Call the town board meeting for November 17th, 2025 to order. First item on the agenda is the approval. Patrick. >> Um, Mr. Chair, pleases the board under old business 6A, please remove that from your agenda this evening. >> Right. Board of anything? Not in me. No >> hearing. None. I need a motion to approve the agenda as amended. >> Move to approve the agenda as amended. >> Second. >> All in favor say I. >> I. >> That motion carries. Item three is approval payment of the bills. You sign off. >> I did move to approve payment of the bills. >> Second. >> All in favor say I. >> I. I. >> All opposed. >> All right. Item four. This is the approval of the prior meeting of November 3rd, 2025. Anybody have any changes or corrections? >> No. >> No. >> Hearing none. And I need a motion to approve. >> So moved. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> All right. Item five is a consent agenda item. We have what uh four board okay with them? Do you want to pull any of these? >> No, I'm I'm fine with them. >> Hearing that, I need a motion to approve. >> Move to approve the consent agenda items A through D. >> Second. All >> in favor say I. >> I. All opposed. >> All right. We eliminated item six. We have no public hearings or no new business or new added agenda items. So, it's going to be a short meeting, but we have open time and I understand we have some guests here. So, you want to come up uh name and address to the podium. >> This is a little different than the last one. >> Little bit. >> My name is Patrick Olson. and I live at 1141 Anderson Lane and um I'm dropping off my assessment appeal or whatever you however you term it. >> Uh you can't do it that way. >> Oh, that that was my next question. And the other question is it's not really clear on this. When I call Ramsey County where this goes to the court, I call the court, they don't want it. I call civil division, they don't want it. Criminal division want it. I don't know where to where to put this. >> I'll tell you that much. This >> first of all, you can't personally serve it because you're a party. someone other than a party has to serve it. Okay. >> Okay. >> After you serve it, you have to fill out an affidavit of service, then take the petition and the affday of service down to district court and then file it. >> Okay. And that and that's where I'm running into confusion. Which district court? Because no one wants >> Ramsey County District Court, Civil Division. >> Okay. Civil said they don't handle anything like that when I talked to him on the phone. >> They do. >> Okay. Well, that's again I'll I'll deal with that. So, when you say I have to have someone else serve that, is that just an uninterested party? >> Exactly. That's the That's the rule. You you can't an interested person cannot serve the a summon or a petition. Okay. >> Okay. >> This is just like this is like starting a regular district court action, right? Summons complaint. So, yeah, you can't serve it, but someone else can. >> Okay. That that needs to be cleared a little better on this information list. >> Well, >> because it it it it just says you have to appeal of assessment. You got uh the owner may appeal an assessment to the district court pursuant to and I'm reading something that you already know. >> Yeah. >> But it doesn't say that you have to have an uninterested party or a third party do it. Otherwise, I would have brought someone. >> That's the deal. Uh this has to be pursued to civil procedures. >> And so you have to actually read the civil civil rules to do it, >> right? And that that's my point that should be laid out here a little clearer for people to follow. Here's the problem with that >> is the notice is pretty much statutoily dictated >> what we have to put in there. >> Yep. >> And if we start adding things to it, it raises the question of statutory compliance. So I know what you're saying, >> but you're not adding anything. You're informing people. Well, >> that's not adding anything. >> No, courts have a tendency to look at it differently. Okay. Well, this this makes it very very difficult for someone if you if you're coming to the 11th hour, which I am, and that's my fault. I understand that. This makes it very difficult for somebody to do this. So, what what would qualify as an uninterested party? Anyone other than the party himself, >> Eric? >> Yeah. Now, you have to fill out an affidate of service. Okay. >> And where is that? >> I tell you what, um, unfortunately, I'm not in the office tomorrow. I'll be in trial all day, so I can't help you with that. But if you look in the municipal rules of civil procedure in the in the appendix, there should be an affidavitative of service. Okay? And if you don't if they don't have one, I'm sure if you look at the Ramsey actually and look at Ramsey County District Court, the self-help