foreign good afternoon everyone it is now 5 30. uh this is the Burnsville city council work session for Tuesday September 3rd 13th and we are now called to order our work sessions are informal and we go straight to our agenda item but I also want everyone to know that you can join us via Zoom or you can also join us online at burnsvillemn.gov meetings or Comcast channel 16 or 859 and on Zoom you can join us on zoom.us slash join and all of the information about our meetings are on our webpage in the council agenda packet portal of the of the webpage so with that uh Greg the first item on the agenda is the continuation of our 2023 budget and proposed 23 property tax levy review absolutely our city manager Greg Lindbergh mayor thank you council members uh tonight we will continue the discussion that we left off uh just a few weeks back you would ask several questions about my recommended budget and the alternative Levy pads that we had provided for you Our intention tonight uh is to take you through some answers to those questions and give you all space to to ask additional questions and certainly have conversations about the 2023 budget um just by way of a reminder a couple of things most importantly I'd like to welcome Jenny Rhodey back uh as our Chief Financial Officer this is Jenny's first formal budget meeting back with us so Jenny welcome I'm glad to have you here um secondly uh uh State Statute requires you to set a Max tax uh so you're a levy that uh that you can bring down but that you can't exceed by the end of September you're scheduled at your September 20th city council meeting uh to to take that action so tonight's conversation will then lead staff to prepare for that Max tax decision at your September 20th meeting just a few days down the road and with that I will turn the presentation over to Dan and Jenny Dan and welcome Jenny and hello Dan you know you're not you're taking this all the way through yeah mayor members of the council happy to do it uh glad to be working with Jenny and I can say that I've been here since about 9 30 this morning so I am still poking around City Hall from time to time but as you may see in the agenda packet it does now say senior Financial specialist Ellers and no longer interim Chief Financial Officer so yes I did notice that so something to keep in mind but I'm I'm here to help as requested by the council and the city manager this evening as discussed we'll be talking about the proposed 2023 budget and financial plan much like we've begun in the past just a reminder we're basically continuing our discussion from a series of meetings at the council and this group has had over the last year it began really all the way back in January with the all-day work session and we've had a five meetings since then as recently as just in August on the 23rd discussing the total proposed 2023 budget and as a city manager mentioned there were a handful of questions that came out of that presentation and we're here this evening to discuss some of those questions with you and then as mentioned on the slide ultimately receive guidance from the council regarding the proposed or maximum property tax levy for taxes payable in 2023. and so a few things that we'll touch on today first will just be the Economic Development Authority fund review and answering some additional questions that the council posed at the previous budget work session will close with a discussion or review of the property tax levy and then of course there are some recommendations Eda fund and the property tax levy itself just by way of reminder we did touch on the handful of meetings that the council has had to date but there are a few other stops along the way as you can see and as a city manager mentioned on September 20th the council will be asked to adopt the proposed budget and also the property tax levy for both the city and the Eda so we are hopeful to get some formal feedback from the council this evening and then there is some time still set aside in November for the council to continue the budget discussion if needed likely there would be at least one more meeting because we do still have to talk to the council about utility rates and we do have a pending utility rate study related to that and then at the end of this year on December 6th you'll conduct the truth in taxation hearing just by way of reminder when they're we're having some meetings earlier today there is a revised truth and Taxation reporting process this year where the city has to submit budget information that will go out to everyone that owns a property within Burnsville proper so a little extra work to do in the budget process from a reporting standpoint TNT so jumping right into the Eda fund and just by way of reminder some of these slides may seem familiar to the group we did discuss some of the Eda items at a previous budget work session and some of the questions posed by the council touched on those previous topics so we tried to pull that information forward as needed so just by way of reminder both for the council and really the more the public generally why does the city really have an Eda there's a handful of functions advancing job creation building and maintaining housing you do have a handful of programs that we'll talk about in a little bit that are related to that topic enhancing certain Community amenities you may recall and Jenny mentioned way back when even talking about Monument signs and things of those nature influencing development activities the council has used some of its development prerogative in the past with Tif districts to support Redevelopment removing and remediating blight and supporting the property tax base really providing tools and incentives and programs to support and protect the valuation of the community's assets particularly as it relates to property taxes really put together it is designed to enhance develop maintain and make the community more attractive the council has been uh in this capacity as The Economic Development Authority really involved in a number of strategic planning efforts over the last what are now the better part of three decades you may remember in the 2000s The Heart of the City effort the creation of the Minnesota River quadrant every 10 years or so you're required to go through a comprehensive planning effort and those certainly inform the activities of The Economic Development Authority and then in the 2010s you took some of those efforts a step further and created your Economic Development and Redevelopment strategic plan your Center Village vision and then of course recently the council adopted a new set of strategic priorities and at the all-day work session earlier this year you reaffirmed and we'll say made some tweaks to those and so those are also included in our discussion and then it's worth noting that in 2023 the Eda is scheduled actually to do an update of the Eda strategic plan and so there will be an opportunity following even this budget cycle for the Council to have more discussions about some of the programs policies procedures that will then be used to inform Eda Financial activities in future years so at the previous work session there was some discussion about what is the history of the Eda fund looked like and this is 15 years of History plus the current proposed budget for a total of 16. it's worth noting that between 2008 and 2022 Eda raised approximately 11.5 million dollars in funding and expended about 13.5 million so over the 15-year period the Eda has actually decreased its fund balance by about 1.972 million dollars or an average of about a hundred and thirty one thousand each year in fact you can see on the slide the black line represents changes in fund balance and over the 15 years that are covered in the window the Eda is actually expended fund balance in 12 of them one year the one contribution to fund balance was about twenty two hundred dollars so just a very minor contribution and the other two years those contributions were actually supported by transfers from other funds in 2008 and 2012 from the general fund and infrastructure excuse me Improvement construction fund respectively so generally there has been a very planned and purposeful period of time where the city has spent down Eda fund balances on various policies programs and procedures it's worth noting as well that over the history of the Eda fund it has supported ftes and then not supported fmes and then supported some combination of ftes you may recall in I believe 2019 ftes were removed from the EPA fund and now there's no longer any additional support for staff and fund itself it's worth noting that per the 2022 budget and the and the current financial plan the city is operating under if this spend down and fund balance were to continue by 2024 the funds reserves would actually dip to about 68 thousand dollars uh it would rebound slightly by the end of the five-year planning window to about 239 000 but it is worth noting that ultimately an economic development world two hundred and forty thousand dollars is not a lot of money to accomplish Economic Development programs and we'll talk about the price tag of some of those things in just a few slides uh the one thing I would note when you look at the slide there are of course two years that are outliers in terms of revenues and expenditures in 19 and 2019 represents some elf Grant activities and then 20 were of course the business assistance grants that were provided by the Eda which were supported by the cares Act posed in 2023 there were some questions at the previous meeting about what exactly are all of the monies that are currently budgeted for the Eda fund supporting in the next fiscal year um there are a number of initiatives we've tried to condense them for the presentation tonight the balance of them are in so-called Professional Services and you're probably already asking what is in the 568 thousand dollars so just for the council's benefit about a hundred thousand dollars for Senator Center Village design guidelines these are similar to some of the design guidelines that will be that were developed for Heart of the City for that particular area 100 000 potentially for his additional Consulting needs for freeway landfill 100 000 for marketing Consulting these are for things like media buys on behalf of the city that you you are partially funding a hundred thousand dollars for your revolving residential Loan program and then there's some additional monies set aside for economic development analysis and Consulting and then also some money for Tiff Administration so really a lot of one-time uses are currently in the current expenditures but there are reoccurring costs especially as it relates to marketing Consulting and but 10 essentially the residential revolving Loan program this is admittedly something of a busy slide but I thought it was a nice way to capture the programs that have been adopted by the Eda and or city council to date there are five in total two things I would note the first the renovation grant program and the site assembly and land acquisition programs are currently unfunded in 2018 the city council and Eda adopted these policies but to date has not appropriated any funds to support them it's also worth noting that right now the Home Improvement grant program and the senior home improvement loan program both are relying on the Eda fund and there's two hundred thousand dollars set aside for them one hundred thousand dollars from the previous fiscal year and one hundred thousand dollars from this fiscal year uh basically uh supported by a carryover I did some math just for the council's benefit given the amount of the available funding uh and if we were to assume ten thousand dollars uh per loan the city could only support or the Eda rather could only provide loans to point zero eight percent of all households in Burnsville so really given the loan sizes and the needs that we see in the community and what we understand the state of the housing stock to be the two hundred thousand dollars that's currently appropriated is simply insufficient to support the demand that we understand to be in the community um just because I thought it was fun and I already shared this with Greg earlier today if you did if you extrapolated the math a little bit more if the Eda provided a loan to every household in the city at that rate it would take approximately 1195 years for the city to provide funding or support to on a residential basis granted not everyone would need that kind of assistance and support but I think it's just a good way to demonstrate the the amount of money vis-a-vis the number of households that are in the organ that are in the community that could potentially benefit from these types of programs um additionally and to tie back to the 2023 update of the Eda plan it's worth noting that the Community Development Department did provide a list of 19 additional programs that could be considered by the Eda and city council to support Economic Development activities in some way shape or form these are things like first-time homebuyer programs where you would provide down payment assistance to people that did counseling and are buying their first home find Gap financing for developers business incubation support for transitional housing and something I think would be of interest to many people in the community application assistance for programs so providing Consulting and support for when someone needs to come in and let's say fill out an SBA loan application or apply for a deed Grant there'd be resources available at the city these are just a smattering of ideas and of course as as part of the Strategic Plan update the council will be presented with any number of possible new strategic initiatives it could undertake but as you can see from this slide in the amount of available funding there is not money available for two existing programs and there certainly would not be money available for any additional programs that would be beneficial for the community and the ones that are funded are underfunded at this point given what we understand the size of the community to be and the need that would be present lastly I would just note that code cache is actually a general fund program and it's supported by a general fund appropriation a general fund carryover and then of course the city's friends at the Lions Club have also provided a ten thousand dollar match for that program as well so there is seventy thousand dollars available and hopefully in the overtime there will be more general fund Appropriations for the code cash program so when you look at some of the programs especially as it relates to the revolving loan and site acquisition programs the city and the Eda really do lack the funding at this point in time to support the additional costs that would be created by those programs right now the eda's fund balances are relatively low vis-a-vis the cost of the programs and we do know from our conversation we have the council about one-time funding sources that there's only about nine hundred ninety thousand dollars available into fund number two and we have talked in the past with the council about using those monies for a revolving residential Loan program but generally when we look at other communities of similar size and you always have to be somewhat cautious with comparing communities because everybody finances things different everybody's housing stock is different everybody's strategic priorities are different but when we look across different organizations we see generally to have a meaningful residential Loan program you would need somewhere in the five million dollar Mark not necessarily 5 million on the number something more something less again depending on what the Eda felt appropriate technical assistance like we talked about providing things like um assistance to homeowners for like renovation projects those can be costly if you either use staff or have a consultancy help you and then the real X Factor on this slide are the commercial industrial projects and programs they can be extraordinarily expensive depending on how involved the city and Eda become and really how big the projects are there are some projects that of course in terms of valuation sometimes stretch into the tens of millions or even 100 plus million dollars so if you wanted to the Eva really wanted to be involved on a on a helping rehab commercial industrial Properties or even acquiring property much like the grant program already adopted by the Eda suggests you would have rather large outlays to acquire individual Parcels to create larger tracks of land to eventually then package for a Redevelopment activity or potentially public purpose whatever was deemed in the best interest of the city by the Eda and the city council at that time also it's worth noting with property acquisition sometimes those lands can be tied up for years meaning you may buy a certain piece of property buy another piece of property buy another piece of property and it could be a decade before you assemble the appropriate type types of parcels to move forward with a certain type of development the other thing that I would note too is at this point in time under the 2022 budget and finance plan if the fund balances do dip down to something like 68 000 in 2024 the city would not have a ready-made funding source to match any type of grants that would be available from other levels of government so for example deed provides a Redevelopment Grant they typically require a 50 match on that and you would not have a ready-made funding source even to take advantage of monies that were available from other levels of government [Music] foreign so you've seen this slide before but again just to inform some of the discussion from the previous slide about the amount of monies that would be needed you can see here some of burnsville's peer communities and also some smaller communities as you can see have significant Economic Development balances we looked at their eda's