This transcript appears to be a meeting of the **Oakdale Planning Commission**. Based on the context provided and the roll call within the text, I have identified the speakers. Note: The "Chair" is **Commissioner Campbell**, as he is addressed as "Mr. Chair" by staff and leads the proceedings. **Jake Ingribrightsen** is the Council Member addressed at the end (phonetically transcribed as "Iner brickson"). *** **[00:00] Chair Campbell:** Good evening and welcome to the uh October 5th 2023 uh Planning Commission meeting. Uh first order of business is call to order and second is Pledge of Allegiance. **[00:00] All:** I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. **[00:00] Chair Campbell:** Luke, roll call please. **[00:00] Luke McClanahan:** Pearson? **[00:00] Commissioner Pearson:** Here. **[00:00] Luke McClanahan:** Willenbring? **[00:00] Commissioner Willenbring:** Here. **[00:00] Luke McClanahan:** Campbell? **[00:00] Chair Campbell:** Present. **[00:00] Luke McClanahan:** Solarski? **[00:00] Commissioner Solarski:** Here. **[00:00] Luke McClanahan:** Diara? **[00:00] Commissioner Diara:** Here. **[00:00] Luke McClanahan:** Moli is absent. And Hanan? **[00:00] Commissioner Hanan:** Here. **[00:00] Chair Campbell:** Okay, next is the approval of minutes. Does anyone have any changes or additions to make to the minutes? If not, I'll look for a motion to approve as presented. **[00:00] Commissioner Willenbring:** So moved. **[00:00] Commissioner Pearson:** Second. **[00:00] Chair Campbell:** Okay, all those in favor? **[00:00] All:** Aye. **[00:00] Chair Campbell:** All those opposed? Thank you much. Uh there is no new business tonight so the first order of business is a public hearing on the Twin Cities Transport and Recovery Inc, 2741 Geneva Avenue North, conditional use permit amendment, alternative fencing and screening materials. Luke, your report first. **[00:00] Luke McClanahan:** Yes, thank you. Luke McClanahan, City Planner. Yes, as you mentioned Mr. Chair, this property, Twin Cities Transport and Recovery, also known as Twin Cities Towing, located at 2741 Geneva Avenue. The purpose of this request is to hear an amendment to the applicant's original special use permit to allow alternative fencing screening materials. This property is zoned IO—that's Industrial Office—where automobile towing service is listed as a special use. When I say special use and conditional use, those are interchangeable; it's defined by the ordinance, it's the same thing. Background details on this request: Twin Cities Towing received approval for their use permit back on October 2nd, 1985, to operate their automobile towing service business. In that resolution of approval, which is included in the packet, the first condition of approval states that the property owner install an 8ft, 100% opaque, treated wooden fence along the southern boundary of the exterior storage area and also along the eastern boundary of the property... [detailed explanation of history and code enforcement]. Staff recommends denial of this amendment request; or in other words, staff is recommending that the original conditions of approval be upheld. I'd be happy to answer any questions. **[00:00] Chair Campbell:** Thank you. Anyone have any questions for Luke? **[00:00] Commissioner Willenbring:** Then I have a few. Yes. Um, you said that the vinyl panels, in staff's opinion, won't meet the original intent. What—why is that? **[00:00] Luke McClanahan:** Looking back at the original condition, it says "treated wood." In our opinion, you know, that vinyl is not treated wood and, you know, it's unknown if the effects of a vinyl fence can help mitigate noise as well as a wooden fence can. **[00:00] Commissioner Willenbring:** Like the original question that I had brought up on that was vinyl planking... not panels, but what you use for decks now, which is mostly composite materials? **[00:00] Luke McClanahan:** Again, in staff's opinion, we feel that that would not meet the original intent and instead it should be wooden panels. **[00:00] Commissioner Willenbring:** And then in the applicant's narrative, there's a comment here that they had a discussion with Ken Mavon about their proposed plan. Do we have any record of like any written record of any approvals that he gave them or anything like that? Or for all we know it was just verbal conversations? **[00:00] Luke McClanahan:** I do have documented emails from our code enforcement officer here and, like I mentioned, from the correspondence I have it was very clear that the original resolution he stated the conditions... I haven't seen any written correspondence [agreeing to the chain link]. **[00:00] Commissioner Willenbring:** I guess my question was it in the narrative on that it says on May 17th that Ken from code enforcement before