MARCH 18, 2024 MARCH 18, 2024. PLANO PLANNING AND ZONING >> Chair Downs: GOOD EVENING. FULL HOUSE. EVERYBODY EXCITED TO BE HERE? SOME OF YOU ARE LAUGHING. COME ON. ALL RIGHT. WE'RE GOING TO START OUR MEETING AT 7:05. I APOLOGIZE FOR THE DELAY. WE HAD AN EXECUTIVE SESSION THAT TOOK A LITTLE BIT OF TIME. WE'RE GOING TO START WITH THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE. SO IF YOU WOULD PLEASE RISE AND JOIN ME IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE. [PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE] >> Chair Downs: SO I'M GOING TO THROW A LITTLE BIT OF A CURVEBALL AT CHRISTY, BECAUSE I HAVEN'T EVEN TALKED TO HER ABOUT THIS YET. WE HAVE A COUPLE OF ITEMS ON OUR AGENDA THAT WE'RE GOING TO GET UP FRONT. ONE IS THE DAVIS LIBRARY, ITEM NO. 6 ON THE AGENDA, IF YOU WERE HERE FOR THAT. THEY'RE GOING TO REMODEL THESE CHAMBERS, WHICH IS GOOD. THERE'S A LOT OF GOOD THAT'S GOING TO COME FROM THAT. BUT IT MEANS WE'VE GOT TO HOLD MEETINGS SOMEWHERE ELSE FOR ABOUT SEVEN MONTHS. AND THAT'S AT THE DAVIS LIBRARY OVER ON INDEPENDENCE. NOW, WE'RE PUTTING THIS OUT EVERY WHICH WAY WE CAN. IT'S ON THE WEBSITE. IT'S ON THE AGENDAS. IT'S ON EVERYTHING. HEY, WE'RE MOVING TO DAVIS LIBRARY FOR OUR MEETINGS. THAT'S IMPORTANT. I THINK MOST IMPORTANT, THOUGH, IS ONE OF THE CHANGES THAT'S GOING TO TAKE PLACE, BECAUSE OF THIS RELOCATION -- AND WE TALKED ABOUT THIS. THAT IT'S CRITICAL, CRITICAL, CRITICAL THAT YOU KNOW. IF YOU'RE USED TO SHOWING UP HERE AND COMING DOWN FRONT AND FILLING OUT A SPEAKER'S CARD, YOU CAN'T DO THAT AT THE LIBRARY. THE SYSTEMS, WITHOUT GETTING INTO ALL THE DETAILS, YOU'RE GOING TO NEED TO GO ONLINE AND REGISTER TO SPEAK BY 4:00 ON THE DAY OF THE MEETING. SO I JUST WANT TO GIVE EVERYBODY AS MUCH NOTICE AS WE CAN GIVE YOU THAT THAT'S HOW THAT'S GOING TO WORK. IT'S EASY TO DO BUT I WANT TO MAKE SURE EVERYBODY KNOWS IT AND HOPEFULLY PTV WILL GET THIS INFORMATION OUT. WE WANT YOU TO SPEAK. WE DON'T WANT YOU TO SHOW UP AT THE LAST MINUTE AND TOLD YOU CAN'T FILL OUT A CARD. NOW THAT THAT'S SAID, WE'RE GOING TO GET STARTED BUT FYI WE'RE GOING TO START WITH NO. 5 ON THE AGENDA WHEN YOU GET THROUGH THE PUBLIC COMMENT, PLEASE. >> COMMENTS OF PUBLIC INTEREST. THIS PORTION OF THE MEETING IS TO ALLOW UP TO THREE MINUTES PER SPEAKER WITH 30 TOTAL MINUTES ON ITEMS OF INTEREST OR CONCERN AND NOT ON ITEMS THAT ARE ON THE CURRENT AGENDA. THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MAY NOT DISCUSS THESE ITEMS, BUT MAY RESPOND WITH FACTUAL OR POLICY INFORMATION. THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MAY CHOOSE TO PLACE THE ITEM ON A FUTURE AGENDA. THE PRESIDING OFFICER MAY MODIFY THESE TIMES AS DEEMED NECESSARY. >> Chair Downs: DO WE HAVE ANY SPEAKERS? >> THERE ARE NONE. >> Chair Downs: THANK YOU. LET'S GO AHEAD AND MOVE TO CONSENT AND THEN WE'LL GO TO NO. 5. >> CONSENT AGENDA. THE CONSENT AGENDA WILL BE ACTED UPON IN ONE MOTION AND CONTAINS ITEMS WHICH ARE ROUTINE AND TYPICALLY NONCONTROVERSIAL. ITEMS MAY BE REMOVED FROM THIS AGENDA FOR INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION BY COMMISSIONERS OR STAFF. >> Chair Downs: WOULD ANYONE LIKE TO PULL AN ITEM FROM CONSENT AGENDA? >> Bronsky: I MOVE THAT WE APROVE THE CONSENT AGENDA AS SUBMITTED. >> SECOND. >> Chair Downs: THANK YOU. I HAVE A MOTION BY COMMISSIONER BRONSKY WITH A SECOND BY COMMISSIONER OLLEY TO APPROVE THE CONSENT AGENDA. PLEASE VOTE. WE'RE WAITING ON -- AND THAT ITEM CARRIES 8-0. LET'S GO TO ITEM 5 FIRST. IS THERE ANYONE HERE FOR ITEM 5? LET'S GET IT OUT OF THE WAY ANYWAY. GO AHEAD. ITEM 5. MR. LISLE WILL BE RECUSING HIMSELF FOR THIS ITEM. >> CALL FOR PUBLIC HEARING. DISCUSSION AND ACTION. REQUEST TO CALL A PUBLIC HEARING TO AMEND PLANNED DEVELOPMENT-64 CENTRAL BUSINESS 1 TO MODIFY THE LOCATION AND DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS FOR MID-RISE RESIDENTIAL ON 137.3 ACRES LOCATED AT THE NORTHWEST CORNER OF DALLAS NORTH TOLLWAY AND HEADQUARTERS DRIVE. APPLICANT IS COLUMBUS REALTY PARTNERS LIMITED. >> GOOD EVENING, MR. CHAIR, MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION. I'M RAHA POULADI, PLANNER WITH THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT. STAFF RECOMMENDS COMMISSION CALL A PUBLIC HEARING TO AMEND PLANNED DEVELOPMENT 64 CENTRAL BUSINESS 1. I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU MIGHT HAVE. >> Chair Downs: THANK YOU. DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ON THIS? I CAN'T SEE. THIS ISN'T RESET. OKAY. MR. LISLE HAS RECUSED HIMSELF. I THINK THAT'S WHY HE WANTED TO SPEAK ON THIS. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF ON THIS ITEM? SEEING NONE, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THIS ISN'T A PUBLIC HEARING ITEM BUT IS THERE ANYONE HERE THAT WANTS TO SPEAK ON ITEM 5? OKAY. >> Bronsky: I MOVE WE CALL A PUBLIC HEARING TO AMEND PLANNED DEVELOPMENT 64. >> Chair Downs: I HAVE A MOTION BY MR. BRONSKY WITH A SECOND BY COMMISSIONER RATLIFF TO CALL A PUBLIC HEARING PER STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION ON ITEM 5. PLEASE VOTE. THANK YOU. AND THAT ITEM CARRIES BY A VOTE OF 7-0. THANK YOU. OKAY. NOW WE CAN MOVE BACK TO ITEM 1A AND B. >> ITEMS FOR INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION. PUBLIC HEARING ITEMS. UNLESS INSTRUCTED OTHERWISE BY THE CHAIR, SPEAKERS WILL BE CALLED IN THE ORDER REGISTRATIONS ARE RECEIVED. APPLICANTS ARE LIMITED TO A TOTAL OF 15 MINUTES OF PRESENTATION TIME WITH A FIVE-MINUTE REBUTTAL, IF NEEDED. REMAINING SPEAKERS ARE LIMITED TO 30 TOTAL MINUTES OF TESTIMONY TIME, WITH THREE MINUTES ASSIGNED PER SPEAKER. THE PRESIDING OFFICER MAY MODIFY THESE TIMES AS DEEMED NECESSARY. ADMINISTRATIVE CONSIDERATION ITEMS MUST BE APPROVED IF THEY MEET CITY DEVELOPMENT REGULATIONS. LEGISLATIVE CONSIDERATION ITEMS ARE MORE DISCRETIONARY, EXCEPT AS CONSTRAINED BY LEGAL CONSIDERATIONS. IF IT PLEASEs the chair, I'll read 1A and 1 B together. IF IT PLEASES THE CHAIR I'LL READ 1A AND 1B TOGETHER. >> Chair Downs: YES. AGENDA ITEM NO. 1A. PUBLIC HEARING: ZONING CASE 2023-007 ━ REQUEST TO REZONE 13.5 ACRES LOCATED AT THE NORTHEAST CORNER OF PARK BOULEVARD AND CUSTER ROAD FROM PLANNED DEVELOPMENT-225- SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENCE ATTACHED TO PLANNED DEVELOPMENT-225-RETAIL. PETITIONER: FAIRVIEW FARM LAND COMPANY LTD. THIS IS FOR LEGISLATIVE CONSIDERATION. AGENDA ITEM NO. 1B. PUBLIC HEARING ━ CONCEPT PLAN: TOWNHOMES AT WEST PARK, BLOCKS A-C AND THE SHOPPES OF PLANO, BLOCK D, LOTS 1-2-RESTAURANT, SHOPPING CENTER, 33 SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENCE ATTACHED LOTS, AND THREE COMMON AREA LOTS ON 11.5 ACRES LOCATED AT THE NORTHEAST CORNER OF PARK BOULEVARD AND CUSTER ROAD. ZONED PLANNED DEVELOPMENT-225- SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENCE ATTACHED. APPLICANT: FAIRVIEW FARM LAND COMPANY LTD. THIS IS FOR LEGISLATIVE CONSIDERATION. >> THANK YOU. THE APPLICANT FOR THIS ZONING CASE WAS UNEXPECTEDLY UNABLE TO ATTEND TONIGHT'S MEETING AND THEY ARE REQUESTING TO TABLE THIS ZONING CASE TO THE MAY 6 PLANNING AND ZONING AGENDA. STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THE COMMISSION ACCEPTS APPLICANT'S REQUEST AND TABLE THIS ITEM TO MAY 6, 2024 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING. I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU MIGHT HAVE. >> Chair Downs: THANK YOU. QUESTIONS FOR STAFF ON ITEM 1A OR 1B? ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. I AM GOING TO OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. I THINK WE HAD ONE PERSON THAT WAS HERE TO SPEAK ON ITEM 1A. WOULD YOU LIKE TO SPEAK ANYWAY, SIR, EVEN THOUGH WE DON'T HAVE A PRESENTATION? STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS. >> COUNCIL MEMBERS, HELLO, MY NAME IS ERIC STETLER, 2312 BRISBANE LANE IN PLANO, TEXAS. COUNCIL MEMBERS, I'M HERE TO SPEAK AGAINST PROPOSITION 23-007 IN OPPOSITION FOR THE ZONING CHANGE. THERE ARE TWO PIECES OF INFORMATION I WOULD LIKE TO HIGHLIGHT TO THE COMMISSION. ONE, THERE HAS BEEN A PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD WHERE OVER 522 OF MY RESIDENTS HAVE COMMENTED AND ONLY 10 OUT OF THE 522 HAVE SPOKEN IN FAVOR OF THE CHANGE. SO 98% ARE AGAINST OR NEUTRAL ON THE CHANGE. I'VE ALSO DONE, PERSONALLY, A SURVEY OF THE NEARBY COMMERCIAL REAL ESTATE PROPERTIES. THERE'S A HUB AT THE INTERSECTION OF PARKER AND CUSTER AND THERE IS ANOTHER WELL-DEVELOPED AREA OF COMMERCIAL REAL ESTATE AT THE INTERSECTION OF 15th STREET AND CUSTER. SO NORTH AND SOUTH OF THIS PROPERTY CHANGE. I COUNTED ALL THE EMPTY COMMERCIAL REAL ESTATE LOCATIONS AT THESE AND THERE ARE 35 EMPTY SPACES. SO WHAT THIS PROPOSED CHANGE IS GOING TO DO IS POTENTIALLY INTRODUCE ADDITIONAL COMMERCIAL REAL ESTATE IN AN AREA THAT DOES NOT NEED IT. AND IN A COMMUNITY THAT DOES NOT WANT IT. SO I WOULD CERTAINLY HOPE THAT THE COMMISSION WOULD DECIDE TO DISMISS THIS PROPOSED ZONING CHANGE. THANK YOU FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION. >> Chair Downs: THANK YOU, SIR. DO WE HAVE ANY OTHER SPEAKERS ON THIS ITEM? >> NO OTHER SPEAKERS BUT WE DO HAVE ONE REGISTERED OPINION IN OPPOSITION. >> Chair Downs: THANK YOU. OKAY. I WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. CONFINE DISCUSSION TO THE COMMISSION. COMMISSIONER BRONSKY. >> Bronsky: BECAUSE WE DON'T WOULD MOVE THAT WE TAKE THE RECOMMENDATION OF STAFF AND TABLE THIS 1A TO -- CAN I DO BOTH AT ONCE? >> Chair Downs: SURE. >> Bronsky: 1A AND 1B BOTH TO THE MAY 6, 2024 P&Z MEETING. >> Chair Downs: THANK YOU. >> SECOND. >> Chair Downs: I HAVE A MOTION BY COMMISSIONER BRONSKY WITH A SECOND BY COMMISSIONER OLLEY TO TABLE ITEMS 1A AND 1B TO THE MAY 6th PLANNING AND ZONING MEETING. PLEASE VOTE. THAT ITEM CARRIES BY A VOTE OF 7-1. ITEM 2. >> AGENDA ITEM NO. 2. PUBLIC HEARING: ZONING CASE ZC2024-007 ━ REQUEST TO AMEND PLANNED DEVELOPMENT 489- MULTIFAMILY RESIDENCE-1 ON 36.5 ACRES ON THE NORTH SIDE OF LEGACY DRIVE, 770 FEET WEST OF CHASE OAKS BOULEVARD. ZONED PLANNED DEVELOPMENT-489- MULTIFAMILY RESIDENCE-1. PETITIONER: 701 LEGACY DRIVE, LLC, 701 LEGACY DRIVE II, LLC, AND 701 LEGACY DRIVE IV, LLC. >> THIS ZONING CASE WAS NOTICED TO BE PLACED ON TONIGHT'S PLANNING AND ZONING AGENDA. HOWEVER, THE REZONING NOTICE SIGNS WERE NOT INSTALLED ON THE SUBJECT PROPERTY TO COMPLY WITH THE DEADLINE ESTABLISHED ON THE ZONING ORDINANCE. AS A RESULT, STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THE COMMISSION ACCEPTS THE APPLICANT'S REQUEST TO TABLE THIS ITEM TO APRIL 1st, 2024 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING. I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS YOU MIGHT HAVE. >> Chair Downs: THANK YOU. MR. BRONSKY. OH, MR. BROUNOFF. >> Brounoff: I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THEY HAD CHANGED THEIR REQUEST TO POSTPONE TO APRIL 15th INSTEAD OF APRIL 1st, IS THAT CORRECT? I THINK I GOT SOMETHING -- >> NO, THAT WAS THE APPLICANT FOR THE PREVIOUS ITEM. >> Brounoff: SO THIS ONE IS FOR APRIL 1st. >> Chair Downs: MR. BRONSKY. >> Bronsky: I JUST WANT TO MAKE A COMMENT, IN GENERAL. I REALLY APPRECIATE THE WAY THAT YOU GUYS HAVE NOW STARTED TALKING ABOUT THE RATIONALE FOR THE TABLING. I THINK THAT THAT'S VERY INFORMATIVE TO US AS WELL AS THOSE THAT ARE WATCHING. SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THAT CHANGE. >> Chair Downs: I'M APPRECIATIVE THAT WE'RE PAYING ATTENTION TO THE POSTING REQUIREMENTS AND MAKING SURE THAT THEY'RE COMPLIED WITH, BECAUSE THAT'S IMPORTANT FOR THE PUBLIC AS WELL. THANK YOU FOR THAT. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? OKAY. THANK YOU. I'LL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. DO WE HAVE ANY SPEAKERS ON THIS ITEM? >> THERE ARE NO SPEAKERS FOR THIS ITEM BUT WE DO HAVE ONE REGISTERED OPINION IN OPPOSITION. >> Chair Downs: THANK YOU. I WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING, CONFINE DISCUSSION TO THE COMMISSION. >> Bronsky: I MOVE WE TABLE AGENDA ITEM NO. 2, ZONING CASE 2024-007 TO THE APRIL 1st, 2024 P&Z MEETING. >> Chair Downs: THANK YOU. >> SECOND. >> Chair Downs: I HAVE A MOTION BY COMMISSIONER BRONSKY WITH A SECOND BY COMMISSIONER TONG TO TABLE ITEM -- >> [OFF MIC] >> Chair Downs: LET ME FINISH MY STATEMENT THERE, WHICH IS WE HAVE THE MOTION AND THE SECOND TO TABLE THIS ITEM TO APRIL 1 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING. BEFORE WE VOTE -- >> Cary: I WOULD LIKE TO MOVE THIS TO THE 15th. I'M PASSIONATE ABOUT THIS ONE. I'D LIKE TO BE HERE WHEN IT'S DONE AND THERE'S A GOOD CHANCE I WON'T BE HERE FOR THAT ONE. FOR THAT REASON, I WOULD LIKE TO MOVE IT BACK, IF WE COULD. >> CAN I ASK -- >> I BELIEVE THE APPLICANT IS HERE. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANT TO ASK THEIR OPINION, SINCE THIS IS THEIR REQUESTED DATE. >> Chair Downs: LET'S FIRST ASK IS THERE AN ISSUE WITH STAFF WITH THIS DATE? >> [OFF MIC] >> YES, IT WILL. >> Chair Downs: OKAY. THE APPLICANT'S HERE, IF THEY COULD COME DOWN WE COULD ASK QUICKLY IF THAT'S AN ISSUE FOR THEM. >> VERY BRIEFLY, THE 15th WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE, IF IT WORKS TO THE CONVENIENCE OF THE COMMISSION. >> Bronsky: THANK YOU. I WILL ACCEPT THE AMENDMENT AND ACCEPT THE DATE. I MOVE THAT WE TABLE AGENDA ITEM NO. 2, ZONING CASE 2024-007 UNTIL THE APRIL 15th PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING 2024. >> Chair Downs: MR. BRONSKY HAS MODIFIED HIS MOTION. >> I SECOND. >> Chair Downs: AND WE STILL HAVE A SECOND BY COMMISSIONER TONG, SO PLEASE VOTE. THAT ITEM CARRIES 8-0. >> NON-PUBLIC HEARING ITEMS. THE PRESIDING OFFICER WILL PERMIT LIMITED PUBLIC COMMENT FOR ITEMS ON THE AGENDA NOT POSTED FOR A PUBLIC HEARING. THE PRESIDING OFFICER WILL ESTABLISH TIME LIMITS BASED UPON THE NUMBER OF SPEAKER REQUESTS, LENGTH OF THE AGENDA, AND TO ENSURE MEETING EFFICIENCY, AND MAY INCLUDE A TOTAL TIME LIMIT. AGENDA ITEM NO. 3. DISCUSSION AND DIRECTION: SHORT-TERM RENTAL ZONING REGULATIONS ━ WORK SESSION REGARDING SHORT-TERM RENTAL ZONING REGULATIONS. APPLICANT: CITY OF PLANO. WE HAVE 27 REGISTERED OPINIONS ON THIS, SIX IN SUPPORT, 16 IN OPPOSITION, AND FIVE THAT ARE REGISTERED NEUTRAL. AND WE HAVE 23 REGISTERED SPEAKERS. >> Chair Downs: VERY GOOD. WE'LL HEAR STAFF'S REPORT AND WHEN IT GETS TIME FOR THE SPEAKERS, I'LL ADDRESS THAT. GO AHEAD. >> GOOD EVENING, COMMISSIONERS. I'M CHRISTINA SEBASTIAN, LAND RECORDS PLANNING MANAGER. AS YOU KNOW, THE SHORT-TERM RENTAL STUDY STARTED IN NOVEMBER OF 2022. THE CITY COUNCIL ADOPTED AN INTERIM BAN OF NEW SHORT-TERM RENTALS LAST MAY AND THEN WE STARTED THE OUTREACH AND DATA COLLECTION PORTION OF THE PROJECT. THAT INCLUDED APPOINTMENT OF A SHORT-TERM RENTAL TASK FORCE, A COMMUNITY SURVEY, AND TWO OPEN HOUSES. WE ARE NOW AT THE END OF THE OUTREACH AND DATA COLLECTION PHASE AND STARTING OUR PERMANENT MEASURES FOR CONSIDERATION. AS WE TRANSITION TO PERMANENT MEASURES, WE HAVE A PROJECT WEBSITE AT PLANO.GOV/STR. THERE ARE TWO OPPORTUNITIES FOR FEEDBACK ON THE PERMANENT MEASURES. THE CASE TONIGHT IS 2024-008. THIS IS THE ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENTS AND SO WE HAVE A ZONING CASE RESPONSE MAP WHERE USERS CAN SELECT THE ORDINANCE AMENDMENTS TABBED TO ENTER RESPONSES THAT WILL BE PROVIDED TO YOU, THE COMMISSION, AND LATER CITY COUNCIL. THERE'S ALSO A FEEDBACK OPPORTUNITY FOR THE SHORT-TERM RENTAL REGISTRATION PROGRAM THAT CITY COUNCIL WILL BE CONSIDERING. AS WELL AS A DEDICATED E-MAIL ADDRESS AVAILABLE FOR QUESTIONS, IF THE PUBLIC HAS THEM FOR STAFF. WE ARE ALSO WORKING ON MAILED NOTIFICATIONS THIS WEEK OF UPCOMING PUBLIC HEARINGS, WHICH ARE SCHEDULED FOR APRIL 1 IN FRONT OF YOU AT THE COMMISSION AND APRIL 22, BOTH AT DAVIS LIBRARY. SO AS YOU RECALL AT OUR LAST MEETING ON MARCH 4, YOU RECEIVED A PRESENTATION OF THE SHORT-TERM RENTAL STUDY PHASE 2 REPORT WHICH INCLUDED RECOMMENDATIONS OF THE SHORT-TERM RENTAL TASK FORCE. YOU CALLED A PUBLIC HEARING TO INITIATE THIS ZONING CASE AND THEN YOU RECEIVED A PRESENTATION OF OUR INITIAL DRAFT PROPOSAL. IT WAS BASED ON THE TASK FORCE RECOMMENDATIONS BUT IT WAS DEVELOPED BY STAFF AND IT WAS NOT CONSIDERED BY THE TASK FORCE AS THEIRS WAS TO PROVIDE BROAD RECOMMENDATIONS, NOT TO DEVELOP ORDINANCE LANGUAGE. THE TASK FORCE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT RELATE TO LAND USE AND ZONING ARE LISTED HERE. THEY ARE AVAILABLE FOR REFERENCE HERE BUT THEY ARE ALSO ON THE LAST PAGE OF ATTACHMENT A IN YOUR STAFF REPORT. SO A SUMMARY OF THE KEY POINTS OF THE PROPOSAL. ALL SHORT-TERM RENTALS NEED TO BE REGISTERED. ALL SHORT-TERM RENTALS THAT WERE OPERATING BEFORE THE INTERIM BAN ARE ALLOWED TO CONTINUE OPERATING AS GRANDFATHERED USES. THERE ARE THREE TYPES OF SHORT-TERM RENTALS PROPOSED BASED ON THE SCALE AND IMPACT OF THE RENTALS. AND THERE'S A POSSIBILITY FOR A LIMITED OR SEASONAL RENTAL OF SHORT-TERM RENTALS IN RESIDENTIAL AREAS FOR ONE LIMITED PERIOD EACH YEAR, WHICH WE WILL TALK ABOUT FURTHER TONIGHT. SO THE FIRST TYPE IS THE BED AND BREAKFAST ONE ROOM. HERE THE HOST LIVES ON SITE AND THERE IS ONE INDIVIDUAL ROOM AVAILABLE AS A SHORT-TERM RENTAL. WE FOUND THAT LIVE-IN MANAGEMENT COULD HELP RETAIN AND BUILD COMMUNITY FABRIC IN THIS TYPE OF RENTAL. THERE ARE ABOUT 11% OF OUR EXISTING SHORT-TERM RENTALS FALL IN THIS CATEGORY. THEN WE HAVE BED AND BREAKFAST TWO TO FIVE ROOMS. HERE AGAIN THE HOST LIVES ON SITE AND TWO TO FIVE INDIVIDUAL ROOMS ARE AVAILABLE AS STRs WITH AGAIN THAT LIVE-IN MANAGEMENT. THIS IS A VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE OF THE EXISTING SHORT-TERM RENTALS. >> Chair Downs: VERY SMALL MEANING? >> LESS THAN 2%. >> Chair Downs: THANK YOU. >> THEN WE HAVE VACATION RENTALS. HERE THIS IS OFF-SITE MANAGEMENT. THE FULL HOME IS GENERALLY AVAILABLE AS A SHORT-TERM IT'S THE MOST COMMON TYPE OF EXISTING SHORT-TERM RENTAL IN PLANO. WE HAVE OVER 87% OF OUR EXISTING SHORT-TERM RENTALS FALL IN THIS CATEGORY. SO THIS IS A SUMMARY OF THE THREE TYPES. YOU CAN SEE FOR ALL THREE REGISTRATION WOULD BE REQUIRED. THEY'RE ALL IN HOMES. THEY'RE ALL RESIDENCES AND THE LENGTH OF STAY IS 2 TO 29 DAYS. ONCE YOU GET ABOVE 30, IT'S A LONG-TERM RENTAL. OR 30 OR ABOVE. BUT THE MAIN DIFFERENCES ARE WHETHER THERE'S LIVE-IN OR OFF-SITE MANAGEMENT AND THE NUMBER OF ROOMS AVAILABLE OR WHETHER THE FULL UNIT IS AVAILABLE. THEN THE PROPOSAL TALKS ABOUT LOCATIONS. SO THIS IS FOR YEAR-ROUND RENTALS. SO THE BED AND BREAKFAST ONE ROOM BEING AT THAT SCALE OF JUST BEING THE ONE ROOM AND HAVING THAT ON-SITE MANAGEMENT. TO ALIGN WITH THE PROPOSAL, THESE WOULD BE ALLOWED IN ANY RESIDENCE CITYWIDE AND THERE WOULD BE NO NEED FOR A SPECIFIC-USE PERMIT FOR THESE BUT THEY WOULD BE REQUIRED TO REGISTER. FOR THE TWO TO FIVE-ROOM BED AND BREAKFAST, THESE WOULD BE PERMITTED IN ANY RESIDENCE WHERE A BED AND BREAKFAST OR HOTELS ARE CURRENTLY PERMITTED OR IN A HERITAGE PROPERTY, BY RIGHT. THEY WOULD ALSO BE ALLOWED BY SPECIFIC-USE PERMIT IN OTHER RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS. ALL BUT ONE WOULD REQUIRE A SPECIFIC-USE PERMIT. VACATION RENTALS ARE -- AGAIN, THIS IS THE FULL UNIT BEING AVAILABLE FOR RENTAL. THIS WOULD BE ALLOWED YEAR ROUND BY RIGHT IN ANY RESIDENCE WHERE HOTELS ARE CURRENTLY PERMITTED AND THERE WOULD BE NO SPECIFIC-USE PERMIT OPTION. SO THEN THIS IS ALL FOR YEAR ROUND-ROUND. NEXT IS THE IDEA OF LIMITED OR SEASONAL RENTALS. SO THE TASK FORCE TALKED ABOUT THERE MAY BE SOME INSTANCES WHERE IT COULD BE APPROPRIATE FOR A RESIDENT TO OFFER THEIR HOME TEMPORARILY AS A SHORT-TERM RENTAL. SO PERHAPS FOR OVER THE SUMMER WHILE THEY'RE TRAVELING OR SOMEONE'S IN THE HOSPITAL AND THEY NEED TO CREATE SOME INCOME WHILE SOMEONE IS STAYING IN THE HOSPITAL OR LIVING WITH A SICK FAMILY MEMBER. THOSE WERE THE TYPE DISCUSSED. IF THESE ARE CONSIDERED APPROPRIATE IN PLANO, WE'RE ASKING THE COMMISSION TO THINK ABOUT WHAT TIME PERIOD IS REASONABLE TO OPERATE. IS IT JUST A 30-DAY PERIOD WHERE THEY COULD HAVE AS MANY RENTALS AS THEY CAN FIT IN THAT 30-DAY PERIOD? A 60-DAY PERIOD? A 90-DAY PERIOD? THOSE ARE JUST SOME IDEAS. ALSO ON TOP OF THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO CONSIDER WHETHER A LONGER MINIMUM STAY WOULD BE APPROPRIATE IN THESE SITUATIONS. SO RIGHT NOW THE PROPOSAL IS TWO NIGHTS ACROSS THE BOARD AS A MINIMUM STAY BUT IF WE ALLOW LIMITED OR SEASONAL RENTALS, SHOULD A LONGER LIMITED STAY BE REQUIRED. THIS IS THE SAME CHART ADDING THAT ROW REGARDING LIMITED SEASONAL RENTALS. SO THE BED AND BREAKFAST ONE ROOM, IT'S NOT APPLICABLE BECAUSE THEY'RE ALREADY PERMITTED YEAR-ROUND. BUT BED AND BREAKFAST TWO TO FIVE ROOMS, VACATION RENTALS COULD BE PERMITTED IN ANY RESIDENCE CITYWIDE FOR THIS TIME PERIOD, IF THAT IS THE DESIRE OF THE CITY. WE'RE GOING TO LOOK AT THESE TYPES OF USES A LITTLE CLOSER TO SEE WHERE THEY WOULD BE PERMITTED. SO WE'RE GOING TO START WITH THE BED AND BREAKFAST ONE ROOM. AGAIN, IT'S ON-SITE MANAGEMENT LIVE-IN MANAGEMENT. THESE WOULD BE ALLOWED IN ANY RESIDENCE CITYWIDE. SO WE'RE GOING TO LOOK AT A LOT OF MAPS TONIGHT AND AS WE REVIEW THE MAPS, I JUST WANT TO NOTE TWO IMPORTANT THINGS ABOUT THEM. THE FIRST IS THAT PLANNED DEVELOPMENTS MAY HAVE UNDERLYING PERMISSIONS OR RESTRICTIONS THAT ARE GOING TO CHANGE WHAT WOULD OTHERWISE BE SHOWING ON THAT MAP. SO IF SOMETHING IS ZONED IN A PLANNED DEVELOPMENT DISTRICT, WE WOULD HAVE TO LOOK AT EACH OF THOSE INDIVIDUALLY TO CONFIRM. AND THEN THE OTHER IS THAT THESE MAPS ARE TRYING TO SHOW WHERE RESIDENCES ARE CURRENTLY ALLOWED AS A NEW DEVELOPMENT IN PLANO. SO EITHER ALLOWED BY RIGHT OR ALLOWED BY SPECIFIC-USE PERMIT OR NOT ALLOWED AT ALL. THAT'S THE RESIDENCES, THE SINGLE-FAMILY MULTIFAMILY. WE DIDN'T DISTINGUISH BETWEEN THEM BUT JUST HAVING HOUSING IN THESE AREAS AT ALL IS ALLOWED TO BEGIN WITH. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SHOWING ON THESE MAPS. SO IN THIS EXAMPLE HERE, THE DARK GREEN SHOWS AREAS WHERE THE ZONING ONLY ALLOWS HOUSING BY SPECIFIC-USE PERMIT. THE LIGHT GREEN IS AREAS WHERE HOUSING OF SOME SORT IS ALLOWED BY RIGHT. AND THEN THE WHITE AREA, NO HOUSING IS PERMITTED PER THE BASE ZONING. ON TOP OF THAT, WE'RE ALSO SHOWING ON THESE MAPS FOR EACH TYPE OF SHORT-TERM RENTAL, BED AND BREAKFAST ONE ROOM IS PERMITTED IN THIS CASE IN ALL OF THE GREEN AREAS, BOTH DARK AND LIGHT, BY RIGHT. I KNOW IT'S A LITTLE CONFUSING BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF INFORMATION GOING ON ON THIS MAP. SO, AGAIN, THE TAKEAWAY ON THIS MAP IS THAT HOUSING IN AREAS THAT ARE IN ANY OF THE SHADED GREEN AREAS WOULD BE PERMITTED TO HAVE A ONE-ROOM BED AND BREAKFAST BY RIGHT. SO NEXT IS THE BED AND BREAKFAST TWO TO FIVE ROOMS. THIS IS PROPOSED TO BE ALLOWED, AGAIN, IN ANY RESIDENCE OR BED AND BREAKFAST INN WHERE HOTELS ARE CURRENTLY PERMITTED OR HERITAGE PROPERTY OR ALLOWED BY SPECIFIC-USE PERMIT IN ANY OTHER AREAS OF THE CITY AND POTENTIALLY ALLOWED IN A LIMITED SEASONAL PERIOD ON ANY RESIDENCE IN THE CITY . ALL RIGHT. SO ON THIS MAP THE BEIGE COLOR SHOWS WHERE THE USE COULD BE PERMITTED BY SPECIFIC-USE PERMIT OR AS A SEASONAL RENTAL. AND IN THESE AREAS NEW HOUSING IS PERMITTED BY RIGHT. IN THE DARK GREEN, WHICH IS LARGELY ALONG 121 AND THE DALLAS NORTH TOLLWAY, THESE ARE AREAS WHERE THE USE COULD BE PERMITTED BY RIGHT BUT NEW HOUSING IS ONLY PERMITTED BY SPECIFIC-USE PERMIT. AND THEN THE LIGHT GREEN SHOWS AREAS WHERE THE USE COULD BE PERMITTED BY RIGHT YEAR-ROUND AND NEW HOUSING IS ALSO PERMITTED BY RIGHT. AND THE WHITE AREAS SHOW WHERE NEW HOUSING IS NOT PERMITTED BY RIGHT. BECAUSE THIS PROPOSAL IS TO ALLOW THIS TYPE OF SHORT-TERM RENTAL WHERE HOTELS ARE ALLOWED, WE ALSO SHOWED IN THE PINK COLORS AREAS WHERE THERE'S HOUSING AND THE UNDERLYING ZONING ALLOWS HOTELS. SO THAT OVERLAPS BOTH WITH WHITE AND SOME OF THE SHADED AREAS WHERE IT'S OVERLAPPING WITH WHITE, IT'S LIKELY THAT THOSE ARE PLANNED DEVELOPMENT AREAS. BUT, AGAIN, THERE COULD BE OTHER SITUATIONS HAPPENING. SO, LASTLY, WE HAVE VACATION RENTALS. THESE ARE, AGAIN, PROPOSED TO BE ALLOWED IN ANY RESIDENCE WHERE HOTELS ARE CURRENTLY PERMITTED WITH NO SUP OPTION WITH THE POSSIBILITY OF ALLOWING AS A LIMITED OR SEASONAL SHORT-TERM RENTAL IN ANY RESIDENCE. SO THIS MAP, THE DARK BEIGE SHOWS AREAS WHERE VACATION RENTALS WOULD NOT BE PERMITTED YEAR-ROUND BUT THEY COULD BE POTENTIALLY ALLOWED AS SEASONAL RENTALS. IN ALL THOSE DARK BEIGE AREAS NEW HOUSING IS PERMITTED BY RIGHT. THE DARK GREEN, AGAIN, THIS IS VERY SIMILAR TO THE LAST MAP. IT SHOWS WHERE VACATION RENTALS COULD BE PERMITTED BY RIGHT BUT NEW HOUSING ONLY BY SPECIFIC-USE PERMIT. THE LIGHT GREEN THE USE IS PERMITTED BY RIGHT AND NEW HOUSING PERMITTED BY RIGHT. IN WHITE, NO HOUSING IS PERMITTED. WE HAVE THE SAME PINK, HOUSING WHERE HOTELS ARE PERMITTED. THAT WAS LOOKING AT EACH USE INDIVIDUALLY. WE ALSO HAVE SOME SUMMARY MAPS THAT KIND OF SHOW ALL THREE USES COMBINED. SO THIS MAP HERE IS ALL THE PINK TAN, THESE ARE AREAS WHERE BED AND BREAKFAST ONE ROOM WOULD BE ALLOWED BY RIGHT YEAR ROUND. BED AND BREAKFAST TWO TO FIVE ROOMS WOULD BE ALLOWED ONLY BY SPECIFIC-USE PERMIT YEAR-ROUND. POTENTIALLY COULD BE ALLOWED BY RIGHT AS A LIMITED OR SEASONAL RENTAL. AND THEN VACATION RENTALS WOULD NOT BE PERMITTED YEAR-ROUND BUT COULD BE PERMITTED AS A LIMITED OR SEASONAL RENTAL. AND, AGAIN, THESE ARE ALL AREAS WHERE HOUSING IS PERMITTED BY RIGHT. THIS NEXT ONE JUST HAS A LITTLE BIT SHOWING IN ORANGE. THESE ARE AREAS WHERE BED AND BREAKFAST ONE ROOM AND BED AND BREAKFAST TWO TO FIVE ROOMS WOULD BE PERMITTED BY RIGHT. VACATION RENTALS ARE DISALLOWED YEAR-ROUND BUT COULD BE ALLOWED ON A LIMITED OR SEASONAL BASIS. AND HOUSING IS PERMITTED BY RIGHT. AND THEN WE HAVE, AGAIN, THE AREAS ALONG 121 AND DALLAS NORTH TOLLWAY WHERE NEW HOUSING DEVELOPMENT IS PERMITTED ONLY BY SPECIFIC-USE PERMIT AND IN THESE AREAS ALL THREE TYPES WOULD BE ALLOWED BY RIGHT YEAR-ROUND. AND THEN, LASTLY, THE AREAS WHERE NEW HOUSING DEVELOPMENT IS PERMITTED BY RIGHT AND ALL THREE TYPES COULD BE PERMITTED BY RIGHT, YEAR-ROUND. WE ALSO HAVE A COMBINED MAP IN YOUR PACKET. I BELIEVE THAT'S ATTACHMENT D1. SO AS MENTIONED AT THE BEGINNING, ALL SHORT-TERM RENTALS EXISTING AT THE TIME OF THE INTERIM BAN ARE ALLOWED TO CONTINUE OPERATING. AT THE TIME OF THE INTERIM BAN WE HAD 464 SHORT-TERM RENTALS IDENTIFIED BY OUR CONTRACT WITH DECKER TECHNOLOGIES. UNDER THE PROPOSAL, 50, THAT'S THE TOTAL NUMBER OF BED AND BREAKFAST ONE ROOMS, WOULD BE CONSIDERED CONFORMING IF THEY REGISTER AS A SHORT-TERM RENTAL. THERE WOULD BE NO NEED TO HAVE NON-CONFORMING OR GRANDFATHERED BED AND BREAKFAST ONE ROOM. UNDER THE PROPOSAL, THERE WOULD BE ZERO BED AND BREAKFAST TWO TO FIVE ROOMS. THAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED CONFORMING. THERE WOULD BE SEVEN BED AND BREAKFAST TWO TO FIVE ROOMS THAT WOULD BE NON-CONFORMING. BUT THEY COUD BECOME CONFORMING IF THEY APPLY FOR A SPECIFIC-USE PERMIT AND ARE GRANTED AND REGISTERED. UNDER THE PROPOSAL, THERE ARE 79 IDENTIFIED VACATION RENTALS THAT WOULD BECOME CONFORMING. BUT THERE ARE 328 OF THE VACATION RENTALS THAT WOULD BE NON-CONFORMING IN THEIR LOCATION BUT THEY COULD BE CONSIDERED -- THEY COULD BE PERMITTED SEASONALLY IF WE GO IN THAT DIRECTION. THIS IS A MAP OF THOSE LOCATIONS. I KNOW IT'S VERY BUSY, HARD TO READ BUT IT IS AVAILABLE IN YOUR PACKET IN ATTACHMENT D5. BUT THE BLUE LOCATIONS ARE WHERE THE CONFORMING SHORT-TERM RENTALS ARE AND THE RED ARE NON-CONFORMING. SO ADDITIONALLY, THE STANDARDS PROPOSE SOME PROHIBITED RENTALS. SO RENTING OF SIX OR MORE INDIVIDUAL ROOMS IN A RESIDENCE BY SEPARATE CONTRACT WOULD BE PROHIBITED AS WOULD BE RENTING A SHORT-TERM RENTAL FOR ONLY ONE NIGHT. SO AT LEAST A TWO-NIGHT MINIMUM FOR ALL OF THEM. AND THEN LAST TIME WE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT BACKYARD COTTAGES. SO BACKYARD COTTAGES ARE SMALL RESIDENTIAL BUILDINGS THAT MAY BE BUILT IN THE BACKYARD OF A MAIN HOME IN SOME CONDITIONS. UNDER THE PROPOSAL, A BACKYARD COTTAGE WOULD BE CONSIDERED A SINGLE RESIDENCE WITH SOMEBODY AT HOME FOR THE PURPOSE OF DETERMINING WHAT TYPE OF SHORT-TERM RENTAL IT IS. BUT THE COTTAGE AND THE MAIN HOME COULD NOT BE RENTED AS TWO SEPARATE VACATION RENTALS. WE HAVE SOME EXAMPLES ON THE SCREEN AND DIFFERENT CONFIGURATIONS OF A BACKYARD COTTAGE SO THE HOST MAY LIVE IN THE MAIN HOME AND RENT OUT THE BACKYARD COTTAGE OR VICE VERSA. THOSE WOULD BE CONSIDERED A BED AND BREAKFAST ONE ROOM IF THEY RENT OUT MULTIPLE ROOMS, THEY COULD HAVE DIFFERENT -- AGAIN, LIVE IN THE MAIN HOME OR LIVE IN THE BACKYARD COTTAGE. THEY COULD ALSO RENT BOTH THE BACKYARD COTTAGE AND THE MAIN HOME AS ONE SHORT-TERM RENTAL BUT NOT AS TWO SEPARATE SHORT-TERM RENTALS OR VACATION RENTALS. THERE'S ALSO SOME PROPOSED CHANGES TO THE DEFINITIONS OF ASSEMBLY HALL, INDOOR COMMERCIAL AMUSEMENT, AND BOARDING ROOMING HOUSE AS WELL AS SOME MINOR AMENDMENTS TO PARKING, WHICH IS PROPOSED TO BE ADDRESSED AS A MORE LONG-TERM COMPREHENSIVE STUDY BECAUSE WE SIMPLY DON'T HAVE THE TIME TO DO IT BEFORE THE INTERIM BAN EXPIRES. THERE'S ALSO INFORMATION IN THE PACKET FROM SOME PREVIOUS QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMISSION REGARDING LIVE-IN MANAGEMENT, HOW FREQUENTLY THE LIMITED OR SEASONAL WOULD BE, WHETHER IT'S ANNUAL OR ON A ROLLING BASIS, HOW DO WE MANAGE SHORT-TERM RENTAL REQUIREMENTS, AND THEN HOW OPERATORS WERE MADE AWARE OF THE STUDY. WE CAN DISCUSS THOSE MORE IF YOU HAVE MORE QUESTIONS. AND THE NEXT STEPS. SO TONIGHT WE'D LIKE TO GET SOME DIRECTION FROM YOU ON THE ORDINANCE LANGUAGE. AND THEN WE, AT OUR NEXT MEETING ON APRIL 1st, WE'RE SCHEDULED FOR A PUBLIC HEARING. AGAIN THAT WILL BE AT DAVIS LIBRARY AND THE APRIL 22 COUNCIL MEETING WILL ALSO BE AT DAVIS LIBRARY. ALL OF THIS IS TO COMPLETE THE PROCESS PRIOR TO THE EXPIRATION OF THE INTERIM BAN ON MAY 15th. THERE'S MORE INFORMATION AT PLANO.GOV/STR. WE'LL CONTINUE TO POST MEETING INFORMATION ON THAT WEBSITE AND DRAFTS OF BOTH THE ZONING AND REGISTRATION ORDINANCES. SO TONIGHT WE ARE SEEKING DIRECTION ON THESE FOUR QUESTIONS HERE. LARGELY DID WE MEET THE INTENT OF THE SHORT-TERM RENTAL TASK FORCE? WHAT TIME PERIODS FOR BOTH THE LENGTH AND THE MINIMUM STAY OF A LIMITED SEASONAL RENTAL. AND THEN DID WE MISS ANY OF THE GOALS OF THE STUDY. BUT I KNOW THERE ARE SOME SPEAKERS BUT I AM HAPPY TO TAKE QUESTIONS AT THIS TIME, IF YOU WOULD LIKE. >> Chair Downs: THANK YOU. SO I THINK LET'S -- IF YOU GUYS ARE OKAY WITH IT, APPROACH IT THIS WAY. LET'S LISTEN TO THE SPEAKERS, BECAUSE THEY MAY BRING UP POINTS WE THEN WANT TO ASK STAFF ABOUT. SO I JUST THINK IT WILL WORK BETTER FOR US IN TERMS OF THE FLOW FOR STAFF AND EVERYBODY ELSE. ALSO IN CASE THERE'S A LEGAL QUESTION, I WOULD RATHER EVERYONE HAVE HAD A CHANCE TO SPEAK VERSUS US HAVE TO GO INTO EXEC AND THEY HAVE TO WAIT AROUND ON US. I THINK WE'RE GOING TO APPROACH IT THAT DIRECTION. THIS IS NOT A PUBLIC HEARING SO TECHNICALLY THERE'S NOT A BANG THE GAVEL, WHO'S OUR NEXT SPEAKER KIND OF THING. THE REASON FOR THAT IS WE'RE GIVING GUIDANCE TO STAFF TONIGHT. WE'RE NOT MAKING A DECISION. SO THERE WILL BE A PUBLIC HEARING WHERE THERE WILL BE A GAVEL AND NOW'S YOUR CHANCE TO SPEAK AND THEN WE MAKE A DECISION THAT'S GOING TO GO TO COUNCIL. SO, WE HAVE 23 SPEAKERS THAT ARE SIGNED UP TO SPEAK. HISTORICALLY, AND MANY OF YOU GUYS HAVE BEEN HERE BEFORE WHEN I TALKED ABOUT THIS AND I SAID WE WANT TO HEAR YOU SPEAK. YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY. YOU HAVE HAD ONE BEFORE AND YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE MORE. IF YOU'RE SPEAKING AND WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO SAY IS THE SAME THING AS THE PERSON BEFORE YOU, OKAY BUT IT DOESN'T DO ANYTHING FOR US. WE'RE LOOKING FOR UNIQUE, NEW INFORMATION FROM EACH SPEAKER. DOESN'T MEAN I'M NOT GOING TO LET YOU SPEAK BUT WITH 23 OF YOU WE ARE GOING TO KIND OF CUT THE TIME DOWN A LITTLE BIT JUST SO WE CAN GET THROUGH THE PROCESS. AGAIN, WE'RE NOT MAKING A DECISION TONIGHT BUT WE DO WANT TO GET YOUR INFORMATION. IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING WE HAVE ONE PERSON HERE THAT'S KIND OF AN ENGLISH SECOND LANGUAGE SO I THINK I'D LIKE THAT PERSON TO GO FIRST AND WE'LL LET HER SPEAK. AND THEN RATHER THAN TWO MINUTES, LET'S LET HER DO WHAT SHE NEEDS TO DO. AND THEN EVERYONE ELSE, IF YOU COULD KEEP YOUR COMMENTS TO TWO MINUTES. IF YOU GIVE ME TIME BACK AND WAIT OUTSIDE, I MIGHT SLIP YOU3 SOME MONEY ON THE WAY OUT OR SOMETHING. [LAUGHTER] WE ALL WANT TO HAVE DISCUSSION AROUND THIS BUT WE ALL ALSO DON'T WANT TO SIT HERE UNTIL 10:00 TONIGHT. ALL RIGHT. VERY GOOD. SO LET'S START WITH OUR -- AND GO TO THE REST. KEEP YOUR COMMENTS TO A COUPLE OF MINUTES, IF YOU WOULD. >> I'M CALLING DOWN DONELLALA SANTERRA. >> Chair Downs: IF SHE CALLS YOUR NAME, COME DOWN FRONT. THERE'S LOTS OF EMPTY CHAIRS. WE'RE NOT WAITING AND YOU'RE CLOSE TO THE MIC. >> HI, EVERYBODY. >> Chair Downs: DON'T BE NERVOUS. IT'S OKAY. TAKE YOUR TIME. I'M NOT GOING TO BE UP HERE WITH A TIMER AND LOOKING AT YOU. TAKE YOUR TIME. >> THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY. THANK YOU FOR BEING THE FIRST. I'M GOING TO DO MY BEST, OKAY? MY NAME IS [INDISCERNIBLE] I LIVE IN 1608 [INDISCERNIBLE] TRAIL. IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT RESPONSIBLE OWNERS OF THE MAJORITY OF THE 360 SHORT-TERM RENTALS IN PLANO, WE ALSO WANT TO REMOVE THE FEW MAYBE TEN SHORT-TERM RENTALS THAT DON'T úM. IF THE REGISTRATION SYSTEM WASN'T ESTABLISHED BEFORE NOW, ALL OF THE CONCERN WAS AT THAT POINT BECAUSE THIS WILL ALLOW NON-COMPLIANCE SHORT-TERM RENTALS TO GO OUT OF THEIR OWN. IF THEY HAVE AN ASSISTANT REGULATOR AND THEY'RE NOT REALLY DOING GOOD CARE OF THE SHORT-TERM RENTAL, THEY DISAPPEAR. AND LEFT US, THE PEOPLE THAT REALLY TAKE CARE OF OUR SHORT-TERM RENTAL CONTINUE TO PUT A VALUE TO THE CITY AND TO OUR NEIGHBORS. AND CONTINUE TO BE EXCELLENT SHORT-TERM RENTALS IN PLANO LIKE PLANO IS THE CITY OF EXCELLENCE. UNFORTUNATELY, WE ARE FACING DRASTIC AND UNFAIR REFORMS THAT SEEMS TO IMPACT GOOD SHORT-TERM RENTAL HOSTS. MORE TO THE GOOD ONES THAN THE BAD ONES. UNLIKE NEIGHBORING CITIES LIKE RICHARDSON, ALLEN, FRISCO THAT ESTABLISHED RULES AND CONTAIN CONSTANT OVERSIGHT TO ENSURE ALL RESIDENTS BENEFIT. IT APPEARS OUR APPROACH WAS IN REVERSE. IT IS WHAT IT IS. WE CANNOT REVERSE THE TIME BUT I WANT TO HIGHLIGHT TWO KEY POINTS REGARDING THE PROPOSAL FOR ME ON THE TASK FORCE COMMISSION. I SAY THAT BECAUSE FOR 18 MEMBERS REPRESENT THAT COMMISSION, ONLY THREE -- NO, I DON'T THINK MORE THAN THAT REPRESENT US. MY FOCUS MUST BE ON THE CLASSIFICATION OF THE TYPE OF SHORT-TERM RENTAL AND THE LIMIT OF THE SEASONS. IT'S A FUNDAMENTAL ASPECT TO DEMAND A CLOSER LOOK. I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT IS PROPOSED OF CHANGING THE NAME OF SHORT-TERM RENTAL FOR ONE ROOM FOR A BED AND BREAKFAST ONE ROOM. I REPEAT. IF A SINGLE-ROOM SHORT-TERM RENTAL WHERE REALLY THEY DON'T PROVIDE BREAKFAST, WHY THEY CHANGE THE NAME IN THAT PRESENTATION? FOR ME IT'S SOMETHING INCONSISTENT BETWEEN THE NAME AND THE ACTUAL APPROACH OF THAT OFFER. GO TO THINK ABOUT THAT. MY OTHER TYPE OF SHORT-TERM RENTAL, I WANT TO CONSIDER THIS INFORMATION. IN 2021 TO 2022 THAT YEAR IN PLANO HAD 3.5 MILLION OVERNIGHT VISITORS COMPARED TO ARLINGTON THAT WAS 40 MILLION VISITORS A YEAR. WE SHOULD NOT CONSIDER PLANO AS A VACATION CITY. IT'S A CITY THAT CAN BE VISITED BUT LACK THE TOURIST ATTRACTIONS TO BE LABELED A VACATION DESTINATION. FOR EXAMPLE, WE DON'T HAVE A BEACH OR SKI FACILITIES OR EVEN WE DON'T HAVE EVEN A BIG ENTERTAINMENT PARK LIKE ARLINGTON. WE ARE TRULY A CITY OF EXCELLENCE IN THE SUBURB OF DALLAS. THAT IS WHAT WE ARE. HAVING CLASSIFIED THESE, NOW I GO AGAIN FOR THE CLASSIFICATION OF THE SHORT-TERM RENTAL, THEY CHANGE THE SHORT-TERM RENTAL ENTIRE HOME FOR A VACATION RENTAL. AND, AGAIN, GO TO THE SAME POINT. THEY DON'T HAVE ANY RELATION BETWEEN THEIR REAL NAME AND THINKING ABOUT WE ARE IN PLANO. VACATION RENTALS DON'T MAKE SENSE. IT ALSO DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO IMPOSE TIME AND SEASON LIMITATION IN PLANO WHERE THERE'S NO SPECIFIC SEASON THAT ATTRACT PEOPLE BECAUSE WE ARE NOT A VACATION HUB. PEOPLE COME HERE YEAR-ROUND. WITH SOME MONTHS AND DATES MORE VISITED THAN OTHERS BUT WE CAN [INDISCERNIBLE] A BLOCK OF TIME TO SAY THIS IS WHAT WE WANT TO PICK FOR OUR SHORT-TERM RENTAL THAT IS PROPOSED. AND WE DO NOT ATTRACT VISITORS IN A SPECIFIC PERIOD OF TIME. THIS IS JUST THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG AMONG MANY OTHER INCONSISTENCIES THAT I FOUND. THIS TYPE OF SHORT-TERM RENTALS AND THEIR TIME LIMITATION AND FUNDAMENTAL ASPECT IN THE ORDINANCE AND ZONING REGULATION FOR BOTH EXISTING AND FUTURE SHORT-TERM RENTAL TO PROGRESS FAIRLY FOR ALL THOSE INVOLVED. THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE WITH MY ENGLISH. HAVE A GREAT NIGHT. THANK YOU. >> Chair Downs: YOU DID GREAT. THANK YOU. [APPLAUSE] ALL RIGHT. THAT TOOK COURAGE. ALL RIGHT. LET'S START MOVING. COUPLE OF MINUTES. >> BILL FRANCE FOLLOWED BY BILL BAKER AND STEVEN CORAKOS. >> Chair Downs: GOOD EVENING, MR. FRANCE. >> GOOD EVENING, DISTINGUISHED LEADERS OF OUR PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION. MY NAME IS BILL FRANCE AND TONIGHT I'M HERE REPRESENTING THE PLANO TEXAS NEIGHBORHOOD COALITION TO PRESENT OUR PERSPECTIVE ON THE PROPOSED SHORT-TERM RENTAL ZONING ORDINANCE. AT THIS TIME I ASK ALL OF OUR SUPPORTERS TO PLEASE STAND. A RIGOROUSLY-ENGINEERED SURVEY BY THE CITY HAS SHOWN THAT 74%, A SUPERMAJORITY OF OUR POPULATION WOULD BE UNCOMFORTABLE OR VERY UNCOMFORTABLE HAVING ONE STR ON THEIR BLOCK. THERE ARE LESS THAN 500 IN THE CITY RIGHT NOW. HOW DO YOU THINK OUR RESIDENTS WILL FEEL WHEN THEY FIND OUT THAT EVERY HOME ON THEIR BLOCK CAN BECOME A SHORT-TERM RENTAL? INSTEAD OF KEEPING THE PEACE AND MAINTAINING THE SANCTITY OF A RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD, WHICH IS THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF ZONING, WE ARE OPENING THE GATES FOR COUNTLESS NUMBER OF NOT RESIDENTS BUT TRANSIENTS TO INVADE OUR NEIGHBORHOODS AND DISRUPT OUR COMMUNITIES, WHICH WE HAVE A COUNTLESS NUMBER OF EVIDENCE THAT HAS BEEN PRESENTED TO CITY COUNCIL. LET'S NOT DOUBLE DOWN ON IRREVERSIBLE MISTAKE THAT WAS MADE IN THE PAST BY ALLOWING HESE TO CRACK THROUGH THE RULES THAT HAVE BEEN ESTABLISHED BY THE SENSIBLE PEOPLE WHO ARE SITTING UP ON THIS DAIS TONIGHT. PLEASE REMOVE AT LEAST TWO PROVISIONS FROM THIS PROPOSAL. THE ONES THAT WILL ENABLE ANYONE TO HAVE BY RIGHT A SHORT-TERM RENTAL WITHOUT FIRST HAVING A SPECIFIC-USE PERMIT THAT WOULD COME BEFORE A BOARD LIKE YOURSELF TO SAY IS THAT REASONABLE AND ACCEPTABLE WITHOUT DESTROYING THE FABRIC OF OUR COMMUNITY, WHICH WE BELIEVE IS THE SOLE PURPOSE OF BEING ABLE TO LIVE TOGETHER IN PEACE AND COMMUNITY. IF IT'S ACCEPTED BY THE NEIGHBORS, THEN BY ALL MEANS WE INVITE THIS. BUT IF THE NEIGHBORS DON'T WANT THIS, WHAT IS A NEIGHBORHOOD IF IT'S NOT THE NEIGHBORS? AND WE SEE THIS AS OUTSIDE INVESTORS. AND IRRESPECTIVE OF THE FINE PEOPLE IN THIS ROOM TONIGHT, THEY ARE ALL GRANDFATHERED. SO WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS NEW SHORT-TERM RENTALS AND THE LAW STATES THAT WE ARE ALLOWED TO SAY NO MORE NEW SHORT-TERM RENTALS. AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE ASKING. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME AND CONSIDERATION. [APPLAUSE] >> Chair Downs: THANK YOU, MR. FRANCE. AS THE NEXT PERSON COMING UP, WHO IS AFTER THAT? >> BILL BAKER FOLLOWED BY STEVEN CORAKOS AND ELENA BURKE. >> Chair Downs: GOOD EVENING SIR. GO AHEAD. >> GOOD MORNING OR GOOD AFTERNOON OR GOOD EVENING AS IT IS NOW, CHAIRMAN AND MEMBERS. MY NAME IS BILL BAKER AND 40 YEARS AGO MY FAMILY MOVED TO PLANO KNOWING LITTLE ABOUT NORTH TEXAS. OUR REALTOR TOLD US PLANO WAS A GREAT PLACE TO RAISE CHILDREN. WE BOUGHT OUR FIRST HOUSE. 20 YEARS AFTER THAT, WE MOVED OUT OF STATE WITH A JOB. WE RETURNED TO PLANO IN '19 AND '21, 20 YEARS LATER. WHY? THIS IS THE STORY I WANT TO TELL. PLANO HAS NEIGHBORHOODS THAT OFFERED WHAT WE WANTED WHILE OTHERS DID NOT. OUR NEIGHBORHOOD IS BEAUTIFUL. IT'S FULL OF MAGNIFICENT TREES, OUR OWN PARK, A WINDING CREEK WITH AN ADJACENT WALKING PATH. IT HAS AN ACTIVE WOMEN'S CLUB WITH MORE THAN 100 LADIES. IT'S BEEN THERE FOR 31 YEARS. IT HAS AN ACTIVE HOA. IT SPONSORS THINGS LIKE EASTER IN THE PARK, BARBECUE COOKOFF, A FALL FLING, A HOLIDAY IN THE PARK, AND OTHERS. OUR NEIGHBORHOOD IS QUIET. OUR NEIGHBORHOOD IS SAFE. IT'S FULL OF FRIENDS WHO ENJOY CONNECTING. I WANT IT TO REMAIN THAT WAY. SHORT-TERM RENTALS CAN DISRUPT A NEIGHBORHOOD. >> 30 SECONDS. >> THE ORDINANCES REGARDING SHORT-TERM RENTALS MUST PREVENT THAT FROM HAPPENING. THANKS FOR LISTENING TONIGHT. >> Chair Downs: THANK YOU, SIR. [APPLAUSE] >> STEVEN CORAKOS, ELENA BURKE FOLLOWED BY LAUREN DYKES. >> GOOD EVENING. I LIVE AT 2617 BARRINGTON DRIVE AND I HAVE ENJOYED PLANO FOR 21 YEARS. FIRST OF ALL, I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND PATIENCE IN WORKING WITH ALL CITIZENS IN PLANO AND THE SHORT-TERM RENTAL TASK FORCE IN BRINGING THIS ISSUE TO RESOLUTION. THE LAST TIME I WAS IN FRONT OF YOU WAS MAY 8, 2023. MY ASK IS THE SAME TODAY. FOLLOW THE ARLINGTON MODEL AND RECOMMEND THAT STRs CANNOT OPERATE IN SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS. IN REVIEWING THE DRAFT ZONING ORDINANCE, TWO ITEMS ARE IN CONFLICT WITH THIS ASK. ONE, DEFINING A ONE-ROOM BEDROOM BED AND BREAKFAST REIDENTIAL RENTAL AS AN STR. AND, TWO, ALLOWING SEASONAL RENTALS OF STRs IN RESIDENTIAL AREAS. THESE AMENDMENTS WOULD ALLOW EVERY HOUSE IN PLANO TO BECOME AN STR BY RIGHT, WHICH IS THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT WE'VE BEEN ASKING FOR THE PAST TWO YEARS. I LIVE IN GLEN MEADOWS RIGHT NEXT TO THE SHOPS AT WILLOW BEND. I APPLAUD YOU IN GUIDING THE CITY COUNCIL THAT PAVES THE WAY FOR THE REDEVELOPMENT OF THAT MALL INCLUDING THE ADDITION OF HOTEL AND RENTAL PROPERTY . LOOKING AT THAT PROJECT YOU HAVE ALREADY ENFORCED WHAT WE'RE ASKING. SPECIFIC AREAS OF THE CITY DESIGNATED FOR RENTALS AND ENTERTAINMENT SEPARATE FROM SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS. THE ARLINGTON MODEL. LET'S TIGHTEN THE ZONING ORDINANCE TO DO THE SAME. THANK YOU. >> Chair Downs: THANK YOU, SIR. [APPLAUSE] >> ELENA BURKE, LAUREN DYKES, AND TATYANA RAMIREZ. >> GOOD EVENING, MEMBERS OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING. MY NAME IS ELENA BURKE AND I HAVE LIVED IN MY PLANO NEIGHBORHOOD FOR 30 YEARS. AND I DEARLY LOVE IT. IT IS A DIVERSE NEIGHBORHOOD. MY NEIGHBORS ARE WELCOMING AND FAMILIAR. AND MOST IMPORTANTLY WE KNOW EACH OTHER. WE TRUST EACH OTHER. WE HELP EACH OTHER. AS A MEMBER OF THE TEXAS NEIGHBORHOOD COALITION I'M COMPLETELY OPPOSED TO SHORT-TERM RENTALS IN SINGLE-FAMILY NEIGHBORHOODS. WE HAVE NO ISSUE WITH LONG-TERM RENTALS OF WHICH THERE ARE SEVERAL IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD. AND THESE PEOPLE ACTUALLY BECOME PART OF THE FABRIC OF OUR COMMUNITY. OVER 70% OF PLANO SURVEYED RESPONDENTS DO NOT WANT AN STR ON THEIR BLOCK. JUST 72 HOURS AGO, GOVERNOR GREG ABBOTT PURCHASING OVER 40% OF ALL SINGLE-FAMILY HOMES IN THE U.S. THESE INCLUDE LLCs WHICH TURN THOSE HOMES INTO STRs. TEXAS LEADS THE NATION IN HOME PURCHASES BY INVESTORS CONTRIBUTING TO THE DEGRADATION OF THE COMMUNITY FABRIC OF OUR RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD. ABBOTT WILL ADD THIS ISSUE NOT NEXT LEGISLATIVE SESSION. THE ACTIONS OF A STRICT ORDINANCE THAT BANS SHORT-TERM RENTALS FROM SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS COMPOUNDS THE PROBLEM BY REPLACING LONG-TERM RESIDENTS AND NEIGHBORS WITH TRANSIENT STRANGERS WHO HAVE NO STAKE IN OUR NEIGHBORHOODS. I GUARANTEE NONE OF YOU WOULD WANT AN STR NEXT DOOR TO YOUR HOME. NEITHER DO MOST OF US. I AM FIGHTING FOR THE HEALTH AND THE WELFARE OF OUR NEIGHBORHOODS IN THE CITY OF PLANO AND I HOPE TO SEE THIS BOARD DO THE SAME. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME AND YOUR ATTENTION. [APPLAUSE] >> LAUREN, TATIANA, AND MARK. >> GOOD EVENING. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME AND YOUR ATTENTION TONIGHT. MY NAME IS LAUREN AND I AM A PROUD RESIDENT OF OAKWOOD GLEN. I'M A WIFE AND MOTHER OF TWO GIRLS, REAGAN AND CHARLIE. A LITTLE OVER A YEAR AGO, FEBRUARY 2023, WE HAD A VERY HORRIFIC EVENT HAPPEN WHERE OVER 20 GUNSHOTS RANG OUT ON OUR STREET AS A RESULT OF A PARTY THAT HAPPENED AT A SHORT-TERM RENTAL. IN PREPARING FOR TONIGHT, I LOOKED AT THE STRATEGIC VISION FOR PLANO. IT READS, PLANO IS A GLOBAL ECONOMIC LEADER, BONDED BY A SHARED SENSE OF COMMUNITY, WHERE RESIDENTS EXPERIENCE UNPARALLELED QUALITY OF LIFE. SHORT-TERM RENTALS IN OUR SINGLE-FAMILY NEIGHBORHOODS DO NOT ACHIEVE THIS STRATEGIC VISION. ONE OF THE PILLARS OF THAT VISION STATES THE IMPORTANCE OF SAFE, VIBRANT NEIGHBORHOODS. SHORT-TERM RENTALS ARE NOT PART OF CREATING NOR MAINTAINING SAFE, VIBRANT NEIGHBORHOODS. THEY'RE NOT APPROPRIATE FOR SINGLE-FAMILY HOME NEIGHBORHOODS AND I URGE YOU TO CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE THAT WOULD KEEP THE CHARACTER OF OAKWOOD GLEN AND MANY OTHER NEIGHBORHOODS INTACT. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. [ APPLAUSE ] >> Chair Downs: THANK YOU. >> TATIANA, MARK, AND KATHERINE. >> Chair Downs: GOOD EVENING. >> MY NAME IS TATIANA, I LIVE AT 6521 TIM TIMBERWOLF TRAIL. I'VE BEEN A PLANO RESIDENT FOR 20 YEARS. OUR STREET HAS 14 HOUSES, TWO OF WHICH ARE SHORT-TERM RENTALS. I WILL TALK ABOUT THREE MAJOR PROBLEMS WITH THESE RENTALS IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. FIRST OF ALL, OCCUPANCY. OCCUPANCY IS IMPOSSIBLE TO CONTROL. THESE TWO HOUSES COMBINED CAN TAKE UP TO 30 OVERNIGHT GUESTS IN ONE SINGLE DAY. THEY CAN HAVE EXTRA PEOPLE AT ANY POINT DURING THEIR STAY. IF THE EVENT IS POSTED ONLINE THERE WILL BE AN OVERFLOW OF ADDITIONAL UNEXPECTED GUESTS. SECOND, PROPERTY USE. PROPERTY USE GOES WELL BEYOND JUST BEING A HOTEL. THESE PROPERTIES HAVE BEEN USED AS VENUES. MANY OF THEIR ACTIVITIES HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH HOTEL STAYS AND ARE HIGHLY QUESTIONABLE AND SKETCHY. THESE GUESTS ARE SOMETIMES CLIENTS AND RUN SIDE BUSINESSES. THEIR ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES ARE HIDDEN IN PLAIN SIGHT. THIRD, THE INVASION OF OUR PRIVACY AND THE CONSTANT DANGER. BEFORE THE ACTUAL BOOKINGS HAPPEN THERE IS NEIGHBORHOOD SCOUTING AND CAN TAKE WEEKS. CARS COMING AND GOING TAKING VID VIDEOS AND PICTURES OF EVERYTHING INCLUDING US. PEOPLE IN PARKED CARS ACTIVELY WATCH US FOR LONG PERIODS OF TIME. LITERALLY HUNDREDS OF STRANGERS KNOW WHERE WE LIVE, OUR CARS, OUR DAILY ROUTINES, AND WHAT WE LOOK LIKE. THE FEAR OF REVENGE FROM EITHER THE GUESTS OR THE OWNERS IS VERY REAL. PLEASE DO NOT ALLOW SHORT-TERM RENTALS IN SINGLE-FAMILY NEIGHBORHOODS. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. >> Chair Downs: THANK YOU. [ APPLAUSE ] >> MARK, KATHERINE PARKER, CHRISTY LEWIS. >> THANK YOU. I LIVE AT 2408 IN PLANO, I'VE LIVED HERE FOR 30 YEARS IN A SINGLE-FAMILY NEIGHBORHOOD, SF6, 8,000-FOOT LOTS, NO HOAS. SO WE HAVE ISSUES WITH STRs. P&Z HAS BEEN PRESENTED WITH THE WORK PRODUCT FROM THE SHORT-TERM RENTAL TASK FORCE, WHICH I WAS A MEMBER OF. THE TASK FORCE FINDINGS THAT THE SUPERMAJORITY OF NOT EVERYONE FAGREED WITH EVERYONE, BUT THE SUPERMAJORITY AGREED WITH THREE MAIN THINGS. NUMBER ONE, REGISTERING CURRENT SHORT-TERM RENTALS. NUMBER 2, LIMITING SHORT-TERM RENTALS TO COMMERCIAL OR ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICTS AND NUMBER 3, GIVING THE CITY TOOLS TO GET RID OF BAD ACTORS. THESE FINDING WERE REPORTED TO THE PUBLIC AT THE PUBLIC OPEN HOUSES AND WE ASKED FOR INFORMATION AND A SUPERMAJORITY OF THE PUBLIC ALSO AGREED WITH THAT. SO, FINDING NUMBER 2, WHICH WAS THE LIMITING SHORT-TERM RENTALS TO COMMERCIAL DISTRICTS IS IN YOUR PURVIEW. AND I WOULD ARGUE THAT A PORTION OF NUMBER 3 IS GIVING THE CITY TOOLS IS PARTLY IN YOUR BAILIWICK TOO. WHERE WE ARE IS MOST OF THE PROPOSED AMENDMENTS THAT WERE PRESENTED BY STAFF, I DON'T BELIEVE THEY REPRESENT THE SWEPT INTENT OF THE TASK FORCE RECOMMENDATIONS. IT WAS ASKED DID THEY MEET RECOMMENDATIONS. THE ANSWER IS NO. THESE PROPOSALS WOULD ACTUALLY DO THE OPPOSITE. BY GIVING A RIGHT FOR ALL 73,000 RESIDENTIAL UNITS IN THE CITY TO BECOME AN STR. I URGE THE PLANNING COMMISSION TO REJECT THE PROPOSED ZONING AMENDMENTS AS PRESENTED AND INSTRUCT THE STAFF TO REDRAFT THE AMENDMENTS TO REFLECT WHAT THE CITIZENS CLEARLY STATE THAT THEY WANT. A LIMITATION ON ANY NEW SHORT-TERM RENTALS IN THE CITY IN SINGLE-FAMILY DISTRICTS. I KNOW THERE'S PRESSURE TO GET THIS DONE, BUT THEY CAN EXTEND THE INTERIM BAN FOR A PERIOD OF TIME. LET'S DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME INSTEAD OF TRYING TO BAND-AID IT LATER AFTER YOU'VE GIVEN A RIGHT TO EVERYONE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. [ APPLAUSE ] >> Chair Downs: THANK YOU. >> KATHERINE PARKER, CHRISTY LEWIS, ANNIE HILL. >> GOOD EVENING, COMMISSIONERS, CITY STAFF. I'M KATHERINE PARKER. MY HUSBAND AND I LIVE AT 2111 WILLOW BROOK WAY, PLANO. I'M A MEMBER OF THE PLANO CHAPTER OF THE TEXAS NEIGHBORHOOD COALITION. AND I'M HERE TONIGHT ASKING YOU TO BAN ALL SHORT-TERM RENTALS IN SINGLE-FAMILY NEIGHBORHOODS. IN PARTICULAR, I'M OPPOSED TO THE ONE-ROOM AND SEASONAL SHORT-TERM RENTAL IN THIS PROPOSED ZONING ORDINANCE. THESE TWO PROVISIONS WOULD ALLOW EVERY HOUSE IN PLANO TO BECOME A SHORT-TERM RENTAL BY RIGHT. THIS IS EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT WE'VE BEEN ASKING THE CITY TO DO FOR THE PAST TWO YEARS. MY HUSBAND AND I PURCHASED OUR HOME IN A SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD WITH THE EXPECTATION THAT WE WOULD LIVE WITH NEIGHBORS, NOT TRANSIENTS. I AM NOT ALONE. THE CITY SURVEYED ITS RESIDENTS AND FOUND THAT 74% OF THE RESPONDENTS WOULD BE MODERATELY OR VERY UNCOMFORTABLE HAVING JUST ONE SHORT-TERM RENTAL ON THEIR BLOCK. PLEASE LISTEN TO YOUR RESIDENTS. REMOVE FROM THIS ZONING ORDINANCE ALL PROVISIONS THAT ALLOW SHORT-TERM RENTALS IN SINGLE-FAMILY NEIGHBORHOODS. THANK YOU. >> Chair Downs: THANK YOU. [ APPLAUSE ] >> CHRISTY LEWIS, ANNIE HILL, AND EDDIE LEDERER. >> HI, CHRISTY LEWIS. I'M AN AIRBNB HOST. I MAY HAVE SIGNED UP THE WRONG WAY. BUT I AM OPPOSED TO THE REGULATION ON SHORT-TERM RENTALS. I LIVE AT 2109 BENGAL LANE IN PLANO. AND I WANT TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT THIS IS NOT MY FULL-TIME JOB. THIS IS ACTUALLY A SIDE HUSTLE FOR ME IN ORDER TO MAKE MY MORTGAGE EVERY MONTH. I WANT TO NOTE THAT THE 30/60/90 POLICY THAT'S BEEN PRESENTED WOULD ELIMINATE THAT POSSIBILITY FROM ME BEING ABLE TO MAKE MY MORTGAGE. I WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO SPAN THAT OUT OVER THE FULL YEAR IN ORDER TO MAKE UP THE DIFFERENCE IN WHAT I OWE. I WANT TO ALSO MENTION THAT AS A HOST, I'M ABLE TO SCREEN EVERY SINGLE PERSON THAT I ALLOW TO STAY AT MY PLACE AS A GUEST. I CAN APPROVE THEM OR DENY THEM BASED ON THE QUESTIONS THAT I ASK THEM. AND I ASK THEM QUITE A BIT OF QUESTIONS BEFORE THEY ARE ALLOWED TO STAY. USUALLY, THEY'RE LARGE FAMILIES, 6-8 PEOPLE. MOST OF THOSE FOLKS COULDN'T REALISTICALLY FIND A HOTEL TO STAY AT FOR TEN DAYS AT A TIME OR MORE. AS A FAMILY THAT SIZE, THERE ISN'T AN ACCOMMODATION OUT THERE THAT WOULD WORK FOR THOSE TYPES OF PEOPLE. PEOPLE ARE IN TOWN FOR MEDICAL CARE. I'VE HAD FOUR OR FIVE FAMILIES COME IN FOR MEDICAL CARE. KIDS GOING THROUGH CHEMOTHERAPY AND THEIR WHOLE FAMILY HAS TO COME TO DOWN FOR THOSE SORTS OF THINGS. ALSO PEOPLE WHO ARE TRYING TO COME HERE AND ESTABLISH RESIDENCY FULL-TIME AS PLANO RESIDENTS, NOT TRANSIENTS. >> 30 SECONDS. >> THERE'S A WAY TO DO THIS FAIRLY. BUT I WANT TO NOTE I'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR SIX YEARS. I'VE NEVER HAD THE COPS CALLED ON ME, NO GUNSHOTS CAME FROM MY HOME. WE'RE RESPONSIBLE HOSTS AND WE WANT TO DO THIS RESPONSIBLY. THANK YOU. >> Chair Downs: THANK YOU. [ APPLAUSE ] >> ANNIE HILL, EDDIE LEDERER AND CINDY. >> GOOD EVENING, CHAIR AND MEMBERS. THANK YOU FOR YOUR WORK ON THIS ISSUE. MY NAME IS ANNA HILL, AN ATTORNEY LICENSED IN TEXAS AND I'VE BEEN A H HOMEOWNER IN PLAO FOR 20 YEARS. I SERVED ON THE SHORT-TERM RENTAL TASK FORCE AND AM PROUD OF THE THOROUGH WORK THAT THE CITY HAS BEEN DOING TO ADDRESS THE NEGATIVE IMPACT THAT SHORT-TERM RENTALS ARE HAVING ON OUR NEIGHBORHOODS. LOOKING AT THE PHILOSOPHICAL BASIS OF PROPERTY LAW HELPS TO FRAME THE ISSUE AT HAND. AT ITS CORE, PROPERTY IS NOTHING BUT A BASIS OF EXPECTATION. THE EXPECTATION TO DERIVE CERTAIN ADVANTAGE FROM THE A THING THAT WE ARE SAID TO OWN. ZONING LAWS ARE A CRITICAL PART OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT TO ENSURE THAT THESE EXPECTATIONS ARE CLEAR AND IMMUTABLE, THAT I KNOW WHAT I'M GETTING WHEN I BUY A PROPERTY AND THAT MY NEIGHBORHOOD KNOWS WHAT THEY'RE GETTING WHEN THEY PURCHASE THE PROPERTY NEXT TO MINE. CITIES DISTINGUISH THEMSELVES BASED ON THEIR ZONING CHOICES, WHERE THEY PUT INFRASTRUCTURE, PARKS SCHOOLS BUSINESSES AND HOMES, HOW CLOSE THESE THINGS ARE TO ONE ANOTHER, HOW MANY THERE ARE, AND IT GOES ON. RESIDENTS MAKE LARGE INVESTMENTS, OFTEN THEIR LARGEST INVESTMENT, BASED ON THESE CAREFULLY CREATED CITY DESIGNS. PEOPLE BUY HOMES IN SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS BECAUSE THEY WANT TO BE SURROUNDED BY OTHER FAMILIES TO FORM A COMMUNITY, NOT TRANSIENTS AND NOT BUSINESSES. I APPLAUD THE CITY AND COMMISSION'S ACTIONS TO ENSURE THE SPIRIT OF THE ORIGINAL ZONING LAWS THAT HOTELS, BED AND BREAKFASTS AND BOARDING HOUSES ARE NOT ALLOWED IN SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS AND THIS CONTINUES TO BE APPLIED. I UNDERSTAND UNDER THE CURRENT STATE OF LAW A DISTINCTION NEEDS TO BE MADE ALLOWING THE GRANDFATHERING OF EXISTING SHORT-TERM RENTALS. AS AN ATTORNEY I ALSO UNDERSTAND THAT THE CITY IS WITHIN ITS LEGAL AUTHORITY TO BAN ALL NEW SHORT-TERM RENTALS IN AREAS THAT ARE CURRENTLY ZONED FOR SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL USE. CREATING ANY NEW RIGHTS TO USE HOMES AS SHORT-TERM RENTALS CONTRADICTS CURRENT ZONING AND THE EXPECTATIONS OF SINGLE-FAMILY HOMEOWNERS THAT BOUGHT HOMES IN PLANO. IT'S CRITICALLY IMPORTANT THAT THE COMMISSION DOES NOT CREATE NEW RIGHTS TO ALLOW SHORT-TERM RENTALS IN SINGLE-FAMILY NEIGHBORHOODS. I AGREE WITH THE POSITION OF THE TEXAS NEIGHBORHOOD COALITION THAT NEW ONE-BEDROOM SHORT-TERM RENTALS AND SEASONAL RENTALS SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED IN SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS, BUT THE PROPOSAL SHOULD OTHERWISE BE PUT INTO IMMEDIATE EFFECT. THANK YOU. >> Chair Downs: THANK YOU. [ APPLAUSE ] >> EDDIE LEDERER, CINDY, GINA. >> HELLO. I'M EDDIE, 1608 TRAIL IN PLANO. YOU KNOW, I SUPPORT THE REGISTRATION PROCESS. I THINK IT'S A GREAT THING. YOU KNOW, THERE'S A SAYING. IF YOU TORTURE THE DATA ENOUGH IT WILL CONFESS TO ANYTHING YOU LIKE. AND I BELIEVE THE TASK FORCE DATA LACKED BALANCE. AND IT DID NOT BRING FORTH THE PERSPECTIVES OF THE RESPONSIBLE STR OPERATORS. THEY DID NOT HAVE AN ADEQUATE VOICE. THE FACT OF THAT LACKED IMPARTIAL REPRESENTATION AND BROUGHT ABOUT UNREALISTIC AND UNFAIR PROPOSED REGULATIONS. NOW, OBVIOUSLY WE TALKED ABOUT THIS NOT AFFECTING GRANDFATHERED PEOPLE. I'M A GRANDFATHER IN MORE CASES THAN ONE. BUT THIS WHOLE NOTION OF SEASONAL RENTALS HERE IN PLANO -- TO ME IT DOESN'T HOLD ANY WEIGHT. I SEE NOBODY FROM AN INVESTMENT STANDPOINT COMING TO PLANO TO BUY UP STRs IN COMMUNITIES TO RENT IT FOR 90 DAYS. THERE'S NO ECONOMIC CREDENCE TO THAT EVER HAPPENING. THIS WAS BASED ON AN ARLIPPINGTON MODEL. ARLINGTON IS A VACATION MODEL. WHY DON'T WE LOOK AT THE REGULATIONS, AT THE SURROUNDING CITIES AROUND PLANO, PEOPLE THAT ARE MORE LIKE US? FRISCO ALLAN RICHARDSON SUCCESSFUL REGISTRATION PROCESSES WITH NO ISSUES. AND, LOWER CRIME RATES THAN WE HAVE RIGHT NOW, WHICH IS VERY INTERESTING. SO, WHY DON'T WE FOLLOW THEIR LEAD? WHY DON'T WE LOOK TO ESTABLISH FAIR AND BALANCED REGULATIONS, AND THEN THROUGH THAT LET'S WEED OUT THE TEN BAD OPERATORS OUT THERE. YOU TALK ABOUT THE PROPERTIES. AIRBNB WILL SHUT DOWN ANYBODY THAT'S HAVING PARTIES BECAUSE IT'S AGAINST THEIR REGULATIONS. I GOT A REQUEST TODAY. I'VE GOT A 2-YEAR-OLD. WE'D LIKE TO HAVE A PARTY. MY RESPONSE, WE DON'T ALLOW PARTIES. I DON'T CARE WHAT IT IS. SO WE'VE GOT A LOT OF GOOD OPERATORS. 99%. WE'VE GOT GREAT GUESTS. I THINK WE'RE SENDING A MESSAGE TO THE COMMUNITY AND A CHANGE IN LANDSCAPE. WE DON'T WANT YOU. GO TO ARLINGTON, TO MESQUITE, SOMEPLACE ELSE. DON'T COME TO PLANO. >> YOUR TIME IS UP. >> THANK YOU. >> Chair Downs: THANK YOU. [ APPLAUSE ] >> CINDY, GINA, AND STACY. >> GOOD EVENING, MY NAME IS CINDY, 6229 WESTCHESTER LANE, MY HOME FOR ALMOST 31 YEARS. I WILL CUT RIGHT TO THE CHASE. I WANT TO ADDRESS THE LIMITED AND SEASONAL OPTION FOR THE BED AND BREAKFAST TWO TO FIVE BEDROOM AND THE VACATION RENTALS. YOU'VE HEARD THE STATISTICS THAT THE SUPERMAJORITY OF PEOPLE DO NOT WANT THESE SHORT-TERM RENTALS ON THEIR BLOCK. SO LET ME BE REALLY CLEAR. I SUPPORT THE PROPOSED ORDINANCE REGARDING WHERE THOSE PROPERTIES ARE ALLOWED TO OPERATE YEAR-ROUND. THE BED AND BREAKFAST, TWO TO FIVE REQUIRES A SPECIFIC USE PERMIT TO BE IN A RESIDENTIAL AREA AND THE VACATION RENTALS ARE NOT ALLOWED THERE AT ALL. I THINK THAT'S CORRECT. I AM FLUMMOXED BY THE IDEA THAT WE WOULD THEN ALLOW THEM ON A LIMITED BASIS OR A SEASONAL BASIS IN OUR SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS. AFTER WORKING FOR TWO YEARS TO TRY TO GET ALL THE NEW SHORT-TERM RENTALS OUT OF OUR NEIGHBORHOODS, I'M NOT EXCITED ABOUT A PROVISION THAT ALLOWS THEM BACK IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD RANDOMLY FOR ONE TO THREE MONTHS EACH YEAR. I DON'T SEE HOW THAT FULFILLS OUR GOAL OF MAINTAINING AND STRENGTHENING OUR NEIGHBORHOODS. I'M ASKING YOU TO REMOVE THAT SEASONAL/LIMITED PROVISION FROM THE PROPOSED ORDINANCE AND TO RECOGNIZE THAT THE CITY GOT IT RIGHT WHEN IT SAID THAT BOARDING HOUSES AND UNMANNED MINI HOTELS DO NOT BELONG IN OUR NEIGHBORHOODS. THEY DON'T BELONG THERE YEAR-ROUND AND THEY REALLY DON'T BELONG THERE -- >> 22 SECONDS. >> THANK YOU. >> Chair Downs: THANK YOU. [ APPLAUSE ] >> GINA, STACY, FOLLOWED BY MATT BINGHAM. >> HELLO. MY NAME GINA MORAY, 4825 BULL RUN DRIVE. THANKS S FOR YOUR TIME. I'VE LIVED IN PLANO THE MAJORITY OF MY LIFE. I'VE BEEN IN MY CURRENT HOME IN PLANO FOR 20 YEARS. I'VE BEEN A SHORT-TERM RENTAL HOST AND AN AIRBNB SUPER-HOST FOR A LITTLE OVER TWO YEARS NOW. I'M NOT GOING TO REPEAT EVERYTHING THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN SHARED WITH YOU GUYS, BUT THE ONE CONCERN THAT I DO HAVE IS THE REQUESTING OF A TWO-NIGHT MINIMUM. I DON'T SEE HOW OR WHERE THAT WOULD BE BENEFICIAL FOR THE ISSUES THAT SO FEW OF US HAVE EXPERIENCED IN THE COMMUNITY. IT MAKES NO SENSE. NOT TO MENTION THE AVAILABILITY OF MY PROPERTY HAS ACTUALLY HELPED LOCAL PLANO RESIDENTS WHEN THEY'VE EXPERIENCED EMERGENCIES WITHIN THEIR OWN HOMES DUE TO A FLOOD OR LOSS OF POWER THAT HAPPENS TO BE A PLANO ISD TEACHER AND WHATNOT. SO, THE SAME DAY AND LAST-MINUTE BOOKINGS ARE A DEFINITE NEED AND USED IN A PROPER MANNER. SEASONAL, WE'VE ALREADY TOUCHED ON THAT. ANYWAY, I THINK ALSO THE TASK FORCE IS MISLEADING ON IT'S A DISRUPTION TO ALL OF OUR NEIGHBORS. I WAS OUT FRONT SPRUCING UP MY GARDEN AND MY NEXT-DOOR NEIGHBOR CAME OUT. I EXPLAINED WHAT WAS GOING ON WITH THE CITY. SHE SAID I DON'T SEE WHAT THE ISSUE IS. SHE SAID, IT'S NOT LIKE YOU HAVE DROVES OF CARS OUT FRONT, YOU KNOW. IT'S NEVER BEEN AN ISSUE. MAYBE THOSE WE SHOULD ATTACK, BUT NOT THE ONES WHO ARE DOING IT RESPONSIBLY. ANYWAY, I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME. THANK YOU. >> Chair Downs: THANK YOU. [ APPLAUSE ] >> STACY MATTHEWS, MATT BINGHAM, FOLLOWED BY ADAM CHRISTIANSON, WHO'S ON ZOOM. >> HELLO, GOOD EVENING. STACY MATTHEWS, 2300 BRENNAN DRIVE. I APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO TAKE A MOMENT TODAY. I BECAME A RESIDENT IN 1981. I BECAME AN AIRBNB SUPER-HOST IN SEPTEMBER OF 2014. IT WAS ALSO THAT YEAR MY MOTHER BECAME GRAVELY A AND NEEDED TO E MOVED INTO ASSISTED LIVING. INSTEAD OF SELLING OUR FAMILY HOME, I RENOVATED IT. I LISTED IT ON AIRBNB. AND I CAN TELL YOU IT HAS TRULY BEEN A GODSEND. LAST YEAR WE HAD 30 GUESTS AND CLEARED 30,000 IN INCOME AND 4100 HAS GONE TO MY MAID FOR CLEANING. DURING MY HOSTING TENURE, THE INCOME OFFSET THE COST OF RENOVATIONS, UPGRADES AND REPAIRS, INCLUDING 10,000 OF FOUNDATION REPAIR DONE JUST LAST WEEK THAT I WOULDN'T HAVE AFFORDED TO BE ABLE TO DO WITHOUT. NOT TO MENTION ON A PERSONAL NOTE MY MOM'S CRITICAL CARE AND COSTS. HAVING THE INCOME FROM AIRBNB KEPT HER OFF MEDICAID. THE SECOND-LARGEST BUDGET EXPENSE FOR THIS GREAT STATE AND AFFORDED US A LEVEL OF CARE FOR HER THAT OTHERWISE WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN POSSIBLE. FOR THE AIRBNB INCOME I AM TRULY GRATEFUL. WE HAVE HOSTED MANY GOOD PEOPLE INCLUDING MEMBERS OF OUR OWN COMMUNITY AS MENTIONED IN PLANO. OUR GUESTS INCLUDE SOME OF THE 135,000 FOLKS RELOCATING LAST YEAR TO THE DFW METROPLEX AND SEARCHING FOR THEIR NEW FOREVER HOME. MANY NEIGHBORS DID NOT WANT TO STAY IN A TINY STUDIO WITH FAMILIES AND PETS AS I DID DURING MY OWN RENOVATION FOR SIX MONTHS. THEY WANT A HOME, A PLACE WHERE MEALS CAN BE COOKED AND SHARED TOGETHER AROUND A DINNER TABLE, ACCESS TO BACKYARDS AND COMFORT. I REALIZE THERE HAVE BEEN BAD ACTORS AS AIRBNB GUESTS. VERY FEW, HOWEVER. NOISE COMPLAINTS AND PARTIES AND EXCESS AT SOME AIRBNBS. I BELIEVE IT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE HOST TO VET OUT THESE POTENTIAL OFFEND ORDERS. OFFENDERS. MY LISTING STATES NO PARTIES AND IS STRICTLY ENFORCED. BOTH OF MY NEIGHBORS TO EACH SIDE OF ME ARE AWARE I AIRBNB MY HOME WHILE I TRAVEL EXTENSIVELY SIX MONTHS OUT OF THE YEAR FOR WORK AND THEY ARE INSTRUCTED TO CONTACT ME AT ANY HOUR IF THERE IS ANY SUSPICIOUS ACTIVITIES, CARS OUT FRONT, ANY PARTIES. LUCKILY THIS HAS NOT ONCE BEEN THE CASE IN THE LAST NINE YEARS. I'M ASKING THAT YOU CONSIDER KINDLY THAT THE EVERYDAY RESIDENTS WHO BENEFIT FROM THIS PLATFORM AND THE INCOME IT PROVIDES TO THE HARDWORKING HOMEOWNER. IF THE LAW CHANGES AND YOU RULE WE CAN ONLY RENT FOR THIS LIMITED AMOUNT OF TIME, I WOULD NOT EVEN BE ABLE TO COVER MY MONTHLY OPERATING COST. I ASK THAT YOU PLEASE NOT ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN. LEADERS, PLEASE DO NOT PUNISH THE MANY FOR THE MISTAKES OF THE FEW. THANK YOU. >> YOUR TIME IS UP. [ APPLAUSE ] >> Chair Downs: THANK YOU. >> MATT BINGHAM, ADAM CHRISTIANSEN AND LYNNE. >> MATT BINGHAM, 3413 MONTREAL DRIVE. MY FAMILY MOVED HERE 48 YEARS AGO. I WAS BORN AND RAISED HERE. I'VE LIVED IN MY HOUSE FOR TEN YEARS. THE PEOPLE AGAINST SRTs DON'T CARE ABOUT THE COMMUNITY. THEY SAY THEY DO. [ CLEARING THROAT ] BUT THEY THINK IT'S A NUISANCE TO GO TALK TO THEIR NEIGHBOR TO ASK THEM TO QUIET DOWN THEIR PARTIES. [ LAUGHING ] >> THAT'S REALLY FUNNY. THANKS A LOT. IT'S NOT FUNNY AT ALL. THESE PEOPLE DON'T CARE ABOUT THE COMMUNITY. REGISTERING STRs IS AGAINST THE FREE MARKET. YOU -- THIS COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED ON PRINCIPLES OF PROPERTY RIGHTS. THE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T GRANT -- THEY DON'T GRANT RIGHTS. THEY PROTECT OUR RIGHTS. FORCING RIDICULOUS FEES TO PAY, INCREASE THE TAXES ON STR HOSTS TO OFFSET THE TAXES THAT YOU'RE GOING TO LOSE WHEN THESE HOSTS CAN NO LONGER AFFORD THE COSTS TO HOST IS RIDICULOUS. IT WILL PUT ME OUT OF BUSINESS. IT WOULD PUT ME HOMELESS. AND I'VE NEVER HEARD OF ANY PLACES FOR MEN TO GO WHEN THEY'RE HOMELESS. THERE'S SHELTERS FOR WOMEN THAT WE'VE HEARD ABOUT IN THIS COMMITTEE PREVIOUS WEEKS. THERE AREN'T ANY FOR MEN. PLEASE DO NOT BAN OR INCREASE THE COST OF PEOPLE TRYING -- STRUGGLING TO PAY THEIR BILLS AND PAY FOR THEIR HOUSES IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD, IN THIS CITY. ESPECIALLY THOSE THAT AREN'T RENTING OUT THE ENTIRE HOME. WE ARE JUST TRYING TO SURVIVE. WE AREN'T CAUSING PROBLEMS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. PEOPLE -- OUR GUESTS AREN'T THROWING PARTIES. THEY AREN'T TRAFFICKING HUMANS. >> YOUR TIME HAS ENDED. >> WE LIVE IN OUR HOUSES AND CONTROL WHAT HAPPENS IN OUR HOUSES. THANK YOU. >> Chair Downs: THANK YOU. [ APPLAUSE ] >> WE HAVE ADAM CHR, FOLLOWED BY LYNNE AND ANTONIO. >> Chair DOWNS: MR. CHRISTIANSEN, ARE YOU WITH US? >> MR. CHRISTIANSEN IS ONLINE, HOWEVER, HIS CAMERA IS NOT ON. >> Chair Downs: WE NEED TO HAVE HIS CAMERA ON TO BE ABLE TO HEAR HIS PRESENTATION. >> HE DECLINED THE REQUEST. >> Chair Downs: OKAY. THEN WE'LL MOVE ON TO THE NEXT SPEAKER PLEASE. >> LYNNE McLEMON, ANTONIO MIGUEL MOLINA, AND GREG PATILLO. >> GOOD EVENING. I'M LYNNE, 4021 ELM HILL DRIVE, PLANO, LIVING THERE FOR THE PAST 28 YEARS. PLEASE DO NOT ALLOW ANY NEW SHORT-TERM RENTALS IN SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS. THERE IS A SHORT-TERM RENTAL JUST THREE HOUSES DOWN FROM ME. PEOPLE STAYING IN A SHORT-TERM RENTAL DO NOT BECOME PART OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD OR ARE INVESTED IN THE UP-KEEP OF THE PROPERTY OR THE COMMUNITY. THEY ARE TRANSIENTS JUST LIKE SOMEONE STAYING AT A HOTEL. THEY ARE STRANGERS. THEY ARE NOT RESIDENTS. THEY ARE NOT NEIGHBORS. SHORT-TERM RENTAL OWNERS SAY THEY HAV PROPERTY RIGHTS. WELL, I DO, TOO, AS A RESIDENTIAL AND HOMEOWNER IN PLANO. I BOUGHT INTO A SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD SO I WOULDN'T HAVE STRANGERS COMING AND GOING EVERY FEW DAYS. SHORT-TERM RENTAL OWNERS SAY SHORT-TERM RENTALS ARE BENEFICIAL TO PLANO AND TO NEIGHBORHOODS. WELL, THEY DEFINITELY ARE BENEFICIAL TO THE SHORT-TERM RENTAL OWNERS, BECAUSE THEY MAKE MONEY FROM THEM. BUT IT IS AT A COST TO THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE NEXT TO THE SHORT-TERM RENTAL AND TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD BECAUSE OF LOWER PROPERTY VALUES AND SAFETY CONCERNS. NO ONE WANTS TO LIVE NEXT TO A SHORT-TERM RENTAL WITH PEOPLE COMING AND GOING. KEEP IN MIND THE VAST MAJORITY OF SHORT-TERM RENTALS COULD EASILY BECOME LONG-TERM RENTALS OR BE SOLD. BUT IN REALITY, THERE'S MORE MONEY TO BE MADE BY A SHORT-TERM RENTAL OWNER TO KEEP IT AS A SHORT-TERM RENTAL. A SHORT-TERM RENTAL IS JUST A HOUSE. IT'S NOT A HOME. IT'S A BUSINESS. MONEY IS EXCHANGED. IT'S NOT A CHARITY. THEY ARE IN BUSINESS TO MAKE MONEY. >> 30 SECONDS. >> THEY ARE IN A BUSINESS -- THEY ARE A BUSINESS JUST LIKE A HOTEL. AND THEY HAVE NO BUSINESS BEING IN SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS. THAT'S WHY WE HAVE ZONING IN PLANO. IN CONCLUSION, I RESPECTFULLY ASK EACH OF YOU PLEASE DO NOT PUT THE INTEREST OF SHORT-TERM RENTAL OWNERS WHO SEE A HOUSE JUST AS AN INCOME STREAM AND MAY NOT EVEN LIVE IN PLANO OR EVEN IN TEXAS OVER THE INTERESTS OF YOUR PLANO RESIDENTS AND NEIGHBORHOODS AND COMMUNITIES. PLEASE DO NOT ALLOW ANY NEW SHORT-TERM RENTALS IN SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS. THANK YOU. [ APPLAUSE ] >> ANTONIO AND GREG PATILLO FOLLOWED BY CHRISTIAN. >> GOOD EVENING, P&Z COUNCIL. LAST TIME I CAME MORE PREPARED WITH A PERSONAL TESTIMONY OF HOW MY AIRBNB IS THE STANDARD THAT WE SHOULD FOLLOW REGARDING SECURITY CAMERAS AND MAINTENANCE. SOMETIMES EVEN BETTER THAN THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. SO A LITTLE BIT ABOUT ME. I'M NOT FROM PLANO. I CAME FROM HONDURAS AS AN INTERNATIONAL STUDENT AND NOW I'M HERE WITH AN H1B VISA AND ONE INCOME I CAN HAVE IS TO BE A LANDLORD. AND I GREW UP IN AN AMERICAN SCHOOL IN HONDURAS. I SAID THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE EVERY SCHOOL DAY. AND I GREW UP WITH MORE AMERICAN NOWADAYS IN THIS COUNTRY. TO ME, IT'S CRAZY TO SEE A LARE GROUP OF OLDER PEOPLE BEGGING THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT TO TAKE THEIR RIGHTS AWAY, BECAUSE I HAVE THE RIGHT TO RENT OUT MY PROPERTY. THERE IS NO REASON WHY A BUNCH OF OLDER PEOPLE COMPLAIN ABOUT A NUISANCE NEIGHBOR. IT WOULD BE A TREAT TO HAVE THESE FOLKS AS YOUR NEIGHBOR. YOU CAN JUST IMAGINE WHAT THAT WOULD BE LIKE. SO I JUST COME TO YOU AS A PERSON WHO CARES ABOUT THE CITY, WHO CARES ABOUT MY FAMILY AND ABOUT THE INCOME THAT THE AIRBNB BUSINESS AND SHORT-TERM RENTALS LEAVE TO US. AND IT'S JUST RIDICULOUS TO ME THAT AMERICAN CITIZENS ARE BEGGING LOCAL GOVERNMENTS TO TAKE RIGHTS AWAY FROM OTHER CITIZENS. AND -- LET'S SAY I'M GRANDFATHERED IN, WHAT ABOUT THE GUY THAT WANTS TO RENT OUT A PLANO PROPERTY AND SHORT-TERM RENT? HE WON'T BE ABLE TO NOW. OR WITH WHATEVER THINGS THEY'RE DOING FOR THE CONTROL AND REGULATION, THEY COULD. BUT IT'S ALL COMPLICATED. BUT THANK YOU, BILL. LAST TIME HE SPOKE A LITTLE BIT WITH US. AND I COMPLETELY DISAGREE WITH THE WAY THAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE SINGLE-FAMILY ZONING AS A HOTEL. >> 30 SECONDS. >> AND THAT IS NOT FAIR. AND THEN THE GRANDFATHERING, IT CAN'T BE THE 30/60/90. IT SHOULD BE THE WAY IT IS UNLIMITED. AND I GUARANTEE YOU IF YOU TAKE THIS TO A PUBLIC VOTE AND WORD IT A CERTAIN WAY THE PEOPLE WON'T VOTE IN FAVOR OF THE BAN BECAUSE YOU'RE BASICALLY BEGGING THE GOVERNMENT TO TAKE YOUR RIGHTS AWAY. AND JUST THAT. THANK YOU. APPRECIATE IT. [ APPLAUSE ] >> Chair Downs: THANK YOU. JUST A QUICK REMINDER TO KEEP IT RESPECTFUL. THANK YOU. GO AHEAD, SIR. >> GREG PATILLO, CH CHRISTEN. >> I'M GREG, L I'VE LIVED AT MY RESIDENCE FOR MORE THAN 30 YEARS. THERE'S AN INDEPENDENT STUDY FROM BOSTON, MASSACHUSETTS. IT EXAMINED THE LINKAGE BETWEEN THE CONVERSION OF HOUSING TO SHORT-TERM RENTALS AND INCIDENTS OF WHAT THE STUDY CHARACTERIZED AS PRIVATE CONFLICT, VANDALISM, PARKING ENCROACHMENT, LEWDNESS AND VIOLENCE, ASSAULT, ARMED CONFLICT, AND ROBBERY OVER A PERIOD OF MORE THAN TWO YEARS. THE STUDY IS UNIQUE IN THAT IT SOLELY FOCUSED ON NEIGHBORHOODS AND INCLUDE WHAED USAGE, NUMBERF TRANSIENTS, AS AN ADDITIONAL MEASURE OF AIRBNB PRESENCE. I'VE BEEN RELUCTANT TO PRESENT STUDIES CONDUCTED USING DATA FROM OTHER CITIES, BUT THE FINDINGS ARE RELEVANT AND OFFER INSIGHT TO THE COMMENTS THAT YOU HAVE HEARD HERE. THE STUDY FOUND THAT AIRBNB PREVALENCE IN A NEIGHBORHOOD CAN BE ASSOCIATED WITH INCREASES IN VIOLENCE, BUT NOT WITH SOCIAL ORDER AND PRIVATE CONFLICT. THE EFFECT OF AIRBNB PENETRATION ON VIOLENCE APPEARED TO STRENGTHEN OVER MULTIPLE YEARS. INTERESTINGLY, THE STUDY DID NOT FIND A CORRELATION BETWEEN USAGE AND ANY OF THE CRIME CATEGORIES. THE STUDY'S FINDINGS SUGGESTED THE CRIMES WERE NOT BEING COMMITTED BY THE TRANSIENTS, BUT THE CONVERSION OF HOUSING TO SHORT-TERM RENTAL UNDERMINES THE COMMUNITY FABRIC AND IN TURN THEIR NATURAL ABILITY TO COUNTERACT AND DISCOURAGE CRIME. THIS WOULD CONFIRM THE NOTION A MOST HOSTS ARE GREAT HOSTS AND MOST GUESTS ARE GREAT. HOWEVER, IN THE CASE OF VIOLENT CRIME, THAT'S IRRELEVANT. FIVE-STAR GUESTS ARE STRANGERS THAT COME IN OUR NEIGHBORHOODS OFFERING COVER FOR THOSE LOOKING TO COMMIT CRIMES. SEE SOMETHING, SAY SOMETHING IS ONLY EFFECTIVE IF YOU SEE SOMETHING THAT YOU OTHERWISE WOULD NOT EXPECT TO SEE. THE FACT THAT IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO ATTRIBUTE THESE CRIMES TO A SINGLE LISTING EXPOSES ANOTHER CRITICAL FLAW OVERLYING CALLS FOR SERVICE DATA. THE CONNECTION BETWEEN INCREASED CRIME IN NEIGHBORHOODS WITH A NUMBER OF SHORT-TERM RENTALS IS CONSISTENT WITH OTHER STUDIES. THE REASONING IS CONSISTENT WITH DECADES OF EXPERIENCE IN NEIGHBORHOOD CRIMES, KNOWING YOUR NEIGHBORS ARE THE FOUNDATION OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD CRIME WATCH AND NATIONAL NIGHT OUT, BOTH OF WHICH ARE PROMOTED AND SUPPORTED BY PLANO PD. DATA AVAILABLE FROM THE PLANO SURVEY MIGHT BE USED TO HYPOTHESIZE THE LACK OF CORRELATION BETWEEN AIRBNB PREVALENCE AND THE INCREASE IN SOCIAL DISORDER OR PRIVATE CONFLICT GIVEN THAT DATA WAS LIMITED TO 911 CALL DISPATCHES. PLANO'S DATA SUGGESTS THAT FOR INCIDENTS OF THIS NATURE THERE IS A CALCULUS AND DETERMINATION TO INVOLVE LAW ENFORCEMENT OR TAKE ANY MEASURABLE ACTION -- >> YOUR TIME IS UP. >> THANK YOU. [ APPLAUSE ] >> MY FINAL CONCLUSION, LOOK. I DON'T BELIEVE THERE IS A SINGLE HOST OR OPERATOR THAT WANTS TO MAKE OUR NEIGHBORHOODS LESS SAFE, BUT UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES ARE STILL CONSEQUENCES. THANK YOU. >> Chair Downs: THANK YOU, SIR. THANK YOU. [ APPLAUSE ] >> KRISTEN FOLLOWED BY KOREY AND THEN HANEL. >> HI, GOOD EVENING, COMMISSIONERS. I'M KRISTEN AND I LIVE IN OLD TOWN PLANO, JUST DOWN THE STREET. AND I HAVE LIVED HERE SINCE I GRADUATED COLLEGE 14 YEARS AGO. MY ENTIRE ADULT LIFE. I CHOSE TO COME TO PLANO. SINCE 2017, MY HUSBAN AND I HAVE BEEN SHORT-TERM RENTAL HOSTS AND HAVE HOSTED HUNDREDS OF GUESTS. OUR GUESTS ARE OFTEN COUPLES MOVING TO THE AREA LOOKING FOR APARTMENTS OR HOMES. ONE OF OUR RECENT GUESTS JUST BOUGHT A HOUSE DOWN THE STREET FROM US AND MOVED IN IN JANUARY. OTHER GUESTS ARE IN TOWN FOR BUSINESS OR GRANDPARENTS VISITING GRANDKIDS. NOT ONLY HAVE WE MET LIFELONG FRIENDS, HOSTING HAS PROVIDED US FLEXIBILITY, FINANCIAL STABILITY AND HAS GIVEN US THE ABILITY TO REINVEST IN OUR HOME. OUR NEIGHBORS HAVE SUPPORTED OUR SHORT-TERM RENTAL AND HAVE ENJOYED MEETING MANY OF OUR GUESTS. I UNDERSTAND THE CONCERN SOME RESIDENTS HAVE WITH POTENTIAL ISSUES, BUT ALL PROPERTIES AND ALL TENANTS, LONG-TERM OR SHORT-TERM, HAVE THE POTENTIAL TO CAUSE NUISANCES. SHORT-TERM RENTAL HOSTS LIKE ME ARE OFTEN UNFAIRLY CONDEMNED. I SUPPORT FAIR COMMONSENSE RULES THAT PROTECT NEIGHBORHOODS AND RESPONSIBLE HOSTS. I THINK THAT NUISANCE ISSUES COULD BE BETTER MITIGATED ACROSS THE BOARD. THIS CAN BE ACCOMPLISHED WITH THE ENFORCEMENT OF THE EXISTING ORDINANCES AND OCCUPANCY ORDINANCES RATHER THAN STRIPPING THE RIGHTS OF RESPONSIBLE SHORT-TERM RENTAL OPERATORS. YOUR DECISION SHOULD BE BASED ON THE FACTS, NOT ANECDOTES OF A ONE-SIZED TASK FORCE. ALSO CONSIDER ALL THAT SHORT-TERM RENTALS BRING TO PLANO AND ALL THE TOOLS THAT ALREADY EXIST. I BELIEVE THAT SHORT-TERM RENTALS DO BELONG IN PLANO NEIGHBORHOODS AND THEY DO FILL A NICHE THAT TRADITIONAL HOTELS DO NOT MEET WHEN OPERATED THOUGHTFULLY WITH AN EYE TOWARDS BEING GOOD NEIGHBORS, THEY PRESENT A UNIQUE HOUSING TYPE THAT FILLS NEEDS, SUPPORTS OWNERS, AND BENEFITS THE CITY. THANK YOU. >> Chair Downs: THANK YOU. [ APPLAUSE ] >> KOREY FOLLOWED BY HANEL AND THEN ADAM. >> GOOD EVENING, COMMISSIONERS. MY NAME IS KOREY. I'M A 14-YEAR RESIDENT OF PLANO, 12-YEAR HOMEOWNER AND SEVEN-YEAR HOST ON AIRBNB. WE'VE WELCOMED HUNDREDS OF GUESTS INTO OUR HOME AND SERVED AS AMBASSADORS TO THEM. ALL WHILE ENHANCING THE COMMUNITY FABRIC OF OUR NEIGHBORHOOD AND