This transcript has been updated with speaker names based on the context of the Hermantown City Council meeting and the provided official list. [0:00] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Good evening. We'll call the meeting to order. And could we all stand for the pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. [0:27] **City Clerk Alissa McClure:** Roll call, please. Councelor Gisler? **Councilor John Geissler:** Here. **Alissa McClure:** Councelor Jelly? **Councilor Andy Hjelle:** Here. **Alissa McClure:** Councelor Blah? **Councilor Brian LeBlanc:** Here. **Alissa McClure:** Councelor Peterson? **Councilor Joe Peterson:** Here. **Alissa McClure:** Mayor Buché? **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Here. [0:27] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Announcements. Are there any counselors that have announcements this evening? [0:56] **Councilor Andy Hjelle:** Mr. Mayor, I'd like to just start. Um I'm excited to know that uh we now know the entity behind the proposed data center. Uh with that came a lot of news and and stories and and uh information. Uh there's been a lot of uh information and misinformation about NDAs and I just want to go on the record. Some people know this. I've told anybody that um I've talked to, but um I as an elected official in the city of Hermantown did not sign an NDA on this project or any other projects. [1:19] **Councilor Brian LeBlanc:** Good job, Andy. **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Okay. Uh th this is my turn to ask for decorum and courtesy in tonight's meeting. Clapping, cheers, take away from the time that others will have to speak. So please let's respect our neighbors and respect others in the room even if we disagree and try and just get to the point. Uh when we get to public comment, each person will have three minutes. We'll go through a list. Um, I would like to also add that no one on the council signed any NDAs in relation to this and I don't believe I've signed one for any reason in the past. Mr. Moulder, uh, we have Could you give a summary of the fourth quarter financials that Mr. Orm covered in pre-aggenda or would you like him to do that? [2:10] **City Administrator John Mulder:** Uh, he's not here so I'll do it. Um, so we had three presentations during the pre-agenda. The first one was uh Kevin Oram, our director of finance and administration uh presented the fourth quarter financials. Um we do that each quarter. Do we look at the quarter of how we are spending our budget uh budget to actual for each of the various departments in the general fund and then various other um funds as well. And we also look at um um where our money is invested and um currently who's holding that. So he presented that uh standard report. Uh Zack Graves, our fire chief, followed up with a annual report of the fire department um and the operations of that department. And then we had a presentation from Minnesota Power from Frank Frederickson, uh, vice president there, talking about how, um, the electronic service agreement, electric service agreement, um, with Google and the state law that prevents um, those co costs to be passed on to the residents. [3:20] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Thank you. And we will now move to public comment. Time limit is three minutes per person. This is a time for individ to individuals to address the council about items not on the agenda. Speakers who wish to comment at this time or on later agendas should be signed up prior to the start of the meeting. We are flexible on that. A signup sheet is available and still available in the lobby. As always, written comments may be submitted to the city clerk before the end of the meeting. So, if anyone goes past their three minutes, they can feel free to further their testimony in writing and hand it to us and we'll accept it. Uh, first person on our public comment list is Carol Walsh. Could you step forward and state your name and address for the recorded record? [4:07] **Carol Walsh:** My name is Carol Walsh. I live at 4112 Meadow Parkway. Like many of us here, I belong to a multi-generational family who originally helped to settle the Hermantown area century ago. And our founding fathers would roll over in their graves at what is happening to the land they invested their time, money, and hard work to establish. In fact, in 1976, when Hermantown became a city, we were known as the city of quality living. I question if that is still going to be true. The data data center deal has been going on for quite some time. However, the public was not made aware of this agreement. Was it because you knew we would not agree to it? Are you not in your position because we, the residents of Hermantown, voted for you? It makes me wonder why or who has benefited from this agreement. And I want to remind you that it is not too late to make things right. Thank you. [5:29] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Thank you. Next, Tim Resburg. Name and address, please. [5:40] **Tim Resburg:** My name is Tim Resburg, 3646 Midway Road. And I see there's a lot of guys in green here that are from the trades and that. And I'd like you to know that I spent 40 years in the trades as electrician working for houses and nuclear plants and so forth. The main reason that a lot of people are against this is when you see the signs, it says no reszoning because they're putting it in a residential and rural area. And just like the gal said before, my families were back here from the 1800s. And we've been given a lot of information about the zoning here. We had a council member tell us one time at one of the meetings that it's a BLM. It's not. It's an industrial. And they told us it would be like the size of the Adolf gas station and store. if any of you know where that is and that's not right with the trades and that if they go put it where it's supposed to be an industrial zone they're still going to build it that's the main thing so you will all still be working because when I worked we traveled around too to different little different jobs and big jobs and small ones and that's the biggest reason is that they're getting rid of people's homes and the values of people's homes around the area are going to go way down and we've been paying taxes and improving property and they don't care. They're worried about the billionaire. put it in an area where it belongs in an industrial zone, not in a residential and rural because Hermantown used to claim come move up here to live in the rural residential area and that's why they wanted people to move here. Now they're telling us too bad if you did. We don't care what happens to you. And these guys in the trades, you know, they move it someplace with industrial because it will still be working. And like I said, time before that when he has gave them information that was wrong about the light business, the size of the Adolf wasn't correct by any means. [8:02] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** 30 seconds, Tim. [8:14] **Tim Resburg:** And if we could just get it to be reszoned in an industrial area, it would make a big difference. Then the jobs would still be around. Thanks. [8:30] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Thank you. Next is, I believe, Kyle Bakovich. Could you state your name and address? [8:40] **Kyle Bakovich:** Kyle Bukovich, 2284 East Fox, Chaffy Road, Foxboro, Wisconsin. Good evening, mayor and counselors. My name is Kyle Bukovich. I'm president of the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers Local Union 242. We represent electricians who live, work, and play right here in Hermantown and the Northland. People who have helped built this community from the ground up. This isn't just about putting another bu putting up another building. It's about opportunity. Real local opportunity. First and foremost, it means jobs. Good paying local union jobs from site prep to electrical installation to long-term maintenance and upgrades. This data center will employ hundreds of skilled building trades people from Hermantown and the surrounding communities. These just aren't short-term positions. Data centers are complex, high-tech facilities that require ongoing work to stay secure, efficient, and reliable. That means sustained deployment for for your constituents, our members, and future apprentichip opportunities for the next generation of electricians. Our apprentichip program is how young men and women in this region learn a trade, earn while they learn, and build a real future without taking on student debt. This project gives our apprentices hands-on experience with the kind of high-tech, cuttingedge technology that's becoming more important, and it keeps those jobs right here, not down in the Twin Cities, not out of state, but in Hermantown for local workers. The data center isn't just about servers and security. It's about raising the standard of living for working families. It means steady jobs that provide family sustaining wages and benefits. It means more money spent at local restaurants, hardware stores, and small businesses. It means a stronger middle class, the backbone of America right here in Hermantown. We understand that with any large project, there are concerns about noise, energy use, or environmental impact. But let me be clear, this project will be built with the highest standards. Our regional building trade councils have a long-standing record of delivering safe, efficient, and environmentally responsible projects. Hermantown is growing, but growth without a plan is just sprawl. This project represents smart growth, high-tech, low impact infrastructure that positions our region to compete in the 21st century economy. It keeps talent here. It brings new opportunities and it shows that Hermantown is ready to embrace innovation while supporting the workers and families who built this town. At the end of the day, this is a chance to bring real lasting opportunity to local workers and apprentices. The kind of opportunity that can change lives, support families, and help Urban Town keep moving forward. [11:12] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** 30 seconds. [11:15] **Kyle Bakovich:** Let's give your constituents a chance to do what they do best. Build something strong together. Thank you. [11:29] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Thank you. Next is, I believe, Emma Rickman. And on the sheet here, it notes that Carara Simmons is seeding her time to Emma. Cara, are you here? Could you just stand up and nod that it's okay for to seed your time? Thank you. Go ahead. [11:45] **Emma Rickman:** Uh, Emma Rickman, 5215 Chris Drive. Um, It's been communicated to me that we don't have the specifics of this project in front of us and that because of that everything we are speaking to is all in here—that it's fear-based and I disagree with that. Uh so because we don't have the specifics publicly available to us, I thought I would speak to the known financial risks associated with hypers scale data centers regardless of the specifics or who the parent company is. Uh, according to a publication from the University of Michigan, what happens when data centers come to town and materials presented by a former VP at Microsoft, the short lifespan of AI data centers brings great risk to small cities like Hermantown and surrounding communities. It is well documented that AI data centers have a lifespan of 15 to 25 years. The lifespan of the computer chips are six years at best. 15 to 25 years. Our neighborhood is being destroyed. Our community continues to be deceived and trust in our local government is eviscerated just for 15 to 20 years of mystery promises. AI data center buildings are customuilt for the unique needs of the data center. This limits the options for future reuse by making it costlier to retrofit and difficult to find a new buyer. What is your plan for the site and building 20 years from now when Google leaves? What are the requirements you are making of Google to dismantle and remove interior and exterior components? Are you requiring an escrow? What would prevent Google from simply just walking away? Who holds them accountable? Google is worth $3.6 trillion. Herman Town's legal council, whose annual budget was 60,000 in 2022, and the League of American Cities Insurance is no match to negotiate with the deep pockets and legal resources of the third most valuable company in the world. What will Hermantown do with a 1.8 8 million square foot uh purpose-built data center once it reaches obsolescence and it will. This pattern of technology cycling has become faster and faster in the past decade. If you need an example, look at your personal desktop, laptop, cell phone. Apple has released over 35 new iPhone models since 2016. We don't repurpose these. We don't even service the old technology. We move on to the new tech toy. Built-in obsolescence. And this hypers scale data center is no different. The short lifespan of an AI data center means that the data will become—the data center will become entirely exempt from owning any sales tax on its computer equipment and software as the state sales tax exemption is now 35 years. In addition to favorable sales tax treatments, data centers also enjoy favorable depreciation rates which reduce their property tax basis. An AI data center can take advantage of bonus and accelerated depreciation, meaning it can be fully depreciated in 10 to 20 years. That means that large tax revenue, that means the large tax revenue Google's been dazzling you with will decline significantly year-over-year, leaving nothing but the land value for the tax basis. In 10 to 15 years, the value could dip lower than the tax revenue currently received by the existing residential properties. And we still haven't been told if there's a tax abatement clause for Google. Tax abatement deals would only further reduce tax revenue for Hermantown. Rather than broaden the city's base, it will central—rather than broaden this Hermantown's tax base, it will centralize it by having a significant portion of the city's tax revenue come from the one source that brings significant financial risk to Hermantown and St. Louis County. When the tax revenue stream dries up and Google leaves, you are counting your chickens before they're hatched. You are counting on a year one amount of revenue stream for an eternity when just 15 years of diminishing value is the reality. What will take it? What will take its place when it stops? How long will these buildings sit vacant, generate no revenue before a new buyer can be enticed enough or given enough deals to bite? Until a new buyer is found, the residents will be forced to make up the revenue gap that the city had become accustomed to. The impact and risk is all born on the residents and community while Google will pocket the profit from thousands of miles away. Regardless of whatever neighborly reputation Google is propagandizing with our community, the fact is that hyperscale data centers have a short life, one of obsolescence, and we will be left holding the bag. [16:15] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Thank you. Next is Don Le Point. [16:40] **Don Le Point:** And there's someone on page three of the signup sheet who's seating their time to me. I don't know if you have page three there yet. [16:54] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Lindsay? **Deputy Clerk Lindsay Townsend:** Yes. **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Lindsay, are you here? You're okay. Okay. Go ahead. [17:05] **Don Le Point:** I'm Don Le Point, 4731 Portland Road in Hermantown. Good evening, Mayor, counselors, and staff. Thank you for your service to our community. These are challenging times for residents of Hermantown and surrounding communities and for you as well. I've been attending most meetings since October, but this