[0:03] Mayor Mary Fasbender: seeing none they are approved comments from the audience are invited to speak one at a time i also want to remind everyone that the public comment period is not intended for extended dialogue is there anyone here that would like to speak to the council at this time [0:27] Mayor Mary Fasbender: okay i see no one [0:35] Mayor Mary Fasbender: council items to be considered council is there are there any items to be considered tonight okay consent agenda council i would accept a motion to approve the consent agenda motion to approve councilmember with a second by council member fulch any discussion clerk henderson please call the role [1:10] Clerk Henderson: yes yes but we can't hear you clark henderson can't hear you well is this better thank you yes uh council member fox yes council member lightfield yes councilmember lund yes councilmember bronx yes bender yes that motion prevails awarding of contracts tonight agreement for legal services between the city of hastings and campbell knutson professional association for this item we will have city [1:56] Mayor Mary Fasbender: administrator dan waticha give us an update [2:06] Dan Wietecha: thank you and also point out that uh we've got henry skip shafer who would be handling the prosecution work uh in our meeting this evening so after introducing the uh the contract to be any particular questions or want to maybe a chance to introduce we've certainly got room for that this is taking into account several items on tonight's agenda we uh closing out on over 58 years with the fleegle law firm and over the past couple of months had some discussions with the mayor as well as with uh the management staff [2:53] Dan Wietecha: um in terms of how do we proceed uh and we looked at a list of a number of firms uh met with several of them uh and my recommendation is that we split the contract in two and uh work with two firms one for the prosecution service uh which uh historically has been about two-thirds of the the work that uh dan has done for us uh and then also a separate contract for the uh the civil side which is uh the other third it's the the piece that you guys are most uh uh familiar with it's having the attorney at our meeting [3:39] Dan Wietecha: um when we have contracts that are reviewed or ordinance that are drafted um all of that falls into that civil area so it's more the the face that the city council is used to but really there's there's two functions very important to us um newton is a really just a powerhouse uh in terms of uh prosecution work they're located in eagan and serve a number of our peer communities in the county they do actually some training for police departments in terms of what they should know in terms of some of the the legal background on their operations [4:27] Dan Wietecha: highly respected uh just every reference check we came uh that we made just came back glowing uh so uh in the recommendation to split the contract it's it's really we're trying to get the best services we can uh from two different firms so recommending campbell knutson for uh the prosecution side and that's the item on the agenda at the moment any questions i'll certainly stand for those or can certainly turn it over to attorney shaffer to introduce himself or answer any questions directly of the firm great thank you dan council any questions for [5:14] Mayor Mary Fasbender: mr schaefer councilmember folch honor dan i was wondering how much is it that you're annually spending on attorney services and how does this impact the budget by having two firms on for retainer [5:37] Dan Wietecha: uh i can't give you the number off the top of my head whether we have one or two firms is not going to drastically reduce our our expenses we are i do expect that 2021 is going to be more expensive than what we've had in the past i think that's partly a nature of the length of time that we've been with [5:59] Dan Wietecha: fleeva law firm that just sort of it becomes friendly and easy to hey we'll carry it at the same rate or a modest inflationary increase but haven't kept pace with market rates i think also there's probably some savings we've been realizing working with a smaller firm than a larger firm uh just a matter of it has some less overhead so the hourly rate is going to be higher than what we've been paying um don't know exactly what that amount will be but i expect it to probably be forty to fifty thousand dollars over the course of the year between the the the totality of both [6:45] Dan Wietecha: firms um that's not a matter of working with one or two companies if we worked with one company replacing fleegal law firm we'd probably be looking at a similar increase in cost so it's not a matter of splitting the contract it's just a matter of changing firms there are particularly on the civil side i think that there are some room that we would look at for trying to ameliorate those increases but that's more of an internal operation our current this is getting ahead to the next item but our current retainer with legal law firm [7:31] Dan Wietecha: is really large in encompassing a lot of items so it's easy and it's been habit for staff if they've got a question to call up the attorney and it's good to get that advice with lavander instead of that large scope of service within the retainer it's going to be much much tighter so we'll see more hourly charges i think that we can adjust some of our operations one if it was a relatively simple call that we could have looked on the league of cities website which has just a lot of background on statutes or [8:16] Dan Wietecha: requirements put some of the burden on staff to look look on the league website rather than calling the attorney so there's one place that we can uh hopefully find some economy the other would be um uh be uh organizing how we or who's authorized or how we make calls to the attorney's office so it might have been easy for a staff person to call the attorney with a question and well now let's run it through a department head in order to sort of vet and make sure that we're more judicious in the calls that we make and with that hopefully reducing some of the the billable hours [9:05] Dan Wietecha: so i'm answering more than what your question was about how does splitting the contract impact the budget really the impact on the budget is changing firms it's not that we're splitting the contract that said although i expected that by the end of the year we will see a significant increase in costs we will throughout the year try to mitigate and minimize what those increases are hmm i just think that it's interesting that um you're asking us to adopt something where you haven't looked at what the budget impacts are going to be necessarily and you can articulate um [9:51] Councilmember Folch: how that is um and or furthermore how it is that you're going to streamline operations so i guess i'm a little concerned but i'll yield the the budget impacts will depend on the actual number of hours that we wind up calling on if we call on the same level as we have the past several years it is in the range of 40 to 50 000. [10:21] Councilmember Folch: i understand what you're saying i i think that it's um i think it is actually a good thing to allow staff to be able to contact the city attorney's office furthermore i know how important it is to be able to have strong relationships with the city attorney's office and feel comfortable in asking just even the stupid questions because it's the stupid questions that get you in trouble in the end if you don't ask them because um you thought they were stupid and they really weren't and so um so i i guess i i would i i wouldn't try to curtail staff um contacting and feeling that they can have a you know strong relationships with the city attorney's office for for items that they they want review of um even stupid contracts little ones [11:09] Councilmember Folch: should be reviewed because god knows they get little uh provisions that are stuck in them that really staff when they least expect it and so um so i i i would be just the opposite i think that it's important for staff to be able to have on those relationships but um and then when i was looking at uh the civil um attorney's uh packet it looked like that there was a little bit of an expansion of scope of service where they also provide some legislative policy types of recommendations which um i don't believe that um we have utilized with uh the legal law firm in the past and so were you actually intending on using that scope of service or was it just [11:55] Councilmember Folch: like something that's within their wheelhouse that they provide in general i believe that's in their wheelhouse because to be honest i don't recall that in there i trust it is i just i don't recall it it certainly was not anything that came up in our either of our interviews or discussions with them so i think it more is a wheelhouse item [12:22] Dan Wietecha: okay but if we could i i recognize that that because we're looking at splitting the contract that there's uh some entanglement between the two but if questions specific to the civil one if we could maybe hold those to when we're working on that one the the item before us at the moment is the prosecution okay uh thank you councilmember falch any question any other questions for dan or mr schaefer mr schaefer if you want to speak a little bit you can [13:07] Mayor Mary Fasbender: if you'd like to introduce yourself uh sure thank you mayor uh good afternoon council members and uh thanks for inviting me i guess i should start off with uh we are very excited um at the prospect of being your city attorney prosecutors for um your criminal cases and uh we're very pleased to uh have been invited uh to make a a proposal to you um should we vote um we are definitely excited and ready to uh to what to to walk right in um i'm hoping for a smooth transition with mr fleegle it's something that we talked a little bit about timeline wise and it sounds like [13:14] Skip Schafer: something we'll be able to get started on right away should we get the contract be glad to answer any other questions regarding accessibility that sort of thing i know that uh the