This transcript is from the **Oakdale Economic Development Commission (EDC)** meeting on February 1, 2023. **Main Participants identified:** * **Bill Burns:** EDC Chair * **Dave Halper:** EDC Vice Chair * **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Community Development Director (often referred to as "Andy" in the staff capacity) * **Susan Olson:** City Council Member / Liaison * **Carrie Frost:** New EDC Member * **Stacy:** EDC Member (Director of Carol Matthews Daycare) * **Frank, Lucia, Aaron:** EDC Members *** [5:19] **Bill Burns:** Well, welcome everyone to the February 1st, 2023, um, EDC Economic Development Commission meeting. And we're going to kick it off with our Pledge of Allegiance. And Frank, if you could help us on that one. [5:32] **Frank:** I will. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. [5:45] **Bill Burns:** Thank you, Frank. [5:46] **Frank:** You're welcome. [5:48] **Bill Burns:** Uh, roll call again. The only ones I see missing are the Box... [6:05] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Right now that's correct. And uh, our student liaison type person. Yep, right there we go. [6:11] **Bill Burns:** So um, approval of minutes. Uh, anyone got any questions or concerns in regards to the minutes? Um, so make a motion to uh, pass the minutes. [6:28] **EDC Member:** I'll make a motion to approve the minutes. [6:30] **EDC Member:** I'll second. [6:32] **Bill Burns:** Okay. Um, opposed? In favor say aye. [6:36] **Commission (In Unison):** Aye. [6:38] **Bill Burns:** There we go. Got a Bob. Um, we will move on to the uh, 2023 EDC work plan approval. Mr... do you want to take a moment to introduce our new member? [7:02] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Yes. Um, so Carrie—Carrie Frost is our new member here at the EDC. Why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself? [7:11] **Carrie Frost:** That big? Here in Oakdale—live in Woodbury. Been a Woodbury resident for 15 years and done a lot of business in Oakdale as well. Um, I am married with two puppies, which is a little crazy, um, but I'm just happy to be here and get to know everybody. And thanks for having me. [7:35] **Bill Burns:** Great. Welcome. Yes. Well, the next meeting you'll have to bring cookies and milk. That's usually what the person usually does the first time, but it's okay, we can let it slide. Andy was supposed to let you know that, Andy. Um, now would you like to go to the EDC work plan approval? [7:53] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Yes. Um, thank you Mr. Chair. And just a little background on the side, I know this was before everyone at the—at the last meeting in draft form and an opportunity for comments. Uh, I will just kind of run through it pretty quickly and—and highlight the one change that was made from the last time you saw it, and then at the end we'll ask if the commission's comfortable, if you want to make a motion and—and pass it here tonight for Council review. [8:21] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Basically the idea behind a work plan is the EDCs have one on and off since its formation. We're trying to be more consistent here and make sure that all the Committees have work plans under Community Development so it—it's clear expectations on what you all are going to be doing and what your interests or your strengths are, but also in alignment with what uh, Council is looking for out of this committee as well. So I think it's a great best practice and we'll keep it going forward. [8:51] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** So the act—the work plan itself has six key task items. I did go back and I—I wasn't at the last meeting, Shannon Rightlinger covered that for us. I did go back and watch the—the tape quite uh, recently to when—when putting this together and one of the things that was mentioned was: "what is an ED best practice?" Well, there is really no like book on economic development, but just kind of seeing what some of our peer cities are doing or when we go to—we go to groups like Economic Development Association Minnesota or Urban Land Institute and get you know, guidance and advice uh, from them. So that's kind of what—where that comes from when you see that—that listed. [9:36] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** So the—the key areas: first one's business retention and expansion. Participation in those visits is really key. It's been great to see a number of you have been able to—to join us in those visits um, this past year. Uh, also um, you know what's going to be exciting is when we get the results once we complete the 18 visits and be able to start to look at that data and understand what does that mean for Oakdale. How might we better position the city to better help our businesses? That's going to be exciting. [10:14] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** And then three is continued participation in things like groundbreakings, open houses, ribbon cuttings, partner events. It’s just really important. I see the EDC as—as our—our spokespeople for—for the community in the city and a lot of—in a lot of aspects. So that's business uh, retention expansion. [10:38] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Um, the second item would be marketing Oakdale. And this is the one where we've added a little bit on. Before we had on there advising City staff and Council on implementing ED best practice marketing strategies. Expanded on this here to add another bullet about participating in City efforts to improve—improve our actual materials. So our—our website, our social media presence, maybe that's some video content doing or some printed content. [11:08] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** It seems like there was some good discussion last time about um, you know, what is our like 30-second elevator you know, pitch for Oakdale? What are the key things that you know we can—um, we can convey that would talk to our business climate? So that—that's something that um, my thought was that first would we would try to do it at a regular meeting. You know, maybe do some brainstorming on some of those key strengths and weaknesses and then or send out an online survey versus setting up like a—another meeting in addition to this. So that—that's where I'm leaning towards first on that. [11:47] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** I do have to work with our communication um, manager a little bit just to make sure whatever we do at—from economic development is—is in line with the overall City brand. But um, this is the—the appropriate group just you know, kind of think about how we market the city because your work kind of touches all those uh, those different elements. And then website too. Um, there's some uh, feedback too about you know, we've got some resources out there for businesses and—but we don't really connect a lot of the dots there like you know, listing the daycares that are in the community. That could be something that could be done. [12:20] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** A few of those things may need to wait until we're able to fill the—the Community Development Specialist position uh, to be able to get rolling on those. But we heard you. We want to put it in, make sure it got in your work plan here so it becomes a priority. Okay, so continuing on: the other work was there's some presentations last year about data, you know just about our community about the region. Continuing that type of work. [12:47] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Third category here: city property and redevelopment planning. Assisting City staff and Council on marketing efforts. The Tanners—we're going to talk about that again tonight—but that could be other redevelopment project sites that are out there in the community as well. Develop and maintain partnerships: really key here. Working with other organizations—the—the Washington County CDA, the Oakdale Area Chamber of Commerce. I know many of you are—have dual memberships on both and that's just been great for that—that cross—that cross-promotion going forward. And then promoting those resources and tools that are out there. So SizeUp Small Biz tool is a great free resource by County CDA that we get as—as taxpayers under the county. Let's promote it. Let's promote "Open to Business." Um, you know again, helping us to all be spokespeople for that. [13:38] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Uh, second to last category: provide input and local government engagement and planning processes. I think throughout last year, the number of studies we brought—the Bike and Ped Plan—again, gain input. We had MnDOT here talking about Century Avenue. Glenbrook was referenced at the last meeting. That’s something that I'll talk with our planner about, the small area plan, if uh, get an update and opportunity to provide feedback. So we'll keep looking for things like that as well as like policies, right? We had that temporary outdoor patio policy to give some flexibility to businesses. We brought that to—to EDC for—for input and guidance on there. We'll keep doing things like that. [14:18] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Um, lastly, commissioner education. Uh, participation in things like the development bus tour. Whether we do that again this year or that's a two-year thing, we're still figuring that out. But those types of events um, getting guest presentations in here to learn more I think is important so that we can then understand that and—and help to make—give better advice and guidance. Um, so those are all the—that's basically again the summary of the—of the work plan. Um, I'm happy to—to answer