As an expert transcriptionist, I have analyzed the context, names, and titles mentioned in the meeting to identify the speakers. This transcript appears to be a **White Bear Lake City Council** meeting from 2024. **Speakers identified:** * **Mayor:** Dan Eaton * **Mr. Lindahl:** Jason Lindahl (Community Development Director) * **Council Member Walsh:** Kevin Walsh * **Council Member Edberg:** Bill Edberg * **Council Member Hughes:** Heidi Hughes * **Ms. Longenick:** Caley Longenick (Assistant City Manager/Staff) * **Miss Crawford:** Lindy Crawford (City Manager) * **Public Speakers:** Angie Erit, Eric Johnson, Becky K, Bill Foussard, TJ Ricky, and Kristen Cranmer. *** [0:28] **[Silence/Background Noise]** [0:58] **[Silence/Background Noise]** [1:28] **[Silence/Background Noise]** [2:25] **Mayor:** All right, we're going to call the meeting to order. Will the clerk please note those in attendance? All will be noted. Will you please join me in the Pledge of Allegiance? I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. All right, let's jump into item 2A, minutes of the regular City Council meeting on August 14, 2024. Uh, entertain a motion to approve the minutes? I have a motion, a second. All those in favor say aye. (Group: Aye). Any opposed? Motion carries, minutes are approved. Item 2B, minutes of the City Council work session on August 20th, 2024. To entertain a motion to approve those minutes? [3:11] **Council Member Walsh:** So moved. [3:12] **Mayor:** I have a motion, a second. All those in favor say aye. (Group: Aye). Any opposed? [3:16] **Council Member Walsh:** I wasn't there. [3:18] **Mayor:** All right, one abstention. Motion—good, not—fair enough. All right, because you weren't there Mr. Walsh, they were seconds not minutes or hours, whoa, just kidding, burn. All right, so the motion carries and those minutes are approved with one noted abstention from Mr. Walsh. Item three, adoption of the agenda. Are there any corrections or amendments to the agenda? Seeing none, I'd entertain a motion to approve the agenda. I have a motion, a second. All those in favor say aye. (Group: Aye). Any opposed? Motion carries. We have an agenda. Item four, consent agenda. It's light, only one item. [3:58] **Mayor:** I would entertain a motion to approve the consent agenda. I have a motion, a second. All those in favor say aye. (Group: Aye). Any opposed? Motion carries, consent agenda is approved. All right, item five, visitors and presentations. We have a Community Development Department biannual report. Mr. Lindahl, whenever you're ready. [4:05] **Mr. Lindahl:** Mayor, members of the Council, thank you. Um, the item before you again is the Community Development biannual report. So twice a year, the Community Development Department reports on activity. Um, in our department, we break down that data into three different kind of divisions of the department, or parts of the department: building activity and building permit data, code enforcement data, and then zoning activity data. And... [4:43] **Mr. Lindahl:** ...there's information included in your report with that. Um, I would just note for you that right before the meeting, I did hand out an updated table for the code enforcement information. Um, while the analysis in the staff report is based on the correct information, that table that got into the packet was incomplete. So I just wanted to make sure you had a full data set, and I'll have that for you up on the screen here in a second. Um, but what I—when we do the biannual report at this point in the year—we report on activity between January and June and we compare it to the previous year to give you some context. Um, before we do that, what I wanted to do was to start with some of... [5:29] **Mr. Lindahl:** ...the data that we showed you for the annual report at the end of 2023, just to show you kind of the broader context that can kind of explain where we're going with this snapshot of data in just the first half of this year. So, um, this shows building department data, specifically building permits, from 2010 out to 2023. And so this is the exact table that you saw at the—for our 20—our end of the year 2023 report that was presented to the Council back in February. And so what you can see from this data is that overall there's a trend from 2010 up until 2022 where there's a steady increase... [6:15] **Mr. Lindahl:** ...in activity in the building inspection department. Um, there's some—and a general trend in 2023 that activity is decreasing. Um, and we’ll be able to see that here. And also total valuations of permits, we're seeing a substantial increase, you know, from 2009 on this chart up to 2023 and kind of plateauing for valuations. And then if you look at fees collected with that same building permit data, um, you see again a steady increase from 2009 all the way up to 2023 and then the beginning of kind of a decrease in activity. And what I'd highlight for you in this data again is the overall projection trend... [7:02] **Mr. Lindahl:** ...that we have been going up in pretty substantially for the last 14 or 15 years. Um, even though we're seeing a decrease in activity now, I would suggest that that's more of a return to normal rather than, you know, kind of a downward trend. Um, and in the last few years, the Barnum project, the Lochner project, the school district's projects throughout the community have represented it. Um, and quite honestly, a few storms that came through, even worse than the one last night, that caused a lot of roof repairs in 2022, which presented a lot of activity in our department that just wasn't typical. Okay. [7:48] **Mr. Lindahl:** So while you'll see decreases coming, I really think it's more a return to kind of the normal rather than, you know, a downward trend. So, um, I don't have a table for you specifically for building permit data because I wanted to show you the bigger picture, but in your report, you can see for building permit data, um, the total number of permits when comparing just the first half of 2024 with the first half of 2023 saw a decrease by 25%. Um, if you look at total valuations, those were down by 37%, and total permit fees were down by 34%. Similarly—and again, that's just comparing first half of '24 with first half of... [8:34] **Mr. Lindahl:** ...'23. Now, if you look at the data for code enforcement, for example—and again, this is the table that I just handed out to you—um, you'll see that generally, um, this table is organized, or this data is organized, in total numbers of cases and then broken down by either complaint activity or proactive code enforcement, and then also broken down by Ward. So what you see here overall for code enforcement is that, um, the total number of cases and complaint-based cases were down slightly, um, but proactive cases were up slightly. So really from '23 to '24 we're in very similar total numbers of cases, um, for the code enforcement... [9:20] **Mr. Lindahl:** ...position. And just to take a closer look to see in the first half of 2024, um, we saw a significant increase in—the biggest part of our pie here is weed kind of complaints. And I think that's directly related to the spring that we had that was very wet and everybody's grass was growing a lot. Um, if you look at then broken down by Ward, you'll see that the fewest number of cases was in Ward 4 at 15%. Um, Wards 1, 2, and 5 had nearly equal kind of complaint levels, um, but Ward 3 saw the highest levels at 25%. Now moving on to the zoning... [10:08] **Mr. Lindahl:** ...activity, you'll see um that there were slight decreases in total activities from '23 to 2024. Um, I'm sorry, I should explain this chart a little bit for you. You can see that the brown color is the first half of 2024, the yellow color is the second half of 2023, and then the totals for 2023 as a general comparison. And really