[Music] all right it's [Music] 6:30 special meeting order June 4th 2019 all right first item of the on the agenda we need to approve the agenda uh Patrick is there any changes Del addition no sir no additions all right hearing none I need a motion to approve the agenda I'll move to approve the agenda for June 4th 2019 I'll second that motion May second all in favor say I I iOS and motion carries item number four we have no old business so we're going to move on to item number five which is a public hearing for the oh wow I'm sorry I yeah we have no consent agenda also so item number five a public hearing this is for Street Improvement 2019-3 with this being a public hearing I need a motion to wave the reading noting it's been properly published I'll move to wave the reading of the notice that proper publication of the hearing was made in the newspaper a second on motion I'll second that motion made second all in favor say I I all oppos then to get started I need a motion to open the public hearing I'll move to open the public hearing I'll second all in favor say I I which means we will have our engineer give a uh a formal presentation at the end of that we'll open it for public comments if you have any questions or comments we need you to come up to the mic state your name and address and address your questions to whatever you've got all right all yours Mr Popper thank you uh I'm again I'm Larry popper many of you were at my meeting the meeting last week um to add on to what uh our chair has spoke of when you if you are going to speak there is a signin sheet to get to get uh the name and address correctly in the record so it's right on that table behind you there so the presentation I'm giving tonight is very similar presentation as last week um just a few modifications for tonight um the agenda or presentation is uh uh similar it's talking a little bit about the overall pavement management um for the township the proposed improvements um feasibility study findings Mill and overlay process cost assessments and then uh process and schedule before we get into the public portion um again we're trying to the the goal of our pavement management we reviewed the entire um Township system last fall and determined which areas need to be Improvement and we created a a kind of 5-year plan for improvement um throughout the township and um these areas uh we're talking about tonight Rose to the top because we're trying to get and catch these streets and do some improvements before they they get uh to a point where the costs are more expensive to complete so really the overall goal is to try to ensure that we're completing the improvements um at the right time to minimize cost for the whole entire Township and all the streets and so um I have a a bit of a slide here to kind of or first of all I want to talk a little bit about what affects degradation of a street and deterioration um the first two poor drainage and soils beneath the street are really the primary um root of uh of damage to a street if uh if water isn't properly managed and removed from the street it can seep through the cracks and if the soil beneath the street is a clay material um that holds water the freeze and thaw process moves material around underneath the street and causes cracks and and breakage of the street um so those first two are really important in in terms of uh managing a street other items that affect degradation are the original construction loading of the street traffic volumes that freeze and thought process as I mention and utility impacts so this is a slide I didn't show at our last meeting but she um we talked about at the first meeting in February but um since there was a number of new people at the last meeting I thought I'd bring it back and it it it's a it's a little bit complicated slide but I um want to kind of walk you through it so the Y AIS is a uh a street condition from 100% down to 0% and the xaxis is years number of years so there's two tracks that are shown on this on this life cycle chart for a street and it kind of shows how a street degrades over time um the red if we do nothing to a street it degrades along a curve and you may get 25 years out of the street if you do nothing to maintain that street um certainly by a 25 to 30% um point in the in the road life it's it's pretty bad you're at po lots of cracking and you start to hear that things need to be improved um when things when you if you follow that curve and you do not do proper maintenance or do not do overlay meal and overlays at the right time you you have to do that costly Improvement to replace everything basically to um bring it back up to 100% now the blue line is showing the maintenance activities that we would want to do to try to get between 50 and 60 years of life out of a street and so if we if we start at year zero three to five years we're doing a a a seal coat that protects the surface and a CRA and any crack ceiling which seals that surface you do it again maybe at year nine and then you kind of wait until you have uh more of a 20year life you know 15 to 20 years and then you might do a Mill and overlay to bring it up again but you're not bringing it all the way up because there's degradation beneath that surface a little bit you do another series of seal coats and crack sealing and another perhaps Mill and overlay to try to extend that life and try to get the most life out of that initial investment because that initial investment in in digging out soils and putting in base and concrete curb and gutter is by far the most costly component of Street improvements so if we can catch these streets before they get bad enough and do some Mill and overlays are are much cheaper in the long run if and if you follow the blue tract versus the red tract it can save the township as much as 30% so that's really the overall goal in the the program and trying to um do improvements for the township at the right time so using kind of that thought process and the evaluation of the entire Township these projects or these areas Rose to the top for 2019 include including the Hobie area Park Park viw Drive Fenway Court the Weston Woods area moonlake court and guilin court and wi Parkway um east of Oak Bean so we completed a feasibility study of all these areas and this is kind of a breakdown of what the reports talks about the it gives a little background existing conditions proposed improvements U public input with the with the questionnaires that were sent out um Project funding estimated costs estimated assessment amounts and funding sources for the project