R call please council member Cole here council member schweer here council member nordby here council member Wong is absent mayor mongi here and a motion to adopt the agenda please so moved so moved council member Cole second second council member Norby all those in favor say I I I I thank you consent to generous City business action items and recommendations all right I'll take it from here we got first item up is a resolution cening the municipal election results on November 5th 2024 general elections um so we're looking for a resolution um background facts Minnesota State Statute 25.1 185 requires cities to certify and declare their election results between three and 10 days following the election city council acts as the canvasing board there are two City Council seats on the 2025 ballot candidates for municipal office were City count for city council was David McKenzie Caesar Roso and Troy Woods North St Paul had 7,749 registered voters as of 7 a.m. and 588 persons registering on Election Day November 5th 2024 according to the state Secretary or according to the Secretary of State website the candidates received the following totals David McKenzie 2439 votes Caesar Renos so 221 votes Troy Woods 2512 votes and rins of 95 votes uh so we are looking for a recommended action of the city council to approve the resolution certifying and declaring the local election results for November 5th 2024 General Municipal elections can I get a motion please so moved so move council member swe second second council member Norby all those in favor say hi hi hi thank you congratulations gentlemen congratulations all right next up is uh review and discussion of the 2025 to 2034 Capital Improvement plan I'll turn that over to finance director Dan winck mayor council members if you give me a second to see if I can get this thing up and running do he for that's from Lisa did you say it's from Lisa want to see it which is funny because they just brought that up mayor council members uh tonight we'll go over um and take a look at uh the 2025 to 20 uh 34 Capital Improvement plan plan um this is the second to last um component that's a part of the 2025 budget um next week uh we will hear about the the last component and that's the fee schedule that needs to be approved on an annual basis um so with uh the capital Improvement plan I kind of copied a couple of the summaries um in this presentation part to it and let's just show you kind of the category summary um for a 10-year look um you'll see that we have the buildings and facility improvements and these are uh the numbers um and I'll give you a little bit more explanation on that um but these are the uh numbers that are coming from um the uh Wold uh facility assessment that have been incorporated into the capital Improvement plan um and then there's been uh parks in uh playgrounds pass in open space um has had some updates uh based upon uh the park park and rec commission um obviously you can see the street and utility reconstruction plan and and earlier this year we we saw a change in in that um here's of the different funding uh Source summaries right now this is where the they would be funded from um I'll go in a little bit more of an explanation uh to to kind of share with you that not all of this can be funded unless we make some changes um moving forward um so we'll kind of get into that in a little bit more depth but you can see over a 10e look there's $103 Million worth of of uh improvements that are needed across a wide variety of categories and funding sources um in this report um it does incorporate the Ws facility assessment um it incorporates updated Parks and Recreation committee projects it incorporates wsb's increas increase in the payment rehabilitation program um the impact of this 2025 to 2034 CIP Levy uh or impact on the levy would be that for buildings and facility improvements um we have two pots of money that we could utilize to help offset um costs that are related to the buildings and Facilities uh we could utilize the asset preservation funds um that currently has a balance of about a little over $1.7 million we could utilize arpa funds uh which is has a balance of almost $1.5 million even with that it would require us to change our current Levy right now we have a levy um dedicated to facilities of 0.45% we would have to increase that to 2.1% um that is not in the budget that has been shown to date uh these W numbers have come in after everything that you've seen and what we certified for the maximum um Levy for playgrounds um um and Parks uh due to some of the changes that they've had in their plans um we would have to increase the current Levy from 0.55 to 6 that again is not um included in the budget and then the street improvements what you've seen for the costs um that had been presented to you earlier in the year um in the recommend ation was that we would increase the levy from uh 2.0% to 3.5 that is included in the 2025 proposed budget kind of want to give you kind of a quick update of where we're at as far as the budget is concerned since the last time that we've we've met um we had some options that were available to city council um first of all I I want to give a thank you to city council um if you remember when we're setting the maximum Levy there were some options to reduce the levy um we were at 9.88% total that's all components that includes the city HRA and the Eda and city council deferred uh making any reductions at that point in time um in in large um respect to uh the fact that we were in uh Union negotiations um with our five unions um the five unions have pretty much tentatively agreed I think three of them have been approved by city council two will be coming forth to city council to be approved they've been agreed to um on the union side um so I'll kind of take you through those those items um we had one that uh there was an update um of the downtown design manual there was a recommendation um at that uh at that point in time when we did the maximum Levy to um instead of funding that report um in 60 of $60,000 from the general fund that we would um funded from the Eda um the Eda has agreed to do that um so the budget has been changed um accordingly so we can reduce that $60,000 from the levy components of our of our budget um we've also had some good news as far as having increases in our fire Aid Revenue um that we received um this year in 2024 so we've increased the estimated revenue for that um of $122,800 um uh we do have to to transfer some of that savings over to the Fire Relief uh by definition by State uh statute definition um to transfer it over to the Fire Relief Association that's um $7,200 so that changed kind of a Nets about $5,600 for us we also received an increase in their police Aid Revenue um of a little over $33,000 um and then um we have um come across a program through the P that we can get reimbursement um through the dis uh disability reimbursement program um for some of our officers that for their health insurance that that the city's currently paying for um and we estimate that at about $44,500 um so that's a revenue that we were now starting to recognize um within that I want to give a lot of credit to uh Jenny uh for um bird dogging that and and uh filing all the paperwork U for us to get that reimbursement and then um what was not in our budgets um based upon my review over the union contracts and and updating our salary projections that um in the general fund those Union contracts um with the cost of living increases um and some of the other changes will increase um the general fund uh Levy [Music] $143,000 all in all all of those items we ups and downs um we still can get ourselves back to that 9.88% which is our maximum Levy what that does then is gives us some um additional options that we had um talked about before um that we potentially could could do to um reduce our Levy um and again all of these are these options are up to you um to make a decision and and to hear from you which direction you want to go um if you remember um we could reduce the HRA Levy um back down to only $1,000 from the 50,000 which would be a $39,000 reduction if we were to fund those two components um based upon the parks in the buildings um that are going to be uh shown in our CIP um that would require us adding back $120,000 um and then we would end up having to utilize um taking 100% of the penalty charges from the electric to the general fund which is approximately $131,000 that could bring us down to a 99.2% levy increase for the year um again you don't need to make a a you know a decision on those tonight um next week um we will in our Workshop we will talk about some of these opportunities is I've always said through the budget process there's two sides to the equation there's an expenditure side and there's a revenue side and so the expenditure side we've we've looked at our budgets um tonight you're seeing another big component of our expenditures and that's our Capital Improvement plan um next week we'll also talk about some um opportunities um for potentially additional Revenue sources for the city to offset um they'll include but are not limited to um talking about the sales tax um