This transcript appears to be a meeting of the **Hermantown Park Board** from February 17, 2021. Based on the context provided and the dialogue within the recording, here is the identified transcription. **Note on Speakers:** * **Mike Miller:** Park Board Chairman (facilitator). * **Eric Johnson:** Community Development Director. * **Natalie Peterson:** Park Board Member (and City Council Liaison). * **Dwight Morrison:** Park Board Member. * **Jim Sonneson:** Park Board Member (referred to as "Jim"). * **Gene Shaw:** Park Board Member. * **Jesse:** Park Board Member. * **Kelly Taske:** Park Board Member. * **Crystal Holden:** Guest (Hermantown Softball). * **Nancy:** Guest speaker/Subcommittee representative for the RCI. *** [0:00] **Joe Wicklund:** Recording, so um, I guess whenever you want to go we can turn it over to you. [0:05] **Mike Miller:** Okay, so we're calling the City of Hermantown Park Board to order for the February 17th meeting. Start off with a roll call. Mike Miller, myself, I'm here. Gene? I see Gene Shaw is there, but I don't hear him. Gene, are you muted? See if I can unmute them here. [0:43] **Joe Wicklund:** I just sent him a message, we'll see if that uh, pops through or not. [0:48] **Mike Miller:** Okay. Uh, Jim? [0:50] **Jim Sonneson:** Here. [0:51] **Mike Miller:** Uh, Natalie Peterson? [0:53] **Natalie Peterson:** Hi. [0:54] **Mike Miller:** Hi. Mike here? Okay, yeah I thought you were... um, Kelly Taske? Dwight Morrison? Jenna Warren-Moose? I don't see Jenna yet. Okay. And Jesse? [1:20] **Jesse:** Here. [1:21] **Mike Miller:** Okay thanks. Gene's here now? You're here, Gene? [1:24] **Gene Shaw:** I'm here. [1:26] **Mike Miller:** Okay, and Kelly's here now. [1:31] **Mike Miller:** Okay, so we start off with... uh, we need to have a motion to approve the minutes of the last meeting. [1:45] **Gene Shaw:** Approved last month's meeting. [1:47] **Mike Miller:** Okay, is there a second? [1:48] **Jim Sonneson:** Second. [1:49] **Mike Miller:** Okay, and all in favor? **Board Members:** Aye. Aye. Aye. [1:55] **Mike Miller:** Anybody concerned? Do you want to discuss further? Nope? Okay, the minutes are approved. Any public discussion? You don't see anybody here? [2:17] **Joe Wicklund:** No, I don't believe so, Mike. [2:19] **Mike Miller:** Okay, then we'll go into continuing business. The first would be update on Community Recreation Initiative. Yeah, hi, maybe I could turn that over to you for a few moments if you want to get a brief update. [2:36] **Eric Johnson:** Sure, Eric. Thank you and good evening everyone. Well, we've had um, some activity as far as... we had a whole group meeting yesterday and then we did that in the pre-agenda meeting for the City Council also yesterday and giving a brief update. Each subgroup gave an update on their particular um, part of it. Not a lot of activity except for just trying to keep those going. The trails, for instance, we've talked about—you know we know we need about seven or eight million dollars to continue on and we're looking at different grants. The Fichtner Park is trying to get organized with what they find for their priorities and how the park should be used or could be used. So those are some things that they're exploring. And then the hockey piece has been pretty organized because it had a formal process before. So then the survey was launched and the survey is due—the deadline is March 1st. So we encourage everyone to get... if you haven't taken the survey yourselves, to make sure you take it and then also get it on to anyone and everyone you know to make sure we get as much feedback as we can get. The Hermantown Star is going to put an ad tomorrow, um, getting it out there to all the residents hopefully to talk about maximizing the participation for that. Right now, as of yesterday, we had 622 responses to that survey, so everyone's anxiously awaiting to see what the results are. The legislature's moving forward as far as we know. We're hoping to hear something for sure—i think the deadline is May 17th at the very latest—but hopefully we'll know beforehand. There's been some backlog there and John Mulder talked about that. We talked about the website microsite that's been launched in regards to this recreational initiative on the Hermantown city website, and that will be moved more to the forefront. It's kind of buried now, but when we get to survey results, when we really get organized, we will be trying to drive everyone there to gather information. The economic, you know, impact that these initiatives would have on the area is immense. So we want to make sure that we get everyone the knowledge they need to come behind and and jump in. And so then we also need—um, as Natalie Peterson was talking about yesterday too—we need some branding in regards to this recreational initiative and it's got to be a joint effort between the three subcommittees. So we're working on that along with materials that are being prepared for the Duluth St. Louis County Days, and some of those materials will be readily available as we kind of kick off the campaign, so to speak. So that is really what the update is. Does anyone have any questions or comments? [5:37] **Natalie Peterson:** Um, Nancy—I apologize, I might—I don't know, I lost connection for a minute so I had to reconnect, but um, as far as the legislative efforts go, um, we will probably be coming to Park Board at some point for a probably a letter of support for um, the legislative request with the sales tax use. So more to come on that. We kind of have to... that has to get fine-tuned a little bit um, as far as what the exact process is, but um, at some point the Park Board will... we want Park Board to have a voice in that. So just fyi on that one. [6:24] **Nancy:** Yep, I think the Park Board and probably the subcommittees could also do something too. [6:30] **Natalie Peterson:** Yeah, yeah absolutely. And i think just a reminder to everybody, if you're not speaking, maybe just to make sure you've got your phone uh, or computer on mute too. [6:39] **Nancy:** It's off mute now. Okay. Does anyone have anything they want to add or any questions? All right, if not, um, thank you. Thank you for your time and i look forward to pursuing this further and getting those survey results so we can really hit it hard and and craft a campaign to go after sales tax and in this campaign. Thank you for your support. [7:06] **Mike Miller:** Thanks, Nancy. [7:07] **Nancy:** Absolutely. Yeah, bye. [7:09] **Mike