This transcript has been formatted with speaker names based on the official municipality roles and the context of the dialogue. **Note:** The original transcript mentions a "Councilmember Goodwin." However, based on the provided list of officials and the context of the discussion (particularly the background in Human Service consulting), this speaker is **Councilmember Tom Melander**. *** [0:00] [Music] [0:46] **Mayor Clint Hooppaw:** Good evening. We'll call this meeting to order for the August 24th, 2023, Apple Valley City Council meeting. I'd like to welcome everyone and note for any members in the audience who have signed up to speak: as your name is called, please approach the podium to address the Council. The first item on our agenda is the Pledge of Allegiance, and I would ask everyone to rise and join us in the pledge. [Pledge of Allegiance] [1:26] **Mayor Clint Hooppaw:** All right, thank you. The next item on our agenda is to approve the agenda. And Tom, I know we have a couple updates this evening? [1:28] **Tom Lawell (City Administrator):** Yes, Mr. Mayor and Council, good evening. We do have one additional item—actually, an updated item. This is item number seven on your agenda, an updated calendar of upcoming events; you’ll have that in front of you. We also have a handout for someone who we know is going to speak under the audience portion of the agenda tonight. We'll come to that here shortly. [1:47] **Mayor Clint Hooppaw:** Wonderful, thank you. With that, do we have a motion to approve the agenda? [1:51] **Mayor Clint Hooppaw:** Motion from Councilmember Grendahl and a second from Councilmember Melander. All in favor indicate by saying aye. (Group: Aye). Opposed? That item carries. The next item on our list is the audience participation portion of the meeting. This is for items not on the agenda. We have a total of 10 minutes for this item, and I’d like to first welcome up Joel Keikbush. I think we've got a slide ready for his deal if we want to pull this up, because he was kind enough to write it for us so we didn't have to deal with the camera in the front. If you want to go ahead and start. [2:25] **Joel Keikbush (Warrior 196 Leadership Foundation):** Go ahead and search that right here in just a second. I'm Joel Keikbush. I'm from the Warrior 196 Leadership Foundation. We're a small foundation in Apple Valley, Eagan, and Rosemount. For 10 years, we've been putting on a 5K that honors five graduates from ISD 196 who were killed in action between 2006 and 2011 in Afghanistan and Iraq. The scholarship dollars that we raise go back into the school district to the four comprehensive high schools in the form of scholarships. In the past 10 years, we've done about 150,000 worth of scholarship dollars back into the kids in 196. I'm also a retired teacher from Eastview High School. So it seems kind of weird that I'm here standing, I'm from Rosemount talking to you guys about a race in Eagan. That being said, we do rotate the race; it's been in Rosemount High School and it's been at all four of the high schools twice. So this is our—we're kicking back around for our third round now, and it's up to Eagan. Next year, it'll come back down to Eastview. I just want to raise this as an awareness. It's a great event. It's a great community event. We usually have some of the Gold Star families that come out to the event and they are incredibly appreciative to see that the communities of Apple Valley, Rosemount, and Eagan have not forgotten their sons. If you look into our website which is at the bottom of the card, warrior196.org, there is a little dossier on each of the kids. These are some tremendous kids, and as a teacher, we as educators say you should live your lives above and beyond, and these kids listened to us. Sadly, their lives were cut short in their service to the country. So again, it was just to pop in and say if we could get a little PSA to get some folks registered for the race, that'd be great. Thanks. [4:31] **Mayor Clint Hooppaw:** Joel, thank you. I appreciate it. I have... this is a well-put-on event. I've done this for, I've lost count, five or six of the last 10 years they have done this. We usually have a nice showing from our fire department out there as well to support this. And so, yeah, I'm sure the rest of our local cities are watching this, but it’ll be great to see some contingent from our maybe Eagan and Rosemount councils also show up for this event, in case they're listening for a challenge. So Joel, thank you for your efforts in organizing and for the foundation too. All right, next we have Adam Erhart-Swanson, and I hope I pronounce that correctly. [5:12] **Adam Erhart-Swanson (Resident):** Um, my name is Adam Erhart-Swanson and I'm a resident on 134th Street Court West here in Apple Valley. These are some of the other neighbors from our street, and we're here this evening as concerned residents. We share ongoing safety concerns stemming from the grassland group home located at 5971 134th Street Court. Recently, there’s been numerous incidents in public spaces that have led to various 911 calls and police reports for acts of violence, disorderly conduct, and vandalism perpetrated by one of the clients at the location. It no longer feels safe for us and our children to play outside. The adults are weary to walk down the street for fear of witnessing or being affected by some of the acts of violence that we have seen recently. They include verbal conflict and physical assaults with some of the employees of the home. The turmoil is not just limited to our street; it's extended throughout the entire neighborhood including Johnny Cake Ridge Road, Moller