a schedule and conclusions and recommendations and so I want to talk a little bit about each area so Parkview area was constructed in the mid 1990s it has concrete curb and gutter um and the Township rates their streets on a 0 to five rating scale and for this for this uh neighborhood the ratings were as low as 2.26 um what does that mean typically if you're below 2.2 um you're looking to at more costly improvements between 2.2 in general to 3.25 you're looking at that Mill and overlay you're in that category and so with this neighborhood and the other neighborhood hoods tonight we're trying to get and catch these roadways before they get into a more more costly category in the future so we're proposing a Mill and overlay for Fen W and uh park viw courp or Parkview Drive Parkview Court was evaluated and that area was determined it was too far gone to do a mill in overlay so they were going to they're going to have to incur a larger Improvement at a later date um the Western wood Woods area constructed in the late 1990s again we had ratings as low as 2.26 um it has existing concrete curb and gutter and we're looking at Mill and overlay of of Weston woods and moonlake court and guilin is a um a short segment of roadway that the pavement thickness isn't isn't thick enough for uh a millon overlay so we're looking at um replacing the pavement there Whitebear Parkway constructed in 1998 um they're right at that Mark 2.2 is the rating um has existing concrete curb and gutter um a Mill and overlay is proposed we originally thought because of um the visual aesthetic that it might be something more than a millon overlay but um cores were taking taken of the pavement on all these streets and it was determined that the core um density and uh condition was was was good it was thick and we're really looking more for a Mill and overlay now and and a less costly repair which is good news um there are residential as well as commercial industrial properties along this stretch roadway and um we can talk a little bit about more about the assessments later but there's also White beir Township property that's uh developable that's a part of the um assessment uh number of units the Hobie area constructed in 2006 the ratings 2.93 um but what really caught our eye with this one is the pace of degradation since 2006 it is degrading um at a a a bit swifter Pace than we would expect and we want to catch and do improvements before um and before it gets it's before it gets worse this project in 2006 was a a a sewer and water project that um we're digging deep and there have been some settlements that appears with uh that project um we are looking at an edge Mill and overlay that can add some thickness to the roadway um and extend that life of that initial investment so I want to talk a little bit about the mill overlay process most of these areas have concrete curb and gutter so um the first step in the process is to remove cracked or settled concrete curb and gutter and so they come in and cut out segments that are are damaged and they're they're replaced um we would also do some minor utility repairs and that that means some um adjustment of the uh Valves and manholes um replacing Rings underneath the the castings of the catch basins to um make sure they're they're watertight um we also would do signage evaluation sight lines look at sight line issues um if there's a concrete repair in along a driveway um there would be driveway restoration with that but um one thing I wanted to mention was if there is concrete work in front of your driveway we need that concrete to cure for a period of 5 days before you can drive on it and so hopefully most repairs are are not a full driveway and you can get around the the repair with the other half of your driveway if it is a full driveway repair of the curb then we'll have to work with you on on access whether they um look at pouring it at half at a time or if uh if you're able to to step over the curb um you know if if if that's a possibility um that's that's a better product if we can pour it all at once so but we can we'll work with property owners on that when that time comes once the the driveways are restored and the curb and gutter is is repaired then they Mill and they grind off an inch and a half to 2 and 1 half Ines of the pavement and underneath that is is another layer of pavement that they're they're building another the new layer on top of and when that's that's ground down they would would sweep it and uh blow out the cracks and seal the cracks and then they pave over um with the new inch and a half to 2 and 1/2 inch um new binas if if your curb repair is in your yard they would then come back and restore the top soil inside so I have a couple pictures here this is a a the one picture on the left is a picture of uh the concrete curb repair and actually the catch Bas in repair where we're making that that uh catch spas in watertight again and uh we're repairing that curbing gutter around it the picture on the right is kind of the the paving process and you can see Bel below the truck is that other layer of batumin is below the upper layer and that's what they're they're Paving back um with the process these are some more pictures of that Paving process and to the right is the rolling um compaction of the of the pavement you can you can see also on the right there was some curb that was replaced and you can see how about how far back they get to replace that it's about 18 in to 2 feet all right getting into the costs um we evaluated the the four different areas and in total with all four areas about a $ 1.15 million project you can see the breakdown per area we also evaluated assessment options and we evaluated at 100% assessment assessing all the cost other than the um the cost for the utilities of water sewer and storm sewer um we assess we looked at the assessment of 75% of the cost and we looked at assessment of 50% of the cost and you can see the numbers on what that would mean for each area if they were separated out the town board has preliminary disc discussed a $3,000 assessment across all these projects um and really if if it does go that route and it's a $3,000 assessment um that assessment is uh if you don't pay it down or pay it off it would go on your taxes for a period of 10 years at a principal of about $300 a year plus interest for that year these are the properties in red that we are looking um to be part of the assessment um you can see the the variety of different parcel sizes you can see on on White Bear Parkway um you see a number of different Siz