deputy chief of the police was at the interview and had a lot of questions about accessibility and whatnot and we're able to answer those questions we've got five full-time prosecutors that are available and working with the police department and they have decided i believe that it would be more of a division head or through their command staff for contacting us um as far to answer some of uh councilmember folsha's questions about [14:39] Skip Schafer: costs and whatnot and how that might be different from the previous city attorney i don't think it's going to be much different i think most of the questions and advice seeking that comes from the police department is usually channeled through their command staff and i think that's how they indicated that it would continue to be with us there are some fixed costs with respect to um dedicated calendars that the city of hastings will be expected to appear in court on and raymond calendars and pre-trial calendars things of that nature which are fixed the other kind of unknowns depend on what kind of cases go to trial and whether or not the pandemic is going to create actually more calendars or if [15:24] Skip Schafer: they're going to be able to consolidate them as the new uh remote court hearings continue so there are some unknowns um ultimately we are certainly open open to discussing a retainer i think our proposal also has a provision where after six months we can come and take a look at it again take a look at our hours and ultimately see if a retainer might be something that's more mutually beneficial for everybody so that's that's certainly all on the table thank you mr schaefer any questions counsel forward [16:10] Mayor Mary Fasbender: and i would accept a motion to approve the agreement for legal services between the city of hastings and campbell knutson professional association so moved johnner council member vaughn second councilmember brox any additional discussion council listen please call the rule [16:40] Clerk Henderson: yes council member folch or fox for life field yes council member lund yes coach member brock's yes mayor fassbender yes and that motion prevails [16:58] Mayor Mary Fasbender: mr shafer and we look forward to working with you thank you very very much and we also look forward to working with you guys too thank you you're welcome okay then the second part would be the city of hastings legal services agreement with lavander gillen and miller for this item we also will have uh dan teacher our city administrator [17:34] Dan Wietecha: thank you and corey land is unable to introduce herself tonight but certainly will be a the vote is approved we'll will certainly be a regular fixture going forward um uh is mentioned already uh recommending that we split the contract uh into two prosecution and civil [17:46] Dan Wietecha: uh when we were interviewing on the civil side uh what really stood out with lavander and attorney land in particular was um they that she has the uh obviously the the basic skill and knows the municipal law um well uh but the other features that really impressed us were twofold one her responsiveness when talking with other cities that she works for they talked about how quick she is to respond she's only a text away [18:32] Dan Wietecha: uh if she's in the middle of a meeting and you try to contact her she'll respond with a text saying hey i'm in a meeting i'll call you back in 10 minutes 20 minutes whatever it might be so just that um so even though we're we're one of the things that we really have appreciated at the staff level working with dan fleegle is his responsiveness uh hearing a similar responsiveness with this other firm really um echoed in in our minds the other part that we really appreciated was in the the reference checks we were able to talk with uh neighboring cities very similar to hastings she works for stillwater [19:18] Dan Wietecha: west st paul cottage grove so similar size metro suburb outer suburbs cities that have growth and development issues so a lot of the areas that are comparable to hastings and that we rely on the attorney's office to assist with so uh when when comparing that with other firms that we were talking with this really stood out uh head and shoulders above the others and comfortable recommending that we go forward with lavander for the civil side i can certainly stand for any questions also note uh while attorney shaver was talking i quick scrolled through the [20:03] Dan Wietecha: 25 pages of material so i hope i caught the line that council member folts was referring to if i missed the the right line i apologize uh it looked like what that reference is about legislative work uh is just as a matter of their duties there regularly because because of her focus on municipal law she's regularly monitoring what's going on at the legislative level tied in with metro cities and league of minnesota cities in terms of are there potential legislative changes that would impact us or other other municipal clients that you know she would pass on information [20:49] Dan Wietecha: or coaching or you know help advise if we might have a change or something needed i don't believe it's a matter of lobbying on our behalf it's more just giving us updates on changes in the law so i hope that answers the question from earlier thank you dan council member vaughn [21:16] Councilmember Vaughn: thank you honor this is going out for council member fulcher's question dan did we keep legal law firm on a retainer for at least a month for the crossover or has that gone on already i'm assuming we're going to see some extra costs here while we pass current cases or current projects that are on dan's desk that are going to get transferred over we're uh our i might ask dan for guidance on this one [21:35] Dan Wietecha: our uh proposal is that uh effective tomorrow the 17th corey land would be named our city attorney and that just gives some clarity that if something comes up is she responding or not responding and expect that if there's some overlap uh it's something that dan fleegle would more be advising under under lavander's umbrella so to speak so the change is immediate uh but do expect that um some matters are you know in the works are ongoing [22:20] Dan Wietecha: there'll be a little bit of overlap expect that in the first couple of weeks you know cory will obviously be meeting with staff to hear about particular issues or thoughts at parks or community development she'll also sit down and have some conversations with uh dan in terms of getting up to speed and how we transfer the files we're going to leave that to the attorneys to figure out how they actually move those but will certainly assist where need need be okay thank you thank you councilman vaughn any additional questions [23:06] Mayor Mary Fasbender: council okay seeing none i would accept a motion to approve the city of hastings legal services agreement with lavander gillen and miller so move drama councilmember juan i'll second your honor in a second by council member fox any additional discussion clerk anderson please call the rule [23:38] Clerk Henderson: council member vaughn yes council member folch yes council member fox yes councilmember lund yes council member [23:52] Clerk Henderson: lifeville yes host member brock's yes mayor fassbender yes and that motion prevails tonight we have a public hearing for a building permit fees for this item we will have an introduction by community development director john hinsman followed by a public hearing and action by city council john welcome [24:20] John Hinzman: thank you mayor city council members tonight before you you have a public hearing and second reading of an ordinance amendment this is amending chapter 34 relating to building department fees the purpose of this was prompted by recent action from dakota electric [24:38] John Hinzman: they're going to require installation of new load management devices and all homes within its territory and so with each one of these devices an inspection needs to occur and we need to be able to establish a fee to uh to collect for that in reviewing our building department fees we also took a look at it holistically for things that may need to be increased and fees that were no that were not there that should be there we did find a couple of other items uh particularly related to a mobile home installation which we uh we do not feel that we are collecting adequate fees for our services for the installation of a new mobile home changing that from 100 to 200 and then for window replacements going from 65 to 100. [25:22] John Hinzman: our electrical fees were not codified within the city codes we are proposing that they be included within the fees no changes to those fees so i can stand for any questions to these and this is a public hearing so you can open that at this time as well thank you thank you john at this time we will open the public hearing and i'll scan see if we have any at this time the public hearing is open if anyone wishes to speak to this please use the raised hand motion seeing none at this time i will close the public hearing and counsel any discussion [26:17] Councilmember Folch: not seeing any uh council member fulch well i guess your honor i was questioning the mobile home installation for a hundred to two hundred dollars and so that would only be in the case where there's a new home that's going into place john or is this something that would also be necessary you know i've talked to residents in the past in the in the mobile home parks and they've complained about how um they've been they've had to they've had to endure changes to various um attachments onto their mobile homes i want to say it was electrical meters um and so i just they just seem to be get they just get hit with the darndest [27:04] Councilmember Folch: extra fees and um it just so i'm just concerned about it being uh there a doubling of a fee for the mobile home uh park residents if this is going to be something that's um going to be widespread or is this like a a one-time and you're done it's just when it's when a new mobile home goes into place so if you could just talk to that a little bit yeah sure call the member folger the