any—any questions or if there's additional edits we can do that as well. [14:48] **Bill Burns:** Right now, any questions? I think the—I know we've talked about it—is when you do hire someone else, for the ability for someone to go online, pull up Oakdale and say "where is the daycare centers?" You know, "where's the dog parks? Where's the—where's the insurance agencies?" That kind of thing you know, would be nice. Baby, where do you get your haircut? Where do you get haircuts? Yeah. Or where do you want to get your haircut butchered? Um, that would be—yeah, and I'm sure that'll be down the road. [15:15] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Yeah. I think one of the challenges of that too is: how do we be better than Google? Yeah. We have to keep it updated so you know, not biting up more than we can chew on that and—yeah. But there can be more. There can be more than what's out there now and we'll take that to heart and we'll look into some things and we'll bring it back for input. [15:35] **Bill Burns:** Great, thank you. Uh, are you looking for us to vote for an approval then? [15:40] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Um, that would be—that would be great if you're ready for that. [15:43] **Bill Burns:** Okay. We get a motion to pass that? [15:46] **EDC Member:** Sure. I'll move that we um, we recommend the City Council approve the 2023 Economic Development Commission work plan. [15:55] **EDC Member:** Second. [15:56] **Bill Burns:** All in favor? [15:58] **Commission:** Aye. [15:59] **Bill Burns:** Opposed? Passed. There we go. Um, so we'll move on to the business retention, expansion, and attraction partnership program update. Well, it's a mouthful. Um, I can probably start off with that. Andy, although since we've last met we've had... I think there's been four. Would that be right? There were four. The Best Buy one uh, was rescheduled to a later date, right? Um, again I'm not sure who was—who was on the—the Hearing of America. Anybody? Uh, Angie was? Okay. So we—we had a chamber member who went for that one. [16:42] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** And I was at that—okay, I was at that one as well. Uh, Councilman... you were at... and uh, isn't that Jerry over there? Yeah, he is a full of energy, isn't he? [16:53] **Bill Burns:** Yeah. [16:54] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Well yeah. I mean I think it—it—it went well. Um, I didn't have a chance to read my notes on that one from—from previously. Um, but yeah, he's got a nice niche there for—for his business is with the—the hearing aid sales. A lot of um, you know, long-time customers. I think his big thing is the market's changing, right? Like hearing aids now they're advertising you can you know, buy one at Walmart, but it's really not the same as getting one fine-tuned to your particular needs. So you know, I think he's been able to have a—that service element has done him well over the years. [17:33] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** I didn't remember a lot of issues that he brought up. That tends to... we met with another business in that space. He doesn't like his building, like his space felt... our you know, proximity like the Police Department—things of that nature were going well. He—one of the takeaways was wanted to get more—more engaged and in particularly want to see what the chambers could do for like—for people of color. He specifically asked about that, and Kim was able to um, connect him because of that partnership between Oakdale Chamber and Saint Paul Chamber with some additional kind of networking uh, resources that he might value. Um, Council Member, wouldn't have to put you on the spot, but anything else that jumped off that I might have missed on? [18:18] **Susan Olson:** Nailed it. Although I don't think he was too concerned about the new hearing aids because he's pretty confident in what his hearing aids and the ones that he services compared to the ones you can buy on TV. They're much different. And I think he was pretty confident in that too. Eventually it was going to kind of turn back once people figured out that it wasn't going to work for them, it was going to turn back. So he wasn't too concerned. Didn't seem like it anyway. Pretty confident. [18:49] **Bill Burns:** Yeah, I know when I've talked to him it's more of: he's okay with people buying the ones from Walmart or wherever to get a taste of what it could do, but then if you really want the—the pro—the job done right, you go see him and he tweaks them and gets you the right one and uh, then you can hear finally. Yeah. Did you hear me on that? I hear it. [19:07] **Bill Burns:** All right. Um, the next three I was lucky enough to—to be on. Uh, HyVee, which was um, that was a lot of fun to be there. And before I begin though, Kim O'Brien with the Saint Paul Chamber—she sets these up. She does an amazing job. And she's got a—an itinerary that you go through it, and it doesn't matter what business you are, she's got some great questions and uh, uh, they're given ahead of time to the business that you're going to see so they can give it some thought. But uh, usually it's—it’s... I have not been at one that has not been uh, beneficial for both. [19:50] **Bill Burns:** But HyVee, we got to meet. They have a general manager for two stores. It was um, both Oakdale and Maplewood. And uh, they're thrilled to be in Oakdale. And that's good to hear from a grocery store in Oakdale, that they're thrilled to be here. We're going to leave it at that. Um, and uh, I was surprised they have over 300 employees. I think it was around there. And they're trying to get more and more full-time at that versus part-time. So which is even better for us. Um, Andy, I know you were there. [20:34] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Um, yeah. Uh, I think you summarized it—uh, summarized it well. I think their one employment challenge was growing their managers. So those night shift, late hours, they tend to kind of burn people out. So they want to kind of move them through that, so to get them whether it's at store or someone else. But they tend to... yeah, they—they—they pay—they pay pretty well and they'd rather invest in the full-time than the high turnover of the um—of the—of the part-time jobs going forward. [21:10] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** We did talk to them about um, they want to do some more uh, you know, some events out there this summer to follow up on. I think it was like a bring in some... I can't remember what it was. It—it was... the one thing that rang to me was beer. I remember that part. But like arts and crafts, but it was beer sampling. So they weren't selling it, they were going to be outside, you can sample the beer. Yeah, we haven't got anything in follow-up. The city would have no problem with that. So—so that's one of the things just you know, important. Even though we've—we’ve talked to them before, we just did applications with them. The store manager, he's new—he's new to the area. So it was an opportunity to kind of um, just rekindle that relationship piece as we go forward. [22:04] **Bill Burns:** Yeah, I agree. Um, the next one of course, near and dear to my heart, the Carol Matthews daycare center. Stacy is—is the—the person in control over there. So um, Stacy, how did you think it went? [22:22] **Stacy:** [Mic issues/distanced] How do people in the building to see what we do and talk about you know, things in our community that have applied to our business and how um, and you know the long history of Carol Matthews and our community and so I thought it went really well. So it was nice. [22:45] **Bill Burns:** So a little bit about Carol Matthews daycare center: it's a non-profit daycare center. So it's one of the few in the state. I don't know of any other ones, but I'm just gonna... there's a few. Um, only one in Oakdale. And so it's... you have—and you've got kids coming through who is the second generation family? [23:09] **Stacy:** So we've been in operation since 1970. So a long history in the community. Lots of kids. And so that speaks volume just know that it's second generation coming through. [23:25] **Bill Burns:** And in you—and the teachers that you have have been there quite a while too, which is unique. [23:32] **Stacy:** Style very fortunate to have really dedicated long-term staff and teachers. And uh, yeah in fact, we—a lot of our staff went there as children and um, or work for us part-time as you know, when they were in high school and then came back as teachers later. [23:53] **Bill Burns:** So and isn't it your—your right hand, Gail? [23:57] **Stacy:** Julie. Uh, she—she went there as a kid and this is now she's what, 21 now? Yeah, she's 21 now for that. Um, yeah. And then um, yes uh, came in as a high school student uh, working for us and then uh, progressed and went back to school and got her degree and you know she's our assistant director. So yeah, a win-win. [24:32] **Bill Burns:** We're lucky to have you guys here in the—in the city I think. Support. But I thought the visit was very beneficial. Thank you. The next one was just the other day at uh, Sergeant Pepper's. Everyone know where Sergeant Pepper's is? Okay, is that a yes? That was a yes. What never seen the middle of the pandemic. [Laughter] [25:01] **Bill Burns:** So Sergeant Pepper's is a mainstay here in Oakdale. So they've been here for a long, long time. Rob and Julie are the owners. Rob met with us and uh, along with the Mayor and Andy and uh, and Kim of course. Um, his... it was apparent that he's—he feels lucky to be in Oakdale. I think he really loves the community and uh, his clients—he's got many. Uh, it was like going into