we saw decreases in cases in this activity with the exception of the permitting review that happens with zoning permits or building permits. And so that's kind of related to what's happening in the building inspection data. [10:55] **Mr. Lindahl:** So again, while I'd say that's part of an over—you know, the overall trend is kind of down, it's really returning to what I think was a normal level of activity more typical of what we've seen historically in White Bear Lake. And so with that, I'd stand for questions. [11:06] **Mayor:** Thank you, Mr. Lindahl, for the report. I don't have any questions except to just say thank you for the detailed report. Council, do we have any questions for Mr. Lindahl? Council Member Walsh. [11:15] **Council Member Walsh:** Uh, thank you, Mr. Mayor. Just can you remind us, staffing-wise, um, have we added to the code enforcement staff and like where would it fall on that growth chart? It seems to me we have a position or a half a position and sort of when— [11:32] **Mr. Lindahl:** So the Community Development Department—Council Member Walsh, members of... [11:41] **Mr. Lindahl:** ...the Council, um, the Community Development Department has historically included a code enforcement position. Um, when I started in 2022, um, for about nine months of that time period or so in the kind of the middle part of second half of that year, the beginning part of '23, the code enforcement position was vacant as we did some staff rearranging. So in the time that I was here, really from almost immediately at the time that I started in the spring of 2022 to basically the beginning of '24, our department was short-staffed in... [12:27] **Mr. Lindahl:** ...some way. Um, either a building inspector, the code enforcement position, or the rental inspector, and there was also some movement internally to kind of fill those spots that kind of created that sequencing or chain of staffing. Um, so but we have had the code enforcement position now fully staffed for almost exactly one year. So that data, I think, represents a more consistent example of what the capacity of the department is. [13:00] **Council Member Walsh:** Okay, so I'm not remembering growth, I'm remembering filling open staff positions. Okay, thanks. [13:07] **Mr. Lindahl:** Yep. [13:08] **Mayor:** Council, any other questions? Council Member Edberg. [13:13] **Council Member Edberg:** Uh, thank you, Mayor. So Mr. Lindahl, uh, looking at the long-term trends that you were referencing, um, I... [13:15] **Council Member Edberg:** ...completely agree with your assessment on Lochner and Barnum, um, on storms. Um, what you didn't mention, and what I was curious in the data that you drew a regression line—a pretty much straight line—my sense, and I'm just curious to see where this goes, we didn't talk about any of the pandemic home improvement projects that were done. Well-documented, tons of it going on all over the place. Um, and so looking at that chart, '21, '22, '23, in terms of—anyway, I'm just curious to find out what norm are we going back to? Are we going back to a pre-pandemic norm, or are we going back to something else? Um, and so... [14:04] **Council Member Edberg:** ...just an observation and a curiosity. Do you have any perspectives on that? [14:08] **Mr. Lindahl:** So Mayor, members of the Council, I would say it's too early from the data that we have to tell exactly what level we're going back to. Um, but you certainly can see in, like, just the per sheer permit number level here that there's a dip in—you know, there's really a progression line really consistently going up, but you also see a slight—you see a dip in '19, '20, and '21 of permits before things kind of start to go back up again. So um, while I think there were certainly home improvement projects that happened throughout White Bear Lake, we see a little bit of a dip here in that pandemic time period just... [14:51] **Mr. Lindahl:** ...generally. [14:52] **Council Member Edberg:** Okay. We'll watch and see. [14:53] **Mayor:** Okay. Any final questions from the Council? All right, thank you, Mr. Lindahl. Item six, public hearing. We have nothing scheduled. Item seven, unfinished business. We have a second reading of an ordinance amending the zoning code as it relates to off-sale liquor. Mr. Lindahl, whenever you're ready for this one. [15:15] **Mr. Lindahl:** Mayor, members of the Council, again, as you mentioned, this is a second reading of an ordinance related to off-sale liquor uses in the B5 Central Business District. So the request is being made by Hardic Patel, um, and his proposal is necessary because he would like to relocate his liquor store from one... [15:38] **Mr. Lindahl:** ...spot along Third Street to another just across the street. Um, the amendment would be to the B5 Central Business District and allow off-sale liquor um as a permitted use, as staff is recommending. In the lead-up to this in the public comment regarding this application, we saw staff received two emails supporting the request. The Planning Commission held their required public hearing on the rezoning back at their July 29 meeting. That produced one resident in support of the application and another opposed to the request. The City Council held the first reading of this... [16:23] **Mr. Lindahl:** ...item, as you may remember, at your last meeting back on the 14th of August. The Planning Commission and staff are recommending approval, and specifically in this case, we're recommending approval as a permitted use. Um, there were three options that we did look at, that we did talk about a little bit more during the first reading. Um, we did settle on staff's recommendation, again also supported by the Planning Commission, as allowing liquor stores as a permitted use with certain conditions. Those include that the property would be located again in the B5 Central Business District, but it must be located along Highway 61, located along Third or Fourth Street, and a parcel subject to a maximum... [17:11] **Mr. Lindahl:** ...size, which leads to the site that the applicant is interested in. And so in this case, staff again is recommending approval as a permitted use, subject to the terms that we just outlined that's included in the ordinance included in your packet. After conducting a second reading of the ordinance, staff recommends adoption of that ordinance as presented. Um, should the Council approve or adopt the—excuse me, adopt the ordinance—the next step would be to consider a resolution to publish the ordinance by title and summary, and that resolution is also included in your packet. And with that, I'd stand for questions. [17:54] **Mayor:** Thank you, Mr. Lindahl. Questions on this, Council? Council Member Edberg. [18:00] **Council Member Edberg:** Thank you. So Mr. Lindahl, um, how long is this business—okay, we are being asked to make this at the request of a specific business. Um, how long has this business been in White Bear Lake, and how long has it been owned by its current ownership? [18:24] **Mr. Lindahl:** Uh, Mayor, members of the Council, um, it's my understanding that it's been in this particular location for at least two decades, but the owner is in the office and—could—excuse me, is in the audience and could provide us a detailed answer to that. [18:41] **Council Member Edberg:** Wow, okay. I'll make my point. The business in question was... [18:42] **Council Member Edberg:** ...grandfathered in when several—many years ago, and I believe it was prior to the current owner taking ownership. So we have by government action given a limited, but nonetheless not insignificant, monopoly to a single business. We've limited essentially to one liquor store in the downtown area. I don't think that's good economics and I don't think it's good government policy. Perhaps if we wanted to follow that language, there are