regarding the budget so I will turn it over to  city manager Bob Le thank you mayor um you have   been workshopping since January on the budget  and uh we're now to the point where uh some of   the macro issues we talked about are going to  um help guide us in terms of some more micro   decisions that we're looking at um what I'm  going to do is um allow Elizabeth galtry to   address um the big picture first um where we  think we're going to be financially um at the   end of uh our three fiscal years that we're  looking at and then talk about um strategies   on moving us forward towards a balanced budget  now I will remind you you will be um eventually   approving a 2026 budget but it's not you're  not formally adopting it so what we're trying   to do is show Trends and some suggested  strategies for getting us balanced in 26   formally you won't do that until next year at this  time but I think it's extremely important given   the financial situation that we're projecting  that you start to take some actions and give   us Direction on how we should move forward uh  to address the issues that will face in 26 and   Beyond so with that I'm going to turn it over to  Elizabeth to give you start with the background information good afternoon um so the out the  the outline for today a lot of that he's already   mentioned but I'm going to um as a city manager  mentioned we have had a lot of workshops um our   first one was in January and then we had them  every month through April we've skipped May and   we're back um back to this one in early June um if  you're joining us for the first time and are just   getting interested in the budget this year you can  find all those videos on YouTube um today in this   PowerPoint I will Prov provide some background on  Resident engagement is that has happened so far   and what's yet to come in the next month um and  that would be the budget simulator um and then   provide an overview of our financial Outlook and  then we have a number of tiered budget options in   a handout so um we'll go through those and really  um the idea behind that is for you to give us   feedback on what you would like to find out more  about what you'd like us to research or consider   um as we look toward next year's budget and then  of course we'll end with a calendar um as far as   resident engagement goes there was a community  survey last fall um and that resulted in um the   quadrants that we've been using this year there  were budget rant tables in January and March   that um used the quadrants as a taking off point  and then two social media events in April that   were focused on two areas in the magenta quadrant  Street Maintenance and crime prevention um then we   visited all of the dabs in May um and through all  of this feedback um we we've heard a variety of   voices and perspectives but I think that generally  um the feedback suggests that the things that are   priorities particularly in the magenta quadrant  resonate with residents um and that this framework   is um a good way of organizing the budget process  when it comes to priorities and how to spend our   time and our efforts um and then next the budget  simulator is launching this evening so um this is   something we've done in the past um and um well  here's the quadrants that we've used to guide   the budget process um and then I'll go into the  budget simulator in a bit um just as a reminder   um when it comes to the budget the general fund  budget most of it is Public Safety fire and police   is 59% of the budget and then when you look at how  what the budget is spent on most of it is salaries   and benefits and then the next largest slice is  is public works and utilities and about half of   that is for streets so when people talk about what  is a priority in this in the um Community survey   the the community survey residents priorities very  much aligns to how general fund the general fund   budget is allocated um and it's also important  to keep in mind that we're in a very service   heavy business um and employ employee costs are  usually about 3ar of the budget and they're the   fastest growing part of the budget so that  being the case when I show you the simulator   what you'll notice it's very difficult to balance  the budget in 2026 at this point without impacting   positions and without impacting those three  largest components of the general fund budget   as the city manager mentioned um the budget for  2025 isn't what we're focusing on today it's the   budget for 2026 um we're facing a structural  deficit and that's due in large that's due in   large part to two two elements one is Wages that  are growing much faster than revenues and then   also interest earnings are expected to decline  during this period um we're already this year year   to date um seeing some weakness in revenues um I  had mentioned in at least one previous Workshop   that franchise fees is a very very volatile  Revenue source and that was much higher um   due to commodity prices for natural gas and year  to dat um revenues for franchise fees for natural   gas are about a million and a half lower than  they were last year and then also sales tax   revenue year-to date is down about 1% Which is  less than half a million dollars but still um   not not not as ENC not not as encouraging as  it had been in the past so I'm we're already   seeing in in those results will be presented  to you in the second quarter report um that   the controller's office puts together so those  those trends that we've been talking about like   we're already starting to see those things happen  and we're not we're we're able to weather those   challenges right now because of Interest earnings  but as interest earnings decrease we we lose our   ability to weather those cyclical challenges  with some of those more volatile Revenue sources so I was jumping ahead of myself before  this is a screenshot of the budget simulator   so what you'll notice here is it shows um when  you get to the start screen the deficit in the   budget simulator is the same as the deficit that  you'll see in your handout the deficit of 12.9   million which is um the same is what we're  projecting is the deficit for 2026 at this   point and in the simulator we did things a little  bit differently this year than in the past so in   the past things were grouped by types of service  maybe parks and libraries were together or Public   Safety was together what we did this year that  was a little different and we'll see how it goes   is that we group Things based on the quadrants in  the community survey so this one as you can see   this is lower quality higher importance services  so you can decrease and increase those services   but in some of the other quadrants you can only  decrease Services um so I'm going to it's a little   awkward but I'm going to go over to show it to you  really quickly how it works so there's an intro screen and so for example let's say you wanted  to decrease Public Information Services and you   thought that was is going to balance the budget it  really doesn't get you very far at all so that's   what you'll notice as you move through it is back  to that pie chart that some of these Services um   are a larger part of the budget than others so  as you try to balance the budget um a person   would notice how difficult it is it is possible  to balance the budget using the simul simulator   but it is it's it's definitely not easy so um  um so here's the lower quality lower importance   quadrant um a user only has the ability in this  quadrant to decrease Services go back to lower   quality higher importance yes where is crime crime  prevention doesn't in our that's a really good   question so crime prevention in our accounting  like our divisions it's it's an embedded in police   the police department there's not a crime  prevention division per se so or would that   be in one of the four categories pardon where  would it show up I think Police Services is over   here and their options connect the the decreased  ones I know that the text definitely connects to   um community policing and crime prevention if  they were to have reduction in Staffing levels   that it would impact that service well that be  confusing as the magenta box if you go back to   lower quality higher importantance that tab on  the left right I understand yeah not everything   in those boxes is in the simulator because  additionally not everything in those boxes   is in the general fund so we did our best but  it's hard to translate everything into the simulator it's also the other weakness  of the simulator is it's really hard   to this is increasing and decreasing existing  services that already have budgets if we were   to say we were to consider a completely  new service for 2026 something we'd never   done before it doesn't lend itself to this tool  because this is only increasing and decreasing   so it has limited appli applicability  but I think it's still interesting I guess I'm going to add one more caveat to all  of this if you go to high quality High importance   I know that Police Services is first one because  the magenta box shows that crime prevention is the   number one thing that people want us to focus on  which is of low quality but High importance right   how will that also be I guess if you're going  to put it in police services will that also   have some comments regarding crime prevention it  does and the good news too about those those two   because they're both higher importance they  both have the decrease and increase options   does that make sense so you have the same the  same choices that you would if it were lower   quality or higher quality but yes the options  um relate to crime prevention so this one talks   about um more opportunities for positive police  interactions with Community more non- enforcement   contacts and I um from editing the reduction it  talks about response increased response time and   it also talks about how there would be less time  for um proactive proactive Patrol and Community engagement I can still edit the text um  to I guess be include more text about   Comm um not Community engagement  um crime prevention but that that's   where crime prevention mostly  is at this point would be in police so I I will speak for myself um because  again I've been showing this community survey   in community focusing on the magenta box and the  magenta box the number one thing is crime whether   it's reflected on the low quality High importance  in the survey or in the simulation somewhere in   the high quality High importance during Police  Services um that portion should in the very first   paragraph talk about crime prevention in some way  okay I I wonder if we can't move Police Services   to lower quality High importance because um I I  like the way the narrative works for the police   services because it's not just police officers it  does talk about proactive and reactive Services   um and if you look at the