CITY OF TAMPA. CITY OF TAMPA. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: GOOD MORNING EVERYONE. I WOULD LIKE TO CALL THIS TAMPA CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP TO ORDER. AT THIS TIME, IF WE COULD JUST PLEASE STAND FOR A MOMENT OF SILENCE AND REMAIN STANDING FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE. [MOMENT OF SILENCE] THANK YOU VERY MUCH. [PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE] ALL RIGHT. LET'S HAVE ROLL CALL. >>BILL CARLSON: HERE. >> HURTAK? >>ALAN CLENDENIN: HERE. >>GWEN HENDERSON: PRESENT. >>LUIS VIERA: HERE. >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: HERE. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: HERE. >>THE CLERK: WE HAVE A PHYSICAL QUORUM. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: I HAVE A MEMO RECEIVED FROM COUNCIL MEMBER HURTAK THAT SHE WILL BE ABSENT FROM TODAY'S WORKSHOP AND THIS EVENING'S MEETING. I'LL BRING THAT UP LATER AS WELL AT THE 5:00 MEETING. AT THIS TIME, LET'S GO THROUGH THE AGENDA. WE HAVE QUITE A FEW ITEMS. IT'S LIKELY THAT WE WON'T NEED TO BREAK FOR LUNCH, MEANING THAT WE'LL GO THROUGH THIS WHOLE AGENDA AND SHOULD BE FINISHED. WE'LL SEE. WE HAVE A COUPLE OF ITEMS HERE. SO ITEM NUMBER 3, THERE IS A WRITTEN REPORT. I DON'T KNOW IF COUNCIL WISHES TO DISCUSS THAT FURTHER. >>BILL CARLSON: ITEMS 3, 4, AND 5 ARE SIMILAR. AND THERE IS A DRAFT ORDINANCE. MY SUGGESTION IS WE DISCUSS ALL THREE BRIEFLY AND THEN TAKE PUBLIC INPUT AND UNLESS SOMEBODY HAS EDITS TO THE DRAFT ORDINANCE, THEN WE JUST SCHEDULE THE FIRST READING. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: ALL RIGHT. WE'LL KEEP 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. ITEM NUMBER 6, THERE IS A REQUEST FROM YOU, COUNCILMAN CARLSON, TO CONTINUE THIS ITEM TO JANUARY 30th, IS THAT CORRECT? >>BILL CARLSON: YES, SO MOVED. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: MOTION FROM COUNCIL MEMBER CARLSON. SECOND FROM COUNCIL MEMBER MIRANDA. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. ANY OPPOSED? THEN WE HAVE ANOTHER REQUEST FROM COUNCILMAN CARLSON ON ITEM 7 TO CONTINUE THE ITEM TO AUGUST 28 2025. >>BILL CARLSON: YES. FEBRUARY 22 -- SORRY, YEAH, AUGUST -- AUGUST 28, 2025. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: WE HAVE A MOTION FROM COUNCIL MEMBER CARLSON FOR NUMBER 7 TO CONTINUE. SECOND FROM COUNCIL MEMBER MIRANDA. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. ANY OPPOSED? AND THEN WE HAVE A MEMO FROM MR. BHIDE REQUESTING THAT ITEM NUMBER 8 BE CONTINUED TO JANUARY 30th 2025. WE HAVE A MOTION FROM COUNCIL MEMBER CLENDENIN. SECOND FROM COUNCIL MEMBER MIRANDA. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. CAN I GET A MOTION TO APPROVE THE AGENDA? MOTION FROM COUNCIL MEMBER MIRANDA. SECOND FROM COUNCIL MEMBER CLENDENIN. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. ANY OPPOSED? ALL RIGHT. ITEM NUMBER 1, COUNCIL MEMBER CARLSON, YOU MADE THIS MOTION. DO YOU WANT TO START OFF THE DISCUSSION? DO WE HAVE SOMEBODY FROM STAFF HERE? >>BILL CARLSON: WE DIDN'T HAVE A STAFF REPORT OR A DRAFT ANYTHING. I COULD TALK ABOUT IT A COUPLE OF MINUTES AND SEE WHAT YOU ALL THINK. REMEMBER, WE HAD ASKED THE QUESTION ABOUT CREATING AN ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT AND WE DISCUSSED IT TWO OR THREE TIMES. AS STAFF SAID, THERE IS NO DESIGNATION OF AN ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT. YBOR AND SOUTH HOWARD ARE NOT DESIGNATED AS AN ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT. IT JUST HAPPENS THAT THERE IS A HIGH CONCENTRATION OF ALCOHOL LICENSES. AND IN THE CASE OF YBOR, THERE WERE SOME FOLKS AND I THINK THE CITY AT THE TIME WAS TRYING TO MAKE IT MORE OF AN ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT, EVEN THOUGH IT IS NOT OFFICIALLY DESIGNATED. HOWARD AVENUE, IN THE LATE '90s IT CONVERTED FROM BEING JUST A RETAIL AREA TO A RESTAURANT DISTRICT, AND THEN THE ALCOHOL LICENSE SUDDENLY FOR THE RESTAURANTS WERE FLIPPED TO BECOME BARS. AND THERE MUST HAVE BEEN SOME WAIVERS AT THE TIME OF THE SETBACK RULES, BUT THE NEIGHBORHOOD NEVER -- THE NEIGHBORHOODS AROUND HOWARD AVENUE NEVER AGREED FOR THAT TO BE AN ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT. THEY WERE OKAY WITH THE RESTAURANTS BUT NEVER OKAY WITH IT BEING AN ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT. AND IT BRINGS NOISE AND TRASH AND CRIME AND ALL KINDS OF STUFF WITH IT. SO THE THING IS, IF WE DON'T CREATE -- I'M OKAY IF WE CREATE A DESIGNATION CALLED AN ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT, ALTHOUGH IT SOUNDS LIKE FROM WHAT STAFF SAID NOBODY IN THE CITY WANTS ONE IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD, BUT WHAT'S HAPPENING IN AREAS LIKE FLORIDA AVENUE AND NEBRASKA, WE ARE ONE AT A TIME APPROVING DISTANCE WAIVERS. SO WHAT THAT IS DOING IS IT'S AD HOC ALLOWING AN ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT TO DEVELOP. AND SO THE QUESTION IS, IS THERE SOME WAY THAT WE CAN, ESPECIALLY IN THE MIDDLE OF NEIGHBORHOODS, STICK STRICTLY TO THE DISTANCE RULES? AND THEN ARE THERE SOME AREAS WHERE WE MAY WANT TO WAIVE THE DISTANCE RULES OR REDUCE THEM? IT MAY NOT BE OFFICIALLY CALLING SOMETHING AN ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT, BUT IF WE JUST ONE BY ONE -- I THINK WE APPROVE MOST OF THE WAIVERS FOR DISTANCE, IF WE APPROVE THEM ONE BY ONE, THEN AN AREA WILL BECOME AN ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT WHETHER ANYBODY PLANNED IT OR NOT. AND I DON'T THINK IT'S FAIR TO NEIGHBORS OR ADJACENT PROPERTY OWNERS, BUT THERE MAY BE AREAS WHERE WE COULD CREATE AN ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT AND BY RIGHT TAKE AWAY THE DISTANCE REQUIREMENT SO THAT PEOPLE WOULDN'T HAVE TO SPEND A LOT OF MONEY AND TIME COMING BEFORE US. I'LL LEAVE IT AT THAT. I WANTED TO HEAR YOUR OPINIONS. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: COUNCIL MEMBER MIRANDA, YOU HAVE YOUR MICROPHONE ON. >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: THANK YOU. SOME OF THOSE THINGS I UNDERSTAND. SOME I'M NOT QUESTIONING THEM AT ALL, BUT IN THE RESTAURANT BUSINESS AND THESE LICENSES, NO MATTER WHAT DISTRICT OR WHAT AREA YOU'RE IN, YOU HAVE AN R DISTRICT. AT THAT TIME IN THE '90s, 51/49 PERCENT. SELL 51% OF YOUR GOODS AND 49% COULD NOT BE MORE ALCOHOL THAN THE GOODS YOU SOLD. I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF THAT IS IN EFFECT NOW. HAVEN'T SEEN ONE COME BY 51/49 SINCE THEN. THEY WOULD CHECK THESE THINGS EVERY MONTH OR EVERY TWO MONTHS, WHATEVER IT WAS. THEY WOULD BRING IN THE PEOPLE THAT THEY HAD TO REPORT TO THE CITY. THOSE THAT DID NOT REPORT TO THE CITY OR THOSE THAT REPORTED MORE THAN 49% WOULD HAVE TO COME HERE AND STATE THEIR CASE AS TO WHAT HAPPENED. THEN FINED OR MAYBE QUESTIONED A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN THAT. THAT DID HAPPEN IN THE '90s. THEN YOU HAD THE THINGS WHERE YOU SAY, WELL, I HAVE A LOT THAT I JUST LEASED BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO HAVE SO MUCH PARKING SPACE, SO FORTH AND SO ON AND RESTAURANT. I RENTED A LOT TWO BLOCKS DOWN. WELL, THAT WASN'T WORTH WHAT THE PAPER IS WRITTEN ON. I'M NOT QUESTIONING MR. CARLSON AT ALL. THE FACTS ARE THOSE THINGS DID HAPPEN. GUESS WHAT, THE PARKING BECOMES A PROBLEM. THAT'S WHY YOU SEE THE STANDS I TAKE -- MOST OF US, ALL OF US ONCE IN A WHILE SAY YOU CAN'T BUILD A BUILDING IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE PARKING. THAT'S WHY YOU CHECK THE VOTES, IF YOU DON'T HAVE A RATIO TO THE AMOUNT OF SPACE THAT YOU NEED, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A HARD TIME PASSING. THAT'S HOW IT IS. I'M NOT QUESTIONING WHAT MR. CARLSON SAID AT ALL. I'M SAYING WHAT IT WAS AT THAT ERA IN TIME IN HISTORY. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. COUNCIL MEMBER CLENDENIN. >>ALAN CLENDENIN: I UNDERSTAND THE ISSUES, ESPECIALLY BECAUSE THEY AFFECT YOUR DISTRICT SEVERELY. I'VE GOTTEN THAT FEEDBACK. IT APPEARS BASED ON MY UNDERSTANDING WE HAVE REALLY TWO PROBLEMATIC ESTABLISHMENTS THAT CREATE MOST OF THE ISSUES THAT COME OUT OF SOUTH HOWARD AND EVERYBODY ELSE IS A RELATIVELY GOOD PLAYER. I SAY ALL THE TIME, THIS IS A WEIRD LINEAR, ODD-SHAPED CITY THAT NOW WE KNOW THAT TRYING TO GET FROM TAMPA PALMS TO GANDY CAN TAKE YOU OVER AN HOUR SOME DAYS. IT'S DIFFICULT TO SAY WE'LL HAVE ONE ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT BECAUSE IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY SERVE THE GOOD OF THE ENTIRE CITY, THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE HERE. THIS IS JUST ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT I THINK WHEN THESE ISSUES COME BEFORE US, EVERY ISSUE STANDS ON ITS OWN MERITS. SOMETIMES COUNCILS AND COUNCILS BEFORE US GET IT RIGHT AND SOMETIMES GET IT WRONG. YOU CAN'T GO BACK REALLY AND FIX THE WRONGS OF THE PAST AS CLEARLY, SPECIFICALLY ONE ESTABLISHMENT ON HOWARD THAT WAS A BAD THING WHEN THEY WET ZONED EXTERIOR AND HAD A VERY BAD ADVERSE IMPACT ON THAT NEIGHBORHOOD. I THINK IT'S INCUMBENT ON US TO TAKE THESE ISSUES ONE AT A TIME AND DEAL WITH IT BECAUSE SOME THINGS MAKE SENSE. I WAS ON THE OPPOSING SIDE. I THINK I MAY HAVE BEEN THE ONLY ONE ABOUT THE WET ZONING OF THAT PATIO IN YBOR CITY FOR THE CLUB BECAUSE OF THE PROXIMITY TO THE RESIDENTS THAT WERE BUILDING. I THINK I WAS THE ONLY ONE THAT VOTED AGAINST THAT. BUT CLEARLY THE WILL OF THIS COUNCIL WAS TO GO THE OTHER DIRECTION. I DON'T SEE HOW WE CAN CREATE THE ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT. I THINK STAFF'S DECISION ON THAT WAS CORRECT. I THINK WE JUST HAVE TO BE MORE DILIGENT ABOUT HOW WE APPROVE THESE ESTABLISHMENTS AND WHEN WE GRANT A WAIVER WHETHER IT MAKES SENSE OR NOT, BECAUSE SOMETIMES THEY DO. I MEAN, I KNOW WHAT PEOPLE SAY ABOUT YBOR. YBOR CITY IN THAT DENSE AREA THAT WE BASICALLY HAVE, QUASI-WITHOUT CALLING IT AN ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT WE DO. GRANT WAIVERS ALL THE TIME BECAUSE WE HAVE A BAR RIGHT UP AGAINST A BAR. IT MAKES SENSE. KIND OF COMMON SENSE. SOME AREAS IT MAY NOT BE AS COMMON SENSE ESPECIALLY IF WE'RE ADVERSELY A NEIGHBORHOOD, ESPECIALLY WITH OUTDOOR NOISE. I KIND OF THINK WE HAVE TO BE MORE -- IT'S GOOD TO HAVE THIS DISCUSSION BECAUSE I THINK IT BRINGS COUNCIL'S ATTENTION TO IT SO AS WE DEAL WITH THESE ISSUES, WE'RE COGNIZANT OF IT AND WE TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE IMPACT IT HAS ON NEIGHBORS AND WE'RE MORE AWARE OF IT SO WE HOPEFULLY MINIMIZE MISTAKES THAT WE MAKE. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: ALL RIGHT. ANYTHING ELSE, SIR? WAIT, COUNCIL MEMBER HENDERSON. >>GWEN HENDERSON: THANK YOU. IN MY OPINION, I JUST FEEL IT'S TOO MUCH OVERREACH TO CREATE, FOR US TO DECIDE UPON WHAT WOULD BE AN ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT. ONE THING I'VE LEARNED FROM SITTING UP HERE IS SOUTH TAMPA DOES A REALLY GOOD JOB FIGHTING FOR WHAT THEY WANT AND DON'T WANT. WE SHOULD TAKE IT ON A CASE-BY-CASE BASIS AND LET THE PEOPLE SPEAK AND WE HAVE OUR DECISION WHERE WE DECIDE AND IT TAKES FOUR VOTES. IT'S NOT NECESSARY FOR US TO DIVE IN AND CREATE THE ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT BECAUSE WE MIGHT GET IT WRONG AND WE MIGHT BE IMPACTING A PLACE THAT MAY DEVELOP INTO A LARGER COMMUNITY THAT HAS MORE RESIDENTS IN THE FUTURE AND THEN THE ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT, THEY ARE STUCK WITH IT. THAT'S HOW YBOR CITY FEELS. THEY MOVE INTO YBOR CITY. THEY LOVE IT. ONCE THEY ARE THERE, THEY WANT THE NOISE REDUCTION. THEY DON'T LIKE IT. IT'S TOO MUCH. YOU CAN'T MAKE EVERYBODY HAPPY TRYING TO MAKE DECISIONS LIKE THAT. I THINK IT'S TOO MUCH OVERREACH FOR US TO CREATE AN ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT. >>BILL CARLSON: SO THE QUESTION IS NOT WHETHER TO CREATE AN ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT OR NOT. THAT WAS THE QUESTION IN THE OTHER MOTION. THE QUESTION IS RIGHT NOW WE'RE ALLOWING ON AN AD HOC BASIS WE'RE ALLOWING CONCENTRATIONS OF ALCOHOL. SO THAT IS AD HOC CREATING AN ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT. ACCIDENT CREATING. LET'S TAKE PARTS OF FLORIDA AVENUE AND NEBRASKA AVENUE. I'LL TRY NOT TO MENTION SPECIFIC RESTAURANTS OR BARS, BUT IF THERE ARE TWO OR THREE RIGHT NEXT TO EACH OTHER THAT ARE WITHIN THE DISTANCE RULES AND THEY HAVE BEEN PREVIOUSLY APPROVED, A FOURTH ONE WILL COME IN AND SAY, WELL, YOU APPROVED THOSE, WHY NOT APPROVE THE FOURTH ONE AND FIFTH ONE AND SIXTH ONE. SUDDENLY THERE ARE 20 BARS RIGHT NEXT TO A THRIVING NEIGHBORHOOD. WE DIDN'T DECIDE IT WOULD BE AN ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT. IT HAPPENED AD HOC. AN EXAMPLE OF SOMETHING WE COULD DO IS TO SAY IF THEY ARE WITHIN A GIVEN AREA OR WITHIN A NEIGHBORHOOD, IF THERE ARE MORE THAN -- JUST MAKING THIS UP OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD -- IF MORE THAN FOUR ALCOHOL LICENSES THAT ARE ALL WITHIN THE DISTANCE REQUIREMENT, THAT THERE IS A SPECIAL PROCESS YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH TO ADD MORE SO WE DON'T END UP WITH CONCENTRATIONS OF ALCOHOL. THERE MAY BE AREAS WHERE PEOPLE DON'T OBJECT TO IT, LIKE IN DOWNTOWN. I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE OBJECT TO LATE NIGHT IN DOWNTOWN. IN A PLACE LIKE YBOR, I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY ALCOHOL LICENSES THERE ARE, BUT LET'S SAY 20 WITHIN THE SETBACK GUIDELINES THAT WERE PREVIOUSLY APPROVED, SOMEBODY WILL ARGUE, WELL, CITY COUNCIL APPROVED ALL THOSE SO THERE SHOULD BE OTHERS THAT WOULD BE ALLOWED. >>GWEN HENDERSON: BUT WE DON'T HAVE TO. >>BILL CARLSON: BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THEM ONE BY ONE AND IF A NEIGHBORHOOD IS NOT LOOKING AT THE CONTEXT OF IT, THEY MAY NOT KNOW. EVEN WITH WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT SOUTH TAMPA, THERE ARE LIKE FIVE VERY POWERFUL NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATIONS ALL AROUND HOWARD AVENUE. AND THOSE BARS SNUCK UP ON THEM. THEY DIDN'T REALIZE THAT'S WHAT IT WAS GOING TO BE. I WAS INVOLVED IN NEIGHBORHOODS AT THE TIME. AND JUST INDIVIDUAL ALCOHOL LICENSE YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND. BUT IF YOU SUDDENLY LOOK AT THE CONTEXT OF IT -- LIKE, ONE THING WE COULD ASK FOR -- I DON'T THINK WE GET THIS RIGHT NOW. IF SOMEBODY IS ASKING FOR AN ALCOHOL LICENSE, WE WOULD SEE A MAP OF ADJACENT ALCOHOL LICENSES AND HOW MANY ARE WITHIN THE DISTANCE REQUIREMENT SO THAT WE COULD SEE WHAT THE CONCENTRATIONS ARE AND WHAT THE OVERALL IMPACT IS. ANYWAY, I WANTED TO BRING THIS UP FOR DISCUSSION. JUST FOR THE PUBLIC, WE'RE NOT ALLOWED TO TALK ABOUT ISSUES OUTSIDE OF THIS CHAMBER. THE ONLY WAY WE CAN HAVE A CONVERSATION IS DISCUSS IT HERE AND THAT'S WHAT WORKSHOPS ARE FOR. I DON'T HAVE A SPECIFIC PLAN. I JUST WANTED TO SEE WHAT YOUR IDEAS WERE. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: MR. SHELBY. >>MARTIN SHELBY: YES, COUNCIL. I DON'T LIKE HAVING MY BACK TO YOU, COUNCIL MEMBER CARLSON. MARTIN SHELBY, CITY COUNCIL ATTORNEY. JUST A REMINDER, COUNCIL, THAT WHEN SOMEBODY IS REQUESTING A WAIVER FROM A DISTANCE SEPARATION REQUIREMENT, THERE ARE CODE REQUIREMENTS FOR THE GRANTING OF A WAIVER. AND THOSE ARE OFTEN, AND IF NOT, I'LL DOUBLE CHECK TO MAKE SURE, AT LEAST THEY WERE LISTED IN EVERY ALCOHOLIC SPECIAL USE APPLICATION STAFF REPORT. AND THE CODE STATES THAT THE APPLICANT HAS THE BURDEN OF MEETING THAT CRITERIA. NOW, IF YOU DON'T ADDRESS THAT DURING THE COURSE OF THE HEARING AND THEY DON'T ADDRESS IT DURING THE COURSE OF THE HEARING BUT YOU GRANT THE WAIVER, IT HAS THE PRACTICAL EFFECT OF GIVING THEM A WAIVER FOR THE DISTANCE SEPARATION. JUST LIKE WITH EVERY OTHER KIND OF CASE WHERE A WAIVER IS REQUESTED, THE CODE REQUIRES THAT THEY MEET THEIR BURDEN OF MEETING THAT REQUIREMENT. AS YOU KNOW, YOU CAN DENY A WAIVER ON THE BASIS OF THE FACT THERE'S NO COMPETENT SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT IT AND THEREFORE THE DISCRETION IS WITH YOU BASED ON THE EVIDENCE YOU HEAR AT THE HEARING AND THE BURDEN IS ON THE APPLICANT. >>BILL CARLSON: WE CAN CHANGE THE CODE IF WE WANT. ONE OTHER THING, FOR HOWARD AVENUE AND YBOR, THE MARKETS WILL DECIDE. IT'S ALREADY TOO LATE. THE DECISIONS WERE MADE. IN YBOR WE KNOW THE MARKETS ARE PUSHING BACK AND THAT THERE'S MORE EQUILIBRIUM COMING. THE AREAS I'M MORE WORRIED ABOUT RIGHT NOW ARE TAMPA HEIGHTS. WE HAVE ARMATURE WORKS. WE'VE GOT THE NORTH-SOUTH ROADS NEXT TO IT, SEMINOLE HEIGHTS. THERE IS A HIGH CONCENTRATION GOING IN THOSE AREAS. I THINK THAT IS GOING TO BECOME -- THE GOOD THING IS IT COULD BECOME AN ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT. PEOPLE LOVE TO GO THERE. THE DOWN SIDE IS THAT THE NEIGHBORHOODS ONLY HAVE INPUT ON AD HOC BASIS AS TO WHETHER ALCOHOL LICENSE WOULD GO THERE. >>ALAN CLENDENIN: AGAIN, I THINK THIS IS A REALLY GOOD DISCUSSION. I THINK THIS IS WHAT I APPRECIATE ABOUT WORKSHOPS IS BEING ABLE TO HAVE THESE KIND OF DISCUSSIONS. ARMATURE WORKS, WHY THESE THINGS HAVE TO STAND ON THEIR OWN BECAUSE WE HAVE THE OLD TROLLEY BARN, CONFINED WITH THE HIGH CONCENTRATION OF LIQUOR LICENSE IN ONE BUILDING. IT IS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF THAT MAKES SENSE. COMMON SENSE TO APPROVE THE THINGS, ISOLATED ISLAND OF CONCENTRATION SO IF WE ARE RIGIDLY ENFORCING, MAYBE WE WOULDN'T HAVE A COUPLE OF THE ESTABLISHMENTS IN THERE. WE WOULDN'T HAVE APPROVED THOSE. I THINK IT'S GOOD TO HAVE THIS CONVERSATION SO WHEN THESE ISSUES COME BEFORE US IN THE FUTURE, AT LEAST WE KNOW THAT WE SHOULD BE WEIGHING THESE THINGS AND AS MARTIN SHELBY SAID, THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON THE APPLICANT TO ENSURE THEY MEET THESE REQUIREMENTS FOR THE NEIGHBORS AND THAT WE ARE AT LEAST SENSITIVE TO ALL THESE ISSUES. I APPRECIATE THE CONVERSATION. I THINK IT IS GOOD -- I THINK THE BURDEN IS ON CITY COUNCIL TO MAKE SURE THAT WE MAKE THE BEST DECISION WE CAN BASED ON THE INFORMATION PRESENTED BEFORE US. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. SIR. >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I WASN'T GOING TO SAY ANYTHING BUT I AGREE WITH COUNCIL MEMBER CLENDENIN. THE BURDEN IS ON US. WE CAN SIT HERE ALL DAY, BUT I CAN SAY THAT WHEN A RESTAURANT COMES IN TO GET THAT, THEY DON'T MAKE TOO MUCH MONEY ON THE MEAL. PREVIOUS MANAGING PARTNER OF CAFE PEPE, I CAN TELL YOU ALCOHOL, WINE OR BEER OR DRINK, A MEAL, A DESSERT AND A COFFEE, YOU MAKE MORE MONEY ON THE COFFEE AND DESSERT AND ON THE DRINK THAN YOU DO ON THE TOTAL MEAL. THE MEAL MAY COST $30. BUT YOU HAVE A 45% COST. A DRINK YOU ARE ABOUT 12.5% COST 13%. SO THEY LOOK AT ALL THOSE NUMBERS. THIS IS ME SPEAKING FROM MY EXPERIENCE IN THE PAST, BUT THE NUMBERS MAY HAVE CHANGED NOW. MARKET FLUCTUATES SO MUCH ON THE COST OF ITEMS. WHAT I'M SAYING, IT'S DIFFICULT TO HAVE ONE RESTAURANT HERE, ONE RIGHT NEXT TO IT AND ANOTHER ONE. I'M NOT A LAWYER. I'M NOT DISPUTING WHAT MR. SHELBY SAID, WHAT HAPPENS TO THE FOURTH ONE THAT COMES IN LINE AND YOU SAY NO TO HIM. HOW DID THE OTHER THREE GET IT? THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS. IT'S UP TO US AND I APPRECIATE THE DISCUSSION VERY MUCH BUT CATCH 22 NO MATTER WHICH WAY YOU GO. YOU CAN DENY. GO TO COURT AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS. MAYBE HAVE A TRIAL AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS. THAT'S ALL I CAN SAY. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. IF THERE'S NOTHING FURTHER -- IS THERE ANYBODY HERE WHO WISHES TO SPEAK FOR PUBLIC COMMENT ON THIS ITEM, PLEASE COME UP AND STATE YOUR NAME. GOOD MORNING, SIR. >> MENTESNOT, TAMPA, FLORIDA. AS A MATTER OF FACT, THINK THAT ANYTHING COUNCILMAN CARLSON BRINGS OR THINK THEY ARE GOING TO SAY JUST THE OPPOSITE. EVERYONE WILL SAY JUST THE OPPOSITE. I THINK YOU HAVE TO SPEAK IN OPPOSITES TO GET ANYTHING DONE IN THIS CITY COUNCIL BECAUSE CERTAIN PEOPLE THEY DON'T RECOGNIZE AND THEY DON'T RECOGNIZE THE CONTRIBUTIONS OF THEIR SUGGESTIONS. HOW MANY LIQUOR LICENSES ARE THERE IN DISTRICT 5? >>MARTIN SHELBY: JUST A REMINDER TO COUNCIL, YOU DON'T ENGAGE IN ANSWERING QUESTIONS OR DIALOGUE DURING PUBLIC COMMENT. THAT'S COUNCIL'S -- >> SIR, I DON'T WANT ANYBODY ANSWERING ANY QUESTIONS. THEY CAN'T ANSWER ANY OF MY QUESTIONS. NO ONE UP THERE IS INTELLIGENT ENOUGH TO ANSWER ANY OF MY QUESTIONS. AND NO ONE UP THERE IS COMPASSIONATE ENOUGH TO CARE ABOUT ANYTHING I HAVE TO SAY. YOU MAKE THAT SAME STUPID SPEECH EVERY WEEK, WEEK AFTER WEEK. IT'S A STUPID SPEECH. THEY DON'T ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS ANYWAY. SOMEBODY CAME AROUND HERE AND TALKED ABOUT A DOG OR TREE, THEY HAVE LOTS OF CONVERSATIONS. TALK ABOUT THE AFRICAN COMMUNITY, THEY HAVE NO RESPONSES OR NO CONVERSATIONS. 824 YEARS OF THAT, AFRICAN PEOPLE EXPECT THAT. THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, OUR REPRESENTATIVES FROM DISTRICT 5 DON'T KNOW HOW MANY LIQUOR LICENSES THERE ARE IN DISTRICT 5. THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS FOR 40 YEARS I'VE BEEN COMING DOWN HERE, SINCE PERRY HARVEY WAS DOWN HERE, SAYING INUNDATION OF LIQUOR, JUST LIQUOR, ALCOHOL, TOBACCO PRODUCTS THAT OUR KIDS SEE INSIDE OUR COMMUNITIES AND NONE OF THE PEOPLE UP THERE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT IT. ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY NONE. IN ESSENCE YOU HAVE TO SPEAK IN REVERSE WHEN YOU TALK DOWN HERE. SAY, HEY, DON'T FIX BAYSHORE BOULEVARD BECAUSE THE RESIDENTS DOWN THERE, THEY ARE NOT CONCERNED ABOUT WHEN A LITTLE BIT OF RAIN, HIGH FLOODS ON BAYSHORE BOULEVARD. DON'T FIX BAYSHORE BOULEVARD FROM GANDY TO MACDILL AIR FORCE BASE. THE STREETS ARE JUST FINE. DON'T FIX THE FLOODING ON BAYSHORE BOULEVARD, EUCLID AVENUE OR HENDERSON BOULEVARD. DON'T FIX IT. IT'S JUST FINE. YOU HAVE TO SPEAK IN REVERSE FOR YOU FOOLS TO LISTEN. I WANTED TO SAY SOMETHING ELSE BUT WE'LL KEEP IT AT FOOLS. THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, IT'S TOO MANY LIQUOR LICENSES IN THE CITY OF TAMPA, PERIOD. TOO MUCH ALCOHOL. TOO MUCH TOBACCO, TOO MUCH MARIJUANA. ALL THE OTHER STUFF THAT GOES WITH IT. SO WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT THESE LIQUOR LICENSES, WHEN YOU LOOK UP IN THE COMMUNITIES AND SOME LATE NIGHTS RIDING BEHIND LIKE AN ABUNDANCE OF CARS AND YOU'RE LIKE, WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON HERE? SOMEPLACE SERVING ALCOHOL RIGHT IN THE HEART OF YOUR COMMUNITY AND THAT NEEDS TO STOP. THAT'S NO WAY TO RUN A CITY, PERIOD, ESPECIALLY FOR THE RESIDENTS WHO HAVE TO STAY THERE 24/7. THANK YOU. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SIR. NEXT SPEAKER, YES, MA'AM. GOOD MORNING. PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME. >> GOOD MORNING. STEPHANIE POYNOR. CAN WE PLACE MAKE AN ANNOUNCEMENT WITH THE DIFFERENT RULES ABOUT WORKSHOPS TODAY? WE CHANGED THE RULES. THERE'S NO REGULAR PUBLIC COMMENT AND NOBODY ANNOUNCED THAT AT THE BEGINNING OF THE MEETING TO TALK ABOUT IT. THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN NICE. I'M SURE THERE ARE FOLKS HERE THAT HAVE THEIR OWN AGENDA TO TALK ABOUT, NOT A PARTICULAR ITEM. I WOULD LIKE TO POINT OUT MY PERSONAL DISPOSITION ON HOW MANY BARS RESTAURANTS WHATEVER WITHIN A CERTAIN AREA IS KIND OF, OH, WHATEVER, IN MY PERSONAL OPINION BUT I DON'T LIVE NEXT TO SOHO. BUT I ALSO WANT TO POINT OUT THIS IS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY OUR PLANNING DEPARTMENT IS SO IMPORTANT, BECAUSE THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME FUTURE PLANNING. THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED TO SOUTH OF GANDY. WE LOOKED UP AND WENT, HOLY CRAP, THERE'S 8,000 APARTMENTS COMING DOWN HERE AND NOBODY HAD SEEN IT UNTIL I TOOK YOU GUYS ON A TOUR AND YOU WENT, HOLY CRAP, THAT'S A LOT OF APARTMENTS. THIS IS WHY US NOT HAVING A PLANNING DEPARTMENT, I DON'T KNOW WHY BOB BUCKHORN DIDN'T THINK WE NEEDED ONE, I DON'T KNOW WHY THERE WASN'T ONE BEFORE, THIS IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WHY OUR PLANNING DEPARTMENT IS SO IMPORTANT AND WHY I THINK COUNCILMAN CARLSON REALLY HAS A GOOD POINT TO SHOW THAT WE NEED TO HAVE A PLAN FOR WHAT WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO. BY WILLY-NILLY APPROVING THINGS WITHOUT SEEING THE BIG PICTURE, IT MAKES IT REALLY HARD. I THINK STAFF DOES A REALLY GOOD JOB OF COMING UP HERE AND TRYING TO SHOW YOU THE BIG PICTURE, BUT SOMETIMES YOU DRIVE BY STUFF AND YOU GO, OH, I GET IT. JUST LIKE THE SOUTH HOWARD PROJECT. UNTIL YOU WENT TO SEE PARKLAND ESTATES, YOU DIDN'T GET WHAT THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT. YOU WERE LIKE WHY ARE THEY COMPLAINING? I DON'T GET IT. BUT THIS IS ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF WHERE YOU PIECEMEAL ONE PIECE AT A TIME, HOW DO YOU EAT AN ELEPHANT? ONE BITE AT A TIME AND THAT'S WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THESE SITUATIONS. I WOULD ALSO OFFER THAT I THINK COUNCILMAN MIRANDA MADE A GOOD POINT. USED TO BE YOU HAD TO SERVE SO MUCH FOOD ALONG WITH THE ALCOHOL AND THE ESTABLISHMENTS THAT REALLY SEEMED TO CAUSE THE PROBLEM AREN'T SERVING ENOUGH FOOD TO COUNTERACT THE AMOUNT OF POURING THAT'S GOING ON. THAT'S WHERE YOU ARE ROLLING OUT INTO THE NEIGHBORHOODS. IT'S WHERE IT GETS TO THE POINT OF BEING IRRESPONSIBLE AND HAVING ADDITIONAL ISSUES. AND THAT MAY NEED TO BE CONGREGATED THERE CERTAIN AREAS. I'M SORRY. I LIVE SOUTH OF GANDY AND WE DON'T HAVE ANY PLACE TO GO AND EAT. WE WOULD LOVE TO HAVE -- THAT'S WHY I NEVER COMPLAIN ABOUT WANTING TO PUT IN A PUB, BAR OR RESTAURANT SOUTH OF GANDY BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE ANY PLACE TO GO AND EAT. NOT COMPARED TO THE POPULATION THAT WE HAVE NOW. THAT'S JUST WHAT I WANTED TO SAY FOR THIS ONE. THANK YOU. HAVE A GOOD DAY. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU. YES, SIR, GOOD MORNING. GOOD MORNING, SIR. PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME. >> GOOD MORNING. MY NAME IS PASTOR WILLIAMS, LOCATED 1112 EAST SCOTT STREET. YOU KNOW, WE COME DOWN HERE WEEK AFTER WEEK TRYING TO GET SOMETHING DONE. YOU ALL DON'T HEAR NOTHING WE'RE SAYING AND YOU TELL US. COURT HOUSE DOWN THE STREET. KU KLUX KLAN COURTHOUSE. YOU KNOW, I WENT TO ST. PETERSBURG ABOUT 20 YEARS AGO, AND THEY WANTED ME TO SPEAK ON JUNETEENTH. I SAID WHAT IN THE HELL IS JUNETEENTH? I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT IT WAS. I WENT OVER THERE AND I SPOKE. I SPOKE WHAT I DID KNOW. IT RAINED THAT DAY. A LADY WHO WAS REAL NICE TO ME CAME OUT WANTING TO GIVE ME A DONATION. I SAID I AIN'T DONE NOTHING FOR NO DONATION. SHE SAID, YEAH, THIS FOR YOU. I SAID, NO, DON'T WORRY ABOUT ME. I'M ALL RIGHT. WE SHOULD NOT CALL IT JUNETEENTH. KU KLUX KLAN MURDERED THAT POOR BOY NO REASON AT ALL. WHISTLED AT A WHITE GIRL. WHO CARES WHISTLE AT A WHITE GIRL. SO RIDICULOUS WHAT THEY KILL THE BOY OFF. CUT OFF PRIVATE, PUT IN MOUTH. DONE SOME EVIL THINGS TO PEOPLE OF COLOR AND STILL IS. DON'T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT US BUT WE HAVE TO CARE ABOUT OURSELVES. PEOPLE CALL US -- WHETHER YOU THANK ME OR NOT, I'LL CONTINUE TO LOVE HIM UNTIL I GO TO THE GRAVEYARD. WE'VE GOT SO MUCH PROBLEMS HERE IN THE UNITED STATES, JUST LIKE SPEAKING ON TV. TALKING ABOUT PUTTING BRICKS ON THE ROAD. WHO GIVES A DAMN ABOUT BRICKS BEING ON THE ROAD. SOME HOUSING FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE HOMELESS. AND THEY ARE TRYING TO PUT ME OUT OF MY HOUSE NOW. AND THEY STILL TRYING. AND NOBODY CARES. BUT I CARE. I'M GOING TO BE THERE UNTIL THE DAY I DIE. THAT'S WHY I WANT TO BE. WHEN THESE PEOPLE COME UP HERE AND SPEAK, YOU NEED TO HEAR THEM. LISTEN TO THEM. LET THEM KNOW WHICH WAY THEY ARE GOING. SINCE WE HEARD YOU, YEAR GOING TO WRITE ABOUT IT NEXT WEEK. NO, YOU DON'T CARE. WE COME DOWN HERE WEEK AFTER WEEK. THE PLACE IS PRACTICALLY EMPTY NOW. WHAT YOU ALL GOING TO TALK ABOUT? SAY, WELL, TALK ABOUT TWO OR THREE THAT CAME DOWN HERE, BUT GOT TO UNDERSTAND, YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO REPRESENT THE CITY. NOBODY KEEP SAYING NOTHING ABOUT THE CITY. IT'S ALL ABOUT THEMSELVES. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SIR. >> GOD BLESS YOU ALL. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: NEXT SPEAKER. GOOD MORNING, SIR. >> STEVE MICHELINI. I'M HERE TO SPEAK ABOUT THE COUNCIL'S MOTION REGARDING ALCOHOL. YOU HAVE SAFEGUARDS THAT ARE BUILT IN. ONE OF THEM IS CALLED THE DISTANCE WAIVERS. RESTAURANTS, I THINK -- I MEAN, I THINK STEPHANIE POYNOR POINTED OUT, RESTAURANTS SHOULD BE A DIFFERENT KIND OF CATEGORY AND SUPPORTED. IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT BARS, THAT IS A DIFFERENT WAIVER YOU HAVE. YOU ALL HAVE ULTIMATE CONTROL OVER WHAT THAT GOES THROUGH OR NOT. BUT THE RESTAURANTS, IF THEY WERE SITTING SIDE BY SIDE AND HOLDING HANDS WITH EACH OTHER, THEY STILL HAVE TO SEEK A DISTANCE WAIVER. YOU MIGHT WANT TO LOOK AT THAT TO ENCOURAGE MORE RESTAURANTS AND MAKE IT EASIER FOR THOSE THAT ARE SERVING AT 51%, 49, VERSUS THOSE THAT WANT STRAIGHT ALCOHOL. SO WHEN WE BRING PETITIONS TO YOU, ESPECIALLY FOR ME, I'M VERY CAREFUL ABOUT BRINGING THINGS THAT ARE STRAIGHT ALCOHOL TO YOU WITHOUT SOME JUSTIFICATION. FOR EXAMPLE, PLACES LIKE BERN'S STEAK HOUSE HAS -- NO ONE WOULD CONSIDER THAT A ROWDY PLACE. PLACES LIKE THE COLUMBIA HAVE STRAIGHT ALCOHOL. BUT THEY ARE SELLING ALCOHOL TO GO. THERE IS A DIFFERENT KIND OF CONCEPT THAT'S INVOLVED THERE. I WOULD URGE COUNCIL TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT SETTING REGULATIONS THAT PROHIBIT CERTAIN TYPES OF ALCOHOL BEING CONSIDERED. AGAIN, YOU ALL HAVE ULTIMATE CONTROL OVER WHETHER THAT IS APPROVED OR NOT. DON'T GRANT THE WAIVER IF YOU DON'T WANT THE BARS IN THERE. BUT RESTAURANTS ARE A WHOLE DIFFERENT STORY AND THEY DESERVE YOUR SUPPORT. IT'S HARD ENOUGH TO GET THAT TO HAPPEN IF YOU LOOK AT CENTRAL AVENUE OVER IN ST. PETERSBURG, WALL-TO-WALL RESTAURANTS UP AND DOWN THE STREET, BUT IT MAKES IT MORE DIFFICULT TO TRY TO ACHIEVE THOSE GOALS, ESPECIALLY WITH INFILL FOR PARKING. THE CITY HAS APPLIED DIFFERENT LIFE SAFETY STANDARDS FOR PARKING THAT AN INFILL RESTAURANT CAN'T MEET. THOSE WAIVERS HAVE TO COME TO YOU AND YOU HAVE TO CONSIDER THEM FOR APPROVAL OR NOT. ANYWAY, I WOULD URGE THE COUNCIL TO LOOK AT THOSE REGULATIONS AND MAKE IT EASIER FOR RESTAURANTS. MAKE IT EASIER FOR INFILL, ESPECIALLY IF YOU'RE GOING FROM BEER AND WINE ON AN INFILL RESTAURANT TO BEER, WINE, AND LIQUOR. WHEN YOU KNOW THAT YOU CAN'T MEET THOSE CODES. ANYWAY, I WOULD BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. BUT THANK YOU FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SIR. COUNCILMAN MIRANDA. >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. I'M NOT IN DISAGREEMENT WITH WHAT MR. MICHELINI SAID. HOWEVER THERE WAS A CAVEAT IF I REMEMBER THAT IF YOU HAD AN R AND YOU WANTED TO SELL LIQUOR, YOUR KITCHEN HAD TO BE OPEN WITH A CERTIFIED COOK IN THE BACK. YOU CAN'T JUST CLOSE THE RESTAURANT AT 10:00 AND SELL LIQUOR TILL 1:00 IN THE MORNING. THE KITCHEN HAD TO BE OPEN TO THE TIME, IF YOU CLOSE THE KITCHEN, YOU HAD TO CLOSE THE BAR. AM I CORRECT? >> YES, SIR. THAT'S STILL THE CASE. >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'M JUST REMEMBERING FROM THE CASE. >> THAT IS STILL THE CASE. IF YOU ARE A RESTAURANT -- >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: IT IS NOT A TWO-WAY CONVERSATION. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ANYTHING ELSE? >>BILL CARLSON: ONE LAST THING. ONE OF THE REASONS I WANTED TO BRING THIS UP HERE BECAUSE WE CAN'T TALK ABOUT IT DURING EACH CASE BECAUSE IT WOULD HURT THE RECORD ON THE CASES. IN PRIOR DISCUSSIONS WE'VE HAD LIKE THIS AND IN SOME OF THE CASES WE'VE MANAGED, WE HAVE TENDED TOWARD ESPECIALLY IF AN ALCOHOL LICENSE IS NEAR A NEIGHBORHOOD, WE TENDED TOWARD ASKING TO LIMIT THEIR OPERATING HOURS, ESPECIALLY AT MIDNIGHT. AND THEN NOT ALLOWING OUTDOOR AMPLIFIED SOUND. THOSE ARE TWO OF THE THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN FORMALLY OR INFORMALLY MODIFIED SINCE I'VE BEEN ON COUNCIL. THE THING THAT I'M GOING TO DO GOING FORWARD IS I'M GOING TO ASK FOR MAPS TO LOOK SPATIALLY AT ALL THE ALCOHOL LICENSES AND TO SEE HOW MANY IN AN AREA ARE WITHIN THE DISTANCE REQUIREMENT OR HOW MANY GOT WAIVERS. IF YOU ALL -- HOPEFULLY YOU ALL WILL LOOK AT THAT INFORMATION, TOO. I THINK THE CONTEXT IS IMPORTANT. WE DON'T OFTEN TALK ABOUT THE CONTEXT WHEN WE GET TO INDIVIDUAL CASES. WE NEED TO LOOK AT THE DISTANCE REQUIREMENT IS THERE FOR A REASON, AND THE MORE WE WAIVE IT, THE MORE CONCENTRATION OF ALCOHOL WE GET. THANK YOU. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >>ALAN CLENDENIN: ONE LAST THING SINCE WE HAVE A LIGHT MEETING. ONE THING THAT ROSE OUT OF THE CONVERSATION THAT I THINK PROBABLY NEEDS TO BE SCHEDULED -- PUT IT ON ANOTHER WORKSHOP -- BECAUSE THERE SEEMS TO BE INCONSISTENCY OR LACK OF AGREEMENT. WE HAVE RULES, BUT THERE SEEMS TO BE A SHIFT IN THE DYNAMIC. I KNOW COUNCILMAN MIRANDA IS ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THIS AND THAT IS PARKING. WHAT DRINKS IS COUNCIL -- WHAT DIRECTION IS THIS COUNCIL AND CITY GOING WITH HOW WE PARK FOR ESTABLISHMENTS? I KNOW MY E-MAIL IN-BOX IS FILLED CONSTANTLY WITH FOLKS ASKING THAT WE REDUCE PARKING MINIMUMS. WITH URBAN PLANNING, THERE IS AN IDEA AROUND BUILD IT AND THEY'LL COME. DON'T BUILD IT AND IT WILL PROVOKE OTHER FORMS OF TRANSPORTATION AND HOW PEOPLE GET AROUND AND REDUCE TRAFFIC CONGESTION AND REDUCE COST OF CONSTRUCTION. ULTIMATELY WE SEE THAT IN DOWNTOWN. PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THE COST OF PARKING GARAGES AND WE TALK ABOUT, AND THIS IS A SEGUE INTO WHAT WE'RE JUST DISCUSSING WITH THESE ESTABLISHMENTS. HOW ARE WE PARKING VEHICLES AND BUILDING TAMPA FOR THE FUTURE? I THINK IT'S SOMETHING WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT AND AT LEAST REACH CONSENSUS ON THIS COUNCIL IF WE'RE GOING TO STICK WITH THE CURRENT RULES OR ARE WE GOING TO PIVOT AND CHANGE TO MAYBE THE TAMPA OF TOMORROW? AT LEAST WE CAN ASK AND ANSWER THAT QUESTION BECAUSE IT'S CONSTANTLY BEFORE US AND DEALING WITH THESE PIECEMEAL WITHOUT REALLY, I THINK, A GENERAL DIRECTION OF WHICH WAY WE WANT TO GO. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. DOES THAT CONCLUDE THE ITEM? IF SO, WE'LL GO TO ITEM NUMBER 2. THIS IS A MOTION BY COUNCIL MEMBER VIERA, IF YOU WANT TO START OFF THE DISCUSSION. >>LUIS VIERA: YES, SIR. APPRECIATE THAT, MR. CHAIRMAN. THIS IS AN ISSUE -- I FIRST, AGAIN, WANTED TO THANK ATTORNEY MATT NEWTON AND PROFESSOR ZOLLIE HASHNEL WHO ASSISTED ON THIS ISSUE BEFORE. THIS IS AN ISSUE IN TERMS OF WHAT I THINK IS PROPER FOR THE CITY OF TAMPA. I DON'T THINK THAT MY PROPOSAL HAS SUPPORT ON TAMPA CITY COUNCIL RIGHT NOW. BUT THE ISSUE IS NOT GOING TO GO AWAY. AND THAT'S WHY WE NEED TO SPEAK ON IT TODAY. BECAUSE THE ISSUE IS NOT GOING TO GO AWAY. WHEN YOU HAVE CITY OF TAMPA ELECTIONS WHERE 93%, 92% OF FOLKS DON'T BOTHER TO SHOW UP IN 2023 AND 75% OF PEOPLE DON'T BOTHER TO SHOW UP IN 2019, YOU HAVE A BIG ISSUE. THERE ARE DIFFERENT ARGUMENTS ON THIS. I ALWAYS SAY THAT ON A LOT OF ISSUES, THERE IS A LOT OF GRAY AND ARGUMENTS ON BOTH SIDES. I THINK ON THIS ISSUE, THE EVEN YEAR OPTION, ESPECIALLY FOR GUBERNATORIAL ELECTIONS, FAR OUTWEIGHS THE SYSTEM WE HAVE RIGHT NOW. THERE ARE A LOT OF ARGUMENTS THAT CAN BE USED AGAINST THIS THAT I DON'T THINK HOLD UP WATER, HOLD WATER, SO TO SPEAK. THE FACT IS THAT WE SPEND ANYWHERE FROM 500 TO 700 THOUSAND DOLLARS EVERY ELECTION CYCLE IN CITY OF TAMPA TAX DOLLARS TO HAVE ODD YEAR ELECTIONS THAT AS I'LL DISCUSS MAKE OUR ELECTIONS LESS DIVERSE AND WITH LESS PARTICIPATION. WE SPENT IN 2023, $543,000 CHECK WE WROTE TO THE SUPERVISOR OF ELECTIONS. IN 2019, $716,000 CHECK THAT WE WROTE TO THE SUPERVISOR OF ELECTIONS. AS I'LL DISCUSS BRIEFLY, WE SPEND MORE TO GET LESS AS A CITY OF TAMPA. NUMBER ONE, AND I DISCUSSED THIS LAST TIME. THE MORE DIVERSE AND LOWER INCOME YOUR PRECINCT IS, THE BIGGER OF A DROP-OFF THERE IS BETWEEN THE EVEN-YEAR ELECTION AND ODD-YEAR ELECTIONS THAT WE HAVE HERE IN THE CITY OF TAMPA. I WENT OVER LAST TIME A FEW PRECINCTS. 338 OFF BUSCH BOULEVARD. THERE WAS A 70% DROP FROM 2022, 2019. 90% DROP FROM 22 TO 23. PRECINCTS 308, 309, 321, 325, EAST TAMPA AREA PRECINCT 70 TO 75 PERCENT DROP. YOU TAKE THOSE ELECTINS ON BAYSHORE, 111 AND TAMPA PALMS, THE DROP-OFF WAS ABOUT 59 TO 60 PERCENT. THE MORE AFFLUENT YOUR PRECINCT IS, THE LESS OF A DROP-OFF YOU HAVE CITY OF TAMPA ELECTIONS THEREBY MAKING OUR ELECTIONS MORE AFFLUENT AND LESS DIVERSE, AND WE PAY, AGAIN, HALF A MILLION TO THREE-QUARTERS OF A MILLION DOLLARS FOR THAT. THERE ARE FOLKS WHO SAY, LISTEN, WE NEED TO HAVE OUR OWN SPECIAL ELECTIONS RIGHT? BECAUSE WE WANT VOTERS WHO ARE MORE ENGAGED. AS MY FRIEND MATT NEWTON WROTE IN A COLUMN IN CREATIVE LOAFING I BELIEVE IT WAS, THAT'S THE IDEA OF THE GOOD VOTER VERSUS THE BAD VOTER. TO ME THERE'S NO BAD VOTER. I JUST WANT VOTERS. THAT'S IT. I WANT MORE PEOPLE TO VOTE AND THAT'S THE NUMBER ONE ISSUE THAT WE SHOULD BE STRESSING IN THIS. THE ARGUMENT THAT SOMEHOW WE NEED TO PROTECT THE FUND-RAISING CAPABILITIES OF PEOPLE RUNNING FOR TAMPA CITY COUNCIL TO THE TUNE OF HALF A MILLION TO THREE-QUARTERS OF A MILLION DOLLARS IN TAXPAYER FUNDS IS ONE THAT I RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE WITH. BY THE WAY, RECENT ELECTIONS SHOW THAT THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT YOU SPEND IN LOCAL ELECTIONS HAS NO CAUSAL CONNECTION WHATSOEVER TO VICTORY. LOOK AT THE RECENT SCHOOL BOARD ELECTIONS. NADIA COMBS SPENT 50% AS MUCH AS HER OPPONENT. SHE WON. LOOK AT 2023, CITY OF TAMPA ELECTION, COUNCILWOMAN HURTAK DOUBLED THE FUND-RAISING AMOUNT OF HER OPPONENT. SHE WON THAT. COUNCILMAN CARLSON, I WAS SURPRISED, THREE TIMES -- NEVER KNEW THAT -- THREE TIMES AS MUCH AS HIS OPPONENT. HE WON BY 18 OR SO POINTS. THE REVERSE IS TRUE. USE MINE. 2016, MY FIRST ELECTION. I OUTSPENT MY OPPONENT, DR. JIM DAVISON, VERY NICE GENTLEMAN, ALMOST 7-1. I LIMPED TO VICTORY BY ONE POINT, 65 VOTES IN THIS. BY PUTTING ELECTIONS IN EVEN-YEAR NUMBERS, WE DON'T NECESSARILY NATIONALIZE ELECTIONS. LOOK AT THE ATTEMPT TO NATIONALIZE THE SCHOOL BOARD RACES. IN 2022 AND 2024, FAILED MISERABLY IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY. ST. PETERSBURG RECENTLY CHANGED THIS AND THE VOTERS SUPPORTED IT BY 70%. SO, AGAIN, THE FACT IS THAT WE SPEND BETWEEN THREE-QUARTERS OF A MILLION DOLLARS TO HALF A MILLION DOLLARS -- MAY I HAVE 30 EXTRA SECONDS, SIR? >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: YEAH, YEAH. >>LUIS VIERA: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. TO MAKE ELECTIONS CHEAPER FOR POLITICIANS. THEE ARE DIFFERENT IDEAS ON THIS. THEY HAVE NOVEMBER ELECTIONS. I MUCH RATHER PREFER GUBERNATORIAL ELECTIONS. YOU HAVE AUGUST PRIMARIES LIKE WE RECENTLY HAD IN 2024 WITH A TURNOUT ABOUT 20% OR SO. THE TURNOUT IN THE LAST GOVERNOR'S ELECTION WAS 50%. ABOUT 60% I BELIEVE IT WAS IN 2018. IF I MAY JUST VERY QUICKLY -- >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: 30 MORE SECONDS. >>LUIS VIERA: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. CHAIR. AGAIN, I RESPECT THAT THERE'S NOT SUPPORT TO CHANGE THIS ON TAMPA CITY COUNCIL RIGHT NOW. BUT THIS ISSUE IS NOT GOING AWAY BECAUSE EVERY SINGLE ELECTION CYCLE WHERE WE SPEND HALF A MILLION TO THREE-QUARTERS OF A MILLION FOR LESS DIVERSE, MORE AFFLUENT ELECTIONS, THAT ISSUE WILL NOT GO AWAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: COUNCIL MEMBER CLENDENIN