if rainy lefoy or so as as you're coming side or the other side? [26:55] Ron Malice: as as you're coming from White Bear yeah there would be a sign on the right before owl okay mhm on the side then a center line and then the painted crosswalk if you're coming from um Mahtomedi it would it would be before you get to Owl on that side of the street there would be a sign freestanding signs it notifying the driver that there's a crosswalk coming up so you have to one you have to warn the driver that crosswalk is coming up and then you show the crosswalk right. [28:15] Councilmember Justin: and are those placed in the right of sorry I'm looking at your map there either the right away or in the park there before the it's like yeah where is the crosswalk itself going like is it? [28:30] Ron Malice: the crosswalk would be directly across owl directly to the to the easement the the signs though is what I'm asking this it's not going to go in somebody else's yard it's going to go in the the Wildwood Park there it would be in the public easement just yeah okay portion of the road I believe that's where the lift station is going to yeah so we might want to wait on painting... [28:55] Councilmember Justin: yeah I think it's a great idea um but we might just have to delay that one until yeah done tearing things up down there y wonder if we can put up the crosswalk sign or pedestrian crosswalk to warn people beforehand one uh before that happens... [29:08] Councilmember Justin: one General comment on this the signs um uh seem a little expensive for equipment wise like the parks committee we might want to just check with whoever does the signs for the parks because they got those for like 25 bucks a sign I mean it was super cheap so I don't know if traffic control signs maybe are a little more expensive? [29:35] Ron Malice: they are but we might want to just double check we'll just have therese order whatever the last place she got him from that place we got 10 signs for 200 bucks so yeah wow yeah well we'll just make sure that that the traffic uh traffic signs uh aren't a special more expensive type of sign yeah got to make sure that we comply. [29:50] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: and Marcus Johnson said he was okay with the placement of this and everything? [29:52] Cora Hankins: yes and he even thought that um some of that could be incorporated into the road repair and the lift station that we're going to to be there he thought that could be added to the road um okay fix it so yeah he was very very um pleased with that one. [30:15] Councilmember Justin: great all right um any other questions from Council on the on the cost so in the resolution two we're talking about concrete pad on each side of the pavement crosswalk marking um but I don't see the cost on that as that... [30:40] Cora Hankins: that was what Marcus just recommended okay he thought there could be some um concrete um slabs there but he thought that that also could be incorporated into the road repair yes. [30:52] Councilmember Justin: I don't if that's if that's necessary I'm putting a uh concrete pad on the beach is that what you're saying? [30:58] Cora Hankins: no no no it'd be on the side of the road is it elevated no he said it would be a safe place where people could stand and wait before they go across makes that makes sense that was that was Marcus's suggestion that be on Grotto as well... [31:25] Councilmember Justin: I think I'd have to see a picture of what that thing is I'm not sure that's something I think that needs to be decided you know do we want to do a separate um place for people to stand or not? [31:40] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: well it makes sense to me especially in the winter you know to have a place that you can clear from with the snow and so that you safely can stand out of the roadway when there's a crosswalk especially children coming on and off the bus. [31:58] Councilmember Justin: it it it's a little hard for me to visualize something that's not that's not if it's in the road and it's at Owl Street it's going to if people are standing on it isn't that going to narrow the room cars have to go through I mean I don't quite that's what I don't understand is if this is in the road it's going to push people who are and if it's not in the road it's going to push out to the side which is going to be it's a little hard to understand... [32:25] Cora Hankins: that was what something that Marcus suggested um I think it's something that um we hadn't thought about so it really it really wasn't in our um original proposal. [32:40] Councilmember Justin: so I'd like to see a picture of that I'm not visually figuring out what that would look like. [32:45] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: okay well uh any other questions um still trying to figure out where I guess I'm not picturing where it's going to go the crosswalk yeah yeah where where does it go should should we look at the U Birch beach map map did you say you have a hard copy Cora that you could pass to the council? see there I should I mean I guess the one down at Grotto... [33:15] [Music] [33:25] Councilmember Justin: yeah thanks Ron orange on this right there right I guess my question okay is sorry is the crosswalk start here or here it's the orange thing so it's in the middle of the road the middle of the road would be concrete or it could be a 30 pound stand but this is the road like it starts in the road and ends in the isn't it oh this is Wildwood Avenue... I can only envision here's here's that concrete on... [34:10] Councilmember Justin: could you use the microphone just because people are listening thanks. [34:15] Art Arseno: our Center section is where just let's yeah let's come come to the yeah come to the yeah my assumption would be that the addition of concrete would be in the um easement not on Owl Road because owl is already paved so before the crosswalk a pedestrian could stand in Owl Street um or to the side wherever um we've elected or wherever um makes the most sense for the crosswalk to be so it wouldn't be necessarily be in the middle of Owl Road would be offset to one side of the road. [34:55] Councilmember Justin: I I think the way what's a little hard to understand is if you're offset to the one side you're going to kind of be hitting the lift station and if you're offset to the other side you're going to be running into mailboxes um so I mean and I'm just trying to understand and it seems to me like the best place to put it would be right in the middle of the road but I don't ever see that done anywhere it would seem like you would just want to like project owl across and put it right there but that's it yeah I don't know I never see that done anywhere you put a I feel like it's a difficult spot too because there's a curve it's a interesting you're turning there too yeah I mean you know yeah I mean yeah yes there are crosswalks that go across the middle of Roads well I mean but it's like it would start at Wildwood I mean it'd be like the road right so huh that's weird I I guess I've never seen that I would think you'd want to be as far north as possible because that street does curve so you'd want that signage as far forward as possible to give people a chance to stop but yeah yeah you know I you I think the the task force has considered that um that it it's a little bit of a blind Corner when you're coming east on on that road it's much better from the south yeah well we can maybe figure out the concrete pad portion a different day but I'd be happy to make the motion to um to add two new crosswalks along with the um um signage pending staff find reasonably priced signs um they're at Birch beach in Owl and at at Grotto. [36:55] Councilmember Kathy Weier: I'll second that. [37:00] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: all right um all in favor I opposed motion carries all right I'd like to have made a remark there I'm sorry Ryan I thought you maybe this is okay but um I did I said I so it's okay but I guess the remark I wanted to make because just let's is are we going to at least wait on the owl Street crosswalk until after that's the only thing I wanted to add let's just do that with the construction here of course we'll do that okay twice sounds good yep thank you task force you um and there there was something else about resolution number three... [37:25] Cora Hankins: yeah yeah resolution number three was um there was a near miss that occurred at 368 Wildwood Avenue and um we proposed the addition of a stop sign on Wildwood Avenue at 368 Wildwood Avenue there's also a stop sign already coming from the East um is that the blue dot on your map? [37:55] Art Arseno: yes mhm so going there's not a stop sign going east but going west there already is a stop sign you coming up from Lake there is not one there there's not one there and we're not proposing one there that's a hill in the winter you don't want to stop yeah no no so but there are there's stop oh you're saying coming okay I see coming the coming the opposite way so where the if you're going straight there's a stop one way but if you're going straight the other way there's no stop mhm yeah now now I'm picturing it mhm yeah no I get it yeah we we have it Art thanks okay. [38:45] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: yeah I guess I was thinking you were proposing coming up the hill and I was like no no we're not be hard no no okay all right um well uh I'd like to make a motion to propose the addition of One Stop sign on Wildwood Avenue at 368 Wildwood Avenue on on on the uh side of the road as you're traveling East on the right hand side of the road. [39:05] Councilmember Justin: uh yes all right uh may I have a second? [39:10] Councilmember Ryan: I'd like to learn more I guess on know I know I haven't heard on that one okay. [39:15] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: um all right we're so uh we don't have a second on this motion I think uh the council is asking for more information before we can before we can um uh discuss it um but but but go but go ahead Ron. [39:35] Ron Malice: can I talk a little bit about that my wife was the one that was almost hit we live at 420 Wildwood as you if you don't stop at that spot they speed around that corner and the mailboxes are right Beyond it so what ends up happening if you don't have a stop sign and they're traveling beyond the speed limit which they are um she almost got hit by the mailboxes getting her mail so well the reason of the stop sign that way you can view going around that corner and get their speed down and then start again so that was the reason that we needed that stop sign probably more so than the one to the right that goes westbound. [40:15] Councilmember Ryan: I'll make a motion to add a stop sign to the discussion at the Town Hall at the September meeting. [40:20] Councilmember Justin: I'll second that's right. [40:25] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: any discussion from Council I don't know how I feel I I understand where you're coming but yeah that's fine that gives us more time to understand like I said I mean I've been around here for five six years I've never heard this one come up as a no me neither an issue so maybe it is but well I'm on that intersection a lot and I've never really had a problem but yeah it it's a it's a area where there are um hidden driveways for one um the sighting is poor coming around that area um yeah we need to calm traffic and slow speed in that area yeah let's add it to the mix for month that's fine more time. [41:18] Councilmember Ryan: okay well Ryan has a motion to add it to the you second it? [41:21] Councilmember Justin: I second. [41:22] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: second and um okay good um well all in favor I opposed all right we'll we'll add it to the discussion um and uh if there's more information that you can bring forth that would be great um I I believe that it would be a good idea um I myself have walked and run along that area and uh you you are dodging cars that are coming too fast eastbound. [41:45] Cora Hankins: yeah that was one that Marcus Johnson also thought was a good idea so I think if we do that we're going to have to have some good signage though informing drivers because my concern right is that we have one one one uh Direction that's uncontrolled then so they'll have to be signage to say that traffic from the left or the right whatever stop sign you're on does not stop just so the drivers know that they have to yield to that to that side but yeah okay. [42:15] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: okay great thank you thank you Cora. [42:20] Cora Hankins: um resolution number four was to put up some solar powered radar speed signs um that was one of the things that in the um the traffic uh study from Minnesota said that that was one of the things that really slowed traffic was to have the um radar speed signs with the speed they were going and then the speed that was posted for the area so we were one of our res the last resolution was to say um would we be willing to put up some we would our resolution is to propose putting up some solar powered radar speed signs they are effective in reducing speed they're expensive um maybe it's something we could look at in in the in the budget for the following year um we're not really expecting it to happen right now now um any thoughts on that? [43:10] Councilmember Justin: I I wouldn't mind them um but like you said they're pretty expensive do we I mean the the one thought I I had is if we can get some grant money I wonder if there's grant money somewhere that we can use and get those. [43:25] Councilmember Kathy Weier: the other the other thing you know you mentioned the radar speed uh signs for these crosswalks have you considered the um blinking ones blinking ones that when you want to cross you press the little button and it flashes and those are really effective I find especially on on Wildwood Avenue down there in Mahtomedi like that brings that whole road to a stop and those cars are whizzing by there so um that's another thought. [43:55] Cora Hankins: uh that's excuse me that's something that we can price out um one of the considerations that we did talk about was if the speed limit's 20 miles an hour the advanced notice really shouldn't be that yeah um because that the flashing sign that you mentioned the speed limits 30 in that area which just gets reduced from 45 right um so um traffic is rolling at a pretty higher rate of speed yeah in those areas. [44:40] Councilmember Kathy Weier: yeah and Mahtomedi needs to put another one of those flashing lights