increase in fee the mobile home installation permit is just for the initial installation of the home so this is not including any other permits so that would be necessary so this would be a one-time fee for the initial installation we're basing that upon the number of visits that we normally have for inspections taking a look that [27:49] John Hinzman: we're usually out there three to four times during that process to make sure things are installed correctly okay thank you thank you councilmember folch any other discussion console remember here um john i just had a question about your methodology so when we're when we're adjusting the fees and we look at comparable communities i assume we do some kind of comparison between our fees in hastings and surrounding communities do we look at the communities that are closest to us so in within closest proximity or do we look at communities that are of similar size in different parts of the state can you just talk maybe a little bit about the process of how these fees were [28:38] John Hinzman: determined sure councilmember when we're looking at neighboring communities for fees i always look at the type of communities that are similar to us from a size standpoint and from a development standpoint ideally looking for a city around 20 000 that has growth and has some some historic areas as well i think those are the most comparable in nature so we use those to make a determination so that's one end but you know what are our neighbors doing the other end is is taking a look at what we provide for services and typically when we take a look at making a visit to a site we generally attribute you know about 50 to that that cost to make that visit and then any other fees that we have in [29:22] John Hinzman: staff time and reviewing internally thank you that makes sense thank you councilmember any other discussion okay council i would look for a motion to accept a motion to approve an ordinance of the city of hastings minnesota amending city code section 34.03 fee scheduling [29:53] Councilmember Leifeld: so moved your honor council member liefeld i'll second your honor and council member fox any additional discussion clerk henderson please call the roll [30:08] Clerk Henderson: council member vaughn yes council member folch yes council member fox yes coast member life field yes council member lund yes councilmember brox yes mayor fassbender yes and that motion prevails tonight council we have a public hearing to amend the city code for the parklets for this item we have [30:45] John Hinzman: an introduction by community development director john hinsman followed by a public hearing this will be brought back for action at a further meeting so john you may continue sure thank you mayor and city council members i'm going to speak briefly and turn it over to eric moss we'll be presenting some background on the parklet proposal again as the mayor had noted we had originally scheduled this for a second reading and public hearing of an ordinance amendment during the review of the ordinance there are some key questions that we'd like to ask and discuss tonight so we are moving forward with the public hearing but we are not asking for any action tonight so with that i will turn it over to economic development coordinator eric moss [31:25] Eric Moss: thank you john thank you council spare with me a moment i'm going to share my screen that can be enabled by participants um really again the goal for tonight is to have a discussion about uh the framework of the parklet ordinance one thing staff has been trying to do is reaching out to various vendors to understand how these parklets would kind of come together and trying to identify any potential issues with the ordinance prior to actually bringing it forward for adoption so in essence we're trying to give it a dry run before it's actually put into into play in the hopes that it's a smoother process for all involved [32:07] Eric Moss: the concept of parklets is not necessarily a new thing for even the state of minnesota a quick google search revealed a little over a half dozen communities both in the metro and in greater minnesota that currently were at one time allowed for parklets within their communities those that might be joining us that maybe are less familiar with the kind of setup last year and what sparked this whole concept of parklets originally the city of hastings allowed for parklets in response to restrictions placed on businesses as a result of the coven 19 pandemic here you see an image of second street four of the parklets that were put into place uh this map was provided by obsidian excuse me public works director nick egger i see there the [32:54] Eric Moss: dimensions of the barcodes from last year as well as the number of parking stalls that each used up and the uh rerouted pedestrian experience if you will where the sidewalk was pushed out into the street to allow for the insult of the parklets themselves by looking forward into 2021 and the summer and in the future years businesses had a positive response to the parklets both from a standpoint of safety in response to the kova 19 pandemic and the ability to eat and drink outdoors but also the overall experience of being able to enjoy themselves outdoors when of course weather allows last year is to provide kind of a baseline there were 15 spots that were [33:39] Eric Moss: by parklets 15 parking spots that is just along 2nd street within that first block so just kind of put a pin in that number my friends parking is always a big issue in communities and these things is no different another image that nick edgar was able to produce showing the various parking improvements that the city is made throughout the downtown especially in total there's 385 public parking spots not including street parking in and around the downtown area right now based on feedback we've gotten from area businesses we estimate that about 18 spots along second street at this time would be impacted by parklets um at least those that were in the downtown [34:24] Eric Moss: all right we understand this is a big big issue for the community and so for that we in creating this ordinance have engaged in some community engagement and talking with individual businesses i've met one-on-one with a handful we've also done a survey got 24 responses you see there in blue kind of a summary of what those responses entailed both areas for improvement as well as the good that came from them as well as the downtown business association discussed booklets at at least one of their meetings costs certainly always cost money right another thing staff has been trying to ascertain through the ordinance processes is what these costs you know as heddrick considers grant opportunities and also recognizing that businesses uh may be [35:10] Eric Moss: struggling right now and that this would be yet another bill that would need to be paid staff has found everything from roughly ten thousand to forty thousand uh based on contractor and material type um of course these are all contractors there's still the potential and the ordinance would not require that a business use a contractor they could diy it now certainly they would still have to meet building code and ada and go through the building process building permit process that is but certainly there could be additional cost savings even off that 10 000 number to make sure that these are affordable to our business owners also in terms of cost the optimization of course the more expensive the profits became and something that was noted by a number of those contractors was angular so staff put together a handful [35:57] Eric Moss: of autocad drawings sent those off dimensions and angles and they came back and said yes it's possible but it's very expensive and so as a result we looked at you know what are some other options for that i do want to note that it's still the intention of city staff that city would not own operate purchase or otherwise manage the parklets they would be owned and operated by individual businesses and our pursuit of cost estimates are simply up for staff knowledge for creating the ordinance another area we looked at in terms of trying to lessen the cost potentially is what could we do in conversation with the city's building official we talked about the street ability in this case looking at second street and [36:43] Eric Moss: the crown of that road and the slope that it created unfortunately the crown of that road did not adhere to state accessibility code and so the for that reason staff on the street services being something that could be used going forward also with respect to sidewalk the intention at this point is that the sidewalk would remain um or would not be impacted and that it would remain whereas as is and keeping pedestrians out of the travel portion of the right-of-way uh here you get to the angular layout so here you see a drawing that staff put together showing how a park that would fit impacting two stalls um at an angle that was that's the drawing that was provided to other designers that we got that feedback on regarding the customized construction and what that [37:29] Eric Moss: would take their recommendation was to square to the curb advantages to that however because of the angular parking when you look at the requirement of being 20 feet off the center line of the road a foot inside from each parking line um you really don't get much usable space at only two and really a third parking saw wouldn't would be necessary to be impacted uh to make it really it's basically worthwhile um to have it at that third spot you can get to a dimension of 20 by 16 as shown in the drawing seeking feedback from council as it relates to the shape of the parklets whether or not [38:15] Eric Moss: it follow the angular parking and the impact of three versus two i'm getting and reviewing the last year's parklets and then that 15 number i told you to put a pin in that was the number of spots taken up last year if allowed at three spots per parklet it's anticipated that same area would be utilized as 12. [38:34] Eric Moss: so even with bumping it from two to three we still see a net reduction in the number of parking