their hras and their Port Authorities it's worth noting these are different statutory mechanisms that exist in law but generally they have same or similar Redevelopment and economic development Powers we also did exclude any tip District balances for these amounts but it's worth noting in Bloomington for example they actually have about 80 million dollars in pre-1990 TIF district monies that can generally be used for any Economic Development activities so as you can see many of your peer communities and even in the case of Fridley a community half your size they have significant resources available to Aid help and support any type of Economic Development activities that the city in there depending on their situation Eva HRA Port Authority may be interested in advancing you can also see in many situations uh except for in a couple like Edina for example the levees uh that are certified by those various taxing jurisdictions are significantly higher than what is currently in Burnsville and in some situations I would note for example in St Louis Park they have both an Eda and an HRA and they max out both of those levees to support their Redevelopment activities foreign so you have seen this slide before too I believe I characterized it as a rocket ship to the Moon uh but as you can see right now under the current recommendation provided by staff and the city manager we are assuming a seven hundred and two thousand dollar increase in the levy or 236 percent compared to the previous year it's part of a multiple year effort for the city to reach the statutory maximum under the current proposal there'd be a 250 000 increase in both 24 and 25 followed by another estimated increase of about three hundred and thirty two thousand dollars in 2026 I stress estimated in that particular number because the statutory maximum for the Eda Levy is a function of the estimated market value of the community and so we won't know what the statutory maximum is year over year until we actually get the previous year's estimated market value but if we make some assumptions based on the information we recently received from Dakota County we think around one point eight seven and 5 million would be about the statutory maximum that would be levied by 2026. to put this number in perspective though if we change the scale and think about some of the potential Redevelopment activities that could occur and some of the things that we talked about on previous slides for example if the city were to attempt to acquire a shopping center we do know that there was one recently in town that sold for 17 million dollars or if you're interested in buying a strip mall we actually checked with some folks at Ellers and looked at what is the kind of average going price for a kind of typical strip mall and you're looking at three to five million dollars in acquisition costs if the Eda and city council were so inclined and as we talked about in a previous slide if the council were to have really a fully realized robust Loan program you would be talking about really 10 million dollars in costs revolving against some of those programs will create revenues by virtue of their interest income but when we look at the amount of money that is being proposed and with regard to the statutory maximum and some of the costs that could be created by Economic Development activities quite candidly even at the end of 2027 the city and the Eda would only have enough money to accomplish one strip mall project and that's juxtaposed against your peer communities on the previous slide that will be using their resources and potentially accumulating more resources to attract retain and enhance their their Economic Development Vision however they see it be that residential commercial industrial uh what have you um it's worth noting that under the current plan the city would only um accumulate that enough unbalance for the one project and the one thing I do want to stress is we are assuming that the in this analysis that the city council and the Eda do not bring on any additional programming so right now we are holding the current expenditures kind of consistent with the previous Five-Year Plan if the Eda were let's say fund some of those underfunded programs or fund the programs that currently have no funding we would imagine current expenditures to come up a little bit and that black line would level off because you would be starting to put additional monies into some of those programs let's say another five hundred thousand dollars into your residential revolving loan funds so there are things that can change between what is being proposed this evening and most likely the discussion that would happen in 2023 is a part of the Eda strategic planning efforts and any additional monies that you wanted to allocate towards those programs and projects in the uh previous discussion there was some chat about what would happen if different Eda Levy Alternatives were considered and so for the council's consideration this evening as you can see on the top when you're looking at total Levy those are that 12.83 percent that is the levy that would increase year over year to support the current general fund proposal Debt Service fund proposals and the fun and the tax levies related to the capital project funds below that you see various alternatives for the Eda Levy so as you see if it were to remain flat at 297 500 then the year over year change in the levy would be that 12th point three percent as you see in bold the recommendation is to go from 297 500 up to a million that 236 percent in change uh that I mentioned on a previous slide that is what gets you to the 14.53 right now annually the Eda that increase would cost a property owner about 33 dollars a year or about 2.75 a month and just for the council's benefit it's worth noting that the statutory maximum based on the previous years uh estimated market value was it would be about 1.5 for 4 million dollars I think an additional Point here uh Dan uh would be that just in in terms of planned 2023 expenditures what Dan has covered um that puts the Eda fund at about seven hundred thousand dollars worth of planned expenditures so well I wanted to uh the community and the council to see the full array of the impact of the eea fund on the total the total Levy proposal I would also suggest that that you you pay particular note uh to the uh the proposed 2023 column and seven hundred thousand dollars in the 13.81 um just to to give yourself some context that if if that Levy or if the Eda Levy can't support those expenditures there would need to be adjustments in the in the 2020 budget to to accommodate so set another way we need the levy in 2023 to cover that seven hundred thousand dollars in planned expenditures unlike previous years where we've used fund balance essentially to buy down the pressure on those on those programmed expenditures and then the last thing I would just note and as the council's heard of previous work sessions the balance of the million against 700 000 the city manager referenced would then basically be a planned increase in fund balance to allow the Eda to accumulate resources so at some point in time in the future if there is a strip mall a certain program a project there are actually resources available in cash to accomplish whatever the policy prerogative of the body is at that moment I think the most important kind of visual representation of of the reason that I've recommended the budget as I have to the council is going back to that market comparison slide uh where there there was the the six bars representing various communities that that we consider Market comparisons some that we don't but nevertheless um those those fund balances that then allow activities that the council has has unfunded but adopted policies to address things like land acquisition or site assembly um it would the the intention of that funding that three hundred thousand dollars in the million dollar recommended uh Levy uh is intended to start to put Burnsville kind of on the map so to speak in terms of this visual uh in in building a fund balance to then appropriate or take take action um uh as there was opportunities to to redevelop through side assembly through property acquisition whatever the whatever the council's prerogative might be at the time okay so much like the previous presentation the recommendation of staff is I should say threefold two in particular for next year to increase the Eda property tax levy to a million dollars for taxes payable in 2023 for the reasons mentioned and then just as a reminder we had a discussion about this in the past to authorize the use of those TIF district number two funds to support housing Rehabilitation programs as you may recall from our previous conversation those pre-199 Tiff districts can be used for a variety of purposes and provided that money is revolving through the district you can keep the district open indefinitely you still have to report on it and do some administrative things but it's already made funding source for the underfunded residential loan programs that we discussed in a previous slide and then lastly the kind of Bolt that's not on here that would be something for the council to act on in the future baked into this recommendation is also the idea of taking that Levy up to the statutory maximum by 2026 but again that would be a council and something the council would have to take action on in each subsequent year to keep increasing the levy under the current recommendation by the city manager so the proposed 2023 property tax levy you may recall at the work session on July 19th he reviewed kind of two options to one to help support the organizational analysis and the other one to maintain the property tax rate at that point in time there was some discussion about coming back with Alternatives and we'll talk about what those were in just a couple slides here but just by way of reminder we've been on a little bit of a journey in terms of where the year over year changes and the property tax levy have been way back at the FMP review in March we were talking about 10.9 at the update we whittled it down to 10. the CIP review 8.88 or 8.89 and then based on some of the conversation that we had during the CIP we came back in August in the city manager and staff ultimately recommended the 14.5 followed by the various uh seven point whatever in the out years so just by way of reminder well the original Three Alternatives were the organizational analysis implementation that called for uh Levy increase for next year of 8.88 the levy increased reduction the 14.5 followed by seven point x and then the CIP enhancement actually combined the two and had a 14.5 and then some larger increases for the city to put more money towards capital projects in the out years given some of the cost pressures that we know exist in certain funds the one thing I do want to stress is that each of these Alternatives at this point in time only adjust property tax revenues if the council were to approve the uh what we're calling right now the consensus alternative of 14.5 really that that just increases the amount of Revenue it does not change the expenditures that are currently planned for the proposed 2023 budget it really then informs how the levy is constructed in the out years as the city brings on more expenditures especially as it relates to the organization analysis so put another way these Alternatives depending on which one the council ultimately picks doesn't change at all the expenditure that just changes the revenue component so at the meeting on the 23rd the council expressed a consensus for alternative number two if I could yeah Tara there was a majority yeah that went with that there was not a consensus consensus denotes all agree a majority so a majority that is an important term I'm so happy to characterize it as a majority to be perfectly candid we tried to pick consensus to express that there was a desire to move in a certain direction by a majority perhaps consensus wasn't the term of art that we should have used so we'll be Keen to adjust that moving forward I would say uh just by way of uh pre-introduction we do use consensus a few times in the next couple of slides but we can definitely change that especially before the presentation itself is posted to the website so in the the majority of the city council expressed an interest in alternative number two which we characterized as Levy increase reduction it's worth noting that the proposal over the five years would cost about 727 dollars more than the current property taxes or about 17 and excuse me are about sixty dollars uh more per month uh that is about twenty dollars more than alternative number one which we had coined as the organizational analysis implementation just as a reminder this is a breakdown of the uh Levy increase reduction right now what would happen is the majority or actually all of the of the additional property tax revenue would be assigned to the general fund so it would go up to 37.5 million which is actually a 21 increase compared to the previous year or 15 percent uh closer to 16 actually compared to the overall Levy as you may recall from the presentation related to the general fund what would end up happening over time as the city brought on more ftes related to the organizational analysis that additional Levy would be assigned to those additional costs that is the current proposal it's worth noting that there are this proposal does provide the council with quite a bit of flexibility moving forward especially as it relates to phase three facilities projects but overall you see 14.53 percent in the combination between the increased general fund Levy and the Eda Levy below going from just under 300 000 up to 1 million and then by way of reminder the way we arrived at the 14.5 is we are actually attempting to keep the property tax rate same or similar it's worth noting right now under current assumptions it actually goes down ever so slightly but right now primarily it's worth remembering that the estimated market value of the City compared to the previous year increased about 14.1 percent which then translated into a taxable market value for the city that increased about 14.2 percent and then as you see here in the slide the neck task capacity actually increased just under 17 percent which is the as you notice here the blue the blue bar all the way on the right jumping up uh quite a bit the thing to keep in mind that over the last 12 years including this year the average annual increase was about 4.9 so it really is a historic jump in the net task capacity for the community and it's primarily driven by increasing residential home values and as you'll notice on the next slide if you actually look a couple lines down you see change in percent of the median valued residential Homestead actually went up by 16.6 percent so as you'll note uh on the 19th when we were proposing 8.9 the monthly change would be about right around 12 dollars more and following the discussion and the the expression of the majority of the Council on the 23rd it is now right around 19 or 18.65 basically an increase between the two proposals of about eighty one dollars or six dollars and 75 cents per month the one thing I would stress and I have I think every time I'm sorry to sound like a broken record but these projections are based on estimates that we've received from Dakota County they do update information and we change them accordingly we've changed them a little bit here and there so there may be some some of these numbers may look a little different in some of the percentages moving forward but they just want to make keep that in mind that we make some assumptions in the process so ultimately the alternative favored by the majority of the council has been Incorporated in the proposed 2023 budget it's worth noting and you do have a handout everyone here that talks about some of these things in Greater detail but really the alternative that is currently included in the budget does a handful of things it really does reflect on the Strategic vision and priorities that have been adopted by the council to date and really tries to be planful moving forward on how to bring those online in a fashion that provides a down payment for the organizational analysis without increasing the property tax rate it leaves the council with a tremendous amount of flexibility in future fiscal years as it makes decisions about the organizational analysis and potentially other priorities like facilities projects it maintains all the appropriate fund balances that have been promulgated by the city council and your various policy documents it strengthens the Eda fund and much the ways that we described in the previous slides and perhaps most importantly it helps fund a Vibrant Community by stabilizing those property tax levy changes helping people to have stable predictable year-over-year changes in the property taxes yes we have to get through the 14.5 percent but without that change without increasing the tax rate most of the increase in tax will be attributable to the asset that's actually being taxed the increase in the value on the individual's home and as mentioned a few times in the presentation it costs about eighteen dollars more per month for a median valued residential Homestead property owner so as if the Minnesota property taxes were not complicated enough so just by way of comparison this has changed ever so slightly since you've seen it last a couple cities moved around working on their budgets much like we are and you can see their average actually ticked down from eight percent to 7.9 percent we have heard of a handful of more cities and just for the council's benefit other cities around the metropolitan area St Paul announced a 15 increase Fridley 12.8 percent Savage 11.4 Oakdale at 12.9 and Golden Valley at 11.4 so it's worth noting that while these cities are certainly outside the list of piercings that the council and in the organization normally considers at 