Miller:** Thank you. Natalie, appreciate it. And uh, actually Mike, before we take it here again, um, we did have a new uh, person come in. Looks like "Fern151." Uh, maybe just for the um, documentation for tonight, if uh, just want to identify yourself, that'd be great. [7:34] **Crystal Holden:** Hello, it's Crystal Holden, Hermantown Softball. [7:37] **Eric Johnson:** Perfect, thank you. [7:38] **Mike Miller:** I love your picture. [7:40] **Crystal Holden:** Oh, thank you. On my snowboard there. [7:43] **Mike Miller:** I was thinking that's getting pretty serious about coming on. [7:47] **Crystal Holden:** Oh yeah, you can never be too careful, right? [7:49] **Mike Miller:** Yeah, okay. Then coming up would be uh, continuing business on the second topic: Update on Morris Thomas Road to Keene Creek Trail. [7:58] **Eric Johnson:** Yeah, thank you Mike, appreciate it. Um, met and spoke with the city engineer earlier today. They're in the process of wrapping up the plans for this trail segment. This—to remind everybody—this is from Keene Creek Park going up to Morris Thomas Road. Uh, their thoughts are that they're going to have this plan set complete sometime next week for some staff review, and then get that in front of City Council here as well for um, the final approval of those plans and then have the ability to put that out for bid. Uh, the thoughts or the hopes are to um, to award this contract sometime in April. So as soon as we get that spring thaw, we can get this segment going and moving along with the ultimate goal of this section being complete by June 30th. So that's um, that's exciting news and um, i think that'll lead in a little bit more to our discussion under new business here as well with uh, Keene Creek Park. [9:17] **Dwight Morrison:** Eric, do me a favor and refresh me on uh, the estimated cost of that and how it's being funded, just so I get it back in my head. [9:30] **Eric Johnson:** Sure, exactly. This is a... funded by two different sources. One is the uh, remaining uh, part—you see me, not park dedication—but the grant that we received from the Greater Minnesota Regional Parks and Trails Commission. We have plus or minus, I want to say, 120 to 140,000 left as part of that grant. The rest of this is coming from park dedication. That's approximately going to be about 170 plus or minus is what we're going to need from that. We do have that monies either currently in the coffers or coming in any moment through uh, work that's being done on those uh, P&R apartments. So um, we are in a good shape at least from a park dedication standpoint as well that way. [10:22] **Dwight Morrison:** Okay, thanks Eric. [10:24] **Mike Miller:** And uh, are we gonna... you're talking about the plan going to the City Council. Is the plan going to come to the Park Board just so we see it, or will there be time for that? [10:35] **Eric Johnson:** I'll have to look at the timing to see if well... we can make that work. Worst case scenario that at least I will uh, solicit, get that out to all of you by way of an email and suggest any comments that way as well if it doesn't work from a regular meeting timeline. [10:52] **Mike Miller:** Okay, appreciate it. Anybody else on that topic? Okay, then move on to 4C: Update on Transportation Alternative Grant submission. [11:04] **Eric Johnson:** Well, unfortunately, this isn't just fun information to give. We were number four of 12 submissions that had been received by that group. They... they funded the top three applications. There was almost five million dollars worth of submissions made of these 12 different applications and like I said, we are number four. Uh, we did get very positive comments from the group, which um, at least makes me feel good about submitting again next year. That they recognize that this is a portion or part of the city that's really underserved from a sidewalk standpoint with the ability to uh, connect these trail segments—the ones that were gonna be under construction you know right now in the in the spring with this um, Keene Creek Park as well as a portion that we're wrapping up right now south of Ingwalls. So uh, I will plan on still submitting this for next year again. Uh, at that point, like I said, these two trail segments would be complete at that time, so we would truly have this missing portion and uh, hopefully that will put us over the edge for uh, the funding this next cycle. [12:28] **Mike Miller:** That's the... this is the second time we've come close, right Eric? [12:31] **Eric Johnson:** It is. The um, the first time we came close was on the section between the uh, schools and the Essentia Wellness Center to uh, the city center, the government center. And then when I applied the next year, I got the total different results from them—that uh, they were not in favor of it; they thought that that area was well-served from a sidewalk standpoint. So um, a lot of the things that they essentially worked against us on that second submission, I... I don't see that happening on this particular trail section. But every year is a new year, but I'll continue to go after that. [13:14] **Mike Miller:** Okay, thanks. [13:16] **Eric Johnson:** The fact um, the fact that they only had 900,000 dollars this year and each group was awarded 300—uh, I would definitely take a chunk out of what we'd have to build for this trail segment. This trail segment would be almost a million dollars. So on the flip side, every little bit helps, but there could conceivably be a gap if we do get that grant in the future. But I am continuing to um, look at this. Some DNR connector grants that are coming up here in March and April and going to be looking at those as well. Those are smaller grants, but once again, it's you know, up in the tune of maybe 100 or 150,000, so it would definitely help. Um, the city is still working with the developer who owns the property at the south end of this trail segment now. We're having discussions with them about obtaining an easement for this trail segment for the future, so that would definitely be helpful in the grant application again—that we'd have at a minimum two-thirds of this uh, trail section identified or secured through easements. So the city's going to continue to work with that developer on that as well as look at options of potentially for having them take down or potentially build a portion of this trail as well, at least on their property. So that's uh, still ongoing. [14:41] **Dwight Morrison:** I'm going... I wanted