at the other crosswalk at Lincoln Town. [44:45] Cora Hankins: yeah because that the speed limit's 45 there yeah yeah no good point um have you guys looked at all into how effective these are in heavily wooded areas being solar? [45:00] Art Arseno: yes um so we we don't have a firm area where we want to put these in because of the solar powered and the need for um clearance yeah yeah we need so there we are blessed with a lot of trees in our community and so it would it makes it trickier to put in solar powered and so um that is a consideration that um we're kind of leaving it open in terms of their exact locations um but um other consideration I think we might need to make is there are a flashing light um that may be very distracting to whomever has a window facing that um so that's the other concern I would have regarding that type of sign especially for traveling speed because they're going to see it every time someone goes by and and some of those some of the signs are programmable to where the it doesn't it'll it'll post the speed it won't flash it unless they're I I've seen them where if you exceed you know over the speed limit then they flash or we could even set it at you know a reasonable amount over the speed limit yeah I I've seen ones where there it's a smiley face or a frowny face sounds cute. [46:50] Councilmember Justin: I did ask Marcus Johnson to look for Grants yeah um and he said generally for smaller uh things like this there aren't grants but he said he would look and he would keep it on his mind to see if there were any grants available because I thought of that too thanks Justin. [47:05] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: yeah that's a good idea yeah I I would be inclined to say that um not have it flash light the light flash as Kathy says I I think that would be distracting if someone would say that but maybe think about doing one and finding a good spot for it and see how see how that goes you know that might be something that we could we could look at but but maybe we need to refine exactly where we want it before we approve it yeah I just it's four grand each is tough I wouldn't mind budgeting for one. [47:40] Councilmember Kathy Weier: yeah to do one and then and then see see how that goes I I like that. [47:45] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: okay all right um you had a question... [47:50] Ron Malice: Justin in regards to the cost and I talked to uh Bob Global who's a public works manager in Mahtomedi and the flashing crosswalk ones they're available in Mahtomedi has used them in fact at our border they have and for just the material uh it would be for two of them like we were proposing is $7,800 for the flashing side and that's the reason we avoided it yeah okay it makes sense to because thought I would ask conservative yeah so good question and you had also said what's the difference in a sign there's a lot um signage from the standpoint the 3M signs that have the the bits you know the the chip bits that keep them um illuminant in the evenings right there's a huge difference and I don't know what they bought before but on traffic signage it's very important that they see that stop sign so it stands out in their headlights right so we don't really want to cheat cheat on that now there is a state contract that is available um that we could buy our signs it's Newman signs this year mhm and I have their phone number in the contact uh we haven't done that I just went on the internet and found yeah what's the most reasonable sign I could get no understood and it just it seems seems pricey so it does um I don't like the price either and and I'm not saying that that price isn't Justified or isn't the price we have to pay it's just let's look around a little bit just see something a little comparable quality but little little cheaper right. [49:15] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: all right well I'd like to make a motion that um that the council approve uh the purchase of one a solar powered radar speed sign for Birchwood. [49:25] Councilmember Justin: I have a second for this year? [49:30] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: no no to to budget for it for next year throw in the budget just add it in the budget discussion in the budget we don't need a motion we don't need a motion right now okay um well thank you and we'll we we can uh take take this under consideration and then add it into the budget. [49:45] Councilmember Justin: one question for the group have you guys looked I mean some of this stuff um it looks like you know while have you have you looked into you know White Pine and uh Hall Avenue I know that's one issue we've always had problems with no one stops at that stop sign I literally took a cell phone video one time when we had that uh the the construction traffic and I think I took my the video was like 2 minutes long and I think one car out of like 30 actually stopped at the stop sign everyone else there was there was cars that literally blew right through it and didn't even pump the brakes there was I mean have you guys looked into anything on that? [50:42] Ron Malice: like during our open forum and public open forum when the Washington County Sheriff was here we expressed concern about that stop sign and the stop sign at J yeah um and the inability of drivers to come to a complete stop and they they informed us that they would increase their patrols. [51:15] Councilmember Justin: yeah they don't they don't like sorry I mean like we like time and time again I we've gone to them and say hey this is a huge problem you guys need to deal with it I literally showed them the video and they do nothing. [51:30] Ron Malice: the solutions the solutions of that problem is not palatable by most people and that would be to create a speed table yeah not a speed bump a speed table you would raise the pavement for an area of about 10 to 15 feet and then you lower it back down and it would force people to slow down and or to stop before they come to that it would be essentially a raised crosswalk from from White Pine onto the grotto staircase why do you think people wouldn't like that it's harder to snowplow but than well that be besides that I've heard speed tables actually people don't mind them as much as speed bumps or humps. [52:20] Councilmember Kathy Weier: can I just ask how is it to if if the bike trail would were to go over a speed Trail how how many times would I have to go over before my tires like suffered I guess is how is it for bikes with speed table? [52:35] Ron Malice: I'm not exactly sure because I've just never not sure I've ever seen T so they're not real it's not like abrupt not like a bump it's it's like it's very it's is it an angle that goes up oh okay all right then it's just like a jump yeah you okay yeah yeah yeah and you you should see some of them um you know the jump where the car has the suspension comes back down on the other side of them yeah yeah this be I me you could these are very like I've got a picture of them up right now these are very like um very gentle you know it's just kind of like this and and the bike should be stopping I think well I mean stopping at stop signs is a problem there like you guys said it's at J it's right here it happens all throughout I think possibly the 20 mile per hour balance might um help with some of that and and tweaking the rules just a little bit on the edges I think will help um and then it it does we just have to continue to be on the sheriff to enforce the rules yeah um it's it's constant um and I would say it's been disappointing for for probably many years that they don't um as much as we give to the Sheriff's Office above and beyond um what the city of birchwood's role is within the county contract um it's been disappointing we don't get that coverage just for the enforcement of our rules. [53:50] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: actually we did have enforcement of the rules when we had everybody's favorite uh halfway or one way in town I would say we would have had it then but we have not outside of that we haven't had the coverage I think that's that's um due to us... [54:15] Cora Hankins: one of the things that it says in the in the um the traffic uh document there is that the raised um bumps like Art was talking about are very effective it's slowing speeds very effective. [54:30] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: right thank you all for your work right oh yeah you were you were a great great task force thank you so much and and we have just a little bit more to do you so so we're going to do a town we're going to do a town hall at the September meeting and discuss do you need us to be here? [54:55] Cora Hankins: yes it'd be good that'd be great yeah and then and then um uh also come up with a policy statement per statute yes I will I will work on that with the communities. [55:10] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: great all right right thank you so much thank you so much thank you yeah and Art and and uh Ron thank you so much also for volunteering the the the work and cost of those things yeah thanks Margaret for your running the thing or helping liaisoning the thing so well they they made it a pleasure yeah all right all right thank you thanks all. [55:35] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: we have an extra person here do we want to see if we can yeah I was can the person to find out if they're here for the budget meeting oh oh uh hi are I I see two people in the audience are you here for a specific part of our meeting or just to observe? okay great well welcome we're happy are you required to observe for something? oh your Merit badge oh great great uh wonderful picked an exciting one you did yeah we're having a budget discussion next and so so uh be prepared would Council like to have a short break to get a a drink of water before we start? [56:15] Councilmember Ryan: we recommend a variance for next time um... [56:20] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: Chris we're going to take a five minute break thank you. [56:39] [Music] [57:27] [Music] [59:15] [Music] [59:46] [Music] [1:00:39] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: welcome back everybody um uh we are going to take our the proceedings just a little bit out of order right now um uh we're going to uh discuss the additional item that Justin brought up discussion to 425 Lake Avenue since we have Ben Wikstrom our planner here and we'd like his input. all right yeah so Ben we we had um I don't know if you watched the discussion on 425 Lake but we had a number of issues with respect to um them needing additional variances which weren't called out by the city staff including yourself um we just kind of wanted to address that because obviously you know when an applicant comes up and you know the council is finding variance applications that they need um you know it's a problem and you know now they have to go back down to the Planning Commission and then come back up for us um there needs to be more notice and other things mailed out um so just kind of wondering um you know to kind of hear what what your thoughts are on that and um how we can improve going forward. [1:01:45] Ben Wikstrom: yep thank you mayor council good evening um yeah that one as you know got a little convoluted the application changed a little bit uh before the Planning Commission meeting and then after based on some of their comments um but the the need for more variances um I did watch the meeting uh and then I just read the minutes again to to get a little more uh concise version of the comments there uh so there was a few of them in the letter that was sent to Carson outlined that might be necessary in addition to what was ultimately granted at your last meeting um one of them was about uh the stairs and the landing uh or the landing in an interval that you can have them at I it's my understanding from the plans and from what I saw at the site or the Aerials that they're only replacing One landing so I don't think that one applies I might be mistaken but... [1:03:30] Councilmember Justin: why don't we know whether or not that applies? [1:03:32] Ben Wikstrom: I think it doesn't I I I'm just addressing what was in the letter to my my point of that is right is shouldn't their plans be complete enough that we know right away that okay then it doesn't apply? I I don't know why it was in that letter is what I'm saying okay all right um the the variance for uh well there was a oh that's not a variance the variance for the impervious surface that's one I I can understand that uh Justin you know far more about that than I do um and the intent of that ordinance when that application started it was just a retaining wall so a 12 inch top of wall mhm um there's a lot of people that do retaining walls around here not by the lake but I don't check they're impervious because it's a 12 inch top of retaining wall block maybe I should be doing that I don't know um or if some someone called recently and said I'm putting in a fire pit we're going to have some boulders to sit on do I have to consider that as impervious? I don't know it seems we're getting away from the intent of that ordinance another community that I consult to has an exception in their ordinance that says sidewalks Less Than 3 feet wide don't count toward impervious surface because it doesn't materially change drainage patterns or unfilter water into the lake so I don't if we want to we can ask for that calculation based on their new Boulder wall design or we could have for the 12 inch wide wall uh I just wasn't thinking that that was part of the variance they needed but uh I think when I had a conversation with Ryan he said if he wants to cover if Carson the applicant wants to cover his bases he should apply for that one it's fine with me I I don't disagree with that it's as long as he's going back anyway uh that's fine but I I do need some clarification if we're always counting Boulders or retaining walls okay. [1:05:30] Councilmember Justin: okay I mean traditionally we have always counted basically we've counted every single square foot of of of wall surface and I as far as I'm aware from looking at variances but not generally permit applications but like on Berkeley's which was the most recent retaining wall that was similar to this um all the retaining wall tops were calculated on that and so I think one thing we're kind of struggling with here is if we're going to stop calculating um retaining wall surfaces that is actually a pretty significant change in some areas um and I think we just need to we need to make sure that's what we're doing