The hour of 6:30 having arrived, I will call to order I will call to order the common council meeting of Tuesday, October 28th, 2025, and ask the clerk to please call the role. >> Alder O'Brien present. >> Alder O'Brien is present. Alder Ohich. >> Alder Ohich is present. Alder Pritchette >> Alder Pritchette is present. Alder Tishler >> here. >> Alder Tishler is present. Alder Vier >> here. >> Alder Vier is present. Alder Vidver. >> Alder Vidiver is present. Alder Duncan is excused. Alder Evers >> here. >> Alder Evers is present. Alder Field >> is here. >> Alder Field is present. Alder Figuro Cole >> here. >> Alder Figureroa Cole is present. Alder Glenn >> here. >> Alder Glenn is present. Alder Gavindrain >> here. >> Alder Gavinder Rajin is present. Alder Yugare >> here. >> Alder Yugare is present. Alder Harrington McKini >> present. >> Alder Harrington McKini is present. Alder Lankeella >> here. >> Alder Lankella is present. Alder Knox >> present. >> Alder Knox is present. Alder Madison >> here. >> Alder Madison is present. Alder Martinez Rutherford >> Alder Martinez Rutherford is present. Alder Matthews >> here. >> Alder Matthews is present. Alder mayor >> here. >> Alder Mayor is present. Madame Mayor, we have quorum. >> Thank you. Uh, as usual, I will remind us that we're here to do the business of the people of Madison and ask that we do that with grace and kindness and that all concerned refrain from using profanity in your remarks this evening and uh encourage an expeditious meeting. Um, our first item is an honoring resolution item one legisar 900520 recognizing October as domestic violence awareness month. on item one. All there a motion please >> move to adopt. >> Is there a second? >> Second. >> Moved and seconded to adopt item one. We don't have anyone receiving this. So we'll dispense with reading. There any questions or discussion? [snorts] Seeing none, is there any objection to recording unanimous vote in favor? Seeing no objection, we'll record a unanimous vote in favor of item one. That will bring us to disclosures and recusals. Are there any disclosures or recusals from members of the body on tonight's agenda? Alder Field. >> Thank you, Mayor. On items 55,77, and 108, I work at WMadison. Just disclosing that will not affect my vote. >> Thank you, Alder. Alder Tishler. >> Uh I also on the same items, I'm also a W employee and will not affect my vote. >> Thank you, Alder. Alder Matthews. Um, on those same items, I'm also a WMadison employee and that won't affect my vote either. >> Thank you, Alder. Aler mayor, >> can I just say ditto? >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> As long as the clerk understands that. [laughter] Thank you, Aldo. Are there any further disclosures or recusals on tonight's agenda? >> Seeing none, we'll move on then to the presentation of the consent agenda. President Bidder. >> A consent agenda is moved with the recommended action listed for each item on the agenda except items that have registrants wishing to speak and items that alders have separated out for discussion debate purposes. This document lists supermajority items, agenda items with recommendations different from the agenda, items for exclusion, items introduced from the floor, and agenda items with corrections. The following agenda items are supermajority. 29, legislative file 89988, approving park commission resident appointments to the subcommittee of the board of park commissioners. Uh 14 votes required to adopt under suspension of MGO 2.055. Item 48, legislative file 90197, authorizing the parks division to submit and if awarded, accept a grant of up to 450,000 from the state of Wisconsin Department of Administration for park improvements and authorizing the mayor and city clerk to enter into a contract with state of Wisconsin DOA to accept the grant award and amending the park division 2025 adopted capital budget. 15 votes required. Number 50, legislative file 90199, authorizing Madison Public Library to submit and if awarded, accept a grant of up to $2 million from the state of Wisconsin DOA for Imagination Center at Rindall Park Construction and authorizing the mayor and city clerk to enter into a contract with state of Wisconsin DOA to accept grant award. 15 votes required. Item 51, legislative file 90204, authorizing the parks division to submit and if awarded, accept grant of up to 450,000 from the state of Wisconsin DOA for park improvements and authorizing the mayor and city clerk to enter into contract with state of Wisconsin DOA to accept grant award and amending the parks division 2025 adopted capital budget. 15 votes required. Item 52, legislative file 90233, amending the 2025 adopted operating budget for the city of Madison Fire Department to accept $66,840.91 of grant funding from the Department of Homeland Security, Federal Emergency Management Agency for the 2024 Assistance to Firefighters Grant. 15 votes required. Item 54, legislative file 900270, authorizing the parks division to submit and if awarded, accept a grant of up to $1 million from the state of Wisconsin DOA for park improvements and authorizing the mayor and city clerk to enter into a contract with state of Wisconsin DOA to accept the grant award. 15 votes required. Item 57, legislative file 89233, approving a certified survey map of property owned by the Madison Metropolitan School District located at 1601 North German Avenue and 1610 Ruskin Street. 14 votes required to adopt under suspension of MGO 2.055. The following items have recommendations different from the agenda. Item 35, legislative file 90220, awarding public works contract number 9687, Country Grove single track trail improvements for 2025. Uh the correction is is that it was recommend to council to place on file. Item 40, legislative file 88483 is a substitute amending section 2.03 of the Madison general ordinances related to alder vacancies to add deta detail to the application process. This is still the title, I think, but that's not really what we did. [snorts] Um, [laughter] CCEC met uh earlier and the recommendation was to adopt the sub that there's actually a second substitute. Item 41, legislative file 90214 amending various sections of the Madison General ordinances to correct inconsistencies and improper references to the Madison general ordinances constituting a 2025 city attorney re revisers ordinance. CCEC met this evening and the recommendation was to adopt. Item 54, legislative file 900270, authorizing the parks division to submit and if awarded, accept a grant of up to $1 million from the state of Wisconsin DOA for park improvements and authorizing the mayor and city clerk to enter into a contract with the state of Wisconsin DOA to accept the grant award. Uh there's to adopt the substitute. Um, item 55, legislative file 90288, authorizing the terms of a land use restriction agreement regarding the redevelopment of the Saxony Apartments located at 305 North Francis Street by CoreMadison. I think it's supposed to say spaces LLC. Uh, finance committee is recommended recommend to adopt. Item 78, legislative file 900552, amended sections of chapter 28 of the Madison general ordinances related to housing and auto oriented uses in the transit oriented development overlay district. Uh, an additional referral to the transportation commission on 11/19. Uh, the reason for that is that bus routes determine the boundaries of the TOD and the transportation commission has input on the scope of the bus