and what potentially that could look like we'll also talk about um special assessments um and what that potentially could look like at at some different various scenarios we'll also look at the possibility and see how some cities have have done on their liquor operations that was something that was brought up which would require a change in legislation we also want to find out what is the appetite um from city council as far as potentially running a cannabis um operation um um those are just some of the ideas that are are thrown out there um again that's not there will be a few more items that we'll bring up um maybe some different charges that we currently aren't doing as far as on our inspection side um once upon a time in the city there was a a downtown kind of service charge for snow plowing maybe it's bringing some of that back what would be some of the estimated Revenue that we could perceive from or receive from some of those so those items will be talked um about next uh uh next week on Tuesday in addition we'll want to see your direction on where do you want staff to look at and many of those Revenue sources aren't going to into play in this 2025 budget but it's something for us to uh for staff to start to work at to get gather more information some may be able to be put in place right away in 20 you know for the 2025 budget but it's for us to do that long-term plan one of the things that I've heard loud and clear um and I absolutely agree is that we're putting more and more of a burden on our residents um and with these dedicated levies to help with our infrastructure we really do need to look at that Revenue new side to it and see what other opportunities are there in addition you know it doesn't preclude us from looking at our expenditure sides um you know we really need to challenge those and see how can we do things maybe a little bit differently than we're doing it today um in your packet you have the complete Capital Improvement um plan um in addition you have the complete Wold um report kind of want to give you a a little kind of highlevel snapshot or or discussion part to it we received the uh wal facility report um the initial uh report that we received um was over $25 million um was the cost um these are some of the items that um I had gone through um and also assisted by um Mr Richie um and uh Mr Miller we kind of went through um that uh that W report there were some duplications so we've eliminated those they had an inflation Factor I'm not saying it's right or wrong um but we wanted to to bring it back to kind of more of where the the uh the feds have been targeting with their interest rate um expansion and their target is um really a 2% but you know that range of 2 to 3% W was using a 42% annual inflationary amount amount we reduced it to 3% they also had in there a uh factor in there for total project costs in other words engineering architectural um contingencies so forth um built in there at 30% um we have a a very respected company that's been working on our streets for a number of years they never achieve they never hit a 30% um normally it's some somewhere in the range of 20 to 25% at tops and that's including a contingency so we reduced that from a 30% to a 22 1.2% we also changed some of the years they had put everything at the last year of their priority so anything that was in 20126 went to 2025 29 to 28 32 to 31 we left the 34 alone those changes that we made based upon assumptions and duplications and so forth reduce that cost $7.2 million so what's being shown in the capital Improvement plan are our facility needs identified through the W Report with those assumptions of a total of a little over $18 million versus the $25 million so those are some of the the changes that um that you're going to see in that in that report also as you go through through those reports and and like last year we had all of the department heads here for the CIP uh we didn't think that that was as necessary because we were focusing on the 2025 year and here's the the reasons for that from the police department the only item that they have requested here for the to be funded out of the 2025 is B uh body warn cameras and that has been set up as an annual replacement um and so um that's all they have um that's identified in the 2025 budget um from the fire department it's the uh freight liner pumper that actually was brought earlier this year um and got City council's approval to move forward with that um so what's showing is the remainder that would be owed on that amount um we're going to be uh very shortly and and you'll see it come up as a uh as a an accounts payable um request to to be approved by city council there doing that first payment um the chassis is almost done approximately about $295,000 and then the remainders in this budget that total number between this year and next year has increased approximately $30,000 from what's been in the CIP in the past and it's due to a couple of change orders and components and you'll get all that full documentation um for approval um just like you did in the past at a later date the electric fund um when when um the electric director Mr Wick was here he kind of explained his CIP he's got underground wire replacement he's got an escavator um that's really there's not a lot more into it so we're we're the bulk of our changes in in discussion on the capital Improvement plan are going to come on facilities um it's going to come on that street maintenance um and it's going to come on to some of the other utilities outside of the electric so with me tonight to help answer any questions that we have we have the very dis distinguished director um Mr Mr Richie from the public works who um oversees many of these components that are in the capital Improvement plan in addition to many of our operating budgets and then in addition we have um Morgan um here from WSB to help uh kind of explain some of that street Improvement um program and some of the rationale behind that changing um for that pavement Rehabilitation um and he did speak about that earlier in the year um and that's where we made that shift from a 2% to 3.5% um so with that I'm kind of G to pause for a moment and kind of hear from city council and what do you want to look at and get down um maybe in more specifics with some questions um obviously it's a lot to digest with that facility um assessment um component to it um it's changed drastically but if you remember um I've always said that we've definitely were understated in our facilities and that's why we had an a facility assessment done um it's if if you look and we'll can take a quick little peek here at uh the building Improvement component to it now I put them all in bold and those bold um prints that are there I put it basically by buildings on how it came off the um the W report um we've got the over the 10 years the community center building would be you know approximately $6.8 million um city hall building itself just under 4 million uh Public Works building about 5 million dollar um again none of none of those facilities in include anything like renovation type of items they're really kind of uh taking care of the exterior making sure that it's watertight um it's your roofs it's your if there's tuck pointing that's needed it's your HVAC systems and so forth that's really kind of what's what's driving that um so those three facilities obviously of $18 million um you know is picking up um almost 16 million of that $18 million so that's really your driving force on your facilities your three main facilities that that um are going to cause cost a lot of money over time um to maintain and again when we look at all three of the facilities they all have one thing in common they're all going to need in the next 10 years a roof replacement um and those roof Replacements are going to be spendy those are probably your biggest costs and then HVAC is another big cost in all three of those uh facilities um over time thoughts questions a lot to digest I'm looking at the prices or that the the priorities excuse me for City Hall tuck pointing and cocking as well as Public Works tuckpointing and cocking and this is am I reading this properly where it says it's out let's do public works first this is Page 21 um that doesn't need to be done until 2028 correct but it's priority number one yeah I think priority when and it's kind of really the definitions of those priorities which I'll kind of go back through our definitions of priorities it's critical right but it's critical in 2028 okay does that make sense oh yeah yeah yeah yeah I mean but the fact that we just got all this from wal it is that's why I'm so tuck pointing was not included in the world report interesting yes and if you remember when they were here to present at that one point in time yeah what was one of the questions that I asked I didn't see roofs on there uhhuh every one of the facilities is 20 years plus right and you don't have a roof on there um and the answer at that point in time was oh they're still under warranties well I don't know 20 to 25 year warranties that are on there but when they went back through there um you know and and and to their defense I