is my first time at the podium. I especially take those I especially appreciate those who take time for conversations with constituents after meetings and at other times. I've lived in Hermantown for more than 20 years. I have long admired that rural southeast area of Hermantown, and I thought it might be nice to move to at some point. I admire the rolling terrain, green space, forest, streams, and dark night skies. I've captured photos of the Aurora Borealis above the peaceful, snowy landscape in that area. But the changes in zoning and threat of data centers make that area too risky of a move for me. Now, tonight, I'd like to talk about dating and relationships. Believe it or not, this seems like a pertinent analogy for what residents have been observing for quite some time. I think many of us have had that friend or relative who's new in a who's in a new relationship that raises red flags for those who know her well. They were introduced by a mutual acquaintance or friend of a friend who has a vested interest. In the dating phase, they're figuring out what they have in common and how compatible they might be, but are only showing their best sides to one another. He's wellknown, wealthy, and influential. She's from a small town and feels lucky that someone of his status is taking interest in her. And she thinks a whole new world of opportunities could open up for her. The possibilities seem endless. But for some reason, she's hiding the budding relationship with this mystery person from friends, relatives, and neighbors. She shares little about him, gives excuses for the secrecy, and makes light of concerns that are expressed by those who care. They would not understand because she knows things that they don't. You notice she's even changed her appearance to prove her worthiness and their compatibility. She may have lowered her standards. She has lost some friendships. From the outside, the relationship appears rushed. At times, you wonder if her mind is already made up. Even when she becomes aware of potential risks, she dismisses them because she's convinced this one will be different. She tells herself that everything will be just fine. Eventually, she changes her relationship status online and reveals her mystery partner. But knowing who he is doesn't change much. What's more concerning is how she's been behaving and changing and how it's affecting those close to her. Friends, relatives, and neighbors know this is not the future she had dreamed of, and it's not the future they had hoped and planned for either. Mayor and counselor counselors, let's stop Project Loon while we're in the dating phase. The residents of Hermantown and nearby communities have been consistently expressing their concerns about this relationship with a hyperscale data center. We are watching similar scenarios play out across across the country and other towns. All too often, it's a poor outcome for the residents, the environment, and resources. Please listen to your constituents and our neighbors who don't have a vote. We're just not that into hypers scale data centers. As part of your due diligence, I encourage you to review information and sources we share with an open, curious mind and give them fair consideration in your decision-making. We'd also like to hear your honest thoughts and real facts, not just carefully crafted messaging. No offense, Joe. I know it's part of your job. To be clear, I'm not speaking ill of Google or Minnesota Power, who's now under BlackRock's umbrella. I realize they are looking out for their best interests, too. And we need to look out for ours and that of future generations. Don't be a pickme with hypers scale data centers. Please don't sell out your residents' health, quality of life, and the natural beauty and resources in our area for the hope of temporary construction, jobs, and temporary economic boost. The gravity of this decision weighs heavily on our community because the risks are too great. Thank you. [21:40] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Thank you. Um, next is Jackie Dolan. [21:55] **Jackie Dolan:** Yes, sir. My name is Jackie Dolan. I'm at 5842 Old Highway 2. First of all, as always, thank you for your service to our community. I know it's not an enviable job at the moment. You probably all deserve a big raise. Um, in honor of data centers, I wanted to do a non- Google data gathering survey. This will not require a data center. I looked at the city ordinances, so I think this is okay. I promise it won't be disruptive. Just really quickly, couple questions. Everyone in this room, including my union brothers and sisters, on your honor, Hermantown residents, raise your hand. Including you guys, get to giving. Those within a two-mile radius of the site, raise your hand. Who wants to live next to this site during the 8 to 10 years of construction? Raise your hand. There's always a rebel in the group. Those who want to live next to a data center when it's done, raise your hand. My final thoughts, midterm elections are coming up. Would you be willing to put this on the ballot to let the Hermantown residents vote and have a true voice? Thank you. [23:01] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Thank you. Next on the list is Paul Fish, but he didn't put a topic or an agenda item on here. Uh if Paul, if you wish to speak on the data center, you don't. Okay. um so you don't want to speak at all. Okay. Thank you. Next is Emma Rickman—and Emma, wait—Emma's on for resolution 38. No, there's they're both on the same list here, but next on the list that says data center is Jeffrey Donahue. [23:43] **Jeffrey Donahue:** Good evening, Jeffrey Donahghue, 5540 Pinehill Road. I live in Midway Township. Good evening, mayor, counselors, staff. There's hundreds of before for and after arguments for the data center. It's not important to me to get into the minutia, even the green elephant in the room, and thank you contractors, hardworking contractors for showing up. But it's not about build or not build the data center. That's not what this is about. That's not what these hearings, these council meetings are about. It's about that data center on that site. That data center on that site, hypers scale data center on that site doesn't have anything to do with all these other arguments. That data center on that site potentially the third largest business in Minnesota, one of the largest data centers in the world in a residential community. Residential community. You're putting the third largest noisy, pollutant, ugly, tall, horrible business right next to people's homes. You can't do it. It's illegal. An AUAR, that's not the truth, Mr. Ronchetti. An AUAR is to study a site. An EIS is to study a project. It's right on the state's website. They're different. The AUAR is like kindergarten. It's like crayons. We need computers. We need an EIS. You want a site, you want to build on this site, do the right thing. It's an EIS. I can't imagine why you guys aren't listening to your community that says no, no data center on this site. That's all it's about. This site. We don't we're not talking about being against data centers. We're talking about no data center in a residential community. It's simple. [26:20] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** 30 seconds, Jeffrey. [26:22] **Jeffrey Donahue:** Very simple. Don't put a data center next to people's homes. Not rocket science. Google wants to throw a couple of nickels on the ground, but remove billions of dollars of property value and quality of life. Google nickels $5 million billions of dollars worth of property loss and quality of life. Thank you. [26:47] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Thank you. Next is Noel Donahue. [26:56] **Noel Donahue:** Uh good evening, Noel Donahghue, 5540 Pineh Hill Road. um also in Midway Township still. Um I just don't understand why you're not doing the EIS first. I mean, I get you're you're willing to look at the AUAR and do a new one, but why not do the EIS? I mean, if you are willing to spend the time to do the AUAR and yet you have a community that's asking you for the EIS, you have a lawsuit pending because community members want you to do a project specific one. You know—who we know—all know it's Google now. You have more details. There's more details coming out. Why not give the full scope and then if it comes back and it says how wonderful this is going to be and the streams aren't going to be affected and there's not going to be noise pollution, there's not going to be light pollution and I found three guys who can buy my property because you all raised your hand that you want to live next to the data center. Come see me because I've got a house that is ready for you guys. So, you've got all this opportunity to give us information. If it comes back and it tells all these things are great and it's going to do nothing and it's going to give jobs and it's going to boost everything in the community, what do I have to stand up here and tell you I don't like? But you're not you're not doing that. You're coming back with something else. Instead of giving us the full breath of what we're—what you could you could avoid my comments and in the next six months when I come here you would be able to say, "Huh, there's nothing for her to say to us. She's already said, 'Do this.' We did it. What more do you have to tell us in the community?" I mean, I don't vote for you because I don't live in your in your town, right? I just get the negatives of what is going to happen. You've talked about the positives. The jobs doesn't affect me. Want other people to work? That's great. that you know, you've talked about how the extra money could help you with things like new fire trucks, right? Well, again, you don't service when my house caught on fire in '24, it's not who we called, right? So, a new fire truck for Hermantown doesn't necessarily benefit me. Putting in septic sewer lines doesn't help me. Doesn't help most of the houses that are out there already because like me they're all on—thank you—they're all on septic and well and we've already put our investments in our homes and it is a residential area. You voted to change that to light industrial. I would argue to say a hyperscale data center of that size doesn't match for light industrial. Please reconsider what you're doing. Thank you. [29:41] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Thank you. Next we have Jack Carlson. [30:01] **Jack Carlson:** Good evening, Mayor and Council. Again, I'm Jack Carlson. I'm the president of the Duluth Building and Construction Trades Council. I represent over 3,000 Union Trades members that live and work here locally in the Arrowhead region. I've been in the trades for many years and I've seen the ebbs and flows of construction. There are times when it's slow and work is not available and then there are times when work is steady and readily available. And with the current climate, we need to have steady work. Many of these members are forced to travel for work, sometimes out of state, spending many nights away from their family members and loved ones. This is time missed watching their children grow up, missing sports games, choir concerts that aren't heard, and the ask from their child to help them with homework. Projects like this data center do not always come along that often. The ability for our members of the Duluth building trades to stay home and eat dinner with their families and attend all the events that they would have potentially missed is an amazing opportunity. Work like this provides families with a steady means of income. It will put money in their pockets and food on their tables. It will provide them a good retirement. It gives them hope of living with dignity. Our young and upcoming workforce will have the hopes of the same opportunities. Being able to not to leave town for a career, but to embrace one right here in our backyards. Not every student is meant to go to a two or four-year college. So, construction needs to happen so these young individuals have the opportunities that they deserve. These careers in the trades are the most efficient and highly skilled workforce that we have out there. Our men and women in the trades know how to build these projects with quality and pride, usually on time and under budget, mind you. Not only will this provide for members of the trades, but it will provide vital economic growth. Each person working locally and spending their money in this region could be $7 that could be spent time and time again. Our local grocery stores, our mom and pop gas stations, the local cafe. All these places need people that live here to frequent them. [32:38] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** 30 seconds. [32:41] **Jack Carlson:** So that they can stay in business and provide the services that we all need. If a community turns down all forward progress, the community will slowly fade away and no longer be a place that everybody wants to live in. This happened more than once and it will continue to happen when we turn growth away. We love to work and play where we all live just like everyone else. All I ask is that the misinformation be put to rest and that people want to work on these projects. Thank you very much. [33:20] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Thank you. Somebody's phone's ringing. No, that's my—that's okay. Next is Sarah Lopeld. [33:38] **Sarah Lopeld:** My name is Sarah Lopeld and I live at 5502 Hermantown Road. Uh, and I want to make a few things clear. Uh, the citizens of Hermantown are not against development. Uh, we are not against jobs and most of us are part of unions and support them vehemently. What we are against is our city council and staff keeping us in the dark regarding what is happening in our city. Uh we are against our elected officials and hired staff uh signing NDAs that obscure details that we should know about. Uh we are against our city council abandoning the Adolf neighborhood small area plan that explicitly showed that residents wanted to protect the rural feel of their neighborhood. We are against a multi-billion dollar company manipulating our city's zoning languages, ordinances, rural neighborhoods, and the 2045 comprehensive plan. We are against a company with a 7% share in that multi-billion dollar company owning our utilities. Uh we are against our city officials willfully ignoring the citizens' concern and when asked direct questions about plans being dismissed or purposefully rebuffed with vague responses like "nothing that we can discuss at this time" and "there are no applications that have been submitted." We are against our city council only attempting to course correct after petitions and lawsuits. We are against learning more about a project from the newspaper than from our city officials. We are against our city staff talking about citizen concerns as if we are uneducated, uninformed conspiracy theorists that are consumed by the fear that's all in our heads. What we are asking for of our elected officials is not difficult. We simply want transparency and to be informed part of the conversation. To support initial transparency back in late 2024 when Minnesota Power approached Hermantown with this project, your answer should have been "not without full public involvement." And when they said no, your next statement should have been "come back when you want to involve the people who elected us." So again, I will ask you if the residents of Hermantown show up at a city council meeting to oppose the development of a massive data center by Google, will you listen? [36:30] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Thank you. Next is Richard Hilton. [36:36] **Richard Hilton:** All right. My name is Richard Hilton. I live at 5502 Hermantown Road. Um, I want to start off talking about deception, which is how you kind of started this meeting