section, they should have an affidavit of service for you. >> I could not find one anywhere. >> Well, have you looked on the on the on the Ramsey County District Court website? >> Yes. >> Do this. Look in consiliation court. Consiliation Court has a bunch of forms. They have I believe they have a personal service form in consiliation court. Okay. >> Okay. So, I need an affidavit of service and I fill that out. Correct. >> No, no, no. We sort of you may fill out the form, but your your friend has to sign it and has to be notorized. Okay. >> I fill out the form. >> Either you or your friend, but whoever. Okay. >> Certainly a streamlined procedure here. >> Hang on. Okay. The form itself is pretty pretty straightforward. >> Okay. >> If you want to fill in the blanks, that's fine, but your friend has to sign it. >> Okay. >> Okay. And it has to be notorized, too. >> All right. >> Okay. >> And do we have a drop dead date on this? >> Oh, yeah. It's 30 days, which means uh Wednesday is the Wednesday is the 30th. So, yeah. >> So, write this phone number down if you don't it. This is the Ramsey County Courthouse District Court number. It's 651-2668253 and it tells you how to file complaint. >> Okay, >> that should get him in the right. >> That's on the It's in It should be in the self-help website. >> Yeah, I maybe I didn't see it. I don't know. I couldn't find it. >> That's okay. I mean, >> when when I was trying to get the records for this, I got shifted around 350 times trying to get just the uh easement information. I mean it that website in fact when I went down there to the record their uh records division they they said this is >> they wouldn't have they would >> No no no but what I'm saying when I dealt with them before it they said that their website is one of the worst that you can navigate. So um so that's where I'm running into this problem. So I have basically Wednesday till Wednesday to do this >> complete everything complete all the steps. Yeah. >> Right. But then I have an additional 10 days for the district court according to this. I >> think that's accurate. >> That is but [sighs and gasps] I mean, it's right here. >> I know. I understand. I understand. I just I'm just saying that you think you're pushing I just here's what I'm here's my only thing I'm going to tell you. You definitely got to get it served right away on on on Pat or >> Right. And I could just do that town hall. Correct. >> Yeah. You could right you could >> and then my I'm this is my last piece of advice. Okay. I would suggest once you get it served to go down there to the court as quick as possible and file it with your affidavit of service. Okay. >> And that's on Kellogg 14. >> Yeah. Okay. >> The Rams County Courthouse building. >> All right. Well, that they've been move they move civil civil division around all the time. So, I don't know where they are anymore. They used to be on the seventh floor. >> Yeah. I have no idea. I'll I'll try to find that out. >> Call that. Maybe the number will get you to the right place. >> Yeah. Well, like I say, that would help people if that was a little clear on the instructions. I mean I I understand the statutory I I I understand that stuff. Okay, I get that. But you can also have a little bit clearer guidance on that those steps need to be done or either that or put the or put the uh statute on this sheet so people know what to do. I mean this this is very very confusing. >> Well, we cite the stat we cite the actual statutory procedure. Okay, I'll tell you what. We'll look at the notice. All right. >> Yeah. No, I appreciate that. That's that's where I'm going with it. I'm not trying to be argumentative with you. I know you're not. You know, it's just it's just very confusing and when people get into crunch time, it makes it a little bit stressful because I definitely don't want to go past this date for a variety of reasons of which you will see. >> Um, I understand >> it was explained to me not too long ago that the bumps in the roads on these on these uh projects with Jenny Lane, Portland, and Anderson, I got one of the biggest bumps. So, um it's something that I'm definitely going to >> and I found it for you. I'll actually send it to you. >> Pardon me. This is correct. >> Um the other a couple things that I just wanted to touch base >> Yeah. affate of personal service. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> And I'll send it to you. >> Okay. Thank you. Um just a couple of points of interest. It's just I I just want to make sure that people the board knows that I'm not going away on this. I'm not going to I don't I'm not putting the Dukes up, but the fact of the matter is I'm not just going to go away. I mean, we've been uh 11 weeks on this project. They were back out there today. um it was Anthony Sodto and North Valley >> and looking at some of the some of the issues that are still there. The basins still aren't unplugged. They're still the catch basins are plugged. There's seven of them on the road that haven't been lifted and the basins are, you know, the the bags are in there still. They're supposed to come out to do that. There's a bunch of uh flags up and down the block. Nobody knows what that is. And then when I talked to Anthony Sodto, he was saying that where they dug out on the hillside of my property, um they were talking about doing hydro seating. Well, hydro seeding is not going to do anything particularly this late in the year with snow coming because I've already got erosion happening there. So, I don't know if it's a band. I just want to go on record. I told him, listen, if that's what they think is going to do something, go right ahead. Because he wanted to talk to me about it before, but in no way, shape, or form is that a mitigation or remediation on on that. But hydroine is basically just for erosion through the winter also. And and that's usually a combination of rye and blue grass. So next year >> it's too late to do that. >> Oh no, not no it's not. They're doing it all. You'll see them you'll see them do it all the time. >> I'm just telling you >> it'll it'll come through in the spring and and then the following year the rye will die out and hopefully the bluegrass will take over. >> The problem is there needs to be severe restoration on that bank. I got tree roots sticking out and I've already got a big in fact supervisor had been out to see it. I I got a real issue on that bank and hydro seeding is not going to address. >> I imagine that's probably under the punch list for the contractor before he's going to get paid. >> Okay, then and that answers my next question. Thank you. That saves me. >> Well, no, we hold we hold money on these guys just because of that reason. >> Okay. U because when they the one last thing I I want to indicate is that um I know that Larry Popppler was the contact and Jim and and Anthony for TKDA. Um, with the exception of Anthony, they have been far less than responsive. I've asked for over a month now to have that survey stake replaced on on my property line between myself and and uh the cell property. Nothing. Nothing. He indicated to me that they have a survey crew and I still haven't seen that out there. So, I did some basic measurements and again you'll see some of the stuff later on on how much was torn up, dug up and created a pond in my yard um off easement and rightway and I'm going on the best that I can do by measuring it myself because they have still haven't replaced that pin and I so I'm I'm I'm just not even I'm done with that. I I think I think the service from that was not good on a hundred levels and I don't know who needs to step in on some of this stuff, but it's just not getting done. I mean, we're again, we're we're 11 weeks out on this project and we had no weather delays on this weather on this project on Anderson Lane. So, that would equate to 1.72 miles a year of road that would get done at that rate. That seems a little bit slow to me. I'm not in construction, but that seems a little off. Um I don't know. It's it's it's been frustrating at best. Um I do know that um and and I know you know that Volamo is involved in this and the um Anderson Engineering was out on the 3 and was looking at that. So I know that there's going to be some time before any reclamation or the decisions are made. I I got a hold of is it Brian? >> Um >> yeah, >> Brian. Yeah, >> Ryan Cochran. Yes. Yeah. Nice fellow. Um, just to let him know that his name was in this document that I have here because I wouldn't I wouldn't submit a document with somebody knowing that their name was in it. And he's been very receptive and he's saying they're still looking at historical stuff and I understand that this is going to take a little while. But that's why this is so important for me to get in on a timely fashion because there are so many other um components to this before the assessment goes in. I mean, I'm getting assessed on something that I mean, they did more harm to my property than good. That's that's without a doubt. So, um, having that said, that's that's pretty much what I I I will try to get a hold of those folks and get this done as quickly as I can. Um, even though I'm retired, time is going to be a crunch here for me. And I wish it was just a little clearer on how to do this because I would have done it prior to now. >> Well, we're going to pass these concerns along to TKDA and see if if uh how they're sitting on it. So we're not getting he said she said. So >> Right. Right. Yeah. No, I appreciate that. >> Okay. >> All right. Thank you. >> Thanks, B. Mary Feahhee 530180 Circle in the township and I'm here to figure out what the status of the property the uh unsafe structure