routes. Um items that have been excluded by speakers registered. Um item 1190227 approving plan specifications and schedule of assessments for MacArthur Road, Larson Court, MacArthur MacArthur Court, and Sycamore Avenue Assessment District in District 3. Item 12, creating uh sorry, 89899, creating section 28.022-0028 022-0000728 of the Madison General ordinances to change the zoning of property located at 6303 Portage Road and 4821 Heeper Road from temporary agriculture district to TRP traditional residential plan district in district 17. Item 58, uh, legisar 89767, impro approving the preliminary plat of the Leo living on property addressed as 6303 Portage Road and 4821 Heeper Road in district 17. And item 70, legisar 90017, approving a certified survey map of property owned by RE Supper Club LLC and Daniel R and Heidi Elfinki located at 456 to 4514 Verona Road in District 10. Following items are introduced from the floor. Legislative file 900316 authorizing members of the common council to solicit funds for the purpose of supporting the ongoing operations of a permanent men's shelter being built and scheduled to open in 2026 by Alder Figurole Cole. That will come to council on the 25th of November. Legislative file 90587 authorizing a non-competitive soul source purchase between alternative support apparatus LLC and the city of Madison Fire Department for a medstat off-road ambulance vehicle from Alderfield that will go to finance on 1117 and council on 11:25. [snorts] Thank you, President Vidver. Um a couple of notes. Um the registrants on items 12 and 58 um are deferring speaking and are available for questions only. So unless there's a separate request, we won't be uh separating those out. Um certainly if folks have questions, feel free to separate them. Um and I just want to double check and my apologies on number 41. The motion is to adopt. Yes. Oh, sorry. Yes, it's >> Thank you. So, um, are there any other items that alers would like to have separated from the consent agenda at this time? [snorts] Seeing none, and let me just go through that one more time to make sure we're all on the same page. Um the items uh 29 and 57 are 14 vote items. Items [gasps] 48, 50, 51, 52, 54 are 15 vote items. And the following items have recommendations that are different from what's printed on your agenda. Item 35, the recommendation is to place on file. Item 40, it's to adopt the second substitute. Item 41 is to adopt. Item 54 is to adopt the substitute. Item 55 is to adopt. Item 78, we're adding a referral to transportation commission um on 1119. And then we will be excluding items 11 and 70. And we have two introductions from the floor and no corrections. Everybody good? Okay, then a motion please. President Vid move to move to adopt consent agenda. Moved and seconded to adopt the consent agenda. Is there any objection to recording unanimous vote in favor? >> Seeing no objection, we'll record that vote and we will move on to public comment. So our first item with registrants wishing to speak is item 11 approving plan specifications and a schedule of assessments for MacArthur Road, Larsson Court, MacArthur Court, and Sycamore Avenue Assessment District 2026 in District 3. Our first registrant wishing to speak is Kimberly Suski of District 3 to be followed by Hilton Jones to be followed by Joseph Stupar. Do we have Kimberly? >> Hello. I'm here. >> Yep. Go ahead. >> Um I think that uh I was looking at the plans for the updates and I have a question regarding the um MacArthur Court and Larsson Court uh on the plans. Did I see that there's intentions to put sidewalks on in those courts? >> Ma'am, this is your chance to make comment. Um, if your alder wishes to ask a question later and get that answered by staff, they can, but um, we can't we don't do a back and forth during public comment. >> Um, well, okay. So, my my issue with this is that um it sounds like this is going to be a pretty expensive bill for some of the homeowners. And I was thinking that um some of this construction that they're intending to do or, you know, submitting to do is a little kind of unnecessary. If there's intentions to put sidewalks in uh MacArthur Court or Larsson Court, uh that seems like a waste. And um um as far as the curb and gutter or the updates to MacArthur Road, that's been on the game plan for as long as I've lived in my house, which is 10 years now. And um I can only imagine like how much it's going to cost the residents in that area to do those to do this construction and how do they get assistance to pay for that? So, I'm just wondering if there's uh basically my argument is is that um with our general area being strapped for cash, how does that um those fees or those costs and those things like that get divvied out to the homeowners in those areas when the constructions are done? And I guess I'm done with that. my arguments. I'm I am happy with the updates that are going to be done, but at the same time, I think there's some unnecessary uh construction or work or cost that's going to bear down on the homeowners for those updates. So, it would be nice to see other options and I I yield my time. >> Thank you very much. Our next registrant is Hilton Jones of District 3 uh to be followed by Joseph Stupart to be followed by Alexandra. Hilton. >> Hi, my name is Hilton Jones. I'm the Mayfair Park Neighborhood Association president, also a resident for over 20 years. Um, I'd like to ask a show of hands of the alder people. Have you read the email that I sent today? It'll help me be more concise if I know that you have read that email in the context. >> Reading it now. Thank you. >> Thank you very much for those who have read it. Um I will hit my main three points and then I'll be open for questions. Um I would like to request respectfully the council require compromise on the sidewalk placement. Um specifically with a minimal terrace width of 3 to 5 ft. This is to preserve the trees and both ex and accessibility. Um, I'd also like to request removing the sidewalks where residents have been explicitly clear they are not desired or needed for our specific street. That does comply with the green streets clean streets program. Uh, I would like to ask that they revert the Sycamore Avenue scope of the TC approved draft. Um, the TC had a draft that they approved. It was then changed specifically around the 3900 block of Sycamore Road before it went to the Board of Public Works. So, two entirely different plans. I brought it up at the board of public works and there was no additional comment at that point in time. I was not provided any additional time or any questions. Um so I find it inappropriate that the scope and the plan was changed between TC and Board of Public Works what was approved. And lastly, reassess special assessments for properties with no demonstrable benefit, especially on Sycamore Avenue, the 3900 block, which already has curb gutter full infrastructure improvements. Um in accordance with Wisconsin statute 66.07, 07.03 and relevant case law which I provided in my email today. Um proceeding at this current will force legal due process likely which the city and neighbors hope to avoid. Um it doesn't have demonstrable benefit to those residents in particular. So I'm concerned with those special assessments. Um these three compromise would honor the principles of equity, fiscal prudence, and community engagement. This would ensure that infrastructure improvements serve um rather than burden