14.5 you are in a good num a company of a good number of other cities that are having double-digit increases in the in their property tax levies and I just have to say something since it is a strengths-based organization I came across this uh this graph and if you're interested if you're a Disney fan this is a the color psychology of Disney characters and Jenny pointed out I think very appropriately when we were going over the presentation that the only ones that wound up Pure White are the animals it's what the animals the the Pongo and Duchess from what is it the Aristocats and 101 Dalmatians so keep that in mind like the meme says be the person that your your dog thinks you are so I just happened to cross it and I know the organization talks about a strength-based culture and it's not it's not a perfect analog but I thought it was something very interesting interesting so the last thing I will close with um I just want to say like we've talked about previously and we mentioned in the service inventory budgeting is not about limiting yourself it really is about making the things that excite you possible and I think that the budget that has been presented this evening that has been proposed by the city manager makes good on many of the Strategic priorities plans and aspirations of both the Eda and the city council and it's really my honor to present it and I think that it is full of possibilities and puts the organization in an excellent place to encounter its challenges in the future thank you with that I'd be happy to answer any questions the council may have thank you Dan Greg you have some remarks that you wanted to yeah mayor and Council our team has come together to try to put this uh put this presentation and frankly the last eight months of conversation into a a bit more of a digestible visual so you have a printed copy of this in front of you it really shows the difference between the two Alternatives that we came out of the August uh work session discussion discussing uh with the blue alternative being representative of my proposed Levy and budget recommendation and the green line uh being the alternate the 8.88 alternative also in front of you are some talking points that really capture and summarize uh Dan's presentation this evening and our conversations uh throughout the budget process we'll make sure that this visual is available as part of the timeline at Burnsville mn.gov budget as we as we continue to emphasize the importance of making sure these resources are at the fingertips of our community I have some questions for Dan okay Dan question from Dan K what does the three million in arpa funds equate to and Levy Point drop um ma'am mayor members of the council every one percent is about 410 000 so um would that be three about three three percent change I would have to do the exact math to get you the figure but every one percent is about four hundred thousand yeah yeah and three million in arpa I can uh about 720 over here she's yeah yeah that's math for us real quick happy to have the backup so Bob are you asking councilmember Keely are you asking over the period of time in which those funds have been allocated uh no just by applying the three million in arpa what did it drop our Levy plus seven three if we didn't have the arpa however what was the net difference because we did buy it down last year with 2 million and we have to obviously absorb that this year so of the three million how much was used to absorb that too uh as as as well as what was left that was actually used to buy down the levy because we had to cover the 2 million right and there was inflation against that 2 million that we bought it down last year so it was the whole 3 million essentially absorbed into just covering that 2 million carryover so you also had to cover lost revenues with some of that money yeah I'm only interested in how we absorb the 2 million that we bought it down last year we got the 4.8 I believe because we bought it down with two million but that was one-time money so now that 2 million burden rolls into this year Well it caused the inflation against that 2 million that we bought it down right yeah so councilmember Keely that would go back to the kind of the the varied Alternatives that we talked about in the last budget cycle in in really those those funds uh that cares funds those funds allowed for immediate kind of current year Levy pressure reduction and then were uh were supported by out year kind of stabilization of the levy it actually was a very similar recommendation to the the current recommendation that's in front of you right again the budget is a snapshot in time uh so we're talking about one one period of time so or looking at five years at this point in time in the budget cycle so certainly opened any correction from Jenny or Dan it's a bit of a complicated yeah reality of the three million how much is going to absorb that too and how much is going to try and nip away at not having to have that to carryover right because we're doing three this year and three next year to spend the rest of the arpa funds but we're we have a five-year plan to absorb the impact so each year you know exactly how much is essentially going to buy that down so at the at the fifth year we're we're no longer trying to absorb it and how much is going to pay the carryover right mayor members of the council so the analysis that we could do to answer that question is we would essentially take the budget and we would remove the arpa funds and it would tell us year over year what the change in the levy would have to be to support the same amount of cost uh it would to your point earlier councilman kelia would be at something of a multi-step process for us to answer that question we could certainly do it okay uh as far as what cost pressures are absorbed by the 2 million versus the 3 million that's a more difficult question to answer because so much of it is a function of the expenditures that exist on the essentially the other side of the budget but we could make some approximations about that certainly but yeah I'd like I'd like to know what that five-year forecast is outside you know specifically the the the one-time money that we put to buy down which we're doing again this year and we're doing again next year uh what does that ultimately mean and what is it costing us to carry it over and what is actually going toward of the next six million three million and 3 million to be able to get that fully absorbed over a five-year five-year period because obviously we're just we're sort of like using it to finance ourselves because of that carryover and each year that we do have that carryover we're also faced with the inflationary costs against the 2 million that we bought down last year and then again this year and again next year um yeah mayor members of the console I would just add so under the current proposal in both the ones that are listed in blue and green they factor in both the laps or you know lack of arpa funds at some point in time in the future right and they do have inflationary pressures built into them so right now the current proposal when those funds are no longer available which is really 2025. either the 14.5 followed by the seven some variation on seven would absorb it or the last piece of it as you see here part of the reason in the green that we go from 10.9 to 12.9 is the additional 3 million that comes out that has to be absorbed by other funding sources right so some of that Gap is reflected in the green proposal we are able to smooth out more with the 14.5 yeah just put very simply because of the power of compounding yeah we're absorbing it faster because we're taking another two and a half million out of the taxpayers to yeah absorb it along with everything else but really that's a big chunk of it yeah mayor members of the council and then we are compounding on that 2.3 million with the sevens thereafter yeah yeah you know I would also add that we would want to be careful in that analysis not to not to overlook in The 14.53 Proposal that that that that path allows us to uh more specifically plan for the the full implementation of the organizational analysis as the council adopts future budgets with those assumptions so the apples to oranges comparison might be a bit dangerous as we as we try to model exactly dollar for dollar or percent year-over-year property tax levy increase based on previous applications of uh of how those federal funds have been used essentially to buy down previous or current year Levy right ultimately it's just the revenue side yeah that's just it's a revenue I think it's a cross side plan in place it's just a donation to the revenue side that helps pay for it if you just leave that structure that you referred to in place from the anticipated expense side I'm really trying to focus in on how much is used you know has to be used to absorb it and pay the inflation related to it right because when you when you as we've learned when you take it down a year it costs more to pay it back um it's like a lot of things that have gone up what inflationary forecast did you build into this given the most recent over eight percent inflation report in the economy um yeah mayor members of the council we used a a handful of assumptions uh not necessarily just a blanket let's say eight percent or something like that in the first regard we allowed departments as best they could to adjust their budgets accordingly based on the information that they were receiving it wasn't necessarily as a function of you're only getting three percent five percent eight percent but then we did make some assumptions for major cost drivers primarily as it relates to wages and benefits so we were assuming three percent on wages which is about 75 percent I should say Personnel Services are 75 percent of the cost of the general fund so General inflationary pressures aren't as Jermaine for the general fund and then we were assuming if I recall correctly uh five percent for uh benefits because the city had a rate lock as a part of some changes that it made in a previous year we had also assumed uh again if memory serves 10 percent year over year for workers comp insurance based information we were receiving from the league of Minnesota cities in addition to some other items as a part of it though and because of inflationary pressures the fee schedule uh all discretionary fees and there's a forthcoming memo to the city council on this were adjusted by three percent in recognition of the fact that there are larger than usual inflationary pressures and some fees had not been adjusted in some time and so we wanted to make sure that fee payers were not being subsidized by property taxpayers and when we're considering some of those inflationary structures so we made it's kind of a long wandering answer to your question but we made a series of assumptions across different parts of the budget both on the revenue and expenditure side we didn't necessarily take just a three percent on everything or something to that effect and was that these the five percent number that I it's all related to by charges for services it was a five percent is that being adjusted up Madam mayor members of the council so that five percent is twofold one is changes in the assumptions based on just the amount of Revenue that may be provided by the fees and then also the three percent adjustment on discretionary fees demand exists for code cash based on how long code cash has been out there do we have any kind of track record on what the demand is when we talk about the funding side but we're not really talking about well what's the demand surfacing you know what what are we trying to fund in other words um mayor members of the council I would have to defer to my colleagues in Community Development for some information on whatever they are they're hearing from the community with respect to that particular program BJ do you remember the council I don't have that offhand I think under code cash yeah I mean when we're talking about funding certain things yeah I think we need to understand what it is that we're trying to fund like what's the demand I don't want to just go well we think we need it we think we need to throw more money at it well what's the real demand side yeah so we either know that we're adequately funding it or inadequately funding it but at least we know exactly what it is from Advanced and I know a lot of those programs are new that's why I was asking the question do we have any data uh on what the demand has been since they were launched councilmember Healey it's a great question uh we're fairly new into that and I've again I would defer to BJ we would have to go back to staff to to see uh to even see if we could answer the question of whether or not we have enough data to answer the question yeah so it may be too preliminary but we have to get a sense and I'm sure there's been hopefully been some activity I would just add that I would consider it almost a pilot at this point it's pretty restrictive program works and I think there's a lot of opportunities in the future but I would agree we can dig into more and support maybe it's maybe it's just a preliminary pilot program report of what's the activity so far same for the Home Remodeling and for the commercial if if that has gotten off the ground yet as a pilot if there's been any inquiries or applicants uh and what the requirements were the requests um on the issue of Eda do we have examples from our comparable cities of what types of projects they've been using their Eda funds for clearly we are uh not sitting on anywhere from eight to fifty million or 25 or 30 million like some of those other comparable cities then my guess is those fund balances didn't just grow in recent years that that's been sizable for quite some time so there's probably a lot of great stories to tell with what those cities have done in their Eda programs that I think to understand more about demand because I think we can learn from what their actual expenditures are to to in some ways forecast what our demand might be if we get to a fund balance that's bigger we know there's a strip center out there that we would like to redevelop we know that there's a potentially a mall out there that might need redevelop but um and they're very specific and they have very specific price tags on them but there's probably a lot of other Eda expenditure examples from those cities that I think we can we can get an idea as to if we're going to get into this what types of things are we going to likely see come at us uh and there's there's some older cities in that list that can definitely give us some good information yeah and I can tell you uh and probably Greg you can also attest to this when city manager at that time former city manager [Music] Harmony came in and talked to us from St Louis Park and how they used that in purchasing property and that's how they did all of the Redevelopment on the west side and so they did a lot of that Edina also bought property and I'm thinking Eden Prairie also might have done some of that to that's a good high level number like of the last let's say you go back and say give us a five-year snapshot at a high level what percent of all the money you spent was land acquisition versus uh cell prep versus um you know some other like commercial investment where you weren't acquiring the property of the land but you were assisting a development in some way you know maybe a partner at the table well Bloomington is doing a whole lot of stuff right now around the around the shopping center the Mall of America are they building on the east side for their garbage huh are they building a dump for their own garbage no yeah no they're building a whole lot of wonderful stuff yeah um you know I was going through because when uh economic Community Development did there they did talk about the cold cash and the drivers around that and I think if I remember correctly um there's demand but uh we don't have much in that fund so Chief if you can further look into it because I I remember and I'm just trying because I have some notes but I didn't uh I don't want to misspeak so I'd rather I'd rather get it right yeah yeah than try to remember so I I know there's been a few applicants but I I don't know the the numbers and I again I don't want to misspeak to that so I'll definitely follow up on that yeah coming from last year and then up to maybe a total of 70 000 including this year so it would be the front balance for the code cash code thing for code cash management rooms the council again I don't want to misspeak yes the general estimate is around sixty thousand dollars total again in terms of program performance I want to go back to our staff and those conversations I I will make sure that BJ and I follow up with you the other angle of course is if we have money there and um we are trying to Market it and communicate to the community and if if there's just a dribble of demand then is it a lack of demand or is it a lack of you know people knowing uh that the opportunity is there so you really have to put our marketing hats on it and Community you got to communicate you got to put a little money behind the marketing to actually let people know that the opportunity exists or it might end up be a lacket we might read it as well there doesn't seem to be a lot of demand out there when in fact a lot of people would have taken advantage of they knew about it right so a lot of different things certainly to your point council member Achilles member of the council I absolutely from a marketing perspective and I think that that that's an important factor I also think that the program marketed effectively and communicated effectively to the Right audience is an important component of maintaining our naturally occurring affordable housing right so the the the strategies that that program plays into I think are significant on the residential side so we can certainly do more assessment there and be able to deliver to you and