space this is taken up by parklets by three so we do see that as a positive because certainly parking spaces was something that got brought up through the community engagement process so with that i'll stand for any questions and we can open the public hearing thank you eric at this time i will open the public hearing if you would like to speak please use the raised hand feature again this is now a public hearing anyone in the audience that would like to speak to this please use the raised [39:19] Mayor Mary Fasbender: and feature seeing none i'll close the public hearing and at this time council discussion [39:35] Councilmember Folch: thank you your honor um thank you eric for all the work that you've been doing i've had a few conversations with business owners downtown and they've definitely have noticed and appreciate all of your efforts and and that you're frequently in the downtown talking to business owners and that you're following up and asking them pointed questions and so thank you for for doing all of that um i was curious about um about utilizing the street surface i read your memo and i just couldn't follow it um where you were saying something to the effect that the street has an incline of like 1.8 percent of an angle and something about two percent and blah [40:20] Councilmember Folch: blah blah it made no sense to me so you i know that there was uh there was concern you know that a few of the business owners had actually expressed their desire to use the street surface um rather than having to have a platform and uh and so i had attended the downtown business association you know meeting for this last month um of february and you know and a few of them were expect you know expressing that concern that they would like to be able to use just the just the street service and then secondly when it when we had asked you approximately how much these uh parklets were gonna cost you had said that just a base parklet would like a basic one with no bells and whistles was a thousand [41:06] Councilmember Folch: dollars and when i'm reading your memorandum it looks like it's at a minimum eleven thousand dollars for a basic one and that's a low bid going up to like i think the top end was almost 40 000 and again i'm not sure i don't think that that was including all of the planters and things of that nature so um that's quite that's quite a difference um eleven thousand dollars um versus one thousand dollars and so um kit so i i'm really concerned about that and i know some of the businesses may be able to have the cash to be able to do this but um there's no guarantee that everyone is you know considering the economic situation gonna have eleven thousand dollars for um for a parklet so can you uh speak to that a [41:53] Councilmember Folch: little bit um i'll be quiet for a moment here thank you councilmember folch um so to your first question and on the 1.8 and i apologize for the confusing nature i started a dream in parklets and so i might have gotten too far into the weeds on that um so the second street the road has a crown to it so that when it rains when there's precipitation of any kind um the water runs to the curb line and then into the storm drain and then into our sewer system and so that that same slope that guides water to the curb line is that same slope that presents an issue from an accessibility standpoint within the minnesota building code and accessibility code according to our building official travis dunn so that's why the surface at this point is not viewed as a viable [42:39] Eric Moss: option i understand it was used last year with the parklets but understanding that that was more of a rapid response uh usage and this we're trying to be a little bit more thoughtful and creating guidelines for them so that's why we're not recommending that at this time going forward so again just so that i understand so over a nine or ten foot surface that there's a one point eight percent angle towards the curb line that that makes it not i guess i'm still not i'm still not understanding how that's a very minimum i'm sure that there's houses older than that you know old houses around here that don't have um flat surfaces you know that would so it's so i guess i'm just lost as to you know why it is that a very very minimal angle to the street [43:27] Councilmember Folch: surface would um preclude us from being able to use the street surface i'm sorry call me stupid but it's like 1.8 angle what so um you're gonna have to do a little bit better than that i i'm just not tracking how that makes it not viable council member folks fair question um not being the building official i guess i won't try and expand upon that any greater what i can do is i don't know the answer now but i can find that answer and perhaps what i can do and you know to follow up on that one is travis and i and john can put our heads together and provide something to counsel with a little bit more detail and using travis's knowledge and expertise with respect to the accessibility code to further answer that question um but i probably won't be able to go any deeper this evening on that [44:13] Eric Moss: okay that's also why we just uh after the public hearing this evening and not adoption so as questions come up we can respond to those adjust it and then hopefully be ready on the first of march the other question comes from me before she asked was the cost and why we're looking at contractor companies that you know have additional overhead have costs and profit margins there's certainly the ability and staff has found literature where they've priced out by going to home depot sourcing pallets that there is such thing as a thousand dollar apartment that a business owner could pursue on their own diy approach to a parklet staff would support them in that and help them get through the building code issues to create something that would both function and be safe that is something they could pursue [44:58] Eric Moss: so that's where that thousand dollar came from and then reaching out to specific businesses those are the numbers they kicked back since publishing the packet as we've continued to reach out to various contractors we got one in that came in just under ten thousand that included all the not only the decking but also the install and the planters on the outside and such we're slowly chipping away at that that is something also that heddra is looking at again helping to reduce some of those costs and and in the end we're trying to reduce as many barriers as we can barriers to entry for business owners we would see this as something that should be usable by as many as possible but in the end um there will be a cost and our hope is that as many can take advantage of this as possible [45:43] Eric Moss: but if it's just not feasible for some it just might not be but again our hope is that the ordinance itself doesn't price people out and that if they are able to again diy they can come up with something that will fit their budgets does that answer your question council member folks i guess it does um but then to your question about um having a right angle versus a you know what a slanted angle i don't know what the angle would be at so you said that that was much more cost prohibitive um not to have right angles on these surfaces and so what's the you're asking us to give you um feedback on that [46:29] Councilmember Folch: and so um but you haven't clarified as to you know what is the difference if it's if it's a quote unquote significant difference i wouldn't be in favor of having those angled parklets i think it makes sense to have them squared because um it would better utilize the space so that they can actually put tables out there and and probably most efficiently use use that space um plus i personally i think it's a bad idea to allow cars to get up too close um to those to those if they were if they were all angled it just seems to me like you'd be squeezing vehicles in between um these these uh patios and it might be better to to [47:15] Councilmember Folch: allow a little bit more space around them so people aren't nicking or hitting or getting too close and opening a car door or something like that and hitting them and so i think that it's a good idea but um so anyhow just back to that that question about how much more costly is it for the so if it was ten thousand dollars for one to be constructed by um someone like i couldn't do a dyi i mean heck to the no i would totally need someone to come in and do that for me and so um so let's just say it's ten thousand dollars what would be the increase about councilmember the the lowest quote i got for an angled one was thirty thousand dollars ten thousand versus thirty holy hannah okay and i guess me if i could i could restate the question to council [48:00] Eric Moss: would be is council comfortable with impacting one more stall per parklet recognizing that it would still be a net reduction over last year essentially in favor of allowing for the square parklets to be used as opposed to angular i'm personally comfortable with it because as you had said you'd gone from 18 what had been 18 parking spots to this would be 15. and and when i've been uh engaged in the conversations with the downtown business association um the the owners they're more concerned about traffic being able to flow at all times along the main street coming and going [48:46] Councilmember Folch: rather than the number of uh parking stalls that will not be able to be utilized um they had they went on at length about how they heard a lot of feedback when the barriers were up that people thought that the downtown was under construction and they couldn't kind of figure out how to get down there or things were open and so so that so um it was very clear from the conversations that i was listening to that that was their their primary concern was just traffic being able to flow freely along on second street okay thanks thank you councilmember falch councilmember leiffeld thank you honor so just a few questions [49:31] Councilmember Leifeld: around some of the numbers but the accessibility issue part due to that slope so how thoroughly have we re have we looked into the ramp