as well. You said, uh, none of the city councilors here have signed an NDA, but there are three individuals sitting up here who did. Um, you haven't learned your lesson yet, apparently. Um, another thing I want to talk about, um, there's a lot of new faces in here, a lot of new people. Um, I'd like to get them up to speed a little bit. So, part of the reason, most of the reason a lot of us are here is that this whole thing started with deception. Uh, you didn't tell us that you were planning a project. You were planning this project for over a year, over a year and a half. No citizens were allowed to be involved. You changed BLM plans without contacting the committee. You changed zoning rules to allow this heavy industrial facility to fit under uh light industrial zoning. All without letting citizens know or telling any citizen why you were changing these rules or that there was a data center there. Also, when you submitted your uh AUAR, you did not submit that there was—it was for a data center, let alone a hypers scale data center, which is why the lawsuit happened. So, there's a lot of deception going on here. So, if you if you want to continue to allow your local governments to deceive you and lie to you, then go ahead, keep keep supporting this. But I don't support that. I support the United States of America and we the people over trillion dollar corporations. Thank you. [38:40] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Thank you. Uh the next two people have signed up—AUAR data center. Um if you wish to come up for the data center, please do. Otherwise, there's a motion later and a resolution for AUAR. If you come up for the data center and you wish to speak to the AUAR later, there's another signup sheet out in the hall. We can get that started for that. Next is uh Dave Lisagard. [39:06] **Dave Lisagard:** Uh Dave Lisagard, 720 Arrowhead Street, Aurora, Minnesota. And uh I'd like to thank uh the mayor and the council for giving me this opportunity. Um, I am here as the executive director of Jobs for Minnesotans. Jobs for Minnesotans is a nonpartisan coalition representing business, labor, and communities across the state of Minnesota. The jobs mission is to advocate for responsible job creation and growth to improve the economic opportunity across the state of Minnesota. And with the new Google data center, this is one of the greatest economic opportunities our state and this region has seen in a very long time. But who am I? Uh before joining jobs, I was a counselor and a mayor like you. And I truly admire what you guys have to go through. It's not easy. It's it's difficult. But anything that is worth fighting for is difficult. It is a process. I was a state representative for district uh 6B and 7B. I fought for this very community. I butted up alongside from the Iron Range all the way to Hermantown. I carried legislation for this community. I believe in supporting these opportunities for our uh the very residents that are sitting here today that are opposed to it. And I'm okay with people being opposed to something, but we have to have the facts. Fear is a very powerful emotion, but we can't be driven by fear. We need to be driven by facts and opportunity. And I want to thank the council and I want to thank Google for coming together and resetting to start this process over that should build trust and transparency with people. Why does this project matter? Well, I was the vice chair of taxes and then the chair of property taxes. I know how this system works. I was in the back room seeing how this sausage is made and seeing how things get done. If we do not have an economic base, the state of Minnesota cannot continue to deliver finances to pay and offset all these costs. We need economic growth and that is what this opportunity is. Think about this. People are saying a trillion dollar company. This is Google. This is the A team. This isn't the junior varsity. We want a a marquee company to come to this state, to come to this region and to improve our lives. This is a great thing. I appreciate you guys giving me the opportunity. I look forward to this dialogue through the period uh in the in the coming months. We need to be engaged on both sides. Be civil, be polite, be courteous, and get to the other side. Thank you very much. [41:43] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Thank you. Next, I have Rebecca Grandorf. Just start with your name and address please. [42:15] **Rebecca Grandorf:** Rebecca Gradorf, 4198 Solie Road, Hermantown Minnesota. Um, I think my—I'm wrapped—the two ideas are wrapped up in my mind, so I'm just going to discuss them now. So, um, you guys talked about the AUAR being what you chose because it studies the worst case scenario. um you guys are redoing your AUAR because it was inadequate the first time. It's like—let's not try to paint a picture of anything else. It's not that new data came out, that new things are coming forward about the data center. That might be true, but the reason that you guys are redoing is because it was inadequate to begin with. Um I fear that um you didn't—and I also fear that you didn't just study the worst case in that um in that initial AUAR. Um you also are saying constantly that you are choosing the AUAR because um the design will change over time. The mechanical design of the facility might change over time and that's expected and that the AUAR um over time can be easily shifted and it doesn't have to go back to public comment. That is good for the developer and very bad for us as Hermantown residents because we don't get to look at the potential changes um and give our feedback. Um and that really um worries me. Um so I'll just talk a little bit about my worst case with this data center. um with the original AUAR um you guys um showed a water pipeline coming right through my neighborhood. Um I don't live in the um southwest corner of um of Hermantown. I live on the south central edge of Hermantown. And the development plan for this involves bringing water from right down Midway Road, which is a block away from where I live and where I own a farm. Um I'm worried about the development that that's going to cause in my neighborhood. [44:48] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** 30 seconds, Rebecca. [44:50] **Rebecca Grandorf:** Um I'm I'm worried about the development that's going to cause in my neighborhood and I'm also worried about um what if that's not the worst case and there's going to be other consequences that'll also affect my farm. Um if the development changes and it's not going to be—the water supply isn't going to be fully met through the water pipeline and they start drilling wells, um how will that affect my farm and will there be a public comment period for me to um ask those questions? Um what about um noise pollution and um— [45:12] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** That's three minutes. Thank you. Next is Nate Ricard. [45:24] **Nate Ricard:** Yeah. My name's Nate Ricard. I live at 4878 Trails End Drive, Hermantown, Minnesota. I work in a union trades. Uh I'm here tonight to voice my support for the data center project for our community. Um projects like this create real opportunities for working people in our region to bring hundreds of good paying construction jobs and give local skilled tradesmen and women the chance to work closer to home instead of traveling across the country. I also want to acknowledge the concerns that some community members have raised. Questions about diesel generators, noise, and other impacts are valid. Those concerns are the kind of issues that can often be addressed with good planning solutions such as cleaner burning natural gas backup power or sound barriers to eliminate outside noise. Listening to those concerns can turn a bad project into a great project for the community. Beyond jobs, this project strengthens Hermantown in other ways. Right now, the land generates about $80,000 in taxes. Once built, it could possibly be closer to 8 million in commercial tax revenue, helping fund schools and roads and community services without raising taxes on local Hermantown residents. Um, but from my perspective, someone who lives in Hermantown, this is a type of project that creates careers, supports families, and strengthens the local economy. If done correctly, it should be something that helps Hermantown, not hurts it. In conclusion, I I think there's something everybody in this room can agree with is that we're all here because we want something good for Hermantown. We all have different opinions. Uh hopefully we can work together to work them out. Thank you for your time. [47:19] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Thank you. Next is Joanne Bates. Joanne? Oh, I didn't see you moving. Sorry. It's okay. Name and address, please. [48:07] **Joanne Bates:** Joanne Bates, 5369 Morris Thomas Road, Hermantown Minnesota. All right. Members of this esteemed council tell me not to worry about a hypers scale data center because Minnesota has good laws to protect us. But their immense size, how their operations are beyond what most of us can imagine, and the new ways they find to walk on the edge or outside the rules means we are still experiencing the innovative ways they have of damaging our environment and stealing our money. It was September 2025 when I first heard of the hypers scale data center coming to a location 2.5 miles from my home. I knew very little about data centers. Um, basically I didn't even know the name. Um, so my husband and I did some door knocking in the affected area to gather information. I think it was the first house we door knocked on. Um, it was a majestic log home. Um, the woman there told us they had recently sold their home and were not at liberty to tell us anything about the sale. Um, she said she had told her husband, "We'd better accept their offer and get out of here." As we stood on her stoop talking, her husband was just coming in with a tree in his tractor bucket that he was going to transplant. It appeared that he was struggling to give up his long-term habit of improving their land. The yard was covered with precious, huge antique equipment. She told us the agreement gave them help with moving these items. The visits we made that day left us more confused. We did not learn much either at the October 6th Hermantown City Council meeting which drew about this many people. Since then I have attended most of the Hermantown city council meetings. The mayor has promised that even though the water and sewer lines go by my house, we will be not forced to connect and pay the connection fees. I believe you. But when we sell, the new owners will be forced to pay for that connection. In effect, there will be a lien against our property to be paid by the new owners. And instead of the likelihood that my property values will increase, I now face the likelihood that um my property values will decrease. Thank you for your time. [51:04] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Thank you. Next is Eleanor Dolan. [51:14] **Eleanor Dolan:** Hi, my name is Eleanor Dolan. I live at 806 North 23rd Avenue West in Duluth. Um, so yeah, I live just about seven miles from the proposed data center site. And as you saw, many of the people who are here as residents—the people who voted to represent you—are overwhelmingly wearing red, asking you to stop this data center. We don't—our little grassroots campaign doesn't have the budget for fancy shirts, so we're not all matching. Um we uh we are here to ask that you do conduct a full environmental impact statement and not just do the AUAR. Um the state is considering new regulations because of the new technology that these hypers scale data centers are and I ask that we take the time the state is taking to fully understand the impact of these projects. Um because really temporary jobs are not worth the loss of trust in government, the destruction to our earth, the health impacts on residents, and the overall risks we take on as a community by rushing this project. And really, what does AI give us? Mass surveillance, AI psychosis, a loss of critical thinking. What we really need is a plan for a sustainable climate future. And this will set us back. I agree. We need jobs. We need affordability, but these are systemic issues. We cannot fix this with just one new project as—as as other speakers—it has potential to worsen our economy. We need to address affordability and create jobs in a way that builds a better world. There's so much potential for the future and we need to not be so narrow-minded and only consider options that are gifted to us on a silver platter. Instead, we should ask for why it seems so easy and why it didn't exist before. Because sometimes things are just too good to be true. Instead, we need to build the city and the community we want to see. I hope to see a world where workers and neighbors are coming together on projects that heal our earth and benefit us as a community and not the billionaires at Google and BlackRock. Overall, we need to be very wary of Google, BlackRock, and other major corporations who are trying to use their wealth and resources to take advantage of rural communities like this. We need to be paying attention. We need to be doing our due diligence. Their priority is not us. It's exploiting the resources we have and the labor of this community for the highest possible profit. Instead, let us together come together and create a better world by the community for the community. [54:15] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Thank you. Next is Bob Colemire. [54:21] **Bob Colemire:** My name is Bob Colemire. I live at 5757 St. Louis River Road, Hermantown, and I'm one football field away from the site. Uh, I too had a question about the um NDAs. Um, I'm not sure if the whole city of Hermantown was under an NDA in the last 6 months or year. Um, I only read in a Freedom of Information Act uh note from uh Mr. Ronchetti who said that the whole city is under an NDA. So that's my comment with the NDAs. I don't know where we're at. Right, Councilor Geisler, I really do appreciate all the questions you ask um at I've watched you at the pre-agenda meetings and it's very very very very telling and it answers questions that I come up with and I like to ask questions but I'm not given a public forum to do that. So how do I get my questions answered? You say you know how I feel, but you will never know how I feel until your house is under siege by one of these projects. They're too big. They're too close to me, and I am searching for options. Okay. Um, Mayor Boucher, families in my Adolf area are already impacted by six months of uncertainty from the massive proposed project. Wives, husbands, and their children are hurting physically and mentally. Now, we are faced with seven more months of uncertainty. We are consumed by what's directly facing us. It's unhealthy. Mayor, your off-the-cuff comment the other day—you said, "has anyone heard of Google" in a smiley way eliciting laughter from the mayor's group? Too many of us—this issue is—to many many many of us this issue is not a laughing matter. We are human beings and we see our beloved homes are under threat. Thank you. [57:13] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Thank you. Next is Karen Harmon. [57:26] **Karen Harmon:** Good evening. Karen Harmon, 5279 West Arrowhead Hermantown. Um, I haven't been to as many of these meetings as some of the other uh of your other constituents, but every time I come, there are more and more questions that I'm not getting answers to. So, I am not as articulate as some as my associates, but I have some questions I want to pass on. Um, I was torn when I heard that Google was going to be the owner of the data center and now we know it's not a Fortune 50, it's a Fortune 5 and they are proposing an energy affordability and efficiency