to the the community what are the results along with the demand I will also say in terms of um the market comparison of other cities and Eda fund uses uh I I kind of made the game time decision tonight that our Eda staff did put together a list of about 19 different potential uses uh specific to Burnsville unique to our needs I also think an important component of that is an update to your Economic Development strategic plan so one of the the first things that I'll ask our new community directors do is to engage in that process I would also suggest that that process will need some very robust Community engagement to to inform those results I think that vision and bringing that Vision to life is really important as we think about the potential uses for those funds now and into the future we certainly can do some market analysis BJ and I'll work on that with our team to to kind of address what's happening in the market alongside parallel to putting together a plan to put in front of the Council of of how will we Vision out and update our strategic Direction in order to kind of best reflect the needs of of the community as well as we have those conversations we may we we made a lot of those decisions based on what we see what we hear you know hey we there's a need out there but we never really measured how much desire is out there we may see properties that need Improvement and need reinvestment but the property owner has to desire to do it to take advantage of these and and I don't know if we've ever ascertained that desire equating into a demand yeah I would say the demand as well as measuring the results what what are the perf what is the performance of the program alongside parallel to the demand that exists within the community so certainly we can do it uh we can do more work and better work to to be able to deliver those answers they're very good questions I say that because I prefer throwing more money at a program that has yet to prove the demand and the need and the desire yeah you know and I I can always go back to um The Heart of the City where there was a demand because we had all of that and uh the AAA property came up for sale and we were able to purchase it and look at what it has yielded the other there is demand down in the Minnesota River quadrant but we didn't have anything to purchase any of the land down in that area one is the assholeford but we were able to use Tiff money to um to do the soils correction I'm seeing Regina nodding her head because we looked at that if you remember we could have bought that and done so much with it if you remember we were asked to buy it so that a minor league baseball team could be down there do you all remember this oh yeah and we didn't have the money to do it and there was no property down in that area so I can go back and there is history that will allow us to understand opportunities that we missed because we didn't have the resources to do what we needed to do it just so happened with The Heart of the City we had some money into funding that we used to help purchase for that because it was Economic Development uh to purchase the AAA building there's a lot of opportunities but we don't have anything in our Economic Development Fund to do any of that and you were very much involved in that whole whole thing with regard to the minor league baseball team and they and there was a group that wanted to do that and Garrett is also nodding I mean Regina's we there are things that we just had to let go because we didn't have the the financial resources well and if I don't I didn't plan on bringing this up tonight but on the tail end of that I think I want to plant the seed I think we need to change our approach and I wish we had done this back when we sold the AAA property because we end up um selling a property we help a development happen and we're not necessarily getting anything out on the other end and so I think what my change in thought or the seed I want to plant is I think we need to borrow the model of really today's a lot of things in today's economy where the the equity owner instead of just selling out right takes um not so much an equity share but an agreement on a revenue split so if we sell a property and it's builded upon and then they flip it in the case of Raven and score many many millions of dollars why didn't the city we should have got the opportunity to get a piece of those benefits because we ultimately sold that land at just yeah it cost and they took the risk and built it I totally get it but we helped them get there so if it didn't sell for many years and there wasn't a big deal we don't we wouldn't see the benefit of it but if it does which many of them are I think the city has been shortchanged on the benefit of that we're basically enabling the private sector to to greatly profit off of our work and our support I'm so glad you're saying things like that and this is this is a little bit back to my original position why I don't believe the City or you know governments should be getting into the private sector business is because we don't end up getting the benefit on the other end and so where we have to when it passes the butt for test if the butt for test is passed and we get involved and there's a huge payoff down the road you know we should get it now we do with Tiff right we we do get it back in Tiff but there's other projects where it's not Tiff and we do we use elf Grant funds which was really our money coming back from Dakota County for us to use right um and or the AAA is a great example where we've we've basically um set up the private sector to make a ginormous profit and the city didn't get anything out of it other than the property taxes which we appreciate but I think there's more to it than that and I agree think of it as the the movie stars of today they don't they take a smaller salary on the front end and they take a percentage of the gross so they're taking the risk along with the movie producers and the directors and the sponsors that's really the role I think the city could approach that in is where is our potential payback beyond the property taxes when in fact we've set the stage for potentially not every time a large profit to be made and though that might be a question for legal whether we can even do this yeah I just think there's a few things that we did too well and I think that we we should well we should really think about the asset wealth of the of the community with the maven project because I've had some some discussions with other folks in our community who know very well how this stuff happens and they ask the same not the question but thoughts that you articulated tonight because maven did that and in three years they flipped it was last night I thought it was quicker than it like we said like a year ago Regina was it two or three years yeah see yeah and did we get any anything from that and we didn't I said it's not what we have done in the past with regard to it they said well you have to think differently which is exactly what you're talking about and if it's a purely private sector transaction we have nothing to do with it but when we're putting money like money in it yeah I think the deal has to be struck where the city gets a little better payout than just future property taxes many years down the road even if Tiff is involved there's still we still are waiting multiple years before we get it back because right now look at rise rise is not what one year in and they flipped it yeah that's another one and huge they got 76 million dollars more than the development price councilmember Keely Madam mayor members of the council this conversation is a good one yeah but it's not getting us to where we need to be and I would say it's a reflective of the recommendation that I put in front of you yeah the the first step in the city becoming an active and strategic player in this area is for us to to to build a fund to be a player yeah um and I would say that in my experience Limited at best we have we have experts in our organization we have a new community development director who's coming in and my hope is that we not only will be more strategic tomorrow than we are today but we'll also be creative about Solutions just like that I mean councilmember Keely what you're describing um uh I can think of projects that that I've been involved with uh where where the city absolutely uh has has a stake and a vested interest and and goes out for for proposal and works deals to to accomplish not only Community vibrancy and economic development but also is ensuring its financial position into the future so those are those are certainly strategies and conversations that we should be having more of and I would expect that that we would moving into the future um because being strategic in in that regard I think is very important when you start thinking about the investment of public funds or the community's dollars in being an active part of Redevelopment of of a community for our own purpose previously I would be excited about that kind of discussion previously my comments have been as long as we are made whole in other words if we have to put a million into it we need to get our million back um I think it's more than that that's that's just a baseline we have to get our the taxpayers investment back but not necessarily taking 20 years to do it or 15. yeah so just to close out that tonight Egan is looking uh at the Metcalf Park oh yeah with the potential Redevelopment oh it's beautiful um Hugo was kind enough because after our meeting with uh Dr battle uh went into the Eagan portal and grabbed it and so I was able to take a look at it but it's a comprehensive plan and Egan is reviewing it right now is it does it also include the portion that's on no this is just but this is where the the point of my remarks is that if we had the resources positions us in a way that we could have acquired that peace members of the council to the mayor to the mayor's Point information from a meeting today I haven't had time yet to package that to communicate to uh to all of you that there is a proposal uh in front of the Eagan city council um uh I was not aware until I was informed by the school district today that that in fact was the case so uh we will package that information together and get it to all of you uh just as as soon as possible uh by way of information I know the last time that I provided you an update in one of my emails we had a timeline that was different in terms of eagan's discussion on that property so apologies that we didn't have that information ahead of this morning and I'll make sure that you have the the details of the development that's being proposed we were just made aware of it by uh Dr battle today okay members of the council our staff needs our Direction with regard to the max tax for next week the 20th um our city manager and we've gotten all of the information with regards to the 14.5 and the 8.9 and if there are any other questions or comments to be made this is the time to do that the 14.5 stabilizes us into the future to 2004 2025 and 2026 the other will be at this table debating double digits again um the 14.5 allows us to get at being stabilized predictable and flexible as we move forward and it also allows us to implement the Staffing implementation so thoughts yes council member we'll go since I'm warmed up go for it you are warmed up so um well I don't support 14 and a half and here's why we need 8.9 percent to fund 19 additional people the majority of that is PD and fire which is precisely why I support the 8.9 and and the only reason that I support 8.9 because that is much higher than any Levy that I would ever agree to uh in any past year we're in unusual times we need to backfill Public Safety in a big way and this will do that it also supports the highest priority need for additional City staff members so the 19 is made up of two-thirds Public Safety roughly and a third other staff or somewhere on it maybe it's 60 40 or something like that but it's a majority of Public Safety it also is required um to unfortunately handle the inflation that our taxpayers are dealing with we are dealing with it as well um the additional monies going up to 14.5 using the formula to me is not going to fly because it's not what we've ever used and it's not what we're going to be able to use in the future because we know from historical evidence that what goes up too fast comes back down and so there's going to come a time very near in the very near future I don't think we can use the tax rate formula without raising our tax rate so we're going to raise it we're going to have to raise one or the other raise the levy or raise the tax rate because the dollars won't work out in a falling Market um the other factor is inflation is still screaming at over eight percent and that is cutting into everybody's budget every one of us and everybody that we represent are hurting because of that runaway inflation and until that gets under control and things come back down grocery prices gas prices we need to be part of the solution and 8.9 isn't part of the solution in my book but I'm making an exception this year because we absolutely positively have to hire more police and fire the out years have not been vetted against actual market conditions nor defined factual data on what we are actually going to use that money for we have ideas we have thoughts but we haven't gone through an entire exercise of prioritizing and identifying based on fact what the costs are and what we're going to do this year this year this year this year and if you go back in historical budget Cycles every forecasted budget year we dealt with reality in the budget year we were dealing with but year two three four and five have never ended up the way they were forecasted they usually end up better upon rare occasion they end up a little bit worse and so I don't put Credence in the 2024-2025 2026 and 2027 because historically for 16 budget Cycles those numbers are proven wrong and until we deal with the reality of the market the market conditions at the time the conditions in the economy the valuation of housing the cost of government those are nothing more than the worst case scenarios so 10.9 and 12.9 I don't put a lot of credence in because I've been trained not to buy this exact budget cycle for 16 straight years so as good as they are they're only as good as the numbers that can be forecasted and you can't forecast Revenue you don't have and you can always forecast costs that you know along with inflation and that's exactly what our financial analysts have done there's always something that comes along that either saves money or drives more revenue and those numbers end up coming down so I want to deal with what we can control and what we know factually back is backed up and that is 8.9 and the people that it hires that this city needs majority in public safety and that is as far as I'll ever go on behalf of the taxpayers and it's eight nine is not something I like at all I'm holding my breath to vote for 8.9 but I'm doing it a lot easier with a good conscience because I know police is in dire need of folks fires and dire need of folks and the numbers that are presented I support in fact I would almost rather they get a few more in this first round um than what they're getting but I'm delighted that they're getting the people they are 8.9 is my number now bit higher so I won't vote for the 14 and a half in favor of it put it that way I think you're still the same council member I am still the same I would ask the council that if they do vote in favor of the 14.53 that although it would be non-binding I would ask that they would vote for a Max tax for 2024 2025 2026 2027 at the projected levels because if we are very confident in them I think councils should be willing to take a non-binding vote in support of them and to say that those will be the expected Max taxes in the projected future so that our residents know that that is something that is very firm foreign [Music] dan t and Jenny are there any legal statutes about uh Council making those kinds of with regard to because we're just doing the max tax for this year and I'm I don't know whether there are any statutes that does not allow us to make those projections for the coming years Madam mayor members of the council I suppose first I should just say I am not an attorney or an attorney spokesperson um but uh as um councilmember Schultz mentioned it would be non-binding uh the council must take annually positive action on its budget and property tax levy and there is nothing in law that would allow this Council to bind the action of a future Council but this council could like it does in any number of other areas can express its will and desire and preferences as it relates to things moving forward in the future the thing that I would add is that the council does as part of the budget process adopt the Finance plan so to speak it is a plan and that plan does reflect or would reflect these amounts so in that way the council does I think annually express some type of desire as it relates to those financial management plans and the year-over-year changes in the property tax levy the additional caveat that I would add is the Council on October 11th will consider some analysis as it relates to the facilities fund and phase three improvements part one two and three and it is possible at some point in time the property tax levy could be used to support some of those projects in which case as council member Schultz has I think rightfully pointed out in previous meetings would change some of the analysis and calculus as it relates to year-over-year changes in the levy but as mentioned earlier that's one of the virtues of the 14.5 is you would have the option at that point in time to use the money for projects or use the money for staff you know what have you uh whatever the like I mentioned whatever the will of the council is at that moment s um we made a decision to operationalize the arpa money last