to jump back real quick to the Morris Thomas to Keene Creek. In the plan as you've seen it so far, is it look like the crossing is going to be on the other side of the creek from the intersection of uh... I forget that how to pronounce it... Okerstrom, whatever the road is coming for Keene Creek? [15:02] **Eric Johnson:** Yeah, Okerstrom. Yep, we've looked at that quite a bit. I know that that... Dwight, you've expressed your concern about the ability to cross at an intersection. We have spoken to St. Louis County as well as to um, what we're incurring. We have had quite a bit of conversations about the DNR as well as other environmental groups, and they're really stressing to us not to have to cross over that creek. So what that does is that puts the... the trail just to the east of the creek, which puts it for lack of better words, a mid-block crossing. We have had that discussion with St. Louis County. Um, they said that even the fact that at Okerstrom and Morris Thomas is... it's uncontrolled from one intersection, that Morris Thomas has the right-of-way, there's no stop at that point. They said as long as they're utilizing signage, there's very good sight lines whether it is a mid-block crossing or at that intersection. So at least from St. Louis County and their... in their traffic standpoint, they're comfortable if we do have to go that mid-block crossing route, that that's acceptable to them. I know that's not what you were you know, looking at Dwight, but that's what we've been running into from an environmental standpoint. [16:28] **Dwight Morrison:** Hey, thanks for the efforts anyway. I think it's something we should try to get near, but hey, as long as it's uncontrolled, probably doesn't have that much of a critical function then. So appreciate it, thanks Eric. [16:41] **Mike Miller:** Anything else from anybody before we go on to new business? Okay, moving on to new business then. The first was discussion on Keene Creek Park. [17:00] **Eric Johnson:** Yes, uh, this was a tie-over a bit from uh, our last meeting. Dwight, you had indicated the one—at least start a discussion on Keene Creek Park and uh, maybe some ideas as to uh, what this could be in the future, particularly now that we're having this trail section coming through there to help everyone out. Uh, right now Keene Creek is our um, most "natural" for lack of better words of the parks that we have. We do have an existing baseball/softball field that has not been used in some time that um, it still exists but for the most part it needs quite a bit of work down there. We've got a large grass turf area that's generally just general recreation and this has become—for lack of better words—the de facto dog park in Hermantown, at least in the fact that people have a lot of dog walking and off-lead uh, use of the of the trails with their dogs for better or worse. I mean we've been hearing some conversations that people are concerned about dogs being off-leash and potential safety issues that way. So um, as part of the... the trail plan, we are providing a uh, basically a concrete pad area that we're going to be able to bring some picnic tables in, a bike rack as well as trash receptacle, kind of similar to what we did over at Stebner Park. And then one thing I'd like to see—and obviously with the input of the group—is the potential for a um, a playground area down there as well. Right now this is one of our parks that does not have a playground, and that's something that we try to strive for. So um, I think at that point I'd like to open it up a bit more to the group if they have any other thoughts on Keene Creek Park as it exists today and what they envision this maybe could be in the future. [19:01] **Jim Sonneson:** I agree with you. I think uh, I've seen people down there, especially during COVID with the uh... they'd go out and order out, take takeout and then go down there and have their meals down there at the one existing picnic table. And but if there was more picnic tables I think would be fine too. But another thing is, I think we have to get the backstop fixed on that field and then maybe weed control on the field so it's been able to be able to use more often or better, so it's easier or better to use. Because I've talked to people before and you can disc that and disc that, but you kill it... you kill the weeds on top but you don't kill the roots and they just... they just keep on coming up. I think we should think about uh, spraying the infield to kill the weeds. [19:48] **Natalie Peterson:** Yeah, i'm sorry—Natalie, I'm sorry. I was just... I know we've had like informal discussions with baseball/softball about the... their committed use to that field. Um, can you just remind us of those conversations and their intention of using that space if it were you know, up to code, basically? [20:13] **Eric Johnson:** Yeah, thank you. The... in the past—notice in the past—this was about three years ago, um, the Softball Association, that was a field that was identified for their use under the user agreements. Uh, back in I'm saying '16 and a little bit in '17, they had some sporadic use of that field, not a lot. Used a little bit more as a practice facility at that point. When uh, Rose Road field was uh, being constructed and starting to come online, um, at least softball was of the opinion that since they were gonna have three fields up at Rose Road, they did not need the field down at Keene Creek any further. At that point, the Baseball Association uh, asked that the Keene Creek field be added to their user agreement as a field for their use. And to my understanding, i... I don't believe they've really even used it these last few years. Um, now with the girls high school softball utilizing Rose Road primarily for their field that they have, it appears that field number two is now... has a chance to be used more for the Hermantown Youth Baseball Association, which I think even further takes any pressure off of the need to use Keene Creek Park at least at this point. At least from staff, we will still engage both softball and baseball to find out if they believe they can utilize Keene Creek Park at least as—lack of better words—as a practice facility. But um, we've not... not really seen much use on that field at least in the five years that I've been here. [22:15] **Natalie Peterson:** And Eric, i think part of that is just the condition of the you know, the field itself. Um, but I think you know, we have to look at if we make an investment