program for residential customers, which is a wonderful thing for a lousy 5 million dollars and we don't know if that's annual or if that's a single payment. Do you know other communities have gotten a heck of a lot more than that? What are we worth? Another thing about Minnesota Power—the gentleman that spoke this evening, um Mr. Frank Frederickson, he had some wonderful information. Um, and I like the graph that had the states on it where you had how much power and how much the cost was going to be. I like that. But what they were comparing Minnesota to and where things were going wasn't—it didn't make any sense. California, yes, it's going to be way up there. It's darn expensive. But on that graph, neither uh Michigan nor Wisconsin was identified. They're on the Great Lakes. How is that going to affect them and their water usage? Also, he's talked a lot about Texas and their grid and how much they are spending and how much they're worth. However, Texas is the only state with its own electric grid. It's not regulated the same way Minnesota is. So, how can you compare it? [59:52] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** 30 seconds. Karen. [59:55] **Karen Harmon:** Thank you. Um, I have to add on the AUAR, so I'll be back. [1:00:13] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Thank you, Tom Bates. [1:00:34] **Tom Bates:** Tom Bates, 5369 Morris Thomas Road in Hermantown. Okay. Um, you know, this data center is a terrible fit for a neighborhood. It's been brought up. But I had an idea. I had an idea. You guys union men, I was a union man for like 30 years. So don't you go looking at me funny, okay? 30 years, different unions. But here's the deal. If we built this thing on the Iron Range, plenty of water, plenty of room to make all the noise you want. Anybody here been an attack plant? Yeah. They're quiet, right? Quiet as a mouse. Anyway, um I think it's a better fit. And boy, no uh no problems up there, you know, just slide it right in. Um okay, I know I talk funny. Another point I wanted to make—and I don't know that anybody's made it, maybe they have—but BlackRock and Google don't have any allegiance to the United States of America. They're international corporations. They're international institutions. And Google is big enough and strong enough that they're beyond countries. And this is what Eisenhower worried about. Okay, this is probably—or not probably—this is what Eisenhower worried about. Um I I'm pretty sure in what I'm saying here that Hermantown and Minnesota will lose tax money. This will cost Hermantown a lot in property values. If you build it here in a in a neighborhood like this, our property taxes will not be available to you as much. That's something to really think about. um it we're going to have uh noise, light, air, and water pollution from this plant. It's just kind of a fact. Um, and somebody brought up the the big turbine driven generator sets. I don't know who brought it up, but they they produce um nitrous oxide, CO2, carbon monoxide, unburned hydrocarbons, but really, really, really fine particulate. And that has been a terrible problem for people when these things are located in a neighborhood like this. And so if they do use the turbine driven—you know, like they use jet engines to run these big generator sets—not only are they loud, sound like an aircraft taking off, but— [1:04:00] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Time. [1:04:03] **Tom Bates:** I know. All you got to do is look at me. I've been here before once or twice, but but the real fine particulate is a real problem for people. So that's all I got to say. But I sure support my union brothers and sisters. I don't think we have to lose on this one. I think we can fight for a different location and everybody can win. [1:04:14] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Thank you. Next is Hannah Bellance. Name and address, please. [1:04:29] **Hannah Bellance:** Hannah Balivance. Uh 5491 Hermantown Road. Um my name is Hannah Balivance. I am a Hermantown resident of 28 years, born and raised. And now I am raising my children here. I am also a union drywall finisher with Local 106 as well as now a double union household with my significant other who is sheet metal local union 10. Our household is 100% in support of this data center as it would bring many jobs to many of us men and women for years to come. It would supply us with stability and structure to raise our families here, keep us locally working as many of us are traveling right now and away from our children and our families. Many of us work overnights or are not working at all as there is not enough work locally to sustain us all to stay working. This project would supply work for those like me and my family and gives us the sustainability to stay here and raise our children here and go to school here. They can so that they can raise their children and and continue on for years and years to come. It would supply work and economic growth for many years. Thank you. [1:05:42] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Thank you. Next is Clarissa E. [1:05:59] **Clarissa E:** Clarissa E, 3505 Soulway Road, Hermantown—but I'm in Solway Township, but that is my mailing address. Uh, this project will be in my backyard. I'll have to hear it, see it, feel it reverberate, see the 200-year-old oak trees from Oak Hill cleared, see the animals leave, lose the fish from Rocky Run that I fish with my family, and lose the sanctuary my children have called home their entire lives. It's really insulting to hear that I simply don't have the right facts, that I'm scared, that my reaction is fear-based, that I'm just saying no to progress, development, or to jobs. And I have two responses. I don't have the wrong facts, and I'm not afraid. I have the facts that residents across the country have when hypers scale data centers are built in their backyards. They see the destruction to land, the decrease in their home values, and the increase in energy demands and costs. And two, if I don't have the facts, it's because they were purposely hidden from the public behind NDAs. Secret names like Project Loon, closed door meetings, and hidden partners. But I don't think that's what this is about at all. Actually, I don't think it's a facts debate. I think it's about values. It's what we as individuals and communities place value in. And I value my home, my children, the air we breathe, the water that surrounds us. And I fear—others—it's about money. I respect the unions. I really do. I was a proud member of AFSCME for decades. I respect hard work. I respect people need and want local jobs. I respect the people in green from Yes Minnesota. But respectfully, this is my backyard. It's my home. It's my sanctuary. I'm not coming into your backyards, your homes, and telling you that I should be allowed to build something in your backyard so that I can make money. And who is Yes Minnesota? Andy Campano is the chair, Minnesota Pipe Trades Association. Jennifer Buyers, the treasurer, Minnesota Chamber of Commerce. And guess who? Jennifer Cady, vice chair of Minnesota Power. That's who Yes Minnesota is. I think it's easy to say you would live next to a data center, that you would live next to this construction. I liken that to someone who has never served in the military, never wore the uniform, has never put their lives on the line, but sends others into battle. [1:08:33] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** 30 seconds. [1:08:35] **Clarissa E:** I say this as a military veteran. I am a veteran. And I would never send others into a battle that I haven't fought myself. And so I ask this—do not say you want this in your backyard, that you would live next to this data center, unless you are a homeowner near this project. And that is not fear-based. That is reality. Thank you. [1:08:52] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Thank you. Lynn Anderson. Name and address, please. [1:08:58] **Lynn Anderson:** Lynn Anderson, Family Home 401 Gete Road, Hermantown. The most important thing that I think is important for you to think about is the long-term impact—the 10, 20, 30, 40 years on this area—that would happen if you destroy a wetlands, a mature forest, a trout stream, a residential area that people have built their homes in. Our home is two to three years old. We bought it because of what was posted and what we visually saw on the Hermantown website—small country living next to an accessible city life and amenities. Um I urge you to do an in-depth environmental study of this project um for your own credibility and integrity and to assuage residents who are deeply concerned about it. There will be terrible noise, air pollution and heat. And also the jobs that are talked about—the jobs may be short-term and there may be some to build it, but then these data centers are staffed by one or two IT people, not in the trades, but IT people. And oftentimes it's done remote. My brother did that in Oregon for a data center. and um the jobs I I don't think are going to fall through other than the construction in the short term. So um I urge you to really uh do a thorough environmental review and thank you for listening. [1:11:06] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Thank you. Next we have Travis Draina and uh James Thorensson is seated three minutes to Travis. Please just start with your name and address. [1:11:23] **Travis Draina:** I'm Travis Draina. I live on 5757 Hermantown Road. um which is—that is within one mile of the new proposed site. Um so to start out um I I'm a aerospace engineer. Um I have a PhD in aerospace engineering and I worked at Los Alamos for five years until we moved back up here to be closer to family. Um so I do know—I write computer software. I know a lot about servers and data centers. um now so I have questions—and since time is short—I do want to just go right—so mine are AUAR questions but they stem from the nature of the data center and some of the shortcomings. So my first question is a clarification—so will this new AUAR legally replace and nullify the old one? That's—I mean—we deserve an answer on that, a clear yes, this is a legally new binding agreement and that we're not mixing and matching. I think that's a fair question. Um and so now the reason I ask that—there's a few things in the AUAR. Um, one of them is wastewater. And so I'm asking if the new one will address the wastewater. And the reason is that it says in the old one that only domestic wastewater should be considered in an AUAR. Industrial wastewater would be coming from industrial uses that are excluded from review through an AUAR process. That's page 42. So that would mean if you do the new one, you can still get through on this exclusion—you know, I mean, so if that's the benefit you want. Um, so you basically sidestep the wastewater completely. You just say, "Nope, it's not handled under an AUAR," which is a good reason to not do that, right? For if you want to go through the full process. um, Okay. Are we going to get a proper number on water usage? Because right now it says 50,000 gallons per day. I was at Los Alamos. We had an acres sized machine room, rows and rows of servers. I have a hard time believing 50,000 gallons. Um you know, it would be good to show what the new cooling technology is. Um they use evaporative cooling. They spray—you know—onto the radiators and then that—you know—so you burn a lot of water, especially in New Mexico. So that's a that's a good question. I think that one deserves a fair answer, a realistic answer. Um and then another thing that was brought up with the turbines or the diesels, whatever the—you know—Minnesota Power said these are going to be somewhere else maybe. Clarification on that would be good. So, because the current AUAR just says it's not applicable. It says it's listed as zero. So, what we wonder is, is there an estimated number on-site? Are they diesel? Are they natural gas? Uh again they're listed as zero and and if it is greater than zero, will they be equipped with particulate capturing systems—DEF, which is diesel exhaust fluid—to capture the nitrogen oxides? Um okay so let's jump to the next question. Uh will the AUAR address noise generated by the cooling towers and then also by the the on-site power generation if there is any? Um, and the reason I ask about the on-site cooling is the towers do generate a really low frequency hum and that is noticeable. Like right now my neighbors and I we can hear the transformers and those aren't under much load yet, right? That's a—what—100 or 60 hertz, something like that. They just buzz. Different times of the day you hear it more, especially if it's cold out. Um we know that'll increase if the load goes up to you know 500 megawatts um which is larger than the draw of say Cloud, for example. um okay so then questions like okay what is the frequency, what is the amplitude, what will the transformer noise be like? Just good estimates that would help. Um and then finally, another question AUAR related: is there a disposal plan that you're going to talk about when the servers are decommissioned? Because in Los Alamos we had rows—I mean semi-trucks come in to set these things up, forklifts go in, they move these things around, they hook up all the water—the chilled water—all the power. When they're done—which six years is not that is not unreasonable—six year life, GPUs running 100% all the time, six years max at Los. They just disappear. Semi-trucks come, they load them up and they're gone. Where do they go? So I mean to be fair we understand why those go somewhere to be shredded or whatever. Where do they go here? People will think oh they're recycled. They're not recycled. They're the most difficult thing—they're as difficult to recycle as Tesla batteries or any electric car battery. They're terrible. You burn them or you do something else. If you look it up, there is no recycling plan. That's what they normally do is send them to China. China just stockpiles them. Um, okay. Sorry. Let's get back on track. So, they disappear. Okay. So, then, okay, last two questions. One of them is—like—are the good news for Minnesota power? So, my question is, when can we expect our power bills to decrease? Okay. I I'm looking forward to it. I want them to go down, you know—was crazy price, five six hundred bucks a month electric, if you have an old house that has the dual fuel thing, which they've been shutting off very regularly now. Um and then also another good question, if we're going to have all this revenue coming in, can we expect our property taxes to decrease? And could we get that in writing? You know, I mean, that would be great. 