quadrants in the Orange  Police Services is right at the margin so I don't   we're not really fudging too much I mean if  if you take those two and and average them out   they'll they'll still be a magenta so I think  I don't want to confuse residents that do this   and if you do police services in one spot and  crime prevention another we've had a hard time   getting people to fully understand that it's in  fact what we're going to bring forward to you is   a comprehensive program is going to be involving  uh crime prevention and crime reduction so it's   a combined strategy as we go forward so I don't  have a problem with putting police services in   with lower quality and higher importance moving  that and so that'll I think it correlates with the   survey results so I just feel like it's again it's  not placed in the correct quadrant at the current   moment based off of the results from there okay  and then what I will do is I think that we were   planning on launching this immediately after  this meeting but I'll Place pause on that and   get this edited and it moved around and then we  can launch it tomorrow does that sound okay yes   all right and then while we're at it um so these  are the lower quality higher important so Street   repair and keep in mind that street repair is  something that's in the CIP and in the operating   budget and so this is the operating budget side  of street repair which is more of the day-to-day   work so Economic Development public information  probation monitoring and municipal court so   there's a few things in magenta that aren't  here just because they're not in the general   fund I do have one quick question this slide  particular so under Street repair um would that be   different than Street development so our dirt  streets program that fall under Street repair   because it doesn't look like it I mean Grant I  can't click on yeah you yeah you bet um so Street   um their street repair the operating budgets um  role with dirt streets is the maintenance of them   um the paving of dirt streets is something that's  in the CIP okay so SE thank you yeah it's a lot   so over in um higher quality higher importance  police will move out of this one but we have fire   services and the decrease options in fire Services  match what's in your handout well the um the 10%   fire Services option in the simulator matches  what's in your hand out um and so some of them   do there's a lot of option options um explain  what you mean um so some of the options in the   simulator don't always connect to the handout  oh does that make sense so there's a few options   in here about Park maintenance but they don't  necessarily connect to the same dollar amount or   the same change in strategy but the fire Services  one does so it just the numbers aligned well um and then these are the lower  quality lower importance which I   believe are green and so the  only options available here reductions and then rounding  things out is the blue um and   again these are the only options  excuse me are reductions here so so will the results of what people I guess submit will they get captured  and provided to us yes so I the plan at this   point is to have the simulator open through  August 8th which is when you have the evening   budget hearing and so I think that will give us  add I think that to me the timing lined up nicely   that we're getting in person feedback and then  finishing our online feedback it also gives us   plenty of time to pitch this to a lot of community  groups that we've been in contact with and people   through the the roundtables for them to share  it um and then I think that will give us enough   time to get the results put together and to share  at there's um a workshop I think it's or a budget   hearing I think August 13th so it's a quick  turnaround but we should be able to share then   the one caution that we should talk about right  now at the front end of all this is no one tool   should be relied on as being the determining  factor for your decision right it's a matter of   how much feedback can we get you from different  sources to help you in your decision making um   because this is not a scientific survey and  so if a a group decided they really wanted to   stuff The Ballot Box for one issue they can do  that um the the citizen survey on the other hand   is a scientific sample um and so there's a little  more reliability in that regard but you're you're   going to have what we get from Community groups  what we get from dabs I mean the whole engagement   process and I ju again I just wanted to point  that out that this alone doesn't shouldn't be   what we rely on solely yeah and if anything I it  is not easy to balance the budget using the budget   simulator just because of the deficit that we're  facing um if anything I think it's a great tool   for education and awareness in the community of  what it takes to balance the budget and also is   a good taking off tool as we meet move into the  next budget cycle so we've had people who refuse   to balance the budget and just they're then in  the narrative section they say raise taxes so   I mean it's not everybody will get to a balanced  budget it'll this year especially it'll be very   difficult and what do you all feel about the  comments are you interested in getting comments   just mention that that's no in the simulator it's  okay okay yeah I'm open to seeing um comments as   well okay very good yeah it's so funny to have  a workshop in this room because it doesn't feel   as it's like you kind of need to get used to  just talking such a big room so and that's I   mean that's the survey that's the simulator in  a nutshell and um I worked with Corey BTA um in   January to generate interest in the budget round  and we had a lot of people who had interest and   people who came and I think that could be a good  starting a good taking off point for sharing it   with Community groups or newsletters or things  like that um and I'm always kind of surprised   when people ask me when the simulators coming back  like it's kind of intriguing but people enjoyed it   so Elizabeth yes and council member Johnson and  I had the privilege of speaking in front of some   students yesterday and one of the questions they  asked is what's our public favorite like public   engagement um activity and I said the budget  simulator cuz I really do I love this can you   remind us how many people participated in it last  year oh good we didn't use it last year or the   year before the last time that's an easy answer  um I cannot let's not shoot for that number this   year right zero yeah no um I cannot remember  but I can get back to you but I would say it   was maybe around 3,000 which is good yeah it it  doesn't sound overwhelming but if you imagine a   line of 3,000 people lined up to get to the podium  that is a and it takes a minute to do right I mean   somebody has to kind of sit down and navigate  through the system so I appreciate anybody in   the community who's willing to be invested in  to to take their time to learn more about our   budget yeah and it it takes time but then we did  we one of the reasons why we selected this tool   is I mean I was moving these things back and  forth with a mouse but they're pretty easy to   do on the screen of a tablet or a smartphone just  to move instead of typing in numbers on your phone   which is really difficult so thank you you're  welcome and so we're GNA have it open for quite   a while this year about two months so there's  just I feel like more opportunities for that   kind of group um roll out and engagement than  we've had one year I think we only had it open   for two or three weeks so that's the story  on the simulator you ready to go back okay I asked how in previous um iterations of this  simulator did we communicate U with city of   witcha residents besides local media um on the  opportunity the opportunity of participant yeah   um I know that we've leveraged the district  newsletters in the past um social media um I   think that our timing might have been a little  different and we did it we um had it available   when we presented it at dab meetings um those are  some ways I know that I've also used it at some   meetings um that are outside the budget process  for example leadership wiah when they have their   government day we use that one year just to give  them a taste of what the budget is like there's   always room for more though and students are a  great idea it might be an interesting concept   too and I don't know just brainstorm off the top  of my head but at the LI at the libraries where   people use our computers if maybe there could even  be some sort of little you know something stuck up   on the screen saying hey while you're here because  it might be a way to engage different voices and   people who might nor not normally be as aware of  it or is inclined to take it but while they're   there maybe and especially if they're there to  get away from the elements you know the Heat   or whatever maybe they take a few minutes to let  us know their thoughts yeah there's moments when   I realize maybe I was smarter before Co happened  because I'm pretty sure we did that in the past yes no there's just lots and and you know since  it's open for two months we can continue to build   on that so please share if you have other ideas  or places um or just even maybe um somebody who's   involved with a community group and wants to take  it on the road but it's not very confident we can   confident we can always set up a teams meeting  and get them going things like that so we have   about I think nine weeks that it's going to  be open so lots of opportunity to engage more   people so it's a neat tool all right ready for  what's next okay so U this is this is nothing   new but um in case you're just joining us um  this year as I mentioned we are expecting um   another year of strong interest earnings and that  being the case that we'll have funds available for   some one-time um Community survey priorities and  that we're also spending our time positioning for   the next three years um in 2025 um the budget  is nearly balanced um that'll be a period of   service stability but at the same time that'll  be a transition transitionary period where we   be working on prioritizing innovating and  implementation of some of the concepts or   maybe all of the concepts in this handout and  other things that we'll be working through um   with staff in the community so it's going to be a  transition period we have a lot of work ahead and   then in 2026 and future years um that's when we'll  have service realignment that'll be necessary to   address these structural issues in the budget I  mean it is is just a fact that interest earnings   will be decreasing um and that because salaries  and benefits are such a large portion of our our   budget that we do have structural issues that  need to be addressed Elizabeth um when do we   um in our projections