year which Jenny did you say that ends up being about 7.3 percent yeah three million is approximately seven we're using two percent annually from that and that money is going to have to come from somewhere um I don't know that that's something that's just going to fall out of the sky so we're going to be either having a difficult conversation about that this year next year the year after um to make up for that decision to buy down our Levy with that money um I have an Eda with one two three four five programs that we have said we are interested in funding and operationalizing as well seven hundred thousand dollars of the Eda Levy is an already planned expenditures and then three hundred thousand dollars is essentially I guess new money um our Eda increased last year was fifty thousand dollars bringing it from 247.5 to 297.5 so we were sitting right at about three hundred thousand dollars in that Levy last year anyways um code cash Home Improvement loans senior housing improvements those are brand new programs I don't think we've done any of those Justice yet um last week I think Mr forzland made the comment that 50 of the housing stock in Burnsville is reaching 50 years in age um so we've got kind of a financial cliff looming and we've got a cliff looming with our housing and Commercial stock um in well 15 14 and a half percent is not a number that I get excited about at some point we have to do something to address kind of these festering issues that are starting to Bubble to the surface um we're in a fairly unique time right now partner Dan told us about on the very first meeting and I was interested in taking advantage of that situation this year as I think we said a once in a decade opportunity to do this without actually charging the real dollars that a 14 and a half percent would Merit in other years so it's a difficult decision I'm looking at our graph from last year and it said that if we did I think we did a four eight or four six I don't remember what we did last year it was a four eight and we were going to level off at five seven yeah through and through um I'm looking at this graph which looks a little bit different um but we've had some change we've had some change in leadership um and a change in the way we do things and I trust Greg I trust trust our staff um I'm going to squirm a little bit if we come back here in a year and we're talking about a 10.9 despite taking the blue path if I'm fortunate enough to be here next year but this is kind of a long rambling way of saying that I'm willing to consider the 14 and a half this year based on what I've heard and what is looming ahead of us on the next four to ten years as a community um to rip the Band-Aid off this year but then come back down to earth and as council member Keely likes to say sharpen her pencils and um get this number more in a predictable path that's all I have here thank you um our staff has done a remarkable job putting together all of the information we need the way we did the budget this year I was really impressed with and I totally appreciated all the senior staff coming in and presenting what they do what they need and what they're looking for going forward I do trust our staff as well that they know what they're doing that they are the subject matter experts and each in one of their divisions our financing partner is not just our finance department we bring experts in to help us with this I trust their financial abilities to forecast yes sometimes things change on us but that's kind of what Society does it doesn't mean you don't do anything you have to do something about it I do want to talk to you just a little bit about you said Vince about the 4.8 and the 5.7 I just want to remind everybody that did not anticipate in hiring one new person for four years in the city we are going to do status quo for four years and that's why we're at those percentage points and it's and I've been saying this all along it's time for us to get this on track and I certainly wouldn't vote for a Max tax that's going to tie our hands as we move forward to the to the vote in December because it just it doesn't make sense we did that to ourselves last year and by the time I figured out it didn't have any hires we couldn't do anything about it it was we were stuck with that 4.8 and I don't want to see that happen to us again so I am in favor of continuing with the 14.5 first I want to thank our staff our city manager and everyone who worked very hard because this is the first time that we have come together for months and we started this process in March looking at the budget everybody and I thank everybody for doing the work in informing us in our community as to how we deliver service uh to the community to our residents and to our businesses nine reports giving us High touch and high demand on services and we are a service organization as I sit here and look back Burnsville is not the community that I came in came into when I took office Burnsville is a very different Community Burnsville was only at about 55 000 we're now at 65 000. uh our housing stock if I remember correctly we only had three senior housing we have more than that and when I look at what's happening in fire paramedics their numbers continuously the straight up vertical on medical calls I look at the stock the housing stock in this community and I look at the multi-housing stock in our community and where it's at to be a vibrant City we're not going to be a vibrant City with what we're experiencing with a stock that is in the city since 1970 or before so we have a lot of work to do and our staff has taken into consideration all of the challenges and all of the pressures and we have been very thoughtful and very conservative throughout the years in our budgeting process where we have missed opportunities this budget also allows us to look at our Eda budget and to begin building resources into that Economic Development toolbox so that we can look to the Future and create the vibrant City that we want it to be so with everything that we have gone through planning for the future addressing the pressures and the issues that we have today it's hard for all of us to look at a 14.5 body but this is what we need to do then 14.5 is that we need to um to pass to do the things that we need to do and to create a brighter future and a vibrant future for Burnsville and it will also help us stabilize our financial position into the future so that people will understand that there is flexibility and stability and I am willing because we cannot bind the hands of future Council but an unbinding if there instead of but it might be I don't know how you want to do that uh Greg if you've talked to Joel and understand that we're as we move forward we're saying 14.5 for the max tax but looking at a non-binding for future years on that seven point [Music] 7.6 thank you Americans then and it's non-binding we're not going to tie the hands of future councils and anything that comes up but but we are trusting the work that our staff has presented to us and all of the forecasting that they have done so if you can do that with regard to getting some some counsel from our legal people and then however we put that together in the resolution Madam mayor members of the council at your direction I certainly would do that I'd look to the rest of the council first the affirmation of that direction but with the non-biting are you okay with that I would really like to see a 7-6 next year would be great a what a 7.6 next year would be great yeah I hear three of you that's all I need so that's what I'm non-binding but at least council member Schultz if we can use the word consensus on this well if you get five votes you most certainly can yeah members of the council yes I will talk with our finance staff certainly run it past Joel um uh I don't see there being a a technical problem necessarily uh but happy to happy to run that past because Google Council I would also say that I am extraordinarily confident in knowing what we know today that our our projections are accurate with the assumptions that have been that have been made in the budgeting process so yeah for me it's about also Staffing right because our community as I said is a very different community and I want to make sure we have the right complement of Staff because we are a high-touch organization you are developing this and we have we're a high-touch organization and we're out there meeting the needs of the people I do they appreciate that absolutely Madam Aaron I I would also you know that I believe that the council understands this very clearly but I think it's also important for us to provide predictability and great communication throughout the community I think that's part of what council member Schultz's suggestion is about here um and that that is very important to me as we look towards the future one of the things that you asked us to do you asked me to do in January was to to make sure that you were informed and communicated with effectively uh and um I believe it's also my responsibility that our team uh do that for the entirety of the community they're big important decisions and that has to be part of the the work that we do and um city manager Lindbergh at my Regional Council of Mayors we had an economist speak to us his name is William Melton and he is one of the respected Economist in in the country I will send you his PowerPoint and that you can share it with the council and then sounds like good information mayor yeah it's information that we need to to share with everyone okay and with that um city manager Lindberg dan t and Jenny Rhodey and members of our staff we have a Max tax at 14.5 percent to bring before us next Tuesday um for a vote of the council we will prepare materials for your proposed budget and maximum tax levy again for next Tuesday September 20th and then from there uh Madam mayor members of the council we will obviously continue to take a look at our budget calendar we'll be in communication regular communication between now and December 6th when you would adopted a final a final Levy a final budget there are still some unanswered questions and some work that we'll need to do so we'll address those and continue to follow the plan that we put in place as you make those decisions okay and with that we're going to recess for about 15 minutes members of the council there are some Refreshments since we started so early so uh staff and everybody there are some refreshments for us and we will reconvene in 15 minutes thank you foreign foreign foreign foreign foreign foreign foreign I am okay uh we are reconvened and the next item on the agenda is the THC edible products regulation update our city clerk Michelle Collins is presenting Ms collins floor is yours thank you madam mayor council members um as most of you know let's see if we can get this presentation up there we go as most of you know we have recently had a change in the law that the Edibles and beverages with less than 0.3 percent THC from hemp concentration is now legal in the state of Minnesota so we've been a team of Staff members have been getting some information together we're giving you an update tonight uh this uh current the law currently allows for five milligrams per serving and up to 50 milligrams per package there is no regulations in the statute regarding who or where this can be manufactured or distributed and there's no statutory limitations on how the city is able to regulate this through licensing or zoning or otherwise the potential regulations that we're looking at is for what is currently legal now but we also need to keep in mind that some form of expanded legalization may happen in the future and we do expect that the state will consider something not saying that it'll pass but I think that we definitely will see some legislative bills uh regarding regulatory regulation of this product currently what our staff has been looking at is Public Safety what what can we do please fire how does it affect them licensing what kind of parameters for licensing kind of looking at tobacco and alcohol type licensing zoning where in the city should this be located at should we restricted to all sales in one District or another that type of thing we also need to make sure that we are addressing any issues that might address underage purchases and a compliance with the concentrations and per serving restrictions that the law currently set at like I said we're looking at this similar to tobacco and alcohol but there are some different specifics to this THC law that we are going to have to make sure that we address when we if if and when we do the regulation some of the regulation things that we might consider are like hours of operation probably wouldn't want this to be a 24-hour business in Burnsville age verification verification making sure that that is being adhered to possible background checks possibly if you want to limit it to certain types of businesses and if not then maybe we limit the number of licenses per business if you don't want an open-ended number of licensees and the Community the law does not affect in for human resources the law does not affect anything that has to do with our CDL holder employees and it also doesn't affect our Public Safety employees who carry a firearm that's those things are regulated by federal law so we did not have to worry about that for all other staff the new law continues to provide no allowances for being for an employee being able to use possess or be impaired at work that hasn't changed and I know that the HR department has updated their employee policies to reflect the current law look at to HR department to see if there's anything else mayor members of the council know I would um categorize that quickly Michelle thank you Public Safety um when speaking with the chief she in uh she said that there was no specific complaints or issues in the community that she's aware of nothing's been reported to the PD they're not aware of any businesses that may be selling these types of products and I did go on and and do a quick Google search and I couldn't find any but I expect there's probably some out there that are selling it driving under the influence of a controlled substance is still a crime the same as it's always been there the police have their standard operating procedures in cases where a driver displays any kind of impairment so all of that still follows under the the that law doesn't change the law at all but it will have some potential potential future challenges with traffic stops and calls for service because there's no case law on this we we don't have anything to fall back on so once we start getting some case law on this I think some things will change I talked to our community development friends about um potential zoning issues with this we're expecting that it's probably that we probably should allow the sale and distribution in in any commercial retail area and we should allow for manufacturing in industrial areas makes sense these are just high level conversations today the league of Minnesota cities sent out a policy and I think that the council has received this already I did see it go out in an email and this their recommendations uh talk about the um support the state developing the regulatory framework for this and not having having to do that regulatory framework at the city level that's my second bullet point right here council member Augusta said they're also specifying certain authorities for cities such as to retain the right to Zone retaining the right to be more restrictive than statute and to Simply opt out if a community wishes to do so also addressing any public safety needs local uh they talked about the local enforcement being an unfunded mandate for cities because this is not something that we've had to do previously and now it's an additional resource for us our additional use of resources for us they also talked in their policy about how there's a lack of Taxation on this product of course everybody knows we have plenty of taxes on alcohol and tobacco but there's no taxation on this product as of yet what they're pushing for again is for local option basically for each Community to put their own tax in for enforcement and that sort of thing if they allow it then we have the authority to tax it then and also to address any public health concerns our next steps on this is we're looking to be patient and thoughtful with our approach so since there are no significant operational concerns at this time and and we acknowledge that that could change and if it does we'll we'll be coming back with a different story probably but at this time there are no significant operational concerns we are expecting state regulations to happen pretty soon and uh if that doesn't happen again we may be coming back to you with a different story at that time we also need to consider any potential licensing requirements and we are looking at what other cities are doing at this time we've seen some cities that are implementing moratoriums right away and just say put everything on hold until we know more and then we see other cities who are adopting licensing right away and we kind of feel like that might be jumping the gun again a bit because if we adopted these uh licensing regulations whatever state regulatory framework gets put together May completely undo it and we'll just have to back it all out so it's kind of like we don't want to we don't want to have to put all this time and energy into this regulate regulatory framework when the state may just undo everything we just did and then we also want to make sure that what we put together gets reviewed by our code review task force because that's our citizen task force that reviews our study code and I have any a stand for any questions any questions we should we just allow Michelle and staff to continue the research that they need to do and we're kind of tied until the state really does what they're going to do yeah and we're not going to want to do a