Parcels you have the Residential Properties along this stretch and you have commercial industrial in this area uh for Whitebear Parkway there's uh nine Residential Properties and when you equate the Frontage for Whitebear Parkway for the commercial industrial that makes up 41 units um for the remainder of Whitebear Parkway um most other areas are are residential there is a a unit up uh a couple units up on Weston Woods near moonlake court that are assessed uh um for commercial um multiple units so when we brought these uh costs and computed the assessments we brought these into a different funding tables you can see a 50% assessment funding table 75% assessment funding table 100% uh% assessment funding table and then I I added a slide here for a three the 3,000 preliminary assessment um and what that would mean for total assessments total Township funds water sanitary sewer and storb Sewer funds so the the project process includes uh um the feasibility study um the some of the meetings we've already held the public hearing tonight is a a Prelude to ordering the officially ordering the project um once that project is ordered then it come back with when plans are complete to approve the plans and would go out for bid and um that bid would come back to the town board for review and approval um and then we we'd start construction this is a slide that kind of shows that process very hard to see I understand but it shows the many steps needed um for a project like this to follow the state statutes um the the red is Staff activities or town engineer activities the blue are communication elements and the green are all Township board approval steps so tonight we're at the public hearing if if uh the project is ordered we'd bring back plans we plan to bring back plans on June 17th for approval so we can get it out to bid as soon as possible opening bids in July sometime um and begin Construction in early August um later in September and October is when assessment final assessment number was would be um um computed and evaluated by the town board and then there's another hearing um for the public if to speak or contest the assessment at that time and it's going to be roughly in October sometime you will be noticed um we're also looking at completion of the construction in October um a lot of the information that uh the presentations we've given the feasibility report the preliminary report on pavement on the pavement for the overall Township is located on the website um if you follow the if you look at the website there's a scrolling screen in green there and when it gets to Township projects click on that and you'll find you can navigate your way to the 2019 projects or the overall pavement um program um when construction does occur there will be a newsletter that will provide contact information emergency contact information preliminary schedule of the contractor and as much information as we can communicate ahead of time um to you about the project um of course as a project is occurring we'll have an inspector out there and if there's individual concerns uh for property um individual questions um that person's name will be on the on the newsletter and you can contact them to set up a meeting so the steps tonight um the next steps are to open the public hearing and take take your feedback take your comments and then the board would deliberate and decide whether to order the Improvement um tonight an unanimous vote is needed um all three need to vote in favor of it to order the project so that concludes my presentation Mr chair and I'd be happy to answer any questions either now or when when people have have them all right well at this time does the board have any questions no all right hearing none then I would look for a motion to open up the public comment portion I'll move to open the public comment portion second motion made second all in favor say I I I I all right folks like I said said if you got any comments or questions for Larry on the mic there your name and address just so we keep a record of anybody who's got some concerns yeah Tom 5878 hob Lane um on the assessment summary slide can you get back to that where the 3,000 preliminary assessment was thought about and then the last meeting we had a discussion about hoby Lane is just slightly over 3,000 per home or per unit the other ones are almost twice so why would everyone pay 3,000 wouldn't it be more pro rated so that was the question last time that hopefully it percolated up yes so certainly it would be a board decision to um change that perhaps there is a little less work with hobi Lane as it's adill and overlay but overall um the improvements are similar it's a it's an overlay um they are the board is um reducing the amount for all Cate all properties but um it's uh it's really up to the board if they if they chose to reduce that but again the town board doesn't need to make that decision tonight we can get bids we can evaluate what um the costs are are really coming in at and then they can make that decision in in October and it all depends too now this time of the year uh I know everybody's busy so when when we do finally get the bid so we can kind of see where we're getting we're going to have a better handle on this assessment process yeah it was thought you know that to give everybody in the audience an at least an idea of what we're looking at as a global assessment for property some might be different we haven't determined that yet that's syvia has 779 Gil fill in court um couple of questions for you our little court is just a stub of a street there only 12 homes on it so it gets very little traffic and it is in evidently Dire Straits because not only Mill and overlay but now a rebuild which I just heard for the first time tonight after looking at these materials before earlier this winter I saw materials where it said it was going to be Mill and overlay now if there's not thick enough base to do the mill and overlay would that be a indication that it wasn't built properly to start with well the the basee beneath the pavement is is is solid it's it's pretty thick I looked at that again after the the meeting last week um what is odd about gilin is they only pave 2 in at least in the quarter we took um when we when we get into it if we if we do another we get into to doing the pavement removal and we find that there is more pavement maybe it will go back to a millon overlay but based on the the coring information we have it was a 2 in so um Township standard is 3 to 3 and a half Ines of payment so you can do a mill in overlay in the future