think they were underneath the understanding all of them were taken care of um through that last hail storm and the roofs that were taken care of were really more of the Shel the smaller shelter there's all the shingled buildings shingled buildings it wasn't any of our major facilities um which obviously are big ticket items um and so they have included those in there now um and again to me tuck pointing is some is something that every 25 years 50 years it's a major yes um tuck pointing 25 you usually can get away with um you know um doing just certain areas um once you've done a review of the facility but again you want to make sure that if there's any cracking whatsoever even as Tiny as it is that is taken care of at that time because unfortun we get a lot of water in the freeze it'll crack those wide open so we we've come up with anything you don't see in Bolder are really kind of estimates that staff has put together to kind of incorporate things that we saw as we went through that report that that we believed should have been okay so when you read through this round are you good with everything that we got here as far as the report back is there things that you look at that you thought boy that's a long time to wait for or what your thoughts what uh Randy and I did well Randy and I and Dan and uh Brian did is we kind of went through and looked at all world's priorities and some of them I yeah we adjusted kind of things to be for lack of better term more realistic for for timing on stuff you know like for the for the roofs on a lot of the buildings you know this building and Public Works buildings the roofs are still in in really good shape um but so yeah that's why a lot of these are pushed out um years and we like we'll re-evaluate in you know three four five years uh HVAC stuff um you know most of the time you on these flat roofs you end up replacing the HVAC stuff when you do the roof because they got to be they usually don't work around them they usually take them off put a new roof on put them back on so yeah for the most part with I'd say for the first uh couple years we kind of we honed in on those and kind of tweaked in on those numbers the stuff that's out further so when you're looking at tuck pointing in 2028 um that's stuff that we're going to re-evaluate you know when we get closer to that time you know the year prior so we did do some a lot of tweaking on their guesstimates or estimates on when things needed to be done so you kind of did the you know sign off on the report to say yep you know we're kind of in agreement with this yes Y for the most part the stuff like I said for 2025 um 2026 you know we got to take it year by year because there's so much stuff that you know we we kind of Define it okay all the number one priorities and then a lot of those number one priorities I don't want to say we Chang them from a one to a two but we we moved them up from you know 25 might out to 26 possibly or 27 so kind of tweaked all those or massage those things um to where we thought it would be you know a better fit so so it's just going to be an ongoing EV eval and things you come up of what we can afford to do did I kind of did I answer your question and if we get a bad winter or bad free Au cycle things are going to be moving around yeah yeah so and and just cuz it's such a you know it's everything that we own you know and there's a number assigned to pretty much everything you know it's yeah we had uh yeah so yeah I'm for for 2025 you know I'm I'm I'm very comfortable 2026 I said I'm more comfortable but I think there's things things as the years go on that will that we will you know evaluate each year for the budget so thank you other thoughts questions you know I think the biggest thing for for us um is you know when stuff go starts going bad or we have something that goes out uh boiler that goes out or something we have we at least have some money set CER that's kind of assigned for our building maintenance so it's kind of making baby steps here to come up with a a plan to be able to pay for this stuff you know as it happens and you know we go on the street where everything is good then all of a sudden you know a couple things will go out and it's you know $20,000 to replace a boiler or something so I think getting going here I keep excuse me hitting the mic um getting going here just to have a a plan in place to get started and this is just going to be something that's going to be a work in Pro progress as we go on here so yeah this is a living document it it it's meant to change over time um as we get more and more comfortable with it the nice component with this from from Wold is that we got an Excel spreadsheet of all of the detailed um so then we can update and make changes with it as as you know as time moves on um so that's a very good comp component that we received back from from them it's not just a report all done again it's part that it is a living document it is going to change from year to year um and just like Ron had said that you know there's potential the roofs aren't in bad shape this is kind of when they when they should be um normally with a rough what you're going to do is you're going to end up having a you know a a review of your rof a couple of years before it's actually necessary um you know you get a a a a roofing company come out there they'll look at it they'll say hey I can make some small remediations to the roof for $330,000 they'll give you an extend your life 5 to8 years on your roof that may be an option to do versus the replacement of it um but um what we're looking at here is these costs are going to come one way or the other and how does the city get themselves in a position to be able to afford it when it does come um and obviously you can you can see that this is the first time all of this information has been put together um you in the city so we don't have that plan of how we're going to pay that coming moving into the future again we do have a couple of pots of money um that you know come to you know somewhere about $3.2 million that could be utilized for this although city council may make the decision to utilize it for something else too um again and that's kind of that importance of wanting to make sure that you're comfortable with what's what's being presented in front of you um again it's going to change um for sure um and then it's really to get into those dialogues of again that equation uh what expenditures can be can could potentially be reduced you know what revenues could be increased um to make sure that we're just not putting all of the burden um to the residents through a levy um but um as um as we went through this um then um in addition to to meeting with uh Ron and and uh Randy to make sure that they were comfortable that we felt that this was as inclusive as it possibly could be that the timing of things were pretty accurate um that we kind of believed in the validity of what the cost estimates were um then this whole um CIP was presented um to our city manager uh frandle um and he went through this with a fine tooth comb um part of one of the discussions that that we both looked at at this um and credit goes to him um and I know it was brought up in one of our um U I think in our last budget meeting and I'll bring your attention to it it's on page 23 of the 251 and it's underneath the payment preservations where we have $500,000 for the mcnight Field parking lot um it was incorporated into the budget that may be something that we don't want to have in the budget for 2025 here's the reasoning behind it uh is that hga is in the process of doing a rep are are doing a study um so we certainly don't want to move forward with doing something in the parking lot that potentially would change um once um the report is done and City Council has an opportunity to make that final decision onto it now we definitely could take it out of 2025 doesn't mean that we can't if if at the end the report did show that yeah you really do need to get that that parking lot that's kind of like step one let's get that done doesn't mean that we can't bring that item back um at any point in time and have it funded at that point in time um so that's something for consideration I know that there was was comment um you know on that um in the budget um which makes a lot of sense and and again our our our city managers the one who said you know why are we doing things when we still have studies um that are out there so par Rec acknowledges that as well I mean as we're going through that process with hga that why why is this budgeted as we are looking at the budget yeah it makes zero sense to touch that field if we're exploring other options yeah so that may be something we we we certainly can um have it in there and um just like we did last year uh when the CIP gets final approval which will be the the last meeting in December that we can put part of we can have a resolve in there that it's approved but it needs to be brought back for city council um for for final approval or approval to move forward with it so it it it'll it would be in the budget but then we authorized and we did that on a few items last year um for those if you remember