when are we projecting  the interest rates to be cut and to what what   uh percentage our way projecting that yeah  um Mark is right behind me so how lucky am   I well that's a great question uh unfortunately  I'm not goingon to answer it directly uh but uh   we we're fed Watchers we are not fed Pro  prognosticators so uh as you know originally   they were going to do four Cuts this year start  in March and then they were going to cut in June   and now we'll find out in a couple weeks but  the prognosis now is that they'll maybe cut   in September so our model is based on a decline  in interest rates because that seems to be what   everybody believes is going to happen the real  two key questions are how fast are they going   to decline and what's the terminal rate going to  be is a terminal rate going to be 2% 3% 2 and a   half% zero and how fast are they going a decline  so we have some scenarios which you'll see you're   about two slides ahead of Elizabeth actually we've  modeled several different scenarios a pessimistic   one an optimistic one and a moderate one and  the good news is our moderate forecast we think   uh is one we would recommend at this point and we  think we can increase our Revenue estimates based   on our moderate forecast which is to say now we  don't believe interest rates are going to drop   as fast as we did last year but as to when they're  going to start dropping and how far I really can't   answer that with any level of of certainty okay  yeah I just didn't know if we figured it into our   our projections and from what I've been reading  I think what is the 10th is the next fed meeting   they're saying there's probably not going to be  cuts and it's two or is it five and a quarter   to 5 and a half% right now yep yep so in our  projections are we are we projecting down to 2% is   that the well yeah one of my scenarios is 2% one  of them is 3% one of them 2 and a half% for the   terminal rate we're talking two three four years  out and I don't want to go into too much detail   but I I mean I'd be happy to share it with you but  I have models where I know where all my maturities   are and what I can reinvest in reinvestment Risk  is really the risk we're talking about here so   all right it's like predicting the weather  two years out so it's a challenge yeah thank you all right so on to the handout um this  handout is um a variation on a handout that   was prepared in 2020 um and we put the  concepts in that handout at the time in   a variety of different categories so tier zero  is technical adjustments um those are largely   things that are already occurring um tier one  are improve are some changes to cost recovery   and some process Improvement changes that um most  likely wouldn't impact Service delivery for the   end user um tier two is service level reductions  um these are in lower or lower Priority Services   or internally facing services and then tier  three is where things get the really difficult   decision- making happens um these are service  level reductions to higher priority Services   wage and benefit changes and um discussing  the the CIP and the the budget go together   so Capital Project funding and then finally  the use of reserves so um as I've mentioned   the 2025 budget is basically balanced what we're  talking about is 2026 um what we're looking for   is feedback on what kind of Concepts to pursue and  I have a timeline in the back um though the budget   is balanced there's still a lot to do to put it  together and and these are the kind of Concepts   that we would include in our transmittal  letter and budget issues they might not um   be itemized out in the budget at this point  because um they're still under development um   but we're looking for that sort of feedback today  to give us a head start um because these are these   are big issues and they take time to do in a way  that's thoughtful and um least impactful to the community um and here's um this is the PowerPoint  version of the table that's on page one of your um   of your handout um and so what you'll  see is that um until you get to tier   three um these Concepts don't result in  a balanced budget so um it's really hard   to balance this budget without making  difficult decisions and that's the same   thing people are going to realize  when they're working on the budget simulator so the tier zero technical adjustments  um interest earnings is the first concept there's   a table on page two of your handout um that is  a table that sums up what Mark was speaking of   um there is a lot of uncertainty in this area  but if we were to change our interest earnings   assumption in the budget from our base case that  we have in right now to a moderate Outlook that   would improve um that would get us closer  to being balanced so that's that concept   so there's really and we and this is  something that we continually we're   continuously evaluating and I think if nothing  else um reporting this table shows that there   is some uncertainty when it comes to interest  earnings and we'll continue to keep an eye on   that um the fuel contingency is exactly that um  we added that to the budget when there was more   volatility and gasoline and diesel prices that  wasn't we didn't need to use it last year um   budgets in departments for fuel were adequate  so that would be the elimination of that   contingency and then similarly there's a  snow and ice contingency that's budgeted   outside of departments um and that would be  eliminating that it wouldn't impact service   levels um but if there weren't enough budget in  the public works budget we would have to look   other places at your end and what well go ahead  man sure and what are those so it's 416 for fuel um could both of those get lowered slightly  to be to less magnitude yes that is exactly   um yes I said let's talk about issues but also  the magnitude of what we would include that is   another thing we're thinking about yes I  was wondering if maybe we could so are are   we talking about lowering it or eliminating  it entirely the contingency plans um so there   would be two options one would be to eliminate  the contingencies or the other option would be   to make the contingency smaller is there any  way we could combine the two contingencies   and then just give it a a pot of money and  see how it goes and then if we have to do a   budget adjustment mid year like we do on some  of our our items and feed some more money into   it yeah I that's something else we could look at  so and then Recreation um I put this in tier zero   because they're already working on improving  cost recovery for their Recreation programs so   I put it in tier zero um some of the other cost  recovery items are in tier one so that's why it's there could you explain that a little  more the so are we looking the The Hold   Steady on on subsidies for parks and rs yeah  they've already um we put together the budget   you know we put together a base budget and they  have um increased some of they have revised their   revenue estimates based on increasing their rates  if I if I can the park board has reviewed this and   there's a significant amount of discussion that  took place at the park borders if I remember   correctly using this model the cost pyramid and  the idea was to adjust rates for those who who   to be excuse me let me do it the other way to try  to maintain rates at an affordable rate for those   who could least afford our services so those  who are lowest income in our community or have   no other alternatives for recreational activities  or limited Alternatives we tried to keep the rates   low or have no fees for those services and then  as you go up the pyramid and you you start talking   about those who have better ability to pay they've  made adjustments and there was some discussion   and I don't remember if they if they enacted this  but there was even some discussion about services   that are Regional that having a two-tier system  and so that wstar residents would have a lower   fee than non-residents and I'm not sure if they  actually implemented that but there was discussion   so that gives you an idea of the philosophy that  they've been following so trying to keep summer   camps Square and make sure that we're not bumping  up Summer Camps or scholarship programs for them   but if they were they're very small increments  if I remember right yeah or another strategy   is maybe increasing rates for swimming lessons  but then having more scholarships through the   Red Cross program things like that so so on to  tier one there is a picture of the cost recovery   pyramid in your hand out I wish I had put it on  a slide um it's on page three this is something   that we talked about quite a bit um probably  during um the last recession um regarding cost   recovery um and the city manager just um summed  it up nicely but it's probably time to look again   at some of our services related to cost recovery  and just as a rule of thumb um for government or   general fund Services those governmental Services  we usually um aim for 50% cost recovery for services so um the first one is Cow Town cost  recovery um and that would probably I think   there's a relatively new director on board there  so this would take you know this would this is   for 2026 so there would be some planning involved  for the organization but some time for planning   for them um the second one one is naming rights  and Par at parks and cultural facilities so again   there's um some time to work on this but I think  um there's potential sounds like Elizabeth can are   you talking about um staff or or Council working  with for profit for public private Partnerships   similar to what we did at striker or what can  you explain what this means a little bit to me   thank you yes and no or no and yes okay so yes in  terms of similar to what we did with Striker but   not putting the burden on the council instead  we've been working with a consultant to look   at opportunities for sponsorships similar to  Striker and to give you an example um the Ice   Center has they've identified a number of funding  of sponsorship opportunities at the Ice Center   same at the Riverside Tennis Center and then the  consultant we would hire the consultant on a fee   basis to then find the sponsors and negotiate the  contracts okay but the council would approve the   list first of the facilities that we would look  at that was going to be my next question and then   my next question would be just curiosity about  the cost to hire the consultant because you know   they have to eat what they kill right they have to  be that's exactly right and that's built into the   projections okay thank you I I have a follow-up  question by the way is all going to come to you   in the future because we have a preliminary draft  of their report they need to finalize that I need   to get that to the council and then we need to  talk about going further well my the only quick   question