with respect to sidewalks I looked around a little bit and Mahtomedi pretty clearly calculate sidewalks. [1:06:50] Ben Wikstrom: mhm yeah I think Ben's asking for direction I'm I'm not saying you shouldn't calculate that I'm saying what does the council want to do for someone who asks for someone who comes in for a zoning permit for a retaining wall if it's you know not Material you know it's not a setback issue it's nothing it's a 10 foot wall 10 foot long wall just to help out some erosion on their property um we haven't asked for a survey to calculate their impervious surface on that lot. [1:07:30] Councilmember Justin: we have though typically we have on Berkeley's the last variance we definitely asked for there isn't a variance there's just yeah there's that was a variance though right I see if there's saying why would we treat why would we treat permits any different than variances? I mean I get that maybe if somebody's doing something that's kind of minimal you know doing a little bit the only thing you're doing is a retaining wall you don't want to run up you know thousands of... [1:08:10] Ben Wikstrom: that's I think that's kind of the intent of the zoning permit right we want to know what you're doing but we're not going to make you we're not going to you know squint it you more than one way maybe there's a compromise position here that that I hate to suggest changing the code because that was such a runaround with the DNR but I wonder if we could count some of it as impervious but not all I don't know yeah I mean because right now according to my read of the code it is impervious like that's that's my reading of the of the code yeah I don't I don't disagree that definitionally I guess if that's a word yeah you can't just discount it... [1:08:55] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: but um well it's part of a larger discussion here do do you have do you have any other communities that take kind of a middle approach like you're saying that some committee communities completely ignore it as impervious other communities count it? [1:09:10] Ben Wikstrom: I I'd have to look in detail the one I'm most familiar with I consulted to Big Lake for about five years and they have big lake there they're very concerned and they have a lot of small lots and they're impervious code was anything any sidewalks Less Than 3 feet wide we don't count it's not going to change the pattern of drainage or what's filtered um there are others that make exceptions for landscape projects I don't know if you'd consider a land a retaining wall a landscape project um in our ordinance the 4 foot height requirement that they had to get a variance for once it exceeded that that's actually in our fences ordinance not in anything separate about retaining walls and grading mhm um I mean I guess in this particular case though too I was concerned because they are at such a high impervious surface level of the lot to begin with and then adding this on I mean it's it's quite a bit you know it's I mean 2% but when you're at like what was it were 30% already and then you add the 2% 30.7 you know it's like it starts to become a big deal right like whereas if they were at 20% and just added a couple of percent well all right you know I I I also don't know what that calculation is or how it's done for a boulder wall or a landscape project with Boulders because there is filtration between the Rocks it's not runoff so to speak so I don't know um but as far as them applying for more variances I'm he I know they're just fine and we would be just fine I think adding that yeah for now anyway I think and and I think the the way to handle this is is for us to take a look at the ordinance separately I think and just see do we need to tweak this as a result of like our experiences with this do we want to tweak this for for the impervious surface but I think for now just you know read it strictly I guess is what I would suggest. [1:10:45] Councilmember Justin: okay the the two others were about uh 16 and a half foot setback uh buffer strip or something like that and then no grading or um alterations or something within 20 feet of the ordinary high water line. [1:11:05] Ben Wikstrom: the the main part of their wall is 15 and a half I'm sure they could move it back to 16 but um in the minutes and in the meeting you had discussed that section near the stairs so I agree that that warrants another variance um the reason I didn't call it out the first time is similar to like in our conditional use permit ordinance where it says you don't need a separate land disturbance activity permit if you get a CUP or you don't need a zoning permit if you get a CUP and those kind of trade-offs in my view when you're getting an ordinary high water line setback variance you're considering all of those things. [1:11:45] Councilmember Justin: one of the one of the issues here I think we don't do approval resolutions and it would be good to have conditions saying pursuant to this part of the code anything left between this wall and the lake you're going to have to buffer with a you know native plantings or whatever that requirement is or of course we're allowing land disturbance within 20 feet of the shore because we're approving a variance for a wall 15 and 1/2 feet from the ordinary high water... [1:12:15] Ben Wikstrom: I I pretty strongly agree with you that it would be very good for us to start doing variance resolutions and we used to do that um I I do want to say it sounds like help me understand but it almost sounds like what you're saying is that we're granting variances for projects rather than dissections of code and so when somebody comes in with a project we're kind of saying as long as we Grant a variance to one thing we're granting a variance for the whole project is that kind of what you're saying? more or less I mean I think that section of the code about land disturbance activity spells out you can't do any grading within 20 feet of the ordinary high water line he's asking for a variance to allow a wall 15 and 1/2 feet from the ordinary high water line so I guess it just follows that this variance sure covers all of these sections that are implied to be affecting a project such as this. [1:12:55] Councilmember Justin: I'm not saying we should just look the other way and say yeah no no you don't need you don't need this and this and this because we made him do the height and the setback which are clearly spelled out in the code yeah I mean I guess part of it is that's like on Berkeley's when they did their wall they applied for that setback to the 20 feet in addition to the OHWL setback there and so I think we're just... and so that's an interesting change the I guess I have to say I kind of disagree with you on that because I think one of the things that we look at when we do variances is what the intent of the code is and sometimes there's a different intent when we're looking at things that are um there's a different intent for different sections of code even though they might prevent the same thing sometimes... [1:13:50] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: you're saying just just to be on the safe side Ryan um we want to make sure that we are acknowledging each variance that we need even though sometimes in this Case I agree with you Ben in this case you know they they overlap completely right right but but just as a best practices thing is that? [1:14:15] Councilmember Ryan: I guess well I think that was my point it's a great it's I don't necessarily disagree with that but I do think that when we see the litigious nature of the zoning in this thing it would be pretty easy for somebody to come in and say well you missed this variance and you didn't apply the intent and somebody built anyway and maybe that wouldn't happen but I I think that getting all the variances laid out is important... [1:14:55] Councilmember Justin: I maybe it's not but like I I think the other what was the other one there um it was the there was the 20 feet there was the repairi and buffer the other thing that I would say is the reason I appreciate having them listed out is because it's really nice when we can add conditions onto variances and use the intent to those variances to add conditions to them and if the variance isn't there then adding a condition that um allows us to get to the intent of the variance I think helps a little more so I agree and I and I liked what you said before about the conditions and stuff like that and if you feel that there are some conditions that would be beneficial to granting the variance please include them in your report like I I would love to see that if you say like listen you know they're over their impervious surface so maybe they should have to dedicate some of this you know in accordance with say um our impervious surface code right like where you have to have the vegetative strip buffer and all that other stuff I mean please please bring that to our attention. [1:15:45] Ben Wikstrom: yeah I think it's worthwhile I mean much of it goes without saying because when they come with their building permit and there's the inspections that's going to have to happen but I think it's good to reiterate especially in the case of an application yeah um should we go right into uh to the uh first reading of the ordinance for variance application criteria are we at that stage or do you have more you'd like to share Ben? [1:16:15] Ben Wikstrom: a couple other things mayor thank you yeah please um there was one during the meeting there was a discussion about the lot combination requirement okay um I don't think they have a problem doing it I think they're probably in process now I don't I don't disagree that it's good practice to make people do that I just don't know that that interpretation of the statute requires them to do that because that statute reads for the purposes of sale or development non-conforming riparian lot should be combined is this development a building permit or a variance for a retaining wall? I don't know that um i'had asked Alan that a while ago I don't I don't know that I necessarily got a clear answer didn't push for it but um that is one thing that I think we made them do and I think it's good to do in practice if there's a or or a sliver of a lot or something that was for some other reason we probably should make them combine I just don't know that as was stated in the meeting that it would be required. [1:17:15] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: okay but they agreed to it so that's good. [1:17:18] Councilmember Ryan: so you're you would Define development as only for example building a single family home on... you would basically as changing the developed nature of the property somewhat? [1:17:30] Ben Wikstrom: that's what I would think I don't know that but is there a definition in the state statute? I didn't pretty vague what I read I mean I kind of agree with that it seems to me like to be on the safe side you might want to do that but I also don't see anybody enforcing it unless you actually are developing something that wasn't developed before so um and then there was one other thing that I can't remember and I don't have in my notes here see I have oh uh so originally the variance application came forward um and he had said the Carson I think as the applicant had said I need to come to you to see if you're going to allow this basically was his wording and that may have been yeah and that's before he goes to the other boards that he needs right and I think we're saying you need to get approval from them before you come to us and either way it's okay you're going to have to get all of those approvals anyway um but for the variance application if we're if he's wondering if he's going to be able to build this in this location and we're asking him for you know structural drawings and Rain garden design and all that it seems that that's overstepping what is Germane to the variance application not in all cases um in some you know some of the design elements speak to the character of the neighborhood which is sort of the subjective part of a variance application so that's certainly well within reason to ask for but we were asking for structural calculations and we're asking at one point I don't think they followed up or we didn't make them follow up with the actual design of what plants are going in the rain Garden or something like that but it seems that that's getting past the point of answering whether or not we're going to give you the setback for a distance. [1:19:15] Councilmember Ryan: Ryan you're shaking your head a little bit there is it just the character of the neighborhood you're want you're... [1:19:20] Councilmember Justin: no the the the I I asked the questions about the rain garden and specifically um my focus was on whether or not and how much rain water runoff it would handle because um part of what they seem it seemed like the design of that particular um project was that basically they would that was answering one of the neighbors concerns was where that gutter all that gutter stuff was was going into right and if you know anyone can just put rain Garden on their plan and say plant one plant there and say there is a rain Garden right so what I was trying to assess was whether they had properly engineered it to handle the runoff that would be expected from the gutters that they would be diverting that runoff into and they had no plants I like the way you put that I like the way you put that though yeah I think we if I remember some the conversation a little bit we got a little micromanag-y on what type of plants and how long the root systems were and yeah that's not we shouldn't be it's not it isn't Germaine to the the issue in front of us... [1:20:40] Councilmember Justin: it is germane because the thing is is if they have other alternatives um that don't involve a variance that comes into play we and in this case they had alternatives which would be native plants and grasses and I know this because I have a hill on my Lake Shore that is way steeper and bigger than theirs and I have no erosion because I have native plants and grasses well I wouldn't say native it's whatever grew there right but that is I don't have problems yeah right and if you looked at their pictures they not only had no plants there they had bare dirt but they had Landscaping Fabrics which is going to limit the growth of the roots yeah and that was my point is that have you guys looked at these other things I wanted to ask them if they had looked at other things at least so I mean that well yeah we can always ask them if you looked at a b c d on down through the alphabet there's always another