friends of mine of Mediterranean descent who suggest that access to really good olive oil is close to an addiction, and therefore we might consider limiting like only one oil company in... [19:29] **Council Member Edberg:** ...downtown, or pick your favorite whatever enterprise—maybe only one beauty salon or maybe only dot, dot, dot. Now, I'm not opposed to this business relocating. I'm not opposed to giving them access to a permit. I'm opposed to granting and perpetuating a monopoly through government action. And that—that monopoly creates a preferential value to that property in that they are able to capture sales because they don't have competition from those who might be already in that area seeking to purchase, etc., etc. So I'm not in favor of a proposal that permits with conditions, especially with the narrow conditions that very clearly are... [20:14] **Council Member Edberg:** ...tailored to meet a particular business and a particular location. I'm fine if we permit it throughout the B5. I think that's fair game, that's open to competition. If we have other kinds of conditions besides the locational things, I'm fine with that too. But I'm not okay with specifying and grandfathering in and perpetuating a practice that gives advantage through government action. And I just think that's bad economics and bad policy. Do you have any response? [20:53] **Mr. Lindahl:** Uh, Mayor, members of the Council, I'm sorry, I don't have—I don't have a response, I guess, unless you have a question. [20:59] **Council Member Edberg:** No, well the question... [21:00] **Council Member Edberg:** ...is: okay, so the question might be, Mr. Lindahl, why would we seek to use our powers in this way? What is the advantage? What is the public good that's created by limiting access in the way that we are doing it? [21:18] **Mr. Lindahl:** Um, Mayor, members of the Council, um, I would say another way to look at the City's current zoning standards as we relate to off-sale liquor in downtown is that they are prohibited, and that that occurred some point when there was an existing liquor store. And so the policy decision... [21:47] **Mr. Lindahl:** ...presumably was made with the understanding that that particular use would be grandfathered in and allowed to continue until that business chose to no longer operate, which is perpetuated by this policy. Okay. Um, the standards to review and ordinance change that are outlined in your packet go into greater detail about the rationale about why staff recommended the policy that it did. And if you do look at those criteria, um, it does relate to the... [22:35] **Mr. Lindahl:** ...purpose and intent of the downtown district to allow commercial and retail activity. And that while we specifically look at off-sale liquor stores as a different kind of retail activity, it does generally fit into the comprehensive plan guidance for downtown as commercial and retail activity. Okay. Um, the purpose and intent of the downtown zoning district also suggests that the zoning should be designed to limit impacts of downtown uses on the surrounding neighborhood to downtown. And so under... [23:21] **Mr. Lindahl:** ...that idea, focusing these more transient-oriented users on Highway 61 away from the residential areas is consistent with that. So there are several rationales in here related to recommending this use with these criteria that staff believes goes beyond the perspective that you outlined. [23:44] **Council Member Walsh:** Council Member Walsh. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Well, Council Member Edberg, I'm tracking with you. I think philosophically, um, I can't argue—I can't offer an argument why we would let one... [24:08] **Council Member Walsh:** ...off-sale liquor in the downtown area, not more. Um, I guess my thought is that's a zoning question. We have this zoning workgroup that's working right now, and I guess my thought would be we grandfather this one in today because it's status quo except they move across the street, and then I'm willing to seriously consider this as a zoning question globally for the entire city. Because we're doing that—we're in the middle of that process, right? I'd say middle of that process—maybe even past the middle of that process—two-thirds of the way. Two-thirds of the way down with that process. So I guess that's kind of where I'm at. I think I'm with you philosophically, and I'm going to—I'm just going to preempt a possible hypocrisy here because in six months or so we're going to be talking about retail marijuana... [24:53] **Council Member Walsh:** ...shops, and I'm going to have a different review, and I'm okay with that. Uh, I'm okay with that. I just want to state—I'll state that now so nobody says, "Well, you wanted unlimited liquor stores in downtown." But yes, I'm going to treat them differently. Um, but I guess my thought would be let's wait and do the zoning when we're doing the zoning comprehensively. And I think I'll be with you philosophically on—like we discussed this two weeks ago—what is the rationale? What is the stated purpose for not having retail liquor stores downtown? Um, I'm not sure that's a compelling enough argument that's been made. So I'm kind of with you with you, but not today. And just to change the subject, I have another question. It's just there's one line in the memo about changing... [25:40] **Council Member Walsh:** ...the building facade to include the addition of glass windows. Really, you know, we're talking about the zoning question really. Um, I mean if they don't need to come to us for any other reason in terms of renovations or use or anything like that, I mean, like that's fine. Um, unless they want a variance or something, we might not get into that. But it seems like we should maybe know more about that. I mean, as I'm thinking about this, I mean, is the parking different? You know, just moving it from here to there. That building seems to me very small as I look at it, but maybe it's enough, maybe it's big enough to handle. Is there going to be an addition to the building? We just have the one line in here about the—you know, what's going to change in the building and the parking lot. [26:27] **Mr. Lindahl:** Mayor, members of the Council, um, the staff report really didn't go into the details of what the applicant may do to renovate the... [26:27] **Mr. Lindahl:** ...building because really, um, it's focused on the use and the zoning right now. And that's the next step that really can't proceed until this is either adopted or decided by the City. Okay. Now I know that the business owner has been making plans, talking with our building department staff and doing some renovations that could be done just generally in retail kinds of buildings to try and kind of prime his move if he can do that, understanding that nothing is for sure until the Council acts on this. Um, but really the information that was included in your staff report... [27:13] **Mr. Lindahl:** ...related to kind of exterior improvements was a response from the business owner to one of the concerns raised during the public hearing at the Planning Commission: that the building currently doesn't have the same aesthetic as the rest of the downtown. And the applicant then—or excuse me, the business owner—you know, made some comments during the public hearing that he intends to do some exterior improvements, but he just hasn't gotten to that step for the actual building permit process. Now with that, um, there's nothing in here that changes any of the zoning standards for exterior materials or parking or anything else in downtown. This is just related to the use, and so... [28:01] **Mr. Lindahl:** ...this site—if they would make any improvements to parking or exterior materials or any other parts of the building—they're subject to the same zoning standards for any other