is so projected over 2026 27 2028 would  be 1.5 million yes to those three years what do   we believe the full capacity if we need every  one of facilities like how many facilities is   this include the report I I I have to go back and  look but it almost double that so we're trying to   be conservative in what the um uh our ability or  success rate will be in the early years thank you   yeah I I I anticipate the uh dialogue around  this one I I think we got to look at it but I   also think we need to be mindful and make sure a  lot of our facilities are apply named for people   or places as well I'd hate to see uh Target uh  Watson Park or something along those lines so I   I look forward to chatting about this one it  could have a lot of potential for an archery range um so the next one is also related  to cost recovery um planning charges for   services recover about 20 less between 20 to 25%  of cost to deliver those services so that would   be looking at that um and those unlike planning  unlike Park fees those are set administratively um   um planning charges for services are approved  by the city council the next one is um Animal   Control has been something there's been um a lot  of dialogue about in the budget process um and   there was also um there's just over time there's  been decreasing dog licensing Revenue um there's   also a couple of positions that were added to  the budget a few years ago um for a pilot project   they've never had full Staffing so we haven't been  able to evaluate the effectiveness of that pilot   project so this concept which is very early would  be to consider um repurposing or redirecting some   positions to focus on dog licensing which would  improve cost recovery related to dog licensing   and then also potentially improve outcomes  related to animal safety so that is that one   but not cat licensing just talk licensing this  is hard enough um the next one is um something   that involves the finance department that would be  centralizing accounts payable um and by doing that   um that would result in some positions being  eliminated in departments and potentially but   positions being added to the finance department  but a smaller number of positions would be added   in the finance department then would be eliminated  in other departments um and there's some other   positive outcomes associated with this change um  particularly for our vendors that are mentioned   in the handout and any employees that would  eventually be lost due to the changes they   would be giving ample opportunity to find other  positions within the city yeah we have um in our   sorry in our HR policy IT addresses those types  of situations okay thank you you're welcome yeah   this is a new territory right that we went from  arpa to this um that's a great question um the   next one is paperless timekeeping um there are a  variety of different scenarios in departments for   timekeeping and many departments it's still paper  based um this would be moving us into paperless   timekeeping and it would meet timekeeping um more  um accurate and also could save staff time um and   then the following one is interesting um related  to the crime prevention discussion um there's   some work that's ongoing um doing an inventory of  current programs provided by the city of wiah and   those though the the alignment of those programs  to crime prevention and those outcomes and also   looking at um other best practices that could be  used to address crime prevention um the special   alcohol and drug prevention fund doesn't have  a tremendous amount of capacity but there could   potentially be capacity from that fund to  transfer into the general fund to offset   some of those costs that are related to  crime prevention in ways that combats   um alcohol and substance abuse um so that  is kind of long- winded but there's some   potential there and it's exciting because  it connects to those crime prevention efforts um the next one um Fleet Maintenance  so Fleet um they maintain all of the vehicles   for police fire Public Works and parks and Etc  and um we also our heavy equipment is purchased   through the CIP and I mentioned that because  streets and parks have long-standing vacancies   of around 20% and we'll get to those issues  later in this handout um looking at the size   of our Fleet at the types of the vehicles  that we're deploying and those maintenance   intervals could have both a positive impact  on the budget from the stpoint of the charges   that Fleet passes through to the users in  the general fund but can also have free   up some capacity in the CIP so it's kind of  probably something you don't think about a   whole bunch but it has um it's it's a pretty  expensive cost and there's some potential there oh and that's on the next slide so sorry  everyone and behind myself oh we going to skip   through that one so now we're on to tier two  so do you have any feedback today about tier   one before we move on to tier two so I had a  quick question on accounts payable when you say   positions eliminated is that for good or do those  folks move to other open positions I think this is   a matter we this needs to be evaluated you know  like consider what this looks like goes back to   council member H's question so those positions  would be eliminated from the Departments some   new positions be created in pay in finance and  then the remaining positions or individuals would   have the opportunity to bid into or to move into  vacant positions that we intend on filling in the   organization similar what we've done previous  times okay and then on um Municipal Court um   saying that the volume of court has decreased is  that because of the backlog we had with covid and   we've caught up and now no I'm sorry I skipped  that one um thanks for bringing that one up um   there's just there's fewer tickets being written  so that transaction piece of Municipal Court is   lower than it used to be however there's a lot  more work related to probation substance abuse   they manage the special alcohol contracts um so  the concept is isn't just to eliminate positions   but to also look at repurposing positions  um because they're really they're really   doing some interesting work related to crime  prevention everyone's doing interesting work   but their work has changed over time quantify that  activity decrease from Municipal Court um we could   certainly there'd be two ways to do it one of it  would be um transactions or things they process   and the other one would be Revenue that that's  part of the study we're in the process we're doing   a process study right now this was probably not  what was intended on number 10 um but it sparked   that I think would probably fall under a tier  one concept is um like a paperless City Hall I   know that's the paperless timekeeping is different  but just what the cost savings for that would be   as well across all departments yeah and accounts  pable actually kind of connects to that not not   in the looking for services but in how our vendors  do our work with us there's probably some I know   we would have to take an adjustment up here but  no but I think that there's I think there's a lot   but I think there's a l there's been with of one  of the things that's happened from the pandemic   is just a lot of Automation and Technology that's  been something to keep up with so that's certainly   a neat idea to consider we we can prove you know  some point we can have a presentation that Jamie   can uh give you regarding what we've done to move  into a paperless environment we're not fully there   by any means right but we our records are moving  into a paper list so I'll add that to the list   is that sound good to add to the list okay yeah  I think it's remarkable um we have we get new   printers every year you guys probably know this we  get new printers every year and this year um the   cost of printing has gone down so much and there's  so much less printing that they've changed the   cost model for it you know it's just it's like one  of printing has become one of those things like   long distance it's just just doesn't happen like  it used to I will add um to council member hoel's   point on the naming rights um I'm looking forward  to that discussion as well and I think we can do   it in a way that honors names as well could be the  oh Heisel Park sponsored by you know such and such   business that way we honor the name and still  can benefit from from those Revenue sources and   I think you'll find that in the recommendations  and there's some Untouchables you we're not going   to rename C2 but I think you're right there are  some creative ways you can deal with it and and   maybe even deal with facilities with rooms inside  Sentry 2 that type of thing so so if if someone   offered a billion dollars to rename the round  building we wouldn't do it takes four [Laughter] votes all right are we ready for tier two or tier  three well that was no we're ready for tier two   right okay I don't think we'll ever be ready for  tier three I don't think we're no right um so tier   two as I mentioned before um these are adjustments  and these would be adjustments to service levels   they're not just a matter of innovation these  would be adjustments to service levels that things   that are um in the green or in the blue so um the  first one on the list is cultural arts agreements   um right now Cultural Arts agreements have  they tend to increase every year based on   the increase in assessed valuation growth um it's  not implausible um that assess if we had declining   revenues in other areas like I've mentioned with  franchise fees and sales tax it's not implausible   that our av growth would be greater than our  overall Revenue portfolio growth so you could   imagine a situation where Cultural Arts Agreements  are increasing but then we're decreasing having to   decrease services our own city of Witchita  services so that is an invitation to think   differently about those agreements um the library  materials option is one that we've considered that   has occurred in the past there were reductions in  2020 and then funding was restored in 2022 that's   what that is um and the main result is generally  longer wait time for popular materials um The Code   Enforcement one is interesting you'll bear with  me we have um the budget's been increased for   this area by about $200,000 and so what this this  reduction would um require some thinking about   how Code Enforcement cases how um forced actions  are PRI which forced actions are prioritized um   and there's some so for example when um there's  less nuisance abatement what they've noticed is   that there is an increase in illegal dumping  or um non-emergency demolitions is one that   could be deemphasized but um that is something  that could have an impact on um housing Supply   or the ability to um do infill development so all  of these have different impacts um but it's on the   list