option like what we did last year when they weren't built up i mean i know there's compliance here 88 compliance that sort of thing and obviously we want to make sure we're you know taking care of that and making the right choices but the reality is a 16 by 20 decking over the ground that's where the money's going to be there is absolutely no way you can build that structure unless you go dumpster diving for wood for a thousand dollars just for that structure and that doesn't [50:17] Councilmember Leifeld: include any safety railings anything decorative on it um you know i thought i heard someone mention the word palettes but they've got a three inch four inch gap in between them that's obviously not an option um i i can't imagine even for a diy individual which i definitely am one of those i don't know how you could do this i mean just in lumber alone for less than three thousand dollars and that's if you have the knowledge um so i'd really like to see us look real extensively at what other accessibility options do we have because then we're also talking about picking out up and moving it or taking it apart and they're having to move it and find a location for it [51:04] Councilmember Leifeld: that's an awful lot more space this obviously minnesota we can't leave it there all winter we're gonna have to pick them up and move them um 16 by 20 that's a pretty that's another job all by itself is the deconstructing and putting it away so i guess i would really like us before our next meeting to look at the um ada compliance in regards to the ramps that we had installed last year to to correct that i mean and then when you're also talking about building it you also have to have someone a diyer who's going to build in that slant they have to take that slant out of the road so now we're not just talking throwing a bunch of lumber down on the ground and screwing it all together [51:50] Councilmember Leifeld: it has to be level with the curve now so there's an awful lot involved here um for what it is i think we're looking to do into council member folch's comment a bit ago about talking to businesses i've been hearing the same thing that they're excited about the foot traffic um that it is bringing people downtown having those sidewalks open again so people can walk directly past um their storefronts i've heard is a very exciting change and then um i would really just like to spend more time finding out i saw a word in there earlier in your presentation eric that said it wasn't a requirement it was a i don't know what was it a strong recommendation or something but [52:36] Councilmember Leifeld: you know it didn't i didn't see the law there so there i go back to her our attorneys to say okay what what is the the actual letter of the [52:58] Mayor Mary Fasbender: eric did you have anything to add no mayor other than i was taking notes and we'll follow up on that at the next one uh city administrator dan you did have your hand up did you no okay and council member vaughn thank you honor eric are these um proposed parklets owned then by the business owner is that correct in their i know last year we were hung up with the contiguous connection between the restaurant and there is that i think that's later on our agenda but would that be who will own the parklet and i see the insurance would have to be so i'm assuming it's a business but can the public use it just as a general place to use or do [53:45] Councilmember Vaughn: they is it solely that business gets to use it for their service council member vaughn the individual businesses would own the parklets and so being that they would own it my intention at least from a staff standpoint would be that they would then be able to restrict who could be there again they would be required to provide the insurance statements and all that and so because they would be liable i think it would then fall into line where they would be able to restrict and it would be for private use only i think i'll make a comment here your honor and thank you eric for that i think last year we did the parklets to assist a problem the problem was that restaurants were restricted they they couldn't use their place so we allowed a solution for them with the [54:30] Councilmember Vaughn: with the parklet concept i think that's great and i'm more that that was a problem that we solved and i think we still going to have a problem come this summer and that's why i think we need a solution a temporary solution to fulfill that a parklet this big time this investment by tax dollars because it can be a grant plus businesses are going to expected to bring some funding to come to this i don't know if i'd be doing any changes to ordinances during pandemics i think we need to get through the pandemic and then to discuss this because staff had talked about you know customer desire i i haven't heard from a lot of customers or did the business owners say their customers really enjoyed that um community engagement i bring this up at [55:16] Councilmember Vaughn: hedra this is we seem to be talking a lot about downtown but is this a community discussion and then i asked this uh ed header the other night is there a look back period there are some buildings downtown some businesses and throughout the community that made big investments already are they eligible for this grant for people that already made that investment do we go back three years saying hey i use my own money already i want to pay for that because look at the plaza that i created um with that so i think there's a lot of questions i'm glad we're not voting on tonight because i'm not sure that we should be looking at a long-term parklet discussion decision in the near future i think we need to get through the problem which is the pandemic and helping these businesses get through another summer how do we do that i don't know that i don't know if it's extending [56:04] Councilmember Vaughn: their space in front of their restaurant in front of the neighbor's business but i use the word um i don't think it's very when we give a private sector the option to say i i get specific use of that space in those public parking spots that's inequitable to the neighbor next to them because the neighbor next to them they say wait a second i got a business owner or and i got the business i want to rent some day we're going to change an ordinance that would potentially hurt them saying well what about those parking spots out there well you don't get to use them even though we use tax dollars to help fund them and it's on public property it's just that one business those are all big questions and big discussions i think we need to have i think we need to focus on getting through this pandemic and continue this discussion through our [56:49] Councilmember Vaughn: committee structure to get to where we need to get to thank you okay thank you councilmember vaughn councilmember [57:15] Councilmember Leifeld: thank you leiffeld um real quick then two in your notes if you could eric so the ada accessibility matter um since then we're now opening up the sidewalks and those businesses that we're referring to on second street do also have sidewalk seating for ada purposes would that then exclude the concern for the the oh not the not the accessibility but would that maybe preclude the answer to having to raise the entire structure so because we are having still our cafes style our sidewalk cafe [57:36] Councilmember Leifeld: open sidewalk and then the parkway and then to um council member vaughn um you know when we talk about the downtown again this is the only spot i keep going back to in the city of hastings where this is a concern it's the only place where the business doesn't have a parking lot in front of them who doesn't have private space in front of them or uh or a parking lot even at midtown center they have you know it's privately owned property if they want to close their parking lot to have a gathering of some sort they have the ability to do that um downtown this is the only location where you know the city we're in charge that's our that's our street you know we're the [58:22] Councilmember Leifeld: ones that closed it down for how many summers to you know bring these excellent you know amenities to the downtown area well now we've got to back it up and however i do think to councilmember vaughn's point this does require a look down the road as far as i see this as a long-term thing absolutely right now is that a necessity i'm not sure because we are talking expenses and to tell a business hey it could cost you anywhere from you know eight to forty thousand dollars to do this but you're gonna get more customers you know because they're going to have a place to sit i'm not sure this is the summer to do that recovering you know they're still saying hey wait a minute we are obviously not at capacity we're not making what we made [59:08] Councilmember Leifeld: two summers ago we're looking to help them as you said council member bond and that's what this is right now is it a band-aid absolutely other summer let's see how it pans out i say we go back not entirely to what we had last year you know but a um more of a makeshift feeling where we've got the sidewalks open but um i think we do have to be having this conversation now so that we can start planning for the future but um the expense to these businesses right now is just i can't imagine which business down there is doing so well that they can throw the money at this it's that's the whole point of all this is we're trying to help them bring in business we're trying to bring customers down there and gosh you know heaven forbid you know [59:54] Councilmember Leifeld: it's going to take them you know how many months or how many years to recoup that so um i do think this is something we have we have to do and when we keep talking about the equity of you know parking again there's not a whole lot of places in this in the state where you can go and park you know where you don't have to walk you know that's a great thing to be in i think it's a great problem for us to have i love going downtown and not being able to park on second street that just you know part of me is like oh i gotta walk but