and so those items to move forward would require another city council action um and we certainly can do that part to it um part of part of looking at that you know me and maybe overstepping my bounds but part of part of that is then that logical reasoning that that is shown with that hga study and kind of like not moving forward with that then um and I know it's been a Hot Topic so I'm not trying to go that I'm just trying to look at it from a logical standpoint is going back to like the community center and our last budget discussion one of the components that was brought up was um let's get that facility open um so we can start to generate Revenue um on the surface that looks like that's a fantastic idea and I agree with because we're going to have operational costs that we're going to have to cover however when we take a deeper dive into into that we look at that and um we have gone out and gotten some estimates um just on some mechanical components for that and there's a number of heat pumps um that would need to be replaced um and they come to approximately $76,000 in addition there's going to be something necessary for the gym floor and then we're still waiting on the elevator to find out what the costs are that that would be above and beyond the operational cost so then the question comes by the same token as having an hga study is that next week city council will have the opportunity to um pass um the feasibility study so question is do we move forward now or do we wait for that feas feasibility study to be done so city council has all of the information to move forward with it from a pure Financial standpoint the question comes can you generate Revenue to offset that 76,000 plus um to make the decision worthwhile at this time or do we wait for that that feasibility study to to be completed and I think at least it was originally somewhere about the end of February I think was supposed to be the um feasibility study and that may have gotten moved out a little bit I haven't seen the final contract piece to it but you know so that's a question do we do we wait to find out kind of just the same thing on the the hga study that way we were fully informed um to making those decisions um I can't answer that it just popped into my head as as we're having the discussion um um the city manager and myself um so just kind of food for thought um how we move forward with some of those things then if the building stays dormant like it is now will those heat things continue to work or is it just when you open it up you need to replace the I'm going to defer that I I um what I was told talking with the contractor from hum he said without anybody in there he said he thinks it'll be fine um he doesn't they don't know for sure on the real cold days where that how that's going to keep up um there's multiple different systems in there and I can't say I have a perfect understanding of exactly what this Heats and what it doesn't you know the gym has got two units on the top I know that heat that but then there's you know there's boilers and then there's multiple heat pumps that go throughout that building I want to say there's don't quote me on this but I think there's like 18 of these heat pumps throughout that building there's been uh I think one or two of them replaced these are a couple that have been out for the last couple or the we we found out last year at the end of the season we didn't do nothing with it because it didn't we we got kind of some pricing on it we're kind of waiting to see what's happening with the whole thing so these are the latest uh I just got these quotes a couple weeks ago um so to answer the question I I think they need to be put in there if we're going to open it to the public it may get by but I know one of them is a bigger one I think one of them is around $441,000 um so and again I can't speak Prof you know on what exact it does if we were going to move forward with something like this I'd get a better explanation find out exactly what it does but what I was told by the tech that was out is he's like you know we we can get by without um people in there he's like I'm not sure where it'll end up though when it gets real cold so thank you um one question um have you or will you um evaluate your staff and the city staff to see if there's any I'll use the word deficiencies where slight hiring changes might help offset some of these costs for instance let's say um I don't know if you and Randy have your boilers license but the next hire you make would it be smart and would it offset the cost of paying someone a little more if we hired someone with a Bo boiler's license the next person we hire would it offset some of these costs would it make a little sense if we got someone with drywall experience are are there Staffing changes that makes sense in the long run that might help mitigate some of these cost to go from external to internal that are smart um yeah I guess I I me we could I I I don't know how to really answer that question because we haven't really looked you know down that that Avenue and I agree I'm I'm giving you something that I don't expect an instant answer just keep it in the back of your mind to see if to valate to see if stuff makes sense sure do we need an operator's license do you have a special do you need a special for our ours for are they not big enough for a boiler's license I'm sorry do we need a boiler's license for the size we have or do we not I I I don't I don't know I I don't know if you need to be licensed to work on these I I I I don't this is just to operate them I used to have a boiler's license back in the day that's just to be able to operate them you need to have a special license but I didn't think we ours were big enough for that I I don't know all right I guess part of that too would be where our core responsibilities and priorities of what we want to focus on um but I get what you're saying I mean we do that sometimes when we're hiring for public works you know might not be required to be a welder but people who have that ability it it works really well when they do have that agreed and I'm seeing a lot of internal cost on here if if we're looking for a part-time gentleman for Ron does it make sense if we change it to full-time and dedicate half their duties to Interior you know mudding and taping and the other so just throwing something out there to keep in the back of our mind when we're hiring for the next people to see if there's savings and long-term cost benefit to be had uh yes we have done that in the past there there used to be some guys that could take care of that stuff but uh some of them have moved on and some of them have moved into different positions that you know don't yeah it it it I it's definitely something we can look into other questions uh are you looking for guidance for puts and takes in what's on here or you just sharing what's here I'm looking for comments suggestions thoughts um I interrupted you my apologies pardon yeah I interrupted you my apologies oh no go ahead um you brought up a great one the half million dollars for the parking lot I think link to that is also um $80,000 tied into the concession stand over in that area should we just wait for anything can we kick both those projects down another year um until we get till we get plan back I wouldn't put it in the budget I actually agree with that okay and and again it doesn't end things if I'm just if that report were to come on in let's just say March and city council reviews and says yes this is the way we're going and they vote for it you still can come back to city council and approve moving it back in and identifying a funding source for it I just think it's more of a safety net taking it out cuz I I like that I like that logic part to it why would we have something out there that we know is more than likely not what it's going to be yeah well I do see on here that you have it pushed out to 2026 and strictly looking at parks playgrounds paths open space you push that piece out to 2026 and now it's the passive Park is 150 sidewalk along mcnight 60 Gateway Trail access improvements 45 update downtown design manual 60 which is a total of 315,000 there's another I'm missing something no I'm not um so it does look like you push it's pushed out in the CIP for 2026 the 500,000 is is actually funded on a different um piece to it it's on page 23 pavement preservations so mcnight field 500,000 there so I got you yeah we're good so that one would be moved to 2026 um council member um Cole can what's the the other one so I make sure that I get was there something on there for 80k for the um um Press Box and concession stand in the middle of the in the middle of the ball fields over there was there something in there for that yes Press Box concessions 49858 there it is and then the Press Box both of those combined okay yep got it just want to make sure I get the right ones and and to me I agree with that we'll we'll if well I shouldn't say it's not me who agrees U is do I hear city council is that kind of the direction that we'd like to do again those items can be brought back it just takes another um city council action to to bring them back in at a