Madison residents. So, I appreciate your consideration and I'm available for questions. >> Thank you. Our next registrant is Joseph Stupar of District 3 to be followed by Alexandra who lives on MacArthur Road. Joseph? >> Yeah. Hey, I live on MacArthur Road. I've talked to a lot of homeowners and we're all pretty worried about the special assessments and the cost that's associated with them. Most people don't want sidewalk on both sides of the road. The people on MacArthur Court definitely don't want sidewalk and the people on Larson Court do not want sidewalk. The road uh reconstruction and sewer repair is not a special benefit to property owners. It is not a special or this is not a special assessment. It's general maintenance on public roads and public sewer. Homeowners should not have to pay for the lower sewer laterals. The city is calling this a special assessment to charge homeowners unfairly for general repairs. We have been paying property taxes for decades to maintain the roads. The repairs are not a special benefits for specific homeowners, especially on MacArthur Road because how many businesses we have. We have a daycare, we have a first uh care clinic, we have the CLA building, and we have tons of through traffic. So you guys redoing this road isn't a private benefit just to us. There's lots of through traffic and there's people coming there all the time. So, I talked to people who got $12,000 assessments and I know that's over assessed a little bit in case, but they're strapped for cash. Um, they're already paying the highest property taxes in the state and I don't know, they they feel they feel defeated because some of them have been living there for 20 years, 25 years, paying property taxes, thinking you guys are putting away a small amount. So when they do need to replace those sew sewer laterals, when they do need to replace the roads, it's covered by general taxes. Uh is there any questions? >> We do questions at the end. >> Okay. >> Um yeah, that's it for me. Um I just really would like you guys to reconsider the sidewalks on both sides and uh the speeding that goes on on that street. So that's probably the biggest concern to safety, not lack of sidewalks. This is through traffic. Well, thank you for your time. >> Thank you. Our last registrant wishing to speak on this item is Alexandra of District 3. >> Okay. Thank you. Are there questions for any of the registrants on this item? Alderfield. >> Thank you, Mayor. One for Hilton Jones. >> Thanks, Hilton. Thanks for coming. Um, we've talked a little bit about once before the notion of this reconstruct or some version of it has been around for a long time. I'm wondering if you can speak to your understanding about when that started or um perhaps why it never happened back when [clears throat] you first heard about it. >> Um, I'll give some approximates cuz it's been a long time. I've been in the neighborhood for over 20 years. Uh, I've been an owner for 18 years and I would guess it was about 16 years ago when the plan was first proposed. Um, we actually had an agreed plan all the way through with the city which didn't make it to budget. Um, that plan is quite a bit different than this one that had no sidewalks on the odd side of MacArthur Road, MacArthur Court or Duncan. Um it did have the connector sidewalks from the karinet building down to have a single safe street. Um that largely hit objection for two points back then was the plan from the city was to eminent domain um two residential properties in the neighborhood to make a cut through from Ellen Duncan to MacArthur which the neighborhood was against taking properties from two longtime residents to allow pass through of it. At that point in time, um, the logic from the city had to do with firet truck access. Um, of which point that no longer has become a problem because they've determined how firet trucks enter and exit. Um, the other main problem at that point in time was I believe residents had to pay for sidewalks and there was some concern over then of the additional cost for sidewalks. So that was the main reason it I would say it stalled and then the city cut it from the budget 17ish years ago. >> Sure. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. Any other questions for registrance on this item? Alder Evers. >> Uh yes, for Hilton again, please. >> Sorry. [laughter] >> Uh yeah, thank you for the email that you sent, Hilton. you indicate and um point two of the three points that you asked us to consider that um that transportation commission approved a draft that was changed without notice when it when the item appeared before the board of public works. Is that correct? >> That is accurate. >> Were residents were at all informed that this change was made? not until the board of till three days prior maybe two days prior to the board of public works it was issued. This specifically deals with the 3900 block of Sycamore A. Um p previously at the TC it only showed spot replacements of sidewalks. So the draft plan at the TC which was approved 3,800 is an unimproved section of Sycamore. 3900 is a fully improved section. It has curb, gutter, sidewalk, everything right the full works. And um at the TC they provided three options for the 3,800 for width of street, for terrace, etc. The 3900 block only showed spot replacements or sidewalks which was said for possible sewer laterals for trees etc. Right, just for maintenance. Um then the plan that was approved at TC was vastly changed. Um and what was provided to the board of public works was the surprise to the entire 3900 block. I'm a resident of the 3900 block and uh that was special assessment then for the entire 3900 block. Full tear out, full sewer laterals, full curb and gutter being removed and replaced for people who already have it. So what TC approved completely different concerning the 3900 block of Sycamore A >> and please clarify when you were notified of these changes. Um, >> you say 3 days before >> I would have to look back on the history of it. Um, just a few days prior is when the update came out for what the presentation to the board of public works would be. >> And how were you notified? >> I was not notified. I saw it on the public website. >> So, you were not sent a postcard or >> I was sent no postcard denoting there was a change from the TC plan to what the Board of Public Works would be presented. >> No, >> none whatsoever. >> No notification. no notification of any change of plan. >> And so residents on your street were their voices were not heard at the board of public works meeting at least not sufficiently in your mind as >> that is correct. They were not and there was a very limited time for me to attempt to mobilize to even inform people. The vast majority of 3900 Sycamore that I've talked to they weren't really paying attention because they didn't rightfully logically think anything was happening. They have curb and gutter. they have everything. Their first notice was when the special assessment cards came in the mail and that's when a lot of them reached out to me and said, "Hey, what's going on? We knew 3,800 was getting done. Why are we getting assessed?" >> I understand. Okay. Well, thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Alder. Alderfield, wait, don't go away yet. [laughter] >> Just one clarifying point on notification. Um, Hilton, can you speak to whether you got a postcard before the late August public engagement or public neighborhood