then the other part of me is so awesome that just means that all of these businesses are thriving and you know in this in the businesses and the city is doing something right so let's keep that going okay thank you councilmember lightfield councilmember [1:00:40] Councilmember Brocks: yeah my question is um for eric is do we have any business owner who has said um you know this is definitely something i'm going to do because here's my thought um i work in software development i've worked with software developers for many many years and usually when we're releasing something new we have a test run a pilot program we have a like a scenario that we work through it seems like there's a lot of open questions about this concept and whether or not it'll work whether or not it will be cost effective for the business owner and there's a lot of information i just feel like i don't have because i'm not running a business downtown would it be worth you know taking someone who's very interested [1:01:26] Councilmember Brocks: or has made a commitment i don't know if anybody has and saying you know kind of start running through the process that we've outlined or kind of how we see it working so that we could maybe find out where there's holes in our process or where the problems are going to be so that we could integrate those into the ordinance instead of we draft the ordinance we pass the ordinance then we set it out there and if nobody uses it or it has a lot of problems in it that we didn't think of you know we kind of have to work through that as we go and i know you're doing a lot of that work already so i i certainly don't want to say you haven't i just i'm concerned that you know we you and john and your team is spending a lot of work drafting this ordinance and then but i feel like we need like a real life scenario um that this is someone is running [1:02:13] Councilmember Brocks: through saying yes i want to do it and i've i've talked to these people and kind of do a pilot if you if you will but just to kind of troubleshoot what some of the open questions are because i think that would help me feel that um some of these holes in the process are kind of what the different concerns people are bringing up have have been run through a test case scenario that's just that was just an idea i had maybe you've already kind of done that um but i agree with council member vaughn that it feels like a more permanent solution to maybe a temporary problem i know there's other cities down with downtowns that have very well utilized their outside space and i don't know how many drinks or [1:02:59] Councilmember Brocks: meals it would take to equal twenty to forty thousand dollars or eleven thousand to forty thousand dollars or whatever range you wanna use but that's a lot of product to sell you know to cover some of that cost i just wanna make sure that what we're doing and what we're spending time on is something that that business owners actually want to utilize i guess that's my bottom line point okay thank you councilmember brock's uh councilmember vaughn thank you i just want to follow up to uh comments are her life at that point about being it's the only place in town true that it's publicly owned with businesses in there in that area take out the pandemic i haven't got a lot of phone calls to say we really should put parklets down [1:03:45] Councilmember Vaughn: here that's why i think this is a bigger discussion for the future but there is other businesses in this town that have used some of their parking lot that we as a city require them to have that many parking spots due to the pandemic they took away some of their parking spots to create a parklet concept last year um so i think if it is going to be a downtown thing now let's focus on downtown i think we were we're using the word community and and all those other things for for funding too i asked staff then if we're truly talking about downtown is it just second street i think going forward as we discuss this let's be very clear on what we're going to try to do because we're using public tax dollars for this as grants now if it was a loan different story because i think there's an economic benefit to that for the [1:04:32] Councilmember Vaughn: whole community i still reference back to these businesses and some are downtown that have made their own investment with their own dollars and i think i can't forget about i don't think anybody should forget about what they made for an investment and i got to recognize that so that's what i'm looking for the future i think we just have a problem with the pandemic that we need to get through i would actually think this is going to come back next fall next year type thing thank you thank you councilmember vaughn councilmember fulch thank your honor i think it's imperative that we deal with this immediately so that the businesses can begin to plan for the summer and get contractors on board if need be for um creating the [1:05:17] Councilmember Folch: the parklets and so um you know here's a little quip here's a little story so back in 1968 69 there was a pandemic that occurred it was called the hong kong flu believe it or not i thought my mom was making that up and i was hospitalized over the winter of 73 to 74 when my mom was pregnant with my doc with my sister and i was there for a week and my mom said she almost lost my sister and that was in 73-74 so it was like three or four years later after that pandemic had rolled through the country and that had not nearly the death toll that's happening now and so i just add that because if you think that this is going away in six months that is insanity this is here for the [1:06:03] Councilmember Folch: long haul and so we need to be planning for the next four to five years that as as the country begins to go through it i think that we need to keep our our eyes wide open and not just you know do wishful thinking and hope that this is just going to blink away because i mean if you're not paying attention to the news you should turn it on to listen to all the mutations that are happening and how that they think that they're actually becoming more um not only more contagious but more deadly and so um i think it's really important that we we continue to move ahead with this that we know that this is this is going to be in place for the next few years and that we we support the downtown uh business community at a minimum so that they um so that [1:06:48] Councilmember Folch: they survive through this because they're i mean it's clear to me that there's no way in heck that they're going to be filling their inside of their restaurants this summer or next winter or the summer after that if you listen to the predictions they don't think that our economy will begin to even rebound until um what is the summer of 2022 so um so we we really need to be forward thinking and we need to be supportive of our business community rather than just you know like i said doing the wishful thinking thing and so um so i would feel more comfortable if we had some better options about using the street surface and i appreciate eric um wanting to look into a little bit further with the building code official to really understand why is it that we can't um use the the [1:07:36] Councilmember Folch: street surface if this is really you know costly and there are some if there's a few business owners that maybe you know the first year it's an option that they they use the um the street service and in the second year they have to build a platform or something to that effect and ordinances can be changed in the future if we have problems with them i mean there's nothing you know cast in stone that says this is forever we could easily re-um evaluate how things went um in a year or two and make modifications to it um as as the the needs are are there and so i just really think that it's important that we um continue on this i get very discouraged when we hear when when when these kinds of conversations come up [1:08:21] Councilmember Folch: where we need more time we need to think about it we need to analyze it it's like oh for crying out loud that's why this council doesn't get a whole lot done proactively i think that we we need to focus on what we do know about the science behind this pandemic and we have heard overwhelmingly from our businesses downtown that they want our support and we know that the restaurants aren't going to be at 100 capacity for quite some time so those are the things that we do know and so i think that we should continue to progress and and i would really like to hear from the um from the businesses i thought um council members brock's her comments about hearing from them i think that was really relevant i think that the downtown business association provided some feedback [1:09:08] Councilmember Folch: to eric i'm not exactly sure what that feedback was it'd be nice to know what their main concerns were i saw that um amy fox from spiral brewery was in as one of the attendees um however she didn't say anything when um given the chance but i think it would be really wonderful at least at the next meeting to hear from the leadership of the downtown business association to know what it is that their thoughts are on the matter thank you councilmember falch eric did you want to speak thank you madam mayor um it's going back just a little bit here in terms of um costs we've talked about that a lot this evening currently as it's been talked about hedras has the basis for a grant program they've earmarked forty thousand dollars to help assist with that [1:09:54] Eric Moss: uh that would be a one-time expenditure currently available here in this coming year as is currently set up that could change but right now that's where that's coming from staff takes part in a monthly small business sounding board that includes politicians at the local state and federal levels during the conversation this past week it was mentioned that in the current relief bill being discussed at the federal level that currently included in that language is that expenditures such as a park letter for outdoor dining would be eligible for a one-time tax break as a result of again ongoing business