the installation occurred... it states that he said that its solution would work. So it kind of appears to me that they agreed that yes, this would be because it's 10 feet instead of 8 feet. **[00:00] Luke McClanahan:** This is the applicant's narrative, though, not staff's narrative. **[00:00] Commissioner Willenbring:** You're right. I'm sorry. That was why I was asking the question... if the applicant has that written documentation, then I think that would be important for us to see. **[00:00] Commissioner Solarski:** Does the noise from the business currently violate our city noise ordinances? **[00:00] Luke McClanahan:** What I can say is that we've received complaints about the general noise... yes, the city has received noise complaints. We do have a noise ordinance; that's another avenue that we can look at. **[00:00] Commissioner Diara:** I have a couple of questions. So, my first question would be: what is the intent of the ordinance? Is it noise or is it visual sort of aesthetic? From what I'm hearing you say is that you have not done a noise evaluation to see if it meets the city noise ordinance... if you have not, how do you get to that determination to recommend denial of the application? **[00:00] Luke McClanahan:** So yes, to your question about the noise evaluation, this was approved almost 40 years ago... we don't have any supporting data at this time for that. **[00:00] Commissioner Diara:** As a followup, when an application such as this one get submitted, does city work with all other departments... so that when you put your stuff together it's all sort of a recommendation solid, meaning that is in violation of everybody else's ordinance? **[00:00] Luke McClanahan:** Fair point. **[00:00] Commissioner Pearson:** And since the original CUP was done in 1985, I'm assuming materials have come a long way since then. Is there not another option besides fully treated wood put up that would accomplish the same thing? **[00:00] Luke McClanahan:** I think to the Chair's point, exploring other options... our stance is upholding that original condition of approval. We're looking for wood, treated wood fence. **[00:00] Chair Campbell:** And looking at the original resolution, the guiding statement really appears to be "100% opaque." The wood is a mention of materials, but 100% opaque is what I think is important. And I just looking at it, it looks like it's equivalent to about a 20% opaque visually... it doesn't seem to be met to me. **[00:00] Commissioner Willenbring:** Would it be prudent for us to open the public hearing before we have some dialogue amongst ourselves? **[00:00] Chair Campbell:** At this point I now open the public hearing. The applicant is here; we'll hear from them first. One at a time, please. **[00:00] Renee Geis:** Good evening, my name is Renee Geis. I am an owner of Twin Cities Transport and Recovery. I am the one that I had conversations with Mr. Mavon about this. A little bit of background... he reached out and said that the fence was in disrepair... we found with the problem with the fence is the fence was too heavy and the ground is very soft there. When the wind comes through, the wind just grabs it like a sail and pulls it over... I checked with him and it's like "okay, if we're going to replace the fence, can we go to a 10-ft fence thinking that it would add extra screening for the neighbors?" He sent me back an email saying that he checked the statute and he said yes, we could go up to a 10-ft fence... we spent $30,000 to have that fence put up. Then after it was all done, he came back and said "oh, I checked and it doesn't meet your original CUP." I was a little upset. **[00:00] Commissioner Willenbring:** Have you gone back to the fence company and asked them what they're going to do to rectify this for you, since it's not opaque and if they told you it would be? **[00:00] Renee Geis:** I have not gone back to the fence company as far as seeing if there's other options... I was led to believe that these are privacy slats and that you wouldn't be able to see through it. **[00:00] Chair Campbell:** Thank you very much. If there's any other member of your organization would like to speak, we'll let them speak next. **[00:00] John Grindeland:** Hello, John Grindeland, Director of Operations here at Twin Cities. Main thing I'd like to point out just on the towing company side... we want to be a part of communities everywhere we are. It is important for us; we want to be here a long time, we want to work with cities. **[00:00] Chair Campbell:** Thank you much. At that point, I guess I would open up to anybody else in the audience who wishes to make comments. **[00:00] Debbie Ramsey:** My name is Debbie Ramsey, I live at 6010 27th Street. I'm directly across the track from Twin Cities Towing. I'm here to strongly