meeting that we hosted on Zoom? Yes. >> Okay. So, the lack of notification then was about the change between the TC and the BPW. >> Notified of the original public meeting. Yes. I would I got that no notification of any change of scope. >> Um I would also like to note that I there's been a few changes that have happened. That's the official documented one. I also was asked by the city to go help when they did the initial walk in fall of last year. And I walked I spent two and a half hours of my day I walked with sidewalks and forestry and engineering and everyone when they were first laying out the plans. And I wish I had had it recorded, but I was told specifically from a gentleman in engineering that no worries, there would not be sidewalks forced on both sides of MacArthur Road or MacArthur Court or Duncan that it wouldn't behoove us. They talked specifically at that time when we walked the entirety of the street, the entire plan, um that there would be a connector from Kiki's House of Righteous Music down to Sycamore A. They also spoke that they would have to um make a roundabout at the end, the far end down towards the apartments, the Woods Edge apartments. They would be making a roundabout and that their plan was at that point in time that they would do a sidewalk only on that roundabout and that would provide appropriate safe streets access. I wish I had had that documented because at that point in time, this had full approval of everyone in the neighborhood that we talked to. We need the road improved. We've been paying the taxes for a long time. It was a really big surprise when we even saw the first draft plan to see there were sidewalks. So, it definitely felt like a bait and switch then. I'm I'm very concerned with the fact that things changed between the TC and the Board of Public Works. Um, that was either an oversight or someone hadn't gotten the plan done or worse. I don't like to surmize what it was, but in any case, I don't think it was appropriate. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Thank you. I have no other alders in queue with questions, so I think you're good. Thank you. [laughter] [gasps] All right. Uh then the next item that we have uh registered wishing to speak on is item 70 approving a certified survey map of property owned by RE Supper Club LLC and Daniel R and Heidi Alfini located at 456 to 4514 Verona Road in district 10 with one registrant wishing to speak Paul Sland of district excuse me district 5. Do we have Paul? You should be able to unmute yourself. >> Thank you for the opportunity to share just a couple of thoughts with you about this site. I think there's two ways of looking at it. The first is to examine it as it is, as is proposed, where basically the entire site is surrounded by the Home Depot parking lot and the intersection of two of the busiest state highways in Wisconsin. From the standpoint of neighborhoods and children, while you could argue that the Eugen's Markets nearby, that you've got a clothing store and household supplies at Goodwill, uh, a hardware store, obviously at Home Depot, it's a pretty horrendous site. I'd like you to think about it in terms of your own districts, in your own neighborhoods, and reverse the thought. And now take that highway and that parking lot and drop it adjacent to any residential building in your district, any single family home, the tallest, densest residential facility that may be in your district. And I think you can see the magnitude as to why this site is so unacceptable. Over the last couple years, there's a couple of us who have been concerned about the massive resoning legislation that's taken place, not in terms of its entirety, but in terms of some of the specifics. We were accused of being uh having a nimbi attitude. Well, this is not in my neighborhood. Uh and it shouldn't be in anybody's neighborhood. This is the kind of consequence of making decisions without looking at the total context. If you examine it from the standpoint of accessibility to quality child care, accessibility to the kind of retail, accessibility to neighborhood facilities, public services, it's badly wanting to put it mildly. I could keep repeating what's wrong with it. This is a mistake the city's made in the past. There have been other neighborhoods dis >> about 30 seconds left >> that should have been uh kept commercial manufacturing which were turned into residential with unfortunate consequences for the residents and the city. Thank you. >> Thank you. Any questions for the registrant on this item? Seeing none. And that is it for public comment today. And we'll go on to item 11 which is legisar 9 0227 approving plan specifications and a schedule of assessments for MacArthur Road Larsson Court, MacArthur Court and Sycamore Avenue Assessment District 2026 in District 3. On item 11, President Vidor a motion please move to adopt. >> Is there a second? >> Second. moved and seconded to adopt item 11. Let's start with uh any questions for staff. Alder Madison, questions for staff. >> Yes, thank you. It um let me give it get it together here. Sorry. Um I just want to ask if you can give us an overview of um item number 11 to help me understand both the speakers, you know, like make sense of the speaker's comments more. So, can you show it with a map? We have the city engineer here. >> Good evening and everyone and thank you alder for the question. I do have an image here of the proposed plans for the project. So this is the area of the Sycamore MacArthur Larson etc reconstruction project. So we have East Washington Avenue up in this very top left corner up here and North Stoen Road here and Menota Street. So it involves MacArthur from East Washington Avenue all the way to the south end, Sycamore Avenue from MacArthur to Menota Street, Larsson Court from MacArthur over to the west end and MacArthur Court from MacArthur A uh to the end along with um realigning and kind of reconstructing this pedestrian connection between MacArthur Court and Ellenwood Drive. So broadly speaking, this is a full street reconstruction project. So that includes replacement of all the pavement, the gravel base for the pavement, installation of curb and gutter where there is not any right now, and installation of sidewalks uh currently proposed for both sides of MacArthur Avenue, both sides of MacArthur Court leading up to this pedestrian connection and on one side of Larsson Court. This work also includes replacement of the sanitary sewer main, the water man and installation of new storm sewer uh to facilitate drainage uh as well as replacing the sewer laterals which are owned by the individual property owner from the new main up to the property line. And then the special assessments associated with the reconstruction project follow our standard assessment policy which includes assessment for the asphalt pavement for the new street. uh 50-50 split between the city and the property owners for driveway apron replacement. And then the city pays 75% of the cost of the sewer lateral replacement with the owner paying 25% of the costs. And there are no special assessments associated with the curbing gutter or the sidewalk work. Um I think that's a quick broad overview. Happy to answer any more specific questions anyone may have. >> Yep. And just uh one more quick follow-up question. Um, one of the speakers mentioned po they were informed in I think a Zoom meeting or a virtual meeting, but there weren't um, postcards or