moratorium you know that's not the direction we want to go allow staff to do the work that they're doing and we might even have to look at next year after the legislature uh do their work because we don't want to be over our skis and do something and they come back and take it away or whatever so let's move forward and allow staff to do that it was interesting um during the fire muster I had a lot of conversation with people asking about these during what huh during what doing a fire muster during the festival about the THC Brazil Festival oh Burnsville Festival excuse me those habits I will get there with the new name with the Burnsville Festival uh and um some of the folks who are in the uh alcohol business said to me you know THC is a is a controlled substance and they would also like us to consider what that all means because liquor is a controlled substance and so I'm just passing that along you know you get a lot of information when you're out there connecting with the public mayor that's the thing with the state and the liquor stores are prohibited from selling that THC right now yes but they're trying we're trying to get that changed as well because a lot of the municipals want to sell it yeah because that's an income stream for them so there's a lot of there's a lot going on uh is the law enforcement agency ATF going to have a c on the end Alcohol Tobacco firearmsc yeah I did not talk to any of those numbers it was only our uh um so they were looking out for you Captain they're saying hey how are you guys doing this for our police you know they know exactly what to do when you have an impaired driver because of alcohol what are they gonna do when they have an impaired driver that's under the influence of THC anyway Madam mayor remembers of the council I do I do think it's a it's a good reminder that by and large this the way this is has come down it is an unfunded mandate on local law enforcement so it is yes it is one of the things that we'll continue to do is Monitor our community's experience um and ensure that you have the information that you need uh from from PD to make good policy decisions into the future yeah so it on one of the slides that said that there's there's no taxes but what is meant by that is there's no additional product specific tax there's like everyone if a business is selling something they gotta pay so it's a food product right yeah but we're saying that there's no specific tax on this yet yeah yeah okay thank you we're just waiting for the legislature to tell us what they want reconvene and have an actual discussion on it again yeah after after they meet and I would say that right now from a staff perspective anyway we very much align with the with the leads position that uh we feel that it's important that we're at the table Yeah local issue to be discussed at the State Legislature and I think you and I with mlc have a a meeting on this particular subject also coming up yes yeah next week at least okay very good I can add Madame mayor the Minnesota retailers Association which I've been a part of for over 20 years their position as they believe in responsible selling age 21 Etc and that we think they think it's there's an important role for ensuring the integrity and safety of the supply chain and the product they also think the opportunity itself should be fair or not restricted to say just a vape or tobacco product Only Store your point yeah and clearly the legislature intended for there to be responsible retailing and at the same time opportunity opportunity for responsible retailers to sell it yeah it was interesting because when all of this came up I asked Greg if he and PD could take a look and see if we if there's anybody selling any of these products in the city and you guys didn't find any right well well Madam Mary certainly we don't operate under anecdotal evidence uh we the PD has not received any complaints yeah uh and nor would I send the PD into businesses to check so no we don't licenses no we wouldn't know but you know just in case somebody said oh you know I can go and get some brownies at so but they're for sale in many stores yeah immediately in all stores okay Michelle um specifically staff has discussed like this would not be necessarily limited to just a tobacco or vape shop because it's not allowed wheat vaping yeah because uh specifically because CBD from hemp there are many homeopathic and other types of stores that sell that type of thing and we think that the THC from hemp may have similar applications and those types of stores as well so I think that there there are other ways that there are other sellers that may want to sell those product besides just your faculty absolutely the law says that they can't uh Chiropractic smoke it they can drink it they can eat it but they can't smoke it the law the law that just passed was specifically for Edibles and beverages yeah edible and beverage not for not for not Christmas for smoking there is still currently Delta eight smokable plant products that have been for sale for the last four years on the Shelf in stores in almost every city this bill did not cover that what about like home-based businesses that's something on your research list that is also home-based businesses are also on our research but if we do Zone it so that it's in any commercial retail then it would not be in residential so could somebody get violate our code if they were manufacturing it out of their home in a residential area if we say an industrial area um then yes it would not it would violate to do it out of your home also I think that um one of the concerns that I've heard about with the manufacturing of some of this product is the odor for the surroundings so you may have that issue anyway I think that's a good example of some of the local issues I would also say that that you know on first read of the of the League's proposed legislative position uh you know there is there is absolutely partnership support that we'll need in these issues right we're not a Public Health Organization so um there are many nuanced factors here to your questions council member okay yeah Karen we are looking at this I I do ask that we keep an equity lens on this especially when looking at home-based businesses some of the people most impacted negatively by the drug war are lower income in persons of color and so as we have as we have these types of opportunities which are now legal coming forward I would hope that we would keep that keep that in mind that those opportunities be open to to communities that have been most negatively impacted and frankly over prosecuted so you know that's that's what I'm throwing out as well of you know as as our city is navigating forward on this to keep that in mind yeah sure another one of the things that we thought about it when you think about home-based businesses in this scenario is that um really what home-based businesses uh are restricted have to do with traffic parking yeah that kind of thing say if this was some other type of not a not a retail store then you're not going to have a lot of people parking and your neighbors driveway or something trying to get to you that then it wouldn't be an issue but I think that you we're just looking for uh not creating we if we can do that where it doesn't create a neighborhood nuisance right and maybe that would be an online sale yeah absolutely then they could have a cottage business yeah so you know I mean just like we have other Cottage business licenses right yeah yeah okay Dad just to further clarify that point I made that um plant-based Delta eight cannabis is sold today in stores mainly vape stores which has a THC level of about seven percent Street pot has about 25 to 30 percent THC these new Edibles within Delta 9 which the Delta 8 was something that was never called out in federal law and that's why about four or five years ago Delta eight came onto the market because it's not actually in covered under any laws it's a weaker version of of the Cannabis that you can buy off the street at seven percent um and it's also in oils and so it can be Vaped and there's Edibles so Delta eight has been out there quite a while this law allowed Delta 9 which was previously regulated as the illegal allowed Delta nine at five percent per dose 50 milligram per container per package and it's very that actually falls in fairly close in line with the Delta 8 products that have been out on the market for a number of years I'm learning a whole new vocabulary I don't know anything you think about Delta eight and Delta but when I travel well when when we Minnesota became a a potential recreational even back when it was Medical um I tried when I traveled to California or Colorado or these other states I went to those stores asked to speak to the manager and just said what's the regulation that you have to live by what are the rules what are the package you know just just to learn and then when I came back it was about two years ago or so I went into a vape because I'd heard something about Delta 8 in the stores and I went in and I was forward to to smell a container of Delta 8 cannabis flower plant that smelled as strong and as potent as any other cannabis I'd ever smelled and uh and that it was for sale and that it was legal that's because it had never been carved out I think the legislature had a discussion about that when they were doing this Delta 9 THC bill but as we've learned they didn't cover a lot and they were it was it was not a very well vetted process and Bill it was sort of tagging on to other things and it seemed to be a compromise between the let's make Delta 9 full strength pot recreationally available versus the I don't want pot the group of the side of the aisle that said I don't want to support legal pot recreational pot this seemed to be a step in the direction of some compromise but Delta 8 has been out for a long time so I really thought it was ultimately just borrowing from existing precedent to come up with the formula that they came up with yeah representative Jess Hansen remember when she came to educate us on marijuana that was going to be something that they're going to be considering at the state level yeah I'm listening to her and thinking okay where's my Google or some of the things that she was talking about there was yeah there was a at the entrance to the State Fair of the road the main road that's directly across from the main opening there was a a booth there by a the THC manufacturer in Blaine I think or Rapids somewhere up north I think it was Blaine um and they really didn't want to get into retail they wanted to be purely manufacturing and Supply but they had a table there to promote their their business and and I had a chat with the gentleman there for quite a while just asking about you know how this whole thing is going because the Minnesota retailers as I mentioned has been in deep discussions about it uh they're a stakeholder representing stores all different types of stores and um it just it was it was a learning experience and and they got up and running very quickly there were actually several tents at the outside the fair yeah there always is you know there's several tests doing the yeah now there's even more with all the full selection of Edibles right gummies or whatever oh great um I never thought we'd have in these Chambers yeah okay very good um Michelle your next also in the Community Builders Award nominations thank you madam mayor city council this year we did get nine nominations for Community Builder Awards we have Berean Baptist Church Dr Kathy Funston if you do Hussein shuri Jason Diana you might note that he got two nominations from two different people for the open door pantry Margaret Garvey Patton John Christensen skip neenhouse Tracy and Jim in the free book buggy now if you remember last year we also got a nomination for the free book buggy as well because they were nominated again I wanted to make sure you knew that that people are still happy that they're doing what they're doing yeah and one of the things that we talked about is that perhaps people don't know that they've been nominated before and I would suggest that because it was just last year um that we let her know that she was nominated but because she had um received the award last year uh we could but we wanted her to know that people were really pleased with her work and I hope that the council um approves with that and that one through eight if you're eliminating the book button yeah we'll just let them know that they were nominated but they just got the award last year did I'm looking at skip who certainly deserves one of these Awards is he got one he didn't get one before no okay just making sure I thought he got one a long time I think he accepted one on behalf oh I think that's what it was he was up here yeah cool I'm cool anybody any objections they're all I want to take skip off that list [Laughter] I'm just kidding anything you want to talk about yeah okay skip uh well in the comments we're spot on uh he and Margaret were um they They Carried some unbelievable buckets of water for a long time and came through for the festival very good okay so one through eight thank you thank you Michelle okay and now we are at Round Table and uh councilmember Keely this is about the youth outdoor athletic fields scheduling yes I want to have a discussion with Council but first tagging on to our community Builder award I wanted to recognize someone sitting at our round table tonight who in the spirit of the community Builder award isn't necessarily a candidate to be a recipient but I think it's worthy of pointing out the rather significant role that this person played in making the festival the bigger better more inclusive Festival happen and also provided all of the legwork to create what I believe is the first ever operations manual for putting on a four-day Festival of that size um our own fire chief BJ Youngman is a member of our board and if it wasn't that he spent months well the last 12 months in building that operations manual and having over 30 some meetings with various people throughout the last few months but then he also showed up on well Wednesday and Thursday but he showed up on Friday the date is set up which we spend many hours in many hands to create the festival to open at five o'clock on Friday night BJ was there early in the morning all the way until midnight um and he was doing everything from all of his fire safety work related to the fireworks but um and and setting up but he was basically our Sparky of the electrician to figure out all of the electrical challenges and hookups and amps and cables and adapters and generators and everything um he was there by our side all the way until after midnight uh two nights in a row in the rain Friday night we were all working in the rain there is no way that we could have pulled off this Festival without BJ in the role that he played and so for that I would offer up a roaring Round of Applause and thank you and I'm not surprised that he put the manual together because he also put the manual together for our fire operations and also when we had things going on and I remember this so vividly with um when we had the uh McDonald's uh incident it was Chief gentleman who did all of the work with looking at all of the policies and ordinance and everything that had to do with that his head was in that manual so and he he just he's just a great leader thank you so much the very best yeah thank you thank you not necessary and I would just recognize there were a lot of other people there was people from public works from Parks and Rec Community engagement that were a huge part of making that possible so could you solve problems even at the laser light thing where it was oh that's God Hugo too Harrison oh God uh I am blessed uh to have so many talented individuals I'm sure I didn't get to know half of one of the things that went wrong and they were just fixed by people like BJ and Skip and Hugo and others that and JJ and Amber uh they just stepped up fixed the issue and they've never run into my attention here at the city great people do great stuff problem solvers they did all of that but I can't tell you that laser show became the guy he you need to talk to him he did no Advance work so he comes up to me and he says mayor we need to turn off that light and that light these are street lights I said no we can't do that did you talk about that and then at the same time he does not have to talk to the fire chief that he was going to have these fire bombs going off and people and and so there he is trying to solve that problem and Hugo is trying to sell another problem with regards well you got flash bombs using smoke bombs smoke bombs oh my God he but he did not do any advance work did not smoke yes I did see a little smoke yeah yeah councilmember Keely members of the council I I appreciate your recognition of BJ and the other staff who have worked tirelessly uh it's a uh the festival the Festival of fire muster is a is a community event it's very important to all of us as a team that we're strong Partners uh with each of our our different Legacy events and I'd also like to express my thanks to the vast array of Staff who put in a lot of time and energy both in in planning and over the course of the past week to to make sure that the community had a great experience yeah well while we're on this I'll I'll give you a just a really quick recap I'm taking some some words out of our liaison's mouth but I've done that a couple times lately it's all years um we had rain Friday yeah and he'll go Greg and I can attest to that yes you were there okay kind of rained on our parade but not the parade but rained on our Friday night um but what we what happened on Saturday in the sun shine was a a realization of the vision and goal that we had which was to create a diverse and inclusive Festival where everybody in Burnsville felt welcome and could enjoy and I drove around many times Saturday right after the parade and I came in near