into updating it, do we have kind of a commitment from them to use that? I just want to make sure that we're thoughtful about that. Um, the only other couple things that we've talked about and we've been approached about is an actual dog park contained space on kind of that open field area, which would hopefully maybe alleviate some of the free-running dogs on the actual trails where some folks are either with or without their leashed dogs. So i think that that's worthy of a discussion. I know we've also talked about kind of making that park a little bit of a destination park based on a particular activity, whether that is an actual formal dog park... i know we've talked about the disc golf, you know some of those types of things because we definitely have that open field space surrounded by those trails. So I guess I'd like to see us explore you know, kind of those bigger conversations as well. [23:31] **Eric Johnson:** In the... um, in that comment about the dog park is a great comment. I was... been thinking about that as well and um, even the way it exists today you know, that could be converted quite easily to a fenced dog park. I think there's really just a couple areas that we'd have to fill in the fence with, as well as create um, basically a controlled entry and exit point for that. So um, obviously we want to have the conversations first with the user groups if they foresee that the use of that field, and if not so, then maybe we pivot over towards a dog park as a... something that we could accomplish pretty easily and not a lot of use of funds. And then likewise disc golf is... is probably one of the cheaper things that we could do as a community, not having to do a lot of investment because a lot of the space is already there. We've got some of the number of trails that can be utilized as well as that open turf area. So um, there's some really good potential for those two type of uses. [24:37] **Crystal Holden:** I can kind of um, I'm in on softball here, Crystal, hi. Um, so we... I know there have been teams that use that for practice space. Um, and I know baseball... i don't know you know, we had talked about that quite a bit on um, you know what our usage amount will be moving forward because of baseball also getting to use it. Um, so I can bring that up at the next board meeting. I'm on the Youth Softball board so I can... I can find out um, you know where people are at with that and I guess we didn't know... uh, it sounded to us like baseball was gonna have access to that too. So yeah, I guess everyone maybe getting on the same page is probably a really good idea as far as that. And you're right as far as one reason it doesn't get utilized is that field is... it's in pretty bad shape. Um, so that's kind of a factor too. So I mean we do have a pitching machine and stuff in there and we've had practices there in the um, in the past. But um, that's I guess where we're at with it. [25:59] **Natalie Peterson:** And Eric, i think too, even on top of whatever is decided with the baseball/softball field, we do have that big open field space adjacent to that. Um, and I think you know, we have opportunities for some of the activities that we've discussed, you know of using that big open field space there which would be fun to make... i... I just would love to create a destination activity that brings people there not only just for the trails but other things. I know the disc—and not that I'm leaning on the disc golf—but I know up at Enger they have the disc golf um, happening and I know it's pretty popular, pretty active. So I think just thinking of things like that. We definitely have some space to play with and it's just a matter of what makes the most sense. So. [27:03] **Dwight Morrison:** Thanks... thanks for the discussion. Can I throw in a couple of comments? [27:07] **Mike Miller:** Sure. [27:08] **Dwight Morrison:** Uh, what motivated me, by the way, was you've got a trail now that's going to be in another year leading down there and I don't want it to be a trail to "nowhere." What bothered me, I guess a lot, was the lack of a trailhead type facility—in other words, bathrooms and things like that. And and I thought much about it, and what I came out with from... I don't know whether you've seen uh, over in Cloquet in the winter facilities there, they've got a covered area that covers two porta-potties and a vending machine. I thought it was kind of a neat solution to a trailhead without involving a lot of running water and things like that in the wintertime. But anyway, just getting the ideas going and the thought process going of what we can do with it is really good. I like it. Uh, I'm a little biased because uh, about 20 years ago—probably longer than that—i was involved with the development of the trails there and so with UMD had... had some really interesting times. It's a beautiful area. Uh, the dog parks, the idea sounds really neat, but uh, the whole area needs work. And just some thoughts about it... uh, maybe a question: We're talking about rebuilding that park fund in about a year, year and a half, and so maybe that's where some of this can come from too. Is that possible, Eric? [29:08] **Eric Johnson:** It is possible. And um, and I'm going to be kind of curious... I don't want to curse myself here lately, these some projects we've been getting, we've been getting some really good bids on. So hopefully that will continue as this trail system goes out for process here as well. And um, and we'll see it's you know, some numbers coming in um... maybe like I said, you know monies at least are being earmarked or budgeted for that. Perhaps there could be um, looking at something like a covered structure or something like that, you know. We'll just have to see how you know, a) this project is bid out at and to see if any monies are you know, at least available from that. And then obviously moving forward too, you know there's... there's two or three projects that uh, that are in the pipeline that could be very good generators for park dedication dollars. So um, I see some some good things on the horizon that way. [30:04] **Jim Sonneson:** I have a question about... uh, wasn't it about four or five months ago that we—Natalie or Eric—discussed the city was going to start putting in a hundred thousand dollars a year into the park [dedication] fund? Whatever became of that? [30:19] **Eric Johnson:** Yes, that is true Jim. As part of our uh, financial management plan, I believe that starting