oppose this conditional use amendment. It isn't just the visual... that company does create a lot of noise. Every hour those tow trucks come into that lot and they have that backup beeper going the whole way. It wakes me up more times than I could even count. A solid wooden fence would absolutely prevent some of that noise. **[00:00] Dan Angle:** Dan Angle, 6026 27th Street. My yard faces right into their towing yard. I've been there 48 years. The wooden fence like this here is a lot better than watching people climb the cyclone fence and go in there and steal cars... and then the noise in that, them trucks, you know what I mean? Beep, beep, beep, beep. All hours of the night. It's getting a disgrace to my neighborhood and my value of my house I believe. **[00:00] Darren Jones:** My name is Darren Jones, I live at 6031 27th Street North. One of my concerns is the noise... I live on a hill and it seems in the winter time, 4:30 the other morning you could hear them beep beep beep and the chains. Personally, I'd like to see a fence where you couldn't see in. **[00:00] Chair Campbell:** Anyone else wish to come forward to make comment? [Pause] Seeing none, I close the public hearing and bring it back to the commission. **[00:00] Commissioner Willenbring:** You know, as I read through the initial special use permit, it seems pretty clear to me that the concern was around visibility. There's nothing in here that says anything about noise. That being said, because we're here to amend a conditional use permit, it effectively opens up the door for us to now bring noise into the conversation. For me, I don't know that I'm hung up on it having to be wood, but I do think something needs to be done to get back to that 100% opaqueness. **[00:00] Chair Campbell:** Given the fact that noise would probably have to be addressed more from the Council or from Staff first, the other issue that's been brought up that the wooden fence resolved that the slats don't is visual light pollution. We do have ordinances for that. **[00:00] Commissioner Pearson:** Would you rather just table it and have staff review it one more time with the applicant? **[00:00] Commissioner Diara:** For me it all goes back to the intent. When the first condition to put up the approval is about obscuring, nothing about noise... I don't think it is in the documentation. **[00:00] Commissioner Solarski:** I mean, I heard what they were saying how somebody came and inspected it and said it was okay. I mean, I feel like that isn't right... where's the responsibility for that? **[00:00] Chair Campbell:** Well, yeah. The thing is, if it's in evidence... the options we have available to us are yea and nay on the change request or tabling. **[00:00] Luke McClanahan:** If you're asking for my opinion... you are a recommending body. The final action is going to be made by the City Council. Time has already been extended to December of this year for the City Council to act on it. **[00:00] Commissioner Willenbring:** I will make a motion to recommend denial of the CUP amendment for alternative fencing and screening materials for Twin Cities Towing at 2741 Geneva Avenue North. **[00:00] Chair Campbell:** Second? **[00:00] Commissioner Solarski:** Second. **[00:00] Chair Campbell:** All those in favor? **[00:00] Commissioner Pearson:** Aye. **[00:00] Commissioner Willenbring:** Aye. **[00:00] Chair Campbell:** Aye. **[00:00] Commissioner Solarski:** Aye. **[00:00] Commissioner Hanan:** Aye. **[00:00] Chair Campbell:** All those opposed? **[00:00] Commissioner Diara:** No. **[00:00] Chair Campbell:** Motion to deny is passed. Moving on to other business. Luke? **[00:00] Luke McClanahan:** Yes, so the next City Council meeting I believe is November 2nd... we also plan to bring you the draft Shoreland overlay zoning ordinance. That's all I have. **[00:00] Chair Campbell:** Council Member Inerbrickson? [Addressing Jake Ingribrightsen] **[00:00] Council Member Jake Ingribrightsen:** I have nothing major to report but I'll take any questions. **[00:00] Commissioner Willenbring:** When—I just sorry, I just want to clarify something... I'm not sure they [the public] know what the motion is. Is it denied? **[00:00] Chair Campbell:** The motion is to deny the request for a change in the materials... the application for alternative fencing and screening materials as stated now. [To Jake] Timing on Public Works, the new facility? **[00:00] Council Member Jake Ingribrightsen:** That's a good question. They're still working to get the site fully clean... the timetable on that is a little bit iffy. Construction could begin next April. **[00:00] Chair Campbell:** Good enough for me. We are at adjournment. **[00:00] Commissioner Willenbring:** Motion to adjourn. **[00:00] Chair Campbell:** We stand adjourned. Thank you very much.