and property on Second Street that we've talked about few weeks ago. And I want to I have questions, but I want to also thank Supervisor Artner for for her responsiveness to my many questions and to you know trying to get information and stay on top of this process because I really don't know where we are and what is being done and um there hasn't been a lot of information that's come to me. So, um, the last I understood that the that the issue was taken up was at the, um, September 26th, uh, executive board meeting. I read the packet that in preparation for that meeting. There's a few there's three items in it. The first one, um, is the is titled the order to demolish or repair unsafe structure. It's dated September 17, 2025. Um, as I read it, it it it it makes it sound as though the property at 2537 Second Street has been evaluated. Um, and it lists a number of uh unsafe and bad conditions on the property that would need to be either remediated or or addressed by the owner. As I understand it, the owner did not step forward uh to challenge the um the abatement procedure. Additionally in the packet is the substantial abatement procedure. Um and also uh a a letter that is a complaint for administrative search warrant that this must be just a form. It's dated 2009, so it must be just a city form. Um, but again, the September 17th order to demolish or repair seems to seems to me to say that that that has already occurred or that that uh assessment of the property has already occurred. I reached out to Mike Johnson weeks ago. He referred me to you and said, you know, I'll send this on to you. Um, so what am I to understand? The next step is the board will adopt a resolution under this under the statute which will list all the items that have to be have to be repaired. And I will talk to Mike about that because whatever we list in the resolution, we can't go beyond that. If they fix everything in the resolution, then they've resolved the problem. In that resolution under statute, we have to give them a reasonable time to make those repairs. Now, the order has been done. That's step one. Step two now is to adopt the resolution that and I'll talk to Mike. I will tell you right now, it's not going to be till probably Thursday at the earliest because I have another m I have two matter I have another matter that's going to take up the next two days. And once Mike gives me the list of everything that has to be done, then we will put that in the resolution. I've got the bare I got the barebones resolution set to go. I just need to talk to Mike, get the final list. Then the that resolution will be adopted by the board. We'll have to give them reasonable time to correct. Normally that's 60 to 90 days. The board will have to decide that. Then we serve that on the owner and the owner has the right within 20 days after that service to challenge that in which case it becomes a district court action. But that's the procedure under statute. That's procedure we have to follow. >> I understand that there's a procedure. And I'm just wondering what the what the delay is because this letter which is written by Mike Johnson. Now just wait. It says you are hereby order to correct the violations as followed within 21 days. You shall obtain the required building permit. I mean so as I said before the order is step one. Step two now is to adopt a resolution by the town board. I have to get everything from Mike so we can so I can wrap up that resolution. I I assume I'll see Mike no later than Friday at the exec meeting. I will get that list from him. I can then send a resolution in to be put on the next next board meeting. And at that point in time, the board will adopt a resolution which directs them to to correct the problems. And again, once that resolution is adopted and served on them, they have 20 days to file to respond. And if they if they object within 20 days, then it becomes a district court action. Forgive my my slow comprehension of this. So, back in September, apparently, you notified the owner of the property. He had seven days to respond and >> I did. >> Yes. That's the order, >> right? >> But that's, as I said, that's step one. >> Okay. >> Step two is the if he doesn't, they don't comply, they apparently, and they haven't >> is to adopt a resolution of the board. Okay, >> that resolution requires that Mike give me give a list of what has to be done to the property, >> which I think he has. >> Well, I haven't seen the complete list. I have not seen the list. So, I will talk to Mike about that. Get the complete list because I I want to emphasize that whatever is that we we can only require they repair what's on the list. So, it has to be a complete list. Now, you mentioned administrative search warrant. Mike and I talked about this and he felt that a search warrant was no longer necessary