a notification about other parts of the process. I'm not sure if you were heard all the questions, but can you just answer that part or respond to that? >> Yeah, certainly. So, kind of our standard mailings for any any project similar to this would be a postcard prior to the initial publicformational meeting on the project and then also a formal letter being mailed to all residents in the project prior to the board of public works public hearing uh similar to this evening as well as another mailing that goes out prior to the council hearing. So, prior to going to the board of public works, there would have been a mailing sent out at least 10 days in advance of that meeting uh that included information on the public hearing as well as some pretty detailed information on the the scope of the project as well. >> Thank you. >> And a copy of that as well as a aid notorized affidavit of that mailing going out is attached to the legisar file too. >> Thanks. I think I have other questions but I'll wait to come back. >> Thank you, Alder. Alder field questions. >> Thank you, mayor. Thanks for joining us, Jim. Um, I'm wondering given the discussion about sidewalks and sidewalk geometry, if you can share at what point the design for sidewalk depth from the curb will be final given that I know it's still in flux. We're pretty close right now. Um, it does vary a little bit as we continue to refine design and really complete the 3D design work and setting grades and then comparing that to existing trees and working through a city forestry. Um, so really the final final is probably not closer until we have like a 90% set done which is usually 2 to 3 weeks prior to bidding the project. Um ideally we you know target an 8 to 10 foot standard terrace depth from the curbon gutter. Uh this provides good space for tree plantings but also all the other purposes that the terrace serves. Be it for snow storage, leaf collection, brush collection, garbage cart placement and good separation for pedestrians from vehicles on the street too. Um but we do vary that a little bit as we refine that design to protect those existing trees especially larger mature city canopy trees. >> So that final design will minimize tree impacts. >> Yes certainly. Right now we I think we have three planned tree removals of city street trees associated with this project and we don't anticipate any more than that unless of course something happens during construction that is um unanticipated. How about So, I know there's one property with a driveway that is pretty short. Um the house was built pretty close to the right ofway back in the day. Um and that the board of public works was grappling with this a little bit because the depth of sidewalk in that part of the project determines whether somebody can park in their driveway. Is that also going to be a factor in the eventual designs? >> Yes, to a certain extent. I believe the property you're referring to is on the corner of MacArthur A and MacArthur Court. >> Yeah. >> Um >> unfortunately their driveway is off of MacArthur Court. Any minimized terrace depth there probably would still result in the sidewalk being quite close to their garage and limiting driveway parking access. Um so we are exploring alternative options including finding ways to provide some on street parking in that location too. Um, I wanted to ask about the 3900 block of Sycamore and some testimony we've heard that residents have paid assessments for improvements in this area before not too long ago. What can we do to avoid double charging for similar work? So, I have in prior to kind of scheduling this project and leading into the board of public works uh presentation, we do a bit of research to kind of figure out when we have records of when the street was last done. And the most recent work that we could find for the 3900 block, I believe, was in the early 1960s when there was some resurfacing work done and some work on curbon gutter and sidewalks. And at that time that probably would have involved some special assessments for at least curbon gutter and sidewalk work. But since that time I was unable and staff were unable to come up with any other records involving special assessments to properties along that block. It's entirely possible that since that time because there is existing sidewalk work under our sidewalk program. We maybe had some special assessments for past sidewalk replacements, but that's not something that we assess for uh currently. >> And so, one more on that 3900 block, the underground utility work, gutters, sewer laterals, does all of that need to be updated as well given the age of the infrastructure and the rest of the neighborhood or does does staff have a record of replacements being made there more recently given the possibility of work in the '60s? Uh all of the utilities in that area seem to be of the same vintage as the rest of the streets in the area. So we are planning on replacements, too. >> Okay, that's all for now. Thank you. >> Thank you, Alder. Alder Okovitz. >> Thank you, Mayor. Um Jim, I was wondering if you could expand on our sidewalk assessment policy. I'm I'm looking at the uh I think it's the Board of Public Works document and they show that the owner pays 0% for sidewalk replacement. And is that also true for net new sidewalks? >> That is also true for any new sidewalks. >> Okay. So, >> essentially no assessments for sidewalks um >> except for in some pretty specific rare instances. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Alder. Alder Figuro. >> Thank you, Mayor. Um Jim, what um policy governs the sidewalks on the city of Madison today? >> Ultimately that comes back to our complete green streets design guide. >> So the complete green streets um guide um governs governs the the sidewalk um designs. Um, that explains why on the on the transportation presentation and questionnaire, we don't really ask about sidewalk placements because that's already part of the guide. Correct. >> That is correct. >> How old is this policy? >> Think 10 years old. >> Three or four years. >> Three or four years old. >> Three or four years old. And then um following up with um um the elers's question regarding the cost of of assessment for sidewalks. Um that one is is it also a recent policy or an older policy? >> That is a recent policy change as well. Uh that was updated around the same time as the complete green streets guide was was put in place. So uh my last question during the meeting engagements, community pims, um transportation and all the other meetings in between um was the complete green street program and the sidewalk um assessment changes discussed and explained to the con to the constituents? >> Yes, it was. >> Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you aller other questions. Um um my notes have been >> Can you pull the mic down towards you? Just pull it down so folks can hear you. There you go. >> Is that good? >> Yes. Thank you. yourself. So, um, some of the notes have been asked and answered, but the one that I did circle was the, uh, comment that the registered speaker had, um, of bait and switch. And so, could staff speak to how the um, the registrant felt that there was a bait and switch and not information that should have come forth. Could you help me with that? Yeah, that's an excellent question. Thanks, Alder. Uh, so this in particular relates to, I believe, the 3900 block of Sycamore Avenue. Uh, when the project went before the