option I guess you can ask about but um we only have so many hours in the day. [1:22:15] Councilmember Justin: yeah I agree with that Justin for are you meeting the intent of the ordinance and the intent of the comp plan there may be other methods and that's worth exploring yeah it seems like some of these things I don't know I don't know who asked at the Planning Commission meeting the first time around I think it was the structural calculations for the wall I I don't know what bearing that has on where it's going well or if we're going to allow it at a certain... [1:22:45] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: let's let's that the the problem was that the applicant had come in with a 4 foot wall yep into the first hearing and somebody said you have an 8 foot slope um how are you going to make a a 4 foot wall work and then all of a sudden without a reapplication for a variance we got a plan that went from one variance needed to having like five variances needed and I mean that um seemed like there was a real problem there with um you know with the way and and let me just make a little suggestion here is when applicants are coming in I know you you real hesitant to say I'm going to mark this is incomplete because you don't know what the Planning Commission is going to say let me just make a suggestion and I told the Planning Commission I would do this is that I think in this case it would have worked really well for Carson and and the homeowner or whatever to have just kind of had a chat with the Planning Commission and kind of you know work through this a little bit concept review a concept review and the Planning Commission has offered and I think that would would just have been a... [1:23:45] Ben Wikstrom: yeah and you know and and that's a good question and we should look into that but I I just I'd like to make sure that we're or maybe we just we've looked at all not a bad idea just throw it out there everything around the engineering I believe that Becky did double check on that and we can use the Rice Creek okay okay so but I mean it might be worth just double yeah it it wouldn't hurt to competitively bid it I guess so it's okay. [1:23:55] Councilmember Justin: I'm sorry this has been a little bit of a frustrating variance for I'm sure I think a lot of people including you and I just I think that pushing people into that review with the Planning Commission would be super helpful so I would suggest perhaps adding that in your reading here tonight yeah as if deemed necessary by doesn't have to say planner whatever City staff concept review is highly encouraged or something like that. [1:24:20] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: I we could put that right in right at the top application couldn't we? [1:24:25] Councilmember Justin: yeah and then and then if they really want to submit an application like I really like that idea if they really want to submit an application they can sorry this is a little longer than we thought no so but my my only concern right on that is that they have we have 60 days yep right so there would have to be some language or some other understanding that if they are going to the Planning Commission to get a sort of advisory opinion from them that they then wave that 60 days prior to application prior to the variance application yep right which is fine as long as it's fire n out of 10 of them are saying I'm in a hurry yeah that's my point is like we don't want to like get in because we've been in situations where we've been 59 days and we still have you know so well I think it's the 60-day rule is it's not expected anymore that you meet it because you go to a lot of cities and by day number with your completeness completeness letter you get a notice that it's being extended we don't want to do that we don't want to get in that practice we've been we've been threatened before because somebody came here the day their variance was being heard and said ah the 60 days ran I don't even need to be here I'm I win you lose give me my variance right and so you know we we do have to mind that because and for here you know it's more difficult here because you have one meeting a month each body right so that 60-day rule is tough to hit a lot of times but and I agree anyway and the last thing on that meeting um so the Planning Commission is the public hearing and I noticed a lot of public comment at the city council meeting is that just is that standard and is it just courtesy because they showed up at that one is that okay should I always direct people go to the public hearing if they well ask question we' held a public hearing and normally we do just kind of let people talk if they want but we held one because we were worried that there were missing um applications and to me in this case like the Wall height yeah was 8 and that was a clearly even if you kind of accept the reasoning that if that you only need to okay the setback from the lake um it's hard to go from well that also okays a seven or eight foot Wall height right and I think we were holding a public hearing there in part to make sure that at the council level you hel held that just to make sure there was a just to make sure that you know yeah although we do just neighbors neighbors could come and weigh in and the public could weigh in we we do just kind of let Neighbors come say things because we just want to let everybody have their chance to nothing wrong with that some people just ask me am I going to be able to comment at the council meeting and I kind of was like yeah usually we'll let them yeah we'd like to give um we'd like to hear from our citizens so yep and part of the uh you know tacking on an extra variance or not I agree the wall the height is different from the setback some of the buffer things like that in in some cases it's a matter of did you did you publish appropriately we didn't list out oh you're going to need a native plantings at a 16 and a half or 16 and a half foot buffer strip but is that you know publishing that rather than just saying at the meeting you know you also need a variance for this sort of like a previous application I think we had well you're also adding on to a non-conforming structure should we be granting a variance I mean the publishing the publishing is one thing but that's a little separate from the determination of what variances are actually needed yep the the Wall height there was yes the Wall height I totally agree with you I I'm saying it like in this case if we had published for the buffer strip and it ended up being well you also have this no land disturbance within 20 feet should we put that in the language kind of it's kind of moot when we don't do the approval resolutions but that also makes it harder to just you know tack on what variances are needed so I think the pre-application meeting or concept discussion is a good idea um you know Carson's email to me and to Alan said it's you guys's job to tell me what variances I need which is which is wrong too it's not it's car's job and if an applicant wants to tell you that I know what you I know what you're saying you're like listen I'm supposed to be helping people and whatnot but also you know Carson's Carson's a contractor they know they should know this stuff right so yeah although to know this stuff yes although I I I do think you know as a city we'd like to make things transparent and easy for people to understand in our code I got it yeah yep okay I think with a lot of variances there are eight eight code sections you can pick out and say you're not quite meeting this or something like that this is a a not a good example because these are pretty clear-cut and I don't disagree with you that more are needed we we do get into I I mean I get the ambiguity I can appreciate that so so in this case Ryan you and I talked a little bit about him reapplying he's he knows he's going to need to let's say it's for those three things we talked about um is that does that necessarily require three separate variance applications I think by our ordinance language we can lump them all in together but list each section and then the fees I would we've never charged a separate fee you get it's basically an all you can variance buffet for one fee Ryan you had said perhaps we wave this one the second time around yeah and I mean I guess I didn't feel like I felt like there was enough of a m mixup on this I wanted to check with Alan and just I thought it was just good to ask the council but it just seemed to me like waving his fee or not asking him this an amended application even if we publish it again was more reasonable than I don't know what other people think I guess I wasn't interested in I'll make the motion to wave the fees on that second are we allow I just wanted is that I know we've had trouble doing that before are we allowed to wave should we just we've done that in the past all right I second it um all in favor I opposed motion carries thank you I think it just gives a little good faith effort you know I mean I agree yeah I think that I think Carson just needs another swing of things here so okay I've been in touch with him and I will follow up tomorrow with him okay and if he does want to talk to the Planning Commission like let's work that so okay sounds good thanks Ben all right well let's move on then to um e first reading of ordinance 202 24801 variance application criteria and I think Ryan you've got some background to give us on this yeah so first let me thank um Mike Kramer from the the Planning Commission he gave me some nice feedback on this ü and the Planning Commission in general went through this in July and this was um a couple of updates from me but mostly just refining a little bit and clarifying what I think the Planning Commission really wants um to look at an application and um you know I added in here some things about um they they really like scale on drawings and I can understand that um I added in a little bit about marking variances as complete within 14 days um and I just kind of sketched out pretty clearly what the Planning Commission wanted to see and I know it's hard to do this um with this document so I said if if there's an omitted item on and omitted if we're going to Omit items and maybe we do that then let's just put a little note on why we did that so um and hopefully that's not too burdensome maybe we even just kind of ask the applicant to do that do you have thoughts on that on that b because the Planning Commission really seemed to like this um just if you have some thoughts that's okay too well thanks Ryan um yeah did I read though that it's up to them to describe why they don't need to submit it is that ü rather than us saying it says it shall include an explanation of why each omitted item is unnecessary and in my view if an applicant omits an item and you want to put in an an explanation of why and just move on with it that's fine if the applicant wants to Omit half the application and fill that out themselves that's fine too okay so just for the sake of the commission and the council here's why this is that's my view but like it's kind of intentionally just if there's something omitted just give a not give a little reason if it's obvious it won't be a problem anyway so so this particular ü are you talking about this sentence that says City Zoning staff shall mark an application complete only if it includes the following items or shall include an explanation of why each admitted item is unnecessary so who's adding the explanation of why each that that's the applicant right yeah that's what I'm so the way it reads though is that City staff includes it as should we ask that that is the applicant that does that yes or the shall include so I would say I I actually think that what we need to think about for this is that the application the applicant can include say why this isn't necessary but I think it's up to City staff to determine ultimately what is and what is not necessary okay and I wouldn't condition acceptance on saying well you can submit whatever you want and then tell us why it's unnecessary and we're going to consider it complete I guess you know what I mean I I can I'll reward this a little bit I think I can make it make this a little better but that's a a minor change I think so y I'll go ahead Ben thank you ü under C Ryan ü draw draw should be drawn um plan drawn to scale yeah okay and then the the I know this is very similar to what we have and I think this is a good document here um you're reading it like I read stuff and H so H is the one where evidence demonstrating compliance with regulations of other governmental units so ü demonstrating compliance does that H there's two H's oh is there oh the last H that's another thing that needs a little up here yeah evidence demonstrating compliance with regulations of other governmental units so that goes back to our last discussion about 4 25 Lake do we need them to have that approval before they come to us is it a case-by-case thing or do we just need to so is it does that just Rice Creek sometimes ü Whitebear Lake Conservation District because Rice Creek actually one of the board of managers um called me and they actually don't have authority to regulate anything because he he found it out basically because we've regulated it they are they are done so they they only come in when like that's that's his understanding that's how I read the the law too so they probably don't even need Rice Creek to do anything they don't even have to apply to Rice Creek Rice Creek would like them to believe they do so we the LGU or whatever ü well so so he's bringing it up they're working through their own processes but based on my reading in the statute I don't think they have any authority to regulate H okay um but that's neither here or there for now we just kind of wait on that um but yeah they should have it um before they apply to us see I didn't actually change this from the previous section and I it's worth a discussion I think like the DNR and Conservation District only care about things below the OHWL yeah and so it just seems to me like we can just say in those cases that those government units don't have applicable regulations because it's above the OHWL though it did look to me like there was some question about oh the r thing I don't know like the way this is the way this is worded is that basically just to give people examples of some government organizations that might have some regulations that impact their project the onus is on them because we're not experts in DNR law we're not experts in that stuff and so you know they basically um have the onus to to say yep I checked with Rice Creek and they're fine with