because it's an area that has been increased  in the last few years so that is Code Enforcement prioritization um facilities is another division  that has a vacancy rate around 20% um this has   impacted performance but um facilities is an  operation that has um they have a core internal   staff they also have the ability to Outsource  some work um to contractors and you know for   custodial you you've probably seen the contracts  come from Board of bids custodial or trades and   and those types of things so the concept here  is to evaluate what is done by in-house staff   what is consistently contracted out um and to  think about that more strategically and also   potentially um save money from vacant positions  that is that concept and I think also too there's   a lot of value not just in looking at the how  but the what um so there's some seasonality in   our facilities um some of our our facilities  are all hosting these different activities and   have different occupancy loads and schedules  considering it would be it would have to be a   pretty thorough analysis any questions about  facilities not a question but just a comment   um are are you still on facilities we are on  facilities yeah I I'll I'll hold okay all right   um the next is Golf and this is a little bit  like the fleet topic where I said that that   you know the the heavy equipment that the fleet  the fleet fund um cares for is paid for out of   the CIP so this one really has the greatest  impact on The Debt Service fund but when you   um when you help the debt Serv when you  improve capacity in The Debt Service fund   you also improve the Outlook of the general fund  because it allows you to have potentially more   flexibility when you look at allocating the  mo Levy between the two funds currently the   golf fund owes a Debt Service fund $5.7 million so  this concept is to put the golf fund on a 15-year   repayment schedule back to The Debt Service fund  um and so that is that one for um when the golf   fund lacked the capacity to um service this debt  the The Debt Service fund serviced it for them   and then in the the debt was reamortized and then  now this is this is just the principal portion um   The Debt Service fund took care of the interest  part will that be about 400,000 a year it's yes   and and again we could look at different  schedules for this but it is it is if it   weren't pursued it would reduce the capacity  for The Debt Service fund and as we move into   tier three you'll see why that um could create  challenges when's the last time the um there   was a payment made back to the debt service from  Gulf that's a good question I will get back to you Mark thinks it's 2005 or six I feel like it was  more recent than that I'd like to find that out   if that's possible yeah you bet we have a schedule  for it so of course they're just starting to turn   things around and I would hate to Rob them they  need irrigation they need a lot of things they   just red the club houses got new golf carts and  I would hate to just yeah take all the money from   them right I think well I I think that's why it's  this is a 15-year schedule a different repayment   and and it was and I I picked 15 years because  it was originally a 15-year dot 15-year dot um   so um but different repayment schedules could  be considered so was this for the construction   of Auburn Hills yes yes yes was it yeah I I would  if the council's willing to have the discussion we   probably ought to put an you know determine put an  end to all of this right it's we've been carrying   on the books for a long time and there's been  discussion about whether or not we should continue   to show it as an obligation or whether the city  should just say we've used property tax dollars   for that and then not seek recovery from the the  fund I think it's an important policy discussion   to have it's not something you don't just write  off the debt I think you need to think through   that um but that was it's I previous councils have  wrestled with this as well part part of that is   that houses being built on a golf course are worth  more than houses not on a golf course property   taxes are higher on those houses so there's more  revenue for the city because of that golf course   that was built right there there has been some  suggestion that you treat this like a tiff right   and that you had an increased value because of  the buil you know the golf course you know we had   increased value from the houses but those who were  around at the time in earlier discussions said   we knew all of that but we still believe that  the Enterprise fund should pay for the cost of   the golf course so that that was the original  thinking and they the Tiff thinking has come   later afterwards but was Auburn when was Auburn  Hills built do you know 20 years ago I yeah yeah   I think yeah 2001 yeah yeah I'd like to have a  conversation about what that looks like okay y are we done with golf now yeah um number 16 I I  will not be in favor of reducing any sort of money   going towards mabcd I mean it's I we're just about  where I think we need to be but even then I I'm   interested in discussions about how we um combat  especially illegal dumping which I believe is now   the number one cost with M ABCD but um yeah have  a hard time looking at any sort of reduction going   that way and I would just straight out not be in  favor of that one so should I not should I should   it not move forward should we can still work up  concepts for this or just not work up any concepts   for it I think Concepts should still be put on  the table for discussion okay got it I'm also I   agree with council member hoisel we are doing some  really good work now I'm fine with the discussion   but I won't be supporting cuts to C me three I'll  just throw something out there and it's maybe not   it's along the same vein but um it's more about  the dumping part that council member H Heisel   brought up even more than tall grass and weeds and  you know dangerous structures but when I went to   visit the realtime crime Center a couple years  ago in Fort Worth one of the things that they   utilized their um camera system for was also in  areas that were high targets for illegal dumping   and it helped decrease man out it was prevention  right instead of you know going and cleaning up   afterwards and then having to you know pay to have  it dumped and all the different things so I know   that you know crime prevention is certainly a high  priority and we want to make sure that that's the   priority for the real-time crime Center but it was  an an interesting concept that they did so um I   still have all my notes from the visit if anybody  wants to learn more and then um you know happy um   deputy chief Duff went with us too so he would  have some insight but maybe thinking of just a   little bit different way and a real-time crime  Center is you know lower cost than some of the   other traditional ways that we deal with this  because of discussions I've had primarily with   council member H Isel we've mapc mabcd Public  Works and police are working on maybe bringing   a strategy forward that would do that very thing  yep yeah and and those types of I mean not not   to advocate for that particular idea but those  types of ideas where you are maybe investing in   something new or standing up something new in the  next year to get ready for 2026 and potentially   reduce the demand for something in the future is  something that we have capacity and thankfully a   little time on our side so um that's that's  tier two um any any other feedback on these okay the tier three concepts are difficult um  these are things that are high priorities in   the community survey um they really they're  really related to our core Services um and   so um but as you've seen in the table at  the front of the handout there's really 's   no way I mean there might be other Concepts  that we haven't uncovered and if you think   of them definitely share um this is just the  beginning um but it as based on the handout   in that table there's no way to get to balance  without touching tier three so um number 19 um   would be that once the safer Grant expires in  March of 26 that those positions would not be retained question about that what would be the  difference between is it a salary increase between   2026 and 2027 that's a great question yeah it's it  it's just would be for April through December and   26 it's pro-rated it's not the whole year great  question now we would need to retain a majority of   those positions to just uh staff the fire station  that we currently have in the budget is that   correct um if this option were considered or again  we also talked about looking at the variations on   it that's something you would consider is how do  you staff the current complement of fire stations   and the new one that's being built okay well I  yeah the there's a lot of complexity to this one   right so um it would probably involve changing the  Staffing model that we recently adopted right in   terms of how many um uh firefighters we have  on various pieces of apparatus um you're not   going to close stations so you talk about that  it also would have some impact on the plans we   have for new stations so again remember we're  not necessarily advocating this but we're we're   trying to give you an idea of the magnitude of  the kinds of issues that we're facing in order   to get that balance especially in years 27 and 28  I appreciate the discussions I'm always going to   be supportive of getting to the 4minute response  time the best we can and if that includes adding   fire stations and whatnot I I want to follow  my personal opinion is to follow through the   the plan that we currently have and ensuring that  we have the appropriate Staffing levels at those   positions so um I guess we can continue to talk  about it but that's just my my take on this one   I might push back on that a little bit um I think  we need to be look at all options to make sure we   have a balanced budget that's a pretty big number  so well that is true but at what expense Public   Safety for people that aren't accurately covered  and that's our job is to protect them too well   four minutes is the uh optimal time what's the  average time in in major cities I don't know   what's the response time for police get robbery  or something what's the average time there it's   a lot more than four minutes so you have to  balance the police coverage with fire coverage   with all the different needs of the community  but we can't talk about public safety and and   that be one of the major things that we cut well  you have to balance things out I think when we're   looking just at things like this in terms of a  poly discussion at Grants just making sure that   grants are sustainable so we don't get used to a  certain level of Staffing or Staffing approach and   then those have to expire later on so my concern  is when we debate