CONTRIBUTING TO WHAT MY NEIGHBORS WOULD F AGREES ONE OF THE BEST STREETS IN PLANO. I HAVE A FEW COMMENTS ON THE TECHNICAL ASPECTS OF THE PROPOSED ZONING CHANGES. FIRST OFF, WORDS MATTER. THEIR MEANING AND INTENT SHOULD BE CLEAR AND UNAMBIGUOUS ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO MATTERS OF LAW AND REGULATION. AS AN ARCHITECT, I SPEND MORE TIME THAN I CARE TO ADMIT INTERPRETING ZONING CODES. THE DEFINITIONS USED IN THIS ORDINANCE OF VACATION RENTAL AND BED AND BREAKFAST FAIL THE TEST OF CLARITY. VACATION RENTAL IMPLIES A SKI HOUSE, NOT A TRACT HOME IN SUBURBAN TEXAS. THE TASK FORCE HASN'T PRODUCED EVIDENCE THAT PLANO HAS BECOME A RESORT COMMUNITY. A MORE NEUTRAL AND EXPLANATORY WORD SHOULD BE USED. LIKEWISE, BED AND BREAKFAST CONJURES IMAGES OF STUFFY HOMES WITH CREAKY FLOORS. IT DOES NOT FIT THE RENTING OF HOMES PRACTICED TODAY. STAFF AND THE TASK FORCE HAVE NOT PRODUCED DATA TO ILLUMINATE THIS TYPE OF RENTAL AND CHOSE TO REPURPOSE AN EXISTING DEFINITION. A BETTER TERM SHOULD BE USED. LASTLY, I BELIEVE THE BANNING OF HOME STRs IN SINGLE-FAMILY ZONES IS NOT SUPPORTED BY THE DATA AND IS SHORT-SIGHTED. STAFF HAVE TREATED ALL SINGLE-FAMILY NEIGHBORHOODS UNIFORMLY WITHOUT REGARD TO THEIR UNIQUE CHARACTERISTICS. I CAN SPEAK TO THE CHARACTERISTIC OF MY NEIGHBORHOOD IN EAST PLANO, WHICH HAS PREDOMINANTLY OLDER HOUSING STOCK IN NEED OF REPAIR. AN OVERLOOKED FEATURE OF STRs IS THAT THE PRACTICE INCENTIVIZES HIGHER LEVELS OF INVESTMENT IN PROPERTIES THAT MIGHT OTHERWISE BE LEFT TO DETERIORATE AS LONG-TERM RENTALS OR BE POORLY FLIPPED WILL RECEIVE HIGH-QUALITY UPGRADES BECAUSE STR GUESTS EXPECT SUCH AND WILL PUNISH THROUGH NEGATIVE REVIEWS POOR LISTINGS. RESEARCH HAS SHOWN JURISDICTIONS THAT BAN STR ACTIVITY SUFFER DECREASED RESIDENTIAL REAL ESTATE RELATIVE TO NEIGHBORING INCOMES. I HAVE OBSERVED THIS PHENOMENON OCCURRING IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. >> YOUR TIME IS UP. >> THANK YOU. >> Chair Downs: THANK YOU. [ APPLAUSE ] >> HANEL, ADAM, AND PHIL DIRE. >> HELLO, PLANO. I WOULD LIKE TO -- MY NAME IS HANEL. I AM IN CAROLTON, 4020 RANDAL LANE. I WOULD LIKE TO JUST BRING TO YOUR ATTENTION WE'VE BEEN THROWING AROUND A LOT OF DATA. I'M GOING TO TRY NOT TO OVERLAP ON ANYTHING THAT HAS BEEN SAID. BUT DATA CAN BE OBSCURED IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER TO BE ABLE TO GET THE VOTE OR THE AGREEMENT ON A CERTAIN SUBJECT. I'M SURE IF WE CHANGE A LITTLE BIT AND I ASK ANY ONE OF THESE PEOPLE ON THE RIGHT IF THEY WOULD APPRECIATE WHEN VISITING FRIENDS AND FAMILY IF THEY'RE ABLE TO ACTUALLY RESIDE RIGHT BY THEIR FAMILIES WITHOUT HAVING TO GO TO A HOTEL I'M SURE ALL OF THEM WOULD AGREE THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING VERY BENEFICIAL FOR THEM. WE HAVE ACTUALLY SIX PROPERTIES, SOME IN PLANO, SOME IN OTHER CITIES. AND INCLUDING THE ONE IN PLANO, WE ARE THE FAVORITE HOUSE ON THE BLOCK BECAUSE WE DO HELP THE COMMUNITY AS FAR AS INSURANCE CLAIMS, AS FAR AS ANYTHING THAT GOES ON IN THE COMMUNITY. WE ARE AN ASSET TO BE ABLE TO PROVIDE THEIR FRIENDS AND FAMILY TO BE ABLE TO VISIT AND ACTUALLY BOND WITH THE FABRIC OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. THE LAST THING I WANTED TO BRING UP IS -- BRING TO YOUR ATTENTION, YOU ARE NOT ONLY DEALING WITH HOMEOWNERS. THERE HAS BEEN A TREND ON WHERE INVESTORS ARE PUTTING -- LIKE ME AND MY WIFE, WE MANAGE PROPERTIES THAT ARE FROM INVESTORS. AND THE FACT THAT THE BAN WOULD HAPPEN EITHER FULLY OR 90 DAYS OR WHATEVER, SEASONAL, WOULD OPEN THE CITY UP TO LITIGATIONS FOR RIGHTS. SO -- I'M SURE THAT WOULDN'T BE SOMETHING THAT THE CITY OF PLANO WOULD WANT TO OPEN THEMSELVES UP TO. SO I WOULD JUST ASK THAT YOU CONSIDER THAT AS WELL. AND SEE THAT WE ARE JUST FIGHTING TO BE ABLE TO -- FOR OUR RIGHTS AND TO BE ABLE TO BENEFIT THE CITY OF WHERE WE ARE OPERATING. THANK YOU. >> Chair Downs: THANK YOU. [ APPLAUSE ] >> ADAM AND THEN PHIL DIRE. >> HI. THANK YOU. MY NAME IS ADAM, 3533 ARBUCKLE DRIVE PLANO. I HAVE A PH.D. IN INDUSTRIAL ORGANIZATIONAL PSYCHOLOGY, A FOCUS ON RESEARCH. AND I HAVE A SERIOUS CONCERN ABOUT A LOT OF THE DATA THAT'S BEEN THROWN AROUND WITH SPURIOUS CORRELATIONS, CONNECTIONS THAT MAY NOT ACTUALLY BE CAUSAL BUT JUST COINCIDENCES WE'RE ABLE TO FIND ON EITHER SIDE OF THE TABLE USING THIS NEW REALITY OF AIRBNB AND THE PLATFORMS WE'VE GOT AVAILABLE TO US TODAY. A LOT OF FOCUS FROM BOTH SIDES HAS BEEN ON THE BENEFITS OF SHORT-TERM RENTALS ON THE HOSTS, BUT THERE ARE A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF ARGUMENTS THAT COULD BE MADE THAT MANY OF THOSE SAME ARGUMENTS COULD BE MADE TO LONG-TERM RENTALS AS WELL WHEREBY WE'RE TURNING OUR HOMES INTO A REVENUE GENERATOR WHICH I DON'T THINK ANYONE WANTS TO DO. BUT I WOULD LIKE TO TALK VERY BRIEFLY IN ADDITION THE THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN SAID ABOUT THE BENEFITS OF SHORT-TERM RENTALS. I'D GUESS THAT MOST PEOPLE HAVE STAYED IN A SHORT-TERM RENTAL. IT'S CONVENIENT. IT'S NICE TO BE NEAR FRIENDS AND FAMILY WE WANT TO BE NEAR BY. WE OPEN OUR HOMES TO PEOPLE SUPPORTING PLANO'S VISITORS AND SUPPORTS THE VISION OF PLANO BEING A CITY OF EXCELLENCE BY WELCOMING FRIENDS AND FAMILY TO COME TO OUR NEIGHBORHOODS AND ENJOY TIME TOGETHER. WE ALSO HAVE PARALLEL INTERESTS. WE DON'T WANT PARTIES IN OUR HOMES. WE WANT TO MAINTAIN THE SECURITY AND THE SAFE OF NOT ONLY THE RESIDENTS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD BUT ALSO OUR HOMES. SO WE HAVE THOSE SAME INTERESTS. WE DON'T BELIEVE THROWING THE BABY OUT WITH THE BATHWATER WOULD BE BENEFICIAL TO ANYONE. LASTLY, I WOULD LEAVE YOU WITH I'M AN ORTHODOX JEW. WHEN WE MOVED FROM PLANO TO ANOTHER HOME WE HAD THE CHOICE BETWEEN KEEPING OUR HOME, SELLING OUR HOME, TURNING IT INTO A LONG-TERM RENTAL OR A SHORT-TERM RENTAL. THE BIGGEST BENEFIT WE COULD PROVIDE TO OUR COMMUNITY WAS KEEPING IT A SHORT-TERM RENTAL WHERE THERE ARE NO HOTELS AVAILABLE TO PEOPLE IN WALKING DISTANCE OF THE JEWISH SYNAGOGUES IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. PLANO BEING A CITY SUPPORTING DIVERSITY EQUITY AND INCLUSION, I WOULD HOPE THAT THAT WOULD BE A CONSIDERATION WHERE THIS IS A NEW AVENUE FOR PEOPLE TO COME AND ENJOY OUR CITY WITHOUT HAVING TO STAY IN CERTAIN SPECIFIC LOCAL AREAS. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. [ APPLAUSE ] >> Chair Downs: THANK YOU. OKAY. I HAVE A QUESTION HERE, BECAUSE WE HAD A LIST OF SPEAKERS AND YOU'VE HAD A LOT OF TIME AND SUDDENLY WE HAVE A WHOLE BUNCH OF PEOPLE WANTING TO SPEAK. UNLESS YOU HAVE SOMETHING DIFFERENT AND UNIQUE TO SAY, COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FROM ANYONE ELSE, I REALLY WANT TO CUT THIS OFF, BECAUSE I WOULD HAVE SET THE TIME MUCH SHORTER EARLIER. SO, ARE ALL THE PEOPLE THAT ARE FILLING OUT CARDS -- YOU HAVE SOMETHING VERY DIFFERENT. IT'S NOT STATISTICS, IT'S -- ALL RIGHT. HOW MANY NEW CARDS DO WE HAVE? >> FOUR. >> Chair Downs: ALL RIGHT. I WANT TO LET THEM SPEAK BUT I HAVE AT LEAST TWO COMMISSION MEMBERS GOING RESTROOM BREAK AND I THOUGHT WE WERE DONE. SO, I'M -- WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A RECESS FOR FIVE MINUTES. WE'LL RESUME AT 8:47. ♪ >> Chair Downs: SOAK. OKAY. SO WE HAVE FOUR SPEAKERS LEFT -- SOUNDS LIKE WE HAVE FIVE. KEEP IT REAL SHORT. YOU DON'T HAVE A PREPARED SPEECH. KEEP IT TO 90 SECONDS. WHO'S NEXT? LET'S CALL THEM. >> READY? >> Chair Downs: YEP. LET'S CALL THEM. >> NEXT IS ZOE REVEL FOLLOWED BY JUSTIN ELLIOT, JENNIFER ASHER. >> Chair Downs: OKAY. SHORT AND SWEET. >> HI, COMMISSIONERS. THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO SPEAK. MY NAME IS ZOE. THAT THE BULLET WENT THROUGH A- LITTLE BIT OVER A YEAR AGO. IT SHATTERED OUR WINDOWS, OUR WALLS, AND FRANKLY, OUR SAFETY IN THE COMMUNITY. AND AS A TEMPORARY BAN COMES TO AN END I JUST WANTED TO REMIND YOU THAT THE CITY'S SHORT-TERM RENTAL ORDINANCE STANDS AS A CRUCIAL STEP TOWARDS ENSURING SUCH INCIDENTS DO NOT REPEAT THEMSELVES. OUR NEIGHBORHOODS ARE MEANT TO BE SAVE HAVENS WHERE FAMILIES CAN THRIVE WITHOUT FEAR. OUR PLANNING AND ZONING REGULATIONS ARE NOT MERELY BUREAUCRATIC MEASURES. THEY ARE SAFEGUARDS PUT IN PLACE TO PROTECT THE INTEGRITY OF OUR CITY AND THE WELL-BEING OF ITS RESIDENTS. LET US NOT PRIORITIZE PROFIT OVER THE SAFETY AND TRANQUILITY OF OUR COMMUNITIES. I WANT TO SAY I THOUGHT I WASN'T OLD, BUT I GUESS I AM. [ LAUGHING ] >> I WANT TO SAY THAT ALL THE WONDERFUL OLD PEOPLE THAT ARE UP THERE, WE TAKE CARE OF EACH OTHER. AND WE -- I HAVE THE BEST NEIGHBORS. THEY TAKE CARE OF MY DAUGHTER, MY PET. THEY ALWAYS SHOW UP WHEN WE NEED THEM TO AND I DO THE SAME. FRANKLY, I FEEL LIKE I'M A GREAT NEIGHBOR AND I HOPE THEY CAN SAY THE SAME. SO, PLEASE JUST CONSIDER THIS FROM US. BECAUSE WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE REPERCUSSIONS OF THE BAD SHORT-TERM RENTALS. ALSO, I'M A THERAPIST AND I WORK FOUR DIFFERENT HOSPITALS. AND THAT'S HOW I MAKE MY MORTGAGE EVERY MONTH. AND I WOULD NEVER PUT THE SAFETY OF A NEIGHBORHOOD BEFORE THAT, TO GET EXTRA CASH. SO. >> Chair Downs: THANK YOU. [ APPLAUSE ] >> JUSTIN ELLIOT, JENNIFER ASHER AND THEN ROY. >> MY NAME IS JUSTIN, I OWN A HOME. I OWN ONE HOME IN EAST PLANO NEAR PARK AND JUPITER. I COMPLETELY RENT IT OUT ALL YEAR ROUND AS A SHORT-TERM RENTAL, WHAT WAS DEEMED THE PROPOSAL AS A VACATION RENTAL. I BELIEVE THIS PROPOSED REZONING COMBINED WITH THE OTHER SUGGESTION FROM THE TASK FORCE SHOULD HAVE BETTER PROTECTIONS FOR THOSE WHO ARE GRANDFATHERED IN. I AGREE WITH THE REGISTRATION, BUT I THINK THAT THERE HAVE BEEN MANY THINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED TO ME OVER THE YEARS OF OWNING THIS HOME. I'VE OWNED IT SINCE 2013. I MOVED OUT OF IT, LONG-TERM RENTAL, COVID, THE TEXAS FREEZE. ON MANY OCCASIONS LIFE EVENTS HAVE OCCURRED. IT HAS CHANGED WHAT I HAD TO DO WITH THE HOME. MY BIGGEST LARGEST ASSET, MY BIGGEST INVESTMENT, THE ONLY ONE I HAVE. EVERY TIME ONE OF THESE HAPPENED IT WOULD BE NICE TO KNOW I'M STILL GOING TO BE GRANDFATHERED IN IF SOMETHING HAPPENS, IF I HAVE TO MOVE AWAY TO TAKE CARE OF MY SICK MOTHER OR WHATEVER IT MAY BE. MY POINT IS THAT HOW I'M USING THAT IS UP TO ME OVER THE LAST TEN YEARS. THERE ARE MANY LARGE EVENTS THAT COULD HAPPEN IN ONE'S LIFE. THERE SHOULD BE BETTER PROTECTIONS FOR THOSE. THE MOST RECENT HISTORY, I WAS LAID OFF UNEXPECTEDLY AND THE AIRBNB WAS MY SAVING GRACE. AS WELL IT WAS THE SAVING GRACE FOR MY MOTHER WHO HAD -- THAT WAS HER ONLY HOME AT THE AGE OF AROUND 65 AT THAT POINT. FOR HER TO BUY THAT HOUSE AND THEN TELL ME HER FIRST ASSET SHE OWNED, SHE HAD TO SELL IT UNTIL I CONVINCED HER TO DO A SHORT-TERM RENTAL AND SHE'S OWNED IT SINCE. THERE'S MANY BENEFITS. I SEE THE POINTS OF THE NON-STR GROUP AS WELL. I DO THINK THAT THERE SHOULD BE A COMBINED EFFORT BETWEEN THE ZONING AND THE SUGGESTIONS OF HOW THE REGISTRATION OCCURS THAT IT SHOULD BE A LITTLE BIT MORE -- SHOULD GIVE MORE TO THE GRANDFATHERING AND BE ABLE TO PROTECT THEM BECAUSE A LOT OF THINGS CAN HAPPEN. I DON'T WANT TO GET RID OF MY HOME, BUT THINGS CHANGE. >> Chair Downs: THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. [ APPLAUSE ] >> JENNIFER ASHER, ROY ZANE, FOLLOWED BY EMILY. >> HI, JENNIFER ASHER. ONE THING THAT HASN'T BEEN ACKNOWLEDGED TONIGHT IS THAT WE'RE LIVING IN A WHOLE NEW WORLD. WE'VE ALL HAD TO PIVOT IN DIFFERENT WAYS IN THIS NEW WORLD. THERE'S ALL DIFFERENT KINDS OF BUSINESSES THAT ARE BEING RUN OUT OF PEOPLE'S HOMES NOW. PEOPLE ARE HAVING CLIENTS COME TO THEIR HOMES WHO ARE THERAPISTS WHO ARE PHOTOGRAPHERS, WHO ARE DIFFERENT KINDS OF PEOPLE WHO ARE BRINGING DIFFERENT TYPES OF PEOPLE TO THEIR HOMES AND ARE RUNNING BUSINESSES OUT OF THEIR HOMES. THIS IS JUST ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF THAT. AND DIFFERENT THINGS ARE HAPPENING IN RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS. ALSO, ANOTHER THING I WANT TO TALK ABOUT IS JUST KIND OF SOME AANECDOTAL EXPERIENCES WE'VE HAD WITH SHORT-TERM RENTALS THAT HAVE BEEN BENEFICIAL TO PLANO AND TO OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. WE ACTUALLY -- OUR FIRST SHORT-TERM RENTAL WAS OUR HOME THAT WE HAD MOVED. WE BOUGHT A NEW HOUSE AND WE COULDN'T SELL OUR OLD HOUSE. WE PUT OUR HOUSE ON AIRBNB. WE STARTED RENTING IT OUT AND ENDED UP SELLING OUR HOUSE TO ONE OF OUR AIRBNB RENTERS, SOMEONE WHO HAD COME TO LOOK -- WHO WAS INTERVIEWING FOR A JOB. THEY FELL IN LOVE WITH OUR HOUSE, WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND ENDED UP BUYING OUR HOUSE. I'M ALL FOR RESTRICTIONS. I'M ALL FOR REGISTERING THE HOUSE. I'M ALL FOR LIMITING THE NUMBER OF GUESTS. I DO THAT NOW AS IT IS. I ABSOLUTELY LIMIT THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO CAN BE IN MY HOUSE. MY NEIGHBORS LOVE THAT THEY HAVE A SHORT-TERM RENTAL ON THEIR BLOCK. WE ACTUALLY -- WHEN WE BOUGHT OUR HOUSE, HAD THE RENTERS SAY ISN'T THIS AMAZING, NOW MY GRANDKIDS CAN COME STAY ON OUR BLOCK WITHOUT HAVING TO STAY IN OUR HOUSE. THERE'S LOTS OF GREAT REASONS TO HAVE A SHORT-TERM RENTAL. IN FACT, THERE ARE WONDERFUL HOSPITALS IN PLANO. WE'VE HAD SEVERAL PEOPLE COME WHO COULDN'T STAY IN HOTELS WHO HAVE STAYED IN OUR HOUSE BECAUSE THEY HAD SOMEBODY AT THE HOSPITAL. WE JUST HAD A FAMILY WHO THEY WERE HAVING A SURROGATE CHILD WHO WAS BORN PREMATURE AND THE BABY COULDN'T BE EXPOSED TO GERMS IN A HOTEL, BUT COULDN'T TRAVEL FOR SEVERAL WEEKS. SO THEY STAYED IN OUR HOUSE WITH FAMILY MEMBERS WHO COULD HELP CARE FOR THE BABY. >> Chair Downs: PLEASE WRAP UP. >> THERE'S JUST LOTS OF -- AND THERE ARE SHORT-TERM RENTALS ALL OVER THE COUNTRY THAT SERVE THESE DIFFERENT PURPOSES THAN A HOTEL. AND PARTICULARLY WITH HOSPITALS IN PLANO. >> Chair Downs: YOU'RE PAST YOUR TIME. >> IT DOES SERVE A VERY SPECIFIC PURPOSE THAT IS A WONDERFUL BENEFIT TO PLANO. >> Chair Downs: THANK YOU. [ APPLAUSE ] >> ROY ZANE FOLLOWED BY EMILY, LASTLY. >> HI. MY NAME IS ROY. I'M THE LICENSED REAL ESTATE AGENT AND ALSO I'M THE PROFESSIONAL PROPERTY MANAGER. SO I WOULD LIKE TO SHARE SOME OF MY EXPERIENCE REGARDING TO THE STR. I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE BEEN USING AIRBNB TO TRAVEL THE WORLD. IF YOU OPEN YOUR APP, IF YOU SEARCH FOR THE PLACE YOU WANT TO GO, I CAN TELL YOU SOME PLACES IS NOT ON THE LIST. FOR EXAMPLE, CHINA. NORTH KOREA. IT SHOWS ZERO. I UNDERSTAND, CITY OF PLANO HAVE THE VISION OF BE A GLOBAL ECONOMIC HUB. I HAVE BEEN SUPER-HOST OF AIRBNB IN THE PAST SEVEN YEARS. I CAN ASSURE YOU, 60% OF MY GUESTS IS FROM THE FAMILY AND THE REMAINING 40 IS FROM THE CORPORATIONS. THOSE PEOPLE THEY CAME TO TEXAS. TEXAS IS ONE OF THE BIGGEST STATE AND PLANO IS ONE FAST POPULATION GROWING CITIES. THEY COME HERE TO OPEN A BUSINESS. THEY ARE RELOCATING. CORPORATIONS SEND THEIR STAFF, PEOPLE COME TO OPEN THE BUSINESS. THEY NEED A PLACE TO STAY. THINK ABOUT ONE OR TWO-NIGHT AIRBNB, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE ANY EXPERIENCE TO STAY ONE OR TWO NIGHTS. THE COST, 150 TO $200 A NIGHT FOR AN ENTIRE HOUSE IN PLANO. PLUS WE NEED TO CHARGE 180 TO 250 CLEANING FEES ON TOP OF THAT. PLUS, AIRBNB CHARGES ANOTHER 50 TO $70 AS A SERVICE CHARGES. IF YOU STAY ONE OR TWO NIGHT, YOU PROBABLY END ABOUT 400 TO $600, WHICH IS DOUBLE OR TRIPLE WHAT YOU PAY TO THE HOTEL. WHY PEOPLE ARE PAYING THAT MONEY? TO STAY IN THE ENTIRE HOUSE IN PLANO. IT'S ONLY BECAUSE THEY HAVE UNIQUE NEEDS -- MEDICAL, FAMILY VISITINGS. CORPORATIONS, THEY ARE OPENING THE BUSINESS. THIS IS ALL ON THE AGAINST UBER. NOW TODAY EVERYBODY USING UBER. TWO YEARS AGO AIRBNB WENT TO IPO. THAT IS ONE OF THE BIGGEST IPOs IN AMERICA IN THE WHOLE WORLD. WHY? THERE'S A REASON. THEY COLLECT THE TAX THAT ESTABLISHES THE ROUTES. WE CAN DO MANY THINGS TO HELP OUR NEIGHBORS STAY PEACE AND QUIET AND SAFE. >> YOUR TIME IS UP. >> Chair Downs: THANK YOU. >> EMILY QUEVOS. >> Chair Downs: LAST BUT NOT LEAST. NO PRESSURE. >> I KNOW. MY NAME IS EMILY AND I'LL TRY TO KEEP THIS SHORT AND SWEET. WE OWN SIX PROPERTIES CURRENTLY ACROSS DFW AND THREE OF MY PROPERTIES CURRENTLY ARE PEOPLE STAYING FOR MEDICAL TREATMENT, NOT FOR VACATION, NOT TRANSIENT PEOPLE. PEOPLE WHO ARE HERE STRICTLY FOR CHEMOTHERAPY AND DIFFERENT FORMS OF TREATMENT. ANOTHER THING I WANT TO POINT OUT IS THAT WE ARE IN NEIGHBORHOODS THAT WE ALSO LIVE IN. IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD WE HAVE AN AIRBNB THAT WE OWN AND RUN AND THE NEIGHBORS COME TO US ALL THE TIME WANTING TO RENT OUR PROPERTIES AND USE THEM FOR THEIR FAMILIES AND FRIENDS. IF THEY WERE SUCH A BIG ISSUE TO THESE NEIGHBORS, THEY WOULD NOT WANT TO DO THAT. ANOTHER THING I WANT TO BRING TO YOUR ATTENTION AND I THINK WE COVERED EVERYTHING ELSE IS PLEASE LOOK INTO WHAT'S GOING ON IN DALLAS RIGHT NOW. DALLAS TRIED TO PUT A BAN ON STRs AND GOT SUED AND RIGHT NOW THERE'S AN INJUNCTION ON IT BECAUSE THE PEOPLE WHO OWN THESE STRs ARE WILLING TO FIGHT FOR THEIR RIGHT TO KEEP THEIR INCOME AND KEEP THEIR HOMES THAT, LIKE PEOPLE HAVE SAID, HAVE BEEN FAMILY HOMES FOR MANY, MANY YEARS. I THINK I SPEAK FOR THE REST OF US HERE THAT IF THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S PUT IN PLACE WHERE WE'RE LOSING INCOME, I BELIEVE ALL OF US WILL ALSO FIGHT FOR OUR RIGHT AND ARE WILLING TO COME WITH LITIGATION. [APPLAUSE] >> Chair Downs: OKAY. I'M ALMOST AFRAID TO ASK. ARE WE DONE? I'LL REITERATE WHAT I SAID. THANK YOU ALL OF YOU FOR BEING HERE. A SHOUT OUT TO EVERYONE HOLDING THE SIGNS. ARM STRENGTH, HOLY COW. YOU GUYS MUST BE AT THE GYM EVERY DAY OR SOMETHING. OKAY. HOW LONG DID THAT TAKE US? NOT TOO BAD. WE TOOK A BREAK IN THE MIDDLE. I WON'T LAY IT ALL ON YOU GUYS. OKAY. SO LET'S PROBABLY GET CHRISTINA BACK UP BECAUSE I KNOW WE HAVE QUESTIONS. AND I WOULD WANT TO DROP BACK TO THE SLIDE WHERE YOU SAY HERE'S WHAT WE WANT GUIDANCE ON. AND EVERYBODY PUSH THEIR BUTTONS. YEAH. ALL RIGHT. SO THE QUESTION WAS -- AND I THINK YOU GUYS ARE GOOD WITH THIS. WE HAVE HAD OTHER MEETINGS BEFORE. I REMEMBER THE JOINT COUNCIL P&Z MEETING AND EVERYBODY WAS RESPECTFUL. THERE WASN'T A LOT OF BOOS AND CATCALLS. I'M NOT TOO CONCERNED ABOUT IT. BUT ANYWAY, IT'S MENTIONED. YES. HERE WE GO. BEFORE WE GET DIGGING INTO THIS, I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS FOR YOU BUT LET'S START WITH MR. RATLIFF. YOU WERE FIRST. >> Ratliff: FIRST OF ALL, CHRISTINA, TO YOU AND YOUR TEAM, THANK YOU. APPRECIATE GETTING THE REPORT OUT A LITTLE EARLY FOR THOSE OF US WHO NEEDED TO READ IT A COUPLE OF TIMES. THAT WAS VERY, VERY BENEFICIAL TO HAVE A COUPLE OF EXTRA DAYS TO DIGEST THAT. I WANT TO THANK YOU PUBLICLY FOR DOING THAT FOR US. AND A HUGE AMOUNT OF WORK ALSO, SO KUDOS. A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS THAT JUST OCCURRED TO ME AS I READ THROUGH THE REPORT AND LISTENED TO THE TESTIMONIES. ON ONE OF THE PAGE -- 92 OF THE PACKET, JUST FOR THE P&Z IF THEY WANT TO LOOK AT IT. THE ONE I CIRCLED WAS, BASED ON YOUR ANALYSIS, WE WOULD HAVE 328 VACATION RENTALS THAT WERE NON-CONFORMING UNDER THIS PROPOSAL. BUT WHAT I'M CURIOUS ABOUT WAS HOW MANY OF THOSE WOULD FALL UNDER THE DEFINITION OF SEASONAL? OR DO WE HAVE ANY IDEA? >> UNFORTUNATELY WITH THE DATA WE HAVE, WE DON'T HAVE AN EASY WAY TO PULL THAT DATA. WE BASICALLY WOULD HAVE TO LOOK AT EACH LISTING INDIVIDUALLY, WHICH JUST TAKES A LOT OF MANUAL TIME TO SEE IF ANYBODY FALLS UNDER THAT. WE DO HEAR ANECDOTALLY THAT SOME LISTINGS DO GET PULLED DOWN FOR A PERIOD OF TIME AND GET PUT UP AGAIN BUT HOW MANY, WE DON'T HAVE A GOOD IDEA. >> Ratliff: THAT KIND OF LEADS INTO MY NEXT QUESTION BECAUSE I HEARD THE ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE THAT SOME PEOPLE GO TO FLORIDA FOR THE WINTER AND RENT THEIR HOUSE WHILE THEY'RE GONE, WAS THAT THE GENESIS OF THIS IS DRIVEN BY THE OWNERS WHO WANT TO RENT OUT ON A 30, 60, 90-DAY PERIOD OR WAS IT -- I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT THE GENESIS OF THIS SEASONAL RENTAL IDEA. >> YEAH. AS I RECALL FROM THE TASK FORCE CONVERSATIONS, SOME OF THE RESIDENTS WERE NOT NECESSARILY OPERATORS BUT NON-OPERATORS NOTED THAT THERE MIGHT BE TIMES THAT THEY MAY NOT BE AT HOME FOR A PERIOD OF TIME AND IT MAY BE BENEFICIAL TO EITHER RENT THEIR HOME OR THEY IMAGINE THEIR NEIGHBORS BEING ABLE TO DO THAT. THE TIME PERIOD, I DON'T RECALL IF THEY SPECIFIED HOW LONG THAT MIGHT BE BUT THE IDEA THAT IT WOULD BE RELATIVELY SHORT. BUT I BELIEVE THE HOSPITAL STAY OR CARING FOR A FAMILY MEMBER WERE MENTIONED AT THAT TIME. >> Ratliff: JUST A COUPLE OF OTHER SORT OF UNRELATED QUESTIONS. AND THIS MAY BE FOR MR. BELL. WHAT IS THE PROCESS NOW FOR SOMEBODY THAT'S GRANDFATHERED, EXISTING NON-CONFORMING USE. WHAT IS THE DURATION OF WHEN THAT USE CEASES BEFORE THE GRANDFATHERING EXPIRES? >> SO WHEN THE USE IS NOT OPERATIONAL FOR A PERIOD OF SIX MONTHS THEN IT WOULD LOSE ITS NON-CONFORMING STATUS. >> Ratliff: SO IF SOMEBODY HAS AN STR TODAY AND THEY DIDN'T RENT IT FOR FIVE MONTHS AND CHOSE TO RENT IT AGAIN, THEY WOULD STILL HAVE THAT GRANDFATHER IN PLACE. IF IT WENT PAST SIX MONTHS IS WHEN THEY'RE IN DANGER OF LOSING THEIR GRANDFATHER STATUS. IS THAT CORRECT? >> POTENTIALLY, I THINK WHERE IT GETS COMPLICATED IS IF THEY ARE CONTINUING TO ADVERTISE IT BUT THEY SIMPLY ARE NOT RENTING IT. IF THEY'RE CONTINUING TO SHOW THAT THEY INTEND TO CONTINUE TO OPERATE IT THEN I THINK WE WOULD ANALYZE EACH ONE INDIVIDUALLY BUT THEY MAY CONTINUE TO BE CONSIDERED GRANDFATHERED, EVEN IF IT'S NOT ACTIVELY BEING RENTED. >> Ratliff: THE INTENT TO RENT IT AS OPPOSED TO THE ACTUAL RENTING ARE EFFECTIVELY THE SAME THING FOR THE PURPOSES OF GRANDFATHERING? >> CORRECT. >> Ratliff: OKAY. THAT WAS GOING TO BE ONE OF MY OTHER QUESTIONS SO THANK YOU FOR CLARIFYING THAT. AND THEN LAST BUT CERTAINLY NOT LEAST I DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING IN THE ORDINANCE EXCEPT FOR THE CHANGES TO ASSEMBLY AND RECREATION. ARE THOSE THE INTENDED ADJUSTMENTS TO THE CURRENT ORDINANCE TO HELP US -- I'VE GOT TO FIND THE RIGHT WORD HEE. TO HELP ALLEVIATE THE BAD ACTORS? >> GENERALLY. THE MAJORITY OF IMPLEMENTATION OF THE PARTY HOUSE KIND OF ISSUE, WE INTEND TO ADDRESS AS PART OF THE REGISTRATION ORDINANCE. HOWEVER, WE DID WANT TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK AT THOSE DEFINITIONS TO SEE IF THEY NEED REVISIONS. SO IN THESE PARTICULAR CHANGES, THE AMUSEMENT COMMERCIAL INDOOR IS FOR A FEE. THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WOULD HELP US IN THOSE ADVERTISED PARTIES THAT CHARGE A FEE TO GET IN. THAT CHANGE WOULD HELP WITH THAT. BUT THE ASSEMBLY HALL IS JUST TO BETTER DISTINGUISH IT FROM SOCIAL OR CIVIC ASSEMBLIES. AND THE OTHER IMPLEMENTATION OF THAT OTHERWISE WOULD FALL UNDER THE REGISTRATION ORDINANCE. >> Ratliff: SO THEN WHAT IS THE PROCESS, I GUESS IN OUR CURRENT ORDINANCE, TO REVOKE THE REGISTRATION SHOULD THE PARTY HOUSE HAVE REPEATED COMPLAINTS? >> SO I CAN'T SPEAK TOO WELL TO THE REGISTRATION PROCESS, THE ORDINANCE -- AND COUNCIL WILL BE DISCUSSING IT HERE AT THE NEXT FEW MEETINGS. BUT THE IDEA, ONE OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF THE TASK FORCE WAS TO HAVE TIERED STRIKES, SO TO SPEAK. AS VIOLATIONS OCCUR ON SITE. >> Ratliff: SO THAT'S GOING TO BE A SEPARATE ORDINANCE THAT WE'RE NOT REALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR HERE. >> Chair Downs: RIGHT. >> Ratliff: THAT'S SPECIFICALLY COUNCIL. >> THAT'S RIGHT. >> Ratliff: THAT'S REALLY WHAT I NEEDED TO LEARN. OKAY. THAT'S MY QUESTIONS FOR NOW. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> Chair Downs: MR. BROUNOFF. >> Brounoff: THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. I JUST WANT TO QUICKLY ADD MY COMPLIMENTS HERE FOR THE MANNER IN WHICH YOU CONDUCTED THIS DISCUSSION. EVERYONE WAS RESPECTFUL. EVERYONE WAS QUIET AND LISTENED TO THE OTHER SIDE EVEN WHEN THEY DIDN'T AGREE WITH IT, AND I THINK THAT'S THE WAY IT SHOULD BE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. MS. SEBASTIAN, I ALSO WANT TO ASK ABOUT THE LIMITED SEASONAL FEATURE OF THIS PROPOSED ORDINANCE THAT YOU PUT TOGETHER. IS THAT INTENDED TO BE A PERMANENT STATUS OR JUST A ONE-TIME THING? >> IT'S REALLY UP TO THE COMMISSION'S DIRECTION. SO IT COULD BE SOMETHING THEY REGISTER FOR AND COULD DO EVERY YEAR OR, YOU KNOW, EVERY TWO, FIVE YEARS, IF THAT'S THE DIRECTION Y'ALL ARE INTERESTED IN. IT ALSO COULD BE A ONE-TIME THING. BUT IT WAS WRITTEN AS AN ANNUAL OPTION EVERY YEAR BUT WE'RE OPEN TO DIRECTION ON WHAT THE COMMISSION FEELS IS APPROPRIATE. >> Brounoff: WHICH LEADS TO MY NEXT QUESTION. UNDER YOUR PROPOSAL, WOULD THE SEASONAL STR OPTION REQUIRE REGISTRATION? >> IT WOULD. >> Brounoff: WOULD IT REQUIRE A SPECIFIC-USE PERMIT? >> IT WOULD NOT. >> Brounoff: WOULD IT REQUIRE RESIDENT MANAGEMENT? >> NO, NOT NECESSARILY. IT COULD BE A VACATION RENTAL OR A LIVE-IN MANAGEMENT. >> Brounoff: OKAY. NOW I'M GATHERING THAT THE PURPOSE FOR RESIDENT MANAGEMENT FOR THE ONE ROOM AND THE TWO TO FIVE-ROOM OPTIONS WOULD BE THAT THE PRESENCE OF A RESIDENT MANAGER WOULD TEND TO DISCOURAGE THE BAD ACTORS FROM ACTING BADLY, CORRECT? >> ESSENTIALLY ONE OF THE TASK FORCE RECOMMENDATIONS WAS THAT LIVE-IN MANAGEMENT MAY MEAN THAT THESE TYPES OF STRs COULD BE REGULATED DIFFERENTLY. >> Brounoff: OKAY. I'M ASSUMING ALSO THAT THE REQUIREMENT FOR THE TWO TO FIVE-ROOM GROUP FOR A SPECIFIC-USE PERMIT IS SO THAT THE APPLICATION CAN BE EXAMINED WITH RESPECT TO THINGS LIKE ITS EFFECT ON THE NEIGHBORHOOD FABRIC DENSITY, NUMBER OF STRs IN THE AREA AND SO FORTH. AGAIN, WITH A VIEW TO PROTECTING THE NEIGHBORHOOD. IS THAT CORRECT? >> WHEN AN SUP IS CONSIDERED, WE COULD LOOK AT ALL THOSE THINGS. >> Brounoff: SO IF YOU'RE PROPOSING A SEASONAL USE THAT DOES NOT REQUIRE RESIDENT MANAGEMENT AND DOES NOT REQUIRE A SPECIFIC-USE PERMIT, HAVE YOU NOT JUST THROWN AWAY THE PROTECTIONS THAT APPLY TO THE OTHER GROUPS? WHAT IS TO PREVENT THAT FROM BECOMING KIND OF AN OPEN SEASON FOR PARTY HOUSES OR OTHER BAD CONSEQUENCES? >> I THINK THE IDEA OF THE LIMITED SEASONAL IS THAT WITH THE OWNER OR RESIDENT AT THE HOUSE THE REST OF THE YEAR, THEY CREATE THOSE RELATIONSHIPS WITH THEIR NEIGHBORS. THEY HAVE THAT COMMUNITY FABRIC AND THEREFORE THEY'RE LESS LIKELY TO HAVE BAD ACTORS AT THOSE SITES. IT'S UP TO THE COMMISSION. >> Brounoff: IF ANYBODY EVER ASKED ME MY AGE, I USUALLY SAY I'M A JUNIOR SENIOR CITIZEN, AND I PLAN TO STAY THAT WAY. >> Chair Downs: A JUNIOR SENIOR CITIZEN? I WOULD GO TRADEMARK THAT TERM PERSONALLY. >> [OFF MIC] >> Chair Downs: YOU WOULD CHALLENGE IT? >> [OFF MIC] >> Chair Downs: OKAY. ALL RIGHT. LET'S FOCUS A LITTLE BIT HERE. AND COMMISSIONER TONG, YOU'RE NEXT. AND I THINK QUESTIONS IN PARTICULAR AS THEY RELATE TO THESE FOUR ITEMS. SO I APPRECIATE, MR. BROUNOFF, YOU'RE FOCUSING IN ON THE SEASONAL. COMMISSIONER TONG, GO AHEAD. >> Tong: OKAY. GREAT. I'M GOING TO FOCUS ON THESE FOUR QUESTIONS. DOES THE [INAUDIBLE] >> Chair Downs: I MEAN, YOUR QUESTIONS ARE FINE BUT I WOULD SAY IF IT'S GETTING INTO, FOR EXAMPLE -- AND I APPRECIATE THE QUESTION ABOUT HOW'S THE ENFORCEMENT MECHANISM GOING TO WORK, THAT'S NOT REALLY WHAT WE'RE FOCUSED ON TONIGHT. >> Tong: OKAY. >> Chair Downs: AND THE REGISTRATION PROCESS AND STUFF IS SOMETHING THAT WILL BE COUNCIL'S ROLE, SO TO SPEAK, VERSUS OURS. WE'RE REALLY TRYING TO CRAFT SOMETHING THAT COUNCIL CAN THEN USE TO CREATE A REGULATION OR A REGISTRATION PROCESS, ET CETERA. SO, GO AHEAD. >> Tong: OKAY. I HOPE THIS IS SOMETHING THAT ACTUALLY PERTAINS. WILL THE GRANDFATHERED PROPERTY STILL NEED TO REGISTER? >> YES. THAT IS THE INTENTION THAT THE GRANDFATHERED PROPERTIES WOULD NEED TO REGISTER. >> Tong: OKAY. THE SECOND QUESTION IS TWO TO FIVE-ROOM, CURRENTLY CALLED THE BED AND BREAKFAST CATEGORY OR TYPE, IS IT THE -- WHEN THEY WANT TO DO THAT, THEY HAVE TO APPLY FOR SUP, IS THAT CORRECT? >> IF THEY'RE IN A LOCATION WHERE -- >> Tong: NOT IN THE HOTEL ZONE OR LIKE IN A RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD, THEY WOULD APPLY FOR SUP. BUT IS THAT EVERY TIME THERE'S A RESERVATION OR IS IT LONG TERM? >> IT WOULD BE JUST ONCE AND THEN IF IT'S GRANTED, IT WOULD APPLY, AS LONG AS THEY CONTINUED TO OPERATE AND DON'T ABANDON FOR SIX MONTHS OR SOMETHING. >> Tong: SO IF A FAMILY HAS FOUR BEDROOMS, THE OWNER LIVES IN ONE BEDROOM AND ONE DAY THEY WANT TO RENT ONE ROOM OUT FOR MAYBE A COUPLE MONTHS. AND THEN THE NEXT TIME THEY GOT A RESERVATION FOR A FAMILY WITH THREE KIDS, THEY NEED THREE ROOMS, DO THEY NEED TO APPLY FOR AN SUP FOR THAT ONE INSTANCE OR DO THEY HAVE TO APPLY FOR THE SUP FOR THE ENTIRE LIFETIME OF THE PROPERTY? >> THEY WOULD APPLY FOR THE SUP FOR HOW MANY NUMBER OF ROOMS THEY HAVE AVAILABLE TO RENT. THAT WOULD APPLY, ESSENTIALLY, FOREVER UNTIL THEY MIGHT RESCIND THAT SUP. I APOLOGIZE. I MISSPOKE EARLIER. THE SIX-MONTH NON-CONFORMITY WOULD NOT APPLY IF THEY HAVE AN SUP. THE SUP LIVES WITH THE LAND UNTIL IT'S RESCINDED. >> Tong: AND THE SUP IS PER ROOM? >> NO. IT WOULD BE PER PROPERTY. >> Tong: OKAY. >> LIKELY I WOULD EXPECT THAT WHEN THEY APPLY THEY SAY THIS IS THE NUMBER OF ROOMS THAT I AM INTERESTED IN OPERATING AND WE WOULD KNOW THAT AT THE TIME. SUPs CAN HAVE RESTRICTIONS IN THEM SO YOU CAN RESTRICT THEM TO THE NUMBER OF ROOMS THEY'RE APPLYING FOR AT THAT TIME AND THAT WOULD BE THE NUMBER OF ROOMS FOREVER FOR EVERY RENTAL THAT THEY HAVE. >> Tong: OKAY. AND THE REASON WHY WE'RE REQUIRING AN SUP ON THE TWO TO FIVE ROOMS VERSUS THE ONE ROOM, IS IT ASSUMING THAT TO DO FIVE ROOMS WOULD BE COMING FROM DIFFERENT FAMILIES OR IS IT THE SAME IF IT'S FROM THE SAME FAMILY IT STILL REQUIRES AN SUP? >> EVEN IF IT IS THE SAME FAMILY, IF THE NUMBER OF INDIVIDUAL CONTRACTS THAT ARE MADE FOR EACH ROOM IS TWO OR FIVE -- TWO TO FIVE, THEN IT WOULD BE A BED AND BREAKFAST TWO TO FIVE AND THEY MIGHT BE THE SAME FAMILY BUT THEY MIGHT BE TWO TO FIVE DIFFERENT FAMILIES, DIFFERENT PEOPLE LIVING ON SITE. >> Tong: AND THE REASON WHY WE'RE REQUIRING AN SUP IS BECAUSE WE THINK THE TWO TO FIVE ROOMS COULD BE RENTING TO DIFFERENT FAMILIES AND THAT COULD IMPOSE INSECURITY TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD. >> IT COULD HAVE MORE OF AN IMPACT TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD, CORRECT. >> Tong: ANOTHER QUESTION IS THAT DO WE ACTUALLY CONSIDER OR HAVE WE CONSIDERED A RULE FOR A PERCENTAGE OF ALLOWANCE OVER AN ENTIRE CITY FOR SHORT-TERM RENTAL. I HAVE HEARD OTHER NEIGHBORHOODS LIKE HOAs MAY HAVE RENTAL PROPERTIES OR ONLY ALLOW 15% OF OUR PROPERTIES TO BE USED FOR A RENTAL OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT . HAVE WE CONSIDERED THAT OR DID THE TASK FORCE HAVE ANY CONVERSATIONS REGARDING THAT KIND OF RESTRICTION? >> SO ONE OF THE TASK FORCE RECOMMENDATIONS WAS TO LIMIT THE MAXIMUM DENSITY OF NEW SHORT-TERM RENTALS IN A SPECIFIED AREA AS A TOOL TO REFINE ZONING. SO WHERE WE CURRENTLY PROPOSED TO IMPLEMENT THAT IS AT THE TIME OF THE SPECIFIC-USE PERMIT WE WOULD DO AN ANALYSIS OF OTHER SHORT-TERM RENTALS IN THE AREA AND PROVIDE THAT INFORMATION TO YOU. SO THE PROPOSAL DOES NOT HAVE A SPECIFIC THRESHOLD THAT IS BEING TARGETED BUT JUST THAT THAT INFORMATION WOULD BE AVAILABLE FOR WHEN THOSE SUPs COME IN. >> Tong: SO IF SOMEONE IS APPLYING FOR AN SUP, THAT WOULD GIVE US A CHANCE TO EVALUATE WHETHER THERE ARE TOO MANY SUPs ALREADY IN THIS AREA. THEN WE CAN DECIDE WHETHER WE WILL APPLY A THRESHOLD TO IT OR NOT. IS THAT WHAT IT IS? >> THAT'S RIGHT. >> Tong: I STILL THINK EVEN THE SINGLE ROOM BED AND BREAKFAST AND THE TWO TO FIVE-FAMILY BED AND BREAKFAST SHOULD HAVE THE SAME RULE FOR THAT. BUT I DON'T KNOW WHETHER IT NEEDS AN SUP OR NOT. BUT IF WE ARE GOING TO USE THAT AS A THRESHOLD TO CONTROL THE PERCENTAGE OR THE DENSITY D OF THE SRT, I THINK THE SINGLE-ROOM RENTAL SHOULD HAVE THE SAME TREATMENT AS THE OTHER. THAT'S JUST MY INPUT. NEXT QUESTION I HAVE IS THE NAMES. I'M NOT SAYING THAT I'M SUPPORTING EITHER SIDE BUT I DO AGREE THAT THE NAMES OF BED AND BREAKFAST OR VACATION HOMES ARE NOT VERY ACCURATE TO PRESCRIBE OR SUBSCRIBE -- WAIT. I CAN'T REMEMBER THE WORD. DESCRIBE THE FUNCTION OF THE HOMES. I THINK THE SHORT-TERM RENTALS, WHAT YOU HAVE IS A LIVE-IN MANAGEMENT VERSUS NOT LIVE-IN OR MAYBE COMMISSIONER BROUNOFF MENTIONED SOMETHING LIKE A RESIDENT MANAGEMENT RENTAL VERSUS BED AND BREAKFAST. I THINK BED AND BREAKFAST IS REALLY NOT A GOOD TERM, IN MY OPINION. AND ALSO VACATION RENTAL IS NOT A GOOD WORD EITHER BECAUSE I DON'T CONSIDER THE CITY OF PLANO A VACATION TOWN. WE DON'T HAVE BEACHES. WE DON'T HAVE AN AT&T CENTER OR SOMETHING. WE HAVE HOSPITALS, EMPLOYMENT CENTERS, WE HAVE BIG COMPANIES MOVING IN BUT WE'RE NOT REALLY A VACATION TOWN, IN MY OPINION. BUT I DO APPRECIATE THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE COME IN HERE TO SAY THAT WE ARE A CITY OF EXCELLENCE. WE WANT TO KEEP OUR NEIGHBORHOOD TIGHT AND WE WANT TO KEEP OUR NEIGHBORHOODS SAFE. I DO AGREE THAT HAVING A STR IN A HOUSE TURNS A HOME INTO A L TYPE OF BUSINESS. SO IT DOES CHANGE A LITTLE BIT S CHANGE A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE USE, THE BASIC USE AND THE UNDERLYING ZONING ON THE PROPERTY. HOWEVER, HOW WILL THAT INTERACT WITH THE RIGHTS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. WE'LL LEAVE IT UP TO DISCUSSION. ONE MORE QUESTION I HAVE IS AOUT PARKING, BECAUSE I CAN SEE A LOT OF THE SHORT-TERM RENTAL BUSINESS CAN HAVE A LOT OF CARS IN FRONT OF THE HOUSE THAT MAY IMPACT THE SAFETY, THE TRAFFIC. THEY MAY BLOCK VIEWS FOR OTHER EOPLE OR KIDS. THAT COULD IMPACT THE FABRIC OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. SO DO WE HAVE ANY DISCUSSIONS COMING FROM OUR STAFF RECOMMENDATION THAT WILL HAVE ANY RESTRICTIONS ON PARKING? >> AT THIS TIME, BECAUSE PARKING IS A CITYWIDE ISSUE AND ANY STANDARDS THAT WOULD APPLY TO A SHORT-TERM RENTAL WE WOULD APPLY TO ANY RESIDENCE CITYWIDE. SO WE WANT TO TAKE THE TIME TO DO AN ANALYSIS OF HOW THIS WOULD AFFECT THE PARKING STANDARDS THROUGHOUT THE CITY. SO IT WOULD ALSO BE A MULTI-DEPARTMENTAL ANALYSIS WITH NEIGHBORHOOD SERVICES, ENGINEERING, WITH OUR POLICE DEPARTMENT. AND SO IT IS SOMETHING THAT ANALYZE PARKING BUT AS A SEPARATE PROJECT SO THAT WE CAN GET SOME STANDARDS IN PLACE BEFORE THE INTERIM BAN EXPIRES AND THEN WORK ON THE PARKING STUDY. >> Tong: OKAY. THAT'S ALL I HAVE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> Olley: THANK YOU. TO ECHO A COUPLE OF THINGS, NAMING MATTERS. I'LL THROW OUT RESIDENT MANAGEMENT ONE, RESIDENT MANAGEMENT TWO TO FIVE. OFF-SITE MANAGEMENT GETS TO THE HEART OF WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO . ON THE GRANDFATHERING THRESHOLD WOUD BE SHORT-ERM RENTALS CURRENTLY IN EXISTENCE. DO THEY HAVE TO BE IN EXISTENCE FOR A PARTICULAR PERIOD OF TIME? YOU KNOW, YOU'VE RENTED OUT FIVE YEARS PRIOR SO YOU HAVE TO HAVE BEEN ACTIVE BEEN A PERIOD OF TIME? >> IT WAS AT THE TIME THE INTERIM BAN WAS ADOPTED BACK IN MAY SO MAY 15, 2023. IF THEY WERE EXISTING WITH A LISTING OR IF THEY HAD INVESTMENT-BACKED EXPECTATIONS THAT THEY WERE STARTING TO OPEN. THEY'VE BEEN MAKING EFFORTS TO OPEN AS A SHORT-TERM RENTAL, THEY WOULD ALSO QUALIFY UNDER THE GRANDFATHERING. >> Olley: AND THOSE EXPECTATIONS WOULD HAVE BEEN SIGNALED BY THEIR USE OF A PORTAL OF SOME KIND OR AIRBNB, VRBO. HOW DO WE CAPTURE EXPECTATIONS? >> SURE. SO THERE'S A PROCESS THAT IS SET UP IN THE ORDINANCE NOW WHERE FIRST STAFF CAN GIVE KIND OF A PRELIMINARY JUDGMET BASED ON THE DATA THAT THEY'VE BEEN ACQUIRING FROM THE PRIVATE CONSULTANT. AND THEN IF THE PROPERTY OWNER DISAGREES WITH THAT ANALYSIS, THEY CAN APPEAL IT UP THROUGH THE DIRECTOR OF PLANNING. AND THEY CAN PRODUCE WHATEVER EVIDENCE THEY HAVE. >> Olley: [INAUDIBLE] >> YES. >> Olley: I THOUGHT I UNDERSTOOD THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT I START CALLING RESIDENT MANAGEMENT ONE VERSUS RESIDENT MANAGEMENT TWO TO FIVE. IS THE DESIGNATION AS TO HOW MANY ROOMS ARE AVAILABLE IN THE HOME OR -- SO I HAVE A FIVE-BEDROOM HOME. AM I AUTOMATICALLY TWO TO FIVE I I RENT TO ONE FAMILY WHO TAKES ALL OF THE TWO TO FIVE BEDROOMS? OR DO I HAVE TO HAVE TWO TO FIVE SEPARATE CONTRACTS? TWO TO FIVE SEPARATE FAMILIES COMING IN AT THE SAME TIME? WHAT'S THE DESIGNATION TRIGGER? >> SO THE WAY WE WROTE IT WAS HAVING ONE SINGLE ROOM AVAILABLE BY SEPARATE CONTRACT OR TWO TO FIVE SINGLE ROOMS AVAILABLE BY SEPARATE CONTRACT. SO IF THEY HAVE FIVE ROOMS AVAILABLE UNDER SINGLE CONTRACT ONLY, THAT MIGHT ACTUALLY BE SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD CLARIFY IN OUR STANDARDS PERHAPS. I THINK THE IDEA IS THAT THEY WOULD LIKELY FALL UNDER THE FIVE, JUST BECAUSE OF THE IMPACT OF HAVING THAT MANY PEOPLE STAY AT THE HOUSE. EVEN THOUGH IT IS ONE FAMILY. BUT WOULD BE INTERESTED TO HEAR. >> Olley: YEAH, I THINK I WOULD MAYBE USE A -- AND I DON'T KNOW HOW WE'LL WORK THIS IN. SOME KIND OF -- WE HAVE OCCUPANCY CODES ON THE BOOKS FOR RESIDENTS, RIGHT? MAYBE USE THAT TO ENFORCE, RIGHT? NO MORE THAN 30 PEOPLE CAN BE UNDER A ROOF. I DON'T CARE HOW MANY ROOMS YOU HAVE. OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. BUT THE TWO TO FIVE IS A LITTLE BIT WONKY, WHICH LEADS TO MY -- THERE'S A DIFFERENT DESIGNATION FOR A SIX-BEDROOM HOUSEHOLD, WHICH IS CLASSIFIED AS A MOTEL OR HOTEL STANDARDS. DID I READ THAT RIGHT? >> SO IF -- YES. IF THEY HAVE SIX INDIVIDUAL ROOMS AVAILABLE UNDER SEPARATE CONTRACT, THEN THEY WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED A TYPICAL RESIDENCE AND THEY SHOULD MEET THE STANDARDS FOR A HOTEL. >> Olley: SO THE LANGUAGE THAT I WOULD NEED SOME CLARIFICATION ON IS THAT SEPARATE CONTRACTS. THAT'S WHERE I'M STUCK ON. I'LL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE. MY FAMILY WAS IN TOWN FOR MY MOM'S 70th AND WE RENTED A SIX-BEDROOM HOUSE. IT'S ONE FAMILY. EVERYBODY SHOWED UP. IS THAT SEPARATE CONTRACTS? YOU UNDERSTAND WHERE I'M LEADING WITH THIS? IT'S ONE CONTRACT? OKAY. SO A SIX-BEDROOM ON ONE CONTRACT WOULD NOT BE CLASSIFIED AS A MOTEL? >> THAT'S RIGHT. I MEAN, YES. THAT'S THE SPIRIT OF IT. >> Olley: OKAY. THE RIGHTS ARE GOING TO BE ATTACHED TO THE LOT. THE BACKYARD COTTAGE, IS IT CONSIDERED ONE ROOM? SO IF I HAVE -- AGAIN, GOING BACK TO THE WHOLE ROOM THING. THE MAIN HOME IS A FOUR, FIVE BEDROOM. MY BACKYARD COTTAGE HAS TWO BEDROOMS. IS THAT A SIX-BEDROOM LOT? >> IF IT'S RENTED AS A SINGLE RENTAL, SINGLE CONTRACT, THEN IT WOULD BE CONSIDERED ONE ROOM. >> Olley: OKAY. I'M CONFUSED HERE. >> Chair Downs: SO WE PROBABLY NEED TO REDEFINE SOMETHING A LITTLE BIT. >> Olley: YEAH, I THINK WE DO. >> Chair Downs: LET'S GO TO B&B ONE. THAT'S ONE ROOM. B&B TWO TO FIVE. I AGREE WITH THEM WE NEED TO WORK ON OUR TERMINOLOGY. B&B TWO TO FIVE. IF ON AIRBNB, VRBO, THEY HAVE FIVE ROOMS AVAILABLE AND THEY'RE IN THE TWO TO FIVE RANGE. IF THEY LIVE ON SITE AND THEY SAY YOU CAN RENT TWO TO FIVE OF OUR ROOMS. YOU CAN RENT ANYWHERE BETWEEN TWO AND FIVE. THAT WOULD STILL BE ONE CONTRACT, EVEN IF SOMEBODY TOOK ALL FIVE ROOMS, RIGHT? THAT'S ONE CONTRACT BECAUSE ONE GROUP TOOK ALL THE ROOMS. BUT IF THEY HAD SOMEONE COME IN THAT RENTED TWO OTHER ROOMS AND ANOTHER FAMILY CAME IN AND RENTED THREE OF THEM, NOW YOU HAVE TWO CONTRACTS. SO IS THE DEFINITION BASED ON THE NUMBER OF ROOMS OR THE NUMBER OF CONTRACTS AVAILABLE BY THE OWNER OF THE STR? >> SO THE WAY IT IS WORDED RIGHT NOW, IT'S THE NUMBER OF INDIVIDUAL ROOMS AVAILABLE BY SEPARATE CONTRACT. >> Chair Downs: BY SEPARATE CONTRACT. OKAY. SO IF THEY HAVE A FIVE-BEDROOM HOUSE AND THEY MAKE TWO ROOMS AVAILABLE AND THREE ROOMS AVAILABLE AND THOSE ARE THE POSTINGS. CAN RENT TWO ROOMS AND YOU CAN RENT THREE. YOU CAN RENT ONLY ONE BUT YOU'RE GOING TO PAY FOR BOTH ROOMS, SO TO SPEAK. THAT'S A TWO-CONTRACT SITUATION, EVEN THOUGH IT'S A FIVE-BEDROOM HOUSE, IT'S TWO, UNDER OUR DEFINITION TERMS? >> YES. AND I THINK -- AND WE CAN DISCUSS FURTHER INTERNALLY BUT I THINK THERE MAY BE SOME OPPORTUNITIES TO REFINE THIS A LITTLE BIT TO ADJUST -- TO CLARIFY THE EXPECTATION IN THOSE SCENARIOS. >> Chair Downs: I THINK IT GOES BACK TO TERMINOLOGY. CONTINUE, MR. OLLEY. >> Olley: YES. JUST ONE OTHER QUESTION. DO WE OR DO WE NOT HAVE FOR RESIDENCES PARKING CODES. IS THERE A MAXIMUM AMOUNT OF CARS OR VEHICLES I'M ALLOWED ON MY LOT? I DON'T THINK I SAW THAT. DO WE HAVE LANGUAGE SPECIFIC TO PARKING FOR RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS IN THE ORDINANCE CURRENTLY? >> RESIDENCES IN PLANO ARE REQUIRED TO HAVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF OFF-STREET PARKING ON THEIR LOT BUT IT'S A MINIMUM, NOT A MAXIMUM. ON-STREET PARKING, IF IT IS AVAILABLE, IT'S AVAILABLE TO EVERYONE. THERE'S NO RESTRICTION ON HOW MANY SPACES A HOME CAN USE. >> Olley: OKAY. LAST QUESTION, MAYBE. THOUGHT PROCESS BEHIND THE MINIMUM THRESHOLD. HOW DID WE ARRIVE AT THAT? >> I'M SORRY. WHICH? >> Olley: THE MINIMUM THRESHOLD FOR STAY. >> Chair Downs: THE TWO-NIGHT MINIMUM? >> Olley: TWO-NIGHT MINIMUM. >> ANOTHER RECOMMENDATION WAS IT MAY BE APPROPRIATE -- LET ME PULL IT UP HERE. SO REQUIRE THAT STR STAYS MUST BE FOR A MINIMUM NUMBER OF NIGHTS. IT DOES SAY IN CERTAIN AREAS OR DISTRICTS AS A TOOL TO REFINE ZONING. SO IT WAS PROPOSED BY STAFF AS A TWO-NIGHT MINIMUM ACROSS THE BOARD BECAUSE THERE SEEMED TO BE SOME CONSENSUS THAT THAT MIGHT HELP WITH SOME OF THESE PARTY HOUSE-TYPE RENTALS. AND THEN THE REASON WE'RE ASKING ON A LIMITED SEASONAL IS THAT COULD BE AN OPPORTUNITY TO REFINE THE ZONING MORE IN THAT SITUATION. BUT THERE MAY BE OTHERS AS WELL. >> Olley: OKAY. THANK YOU. >> Chair Downs: MR. CARY. >> Cary: THANK YOU. SO YOU'RE ASKING FOR FEEDBACK. SO THE FIRST THING I WANT TO DO IS TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE THINGS THAT PEOPLE HAVE SAID HERE THAT I'M IN SUPPORT OF. I THINK WE'RE TALKING ABOUT RELOOKING AT THESE NAMES, AND I THINK THAT'S WISE. I THINK THAT WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT THE TWO TO FIVE, I PERSONALLY THINK THAT IN TERMS OF MANAGING THIS, IT NEEDS TO BE THE NUMBER OF ROOMS I HAVE TO RENT. BECAUSE I PERSONALLY THINK IT WILL BE ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO MANAGE IT ANY OTHER WAY IN TERMS OF HOW MANY CONTRACTS ARE REALLY COMING THROUGH. SO THAT'S JUST MY OPINION. I THINK THE WHOLE ENFORCEMENT OF ALL OF THIS IS GOING TO BE A CHALLENGE FOR OUR CITY BUT I THINK THE MORE SIMPLE YOU MAKE IT. AND, OH, BY THE WAY, BECAUSE I HAVE TO APPLY FOR AN SUP FOR THIS, I THINK IT BECOMES CHALLENGING. THE SUP I APPLY FOR, DEPENDING ON WHAT I'M DOING RIGHT NOW. TO ME IT SEEMS TO BE LOGICAL IF YOU'RE GOING TO RENT OUT BETWEEN TWO AND FIVE ROOMS, THEN THAT'S WHAT YOU HAVE TWO TO FIVE ROOMS AND YOU NEED AN SUP. THAT'S MY OPINION. AGAIN, I THINK THE NIGHTS NEED TO BE LOOKED AT. A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS. AND MAYBE YOU JUST ADDRESSED THIS. BUT WHY DID WE STOP AT FIVE ROOMS FROM TWO TO FIVE? WHY WEREN'T MORE CONSIDERED OR WHY WEREN'T LESS CONSIDERED? WHY NOT FOUR, WHY NOT SIX? WHY FIVE? >> SO THE CURRENT DEFINITION FOR BED AND BREAKFAST INN ALLOWS UP TO FIVE BEDROOMS AVAILABLE. SO WE ALIGNED WITH THAT AND MADE THAT THE KIND OF STARTING POINT ON THE HIGH END. ON THE ONE ROOM OR TWO ROOMS AND THAT BEING THE DIVIDING LINE, THAT WAS A DEBATE THAT STAFF DISCUSSED AND FELT THAT ONE ROOM WAS LESS IMPACTFUL. TWO, YOU COULD HAVE TWO DIFFERENT GROUPS OF PEOPLE STAYNG AT THE HOUSE AND IT MAY START TO CHANGE THE DYNAMIC MORE. AGAIN, IT WAS SOMETHING THAT STAFF WENT BACK AND FORTH ON. >> Cary: SO IF SOMEONE HAS SIX ROOMS IN THEIR HOUSE, WHERE DO THEY FALL WITH ALL OF THIS. THAT THEY WANT TO RENT. WHERE DO THEY FALL? >> SO IF THEY'RE RENTING THEM INDIVIDUALLY, THEN THEY ARE NOT PERMITTED TO DO THAT. >> Cary: PERIOD. >> IF THEY ARE RENTING A SINGLE HOME THAT MAY HAVE SIX ROOMS OR MORE BUT IT'S ALL ONE RENTAL, THEN THAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED A VACATION RENTAL. >> Cary: OKAY. THANK YOU. I ALSO WANTED TO COMMENT ON SOMETHING COMMISSIONER TONG SAID. YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS, IF YOU'RE LOOKING FOR FEEDBACK IS THERE'S NOT ANY GUIDANCE IN HERE IN TERMS OF DENSITY OF THESE. WHETHER IT'S BED AND BREAKFAST ONE OR WHATEVER IT IS. AND I THINK WE SHOULD TAKE A STRONG LOOK AT THAT. IF WE PASS ANY OF THIS. BUT IF WE DO I THINK WE SHOULD TAKE A CLOSE LOOK AT THIS BECAUSE I THINK IT'S GOOD MANAGEMENT FOR OUR CITY NOT TO BE INUNDATED IN CERTAIN AREAS AND I KNOW WE COULD DO THAT WITH TWO AND FIVE. IF BED AND BREAKFAST ONE PASSES I THINK THAT NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT AS WELL. IT'S MY OPINION THIS THIS IS A REALLY CHALLENGING ISSUE PROBABLY FOR ALL OF THE CITIZENS AND EVERYBODY UP HERE. AND I DO THINK WE'RE TRYING TO SORT THROUGH IT IN A WISE MANNER AND I THINK WE'RE MOVING AHEAD AS A COMMUNITY BECAUSE I DO THINK IT'S CHALLENGING. I HAVE EMPATHY FOR THE PEOPLE WHO ARE SAYING THAT, HEY, THIS IS MY INCOME. BUT ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE THAT ARE HERE NOW, THEY'RE ALL GRANDFATHERED IN. AND SO THEY'RE PROTECTED. IT DOESN'T PROTECT FUTURE PEOPLE BUT ONE OF THE THINGS WE'RE TRYING TO PROTECT IS CORPORATIONS COMING IN AND BUYING NEIGHBORHOODS AND TURNING THEM INTO RENTALS. THAT'S HAPPENING ANYWAY WHERE THEY'RE CREATING RENTAL NEIGHBORHOODS. A LOT OF THE THINGS THAT WERE UNANTICIPATED FIVE YEARS AGO WE'RE NOW HAVING TO DEAL WITH AND SO ONE OF THE THINGS I THINK -- AND SOMEBODY CAME IN HERE AND SAID IT -- IS WE NEED TO BE THOUGHTFUL AND NOT FEEL RUSHED AND ONE OF OUR DEADLINES IS OUR ORDINANCE IS GOING TO EXPIRE. MY QUESTION IS PROBABLY FOR MIKE OR MICHELLE. HOW CHALLENGING WOULD IT BE IF THE COMMISSION OR THE COUNCIL SAYS, HEY, WE NEED A LITTLE BIT MORE TIME TO EXTEND THIS ORDINANCE SOMEHOW SO WE DON'T FEEL THE PRESSURE OF RUSHING. IS THAT ONERUS? >> EXTENDING THE BAN IS NOT ONERUS. >> Chair Downs: MY ONLY COMMENT ON THAT IS I THINK WE HAVE A PRETTY CLEAR INSTRUCTION FROM COUNCIL TO MOVE THIS ALONG AND FROM MY SEAT HERE AND OUR SEAT, I THINK IF NECESSARY WE COULD ASK COUNCIL IF THEY HAVE ANY APPETITE FOR THAT BUT I'M HESITANT TO DO THAT WITHOUT GIVING IT AN EFFORT ON OUR SIDE TO TRY TO MEET THAT OBJECTIVE. >> Cary: I AGREE BUT YOU MIGHT ALSO AGREE IF WE'RE NOT THERE IT MIGHT BE WISE FOR US TO ASK FOR THAT. >> Chair Downs: I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT IF WE STILL HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO BUT I THINK -- I DON'T WANT TO SHORTCUT. THERE'S MORE QUESTIONS. BUT THE SHORT-TERM RENTAL TASK FORCE DID A LOT OF WORK AND THEN WITH STAFF'S HELP I THINK THEY'VE GOT US FAIRLY CLOSE. SOMEBODY MENTIONED, HEY, LET'S GET THIS RIGHT. WELL, THE PROBLEM WITH THAT IS ALL WE CAN DO IS GET IT -- WE DON'T WANT TO LET PERFECTION GET IN THE WAY OF PROGRESS? AND SO I THINK WE HAVE TO DO OUR JOB TO TRY TO GET IT TO THEM. WHATEVER THEY DO THEY OBVIOUSLY HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO MODIFY. I DON'T APPRECIATE THE FACT THAT IT'S A SHORT WINDOW BUT I THINK A LOT OF THE HEAVY LIFTING HAS BEEN DONE. >> Cary: I'M JUST ASKING IF COUNCIL WANTS TO DO IT, IT'S THERE. I THINK THERE'S STILL A LOT OF ISSUES HERE AND ONE OF THE THINGS I KNOW IS THERE IS DEMAND FOR RENTAL, NOT JUST SHORT-TERM RENTAL. SO ONE OF THE QUESTIONS OR THINGS THAT'S BEEN A CHALLENGE IS, HEY, I'M GOING TO LOSE MY OPPORTUNITY FOR INCOME. NOT NECESSARILY, BECAUSE PLANO IS STILL A PLACE WHERE PEOPLE WANT TO RENT HOMES. I LOOKED AT THE RENTALS THAT ARE AVAILABLE NOW. THERE AREN'T A TON OF RENTALS WHEN YOU CONSIDER -- LONGER-TERM RENTALS WHEN YOU CONSIDER THAT. I DO HAVE ONE MORE -- >> Chair Downs: AND THE PRICES FOR RENTALS RIGHT NOW -- >> Cary: IS SKY HIGH. I DON'T FEEL COMPELLED THAT WE'RE GOING TO KEEP PEOPLE FROM THEIR ECONOMIC NEEDS BY WHAT WE DO HERE IS WHAT I'M SAYING. I HAVE TWO OTHER QUESTIONS. THE GRANDFATHERED -- IF WE GRANDFATHER THIS -- AND I THINK EVERYBODY AGREES WITH REGISTRATION. IF WE GRANDFATHER ALL OF THESE Y GRANDFATHERED. WILL THAT GO WITH THE PROPERTY? AND IF SOMEBODY SELLS IT, WILL THE RIGHT TO CONTINUE TO USE IT AS AN STR, WILL THAT CONTINUE? I THINK THE ANSWER IS YES, RIGHT? SO THEY HAVE THAT RIGHT. SO THESE GUYS MONETIZE AND SELL IT, IT GOES WITH IT. IN HERE, IT'S 8.2 ASSEMBLY HALL, YOU STRIKE OUT POLITICAL AND RELIGIOUS ON THIS. AND I THINK PROBABLY THE REASON IS BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING TO SAY THAT CIVIC ALREADY IS CAPTURING THAT. IS THERE A DIFFERENT REASON? I WAS CURIOUS WHY POLITICAL AND RELIGIOUS ARE STRUCK UNDER ASSEMBLY HALL. >> SO RELIGIOUS IS ALREADY ENCOMPASSED UNDER THE -- I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY OUR DEFINITION, BUT PLACES OF WORSHIP. >> RELIGIOUS FACILITY. >> THANK YOU. AND THE CIVIC AND THE POLITICAL OVERLAP. >> Cary: I JUST WANTED TO BE SURE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> Chair Downs: THE NUMBERS KEEP COMING UP. MR. LISLE. >> Lisle: THANK YOU, CHAIRMAN. I ACTUALLY JUST HAVE COMMENTS TO MAKE. I DON'T HAVE QUESTIONS FOR STAFF. >> Chair Downs: CAN WE FOCUS ON QUESTIONS? THANK YOU. >> Lisle: I'LL KEEP -- >> Chair Downs: I'LL GET BACK TO YOU. YOU'LL HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY. I PROMISE. MR. BRONSKY. >> Bronsky: OKAY. SO FIRST OF ALL I WANT TO SAY THANK YOU FOR ALL THE WORK. YOU GUYS DO A TREMENDOUS JOB AND I REALLY APPRECIATE IT. I HAVE TO AGREE WITH MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS ABOUT THE NAMING CONVENTION. IT DOES STRIKE ME AS SOMETHING THAT WE COULD PROBABLY DO A LITTLE BETTER ON. BED AND BREAKFAST DOES STRIKE AN IDEA IN PEOPLE'S HEADS ABOUT WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE. AND IT DOESN'T LOOK TO ME LIKE THAT'S WHAT THE INTENTION IS. AND ALTHOUGH I UNDERSTOOD THE DIRECTION THAT YOU CAME FROM FOR THE VACATION RENTALS, I THINK WHEN PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF THIS AREA LOOKS AT IT THEY FIND IT DIFFERENT TERMINOLOGY AND I