Cheers where you've got so many locals going in there and he knows them by name. [25:39] **Bill Burns:** We were—we were there on uh, was it Monday or Tuesday? Tuesday. Tuesday. And they're closed till three, but the doors were open. It's like a church. And so uh, locals were coming in and he had to turn them away and the—the—their faces were like "oh, now do we go?" So it was uh, they are loyal. Rob has a lot of uh, employees that have been with him for a long time, and that's unique to see in—in that line of work. Um, he—I mean along with any restaurant, they struggled during COVID, uh but he made it work with having the patio open, doing a lot of drive-up um, and that. And he's—he can see the light at the end of the tunnel with COVID passing by and getting everybody back to where they should be. Um, did I miss anything on that? [26:33] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Um, I think you hit it well. Um, maybe one of the things he mentioned too was just about his workforce and getting there. He does have one employee that you know, takes—takes the bus and walks you know, all the way over from from Hadley, which is quite a walk. And you know, a lot of part-time staff and some of them don't have licenses and they kind of work together or take Ubers. But he seemed to think uh, with—with the Gold Line coming in and if there's more local bus connections, that could help with recruiting into the future and filling those positions. So that was good to hear. [27:05] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Um, you know, but yeah he's done some recent investments in his building—the patio, uh upgraded the HVAC system, has some more work to do, fryer, things like that. Um, there might be a linkage with the Biz Recycling program that he can—he can take advantage of for some small grants. So I think it was really just a beneficial stop. And it was uh, one of the cool things I—I thought was we were giving out those emblems that you know, say "Thank you for growing your business in Oakdale," the oak tree. And he put it right up there on the bar next to the good whiskey. So I'll have to go back next time, order a shot or two. [27:46] **Bill Burns:** Uh, yes. Um, and going forward if you would like to be involved with these visits—I know you've been at least one. I'd like to open it up to to more members here. I'll step back a little bit. I've hit some of the ones I really wanted to hit, so just let me know after the meeting and I'll get you on the short list with—with Kim. And so when she sends the invitation to me, I can just say "no, please ask A, B, C, D, and E" and then we'll get you going. But they are worthwhile. [28:18] **Aaron:** Aaron—it's enlightening. Something like I found out Friday and travel on Sergeant Pepper's. Great. So I think Kim usually does have a better handle on it um, in regards to those, but I think with the business sometimes they dictate a lot of that. [28:38] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Yeah. It’s been you know, one of the things we've learned is the ones where there's already those good established relationships, either at the City or through mostly through the Chamber too, you know it's been easier to kind of get her put in. But some of the more corporate—not gonna name anyone, but you know it's been more of a challenge or it's kind of "we got you" and then it's like just this one spot. So that might be some of the ones we're getting the hours reaching maybe that second tier where we don't have as many direct connections, which is good—we need to build those connections as a city. But we'll take that to heart and try to make sure we get them scheduled and out there um, as soon as possible. [29:21] **Bill Burns:** Yeah. And I'll create what... Bill? [29:24] **Susan Olson:** I think it's been great to um, have the variety of people attend these too and be able to come back and—and report. We—we do the same script no matter what and ask the same questions so that the information stays consistent on these visits too. And Kim keeps us on track. And the same with Council too. It was one of the things that was pretty incredible is every member of the—the previous Council had been on a visit um, uh last year. And that's just a great kind of great sign too that the Mayor's done most, but you know, spreading that—spreading that around. [30:00] **Bill Burns:** Yeah, I agree. [30:02] **EDC Member:** Bill, I see he had Best Buy on the list here. You didn't make it to that one or what? [30:05] **Bill Burns:** They—uh, they had to cancel. But they were receptive to coming. They were uh, but I don't know, upper management uh, wasn't quite ready with the answers to the questions or something. We'll leave it at that. [30:16] **Aaron:** Um, I'll say that I'll just add to what you're saying. Going on these visits... the one I was on was at Hampton Inn. And that was... it was a short notice. I think I—I found out about that opportunity I think a day ahead of—days and notice on that one. And I was fortunate that I was able to rearrange my schedule that quick, but a lot of times I can't. So I'm—I’m understanding that. But if you are able to go, take advantage of that. It's very informative. Um, anybody heard my report from uh—uh from the Hampton Inn? Learned a lot. I saw a lot and understood a lot of the um, needs that the managers of Hampton Inn need. And I'm starting to hear a common theme, just as you explained, especially with Gold Line opportunities. Transportation, getting workers in—it's a common theme with some of these businesses. So I think as we analyze that data, we'll find places that we can start to focus and say "here's how we can expand in those opportunities, make it better." [31:11] **Bill Burns:** All right, thank you. Uh, shall we move to the uh, Tanner's Lake Redevelopment update? [31:18] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Yes, Mr. Chair. And all of a sudden, if—can we queue up the—the screen? [Wait, I don't know if I need to...] Must be a snowstorm. Yeah, look at there. Right. Maybe it's staff input here. Ah. So it's supposed to be a warm weekend. Um... Just working on it. We'll just take a moment here. [32:32] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Um, so so she's um, we're getting this queued up. So I think last time uh, at the meeting we had the—the brochure and we were kind of... we're gonna go out there and start talking to people and marketing this site and talking about um, past proposals. And—and um, you know since then I think we really have learned a lot. We've—we’ve done a lot of at—well over a dozen developer conversation and interest. And so this is the presentation we actually... it says January 10th City Council workshop on there because this is basically... I—I felt it was a good presentation for Council. It'd be great to bring you along to about some of those findings we had to date and get your reactions and feedback, as well as some you know, advice there on—on next steps as—as we move forward. [33:18] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Um, so I'm gonna just gonna go abbreviated through this um, since you know, we've talked about this before. But here's the site map of the Tanner's Parcels. It’s actually uh, it's actually two separate parcels: one—the north one's about half-acre, and the south one is about 2.25—2.25 acres. And I'll go through some of the background and then also talk about the—the development process as well. So there's an image for uh, what it looked like back in the day with both Blackie's and Toby's on those—on those southern parcels, and then the old auto glass place uh, in there in—in between. [33:57] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Um, this has been uh, identified as a redevelopment site and since that acquisition in '08 and then then the second parcel—the southern parcel—was purchased in in uh, in 2014. When the city went through its Comp Plan process in 2017-19, it got included as a future redevelopment site. In 2022, a couple things happened. This is again renewing the efforts, but also there is a Tax Increment Financing (TIF) surplus funds. Basically, districts that had revenue generated that was captured for those projects—that's already paid back everything. So that surplus, through special legislation, we can put into other projects as a—as a city. [34:47] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** So that's really that renewed opportunity. Also just having this project you know, on—off the tax rolls for so many years is you know, feel like the timing is right. The market there may be just a little bit of a window left here in 2023 to—to put something together to move forward. But yeah, past proposals have been—have been the gamut here. There's been medical office buildings uh, proposed. There's a hotel that was proposed pretty close right before COVID hit. And uh, the hotel market still hasn't recovered. There's a lot of interest in doing restaurant, both from this—from the city side as much as hiring a broker back in like '14. Um, but just it was a challenging site then for a restaurant. It really remains a challenging site now to be able to put a restaurant back in there. And there was multi-family proposals as well over—over time. [35:46] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** So recent efforts: we have the flyer that's—that’s in the—it's on our website. We went to the MnCAR Expo, had a booth there courtesy of County CDA and our partnership. We also hired a um, John Stark from Enduring Cities. He's a former Community Development Director over in Richfield and a lot of experience in projects like this knowing that you know, we have gaps in—in the knowledge, let's bring in the right people