grants over the course of the   next few years that we always take that in mind  that if a grant expires we're on the hook for the   funds afterwards so I think that should just be  policy discussion so we don't add to the burden to   move forward well along those lines we can't use  a safer grant reapplication for these particular   positions that's correct am I thinking correctly  here we could not for this funding round if the   council took a uh an action that indicated that  these positions or some of them would be deleted   at the end of the grant period then we I think we  have the ability to go in for safer for retention   of positions okay so when and it safer a yearly  a yearly application for safer I believe it's annual but we didn't apply for it this year no  because this doesn't expire until 26 and so we   wouldn't have been eligible for retention I guess  this would be a question for chief snow does she   anticipate any Safer applications over the next  couple of years that that is a question for her   we can get answer yeah I think that would be a  good element to include in this if we look it   it looks like there's questions related to this  and so that would be a good element to include in that right um Park maintenance um again like many  other divisions they have a vacancy rate around   20% um they their operations include forestry  Turf maintenance also caring for structures   and Parks like playgrounds and shelters and the  like um they they um use contractors for a lot of   their services there's a longstanding contracts in  place for Turf Mowing and then for some other um   maintenance activities but they still have had und  spending um so this one um we would be looking um   at their preferred outcomes it could potentially  impact service levels so mowing cycles and things   like that um but could result in savings so  right now they have um been under spending um   due to vacancies but this would be rather than  just stop you know just freezing them at their   current Staffing level and their current Serv  Service delivery model thinking about it more   strategically moving forward that every two  weeks we move a park depends on the type of asset I think that there are there's  seven 14 and 21 cyle I tried to get   Bob to do no moay but I couldn't  get him to do it you know how many   complaints I got in my district  about other people exercising no yes yes I did suggest the river and  then and then the citizen survey is   statistically it's a random  sample we ask about people's   districts and we could see how it  turns out can you all sorts of fun second I think what we had our um uh Workshop half  of our first jobs were mowing lawn so we can hop   out there and some of the cost yeah put that in  the ordinance part of the council members duties   got a mow a park a month 15 minutes okay District  Six can use the push mowers too so they don't PLL   we'll use a little electric all right well I'm  going to scoot to the last three of the services   and then we have some internal Concepts um one the  police department as you all know there are a lot   of vacant positions in the police department and  they have been filling their recruit classes and   training new staff but they're still um they's  still turn over people retire um so um the cost   of the vacant positions right now is around $3  million um that's probably an untenable concept   to freeze them at their current Staffing level um  but in this idea police Rec police recruit classes   would proceed um but Staffing levels would be  the same so it' be more of a one in one out   concept rather than um graduating more recruits  than there are um current staff to keep up um   there's also some alternative they they have been  engaged in some alternative um Staffing models   with community service officers and the like so um  this concept if you were had any interested in it   um we would um research and develop some options  for your review so what that means we would be   Frozen at current employment level or the ones  that we have budget the $3 million is what that   would be does that make sense your current so you  just have kind of a one in one out as I mentioned   earlier on there's you know we can adjust the  magnitude of these we can consider other options   so ass let's just assume we had 50 vacancies in  police officers this is basically you would stay   at that 50 right so your recruit classes would be  size in anticipation of what your retirement and   normal retirement at departure um rate would be  that that's the concept so I guess look at options   with this one but we're just now getting back  to the level we need to be with uh officers on   the street so I struggle with this one as well I  do too the alternative here too is not to put the   brakes on Staffing at all but to be clear-headed  about what their vacancy rates will be based on   their current level of Staffing and how many  recruits they're going going to be training in   the current year and build that into the model we  wouldn't know that until closer to the kickoff of   budget workshops next year so where does the three  million currently go that we're saving on um a lot   of it goes to overtime well yeah some of it goes  to overtime and then some of it's just general   fund savings okay well if it's you know we're  paying for overtime instead of paying for the   salaries that's what I was just going to ask and  I'm sure smarted people T I have looked at this   but is there a point where we're paying more for  overtime than we're paying if we just filled the   position does that make sense yeah I've done an  analysis of that before and I could include that   in this so kind of like a break even for overtime  yep you bet and then I also worry that you know   overtime sounds great because it's more money  in your pocket but you know we we talked about   this before when we did the the bonus and the pay  increase for police it's about money but it's also   about morale and you know we want to make sure  that we aren't relying on overtime when maybe   it's just burning our police officers out and  that's why we have problems with attention right   that's that's that's the biggest issue that's  exactly right we we're you say that again I'm   sorry about we're to the point now where the chief  has a hard time filling positions um for overtime   um because of the workloads and the length of  time that we've been short staffed so yeah now   some of this might be impacted by the real-time  crime Center going forward we might be able to   find redundancies and eliminate some of the the  duties that some officers have so well I think   you'll hear when we bring the strategy forward  there are a number of things we can do to improve   service levels that don't necessarily add a lot  of bodies but they are through use of technology   and other methods better data analysis we can do  better jobs on deployment but the chief can go   through all that yeah so in the interested time  I've got my note here you know look at overtime   Break Even but just even even if even if things  are Full Speed Ahead with the recruit classes   the police department is the largest part of the  general fund budget so it's probably worth digging   into and Reporting back on so if that's fair um  Street Maintenance this is another one with 20%   vacancy rates I really did calculate them all they  all are about the same um the CIP does the big   Street Maintenance the you know the big you know  an entire section of Street being maintained the   operating budget does more things like potholes  and routine work um and so like a lot of Divisions   they've they've been stretched um and this  would be um and they do have savings at year in   generally and this would be an evaluation of what  should be done in house what should the service   levels be what could be done for contractor  with contractors and that sort of evaluation so um and then the last one on this slide is  Transit um there's a transfer to the general   from the general fund it's static unlike transfers  from some other um to from the general fund to   some other services so that's why it's in tier  three so and it's probably not the best timing   for them because they're moving past having their  pandemic relief grants but could you explain that   one a little more oh yeah so the general fund um  transfers out to a number of services um like we   do half of floodway half of planning not of  their cost their fees um and so those float   based on how much the cost of those services are  to provide but the transit transfer out is static   so that's why I put this one in tier three instead  of in tier two so it's just not increased so seems   to be such a small way smaller number than the  other ones you don't want if you want to kick   it off the list we could do that or just I know  you've got a lot to do tonight so maybe feedback   later would be just as effective time wise um  the next three few things um the next two are   employee compensation and benefits the first  one is health insurance plan redesign um I'm   just going to intro this top topic um this would  be um looking and having an external partner help   us look at our health insurance plan options  and then also to look at what other options   like employers are offering now um there's  potential cost savings with this um and then   also it it could be that health insurance isn't  um the draw to Future employees that it used to   be in in the past but then we would still  make sure that for our current employees um   like plans would be offered so that's that it's  just a really a good housekeeping thing to be doing I know this will probably be a policy  discussion at some point but I'm very interested   in what commissioner Hal had said um regarding um  looking at Partnerships with the county regarding   wellness centers and how that might adjust how we  look at Healthcare in the future so I know there   probably policy debate regarding that but in terms  of a cost saving analysis I'd be interested in   the model that you know Techtron is using I know  they've had it for over two years now so seeing   if that's a model that the city could do and if  there's a cost savings with that as well okay good   thanks I know I enjoyed the tremendous benefits  of this health plan are better than anywhere I've   ever worked they're way too rich too rich so I  don't know how we can sustain that it's caught   the health going up so much I don't also like to  know what our employees think about that as well   right like an employee survey yeah of course they  like the great health care plan I like it when I'm   here too but can we afford it that's the question  yeah I think with so if they want to keep that I   mean so I'm I have all the the best stuff and  I pay for that um if I want less I can pay for   less there's two options there but I think if our  employees are benefiting from it and they want it   should take care of them