THINK WE COULD PROBABLY DO A LITTLE BETTER THERE. SO MY FIRST QUESTION WAS IF THERE IS, UNDER THE SEASONAL, SOMEBODY WHO'S GRANDFATHERED IN AND THEY ARE ONLY RENTING IT 30 DAYS A YEAR, RIGHT? MAYBE THEY TRAVEL TO, YOU KNOW, KANSAS FOR CHRISTMAS AND THEY RENT THEIR HOME OUT. BUT THEY ONLY LIST IT IN DECEMBER. WILL THEY LOSE THEIR ABILITY TO RENT FOR THE SHORT-TERM RENTAL IF THEY ONLY SHOW IT FOR THE MONTH BEFORE THEY'RE USING IT? >> THE QUESTION BECAUSE THEY WOULDN'T BE SHOWING IT FOR THE SIX MONTHS OR 11 MONTHS? >> Bronsky: CORRECT. >> AS LONG AS THEY CONTINUE TO KEEP UP THEIR REGISTRATION AND SHOW THAT INTENT THAT THEY CONTINUE TO -- THEY WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE TO DO IT FOR THAT 30 DAYS EACH YEAR, THAT WOULD LIKELY QUALIFY THEM AS A CONFORMING. >> Bronsky: SO THEY WON'T ABANDON IT AFTER SIX MONTHS FOR THAT? >> RIGHT. >> Bronsky: OKAY. YOU HAD A LOT OF CONVERSATION ABOUT BEDROOMS. AND IT STRUCK ME BECAUSE I THINK MOST OF US, AS WE'RE SITTING UP HERE AND WE'RE THINKING ABOUT BEDROOMS, WE'RE THINKING ABOUT TRADITIONAL BEDROOMS. BUT I SPENT JUST A FEW MINUTES LOOKING THROUGH A COUPLE OF THE APPS. THERE ARE SOME PLACES THAT ARE SHOWING AS MANY AS FOUR OR FIVE BEDS PER ROOM. AND WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE IMPACT OF THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE ON THE COMMUNITY, THAT CONCERNS ME, ESPECIALLY IF THEY'RE ABLE TO RENT OUT EACH ONE OF THOSE ROOMS. I MEAN, BUNK BEDS, DOUBLE BUNK BEDS. AND THE NUMBERS GO 16 AND MORE PEOPLE. AND SO I'M NOT SURE THAT WE'RE THINKING ABOUT A BEDROOM AND WE'RE SEEING OUR MASTER BEDROOM OR MAYBE OUR KID'S BEDROOM. WE'RE NOT SEEING FOUR DOUBLE BEDS OR FOUR FULL-SIZE BEDS PER ROOM. AND SO THE LANGUAGE THAT IS AROUND THE CONTRACTS ON THAT, WE STILL AREN'T NECESSARILY NOTING THAT SOME OF THESE ROOMS MAY BE LARGE ROOMS WITH A LOT OF EXTRA BEDS IN THEM, CORRECT? >> CURRENTLY IT DOES NOT TALK ABOUT THE NUMBER OF BEDROOMS IN THE ZONING PROPOSAL. >> Chair Downs: NUMBER OF BEDS. >> THE NUMBER OF BEDS. SORRY. >> Bronsky: OKAY. AND THE OTHER QUESTION I HAD FOR MAYBE APARTMENTS THAT ARE RENTING OUT SHORT-TERM RENTALS AND THEY EXCEED FIVE UNITS THAT ARE BEING RENTED IN A SHORT-TERM CAPACITY, ARE THOSE THEN TURNING THE ENTIRE -- IS THAT TURNED INTO A HOTEL OR HOW IS THAT HANDLED? SO IT'S PER DWELLING UNIT, ESSENTIALLY. SO EACH INDIVIDUAL APARTMENT WOULD BE ABLE TO BE ITS OWN SHORT-TERM RENTAL. SO THE BUILDING WOULD NOT BE LOOKED AT AS A WHOLE. >> Bronsky: YOU'RE NOT LOOKING AT THE ONE PROPERTY THAT IT'S SITTING ON. IT'S ACTUALLY THE UNITS THEMSELVES. >> CORRECT. >> Chair Downs: DOES THAT FIT IN OUR GRID, THOUGH? I THINK THE ONLY ONE-BEDROOM STYLE CLASSIFICATION WE HAVE IS FOR SOMEONE WHO LIVES THERE RIGHT? OR WOULD IT BE CONSIDERED VACATION BECAUSE IT'S A SELF-CONTAINED UNIT WITH NO ONE ON SITE. >> Bronsky: I'M ACTUALLY TALKING ABOUT APARTMENTS THAT WANT TO RENT. >> Chair Downs: OH, I UNDERSTAND BUT SHE'S TALKING ABOUT EACH UNIT WOULD BE CONSIDERED SEPARATELY. >> EACH APARTMENT UNIT COULD BE A BED AND BREAKFAST ONE ROOM. IT COULD BE A BED AND BREAKFAST TWO TO FIVE ROOM. IT COULD BE A VACATION RENTAL, DEPENDING ON WHO LIVES ON SITE AND HOW THEY -- HOW MANY ROOMS, IF THEY RENT OUT THE FULL UNIT. >> Bronsky: BUT MY QUESTION IS IF THERE'S SIX OR SEVEN UNITS THAT ARE ON ONE SINGLE PROPERTY. >> EACH OF THOSE INDIVIDUAL UNITS COULD BE ITS OWN SHORT-TERM RENTAL. SO IN THEORY YOU COULD HAVE ALL OF THOSE SIX UNITS OR HOWEVER MANY ALL BE SHORT-TERM RENTALS. THE OTHER PART OF THIS IS THE REGISTRATION WOULD REQUIRE THE OWNER TO BE AWARE OF THIS AND SO -- >> Bronsky: THEY WOULD HAVE ON-SITE PROPERTY MANAGEMENT IF IT WAS AN APARTMENT COMPLEX, PROBABLY. >> THE INTENT OF THE BED AND BREAKFAST IS THAT IT IS LIVE-IN IN THE DWELLING UNIT. SO THE ON-SITE APARTMENT MANAGEMENT WOULD NOT QUALIFY FOR THAT. >> Bronsky: EVEN THOUGH IT'S ON THE SAME PROPERTY? >> RIGHT. THE EXPECTATION THAT THAT APARTMENT MANAGER IS MANAGING THE WHOLE APARTMENT COMPLEX BUT THEY ARE NOT NECESSARILY MANAGING THE SHORT-TERM RENTAL THAT'S HAPPENING IN EACH UNIT. THEY COULD BE. >> Bronsky: MY QUESTION IS THEY WERE. THAT THE OPERATION OF THE APARTMENTS, THEY WANT SIX OR EIGHT OF THEM TO BE SHORT-TERM RENTALS SO THAT PEOPLE COMING FROM OUTSIDE THE AREA, SO THAT THEY CAN WORK OR WHAT HAVE YOU IN PLANO FOR PERIODS LESS THAN 29 DAYS. TO ME, THERE'S A LITTLE CONFUSION BETWEEN THE BACKYARD COTTAGE, WHICH IS A SEPARATE BUT STILL IN CHARGE OF THE SAME PROPERTY WITH A PROPERTY MANAGER VERSUS AN APARTMENT COMPLEX WITH SIX OR EIGHT WITH A PROPERTY MANAGER ON THE APARTMENT AS WELL. >> Chair Downs: HOW DO YOU DIFFERENTIATE? >> Bronsky: THAT'S EXACTLY MY QUESTION. THEY'RE STILL ON THE SAME PARCEL OF PROPERTY. >> IF THE COMMISSION WANTED TO CONSIDER THOSE DIFFERENTLY, WE DEFINITELY COULD. I THINK THE BACKYARD COTTAGE IS JUST ONE LOT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S TWO UNITS ON THE SITE. THERE'S THE MAIN HOME AND THE BACKYARD COTTAGE. WHEREAS AN APARTMENT COMPLEX COULD HAVE ANY NUMBER OF RENTALS THAT THEY WOULD BE OPERATING. SO... >> Bronsky: IT'S JUST A QUESTION FOR ME BECAUSE I HAPPEN TO THINK ABOUT THAT CONNECTION OF PROPERTY MANAGEMENT ON SITE ON THE SAME PARCEL ON THE SAME PROPERTY AND HOW THAT'S HANDLED BACK AND FORTH. I'LL LEAVE THAT UP TO YOU GUYS TO FIGURE OUT BUT I DO HAVE CONCERN ABOUT THE IMPACT TO COMMUNITY FABRIC THAT WE HAVE, THINKING A ONE BEDROOM IS A SINGLE BED VERSUS A, FOR EXAMPLE, A FOUR-BEDROOM OR FIVE OR SIX BEDROOMS THAT LIST 11, 12 OR MORE BEDS THAT ARE IN THOSE UNITS. THAT'S A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF PEOPLE COMING IN TO SOME NEIGHBORHOODS. I DO BELIEVE THAT THAT COULD BE A SIGNIFICANT IMPACT TO THE FABRIC OF CERTAIN COMMUNITIES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR PATIENCE. AGAIN, THANKS FOR ALL OF YOUR HARD WORK AND FOR TAKING ALL THE QUESTIONS. I REALLY APPRECIATE IT. >> Chair Downs: LET'S TAKE THE EXAMPLE THOUGH OF AN APARTMENT COMPLEX. IT DOESN'T EVEN HAVE TO BE A 200-UNIT APARTMENT COMPLEX. WHAT IF IT'S A SIX-UNIT APARTMENT COMPLEX AND THE MANAGER LIVES ON SITE. AT WHAT POINT DOES IT SIMPLY BECOME A HOTEL BECAUSE HOTEL HAS MANAGEMENT ON SITE WITH A WHOLE BUNCH OF ROOMS AND THEY'RE ALL PRIVATE WITH THEIR OWN BATHROOMS AND EVERYTHING ELSE. THERE'S PROBABLY SOMEWHERE IN HERE A DEFINITION THAT COULD MANAGE THAT PROCESS. LET'S KEEP MOVING AND PRETTY SOON, WE'RE ALMOST 10:00. FROM A QUESTION STANDPOINT, WE'RE GOING TO NEED TO START LOOKING AT THESE AND ADDRESSING THESE FOUR TOPICS PRETTY SOON BECAUSE I'M SURE STAFF IS TAKING GOOD NOTES. WE'VE HAD SOME REALLY GOOD POINTS. MR. RATLIFF. >> Ratliff: I'LL BE REALLY QUICK. I PROMISE I'LL MAKE THEM REALLY FAST. ON THE APARTMENT DEAL, IT SEEMS LIKE RIGHT NOW WE'RE SAYING IF THEY'RE IN A DISTRICT ZONED FOR HOTELS, THAT COULD BE FAIRLY EASILY REMEDIED IF WE EXPANDED THAT TO MULTIFAMILY WITH NO MORE THAN A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE USED AS STRs. BUT THAT'S JUST A SUGGESTION. MY QUESTION REALLY IS ABOUT THE QUESTION PARTY HOUSES. ONE OF THE REASONS THAT Y'ALL CHOSE THE TWO-NIGHT MINIMUM WAS TO REDUCE THE OPTIONS FOR PARTY HOUSES. WE KNOW WE'VE GOT -- I CAN'T REMEMBER THE DATA RIGHT NOW. A DOZEN BAD PLAYERS OUT THERE THAT IS ONE OF THE REASONS IT'S DRIVING SOME OF THIS. BASED ON THE DATA, DO WE KNOW IF ANY OF THE -- THOSE BAD ACTORS THAT WE HAVE IDENTIFIED ARE STRs THAT HAVE ON-SITE MANAGEMENT? >> SO WE HAVE KIND OF -- WE HAVE 15 THAT WE HAVE HAD -- SORRY. I THINK IT'S THREE OR MORE CALLS FOR SERVICE. IT MIGHT BE TWO OR MORE. I THINK IT'S THREE OR MORE. AND ALL OF THOSE WOULD QUALIFY AS VACATION RENTALS. THEY DO NOT HAVE LIVE-IN MANAGEMENT, PER THE DATA WE HAVE. >> Ratliff: SO THE ON-SITE MANAGEMENT IS A SIGNIFICANT DETERRENT, APPARENTLY, BY THE DATA, WHICH TELLS ME THAT WE MIGHT CONSIDER A DIFFERENT MINIMUM STAY FOR ON-SITE FOR THE PROPERTIES THAT HAVE ON-SITE MANAGEMENT IF WE HAVEN'T HAD A HISTORY OF ANY PROBLEMS? >> [OFF MIC] >> Ratliff: THANK YOU. >> Chair Downs: MR. OLLEY. >> Olley: I'LL MAKE IT QUICK TOO. ONE CLARIFYING QUESTION BASED ON COMMISSIONER RATLIFF. MULTIFAMILY HOUSING, AM I CORRECT TO ASSUME THAT USUALLY IS IN A DISTRICT WHERE HOTELS ARE PERMITTED BY RIGHT? >> THERE ARE DEFINITELY SOME DISTRICTS WHERE HOTELS ARE PERMITTED BY RIGHT AND MULTIFAMILY IS PERMITTED. BUT OUR TRADITIONAL MULTIFAMILY DISTRICTS, MF-1, MF-2, MF-3 DO NOT PERMIT HOTELS. >> Olley: SECOND QUESTION. I THINK I KNOW THE ANSWER BUT I WANT TO HAVE YOU SAY IT ON THE RECORD. THOUGHT PROCESS BEHIND THE EXCEPTION. >> I'M SORRY. CAN YOU REPEAT THAT. >> Olley: THE THOUGHT PROCESS BEHIND THE HERITAGE EXCEPTION. >> AS WE WERE LOOKING AT THE BED AND BREAKFAST TWO TO FIVE ROOMS AS KIND OF THE TRADITIONAL BED AND BREAKFAST MODEL IS NOTED THAT HERITAGE PROPERTIES MAY OFTEN BE USED AS BED AND BREAKFASTS. NOT ALWAYS. I DON'T KNOW THAT WE HAVE ANY RIGHT NOW BUT THAT WAS THE REASON, WHETHER THAT IS APPROPRIATE IS UP TO COUNCIL. >> Olley: I THINK THAT'S FAIR. I ACTUALLY WANTED TO BRING THAT UP JUST IT SHOWS THE EXTENT OF RESEARCH YOU GUYS DID. HERITAGE IS PROBABLY ONE OF THE MANY REASONS WHY PEOPLE WILL VISIT PLANO AS A DESTINATION CITY. APPRECIATE YOU CLARIFYING THAT. >> Chair Downs: MR. LISLE. >> Lisle: I DID COME UP WITH A QUICK QUESTION. WHEN THINGS SEEM REALLY COMPLICATED I TRY TO DUMB IT DOWN TO SIMPLICITY. WHAT DOES THE WORD "RESIDENTIAL" MEAN? >> WHERE PEOPLE LIVE. >> Lisle: WHERE THEY RESIDE. OKAY. THANK YOU. >> Chair Downs: WHO WOULD BE NEXT? MR. BRONSKY WOULD BE NEXT. IT JUST POPPED INTO MY HEAD AS I WAS LISTENING. WE JUST RECENTLY APPROVED THE AGAPE HOUSE TO EXPAND AND THEY PROVIDE SERVICES THAT, IN SOME CASES, COULD BE VERY SHORT TERM BUT GENERALLY ARE A LONGER TERM. AND THEY'VE GOT FIVE AND SIX DWELLING UNITS ON A SINGLE PROPERTY. AS A MATTER OF FACT, TALKED ABOUT WANTING TO HAVE THE PROPERTY MANAGEMENT ON SITE. WHAT IMPACT DO ORGANIZATIONS LIKE THAT WILL THESE DECISIONS HAVE ON THEM? >> SO AS A HOUSEHOLD CARE FACILITY, THEY WOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED A SHORT-TERM RENTAL. IT'S A SEPARATE USE. THEY WOULD NOT BE IMPACTED. >> Bronsky: YEAH. I KNOW THEY DO RENT OUT THOSE UNITS AND I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE WERE COMING FULL CIRCLE IN CONSIDERING THAT. THANK YOU. >> Chair Downs: MR. CARY. >> Cary: MINE ARE AT YOUR DIRECTION HERE ON WHERE WE'RE AT, MY COMMENTS ON THIS. NUMBER THREE YOU ASKED WHAT SHOULD THE MINIMUM NIGHT STAY BE FOR SEASONAL AND I THINK IT'S THE WRONG QUESTION. NO, IT'S THE RIGHT QUESTION, I GUESS. THE MINIMUM NIGHT SHOULD BE AT LEAST 30 NIGHTS IF WE'RE GOING TO GO WITH SEASONAL. I DON'T THINK THESE SHOULD BE CONSIDERED AS SHORT-TERM RENTALS PERIOD. AND SO I THINK WE SHOULD MOVE THE SEASONAL VACATION, IF YOU WILL, COMPLETELY OUT OF THIS CATEGORY. SO I THINK THAT A MINIMUM SHOULD BE AT LEAST 30 NIGHTS IF WE'RE GOING TO CONSIDER THAT. AND I WOULD SUGGEST THAT IT WOULD BE NO MORE THAN 90 NIGHTS BY THE THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN PRESENTED HERE. IF WE APPROVE VACATION AT ALL. AND THE OTHER THING, YOU KNOW, COMMISSIONER TONG EARLIER WAS JUST TALKING ABOUT DENSITY AND I WANT TO COME BACK TO DENSITY AGAIN. I THINK ALL OF THIS NEEDS TO BE PUT THROUGH THE FILTER IN TERMS OF DOES THIS MEET THE SPIRIT OF WHAT WE'RE DOING AND DOES IT MISS THE GOALS. AND IF WE'RE NOT CAREFUL I THINK WE'LL MISS THE GOALS OF THE COMMUNITY. AND I THINK THAT ALL OF THIS NEEDS TO BE PUT THROUGH THAT FILTER. REGARDLESS OF WHAT WE APPROVE AND SEND FORWARD TO COUNCIL, I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE A DENSITY FILTER SO WE AREN'T SATURATED WITH SHORT-TERM RENTALS. IF WE'RE GOING TO CONSIDER VACATION, I THINK THE MINIMUM TIME THAT THAT SHOULD BE CONSIDERED IS 30 NIGHTS. >> Chair Downs: OKAY. YOU'VE BEEN STANDING THERE FOR A WHILE. YOU OKAY? >> I'M ALL RIGHT. >> Chair Downs: DO WE HAVE A TALL STOOL? I ACTUALLY HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS AND, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, AN HOA HAS THE POWER TO BAN SHORT-TERM RENTALS. OKAY. IF THAT'S TRUE, AND WE LOOK AT THE MAP YOU PRESENTED TO US ON PAGE 108 AND IT SHOWS ALL THE SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL OR BASICALLY ANY PLACE WHERE SOMETHING LIKE THAT -- DOES THAT MAP EXCLUDE HOAs, WHICH HAVE THE POWER SEPARATE FROM US TO BAN SHORT-TERM RENTALS. >> IT DOES NOT EXCLUDE THEM. >> Chair Downs: SO THE ACTUAL AREAS THAT SHORT-TERM RENTALS MIGHT BE AVAILABLE REALLY IT ISN'T ALL THAT GREEN AREA. IT'S A DIFFERENT AREA OKAY. JUST SO THAT -- JUST FROM THE STANDPOINT OF SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T WANT SHORT-TERM RENTALS, AND YOU SEE THAT MAP AND YOU THINK ANYWHERE IN THE CITY THEY COULD SET UP ANYWHERE IN THESE GREEN AREAS. WELL, THE TRUTH IS, THAT'S NOT TRUE. HOAs MAKE UP A GOOD PORTION OF THE RESIDENTIAL AREAS, PARTICULARLY ON THE WESTERN SIDE OF TOWN. SO THEY HAVE POWER BEYOND WHAT THE CITY HAS TO DO CERTAIN THINGS. I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT MAP WASN'T REFLECTING HOAs. AND IT DOES NOT. OKAY. OKAY. I'M A LITTLE CONCERNED, I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY THIS. IF SOMEONE'S OPERATING A ONE-BEDROOM -- WE'RE NOT GOING TO CALL IT A B&B, WHATEVER WE'RE GOING TO CALL IT. AND AS WAS MENTIONED AND AS I KNOW IS TRUE FROM IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD THIS HAPPENED. A FAMILY COMES TO STAY FOR MEDICAL REASONS AND THEY STAY THERE FOR SIX MONTHS WHILE THEY'RE GETTING TREATMENT FOR BURNS, A FAMILY MEMBER, WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE. THAT PERSON WHO NORMALLY RENTS SHORTER-TERM PERIODS BUT FOUND SOMEONE TO RENT THAT ROOM FOR SIX MONTHS, HAVE THEY NOW LOST THE ABILITY TO GO BACK TO DOING WHAT THEY DID BEFORE, SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY DECIDED TO HELP A FAMILY IN NEED? I HAVE TROUBLES WITH THAT. SO HOW DO WE RECTIFY THAT SITUATION? >> SO I THINK IT GOES BACK TO THEIR BEING ABLE TO PROVE INTENT. IF THEY'RE REGISTERED AS A SHORT-TERM RENTAL, LISTING AS A SHORT-TERM RENTAL, EVEN IF THEY BLOCKED THAT PART OFF BUT ARE AVAILABLE AFTERWARDS, THEY ARE LIKELY TO PROVIDE DOCUMENTATION THAT THEY INTENDED TO CONTINUE. >> Chair Downs: THEIRúINTENTION. THEY COULD LEAVE IT LISTED, IT'S JUST NOT AVAILABLE FOR RENT IF SOMEONE TRIED TO RENT IT. OKAY. I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT FOR PARTICULARLY THOSE THAT ARE GRANDFATHERED TO KNOW SO THAT THEY UNDERSTAND THAT SITUATION. CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT KIND OF BUSINESSES ARE ALLOWED OUT OF A SINGLE-FAMILY HOME? BALLPARK. >> WE ALLOW HOME OCCUPATIONS. THERE ARE A NUMBER OF RESTRICTIONS ON THAT, INCLUDING THE FLOOR AREA OF THE HOME THAT CAN BE USED. BUT THERE'S NO TRUE LIMITATION ON WHAT TYPES OF BUSINESSES THEY CAN BE. THERE ARE SOME RESTRICTIONS ON THE STORAGE OF THINGS OUTSIDE OR WORKING ON THINGS OUTSIDE. SO LIKE VEHICLE REPAIR WOULD BE PROBLEMATIC IN THOSE CASES. BUT OFFICES, PHYSICAL THERAPY OFFICE, THOSE ARE KIND OF THE MAIN ONES I THINK THAT WE MIGHT SEE AND HEAR ABOUT. BUT I THINK THERE'S PLENTY OF OTHER CREATIVE IDEAS OUT THERE. >> Chair Downs: SO THE IDEA THAT SOMEONE'S RUNNING A BUSINESS AS AN AIRBNB OUT OF THEIR HOUSE, IT'S TOUGH TO SAY, YEAH, WE'RE NOT GOING TO ALLOW THAT BUT WE'LL ALLOW THE NEIGHBOR NEXT TO THEM IS RUNNING A LAWN CARE SERVICE AND PARKS A TRUCK WITH A BIG TRAILER OUT ALL THE TIME. THAT'S OKAY. SO I STRUGGLE WITH THIS A LITTLE BIT. LET'S FOCUS ON THIS. NUMBER ONE, DOES THE PROPOSAL MEET THE SPIRIT INTENT OF THE LAND USE AND ZONING REGULATIONS PROVIDED BY THE SHORT-TERM RENTAL TASK FORCE? NOW, HERE'S WHAT I KNOW. THE TASK FORCE WAS APPOINTED BY CITY COUNCIL AND I THINK A VERY, VERY WISE MOVE ON THEIR PART WAS TO CHOOSE FORMER MAYOR DWYER TO LEAD THAT. I DON'T KNOW ANYONE THAT'S MORE CARING ABOUT THE CITY BUT IS FANTASTIC ABOUT LISTENING TO ALL SIDES OF AN ARGUMENT. AND IT SOUNDS LIKE, WHAT I'M SEEING HERE, I HAVE HEARD FROM BOTH SIDES WE DON'T LIKE IT. AND THAT TENDS TO MEAN THAT MAYBE WE'RE GETTING CLOSE TO WHERE WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE. BECAUSE YOU GUYS REPRESENT A PORTION OF THE CITY. MAYBE A LARGE PORTION OF THE CITY. I'VE HEARD THE COMMENTS THAT IT WASN'T FAIR ON THE TASK FORCE BECAUSE THERE WERE MORE PEOPLE OPPOSED TO SHORT-TERM RENTALS THAN IN FAVOR OF IT. WRONGLY, RIGHTLY, WHATEVER IT IS THE MAJORITY -- I'M NOT EVEN GOING TO SAY 70%. BUT THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE IN THIS CITY PROBABLY FEEL LIKE THEY'RE HESITANT. THEY'RE UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THE IDEA OF SHORT-TERM RENTALS. MAYBE THEY CAN'T EVEN EXPLAIN WHY. SO I DON'T REALLY TAKE ISSUE WITH THE FACT THAT THERE WAS IMBALANCE IN THE COMMITTEE BECAUSE IT'S A REPRESENTATION OF OUR CITY AS A WHOLE. AND SO THAT'S HOW WE'RE GOING TO APPROACH THIS. FOR ME, DOES THE PROPOSAL MEET THE SPIRIT AND INTENT? I'M THANKFUL TO THOSE THAT ARE OPPOSED TO SHORT-TERM RENTALS, THAT WHAT CAME OUT OF THE COMMITTEE WAS AN ACCEPTANCE OF, YES, WE SHOULD GRANDFATHER THOSE THAT ARE ALREADY HERE. YES, THERE COULD BE ROOM FOR ALLOWING THEM AND NOT EVERYBODY ON THE COMMITTEE AGREED WITH THIS BUT THE MAJORITY, ROOM FOR ALLOWING THEM IN CERTAIN AREAS. FOR ME, ANYWAY, MY FEEDBACK TO THE STAFF IS THAT I THINK THE SPIRIT AND INTENT IS ACCURATE. WE'RE GOING TO GET INTO NUMBER 2, 3, AND 4 AND I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY WHERE WE'LL HAVE MORE I'M GOING TO RUN AROUND REAL QUICK AND START WITH MR. LISLE BECAUSE YOU STARTED OUT BY SAYING I HAVE COMMENTS. APPROPRIATE TIME TO MAKE COMMENTS. CAN YOU START WITH NUMBER 1 BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO GET TO 2, 3, AND 4 UNLESS YOUR COMMENTS ARE NOT RELATED TO ANY OF THOSE. >> Lisle: I DON'T THINK WE'RE ASKING THE RIGHT QUESTIONS. I THINK THE RIGHT QUESTION IS WHAT IS A RESIDENTIAL USE. AND I ASKED THAT AND IT'S WHERE SOMEONE LIVES. THAT'S WHAT CAME FROM THE PODIUM. AND FROM HERE WHERE SOMEONE RESIDES. I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO HONOR THE ZONING ORDINANCE THAT WE ALREADY HAVE AND WE ALREADY HAVE CHAPTER 14 THAT BREAKS USES DOWN BETWEEN RESIDENTIAL AND WHAT'S APPROPRIATE IN RESIDENTIAL AND WHAT IS COMMERCIAL AND WHAT'S APPROPRIATE IN COMMERCIAL. HOTELS AND MOTELS ARE APPROPRIATE IN COMMERCIAL AREAS. THAT'S WHAT THE ZONING ORDINANCE CURRENTLY SAYS. THEY'RE NOT APPROPRIATE OR ALLOWED IN RESIDENTIAL AREAS. AS I WAS LOOKING AT THESE TERMS, RESIDENTIAL AND RESIDE, I WENT TO OUR ELECTIONS PAGE. OUR ELECTIONS PAGE REQUIRES THAT PLACE 2 AND PLACE 4 RESIDE IN A SPECIFIC DISTRICT. THERE'S NO QUESTION IN MY MIND THAT THAT MEANS THAT THOSE COUNCIL MEMBERS HAVE TO LIVE IN THOSE AREAS. THAT'S WHAT IT MEANS TO RESIDE, IN MY OPINION. AND SO THEN I LOOK TO OTHER THINGS. IN ORDER TO RUN THE AIRBNB, YOU HAVE TO PAY A HOTEL AND MOTEL TAX. YOU HAVE TO ADVERTISE ON A PLATFORM THAT'S AVAILABLE TO THE WORLD. THESE ARE COMMERCIAL IN NATURE. AND SO THEN I LOOK TO OTHER BUSINESSES, LIKE YOU JUST BROUGHT UP. AND I WOULD SAY THAT IF YOU WANT TO CHANGE YOUR LAWNMOWER BLADE AND THE OIL ON YOUR LAWNMOWER, YOU CAN DO THAT. IF YOU WANT TO HELP YOUR NEIGHBOR DO IT, YOU CAN DO THAT. BUT ONCE YOU'RE ADVERTISING ON FACEBOOK MARKETPLACE OR SOME SERVICE PLATFORM THAT YOU'RE DOING THAT, YOU CAN NO LONGER DO THAT OUT OF YOUR GARAGE. IT BECOMES A COMMERCIAL USE. AND SO WHEN DOES SLEEPING BECOME A COMMERCIAL USE IS THE QUESTION THAT I THINK WE HAVE TO ASK. WHEN DOES STAYING SOMEWHERE BECOME A COMMERCIAL USE? AND I THINK THAT IS WHEN YOU'RE PAYING TAXES ON IT AND YOU'RE ADVERTISING TO THE PUBLIC. AND I DON'T THINK THAT BELONGS IN OUR NEIGHBORHOODS. AND SO, AGAIN, I DON'T THINK ANY OF THESE THINGS ARE THE RIGHT QUESTION TO ASK. I THINK WE SHOULD STICK TO THE ORDINANCE THAT WE HAVE. I MEAN, UNLESS I'M GOING TO HAVE MORE COMMENTS. I'LL WRAP THEM ALL UP BUT I HAVE MORE. >> Chair Downs: OKAY. HERE'S WHERE I WANT TO GO WITH THIS. THIS IS WHAT WE'RE FOCUSED ON. IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE WANTING TO SAY WE SHOULD RETHINK WHETHER THE CONTRACTOR WHO MOWS YARDS AND OPERATES OUT OF HIS HOUSE AND STORES HIS EQUIPMENT THERE, THAT SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED EITHER. THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE EQUATING IT TO. AND I WANT US TO JUST FOCUS ON THIS. BECAUSE WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO DO IS TAKE US SOMEWHERE ELSE AND THIS IS WHAT WE'VE GOT TO DO TONIGHT. >> Lisle: WELL, TO THE DEGREE THAT I'M OFF TOPIC, I APOLOGIZE TO YOU AS THE CHAIR. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT I AM OFF TOPIC THOUGH. I BELIEVE THAT I AM AT THE HEART OF THE MATTER THAT WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN ON ALL ALONG. SO AS FAR AS THESE QUESTIONS GO, I CAN'T -- THIS SEEMS EXTREMELY COMPLICATED. IT SEEMS VERY DIFFICULT TO IMPLEMENT OR ENFORCE. IT'S GRANDFATHERING SOMETHING THAT WAS NEVER LEGAL, IN MY OPINION. THIS IS JUST MY OPINION. AND SO I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU REGULATE ALL THESE DIFFERENT HOW MANY NUMBER OF BEDROOMS SOMEBODY HAS. THEY'VE GOT ONE. YOU JUST GRANDFATHERED EVERY -- YOU JUST GAVE EVERY HOME IN THE CITY OF PLANO THE ABILITY TO BE A SHORT-TERM RENTAL. I THINK THAT'S ERROR. I AM ALL FOR SMALL BUSINESS. I AM ALL FOR FREEDOM. I AM ALL FOR COMING FROM OTHER COUNTRIES AND RUNNING SMALL BUSINESSES HERE. YOU CAN SHAKE YOUR HEAD. I SPOKE TO YOU OUTSIDE. YOU CALLED ME OUT AT THE PODIUM. I RESPECT EVERYBODY THAT CAME HERE TONIGHT AND IT'S PERSONAL TO ME. I HAVE SAT THERE IN THOSE SEATS AND THERE'S BEEN TIMES THAT I WANTED TO BE DOWN HERE AND THERE'S OTHER TIMES THAT I HAVE BEEN IN YOUR SEATS THAT I HAVEN'T WANTED TO BE DOWN HERE. IF TONIGHT WAS ON THAT CHART, IT'S A NIGHT I WOULDN'T WANT TO BE HERE. I CAN'T MAKE EVERYBODY HAPPY AND SO I HAVE TO LOOK AT THE ORBS AND THE WAY IT'S WRITTEN AND THAT'S WHAT I HAVE DONE WHOLEHEARTEDLY AND I HAVE LISTENED TO BOTH SIDES AND I BELIEVE THAT RESIDENTIAL AREAS ARE MEANT FOR LIVING THERE, FOR LIVING THERE LONG TERM. NOW, YOU CAN RENT AND LIVE THERE LONG TERM. YOU KNOW, THERE'S THINGS THAT I'VE HEARD THAT REALLY PULL AT MY HEART STRINGS. THE MEDICAL SITUATION. A LOT OF THOSE ARE NOT SHORT-TERM RENTALS. THOSE AREN'T EVEN PART OF THIS. AND SO I WOULD LOVE TO SEE PEOPLE THAT HAVE RENTAL PROPERTIES HAVE SPECIFIC RELATIONSHIPS WITH HOSPITALS THAT ARE PROVIDING THIS SORT OF CARE. YOU DON'T NEED TO BE ON AN AIRBNB PLATFORM. IF THAT'S YOUR HEART THERE'S ANOTHER WAY TO COME ABOUT THOSE FOLKS. FOR ME, OR ORDINANCE MAKES IT CLEAR THAT HOTELS AND MOTELS, WHEN YOU'RE PAYING COMMERCIAL TAXES, THAT'S A COMMERCIAL USE. I THINK WE STAND ON OUR ORDINANCE. THANK YOU FOR THE TIME. >> Chair Downs: I STILL WOULD LIKE TO KNOW DO YOU THINK THE PROPOSAL MEETS THE SPIRIT AND INTENT OF THE LAND USE ZONING RECOMMENDATIONS? >> Lisle: NO, CHAIRMAN, I DO NOT. >> Chair Downs: YOU DO NOT. THANK YOU. MR. OLLEY. >> Olley: AGAIN, THANK YOU TO THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT. I DON'T ENVY YOU. I'LL JUST PUT IT THAT WAY. DOES THE PROPOSAL MEET THE SPIRIT AND INTENT OF THE LAND USE AND ZONING REGULATIONS? I THINK IT DOES. OBVIOUSLY THERE'S TERM DEFINITIONS AND LEGALESE AND WHAT HAVE YOU TO MAKE SURE THAT, A, WE'RE IN COMPLIANCE WITH STATE LAW. B, WE ARE IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE SUPREME COURT LAW ON PROPERTY RIGHTS AND WHAT HAVE YOU. AND I'LL LEAVE THAT TO PEOPLE WHO WENT TO SCHOOL FOR THAT TO FIGURE OUT. FOR QUESTION NUMBER TWO, WHAT TIME PERIOD PER YEAR IS APPROPRIATE FOR SHORT-TERM RENTAL SEASONAL. I WOULD PROBABLY BE ON THE SIDE TO SCRUB THE SEASONAL DEFINITION. IT'S JUST TOO SQUIRRELY AND QUITE FRANKLY DOESN'T DO WHAT I THINK YOU GUYS ARE TRYING TO ACHIEVE WITH THE DEFINITION. THE MINIMUM NIGHT STAY FOR THE SHORT-TERM RENTAL -- AGAIN, IF I'M SCRUBBING THE SEASONAL THEN PERHAPS THAT QUESTION IS MOOT. BUT, AGAIN, FROM AN APPLICABILITY PERSPECTIVE AND NOT THROWING OUT ORDINANCES OR REGULATIONS THAT MIGHT BE TRICKY TO NAVIGATE, MAXIMUM THRESHOLD AS TO WHAT DEFINES A SHORT-TERM RENTAL, I THINK IN THIS CASE IT'S SUFFICIENT, RIGHT? YOU CAN RENT UP TO AND PAST 30. FIVE, TWO TO 29, THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM. THE DEFINITION THAT BOXES YOU INTO WHAT IS THIS THORNY ISSUE IS YOU CANNOT GO PAST 30. I THINK THE MAXIMUM IS APPROPRIATE. I DO NOT BELIEVE THERE'S A NEED FOR A MINIMUM. DOES THE PROPOSAL MISS ANY OF THE GOALS OF THE SHORT-TERM RENTAL STUDY? IF I HAVE TO VOICE OUT THE GOALS OF THE STUDY WERE TO BRING FORWARD TO THE CITY COUNCIL AND THIS COMMISSION, IDEAS PROPOSALS ORDINANCES THAT WE CAN PUT TOGETHER THAT SATISFY TO SOME DEGREE THE MAJORITY OF THE STAKEHOLDERS OF THIS COMMUNITY, SHORT-TERM RENTAL AND NON-SHORT-TERM RENTAL OWNERS, YES, THE PROPOSAL DOES THAT. THE PROPOSAL IS ALSO SUPPOSED TO GIVE CITY COUNCIL MEAT TO CHEW ON AS THEY DETERMINE WHAT IS PROBABLY GOING TO BE THE BIGGEST PART OF THIS, WHICH IS THE REGISTRATION ORDINANCE. AND, YES, THIS PROPOSAL DOES THAT. BARRING -- WELL, WITH A CAVEAT THAT WE CLEAN UP THE DEFINITIONS AND TERMS, THE B&B VERSUS VACATION VERSUS WHAT HAVE YOU, PERFECT? NO. GOOD? >> Chair Downs: QUESTION FOR STAFF. WHEN ARE YOU BRINGING THIS BACK TO US. THE FIRST PUBLIC HEARING IS APRIL 1st? >> THAT'S CORRECT. >> Chair Downs: SO I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE DIFFICULT FOR US TO COME TO AN AGREEMENT ON THE TERMS BETWEEN NOW AND APRIL 1st BECAUSE WE'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE A MEETING TO DIGEST WHAT THEY MIGHT RECOMMEND. SO I THINK ON APRIL 1st IF YOU'VE GOT OTHER TERMS YOU WANT TO THROW OUT THERE, GREAT. IF WE HAVE TO USE THESE SHORT TERM BECAUSE THERE'S NO CONSENSUS, MAYBE WE CAN FIGURE SOMETHING OUT THAT NIGHT. BUT I DON'T WANT US TO GET HUNG UP ON APRIL 1st BECAUSE THE TERMS HAVEN'T CHANGED BECAUSE WE WON'T HAVE A CHANCE TO RECOMMEND. ANYWAY, BUT I THINK YOU'VE GOT THE MESSAGE CLEAR FROM ALMOST ALL OF US THAT THE TERMS CREATE CHALLENGES. NOT ONLY FOR US BUT FOR EVERYONE OUT HERE, I THINK. SO LET'S GO AHEAD AND FOLLOW MR. OLLEY AND RUN RIGHT THROUGH. >> Bronsky: EXCELLENT. I LIVE IN TEXAS BECAUSE I BELIEVE VERY STRONGLY THAT WE ARE A STATE THAT HOLDS TIGHT TO OUR PROPERTY RIGHTS. AND WHERE DOES PROPERTY RIGHTS AND NEIGHBORHOOD CONCERNS INTERSECT? I THINK RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF A LOT OF THIS. AND SO AS I LISTENED TO EVERYTHING AND AS I DIGESTED EVERYTHING, WHEN I THINK ABOUT DOES THIS MEET THE SPIRIT AND TE INTENT OF WHAT I READ FROM THE SHORT-TERM TASK FORCE, I'M NOT 100% CERTAIN THAT IT DOES. AND WHAT I KEPT HEARING FROM THE SIDE THAT ALREADY HAS THINGS IS THAT THERE ARE CERTAIN PLACES THAT SHORT-TERM RENTALS BELONG AND THERE ARE CERTAIN PLACES THAT THEY DON'T. WHAT I HEAR FROM THE OTHER SIDE IS THERE ARE PLACES THAT THEY MIGHT BELONG AND THERE ARE PLACES THAT THEY DON'T. AND I UNDERSTAND THAT HOAs HAVE THE ABILITY TO CUT THOSE OUT. I LIVE IN A NEIGHBORHOOD THAT DOESN'T HAVE AN HOA SO I HAVE CONCERNS AS IT RELATES TO THIS. THE IMPACT THAT A COMMUNITY IN PLANO THAT DOES HAVE IT HAS ABOVE MY COMMUNITY THAT DOESN'T HAVE IT. SO I DON'T KNOW THAT WE'VE MET THAT. WHEN I LOOK AT THE MAP, I DON'T SEE A LIMITATION BUT I SEE AN EXPANSION. AND THAT KIND OF BRINGS ME SOME CONCERN. I DO THINK THERE ARE PLACES THAT IT FIT, THAT IT DOES FIT AND THAT IT DOES BELONG. BUT DO I THINK THAT EVERY HOUSEHOLD THAT DOESN'T HAVE AN HOA THAT CAN BAN IT SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO HAVE AN STR DOWN THE ENTIRE STREET? I DON'T AND I DON'T THINK THAT WAS THE INTENTION OF THE TASK FORCE STUDY. ADDITIONALLY, MY OTHER CONCERN ABOUT HOW APARTMENTS ARE BEING TREATED APPROPRIATELY AND FAIRLY AND THE -- I THINK MR. CARY HIT A HOME RUN WHEN HE TALKED ABOUT A DENSITY FILTER. I DON'T THINK THAT PEOPLE THINK ABOUT BEDROOMS HAVING FOUR BEDS. WHEN IT COMES TO THE SECOND AND THIRD, I THINK I AGREE WITH MR. OLLEY AND MR. CARY. I'M NOT SURE THE TERMINOLOGY BELONGS THERE AT ALL. I WOULD DO AWAY WITH IT, IF IT WERE ME. IF IT DID HAVE TO STAY, I THINK MR. CARY HAS A GREAT SELECTION. 