restrictions so there's potential for even that cost over and above what perhaps a grant may cover could be tax deductible at the end of the year again it's not approved it's [1:10:39] Eric Moss: not signed so tbd but that is kind of hanging out there as a as a potential help to those businesses uh council member brock's asked in terms of the number of people kind of looking at this i reached out to the um to the council of vervon's comment the downtown businesses as this is where this is the most practically applicable there were six businesses that reached out saying that they were interested in pursuing this uh only one respondents thing that they were not looking to as they already had some outdoor space that they could utilize where's the we'll see downtown and then in terms of hearing from them uh staff did send out an email middle of the day today reminding about 40 plus or so downtown businesses including dba members about the discussion this evening if they wanted to voice any opinions or [1:11:25] Eric Moss: thoughts to the council directly they could again they would have that opportunity to do so tonight in terms of anything that staff has received from dba leadership did receive an email from amy fox outlining essentially the what was provided as a summary to the survey that was completed and that dba leadership really didn't have any additional comments beyond what was provided by the dba as a whole i think that's all my question so far uh with the exception of the ada which we will bring forward at next month's meeting okay thank you eric and councilmember lund thank you ron um so uh you know the comment was made about um [1:12:13] Councilmember Lund: making sure that we're we do something sooner than later not not thinking about it um i i guess one thing that we do know is that we don't know if i mean if there's anything that we've been able to see is the the roller coaster of reality over the past several months and and you know i just i think back to um boy you know march march april or whatever time frame it was i can't remember exactly but we we got together we talked about you know what what we could possibly do to help out you know there was a urgency that was was there but you know had we not tempered that urgency with with uh you know looking for what the other funding sources were going to be and so forth coming from federal and state and otherwise [1:12:59] Councilmember Lund: we would have probably spent the money that was given to for the heart grant before the heart rant was a thing and then that wouldn't have uh wouldn't have gone out so we gotta you gotta remember that you know yeah i i agree with you collins member fault it's frustrating sometimes the pace of government especially somebody coming from a you know a private business environment in my professional career but there is there is some value in you know having some humility and knowing that we don't know what we don't know when things are changing just a couple of days ago we were all going to have our vaccines by april now to june so you know that's just the truth um so what what i do think makes sense is we should look at this as a phase 20 was phase um band-aid to quote [1:13:48] Councilmember Lund: council member live felt right that was the let's get something done quick and we'll learn from it um 2021 maybe maybe 2021 is phase two of that where it's let's get something done to still address to council member vaughn's point the pandemic the need that's in front of us but let's do it a little nicer and a little better so it looks looks good and functions well i don't see why we can't look at this as a phased approach we fixed the problem immediately it didn't look very good but it worked we're probably going to have some of the same constriction restrictions or hesitancy by maybe people even if maybe uh capacity can be at 100 indoors maybe that's just not what people are comfortable with and so [1:14:34] Councilmember Lund: that's still the reality that businesses have to operate under um so so maybe the outdoor dining service area is still going to be in need because of the pandemic but you know i'm i'm hopeful that you know 2022 probably won't be the same and maybe it is and if it is then we still need to we need to roll with the punches but let's say 2022 is actually a a wonderful year and and things are completely turned around let's let's all hope well maybe this was still a really good idea but now it's an investment opportunity for these businesses if they want to make more of a permanent type of investment because they see it as a a revenue [1:15:19] Councilmember Lund: opportunity long term and so that's when we enter phase three of it so i don't know if i really said anything different than what's been stated before but you know we can still get something done um this year that addresses the need but i think it just needs to be better than last year so it's kind of the middle ground i'll hang up and listen okay thank you councilmember lund councilmember foxx as i mentioned in the last meeting it has been advised that i don't share my opinion about this matter um but i think you all um are well aware of my leanings um i just wanted to highlight a couple things council member brox you brought up a great point why don't we do a pilot [1:16:05] Councilmember Fox: program i think we kind of did last year and we saw what worked and what didn't and we are making the changes eric is working as tail off to make the changes that didn't work last year work for the future and i agree with council member lund and council member leifeld that this really could be a forward-thinking long-term planning visioning thing for the city of hastings the tourism side of that that we in the past have said is something that the city believes in and something that we will invest in um and perhaps this is something great just to honor council member vaughn's concerns to put on the docket particularly to our strategic planning meeting let's see if tourism and getting people [1:16:52] Councilmember Fox: to our downtown corridor is really something that we're passionate about and if if it is let's keep it in our vision and let's keep it in our conversation and if it's not let's readjust that so i just no opinions just my two cents and i also just want to highlight eric's incredible work through all of this he's really been so diligent and we're going to end up with a great plan whether it's a tiered system whether it's long term whether it's this year it's going to be phenomenal because eric is just pouring his heart into it so thank you eric thank you councilmember fox and councilmember folch any new discussion i'm thinking of your honor i just wanted to clarify and a couple comments that council member lund [1:17:38] Councilmember Folch: made um he i just to clarify i didn't say that we shouldn't think about it i said that we shouldn't sit on it for a long time and skip this year and and act like nothing's happening hoping on a prayer that things just magically go away when you pay attention to the science behind it we know that this is gonna stick around for quite some time so that's my point of the matter and secondly with the heart grants we did proceed without the cares act funding the federal government took a long time to get around to giving an appropriation hedra had made on the allocation uh for the um a larger sum i can't remember off the top my head but it was if it was like 350 000 [1:18:23] Councilmember Folch: or something like that and that then 180 000 of it ended up getting used through the through the heart grants and then we also had made um the forgiveness of the on-sale liquor licenses and and then we did end up later on applying cares act funding for that and so um so there is a precedence here of the city taking action without waiting for the federal government to to do its job so i just wanted to clarify on that and so um as we're moving forward so that for this next meeting it will um as i'm i'm hearing it it'll be then the third reading and then there'll be clarification on the matter of the the grade and whether or not a platform [1:19:08] Councilmember Folch: would be needed or not i'm just asking eric for just clarification on what would be coming forward because we're not taking action tonight right we're not taking a vote on anything this is just for discussion purposes correct correct thanks eric did you want to answer that uh yeah uh councilmember folks that's correct staff is not looking for any action this evening the outstanding item being the ada accessibility minnesota accessibility standards and how that relates to a platform on the road surface or a road surface i will connect with the city's building official and have a report ready for the march first city council meeting okay thank you eric any other discussion council if not we [1:19:54] Mayor Mary Fasbender: will move forward good discussion and really to eric and john thank you for all your work that you're doing staff has been amazing for the last we can say almost a year so appreciate it uh tonight we have a second or i'm sorry we have a resolution extension of temporary business measures related to covid 19. [1:20:16] John Hinzman: for this item we will have an introduction from community development director john hinsman uh thank you madam mayor and city council members on the subject of covert relief we did do an extension we did have temporary measures that we established last year uh by resolution on may 18th and those items expired on november 1st of last year what we're proposing to do tonight is to reenact most of them some of those uh were not utilized some of those have been modified i'll go through some of those changes here briefly one of the actions was the use of sidewalks for commerce we would still have that going forward we also had last year a discussion of using planters for table seating that ultimately was never utilized so [1:21:02] John Hinzman: that has been removed we will still use the bridge plaza provide facilities similar to last year increase the number of tables along the riverfront we'll continue to examine where tables are warranted so we can meet the need allow conversion