to make sure we're doing it right this time. And he was actually at the council meeting presenting too. [36:20] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** So you know, one of the things that um, we learn going through this or you know, kind of best practices as we take this next step of developing is how important that relationship is between the City and developer. We're not in a regulatory role in this project. They're not coming in for a permit and we're reviewing them as a City and making a decision. It really is a—a partnership. It's about mutually understanding expectations, um understanding that you know, the process is incremental. The need to be transparent both from a City perspective and a developer, not holding things from each other, uh and opened—uh honest feedback through this process. [37:06] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** And as that you know, relationship grows, I think I have a graphic of this you know, the—the unknowns um, start to become less and that—that level of commitment comes to—it becomes a uh, more of that formation of partnership. And this is kind of some of those examples of how that works. You know at first you know, there's not a lot of investment of a developer looking in. They're like, "Well, will it fit in here? What's the City looking for? What are the key issues? What's the market demand? What's the supply out there?" Um, you know, you start with just a back-of-the-envelope analysis and then it's like you do a concept plan and then a formal proposal. That's getting more and more invested. [37:47] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** And then at some point you need to, as a City and a developer, an exclusive rights agreement to say we're just going to work with one person on this. And then finally you get to that land sale and public financing piece and a partnership which delivers your project. So a lot of stuff's on the way. I say we're starting to finally kind of move off of uh, you know the—the end of the spectrum and down this—and down this pyramid. And I'll kind of give a snapshot of where we're at in a minute here. [38:19] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Um, I did include this in the—in the packet just for um, awareness and to—for your understanding of kind of the phases that come with redevelopment. Again, exploration is just the first step. Seeing what might work, drawing up a concept plan—that can be pretty much a sketch level—or putting a programmatic type exercise to see what might fit, what might not, what are the setbacks and things like that. Exclusive rights agreement: that's where you start working with one developer. Redevelopment contract: that's where you're really lining it out. A project like this will be a partnership because there needs to be a land sale—a transaction. There may be public financing that's involved, using—using TIF as part of it. And then again, um that's kind of the you know, the overall stages we're working through. [39:13] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Um, so yeah as we wrap up this exploration phase um, I mentioned we hired Enduring Cities. We reached out to more than 12 developers. We have three, possibly more, that are—that are um, really interested in putting together a proposal and submitting it. And we're going to start receiving those within the next—within the next uh, few weeks. I would say the big theme of what we're hearing is the multi-family project. So something that's probably a tuck-under with one level of parking and three to four stories. You know, maybe you could have some higher-end units that are closer uh, to the water to take advantage of those views. That seems to be the most dominant. [39:57] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Commercial becomes more of a challenge just with being able to get financing for that out in the marketplace that we'd love to see some of that to activate the site. You know, coffee shop... you know, a full-blown restaurant's probably not in the cards. But those sorts of things. As well as like public access—can uh, is there a walking path along—along the lake? Or is there a small—a small dock there? I mean is there... oh that's... can be publicly accessible. So those sorts of things. Just trying not to like set the City setting too hard of a "we want it to be this" and—and out of whack with what the market can support is what we're—what we're hearing. [40:42] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** So what we heard from developers: they love the site. Um, lake is really kind of this number one asset out there, that the views and everything. The surrounding area is you know, it's—it's just okay there. There hasn't been a lot of major investment in that area. So you know, oftentimes developers use the term "pioneering," so they're kind of the first project in. So that—that has some risk associated to it. Other just big vocational features: just the freeway system, 3M's Global headquarters across the street, Gold Line BRT coming in along the south along Hudson Boulevard. Um, you can get you know, this is kind of an overall theme in Oakdale—you can get to other places in—in our region pretty quickly. And and we're—we hear that a lot. [41:33] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Um, concerns we heard: lakeshore setbacks from the DNR, and we're working through that at a staff level. There is a sewer line bisecting the site that's going to need to get moved in order for development. Power lines is another one—they're overhead, they're on the Maplewood side, but we're trying to understand like what voltage level and whether that's something you know, you—you have to be far away, set back from, or if it's—or if it's something that can be worked around. [42:04] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Um, you know, honestly we did get honest feedback on here and several that had previous proposals that had gone through and—and just didn't—they didn't work out. And there's still a bad taste out there. So start of this process is you know, making uh—uh or letting developers know that you know, it's—there's new people. There's new people on the Council, there's me people on—there's new people on staff, there's new motivations to get something going here, that the climate has changed. So that's something we've been trying to get across as part of this progress. [42:43] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** And then uh, also just concerns about you know, how—if there is a funding gap. Redevelopment is—is difficult. It's oftentimes uh, you know soils, site remediation, demo—that they add costs that make it much more difficult than like a Greenfield site that—that comes before. And then the economy concerns: material costs, um interest rates going higher. There's a lot of developments they're starting to pause around the region. Um, it seems to be that... and—and Carrie could probably elaborate in this... but like financing is—is more difficult. Uh, banks are wanting more money down. So that it doesn't mean that projects can't happen, it just means that people need to be more selective. They maybe they could do two or three before and now they're doing one or two. [43:29] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Um, public financing um, in itself... I kind of hit on this point that you know, this is something that would be needed for a Greenfield site um, the structured parking, relocating utilities, dealing with the bad soils, you know other unknowns that come along with redevelopment. Um, you know one of the things that this slide is—gets at here is that public financing itself is not so much uh, you know what dollar amount is a developer going to get from the City and they're trying to get the most—the most out of it and we need to you know, come with our checkbook and... you know, there's a lot more science to it. We would ask anybody to open up their books to show us where their sources of money are coming from and their uses and their proforma. And we would go through that to basically make sure that if there's any money that's provided as assistance, you're providing only what's needed and not a dollar more. And that's where the City has a financial advisor that—Baker Tilly—that helps us review these. We bring in you know, we have good staff, we have a great Finance Director, but having that independent eye as part of the process. [44:37] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** So that was a lot. Next steps: um, the criteria here are what we're going to evaluate proposals based on. Financial capacity: where's the developer's money coming from? What types of projects have they done in the past of a similar scope and scale? What's their team makeup, who's—who's part of it? What are they requesting as far as assistance, and what's—what's going to be the benefit to the public from that? And then the ability to maximize the site or sites that you know, um and the intensity of uses. Inclusion of public amenities also be the things we'll be looking at. And then lastly, timeline for—for completion. [45:26] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** So that was kind of a—it's kind of a lot. Um, we're working through this. I think mid-February we hope to get some proposals back and make a recommendation to Council if there's a development team that we think that... an exclusive rights agreement again, giving them the ability to be the only one we work with for a while. I think we're looking at the end of February or early March for that—for that time frame. Uh, any kind of questions on—on Tanner's? Additional thoughts, ideas? I listened to the tape from last time too and kind of heard