50%? Cancel the road assessments? There'd be good things here. Like if there is that much revenue, at least do something for the residents that live by it. Um am I at 6 minutes? [1:17:40] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Yes. [1:17:42] **Travis Draina:** Okay. So, I'm just going to say one last thing. For the constituents you guys represent that live here, why don't we put it to a vote and just let us all decide? I I think that would be fair. There are people for it. I get that. There's people against it and we're on both sides. [1:17:57] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Thank you. Next is Kathy Colemire. Name and address, please. [1:18:25] **Kathy Colemire:** Kathy Colemire, 5757 St. Louis River Road. Um, I just wanted to mention that um, the mayor did a great job talking about Google coming into this community. He talked a lot about the regional value of it. Um, and a lot of that regional value will actually be for the city of Hermantown. And I think you got a lot of positive feedback. The whole group of you did after hearing about that. However, along with the added value it will bring, it will also have regionwide effects that are not positive. And I think a lot of people have already talked about this tonight. Things like the amount of electricity that will be used. Will Minnesota Power be able to continue providing that in the green way that they've talked about—our water quality? They're talking about a closed loop system. The closed loop loop system water is contaminated picking up anti-corrosives, anti-scaling agents and biocides. Is WLSSD equipped to handle all of those? Also, just the space involved for a data center. You're trying to put it in a residential area and it just takes up a lot of space. It'll be a really eyesore for anyone driving by. Local impacts—those living close to it—noise, air quality, the lights. I just want to urge you not to have—not to be in a race to the bottom, but rather a race to the top and to know what Google is actually contracting you for. So, I think other things have already been mentioned tonight. So, thank you. I really appreciate it. [1:20:43] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Thank you. Next is Ed Montgomery. Name and address, please. [1:20:58] **Ed Montgomery:** Ed Montgomery, 5713 St. Louis River, Hermantown. Um, like others, I think you guys look great in your green shirts, all showing up. It looks nice. It is going to make a great picture on the news, but it doesn't change anything. Meaning, you're still on the wrong side of history. And you guys know it. You just haven't admitted it yet. The reason I know it is because there was a survey last week in the news that said three quarters of the people are against this thing, right? So, three out of four of your constituents that voted you in office said, "No, we don't want this." Right? There's 22% that said they're for, and most those people have something to gain. Right? There's some other numbers that are really interesting too. And the reason I know you're on the wrong side of history—one is because it's not too late to change this, right? 98 billion dollars in these projects have been cancelled and put off in the last 6 months in 12 different states. $98 billion where the local leaders stood up and had courage and said, "We're not going to do it. We're going to stop it. We're down the path, but we don't have to go all the way." Uh, another number: 142 communities across the country are actively fighting these things. Right? It's easy to show up at a city council meeting once, but all these people behind me in red shirts and speakers, we show up every Sunday night. We meet, we talk every day. Um, we're putting our own money to to buy signs and buy shirts. That's—this 142 communities across the country fight these things hard. Another number: 300. More than 300 bills regulating and restricting these things have been filed in the first 6 weeks of 2026. That's how we know you're on the wrong side of history. 300 bills are making their way through state legislatures to try to kill these things. and you guys are still trying to ram it forward for us. There's another two dozen lawsuits across 12 states highlighting the legal and environmental risk to cities like ours. Right? All that to say, you're clearly on the wrong side of this thing. You just haven't figured it out yet, but you don't have to be. Right? There are these 142 communities and 98 billion in deferred projects where leaders have stood up and said, "Not now, not here, not me," right? And you guys have to find that courage to do the same thing. Just do the right thing. Thank you. [1:23:32] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Thank you. Next is Sarah Winter. Name and address, please. [1:23:48] **Sarah Winter:** I'm Sarah Winter, 3658 Birch Road in Hermantown. Um, and I also want to thank you for your service to our community. This position and this role, especially with a big controversial and especially with a big consequential thing like this, is hard work and I appreciate the work that you're doing. Um, we hear a lot about how this data center will be different. This one won't use enormous amounts of water. It won't be so loud that people can hear it for miles like others. This one won't cost our residents. This one will provide jobs unlike the others. "Unlike the others" seems like one of those moments that you should stop and think about a project like this. Unlike all the others, unlike all the problems um that my aunt is experiencing living near a data center in Indiana, like my brother experienced living near a lot of them in Virginia. Um perhaps these are unintended consequences that people are experiencing. perhaps their city council couldn't see what would happen. And maybe that's the case here, too. Maybe that's one of the key problems with our seemingly poorly done AUAR. Um, so I'm really glad that we're considering doing a better one. Um, and I'm thankful for the people who know to ask these questions about whether the new one will be legally binding and all of the really knowledgeable information that's been shared tonight. I do want to encourage you to question these things. Um, again, I'll say that we moved here because of the values that were talked about tonight because we love the rural, we love the quiet, we love the darkness at night. I've raised my four kids here—two are still in school at Hermantown. And that's the kind of community that I value that I want to be a part of. Um not the kind of community that has a hyperscale data center in it. Um so I also support the local building trades. Um I heard them when they said growth without a plan is just sprawl. And yes, the growth and the plan that the Hermantown citizens said that they wanted when they completed the Adolf Area small area plan, when the 2045 comprehensive plan was made. Those didn't recommend this kind of growth for this area. That's not what the citizens of Hermantown wanted. um like the second gentleman who spoke, one of our elders in our in this community, put this in an appropriate place. The place where it's going is not an appropriate place for it. And I just I haven't heard any guarantees that this project would use local business trades. um if it's going to go forward, you need to make sure that all those ducks are in a row, please. Thank you. [1:26:45] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Thank you. Next is Eric Edenberg. Name and address, please. [1:27:06] **Eric Edenberg:** I'm Eric Edenberg. I'm at 5425 Morris Thomas Road and I want to thank you very much for uh working on this. I want to come and talk about a couple of things tonight with regards to the data center. Um first of all the low frequency sound—low frequency sound is detrimental to human health. It can decrease cognitive function, increase sleep disorders, increase respiratory impairments, ear pain and vibratory sensations in solid organs. Um it also can cause psychological distress which is intense annoyance, agitation, distraction and increased anxiety. Now I want to be very careful here and let you know I am not reflexively opposed to the data center and I live one mile away, but I do believe we can make it better. And so I would really encourage you to not have or not to allow an air cooled system. Rather, a water cooled system is much quieter and it lends itself to district heating which would be a huge boon to this region. In fact, if you were to drop this data center into a European community, that European community would leap at the opportunity to have the district heating from the waste heat, which from a 500 megawatt system would be something like 40 billion BTUs per day. And so therefore, I would ask you to consider: one, passing an ordinance laying claim to the waste heat. Number two, require a water cooled system instead of an air cooled system. Three, lay down pipes for a district heating system while putting in the utilities. You can cap them on the end for a bit if you want, but don't dig it up again. And four, organize a task force to coordinate the formation of a heat district with surrounding communities such as Duluth and Proctor, etc. This could be a huge boon for this region if we were to do it right. And to the union members who are in this room, I I would really recommend that you work on this together with people in this community. And the reason I say that is because you can build a a data center in a fairly short period of time. But to put down a heating system, somebody's got to lay down the pipe. Somebody has to install the heat pumps. Somebody has to wire those up. You could have work for decades if we do this right. Let's go ahead and work on it together. Thank you. [1:29:44] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Thank you. Next is Brandon Parker. Hi. Name and address, please. [1:30:02] **Brandon Parker:** Hi. Yes. Uh I'm Brandon Parker. I live at 621 Atlantic Avenue in Duluth, Minnesota. It's cute that Frank from Minnesota Power views this process as transparent when advancing this project has been hidden entirely behind NDAs. And considering his presentation tonight revealed no new details, it is apparent that this project scope is still very much a secret. So an AUAR at this point would be particularly meaningless, just like the last one. The entire argument for an AUAR instead of an EIS is predicated on the assumption that Hermantown is a responsible government unit. But when there are economic incentives clouding your vision and overriding concerns for energy usage, water usage, noise pollution, environmental impact, societal and community impacts, then Hermantown is no longer neutral nor responsible. The claim that it is enough that an AUAR be conducted by a handpicked engineering firm rather than a much more comprehensive and unbiased environmental impact statement review that would be conducted by the appropriate state authorities is an atrocious lie and an insult to the community you represent. States across the country and the state of Minnesota are in the process of re-evaluating how data centers are approved, including banning the use of NDAs and forcing EIS reviews while also weighing the possibility of a moratorium on data center projects entirely. With that considered, why can't we slow down? Why ram it through against overwhelming consensus against it? And why, if you are so confident that this project is right for our communities, don't you simply submit to a more comprehensive and unbiased review and take proactive measures that would relay confidence in the project that you seek to advance? Finally, let's also keep in mind that none of these review processes measure the negative societal impacts of AI proliferation. The fact that the AI industry is an economic bubble that is set to depreciate and pop. Nor does it weigh the concerns over how AI data centers are increasingly used to surveil domestic populations, advance propaganda, and induce psychosis. It erodes our collective capacity for critical thinking and cognition. And AI is currently being used to commit egregious military war crimes. Industries of war and private equity firms like BlackRock love that you can't court martial a computer after it drops a bomb that erases the lives of over 150 children in Iran. None of the propaganda in the jobs Minnesota handout addresses or seeks to counter those prevailing community concerns, nor the authentic worries over a viable and livable future within a rapidly deteriorating ecological crisis that is being advanced for the short-term interests of monopoly corporate profits at the expense of the majority. It's quite something to witness Minnesota Power and BlackRock and Google effectively denying residents access to local government via astroturfing a bunch of union bros to signal support. If they were actually able to convince people this is a good idea, then they wouldn't need to astroturf a support campaign to counter an authentic grassroots movement that is overwhelmingly showing that residents don't want this. You all need to be asking yourselves why our communities should be hitching our wagon to this cancerous fugazi gamble. Say no to the data center and yes to the health and well-being of your residents. [1:33:17] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Thank you. Next is Brian Bergeron. Name and address, please. [1:33:39] **Brian Bergeron:** Brian Bergeron, 5164 Country Lane, Hermantown. So, I feel that the proposed hypers scale data center in Hermantown should not move forward. While large technology projects often promise economic development and tax revenue, the Hermantown project raises serious concerns about transparency, environmental impact, and the long-term character of the Hermantown area. First, the process that brought this proposal forward has been deeply troubling. For more than a year, discussions about the Project Loon occurred behind behind closed doors while city officials and partners operated under non-disclosure agreements. Residents were left in the dark about a development that could transform over 400 acres of rural land into an industrial complex. Communities deserve openness and honesty from their leaders, especially when decisions could permanently reshape their environment and quality of life. Second, the environmental implications of a hypers scale data center are enormous and still poorly understood in this case. The proposed site contains wetlands, trout streams, sensitive watershed areas, and environmental advocates have already challenged whether the project received adequate review, arguing that the studies conducted so far do not fully assess the potential impact of such a massive development. When the stakes include water resources, wildlife habitat, and the integrity of the surrounding ecosystem, an AUAR is inadequate. Thirdly, the scale of the project is unprecedented for the Hermantown community. Plans for multiple buildings totaling roughly 1.8 million square feet on a campus spanning hundreds of acres. These facilities operate around the clock, consuming vast amounts of electricity and potentially bringing noise, light, traffic, and heavy industrial infrastructure into what has long been a very quiet rural area and on some level was promised to maintain that quiet rural area and character. So supporters argue that the data center will create jobs and expand the local tax base, and for a short time it probably would. But hypers scale data centers are not large employers once the construction ends. In many communities, these facilities provide relatively few permanent jobs compared to their immense land use and energy demands. And then we've also heard concerns about—what about a stranded facility? What is the offramp to this project? Most importantly, development decisions should reflect the will and the interest of the community. Many residents closest to the site have expressed strong opposition, arguing that Hermantown is simply the wrong place for such a massive industrial facility. I would strongly encourage you to review the survey conducted by the University of Wisconsin Superior just recently published February 20th by the Center of Research and Evaluation Services. Survey results show strong opposition among the residents living close to the proposed site in Hermantown. Within a five mile radius of the proposed data center, which incorporates the entire geographic area of Hermantown, 75% of respondents either strongly opposed or opposed the project while 22% strongly support or support it. And if you condense that radius down further—down to one mile—as we've heard from a lot of passioned pleas and opinions here, you go up to 84% oppose or strongly oppose the project. So I I think you have to ask yourselves where's the support for this project? Is it just Google, BlackRock, or various chambers of commerce? We've heard from the trades. Of course they're going to be for this project, but the support doesn't seem to reside in the citizenry of Hermantown. My thoughts keep going back to the meeting in October where 50 some residents spoke passionately, some