it or checked with the DNR and they're fine with it I I just didn't know if there were you know meeting cycles that these applicants have to go through and and it then it become becomes a month months long process you know Carson's point was well you guys have to tell me if I'm even allowed to build it before I start going to these other which is a valid point I just don't know how many cases that comes up in or if like Ryan's saying it's only if it's below the water I think that if what Justin is saying is correct about Rice Creek yeah um that we don't need to really care about Rice Creek we don't need to care about the DNR for anything above the OHWL and I think just my my opinion is almost let's just use our best judgment on this what do you think and just say if it does seem like anything applicable yeah it just use your best judgment if you think something's applicable bring it up to them say Hey you need you need to contact this group and then once you get a permit from them well Market is complete the problem here right I think you're running into is this case where they want to know that their project is good before they invest in the project and designs and things like that but we can't tell them if it's good until they do that yeah right and so it's like as a decision maker I mean I can't you a lot of times I can't see I mean the their first plan he submitted was literally a survey with a line drawn I'm like I don't know what that is right we'll just start charging a permit fee and then we'll also charge a blessing fee yeah so I mean to the extent that there has to be a risk taken it's got to be on the applicant side yeah I understand I I guess where I'm going this is not quite as applicable because we're talking about water stuff but um in another city that I work for someone applied for a side yard setback variance showing on a line drawn a survey we'd like something here they didn't go through the design because it's expected that they're going to have to meet architectural requirements and all of that stuff which is separate it's a building permit review and in and in the case of some things like this if we do ultimately do resolutions that helps because we can say please please do resolutions you have to get these approvals before we issue your building permit yeah please do resolutions so I mean unless somebody wants to disagree with me but don't know how that would be great I don't know how the resolution how does that work is it statutorily or what? you have to record it at Washington County or you can just is it just recordkeeping here we're doing a resolution putting still has to be recorded the variance itself has to be recorded with the proper... gred but I don't think it I don't think it's any different than a motion with a lot of whereases yep right okay I I have no problem I write write those all the time okay Ryan um oh go ahead I'm sorry no that's it okay the county is the one who gets picky about how they are formatted but once we figure out one or two of them I think it'd be fine so for 8-H I can like um my suggestion is to add that not for each for each section of the code they should have to write or provide um a reason like a practical difficulty like what they're practical difficulty is that should be what section 30-440 says is that says you have to lay out your and it's unfortunately it's not on the page here but a demonstration that each Criterion set forth and 30-4-4-0 is met okay the first H yes H-1 maybe let's just put including the including including the Practical difficulty because it seems like that's being missed not that anyone that's filling out the variance application is actually reading this but I think that's a good idea next meeting I'm going to throw in a resolution asking that we redo our variance application to make it consistent with this so yeah okay okay I have no other comments looks good Ben do you have is it okay thank you so much for thank you for your advice that went on Long sorry oh that's okay want to make sure we get it right thank you thanks Ben yeah Y and thank thank you Ryan for coming up commission and coming up with this yeah I'm I'm talking oh I'm sorry and then and then I think um ü um we will we will um ü we have we ü we have done a first reading of the ordinance well I'll move to adopt ordinance pass ordinance 2024 801 as a first reading all right I second it all in favor I opposed motion carries all right um we need a motion to order the second reading and public hearing may I have a motion I'll move Justin all right ü may I have a second I'll second Ryan all in favor I I opposed motion carries all right all right well then um we're we're we're finally to our budget thank you Marsha and we have we have to publish this one too so hey Chris if you can come help put that back on the screen now that'd be helpful perfect I don't have to squint see popcorn would be great right now yeah I would be um is it possible to zoom in just a little bit on the screen Chris? yeah that's much better and I can just look up there so you guys can lose my place for me instead of me losing it myself. [1:43:45] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: well I'm not sure how you guys would like to go about walking through this if you'd like to go line by line or... [1:43:53] Councilmember Justin: Marsha last last time we did go line by line um and it's the will of the council I mean are people okay with going through line by line? some some won't have much discussion um some Others May. [1:44:10] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: I'm I'm okay either way I mean since this like I mean I wanted to go line through line line by line through the last one because it was such a big rise like this is reasonable... [1:44:20] Councilmember Ryan: I think I think if you identify anything that would stand out that would probably just be easiest enough that any large changes up or down okay. [1:44:30] Marsha Olson: and and then people can can introduce questions on on ones that concern them okay yeah so yeah go ahead Marsha. [1:44:38] Marsha Olson: so in the past the budget has just been put together with the levy items can you speak into the mic sorry sorry yeah than um one thing you guys will know about me I don't like microphones at all sorry you may have to keep telling me um so I put this together to kind of there thank you to kind of mimic what would come out of a CTAS report so ultimately at the end we can put it in CTAS and anytime you guys have questions about the budget or it can become part of the treasures packet you'd every month you could without checking two different sources it just be right at your fingertips so some of the things that we put in that like we hadn't done before is like the $90,000 for building permits um because that'll come off the levy the L item but Jack's the stuff that we're paying to Jack comes off the bottom so yeah yeah um just for some context it used to be that that was considered non-levy so we didn't talk about either the intake or the out go on those because they balance out but ü for transparency's sake it seems as though we should have both sides of the equation listed here and then um certain items will be levied that don't balance out like for instance Engineers fees and in certain T certain cases planers fees and others yeah correct. [1:46:00] Marsha Olson: okay all right so some of the some of the bigger things are um on line with ü with the state um intergovernmental revenues like letter D that is um that includes your gas tax and it's also including the EPA Federal grant that we're getting for the lift station and the Rice Creek Watershed district ü $100,000 from there which can be used um on the lift station upgrades which will come out at the bottom at the very bottom so there'll be a net of like $20,000 that we have to that the city will have to pay for. [1:46:50] Councilmember Justin: and gas tax that's the just to clarify that's that's the money from the state now that we're getting for the roads correct yeah great yeah it's just a one-time thing is that correct once a year once a year now we got it once a year small towns it used to be only for counties but they changed it now to yeah so so what is the bulk of that I guess 60? [1:47:15] Marsha Olson: the gas tax we're estimating at 23,000 oh just based on based on some of the past so 21 was right around 22,000 um 22 nothing was actually booked so that 22 that 37 includes both so just increased it a little bit for some inflation so 23 yeah it used to be very irregular where it would be every couple of years they'd throw some money down to the cities but now they changed the law so it's every year City gets... [1:47:42] Councilmember Justin: is there any requirement that we use that can we use it for anything or does it have to be specifically to roads or maybe you just don't know? [1:47:50] Marsha Olson: um I don't believe there's a requirement and what you have to use it for it used to be a huge City party okay yes I think it used to you used to have to have have so much of your budget going into Road and Bridge and then so much of your budget going into the general fund in order to get it in order to get aid but they have lifted that many many years ago that was before my time I think um so interest earnings just a little bit further 48,000 um I decreased that just a little bit because it seems that interest rates are going down not a ton but they're they're on the decline row 30,000 those are going to be come in and then you'll see down below the escrow dollars that are coming out um and so that would bring that' bring the total general fund receipts to 1,371,839 unless you have some glowing changes during that so the total revenue Levy and non-levy is that what that amount is yes that is includes both okay mhm yeah the levy is the very top box at that 583,000. [1:49:05] Councilmember Justin: wonder if we should scroll ü it's good enough are you sure okay are you okay to go on to disbursements? [1:49:20] Marsha Olson: sure okay so um the printing and binding $33,000 um we have our high in 2023 but the actual this year has been pretty low so just kind of brought it down just a little bit kept it at the same as the budget for this year um the mayor and city council wages and salaries that includes everybody and assuming that everybody will take their wage um the deputy the clerk Deputy Clerk and Treasurer was um myself at 10 hours a month and then Becky and um therese at an increase of 4% because I think that's what you increased them for 4% of we we I mean we had last year yeah are we so you're are we proposing an increase for next year in salaries? [1:50:35] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: we're we're budgeting just in the initial budgeting stage we have not decided anything yet right. [1:50:40] Marsha Olson: so I stuck is it left flat then no it contemplates a 4% increase but we can either do that or not and that's for all three administrative employees no that was just for Becky and therese because I will only have been here a short time by then okay um the the state tax and the PERA just kind of go you know as a result of the wages um election next year the only thing we should have is to have to pay that County fee for the election equipment maintenance the county no election fee exactly um the assessors kept pretty flat at 6,700 legal um legal went to 20,000 I think because 2023 was high so we just threw a few more dollars in there for 25 as well um and then the 3500 is the part that would be charged back to ü residents that would come in through the escrow um and then Personnel Administration Printing and binding that is $500 um in hopes that we're not looking for new people that we stay stable ü grants 2100 that is for the Northeast Youth and Family Services and ü ... [1:52:10] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: and Marsha could we could you make a little notation um about that um just so that when people look at the budget they know what it is for. [1:52:18] Marsha Olson: thank you y just on the sheet y thank you um and then the next thing is um Planning and Zoning went up to 22500 um but I did go go through and break broke everything out in the previous years um so I that's the number I came up with I can't remember what it was per month I'd have to go look well Ben Wikstrom is ü ... [1:52:50] Councilmember Ryan: Ben is he on a retainer he's a flat fee he a flat fee yeah does anyone know? [1:52:55] Marsha Olson: it is 16 it should be whatever our actual is divided by the number of months trying to remember well and that actually because our actual through July 9th which would only be the 6 months is 112 so yeah that would be pretty 1,600 a month so 192 a year. [1:53:15] Councilmember Justin: the which which raises the thing I mean I was under the oppression we were going to start charging some of this back to homeowners yeah and we and we are and yeah just we just started it so there should be something on the backend yeah there should be on something on the other side that I didn't see on the Revenue side okay I I wasn't seeing that do we know I think we know Margaret what we're doing yeah I mean I think what we we did was we said that you know everyone gets kind of a a consultation with Ben Wikstrom all residents should um but once you know you've had your initial consultation of you know a half hour then he'll start charging um for advice and and so ü it's it's you know just he's just started doing it um I don't think we really have history so we'd just be guessing at this stage of the game yeah we want to leave it as is or a little bit off of it I think we would because I think we will now that we have started to charge I think we will be getting some revenues in from that. [1:54:15] Councilmember Justin: how much do you think do you I mean 5,000 10,000? [1:54:25] Marsha Olson: let's start with five start with five you guys yeah I'm I'm fine with that 22 or off of the 19? [1:54:30] Councilmember Justin: hard to really push that toward the limit but I agree with five I mean I think I think it's going to be like to see more but I think we should be yeah we'll take we'll take five from the 22 and then you know add five in on the revenue side yeah subtract five from what we're asking in the levy okay if he is actually has the $1,600 a months would that still would the five be over and above that? no no okay no it'll come out of that 22. [1:55:10] Marsha Olson: okay um training dues and subscription just the classes and things we can take um Animal Control 1200 I think do we have a flat fee on that too if they don't pick anything up I think we have a monthly just a monthly rate okay