transportation commission, uh, the draft plan that was presented to the commission was based around street geometry and layouts of proposed sidewalks, locations to and from. Um, and as part of that there, we only showed the more or less the existing curb gutter on the 3900 block of Sycamore Avenue. Uh, which was because we were not proposing any street geometry changes there. Uh, which was what falls under the purview of the transportation commission. However, since refining some of the street design, we looked more at the condition of some of the utilities and the condition of the curbon gutter and leading into the board of public works um which has a broader purview over the entire scope of the project. We did update the plans to reflect some of the changes that the speaker had mentioned. So there was a change in the plans between the draft that was presented to the transportation commission and what was to the board of public works and that was more related to some more information that we had and also related to the specifics of the plans that were being presented for the purpose of the the discussion at each of those bodies. And then this change was reflected in the mailing that went out. I thank you for that clarification because I sit on the transportation commission and I just wanted to make sure that that doesn't linger out there a bait and switch because that's a term that does not sit well. Thank you for the clarification that is going forth. >> Thank you aller. >> Thank you mayor. Um and Jim, any changes regarding the addition of sidewalks on say both sides of the street as opposed to one side of the street that would not change would that change the special assessment that the a resident would receive? >> It would not change special assessment. >> And then follow-up question regarding the assessments themselves. Have all recipients of of the notifications been informed of ways in which they can pay for the assessment over time? Assistance, in other words, um of how and the various means by which our a resident impacted by this assessment can pay for the work that's being done. I don't believe they haven't been informed of all opportunities just yet. And I think some of that information comes out following uh if and when the council would adopt the project that then the finance department sends out some more information about the special assessment becoming official uh with some additional information on on [clears throat] payment options. >> Could you review if you have that information handy what some of those payment options are? If if if you do if you do I just ask >> there are a couple of options. Um so one that is part of the board of public works recommendation coming to common council is to extend the payback period for the special assessments on the project. Uh standard payback period is 8 years and the board of public works recommendation was to extend that payback period for this project to 15 years. And then outside of that, I believe the community development division has a special assessment loan program that assists with uh property owners that qualify for the program to to pay the special assessment to >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Alder. Alder Figuro questions. Um yes and thank you Elder McKini for I didn't write down that question but um I follow up on that. Um the changes that happened between transportation and public works did that in did that include sidewalks? >> It did not. It was related to a block that already has existing sidewalk. Okay. It involved updating the curb and gutter replacement limits and some driveway apron replacements. >> All right. Um c can you um just again for for the record, can you elaborate about the city processes on sending out um notices for public hearings? >> It's like a common process, but can you explain how that works? >> Yes. So, a minimum of 10 days prior to the public hearing, uh staff will prepare mailin to be sent out that includes information on the project, information on the assessment policy that's included with that project as well with the estimated cost of the special assessments to each individual property owner. And then prior to putting that in the mail, we do have an affidavit that is notorized indicating that this indeed was sent out to all property owners along the project. And then that mailing goes out to all the property owners in advance of the public hearing. And that goes for both the public hearing before the board of public works as well as the public hearing before the common council. >> Thank you Jim. >> Thank you all. Aler field questions. >> Yeah Jim, one final question. Do you have a rough figure of about how what proportion of the cost of a project like this is borne by the city versus what percentage would be borne by local assessments? >> It can vary a little bit but on I would say generally the city pays at least 90% of the project cost with 10% of it being a a special assessment. >> And did that change when the city stopped assessing for sidewalks? Is this a higher percentage for the city now? >> No. Um because we also are now assessing for types of projects that we previously did not assess for. Namely, just kind of your more run-of-the-mill resurfacing projects. >> Okay. >> Because we've kind of shifted from assessing for curbon gutter and sidewalks to assessing more for the street pavement >> pavement. Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you, Alder. Alo quitz. >> Thank you, mayor. Um, a couple more questions, Jim. Um, how long after this project would we realistically have another project of the scale that could include sidewalk improvements? [sighs] That's a great question. And I would say we have one to two of these types of projects every year. >> Uh, so probably be seeing another one pretty soon. >> Okay. I meant more for this location. How long it takes? >> Oh, for this location, um 75 years, 100 years. >> Okay. Um sidewalk improvements, are they going to be ADA compliant, including uh tactile pads and curb cuts? >> Yes, they will. >> Okay. Um and then I I have a question, I think, for the attorney. Um I guess could you provide like a brief overview of what a special assessment is and what authority we have for it? Um there was some talk about including in the EA uh comments that we all received on uh the benefits that need to be provided to the homeowners and >> well in general special assessments are authorized under state law. We have to follow, you know, notice procedures, uh, make sure that the special assessments are consistent with the cost of the project or based on the cost of the project. Um, I'm not sure if you have any specific questions other than that. >> No, I'll just leave it there. >> Thank you, Alder. Alder Figuro, >> one more question very quick, maybe a follow up with to this one, but are assessments when when the person gets a bill for do the people the person gets a bill for these dollar amount and sometimes they're a lot of money or um or do they have choices available to pay the bill? >> Jim can probably answer that better than I can what the options are for payment. >> That's my last question. Promise >> I'll take that one. Um, so there is a final assessment bill that comes out typically the year after the project. So for this specific project, we'll do construction in 2026, assuming it gets approved. And then the actual assessment bill would come out in the summer of 2027. And at that time, property