later date and and that Press Box is the one over for the legion ball right isn't that where that isn't that where that's located that Press Box that's correct oh I read it as it's the one that sits above the concession that Sor yeah that's how I read Ito yeah no we've never well we've always just called the other one yeah the Press Box I think is Legion yes is the legion yeah the other one was kind of like oh there you go so Baseball Press Box is the legion one then and mcnight is just the the tower like the like the landing tower for an airport yep above the concession stand correct um other areas for consideration that I guess I would bring up is we haven't seen a plan back from anything Park related um and is Council memb s did the it was over $300,000 that we've got set aside for in 2025 funding um a West End passive Park um guess there was a selck wide along mcnight Boulevard I'd like to chat about that a little bit but um I mean the number one priority coming out of park and wreck was mcnight field if I remember their presentation correct so um can I I again just because we hit the max we look to hit doesn't mean we need to raise our Levy that high to the residents so again I'm just looking for things to potentially pull out that can be brought back um but I think I've I've been very vocal in um wanting to see greater Direction out of the park and wreck from a priority list and where they want to put their funds and you know right now it's in the study which is which is great we're moving in in in the right direction so I I appreciate what what they're doing there but does that take precedent over some of over some of the other things and um I didn't see any money here um we got a westm passive Park fund but was there funding set up here for mcnight to redo anything in the mcnight I think that's what MCN I know that's what parks and W is trying to establish right now with the hga study is what what do we want to focus in on in our last meeting they discussed what the outcomes of some of these um Parks look like nobody in the nobody with Parks and Rec right now have determined yep we're going to do West End passive Park so why it's here I'm not sure I don't know so it's it's trying to they're trying to establish what where are the priorities and what what do we want this year do we want to downtown park what does that what does that look like so I don't know if Riley made recommendations or what what this is but um so again it would just be it would be of my opinion that that gets moved out until their study comes back until they figure out where they want to prioritize their spending till they've had an opportunity to present to council and I think then it can be re re-entered in into the CIP but that's I'm a lame duck so it's up to you guys well the sidewalk along mcnight what's that about yeah uh I so well there is a write up in here and yes they were submitted by staff that represents the part Park and and recommission um but but again again your decision your direction if you would like those items to be pulled back again they certainly can be added any other time and and it makes sense that that there is a complete um presentation on the plan that they're moving forward and there's again a huge component to that is that hga study that's going on so you really don't want to make a decision or or go down a path that you end up undoing I yes in certain ways well and I think the purpose right now I mean council member Cole we're creating discussion just like you had asked we're creating discussion and looking at this further bringing things to surface be quiet when I'm gone can't wait you're not the only one I'm sure um did we have two studies out there one for the downtown Corridor and one for sepa or re redesign of the downtown plan was there two lines on there you got a lot of lines Dan were were there were there two of them out there if I remember reading through I I see a any way we can lump those together in from an RFP standpoint and save a couple of bucks I mean it's budget time I don't know what it would look like so it's keep keep it where it is I guess would be my opinion but when it comes time to look at it can can you bundle those two projects into one certainly absolutely could could do that yeah so when you're talking about the sepa corridor design I'm not sure what that is I think that was in Community Development or I don't know where that came from but I was in here looking at this and there's also in the Street Maintenance there's uh $210,000 for Sea Boulevard between Margaret and Helen for the parking lot yeah I was I was working way down but that was another one so thank you okay yeah so again I can't really speak too much of what is all into that I think that was Community Development planning type thing but I do see it here under Street Maintenance so that probably same kind of deal I mean we keep it in and we don't do it we we we we Levy for it but or do you just pass it out another year until that whole you know sepa Corridor and down Town Redevelopment plan has been Revisited um I think that makes more sense myself we're adding quite a bit of traffic to there too once the apartment's open to see what it looks like with SEL as well very good discussion yeah there's a lot of moving parts and so that just makes sense to you know wait till we have more information so I'm not trying to be I'm just trying to you know blanket yeah wet blanket thanks Brian downtown design manual I just found it that was what it was called and Ron you have to give me a ride in your one T when you get it yes well yeah he does have a personal one too um and I I apologize the details probably in there I just didn't dig deep enough the almost 60k for the Northwood park building are we dropping the ice skating ring and building something different or the ice skating Hut like or is that the are we looking to build something new or are we looking to do maintenance on something that's there can you I am on page 22 of my presentation that I've got open mine's under 21 if you have 251 Pages yeah I I just literally downloaded it sitting here and we still have I looked at looked both sides and the page numbers are still different page that's yeah and I'm on 22 and then and what is Park Building 21 of9 to 58922 just curious what what that is and my apologies for not digging deep enough in here to to recognize it but oh 2513 is what you're doing okay thank you's okay so confirm Randy it's off of wals so that's like their roof maybe or something needs to the building's not worth 60 [Laughter] Grand that's why I was curious if it was it's going to be a small building to rebuild and there's nothing there worth 60 Grand to redo so that was that one jumped out at me okay is that fault true for the housy park building then too because that was just done in right at or during Co same that those old numbers as well so they could get they could potentially slip further out okay according according to the wal report the Norwood Park Building those items that are on there for 2025 include provide ventilation air to the main room and then provide toilet room exhaust so I think what we need to do is we need to establish priori for all of these CU in here it indicates they're not applicable so we I mean as we're looking at this you as we're right now under 2025 there's $923,000 if we're looking at that we probably should have these prioritized I mean with the Northwood park building that could be a priority of you know 10 right now because we don't really know what we're going to do with that building and what is Park what do Park and wck want to do with that location um or what did they what would they like to propose to city council to do [Music] um yeah do we flood that rink up there in the winter do we so do we do we open it up so it's not so that's not even open is there a bathroom in there that we open up no it's it's just the just a little Hut okay yeah back in the day all right I think I've probably carved enough damage into into what's out there that I'll pass one question I have when it comes to that that Legion Field is you know that part of with the Press Box I know they own the lights and things like that do we have any kind of agreement that we have with them as far as maintenance on different other things because as far as as that Press Box were because the Press Box now that we said that's that's Legion that was quite the story that that was built and then given to the city donated if you will and it had a lot of issues that had to be updated before we could even take it over um so I don't think there's any kind of arrangement there it was just kind of given to the city and okay they have nothing to do with that that's our responsibility completely y okay I mean a lot of the stuff is that 30,000 is a part of safety issues I mean they're climbing up is the staircase half broke I mean that's the type of things where we don't know we know what that 30 entails is it something that's safety or is it just it's off of the estimate on what on what they came up with I mean we'd have to you know really dig into mean that that something has been done though was it have we broken it down to safety