Park, and then 133rd Street Court. One of the incidences this past week spilled over into that side of the neighborhood. During recent incidences, one of the clients has damaged the group home property, broken windows, and employees' vehicles. He broke the front door out of the residence. He's fought with the group home employees in front of the property in the cul-de-sac, in our street, in front of my home, and on Johnny Cake Ridge Road. As I said before, in the park, there's usually four to six employees that will be out with him whenever these incidences are happening, and they protect themselves with punch guards and walk up and down the streets with them to prevent themselves from getting whatever is going on at the time. There was an instance last week where he was wielding and insulting the employees with a large tree branch that ended up in front of my house. Right now, it just feels really unsafe for us to be outside. We have 11 young children in the neighborhood including myself—I have a nine-year-old and a six-year-old—and they've actually witnessed these incidences happening and they've expressed their concern for their safety in their own home and to go outside and play. Additionally, I've been verbally threatened by the client, as Terry has at one point as well. We've been in contact with the Apple Valley Police, the City Planner, Dakota County, the Minnesota Department of Human Services, and the owner and management of the home for support in protecting the parties involved, including the employees, the clients, and then all of us as residents. We realize it's a complex issue and the police department's been very responsive with us and supportive, but everything has continued. Just Monday, there was another incident that happened that spanned for a three-hour period where we couldn't let our kids go outside and ride their bikes from 2:15 until 5:15 because all this was occurring in front of our homes. One thing I was asked to note: the Minnesota Department of Human Services contacted us yesterday and indicated that they have opened a case with an investigation and that they're going to be working on it, so they wanted me to make sure that I mentioned that. Thank you. And so we're just here tonight as a neighborhood asking for the city's assistance in resolving these ongoing issues and making our neighborhoods safe again. I wanted to open if we have time for any of the neighbors. [8:42] **Councilmember Ruth Grendahl:** Could I ask a question? Well, go ahead, Ruth... so the investigation—are they saying it's weeks or months or what are they saying? [8:50] **Adam Erhart-Swanson:** I work full time and have two kids... [Laughter] ...Terry has a little more information. [8:56] **Mayor Clint Hooppaw:** Yeah, go ahead. Just step up to the mic so that others can hear you as well. [8:58] **Terry (Resident):** Yeah, they did a preliminary review of it and contacted me actually late last evening, 7:30 in the evening, because they see the urgency of it. They're opening up a formal investigation. They said that they'll have a contact back to me sometime early next week. I have a direct line to the manager of the department, and fortunately, she says that sometimes these can take up to 60 days for conclusion. [9:14] **Mayor Clint Hooppaw:** And you sent that in... I think you copied me on that one as well, right? And so that was a couple weeks ago that went into this. What was the initial one with the Department of Human Services? There were two people from the County? [9:27] **Terry (Resident):** That was from the County, and then this one was through the State side. [9:30] **Mayor Clint Hooppaw:** Gotcha. So we've... we'll get back in a second. As these have come in, thank you for contacting the State. Because I think as you know from talking to staff, our ability to regularly license those kind of things is pretty limited, and so I appreciate you also reaching out to the State so we can keep those going. We can do that as well, but it always has more weight, I think, when coming from those who are most impacted. [9:48] **Terry (Resident):** Right. Yeah, what we understand, as Adam said, it is a very complex... it is a lot of agencies, a lot of responsibilities that get a little muddled at the time. The police have been very helpful getting us where to go with the direction of it, but while we're here tonight is because we really need your help. We need your support to do anything you can. We've hit all the agencies, we've tried everything we can, and it's still continuing. It's a violent situation for the neighborhood and it's destroying the safety there. [10:34] **Mayor Clint Hooppaw:** I would say it's frustrating for us as well. There's, as you've experienced, so much we can do and so much we can't do. Awareness is the best thing we can often do to help raise the voices up in there. You know, often I hear—and you're not the only ones, though that doesn't make you feel any better—but you're not alone in these kind of issues with the occasional group home where this comes up. Don't hesitate to call. I mean, we hear that "I don't want to bother people" or "I don't want to make the call." If you think it's dangerous, that warrants a call. Make the call. [11:04] **Terry (Resident):** Yeah, well, it does a couple things: it tracks the activity and it makes sure people are safe. You know, we're as concerned with those in the home—both the other residents and the employees—as the neighborhood. Unsafe is unsafe. [11:13] **Mayor Clint Hooppaw:** And so again, continue to call. We'll continue to raise those up where we can as well. Ruth, did you have something else on that one? Tom, you