in this case it only added a 2 in in this area at least which I understand and I wouldn't want you to do a Mill and overlay if it's not done correctly but that doesn't answer my question as wasn't done correctly to start with yeah I don't know what the factors were involved with why it was two in it doesn't seem normal to do that and none of the board were there then Dale wasn't there then I know a lot of the people weren't there then but that doesn't lay our fears that when that developer was allowed to do this and I don't know when the developer does a section like that who does the streets does the developer pay for it and the city the township do it and hire the contractor and the inspector to see that it's done correctly and that the specs are correct mm yeah so the normal process now and I don't know what the process was back then is is that the developer um would pay for the improvements the township would hire the contractor and inspect does anybody know what happened then because that question was asked last week I know well Larry how many how many core samples were taken there was one core sample taken on so it maybe it's possible just that one spot for some reason got was too thin well true true but still then that shouldn't it shouldn't be done Mill and overlay even if there's a small area because then it's going to deteriorate my our a problem is in our area is that those streets have been deteriorating rapidly over the first 10 12 years of their life and up until a couple years ago when uh uh the town came and did a really great job of repairing and did a nice roll out and such of repairing they were in terrible Straits now they're not too bad but we've always felt that they weren't done correctly because the way they looked so bad and that they looked like they were falling apart yeah it would be nice if somebody would go back and dig out historical information so that history doesn't repeat itself that's the way we prevent M mistakes happening if we know what history is another another thing I want to add is um we just replaced all our concrete streets in the association of of driveways thank you and we when we started that project we contacted the township asking about the the uh cracked uh gutters and we suggested that maybe the company that was doing our side our driveways could do that repair then to save damaging our our driveways later it wasn't done and now we have brand new driveways that were just done last summer and you're going to come in and rip up the street and we're afraid for our costly new driveways well that's unfortunate um any any driveways that are impacted by curb removal and replacement would be saw cut and repaired um but you do have with would have a seam in that drive are they concrete or they concrete concrete okay one year old okay this were not even old not even a whole year cuz they were just done last summer and when when you say that was unfortunate that does not make us feel real good well it I it's better that it's concrete actually because um you know I the look will match better than having a seam and a pinous driver it still won't match I you didn't make that decision and it's unfortunate that it was made that way but just so that everybody understands that all these actions have consequences and and we we're supposed to be happy homeowners and don't get me wrong I'm a very big proponent of the township and try to support them as much as I can but there are a few things that have irritated me over the years thank you I would ask maybe U Dale do you know can a licensed concrete even replace our curban gutter or is that something it's not allowed in the township usually in a RightWay like that the township has to do any repairs or replacement on the driveways they they can permit with the uh with the town on the replacement which I'm assuming the contractor did but I mean they wouldn't have the they give them the right to replace the curve of gutter at the same time or is that something Township would be required that's not what we were asking we were asking no but you were asking when they did the driveway if they could have done the curb what we were asking is when they did the driveway with the township not hire them to fix any broken curb and gut that that's what we were asking it would be just another contractor make a difference if it's the contract of the now or the contract I I understand okay thanks Dale all right any other questions comments going ones oh my name is Larry waldock and I live at 2597 Parkview Drive and I'm here just to uh say that I think a good job has been done in planning this uh procedure for for our road I don't know anything about the rest of them um and I'm just extremely anxious to see it go through and fix our road with the way Larry poppler has described that they're going to do so I just wanted to make that statement well the board appreciates that because there's a lot of work that went into this whole process and we're this is our first year of implementing a whole new pretty much a whole new uh uh scheme for the township so to try to stay ahead of all this stuff so yeah we appreciate it though okay well we certainly appreciate appreciate what you're doing and what Larry is doing too so thank you thank you all right anyone else last chance all right I guess I would be looking for a motion to close public hearing I'll move to close the public portion of the hearing I'll second that all in favor say I I all right at this point if there's no other questions of the board there any any other comments um I would be looking for a motion to approve the resolution ordering Improvement 2019-3 now I'll move based on tonight's neighborhood meeting and feedback the town engineer and staff review and recommendations adopt the resolution ordering improvements of 2019-3 motion's been made I'll second that any further discussion all in favor say I I I all opposed that's an unanimous decision so we're moving on item number six we have no new business number seven we have no added agenda uh item number eight is open time if anybody has any other other comments or questions concerning Township business that would be a time to ask hearing none item number nine I need a motion to receive agenda materials and supplements I'll move to receive a genda materials and supplements a second I'll second that motion made in second all in favor say I I I all oppos that motion also carries item number 10 I need a motion to adjourn I'll move to adjourn I'll second that all in favor say I I I I we are adjourned at 704 thanks folks [Music] now