in 2022 is uh, when we're going to be doing that. Uh, I will verify that number uh, when I speak to Kevin Orme, our finance director, here again. And just at the next meeting, I will provide additional information for that. [30:42] **Jim Sonneson:** Well, I didn't realize it was that far out that that was going to start to happen. [30:47] **Eric Johnson:** Yeah, i'll get verification for that Jim, on the exact date and the exact number as well. But I mean those... those are numbers that uh, that have been discussed in the past here. [30:59] **Natalie Peterson:** Eric, was that estimation of what we are going to be getting from our normal process of park dedication funds, or was this going to be an extra hundred thousand dollars that the city was going to throw in from its regular funds? [31:13] **Eric Johnson:** It was my understanding that this was going to be additional funds on top of park dedication fees. [31:19] **Natalie Peterson:** Okay. [31:20] **Eric Johnson:** But I will verify that as well. [31:22] **Mike Miller:** Thanks. Anything else on Keene Creek? [31:25] **Dwight Morrison:** My motivation was to get the city to maybe start to look at what are these alternatives and and you know, start to flesh it out a little bit. That's for sure. Uh, it looks like it's a year or two years in advance but uh, hey it's a beautiful area, has some real potential. Thanks. [31:41] **Mike Miller:** Yep, sounds good. [31:42] **Natalie Peterson:** Mike? Yes, good. Natalie. I... i'm sorry, I don't know if you were going to speak, but I know Jesse's on the phone, I think Kelly's on the phone... i'm trying to remember what other members—if I'm missing anybody—Gene... but just if anybody else that hasn't spoken yet has um, ideas and or just thoughts. I think you know, there's... there's no bad idea right now. So i mean based on what you think would work with things you've seen, I think you know, let's really start brainstorming and then to Dwight's point we can really start putting maybe some numbers to some of these ideas and understanding what our cost is, um, if our space allows you know, these types of ideas, um, you know what what it's going to entail for us to fix up that backstop and some of those pieces for the the other youth. So i just I'd be curious as what other people think for ideas. [33:03] **Kelly Taske:** All right, I had a couple thoughts. Um, i... if I could just have anything that I wanted, I think it would be great to have a large playground. I think a lot of the playgrounds that the city has—besides at the school—are kind of small. It's a little bit of just like a, "well I'll throw you a bone, here's a playground." So having something bigger that would appeal to kids of all ages would be really cool. Um, I don't have a dog right now, but I think a dog park would be nice to get the dogs sort of maybe off the trails—not entirely—but to reduce the amount of dogs that are on the trails and the mess that they make. And I think it'd be really cool to have um, a disc golf course. I know it's super popular... I used to play a long time ago but it's been a long time, but I think that would be a fun thing to add back there too because there's a lot of different type of [terrain] and um, I think... i think it could work. Awesome. [34:02] **Natalie Peterson:** Thanks Kelly. Jesse, I'm gonna put you on the spot. Can you hear me? [34:10] **Jesse:** Yes. All right. I... i guess i you know, I like all the ideas. Um, i guess the only thing that that scares me about you know, all the ideas—and i guess the reason I'm just you know... I want a dog park, i... i like to disc golf, I like all that—is this park is kind of out of sight, out of mind, uh, off the main road. You know you go by Fichtner Park, um, you know it's in the middle of the city, there's cars driving by every day, um, it's busy. Where this Keene Creek is kind of tucked back in the woods and what scares me is you're going to entice things to get back there. So my biggest concern, my biggest question is who's going to really monitor all this stuff? If we go ahead and do a disc golf, we go ahead and do a dog park, because right now everybody talks about how there's no significant you know, dog park area. So where do these dogs all "create their business"? Uh, it's back there and nobody's back there. So that's my biggest concern is i... I like the disc golf, I think like Kelly said, I like the playground. I don't think there is a playground, especially you know, especially on that side of the town or the city. Um, and I I guess I'm just looking at the big picture and I want to throw it out there to everybody: You know, are we going to start having cameras placed back there and everything? Because it is tucked back in the woods and that's just my biggest concern. I'll leave it at that. [35:46] **Crystal Holden:** Well, that's a good point Jesse, because um, this is Crystal again, hi. Um, we did have a pitching machine stolen out of that building that... it was a couple years ago, I think it was two, maybe three seasons ago. So um, you know just there's that too. [36:04] **Natalie Peterson:** And i think Jesse, to your point, um, I think the park has definitely gained more traction as word's spreading about the trails that are back there, especially through this last year with people trying to find outdoor space. But we also have to remember with our trail that way, that's definitely going to change a lot of the course of the activity and the connectability to that space as well. But your point is taken that... and that's that is kind of a point that we've made that you know, more activity back there is better than no activity, because when you've got no activity it draws you know, "bad activity" basically coming in. So having um, you know folks down there using the park, whether it's for trails or baseball practice, softball practice, disc golf, whatever ends up being there along with the trail heading that way um, is... is a great thing to have more people out and about. But that... we certainly need to have a discussion—and we've even talked about this in the past—about the back side of Stebner Park which isn't as visible right from the road, of just being mindful from a safety/security standpoint. So what does that look like? [37:16] **Jesse:** Great. And that's just my biggest... that's my biggest thing. I'm glad you guys have... have looked at that and I looked... because I agree with you, I think the more activities you get back there the more traffic you're