building in downtown. And that would be an administrative building permit, assuming that those all meet the standards of downtown. [28:17] **Council Member Walsh:** Okay, thanks, that's helpful. [28:18] **Council Member Hughes:** Council Member Hughes. Um, when you guys go through the zoning process, are you intending to make any changes as far as what constitutes a B5? My question is really because B5 right now is just on the other side of 61. But if you include kind of up to Cup and Cone and Ingredients and some of the other storefronts... [28:48] **Council Member Hughes:** ...along there, which in my head I include, it also includes a liquor store. So kind of to Kevin's point or to Council Member Edberg's point, there is competition downtown, it's just not B5 to B5. Um, but I hear you too. I'm not really interested in sitting here at this dais and creating business winners and losers. And so my question is: will we—does that change? Do the boundaries of what is downtown and how we look at downtown change as you go through the zoning process? [29:19] **Mr. Lindahl:** So Mayor, Council Member Hughes, rest of the Council, um, there's a long answer to that question as we've been working on the zoning update for about a year now. Um... [29:34] **Mr. Lindahl:** ...the shorter answer is there is a draft zoning map that is the working draft for the Community Advisory Committee at this point. It has different zoning classifications and names and it takes a little bit of a different approach. So there isn't a—there isn't an "apple for an apple" relationship to what's considered downtown now and what's considered—what may be considered downtown on the future map. Um, and that's partly because the zones become a little bit more detailed. Um, and the simplest answer to why they become more detailed is we're trying to protect the retail core and the synergy, um, and focusing those... [30:21] **Mr. Lindahl:** ...activities under a certain land use category or zoning category. And then what's really now the greater downtown area that has more office and could have some residential uses in it kind of has another zoning category. Okay. So what you can think of is downtown now really kind of gets divided—is proposed to be divided—into two different zones. Okay. So that's the quickest answer. Um, more specifically to your question: what includes what is downtown and related to the retail areas of it is proposed at this point to cross now 61 down Fourth Street a few blocks... [31:09] **Mr. Lindahl:** ...um, to kind of include Cup and Cone and the commercial activity that's at—or the commercial uses that are um at Bald Eagle and Fourth. And so, and really try to link that corridor with downtown as it continues on the other side of Fourth. That's the concept right now. Um, the Council will have a lot more chance to review and talk about that as we try to get you a final working draft to refine that. [31:26] **Council Member Edberg:** Council Member Edberg. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. So I want to acknowledge, um, Mr. Lindahl, you did make—you and staff did make the argument about the desire to locate certain businesses toward... [31:55] **Council Member Edberg:** ...61. I would note that all of that strikes me as a stretch. Had the current operator not been in a position to be forced to move and forced to relocate, I don't recall a single conversation about any requirements or shifts in requirements that move certain kinds of activities to Highway 61. We've never had that conversation. It was—it's in me—for me it's a clearly a response that tries to retain a business in downtown, which is good, but we're doing it using a structure and a—and an analysis that doesn't hold up in my way of thinking. So I acknowledge the argument was made, I did read it, I'm not buying it. But that's... [32:40] **Council Member Edberg:** ...okay. I would like to ask: so, um, Member Walsh rightly notes that we are in the middle of this zoning conversation. If we—regardless, perhaps, of what decision we make tonight—um, how would his suggestion that we deal with this via the zoning conversation—how does the ordinance mesh with zoning, and process for how we might implement the suggestion that he's making? What—what would that pathway look like? [33:14] **Mr. Lindahl:** Um, Mayor, members of the Council, so it—um, the new—to try and boil this down into a manageable response here right now but... [33:26] **Mr. Lindahl:** ...still inform your question. So the zoning ordinance as we're drafting it, um, really Council Members Walsh and Edberg will understand this more because they're participating in the process. But just for the whole Council's benefit right now: we are reviewing the zoning, the updated zoning, recommended zoning with the Community Advisory Committee in three sections, or what we're calling "modules." So Module One is what we've been talking about for the last two meetings, and this information is all on the City's website for the public who may want to look at this. Um, and Module One presents a draft zoning map. So it shows districts and names and where they're located throughout the city, and then it provides basic zoning standards and uses... [34:14] **Mr. Lindahl:** ...within those districts to accompany that map. Um, the first meeting we focused on residential areas which are substantially trying to stay the same, and then we looked at mixed-use areas that could come in as parts of the city from downtown. And so in each of the zones, well—in as part of Module One, there is a use table. And so there's a table that's about a page and a half that lists each of the zones that are proposed on the new map and the uses: residential, commercial, industrial manufacturing, public and institutional in categories, and proposes the locations of those uses... [35:02] **Mr. Lindahl:** ...each of those specific uses in specific zones. So there will be—while we've been talking at the kind of higher level at this point in with Module One with looking at zones and uses—the CAC and the community and eventually the Planning Commission and Council will have the opportunity to talk about what specific uses they would like in those draft zones. So you could talk about liquor stores, in what zones they want to go. You could talk about retail, in which zones you want them to go to. Or auto repair, in which zones you want them to go to. You could talk about any of the—any... [35:49] **Mr. Lindahl:** ...particular use in any particular zone. And while there's, I think, a more kind of a higher priority list on staff's, the group can talk about any one of those, or any of the zones or uses, excuse me. [36:06] **Council Member Edberg:** And so with that conversation incubated at the study and discussion levels, now matured through Planning Commission and up to the Council, um, would that zoning ordinance, once completed, overrule—how would we accommodate—would... okay, I—I'm making this up because... [36:34] **Council Member Edberg:** ...I—we haven't had the conversation. But if Member Walsh and I were to say as—and convince a number of members of the Advisory Committee that the zoning ordinance for downtown should allow multiple sites—um, we remove the grandfathering effect or we modify the conditions that we might adopt in zoning, do we have that authority? Is that a part of that process or is that not likely to be a useful and reasonable, productive conversation in that process? [37:11] **Mr. Lindahl:** Mayor, members of the Council, um, really we're doing a comprehensive review and update of the zoning code, so really anything's fair game at this point. Um, we're starting from a perspective of trying to ground... [37:20] **Mr. Lindahl:** ...the conversation in: okay, what—what's in our current code, what's working, what's maybe a challenge, and then looking at our comprehensive