breaking with emotion describing their personal opposition where they live next to or very close to the project and hours and hours of testimony. And then what I saw was a very quick vote and out the door. I thought that was just terribly dismissive of the people who spent hours testifying against the project. So I think it's a time to reconsider. At a minimum, a full and transparent EIS should occur before any further permits are granted. Even better would be a serious discussion about whether this project belongs somewhere else entirely. Thank you. [1:38:46] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Graves. Anyone else on the list? Okay, we will move on to the consent agenda. Consent agenda includes minutes approval or correction of the March 2nd, 2026 city council continuation minutes and accounts payable approved general city warrants from March 1st, 2026 through March 15, 2026 in the amount of $854,197.34. Do we have a motion? [1:39:19] **Councilor Brian LeBlanc:** Move to approve. [1:39:24] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Motion by Councilor LeBlanc to approve. Is there a second? [1:39:24] **Councilor Joe Peterson:** I'll second. [1:39:27] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Roll call, please. [1:39:27] **City Clerk Alissa McClure:** Councelor Gler? **Councilor John Geissler:** Aye. **Alissa McClure:** Councelor Jelly? **Councilor Andy Hjelle:** Aye. **Alissa McClure:** Councelor Leblah? **Councilor Brian LeBlanc:** Aye. **Alissa McClure:** Councelor Peterson? **Councilor Joe Peterson:** Aye. **Alissa McClure:** Mayor Bush? **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Aye. [1:39:41] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Next is resolutions. Resolution 2026-35, resolution authorizing the director of finance and administration to amend certain budgets and make transfers. Is there a motion? [1:39:51] **Councilor John Geissler:** I'll move to approve. [1:39:51] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Motion by Councilor Geissler to approve. Is there a second? [1:39:51] **Councilor Andy Hjelle:** I'll second. [1:39:57] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Mr. Moulder, could you give us a synopsis? [1:40:08] **City Administrator John Mulder:** Sure. Um, we do this at the end of each year. We look at areas where we were over budget for various reasons. Almost always there were very intentional decisions on the part of the council. And in some cases we also had additional revenue. And then also the transfers—again situations where the council made decisions. So, we just want to amend our budget so that our actual and the budget are more closely aligned. [1:40:29] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Thank you. Any questions or comments from councel? We have no one signed up to address this item. Roll call, please. [1:40:40] **Alissa McClure:** Councelor Jelly? **Councilor Andy Hjelle:** Aye. **Alissa McClure:** Councelor Blah? **Councilor Brian LeBlanc:** Aye. **Alissa McClure:** Councelor Peterson? **Councilor Joe Peterson:** Aye. **Alissa McClure:** Councelor Gisler? **Councilor John Geissler:** Aye. **Alissa McClure:** Mayor Buché? **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Aye. [1:40:51] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Next is resolution 2026-36, resolution establishing procedures related to compliance with reimbursement regulations under the Internal Revenue Code. Is there a motion? [1:41:03] **Councilor Joe Peterson:** I'll make a motion to approve. [1:41:03] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Motion to approve by Councilor Peterson. Is there a second? [1:41:03] **Councilor John Geissler:** Second. [1:41:08] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Mr. Moulder. [1:41:10] **City Administrator John Mulder:** So each year when we anticipate issuing bonds for various projects, we ask you to pass this resolution which simply allows us to—in effect we spend money prior to the project happening and then when we issue the bonds we pay us back the money that we spent with the bond proceeds. So we do this each year. We expect to issue bonds this year for the improvement of Lightning Drive, some improvements in utilities in that area, improvement of Ugstad Road, and the creation of the trail in that area. [1:41:48] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Thank you. Any questions or comments from council? And no one has signed up for public input on this. Roll call, please. [1:42:04] **Alissa McClure:** Councelor Leah? **Councilor Brian LeBlanc:** Aye. **Alissa McClure:** Councelor Peterson? **Councilor Joe Peterson:** Aye. **Alissa McClure:** Councelor Gisler? **Councilor John Geissler:** Aye. **Alissa McClure:** Councelor Jelly? **Councilor Andy Hjelle:** Aye. **Alissa McClure:** Mayor Bucher? **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Aye. [1:42:12] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Next, resolution 2026-37 resolution accepting Minnesota Department Employment and Economic Development Contamination Cleanup Grant and authorizing the Mayor and City Clerk to execute subreceipt agreement. Is there a motion relating to this? [1:42:21] **Councilor Andy Hjelle:** Make a motion to approve. [1:42:21] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Motion by Councilor Hjelle to approve. Is there a second? [1:42:21] **Councilor Brian LeBlanc:** Second. [1:42:26] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Mr. Moulder, would you like Mr. Ronchetti to address this? **City Administrator John Mulder:** Yes, please. [1:42:31] **Economic Development Director Chad Ronchetti:** Uh, mayor, council, back in October of 2025, the council approved an application to DEED, the Department of Employment and Economic Development at the state for a contamination cleanup grant for the Fox Ridge at the Pillars. That's the town homes being constructed next to Pillars. Uh, we were awarded that grant for $50,000, which is 75% of the eligible costs. The developer will pay the remaining $25,000—roughly 25%, $16,000. Um this subrecipient agreement is simply a mechanism by which they can request funding from us and we can request it from the state so that the state can provide it to us and we can then provide it to them, acting as a fiscal agent for the money. Um, so I think there's a celebration in here that the grant was awarded and it helped with the development over there. [1:43:26] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Thank you. Any questions or comments from council? Um, just it's good partnership between the city and the developer to help them get their project completed. Anything else? No one signed up for public comment. Roll call, please. [1:43:42] **Alissa McClure:** Councelor Peterson? **Councilor Joe Peterson:** Aye. **Alissa McClure:** Councelor Gisler? **Councilor John Geissler:** Aye. **Alissa McClure:** Councelor Jelly? **Councilor Andy Hjelle:** Aye. **Alissa McClure:** Councelor Blah? **Councilor Brian LeBlanc:** Aye. **Alissa McClure:** Mayor Bucher? **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Aye. [1:43:48] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Next, uh, resolution 2026-38, resolution approving an amendment to an agreement for consulting services to provide review of an alternative urban areawide review with Braun Intertec Corporation in the amount not to exceed $23,000. Do we have a motion relating to this? [1:44:08] **Councilor Joe Peterson:** I'll make a motion to approve. [1:44:08] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Motion by Councilor Peterson. Is there a second? [1:44:08] **Councilor Andy Hjelle:** I'll second. [1:44:24] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Mr. Moulder, should we have Mr. Johnson and Ronchetti address this? **City Administrator John Mulder:** We're going to have Mr. Johnson start off with that and then we'll have Mr. Ronchetti finish that. [1:44:31] **Community Development Director Eric Johnson:** Great. Thank you, Mr. Moulder, Mr. Mayor, members of the council. So, before us this evening is an amendment to the contract with Braun Intertec for review services associated with an alternative urban areawide review. So since early 2025, the city has been working with Braun to provide third-party technical review of documents associated with that alternative urban area review—or an AUAR—located in the Adolf section of the city in section 31. Uh the AUAR process is a Minnesota specific environmental review tool for master plan sequential projects that act as a hybrid between an environmental assessment worksheet and an environmental impact statement. For large scale or specific large projects, the process begins with a formal scoping document which is often called a draft order for review which defines the boundaries and type of development to be studied. So as part of those services that Braun provided us in 2025, they provided their third-party comments along with city staff to comment on the large-scale scoping document which was the first step—the draft AUAR and then the final AUAR document. Uh that final AUAR document was adopted and approved by the city council back in October 6 of 2025. Now since this time, the project proposer Harmony Group LLC, which is a Google owned subsidiary, has developed additional project design details. They've also completed additional analysis and the master planned project will include a data center and related infrastructure. Now as such, the city of Hermantown and the project proposer decided to voluntarily update the AUAR and that this document will serve as an update to that AUAR and nullify the previous AUAR document. So in turn, Kimley Horn, which is the preparing consultant associated with this, will now prepare a new large-scale scoping document associated with or basically an update to that. And then that will be provided to city staff and Braun for our comment and review in order to prepare that draft document at that time. So it is anticipated that this entire process between the large scale scoping document, the draft AUAR and the final AUAR will take approximately 7 months and it's going to really be broken into two parts which I'll briefly touch on here. So first off is the large scale scoping document and then lastly is the AUAR itself. So as part of that large-scale scoping document, what it does is defines the geographic area, looks at development scenarios associated with it and looks at environmental issues such as water quality, infrastructure needs and habitat preservation. Um, this draft large scale scoping document is then submitted to the Environmental Quality Board for the state of Minnesota—or the EQB—and that starts a 30-day public comment period not only open to members of the public but also state agencies associated with that. Uh during that review time they look at the development scenario and look at any specific environmental issues that were not addressed in that draft. Those comments then come back to city staff as the Regulatory Government Unit or the RGU. Uh we then work with the consultants—both Braun and Kimley Horn—to update that draft order that the large scoping document. Uh that comes before council basically for their review and action associated with that which then leads into an AUAR document process. Uh the first step is actually once again the preparing of a draft AUAR document. Uh once again it takes that large-scale scoping document and it continues to expound on that look at additional items associated with that. Um once that is then submitted to the EQB. Once again there's a 30-day public comment period both for members of the public and state agencies. Those comments then come in to the city who in turn shares those with the consultants in order to update that draft AUAR into the final AUAR. At that point, after that final AUAR is completed by the consultant, it goes back to the EQB for another 10-day review period associated with the state agencies for any additional review or comments that way. Lastly, then that document would then come before the city council for potential adoption at that time. So, what I'd like to do then is just touch briefly on some tentative dates as part of the seven-month process. Uh, as I mentioned, we basically would start off with that large scoping document. Uh, that would be generally happening here in March and April. Uh, that publication of that scoping document to the EQB would generally happen in late March or early April. At that time, the city council then would basically accept that large scoping document potentially in May of 2026. Uh then the preparation of the actual draft AUAR would continue building on that large-scale scoping document. Uh that would happen up through June of '26. That publication then of the draft AUAR to the EQB would be generally in June or July of '26. Once again starting that 30-day comment process. Um, city council then would have an acceptance of the draft document and then order the final document potentially in July of '26. Uh, basically then gets into the preparation of that final AUAR document incorporating the comments associated with the various public and state agencies in preparation then of that final AUAR document as well as the mitigation plan. Uh, that essentially would happen up through August through September of this year. Once again, that document is published again to the EQB for comment at that portion. And then lastly, anticipated generally around September of '26, there'd be a council action associated with that final AUAR document. So right now really what this is is just for the amendment to the contract with Braun Intertech to provide third-party review services along with city staff that once again we then would continue to work with Kimley Horn as the preparing consultant of this AUAR process document that way. Uh at this point I'd like to turn it over to Mr. Ronchetti who will provide some additional information. [1:51:12] **Chad Ronchetti:** Thank you mayor, councel. Now that Director Johnson has very clearly articulated the process by which the AUAR will be followed and the anticipated time frame and the opportunities for the public and agencies to be engaged, I'd like to speak to council a little bit about why the AUAR was selected by the city, which is the responsible government unit. So we selected this and we believe that the AUAR is the appropriate document. Our read of the statute is that this is the appropriate document to handle this review. And our assessment was based on three key elements. Number one was that this is a master planned technology campus. This campus has individual and separate phases that will be constructed and each phase will likely exceed the threshold for an environmental impact statement (EIS). And so since it will exceed that impact statement threshold, it disqualifies it from an environmental assessment worksheet or an EAW. The master plan has a prolonged development timeline and it comprises of sequential actions. So it's a number of sequential projects that will happen back-to-back on one geographic site with the full campus buildout expected to take 8 to 10 years. The primary land use is a data center and it includes technological elements that are anticipated to alter the site design and the building design throughout the development timeline and alter the campus master plan. Um and so it's important to note that the AUAR by state statute is not less rigorous than the EIS. It is required by state statute. It is mandated that it must address substantially the same issues as an EAW and an EIS, and the process and the use procedures must be similar in effect to those of an EIS process. That is mandated by state law. State statute also requires that the AUAR provide for a level of analysis comparable to that of an EIS. The state adopted the AUAR process as a means to review incremental impacts