that's what I thought too yeah I don't know yeah that sounds right yeah probably 100 bucks when they we got charged when they thought they caught what was it Mark's dog or something yeah yes incorrectly... [1:55:50] Councilmember Justin: naed Mark wasn't my dog delivered a dog saw the dog it was a nice I would have kept it probably but was pay paying for it that's funny um engineering 145 which is you know a little bit less than half of what we've paid so far this year which is much less than past years of looks like too so yes not bad I think that'll depend a little bit because we will have yeah the lift station engineering but I believe we are hopefully including that in our budget for the lift station when we know what it's going to cost that's later yeah that's later and and it's the very last line yeah okay. [1:56:30] Marsha Olson: yeah okay all right okay so then the general government buildings and plant that's just kind of based on past history and so nothing nothing or shuttering there um sorry insurance and liability just a tiny inflationary factor there just in case okay okay the police the contracted Services I believe that is a solid number that Becky had gotten mhm fire is also a solid number um for the police did did Becky call call around you know because we had talked about her calling White Bear to see if they would police us? [1:57:30] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: yeah I I think I think ü she's in process yeah we don't have for now we don't have we don't have any information but yeah before we land on our final numbers we certainly or our first number that we have to just to let people know too that we are looking around at different options for this because I know we had the conversation earlier that we're disappointed with some of the enforcement efforts so we are looking at options but so what not many not like you can't just go to Amazon and pick a police force it's right might not be much sorry ü okay so I take it back I don't need to be on that list ü so with respect to fire ü we got hit we budgeted for fire last year and then we got found out in like January and we're just about increased fees for their new building in White Bear lake is that included here? [1:58:30] Marsha Olson: I believe this 45 or 4,500 is a solid number I'll just I'll double check it with Becky okay because we just can you go to the next page like we got some Bill that was like oh hey this isn't in the budget... [1:58:45] Councilmember Justin: fortune yeah like like look at our okay so did our police really go up that much from 2023 to 2024? [1:59:00] Councilmember Kathy Weier: yeah they added the extra off remember but they they added the officer because they wanted that $30,000 ü safety money that we got mhp yep yeah the state gave us money and they all that as an opportunity no Kathy's right though she's comparing 36,217 to 87,271 right so the 36,217 is our actual we spent through half of the year she on the three number but we this was reduced by that Grant though right oh the grant the grant reduced it I was looking at 2022 is 96 then we went the was on the fire it was fire you could use it for police or fire so last year we didn't budget for anything for fire but that's listed here for fire the actual 2023 is ü that let's check that number that that's yeah that that looks wrong then the 2022 police looks weird yeah the past numbers look wrong so okay check them yeah check them okay. [1:59:50] Marsha Olson: um building Administration 60,000 because I think that's Jack's contract he gets a certain amount 20% yeah and that's based on just a projection I assume of what we anticipate will be our and we don't have an additional fee in addition to that amount I think so that would be correct um and then the big there's a big jump under Highway streets and Roads and that has to do with that the actual engineering numbers plus an extra 15,000 for pothole repair holes okay and everything plus the 23 so between 50,000 plus we have the 23 from the state right so that's 73,000 for the roads then because there's that $23,000 from the state oh the gas tax yeah yeah that'll go against this so do we need okay so we have 86 oh I'm sorry then it's not that the proposed is 82,000 so do we need to lower this 23 knowing that we're getting that money from the state well it's lowering the levy coming on on the front page ü right oh I see yep you're right so they do cross each other sorry I'm adjusting my brain to the I'm sorry I'm very visual so I have to put everything in there and then have a tie out at the bottom no you're fine I hide rolls and stuff if that bothers you no you're fine you're fine I just have to adjust my brain to thinking on both sides of the balance sheet. [2:01:20] Councilmember Justin: is this the only place we have any ü Street funds? [2:01:25] Marsha Olson: that's the only thing coming in for the street funds yes. [2:01:30] Councilmember Kathy Weier: what did we have on our well so this 10 year yeah what we spend this past year? I think that's roughly kind of where we want to stay yeah we as I understand it this number was based on the plan Marcus Johnson put together for next year because next year is ü next year is a little bit of an anomaly it's a little lower and then after that it jumps up another 50,000. [2:01:50] Councilmember Justin: so for next year's budget that'll have to be plus 50 would it make sense to split that between two years so we can spread that out a little bit or would I don't know because it's going to have to be a 100 every year after that so it's like it's not going to really help just putting another unless you want to spread that out over... well I was thinking if we... well you're already at 82 if you bump it up to 100,000 and then just have that for a... that's what I I we had 100 this year that's kind of the expectation right? I would every year expand the scope of the we just to put in new stop signs or next year you for the that $4,000 could go in there. [2:02:40] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: it's true I mean I don't think we've gotten any blowback people are happy to get get the roads done yeah I haven't heard anyone upset about road construction happening I have have you? [2:02:50] Councilmember Justin: it's not on their street yeah it's okay so really I'll tell you later would you like to change that one like no I would like to bump that up possibly 100 so that it's consistent I'm actually with Kathy but I don't have super strong feelings so I I think we should bump it to 100 sounds like three three in favor at least okay. [2:03:15] Marsha Olson: okay we can always come down if we absolutely have to but I would like to plan for it okay that'll cover stop signs and stuff too I think so ü care M I think we just signed a contract for $5,000 no for street sweeping for contract tree services oh tree removal I I was I was thinking we have the tree inspector oh yeah tree inspector yp tree inspector person and then we actually took tree removal down to 10,000 yp Street lighting 17,000 I'm not sure why there wasn't anything budgeted in 24 I thought we I could have sworn lighting I could have sworn we did I think we did yeah let's check that okay it's a lot of money to spend on Street lighting mhm would just the electricity for that 863 flat flashlights tree lighting sorry to jump back to ice and snow removable so oh yeah 23 was an anomaly that was 99 inches of snow or whatever so I don't we'll rarely hit 45 Grand but I'd say also counter last year was also an anomaly where we had a dozen inches of snow so 15 grand was on the low side it's 20 fair enough guess or would it be fair to be just a hair higher than that so ü good question ü there's two if you look two it's 40 total so it's salt and sand and I made the same mistake yeah it's it's salt and sand that's the materials is 20 and then the services is okay then then yeah I think we're we have salt and sand left over from last year I can't believe we'd use 15,000 last year I AG dump that much you dumped the they it was like the circus out there when there was they just went nuts I saw that but right right and ü we've had a discussion with them and I think we're going to try to look around see what we can find we did already and there no one wants us try it's hard I hard job but yeah yeah no I've I've had I've had many discussions with them yeah okay well yeah I mean I'm sure they were hurting I don't want to open up a wound well no I mean Mark have yeah you have a good point ü that you know I think we had a decent amount budgeted for that last year I was about to make a salt punch we have good question being this year in between was a low snow of that it's you're going to be somewhere in between the past two years 40 I think is reasonable but yeah yeah okay that way if we have 70 it's not going to be quite as bad yeah yeah true yeah and then with with tree removal we kind of skipped by that too but you know anomaly higher in 2023 ü but you know we were thinking you know there's always going to be trees being removed you know but we were thinking 10 are people happy with that ü you know I mean we can do the budget was more for 2024 how much can okay can we get a little bit of a do we know how much like 10K takes like it's not that much is it like tree removal? [2:07:30] Councilmember Kathy Weier: so for my tree the big one Steve Dean always gives Steve Dean does yeah does more than fair deal he absolutely does um I know he had some issues with his eyes recently so I'm not sure that we can depend on Steve Dean for all of that forever right but um ü when I had a quote done for my trees I had one that was a medium sized tree and that was about $2,000 so that's five trees five trees that seems a bit low but Steve Dean also gives a much better rate than a contractor doing one tree so figure Seven Trees that's a really good price yeah he does he does but as you know as you mentioned Kathy ü you know if if he's back online you know but if he's not then how many trees do we I mean did we get rid of all those ash trees already or do we still have more to go? [2:08:15] Councilmember Justin: no so we're aiming to try and get a grant for taking out a good portion of Polly's Park I believe still had 101 trees but I'd also yeah you want some of this in there for emergencies that's what I'm trying to figure out like maybe we should do 15 instead of 10? you feel like probably should we probably shouldn't take that one down at any point just because okay Emerald Ashboro is still still with us yeah who knows what the next one I hear Chestnut boar is a new one for oak trees so fun times. [2:08:55] Marsha Olson: are we going to have any trees over Chestnut B for oak trees? [2:09:00] Councilmember Justin: well Emerald Ash B is for Elm so why not? [2:09:05] Marsha Olson: the ü recycling number of 2400 I believe I can double check with Becky but I think that's a solid number okay does that take into account the grant we get for that too? I that's a question for Becky I'm sorry should know okay yeah I'll check on that maybe I'll wait a couple days to bother her oh yeah well she's feeling better till she's feeling a little better yes we got a couple days parks and City Maintenance ü wages and and all that's pretty pretty straightforward with just a tiny little bump for inflation okay so we did just approve for Parks 10% of that what was it on the 31st was it 800 8,000 wasn't it for us? [2:10:10] Councilmember Justin: I don't think we approved a dollar amount but I'm happy to figure one in. [2:10:15] Councilmember Kathy Weier: yeah so the grant was for 80,000 and then we had to do 10% of that so that would be 8,000 that we'd need to budget for yeah that's 8,000 can we just take that out of the is the dock fees we can use the dock... let's use the dock fees for that if that but we need to make sure we don't use that for maintenance then we have 10,000 left over from this year I think right now in dock fees I don't know if there's a plan for that but the fence that we want to do and some other things end up coming out that so maybe we bump that up then a little bit huh you're suggesting ü I'm sorry something for Parks probably repairs and maintenance and maintenance and you want to bump that up to 8,000 or no no ü repairs and maintenance I don't know another 3,000 maybe 4,000 total well do we have the lawn care maintenance in there as well we have to have that? [2:11:15] Marsha Olson: I was going to ask that I thought that was in here maybe do you guys want to take that the lawn care maintenance stuff stuff online and maybe we just add how much do you think we should add in addition to that when we did we hired someone to do that and that was yeah so I don't know if you need to add extra to or if that goes under wag salary since we're having less staff time or I would say that'd be contracted service yeah that's true should it should be another contracted Services yeah I don't know that it would change wages and salaries because it was overworked get everything done so I assume he's still doing his same lers I still don't know what he's doing [Music] sorry I'm sorry I don't I don't know if anybody does you can come in and meet with with him and we can have that discussion it's watering all the trees we just got that big hose big hose. [2:12:15] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: all right um well ü what what was our lawn contract? let's figure that out. [2:12:20] Marsha Olson: Marsha I will get back to you on the lawn care contract all right and then um we want to put a little bit in for our matching Grant but not the full 8,000. [2:12:30] Councilmember Kathy Weier: so you you were suggesting just another couple of thousand just so bump that repairs up to three from a thousand okay yeah just to just to supplement for we got a couple years to to pay the 8,000 but I think we have to pay it in advance so we have to figure that out anyway but okay okay. [2:13:00] Marsha Olson: well and she said too you might be able to get grants for even maintenance to do that yeah yeah I just don't want to bank on it quite yet no which be great yeah great. [2:13:10] Councilmember Justin: okay so down below you'll see the escrow refunds at 30,000 come out ü there's the $30,000 that we move to the Capital Improvement fund we need that even that we're essentially doing that with the roads ü my understanding is is the Capital Improvement fund the whole purpose of that is to is to deal with things like roads and General Capital Improvements do we need to add 30,000? do we have some we had some automatic transfer there or so I don't understand yp the we budget for it here comes into the general fund need for another