plan about what the future goals for the City are and how do we adjust the zoning ordinance to reflect the comprehensive plan. But I would—and so while we've tried to provide a context to have—because, you know, if we just opened everything up, I think that's a hard—that's a difficult conversation to have. So we've tried to provide some framework, and that's what the Development Framework document did last spring about what areas we were going to focus in on. But certainly, the committee is made up of Council members, Planning Commissioners, and other people that... [38:06] **Mr. Lindahl:** ...represent various development interests throughout the community. And we really wanted to have that diversity. The Mayor directed us to have that diversity so we could bring different perspectives. And I think at any point, any particular member could raise a concern or a change that they want to make, and that certainly could be related to any specific use, including liquor stores. [38:23] **Mayor:** Thank you. So let me share what my thinking and rationale is, and it's mainly for you, Council Member Edberg, because I think it's maybe helpful to know what my thinking was. Because philosophically, I'm with you on what seems like a very "one-off" almost kind of specialized carve-out for one specific issue that came up, and we don't want to pass... [38:52] **Mayor:** ...ordinances for those onesie-twosy things. So I get that in principle. Here's how I looked at this—and why I supported the permanent use with conditions. The timing of this is unfortunate because this would have been scooped up in the overall zoning overhaul, but we have a long-standing business or at least location, and the devil's in the details: they want to move right across the street. So my heartburn that I got—the same that you did—for the broader ramifications was assuaged by knowing that we're going to be able to address those exact issues in very short order, hopefully with the broader zoning code update, of which I'm completely open to. Um, do we want to just open up all of B5 to allow liquor... [39:38] **Mayor:** ...stores to be there so that we're not creating a monopoly? I think that's a fair point, and I'm open to that. The other thing that we haven't discussed in real detail here is we're still working through what cannabis is going to look like, and the fact that cannabis is dovetailing off of liquor sales and where liquor licenses are held. And that's the broader issue. So to my point is, if you said, "Well if we're going to open up the ordinance, why don't we just expand it to all of B5 and allow all liquor stores to go in there and create a free market environment down there?" I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to that, but for that can have unintended consequences when it comes to legislating cannabis and how that's going to work, how we want to get our arms around where we want cannabis to be, because they are two... [40:23] **Mayor:** ...very different things. So that's why I support this, because it doesn't trouble me knowing that we're going to—it's a very, very minor change moving across the street, something that has historically been there, and we're going to scoop up the broader issue very, very soon. So I just looked at it more practically, um, in terms of what is today versus more of the philosophical thought, which I think is a good point. I'm confident that you'll raise that again as we have discussions about the broader zoning code because we're—we're opening up to a blank sheet of paper and really starting over, and this is going to get scooped up. And my understanding was, as Mr. Lindahl just addressed, if we don't like what this creates, we're going to fix that and clean it up. And the only thing that we're stuck with at that point is, yes... [41:09] **Mayor:** ...that liquor store is going to be able to stay there. But that doesn't mean more can't pop up or we can't create that competitive environment that I think that you're looking for. So I don't know if that helps get you home, but that's at least where my thinking is. So any other thoughts or comments on this? [41:14] **Council Member Walsh:** I'll move approval of the resolution. [41:16] **Mayor:** All right, I have a motion. Uh, we have the ordinance first, so is that a motion for the ordinance? I do. I have a second on the motion to approve the ordinance? [41:20] **Council Member:** Second. [41:21] **Mayor:** I have a motion, second. Any further discussion on this? Seeing none, all those in favor say aye. (Group: Aye). Any opposed? [41:31] **Council Member Edberg:** Aye. [41:32] **Mayor:** All right, motion carries by vote of 4 to 1. My ears are not deceiving me. Um, and that... [41:56] **Mayor:** ...ordinance is approved. We have an accompanying resolution approving publication of the ordinance. I'd entertain a motion to approve the resolution. [41:58] **Council Member:** Moved. [42:00] **Council Member:** Second. [42:01] **Mayor:** I have a motion, a second. Any further discussion on the resolution? Seeing none, all those in favor say aye. (Group: Aye). Any opposed? That motion carries, the resolution is approved. All right, item eight, new business. Off-sale liquor, tobacco, and edible cannabinoid products business license for United WBL, LLC. Um, this is more or less a housekeeping matter based on what we just passed—the liquor license has to move across the street. But Ms. Longenick, if you have anything you'd like to add to that, um, that's what's—that's the license that's before us. [42:37] **Ms. Longenick:** That is correct, Mayor and members of the Council. This would typically be under the consent agenda. There's nothing particularly special about this item other than it was contingent on the zoning text amendment which you just approved. [42:50] **Mayor:** Very good. [42:51] **Council Member:** Move approval. [42:52] **Council Member:** Second. [42:53] **Mayor:** I have a motion, a second. Any further discussion on that? Seeing none, all those in favor say aye. (Group: Aye). Any opposed? Motion carries, um, the license is approved. All right, item nine under discussion: On-sale liquor sales extension. Miss Crawford. [43:18] **Miss Crawford:** Mayor, members of the Council, chapters 1001 and 1002 of the City's ordinances for regulating the sale of alcohol—these ordinances are not as descriptive as some of our comparable city ordinances, and some provisions actually currently do not align with Minnesota State Statutes. Therefore, the City Council, staff, and the City Attorney have been discussing potentially amending the liquor ordinance at work sessions last year and earlier this year. However, an ordinance—just to be clear, to clarify for anybody here—an ordinance is not being brought forward for formal consideration at a meeting tonight. At a work session on July 23rd, 2024, Council and staff discussed the possibility of no longer allowing liquor sales after 1:00 a.m. due to concerns of public safety. So while there's a strong desire to improve... [44:14] **Miss Crawford:** ...public safety, obviously there would be an impact to four business owners or businesses that have active permits to sell intoxicating liquor until 2:00 a.m. in White Bear Lake. Therefore, the Mayor and the City Council requested direct feedback from liquor license establishment owners prior to considering any amendment to the ordinance. So staff was directed, and we did send a letter to all of our liquor license establishment owners inviting them to the City Council meeting tonight to provide feedback to the City Council regarding that matter. Um, and we did also invite them to meet with City staff if they wanted to discuss the matter. City staff did meet with two of... [45:03] **Miss Crawford:** ...the four business owners. One of the business owners was not able to be here tonight, so he did