did, and then we'll grab anybody else who wants to say anything too. So Tom, why don't you go ahead. [11:19] **Councilmember Tom Melander:** Well, years ago I was in the Human Service Consulting business and I worked with all the counties on a lot of issues. One of the problems you have here is that years ago the state cut back on our institutions. It sounded like... you know, the way they put it, all these poor people in the institutions, it's just terrible. But it's one of those things where you go from one extreme to the other. I don't want to sound like I'm copping out, but we're not the right legislative body to talk to. Our legislators have to be aware of this stuff. As a Council, I'd be more than happy to take an action having the Council look at it, but they're the ones that have to change the rules. Now, there's a gentleman out here from Dakota County Human Services, I'm sure he could tell you the same thing. These are all state laws. When they closed all the big institutions—and my view is they went too far—I used to live in Palomino Hills and we had the next block over, we had a group home with the same problem. That guy got solved somehow, but you know, you never know when it's going to come up. But this is a very dangerous situation. It's not every group home, we all know that. [12:44] **Mayor Clint Hooppaw:** Right. Now we're dealing with the people who maybe are in settings that they shouldn't be in. When Tom talks about it being a complex legislative issue, it's actually deeper than that, right? This goes back to a Supreme Court case out of Georgia, am I right in that, Tom? Initially that had something to do with this? [12:51] **Councilmember Tom Melander:** I'm not sure of the state, but yes, it has a federal implication. [12:51] **Mayor Clint Hooppaw:** So it's complex in that way as well. Staff has a light on over there as well... am I missing that one? We got it. So Ruth, did you have something else? [12:56] **Councilmember Ruth Grendahl:** My light's off. Okay, is that yours? [13:00] **Mayor Clint Hooppaw:** All right, Tom, go ahead. [13:00] **Councilmember Tom Melander:** Neighborhood issues are always tough. One of the reasons that I'm in Apple Valley is that we lived in South Minneapolis and we got robbed, and I no longer felt safe in my own house. The choice was staying there or bailing out, and that was a crummy decision. It worked out great—I love being in Apple Valley—but to be put in a position where I had to either live with it or move? I got the heck out. I'm a big believer in individual rights—you know, I've got a right to do my stuff, but I don't have a right to interfere with your stuff. It's a terrible situation and you guys shouldn't be forced to live with it. [14:02] **Councilmember Tom Melander:** The answer is... it's gonna have to be... I'll tell you what my position is, just plain and simple: group homes shouldn't be in neighborhoods. That's my position, as simple as that. Of course, the big state institutions that were so horrible—okay, I understand closing some of those down, but there has to be some middle ground. I don't know if it's... and the gentleman from the County can maybe talk about it... but there has to be a change in legislation. It has to be either the State or the County, because the County handles Human Services; that's one of their responsibilities. There’s got to be some middle ground where you have a holding pen, maybe it's in Hastings at the government center, I don't know, for some of these far-out cases. My own personal view—I hate to say it, I don't want to sound cruel—but I don't like the idea of group homes in neighborhoods. I just don't like it because things like this come up all the time. But the answer is legislative change. Our legislators got to know about it and there has to be some change handled through the Human Service Department. [15:10] **Mayor Clint Hooppaw:** So, do you mind stating your name for the record? Go ahead. [15:12] **Bob Schutte (Resident):** I'm Bob Schutte. I live on 134th Street Court West. Reference was made earlier about a safety shield. For those of you not familiar, it's about... yea by yea... maybe three, four inches thick. If you watch football practice, you see the guys wearing those and other guys run into them. So you've got staff members wearing these safety shields to protect themselves. I was wondering if the Council might consider suggesting upwards in the legislative thing a "three strikes and you're out" kind of thing. If you can't put a program in place for that individual, rather than letting it continue? A previous resident didn't really bring it out on the street but brought it in the house there, but he had like over 40 police calls. This gentleman that we're talking about is too big; he's taller than me. You’d think he was a football player. So that’s our concern. Thank you. [16:34] **Adam Erhart-Swanson:** Some of the neighbors have videos of him beating up other residents, just literally pounding on them with some of the others standing around. So not only is it difficult for us as a neighborhood, but I can't imagine what it must be like inside that group home for the other residents. I mean, there's younger people in there as well as older. [16:59] **Mayor Clint Hooppaw:** I mean, it's a foster facility for younger... who is this guy? [17:05] **Resident (Female):** He is in the foster program, so he was somewhere between 18 to 21 or under. Normally under 18, but he might be a little bit older because he might be receiving services. The state seemed to allude that he was a little bit older. [17:21] **Mayor Clint Hooppaw:** And there is [private] information... for all kinds