through the levy and then through board approval we usually move it over to the Capital Improvement fund. [2:14:15] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: well let's let's let's let's think about that let's check into that but it's nice to have it's nice to have something in the Capital Improvement fund what's in the Capital Improvement fund though how much do you know how much is in that? ü that's an easy thing to check isn't it? [2:14:35] Marsha Olson: 75,000 it should be up on my ü 75 75,000 I mean that's that's another lift station that's what I was thinking is do you just want to slowly start socking that away for the lift the next lift station that goes in 5 to 10 years? [2:14:50] Councilmember Ryan: I mean I I think it's worth making a general remark which is I asked Becky to throw in the ü and it was probably ultimately asking you Marsha our financial statements ü and it does look like we have a fairly significant structural imbalance on the good side of things and by then I mean it looks like we have wouldn't you kind of agree with that that we have I I got to look at the financial statements but it seems like for example in 2024 we've spent quite a bit less than we planned for correct yeah and yeah so that no snow thing really helped well a couple months it's been a combination of things and you don't it's better more than less but on the other hand you don't want to we got to what's our overage do you think? [2:15:35] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: probably yeah and there could be $25,000 in tree ü removal if we have a storm I mean you know we ü you know you just need to be able to cover those expenses or one more lift station break I mean how many have we had now just this year? so but or a sinkhole I just had a I mean we one oh really... [2:16:00] Councilmember Ryan: I think the problem with a structural imbalance is you can you could cut your taxes next year probably and just spend down your reserves but then you'd be end up with either really low reserves or else big big tax increases later on it might be worth that's what trouble is is I don't want to sit here and like just keep building up a massive Reserve at expense taxpayers and so no one wants to have a massive Reserve but I think best practices are we have we have a reserve yeah yeah and the I think the Minnesota Association well of townships because I usually deal with townships ü they recommend like ü nine months worth in reserves of your general expenses so ü okay all right and where are we do you know where we're at with respect to that? [2:16:50] Marsha Olson: I have to look at that it looks to me like we're probably let's figure that out because I think that's a really good question is where are we at on our reserves that's a really good question to ask and I think that's that's a good it's a good benchmark like if you're saying okay most townships they're at 9 months reserve and then let's aim for that and if we're over then either we should be transferring this some of that to the Capital Improvement fund to save for a lift station if we want to do that or ü reducing this budget so that we save the taxpayers money because ü I I I just having a bunch in the bank account without a purpose is just sort of like you know no 100% no and and it helps to when we do have it in the bank to identify the project that yeah it's for and you know it could even be helped to soften the blow next year with yeah roads and stuff so right yeah. [2:17:35] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: thank you this is very this is I mean quite frankly this is the best budget in my hill but like this is the best budget even better so ü thank you like where maybe I just detail I should say maybe I just tuned out for a second but where is our tech spending in here our Metro inet successor techie dudes and so on? [2:18:10] Marsha Olson: that is like three pages back did I I tuned out for a second maybe huh? okay software expense 2100 is that is that where it is under software expense? that's part of it ü ü cleaning cleaning is 750 and then ü communication is that where it is communication is where techie dudes all right and Metro I will be or vice-versa yeah that's our okay that's and so if you go down to her notes at the bottom R is okay Metro inet and forecasted techie dudes internet and oh super okay great I I really like these notes too because they're they're actually really helpful yeah all right and 5,000 is probably 250 a month that's 4,000 and then we'll do another we might want to put 500 more there but that's probably picking nets at some point isn't it? [2:19:15] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: so if you want to put it in we can yeah it's okay we'll can do talk about it next time so so on the total general fund disbursements down at the very bottom it looks like our new one is 1,371 compared to 2024's of 552 yes it looks a little engineer one it looks a little wonky just because all the non-levy stuff is in here as well okay and the ends of the receipts look equally as off right wouldn't those have been in the other years too? [2:19:55] Councilmember Justin: no no as far as like the budget amounts or did we not pull that in we didn't pull that in prior to this year okay okay but you know if this honestly if this is not appeasing to the way you want to see things just let me know no no I was just trying to figure out as far as like ü last year we had like it was a percentage up by a certain amount kind of Marsha... [2:20:15] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: though we haven't talked about engineering ü right Professional Services engineering ü we we need to kind of make it explicit what we we get charged that the city gets back you know um and then what we pay our engineering fees like like have those number be separate too mean to right I mean yp okay so is that that's the lift that would be added to the so meaning what we charged homeowners? [2:20:55] Marsha Olson: yeah I mean you know they there's some that tie out and then there's some that we need to ask for in the Levy right? so we have to make sure we understand what that number is so we're talking just so I'm clear we're talking on page one the the general fund just the income right? we have so some of that what we charge our residents for planning and for um may engineering expenses are are there it's like thrown into that escrow's account because typically like if you open an escrow for a resident theoretically it'll be closed out the same year you know so they pay it right. [2:21:40] Councilmember Ryan: I think everything's coming through the engineer so we just need to find a way to how to break out the ü stuff that's being charged back to Residents. [2:21:55] Marsha Olson: so are you talking Margaret ü page four the Professional Services engineering a 14,000 where where are we where are we? ü right here yeah yeah yeah I just I just want to make sure that that that number is offset in the income yp the whole 14,000? no no no that's the the 14 is the extra that we're budgeting correct correct okay um are we are we good with that number yeah okay. [2:22:40] Councilmember Justin: yeah okay well so that's just City work basically right yeah ü you know I'm having to do with the lift station coming into the well the lift station's on a different that's in the 600 isn't that the lift station one? the lift station engineering would be included in that yeah because we we you check I believe you checked and we can we it looked like in your notes you so that we can use some of the grants for that for that we just don't know what the lift station yeah and there there's yeah there's there's a little bit of a wrinkle there though um for for engineering ü we have to make sure that it's competitively Bid and there's a whole set of guidelines okay you know for that for in order to use that grant money for engineering fees okay I would hope we're competitively bid well I think that means for the Engineering Services not for the lift station not for the Construction Construction so we would have to open this up to non-Bolton and Menk to basically bid for the contract and you can probably do that can we use Rice Creek money for that portion of it without competitively bidding? because we have two grants yeah and you know and and that's a good question and we should look into that but I I just I'd like to make sure that we're or maybe we just we've looked at all not a bad idea just throw it out there everything around the engineering I believe that Becky did double check on that and we can use the Rice Creek okay okay so but I mean it might be worth just double yeah it it wouldn't hurt to competitively bid it I guess so it's okay. [2:24:20] Marsha Olson: all right um and so if on the first note on Note A on the notes page ü it kind of gave obviously we've changed a lot of numbers but there you you can go there and look at see what your percentage change was over what the budget was in 2024 it looks like we did awful the disbursements yes the disbursements are awful I could take those off until we have a it's okay couple of comparative years yeah that that might be good so that people understand that it's a different way of looking at it yeah some of the actuals and the others numbers aren't quite right most just look at that that Top Line yp I can ü I'll take the bottom line off for now and then it won't be so shocking and my hope is that when we actually get pricing for that lift station will be pleasantly surprised I know that won't happen but until we have that lift station actually bid I feel like the Capital Improvement we might want to leave that 30,000 just in case... want to wait until ü prices go up another 30%? I know I know. [2:25:35] Councilmember Justin: all right do you have any other questions? people have more questions for Marsha? [2:25:45] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: oh this is great thank you so much Marsha. [2:25:50] Councilmember Justin: thank you Marsha thank you. [2:25:55] Councilmember Kathy Weier: thank you Margaret and Justin and Margaret helped a lot too thank you for waiting so long no problem um I was going to ask you guys ü after talking to Mary cill part of our internal controls are that I need to have two of you volunteer to re-look over the reconciliation records... [2:26:25] Councilmember Kathy Weier: I'm happy to do it. [2:26:30] Councilmember Justin: okay ü I I could probably fit that in but I I could probably fit that in okay so that'd be if somebody else is excited that's okay but I looked over last time and I'd be happy to put that in to do again if we want to so. [2:26:50] Marsha Olson: okay do you want me to throw out some dates? sure that'd be good that'd be good. [2:27:00] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: thank you Marsha thank you. [2:27:10] Councilmember Ryan: is that something you can just do remotely? can you just... [2:27:15] Marsha Olson: it's much easier to look through the books binders yeah oh they're binders they have a binder but you can take it home yeah no that's probably don't want that either though that's right yeah I'll put you to sleep. [2:27:25] Councilmember Justin: thank you Marsha. [2:27:30] Marsha Olson: right thank you so much. [2:27:35] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: all right on on to ü City business um and we are on item C second reading of ordinance 2024-07-01 Water and Sewer permit on the fee schedule right and ü I think you know Ryan did did you want to just just just for the record before we do the public hearing just kind of update us as to as to this was? were you the one who proposed this? [2:28:15] Councilmember Ryan: well no I think you actually proposed it and then we asked that it be like go into an ordinance and then I as usual picked some nits and and this was kind of how it was reformatted a little bit and the only and so this is actually a second reading of this this this we passed last and then it was basically I think it was clarified significantly here I helped Becky and Alan a little bit ü fix it up the only question I have is maybe the lawyers here can tell me whether this is a big deal but it says an ordinance amending ordinance 2024-01-02 which was in January I think we amended the fee schedule probably a bunch of times since January I don't know if that's a big deal should I care like? [2:29:15] Councilmember Justin: yeah just I mean let's I I mean my recommendation is just remove that ü just say you know the city of Birchwood Village has a fee schedule prescribing the fees for various services and then just remove the rest of that plus the title yeah and then the city would like to at charge I don't think the actual I don't know Margaret what do you think? um and so so take out the verbiage about memorializing in by in by by yeah in by ordinance 20... I mean because I mean it's just a fee schedule let's do that it delete that part and um and then we we should be we should be good on that one. [2:30:15] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: okay well let's um I'd like to open the public hearing do we need a motion? [2:30:30] Councilmember Justin: well you just open it you just open it nobody here no right no one's here um um and so I'd like a motion to close the public hearing. [2:30:45] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: moved all right okay okay all right all in favor opposed all right public hearing is closed all right I move to pass or 2024-07-01 with that change with that change and I'll second that. [2:31:05] Councilmember Kathy Weier: okay Kathy seconds all in favor I opposed motion carries we did the variance already yp animal barriers yp okay what page is that on? 110 thank you yeah. [2:31:30] Councilmember Justin: first reading of ordinance 2024-08-02 to ü about animal barriers so this is really deer fencing and Ryan thank you for taking a than you I think we worked together a little bit that was that was good yeah I changed a little bit after we talked but I hope it's okay. [2:31:50] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: no no I I think I think it looks good and ü do is there a comment from ü from Council? it's good to meet as far as it's a non-permanent so I'm okay with it I tried to do that that way so um and the only other remark I have is there's a couple in here where a 6XX didn't get changed to a 623 so we need to oh ü in the title just it's just a I just gave it over and it just didn't get oh it didn't it didn't quite all fix so we probably need to just fix that up before round two so okay we'll make sure that we get all the the ins and outs okay one one comment now that I look at it 623-02 