send an email with his thoughts, and that was distributed to the City Council today as well. Um, but I believe we do have three business owners here in the audience should you wish to hear from them, Mayor. Thank you. [45:25] **Mayor:** Thank you, Miss Crawford. So I want to kind of set the stage a little further, and Miss Crawford did a good job kind of giving a little bit of the history, because I think there's been some misconception as to kind of where we're at. So I consider us still very much in the fact-gathering phase. There's no action item before us tonight, there's no proposed ordinance that's before us tonight, and I think that's—that's maybe been miscommunicated by various outlets. [45:50] **Mayor:** That's why we don't have a formal public hearing tonight, because we have public hearings when we're looking to do first and second readings of ordinances and we're further along in the process. We're not there. Um, I also want to say that staff—and I think members of the Council did a good job making themselves available early on because we realized how sensitive an issue this is for—while it's only four, it's still a sensitive issue for at least four businesses in the community. So where we're at tonight is presenting those relevant stakeholders with an opportunity to be heard, to help inform us before we even bring an ordinance. So that this is your chance to say: good, bad, or otherwise, why bars should continue to be open until two, or conversely, um, it's your right to say we think they should... [46:35] **Mayor:** ...be closed at one. Um, but right now it's solely open to on-sale liquor license holders because that's—you're the most relevant stakeholders. So I want to underscore that because I—I think I speak for the whole Council and they can correct me later if they disagree—everyone has looked at this as a very sensitive issue and we're trying to weigh very, very real concerns from law enforcement, which I think everybody on the dais takes seriously, and also wanting to facilitate and allow small businesses to operate with as much autonomy as possible. So those are the two things that we're melding together and why we are very much slow-walking this and trying to gather as much information as we can. So with that, anyone that would like to speak to this issue that is a liquor... [47:21] **Mayor:** ...license holder um can do so now. And there's no particular order, you can step up to the podium. Please give me your name, address, and the business that you are speaking on behalf of. That would be great, thank you. [47:32] **Angie Erit:** Hi, I'm Angie Erit. Hi Mr. Mayor, City Council members, White Bear Lake citizens. I'm Angie Erit. Uh, I work at the White Bear Bar. Um, in regards to the 1:00 a.m. rollback, I'm here to kind of give you my viewpoint as someone who works these hours and can be directly impacted by these decisions. I've been employed at the White Bear Bar for 13 years and in that time I created relationships with employees and owners from other bars to communicate and help trespass any patrons who have caused problems in our establishments to... [48:07] **Angie Erit:** ...help drive down issues in our community as a whole. We try to be proactive by engaging police when we feel the situation may escalate, so we don't end up being reactive if the situation does happen. For the safety of our customers and staff, we have security cameras, take annual liquor awareness training, and despite these precautions in place, sometimes issues can still arise, as they can happen anywhere. Often, reducing these hours would not only impact the livelihood of many White Bear Lake service industry employees, it would also create unknown losses for White Bear Lake Hockey Charitable Gambling and any other charities that are involved with any other establishments. Punishing us all for actions of a few seems shortsighted and unjust. Thank you for your time, guys. [48:57] **Mayor:** Thank you. Would anyone else like to speak to this? Go ahead. [49:16] **Eric Johnson:** Right, hi everyone. Uh, just real quick, let me get my notes so I don't forget anything. Um, I'm not one of the bar owners, um, but I am Eric Johnson and I'm the president of the White Bear Lake Youth Hockey Association. So I just wanted to talk through how this kind of impacts us. So we partner with two of the bars that are in question um that stay open until two. Um, that would be White Bear Bar and Docs Landing. Um, just for some context: we have 850 kids that skate in our youth hockey association, three of them are mine. Um, but every year for the last few years as I've been treasurer and now president, um, we take gambling funds that are generated from... [50:02] **Eric Johnson:** ...these businesses, and this year um every skater gets 20% off um from their registration fees. Hockey is really expensive. So um, if you look at that, the majority of our skaters get $350 off every year for this. So it's roughly somewhere between $250,000 or a little bit more that we put right from the charitable gambling that's raised. We have five locations in White Bear and Vadnais Heights, but the two in question are again White Bear Bar and Docs Landing. Um, when we look at that, we don't just give that money to the skaters, we also do what's called the Rob Sun fund. So if there are any families that um has a child that wants to skate in White Bear and they're facing financial... [50:47] **Eric Johnson:** ...difficulties or their family's going through a health um issue—could be cancer or something else—um, we use funds from charitable gambling to pay and offset all their hockey fees. Something else I just want to say is I don't have exact numbers, but we know when we look at those locations that do charitable gambling, it's the weekends and towards the end of the night when most people are playing charitable gambling. And I know that we have some locations that are on a border where if we impact let's say Docs Landing—and I don't want to speak for Doc—but we know just south of there there are locations that stay until two. So people just won't go there and do charitable gambling if they can go just a block south and they stay open until two, and they'll do their... [51:32] **Eric Johnson:** ...charitable gambling there because that's kind of how it goes. And just my two cents on chiming in why I think it's important that it just doesn't affect um their—which is really important, right, their staff and all that—but it's also—it impacts the kids that skate in our association. So any questions for me? [51:48] **Mayor:** I just have one brief question. Yeah. And you said you don't have all the facts, but my question is: do you really think that the bulk of what's driving the charitable gambling is happening after 1:00 a.m.? I mean, that's—that's the critical linchpin. First of all, thank you for all the efforts that you do and I think it's great work that you're doing, and I don't want to—I don't want to stifle that in any way. But what I heard... [52:18] **Eric Johnson:** ...was, well, but four bars staying open until 2:00, we'd lose a huge share of revenue. And maybe that's true. That's why I'm asking: do you have any kind of statistical analysis to kind of support that? [52:30] **Eric Johnson:** We're trying to pull that, but we—you know, when people are selling, it's kind of by box and we can't count by the hour because sure, I don't know. But um, I think what—what my point was, and just talking to the staff that do that kind of thing, is people won't come at all. Really. It's not that they—and I don't want to speak out of turn here, so help me if I'm saying this wrong—but like if I was for instance out in town with my wife and our friends and buddies and we're going to go somewhere and play pull tabs and all that, if we knew that someone's going to close at one... [53:05] **Eric