back on some of... there's some really good feedback as well there. [46:12] **Bill Burns:** So there was a pretty good article in the paper last Sunday and the trip... I think it was on that development project. Did you see that? [46:21] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Yeah. [46:22] **Bill Burns:** Pioneer Press. What was... [46:24] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Press, okay. [46:25] **Bill Burns:** Yeah, that was a good article. I mean it was... but let it be known that their property is available, so that was pretty good. What is it right now? What is it listed for as far as price and yeah? [46:38] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Uh, we don't have a price listed per se. The city all-in and it's both sites is 2.4 million. Uh, we are out for an appraisal of those parcels. That's one of the big things is we need to know what the actual value is on these. I—I will say it's—it’s not going to value at what the City original investment paid for it for that property. But yeah, that's—that's where we're at. We'll probably have that appraisal finalized with—within a few weeks too, so we want to share that with developers. [47:18] **Bill Burns:** And do you think that the three mentioned three developers, are they all looking at just the multi-family setup right now? [47:26] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Um, all of them are looking at that as the predominant use. Um, we've heard some interest in you know, "can you get some retail? A coffee shop?" We've passed forward the—the contact for the—for the bait shop to—to all of them too if there's a—a partnership that can be reached. Um, but yeah predominantly—uh predominantly that multi-family Roselle show. That's really where the—the market is seeing this site, at least in the foreseeable future. [48:04] **Aaron:** Those things, but has there been much yeah other as far as... [48:08] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Great—great question. Yeah, there has been some of that kind of due-diligence work done um, for environmental. I believe there is a early environmental assessment. I think the biggest thing out there not—not necessarily contamination, but the southern part has some poor soils that are—that are known that—that may limit what can either be built or—or would require some remediation. So there's some of that work. We've done an Alta survey. Um, you know we have some market data you know. So what we've done is we've actually packaged that information up on—uh on our Dropbox file. And anybody who's interested, we send them all the same—the same thing. [48:47] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** So same thing like anybody um, if there's—if there's contacts or connections you know, as I'll say that as crazy as they may seem, just you know, send them our way as staff and we'll—we'll—we'll follow up. We'll look into it um, as we—as we move forward here. Because like I said, there might be these kind of partnerships as part of a bigger project to get something in like in Blue Ribbon made. [49:15] **EDC Member:** Are there any businesses that just... as I pass this along and talk to some of my clients and stuff, I'm just wondering if there's anything that just um... [49:25] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Because yeah you know, it—I—I think commercial type—commercial retail office... I don't see us that being as big of a draw. But certainly if that could be incorporated part of a project, I think it's a plus. Um, you know, I think it's more of a scale thing. You know, a one-story single building on the site probably isn't going to be enough to help to defray our costs in land or generate enough you know, increment to—to justify an investment on its own. So it's—it’s more about... it's as much about scale of a project as it is about the—the user. But yeah, like industrial type uses where like that sort of use wouldn't really be compatible, or—or like three lots that are like million-five mansions you know, probably not that either. [50:11] **Carrie Frost:** Any other questions? I can't remember if I asked last time we presented that um, for the previous era when—when things weren't—didn't work out. So what were some of the reasons that we're given as to why projects fell through? [50:29] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Um, a lot of it was—was just market conditions changing. I mean this goes back to the Great Recession some when the first parcel was—was bought. Or even COVID with that hotel deal. Um, I did mention you know, it's—it’s not—it's—it’s a irregular-shaped site and has some initial investment to go in. So there were a couple proposals where uh, one a developer came and the ask of the City was deemed too great. You know, and that's one of those things too. There's—at what point do you walk away? And I think that was one of those arrangements where the numbers just couldn't make sense. [51:10] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** But yeah, it—it's... I get that question a lot and—and a lot of developers are kind of looking at it. And it's—it’s really surprising that it—it's more surprising that it hasn't developed in this long than the fact that you know, that there's some—that there's something that we're not—we're not seeing here. [51:30] **Bill Burns:** Okay. Any other questions? Okay. Thank you, Andy. That was—that was very informative. Uh, next is election of Chair and Vice Chair. Andy, I'm going to lean on you for as far as how we handle this going forward. [51:48] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Yeah, if you look in the—if you look in the packet um, as current Chair, the first thing you would do is basically just follow that along and um, motion—have a motion to nominate, ask for a motion to nominate a candidate. And then after that um, ask if there are any other nominations. If there's—that you take those nominations and once we take the nominations then that can be closed and then we'll do the—the same thing for Vice Chair. And then I actually have a—a little ballot here um, that I'll hand out that you can just write them down and then give them to me and then I'll tally up the votes and we'll go from there. [52:28] **Bill Burns:** Okay. We'll have—see if there's any nominations for Chair position. [52:33] **Dave Halper:** So I'm going to nominate my good friend Bill Burns. As he's in my opinion he's done a wonderful job. He's uh, knows what he's talking about. Crushes me to say that, but I know why. So either way, I would nominate Bill Burns to do the chair job uh, one more year. This is a year project, isn't it? [52:56] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** One year. [52:57] **Dave Halper:** One year. Okay. So I nominate Bill Burns for uh, another year of team Chair. [53:03] **EDC Member:** I will second that. [53:04] **Bill Burns:** AC seconded. Is there any other nominations? Okay. Um, we're going to close the nominations then for the position for Chair and then um, election using the ballot providing commissions write their choice for the—for the Chair uh, election. We're going to go to a... for the Vice Chair then, is that right? [53:32] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Yeah, let's—let's do the Vice Chair and then we'll do count the votes. [53:35] **Bill Burns:** Okay. Yeah, who is it? Vice Chair right now? I am. You are. Yeah. Are you willing to do it again? [53:44] **Dave Halper:** Sure. [53:45] **EDC Member:** All right. I'll nominate Dave Halper for Vice Chair. But if someone else is interested... [53:51] **EDC Member:** I will second that. [53:52] **Bill Burns:** Is there any other...? [Applause] Um, ocean for second chair Vice Chair at this time. Okay, are we supposed to be filling these in then? Is this... yeah. [54:14] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Do we need the ballots if we're... I mean if you could please, yeah. Fill the ballots and hand them to me and then I'll... we’re sticklers. Yeah. Hand them by me to make sure I look at them. The suspense is killing us. You're fine. Don't look. [Applause] So do you count them now and we uh, think of voters this...? [54:53] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Well I think it's... this is the actual vote. So if you give me a moment here I'll just—I'll tally these up. [55:01] **Dave Halper:** Is this like the mayorship, Frank, where you get one name in there that you're nominated ones? One thing, one time. [55:08] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Uh, Mr. Chair I have the tally. [55:10] **Bill Burns:** Yes. [55:11] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Uh, 10 votes for um, Bill Burns as Chair and 10 votes for uh, Dave Halper as Vice Chair. Unanimous. So that would—that would pass. [55:22] **Dave Halper:** Okay. Oh darn, I wanted to be Chair. [55:25] **Bill Burns:** Yeah. Well thank you all. One more year. Congratulations. Well, let's keep moving. Oh do I make a motion to elect Bill Burns as commissioner? [55:41] **Bill Burns:** Yes. Let's do those. And myself, Dave Halper, as—as Chair and myself as Vice Chair of the Economic Development Commission for one year commencing with February 1st meeting. In a second? [55:53] **EDC Member:** I'll second. [55:54] **Bill Burns:** Uh, all in favor? [55:56] **Commission:** Aye. [55:57] **Bill Burns:** Opposed? Passed. Okay, thank you. Yep. So Andy, do we want to go to the Twin Cities residential real estate market conditions? [56:10] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And I know I've been talking a while tonight and I'll try to just give my key takeaways from looking at some of this—this data. But I was at this presentation earlier this month