of private parking lots into outdoor dining areas and this is i think a key point so much of the items that we have relate to some of the downtown businesses but this is an item that was utilized by restaurants outside of the downtown areas in which there was still a need for private parking lot conversions to meet seating needs for dining we would still allow that to happen this year with up to 25 percent of those spaces being utilized we would also take a more uh laxadaisial effort towards temporary signage [1:21:48] John Hinzman: understanding that during the pandemic signage for businesses is utmost important and then the expansion of sidewalk conveys to contiguous areas with the separation of the sidewalk we eliminated that we will we will establish those rules through uh the new parkland organs so that's what we have before you tonight and i can stand for any questions uh council member vaughn thank you john can you just clarify then on that last point there we were hung up on that last year well are we proposing that we don't have to be contiguous anymore between the business and whatever the place is councilmember what we're moving forward with with our sparklet ordinance would [1:22:35] Councilmember Vaughn: be an area that is not directly attached to the building itself that uh looking at what other cities have been utilizing over the last couple of years that have a a pathway in between there we believe that that is something that would be worth going forward with albeit there may be the the risk moving forward that someone could look at the contiguous aspect and find this in violation and that's my question what what changed are we just going to take more risk this year as a community with that option and if so is there was it more on police was it on public [1:23:20] Councilmember Vaughn: works was it on our city attorney that says last year it was a pretty big hang-up that's why we had to make it kind of inconvenient to walk through there i'm just curious what changed now all of a sudden that we think it's okay it's just a risk i just want to make sure that we are covered as on behalf of the city on the risk side so sure council member it's a very good question take a look at how the uh the state had enforced its rules on others that had had similar situations that we're proposing in which there was a physical separation of the sidewalk between the business and the parklet within the street finding that there were no uh that we could find in any actions [1:24:06] John Hinzman: taken against those type of entities we felt that when you took a look at the advantages of having the free sidewalk moving through which was a complaint we heard numerous times from from people utilizing the downtown and business owners that the circuitous nature of moving around the downtown with this uh contiguous area that this would be a that this in our opinion would be a risk worth doing [1:24:41] Councilmember Folch: thank you john uh councilmember folch thank your honor to address councilmember vaughn's question about the contiguous space i was worried about that as well and so i spoke to our senator carla bigum about the impact that that statute had on us particularly last year she had been you know she frequents our downtown all the time and so she was fully aware of how awful it looked um in the condition it was with the barricades and and all of that and so um she's actually introducing a bill um in the senate and then then the house shelley christensen who is the house rep out of stillwater who you know hastings in stillwater have [1:25:26] Councilmember Folch: been uh say we've been the progressive river town communities here in minnesota that have been forward thinking and so um so they together are going to be introducing a bill to change the statute so that this won't be a problem for us into the future so more to come on that thanks thank you councilmember fulch any additional discussion okay at this time then i would accept a motion to approve a resolution of the city council the city of hastings approving temporary measures for operation of commerce so move your honor council member rightfelt and council member baracks [1:26:12] Councilmember Brocks: with a second additional discussion council councilmember vaughn yep i just want to verify that are we leaving number seven in there my staff's opinion is they're willing to take the risk and the same with our attorney i mean that's we're signing off on a potential here that contiguous might might be without a barrier they can walk across it i just want to make sure that we're covering ourselves here and councilmember i can respond to that the resolution before you does not include any mention of the contiguous nature of parklets we would we would have that within the parkland ordinance itself okay thank you john [1:26:58] Clerk Henderson: any other discussion council okay uh clerk henderson please call the roll once a member bond yes council member fulch yes council member fox abstain council member leifeld yes council member lund yes councilmember brock's yes mayor fassbender yes and that prevails so tonight we uh have kind of a bittersweet night again and as you know tonight is attorney dan flegel's last evening with us the city has been benefiting from the [1:27:44] Mayor Mary Fasbender: guidance of legal law firm for well what we know is 58 years which is a very long time as you know as i look at the screen i'd mention that sedan would teach it today none of you on the screen were even born at that time isn't that amazing i mean if you really seriously look at that dan that is amazing and we are so grateful from you to shawn moynihan to [Music] don fleegle to sam hertoggs did i miss someone i can't remember i mean that's amazing so you're so appreciated so with that [1:28:30] Mayor Mary Fasbender: i hope you can see it but the city is giving you a beautiful photo of our city hall and it's etched in glass um to the legal law firm a recognition of 58 years of definitely faithfully representing the city of hastings 1963 to 2021. [1:28:59] Mayor Mary Fasbender: so that's amazing your your face is going to be missed again we'll see you around the town i'm i'm hoping and we will see your smiley face so we appreciate we appreciate all that you have done in your firm and we wish you the best and everything that you choose to do uh i think i have a few people that would like to speak council member vaughn thank you honor and dan thank you i appreciate the years of service and friendship that we had here i think you're reading those dates mayor it really shows i mean it's unique to have a community that has long time attorneys that live and be our neighbors dan just thank your colleagues thank your dad for being here for us this long [1:29:44] Councilmember Vaughn: and please give us your input don't charge us when you send me a bill but as a resident please stay in touch with us and i look forward to representing you still thank you michael thank you councilmember vaughn um we'll get that to you so you can properly hang it in your office well we'll definitely display it proudly in the office and uh you know i i can't say enough how much i i do appreciate the trust and support you've given to me and uh to our firm over the years you know to not only this council and the current staff but also to the past city councils and and staff that we've worked with over the years um we very much appreciate it it's it's great to be part of this team [1:30:29] Dan Flegel: and uh part of this great city you know i've grown up here it makes a big difference to me that the the city proceeds and you know through all these different times that we've experienced things have really changed i think i wasn't around in 1963 but i do know that there's been a lot of change i do know that you'll be in good hands with the the two new firms that were appointed tonight i think you're going to benefit from some of that depth of knowledge and experience with both the lavander firm and the campbell knutson firm and and the primary attorney so but i can't say enough how much i appreciate the the trust that you've given us and i'll miss uh miss this a lot and and i just thank all of you for the the the trust you put into me in in our firm and letting us serve this this great community so thank you very much [1:31:16] Mayor Mary Fasbender: thank you council do you have any announcements i do have a few uh saturday february 27th we have a introduction to ice fishing at lake rebecca bait tackle poles and holes are provided all attendees can fish without a fishing license during this event catch and release only under the dnr waiver this event is in partnership with carpenter nature center national park service and department of natural resources free of charge but a registration is [1:32:02] Mayor Mary Fasbender: required if you missed the state of the city presentation last week the video has been posted on the city website as well as hctv youtube channel next week the united way of hastings is hosting a series of five free webinars how can we help our children succeed through covet 19 and other mental health challenges to learn more and register please visit the united way of hastings website we can't forget we have a birthday this week councilmember lightfelt has a birthday on thursday i believe along with that there are some meetings [1:32:47] Mayor Mary Fasbender: coming up tuesday february 16th 6 p.m we have a finance committee wednesday february 17th we have a public safety advisory commission meeting at 6 30 monday february 22nd we have a planning commission meeting at 7 pm and monday march 1st we will be in session for council again at 7 00 pm with that i would stand for a motion to adjourn member brock's second trainer and councilmember leiffeld no additional discussion clerk henderson please call the roll [1:33:34] Clerk Henderson: council member vaughn yes council member [1:33:34] Clerk Henderson: folch yes council member fox yes council member life field yes council member lund yes councilmember brock's yes mayor fassbender yes and that motion prevails thank you everyone have a good week have a good week bye bye [1:34:12] Mayor Mary Fasbender: everyone