of reasons, you're never going to know all of those pieces. But I think what we're focusing on is behaviors and impacts of those behaviors. [17:35] **Resident (Female):** For some reason, he seems to want to push people into Johnny Cake Ridge Road. It seems to be something he likes to do. He's got those shields and they're using them to shove people. I live on the corner and people go fast on that roadway. I've seen him push people into the roadway. I think one of the neighbors saw him with a young boy that was riding his bike and he was trying to get to them, and the staff was holding him back so that he couldn't push the little boy into the roadway. This is a safety hazard for not only him, but also anyone that he's coming in contact with. Pushing people into Johnny Cake in front of cars is crazy. I saw him run in front of a car one day; he was standing in the corner talking to himself, looking the other way, and all of a sudden he turned around and literally bolted in front of a car. I don't know how the car stopped. They were so stressed they pulled over to the side of the road and the guy comes out and starts getting after him. He could have hit and killed him. Nobody wants to have that happen. And that road is so dangerous. I won't even walk my dog anymore because I think it's too dangerous. [18:43] **Mayor Clint Hooppaw:** Well, thank you. [18:59] **Resident (Female):** My name is [unintelligible]. I've lived there for 36 years on this street. It is a one-block cul-de-sac street. The damage has occurred up in our church on the corner—constantly pulling plants out of the planters, pulling our rain chains down, and things like that. A lot of the physical things occur up in that area. I think they do try to get them up there away from the other people, but we have no sidewalks for our kids. If they want to visit with neighbors, they have to ride their bike down the street and they can't do it now. So, I'll quit. [19:45] **Adam Erhart-Swanson:** She was saying that the employees won't park at the home anymore; they park either in front of my house or in the church parking lots. On the weekend before last, he did damage... [crosstalk]. Weekend before last, I actually called because we have a screen room on the front of our property and there was an altercation occurring out front. I found out later he damaged one of the employees' vehicles in front of our house. Thank you. [20:31] **Mayor Clint Hooppaw:** Thank you. Does anyone else? Councilmember Bergman was up first, I believe. [20:33] **Councilmember John Bergman:** I feel for you folks. I think the system is flawed a lot. I understand the police have their hands tied, but between the County and the State, they’ve got to get their act together. The reason I guess I'm a little irate about this is I feel for you folks, but I live six houses from a group home. This group home has been around for 30 years—I've been there about 32 years—and every day I see a phenomenal gentleman walk to go bowl every day across Cedar Avenue and everything. But to hear what you folks go through, that's totally wrong. And if it takes this long to get resolved, that's another problem. I have no problem with a group home; I'm fortunate that there's good residents there, but for what you folks have to go through... some people better start getting their act together on this. [22:00] **Mayor Clint Hooppaw:** Councilmember Melander, you were up next. [22:05] **Councilmember Tom Melander:** I don't want to sound like the City Council is copping out again, but there's other people you can talk to. We have an outstanding County Commissioner, Mary Heyman Roland, who used to be our Mayor. Mr. Schutte, were you on the board when she was? [Laughter]. I'm going to correct my stuff too—I don't want to sound as mean as I sounded. I was okay when the group home started because of what they wanted to do. But when this kind of stuff... let me tell you what happened in the group home near my house. It wasn't one of the residents, but there was a big fight in the front yard one time between one of the staff members and her boyfriend. I would accept group homes in a neighborhood if they didn't hurt you and your home values. But anyway, I'm serious about this: Mary Heyman Roland is the Commissioner. Please contact her. She's a wonderful Commissioner and she'll want to get involved. [23:12] **Councilmember Ruth Grendahl:** Yes, thank you for having us. Absolutely. I'm surprised this facility has any staff left because I wouldn't tolerate that, having your vehicles and physical bodily harm. I can't believe they have anybody working there anymore. [23:25] **Mayor Clint Hooppaw:** You have very passionate people in those industries who want to help people; it makes it hard to exit. But yeah, you tolerate a lot in that job, no doubt about it. [23:36] **Terry (Resident):** We’ll get some response from the State next week. Is it possible maybe if you give us a primary point of contact on the Council to work this with us? [23:56] **Mayor Clint Hooppaw:** Yeah, I think Tim [Benetti] would probably be our primary point of contact with Planning and Code Enforcement. Certainly, I'd love to see those responses. I think some of you have got me messages, so keep doing that. If not, my contact is on the website. I've asked others as they've sent things into the State to also make sure we're aware, because it helps if we're aware of the issues as we have conversations with legislators and County Commissioners. So the more we're all aware, it's helpful. But yeah, let's please stay in touch. Stay safe. We do have a couple folks from the County—would love to hear from you if you're willing. I know