30-PLUS DAYS AND LESS THAN 90 DAYS. LASTLY, DOES IT MISS ANY OF THE GOALS? AGAIN, I DO THINK IT DOESN'T HIT ALL OF THE GOALS THAT WERE INTENDED. I'M HAVING -- YEAH. I DON'T THINK IT HITS ALL THE GOALS THAT IT WAS INTENDED. THAT'S WHERE I'M AT. >> Chair Downs: DO YOU HAVE ANY SPECIFIC GOALS THAT WERE MISSED. >> Bronsky: I THINK THE LIMITATION EFFECT THAT THE SHORT-TERM RENTAL TASK FORCE TALKS ABOUT LIMITING THE NUMBER ACROSS EVERYWHERE AND THAT THERE WERE PLACES IT BELONGED AND DIDN'T. AND I THINK THAT WE'VE, AS OPPOSED TO LIMITING IT, IN SOME AREAS WE'VE EXPANDED IT, ESPECIALLY THOSE THAT DON'T HAVE HOAs. >> Chair Downs: I THINK THAT'S A VALID POINT. >> COULD I ASK A QUICK QUESTION OR MAKE A CLARIFICATION THAT IF LIMIT OR SEASONAL REQUIRED A MINIMUM NIGHT STAY OF 30 NIGHTS, THEN IT WOULD NO LONGER BE A SHORT-TERM RENTAL, IT WOULD BE A LONG-TERM RENTAL. LIKE THE NUMBER OF DAYS PER YEAR ANNUALLY WOULD BE A MOOT POINT. >> Bronsky: THAT'S WHY I'D STRIKE IT. >> Ratliff: I WILL CONCUR WITH THE 30 DAYS ON SEASONAL. I HAVE AN ISSUE WITH THE SEASONAL AND I THINK THAT ADDRESSES ALL OF THAT SO I'LL LET MY LITANY OF ISSUES I'VE SPOKEN AT THIS POINT. WHAT I DO BELIEVE THE PROPOSAL MEETS THE SPIRIT OF INTENT IS IN THE LIVE-IN MANAGEMENT STRs AND THE REGULATIONS THERE, I DO HAVE SOME CONCERNS ABOUT BEDROOMS VERSUS BEDS. AND I THINK WE NEED TO CLARIFY THAT BECAUSE I THINK THERE ARE SOME STRs, PRIMARILY THE VACATION ONES, I THINK, THAT OVER ADVERTISE THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE IT CAN SLEEP VERSUS THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT WOULD STAY THERE IF IT'S A FAMILY HOME. IF I'VE GOT FOUR BEDROOMS I'VE GOT NO MORE THAN FOUR TO SIX KIDS IN THOSE BEDROOMS. I'M NOT GOING TO HAVE 20. I THINK WE NEED TO CLARIFY THAT A LITTLE BIT. BUT FOR THE LIVE-IN MANAGEMENT, SPECIFICALLY THE ONE BEDROOM, IF THAT WAS A ZERO TO FOUR GUESTS, I WOULD BE OKAY WITH THAT. I THINK THAT DOES PRESERVE THE FABRIC OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD WHEN YOU HAVE PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN THAT HOME, KNOW THEIR NEIGHBORS, WATCH THEIR NEIGHBOR'S DOG, THEY'RE YOUR NEIGHBORS. THEY JUST HAVE GUESTS. MY NEIGHBORS DON'T KNOW MY KIDS. THEY'RE FULL-GROWN ADULTS. MY NEIGHBORS DON'T KNOW MY KIDS. IF YOU DON'T KNOW THEM, YOU MIGHT THINK I WAS RENTING MY HOUSE OUT BECAUSE THERE WERE A BUNCH OF THEM IN AND OUT OF MY HOUSE SEVERAL WEEKS BUT I'M STILL PART OF THE FABRIC OF MY NEIGHBORHOOD BECAUSE MY NEIGHBORS NOW KNOW MY KIDS BECAUSE I INTRODUCED THEM TO THEM. BUT SO I THINK THE LIVE-IN MANAGEMENT IS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SITUATION THAN A VACATION HOME TO ME. BECAUSE THEY ARE PART OF THE FABRIC OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. AND THEY'RE NO DIFFERENT THAN A HOME-BASED BUSINESS. I RUN MY BUSINESS OUT OF MY HOME. I HAVE CLIENTS -- NOT CLIENTS, I HAVE VENDORS COME TO MY HOUSE PERIODICALLY. NO DIFFERENT THAN SOMEONE WHO MIGHT BE RENTING A ROOM COMING SO I THINK WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE ON-SITE MANAGEMENT STRs MUCH MORE LIKE A HOME-BASED BUSINESS THAN THE VACATION RENTALS. AND I BELIEVE ALL THE DATA I'VE SEEN AND THE QUESTIONS I ASKED YOU THAT IT'S THE NON-ON-SITE MANAGEMENT STRs THAT HAVE A ONE-NIGHT OPPORTUNITY THAT ARE THE PROBLEM AND THAT'S WHERE OUR DOZEN OR MORE PROBLEM ISSUES ARE. AND THAT'S WHY I THINK THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT WE NEED TO FOCUS OUR EFFORTS ON AND THOSE I DO BELIEVE OUGHT TO HAVE A MINIMUM STAY. AND I WOULD EVEN ADVOCATE THAT MAYBE TWO DAYS ISN'T ENOUGH. MAYBE IT OUGHT TO BE FIVE. BUT I DON'T BELIEVE WE OUGHT TO HAVE A MINIMUM STAY IN THE ON-SITE MANAGED STRs. I THINK IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO STAY AT MY HOUSE FOR ONE NIGHT GREAT. STAY AT MY HOUSE. I'M THERE. AND THEN I DO APPRECIATE THE WAY THAT YOU DID HAVE SPECIAL TREATMENT FOR THE HERITAGE PROPERTIES AND THE COTTAGES. I HAVE BOTH ON THE SAME PROPERTY AND THEY'RE FAIR. WHAT YOU'VE DONE IS A FAIR WAY TO HANDLE HERITAGE PROPERTIES, ESPECIALLY THE ONES THAT HAVE COTTAGES BECAUSE WE DO HAVE A DIFFERENT SITUATION IN THE HERITAGE DISTRICT. AND SO I DO BELIEVE THAT WE MET THE SPIRIT AND INTENT OF THE LAND USE AND ZONING AND THE TASK FORCE IN DEALING WITH THE HERITAGE DISTRICT. I THINK THAT WAS VERY WELL DONE. THE TWO PLACES I THINK YOU MISSED IN ADDITION TO THE BEDS VERSUS BEDROOMS IS ONE. THE OTHER IS HOW WE HANDLE THE SHORT-TERM RENTALS THAT ARE IN OUR APARTMENT COMPLEXES TODAY. BECAUSE I KNOW MORE AND MORE APARTMENT COMPLEXES -- I BROUGHT THIS UP IN A PREVIOUS MEETING -- HAVE GUEST SUITES WHERE A FAMILY MEMBER COMES INTO TOWN THEY CAN RENT ONE OF THE APARTMENTS FOR A WEEKEND OR WEEK AND THEY MOVE ON. THAT'S BECOMING A REGULAR FEATURE IN APARTMENT COMPLEXES NOW. AND I THINK WE'VE GOT TO ADDRESS THAT SOMEHOW AND HAVE A PERCENTAGE THEY CAN DO THAT IN OR SOMETHING. AND SO I THINK WE HAVE MISSED ON THAT. SO I THINK WE NEED TO SHORE UP THAT COMPONENT OF HOW A LOT OF OUR APARTMENT OPERATORS ARE USING A SMALL NUMBER OF THEIR UNITS. OTHER THAN THAT, HOMERUN. I'LL GIVE YOU A TRIPLE. STAND-UP TRIPLE. SO THANK YOU. >> Chair Downs: THANK YOU. I WAS GOING TO START ON THAT END AND WORK THIS WAY. GO WITH YOU. >> Cary: I JUST THINK THERE'S BEEN SOME GREAT COMMENTS MADE HERE AND I WANT TO CALL THEM OUT BECAUSE I'M IN CONCERT WITH THEM. COMMISSIONER OLLEY TALKING ABOUT THE SPIRIT OF THIS AND THE GOAL ULTIMATELY IS FOR ALL OF US TO DELIVER SOMETHING FOR COUNCIL TO SORT THROUGH AND MAKE A DECISION ON. AND SO ULTIMATELY THAT IS WHAT OUR CHARTER IS HERE AS IT IS FOR EVERYONE ELSE. YOU KNOW, IN THAT RESPECT I THINK WE'RE MOVING THAT WAY. I ALSO DON'T THINK THAT WE'RE ALL THE WAY THERE AND SO AS I GO DOWN THROUGH THESE THINGS, AGAIN, WHOEVER SAID IT, I'M AGAINST THE SEASONAL RENTER THING AND IF WE MOVE IT TO 30 DAYS AS A MINIMUM THEN WE'VE ELIMINATED THAT. IT'S NO LONGER A SHORT-TERM RENTAL. THAT'S GONE. I WILL REPEAT I'M FOR SOME KIND OF DENSITY FILTER, WHETHER IT'S APARTMENTS OR WHATEVER, I'M FOR THAT. I'M FOR WHERE WE DO ALLOW SHORT-TERM RENTALS. IFWE CAN HAVE SOME KIND OF LIVE-IN ELEMENT. I THINK THAT'S HELPFUL, ESPECIALLY WITH WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE COMMERCIAL INVESTMENTS BEING MADE THAT ARE SUCKING UP A LOT OF INVENTORY AND MAKING IT A COMMERCIAL ENTERPRISE AS OPPOSED TO A NEIGHBORHOOD. AND SO WE LOSE OUR COMMUNITY FABRIC. WE LOSE SOME OF THOSE THINGS AND I THINK THAT'S UNDENIABLE WHEN WE HAVE SOMEBODY, LIKE COMMISSIONER RATLIFF ON SITE, IT'S A DIFFERENT THING. AND SO I THINK THAT WHERE WE MISSED THE GOALS IS WHOEVER SAID IT OVER HERE. BUT WITH THE ONE BEDROOM, IT OPENS IT UP TO AN ENTIRE CITY. I DON'T THINK THAT WAS ANYBODY'S GOAL. I WOULD HOPE NOT. WHERE EVERY SINGLE RESIDENCE IN THIS CITY COULD BE A SHORT-TERM RENTAL. I DON'T THINK THAT WOULD BE ANYBODY'S GOAL. SO I THINK WE WHIFFED ON THAT. DIRECTIONALLY WE'RE GOING TO RIGHT WAY AND THERE'S COMPELLING ARGUMENTS ON BOTH SIDES OF THIS AND I SEE US HEADING THE RIGHT WAY BUT I DO THINK THERE'S SOME REALLY IMPORTANT THINGS TO GET DONE. AND THE DEVIL IS IN THE DETAIL OF ALL THIS STUFF AND SO I THINK THAT'S KIND OF WHERE WE'RE AT. SO THANKS. >> Chair Downs: THANK YOU. >> Tong: THANK YOU. AND FIRST OF ALL, I REALLY WANT TO THANK YOU FOR STANDING THERE FOR SO LONG. [LAUGHTER] I REALLY DON'T THINK, AT LEAST WHEN I'M TALKING, YOU DON'T HAVE TO STAND THERE. IF YOU WANT TO WALK BACK TO YOUR SEAT, YOU'RE WELCOME TO DO SO. THIS IS NOT ADDRESSING TO YOU, THIS IS JUST ANSWERING YOUR QUESTIONS TO THE WHOLE, KIND OF THE WHOLE PROPOSAL. BEFORE I ANSWER THE FIRST QUESTION ABOUT DOES THE PROPOSAL MEET BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, I WANT TO KIND OF REFRESH MY MEMORY ABOUT WHAT THE PROPOSAL IS. IN MY MIND THE PROPOSAL IS FIRST OF ALL CLASSIFYING ALL THE RENTALS INTO THREE CATEGORIES. B&B ONE, B ANDB TWO TO FIVE AND VACATION. WE'LL DEAL WITH THE TERMS LATER. WE'LL JUST CALL THEM NOW. AND I GUESS B&B ONE IS ALLOWED. AND B&B TWO AND FOUR NEEDS SUP. AND THE -- SORRY. THE VACATION RENTAL IS NOT ALLOWED UNLESS WE PASS THIS 30, 60, 90-DAY SEASONAL PERIOD. IS THAT CORRECT? >> IN BOTH RESIDENTIAL ZONING DISTRICTS, THAT IS CORRECT. THERE ARE TWO EXCEPTIONS UNDER THE PROPOSAL. >> Tong: CORRECT. SO I DIDN'T MENTION ABOUT THE HOTEL ZONE OR ANYTHING, COMMERCIAL ZONE THAT IT'S NOT THE MAIN CONCERN HERE. I THINK EVERYBODY WOULD AGREE THAT WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT THE RESIDENTIAL AREAS, THE NEIGHBORHOOD RIGHT? SO BASED ON THAT, I THINK YES, PROBABLY 50%. I AGREE THAT IT DOES MEET THE INTENT OF THE LAND USE AND ZONING RECOMMENDATIONS PROVIDED BY THE TASK FORCE. THE OTHER 50% I'M KIND OF RESERVING A LITTLE BIT OBSERVATION ON THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN B&B ONE AND B&B TWO THROUGH FIVE. PERSONALLY, I REALLY DON'T THINK THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN B&B ONE AND B&B TWO THROUGH FIVE. TO ME THEY SHOULD BE TREATED THE SAME WAY. EITHER ALL SUP OR ALL AS THE SAME AS A VACATION RENTAL. HAVING ONE ROOM VERSUS TWO TO FIVE ROOMS IS REALLY NOT THAT MUCH DIFFERENCE, PERSONAL OPINION. AND SO ON THAT PART I THINK THAT'S BECAUSE IT'S PART OF THE PROPOSAL, THAT'S THE PART I DON'T AGREE. BUT I DO THINK YOU HAVE TRIED TO MAKE IT MEET THE EXPECTATION OF THE SPIRIT AND THE INTENT OF THE RENTAL TASK FORCE, SO THAT WAS A GOOD JOB. THANK YOU. THE SECOND QUESTION IS PERSONALLY I DON'T THINK IT REALLY MATTERS. IF WE WERE GOING TO ALLOW SHORT-TERM RENTAL, I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD SET A LIMIT ON 30 DAYS, 60, OR 90 DAYS. THAT TOTALLY NEGATES THE PURPOSE OF HAVING A SHORT-TERM RENTAL. I DON'T THINK EITHER SIDE IS IN FAVOR OF HAVING THIS LIMIT. EITHER WE WON'T ALLOW SHORT-TERM RENTAL OR WE WILL ALLOW. HAVING THAT SEASONAL IS MEANINGLESS, IN MY OPINION. SO I'M NOT GOING TO SAY ANYTHING TO THAT. THIRD, THIRD, I DON'T THINK THERE SHOULD BE A MINIMUM. PERSONALLY, WE HAVE USED THE AIRBNB SO MANY TIMES BECAUSE WE HAVE A LARGE FAMILY. YOU KNOW. ME AND MY HUSBAND, WE HAVE FIVE KIDS. EVERY TIME WE GO TO VISIT OUR FAMILY IN CHICAGO WE HAVE TO RENT AN AIRBNB. MAYBE JUST FOR ONE NIGHT BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT TO RENT SIX DIFFERENT BEDROOMS OR FIVE DIFFERENT BEDROOMS, HOTEL ROOMS BECAUSE WE HAVE ADULT KIDS. TO US, I THINK WE -- THERE'S DEFINITELY A LOT OF USES FOR A FULL FAMILY. A VERY QUALITY, GOOD RESIDENTS AND TENANTS WILL RENT AN AIRBNB HOME FOR ONE NIGHT. SO I DON'T THINK LIMITING IT TO TWO NIGHTS MINIMUM IS FAIR OR WILL ACTUALLY ELIMINATE THE PROBLEM THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO ELIMINATE. THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO RENT FOR TWO NIGHTS. YOU STILL HAVE ONE NIGHT FOR PARTYING. HAVING THE CALL SERVICE RESTRICTIONS OR IF, YOU KNOW, SOME IRRESPONSIBLE HOST HAVE MAYBE, FOR EXAMPLE, MORE THAN THREE SERVICE CALLS, THEN THEIR REGISTRATION WILL BE REVOKED, FOR EXAMPLE. MAYBE WE'LL DO SOME FORCE ON -- ENFORCEMENT ON THAT. OR MAYBE HAVING A PARKING. I DON'T SEE WHY -- YOU MENTIONED THAT THAT'S A MULTI-DEPARTMENT EFFORT. BUT I THINK YOU'RE OVERTHINKING. I MEAN, AS A REAL ESTATE PROFESSIONAL, FOR OUR LEASES, EVERY LEASE HAS A RESTRICTION ON PARKING. IF WE SIGN A LEASE IT DOESN'T MATTER IF IT'S SIX MONTHS, OR A YEAR OR TWO YEARS. WE HAVE THE LINE SAYS NO MORE THAN THREE PARKING. WE ONLY ALLOW THREE PARKING, THREE VEHICLES PARKED THERE OR TWO VEHICLES PARKED THERE FOR EVERY RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY. WE HAVE A NUMBER OF VEHICLES ALLOWED TO PARK THERE. I THINK WE CAN DO THAT BY LAND USE. SO -- SORRY. I WAS JUST SAYING THAT I THINK THAT WAS WHERE YOU WERE COMING FROM, WHY YOU WERE LIMITING THE MINIMUM ALLOWED NIGHTS TO TWO NIGHTS. I JUST DON'T THINK WE NEED A MINIMUM THERE. NUMBER 4, I AGREE WITH A LOT OF OUR COLLEAGUES REGARDING THE DENSITY. AND WE PROBABLY WANT TO HAVE A DENSITY CONTROL OVERRULE. AND ALSO, THE BED VERSUS BEDROOMS, AND THE APARTMENT BUILDING ISSUES. I THINK THE ONLY THING I WOULD ADD TO IT IS JUST THE PARKING THING. I FEEL STRONG WITH HAVING A PARKING LIMIT WILL ELIMINATE A LOT OF THE PARTY ISSUES. I THINK. THAT'S ALL. THANK YOU. >> Chair Downs: ALL RIGHT. MR. BROUNOFF, IT'S 10:30. >> I HAVE 90 SECONDS, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? [ LAUGHING ] >> Brounoff: LET ME SAY THAT I APPRECIATE ALL THE WORK THAT STAFF HAS PUT IN ON THIS PROJECT. I KNOW IT'S BEEN A MAJOR PROJECT FOR THEM. AND THEY DO IT IN ORDER TO SERVE THE PEOPLE OF THIS CITY AND I APPRECIATE ALL THEIR EFFORTS. I THINK THAT THE GOALS OF THE SHORT-TERM RENTAL STUDY AND THE SPIRIT AND INTENT OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT CAME OUT OF THAT STUDY RECOGNIZED TWO DIFFERENT SETS OF INTERESTS. ON THE ONE HAND -- AND THOSE TWO SETS ARE REPRESENTATIVED BY THE TWO GROUPS OF PEOPLE HERE TONIGHT. ON THE ONE HAND YOU HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE ADVOCATING THE PROTECTION OF THE INTEGRITY OF NEIGHBORHOODS. ON THE OTHER HAND, YOU HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE ADVOCATING THE RIGHT TO OWN AND USE THEIR PROPERTY FOR THEIR OWN PURPOSES IN A RESPONSIBLE MANNER. I THINK BOTH OF THOSE ARE LEGITIMATE INTERESTS. I THINK IT WOULD BE WRONG FOR US TO UPHOLD ONE OF THOSE INTERESTS AND DENY THE OTHER. I ALSO THINK IT WOULD BE WRONG OF US TO INDULGE IN STEREOTYPING. STEREOTYPING IS WHEN YOU PAINT ALL INDIVIDUALS WHO HAPPEN TO BELONG TO A GROUP WITH THE SAME BRUSH AND ASSUME THAT THEY ALL HAVE THE SAME CHARACTERISTICS AND THE SAME QUALITIES. STEREOTYPING IS TOO OFTEN USED IN ORDER TO IMPUTE NEGATIVE CHARACTERISTICS TO A WHOLE GROUP OF PEOPLE, WHICH ACTUALLY DON'T APPLY. I AM UNWILLING TO ASSUME THAT JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE IS A SHORT-TERM TENANT THAT PERSON IS UNDESIRABLE. YES, I RECOGNIZE THAT PEOPLE ARE INDIVIDUALS. SOME SHORT-TERM TENANTS HAVE DONE UNDESIRABLE THINGS THAT HAVE DISRUPTED NEIGHBORHOODS. OTHERS HAVE BEEN TOTALLY RESPONSIBLE. THE SAME GOES FOR SHORT-TERM RENTAL OPERATORS. A FEW HAVE BEEN IRRESPONSIBLE. MANY HAVE BEEN TOTALLY RESPONIBLE. I REFUSE TO PAINT THEM ALL WITH THE SAME BRUSH. AND I THINK WE SHOULD REFRAIN FROM THAT KIND OF STEREOTYPING. SO, THE APPROACH THAT I THINK THAT THE SHORT-TERM RENTAL STUDY TOOK AND THAT THE RECOMMENDATIONS TAKE IS ONE OF BALANCE THAT RECOGNIZES THE LEGITIMACY OF BOTH INTERESTS AND TRIES TO FIND A FORMULA WHERE THEY CAN COEXIST. IN THAT SPIRIT, I THINK THAT THE STRONGEST PROTECTION FOR THE PRESERVATION OF NEIGHBORHOOD INTEGRITY IS THE RESIDENT MANAGER. THE SECOND STRONGEST IS THE SPECIFIC USE PERMIT. HOWEVER, THE PROPOSAL BEFORE US WOULD REQUIRE THE SPECIFIC USE PERMIT ONLY FOR PEOPLE RENTING TWO TO FIVE BEDROOMS. NOT ONE BEDROOM. I THINK THERE IS LEGITIMATE REASON FOR THAT. I THINK COMING TO THE CITY AND APPLYING FOR A SPECIFIC USE EXPERIMENPERMIT IS APPLYING FORG CHANGE. THAT CAN BE EXPENSIVE. THAT IS MORE THAN WE CAN LEGITIMATELY ASK A HOMEOWNER WHO RENTS OUT ONE ROOM TO UNDERTAKE. IT'S JUST TOO GREAT A BURDEN TO REASONABLY ASK OF SOMEBODY. THE PROPERTIES THAT RENT TWO TO FIVE ROOMS GENERATE A GREATER AMOUNT OF INCOME. THEY HAVE POTENTIALLY A GREATER IMPACT ON THE COMMUNITY BECAUSE OF THE GREATER NUMBER OF TENANTS, AND IT IS MORE REASONABLE TO REQUIRE A SPECIFIC USE PERMIT OF THEM THAN OF THE ONE BEDROOM HOMEOWNER. I WOULD ADVOCATE DOING AWAY WITH THE LIMITED SEASONAL RENTAL BECAUSE IT DOESN'T HAVE THOSE TWO PROTECTIONS. I DON'T WANT THAT TO BECOME A VEHICLE WHEREBY SOMEONE RENTS A HOUSE FOR 29 DAYS AND IT TURNS INTO A PARTY HOUSE BECAUSE THE OWNER IS OFF ON VACATION SOMEWHERE. I THINK THE NEED TO BALANCE THE TWO INTERESTS ARE ADEQUATELY SERVED WITH THREE CATEGORIES WITHOUT HAVING A FOURTH CATEGORY OF THE TEMPORARY LIMITED SEASONAL RENTAL. I AGREE WE CAN CLEAN UP THE TERMINOLOGY. I AGREE WE NEED TO LOOK AT THE NUMBER OF BEDS IN ADDITION TO THE NUMBER OF ROOMS. I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO DEFINE TWO TO FIVE, IT CAN BE TWO CONTRACTS, I DON'T CARE. IT'S THE NUMBER OF ROOMS AND THE NUMBER OF BEDS. SO, WITH THAT I THINK THIS PROPOSAL GENERALLY MEETS THE GOALS OF THE SHORT-TERM RENTAL STUDY AND IS GENERALLY WITHIN THE SPIRIT AND INTENT OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS. >> Chair Downs: OKAY. I'M THE ONLY ONE LEFT. AND I'VE GOT 11:30, SO 54 MINUTES. [ LAUGHING ] >> Chair Downs: THERE WAS AN OVER/UNDER ON HOW LONG WE'D GO TONIGHT. WE DO STILL HAVE SILVER LINE. I'VE GOT FIVE SECONDS. [ LAUGHING ] >> Chair Downs: CAN YOU GO TO PAGE 106 IN THE PRESENTATION? >> I DON'T HAVE PAGE NUMBERS HERE. >> Chair Downs: SORRY. IT'S THE CHART THAT STARTS AT THE TOP. CAN I RENT MY -- ATTACHMENT C, SORRY. >> I DON'T HAVE THAT IN THE SAME FORM. >> Chair Downs: WELL, LET'S GO WITH THIS RIGHT HERE. SO, I'M JUST POINTING THIS OUT BECAUSE I THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED AND THEN I'LL GET INTO MY THOUGHTS. BED AND BREAKFAST ONE-ROOM, COTTAGE IN THE BACK, YOU HAVE THE OWNER ON-SITE AND YOU HAVE THE ENTIRE HOUSE RENTED OUT. COULD BE EIGHT BEDROOMS. IT'S CONSIDERED A BED AND BREAKFAST ONE ROOM. THAT SEEMS INCONGRUOUS WITH THE IDEA THAT ANOTHER HOUSE WITH FIVE BEDROOMS IS SOMEHOW A TWO TO FIVE BED AND BREAKFAST. WE NEED TO LOOK AT THAT. NOW, GOING BACK TO THE FOUR ITEMS, ONE, YES, I BELIEVE WHAT YOU HAVE PRESENTED IS IN THE SPIRIT OF WHAT THE TASK FORCE WAS CONSIDERING IN TERMS OF LAND USE AND ZONING. THEY DID A VERY EFFECTIVE JOB. YOU GUYS HAVE DONE A GOOD JOB TRYING TO PORTRAY THAT. IS IT PERFECT? NO. WE CAN'T GET PERFECT HERE. WE'RE NOT GOING TO. OUR JOB IS TO GET SOMETHING CLOSE SO COUNCIL CAN DO WHAT THEY NEED TO DO WITH IT. I TEND TO AGREE WITH THE LIMITED SEASONAL. I THINK IT COMPLICATES THINGS. AND IS IT POSSIBLE THAT THERE WILL BE SOMEBODY THAT'S GOING TO BE DAMAGED BY THIS? MAYBE. BUT I LOOK AT THE NUMBERS, THE PERCENTAGES. AND I JUST DON'T THINK WE HAVE THAT MANY THAT WOULD FALL IN THAT CATEGORY. SO I WOULD SAY LET'S SIMPLIFY THINGS. I AGREE THAT THE MINIMUM NIGHT'S STAY -- ON THE DEAL YOU SAY FOR SHORT-TERM RENTAL AND THEN LIMITED SEASONAL USE BUT I THINK YOU MEANT FOR ALL CATEGORIES. I AGREE THAT I DON'T THINK YOU SHOULD LIMIT IT. I THINK ONE NIGHT'S FINE. BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO USE A SLEDGE HAMMER ON A GNAT BECAUSE THE PROBLEMS THAT WE HAVE ARE A VERY TINY PERCENTAGE OF THE OVERALL COMMUNITY THAT'S HERE. I AGREE STRONGLY WITH ON-SITE MANAGEMENT, CHANGING THE RULES. GIVING THEM MORE FREEDOM AND FLEXIBILITY. I AGREE STRONGLY THAT IF YOU'RE RENTING ONE ROOM, THIS SHOULD BE AS SIMPLE AS FILLING OUT A ONE-PAGE FORM IF POSSIBLE AGREEING TO THE REGULATORY ENVIRONMENT. I DON'T WANT TO OVERBURDEN SOMEBODY WHO'S A GOOD ACTOR, AND THEY'RE ABLE TO AFFORD A HOUSE IN PLANO BY RENTING A ROOM OUT. THEY PROVIDE A NECESSARY SERVICE TO THE COMMUNITY. I DON'T KNOW THAT WE GOT ALL OF THE GOALS OF THE SHORT-TERM RENTAL STUDY, BUT I THINK IT'S BECAUSE THERE'S STILL SOME QUESTIONS THAT PROBABLY HAVEN'T EVEN BEEN ASKED YET THAT WE DON'T KNOW. AND SO I THINK THAT -- IS IT POSSIBLE THAT WE'RE GOING TO NEED TO TWEAK THIS ORDINANCE DOWN THE ROAD? YES. BUT I THINK AGAIN, AS I SAID, WE'RE CLOSE ENOUGH TO GETTING SOMETHING DONE WHICH THE CITIZENS WANT. THEY DON'T WANT THE GRAY AREA. YOU GUYS DON'T WANT IT GRAY. YOU GUYS DON'T WANT IT GRAY. WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING. AND THIS IS CLOSE ENOUGH TO REALLY, REALLY GOOD THAT I THINK THAT WE GET THIS IN PLACE. SO, IS THERE PARTICULAR QUESTIONS OR FEEDBACK THAT YOU WANT THAT YOU DID NOT GET FROM US TONIGHT? AND -- YES, GO AHEAD. >> I THINK -- SO WE HEARD YOU ON BEDS, THE APARTMENT COMPLEXES, REMOVING THE LIMITED RIGHT OFF THE BAT. IT SOUNDS LIKE POTENTIALLY GOING TO JUST ONE NIGHT MINIMUM, NOT TWO. I THINK THERE WAS SOME CONVERSATION OAK ABOUT MAYBE A LONGER STAY IN VACATION RENTALS. >> Chair Downs: IF WE GO TO LONGER WE'VE MOVED AWAY FROM SHORT-TERM RENTALS. SO THEN DOES IT FALL INTO THIS CATEGORY? >> IF IT'S MAYBE A FOUR OR FIVE-NIGHT MINIMUM IF THERE'S AN APPETITE FOR THAT IN VACATION RENTALS. >> Chair Downs: OH, ON A VACATION? I DON'T THINK THAT -- NO. NOT SEASONAL, JUST VACATION RENTALS. WITH OFF-SITE MANAGEMENT. DID YOU GET DENSITY IN THERE? I WANT TO MAKE A POINT ABOUT DENSITY FOR YOU GUYS TO HEAR AS WELL AS THE COMMISSION. I THINK WE HAVE TO BE CAUTIOUS WITH THAT. I THINK IF WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO DETERMINE SOME DENSITY CALCULATION, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO EXCLUDE GRANDFATHERED PROPERTIES. IF THE PROPERTIES ARE ALREADY THERE AND WE SAY HERE'S OUR DENSITY CALCULATION, AND IT'S ALREADY MET BECAUSE OF EXISTING, WE COULD GET INTO TROUBLE. IT WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT DENSITY, I ENCOURAGE YOU TO TALK WITH OUR LEGAL TEAM TO DETERMINE WHAT WE CAN AND CAN'T DO THERE, BECAUSE THERE ARE CERTAIN RESTRICTIONS THAT WOULD COME FROM IMPLEMENTING A RANDOM DENSITY. >> AND ON THAT DENSITY FILTER, DOES THE COMMISSION FEEL LIKE THAT SHOULD APPLY TO ONE-ROOM BED AND BREAKFAST AS WELL AS VACATION RENTALS? >> Chair Downs: I THINK IT'S A VALID QUESTION. IN MY MIND, NO. WE CAN SAY, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT 40% -- I WROTE IT DOWN. 40% OF PROPERTIES ARE BEING BOUGHT BY SHORT-TERM RENTAL. I THINK GOVERNOR ABBOTT SAID TO DO THAT. I REMEMBER READING THAT ARTICLE AND THE BACKGROUND TO IT WAS THAT THAT WAS CITED BY SOME COMPANY OR SOME