cosmetic or anything like that with the report as far as what we got the World Report does have the detail and and it'll give a description on each one of their components to it okay and so then we're higher priorities with I think some of the stairs and going up there and just probably some of the structural things to it I don't know the exact detail for it okay I just want to for pushing things I want to make sure it's not safety type of thing anything in your word Jason you see no am I correct in the understanding though that even though it is in the CIP it will come to us before it's just done correct restate that please well even though some of these things are in the CIP and we're talking about moving them later if we left them where they were that doesn't imply that they're automatically funded and and go without our approval they still come before us and but they count towards a levy don't they they're levied for yeah we Levy for it so it does kind of put it in yes and no okay so if we want to get the parking lot done we Ron's gonna yes no Ron's gonna do the parking lot for mcnight we just we're goingon to say it's in there will it come to council to approve it is what am I following you right exactly okay oh that that's easier that wasn't my yes or no I can give a definitive answer to that that's it's the levy component to it yes or no question to it so to answer that things it depends on how the resolution is written when you approve your CIP last year the last two years the way it's been written is that anything that's approved on the CIP is automatically authorized and any contracts agreements and so forth that are executed out out of it as long as it's within the cost that's been approved by city council it's delegated authority to the mayor and the city manager to execute what we did last year is we had a couple of items that we did not want to go that way so we spelled them out separately and required them to come back to city council and part of that shift um out there um the reasoning behind it is many organizations do that that's not a real good one but it's true it was really because we had so many supply chain issues that were happening and and time in in which to get things done so this expedited that process to it and so that's where it was really that focus on that current year to make sure the city council was comfortable with that um and again like last year there was a couple of items that city council wasn't comfortable with so we spelled those out separately um that helps and then the other question that was asked is um does it have a levy impact yes or no the $500,000 for M Knight is being funded through Street Maintenance Street Maintenance Levy is at that 3.5% increase onto it which is already in the the current proposed budget unless you wanted to reduce it so by doing it is it going to have any additional increase the answer would be no however if you were to reduce it or if you kick it out it still doesn't necessarily have a change in that 3.5 that's that's needed because you're going to end up paying for it within the next you know few years any which way it would have an impact if you totally eliminated it and said we're not ever going to do this then we could reduce those costs out of the you know looking out out into the future so so another example would be the 150,000 there talking for that West End passive Park if we don't say whoa it it's it's a done deal signed off the money's there for it correct and the authority to move forward with it is is granted underneath yeah and then it's levied for um for the passive Park I believe there's enough money within the park fund that would be able to handle that so there wouldn't be a necessary of an increase it's when you look at all 10 years worth of stuff if you were to do that you would end up having a I think it was a 055 to6 um change that would have to be because a lot of my recommendations were based on my thought process that if it's on here it gets levied for not that we already had the fund so that was why I was can but I still yeah but I still agree with with that principle because there's studies that are happening at this point that do have an impact on those so I to me I'm going to push them I'm not removing them from the thing because I don't want them I'm going to push them out a year if they need to be brought back forward um again we we get the results or something else we certainly can do that that would require separate city um Council action cool thank you so no I appreciate that I mean that's what I'm looking for yeah dip what we got or unless it's pushed out yeah unless it's significantly pushed out piece to it yeah no when we look at the facilities just because we've never had a complete facility assessment that's the one that's really in in bad shape as of now um yet you've already pointed out and and I'm not going to disagree there's still a lot of work that needs to be done with that you know um there are lines in the back of World Report explaining every single one of of you know that can come up to that total you know so with the the is it Northwood um you know that 30 that $60,000 is identified in there the question needs to come you know do we agree with it or do we not part of um the review that it had with with Ron and and Randy were do we agree with those items that are in there um and so I thought we were in kind of consensus that we're in agreement but maybe we're not and and so that's always again another review that we can do um and and so you know we can put a pause on on the whole facility I certainly by by this discussion here today I certainly will now will not recommend us turning moving forward in increasing our leving on facilities because we may have false information or or we don't agree with that so well and we still catch we got catch-up to do with our facilities funds too so I mean so I get that but um and we're picking on Port Northwood here but I mean we could knock that over for a couple thousand dollars and figure out what park and wreck wanted to do with later as opposed to put funding into it so for me I would pull that one completely out of the CIP but that's that's just of my opinion I'll agree to that I mean even just looking at you Randy would you're like no I mean I agree I'd pull that too and I'm I'm looking at the world um priorities all the explanations and their just how they're laid out and I think that's something that uh for me and I can't speak for the other Council memb as a mayor but if we're looking at priorities and we're going to start taking care of our facilities we definitely need to knock out these number ones um or prioritize our number ones uh and what that will look like you know I'm not I'm not sure um I was reviewing one earlier about lights and egis I have to look at it again um but I mean like under wellb building number one there's replace provide around the gas meter pipe um I mean as some of these is that something we can do okay so I mean that's another piece that as we are looking at it um as council members I look at this as well do we need this contracted out or is this an inflated cost is this something that city employees can do Public Works can do police um I'm just throwing out names by the way so is it something police can do probably not so just saying and I look at it in a different light now that Dan you've explained some of the numbers are in there so whether we go forward with it or not I guess I look at it in a little bit different light than than the lens that I had when I first took a look at it and have taken a look at it for the last four years can I can we provide or can I provide direction to looking at what wal is telling us on these um on their recommendations for City uh and have you guys prioritize what can we put this off for a year can we I mean I just hit up the Northwoods building um assessment and there's one you know here we go provide toilet room exhaust not even using the bathroom I mean so but it's I mean right here under that's housy Park provide ventilation air to the main room by adding air exchangers is that a priority this year or is that something that we can budget for and keep it in um our budget but Sly it's not needed this year I'm just nitpicking now so so so anything that's in the W report that has a priority number one is then included on your Capital Improvement yep I did see that 2025 yep I did see that yeah but is it something that yes we need to do this so um and and Ron just shook his head absolutely we could we could do that well maybe he didn't really Randy did it when we talk to you constantly yeah so so we will um so we we will review all the ones priority ones in the world and come back and either make adjustments and they get shifted one way or the other and and we'll give a summary of how that what that impacted or how how it ended up being in the final sure yep I mean is that fair yeah I mean that's the thing we're just verify that ones are good I mean some of the stuff I do look at as a priority you know I'm in Casey Lake page 241 of 251 and this ISS provide exterior emergency eress lighting I mean yeah we want that it's safety it's so that should be in