owners would have the ability to pay in one lump sum with no interest by October 31st of that year. or that then rolls onto the tax bill and kind of starts going through the installment process, which does come with interest. And then they could either carry that through um you know, theoretically with the 15-year installment payment uh that was recommended by the Board of Public Works or they could pay it off quicker than that um to depending upon their financial situation as well to limit the the interest um payment that they would include over time. Alder mayor questions. >> Uh thank you mayor. Uh Jim, what would be the impact of delaying this project to allow for further uh public comment and discussion? >> There's a couple of pieces. So I think Alderfield as well as some of the uh registrants tonight have pointed out that this is a project that is needed in this area that the infrastructure is in poor condition. Uh it is a project that we delayed already. It was originally scheduled for 2025 and we delayed it to 2026 um due to some of the complexity but also uh due to staff ability to get the project out too and and prepare for all this detailed design work. So delaying it would you know just further involve additional operating costs to continually patch the streets. Um, every year that we leave the sewers out here without getting replaced, we run the risk of possibilities of a emergency failure or a backup. Um, and it also could complement or complicate a little bit about our bidding schedules, too. We try to spread projects out um over the course of the year, not only for our internal needs, but also for contractors to be able to plan and bid and uh keep everything competitive within the bidding market, too. Thank you. >> Thank you, Alder. Alder Pritchette, questions. >> Yes. Thank you, Mayor. Uh could you tell me what's the shelf life, you know, of a sidewalk gutter assessment? Uh you did, one of the speakers did mention, you know, that they had got an assessment and then nothing was done and then it started all over again. So, what's the shelf life? And then the second, >> can you move your microphone a little bit closer, Jim? >> Sorry about that. Thank you, >> Jim. Did you get that question? >> I did. Uh, so there is not currently a reminder a special assessment for curbing gutter and sidewalks. Um, so that is not something that would be reassessed at any point down the road. Um, with regards to the pavement, now this would be assessed as a reconstruct uh because that's what this street needs. And then there would probably be in the maybe 30-year time frame an assessment related to like a minor resurfacing project which is a far lower special assessment than what the reconstruct would be. And then somewhere in that 75 year time frame there would maybe be another special assessment relating to the reconstruction. So the second question then is this you know should the current owner of the property decide to move uh [clears throat] who bears responsibility if once that property is sold because you did mention like 30 years something like that for an assessment. So if they move uh who bears responsibility for a payment? >> So special assessment acts as a lean on the property. So at the time of the sale, it is something that the existing owner and the buying um folks would have to work out at closing and the special assessment would have to be paid by the at the time of the property transfer. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Alder. >> I have no other alders in the queue with questions. So thank you very much, Jim. >> [gasps] >> Um, it has been moved and seconded. Is there discussion on item 11? Alder Field. >> Thank you, Mayor. So, for some background context from my colleagues on the council, um, I wanted to point out to that the streets in this area have some of the lowest pavement rating scores in the city. Um, I have heard a lot of complaints about residents um, frustrated with the muddy ruts and the puddles that form every spring reliably um, because people can park off of the street due to lack of a curb and proper storm water handling. Um, all this in mind, when I joined the council in 2023, I was pretty excited to learn that a solution was coming that this project at that time was planned for this year 2025. Last year when this was proposed to be delayed due to other competing priorities and work taking place in 2025, when I'd shared that with neighborhood leadership, I learned quite a bit of frustration from including one of the speakers tonight about the delay. So I pushed back hard um and managed to secure this and work to keep it in the budget for 2026 so far at least. Um so given all of that, I continue to feel very strongly that we and as we've heard from a few speakers that this project is long overdue. I think it represents an enormous investment by the city in this neighborhood, an underinvested neighborhood. And I wanted to point out that since the city pays for by far and away the largest share of the project, that means that we are all paying for these improvements to happen in other neighborhoods through our property taxes, and that includes residents in the Mayfair Park neighborhood. So, I think it would be a real shame for these homeowners to continue paying to make those upgrades in other neighborhoods without making upgrades and improvements to their own. Um, I understand that the proper and final sidewalk designs are in the works still, and we've heard a little bit about what the final decision-m steps will look like, um, as guided by policy. And so, I look forward to seeing where those have compromises built into the plans. I'm encouraged by the fact that they are being done while sensitive to tree impacts and local needs. Um, and that it's not going to satisfy everybody. um that that's just not within the realm of possibility here. So I um ask for my colleagues support for the project and encourage discussion. Thank you. >> Thank you, Alder. Alder Figuro. Thank you, Mayor. Um, I just I think this is a great opportunity to remind us all to pre to um get um to take time to refresh ourselves on the policies that we most people on this council already approve specifically with the complete green streets. So, if you haven't really re reviewed that policy, please take a look at it. This is going to be I mean I'm I I'm having some other projects in my neighborhood that are similar to this. And at the end of the day, the importance of the discussion of sidewalks is being managed through that policy. So it's not a question of of um it's really not a question for per debate. It's based on the on the policy that we the council approved and it takes into consideration things such as trees. But um the main concern of that policy is for the safety of the people, not only the people that are living there today, but for the people that are going to be living there for the next 30 years. The people that are coming into that neighborhood that will perhaps [clears throat] need an ad an ADA um sidewalk for kids to be able to be um safe on their own neighborhoods and also for people who don't want to leave, people that wants to age at home, they also had the opportunity to have sidewalks that are safe for them to stay in the neighborhoods. So sidewalks are super important for the entire city of Madison and I understand that since day one on this job back in since I started here it's been a controversy but I think the city has make