you guys don't want the issues either, right? So if you don't mind coming up and introducing yourselves. I think maybe one thing to think about is the parking conversation that was made. You know, things we can and can't do. But for these businesses that run in our neighborhoods—and these are businesses serving a good need—if they're parking in front of other people's homes and doing those things, that's probably a conversation we can have with them about being a good neighbor. [25:12] **Emily Shug (Dakota County Social Services):** Thank you, Mr. Mayor and Councilmembers. Thanks to everybody who is here tonight discussing this important issue as well. I'm Emily Shug and I'm a Deputy Director in Social Services with Dakota County. We really appreciate the opportunity to be here tonight to introduce ourselves both to you and to the residents. We know this is a really difficult and challenging situation for everyone involved, and so we want to let you and the residents know that we're really committed to working together to address this situation. One of the roles that we play as a County is building bridges and connections between different parties. We strive to support people to live in a community with the right supports and, when there are issues, to see what we can do to make sure that everybody is safe and thriving, including the people that we're supporting, but also neighbors and other residents. We want to reiterate our commitment to being at the table. Certainly, it is a complex situation and there's a complex system of oversight. As the residents said, they've talked to folks at DHS who is the licensing body, but we have different connections we can access at the County. We also wanted to share that we have a really strong partnership with Apple Valley, in particular the police department. One of the program areas that I have oversight of is our crisis services continuum. As you're aware, we have a dedicated social worker from Social Services who partners with a dedicated officer. We know coming into this meeting there was interest in a community meeting, and we would be really happy to facilitate pulling that meeting together and getting all the right stakeholders together to address the current issues that neighbors have talked about tonight, but also really to build greater understanding and awareness for any future issues. I think we've found a lot of success in bringing people together. [27:52] **Mayor Clint Hooppaw:** If you want to put that together, we have the room and capacity to facilitate and host that type of event. We absolutely can work toward getting that done. It doesn’t solve the problems immediately, but gives us a chance for... you know, we've let this run over our typical 10 minutes for a lot of good reasons this evening. This isn't the best forum to do that, but where we can talk more informatively and candidly, it’d probably be a good thing to do. [28:16] **Emily Shug:** Great. So thank you for the opportunity to be here tonight to be able to make these introductions and be able to plan that next step. We really appreciate our partnership with Apple Valley around all of this really important and complex work. [28:34] **Mayor Clint Hooppaw:** Yeah. Councilmember Bergman was up first, I think, and then Councilmember Melander. [28:37] **Councilmember John Bergman:** I'm sitting here going, I'm hearing a lot of fluff, a lot of puff, but I don't know how long this situation has been going on. From the County's perspective, I understand you have to do what you have to do to say what you have to say, but I'm not getting the answers that I want to hear. I understand and I have great respect for the police division and what they have to do, but I don't know how long this is going to continue. We're going to keep hearing about "we want to work with you." I totally understand that, but what my real concern is, is public safety. If that person—an individual that has body armor of some sort and is way big—is coming out to attack me in the street? Hey, you're going to tell me I can't attack the person, but I can't believe this individual has not been at least temporarily removed from the premise so that the individuals can get back to some degree of safety. [29:56] **Mayor Clint Hooppaw:** Where do you put them, John? [29:58] **Councilmember John Bergman:** Well, there's other group homes, there's other places. But when is somebody arrested for what they're doing? That's what I don't get. Somebody should have been already working on it. [30:14] **Councilmember Tom Melander:** This requires... and I want you to know, I'm sure you know our Commissioner, she's wonderful, she's got a heart of gold. She'd have a lot of concern for her neighbors and for the people in the group homes. But what this is going to require is a change in state legislation. I don't think it has to go as far as Federal, but there has to be some things done. There has to be some alternatives for these kind of people. I said I sound too mean, saying "close them all down"—no, if they work the way they're supposed to work, fine. But there has to be an alternative. It’s going to require changes in state legislation, which requires city councils and county boards getting involved. Because we can talk about this... they'll take this guy out, where are they going to put him? In another group home or another city? It’s just gonna happen again. He has to be in a firmly committed place, but it has to be a change in state legislation. [31:41] **Councilmember Tom Melander:** I've kept pretty upset myself. You know, we've been brought to a point that we do self-censorship in this society and it drives me crazy. Not