height above grade so just let's add before A shall mean just say for the purposes of this of chapter 63 just I don't want somebody like got it you know but what about that fencing ordinance about this about that three... I mean stupid but okay people do that so okay that purposes of this section yeah that change I'll okay all right. [2:33:10] Councilmember Justin: I'll move to ü adopt the first reading of ordinance number 2024-d802 and send it to a second reading next meeting. [2:33:20] Councilmember Kathy Weier: all right may I have a second? I'll second Kathy Kathy um all in favor I I opposed motion carries. [2:33:30] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: there there is another one of those 6XX on there's a couple of them yeah we'll take Ryan and I will take a look at it together and make sure we um have have it accurate all right. [2:33:45] Councilmember Justin: um the next item is G Southshore Trail joint Powers agreement and ü I'd like to and we've been looking at this and kind of sending it back with little tweaks and you know to to to White Bear Township and ü Becky and I met with the folks from White Bear Township and ü and really it's hard for them to ü to forecast exactly what our portion is going to be we have such a tiny little portion there and sorry and well I'm just saying it you know so they they have a hard time doing that that's the last thing we ask them to do and they said you know we've had a good relationship with them we work with them over so many things they'd like us to you know they'll be very careful that to make sure that we only get charged for our portion and ü so so they'd just like us to to sign the agreement as as the LA the last one that we sent over without the ü need to forecast so anyway I recommend we do it I think we have had a long-term relationship with them I don't I don't think they're looking to to gouge us and and really we'll be able to budget I think probably after getting some data this year we'll be to able to accurately budget for coming years. [2:35:10] Councilmember Ryan: so I just have a question it just looks to me like paragraph 4 it this whole paragraph I can read it but it basically says this is a gentleman's agreement or gentle woman's agreement maybe and ü like there's really no consequence it's just kind of a good faith thing which actually seems kind of nice for something like this is that a reasonable reading of that? [2:35:35] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: well yes I think I well I know well I think I think what they their point is that that they do work with us over you know our our sewer they come and fix our sewers when we have problems we trust them they trust us yeah and I I think we'd like to keep that relationship I don't think we want to go looking for a new vendor. [2:36:15] Councilmember Justin: what's what's your what's your take on it on it Justin? I guess I I maybe you read that differently than I do because that was I'm trying to read it I'm my concern right is um well I have a lot of concerns about this but um my concern here is that like are are we waving any obligation like like if like right they're responsible for snow removal if they don't remove the snow and somebody slips and falls and breaks their ankle are we liable for that then when it's their problem that they didn't remove the snow? [2:36:50] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: I yeah well I me I don't mean to throw I know you've been working with them so I don't mean to like... yeah the same if it happened out here though you got insurance to cover that. [2:37:10] Councilmember Justin: yeah and I and I do think that they you know they are very much on on the job about removing snow you know and I know Margaret but you're fighting every instinct I have as an attorney to say like do not do this. [2:37:30] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: I know I know but ü yeah I I ü I mean our alternative is you know ü we're going to have to take care of all these things ourselves and and I think that they're a bigger operation they they get they get on it right away um you know I I think we we open ourselves to maybe more liability if we try to take on these these jobs and when they're out doing their portion which is a much larger portion it takes him five extra minutes to do ours so I'm I'll I'll make a motion to sign off on this. [2:38:15] Councilmember Justin: I'll second all right um all in favor I opposed I all right motion carries. [2:38:25] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: should say I don't know is it I or an Aye I think you can do either um sometimes you say signify by the same but you know either I'm okay all right thank you Justin the motion carries all right all right ü the next item is H Ash path split rail fence quotes. [2:38:45] Councilmember Justin: looks good to me yeah much better 1500 bucks looks nice do it. [2:38:50] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: okay I I assume that assume that Justin's making a motion. [2:38:55] Councilmember Justin: I'll move to approve that and get him going on that could I just make it let get a second in there and then I'll I'll ask for comment... [2:39:10] Councilmember Ryan: all right all right Mark second okay Ryan I guess I just think that paying ü Ron Koehnle 25 bucks an hour for this kind of work is a little low I I think work like this could be especially when he's leading the project I think he's giving us a an extremely good rate I would be happy to bump up his rate to $30 an hour so... [2:39:35] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: I'll take his quote yeah that's what he quoted us I mean I mean he's an employee so let him set his own price okay yp okay all right ü we have a motion in a second um all in favor I I oppose motion carries all right. [2:40:00] Councilmember Justin: next item is I vacant properties and Ryan would you like to yeah I can I take this one so as we know we've kind of been trying to work with ü a few vacant properties here over a number of months and ü you know we've kind of been I've done a fair amount of work we've passed resolutions ü we've asked Alan to site the ü onto two of these properties 310 and 312 we've asked ü Alan to work with the sheriff to issue some citations ü we ü in July we asked for a citation to be issued we had also asked for citations to be issued in June ü as ü as far as I'm aware no citation has yet been issued ü despite the city council having directed that and so ü you know I had wanted to discuss that with Alan a little bit tonight and ü just find out what our process is it's a little frustrating because now we're waiting yet another month to kind of move these forward and there's erosion going into the street on these um I'm not sure what I'm... [2:41:40] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: did you have a comment Margaret? oh I was just going to suggest that would you be willing to ü you and I meet with Alan ü just just to get a wouldn't be a bad idea and then we can we can report out at the next meeting it would probably be I me this is getting let's let's do that get them say and then so let's do that let's also we do we need a motion let's invite the sheriff to our September meeting I think it'll be good to have the sheriff here to see the road safety thing as well. [2:42:10] Councilmember Justin: that would be great um and then so those those are my things but I I actually think I hadn't thought about that but I think that is really a good idea let's meet with Alan and just discuss this with him a little bit rather than talking about it without him here so especially but I like that idea thank you and um I also just wanted to raise we asked for a couple of spe of I don't know what it is is it a special assessment or a certification maybe you know Margaret because you're a what when we have a fee and we assess that to somebody what is that called um is it a special assessment or a certification to taxes or what kind of fee are you tax? you mean when when the vacant building fee when we're certifying these to taxes? I don't quite know you know I'm I'm not sure my my thing was more just a Val you know valuation of large commercial yeah right so I didn't know but ü but I just wanted to get an update because we'd asked that that be done and I thought usually when you do that you want to do that kind of right away so that if somebody sells a property they get stuck with it when at the closing time so I just wanted to ask but Becky is ill so maybe we just well why don't we give her a little question yeah let's just ask about that plus I just wanted to have somebody kind of talk to me about the whole code okay enforcement process and just learn a little bit so I think that's a great idea ü is ü Council ü fine with sounds good to me I mean I think we need a more effective manner of enforcing our code because having a resolution telling Alan to site somebody and it doesn't get done for three months is ridiculous well I I think yeah we'll we'll figure out a a a way to appreciate it that's great okay that sounds good all right ü and then the next item is J the Hunt Electric claim from July's Treasures report Ryan and I both looked into this and ü I I propose we we pay that claim the permit was was gotten and we've we've talken talked with therese about the process so I propose I make a motion that we ü approve that claim. [2:44:35] Councilmember Justin: I'll second ü any for looking into it ü did we skip EPA update? [2:44:45] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: oh did I well... one 18 ü go back to it well let's let's let's finish let's finish this one and then we can go back okay um ü we have a motion in a second yeah all right all in favor I opposed motion carries. [2:45:00] Councilmember Kathy Weier: okay ü which one are we looking at Kathy? [2:45:10] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: did I miss... that's next is it next? oh 8 ü you're right Margaret just keep going okay okay keep going all right K administrator updates on Becky's not here but but ü we have materials in our packet about the L lift station update and just as a summary ü we met recently with ü our ü contacts ü that administer the Grant and we're still waiting for the the ü cultural heritage approval and you know it's in process and we hopefully should be getting that pretty soon and you know I guess that's the same report we made last time but you know until we get hope we get it before the thing breaks I I know we have to... [2:46:15] Councilmember Justin: did this new region five representative tell us how long it's going to take? [2:46:30] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: ü they ü they just said as soon as they possibly can you know yeah I know I know I really thank you I really appreciate just the paragraph it I think that's really good just to thank you so much ü to Becky and ü yeah you know so well you're welcome I'm happy to do it and and I I do think though the next meeting that we have I'm going to explain to them though that we really do need to start getting these things finalized so that we can bid out and get our project done. [2:47:20] Councilmember Justin: explain to the EPA you mean? [2:47:35] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: right exactly you know to say is there a way then I mean this has been ü taking some time and so there might be a way that if it's been taking all this time that we can just say you know let's bid it out and assume we're getting approval which we will just because it's a project that it's just we're replacing what's there. [2:48:10] Councilmember Justin: well the environmental damage of them sitting around and waiting for this thing to fail and overflow into the lake is going to be greater yeah so so I think there are arguments to be made yeah. [2:48:30] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: so far I mean you know you know we're we're on track in theory in theory question yeah that's right um and then the is there any of this that can be done during the winter? oh the the bid bidding and the designation everything I assume but as far as like yeah they won't be able to construct until until later but I think the bids can be done as soon as we get our plan in place and approvals yeah so okay does anyone else have questions? [2:49:10] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: okay um update on recycling Grant I think the main thing on that was ü we need to decide whether we want you know stickers on our recycling containers or metal posts but I think stickers are fine what do you think? can you can I see something that's where are the stickers going see the bins on the recycling bins for the beaches is that right? [2:49:50] Councilmember Justin: yeah I guess and what do the okay and the what do the stickers say that like what I'm fine with it like do we want to just have Parks look at this maybe? [2:50:00] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: and I think we can solve this one Parks or just do this here tonight I don't know I'm do the stickers stickers... [2:50:10] Councilmember Justin: stick stickers I'm not yeah I'm not too yeah we don't need more sign clutter yeah I think I think I mean I yeah I'm not sure staff need more my opinions sometimes so what what what there's recommended is fine. [2:50:35] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: all right well ü I make a motion that we recommend that ü the stickers are are good result here ü may I have a second? [2:50:45] Councilmember Justin: I'll second. [2:50:50] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: okay all in favor I I opposed okay motion carries all right inspection tree inspection all right it it looks like we did have a tree inspection which took place ü the week of July 22nd and we do not have the results yet ü so we will keep everyone informed when we get them um and ü Kathy do you have anything to add about trees in general? [2:51:30] Councilmember Kathy Weier: no the DNR well I guess I do the DNR has ü planed on doing the relief Grant again this year so they had said that they were going to open up for rebidding and we do have the Polly Park project where we have most of the materials from a previous Grant we attempted to get to resubmit for that um but it's not open for ü submittal yet so once that does open up we'll try for that one okay great thank you Kathy. [2:52:10] Mayor Jennifer Arsenault: now we can make like trees in a... adjourn huh? that's right yeah we I have a motion to adjourn all so moved right second second yeah okay Justin all in favor okay meeting adjourned thank you everybody thanks. [2:52:35] [Music]