PODCAST. THERE WASN'T A WAY TO VERIFY THAT. IF WE APPLIED THAT TO HERE, LAST YEAR IN PLANO THERE WAS SOMETHING LIKE -- THERE WAS 2,366 HOMES SOLD. THAT WOULD MEAN THAT WE ADDED, IF IT'S 40% OF THEM WENT TO SHORT-TERM RENTALS, WE ADDED OVER 900 SHORT-TERM RENTALS LAST YEAR. THAT'S NOT HAPPENING IN PLANO. SO, I PERSONALLY BELIEVE THAT IF IT'S AN OWNER OF THE HOUSE THAT LIVES THERE AND THEY WANT TO RENT OUT ONE BEDROOM, I'M NOT WORRIED THAT THE WHOLE STREET'S GOING TO TURN INTO THAT. THAT'S ME. ANYONE ELSE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT ISSUE? IT'S A CONCERN -- >> I'M NOT THAT CONCERNED ABOUT IT. >> Chair Downs: OKAY. FROM A DENSITY STANDPOINT, DO WE WANT TO CONSIDER THE PERSON WHO LIVES IN THE HOUSE AND RENTS OUT ONE OF THEIR BEDROOMS -- DO WE WANT TO CONSIDER THAT IN TERMS OF WHETHER WE ALLOW OR PUT A DENSITY RESTRICTION ON IT? >> Olley: FABRIC, BEING WITHIN THAT GEOGRAPHIC LOCATION, THEN I WOULD APPLY THE DENSITY TO PREVENT THAT, THE OFF-SITE MANAGEMENT, VERSUS SOMEONE WHO IS YOUR NEIGHBOR WHO JUST HAPPENS TO RENT OUT A ROOM. >> Chair Downs: OKAY. AND I DON'T WANT TO GET TOO FAR HERE. LET ME GET TO YOUR QUESTION. IS EVERYONE OKAY WITH A DENSITY CALCULATION FOR VACATION RENTALS? YES? >> I'M AGAINST THE VACATION RENTALS FOR LESS THAN 30 DAYS. I WOULD LIKE THAT STRUCK AND VACATION RENTALS WOULD BE ANYTHING LESS THAN 30 DAYS I WOULD LIKE TO NOT SEE BECAUSE IT OPENS OUR ENTIRE CITY UP TO NOW SHORT-TERM RENTALS AND I THINK IT'S A MISTAKE. >> Chair Downs: I THINK WE'RE ALREADY LIMITING THEM IN TERMS OF LOCATION, RIGHT? >> NO, WE'RE NOT. >> THE VACATION -- >> Chair Downs: SEASONAL. GO AHEAD. >> SO, VACATION RENTALS, IF WE REMOVE THE LIMITED SEASONAL IN THIS MAP, THE BEIGE AREA -- I'M SORRY, THIS LEGEND IS OUT -- IS INCORRECT. SO PLEASE IGNORE WHAT THE WORDS SAY. BUT THE BEIGE COLOR IS WHERE VACATION RENTALS WOULD BE DISALLOWED. ACROSS THE BOARD. THE GREEN COLOR -- BOTH GREEN COLORS WOULD BE VACATION RENTALS WOULD BE ALLOWED BY RIGHT. >> Chair Downs: SO, ESSENTIALLY -- OKAY. S, MOVING ON FROM THAT, LET'S GO BACK TO HER QUESTION, WHICH WAS DO WE WANT TO CONSIDER THAT ONE BEDROOM OWNER-OCCUPIED FROM A DENSITY STANDPOINT? NO? >> I SAY WE CAN MAKE A DECISION. I CANNOT MAKE A DECISION BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW THIS ONE ROOM HAS FOUR BEDS OR SIX BEDS OR SIX BEDS. >> Chair Downs: THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION IN TERMS OF LIMITATIONS ON THE NUMBER OF RESIDENTS, OR NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN THAT ONE BEDROOM. >> AND I SHARE THAT. BUT I THINK THERE'S THINGS WE DON'T KNOW. SO IT'S THE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES I'M MOSTLY WORRIED ABOUT, WHICH IS WHY I WAS SUGGESTING DENSITY, BECAUSE AS YOU SAID, THIS IS GOING TO EVOLVE. AND ONCE WE GIVE THINGS TO PEOPLE, IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO TAKE BACK. I WOULD ERR ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION IN THAT REGARD. THAT'S MY OPINION. >> Chair Downs: REASONABLE. >> I AGREE COMPLETELY. >> Chair Downs: LET'S NOT GET TOO FAR. >> WE DON'T GET TOO FAR. IN MY MIND I'M LOOKING AT DENSITY FROM TWO DIFFERENT -- THERE'S FROM A LOT PERSPECTIVE, HOW MANY PEOPLE CAN BE IN THAT ONE BUILDING, PROPERTY, LOT. THAT'S WHERE THE BEDS VERSUS BEDROOMS QUESTION COMES IN. THERE'S FROM A GEOGRAPHICAL, HOW MANY HOMES, DENSITY, HAVE THAT SHORT-TERM RENTAL AS A USE TO THAT HOME. THAT'S A DIFFERENT FILTER. SO FOR THE SECOND FILTER, ON-SITE MANAGEMENT SHOULD BE TREATED DIFFERENT FROM AFFOOFF-SITEMANAGEMENT AND I DOU PUT A DENSITY FILTER ON THE SECOND CATEGORY FOR AN OFF-SITE MANAGER. YOU PUT THAT OFF-SITE MANAGER BECAUSE THAT GOES AGAINST WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO SOLVE FROM A COMMUNITY FABRIC PERSPECTIVE. >> Chair Downs: LET ME APPROACH IT THIS WAY, THEN. WHEN YOU BRING THIS BACK, MAYBE GIVE US A COUPLE OF OPTIONS REGARDING THE DENSITY, INCLUDING ONE THAT TAKES INTO CONSIDERATION ON-SITE MANAGEMENT, ONE-BEDROOM KIND OF THING. YOU GUYS WERE PROBABLY GOING TO DO THAT ANYWAY. I'LL JUST ASK THAT. WE DON'T HAVE TO MAKE THE DECISION TONIGHT. >> IF YOU -- DEFINITIONS MATTER. THE DEVIL'S IN THE DETAILS. EXACTLY WHAT IS A BEDROOM? WHAT IF I BUILD MY HOUSE AND I BUILD A BEDROOM THAT TURNS IT INTO A HOSTEL AND I HAVE 12 BEDS. PEOPLE ARE COMING IN. IT'S ONE BEDROOM. I THINK WE HAVE TO SORT THROUGH THAT. THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING. >> Chair Downs: THAT'S RIGHT. SHE TOOK AWAY THE NUMBER OF BEDS THING. I THINK THAT'S ACCURATE BECAUSE I'VE RENTED AIRBNBS WHERE THEY SAY SIX PEOPLE CAN STAY AND IT'S 600 SQUARE FEET. SO TWO OF THEM SLEEP STANDING UP IN THE CORNER. >> NOT ONLY THAT, IF YOU GO TO EUROPE YOU DO SEE HOSTEL-STYLE HOUSING AND MULTIPLE BEDS AND THOSE KIND OF THINGS. I THINK WE DO PAY ATTENTION TO THE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES EVEN ON A ONE-BEDROOM UNIT. >> Chair Downs: WE CAN DO THAT. LET'S TALK IN TERMS OF REALITY OF WHAT'S PROBABLY OR POTENTIALLY GOING TO HAPPEN VERSUS HERE'S THE WORST-CASE SCENARIO AND LET'S GET CONCERNED ABOUT IT. THEY'VE GOT FEEDBACK THAT WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT BEDS. WE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT DENSITY. IN PARTICULAR, WITH NONOWNER OCCUPIED SITUATIONS. OKAY. >> I JUST WANT TO GO BACK TO THE OVERALL GLOBAL VISION AND LET THEM FIGURE OUT THE DEFINITIONS. IN MY MIND IF I M'VE GOT A GUEST ROOM AND MY KIDS COME TO STAY AND TWO OF THEM SLEEP ON THE FLOOR, IT'S MY GUEST ROOM. EVERYBODY'S GOT A GUEST ROOM. ONCE WE GET TO THE POINT WHERE I'VE GOT MULTIPLE ROOMS THAT ARE BEING OCCUPIED AT A DURATION, THAT CHANGES THE RULE. BUT IF IT'S ONE BEDROOM, WHETHER IT'S TWO OR FOUR PEOPLE IN THAT BEDROOM, FOR ONE NIGHT, THAT'S NOT WHAT I'M WORRIED ABOUT. WHAT I'M WORRIED ABOUT IS THAT MULTI-BEDROOM OR EMPTY HOUSE THAT'S BEING OCCUPIED BY 20 PEOPLE. AND THAT'S WHY FROM A DENSITY PERSPECTIVE I'M NOT WORRIED ABOUT THE ONE-BEDROOM UNITS. >> MY POINT IS IF IT'S A ONE-BEDROOM THAT TURNS INTO FOUR CONTRACTS BECAUSE THEY'RE TREATING IT LIKE A HOSTEL, THAT'S A PROBLEM. BUT -- THAT'S NOT ADDRESSED IN A ONE-BEDROOM. >> WHEN IT'S COMMERCIAL, NOW WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE. YOUR KIDS ARE ONE THING. I'M MAKING MONEY, THAT'S A DIFFERENT THING. >> Tong: I AGREE -- >> Chair Downs: MR. LISLE HAS HAD HIS BUTTON PUSHED FOR FIVE MINUTES. HE GOES, DOES ANYONE ELSE USE THEIR BUTTONS? >> Tong: NO, WE'RE NOT. >> C >> FOLLOWING THE RULES. >> Chair Downs: WE'RE STARTING TO GET LOOPY. >> Tong: I WANT TO FINISH THIS ONE THOUGHT, BECAUSE I THINK THERE WILL BE UNITENDED CONSEQUENCES. IF WE WERE GOING TO DIFFERENTIATE B&B ONE AND TWO TO FIVE, TWO TO FIVE WILL REQUIRE A LOT OF WORK AND LIMITATIONS AND B&B ONE WITHOUT ANYTHING, EVERYBODY WILL TURN INTO B&B ONE AND THEY WILL TURN ONE BEDROOM INTO A WHOLE HOUSE. >> Chair Downs: THAT WOULD ALSO REQUIRE THEM TO HAVE SOMEONE LIVING THERE. >> Tong: YEAH, I'M JUST TALKING ABOUT B&B TWO AND FIVE VERSUS ONE. >> Chair Downs: LET'S LISTEN TO OUR LEGAL COUNSEL. >> I JUST HAVE A QUESTION. SO, IF YOU ALL ARE TALKING ABOUT RESTRICTING BY BEDROOM OR BED, IF IT'S ONE ROOM AND THERE'S A BED IN IT, CAN YOU HAVE TWO PEOPLE AND THEN AS MANY KIDS AS THEY BRING, OR -- I THINK WE NEED A LITTLE MORE GUIDANCE, BECAUSE I FIND IT VERY DIFFICULT WHEN YOU SAY GO BY BEDROOM OR GO BY PEOPLE OR GO BY NUMBER OF BEDS. I MEAN, SOMETIMES YOU PILE THE KIDS IN THE BED. I MEAN, CAN YOU GIVE US JUST A LITTLE MORE DIRECTION THERE SO THAT WE CAN DRAFT -- >> WHENEVER IT COMES TO MULTIPLE CONTRACTS -- >> Chair Downs: HANG ON. LET'S GO BACK TO USING THE BUTTONS, BECAUSE WE'VE GOTTEN OUT OF CONTROL. AND I THOUGHT WE WERE DONE FIVE MINUTES AGO AT LEAST. ONE SIMPLE QUESTION ABOUT DENSITY. MR. LISLE. >> Lisle: I JUST WANT TO MAKE TWO QUICK POINTS. THIS IS GOING TO BE CLOSE TO IMPOSSIBLE TO ENFORC. AND IN A RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT, THERE SHOULD BE PEOPLE THAT RESIDE THERE AND LIVE THERE. THAT'S ALL. >> Chair Downs: OKAY. TURN YOUR BUTTON OFF. WHMR. BRONSKY. >> Bronsky: MY CONCERN IS THAT WE TURN INTO A EUROPEAN-STYLE HOSTEL IN OUR CITY THAT HAS FIVE, MAYBE EIGHT PEOPLE THAT ARE ALL UNRELATED INDIVIDUALS WITH ALL DIFFERENT CONTRACTS ALL IN THE SAME NEIGHBORHOOD, ALL -- SORRY? >> IN THE SAME HOUSE. >> Bronsky: IN THE SAME HOUSE. WHAT I'M SAYING IS, IN THE ONE-BEDROOM THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE, OWNER-OCCUPIED, BUT THEY'VE GOT FOUR OR MAYBE SIX, YOU KNOW, LET'S SAY THREE OR FOUR SETS OF BUNK BEDS AND THEY'VE RENTED OUT EACH ONE. >> BUT THE OWNER CAN'T GO ON VACATION. HE DOESN'T HAVE TO BE THERE. >> Bronsky: MY POINT IS THAT WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL -- >> Chair Downs: I'M SORRY. >> Bronsky: THAT WE DON'T TURN IT INTO A HOSTEL. >> Chair Downs: OKAY. >> Bronsky: THAT'S MY POINT. >> Chair Downs: OKAY. MR. RATLIFF? >> Ratliff: I THINK -- AND SOMEBODY CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONS SLEEPS THREE. SLEEPS SIX. IT SEEMS TO ME THAT'S THE TEST. >> Chair Downs: I THINK SO. I THINK WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE THINGS EVEN MORE COMPLICATED. HOW ARE THEY ADVERTISING THEIR ROOM? >> IF IT SLEEPS 0-4, IT'S A B&B ONE. >> Chair Downs: IN ONE ROOM. >> IT'S A B&B ONE. AND IN MY MIND THAT'S HOW THEY ADVERTISE IT. THEY'RE GOING TO CHOOSE HOW MANY IT SLEEPS. >> Chair Downs: I'M GLAD WE HAVE SMART STAFF AND THEY CAN INTERPRET OUR RAMBLINGS SOMETIMES AND TURN IT INTO STUFF THAT WE CAN ACTUALLY -- COMMISSIONER TONG. WE REALLY NEED TO MOVE ON. >> Tong: SORRY. I KNOW. LAST COMMENT. I UNDERSTAND THAT YOUR INTENTIONS. AND I FREE THAT YOU'RE ALL VERY KIND AND GENEROUS. AND I'M KIND OF THE SAME WAY. HOWEVER, THERE WILL BE, AGAIN, I'M GOING TO SAY THAT AGAIN. THERE WILL BE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES. IF YOU ALLOW THAT ONE-BEDROOM TO BE SPECIAL FROM THE OTHER REGULATIONS, PEOPLE WILL ALL FLOOD INTO THAT ONE-BEDROOM AND THEY WILL PUT EVERYTHING IN THERE. YOU CAN'T EVEN ENFORCE. I AGREE WITH MR. LISLE. HOW DO YOU ENFORCE? DO YOU GO TO EVERY AIRBNB ADVERTISEMENT, LOOK FOR THAT 0-4 BEDS, VERSUS ONE-BEDROOM? HOW DO YOU ENFORCE THAT? >> Chair Downs: SO, THAT'S A QUESTION FOR COUNSEL TO DEAL WITH HONESTLY. AND THE TRUTH IS THE WAY THE ENFORCEMENT WORKS IS ARE THERE COMPLAINTS. IF THERE ARE ZERO COMPLAINTS, THE NEIGHBORS DON'T CARE, IS IT OKAY? RIGHT? >> BUT WHAT HAPPENS IF THERE'S A DOZEN COMPLAINTS? THEN WHAT DO YOU DO? >> WE DO REGISTRATION. >> Chair Downs: THAT'S WHY WE HAVE A REGISTRATION AND AN ENFORCEMENT ORDINANCE AND THAT'S THE COUNCIL'S ROLE, NOT OURS. >> I AGREE. >> Chair Downs: OKAY. SERIOUSLY, I'M AFRAID TO ASK THIS QUESTION. DO YOU HAVE EVERYTHING THAT YOU NEED TO DRAFT SOMETHING THAT WE CAN NOW, YOU KNOW, BEAT AROUND WITH A BASEBALL BAT ON APRIL 1ST? >> I THINK WE DO, YES. >> Chair Downs: WOULD YOU LIKE TO GO SIT DOWN? >> THAT WOULD BE WONDERFUL. [ APPLAUSE ] >> Chair Downs: THANK YOU. THAT SHOULD COUNT AS 5,000 STEPS AT LEAST. OKAY. IT'S 10:57. I HOPE -- IS ANYONE HERE FOR THE SILVER LINE STATION? [ LAUGHING ] >> Chair Downs: BUT YOU WERE HERE FOR THE OTHER THING, TOO. THANK YOU AGAIN FOR BEING HERE TONIGHT. OBVIOUSLY WE TAKE THIS SERIOUSLY DESPITE MY LIGHT-HEARTED -- SOMETIMES. THAT'S JUST AN ATTEMPT TO MAKE SURE EVERYONE UNDERSTANDS. EVERYONE LAUGHS. WE'RE ALL THE SAME. WE ALL CARE ABOUT THE CITY AND WE'RE LOOKING FOR A WAY TO GET THROUGH THIS. I APPRECIATE THE WAY MR. BROUNOFF PUT IT, JUST SOME BALANCE. WE DON'T WANT PEOPLE GETTING THEIR HOUSE SHOT WITH A BULLET. WE DON'T WANT PARTIES GOING ON NEXT-DOOR. WE CAN DO THAT. IT'S JUST GOING TO TAKE SOME EFFORT BY ALL OF US. AND SO, ALL RIGHT. IT'S 10:58. WE'LL TAKE FIVE MINUTES TOPS. BE BACK, OKAY? THANK YOU. ♪ >> Chair Downs: THANK YOU FOR TURNING MY MIC ON. OKAY. DO YOU WANT TO WRAP US UP HERE? >> SURE. GOOD EVENING, COMMISSION. MY NAME IS JASON, SENIOR MOBILITY PLANNER. IN THE INTEREST OF TIME, I'M GOING TO CUT TO THE VERY END OF MY PRESENTATION. WE'VE PROVIDED A STAFF REPORT, MARCH 4TH AND THEN THIS PREVIOUS STAFF REPORT. SO, OBVIOUSLY IT'S A VERY EXCITING TIME FOR THE SILVER LINE STATION AREA'S PLAN. WE'RE MOVING, FINISHING THE ENGAGEMENT WE'VE HAD SINCE APRID THE PROJECT ADVISORY GROUP. AND NOW WE ARE BEGINNING TO TAKE THE INFORMATION THAT WE'VE HEARD. WE'VE DEVELOPED FRAMEWORKS THAT OUTLINE THE VISION FOR LAND USE, TRANSPORTATION, AND OPEN SPACE AND CHARACTER AROUND THE STATION AREAS. THAT WAS INCLUDED IN YOUR PACKET. WHAT WE'RE DOING NOW IS WE'RE MOVING INTO THE IMPLEMENTATION PHASE. HOW DO WE CRAFT THE LANGUAGE TO MAKE THE FRAMEWORKS REPRESENTED IN THE STAFF REPORTS A REALITY. FOLLOWING DIRECTION FROM THE COMMISSION AND BASED UPON ANY PUBLIC INPUT THAT WE'VE RECEIVED, STAFF WILL DEVELOP THE FULL DOCUMENT, IMPLEMENTATION PLAN WILL BE INCLUDED. WE'LL INCLUDE PROACTIVE STRATEGIES AND ACTIONS NEEDED TO ADVANCE THE VISIONS OUTLINED IN THE FRAMEWORK PLAN. SO, BASICALLY, NO ACTION IS REQUIRED AS PART OF THIS ITEM BUT WE ARE SEEKING DIRECTION. SO I NEED TO PICK YOUR BRAINS A LITTLE BIT MORE ON ANYTHING THAT YOU SAW IN THE DRAFT FRAMEWORK PLANS AND THE STAFF REPORTS FROM MARCH 4TH OR MARCH 18TH SPECIFICALLY DIRECTION ON THE PROPOSED LAND USE RECOMMENDATIONS TRANSPORTATION AND OPEN SPACE OR OTHER IDEAS. AND AGAIN, WE'VE DISTILLED FEEDBACK THAT WE'VE HEARED SINCE APRIL '23. WE'VE DEVELOPED FRAMEWORKS THAT OUTLINE THE VISION AND NOW WE'RE GOING TO MOVE INTO THE IMPLEMENTATION WHERE WE WRITE ABOUT AND PUT TOGETHER HOW THE FRAMEWORKS CAN BE DRAFTED. WE WILL BE BACK TO THE COMMISSION WITH THE FULL PLAN. SO WE'LL HAVE THE IMPLEMENTATION PLAN DRAFTED AND IT WILL COME FOR PUBLIC COMMENT AND THE COMMISSION WILL BE ABLE TO SEE THAT AGAIN. SO. THANK YOU. >> Chair Downs: [ LAUGHING ] NO ACTION REQUIRED. >> NO ACTION REQUIRED. >> Chair Downs: OKAY. I'M LOOKING BECAUSE I'M SURE THERE'S SOME FEEDBACK AND COMMENTARY. MR. RATLIFF. >> Ratliff: WAIT AND SEE IF YOU WERE READY. >> Chair Downs: YES. >> Ratliff: OVERALL, I WAS PART OF THE PROCESS, SO I'M FAMILIAR WITH IT, PROBABLY MORE THAN I NEED TO BE. BUT OVERALL IT'S A GREAT DOCUMENT. I STILL HAVE SOME CONCERNS ABOUT THE PRECISION BY WHICH WE HAVE DEFINED SOME TRANSPORTATION CORRIDORS AND SOME POTENTIAL PARK SITES. AND I WANT -- I KNOW Y'ALL PUT SOME WORDS IN THIS REPORT, WHICH I APPRECIATE THAT SAID WE'RE NOT DEFINING BOUNDARIES AND WE'RE NOT IDENTIFYING SPECIFIC PROPERTIES, WHICH IS GREAT. BUT I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE CONTINUE TO REPEAT THAT, BECAUSE I THINK THERE IS SOME CONCERN SPECIFICALLY IN THE 12TH STREET AREA ABOUT SPECIFIC PROPERTIES THAT LOOK LIKE THEY'VE BEEN IDENTIFIED TO HAVE A ROAD CUT THROUGH THEM OR HAVE A PARK BUILT THERE, HAVE A PARKING LOT BUILT THERE. AND I THINK THAT IS CREATING SOME ANGST IN THE COMMUNITY. AND SO I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE REALLY CLEAR IN THE FINAL PLAN THAT THIS IS A VISION. IT'S NOT INTENDING TO IDENTIFY CERTAIN TRACTS. >> CORRECT. AND I AGREE WITH YOU. THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN EVIDENT THROUGH MY PRESENTATION. I'M GLAD YOU BROUGHT THAT UP. >> Ratliff: OTHER THAN THAT, IT'S A GREAT DOCUMENT OVERALL. >> Chair Downs: I DON'T SEE ANYBODY ELSE'S BUTTONS PUSHED. MR. OLLEY. NOW WE'VE GOT STUFF GOING. I'M SORRY. COMMISSIONER TONG. WOW. OKAY. THEY'RE ALL LIGHTING UP. OH WOW. ALL RIGHT. COMMISSIONER TONG. >> Tong: OKAY. I HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS. ONE IS THAT THE OLD INDUSTRIAL DISTRICT SURROUNDING THE RESIDENTIAL AREA, ARE THOSE EXISTING AREAS THAT ARE ALREADY THERE, OR THEY'RE THE PROPOSED ZONING? >> SO, THE FRAMEWORK PLANS DON'T REPRESENT ZONING, THEY REPRESENT THE LAND USES. IN GENERAL, IF YOU'RE REFERRING TO THE LIGHT INDUSTRIAL, THOSE IN SOME WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM CURRENTLY HAVE LIGHT INDUSTRIAL. FOR INSTANCE, THE LIGHT INDUSTRIAL DISTRICT, THERE'S NOT A LOT OF CHANGE. THE EVOLVING INDUSTRY HAS A MIX AND WOULD ALLOW ADAPTIVE REUSE AND MORE COMBINATION OF COMMERCIAL AND LIGHT INDUSTRIAL. >> Tong: OKAY. SOME OF THEM ARE ALREADY THERE, BUT THE EVOLVING ONE ARE THE ONES THAT YOU'RE CHANGING INTO? >> IT ALLOWS FOR CHANGE. IT ALLOWS FOR REDEVELOPMENT. IT ALLOWS FOR ADAPTIVE REUSE IN THAT CASE. THE LIGHT INDUSTRIAL WHICH I BELIEVE IS EAST OF N AVENUE GENERALLY WILL STAY -- SHOULD STAY THE SAME THAT'S THERE TODAY. THAT'S WHAT THE PLAN RECOMMENDS. BUT EVOLVING INDUSTRY IS A LITTLE BIT OF A MELD. >> Tong: I'M JUST A LITTLE CONCERNED OF HAVING THE INDUSTRIAL USE RIGHT NEXT TO THE RESIDENTIAL AND THE MIXED USE, THE IMPACT ON THE LIVES, OR MAYBE THE FUTURE USE OF THE RESIDENTS THERE. >> OKAY. >> Tong: I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S KIND OF TRADITIONAL, OR IS IT SOMETHING THAT WE CAN CONSIDER HAVING SOMETHING DIFFERENT? >> MOST OF THAT IS ALREADY ZONED LIGHT INDUSTRIAL ONE AND THERE ARE INDUSTRIAL BUILDINGS TODAY, BUT THOSE BUILDING FORMATS ARE NOT CONDUCIVE TO TODAY'S NEEDS. CEILING HEIGHTS ARE LOW. IT WOULD BE ALLOWING THEM TO TRANSITION OUT OF INDUSTRIAL AND ADAPTIVELY TO BE REUSED FOR BREWERIES OR THINGS LIKE THAT, MORE BOUTIQUEY NEEDS. >> Tong: THE EVOLVING INDUSTRIAL IS ALLOWING THE CURRENT ONE CHANGING INTO SOMETHING MORE COMMERCIAL OR RETAIL. OKAY. THANK YOU. >> Chair Downs: MR. CARY. >> Cary: SOME OF MY COMMENTS ARE GRANULAR. SOME I'LL PROBABLY SEND TO YOU RATHER THAN JUST REVIEW THEM TONIGHT THAT YOU CAN DISTRIBUTE AS YOU DESIRE. JUST A COUPLE THINGS. ONE OF THE AREAS IS DOUGLAS. I THINK IT'S ALL OF OUR GOAL TO PROTECT DOUGLAS FROM GENTRIFICATION, AS ALL OF THIS MOVES THROUGH. ONE OF THE THINGS WE COULD DO IS LOOK AT CALMING SOME OF THE TRAFFIC THROUGH DOUGLAS. I KNOW WE HAVE OTHER PLANS FOR THAT. CITIZENS, I'VE HEARD THAT THERE'S SOME ISSUES WITH TRAFFIC FLOW THROUGH THERE. THIS IS GRANULAR STUFF. ALL OF THIS I THINK CAN ALL BE BENEFITTED WHILE THE PLAN IS SOLID, CAN BE BENEFITTED BY INCREASING RIDERSHIP ON D.A.R.T. I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH INFLUENCE WE CAN HAVE ON THAT, BUT EVERYTHING I KNOW IS THE RIDERSHIP IS PRETTY PATHETIC OVERALL. AND SO MAYBE IT'S A CHICKEN EGG OR BI BUILD IT AND THEY WILL CO. BUT UNTIL WE GET BETTER RIDERSHIP THESE PLANS ARE GOOD BUT I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY MEAN. ONE OF THE THINGS WE COULD DO TO HELP THE RIDERSHIP IS REALLY, AS A CITY BE FOCUSED ON SAFETY AROUND THESE SITES ESPECIALLY. AND SO I'VE HEARD FROM A NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT THEY HAVE CONCERNS WITH RIDING THIS AT CERTAIN TIMES BECAUSE MAYBE IT'S NOT AS SAFE AS THEY WISH IT WERE. YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW WHAT OUR PLANS ARE AT SOME OF THESE EXTENSIONS WITH 13TH AND 12TH. AND, YOU KNOW, I HAVE CONCERNS FOR THE PEOPLE THAT OWN PROPERTY ON 13TH RIGHT NOW THAT WE'VE GOT A HASH LINE THROUGH SOME STUFF. SO IF WE'RE GOING TO DO IT LET'S FIGURE OUT WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO OR TAKE THE HASH LINES OUT. I'M CONCERNED ABOUT -- AGAIN, ALL THIS IS GRANULAR BUT I HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT THAT. AND I WONDER IF THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO REDUCE OR ELIMINATE THROUGH ALL OF THIS SOME OF THE MINIMUM PARKING NEEDS. BILL IS GONE. I HATE TO BRING UP PARKING WITHOUT HIM HERE. [ LAUGHING ] >> Cary: MAYBE HE COULD COME BACK. I THINK WE SHOULD LOOK AT WHERE WE CAN DO THAT. WE'VE HAD THAT DISCUSSION ON THIS COMMISSION SO MANY TIMES NOW. THOSE WOULD BE MY COMMENTS. THANK YOU. >> Chair Downs: MR. OLLEY. >> Olley: ACTUALLY I HAD A QUESTION. I OPENED UP THE WRONG PDF. BUT MORE COMMENT, TO WHAT COMMISSIONER CARY SAID, WOULD BE MORE INTERESTED TO SEE HOW DOES IT IMPACT THE DOUGLAS COMMUNITY. I WOULD HATE TO SEE ANYTHING THAT CHANGES THE VIBE AND THE NATURE OF THAT COMMUNITY. AND TO THE COMMENT ON -- FROM WHAT I CAN SEE, THE ATTENTION TO STREETSCAPE AND LIGHTING AND WHAT HAVE YOU SHOULD BE A LURE TO GET PEOPLE TO BE MORE INCLINED TO USE D.A.R.T. BUT JUST MORE THAN ANYTHING, ENSURING A FOCUS ON KEEPING THE FABRIC OF THE DOUGLAS COMMUNITY. >> WELL, ONE THING I WANT TO ADD TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION ABOUT THE DOUGLAS COMMUNITY, WE'RE NOT RECOMMENDING IN THE PLAN ANY CHANGES TO THE LAND USE CHARACTER OF DOUGLAS. AND WE ARE PROPOSING A THREE-STORY MAXIMUM HEIGHT TRANSLATION AREA IN THE HATCH. SO THAT'S BETWEEN THE TRANSITIONAL MIXED USE AND THE DOUGLAS NEIGHBORHOOD TO ACT AS A BUFFER AS IT WERE BETWEEN DOCUMENTS THAT WOULD LIKELY OCCUR CLOSER TO THE STATION AND TO SEPARATE THEM A LITTLE BIT FROM THE DOUGLAS AREA. SO THAT WAS A CONCERN AND A COMMENT THAT WE HEARD MANY TIMES THROUGHOUT THE ENGAGEMENT PROCESS FOR DOUGLAS. >> Chair Downs: MR. BROUNOFF. >> Brounoff: THANK YOU. OVERALL I THINK IT WAS A VERY IMPRESSIVE JOB. THE ONLY OBSERVATIONS I WOULD MAKE ARE THAT A LOT OF THE NEIGHBORHOODS WITHIN THE STUDY AREA ARE PRETTY WELL-ESTABLISHED ALREADY AND I JUST DON'T SEE THEM CHANGING, ESPECIALLY THE SINGLE-FAMILY. FOR EXAMPLE, THE SINGLE-FAMILY NEIGHBORHOOD ON THE NORTH SIDE OF 14TH STREET IN THE SHILOH STATION AREA. THE OLD DOWNTOWN AREA. THE 15TH, 14TH AND 15TH STREET AREA. THOSE ARE PRETTY ESTABLISHED. I SEE MORE ROOM FOR REVITALIZATION IN THE AREA SOUTH OF THE RAILROAD TRACK, OKAY? BUT HAVING SAID THAT, I THINK YOUR STUDY PROPERLY FOCUSED ON BROAD CATEGORIES OF LAND USE TO ALLOW SOME FLEXIBILITY IN WHAT HAPPENS. THE QUESTION MARK I HAVE IS THERE ARE TWO POTENTIAL PARK SITES IDENTIFIED SOUTH OF 14TH STREET ON PAGE 128. I WOULD THINK MAYBE YOU WOULD WANT TO STAY AWAY FROM PROPOSING SPECIFIC PROJECTS BECAUSE WHEN YOU PUT THAT DOWN THERE, YOU MIGHT BE CREATING THE IMPRESSION THAT THE CITY'S ABOUT TO USE IMMINENT DOMAIN TO SEIZE PROPERTY AND BUILD A PARK AND THAT COULD AFFECT PROPERTY VALUES. IT MIGHT INHIBIT THE ABILITY OF THE CURRENT PROPERTY OWNERS TO SELL THEIR PROPERTY. SO I WOULD PROBABLY, FOR A DOCUMENT LIKE THIS, MIGHT WANT TO ADVISE STAYING AWAY FROM SPECIFIC PROJECT PROPOSALS AND STICK TO BROAD-LANE USE CATEGORIES. BUT OTHER THAN THAT, GREAT WORK. THANK YOU. >> Chair Downs: COMMISSIONER TONG. >> Tong: THANK YOU, CHAIRMAN. I ACTUALLY HAD THIS QUESTION EARLIER AND FORGOT TO ASK. WE HAD SOME RENTAL BIKES BEFORE IN DOWNTOWN AREA. DO YOU REMEMBER? I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO IT. MAYBE NOT MANY USE OF IT. BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THIS WOULD BE A GOOD CHANCE TO BRING IT BACK BECAUSE NOW WE HAVE MORE, LIKE, PEDESTRIAN TRAFFIC, MAYBE BIKE TRAFFIC. IS THERE ANY PLAN ON GETTING THOSE RENTAL BIKES? >> ARE YOU REFERRING TO THE BIRD SCOOTERS AND -- >> Tong: YEAH. >> IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA? THE CITY IS WORKING WITH BIRD. AND FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS, THEY WORK WITH THE CITY ON WHERE THEY SHOULD GO AND WHERE THEY SHOULD NOT GO. THERE'S DEFINITELY AN OPTION TO ADD -- IT'S ALL ABOUT FIRST MILE/LAST MILE CONNECTIONS, HOW WILL PEOPLE GET FROM THE STATION OUT IN THE STATION AREAS AND E-SCOOTERS ARE A GREAT WAY TO DO THAT. >> Tong: THANKS. >> Chair Downs: OKAY. MY PRIMARY PIECE OF ADVICE, RESPONSE, FEEDBACK IS JUST TO AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE COMMUNICATE THE IDEA THAT THIS IS A BROAD VISION AND NOT A SPECIFIC PLAN. BECAUSE ASSUMPTIONS CAN BE MADE, DOLLARS COULD BE INVESTED. THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT COULD HAPPEN. PEOPLE MAKE POOR DECISIONS WHEN THEY ARE GIVEN POOR INFORMATION. AND IF THEY TAKE THIS AS THIS IS SOLID INFORMATION VERSUS A GENERAL IDEA, IT COULD GIVE THE WRONG MESSAGE. I WOULD LIKE TO REITERATE SOMETHING COMMISSIONER CARY BROUGHT UP. I'M NOT SURE HOW WE MANAGE THIS. BUT I WOULD ACTUALLY LOVE TO SEE A POLICE SUBSTATION OR SOMETHING DROPPED INTO THIS AREA. ANYPLACE WHERE YOU HAVE POSSIBLI HATE USING THIS WORD BECAUSE IT WAS USED VERY NEGATIVELY EARLIER AND I DON'T WANT TO TIE THESE TWO TOGETHER, BUT A TRANSIENT POPULATION IN THIS AREA. I THINK THAT WOULD BE GOOD. WE HAVE DOWNTOWN BENEFITS FROM THIS, THE POLICE STATION BEING RIGHT THERE AND THEY STILL HAVE ISSUES. I CERTAINLY DON'T WANT TO INCREASE OR BRING INTO THE DOUGLAS COMMUNITY COMMENTS THAT WOULD DEGRADE FROM THAT. SO, THAT'S WHAT I'VE GOT. ANYTHING ELSE? I DON'T SEE ANY LIGHTS ON. OKAY. THANK YOU, JASON. >> THANK YOU. >> Chair Downs: SO, I WANT TO WRAP UP WITH THIS, WHICH IS I APPRECIATE TONIGHT WHAT YOU GUYS DID AND I THINK YOU SHOULD TAKE NOTE OF THE FACT THAT WHEN WE FINISHED ITEM 3, WE GOT APPLAUSE FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE HOUSE. THAT'S NOT COMMON. BUT THAT SAYS THAT THEY APPRECIATE THE SERIOUSNESS WITH WHICH WE APPROACHED IT AND THAT WE LISTENED TO ALL OF THEM. SO, GOOD JOB, GUYS. APPRECIATE YOU. IT'S 11:20 AND WE ARE ADJOURNED. ♪