Johnson:** ...and we're out for a good night, finally got a babysitter, we probably wouldn't go there. We'd go to somewhere else that we know was going to stay until two, right? We wouldn't stay at this location until one and then leave and go somewhere else for the last hour. Probably just wouldn't go there in the first place and stay where we could play later. [53:23] **Mayor:** Sure, just a thought. [53:25] **Eric Johnson:** No, thank you. [53:26] **Mayor:** Council, any questions? Okay. [53:30] **Eric Johnson:** All right, great. Thank you. [53:32] **Mayor:** Yeah, thank you. I appreciate it. All right, anyone else want to speak to this? [53:45] **Becky K:** Hi Mayor, members of the Council. I'm Becky K, I'm one of the owners of Little Village Pub. Billy wanted to be here today but he wrote me a letter to read out loud. Um, basically I did talk to—and beforehand we didn't want to bore you with you know telling you all the exact same things she said, um, but he kind of hit on one of the topics we were concerned about. Um, basically if somebody gets off work at 11 o'clock they want to go out and have a bite to eat, a couple drinks. Are they going to go to the bar that closes at one or just go directly to the bar that closes at two? So we're not only just—we're not just concerned about that 1:00 a.m. to 2:00 a.m. hour. It's going to hurt our 11 to 12, our 12... [54:25] **Becky K:** ...to 1, and our 1 to 2 hour. So for a small business, that's quite a big impact. Um, also I just wanted to say that um we've had no issues so far. I mean, we're newish, been a year and a half. We've got a real good clientele. Um, I think we've only had a few police calls and most of them are because somebody didn't shut the door tight enough and the alarm went off. Um, we do know that you know we want everybody to be safe. We plan to keep it that way. Um, if anything ever were to arise, we would take it upon ourselves to address it and close early if need be for the sake of the customers, the staff, and the community. We wouldn't want any problems arising um at any time. So if that—if that crowd started kind of... [55:11] **Becky K:** ...venturing towards us, we would—we would see it coming and we would put a stop to it ourselves. But like I said, it—it really affects more than just the one to two hour. It's going to affect pretty much anything after 11 um because people just choosing are going to choose like you said: go a block south, go down the road, go to the place where they don't have to get an Uber from one to the other at one from 1 to 2. They're just going to go there to begin with. So um, I also just wanted to—to note: uh, I know you guys were discussing the cannabis sale. I know we have already decided, even if it does become available, my brother and I, we're never going to do it. We don't want any part of it. It's a whole new mess and insurance and liability and... [55:57] **Becky K:** ...so just you know where we stand on that, I'll let you know ahead of time. But um, the one other thing is also it's we're—we have valuable staff. We have great employees that we trust. Um, they—I'm afraid if they—their money—their pocketbook gets hurt in all of this as well, they might choose to go somewhere that is open until two and then we're out looking for new staff that we can trust as well. So thank you for your time. [56:32] **Mayor:** Thank you. [56:34] **Bill Foussard:** How's it going? Bill Foussard from White Bear Country Inn and Rudy's Redeye Grill. Mayor, staff, councilmen. I'm really concerned in our operation, stuff like that on weekends is we do a lot of weddings. And the weddings come back at 12:00. We manage the people in Rudy’s and the rooftop. If you close at 1:00, the same thing—they come back, go right to their room, start partying and stuff like that. That wrecks all the other guests. I mean you know, we can control the noise and the people in the bar. It's so much easier than in the room. So I'm really concerned having that because you have complaints, people noise and stuff, we have to refund the money. You know, we—you know, we want people happy. People come to... [57:18] **Bill Foussard:** ...some people come to sleep, some people come for weddings and celebration and get-togethers and stuff like that. If there's a problem with a bar, we try to do everything right. We—we go by what you ask for and stuff like that. And we make mistakes, so I'm not saying everyone's—we're perfect and stuff like that, but we try and I think a lot of bars do. If there's a bar that's having a challenge, get on them, target them and stuff like that. But taking for people that are really trying—we employ 180 people in our operation for rooms and food and stuff like that. It's a lot of people. Those sales make—sales make a lot that we can staff the hotel but also just taking care of the guests that are coming out here to shop and dine, go to a wedding, do—go to events and things like that. It's all different things... [58:05] **Bill Foussard:** ...what attracts people here to our great town. So I am really concerned just how we handle our guests in the rooms. If they go to the rooms, we can't—we can control them in the bar. If someone's over-served or looking that way, we cut them off and I know staff has been in there and seen it. We've got a—we have bartenders been there with us 20 years. We're not messing around. You know, we just want people happy, we want being you know managed and stuff like that. And I just have to share. Thank you so much. [58:45] **Mayor:** Thank you, any questions for Bill? Thanks so much. Have a great—we appreciate all you're doing. [58:48] **TJ Ricky:** City Council, Mayor. I'm TJ Ricky, White Bear Bar. Um, the things everybody else was saying, they were spot on. Those are all very important things. Some things I would like to bring light of is public safety is so very important to us and always has been. I—I work hard with my staff to make sure we were always running a clean, clean and safe show. Um, over the years the way things are done in the bar business has changed a lot. Um, some years ago when I started doing this, we never called the police for anything. We—we just took care of our issues, and that's the way it pretty much... [59:36] **TJ Ricky:** ...worked in that business. And over the years the police department, which I very much appreciate, and the City Council has asked us to, "We want you to call for things, call for things," uh, whether it be something very small or you have an issue that needs to be taken care of right away. So we have changed the way we do this, and sometimes some of these calls are very—it can be as simple as: my employee is going to leave at the end of the night, something looks a little strange outside, and they just want a policeman to do a drive-through. Um, I feel as if these police calls are... [1:00:25] **TJ Ricky:** ...somewhat of a double-edged sword on me now because they're kind of being used against me, too. Um, we always want the bar to run smoother. Um, when an issue happens, we always try to learn from it, adjust on it, and make things better, and hopefully these issues never happen again. Um, I think that's all I have. Do we have any questions? [1:00:54] **Mayor:** Thank you. Appreciate it. Would anyone else would like to speak to this, please? [1:01:10] **Kristen Cranmer:** Mayor, members of Council, Kristen Cranmer. Um, I manage Kellerman’s Event Center as well as The Alchemist, and DBA for Deuces Saloon on Fourth Street. Um, we aren't affected by the 2:00 a.m. because we only have a 1:00 a.m. So why am I here? I'm here to support all of them. Um, we have weddings—not as many as we used to—but one of the questions I get asked very often is, "Where do we go after here when we leave?" We send them out the door at 12:00 or 12:30, maybe even 1:00 a.m. [1:01:41] **Kristen Cranmer:** You know, a