going to have, uh, you know, and and the better the situation the outcome could be. So I appreciate it, thanks. [37:37] **Mike Miller:** I agree. Yes, just... just to comment on the idea of a larger recreation or a playground area back there: There was some discussion the other day with the uh, Victor Park um, group about the idea of a "destination" recreation or playground area, and they had some uh, examples of larger areas. But we agreed—Eric talked about it—that there's probably not enough room at Fichtner for a really nice destination recreation-type park. So... i had suggested at the time that if we were going to think about something like that, we might think about a Stebner as a possibility because there is room... a possibility of room at Stebner, and the other would be here. So I I like, Kelly, the idea of the possibility that would be the spot to put it because we still have room out there to put something like that. And there are some neat designs that were shared by Kent in the recreation initiative group, just to share that aspect. [38:40] **Natalie Peterson:** Yeah, that's a good point Mike. How about Gene? Gene, do you have any thoughts or feedback? [38:52] **Mike Miller:** He might be muted. He's got the mute signs there. [38:56] **Natalie Peterson:** Yeah, i just like... Gene, if you're... if you're listening and able to unmute yourself and want to share something, I just want to make sure we're hearing from everybody. [39:06] **Mike Miller:** But no, he's ignoring us. [39:09] **Natalie Peterson:** So go ahead. Well i guess... i guess my question is too like um, Eric, you're clearly grabbing you know, some notes, but I think you know, starting to put some parameters um, some more detail around some of these ideas. Having a discussion with the baseball/softball group, understanding their commitment and need for the use of that field um, because that you know, is that staying? Is it going? What you know... i think just understanding that, but understanding we have a lot of space surrounding that as well. Um, i know the dog park is the group... we've been a pro—I've been approached um, on the City Council side multiple times about a dog park. And we do have an issue with you know, "free" dogs running, and that... definitely having a contained space I think would be a solution for that to a point. Um, but not that that's what we have to be going with, but I think we have some great options that wouldn't be very costly to be able to start putting some pieces together on that and understanding what could work, what would work, and what would that cost look like. [40:23] **Gene Shaw:** I see that you're able to unmute, I think so. Did you want to add something to the kind of this conversation, Gene? [40:34] **Gene Shaw:** Well, i I think sometime too we were talking about how some of these trails are going to hook up with the Skyline... is that? [40:48] **Eric Johnson:** Yes, that is the ultimate goal of this trail system is to uh, to get down into Duluth and Proctor and Duluth. That is correct. [41:00] **Gene Shaw:** Okay. And then is that going to be walking or biking or? [41:04] **Eric Johnson:** Yeah, it'd be the same thing. It'd be a 10-foot-wide paved trail. Obviously the accessibility becomes a little bit more difficult as we're getting down that hill, but that's uh... but yes, it's a paved surface so it would be both, Gene. [41:21] **Gene Shaw:** Yeah. And then the other thing is we do... there was always that discussion about that property that's up on... up oh, by Bangs Road, up up the top of the hill there on the back side of the high school. I think that's the Olson property you're talking about? [41:40] **Eric Johnson:** Yeah, yep. [41:43] **Gene Shaw:** That was three one way we're going to have baseball up there or whatever one time and kind of that's kind of died down. So that's property is still up there right, to be deliberately developed or something maybe? [41:55] **Eric Johnson:** Yes, that's correct. That's... that's 40 acres of undeveloped land that we have there. [42:04] **Mike Miller:** Where is this close to Keene Creek or? [42:07] **Natalie Peterson:** I'm... yeah, i'm sorry, we're all trying to talk. It's behind the school, kind of off of... is that off of Lindahl, Eric? [42:15] **Eric Johnson:** It is. It's Lindahl and north of uh, Arrowhead. [42:19] **Natalie Peterson:** Okay. I just wasn't sure the connection to Keene Creek. That's right. Okay. [42:25] **Mike Miller:** Is that a wrap on the Keene Creek? You have something else Natalie you want to hear from? [42:28] **Natalie Peterson:** No, I just I think Gene was just talking about some of the op... i'm putting pieces together and guessing that Steve—our Gene—was meaning that we do have opportunities with that space as well with some of the things that we are talking about as well. I think Gene, maybe that's where he's kind of going with it, that we also have this other additional space. The only thing is is it is wooded, it's not cleared, it's not some of those things, but that doesn't mean that things can't be done with it. [42:55] **Gene Shaw:** Correct. [42:56] **Mike Miller:** Another thing just out of curiosity: When I sat in on the Fichtner field subcommittee group, I know at least for me I didn't hear any talk about what we might think about for the foot... the old football field there. And I don't know whether I've missed a conversation that's covered that or not. And I'm just I'm wondering where that is in the RCI effort. [43:24] **Natalie Peterson:** Gene... our Gene? Mike? Yes, we did... i'm sorry. We talked initially about that space um, what... knowing that it's there and it has to be a part of the conversation, but I think up to this point we just kind of are starting on like sections and pieces. So it just... that... that portion hasn't really come into the discussion yet because it's been a focus more on the passive side of Fichtner with the pavilion and then those the field spaces and the basketball courts and that kind of stuff. And that is going to be a part of the discussion though, but it just we're kind of not quite there yet with that space. [44:11] **Mike Miller:** Well, would that be part of the discussion in the RCI initiative, or is it going to be some some time later? We just need to pick it up in the city discussions and Park Board discussions. [44:21] **Natalie Peterson:** It will be a part of this discussion um, because I think it logically has to be because of the location of Fichtner