the front because I needed to get to the Multicultural stage otherwise I always like to be in the back and immediately the Kid Zone was overwhelmed with people it was so crowded and the parade was just started um and so uh and then as I got back into the rest of the grounds normally after the parade historically between the end of the parade at five o'clock it's very dead there really was never much to draw there were crowds everywhere immediately from noon or 11 o'clock on I walked through and I it was like it was five o'clock already and it was 12 30. uh if that was probably 12 15. and so and what I saw was representations of our entire Community enjoying themselves and Madam Mary you and I and other council members who show up every year on Friday night to welcome at the gate we see our diverse Community walk in and you can almost set your watch 10 minutes later they're walking right back out because there just wasn't anything to keep them there we created a an inclusive Festival that kept him there and in big crowds and so uh I just expect um that to grow quite quite nicely over the next few years because this was our very first year of getting the word out and adding a multicultural stage adding an international drink station adding some more diverse food options uh adding the prayer room adding the sensory French sensory friendly Zone all of those things got used in fact the sensory friendly Zone tent was had over 150 visitors it was Sensational and it became something that we didn't expect it turned out to be um a place where a family with young kids can kind of get away from the the action of the carnival and the fairgrounds and come over into that tent and just sit down and relax and color book or fidget for 15 or 20 minutes or so and then go back and enjoy the action again so not only for folks who needed a century a sensory safe place for everybody else so we're there's so many so many bugs so many hiccups because there were so many new people involved in so many new things at the same time so many tremendous successful stories that came out of Saturday when the sun came out and people were able to get there and Friday was you know Johnny home band can drive a crowd even in a rain and there's still a pretty good crowd there to listen to Johnny home play but unfortunately this was a drenched evening of of rain so anyway lots of good stories to tell yeah so Ryan please extend our appreciation to Holly she took pity on Greg and Hugo and myself because we were the ones and she put up a tent for us so we weren't sitting there with our umbrellas I will make her JJ helped her out on that so okay I'll make your appreciation known to her ASAP yeah it was I really appreciated it yeah with it all yeah I can believe she'd do that yeah yeah uh so back to yeah outdoor athletic fields so what brought this up was at our our Burnsville Festival we had a soccer tournament which was brought forward by uh Jason Popkin who owns I I got skills which is a soccer club uh and Training Facility business that serves 90 percent diverse kids and Families and um he has been trying for years to be able to get some more time on our soccer fields for his games and practices and it's been a tough go of trying to work sort of work his way in to being able to use our city park fields um it's worth pointing out that Jason has worked with our school district for a very long time and has and and they know him really really well he does a lot of soccer skills training Etc and and tournaments with the school districts on their grounds on their soccer fields but he's also wanting to grow his business and utilize some of our parks and he's been running into some problems because we have some Legacy users uh Burnsville United and others that that have been utilizing the fields and so I want to have a discussion on what is our policy on how our publicly owned fields are shared amongst the user groups it's always a challenge because when everybody wants it at the same time uh it's it's a challenge right uh but I I think I wanted to bring forward the discussion of our policy which staff would have to bring back and for a future councilman meeting to be able to just dive into it to understand it better because it's not something we really deal with on a regular basis and um bring forth some ideas and discussion on how it can be more fair and Equitable to allow all our user groups access to these public Fields well I'm I'm okay with directing staff to bring back the policy and having a discussion and give us what some of the challenges are and how do we navigate to get to a place where we can include others I don't know how much time we have available in our Fields but we won't know that until you bring it back so Greg and Garrett and Hugo uh if that's the consensus of the council to bring back bring back a couple years ago about Apple Valley coming into our hockey arena and displacing some people that have been there a long time and that's why we need to have that discussion too we don't just displace people that have been here forever yeah and that's the reason why we need to understand what our policy is and how it's working now and what are the opportunities so I'm okay with are you all okay with directing staff to bring back the policy and talking to us about what the child what they're doing and what the challenges might be and what's a pathway forward about just offering others access to renting fuel time well they will tell us what that would how that would work with other user groups that we have metamor members of the council I I will be perfectly honest with you this isn't going to happen until 2023. I we just don't have the capacity in our current schedule so that's my concern fair warning than operation I think it's you know in preparation for the 2023 summer yeah field use season we would want to have this discussion in advance of that so if there was going to be any change it could be done to allow them those groups January 23 January February getting us there so why don't you take a look with what you and staff have but of course we understand that we don't have the capacity what do you think here what do you think this is your in your wheelhouse over there sorry madam mayor members what do I think about what specifically just talking about all this and changing everything policy yeah and other groups in you know the um the city has a very similar policy to our neighbors um we have had you know over 25 years occasionally we have different user groups that pop up um eventually we get to the table with them and work with our Legacy groups the specific individual that was mentioned earlier with igot skills we we will be able to accommodate if not all most of their needs for the fall and we have meetings set up with Jason um we're probably meeting with him next week based on some of the most recent emails that I've read so usually once we um there's some information about that particular individual as far as being a non-profit and where they fall into the criteria and things like that that were new news information we have rented Fields with that individual in the past and we try to work with all the different user groups to the best of our ability right so um you know our policy is not unique or different than most of the others and at the end of the day we want our Burnsville residents out there using our fields and we will we work tirelessly with these different groups to try to make sure you know in this particular case we want to bring the Legacy group and a non-profit group together at a table and that takes time there are certain times of the year that are better than others um it's it's often hard to scramble um you know right before everyone needs fields and whatnot um but we have been able to accomplish that and like I said we'll be meeting with him probably next week based on the email to get a better understanding of what his Fields will look like his needs will look like in the future um just like we do with all the other different groups we're already having ongoing conversations absolutely to revisit the policy let's allow our city manager to work with our staff and then they can bring it back so we can review it and what I understand is that we get it ready for the fall season 2023 no summer of next year I think they're working through things to try and beat the fall demand we would have our discussion about any potential changes next summer basically or before the peak season I guess yeah Greg you got that it's on my list okay okay thank you all right uh moving on so then next one is multi-family housing parking requirements and Regina thank you for coming to the table um we have had a lot of issues with regard to multi-family housing and parking and I know that all of our multi-family facilities all have complied with the parking requirements but a lot of them don't a lot of the residents don't want to pay the monthly charge so they park on the streets and create issues not only for the residents in the area or the businesses in the area or our staff so I would like a council for our staff to come back with some Solutions about parties whether parking meters would be part of that solution or what would it be because uh Regina all of the buildings that we approved in the last let's say 10 years all comply with the parking requirements correct we do have one recent parking or recent apartment building that actually has proof of parking that was approved that has not been installed that may actually help some situation but we have changed our zoning code in recent times so in 2019 the city undertook a parking study and in 2020 we've made changes to our our parking code in a in a series of different categories and land uses one of them being our multi-family housing and we have taken a look at the apartments that have been built in the last four years and they all comply with either the city code at the time deviations may have been granted but we're looking at what the city code is today they would be in in compliance so what I would like is for a four stack to bring back so that we can take a look at it and see if we need to amend some things and to look at what the solutions might be um as we move forward with some of these issues and I know councilman mckeeley you have you had had some uh emails that went to you and copied me with regard to some of these issues so the residents won't pay for the parking how do we create a situation where they will parking meters well that's insane I mean but you're going to put parking meters in so they can stay out overnight or you're going to record an apartment building to double their cost and parking and and the residents still won't rent it so there's still parking on the streets I mean that's what I'm trying to kind of yeah we have a staff that's very innovative yeah we do and that here tonight what I'm looking for I'm looking for or counsel to be open to having to directing staff to do this work because as Regina said they are not in compliance as to today's they aren't compliance they are they are there is one apartment building that did have what's called proof of parking approved but they did so they show it on the plan median city code but it has not been formally installed part of your approval said if there is an issue within um we need to give them notice but they need to comply with installing that proof of parking so that actually may help alleviate a certain situations yeah so I know that you know they complied when they came through with their development agreement so with their development application but we have an issue so we have to solve it and I would like for our staff to take a look at it and bring it back and for us to talk about it Madam mayor members of the council for for clarity is is the is the ask of Staff um to bring back Solutions related to on-street parking in the vicinity of multi-family developments well not just on how do we solve this parking dilemma so councilmember Keely to your point you would include Current public parking Arrangements in Heart of the City yes because I think that's one of the thorns on our side is what's going on with one apartment building utilizing a public deck as their own personal parking garage but that was part of their approval I would that's why we're talking about yeah and the Heart of the City was designed as shared parking throughout the entire heart of the world not for uh not for an apartment house to use the because now it's taking away parking I think that's been called out though well you know and that's our problem okay we've been very lenient with a lot of us my concern is that I don't want us to get in a situation where the developers won't develop here because it's going to be cost restrictive for them to do it if handy Chase had to put in 350 some parking spaces that building wouldn't be there today I can tell you that but Andy Chase is in compliance both galleries are in compliance and Andy Chase not the ones parking on this I understand that but I'm just saying if we change it for one we have to change it for all you don't say this particular has to do with another one doesn't I well I would just point to the previous apartment and multi housing that was developed a few years ago this problem really didn't exist we don't have cars using the entire bottom level of a deck because it's across the street from their their apartment and they decided Well I don't need to pay for an underground I'll just take the freebie across the street we don't have that scenario in one we do and it it's caused a major problem because quite frankly there's no incentive I have Underground Across the street that the city provided for me why would I pay 50 bucks a month for this one right and that wasn't the intent that wasn't the spirit of that that shared parking Arrangement was go ahead and just take up the whole lower level with your own residence and we'll just give up half our deck to you yeah that was never right I do understand that but but we allowed them to do that as proof of parking when we allowed them to build that building is that how we did the proof of parking for the maven the proof of parking is related to the rise on Grand or now the the uh but not the neon property the maven has Services it's a public parking ramp the maven property in our staff reports and presentations we did mention that the parking deck is available up to 48 hours before could be used as overnight parking for the public the public meaning could be residents of the maven it could be literally anybody that lives within the vicinity that would be people aim Center the proof of parking the hardest city is across the whole District it is yeah so they're parking the whole District I think you know I remember when we approved that project I anticipated it being um you know used incidentally during the day not as their garage yeah it's their personal garage from their perspective because there's is it the problem that the apartments charge their tenants to park probably because it creates a disincentive to do that when you get a free one across instead of the parking b a parking space comes with your with your apartment well that's what we don't know but I mean that one that one I'd like to know myself yeah what we don't know whether they rent agreement is only for yeah so they don't take that choice to yeah public parking yeah yeah well but that's something that we can take a look at and then when we look at the development uh application uh the development agreement might say that you're you might have to charge your your renters uh not only for the rent of the but also for the parking I just don't want to prohibit development but I don't think that that would happen that fifty thousand dollars a stall for underground parking it could happen awful quick well they're building it anyway necessarily underground parking well they're going to build it but if they have to build twice as much as they have built it gets very expensive no our code is specific as to how many well that's what I'm trying to find out is it the apartment owners causing it because they're charging the rent well that's what we need to directly that I would like to know yeah and that's what I don't want to I don't want to change our code I don't want us to talk about something we don't know anything about until our establish the world made a rare members of the council for for clarity to to try to frame the problem uh it is you're looking for a discussion on parking challenges be it on street or in parking decks related to multi-family development yes yes or to council member gustafson's Point uh throughout the community in different uses I mean because right now we also have people love to talk about on street parking yeah I knew that was going to happen well the thing is we have a lot of people with regard to on-street parking that's coming along uh especially on Parkwood and also down in in River Hills uh with some of the multi-family housing around there uh we're going down uh so there's it's becoming a problem in our community and we need to address it it's going to be a big subject for us to handle to take on well that one will be I would like for staff I'm not looking for it to be done this year I know you don't have the capacity to do any of that just tell us when you can get it done bring something right now watch these two huddle over there yes three things um my understanding is many of the department buildings in Florida City were approved with less than what was code at the time now with the new Tod zoning some of those have come into compliance so they weren't always approved with the adequate and I think it was basically based upon shared parking models that exist and the fact that we have all this parking out there so that's one Regina can correct me from wrong he's he's right on and reductions because of the proximity to Transit as well and I think we need to be honest about that just because it's a Transit Oriental uh Zone doesn't mean that the people