I don't think we should  reduce that or give them something that won't   cover all the random needs you never know what  may happen to you never know when some medical   condition that you weren't ready for pops up and  if you have subar coverage then we just kind of   hurt our team well a major medical you're probably  always taken care of it's whether that that office   visit you pay $5 for it you Havey deductible that  goes towards it I mean that's where the real cost   is I think all we're looking for or is a direction  because we do have an employee committee that   works and brings recommendations to you whenever  we have changes in health insurance and if the   council's desire is to come in with another tier  or to look at some additional cost savings and   we can work with the employee group over the next  year and see what options we can identify I think   this is an issue that's extremely important to me  the number one cause of personal bankruptcy in the   united states is medical cost and so you know we  can not compete with the Private Industry I know   that there's many departments within the city of  witto where our employees could easily go into   the private sector and make more but one of the  things that does tether them here tether Talent   here is because we have affordable benefits for  them um you know not all of our employees are   are making um are probably not compensated as they  should be already so this is this is an area that   I'm going to be trying to be protective of for  employees I I think it's very important in that   same sense I think when you look at the wages  have the wages of City staff caught up too the   private sector if they have then we need to look  at that insurance too so that's number 25 real   Qui good one more point of clarification here so  are we talking like we'll give them options like   you can earn two extra dollars an hour if you  take the lower or the no plan are we looking at   trade-offs here for that or is it just strictly  what we offer to the employees all we're asking   is do you want us to look at reform of our health  plan we've got there'll be all kinds of things if   we Empower our employees to take a look at it if  the council's saying we want to this is a rising   cost we've identified it in the budget for over 10  years as a continued rising cost if you want us to   address some options then we'll engage employees  and our health advisor on on that okay there you   go so the next one is employee compensation um so  this one um in the future so there's two ways that   employees pay increases one is um depending on  if you're exempt or non-exempt you could receive   a step increase or Merit increase and then the  other way that an employes pay increases is by   an across theboard pay increase which we call  a general pay adjustment um this concept would   be having no more across the board for General  pay adjustments except if they are included in   current bargaining unit agreements or agreements  currently being negotiated so people would stay   in the same wage scale same the the the table  would be the same moving forward um so that's   that concept So when you say unless included  in current collective bargaining Agreements   are does this mean any Union negotiations from  here on would be held to the step increase or   the mer increase yeah what we would model in  the budget for future as as contracts expire   we would model in no across the board increases we  would only model the step increases this strategy   was discussed a lot during the recession by the  council um and um I don't think we went to just   straight steps but we had very limited cost of  living increases during that recession period so   um I think what we're you know just trying to get  guidance are actually trying to set the stage for   that if we have Revenue challenges it's going  to be hard to deliver above cost of living or   even sometimes it cost a living and so um I'm not  expecting a lot of direction today other than you   know it's because 70% of our s of our cost are  tied to uh wages and benefits that's why the   health insurance and the compensation issues here  in front of you so I I understand that perspective   I also feel like that's kind of tying our hands  as to any future adjustments we might need to do   if there are certain departments that are falling  behind in employment so um I guess options but I   don't know that I would necessarily be in favor of  any any changes there yeah and I don't know that I   we would not bring something to you as part of the  25 budget but you know if if everybody understands   wages should be on the table for considering 26 2  and that's what we'll have to bring some options   back you mean to vote on in 2026 you would vote  on them next year in 25 I thought you were pushing   that to 2026 yeah yeah but you would they would  be first starting in 2026 yeah if we can move to   number to 26 Elizabeth if you don't mind I'd like  Mark to talk about this for a second because he's   got an interesting perspective that would help us  from a policy standpoint on um some approaches to   our debt and to our Capital funding that we've  never really talked about before so Mark uh so   as you know we have a CIP that has uh a lot  of General obligation projects in it General   obligation projects are generally paid for with  the M Levy we Levy about seven Mills to The Debt   Service fund of our total M Levy of about 32  Ms that allocation is up to you uh whether   we allocate seven or 10 or two or or five or  whatever that is up to you and we presented you   that to you each year now I would say the CIP  is like a battleship it's hard to make a tight   turn uh so if we approve a project today we're  probably going to finance that project two or   three or four years down the road so just to give  you perspective that's why we included this in 20   uh 28 I believe but the concept here is that we  use General obligation or M Levy funds for the top   priority in the CIP which is maintenance that is  the top priority of the CIP that aligns with the   uh comprehensive community plan any enhancement  or expansion projects we would have to identify   a Alternate Source of revenue for that would allow  you to lower the mill Levy in the CIP uh this is   modeled after a half a mill in 28 and you would  have further flexibility the further out you went   as our old debt fell off but again the concept  is we would use the CIP M Levy for maintenance   projects within the CIP which is a fairly  sizable amount but any new projects for expansion   enhancement anything like that we would identify  alternate sources of revenue and those are things   that we could uh discuss at some point what some  of the options would be but that's the concept   here well and just to put a finer point on it one  of the concepts that Mark has discussed with me   is whether or not you talk about a referendum for  some of the enhancements as we go forward so for   Park Improvement projects for fire stations police  stations under this concept you would then go out   to referendum whether it's you know probably for  sales tax or you would make you'd have some other   kind of pitch in terms of a piece of the property  tax that would be devoted to that but it would be   a conscious decision on the part of the council  it's just a concept um that we've kicked around   a little bit but we haven't really refined it all  and the question is do you want to bring to the   public then enhancements and allow them to vote on  those or do you want us to continue to do the CIP   the way we do and try to balance maintenance  projects with enhancements I'd like to hear   options um how would that affect our our credit  rating well I think as long as we reduce the mid   Levy commensurate with The Debt Service that  we have the rating agencies would view it   impartially I mean obviously if we cut our M Levy  too much and couldn't service our debt they would   not like that at all uh but actually I think it'  probably be a positive because if you identified   a alternative source of revenue for enhancement  projects like the sales tax I think they'd view   that as a positive okay yeah I I support taking  a look at that so this would be moving C more   towards a direct service fund so when we have the  then this will be a policy discussion I'm bring   up the two probably contoversial policy discusss  too but if we're looking at a dirt street program   moving funds that were allocated dirt street  program towards maintenance of our current roads   would allocate from thatt service fund to General  budget and and that could be a way to supplement   some of those funds and then if we're looking for  enhancement improvements that could be a sales tax   referendum discussion in the future for more of  a policy discussion for the community as a whole   the concept okay thank you and Mark just another  question so we're thinking about this for 2028   correct not for 26 because there's some projects  that are in the pipeline already that you know   we've we've invested significant dollars into  through design work um and so just just curious   about that and then I also Wonder um I think  we'd have to come and I'm just thinking out loud   because this is the first time I've heard this and  I'm excited to hear more I think we should look at   every option but there are some things in the CIP  that we have to do even though it's not maintained   it's enhanced maybe because of water or um storms  you know storms who are or BNR whatever it may be   so I think if we um decide to go to the you know  maintenance only model if you will there has to be   some buts included in right you you would exempt  utility projects for instance from this but all I   all we're trying to ask is are you interested in  us pursuing some that option to give something to   you to look at okay I think my my only concern  about that um I always like going out to the   voters on that but but we get to a point where the  nice things that we want to see happen in parts of   our Community will they actually happen will we  go out there we have to combat misinformation now   uh we've seen that with other things and uh how  much can we really do to um gauge whether people   are wanting to settle for what we have or truly  invest in ourselves we've been talking about that   for so long even with project wiah and it just  seems that often times as we come up with things   that can improve our quality of life and those  discussions um a lot of people will settle and   I think if this body was making decisions for  those nicer things our Aquatics plan and all of   that we will make that decision more times than  not and our community benefits from it and that   that would really be my own concern about hey  let's put all these nice things out there and   say hey let's go put it out for 1 cent sales  tax actually can make some of those things   happen I don't know how many folks