and the space that's available, especially when we're identifying needs. Um, so it will be. I... whatever ends up in the final, Mike, I don't know what that will look like, but I know it will be a part of the discussion. And Eric, I don't know if you have anything to add. [44:46] **Mike Miller:** The reason I wondered was just from the idea of a destination um, playground area. That does offer space, although it's a bit of ways away from the fields. I don't know whether it'd work, but just another spot that maybe something like that could occur. [45:03] **Eric Johnson:** Totally. I agree. [45:05] **Mike Miller:** Okay. [45:07] **Gene Shaw:** Is that also the uh... is soccer out of the picture now on that section, Eric? [45:10] **Eric Johnson:** I believe it's used more for captain's practices in the fall and for some more like "pick up" soccer games, activities. But as far as... [45:22] **Natalie Peterson:** I'm sorry... i'm sorry. I agree with that. Um, I think you know, the... the turf on the football field has changed the landscape a little bit with some of those sports for their use, that they're kind of gravitating more towards those spaces if they're available. And then they also as part of the turf fixed up the practice football fields over there as well next to the school. But to Eric's point, I think it's more of a captain's practice, more of an informal use on that space. And then we get to the point where the geese kind of take over on that field a little bit as well. Um, so that's what I've seen in that space. But Eric, I don't know if you've got anything additional. [46:08] **Eric Johnson:** You know, the geese do... quite use it quite a bit. Uh, I guess regardless if there is some more of a—i won't say formal—but program-type of use, means soils are a big issue over in that portion there as well that... um, it said if that was ever converted to additional baseball fields or or whatever, that we'd have to look at the soils over there also. [46:38] **Mike Miller:** Okay. Any more discussion on the new business? Okay, hearing none, we'll move on to communications. Um, there was a topic of correspondence from Ben... and I can't pronounce the last name, so... Snecki? Or how you pronounce it. You must be gonna cover that, Eric? [47:06] **Eric Johnson:** Yes, that was um... this gentleman had reached out to staff as well as um, council members. And you can see the letter from the Mayor Boucher here. These are some residents on Sunnyview Road. There's two parcels of land that are currently for sale on Maple Grove Road on the south side, and they are inquiring about the city's ability to purchase some of that property to utilize for park space. More for open space, cross-country skiing, snowshoeing, etc. I did inform this gentleman of this Art Olson Park, as you know, undeveloped land that the city has, as well as uh, the things that that Keene Creek has to offer as far as some of these trail systems and cross-country that the city already had these things. But um, at least at this point um, you know, they don't believe there's an appetite for the city to purchase any more property for park land when we already have undeveloped pieces in our inventory. So I think at this point it's just making you aware of the request and you know, if anybody has questions or concerns or feedback on that you know, to let us know. [48:12] **Mike Miller:** Okay. [48:13] **Jim Sonneson:** Here's... here's one thing right here, Jim Sonneson. I I have one thing about Fichtner field that probably we never brought up about the initiative, and that is parking. If uh... i've been at the Fichtner field for baseball games and parking is becoming a big issue. A lot of times when the fields are changing from teams to teams, they're parked out on the Maple Grove Road. So that's something to think about in the future too: Of uh, where... where can we get more parking? [48:59] **Natalie Peterson:** Jim, I agree with you. Um, I've seen that too, which becomes a safety issue with cars going 50 miles an hour on that Maple Grove Road. And I think you know, we've definitely got um, an issue to discuss about that. We also have that whole gravel area you know, on the back side of those other fields—three, four, whatever they are—over there like like to be headed towards the pavilion that are gravel, that at some point we may want to look at maybe paving those and having dedicated spaces so that they're being... it's being utilized better with more spots as well. But we're going to have to have a discussion about that as an issue. And not only that, but you've also got lots of bodies running around between field spaces there um, with little kids obviously, and I just always worry about that with so much traffic winding in and out over there. [49:54] **Jim Sonneson:** Is there a possibility we could talk to the county [to] slow during the summer time? Or to have them slow that like from the... the old fire hall all the way down... the speed limit down in that area? [50:11] **Natalie Peterson:** Jim, I wish I could tell you that was an easy thing to do, but it's not. Okay. Um, we've approached that with other spaces as well um, changing that. And Eric, you can add in on this, but is much harder than what you think it is. We've looked at it on other roads and we've gotten several requests on that. It's... it's... it's not easy to get that updated or changed. I guess... [50:39] **Natalie Peterson:** I have a question... sorry. That doesn't mean we can't look at maybe... is there more signage that we need, or you know? Because definitely I think people—when it's 50, they're going 55 or maybe even 60 you know, on that road at times. So we could talk about and talk even with the Chief about if there's you know, the flashing digital signs that we could use there or something. So that doesn't mean we can't do something more with some signage, Jim, too. [51:11] **Jesse:** I guess I guess the question I have to kind of piggyback off of this... when you're talking about Fichtner Park—and I don't know who owns it, I don't know how it ties in—but you have a huge chunk of property which I feel gets underutilized in that old football field right across the bridge. I feel like when you talk about parking, you have that big "bowl" like you say where the kids play soccer, but then you have the whole back end closest to that house to the north where the old stands used to be, where virtually you could turn all that into parking and make a big parking lot there if that