living in the suburbs don't still love their cars Brillo let's be honest second thing is traffic committee meetings that we have we talk more about parking than anything else we talk more about the parking right now than we do stop signs or speed limits or what have you do we talk more about complaints we get about on-street parking so uh that's that is a primary thing number three we have seventy five thousand seventy five thousand dollars in the 2023 CIP for a Heart of the City parking study so that may be the vehicle we could use to try and solve some of this and take a look at what's going on and you know the one time we looked we had a full event at aim Center and there was still plenty of open spots in the Heart of the City they may not have been the perfect ones right in the deck but we had that whole row of available parking so um well my old boss Steve said let's make sure we have a problem with parking first but that's just uh well it's good to know well these are some of the uh things that you all can bring forward with regard to what is if you have that uh budget then let's take a look at that that may be part of the solution as we move forward but you know if we don't look at it then it becomes worse it just carries on a couple things from my perspective man or may remember the council it sounds like this is a discussion that you want to have at least by a majority of head nodding and comments um uh it's gonna go on a different direction I'm going to I'm going to be a wet blanket and say the same thing I said with the last item this is something that's going to have to come back to you in 2023. and I'm okay with that I'm not looking for an immediate solution we have a lot of things on your plate right now between now and and the end of December I'm not that that's not my expectation and I don't think that's the expectation of my colleagues on the council right everybody okay everybody thank you members of the council will take the discussion from tonight we'll go by I'll go back to the leadership team we'll talk a little bit about framing uh how we might bring a discussion back to you using the input that you've provided for us this evening and also being cognizant of both recent past studies related to parking and upcoming uh initiatives that we have planned okay thank you very much uh but um reports Vince fire muster was this weekend okay and and that report's already been given right does anybody want to hear more about fire monster uh Burnsville Festival um I would just like to Echo what uh councilmember Kelly said about Chief Youngman um I did not participate as much as I normally do this year and BJ really stepped up and filled some roles that I typically um am a part of like electrical guy and running cords and stuff and so I'm grateful BJ was there to have my six and um step in when it was needed so great asset to the team other than that I have nothing else uh nothing to report I was on the THC task force and you guys received all that information so we talked about it this evening [Music] okay maybe baby is right going slowly and methodically so just let you know okay I will say councilmember Schultz to to that point uh the Dakota County managers administrators group has assembled an inventory and some thoughts for the dbb board so hopefully there's some progress in that regard MBTA um ridership in our suburb to suburb is a hundred percent even some areas over pre-pandemic levels um in VA MBTA connect on demand service is a growing continuously in a dramatic way and is requiring a shift in in in where we allocate uh resources to be able to continue to support that growth express service in the downtown has not quite reached a 50 recovery in most Suburban Transit associations it's still about 30 to 40. and it and it isn't it it's crawling in its growth very slowly the big debate amongst all the Suburban Transit providers and should be at net Council for met Transit is what that recovery forecast might actually land on but I don't believe anyone today now believes that it'll come back 100 percent because two factors work from home has proved to work and technology has afforded people the opportunity to work from home more so than ever in history and so a major shift in transit approach and major shift in funding is coming and there's no larger outfit that's going to have to shift more than met Council in met Transit because what they are spending on the Southwest Southwest light rail which still has a 500 million dollar budget deficit because the price tag keeps going up and up and up and it's more than doubled um is flying in the face of what today's Transit demands really are people are not getting out of their homes in the suburbs and getting on a bus or a light rail into downtown to go to work they might be doing that for play or for games but they're not doing that to go to work and so the subsidies are going to dramatically have to go up because of the dramatic reduction in the number of people utilizing them and um circumstances like bus Rapid Transit will also have to be looked at the Orange Line being one of them um there's just not a lot of ridership demand in today's world and we're gonna have to face that reality fairly soon there's a lot of uh a lot more Dynamics at play um and this is going to be an exciting Transportation discussion legislative session coming up next year um sta um because of met council's um uh lack of Desire or maybe admittedly the means under the current law to be able to do so they have not structured an option for virtual meetings and so last month I resigned from the Transportation Advisory Board because I cannot take a four hour block of time to drive into St Paul for a three-hour meeting and then come back I'd be more more like a four and a half hour piece of the middle of my work day and in in all honesty I wasn't willing to give up six PTO days a year just to attend the meeting because the virtual option disappeared there's about 48 people on the call for the last year and a half we've been conducting very productive meetings through Zoom or similar and it was very unfortunate there are a lot of people on that board that are very frustrated that the virtual option was not pursued and so we faced this a similar situation here because there's a lot of elected officials on that board as of today's or yesterday's SDA meeting Gary Hansen council member from Egan is planning to resign as a met metropolitan cities metro cities rep and shift into representing the Suburban Transit Association pardon on tab on Tab yep um and uh he'll be a great representative he's been on it for many many many years yeah um as a an appointee from Metro City so um he'll just put and we worked very closely together along with a couple other members that had been on MBTA board he's still on the MBTA board representing Egan um I will say in the year and a half that I spent on that board um after several months really mostly the first year noticing a lack of in my opinion uh much deserved respect and time by the SDA I feel good about the changes that I was able to make and I advocated very strongly that the STA be a presenter uh and not be a side comment by met Council representative uh talking about Metro Transit and barely getting mentioned for anything uh the the STA is uh representing many many cities and many riders and a huge population and we weren't getting the respect so I leave behind a position that now has a regular update scheduled after the Met Council the airport commission the mpca the Suburban Transit Association representative gets a chance to give a full update and I've been giving those Updates this year since we made that change in January um and once a quarter the STA is a presenter and brings in a PowerPoint presentation giving a full comprehensive update on all the STA members and none of that existed prior to me taking over that position so um as much as I would love to have stayed on it I feel great about um putting SDA in a position where they are at the table truly and not an afterthought um uh the the chamber public policy committee is planning on a candidate Forum which I'll be in which feels weird saying that I'm passing on that information did Jennifer say it's going to be virtual uh yes it is um it is going to be virtual um and it's coming up in October um you have to go through emails but I can I can share with you I'll find it she sent out to all the candidates uh date and time to ask if this work isn't early October so I don't think she has published that yet because she's got to hear back yeah because she talked about it at our meeting but she didn't I don't believe that she was it there wasn't a date I do believe she said that she would follow uh i-35s has taken the month of August off as many committees did and uh so and we actually didn't have anything pressing and the September meeting was uh uh canceled so we'll get back together in October NLC meetings are just kind of gearing back up there was they took a month off as well um Greg and Ryan um our Savage Burnsville meeting I'm going to report on that if I'm missing something um please fill in uh one of the things that I want to just let everybody know a lot of what we do is we share what's going on between our two cities and then give updates and uh one of the things that Savage wanted to know is how to uh we do community events and the city's participation and Greg was able to share with them what it is that we do with regard to staff contribution to the events but no cash so that was one of the things that they wanted to talk about anything else that I missed I mean I'm going to just shorten all of this stuff up shared the information with the administrator yeah so the other is that THC they wanted to know what we were doing whether we were going to do a moratorium we we said that we have staff working on that and that we would be getting a report but we're going to just continue to do the research and wait for the legislature so that we're not making decisions that's going to have to be reverted after this the legislature convenes in February the other was code enforcement they wanted to understand what we were doing with code enforcement and we were able to talk to them about what we're doing in our code enforcement task force there anything else I'm just going to shorten all of this then Ryan talked about the Highway 13 funding opportunities that we have because we have been working very closely with Savage on the 13th Corridor and they've been very helpful on all of our initiatives and we talked about the Nicolette Avenue and uh Brian you talked about the the grant opportunities that yeah but we didn't get the rice right we didn't get a raise no we um lately are in line for a 10 million dollar Grant from the tap but that's not finalized yeah but if we do them that will help us uh yeah and that we're waiting for the three million that uh congresswoman Angie Grant uh Angie yeah um yeah okay sorry yes uh Craig put in for uh through appropriation and that should be coming later on this year so we'll see it's gone through two now it has to pass on a vote of uh of the house and then Ryan gave an update on bsli landfill and the freeway and Kramer Mining and and materials and uh uh Then Greg and Ryan um they wanted to know about our Union contracts and Greg gave a report and an update on that and uh and then our facilities update um other than that um Regional Council of Mayors met on Monday and um Greg is going to be sending you the economists um PowerPoint presentation that was very interesting uh and um Metro cities we've completed our work right Greg and Hugo we've completed our work with Metro cities and there's nothing else that we're going to do there um the Burnsville Community Foundation we didn't meet because of the Burnsville Festival you catching on it only takes one time to correct and and so that's that's my report uh Greg anything else from staff mayor members of the council just a reminder that on October 3rd you have we have uh our next uh joint meeting with the school board so I'll be providing uh the school district with a brief agenda we'll be at fire station one um BJ and his folks will be providing a tour a brief summary of uh our fire operations and then um we're also planning a just a kind of a round table discussion between the council and the board about increasing our partnership and and looking to the Future to strengthen partnership so um if there is no other comments from the council I'll assemble that agenda and get it along to the school district okay it's yes Dan uh before we adjourn [Music] there's something I missed in my comments about the festival it was evident to me sitting in on board meetings over the last 10 years representing the Heart of the City race that um the city was a was the largest partner to bring the festival to reality and uh you just said that now are you just seeing that now no I noticed over the last 10 years as I said and I encouraged the previous leadership to work more closely and embrace that partnership and uh and so one of the missions in in the new bigger better more inclusive Festival was to solidify that partnership and really truly bring the city to the table because the cost of this Festival was about a hundred and eighty thousand and there's about a forty thousand dollar number maybe bigger if we really did the Deep dive that the city offset um because as uh city manager uh Lindbergh had pointed out in a previous conversation about uh support that this Council had the number was rather large when you took in all of the cost related Public Safety streets Public Works Etc and and Parks so we have enjoyed an absolutely Kumbaya partnership from the get-go this year this past year Garrett sat in on some of our early meetings Amber and JJ were there BJ being on the board of course it has been a wonderful experience to work truly that close with the city at the table at every meeting at every step of the way and and have as I noted earlier what what the the heavy buckets that BJ carried uh amber stepped up early on and said let us run the Wednesday block party on the Plaza and it was I can't tell you how big of a relief I felt personally when she said that folks like Hallelujah it was a great City it was a phenomenal success we put some money better than any of the ones that I've been to in the past it we put some money to bring some entertainment we wanted kids to get face painting we wanted balloons we wanted a clown we wanted Inflatables we wanted it to be a really good fun kickoff because that's our first major uh in-person event um and you know the energy followed right into Thursday I will say the craft beer tasting um the biggest donation to 360s in recent time was last year at 230 people or twenty three hundred dollars uh I believe it was 3 600 this year so my goal was to take it to 400 people uh and I got close we're at 30 we had 360. um but it'll get bigger next year I'm stressing uh Dave at Red Line out a little bit because he's like you know the Plaza's only so big I got out we got room we get 500 in there we can go even higher um and then of course uh Friday is everybody knows got a little rained out but but really I want to get back just the the partnership from Greg from Hugo Hugo was sending me notes what can we do is there anything we can do uh in his group BJ being at the table Amber and JJ Garrett um it was fantastic and everybody and I said this before everybody that comes to the Burnsville Festival believes the city put it on and I like that so our our website was built around the city logo with you belong here everywhere on every page and in the header in many of the pages along with the school district and uh and so it I wanted the guest experience to be good I wanted it certainly to be inclusive but I also wanted people to understand that the city really is in many ways putting on that Festival along with over a hundred volunteers yeah so let's not push that too much because they'll think that property tax money is paying for the festival oh no sponsor page and you'll find out why it's not a big property tax drain like other cities who don't have any sponsors and the city actually pays for the whole thing or most of it our long list of sponsors is is significant and that's who helps bring it but the city does a big share the city is the largest sponsor let's put it that way no one gets close to the amount of support that the city provides and I want people to understand that the city Greg and our staff are truly committed to making it a great experience for everybody absolutely and so and that's the first time right yes thank you Greg it's going to get bigger and bigger and bigger thank you BJ thank you Hugo no we have to build a Amphitheater into the side of the Hill um like the Red Rocks of the North and you're going to raise all the money to do that right the Lions already said pay for it yeah it's gonna be the Lion's Amphitheater and Garrett and I are sitting here they you know wait a minute there are some other things that have more priority up on top than that so thank you uh everybody Ryan it was a great partner Tom Garrett very very close membership Don Jenny Bethany and oh Carissa and and the fun van [Laughter] I mean our whole staff I mean and uh thank you for the press release Carissa wrote a outstanding press release that got us to appear on KSTP on Saturday before the event so it was a wonderful interview that was a great one yeah except for that one email that you and I got really well the one emailed that you and I got from somebody who heard you on KSTP yeah but we we handled that the classic car yeah we like 1975 and older Donna green who runs the classic car show and someone felt like well if I've got a 1983 you're not inclusive if I can't bring my 1983 and you restrict it to 75 and older uh anything else anybody want to talk about anything I think everybody is ready to go to bed here for a long long time Michelle do you have anything without objection We Stand adjourned thank you foreign