accumulating from a series of sequential projects in a certain geographic area. That is what this master plan project proposes. Therefore, the development of this plan fits the AUAR's intended purpose given that the master plan campus would not be built all at once, but rather it would be comprised of four distinct sequential phases built over 8 to 10 year timeline. The AUAR was provided in state statute as a substitute form of environmental review to be used in lieu of an EIS addressing the same issues and utilizing similar procedures. And lastly, staff notes that unlike an EIS which only identifies measures that could eliminate or minimize adverse effects, a mitigation plan—which is the key element drafted from an AUAR—identifies the measures but it also imposes upon future development those measures to mitigate or avoid the adverse effects. So not only identifies them, it also mandates that they avoid them or mitigate them per the plan. It studies the worst case scenario, it creates a mitigation plan to avoid or minimize the impacts within that worst case scenario. And then should that development be proposed to exceed the worst case scenario, the development then—the law would require that it update the mitigation plan and the AUAR should it propose any impacts beyond the guard rails that were presented under the mitigation plan. Um so in summary, this is a data center campus which is a land use that is allowed to use an AUAR process. The AUAR specifically has the rigor of an EIS as required by statute. The state legislature designed the AUAR to provide the flexibility and efficiency for a phased master plan campus that is expected to change over time due to evolving technologies. And the AUAR studies the potential environmental impacts of a worst case scenario of a proposal and creates a plan enforcing rather than simply identifying the mitigation or reduction of those impacts. And again being the worst case scenario, if a development proposal exceeds that worst case scenario, it would have to be updated and go through a public process to get public comment and feedback on the update. So now I'll pause—and I'm not to take City Administrator Moulder's words—but what's before you tonight is only a contract to provide third-party review services for an AUAR. This is not approving a project. It's not approving the AUAR. It's not approving the scoping document. It's not ordering a draft AUAR. It's simply a contract approval and the payment for this third-party review service is paid for by escrow funds which have been deposited by the developer—as have all fees associated, all legal fees, all analysis fees, all everything in terms of contracting has been paid for by the developer through city managed escrow funds in a bank account that we hold control of. [1:56:45] **Councilor John Geissler:** I have a a couple. Um, it was brought up earlier in the public comment about the this one will then supersede the previous AUAR and you in your last couple of statement sentences you said that in the future when it gets updated it the same or similar process will take place. Will this AUAR then be null and void and the new one would be in place or how will that work or will it be just an update to what's already done? **Chad Ronchetti:** Mayor Boucher, Councilor Geissler, yes, thank you for the question. This is an update to the AUAR which means that the updated AUAR will then supersede and nullify the previous AUAR. So both the review and the mitigation plan that is produced from that review will be the governing document. And then should the worst case scenario be proposed to be exceeded at that time, an update process would happen. That update, once conducted with public comment and public process, would then supersede and nullify the previous AUAR. [1:58:07] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Okay. Thank you. Um, I have a couple. One was going to be that question. You mentioned—I I think for those that weren't here during pre-aggenda when you went through this—that an AUAR is also updated every 5 years, or was that an error? **Chad Ronchetti:** Mayor Boucher, that is correct. By statute, the AUAR, regardless of whether or not the worst case scenario is proposed to be exceeded, the AUAR must be updated every 5 years. So it has—it's a living document that has a shelf life, versus an EIS which is a single shot in time and stays a static document for the life of the document. [1:58:33] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** So in that five-year update would there be an opportunity for public comment? **Chad Ronchetti:** Mayor Boucher, that is correct. **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Okay. And you mentioned a timeline on EIS and the fixed nature of it. What is that time limit? Do you know? **Chad Ronchetti:** Mayor Boucher, council, yes. So the EIS being a static document, should a change to the project be proposed that would require—be supplemented—that would require an amendment to the EIS process. And there's a minimum of 120-day timeline as measured from the date to the preparation of notice of adoption. So there's a mandatory 120-day timeline associated with any amendment to an EIS. The AUAR is intended to study a worst case scenario. So any update would have a different timeline than that; it would already have the base of the review conducted and so you would only be evaluating the updated pieces that would require or would have impact on the mitigation plan. [1:59:40] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Thank you. Any other questions from council? I know we have four people that have signed up to speak on this. First one is Emma Rickman. [2:00:03] **Emma Rickman:** Emma Rickman, 5215 Chris Drive. Uh, this is a little bit jumbled because I've added to what I want to say, but I'm keeping it to three minutes this time. Um, I would argue that we are already in the worst case scenario because it's being built where it shouldn't be to begin with. Uh, and I I feel like this comes down to a breach of trust. Like we don't trust that the AUAR is sufficient because this whole process has not been transparent. And you can gaslight me all you want that that is how a typical project unfolds. But the lack of trust is that an AUAR at the end of the day benefits the developer and Google and it doesn't protect the people of this community. Uh as the RGU it feels like you're inherently biased to choose your own plan over anything else. Um, and so I'll just go into what I already have written down. Uh, the messaging the city keeps pushing that the AUAR provides flexibility as you can adapt to various potential development scenarios without having to start a new costly environmental review—benefits of an AUAR also include efficiency, speed, and cost effectiveness, a streamlined process that allows for faster implementation. Well, no wonder, because this is a race to the bottom. These Fortune 5 companies have all the money in the world and they're trying to build it as fast as they can before these legislative efforts get passed so that they can get grandfathered in. Despite an AUAR lending itself to a multi-phase development, this is and always has been a specific project, one that envelops the entirety of the 220 acres rezoned to BLM. This is not mapping out an anticipated development scenario. Might I remind you—and yes, it's a data center. We stand firm that an EIS is what is necessary for this project. We need to know the key environmental, social, and economic issues that are likely to result from this project and a detailed analysis of those issues. Um, going off script here to lean into what Travis had said earlier, if he's still here—this wastewater business being sideskirted is really a concern to me. And I said to Councilor Peterson, as a resident, sometimes this stuff feels so immediate because it is our lives on the line. And so it's another avenue that I am spending my personal time to go down to make sure that I am not being taken advantage of. And lastly, the master plan project. Will the public have access to this? Can Google be more transparent so that we can appropriately and accurately comment during the public period at the EQB for this AUAR business? [2:03:10] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Thank you. Next is Sarah Lopeld. [2:03:26] **Sarah Lopeld:** Sarah Lopeld, 5502 Hermantown Road. I have spent the last few days going over the data request documents and I have found out many interesting things. Much of this is now public on the SHDC website. But probably the most disappointing part is that despite what you keep insisting, this whole project has always been for a data center. Uh, not just including a data center, specifically a massive data center. It has never not been a data center. Uh all the things that have changed with the 2045 comprehensive plan, the change in zoning language, the change in area zoning, the AUAR, all have been specifically done for this data center at the influence of the developer. An email dated September 9th, 2024 from city administrator John Moulder to Joe Wicklund and Chad Ronchetti makes that clear. Uh, in this email, Moulder states that, "Just FYI, talked to the mayor. Key points: data center next to Minnesota Power Substation, $1 billion investment, 50 plus full-time jobs." His response was "Wow." Minnesota Power introduced this project to us. People at county and city of Duluth are aware of this. building company has reached out to named residents and land owners. I redacted that—his comments referring to the mayor: "Should we be talking about this extension of utilities in the comp plan?" I told him that we did make sure that this area would be planned for business like manufacturing. He noted that we would want to be aware of reactions by hands. I'm a bit unsettled that the main concern was the reaction of a single resident family instead of the community as a whole. Uh over the last few months, you have all tried to reassure the concerned citizens that have come to you that you are not approving a data center. That all of the ordinances, resolutions, environmental reviews that have been discussed and passed in these chambers are not approving a data center. Uh but looking through the emails and documents, it has become very clear that every change to the comprehensive 30— [2:06:02] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Seconds. [2:06:03] **Sarah Lopeld:** —every zoning change, the entire original AUAR has been intricately curated and manipulated for the needs of a single project. That project being Google's massive data center campus. I don't think you should continue with an AUAR when the land was originally rezoned in apparent bad faith. So, I will ask you again. If residents of Hermantown show up at a city council meeting to oppose the development of a massive massive data center by Google, will you listen? [2:06:40] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Thank you. Next is—is it Peter Taylor? Name and address, please. [2:06:55] **Peter Taylor:** Peter Taylor, 4198 Solway Road, Hermantown. So the previous AUAR, you know, I think the transparency and public involvement wasn't adequate and significant improvements are needed for this next AUAR. I have a couple of recommendations about all the comment periods associated with this next AUAR, including the one that might start a couple weeks from now. Um you need—you should do more than the legal minimum for public involvement because that's the right thing to do. Couple specific things. Make postcards arrive before day zero of the comment period. Pick a five mile radius around the project area. Send it to everybody. Google can probably pay for that or it can't be that expensive. Um, you have email addresses of a lot of people that commented previously. Send an email to every single person on day zero of the comment period that commented previously on the previous AUAR. Put out a press release. So, every local newspaper says, "Hey, we want your comment. We are actually looking for your comments." And all these local newspapers, maybe they'll publish an article and people will know to comment because you want those comments. You're trying to get comments, right? Um go on a TV show on day zero of the comment period, say, "We're looking for your comments." So, make a concerted effort to seek comments even if it's more than the legal minimum required because that's the right thing to do. Thank you. [2:08:26] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Thank you. Uh did we get to Rachel Johnson? Name and address, please. [2:08:48] **Rachel Johnson:** Rachel Johnson, 5702 Oneida Street, Duluth, Minnesota. Good evening, mayor and counselors. Thank you for the opportunity to speak tonight. Google's announcement in Hermantown is one of the most significant economic opportunities in northeast Minnesota that we've seen in many years. And a project of this scale does deserve serious public discussion as was just mentioned by the previous speaker. And residents do deserve the facts that they can trust and there is a clear process. The Hermantown is using an AUAR—which is an alternative urban areawide review—which we've talked a lot about tonight and under Minnesota law it does and must meet the same scientific rigor that an environmental impact statement also has. The difference is not the quality of the analysis. It is the breadth of the planning. An EIS evaluates a single project at a single moment in time. And the AUAR evaluates the entire area, sets enforceable limits on the noise, the traffic, the water use—all those things that were previously mentioned—and requires an update every 5 years for community planning and long-term sustainable growth. The AUAR is more comprehensive and forward-looking as a tool and it ensures that any future development must stay within the thresholds established today. Hermantown and Google went a step further and voluntarily reopened the environmental review to invite more public input and run a new analysis on the issues that residents have raised, most often including noise, traffic, and lighting. And they were not required to do this, but they chose to. And it's what responsible parties do when they intend to be part of a decision that will last decades. This project will also undergo extensive oversight beyond the city. Upwards of 20 agencies and commissions and tribal nations are invited to review and comment on the AUAR prior to construction. Additional permits will be required before operations can begin. The Minnesota Pollution Control Agency will monitor air and water quality. The Public Utilities Commission will ensure that the electric grid remains reliable and that Minnesota Power customers are protected from rate impacts. Google's commitment to the 700 megawatts of new clean energy will also be evaluated through a separate rigorous regulatory process. This is not a rubber stamp and it is one of the most comprehensive review structures in the country. Apex works across a 10-county region to attract, expand and retain business to strengthen our economy. And we know why companies choose northeast Minnesota. We have the skilled workforce, a strong utility partner and communities that value long-term responsible investment. This project is an opportunity to strengthen our region for the next generations and we should meet it with clarity, confidence, and a commitment for the long-term success of the place that we all call home. Thank you. [2:11:45] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Thank you, Mr. Graves. We have a new list. Karen Harmon. [2:12:05] **Karen Harmon:** Karen Harmon, 5279 West Arrowhead Road, Hermantown. One of the concerns that so many people here tonight have talked about is transparency and how we feel that we haven't been heard and we haven't known what's going on. Right. Okay. Why, if the AUAR is basically the same as the EIS, you