because he had an add he had enough information about the property >> to proceed without one. >> Okay. >> So, >> so I so so it would be reasonable to assume that this list that he's compiled is based on his prior assessment of the property or what he already knew about the property. >> That's my assumption, too. Yes. Yes, you I agree with you on that. That's that's my assumption, too. >> Okay. And then we we incorporate Mike's list of repairs in the resolution and the resolution has to give them a reasonable time to complete the repairs. If they don't, then we can then we can apply to the court to tear the house down. Now, that assumes that assumes that they don't object to it. The last time we had to go this far was the house on Stillwater Avenue >> and they did object to it. >> Then what happens? >> Yeah. that and so we had to um we had to have a we had another court hearing on that that house that stretched another six months. So it's not the easiest process in the world but it's the process we're required to follow. >> Right. Okay. So the next step is to have Mike compile this list, give it to you, then it's considered by the >> board at the next meeting which will be in December. >> The board adopts a resolution. >> Right. Okay. And then at that point the owner is notified, >> correct? They has to be served >> and the owner has 21 days. >> No. Well, they have they have no we have to give him a a reasonable time in the in the in the resolution itself. >> Okay. >> And to be honest with you, that's >> I'd have to talk Mike would have to has input on that, but it probably be 60 days. >> Is that to to pull permits or come up with a plan or to >> complete everything? Actually, >> complete everything. >> Yeah. Complete the repairs. Okay. Okay. >> And not just not just apply for the permits, but actually complete everything. >> Okay? >> That's why that's why I say I use a reasonable time. But the 20 days I'm talking about, if they decide if they want to object to the resolution, they have to object within 20 days of the date it's served on them. >> And just out of curiosity, if they object, what what what then do you have what leverage do you have for having the property improved within a reasonable? If they object to it, then it becomes a full full-blown court uh district court filing. >> Okay? >> It's a court action just like [clears throat] it did on just the same the case in U apologize. Uh just same same as Still Water. Okay. >> In Still Water, they did file an objection. >> We did schedule a summary judgement hearing on that. Their attorney withdrew before that, so it was a pretty easy summary judgement hearing. >> Okay. >> But that's the process. Now, you don't get a summary. Are you familiar with I the term summary judgement means that there's no issue material fact. It's simply a case of law. >> Okay. >> Um if they really want to fight it, I don't think I could try a summary judgement, but I got a feeling if they do actually decide to fight it, the court's going to require a hearing to determine everything. But so it becomes basically a full-blown court action. >> And who brings that action? The the township. >> The township. Yeah. The Okay. We file the resolution. We serve the resolution. Mhm. >> Okay. We adopt the resolution. [laughter] >> Sorry. >> No, it's okay. It's okay. We adopt the I'm getting a look. We adopt the resolution. We serve the resolution. They then have 20 days to file the objection. Okay. >> At that point, once they file the objection, we'll file everything with the court. >> Okay? >> And then becomes a regular court file. It's like a regular summons and complaint. And the next step hopefully is a summary judgement motion. But if that doesn't if that doesn't work, if that doesn't is not granted, then it's a regular court trial. Now, I will point out something that in Ramsey County and Henipin County, any civil action, it's a civil action is required to go to mediation. So, we'd probably I would suspect we'd be going if they we get this if they file an objection and we we don't win a summary judgement motion, which I got to tell you is a bit of a problem because they're going to dispute everything in the you know, whatever. But then we'd probably go to mediation and try to work out work out a deal with them. Well, actually, we're required to go to mediation. If we can't work out a deal, then it goes to trial because mediation alter actually it's called alternative dispute resolution. That's required in Ramsey County and Henipin County. So the the most flexible one is mediation which parties sit down and try to work something out. If they don't, then it goes it goes to trial. But you know that's I don't I'd like to avoid a trial in this situation because that just expand that just pushes out farther. >> Sure. You know, >> Patrick, isn't this a