and um, I just thought it was really beneficial and timely. So I put the entire presentation in the packet um, for this. [56:32] **Bill Burns:** That's why it's so thick. [56:34] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Yeah. It felt like good enough information that we're perusing. But then I—I'll just kind of go through what I think are some key findings and then maybe just open it up for a dialogue among uh, commissioners. And I stripped all the uh, jokes and little things out of this presentation, so you just get the dry part from me. [56:56] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Um, I think just some of the key takeaways... and the reason I like this one too, I mean it is from the Minnesota Real Estate you know, Realtor, so there is a rosy lens through a lot of this stuff. But it did compare it back um, basically going back to '03 and a lot of the data because I think we lose perspective a lot. You read a paper and it's like "well, residential sales were down 40%." Well year-over-year from last year in December, it's like well what—what is it from two years ago? Or from... how does this compare to like '08 when you know, from the—from the bottom that was there? [57:35] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Um, that being said, here are some of the key takeaways that—that I took away from this: is that we are still um, we are still in a—sell—a seller's market here. There is a limited inventory for housing out there is between um, one and a half and uh—and and uh two-month supply out there. Ah, there's some pop-up that's blocking my stuff. Um, one of the things that—that MLS tracks is showing... showings is kind of like an earlier indicator of showings. And then you have purchase agreements and you actually have deals um, deals closed. [58:14] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** I think one of the things interesting is showings is down, and it's down most dramatically in these lower price categories, which makes sense with—with interest rate—with the interest rates. For people are most sensitive when you have more of a um—uh more of a standard income, I might say. Um, and the prices are just going off... real estate, there's just not as many properties. But you'll start to see that—that trend actually starts to level out and flip the other way when you get to about the 400,000 to 500,000 range where actually the activity and the showing is up on those products. Um, signed contracts—those are down about um, 20 to 30 percent to—to where they were the—the year previously. [59:04] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Again that—that comes after showings. Uh, changing in—in—in new listings by price range. So again, the—the more um, sensitive to price change it is in interest rates, those products are—there's less of them being listed on the market. But the more higher end, or I guess the "new normal" as being um, continues to—to be a growth area. And then again the—the sales range: everything is down. This is December to December. This is again that 40% stat from 2022 to 2021. 39.7% down in overall sales. But again the biggest categories are in those—those sort of 150 to—to 350 range—range homes. [59:58] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Uh, just a note there about you know, the supply is structural. You only can build you know, there's only so much housing being built. And the demand is like cyclical as we go forward. So this is the stuff that I like that jumped out to me. New listings annual: if you start to look at um, you know where we are compared to you know, the previous year, we are seeing you know a 10 percent uh, drop-off. But you know compared to you know previous years, we're not—we're not too far off the—the overall average over time. [1:00:36] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Um, another thing too is is um, closed sales. So the amount of sales that are down. Again, were you know, 2021 is kind of this anomaly where it was like this peak year where uh, you had prices, you had record—record sales. And we're starting to trend down to more of maybe historic averages in overall sales. Um, days on the market: this is back to that original... well similar to the original piece about like you know, how much supply housing is out there. You know, the average property is out there uh, 14—14 days compared to like you know, Great Recession was like 64, 100 days. So there still is that—that you know, reiterates that this is a—this is a seller's market. [1:01:31] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Uh, median sale price: again you can kind of see the last time this dropped and bottomed out in '11 is kind of been steadily um, growing along with this. And—and one of the things that I—I think the next slide I put in here has the... okay, so that this is the... I'll flip back and forth here. So this is the—the overall—the overall growth and this doesn't take into effect like inflationary costs and—in that—in the natural growth curve. [1:02:04] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** But you see that even in 2022, prices went up about 6.6 percent. And you start to look at this graph compared to this one goes back to '04 and the year-over-year sale on median price where you had drops of like 25 percent in '09. Um, where we're at now and the changes, they're just not you know, as really as dramatic as those were. This was not... I have one in here that's adjusted... okay, I think I got one in here that's adjusted yet. [1:02:37] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** And then this is another one too like you know, you're starting to think about when's a good time to list or buy or sell. Like average percentage of original list price received: 2022 is like one percent less than listing. 2021 was two percent greater, which is kind of an anomaly again getting back to it. So are we like reverting back to...? Doesn't look like we're reverting back to '08, '09, but like to 2019, 2020 um, seems like a more realistic kind of picture where we might be headed. [1:03:15] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Again this is this—this idea of uh, months of supply. When people—you always hear "there's just this much, there's six months of supply out there." When you have like less than six months, um then it's—then it becomes that seller's market. When you have more than six, it becomes the buyer's market. And like I said, we're at like a month-and-a-half supply right now. Um, again yeah here's that—here's that indicator, which is you know, pretty consistent of where it's been since—since like 2015 of all that with the supply housing. [1:03:52] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** I'm gonna skip over this one real quick. So I think what's—what's kind of happening right now is there's—there's kind of a cooling of the housing market with you know, sellers um, you know thinking that they're gonna get you know the best, the highest dollar for their property if they list it now. And then buyers are thinking like "oh, you know we're going into a recession, we're going to get this great deal." And like you know, deals are just not happening. There's just not as many transactions happening right now. [1:04:26] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** And probably the biggest one... okay, the blue line here, that's the 30-year fixed interest rate, and the other one's pending sales. So going up to the seven percent—that's really what's—what’s you know, slowing this—this down, in particular in the—the more either affordable or mid-level. The high-level stuff, those sales are gonna keep going because people aren't as sensitive to those—to those interest rates. [1:05:04] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** And then this was that slide I was talking about before about inflation-adjusted prices. So this is putting the into 2022 dollars. So the—the blue one would be like if you're going back to '04, '05, you can see how—how big that—that um—that gap was there in housing costs and how like you know, right now we're kind of like just neck-and-neck with um, the inflationary cost. So there's not this big—this big gap where the housing market is you know, overpriced compared to where—where—where—where incomes are. [1:05:43] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** And then that just really attracts to a lot of this being supply-side. This is commodities in short supply versus commodities going up in price. So construction industry: lumber, gasoline... you know, as all those prices are going up, that's what's pushing you know, a lot of these—these costs higher as opposed to that kind of induced-demand piece. [1:06:05] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** And then a couple more pieces of perspective is like interest rates at seven. You know, we're kind of getting back to more historic norms you know, of—of uh where that was, and you know comparing that to like the late '70s and early '80s and where interest rates once were before. Um, so and they always say like one of the things about raising interest rates is you raise them so you can kind of lower them again at some point. Um, so it puts it in perspective, but that curve and that stopping of the market, we're definitely seeing that. You know, we're seeing that in some of the—the rate of construction and health sales like in Willowbrook. You know, it's still moving but not quite as it was in—in uh in 2022. [1:06:50] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Um, let's see. So yeah, so this is basically you know, we've had all these low rates which has allowed a lot of people to finance housing. But at the same time you know, the um, with