would have  actually voted for The Aquatic but wi loves it right there's no doubt that that's that's  the challenge we we'll bring something forward   I I I am mindful of the fact that we've got a  transition from this into a normal meeting into   your six o'clock meeting so we'd like to end this  in just a couple of minutes if that's all right   but we have one last thing in this tier and that  is the stabilization reserve and I'll let um yeah   Elizabeth talk about that just quickly that's on  page eight of your handout um the city council   approved policy 40 last year um and there's  been transfers into the stabilization because   these cyclically driven revenues particularly  interest earnings and then franchise fees also   to a bit for a Time have been quite strong  um the balance of it is significant at this   point it's 32.4 million um the thing to remember  there is that it's intended for onetime uses um   which those could be for one-time expenditures  they also could be one-time uses that transition   you um into 2026 um and they're also  could be used in for cyclical addressing   cyclical challenges but um we're dealing with  a structural deficit in 20126 so that wouldn't   be an eligible use so that is the last one on  tier three and we did not identify um a dollar   amount for that one um and then there's  some other options on pages 9 through 10   that you can also consider again you know I think  we've been talking since January um we're we're   not at a great place when it comes to 2026 um as  far as the dollars but I think we're in a good   place when it comes to planning and the timeline  um so continue to think about these things um   we'll get the simulator stood up um get the the  budget the proposed budget put together and then   if I can just say on the T on table six the other  Concepts those are mostly things that we're going   to work on administratively but we want you to  know they're in the works for instance I know   code enforcement is an issue we are going through  a study right now to look at pinch points in the   code enforcement process why it takes so long  to get some properties to the point of of final   compliance and so we're trying to do some process  improvements there to see if we can't pick up   efficiencies um in in um in a way that maybe frees  up staff to be able to deal with more cases so the   of it um the item 34 we started to flatten the  organization during the recession there's been   some erosion of that effort um and um I guess  we want to revisit it to to see if we should be   looking at readjusting u based on what's happened  in the last 10 years roughly so um everything   else we can bring forward and I don't know that  we need a lot of policy Direction at this point so can you make sure to keep us up to date on  those I yes I had some I I approve of the uh   code enforcement looking at that um Street  lighting that was one that kind of stuck   out to me I know we are a little behind as far  as maintaining a lot of that and also forestry   you know cutting back they're so far behind  too the street lighting as you know most of   that is the evergy system it's not ours and  so all we're trying to do is right siize the   amount of money that every charges us and that  we pay and I think that's a budget adjustment be   honest with you to make sure that our numbers are  accurate which I think will lead to a reduction   quick question we're we have two openings for  two City Judges we have a decrease in the court   utilization would it be prudent to look if we  maybe only need to hire one city judge instead   of two and maybe use you know if there's  a case load then use uh retired judges to   to fill in and stuff so we did talk about doing a  process Improvement we didn't talk about looking   at the judges workloads or the workloads going  through the court but I think that could be part   of this review um I don't know that that will be  accomplished in time for the second judge vacancy   though I we'll have to do some internal discussion  in that regard thank you and also item number 35   the pension Reserve right I think that's something  definitely worth a deeper discussion on it some point all right well best of luck with the rest  of your meeting I hope that was helpful I I think   when we did this during Co the pardon me more  questions now than I did well that's the idea   right maybe what we can do if it would make any  difference Mara leave this up to you but if the   council would feel more comfortable having one  more Workshop to go kind of go through any of the   this and maybe some last minute issues we do need  to start producing the document and I have to   do I have to present it to you in July um so any  additional guidance if you'd like to have that one   last session we could do that maybe I think I'm  getting some head knot we would like an additional   okay there's just too many Big Ticket items that  could be you know yeah and I think that Jey yeah   that could help us scope our review of things too  and you know as you get started what what are we   looking at so to give us some scope and some a  framework we we'll try to refine some of this   that you've seen now and if you didn't just take  it off the table and there wasn't much that you   did that to will some of those really big ticket  items we can talk about a few options yeah would   that also have a space for um not only like more  in-depth conversation on this but also some policy   discussion sounds like there's a few things  that some of us want to talk about uh if it's   possible that we can staff you that way um it's  I think some of the ones that are going to be the   most in- depth are ones you're going to need a lot  more data and those are the things we would talk   about during 20 the rest of 24 to position us for  decisions in 25 that impact 26 that's and that was   what Elizabeth said at the beginning we're trying  to set that stage so you don't have your back up   against the wall at the end right and and how  I was envisioning this looking in the budget is   that when you open the budget there's a bunch of  intro stuff and there's a transmittal letter that   provides you an overview of the budget and then  there's some budget policy issues and this would   be a policy issue but it would be more general  concepts to demonstrate that we're going to be   working on this rather than changing head counts  and line items and things like that one thing that   I would be interested in too is that you know for  example 35 when we talk about employee pensions   that you know and I see in here it says that  it's not recommended and I completely agree with   that but how will we solicit more information  from our employees to see how this might impact   them you know if we hear that employees you know  say wow this would be a game changer for me and   I'd probably look for another job I mean I just  I just want to know how we're going to make sure   that we're making decisions that are inv in  involving the people that will be impacted by   what we decide as much as we can so that would  be also helpful for me in the process I'm I'm   going to work with the Union represent atives a  little bit and and some of our other employees   um we've had some informal discussions about what  do employees today value versus what they invalu   you know 15 20 years ago and we've kind of put we  have a benefit package that reflects old thinking   and we' I've been told by some newer employees  that I don't really care about a pension system   I don't know if I'm going to be here long enough  to get it but I would like if you can give me more   money or or you can do something on some other  benefit that's important to me I don't know if   that's those are one-offs or whether that's  the how our our employees feel and whether a   cafeteria approach to benefits is the right way  to go there's also the you know the benevolent   employer who does insist on certain benefits just  because that's the right thing to do for employees   so it's it's a it could be a robust discussion  with our employees as we go forward well any of   these I'm sorry I think that the conversation  also so I think as you mentioned talking to   the bargaining units regarding this as well um  obviously we have some Representatives here at   the table in front of the audience right and so  just having again more stakeholders having that   conversation about the future of what Workforce  is really most motivated by is it more pay or is   it the better benefits um down the road is it the  health insurance is it really the pension program   asking these questions not just to our employees  but also obviously to the bargaining units who   represent many of our employees yep and are  we going to pass this through the Employee   Retirement Board and the police on fire let them  take a look at it as well we're really far away   from doing that right let's have these discussions  we were joking when I was talking to some of the   employee reps we're all much older than the people  that they represent and a lot of our employee base   so it's important we get employee input not just  you know know from a few of us so yeah and I have   penciled for my sake I penciled last um last  September I presented an update to you on our   arpa recovery plan that I we finish up every year  in July and I presented it to you in September so   that might be a good time for an update on some  of these things too so it's always a pleasure   I'm glad you're so interested um and um we'll  we'll try to keep up the good work to support   you all great job Elizabeth and just a reminder  the simulator will be available starting tomorrow   I think tomorrow yes I will it will be better  than ever and thank you I think it was a reminder   to community to participate and I see that more  people are coming in for our six o'clock meeting   but to participate in the simulator which reminds  people that we're about to face a $12 million   deficit so tough decisions will have to be made  and conversations especially right here at the   benches we've been talking about the 35 different  options these are the tough conversations we're   going to have to have and they're not fun but it's  to put us in a better position moving forward and   so again our responsibility is to be fiscally  responsible so being prudent with taxpayer   dollars is exactly what we want to do and so being  part of that simulation process I think will help   Community understand just how difficult these  decisions really are One Last Thing Before You   you hop off here uh what What's the current um  Revenue in the stabilization reserve and also the   permanent Reserve uh those are the same one and  the same okay um and it's on page eight it's 32.4 million toward the bottom  of the page okay I see yes right ready to sign up okay thank  you very much we will now recess   so that we can come back for our six  o'clock meeting thank you very much