there but again I Look to You for support on pieces that we should really focus in on as number one priorities and if W says it's a priority but city is saying you know it's not a huge priority right now I trust your guys's judgment um if it isn't so I would like this piece and the facilities piece too um I'd like to relook to revisit that so so so eventually everything has to be looked at but um we'll just focus on the that that impacts the 2025 um for right now um you know if we're going to have enough time to go through everything but at least definitely we can do the priority on in 2025 for you y I just like was said by multiple council members you know we're behind you know we know we're behind so we just got to see where we get our number ones and make sure that we're doing them wisely to with the money we got because we don't have a lot to probably take care of every number one y and then obviously moving forward oh go ahead and I guess I'd like to um ask you and John a question um Tim I would ask you but yeah I can be here next year is there value in because I was misunderstanding some of how this was financed I thought we still to look at it but because we financ and are giving approval in let's say June is it smart to have a line item meeting whether it be Workshop or city council where we go through line at them by line at them so prior to the budget they're more secure about what we actually want in the CIP for the following year I don't necessarily know if we have to have a meeting in regards to it but I think City staff can sit down and say all right I mean we're essentially reassessing the priorities so for priority one right now for 2025 my recommendation is come back with us what does that look like then you put say you're in check off whatever I I exterior I don't know what I'm looking at right now for building um but then reassess okay we can push this one off or this this is must do let's push it off to 2026 but right now we have in the CIP there's I mean for some years there's nothing there so if we can establish you know where it's going to be where are we going to move some of these costs especially on the facilities end um that we have something set aside for the next 10 years every year there's something I think that's great and then have the the worldall assessment plus how we use the the buildings they don't know that right that Northland is not even being used so it kind of just kind of takes what we know and puts it together with what they [Music] say I have one more question sorry your opinion does matter what is the for six more weeks Finance secure service window and the community service secure window looks like about quarter of a million it's a good question I'm not really sure if those estimates are accurate or not no and I'm still working on I had I had a company out probably a month and a half ago to give us estimates on that and I ke I have sent them multiple emails and multiple calls their windows for each one of the counters so for for police window yeah for a number of years staff has um had concerns um if you look at both the community development side and the finance side they're totally wide open um and in an expansive vast area right I mean it's basically like the city um you know unfortunately both sides are dealing um with some touchy subjects um you know from a finance standpoint um you know you're cutting off my power um um and so we do end up getting um a number of very ey rate um individuals um some phone calls are really nasty and sometimes they actually come in um we have something worked out with our our Police Department where we do have on our phones that we can get a hold of them but obviously um especially in more recent times with just some of the the vacancies that they've had they you know their response isn't you know the quickest that we're going to end up getting what's staff has come up with is that they would like to be able to have something that could shorten that that expansiveness something similar to the police departments um yeah but maybe not necessarily to that um part to it yeah I mean we had staff come up and say you know hey you know it doesn't have to go all the way up to the ceiling doesn't need to be bulletproof um it needs to be something that would deter somebody from being able to quickly jump over um you know the counter um they come up with you know hey could we put some sort of like decorative glass block or something in part of the way um the problem is I don't know no is that there's a curvature um you know on both of those counters so can something like that be done but I know Ron's been um working at trying to get estimates for for a while and he he keeps bird dogging the the individual to to kind of get something so we can find so those have been placeholders that are out there but um the city does have a security committee and that keeps continuously being continuously being brought up yeah I'm not opposed to to any way shape or form I just didn't know what it was no I just no I and and I I wasn't looking at that I was just trying to give you more of an a full complete explanation of and I think those numbers uh came from when when that glass got put in in the police department and I think it was kind of guesstimated what that's what that would be for that bulletproof glass how was getting priced out with just regular glass it didn't go all the way to the top it was you know it didn't look so you know bulletproof so he was going to price it out two ways but I I'm yeah I I might have to try to find a different contractor I had to make multiple calls to get a contractor to come out and kind of look at it but um that's what that's for and safety is priority number one and you can't put a can't put a value on a life right um but with that said yes I use but are there other less expensive Alternatives can you put a wall up separating the entire staff from the counter with limited access and and decreasing the counter space available um are there other are there other options that the safety team has discussed um that wouldn't be $300 plus th000 well I'm not too comfortable with these estimates that are in here first of all so so so clearly if you know we this has been just excellent dialogue tonight um that if if we want to pull that out and that's something that comes forward later on to be funded based upon some really good options I'm perfectly comfortable in in doing that these were just basically placeholders I have no idea what it's going to end up costing does that come out of one another one of those buckets or would that be levied for well event one of your buckets let's put it let's put it this way it will reduce the request of increasing love you that much more all right was that is that a good one yes thank you no you are right yes so I'm comfortable in having those pulled back too um you know at this point in time I guess my concern is how we when we pull it back to tell them that we're not pulling it back because we don't believe in it it's just we want to look and find out what you know what I mean to keep that I don't want it to think that oh we're not you know we understand and we're we're hearing what they're saying we just need to look and see what kind of right and and to kind of help with that that's kind of where I came up with the language last year where we ended up um approving it but then requiring it to come back to city council that they actually be done um and that stuff and the reason for is because then you have a public document that did show support from city council city council just wanted to see the final product component to it so I think in that one just because it has been out there for a number of years again another excellent point I think we probably put that one leave it in there as a placeholder but then have that one resolution the other ones will get changed um based upon this conversation today some of them will be totally pulled up but that one because it's a it's it is a safety concern that staff is talking it keeps coming up I don't want it to be yeah we keep asking why are we here why are we doing this because you know that type of thing I just want to give them support on that Morgan didn't come to this meeting for just to sit here so how often are we re-eval are we annually re-evaluating our streets and what needs to be done um I know that with our our plan of our streets we know that you know specific streets are getting done but what if we have another a Street's getting worse than another one are we PRI reprioritizing them Mr Mayor members of the council so yes the answer to that question is we are on an ongoing basis reviewing um boots on the ground onethird of the city so every three years we have a snapshot picture of the entire city for all of the pavement condition within North St Paul so that's both our uh asphalt roads uh and our concrete pavement roads um and alleys as well too are included so um the 2024 data is just coming in right now so I don't have a report to you to supplement the report you've already seen that was completed last year and was also discussed during budget discussions this year with respect to what's the level of