everybody deserves a hug. Some of these people deserve to be in a neighborhood with kids running around, but not if people are afraid of their own damn neighborhood. They don't have the right to do this to people. [32:29] **Gil Acevedo (Dakota County Social Services):** Mr. Mayor, Councilmembers, and most importantly the community. My name is Gil Acevedo. I am a Deputy Director in Social Services. I oversee Disability Services and Aging Services. Like my colleague Emily mentioned, this is a very serious issue and we take this very seriously. We also want to be a part of the discussion on how we can solve this. It's a very complex situation. I understand Councilmember Bergman's concern that we're providing fluff; that's not our intent. Our intent here is to state what the facts are. The fact here is that with our group homes, there's a complex licensing process and it depends on who has jurisdiction. That's why you have the State involved. It depends on whether it's the Department of Health or the Department of Human Services. The County may not have jurisdiction over certain aspects of this, but we do get involved and provide that connection with the community. We are also willing to be involved in a community conversation to facilitate that. First and foremost, we don't condone or support the idea of people feeling terrorized in their own communities. A question that came up earlier was about whether this is a federal issue or a state issue. Part of the complexity is that there is a Supreme Court judgment on this particular issue related to the Olmstead Act. The State of Minnesota follows the Olmstead Act policy, which supports community inclusion for everyone and residents' rights. Those rights go for the community neighbors as well as for the individual themselves. So we have to look deeper to see how we can resolve some of these situations. [35:31] **Mayor Clint Hooppaw:** I hear all that. Here's my ask: I understand process and complexity, but how do we get the resolution sooner? If I pull up on an accident scene and somebody's bleeding, I first stop the bleeding before I figure out what caused the accident. I think what we're talking about is what's causing the problem before we're stopping the bleeding. In the meantime, we’ve got a dangerous situation that's continuing to occur. And the thing we've not talked about: we’ve talked about what a great job the PD does. But I might have four officers on covering the whole city; if they are all there, we don't have protection for the rest of the city or we're paying a lot of overtime. The impact is more than just on the neighborhood; we're funding these things. Deeper subject than for tonight, but these are for-profit entities running these homes. I know people have gotten into this business because it's more lucrative than putting that home on the market as a single-family rental. The math is better. How do they become part of that solution? That's a topic for another day. I want the next conversation to be: how do we solve the problem sooner so they don't linger on for months and months? 60 days is one thing for the investigation—I understand that needs to happen for due process—but in the meantime, we need to stop the problem. I’ve not talked to an unreasonable neighbor yet, and they're not saying "I don't want these people in my neighborhood." They're saying "Somebody come fix the problem and don't make me wait two, six, or nine months." We’ve got to figure that one out. [37:49] **Councilmember Ruth Grendahl:** All I heard was "complex," "look deeper," "conversation," and "investigation." If somebody gets pushed on Johnny Cake and gets killed, somebody's gonna be held accountable here. We can't just sit around with the process and wait for something bad to happen. [38:15] **Councilmember Tom Melander:** I'm going to say one more time, it's a matter of changing some State legislation. I plan on talking to Commissioner Mary Heyman Roland about this. What can the Council do? We can't pass an ordinance that says "this guy has to be stopped." Right now under the law, if this guy does something like push somebody in the road, because of his mental state, he's not going to go to jail anyway. We have to change the state law. Another group that should get involved is the Association of Minnesota Counties. This is a very serious issue and it’s got to be addressed at a much higher level. [39:22] **Mayor Clint Hooppaw:** Let's do this: as much as we'd all love to, we're not going to solve this in the next hour. But let's start with this community meeting idea. Legislation is not going to change it overnight. We need to figure out a quicker solution than waiting for legislative change to stop the immediate issue. We're willing to play our part, but truly much of this is out of our control. [40:11] **Resident (Female):** Is there some way that you can authorize the police force to be able to help us more? One day when they were pushing people into Johnny Cake, the police were there and then they had to leave because there was nothing they could do because the counselors were with them. Right after they left, they started shoving people into Johnny Cake in front of cars. I called the police again and they said that they really weren't able to do anything about it, but it's a safety issue. [40:55] **Mayor Clint Hooppaw:** Well, they have the authority to interrupt a dangerous situation, but unfortunately, if that situation is "under control," there's only so much they're going to be able to do. They can't just take somebody and drive them away. We need to keep those calls coming. Nick, if you want to jump in on this, feel free. I think if that situation