the interest rates going up monthly payment is now going up you know, third... it's like a 36 percent increase in monthly payment with this. So it kind of wipes out um, some of those gains. [1:07:14] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** This is a good one: compares us to the rest of the region. Um, house price appreciation over the past 12 months. So it—Minneapolis is... our region is... the swings aren't quite as great. I think that's a lot of the national categories is like you know, we—we—we're not trying to... what I'm trying to—to... I forgot what I was trying to say here. But um, you know, we're—we're basically less than what the national um is as far as houses rising in cost to be able to come down. We've been more steady up here in our—in our region than elsewhere. [1:08:04] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** And then—and then new construction is of that overall market of those listings is holding it about—about 13 percent. And you know, we talk about again things like a month-and-a-half of—or a month-and-a-half of inventory and being a seller's market, that there definitely still is a demand out there for new construction. And then condos—that's still been like in townhomes, multi-family, that's still been hovering at like a quarter of the market. So it's pretty consistent over time. Like it—I think we—we see a lot of new projects and the big ones are the multi-family are like "wow, that's a lot of multi-family," but it still only is about a quarter of that market share for the—for the townhomes. [1:08:49] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** And then distress foreclosures: uh, we're not seeing that like we were you know, '08, '09, '10, '11. Uh, trends more beds—so bigger housing. You know, four-bedroom. In our Comp Plan we did... we were talking about three-bedroom and apartments and you know, people wanting that extra space, whether that's for an office now, um is coming forward. Just bigger houses, people... this is the percentage of all sales that had greater than 2500 being a—a trend uh going forward. [1:09:30] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** I think a lot of this was hit already about like: is this 2008 all over again? And at least this presentation is kind of concluding that you know, it isn't. Um, you know there's some key factors like credit score: people that are getting loans are people that are worthy of getting loans, and you know people are employed right now. So you know, that is not as much of a—as issue as it was back then. 376 billion dollars in sub-620 loans versus 74 billion in 2020. You know, cash-out refinancing um, as a percentage of all mortgages. 90% of people were doing it '06; they're at 38% now. Four of the last six recessions um, saw rising house prices. So like 2008 is kind of a—and somewhat an anomaly here um, you know with—with housing prices actually falling during that. [1:10:25] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** And then there's just some conclusions here about you know, what—what it might look like here into the future which aren't—aren’t mine, so I'm not going to go into them. So that—that's—that's what I wanted to share. And thought that with everybody around the dais here, you have different you know, experiences, areas. And if uh, just open it up for just comments, general discussion on the topic. [1:10:52] **Carrie Frost:** No, one thing to point out is that um, this is all from like 2021, 2022, so we were in unprecedented times at that point. So that's why there's a lot of stagnation in kind of the market as it is. Because you have the economic indicators saying that there's maybe a recession, you have economists saying that there may be a recession, but the numbers really aren't showing it because of the pandemic. So there's a lot of just kind of standstill. And then of course the monetary policy and the economic cycles are just going to always be the way that they are. There's not anything we can do about that. [1:11:32] **Dave Halper:** Well put. Anyone else? I you know, we're predicting a recession as well and that's what we're kind of looking at um, nothing like 2008. But you know, the Fed has control. I mean because of the interest rates are so tied to that, the Fed has control to adjust those rates as needed. And yeah, we don't have the subprime mortgages and everything, so it'll be an interesting few years but we're nothing—nothing like 2008 is the expectation. Um, and that's what I remember from back in that time, 2008, is that I remember I broke her ahead at the time says "yeah, don't worry we had all your stuff's mortgage-backed securities and mortgages aren't going to go down." And guess what happened? Yeah, they went down. You better look into the history on that and actually what happened before. Because what—I’m not going to go—however, the housing market was essentially set up to fail and that's what was happening. So there were balloons and that's where we were at. So lesson learned at this point. I think the big word I heard was a subprime loans. What are those? Well yeah, like the credit score you just showed up there. A lot of those really shouldn't have... they didn't have the facilities or the—they didn't have the way to pay those loans back. And that was a big part of it. This evening, ARMs are looking good for the first time in 15 years though. [1:13:08] **Aaron:** So does Oakdale still have first-time home buyer funds? [1:13:12] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Um, we partner with uh, through Minnesota Housing with the Minnesota Cities Partnership Program. So that's the one we have going on right now. Basically um, they use our tax-exempt status to issue bonds. So we're one of like maybe—maybe it's close to 100 communities around the state that participate in that. So um, yeah that would be the number one source we put people to is is program worth they do all the... we don't see the loans, we just get the numbers of how many they're issued in the value and we're not on the risk if—if somebody doesn't pay then. [1:13:50] **Dave Halper:** One of the graphs up there was showing the size of the homes are bigger and bigger and bigger. Is—are we seeing the same thing with our developments to the North or...? I mean, is it four bedrooms? Are the condos three bedrooms? Do we know? [1:14:04] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Um, yeah I have to check if they're three or four. I think a lot of them are going in and four, like in Willowbrook—the single-family homes. Yeah. I mean the house is bigger but the lots aren't you know, that's the other thing. The lots aren't what you know, they used to be and they're designed in a way that you're not going to have excess in—in one lot versus another. Uh, but definitely seeing—seeing that trend. And then that idea of the—the three-bedroom for rental um, being one developers may not want to do as much just because you know, they can't get as much you know, renting a bunch of three-bedrooms versus getting more total units with two-bedroom and one-bedroom um, is more advantageous to them. But the demand is there. [1:14:52] **EDC Member:** One-story as well? I feel like with aging Boomers it seems like there's a big increase. I was surprised in my brother's community in Woodbury, two-bedroom 1800 square-foot single-story, you were going for over 500,000. So yeah, there is still a demand there I feel like. [1:15:10] **Dave Halper:** You see ouch. Yeah. I finally you're interested in the Lennar project over North Oakdale. They have on the west south side a lot of townhouses. I mean they're—but they're like two—two—three stories. And I'm thinking they're meant for older people, I would assume? Why would you want a three—two—three story? [1:15:35] **EDC Member:** It’s my younger families can't afford a 400,000 dollar single-family home at six-and-a-half percent. So I feel like... I think that's changed over the... delay younger. So it isn't for old people anymore, huh? [1:15:53] **EDC Member:** Not necessarily, nope. [1:15:55] **Dave Halper:** If you are, you're in shape. [Music] Yeah, that's what it is. Burn your calories. [1:16:04] **Bill Burns:** I thought that was very informative. Is starting to come back now. Yep. Anyone—any other questions for Andy? [1:16:16] **Aaron:** I need to step out. I've got a family member that's stranded in a parking ramp with a car problems you know. [1:16:22] **Bill Burns:** Go take care of that. [1:16:23] **Aaron:** Yeah, I apologize. [1:16:24] **Bill Burns:** We've already voted GN so you're fine. Okay, um well then next we'll move to the Commissioner updates. And Carrie, what this is is just where we go around the table and if you've got anything to um, add to what you've seen in the city or around or anything going on that you think we should know or uh, the wild, wild world should know. Uh, this is where it's time to do that. So um, and Lucia—did I pronounce that right? [1:17:05] **Lucia:** Lucia. [1:17:06] **Bill Burns:** Lucia? I should have asked you. Frank—Lucia? There we go. Have you got anything for us tonight? [1:17:12] **Lucia:** Um, no not tonight. [1:17:13] **Bill Burns:** Okay. Well really my goal is to get here on time next time. It's two in a row. Who's counting? And when you—when you come with just 30 seconds or a minute late it really hurts, but yeah. Yeah. But nothing other than that. Nothing like 30—20 minutes late. [1:17:34] **Frank:** Yeah, the Bobs were bringing up the backend tonight. Yeah, I was stuck in a meeting and didn't realize what time it was, but I—I made it finally. That's all I know. [1:17:46] **Bill Burns:** Okay. All right. Um, Carrie any...? [1:17:51] **Carrie Frost:** Well, just thanks for