service that the council is comfortable with in terms of um the overall Network rating right on a Zer to 100 scale you know as you you may recall that discussion was had um and just a point of clarification I think there there a little bit of misrepresentation on slide four of your slide deck here it says wsb's increase in that that was not a recommendation I think the the council was looking for what type of an investment from an infrastructure standpoint in roads would create an upward Trend right so an overall Network increase rather than what we were seeing was maybe just barely hanging on or a slight decrease in terms of what the analysis shows over several years with the current um projects that were included in last year's CIP what you have in this year's Ci or this year's CIP moving forward is an increase in terms of investment in roadway conditions um and that is expected to show that you know increase but that is a council decision not a WSB decision or recommendation just so we're clear um but yes so uh to answer your question again directly that is happening it's an ongoing re-evaluation and so if we get new information or data with this next set of information that I should be getting in a couple weeks here you know we can have that we can share that with Council so we can see uh the most upto-date information with respect to what is our current existing condition Citywide also streets um where are the priorities and staff Public Works myself we do on an annual basis try to make sure that we're every year moving forward and it gets a little fuzzy out into the future but making sure that we're trying to identify future projects that um for example for a Mill and overlay or pavement preservation effort every other year that we're putting those dollars in the right place and not trying to invest them for example where we also have an underground water main issue we don't want to put dollars on top of that and then have to dig that up in the future right so that kind of evaluation does happen year over year and and usually after the budget discussions are had and the budget is approved you know we're starting not too long after that with Dan in the spring looking at the next iteration right using the most accurate information that we've got based on those annual evaluations is that before winter or after winter might be during might be during winter in Minnesota before the construction year starts yeah for sure after plowing before well and we and we also do um get the guys that actually go out there and fill each one of these potholes we get them guys involved with our pavement preservation are involved with the meetings to get their views because they walk every foot of the roads too so we do put a lot of effort into and a lot of agonizing and there's a lot of arguments internally which roads uh you know are you know people are the people want to see done so we take the complaints that we get from residents we consider that um and like Morgan said what's under the road and what the guys have seen actually walk in every you know inch of the road the most difficult to maintain right from filling potholes is there can we reduce the the amount of expenditure that Public Works has from a filling pot holes standpoint by making Mak sure that we time some of these pavement preservation projects properly any other questions for Morgan or we've had him sitting there a long time keep drawing just I was just I was just about I thank you Council memb thank you is he Pizza worthy yeah get your pizza work to fall asleep so but no I do I do want to say what Morgan stated on that slide on before they weren't the ones making an increase that's just the verbiage that I used because I actually was the one who at requested give us how do we get that rating to come up with and they gave us estimates but that's I meant it as far as it was an increase from the prior iteration of what we had seen um but I think it's the path that we need to move forward um and I think city council was is very supportive of that so our basic it's part of our basic what we need to do thank you for taking accountability for that yeah no no go after them that's right any other questions any other thoughts I think this has been seriously this is one of the better dialogues that we've had on on things and gave a lot of good insight for staff to look at we've got our homework um to do what we'll we'll do that and we'll get you more information um next uh city council uh meeting in the workshop we'll kind of be talking about some of the different Revenue options kind of give you a lot of information um and then um it may actually going to attach a report for uh liquor stores that I think was done in 2021 by the state Auditors shows who has it how they did on their operations and so forth just to kind of give kind of a breath of of what's out there what's been done how how are they operating um and you know and one thing you're going to see and if you were to look at any other city is that their Enterprise funds whether it's electric whether it's water whether it's Wastewater they all transfer to the general funds um you know and so that's nothing that we haven't you know that we've been doing uh we have been doing um so it's nothing new and we're not the only city in the world that does that because you'll see it continuously and that's the reason for some of these other Enterprise operations whether it's a a liquor store or potentially in in a cannabis which there are what about our local smoke shops what about well I mean you said you were going to tap into some of the research regarding the liquor stores can we do a little bit on the smoke shops as well I mean for Revenue purposes exercising as far as us operating a no no not that never mind completely opposite of what I was not following the path that you were on you were on the yellow brick road and I was on the red brick road over here we'll discuss that another time okay we'll discuss that another time uh so we'll be bringing some of those options um and just for discussion and really staff is seeking Direction and then kind of we'll wrap up that there's that one slide what kind of options where do we really want to Target um looking at for for our Levy do we want to um you know make some of those it's going to be a tougher decision because we may not have all of that facility information um then definitely I my recommendation was we wouldn't jump all the way up to the increase I think we we all are in agreement that there's a need but I I wouldn't go all the way to the extent that um that we're showing on to there um but anyways um that'll be coming up uh next week I thank you very much for the dialogue I mean it was very oh no sorry so close so close all right so back to the scorecard yeah back I'm on page 10 of 245 so I don't know what it is in everybody's deck it's Bas it's the 2025 budget update yep and this goes back to um the original question on is it in or is it out does it cost us doesn't it cost us where is it um so I go back and I look um almost down to the bottom of the page highlighted in blue it says additional add additional Levy of $2,870 for Park and for buildings correct so that's the that's the building portion is all the W pieces or is this is Parks only looking for 3500 bucks or are these the buildings within the park we talked about a lot of numbers MH so um it's one what's being funded from from Parks so there's building there's Maintenance building components for the parks they're included in the buildings okay and they're funded out of facilities um the other Park components um because really because really the the city is responsible for the maintenance of Park facilities um and so that's what it comes out of a different funding s Source versus the the park fund so what's shown in the capital Improvement plan to be able to afford that all 10 years and what the total costs are you would have to increase now the levy $3,500 for parks in each and every year for the next 10 years for build to afford what's in the facility improvements you would have to raise a levy 117,000 this year and7 in addition each and every year for the next 10 years so to answer to get back to where you when you push something out it doesn't eliminate that and doesn't reduce this need if it's an item that we determined really isn't necessary would never do it then that would lower the overall cost and it will drop this number down something perfect thank you that was the explanation that I was looking for CU um I looked at it as you know 1.65% of Levy that we could not charge so thank you that's why that's why I answer it yes no and that's why I wanted to Circle back because it's new learning thank you okay now I'm done okay thank you sir all right nothing El thanks for everybody for the information and all the hard work that everybody's been doing on this too so I'm glad we had some good dialogue and we're able to keep crunching and getting closer to the where we need to be is there anything else if not I will ask for adjournment some moved so moved council member second second council member Norby all those in favor say I I we will see you on November 19th which is