is not currently dangerous, what you can do there gets pretty limited? [41:41] **Nick Francis (Police Chief):** Correct. What's unique about this is there are situations where a client can be arrested regardless of mental state. They can be placed in hospitals, which has happened here multiple times. But what's unique about this is the officers will respond and the employees will not be the ones that call—it's neighbors that call because of the disturbance. In order to arrest someone or charge someone with assault, you need a victim of that assault, and these employees are not claiming to be victims; they are not wanting to press charges because that's this person's baseline and they are trained to deal with it. So when we get to a scene and the employees are telling us "we're okay, we don't need any help, we're going to get the person back," it really limits us. The general public says police officers should be the ones dealing with it, but we're not mental health experts. We're there for public safety and response to a crime. When we don't have a victim and don't have a crime taking place, it limits us. In a couple situations, our officers have at least backed away and sat out by Johnny Cake out of sight of this person to be at a close distance if they are needed, but not directly engage with trying to control this person. Our officers have navigated this to the best of their ability. [43:56] **Mayor Clint Hooppaw:** Ruth, we'll take one more, then we have to get on with the rest of the meeting. [44:02] **Councilmember Ruth Grendahl:** They need to hire full-time security, their own security. They're getting paid to monitor these people. [44:06] **Terry (Resident):** To your point, the people that call are the people that are in danger. We need something done now. You made a comment asking why he isn’t arrested—we struggle with that because anybody else doing that would have been arrested a long time ago. Is there a restraining order or something that can be done immediately? We need more than fluff. We need our kids to be safe. [44:46] **Mayor Clint Hooppaw:** Whatever we can do, let's address the immediate thing. Let's get safety back in that neighborhood. Thank you all. [45:26] **Councilmember Tom Melander:** One more thing—the people that work in the group homes, the people that have to handle these characters, they would like to see some changes too. One of the problems is the people that own the group homes and want to maximize profits don't. This is going to require legislation that includes the group home industry. I don't know what the hell we do now, but this is serious. [45:51] **Mayor Clint Hooppaw:** All right, again, thank you. You guys are more than welcome to stick around for the rest of this show—we can talk about parking or the parks referendum—but thanks for coming out. All right, Carol, where I am on this agenda... the next item is our approval of our consent agenda. These items are considered routine and will be enacted with the same motion unless a councilmember or citizen requests to pull an item. Councilmembers, are there any items you'd like to pull from consent and discuss separately? Hearing none. Anyone in the audience? Do I have a motion to approve? [46:44] **Mayor Clint Hooppaw:** Motion from Councilmember Melander, and I had a second from Bergman. All in favor indicate by saying aye. (Group: Aye). That item carries. That moves us to our regular agenda. Item 5A on our agenda is the update on the Park and Recreation referendum. Eric Carlson has this item. [47:04] **Eric Carlson (Parks and Recreation Director):** Mr. Mayor, members of the Council, thanks for giving some time this evening to talk a little bit about the parks referendum. As of today, there's 75 days until we get to November 7th, so the days are ticking. Just want to give a brief overview of what's involved in the referendum for residents at home so that they're aware of what's going on, and hopefully they will choose to go to the polls. I'm just going to run through the projects. Under Question Number One, it would be a $2 million investment in our existing trails. For the most part, it would be overlaying existing trails, but it would be building some new trails to close some gaps. A second portion of Question One is another $2 million investment in natural resources—taking care of about 300 acres of our wooded area, creating natural prairies and pollinator-friendly areas, and removing invasive species. A major investment would be in the preservation of existing park system assets; $16.7 million would go towards replacing existing tennis courts, basketball courts, pickleball courts, playgrounds, parking lots, the skate park, irrigation, and lighting. Then, an $8 million investment in the existing Apple Valley Family Aquatic Center—updating mechanical systems, refurbishing slides, and adding shade. [49:23] **Eric Carlson:** Also included in Question One is a $10.6 million investment in the Community Center/Senior Center. Expansion of the coffee lounge, additional program space, a small fitness space, an indoor playground connecting the two buildings, and construction of pickleball courts between the Senior Center and Hayes Arena. Further, a $9.6 million investment in updating Redwood Park with an inclusive playground, interactive splash pad, new restroom and shelter building, and loop trail systems. We've been working with Dakota County to find room for an underpass of County Road 42, which would be paid for by the County, not referendum dollars. Kelly Park is also involved—an $8.6 million investment to enlarge the stage, new playground, interactive splash pad, and increased parking. We have