private or corporation that owns this? >> Oh, yeah, it is. >> Corporation owns it. And I think part of the delay was they were playing games because they came to Mike with a building permit and it was not near complete. >> So, that took a couple weeks. Then Mike had to go back and said, "Your permit's denied because you're not we're not going to let you throw some windows in." >> Then they then they said, "Well, we're going to come back with a completed permit." So, they've been kind of stringing us along a little bit too on this one. >> When did those actions happen? Was that recent or? >> Uh, I don't know. It's been a couple three months. >> Few months. >> Okay. >> But you're not doing You're not dealing with a private individual. You're dealing with a a company that rehabs houses. I think that's what they do. >> Yeah. I was going to say a he mentions the one on Still Water. You know, that's the same thing that went on there. They they they wo is me and they they have an incomplete application. Can't we can't accept it because it wasn't right. then the court says work with them and it just drags slowly and there you're not going to get before the court every week. It doesn't work that way. And that's basically why we need to go the resolution route because >> once you once you adopt the resolution, it pretty much says, "Okay, enough. >> Do what you're supposed to do." [clears throat] >> But trust me, we haven't forgot about this, but it's just it's time consuming. I'm sure >> property owners have rights and it's it's >> you just can't go in there and say you're done. >> So, is there any any does it mean something that you've you gave them seven days from September 17th to respond and they they were a no-show on that? Does that mean something to the process or >> it it it's accumul accumulation. I mean, it's not the end, you know, it's not the end all. >> Okay. Because again this you know said as I said step one is do that step two is adopt a resolution. Okay. >> Then step three, as part of the resolution, go to court. >> And sometimes that helps us in our defense because of the delays and the nonresponses. The courts may look at that and say, "Look, you're all you're doing is string us along." >> Right. >> This would actually be the third one we had to go that far. We had Still Water. Was it Town Line, Town Road, Township Drive? Township. >> That was another one that um >> that also went this [clears throat] far. And >> okay, >> that took >> they finally eventually just resolved the problem. But that was another that took that was months on that one. >> Is that an in-state owner or an out of state owner? Do you remember this one? >> Fredley. >> No, this one's this one's Fredley. Yeah. Right. The other two that he's mentioning were were private ownership. This is at least a company. So the the courts may look at >> that a little different than individuals who are trying to >> save their property, >> right? whatever. >> So, it's a process. >> If the next >> thing that happens after you and Mike sort your stuff out, we would know something by the next or it'll be on the agenda at the next meeting. >> Um, probably not. It would be the second meeting in December because we're doing our budget tax meeting on the first. >> Okay. >> So, it would just >> Yeah. >> But she can track it through the the meetings, correct? Right. >> Yeah. So, you'll be able to see >> we'll get the resolution ready to go. >> Okay. >> I'll talk to Mike. I don't see him this week. I see him before Friday. I'll see him on Friday, right? He'll be at the meeting. So, he and I can sit down and we'll get the list and just incorporate that in the resolution. >> Okay. >> And I've got the resolution pretty well. I got the resolution mapped out. >> I'm just wondering how it would be best for me and for other interested neighbors to kind of keep on top of of the process and, you know, to know where we're where in fact we are in the process. >> Look for the packet when you see the resolution of the packet. Okay. That'll be in the in the uh exec board packet or in the >> December uh 15th agenda for the >> Yeah, for this meeting. >> The the board cannot adopt a resolution at the exact meeting. It has to be at a regular public regular board meeting. >> So, it would probably be new a new business item. >> Yeah. >> On our on our agenda for >> put it on my calendar. >> That I think >> or it can be a Christmas thing. Okay. Well, I think that answers my questions. Thank you very much. You're welcome. >> Thank you. [laughter] >> All right. Anyone else? Going once. Going twice. >> Thank you. >> All right. Open time's over. And uh item 11. I need a re motion to receive agenda materials and supplements. >> So moved. >> Second. All >> favor say I. I. >> I need a motion to adjurnn at 7:28. >> So move. >> Second. All in >> favor. We are