don't go ahead and do an EIS to help us understand? The second thing has to do with our neighbors, our indigenous neighbors. Um the concern was raised that there is possibly an indigenous cemetery on this land and that has not been evaluated. When it was brought up earlier—I can't tell you exactly which city council meeting it was—there was nobody available to evaluate the land for indigenous remains. When they were working on I-35, they found indigenous remains. I think it needs to be followed up on and that would help with the 1854 treaty. They are neighbors. And finally, gentlemen—I've brought this up at other meetings—but for those of us that have hearing difficulty, it would be nice if we had a voice to text because it's very difficult to understand you and I'd like to know what's going on. For example, uh the meeting before the city council meeting when you're talking among yourselves, that's fantastic, but that is not then on the website and a lot of good information is passed at that time. So, thank you very much. [2:14:45] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Simon wishes to give a time—and say to who? Uh was it Yoko? She already did. Okay. Sorry. Jackie Dolan. [2:15:01] **Jackie Dolan:** Jackie Dolan, 5842 Old Highway 2, Hermantown. I am asking that you stop the train and that you vote no. This is one step in many steps and just asking you to stop. Stop the train. Listen to your residents and the nearby community members who are going to be directly affected by this data center. The location of this center is completely inappropriate. It doesn't belong in the woods next to rivers and streams and family homes and farms. This is a residential area with a few small businesses. I love that I can run to the Adolf store and grab a gallon of milk. I can't do that at a data center. Let the residents vote to be heard. The feedback is out there. It's starting. It's coming in. I mean, you've gotten hundreds and hundreds of emails, letters, people speaking at city council meetings. It's the worst kind of hubris that you just keep plowing forward. We're begging you to stop and you keep marching forward. What will it take to stop? Just stop. Vote no. Just because you're not paying for all this because the money's been escrowed, it shouldn't matter. It's your time that we're paying for also. And I feel like an additional AUAR is being completed and I think I heard someone say because of input and feedback, but we're telling you no, and I don't feel like that's being heard. I don't feel like my thoughts and feelings matter. There isn't a person in this room that wants to live next to this thing, that wants to survive next to it for 8 to 10 years for all the construction. Just stop. Just vote no. Stop. Thank you. [2:17:15] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Thank you. Next is Sarah Winter. [2:17:26] **Sarah Winter:** Sarah Winter, 3658 Birch Road in Hermantown. Um, I really appreciated that beautifully written professional speech. Um, and I'd like you to just remind you that it is her job to do that. And all of us who are these fairly modest average citizens are having to come each evening to talk about this out of our own time. Um, so I have questions that are average citizen questions about the AUAR plan, and they might seem silly questions, but I'd like to ask them. Um so Mr. Ronchetti went on and on about if the mitigation plan needs to be updated if the impacts exceed the mitigation plan and I'm wondering if the building stops during the comment period and the approval process in the case that the impacts exceed the mitigation plan or does it just continue on increasing those impacts in the meantime? Um, we talked a little bit about who's policing the construction to determine whether the impacts are exceeding the mitigation, but that's not clear in the AUAR and we need to—that is something that we really need to know as citizens about each part of that process. If a neighbor notices something that constitutes an instance of something that exceeds the mitigation plan, what is the process for that report to be given and addressed? Um, when I read through the AUAR—as again an average citizen—it was blank or had the equivalent of ditto marks in so many places previously. And to be transparent, I would love to see it really fully filled out. Please dig in and ask these questions. Don't trust the "most comprehensive process" answer, because whether or not it is the most comprehensive process, these things affect our lives so significantly. And honestly I have very little trust in Mr. Ronchetti's words because in the past they've been so confusing and they actually continue to be that way—that they're not open and transparent and they sound like someone who's fairly defensive. Thank you. [2:19:42] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Thank you. Next is Richard Hilton. [2:19:53] **Richard Hilton:** Richard Hilton again, 5502 Hermantown Road. Sorry I got so heated earlier. Um, I got a little passionate. So, I want to go back in history a little while again. The zoning rules were changed to fit this heavy industrial facility into light industrial zoning without citizen input or telling anybody why. Under heavy industrial—which this data center should be—an AUAR, you wouldn't be able to do it. It's because it should be an EIS. They're not the same—and you can correct me if I'm wrong—but an AUAR is an areawide and scenario-based study. An EIS is a detailed project specific study. Um, if you want to know the real and true impacts of this actual data center—its real noise, real energy demand, real generator footprint, the real traffic, the real emissions, real lighting, and real mitigation—you need to do an EIS. Thank you. [2:21:20] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Thank you. Clarissa E. [2:21:26] **Clarissa E:** Clarissa E, 3505 Solway Road in Solway Township, 1,000 ft from where this would be built. I just have to say—I don't even understand how you're going forward with this given that there's an active lawsuit involving the current AUAR. I I don't even know how you're legally doing that. I also have to express huge concern that Mr. Ronchetti—who I don't believe is a lawyer—I looked you up. Please correct me. But he appears to me to be going through statute and giving you legal advice, which is the unauthorized practice of law. You have a lawyer sitting right there, Mr. Johnson. You have to be just as concerned as I am about how he is going through statute and letting you guys know his interpretation of the law. He is not a lawyer. That is totally inappropriate for him to be going through the statute informing you what an EIS is, what an AUAR is, what is the state statute. That should be coming from your lawyer, not from Mr. Ronchetti. So, it is extremely concerning to me. I don't know how you're going to vote on this responsibly. I brought up before that I don't know why you guys are unanimously voting for things. I never hear no. I never never hear you guys vote no. How can all of these be good ideas? How can all of this be good for Hermantown that you never vote no? I mean, the minuscule voting of no just leaps off the page. Not everything brought to you can possibly be good for the city or the people who live there. So, I just don't know. You're not asking any questions about this. You're getting legal advice from your economic development director. I don't even know what his background is. You have a lawyer. He's not giving you legal advice. I don't know what's going on here. There's an active lawsuit with the AUAR right now. I'm just flabbergasted by what is going on here and I think I'm not alone. Thank you. [2:23:43] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Thank you. No more public comment. Um any comment from council? **Councilor John Geissler:** I have some follow-up questions based on some of the testimony. Um what will be the notification process for review at these 30-day periods? [2:24:08] **Eric Johnson:** So, I'll start and I'm actually going to look to Mr. Wicklund a little bit, who's been managing the city's web page for the—basically we have a homepage associated with the AUAR for that. So um basically to to start the process there'll be a council action for these documents associated with that. Um traditionally what we did is we would notice this out to the EQB. We submit it to the EQB who in turn then notifies the different state agencies, the Native American communities, etc. that this document is filed and it starts the 30-day comment period. Associated with that, we are required to post that notice that this period is now open like we did before for the review process and believe me too that we actually had the web page and we had links to have this information. So that's how we were able to proceed with that and in each one of these steps along the way we still follow those processes that when we come to a next essentially milestone that once again our website is updated—here's the information, this is what you can do to respond to it. [2:25:21] **Assistant City Administrator Joe Wicklund:** Uh to back up on what Mr. Johnson said, yes. HermantownMN.com/project will be updated with all of the dates. Uh, and as we come up on both kind of the council pieces and the public comment periods, there'll be press releases associated with it. So, but the best place that folks can follow that is the updated web page. [2:25:48] **Councilor John Geissler:** Um, following up—the question about what can they see? [2:26:05] **Eric Johnson:** So at each phase it'll be whatever's published and then the final document will include everybody's and all the comments throughout the process and everybody will be able to see that. As far as the documents, yes, the documents are posted to that website. The comments that we receive, we pass those on to the consultants associated with that in order to log those and basically address those within the updated final AUAR. **Councilor John Geissler:** Are each and every one of those comments published on our web page? **Eric Johnson:** No. But they're addressed by the people putting together the report. Yes, those are forwarded on. Now, obviously we get a lot of comments from "no, I don't want this" to actually people asking questions: "How does this affect air, water, etc.?" Those are substantive comments that can be addressed. These questions being asked about cooling and wastewater, etc., would be passed on to the consultants to be addressed. **Councilor John Geissler:** Who determines if a comment is worthy of being addressed? **Eric Johnson:** Braun does it as our third party. [2:27:40] **Councilor John Geissler:** archaeology is there study—is archaeology study part of this to determine possible Native American ruins? **Eric Johnson:** So archaeologists have surveyed the site. Yes. [2:27:46] **Councilor John Geissler:** And then uh lastly... While Mr. Ronchetti was citing a lot of state statutes. I'm assuming that there's been lots of consulting with our legal team on that. [2:28:13] **Chad Ronchetti:** Mayor Boucher, Councilor Geissler, yes. Uh, consulted—I've consulted, Eric's consulted. We've all consulted with legal—both city attorney as well as the litigation representative on the lawsuit as well as the experts on both sides of the table. our third-party reviewer, our documents, and our citations of statute. Of course, we do not make decisions, nor do we make memos in a silo, nor do we give guidance strictly based on one individual's thoughts or opinions or expertise on an item. Uh, this is a team effort. [2:28:38] **Councilor Brian LeBlanc:** Um, what—what revisions or changes to the AUAR justify a public response period? Is it any change—like we forgot a comma—this goes out for 30 days? Or what would trigger a comment period? [2:28:49] **Chad Ronchetti:** Councilor LeBlanc, so if the mitigation plan—if development is monitored by a number of agencies whenever there is a permit issued by that agency, they have to monitor the construction and make sure that those permits are adhered to. If something is proposed or built beyond the permit—or beyond the worst case scenario proposed within the AUAR—that would trigger an update and then that would trigger public comment. No, a comma does not trigger public comment. Um so—and part of what's driving this is the desire to provide more time, more public input, and more reaction to a more precise site plan. Granted the site plan and the development is not fully fleshed out yet. Uh that happens during the special use permit process, during the commercial industrial development process; that's when full sight plans and those types of things are brought forward. We're not to that point yet. So, we're bringing forward a more—we would bring forward a more generic site plan which does show general layouts where substations will be, where data center buildings will be, where offices might be, where fiber connection buildings might be. Those will be clear and identified along with storm water, wetland impacts, all of that stuff. Uh so that—we wanted to be able to bring those details forward into the AUAR now that we have them and we have the time. So that's what's triggering the update at this point. [2:30:48] **Councilor Brian LeBlanc:** Yeah. So my understanding is the AUAR is a living document, right? If something changes within the project, the AUAR changes to mirror that. Those changes trigger a 30-day comment window? [2:31:02] **Chad Ronchetti:** Mayor Boucher, Councilor LeBlanc, so it is a living document by way of: if something changes that will increase the impacts or or alter the impacts in a significant way, that would trigger an update. Uh but it's a flexible document in that if something changes but would not have a greater impact or a more significant impact, then they would be able to use the environmental review as it stands. [2:31:33] **Councilor Brian LeBlanc:** I'm going to ask it again because I I don't feel like I—if the AUAR has to be changed—right, site plan changes, we have to move this or that or whatever—does that trigger a public comment period? [2:31:52] **Eric Johnson:** No. So that's why we look at the worst case scenario. We look at square footage. Whatever that square footage is, that's the maximum square footage that the AUAR basically shows. Now let's say one building encompasses all that square footage; you have that ability to do that because that square footage has not been exceeded. So it's basically if you would exceed that threshold, then that would mandate an update to that AUAR. [2:32:35] **Councilor John Geissler:** Any other comments from councel? Uh again just following up—I asked a question during pre-aggenda and that question was asked during testimony about uh—we are proceeding down the road with a lawsuit going on. If it's determined that the EIS is required by the court system, we are going to throw this all away and start with an EIS. Correct? [2:33:03] **Chad Ronchetti:** Mayor Boucher, Councilor Geissler, looking at the city attorney getting a head nod—uh, yes. If the court decides that the AUAR is not the document and that the EIS is, we would do an EIS. [2:33:23] **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Thank you. Okay. Are we done with comments? Roll call please. [2:33:38] **Alissa McClure:** Councelor Gisler? **Councilor John Geissler:** Aye. **Alissa McClure:** Councelor Jelly? **Councilor Andy Hjelle:** Aye. **Alissa McClure:** Councelor Ablah? **Councilor Brian LeBlanc:** Aye. **Alissa McClure:** Councelor Peterson? **Councilor Joe Peterson:** Aye. **Alissa McClure:** Mayor Buché? **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Aye. [2:33:48] **Councilor Andy Hjelle:** Motion to recess. **Councilor Joe Peterson:** Second. **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** All in favor say aye. **Council:** Aye. **Mayor Wayne Boucher:** Meeting adjourned.