a youth baseball/softball complex for $5.2 million proposed on the current Westview Elementary site. Finally, a $3.9 million investment in Hayes Arena to replace refrigeration equipment, the floor, and Dasher boards. [52:43] **Eric Carlson:** In total, Question One totals $66.7 million. It would be a $19.53 per month tax increase to the average home in Apple Valley. Not everyone owns the average home, so there you see some different property values and the tax impact. Question Number Two is solely about replacing the Redwood Park community pool. The pool is currently 58 years old. That cost is $6.5 million. The average taxpayer would pay an additional $1.90 per month for that. For Question Two to pass, Question One has to pass. We will be mailing out an informational brochure to all Apple Valley residents that should hit homes within the next two to three weeks. We'll be hosting a series of open houses—virtual, in-person, Saturdays, daytime, and evening. Most importantly, people need to get out and vote. September 22nd is when absentee voting starts. Direct balloting begins Friday, October 20th. Election day is Tuesday, November 7th. [56:42] **Mayor Clint Hooppaw:** Questions for Eric? Councilmember Melander. [56:47] **Councilmember Tom Melander:** I don't have a question; I just want to congratulate you on this outstanding information you're sending out to the citizens. I think it's great because sometimes with referendums, people wonder what it's going to cost. You’ve laid it all out here, and I appreciate that. Thank you for that effort. [57:22] **Mayor Clint Hooppaw:** Thanks, Tom. I just add to that thanks to our Park and Rec Advisory Committee too, because a lot of their work is what you see in front of you tonight. Eric, I see you've got some Saturday meetings in here. Those times might not work for everybody, and I believe you're open to personally taking questions? [57:38] **Eric Carlson:** Absolutely. On the brochure is my phone number and email address. I would encourage anyone to call me. I want to make sure people have the correct information so they are doing it from an informed position. [58:12] **Mayor Clint Hooppaw:** Great. Thank you, Eric. All right, thank you. We'll move on to Staff and Council Communications. I know we've got a public safety update, Tom? [58:18] **Tom Lawell:** Mr. Mayor, good evening. Yes, we have two staff updates for you tonight. Before we get to the public safety one, I just want to make a comment about Councilmember Bergman. This relates to the Metropolitan Airports Commission. They have an organization called the Noise Oversight Committee. Councilmember Bergman has been chosen—voted in—to represent what's called the "at-large cities." There's seven of them: Apple Valley, Burnsville, Inver Grove Heights, St. Louis Park, St. Paul, Sunfish Lake, and Edina. Councilmember Bergman will be representing all of those cities on matters related to airport noise. So, congratulations on that appointment. [59:05] **Mayor Clint Hooppaw:** Thank you, Tom. And John, thank you for serving. I can't think of a better person to do that. [59:09] **Councilmember Ruth Grendahl:** We have a problem about noise... you know, you see planes, we just call John! You haven't complained yet. [59:17] **Mayor Clint Hooppaw:** It shows the respect all these cities have for you. Thank you for doing it. [59:34] **Councilmember Tom Melander:** In all your years at the airport, you have a really good background of why that's important to us on both sides. It's great to have you there. Thanks for donating more of your time to Apple Valley. [59:50] **Councilmember John Bergman:** If I may make a comment, I've had great leadership through cities that have their own representation and learned a lot from them. One thing I think we bring to the table as an at-large group is we try to work the best we can with what is presented to us, but at the same time respect each city so it looks like it's a uniform system. Thanks, Councilmember Grendahl, for bringing it up. [1:00:23] **Mayor Clint Hooppaw:** All right, we've got an update from our Police Chief as well, I believe. Nick, come on up. [1:00:36] **Nick Francis (Police Chief):** Good evening, Mr. Mayor, members of the Council. It's been a dangerously hot week, and especially last night with heat warnings, the police and fire departments postponed our "Public Safety in the Park" event. When we decided to postpone it, we identified a backup date of Wednesday, September 13th, same time, same place: 6:00 to 8:00 o'clock at Johnny Cake Park. We've sent out a notice on social media and to our email network. With any luck, we'll have a little bit cooler weather and increase our participation for our first annual Public Safety in the Park. [1:01:31] **Mayor Clint Hooppaw:** Great, thank you, Nick. I think that's it for announcements. Councilmembers, anything? Almost forgot to ask. All right, our next informal city council meeting is Thursday, September 14th at 5:30 p.m. Our next regular city council meeting is Thursday, the 14th at 7:00. Just a reminder that city offices are closed on Monday, September 4th in observance of the Labor Day holiday. With that, do I have a motion to approve the calendar of upcoming events? [1:02:02] **Mayor Clint Hooppaw:** Motion from Councilmember Grendahl, second from Councilmember Melander. All in favor indicate by saying aye. (Group: Aye). [1:02:09] **Mayor Clint Hooppaw:** End of the list. Do we have a motion to adjourn? [1:02:11] **Mayor Clint Hooppaw:** Motion from Councilmember Grendahl, second from Councilmember Melander. All in favor? (Group: Aye). All right, thanks everyone, have a wonderful weekend. [Music]