having me and this is really informative, so I glad to be here. [1:17:56] **Bill Burns:** Good. [1:17:57] **EDC Member:** I've got nothing to add. [1:18:00] **Aaron:** I do. I know you do. I was fortunate enough um, uh recently my wife was able to attend a um, I think it was a Chamber of St. Paul Chamber Commerce a presentation by Minneapolis a senior vice president and director of research. His name is Andrea Raffle. And it was really informative listening to him talk and—and just what is able to let us know his—his opinions. Though I remember his opinions were his own opinions—he didn't speak for the Board of Directors or the you know, people that set the interest rates. [1:18:41] **Aaron:** But he's got insight and it was interesting just to listen to him talk. He sees a couple things he saw was um, inflation he thought would level out by the indicators that they have you know, the research that they have. This is most likely... somebody asked him while they're going to raise rates... well you know, he's not in that group that makes that decision. But he says uh, based on what he's seen and most likely he expects a another rate increase this year. Um, but he does... he expects it to be slower and not as many. So last year we had what you know, 5,000 rate increases? He might be two. That was my guess. It was just his guess. Um, I'm actually trying to get some time with him to sit with him over a coffee and see how that goes. So we're having some... we're just missing our schedules right now. So we may get there. If I do and I have some good stuff to report, I'll bring it back. [1:19:50] **Bill Burns:** Okay, thank you. I want to move on to you, Frank. [1:19:54] **Frank:** I have nothing to report. [1:19:55] **Bill Burns:** Okay. We'll keep moving on. [1:19:57] **EDC Member:** We also have nothing to report. [1:19:59] **Bill Burns:** Stace? [1:20:00] **Stacy:** Um, nothing. Well we have the Chamber and meeting tomorrow. [1:20:06] **Bill Burns:** Yes we do. [1:20:07] **Stacy:** And we have a couple great speakers from the Saint Paul Chamber talking about Governor Walz's proposals, so that should be interesting. Am I right? [1:20:18] **Bill Burns:** Yes it is. You nailed it. So we have that going on. Um, there's also next Tuesday as a—a tribute event going on over at Oak Marsh. And what that is is it's a uh—um, it's really an event put on uh, that Steve over at Oak Marsh thought of this... was it five years ago? About that. Yeah, when um, he just thought that the police, the fire, our veterans uh, needed something to say "hey, thank you in our community." And so he just started it up. And a lot of us, the business leaders uh, said "okay, we'll pay for the tickets for all these vets and—and police and fire" and so just to thank them for the—the hard work that they do. Uh, and so I think right now we have well over 60 people coming for next Tuesday. So there's still room. All you have to do is get a hold of Steve. Go to their Oak Marsh's website and you can enlist right there. [1:21:26] **Bill Burns:** Other than that, that's all I have. We'll move on to let's see... the Community Development Department updates. [1:21:32] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** Uh, Mr. Trab nothing to report, but happy to answer any questions. [1:21:38] **Bill Burns:** Okay. I think you've done a lot of speaking. [1:21:40] **Andrew Gitzlaff:** I don't know, I'm sick of hearing myself. [1:21:42] **Bill Burns:** Oh. All right. Well if that's the case then we're going to go to Susan, please. Susan Olson, Council Liaison. I just like saying the word "liaison." [1:21:54] **Susan Olson:** Hey, welcome to Carrie by the way. Thank you. Um, the only thing I really have to mention is we're still accepting applications for the open Council position until February 7th, which I think is Tuesday next week, 4:00 PM. [1:22:15] **Aaron:** Oh how does that work? A resident of the city of Oakdale could apply, and then how does that person get chosen? [1:22:25] **Susan Olson:** So then we're going to do interviews okay for all those people. And then we have to come to a—a decision and then appoint them. [1:22:36] **Aaron:** In that period would be... how long would they be on the Council? [1:22:38] **Susan Olson:** Uh, two years. Yeah, two years. And then in 2024 they have to go out for election, right? So they're just basically filling in um, Kevin Zabel's spot. Yep. [1:22:54] **Aaron:** Sorry, will you be interviewing all candidates or...? [1:22:58] **Susan Olson:** Well I believe so. Believe so, yeah. Unless there's hundreds, we won't have time. [1:23:05] **Aaron:** In the past haven't they considered the person with the next closest level of votes that was missed in the past? [1:23:13] **Susan Olson:** I believe so yes, and—and yes we are considering that as well. The—no decision's been made on that. [1:23:22] **Aaron:** Oh no, no. So it's not a foregone conclusion that the Council is going to pick some resident of Oakdale. It just says... I'd like it, right? I guess I don't... well because I'm just wondering that um, choosing the path you're going to take so you're not vested and committed into choosing somebody that nominates themselves? Is that... that's my question. So you're not going to commit to choose somebody through that process that you do have this fallback option? Is that correct? Or no? That's not a trick question, I'm just one... okay, this looks like you're like "man, I'm not quite sure." So you mean if we don't—if we don't agree on someone through the application process, do we have a fallback where we get point somebody right? [1:24:06] **Susan Olson:** Yes, absolutely. Okay, yep. [1:24:10] **Aaron:** Okay yeah. Because I... it just it strikes me as somebody who ran for the office and got a lot of votes versus somebody just coming in last-minute and volunteering. You know, there's some I think some more credibility in somebody that really ran for it and put in the time and the effort you know. Just a personal opinion, I don't know. [1:24:34] **Susan Olson:** And that will be part of the decision making, yes. [1:24:36] **Aaron:** Okay, yep. So you said to you you're weighing these different uh, potentials here? Is that correct? Different methods of doing it? [1:24:45] **Susan Olson:** No, so right now we're accepting applications. Okay, so that's open to anybody, huh? Anybody who lives in Oakdale, yes. Okay, and then what—then what's the plan after that? That we do all the interviews and then as a Council we decide on who we're going to appoint. [1:25:05] **Aaron:** And again, like he said, usually you take the person that got the most—second most votes last time. Wouldn't that make more sense? Or what are you thinking about that or what? [1:25:14] **Susan Olson:** Oh that's part... yeah, that's definitely part of the decision. Yeah. [1:25:18] **EDC Member:** So I think what the confusion is here is all of the new people are also in this pool along with the people that were also voted for. So now we have a really big pool of a whole bunch of people to pick from. Or you might not have a big pool. Or illustrative purpose purposes, yes. [1:25:35] **EDC Member:** And those that ran and got a lot of votes might... the Council might consider that you know, weigh that pretty heavily in—in their decision. They may not, I don't know. But it could be part of their decision, sure. [1:25:52] **Susan Olson:** Right now, I can't speak for everybody, but I would say that it is part of the decision-making process for all of us. [1:26:01] **Aaron:** What they have to reapply? [1:26:02] **Susan Olson:** Yes. [1:26:03] **Aaron:** Okay. I guess there's the clarification. [1:26:04] **Susan Olson:** Oh okay, okay. So it's not an automatic appointment. It's just for taking all the applications and seeing who's the best fit by doing the interviews. [Music] Either so good for all, good process I would think. [1:26:24] **Bill Burns:** They would say if they declined me... it's America, you can't be forced to do it. America, right? [1:26:30] **Susan Olson:** Um, also just to piggyback on the brand stuff, we also did the ribbon cutting at um, Central Bark on Friday, which was awesome. So I'm just gonna say you guys, if you can attend some of these for sure. It’s fun, great people, it's a great facility. And if you love dogs, you should go check it out there. That was great. [1:26:55] **Bill Burns:** Yeah, that's a really fun facility. Definitely, the dogs have got it really good over there. EW. [1:27:03] **Susan Olson:** And the ice cream on Saturday was great. Wasn't back ice cream? Yeah, they had the free—they had the open house on Saturday. I heard they expected like 70 and it was double that for people to show up. So yeah. Yep, great facility. And—and there's a community of people who love dogs, and it's so nice to be around that community in there. Everybody was so happy and it was just great. It was a great atmosphere and a great place. [1:27:35] **Bill Burns:** I think yeah, it'll be fun. It's good to see someone in that building. I hope they—they're wildly successful. [1:27:42] **Susan Olson:** I do too. It sure looks like they're going to be. [1:27:44] **Bill Burns:** I thought but new puppies there because they're quite innate out there. I know I'm getting a new puppy this year too, hopefully. Wow. The questions though... you don't need to know about my puppies unless you want to know. Too late now. Any other questions? Thank you. Thank you. All right, well let's see. Should we make a motion to adjourn? [1:28:13] **EDC Member:** I will move we adjourn. [1:28:15] **Bill Burns:** Excellent. All in favor? [1:28:17] **Commission:** Aye. [1:28:18] **Bill Burns:** Opposed? Thank you for coming. We'll see you next time. Okay.