a lot of effort to ensure that sidewalks are not a burden on the rest of the community. So that's what we in addition to creating creating the um complete green streets policy that again we approved um we also put a policy in place where we don't charge assessments for sidewalks. So I definitely will be supporting this project and most likely any other project that comes around related to sidewalks. So um and and you know no sidewalks but complete because we don't do sidewalks everywhere. We do sidewalks only in major street projects. So it is something that I feel very strong about the safety of the people there today but the safety of the people from this is an investment of 30 30 to 40 years into the future and that's how I I see it and I definitely support the project. Thank you. >> Thank you Alder Alder Evers. >> Thank you mayor. I will be voting in favor of this. And I I just want to make a a comment that sidewalks seem to be the third rail of local politics. And for this alter when I was first elected um it there was a sidewalks project that was very controversial but I found that staff was uh bent over backwards to accommodate the the needs and interests of residents particularly with respect to trees and were able to guide the sidewalks themselves around the trees so that trees were were not taken down unnecessarily. I I also um understand that folks don't like to shell out for additional payments when they're already paying high property taxes. But it is important to remember that 90% of this investment is covered by the city and by your fellow citizens and residents throughout the entire city. So we are all paying to maintain our infrastructure and these sidewalks do provide a means for children and for those who are uh disabled and wheelchairs etc to be able to get around and and that's critically important. Uh we we simply can't have functioning neighborhoods without this. So, as unpleasant as it may be to to have to pay for these improvements when a road is reconstructed, it's absolutely necessary if we're going to move forward as a city. Thank you. >> Thank you, Elder. Alder Yugare. [snorts] >> Thank you, mayor. Um certainly add my endorsement to the importance of uh the overall policy that this body has set with regard to complete green streets uh and the importance of sidewalks for connectivity and pedestrian and biking safety. uh as a member of the board of public works that approved this project uh after extensive discussion just to point out it was mentioned here earlier but uh after considering everything we did take an action that the board of public works does not always take which was to provide for a 15-year payback uh to help out those given all the aspects of this neighborhood that they might find helpful. And the other point, and it was mentioned, is that the motion of approval at the board of public works also recognized that there was one particularly difficult lot. Uh this was mentioned by staff earlier, and I was delighted to hear that they're continuing to work uh to try to find a solution that's uh more appropriate to the conditions that are there. I'll be voting for this. Thank you. >> Thank you, Alder. Alder Okowitz. >> Thank you, Mayor. Um I won't reiterate everything, but um the reason I ask about how long it would be until there's another reconstruction project, which uh engineer Wolf mentioned would be probably about 75 years is that we aren't just building this infrastructure for the people who live here right now. We're building it for our kids and our grandkids. Um and you know it has been has been said having ADA compliant uh accessibility is very important especially um especially in places where it doesn't already exist. You know I take it for granted downtown but um it's it's so important to increase that connectivity and to enable people to be able to walk around their neighborhoods. >> Thank you Alder. I have no other alders in the queue wishing Alder Harrington to McKenna. >> Thank you, Madame Mayor. I just had to I sit on the transportation uh commission and the quality of the work that they do on that commission is excellent. And so they look at all aspects of not only what is currently there, but what is the future there? So that's why I landed on the term bait and switch because they are very thorough and to pass something on to the board of public works means that they have done their due diligence and just be assured that the transportation committee um looked at the ordinance, looked at the um everything related to this project and passed it on. Thank you and I will be supporting it. >> Thank you Alder. Now I have no other alders in the queue wishing to speak. Uh so what's before us is item 11. It has been moved and seconded. Is there objection to recording a unanimous vote in favor of item 11. Seeing no objection, we'll record unanimous vote in favor of item 11. That will take us on to item 70, which is legisar 900017 approving a certified survey map of property owned by RE Supper Club LLC and Daniel R and Heidi Lfinky located at 456 to 4514 Verona Road in district 10. On item 70, President Vidor a motion, please >> move to adopt. >> Second. >> Moved and seconded to adopt item 70. Are there questions for staff on item 70? >> Alder Evers. >> Yeah, I Megan. Um, this certified survey map. Can you distinguish this from what we already voted on previously? I I believe we have already. This item came up already. >> Thanks, Alder Evers. Um the item that's in front of the council tonight is for the certified survey map for um two parcels at 456 to 4514 Verona Road to be combined into one parcel. Um so I think we had a similar question at our meeting on October 7th. Um this is purely a question about whether the change to the boundaries of the land should be approved. um and uh have met under the staff's determination have met all of the standards for doing so. Um separately, I think related to the comments that you heard in the public forum, the plan commission previously approved a conditional use request to construct a mixeduse building at this location. Um this is a project that the plan commission thoroughly reviewed against its standards for conditional uses and approved and ultimately um under our procedures was not boarded to the common council. That's something that's vested with the plan commission. So the item that's in front of you tonight again is just for that uh change to the land itself. >> Thank you. >> Thank you Alder. Are there other questions for staff? Seeing none, it's been moved and seconded. Is there discussion on item 70? Seeing no discussion, then it's been moved and seconded. Is there any objection to recording a unanimous vote in favor of item 70? Seeing no objection, we'll record that vote. That will take us then to the end of our agenda. Are there any additional announcements or introductions of items from the floor? Seeing none else. >> Uh oh. Other figure calls Muertos this weekend at East High School. If I say this every year, it's the best show in town. It's super cheap and it's quite a performance. So, if you haven't ever been at East High School, the others event, check it out. It's I think starts at 2 o'clock. It's amazing. Thank you, Alder. Seeing no other announcements, uh, Alder O'Brien, it's your turn. >> Move to adjourn. >> Second. >> Moved and seconded to adjurnn. Is there any objection to recording unanimous vote in favor of adjournment? Seeing no objection, we stand adjourned.