WAS FIRST. COUNCIL MEMBER MIRANDA, COUNCIL MEMBER CARLSON. >>ALAN CLENDENIN: THIS ISSUE SHOULD GO AWAY BECAUSE A COUPLE OF POINTS YOU MAKE, COUNCILMAN VIERA, THE COST OF THE ELECTION, THAT IS WHAT IT IS, BUT WE'RE STILL GOING TO HAVE TO REIMBURSE THE SUPERVISOR FOR WHATEVER PORTION OF THE COST. THEY ARE NOT GOING TO DO OUR PORTION FOR FREE. IT WOULD BE WITH DISINGENUOUS TO COMPARE APPLES AND ORANGES WITHOUT FACTORING THAT PART INTO IT AS WELL. TURNOUT. ALSO DISINGENUOUS TO COMPARE COUNTY TO CITY. HAVE TO BREAK IT DOWN AND SEE THE FACTS AND FIGURES, ESPECIALLY PRIMARY ON ODD YEAR OR OFF YEAR OR PRESIDENTIAL YEAR. THERE ARE A LOT OF FACTORS IN THIS. THERE IS NOTHING MORE IMPORTANT THAN LOCAL GOVERNMENT. YOUR COUNCIL AND YOUR MAYOR IS CLOSEST TO THE SERVICES AND TO THE PEOPLE OF WHAT RUNS THE CITY THAN ANY OTHER FORM OF GOVERNMENT. I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYBODY UP HERE WHO WOULD ARGUE THAT THE DAILY IMPACT THAT THE CITY GOVERNMENT HAS ON FOLKS' LIVES FAR EXCEEDS THE IMPACT THAT STATE LEGISLATURE, EVEN THE GOVERNOR OR THE PRESIDENCY HAS ON ANYBODY'S DAY-TO-DAY LIFE OF HOW THEY DO THEIR BUSINESS AS A CITIZEN OF THE CITY OF TAMPA. THAT IMPORTANCE, I THINK HAVING AN ELECTION WHERE WE STAND BEFORE THE PEOPLE AND THE ONLY ISSUES BEFORE THEM IS THE RUNNING OF THE CITY IS REALLY, REALLY IMPORTANT. HAVING AN ELECTION LIKE THAT AND HAVING IT PRIORITIZED SO THAT WE CAN SIT THERE -- YOU KNOW, THERE'S NOTHING MORE GRASSROOTS THAN RUNNING, AS YOU DISCUSSED ABOUT THE MONEY. THERE'S NOTHING MORE GRASSROOTS THAN RUNNING FOR CITY COUNCIL. YOU'RE SITTING THERE MEETING WITH SIX PEOPLE OR TWO DOZEN PEOPLE, BUT YOU'RE TALKING TO PEOPLE ONE ON ONE. TALKING TO SMALL GROUPS OF FOLKS AND MANY OF OUR RACES RUN FOR MONTHS. SOME PEOPLE'S RACES RUN FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS TO RUN FOR CITY COUNCIL OR EVEN MAYOR. WHEN YOU'RE COMPETING FOR THAT MESSAGE FOR A STATE OR NATIONAL STAGE, BECAUSE OF THE SEXINESS OF ALL THOSE ISSUES AND BECAUSE OF THE MONEY INVOLVED IN GUBERNATORIAL RACES OR PRESIDENTIAL RACES, WE GET DROWNED OUT. THE ISSUES BEFORE THE CITY OF TAMPA WOULD GET COMPLETELY WASHED AWAY. RIGHT NOW WITH WHAT WE'RE DEALING WITH TODAY, IF YOU THINK WE WERE STANDING ON THIS NOVEMBER BALLOT THAT ANYBODY WOULD BE PAYING ATTENTION TO CITY COUNCIL RACES? NO. COULD YOU RECRUIT, IF YOU WERE A GRASSROOTS CANDIDATE AND WANTED TO RUN FOR CITY COUNCIL, GOOD LUCK TRYING TO FIND ONE VOLUNTEER TO PUT YOUR YARD SIGNS IN A YARD THAT ISN'T GOING TO VOLUNTEER FOR A PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE. WE WOULD BE DROWNED OUT. YOU COULDN'T GET ANYBODY TO VOLUNTEER BECAUSE THE SEXINESS. WHETHER IT'S RIGHT OR WRONG, IT IS JUST THE REALITY THAT WE WOULD HAVE TO DEAL WITH. SO WHILE I APPRECIATE THE THOUGHT, I THINK THAT THE AMOUNT OF TIME AND ATTENTION WE SPEND ON CITY COUNCIL ELECTIONS IS WELL SPENT. I THINK THERE IS A REASON WE'RE HERE WHERE WE ARE TODAY, AND IT'S NOT BROKE, DON'T TRY TO FIX WE HAVE AN INFORMED ELECTORATE. WHEN WE GO OUT TO VOTE IN THE CITY ELECTIONS, WE HAVE SPOKEN WITH THE PEOPLE. MOST PEOPLE HAVE ACTUALLY HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO SEE US FACE TO FACE BEFORE THEY COME TO THE MARCH ELECTIONS TO VOTE FOR US. AND THAT IS A RARE PRIVILEGE IN THIS COUNTRY THAT MOST PEOPLE IN THIS WORLD DON'T ENJOY. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: COUNCIL MEMBER MIRANDA, CARLSON. >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: THANK YOU. IT'S AGREEABLE ON BOTH SIDES WHAT MR. CLENDENIN SAID, WHAT MR. VIERA SAID. I FIRST GOT ELECTED IN '74. NO, I'M NOT 110, BUT I'M OVER 80. SO LET ME SAY THIS. I REMEMBER THE SYSTEM THAT WE TALKED ABOUT, WE HAD. AND THAT WAS A SYSTEM WHEN YOU WENT ON THE BALLOT THAT YOU WERE RUNNING AGAINST THE BIG BOYS AND THE BIG GIRLS. HAD TO RUN AGAINST STATE OFFICIALS AND PEOPLE RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT. YOU WEREN'T ON TOP OF THE BALLOT, YOU WERE ON THE THIRD PAGE OF THE BALLOT. BY THE TIME THEY GET TO YOU, THEY WERE TIRED OF PUNCHING. YOU DIDN'T HAVE EARLY VOTING, YOU DIDN'T HAVE VOTE BY MAIL. YOU HAD ONE DAY TO VOTE AND THAT'S A PROBLEM. IF WE GOT LAZY, IT WAS TOO SIMPLE AND NOBODY GAVE A DAMN ABOUT GOING TO VOTE. THAT IS THE PROBLEM WE HAVE IN THIS COUNTRY. THE MORE SIMPLER YOU MAKE IT, THE HARDER IT IS TO SHOW UP. IT IS A SHAME THAT THIS COUNTRY UNDER THE SYSTEM WE HAVE WITH EARLY VOTING, BY THE WAY, AT THAT TIME, THEY WOULD PAY TO MAIL TO YOUR HOUSE. AT THAT TIME, YOU HAD TO PAY BACK TO THE HOUSE. SEND IT BACK. DIDN'T SEND YOU AN ENVELOPE WITH PREPAID POSTAGE. NUMBER TWO, YOU COULD ONLY VOTE EARLY IF YOU WERE OUT OF THE COUNTRY OR IN THE HOSPITAL. NOW, YOU SEND SOMETHING OUT OF THE COUNTRY AND YOU THINK IT WILL GET BACK WITHIN 14 DAYS SIGNED, WE'VE GOT A PROBLEM. IT WAS ALL CHANGED TO FIX THE SYSTEM. IF YOU GO BACK FROM THEN ON, STARTED GOING DOWN, DOWN, DOWN, AND I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THIS COUNCIL ASK FOR ANALYTICAL STUDIES FROM THE '60s WHEN THERE WAS NOTHING LIKE THAT ON WHAT PERCENT VOTED. WHEN I FIRST RAN FOR OFFICE, THE VOTE WOULD BE 40% TURNOUT. NOW IT'S IN THE TEENS. THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MONEY. HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SYSTEM. THE SYSTEM HAS BEEN CHANGED VARIOUS TIMES TO FACILITATE THE VOTERS WHO GO OUT. AND THEY ARE NOT GOING OUT. THIS ELECTION FOR THE PRESIDENCY, BECAUSE THERE'S SO MUCH CHANGE IN PHILOSOPHY ON HOW TO RUN A GOVERNMENT, I THINK YOU'LL HAVE A FANTASTIC TURNOUT BECAUSE BOTH SIDES ARE ANGRY AT EACH OTHER. EITHER GOING THIS SIDE OR THAT SIDE AND VERY FEW IN THE MIDDLE. WHAT I'M SAYING IS, THE TURNOUT, IF YOU DO WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NOW WITHOUT DOING AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF THE BIG PICTURE, AFFECTED BIG TURNOUT IN STATE ELECTIONS AND FEDERAL ELECTIONS OR JUST THE CITY THAT'S GETTING LITTLE VOTERS. I GUARANTEE YOU THEY WILL ALMOST -- I HAVEN'T DONE THE STUDY -- THAT THEY WOULD LOOK ALMOST TO THE SAME AMOUNT OF IN THE FEDERAL, THE STATE, AND THE LOCAL. THE PROBLEM WITH THAT IS, WHEN YOU RUN IN A BIG ELECTION, LIKE A FEDERAL ELECTION OR A STATE ELECTION, YOU CAN'T JUST HIT 8,000, 9,000, 10,000 VOTERS. YOU'LL HAVE TO HIT 200,000 VOTERS. YOU'LL NEVER RAISE THE MONEY TO DO THAT BECAUSE IT IS IMPOSSIBLE BECAUSE THE BIG BOYS AND BIG GIRLS ARE TAKING ALL THAT OUT AND RIGHTLY SO, TO DO WHAT THEY DO. WHAT MR. CLENDENIN SAID IS CORRECT. THERE IS THE SIMPLEST AND MOST TO THE PUBLIC TOP OF VOTERS YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE INTERACTION WITH. YOU HAVE TO GO OUT AND KNOCK ON DOORS AND DO ALL THESE THINGS. GO TO PUBLIC HEARINGS, WHAT YOU WANT TO DO OR DONE IN THE PAST COMPARED TO WHAT YOU'RE DOING NOW. ALL THOSE THINGS THE ELECTORATE WANTS TO HEAR. YOU'LL NEVER HEAR THAT AGAIN IN A FEDERAL OR STATE ELECTION BECAUSE THERE'S NOT ENOUGH TIME. WHAT IS THE PHILOSOPHY OF THE OTHER PARTY OR NONPARTISAN PARTY AND THAT'S WHAT IT'S ALL ABOUT NOWADAYS. WHAT WE HAVE HERE, IF THE VOTER DOESN'T TURN OUT WITH EARLY MAIL, EARLY VOTING AND ELECTION DAY, SHAME ON THEM. WE'VE DONE ALL WE CAN DO TO FACILITATE THE VOTERS WHO COME OUT. FOR WHATEVER REASON, THEY ARE NOT COMING OUT. MAYBE THEY ARE FED UP WITH THE SYSTEM. I DON'T KNOW. BUT I'M TELLING YOU THAT THEY HAVE EVERY AVENUE, MUCH MORE HIGHER THAN 40%. IT'S A SHAME THAT A DEMOCRACY LIKE THIS COUNTRY STAYS HOME. THAT'S THE PROBLEM WE HAVE IN THIS COUNTRY. THANK YOU. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: COUNCIL MEMBER CARLSON AND MYSELF. >>BILL CARLSON: THERE IS NOT, DESPITE ARGUMENTS ON BOTH SIDES, THERE IS NO RIGHT OR WRONG ANSWER ON THIS ISSUE. IT'S NOT A CHOICE BETWEEN REPRESENTATION OR NO REPRESENTATION OR DISENFRANCHISING PEOPLE OR REPRESENTING THEM. IT IS A PHILOSOPHICAL DIFFERENCE. MY VIEW IS THAT THE CITY OF TAMPA AND VOTERS OF TAMPA DESERVE TO HAVE THEIR OWN ELECTION. IT'S IMPORTANT TO HIGHLIGHT THE ISSUES OF TAMPA. HOW DO WE KNOW IT'S NOT A RIGHT OR WRONG ANSWER? I WENT TO GRADUATE SCHOOL SO THAT I COULD FIND THE ANSWER. I WANTED TO KNOW WHAT IS THE MATH I CAN DO TO FIND THE ANSWER? HAD I SAT IN CLASSES LIKE ONE OF THE ECONOMISTS I SAT IN WAS NAMED JEFFREY STACKS. I WATCHED HIM DO PAGES AND PAGES AND PAGES AND PAGES OF MATH. AT THE END OF IT, HE WOULD GET A DIFFERENT ANSWER THAN AN EQUALLY TRAINED ECONOMIST WITH A DIFFERENT POINT OF VIEW. AND THE DIFFERENCE IS THAT WE ALL START WITH THE FRAMEWORK, OR THE PHILOSOPHICAL FRAMEWORK THAT WE HAVE AND THAT BIASES ALL THE MATH WE DO. WE CAN PROVIDE ALL KINDS OF MATH AND DATA. I FOUND OUT THERE IS NOT A RIGHT OR WRONG ANSWER. IT IS A PHILOSOPHICAL DIFFERENCE. BOTH SIDES CAN SHOW INFORMATION. BUT IT'S NOT WHETHER WE WANT TO REPRESENT OR NOT. ON POLICY, THERE IS A DIFFERENCE IN THINGS THAT YOU TRY AND YOU SEE WHAT IT ENDS UP BEING. THE OTHER ISSUE IS CAMPAIGN MONEY WAS BROUGHT UP. I HELPED YOLIE CAPIN WITH HER ELECTION CAMPAIGN. I THINK SHE SPENT $40,000. I THINK GUIDO SPENDS THAT MUCH. LUCKY DOESN'T HAVE TO SPEND THAT MUCH TO GET ELECTED. LAST ELECTION COUNCILMAN VIERA MENTIONED MY ELECTION, I SPENT ABOUT 120 TO 150 THOUSAND. THE OTHER SIDE, COUNTING THE SOFT MONEY WE COULD FIND, I THINK MORE WE COULDN'T FIND, PROBABLY 850,000. LIKE 7 TO 1. AS BEST WE CAN TELL ABOUT A MILLION DOLLARS SPENT AGAINST LYNN HURTAK AND SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 100 TO 150 THOUSAND TO SPEND. WE SAW CRAZY AMOUNTS OF MONEY SPENT ON THE CAMPAIGN. LIKE YOU SAID, IT DIDN'T WORK. THE EXTRA MONEY DIDN'T WORK. IMAGINE IF WE WERE ON A CYCLE WHERE WE HAD TO COMPETE WITH THE PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGNS AND COUNTY COMMISSIONS AND OTHERS. THE BIG ISSUE NOT JUST WE HAVE TO RAISE MORE MONEY TO GET THROUGH THE CLUTTER, NOBODY WOULD HEAR ABOUT THE CITY ISSUES, BUT WE WOULD HAVE TO SPEND MORE MONEY BECAUSE THEY WERE BUYING UP ALL THE MEDIA. THE OTHER THING IS, WHY -- WE LOOKED AT DATA PEOPLE CIRCULATED ABOUT THE LOW VOTER TURNOUT. BUT THE VOTE IS PARTLY DEPENDENT ON THE TOP OF THE TICKET. HOW MY MIRANDA MENTIONED THERE IS A LOT OF EXCITEMENT ABOUT THE TWO PEOPLE AT THE TOP OF THE TICKET THIS TIME. IF THERE'S EXCITEMENT ABOUT THE GOVERNOR'S RACE, THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE EXCITED ABOUT IT. IN THIS CASE, THE MAYOR DID NOT HAVE AN OPPONENT. IF THE MAYOR DOESN'T HAVE AN OPPONENT, PEOPLE AREN'T GOING TO SHOW UP. THEY ARE NOT AS EXCITED ABOUT IT. NOT AS EXCITED ABOUT CITY COUNCIL AS THEY ARE VOTING FOR MAYOR. DESPITE THE FACT MAYOR HAD NO OPPONENT, 40 PERCENT OF PEOPLE WHO VOTED FOR COUNCIL EITHER DID NOT VOTE FOR MAYOR AT ALL. THEY CHOSE TO VOTE FOR NO ONE, OR THEY WROTE SOMEBODY ELSE'S NAME IN. THAT'S ALSO A SIGNAL THAT PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY ARE SMART. THEY ARE MAKING CHOICES. IF THEY DON'T LIKE THE CHOICES, THEY'LL SKIP VOTES AND VOTE ON THE ONES THEY WANT. WE KNOW PEOPLE SKIP VOTES DOWN BALLOT, ANOTHER ISSUE. DOWN BALLOT FATIGUE. THE MORE YOU HAVE ON A BALLOT, THE LESS PEOPLE MIGHT BE ABLE TO PAY ATTENTION TO IT. I THINK OF MYSELF AS BEING PRETTY INVOLVED, BUT KNOWING ALL THE JUDGES THAT ARE RUNNING, ALL THE AMENDMENTS, ALL THE CHARTER AMENDMENTS, IT'S REALLY DIFFICULT TO KNOW ALL OF THAT. I THINK IT'S HELPFUL TO SPLIT IT AMONG A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT ELECTIONS. THE OTHER THING IS WE FIND WE ARE A NONPARTISAN RACE BUT STILL OUR RACES BECAME SOMEWHAT PARTISAN, SHOULDN'T HAVE BUT THEY DID. AND IF WE WERE RUNNING NOW, WE WOULD BE RUNNING IN A HIGHLY PARTISAN ENVIRONMENT. WHAT WOULD HAPPEN, PEOPLE WOULD GO DOWN THE TICKET AND THE PARTIES WOULD BE IDENTIFYING PEOPLE BASED ON THEIR PARTY AFFILIATION AND PEOPLE WOULD VOTE BY PARTY. IF YOU ARE A DIFFERENT PARTY THAN ANY OF THE FOLKS HERE, YOU MIGHT LIKE ELECTION DURING THE PRESIDENTIAL, GUBERNATORIAL RACE BECAUSE IT WOULD HELP WITH PEOPLE VOTING BIPARTISAN. THE OTHER THING IS I THINK CITY ISSUES DESERVE TO BE DISCUSSED. TOILET TO TAP WAS THE BIGGEST ISSUE OF OUR ELECTION. IT WOULDN'T BE NOW. BIKING WHILE BLACK WAS AN ISSUE. THAT WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN AN ISSUE. LAST THING I WANT TO SAY IS THAT I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING COUNCIL MEMBER MIRANDA SAID ABOUT OUR RIGHT AND RESPONSIBILITY TO VOTE. ONE OF THE REASONS WHY VOTING IS SO LOW IS BECAUSE IN THE UNITED STATES YOU HAVE THE FREEDOM TO VOTE OR NOT VOTE. IN THE UNITED STATES YOU HAVE THE FREEDOM TO VOTE OR NOT VOTE. THE COUNTRIES THAT HAVE VERY HIGH VOTING IT'S BECAUSE THEY FORCE TO YOU VOTE. THEY'LL FINE YOU OR THROW YOU IN JAIL IF YOU DON'T VOTE. IN THE UNITED STATES, WE DON'T REQUIRE THAT. THE PUBLIC IS SMART. THEY KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON AND THEY ARE CHOOSING NOT TO VOTE DESPITE ALL THE MONEY THAT THE PARTIES SPEND, ALL THE MONEY SPENT, THEY ARE CHOOSING NOT TO VOTE. THAT'S NOT THE FAULT OF WHEN IT IS. THE FOLKS AREN'T MOTIVATED. WE NEED TO DO A BETTER JOB OF GETTING THEM ENGAGED. THANK YOU. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I'VE DONE MY OWN ANALYSIS OVER THE LAST 15 YEARS. WHAT I LOOKED AT WAS, I FIRST RAN IN 2011 AND I LOST. I LOOKED AT WHY I LOST. I LOOKED AT VOTER TURNOUT AND THAT WAS A BIG MAYOR'S RACE. YOU HAD A FORMER MAYOR COMING BACK AND A LOT OF NEW CANDIDATES. ESTABLISHED ELECTED OFFICIALS. SO THERE WAS A LOT OF ENERGY BEHIND IT. BUT WHAT I NOTICED WAS MORE PEOPLE VOTED FOR MAYOR THAN THEY DID FOR THE THREE CITYWIDE CITY COUNCIL SEATS. IF IT WAS 10,000 VOTES FOR MAYOR, IT WAS 7500 -- I'M JUST THROWING NUMBERS OUT. BUT I GO WHY WOULDN'T THEY FINISH THE BALLOT? I REMEMBER HEARING PEOPLE SAYING I VOTED FOR GRECO, VOTED FOR THIS. AND THAT WAS IT. THEY DIDN'T FINISH THE BALLOT. THAT WAS ONE THING. NUMBER TWO, VOTER TURNOUT IN THIS LAST PRIMARY ELECTION, I TOOK MY WIFE TO THE WEST TAMPA LIBRARY TO VOTE EARLY AND I HAD OTHER FAMILY MEMBERS. LET'S GO VOTE. I'M DRIVING. LITERALLY DOWN THE STREET. NO, NOT GOING TO VOTE. TWO FAMILY MEMBERS, NOT GOING TO VOTE. WON'T NAME THEM. YOU COMPLAIN. YOU LOOK AT THE NEWS. YOU WANT YOUR VOICE TO BE HEARD AND AT THE END OF THE DAY YOU DON'T EVEN VOTE. SO THERE'S THAT. GETTING BACK TO A COUPLE OF THINGS I HEARD OVER THE YEARS, MAYBE COUNCIL MEMBER MIRANDA, YOU GOT ELECTED IN 1974, AND SOMETHING MAYOR GRECO SAID WHEN HE GOT ELECTED IN 1967, HE SAID VOTER TURNOUT IN THE CITY OF TAMPA WAS AROUND 60%. DIDN'T HAVE EARLY VOTE, VOTE BY MAIL. YOU HAD TO GO ELECTION DAY AND STAND IN LINE. HE WAS RUNNING AGAINST AN INCUMBENT AND BEAT THE INCUMBENT IN 1967. YOU'VE SEEN A GRADUAL DECREASE. THE MORE CONVENIENT WE MAKE IT, THE LESS PEOPLE VOTE, WHICH I DON'T UNDERSTAND. THEN VOTE BY MAIL. DON'T TRUST THE PROCESS. THEN TAKE YOUR BALLOT TO THE POLLING PLACE. NO, DON'T HAVE TIME TO DO THAT. IT'S ALWAYS SOMETHING. IT FEELS LIKE THE MORE RESTRICTIVE WAS MEANING YOU HAD TO VOTE ON ELECTION DAY, PEOPLE CAME OUT TO VOTE. TAMPA WAS DIFFERENT. TAMPA WAS SMALLER. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE REASON IS. NOW WE HAVE SUCH QUICK ACCESS TO INFORMATION, NOT JUST THE MAILERS IN THE MAILBOX, BUT INUNDATED ON SOCIAL MEDIA. WE TALK ABOUT GETTING THE MESSAGE OUT THERE, SO MANY AVENUES. KNOCK ON DOORS, SEND MAILERS, COLLECT PETITIONS TO GET ON THE BALLOT. YOU PAY FOR A Facebook AD. SO MANY THINGS YET PEOPLE DON'T COME OUT TO VOTE. COUNCILMAN CARLSON BROUGHT UP A GOOD POINT, THE LAST CITY ELECTION WAS NOT COMPETITIVE FROM THE MAYORAL STANDPOINT BECAUSE THERE WAS NO OPPOSITION EXCEPT THE OPPORTUNITY TO WRITE IN SOMEBODY, SO THE ENERGY IS NOT THERE. LIKE I LIKE TO SAY, 90% OF THE PEOPLE COMPLAIN, 12% OF THE PEOPLE COME OUT TO VOTE. WE GET E-MAILS FROM PEOPLE. PEOPLE AT PUBLIC COMMENT, WE GET SO MANY THINGS BUT THEN AT THE BALLOT BOX, THE NUMBERS ARE DISMAL. AND NOT EVEN TO SAY, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE THAT ARE LOOKING TO HAVE THEIR RIGHTS RESTORED TO VOTE. THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT WANT TO VOTE THAT CAN'T VOTE BECAUSE OF STATE LAW, BECAUSE OF SO MANY OTHER THINGS. THE FOLKS THAT ARE ABLE TO VOTE I THINK THEY TAKE IT FOR GRANTED. THE ISSUES THAT AFFECT PEOPLE THE MOST, PEOPLE ASK ME, WHY DO YOU RUN FOR CITY COUNCIL AND NOT ANY OTHER OFFICE? BECAUSE IF YOUR STREET FLOODS, IF THE TRASH IS NOT PICKED UP, IT'S GOING TO AFFECT YOU TODAY. IF THE PRESIDENT SAYS SOMETHING, NOT GOING TO BE AS EFFECTIVE. GOVERNOR SAYS SOMETHING, NOT AS EFFECTIVE AT WHAT HAPPENS AT THE LOCAL MUNICIPAL LEVEL. YET YOU WOULD THINK SINCE IT AFFECTS PEOPLE THE MOST, MORE PROMINENTLY, THAT MORE PEOPLE WOULD VOTE. THINK 60, 70, 80 PERCENT VOTER TURNOUT, BUT YOU DON'T. IN REGARDS TO THE MONEY THING AND BEING ON A LONGER BALLOT AND COMPETING WITH OTHER FUND-RAISING, I'VE NEVER RAISED A LOT OF MONEY. IN THE LAST CAMPAIGN, I TRIED NOT TO SPEND ANYTHING EXTRA. I DIDN'T HIRE CONSULTANTS. I THINK I PAID ONE PERSON TO VOLUNTEER -- PAID THEM TO GO DOOR TO DOOR, BUT I HAD MONEY LEFT OVER AND GAVE IT TO CHARITABLE ORGANIZATIONS. IT'S NOT ABOUT THE MONEY BECAUSE I'VE NEVER RAISED MONEY LIKE OTHER PEOPLE.% THAT'S WHY, YOU KNOW, RUNNING FOR OTHER OFFICE I'VE NEVER RAISED A HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS. I THINK THE MOST WAS THIS LAST ELECTION CYCLE WHEN I GAVE A THIRD OF THAT TO CHARITY. I DON'T KNOW. THE THING IS, WHY DON'T PEOPLE VOTE? WHY DON'T PEOPLE VOTE? IT'S EXCITING TO ME. I'M NOT A BIG SPORTS PERSON. MY SUPER BOWL IS ELECTION DAY. I LOVE WATCHING THE DATA. I LOVE LISTENING TO SEE HOW THE TURNOUT IS. BECAUSE, AGAIN, THESE ARE ISSUES THAT AFFECT US. CITY OF TAMPA, I MEAN, I COULD -- I KNOW I HAVE FIVE MINUTES, BUT I COULD GO ON AND ON AS TO THE THINGS THAT AFFECT PEOPLE THE MOST AND WHY IT'S SO IMPORTANT AT THE MUNICIPAL LEVEL. I'LL STOP THERE. COUNCIL MEMBER HENDERSON? NO. VIERA. >>GWEN HENDERSON: I'LL SAY A LITTLE BIT. LISTENING TO YOU ALL, JUST THINKING BACK TO THE $20,000, I THINK $24,000 I RAISED, WHICH WAS VERY DIFFICULT AND I FELT LIKE THAT WAS A LOT OF MONEY. I DIDN'T REALLY WANT PEOPLE TO HAVE TO GIVE A LOT OF MONEY. SO I HAD TO USE IT WISELY. I THINK THAT ALSO ELIMINATES PEOPLE FROM WANTING TO RUN FOR OFFICE IS THAT IT DOES COST MONEY TO CAMPAIGN AND TO PUT PEOPLE OUT THERE.% MY SMALL SEVEN MEMBER TEAM AND $24,000 GOT THE JOB DONE FOR ME AND I FEEL FORTUNATE. IF IT WAS A LARGER RACE, I THINK IT WOULD ALL BE LOST IN TRANSLATION TO ALL THE OTHER ELECTIONS THAT ARE BIGGER THAN LOCAL GOVERNMENT. SO I'D LIKE THE PROCESS THE WAY IT IS. ALSO, ONE OF THE THINGS I LIKED WAS IT WAS A SHORT ELECTION CYCLE. IT DOESN'T TAKE RUNNING FOR OFFICE FOR A YEAR OR TWO YEARS, EVEN THOUGH SOME PEOPLE SAID I SHOULD GET STARTED ON THE SECOND ELECTION. I JUST THINK IT'S OKAY THE WAY THAT IT IS. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: COUNCILMAN VIERA. >>LUIS VIERA: THANK YOU, EVERYBODY, FOR YOUR THOUGHTS. IN CLOSING FOR ME, AGAIN, OUR ELECTION AS WE SET UP RIGHT NOW, WE DON'T HEAR FROM TAMPA. WE DO NOT HEAR FROM OUR CITY OF TAMPA WHEN IT COMES TO RACES. A COUPLE OF QUICK THINGS, IF I MAY. IN 2019, WE HAD I THINK IT WAS A 24% MAYORAL TURNOUT. THE TURNOUT FOR THE GUBERNATORIAL ELECTION THE YEAR BEFORE THAT WAS ABOUT 61%. THE TURNOUT FOUR YEARS LATER WAS ABOUT 51% I BELIEVE IT WAS IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY. I RAN AGAIN IN 2019 IN A PRESIDENTIAL RACE. WE HAD SIX PEOPLE IN DISTRICT 7, THE SLEEPY DISTRICT, A LOT OF PEOPLE GO OUT AND WE GOT A LOT OF PROMOTION. WE HAD A LOT OF DIFFERENT CAMPAIGN EVENTS, ET CETERA. I DON'T WANT THIS, IF I HAD MY WAY, TO BE ON PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS. I WOULD RATHER HAVE IT ON GUBERNATORIAL. I THINK THAT IS A VERY GOOD BALANCE. ONE THING I DO WANT TO MAKE CLEAR, BY THE WAY, WE ARE CHARGED BETWEEN 500 AND $700,000 FOR THESE ELECTIONS. YOU KNOW HOW MUCH WE WOULD GET CHARGED IF WE DID IT IN EVEN-YEAR ELECTIONS? ZERO. ZERO. ZERO DOLLARS. WE'VE CONFIRMED THAT WITH THE SUPERVISOR OF ELECTIONS. WE WOULD GET CHARGED NOTHING FOR THAT. AGAIN, WE SPEND BETWEEN HALF A MILLION TO THREE-QUARTERS OF A MILLION DOLLARS EVERY ELECTION CYCLE FOR AN ELECTION WHERE FEWER PEOPLE TURN OUT. I DISAGREE, TOO, THAT THIS WOULD BENEFIT ONE PARTY OR THE OTHER. IN FACT, I'LL TELL YOU WHAT, TAKE A LOOK AT PRECINCTS 338, 308, 309, 321, 325 WHERE THE CUTOFF WAS ABOUT 20 POINTS HIGHER THAN BAYSHORE AND TAMPA PALMS AND SEE WHO THEY VOTED FOR PRESIDENT. OKAY. THAT'S ALL I'M GOING TO SAY. I THINK THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WOULD ACTUALLY MAKE OUR ELECTIONS MORE DIVERSE AND MORE LOOK LIKE TAMPA BECAUSE AGAIN, RIGHT NOW, WE DON'T HEAR FROM TAMPA. AGAIN, I RESPECT FOLKS' OPINIONS ON THIS, ET CETERA. SO WHAT I SUGGEST THAT WE DO IS I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO MAKE A MOTION FOR IT. BUT IS TO WORK WITH THE CITY OF TAMPA TO SEE 2027 IS A LONG TIME AWAY, TO SEE WHAT WE CAN DO IN 2027 TO BETTER PROMOTE OUR CITY ELECTIONS. I BELIEVE THAT ALL WE DO IS SOME Facebook ADS, I THINK, AND THAT'S IT. JUST A Facebook POST. THERE SHOULD BE MORE TO GET PEOPLE OUT THERE. IF COUNCIL ISN'T GOING TO BE LOOKING AT THIS, THAT'S FINE. 110%. PEOPLE CAN DISAGREE. WE SHOULD LOOK AT OTHER THINGS BECAUSE RIGHT NOW, AGAIN, WE DON'T HEAR FROM THE PEOPLE OF TAMPA. BY THE WAY, CHAIRMAN MANISCALCO, ON THE VOTING THING, I AGREE WITH YOU. THAT'S MY SUPER BOWL. I HAVEN'T BEEN IN THE SPORT SINCE 1990 BASEBALL. GOT OUT OF IT DURING THE STRIKE, UNFORTUNATELY. I REGRET THAT ACTUALLY. BUT THE DAY I TURNED 18, I WENT TO REGISTER TO VOTE AND IT WAS A PATRIOTIC THING FOR ME TO DO. I KNOW WE ALL AGREE THAT'S WHY WE'RE IN OFFICE. AGAIN, WE HAVE TO LOOK AT OTHER ALTERNATIVES BECAUSE RIGHT NOW WE DON'T HEAR FROM TAMPA. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: COUNCIL MEMBER MIRANDA AND CLENDENIN. >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I THINK THIS HAS BEEN A VERY GOOD DISCUSSION ON EVERYTHING THAT'S GOING ON. IN FACT, THE AMOUNT OF CANDIDATES THAT COME OUT TO SEEK OFFICE HAS GONE DOWN. I REMEMBER BACK IN THOSE DAYS, IT WASN'T FOUR OR FIVE CANDIDATES OR TWO CANDIDATES IN ONE RACE. THE LAST RACE I RAN IN THE COUNTY THERE WAS EIGHT OR NINE OF US. IN FACT, THE 1972, THAT'S WHEN THAT HAPPENED. I WENT TO REGISTER TO VOTE -- I MEAN, REGISTER TO SEEK OFFICE AND THE QUALIFYING FEE WAS $900. AND I HAD THE CHECK MADE OUT FOR $900 AND ASKED THE GENTLEMAN, I SAID LET ME ASK YOU THIS. IF -- CAN I RUN FOR OFFICE WITHOUT PAYING QUALIFYING FEE? NO SORRY. I CAN -- I CAN VOTE FOR EVERYBODY ELSE THAT QUALIFIES BUT IF I WANT TO BE THE CANDIDATE, I HAVE TO PAY $900 TO VOTE FOR MYSELF. YEAH, THAT'S THE LAW. I SAID, OKAY, THANK YOU. NOT BECAUSE OF ME. IT WAS BECAUSE OF MY WIFE, THE FEDERAL JUDGE GAVE ME FOUR DAYS TO GET 3,000 SIGNATURES OF REGISTERED VOTERS AND PUT ME ON THE BALLOT FOR NOTHING. 4200 IN TWO DAYS WITH HER FRIENDS. IN FACT, BETTY CASTOR WON THE RACE. CHARLIE MIRANDA WAS THIRD. ABOUT FOUR OR FIVE OTHERS IN THE RACE. SO THERE'S WHY I LEARNED A LOT. IF YOU REALLY WANT TO LEARN ABOUT POLITICS, YOU LEARN WHEN YOU LOSE, NOT WHEN YOU WIN. YOU LEARN WHERE THE VOTE COMES FROM. LEARN IN THE COUNTY I GOT MY BUTT KICKED FROM HERE TO ARIZONA AND BACK BUT IN THE CITY I DID QUITE WELL. '74 I RAN FOR OFFICE. YOU HAVE TO LEARN IT IS A PROCESS. YOU CAN'T GO FROM HIGH SCHOOL TO THE MAJORS, MAYBE ONE OR TWO INDIVIDUALS HAVE DONE THAT, IN ANY SPORT. BUT YOU CAN DO THAT IN POLITICS OR SEEK AN OFFICE IF YOU HAVE ENOUGH FRIENDS AND ENOUGH FAMILY WITH YOUR SUPPORT. THAT'S ALL I'LL SAY. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: YOU LEARN WHEN YOU LOSE. I LOST IN 2011 AND I STUDIED THE NUMBERS AND I SAID, BECAUSE I RAN IN '15 FOR YOUR SEAT, IT WAS VACANT. I SAID THIS IS HOW MANY VOTES I NEED. I CAME WITHIN 60 VOTES OF MY GUESSTIMATE. YEAH, STUDY THE DATA. >>ALAN CLENDENIN: I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS AND THAT IS JUST PONTIFICATION, PART OF THE REASON WHY OUR ELECTION TURNOUT IS SO LOW IS, ONE, THINGS ARE PRETTY GOOD IN THE CITY OF TAMPA. WE LIVE IN A GREAT CITY. LIVE IN A GREAT PLACE. PEOPLE ARE GENERALLY HAPPY. IF PEOPLE ARE UNHAPPY, THEY WOULD BE BEATING THE DOORS DOWN TO BOOT US ALL OUT. I THINK GENERALLY WE LIVE IN A GREAT CITY. THESE ARE THE GOOD TIMES. THESE ARE GOING TO BE THE GOOD OL' DAYS ONE OF THESE DAYS. SO I THINK THAT'S PART OF THE THING. COUNCILMAN VIERA, ONE THING I WOULD CAUTION ABOUT, THE CITY GETTING INVOLVED TOO MUCH IN THE ELECTORAL PROCESS IS THUMB ON THE SCALE. YOU HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT THAT. REALLY IT IS THE CANDIDATE'S RESPONSIBILITY TO MOTIVATE THE VOTERS AND GET THEM OUT TO VOTE AND THE MESSAGE WE BRING. YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE WHEN DEALING WITH THE BIG POCKETS OF GOVERNMENT THAT THEY DON'T PUT THE THUMB ON THE SCALE OF ELECTIONS. >>LUIS VIERA: THAT'S WELL TAKEN IN THE SENSE THAT I DON'T KNOW WHAT IF ANYTHING THE COUNTY DOES FOR THAT. THAT'S WHY I'M NOT MAKING A MOTION BECAUSE I WANT TO LOOK BEHIND. NO, OBVIOUSLY, WHEN ANY PUBLIC ENTITY GETS INVOLVED IN ENCOURAGING ELECTIONS, YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE IT IS AS OBJECTIVE AND TRANSPARENT AS POSSIBLE. THAT'S WHY I'M NOT MAKING ANY MOTION. YEAH, I DON'T DISAGREE WITH THAT. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. AT THIS TIME, WE'LL GO TO PUBLIC COMMENT, IF THERE'S NOTHING FURTHER. WOULD ANYBODY LIKE TO SPEAK ON THIS ITEM, ITEM NUMBER 2? >> AMIRA OPSLE. SORRY, VERY DIFFICULT TO SIT AND LISTEN TO THIS. I DO SPEAK. I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT WHEN I SPEAK. I HAVE MANY YEARS OF GRASSROOTS ACTIVISM AND ADVOCACY. MANY YEARS OF GET OUT THE VOTE WORK. Ph.D. IN POLITICAL SCIENCE. I TAUGHT ABOUT THIS. I FOLLOW THE RESEARCH. I ACTUALLY STUDIED ELECTIONS IN OTHER COUNTRIES. I HAVE A COMPARATIVE PERSPECTIVE. WHAT I SEE IN FRONT OF ME TODAY IS AN ELECTED BODY WHO IS PERFECTLY CONTENT TO BE AT THE TOP OF THE BALLOT WHEN 10% OF PEOPLE VOTE THAN BE AT THE BOTTOM WHEN 70% OF PEOPLE VOTE. SOME OF THE REASONS, THE IDEA THAT PEOPLE DON'T VOTE BECAUSE EVERYONE IS HAPPY, LET ME TELL YOU SOME OF THE REASONS YOU TALK ABOUT THE '70s, A LOT HAS CHANGED SINCE THE '70s. BACK IN THE '70s, THE DIFFERENTIAL BETWEEN WHAT PEOPLE MAKE AND WHAT IT COSTS TO LIVE IS A WHOLE LOT DIFFERENT THAN WHAT IT IS TODAY. TODAY, MANY PEOPLE, MAYBE THEY DON'T VOTE BECAUSE THEY ARE BUSY PAYING THE BILLS, BECAUSE RENT SKYROCKETS. THEY DON'T VOTE BECAUSE THEY SPEND AN INORDINATE AMOUNT OF TIME SITTING IN TRAFFIC BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE MASS TRANSIT. THE REASON WHY I CARE IS BECAUSE WHO IS ELECTED AND WHO THEY ARE ELECTED BY HAS A HUGE IMPACT ON POLICY OUTCOMES. THE CURRENT SYSTEM WE HAVE TODAY PROTECTS THE STATUS QUO. AND WHO VOTES. IT IS DISPROPORTIONATELY WHITE. IT IS DISPROPORTIONATELY OLDER. HERE'S WHAT MANY OF YOU ARE PROBABLY NOT AWARE OF. IT IS DISPROPORTIONATELY HOMEOWNERS. WHY DO YOU THINK WE DON'T GET THE CHANGES TO MAKE HOUSING MORE AFFORDABLE? BECAUSE WHETHER YOU REALIZE IT OR NOT, YOU ARE LISTENING MORE TO THE VOICES OF THE PEOPLE WHO YOU KNOW ARE GOING TO VOTE, AND IT IS DISPROPORTIONATELY THE STATUS QUO WHO IS WHITE, OLDER HOMEOWNERS. THEY WANT TO PROTECT WHAT THEY GOT. THEY ARE NOT FOR THE KINDS OF CHANGES THAT WILL MAKE THINGS MORE AFFORDABLE FOR OTHERS. I HONESTLY DIDN'T PLAN TO COME TODAY BECAUSE I KNOW HOW YOU WILL VOTE. ONE, MAYBE TWO OF YOU WHO ARE EVEN PONDERING SOME OF THE OTHER BUT I JUST IMPLORE YOU, KEEP AN OPEN MIND. FEEL FREE TO TALK TO ME. I CAN GIVE YOU ALL KINDS OF REASONS. I CAN TELL YOU WHY SO MANY OF THE THINGS YOU'VE SAID IS ABSOLUTELY WRONG. I ALSO KNOW WHO YOU GUYS TARGET WHEN YOU DO WORK ON GET OUT THE VOTE. WHO DO YOU TARGET? YOU APPEAL TO THE PEOPLE WHO YOU KNOW ARE GOING TO VOTE. NONE OF YOU DO ANYTHING TO INCREASE THE VOTER POOL. ALL YOUR GET OUT THE VOTE EFFORTS, WHICH IS VERY LITTLE DOOR KNOCKING IS FOCUSED ON THE PEOPLE WHO VOTED IN THE LAST CITY COUNCIL ELECTION. NOTHING CHANGES. STATUS QUO. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. NEXT SPEAKER. YES MA'AM. PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME. >> GOOD MORNING. STEPHANIE POYNOR. SANDY SANCHEZ SENT ME THIS TEXT. PEOPLE DO TELL YOU WHAT THEY THINK AND WHAT THEY WANT. AND SOME COUNCIL MEMBERS REFUSE TO LISTEN AND REACT. SO THEY FEEL LIKE VOTING IS A WASTE OF TIME. I THOUGHT THAT WAS A VERY INTERESTING POINT. I HAPPEN TO HAVE THIS WHEN I STUCK MY CALENDAR IN MY BAG THIS MORNING, THESE ARE THE VOTING RESULTS FROM THE LAST ELECTION A WEEK AGO, TWO WEEKS AGO. ANYWAY, WE HAD 190 VOTES AT THE GANDY CIVIC ASSOCIATION. I JUST LOOKED IT UP. THERE'S 4166 REGISTERED VOTERS FOR THAT PARTICULAR DISTRICT FOR OUR DISTRICT. THIS IS WHAT THEY PUT ON THE DOOR SO THAT THE NEWS STATIONS CAN COUNT THE VOTES. YOU KNOW, HERE'S WHAT I FEEL. IN THE 2023 ELECTION, I KNOW EXACTLY WHO I VOTED FOR, EVERY SINGLE SOLITARY PERSON. 2019 ELECTION I HAVE NO CLUE WHO I VOTED FOR. I'VE SAID THAT BEFORE. IT'S NOT ANYTHING NEW BECAUSE I WAS NOT INVOLVED AT ALL. BUT I'M GOING TO TELL YOU THIS, I HANDED OUT 3,000 SLATES THIS TIME. THAT'S 10% OF THE VOTE. I HIT THAT MANY HOUSES. NOW, DID I KNOW WHO WAS REGISTERED TO VOTE AND WHO WASN'T? NO. I WENT UP AND PUT IT ON THEIR DOOR AND GAVE THEM THE OPPORTUNITY TO VOTE AND TOLD THEM THESE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO I WANT TO BE ON COUNCIL. SO I THINK -- AND I STRUGGLE WITH THIS BECAUSE I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT PEOPLE LEARN WHO YOU ARE. BUT PART OF THE PROBLEM IS, THE CITY OF TAMPA DOES NOT RECOGNIZE THAT YOU EXIST. THE PR DEPARTMENT DOES NOTHING WITH YOU GUYS. WHEN THEY POST SOMETHING ON Facebook, NONE OF YOU ARE TAGGED. WHEN THEY POST SOMETHING ON NEXT DOOR, NONE OF YOU ARE TAGGED. HOW IN THE HELL IS ANYBODY GOING TO KNOW WHO YOU ARE WHEN THE CITY OF TAMPA DOESN'T RECOGNIZE THAT WE HAVE MORE THAN ONE ELECTED OFFICIAL? IT'S MAYOR CASTOR'S TREE GIVE AWAY. SORRY, BUT SHE DIDN'T BUY THE TREES. SHOULDN'T HAVE HER NAME ON IT. IT SHOULD BE THE CITY OF TAMPA. THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT WE HAVE TO TAKE THESE KIND OF THINGS INTO CONSIDERATION. IF YOU WANT MORE PEOPLE TO VOTE, THEN THE CITY SHOULD BE DOING THINGS WITH ALL OF YOU. JUST LIKE THE CIT. SHE SAT RIGHT HERE BEHIND ME WHEN I SAID IT OUT LOUD THEN. NOT ONE VIDEO HAS BEEN MADE WITH OUR CITY COUNCIL TO PROMOTE THE CIT BEING PASSED. YOU GUYS HAVE GOT TO PUSH IN ON THAT. I THINK THIS ELECTION THING, BREAKS MY HEART BECAUSE WHEN COUNCIL MEMBER VIERA IS TALKING ABOUT 500 TO 700 THOUSAND DOLLARS, YOU KNOW THAT MAKES ME TWITCH BECAUSE I THINK IT'S WASTEFUL. IN THIS PARTICULAR SITUATION, AS SOMEBODY WHO RECEIVED SIX WRITE-IN VOTES FOR MAYOR, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE FOCUS ON WHAT'S GOING ON LOCALLY AND THE FACT THAT WE ARE IN THE OFF YEARS, MAYBE THAT'S WHAT IS BEST FOR OUR CITY. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. NEXT SPEAKER, PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME. >> GOOD MORNING. STEVE MICHELINI. I WAS WITH THE CITY WHEN THEY CHANGED IT FROM NOVEMBER TO THE MARCH ELECTIONS. AND THE CITY COUNCIL AND THE MAYOR GOT TOGETHER AND DECIDED THAT THEY DIDN'T WANT TO BE ON THE DOWNSIDE OF THE BALLOT. IT WAS DIFFICULT RAISING MONEY FOR AN ELECTION AND GETTING VOLUNTEERS AND GETTING MATERIALS AND GETTING ON, IF YOU HAD MEDIA, WHETHER IT WAS TV OR RADIO. IT WAS SO DIFFICULT THAT THEY DECIDED THEY WANTED TO MOVE THE DATE. AND THAT WAS UNDER BOB MARTINEZ. AND THEY VOTED FOR THAT. I DON'T THINK THERE WERE ANY DISSENTING VOTES REGARDING THAT, BUT PERSONALLY, I CAN TELL YOU, AS MR. VIERA HAD POINTED OUT, THAT THE DAY I WAS ELIGIBLE TO VOTE I SIGNED UP AND I'VE BEEN VOTING FOR EVERY ELECTION, EVERY SPECIAL ELECTION, EVERY PRIMARY SINCE. I FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE THAT ANYBODY CAN FIND ONE ELECTION I DIDN'T VOTE IN. SO I GET ON THESE LISTS OF SUPER VOTERS AND THEY SEND ME EVERYTHING IN THE WORLD. I CONSIDER THAT A PRIVILEGE AND QUITE PROUD OF THE FACT THAT I VOTE THE ENTIRE BALLOT, NOT JUST PORTIONS OF THE BALLOT. I THINK IT IS CONFUSING. IT'S ALSO UP TO THE COMMUNITY TO GET OUT THE VOTE AND IT TAKES A LOT OF WORK TO DO THAT. IT'S NOT JUST THE COMMUNITY EFFORTS AND GRASSROOTS, WALKING THE NEIGHBORHOODS AND TELLING PEOPLE WHAT'S GOING ON. I CAN TELL YOU THAT FOR THE MOST PART IN EVERY ELECTION, MOST FOLKS DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT IT'S ABOUT. I DON'T HAVE AN EXPLANATION FOR THAT EXCEPT FOR THE FACT THAT THEY DON'T PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT'S GOING ON IN THEIR COMMUNITY. BUT LATER ON, WHEN AN ISSUE COMES UP, THEY ARE ALL DOWN HERE COMPLAINING TO YOU ABOUT SOME ISSUE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER AND YOU DIDN'T REPRESENT ME OR DIDN'T LISTEN TO ME. IT'S NOT NECESSARILY ALL YOUR FAULT, BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU COMMUNICATE TO THE COMMUNITY TO GET OUT AND EXERCISE YOUR RIGHT TO VOTE. AS MR. CARLSON POINTED OUT, IT'S A PRIVILEGE. YOU'RE NOT FORCED TO DO IT. YOU HAVE A CHOICE. EXERCISE IT. I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU EXERCISE FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY WITHOUT GETTING OUT AND VOTING. AND PEOPLE COME DOWN HERE. MAYBE ONE OF THE QUESTIONS YOU SHOULD ASK THEM, ARE YOU REGISTERED TO VOTE AND DID YOU VOTE IN THE LAST ELECTION? I THINK YOU'LL BE SURPRISED AND SHOCKED AT THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT, "OH, I FORGOT" OR "I DIDN'T GET IT DONE." OR "I THOUGHT YOU WERE GOING TO WIN ANYWAY SO I DIDN'T VOTE." THERE ARE ALL KINDS OF EXCUSES. I DON'T REALLY HAVE A POSITION ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, NOVEMBER VERSUS MARCH. AND WE DISCUSSED THIS YESTERDAY AT THE TBBA MEETING. EVERYONE IS WATCHING TO SEE WHAT YOU WANT TO DO AND WE'LL FOLLOW IN STEP. IT'S DIFFICULT UNDER THE BEST CIRCUMSTANCES TO GET PEOPLE TO VOTE. I'M NOT SURE HOW YOU SOLVE THAT. IT'S A MENTAL ISSUE AND COMMITMENT TO YOUR COMMUNITY. SIMPLY DOESN'T HAPPEN. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU. NEXT SPEAKER, PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME. >> MENTESNOT. IT'S A GREAT DISCUSSION. BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, CAPITALISM AND COLONIALISM DON'T HAVE TO GIVE YOU ANY INCENTIVE, ANY INITIATIVE, ANY ENTHUSIASM ABOUT PARTICIPATING IN THAT PROCESS BECAUSE IT WORKS JUST FINE. LIKE THE LADY SAID PREVIOUSLY, IT WORKS FINE FOR THE STATUS QUO. ALL THE PEOPLE BENEFITING FROM EXPLOITATION OF THE WORKING CLASS. IT'S A RULING CLASS SYSTEM. THE MARCH IN WASHINGTON IN 1963 HAD 250, 300 THOUSAND PEOPLE. THE MARCH IN WASHINGTON YESTERDAY HAD, THE ANNIVERSARY MARCH HAD, WHO KNOWS. WHO EVEN KNEW THERE WAS A MARCH IN WASHINGTON YESTERDAY? NOBODY. THE DYNAMICS HAVE CHANGED AND THE WHITE RULING CLASS IS TAKING FULL ADVANTAGE OF IT. FULL ADVANTAGE OF IT. NO ONE IS INSPIRED TO VOTE FOR ANY OF THE CLOWNS THAT THEY PUT FORTH BEFORE THEM. THEY DON'T TRY TO REGULATE THE MONEY GOING TO THE ELECTIONS. IN OUR PARTICULAR DISTRICT, DISTRICT FIVE, LET'S BRING IT BACK TO A LOCAL SITUATION, WE HAVE SOMEONE THAT'S REPRESENTING DISTRICT FIVE THAT NOBODY KNOWS. NOBODY KNOWS. IF YOU WENT TO DISTRICT FIVE RIGHT NOW AND SAY WHO IS YOUR REPRESENTATIVE FOR DISTRICT 5, 99% OF THE PEOPLE WOULDN'T KNOW. THEY PROBABLY WOULD SAY PERRY HARVEY OR REVEREND SCOTT. THEY WOULDN'T KNOW. AND THEY USE YELLOW JOURNALISM, DEROGATORY WORD ASSOCIATED TO ASIAN AND ORIENTAL PEOPLE, BUT WHAT IS CALLED YELLOW JOURNALISM, TO BRING OUR REPRESENTATIVE TO US AND THEY STUFF IT DOWN OUR THROATS. NOBODY KNEW WHO CURRENT REPRESENTATIVE WAS OR IS. NOBODY. ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY NOBODY. BUT THEY ATTACK AN AFRICAN MAN IN THE MOST HORRIFIC WAY TO GET THOSE RESULTS. SO PEOPLE AREN'T ENTHUSIASTIC ABOUT PARTICIPATING IN THAT. AND DO ANYBODY UP THERE KNOW WHO OFFSPRING IS? PROBABLY NOT. BUT OFFSPRING HAS A SONG SAY I WONDER WHY SHE SLEEPS WITH MY FRIENDS. AND YOU HAVE TO WONDER THAT. YOU DON'T HAVE TO WONDER A LOT WHY PEOPLE DON'T GO OUT AND VOTE. NO THAT SOME ABOUT IT. AS THE LADY SAY, THEY DON'T REACH OUT. THERE'S NO OUTREACH TO GET THE PEOPLE. THEY DON'T SPEAK OF ANY ISSUES, HOUSING, THE OTHER THINGS THAT DEALS WITH THE REAL PEOPLE. THEY SPEAK NOTHING OF IT. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SIR. COUNCIL MEMBER MIRANDA AND CARLSON. >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I JUST WANT TO SAY, IT CHANGED A LOT AND THINGS YOU DO -- PUBLIC WAY BACK. BY THE WAY, WHAT MR. MICHELINI WAS SPEAKIG ABOUT, THAT WAS THE MID '80s I BELIEVE IT WAS WHEN THEY CHANGED FROM GOING FULL CIRCLE TO HAVING YOUR OWN ELECTION. WHAT I'M GOING TO SAY IS WE USED TO HAVE SPAGHETTI DINNERS, FISH FRIES AND 2,000, 1500 PEOPLE WOULD SHOW UP. NOW YOU HAVE A FISH FRY TO BRING PEOPLE IN, THE FISH DOESN'T EVEN SHOW UP. PEOPLE HAVE A LOT MORE THINGS TO DO. A LOT MORE FAMILY. NEW CARS, THEY WANT TO GO EXPERIENCE A THING, GO TO THE BEACH. THAT'S FINE. ALL THAT IS WONDERFUL. BUT WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO VOTING DAY, THEY ARE TOO BUSY WITH THE FAMILY OR TOO BUSY FOR SOME OTHER REASON AND THEY ARE NOT SHOWING UP. MY FIRST ELECTION I WON AND NO ONE ELSE CAN WIN AT THE TIME, BECAUSE YOU CAN'T WIN CITYWIDE AT THAT TIME. EVERYTHING WAS CITYWIDE. DISTRICT 5 WAS CITYWIDE. SO THAT WAS CHANGED SO THAT EVERYBODY -- THAT WAS CHANGED ALSO TO '70s OR '80s, MID '80s I, I BELIEVE, RUN THREE AT-LARGE AND FOUR DISTRICTS. THAT WAS ALSO CHANGED. WE'RE NOT GOING BACK TO WHAT IT WAS BEFORE BECAUSE IT WAS NOT AN EQUAL ELECTION AND EVERYONE DIDN'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO GET ELECTED THE WAY IT WAS DONE. CHANGED FOR THE BETTERMENT. IS THIS THE BEST WAY? I DON'T KNOW. YOU ADVERTISE. THE CITY SPENDS MONEY. THE CANDIDATES PUT UP THEIR MONEY. COST OVER $3,000 JUST TO QUALIFY TO RUN FOR CITY COUNCIL UNLESS YOU GO OUT AND GET X AMOUNT OF NUMBER OF PEOPLE TO SIGN A BALLOT TO PUT YOU ON THE BALLOT FOR FREE. IT TAKES A LOT OF ENERGY FOR ANYONE TO RUN FOR OFFICE. MAYBE THAT IS A CRITERIA. I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS. USED TO BE A LOT MORE CITIZENS RUNNING FOR OFFICE AND LOT MORE VOTERS TURNING OUT. THAT'S ALL I CAN SAY. THANK YOU. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: COUNCIL MEMBER CARLSON. >>BILL CARLSON: YEAH, ONE OF THE THINGS I WAS REMINDED BY ONE OF THE COMMENTS IS THAT THE VOTER TURNOUT NUMBERS THAT EVERYBODY IS ■TALKING ABOUT, I DON'T KNOW WHAT DENOMINATOR YOU ALL USED, BUT USUALLY THE VOTER TURNOUT IS MEASURED BY THE PERCENTAGE OF REGISTERED VOTERS, NOT THE PERCENTAGE OF POPULATION THAT'S ELIGIBLE TO VOTE. TYPICALLY, IF YOU INCLUDE THE POPULATION ELIGIBLE, VOTER TURNOUT IS INCREDIBLY SMALL. HUMIRA SPOKE A LITTLE BIT ABOUT. FOLKS WHO COME TO SPEAK FROM THE COMMUNITY, THE FOLKS WATCHING ON TV DON'T ALWAYS KNOW WHAT THE BACKGROUND IS. HUMIRA HAS A DEEP BACKGROUND. HAS EDUCATION, OUT IN THE FIELD ALL THE TIME. SHE KNOWS THE HEART OF WHAT VOTERS ARE SAYING. I HAPPEN TO DISAGREE WITH HER ON THIS ISSUE. BUT I KNOW SHE KNOWS WHAT SHE'S TALKING ABOUT AND I RESPECT AND LOOK FORWARD TO HAVING MORE CONVERSATIONS WITH HER ABOUT IT AND OTHER FOLKS THAT MAY DISAGREE. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I WANTED TO MENTION IS THAT IN THIS LAST CAMPAIGN, THE OTHER THING THAT I THINK AFFECTED TURNOUT -- LET ME -- IN TERMS OF GETTING PEOPLE TO VOTE, SUPERVISOR OF ELECTIONS OFFICE SPENDS HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS A YEAR -- I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE CURRENT BUDGET IS -- YEARS AGO, SIX, EIGHT HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS EACH ELECTION TO GET PEOPLE OUT TO VOTE. REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRATIC PARTIES IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY SPENT PROBABLY TWO OR THREE HUNDRED THOUSAND IN THE LAST YEAR TO GET OUT THE VOTE. THEY FIND THOSE EFFORTS DON'T VOTE. THEY GO TO, PEOPLE SAY LET'S GET YOUNG PEOPLE INVOLVED. THEY GO TO SCHOOLS AND UNIVERSITY. AND THE TURNOUT IS TERRIBLE. THEY GO AND KNOCK ON DOORS AND TRY TO GET THE TURNOUT IS TERRIBLE. THE MORE MONEY THEY SPEND, THE RETURN ON IT IS NOT VERY GOOD. IN MY RACE, MY OPPONENT SENT TO ALL VOTERS, AND IT STILL DIDN'T INCREASE THE TURNOUT. MORE MONEY WAS SPENT AGAINST ME THAN ANYBODY EVER SPENT AND WENT TO ALL VOTERS AND STILL VOTERS DID NOT COME OUT. IT'S A COMMUNITYWIDE PROBLEM THAT'S NOT GOING TO BE SOLVED BY WHEN THE ELECTION IS. IT'S GOING TO BE SOLVED BY TRYING TO GET PEOPLE ENGAGED. THE OTHER THING WE KNOW IS PEOPLE ARE TURNED OFF BY NEGATIVE ADS. THREE OR FOUR OF THE CAMPAIGNS, I THINK AT LEAST A MILLION DOLLARS WAS SPENT ON NEGATIVE ADS. PEOPLE DON'T LIKE THAT. THEY WON'T SHOW UP TO VOTE IF THEY THINK IT'S ALL NEGATIVE. THEY GIVE UP AND SAY THEY DON'T WANT TO BE INVOLVED IN IT. WE'VE SEEN THAT NEGATIVE ADS DON'T WORK IN MOST OF THE CASES BUT PEOPLE STILL USE THEM. THERE'S LOTS OF MONEY BEING SPENT ON THEM. I'M HOPEFUL IN FUTURE CAMPAIGNS IT WON'T BE LIKE IT HAS BEEN IN THE LAST CAMPAIGN. MORE MONEY SPENT ON NEGATIVE ADS IN THE LAST CAMPAIGN THAN EVER. THE OTHER THING WE FIND IS BRUTE FORCE DOESN'T WORK. YOU TRY TO FORCE THE PUBLIC TO DO SOMETHING. THE PUBLIC IS SMART. THEY LISTEN. THEY STUDY ON THEIR OWN AND DECIDE WHAT THEY WANT TO DO. AND FOLKS TRY TO FORCE ISSUES. WHAT WE NEED IN OUR COMMUNITY NOW IS CONSENSUS. WE NEED PEOPLE TO STOP FIGHTING EACH OTHER AND STOP TRYING TO FORCE ISSUES AND INSTEAD FORM A DIALOGUE. EXAMPLE, BETWEEN THE DEVELOPERS AND THE NEIGHBORHOODS, THERE'S NO REASON WHY THE NEIGHBORHOODS AND DEVELOPERS CAN'T WORK TOGETHER. SEEN IT IN THE PAST WITH THE TREE ORDINANCES AND OTHER THINGS. NEED TO BRING EVERYBODY TOGETHER. TIME TO HEAL OUR COMMUNITY AND STOP THE NEGATIVE POLITICS, THE CONSTANT ATTACKS AND BRUTE FORCE. JUST BECAUSE SOMEBODY DOESN'T GET THEIR WAY DOESN'T MEAN SOMEBODY SHOULD GO ATTACK PEOPLE OVER AND OVER AGAIN. PICK UP THE PHONE AND CALL SOMEBODY. I RAN INTO DICK GRECO MAYBE A YEAR AGO, SAID I WOULD PICK UP THE PHONE AND CALL PEOPLE IF I DISAGREE. MY DOOR IS ALWAYS OPEN. WE ALL NEED THAT ATTITUDE TO MAKE SURE WE TALK WITH FOLKS. LAST THING, THE MEDIA IS REALLY IMPORTANT. UNFORTUNATELY, THE MEDIA IS SHRINKING EVERYWHERE IN THE UNITED STATES. I DON'T ALWAYS AGREE WITH IT AND DON'T ALWAYS WRITE POSITIVELY ABOUT ME, BUT THE MEDIA IS REALLY IMPORTANT FOR FOLKS TO GET EDUCATED AND WE NEED TO SUPPORT THE MEDIA. I WOULD SAY FOR THE FOLKS AT HOME, ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS YOU CAN DO IS TO POST LINKS ABOUT CITY COUNCIL MEETINGS, POST THEM ON YOUR SOCIAL MEDIA FEED. THE MORE YOU POST THOSE, THE MORE CLICKS THEY GET AND THE MORE THE EDITORS WILL ALLOW LOCAL REPORTERS TO WRITE ABOUT CITY COUNCIL. THE MORE THEY WRITE ABOUT CITY COUNCIL, THE MORE EVERYBODY WILL KNOW ABOUT OUR CITY AND HOPEFULLY TURNOUT WILL INCREASE. THANK YOU. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >>LUIS VIERA: THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. I WAS LAUGHING ABOUT SOMETHING, I THINK SOMETHING MR. MICHELINI SAID THAT REMINDED. GET SOMEBODY LIKE IN SUN CITY CENTER, EAST COUNTY, WHEREVER IT IS, THEY GO, HEY, VOTED FOR YOU. YOU'RE LIKE, NO, YOU DIDN'T. I GET THAT SOMETIMES AND I ALWAYS LAUGH. IT'S TOO FUNNY. ONE THING I DID WANT TO MENTION. I BRING UP MY 2016 RACE BECAUSE, AGAIN, I FAVOR GUBERNATORIAL NOT PRESIDENTIAL RACES. THAT RACE, TRUMP V. HILLARY IN THE BALLOT, CANDIDATES GOT IN A RACE IN JUNE OF 2016 WE RAISED OVER A QUARTER OF A MILLION DOLLARS ALL OF US. FUND-RAISING WAS NOT AN ISSUE. LEAVE YOU ALL WITH THIS. IN EVEN-YEAR ELECTIONS WE HAVE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS ON THE BALLOT. WE HAVE JUDGES ON THE BALLOT. JUDGES. WE HAVE THE SCHOOL BOARD ON THE BALLOT. MY SON IS IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS. THAT IS A BIG DEAL. MY QUESTION IS, WHAT MAKES THIS SO SPECIAL TO THE TUNE OF HALF A MILLION TO THREE-QUARTERS OF A MILLION DOLLARS IN TAXPAYER MONEY. THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING. AGAIN, I'M NOT GOING TO MAKE ANY MOTIONS ON THIS, BECAUSE I PROBABLY WON'T GET A SECOND. THERE YOU GO. THIS ISSUE IS NOT GOING AWAY BECAUSE OF THE LOW TURNOUT. WE CAN'T CONTINUE TO TURN AWAY FROM THIS ISSUE IN CITY OF TAMPA ELECTIONS. I REALLY APPRECIATE EVERYBODY'S FEEDBACK AND DISCUSSIONS AND HONEST DISCUSSIONS. I REALLY APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THAT CONCLUDES ITEM NUMBER 2. ITEMS 3, 4, 5 ARE CONNECTED. THESE ARE MOTIONS BY COUNCIL MEMBER CARLSON. I DARE TO ASK, CAN WE TAKE THEM ALL TOGETHER AND DO PUBLIC COMMENT AT ONCE? >> SO MOVED. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: WE HAVE A MOTION FROM COUNCIL MEMBER CLENDENIN. SECOND FROM COUNCIL MEMBER MIRANDA. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. ANY OPPOSED? COUNCIL MEMBER CARLSON, THE CITY ATTORNEY SENT OUT WRITTEN REPORTS FOR ALL THREE ITEMS. WOULD YOU LIKE TO START OFF THE DISCUSSION, SIR, SINCE IT WAS YOUR MOTION? >>BILL CARLSON: IS SOMEBODY FROM STAFF GOING TO PRESENT OR ARE YOU JUST ANSWERING QUESTIONS? LET ME JUST SAY THAT I APPRECIATE YOU ALL PUTTING -- MY COLLEAGUES FOR PUTTING THIS ON THE AGENDA. I APPRECIATE THE CHIEF OF STAFF AND LEGAL DEPARTMENT FOR WORKING TO TRY TO MAKE THIS A REALITY. THEY HAVE COME UP WITH A DRAFT ORDINANCE. I CAN TALK ABOUT EACH OF THESE INDIVIDUALLY BUT DO YOU WANT TO TALK FIRST? >>JOHN BENNETT: JOHN BENNETT, CHIEF OF STAFF. THANK YOU, COUNCILMAN CARLSON. OF COURSE, COUNCIL, FOR ALIGNING THESE AGENDA ITEMS. THEY WERE SPRINKLED INTO OTHER STAFF REPORTS, AND TO BRING THEM INTO THE WORKSHOP, STAFF APPRECIATES THAT OPPORTUNITY TO WORK WITH LEGAL. ALSO APPRECIATE THE ABILITY TO DISCUSS THEM IN SOME SORT OF ALIGNMENT. A COUPLE OF THEMES I WANT TO THROW OUT AND THEN COUNCIL'S PLEASURE WHETHER YOU WANT ADDITIONAL PRESENTATIONS OR JUST FEEDBACK FROM THE DRAFT ORDINANCES. THERE WERE TWO DRAFTS AND THEN A REQUEST TO DISCUSS, WHICH LED TO A THIRD DRAFT AND ACTUALLY A FOURTH DRAFT. I BELIEVE YOU HAVE FOUR DRAFTS IN FRONT OF YOU TODAY. I CAN TELL YOU OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS THAT I'VE BEEN BACK, THE THEME OF CONTINUOUS IMPROVEMENT IN PROCUREMENT HAS BEEN GOING ON IN SPACES LIKE CAD, EQUAL BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY AND, OF COURSE, PURCHASING. AND WITH COUNCIL SUPPORT, WE'RE TRYING TO MOVE AND STRIKE THE BALANCE BETWEEN MAKING SURE WE HAVE PLENTY OF OPPORTUNITY FOR VENDORS AND CONTRACTORS ON GOODS AND SERVICES AND CONSTRUCTION, AS WELL AS MAKING SURE THAT WE MEET THAT MANAGEMENT TRIANGLE OF RESOURCES, QUALITY, AND TIME WITH READY AND WILLING AND ABLE PARTNERS. SO THAT THEME YOU'LL SEE THROUGH THIS. THE OTHER THEME THAT YOU'RE GOING TO SEE IS THAT SOME OF OUR THRESHOLDS BECOME CHALLENGING WITH THE WORKLOAD. WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS STRIKE THE BALANCE OF RIGHT-SIZING OR UPDATING OR MODERNIZING SOME THRESHOLDS TO MEET THE LEVEL OF SERVICE WITHIN THE DEPARTMENTS. AND THROUGH THIS NEXT FISCAL YEAR, WE'RE PROBABLY GOING TO BE EXAMINING OUR SUPPORT DEPARTMENTS ACROSS THE BOARD BECAUSE WE TEND TO BRING RESOURCES TO COUNCIL AND THE PUBLIC TO GET TO THE FRONT LINES TO GET THE WORK DONE. WE'RE STARTING TO SEE A BIG STRAIN ON THE BEHIND THE SCENE OR INTERNAL WORKING DEPARTMENTS. SO SOME OF THOSE THEMES WILL COME OUT IN THAT. I'LL REST ON THOSE OPENIN COMMENTS. AGAIN, THANK YOU FOR BRINGING THESE TOGETHER. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: GO AHEAD, SIR. >>BILL CARLSON: THANK YOU, AGAIN, FOR ALL THE HARD WORK. YOU KNOW BECAUSE WE TALKED ABOUT SOME OF THIS PUBLICLY. WE WENT BACK AND FORTH PUBLICLY. WE HAD A LOT OF DISCUSSIONS PRIVATELY. MY ATTITUDE, WHICH I THINK STAFF AGREED WITH OR FINALLY AGREED WITH, JUST BECAUSE OTHER CITIES AREN'T DOING SOMETHING DOESN'T MEAN WE CAN'T BE THE INNOVATOR OR LEADER. I THINK THE IDEA HERE IS THAT WE WANT TO SHOW TRANSPARENCY TO THE PUBLIC. WE WANT TO SHOW THAT WE GOT COMPETITIVE BIDS. AND THE OUTCOME OF IT IS THAT WE'LL IDEALLY HAVE BETTER PRICES FOR PRODUCTS AND SERVICES. SO THAT WE'LL SAVE TAXPAYER MONEY. WE WON'T HAVE TO RAISE TAXES AND WE'LL BE ABLE TO USE MONEY IN OTHER RESOURCE. SAVING MONEY IS ONE GOAL. ANOTHER GOAL IS WE HEAR FROM VENDORS THEY WANT AN EQUAL CHANCE TO HAVE A CONTRACT. THEY DON'T WANT TO BE STUCK ON A LIST SOMEWHERE WHERE THEY ARE NEVER CALLED ON TO DO WORK OR NEVER GET A CHANCE TO BID ON SOMETHING. THE IDEA HERE IS TO MAKE SURE THAT'S CONSTANTLY MOVING. THE INITIAL FEEDBACK WE GOT WAS THE MORE COMPETITIVE BIDS WE GET THE MORE STAFF TIME IT WILL TAKE. MY PHILOSOPHY IS THAT THAT'S OKAY BECAUSE WE'RE GIVING MORE BUSINESSES OPPORTUNITIES AND HOPEFULLY THE NET IS WE'RE SAVING MONEY ACROSS ALL THOSE PRODUCTS. BUT THE COMPROMISE WAS, FOR EXAMPLE, ON NUMBER THREE, HAVING THREE BIDS INSTEAD OF MAKING IT FOR ALL CONTRACTS, THE COMPROMISE WE TALKED ABOUT SETTING AT 5 MILLION ABOVE. THAT IS A MINORITY OF CONTRACTS. BUT IT'S BIG ENOUGH THAT IT ALLOWS US TO PUT THE STAFF TIME IN THAT WHERE WE CAN GET A RETURN, HOPEFULLY, IN FINDING BETTER CONTRACTS. THE FIRST ONE IS MINIMUM THREE BIDS. STAFF PRESENTED THAT OTHER LIGHT GOVERNMENTS IN STATE DON'T HAVE A MINIMUM OF THREE BIDS. I DID MY OWN RESEARCH. I HAD MY OWN RESEARCHER CALL THE TOP TEN COUNTIES AND THE TOP TEN CITIES. AS I PRESENTED TO YOU LAST TIME, THE ONLY ONE I COULD FIND WAS I THINK CITY OF MIAMI. THE CITY OF MIAMI IT DOESN'T APPLY TO EVERYTHING. APPLIED ONLY TO A SMALL NARROW AREA. MY PUSH BACK WAS THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT EVERY BUSINESS DOES. EVERYBODY IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR DOES. NONPROFITS DO IT. AND ASK ANYBODY IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR, DO YOU KNOW THAT CITIES AND COUNTIES DO NOT REQUIRE THREE BIDS AND THEY ARE APPALLED BY IT. WHAT WE'VE COME TO IN ALL THE CONVERSATIONS IS THAT THE ADMINISTRATION SAYS, OKAY, $5 MILLION WILL DO IT. AGAIN, A MINORITY OF CONTRACTS BUT SENDS A SIGNAL TO THE PUBLIC THAT WE'RE SERIOUS ABOUT PROTECTING THEIR MONEY AND ABOUT GIVING BUSINESSES AN OPPORTUNITY. AS FAR AS I KNOW FROM THE RESEARCH I DID AND THE RESEARCH YOU ALL DID, WE WILL BE THE FIRST MAJOR CITY OR COUNTY IN THE STATE TO HAVE A THREE-BID REQUIREMENT, WHICH ACTUALLY IS PRETTY SHOCKING. I'M SURPRISED THAT HAS NOT HAPPENED BEFORE. THE SECOND ONE IS THAT -- SO PIGGY BACKING. FOR ANYBODY WATCHING WHO DOESN'T KNOW, I THINK IT WAS DURING THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION THEY PASSED A RULE THAT SAID, WHEN JEB BUSH WAS GOVERNOR, THAT IF A GOVERNMENT AGENCY IN FLORIDA NEGOTIATES TO AN RFP, PUBLIC PROCESS, NEGOTIATE A PRICE TO BUY SOMETHING, THEN OTHER GOVERNMENT AGENCIES CAN PIGGYBACK. THEY CAN USE THE SAME CONTRACT SO THEY CAN GET THE PRICE THAT THE OTHER GOVERNMENT AGENCY NEGOTIATED. THAT PREVENTS -- I THINK THE INTENT WAS TO MAKE SURE GOVERNMENTS DIDN'T HAVE DIFFERENCES IN PRICES. SO IF A VENDOR PROVIDED ONE LOW PRICE FOR ONE GOVERNMENT, THEY WOULD HAVE TO OFFER THE SAME LOW PRICE FOR OTHERS. BUT WHAT THAT DOESN'T DO IS SHOW THAT YOU'RE GETTING COMPETITIVE INFORMATION. AN EXAMPLE HERE, LET'S SAY TPD WANTS TO BUY TRUCKS AND HERNANDO SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT HAS A CONTRACT THAT WAS PUBLICLY BID AND THEY HAVE A PRICE FOR TRUCKS, WE CAN PIGGYBACK ON THEIR CONTRACT AND BUY TRUCKS FROM THE SAME VENDOR AT THE SAME PRICE. WHAT THIS RULE WILL DO IS REQUIRE PURCHASING TO LOOK AT OTHER PIGGY BACKING CONTRACTS. LET'S SAY PINELLAS COUNTY SHERIFF HAS A CONTRACT, WE CAN LOOK AT WHAT THEIR PRICE WAS, LOOK AT WHAT POLK COUNTY WAS. WE CAN SAY TO THE PUBLIC, LOOK, WE LOOKED AT TWO OR THREE MORE PIGGY BACKING CONTRACTS AND CONFIRMED THE ONE WE PICKED HAD THE BEST PRICE. KIND OF LIKE A THREE BID THING BUT WITH PIGGY BACKING. THE LAST ONE IS THE SERVICES CONTRACTS THAT WE HAVE. WE HAVE A CHUNK OF MONEY LIKE $6 MILLION WITH A LIST OF 50 CONTRACTORS AND THE STAFF CAN GO IN AND QUICKLY HIRE CONSULANTS FOR SMALL AMOUNTS OF MONEY. WHAT THIS DOES IT CLOSES A LOOPHOLE AND I THINK ONLY ONE OR TWO YOU SAID THAT WENT OVER A HUNDRED THOUSAND. BUT CLOSED A LOOPHOLE TO SAY ANYBODY ABOVE HUNDRED THOUSAND HAS TO COME BACK BEFORE COUNCIL. ALL THAT DOES IS IT KEEPS SOMEBODY FROM SPENDING $6 MILLION HYPOTHETICALLY. THEY ARE NOT DOING THAT, BUT IT CLOSES THE LOOPHOLE. I THINK A FOURTH THING YOU ALL BROUGHT UP, WHICH IS MAYBE CHANGE THE OVERALL APPROVAL OF THE 200,000. MAYBE THAT'S IN THE FOURTH ORDINANCE. BUT THESE ARE THE THREE THAT WE HAD PUT ON THE AGENDA. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: CHIEF? >>JOHN BENNETT: THANK YOU FOR THAT FEEDBACK. AGAIN, WE HAVE THE DEPARTMENT DIRECTORS HERE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. JUST TO DISCUSS THE THRESHOLD, WE WANT TO KEEP THE TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY ALIGNED WITH WHAT WE'VE ALREADY BEEN DOING WITH OUR QUARTERLY REPORTS. AGAIN, WE THINK THIS IS BUNDLED WELL FOR STAFF. WE WORKED ON THIS FOR SEVERAL MONTHS. AGAIN, WE APPRECIATE THE PUSHING OUT OF THE WORKSHOP SO WE CAN WORK TOGETHER TO MEET THESE SPECS. >>BILL CARLSON: ONE MORE THING. AS I UNDERSTAND IT, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, CITY OF TAMPA, IT'S COMPLICATED, CITY OF TAMPA PURCHASES THINGS IN THREE DEPARTMENTS. I'LL TELL THE SIMPLE WAY. YOU ALL CAN CORRECT THIS. WE HAVE PURCHASING. THE LADY STANDING UP, PURCHASING IS LIKE BUYING PRODUCTS, CHAIRS, TABLES, THINGS LIKE THAT. THEN WE HAVE SERVICES, WHICH IS CALLED CONTRACT ADMINISTRATION. AND THEY NOT ONLY NEGOTIATE BUT ALSO OVERSEE AND IMPLEMENT TO MAKE SURE. AND YOU HIRED A NEW PERSON A YEAR AGO. WE HAVE TWO NEW PEOPLE IN THOSE POSITIONS. THE THIRD ONE IS REAL ESTATE. WE'VE GOT TO LOOK ACROSS ALL THREE OF THOSE, BUT SERVICES, PURCHASING OF SERVICES WHEN RICHARD MUTTERBACK CAME IN A YEAR AND A HALF AGO, WE HAD LONG CONVERSATIONS THAT WERE SIMILAR TO THIS. BASED ON THE FEEDBACK, THE MAYOR SIGNED AN EXECUTIVE ORDER WHICH WENT WAY BEYOND WHAT A LOT OF OTHER CITIES DO IN BUYING SERVICES TO SET A NEW STANDARD FOR ACCOUNTABILITY AND TRANSPARENCY. NOW WHAT WE'RE DOING IS ADDING TO THAT I THINK MAINLY IN THE PURCHASING AREA, BUT MAYBE IT ALSO APPLIES IN CONTRACT ADMINISTRATION. DID I GET THAT RIGHT AT ALL? >>JOHN BENNETT: NO, THAT'S FAIR. AGAIN, THE DIRECTORS ARE HERE TO ANSWER ANY OF THE UNDERLYING DATA THAT SUPPORTS WHERE WE'RE HEADING. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: COUNCIL MEMBER CLENDENIN. >>ALAN CLENDENIN: CHIEF, QUESTION. SO THE PROPOSED ORDINANCES THAT MS. ZELMAN PRESENTED ON, SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THE THREE BIDS. IS THE CAVEAT IN THERE SUFFICIENT TO BE ABLE TO ADDRESS CITY BUSINESS AND MANAGE THE CITY ALONG WITH THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE TAXPAYERS? ARE YOU COMFORTABLE WITH THAT LANGUAGE? >>JOHN BENNETT: WELL, AGAIN I THINK THE STAFF APPRECIATES COUNCIL PUTTING THAT THRESHOLD IN HERE TO CREATE THAT BRIGHT LINE. AND STAFF WORKED WITH LEGAL, AND IT IS ACTIONABLE THE WAY IT'S BEEN PUT. >>ALAN CLENDENIN: ON THE CAVEAT ON THE OTHER ISSUE ABOUT BRINGING THE HUNDRED TO TWO HUNDRED, I GIVE PAUSE, WE SAW IN AN ISSUE BEFORE WHERE THINGS COME IN LIKE A PENNY LESS THAN THE THRESHOLD. I WANT TO MAKE SURE -- >>JOHN BENNETT: YEAH, I WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS THAT. AS A MATTER OF FACT I ASKED PURCHASING TO DO ON THE QUARTERLY REPORT, RIGHT NOW THERE IS A STANDING MOTION THAT BETWEEN 50,000 AND 100,000 GOES ON A QUARTERLY REPORT TO COUNCIL, AGAIN, FOR MORE TRANSPARENCY. HOW WE SCALE THAT UP IN THE RECOMMENDATION OF 200,000 CAN BE A DISCUSSION. BUT I HAD ASKED FOR A SPECIFIC MEMO ON ANYTHING THAT GOES FROM 95 TO 100,000 FOR THAT EXACT REASON. WE DO HAVE BREAKOUT REPORTING WHEN WE HIT THAT THRESHOLD OF 95,000. AGAIN, STAFF IS POISED TO SCALE THAT UP IF COUNCIL IS WILLING TO MOVE THE THRESHOLD. THE THRESHOLD IS OVER 20 YEARS OLD AND, OF COURSE, THE ECONOMY. AGAIN, STRIKING THAT BALANCE TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE TRANSPARENCY, ACCOUNTABILITY BASED ON WORKLOAD ANALYSIS IS WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO REACH. >>ALAN CLENDENIN: SOUNDS WELL THOUGHT OUT. THANK YOU. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. WE WILL BRING UP MR. MUTTERBACK. DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD? ANYTHING FURTHER TO THE PRESENTATION? >>RICHARD MUTTERBACK: DIRECTOR OF CONTRACT ADMINISTRATION. I'M JUST HERE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS AND ADD ANY, PROVIDE ANY SPECIFICS OR DETAILS YOU MAY INQUIRE ABOUT. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE GENTLEMAN? IF NOT, WE'LL GO TO PUBLIC COMMENT. COUNCIL MEMBER CARLSON, ARE YOU GOOD TO GO TO PUBLIC COMMENT OR ANYTHING MORE? COUNCIL MEMBER MIRANDA. >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I WANT TO THANK YOU EVERY TIME I SEE A HOLE DUG IN EVERY STREET OF THE CITY OF TAMPA, I SEE A CONTRACT ADMINISTRATION CAR REVIEWING THE FACTS THAT THEY ARE DOING IT RIGHT. I WANT TO SAY THANK YOU BECAUSE I'VE SEEN AT LEAST 15 OF THEM IN THE LAST MONTH. EVERYWHERE I DRIVE, I SEE A HOLE DUG AND YOUR VEHICLE IS THERE AND GENTLEMAN OR LADY IS WATCHING. I WANT TO SAY THANK YOU FOR HAVING THE PEOPLE THERE, THAT THE PUBLIC CAN ALSO NOTICE WHEN YOU SEE THE CITY TRUCK OR VEHICLE THAT'S GOT THE CONTRACT ADMINISTRATION SYMBOL NEXT TO IT. >>RICHARD MUTTERBACK: THAT'S ACTUALLY MY LARGEST DIVISION. KIND OF GOES UNNOTICED. WE HAVE 60 IN OUR CONSTRUCTION, ENGINEERING AND INSPECTION TEAM THAT THEY ARE OUT THERE IN THE FIELD EVERY DAY. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. IF THERE'S NOTHING ELSE, WE'LL GO TO THE PUBLIC COMMENT AT THIS TIME. IS THERE ANYBODY IN THE PUBLIC THAT WISHES TO SPEAK? YES SIR. PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME. >> MENTESNOT. ONE THING WE KNOW FOR SURE ABOUT THE BIDDIN PROCESS, BEFORE THE BIDDING PROCESS GOES INTO EFFECT, THEY NEED TO PUT SOME TYPE OF SAFEGUARDS ON IT FOR AFRICAN CONTRACTORS. IT'S A TOTAL EMBARRASSMENT. THEY NEED TO LOOK AT THIS RETRO SPECKTIVELY AND SEE EXACTLY WHAT AFRICAN CONTRACTORS HAVE BEEN GETTING OUT OF THE CITY BUDGET. ALMOST ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY NOTHING. NOT ONLY BECAUSE OF THE PAPERWORK DISCOURAGEMENT BUT DOING ANYTHING TO ATTRACT THE AFRICAN CONTRACTORS. THE PEOPLE ARE SO INTELLIGENT THAT THEY PROACTIVELY, LIKE IN THE NEIGHBORHOODS, THEY LET IT GO DOWN AND DOWN AND DOWN AND DOWN. THEY SELL IT FOR CHEAP AND THEN THE GENTRIFICATION STARTS. NOBODY WANTS TO LIVE THERE ANYMORE. IT IS THE SAME THING GOING ON WITH THESE CITY BIDS. THE HARASSMENT IS SO GREAT THAT AFRICAN CONTRACTORS AREN'T EVEN COMING TO BID ON PROJECTS. NO ONE IS DOING ANY OUTREACH AND NO ONE IS DOING ANYTHING TO HAVE TRAINING PROGRAMS WHERE THERE WILL EVEN BE AFRICAN CONTRACTORS IN THE FUTURE. THANK YOU. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SIR. NEXT SPEAKER, YES, MA'AM. PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME. >> GOOD MORNING. STEPHANIE POYNOR. YOU KNOW WHAT? EVERY TIME I DO THE MATH AND THEY DO BIDS ON STUFF, GUESS WHAT, WE SAVE MONEY. OH, MY GOODNESS. WOW. THAT'S CRAZY. AND NORMALLY WHEN I DO A CITY COUNCIL REVIEW AND I CALCULATE THE DIFFERENCES, IT'S SIGNIFICANT. I THINK THAT WHEN THEY DO IT INITIALLY AND THEN THEY COME BACK AND THEY RENEW WITH A REASONABLE CPI, THAT'S CONSUMER PRICE INDEX INCREASE, I THINK THAT IS A REASONABLE PROCESS BECAUSE IF WE ARE DOING A 3.2%, WHICH IS WHAT IT HAS BEEN LATELY, IT MAKES SENSE BECAUSE IT COSTS MONEY TO HAVE STAFF DO ANOTHER BID WHEN THEY ARE THE ORIGINAL BIDDER. IF WE DO IT TEN YEARS FROM NOW, NO. BUT FOR ADDING ANOTHER YEAR, THAT MAKES REASONABLE SENSE. BECAUSE, AS A RULE, THE PROCESS COSTS A LOT OF MONEY TO HAVE BIDS DONE, SO WE NEED TO TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION. BUT THEN AGAIN, THEY MIGHT BE THE CHEAPEST BID AND THEN THEY DON'T SHOW UP TO WORK LIKE THE FOLKS IN WEST TAMPA WHO AREN'T MOWING THE GRASS AND WE PAID THEM MONEY TO MOW THE GRASS. I THINK THAT THE BID PROCESS IS A GOOD THING, BUT I ALSO THINK THAT ONCE WE GET THE RIGHT PERSON IN PLACE, DOING A RENEWAL OF A CONTRACT, WHEN I WAS IN THE GLASS BUSINESS, THEY RENEWED OUR CONTRACT IN NASHVILLE, AND I THINK WE HAD TO REBID ONCE EVERY TWO OR THREE YEARS WITH METRO HOUSING. SO THAT WAS A NORMAL PROCESS. IT WASN'T SOMETHING THAT WAS RENEWED. IT WAS RENEWED ONE YEAR AFTER THE NEXT AND THEN WE HAD TO REBID IT. SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. COUNCILMAN CARLSON. >>BILL CARLSON: SORRY, I WAS TALKING TO MARTY ABOUT DATES. I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO PUT THE FIRST THREE -- THERE ARE FOUR PROPOSALS. BY THE WAY, I DIDN'T WRITE THESE. DIDN'T HAVE ANY INPUT ON THE WRITING. ANDREA DID THAT COMPLETELY WITH THE CHIEF OF STAFF. I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO PUT THE FIRST THREE ON THE AGENDA FOR OCTOBER 3rd FOR FIRST READING CONSIDERATION. AND THEN SEPARATE TO THAT MOTION, I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE A DISCUSSION QUICK ABOUT NUMBER FOUR AND SEE HOW YOU ALL VOTE FOR THAT. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: WE'LL TAKE THE FIRST MOTION, WHICH WILL BE TO PUT THE FIRST THREE ORDINANCES FOR FIRST READING CONSIDERATION ON THE OCTOBER 3rd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rd. >>ALAN CLENDENIN: I SECONDED THE FIRST AND OBVIOUSLY SECOND THAT WITH THE AMENDMENT TO ADDRESS ALL FOUR AT THE SAME TIME. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? IF NOT, I'LL ASK FOR A VOTE. THIS IS FOR ALL FOUR TO BE SET FOR FIRST READING AND CONSIDERATION AT THE OCTOBER 3rd REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING. WE HAVE A MOTION AND SECOND. >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: I'M NOT OPPOSED TO ANY OF THAT, FOURTH ONE, HUNDRED THOUSAND. HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS TODAY DOESN'T BUY WHAT $50,000 DID -- CHANGE IT TO 200. >> THAT'S WHAT IT IS. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: THANK YOU. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. ANY OPPOSED? THAT'S IT. THANK YOU. THAT CONCLUDES THE AGENDA. >>BILL CARLSON: THANK YOU TO ALL THE STAFF AND ESPECIALLY CHIEF OF STAFF FOR WORKING WITH US ON THAT. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: WE GO TO INFORMATION REPORTS AND NEW BUSINESS BY COUNCIL MEMBERS. >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: NO, SIR. >>LUIS VIERA: REALLY QUICK, IF I MAY, I SENT A MEMO OUT ON THIS. I WANT TO ASK OUR CITY LEGAL DEPARTMENT TO COME ON OCTOBER 3rd AND IF THAT DATE NEEDS TO BE MOVED, THAT'S FINE. TO UPDATE US ON OUR APPRENTICESHIP ORDINANCE THAT WE PASSED A FEW YEARS AGO AND THE STATUS OF IT. I'M IN DISCUSSIONS WITH FOLKS RIGHT NOW ON IT. IT APPEARS -- I'LL LET THEM GET INTO IT. IT APPEARS IT'S BEEN PREEMPTED, AS MANY FOLKS HAVE HEARD. AND THAT'S BEYOND UNFORTUNATE. OBVIOUSLY, THAT'S TERRIBLE. THE ORDINANCE THAT WE PASSED THREE YEARS AGO WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS VERY, VERY REASONABLE. IT MADE A LOT OF ACCOMMODATIONS, ET CETERA, FOR CONTRACTORS. BUT, AGAIN, IT APPEARS TO HAVE BEEN PREEMPTED. I WANT CITY STAFF TO COME AND UPDATE US ON THAT ON OCTOBER 3rd, IF I MAY. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: IN-PERSON STAFF REPORT? >>LUIS VIERA: PLEASE. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: MOTION. DO WE HAVE A SECOND? SECOND FROM COUNCIL MEMBER MIRANDA. COUNCIL MEMBER CARLSON, YOU WANT TO SAY SOMETHING. OKAY. >>CHARLIE MIRANDA: [INAUDIBLE] >>LUIS VIERA: YES, SIR. IT WOULD INCLUDE SOMETHING LIKE ST. PETERSBURG DID WHICH WAS MUCH MORE I BELIEVE ONEROUS AS OPPOSED TO SOMETHING TAMPA DID THAT WAS MORE MODERATE AND REASONABLE, AS THEY WILL GO FORWARD. WE'RE WORKING WITH STAKEHOLDERS RIGHT NOW ON THE THINGS THAT WE CAN DO TO PROMOTE WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT AND APPRENTICESHIPS THROUGH THE CONTRACTING PROCESS. BUT UNFORTUNATELY, THE RUG HAS BEEN PULLED OUT UNDER US ON THAT ISSUE. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: WE HAVE A MOTION AND SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. ANY OPPOSED? ANYTHING ELSE. >>LUIS VIERA: THAT'S IT. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: COUNCIL MEMBER HENDERSON. >>GWEN HENDERSON: NO, SIR. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: COUNCIL MEMBER CLENDENIN, COUNCIL MEMBER CARLSON. I HAVE NOTHING. OH, WAIT -- >>BILL CARLSON: HAD TO RECUSE MYSELF -- I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO RECEIVE AND FILE MY FORM. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: MOTION AND SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. THAT IS A MOTION TO RECEIVE AND FILE. MS. ZELMAN. >>ANDREA ZELMAN: BEFORE YOU LEAVE, ANDREA ZELMAN, CITY ATTORNEY. I HEARD MY NAME MENTIONED. IT WAS ACTUALLY JUSTIN VASKE AND MARCIE HAMILTON WHO DID ALL THE WORK ON THE ORDINANCES IN THAT MEMO THAT WENT TO YOU. I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THEY GOT THE CREDIT SINCE THEY WERE THE ONES THAT DID ALL THE WORK, NOT ME. >>BILL CARLSON: THANK YOU TO THEM. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: CAN I GET A MOTION TO RECEIVE AND FILE ALL DOCUMENTS? >> [INAUDIBLE] >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: HE MADE THE MOTION AND COUNCIL MEMBER MIRANDA SECONDED IT. >>LUIS VIERA: IS EVERYBODY GOING TO BE HERE LIVE THIS EVENING? >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: YEAH. >>LUIS VIERA: I MAY NEED TO BE VIRTUAL. JUST MAKING SURE. THANK YOU. >>GUIDO MANISCALCO: WE'RE MISSING ONE COUNCIL MEMBER. WE HAVE A MOTION TO RECEIVE AND FILE. MOTION FROM COUNCIL MEMBER CARLSON, SECOND FROM COUNCIL MEMBER MIRANDA. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. WE ARE ADJOURNED. [ SOUNDING GAVEL ]