wedding and an event is a super fun time for people to celebrate, bring family and friends from all over. And in my position and also as a huge supporter of downtown White Bear, it's so fun to be able to say, "Hey, you've got this, and you've got this, and you've got this place. Enjoy yourselves, have a good time, be safe." All of those things. So I—I just want to come in support of the fact that these—these aren't just for the everyday person who hangs out at the bar, this is also for others that come to our community um that I send to these bars. I send them to eat, I send them to Keys, I send them to shopping, all of those things that happen here for the good of... [1:02:26] **Kristen Cranmer:** ...those 150 to 300 people coming into our town. Thank you. [1:02:47] **Mayor:** Any questions? Thank you so much. Thank you. Any other—anyone else want to speak to this? I'm resisting the temptation to say "last call," but uh, but I said it anyway, so there we go. Um, if anyone else—okay, we're good. All right, we're going to—we're going to bring this back to the Council. Um, you know, the point of this was to hear from you. Like I said, we've still got a lot of deliberating to do, so I don't want to put Council on the spot. Anyone's welcome to share some of their early thoughts. I'll—I'll kick things off and I'll preface it by saying I'm still very much undecided except... [1:03:12] **Mayor:** ...to say when we started these original conversations, my thought then as it is today is we don't need—we need to have a really compelling reason to deviate from the status quo. Meaning, if we're going to roll things back to 1:00 a.m., we need to—we need to have it down pretty cold that this is a serious issue that we need to address and that doing so is going to make a huge step towards improving public safety. I'm not as convinced as I once was, that's why I'm very glad that you all came to speak with us. And we've gone back and forth with police about what the statistics are and we're still internally kind of grappling—grappling with those to try and break down, okay, is it—is it a particular place, is it a 1:00 a.m. to 2:00 a.m. issue? [1:03:58] **Mayor:** Um, so those are—that's what's rattling around in my head. But again, thank you all for coming here and testifying. I know it's—it's difficult to do. Um, and at least from my chair, I get that this is critical to your business. So just know that from my standpoint, it stems from public safety, which I place above everything else. And it's a slippery slope to say, well we want to make sure that we walk around and bubble wrap that to the—to the expense of having any progress in the community. So—so I—I trust the Council's good discretion to kind of weigh those two and I have no doubt that we will. So this is sort of a "to be continued" issue and I'll just say that there will be other opportunities to—to speak to this issue. If the Council decides to move forward, one way or another a new liquor ordinance is going to go forward for reasons that are... [1:04:44] **Mayor:** ...completely independent of—of the 1:00 a.m. 2:00 a.m. analysis. It's just it's housekeeping issue on—on some level. So we're going to bring it back and—and discuss further. But that's where I'm—that's where I stand today. Would anyone else like to speak this? Council Member Walsh. [1:05:07] **Council Member Walsh:** Well, thank you Mr. Mayor, and really thank you for the process. I think it's a great process. We're a small enough town that before we make a change like this, we can actually speak directly or listen to the people impacted by it. So why not do that? So I really appreciate without the pressure of a—of an agenda item on the—just to hear, "Okay, if we do this, what's it going to mean?" And I thought we got really good uh feedback tonight. So I really appreciate the feedback. Um, I feel um smarter, a smarter—more—more informed. Probably... [1:05:30] **Council Member Walsh:** ...probably not smarter, I feel more informed on this issue. We'll just limit it to that. Okay, thank you. [1:05:39] **Mayor:** All right, anyone else uh want to share some thoughts? All right, well I'll—I'll close by just saying my email, my phone number is on the website, so are the Council members. It's an ongoing conversation, so if you forgot something or want to follow up, please don't hesitate to follow up with me and others on—on the Council as we continue to have this conversation um amongst ourselves and—and as we go forward. So thank you all again for being here. Miss Crawford. [1:06:05] **Miss Crawford:** Thank you, Mayor. I just want to add that any ordinance requires a public hearing as well. So there will be another opportunity um whether this is in there or not, uh, you know anyway, so... [1:06:17] **Miss Crawford:** ...there's a first reading and that's when we have a public hearing on any ordinance, and then there's a second reading before the Council adopts it. So you have more opportunity um when an ordinance is brought forward, whether or not 1:00 a.m. is in there or not, I don't know at this point. But um, you have another opportunity as well. [1:06:33] **Mayor:** Great, all right. Thank you again. All right, item 10, communication from the City Manager. Miss Crawford, whenever you're ready. [1:06:40] **Miss Crawford:** Thank you. Um, Mayor, members of the Council, um, Senator uh Heather Gustafson was selected as a League of Minnesota Cities uh 2024 Legislator of Distinction. Um, she received that uh last year as well, so um, want to congratulate her. Um, and I think she'll be visiting uh a Council meeting in the near future, I... [1:07:02] **Miss Crawford:** ...believe at her request. So congratulations to Senator Gustafson. Um, the North Campus um community—oh, can you please go back? The North Campus community open house is this Thursday, August 29th, from 3:00 to 6:00 p.m. Um, obviously at the North Campus um just prior to the football game, the first football game of the season. Um, I will be speaking um to the chamber morning networking group on Tuesday, September 3rd, at Keys Cafe at 7:30 in the morning. And then we have a ribbon cutting um for the Women's Collective on Thursday, September 5th, from 3:00 to 7:00 p.m. [1:07:43] **Miss Crawford:** Next, and then um of course we had our big public safety um open house and ribbon cutting uh last week. So there's just a few photos that we—that we captured. There are many more um floating out there on social media, or they will be soon. And um, uh the cable commission did a really nice video that they just put on their um social media today. So just thank you for everybody uh for coming out. And um, good remarks from Mayor and Chief um Peterson and Chief Hager. And I think we had probably 70, 80 people. All the cookies were gone, and there were 300 cookies. But Council Walsh had two, so... um, no, it's a... [1:08:28] **Miss Crawford:** ...it's a beautiful facility, and again, staff really appreciates your support. So that's all I have tonight. [1:08:34] **Mayor:** Miss Crawford, and I'll just take this opportunity to compliment police and fire personnel that actually worked the—the open house. They did a great job and I received compliments from members of the community that everyone was well-informed and most importantly, really, really excited about the new facility. So good job to police and fire. All right, I would entertain a motion to adjourn. [1:09:05] **Council Member:** So moved. [1:09:06] **Mayor:** Is there a second? [1:09:07] **Council Member:** Second. [1:09:08] **Mayor:** All those in favor say aye. (Group: Aye). We're... [1:09:10] **Mayor:** Adjourned. Yeah, if you want to. I just announced it, I guess—just kidding, just kidding. No, I said you might learn a thing or two. I think I RSVP'd to them that I was going, just so you know you are—yeah, I will go. I just—I don't know.