was ever to be tied in. And I and I don't know where the initiative is with Fichtner Park because I'm not on that committee, but I feel like if you were to clean up that wetland area in between the park and that field, you could redo that bridge and really make that an attractable part of Fichtner Park to be utilized more than it is now. [52:04] **Mike Miller:** Yeah, that was where Natalie said the discussion on the use of that old football field area and... is going to have to end up being a part of the discussion in the recreation initiative. And so that that will... will be brought up before that's done. [52:21] **Natalie Peterson:** Part of it, I think Jesse's got a good idea there too because like when you go up to Braun Park there, big baseball complex there, you don't park very close to the fields. You park away and then walk to the fields. It's not like you have to park right next to the baseball fields. [52:41] **Mike Miller:** Yeah, you bet. We'll be sure and... at least I will be sure that we bring it up with the Fichtner Park discussion, and Natalie's aware that needs to be done also. So it'll come up. [52:51] **Eric Johnson:** Yeah. And part of it will be is... is working with the user groups as well, because we even discovered that at Rose Road initially. Once we even paved and and defined that parking lot, we were still getting a lot of people parking on the road just because it was close to the field. So uh, it's working with the user groups also and to um, you know if we do create more parking, just so they can continue to let their um, their players and families know about these other options for parking also. [53:31] **Mike Miller:** Okay. Any more comments on the communications or new business? Kind of mixing them. Okay, from there just any board member reports. And I do not have one. Gene? [53:49] **Gene Shaw:** Nope. [53:50] **Mike Miller:** Jim? [53:51] **Jim Sonneson:** I just I just gave mine here a little while ago, so no I don't. [53:56] **Mike Miller:** Natalie? [53:57] **Natalie Peterson:** Uh, nothing that we haven't discussed, Mike. Thank you. [54:02] **Mike Miller:** Okay, Kelly? [54:04] **Kelly Taske:** [Listening/No report]. [54:07] **Mike Miller:** Yeah, she's listening so I'm glad she... [54:10] **Dwight Morrison:** My only comment would be that uh, security down at the Keene Creek is probably a big issue and something that I think needs to be considered as part of the package. Just a comment. [54:26] **Gene Shaw:** May i... may I jump in there Mike? [54:28] **Mike Miller:** Yeah, I was gonna call you, so go ahead. [54:30] **Gene Shaw:** That has been a problem with Keene Creek for the last 25 years that I've been in this community. The police department at one time was going down there maybe four or five times a day and still people that shouldn't be there—doing whatever they're doing there—are there. So it's it's... it's out of sight and that's just where people go. The only way you could do it is they put a gate up there that they had to put a buck in to get it to open. That still wouldn't stop them. [55:11] **Mike Miller:** Yeah, it sounds like it does need to be a part of the consideration for sure. Okay. One of the one of the comments I had was lighting maybe was part of the issue down there too, but you don't know whether it is or not until it happens. So thank you. Okay, with that if there's no other comments, need a motion to adjourn. [55:40] **Gene Shaw:** So moved. [55:42] **Mike Miller:** Good job. [55:44] **Crystal Holden:** I'm sorry, i... i was um... I have just to check in quick um, about just the little things at the softball field. I'm sorry, I was dealing with children there for a moment. [55:54] **Mike Miller:** Sure, go ahead Crystal. [55:56] **Crystal Holden:** Okay, um, so I'm just looking at John Nixon's list here. Um, and uh, just checking in about dugouts um, with the roofs. Um, it sounded like that was something that was going to be happening—it says after the first of the year. I understand there's snow, we're just trying to keep it on the radar here. Um, so whatever the plans are with putting roofs on those dugouts on the new field. Um, and then also on field three there's no bleachers and it sounded like the bleachers from the old football field—those little bleachers that are there—were going to be moved over there um, at some point. So I'm checking in about that. And then you know, the grass issue for that new field. [56:41] **Eric Johnson:** Yeah, Crystal, Eric Johnson. So um, yes, I've been working with Paul [Senst]... we always work with the fence contractors uh, at the beginning of each season on issues. And that is one thing is they're going to be installing um, basically that um... i believe it's the chain—the the fencing, the chain-link fencing—over the top and then be able to have a shade structure sort of thing on top of that is my understanding. [57:11] **Crystal Holden:** Great. [57:12] **Eric Johnson:** Uh, yes yep, we're bringing bleachers over there as well. And then uh, as far as the turf, we're just... knowing this get the snowmelt going, uh, still working with the contractor under warranty issues for that. So um, we're going to keep keep moving along on those things. [57:31] **Crystal Holden:** Does that sound like the turf probably will not be ready for this this spring if it's got problems now? [57:38] **Eric Johnson:** I would think not. It's um, it's... it's... I want to say we probably have 65 to 70 percent plus of all the grass has come in. It's not like there's large open bare spaces; it it's uh, like more sporadic. So at this point i believe last season that we were allowing use of that field and anticipate that we would still allow that this year. So it wouldn't be out of service again this season. [58:08] **Crystal Holden:** Okay good. Thanks. [58:10] **Eric Johnson:** Crystal, thank you. [58:12] **Mike Miller:** Thank you. Okay, back to... I heard somebody make a motion to adjourn but I didn't hear who it was. I believe it was Gene? [58:20] **Jim Sonneson:** I'd second that. We're ready to go. [58:24] **Mike Miller:** Okay, uh, with that everybody in favor? **Board Members:** Aye. Aye. [58:32] **Mike Miller:** Did somebody yell something? No, if that was somebody's kid... says you don't stop. All right, we're here to adjourn. Thank you. [58:45] **Joe Wicklund:** All right, great thanks everyone. [58:47] **Natalie Peterson:** Great great meeting, appreciate it. [58:49] **Mike Miller:** Thanks everybody, we'll see ya.